Who was George Brody?

[Dr. Doogie]

All discussion about the true identity of George Brody should go here on this new thread. Thanks.

[Dr. Doogie]

We still have some outstanding questions that the Kukodas are helping us answer, but one exciting (yet confounding) tidbit is that when Margaret left for California, she went with her "boyfriend" who was named Russell. It was evidently Russell who then sent Margaret's ashes back to her family after her death. Yet we know that it was Brody who had power-of-attorney over Margaret and her estate, so it would make sense he would be the one who sent the ashes. But...the Kukoda who meet Russell says that she does not recoginize the pictures we have of Brody as being the same person as Russell. So we end up with three possible scenarios:

*Brody is Russell, and time has played tricks on the memory of the Kukoda who met him.

*Brody is not Russell. It is possible that Margaret come to California with a Russell, drifted apart, and later met Brody who was the one who sent the ashes. The family member may have remembered Russell as the boyfriend when Margaret left for San Francisco, then when a different boyfriend then sent the ashes, assumed that it was the same person.

*Brody is not Russell, but Russell was still involved with Margaret when she passed away. Knowing the way that Brody either drove apart relationships or drew loved ones into his web, if Russell was still around at this point, he would have had to have been a Brody disciple also. Brody could have had power-of-attorney, but Russell was the one who actual mailed the ashes. One kink in this theory is that there did not appear to be a Russell involved with Brody when he met Waters.

The questions raised above are those that we are trying to nail down with the Kukodas' help.

[kyresearcher]

Doogie, did you see the power of attorney papers listing Brody as the person over Margarets estate? Wouldn't he have had to lists his social security # or birthdate to do this?
As for Russell, didn't you have a piece of paper in the BFH where GW had done test on a person the day Anna went missing with the initals R something (sorry don't remember the last inital and too lazy to look it up) ha ha Could this "RUSSELL" have been the person he saw in the clinic?
Keep digging, I am sure you will find out who he is..

[mfmangel1]

P.O.A.s do not require a social security number or birthdate of the appointed P.O.A. on the documentation.

It should be witnessed and notarized.

[natasha-cupcake]

I keep coming back to the fact that Margaret Kukoda used to call Brody by the first name "Bobby". My gut feeling is that "Bobby" is a nickname for his real first name. The obvious one being Robert, but others are possible. My uncle has been called Bobby his whole life, but his given name is Baldasario! I kid you not! It's Italian and, of course, he's despised it his entire life. But that's beside the point.

It seems to me that "Russell" is more likely to be Brody/Bobby than a separate person. The question is (and always has been) what is Brody's real name? Russell may have been an alias, or Margaret's sister may not be accurate in her memory. Russell may also have been his last name. If Brody was always as shady or as mentally bizarre as he seemed when he was with GW, then he may have always used aliases. I believe that Brody's bizarre persona is based partly on his inherent character. But I've also always had the impression that there is a criminal or immoral incident in his early life that set him on a path of hidden identity. I think he either committed a criminal act, or was a draft dodger, or a con artist, or on the wrong side of someone in organized crime, or some similar explanation.

Because she is quite elderly, the state of Margaret's sister's memory could be a major issue. But thank God she is still alive since she is a very valuable source of original information. The "Russell" name is intriguing, but not knowing a complete name, it may just be a red herring. I think the secret is buried in the details of what she may remember about Margaret and "Russell" before they left for California. Is there anyway at all to get a tape recorder and encourage her to simply talk about her life and Margaret's life in the years immediately prior to, and after, Margaret left for California? There may be details in her narrative that could potentially offer more clues.

Also, we have to remember that although I think it's important to solve the "Brody Mystery", it may never lead to significant headway in discovering what happened to Anna. I think it's possible that IF we discover some clues about Brody, we may find that he MAY have had some responsibility in Anna's disappearance and that MAY lead to information on where Anna is now. I think that publicizing Anna's story may be just as important, probably more so, because it may help us uncover more people like our kind friend "C".

I know I'm rambling a little bit, but what I mean is that we need to look for Anna by tracking her both in the past, and in the present.

[Cubby]

Do we know when/ and or why Margaret left for California? Perhaps Russell is Brody, and the Kukoda relative would not recognize the pictures if Brody/Russell left as a young man. Might be interesting to have an age regression photo(s) done of Brody from those older pictures. - possibly to the time Margaret left with Russel.

I don't recall whether or not it was known who posted bail for Margaret back in the 50's. Could that hold a clue?

Also, could the Mary Kay be a nickname based on using her middle name? Was her full name Margaret Mary? and Kay just be the phonetic spelling for K?

If Russell was not Brody, do we know if this is a first or last name, and if a first name would Margarets family happen to know of a last name? Perhaps Margaret left him, and he still held on, and for whatever reason, possibly Margaret feeling sorry for him convinced Brody to remain active in their lives. Brody doesn't strike me as the kind of person who would have done something for someone unless it benefited him in some way, and perhaps after Margarets death, there was no longer any benefit to him so he allowed Russell to take care of the contact with her family.

Do we know anything about this Russels interests or history that might match up with Brody?

[InterestedNHelping]

Thanks Doogie for the info...everyone seems to have alot of viable theories, I hope that each one can be researched and then maybe a sub thread to rule in or out each one, maybe? That way we won't be going 40 directions with no thorough ending to each?
That 'Russell' name adds some more intrigue to the mix! Here we go again! I am still here, and won't give up until the end result is finding Anna!

[GraceBlue]

Thats great the Kukoda family was able to provide some information.

I looked up and looked up different names with Russell. Did the Kukoda family say whether 'Russell' was his last or first name?

I did a search on the SSDI for someone whoses last name was Russell and died in SF on Dec 1981. Here is what I came up with:

JAMES RUSSELL b.15 Mar 1915 d.Dec 1981 94080 (South San Francisco, San Mateo, CA)

I have no idea if thats where GW and 'GB' lived (South SF) It doesnt fit in the category of GB claiming he was a Leo since this James was born in March.

ETA: Honestly, I think 'GB' was born way before 1915. Possibly 1900 or even the late 1890s. My grandfather was born in 1909 and died in 1983. When he died he didnt look nearly as old as GB did in the pictures I've seen of him.
Is it possible to look up military records for a Russell?

[Dr. Doogie]

Thats great the Kukoda family was able to provide some information.

Yes, they have been very helpful.


I looked up and looked up different names with Russell. Did the Kukoda family say whether 'Russell' was his last or first name?

I believe that Russell was the first name.

I did a search on the SSDI for someone whoses last name was Russell and died in SF on Dec 1981. Here is what I came up with:

JAMES RUSSELL b.15 Mar 1915 d.Dec 1981 94080 (South San Francisco, San Mateo, CA)

I have no idea if thats where GW and 'GB' lived (South SF) It doesnt fit in the category of GB claiming he was a Leo since this James was born in March.

South San Francisco is a different city in a different county. Brody's death certificate was issued by San Francisco and there is no connection between the two Georges and South SF. This is most likely someone else.

ETA: Honestly, I think 'GB' was born way before 1915. Possibly 1900 or even the late 1890s. My grandfather was born in 1909 and died in 1983. When he died he didnt look nearly as old as GB did in the pictures I've seen of him.

I agree.

Is it possible to look up military records for a Russell?

Without a last name, it would seem impossible.

[GraceBlue]

On SSDI I found a Russell Brubaker who was born Aug 15 1900 and died Dec 1981 and is from Pennsylvania HOWEVER it said his last residence was Pennsylvania (not California) Hmm

[Dr. Doogie]

On SSDI I found a Russell Brubaker who was born Aug 15 1900 and died Dec 1981 and is from Pennsylvania HOWEVER it said his last residence was Pennsylvania (not California) Hmm

Didn't Brody claim his birthday was August 15th, 1925? (Somebody help me here!) This looks real interesting.

[GraceBlue]

According to 'his' myspace page he claimed his birthday was Aug 15 1923

http://www.myspace.com/georgebrody

[Dr. Doogie]

Didn't Brody claim his birthday was August 15th, 1925?

Found it! August 15th, 1923. One of the medical bills for Brody mentions a birth year of 1935, which is just patently ridiculous. A 1900 birth year definitely fits with how old he looked.

This may be our guy. Anybody want to due a genealogical search on Russell Brubaker?

[Dr. Doogie]

According to 'his' myspace page he claimed his birthday was Aug 15 1923

http://www.myspace.com/georgebrody

You beat me to the punch! Thanks, GB.

[GraceBlue]

I did a quick search on Rootsweb.com but didnt find anything. I need to go now because my daughter is up from her nap boohoo I'll look some more later!!

[Dr. Doogie]

Thanks, GraceBlue.

So what we have is a man who has the same first name as the man who travelled to California with Maragret during WWII. This man has the same birthday as Brody with a plausible birth year. He was from Pennsylvania like Margaret and we suspect Brody was. We know that he is listed as dying the same month and year as Brody died.

I have often wondered why Brody (who seemed to have been at least partially motivated by money) would not have been collecting social security checks (remember, no known SS number). It may be that he had parallel identities: one as Brody who was born in 1923 and one as Brubaker who was drawing SS checks.

[SherlockJr]

This is from a newspaper archive from June 7, 1956 ....age doesn't match up. But still finding articles on this Russell Brubaker in the 1960's in Pa. Doubt he is GB, but could have taken his identity.

Allegheny County grand Jury returned Indictments Tuesday against RUSSELL BRUBAKER, 48, a former automobile dealer, and Thomas Stepp, 32. Unable to raise bond, they have remained in jail since their arrest May 3 at a Washington, Pa., motel. The men are accused of duping owners of expensive cars by pur- chasing the automobiles by check, then ...

[GraceBlue]

I did a search on SSDI with BLANK first name and BLANK last name but with the birthdate of Aug 15 and death date of Dec 1981. Here is what I found:

-KARLE SCHERZER 15 Aug 1881 Dec 1981 94123 (San Francisco, San Francisco, CA)

I know its a totally different name but the interesting thing is the surname Scherzer is from Czechoslovakia/Austria. I remember there was a discussion whether or not GB came from that area? Was there?

[Annasmom]

I did a search on SSDI with BLANK first name and BLANK last name but with the birthdate of Aug 15 and death date of Dec 1981. Here is what I found:

-KARLE SCHERZER 15 Aug 1881 Dec 1981 94123 (San Francisco, San Francisco, CA)

I know its a totally different name but the interesting thing is the surname Scherzer is from Czechoslovakia/Austria. I remember there was a discussion whether or not GB came from that area? Was there? I'm almost positive that GB was born in the US. This was a great idea, looking for the dates with blank first and last names, though I think this person is too old--a hundred years old when he died! I would make GB's birth date probably about 1902. He must have been about 65 when I met him in 1967.

[GraceBlue]

Annasmom- I THINK Scherzer was born in the US. I was just doing a quick search on Rootsweb.com when I saw Austria/Czechoslovakia. I did some more searching and there are families with the last name Scherzer in Pennsylvania.

Are you sure GB was about 65 when you met him? Is there ANY chance he COULD have been older? From the pictures I've seen of GB (I believe the ones Joe Ford took) he looks he could've been close to 100 but thats just my opinion. Hmm

[Dr. Doogie]

Annasmom- I THINK Scherzer was born in the US. I was just doing a quick search on Rootsweb.com when I saw Austria/Czechoslovakia. I did some more searching and there are families with the last name Scherzer in Pennsylvania.

I believe that there was some speculation that Brody may been of Hungarian ancestory because that is where the Kukoda's originally immigrated from. There also was the Hungarian Olympic athelete that was a person of interest.

Are you sure GB was about 65 when you met him? Is there ANY chance he COULD have been older? From the pictures I've seen of GB (I believe the ones Joe Ford took) he looks he could've been close to 100 but thats just my opinion. Hmm

Remember that when those pictures were taken, Brody was probably already suffering from his cancer, which would certainly made him look older.

[GraceBlue]

Doogie- Thanks. Now it makes sense why GB looked he could be 100 years old in that photo.

Back to Brubaker:
I did a search for Brubaker there was a boxer in the 1930s named Phil Brubaker who was born in CA. Could it be family?

[GraceBlue]

Also, I am getting a lot of hits with Brubaker, boxing, politics, and Pennsylvania

[GraceBlue]

I know Anna's middle name was Eifee, not Effie. Could 'GB'/Brubaker have gotten the spelling wrong if he was naming Anna after his sister or cousin or something because I found this:

EFFIE V BRUBAKER 05 Apr 1899 09 Aug 1994 16635 (Duncansville, Blair, PA)

Probably just a coincide but worth posting although Anna's middle name was Effie.

[smile22]

i was looking at the photos of brody and was thinking that when my great grandpa was alive he lived to be 93 he didnt look his age at all. he could have passed for someone in there late 70s early 80s. then we have BRUBAKER, at first it almost sounded like brody but i was pronunicing it wrong but kinda weird they both have names starting with BR

[GraceBlue]

SherlockJr- I see that you found a list of names of the owners of the house on Geary St.

I've been looking into several things. Are there any of the following names on the list:
-Russell
-Isaac
-Karle
-Raphael

Thanks!! :)

ETA: I called Sherlock Shadow sorry!!

[SherlockJr]

SherlockJr- I see that you found a list of names of the owners of the house on Geary St.

I've been looking into several things. Are there any of the following names on the list:
-Russell
-Isaac
-Karle
-Raphael

Thanks!! :)

ETA: I called Sherlock Shadow sorry!!

The address on Geary is a hotel. The list if very long (appox 30 pages) and I have not seen any of those names listed. This list is now shortened by eliminating gender and age, and now have a list of over 20 names to work with.
In 1953 when MK lived on Fell St, she may have been using a name Kay M. Berghald. I have searched the spelling of this name and decided it was spelled incorrectly.

[GraceBlue]

SherlockJr-

Ok, thank you! WOW 30 pages!!! I got those names off SSDI with specific death and birth dates that 'could' be brody's birthdate.

Hm, Kay. M Berghald? Brody, I wonder what did he do so horrible he left NO tracks!? Because of that and because no one has a clue what happened to Anna, I wouldnt be surprised if he (Brody) were involved in her abduction.

[SanJoaquinValleyGirl]

See if any of them add up to the Numerology thing. If I am not mistaken was it determined that Brodys name did not numerically add up?

[Shadow205]

Working on GB makes me crazy and confused as heck so I might be looking at this wrong. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I found :

Russell BRUBAKER Birth Date:15 Aug 1900 Death Date:Dec 1981 Social Security Number: 172-01-4771 State or Territory Where Number Was Issued: Pennsylvania Death Residence Localities ZIP Code:17011 Localities: Allendale, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Camp Hill, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Camphill, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Camphl, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Cmphill, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Cphill, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Cumberland Pk, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Eberleys Mill, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Highland Park, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Hill, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Lower Allen, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Ranavilla, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Rossmoyne, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Shiremanstown, Cumberland, Pennsylvania Russel BrubakerPedigree (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/IGI/pedigree_view.asp?recid=100273335777&spouseid=100273335778&lds=1&region=11&frompage=99) Male Family (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/IGI/family_group_record.asp?familyid=298393174&indi_id=100273335777&lds=1&region=11&frompage=99)http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifEvent(s):http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifBirth: 1900 Of Harrisburg, , Cumberland, Pennsylvaniahttp://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifChristening: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifDeath: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifBurial: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifMarriages: Spouse: Carolyn Rathfon (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/IGI/individual_record.asp?recid=100273335778&lds=1&region=11&frompage=99) Family (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/IGI/family_group_record.asp?familyid=298393174&indi_id=100273335778&lds=1&region=11&frompage=99) Marriage: About 1924 , Cumberland, Pennsylvania
Wifehttp://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifCarolyn Rathfon (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/IGI/individual_record.asp?recid=100273335778&lds=1&region=11&frompage=99)Pedigree (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/IGI/pedigree_view.asp?recid=100273335778&spouseid=100273335777&familyid=298393174&lds=1&region=11&frompage=99)http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gif Birth: 15 JUL 1904 Harrisburg, , Cumberland, PennsylvaniaChristening: Marriage: About 1924 , Cumberland, PennsylvaniaDeath: Burial: http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifhttp://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifFather: John H. Rathfon (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/IGI/individual_record.asp?recid=100273335779&lds=1&region=11&frompage=99)Family (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/IGI/family_group_record.asp?familyid=298393173&indi_id=100273335779&lds=1&region=11&frompage=99)Mother: Carrie Hummel (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/search/IGI/individual_record.asp?recid=100273335780&lds=1&region=11&frompage=99) http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gif Childrenhttp://www.familysearch.org/Eng/images/spacer.gifNone
White Hill, Cumberland, Pennsylvania



So this Russell Brubaker that we are looking at married Carolyn Rathfon about 1924 and they had no children. There is no date of death on Carolyn.

[InterestedNHelping]

I am confused here, why would we look up someone on the death index, if Brody died with a 'legitimate' death certificate as Brody? You might get more than one false birth certificate on a person, but you cannot die twice, to SS. Finding the dead, will not be him, but finding birth records or other things could be...why the death search? He died as Brody, regardless if he was or not.

[Dr. Doogie]

The odds are slim, but there is a possibility that Brody actually maintained two separate lives - one as Brody and one as Brubaker (or someone else). I often have suspected that Brody must have been receiving Social Security checks, probably under a different name. You are correct, InH, in the unlikelyhood of this, but we are following this, for the time being, to see if anything can be uncovered that might allow for the possibilityof a "dual identity".

[Annasmom]

The odds are slim, but there is a possibility that Brody actually maintained two separate lives - one as Brody and one as Brubaker (or someone else). I often have suspected that Brody must have been receiving Social Security checks, probably under a different name. You are correct, InH, in the unlikelyhood of this, but we are following this, for the time being, to see if anything can be uncovered that might allow for the possibilityof a "dual identity". I have assembled a chronology from Joe Ford's notes in the BFH which are taken from San Francisco city directories over a 20-year period, showing addresses for Brody and for Margaret. When you consider that all this research was done before there was an Internet, it is terribly impressive. Thank you, Joe. SherlockJr. and Doogie have this list and will let us know if it contains any promising leads. I found two items (both regarding former spouses) which might give us some answers...or maybe only more questions!

[SherlockJr]

I have assembled a chronology from Joe Ford's notes in the BFH which are taken from San Francisco city directories over a 20-year period, showing addresses for Brody and for Margaret. When you consider that all this research was done before there was an Internet, it is terribly impressive. Thank you, Joe. SherlockJr. and Doogie have this list and will let us know if it contains any promising leads. I found two items (both regarding former spouses) which might give us some answers...or maybe only more questions!

I think the biggest thing that sticks out at me from JF's notes is MK had an insurance policy (anyone surprised?). A premium notice was postmarked May 1967 and on back had Brody's name and address for Otis Hotel written on it. This ends my most recent thoughts that GB started using this name when he met up with GW. GB was using the Brody name before he met GW.

[InterestedNHelping]

The idea that he was Brody before he met GW certainly makes sense, and my thoughts have always been that if he has other alias' or his REAL NAME, if we can get anything as a lead, like you are researching currently in the BFH info, it is important that whatever names were, they are checked in the California unclaimed property, since the one account we know of is there, it is very very possible that the other names may be there as well. I have been looking at that for some time with variations of names, but have found nothing yet. So, if you (SHerlock) get more name ideas, keep checking that Unclaimed, because Brody sure seems to like to store up money!

[Dr. Doogie]

Good idea! Anybody have the time to check California's unclaimed property for "Russell Brubaker"?

[SherlockJr]

Good idea! Anybody have the time to check California's unclaimed property for "Russell Brubaker"?


Nothing there for Russell Brubaker.

[Cubby]

I have assembled a chronology from Joe Ford's notes in the BFH which are taken from San Francisco city directories over a 20-year period, showing addresses for Brody and for Margaret. When you consider that all this research was done before there was an Internet, it is terribly impressive. Thank you, Joe. SherlockJr. and Doogie have this list and will let us know if it contains any promising leads. I found two items (both regarding former spouses) which might give us some answers...or maybe only more questions!


Former spouses? :waitasec: Can you explain further?

OT- Will be leaving for Wisconsin Dells in an hour or so........... see everyone Friday or Late Thursday........

[Dr. Doogie]

Former spouses? :waitasec: Can you explain further?

We are trying to figure this one out also.

There is a listing for what appears to be a spouse of Brody that may be Margaret. There also is a listing for a deceased husband for Margaret. Neither of these bits of info fits with what we know (or, at least, what we think we know). As soon as we can make some sense of these, we will post the info.

[InterestedNHelping]

Oh Yipeee!!! more names! LOL...If you have spouses or whatever names, I can cross-reference them "three ways to Sunday" as the saying goes!
I cannot wait to see who theses spouses might be.....

[InterestedNHelping]

I have another question on Brody...In the unclaimed acct he left, it is specific that the address he lived at was the San Pablo Ave address, has this been researched at all, or is anyone familiar with it, or talked to neighbors etc, or people who knew he lived there? THis address is Oakland, and not San Fran.

[Dr. Doogie]

I have another question on Brody...In the unclaimed acct he left, it is specific that the address he lived at was the San Pablo Ave address, has this been researched at all, or is anyone familiar with it, or talked to neighbors etc, or people who knew he lived there? THis address is Oakland, and not San Fran.

The San Pablo Ave. address was the location of the bank, not his address. This is unusual to be listed this way - I suspect that he did not list an address for himself out of paranoia.

[InterestedNHelping]

Brody

Hungarian (Bródy), Slavic, and Jewish (Ashkenazic): habitational name for someone from any of the many towns and cities in central and eastern Europe named with Slavic brod ‘fort’.
Variant spelling of Scottish Brodie (http://www.ancestry.com/learn/facts/Fact.aspx?fid=10&ln=Brodie&fn=&yr=&cj=1&sid=originsindexessb&o_xid=0000703401&o_lid=0000703401&o_xt=2387812).

I think Brody could very well be of Jewish (Ashkenazic) and (Akashic record references,) and Hungarian descent, Both.

I am very very familiar with the Bay Area Hungarian families, and have very close ties to the community, and also to friends that are in Hungary. I am not Hungarian, but they are a large bay area community, and very close knit for certain. If things lead towards this direction, I will be able to access information about the communities etc, as needed. I may even be able to access info directly from Hungary, as I have friends there at this time.

[Dr. Doogie]

A couple of more clues as to the ethnicity of Brody: Kukoda is a Hungarian name, and the woman who Brody briefly attempted to draw into his little cult, Seka, was from Yugoslavia. So both women that had any level of involvement at all with Brody fit your description, which may be telling.

[SherlockJr]

I have added a picture of Brody to another website.

http://www.cousinconnect.com/p/a/0/s/BRODY/

http://www.adopteeconnect.com/d/a/141057

[mbroemsen]

Can they do skip tracing that far back? My thought was finding a neighbor who might still be around and remember anything. Of course, it would probably have to be a very young neighbor...

[Dr. Doogie]

The two Georges were so secretive (not only to others, but with each other also) that it is very doubtful that any neighbors would know anything of value. Joe Ford observed in the late 1970's that they lived in the tenemant hotel specifically because of the isolation and lack of "prying eyes" that this type of dwelling offered.

Even Waters's coworkers knew little about him - I spoke to his supervisor at the Mission Neighborhood Health Clinic and she recalled very little about him, even though he had been a major troublemaker and was fired for gross insubordination.

These two covered their tracks very well.

[NJshrink]

Any things I post are just hypotheses. In downloading census, ship manifests and military records, I believe that George Brody was Hungarian/Austrian. Interestingly, one George Brody had an attorney brother named Albert A. Brody with whom he lived briefly in NY. (thinking of the baby selling) His wife was Margaret Kukoda who may have been the nurse charged in CA with doing abortions. Her mother's name was Esther. A common Jewish nickname for Esther is "Eifee." Also of interest, although perhaps far fetched was an Aug 1911 ship manifest for an Eifee J. Waters from Cherbourg ( a common departure point for Eastern European Jews at the turn of the century). Sometimes individuals would take on the last name of a relative to get approval to arrive in the US. Also there was a George Brody in the 1930's Illinois census living with a Mary Hungo(?) as a boarder. She lived with a daughter Elizabeth and one named Anna, a brother named Peter Wanks(?) and half brother George Polacek(?). This George Brody was born about 1896. Just hunting for leads....

[InterestedNHelping]

NJShrink, Don't worry about finding erroneos info, we all follow strange leads all the time...Can you copy and paste the info on George, Albert and Margaret? It sounds like a very promising lead, especially the 1896 date...you may be onto something...As for the Waters lead, this family has a known history, and the Waters family would have nothing to do with the missing child, but the Brody connections are important. The Waters are good and respectible folks that are still in contact with the family, so we are researching the Brody, with or without Waters lead, as a direction. Great work on what you found! Can you share what it is exactly?

[Annasmom]

NJShrink, Don't worry about finding erroneos info, we all follow strange leads all the time...Can you copy and paste the info on George, Albert and Margaret? It sounds like a very promising lead, especially the 1896 date...you may be onto something...As for the Waters lead, this family has a known history, and the Waters family would have nothing to do with the missing child, but the Brody connections are important. The Waters are good and respectible folks that are still in contact with the family, so we are researching the Brody, with or without Waters lead, as a direction. Great work on what you found! Can you share what it is exactly? Someone in touch with the Forum through MySpace has come up with a George Brody born in 1889. The name was on a genealogical site listing orphanages in Pennsylvania. This could well account for the difficulty in tracing Brody's origins. If no WebSleuths members are already members of this site, I'll join and see what I can find out, since only part of the information is available to non-members.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

In light of some interesting new developements, (The BFH & contact with MK's family), I thought I would repost some info I posted in April. IF the info is correct that Brody & Kukoda could have both previously married, (To other spouces) this George Brody could still be in the running for THE GB. This guy was married to a Margaret who is NOT MK.



I was looking around on Ancestry.com and did see some census records for a George Brody that I don't recall seeing discussed here.

There is a George and Margaret Brody listed on the 1920 census living in Philadelphia PA. The problem is it says George was born in 1890, making him 91 when he died. (Though my Father in law is that old and doesn't look a day over 70..LOL)

Anyway, this same couple is then listed in the 1930 Census as living in San Francisco, CA. I'm positive it's the same people, for all of the info is the same such as ages, birth place, mother & fathers birth place ect. In 1920 This George was a plumber in a shipyard, and Margaret worked in a chocolate factory. In 1930 George was a merchant at a Hardware store, (no job listed for wife). Their address was listed as 20th Avenue SF CA.

I can not find death records for either of them. Maybe they divorced & or she changed her last name...I think I found this Margarets record before they where married & her last name might have been Murphy, though I can't find any thing prior for George with the same birth year. I doubt this Margret is Kukoda because her birth year is 1895 and according to that newspaper pic of Kudoda, she looks too young to be 50 yrs old in that picture. Also interesting to note Margaret Brody was 35 in 1930 and there where no children listed for them.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Does anyone have an approx. date Margaret K went to CA? I've been looking at a "Russell" of interest who was living in Durham, PA near the location and at the same time frame Margaret was living there. He was a farm hand, ( MK's parents where farmers). He also happened to have a cousin by the name of George who was married to a woman named Effie. (I know, different spelling than Anna's Eifee) This George fellow was b. 12-12-98 and his reported date of death was 8-15-56. Some members of this particular family line where very wealthy.

I really need MK's approx year of leaving PA to determine if these guys could actually be GB and his cousin Russell. Russell lived to be a ripe old age and married and had several kids.

My line of thinking is, maybe this cousin George, went with Russell and Margaret to CA. George & Margaret started a relationship together and Russell, feeling betrayed, went back home to PA. George, leaving a wife and children behind decided to eventually fake his death to his family. He then used his faked date of death (8-15) with his new "rebirth".

[Dr. Doogie]

This sounds as plausible as any other theory at this point - certainly worth following up on. Margaret went to SF during WWII - I believe that she started working at Letterman in 1943.

[InterestedNHelping]

Some thoughts on Brody and why he did what he did...

It is entirely possible that George Brody never had a SS#...he could have not been a naturalized citizen, or he could have been a criminal, and not want to apply, and give fingerprints, or they would catch him.

After all, he needed GW's money to support him, possibly because he did not have SS like everyone else. This supports the theory again, that he is from elsewhere, possibly and likely Hungary.

[Annasmom]

Some thoughts on Brody and why he did what he did...

It is entirely possible that George Brody never had a SS#...he could have not been a naturalized citizen, or he could have been a criminal, and not want to apply, and give fingerprints, or they would catch him.

After all, he needed GW's money to support him, possibly because he did not have SS like everyone else. This supports the theory again, that he is from elsewhere, possibly and likely Hungary. He would have had to come here as a child if that were the case, since he had no trace of a foreign accent.

[laini]

The EIFEE name

Please ignore if this has been covered. There was a family with last name Eifee I found in the 1930 Federal Census MT (that's the abrev. for Montana, right?). I just wanted to mention it since the name Eifee given to Anna was thought to be a nonsense word that added up in Brody's mind. (correct me of I am wrong). Could George Brody have been from this Eifee family? Or had connections to them? Or just a wild coincidence.

http://www.us-census.org/pub-ftp/mt/stillwater/1930/ed52-brief.txt

[InterestedNHelping]

Good work laini,

For the last 6 months i worked that angle from the census, but to this date, I cannot find any family links that they stayed here, or that they had any offspring...it is possible, I just havent found any links yet...keep us posted if you can find something closer to living.

[Annasmom]

I joined a genealogy site to get information on a George Brody, 1898, listed in papers from a Pennsylvania orphanage. It looked interesting, but this Brody turned out to be the second vice president of Lodge 125 of the Odd Fellows Orphans' Home of Central Pennsylvania (not an orphan) in 1898, which would make him too old to be "our" Brody. SherlockJr and I also checked out an "Anna Banana" who looked promising (and all kinds of fun, with her polka band, accordion playing and handmade quilts), but who was way too young to be our Anna. So you can strike these two off your list, in case they turn up in your research.

[Dr. Doogie]

Anna Anna ba-bo-bana be-bi-bo-bana Anna.

What next, the Hand Jive? :crazy: :)

[LisainWV]

Too lazy to look for this at the moment...

Doogie or Annasmom, what is the exact spelling of the name Brody added to Anna's....Eiffee?

Thanks!!

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Too lazy to look for this at the moment...

Doogie or Annasmom, what is the exact spelling of the name Brody added to Anna's....Eiffee?

Thanks!!

I'm not who you requested the info from, but it is Eifee. Also interesting to note is that one baby names books I was looking through stated Effie, Effy, & Eiffee where nicknames for Euphemia. So it's reasonable to say Annas Eifee name could also be. Someone on this sight once reported it was the nickname for Esther, but I have yet to find a reference.

According to the link below the name Euphemia means well spoken, and it's origin is Greek.
http://www.babynames.com/Names/name_display.php?n=EUPHEMIA

[Annasmom]

I'm not who you requested the info from, but it is Eifee. Also interesting to note is that one baby names books I was looking through stated Effie, Effy, & Eiffee where nicknames for Euphemia. So it's reasonable to say Annas Eifee name could also be. Someone on this sight once reported it was the nickname for Esther, but I have yet to find a reference.

According to the link below the name Euphemia means well spoken, and it's origin is Greek.
http://www.babynames.com/Names/name_display.php?n=EUPHEMIA

Thanks for answering, iW. I would be surprised if the addition of Eifee by GB had anything at all to do with the Greek name (though that connection might have made it easier for me to accept at the time.) I remember GW saying of the first suggested name change--Christiana Benedo Waters--that he didn't find it unobjectionable at all. Of course he was all for the "Eifee" and even called her that.

[LisainWV]

IW and Annasmom, thanks for the quick response.

I haven't done near the amount of work that some of you have, and WOW to the progress here, but I just keep thinking that the addition of that name to her existing one had to mean something.

Was it the key to getting a birth certificate for her and to pass on to someone else? The two of them may have been mentally ill, but someone was exceptionally smart too.

[Dr. Doogie]

Remember that the addition of "Eifee" came within a couple of weeks of Anna's birth (1967) when George waters was still married to Annasmom withlittle indication of a coming split. This would mean that a "plan" was in effect for a full five years prior to Anna's abduction which is unlikely.

[smile22]

was waters friends with gb when anna was born maybe they were planning this only a few weeks after her birth or before it

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Remember that the addition of "Eifee" came within a couple of weeks of Anna's birth (1967) when George waters was still married to Annasmom withlittle indication of a coming split. This would mean that a "plan" was in effect for a full five years prior to Anna's abduction which is unlikely.

I agree that an abduction plan was most likely nonexistent at the time of her birth for Waters...BUT, I think it possible for it to be in the beginning phases for Brody. At the time of MKs declining health, Brody knew he had to find a new meal ticket. Waters fit the bill. He was handsome and successful, and most importantly on the verge of mental collapse. Predators such as Brody know how to pick a target, it's an art.

ETA: Doogie made a really good point a while back, that I think could be a possibility of how this all came down. (sorry, can't find the thread right now) He suggested that possibility Brody convinced Waters into this "plan" as a way to show his loyalty to him. A test of faith. The way Doogie described it, it reminded me of the test God gave Abraham and his first born son Isaac. (Genesis 22:1-24) God asked Abraham to sacrifice his beloved son to prove his faith. Abraham followed Gods orders and it was only within seconds of slaying his own son that the Angels called down on him and told him to stop. He passed the test. I understand that Brody was not a religious man, but I have met a lot of Atheist in my day who know the Bible better that the majority of Christians. The big question would be just how far did this test go, and what did they do with Anna after the test was over.

[Gina_M]

I think it's possible that Brody was already formulating his "plan" when Anna was born. As you said, MK died, and he needed a new "meal ticket". If he'd been doing this kind of thing for years, he would have been good at it.

[InterestedNHelping]

Just for Fun...
I have a completely 'off-the wall" match for Brody, though likely not, I thought I might throw this out there, and see if there is any possible way that this guy would be connected...your opinions of this crazy idea are welcome! Here goes...ANdrew Carnegie Whitfield...
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/848dmny.html

There is a write up in Wikipedia, that have some good links to news sources...

Seems partially ridiculous, and the photos are hard to tell, not many out there...but passports and insurance policies, and new identities...it just sounds so very familiar!

[Dr. Doogie]

Nice hat. I think Andy may be hiding as that guy in the game of Monopoly.

[InterestedNHelping]

ROFLOL....thanks for posting the pics...I'll bet he has a whole closet full of those hats! However, if he was Brody (nose looks different but who the heck knows) He would wear a fedora anyways, lol...By the way, his mother's name was "Margaret" I believe, (don't quote me, I worked on too many cases today)

[InterestedNHelping]

Brody had "wealthy relatives back east"
Gee whiz, so did Whitfield $$$$$$$$$$

Whitfield was 'moving to Pennsylvania, had been married less than a year, and wanted out...
Wanted his insurance policies dropped in that name....no identity with him etc

Now the only question I have is...did Brody every say he could fly?

After all, his identity was so well hidden, there was a reason...and I am still looking at it as if he had a checkered past...but he didnt use a SS#, and his documents were destroyed....I wonder if someone from the Haley Carnegie Whitfield family could identify that pic of Brody when he was younger...after all, Whitfield had a brother, the parents in Virginia, and I speculate the brother is living...

Crazy and far fetched....but interesting

[Annasmom]

Nice hat. I think Andy may be hiding as that guy in the game of Monopoly. Doogie, you're such a scream. Where do you find these things? But doesn't this picture (the guy, not the toon) look familiar? Didn't Sherlock send it around some time in the past?

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Just for Fun...
I have a completely 'off-the wall" match for Brody, though likely not, I thought I might throw this out there, and see if there is any possible way that this guy would be connected...your opinions of this crazy idea are welcome! Here goes...ANdrew Carnegie Whitfield...
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/848dmny.html
!

His looks are close enough, but I just couldn't see Brody splitting and not trying to get his hands on some of Uncle Andy's fortune.

[Annasmom]

Just for Fun...
I have a completely 'off-the wall" match for Brody, though likely not, I thought I might throw this out there, and see if there is any possible way that this guy would be connected...your opinions of this crazy idea are welcome! Here goes...ANdrew Carnegie Whitfield...
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/848dmny.html
Seems partially ridiculous, and the photos are hard to tell, not many out there...but passports and insurance policies, and new identities...it just sounds so very familiar! I tried and tried to remember where I had seen this picture before. Then SherlockJr said Robin had posted it some time back, and that she (Sherlock) had looked at it very early on. I think "off-the-wall" is the only way we're going to find GB, but in this case...I don't think GB came from a wealthy family. More like inner-city big-town street-smart kind of personality.

[rmf]

Has anyone considered checking the census and other records for a George Brodie? It is possible he slightly changed the spelling of his name.

Also to concur with the other posters, social security numbers were not required at birth until about 20 years ago. I did not get mine until I was 16 and wanted to get a job.

[Annasmom]

Has anyone considered checking the census and other records for a George Brodie? It is possible he slightly changed the spelling of his name.

Also to concur with the other posters, social security numbers were not required at birth until about 20 years ago. I did not get mine until I was 16 and wanted to get a job. Thanks, rmf, for the info. I have made a very superficial search of Brodies (Scottish, I think, with this spelling), but maybe some of our more skilled searchangels will have a go at it.

[Annasmom]

Has anyone considered checking the census and other records for a George Brodie? It is possible he slightly changed the spelling of his name.

Also to concur with the other posters, social security numbers were not required at birth until about 20 years ago. I did not get mine until I was 16 and wanted to get a job. I did find a George W. Brodie from Brooklyn, N. Y., in a 1921 listing from a Masonic publication. Found it on Family Tree Connection, but no picture and no further information were available.

[SherlockJr]

Brody had "wealthy relatives back east"
Gee whiz, so did Whitfield $$$$$$$$$$

Whitfield was 'moving to Pennsylvania, had been married less than a year, and wanted out...
Wanted his insurance policies dropped in that name....no identity with him etc

Now the only question I have is...did Brody every say he could fly?

After all, his identity was so well hidden, there was a reason...and I am still looking at it as if he had a checkered past...but he didnt use a SS#, and his documents were destroyed....I wonder if someone from the Haley Carnegie Whitfield family could identify that pic of Brody when he was younger...after all, Whitfield had a brother, the parents in Virginia, and I speculate the brother is living...

Crazy and far fetched....but interesting


I agree there are similiarites with Whitfield. Supposedly he was seen later in Wisconsin and then again in Nevada. I can't see him leaving an insuance policy sit around for someone else to cash in on. Has anyone else noticed that he and Anna had the same initials?

[Dr. Doogie]

Has anyone else noticed that he and Anna had the same initials?

Yes, another interesting coincidence.

[laini]

The EIFEE name....There was a family with last name Eifee I found in the 1930 Federal Census MT (that's the abrev. for Montana, right?). I just wanted to mention it since the name Eifee given to Anna was thought to be a nonsense word that added up in Brody's mind. (correct me of I am wrong). Could George Brody have been from this Eifee family? Or had connections to them? Or just a wild coincidence.

http://www.us-census.org/pub-ftp/mt/stillwater/1930/ed52-brief.txt


Annasmom and Dr. Doogie (and anyone else who has an opinion on this),
do you think this could have anythign to do with where Brody came from? Or just quite a coincidence? My mind goes to wild senarios because the family name Eifee appears to have disappeared forever after that. Is George one of the teenage boys listed in the Eifee family in that census? Did something criminal happen to the family that George would have known about:waitasec: ? What does your gut say? Is this just a mere coincidence? It seems weird he chose that name, and it isn't found anywhere except there.

[natasha-cupcake]

Annasmom and Dr. Doogie (and anyone else who has an opinion on this),
do you think this could have anythign to do with where Brody came from? Or just quite a coincidence? My mind goes to wild senarios because the family name Eifee appears to have disappeared forever after that. Is George one of the teenage boys listed in the Eifee family in that census? Did something criminal happen to the family that George would have known about:waitasec: ? What does your gut say? Is this just a mere coincidence? It seems weird he chose that name, and it isn't found anywhere except there.

My gut tells me that Brody was a master at hiding his identity and at covering his tracks. I doubt that he would use any name based on his real identity, whether to craft an alias for himself or to align his "numerical significance" with Anna. My gut tells me that he would not chance disclosure of his true identity, if Eifee was, in fact, his real last name.

However, that being said, it's interesting that both of the sons listed on the census are of an age somewhat consistent with how old Brody appeared to be. Benjamin Eifee would have been born in 1902 and Herman Eifee in 1917. Brody could also have been an acquaintance of the Eifee family, I suppose.

I keep coming back to the fact that Margaret Kukoda called Brody by the name of Bobby. If she knew him from a very young age, that may have been his real first name or close to it. I hope that speaking to Margaret's remaining family members is still a viable option for us. I truly think that they are the last remaining hope to discovering any information about George Brody's true identity.

[laini]

My gut tells me that Brody was a master at hiding his identity and at covering his tracks. I doubt that he would use any name based on his real identity, whether to craft an alias for himself or to align his "numerical significance" with Anna. My gut tells me that he would not chance disclosure of his true identity, if Eifee was, in fact, his real last name..

Good points! Thanks for replying :)

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Did anyone besides GW see Brody's dead body? Does anyone know without a shadow of a doubt he actually died? Could he have faked his death possibly for a 2nd time? (I think he did several times actually) Some crazy stuff has surfaced while checking out my Russell and his cousin George from PA. Seems they had an uncle who faked his death when they would have been in their teens, he was later found and living like a King with a new family...weird, but probably just another strange coincident. My contact guy is trying to find out more on George & Russell. I sent him a couple pictures of Brody and he's going to dig through his piles of genealogy research to try and find pictures of them. I'll keep you updated.

[Annasmom]

Did anyone besides GW see Brody's dead body? Does anyone know without a shadow of a doubt he actually died? Could he have faked his death possibly for a 2nd time? (I think he did several times actually) Some crazy stuff has surfaced while checking out my Russell and his cousin George from PA. Seems they had an uncle who faked his death when they would have been in their teens, he was later found and living like a King with a new family...weird, but probably just another strange coincident. My contact guy is trying to find out more on George & Russell. I sent him a couple pictures of Brody and he's going to dig through his piles of genealogy research to try and find pictures of them. I'll keep you updated.
This is a good question. As far as I know, nobody but GW and the coroner (who didn't know what Brody looked like) actually saw his dead body. However, from the evidence that GW frantically tried all sorts of treatments for Brody's throat cancer, from the phone records just before and just after Brody's supposed death, and from the interviews with the hotel desk clerk (who assumed the illness and death were real and who offered no word that any other person went to GB and GW's rooms) it seems probable that he really did die and that GW filled out the death certificate. Also, remember that all those millions in insurance were accident policies which did not pay out, and that we found unclaimed money in what we're pretty sure was Brody's bank account.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

This is a good question. As far as I know, nobody but GW and the coroner (who didn't know what Brody looked like) actually saw his dead body. However, from the evidence that GW frantically tried all sorts of treatments for Brody's throat cancer...

... Also, remember that all those millions in insurance were accident policies which did not pay out, and that we found unclaimed money in what we're pretty sure was Brody's bank account.

The safe deposit box is the clue here...I can't see him leaving it either, unless he thought he might be able to claim it later and didn't get the chance.

Also this leads me to another question. Did Brody smoke?

[Annasmom]

The safe deposit box is the clue here...I can't see him leaving it either, unless he thought he might be able to claim it later and didn't get the chance.

Also this leads me to another question. Did Brody smoke? No, he didn't, but he did like expensive brandy.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

No, he didn't, but he did like expensive brandy.

Just when I thought the guy was a total nut case...;)

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Originally Posted by laini http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1592586#post1592586)
The EIFEE name....There was a family with last name Eifee I found in the 1930 Federal Census MT (that's the abrev. for Montana, right?). I just wanted to mention it since the name Eifee given to Anna was thought to be a nonsense word that added up in Brody's mind. (correct me of I am wrong). Could George Brody have been from this Eifee family? Or had connections to them? Or just a wild coincidence.

http://www.us-census.org/pub-ftp/mt/...ed52-brief.txt (http://www.us-census.org/pub-ftp/mt/stillwater/1930/ed52-brief.txt)


Good work laini,

For the last 6 months i worked that angle from the census, but to this date, I cannot find any family links that they stayed here, or that they had any offspring...it is possible, I just havent found any links yet...keep us posted if you can find something closer to living.

Oh I feel so bad you researched this for so long INH. The actual spelling of this name was not Eifee, but Erfle. I just renewed my subscription to Ancestry.com and thought I'd check this out. Unfortunately the handwriting of the 1930 census taker official was pretty poor. Ancestry had it spelled wrong as well, (Eifer). I ran a quick check of the first names & birth years listed and found them in the 1910 records. (They lived in North Dakota in 1910) That Handwriting was much eaiser to read. Here is a link to a MT cemetery with records for Louise, (Mom), John, (Dad), John Jr, Herman, and Bennie, (Benjamin) Erfle. http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/mt/stillwater/cemetery/rapelje.txt

I saved the original 1910 & 1930 census record to my computer. (Copy of microfilm) If anyone is interested in seeing them PM me & I'll e-mail them. I probably can't find them in the 1920 records because it appears they where moving from ND to MT during this time. They had a couple daughters before John Jr. was born who where in Stillwater co, MT in 1920 living as servants to other families.

[laini]

Oh I feel so bad you researched this for so long INH. The actual spelling of this name was not Eifee, but Erfle. I just renewed my subscription to Ancestry.com and thought I'd check this out. Unfortunately the handwriting of the 1930 census taker official was pretty poor. Ancestry had it spelled wrong as well, (Eifer). I ran a quick check of the first names & birth years listed and found them in the 1910 records. (They lived in North Dakota in 1910) That Handwriting was much eaiser to read. Here is a link to a MT cemetery with records for the mom, dad, John Jr, and Herman, spelled the correct way.
http://ftp.rootsweb.com/pub/usgenweb/mt/stillwater/cemetery/rapelje.txt

I saved the original 1910 & 1930 census record to my computer. If anyone is interested in seeing them PM me & I'll e-mail them. I probably can't find them in the 1920 records because it appears they where moving from ND to MT during this time. They had a couple daughters before John Jr. was born who where in Stillwater co, MT in 1920 living as servants to other families.


Thanks for checking that and letting us know. :)

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Do you think it possible for Brody to claim he was a "Leo", because his real name was Leo? Is there a sample of his signature?

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I may be way off base, but I have to ask this question and I hope that no one is offended. Is it possible that GW, to end Brody's suffering, helped him pass with a doctor assisted suicide?

I am in no way suggesting that Dr. Waters is a murder but after some very interesting conversation with a genealogical researcher, he informed me that the father and brother of someone I've been looking at as a possible Brody, committed suicide together to end their suffering from a chronic illness. The fathers name was Robert F. Brady, the bother was a George Robert Brady, b. 12-24-09 (Listed as Brody on the 1910 census). Leo is the surviving brother. (the possible Brody).
Here is a portion of response I received this afternoon. (on a genealogy message board)


I can only answer one of your several questions. According to their joint obit/funeral notice "Father and son committed suicide together as a means to end their suffering from an illness on March 25, 1936." That leaves us to speculate what that "illness" was. Send me an email with your email address and I will provide a transcription and one for Katherine Anna (Peters) Brady. The Bradys are shirt tail cousins in my wife's family but I have no photographs. At this point I don't have a clue when Leo Brady left...


BTW, the Russell, George cousin combo from PA are not a match. They where both very tall men with dark brown hair and brown eyes.

[Dr. Doogie]

Hmm...very interesting!

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Lee, the research genealogy guy found the linked picture of Robert & Katerine Brady in a pictorial book just a while ago. They would be the parents of the possible GB match. The mother looks a lot like the younger pic of GB IMO. Anyway I think with this link you can browse the entire album, which I started for Anna a while back to find stuff better. Feel free to check out any or all of the pictures. If there are any pictures someone would prefer I remove, please let me know and I'll do so ASAP.

http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/?action=view&current=BradyStories19782.jpg

[Annasmom]

Lee, the research genealogy guy found the linked picture of Robert & Katerine Brady in a pictorial book just a while ago. They would be the parents of the possible GB match. The mother looks a lot like the younger pic of GB IMO. Anyway I think with this link you can browse the entire album, which I started for Anna a while back to find stuff better. Feel free to check out any or all of the pictures. If there are any pictures someone would prefer I remove, please let me know and I'll do so ASAP.

http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w204/iNTERESTEDWOMAN/?action=view&current=BradyStories19782.jpg The album is really good. Somehow I've missed the significance of the registration card for Michael George Jacob Brody, which interested me a lot in view of the physical resemblances to GB (5'5, blue eyes, etc.). There is a signature on one of the studio pictures of Brody. I have other examples of his handwriting, but not a signature including the last name.

[smile22]

do we still have contact with the kukoda family member? was a photo of brody sent to them? someone in this world has to know who brody was. annasmom did brody have an accent that you wouldnt find in california like he came from someplace other than california. maybe from another country?

[Dr. Doogie]

do we still have contact with the kukoda family member? was a photo of brody sent to them?

I have not heard from the Kukoda's since our initial series of contacts. They did show the picture of Brody to Margaret's sister and she did not recognize him (either as "Russell" - the boyfriend of Margaret - or as anyone else.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

The album is really good. Somehow I've missed the significance of the registration card for Michael George Jacob Brody, which interested me a lot in view of the physical resemblances to GB (5'5, blue eyes, etc.). There is a signature on one of the studio pictures of Brody. I have other examples of his handwriting, but not a signature including the last name.


I found that searching for any Brody's with an August 15th birthday. I think I dismissed him, because no one answered my question about any noticeable scars on GB's forehead, (So I assumed he had none) and the fact it said he was married and was much older than GB claimed to be.

That one younger picture of GB has a printing sample, but IIRC the printing on the registration card was done by the official taking the information...it was the same on several I looked at in that area of PA

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

do we still have contact with the kukoda family member? was a photo of brody sent to them? someone in this world has to know who brody was. annasmom did brody have an accent that you wouldnt find in california like he came from someplace other than california. maybe from another country?


I have sent out so many pictures of Brody over the last week it's almost on the edge of obsession. (okay...over the edge) Finally got one posted on deadfred's. I am in the process of sending the 2 portraits of GB to every Brody/Brady contact I can find on one world tree, Rootsweb etc. If he was actually a Brody/Brady then someone will have to recognize him! :cool:

[Dr. Doogie]

I found that searching for any Brody's with an August 15th birthday. I think I dismissed him, because no one answered my question about any noticeable scars on GB's forehead, (So I assumed he had none) and the fact it said he was married and was much older than GB claimed to be.

Brody was much older than he claimed to be. He claimed a birth year of 1925 which would have made him around fifty years old at the time of the candid pictures of him that Joe Ford took. As you have probably seen from those pictures, there is no way that he could be only fifty. He also claimed in some of his medical paperwork toward the end of his life to have been born in 1935. Not a chance!

[Dr. Doogie]

...I am in the process of sending the 2 portraits of GB to every Brody/Brady contact I can find on one world tree, Rootsweb etc. If he was actually a Brody/Brady then someone will have to recognize him! :cool:

Thanks for the great effort, IW!

[Annasmom]

I found that searching for any Brody's with an August 15th birthday. I think I dismissed him, because no one answered my question about any noticeable scars on GB's forehead, (So I assumed he had none) and the fact it said he was married and was much older than GB claimed to be.
That one younger picture of GB has a printing sample, but IIRC the printing on the registration card was done by the official taking the information...it was the same on several I looked at in that area of PA Sorry not to answer sooner, iW. I've been transferring stuff from my antique computer and have gotten behind. I don't recall any scar, and none is visible in the photographs. I hope you get an answer from all those posts!

[smile22]

i totaly forgotten i had posted at http://genforum.genealogy.com on george brody no one responded with the link to the picture. i also saw a listing for broady surname

[SherlockJr]

I found that searching for any Brody's with an August 15th birthday. I think I dismissed him, because no one answered my question about any noticeable scars on GB's forehead, (So I assumed he had none) and the fact it said he was married and was much older than GB claimed to be.

That one younger picture of GB has a printing sample, but IIRC the printing on the registration card was done by the official taking the information...it was the same on several I looked at in that area of PA

Some reports shows this Michael Brody was born 8-15-1894

Brody, Michael WAS BORN ON 08/15/1894

IN 1971, RESIDED AT:

Tunkhannock, Wyoming County, PA, USA, 18657
AND PREVIOUSLY RESIDED IN the state of PA, USA

AND SOMETIME BETWEEN 1955 AND 1957,
PROBABLY RESIDED in PA

DIED ON 01/00/1971

SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER 205-30-1444
AND WAS ACQUIRED in PA

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Some reports shows this Michael Brody was born 8-15-1894

Brody, Michael WAS BORN ON 08/15/1894

IN 1971, RESIDED AT:

Tunkhannock, Wyoming County, PA, USA, 18657
AND PREVIOUSLY RESIDED IN the state of PA, USA

AND SOMETIME BETWEEN 1955 AND 1957,
PROBABLY RESIDED in PA

DIED ON 01/00/1971

SOCIAL SECURITY NUMBER 205-30-1444
AND WAS ACQUIRED in PA

Thanks SherlockJr, Probably not our guy, I'll delete him from the photobucket. Though, I just have this feeling that Brody faked his death the first time, and I think he did it after he received his fair share of SS benefits. I think it was Dr Doogie who suggested that Brody might have had dual identities at one point, and I am beginning to be a believer of that particular theory, (at least until he met up with MK). I can't see him giving up on "free money".

But then again, maybe he wasn't as smart as we think he was. Maybe George Brody was just a plain rich kid pain in the butt, and his Daddy gave him everything he wanted until he ticked him off one day for doing something stupid. (Paris Hilton comes to mind for some reason...LOL) George, never having a job and no money of his own, became resourceful and used his charm to survive when Daddy cut the purse strings. :waitasec:

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

... after some very interesting conversation with a genealogical researcher, he informed me that the father and brother of someone I've been looking at as a possible Brody, committed suicide together to end their suffering from a chronic illness. The fathers name was Robert F. Brady, the bother was a George Robert Brady, b. 12-24-09 (Listed as Brody on the 1910 census). Leo is the surviving brother. (the possible Brody)....

The above mentioned man is NOT Brody. I found a niece (daughter of one of Leo's sisters) on classmates. She was not amused with my very delicate, politely asked questions. She did NOT like me poking my nose in her family business...AT ALL. She about came unglued when I mentioned a relative of hers, (with the same last Italian name as hers), who was born in 1967 and named Anna. :eek: This Anna had a fake address on Zabasearch. It was actually a dance studio. Still all pretty strange.

I have a feeling there are a few ties to this family I just a soon stay far away from. I will not be contacting them again.

[Dr. Doogie]

The last name wasn't Gambino, was it? LOL!

[SherlockJr]

Hoping you are still a member here Joe, haven't seen you pop in for awhile. Going back reading some earlier posts, I have a couple questions:

Joe Ford (http://websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=7603) http://websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 67


Quote:
Originally Posted by SadieJane
Joe, thank you so much for posting. Your family's dedication to finding Anna is inspirational. I know the 33rd anniversary of her disappearance passed recently, and I feel a lot of hope reading Doogie's posts that this case will be solved some day soon.

Will you share any theories you have about what could have happened to Anna? Do you give credence to Anna's brother's report of the couple in the car? I think the key lies in Brody's background... Did you ever met him? What was your impression?

As regards meeting Mr. Brody: I knew of him from Annasmom but had never met him until after Anna's disappearance. More on this at a later posting.

In regards to Anna's brother's report of a car stopping and attempting to get Anna inside: Remarkably, this is the first that I have heard of this. I, also, am awaiting details from her brother. I agree that this could be the key to unraveling this mystery. The revelation of this event owes itself to the open dialogue engendered here.

As for theories, like all of you I have had to keep an open mind and consider all posssibilities, however painful or grotesque. Three scenarios lend themselves to this case: a. family abduction, b. non-family abduction, c. other. Amazingly, with all the investigation into each of these catagories and countless hours of speculation I must agree with Annasmom- they (the theories) are all as likely as they are unlikely. Not a shred nor a scrap nor a sign points in a specific direction.

With your help maybe we can change that here.
__________________
joepoke



Have you met George Brody face to face and spoken with him?

Also, after reading your blog again, how many nights or weeks would you say you spent in the hotel listening and watching the two George's?

[Dr. Doogie]

Hoping you are still a member here Joe, haven't seen you pop in for awhile.

I saw Joe viewing the forum last Friday, so he is still involved. I think that he checks in about once a week, so hopefully we will hear from him soon.

[GraceBlue]

I was playing around with SSDI. I put down a birthday of Aug 15, 1923 (the same date that was found in GW's posessions as GB's birthdate. We all know there is no way that GB was born in 1923.) I put down the birthplace as Massachusetts. I left the name field blank as well as everything else.

One interesting name popped up:

WARREN DALZELL
15 Aug 1923 Dec 1981 last residence: 02167 (Chestnut Hill, Middlesex, MA)

It's probably not him because his last residence was listed as Massachusetts but the death date really caught my attention.

[Joe Ford]

I saw Joe viewing the forum last Friday, so he is still involved. I think that he checks in about once a week, so hopefully we will hear from him soon.
Just want to assure you all that I am very much still here and that I read each and every post on the forum. Since I now reside on the East Coast, and am an early riser, most of you will miss me here as I tread back and forth through your postings...pondering probing questions and wondering if there is anything significant that I could add.

I am continually amazed and eternally grateful for all of your hard work and countless hours spent on behalf of Anna and her family. If any of you have a question for me, please do not hesitate to post it here or PM me at anytime.

[Joe Ford]

Hoping you are still a member here Joe, haven't seen you pop in for awhile. Going back reading some earlier posts, I have a couple questions:



Have you met George Brody face to face and spoken with him?

Also, after reading your blog again, how many nights or weeks would you say you spent in the hotel listening and watching the two George's?

SherlockJr, first let me congratulate you for your continued dedication in the search for Anna. You have persevered with boundless energy and clarity of mind where others, myself included, have faltered. Thank you.

As to your questions:
No, I had never spoken with nor been introduced to George Brody although I had been in his presence (unbeknownst to him) on many occasions. When I first met Annasmom the two Georges had cutoff all contact with her. This was the case until their deaths.

It is difficult to say how much time I spent watching and listening-in on the two Georges. Suffice it to say, countless hours of monotonous hours spent waiting for a significant comment by either of them became mind numbing. Nevertheless, it did offer an unique perspective into their daily routine and their relationship.

I concluded that George Brody was an ageing megalomaniac and that George Waters was his tragic disciple.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Joe, In light of the mention of Damron in Waters notebook, looking back in your surveillance of the two, do you think it had any significance in their relationship?

[Joe Ford]

Joe, In light of the mention of Damron in Waters notebook, looking back in your surveillance of the two, do you think it had any significance in their relationship?

Only, perhaps, as a red herring. There was no indication, whatsoever, that their relationship was anything other than heterosexual.

[SherlockJr]

Just want to assure you all that I am very much still here and that I read each and every post on the forum. Since I now reside on the East Coast, and am an early riser, most of you will miss me here as I tread back and forth through your postings...pondering probing questions and wondering if there is anything significant that I could add.

I am continually amazed and eternally grateful for all of your hard work and countless hours spent on behalf of Anna and her family. If any of you have a question for me, please do not hesitate to post it here or PM me at anytime.


Glad to see you're still with us Joe and thank you for your answers and insight. Since my shift change at work, I have changed from a nocturnal animal to a rooster who's up before the crack of dawn.

[GraceBlue]

Didnt we talk about Brody possibly being a traveling salesman?

Annasmom Did Brody enjoy smoking cigars or ever talk about Cigars?

Al Remp- A Cigar Man’s History - part 1
Who is Al Remp? We asked Al to document his history so you, the blog reader, could understand his importance in cigar history...

It all began with Roitan Cigars- 1960 in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and West Virginia, - placing Roitan in any and all retail outlets- following the direction of George Brody- probably the best salesman I have ever met.....

more here...
http://cigarblog101.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_archive.html

[Dr. Doogie]

GraceBlue:

This might be our Brody, but there is also a different George Brody who lived in PA and who is about the same age.

[Annasmom]

Didnt we talk about Brody possibly being a traveling salesman?

Annasmom Did Brody enjoy smoking cigars or ever talk about Cigars?

Al Remp- A Cigar Man’s History - part 1
Who is Al Remp? We asked Al to document his history so you, the blog reader, could understand his importance in cigar history...

It all began with Roitan Cigars- 1960 in Pennsylvania, Ohio, and West Virginia, - placing Roitan in any and all retail outlets- following the direction of George Brody- probably the best salesman I have ever met.....

more here...
http://cigarblog101.blogspot.com/2006_09_01_archive.html I never saw him smoke and never heard him talk about cigars, so I doubt this is the same Brody---but you never know.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

We are trying to figure this one out also.

There is a listing for what appears to be a spouse of Brody that may be Margaret. There also is a listing for a deceased husband for Margaret. Neither of these bits of info fits with what we know (or, at least, what we think we know). As soon as we can make some sense of these, we will post the info.

Did you ever come up with a definite conclusion in regards to a possible former wife of Brody? This would be very helpful. Does the name "June" ring a bell?

[Annasmom]

Did you ever come up with a definite conclusion in regards to a possible former wife of Brody? This would be very helpful. Does the name "June" ring a bell? I have never seen any indication that Brody was ever married. The name "June" doesn't suggest anything to me, but those who have looked more closely at the possibles on the genealogy sites might know something.

[Joe Ford]

Were the records of investigation by the S.M.Sheriff's Dept. ever obtained? And in particular, the detectives notes? I know they questioned G.W. but did they also question G.B.? I should think that, under the circumstances they would have asked for I.D. Did they report the details of their surveilance? Anything you can share here?

[Annasmom]

Were the records of investigation by the S.M.Sheriff's Dept. ever obtained? And in particular, the detectives notes? I know they questioned G.W. but did they also question G.B.? I should think that, under the circumstances they would have asked for I.D. Did they report the details of their surveilance? Anything you can share here?
Doogie may be able to remember why, but the only official records we were able to get (and with great difficulty) were the initial reports. As far as we can tell, Brody was never questioned. Incidentally, one of the Waters handwriting documents submitted to the expert spelled the name Brodie.

[Joe Ford]

Doogie may be able to remember why, but the only official records we were able to get (and with great difficulty) were the initial reports. As far as we can tell, Brody was never questioned. Incidentally, one of the Waters handwriting documents submitted to the expert spelled the name Brodie.

Does this mean that GW spelled it "Brodie"? What type of document was it? On all the insurance docs isn't the name spelled "Brody"? The insurance docs would be of most concern to GB, I would think. He would need some sort of ID in that name in order to cash the hoped-for check.

[Annasmom]

Does this mean that GW spelled it "Brodie"? What type of document was it? On all the insurance docs isn't the name spelled "Brody"? The insurance docs would be of most concern to GB, I would think. He would need some sort of ID in that name in order to cash the hoped-for check. This was on a 1966 or 1967 letter, so maybe GW didn't know how to spell the name yet (it is spelled Brody in other places.) It was a letter supposedly from me, with my signature forged. I sent it to the handwriting expert for comparison with later examples of George's writing.

[Dr. Doogie]

...The insurance docs would be of most concern to GB, I would think. He would need some sort of ID in that name in order to cash the hoped-for check.

Waters attached a photograph of Brody to the insurance applications with the direction to only pay the man who was depicted in the picture. This seems an attempt to circumvent any additional ID for Brody.

[Joe Ford]

Waters attached a photograph of Brody to the insurance applications with the direction to only pay the man who was depicted in the picture. This seems an attempt to circumvent any additional ID for Brody.
Thank you both for the clarification. I should have known Brody's paranoia knew no bounds. It does reaffirm my observation that Brody would go to almost any length to avoid the scrutiny of a spotlight on him. This behavior was repeated continuously as he manipulated GW to do his bidding.It does cast some doubt, in my mind, on his willingness to be involved in a sure-to-be-publicsized kidnapping.

[Dr. Doogie]

I wanted to get this on the proper thread:

I have made contact with a gentleman who is looking for a "George Brody from California" whom he served with during the Korean War. IF Brody were to be the age that he said he was, that would have made him 25 years old at the start of the war (which fits). I am sending this man pictures of Brody to confirm that it is the same man. I am not optimistic that the two Brody's are the same guy, but will let you know the outcome.

I have heard back from this man and his Brody is not our Brody.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I've been still working on a guy who I think is a good Brody candidate...but he does have 1991 death records (SS and OR state).

His name is Robert George Woolf. (The Woolf name became interesting after learning Evelyn Wanek called GW Jack Wolf(e)) b. August 15, 1921 San Fransisco CO, CA. Having death records AFTER Brody died makes it a very long shot, but I must say his life that I have found so far has been quit interesting. My biggest problem is finding anyone who knew of them. I have written several letters to different Woolf Family genealogist, and no one knows of this line. He was married several times, and there doesn't appear to be any off spring. I am having a very hard time finding his parents. His mothers maiden name was Burgess. If anyone wants to take a crack at it, please be my guest. I'll keep updating when/if there is anything to update. :)

Here is a little more info to anyone interested...so you don't waste time duplicating... As far as the SS death records, well, I have resently learned that all it takes to report a death to the SS office is for the widow of the deceased to call with their SS number. She (his wife)could have forged his SS checks until she was placed in assisted living where it would be noticable or something...? (I'm grasping at straws here) Brody never received SS benefits, so he is not listed in the SS death index...but he could have received them under a different name.

Woolf's last known wife was Hilda Bilger Adkinson b. 9-16-08 d.11-21-95 They where married 9-30-73, she was 17 years older than him. They (she?)moved to the Portland area after 1973. He is listed in the 1973 San Mateo Co directory. There are 3 addresses in the Portland area for them. In doing a Zillow search of the addresses I found it odd that they lived in such large houses, (3 & 4 bd 3000sq ft) for 2 people with no kids...Last resident (after his date of death) was an assisted living apartment. Oh how interesting to learn about all these possible George Brody's. From the Mafia to a dirt farmer, I've seen it all...LOL

[Dr. Doogie]

...Oh how interesting to learn about all these possible George Brody's. From the Mafia to a dirt farmer, I've seen it all...LOL

Don't forget transgendered person to professional boxer . :waitasec:

[Mischa]

Hi my name is Mischa, I ‘m from Germany (so pardon my English) but after reading through the threads I would like to share a few thoughts about George Brodie with you:

I believe you must not take anything serious what he told George Waters or anybody else about his previous life.
After reading (nearly) all the threads (and Michaele’s book) I got the impression that Brodie was someone who made up his whole life.

Probably he dreamt of being a boxer or a show-star, but I doubt that he ever made an attempt to make his dreams come true. Not necessarily because of a lack of talent, but because he was unable to deal with the setbacks real life would have offered him.

I think George Brodie was in his way mentally disturbed – but NOT mentally ill like George Waters. He probably saw himself surrounded by a world of enemies who would not acclaim brilliance on purpose (and out of jealousy) and whom he had to fool to get what he – in his opinion – deserved.


One thing is for sure:

George Brodie would have enjoyed reading this thread and he would have been thrilled by the mere fact that over25 years after his death people from all over the world discuss and research about him and his life.
And he would not have bothered at all that these people are interested in his person because the consider him a suspect in a hideous crime.

[Dr. Doogie]

Welcome, Mischa!

I believe you must not take anything serious what he told George Waters or anybody else about his previous life.
After reading (nearly) all the threads (and Michaele’s book) I got the impression that Brodie was someone who made up his whole life.

Probably he dreamt of being a boxer or a show-star, but I doubt that he ever made an attempt to make his dreams come true. Not necessarily because of a lack of talent, but because he was unable to deal with the setbacks real life would have offered him.

I think George Brodie was in his way mentally disturbed – but NOT mentally ill like George Waters. He probably saw himself surrounded by a world of enemies who would not acclaim brilliance on purpose (and out of jealousy) and whom he had to fool to get what he – in his opinion – deserved.

Your analysis may very well be correct. Since the history (either truth or fantasy) is all we have, we need to explore what he claimed first. Even if it is mostly delusions on his part, there may be a kernel of truth that we can build upon.


One thing is for sure:

George Brodie would have enjoyed reading this thread and he would have been thrilled by the mere fact that over 25 years after his death people from all over the world discuss and research about him and his life.
And he would not have bothered at all that these people are interested in his person because the consider him a suspect in a hideous crime.

I have thought of this possibilty. The Muslims do something to show reverence to the names of Allah and Mohammed - they always add something like "Blessed be his name" (or something similar, even if it is just the initials of the phrase - "BBHN"). We could do something similar for Brody to insure that any mention of him receives the proper respect. I nominate that we always refer to him as "George (Mr. Poopy Pants) Brody". :D

[Mischa]

Welcome, Mischa!

I have thought of this possibilty. The Muslims do something to show reverence to the names of Allah and Mohammed - the always add something like "Blessed be his name" (or something similar, even if it is just the initials of the phrase - "BBHN"). We could do something similar for Brody to insure that any mention of him receives the proper respect. I nominate that we always refer to him as "George (Mr. Poopy Pants) Brody". :D

Well, perhaps they have internet-access in hell....

[natasha-cupcake]

Hi my name is Mischa, I ‘m from Germany (so pardon my English) but after reading through the threads I would like to share a few thoughts about George Brodie with you:

I believe you must not take anything serious what he told George Waters or anybody else about his previous life.
After reading (nearly) all the threads (and Michaele’s book) I got the impression that Brodie was someone who made up his whole life.

Probably he dreamt of being a boxer or a show-star, but I doubt that he ever made an attempt to make his dreams come true. Not necessarily because of a lack of talent, but because he was unable to deal with the setbacks real life would have offered him.

I think George Brodie was in his way mentally disturbed – but NOT mentally ill like George Waters. He probably saw himself surrounded by a world of enemies who would not acclaim brilliance on purpose (and out of jealousy) and whom he had to fool to get what he – in his opinion – deserved.


One thing is for sure:

George Brodie would have enjoyed reading this thread and he would have been thrilled by the mere fact that over25 years after his death people from all over the world discuss and research about him and his life.
And he would not have bothered at all that these people are interested in his person because the consider him a suspect in a hideous crime.

Welcome to the forum, Mischa. I completely agree with your comments. I have always believed that Brody manufactured a great deal of his life story. I think that there may be kernels of truth hidden in the details. For example, whereas he most likely lied about being a professional boxer, he must have had some level of interest in the sport, either as a spectator or a dabbler, or perhaps experience on a scholastic team.

I'm sure the old fool would have been delighted to know that we try to dissect his history. If such things are possible, I wouldn't put it past him to try to communicate from beyond the grave, in order to make the "game" more interesting to him.

Come on Georgie-porgie! This is a direct challenge. Send us some nuggets, so we can keep talking about you, you old ($#@@%&)!

[Sable]

I believe you must not take anything serious what he told George Waters or anybody else about his previous life.
After reading (nearly) all the threads (and Michaele’s book) I got the impression that Brodie was someone who made up his whole life.

Kind of off topic, but I do have some experience with someone that has done/ is doing this very thing. When I first met them, I was led to believe that she was a twenty something girl that had moved to the midwest after growing up in Beverly Hills. She claimed she designed clothing for stores such as Charlotte Russe, Forever 21, etc. She said she had a twin brother who had died a few years ago in a car accident. Then I found out she was (biologically) a he. The "twin" never existed... the twin was her before she started to change her gender from male to female. Designing clothes, living in Beverly Hills, everything she told me was a lie. When I confronted her about it, she denied it. I haven't spoken with her in a few years, but I'm sure she is still living a made-up life.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Kind of off topic, but I do have some experience with someone that has done/ is doing this very thing. When I first met them, I was led to believe that she was a twenty something girl that had moved to the midwest after growing up in Beverly Hills. She claimed she designed clothing for stores such as Charlotte Russe, Forever 21, etc. She said she had a twin brother who had died a few years ago in a car accident. Then I found out she was (biologically) a he. The "twin" never existed... the twin was her before she started to change her gender from male to female. Designing clothes, living in Beverly Hills, everything she told me was a lie. When I confronted her about it, she denied it. I haven't spoken with her in a few years, but I'm sure she is still living a made-up life.
:waitasec: Hummm, maybe Brody was a transgendered person...Evelyn Wanek's older sister did seem to vanish into thin air...:rolleyes: He was a very tiny petite thing.

[Mischa]

@ Natasha

Thanx for the nice welcome :-)


@ Interestedwoman

I don’t think Brody was a transsexual. Male and females have a different facial bone structure and if you look closely at most transsexuals you can see that they have the bone structure of the sex they were born with. George Brody doesn’t look female at all to me.

I can’t remember exactly when you did find the first records about Brody. Early 1960? The operations needed to change a human beings sex from female to male are much more complicated than the operations for those who go the opposite way (and these operations are also really dangerous) so I’m not sure if it was really possible to change sex from female to male before the late 1970. (The sex-assignments done before were done to pseudo-hermaphrodites I think. Males who just seemed to be female at birth due to female looking genitals)

@ Sable

I think your former friend was a afraid that she would not accepted as female if she would admit – even to herself - that she was born with a male body.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Interestedwoman

I don’t think Brody was a transsexual. Male and females have a different facial bone structure and if you look closely at most transsexuals you can see that they have the bone structure of the sex they were born with. George Brody doesn’t look female at all to me.

I can’t remember exactly when you did find the first records about Brody. Early 1960? The operations needed to change a human beings sex from female to male are much more complicated than the operations for those who go the opposite way (and these operations are also really dangerous) so I’m not sure if it was really possible to change sex from female to male before the late 1970. (The sex-assignments done before were done to pseudo-hermaphrodites I think. Males who just seemed to be female at birth due to female looking genitals)


:laugh: LOL...it was a joke. Several months ago someone jokingly suggested that maybe Brody was really a woman, and we all had a good laugh...Sables story reminded me of it...

Off Topic:
Welcome to WS. Our neighbors had an exchange student from Stuttgart living with them for a year...she was a neat girl, and she taught us all many German customs. We really miss her. I'm sure she was ready to get back to civilization. Poor thing had to live in the middle of nowheresville Nebraska!

[Mischa]

I'm glad it was . If George Brody was born as a woman there would have been hundereds of millions more possibilities concerning his identity ;-)

Well being Bavarian I have my own thoughts about civilisation in Stuttgart ;-))

Any Swabians here ?? ;-))

[Annasmom]

I have thought of this possibilty. The Muslims do something to show reverence to the names of Allah and Mohammed - they always add something like "Blessed be his name" (or something similar, even if it is just the initials of the phrase - "BBHN"). We could do something similar for Brody to insure that any mention of him receives the proper respect. I nominate that we always refer to him as "George (Mr. Poopy Pants) Brody". :D

How about the Enematic Mr. Brody?

[Cubby]

How about the Enematic Mr. Brody?

love it! But now I am going to be stuck on the lyrics to the song Vegematic and singing enematic. oh no. lol

[annemc2]

How about the Enematic Mr. Brody?

:laugh: Bwwwwwwaaaahahahaha! That's a good one!!

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Does anyone know if Doe Network was ever asked to post George Brody on their IUD pages? They do have a few listings that are kind of similar to the Brody story...such as this one for an example:
http://doenetwork.org/cases/454umoh.html

What do we need to do to have him listed...(if he wasn't already turned down.)

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Of all of the things that Brody said he was, what do you guys actually believe? As several of you stated, he probably stretched the truth on most everything...Like instead of being a boxer, he might have got punched out, and instead of a politician he was probably the vice president of his astronomy club. He seemed pretty adamant on being a "Leo", so maybe his birthday was really August 15th...or maybe his name was Leo...

I found another good GB candidate, his unusual last name is the same as Maureen (Evelyn Waneks niece) 1st husbands sir name, His Birthday is 8-15-15 and his WWII registration records say he was 5'4" 140 pounds and single at age 26. we'll see if I get a bite with my rootsweb posts.

[Gina_M]

Does anyone know if Doe Network was ever asked to post George Brody on their IUD pages? They do have a few listings that are kind of similar to the Brody story...such as this one for an example:
http://doenetwork.org/cases/454umoh.html

What do we need to do to have him listed...(if he wasn't already turned down.)

That sounds like a good idea!

According to their site, here are the requirements (http://www.doenetwork.org/criteria.html):

The victim died prior to or during the year 2005 in North America, Australia, or Europe
The case is filed with a law enforcement agency
A reconstructed image or a picture of the victim is available. Lacking that, we also feature pictures of tattoos, clothing or victim's possessions.

Was info about Brody ever filed with a law enforcement agency? In the case referenced above (Joseph Newton Chandler), his estate was being settled and it was discovered that he had stolen someone's identity.

ETA: It does also say "In exceptional circumstances, cases are added without a specific request from Law Enforcement."

[Annasmom]

Our Canadian friend Nancy has posted inquiries about George Brody on Craigslist in San Francisco, New York, Philadelphia and Massachusetts. I had a thought the other day that he might have had some chiropractic training because of a thing he did to my neck once before he became so deeply involved with running George Waters' life...you know, that thing they do which makes your neck crack (actually, it gives me the creeps to think about it now.) I suppose it's a long shot that he might actually have used his own name at some chiropractic school, but so far all our other queries haven't led us to anything much.

[InterestedNHelping]

the thing with the neck, and the fact that he was in SF and the bay area during the 60s- 70s, also makes me think of my friends who have alternative healing training, in Shiatsu, and ayurevedic, and other sorts of practices, incorporated into general practice around that time in those more 'liberal and accepting places' at the time. Brody was 'astrological' to say the least, perhaps it was a technique from another alternative practice also?

[Annasmom]

the thing with the neck, and the fact that he was in SF and the bay area during the 60s- 70s, also makes me think of my friends who have alternative healing training, in Shiatsu, and ayurevedic, and other sorts of practices, incorporated into general practice around that time in those more 'liberal and accepting places' at the time. Brody was 'astrological' to say the least, perhaps it was a technique from another alternative practice also?
Doogie, did you mention Brody's name when you wrote the Gearson Institute in San Diego?

[Dr. Doogie]

Doogie, did you mention Brody's name when you wrote the Gearson Institute in San Diego?

I did not because I assume that they could not talk about Brody based on "doctor/patient priviledge". Wanek, as a possible associate of the Institute, would not be covered by any such priviledge.

[InterestedNHelping]

I have been rereading the older parts of the forum, and it is bringing up some questions. I wanted to know if Doogie or Annasmom could specifically address the exact date that the large bank acct. still held by the state, was opened? The date might be critical in the research

[Dr. Doogie]

I have been rereading the older parts of the forum, and it is bringing up some questions. I wanted to know if Doogie or Annasmom could specifically address the exact date that the large bank acct. still held by the state, was opened? The date might be critical in the research

Bank of America (who may be the spawn of Satan) was extremely unhelpful when I tried to get any information about this box. They claimed that no records were kept for such abandoned accounts - something that I find highly unlikely considering the requirements that financial institutions have on their record keeping. Currently, I am at a stalemate on this issue.

[InterestedNHelping]

LOL, I agree with the spawn statement! However, if AMW or any press brought this mystery story to light, by big press from the book or otherwise, I think they might sing a different tune. Telling them that this case is becoming large and public, perhaps they would be 'champions' of information! grrrr

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I thought it was cash in the box, are you saying it was actually a bank account?

[smile22]

get le assigned to annas case to hound them for the info say u believe the records of this box hold important info

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I have been searching the net, but can't find anything...does anyone know if the armed services posts a "list" of missing AWOL soldiers? I've often thought that maybe Brody was worse than an WWII draft doger, but maybe an AWOL soldier who compleately changed his identiy rather than face the stiff charges (of that era) of running away.

[Dr. Doogie]

I thought it was cash in the box, are you saying it was actually a bank account?

You are correct - I was impercise in my description. It was cash in a safe deposit box. It is the paperwork for the rental of the safe deposit box that they are unwilling or unable to produce. Such a application ought to include a social security number and next of kin - two things that we are VERY interested in uncovering for Brody.

[smile22]

You are correct - I was impercise in my description. It was cash in a safe deposit box. It is the paperwork for the rental of the safe deposit box that they are unwilling or unable to produce. Such a application ought to include a social security number and next of kin - two things that we are VERY interested in uncovering for Brody.

cant you talk to le about having them look into the box and getting the info they need banks when confronted by le have to give out that info