Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 2

[Jeana (DP)]

Please continue.

[scandi]

Good Morning,

Hi Shazza, No problem, and I think we see things pretty myuch eye to eye. ;}

I did a lot of reading last night on the Google site devoted to Madeline and it really was an interesting read. Our Floh may be Mod there. I think it is always good to assimilate as many ideas as possible. I brought that interesting post from their theories thread yesterday, and then read their psychic thread which was very down to earth I thought.

What I have learned is there is a general feeling Madeline is still alive from many of these posters, that she is in a duress situation by some predator but will be found.

Evidently the feeling is that the UK top notch investigative team on the job want to see every photo taken in the area for a couple of weeks before she was taken, as the McCann family was near the tail end of their vacation and had been there about 2 weekis. From that is where they will spot someone who will pop up on their radar as the person that most llikely took her. They are also very interested in speaking with a 50 year old man who lives in Spain and is a cousin to RM!

They think this person watched the McCann's enough to know their habits of coming and going, which even we have learned were predictable even as they are now, grabbed her quickly. There was no evidence of breakin or struggle from what these people have learned from LE. That is why these photos are so very important to the investigation right now.

I read very little where there is suspicion towards the family which surprised me. LE now thinks she was taken by a single sexual predator from what I can tell, and that she is most likely dead. Once they have a photo of this person, which these people are quite sure will surface from all the scanned photos the police are getting now, they will be able to track this person to catch him. Evidently their capabilities are very strong in this area.

I did also learn there was a small boy taken several months ago from a town not far from where Madeline disappeared, and some wonder if they are connected. Someone here had asked that question.

So I came away with a really positive feeling for Madeline, hoping she is still with us and of course know we will all be praying for the same thing.

Scandi

[Utopia]

Hi Scandi - you didn't say, was there any mention of the fate of the little boy? Is he still missing?

[CaliKid]

I have lurked here reading all the posts, so forgive me if I say something that's already been said.

It appears as if LE in Europe operate very differently than here in the USA. For instance, weren't there also some other young girls kidnapped from the same area recently? If so, why weren't these abductions publicized (aside from the resorts' need to keep them quiet so they wouldn't hinder tourism) so the McCanns knew it wasn't safe to leave the children alone? Why did it take so long for her disappearance to become major news?

[2sisters]

I have not been following this case b/c I just have been in a spot where I can' bear to think of a missing baby right now. I did read her story in Pople at the grocery store though and can not belive that this family left 3 kids alone so they could go out to eat. Someone at their vacation spot obviosly was watching and their neglegence gave them the prime opportunity. I am sure they were not intentionally negelegent, but naive about their children's saftey. Creeps and weirdos are everywhere, don't be fooled into thinking you are safe.

[Ang50]

I have not been following this case b/c I just have been in a spot where I can' bear to think of a missing baby right now. I did read her story in Pople at the grocery store though and can not belive that this family left 3 kids alone so they could go out to eat. Someone at their vacation spot obviosly was watching and their neglegence gave them the prime opportunity. I am sure they were not intentionally negelegent, but naive about their children's saftey. Creeps and weirdos are everywhere, don't be fooled into thinking you are safe.

I agree with you - but I would be interested to know more about the specific set up. The restaurant or whatever it was was 100 yards away. That's a football field. Was it an open area or not? Could they see their villa?

Their judgment doesn't really matter - they're paying too heavy a price for a lapse (if it was a lapse).

[2sisters]

I totally agree Ang50, I hate that I am judging them at all on this b/c I can not imagine anything worse than having a child kidnapped or killed. They don't deserve this at all.

[scandi]

Hi Utopia, The poster didn't give any other info about the boy, but from the way it was stated I assume he hasn't been found. I don't know.

Hi CaliKid, I also read a post where it was stated several young girls had gone missing from the same area lately, but this poster of course gave no link. The poster was called on this by another, saying a statement like this needs a link, and they are waiting now for it. I believe it was on the general discussion thread of the Google link I gave last night for the sight devoted to Madeline.

I did just run across this link though that I don't think we have here which opened up my eyes wide. This is a blogger on scene named Paulo and he seems to be well respected in digging up the daily news on the case:

http://gazetadigitalarquivo.blogspot.com/2007/05/em-directo-da-praia-da-luz-algarve-news.html
Snippet
" . . . (07:00 pm, May 18 2007) – Took me longer than I thought to post again, since this morning. I’ll start with a very serious subject: I saw a comment at CrimeBlog.US , from “debk”, who wrote “I haven’t yet found any reliable written Portuguese (or English) source about Barra da Costa’s comment that dogs found traces of Madeleine at Murat’s house… or anywhere else”. I quoted Mr Barra da Costa yesterday, in a breaking news bulletin (“A police dog found traces of Madeleine McCann at Murat's house”) posted at Gazeta Digital.


Let me make one thing very clear: I watched the news and heard the words of Mr. Barra da Costa. I wasn’t the only witness of this interview. Around 1, 2 million Portuguese viewers (average number of viewers of “Telejornal”, main news of RTP) heard Mr. Barra da Costa saying that “a police dog found traces of the missing girl near the swimming pool of Robert Murat’s house”.
I have a link to RTP page, where they have the full video of main news (“Telejornal”). This afternoon, I talked with Mr. Barra da Costa, but he just told me that he had no comments about nothing for any journalist, as he says he was misquoted on a previous interview, also in TV. In that interview, he said that “there is information that the (McCann) couple was an adept of ‘swing’, meaning sexual relations among couples”.


It seems that I was the only one who quoted the remark of Mr. Barra da Costa about the dog finding traces of Madeleine at Murat’s house. Mr. Barra da Costa is a former CID inspector, criminologist and academic, and a very regular presence at TV stations, to comment on crime cases. Why nobody quoted him on this subject? I don’t know. But if somebody has any doubt about the accuracy of my quote, just take a look at “Telejornal”, in the RTP page (if they understand Portuguese). . . ."


Some interesting things here going back a few days! Who knows if they are really true, but possible for sure!
Scandi

[scandi]

Hi Scandi - you didn't say, was there any mention of the fate of the little boy? Is he still missing?

Hi Utopia, I found you a link, and think he was taken from a Canary Island which is off the coast of Portugal or Spain:

http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_10086.shtml
Scandi

[Utopia]

Thanks Scandi. My geography of that part of the world is not very good so I have no idea how far Grand Canary Island is from the Algarve region of Portugal. I am currently studying in the UK and one of my fellow school mates is from Portugal and is currently there visiting. He is expected back within the next week so I'll make be sure to grill him when he returns.

I found a couple interesting links from different perspectives, one Portuguese, one English (I used tinyurl on the UK link as it was long and I didn't want to blow the margins)

http://www.ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=37797

http://tinyurl.com/2vlsmk

Utopia

[Ang50]

I totally agree Ang50, I hate that I am judging them at all on this b/c I can not imagine anything worse than having a child kidnapped or killed. They don't deserve this at all.

But I agree - if I didn't know a hotel risk manager personally, I would probably assume hotels/resorts/cruises are safer than they really are. These are people who probably wouldn't leave their children in the house while they visited the neighbors, but did make this decision.

And I admit that my first thought was - how could you? But 100 yards away... and checking every 1/2 hour... I can understand it. 20 yards or 50 - we'd think nothing of it. 100 yards would be an easy visual sightline.

No one deserves this, but I will learn my lesson from them rather than having to learn it the hard way, hopefully.

[Furious]

I've skimmed this thread and obviously read and hear the news on this and I finally had to jump in to express my disgust with these parents. I have a 10 year old son and 3 year old daughter, and travel extensively, and I would NEVER leave them alone while my wife and I went out for dinner & drinks.....NEVER. And my son is TEN!!!

I regret the situation they've found themselves in but they have no one to blame but themselves. This is tragic in so many ways but fiirst and foremost is their ignorance and denial that they had anything to do with this? very sad indeed. They should be charged with negligence. How stupid do you have to be to leave your kids alone in a strange hotel/villa whatever in a strange country while you go "out and party"....which is what they really did right. They shlept (sp?) their kids off, without a proper care-giver no less, and went out for wine...to be alone....well they got their wish. How tragic....and they are doctors? I guess phd degrees come out of Cracker Jack boxes in the UK cause DR's are suppose to be smart??? These two certainly are NOT.

Here in Toronto a woman was charged and CONVICTED of child negligence for leaving her 3 year old in an apartment while she went out clubbing....how is this any different? IT'S NOT. They should be charged.....have a shrink look into their pea-brains. If this poor beautiful girl is lost to them it is THEIR fault - end of story!!!

[Jdee]

I thought this forum was for web sleuthing to share news articles and ideas and anything to help solve a crime or in this case find a missing child. I find this thread aimed more at debate about the parents and what they should have done, or not done. Being new here is it not possible to divide the thread into two where those that want to discuss and debate the parents and their error and those that want to discuss and share articles about Madeleine? Please take no offense here to my post. Just looking for Madeleine news and ideas. Though the debate is interesting I don't find it helpful.

[Furious]

I thought I was "sleuthing" by pointing out that the parents are to blame and that THEY should be the ones charged. If they never left their kids alone she/they 99.99% would be fine right......negligence lies with the parents and not some unknown abductor.

OK, here's a senario.....what if poor Madeleine woke up scared, no one was there to comfort her...she opened the front door and left the villa and wandered around LOOKING for her parents who were no where to be found? No abductor at all. She wandered around lost in a foreign city and possibly fell into some water, a hole, into the hand of a villian...God only knows. Point being, once again, is that it always comes back to the root of the problem and that is the fact that they shouldn't have been left alone to begin with. I say finger print the main door knob and look for her prints, which I'm sure they have. My three year old can easily open and close the washroom doors in our house, her bedroom door etc etc......so could Madeleine I'm sure. So what if this "abductor" stuff is just a big smoke screen to defer attention away from the TRUE criminals....the stupid parents?

I know a lot of you come here and this tugs on your heart strings....you're addicted to this story...to the search....you put yourselves in the position of these parents and feel their dread...."what if it was YOUR child". However, I'm willing wager that 99.99% of you would never have left those kids alone to begin with. And if your in the 0.001% that thinks its OK to leave your kids alone while you galavant around you shouldn't be surprised if your poor children go missing one day as these predators prey on the ignorant parents like Medelines......the fools.....the victims!!!

[Shazza]

I thought I was "sleuthing" by pointing out that the parents are to blame and that THEY should be the ones charged. If they never left their kids alone she/they 99.99% would be fine right......negligence lies with the parents and not some unknown abductor.

OK, here's a senario.....what if poor Madeleine woke up scared, no one was there to comfort her...she opened the front door and left the villa and wandered around LOOKING for her parents who were no where to be found? No abductor at all. She wandered around lost in a foreign city and possibly fell into some water, a hole, into the hand of a villian...God only knows. Point being, once again, is that it always comes back to the root of the problem and that is the fact that they shouldn't have been left alone to begin with. I say finger print the main door knob and look for her prints, which I'm sure they have. My three year old can easily open and close the washroom doors in our house, her bedroom door etc etc......so could Madeleine I'm sure. So what if this "abductor" stuff is just a big smoke screen to defer attention away from the TRUE criminals....the stupid parents?

I know a lot of you come here and this tugs on your heart strings....you're addicted to this story...to the search....you put yourselves in the position of these parents and feel their dread...."what if it was YOUR child". However, I'm willing wager that 99.99% of you would never have left those kids alone to begin with. And if your in the 0.001% that thinks its OK to leave your kids alone while you galavant around you shouldn't be surprised if your poor children go missing one day as these predators prey on the ignorant parents like Medelines......the fools.....the victims!!!
I totally agree with everything you have said, I too have been told I am parent bashing, put blame where the blame is and it is the parents fault that this has been allowed to happen, they should be charged with child neglect.

[Olivia77]

Sewing Deb, just wanted to thank you for the link you provided me earlier. It gave me a new perspective.

While I'm not sure if there's enough interest for this to have its own forum, I am bummed there isn't a running media link. I just started a new job and am way behind on reading the latest...

[mjak]

I thought this forum was for web sleuthing to share news articles and ideas and anything to help solve a crime or in this case find a missing child. I find this thread aimed more at debate about the parents and what they should have done, or not done. Being new here is it not possible to divide the thread into two where those that want to discuss and debate the parents and their error and those that want to discuss and share articles about Madeleine? Please take no offense here to my post. Just looking for Madeleine news and ideas. Though the debate is interesting I don't find it helpful.

I do not think you can effectivly share ideas about Madeleine without discussion of the parents actions when she dissapeared. It is not about passing judgment or blame but about recognizing that their behavior that night was questionable and seeminly out of character and therefore until proven otherwise they do need to be considered as possibly suspects. This is not to say they are guilty only that there is reason to not exclude them as having involvment in Madeleines disappearance.

mjak

[mjak]

I thought I was "sleuthing" by pointing out that the parents are to blame and that THEY should be the ones charged. If they never left their kids alone she/they 99.99% would be fine right......negligence lies with the parents and not some unknown abductor.

OK, here's a senario.....what if poor Madeleine woke up scared, no one was there to comfort her...she opened the front door and left the villa and wandered around LOOKING for her parents who were no where to be found? No abductor at all. She wandered around lost in a foreign city and possibly fell into some water, a hole, into the hand of a villian...God only knows. Point being, once again, is that it always comes back to the root of the problem and that is the fact that they shouldn't have been left alone to begin with. I say finger print the main door knob and look for her prints, which I'm sure they have. My three year old can easily open and close the washroom doors in our house, her bedroom door etc etc......so could Madeleine I'm sure. So what if this "abductor" stuff is just a big smoke screen to defer attention away from the TRUE criminals....the stupid parents?

I know a lot of you come here and this tugs on your heart strings....you're addicted to this story...to the search....you put yourselves in the position of these parents and feel their dread...."what if it was YOUR child". However, I'm willing wager that 99.99% of you would never have left those kids alone to begin with. And if your in the 0.001% that thinks its OK to leave your kids alone while you galavant around you shouldn't be surprised if your poor children go missing one day as these predators prey on the ignorant parents like Medelines......the fools.....the victims!!!

This is an excellent point. There is only conjecture that she was abducted. She was left unsupervised so therefore what happened to her could be as you described it. Her parents are paying a horrible price for their horrific judgement: however, that price is miniscule compared to the life of a child. It is Madeline who is likley paying the worst price of all.

mjak

[scandi]

I do not think you can effectivly share ideas about Madeleine without discussion of the parents actions when she dissapeared. It is not about passing judgment or blame but about recognizing that their behavior that night was questionable and seeminly out of character and therefore until proven otherwise they do need to be considered as possibly suspects. This is not to say they are guilty only that there is reason to not exclude them as having involvment in Madeleines disappearance.

mjak

Interesting thought Mjak! And therin lies the rub in taking a look at their behavior. Their error in judgement is grevious, but on top of that they or their spokespeople have said things that don't jive.

The one thing that comes to mind is I read {God knows where! ;} is a member of the family said when police entered the room the front door was laid open {manner of speach} and the shutter and window were open, one of them having been jimmied, I think the window.

I also read that LE stated on a TV program that there was no evidence of either a struggle or of anyone having broken in to the unit. What a difference.

Then there is the family or spokesperson saying hubby checked them at 9:30pm and the mom at 10 when Madeline was noticed missing. The restaurant stated the parents did not leave the restaurant to check on them, and I am assuming that means the check at 9:30.

Two disparities without even digging. That is why I agree the parents should be looked at, as well as the fact that they are the last ones to supposedly see her alive.

Are there any other disparities that come to mind? Scandi

[sleuthin4fun]

I thought I was "sleuthing" by pointing out that the parents are to blame and that THEY should be the ones charged. If they never left their kids alone she/they 99.99% would be fine right......negligence lies with the parents and not some unknown abductor.

OK, here's a senario.....what if poor Madeleine woke up scared, no one was there to comfort her...she opened the front door and left the villa and wandered around LOOKING for her parents who were no where to be found? No abductor at all. She wandered around lost in a foreign city and possibly fell into some water, a hole, into the hand of a villian...God only knows. Point being, once again, is that it always comes back to the root of the problem and that is the fact that they shouldn't have been left alone to begin with. I say finger print the main door knob and look for her prints, which I'm sure they have. My three year old can easily open and close the washroom doors in our house, her bedroom door etc etc......so could Madeleine I'm sure. So what if this "abductor" stuff is just a big smoke screen to defer attention away from the TRUE criminals....the stupid parents?

I know a lot of you come here and this tugs on your heart strings....you're addicted to this story...to the search....you put yourselves in the position of these parents and feel their dread...."what if it was YOUR child". However, I'm willing wager that 99.99% of you would never have left those kids alone to begin with. And if your in the 0.001% that thinks its OK to leave your kids alone while you galavant around you shouldn't be surprised if your poor children go missing one day as these predators prey on the ignorant parents like Medelines......the fools.....the victims!!!



Furious,i am with you. I have wondered myself, why everyone is convinced that she was abducted. Yes she is missing but, how would we know for sure that she was abducted? We can't possibly know that for sure because she was left alone with two younger children unsupervised. That fact being stated. Why is everyone so sure that she was abducted? Because her parent say so? I sure hope that people are not so focused on one theory that they "can't see the forest for the trees". I am not accusing her parents of harming her but, it would not be the first time that has happened. I too have thought about the possibility that Maddie woke up and left the room on her own to look for her parents and possibly met with foul play at that point or, was injured or has possibly drowned. The whole situation no matter what has happened is so tragic for this little girl.

[Spazkat9696]

Has anone read anywhere if the twins saw/heard anything. I thought I read they were all in the same bed why take her and not one of the others? I too am curious about all the changing stories. I wonder how/if the parents were questioned. Maybe they are not as quick to suspect family as we are here.

[CarpeDiem]

I read this morning that the twins are believed to have stayed asleep the entire time, as they also say Maddie was too. Among other indicators, she didn't grab her favorite stuffed doll.

[CarpeDiem]

Furious,i am with you. I have wondered myself, why everyone is convinced that she was abducted. Yes she is missing but, how would we know for sure that she was abducted? We can't possibly know that for sure because she was left alone with two younger children unsupervised. That fact being stated. Why is everyone so sure that she was abducted? Because her parent say so? I sure hope that people are not so focused on one theory that they "can't see the forest for the trees". I am not accusing her parents of harming her but, it would not be the first time that has happened. I too have thought about the possibility that Maddie woke up and left the room on her own to look for her parents and possibly met with foul play at that point or, was injured or has possibly drowned. The whole situation no matter what has happened is so tragic for this little girl.

They must believe, as do I, that the parents would have had too limited of an availability to dispose of her body, they would have found her by now, if not other forensic evidence. If they were involved, BIG IF, I'd be checking that route the Mom ran the other day. Also, the timeline is much longer than we think now IF they were involved. Perhaps it should start the last time an adult besides the two of them saw Maddie.

[scandi]

Now I really found an interesting site! It is a forum, but there are links and translations and new things I hadn't heard, lol Always exciting:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=164&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=6120

LE returns to Ocean Club to reconstruct scene
http://expresso.clix.pt/Dossies/Interior.aspx?content_id=394355&name=Desaparecimento%20de%20Madeleine%20McCann
Snippet
"Three inspectores of the Judiciary Policy had covered, during the afternoon of this tuesday, some zones in the interior of the Ocean Club, the tourist enterprise of where disappeared, it has 18 days, the English child, Madeleine McCann. According to Express it could observe, the attentions of the inspectores had centered in the part of the front of the apartment of the McCann and in a way since the exit of this until the one interior zone of the Ocean Club. The inspectores had made some times the gone passage of and come back. Later they had taken as a way that leads until the backs of the house of the mother of Robert Murat, the only one arguido of the process. This behavior of the inspectores accuses that the inquiry not yet will have clarified the reconstitution well on what will have been transferred in the night where Madeleine disappeared. The investigators will be to test in the land some hypotheses, comparing passages and the time that delays to cover them, as well as the some possible exits for where the child will be able to have been led. By the way, the geography of the zone where he is situated the Ocean Club, in the Village of the Light, in Lakes, allows some escapes, for small ways inside of the tourist enterprise. Some of them meet protected by vegetation. . . . . ."

[CarpeDiem]

Now I really found an interesting site! It is a forum, but there are links and translations and new things I hadn't heard, lol Always exciting:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=164&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=6120

http://expresso.clix.pt/Dossies/Interior.aspx?content_id=394355&name=Desaparecimento%20de%20Madeleine%20McCann


Good link, quite interesting!

[scandi]

On page 411 of thesame main link of the post above is this:


http://www.policiajudiciaria.pt/htm/Ingles/missing_person/madeleine.htm

[Spazkat9696]

Now I really found an interesting site! It is a forum, but there are links and translations and new things I hadn't heard, lol Always exciting:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=164&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=6120

LE returns to Ocean Club to reconstruct scene
http://expresso.clix.pt/Dossies/Interior.aspx?content_id=394355&name=Desaparecimento%20de%20Madeleine%20McCann
Snippet
"Three inspectores of the Judiciary Policy had covered, during the afternoon of this tuesday, some zones in the interior of the Ocean Club, the tourist enterprise of where disappeared, it has 18 days, the English child, Madeleine McCann. According to Express it could observe, the attentions of the inspectores had centered in the part of the front of the apartment of the McCann and in a way since the exit of this until the one interior zone of the Ocean Club. The inspectores had made some times the gone passage of and come back. Later they had taken as a way that leads until the backs of the house of the mother of Robert Murat, the only one arguido of the process. This behavior of the inspectores accuses that the inquiry not yet will have clarified the reconstitution well on what will have been transferred in the night where Madeleine disappeared. The investigators will be to test in the land some hypotheses, comparing passages and the time that delays to cover them, as well as the some possible exits for where the child will be able to have been led. By the way, the geography of the zone where he is situated the Ocean Club, in the Village of the Light, in Lakes, allows some escapes, for small ways inside of the tourist enterprise. Some of them meet protected by vegetation. . . . . ."

Yes I had not heard she was crying out for her dad 2 nights before she went missing, and they had to go back to their villa. If this is true you would think they would have had doubts about leaving her. I wonder if they gave the kids something to make them sleep, it could be the reason the twins did not wake up when their sister went missing.

[scandi]

Sorry, I screwed up and lost WS lololol

Anywy, this document which must have been put out by the local police as a missing person report has some interesting things in it.

It says "about 22H40" which this group feels is the approx time she was noticed missing which would have been the time of discovery by the mother. That is 10:40pm, later than we had heard before.

LE logged the call in their bood at 23H50, or 10 minutes till midnight!

The family said they went to the Tapas Bar at 8pm. Gerry went to check on her at 2100 hours or 9pm acc to this and the mom went at 2200 hours or 10pm. Why the disparity of 40 min.

The mother came back into the Tapas club screaming "They've taken her", and there are a couple of posts here where people read the parents thought they were being watched. Yea, and they left their kids alone! Something is wrong with the scenrio.

If the mom came in hysterical like that she wouldn't have waited 40 min to lollygag in the apt, right? Oh, BTW, it is an apt they are staying in and not a Hotel room.

And then they point out the mngmt of the Tapas said from the time they got there { at 8pm } until the mom went to check on the kids { at 10pm or thereabouts} neither left the restaurant, which widens that gap of time for the window of opportunity to grab her - from 8 to 10pm.


The iother interesting thing I discovered is they showed what she was wearing and it is a pink pajama outfit. The lady who saw Madeline at a gas station said she was wearing a blue pajama outfit. Interesting on the police report it says 'similar', and did not give the actual color she was wearing to put in the report. Am I getting too finiky? lololol

I think all of this is startling info! SCandi

[mjak]

Sorry, I screwed up and lost WS lololol

Anywy, this document which must have been put out by the local police as a missing person report has some interesting things in it.

It says "about 22H40" which this group feels is the approx time she was noticed missing which would have been the time of discovery by the mother. That is 10:40pm, later than we had heard before.

LE logged the call in their bood at 23H50, or 10 minutes till midnight!

The family said they went to the Tapas Bar at 8pm. Gerry went to check on her at 2100 hours or 9pm acc to this and the mom went at 2200 hours or 10pm. Why the disparity of 40 min.

The mother came back into the Tapas club screaming "They've taken her", and there are a couple of posts here where people read the parents thought they were being watched. Yea, and they left their kids alone! Something is wrong with the scenrio.

If the mom came in hysterical like that she wouldn't have waited 40 min to lollygag in the apt, right? Oh, BTW, it is an apt they are staying in and not a Hotel room.

And then they point out the mngmt of the Tapas said from the time they got there { at 8pm } until the mom went to check on the kids { at 10pm or thereabouts} neither left the restaurant, which widens that gap of time for the window of opportunity to grab her - from 8 to 10pm.


The iother interesting thing I discovered is they showed what she was wearing and it is a pink pajama outfit. The lady who saw Madeline at a gas station said she was wearing a blue pajama outfit. Interesting on the police report it says 'similar', and did not give the actual color she was wearing to put in the report. Am I getting too finiky? lololol

I think all of this is startling info! SCandi

Scandi, I too am finding inconsistancies from what I have read. There is a strange complete lack of emphasis by LE on the parents. I am coming to the conclusion either LE had more info behind the scenes that leds them convinces them the parents are not involved or LE in portugal does not recognize the possibility the parents could be involved.

mjak

[scandi]

I got this off of page 412 of the same thread and it tells what Madeline has wrong with her eye:

Coloboma
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_iris_coloboma


I had no idea it was a condition she had, and it could be this is the only problem she has. It is just that this problem often shows up with other problems that are described here.

The only other thing I read about her on the MP Report is she has a dark spot on her leg. Scandi

[CarpeDiem]

If it's an apartment, like a timeshare, someone else would have keys, access.

[scandi]

Scandi, I too am finding inconsistancies from what I have read. There is a strange complete lack of emphasis by LE on the parents. I am coming to the conclusion either LE had more info behind the scenes that leds them convinces them the parents are not involved or LE in portugal does not recognize the possibility the parents could be involved.

mjak

Could it be that the local LE is intimidated by the wealthy vacationers? Both physicians?

I don't think the UK investigators will be intimidated in any way by them however. lol They are some of the best in the world from what history shows us.

Now it could be the LE recreation of the scene that took place there last night {the 22nd Port time} could be dealing with some inconsistencies they have discovered in what their guys haf=ve learned and what the family has stated. I was fascinated to learn in this development of Ocean Club RM's mothers house backs up to a road very close to where the McCann apt is. And that there are several escape routes out of that development, several of which are through areas sheltered by trees!

I also am amazed this site I found has so much info that is not out therre! The MP Report alone was a boon to find. :) Scandi

[Furious]

Believe me when I say I really hate the fact that I even need to bash these parents but what they did was stupid. Now, back to the idea that she left the room of her own accord: If the parents truly did check in every half hour or whatever then Madeleine may have been told, "we're just down the road...not far away eating....or something to those regards" so isn't it VERY possible that she woke up and went to look for them? I think it is very possible. Besides the idea that she got hurt after wandering away, here is another senario. Now say some stranger, no ill will intended, found a wandering 3 year old in the streets at night and spoke no english....lets say this person (male or female) did a dumb thing, but not a SICK twisted thing, and took the child home to wait till the morning to bring her to the police station. However, by the time the morning rolled around the whole world spun upside down and FOUL PLAY was cried and the media circus had begun. Now this stranger could think, "if I turn her in I might be charged, my life ruined". I'm just painting alternate concepts here folks......the law is based on "reasonable doubt" right. So we now have FOUR very plausible possibilities.

1) the parents were involved
2) she was abducted
3) wandered away and got hurt - drowned, fell in some ditch, a well etc
4) wandered away, was found...now the person(s) who found her are afraid due to the allegations that she was abducted

There you go folks.......my brian in action. At the end of the day, once again, it all comes back to the parents and I hope they are charged. This is not much different then leaving a child in the car on a hot day - it's stupid. I pray for this little girl.....she was so sweet. I hate this world sometimes!!!

[scandi]

If it's an apartment, like a timeshare, someone else would have keys, access.

Hi Carpe, That was a comment by a poster, but the way it was stated, in CAPS that it was an apt and not a hotel room leads me to know what they're talking about.


That is very interesting what you say. The scene was compromised they said, with family and friends, so fingerprints were not a good thing to catch at the scene.

The grandma I think it was, made a comment I read elsewhere today saying the family thinks the perp came in through the window, picked up a sleeping Madeline who they don't even think realized she was being picked up by a kidnapper, and exited out the front or maybe only door.

Makes me wonder, since this came from family, if it wasn't an inadvertant slip of the tongue if these parents were in the habit of giving the children a little something to make them sleep before they went out for the evening! Just thinkin'.

[scandi]

Yes I had not heard she was crying out for her dad 2 nights before she went missing, and they had to go back to their villa. If this is true you would think they would have had doubts about leaving her. I wonder if they gave the kids something to make them sleep, it could be the reason the twins did not wake up when their sister went missing.
I just read your post Spazka, and I just posted I am thinking the kids were maybe given something to make them sleep while the parents were gone.

Could that be why the parents weren't worried about leaving them alone? If they medicated them, heck, they wouldn't wake up till morning probably!~

ETA: BTW, when we first learned about this I read that the other parents in their party left their kids too. I know I posted this, but there were 8 or 9+ children in the group and Madeline was the oldest.

[SeriouslySearching]

I cannot imagine anyone finding a child wandering at night and not immediately finding a police officer or other person in authority to help locate the child's parents...so #4 makes no logical sense to me. I think we can rule that one out completely.

I don't think the parents are involved in her disappearance because of their detailed schedules and their abilis when she went missing. They were seen before, during, and after she vanished. So I think we can also rule this out. The police are obviously satisfied with their alibis, too.

If the child wandered away, the window wouldn't have shown signs of someone breaking into the room. She wasn't strong enough to have 'jimmied' the window open. So they have ruled this out with good reason.

Leaving us with an abduction...which is what they are concentrating their efforts on and is where we should concentrate OUR efforts! At the end of this horrid tale, the parents will be dealt with accordingly...but for now...they don't know any more than we do so let's move on.

I believe the police are following every lead possible at the moment and they have made some strides in finding Maddy...telling me they are on the right track. To be helpful to Maddy in our 'think tank' here...we need to start looking at what we already know from reports and go from there.

Is she still in the country? Was she sold or given to someone for a blackmarket adoption? Could she be with a sex predator? What does their suspect actually know and can we find out more about him prior to this? These are questions we can start debating and trying to find answers to. Let's get back to finding Madeleine and stop with the parents at this point. They are not the issue.

Let's get this back on track!

[Spazkat9696]

I don't get it I won't leave my son alone even to just check the mail. When he was born my hubby was in Iraq I would put him in one of those things you strap to your chest and zip him in my coat to walk the dogs (it was cold out) Even though we lived on the second floor and I could have dead bolted the door. What if there had been a fire? I don't even like to leave him alone in the living room, and he's 4 now. Mainly because he opended the dead bolt to a stranger one when I was in the shower day talk about scarry. Well that dosen't happen anymore. Even if I am not in the shower my hubby has to call so I can unlock all the new chains and latches on the door before he can get in after work. Don't get me wrong we live in a nice enough area but bad things can happen anywhere and people need to realize that before they leave their kids. I do think these parents are having to much fun for their child to be missing running tennis daycare for the twins. They need to be charged with child neglect they have said they left their 3 child alone that's neglect.

[scandi]

Here's another jewel I found on that same main link, pp 405:


"This from the Scottish Daily Record today {May 22, 2007}:

MADELEINE McCann's kidnapper grabbed her as she slept and carried her away without waking her brother or sister, her family believe. Relatives of the snatched four-year-old are convinced that twins Sean and Amelie, two, slept through their sister's abduction.

And they believe that if the twins didn't wake up, it means Madeleine didn't make a sound as she was taken.

Madeleine's aunt, Philomena McCann, told the Daily Record yesterday: "We are pretty sure the twins slept right through.

"They weren't able to tell their parents anything about the abductor.

"We believe Madeleine slept right through the moments she was taken from the room, which would have meant there was no noise.
"It breaks my heart to think of the way it would have happened. I honestly try not to think about it."

According to press reports in Portugal, there were no signs of forced entry or a struggle in the room.

Thought this might be of interest to you."

I was in error and had said Grandma said it, but it was Madeline's Aunt Philomena. Bet they'll rue the day she made this comment!

Scandi

[scandi]

I cannot imagine anyone finding a child wandering at night and not immediately finding a police officer or other person in authority to help locate the child's parents...so #4 makes no logical sense to me. I think we can rule that one out completely.

I don't think the parents are involved in her disappearance because of their detailed schedules and their abilis when she went missing. They were seen before, during, and after she vanished. So I think we can also rule this out. The police are obviously satisfied with their alibis, too.

If the child wandered away, the window wouldn't have shown signs of someone breaking into the room. She wasn't strong enough to have 'jimmied' the window open. So they have ruled this out with good reason.

Leaving us with an abduction...which is what they are concentrating their efforts on and is where we should concentrate OUR efforts! At the end of this horrid tale, the parents will be dealt with accordingly...but for now...they don't know any more than we do so let's move on.

I believe the police are following every lead possible at the moment and they have made some strides in finding Maddy...telling me they are on the right track. To be helpful to Maddy in our 'think tank' here...we need to start looking at what we already know from reports and go from there.

Is she still in the country? Was she sold or given to someone for a blackmarket adoption? Could she be with a sex predator? What does their suspect actually know and can we find out more about him prior to this? These are questions we can start debating and trying to find answers to. Let's get back to finding Madeleine and stop with the parents at this point. They are not the issue.

Let's get this back on track!

Hi SS, I do agree with your idea of discussing the actual abduction of Madeline, esp since we are a crime forum and not a parenting one, but tonight I have learned of some discrepancies regarding what is in the MP Report by local LE and what was said by family members. And I think any true investigator would include those things in his agenda.

One other thing that really bothers me now. Why would the aunt believe a perp could enter the room, pick up one sleeping child lying inbetween 2 sleeping others and leave, feeling most assured that any of the children did not open or blinked an eye?

Scandi

[SeriouslySearching]

I know from personal experience that my kids could sleep through anything after a rough day of playing. They didn't need to be drugged to do that. It was natural for them because after being in the sun, the surf, and the sand...they were worn out. It doesn't surprise me at all that Maddy wouldn't wake up while being moved. I have carried my kids in many times from car rides or moved them from me rocking them to their beds. They were oblivious. Also, when you have children near the same ages, as I did...they get used to sleeping through sounds that would wake up an adult every time.

This story doesn't raise any red flags for me. The police probably witheld the information of the window to the press.

To Scandi: If we had access to LE's actual reports and were interviewing the family members ourselves...I would agree. However, we can only go by accounts written by mostly foreign journalists and have no way to know what is really true. Statements can be taken out of context and misconstrued easily. I don't think we can say they are true discrepancies. I don't believe the family has a thing to do with Maddy's disappearance and neither do the police or the father would not have been free to leave to return to the UK for any reason.

[scandi]

What I'm really thinking SS, is I do agree with your last paragraph to me. We have been warned about taking the press + salt for truth in any matter.

I want to stay open to everything now, but don't see the parents as covering up an accidental death or planning to have a problem child abducted away.

What I do think is that this event has revealed some things about their lifestyle that these parents don't want made public which is where the discrepencies are coming in, to minimize things so the public doesn't focus on them, and then build up their image as wonderful parents with the help of a team of newhires.

It might turn out they have skeletons that would deter people from contributing to the search fund for example. Or they might want to keep delicate matters private or any thing else they do that good parents most likely wouldn't. Info is already out there sizzling like bacon about these things and it is the last thing they need going on right now. Finding Madeline is the important thing. Let the law or social agencies take care of them any way they want to after she is back home.

I read people are sending letters to a certain office to have these doctors investigated as to their poor parenting skills, and if there are enough complaints they will be forced to do an inquisition, speaking mainly I think of the father.

Nite SS Manyana ;}

[Shazza]

To Scandi, your posts and links have really got me thinking, there are to many discrepancies. There are to many scenarios and assumptions and I for one am guilty for speculating what may have happened. We have to wait for definite and true fact from the police and investigators. But I still and in no way can anyone change my mind think the parents are involved in some way as well as being negligent in the care of their children. Until Madelaine is found or more competant witnesses come forward we dont really know what happened. Let us pray for Madelaine.

Scandi have you ever thought about a career in this field. Your interest and talent of such matters is enlightening.

[Laurajean]

Persons page that are very interesting:

1. They list Madeleine as having "disappeared", not as "being kidnapped". On other missing persons pages, where they think the person was kidnapped, they say "kidnapped" or "taken away".

2. They list the time of her disappearance as 10:40 p.m., not between 9:30 and 10:00 p.m. Remember, 10:40 would be well AFTER the parents had come back to the apartment and found her missing, according to their accounts.

http://www.policiajudiciaria.pt/htm/Ingles/missing_person/madeleine.htm

I think that they (some of the Portuguese Police) may have realized that Madeleine probably woke up and wandered off. The ocean was right near their apartment. I'm guessing that she woke up, couldn't find her parents, and wandered out of the apartment, and ended up in the ocean. The only thing that is throwing me for a loop is her scent being traced unbroken to this grocery store, and then it vanishes:

http://supermercado-baptista.com/

Some on other forums have said that this could be because she went to the store previously with her parents. I don't think so, as they kept the kids in the resoirt's babysitting creche most of the day (parents' statements again), plus, the store offered services whereby you would phone in a list, they would shop for you and deliver your groceries. If it is found that M never went to the Supermercado Baptista, then the scent trail become very significant.

If the scent trail is significant, then I believe that this means she wandered to the grocery store, which the retired Scotland Yard detective who is consulting on this case said a small child "could easily toddle to (from the holiday apartments)"...and was picked up by somone there...If the store borders the ocean, though, again, she could have gone in there as well...

In my opinion, these parents are extremely negligent regardless of the outcome of this case. If they were not doctors, and did not have the funds to hire lawyers and a PR firm, they would probably be facing child neglect and endangerment charges sa we speak. Does anyone else think that it's odd that they posted a detailed daily schedule on their website? Wouldn't you do the exact opposite for the safety of your other children? Are they that self-centered that they need to post this info.? I think they are trying to divert attention away from their own terrible parenting. This is not "parent bashing"; this is fact.

(See the parents' website: http://www.findmadeleine.com/ for the schedule I am talking about.)

[CarpeDiem]

I'm not bothered about the writing their schedule thing, I look at their profession, they are used to taking scrupulous notes, writing down EVERYTHING, being extremely organized. I think that's just how they are.

We were speaking above of wether the children were asleep when Maddie was taken, this new link says she was asleep BETWEEN the twins. :eek:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article1829442.ece

[Laurajean]

the other information I mentioned above, it becomes even clearer to me that she woke up, probably walked around the apartment first and saw her parents were not there, and then left to go look for them. As far as the schedule thing, I agree with you, except, why post it??

[twinkiesmom]

Can I just dispel the notion that there is a black market ring out there for the adoption of 4-year-olds.

Toddlers are readily available for adoption in Eastern Europe (and elsewhere). A four year old girl would be considered hard to place even in Russia. There are many, many children in this age group waiting for a family.

If it was an illegal adoption ring, I think the younger boy-girl twins would have been a more attractive target....But since the other couples dining probably had babies, why weren't they taken instead.

The adoption scenario is the least likely.

I hope they have ruled out a Wade Steffey type scenario by checking every opening, niche, cranny in that complex....even the ones that are supposed to be locked.

[MoonGoddess]

I am posting here in the hope that I can be guided as to a possible? theory/reasoning behind the disappearance of this child………….and if I should act on it.

I have an interest in Psychic studies.

I was ‘pondering’ on the disappearance of this child which led me to discover that she went missing during a time in which Wiccan?/Satanic? ritual is celebrated (don’t know if that is an appropriate ‘term’ to use but not having a lot of knowledge on these ‘activities’ was frankly stumped as to the correct terminology to use.

I found these links – excerpts from which follow:-

http://www.trosch.org/help.html (http://www.trosch.org/help.html)


Excerpts from a Satanic Ritual Calendar found later in this document.....
.......

Apr 21 - May 1
Abduction


I am not copying/pasting the whole thing as quite frankly I found it deeply disturbing.

also

http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_article.html?a=cabc&id=8514 (http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_article.html?a=cabc&id=8514)


"DATE: Apr. 21-26, CELEBRATION: Preparation for the sacrifice. DATE: Apr. 26-May 1, CELEBRATION: Grand Climax, TYPE: Da Muer, USAGE: Corpus De Baahl, AGE: 1-25 (female)".[21] (http://www.witchvox.com/va/dt_article.html?a=cabc&id=8514#_ftn21#_ftn21) …………………Another Christian name for Beltaine is Roodmas, Rudemas or Rood Day, which has been moved to May 3.

.....

May 3 was the day Madeleine went missing. There was also a Full Moon the day before.

TBH this has totally freaked me out but needed to share it incase it holds any relevance. Would a police investigation even contemplate such co-incidences?...or even be prepared to expose - if any such activity was prevelant in an area in which tourists frequent?

Here is a link to a forum in the UK which is heavily debating aspects of this case, but mainly contains in house fighting amongst forum members whom have diversely opposing views as to the culpability of the parents, the huge amount of media coverage etc. But maybe some useful links as to the information we are receiving in the UK.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=575814

[Laurajean]

I think the most likely scenario, as I have said is that M left on her own, and ended up in the ocean or a large construction ditch.

A somewhat more sinister scenario I have contemplated is that she woke up, and walked around the apartment and had some type of accident there (such as ingesting medicine, or getting entangled in blind/drapery cords, etc.). The parents came home to find her, and the cover-up began. The only thing that would point to this so far is that the parents took a very long time before they sommoned police...

[englishleigh]

Persons page that are very interesting:

1. They list Madeleine as having "disappeared", not as "being kidnapped". On other missing persons pages, where they think the person was kidnapped, they say "kidnapped" or "taken away".

2. They list the time of her disappearance as 10:40 p.m., not between 9:30 and 10:00 p.m. Remember, 10:40 would be well AFTER the parents had come back to the apartment and found her missing, according to their accounts.

http://www.policiajudiciaria.pt/htm/Ingles/missing_person/madeleine.htm

I think that they (some of the Portuguese Police) may have realized that Madeleine probably woke up and wandered off. The ocean was right near their apartment. I'm guessing that she woke up, couldn't find her parents, and wandered out of the apartment, and ended up in the ocean. The only thing that is throwing me for a loop is her scent being traced unbroken to this grocery store, and then it vanishes:

http://supermercado-baptista.com/

Some on other forums have said that this could be because she went to the store previously with her parents. I don't think so, as they kept the kids in the resoirt's babysitting creche most of the day (parents' statements again), plus, the store offered services whereby you would phone in a list, they would shop for you and deliver your groceries. If it is found that M never went to the Supermercado Baptista, then the scent trail become very significant.

If the scent trail is significant, then I believe that this means she wandered to the grocery store, which the retired Scotland Yard detective who is consulting on this case said a small child "could easily toddle to (from the holiday apartments)"...and was picked up by somone there...If the store borders the ocean, though, again, she could have gone in there as well...

In my opinion, these parents are extremely negligent regardless of the outcome of this case. If they were not doctors, and did not have the funds to hire lawyers and a PR firm, they would probably be facing child neglect and endangerment charges sa we speak. Does anyone else think that it's odd that they posted a detailed daily schedule on their website? Wouldn't you do the exact opposite for the safety of your other children? Are they that self-centered that they need to post this info.? I think they are trying to divert attention away from their own terrible parenting. This is not "parent bashing"; this is fact.

(See the parents' website: http://www.findmadeleine.com/ for the schedule I am talking about.)

Laurajean, welcome to WS!!! I am with you 100%. the schedule has been discussed already and the only reason we can think of for it, is that they might have put it up to deflect criticism of their parenting. But I agree, I think it is very self-involved and also could put their remaining children in danger, if there really is a kidnapper out there. If a PR person had them do this, then that PR person is backfiring on them.

I have less and less sympathy for these parents as the days pass, unfortunately. Plenty of sympathy and prayers for little Maddie, but not so much for the parents who left her all alone. Anyone who wants to bash me, can bash away.

[Taximom]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=456974&in_page_id=1770

The parents of Madeleine McCann today made a pilgrimage to one of Europe's holiest shrines in the hope that she will be found safe and well.
As they visited the shrine police in Portimao on the Algarve were re-interviewing the girlfriend of the chief suspect. (more w/pic at link)

[Jdee]

Sorry, I screwed up and lost WS lololol

Anywy, this document which must have been put out by the local police as a missing person report has some interesting things in it.

It says "about 22H40" which this group feels is the approx time she was noticed missing which would have been the time of discovery by the mother. That is 10:40pm, later than we had heard before.

LE logged the call in their bood at 23H50, or 10 minutes till midnight!

The family said they went to the Tapas Bar at 8pm. Gerry went to check on her at 2100 hours or 9pm acc to this and the mom went at 2200 hours or 10pm. Why the disparity of 40 min.

The mother came back into the Tapas club screaming "They've taken her", and there are a couple of posts here where people read the parents thought they were being watched. Yea, and they left their kids alone! Something is wrong with the scenrio.

If the mom came in hysterical like that she wouldn't have waited 40 min to lollygag in the apt, right? Oh, BTW, it is an apt they are staying in and not a Hotel room.

And then they point out the mngmt of the Tapas said from the time they got there { at 8pm } until the mom went to check on the kids { at 10pm or thereabouts} neither left the restaurant, which widens that gap of time for the window of opportunity to grab her - from 8 to 10pm.


The iother interesting thing I discovered is they showed what she was wearing and it is a pink pajama outfit. The lady who saw Madeline at a gas station said she was wearing a blue pajama outfit. Interesting on the police report it says 'similar', and did not give the actual color she was wearing to put in the report. Am I getting too finiky? lololol

I think all of this is startling info! SCandi

I find the underlined an odd thing for the mother to say... /Is it a known fact she said this? Why was it "They" have taken her? I would have come in screaming, "SHE'S GONE!" Who is "They"??

[Jdee]

Sorry, I screwed up and lost WS lololol

Anywy, this document which must have been put out by the local police as a missing person report has some interesting things in it.

It says "about 22H40" which this group feels is the approx time she was noticed missing which would have been the time of discovery by the mother. That is 10:40pm, later than we had heard before.

LE logged the call in their bood at 23H50, or 10 minutes till midnight!

The family said they went to the Tapas Bar at 8pm. Gerry went to check on her at 2100 hours or 9pm acc to this and the mom went at 2200 hours or 10pm. Why the disparity of 40 min.

The mother came back into the Tapas club screaming "They've taken her", and there are a couple of posts here where people read the parents thought they were being watched. Yea, and they left their kids alone! Something is wrong with the scenrio.

If the mom came in hysterical like that she wouldn't have waited 40 min to lollygag in the apt, right? Oh, BTW, it is an apt they are staying in and not a Hotel room.

And then they point out the mngmt of the Tapas said from the time they got there { at 8pm } until the mom went to check on the kids { at 10pm or thereabouts} neither left the restaurant, which widens that gap of time for the window of opportunity to grab her - from 8 to 10pm.


The iother interesting thing I discovered is they showed what she was wearing and it is a pink pajama outfit. The lady who saw Madeline at a gas station said she was wearing a blue pajama outfit. Interesting on the police report it says 'similar', and did not give the actual color she was wearing to put in the report. Am I getting too finiky? lololol

I think all of this is startling info! SCandi

I find it odd that the mother came running in screaming "They've taken her". Is this a known fact she said this? It would seem the natural thing to come running in screaming would be "SHE'S GONE!". Who is "They"? And why automatically assume a "they" were involved, or that she was "taken"?

[Jdee]

opps sorry for the double post!

[Spazkat9696]

Can I just dispel the notion that there is a black market ring out there for the adoption of 4-year-olds.

Toddlers are readily available for adoption in Eastern Europe (and elsewhere). A four year old girl would be considered hard to place even in Russia. There are many, many children in this age group waiting for a family.

If it was an illegal adoption ring, I think the younger boy-girl twins would have been a more attractive target....But since the other couples dining probably had babies, why weren't they taken instead.

The adoption scenario is the least likely.

I hope they have ruled out a Wade Steffey type scenario by checking every opening, niche, cranny in that complex....even the ones that are supposed to be locked.

I now this is off topic, but is this true? I had always thought blonde hair light eyed caucasian girls were hard to adopt at any age. Just thinking because one day my hubby and I want to adopt and it would be nice if the child looked like us, and our son. I want to skip the baby part though. From talking to other people I know who have adopted they said that that the blonde hair light eye girls are really hard to get. Meaning there is a really long waiting list. I had never thought about her having been kiddnaped for adoption to a loving family who may not even know she was kiddnapped. Not that that is any better, but I have heard about that happening. I know it appears to us that this is getting a lot of mefia coverage, but the fact is most people in the US know nothing about it. It seems like most people I ask about it know nothing about it and they are pretty up on the news. Just one more question has anyone heard anything else about the woman who says she saw Maddie in Morocco. I am attaching the link.
http://www.sundayherald.com/news/heraldnews/display.var.1411855.0.madeleine_hunt_moves_to_afri ca_after_sighting.php

[RoughlyCollie]

I think that since Madeleine's stuffed animal was still there, the mother knew she had been taken, because if she had left on her own, she would have taken her lovie.

"They" is meaningless, I think. Just what happened to come out of the distraught, terrified mother's mouth. IMO.

I find it odd that the mother came running in screaming "They've taken her". Is this a known fact she said this? It would seem the natural thing to come running in screaming would be "SHE'S GONE!". Who is "They"? And why automatically assume a "they" were involved, or that she was "taken"?

[Laurajean]

took her stuffed animal with her when she was kidnapped? I don't think the animal being left behind is necessarily a sign that she was kidnapped. If she woke up and felt she had to get to her parents, she could have also just walked right out the door, without taking anything.

I do think that what the mother allegedly said, and the fact that they waited sooo long to call the authorities may point to another scenario, which is what if she met with an accident in the apartment, or right near it, and the parents walked in on the aftermath...

- should be "Jessica Lunsford" sorry for the typo -

[RoughlyCollie]

It's a theory that depends on the child's habits, which we don't know.

One of my children had a lovey that he took with him everywhere, no matter what.

If Madeleine was like that, then if she'd left on her own, she would have taken her lovey.

The mother's response to her child being missing may also depend on what she knows about her own child. Perhaps Madeleine wasn't the sort of child who would leave an apartment to look for someone. Maybe Madeleine was a good sleeper who always slept through the night without waking up and/or without getting out of bed.

I've heard there are children like that, although none of mine were.

Maybe when the decision was made to look in on the children frequently, Madeleine's mother said, "what if she is kidnapped while we are gone?", and went along with the idea after pressure by others who were with them. Then, that being topmost on her mind, she would have said the child was taken.

Or perhaps it had crossed her mind as a very remote possibility, and that's the first thing she thought of. "Very remote" because if she had thought it a real possibility, perhaps they would not have left the children alone.

I am talking only about the mother, not the father, only because I am discussing what the mother was reported to have said.






took her stuffed animal with her when she was kidnapped? I don't think the animal being left behind is necessarily a sign that she was kidnapped. If she woke up and felt she had to get to her parents, she could have also just walked right out the door, without taking anything.

I do think that what the mother allegedly said, and the fact that they waited sooo long to call the authorities may point to another scenario, which is what if she met with an accident in the apartment, or right near it, and the parents walked in on the aftermath...

[Jeana (DP)]

She was in a strange country in a strange room with no parental guidance. What she "normally" would have done may not be what happened that evening.

[RoughlyCollie]

How well I remember that case! It is the worst I have ever followed.

I don't know if Jessica took her lovey or whether she was holding it and that [expletives deleted] psychopath just scooped her up and she happened to be clutching it, or if he gave it to her to help keep her quiet.

I don't know how long the McCanns waited to call the police. I do not trust any of the news unless it comes straight from the mouths of the Portugese police.

The reason I feel that way is that nearly everything I've read, I've found statements to the contrary.

took her stuffed animal with her when she was kidnapped? I don't think the animal being left behind is necessarily a sign that she was kidnapped. If she woke up and felt she had to get to her parents, she could have also just walked right out the door, without taking anything.

I do think that what the mother allegedly said, and the fact that they waited sooo long to call the authorities may point to another scenario, which is what if she met with an accident in the apartment, or right near it, and the parents walked in on the aftermath...

- should be "Jessica Lunsford" sorry for the typo -

[Jdee]

Has it been stated if she was potty trained? If she had woken up and need to to 'go' she probably would not have picked up her toy to take it with her to the bathroom. Not fnding her mother she may have 'forgotten' about the toy and opened the door and wondered out.
I want to add that I do believe she was kidnapped but posing all possibilities here.

[RoughlyCollie]

Yes, and it seems to me that the strangeness of the place would have made her less apt to venture out. I guess it depends on the child, and we don't know much about Madeleine's personality or habits.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts on why the mother would immediately think Madeleine was kidnapped.

This is the first time I've heard of parents in this strata of society leaving their children alone. Sure, I know it happens, but every time I've heard of it, the parent(s) are druggies or prostitutes or somehow fully caught up in a disreputable lifestyle.

A million people could post on here that it was normal for parents with their cultural/educational/socioeconomic background to do this, and I still wouldn't agree that it was either smart or responsible parenting.

I live in a small, safe town with hardly any crime. We have a 90 pound dog. I will leave my 13 year old triplets at home while I go grocery shopping, but only if at least 2 of them are there, along with the dog.

There are too many things that can happen to toddlers who are left alone, or not watched carefully. We had locks on our toilet seats to prevent a head-heavy toddler from leaning over the toilet and falling in and drowning, for example.

I may be more of a safety nut than some parents because I had triplets and then one more child born 1.5 years later. I had to fully gear up for childproofing and childcare because it is hard to keep one's eye on 4 little kids at the same time. (The minute I had to change a diaper, the 3 remaining kids would giggle and run into another room, just to tease me.) For years, we'd hire 2 babysitters if we went out, which was seldom, so that one sitter wouldn't be overwhelmed by the 4 kids.

But safety nut or not, there is no way I can be persuaded that it is reasonable to leave such small kids alone for any amount of time.

Madeleine could have wandered off or she could have been kidnapped. The police seem pretty sure she was kidnapped at this point, though.








She was in a strange country in a strange room with no parental guidance. What she "normally" would have done may not be what happened that evening.

[twinkiesmom]

RE: blonde hair light eyed caucasian girls...

There is a wait for babies, not toddlers or preschoolers, regardless of coloring.

There are half a million children in Russian orphanages.

I adopted my daughter at age 4...she had dark blonde hair, very fair, and green eyes. She was waiting for a family...we traveled as soon as our papers were ready.

[RoughlyCollie]

I hope so too. She could have wandered off, gotten sleepy, and curled up somewhere.

One time when my kids were ages 3, 3, 3, and 2, we hired 2 babysitters (older women) to watch them while we went out to dinner.

One of them played hide-and-go-seek with the triplets. At one point, she could not find one of them anywhere, so she called 911.

The entire police and fire department showed up at my house. They had a dozen men searching outside and inside for my son.

The playroom door to the garage was opened during the search. At the end, when everyone was completely frantic, the babysitter closed that door and happened to look in the built-in cabinet which had low to the floor cubby-holes in it. Two cubbies had been hidden by the open door.

There was my son, clutching his teddy bear, curled up, fast asleep! He had hidden there and he was such a hard sleeper (and still is at age 13) that he didn't wake up even with all the hubbub.

We arrived home about 5 minutes after the emergency personnel had left. Thank God, because if we'd driven up and seen all the police cars and fire engines at our house, lights ablazing, I would have had a heart attack on the spot.



The adoption scenario is the least likely.

I hope they have ruled out a Wade Steffey type scenario by checking every opening, niche, cranny in that complex....even the ones that are supposed to be locked.

[RoughlyCollie]

They'd have to search the village -- the resort is not located in just one area.

http://www.markwarner.co.uk/summer_holidays/portugal/ocean_club

" On the western Algarve lies the village of Praia Da Luz, and home to the Ocean Club. The unusual setting of the Ocean Club is just one of the reasons why this Mark Warner destination is so unique. A series of private areas, surrounded by individual villa-style accommodations dotted throughout an independently working village gives a sense of space and personality whilst having the exclusive Mark Warner holiday facilities that make a holiday with us so different."


"Childcare
Located in the Waterside Garden is our fully equipped childcare centre offering our award winning childcare for children aged 4 months and upwards. There is a colourful crèche with an outdoor play area and the nannies organise regular beach trips and other supervised fun activities for the children. Hours are 9am till 12.30pm and 2.30pm to 5.30pm.
We offer a ‘dining out service’ (only available for parents using the Millenium and Tapas restaurants). in the crèche on a drop-in basis in the evenings for children aged 4 months to 9 years. For those parents wishing to dine at alternative restaurants in the village, babysitting is available on request at additional charge. "


http://www.markwarner.co.uk/summer_holidays/portugal/ocean_club/childcare

[scandi]

I find the underlined an odd thing for the mother to say... /Is it a known fact she said this? Why was it "They" have taken her? I would have come in screaming, "SHE'S GONE!" Who is "They"??

Good Morning

Hi Dee, Evidently the person who posted this also thought it odd, because the last sentence of her paragraph was that this was told by a family member of the McCanns. I agree it is odd too. There were several posters that came on and said they had heard talk the parents had said they felt like they were being watched, but you just never know if a thought put out there like that is a red herring or true.

[Jdee]

Hi Scandi! There seems to be a lot of mis-information in this case because of the closed mouth of the police involved not releasing information. I have my doubts about the 'being watched' statement for several reasons... it is bad enough they left the kids alone but to do so feeling you were being watched? That does not jive.
It was on sky news this morning they were reinterviewing two people again;
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1266986,00.html
I have a strong feeling that there is more going on here than they are telling. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors but I feel SOMETHING keeps sending the police back to this group of people.

[scandi]

To Scandi, your posts and links have really got me thinking, there are to many discrepancies. There are to many scenarios and assumptions and I for one am guilty for speculating what may have happened. We have to wait for definite and true fact from the police and investigators. But I still and in no way can anyone change my mind think the parents are involved in some way as well as being negligent in the care of their children. Until Madelaine is found or more competant witnesses come forward we dont really know what happened. Let us pray for Madelaine.

Scandi have you ever thought about a career in this field. Your interest and talent of such matters is enlightening.

LOL, you are too kind Shazza, but I do wish I had gone into investigative work when I was a young chickie! ;)

Hi Laurajean and MoonGoddess << wavy guy>> Welcome aboard! I don't have much time as I have to get to work, but thought your posts both very interesting.

If you look at an ariel view of the development it would be hard for a toddler to make their way to the ocean I think, and also what the tide takes out it also brings back unless it gets caught in rocks under water. This is a sandy beach area, so I can't imagine this is what happened.

And during the Elizabeth Smart case we went over Satanic worship traditions quite heavily. I would ask if there is a lot of this type of activity in Portugal. There could be as it is the opposite of Catholicism and sometimes they go side by side acc to history. But one thing I know is that she actually went missing on May 5th acc the Missing Persons Report {which I have linked on one of the last 2 pages}. In America it was 11:50pm on May 3rdwhen they made the actual log in, so either LE had the date wrong or the fact in Portugal the time diff of 8 hours {PCT} made up for the diff in the date. That would be 4 days after the hour of sacrifice.

Gotta run but will check in later! Scandi

[Floh]

Good Morning,

Hi Shazza, No problem, and I think we see things pretty myuch eye to eye. ;}

I did a lot of reading last night on the Google site devoted to Madeline and it really was an interesting read. Our Floh may be Mod there.

I am — i swore i wouldn't ever moderate again, but got my better nature appealed to and it was only going to be until Madeleine came home and she should be home now and i'm really very very worried about her.

i had to come here to have a break from there for a moment and what do i do but come to this thread, for goodness sake! :eek:

anything i can assist in to see this girl come home - i have to believe - i will do, but darn it! mods here. you know i really do and always have appreciated you, don't you! :blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

[scandi]

I did just hear on FOX that LE is going down to Morocco {maybe Monaco ;} today. That is good.

I read the account by the lady who saw Madeline at the gas station. Madeline was standing in a hallway of the station with a man close by watching her, and this lady made eye contact directly with her she said. Two attendents were standing there and when the lady looked over to them they all kind of gave a
'look' to each other, as in my, this is a strange situation. Madeline was in blue pajamas and had a very lost, bewilered look on her face. I believe this lady lives locally and was on her way back up from vacation.

I hope LE wants to interview these attendents. I think they are doing a really thorough job!

Well, now I need to get a great map. I know the resort is down in the SW corner of Portugal on the oceanfront. I wonder how far away that is from the gas station? What I'm thinking is this sighting was what, 6 days after she was taken. Hadn't they changed her clothes? I might have this sighting confused with another one, so if anyone knows it would be great to get that straight! LOLO

[scandi]

It was Morocco which is at Gibralter. I found an article about the sighting I hadn't seen before:

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21760367-2,00.html
Snippet
" . . . Mrs Olli, who was on holiday in Marrakech, which has a population of about two million, said she was "very sure" it was Madeleine.

"I walked into the petrol station and saw the little girl standing there. She looked sad.

"When the man saw me looking at them he turned away, so I couldn't see his face.

"It's very strange. If it was me with a child there, I would hold their hand, but this man was a metre away from her.

"At 6pm the next day I turned on the news in Spain and got a real shock, because it was definitely her.

"All that evening I was physically sick. I was calling all the police, but no one wanted to talk to me. I was phoning the Spanish police about 20 times.

"We then phoned Leicestershire (England) police, who took my report and said it was a 'very strong observation'.

"But since then nobody has phoned me back.

"It's a nightmare. I feel I should have done something, that I should have looked after that girl in some way."

Scandi

[CarpeDiem]

This new article is good for information, covers the new suspects, police blunders, includes pics:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23397707-details/%20Madeleine:%20Two%20suspects%20released%20as%20p oli%3Cbr%20/%3Ece%20errors%20emerge/article.do

[mjak]

I am — i swore i wouldn't ever moderate again, but got my better nature appealed to and it was only going to be until Madeleine came home and she should be home now and i'm really very very worried about her.

i had to come here to have a break from there for a moment and what do i do but come to this thread, for goodness sake! :eek:

anything i can assist in to see this girl come home - i have to believe - i will do, but darn it! mods here. you know i really do and always have appreciated you, don't you! :blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

Floh can you post a link to your site? I would be intrested to check it out.

mjak

[scandi]

Floh can you post a link to your site? I would be intrested to check it out.

mjak

Hi Mjak, Here is a link to their home page: http://formadeleine.proboards106.com/index.cgi

I just joined as I go there and read every day and it is very well organized and moderated! LOLOLOLOL There are some great sleuthers over there including locals which I love to read.

Scandi

[scandi]

This new article is good for information, covers the new suspects, police blunders, includes pics:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23397707-details/%20Madeleine:%20Two%20suspects%20released%20as%20p oli%3Cbr%20/%3Ece%20errors%20emerge/article.do


Hi Carpe, I read today that Luis Antonio is the current pool tender at the resort where the McCanns are staying, so would have had the opportunity to learn the family schedule and learn quite a bit about watching them.

Good article. Thanx Sweetie! Scandi

[Floh]

Floh can you post a link to your site? I would be intrested to check it out.

mjak


It isn't my site.

you would have to register now if you want to view. too much trouble with trolls made us have that rule.

i wouldn't post a link unless it was agreed by admin here. :)

[Floh]

oops. too late. Scandi dun it already.

like i say, guest viewing no longer allowed.

there is quite a lot of good stuff there but the chatting on the threads not for chatting slows looking for the interesting parts down, unfortunately. IMO.

and we do have a portuguese journo who regularly reports.

this site was born out of Steve Huff's crimeblog, although it is not affilliated. it was a group wo got together after posting many, many comments on his board.

http://crimeblog.us/

[Tori2]

Scandi,
As the others have expressed, but I want to reiterate, thanks so much for supplying us with so much info!! I'm in school so I can only really come on a lot during the summer. I really rely on you for so much of the information. You're better than Greta and Nancy Grace!!

[Tori2]

Carpe and Floh,

Thanks to you guys, too!! You are true-blue websleuthers!!

[Floh]

Hi Mjak, Here is a link to their home page: http://formadeleine.proboards106.com/index.cgi

I just joined as I go there and read every day and it is very well organized and moderated! LOLOLOLOL There are some great sleuthers over there including locals which I love to read.

Scandi

Yes there ARE some great sleuthers there!

the board is temporary as long as Madeleine is missing r until it feels like time to call the board a day.

i have no interest in getting involved in another board long term at all.

and the only subject really and truelyy is Madeleine (apparently the family don't call her Maddie).

[Floh]

Hi Carpe, I read today that Luis Antonio is the current pool tender at the resort where the McCanns are staying, so would have had the opportunity to learn the family schedule and learn quite a bit about watching them.

Good article. Thanx Sweetie! Scandi

This is the biggest red flag yet, to my mind!

[scandi]

oops. too late. Scandi dun it already.

like i say, guest viewing no longer allowed.

there is quite a lot of good stuff there but the chatting on the threads not for chatting slows looking for the interesting parts down, unfortunately. IMO.

and we do have a portuguese journo who regularly reports.

this site was born out of Steve Huff's crimeblog, although it is not affilliated. it was a group wo got together after posting many, many comments on his board.

http://crimeblog.us/

Thanks Floh, I followed right over there by reading Steve's site and have been so impressed with the diversity and quality of it. Is Paulo the local journo? Having the UK and Portugese and other European posters is a real plus too, as it brings everything right on home into my little place to get the most one can out of the scenario and investigation. I know you won't forget us over here Sweetie, and be sure and take your vitamins and a rest in an easy chair once in awhile! ;}

I do have real hopes after reading everything today that this little wisp of a girlie, now our Madeline too, is alive out there and will be found. I just pray that with all my heart.

Scandi

[scandi]

Scandi,
As the others have expressed, but I want to reiterate, thanks so much for supplying us with so much info!! I'm in school so I can only really come on a lot during the summer. I really rely on you for so much of the information. You're better than Greta and Nancy Grace!!

Why thank you Tori for the nice compliment!~ Very nice.

Websleuths is my home but I do venture here and there to learn as much as I can, and I've learned when it's hot it is the time to get crackin' on following the trail. Anything that excites me I share here so we are all on the same page knowledge wise.

How about Nancy Drew? :D She was my hero when I was a young girl. Nancy and Ned! Scandi

[Floh]

Thanks Floh, I followed right over there by reading Steve's site and have been so impressed with the diversity and quality of it. Is Paulo the local journo? Having the UK and Portugese and other European posters is a real plus too, as it brings everything right on home into my little place to get the most one can out of the scenario and investigation. I know you won't forget us over here Sweetie, and be sure and take your vitamins and a rest in an easy chair once in awhile! ;}

I do have real hopes after reading everything today that this little wisp of a girlie, now our Madeline too, is alive out there and will be found. I just pray that with all my heart.

Scandi

Paulo travels to follow the news on Madeleine. see his board in the 'Portugal' forum.

he even went to Fatima today.

i believe he's based in Lisbon.

other portuguese posters filling us in on the news that is in their papers which seems to be a bit of stuff that doesn't get outside.

Scandi: i was most touched earlier in the thread when you said, "Our Floh."

made me feel all warm inside, thank you.

[scandi]

This is the biggest red flag yet, to my mind!

I think so too Floh, Aside from the opportunity he had to 'spy' on them, I read the 3 of them resemble the people LE mentioned right away that had been spotted. Yesterday learning about the escape paths out of their resort, hidden by trees and foliage, my brain skipped a wave as I imagined the man and woman seen darting quickly thru those paths and probably into a back door of
RM's mothers house.

It is getting to be a bit of a complicated case!

[scandi]

Paulo travels to follow the news on Madeleine. see his board in the 'Portugal' forum.

he even went to Fatima today.

i believe he's based in Lisbon.

other portuguese posters filling us in on the news that is in their papers which seems to be a bit of stuff that doesn't get outside.

Scandi: i was most touched earlier in the thread when you said, "Our Floh."

made me feel all warm inside, thank you.


Denada Dah'ling!

[CarpeDiem]

This is the biggest red flag yet, to my mind!

Oh yeah, that's glaring.

[Floh]

AND MORE!

FOR ME THIS IS A BIGGIE!!!

And in a second local link to the biggest news story of the year, it has been revealed that until Easter, Father John Wilson, of Wells, was priest at the church at Praia da Luz which has been visited daily by the McCann family since little Maddie was snatched.?

http://www.derehamtimes.co.uk/content/derehamtimes/news/story.aspx?brand=DFTOnline&category=News&tBrand=DFTonline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED23%20May%202007%2013%3A48%3A49%3A870

OMG!!!!

my head feels like it's exploding!

[Floh]

HE is the vicar in the village the ex mrs Robert Murat lives!!!

was priest at the church at Praia da Luz which has been visited daily by the McCann family since Madeleine disappeared.

He still has an apartment in the area and has returned to the village and speaking from there spoke about the feelings of the ex-pat community for Mr Murat, who lived at Hockering until two years ago.

tell me THIs is coincidence????

no way!

[scandi]

AND MORE!

FOR ME THIS IS A BIGGIE!!!

And in a second local link to the biggest news story of the year, it has been revealed that until Easter, Father John Wilson, of Wells, was priest at the church at Praia da Luz which has been visited daily by the McCann family since little Maddie was snatched.?

http://www.derehamtimes.co.uk/content/derehamtimes/news/story.aspx?brand=DFTOnline&category=News&tBrand=DFTonline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED23%20May%202007%2013%3A48%3A49%3A870

OMG!!!!

my head feels like it's exploding!


Heavenly Sakes Alive, just when I have to leave for work! LOL

Are you thinking what I am Flo. He was to be the recipient of Madeleine? On ForMadeleine just now a poster said there was a priest with a different name who left about the time she went missing who had a problem with finances and sexuality. All these people know each other. I wonder if these two priests were both at that parish!

It certainly is something to get to the bottom of, isn't it!!

Thanks for the link. I knew nothing about this priest. Scandi

[scandi]

HE is the vicar in the village the ex mrs Robert Murat lives!!!

was priest at the church at Praia da Luz which has been visited daily by the McCann family since Madeleine disappeared.

He still has an apartment in the area and has returned to the village and speaking from there spoke about the feelings of the ex-pat community for Mr Murat, who lived at Hockering until two years ago.

tell me THIs is coincidence????

no way!

. . . Add in the fact the 'ex' Mrs RM is living with the pool man who works at the complex where the McCanns apt is. She gets him to help spirit Madeleine away with her, and she is taken to Mother Murats home and held until RM hires that extra car that he uses to drive Madeleine to the priests apt {a diff car so noone in town would notice him}.

How then and why does Madeleine end up in Morocco? That lady was so sure she was Madeleine as she looked her square in the eye? That was 6 days I think after she went missing. Is that right about the sighting.

WOW and OMG if this is the case! A Mind Blower for sure!!!

ETA: Maybe passing her on to another priest? I do think she is still alive. IMHO

[Floh]

. . . Add in the fact the 'ex' Mrs RM is living with the pool man who works at the complex where the McCanns apt is. She gets him to help spirit Madeleine away with her, and she is taken to Mother Murats home and held until RM hires that extra car that he uses to drive Madeleine to the priests apt {a diff car so noone in town would notice him}.

How then and why does Madeleine end up in Morocco? That lady was so sure she was Madeleine as she looked her square in the eye? That was 6 days I think after she went missing. Is that right about the sighting.

WOW and OMG if this is the case! A Mind Blower for sure!!!

ETA: Maybe passing her on to another priest? I do think she is still alive. IMHO


No. the girlfriend is living with the pool man who is her ex husband. and Robert Murat sometimes lives with both of them (and her daughter, daughter of the pool man).

the father/priest/vicar has an apartment in the Portuguese village where Madeleine went missing. and he used tl be the vicar at the church (which is shared anglican/catholic) in Praia da Luz where Madeleine went missing. he was there until easter. this man actually lives in Hockering where Robert Murat, suspect, has his ex wife living. with their daughter. RM and ex wife's daughter.

got it? :banghead:

[Jdee]

If all these connections are correct then seems a lot of people were involved. If so it is likely one will 'slip up' and not keep 'the story' straight. Probably why they keep re-interviewing. I wonder if it was pre-planned then or a crime of convenience? My mind will swing hard one way then I will read something else and my mind goes off in the other direction!

[Floh]

If all these connections are correct then seems a lot of people were involved. If so it is likely one will 'slip up' and not keep 'the story' straight. Probably why they keep re-interviewing. I wonder if it was pre-planned then or a crime of convenience? My mind will swing hard one way then I will read something else and my mind goes off in the other direction!

Drenching myself in this story as i am for all my waking hours while not working you can imagine how rapidly MY mind is swinging from side to side and upside down inside out, Jdee! :doh:

[scandi]

No. the girlfriend is living with the pool man who is her ex husband. and Robert Murat sometimes lives with both of them (and her daughter, daughter of the pool man).

the father/priest/vicar has an apartment in the Portuguese village where Madeleine went missing. and he used tl be the vicar at the church (which is shared anglican/catholic) in Praia da Luz where Madeleine went missing. he was there until easter. this man actually lives in Hockering where Robert Murat, suspect, has his ex wife living. with their daughter. RM and ex wife's daughter.

got it? :banghead:

How Funny, and yes I think it's swirling around in my brain now. I wonder if this Father Wilson's apt and home have been visited by the dogs yet?
This just broke today, right? Certainly this is why they have these two people back in today for questions, although I heard she left and he was still at the PD, and why RM has been looked at so heavily as the laison to make the match and bring her there in the rushed rental of the car!

They actually could be very close to solving this, don't you think Floh? I am so thankful that the UK has such a great rep for investigation, and I so thank this little local paper in North Saxon, well England, for giving us this HUGE new insight into the case today. It makes total sense to me!

Now they just have to find out where they have sent Madeleine off to with that nasty old man who turned his back at Ms Olle {sp} at the gas station.

Giraldo just had a little blurb on this. It will be big news!

[Jdee]

What scares me about this crime as it is so high profile world wide that if this person or ANY person has her they would have to want to keep her VERY bad to risk being caught with her. When you consider the whole world is looking for her! I wrote in a suggestion (when they asked for it on Sky News) that they show pictures of her with her hair altered and dressed like a boy but I have not seen that done yet. I would think that whoever has her has most likely changed her appearence unless of course they don't plan to let her out like that poor girl in Sweden.

[Jdee]

HE is the vicar in the village the ex mrs Robert Murat lives!!!

was priest at the church at Praia da Luz which has been visited daily by the McCann family since Madeleine disappeared.

He still has an apartment in the area and has returned to the village and speaking from there spoke about the feelings of the ex-pat community for Mr Murat, who lived at Hockering until two years ago.

tell me THIs is coincidence????

no way!

I'm not good at this but I would love to see someone that is post all the concidences going on here including that it has been stated she looks like M's own daughter. If we could see it layed out maybe we could get a better handle on the coincedences.

[mjak]

What do we know about Robert Murat? Why is he considered a suspect ? I have been unable online to really find an explanation for why the police suspect him. I found out he was working with the police as an interperter when a reporter got suspicios of him and notified police. He lives in the complex where Madeline dissapeared. What else is it that makes him a suspect?

mjak

[Jdee]

mjak.. I think the police are not releasing all the information they have on 'M' and because of this we don't know what exactly makes him a suspect but I feel they do and this really creeps me out. At first I thought he was just a 'scapegoat' as was stated but now I am wondering if there is more than meets the eye with him.

[mjak]

mjak.. I think the police are not releasing all the information they have on 'M' and because of this we don't know what exactly makes him a suspect but I feel they do and this really creeps me out. At first I thought he was just a 'scapegoat' as was stated but now I am wondering if there is more than meets the eye with him.

They must be keeping Information hidden. It is the only thing that explains the complete exoneration of the parents and this man being a suspect.

mjak

[scandi]

Hi Mjac, I think it is because he told that reporter or someone he was an investigator. Big red flag.

The dogs hit at his mothers house I think. Will have to check on that! I'm sure Floh knows all the reasons.

He knows the vicar on one hand and knows the poolman and his ex-wife on the other hand, who together with RM have been pulled in for questioning. I think on Geraldo I heard the poolman and his ex were called in as witnesses, but who knows the truth right now? :rolleyes:

I'm wondering why these guys all keep living with their ex's? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Jdee]

They must be keeping Information hidden. It is the only thing that explains the complete exoneration of the parents and this man being a suspect.

mjak

I agree and I HOPE they do have SOMETHING they are going on here. I would hate to think they are just grasping at empty air.

[Floh]

I'm wondering why these guys all keep living with their ex's? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And that, in this sad, sorry business, made me laugh out loud.

i must go to bed, but i'll be back tomorrow with my thoughts and maybe a round up.

all the coincidences yes!

i will say that the vicar hasn't, as far as i'm aware, been called in for questioning and is under no one's suspicion except mine! for now. :waitasec:

[MoonGoddess]

What do we know about Robert Murat? Why is he considered a suspect ? I have been unable online to really find an explanation for why the police suspect him. I found out he was working with the police as an interperter when a reporter got suspicios of him and notified police. He lives in the complex where Madeline dissapeared. What else is it that makes him a suspect?

mjak

Hi All,

Here is a link to an article written by the British Journo who put his name forward to the police and why she did it.

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/tm_headline=why-i-shopped-maddy-suspect%26method=full%26objectid=19135270%26siteid =98487-name_page.html

Mr Murat is vehemently protesting his innocence and has contacted a well known PR guy here in the UK to represent him.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=456803&in_page_id=1770&ICO=NEWS&ICL=TOPART

I personally do not think he is involved, or maybe I am just naive to think that he would be protesting his innocence so strongly if he was guilty.

[scandi]

Whoopsidoo, before you head off, I am now wondering if Kate's 'they' could be in the priesthood. It would certainly explain why she said such an odd thing even though she was rattled. If she had seen them lurking around.

We need to know more.
Have a good sleep, and manyana ;}

[philamena]

This is an excellent point. There is only conjecture that she was abducted. She was left unsupervised so therefore what happened to her could be as you described it. Her parents are paying a horrible price for their horrific judgement: however, that price is miniscule compared to the life of a child. It is Madeline who is likley paying the worst price of all.

mjak


mjak,
You've written an excellent post. As you said, Madeline is paying the worst price of all. :sick:

[Furious]

"they kept the kids in the resoirt's babysitting creche most of the day (parents' statements again)"

Holy crap......When I see parents doing this when I travel with my wife and 2 kids I think the parents are super lazy and just plain detached from their kids. Let me guess.....they have a nanny back home too right? Usually these sorts of parents that stick the kids in the "kids club" at resorts are the nanny type of people. SELFISH

Look here, I've taken my kids - aged 10 & 3 - all over the place. Cancun, Mayan Riviera, Manzanillo, Acapulco, Turks & caicos, Bahamas, Grand Cayman, Virign Islands etc etc......and I LOVE sharing everything with them. My wife and I know that we are travelling as a FAMILY and that our life will revolve around our kids for the weeks we are there. We go to bed early with the kids and get up early....we don't get drunk by the pool or beach while some stranger looks after our children and they're stuck in some kids club babysitting bull#*!t Why bring the kids if you're going to act like they're a burden??? I want to enjoy my wife and kids while on holidays uninterupted by the hustle & bustle of life at home in the big city here in Toronto. I love seeing my kids reactions while playing in the waves and sand or in the pool or out on excursions to swim with the dolphins or go see ancient ruins. These sorts of parents are selfish and lazy. YES it's hard work looking after a 3 year old while vacation....but that's YOUR job...not some stranger.

Back to sleuthing and NOT ranting. They should look into the people running the babysitting service/kids club. Someone there may have spotted the easy prey in these lazy parents and knew they were an easy "mark".....too bad. Once again it's the parents fault here......ditching the kids to strangers ALL DAY and leaving them alone at night, when the hell did they see the kids???? for 1/2 hour in the mornings for breakfast????.....they don't sound fit to be parents!!! IMO :furious:

[englishleigh]

Is it possible that the McCanns might have attended Mass at that church in Praia da Luz that weekend before Maddie was taken? She was taken on Thursday, right, and they'd been there several days already? Could they have gone to church on the Sunday and this priest saw her? Or was he already gone to England at that time?

This is huge and makes me extra-sick if it is true, since I am Catholic. I'm always defending the good priests I know from comments about the general perception of pedophile priests..... :mad:

[Spazkat9696]

Didn't they say they left the kids alone because they didn't want to leave them with a stranger? Do they have personal relationships with the babysitting service?

[mjak]

Hi All,

Here is a link to an article written by the British Journo who put his name forward to the police and why she did it.

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/tm_headline=why-i-shopped-maddy-suspect%26method=full%26objectid=19135270%26siteid =98487-name_page.html

Mr Murat is vehemently protesting his innocence and has contacted a well known PR guy here in the UK to represent him.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=456803&in_page_id=1770&ICO=NEWS&ICL=TOPART

I personally do not think he is involved, or maybe I am just naive to think that he would be protesting his innocence so strongly if he was guilty.

Thank you for posting this. I agree the guy is odd and needed to be looked into. However, I am far from comfortable saying the guy is guilty of anything. Either the police are holding back lots of information or they are doing a lousy job.

mjak

[scandi]

Hi Englishleigh, I'm confused on that too. He was a priest there until Easter - in April, right? He has a house in the country where his ex-wife lives - begins with an H ;} which I had the impression wasn't too far away, but I could be wrong. I'll look up those towns now.

I don't know why Floh thought this priest Wilson was back in England, but if he is, the article says he has been back to Praia de Luz since Madeleine went