OSBI Needs Help to Identify Woman Found In Photo

[SeriouslySearching]

The more I study the unretouched photo, the more I am convinced it is Tara Calico.

People have mentioned we didn't pluck our eyebrows thin back in the 80s/early 90s...but she was from NM and here in OK...we are a bit behind in the fashion scene (or I should say...used to be.) What was going on nationally didn't neccessarily reflect what our culture was doing...so plucked thin eyebrows were more the rule than the exception here about that time worn with a white eyeshadow in a thin line underneath. OR maybe the perp had a thing for the thin eyebrow look. He kept her alive for a period of time and could dictate she change her appearance somewhat during that time. (Tara's captor also allowed her other "luxuries" such as the book of her fav author which no doubt was used to help identify her in the earlier photo with the boy and his purpose for allowing her to have it.)

Tara Calico was allowed to keep up her appearance. (She was allowed to be out on a beach in Florida, as I recall.) I think the attached ear is shown on purpose for identifying her as is the "cowlick" and the reason she was 'posed' in this way. The hair might look like it has been "chunked", but it looks more like natural highlights to me not to mention it could also be bloodsoaked making it look darker in areas.

I believe the mattress was in a travel trailer and that is comforter with a floral pattern...probably with large, hot pink flowers and the two-toned green leaves...again...popular in the late 80s/90s.

The more I see other photos of other missing women, the more I am drawn back to Tara. Her mother's death could be the reason this person left the photo in a remote location...it was his MO all along to keep torturing her mother and father/LE by taking and dropping such photos through the years. His sick "game" could have ended with her death. The perp always left them to be found in the least likely place for him to be seen...old gas stations, a residential construction site, etc. I would say he did this in the middle of the night when the places were empty and no one would see him leave them. (There are many gas stations like this that dot the countryside in NM and in OK still to this day. They have been in business forever and they simply don't make enough money to update or have a need for cameras as robberies in our small communities are quite rare.)

Gut feeling tells me it is Tara Calico and this photo was to prove that on his part. (I bet this ends up being a polaroid like his others.) He WANTS people to know it was her because it has been his way of "bragging" that he was still out there and could taunt the family and LE. I think when they find the perp...he will still have other photos which will progress and match up to the photos he left. They are his "trophies".

[Reannan]

I totally agree that the picture looks an awful lot like Tara Calico, only the lady in the picture is older. I hate to think he kept her for years, but we know from other cases, that those sort of horrors happen. You would think, that LE would have additional pictures of Tara that they could use to look at the moles, and other identifying characteristics we have discussed. Evidence that points to it being Tara includes the fact that she is dressed in a blue robe/pajama top that is the same color as the shirt in one of the more famous pictures of Tara. In fact, it is the picture of Tara with her hand under her chin.....posed sort of like the picture we are now discussing, only the hand is posed slightly differently. I think the unknown picture is posed, and I think it was left intentionally.

[jacobean]

Hello! First i just want to say thankyou for welcoming me and that - very cool people.

I just cant get this girl out of my mind! Re the eyebrows - it was the first thing that struck me, and the more i look at her skin tone, Kgeux & niteowl - i think you're right, middle eastern - and i think it could explain the clothes as well..

Kgeux: the lower left section you mentioned, i never noticed it before - so i went back and had a closer look and im really sorry to say it - gross- but my first thought was intestines (so sorry)

[kwatson696]

http://www.city-data.com/city/Purcell-Oklahoma.html


This is interesting to read, According to our research there were 11 registered sex offenders living in Purcell, Oklahoma (http://www.city-data.com/so/so-Purcell-Oklahoma.html) in early 2007.
The ratio of number of residents in Purcell to the number of sex offenders is 531 to 1.
:eek:

[lizzybeth]

Hello! First i just want to say thankyou for welcoming me and that - very cool people.

I just cant get this girl out of my mind! Re the eyebrows - it was the first thing that struck me, and the more i look at her skin tone, Kgeux & niteowl - i think you're right, middle eastern - and i think it could explain the clothes as well..

Kgeux: the lower left section you mentioned, i never noticed it before - so i went back and had a closer look and im really sorry to say it - gross- but my first thought was intestines (so sorry)

I thought that too but with it looking like the injury is to the head I was thinking more along the lines of brains. Brains do have sections that might look like intestines (or at least they do to me). I wonder if there was another injury to the lower half of her body that isn't shown in the picture?

I'm supposed to be working but I find myself checking this thread often. I hope they're able to find out who this girl is soon. She deserves to have a name; to have her loved ones know and to have the person that did this to her punished.

[laini]

From the first time I looked at this photo, the item she is lying on reminded me of a 'strawberry shortcake' sleeping bag my daughter had as a young child (she is now 29 yo!) . . . just a thought. In the lower left corner of the 'un-retouched' photo it even looks like it could possibly be a strawberry on the blanket/sleeping bag...what do you think??

I thought so, too! I looked through all the old and new strawberry shortcake bedding and sleeping bags I could find online. I haven't found any that match. The only thing that matches is the colors and that there is a green leaf.

[Chica]

The more I study the unretouched photo, the more I am convinced it is Tara Calico.

I agree it looks like it could very easily be Tara Calico, with the exception of the eyebrows.

Here is a link to the first photo found that is believed to be Tara and Michael Henley.

http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200301684W

Both Tara and Michael's mothers believe it is their respective child in the photo. When I compare the features of the girl in the first photo found with the features of the girl in the most recent photo found, they look like they could very easily be the same girl, save for the eyebrows, which could easily have been reshaped.

[Chica]

I thought so, too! I looked through all the old and new strawberry shortcake bedding and sleeping bags I could find online. I haven't found any that match. The only thing that matches is the colors and that there is a green leaf.

I've been searching all morning for vintage strawberry shortcake sleeping bags, etc., and I can't find any that match. When I first looked at the pillow or blanket or whatever it is she is lying on, it immediately triggered the memory of my daughter's strawberry sleeping bag, and every time I take another look at it, the same image jumps into my head. I'll keep looking.

[kgeaux]

Hello! First i just want to say thankyou for welcoming me and that - very cool people.

I just cant get this girl out of my mind! Re the eyebrows - it was the first thing that struck me, and the more i look at her skin tone, Kgeux & niteowl - i think you're right, middle eastern - and i think it could explain the clothes as well..

Kgeux: the lower left section you mentioned, i never noticed it before - so i went back and had a closer look and im really sorry to say it - gross- but my first thought was intestines (so sorry)

That's what I thought, too. But so close to her head, I couldn't imagine how any internal organ from the abdomen would end up there, especially since her robe seems to be intact. But it looks more like intestines than brains, to me.

I thought so, too! I looked through all the old and new strawberry shortcake bedding and sleeping bags I could find online. I haven't found any that match. The only thing that matches is the colors and that there is a green leaf.

All the strawberry shortcake stuff I can find are in more pastel brights, rather than "neon" brights. I have had no luck at all finding anything in the colors on the mattress/cover/sleeping bag, etc. It seems to be nylon, very shiny, in good condition, so if it's from the 70's or 80's the picture must have been taken back then, because I don't see any wear and tear on whatever it is.

Now, the robe: I have found a robe that doesn't match exactly, but is similar. I don't know how to get the picture from "my pictures" to a post on websleuths.....if anyone can help me, I'd appreciate it.

[lizzybeth]

Like a few other people have said she could have had them tweezed or threaded. I didn't know a lot about the Tara Calico case but after reading today it seems she had been seen in the company of several adult men. She could have very well tweezed/threaded between the time the first photo was taken and the last one.

http://www.childseeknetwork.com/pics.php?type=photo2&id=117

She looks a lot like the unidentified girl in this black and white photo.

[KatK]

kgeaux: Host the image at ImageShack (link in my signature) then copy the link by the "direct link" lable, and using the "insert image" option (it's on the same line as the "insert link" option, it's yellow, and has mountains and a sun on it) insert the link (make sure not to get an extra http in there) into the pop up box. That will post an image here.

[KatK]

Like a few other people have said she could have had them tweezed or threaded. I didn't know a lot about the Tara Calico case but after reading today it seems she had been seen in the company of several adult men. She could have very well tweezed/threaded between the time the first photo was taken and the last one.

http://www.childseeknetwork.com/pics.php?type=photo2&id=117

She looks a lot like the unidentified girl in this black and white photo.

The nose is way too short on that image. It isn't her.

[trixie]

The nose is way too short on that image. It isn't her.

Wow I thought I was the only one who didn't see any resemblence. I didn't see it before and I still don't see it. IMO this photo looks nothing like Tara Calico. I think law enforcement has probably already checked this against KNOWN missing persons and didn't find a match so that's why they are turning to the public to help ID this poor girl. We tend to forget the police have vast resources to check on things like this. IMO they've already done thier thing and came up empty so they are as stumped as we are. It's not Tara, IMO.

[lizzybeth]

I guess I need to get my glasses changed.

Sorry.

[trixie]

I guess I need to get my glasses changed.

Sorry.

We all have our own opinion and that's just mine. Please feel free to disagree with me. I think we are all here for the same reason, to try and help someone. Peace.

[SeriouslySearching]

The nose is way too short on that image. It isn't her.
If you will look back at post #3 which compares photos...you will certainly see the nose is NOT too short. It is the same length with the same characteristics as Tara's. I have to run for now, but when I come back I will try to show you.

[KatK]

If you will look back at post #3 which compares photos...you will certainly see the nose is NOT too short. It is the same length with the same characteristics as Tara's. I have to run for now, but when I come back I will try to show you.

Er, you do realize that the photo linked is of an unidentified woman *NOT* Tara Calico, right? The nose in the image linked in the post I quoted is WRONG. I don't think it looks much like Tara Calico either. Nor do I think the subject of the photo this topic is about resembles her very well.

ETA: Though the black and white image does look like Tara Calico, I don't think either the black and white image, or the other images of Tara Calico look like the subject of the photo this topic was started about. The tip of the nose is very different, the nose is longer. That nose is shorter. The nose in the black and white image especially is *TOO* short!

[lizzybeth]

Maybe you guys are right. I don't see a cleft in Tara's chin in that photo either.

I think once you start comparing all these pictures you start thinking you see similarities in everyone.

[kgeaux]

kgeaux: Host the image at ImageShack (link in my signature) then copy the link by the "direct link" lable, and using the "insert image" option (it's on the same line as the "insert link" option, it's yellow, and has mountains and a sun on it) insert the link (make sure not to get an extra http in there) into the pop up box. That will post an image here.

THANK YOU, KatK! Let's see if an old kgeaux can learn a new trick!

<a href="http://img69.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beautifullyembroideredaez0.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/9034/beautifullyembroideredaez0.th.jpg" border="0" alt="Free Image Hosting at www.ImageShack.us" /></a>

This is a silk velvet Middle Eastern robe. I just wanted to see if ya'll see any similarities in the swirls in the designs, the material, the way the pattern repeats on the arm, etc.

I don't know why I'm feeling she could be middle eastern, but it's something I'm "exploring" today.

EDIT: Crud. I guess you can't teach an old kgeaux a new trick. I'll have to try again!


http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beautifullyembroideredaud3.jpg

[lizzybeth]

Er, you do realize that the photo linked is of an unidentified woman *NOT* Tara Calico, right? The nose in the image linked in the post I quoted is WRONG. I don't think it looks much like Tara Calico either. Nor do I think the subject of the photo this topic is about resembles her very well.

ETA: Though the black and white image does look like Tara Calico, I don't think either the black and white image, or the other images of Tara Calico look like the subject of the photo this topic was started about. The tip of the nose is very different, the nose is longer. That nose is shorter. The nose in the black and white image especially is *TOO* short!

KatK are you talking about the photo that I linked? I know that one came off the childseek website and as far as I know was a pic of Tara Calico.

[KatK]

No, not the message board link, the "direct link" link. ;) You can rehost it if you need to. (S'ok, it varies with sites what link will work.)

[NewMom2003]

Here is a larger picture of Tara Calico. I see some similiarities, but I don't know. :confused:

http://www.someoneismissing.net/index.php/Tara_Calico

[KatK]

KatK are you talking about the photo that I linked? I know that one came off the childseek website and as far as I know was a pic of Tara Calico.


Go back to my post number 262, yes I was responding to your post. But you said "She looks a lot like the unidentified girl in this black and white photo." which I took to be in reference to the image this topic is trying to indentify, not Tara Calico. Ok, so the image you posted they don't know who she is, and you think she looks like Tara Calico? I agree. I don't agree that the subject in the velour robe with the red clumps in her hair looks like the black and white image, nor do I think she resembles Tara Calico. The tip of the nose, the nostrils are wrong. There are other things too, but I don't wanna bring up the un-retouched image again to be able to "verbalize" them.

[kgeaux]

trying to get the actual photo in here:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1736/beautifullyembroideredaud3.jpg


This is a silk velvet Middle Eastern robe. (Actually, I think they called it a "throbe" or something like that.)

I am interested in hearing your comments on the similarities or lack thereof in the style of the robe with the one worn by the girl in the photo.

[lizzybeth]

My mistake. That IS a picture of Tara (the black and white one). I meant to say this black and white picture looks a lot like the pic of the unidentified girl.
Or it does to me.

I guess that's what I get for trying to post while I should be working.

[kgeaux]

No, not the message board link, the "direct link" link. ;) You can rehost it if you need to. (S'ok, it varies with sites what link will work.)


Thanks, sweetie! I think I finally got it.....you just have to type s l o w and repeat yourself sometimes before it clicks with me!

Now, back on topic:

I don't think our unidentified girl looks much like Tara. I think Tara's jawline looks stronger, and Tara's nose doesn't match our girls either, IMO. Out of all the photos of "possibles" that we've linked here, Tara is probably the closest, but I don't think she is a match.

[KatK]

trying to get the actual photo in here:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1736/beautifullyembroideredaud3.jpg

Bingo!

[lizzybeth]

Wow kgeaux, that does look a lot like the robe in the picture. Where did you find it?

[kgeaux]

Here is a larger picture of Tara Calico. I see some similiarities, but I don't know. :confused:

http://www.someoneismissing.net/index.php/Tara_Calico

Tara's chin seems longer, has no cleft, and Tara's nose seems to have a slight upturn which our unidentified girl does not have. Maybe it's just me, but I think it's close but not a match.

[KatK]

Here is a larger picture of Tara Calico. I see some similiarities, but I don't know. :confused:

http://www.someoneismissing.net/index.php/Tara_Calico


The chin is wrong too. The person in the terrible photograph has a weaker chin. Tara Calico's is pointier. The lips of the person in the image are also fuller, (the top lip especially is fuller than Tara's) and Tara has got more forehead. (Look at how much space from brow up to the hairline there is on Tara, compared to the person in that photo. Tara had a higher forehead.) They aren't the same person. ETA: I just did a side by side comparison of the image we are discussing, and the image linked in the post I quoted to point these things out.

[lizzybeth]

If the unidentified girl was shot in the head (it does appear to be some type of wound on the side) and her lip looks like it may have been busted (at some point) how much of her features can we depend on? There could be some swelling.
I know that's all we have but I was thinking about the lips and how they could be swollen.

[lizzybeth]

Oh well, time to go home. I don't seem to be adding too much to this discussion anyway.

kgeaux, again, that was a great find on the robe.

[kgeaux]

Wow kgeaux, that does look a lot like the robe in the picture. Where did you find it?


On a websight which caters to Islamic women. I believe it was Al Hannah Islamic clothing......I started thinking that those eyebrows did look threaded, which made me think that jacobean could be correct, that she was of Middle Eastern decent. That led me to remember some robes my sister brought back from Abu Dhabi, and that made me do a search!

I really think the style and appearance of the embroidery is similar, and it is re-enforcing my belief that she may be of Middle Eastern decent, but I wanted to throw it out there for others to comment on, because I've been wrong before!

[KatK]

Oh well, time to go home. I don't seem to be adding too much to this discussion anyway.

kgeaux, again, that was a great find on the robe.

Bah, who says I'm not the "Watson" here? ;)

[KatK]

If the unidentified girl was shot in the head (it does appear to be some type of wound on the side) and her lip looks like it may have been busted (at some point) how much of her features can we depend on? There could be some swelling.
I know that's all we have but I was thinking about the lips and how they could be swollen.


The nose doesn't appear to be injured though, and that is a big difference in facial features.

[NewMom2003]

If the unidentified girl was shot in the head (it does appear to be some type of wound on the side) and her lip looks like it may have been busted (at some point) how much of her features can we depend on? There could be some swelling.
I know that's all we have but I was thinking about the lips and how they could be swollen.

I was thinking along those lines also. Facial features seem to be distorted in death.

[kgeaux]

If the unidentified girl was shot in the head (it does appear to be some type of wound on the side) and her lip looks like it may have been busted (at some point) how much of her features can we depend on? There could be some swelling.
I know that's all we have but I was thinking about the lips and how they could be swollen.


She does look like she was hit in the mouth, the top lip is swollen.

The "fly" on her lip, when I zoom in it looks more like a series of horizontal lines, maybe like stitches? The photo doesn't hold its resolution very well when I zoom in, so it's really hard to tell.

[NewMom2003]

She does look like she was hit in the mouth, the top lip is swollen.

The "fly" on her lip, when I zoom in it looks more like a series of horizontal lines, maybe like stitches? The photo doesn't hold its resolution very well when I zoom in, so it's really hard to tell.


When I first saw it I thought it was either stitches or a glob of dried blood. :(

ETA - If it is stitches, I think it may be home-made stitches, not done by a doctor, YKWIM?

[NewMom2003]

The top you posted kgeaux is a great find. It definitely resembles what this woman is wearing. There is just something about this photo that makes me think she's wearing a cheaper garment than that though.

[KatK]

Maybe it's an old favorite robe, or a secondhand, "hand-me-down" robe? ETA: Though it also looked more like a chain store robe to me at first too.

[jacobean]

trying to get the actual photo in here:

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/1736/beautifullyembroideredaud3.jpg


This is a silk velvet Middle Eastern robe. (Actually, I think they called it a "throbe" or something like that.)

I am interested in hearing your comments on the similarities or lack thereof in the style of the robe with the one worn by the girl in the photo.

Now we're talking :clap:

[teonspaleprincess]

Like a few other people have said she could have had them tweezed or threaded. I didn't know a lot about the Tara Calico case but after reading today it seems she had been seen in the company of several adult men. She could have very well tweezed/threaded between the time the first photo was taken and the last one.

http://www.childseeknetwork.com/pics.php?type=photo2&id=117

She looks a lot like the unidentified girl in this black and white photo.

I don't know...I think there is a real resemblance. You can see a slight cleft in the chin in that pic also. I was never convinced that the first pic they found was Tara. To me the girl in that pic looked a lot younger.

[docwho3]

I suspect the robe is a sort of distraction. According to the impressions on her skin, at the arm (as they appear when the image is enlarged and slightly edited for contrast and gamma corrections), the robe was not what she was wearing just before the pic was taken. I think the "robe" was a late addition, perhaps added for the pic.

[lizzybeth]

Okay, here I go with another stupid idea. I guess I'll just throw it out there and you guys can tear it apart. LOL.
What if this woman is IN the Middle East. Maybe this picture was taken there. That could be why someone with her description (at least as far as we know) hasn't been reported missing. Maybe a military person dropped this. The other idea was that possibly the person who had the pic was of Middle Eastern descent and that was a robe that he had (that belonged to a female friend or family member).
Okay, I'm ready.

[lizzybeth]

The top you posted kgeaux is a great find. It definitely resembles what this woman is wearing. There is just something about this photo that makes me think she's wearing a cheaper garment than that though.


Everything always has a cheaper version/knock off.

[teonspaleprincess]

Okay, here I go with another stupid idea. I guess I'll just throw it out there and you guys can tear it apart. LOL.
What if this woman is IN the Middle East. Maybe this picture was taken there. That could be why someone with her description (at least as far as we know) hasn't been reported missing. Maybe a military person dropped this. The other idea was that possibly the person who had the pic was of Middle Eastern descent and that was a robe that he had (that belonged to a female friend or family member).
Okay, I'm ready.

Lizzybeth, please don't knock your ideas. I think you have had a lot to add to this discussion and that all of your ideas have merit! it is always good to have lots of different perspectives.

[trixie]

Lizzybeth ditto on that. We are all just putting our heads together on this and nobodys idea is any better than anybody elses. I had that same thought as you about whether or not this woman was even in the country. I think the reason is because of when it first came up she looked middle eastern I thought well I know they shoot women over there pretty regularly for some pretty mundane things. Okay, I have to go now and stop my cat from eating a rubberband. Bye!

[kgeaux]

When I first saw it I thought it was either stitches or a glob of dried blood. :(

ETA - If it is stitches, I think it may be home-made stitches, not done by a doctor, YKWIM?

I know what you mean, but I'm hoping it's "real" stitches, because that is a great identifier. A young woman, plucked/threaded eyebrows, tiny mole on the chin line and center neck, who had recently gotten stitches on the upper lip, and who is now missing or deceased-----that's got to be a short list. If they were homemade, it's possible no one beside the person who killed her and she knew about them. If they are homemade, they might actually work against her identification: I can just picture someone saying she sure looks like my child, but my girl didn't have stitches! And who knows, it could be clumped blood or a fly.....the photo just doesn't have the resolution to see the detail well enough for me to determine.


The top you posted kgeaux is a great find. It definitely resembles what this woman is wearing. There is just something about this photo that makes me think she's wearing a cheaper garment than that though.

That particular thobe costs $42.99, so it's not terribly expensive. I'm not convinced that her robe absolutely is Middle Eastern, but I'm about 80% there.

Okay, here I go with another stupid idea. I guess I'll just throw it out there and you guys can tear it apart. LOL.
What if this woman is IN the Middle East. Maybe this picture was taken there. That could be why someone with her description (at least as far as we know) hasn't been reported missing. Maybe a military person dropped this. The other idea was that possibly the person who had the pic was of Middle Eastern descent and that was a robe that he had (that belonged to a female friend or family member).
Okay, I'm ready.

There are places in the usa to have your eyebrows threaded, particularly at spas which have a Middle Eastern theme, or near large Islamic areas. And of course you can purchase clothing catering to Middle Eastern women in any large city in USA or over the internet. BUT probably the most prolific threading is done in the Middle East itself, and the area you will find the most thobes is also the Middle East, so I've thought EXACTLY what you are thinking, Lizzy. I don't know how valid the thought is, but it warrents discussion.

Lizzybeth ditto on that. We are all just putting our heads together on this and nobodys idea is any better than anybody elses. I had that same thought as you about whether or not this woman was even in the country. I think the reason is because of when it first came up she looked middle eastern I thought well I know they shoot women over there pretty regularly for some pretty mundane things. Okay, I have to go now and stop my cat from eating a rubberband. Bye!

Gee, trixie, I hope your kitty is OK! And you are so right about nobody's ideas being more valuable than anyone else's. I am a firm follower of the saying "Iron sharpens Iron" Your thinking, Kat's, Lizzies, Jacobeans, ALL of ya'lls ideas make me stop and analyze. It makes me refine my thoughts. And hopefully my ideas will have the same effect. The end product should be some sharply refined ideas!


As an aside: Has anyone here actually communicated with the McClain county sheriff's office? Are they privy to our sleuthing attempts? I think we've had some very good ideas---even the ones I don't see, like Tara. LE needs to know that some people see a strong resemblance, that way they can rule her in or out....

[czechmate7]

There are places in the usa to have your eyebrows threaded, particularly at spas which have a Middle Eastern theme, or near large Islamic areas. And of course you can purchase clothing catering to Middle Eastern women in any large city in USA or over the internet. BUT probably the most prolific threading is done in the Middle East itself, and the area you will find the most thobes is also the Middle East, so I've thought EXACTLY what you are thinking, Lizzy. I don't know how valid the thought is, but it warrents discussion.
..
There was an article in our newspaper a month or so ago about a couple of women in town who offer this service (eyebrow threading)...this is in Pensacola Fl...not a big Middle Eastern population here...

[concernedperson]

All I can say is the girl in the photo is dead. It looks staged to me that the killer was doing his own memorial service with the robe and her position.I can see defensive posturing on her arms and her lip is busted from what is a blow by the perp IMO.This is an after death photo for his memorabilia. He may have passed this on to other pervs and one of them dropped it. He may be incarcerated or dead. But the network is in place. This could be early snuff filming that has been in place for years. I don't think she looks middle eastern I think her garb is part of the ritual.

[KatK]

No, the bags under her eyes, and her hair hold a sort of like a "sick day" look to me. I think her husband or SO killed her, and that it's very possible he has married and murdered other women as well. If the robe were put on her after death, there'd be blood staining/smears on it. I think she was wearing it when she died, and she died in her own home, or in a place where she felt comfortable with the idea of being in a robe.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think there is a better chance the girl is more local. She doesn't look middle eastern to me at all.

Those particular types of robes were very common back in the 80s/90s. My grandmother had a lot of them which looked similar. Yes, it does seem to be 'flocked' and the pattern on it seems to be like an applique with stitching around it or possibly embroidered. (She bought a lot of her clothes at Sears, J.C.Penny's, etc. instead of Walmart. However, many of her robes were gifts from family who spent more on them.) You would have been able to find them in garage or estate sales in steady supply tho.

I am not seeing a cleft in her chin. I keep looking, but not seeing it yet.

If it is Tara C., I don't know there will be any way to verify it is her unless they send the photo to the lab in NM who did the original work on the other photos they thought to be Tara. With both her parents gone, I don't know how they will identify her and this photo could linger on forever unless they either find the perp or her body. (In all the reports I have read there wasn't a mention of other family members either.) Sad to say. They also need to send the photo to Polaroid (if it is a polaroid instant cam shot) to identify the year the paper was used etc.

It is difficult to tell what the OSBI here will do to find out who she is. I don't hold much hope out they are that interested being it was only on one tv station and finally in the local paper in Purcell, Oklahoma where the photo was found.

If you are talking about the black and white photo of the girl killed by Franklin Lloyd...I don't think it resembles her at all. I wish I had my photo editing capabilities I had on my other computer so I could show you about the nose etc and the similarities with the living pictures of Tara C. They are spot on.

[LionRun]

I think there is a better chance the girl is more local. She doesn't look middle eastern to me at all. That robe was pretty common back in the late 80s/early 90s. My grandmother had a lot of them which looked similar. Yes, it does seem to be 'flocked' and the pattern on it does seem to be like an

I agree with you SS. It is more likely, too. And, if she is dead as it seems from the photo she might be, I doubt her bf or husband killed her. It is not uncommon for serial killers to photo their victims just before or after the murder them and keep them as souvenirs and to relive their act for twisted pleasure. And, I think this is more likely. In any case I hope and pray that this case is solved, the perp faces justice, and she can be given back to her family.


Lion

[concernedperson]

I agree with you SS. It is more likely, too. And, if she is dead as it seems from the photo she might be, I doubt her bf or husband killed her. It is not uncommon for serial killers to photo their victims just before or after the murder them and keep them as souvenirs and to relive their act for twisted pleasure. And, I think this is more likely. In any case I hope and pray that this case is solved, the perp faces justice, and she can be given back to her family.


Lion

Totally agree with this being a serial. Just like Dennis Radar.

[Reannan]

Great find on the robe picture kgeaux! I think we are getting closer, but I think the design on the robe is more Greek than Middle Eastern. It appears to be something like the Acanthus Leaf pattern used in a lot of Greek and Italian designs, whether the item is furniture or clothing.

I am curious about what Docwho3 meant in his comment:

"I suspect the robe is a sort of distraction. According to the impressions on her skin, at the arm (as they appear when the image is enlarged and slightly edited for contrast and gamma corrections), the robe was not what she was wearing just before the pic was taken. I think the "robe" was a late addition, perhaps added for the pic."

What impressions on her arm are you seeing? I have said in an earlier post that I am surprised she is clothed at all. The clothing is obviously staged, and I have to assume that there is significance to the choice of clothing.

[LionRun]

Totally agree with this being a serial. Just like Dennis Radar.

Hey there concernedperson:blowkiss:. I hope all is well with you.

Lion

[snarkymalarkey]

http://www.mcclaincountysheriff.com/index.asp?content=25
They removed the picture

[trixie]

OMG! Do you think they have ID'd her?.......or maybe someone objected to the picture of the dead girl on their website! They tried to pass her off as injured.....! (ok, that sounded brash..anyway, if they want help identifying her they need to show the picture. Maybe, hopefully, they know who she is now.)

[snarkymalarkey]

I'm sure they never meant to put that picture on there. I think the retouched photo was supposed to be publically available, not the original.
Did anybody save it?

Did anybody run into this article?
http://www.purcellregister.com/article-display.asp?idnum=1048
It references one unidentified of possible indian decent. I don't know if that means native american or middle eastern...

[laini]

I have it saved under my favorites and it comes up as a .jpg. It still works for me. So I can't copy and paste, right? I thought anything listed under favorites was just a link to a website. So I am confused why I have the photo under my favorites still if it is no longer on their site. Anybody know?

[philamena]

Wow I thought I was the only one who didn't see any resemblence. I didn't see it before and I still don't see it. IMO this photo looks nothing like Tara Calico. I think law enforcement has probably already checked this against KNOWN missing persons and didn't find a match so that's why they are turning to the public to help ID this poor girl. We tend to forget the police have vast resources to check on things like this. IMO they've already done thier thing and came up empty so they are as stumped as we are. It's not Tara, IMO.
I don't see a resemblance either. I do however think this janedoe looks alot like Jennifer Kesse with dark hair. Anyone else think they look similar?

[docwho3]

I'm sure they never meant to put that picture on there. I think the retouched photo was supposed to be publically available, not the original.
Did anybody save it?...
I saved it (as I suspect others also did) on my hard drive and I have been working on various copies of it, looking for details less easily seen.

[trixie]

I saved it to my pictures and I still have it. Don't ask me why, btw don't ask me anything at all about computers cuz I dunno!! I think it is actually in this thread a few pages back. If anyone wants me to put it here let me know.

[SewingDeb]

I have it in my picture files if it is ok to post it here.

[trixie]

I'm sure they never meant to put that picture on there. I think the retouched photo was supposed to be publically available, not the original.
Did anybody save it?

Did anybody run into this article?
http://www.purcellregister.com/article-display.asp?idnum=1048
It references one unidentified of possible indian decent. I don't know if that means native american or middle eastern...

Thanks for the article. I hadn't seen it It is dated 3-4-2004. It said "American Indian" and she had red or reddish brown hair. No clothes, no jewely no ID. Kinda sounds like our girl. But I'm sure they've already checked to see if that picture matches THAT body. Wouldn't you think?

[philamena]

I still think the 'robe' is one from either WalMart or Kmart. And I also remember seeing the pattern of whatever it is that she's laying on -----but for the life of me I can't remember what it is. I remember the pink and the green and a floral pattern of some type. I'm thinking this pattern was on material 10 or more years ago.

[cdt0283]

Well the Sheriff's Dept removed the picture from that page but not their server. So if you find the direct URL in a previous post the untouched picture is still available...for now.


I'm sure they never meant to put that picture on there. I think the retouched photo was supposed to be publically available, not the original.
Did anybody save it?

Did anybody run into this article?
http://www.purcellregister.com/article-display.asp?idnum=1048
It references one unidentified of possible indian decent. I don't know if that means native american or middle eastern...

[cdt0283]

Very poor quality picture here but does anyone see an resemblance to Kelly Tilley, wanted by the McClain SO.

http://www.mcclaincountysheriff.com/index.asp?content=7

[txsvicki]

I still think the 'robe' is one from either WalMart or Kmart. And I also remember seeing the pattern of whatever it is that she's laying on -----but for the life of me I can't remember what it is. I remember the pink and the green and a floral pattern of some type. I'm thinking this pattern was on material 10 or more years ago.


I've seen that type robe and comforter too, or something similar, and remember thinking that it would look too Summery for me to enjoy year round for a few years.

Another observation about the photo (link on page 7). If the girl is laying on a smaller bed, she's not on it straight and her legs may be hanging over the side since she's at an angle. I also think that someone swept her hair back at the top and fixed the tendril hanging down in front of her ear. If she is dead, and that is a fly, someone had to clean her up some, and put her there.

[jacobean]

Okay, here I go with another stupid idea. I guess I'll just throw it out there and you guys can tear it apart. LOL.
What if this woman is IN the Middle East. Maybe this picture was taken there. That could be why someone with her description (at least as far as we know) hasn't been reported missing. Maybe a military person dropped this. The other idea was that possibly the person who had the pic was of Middle Eastern descent and that was a robe that he had (that belonged to a female friend or family member).
Okay, I'm ready.

I dont think its stupid. Just because the picture was dropped/ left in the US, doesnt mean thats where it was taken. The army comment is also interesting - Im an army brat and we had these mattresses when my family were posted to cyprus in the early 80's. Its not something that the forces would provide but my mum would have bought them probably in the naafi, i wonder if the stores on bases round the world stock the same stuff.....sorry, i know its really out there....but was just a thought....

[SeriouslySearching]

OK...I have looked this over very carefully and have come up with a couple of things for you to take a look at. (I can't get the pics to load up here either or I would do that.)

In the black and white known photo of Tara...get the magnifier out and check out her left ear. (Unless it is reversed and it is actually the right one.) It attaches like the one in the unrevised pic. Also notice the little opening coming down between the lobe and the piece the ear above. (It is also easier to compare if you will vertically reverse the black n white photo.)

Then on the other known photo of Tara looking towards her left (colored photo) there appears to be a small freckle/mole on the right side of her chin which you can see clearly on the unrevised, but note she is wearing makeup in her colored photo which would naturally cover it a bit. Also there looks to be a freckle/mole in the same place on her neck as the unrevised pic.

I do notice a slight cleft on both photos.

I did this same comparison to Jennifer Kesse and others that were posted here. I didn't see any postive identifying marks (at least that I could figure out).

[Reannan]

I noticed the same comparisons of the ear and the possible mole/freckle on her neck as SeriouslySearching. I cropped the pictures to focus in on those spots, and then enlarged them till the pixel differentiation was horrible, but I am fairly certain that there is a mole in the same location on the unidentified girl's neck as there is on the picture of Tara. I don't have to enlarge the pictures to see that the ears are very close comparisons. Besides the ear lobes, the ears are also placed generally the same distance between crown of head and chin in both pictures. I just keep going back to the apparent posed nature of the crime scene photo. I don't believe the bed she is laying on is where she was shot....I think we would see more blood splatter on the headboard and mattress....and on her robe. She could have been shot on a corner of the bed which is out of the picture, but I believe she was killed, cleaned up a bit, dressed in that robe (which also doesn't have any blood splatter on it), and then placed in that position for the photograph. The scary thing is, I don't belileve this would have been done by an angry husband, boyfriend, SO, or anyone else who was just pizzed off about something. This was done by a sadistic egocentric individual who was proud of his work. Now, we have to wonder why WE are seeing the picture NOW. I don't believe it was an accident. I hope he isn't getting all psyched up to add a new lady to his collection.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think the reason the photo surfaced now is because it is the end game piece to LE after he found he can't terrorize her family with her parents both deceased. They don't have him and he had them all the way through. He IS a sick, demented person.

He will hopefully be caught in some other way without hurting anyone else. Would be nice to think a traffic violation or an eviction notice would turn up other evidence somewhere. Or even better...someone knows or suspects him enough to turn him in!

[jacobean]

I noticed the same comparisons of the ear and the possible mole/freckle on her neck as SeriouslySearching. I cropped the pictures to focus in on those spots, and then enlarged them till the pixel differentiation was horrible, but I am fairly certain that there is a mole in the same location on the unidentified girl's neck as there is on the picture of Tara. I don't have to enlarge the pictures to see that the ears are very close comparisons. Besides the ear lobes, the ears are also placed generally the same distance between crown of head and chin in both pictures. I just keep going back to the apparent posed nature of the crime scene photo. I don't believe the bed she is laying on is where she was shot....I think we would see more blood splatter on the headboard and mattress....and on her robe. She could have been shot on a corner of the bed which is out of the picture, but I believe she was killed, cleaned up a bit, dressed in that robe (which also doesn't have any blood splatter on it), and then placed in that position for the photograph. The scary thing is, I don't belileve this would have been done by an angry husband, boyfriend, SO, or anyone else who was just pizzed off about something. This was done by a sadistic egocentric individual who was proud of his work. Now, we have to wonder why WE are seeing the picture NOW. I don't believe it was an accident. I hope he isn't getting all psyched up to add a new lady to his collection.

I also wondered about the blood spatter - there doesnt seem to be any on the wood part of the bed (or whatever it is...) so i think you're absolutely right. I've seen some awful things that people who supposedly love each other can do to one another and it pains me to think that a husband or bf could do this to someone, but then i see stuff about (just for example) honour killings and think if parents/ siblings can do things like ive seen to a female family member, im not convinced it couldnt be a significant other, but considering the pic exists i also lean more towards a sadistic serial.....

[daphnec]

I've seen that type robe and comforter too, or something similar, and remember thinking that it would look too Summery for me to enjoy year round for a few years.

To me, the comforter looks like one of the ones you see in really cheap hotels or the ones that you can buy at Dollar General for just a few bucks that are as rough as sand paper and not very heavy. JMO

[kgeaux]

There was an article in our newspaper a month or so ago about a couple of women in town who offer this service (eyebrow threading)...this is in Pensacola Fl...not a big Middle Eastern population here...

Thank you, czech! You've proven that threading is widely available in USA. I was thinking it had to be only in larger markets, but Pensacola is more suburban than that......I think we can say "widely available."

If the robe were put on her after death, there'd be blood staining/smears on it. I think she was wearing it when she died, and she died in her own home, or in a place where she felt comfortable with the idea of being in a robe.

I totally agree with you here. I know posing a victim is common, especially with serial killers, but this poor girl has catastrophic injuries that caused her brains to literally be blown out. (sorry) That robe would surely be a mess if someone dressed her in that after her injuries.

I think there is a better chance the girl is more local. She doesn't look middle eastern to me at all.
.

I agree, Searching, that there is a better chance she is more local, and that the robe is of more local origination. However, Reannan has spent countless hours over several days looking for a similar garment in local markets, and had no luck. That's not to say it's not there! But I figured it was worth a shot to widen our research....and (how old is your gramma?? :blowkiss: ) I have a very similar robe from 1981---the year my oldest son was born--it's velour, it's got a little collar, it zips up, it's got embroidery on the chest area, BUT there is no embroidery on the arm. That is the one thing I've not seen in local (USA) market. And while velour robes are from an ancient market here, silk velvet thobes are popular NOW.

I am praying someone can come up with an exact match---wouldn't that be wonderful to narrow down the time line?

As to your comments about identifying her as Tara, I don't quite remember how it was done, but I've seen one of those forensics shows where they took a known x-ray of a victim and superimposed the x-ray of an unknown victim over it to make a match. If they can do that, maybe they could use an x-ray of Tara and superimpose this photo over to see if eye-sockets, jaw joint, etc. match up?

Great find on the robe picture kgeaux! I think we are getting closer, but I think the design on the robe is more Greek than Middle Eastern. It appears to be something like the Acanthus Leaf pattern used in a lot of Greek and Italian designs, whether the item is furniture or clothing.

I am curious about what Docwho3 meant in his comment:

"I suspect the robe is a sort of distraction. According to the impressions on her skin, at the arm (as they appear when the image is enlarged and slightly edited for contrast and gamma corrections), the robe was not what she was wearing just before the pic was taken. I think the "robe" was a late addition, perhaps added for the pic."

What impressions on her arm are you seeing? I have said in an earlier post that I am surprised she is clothed at all. The clothing is obviously staged, and I have to assume that there is significance to the choice of clothing.

Reannan, you are the one who got me started! All your research inspired me. Your comments about the greek aspect to the design is intriguing. I'll have to look up that pattern. I feel we are getting closer....at least I hope so. The thobe I found is actually "ARABIC." So I'll see what I get with greek!

I can't answer for doc, but I see a slight impression on her forearm.....it begins right at the smear of blood and continues down toward the lower right of the photo. It could conceivable have been made by the armband of another garment, OR it could be that her robe has elasticized wrists , OR it could be markings from a restraint. But doc's observation is valid, if she was dressed after death, then the robe is a distraction. It would serve to make us think she was in her home or a comfortable location, when the exact opposite could be true.

Thinking outside the box now, and trying to go with doc and concerned and others who have mentioned staging: Is the thought process something along the lines that the robe itself may have great significance to the killer? Maybe it was worn by his first victim? And now, as he kills others, he dresses them in death in the robe as a way or re-enacting the first murder?\\

I absolutely hate that I am trying to think like a murderer! I wish we had a profiler as a member of this board, because I betcha we could REALLY benefit.

I remember on another forum, during the Louisiana Serial Killer time, we had a professor of genetics and DNA who would post, and what a wealth of info she shared with us! We need some experts here!

[kgeaux]

I have it in my picture files if it is ok to post it here.

It's so graphic, Deb. I've got it saved, too. But I'd check with Tricia first before posting it.

Thanks for the article. I hadn't seen it It is dated 3-4-2004. It said "American Indian" and she had red or reddish brown hair. No clothes, no jewely no ID. Kinda sounds like our girl. But I'm sure they've already checked to see if that picture matches THAT body. Wouldn't you think?

It also said she died of possible strangulation, which would mean no damage to the skull. Our girl will have a massive head wound.

I still think the 'robe' is one from either WalMart or Kmart. And I also remember seeing the pattern of whatever it is that she's laying on -----but for the life of me I can't remember what it is. I remember the pink and the green and a floral pattern of some type. I'm thinking this pattern was on material 10 or more years ago.

philamena, I was right where you are yesterday. Those colors! They have to be from the past, right? Then my 16 year old son's girlfriend passed by my computer and saw a cropped (thank God) area of the photo: just depicting the area of the comforter *?* underneath the arm and above the robe----and she blurted out "COOL! Retro! Old School!" so I did a search using those terms and guess what? Those colors ARE POPULAR TODAY. Just when I decide it has to be an old photo, I learn maybe not so much.

I have not found an exact match, but those colors are out there and there are even SHINY NYLON comforters with those colors!

[kgeaux]

OK...I have looked this over very carefully and have come up with a couple of things for you to take a look at. (I can't get the pics to load up here either or I would do that.)

In the black and white known photo of Tara...get the magnifier out and check out her left ear. (Unless it is reversed and it is actually the right one.) It attaches like the one in the unrevised pic. Also notice the little opening coming down between the lobe and the piece the ear above. (It is also easier to compare if you will vertically reverse the black n white photo.)

Then on the other known photo of Tara looking towards her left (colored photo) there appears to be a small freckle/mole on the right side of her chin which you can see clearly on the unrevised, but note she is wearing makeup in her colored photo which would naturally cover it a bit. Also there looks to be a freckle/mole in the same place on her neck as the unrevised pic.

I do notice a slight cleft on both photos.

I did this same comparison to Jennifer Kesse and others that were posted here. I didn't see any postive identifying marks (at least that I could figure out).


There are many similarities. Tara also has a small freckle, or tiny mole in the center of her neck, as does our girl. The ear, definite similarities. The tiny cleft, I can see it in both.

Definitely worth checking out.

I personally see differences in the nose, and in the forehead, but Searching, I have been wrong before and it is completely within the realm of possibilities that I am wrong this time.

Good catches. Good catches.

[SewingDeb]

I feel funny even having the picture saved on my computer. That poor woman. I hope this can be solved and there will be justice for her.

[kgeaux]

I feel funny even having the picture saved on my computer. That poor woman. I hope this can be solved and there will be justice for her.


I know. It feels like such an invasion of her privacy, doesn't it? The only thing that makes it "okay" for me is that I know she is crying out for justice. She wants whoever did this to be held accountable. I look at her expression---to me it is of hopeless resignation---and I know she wanted to live, but had that desire beaten out of her. Someone HAS to pay.

Reannan WOW! That acanthus leaf pattern you mentioned....I've got to admit it had never crossed my mind--you are on target, girl.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/7892/acanthusqh7.jpg

I haven't found it on a robe, but the pattern really makes me stop and think.
How popular would that design have been on robes in USA? Would it appear on more expensive or cheaper clothing? Anybody know?

[KatK]

I agree with you SS. It is more likely, too. And, if she is dead as it seems from the photo she might be, I doubt her bf or husband killed her. It is not uncommon for serial killers to photo their victims just before or after the murder them and keep them as souvenirs and to relive their act for twisted pleasure. And, I think this is more likely. In any case I hope and pray that this case is solved, the perp faces justice, and she can be given back to her family.


Lion


Why can't the serial killer be a male black widow type? I saved the image to my hard drive as well. Ask here in the topic if you want a copy and I'll e-mail it to you. ETA: It's too graphic to post here, I can't look at it much at all, I have to get up my courage to open it. ETA2: I'm thinking of the notorious murderer who married his victim, robbed her blind, then mercilessly killed her after finding his next victim to marry then murder. I can't recall his name, but one family out there sought justice for over a decade. (I am not sure if they ever did get justice for their daughter either.)

[SewingDeb]

Ironically, acananthus leaves symbolize long life according to some reading I have done while googling acanthus leaf robe.

[trixie]

I think she was naked and this robe was placed on her after she was killed, and I still think it's a mans robe. If not a mans then at least it's something from the 80's. Just my opinion, of course.

[SewingDeb]

I've found that blue is the color of trancendence. Stained glass windows show Christ with the Father in heaven and both are wearing blue robes.

More on Acanthus symbolism:

TOMBSTONE SYMBOLS

by Shiloh Museum

Acanthus leaf Gardens of Heaven

http://www.rootsweb.com/~arwcags/TomstoneSymbols.htm

This is assuming the robe was added as part of the staging of the scene in the photo.

[SewingDeb]

From this link:

http://www.hedgehoghandworks.com/catalog/BKNW5061.shtml

Did you know that the acanthus leaf symbolizes overcoming life's trials?

[trixie]

In all honesty I think we may be reading too much into some things than we need to. The robe is probably just a robe, and maybe HIS robe at that. She looks to me like she maybe had been in bed sleeping or at least been in bed for awhile when this happened. Her hair has that "scooted around on the pillow" during sleep look and it doesn't look like it had been brushed for this picture. Of course everyone has their own thoughts about all of this and theses are just mine. One thing I try to remember is the "kiss" principle. Most murders are exactly what they seem.

[docwho3]

. . .doc and concerned and others who have mentioned staging: Is the thought process something along the lines that the robe itself may have great significance to the killer? . . .
I don't know that he would or would not have any special reason for using the garment other than it may be convenient to get that garment on and off a victim body and might make his picture taking easier.

The blue color may(or may not) have some significance if the victim is one of those missing persons recently spoken of who had a missing person pic that showed her wearing a blue top (although not the exact same top as we see in our own pic of the unknown victim.) And also there are possible "artistic" reasons as I pointed out before (I hate to use the term "artistic" in connection with a murder but could not think of a better description for the time being.) Mostly though I think it was just easier to put a loose garment of that type on a body. There are some dried fluid stains showing on the face so I think he may have waited until the fluids dried to add the blue garment but, on the other hand, he could have easly put the garment on her just prior to killing her. It is hard to tell if there is any blood on the garment because of the limited angle and limited scope of the pic.

[KatK]

In all honesty I think we may be reading too much into some things than we need to. The robe is probably just a robe, and maybe HIS robe at that. She looks to me like she maybe had been in bed sleeping or at least been in bed for awhile when this happened. Her hair has that "scooted around on the pillow" during sleep look and it doesn't look like it had been brushed for this picture. Of course everyone has their own thoughts about all of this and theses are just mine. One thing I try to remember is the "kiss" principle. Most murders are exactly what they seem.

I agree.

[SewingDeb]

You all are probably right that the robe is just a robe that was handy or she was wearing it when she died. Just exploring some possibilties of the design and color having meaning to the killer and the robe representing something in his mind.

[trixie]

I agree.

Whew! Thank goodness! I thought everybody would be mad at me. lol!

[SewingDeb]

Nah! LOL.

[philamena]

I've seen that type robe and comforter too, or something similar, and remember thinking that it would look too Summery for me to enjoy year round for a few years.

Another observation about the photo (link on page 7). If the girl is laying on a smaller bed, she's not on it straight and her legs may be hanging over the side since she's at an angle. I also think that someone swept her hair back at the top and fixed the tendril hanging down in front of her ear. If she is dead, and that is a fly, someone had to clean her up some, and put her there.

Yes, txvicki,
You and I are seeing things the same way.
Good idea about her laying on a smaller type bed.

[cdt0283]

Anyone ?

Very poor quality picture here but does anyone see an resemblance to Kelly Tilley, wanted by the McClain SO.

http://www.mcclaincountysheriff.com/index.asp?content=7

[concernedperson]

Anyone ?

Actually there is a resemblance. Kelly seems to have a slighter fuller face and a shorter nose but it is difficult to discern features in that photo.

[kgeaux]

Anyone ?

I can't make out enough detail to see if Kelly fits or not. Generally speaking, Kelly is a dark haired, young white woman, so I guess to that degree she fits. The photo of her is so washed out regarding her nose and chin that I can't really make a comparison.

It is interesting to note, that with Kelly being on the lam, so to speak, that would make her "disappearance" something nobody would really notice. She could be dead and people would just assume she'd taken off to elude the law. So maybe she fits in that aspect too.

[laini]

The scary thing is, I don't belileve this would have been done by an angry husband, boyfriend, SO, or anyone else who was just pizzed off about something. This was done by a sadistic egocentric individual who was proud of his work. .

This is what I believe, too, Reannan.

[trixie]

I think I see a resemblence as far as a long nose, thin lips and thin plucked eyebrows but we'd need a clearer picture I think to be any more sure. I do think however this girl is a closer match than Tara Calico.

[Indy Gal]

Ok guys first post here, but I have read everything.

First as much as I want to agree with you SS, I just cant. For me the main thing is the hair. Taras seemed thicker than this girls. The girls in the photo looks much thinner IMO.

Also, If you look right under her ear in the untouched photo, IMO the is some kind of hole or wound there. If you like I can circle it and PM it to whomever wants me too.

I can not for the life of me figure out what that is in the bottom left, that her head is on. It looks strange IMO.

You guys are awesome by the way!!!

[cdt0283]

Yeah. It looks like a drivers license photo and the quality is horrible. I still do see some similaries but its difficult because you can only see the profile of the unidentified woman.

Actually there is a resemblance. Kelly seems to have a slighter fuller face and a shorter nose but it is difficult to discern features in that photo.

[SeriouslySearching]

Yeah. It looks like a drivers license photo and the quality is horrible. I still do see some similaries but its difficult because you can only see the profile of the unidentified woman.

There is some resemblance with the eyebrow and chin, but the hair is just all wrong for me. You can't tell about the nose because of the pic quality. Too bad they don't have a better photo of her.

[T-Rex]

Funny you guys all mentioned Eighties, because I was thinking those sheets looked very Miami Vice-period, which was around 1985.

[trixie]

Ok guys first post here, but I have read everything.

First as much as I want to agree with you SS, I just cant. For me the main thing is the hair. Taras seemed thicker than this girls. The girls in the photo looks much thinner IMO.

Also, If you look right under her ear in the untouched photo, IMO the is some kind of hole or wound there. If you like I can circle it and PM it to whomever wants me too.

I can not for the life of me figure out what that is in the bottom left, that her head is on. It looks strange IMO.

You guys are awesome by the way!!!

Hi Indygal! What do you mean by what her head is lying on?All I see is the comforter type thing. Oh and yes I see the hole or wound you are talking about. Are we sure that's not just some hair? I dunno.

Whoops just went and looked again and actually it looks like the blood/brain matter that is up in her hair.

[trixie]

Concerning the robe: does anyone see how the design is in gold which looks kind of filled in or colored in with gold? Well does anyone else see the one design that is only partially filled in or colored in? It looks like this design may have been a pattern she or someone drew on or something and they were filling it in with the gold color and it didn't get finished. Was that about as clear as mud?! lol! I really noticed it when I turned the pic upside down and looked at it. Anybody else see what I see? Maybe the reason we can't find this robe is because it is actually from a home-made pattern?

[philamena]

trixie,
I see it. Do you think someone, maybe the victim, was filling in the design with ink? Or could the missing portion of the design have simply washed off?

[trixie]

I'm so glad somebody else sees it! Sometimes when you turn the pic upside down you can see new things. To me it looks unfinished.

[Reannan]

You guys are amazing. I have been busy with entertaining guest for a Fourth of July party, and all I really wanted to do was get back to the computer and search for that robe or bedspread (or whatever it is). You have all come up with some great ideas. I had not noticed the incomplete coloring on the robe before....it is odd. There seems to be some dissent regarding whether or not she was wearing the robe when she was killed. I am betting she was not. I just think any injury that would cause brain matter to be visible would result in a large amount of blood, and I just don't see it on the robe or bedspread. Therefore....take a mental journey with me into the mind of a serial killer...... if you have just murdered someone, and you need a picture to remind you of them, do you just grab the camera and start taking photographs? Maybe.....but this guy apparently moved her to a clean location, and posed her with her hand in that position after putting her in a robe. WHY? Why would he go through the trouble of dressing her? Maybe the robe belonged to his Mother, or to someone else of significance. I just can't get past the idea that this is a posed picture, and one that was done with a lot of thought. The staging included making sure the victim was in a relatively clean environment and dressed. It had to mean something to him.

[Reannan]

Someone, a few posts back (sorry I can't remember who) said she had that "sick day" hair look. I think this poor lady had been held captive for a while, and that is why she had that "sick day" hair look, and why she has dark circles under her eye. It explains the electrical tie or piece of braided robe that you can see in the picture. I think her hands were tied when she was shot, and they were untied when she was dressed and posed for the picture. It does feel strange and even creepy having the picture on your hard drive, but I am glad that all of you are out there to care for her. She deserves someone to care, and she deserves justice.

[trixie]

I'm not sure about the serial killer angle. It still seems to me to be the work of a boyfriend or husband and I think she had been in bed maybe asleep prior to........:( You know maybe somone came home late and drunk and well...!
I also think it looks like she has a black eye. If you blow up the pic right on that area it looks like an uneven smattering of darkness below the eye. Not really like its just dark circles under her eye.

Also, if we really want to think outside the box what about a hitman? Don't they take a picture of the victim to prove they are dead?And don't professionals shoot in the head? I thought that was a common tell-tale sign of a hitmans work. And that is really the only person I could understand having and saving a picture like this. To show the job has been done.

I don't think the robe has any significance, just MO. I still say it looks like one she may have made herself. It does look too large for her though and that's why I was thinking it may be a mans. That and the pattern to me looks kinda masculine. I agree with you that it looks to have been put on her after the fact and her head was posed to lean the opposite way for the picture if we look at the trickle of blood coming from her mouth to get a refernce for where the blood ran to before.

[Jaded]

You guys are amazing. I have been busy with entertaining guest for a Fourth of July party, and all I really wanted to do was get back to the computer and search for that robe or bedspread (or whatever it is). You have all come up with some great ideas. I had not noticed the incomplete coloring on the robe before....it is odd. There seems to be some dissent regarding whether or not she was wearing the robe when she was killed. I am betting she was not. I just think any injury that would cause brain matter to be visible would result in a large amount of blood, and I just don't see it on the robe or bedspread. Therefore....take a mental journey with me into the mind of a serial killer...... if you have just murdered someone, and you need a picture to remind you of them, do you just grab the camera and start taking photographs? Maybe.....but this guy apparently moved her to a clean location, and posed her with her hand in that position after putting her in a robe. WHY? Why would he go through the trouble of dressing her? Maybe the robe belonged to his Mother, or to someone else of significance. I just can't get past the idea that this is a posed picture, and one that was done with a lot of thought. The staging included making sure the victim was in a relatively clean environment and dressed. It had to mean something to him.

I think it's a trophy picture, and I do believe this woman was posed. The hand is at an unnatural angle; maybe rigor had set in and that's the way it ended up being laid out. ??? I am wondering if LE cropped more from this photo and the public is only privy to what is being put out there. I'm really glad that the original untouched version of the pic was found. It really puts a whole new light on this case.

[trixie]

I know the photo is cropped and thats frustrating. I feel like we would be able to see more of what she is laying on if we could see the whole picture. I wonder what they didn't want us to see?

[txsvicki]

Concerning the robe: does anyone see how the design is in gold which looks kind of filled in or colored in with gold? Well does anyone else see the one design that is only partially filled in or colored in? It looks like this design may have been a pattern she or someone drew on or something and they were filling it in with the gold color and it didn't get finished. Was that about as clear as mud?! lol! I really noticed it when I turned the pic upside down and looked at it. Anybody else see what I see? Maybe the reason we can't find this robe is because it is actually from a home-made pattern?

Is the design gold? I had thought it was green and thought that was odd, but when I saved the pic to favorites and opened it, I could see some gold. Also, are the leaves Acanthus as one poster mentioned? I thought the unfilled in design was some sort of flower outlined in the white with the leaves around it. I'd like to know what it is and if it's a unisex robe or female.

[docwho3]

. . .I am curious about what Docwho3 meant in his comment:

"I suspect the robe is a sort of distraction. According to the impressions on her skin, at the arm (as they appear when the image is enlarged and slightly edited for contrast and gamma corrections), the robe was not what she was wearing just before the pic was taken. I think the "robe" was a late addition, perhaps added for the pic."

What impressions on her arm are you seeing? I have said in an earlier post that I am surprised she is clothed at all. The clothing is obviously staged, and I have to assume that there is significance to the choice of clothing. Sorry for not answering more clearly and sooner.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/Doezz/armbig2b.jpg

There are also a few other details that I see in the pic but I do not want to post those yet as I think L.E. should have the chance to make use of the info (I figure they have software or other ways to enlarge a pic at least as good and probably better than mine and probably see details even better than I.)

Also: This image is somewhat similar (although not exactly the same) in blue color and pose of subject and hair style to the one OSBI found although I do not know if that just means that I noticed what seems like posing going on or if the resemblance was intentional. (I do not have a favorite theory yet since there is too little info available.)
http://www.news-bulletin.com/news/34978-10312.jpg

[SeriouslySearching]

Let's try to find some common ground to start with now and work our way out from there.

*I don't think there is anything, but a common female's robe/housecoat there for us to dwell on, IMO. It isn't rare or unusual in the design or the materials used to make it.

*The lack of blood stain or matter could be simple...she was in the robe, but was covered up with a blanket or something...so he just removed it. Or it was stained on the back of the robe and since we aren't seeing the site of the wound or exit, if there is one, and cannot conclusively say if it is matter or coagulation mixed within the hair. (I just watched Dr. Lee's re-inactment on testing his own blood for timed coagulation and it looks very similiar.) She could have been knocked in the head or anything. We don't know. Another thing is with the color of the robe in this photo, blood could have absorbed into the velour and not changed it dramatically from a poor quality photo standpoint. It is possible he redressed her or dressed her, but this would have disturbed the blood more, wouldn't it? So here we have our first set of unknowns, but we can agree she is deceased by some unknown cause. (Also meaning the OSBI intentionally mislead the public and the McClaine County Sheriff's Dept. didn't get the memo. Great detective work, KatK!)

*However, I haven't found a single drop on the bedding or the wood. has anyone else seen any indication of that? (I believe the bright pink on the left bottom corner is a pink flower with small petals such as a hydrangia or similar. It seems to have flecks of white mixed in to resemble such so would be part of the overall piece of the pattern on the cloth and not splatter.) So to think she was put there afterward would be a logical assumption meaning staged.

*Docwho3 might have a good point about it being somewhat artistic, but I am not sure we could begin to apply that to such a photo or a profile of this perp. He is a sick, demented person to do this and photograph it in the first place. I do think it is a trophy of some kind in his warped mind and I think maybe we could agree on this point. It could be a "hit photo" for proof, but the ones I have heard about are taken with the gore intact and not staged afterward. (Still, this all really gives me cold chills about this poor girl and how coldblooded, methodical, and really evil he is.)

*Other things point to staging as she must have been turned or posed to this position because of the blood flow towards the right side of the face then turning towards the chin area. He at least moved her head facing the other way, but could have been smeared toward the chin and the smears on her arm also indicate he moved her, IMO. I still see a considerable bruise/discoloration on her arm from the elbow up towards the hand and coming around the muscle area. It looks like it could be from someone grabbing her with lots of pressure from the front, but it could be the result of blood pooling in the area if the arm were in a down position for a time after her death. (If I have listened to Dr. Lee's, Dr. Perper's and other forensic explanations carefully.)

*I noticed the white cord like or plastic long piece in the first revised photo because it was out of place in her hair. It would make sense it once restrained her where we once figured it was used to strangle her and now we have the other photo which seems to negate that. I am not seeing where there are any visible ligature marks either on her wrist or her neck area tho, so is it possible it was around her ankles at some point? Then it would be reasonable for us to agree she wasn't with him of her own free will and was being restrained indicating an abduction at some point.

*The photo does look "incomplete" like LE cropped it or the perp did.

**These I think are all points we can agree on, yes? (OK, I know some won't agree about the robe or even the possible timing *80s/90s. <shrugs> so we won't include those for now.)

Female.
Reddish/Auburn hair.
Late teens/mid 20s.
Unknown cause of death.
Unknown crime scene.
Staged/posed/cropped scene.
Photo for trophy.
Abducted.
Photo found outside a remote gas station near Purcell, OK. 4 + miles from Interstate 35.

These points can give a direction towards known perps with similiar MOs to research.

Franklin D. Lloyd serving currently on death row so could not have been at the scene where photo was found during the time frame. Was known to take photos then place them between the gas tank and frame of car underneath tho.

Tara Calico's abductor: Unknown. Left various photos to be found: One of girl and boy in duct tape and bound. Other photos which I don't think were ever released, but LE has recovered from a gas station and residential construction site and are believed to be Tara. (Were there other sites and photos released?)

Do we know of any more cases similiar to this?

[jacobean]

ive been having a long look at mattresses to try to find something similar -

The one at this link is a bunk bed mattress with a rocket design - im looking to find something similar with a tropical design....could this be the sort of thing shes lying on....?
http://www.simplybunkbeds.com/mattresses/twin-mattresses/products.cfm?action=view&key=WCM067

[txsvicki]

I agree with your description of the girl's age and everything except I believe the design on the robe is fairly unique. If the robe and comforter could be found, then we'd know a possible time frame. What do you make of the wound on the thumb area and do you believe the area around the mouth is blood and not a wound? I can't make out what the paler area is that is going down the cheek. If it's an abrasion or blood drops, it's not very red. It's very faint. I wondered if it could be a mild abrasion that never had a chance to get redder or inflamed since the girl was deceased. I thought that the thumb/hand area was a wound and that it could have been caused from the victim herself clenching her fists so hard that her nails caused injury. Perhaps due to severe pain. Let's try to find some common ground to start with now and work our way out from there.

*I don't think there is anything, but a common female's robe/housecoat there for us to dwell on, IMO. It isn't rare or unusual in the design or the materials used to make it.

*The lack of blood stain or matter could be simple...she was in the robe, but was covered up with a blanket or something...so he just removed it. Or it was stained on the back of the robe and since we aren't seeing the site of the wound or exit, if there is one, and cannot conclusively say if it is matter or coagulation mixed within the hair. (I just watched Dr. Lee's re-inactment on testing his own blood for timed coagulation and it looks very similiar.) She could have been knocked in the head or anything. We don't know. Another thing is with the color of the robe in this photo, blood could have absorbed into the velour and not changed it dramatically from a poor quality photo standpoint. It is possible he redressed her or dressed her, but this would have disturbed the blood more, wouldn't it? So here we have our first set of unknowns, but we can agree she is deceased by some unknown cause. (Also meaning the OSBI intentionally mislead the public and the McClaine County Sheriff's Dept. didn't get the memo. Great detective work, KatK!)

*However, I haven't found a single drop on the bedding or the wood. has anyone else seen any indication of that? (I believe the bright pink on the left bottom corner is a pink flower with small petals such as a hydrangia or similar. It seems to have flecks of white mixed in to resemble such so would be part of the overall piece of the pattern on the cloth and not splatter.) So to think she was put there afterward would be a logical assumption meaning staged.

*Docwho3 might have a good point about it being somewhat artistic, but I am not sure we could begin to apply that to such a photo or a profile of this perp. He is a sick, demented person to do this and photograph it in the first place. I do think it is a trophy of some kind in his warped mind and I think maybe we could agree on this point. It could be a "hit photo" for proof, but the ones I have heard about are taken with the gore intact and not staged afterward. (Still, this all really gives me cold chills about this poor girl and how coldblooded, methodical, and really evil he is.)

*Other things point to staging as she must have been turned or posed to this position because of the blood flow towards the right side of the face then turning towards the chin area. He at least moved her head facing the other way, but could have been smeared toward the chin and the smears on her arm also indicate he moved her, IMO. I still see a considerable bruise/discoloration on her arm from the elbow up towards the hand and coming around the muscle area. It looks like it could be from someone grabbing her with lots of pressure from the front, but it could be the result of blood pooling in the area if the arm were in a down position for a time after her death. (If I have listened to Dr. Lee's, Dr. Perper's and other forensic explanations carefully.)

*I noticed the white cord like or plastic long piece in the first revised photo because it was out of place in her hair. It would make sense it once restrained her where we once figured it was used to strangle her and now we have the other photo which seems to negate that. I am not seeing where there are any visible ligature marks either on her wrist or her neck area tho, so is it possible it was around her ankles at some point? Then it would be reasonable for us to agree she wasn't with him of her own free will and was being restrained indicating an abduction at some point.

*The photo does look "incomplete" like LE cropped it or the perp did.

**These I think are all points we can agree on, yes? (OK, I know some won't agree about the robe or even the possible timing *80s/90s. <shrugs> so we won't include those for now.)

Female.
Reddish/Auburn hair.
Late teens/mid 20s.
Unknown cause of death.
Unknown crime scene.
Staged/posed/cropped scene.
Photo for trophy.
Abducted.
Photo found outside a remote gas station near Purcell, OK. 4 + miles from Interstate 35.

These points can give a direction towards known perps with similiar MOs to research.

Franklin D. Lloyd serving currently on death row so could not have been at the scene where photo was found during the time frame. Was known to take photos then place them between the gas tank and frame of car underneath tho.

Tara Calico's abductor: Unknown. Left various photos to be found: One of girl and boy in duct tape and bound. Other photos which I don't think were ever released, but LE has recovered from a gas station and residential construction site and are believed to be Tara. (Were there other sites and photos released?)

Do we know of any more cases similiar to this?

[SeriouslySearching]

I personally believe the blood coming from the mouth area could be attributed to what happens after certain types of death (Dr. Perper went through this in ANS's autopsy interviews), not the cause of death. The same with the blood near or on the hand area. It can be reasonably assumed that neither of those could cause death so it was from a mortal wound or other cause we cannot see.

I agree about the comforter and the robe, but I can almost guarantee the time period on both and just how common they were then. People aren't going to agree on this until we can find the exact or near enough to show them tho...and trust me...I have been researching it daily. In our area of the country, both were very common in the 80s-early 90s

Someone mentioned the comforter and it being around the Miami Vice era which would fit. The comforter colors and pattern lend itself to that time period.

[txsvicki]

http://www.razadesigns.com/gallery/details.asp?CA=34&id=666

this link shows a caftan robe. I believe the robe in the pic would be considered a caftan since the color can be worn down to show the emblem under the collar and it appears to zip up the front and have loose sleeves.

[Jaded]

On the original link with the picture, what was it listed under at McClaine County Sheriff's Dept? UID? Just wondering what details were given with the photo and I can't seem to find anything on their website with the picture or the details of it.

[SeriouslySearching]

Along that line, yes, but would have been much cheaper made and not full length.

[docwho3]

. . .*Docwho3 might have a good point about it being somewhat artistic, but I am not sure we could begin to apply that to such a photo or a profile of this perp. . .
I agree that it is too soon to adopt my "impressions" as theory. I mention the impressions as only possibilities for now. They were only first impressions and may well have been incorrect in some ways.

I am in the process of revamping some of my earlier thoughts on this case due to the fact that I think I have ID'd some relatively innocent part of the picture that at first seemed sinister to me.

[Jaded]

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/3738/1183635735489fs1.th.png (http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1183635735489fs1.png)

Just went to the Sheriff's site and picture has been removed. Interesting.

[SeriouslySearching]

On the original link with the picture, what was it listed under at McClaine County Sheriff's Dept? UID? Just wondering what details were given with the photo and I can't seem to find anything on their website with the picture or the details of it.
You would have to ask KatK. I never saw it on their site, just the link she posted to here. Someone said it had been removed. I found it originally on the tv station site locally and they got their photo off the OSBI website where it is still posted as far as I know, but only the retouched photo was ever posted with either one of them. It is on page one post one.

[docwho3]

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/3738/1183635735489fs1.th.png (http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1183635735489fs1.png)

Just went to the Sheriff's site and picture has been removed. Interesting. Last time I looked (a very little bit ago) the original pic was still on the server but you had to already know its address to see it because it is no longer part of any webpage we are allowed to see. I do not know about others but I am not posting the original entire pic anywhere until I know why L.E. removed their pic from the viewable webpage. I would not want to mess up any later court case against the bad guy when he is found.

[Jaded]

http://www.kxii.com/home/headlines/8139092.html Found another article about it.

MCCLAIN COUNTY, Okla. -- Oklahoma (http://www.kxii.com/home/headlines/8139092.html#) state investigators are asking for your help in identifying a woman they believe is injured.
This photograph was found earlier this week just outside of Purcell in McClain County.
Authorities say the picture was lying beside a gas pump at a service station.
if Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation forensic artists touched-up the image for public release.
If you have any information, you're asked to call authorities. They have used a smaller version of the retouched photo.

[Jaded]

Last time I looked (a very little bit ago) the original pic was still on the server but you had to already know its address to see it because it is no longer part of any webpage we are allowed to see. I do not know about others but I am not posting the original entire pic anywhere until I know why L.E. removed their pic from the viewable webpage. I would not want to mess up any later court case against the bad guy when he is found.

I found the original pic on their server. I wonder why they pulled the photo? Was there an article on their site about the picture at all?

[KatK]

Yes, the article on the Sheriff's site re-iterated what was said in the first post here. The unretouched photo was there as well. I saved it, with the idea that it might be taken down at some point. (For all the webmaster knows, is morbid gawkers are looking at the image again and again, and getting a sick kick out of it.)

[Jaded]

Yes, the article on the Sheriff's site re-iterated what was said in the first post here. The unretouched photo was there as well. I saved it, with the idea that it might be taken down at some point. (For all the webmaster knows, is morbid gawkers are looking at the image again and again, and getting a sick kick out of it.)

I emailed the Sheriff to ask if the case had been solved and if that's why the photo was taken down. *shrugs*

[LionRun]

I emailed the Sheriff to ask if the case had been solved and if that's why the photo was taken down. *shrugs*

Thank you Jaded:). Please keep us posted.

Lion

[Jaded]

Thank you Jaded:). Please keep us posted.

Lion

I will. I'm hoping that they have identified her. If I hear anything, I'll post right away. I'm off for the next few days. yippee!!! :dance:

[SeriouslySearching]

Thanks, Jaded! Good idea! I guess we could have just asked.

I have spent two hours tonite trying to find a robe like that. I am telling you they were so common no one saved them (or so comfy...wore them out!), but my Aunt or Mom might know where they used to buy them for their moms!

[Jaded]

I also provided a link to this thread - just in case they are still seeking clues. There is a lot of good information here, even if speculation. I'll keep ya' posted.

[MsRusty]

I've been studying the photo since the begining, and most of my observations have already been mentioned. I keep wondering about the photo itself. Who would carry around this picture and why?? I understand serial killers and such would take a pic like this, but would they actually carry it around with them? I would think they'd have their private stash somewhere and revisit it. Maybe the picture wasn't actually dropped there but placed. And if this woman was the victim of such a killer, wouldn't she already have been found (assuming she was killed in her home?) She may be long buried. Also I don't think the bed was actually the place she was shot/killed, as has been mentioned, the area (what we can actually see) looks too clean. I'm thinking she was picked up from the floor and placed on the bed since she's lying at an angle. One last question--have we discussed what the two marks on her arms might be and how they got there? I at first assumed finger marks from somebody that moved the body, now I'm not so sure.

[mjak]

One of the things that has puzzled me about this is a contradiction I see between some of her injuries. Her head injury looks very real to me. Even in the touched up picture I was fairly sure she had a bullet wound in the head and there was brain matter evident. However, the blood from her mouth and on her hand almost looks placed as if done by a makeup artist. Does anyone think there is a possiblity this is a posed photo of somesort. I think her pale lips, head position look very real to me yet I keep going back to those to bloody areas.

mjak

[lizzybeth]

Two things came to my mind when looking at the picture (I don't have access to it anymore). One was that the bloody prints on her arm were from whoever killed her. Maybe when they placed her hand in that position they had blood (hers or theirs) on their hand. Maybe someone that has been able to enlarge it can see whether it could or couldn't be that. The other thing is an abrasion. Either from some type of rope or binding. Is there anyway they might be defensive wounds?

Since the place where the picture was left was sort of out of the way that maybe someone traveling left it. A truck driver, salesman, etc. The other possibility would be someone that lives in that town.

I really wish LE would give some more information (that is if they have any).

[KatK]

Posting the retouched image here. Let me know in this topic (my PM box is nearly full) if you want a copy of the un-retouched image. (Found in the article linked in the first post to this topic.)


http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/6535/unidentifiedwoman0607ep3.jpg

[lizzybeth]

Thank you KatK. Yes, I would like you to pm a pic of the other photo.

Thanks.

[KatK]

Check your PMs.

[Reannan]

I wish we had access to the real photograph. Both images we see are cropped. If you look at the wood in the retouched photo, you can see a lot more of it than you can in the unretouched photo. I wish the sheriff's office website would at least put some sort of explanation on the site as to why they have removed the picture. I think the marks on her arm are abrasions rather than finger marks. I think they occurred during the same event that caused the bruising on her forearm.

[Jaded]

I wish we had access to the real photograph. Both images we see are cropped. If you look at the wood in the retouched photo, you can see a lot more of it than you can in the unretouched photo. I wish the sheriff's office website would at least put some sort of explanation on the site as to why they have removed the picture. I think the marks on her arm are abrasions rather than finger marks. I think they occurred during the same event that caused the bruising on her forearm.

I did get a reply - as soon as I hear back from the Sheriff again, I will post what I can. I wanted to make sure that I could share the info.

[Reannan]

Thanks Jaded! I hope they understand that this case has become an obsession for some of us. We ultimately just want justice, and are willing to help in anyway possible. The last thing we would want to do is jeopardize the case or cause problems. I would be so happy to hear that someone came forward and identified this lady.

[christine2448]

You all are awesome, but I didn't need to say that did I?



OK, I am going to throw this out here...what makes everyone so sure what is drapped over her is a robe? What if it is NOT a robe, and a top sheet? Couldn't it be?



What she is lying on is familair to me, like other posters. I belive it maybe a childs comforter.

I can't wait to find out what Jaded learns!

[Reannan]

Yea, Jaded......I hope they at least let you tell us if we can stop looking, or if we can continue.....even if we are on the right track.

[Jaded]

Yea, Jaded......I hope they at least let you tell us if we can stop looking, or if we can continue.....even if we are on the right track.

She is not from the US, so she will not be in any database here. She is Iraqi and she was a victim of homicide. I'll fill you in on the rest as soon as I hear back from the Sheriff. I'm really not sure why the news site posted the photo as they did -- seeking info on her, but I have posed this question, as well.

[KatK]

:waitasec: Surely they'd have immigration records on her? Perhaps even a passport photo on file? The problem would be knowing where to look, you'd have to know what city she entered the country from to start.

[Saavy]

FYI

Post #151 on page 7 has the link to the original photo. The link still worked as of a few minutes ago.

[Reannan]

Well kudo's to everyone that had already decided Middle Eastern heritage! I just hope she wasn't the victim of homicide by someone who is in the US military, and they had the photo, but accidentally dropped it. That would be really tragic and sad for all sorts of reasons.

[Reannan]

I wasn't very clear on my last post.....I meant to say, I hope she wasn't killed in Iraq by someone in our military who kept the photo.

[czechmate7]

When I traveled to Kuwait during Operation Desert Storm they had many stores where you could purchase photos of deceased individuals....most of them were of combat fatalities but it was like no big deal for people to be selling them. Perhaps that is case here...

[lizzybeth]

I wonder if anyone that lives in that town is in the military? I also wonder how they were able to determine that she was Iraqi? There obviously are some things about the picture and in the picture that we aren't privy to. Maybe the type of film that was used? Or maybe somewhere there is writing on the picture.

I know we mentioned someone in the military before and I hate to think that someone in our forces murdered this girl but it has happened. Remember the fourteen yr. old girl that was raped, murdered along with some of her family members?

Since she's Iraqi I'm not sure how much help we can be of now.

[KatK]

I'm thinking she died in this country.

[lizzybeth]

This probably has nothing to do with this case as most of these women end up in other Middle Eastern countries. I just thought it was interesting.

http://www.irinnews.org/reporttest.aspx?ReportId=61903

[czechmate7]

This probably has nothing to do with this case as most of these women end up in other Middle Eastern countries. I just thought it was interesting.

http://www.irinnews.org/reporttest.aspx?ReportId=61903
Wow...how sad; but the way I saw women treated in the Middle East I can't say this is shocking to me.

[Reannan]

I don't want this to turn into a political discussion, but I think you can judge a society by the way women, children, and animals are treated by the members of the society. That is one of the things that scares me about our society here in the US.....some of the things I read about here at WS and over at Huff's place make you fear for the thin fabric that seems to be holding our civilization together.

[lizzybeth]

I didn't see anything political about that statement and I agree with you 100% percent.

[Reannan]

Sorry, I wasn't saying anyone else had said anything political....my statement was more of a disclaimer on MY statement. It wasn't meant to be political either.

[lizzybeth]

Don't be sorry. I knew what you meant. I was just stating that I didn't view it as a political statement either.

[SeriouslySearching]

This is what the Sheriff's dept told you, Jaded?! I guess I am confused.

[SeriouslySearching]

I hope they really have identified her. No matter where she is from, her family deserves to know the truth of her whereabouts...of course, unless her family could be involved. I hope and pray it isn't someone in our military who could have done this, but I realize it is possible. We do have a military base in OKC along the 1-35 corridor called Tinker Air Force Base. I am not aware of any Iraqi populations around here, but there are in NJ and many in Michigan.

I will admit I didn't see the middle eastern in her in this pic at all! Great job, Sleuthers! So it does explain the caftan with the specific design, too! (Maybe my grandmother's robes were made in the middle east after all, I just know all the older women had them here...I will still find out for my own reference.) I find the comforter rather odd for the middle east. Does this mean she was here possibly when she was killed?!

I wonder why they have her still up at the OSBI website then? Looking for more clues perhaps? I don't like it when they purposely deceive the public like they have. Makes me not trust them in the future! The request to find this 'gravely injured' person came from them and not from the news station.

[trixie]

We already knew they were decieving us when they said they "think she is injured." Yeah, right! So now I really think the robe is homemade and wasn't finished. And this could really be a very recent photo if it is from the middle east somewhere. I just wonder tho, if the sherriffs separtment KNOWS she Iraqi then how is it they don't know who she is? How in the world do they have the info they already have and not have it all?

[kgeaux]

Funny you guys all mentioned Eighties, because I was thinking those sheets looked very Miami Vice-period, which was around 1985.

They do look like they are from the past, but look what I found on the market today:

http://img234.imageshack.us/img234/6572/hotpinknu3.jpg

Concerning the robe: does anyone see how the design is in gold which looks kind of filled in or colored in with gold? Well does anyone else see the one design that is only partially filled in or colored in? It looks like this design may have been a pattern she or someone drew on or something and they were filling it in with the gold color and it didn't get finished. Was that about as clear as mud?! lol! I really noticed it when I turned the pic upside down and looked at it. Anybody else see what I see? Maybe the reason we can't find this robe is because it is actually from a home-made pattern?

I think the robe is a solid blue, the yoke area is a lighter mix of blue and white, with a design that contains swirls, some of which are filled in and some which are not.....I see stitches in the gold, and in the white outlines of the pattern. Honestly, I think it's machine done because of the preciseness of the stitches.

Is the design gold? I had thought it was green and thought that was odd, but when I saved the pic to favorites and opened it, I could see some gold. Also, are the leaves Acanthus as one poster mentioned? I thought the unfilled in design was some sort of flower outlined in the white with the leaves around it. I'd like to know what it is and if it's a unisex robe or female.

I agree about the pattern. I think it contains (on purpose) some areas which are filled in and some which are simply outlines of flowers or loops or whatever.

I think it is definitely a woman's robe, not a man's. The embroidery pattern might be considered unisex, but I don't think I've ever seen a man's collared velour robe that zipped up the front, with embroidery on the yoke, collar and arm.

[kgeaux]

I know the photo is cropped and thats frustrating. I feel like we would be able to see more of what she is laying on if we could see the whole picture. I wonder what they didn't want us to see?

It's so cropped that we can't even really tell if there is blood splatter on the bed or wood in the background. Much of blood splatter is tiny and scattered, so the fact that we aren't seeing it here doesn't mean that she was moved to this location. I'm thinking we probably are seeing half of the picture, maybe less.

Along that line, yes, but would have been much cheaper made and not full length.

Why would it have to be cheaper? and not full length? Did I miss something? Or are you just speculating based on gramma's robe?

She is not from the US, so she will not be in any database here. She is Iraqi and she was a victim of homicide. I'll fill you in on the rest as soon as I hear back from the Sheriff. I'm really not sure why the news site posted the photo as they did -- seeking info on her, but I have posed this question, as well.

Oh, I'm sorry, but I can't seem to help myself: TOLD YA'll SO!! (Sorry. I'm so bad.) Those thobes which that type of embroidery are popular there NOW. And the colors of the comforter, the fact that it is shiny, that's all popular over there right now.

Well kudo's to everyone that had already decided Middle Eastern heritage! I just hope she wasn't the victim of homicide by someone who is in the US military, and they had the photo, but accidentally dropped it. That would be really tragic and sad for all sorts of reasons.

Jacobean got that ball rolling. Once she noticed the threaded eyebrows, it was just simple logic from that point. Plus a small search of Islamic women's clothings showed the style of robe as current and readily available now, and when I started researching the sheets, one of the main suppliers of our "retro" look that is so popular today is smack dab in the center of the Middle East. Everything started to fall into "KISS"

I'm thinking she died in this country.

She'd be in a data base here if she was a citizen or even a resident alien. I'm afraid Reannan may be on the right track with her worrying that an American soldier may have dropped this photo.......I hope not, I hope not, but I'm worried about that, too.

[kgeaux]

This probably has nothing to do with this case as most of these women end up in other Middle Eastern countries. I just thought it was interesting.

http://www.irinnews.org/reporttest.aspx?ReportId=61903

This is nothing. There are cases of women who have been raped being flogged to death, strapped to the whipping post, because if they would have struggled more, they wouldn't have allowed themselves to be raped. Of mothers being condemned to be stoned to death. There are articles I've read that are so horrifying that I refuse to repeat them here, because I don't want anyone else to have the nightmares I've had.

Although the Quran seems to treat women with some degree of kindness, in most Islamic societies they are chattel. As valuable as a stray dog----and they aren't fond of dogs, either.

THIS woman, however, that photo ups the ante. You don't take a picture of the stray dog you just kicked to death if you didn't put some value on that dog----or on the great pleasure it gave you to kick it. That photo was snapped, IMO, by someone who has murdered before. I just can't see a first time murderer snapping a photo of his victim. Taking her bracelet, sure, but snapping a picture just seems more "mature" in his calling than that.

[trixie]

I'm wondering where this photo was taken. If it was taken in the middle east, and they know that, then why are they looking for info on her here? If this photo was taken here in the USA maybe they looking at it as a "hate crime" since she is an Iraqi.

[SeriouslySearching]

We already knew they were decieving us when they said they "think she is injured." Yeah, right! So now I really think the robe is homemade and wasn't finished. And this could really be a very recent photo if it is from the middle east somewhere. I just wonder tho, if the sherriffs separtment KNOWS she Iraqi then how is it they don't know who she is? How in the world do they have the info they already have and not have it all?
Yes, I wondered about that, too. Are they maybe mistaken and going by the robe and the skin instead of actually 'knowing' she is Iraqi? Perhaps the reason the photo is cropped is due to Arabic writing on the bottom, as someone already mentioned tho.

Couldn't this have set off a whole international incident by posting that photo against the Geneva Convention treaty agreement by LE?! :eek:

[SeriouslySearching]

I'm wondering where this photo was taken. If it was taken in the middle east, and they know that, then why are they looking for info on her here? If this photo was taken here in the USA maybe they looking at it as a "hate crime" since she is an Iraqi.

If it were a hate crime, she wouldn't be dressed and posed, IMO.

[lizzybeth]

Even if they posed her in a degrading position? (in the bottom half of the picture?

Don't take that in a confrontational manner. I am just trying to learn all I can about what makes people think some murders are the work of a serial killer, first time murderer, boyfriend/husband, etc.

[trixie]

Even if they posed her in a degrading position? (in the bottom half of the picture?
Don't take that in a confrontational manner. I am just trying to learn all I can about what makes people think some murders are the work of a serial killer, first time murderer, boyfriend/husband, etc.

You know I never thought of that. This picture does appear to be cropped.

[SeriouslySearching]

Even if they posed her in a degrading position? (in the bottom half of the picture?

Don't take that in a confrontational manner. I am just trying to learn all I can about what makes people think some murders are the work of a serial killer, first time murderer, boyfriend/husband, etc.

Oh, I didn't take it a confrontational manner at all! I had thought about that scenario myself, but never mentioned it because it is possible. I didn't want to think about it I guess. I suppose you are right if that was the pose they had her placed in or worse. I was just thinking along the lines of her being Iraqi.

[docwho3]

There was something in the hair that worried me at first because it looked as if it was fixed into the scalp like some torture device (and seeing what appeared to be a wire running into the hair near the clip was only making it seem worse) but after careful consideration I think it was just a hair clip that was partly obscured by the hair.

There appears to be a string or stranded cord of some sort coming from the mouth. I do not know why it is there but the thoughts of the possibilities is not pleasant.

If the robe is middle eastern and the crime is related to morals from that part of the world then it is not terribly significant in pointing to the specific killer although it can indicate the crime might possibly be related to those of a certain heritage.

I dont want to jump to the conclusion of an honor killing because anyone can be the victim of the crime of murder regardless of heritage.

Having said that, it is allegedly (according to articles I read when researching the topic for a different case) not unheard of in honor killings for momentos of the honor killing to be sent back to the family. Sometimes it is body parts such as nose or ears, hands etc. Perhaps a picture had to suffice this time due to the long distance involved? Or then again this may have still been only a garden variety murder where the perp took a pic.

[trixie]

There was something in the hair that worried me at first because it looked as if it was fixed into the scalp like some torture device (and seeing what appeared to be a wire running into the hair near the clip was only making it seem worse) but after careful consideration I think it was just a hair clip that was partly obscured by the hair.
I don't see a hairclip. Can you be more specific?
There appears to be a string or stranded cord of some sort coming from the mouth. I do not know why it is there but the thoughts of the possibilities is not pleasant.
I think you may be seeing the whte threaded outline stiching on her robe in the background of her mouth
If the robe is middle eastern and the crime is related to morals from that part of the world then it is not terribly significant in pointing to the specific killer although it can indicate the crime might possibly be related to those of a certain heritage.

I dont want to jump to the conclusion of an honor killing because anyone can be the victim of the crime of murder regardless of heritage.

Having said that, it is allegedly (according to articles I read when researching the topic for a different case) not unheard of in honor killings for momentos of the honor killing to be sent back to the family. Sometimes it is body parts such as nose or ears, hands etc. Perhaps a picture had to suffice this time due to the long distance involved? Or then again this may have still been only a garden variety murder where the perp took a pic.

[docwho3]

. . .I don't see a hairclip. Can you be more specific?. . .
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/Doezz/ear3b.jpg

. . .I think you may be seeing the whte threaded outline stiching on her robe in the background of her mouth. . .
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/Doezz/mouth2.jpg

ETA: Some have referred to it as a worm coming from the mouth but it does not look like that to me. It looks like a stranded cord of some sort.

[SeriouslySearching]

The first could be clip or just a piece of the white cording. Nevermind about the second one...I see what you mean. Hmmm..I see where you are going with this. Could be.

[docwho3]

The first could be clip or just a piece of the white cording. Nevermind about the second one...I see what you mean. Hmmm..I see where you are going with this. Could be.
I circled the string. It is much large in diameter than the small robe threads, none of which are large enough to be seen individually even at this level of magnification.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/Doezz/mouth3.jpg

[Reannan]

docwho3, I am impressed with your software for examining these pictures! I am still not sure what to make of the "hair clip" or "rope" or whatever it is that is tangled in her head, but after studying doc's enlarged picture (which is much clearer than anything I could get that large), I think the thing in her mouth is a screw of some sort. Look at it! The concentric "lines" that others have mentioned are just too machine-tooled to be anything else. They even travel in a downward spiral like a screw. The "head" of the screw is a bit more difficult to make out, but I can see it. What do ya'll think? I don't even want to think about what it might mean.....but I will......

[KOOL LOOK]

I can't add much, but something I haven't seen mentioned, and I can't believe no one has is,

This white cord, rope whatever you want to call it, could very well be a devise used by the killer, or person prepping the body to pull her scalp, brain material and hair back into shape for whatever purpose to view.

I am on the side she was probably shot in the head from the left and exit wound being up in the area of the head where we see the exposed brain and hair mixed in blood.

Remember John F. Kennedy's assassination, when he was shot in the head Jackie jumped in back of the car grabbing part of his scalp that blew off?

We know the photo was staged for purposes of the photo, a gunshot probably ripped and tore this area open and needed to be bound back together.

[docwho3]

. . .We know the photo was staged for purposes of the photo, a gunshot probably ripped and tore this area open and needed to be bound back together. I have thought of the possibility that it might be a medical clip of some sort but I am unfamiliar with the device that would be used for such a purpose and hoped that a doctor or other professional with knowledge of such a clip or device might see it in my enlargement and speak up to enlighten us. I was a bit embarrassed about thinking it was a torture thing and so decided to err on the side of caution and only post it as being a hair clip. Whether it is a scalp holding device or merely a hair clip or a cord tie it does not seem to be a torture device as I first thought.:p

[trixie]

Thank you for clarifying that. I too am impressed with your software and your knowledge. However, I have to say, especially now that I've seen these things blown up and outlined on the screen that I still think that is white stitching on the robe and the other thing is a fly. I also don't see a hairclip, i just see hair. Anybody?

[KatK]

Why can't it be the sewn part of a hair extension, or glue from a hair extension? I don't know how likely that is since she's Iraqi though. Also, I think they try to match the color of the hair when sewing in a weave, don't they?

[teonspaleprincess]

I circled the string. It is much large in diameter than the small robe threads, none of which are large enough to be seen individually even at this level of magnification.
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/Doezz/mouth3.jpg

It still looks like a scab with a fly on it to me.

[kgeaux]

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/Doezz/ear3b.jpg


http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e232/docwho3/Doezz/mouth2.jpg

ETA: Some have referred to it as a worm coming from the mouth but it does not look like that to me. It looks like a stranded cord of some sort.

Good catch on the first one, but I think the second one is stitching on the collar of her robe. The stitching matches the pattern on the yoke of the robe.



AHH, I should have read furthur, doc. The "spot" you've circled has intrigued me. I don't think it's emanating from her mouth, I see it as being on her upper lip area. To me, it's either a scab....kinda a funny looking one because of the *line* formation, or a fly.....that was my first decision, but then the number of legs is all wrong, so it would be kinda a funny looking one, or it could be stitches. The black horizontal lines are relatively evenly spaced, looks like stitches to me.

[lizzybeth]

When I really concentrate on the pic of her mouth I do see something that looks like threads (as if on a screw). After looking at it for a while though it also seems like it could be stitches. Horizontal stitches. Notice that it looks puffy around the lines like maybe the lip is swollen.

[docwho3]

I think I will take a break from staring at the images for awhile. If you stare at them too long you can probably begin to think you see santa and all his elves in the pic - lol

As to someone mentioning a hair extension: It sounds interesting. I am willing to accept anything if we can compare it and agree. Does anyone have a pic of such a part of one that would show close up so we could see the similarity?

[lizzybeth]

I went back and looked at the total picture again. If you notice where the line of her forehead and hair meet...doesn't that look like too perfect a line. Like maybe someone parted the hair their purposely or maybe it is because of extensions. I wish I had a way of circling what I'm talking about. I know this is stereotypical but I wouldn't think of Middle Eastern women having extensions. They usually have such beautiful thick hair.

I wonder if LE has a name as they seem to know her ethnic background or nationality? Maybe they're only interested in who left the pic.

Well, maybe I should stop looking at it for a while too. It seems like every time someone says they see something I go back and look and I see it too. Even if two posts ago I didn't. I think I did see the elves but not Santa.

[docwho3]

. . .I wish I had a way of circling what I'm talking about. . . When viewing the image on the web: You can hit the print scrn key when viewing the pic. (This key is ususally on the upper right part of your keyboard.) This will save the image into memory (sort of like using the ctrl +C to copy text) although the computer will not give out any beeps or anything to let you know you saved the image into memory. Then you open windows paint and just paste the image into the paint program. Then you can circle image parts or otherwise edit the image. Then just save the image. If you have the option to save it as a .JPG file then its a good idea to do so but if not the image is still usable as a normal .BMP file.

If you have the image on your hard drive you can open it with windows paint and edit it that way and then save the edited version under a slightly different name than the original.

[Reannan]

I envy you guys who are seeing Santa and his Elves! :) I still see some sort of "device"! I have searched and learned more about screws, including dental screws and bone screws than I EVER wanted to know. The problem with it being a screw, however, is that the angle is wrong. I "head" of the screw appears to be seen "head-on" (hate the commercial), and I would expect it to be more angled given the angle the alleged screw would have entered her mouth or jaw. So......I am now seeing the "screw" as more of a piercing that has entered her lip from the left side of her face that we cannot see! AGHGHGH!!!!:confused: Where did Jaded go? I wish we had a bit more information......I am going insane!:crazy:

[docwho3]

If i can find it I will post a pic of some stranded string that I think will look similar. I once had some nylon fishing string (acual twist-stranded string) that I think looked similar in some ways but a screw or other object is possible too. I also have a shoe lace that looks a bit similar. I need to put a piece of both in my mouth in similar fashion and take a pic to see if the scale of size of the object looks like our victim pic. It may take me a day or so to find the fishing string if I still have it.

[cdt0283]

I think they removed the picture because they had OSBI edit it for public viewing. I don't think the local sheriff's dept ever meant to release the untouched photo. It really seemed quite graphic to release. I'm sure they posted it on their website before the OSBI edited it. Suprisingly, last time I checked they hadn't removed it from their server.

I found the original pic on their server. I wonder why they pulled the photo? Was there an article on their site about the picture at all?

[PSUfan]

I think I will take a break from staring at the images for awhile. If you stare at them too long you can probably begin to think you see santa and all his elves in the pic - lol

As to someone mentioning a hair extension: It sounds interesting. I am willing to accept anything if we can compare it and agree. Does anyone have a pic of such a part of one that would show close up so we could see the similarity?
I have to give you folks credit. I couldnt look for more than a few seconds, and the image haunted me. I would be a terrible detective.

I hope this one gets solved.

[Jaded]

I went back and looked at the total picture again. If you notice where the line of her forehead and hair meet...doesn't that look like too perfect a line. Like maybe someone parted the hair their purposely or maybe it is because of extensions. I wish I had a way of circling what I'm talking about. I know this is stereotypical but I wouldn't think of Middle Eastern women having extensions. They usually have such beautiful thick hair.

I wonder if LE has a name as they seem to know her ethnic background or nationality? Maybe they're only interested in who left the pic.

Well, maybe I should stop looking at it for a while too. It seems like every time someone says they see something I go back and look and I see it too. Even if two posts ago I didn't. I think I did see the elves but not Santa.

They do know where the picture came from and how it was obtained. It was taken in Iraq, date unknown. I'm not sure how the news site interpreted the information as they did - or if that was how it was presented to them, as I didn't see the original McClain County press release. Does anyone remember if the Sheriff's press release was the same as was reported by the media?

I haven't received an email back, but promise as soon as I do I'll let you know. I am just worried that if the information I was given is not known by the general public and it's not on their website, I would hate to impede their investigation IF the investigation is still active. I did pose that question to the Sheriff.

[cdt0283]

I've been using Photoshop for years and it really comes in handy when looking at small details or enhancing certain areas of a photo. I have PS CS but am looking for a free trial of Photoshop elements, a simplified version- but still very powerful software. If there are any areas you want enhanced for a closer look let me know.

When viewing the image on the web: You can hit the print scrn key when viewing the pic. (This key is ususally on the upper right part of your keyboard.) This will save the image into memory (sort of like using the ctrl +C to copy text) although the computer will not give out any beeps or anything to let you know you saved the image into memory. Then you open windows paint and just paste the image into the paint program. Then you can circle image parts or otherwise edit the image. Then just save the image. If you have the option to save it as a .JPG file then its a good idea to do so but if not the image is still usable as a normal .BMP file.

If you have the image on your hard drive you can open it with windows paint and edit it that way and then save the edited version under a slightly different name than the original.

[Reannan]

cdt0283, right now, the image I want enhanced is that thing coming out of her mouth.

[Reannan]

Thanks Jaded for all of your work, and for having contacted the sheriff's department. How on earth, did a murdered woman from Iraq end up with her picture at a small town gas station in Oklahoma?

[trixie]

They do know where the picture came from and how it was obtained. It was taken in Iraq, date unknown. I'm not sure how the news site interpreted the information as they did - or if that was how it was presented to them, as I didn't see the original McClain County press release. Does anyone remember if the Sheriff's press release was the same as was reported by the media?

I haven't received an email back, but promise as soon as I do I'll let you know. I am just worried that if the information I was given is not known by the general public and it's not on their website, I would hate to impede their investigation IF the investigation is still active. I did pose that question to the Sheriff.

Oh brother! I wish we had known that before! So just what information are they looking for anyway? This poor girl is long buried somewhere in Iraq, IMO.
So they know where it came from and how it was obtained!!!? And what did they want us to do, see if we recognize this woman? How would we??? Jeez.....!

[Jaded]

Oh brother! I wish we had known that before! So just what information are they looking for anyway? This poor girl is long buried somewhere in Iraq, IMO.
So they know where it came from and how it was obtained!!!? And what did they want us to do, see if we recognize this woman? How would we??? Jeez.....!

That's what I don't understand either, and if the investigation into this is active or if the information came forth after the press release.

[trixie]

That's what I don't understand either, and if the investigation into this is active or if the information came forth after the press release.

Well thank you anyway for all the information you gathered for us Jaded. I think this is a dead end road now. I'm just really stumped as to why they posted it and what they wanted from the public.

[T-Rex]

Wow, Jaded, you're really good!
Thanks!

[lizzybeth]

Does anyone else feel duped? I worried over this girl for days (not that she's not worthy of someone worrying over her now). Who she was, who did this to her and if we could somehow help. Now, they obviously know where the pic was taken and probably who she is. So what do they want from the public? Just to know who would have access to the pic; who would have dropped it there? Well, with no witnesses and no more information than we have and this girl being killed in Iraq I don't see how it's possible for anyone to know. Unless whoever had the pic in their possession confesses "hey it was mine. I purchased it in Iraq (I still don't understand why anyone would do that) and am not responsible for her death."

:waitasec::mad:

[Indy Gal]

Wow....thats all I have right now. I agree Lizzy, why do this....

[Reannan]

I think we should go a bit easy on LE because they may NOT have known who it was at first. The information about Iraq may have evolved after the posting. I suspect they removed the picture after the gained information. I don't think we were duped, and I for one, have learned A LOT!!! I know more about robes, bedspreads, and bone screws than I ever dreamed of knowing! I also have to say that it has been a valuable opportunity for me to learn and practice face recognition. I have often worried that the part of the brain that remembers faces is defective in my brain. I just don't remember what people look like! In this particular case, I have reduced the poor lady's face to minute grids and have compared those to countless missing people and unsolved murder cases in Oklahoma, Texas, and other areas of the US. I think I have benefited from this process because I now look at people's faces differently! Go figure. I also want to say, that I have benefited from this process from each of YOU. You guys are the greatest. I really mean that. With all of the horror that is obviously running amuk in the world, it is encouraging to know that there are still people who care. One other point, and I will shut up. My husband thinks I am ready for the looney bin with this stuff! He just doesn't get it. It is also nice to be connected to other SMART, wonderful people who are also TALENTED and gifted with INTELLIGENT analysis of a mystery....and who want to see crimes solved. Thank you all for being here.:blowkiss:

[txsvicki]

Thank you for clarifying that. I too am impressed with your software and your knowledge. However, I have to say, especially now that I've seen these things blown up and outlined on the screen that I still think that is white stitching on the robe and the other thing is a fly. I also don't see a hairclip, i just see hair. Anybody?

I have been seeing something squarish up in the back part of the hair. It doesn't look like anything that should be there unless it could be some sort of clip holding on one those clip on curly ponytails. I have no idea what those look like though.

[trixie]

Yes and well I guess it's time for full disclosure on my part.

My little sister was shot in the head and killed by her boyfriend in 1992. We never recovered her body. Maybe that's why this picture and story was so riviting to me. I don't know. Thank goodness he was stupid enough to call a buddy and show him my sisters body and ask him to help bury her. Of course,his "friend" says he said no and went on about his business. A few months later his "friend" got busted for drugs (again) and was looking at going to prison for 16 years. So of course then his "friend" said "If I give you some info about a murder I know about can I get some time off my sentence?" They said sure, if it all checks out. Thus he began to spill his guts about everything he had seen that night and all conversations that were had and fingering exactly who did it. My sisters boyfriend was convicted of second degree murder (even with no body) and is serving a 27 year sentence in Oregon State Prison. His "friend" got his sentence reduced by 6 years for his help and info. I think that is part of what drew me to this case so intently. I just wish we could have found her.

[cdt0283]

Trixie, I'm so sorry about your loss. I cannot even begin to imagine dealing with a tragedy like that. You are strong.

[trixie]

Well thank you. It happened a long time ago. I'm a little miffed about this case tho. Just what does LE want from the public? I fell like I was sent on a wild goose chase.

[trixie]

I think we should go a bit easy on LE because they may NOT have known who it was at first. The information about Iraq may have evolved after the posting. I suspect they removed the picture after the gained information. I don't think we were duped, and I for one, have learned A LOT!!! I know more about robes, bedspreads, and bone screws than I ever dreamed of knowing! I also have to say that it has been a valuable opportunity for me to learn and practice face recognition. I have often worried that the part of the brain that remembers faces is defective in my brain. I just don't remember what people look like! In this particular case, I have reduced the poor lady's face to minute grids and have compared those to countless missing people and unsolved murder cases in Oklahoma, Texas, and other areas of the US. I think I have benefited from this process because I now look at people's faces differently! Go figure. I also want to say, that I have benefited from this process from each of YOU. You guys are the greatest. I really mean that. With all of the horror that is obviously running amuk in the world, it is encouraging to know that there are still people who care. One other point, and I will shut up. My husband thinks I am ready for the looney bin with this stuff! He just doesn't get it. It is also nice to be connected to other SMART, wonderful people who are also TALENTED and gifted with INTELLIGENT analysis of a mystery....and who want to see crimes solved. Thank you all for being here.:blowkiss:

LOL! I think that is sooo funny! We all learned some new things I guess!

[docwho3]

This case has been one of those rare websleuths cases where computer skills and websearch skills could actually have some small sucesses to help move a case along. Some of you recognized the type of clothing as being of a certain style from a certain area of the world and others recognized the likely heritage of the victim. People put in alot of time looking up screws and fasteners and clips and threads and strings and even looking up stains and impressions that showed up through the back of the image in some cases. We started with one doctored picture and got hold of a better version and now have two examples to look at to remember what tell tale things show up visually when a pic has been altered (apart from looking at the raw numbers in the file data) and that can help in a future case. And even though we may not hear about it any time soon this case may not be over even if it moves across borders. And we kept the case in the public eye online by just talking about it.

And I noticed that no one was defending a suspect just to satisfy a gut hunch and no one was attacking any suspect on the same flimsy sort of whim but everyone seemed intent on hunting for facts and to understand and correctly interpret the few facts we had to work with. Everyones thoughts were heard and thoughtfully considered. I feel proud to have been a small part of the group.

Sometimes I learn very much from the mistakes I make in a case. I remember I once learned not to assume that L.E. searches for bodies or cars are perfect. I once learned the hard way that even after several searches and years of time they missed a whole van with 2 dead occupants in about 11 feet of water. On another case I learned that the official guestimate on how long someone has been dead can be off by many years and I had to learn in this case to not let a spooky image cause me to look for an extraordinary explanation when a more simple one will do. I have long known of the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) protocol but this pic with its possibilities of torture had me overly concerned. I am glad someone here reminded me to keep it simple.

I can see where L.E. felt they needed to investigate this image and why and how it was left behind to be found.

If nothing else this case so far was mentally a good stretch of the legs.

[trixie]

Good post! I think Jaded is still waiting to hear more back from the sheriffs dept. so we may learn more about her yet. Nice sleuthin' with ya! (That sounds kinda dirty doesn't it?) lol!

[txsvicki]

I'm sorry to hear for sure that the girl is deceased. She was so beautiful. I hope we are able to learn what happened to her. Since the sheriff said it was homicide, then I suppose that leaves out being a casuality of the bombing that is going on over in Iraq or a suicide. I'd also like to know how LE now knows those details. Hopefully some worker or soldier over there found the pic and kept it without somehow being involved.

[philamena]

Yes and well I guess it's time for full disclosure on my part.

My little sister was shot in the head and killed by her boyfriend in 1992. We never recovered her body. Maybe that's why this picture and story was so riviting to me. I don't know. Thank goodness he was stupid enough to call a buddy and show him my sisters body and ask him to help bury her. Of course,his "friend" says he said no and went on about his business. A few months later his "friend" got busted for drugs (again) and was looking at going to prison for 16 years. So of course then his "friend" said "If I give you some info about a murder I know about can I get some time off my sentence?" They said sure, if it all checks out. Thus he began to spill his guts about everything he had seen that night and all conversations that were had and fingering exactly who did it. My sisters boyfriend was convicted of second degree murder (even with no body) and is serving a 27 year sentence in Oregon State Prison. His "friend" got his sentence reduced by 6 years for his help and info. I think that is part of what drew me to this case so intently. I just wish we could have found her.
Sincere hugs, healing thoughts and prayers to you trixie. I am so sorry. :(

[philamena]

You all have done alot of armchair detective work. I went back and read the last 3 pages...can someone tell me who said this beautiful young woman was killed in Iraq? Something doesn't pass the smell test about this. There is no way LE in the USA would run a picture of an American wounded/killed in Iraq. NO way. Or am I wayyyyy off?

[czechmate7]

I'm sorry to hear for sure that the girl is deceased. She was so beautiful. I hope we are able to learn what happened to her. Since the sheriff said it was homicide, then I suppose that leaves out being a casuality of the bombing that is going on over in Iraq or a suicide. I'd also like to know how LE now knows those details. Hopefully some worker or soldier over there found the pic and kept it without somehow being involved.
I posted this earlier, but when I was in Kuwait and Bahrain it was nothing to be able to purchase pictures of deceased people. Vendors along the street or little nic-nac stores sold them on racks like postcards. It's not like they have police and detectives trying to solve every murder in that part of the world (especially not a crime against a woman). I would bet a service member did purchase this particular photo..

Trixie~ I'm so sorry to hear about your loss...prayers and hugs to you..

[trixie]

Thank you Philamena and Czechmate7.

[docwho3]

. . .My sisters boyfriend was convicted of second degree murder (even with no body) . . . Is there a WS thread for the case? And if not do you want to start one to try and figure where the remains are? I mean it could be pretty awful to consider some of the things that might have been done to the body to make it disappear. Burial is the nicest of the possibilities. Discussing such things or "hearing" them discussed when it hits so close to home might make you feel bad.

[philamena]

This case has been one of those rare websleuths cases where computer skills and websearch skills could actually have some small sucesses to help move a case along. Some of you recognized the type of clothing as being of a certain style from a certain area of the world and others recognized the likely heritage of the victim. People put in alot of time looking up screws and fasteners and clips and threads and strings and even looking up stains and impressions that showed up through the back of the image in some cases. We started with one doctored picture and got hold of a better version and now have two examples to look at to remember what tell tale things show up visually when a pic has been altered (apart from looking at the raw numbers in the file data) and that can help in a future case. And even though we may not hear about it any time soon this case may not be over even if it moves across borders. And we kept the case in the public eye online by just talking about it.

And I noticed that no one was defending a suspect just to satisfy a gut hunch and no one was attacking any suspect on the same flimsy sort of whim but everyone seemed intent on hunting for facts and to understand and correctly interpret the few facts we had to work with. Everyones thoughts were heard and thoughtfully considered. I feel proud to have been a small part of the group.

Sometimes I learn very much from the mistakes I make in a case. I remember I once learned not to assume that L.E. searches for bodies or cars are perfect. I once learned the hard way that even after several searches and years of time they missed a whole van with 2 dead occupants in about 11 feet of water. On another case I learned that the official guestimate on how long someone has been dead can be off by many years and I had to learn in this case to not let a spooky image cause me to look for an extraordinary explanation when a more simple one will do. I have long known of the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) protocol but this pic with its possibilities of torture had me overly concerned. I am glad someone here reminded me to keep it simple.

I can see where L.E. felt they needed to investigate this image and why and how it was left behind to be found.

If nothing else this case so far was mentally a good stretch of the legs.
docwho3,
What a wonderfully thoughtful post! I'm going to say thank you. ;)

[trixie]

Is there a WS thread for the case? And if not do you want to start one to try and figure where the remains are? I mean it could be pretty awful to consider some of the things that might have been done to the body to make it disappear. Burial is the nicest of the possibilities. Discussing such things or "hearing" them discussed when it hits so close to home might make you feel bad.

Actually it happened so long ago I don't really think there is anything left to be found. His "friend" told him to take her down to " Germantown Road" and bury her out there so who knows if that's what he did or not. I don't know if you've ever been to the Portland Oregon area but it is very beautiful and very vegetative and dense. The police did take a cadaver dog down Germantown Rd. but they came up empty. My mother went out there and took pictures of the area during the trial. There's no way anyone would ever be found. BTW he did ask his "friend" to bring him some lye. So I sincerely doubt there is anything left at all to be found. Thanks so much for the condolences tho.

[txsvicki]

I posted this earlier, but when I was in Kuwait and Bahrain it was nothing to be able to purchase pictures of deceased people. Vendors along the street or little nic-nac stores sold them on racks like postcards. It's not like they have police and detectives trying to solve every murder in that part of the world (especially not a crime against a woman). I would bet a service member did purchase this particular photo..

Trixie~ I'm so sorry to hear about your loss...prayers and hugs to you..

Who are the people buying these photos? You'd think our people serving and working there have already seen so much death. A friend working over there spoke to us yesterday and one of his co workers was blown up the other day while running for the bomb shelter. Hopefully it's the locals buying the things.

[czechmate7]

Who are the people buying these photos? You'd think our people serving and working there have already seen so much death. A friend working over there spoke to us yesterday and one of his co workers was blown up the other day while running for the bomb shelter. Hopefully it's the locals buying the things.
txsvicki...believe it or not there are many American soliders that are young and think these photos are "cool" souvenirs. All this killing is a way of life over there. Also, they treat their women like dirt. They still believe in the woman walking 3 steps behind the man. A woman can be sentenced to death for having an affair...it's just so different you wouldn't believe.

[jacobean]

There was something in the hair that worried me at first because it looked as if it was fixed into the scalp like some torture device (and seeing what appeared to be a wire running into the hair near the clip was only making it seem worse) but after careful consideration I think it was just a hair clip that was partly obscured by the hair.

There appears to be a string or stranded cord of some sort coming from the mouth. I do not know why it is there but the thoughts of the possibilities is not pleasant.

If the robe is middle eastern and the crime is related to morals from that part of the world then it is not terribly significant in pointing to the specific killer although it can indicate the crime might possibly be related to those of a certain heritage.

I dont want to jump to the conclusion of an honor killing because anyone can be the victim of the crime of murder regardless of heritage.

Having said that, it is allegedly (according to articles I read when researching the topic for a different case) not unheard of in honor killings for momentos of the honor killing to be sent back to the family. Sometimes it is body parts such as nose or ears, hands etc. Perhaps a picture had to suffice this time due to the long distance involved? Or then again this may have still been only a garden variety murder where the perp took a pic.

Im afraid to say that one of my first thoughts was also honour killing, but after Banaz Mahmoud in the UK, i didnt know if that was influencing me...i kinda didnt want to make the assumption just because i thought she looked asian/ middle eastern. But i certainly think its a possibility....

I also took a look at the link posted by Lizzybeth, ive seen alot of these sort of articles on human trafficking and the stop honour killings website, but if you look at the pic thats on this article, the bed and the blankets, it looks the same style furniture etc, so i think the pic was taken in Iraq/ middle east.

[lizzybeth]

Trixie, I'm so sorry about your sister and what you and your family had to go through. So all if this had a special meaning to you. I'm not sure if I should say this or not but I believe when someone passes that they're soul or spirit is all around those that loved them. My dad is buried in a cemetary plot but he's with me all the time. When I hear birds sing or feel a really nice breeze on a summer day (we've needed those breezes lately), that's my dad. So even though I know it's hard not knowing where her body is, your sister, what made her her, is with you and your family everyday. I'm really not very good with words but I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.
God bless you and your family.

[christine2448]

You all have done alot of armchair detective work. I went back and read the last 3 pages...can someone tell me who said this beautiful young woman was killed in Iraq? Something doesn't pass the smell test about this. There is no way LE in the USA would run a picture of an American wounded/killed in Iraq. NO way. Or am I wayyyyy off?


Thank you philamena. I have followed this thread from the start.

I totally missed some how the post that states this girl is from Iraq. I am so very confused.

I also questioned the 'robe', I don't think it's a robe, I think it maybe bedsheets.....but the conversation suddenly turned to focus on Iraq and I am just lost.

I understand Jaded contacted LE is wtg info...but where did this other stuff come in.

It makes no sense they would put her pic up and ask public to help identify if she was not even from here, someone, please explain to those of us who are lost here.

[SewingDeb]

Thank you philamena. I have followed this thread from the start.

I totally missed some how the post that states this girl is from Iraq. I am so very confused.

I also questioned the 'robe', I don't think it's a robe, I think it maybe bedsheets.....but the conversation suddenly turned to focus on Iraq and I am just lost.

I understand Jaded contacted LE is wtg info...but where did this other stuff come in.

It makes no sense they would put her pic up and ask public to help identify if she was not even from here, someone, please explain to those of us who are lost here.


I could be wrong but I think the police had no idea who she was when they posted the picture and a tip has come in since their request that says she is from Iraq.

[philamena]

Thank you philamena. I have followed this thread from the start.

I totally missed some how the post that states this girl is from Iraq. I am so very confused.

I also questioned the 'robe', I don't think it's a robe, I think it maybe bedsheets.....but the conversation suddenly turned to focus on Iraq and I am just lost.

I understand Jaded contacted LE is wtg info...but where did this other stuff come in.

It makes no sense they would put her pic up and ask public to help identify if she was not even from here, someone, please explain to those of us who are lost here.

Hey Christine!
I was a bit confused too. I reread much of the thread and found out that the picture of our JaneDoe was reported to be the picture of someone killed in Iraq. I was very confused about a US sheriffs office asking for help identifying her. I understand it a little more clearly now. ;)

[Reannan]

SewingDeb is correct. I do not believe LE originally knew the girl was from Iraq. As I stated earlier, I found this case to have been very beneficial as a learning tool for myself. I was talking to someone at lunch about how obsessed I have been, and that really, the more you investigate this stuff, the better you get at it. Armchair detectives will NEVER replace the real thing, but I think there is some validity to the dynamic exchange of thoughts and ideas combined with multiple people searching the net for information that can add value to current and cold cases. This case would actually be a good one for illustrating the process.....all we had to start with was a retouched photograph, and in a fairly short time, the group had come to conclude (thanks to Jacobean?? - I think is who first mentioned it) that she was possibly of Middle Eastern descent - because of possible threaded eyebrows. From that thought, someone else....was it you Jaded???.....found a similar clothing garment from the Middle East called a throbe. Now, I hope we hear "the rest of the story" as Paul Harvey would have stated.

[trixie]

Trixie, I'm so sorry about your sister and what you and your family had to go through. So all if this had a special meaning to you. I'm not sure if I should say this or not but I believe when someone passes that they're soul or spirit is all around those that loved them. My dad is buried in a cemetary plot but he's with me all the time. When I hear birds sing or feel a really nice breeze on a summer day (we've needed those breezes lately), that's my dad. So even though I know it's hard not knowing where her body is, your sister, what made her her, is with you and your family everyday. I'm really not very good with words but I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to say.
God bless you and your family.


Lizzybeth thank you. I believe what you believe.

[trixie]

Thank you philamena. I have followed this thread from the start.

I totally missed some how the post that states this girl is from Iraq. I am so very confused.
I also questioned the 'robe', I don't think it's a robe, I think it maybe bedsheets.....but the conversation suddenly turned to focus on Iraq and I am just lost.

I understand Jaded contacted LE is wtg info...but where did this other stuff come in.

It makes no sense they would put her pic up and ask public to help identify if she was not even from here, someone, please explain to those of us who are lost here.

Hi there! Go back to page 16 and Jaded's post 393 and you will discover how we know she is from Iraq.

[kgeaux]

This case has been one of those rare websleuths cases where computer skills and websearch skills could actually have some small sucesses to help move a case along. Some of you recognized the type of clothing as being of a certain style from a certain area of the world and others recognized the likely heritage of the victim. People put in alot of time looking up screws and fasteners and clips and threads and strings and even looking up stains and impressions that showed up through the back of the image in some cases. We started with one doctored picture and got hold of a better version and now have two examples to look at to remember what tell tale things show up visually when a pic has been altered (apart from looking at the raw numbers in the file data) and that can help in a future case. And even though we may not hear about it any time soon this case may not be over even if it moves across borders. And we kept the case in the public eye online by just talking about it.

And I noticed that no one was defending a suspect just to satisfy a gut hunch and no one was attacking any suspect on the same flimsy sort of whim but everyone seemed intent on hunting for facts and to understand and correctly interpret the few facts we had to work with. Everyones thoughts were heard and thoughtfully considered. I feel proud to have been a small part of the group.

Sometimes I learn very much from the mistakes I make in a case. I remember I once learned not to assume that L.E. searches for bodies or cars are perfect. I once learned the hard way that even after several searches and years of time they missed a whole van with 2 dead occupants in about 11 feet of water. On another case I learned that the official guestimate on how long someone has been dead can be off by many years and I had to learn in this case to not let a spooky image cause me to look for an extraordinary explanation when a more simple one will do. I have long known of the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) protocol but this pic with its possibilities of torture had me overly concerned. I am glad someone here reminded me to keep it simple.

I can see where L.E. felt they needed to investigate this image and why and how it was left behind to be found.

If nothing else this case so far was mentally a good stretch of the legs.

You are right, doc. We have learned alot, honed some skills, and the discussion really has been geared toward identifying this young girl. We all managed to put aside our egos, we stayed calm when our "pet" theories were questioned, and you know what? We did GOOD.

We took a photo from some tiny town in Okalahoma and narrowed the victim down to a girl of Middle Eastern descent. We identified her robe as a "thobe." We have some sharp, sharp people here at websleuths, and I have enjoyed "working" with all of you!

We may be no closer to knowing who killed her, but I am comforted more than you might guess to know that she is identified, that she is probably resting in peace in her tomb right now instead of being scattered bones in a desert, with relatives crying themselves to sleep at night wondering where she is, is she OK? I am glad beyond measure that she has a name, even if it is not known to me.

I also am not convinced this was all in vain, sleuthers. Somebody murdered that poor girl. That photo showed up in Oklahoma, not Iraq.....somebody carried that picture over here. It doesn't look like a photo of a "friendly fire" victim to me. It looks posed------she looks like she suffered before her death. Whoever harmed this girl, he'll do it again. If it is an Iraqi male who has come to USA or if it is an American soldier who harmed her, he will do it again. He needs to be caught.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think we should go a bit easy on LE because they may NOT have known who it was at first. The information about Iraq may have evolved after the posting. I suspect they removed the picture after the gained information. I don't think we were duped, and I for one, have learned A LOT!!! I know more about robes, bedspreads, and bone screws than I ever dreamed of knowing! I also have to say that it has been a valuable opportunity for me to learn and practice face recognition. I have often worried that the part of the brain that remembers faces is defective in my brain. I just don't remember what people look like! In this particular case, I have reduced the poor lady's face to minute grids and have compared those to countless missing people and unsolved murder cases in Oklahoma, Texas, and other areas of the US. I think I have benefited from this process because I now look at people's faces differently! Go figure. I also want to say, that I have benefited from this process from each of YOU. You guys are the greatest. I really mean that. With all of the horror that is obviously running amuk in the world, it is encouraging to know that there are still people who care. One other point, and I will shut up. My husband thinks I am ready for the looney bin with this stuff! He just doesn't get it. It is also nice to be connected to other SMART, wonderful people who are also TALENTED and gifted with INTELLIGENT analysis of a mystery....and who want to see crimes solved. Thank you all for being here.:blowkiss:
I agree with everything you said...except I feel duped that OSBI wasn't honest about her being dead from the begining and misleading the public in the first place. I believe they probably did learn the information after publishing the photo and the reason they took it down...but again...OSBI must have not gotten the memo. Either way, I am glad they have at least halfway identified her.

It was a good learning experience for all of us, IMO. Probably the only time we will be able to study a photo such as this one and research it. I admit I made some critical errors on this and I learned some great lessons from it. (I am glad now it wasn't TC and maybe there is still hope to find her someday.) I think everyone did some extensive research and put a lot of time and effort into this. It was excellent! There are some remarkably talented and intelligent people on WS! LE has nothing on WS! LOL They would only be so lucky to find a team to work so diligently and with so many excellent ideas to follow up on.

As horrific as this poor girl's picture is, I felt studying it was actually giving us a true shot of helping her which we don't get the chance to do. We usually are given clues gleaned from LE by round about sources and leaks to the media. We would never be privy to photos of this nature.

I see what LE CAN learn from us! We are a viable source of information and they should take advantage of WS as being such.

I applaud everyone working on this photo. It was a tough one, but we had a few that 'cracked' part of what we had to go on! WTG! Maybe we will eventually get another such case someday.

(*Note-My grandmother's and great aunt's robes did come from a shop frequented by many people around here! It was called Maussad's and was a Lebanese lingerie store! I never knew, but I knew I had seen many of them. LOL It confused me a lot!)

[kgeaux]

They do know where the picture came from and how it was obtained. It was taken in Iraq, date unknown. I'm not sure how the news site interpreted the information as they did - or if that was how it was presented to them, as I didn't see the original McClain County press release. Does anyone remember if the Sheriff's press release was the same as was reported by the media?

I haven't received an email back, but promise as soon as I do I'll let you know. I am just worried that if the information I was given is not known by the general public and it's not on their website, I would hate to impede their investigation IF the investigation is still active. I did pose that question to the Sheriff.

Jaded, when you say they know "how it was obtained" do you mean that LE knows who took the photo? They know how it got to USA, at a gas station in OK? Or by "obtained" do you mean that it is known that the picture was discovered at the gas station?

[Coriess]

This woman's photo has haunted me since the story started. I am so impressed with everyone's input.

When discussing the fact that she was dressed after she was killed - I agree. I also agree that if her clothing were changed after the time of death there would be staining and such on the shirt/robe covering - (since this is my first posting with a hypothesis I'm a little nervous! lol) - is it possible that instead of putting the clothing on her traditionally the robe itself is split up the back, making it possible to lay it over her like a sheet, and then just put her ams into the sleeves? Sort of like the old-time western pictures one can pose for...all the garb laces up in the back. It would make it very easy to "put on" a person that is lifeless. Once the arms are in the sleeves , our victim could have been posed, and then the edges (what would be the back of the robe) tucked under her to make it look like a normal garment?

[kgeaux]

(*Note-My grandmother's and great aunt's robes did come from a shop frequented by many people around here! It was called Maussad's and was a Lebanese lingerie store! I never knew, but I knew I had seen many of them. LOL It confused me a lot!)


Oh, wow! Your gramma and great aunts actually WERE wearing thobes!!! You said they were very similar! WTG, Searching!

[Jaded]

Jaded, when you say they know "how it was obtained" do you mean that LE knows who took the photo? They know how it got to USA, at a gas station in OK? Or by "obtained" do you mean that it is known that the picture was discovered at the gas station?

They know who dropped the photo and how it made it's way to the US. I have shared with a few people in PM the email. If they would like they can PM the info to others. I just don't want to put it out in public just in case this is an ongoing investigation. To those who are in the know, feel free to PM your fellow members and fill them in.

I do have a few more questions of the Sheriff and am waiting to receive an email back from him. Once I have an all clear that this is not an ongoing investigation, I'll post it out here on the board.

[czechmate7]

They know who dropped the photo and how it made it's way to the US. I have shared with a few people in PM the email. If they would like they can PM the info to others. I just don't want to put it out in public just in case this is an ongoing investigation. To those who are in the know, feel free to PM your fellow members and fill them in.

I do have a few more questions of the Sheriff and am waiting to receive an email back from him. Once I have an all clear that this is not an ongoing investigation, I'll post it out here on the board.

I would like to know how the photo was obtained if anyone in the know could please PM me....thanks!

[Coriess]

They know who dropped the photo and how it made it's way to the US. I have shared with a few people in PM the email. If they would like they can PM the info to others. I just don't want to put it out in public just in case this is an ongoing investigation. To those who are in the know, feel free to PM your fellow members and fill them in.

I do have a few more questions of the Sheriff and am waiting to receive an email back from him. Once I have an all clear that this is not an ongoing investigation, I'll post it out here on the board.

Thank you so much! I am going nuts! Feel free to send me a PM if you have the time, I'd really really like to know more.

Thanks again.

[SeriouslySearching]

This woman's photo has haunted me since the story started. I am so impressed with everyone's input.

When discussing the fact that she was dressed after she was killed - I agree. I also agree that if her clothing were changed after the time of death there would be staining and such on the shirt/robe covering - (since this is my first posting with a hypothesis I'm a little nervous! lol) - is it possible that instead of putting the clothing on her traditionally the robe itself is split up the back, making it possible to lay it over her like a sheet, and then just put her ams into the sleeves? Sort of like the old-time western pictures one can pose for...all the garb laces up in the back. It would make it very easy to "put on" a person that is lifeless. Once the arms are in the sleeves , our victim could have been posed, and then the edges (what would be the back of the robe) tucked under her to make it look like a normal garment?
Glad you posted! Yes, this could be possible. He could have just covered her up to take the photo and it might make sense it was tucked around her.

[lizzybeth]

I hope we do learn more about this girl. Thank you Jaded for keeping us posted on what you learn.

I can't seem to get it out of my head that they actually sell photos like this in the Middle East. I had a friend stationed there and he made it clear NOT to send him any magazines that had women in bathing suits or any nudity. He was a surfer so he wasn't able to receive any surfing magazines because the women in bathing suits would be offensive to the Middle Eastern people but pictures like this are okay, wanted, bought and sold?

[czechmate7]

I hope we do learn more about this girl. Thank you Jaded for keeping us posted on what you learn.

I can't seem to get it out of my head that they actually sell photos like this in the Middle East. I had a friend stationed there and he made it clear NOT to send him any magazines that had women in bathing suits or any nudity. He was a surfer so he wasn't able to receive any surfing magazines because the women in bathing suits would be offensive to the Middle Eastern people but pictures like this are okay, wanted, bought and sold?
Lizzy~ I spent almost 5 months in the Middle East and was not able to wear shorts and had to wear long sleeve shirts...in 100+ temps the entire time I was there (unless I was on the military compound) because women can not show any "skin". Their culture is quite disrespectful to women; I stated earlier that you always saw the woman walk behind the man......basically they should not be seen or heard. It's very sad.

[Coriess]

I hope we do learn more about this girl. Thank you Jaded for keeping us posted on what you learn.

I can't seem to get it out of my head that they actually sell photos like this in the Middle East. I had a friend stationed there and he made it clear NOT to send him any magazines that had women in bathing suits or any nudity. He was a surfer so he wasn't able to receive any surfing magazines because the women in bathing suits would be offensive to the Middle Eastern people but pictures like this are okay, wanted, bought and sold?

It makes my stomach churn to know that there is a market for such a horrible thing - or that a human mind can find these images appealing. I can totally understand how bathing suit images could be offensive to Middle Eastern culture. However, I do not understand how images of death and violence are not...

[Masterj]

Thank you so much! I am going nuts! Feel free to send me a PM if you have the time, I'd really really like to know more.

Thanks again.

I would also like to know, please PM me. Thank you.

[Sheromom]

Can someone PM me, too, PLEASE?! This one has me absolutely addicted!!!!

[2luvmy]

Me too, me too. I wann know too!

I have been slave to summer school college coursework and during my breaks I have been stopping in here late at night to check out the progress you all had made.

[snarkymalarkey]

Could somebody PM me too?

[Kellee]

:doh: OK........I'll wait patiently until Jaded gets the OK to publish the full story.






Unless someone REALLY wants to PM me with the scoop!:angel:

[texasgirl]

:doh: OK........I'll wait patiently until Jaded gets the OK to publish the full story.






Unless someone REALLY wants to PM me with the scoop!:angel:

I second that! I've been trying to be patient as not to bother anyone but I'm so behind!! :)

[s_finch]

Yep, I'd like a pm myself. TIA!

And good work everyone, especially Jaded!

[annemc2]

Oh please PM me, too - I'm dyin' ovah heah!!

[cdt0283]

Same please.


This woman's photo has haunted me since the story started. I am so impressed with everyone's input.

When discussing the fact that she was dressed after she was killed - I agree. I also agree that if her clothing were changed after the time of death there would be staining and such on the shirt/robe covering - (since this is my first posting with a hypothesis I'm a little nervous! lol) - is it possible that instead of putting the clothing on her traditionally the robe itself is split up the back, making it possible to lay it over her like a sheet, and then just put her ams into the sleeves? Sort of like the old-time western pictures one can pose for...all the garb laces up in the back. It would make it very easy to "put on" a person that is lifeless. Once the arms are in the sleeves , our victim could have been posed, and then the edges (what would be the back of the robe) tucked under her to make it look like a normal garment?

Oh please PM me, too - I'm dyin' ovah heah!!

[dkeene8]

please pm me too! i can't wait!

thanks :)

[teonspaleprincess]

Yeah, add me to the PM list!!

[Indy Gal]

They know who dropped the photo and how it made it's way to the US. I have shared with a few people in PM the email. If they would like they can PM the info to others. I just don't want to put it out in public just in case this is an ongoing investigation. To those who are in the know, feel free to PM your fellow members and fill them in.

I do have a few more questions of the Sheriff and am waiting to receive an email back from him. Once I have an all clear that this is not an ongoing investigation, I'll post it out here on the board.
With you saying it is okay....who needs a PM???

Thank you all for you teaching in this case. Although you may not know you have taught this girl a lot!!!:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

[OceanEyes]

I would like a PM too please...this is also driving me crazy!!

[txsvicki]

I would like to know how the photo was obtained if anyone in the know could please PM me....thanks!


Please PM me, too. Thank you.