The Box From Hell (BFH)

[Annasmom]

I just finished reading all the insurance policies in the BFH, the collection of George Waters’ papers which spent a few months in the San Mateo Sheriff’s office and which they returned to us recently. Some of the notes are actually in Greek, so I was able to decipher some new information and to put together some ideas about the papers.
All the policies are accident insurance policies, many of them flight or travel insurance, which suggests several things: GW probably wished to provide for GB in case of his death (never dreaming that GB would die first, which doesn’t lend much credibility to GB’s psychic abilities). It also suggests that GW was taking trips somewhere, since as far as I know, flight insurance is usually available only in airports. This would have been truly royal support, adding up to at least a million dollars (not counting the Lloyd's of London policy), maybe more. Every policy was made out with GB as the irrevocable benefactor (meaning that the benefactor could not be changed during his lifetime), and each contained documents to that effect, plus correspondence and notarized statements sent by certified mail. There was no signature, social security number, birth date or any other clue about Brody, who was identified only as “friend”.
There was a small memo book with a 1969 calendar on the back, very worn and taped up, which had some notes of interest, along with some rather funny shopping lists (suspenders, belt 36” black, moth cake for hat box, get Grecian Formula 16 for G). In addition to reminder notes, there were vocabulary lists, music and film recommendations, and one particularly affectonate draft for a letter accompanying the Lloyd’s policy for GB’s birthday.
There were many questions regarding the insurance policies, almost certainly dictated by GB, who was especially interested in knowing whether an executor or beneficiary could be held responsible for the insured’s debts and whether he would have to pay for a burial. Questions were referred to one BMW, who seems to have been a lawyer, and to Miss Hughes, Bowerth(?), 155 Sansome Street, 94109, who seems to have been an insurance company employee.
A note dated 5/20/71 says “In 2-3 mos contact BMW to have a will made out to ACE in am’t of one dollar.” Another note dated 9/1/71 says “Given O.K. to take M’s picture on vacation.” Yet another one says “tentative plan c L/L 1970, 1971 1.75 per an--1972 ^ (increase) to 17.50.” I believe this note is related to the note Doogie found with the date of Jan. 16, 1973 on it and that L/L refers to a huge Lloyd’s policy which has been mentioned elsewhere.
I found references to “passport off.”, “Executor”, “Call Apha re Isr” and “Italian consul”, but only as items on lists.
I believe the scrupulous accounts (including receipts for every child support payment) were meant to allay Brody’s fears that he might be held accountable for some debt. GW did have several outstanding loans, though he seemed to be earning quite a lot of money.
His last child support payment was made Dec. 26, 1972, to “Anna Christian Eifee Waters”. On Dec. 25, 1981, George apparently paid all his bills from his Barclays Bank Account, leaving a balance of $926.61 (Brody died Dec. 24, 1981.)
The most interesting thing in the memo book was the following (probably written in 1970 or 1971):
FINAL/SOLUTION
Lv. G enough food to withstand & combat any poss. onslaught
Paraphenalia c itemized receipts in container(s)
TK pict/Margaret.

Lastly, there are bank records from August, 1969 to Aug. 4, 1976, and then resuming in October, 1977 and continuing through December of 1981. This seems to be amazingly complete except for one period.

[Dr. Doogie]

Wow!!

[InterestedNHelping]

WOW again! It seems that taking M's picture and TK Pic of Margaret, seems that it was important to take her pic along and keep her identity private, possibly because she had something to do with Anna's dissapearance.

The purpose of $1 inheritance is so that a will cannot be contested by this person or anyone related to this person. It seems that the worry was again money involving Anna (in their weird thoughts).

Would love to know what 'paraphenalia meant...possibly cyanide???

Alot of speculation..will explore further on Monday

Very interesting stuff!

[MagicRose99]

I believe Margaret died years before Anna disappeared, so Margaret couldn't have been part of whatever happened to Anna... unless it somehow helped hide Anna's identity.

[Annasmom]

I finally found the full name and the 1969 address of someone mentioned in GW's notes, an attorney. If we can get a current address, I can write him and ask if he remembers anything which might pertain to Anna.
P.S. Sherlock Jr. found the current address immediately, so I'll write him.

[GraceBlue]

Wow! I must say these two men (GB and GW) have to be the most complicated men I've ever come across/heard of. I had to read this post about 3 times to process what they did or were planning on doing. I think the take a pic of 'M' is weird. Could they have changed Anna's name to something that starts with a M? Margaret? Since GB thinks she's a recarnation of MK.
Honestly, I have no idea what to think. It sure is complicated! Thank you for sharing this with us Annasmom. I hope you get in touch with the people that are on the documents!

[SherlockJr]

Any of these accidental death insurance policies dated near the time Anna went missing?
That is true about not being able to contest a will leaving $1 for someone. However, that was in 1971.
It sounds like he was planning a vacation in Sept 1971, any clues to where he went?

Another thing about his bank receipts. Is there any significant transactions in the bank statements from Dec. 72 - April 73? Either a large deposit that was made or any large withdrawls.

[Annasmom]

Any of these accidental death insurance policies dated near the time Anna went missing?
That is true about not being able to contest a will leaving $1 for someone. However, that was in 1971.
It sounds like he was planning a vacation in Sept 1971, any clues to where he went?

Another thing about his bank receipts. Is there any significant transactions in the bank statements from Dec. 72 - April 73? Either a large deposit that was made or any large withdrawls.
I am quite sure he had bank accounts other than those I found. The reason for leaving these was to prove he had paid his debts so that Brody would not be responsible for them. I'll look at the dates again. These papers were edited before he died, so anything significant I find is probably going to be something he overlooked.

[Cubby]

I'm still digesting this and wanted to see a few replies before responding. I just got a strange feeling regarding the accident policies, ACE, the $1 will, and being allowed to take pictures of "M" - Could M be Anna? . That strange feeling, revolved(s) around GB's manipulation and a possibility that GW was manipulated into being something like a poor widower father......... who was unable to care for his daughter himself, and believed she needed a "mom/intact family" - not that she did not have one, but knowing the history behind GW's behavior before and after Anna was born- and was adopted out to a family who allowed GW to visit....... That he traveled to see her - somewhere that GB had strong emotions toward a certain nationality. Maybe not his own nationality, but one he admired....... and if Anna had occasional visits with her "father" believing her mother was not alive, and knew of her fathers passing............. She wouldn't have reason to be searching.

I believe something like that would be easy to pass off.......

The only other thought that I have regarding "M" is GW emulating GB's flirting and getting a kick out of believing someone was over the top for him.

We really need to find some way to determine where GW traveled, if he did in fact travel. -or/and- find some other "associates".

What I would give to find any other followers.........

[Annasmom]

Wow!!
Doogie, Happy almost-your-Birthday!

[SherlockJr]

:HappyBday

Here on Eastern Time we are celebrating Dr. Doogie's birthday already. Have a wonderful birthday Doogie. Many more to come!

[GraceBlue]

Happy Birthday Doogie!!!! :HappyBday

[InterestedNHelping]

Happy, Joyful, Fun Birthday to Ya Doogie!

[Dr. Doogie]

It seems that taking M's picture and TK Pic of Margaret, seems that it was important to take her pic along and keep her identity private, possibly because she had something to do with Anna's dissapearance.

It is impossible that Margaret had anything to do with Anna's disappearance - remember that she died before Anna was even born and had been incapacitated for some period of time before her death. Also, the two Georges had just begun their relationship at the time of her death.

Consider the plausibilty of the suggested scenario: Brody, a woman who was slipping in and out of a coma (Kukoda), and a newly met friend (Waters) all conspire to abduct a child who was yet to be born from a wife (who was yet to be an ex-wife). It doesn't make sense.

[Dr. Doogie]

Another note dated 9/1/71 says “Given O.K. to take M’s picture on vacation.”

This is very wierd. The phrasing of this is consistent with other things where Waters received permission from Brody to do certain things (there is a note granting Waters permission to emulate Brody, for instance). I believe that "M" refers to Margaret, but why would George want to carry a picture of Margaret on vacation?

I agree that discovering where he went on vacation would be very helpful. Annasmom, based on the time frame outlined by the note, have you been able to cross-reference any of the check registers or, perhaps, credit card receipts that might point to where he went. Waters did not seem like the type of guy to just take off and sit on a beach in Cabo. He was up to something.

[Dr. Doogie]

:HappyBday

Here on Eastern Time we are celebrating Dr. Doogie's birthday already. Have a wonderful birthday Doogie. Many more to come!

Thank you, though you are a day early (Tuesday, the 19th, is the big day). I keep waiting to hear that it will be declared a national holiday, but I am always disappointed. :blushing:

[GraceBlue]

Annasmom-
You stated the last child support check GW made out for Anna was Dec. 26, 1972. Was he always good about sending money on time? Anna went missing Jan 16, 1973. From what I understand, no one was able to find GW to inform him of Anna's disappearance. If he didnt know about Anna's disappearance prior to Jan 26 (10 days after Anna disappeared) did he go ahead and write another check? Were there any issues regarding the child support payments after Anna disappeared?

[SherlockJr]

I finally found the full name and the 1969 address of someone mentioned in GW's notes, an attorney. If we can get a current address, I can write him and ask if he remembers anything which might pertain to Anna.
P.S. Sherlock Jr. found the current address immediately, so I'll write him.

A phone call to the retired attorney was fruitless. He pleaded the fifth!

[Dr. Doogie]

A phone call to the retired attorney was fruitless. He pleaded the fifth!

Did he claim attorney/client privledge or did he actually plead the fifth?

[SherlockJr]

Did he claim attorney/client privledge or did he actually plead the fifth?


He did not mention attorney/client privledge because I told him early in the conversation the persons involved were deceased. His quote: "I do not remember the name".

[tuitsweet]

Let the Sheriff's have a go at the Attorney :rolleyes:

[SherlockJr]

Let the Sheriff's have a go at the Attorney :rolleyes:


Good idea Tuits! I wish they would call him. They know who to call to get the number!

[GraceBlue]

Happy Birthday Doogie!!!!!!!!!!:HappyBday

[Cubby]

Happy Birthday Doogie!

:HappyBday :HappyBday

(There is another thread for you in the Jury Room)

[Dr. Doogie]

Thanks, guys! :blushing:

[Rhett]

Any thoughts on if the picture of "M" referred to in the BFH might be a picture of Anna's mom Michaela(sp?).

[Dr. Doogie]

Any thoughts on if the picture of "M" referred to in the BFH might be a picture of Anna's mom Michaela(sp?).

Hmmmm....

I hadn't considered that. Give me some time to mull that over and compare it to some other information that may relate.

[Annasmom]

Hmmmm....

I hadn't considered that. Give me some time to mull that over and compare it to some other information that may relate.
It also occurred to me that it might have meant "take a photograph of M while on vacation", which is much more sinister.

But away with sinister thoughts. Happy Birthday, Fabulous Doogie!

[kyresearcher]

DrDoogie,I join all of the others in wishing you a Happy Birthday.

[mfmangel1]

:HappyBday :HappyBday :HappyBday



Even though it is not my birthday, too...as the lyrics state, I believe the song is appropriate! Happy Birthday to our fearless leader, Dr. Doogie, from the Beatles...

Birthday lyrics

You say it's your birthday
It's my birthday too--yeah
They say it's your birthday
We're gonna have a good time
I'm glad it's your birthday
Happy birthday to you.

Yes we're going to a party party
Yes we're going to a party party
Yes we're going to a party party.

I would like you to dance--Birthday
Take a cha-cha-cha-chance-Birthday
I would like you to dance--Birthday
Dance

You say it's your birthday
Well it's my birthday too--yeah
You say it's your birthday
We're gonna have a good time
I'm glad it's your birthday
Happy birthday to you.

[smile22]

posting i saw but cant remember if it was this thread or something else in annas area of threads. Someone mentioned the lawyer and contacting him and he didnt remember the partys what if we sent him pictures of brody and waters? maybe he would remember them what if we made contact again and said this info we are looking for has to do with a missing child from the 70s. is it possible to find out if the 1$ was ever claimed?

i was thinking about my crazy aunt the other day she kinda reminds me of brody shes very skizto afraid people are out to get her she clutches her important papers and hides and rehides them all the time. she wasnt always like this the past 5 or 6 years she has gone from being a normal person to going crazy.

is it possible something happend to brody and thus beacme the person that he is? could he have created this brody person beacuse he was hiding from his real life? could he be somehow listed as a missing person who wanted to skip out of life ( goes missing then creates this new name george brody)

[Dr. Doogie]

It also occurred to me that it might have meant "take a photograph of M while on vacation", which is much more sinister.

As I recall, there are references to Annasmom in the BFH where Waters lists her name as the initial "M". As I recall the timeline of events, the "vacation" in 1971 would have been near the end or immediately following the conclusion of divorce proceedings. Waters' writings at the time were filled with venomous remarks concerning Annasmom (which puts this picture comment in an even more sinister light).

Recall that two years earlier (at the start of the divorce process), Waters had sent the "Rommel Letters", attempting to learn the exact dosage of cyanide that General Rommel and Herman Goerring had used to commit suicide. Annasmom and I have differing interpetations of this: she suspects that he may have been considering suicide at that point, but I wonder if he may have been considering something worse - murdering Annasmom. I cannot see Brody "approving" of Waters killing himself, since suicide usually invalidates any life insurance policies and Waters would not have acted without Brody's permission. So if the cyanide was not to be used to kill himself, who was it for? It seems logical that it could have been meant for the person who Waters felt was responsible for anything that had gone wrong for him and had rejected Brody as the man "more gifted as Jesus" - Annasmom. My suspicion is that he either did not receive the information that he sought, or that he lost his nerve, so the two Georges moved on to another plan to exact revenge - to abduct Anna.

We already have concluded that the two Georges always seemed to convince themselves in the justification of their actions - that, in their minds, they were agents of good. Toss into this mix the bad feelings (fueled by the rantings of Brody) that Waters felt toward Annasmom and you can easily see that Waters and Brody might feel justified in removing Anna from what they saw as a bad situation of being raised by an awful person. This could be a motive.

The will leaving Anna $1 shows that they also were concerned that Anna was a threat to Brody receiving any estate from Waters if he passed away. The BFH contains a letter to the U.S. State Department asking that Brody (and only Brody) be notified if Waters were to die while overseas, specifically asking that no family be notified. The insurance policies were drawn up with Brody as the "irrevocable beneficiary", meaning that as long as Brody was alive, nobody (including Waters) could change the beneficiary. All of these point to the fact that Brody (and, by default, Waters) was extremely paranoid that Anna (as Waters' sole legal heir) would somehow prevent Brody from getting "his" money. This would also provide a motive to make Anna "disappear".

[GraceBlue]

WOW Doogie! That is probably the most logical 'theory' I've heard in Anna's case so far. Between seeing 'an older and a younger man in a car' and GW going on a 'vacation' around the time Anna disappeared it all fits. Sadly, I wouldnt be surprised at all if that is exactly what happened.
GB was a very selfish, evil man. I wouldnt be surprised if he took out a life insurance policy on Margaret and got money off her death. Or other women.
Is there any way we can find out if they took out a life insurance policy on Anna?

[SherlockJr]

I also agree that the "M" is Annasmom. However when that was written on 9-1-71, Annasmom and family were already on their vacation and returned back home around Nov 71.

There was also another note found in the BFH written sometime in 70 or 71 referred as "final/solution".

FINAL/SOLUTION
Lv. G enough food to withstand & combat any poss. onslaught
Paraphenalia c itemized receipts in container(s)
TK pict/Margaret.


Here he does not refer to Margaret as "M". Also the initials TK. Is there a Kukoka with the first name beginning with a "T"?

Speaking of the will of GW. Is it possible that a family member may still have a copy of his will? Or a trip to the courthouse may be worthwhile.

[GraceBlue]

Sherlock: TK could mean 'take'

ETA He wrote "lv" for leave and I really think "tk" is "take"

[GraceBlue]

Just had a thought, could it be they brought a picture of Margaret with them when they went on vacations?

[Dr. Doogie]

There was also another note found in the BFH written sometime in 70 or 71 referred as "final/solution".

FINAL/SOLUTION
Lv. G enough food to withstand & combat any poss. onslaught
Paraphenalia c itemized receipts in container(s)
TK pict/Margaret.

The Rommel Letters occured around February-April 1969. The exact timing of the "Final/Solution" note now becomes important (it likely that it was during the period between 1969 and the 1971 vacation). The F/S note looks to me like GW may have been preparing to kill himself, though since his insurance policies were for "accidental death", a suicide by cyanide would have not paid any benefits to Brody.

It is very odd that four years after her death (and whatever usefulness that she would have been to Brody), a picture of Margaret would have been important.

[Dr. Doogie]

It dawns on me that the entire suicide angle of this may have been a "test" created by Brody for Waters to prove his devotion. It could have been that Brody led GW up to the point of actual swallowing the cyanide, only to grant him a "reprieve" at the last moment. This would have demonstrated how far Waters would go for Brody, and Waters would only worship Brody more after this show of "benevelance".

[InterestedNHelping]

I agree that so far Dr. Doogie's theories sound very viable. When reading the final solution, I theorize that it is extremely possible that this abduction was being planned for a long time, and that the name Margaret could very well have been given to Anna, and she became a Margaret....That solution thing sure seems to spell itself out, G. needs to survive, paraphenalia for suicide, and Anna being named Margaret.

[tuitsweet]

Could it be they needed a 'picture' of a 'mother' to show Anna, someday, as this was your Mother/Grandmother...?

[Dr. Doogie]

Could it be they needed a 'picture' of a 'mother' to show Anna, someday, as this was your Mother/Grandmother...?

Seems plausible to me.

[SherlockJr]

Sherlock: TK could mean 'take'

ETA He wrote "lv" for leave and I really think "tk" is "take"

GraceBlue, I thought it stood for take also. When I seen both were capitalized, I began to think of initials. Maybe Annasmom can clarify if they were capital letters.

[mysteriew]

FINAL/SOLUTION
Lv. G enough food to withstand & combat any poss. onslaught
Paraphenalia c itemized receipts in container(s)
TK pict/Margaret.

Lv= looks like a word, probably leave. The L is capitalized, the v is small.
TK= are both capitalized. Like initials of a name or a place.
/ =isn't that usually referred to as per? or in math it would be read over?
c= is there a mark over the c? remember that doctor's often use medical shorthand and a c with a mark over it means "with"

Leave George enough food to withstand and combat any possible onslaught.
Paraphenalia c (either see or with) itemized receipts in container.
TK picture per Margaret. ??? Or= TK picture over Margaret???

You said there was a mention of Italian counsel in the box. Why would either of the G's need Italian counsel? Possible adoption?

Is there a well known place in Italy with the initals of TK?

[GraceBlue]

SherlockJr- Hmm. Sometimes when people write "K" it looks the same to me, whether it is capitalized or lower case. If you know what I mean? Was the note handwritten or typewritten?

[Annasmom]

SherlockJr- Hmm. Sometimes when people write "K" it looks the same to me, whether it is capitalized or lower case. If you know what I mean? Was the note handwritten or typewritten? This was handwritten in a small memo book and nothing was capitalized. It's my typing which is confusing. Tk was "take", LV was "leave", and the c was that little symbol with the dash over the top which GW used to mean "with".
Something new of interest: I found a list of phone numbers (again researched in 1982 by Joe Ford) which GW called the day GB died and several days after that. One of the numbers belonged to an anesthesiologist, and they had several extended conversations, one of them very shortly before GB died. Since GB had an epigastric tube because of his throat cancer, this strongly suggests euthanasia to me, and it would have been a simple matter under the circumstances. There was no autopsy, and the coroner's investigation seems to have been rather superficial, since the doctor who signed the death certificate (GW) was right there.

The poison, then, was on hand, and GW in a state of deep depression probably decided, after he had gone through all the papers and destroyed whatever he didn't want to leave, probably just took the rest of it.

This makes more sense to me than the idea that either one of them wanted to do ME in. Actually, I doubt they thought of me at all at that point.

[InterestedNHelping]

That was and is a common scenario, today we use morphine, and hospice, but in those days, doctors and nurses relieved suffering in the ways they knew how (I have older medical friends who would attest to that being the way back then)

There are two things that I keep coming back to, over the last year that I wanted to know if they could be addressed?
1. The most important being...When Annasmom signed papers to change Anna's middle name, did she keep the papers, and what was on those papers exactly?
2. It strikes me as strange (what doesn't with all of this?) that GB, knowing he was dying, did not revert the monies and life insurance policies back to GW, unless he knew that GW would take his own life right away in order to be with GB in the afterlife? Or did he? Did GW have alot of life insurance after his death? I can't seem to figure out who's policies were whose at the time.

[SherlockJr]

This was handwritten in a small memo book and nothing was capitalized. It's my typing which is confusing. Tk was "take", LV was "leave", and the c was that little symbol with the dash over the top which GW used to mean "with".

Thanks for clearing this up.


This makes more sense to me than the idea that either one of them wanted to do ME in. Actually, I doubt they thought of me at all at that point.

You are probably right by this time they were not thinking of you. They already got you by getting Anna from you. But 10 years earlier, you may have been the target.

[Annasmom]

There are two things that I keep coming back to, over the last year that I wanted to know if they could be addressed?
1. The most important being...When Annasmom signed papers to change Anna's middle name, did she keep the papers, and what was on those papers exactly?
2. It strikes me as strange (what doesn't with all of this?) that GB, knowing he was dying, did not revert the monies and life insurance policies back to GW, unless he knew that GW would take his own life right away in order to be with GB in the afterlife? Or did he? Did GW have alot of life insurance after his death? I can't seem to figure out who's policies were whose at the time.
I don't remember signing any papers to change Anna's middle name. I think her father did it in person at the Department of Records. All I have is copies of two birth certificates, one before the name change and one after.
I have not found ANY life insurance in the BFH. All the policies (and there must be at least 50) are accident insurance on George Waters, with George Brody named as the irrevocable beneficiary.

[Cubby]

A few more questions and comments......

I think it is presumptious to think Waters would have shared his suicidal thoughts with Brody. I'm under the impression, Waters sought more approval and asuicidal side would have demonstrated more vulnerability.

After reading about the "M" vacation picture, (and my initial thoughts were right on with Annasmom, thinion) makes me wonder about Margaret being childless. Some spouses were found, did Margaret bear any children? Did she lose any children? Did she desire children? What were her feelings about inferitlity? Could that be an angle, considering legal adoption was far more difficult/restrictive back then. I have a family example, and keeping it short they had a one year window, and if a child was not available within that year, it wasn't "Gods will".

If Brody was "bigger" than Jesus, could Margaret have become more of an icon somehow after her death, and the fact that her ulimate death was what initially brought the Georges together.

[SherlockJr]

A few more questions and comments......

After reading about the "M" vacation picture, (and my initial thoughts were right on with Annasmom, thinion) makes me wonder about Margaret being childless. Some spouses were found, did Margaret bear any children? Did she lose any children? Did she desire children? What were her feelings about inferitlity? Could that be an angle, considering legal adoption was far more difficult/restrictive back then. I have a family example, and keeping it short they had a one year window, and if a child was not available within that year, it wasn't "Gods will".

Nothing has been confirmed about spouses yet. These were from some directory listings that JF had on some notes. We believe there were two George Brody's living in the SF area, the other GB was married and his wife's name was listed also. I don't think they are the same person. Same goes with MK, one year it listed she was a widow to _______. I will call the library tomorrow and find out if this information was actually in the directory for that particular year. There are no birth records in CA during the time of MK's child bearing years that list her maiden name. I do not believe she had any children. Her death record states that she lived in CA for 30 years which puts her in CA in the year 1937 at the age of 20.

[InterestedNHelping]

I don't remember signing any papers to change Anna's middle name. I think her father did it in person at the Department of Records. All I have is copies of two birth certificates, one before the name change and one after.
I have not found ANY life insurance in the BFH. All the policies (and there must be at least 50) are accident insurance on George Waters, with George Brody named as the irrevocable beneficiary.


I find this disturbing, that GW went to the county records in person possibly, and filed the paperwork. I wonder, if it could be possible to get copies of all papers submitted to the State Records, regarding Anna that could possibly have been submitted by GW. At the time, it may have meant nothing more than a name change, but in retrospect, I keep wondering what he may have filed at that time, that opened the legal doors for him to have Anna, and take her elsewhere (under Brody's influence of course) In the aforementioned 'Plan" about ACE and whatnot, there is mentioned that Final Arrangements with Ls (lawyers I think) have been made.
I have theorized for quite some time,that there was more than a name change that occured, and that the name change was the beginning of something more, and later things with lawyers took place, the question is what? The legalities after you change a name, to put a child up for adoption etc, are possible, and I think it is very important to request the records, (even if you have the birth certs already) and get everything provided to the state regarding Anna. There could be more than you might think is there, possibly.
I have found that when that name change occurs, you can file other paperwork with the state, (when doing adoption, or single custody, etc) at the same time. I am certain about this, as I have found it working on other cases, so it is worth checking into.

[Dr. Doogie]

(Margaret's) death record states that she lived in CA for 30 years which puts her in CA in the year 1937 at the age of 20.

I suspect that this information on the death certificate was incorrect by about five years. The Kukoda family has confirmed that Margaret came to San Francisco during WWII, so that would probably put it around 1942.

[Dr. Doogie]

...Same goes with MK, one year it listed she was a widow to _______.

The note refers to just a first name for the "husband" (not George or Russell). Most widows do not revert back to their maiden name (especially in the 1950's), so this entry is very curious (and suspect).

[itsreenw]

Doogie, belated Happy Birthday!!

This may be addressed somewhere already but what if anything have you heard about a passport being issued for Anna? Did the office ever reply?

What I am making of all the info above is that first of all, I believe GB intended to kill GW after all his insurance policies were written up to his satisfaction and all the legal docs were in effect to prevent Anna from claiming anything later. I can understand taking out one policy but he was going to be rich when GW died. He seemed to know GW was going to die an "accidental" death. Secondly, it is unlikely that GB would have allowed GW to go on vacation for leisure. He worked him like a dog. Where ever GW was going it was probably specifically to do something for GB's benefit.

The notes had the following references:

"given ok" to tk M's picture on vacation. - I believe he was referring to Margaret. GB worshipped the memory of that woman and if Anna reminded him of her at all, it is possible GB gave GW "permission" to take an existing photo of Margaret with him and Anna to show how much she resembled her 'mom'. Especially if he was going to another country to give Anna to her unsuspecting adoptive parents. I dont believe it was GB's intention to kill Anna or he wouldn't have been so concerned about her coming to claim his inheritance.

Going over the 'to do' list, these are what I think he may have meant:

passport off(ice)
executor (of a will?)
Italian Consul(ate). So perhaps a trip to Italy?
Call Apha regarding Isr...(APHA is short for American Public Health Assoc) www.apha.org (http://www.apha.org) . Maybe "Isr" is supposed to mean insurance. Or it could mean American PHarmacist Assoc. www.aphanet.org (http://www.aphanet.org).

Maybe GW was contacting them to ask about obtaining drugs for GB so he'd have enough while GW was away or maybe to inquire about the suicide drugs.

Final/Solution
Food and water for GB incase of onslaught, Paraphernalia and itemized receipts in containers...

Obviously he wanted to make sure GB had enough to eat and drink in case he became so ill he couldn't get those things himself. Maybe even kill himself if it came to that. Maybe the paraphernalia and itemized receipts in container(s) were to show the meds/needles or whatever was going to be used to commit suicide, had been purchased/prescribed by a licensed doctor. GB would of course, make GW take responsibility for his death.

I may be waay off but with this pair, anything was possible!

[mfmangel1]

After my Dad died and my Mom remarried an unscrupulous con man, he informed her that he had legally adopted me and that my named was now --------------. My Mom was from a very small town and very niave and believed him even though she didn't sign any papers, etc...

Of course, later on we found out that this was not true...Among many other things! Years later, we are still paying for some of his illicit deeds! :furious:

My Mom is no longer allowed to date! :crazy:

[Cubby]

I know this doesn't help with the search, but could the Rommel letters and Final Solution: Food and water for GB incase of onslaught, Paraphernalia and itemized receipts in containers... have some kind of reference with the vietnam war? Especially with GW's attempts at avoiding the draft.

Personally, I believe some of GW's psychosis had to have been witnessed by GB and it's likely GB, as manipulative as he was, took advantage of that fact "leading" GW into increasing fear only to "rescue" him for GB's gain.


I asked previously, in the GB thread I think, about Margaret having children. Thus far none have been found, at I doubt she did for some reason. However if she desired children and had infertility issues, is it possible Anna's abduction relates in some way, either to someone in MK's family ( close or distant ) or someone who GB placed upon a pedestol as he did MK and chose to give Anna to them?


Just some thoughts.......

[Dr. Doogie]

I asked previously, in the GB thread I think, about Margaret having children. Thus far none have been found, at I doubt she did for some reason. However if she desired children and had infertility issues, is it possible Anna's abduction relates in some way, either to someone in MK's family ( close or distant ) or someone who GB placed upon a pedestol as he did MK and chose to give Anna to them? ...

I entertained this possibility, but after speaking to members of the Kukoda family, I am convinced that they have no involvement (either illicit or innocent). They have been very forthright and helpful.

As to the question of any possible children by Margaret, we have not found any evidence of any offspring. The Kukoda family member that I spoke to stated that he suspected that our interest in Margaret might have been because we were an adoptive child looking for their birth family, but that is not based on any information that he had, just it seemed like a plausible explaination why we were asking the sort of questions that we were.

[InterestedNHelping]

Is there any hope of scanning and posting this multitude of papers for us, or is it only for a few folks to see? I ask, because after this much time, I think we should put out as much info as possible into finding Anna, at least, as much as Annasmom feels is appropriate.

[Dr. Doogie]

Ultimately, it would be Annasmom's call, but my feeling is that by definition these are the personal papers of George Waters and should be released sparingly as they directly relate to anything that we find. Remember that these papers came into our possesion because Waters's brother felt that they may be of assistance to Annasmom in finding Anna. Even though the internet was not in existance at that time, I am sure that making the papers available to the general public was not his intention.

[Annasmom]

Ultimately, it would be Annasmom's call, but my feeling is that by definition these are the personal papers of George Waters and should be released sparingly as they directly relate to anything that we find. Remember that these papers came into our possesion because Waters's brother felt that they may be of assistance to Annasmom in finding Anna. Even though the internet was not in existance at that time, I am sure that making the papers available to the general public was not his intention. That said, I will note that I have scanned every page of the little day calendar GW probably carried in his shirt pocket and forgot to destroy when he was editing his papers. SherlockJr and Doogie will have these, and it's fine with me if they want to post any of it. Except maybe the part about the Grecian Formula.

[InterestedNHelping]

25 years after Dr. Water's passing, I think that some of the papers would be either beneficial in exonerating Dr. Waters, or helping to find Anna. I would not expect that things that are personal in nature would be revealed, but things that relate to life in general would be helpful. My intention is not to desecrate his memory, but to find any clues from other angles than have been explored. Mostly things that relate directly to george Brody would be of most benefit to us, the public.
Sometimes, when someone else reviews things with a fresh viewpoint, things not seen before are revealed. Of course, whatever is shared with us is helpful, but I think after all this time, anything to help find Anna is valuable to her family, even the Water's family, who might find through all of this, that in fact, Dr. Waters was simply a victim of George Brody, which is what I think most of us believe here.
The problem is obvious, that things can be taken out of context and brutally desecrated, and that is the fear. I understand that this possibility is out there on a public forum. My heart is just wanting to find Anna, I want her mom to have closure in all of this, if that is meant to be.

[InterestedNHelping]

I will refrain from asking about the "Grecian formula", though from a public view point, I do remember the commercials, and a bottle of hair dye in dad's medicine cabinet! LOL

[Annasmom]

I will refrain from asking about the "Grecian formula", though from a public view point, I do remember the commercials, and a bottle of hair dye in dad's medicine cabinet! LOL
Yep, that's what it was!

[Dr. Doogie]

Wait a minute - GW taught in Greece, used Grecian Formula. We need to expand our search to Greece also!!! Oh, we already are looking there. I need a vacation... :D

[SherlockJr]

Here is a draft of a letter found in the papers in the BFH that Annasmom scanned and sent.

GW
POB 5589
SF
8/26/70

Rosicrucian Fellowship
Oceanside, Calif

Dear Sirs:
Enclosed please find $1.50 in currency which is to defray the cost for the Ephemeris for the year 1939.
Please send same promptly.

Respectfully,
GW


Then just below this he has written this note:

"Send for 1947 Ephemeris (Sigrid)"
(7/15/71)


Here is a link for Rosicrucian Fellowship: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucian_Fellowship

The word Ephemeris is Latin and comes originally from the Greek word "ephémeros, -on," meaning daily. Ephemeris is an almanac of the daily motions of the planets and stars.

Here is a link for Ephemeris:
http://www.findyourfate.com/astrology/ephemeris/1939.html

Notice on the left side a link for Numerology.

[SherlockJr]

"Send for 1947 Ephemeris (Sigrid)"
(7/15/71)

Could Sigrid be a proper name for Seka or maybe her last name?

[Dr. Doogie]

Could Sigrid be a proper name for Seka or maybe her last name?

I do not believe that Seka entered the picture until the mid-to-late 1970's.

[Dr. Doogie]

The two Georges were crazier than I thought.

[SherlockJr]

Another note is written to call his attorney (the one who pleaded the 5th) after 4/15/71 about question of increase in child support in Sept 1973. In this phone call he is to ask when to expect the ? (looks like crt...court?) to approach GW for the increase. How much to expect it to be (%). Then conclude the phone call with "although I am calling primarily on the basis of the respect and friendship I hold for you, I know you still have your rent to pay,so bill me for this consultation"

It appears the child support was scheduled to increase at a certain time. Near Anna's 6th birthday.

[Cubby]

Another note is written to call his attorney (the one who pleaded the 5th) after 4/15/71 about question of increase in child support in Sept 1973. In this phone call he is to ask when to expect the ? (looks like crt...court?) to approach GW for the increase. How much to expect it to be (%). Then conclude the phone call with "although I am calling primarily on the basis of the respect and friendship I hold for you, I know you still have your rent to pay,so bill me for this consultation"

It appears the child support was scheduled to increase at a certain time. Near Anna's 6th birthday.

It seems odd he would be concerned about a cs (child support) increase in 71 if it were not going to take effect until 73. My guess is the 73 date must have been noted in the divorce decree, and if this date (4/15/71) is in line with the insurance policies, perhaps he was preparing to make sure he had enough to cover CS after his death? It might make more sense if Annasmom has a copy of her divorce papers?

[SherlockJr]

It seems odd he would be concerned about a cs (child support) increase in 71 if it were not going to take effect until 73. My guess is the 73 date must have been noted in the divorce decree, and if this date (4/15/71) is in line with the insurance policies, perhaps he was preparing to make sure he had enough to cover CS after his death? It might make more sense if Annasmom has a copy of her divorce papers?

LOL, who's side are you on?

[Cubby]

LOL, who's side are you on?

Just made sense with my knowing the cs system far too well...though through the incompetancy with the IV-D agencies.

[MagicRose99]

Here is the Ephemeris for the year 1939... if anyone knows astrology? LOL!

http://www.findyourfate.com/astrology/ephemeris/1939.html

[Dr. Doogie]

I should know this (and it is in my files, I am just to lazy at the moment), but was Waters born in 1939?

[smile22]

what if we took that ephameris whatever it is to a numerolagist or someone who studys astrology and knows there stuff maybe they could be of some help?

[Annasmom]

It seems odd he would be concerned about a cs (child support) increase in 71 if it were not going to take effect until 73. My guess is the 73 date must have been noted in the divorce decree, and if this date (4/15/71) is in line with the insurance policies, perhaps he was preparing to make sure he had enough to cover CS after his death? It might make more sense if Annasmom has a copy of her divorce papers? I don't remember anything about an increase in child support at any time, but I'll try to find the divorce decree to see if such a thing is mentioned.

[Annasmom]

I should know this (and it is in my files, I am just to lazy at the moment), but was Waters born in 1939?

Yes, he was: April 14.

[Annasmom]

Another note is written to call his attorney (the one who pleaded the 5th) after 4/15/71 about question of increase in child support in Sept 1973. In this phone call he is to ask when to expect the ? (looks like crt...court?) to approach GW for the increase. How much to expect it to be (%). Then conclude the phone call with "although I am calling primarily on the basis of the respect and friendship I hold for you, I know you still have your rent to pay,so bill me for this consultation"

It appears the child support was scheduled to increase at a certain time. Near Anna's 6th birthday.
There is nothing about an increase in child support in the divorce decree, which I have in front of me. It says "It is further ordered, adjudged and decreed that the defendant (GW) shall pay to plaintiff the sum of One Hundred Seventy-Five ($175.00) Dollars per month for the support of their minor child, Anna C.E. Waters, payable on the first day of each month beginning on July 1, 1969, and continuing until said minor child reaches her majority unless sooner married, self-supporting, or deceased, or until the further order of the court." I did not go to court to seek an increase, and of course GW's lawyer wouldn't have sought an increase. I thought the letter cited about was about George's asking if he still had to pay child support after Anna's disappearance. He did not, of course, and I don't know what that means.

[Dr. Doogie]

It appears that this note is dated 1971, so he would not be asking about his financial responsibilities after Anna disappeared. If he was, this would be the proverbial "smoking gun" (evidence of his knowledge of Anna's upcoming disappearance), but that is not what it appears to be. It is a mystery why he was anticipating a child support increase that no one was requesting two years before he thought it was going to occur. Very odd...

[Dr. Doogie]

This is complete speculation, but I wonder if Brody (after viewing a pile of chicken innards or whatever kooky method he used to tell the future) had told Waters that Annasmom would be asking for an increase when Anna turned six? Waters would have bought this completely. Considering that Annasmom and Joe Ford were married in September 1972 and Waters was able to discontinue his alimony at that time, a CS increase would have been seen as a "reversal of fortune". This is another clue pointing toward a financial motive for Anna's disappearance.

[LisainWV]

If Brody was greedy enough to want an innocent child killed to stop Waters CS payments, don't you think he would have made sure that her body was found - leaving no doubts of her death and no doubts about stopping the child support? That is the one thought that has always given me hope that she was alive.

GW's statement about the tot being dead may have just been their way of referring to their plan of getting rid of her - kinda CYA stuff so that people bought into the idea that she was dead.

These guys were whacked out, but I just don't see them killing Anna and I don't think they would have been willing to pay out the bucks to have someone do it for them.

They had a foolproof way of getting paperwork for Anna that made it possible to go through with a "legal" adoption somewhere. I also think that is why she is so hard to find - the people around her have no idea that she was actually abducted.

My :twocents:

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

... but I just don't see them killing Anna and I don't think they would have been willing to pay out the bucks to have someone do it for them....My :twocents:

I'm positive you are right. It seems that the legacy of these guys have changed over the last few years. In the beginning, (way before I became a register member) this was how GW was described by Dr. Doogie on the 1st Anna Thread November 16, 2005. #20
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32211
Dr Doogie Wrote:
In the few years after Anna's birth, George's behavior became more irrational: demanding money from his family, complaints to Anna's mother concerning what was a small child support payment for Anna, crazy accusations toward any and all who used to be his friends. Waters was finally diagnosed as a paranoid-schizophrenic. His family decided against having him committed (even though he had shown himself to be a danger to himself and others) in an effort to let him maintain his doctor's license.



It's the "old" thoughts on GW that has influenced my thinking, (and the fact he was capable of killing, as in himself) The newer version of Waters is that he was a pretty great guy who was maybe just a little depressed with a mild touch of bi-polar who fell under the clutches of a 5'4" brain washing old man who thought he was the late JC in the flesh. :angel:

[Dr. Doogie]

Let me clarify my thoughts because I can now see where my words were not precise:

Waters was a threat to himself because of suicidal thoughts (suspected at the time and reinforced years later by the "Rommel Letters"). He was a threat to others because his judgment was impaired as a physician. I did not mean to imply that he posed a threat to "go postal" or that he exhibited the desire to inflict violence, though my words could certainly be interpeted that way.

[Annasmom]

Let me clarify my thoughts because I can now see where my words were not precise:

Waters was a threat to himself because of suicidal thoughts (suspected at the time and reinforced years later by the "Rommel Letters"). He was a threat to others because his judgment was impaired as a physician. I did not mean to imply that he posed a threat to "go postal" or that he exhibited the desire to inflict violence, though my words could certainly be interpeted that way. I might add that the psychiatrist who made the diagnosis thought he might be a threat to himself, but not to others. Apparently he was able to function capably enough in his work until the last year or so of his life. Statistics on the treatment of paranoid schizophrenia were not encouraging at that time. It seemed unlikely that an involuntary commitment could have any result other than removing the one area (work) in which GW was able to function somewhat normally.

[InterestedNHelping]

Schizophrenics, (if that is a truly correct diagnosis) are in the 90 percentile range, high 90s, of being only threats to themselves. They rarely hurt anyone else...and I can certainly see how that may have come into play involuntarily as a physician.
However, a little known secret, they are also often highly intelligent and high functioning individuals.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I read that GW claimed that Brody had wealthy family back east. I wonder how far east. If you are in a pacific coastal area, just about every where is east...LOL In the Box was there any mention of Colorado in it? What about professor Mariani from Greeley College?

[Dr. Doogie]

Not that I am aware of.

[SherlockJr]

With permission from Annasmom I am posting a couple pages at a time from GW's pocket calendar for all to review.

[Dr. Doogie]

Some deciphering of the above notes:

Chronicle = San Francisco Chronicle - the largest local newspaper

Roos = Roos Atkins - a department store (similar to Macy's)

G.G. College = Golden Gate College - a private university located in downtown SF

Stacey's Bookstore = a large general bookstore located a couple of blocks from where the two Georges lived

CMA = California Medical Association


Two things of interest in the above:

"Photo static copy of L I P {life insurance policy?} (notarized) to Geo. Registered letter to G. to {?}" Can anybody make out the missing word here?

And, does anyone know what Title 13 in the U.S. Code is relating to?

[Cubby]

Two things of interest in the above:

"Photo static copy of L I P {life insurance policy?} (notarized) to Geo. Registered letter to G. to {?}" Can anybody make out the missing word here?

And, does anyone know what Title 13 in the U.S. Code is relating to?


The missing word looks like "inform" to me.

Quick search on Title 13 is the US Census. My only thoughts here are they were looking into what info was collected with the 1970 census. -or- They did not want to be included in the census. -or- privacy issues related to the census.

What was Bonzana Inn?

[smile22]

i went to white pages with the phone numbers scribbled on the paper and used a 415 area code i am not sure how far that is in relation to Anna's case its a san fran area code is there another major city closer to half moon bay? the first number i did the 673 number came back as
Type: Land LineProvider: Pacific BellLocation: San Francisco, CA

its the same info with all of the other ones it said those numbers were unpublished. i found a website that u can use partial for business and just the 6 digit for residental i did partial and it gave me listings for ny ,ca, Washingon, then i did the full listing and gave me even more



http://ypng.infospace.com/home/yellow-pages/list.htm?&kcfg=ypus&searchtype=revphone&fromform=psearch&qp=-431-3900&qpx=431&qpp=3900&qk=10&top=1&qsubcat=firstpage&ypfwd=1&xmlurl=%252Fxml%252Fsearch%253FSRC%253Dinfospace%2 526search%253DFind%252BIt%2526PG%253DL%2526CS%253D H%2526T%253D%2526PB%253D%2526S%253D%2526Z%253D%252 6A%253D%2526X%253D431%2526P%253D3900%2526CID%253D% 2526K%253D%2526C%253D%2526N%253D%2526PI%253D%2526N A%253D%2526STYPE%253D%2526R%253DN&19162

[SherlockJr]

i went to white pages with the phone numbers scribbled on the paper and used a 415 area code i am not sure how far that is in relation to Anna's case its a san fran area code is there another major city closer to half moon bay? the first number i did the 673 number came back as
Type: Land LineProvider: Pacific BellLocation: San Francisco, CA

its the same info with all of the other ones it said those numbers were unpublished. i found a website that u can use partial for business and just the 6 digit for residental i did partial and it gave me listings for ny ,ca, Washingon, then i did the full listing and gave me even more


http://ypng.infospace.com/home/yellow-pages/list.htm?&kcfg=ypus&searchtype=revphone&fromform=psearch&qp=-431-3900&qpx=431&qpp=3900&qk=10&top=1&qsubcat=firstpage&ypfwd=1&xmlurl=%252Fxml%252Fsearch%253FSRC%253Dinfospace%2 526search%253DFind%252BIt%2526PG%253DL%2526CS%253D H%2526T%253D%2526PB%253D%2526S%253D%2526Z%253D%252 6A%253D%2526X%253D431%2526P%253D3900%2526CID%253D% 2526K%253D%2526C%253D%2526N%253D%2526PI%253D%2526N A%253D%2526STYPE%253D%2526R%253DN&19162

Interesting how a school district in Santa Ana comes up in your search.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

The missing word looks like "inform" to me.

Quick search on Title 13 is the US Census. My only thoughts here are they were looking into what info was collected with the 1970 census. -or- They did not want to be included in the census. -or- privacy issues related to the census.

What was Bonzana Inn?

I bet they where checking the privacy issues, considering the note on the law library and city hall beneath it. I'm sure they where glad to find that an amendment was added to title 13 in 1954 to exclude all names, addresses and social security information from being publish in any census reports. Great for them...but not so great for us genealogy buffs of the future to trace any family roots.

[SherlockJr]

2 more pages....

[MagicRose99]

The missing word looks like "inform" to me.

Quick search on Title 13 is the US Census. My only thoughts here are they were looking into what info was collected with the 1970 census. -or- They did not want to be included in the census. -or- privacy issues related to the census.

What was Bonzana Inn?

Wish we had a 1970s phone book... elsewhere on the page it says"
392-7378
Bonanza Inn
650 Market

[MagicRose99]

"Loss payable in US currency?"

Is this in regards to travel insurance maybe?

[SherlockJr]

I understand that most, if not all, the policies in the BFH are travel insurance policies.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Wish we had a 1970s phone book... elsewhere on the page it says"
392-7378
Bonanza Inn
650 Market

If you google Bonanza Inn CA I only see a Best Western Bonanza Inn and Convention center in Yuba

Best Western Bonanza Inn. Full Address, 1001 Clark Ave Yuba City, CA 95991-3314 Click Here for Driving Directions. Phone, 5306748824


And this reference: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0030-8684(194006)9%3A2%3C232%3ABIAFLH%3E2.0.CO%3B2-Q

Bonanza Inn: America's First Luxury Hotel by Oscar Lewis, Carroll D. HallAuthor(s) of Review: Elmer C. Sandmeyer
The Pacific Historical Review, Vol. 9, No. 2 (Jun., 1940), pp. 232-233
This article consists of 2 page(s).

[Annasmom]

If you google Bonanza Inn CA I only see a Best Western Bonanza Inn and Convention center in Yuba

Best Western Bonanza Inn. Full Address, 1001 Clark Ave Yuba City, CA 95991-3314 Click Here for Driving Directions. Phone, 5306748824


And this reference: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0030-8684(194006)9%3A2%3C232%3ABIAFLH%3E2.0.CO%3B2-Q

Bonanza Inn: America's First Luxury Hotel by Oscar Lewis, Carroll D. HallAuthor(s) of Review: Elmer C. Sandmeyer
The Pacific Historical Review, Vol. 9, No. 2 (Jun., 1940), pp. 232-233
This article consists of 2 page(s). I'm pretty sure this was a San Francisco motel. See SherlockJr's address listing above. Market Street isn't exactly the high-rent district.

[Dr. Doogie]

2 more pages....

Once again, Waters seemed to be obsessing on protecting Brody as the beneficiary against any possible claims by "friends and family". The more I see, the more I believe that this was the motive for Anna to be abducted.

[smile22]

http://www.spyralsearchsales.com/california.html

website has cal phone books from different years they do charge for the disk but i wonder if we contacted them about Anna's case they might be willing to help


CA - San Francisco 1970 Phone Book

*
Brisbane – Colma – Daly City – San Francisco
*
Treasure Island - Yerba Buena Island



Also included are parts of these towns:

*
Pacifica - South San Francisco


CA - San Francisco 1979 Phone Book

*
Brisbane – Colma – Daly City – San Francisco
*
Treasure Island - Yerba Buena Island



Also included are parts of these towns:

*
Pacifica - South San Francisco



CA - San Jose Suburban City 1972 Directory

* Santa Clara - Campbell - Cupertino
* Los Gatos - Monte Sereno - Saratoga

not sure if any of these places are close

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I've come to the conclusion that part of page Sunday 3 in the pocket calendar is in relation to some sort of seminar Dr. Waters was going to attend on Pessimism. Apparently he was looking for some suggested reading material for the seminar, (maybe held at the Bonanza Inn.)

The address of 650 market now belongs to a Photo shop.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Once again, Waters seemed to be obsessing on protecting Brody as the beneficiary against any possible claims by "friends and family". The more I see, the more I believe that this was the motive for Anna to be abducted.

Isn't that something? It sounds like Brody dictated everything Waters must ask a potential insurance company before he was allowed to get a policy.

I just hope that all this "him" & "he" language means "Brody" and not just generic language in regards to accident polices on Anna. Know what I mean? Hard to explain

[Dr. Doogie]

I just hope that all this "him" & "he" language means "Brody" and not just generic language in regards to accident polices on Anna. Know what I mean? Hard to explain

I think that is a safe bet, especially since he refers to "Geo." (George).

[Gina_M]

What is "M, Q, S, A"?

ETA - I think I figured it out. Monthly, Quarterly, Semi-annually, Annually.

[Dr. Doogie]

Gina, I believe that you are correct.

[SherlockJr]

2 more...

[smile22]

it said he wanted to apply for a po box does anyone know anything about that?

[SherlockJr]

2 more pages...

[GraceBlue]

Thank you for scanning these SherlockJr!

I have never came across anyone as complicated as those two Georges. GW lost his medical license but they dressed nicely, lived in a hotel, and were obessed with money/insurance policies, etc.

Couple of things that I am trying to understand: no.one. = is that no one or number one?
and birth certificate? Permanent Status? Hmm.

ETA: Who is/was "Mr Natural" ? Brody?

[GraceBlue]

I googled Mr Natural and got this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Natural_%28comics%29

:confused:

[SherlockJr]

It was actually Annasmom who scanned the pages and e-mailed them to me. I then had to forward to our Canadian friend who changed them to j-pegs so that they can be uploaded to this forum.

Now that you mention no.one, I am leaning toward pix of number one (probably meaning Brody).

[GraceBlue]

I dont know if this means anything but:

Mr. Natural. -- No. 1 (Aug. 1970) - no. 3 (1977). -- San
Francisco, Calif. : San Francisco Comic Book Co.,
1970-1977. -- Final issue published by Kitchen Sink. -- By
R. Crumb. -- LIBRARY HAS: no. 1-3 (1970-1977)
1. Underground comic books, strips, etc. I. Crumb, R. Call
no.: PN6728.45.A6M5


Source: http://www.lib.msu.edu/comics/rri/mrri/mr_n.htm

[Annasmom]

Thank you for scanning these SherlockJr!

I have never came across anyone as complicated as those two Georges. GW lost his medical license but they dressed nicely, lived in a hotel, and were obessed with money/insurance policies, etc.

Couple of things that I am trying to understand: no.one. = is that no one or number one?
and birth certificate? Permanent Status? Hmm.

ETA: Who is/was "Mr Natural" ? Brody? They were especially obsessed with anonymity. GW never lost his license, by the way. "Mr. Natural" and "No. One" were Brody, without a doubt.

[GraceBlue]

They were especially obsessed with anonymity. GW never lost his license, by the way. "Mr. Natural" and "No. One" were Brody, without a doubt.

Annasmom thank you for clarifying. I dont know why I thought GW lost his medical license. My bad.

Ok, so we have a long list of anonymous names!

[Dr. Doogie]

I dont know why I thought GW lost his medical license. My bad.


He had been fired from his last job for insubordination, but his license was still active.

[SherlockJr]

Can anyone figure out what ISR is? Has something to do with APHA.

[GraceBlue]

At first I thought maybe APHA was American Public Health Association but the only "ISR" i can find is related to horses: American Paint Horse Association. I am guessing its the American Public Health Association.

Perhaps someone could email APHA (health) to ask what ISR might be?

[Cubby]

Maybe August 11 is GB's real birthday. LOL at Mr. Natural........ why was it my initial reaction was GW making fun of GB? Grecian Formula came to mind..... how bad were hair plugs back then?

I'm confused on why B-Cert was in red, as the notes appear to all be insurance related. Would GW have needed his bc? GB's? Who's birth certificate was he talking about?

I'm torn on the pic of "no. one." - My initial reaction was GB not having to show any kind of photo/id as beneficiary.

[GraceBlue]

#5 is really weird "Cover all tracks except those signifying GB"

I am wondering if GB is from another country and has a different name. Could it be they wanted to make sure he would be the beneciary regardless of his citizenship.

[Dr. Doogie]

Waters eventally wrote a letter to one of his insurers attaching the studio portrait of Brody asking that this be used to identify Brody as the beneficiary. In other words, Brody would not have to show any official ID.

[SherlockJr]

this page is a continuance of last page...

[Dr. Doogie]

I googled Mr Natural and got this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Natural_%28comics%29

:confused:

From the Wiki site:

"Part wise man, part conman, Mr. Natural has strange, magical powers and possesses cosmic insight, but is also moody, cynical, self-pitying, and suffers from various strange sexual obsessions. He is endlessly being accosted by would-be disciples seeking the truth ... He typically regards them with amused condescension and a certain grudging affection, although his patience often wears thin and he takes sadistic pleasure in making them feel like idiots..."

Sound like anyone we know?

[Rhett]

Does last item on the left, number 25 read "Italian Consulate"?

[Dr. Doogie]

Does last item on the left, number 25 read "Italian Consulate"?

Yes. We have been looking into the possibility that Waters may have spirited Anna off to Italy as one scenario. This is why Annasmom has been trying to get any passport information on Anna.

[smile22]

number 21 on his list mony 781-6526 wasnt mony found someplace else
in the bfh
when i looked up the number without area code on infospace i get this for business
FedEx Kinko's(sm) Ship Center
7703 San Felipe Street
Houston, TX 77063
and for residental i get nothing
number 25 italian consul?
another thing that struck out at me as how he had the b cert bold and in red marker almost like a sharpie not sure if they were around then
then something about a perm nest status?

these two georges are getting stranger and stranger everything they write is in a code only they would understand

ok one more thing i noticed that he had check marks on the pages he had numbers listed i am assuming those were stuff he got done but a few of them had no check marks on them including the Italian consul

[Cubby]

Things I found for ISR

-Travel; abbreviation for Israel
-ISR Medical Association, aka IMA- Israel Medical Association
-Prescription drug 'isradipine' - used to treat high blood pressure among others which appear too new for the time GW mentioned ISR

Do any of these make sense to those closest to the investigation?

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

My take on theses pages give me a bad feeling.

First, all the planning and research...down to autopsies and special PO Box makes me think that possibly there was some illegal activity going on. For GB to benefit from this, GW would have to die. If GW where to die, then these accident policies would be Brody's "Final payment". GW was young, and had a good career...he was better off alive for Brody's needs. (following me here?)

I just have to wonder if all these policies where actually for Waters. Could some be for fictitious individuals, (tomb stone names). Brody seemed to be the POD for these policies, but was Waters actually the only insured? Was he planning on a fatal "accident" (at this time). Or could, (with Brody's instruction of course) be finding homeless people, terminal patients, and at risk individuals, (druggies/alcoholics) etc. and setting up policies for them?

I just can't see all these policies for Waters. Waters was Brody's gravy train, and he needed him ALIVE to continue to support him for the long road.

[MagicRose99]

this page is a continuance of last page...

On this page it has "IHR"... If we assume that other page was "IHR" instead of "ISR" (typo?) then it goes more with American Public Health Association

IHR = International Health Regulations (IHR)

[Gina_M]

number 21 on his list mony 781-6526 wasnt mony found someplace else
in the bfh

MONY was also mentioned on the "Plan". I think the common belief is that it stands for "Mutual of New York", where they may have gotten an insurance policy?

[Gina_M]

My take on theses pages give me a bad feeling.

First, all the planning and research...down to autopsies and special PO Box makes me think that possibly there was some illegal activity going on. For GB to benefit from this, GW would have to die. If GW where to die, then these accident policies would be Brody's "Final payment". GW was young, and had a good career...he was better off alive for Brody's needs. (following me here?)

I just have to wonder if all these policies where actually for Waters. Could some be for fictitious individuals, (tomb stone names). Brody seemed to be the POD for these policies, but was Waters actually the only insured? Was he planning on a fatal "accident" (at this time). Or could, (with Brody's instruction of course) be finding homeless people, terminal patients, and at risk individuals, (druggies/alcoholics) etc. and setting up policies for them?

I just can't see all these policies for Waters. Waters was Brody's gravy train, and he needed him ALIVE to continue to support him for the long road.


I seem to remember reading that Brody believed he would live forever. In that case, he would have outlived GW, and would need something to sustain him after GW was gone.

[Gina_M]

I'm confused on why B-Cert was in red, as the notes appear to all be insurance related. Would GW have needed his bc? GB's? Who's birth certificate was he talking about?


I think GW had some sort of concerns about his own birth certificate. He has B-Cert in red on pg 7 (I'm numbering these pages in the order they were posted), and then on pg 9 it says, in part, "In view of the fact that I have given you the name my birth certificate reads ____ _____ _____ whereas signature reads GH____ I would like to have an (?) opinion whether the sig should be made to read as the full name or if there is any poss. for discrepancy to arise from that."

[Cubby]

My take on theses pages give me a bad feeling.

First, all the planning and research...down to autopsies and special PO Box makes me think that possibly there was some illegal activity going on. For GB to benefit from this, GW would have to die. If GW where to die, then these accident policies would be Brody's "Final payment". GW was young, and had a good career...he was better off alive for Brody's needs. (following me here?)

I just have to wonder if all these policies where actually for Waters. Could some be for fictitious individuals, (tomb stone names). Brody seemed to be the POD for these policies, but was Waters actually the only insured? Was he planning on a fatal "accident" (at this time). Or could, (with Brody's instruction of course) be finding homeless people, terminal patients, and at risk individuals, (druggies/alcoholics) etc. and setting up policies for them?

I just can't see all these policies for Waters. Waters was Brody's gravy train, and he needed him ALIVE to continue to support him for the long road.

I follow you, however GB my questions revolve around who else named GB beneficiary, and what was he running from? No doubt some kind of criminal activity, but from where?

[Gina_M]

Does L L = Lloyd's of London? I know it was mentioned earlier that the "L" on the "Plan" could refer to Lloyd's of London where GW had a policy. Now on pg 6 we have "Tentative Plan" [some symbol] and then "L / L". On pg 9 we have [symbol] "L L as to how B identifies B conclusively." and "reread pol. re procedure for notifying L L of D." [I think D is for death because the line above that mentions a D. Cert.]

[kyresearcher]

It is really hard to read the notes that were found in GW wallet but I wonder if we could go through all of them and find all names listed, phone #'s listed and post them. I found the name L. Schapiro on note #4 and am curious as to who he is. If we could compile the list then someone could research them. I think it would be helpful if we took each note starting with #1 and see if we could decipre each word. I think with all of us working on them we could figure out each word, but then trying to make sense of them is another thing.

[SherlockJr]

2 more pages.....

[SherlockJr]

those last 2 were pretty small, here's 2 more....

[kyresearcher]

Sherlock, do you know if the last note is in GW's handwriting? So strange, but so is everything else but it sounds like a threat.

[SherlockJr]

I was told all this is in GW's handwriting.

[SherlockJr]

2 more....getting near the end...this first note talks about calling his attorney about question of increase in child support in Sept of 1973. I questioned Annasmom if she were expecting a child support increase 5 years after the divorce. She checked her divorce papers and found nothing noted of any increase.

[Dr. Doogie]

"Given permission to take M's picture on vacation."

This one has always bothered me - I believe M to be Annasmom, but it could be Margaret (Kukoda). Very weird either way.

[SherlockJr]

2 more pages...

[SherlockJr]

the last 2 from GW's planner book...

[SherlockJr]

This letter is interesting. Dated after Anna went missing. Remember the note talked about 3 months later increase to 5?

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Quotation from the Bible
And a Monologue (sp?) Interpretation

If because of your extreme
physical cowardice you fail
to complete your assignment
you will be permanently
incapacitated by paralysis
and coma. You must
ACT WITHOUT HESITATION
when the moment for action
arrives or never hope
to lift your face among
men. Nothing must deter
you!! Nothing under the sun
should deter you!!!



I have a pretty good knowledge of the Bible, but after searching several books and passages, I have yet to determine which book, chapter, verse(s) he is interpreting. Any Theologians out there have a clue?

[Dr. Doogie]

As part of the "Final Solution", Waters includes Austrian composer Anton Bruckner's 9th Symphony. Here is a Wiki link about Brucner:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Bruckner

Interestingly, here is what Wikis ays about the 9th Symphony:

"The final accomplishment of Bruckner's life was to be his Symphony No. 9 in D minor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._9_%28Bruckner%29) which he started in April 1891 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1891), and which he dedicated "To God the Beloved." The first three movements were completed by the end of 1894 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1894), the Adagio alone taking 18 months to complete. Work was delayed by the composer's poor health and by his compulsion to revise his early symphonies, and by the time of his death in 1896 he had not finished the last movement. The first three movements remained unperformed until their premiere in Vienna (in Ferdinand Löwe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_L%C3%B6we)'s version) on February 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_11), 1903 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1903).
Bruckner suggested using his Te Deum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Te_Deum) as a Finale, which would complete the homage to Beethoven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_van_Beethoven)'s Ninth symphony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._9_%28Beethoven%29) (also in D minor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_minor)). The problem was that the Te Deum is in C Major, while the 9th Symphony is D Minor, and, although Bruckner began sketching a transition from the Adagio key of E Major to the triumphant key of C Major, he did not pursue the idea. There have been several attempts to complete these sketches and prepare them for performance, as well as completions of his later sketches for an instrumental Finale, but only the first three movements of the Symphony are usually performed. "

Annasmom: How well known is this composer and would Waters have been familiar with his work on his own, or was this something that was more in line with Brody's input?

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Can anyone make out what is in parenthesis on the same line as
tk pict/Margaret in the Final solution. It is not included in red box, but it is on the same line. It seems to say (to Geo). as in take the picture of Margaret to George Brody...

[SherlockJr]

It appears to me to be (to God)????

[Dr. Doogie]

It appears to me to be (to God)????

Note who Bruckner's 9th Symphany is dedicated to - "To God the Beloved". The frightening thing is that Waters probably saw Brody as (gulp!) God and saw the symphany as a gift to him.

[Annasmom]

As part of the "Final Solution", Waters includes Austrian composer Anton Bruckner's 9th Symphony. Here is a Wiki link about Brucner:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Bruckner

Interestingly, here is what Wikis ays about the 9th Symphony:

"The final accomplishment of Bruckner's life was to be his Symphony No. 9 in D minor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._9_%28Bruckner%29) which he started in April 1891 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1891), and which he dedicated "To God the Beloved." The first three movements were completed by the end of 1894 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1894), the Adagio alone taking 18 months to complete. Work was delayed by the composer's poor health and by his compulsion to revise his early symphonies, and by the time of his death in 1896 he had not finished the last movement. The first three movements remained unperformed until their premiere in Vienna (in Ferdinand Löwe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_L%C3%B6we)'s version) on February 11 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_11), 1903 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1903).
Bruckner suggested using his Te Deum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Te_Deum) as a Finale, which would complete the homage to Beethoven (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_van_Beethoven)'s Ninth symphony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._9_%28Beethoven%29) (also in D minor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_minor)). The problem was that the Te Deum is in C Major, while the 9th Symphony is D Minor, and, although Bruckner began sketching a transition from the Adagio key of E Major to the triumphant key of C Major, he did not pursue the idea. There have been several attempts to complete these sketches and prepare them for performance, as well as completions of his later sketches for an instrumental Finale, but only the first three movements of the Symphony are usually performed. "

Annasmom: How well known is this composer and would Waters have been familiar with his work on his own, or was this something that was more in line with Brody's input?
I don't think Brody knew squat about music. George Waters has several references to classical pieces in which he was interested...maybe he heard them on the radio. Bruckner is well known among classical music listeners, but I don't know whether the biographical details would have any significance in the GW saga...Fascinating, though.

[Dr. Doogie]

Annasmom: Was the red outline around the "Final Solution" put there by Waters or did you (or someone else) outline it to highlight it?

I find it stunning that anyone would use the phrase "Final Solution" with all of its connetation to the Holocaust. Add in the fascination with the suicide of Rommel and this gets really creepy.

[Annasmom]

Annasmom: Was the red outline around the "Final Solution" put there by Waters or did you (or someone else) outline it to highlight it?

I find it stunning that anyone would use the phrase "Final Solution" with all of its connetation to the Holocaust. Add in the fascination with the suicide of Rommel and this gets really creepy.
The red outline was George's. I have not added anything. The only pages we didn't include in the posts were those of a letter GW was drafting to tell GB how much he admired him. Note that the reference to Bruckner isn't in the red box, and the words "to God" (not within the red box) seem to refer to Bruckner's dedication which you mentioned. I don't know if they had any sound equipment in the hotel room. The thought came to me that GW might have been planning the scene of his own demise, background music included. The music listed on that page seems to go from the somewhat sublime to the fairly ridiculous (Fannie Brice?), as if the two Georges had been discussing music.

[Annasmom]

My take on theses pages give me a bad feeling.

First, all the planning and research...down to autopsies and special PO Box makes me think that possibly there was some illegal activity going on. For GB to benefit from this, GW would have to die. If GW where to die, then these accident policies would be Brody's "Final payment". GW was young, and had a good career...he was better off alive for Brody's needs. (following me here?)

I just have to wonder if all these policies where actually for Waters. Could some be for fictitious individuals, (tomb stone names). Brody seemed to be the POD for these policies, but was Waters actually the only insured? Was he planning on a fatal "accident" (at this time). Or could, (with Brody's instruction of course) be finding homeless people, terminal patients, and at risk individuals, (druggies/alcoholics) etc. and setting up policies for them?

I just can't see all these policies for Waters. Waters was Brody's gravy train, and he needed him ALIVE to continue to support him for the long road. I have the policies themselves. They are all accident insurance policies on GW with GB as the sole beneficiary. I expect GB had predicted GW's death, and GW wanted to make sure GB was provided for in this instance. He wanted Brody's approval, and this was one way of showing he believed in Brody's "gift" of prophesy, as well as making gifts of his own.

[Annasmom]

I have a pretty good knowledge of the Bible, but after searching several books and passages, I have yet to determine which book, chapter, verse(s) he is interpreting. Any Theologians out there have a clue? I think these are two separate things. The second is the Gospel According to Brody.

[Annasmom]

Can anyone make out what is in parenthesis on the same line as
tk pict/Margaret in the Final solution. It is not included in red box, but it is on the same line. It seems to say (to Geo). as in take the picture of Margaret to George Brody...
It says "To God" and refers to the dedication of the Symphony.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I have the policies themselves. They are all accident insurance policies on GW with GB as the sole beneficiary. I expect GB had predicted GW's death, and GW wanted to make sure GB was provided for in this instance. He wanted Brody's approval, and this was one way of showing he believed in Brody's "gift" of prophesy, as well as making gifts of his own.

So you don't really think that Brody expected Waters to die...(as in stage a suicide to look like an accident) but all this to just prove his devotion? I guess anything is possible, but then why all the planning, phone calls, trips to the library, and research. Why not just one big old life insurance policy with Brody as the only beneficiary. This seems terribly complicated and time consuming.

I also wonder what SS# Brody planned to file all this inheritance tax under...???:confused: You had said there was one large Lloyd's policy, that one wouldn't go unnoticed by the IRS.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I think these are two separate things. The second is the Gospel According to Brody. LOL...you know I thought that, but was hoping it was a real Bible story, that might have had a good ending...like the Story of Joesph and his coat of many colors! :D

[natasha-cupcake]

"Given permission to take M's picture on vacation."

This one has always bothered me - I believe M to be Annasmom, but it could be Margaret (Kukoda). Very weird either way.

At the end of the red outlined box "Final solution" is written "TK pict./ Margaret" in this entry:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=329&d=1190390475


I'm thinking this means "Take picture of Margaret". I'm also thinking it's the same picture referred to in the phrase-- "Given permission to take M's picture on vacation". I'm guessing this means Margaret's picture, not Michaele's picture. I doubt they're obsessing over two different pictures. Very curious that this picture of Margaret has such significance to the two Georges. Sounds as if they had a fixation on Margaret. If they also considered Anna some sort of "reincarnation" of Margaret, then it points very definitely to the possibility of their involvement in Anna's disappearance.

[smile22]

can we contact loyds of london are they still around? do they have info that far back. i think they wanted a picture of mk so they could send it off with whoever took anna this is your real mom sorta thing was it a picture of her when she was old or when she was young?

[Annasmom]

can we contact loyds of london are they still around? do they have info that far back. i think they wanted a picture of mk so they could send it off with whoever took anna this is your real mom sorta thing was it a picture of her when she was old or when she was young?
We haven't seen the picture, so we don't know what it was like. The Lloyd's of London policy was cancelled (see SherlockJr's post above) and it is unlikely that they would reveal anything about it this much later...also they'd probably invoke privacy policies if they still had anything. You always ask good questions, though, Smile.

[Dr. Doogie]

Does L L = Lloyd's of London? I know it was mentioned earlier that the "L" on the "Plan" could refer to Lloyd's of London where GW had a policy. Now on pg 6 we have "Tentative Plan" [some symbol] and then "L / L". On pg 9 we have [symbol] "L L as to how B identifies B conclusively." and "reread pol. re procedure for notifying L L of D." [I think D is for death because the line above that mentions a D. Cert.]

Sorry, Gina, we kinda zoomed right past your questions and observations. The answer to all of them seem to be yes.

[Gina_M]

i think they wanted a picture of mk so they could send it off with whoever took anna this is your real mom sorta thing was it a picture of her when she was old or when she was young?

That makes sense to me that they would try to pass off Anna as Margaret's daughter. Margaret was deceased, and they could say that they obtained custody of Anna upon Margaret's demise, but could no longer care for Anna themselves, so they put her up for adoption. They may have had to fake some documents to pull that off, but it doesn't seem too far fetched for the 2 Georges.

[Dr. Doogie]

That does make sense, but remember that we have looked at the possibility that Anna was given "back" to the Kukodas to be raised. In this scenario, they would have been innocent victims also since they would have honestly believed that Anna was Margaret's daughter. The fact that the family was told by someone (Brody? The mysterious "Russell"?) that Margaret had died in an auto accident when in fact she died from cancer may have been part of the ruse - if she were known to have been in a coma or otherwise incapacitated for her last few months of life, then she would not have been able to carry a child to term during this period.

BUT...there are no Kukoda women who fit the age of Anna that cannot be accounted for in available information on the internet. However, this "daughter of Margaret" scenario could also have played out with the eventual receipients of Anna not being a Kukoda. It could have been that the Margaret angle was a good cover story for a third party who needed an explaination of where this little girl came from.

[laini]

In the final solution it sounds like Waters is going to LEAVE brody somewhere with food, parephenalia, etc... (maybe at their apt or maybe at some other location), and then Waters is going somewhere without brody and is to TAKE the photo. (just thinking out loud- I'm sure you have all figured that out LOL). Wonder where he was going without Brody.

Was the entire planner thought to be written several years before Anna disappeared? Or part of it closer to her disappearance?

Sherlock and Annasmom - thanks for posting these pages.

[Annasmom]

In the final solution it sounds like Waters is going to LEAVE brody somewhere with food, parephenalia, etc... (maybe at their apt or maybe at some other location), and then Waters is going somewhere without brody and is to TAKE the photo. (just thinking out loud- I'm sure you have all figured that out LOL). Wonder where he was going without Brody.

Was the entire planner thought to be written several years before Anna disappeared? Or part of it closer to her disappearance?

Sherlock and Annasmom - thanks for posting these pages. The Forum's feedback is really helpful. Obviously, this notebook was something George used a lot for all sorts of memos. Most of the dates in the book seem to be from 1970, so it would be two full years and a little more before Anna disappeared in January, 1973.

[laini]

The Forum's feedback is really helpful. Obviously, this notebook was something George used a lot for all sorts of memos. Most of the dates in the book seem to be from 1970, so it would be two full years and a little more before Anna disappeared in January, 1973.


Thanks!

Here's a weird thought - do you think they attempted to kidnap Anna when she was younger, or planned it but never went through with it in 1970-71? It certainly sounds like brody was trying to keep GW from backing out of something big.

[smile22]

well what if loyds of london was contacted by le? they would have to give out any info they would have. the two Georges are no longer alive. also if she was taken into italy wouldnt she have stood out among others? i am a quarter italian and we all have dark hair/features. where as anna has blondish hair unless they had her hair died to match the family's hair color.

[Gina_M]

well what if loyds of london was contacted by le? they would have to give out any info they would have. the two Georges are no longer alive. also if she was taken into italy wouldnt she have stood out among others? i am a quarter italian and we all have dark hair/features. where as anna has blondish hair unless they had her hair died to match the family's hair color.

My dad is 100% Italian and has blonde hair and blue eyes. Some regions of Italy have lighter-colored people. Somehow the stereotype has become the dark hair/dark eyes but we're not all like that! :)

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

In the final solution it sounds like Waters is going to LEAVE brody somewhere with food, parephenalia, etc... (maybe at their apt or maybe at some other location), and then Waters is going somewhere without brody and is to TAKE the photo. (just thinking out loud- I'm sure you have all figured that out LOL). Wonder where he was going without Brody.

Was the entire planner thought to be written several years before Anna disappeared? Or part of it closer to her disappearance?

Sherlock and Annasmom - thanks for posting these pages.

Here's a weird thought - do you think they attempted to kidnap Anna when she was younger, or planned it but never went through with it in 1970-71? It certainly sounds like brody was trying to keep GW from backing out of something big.


Laini, I think your thoughts are very reasonable theories of what might have went down. After reading over the Bible/Monologue page about 100 times, I think that might have been GW trying to talk himself into actually doing what Brody suggested.

After seeing the Picture of baby Anna on her fathers lap, I have had a strong feeling this was planned for years. Something like this just doesn't happen over night. It was a very well thought out plan that took years to orchestrate. If it would have been a spur of the moment kidnapping, Anna would have been found a few days or weeks after her abduction.

[Annasmom]

Laini, I think your thoughts are very reasonable theories of what might have went down. After reading over the Bible/Monologue page about 100 times, I think that might have been GW trying to talk himself into actually doing what Brody suggested.

After seeing the Picture of baby Anna on her fathers lap, I have had a strong feeling this was planned for years. Something like this just doesn't happen over night. It was a very well thought out plan that took years to orchestrate. If it would have been a spur of the moment kidnapping, Anna would have been found a few days or weeks after her abduction. It may also be worth noting that for quite some time in 1971-72 we were on the road on our big bus trip, having our mail forwarded to my mother's, so they couldn't have acted on any abduction plan at that time, not knowing where we were.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

It may also be worth noting that for quite some time in 1971-72 we were on the road on our big bus trip, having our mail forwarded to my mother's, so they couldn't have acted on any abduction plan at that time, not knowing where we were.


Did Waters have an itinerary of your trip? I know times have really changed over the last 35 years, so I don't know what kind arrangements you would have had to make to take Anna on such a long trip back then. Though within the last 10 years things have gotten pretty strict regarding travel. My sister can't take her daughters anywhere without their fathers permission, (joint custody) He really doesn't want anything to do with the girls, he just wants to make my sisters life miserable...:angel:

Anyway, the note of Waters that says take pic of M on vacation, I have thought maybe it ment to take a picture of you while you where on your vacation. Of course all of this is a moot point if Waters had absolutely no idea where you where going, when you where leaving or how long you would be gone.

[Annasmom]

Did Waters have an itinerary of your trip? I know times have really changed over the last 35 years, so I don't know what kind arrangements you would have had to make to take Anna on such a long trip. Though within the last 10 years things have gotten pretty strict regarding travel. My sister can't take her daughters anywhere without their fathers permission, (joint custody) He really doesn't want anything to do with the girls, he just wants to make my sisters life miserable...:angel:

Anyway, the note of Waters that says take pic of M on vacation, I have thought maybe it ment to take a picture of you while you where on your vacation. Of course all of this is a moot point if Waters had absolutely no idea where you where going, when you where leaving or how long you would be gone.
He had no connection with the family other than the monthly support checks, which while we were traveling were sent to my mother's address. Although he had insisted on joint custody, he had not visited his daughter since early 1968. The possible significance of the dates is that no abduction could have been planned when he didn't know where we were, but once we had an address within an hour or so of where he lived (November, 1971), the plan--if any--could have gone forward. I still am not saying that he did it, only that the dates might have been significant.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I find Sherlocks post #136 strange. On image squibb 26 (Tuesday 26) There is a mention of DAMRON. There is also the word passport next to it with other words I cannot make out. If you Google DAMRON there is a very popular travel guide listed. The company, (guide turned travel agency) was founded in 1964.
http://www.damron.com/about_us/our_history.html

If the above travel guide is what GW is referring to, this would explain many courious things, I suppose it also opens a new can of worms...Though it could be just another test Brody was pushing him into.

[dellemma]

I find Sherlocks post #136 strange. On image squibb 26 (Tuesday 26) There is a mention of DAMRON. There is also the word passport next to it with other words I cannot make out. If you Google DAMRON there is a very popular travel agency listed. It was founded in 1964.
http://www.damron.com/about_us/our_history.html

If the above travel agency is what GW is referring to, this would explain many things, it also opens a new can of worms...Though it could be another test Brody was pushing him into.

I had the exact same thought as I googled Damron and passport. I wasn't sure what to write here so I PM'd the info and links to Dr. Doogie this morning.