Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 3

[Jeana (DP)]

Continue please.

[sleuthin4fun]

"Yeah, it is much further away than I ever imagined,too. What were they thinkin?
I laughed when I saw the scetch of the man with the child...that is just ludicrous.Surely the witness can do better than this. It is a pic of an egg with hair. What an absolute joke.....Well, it would be if a childs life was not in jeopardy. I cannot get over all this...."
__________________
Not to make light of the situation but maybe she was taken by "Humpty Dumpty". :angel: That picture is ridiculous!!!!!

[Salem]

Thanks for making a new thread!

[philamena]

Kazzbar,

So sad and so wrong, if her parents had taken proper care of their children they would still have three of them. :(



Jubie

No lie!
Where the parents supped that night was not only a few feet away from the apartment where the children slept.
The parent's were negligent, plain and simple.

[SeriouslySearching]

Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49652) << Before this gets lost! It is so much easier to go back and check things if this is put at the beginning of the new threads.

[Shazza]

Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49652) << Before this gets lost! It is so much easier to go back and check things if this is put at the beginning of the new threads.
Great idea SS. Is it definite that Madelaine was abducted, everyone seems to think this is what happened but I havent seen cold hard facts yet that she was. Or have I missed them, if I am I apologise.

[petra]

New Madelieine Video Released
http://news.sky.com/skynews/home

[petra]

"Yeah, it is much further away than I ever imagined,too. What were they thinkin?
I laughed when I saw the scetch of the man with the child...that is just ludicrous.Surely the witness can do better than this. It is a pic of an egg with hair. What an absolute joke.....Well, it would be if a childs life was not in jeopardy. I cannot get over all this...."
__________________
Not to make light of the situation but maybe she was taken by "Humpty Dumpty". :angel: That picture is ridiculous!!!!!

PT law does not allow sketches of a POI or suspect's features to be released to public--only hair style and head shape.

I agree it is ridiculous! :mad:

[petra]

In trying to catchup with the posts, I started reading the last ones first scrolling backwards. At first, I thought the visit to the Vatican was a one off comment :waitasec: I am really put off by not only the visit, the photo shoot with the twins and the insensitive-cold way the interviews with the parents came across. Only once was the word 'love' mentioned.

I am trying to not stand in judgement. The kicker for me was when the location of the tapas bar was actually shown versus what was first reported. Quite a difference!! I noticed in a poster's link of the hotel that it includes half board--breakfast and dinner at one of the two restaurants (the tapas being one of them). So there was indeed a fixed routine for most tourists, and easy for someone to follow theirs.

[twinkiesmom]

RE: Murat...I don't have the link to the interview with his ex-wife, but I find it absolutely chilling that he phoned his wife 15 hours after Madeleine's disappearance desperate to talk to his 3 year old daughter, Sophia. If he's involved, it's evidence of consciousness of guilt.

[englishleigh]

Jeana...any chance that Madeleine will get her own forum soon, like Lisa Stebic did? We could have all the threads together that way.

That business about Murat phoning his wife and daughter right after Maddie disappeared is spooky. I do think he's the perp...I just want to know where she is. Is she dead...did he hand her off to someone else??

Whatever happened to that very promising-sounding sighting of Maddie in Morocco?

[Jdee]

At first I thought Murat was a scapegoat but now I am swinging the other way. Too many red flags with this guy. My question is IF he had something to do with Madeleine being taken, what did he do with her.. and why did he take her? It's been said she looks like his own daughter, so if that is the case it would stand to reason that was why he took her. But then what the heck did he do with her? Hide her off somewhere until he could go off and start a new life playing 'Daddy'? That just does not make any sense to me. Then we have the kiddi porn scenero... considering he HAS his own daughter did his wife know about the kiddie porn? Has she bothered to have her own daughter checked out since this has come to light?
And what about the computer guy (forget his name) that did 'M's website..? How does this character fit in? A thousand questions here and not one freaken answer.

[CarpeDiem]

RE: Murat...I don't have the link to the interview with his ex-wife, but I find it absolutely chilling that he phoned his wife 15 hours after Madeleine's disappearance desperate to talk to his 3 year old daughter, Sophia. If he's involved, it's evidence of consciousness of guilt.

Only if he called BEFORE it was known she was gone. As it was 15 hours later, the next day when word was out, it's not such a show of guilt.

I think we all love show our love to our kids a little more intensely when one of these abductions is in the media or our own town. Especially when we have a child of the same age.

[petra]

At first I thought Murat was a scapegoat but now I am swinging the other way. Too many red flags with this guy. My question is IF he had something to do with Madeleine being taken, what did he do with her.. and why did he take her? It's been said she looks like his own daughter, so if that is the case it would stand to reason that was why he took her. But then what the heck did he do with her? Hide her off somewhere until he could go off and start a new life playing 'Daddy'? That just does not make any sense to me. Then we have the kiddi porn scenero... considering he HAS his own daughter did his wife know about the kiddie porn? Has she bothered to have her own daughter checked out since this has come to light?
And what about the computer guy (forget his name) that did 'M's website..? How does this character fit in? A thousand questions here and not one freaken answer.


At first I thought it was perhaps a kidnapping for ransom, the way the whole thing was handled.

But now with interpol and scotland yard involved, plus this new info on Murat, I think something much more sinister might be going on and LE officials are aware of many of the players in a larger problem.

JMO-I am probably way off.

I am totally ignoring the parents actions as I find them just so inappropriate.

Did anyone see the pics on the skynews link I posted above. I believe it is the last pic that has an inflatable billboard--released with today's date and says 1.5 pound sterling reward. What happened to the other 1 million??

[twinkiesmom]

Here is a translated report from the For Madeleine board:
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//dn.sapo.pt/2007/05/28/sociedade/judiciaria_segue_pista_velejador_bri.html&hl=en&langpair=pt|en&tbb=1&ie=utf-8

It links Murat's computer to a British citizen (35-year-old man who snatched her?) with a yacht or houseboat who left port right after the disappearance to the sighting of Madeleine in Marrakesh.

[twinkiesmom]

<<Only if he called BEFORE it was known she was gone. As it was 15 hours later, the next day when word was out, it's not such a show of guilt.>>

It's not proof because it occcurred after, but emotionally, it's very telling...reminds me of Scooter obsessively cleaning the living room carpet after Laci's disappearance.

RE: Murat...I think they really need to look at his finances...it does not appear that he was a working real estate agent or could have lived off that website.

[CarpeDiem]

I still question the other people with them that night, the nine other adults whom knew the kids were alsleep in an unlocked room, some of whom went back to that apartment to check on the kids. Why are people with known access to this child less of a suspect than a "stranger"? The only thing I can come up with is that the police don't think either the parents or the nine others would have the availablitly in a foreign land to dispose of or hide Maddie so successfully. But, we don't know anything about those people, their past, if they were regular visitors to Portugal and this resort, nothing.

[CarpeDiem]

RE: Murat...I think they really need to look at his finances...it does not appear that he was a working real estate agent or could have lived off that website.

Yeah, could explain why he lived there with his Mom.

[doodlebugstudio]

This case is consuming me and I'm haunted by Madeleine's face.

I'm in agreement with other posts on this board. I really wanted to give Murat the benefit of the doubt, but I'm just "feeling" that he has more to do with this than he's admitting. Remember, he was already under surveillance. They obviously had something on him to do this. And the filth they found on his computer is just another notch against him and the passport and the call. This guy is totally involved!

Also, the comments I've been hearing on other boards about how this is just one child are just appalling! I'm a mother of two and I will tell you that all children are priceless. If my child was missing, I would do EVERYTHING within my power to get her back. I would almost sell my soul! The McCann's are doing everything they can and I for one admire them for it. I think I would kill myself if this happened to me. My children are my life! So to tell someone it's just one child is just horrible.

Hopefully, once Madeleine is found safe and sound, everyone will put the same energy into finding other missing children. It may be one child, but she could be the catalyst for getting the world more involved in missing children cases.

Let's keep praying that Madeleine is found safe and is returned to her family immediately.

I actually like this board. It's filled with intelligent, caring people and not the hate-mongers I've seen on other boards. For that, I would like to say thank you for focusing on finding Madeleine and not bashing her parents. It shows that many of you care about this case and her.


Stacy

[Jdee]

Well said Doodlebugstudio... I completely agree with you.

[Morag]

Here's a link to the interview with the ex wife, and there's a picture of the Madeleine lookalike.


http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/tm_headline=my-life-with-&method=full&objectid=19205643&siteid=98487-name_page.html

[Morag]

Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 2 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49652) << Before this gets lost! It is so much easier to go back and check things if this is put at the beginning of the new threads.


And here's the link to Part 1:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49339

[Jdee]

Oh good grief! Did you read this in that interview...!!?

"She has also briefly talked to him about Russian internet expert Sergey Malinka, 22, who has also been quizzed by police.
One question is whether phone records prove the pair spoke late on the night Madeleine disappeared, when Murat claims he was asleep.
But Dawn says: "Rob hasn't talked to me about whether or not they spoke on the night. It's up to him to tell me if he wants to."

PALEEEEEZEEEE!!! Why would his wife not GRILL him over this!!!???????

and that little girl looks so much like Madeleine it's erie...

[CarpeDiem]

Oh good grief! Did you read this in that interview...!!?

"She has also briefly talked to him about Russian internet expert Sergey Malinka, 22, who has also been quizzed by police.
One question is whether phone records prove the pair spoke late on the night Madeleine disappeared, when Murat claims he was asleep.
But Dawn says: "Rob hasn't talked to me about whether or not they spoke on the night. It's up to him to tell me if he wants to."

PALEEEEEZEEEE!!! Why would his wife not GRILL him over this!!!???????


and that little girl looks so much like Madeleine it's erie...


OMG, that pic gave me chills. Thanks for the link Morag. The reason she didn't grill him is because she doesn't really want to know.

All I've been hearing about is the McCann's upcoming visit with the Pope. I'm surprised they didn't take their twins, to have those children blessed by the Pope himself would have been BIG, and a once in a lifetime experience for any Catholic. They should have done that. But, they were left without their parents in the same foreign land their sister was taken from. I don't get it.

[MoonGoddess]

Here's a link to the interview with the ex wife, and there's a picture of the Madeleine lookalike.


http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/tm_headline=my-life-with-&method=full&objectid=19205643&siteid=98487-name_page.html


What I personally feel with this article is that they have been quite selective in their reporting of their time with Murat’s ex wife. It was this newspapers reporter (Lori Campbell) who ‘shopped’ Murat to the police (although it is claimed he was already under surveillance) whilst they were busy talking to Murats ex – the reporter who shopped him (Lori Campbell) was in Portugal conducting the piece for the McCanns interview in the same paper – same day!

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/tm_headline=parents-tell-of-their-anguish----their-hope%26method=full%26objectid=19206226%26siteid=98 487-name_page.html


THE SEARCH FOR MADELEINE DAY 25 'We sleep with twins in our bed..they are our only comfort now'

Lori Campbell In Praia Da Luz Lori.Campbell@Sundaymirror.Co.Uk (Lori.Campbell@Sundaymirror.Co.Uk) 27/05/2007


. This newspaper and reporter came under fire when it was not a foregone conclusion that Murat had any involvement, and were almost accused of Trial by Media. I think it would suit them if he was found to have an involvement – as it would exonerate them. They seem to be keeping a foot in both camps –IMHO….. Despite the ‘implications’ in the article with Murats ex:-

She is adamant Murat is innocent, saying: "He wouldn't hurt a fly. There is no way he could have done anything to that little girl."

On this evening news:-
http://www.itv.com/news/index.html
http://mfile2.akamai.com/22743/wmv/carlton1.download.akamai.com/12621/news/fae8c7e564ee1b730f20f668461ac52f.asx

The McCanns saying goodbye to the twins, getting on the freebie private jet on their way to Rome to meet the Pope........all of course with a camera crew in tow..........I'm sorry but there's just something about the way that they are conducting all this in the media glare - I just dont buy that its all publicity for their missing daughter-cant put my finger on it, but there really is something about these two that just aint sitting right with me.

[doodlebugstudio]

I don't agree with you MoonGoddess. I think they are doing EVERYTHING right in the media. They are using the media to make sure we don't forget about their little girl. I would do everything they are doing. They are desperate to find their daughter and if that means they suck-up to the media, then by God do it! They aren't doing anything wrong!

Also, the picture of Murat's daughter is just creepy. I'm sorry, but she looks too much like Madeleine and it's too much of a coincidence that he had tons of child pornography on his computer, had late night conversations with the Russion (after the Russian said he hadn't talked with him over a year and changed his story three times).

I also agree with the CarpeDiem. His ex-wife didn't ask because she doesn't REALLY want to know and I don't think he would tell her anyway. I think he's using his wife to protest his innocence.

And I seriously doubt the Portuguese police would have made Murat a suspect solely based off the suspicions of a journalist. They have more on him. They just need the smoking gun and maybe they are trying to find that. God, I hope so!

This case is breaking my heart. I just want her found safe and sound!


Stacy

[Jdee]

OMG, that pic gave me chills. Thanks for the link Morag. The reason she didn't grill him is because she doesn't really want to know.

All I've been hearing about is the McCann's upcoming visit with the Pope. I'm surprised they didn't take their twins, to have those children blessed by the Pope himself would have been BIG, and a once in a lifetime experience for any Catholic. They should have done that. But, they were left without their parents in the same foreign land their sister was taken from. I don't get it.

I didn't get that either. I would feel nobody I left them with (family or otherwise) could watch them like myself. They should hire body guards for them if they are going to leave the babies.

[Morag]

Here are some interesting comments from Murat in the article by the reporter who "shopped" Murat. It looks as though he- first thing Friday morning- already knew about a missing child. And the comment about his daughter looking like Madeleine is a little confusing--it almost sounds as though he knew what Madeleine looked like before he went there. I wonder how fast the word spread through the village as to exactly what happened?
Murat told his wife that he was asleep (at a time when he supposedly talked to the Russian computer guy) so he must have been informed as soon as he woke up...This guy has to be involved.

The upset he exhibited to his wife, having to talk to his daughter to make sure she was all right- here's how I interpret that:
He didn't get a good look at Madeleine's face when he took her. When he saw her picture on tv, perhaps he thought they (the other bad guys) had somehow kidnapped his daughter.

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/tm_method=full%26objectid=19135270%26s


"It was first thing Friday morning. I went to the McCanns apartment and immediately offered my services to police as a translator."

"I asked why he was so touched by her disappearance. "I have a daughter of the same age," he replied. "In fact, she's the spitting image of Madeleine. I felt sick to the stomach when I heard. I rushed here as soon as I could to offer my help."

[dingo]

Maybe the twins are being better cared for by who ever has them..hopefully their caretakers will have better ideas on how to supervise children then their own parents do.

[Jdee]

but even if the wife 'thought' he wouldn't tell her if he had or had not talked to the Russian Computer Guy I would think she would still grill him over it. Just the way she was so nochalant in her answer is 'off' to me.

[Jdee]

They left them with the sister

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1267797,00.html

"They promised the toddlers they would be back tomorrow, leaving the youngsters with Mr McCann's sister Trish Cameron"

[harleysnana]

Here's a link to the interview with the ex wife, and there's a picture of the Madeleine lookalike.


http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/tm_headline=my-life-with-&method=full&objectid=19205643&siteid=98487-name_page.html

Interesting things from this article...

"Mother Dawn, seen protectively cuddling Sofia, has allowed us to show her daughter's face as she breaks her silence over her ex-husband's arrest."

"HE was agitated and tearful when he rang begging to speak to Sofia just hours after Madeleine was snatched"

"He told her he was a key player in the police operation - now shown to be untrue."

"Another question is why Murat, who had access to both his own and to his mother's car, was so keen to get hold of a hire vehicle two days after he was arrested."

Things that make you go ... :waitasec:

[doodlebugstudio]

Come on people! We are back to bashing the parents. This is about Madeleine and finding her.

Also, the twins lives are already in upheaval. Why torment them by dragging them on an emotional trip they don't need to be on. It's going to be hard enough on the McCann's to see the Pope. Why should their children have to be subjected to something they aren't used to? And I'm sure there will be lots of media there for that. Being in Portugal is totally different than being in the presence of the Holy Father and in Rome.

Come on! Let's get real about this. They are doing what they have to for Madeleine, but also trying to keep some sort of balance and routine for their other two children.

Again, I know the majority of the people on this board are intelligent, caring people. Let's not keep rehashing what the parents did wrong. What's done is done. Let's use our energy and prayers to find Madeleine!

[dingo]

You can try to excuse the parents all you want......some of us have different opinions and we are allowed to express them
The parents are copping flack because of their continuing poor choices.....if they had used better judgement in the first place we wouldnt even be here discussing this case.

[MoonGoddess]

You can try to excuse the parents all you want......some of us have different opinions and we are allowed to express them
The parents are copping flack because of their continuing poor choices.....if they had used better judgement in the first place we wouldnt even be here discussing this case.

I whole heartedly agree with you.

[CarpeDiem]

The end of this article says that testing done in the apartment and Murat's home will be done "soon". Maybe there will be a break this week.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21818848-1702,00.html

[MoonGoddess]

Vernon Coleman has been writing articles and columns for national newspapers since 1964. Over the last twenty years, he's written columns for the Daily Star, The Sun, Sunday Express, Planet on Sunday and The People, and has contributed over 5,000 articles, columns and reviews to 100 leading British publications including the Daily Telegraph, Sunday Telegraph, Guardian, Observer, Sunday Times, Daily Mail, Mail on Sunday, Daily Express, Woman, Womans Own, Punch and Spectator. His columns and articles have also appeared in hundreds of leading magazines and newspapers throughout the rest of the world.

http://www.vernoncoleman.com/main.htm

Are Madeleine McCann's Parents Guilty Of Neglect? (And Is This Really The Biggest News Story In Britain?)

Vernon Coleman


Not every journalist in the UK is sypmathetic to the McCanns.

[sleuthin4fun]

Boy do Maddie and Sofia look alike. I think it is even more creepy though how much Maddie looks like Dawn (Murat's ex-wife).

[philamena]

You can try to excuse the parents all you want......some of us have different opinions and we are allowed to express them
The parents are copping flack because of their continuing poor choices.....if they had used better judgement in the first place we wouldnt even be here discussing this case.
You got that right dingo.:clap:
The parents made an error in judgment and the result of that judgment was Maddy being taken. The parent's neglect or poor judgment IS part of the crime.


Originally Posted by Morag
Here's a link to the interview with the ex wife, and there's a picture of the Madeleine lookalike.


http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/s...name_page.html (http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/tm_headline=my-life-with-&method=full&objectid=19205643&siteid=98487-name_page.html)
Good lordy. Maddie looks more like Sophia's mom Dawn, than she does her own mom.

[guineveer]

Having traveled alot with 2 toddlers myself (not twins), I can understand leaving them safely in the care of the aunt. Their routine will be kept as normal as possible, and they will be safe. The parents, meanwhile, can concentrate on the purpose of their trip (which is only a day or so) and then return posthaste. This makes sense to me, as a parent, and shows that the McCanns are actively thinking about what is best for their children. It is tragic they did not show this forethought previously.

I pray God that I will never know their anguish and heartache. I do not personally feel they are involved (other than leaving her alone that night). I do not presume to know how I would react, or act, or what my actions would be. I do think I would move heaven and earth to find her. If that means "sucking up to the media" as someone else put it, I would do that. I would see every dignitary, president, queen, king or pope who would hold audience with me if it meant keeping her disappearance in the public spotlight.

Sadly, in the US I haven't seen her case mentioned in the news in over a week. I have to check online for news. I pray the coverage continues in the rest of the world and that it helps find her.

[Morag]

Has this been reported elsewhere? It/s extra creepy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/18/wmaddy18.xml
Claims were made yesterday in a Portuguese newspaper that home-made video tapes of a "disturbing sexual nature" were found at Mr Murat's villa.

This may be important:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007210138,00.html
"A “WEIRD” man bothering children was reported two weeks ago to staff at the resort where toddler Madeleine McCann was snatched, it was claimed today.
A mother raised the alarm with police after seeing the suspicious man loitering around apartments."

After I re-read this, it sounded like she may have seen a maintenance person at work, rather than something more ominous.

[sleuthin4fun]

I NEVER said that you all weren't allowed to express your opinions, but the subject of this board is Missing People; not Neglectful Parents. I was asking that we stay on topic. If this board goes in the direction back to bashing the parents, I will find another board to actually discuss the missing person.

And MoonGoddess, I've seen your bashing posts on lots of other boards. It's sad that you have made it your mission to condemn the parents--instead of findng this poor, lost child.

All I want is to discuss the missing person and the case to find her.


Doodle, I have read through MoonGoddess posts and there is no bashing! She has only been a member for a week and you for a day. Also, she has not posted on lots of other boards. MoonGoddess has a total of 24 posts!!! She has simply stated that the parents are ultimately responsible for what happened to Maddie. That is a fact. It does not mean that they intentionally allowed her to be kidnapped (if that is what happened), it just menas that it would not have happened had they not left her alone. There is no arguement to be had there it is simply the truth. We here at webslueths discuss all aspects of a case including what led up to the said event. It is not bashing!

[MoonGoddess]

Doodle, I have read through MoonGoddess posts and there is no bashing! She has only been a member for a week and you for a day. Also, she has not posted on lots of other boards. MoonGoddess has a total of 24 posts!!! She has simply stated that the parents are ultimately responsible for what happened to Maddie. That is a fact. It does not mean that they intentionally allowed her to be kidnapped (if that is what happened), it just menas that it would not have happened had they not left her alone. There is no arguement to be had there it is simply the truth. We here at webslueths discuss all aspects of a case including what led up to the said event. It is not bashing!

I appreciate that sleuthin4fun.

I am stunned by that accusation:eek: and have reported it to the Moderators.

[twinkiesmom]

Doodlebug...You don't get to tell us what we can and can't post...We have moderators for that.

And the parents clearly put this child in harms way...There is a mom doing time in GA right now for not watching her toddlers (the two kids that drowned in a retention pond across the street).

[CarpeDiem]

Having traveled alot with 2 toddlers myself (not twins), I can understand leaving them safely in the care of the aunt. Their routine will be kept as normal as possible, and they will be safe. The parents, meanwhile, can concentrate on the purpose of their trip (which is only a day or so) and then return posthaste. This makes sense to me, as a parent, and shows that the McCanns are actively thinking about what is best for their children. It is tragic they did not show this forethought previously.

I pray God that I will never know their anguish and heartache. I do not personally feel they are involved (other than leaving her alone that night). I do not presume to know how I would react, or act, or what my actions would be. I do think I would move heaven and earth to find her. If that means "sucking up to the media" as someone else put it, I would do that. I would see every dignitary, president, queen, king or pope who would hold audience with me if it meant keeping her disappearance in the public spotlight.

Sadly, in the US I haven't seen her case mentioned in the news in over a week. I have to check online for news. I pray the coverage continues in the rest of the world and that it helps find her.

Welcome. Great first post. But, her case has been mentioned in the US media more often than that, just the past two days a lot of coverage of the upcoming visit with the Pope. And a newspaper in Arizona has had a lot of coverage of the story, articles no one else has run, go figure. I too use the internet for a lot of news stories, Google News with the search term Madeleine McCann, sorted by date, works well.

Edited to add, here is the publication out of Arizona that has run a lot of stories on Madeleine, The National Ledger. This one was from this morning:

Police Botch Suspect Description:
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272613701.shtml

[Shazza]

You can try to excuse the parents all you want......some of us have different opinions and we are allowed to express them
The parents are copping flack because of their continuing poor choices.....if they had used better judgement in the first place we wouldnt even be here discussing this case.
Exactly, we are not parent bashing, it is stating facts, we dont have enough facts on the whereabouts of Madelaine, I am saying that the parents are more involved in this than we think and the behaviour they are showing while their daughter is missing is not normal for parents who have a missing daughter, who btw wouldnt be missing if they had taken better care of her.

[Shazza]

I appreciate that sleuthin4fun.

I am stunned by that accusation:eek: and have reported it to the Moderators.

You have a lot of posters who support your posts, I too am one of those posters, how can you be parent bashing when you are stating fact.

We all want the same outcome, for Madelaine to be found safe and sound.

[Jdee]

To answer your question simply.. no... but it was these parents fault.

[Shazza]

That is want we all want, and if the children were being watched, yes they could have been taken at any time if that is what happened, you are assuming that they were kidnapped, a kidnapping has not yet been proven. The parents left the children alone in an unlocked room where they could not see or hear them, which is contrary to what they said. If I leave a child in a parked car while I went into the shop for a minute I would be have been hauled up before a judge and charged with child neglect, what these parents did was neglect and should pay accordingly. You say to stop parent bashing, but we are stating fact, everything else that is being discussed on this thread has not been proven so there are a lot of different scenerios being thrown in here that we all have different opinions about, but we are not accusing anybody else that their opinion is wrong and a lot of what is being said is obviously not right, we are all trying to picture what happened without knowing the all the facts.

Just chill a little, your opinion is not being questioned just your accusations.

[doodlebugstudio]

Fine! OK, it's the parents fault. Let's move-on and discuss the actual case. this board was actually quite interesting when we were talking about trying to find Madeleine.

Thanks to everyone that has been putting up really great stuff about the actual case and the clues. Isn't this board about finding clues and trying to solve a case or did I miss something?????

[dingo]

Well said Shazza....we all hope and pray that Madeline is found safe.

[doodlebugstudio]

I will chill! I just would like the topic to get back to where it was. And I'm taking all of this way too personally. I feel like I'm being attacked and told I'm a bad parent for trying to understand the parents. I would never leave my children alone, but I also wouldn't be pointing fingers. I guess I'm that kind of person. I understand that everyone is human and everyone makes mistakes.

I feel horrible for these people and I get really angry when people beat-up people that are already down. I guess I've always felt for the underdog and I just feel people are not playing fair.

[dingo]

Fine! OK, it's the parents fault. Let's move-on and discuss the actual case. this board was actually quite interesting when we were talking about trying to find Madeleine.

Thanks to everyone that has been putting up really great stuff about the actual case and the clues. Isn't this board about finding clues and trying to solve a case or did I miss something?????We are looking for clues Doodle ....and untill this case is solved the parents are as suspect as anyone else who was near Madeline that night.
The parents are the biggest part of the case at the moment......so far they are the only ones proven to have done something to endanger Madeline.
Stop telling us to move on!

[mjak]

Fine! OK, it's the parents fault. Let's move-on and discuss the actual case. this board was actually quite interesting when we were talking about trying to find Madeleine.

Thanks to everyone that has been putting up really great stuff about the actual case and the clues. Isn't this board about finding clues and trying to solve a case or did I miss something?????

Herein lies the confusion. You vew the case as being seperate from the parental neglect issue. Others, including myself feel it can not be seprated because at this point we can not conclude that the parents are not involved with Maddie's dissapearence. Therefore, to our thinking there behavior needs to be analyzied inorder to find clues. What makes Websleuths work the best is when people are able to express various opinions and insight. When a person becomes angry and tries to supress another members thoughts this deminshes the constuctive communication we have and is not conducive to a good sleuthing environment. I encourage you to continue to express your beliefs but at the same time show respect for other opnions and insight. If people post topis that are not of intrest to you then you are free to bypass. Please do not ask that those topics cease. IF we put constraints on the flow of ideas because of what we find tasteful then we are hindering our own investigatory progress by closing off information flow.

Thanks
mjak

[Shazza]

I will chill! I just would like the topic to get back to where it was. And I'm taking all of this way too personally. I feel like I'm being attacked and told I'm a bad parent for trying to understand the parents. I would never leave my children alone, but I also wouldn't be pointing fingers. I guess I'm that kind of person. I understand that everyone is human and everyone makes mistakes.

I feel horrible for these people and I get really angry when people beat-up people that are already down. I guess I've always felt for the underdog and I just feel people are not playing fair.
This is a very emotional thread for me also, it really is doing my head in, and there has been many a time where I would really like to say to some of the posters on this thread what was really on my mind about what they were saying, but sometimes you have to bite your tongue, we all dont think alike and am sure that the majority of parents here wouldnt have left their children alone, I always think of the worst things that could happen and that really stresses me out. You sound like a very caring parent, and dont feel like the underdog here, I too have felt that nobody has listened to what I have had to say when I think it really has a significant bearing on this case, but I just keep on posting and reading and trying to figure out where little Madelaine could be. Keep posting your ideas and thoughts and opinions, maybe all of us together might be able to help solve and understand what has happened to Madelaine.

[harleysnana]

Fine! OK, it's the parents fault. Let's move-on and discuss the actual case. this board was actually quite interesting when we were talking about trying to find Madeleine.

Thanks to everyone that has been putting up really great stuff about the actual case and the clues. Isn't this board about finding clues and trying to solve a case or did I miss something?????

doodlebugstudio... I appreciate your posting and your thoughts...but
a big part of this case is the fact that the parents left 3 very young
children unattended in a unlocked apartment!

It may be that they were targeted like you stated...
add that to the fact that they left the door unlocked...
Ill say it again and again...their neglect made it very easy for their child to be taken!

He probably did watch them.
He probably figured out that they were only checking
every 30 min or so.
He probably watched them leave the door unlocked
after checking on them.
IMO... had they not left the kids alone… or had they locked the doors each time they checked...
we might not be talking about this poor missing girl!

... I think this board is for people to post their thoughts!
It would be great if we could find clues and solve cases
in the meantime…. but that is not the only reason we have
this board.

IMO the before, during and after is a big part of solving a case.
And what the parents did before, during, and after play a big part of
this case as well as any case involving a missing child!

[CarpeDiem]

He probably did watch them.
He probably figured out that they were only checking
every 30 min or so.
He probably watched them leave the door unlocked
after checking on them.
IMO... had they not left the kids alone… or had they locked the doors each time they checked...
we might not be talking about this poor missing girl!



I have yet to figure out WHY they left the door unlocked. Because the random people in this party of 9 adults (including the McCann's) supposedly didn't go in the apartments the children were in, they just listened outside for crying. So why keep the door unlocked??

[Jdee]

I read that they did go in the apartment but the kids were in an inner room and they did not enter that room until Mrs. McCann opened the door and the inner door blew shut like a vacume which would have been created by an open window.

[Salem]

I only have a few minutes tonight - but whoever said that Maddie looks like Dawn, I think this is an EXCELLENT point.

Somewhere I read that the Portugese police think this could be some kind of "revenge" taking. Someone mad at the McCanns so they stole her daughter. Also, there is a bunch of talk about "sex" on both Murat's and McCanns sides. I haven't been paying much attention to it because I thought it sounded like "sour grapes."

But..... looking at Maddie and Dawn, maybe there is something there? We know it took fertility treatments or some such method for Ms. McCann to get pregnant. What if Dawn's eggs were used? See where I'm going with this?

I have to go to a meeting, but can't wait to get back here.

Prayers for Maddie - may she be found soon, alive and well!

Salem

[mjak]

I only have a few minutes tonight - but whoever said that Maddie looks like Dawn, I think this is an EXCELLENT point.

Somewhere I read that the Portugese police think this could be some kind of "revenge" taking. Someone mad at the McCanns so they stole her daughter. Also, there is a bunch of talk about "sex" on both Murat's and McCanns sides. I haven't been paying much attention to it because I thought it sounded like "sour grapes."

But..... looking at Maddie and Dawn, maybe there is something there? We know it took fertility treatments or some such method for Ms. McCann to get pregnant. What if Dawn's eggs were used? See where I'm going with this?

I have to go to a meeting, but can't wait to get back here.

Prayers for Maddie - may she be found soon, alive and well!

Salem

As farfeched as your idea may seem I can't discount it. This whole situation is bizzare and I am not counting any explanation out.

mjak

[dingo]

Im with you Mjak...nothing would surprise me at the moment.

[Jdee]

I actually saw an episode of Law & Order like this... Anything is plausible at this point.

[mjak]

I have trouble believing that this Murat guy would happen to have a daughter who looks so much like Maddie and Maddie's parents would conviently be criminally negelecful and leave this 3 year old home alone with a back door open. What are the chances of this? The lookalike child he finds happens to be left home alone and with the back door open for his easy access? It is hard for me to believe that out of all the children at this resort the one who looks so much like his daughter would happen to have parents who almost gift wrap her and hand her over to Murat? It just does not sit right with me.

mjak

[Shazza]

I read that they did go in the apartment but the kids were in an inner room and they did not enter that room until Mrs. McCann opened the door and the inner door blew shut like a vacume which would have been created by an open window.

I heard that the parents didnt even check on their children, the staff at the restaurant said that none of the party left the restaurant at the times that the children were supposedly checked on, that needs to be looked into a little more I think, were they or were they not checked on, why would the staff of the restaurant lie, they said no one left the restaurant until about 10pm when the mother came back yelling "They have taken her". This is all so wrong, to many things dont fit.

[Schmerty_Jones]

I have trouble believing that this Murat guy would happen to have a daughter who looks so much like Maddie and Maddie's parents would conviently be criminally negelecful and leave this 3 year old home alone with a back door open. What are the chances of this? The lookalike child he finds happens to be left home alone and with the back door open for his easy access? It is hard for me to believe that out of all the children at this resort the one who looks so much like his daughter would happen to have parents who almost gift wrap her and hand her over to Murat? It just does not sit right with me

mjak

Yep ! Something is rotten in the Paradisio of Portugal.Madelaine looks incredibly like Dawn. Creepy mistatements & timelines that have things said before they should have been known? If it seems too incredible to be coincidence ..It probably IS:waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec:

[CarpeDiem]

I heard that the parents didnt even check on their children, the staff at the restaurant said that none of the party left the restaurant at the times that the children were supposedly checked on, that needs to be looked into a little more I think, were they or were they not checked on, why would the staff of the restaurant lie, they said no one left the restaurant until about 10pm when the mother came back yelling "They have taken her". This is all so wrong, to many things dont fit.

That information and a bunch more coming out is what changed my opinion of the McCann's. Before I knew they were partying with a bunch of other people, kept the door unlocked, were so far away, didn't check on the kid's themselves, I was taking up for them. However, they lied in the early days, didn't want the public to know the other's were so called checking, they didn't want the public to know they had been doing this that whole week, and once that week were asked to go back to their apartment because one of the children was crying. :furious:

I find them beyond selfish where their children are concerned. I can't fathom how they could take risk after risk after risk for their own pleasure! The child waking up, scared and crying didn't stop them from doing it again. What the heck? It really makes ya wonder how they had the gall to continue their behavior. Nothing stops the McCann's from doing what they want to do, not their children, not common sense, heck the law wouldn't even stop them.

They talk about this run they took two weeks ago to some monument there and that it took 19 minutes to make the run, like we should be patting them on the back. Are they for real?? (This is while their precious Maddie could be laying dead on the side of the road somewhere or being tortured by the abductor according to the story they have spun about some pedophile/international child kidnapping ring.) Then the Dad adds that Maddie was athletic and wanted to run with them when they were back home but they wouldn't let her. And whom was with the kid's when they did go? I really have to wonder if they had it with the children interrupting them. These two lived in the moment, which is fine when it's your own life, but not when innocent children are involved.

I also find it laughable that they were threatening the police with legal action over a suspect description that wasn't even given to them until long after Maddie was gone. As If! The police should be threatening them! They aren't the victims right now, Maddie is!

Hopefully, the meeting with the Pope will cause them to open up to the rest of the story. If there is one. I hope they come clean on everything NOW. Because it isn't right and it isn't passing the sniff test.

[Shazza]

I dont think anything can be ruled out, as far fetched as some of these ideas are anything is possible.

Just saw again on our local news, we get a lot of updates here in Aussie land, the parents are on the way for a private visit with the pope. The mother stated that this must look selfish but we have to believe that what we are doing is right. By her saying this comment he makes me believe that they are feeling guillty, and need redemption.

[guineveer]

Welcome. Great first post. But, her case has been mentioned in the US media more often than that, just the past two days a lot of coverage of the upcoming visit with the Pope. And a newspaper in Arizona has had a lot of coverage of the story, articles no one else has run, go figure. I too use the internet for a lot of news stories, Google News with the search term Madeleine McCann, sorted by date, works well.

Edited to add, here is the publication out of Arizona that has run a lot of stories on Madeleine, The National Ledger. This one was from this morning:

Police Botch Suspect Description:
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272613701.shtml

Thank you for the welcome. :) I haven't caught any news at all here in the center of the US, not from local news or my morning/evening broadcast of CNN...but I'm not glued to the tv either. I didn't even see the Rome visit on television...I've been googling news for the past 10 days or so to keep up. That's amazing how different the coverage can be from even inside the US!

I can't help but think how frustrated the McCann's must have been in the initial days (weeks) of the case when the Portugese LE refused to release any info or publicize details. I've also thought that's probably why they enlisted the help of an attorney (although I'm definitely NOT trying to reopen that emotional can of worms! I know that's a touchy subject here as well.)

Can you just imagine the constant fear and worry accompanying your every minute of the day as your baby gets further and further away...and yet the people who could help by releasing info, refuse to do so? What a nightmare.

[luvbeaches]

They should be beating themselves up for leaving the children alone. I'm not sure what the laws of the land are there, but here in the US, they probably would be facing charges.

I hope they find Maddie soon, and I hope she's okay, but in my book there's no excuse for leaving those kids alone like they did. And I blame them for what has happened. If someone snatches your child out of your hands, it's one thing, but to leave that child alone, like they did, is another. :(

[doodlebugstudio]

I'm signing off this board. I've received several notes from people that have supported what I've said and felt like they could no longer post on this forum because when they supported the parents, they were attacked too. And the forum isn't what they want this discussion to be about. So they said they just stop posting because it became too painful for them to continue.

We may be the minority on this board and have compassion for the parents, but that doesn't make us wrong.

You've lost another person that doesn't agree with you, but I guess a true debate is when people can FAIRLY debate the facts, without throwing their emotions into the debate as fact (which I did too). The fact that people are calling them neglectful doesn't actually mean they are.

Thanks to those that "guided" me on how the board works. I guess I'm too emotional to post my opinions and I care too much about these people (the McCanns) being unfairly villified to actually comment any further.

Bye.

[CarpeDiem]

I can't help but think how frustrated the McCann's must have been in the initial days (weeks) of the case when the Portugese LE refused to release any info or publicize details. I've also thought that's probably why they enlisted the help of an attorney (although I'm definitely NOT trying to reopen that emotional can of worms! I know that's a touchy subject here as well.)

Can you just imagine the constant fear and worry accompanying your every minute of the day as your baby gets further and further away...and yet the people who could help by releasing info, refuse to do so? What a nightmare.

Maybe the police are acting as they are because they think they are being fed a bunch of crap by the McCann's.

[Spazkat9696]

Such drama, anyway whats the deal with Dawn I have been away for a bit.

[luvbeaches]

Maybe the police are acting as they are because they think they are being fed a bunch of crap by the McCann's.

Nothing would surprise me at this point. And it may be that someone really did just kidnap her. The mom and dad sure made Maddie an easy target.

[Shazza]

Nothing would surprise me at this point. And it may be that someone really did just kidnap her. The mom and dad sure made Maddie an easy target.
I wish we just had some concrete facts to go on, everything so far is just supposition, we are no closer to finding out what happened to Madelaine now than we were over two weeks ago when she first went missing. I think the case is getting cold ( as much as I hate to say that), or we are not being told everything so that it doesnt jeopardise the safety and return of Madelaine.

[dingo]

I'm signing off this board. I've received several notes from people that have supported what I've said and felt like they could no longer post on this forum because when they supported the parents, they were attacked too. And the forum isn't what they want this discussion to be about. So they said they just stop posting because it became too painful for them to continue.

We may be the minority on this board and have compassion for the parents, but that doesn't make us wrong.

You've lost another person that doesn't agree with you, but I guess a true debate is when people can FAIRLY debate the facts, without throwing their emotions into the debate as fact (which I did too). The fact that people are calling them neglectful doesn't actually mean they are.

Thanks to those that "guided" me on how the board works. I guess I'm too emotional to post my opinions and I care too much about these people (the McCanns) being unfairly villified to actually comment any further.

Bye.I see your light is still on so I will respond.
Noone is attacking you and for you to say so is unfair....everyone here has been very civil to each other whether we agree or not.
The majority here cherish our membership too much to be dragged into a slinging match with a chance of a banning for not playing nice.
I enjoy different points of view and I for one wish you would stay and voice more of yours......noone wants to blame the parents but they have given us little choice.

[sleuthin4fun]

Well Welcome, You should be a whole lot of fun!
No one is bashing these parents
No not all parents whose children are abducted are at fault you will not hear anyone on this board say that.. Not all parents whose children are abducted go out to dinner far enough away from the apartment that i you can't see and hear what is going on and leave the flippin door unlocked!!!!! The parents behavior is suspect and needs to be looked at. I am not saying that I think they are involved but, I think we need to take the blinders off and not just assume that Maddie was abducted because her parents said so. That is why their behavior is questioned, the stories just don't add up, now why is that?
Everyone here wants to see Maddie recovered but wether you like it or not they gave the perp opportunity and an open door.
I this country thay would be prosecuted.

[dingo]

In my country they would be to Sleuthin....thats what is getting under my skin...they need to be held accountable for starting this whole sad and heartbreaking story
Child neglect
Child adbandament
Child endangerment
and its a shame stupidity and selfishness werent punishible crimes.

[sleuthin4fun]

Such drama, anyway whats the deal with Dawn I have been away for a bit.


Spaz,
Someone had posted a link with a picture of Murat's ex-wife and his daughter Sofia. Sofia and Maddie do look alike but, Maddie looks very very much like Murats ex-wife Dawn!!!!

[byomoi]

Am I the only one who thinks that Sofia and Maddie don't look alike?

[dingo]

I thought their hair was similar but that was about it.

[sleuthin4fun]

Am I the only one who thinks that Sofia and Maddie don't look alike?I think they look similar but I really do think that Maddie looks like Sofia's mom Dawn.

[Shazza]

I think they look similar but I really do think that Maddie looks like Sofia's mom Dawn.
I didnt check out that link, will have to have a look as it seems to be on everyones mind at the moment, do you think it has something to do with Madelaines disappearance.

[SewingDeb]

Am I the only one who thinks that Sofia and Maddie don't look alike?

I see more differences than similarities. They have the same coloring and are close in age but that's about it. I do, however, see many resemblances between Maddie and Murat's ex-wife Dawn.

[dingo]

I didnt check out that link, will have to have a look as it seems to be on everyones mind at the moment, do you think it has something to do with Madelaines disappearance.
The link is on post 21 of this thread Shazza but for some reason I cant get it to open.

[Shazza]

The link is on post 21 of this thread Shazza but for some reason I cant get it to open.
I found it too and it wouldnt open for me either, how weird.

[sherri79]

I'm signing off this board. I've received several notes from people that have supported what I've said and felt like they could no longer post on this forum because when they supported the parents, they were attacked too. And the forum isn't what they want this discussion to be about. So they said they just stop posting because it became too painful for them to continue.

We may be the minority on this board and have compassion for the parents, but that doesn't make us wrong.

You've lost another person that doesn't agree with you, but I guess a true debate is when people can FAIRLY debate the facts, without throwing their emotions into the debate as fact (which I did too). The fact that people are calling them neglectful doesn't actually mean they are.

Thanks to those that "guided" me on how the board works. I guess I'm too emotional to post my opinions and I care too much about these people (the McCanns) being unfairly villified to actually comment any further.

Bye. on this thread i agree with most people. the parents set this chain of events in motion. their behavior before and after the event makes them suspects in my eyes. on other threads i totally disagree with some of the very people i agree with here. any time a child is involved people tend to become emotional. i have changed my mind about some topics based on what i have read on some threads. i enjoy reading post that have a different view than mine. the fact i totally disagree with you does not mean i have lost respect for your right to your opinions. 1 problem i have on this thread is i find it impossible to look at the case yet ignore the fact that took place before 10pm that night. i am not bashing the parents just including their neglect as part of the fact i see in this case.

[philamena]

.....

Whatever. I'm sick of the crap about how this is all the parents fault. Is it the fault of ALL parents who have their children abducted? ......



Nope, only the parents who leave 3 children alone, unsupervised! :doh:

[philamena]

I have trouble believing that this Murat guy would happen to have a daughter who looks so much like Maddie and Maddie's parents would conviently be criminally negelecful and leave this 3 year old home alone with a back door open. What are the chances of this? The lookalike child he finds happens to be left home alone and with the back door open for his easy access? It is hard for me to believe that out of all the children at this resort the one who looks so much like his daughter would happen to have parents who almost gift wrap her and hand her over to Murat? It just does not sit right with me.

mjak
mjak,
Post of the day!
Excellent points all. :clap:

[Salem]

I agree that Sophia and Maddie don't look much alike. I think Sophia looks like her father or at least the pictures of him.

But I do think there is some resemblence between Maddie and Dawn. So, do we know what kind of fertility treatments Ms. McCann had to get pregnant? I agree the idea that Dawn's eggs were fertilized and implanted is pretty far fetched. But.... it is explorable.....

In the beginning, it was often reported how the parents would not jepordize the children because of what they went through to get pregnant. Many of us picked up on this as we tried to rationalize/excuse the parent's behavior. That was before we knew the children were often left alone, in an unlocked room, while the parents were some distance away.

Is it possible that the McCanns did not know Murat was there in Portugal, but Murat knew the McCanns were there? Murat lives there so I'm sure he knows that apparently it is common practice for parents to leave their children unattended at this resort (at least that's what I'm picking up from the press). So Murat just waits for his opportunity?

The question is why wait so long? Why not totally ruin their vacation and snatch Maddie early on? Is that why one of the kids woke up crying on the other night? Because someone strange was in the room? Made enough noise to scare the person off? Who summoned the McCanns back to the apartment that night? One of the party that was checking children or a neighbor of the room the children were left in? Has anyone read anything about that?

Salem

[meowy]

Has it been said whether or not Maddie was an adopted child or a birth child of the McCann's?

[Shazza]

I agree that Sophia and Maddie don't look much alike. I think Sophia looks like her father or at least the pictures of him.

But I do think there is some resemblence between Maddie and Dawn. So, do we know what kind of fertility treatments Ms. McCann had to get pregnant? I agree the idea that Dawn's eggs were fertilized and implanted is pretty far fetched. But.... it is explorable.....

In the beginning, it was often reported how the parents would not jepordize the children because of what they went through to get pregnant. Many of us picked up on this as we tried to rationalize/excuse the parent's behavior. That was before we knew the children were often left alone, in an unlocked room, while the parents were some distance away.

Is it possible that the McCanns did not know Murat was there in Portugal, but Murat knew the McCanns were there? Murat lives there so I'm sure he knows that apparently it is common practice for parents to leave their children unattended at this resort (at least that's what I'm picking up from the press). So Murat just waits for his opportunity?

The question is why wait so long? Why not totally ruin their vacation and snatch Maddie early on? Is that why one of the kids woke up crying on the other night? Because someone strange was in the room? Made enough noise to scare the person off? Who summoned the McCanns back to the apartment that night? One of the party that was checking children or a neighbor of the room the children were left in? Has anyone read anything about that?

Salem
Everything needs to be explored, but I dont understand why Murat would kidnap or want the child kidnapped, what would be his motives.

[Salem]

I don't know what the motive might be. I just remember reading that the Portugese police thought this kidnapping might be an act of "revenge." When I first read that, I just thought the Port Police were throwing stones because they perceive the English police & media to be suspecious of them (the Port Police). But, maybe there is something there.

Maybe Murat didn't want Dawn to sell her eggs? Maybe Murat wanted another child, Dawn didn't, so he went to get the other child.

I'm not sure I believe this at all, just throwing out ideas. There does not appear to be any real new news. Everything is just a repeat of what has been said before or a bit of a "pissing" match between the different countries. I don't feel like I can trust either media source because the English appear to think the McCanns are saintly and the Portugese appear to think the McCanns are devilish (tad of an exaggeration there):crazy: but it makes it very difficult to try to figure out what is going on....

[Shazza]

I don't know what the motive might be. I just remember reading that the Portugese police thought this kidnapping might be an act of "revenge." When I first read that, I just thought the Port Police were throwing stones because they perceive the English police & media to be suspecious of them (the Port Police). But, maybe there is something there.

Maybe Murat didn't want Dawn to sell her eggs? Maybe Murat wanted another child, Dawn didn't, so he went to get the other child.

I'm not sure I believe this at all, just throwing out ideas. There does not appear to be any real new news. Everything is just a repeat of what has been said before or a bit of a "pissing" match between the different countries. I don't feel like I can trust either media source because the English appear to think the McCanns are saintly and the Portugese appear to think the McCanns are devilish (tad of an exaggeration there):crazy: but it makes it very difficult to try to figure out what is going on....
Totally agree, by throwing in everything it makes people think and no matter how absurd some of the ideas are, there is always a chance that anything is possible. By reading all these posts and following what we hear on the media where ever we live, this is all we have to go by even if we keep on rehashing things that have been said before. Something happened to Madelaine and someone knows what, so we keep on talking and throwing any ideas we have at each other until we hear some factual news that will explain what has happened to Madelaine.

[sleuthin4fun]

I didnt check out that link, will have to have a look as it seems to be on everyones mind at the moment, do you think it has something to do with Madelaines disappearance.


Oh. I don't know really I guess anything is possible. I just found it interesting how much more she looks like Dawn than her own mother,

[CarpeDiem]

Is that why one of the kids woke up crying on the other night? Because someone strange was in the room? Made enough noise to scare the person off?

Wow! No one has thought of that, until you did! That's a real possiblility! Well done.

[Shazza]

Oh. I don't know really I guess anything is possible. I just found it interesting how much more she looks like Dawn than her own mother,
Tried to open the link but it wont let us in, so am unable to see what everyone is talking about, buy you are saying pretty much the same thing. It sounds quite odd that Madelaine looks like Murats wife and the similarities between his daughter and Madelaine, there sure is something fishy about that, or is it just coincidence.

[CarpeDiem]

Here's a pic of Maddie's Mom with the Pope and info on the visit:

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/8335/Tears+as+Maddy's+parents+meet+Pope

[Shazza]

Here's a pic of Maddie's Mom with the Pope and info on the visit:

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/8335/Tears+as+Maddy's+parents+meet+Pope
Obviously they believe enough in their religion to go to the pope and beg for mercy for the return of their daughter or to beg for forgiveness for the guilt they feel in their involvement in their daughters disappearance. But in my opinion I think it is just another publicity stunt.

[MoonGoddess]

Some very good photographs of the crime scene at this site:-

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/

click on images to enlarge!

Thankyou also Shazza:)

[Jeana (DP)]

The parents ARE at issue in this case, unlike most missing children cases, we're going to allow discussion about them. In the future, any questions should be directed to the moderators, who will be the ones to ask posters to stay on topic. Thanks ya'll.

[Shazza]

Some very good photographs of the crime scene at this site:-

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/

click on images to enlarge!

Thankyou also Shazza:)

No worries mate, what is the feeling and mood over in in the UK about the McCanns, and are you getting much media coverage and any updates on this case.

[petra]

Some very good photographs of the crime scene at this site:-

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/

click on images to enlarge!

Thankyou also Shazza:)

Thanks for the link MG-

Great pics and really clarifies the location of things.

All I can say is 'oh, no'....this is far different than i imagined from the initial reporting. This is beyond scary......................what where they thinking:furious:

JMO

[CarpeDiem]

Some very good photographs of the crime scene at this site:-

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/

click on images to enlarge!

Thankyou also Shazza:)

Great link! Thanks! Maddie was in the worst place possible for an abduction. She could have been out that window, carried over the waist high wall and put in a car in moments.

I'm appalled that there was no view of the apartment from the restaurant. It's just so sad that the kid's were put in such danger.

What an image too of the crowd of cameras as Kate walks right towards them with her toddler. Obviously the resort isn't letting the media and cameras inside.

[petra]

Wanted to add...I wouldn't stay in this room even if it was just me and a trained pit bull!!!!

If management showed me this room location, as my holiday stay--I would immediately be asked to be moved elsewhere!!!!

And with small little ones on the ground floor---opening on to the back street---NO friggin way!

JMO :crazy:

[englishleigh]

Am I the only one who thinks that Sofia and Maddie don't look alike?

I don't think Maddie and Sofia look that much alike...I think they could pass for sisters, maybe, but they aren't identical at ALL. I do think Maddie and Dawn look a great deal alike!!

[petra]

Great link! Thanks! Maddie was in the worst place possible for an abduction. She could have been out that window, carried over the waist high wall and put in a car in moments.

I'm appalled that there was no view of the apartment from the restaurant. It's just so sad that the kid's were put in such danger.

What an image too of the crowd of cameras as Kate walks right towards them with her toddler. Obviously the resort isn't letting the media and cameras inside.

CD-I too am just in shock over the room location.

I feel suckered from the first few weeks of media reporting and parent interviews.

[Jdee]

I had bookmarked that link with Dawn and Sofia and it won't pull up that way either. Really wierd. Wonder if the article was pulled?

[Jdee]

Film of the meeting with the Pope.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,91210-1268006,00.html

[Jdee]

One more.. I think they both look tired and drawn.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-1268146,.html

[Spazkat9696]

I wonder about this revenge theory. I wonder if one of the doctors lost a patient and the family was upset. Maybe they could not save their child so the family decided to take Maddy. Kind of a if you can't save my child I will take yours so you can see how it feels?

[kooldeedee]

Obviously they believe enough in their religion to go to the pope and beg for mercy for the return of their daughter or to beg for forgiveness for the guilt they feel in their involvement in their daughters disappearance. But in my opinion I think it is just another publicity stunt.

I think people that are religious turn to God in time of need. Prayer is the FIRST thing I would turn to if I were in this situation. The fact that the parents are receiving publicity for this is a bonus in keeping Madeleine's case in the news.

[CarpeDiem]

I feel suckered from the first few weeks of media reporting and parent interviews.

Me too Petra. I was on their side here in the first thread we had on the case. We were duped and suckered.:mad: The picture they painted in the beginning of the situation is so far from the reality. And they lied. It's awful!

[Jdee]

Carpediem... I am confused about what they lied about. Was it about how they checked on the kids? How was the lie exposed?

[CarpeDiem]

Yes, that they themselves were checking on the kids, that it was the first time they had done this (they had actually done it every night that week of their vacation), that the apartment could be seen from the restaurant (perhaps the building could but not the apartment), that the doors were locked, etc., etc.

I just read they didn't give an official statement to Portugal Magistrates until 5/14, once they secured lawyers, because they feared they would be prosecuted for their neglect.

[Jdee]

OK thanks.. Seems were quite a few lies were going around.

[mjak]

Yes, that they themselves were checking on the kids, that it was the first time they had done this (they had actually done it every night that week of their vacation), that the apartment could be seen from the restaurant (perhaps the building could but not the apartment), that the doors were locked, etc., etc.

I just read they didn't give an official statement to Portugal Magistrates until 5/14, once they secured lawyers, because they feared they would be prosecuted for their neglect.


Do you have any links for these statements. The reason I ask because if this is true it is a humungous red flag to me. If my child was legitamitly missing and I feared abducted I would tell the police absolutly everthing regarding the circumstnaces of my child when last scene irregardless of the consequences to myself. My only conern would be my childs wellbeing and to even try and protect myself from legal consequences at the cost of my childs safety is totally unconcionable to me.

mjak

[Salem]

I don't know how to quote messages yet, but will figure it out soon.

I think we should remain cautious about the "I just read they didn't give an official statement to Portugal Magistrates until 5/14, once they secured lawyers, because they feared they would be prosecuted for their neglect."

My thought is that they gave the police their story of what happened, but that the Port police did not "interview" them about any possible involvement until May 14th.

Also - do you think this is why they won't leave Portugal and go home. Because the laws are slacker? Even if they went home, if the parents' conduct was going to be prosecuted, it would have to happen in Portugal, because that is where the crime took place, right?

Salem

[Salem]

CarpeDiem - I really only meant to quote the "official statement part" also I didn't quite comprehend the "so they would not have to face charges" part.

Do you remember what paper this was from? They would not have to face charges in England for neglect because the crime did not happen there. They could face charges in England for fraud and maybe a few other things if it is determined they duped so many people into contributing money, etc. Interesting. When exactly did they "lawyer up" as someone calls it? I know it was very early on and I thought it was suspicious at the time.

Salem

[Jeana (DP)]

I don't know how to quote messages yet, but will figure it out soon.



Salem, there is a blue/grey button on the bottom right that says "QUOTE." Just click on that button and you'll be taken to a screen where you can just type under the message you want to reply to. One BIG favor for the moderators though. If the Quote is large, please edit it down to a smaller size before you reply. It will be a huge help as it saves us space and time!!

[MoonGoddess]

I had bookmarked that link with Dawn and Sofia and it won't pull up that way either. Really wierd. Wonder if the article was pulled?

I'm trying to link you into the mirror article:-

Try this:-

http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/tm_headline=my-life-with-&method=full&objectid=19205643&siteid=98487-name_page.html

I just tried it and it worked?

[MoonGoddess]

The parents ARE at issue in this case, unlike most missing children cases, we're going to allow discussion about them. In the future, any questions should be directed to the moderators, who will be the ones to ask posters to stay on topic. Thanks ya'll.


Thankyou:)

[luvbeaches]

I wish we just had some concrete facts to go on, everything so far is just supposition, we are no closer to finding out what happened to Madelaine now than we were over two weeks ago when she first went missing. I think the case is getting cold ( as much as I hate to say that), or we are not being told everything so that it doesnt jeopardise the safety and return of Madelaine.

I also think the case is getting cold. But who knows. It just makes me sick when children go missing. I hope they find her safe and sound. But as time goes on, I believe the chances of that happening grow smaller.

[Jdee]

MoonGoddess it still doesn't work. I think it is a technical issue on their end. I found another picture of Dawn where in it she did not look like Madeleine at all.

[luvbeaches]

Great link! Thanks! Maddie was in the worst place possible for an abduction. She could have been out that window, carried over the waist high wall and put in a car in moments.

I'm appalled that there was no view of the apartment from the restaurant. It's just so sad that the kid's were put in such danger.

That is a great link...the pictures really show you just how far away (and out of sight), the apartment is from the restaurant.

[MoonGoddess]

Carpediem... I am confused about what they lied about. Was it about how they checked on the kids? How was the lie exposed?

This is how the story was initially reported a couple of days after Madeleines disappearance:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/05/nmadel05.xml&page=1 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/05/nmadel05.xml&page=1)
Last Updated: 12:45am BST 07/05/2007
Page 1 of 3 < note there are 3 pages.

Here's a snippet and I think cover some of the inconsistencies

Trish Cameron, Mr McCann’s sister, said she received a telephone call from her 39-year-old brother, a consultant cardiologist, who was "hysterical and crying his eyes out".
She said: "They had put the kids to bed at 7pm and checked on them every half an hour as they had dinner nearby with the rest of the party. Gerry said the window was open, the shutters broken and the door, which had been locked, hanging open.
"Kate came screaming back to the group crying, 'They've taken her, they've taken her'. Gerry was crying and roaring like a bull.
..............
Jon Corner, a close friend of Mrs McCann and godparent of the twins, said she telephoned him in the middle of the night distraught.
He said: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.'
"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage.
"First they saw one of the window shutters had been forced, and then they saw the door was open and the bed was empty - and Madeleine was gone.

What started to emerge later on is:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=454466&in_page_id=1770

Until now, it was believed that shutters at the front of the apartment had been jemmied open by the little girl's abductors. But Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, spokesman for the investigation, has confided in British former Chief Inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor their shutters had been tampered with.

Mr Kirby, who led the investigation into the abduction and murder of Liverpool-born toddler Jamie Bulger, revealed that it was the unlocked patio doors of the apartment that allowed Madeleine to be taken away swiftly and quietly.


Gerry and Kate McCann would have used the patio doors as they checked on their daughter and her twin siblings during their meal near the Mark Warner holiday complex swimming pool and it is these doors that were left unsecured. The McCanns and all their friends on the holiday left their patio doors open throughout the evenings for fear of fire.


Mr Kirby told The Mail on Sunday: "I had a very interesting chat with the officer in charge. The window shutters are not an issue. "Their mechanism makes them almost impossible to open. The door was left unlocked. They did that every night.


This is just an example of some of the 'inconsistencies' but just posting this in order to maybe give you a better understanding.

Jdee - I pm'd you with possible alternative ways to get into the link (didnt want to waste more space on the forum) It contains a jpeg picture of Dawn and her daughter.

[MoonGoddess]

No worries mate, what is the feeling and mood over in in the UK about the McCanns, and are you getting much media coverage and any updates on this case.

Obviously todays 'visit' got airtime - but BBC didn't go with it as top news. It has died down, because it was causing a bit of a furore as to the amount of coverage that it was receiving and when respected reporters started to talk out (like the link I posted yesterday) they tend to just report 'developements'.........but there aren't any! - apart from the egghead with hair suspect they announced they are looking for a couple of days ago.

Anyway BB starts here in the UK this eve, that tends to dominate, especially after the publicity re the 'Shilpa Shetty' row:-

There's even going to be a 'police squad' monitoring events:rolleyes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=458340&in_page_id=1773


unless theres any major developements in the hunt for Madeleine, I think it will die down a bit.

:)

[philamena]

Maddy's parents look terrible.
I still don't understand how they arranged their meeting with the Pope. I thought that took a lot of clout and a lot of time.:confused:

[Morag]

Here's a bit about a Portugese legal procedure. The traveling friends have been questioned.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/tm_method=full%26objectid=19098536%26siteid=89520-name_page.html
Meanwhile, the Portuguese media yesterday reported that friends of the McCanns who were on holiday with them and stayed on to offer their support could take part in a special court hearing today or tomorrow.

The procedure - known as "memory for the future" - is similar to a mock trial in which the pals would give evidence as witnesses.

Lawyer Artur Rego said a judge would ask questions which could form part of a real trial one day.

He explained that such a private hearing was used only in exceptional cases - such as this where a large group of witnesses are foreign - adding: "It is recorded by video, kept sealed then released during the hearing if somebody is ever charged.

"It has the same value as witness statements delivered live at trial."


And this sounds as though there is some real belief that there is an Ocean Club connection (although the article is a couple of weeks old).
http://www.sundaymirror.co.uk/news/sunday/tm_method=full&objectid=19095658&siteid=98487-name_page.html

may have unwittingly come into contact with a "middle man" linked to Madeleine's abductor or abductors at the Ocean Club in Prai da Luz. A police source said: "They have all been questioned as potential witnesses."

Shopkeepers have been shown CCTV printouts of three people, including a man of about 40 with dark hair to his shoulders, a blonde woman of about 40 with a ponytail and an older woman. The three were clearly not Portuguese and "looked English".

This last paragraph makes me think of Murat's gf and her estranged husband with Murat's mother as the older woman. I don't know if the descriptions describe them, though.








--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
See what's free at AOL.com.

[CarpeDiem]

Do you remember what paper this was from? They would not have to face charges in England for neglect because the crime did not happen there. They could face charges in England for fraud and maybe a few other things if it is determined they duped so many people into contributing money, etc. Interesting. When exactly did they "lawyer up" as someone calls it? I know it was very early on and I thought it was suspicious at the time.

Salem

mjak asked about this too. The link also has video on right that is pertinent:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1265436,00.html

[CarpeDiem]

Maddy's parents look terrible.
I still don't understand how they arranged their meeting with the Pope. I thought that took a lot of clout and a lot of time.:confused:

I agree they look terrible, most especially Kate, whom barely looks like the same person in the professional family photograph we have seen that was taken some time ago when the twins were smaller.

Here is some info on how the meeting with the Pope was arranged.

http://news.lycos.co.uk/uk/070527181327.gdvr0ave.xml.html

[Morag]

This sounds like a real lead! Of course, it could be that the girl is his child and he might have been taking pictures of all the children on the beach.


http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1265436,00.html

The strongest lead police have involves a blonde woman and two men who were captured on CCTV at a petrol station near Praia da Luz with a girl matching Madeliene's description.

One of these men was reported to have been seen taking photos of children on a nearby beach a couple of days before she disappeared on May 3.

Madeleine and her siblings are believed to have been amongst those he photographed.

[missacorah]

A TOP psychic will travel to Portugal today to join the hunt for Madeleine McCann.

Diane Lazarus, 40, has already helped cops with high-profile cases including the murders of Jill Dando and little Sarah Payne.

In an exclusive interview mum-of-two Diane from Crosshands, South Wales, told The Sun online:

- Maddie was targeted after being secretly watched by her abductors, including one woman

- She is in Spain after travelling by car on main roads from Portugal and is being well looked after

- One of the culprits has olive skin, dark hair and a drawn, skinny face

Diane said: “I don’t think Madeleine is in Portugal and they have kept moving her around.

“I hope going to Praia da Luz will give me the leads to where exactly she went from there. I feel she could be in Spain.

“I have also picked up that they cut Maddie’s hair and made her look like a boy.”

Once in Praia da Luz, Diane will ‘tune in’ on a map of the area around the Mark Warner holiday complex and a snapshot of missing Maddie.

Diane said: “I need to start from the beginning and be where it all happened.

“Quite honestly I don’t think Madeleine has come to any harm. She will be returned to her mummy and daddy.

“I feel there are a few people, including a woman, involved in the disappearance.


http://images.thesun.co.uk/picture/0,,2007241460,00.jpgPsychic ... Diane's autobiography


“They went out of their way to get a girl of a certain age. They also knew Madeleine had a brother and sister, Sean and Amelie.

“They felt as the McCanns have two other children taking Maddie wouldn't be quite so bad.

“I don’t think the culprits are British. I thought the prime suspect Robert Murat was innocent from day one.

“I can sense this involves some foreign blood.”

Diane will spend four days on the Algarve after being invited by a close friend of Gerry and Kate McCann, both 38.

The renowned psychic hopes to link up with the devastated parents – who have an audience with Pope Benedict later today – but will be careful not to offend their Catholic faith.

Diane said: “I would never go to Portugal without the consent of the family.

"Hundreds of people have contacted me to see if I could help.

“Even Bonnie Tyler, who is one of my best clients, has been in touch.

“I will have to be careful not to ruffle feathers with the Portugese police because I don’t know how they feel about psychics.

“I’ll be very mindful of the McCanns too. They’ve prayed a lot for Madeleine's return which is great.

“Prayer really does work. Everyone should say a prayer for Maddie’s safe return.”

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007240619,00.html

[kooldeedee]

"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage.
"First they saw one of the window shutters had been forced, and then they saw the door was open and the bed was empty - and Madeleine was gone.

What started to emerge later on is:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=454466&in_page_id=1770

Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, spokesman for the investigation, has confided in British former Chief Inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor their shutters had been tampered with.

Mr Kirby, revealed that it was the unlocked patio doors of the apartment that allowed Madeleine to be taken away swiftly and quietly.


The McCanns and all their friends on the holiday left their patio doors open throughout the evenings for fear of fire.


Mr Kirby told The Mail on Sunday: "I had a very interesting chat with the officer in charge. The window shutters are not an issue. "Their mechanism makes them almost impossible to open. The door was left unlocked. They did that every night.


What I don't understand is if there was no sign of forced entry how come everything we've read points to an abduction. I've never read anything that even hinted to the possibility that Madeleine could have wandered off. There has to be something obvious that makes the authorities believe she was abducted. I just think there is too much misinformation being communicated.

[CarpeDiem]

missacorah, that's interesting. Atleast they didn't go with Sylvia Brown whom botches so many of her readings and often says the subject is dead, as was the case with Shawn Hornbeck.

[Jdee]

What I don't understand is if there was no sign of forced entry how come everything we've read points to an abduction. I've never read anything that even hinted to the possibility that Madeleine could have wandered off. There has to be something obvious that makes the authorities believe she was abducted. I just think there is too much misinformation being communicated.

I agree.. I heard on Nancy Grace the door was 'jimmied' open. So I am wondering if it was in fact locked...? And the bit about them leaving it open 'in case of fire' sounds lame to me. Children asleep normally do not wake up during a fire in the room. I had a 3 year old great niece who died in her bed in a house fire.
It makes no sense to me that they would leave the door unlocked 'in case of fire' yet it never crossed their minds that their children could wander out or be stolen by kidnappers??? Something doesn't jive here.

[Jdee]

“I have also picked up that they cut Maddie’s hair and made her look like a boy.”


I said this from the beginning and have wondered why they have not shown altered pictures of her with different hair color and looking like a boy.

[Sundayrain]

Not sure if this story got on here. But, the parents had time with the Pope today. They gave him Maddies picture, and asked for his prayers.
They were in the front row of a huge crowd. ( It was just a short segment)
I hope the Prayers of the Pope .........will bring them the answers to finding Maddie.

[Pinkhammer]

Some very good photographs of the crime scene at this site:-

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/

click on images to enlarge!

Thankyou also Shazza:)

Thanks to both of you for the link.

There's no way in Hades that the Group of Eight Child Neglectors could have watched their children's rooms from that Tapas restaurante.

Such stupid people...all doctors!!! TG I don't live in the UK, and don't have to depend upon such dolts for my medical care.

[philamena]

I agree they look terrible, most especially Kate, whom barely looks like the same person in the professional family photograph we have seen that was taken some time ago when the twins were smaller.

Here is some info on how the meeting with the Pope was arranged.

http://news.lycos.co.uk/uk/070527181327.gdvr0ave.xml.html

CarpeDiem,
Thanks so much for the info. You're so helpful providing references for this case. :clap:

[dingo]

“I have also picked up that they cut Maddie’s hair and made her look like a boy.”


I said this from the beginning and have wondered why they have not shown altered pictures of her with different hair color and looking like a boy.Madelines eye is going to be hard to disguise.

[philamena]

Madelines eye is going to be hard to disguise.

It may not be so hard to disguise though dingo. I was at a Beauty Supply store yesterday and they sale non prescription contacts in different colors.

[dingo]

Thats a thought Philmena...I just wondering now that after all the media coverage about Madelines eye if maybe she has been made to wear contacts.....that is if the poor little mite is still with us:(

[mjak]

This is how the story was initially reported a couple of days after Madeleines disappearance:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/05/nmadel05.xml&page=1 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/05/nmadel05.xml&page=1)
Last Updated: 12:45am BST 07/05/2007
Page 1 of 3 < note there are 3 pages.

Here's a snippet and I think cover some of the inconsistencies

Trish Cameron, Mr McCann’s sister, said she received a telephone call from her 39-year-old brother, a consultant cardiologist, who was "hysterical and crying his eyes out".
She said: "They had put the kids to bed at 7pm and checked on them every half an hour as they had dinner nearby with the rest of the party. Gerry said the window was open, the shutters broken and the door, which had been locked, hanging open.
"Kate came screaming back to the group crying, 'They've taken her, they've taken her'. Gerry was crying and roaring like a bull.
..............
Jon Corner, a close friend of Mrs McCann and godparent of the twins, said she telephoned him in the middle of the night distraught.
He said: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.'
"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage.
"First they saw one of the window shutters had been forced, and then they saw the door was open and the bed was empty - and Madeleine was gone.

What started to emerge later on is:-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=454466&in_page_id=1770

Until now, it was believed that shutters at the front of the apartment had been jemmied open by the little girl's abductors. But Chief Inspector Olegario Sousa, spokesman for the investigation, has confided in British former Chief Inspector Albert Kirby that neither the windows nor their shutters had been tampered with.

Mr Kirby, who led the investigation into the abduction and murder of Liverpool-born toddler Jamie Bulger, revealed that it was the unlocked patio doors of the apartment that allowed Madeleine to be taken away swiftly and quietly.


Gerry and Kate McCann would have used the patio doors as they checked on their daughter and her twin siblings during their meal near the Mark Warner holiday complex swimming pool and it is these doors that were left unsecured. The McCanns and all their friends on the holiday left their patio doors open throughout the evenings for fear of fire.


Mr Kirby told The Mail on Sunday: "I had a very interesting chat with the officer in charge. The window shutters are not an issue. "Their mechanism makes them almost impossible to open. The door was left unlocked. They did that every night.


This is just an example of some of the 'inconsistencies' but just posting this in order to maybe give you a better understanding.

Jdee - I pm'd you with possible alternative ways to get into the link (didnt want to waste more space on the forum) It contains a jpeg picture of Dawn and her daughter.


Wow this is just unbelievable.
mjak

[SieSie]

“I have also picked up that they cut Maddie’s hair and made her look like a boy.”


I said this from the beginning and have wondered why they have not shown altered pictures of her with different hair color and looking like a boy.
I know they have professionals and programs that can do this, but since we haven't seen anything, I messed around with my Photoshop and came up with these "altered" images, in case her hair is shorter or darker.

Original Pic:
http://i17.tinypic.com/6gtga5g.jpg


I "shortened" the hair by using "smudge" and "clone":
http://i18.tinypic.com/4ly4cv5.jpg


I made the hair darker, "smudging" the natural darkness from the top of her head, down - giving more "bangs", also:
http://i18.tinypic.com/5xiotb4.jpg

Really makes me wish I had the software to do this kind of thing, my examples are awful, but you get the idea that she could definitely be made to look different with shorter, darker hair.

[philamena]

Thats a thought Philmena...I just wondering now that after all the media coverage about Madelines eye if maybe she has been made to wear contacts.....that is if the poor little mite is still with us:(

dingo,
I hope and pray she's still alive. She's been gone a long time though.:(
28 days right?

[philamena]

I know they have professionals and programs that can do this, but since we haven't seen anything, I messed around with my Photoshop and came up with these "altered" images, in case her hair is shorter or darker.

Original Pic:
http://i17.tinypic.com/6gtga5g.jpg


I "shortened" the hair by using "smudge" and "clone":
http://i18.tinypic.com/4ly4cv5.jpg


I made the hair darker, "smudging" the natural darkness from the top of her head, down - giving more "bangs", also:
http://i18.tinypic.com/5xiotb4.jpg

Really makes me wish I had the software to do this kind of thing, my examples are awful, but you get the idea that she could definitely be made to look different with shorter, darker hair.

Sie,Sie,
What a great job. Maybe a law enforcement agency will see your work.
It really enabled me to see exactly how Maddy would look with shorter, darker hair.

[dingo]

dingo,
I hope and pray she's still alive. She's been gone a long time though.:(
28 days right?It has been a long time Philmena and each day makes it harder to believe shes still alive:banghead:
Im still saying a prayer for her though.....maybe this story will have better outcome then what we are used too.

[dingo]

Thankyou SieSie for the effort you have put into the pictures..it really does show how easily her appearance could be changed.

[Salem]

Salem, there is a blue/grey button on the bottom right that says "QUOTE." Just click on that button and you'll be taken to a screen where you can just type under the message you want to reply to. One BIG favor for the moderators though. If the Quote is large, please edit it down to a smaller size before you reply. It will be a huge help as it saves us space and time!!

Thank you Jeana! :)

[Salem]

mjak asked about this too. The link also has video on right that is pertinent:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1265436,00.html (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1265436,00.html)


Thank you for this link CarpeDiem :) ! The explanation about why they might hire attorneys was enlightening. Especially when it was said that they (McCanns) would probably like to have them when they were interviewed.

I am trying not to be too judgmental. I suppose if I was in a foreign country and did not understand the legal system, I would want to have someone with me that did understand. I mean the whole investigation process is unlike anything I am used to, here in the states and it sounds like it is different from what happens in the UK also.

And I agree, the parents do look tired.

[Salem]

Anyway BB starts here in the UK this eve, that tends to dominate, especially after the publicity re the 'Shilpa Shetty' row:-

There's even going to be a 'police squad' monitoring events:rolleyes:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=458340&in_page_id=1773

:)


--snippet--

Mr Kirby believes Portuguese police will solve the case of the missing toddler within days. He said: "I am impressed by