MO-Kara Kopetsky

[MissieMt]

Missing since May 4,2007 from Belton Missouri

We figured she needs a thread now. Here are some links to get this started.
http://www.findkarakopetsky.com/

http://www.myspace.com/findkarakopetsky (http://www.myspace.com/findkarakopetsky)

[chicoliving]

The parents of a missing teenager are asking for help finding their daughter.

Kara Kopetsky, 17, disappeared on May 4. Her mother, Rhonda Beckford, said nothing seemed to be wrong the day she vanished.

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/13319870/detail.html

[chicoliving]

Belton police are trying to identify an individual who reportedly was seen with a missing teenager. Kara Kopetsky last was seen May 4 at school. Police think she might have been spotted last week at a store and fast-food restaurant in Louisburg, Kan. Police showed a photo of Kopetsky to three employees, and they agreed that she was the person they saw. Police have released a composite sketch of a teenage male they think was with her and are asking anyone with information to call the Belton Police Department at 816-331-1500 or the Tips Hotline at 816-474-TIPS (474-8477).

http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/120413.html

[chicoliving]

Court documents reveal accusations of kidnapping and a restraining order against the ex-boyfriend of a missing Belton teen. "The cops have already done a lie-detector test and, if you want, ask them about that record," says 18-year-old Kylr Yust, the missing girl's ex-boyfriend.

Police confirm he did pass a lie-detector test in connection with Kara Kopetsky's disappearance and say he has an alibi. He was not in Belton when the 17-year-old disappeared.

Police say he has cooperated throughout the investigation.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18631816/

[Lurker]

I still think they should keep Tim Miller and Co in the search area where they found Kelsey..

The suspect in Kara's disappearance looks like the guy arrested for Kelsey's abduction and murder. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't his first time.

[chicoliving]

FNC is covering this now. Her ATM hasn't been used in a month, no contact with anyone. Everything the same in her bedroom at home including an almost full carton of cigs which her mother points out.

[chicoliving]

In the midst of the Kelsey Smith abduction and homicide investigation, police mentioned another missing teen on Wednesday.

Kara Kopetsky, 17, of Belton, Mo., disappeared on May 4.

Police said they have no reason to believe Kopetsky's disappearance is related to Smith's case.

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/13457510/detail.html

[chicoliving]

~snip~

Kara was last seen on the morning of May 2 at her high school, Beckford said. Kara had called her mother that morning to ask her to bring her history textbook to school and to wash her work uniform. But she never arrived at work that afternoon.

Kara was reported spotted at an an area gas station in Lewisburg, Mo., on May 4, the same day her cell phone and debit card were last used.

~snip~

Belton police said they were not ruling out a connection between the Kara's disappearance and Smith's murder.

"I’m not going to discount the possibility these cases are connected … but I can’t draw that conclusion at this point," Overland Park Police Chief John Douglass told reporters Wednesday.

Police notified the Beckfords on Wednesday that the body they found was not their daughter.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,279088,00.html

In Kara's case her cell and ATM were used two days after she was first missing. No mention of the area the cell or ATM were used though. Just not much info from the few media reports at all.

[MissieMt]

This raises some questions. I wonder if her parents think, or did think, she ran away. If her cell and atm were used two days afterwards, did they get video of it being used?
I find it very telling that she has been gone for a month and has not contacted anyone, I don't think if she left of her own free will this would be the case.

[chicoliving]

Belton Police said phone records indicate a missing teenager's cell phone has been turned off since the day of her disappearance. Her parents said there is no indication their daughter planned to leave.
When her mother walked into Kara Kopetsky's bedroom, nothing was missing.

"Her dresser is full," Rhonda Beckford said Thursday as she opened one of her daughter's dresser drawers.

None of her clothes are gone, and her iPod and phone charger are on a bedroom table, something the 17-year-old's mother said Kara would never leave behind.

"If this was planned, she would have taken clothes and she didn't," Beckford said while holding a missing poster of her daughter. "If she had to buy clothes, she would have had to use her debit card, and she didn't."

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=7B5A10AB-66FF-4690-90CD-EBAEC104EEE2&gsa=true

[chicoliving]

In reading some of the articles there's either May 2 or May 4 as the last day she was seen. I'm gonna go with May 4 since that is what is on her website. I've been looking for a link to print the flyer but haven't run across a link yet.

[RKnowley]

There is a link to a flyer for Kara on the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children website.

Here is the link to her info:
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&LanguageCountry=en_US&searchLang=en_US&caseLang=en_US&orgPrefix=NCMC&caseNum=1072327&seqNum=1


Here is the link to her flyer:
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=1072327&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US

In reading some of the articles there's either May 2 or May 4 as the last day she was seen. I'm gonna go with May 4 since that is what is on her website. I've been looking for a link to print the flyer but haven't run across a link yet.

[chicoliving]

There is a link to a flyer for Kara on the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children website.

Here is the link to her info:
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&LanguageCountry=en_US&searchLang=en_US&caseLang=en_US&orgPrefix=NCMC&caseNum=1072327&seqNum=1


Here is the link to her flyer:
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=1072327&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US

Thank you so much!

[MissieMt]

ugh-wonder who did this one,hmmmm? Sorry-trying not to assume.

[SeriouslySearching]

This girl looks a lot like Kara. http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=122630903

[nanandjim]

This girl looks a lot like Kara. http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=122630903

Please, would someone else click on this link and tell me if you just see a pair of lips??

[chicoliving]

Please, would someone else click on this link and tell me if you just see a pair of lips??

I see a pic of a young lady on the left and to the right of that a smaller pic of a nice set of lips :)

[SuziQ]

Ok, I going to start with Kara's Thread by reposting my observations about Kara's case so far. I had originally posted this on the Kelsey thread alot earlier today:

There's a few things about Kara that I'm reading in the media that is confusing and not true that I can tell. First is LE never said Kara and Kelsey's cases are not linked. What LE has said is that they have no links at this time and will be using current resources in place to look for Kara. Yipee! Fox reported that Kara was spotted with the suspect in the sketch last Thursday. That's also not true. The original article posting the sketch was on May 23rd and that article stated it was a couple of weeks earlier that the sighting happened. Now that would make it around the time Kara vanished. Witnesses most time don't remember exact days and time. And the sighting could very well be from the day Kara went missing. Now the thing that really upsets me is, how frustrating for Kara's parents. They couldn't get local LE or anyone to listen to them. Kara was brushed aside as a runaway. Now hopefully, things will change!

[fran]

Maybe they should check Kara's computer? If they haven't already. :doh: Since they thought she was a run away, maybe they didn't bother.

JMHO
fran

[pedinurse]

is it just me or is it weird that the composite is supposed to be of a male "about 19 years old."
don't they usually say late teens to early twenties?

i do think it looks like the dude in custody for the smith case. look at that schnoze (nose)!

[pedinurse]

Maybe they should check Kara's computer? If they haven't already. :doh: Since they thought she was a run away, maybe they didn't bother.

JMHO
fran
yup, any teenage girl who looks emo must be a runaway (whatever). LE can be really frusterating in cases where they insist these girls / boys are runaways. THey just don't have the time (they feel i think) to search for kids who "want to be lost".

[Salem]

i do think it looks like the dude in custody for the smith case. look at that schnoze (nose)!

OMG - yes he does. Take a look at that composite, thin the hair on the sides and add a goatee. And the eyes. Kinda dark and hooded. Very similar to the picture of the KS perp coming out of Target.

I hope the KS perp confesses to everything he has ever done. His MO is very similar to the one used in the JK case and his picture is very similar to the composite here. Very scary. Except if it is him, then it is reassuring to know he has been caught and he probably does not stand a chance in you know where to post 10% on 5 mil for bond (and if he does, I'm sure they will revoke any bail amount).

Salem

[SuziQ]

OMG - yes he does. Take a look at that composite, thin the hair on the sides and add a goatee. And the eyes. Kinda dark and hooded. Very similar to the picture of the KS perp coming out of Target.

I hope the KS perp confesses to everything he has ever done. His MO is very similar to the one used in the JK case and his picture is very similar to the composite here. Very scary. Except if it is him, then it is reassuring to know he has been caught and he probably does not stand a chance in you know where to post 10% on 5 mil for bond (and if he does, I'm sure they will revoke any bail amount).

Salem

What is the JK case?

[SuziQ]

Oh nevermind, Jennifer Kesse (sp) from Florida?

[MissieMt]

Thank you for posting all of that SuziQ. I hope we can start to learn more about Kara's case. I think I will email the people running findkarakopetsky and let them know that we have started a thread. Hopefully we can get some more "local" input

[MissieMt]

I could not find an email address on her sight, but I have sent a message to the person who is running findkarakopetsky through Myspace.

[mom3dd]

yup, any teenage girl who looks emo must be a runaway (whatever). LE can be really frusterating in cases where they insist these girls / boys are runaways. THey just don't have the time (they feel i think) to search for kids who "want to be lost". And kids "want to be lost" shouldn't be encouraged.

My dd ranaway at 15 was hidden out by bf and my inlaws they thought it was entertaining. If there are no consequences for people helping teens run and disobey their parents these perverts can continue to get away with murder. You don't know if they are runaways or not so it helps out the bad guys there are way to many "runaways" that havent been seen in years I don't think the majority of them are alive I think they have been killed and thrown away.Which means alot more "normal" looking killers out there. The only reason they were so quick on Kelseys is because her dad is a retired policeman. My dd was supposedly seen at the walmart and we couldn't get the pictures and police wouldn't follow up. We felt she was at the bf but the police said no he says she's not there. Yeah right.

[MissieMt]

mom3dd-I think you have some very valid points! I was just talking to my husband about how a lot of "runaways" are never heard from again, or are found dead. I agree that the cops looked harder for Kelsey than normal, but I don't fault them for it. My reasons are because 1. If you have a co-worker or close friend whose child goes missing, odds are you are going to utilize every resource you have to try to help bring that child home and 2. it was very obvious from the start that she was not a runaway, and sadly, those are the cases that get more attention. I wish all runaways, and abductions had equal attention, but that isn't how it is.
Did your daughter ever make it back home?
Now, it's time we give Kara the attention she deserves

[mom3dd]

I am not faulting the police it is a fact of our society. Yes we got her back 3 months and lots of $ later hired PD. I am just angry for lots of reasons. My dd was hidden from us.No charges in our case. The Conn girl 15 was hidden from her family for a year. (brainwashing does happen yes your parents are mean heres another beer or joint aren't we wonderful to you) All the long term missing endangered runaways, just plain missing, Kelsey (should never of happened can not even comprehend why it did) Kara deserved more attention from the get go. My mom said these depraved people were always out there just didn't hear about it world smaller etc but with TV and Internet I honestly think they are sicker and more brazen?

[MissieMt]

I agree, my husband was trying to tell me it happened just as much 100 years ago we just didn't hear about it then. That's wrong IMO.
My sister was a "runaway" 17 years ago, with many suspicious people involved, but even today she is listed as a runaway. It's sickening. I'm praying that things move swiftly now for Kara's family, just so they have answers if nothing else.

[MissieMt]

The Beckfords said Kara had called the morning she disappeared asking her mother to wash her work clothes because she had to be at work at 4 p.m.

She also left behind her debit card. Her checking account has not been touched. No calls had been placed on her cell phone since the morning she disappeared, so her phone records were no help, unlike the Smith case, where police were able to track signals from her phone to the general area where her body was found.

"I'm trying to clear up confusion that she was a runaway," Mrs. Beckford said. "We had not argued. She had no reason not to come home. ... We had normal teenager parent conflicts, but we were always able to talk it out."


http://www.kctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6625986

[chicoliving]

No link has been established between the disappearance of Smith and that of Kara Kopetsky, 17, who was last seen at Belton High School, blocks from her home, on the morning of May 4.

But Belton police Capt. Don Spears said two Belton detectives are assigned to work with investigators on the Smith case.

He said Belton police were examining evidence at the home of Edwin R. Hall, 26, who was charged Thursday with kidnap and murder in Smith's death and is being held on $5 million bond. Belton police were also considering an additional search of the wooded area where Smith's body was found, which is about six miles north of Kopetsky's home.

Smith and Kopetsky did not know each other and did not have any friends in common, Spears said.

He said his office has received about 25 new tips on Kopetsky's disappearance since Monday, two days after Smith was abducted from the Target parking lot. None of those tips have been helpful, however.

http://www.kctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6625986

[chicoliving]

It's been more than a month since a Belton family has heard from its teenage daughter.

Kara Kopetsky, 17, disappeared on May 4. She was last seen on surveillance video in her high school hallway.

Relatives said there are no apparent clues as to her whereabouts.

~snip~

There have been rumors that Kopetsky ran away. However, her parents said Kopetsky hasn't touched her bank account, she hasn't used her cell phone and she didn't take any clothes.

"There has been no contact with family or any friends. She hasn't accessed her MySpace account -- it's like she's disappeared," said Jim Beckford, Kopetsky's stepfather.

Several weeks ago, there was a possible sighting of the teen in Louisburg, Kan., but nothing definitive has come of it.

~snip~

Kopetsky's friends said they're going to mount a search on Sunday.

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/13470960/detail.html


I hope the friends get lots of help for the search.

[LionRun]

Kara called her mother to ask her to wash her uniform for work. So unless she suddenly decided to run away with nothing but the clothes on her back some time just that day, it seems she most likely did not run away. Either that or she was so cunning she asked her Mom to wash her uniform so that her mother would not suspect anything was up. I really doubt that. She didn't take her debit card--not very good planning if she ran away. She didn't take a nearly full carton of cigarettes. I am sad to hear that she smoked, especially being so young. The point is she would most likely not have left a nearly full carton of cigarettes behind if she ran away. Actually, I don't even understand why she was classified as a runaway. What am I missing?

Was her runaway status determined by default? There was no other evidence to be found so therefor she must have runaway? If that is the case than we need to change that way of thinking. It just doesn't work, and it is not logical. And, even if she did run away, she could still be in danger as many runaways can be.

I feel so sad for her family. They seemed so distraught and in pain when I saw them interviewed. I hope and pray that dear Kara is found and that the truth of what happened to her is discovered. I feel the chances of her being found alive are grim, and I hate to even say that. But, her loving family needs to know either way as hard as that is. There is no such thing as closure victims of murdered family members say. And, I believe that. But, if she has been killed, her family needs to know. And, if someone killed that dear girl, then the killer needs to face justice and be away from society forever.

It is possible that Hall is responsible for her disappearance. I think there are great similarities between the sketch and his pic. And, I am glad that LE is now actively searching for Kara, or it seems that way. It may or may not be Hall, but I do hope she is found soon.

Lion

[MissieMt]

Thank you for your input Lion-I totally agree! Her poster on the ncmec says "lost,injured,missing" for case type. I wonder if it has always been that way or was recently updated.
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=1072327&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

[nanandjim]

I see a pic of a young lady on the left and to the right of that a smaller pic of a nice set of lips :)

I now see the young lady. I swear that the photo was not there before (at least for me). Yes, she does resemble Kara.

[arielilane]

It is possible that Hall is responsible for her disappearance. I think there are great similarities between the sketch and his pic. And, I am glad that LE is now actively searching for Kara, or it seems that way. It may or may not be Hall, but I do hope she is found soon.

LionI agree. The sketch of the suspect linked to Kara looks so much like the nut case Hall. I hope LE is truly trying to resolve Kara's case...so tragic for her family. It doesn't seem to me from what I have read she was a runaway (even if she was, doesn't matter).
Prayers for Kara and family.

[PrayersForMaura]

Kara looks so much like Hillary Swank.
I pray she is found soon.

[SuziQ]

Thank you for posting all of that SuziQ. I hope we can start to learn more about Kara's case. I think I will email the people running findkarakopetsky and let them know that we have started a thread. Hopefully we can get some more "local" input

Now that is a great idea, thanks! And I think I'm going to post in the Kelsey thread that they crosspost any info, links, etc. to here.

[SuziQ]

One thing that I noticed about Kara's myspace is that her friends started almost immediately posting as if she met with foul play and accused Kylr of being responsible. There is a heated discussion about it in the comments section. Even her friends never thought she was a runaway. And a friend of Kara's mom had blog that fingerpointed Kylr also. Given Kara and Kylr's past problems. That would be a natural assumption. However, LE seems to have cleared him.

I can't find Kara's myspace page now. Can someone link it for me? Thanks! And I would really like to find the page for the blog accusing Kylr of being involved.

[LionRun]

One thing that I noticed about Kara's myspace is that her friends started almost immediately posting as if she met with foul play and accused Kylr of being responsible. There is a heated discussion about it in the comments section. Even her friends never thought she was a runaway. And a friend of Kara's mom had blog that fingerpointed Kylr also. Given Kara and Kylr's past problems. That would be a natural assumption. However, LE seems to have cleared him.

I can't find Kara's myspace page now. Can someone link it for me? Thanks! And I would really like to find the page for the blog accusing Kylr of being involved.

I can fully understand why Kara's friends and perhaps her family thought that her ex bf abducted her. I read in the beginning of this thread that there were court records and documentation of kidnapping and a restraining order. At that time there were no other similar disappearance of young girls in that area. The ex bf past the polygraph, which says a lot to me.

I trust that if the test is given by someone qualified, the results can be quite conclusive--even though they cannot be used in court. No one can be forced to take a polygraph. The fact that he did and past it means he really may have had nothing to do with her disappearance. But, we cannot be sure, and it is still possible. I think the key thing here is that we rule out nothing unless or until we have facts to substantiate it. If we let feelings get in the way, we can make mistakes in judgement.

Lion

[MissieMt]

http://www.myspace.com/melonmout08 (http://www.myspace.com/melonmouth08)

[Indy Gal]

Mypost from kelseys



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this is something I found...dont kill me I didnt write it but this comment stuck out to me

you are exactly right b/c i have a friend in Kansas that works in the DA's office and actually there are probably atleast 3 more girls that he has been stalking in the area but all of the details are about to unfold unfortunately. i would like to hope that kara just ran away but it doesn't look good now that he was finally caught after one of his STALKS went bad on tape at target. thank god for this guy's neighbor for CARING and making the call to capture the suspect and thank god for target. he just got desperate and his sick fantasies got out of control, and that also makes me think that there are many more victims. all that i can say is ted bundy and that is how he got caught.

i took out the name, I thought that was best as this person has nothing to do with the case. but half way down in the comments
__________________

[SeriouslySearching]

. She didn't take a nearly full carton of cigarettes. I am sad to hear that she smoked, especially being so young. The point is she would most likely not have left a nearly full carton of cigarettes behind if she ran away. Actually, I don't even understand why she was classified as a runaway. What am I missing?

Lion

I was actually going to ask if she smoked!! I knew she just didn't disappear from the school hallway (last place they say she was seen)! I figured out earlier today that between 2nd and 3rd hour would have been about the time a smoker would want one. Every High School has a "smoking hole" where kids sneak off to smoke without being noticed. I would say this is where or near her abduction took place. Nowadays, I would say that would be off campus since tobacco is forbidden on school property. This is also why she didn't take her phone or her atm card. She wasn't counting on being gone longer than perhaps ten minutes. (I do happen to think she was abducted and didn't run away.)

Another thought I had is if this girl was smoking pot. (Not judging here) If she went out to get high, she most likely would have been meeting someone to smoke with. I keep thinking someone saw her after the "hallway" sighting and that person doesn't want to come forward because they were smoking pot...don't want to get into trouble for it etc. So they aren't saying what they actually know. It could also lead to another scenario of meeting someone who was to give her a joint from outside of the people at school.

There have been no mention of drugs from Edwin Hall, but I have my own suspicions he smoked. This would have been a good way for him to have gotten her in his truck or car without causing a scene. She wouldn't have thought about it if they were just going to ride around to get high. He could have met her while she was at work at Popeyes easily and set up such a meeting.

Would it do any good for the dogs to try to trail her from there?

The only reason she is classified as a runaway is because there is no sign of abduction.

[Indy Gal]

I was actually going to ask if she smoked!! I knew she just didn't disappear from the school hallway (last place they say she was seen)! I figured out earlier today that between 2nd and 3rd hour would have been about the time a smoker would want one. Every High School has a "smoking hole" where kids sneak off to smoke without being noticed. I would say this is where or near her abduction took place. Nowadays, I would say that would be off campus since tobacco is forbidden on school property. This is also why she didn't take her phone or her atm card. She wasn't counting on being gone longer than perhaps ten minutes. (I do happen to think she was abducted and didn't run away.)

Another thought I had is if this girl was smoking pot. (Not judging here) If she went out to get high, she most likely would have been meeting someone to smoke with. I keep thinking someone saw her after the "hallway" sighting and that person doesn't want to come forward because they were smoking pot...don't want to get into trouble for it etc. So they aren't saying what they actually know. It could also lead to another scenario of meeting someone who was to give her a joint from outside of the people at school.

There have been no mention of drugs from Edwin Hall, but I have my own suspicions he smoked. This would have been a good way for him to have gotten her in his truck or car without causing a scene. She wouldn't have thought about it if they were just going to ride around to get high. He could have met her while she was at work at Popeyes easily and set up such a meeting.

Would it do any good for the dogs to try to trail her from there?

The only reason she is classified as a runaway is because there is no sign of abduction yet in LE's eyes. No one saw her being taken and they have no proof of such activity taking place.
Great point. I must read up more on this case!!

[philamena]

http://www.kctv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6625986

I'm more convinced than ever that Kara didn't run away. Her leaving her ATM card at home and it not being used is one sure sign imo. Unfortunately, I think she met with harm, possibly at the hand of Kelsey's murderer. I only wish Kara 's safe return. If she's not alive, I hope and pray she will be found for her families sake.

[Indy Gal]

I'm more convinced than ever that Kara didn't run away. Her leaving her ATM card at home and it not being used is one sure sign imo. Unfortunately, I think she met with harm, possibly at the hand of Kelsey's murderer. I only wish Kara 's safe return. If she's not alive, I hope and pray she will be found for her families sake.
Are they still searching where Kelsey was found, for Kara? The cops seem to have played this off as she ran away. Poor Kara, I dont think she just took off.Come Home Safe Honey

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, they have two Belton investigators now working with LE in Kelsey's case to try to find the connection. However, I don't think they will find any real connection unless they can get evidence from his vehicle/home or he slips up in some way during an interview about Kara. The family has also renewed searches, as I understand it and this weekend there were several.

They need to put Kara's case into overdrive and develop more leads while things are still hot in Kelsey's case. It seems this has put Kara in the spotlight for the time being and they can move forward with searching in the right areas now. People passed Kara off as a runaway and now are finally realizing it may not be the case.

[philamena]

I found this as a latest article update.
http://www.ktiv.com/News/index.php?ID=13876
Police Investigate Hall's Role In Another Teen Disapearance

A former Siouxland resident, accused of kidnapping and killing a Kansas teenager, could be connected to the disappearance of another girl.

Edwin Hall lived in Sioux City at 805 Rustin Street in 2002. Records show he also at one time lived on Hayden Street in Walthill, Nebraska.
SNIPPET

And now authorities in Belton, Missouri are trying to figure out if he kidnapped 17 year old Kara Kopetsky, who was last seen on May fourth.

Kopetsky's home is located about six miles from the woods where Smith's body was found on Wednesday.

[philamena]

....
They need to put Kara's case into overdrive and develop more leads while things are still hot in Kelsey's case. It seems this has put Kara in the spotlight for the time being and they can move forward with searching in the right areas now. People passed Kara off as a runaway and now are finally realizing it may not be the case.

Absolutely. It's a shame that a teenaged girl's missing claim is seen as being a runaway. How ludicrous. You're right, Kara's case needs to be gone over with a fine tooth comb.

We have to remember too that the contents and evidence in both Kelsey's car and Hall's truck haven't been released. Tons of info may be there.

[LionRun]

Ah, SeriouslySearching you have a good point about the ciggy smoke sneak theory. I hesitate to mention anything about pot because we have no reason to think that, and I hope everyone knows it is just a possibility.

If a skilled handler/dog team, where the dog was taught scent discrimination and was presented with the least contaminated personal article of Kara's at the point last seen, the dog may have trailed to where she went from there. But, after about three days in most cases the trail goes cold. Sometimes depending on various conditions such as temperature, humidity, and surface type the trail can be good for longer. But, by now it is too late.

Also, the trail may have gone cold once she got into a vehicle. But, at least they would have a start. The dog may have trailed a little bit in the direction the vehicle went giving at least some possible idea of which way she went. But, there would have been a lot of cross contamination possibly causing some problems, and she was not given the attention early on to have done anything like that. It is too late for that now.

I heard that LE is considering searching further in the area where dear Kelsey was found. I am sorry I don't have a link. If they have a probable search area, a cadaver dog team or a human remains detection dog team would be the best bet.

Lion

[strach304]

The Amber Harris case is one of the worse ones I have ever seen where LE assumed the child to be a runaway. Just like Kara asking her mother to wash her uniform, Amber was seen on the bus taking off her makeup because she wasn't allowed to wear it. In both cases it's clear these girls were intending to go home. They didn't use trailing dogs from the bus stop nor did they when her bookbag was found and contained some of her clothes. She wound up being found in a shallow grave at a park 5 miles from her house.

Personally I think any runaway is in danger anyway and they often become victims so LE should be trying to find them. Isn't it a good thing to get them safely home? If I were LE I'd much rather knock on the parents door and be able to hand deliver their child to them than have that other unbearable news.

My other thoughts now that someone brought up Kara sneaking out for a cigarette. I don't doubt Edwin Hall or even some other predator would troll high school areas for victims. Kelsey did just graduate high school and these nuts often have same victim types. It's often a matter of opportunity. He could've trolled any number of times where opportunity did not present itself. The abduction of Kelsey is hardly what could be considered an opportunity, quite the opposite imo but was brought on by an uncontrollable urge. I hate to say it because we know the outcome if so but I think EH is responsible for Kara's disappearance.

[SuziQ]

Great discussions everyone The problem with Kara's case is going to be the length of time between when she went missing and when her case was thought of as being a mere runaway. She also left behind money in a bank account that has never been touched. For a teenager that's unusual, every penny is every penny.

[strach304]

I agree. The sketch of the suspect linked to Kara looks so much like the nut case Hall. I hope LE is truly trying to resolve Kara's case...so tragic for her family. It doesn't seem to me from what I have read she was a runaway (even if she was, doesn't matter).
Prayers for Kara and family.

The problem with that is the sketch were from witnesses that said they saw Kara. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this but it was also two weeks after she disappeared she was supposed to have been spotted. I got the impression that she was willingly with that guy according to the witnesses. That would be one reason LE stopped seriously searching for her. They probably thought she ran off with a boyfriend instead of considering the witnesses were wrong about who they saw.

[SuziQ]

The problem with that is the sketch were from witnesses that said they saw Kara. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this but it was also two weeks after she disappeared she was supposed to have been spotted. I got the impression that she was willingly with that guy according to the witnesses. That would be one reason LE stopped seriously searching for her. They probably thought she ran off with a boyfriend instead of considering the witnesses were wrong about who they saw.

The problem that I have with the sighting is that witnesses will remember a face before they remember when they saw the face. I could very well see Hall coming across Kara and saying" Let me buy you a soda". They end up at that convenience store and three weeks later LE is asking about it.

[strach304]

Great discussions everyone The problem with Kara's case is going to be the length of time between when she went missing and when her case was thought of as being a mere runaway. She also left behind money in a bank account that has never been touched. For a teenager that's unusual, every penny is every penny.


If there was money in her account that just shows how ridiculous the idea of a runaway is. I didn't know there was money in the account because surely she would've withdrawn it. If she was a runaway of course she'd leave the phone and bank account alone so she couldn't be traced. I don't believe for a minute she would've left money behind.

[strach304]

The problem that I have with the sighting is that witnesses will remember a face before they remember when they saw the face. I could very well see Hall coming across Kara and saying" Let me buy you a soda". They end up at that convenience store and three weeks later LE is asking about it.


That's very true, witnesses are often wrong and with time memory fades. Another problem with the witness sighting if they are sure it was her had they seen her pic on the news and immediately recognized her or saw it after she was there and thought to themselves I think that girl was in my store the other day, etc. The woman that spotted Shasta Groene recognized her from the posters and pics on the news and immediately called police.

[petra]

:( If there was money in her account that just shows how ridiculous the idea of a runaway is. I didn't know there was money in the account because surely she would've withdrawn it. If she was a runaway of course she'd leave the phone and bank account alone so she couldn't be traced. I don't believe for a minute she would've left money behind.

Totally agree.

Hope we are wrong though and that Kara is safe and sound and staying with friends.

I so wish some of these so quickly labelled runaway cases would be taken more seriously much earlier on. We see way too many of them!

[SeriouslySearching]

The problem with that is the sketch were from witnesses that said they saw Kara. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on any of this but it was also two weeks after she disappeared she was supposed to have been spotted. I got the impression that she was willingly with that guy according to the witnesses. That would be one reason LE stopped seriously searching for her. They probably thought she ran off with a boyfriend instead of considering the witnesses were wrong about who they saw.

And what IF they were wrong? I have seen many girls that would fit her description while "hanging out" with my teen!

[SeriouslySearching]

Until you have seen the number of teens that go missing "ON PURPOSE" as opposed to those don't...you can't distinguish...which is LE's exact problem. They have to legally follow the guidelines..I guess. (Those are outdated if I may so myself!) Anytime a child goes missing...we should look at it as a "Missing" not a "Runaway" first!

[SeriouslySearching]

It is important to remember, just because there is NO physical evidence linking the suspect in Kelsey's case...doesn't mean he isn't the one that abducted her. They have to find the ONE piece of evidence linking the two before they can charge him. I am sure they are all over him about this case.

[strach304]

And what IF they were wrong? I have seen many girls that would fit her description while "hanging out" with my teen!

Isn't that what I said, twice?

[strach304]

It is important to remember, just because there is NO physical evidence linking the suspect in Kelsey's case...doesn't mean he isn't the one that abducted her. They have to find the ONE piece of evidence linking the two before they can charge him. I am sure they are all over him about this case.

After finding out a little more about him I think he'll break. I never think that will happen and occasionally it does but I do see the potential for a confession out of this one. Especially if they go after the DP he'll want to negotiate his life. Bundy tried that too.

[SeriouslySearching]

Isn't that what I said, twice?

Uhm, Yes, it could have been what you said...in a round about way...sorry. : )

[SuziQ]

Good morning everyone! I stayed up way to late and am a little fuzzy if you know what I mean:sick: Just now going through news articles and found this one:

http://www.thekansascitychannel.com/news/13473865/detail.html

[SuziQ]

Kara has not used her cell phone or accessed her bank account since she disappeared. Her mother thinks she stepped out of school during the day to smoke and then vanished.

http://tinyurl.com/yr5jeg

[fran]

I think they need to look in the vicinity they found Kelsy. IF Hall is involved, chances are, Kara will be somewhere close by. It's too bad they didn't continue looking for 'others,' while they had the resources in place.

JMHO
fran

[SeriouslySearching]

After finding out a little more about him I think he'll break. I never think that will happen and occasionally it does but I do see the potential for a confession out of this one. Especially if they go after the DP he'll want to negotiate his life. Bundy tried that too.
Not big on Bundy on this one, but I do appreciate he might fold given some evidence. Here is hoping! Cheers! Nothing I would raise my glass to more...than if he would confess. Champagne would be forthcoming~

[nanandjim]

I think they need to look in the vicinity they found Kelsy. IF Hall is involved, chances are, Kara will be somewhere close by. It's too bad they didn't continue looking for 'others,' while they had the resources in place.

JMHO
fran
This is how I feel, too. So, the resources are gone. Why didn't Tim Miller stay there and search a little longer for Kara?? That makes no sense whatsoever to me.

I hope that I am wrong. However, if Edwin committed additional crimes, I think that the only way that he is going to confess to anything else is to show him that they have an open and shut case with Kelsey, state that they are seeking the death penalty and negotiate with him if he admits to any others that there may be.

[Reannan]

I am cross-posting this message from one I posted over the Kelsey's thread:

There is a guy from Steve's site, "Carlos" who is a genius with digital images (at least in my mind). He has posted a picture of EH and the suspect from Kara's case. Here is what he said, and a link to the picture:
>>>From Carlos:

"A couple of my own observations for the following image:
Edwin’s hairline curves the way it does likely because it is well trained, indicating that he may have had longer hair like his MySpace photos and possibly even at the time of the Kara sighting. His shorter hair could be a recent haircut or a sort of cover up after seeing the sketch from the Kara sighting?
I think the thinner face on the Kara sketch could be the same ‘thinning face’ action I see in the Edwin court video. From side & 45 degree views his face appears thin enough that I would imagine him having a thin face in a eye to eye view.
The ears on the Kara sketch are also accurate.
The dark or thick eye brows indicate the same ‘view’ that we see in the security videos at Target, a dark brow-line.
Whoever described the Kara sketch likely saw alot of the same landmarks that we see in the very blurred security videos."
Photos:
http://64.237.40.80/edwin-kara. (http://64.237.40.80/edwin-kara.jpg)

[SuziQ]

I hope this link works. There's a great video on youtube for Kara. The ending is what creeps me out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXEV1PFz1qw&NR=1

[Reannan]

Here are two other photo collages from Carlos that gave me chills. This one is an overlay of EH with the suspect sketch from Kara's case:
http://64.237.40.80/edwin-overlay.jpg (http://64.237.40.80/edwin-overlay.jpg)

And this one has the actual photo of EH on the bottom and the Kara suspect sketch on top:
http://64.237.40.80/edwin-chop.jpg (http://64.237.40.80/edwin-chop.jpg)

Again....all courtesy of Carlos.

[SuziQ]

Here are some picture collages that Carlos was kind to do. Reannan originally posted this over at the Kelsey thread. Thank you Carlos and Reannan!

http://64.237.40.80/edwin-overlay.jpg

http://64.237.40.80/edwin-chop.jpg

[SuziQ]

Here are two other photo collages from Carlos that gave me chills. This one is an overlay of EH with the suspect sketch from Kara's case:
http://64.237.40.80/edwin-overlay.jpg (http://64.237.40.80/edwin-overlay.jpg)

And this one has the actual photo of EH on the bottom and the Kara suspect sketch on top:
http://64.237.40.80/edwin-chop.jpg (http://64.237.40.80/edwin-chop.jpg)

Again....all courtesy of Carlos.

Oops, sorry! I didn't see your post. Thank you so much for posting them here.

[SuziQ]

Thank you for posting all of that SuziQ. I hope we can start to learn more about Kara's case. I think I will email the people running findkarakopetsky and let them know that we have started a thread. Hopefully we can get some more "local" input

Missie, any luck with contacting Kara's group?

[Reannan]

Here is one more interesting collage from Carlos over at Steve's site. This one includes EH's Myspace pictures, his mugshot, and the suspect sketch in Kara's case. Carlos has applied for membership over here at WS....hope he gets moderated soon. He is a great asset!

http://64.237.40.80/edwin-myspace.jpg (http://64.237.40.80/edwin-myspace.jpg)

[MissieMt]

Hi guys-soory I have been out. Not feeling well, but I'll try to check in as much as possible.

[MissieMt]

Missie, any luck with contacting Kara's group?
I haven't heard back from them yet..

[mom3dd]

I find it amazing that a drawing from weeks ago can look so much like this POS It is a drawing so it isn't going to be picture perfect but so close it is eerie. I continue to pray for Kara I know the police are working hard on her case now. I am also praying they will have dogs search that park. The u tube slide shows are very interesting also. Thanks for everyone keeping up with this and keeping the thread alive.

[InterestedNHelping]

The pic overs were nice...I did them myself prior to posting that I thought the two cases are linked, thats the research required to make a statement like that, and I felt as if I had done my homework before making such an assessment... the perps are very very similar, as I said before.(I believe the same) However, the difference will probably be this...Kelsey was the 'fighter', and in my guess, she died quickly because she was a danger to his identity...Kara, however, may be more difficult to find (and even possibly alive) because she may have gone along with his ideas, in order to stay alive through it. This is, of course, speculation, but if she is found it would be harder, he had more time with her, and he may have been doing something like prostitution rings or something similar, (drugs etc) that may be why she has not been found. This perp is the same, and I am betting that he figured out how to this stuff, and he probably has done it for some time, but what 'IT' is exactly, remains to be seen. We shall see where my speculation goes with this one....hmmmm

[Reannan]

Here is a post that I left over at the Kelsey thread, and forgot to cross-post over here:

#330 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1524982&postcount=330) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/report.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/report.php?p=1524982)
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/post_old.gif Today, 05:40 PM
Reannan (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=11721) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_1524982", true);
Seek Brotherhood, Cherish Solitude
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 120


Luke, I sort of agree with you, but those sketches and the location of where EH took Kelsey being so close to Belton are very odd coincidences. Of course, there have been a lot of odd coincidences with Kelsey's case. I had a thought since your last posting. It is a long-shot, and even I admit it is a bit ridiculous, but I am throwing it into the mix anyway. What is Kara was abducted by EH and is or was being held hostage someplace? What if EH headed towards where Kara was being held when he initially abducted Kelsey, and that is why one of the pings from Kelsey's cell phone is off? Maybe he was going to keep them together, or who knows what...... but something happened and he ended up going towards Belton to dispose of Kelsey. I know.....it sounds ridiculous, but if I had posted similar what-if's with Elizabeth Smart or Shawn Hornbeck, they would have sounded just as stupid early in the investigation. Ok.....maybe I need to go do something else for a while. This has consumed my day, and perhaps I am getting a big dingy. Love ya'll.....you are the best!

[anothersheart]

Heard that Kara parents are going to be talking with Geraldo in about 20 mins on FOX NEWs.

[MissieMt]

From the topix board:


karas_cousin

our family did all the same things the smith family did - huge groups of family, friends and volunteers met to hand out thousands of flyers... we BEGGED the media to get the word out but the news stations said that the belton police department had to release the story for them to cover it - so we begged them to do what they needed to do to get the media involved- belton police had a "gut feeling" it was a runaway case - never once did that make sense to us! the police didn't even check her locker for weeks - if they had they would have known her debit card was left there... there are hundreds of things that happened just like that. but what everyone should know is that kara has a huge family and every one of us has begged for the attention that kelsey and her family had - and thank God they did have the support. and it's high time kara gets the support she deserves!! God Bless all of you just talking about her case!! we will not stop until we find her!!

[MissieMt]

I'm watching Geraldo and will try to post as much as I can.

[SeriouslySearching]

I am just not sure the person saw Kara 3 weeks after she went missing. Not that the sketch couldn't be right, but I am doubtful Kara was there, IMO.

[MissieMt]

I agree SS, but unfortunately it's the closest thing to a lead that anyone has heard about.

[EZRA]

Why would she go to the extreme of not taking her debit card, cell phone, etc and then let herself be seen so close to home? That doesn't make any sense at all. And Carlos over at Steve's site (they were posted here too) put the images together and they are just way too close to discount ERH as the perp in Kara's case. One question though. Typically when kids go out to smoke at school they don't go out alone. Was anyone else out there with her? Someone must have seen something?? If they did are they just not talking? The theory of her getting into someones truck (Edwin) makes complete sense especially knowing that she worked at a mall. Why don't her parents organize a search party and search over at Longview Lake?

[anothersheart]

I am going to try and find her friends myspace where he is talking about her cutting school around 10:30 that day and no one wanting to leave with her and get in trouble.

Also, Geraldo said Kara did not get as much media coverage due to her disappearing so close to the time of the Greensburg tornado hitting.

[EZRA]

But if she was leaving school wouldn't she have taken her debit card with her?

[anothersheart]

My daughter is not allowed to take her debit card to school due to theft. Did she have it at home? The impression I got was just that she wanted to cut classes for the afternoon before going to work. Did she have cash on her? I need to find that myspace and re-read it.

[MissieMt]

what i dont understand is why she would have called her Mom and asked her to bring the school book she had forgotten if she were planning on playing hookey.

[anothersheart]

what i dont understand is why she would have called her Mom and asked her to bring the school book she had forgotten if she were planning on playing hookey.


Good point, I forgot about that. Maybe she didn't have the books she needed for those classes and that was why she wanted to cut them? Did her mom take the books to school?

[Indy Gal]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Until you have seen the number of teens that go missing "ON PURPOSE" as opposed to those don't...you can't distinguish...which is LE's exact problem. They have to legally follow the guidelines..I guess. (Those are outdated if I may so myself!) Anytime a child goes missing...we should look at it as a "Missing" not a "Runaway" first!

[Idaho4Groenes]

Kara's family and friends will be having a Support Rally on Tuesday, June 12, at 5:00 pm. They will be passing out flyers to surrounding neighborhoods and selling hamburgers, hot dogs, and t-shirts to collect donations for the Kara Kopetsky Fund. This rally is in Belton, MO at Cosentino's Price Chopper, at 1833 E. North Avenue (SW corner of 58 & 71 Highway). If you're in the area, please join them!

[MissieMt]

IIRC her Mom did drop off the book

[SuziQ]

what i dont understand is why she would have called her Mom and asked her to bring the school book she had forgotten if she were planning on playing hookey.

She picked up her book from the school office. And the a video shows her walking away, down the hall. Last official sighting. She could have snuck out for a quick smoke before returning to class. I haven't heard anything about her cutting school. A possibility though.

[bluestarzz]

anyone know who provided the information for the sketch? where was it supposably they saw her with this individual? when?
blue

[anothersheart]

This is what is listed on Pale Horse Davis My Space in reference to her leaving school that day.

"Kara skipped school they day she vanished, she was last seen at 10:30 ish.

She called me and my friend, trying to get us to hang out with her.

We said f*** off Kara, you need to stay in school, and not skip.

MAYBE, POSSIBLY, if one of her so-called friends would have kept her
from skipping, and helped her do the right thing, then maybe Kara would
still be around."


This is just a cut and paste of what is on his myspace about half-way down. I do not know if it was confirmed from any other of her friend her wanting to cut classes or not. Just a thought that maybe someone knew something or someone she was going to meet?


http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=121132037&blogID=273168036&MyToken=7f122a1d-5171-42bf-87d9-7bc575b8f5b7

[SeriouslySearching]

This is what is listed on Pale Horse Davis My Space in reference to her leaving school that day.

"Kara skipped school they day she vanished, she was last seen at 10:30 ish.

She called me and my friend, trying to get us to hang out with her.

We said f*** off Kara, you need to stay in school, and not skip.

MAYBE, POSSIBLY, if one of her so-called friends would have kept her
from skipping, and helped her do the right thing, then maybe Kara would
still be around."


This is just a cut and paste of what is on his myspace about half-way down. I do not know if it was confirmed from any other of her friend her wanting to cut classes or not. Just a thought that maybe someone knew something or someone she was going to meet?


http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=121132037&blogID=273168036&MyToken=7f122a1d-5171-42bf-87d9-7bc575b8f5b7

I found him earlier and read a bunch of his posts.

In that post, he wasn't saying she DID call anyone. He was refering to IF SHE HAD called in a hypothetical way. Doesn't mean anything and we know Kara didn't call anyone.

[Indy Gal]

I found him earlier and read a bunch of his posts. I don't trust him. If she had called him as he said, LE would have released that info because it would have meant she planned to leave school. Her cell phone was in her locker when she went missing and it makes absolutely no sense that she called anyone. So whatever he is trying to sell...I am not buying.
Honestly SS, I dont think they did much to try to find her.:furious: They just said she ran away.

[txsvicki]

I can't believe the LE would have thought that any girl who looked like Kara would willingly run away with any guy who looked like the guy in the sketch or anyone who looks like edwin hall. She may have been with him at a fast food place, but not be interested in him as a boyfriend. No way.

[SuziQ]

I can't believe the LE would have thought that any girl who looked like Kara would willingly run away with any guy who looked like the guy in the sketch or anyone who looks like edwin hall. She may have been with him at a fast food place, but not be interested in him as a boyfriend. No way.

As irritated as I am with how LE handled this case in the beginning. It's standard op procedure for them. It's not right. And hopefully that will change. Can you imagine her parents frustration? The cases that really get me are the 11-12 year olds that are labeled runaways. Runaway to where for crying out loud? Either I'm getting old or 11-12 year olds are more street saavy than they used to be.

[strach304]

I can now see the resemblance where I couldn't before. The steps that the artist goes through for each individual thing combined with the persons recollection of detail in those new illustrations make me think it's him. The overall ending result is what I saw before and thought there was no resembance. They got the eyebrows spot on, chin and lips almost identical, nose is pretty close too. If you think about how they come up with these by witnesses saying the nose is wider, eyebrows higher, etc. the individual characteristics do match.

[strach304]

I have a few questions from recent posts that I hope someone can answer because what I thought doesn't seem to be right. TIA

1. Did Kara's mother bring her a book at school and called her later to ask her Mom to wash her uniform?

2. Was it her cell phone, bank card or both left in her locker?

[Reannan]

I understand that Kara called her Mom from school and asked her to bring her a book, and I thought her uniform for work after school. Not clear is she used her cell phone or the school phone to call. A lot of schools do not allow studets to use their cell phones during school. I remember reading that Kara's Mom took her the book, but I don't recall hearing what she did with the uniform. The book was left at the school office and Kara came up and picked it up the next chance she got. The last confirmed sighting of Kara was security camera footage of her walking down the hallway after retrieving the book. Her bank card was left in her locker, I am not sure about where the cell phone is.

Txsvicki said something about Kara not being interested in a person like EH. In my opinion, her boyfriend that she had the restraining order against looks a LOT like EH, only her boyfriend had a pierced lip. I could easily see Kara being attracted to EH based on this fact.

[Monika30]

I understand that Kara called her Mom from school and asked her to bring her a book, and I thought her uniform for work after school. Not clear is she used her cell phone or the school phone to call. A lot of schools do not allow studets to use their cell phones during school. I remember reading that Kara's Mom took her the book, but I don't recall hearing what she did with the uniform. The book was left at the school office and Kara came up and picked it up the next chance she got. The last confirmed sighting of Kara was security camera footage of her walking down the hallway after retrieving the book. Her bank card was left in her locker, I am not sure about where the cell phone is.


Reannan,
From news articles and myspace comments left by a friend this is how I understand the morning she went missing:

She walked to school. Forgot her book. Called her Mom to bring the book as well as wash her work uniform for her shift that afterron at Popeyes. Mom left the book at the office and Kara picked up the book at some point.
No mention of uniform again but I assume Kara would go home after school to change into her uniform and go to work (I doubt she usually brought her uniform with her and went right after school to work).

Last used her cell phone at around 10:30. A friend says on his myspace comments that she called him and another friend looking to skip school. They told her something along the lines of 'f#$% off, don't skip classes'..
so she was actively looking to ditch classes that day.. she went outside to
smoke (she lists on her page that she is a smoker and her mother confirms this) and she is never seen again.

An interesting comment also made by the same friend as above was that Kara's boyfriend, Kylr Yust, has denied seeing Kara that day. The friend continued and agreed with another poster that Kylr is being 'shady'. I understand that Kylr has taken 2 polygraphs and I think he is pretty much not being seen as a suspect by LE. Still, some very disturbing events occurred between him and Kara just 8 days before she went missing.

If Edwin Hall had anything to do with this he was probably just trolling the high school for any cigarette break students he could lure. He might even had been watching the school for patterns and knew who the smokers were and when they were likely to leave for a smoke break. I'm just kind of stunned that Belton High School doesn't have cameras running to monitor the outside of the school.

[Monika30]

I found him earlier and read a bunch of his posts.

In that post, he wasn't saying she DID call anyone. He was refering to IF SHE HAD called in a hypothetical way. Doesn't mean anything and we know Kara didn't call anyone.

Sorry SS, but when I read that (which is what I was referring to in my previous post) it sounds to me like she DID call him and the other friend. Her phone was last used at that time. LE could easily confirm this by looking at who she called. I'm surprised they haven't released that information. The friend who wrote that is the myspace user named Pale Horse Davis. He was just on the local news there shown posting more fliers with a bunch of Kara's friends. They showed his real name. When I googled that he is not listed in any news article in reference to Kara. I'm not sure why he wouldn't have shared what he shared online with LE who in turn would have released that information by now.

[fran]

If I were Kara's family, I would try and form a mega-search party to search the vicinity of where they found Kelsey. They should plan a two day event. I bet many of the local businesses would donate water and sandwiches for searchers etc. Invite the media, all her classmates and their families to join. Put it out into the public of the event and get lots of people!

What is so sad is that so often LE takes a child from 12 to 18 that disappears and automatically they consider it a run-a-way. IMO, IF they'd looked at all the evidence here, they would have been able to tell Kara wasn't gone by choice.

She didn't withdraw any large sum from her ATM, she hasn't used her cell phone, she had plans for later in the day, she even left an entire carton of cigs at home. IF she had planned this, she would not have left these things behind.

Nah, I think she either went out to sneak a cigarette or maybe even ditched the rest of the day and someone (ah-hem!) was driving around looking for the right target. She may have been it. :(

JMHO
fran

[nanandjim]

If I were Kara's family, I would try and form a mega-search party to search the vicinity of where they found Kelsey...I think she either went out to sneak a cigarette or maybe even ditched the rest of the day and someone (ah-hem!) was driving around looking for the right target. She may have been it. :(

JMHO
fran
Fran - I totally agree. Now, that they have a possible area to search, they should take full advantage of it. If EH committed this crime, there is a very strong possibility that Kara is in this area, too. The only thing that bothers me about Kara is that I also suspect her ex-boyfriend. If Kara wanted to skip school and could find no one else to do so, perhaps, she got in touch with her boyfriend. Did the police say that he had a solid alibi?

In any case, I would be searching this park. There is no way that I believe that she ran away.

[SuziQ]

Sigh, I had not heard this before. Throws a chink into the whole case. I still believe though, that the fact even her friends haven't heard from her, her untouched bank account and other factors. Shows this girl is not a runaway....this time.

KMBC's Dan Weinbaum reported that what makes the case difficult is that Kopetsky has run away before. Since she is 17 years old, Kopetsky is considered somewhat of an adult if she took off on her own.

"They don't have enough evidence to call it a kidnapping, and they don't have enough to call it a runaway," Honeycutt said.

http://tinyurl.com/2bd3ps

[SuziQ]

AMW had Kara's case on it's show. That is such great news!

http://tinyurl.com/29arq8

[TGIRecovered]

Maybe Kara forgot her book on purpose.

When I bring something to school for one of my kids, the office usually calls the student to come to the office to get it. Maybe Kara used the book as an excuse to get out of class at a time when other students and teachers were not around to see when she left. If she were planning on being picked up by someone, the break between classes would have been too risky due to teachers and possibly campus security monitoring the walkways around the school.

This is not to imply that she intended to run away never to return home. She could easily have left with someone, thinking that they would return at the end of the day so that she could go to work and come home just as she would on a normal day and her parents would be none the wiser.

In my opinion, when any child is missing they should be actively searched for because they are in danger whether they intended to leave or not. Predators know that it is easier to take advantage of a troubled teen because any absence will be treated as a runaway case rather than an abduction. LE makes it easy for the predator by complaining that so many kids run away that they can't possibly search for all of them.

I believe that a parent's responsibility to protect their kids does not end when the child becomes a rebellious teen. If it's my kid missing no matter if they've run away or not, I'll be talking to every kid, teacher, parent and reporter I can find and camping out on the steps of the police station until pigs fly or I get my kid back!

Susan

[MissieMt]

Maybe Kara forgot her book on purpose.

When I bring something to school for one of my kids, the office usually calls the student to come to the office to get it. Maybe Kara used the book as an excuse to get out of class at a time when other students and teachers were not around to see when she left. If she were planning on being picked up by someone, the break between classes would have been too risky due to teachers and possibly campus security monitoring the walkways around the school.

This is not to imply that she intended to run away never to return home. She could easily have left with someone, thinking that they would return at the end of the day so that she could go to work and come home just as she would on a normal day and her parents would be none the wiser.

In my opinion, when any child is missing they should be actively searched for because they are in danger whether they intended to leave or not. Predators know that it is easier to take advantage of a troubled teen because any absence will be treated as a runaway case rather than an abduction. LE makes it easy for the predator by complaining that so many kids run away that they can't possibly search for all of them.

I believe that a parent's responsibility to protect their kids does not end when the child becomes a rebellious teen. If it's my kid missing no matter if they've run away or not, I'll be talking to every kid, teacher, parent and reporter I can find and camping out on the steps of the police station until pigs fly or I get my kid back!

Susan

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I agree that all cases should be looked into-and seriously. I think that the kids should be thoroughly searched for-and if it turns out they really have run away, then when they are found they should be in trouble with the law-not just a stern talking to by Mommy and Daddy. I think when we start taking running away seriously children will too.
On the other hand, from what I've read I get the impression that her family really did try to convince LE that she was not a runaway. Some who claim to be close to the family said the media refused to get involved in the story until LE released a statement.

[mom3dd]

I believe that a parent's responsibility to protect their kids does not end when the child becomes a rebellious teen. If it's my kid missing no matter if they've run away or not, I'll be talking to every kid, teacher, parent and reporter I can find and camping out on the steps of the police station until pigs fly or I get my kid back!

Susan[/QUOTE]
If you have not lived thru a rebellious teen in this day and time please do not judge parents who have. Pigs can fly easier than it is to control an out of control teen
If Kara ranaway great just let her parents know she is alive. There are confidential hotlines for runaway teens the number should be prominent on her fliers.

[mom3dd]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

I agree that all cases should be looked into-and seriously. I think that the kids should be thoroughly searched for-and if it turns out they really have run away, then when they are found they should be in trouble with the law-not just a stern talking to by Mommy and Daddy. I think when we start taking running away seriously children will too.
On the other hand, from what I've read I get the impression that her family really did try to convince LE that she was not a runaway. Some who claim to be close to the family said the media refused to get involved in the story until LE released a statement.

LE has to confirm the teen is a runaway or truly missing to news source and NCMEC. To many people trying to use and abuse the system. If the child has a history of running away your chances of LE doing anything drastically reduce. Which puts them at even more risk.

[fran]

LE has to confirm the teen is a runaway or truly missing to news source and NCMEC. To many people trying to use and abuse the system. If the child has a history of running away your chances of LE doing anything drastically reduce. Which puts them at even more risk.

What I don't understand is, though, IF she were running away, wouldn't she have taken her cell phone and debit card? Her cell phone was in her locker. I mean runaways need $$. Also, her mom, IIRC, went to work that day so Kara could have gone back home and gotten some clothes and that whole carton of cigaretts she left behind.

I would be willing to bet that when she ran away previously, her parents had clues it was 'runaway,' ie. missing clothes and $$ or even one of her friends telling their parents they knew she'd runaway but didn't know where she was.

Her parents knew this time was different. She had plans for AFTER school, which was work and calling her dad, yet she disappeared FROM school, never made it to work, didn't call her dad, left behind her cell phone, and left behind her debit card. She did NOT intend to runaway IMO.

Now, I know LE in one article said they're not sure this was a 'valid' sighting of Kara with the composite of the 'resemblance to Hall' guy. So, IF I were her parents and with what has happened to Kelsey and the proximity of where they found her, I would be having a major search in that area.

IF I were LE in any close by area, I would also be looking into any other crimes whereby a 'woman,' no matter the age or even if it were a disappearance from her home, be looked into and this Hall guy's whereabouts at the times of these crimes be looked into.

I'm tellin' ya, this is NOT this guy's first victim. Remember, his foster sister he attacked happened 11 years previously. He's been out of State custody for 8 years and lived in different states and cities. He was a predator waiting to pounce, IMHO. :(

JMHO
fran

[10EC_Dad]

What I don't understand is, though, IF she were running away, wouldn't she have taken her cell phone and debit card? Her cell phone was in her locker. I mean runaways need $$. Also, her mom, IIRC, went to work that day so Kara could have gone back home and gotten some clothes and that whole carton of cigaretts she left behind.

I would be willing to bet that when she ran away previously, her parents had clues it was 'runaway,' ie. missing clothes and $$ or even one of her friends telling their parents they knew she'd runaway but didn't know where she was.

Her parents knew this time was different. She had plans for AFTER school, which was work and calling her dad, yet she disappeared FROM school, never made it to work, didn't call her dad, left behind her cell phone, and left behind her debit card. She did NOT intend to runaway IMO.

Now, I know LE in one article said they're not sure this was a 'valid' sighting of Kara with the composite of the 'resemblance to Hall' guy. So, IF I were her parents and with what has happened to Kelsey and the proximity of where they found her, I would be having a major search in that area.

IF I were LE in any close by area, I would also be looking into any other crimes whereby a 'woman,' no matter the age or even if it were a disappearance from her home, be looked into and this Hall guy's whereabouts at the times of these crimes be looked into.

I'm tellin' ya, this is NOT this guy's first victim. Remember, his foster sister he attacked happened 11 years previously. He's been out of State custody for 8 years and lived in different states and cities. He was a predator waiting to pounce, IMHO. :(

JMHO
fran


I agree that it seems odd for her to run away and not take two of the most valuable things to a teenager: cell phone and $$$.

I could see a scenario where EH had met her online and maybe had gone by her work a few times. If what I read earlier today, that he had a teenage girlfriend as recently as a few years ago, it is very possible he was trying to "date" Kara.

Just my opinions on the matter.

[SeriouslySearching]

Sorry SS, but when I read that (which is what I was referring to in my previous post) it sounds to me like she DID call him and the other friend. Her phone was last used at that time. LE could easily confirm this by looking at who she called. I'm surprised they haven't released that information. The friend who wrote that is the myspace user named Pale Horse Davis. He was just on the local news there shown posting more fliers with a bunch of Kara's friends. They showed his real name. When I googled that he is not listed in any news article in reference to Kara. I'm not sure why he wouldn't have shared what he shared online with LE who in turn would have released that information by now.

I went back and read it again. If you read the posts above his...you will see what he was trying to say is that IF she had called good friends...they would have given her good advice instead of encouraging her or going with her to ditch classes! (IMO that is what I honestly believe he is saying.) He did not say she actually called anyone. I believe LE would have released that info to the parents and others if they had indication she made such a call to her friends. I do not believe she called anyone except her mom that morning.

[MeoW333]

If she was a smoker, she definitely would have brought the carton of cigarettes she left in her room with her. Cell phones and ATM cards can both be traced. Yet for her to leave knowing she would have to buy cigarettes at places when she had a whole carton at home.. she wasn't trying to escape a bad home situation to our knowledge.. hopefully LE checks her computer. So many cases of these missing young women involve someone they met off of myspace.

[LionRun]

I believe she would definitely have taken her near full carton of cigarettes if she planned on running away. But, I also believe she might have taken her ATM card as well. Even if she realized and Knew the card could be traced, had she emptied her account of cash at a local location prior to anyone knowing she was gone, she probably also knew that video wouldn't be too useful in finding her.

Lion

[Bobbisangel]

I can now see the resemblance where I couldn't before. The steps that the artist goes through for each individual thing combined with the persons recollection of detail in those new illustrations make me think it's him. The overall ending result is what I saw before and thought there was no resembance. They got the eyebrows spot on, chin and lips almost identical, nose is pretty close too. If you think about how they come up with these by witnesses saying the nose is wider, eyebrows higher, etc. the individual characteristics do match.


Thing that threw me off for a bit was the ears. In the picture of the guy his ears really stand out and Edwin Halls ears don't stick out but everything else is a pretty good match. I think he is the guy. Now if they can just prove it.

[Bobbisangel]

I agree. The sketch of the suspect linked to Kara looks so much like the nut case Hall. I hope LE is truly trying to resolve Kara's case...so tragic for her family. It doesn't seem to me from what I have read she was a runaway (even if she was, doesn't matter).
Prayers for Kara and family.


I wonder if LE has talked to whoever helped draw that sketch since Hall was caught. If whoever the person was who helped draw that sketch looked at Hall maybe she could either say it was him or rule him out. Doesn't that make sense?

[Bobbisangel]

http://www.myspace.com/melonmout08 (http://www.myspace.com/melonmouth08)



I was just reading Tara's MySpace and something I read really struck me.

In some questions she was answering it asked what she was afraid of and she said....the dark and being alone. She is probably both of those right now.

It asked how she wanted to die...she said...happy. I doubt if she got that wish either. It is just to sad. I wish that creep Hall would confess and say where Tara is if he is the guilty party.

[Bobbisangel]

I can't believe the LE would have thought that any girl who looked like Kara would willingly run away with any guy who looked like the guy in the sketch or anyone who looks like edwin hall. She may have been with him at a fast food place, but not be interested in him as a boyfriend. No way.


You would be surprised who young girls will go with especially if they are looking for some good strokes from a guy. If the guy says all of the right things and especially if he is older I think that can grab a young girls attention. These guys aren't the best looking guys in town but they aren't the worst and they may have a great line. Edwin's wife seemed to think that he was something special. Depends on a girl's taste in guys too. I'd like to see what Kara's ex boyfriend looked like. He may be a homely little thing but she probably thought he was real cute. We just don't know about the taste of individuals. If it was Hall who got Kara he may not have grabbed her like he did Kelsey. Maybe he sweet talked his way into getting Kara to go with him. I just wish we knew if he is the guy.

[Mygirlsadie]

Does anyone have a picture of the X boyfriend Kylr?? And YES the sketch and Hall look ALOT alike I was like whoa!..:confused:

[SeriouslySearching]

Why would Hall keep Kara alive for weeks and kill Kelsey within two hours? It makes no sense. It just doesn't fit with what he is accused of in the Smith case at all.

I don't believe it was Kara the witness saw. However, it could have been Hall that was seen with another girl. That isn't out of the question, IMO.

I have seen his pic, but can't recall where. You can probably google it tho. He looks like a punk rocker...kinda edgy and has the 'bad boy' image...but he is in a band, I think. I know about a hundred kids that fit that mold and they don't kidnap people or kill them! He is just another musician with a bad haircut IMO!! Don't you remember being Kara's age and having a crush on the boy your mom would scream over you seeing?! Hmm..am I the only rebellious teen from our generation? LOL

I personally don't think her Ex-bf had anything to do with her disappearance and he has cooperated with LE to clear himself. The exes always look good as a suspect from the onset, but LE seems to believe this guy wasn't involved after checking him out thoroughly.

[Mygirlsadie]

haha nope! You are not the only teen whose parents screamed over who you were dating. I think when my parents made a ''fuss'' over a boy it made me only like him that much more...weird too because I got along fine with my parents.




Why would Hall keep Kara alive for weeks and kill Kelsey within two hours? It makes no sense. It just doesn't fit with what he is accused of in the Smith case at all.

I don't believe it was Kara the witness saw. However, it could have been Hall that was seen with another girl. That isn't out of the question, IMO.

I have seen his pic, but can't recall where. You can probably google it tho. He looks like a punk rocker...kinda edgy and has the 'bad boy' image...but he is in a band, I think. I know about a hundred kids that fit that mold and they don't kidnap people or kill them! He is just another musician with a bad haircut IMO!! Don't you remember being Kara's age and having a crush on the boy your mom would scream over you seeing?! Hmm..am I the only rebellious teen from our generation? LOL

I personally don't think her Ex-bf had anything to do with her disappearance and he has cooperated with LE to clear himself. The exes always look good as a suspect from the onset, but LE seems to believe this guy wasn't involved after checking him out thoroughly.

[MissieMt]

You would be surprised who young girls will go with especially if they are looking for some good strokes from a guy. If the guy says all of the right things and especially if he is older I think that can grab a young girls attention. These guys aren't the best looking guys in town but they aren't the worst and they may have a great line. Edwin's wife seemed to think that he was something special. Depends on a girl's taste in guys too. I'd like to see what Kara's ex boyfriend looked like. He may be a homely little thing but she probably thought he was real cute. We just don't know about the taste of individuals. If it was Hall who got Kara he may not have grabbed her like he did Kelsey. Maybe he sweet talked his way into getting Kara to go with him. I just wish we knew if he is the guy.

I agree-I was a pretty rebelious teen too, and if the guys had a car (and hopefully money to take us out to lunch) we didn't care what he looked like if we wanted to skip school. Now I know how stupid that is, of course, but I was lucky-and me and my best friends were always together so if someone wanted to hurt one of us they had to handle 3 of us.

[KBUK]

If Kara had left a full packet of ciggies at home, I doubt she would have had another packet at school. I've smoked for 16 years and never have umpteem packets in different places!

So, if she sneaked out for a ciggie break... who did she get one from?

[Monika30]

I'd like to see what Kara's ex boyfriend looked like. He may be a homely little thing but she probably thought he was real cute. We just don't know about the taste of individuals. If it was Hall who got Kara he may not have grabbed her like he did Kelsey. Maybe he sweet talked his way into getting Kara to go with him. I just wish we knew if he is the guy.


He's not a homely little thing at all. In fact, Kylr Yust is very attractive, in my opinion, and edgy enough (they used to call it 'alternative' in my day.. haha) that a girl with a rebellious streak like Kara would be completely in love with and in fact, she said so herself on her myspace about having 'dedicated the last 9 months of her life' to him. To add to that, seeing the photos of Edwin Hall, with his tattoo, goatee and when his hair was longer and if he was wearing those converse sneakers he would be EXACTLY the sort of guy Kara would not only be attracted to but even feel 'safe' with as he seems to be a lot like her type and one tends to trust one's own type more.

In any case, here's Kylr Yust's photo. (http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r8/cheymarie1506/kylr-yust.jpg)

[Indy Gal]

Sorry if this has been posted, just hopping over here for a moment

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=79a5c76e-0837-45bc-94f9-5214291bb7a9

[Indy Gal]

If Kara had left a full packet of ciggies at home, I doubt she would have had another packet at school. I've smoked for 16 years and never have umpteem packets in different places!

So, if she sneaked out for a ciggie break... who did she get one from?
Maybe A friend. We always did that in school, share

[EZRA]

I still think it's odd though that she went outside to smoke alone. Even at work we don't go out alone and we're adults. We always go out with a friend or in a group. And as teenagers didn't we always do things in groups even go to the bathroom??? :)

[Jade]

If Kara had left a full packet of ciggies at home, I doubt she would have had another packet at school. I've smoked for 16 years and never have umpteem packets in different places!

So, if she sneaked out for a ciggie break... who did she get one from?

I have looked and cannot find a link but I am pretty sure her Mother said Kara left her carton of cigarettes at home. [Not a smoker but I see people getting a long box with a bunch of packets of cigs?]

[MissieMt]

I have looked and cannot find a link but I am pretty sure her Mother said Kara left her carton of cigarettes at home. [Not a smoker but I see people getting a long box with a bunch of packets of cigs?]
Thats right Jade-her mother said she left a carton at home (carton has 10 packs in it)

[fran]

Thats right Jade-her mother said she left a carton at home (carton has 10 packs in it)

That's why I'm saying I personally don't think she 'ranaway.' She left her clothes, cigaretts (her mom was gone during the day and she could have gone home and gotten them,) she left her cell phone in her locker at school, IIRC, and she hasn't used any of her $$.

It's not FREE to runaway. LOL, just ask my sis. She ran away three times. The first two times she came home within days. The third time she was gone for three weeks. Oh, we knew she was ok, just didn't know where she was. That is until the people she was staying with got tired of supporting her and called my parents to come pick her up.

Nah.....Kara didn't runaway, IMHO. She might have gone out for a smoke during school hours and been grabbed just like Kelsey. Or, that guy did look young, I never would have taken him for 26, and she might have thought he was a student and got in the car to hide her smoking and he drove away.

Once Ted Bundy would get the girls in a position he could do it, he'd knock them unconscious. That's why most of his victims were found beaten AND strangled.

I still think LE or the family needs to go back to the vicinity of where they found Kelsey and look for more victims. It's only six miles from where Kara disappeared.

Look, from what i understand, this guy supposedly worked nights and his wife worked days. I also understand he had started collecting 'scrap metal.' Well, the 'scrap metal' deal would give him a reason to be out 'cruising' during the day. Kara was at a high school, prime location to find a victim. It could have just been an 'opportunity' he couldn't resist. Girl alone while classes were in session.

IMHO, Kelsey is NOT this guy's first victim.

JMHO
fran

[greeneyz]

I am watching the memorial service for Kelsey and it has me thinking about Kara and her family and friends...I am hoping and praying that they can find some resolution in the disappearance of Kara and finally get some answers. Someone out there HAS to know SOMETHING...hopefully her story will be in the spotlight now that Kelsey's has been resolved.

[SuziQ]

I have to add to the sighting that resulted in the composite photo. It originated at an eatery or convenience store. It must of been a pretty podunk place to not have a video. Or the video was taped over. The first article I read about the sighting was on May 23rd. In that article it says the sighting was a "couple of weeks before". What does that mean? Did the people sighted her tell LE that that they saw her a few weeks back. that could mean as much as three weeks, IMO. Or did the paper not publish the info for several days? Start at May 23rd. Go back two weeks, that's now May 9th. Take away a few days for the above stated generalities, the sighting could have happened on May 4th. If the girl sighted was really Kara. Then I believe the sighting happened the day she disappeared as something happened to her that very day to keep her from using her cell phone and bank account.

[LionRun]

Maybe A friend. We always did that in school, share

I imagine since she bought cigarettes by the carton, she was also likely not to be without them during the day. She probably had a pack with her as most who smoke and buy by the carton do. Perhaps the most important thing is that she may have, and we don't know for a fact, but she may have gone out to have a cigarette.

Lion

[Indy Gal]

Why would Hall keep Kara alive for weeks and kill Kelsey within two hours? It makes no sense. It just doesn't fit with what he is accused of in the Smith case at all.

I don't believe it was Kara the witness saw. However, it could have been Hall that was seen with another girl. That isn't out of the question, IMO.

I have seen his pic, but can't recall where. You can probably google it tho. He looks like a punk rocker...kinda edgy and has the 'bad boy' image...but he is in a band, I think. I know about a hundred kids that fit that mold and they don't kidnap people or kill them! He is just another musician with a bad haircut IMO!! Don't you remember being Kara's age and having a crush on the boy your mom would scream over you seeing?! Hmm..am I the only rebellious teen from our generation? LOL

I personally don't think her Ex-bf had anything to do with her disappearance and he has cooperated with LE to clear himself. The exes always look good as a suspect from the onset, but LE seems to believe this guy wasn't involved after checking him out thoroughly.
I agree with you!!

[Alice253]

That's why I'm saying I personally don't think she 'ranaway.' She left her clothes, cigaretts (her mom was gone during the day and she could have gone home and gotten them,) she left her cell phone in her locker at school, IIRC, and she hasn't used any of her $$.

It's not FREE to runaway. LOL, just ask my sis. She ran away three times. The first two times she came home within days. The third time she was gone for three weeks. Oh, we knew she was ok, just didn't know where she was. That is until the people she was staying with got tired of supporting her and called my parents to come pick her up.

Nah.....Kara didn't runaway, IMHO. She might have gone out for a smoke during school hours and been grabbed just like Kelsey. Or, that guy did look young, I never would have taken him for 26, and she might have thought he was a student and got in the car to hide her smoking and he drove away.

Once Ted Bundy would get the girls in a position he could do it, he'd knock them unconscious. That's why most of his victims were found beaten AND strangled.

I still think LE or the family needs to go back to the vicinity of where they found Kelsey and look for more victims. It's only six miles from where Kara disappeared.

Look, from what i understand, this guy supposedly worked nights and his wife worked days. I also understand he had started collecting 'scrap metal.' Well, the 'scrap metal' deal would give him a reason to be out 'cruising' during the day. Kara was at a high school, prime location to find a victim. It could have just been an 'opportunity' he couldn't resist. Girl alone while classes were in session.

IMHO, Kelsey is NOT this guy's first victim.

JMHO
fran

Excellent post, Fran. ITA with every word of it.

[strach304]

Anyone besides me notice that Kara's myspace page lists Nebraska? It's right down past her pic on the right hand side under other stats. Wasn't Edwin Hall's wife from there? At some point I think Edwin was living in Nebraska? May not mean anything but worth LE checking out. I don't think Edwin knew Kelsey beforehand but that may not be the case with Kara. Many serial killers and predators use different methods to get their victims.

[Indy Gal]

Anyone besides me notice that Kara's myspace page lists Nebraska? It's right down past her pic on the right hand side under other stats. Wasn't Edwin Hall's wife from there? At some point I think Edwin was living in Nebraska? May not mean anything but worth LE checking out. I don't think Edwin knew Kelsey beforehand but that may not be the case with Kara. Many serial killers and predators use different methods to get their victims.
I dont see it :confused:

[Indy Gal]

I can say I feel like whoever (EH) did this to kelsey did this to Kara, But IMO we cant go off the sketch. I think that was a bad tip and believe she is very close to them just like Kelsey was. I am glad she is getting more media attention now!!!

[txsvicki]

He's not a homely little thing at all. In fact, Kylr Yust is very attractive, in my opinion, and edgy enough (they used to call it 'alternative' in my day.. haha) that a girl with a rebellious streak like Kara would be completely in love with and in fact, she said so herself on her myspace about having 'dedicated the last 9 months of her life' to him. To add to that, seeing the photos of Edwin Hall, with his tattoo, goatee and when his hair was longer and if he was wearing those converse sneakers he would be EXACTLY the sort of guy Kara would not only be attracted to but even feel 'safe' with as he seems to be a lot like her type and one tends to trust one's own type more.

In any case, here's Kylr Yust's photo. (http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r8/cheymarie1506/kylr-yust.jpg)


Kylr is a very attractive boy, and I don't think the guy in the sketch or Hall could even compare to him at all. The guy in the sketch and Hall look like they have something wrong with them, like fetal alcohol syndrome or some genetic problems. I wonder if Hall even had a distinct personality by having his tatoos and goatee or if it was just a cover to blend in and try to attract girls.

[SuziQ]

Kylr is a very attractive boy, and I don't think the guy in the sketch or Hall could even compare to him at all. The guy in the sketch and Hall look like they have something wrong with them, like fetal alcohol syndrome or some genetic problems. I wonder if Hall even had a distinct personality by having his tatoos and goatee or if it was just a cover to blend in and try to attract girls.

Ok, between Huffs and here and Kelsey's thread I feel like I'm putting out fires. Hall does NOT have FAS. People with FAS have no lines running vertically between their upper lips and nose. They usually have deformed ears and their eyes are almost downs like. While Hall may have had some damage done prenatally. It is NOT FAS.

[LionRun]

Ok, between Huffs and here and Kelsey's thread I feel like I'm putting out fires. Hall does NOT have FAS. People with FAS have no lines running vertically between their upper lips and nose. They usually have deformed ears and their eyes are almost downs like. While Hall may have had some damage done prenatally. It is NOT FAS.

I agree with you Suzi. I don't see any signs of fetal alcohol syndrome in him, either. To me he looks like a run of the mill guy, and I wonder if anyone would have looked twice at him in real life previous to all of this.

Lion

[SeriouslySearching]

I agree with you Suzi. I don't see any signs of fetal alcohol syndrome in him, either. To me he looks like a run of the mill guy, and I wonder if anyone would have looked twice at him in real life previous to all of this.

Lion

You may have hit the nail on the head, so to speak, Lion. Maybe no one DID notice Hall previously to this. Could be part of his motive. He didn't get the attention he craved. It would explain why his myspace page etc. were going for the shock value, imo.

I don't see any signs of FAS either. I believe his ego is the biggest issue.

[KBUK]

Thats right Jade-her mother said she left a carton at home (carton has 10 packs in it)


My apologies, I misread carton.. I would never have made the point had I read propoerly :doh:

[Mygirlsadie]

I don't think he looks like he has FAS but he does look creepy with his eyes all spread so far apart and that big nose nothing attractive about him at all like I said looks creepy to me. :silenced:


Kylr is a very attractive boy, and I don't think the guy in the sketch or Hall could even compare to him at all. The guy in the sketch and Hall look like they have something wrong with them, like fetal alcohol syndrome or some genetic problems. I wonder if Hall even had a distinct personality by having his tatoos and goatee or if it was just a cover to blend in and try to attract girls.

[SeriouslySearching]

I hope there is some news on Kara today. (Saying a little prayer for Kara and her family.)

[InterestedNHelping]

I do not think that it is possible to establish motive/guilt by one's appearance. It is often found that mental and emotional damage causes unusual appearance sometimes, but establishing guilt will take another turn other than what his face looks like.
There was a serial killer story that I read, (so long ago, I have forgotten who) that he told police some 20 or years after he had been convicted of many murders, (might be Ted Bundy) that he had first killed a girl when he was very young, and he liked it, so he did it again starting years later, in a different manner and in different places. It is possible that Kara's case could be completely different if she is found deceased, than Kelsey, and yet have the same perp.
Just my opinions, and ideas....

[SuziQ]

I don't think he looks like he has FAS but he does look creepy with his eyes all spread so far apart and that big nose nothing attractive about him at all like I said looks creepy to me. :silenced:

He doesn't do a thing for me either. I guess it just depends on your taste. I do think he looks pretty normal though. I don't even think he looks threatening. Which is to his advantage if he was out trolling for victims.

[LionRun]

He doesn't do a thing for me either. I guess it just depends on your taste. I do think he looks pretty normal though. I don't even think he looks threatening. Which is to his advantage if he was out trolling for victims.

I totally agree with you, SuziQ. And, I really think that he wouldn't be described negatively (not the police video or a police pic--no one looks happy in them) if all of this didn't happen.

Lion

[LionRun]

If Kara had left a full packet of ciggies at home, I doubt she would have had another packet at school. I've smoked for 16 years and never have umpteem packets in different places!

So, if she sneaked out for a ciggie break... who did she get one from?

Although, I don't have a link, chicoliving posted this


FNC is covering this now. Her ATM hasn't been used in a month, no contact with anyone. Everything the same in her bedroom at home including an almost full carton of cigs which her mother points out.


People who buy cigarettes by the carton generally are the type that do not want to run out of cigarettes. The carton was described as almost full. She most likely had a pack with her. Even if the carton was full, she most likely had a pack with her that was from a previous carton. And, even if she had no cigarettes with her, she reportedly went to go have a smoke, so she may have borrowed one from a class mate.

It is even a remote possibility that she went out hoping to find another class mate having a cigarette and planned on asking for one. I think we should not lose site of the bottom line. She reportedly went out to have a smoke and was not seen again(unless the later report was accurate). We can only speculate what we do not know about.

Lion

[SuziQ]

IMO, Kara had gotten out of class to get her book. And saw the opportunity to grab a quick smoke. No one else would have been with her. Otherwise we would have a witness, or suspect. The last person with Kara would be considered a suspect until cleared. I wonder though, where kids at Kara's school go to smoke. Is it on or off school grounds? Is it secluded? Is it by a street? Were other girls aproached by anyone suspicious in the days or weeks prior to Kara's dissapearance? I hope LE is asking all of the questions. Sorry for the crappy spelling and grammer. I'm very tired and sore today. I've been doing big landscaping projects.

[LionRun]

IMO, Kara had gotten out of class to get her book. And saw the opportunity to grab a quick smoke. No one else would have been with her. Otherwise we would have a witness, or suspect. The last person with Kara would be considered a suspect until cleared. I wonder though, where kids at Kara's school go to smoke. Is it on or off school grounds? Is it secluded? Is it by a street? Were other girls aproached by anyone suspicious in the days or weeks prior to Kara's dissapearance? I hope LE is asking all of the questions. Sorry for the crappy spelling and grammer. I'm very tired and sore today. I've been doing big landscaping projects.

Good thinking, and this may have been what happened. I sooo hope that dear Kara is found, but it looks very grim concerning whether nor not she is still alive. I really don't think she ran off leaving her cigarettes, with nothing but the clothes on her back. Oh, and you articulate and spell just fine, SuziQ:).

Lion

[SuziQ]

Lol, thanks. I look at my posts sometimes and think "I was an english major in high school?!" Sheesh.

[Indy Gal]

I don't think he looks like he has FAS but he does look creepy with his eyes all spread so far apart and that big nose nothing attractive about him at all like I said looks creepy to me. :silenced:
Dont kill me here but other than the mugshot, I thought he was attractive. And no I am not in love with a psyco, just pointing out who you may think is ugly, the next person might not agree.

[Indy Gal]

He doesn't do a thing for me either. I guess it just depends on your taste. I do think he looks pretty normal though. I don't even think he looks threatening. Which is to his advantage if he was out trolling for victims.
This has probaly helped him through the years, if he is who we think he is.

[Indy Gal]

Do you think, maybe I am going to far ahead here, But would they offer him a deal in Kelsey's case if he told them where Kara was??

[Indy Gal]

http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=3474185&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.1.1

sorry if this has been posted already.

[bluestarzz]

a prayer for Kara and her family.
anyone from that area know what the police are doing in searching for her? i have not heard anything in several days. :(

[Indy Gal]

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=1d8764b2-6192-4f1d-bdca-cd41e0b00b52

I posted this at Kelsey's thread and will post it here only because of the area and of how much IMO he looks like EH

[anothersheart]

local news reporting video of Kara at school on day she went missing has been released. I will try to find the link and post it here.

[anothersheart]

http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=3483112&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1

Video of Kara at school day she went missing.

[Indy Gal]

http://www.myfoxkc.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=3483112&version=1&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=3.2.1

Video of Kara at school day she went missing.
Thanks for the link!!

I want to know what was said. IMO the friend looked upset by something Kara was saying.

[Alice253]

Here's another video - it starts just a little sooner. Is that a teacher or another student that she talks to? She looks stressed to me.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=260619@kshb.dayport.com,260496@ kshb.dayport.com,259954@kshb.dayport.com,259903@ks hb.dayport.com,259605@kshb.dayport.com,258969@kshb .dayport.com

[anothersheart]

Thanks for the link!!

I want to know what was said. IMO the friend looked upset by something Kara was saying.

Yeah, I wish the video had sound also. Police said the video wasn't released sooner as they wanted to have a chance to talk to the kids in the video. I guess they have by now.

[anothersheart]

Here's another video - it starts just a little sooner. Is that a teacher or another student that she talks to? She looks stressed to me.

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=260619@kshb.dayport.com,260496@ kshb.dayport.com,259954@kshb.dayport.com,259903@ks hb.dayport.com,259605@kshb.dayport.com,258969@kshb .dayport.com

Alice, all I get on this like is a thumbnail picture of a sunset?

[anothersheart]

Alice, all I get on this like is a thumbnail picture of a sunset?

oops, my mistake, clicked on the wrong link.:doh::loser:

[SeriouslySearching]

Great! I am glad they released the video. (I was hoping there would be something new today!)

I don't think her friend looks upset tho. It looked like Kara said something to her and she was 'thinking it over' (putting her hand to her head like she did). Just her body language doesn't fit with being upset to me. I feel it was more 'undecided'. Did Kara just ask her to go smoke and she declined because she was afraid to be late to class perhaps?

I wonder why they haven't released what was being said in the conversation there. It could be quite telling! Don't you think they would have if she had mentioned something upsetting tho?! I do. IMO

[anothersheart]

Great! I am glad they released the video. (I was hoping there would be something new today!)

I don't think her friend looks upset tho. It looked like Kara said something to her and she was 'thinking it over' (putting her hand to her head like she did). Just her body language doesn't fit with being upset to me. I feel it was more 'undecided'. Did Kara just ask her to go smoke and she declined because she was afraid to be late to class perhaps?

I wonder why they haven't released what was being said in the conversation there. It could be quite telling! Don't you think they would have if she had mentioned something upsetting tho?! I do. IMO

Maybe your both right. Didn't her friends say something about cutting class? Maybe she asked this friend for a ride, a smoke, somethings. Her friend thinks it over and says no. Kara is upset cuz she just didn't feel like being at school or something. I remember the spring of my senior year and there were many a day that I would only go to class for tests and then cut out and head to Shawnee Mission Park for some rays until I had to go to work. Just a thought.

[Alice253]

You could be right, SS. I just keep watching it trying to figure it out. I'm sure LE knows what that little exchange was about, though - but I sure would like to know, too!

[Indy Gal]

Great! I am glad they released the video. (I was hoping there would be something new today!)

I don't think her friend looks upset tho. It looked like Kara said something to her and she was 'thinking it over' (putting her hand to her head like she did). Just her body language doesn't fit with being upset to me. I feel it was more 'undecided'. Did Kara just ask her to go smoke and she declined because she was afraid to be late to class perhaps?

I wonder why they haven't released what was being said in the conversation there. It could be quite telling! Don't you think they would have if she had mentioned something upsetting tho?! I do. IMO
I disagree, the way Kara is using her hands, the way the friend when she turned around put out both hands as if to say what, the way she looks mad IMO when she is walking and talking to friend at same time.

[Indy Gal]

You could be right, SS. I just keep watching it trying to figure it out. I'm sure LE knows what that little exchange was about, though - but I sure would like to know, too!
If that friend indeed told the truth.

[JDB]

I can say I feel like whoever (EH) did this to kelsey did this to Kara, But IMO we cant go off the sketch. I think that was a bad tip and believe she is very close to them just like Kelsey was. I am glad she is getting more media attention now!!!

Indy I have to disagree.The sketch Looks so much like the guy Busted for exposing himself it is scary. I sure hop the PD look into that.

[SeriouslySearching]

Do you think, maybe I am going to far ahead here, But would they offer him a deal in Kelsey's case if he told them where Kara was??

NOT A CHANCE! (IMO) Sad to say really...because it could make a huge impact...but I don't think LE would give up this justice to one of their own. I just don't believe LE having the video of him, the truck, and whatever else they may have would outweigh the fact it was ONE of their own's child. They ARE a family. I would say there are no plea deals for Kelsey's life.

They NEED to find Kara and I am certain they are working diligently with the other LE office in that respect.

[greeneyz]

Finally something "new" for this missing girl...hopefully the major networks will air this as well...

[SeriouslySearching]

If that friend indeed told the truth.
Exactly! If they were discussing smoking a joint...she might have lied to keep her "dark secret" from her trusting parents. Sounds cold on her part...but teens are known to be quite selfish when it comes to consequences of them giving up their entire lives to being grounded forever. Just a thought.

[Indy Gal]

Indy I have to disagree.The sketch Looks so much like the guy Busted for exposing himself it is scary. I sure hop the PD look into that.
That sketch IMO is a bad tip. These are my reasons for thinking they are connected.
1. Both girls Names are K
2. Both girls were young
3. Both girls lived very close to EH
4. The girls disappered one month apart to the day
5. Kelseys abducter(EH) IMO has done this before as he was very brave to do this in the way he did it.

So in thinking that the two are connected I am left to think Kara has already passed and is very close to where she dissapered from. Why would EH keep her alive?

But I do agree that they look alike, Thats why I brought it up.

[Indy Gal]

NOT A CHANCE! (IMO) Sad to say really...because it could make a huge impact...but I don't think LE would give up this justice to one of their own. I just don't believe LE having the video of him, the truck, and whatever else they may have would outweigh the fact it was ONE of their own's child. They ARE a family. I would say there are no plea deals for Kelsey's life.
I guess thats good and bad. Maybe he will just tell because he feels bad and want the truth to be told:rolleyes:

[nanandjim]

NOT A CHANCE! (IMO) Sad to say really...because it could make a huge impact...but I don't think LE would give up this justice to one of their own. I just don't believe LE having the video of him, the truck, and whatever else they may have would outweigh the fact it was ONE of their own's child. They ARE a family. I would say there are no plea deals for Kelsey's life.
I think that they may take the death penalty off of the table if he offers up other victims. He would still get LWOP. They probably would keep Kelsey's parents in the loop. I can well imagine that Kelsey's parents would want resolution for other victims' parents, if there are any.

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't know...Correct me if I am wrong...but don't I recall an interview of the parents and John (BF) that agreed the DP was what they wanted?! Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought it was brought up.

I would look it up, but my mind and body are exhausted tonite. Sorry!

[nanandjim]

I don't know...Correct me if I am wrong...but don't I recall an interview of the parents and John (BF) that agreed the DP was what they wanted?! Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought it was brought up.

The parents (with John agreeing) said that they were leaving the decision up to the prosecutor. I believe the prosecutor has said, at this time, that the death penalty is an option. He may be using it as leverage.

[SeriouslySearching]

Ah, OK! Well...I don't know then. Maybe they would accept LWOP if he gave up other victims.

Oh! Of course...they probably would...they seem like such loving people.

[anothersheart]

I don't know...Correct me if I am wrong...but don't I recall an interview of the parents and John (BF) that agreed the DP was what they wanted?! Maybe I misunderstood, but I thought it was brought up.

I would look it up, but my mind and body are exhausted tonite. Sorry!

I do not know how familiar you are with Kansas and the DP but there is little to no fear of that here, espically with Kline in office. That is why I was hoping for federal charges and/or charges in MO where there is the chance for the DP.

Maybe it is not to late for additional charges that would help with getting the DP, but I could see them using it as a "bargaining" tool to find Kara and (heaven forbid) any other victims.

[Indy Gal]

The only thing I feel for sure is who ever did this to Kelsey did this before!!

[anothersheart]

http://www.k-state.edu/amnestyintl/deathpen.html

2005 Kansas Death Penalty Rules

[SeriouslySearching]

I do not know how familiar you are with Kansas and the DP but there is little to no fear of that here, espically with Kline in office. That is why I was hoping for federal charges and/or charges in MO where there is the chance for the DP.

Maybe it is not to late for additional charges that would help with getting the DP, but I could see them using it as a "bargaining" tool to find Kara and (heaven forbid) any other victims.

No, I am not familiar with Kansas politics. (Maybe we need to take a serious look at it tho!)

I knew people were wanting this case to go to MO...but I didn't know why. Oklahoma has it's quirks in DP cases, too. I didn't know it wasn't "really" a DP case unless your victim dies a slow, painful death and so they overturn the conviction of DP to LWOP in such cases. (One of my good friends was shot several times in a parking garage..both back n front..but by the legal terminology...she didn't suffer long enough with knowledge she was going to die. cusscusscussravenrant)

[Indy Gal]

http://www.k-state.edu/amnestyintl/deathpen.html

2005 Kansas Death Penalty Rules
Thanks Honey, that was a short nap?

[SeriouslySearching]

The only thing I feel for sure is who ever did this to Kelsey did this before!!

I totally agree. He is 'practiced' in his "art".

[anothersheart]

Thanks Honey, that was a short nap?

Couldn't get my mind to stop so I gave in and just had a snack.

[bluestarzz]

EH is no "newby" to the challenge, i agree whole heatadly (sp?) lol.
are they taking dogs to search all of the area around kelsey? has anyone heard? they need to. never know how many are there......
blue

[Indy Gal]

EH is no "newby" to the challenge, i agree whole heatadly (sp?) lol.
are they taking dogs to search all of the area around kelsey? has anyone heard? they need to. never know how many are there......
blue
I hope so because I truely feel like she will be found in that area. It just had to be the same person, right?

[JDB]

That sketch IMO is a bad tip. These are my reasons for thinking they are connected.
1. Both girls Names are K
2. Both girls were young
3. Both girls lived very close to EH
4. The girls disappered one month apart to the day
5. Kelseys abducter(EH) IMO has done this before as he was very brave to do this in the way he did it.

So in thinking that the two are connected I am left to think Kara has already passed and is very close to where she dissapered from. Why would EH keep her alive?

But I do agree that they look alike, Thats why I brought it up.

Go Back several years to the ones that wnt Missing in Calif. Start with Amber Schwartz and work forward.HAs it ever occured there are TWO preps in the area? EH had nothing to do with Kara going missing IMO

[Indy Gal]

Go Back several years to the ones that wnt Missing in Calif. Start with Amber Schwartz and work forward.HAs it ever occured there are TWO preps in the area? EH had nothing to do with Kara going missing IMO
And I will agree they may not be connected. But I really feel as if they are. But it will be nice to debate it with you!!:D

[JDB]

And I will agree they may not be connected. But I really feel as if they are. But it will be nice to debate it with you!!:D

You tell me why EH has anything to do with Kara?I do not see it.And do you know if anyone ran a record for the Preparrested. Sorry bad with names right now.I feel they are two seprate crimes with two preps. Just because the names start with K is no big thing. Again look at the skecth and the one arrested for expousre.They are the same

[bluestarzz]

I really have this feeling that EH has killed before, maybe more than once before Kelsey, I think he got brazen cause several others had gone so well for him. :(

[Indy Gal]

You tell me why EH has anything to do with Kara?I do not see it.And do you know if anyone ran a record for the Preparrested. Sorry bad with names right now.I feel they are two seprate crimes with two preps. Just because the names start with K is no big thing. Again look at the skecth and the one arrested for expousre.They are the same
That sketch was taken a couple of weeks later. So if you are thinking the sketch is true than she is still alive? Also if you read further than one you would see my other reasons. What are you ideas of why the are not connected and why do you believe the sketch thing.

[Indy Gal]

I really have this feeling that EH has killed before, maybe more than once before Kelsey, I think he got brazen cause several others had gone so well for him. :(
So come back over to the other thread silly. I am just trying as hard as it will be to keep these seperate, unless there becomes a reason to join them.

Do you believe the two are connected. I think whoever(EH) did this to kelsey practiced on Kara as sad as that may sound. And this is why he wasnt scared in daylight with people right there.

[bluestarzz]

who posted the sketch thingy of points of interest on his face? I don't remember, was way back on kelsey posts, anyhow, after I saw that and started looking at the POI sketch on Kara, omg, I could see theh similarities between the the 2, ......got to remember, artists sketches aren't going to be perfect ...
blue

[anothersheart]

So come back over to the other thread silly. I am just trying as hard as it will be to keep these seperate, unless there becomes a reason to join them.

Do you believe the two are connected. I think whoever(EH) did this to kelsey practiced on Kara as sad as that may sound. And this is why he wasnt scared in daylight with people right there.

I agree with you Indy ( I say that alot) :o

I think there are way too many similarities to be ignored. I am sure we will know more in the day/weeks to come.

I sure hope there are not 2 people this crazy/brazen at the same time in my neighborhood. (Probably is just don't want to believe there is)

[Indy Gal]

who posted the sketch thingy of points of interest on his face? I don't remember, was way back on kelsey posts, anyhow, after I saw that and started looking at the POI sketch on Kara, omg, I could see theh similarities between the the 2, ......got to remember, artists sketches aren't going to be perfect ...
blue
But again this sketch was i think 2 weeks after she was missing. A sighting at a rest. So thinking the sketch is true IMO would lead me to believe she is alive with this man somewhere. Where was the sighting again? I remember it wasnt near there.

[Indy Gal]

I agree with you Indy ( I say that alot) :o

I think there are way too many similarities to be ignored. I am sure we will know more in the day/weeks to come.

I sure hope there are not 2 people this crazy/brazen at the same time in my neighborhood. (Probably is just don't want to believe there is)
I will be thinking of you and your daughter, Stay Safe!!!

It is possible there are 2, but I dont believe so.

[JDB]

That sketch was taken a couple of weeks later. So if you are thinking the sketch is true than she is still alive? Also if you read further than one you would see my other reasons. What are you ideas of why the are not connected and why do you believe the sketch thing.

Good possibity of her of Kara being alive weeks later.Like I said anyone find the crimnal reacord on the exposure guy?Someone like that would keep a person alive for sometime.Which would be the reason he came back out in public. EH on the other hand.Was tracking or following his victim.

[SeriouslySearching]

I hope so because I truely feel like she will be found in that area. It just had to be the same person, right?
What did you mean by that?

[anothersheart]

But again this sketch was i think 2 weeks after she was missing. A sighting at a rest. So thinking the sketch is true IMO would lead me to believe she is alive with this man somewhere. Where was the sighting again? I remember it wasnt near there.

The "sighting" was in Louisburg Kansas. About 20 minutes or so from Olathe.

My thoughts:

Kelsey abducted in Kansas found in Missouri.

Kara (Reverse ?)
Abducted in Missouri find in Kansas??

EH lives in Olathe, Kansas but use to live in Missouri.

I wish I was good at mapping because this would be clearer on a map. What I am getting to is reverse location of the crime on Kelsey. Just my thoughts.

What is Kara was picked up in Belton on EH's way home to Olathe. Perhaps stopping with her at the convience store?? in Louisburg (out of the most direct path like Kelsey). With the delay in media coverage the "sighting" may indeed have been off in their day/time. And dumping her in Kansas? Just my thoughts.

[Indy Gal]

What did you mean by that?
He asked if they were searching where kelsey was found.

[Indy Gal]

The "sighting" was in Louisburg Kansas. About 20 minutes or so from Olathe.

My thoughts:

Kelsey abducted in Kansas found in Missouri.

Kara (Reverse ?)
Abducted in Missouri find in Kansas??

EH lives in Olathe, Kansas but use to live in Missouri.

I wish I was good at mapping because this would be clearer on a map. What I am getting to is reverse location of the crime on Kelsey. Just my thoughts.

What is Kara was picked up in Belton on EH's way home to Olathe. Perhaps stopping with her at the convience store?? in Louisburg (out of the most direct path like Kelsey). With the delay in media coverage the "sighting" may indeed have been off in their day/time. And dumping her in Kansas? Just my thoughts.
I agree, who is good with maps. We will get the info for you!

[SeriouslySearching]

He asked if they were searching where kelsey was found.
OH, OK!

[SeriouslySearching]

I agree, who is good with maps. We will get the info for you!
I am pretty good with maps. >wink< What info?!

[SeriouslySearching]

My idea is that if this predator was anywhere within a 50 mile radius of Kara and Kelsey in a month's time more or less...and they resemble any traits of the other's vanishing to cause warrant of both parents to take notice...there is a possible connection on that alone. (I didn't not mean to suggest the appearance of the perp, but the MO)

[Indy Gal]

So here is what we need to map
1. where Kara went missing
2. where Kelsey went missing
3. where EH lives
4. where kelsey was found

AH did I miss anything?

[Indy Gal]

SS see post 208 for more needed map info

[txsvicki]

Ok, between Huffs and here and Kelsey's thread I feel like I'm putting out fires. Hall does NOT have FAS. People with FAS have no lines running vertically between their upper lips and nose. They usually have deformed ears and their eyes are almost downs like. While Hall may have had some damage done prenatally. It is NOT FAS.

Well, he's ugly as all get out, inside and out and definitely has something wrong with him. His eyes do look like something is wrong to me. I didn't say he definitely has FAS. I'm no physician to be making a diagnosis. I just said that he looks like he has something wrong that affected his physical looks.

[SeriouslySearching]

SS see post 208 for more needed map info

THANKS!

[Indy Gal]

THANKS!
No thank you for helping us!!

[Beyond Belief]

Now that the video is out, does anyone think the shirt she has on at school has sleeves, short but sleeves. The flyer says white tank top.
Also in earlier posts there was mention of leaving class to go smoke. Is there a designated smoking area at the school? Do we have a layout of the school to see exactly how far she would have to go? At what time does she leave the school, what does she have with her?
Also the interaction with this other student seems very strange. Why so few students coming out of that class room? Why so few students moving through the hall?
Was she passing all her classes? What would the parents reaction be, if she was failing a class for the year?
Were any friends of the x bf interested in her? What were her opinions of what OLD was? What were her plans for the future? Was she familiar with other parts of the country? Was there really enough money left in her account to even be concerned with?
And where did she work?

[txsvicki]

Just thought I would add this:

"Note: Facial characteristics may not be as apparent immediately after birth or during adolescence or adulthood as they are between the ages of two and ten. Facial characteristics may not be present at all if the mother did not drink alcohol during the brief period that the midface was forming - around the 20th day of pregnancy."

EH does have a small head and flattened cheeks but not the other physical signs. He does seem to have most of the behavior problems that go along with FAS and FASD (spectrum disorders). Of course those behaviors such as trouble getting along with and relating to others go along with lots of problems.

[SeriouslySearching]

I wish they would check the East side of the lake (Longview) in an area that might have lots of curves..between the areas of the picnic area and Shoreline trail. (I had a lot more to say, but should not.)

[strach304]

here is Kara's myspace page which has been altered to include her disappearance. Thought I'd post it here since I brought up the Nebraska thing. It's listed on the side of her 1st pic right under her age. Further down the page it lists her school and Belton, Mo. What's the Nebraska connection? Is she from there?
http://www.myspace.com/findkarakopetsky

Also a petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/747950459#body

[anothersheart]

So here is what we need to map
1. where Kara went missing
2. where Kelsey went missing
3. where EH lives
4. where kelsey was found

AH did I miss anything?

Sorry, Indy. My computer shut down. I know you won't be able to get back to me until after 3:30 Indy time.

I think if we could map the loactions known in Kelsey's case including the pings and the location of EH work/home, Kara's school, home, and possible sighting. I think we would see almost a complete circle of activity and may be clearer what I am trying to get at. Who knows.

[anothersheart]

I wish they would check the East side of the lake (Longview) in an area that might have lots of curves..between the areas of the picnic area and Shoreline trail. (I had a lot more to say, but should not.)

SS, I wish they would listen to you. You were right with Kelsey. Giving me chills.

[MissieMt]

I wish they would check the East side of the lake (Longview) in an area that might have lots of curves..between the areas of the picnic area and Shoreline trail. (I had a lot more to say, but should not.)
SS, this should be called in!!

[SieSie]

I just posted this on Kelsey's thread #9 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50274) and wanted to be sure it was posted here, as well, because it's about the possible connection between Kelsey & Kara and if Edwin Hall could be involved in Kara's abduction.

Here's a link to the Google map (http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=104907354445659811135.0000011329beacfd9769e&om=1&ll=38.891567,-94.678116&spn=2.697708,4.669189&z=8) I made, regarding Edwin Hall, Kelsey Smith and Kara Kopetsky.

Note: I do not know the exact location where Kelsey's body was found in Longview Lake Park area. I also do not know the route that was taken, so I just drew straight lines from location to location.

Here are some images from the Google map, so it's here on this site, as well as the external link provided above, in which there are more descriptions and you can zoom in and move the map, etc...

Map Legend:
http://i7.tinypic.com/4zbbx2o.jpg

Zoomed out to show diamond and square shading that surrounds the points of interest:
http://i16.tinypic.com/68i8thx.jpg

Zoomed in to the max where all the points are in the window (you can zoom in further at the link, but will have to move the map to see the other points):
http://i12.tinypic.com/4p4vbbq.jpg

If I find out the exact location (or at least a rough idea) of WHERE in the park Kelsey's body was found, I'll adjust the lines and stuff on the map.

[passin_through]

Fox news is about to run the video and discuss this

[SuziQ]

Wow! What great work going on here. A reminder about the composite sketch in Kara's case. Let's not be so quick to discount it. It could lead to the perp. Wether it's Hall or not.

Here is what I posted previously about the sketch:

06-12-2007, 02:48 PM
SuziQ (http://websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=16842) http://websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_1528910", true);
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 91


I have to add to the sighting that resulted in the composite photo. It originated at an eatery or convenience store. It must of been a pretty podunk place to not have a video. Or the video was taped over. The first article I read about the sighting was on May 23rd. In that article it says the sighting was a "couple of weeks before". What does that mean? Did the people sighted her tell LE that that they saw her a few weeks back. that could mean as much as three weeks, IMO. Or did the paper not publish the info for several days? Start at May 23rd. Go back two weeks, that's now May 9th. Take away a few days for the above stated generalities, the sighting could have happened on May 4th. If the girl sighted was really Kara. Then I believe the sighting happened the day she disappeared as something happened to her that very day to keep her from using her cell phone and bank account.

[strach304]

Sorry, Indy. My computer shut down. I know you won't be able to get back to me until after 3:30 Indy time.

I think if we could map the loactions known in Kelsey's case including the pings and the location of EH work/home, Kara's school, home, and possible sighting. I think we would see almost a complete circle of activity and may be clearer what I am trying to get at. Who knows.

All of those maps that also included the cell tower pings were on the Kelsey thread. That's why I wish we had a forum for her because we'd have all that seperated and not lost on page 18 part 6, 7 or 8.

[SuziQ]

I can't seem to be able to edit my posts. I meant to also add that as of yesterday fox was still saying the sketch was from two weeks ago. I guess they are too lazy to look at a calendar. :doh:

[SuziQ]

Hall seems to have a preference for malls and schools, ie; Kelsey and Kara.

Diane Ulry told police she encountered Hall near Westridge Middle School just six weeks before Smith's kidnapping and only four blocks away from the Target store where Kelsey was kidnapped.

During her lunch hour, Ulry would take walks just north of Oak Park Mall. She said when she first learned of Smith's disappearance, she thought the surveillance video of the suspect looked familiar

http://tinyurl.com/3yujef

[NewMommy09]

So here is what we need to map
1. where Kara went missing
2. where Kelsey went missing
3. where EH lives
4. where kelsey was found

AH did I miss anything?

There is a map with all of these points mapped on one of Kara's myspace website, it's either the findkarakopetsky myspace, or one of her friends from Kara's myspace Melonmouth08. Sorry, can't access myspace from work to verify or provide links.

[NewMommy09]

Also, I have been conversing with a friend of Kara's by internet. I am keeping him anonymous because I don't want to cause problems for him or have a bunch of people start contacting him. He has answered alot of questions for me, which I have posted at CTV in Kara's thread. I use the same name there - StillHoping.
I intend to repost alot of that info here, but will not have a chance until this weekend.

I wanted to note that: Kara's friend feels very sure that Kylr Yust is involved in her disappearance, and he claims that he KNOWS Kylr was with Kara that day, even though Kylr has told LE otherwise and apparently has an alibi.

The Restraining Order Kara took out against Kylr was due to a situation where he kidnapped her and she ended up jumping from his moving truck about 3 to 4 miles later.

Thanks to you all for keeping Kara in your minds. I do not know her personally, but she deserves all the interest Kelsey has gotten.

[SuziQ]

SieSie, great work on that map! I've been looking at it all morning.

Seriouslysearching, I wonder if Kelsey was found at the west end of the lake? BTW, I like your thinking.

[SuziQ]

Stillhoping, Kylr would be the most logical suspect. I hope LE hasn't abandoned the Kylr aspect just because of an alibi. Here is a local story that's been ongoing for about a decade. Shows you how good alibi's are:

Jeppson is charged with lying to grand jurors when he described seeing Olsen and the other man the day Kiplyn vanished. Another count alleges he lied when he denied saying, or hearing someone else say, something about disposing of the girl's body.
In the other two indictments:
l Fellow Spanish Fork High School student Scott Brunson is accused of lying to agents by denying he had been approached about providing a false alibi and saying he never heard anyone talk about Kiplyn's disappearance.
Brunson denied a male had asked him to say they had been shingling a shed together that day. Olsen is accused of lying when he denied asking "Scott" to say they were shingling a shed.
l Garry Von Blackmore, a friend from nearby Salem, is accused of lying by denying ever speaking to anyone about Kiplyn's disappearance. In court, prosecutors said that two years after Kiplyn disappeared, Blackmore and another man asked a friend for help moving a body.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3299325

[SeriouslySearching]

SieSie, great work on that map! I've been looking at it all morning.

Seriouslysearching, I wonder if Kelsey was found at the west end of the lake? BTW, I like your thinking.

I believe Kelsey was found at the southeast end of the lake at the fork of two trails. The exact address they found Kelsey was 139th and Byers Road, Grandview, MO according to the Kansas City Star. com. (Sorry...wrong map!)

I just think it seems a reasonable place to look for Kara. It would make sense to go back to the same area with Kelsey if he didn't get caught before.

[NewMommy09]

Stillhoping, Kylr would be the most logical suspect. I hope LE hasn't abandoned the Kylr aspect just because of an alibi. Here is a local story that's been ongoing for about a decade. Shows you how good alibi's are:

Jeppson is charged with lying to grand jurors when he described seeing Olsen and the other man the day Kiplyn vanished. Another count alleges he lied when he denied saying, or hearing someone else say, something about disposing of the girl's body.
In the other two indictments:
l Fellow Spanish Fork High School student Scott Brunson is accused of lying to agents by denying he had been approached about providing a false alibi and saying he never heard anyone talk about Kiplyn's disappearance.
Brunson denied a male had asked him to say they had been shingling a shed together that day. Olsen is accused of lying when he denied asking "Scott" to say they were shingling a shed.
l Garry Von Blackmore, a friend from nearby Salem, is accused of lying by denying ever speaking to anyone about Kiplyn's disappearance. In court, prosecutors said that two years after Kiplyn disappeared, Blackmore and another man asked a friend for help moving a body.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_3299325


OMG, you just gave me major chills that you posted Kiplyn Davis' story. I have followed it for some time as I was born and raised in Utah. I think Kylr is the most likely suspect too. I just hope that doesn't make people lose interest if Hall wasn't involved. Do you have any "gut feelings" on this SeriouslySearching?

[SeriouslySearching]

I wanted to note that: Kara's friend feels very sure that Kylr Yust is involved in her disappearance, and he claims that he KNOWS Kylr was with Kara that day, even though Kylr has told LE otherwise and apparently has an alibi.

I hope he isn't keeping this knowledge from the police. (I also would remind you to not believe everything this person tells you since you have no real way of knowing who you are talking to online.)

Could you ask this guy where people at his HS went to smoke and about the area around their 'smoke hole'?

[Indy Gal]

Great job all and thanks for that map!!!

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't think Yust is involved in Kara's disappearance. He would be a likely suspect by the nature of his relationship with Kara and his past behaviors, I agree...but the police have cleared him.

[Monika30]

Here's a map (http://tinyurl.com/yudnfx) I started on June 10th. It has the following mapped out (after I figured out that google has this nifty option!)

Kelsey:
Target, Macy's, exact location of body found in Longview Lake area

Hall's residences (previous and current)

Kara:
Popeyes (her job), Belton High School (where she was last seen)

If anyone has anything to add please let me know and i'll update.

[Indy Gal]

Here's a map (http://tinyurl.com/yudnfx) I started on June 10th. It has the following mapped out (after I figured out that google has this nifty option!)

Kelsey:
Target, Macy's, exact location of body found in Longview Lake area

Hall's residences (previous and current)

Kara:
Popeyes (her job), Belton High School (where she was last seen)

If anyone has anything to add please let me know and i'll update.

Thank you so much!!!

OMG so if he lived that close to Kara just a couple of months ago, maybe he did know her. I just find this all too strange that 2 girls are missing in the same area of this man. I could be wrong, But I dont not think I am!!

[Indy Gal]

I don't think Yust is involved in Kara's disappearance. He would be a likely suspect by the nature of his relationship with Kara and his past behaviors, I agree...but the police have cleared him.

I dont think he did it, but maybe its possible he had it done. I dont know, I feel strongly that who did this (EH) to kelsey did this to Kara and everyday IMO I see more and more everyday to make me think that.

[SeriouslySearching]

I totally agree that EH, if proven to be guilty of Kelsey's abduction and murder, would be exactly the person to look at for Kara's disappearance.

[luvbeaches]

I just saw the video of her in the school. I wonder why it has taken so long for this to be shown to the public. And didn't I hear her parents say that they just saw it for the first time?

Does this school not have cameras in the parking lot? If they do, I wonder what the video shows?

From what I saw, she looked like a happy camper. She didn't look upset to me. So did she leave the school after this?

[luvbeaches]

Here is another messege. I just asked who I was speaking with so I will let you know as soon as I do!! Can some of the experianced WSers help her out. Just messege the find kara myspace here.


http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=194064105&MyToken=ccf7949c-8bde-4c21-aaa0-48a47c86a49e

I have not been able to get on that site to post. For some reason when I try to register it won't let me, and it it not letting me post without being registered. I apologize for the confusion. I am computer illiterate at times...

If you would please just pass this along from us it would be great.

I'm not sure what to suggest, as I am not very good with computers. There's an email address in the "contact us" area (at the bottom). I can't remember if you have to have a "real" email address, or if they will accept AOL or the others. And I seem to remember something with AOL...and there being a problem...but maybe not.

[Indy Gal]

I'm not sure what to suggest, as I am not very good with computers. There's an email address in the "contact us" area (at the bottom). I can't remember if you have to have a "real" email address, or if they will accept AOL or the others. And I seem to remember something with AOL...and there being a problem...but maybe not.
You and me just alike like usual! I cant do anything on a computer. I know how to get here and a few other spots but that is the extint.

[Tom'sGirl]

You and me just alike like usual! I cant do anything on a computer. I know how to get here and a few other spots but that is the extint.

Indy, if she's reading here then she's linked to:
http://websleuths.com/forums/index.php

All she has to do is register!

[Indy Gal]

I am speaking with her now, I asked why it wont let her. Awaiting reply but she is online right now.

[anothersheart]

And another message. I am going to tell her to email Tricia, I think on the front page it has her email.


Yeah it asks me to regester and then whenever i try it just wont let me idk...It just doesn't register....i really don't know.
Alright i will keep trying to figure it out...thank you so much.

When it wouldn't let me register it has an error stating invalid email address. If I recall it was in smaller print on the page after submitting. Kinda to the right.