Man, two daughters found dead in home

[Dark Knight]

Associated Press - June 22, 2007 6:43 AM ET

MONTCLAIR, N.J. (AP) - A New Jersey man and his two young daughters have been found dead inside the man's home.

Police in Montclair say the bodies were found a few hours after the girls' mother had dropped them off for a visit yesterday.

The girls were five and six. Their bodies were fully clothed and submerged in a bathtub.

The 46-year-old man was found hanged in another room.

http://www.wane.com/global/story.asp?s=6695372 (http://www.wane.com/global/story.asp?s=6695372)

[poco]

Associated Press - June 22, 2007 6:43 AM ET

MONTCLAIR, N.J. (AP) - A New Jersey man and his two young daughters have been found dead inside the man's home.

Police in Montclair say the bodies were found a few hours after the girls' mother had dropped them off for a visit yesterday.

The girls were five and six. Their bodies were fully clothed and submerged in a bathtub.

The 46-year-old man was found hanged in another room.

http://www.wane.com/global/story.asp?s=6695372 (http://www.wane.com/global/story.asp?s=6695372)

Sounds like murder/suicide - what an ass hole if that's the case.

[CyberLaw]

I put money on "his goal" was to "inflect terrible emotional suffering" on his wife. Or he did not get full custody. Or she is to blame for the Divorce. Or revenge against his ex wife. I could not imagine the terrible pain of dropping off your two precious daughters to their fathers house for a visit and then finding out he killed them.

[SadieMae]

I just can never, never, ever understand this. How could he bear holding them under water? I'm sure they struggled. What an evil mind!!! My prayers for the mother.

[Dena]

What is with all these murder/suicides lately?? Fathers killing their children? How can you kill your children, especially in such a way like drowning that inflicts so much pain and fear?

[j2mirish]

I will never, ever, ever be able to comprehend.......why oh why oh why the children :mad: take yourself out, if that is where "you" are.....but not the babies

[Nocgirl]

Something needs to be done in the family court system to prevent these ugly, nasty custody battles. The kids always lose in the end. I am so sick of parents acting like a-holes when they go through a divorce. I am sick of the custody battles. The child support guidelines in some states are totally not fair to the non custodial parent.

So many people have bitterness and anger towards their ex spouse they do not put their kids needs first.

Personally, I wish more family court judges would just grant joint custody with as much parenting time as possible for each parent. Child support is determined based on both incomes with a parenting time credit. If someone was good enough to marry and good enough to have kids with (unless they are a hard core criminal or child molester of course) both parents should have access to the kids and have a role in decision making.

This guy probably killed the kids to get back at mom, which is just appaling.

[sherri79]

Something needs to be done in the family court system to prevent these ugly, nasty custody battles. The kids always lose in the end. I am so sick of parents acting like a-holes when they go through a divorce. I am sick of the custody battles. The child support guidelines in some states are totally not fair to the non custodial parent.

So many people have bitterness and anger towards their ex spouse they do not put their kids needs first.

Personally, I wish more family court judges would just grant joint custody with as much parenting time as possible for each parent. Child support is determined based on both incomes with a parenting time credit. If someone was good enough to marry and good enough to have kids with (unless they are a hard core criminal or child molester of course) both parents should have access to the kids and have a role in decision making.

This guy probably killed the kids to get back at mom, which is just appaling. a judge saw this father as safe to be alone with his kids. now look at what has happened. i wish parents in a bitter custody case had to get therapy and testing to see if they are a danger to their kids. not just the danger of killing them but of destroying their childhood by hate for their ex.

[miimaa]

I heard of a divorced couple with joint custody. The amazing thing is the kids stayed in the same house and the parents took turns staying there a week at a time each. They had to be uprooted - not the kids. Pretty nice solution I think.

[Nocgirl]

In a divorce there is often alot of mud-slinging and lies being told anyways. You have no idea who is telling the truth.

If people would not have kids with mentally ill people, that would take care of alot of these problems.

The mental health advocates always push for equal rights for mentally ill people, yet these are generally the people that kill their kids.

[lymom3]

In a divorce there is often alot of mud-slinging and lies being told anyways. You have no idea who is telling the truth.

If people would not have kids with mentally ill people, that would take care of alot of these problems.

The mental health advocates always push for equal rights for mentally ill people, yet these are generally the people that kill their kids.

The stress of the divorce and the events leading up to a divorce can cause mental health problems in people who didn't have them before. Serious, major depression can be crushing. They may not be bi polar or psychotic or have some other lifelong mental health affliction but the pain, sadness and overwhelming anger and hopelessness that can overtake you when you hit a life crisis is nothing to be ignored. Too bad mental health care is not more accessible. By that I mean cost and availability of counselors outside of "office" hours. Health insurance usually does a poor job of covering mental health making hard for people that already have a financial burden such as divorce to be able to afford to access help.

[comfort80]

maybe people need to have permits to be able to have kids.
---before anyone shoots me, yes i am a mother, i have two kids, my first, my daughter is 13, i was 18 when i had her, i lived w/my parents (because i was skill-less, and could only manage a entry level position making minimum wage) and was not allowed to discipline her, and was disciplined myself in front of her. my parents robbed me of my parental respect. I managed to get a decent self supporting job when she was 3, but she was well past her formative years, and no matter what i have done, counseling, behavior modification (mine as well as hers), etc, she still is irresponsible, disrespectful, and angry. -- on that note--
i was not in any way prepared to be a mother at that time, and my child, (and how many other people once she's let loose on the real world), will have to suffer for it.--
I think it should be mandatory, for at least first time parents to take a parenting course

[CyberLaw]

A friend decided to get a Divorce after 13 years and 3 kids. She wanted a "peaceful" divorce and allowing him as much time with the kids as possible. No spousal support, just child support.

Well to make a long story short. How dare she divorce him. He declared war and was determined to make it as hard and painful for her as possible. To get back at her. He wanted to take the kids away from her because it would "literally" crush her. She was stay at home Mom, he worked as much as possible to avoid the kids. Heck he went away for three days and the kids only knew he went away because he returned from his trip and got home at 5:00. He fully expected her to put him before the kids and when she did not, he wanted to take them from her. Because of his actions, he had to have supervised visits for 6 months. Only because he has a new wife, does he now spend time with the kids unsupervised, but again to "impress" his new wife of how good of a Dad he is.

Again the Mom wanted a "amicable" divorce, he waged war. It is not lost upon me how a person can appear to be something they are not, all the while planning a very horrible situation.

Again, you never knew what goes on in a person mind, what they think what they plan to do. What they will do.

A "good" father had his four sons for a visit. He phoned his wife and allowed her to "hear each child die". The kids often end up as a means to an end. The man killed his four sons, to "teach" his wife a lesson and to ensure that she will suffer all her life.

[SeriouslySearching]

I heard of a divorced couple with joint custody. The amazing thing is the kids stayed in the same house and the parents took turns staying there a week at a time each. They had to be uprooted - not the kids. Pretty nice solution I think.

I did this with my first child and it did work out very well. She wasn't as confused with our divorce this way and it allowed her to feel more stable. IMO

I always had joint custody, but I was the primary custodial parent. We raised the kids together (including his new wife...who I took to PTA meetings and such with me...I introduced her as the kids' "other mom" which floored the teachers. LOL), but we ALL worked together to make the right decisions for the best interest of our kids, too.

We left any animosity from the divorce OUT of our relationship for the children. We simply 'pretended' to be friends and eventually...we remembered why we got together in the first place and learned to be friends again. It CAN be done!

They are now grown, well-adjusted adults. Proof is in the pudding.

What a tragic story this is. If only people would grow up and realize how truly selfish they are to do cowardly acts to hurt others. It is such a shame. <sigh>

[fran]

In the end, IMHO, it's about control. Once they realize they cannot regain control, they at least have to have the LAST WORD.

JMHO
fran

[SadieMae]

In the end, IMHO, it's about control. Once they realize they cannot regain control, they at least have to have the LAST WORD.

JMHO
fran
That was well said!!! It's exactly what it's about...control.

[CyberLaw]

Killing someone is the ultimate form of control after all you do play God.

You decide if they live or die, and in this case the man killed his own flesh and blood to seek revenge and control, power.

[SewingDeb]

Something needs to be done in the family court system to prevent these ugly, nasty custody battles. The kids always lose in the end. I am so sick of parents acting like a-holes when they go through a divorce. I am sick of the custody battles. The child support guidelines in some states are totally not fair to the non custodial parent.

So many people have bitterness and anger towards their ex spouse they do not put their kids needs first.

Personally, I wish more family court judges would just grant joint custody with as much parenting time as possible for each parent. Child support is determined based on both incomes with a parenting time credit. If someone was good enough to marry and good enough to have kids with (unless they are a hard core criminal or child molester of course) both parents should have access to the kids and have a role in decision making.

This guy probably killed the kids to get back at mom, which is just appaling.

To prevent these ugly, nasty custody battles, something should be done about attorneys who pit their clients against each other every time they are about to reach an agreement. Speaking from experience...it seems the attornies on both sides draw it out as long as possible just for more money.

[SewingDeb]

The stress of the divorce and the events leading up to a divorce can cause mental health problems in people who didn't have them before. Serious, major depression can be crushing. They may not be bi polar or psychotic or have some other lifelong mental health affliction but the pain, sadness and overwhelming anger and hopelessness that can overtake you when you hit a life crisis is nothing to be ignored. Too bad mental health care is not more accessible. By that I mean cost and availability of counselors outside of "office" hours. Health insurance usually does a poor job of covering mental health making hard for people that already have a financial burden such as divorce to be able to afford to access help.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Excellent post. If one has not gone through one of these long, drawn out divorces and custody battles, it is hard to imagine the emotional toll it can take on a person. It's not always both parents battling either. Sometimes one is willing to work out custody etc. and the other one makes it a huge battle. Usually whichever one is the controlling personality. It's like they are playing a game to see how much they can hurt the ex.

[SewingDeb]

a judge saw this father as safe to be alone with his kids. now look at what has happened. i wish parents in a bitter custody case had to get therapy and testing to see if they are a danger to their kids. not just the danger of killing them but of destroying their childhood by hate for their ex.

Excellent idea. The main problem with psychological testing is the tester usually favors the one paying the bill. If both parents can afford to pay half, it might be a fair analysis.

[Nocgirl]

Sewing Deb, good point. There are alot of sleezy attorney's out there and unfortunately there are some in family law. I absolutely hate it when someone with kids, brags about "they are hiring a shark of an attorney". What that means is that they hope their spouse gets screwed and wants to make sure they pay the max in support and see their kids as little as possible. This sucks for everyone involved.

All courts should require a couple to do mediation first. If they cannot agree and one parent's attorney insists on a trial and refuses to act reasonable, they should foot the opposing party's legal bills too.

My husband is divorced and him and his ex wife did mediation and have tried to remain civil. Some fires have erupted and her parents blame my husband for the divorce, even though she cheated and he had proof (this is the same guy that just went to prison for 10 years for having sex with my husbands daughter. Mom married this idiot before she knew anything was going on..long story)

So Mom is an idiot, cheats on husband with a man who later becomes a pedophile, and her parents blew my husband off after the divorce. They now are realising what a good Dad my husband is and maybe he is not such a schmuck after all.

If people would not have kids with idiots, this would solve many problems.

[Sedona]

So Mom is an idiot, cheats on husband with a man who later becomes a pedophile, and her parents blew my husband off after the divorce. They now are realising what a good Dad my husband is and maybe he is not such a schmuck after all.

If people would not have kids with idiots, this would solve many problems.


I am convinced more and more that you really just don't know people.

As for this case, another example of how far bitterness and anger will destroy.

[crypto6]

The stress of the divorce and the events leading up to a divorce can cause mental health problems in people who didn't have them before. Serious, major depression can be crushing. They may not be bi polar or psychotic or have some other lifelong mental health affliction but the pain, sadness and overwhelming anger and hopelessness that can overtake you when you hit a life crisis is nothing to be ignored. Too bad mental health care is not more accessible. By that I mean cost and availability of counselors outside of "office" hours. Health insurance usually does a poor job of covering mental health making hard for people that already have a financial burden such as divorce to be able to afford to access help.

Right on the money. Starting in the late 70s, insurance companies realized they could cut costs by simply ignoring mental dysfunction, which is just as real and damaging as high blood pressure, an arthritic knee, or a tumor. Because of the stigma and loss of function associated with mental illness, those affected would not or could not fight back. This is a very real and very large problem and reveals the mercenary side of most insurance plans, especially the HMOs which have no interest in the health of their insured; the only health they are interested in is that of their own finances.

Crypto6

[MeoW333]

I agree with what Sedona said:
"another example of how far bitterness and anger will destroy"
Probably everything was all right until this couple divorce; the husband was eaten up by resentment. Was still in love with the wife, and thought this would be the ultimate lesson for her. He was probably able to kill his children knowing that it would just make it easier for him to kill himself. I wonder if the exwife noticed any warning signs from him prior..

[southcitymom]

....I think it should be mandatory, for at least first time parents to take a parenting course

I'm having my doubts that a course would have helped this man very much......