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SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 03:25 PM
I thought it would be a better idea for us to discuss those cases here instead of on individual threads of missing/murdered women from WI.

Whether this is connected to the case or not - Madison has never solved a series of murders of young women from 1967-1984...

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/madison_wi/1.html

What IF...we are looking at a serial killing? Specifically...the killings taking place from 1968-84?

I just researched all the places they found those bodies and the similarities of the cases: Females, 17-24yo, 3+ had left bar area in Madison, most found in wooded areas, all with ties to UW, except 1...all found within 14 miles of Madison.

Sound familiar?
Kelly fits into the category above in several ways.

Might not be so farfetched actually. If the perp were a younger student back in 68...he would be in his mid/late 50s now. (Certainly not too old for a serial killer.)

It would also mean this investigation would have to be meticulously done if it is at all possible they could be related. I would think they would have to take everything into account. It might explain a lot of why this was handled with extra caution and under the huge umbrella of the different agencies.

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 03:27 PM
Here are more discussions from KN's thread:

I just through the serial murders out there as a possibility - my guess would be more as a copycat, and not necessarily the same guy.

The other similarity I see is the Dierdre Harm case. (See this same forum discussion.) Dierdre disappeared after a night of drinking in downtown Wisconsin Rapids (about 1 1/2 hours north of Madison). Her body was found months later in a secluded, wooded area. No suspects have been found, but police do have a sketch of a person of interest.Diedre Harm's Discussion: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44971 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44971)

If the perp were a young student back then...20 years could be spent raising a family, creating a bonified career, and becoming an outstanding member of the community. He could be a civic leader, a professor, a wealthy land developer, a teacher, a preacher, or even a dog catcher. ;)

Maybe there wasn't a 20 year cooling off period. The perp could have moved during that time and continued elsewhere. (The last known killing in '84 was far north of the rest and out his comfort zone which I thought was quite different.)

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 03:29 PM
I keep going back to review the serial killings from 68-84. I wish I could find more information on them.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/madison_wi/1.html

I know I have said this before, but Kelly's case fits too well. It also fits the cases of Sarah Gonstead, Diedra Hall (except her location), and Angela Drake. It makes me wonder how many more there could be out there.
http://www.truthinjustice.org/penny.htm http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/1106/2702_diedre_harm.html

The similarities I found in all the cases: Females, 17-24yo, 6+ had left bar area in Madison, most found in wooded areas, all with ties to UW, except 2...all found within 14 miles of Madison. 5 happened in early July and 5 in late spring. Out of all of those, 4 had been stabbed, no cod on 3, 1 blunt instrument,1 burned. Sarah was shot, but found near Mineral Point Road.

Here is what the coroner said in 1999:
Deputy Coroner David Scullion gave an interview to the Portage County Gazette in which he said, “I personally feel there are several similarities. The patterns are wooded areas, off the road aways in concealed area(s).”

It is also interesting to note that each victim was young, wore her hair long and parted it in the same manner -- eerily reminiscent of Ted Bundy’s victims -- and all of the victims were found within a short distance of Madison. In addition, they were all somehow associated with the University of Wisconsin either through classes, employment or living at a campus residence.

It’s not always clear that the murders have really stopped and the killer is not just in some cooling-off period or is perhaps disposing of the victims in a way that their remains will not be found. What is probably called for is a an additional two-pronged investigation to determine from missing persons’ reports whether the killer may still be active and covering up the evidence of his crimes and, if he is not determined to be active, what may account for the murders ending in November of 1984.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/madison_wi/4.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would say 3 full days on a crime scene going over every single inch of the grounds and soil would be expected. They already said it was multi-jurisdictional. They pulled out all the stops on this one with major forensic teams.

I have even found a suspect for them to take a serious look at. Remember, I said he could be mid/late 50s, raising a family, creating a bonified career, and becoming an outstanding member of the community. This person would have access, be in a trusted position, plus could have a motive related to the college. No one would have suspected him.
Suddenly Searching,
You can also look at how many college students 'males' that have suddenly drowned after a night of partying & leaving a bar in Wi.
It is very scarey to say the least.
This was the first mention I had heard of about the drownings.

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 03:30 PM
http://www.surroundedbyreality.com/Misc/Crimes/Crimes.asp

Under Christine Rothschild's case, it says she was the first victim of the Capital City serial killer.

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 03:32 PM
More on the drowing victims:
That entire area up there- Lake Michigan, Half Moon Lake, the Mississippi River, the Ohio, the Red Cedar - the list goes on and on. I still don't understand how LE can attribute them simply to intoxicated drowning accidents.

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 03:36 PM
More: I found another blip on a murdered UW-Baraboo/Saulk County girl name Inez Musch back in 1993. I can't find any related articles tho. She was found near campus in a wooded area. (This is only 44.3 miles/57 minutes away from Madison.)
http://www.madison.com/archives/simple_search.php?keyword_field=Serial%20Murders%2 0in%20Madison%20&pub_code_field=wsj%20tct&from_date_field=01/01/1968&to_date_field=07/15/2007&var_start_pos=10&var_articles_per_page=10 (http://www.madison.com/archives/simple_search.php?keyword_field=Serial%20Murders%2 0in%20Madison%20&pub_code_field=wsj%20tct&from_date_field=01/01/1968&to_date_field=07/15/2007&var_start_pos=10&var_articles_per_page=10)

Another mention of a rape/murder in 1987 upon leaving a Saulk City tavern named Angela Faye Hackl. She was 19. (This is 27.6 miles/35 mins. from Madison.)
http://www.madison.com/archives/simple_search.php?keyword_field=Serial%20Murders%2 0in%20Madison%20&pub_code_field=wsj%20tct&from_date_field=01/01/1968&to_date_field=07/15/2007&var_start_pos=30&var_articles_per_page=10

Another brutal assault/rape mentioned in 2004 plus an incident where a woman was slashed multiple times outside UWs Trip-Adams residence hall, but survived in '93. Her assailant was never found.:
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/tct/2004/06/11/0406110179.php

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 03:37 PM
Also something that's suspicious, at least to me. Someone in Madison claiming to have abducted Nyleen Kay Marshall.

http://www.channel3000.com/news/1555573/detail.html

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11732

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 03:38 PM
7-12-07 Another missing 21yo UW-Greenbay Coed (Mahalia Xiong) after a night of bowling and drinking: http://www.wrn.com/gestalt/go.cfm?ob...F79513E168D84B

Another Wisconsin College girl missing, Mahalia Xiong,21 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51457)

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 03:41 PM
Diedre Harm: Deidra Harm. She was 21.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal...arm/index.html (http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/diedre_harm/index.html)

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 03:43 PM
Here is another one: Laurie Jean Depies - Wisconsin - 1992 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51605)

And another that Calikid mentioned: I don't know if she's been discussed, but what about Becky Marie Marzo? She disappeared from Milwaukee December '03 after a night out with friends. Some of the details are different, and she's gone missing before. But she might fit the profile.

http://www.amw.com/missing_persons/case.cfm?id=46528 (My note* This one sounds like her boyfriend had something to do with it. She just found out she was pregnant and they had a rocky relationship to begin with.)

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 03:47 PM
Well, maybe Madison does have a problem. Here are some past unsolved murders/disappearances around Madison. Note that I referenced the last page of the article, since it mentions theories.

Christine Rothschild Madison stabbed 1968 age 18

Debra Bennett Madison (14 m) charred remains 1969 age 20

Julie Ann Hall Madison blunt trama (head) 1978 age 18

Julie Speerschneider Madison decomposed 1979 age 20

Susan LeMahieu Madison stabbed 1980 age 24

Shirley Stewart Madison decomposed 1981 age 17

Donna Mraz Madison stabbed 1982 age 19

Janet M. Raasch Madison (60m) decomposed 1984 age 20

"It is also interesting to note that each victim was young, wore her hair long and parted it in the same manner -- eerily reminiscent of Ted Bundy’s victims -- and all of the victims were found within a short distance of Madison. In addition, they were all somehow associated with the University of Wisconsin either through classes, employment or living at a campus residence."
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/madison_wi/4.html
This was posted earlier, but I decided to include it because it was lined out nicely. Thanks, Trino!

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 03:48 PM
I can't find much of anything on Inez or another unsolved WI murder, Mark Genna. That's odd to me.

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 03:50 PM
Moved: ok~what has happened since those dates? does it pick up now since 1998, Amber Wilde's unsolved murder to present?

Did he/she turn to drownings instead? Just a thought!

Great link, Thanks BrowneyedEmily!:
http://www.surroundedbyreality.com/M...mes/Crimes.asp (http://www.surroundedbyreality.com/Misc/Crimes/Crimes.asp)

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 03:51 PM
Do you have the link you could post here to Debra Bennet's murder?

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 03:52 PM
Do you have the link you could post here to Debra Bennet's murder?

It's on the surroundedbyreality site: http://www.surroundedbyreality.com/Misc/Crimes/DBMurder.asp. :)

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 03:53 PM
Moved: Another story....NBC26 Local News

Bad Memories for Family of Another Missing Student
Amber Wilde's family is reminded of their hardship

Rachel Stockman


Last week's news of Mahalia Xiong's disappearance hit the Wilde family especially hard. 19 year old Amber Wilde was pregnant when she vanished almost nine years ago. Shortly after she disappeared, police found her car, and suspect she was murdered. However, they still have not recovered her body.

Despite their hardship, the Wilde family encourages the Xiong's to never give up hope.

Click on "video" for a live report from NBC26 LIVE AT 10:00.

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 04:04 PM
If I have missed your post...please feel free to move it here! I tried to go back and grab them all. : )

cheko1
07-23-2007, 04:20 PM
Thanks SS & Everyone you all did good!!!!

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 04:23 PM
yes, thank you SS!! It's good to have it all in one place, and you're doing research very well

KR2tonenow
07-23-2007, 08:11 PM
Now we need to place the dates by the names, but it looks like it has been pretty continous since 1968.

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 08:13 PM
It makes sense to have them all together. I will try to work on that, KR2. LOL

KR2tonenow
07-23-2007, 08:16 PM
Also something that's suspicious, at least to me. Someone in Madison claiming to have abducted Nyleen Kay Marshall.

http://www.channel3000.com/news/1555573/detail.html

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11732

I saw the photo of this abducted child and oddly she looks like the others!:confused:, I agree could very well be a connection!

Salem
07-23-2007, 08:17 PM
I know it is a long shot, but I would like to see Dail Dinwiddie added to this list. The MO surrounding her disappearance is very similar to what we are seeing with these other women.

I think at a minimum it should be looked at, and if there is good reason, then discounted.

Salem

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 08:21 PM
Do you have any links on Dail?

KR2tonenow
07-23-2007, 08:21 PM
It makes sense to have them all together. I will try to work on that, KR2. LOL

Wasn't there a quote about some city official saying in Florida that they were having serial killings at a university down there, and he was very outspoken about it, then it went cold...

Would be interesting to see if the missing dates jive with Florida.
Just a thought!:dance:

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 08:23 PM
We can certainly take a look, KR2. I thought they found their serial killer in the Florida cases tho.

Mysticchic
07-23-2007, 08:25 PM
An other thing is Madison and Greenbay are all connected to Milwaukee by 3 highways 43, 41 and 94. The person could be working out of Milwaukee and make these easy trips the other cities.
Did anyone think of the fact (depending on the dates) that there are alot of vaction homes in The Dells. very quick drive to madison.

cheko1
07-23-2007, 08:27 PM
I just received a reply from Greta about her show tonight!!!! It says:

It sure is weird ( that 2 are missing & 1 dead) in such a short period of time. greta

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 08:27 PM
An other thing is Madison and Greenbay are all connected to Milwaukee by 3 highways 43, 41 and 94. The person could be working out of Milwaukee and make these easy trips the other cities.
Did anyone think of the fact (depending on the dates) that there are alot of vaction homes in The Dells. very quick drive to madison.

I hadn't thought of that - I didn't know it was so well-connected! But that is what some researchers have speculated, that if it is a serial killer it's probably a traveler, like a truck driver or a traveling salesman. I agree, getting the dates and places together would be a really good way of looking at it.

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 08:33 PM
I just received a reply from Greta about her show tonight!!!! It says:

It sure is weird ( that 2 are missing & 1 dead) in such a short period of time. greta

Great! Now maybe they need to relate the OTHER missing/murdered women to those 3! (Does Greta know about all the rest I wonder?!)

cheko1
07-23-2007, 08:35 PM
Great! Now maybe they need to relate the OTHER missing/murdered women to those 3! (Does Greta know about all the rest I wonder?!)


I just sent her another email telling her to come here & check it out.

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 08:35 PM
One thing that connected the dots on the earlier murders to Kelly, Angela, and others were all except two were found within 14 miles of Madison. Another strange thing I noted...none were located on the Middleton side of Madison which makes me question if this could be the area the perp is from.

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 08:37 PM
I just sent her another email telling her to come here & check it out. :dance:
I knew you would. ;)

cheko1
07-23-2007, 08:38 PM
One thing that connected the dots on the earlier murders was that they were all except one found within 14 miles of Madison. Another strange thing I noted...none were located on the Middleton side of Madison which makes me question if this could be the area the perp is from.


Thats what did it for me too SS. Once you start reading you see the dotted lines.

cheko1
07-23-2007, 08:39 PM
Probably won't be before her show airs.....

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 08:43 PM
The thing that makes me really think there's a serial killer is in the Debra Bennett case, how her hotel key was sent to LE (either that or the newspaper, I can't remember which). And forgive me, but that makes me think of the Zodiak killer. Could it be even slightly possible that we're dealing with a copycat? Especially since the movie recently came out?

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 08:46 PM
I don't think so. He doesn't seem to be taunting LE or the public in any way. Zodiac has an ego like that of BTK. I don't feel they are related.

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 08:47 PM
I mapped out the prior murders on google maps, but I didn't save them. I will have to remap them all out again. It was amazing to see on paper.

cheko1
07-23-2007, 08:49 PM
For me its the fact that the girls were out for the evening & vanished into thin air. Most found around the Madison area in a wooded area.

Deidre Harm (Wis Rapids) had also been to a bar vanished without a trace to be found by hunters out in the woods decomposed.

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 08:49 PM
If you need any help, let us know. I'm realllllly interested to see! :)

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 08:50 PM
Another thing I noticed are the months the girls went missing. Altho, there were a few during fall and winter...the majority of them were commited in the spring and mid-summer.

The similarities I found in all the cases: Females, 17-24yo, 6+ had left bar area in Madison, most found in wooded areas, all with ties to UW, except 2...all found within 14 miles of Madison. 5 happened in early July and 5 in late spring. Out of all of those, 4 had been stabbed, no cod on 3, 1 blunt instrument,1 burned. Sarah was shot, but found near Mineral Point Road.

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 08:51 PM
For me its the fact that the girls were out for the evening & vanished into thin air. Most found around the Madison area in a wooded area.

Deidre Harm (Wis Rapids) had also been to a bar vanished without a trace to be found by hunters out in the woods decomposed.

Similar to Janet M. Raasch - deerhunters found her.

cheko1
07-23-2007, 08:52 PM
Similar to Janet M. Raasch - deerhunters found her.

Yes the same way!

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 08:56 PM
Yes the same way!

And Shirley Stewart, the youngest victim. Susan LeMahieu was found 150 yards from a parking lot in the woods. Julie Speerschneider along the Yahara river, I'm assuming near/in woods. Debra Bennett was in a gully.

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 08:59 PM
Don't forget Angela Drake...found in a drainage ditch. (I realize they convicted Michael DeSalvo, but I am not convinced he is actually the perp.)

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by SeriouslySearching http://websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1584921#post1584921)
I found another blip on a murdered UW-Baraboo/Saulk County girl name Inez Musch back in 1993. I can't find any related articles tho. She was found near campus in a wooded area. (This is only 44.3 miles/57 minutes away from Madison.)
http://www.madison.com/archives/simple_search.php?keyword_field=Serial%20Murders%2 0in%20Madison%20&pub_code_field=wsj%20tct&from_dat e_field=01/01/1968&to_date_field=07/15/2007&var_start_pos=10&var_articles_per_page=10 (http://www.madison.com/archives/simple_search.php?keyword_field=Serial%20Murders%2 0in%20Madison%20&pub_code_field=wsj%20tct&from_date_field=01/01/1968&to_date_field=07/15/2007&var_start_pos=10&var_articles_per_page=10)

Another mention of a rape/murder in 1987 upon leaving a Saulk City tavern named Angela Faye Hackl. She was 19. (This is 27.6 miles/35 mins. from Madison.)
http://www.madison.com/archives/simp...es_per_page=10 (http://www.madison.com/archives/simple_search.php?keyword_field=Serial%20Murders%2 0in%20Madison%20&pub_code_field=wsj%20tct&from_date_field=01/01/1968&to_date_field=07/15/2007&var_start_pos=30&var_articles_per_page=10)

Another brutal assault/rape mentioned in 2004 plus an incident where a woman was slashed multiple times outside UWs Trip-Adams residence hall, but survived in '93. Her assailant was never found.:
http://www.madison.com/archives/read...0406110179.php (http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/tct/2004/06/11/0406110179.php) <<<<<THIS ONE WE NEED TO INVESTIGATE FURTHER! HE LEFT A WITNESS, IMO!

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 09:05 PM
Let's try to find out more about the girls listed above and see if we can provide more links to their cases.

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 09:06 PM
I haven't been able to find anything on Inez Musch, except a scholarship established in her name. Which I find odd that there's nothing about her.

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 09:09 PM
http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/B/BROWN_kim_s.php

This is interesting - references Angela Hackl at the beginning, then goes into other crimes, two of which were solved.

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 09:22 PM
On "Realization" in Everyday Life: The Forecasting of Bad News as a Social Relation
Douglas W. Maynard
American Sociological Review, Vol. 61, No. 1 (Feb., 1996), pp. 109-131
doi:10.2307/2096409
This article consists of 23 page(s).

"A rural Sauk City man told the Angela Hackl murder trial jury Friday he heard three shots fired in the wooded area near his home and a noisy car leave the area a short time later the night the Lone Rock teen was brutally slain 27 months ago. Robert Wagner, who lives near the Pines, a teenage party area seven miles west of Sauk City, testified he did not contact police immediately because he thought the sounds were firecrackers touched off by drinkers in the wooded area. Wagner, a hunter, didn't realize they were shots from a small-caliber pistol until he heard three days later that Hackl's body had been discovered chained to a tree in the Pines."

That's all it talks about the Hackl case in the article - it's really about how people take bad news and how people deliver it. But I'll try to find more from what the article referenced.



The article that the journal article referenced is called "Hackl Case: Man Heard 3 Gunshots", published Sept. 30, 1989 in Capital Times, pages 21-22. They don't have copies online, apparently, though.

cheko1
07-23-2007, 09:25 PM
I haven't been able to find anything on Inez Musch, except a scholarship established in her name. Which I find odd that there's nothing about her.

I also can't find anything about her. But still looking

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 09:42 PM
http://www.madison.com/tct/archives/index.php?archAction=arch_read&a_from=search&a_file=%2Ftct%2F1989%2F10%2F03%2F8910030144.php&var_search=Search&keyword_field=Angela%20Hackl&pub_code_field=tct&from_date_field=&to_date_field=&var_start_pos=0&var_articles_per_page=10 (http://www.madison.com/tct/archives/index.php?archAction=arch_read&a_from=search&a_file=%2Ftct%2F1989%2F10%2F03%2F8910030144.php&var_search=Search&keyword_field=Angela%20Hackl&pub_code_field=tct&from_date_field=&to_date_field=&var_start_pos=0&var_articles_per_page=10)

~snip~

As Terry Vollbrecht takes the witness stand today in his own defense, themystery of who killed Angela Fay Hackl seems as deep as ever.

Testifying Monday, both a Sauk-Prairie cop and a Vollbrecht relative lent credence to key parts of Vollbrecht's alibi. But other details remain shaky.The seven-woman, seven-man jury has already heard the defendant's explanation of his actions - but they have not heard directly from what the prosecuting attorney has called ``the only witness'' to what happened during the early morning hours of June 12, 1987.


Investigators have twice related answers he gave during long police interviews, and a tape recording of one of the direct interrogations was played in court.


While he isn't expected to alter his alibi, his appearance on the stand isthe highlight thus far of the trial, now in its second week in the small Sauk County courtroom.


Vollbrecht, 28, has admitted he left Hondo's, a downtown Sauk City tavern,with Hackl after she invited him to continue a long night of partying after bar time, about 2 a.m.


He has contended for the past 28 months that the pair went to a nearby marshy area along the Wisconsin River and had consensual sex before she dropped him off at his car near Hondo's about 3:30 a.m.




------

So they convicted this man, who says that he's innocent. He even alleges that a cop may be involved.

------

"I have always been interested in this case. Good article, except Kim Brown didn't kill Angela Hackl. They convicted Terry Vollbrecht for killing her, though a lot of people feel he didn't do it either, including some members of Hackls family. A cop was suspected by many from the start, but we know how that goes..cops stick together. People have come forward to the police with evidence since the crime 19 years ago, but they are always shunned by the authorities. Justice was not served in this case, as the wrong man was convicted. Anyone with info on this case can email me."

From a post on Serial killer Central: http://www.skcentral.com/infusions/articles/readarticle.php?article_id=449

cheko1
07-23-2007, 09:55 PM
Could that be the missing link to all of these a dirty cop?

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 10:00 PM
It's odd, but there is a lot of pressure associated with these deaths, and by this point there have been several, right? I don't know. It's possible, but improbable, in my opinion. :)

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 11:19 PM
Dirty cop or maybe an out of control Fireman?

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 11:20 PM
We need to add Amber Wilde missing Sept. 23, 1998. http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/wilde_amber.html
Amber Wilde attended the University of Wisconsin-Washington County after graduating from Campbellsport High School. She was last seen in Green Bay, where she had transferred to the local University of Wisconsin campus and where her car eventually showed up in the parking lot of a Green Bay sports bar.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=167272
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4196/is_20050102/ai_n11008375/pg_3

While looking for links for Amber, I ran across another one! Areerat Chuprevich from Allouez, Wisconsin missing 4/26/03. http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/chuprevich_areerat.html
At the time she vanished she was enrolled in St. Norbert's College's English as a Second Language program and also pursuing a degree in business administration.

Dawn Mohn missing 8/21/2000 last seen walking home from a bar about 2:00a.m. in GreenBay.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070720/GPG0101/707200577/1978 <great article on Mahalia Xiong, Amber, Areerat, Dawn Mohn and more I had not heard of before!

jess_j
07-23-2007, 11:21 PM
this link is very interesting...
http://www.surroundedbyreality.com/Misc/Crimes/Crimes.asp

ihadcabinfever
07-23-2007, 11:29 PM
http://www.madison.com/tct/archives/index.php?archAction=arch_read&a_from=search&a_file=%2Ftct%2F1989%2F10%2F03%2F8910030144.php&var_search=Search&keyword_field=Angela%20Hackl&pub_code_field=tct&from_date_field=&to_date_field=&var_start_pos=0&var_articles_per_page=10 (http://www.madison.com/tct/archives/index.php?archAction=arch_read&a_from=search&a_file=%2Ftct%2F1989%2F10%2F03%2F8910030144.php&var_search=Search&keyword_field=Angela%20Hackl&pub_code_field=tct&from_date_field=&to_date_field=&var_start_pos=0&var_articles_per_page=10)

~snip~

As Terry Vollbrecht takes the witness stand today in his own defense, themystery of who killed Angela Fay Hackl seems as deep as ever.

Testifying Monday, both a Sauk-Prairie cop and a Vollbrecht relative lent credence to key parts of Vollbrecht's alibi. But other details remain shaky.The seven-woman, seven-man jury has already heard the defendant's explanation of his actions - but they have not heard directly from what the prosecuting attorney has called ``the only witness'' to what happened during the early morning hours of June 12, 1987.


Investigators have twice related answers he gave during long police interviews, and a tape recording of one of the direct interrogations was played in court.


While he isn't expected to alter his alibi, his appearance on the stand isthe highlight thus far of the trial, now in its second week in the small Sauk County courtroom.


Vollbrecht, 28, has admitted he left Hondo's, a downtown Sauk City tavern,with Hackl after she invited him to continue a long night of partying after bar time, about 2 a.m.


He has contended for the past 28 months that the pair went to a nearby marshy area along the Wisconsin River and had consensual sex before she dropped him off at his car near Hondo's about 3:30 a.m.




------

So they convicted this man, who says that he's innocent. He even alleges that a cop may be involved.

------

"I have always been interested in this case. Good article, except Kim Brown didn't kill Angela Hackl. They convicted Terry Vollbrecht for killing her, though a lot of people feel he didn't do it either, including some members of Hackls family. A cop was suspected by many from the start, but we know how that goes..cops stick together. People have come forward to the police with evidence since the crime 19 years ago, but they are always shunned by the authorities. Justice was not served in this case, as the wrong man was convicted. Anyone with info on this case can email me."

From a post on Serial killer Central: http://www.skcentral.com/infusions/articles/readarticle.php?article_id=449


They don't stick together on something like this. They threw a cop off the force in my old town for stalking. I remember he was WEIRD! and he lived 2 roads behind me

jess_j
07-23-2007, 11:32 PM
We need to add Amber Wilde. I will find some links for her.


here are some....
http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/wilde_amber.html

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4196/is_19990111/ai_n10488615

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 11:36 PM
Welcome, Jess!

From that first angelfire link, looks like we got another one:

http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/chuprevich_areerat.html

jess_j
07-23-2007, 11:41 PM
Welcome, Jess!

From that first angelfire link, looks like we got another one:

http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/chuprevich_areerat.html


ok...i'm totally freaked out. i completely forgot about her. she looks similar to all the other girls. gah!!!

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 11:47 PM
This just gets deeper by the minute.

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 11:49 PM
I think it's odd that all these disappearances and unsolved murders are just now coming out. Why hasn't LE made this more public by now?

jess_j
07-23-2007, 11:51 PM
that's a very good question emily!!!
i know that my husband's family has hired their own PI's because they were so fustrated with the LE in GB.

BrowneyedEmily
07-23-2007, 11:57 PM
that's a very good question emily!!!
i know that my husband's family has hired their own PI's because they were so fustrated with the LE in GB.

Geez, that's not a good sign. Hopefully they'll realize now that they need to do something. I wonder how many more have to go missing or be found dead for anything to happen.

But I'm heading to bed guys. Everyone stay safe :)

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 11:57 PM
Most of these missing/murders aren't coming out now...which is even more troubling to me. Why hasn't the press ever picked up on all of these as a whole?

SeriouslySearching
07-23-2007, 11:58 PM
that's a very good question emily!!!
i know that my husband's family has hired their own PI's because they were so fustrated with the LE in GB.
Is this recently they hired a PI?

jess_j
07-24-2007, 12:13 AM
Is this recently they hired a PI?

no, not recent, i forget when they hired the PI. here is an article (no date??)
http://www.wbay.com/Global/story.asp?s=880920

SeriouslySearching
07-24-2007, 12:17 AM
Could you revise that and only include 10% of the story plus we have to put the link in? Copyrights are an issue around here. : ) Thanks!

You just click edit...and delete what you need to and add the link...then click on Save.

jess_j
07-24-2007, 12:20 AM
Could you revise that and only include 10% of the story plus we have to put the link in? Copyrights are an issue around here. : ) Thanks!

thanks for the tip. i wasn't sure if people would get sick of all the links!!!!

Salem
07-24-2007, 12:30 AM
Here's a link on Dail:

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12425&page=2

She's actually from Columbia, South Carolina - which is why I was saying it is a long shot, but again, the MO is very consistent with what we are seeing here.

You guys have been busy! I am so impressed! How many young women are we looking at now?

Salem

cheko1
07-24-2007, 12:57 AM
Yes Salem it is........
I read most of it & it breaks a persons heart.
Thank you for the link.

kyresearcher
07-24-2007, 01:22 AM
This just makes me sick to my stomach, all these missing women in Wisconsin. I noticed in post #11 where SeriouslySearching replied to Torino's post (sorry I don't know how to copy what Torino has posted) but did anyone notice the years there bodies were found. Starting in 1968 then 1969 and then nothing again until 78 and it continued every year until 1984 with the exception of 1983. Does anyone have a list of all of the bodies and the months and years they were found. It would be interesting to see if there is a pattern, such as maybe a vacationer who only committed these crimes while on vacation in Wisconsin. I am sure some of the bodies were not found as soon as murdered.

BrowneyedEmily
07-24-2007, 09:02 AM
This is what I've got so far - feel free to add/correct anything that needs it:

Missing and Found Dead
May 1968 - Christine Rothschild
July 21, 1976 - Debra Bennett
May 1978 - Julie Ann Hall
April 1981 - Julie Speerschneider (Disappeared March 1979)
April 1980 - Susan LeMahieu
July 1981 - Shirley Stewart
July 2, 1982 - Donna Mraz
November 17, 1984 - Janet M. Raasch
June 12, 1987 - Angela Hackl
April 26, 1993 - Inez Musch
December 22, 2005 - Angela Drake (Disappeared December 9, 2005)
November 27, 2006 - Diedre Harm (Disappeared June 10, 2006)
July 9, 2007 - Kelly Nolan (Disappeared June 23, 2007)

Missing and Not Found
August 19, 1992 - Laurie Jean Depies (Still missing)
September 23, 1998 - Amber Wilde (Still missing)
August 21, 2000 - Dawn Mohn (Still missing)
April 26, 2003 - Areerat Chuprevich (Still missing)
July 13, 2007 - Mahaxia Xiong (Still missing)
July 17, 2007 - Francine Tate (Still missing)

Unsolved
June 7, 2004 - Assault and Rape
1993 - Assault and rape

BrowneyedEmily
07-24-2007, 12:23 PM
I got in touch with a guy who had this to say about the Hackl case:

"My girlfriend knows some of the Hackl family members. I shouldn't say they don't believe he didn't do it...but there is doubt. My girlfriend is also good friends with Terry Volbrechts niece, so it's a topic that's often discussed."

SeriouslySearching
07-24-2007, 12:28 PM
Great job, Brown!! We needed a comprehensive list compiled. I believe there was one in '69...let me check.

Mysticchic
07-24-2007, 01:02 PM
Okay, Milwaukee is 2 hours to Green Bay and 1 1/2 hours to Madison. What if we were able to draw a circle around the 2 hour driving range and see how many of the murders happened inside there?
It could be a delivery man who makes those runs. But also, it could be a person who could be gone for 5-8 hours and not missed.

I just did a google search on all these murders/missing and it seems all are from the Madison area or the Green Bay area.

cheko1
07-24-2007, 01:03 PM
Good going Brown..........

SeriouslySearching
07-24-2007, 02:03 PM
Okay, Milwaukee is 2 hours to Green Bay and 1 1/2 hours to Madison. What if we were able to draw a circle around the 2 hour driving range and see how many of the murders happened inside there?
It could be a delivery man who makes those runs. But also, it could be a person who could be gone for 5-8 hours and not missed.

I just did a google search on all these murders/missing and it seems all are from the Madison area or the Green Bay area.
Here is a two hour drive within range of Milwaukee, WI. The markers are not representative of the missing women, but only in place to mark the areas within the two hours.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=113807232507814250671.0004360571d59e3eebe63&ie=UTF8&ll=43.247548,-88.857421&spn=5.072887,10.415039&z=6&om=1 (I am new at this, so give me a break on this map thing! LOL)
I will do another one from Madison, WI where I believe this perp resides later this evening.

KR2tonenow
07-24-2007, 05:04 PM
This is what I've got so far - feel free to add/correct anything that needs it:

Missing and Found Dead
May 1968 - Christine Rothschild
July 21, 1976 - Debra Bennett
May 1978 - Julie Ann Hall
April 1981 - Julie Speerschneider (Disappeared March 1979)
April 1980 - Susan LeMahieu
July 1981 - Shirley Stewart
July 2, 1982 - Donna Mraz
November 17, 1984 - Janet M. Raasch
June 12, 1987 - Angela Hackl
April 26, 1993 - Inez Musch
December 22, 2005 - Angela Drake (Disappeared December 9, 2005)
November 27, 2006 - Diedre Harm (Disappeared June 10, 2006)
July 9, 2007 - Kelly Nolan (Disappeared June 23, 2007)

Missing and Not Found
August 19, 1992 - Laurie Jean Depies (Still missing)
September 23, 1998 - Amber Wilde (Still missing)
August 21, 2000 - Dawn Mohn (Still missing)
April 26, 2003 - Areerat Chuprevich (Still missing)
July 13, 2007 - Mahaxia Xiong (Still missing)
July 17, 2007 - Francine Tate (Still missing)

Unsolved
June 7, 2004 - Assault and Rape
1993 - Assault and rape

Great job!

meowy
07-24-2007, 05:15 PM
It looks like it's a teacher's schedule.

These people have gone missing during summer break, spring break (April is spring break right?), Christmas break, Thanksgiving break.

SeriouslySearching
07-24-2007, 05:21 PM
Could someone post the schedules for breaks for UW and the related UW campuses to compare?

BrowneyedEmily
07-24-2007, 05:33 PM
http://www.today.wisc.edu/bycat.php?catId=304

That's the academic calendar starting this year and looking ahead several others. I can't find any from before, but I'm guessing they're probably about the same.

KR2tonenow
07-24-2007, 06:57 PM
Student enrollment affects the University funding, which would explain why this has all been closemouthed.

Faculty and Staff should be mentioned. Also, campus police have access to student ID and confidential info.

The spaces in dates can be that the women were held over a period of time. Would make sense for the gaps.

Defintely disturbing findings guys!

KR2tonenow
07-24-2007, 07:01 PM
Here is a two hour drive within range of Milwaukee, WI. The markers are not representative of the missing women, but only in place to mark the areas within the two hours.
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=113807232507814250671.0004360571d59e3eebe63&ie=UTF8&ll=43.247548,-88.857421&spn=5.072887,10.415039&z=6&om=1 (I am new at this, so give me a break on this map thing! LOL)
I will do another one from Madison, WI where I believe this perp resides later this evening.

agreed!

KR2tonenow
07-24-2007, 09:18 PM
We need to add Amber Wilde missing Sept. 23, 1998. http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/wilde_amber.html
Amber Wilde attended the University of Wisconsin-Washington County after graduating from Campbellsport High School. She was last seen in Green Bay, where she had transferred to the local University of Wisconsin campus and where her car eventually showed up in the parking lot of a Green Bay sports bar.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=167272
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4196/is_20050102/ai_n11008375/pg_3

While looking for links for Amber, I ran across another one! Areerat Chuprevich from Allouez, Wisconsin missing 4/26/03. http://www.angelfire.com/mi3/mpccn/chuprevich_areerat.html
At the time she vanished she was enrolled in St. Norbert's College's English as a Second Language program and also pursuing a degree in business administration.

Dawn Mohn missing 8/21/2000 last seen walking home from a bar about 2:00a.m. in GreenBay.
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070720/GPG0101/707200577/1978 <great article on Mahalia Xiong, Amber, Areerat, Dawn Mohn and more I had not heard of before!



One of these articles states "that the disappearance of these women are being chalked up to coincedence!"

snarkymalarkey
07-24-2007, 11:03 PM
http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070724/GPG0101/307200045/1207/GPGnews

good article

SeriouslySearching
07-25-2007, 01:08 AM
Wasn't this mentioned in Mahalia's case recently? Lambeau Field?

BrowneyedEmily
07-25-2007, 10:36 AM
The guy I talked to before sent me another email:

"Yeah, i live in the area where Hackl lived. Next town over actually. They convicted Kim Brown for another murder that occurred in the area in 1987. They also think he murdered another woman they found in the area that year. Hackl, many believe, was murdered by a Sauk City police officer, and that there was a cover-up. They had no solid evidence against Volbrecht, and the cop was known to frequent the area around the bar where she was last seen."


**Also, there's a guy who lives in WI who's familiar with the case trying to register for the board, but said he was rejected. Is there any way he can get in?

SeriouslySearching
07-25-2007, 01:27 PM
PM one of the Mods and ask for help. : )

Any input would be appreciated. I hope he gets in soon!

cheko1
07-25-2007, 02:11 PM
The guy I talked to before sent me another email:

"Yeah, i live in the area where Hackl lived. Next town over actually. They convicted Kim Brown for another murder that occurred in the area in 1987. They also think he murdered another woman they found in the area that year. Hackl, many believe, was murdered by a Sauk City police officer, and that there was a cover-up. They had no solid evidence against Volbrecht, and the cop was known to frequent the area around the bar where she was last seen."


**Also, there's a guy who lives in WI who's familiar with the case trying to register for the board, but said he was rejected. Is there any way he can get in?


You having any luck with the mods?

BrowneyedEmily
07-25-2007, 03:29 PM
Yep! Thanks guys. He got in using his AOL account and said he'd try to drop by soon.

SeriouslySearching
07-25-2007, 08:25 PM
We can remove Francine Tate from our list now! She was found alive and well today in northern Michigan.

Mysticchic
07-25-2007, 09:39 PM
I took some of Browns work and did some more stats on it

Missing and Found Dead
May 1968 - Christine Rothschild student Madison 18 years old, maybe part of Mad City Murders
July 21, 1976 - Debra Bennett (no info)
May 1978 - Julie Ann Hall (no info)
April 1981 - Julie Speerschneider (Disappeared March 1979) Madison 20, from bar Mad City
April 1980 - Susan LeMahieu 24 years old Mad City Murders (?) Madison
July 1981 - Shirley Stewart Madison 17 years old Mad City
July 2, 1982 - Donna Mraz 19 years old Green Bay
November 17, 1984 - Janet M. Raasch Madison 20 years old
June 12, 1987 - Angela Hackl 17 or 18 Saulk County
April 26, 1993 - Inez Musch Saulk County
December 22, 2005 - Angela Drake (Disappeared December 9, 2005) 25 years old Madison area
November 27, 2006 - Diedre Harm (Disappeared June 10, 2006) WI Rapids
July 9, 2007 - Kelly Nolan (Disappeared June 23, 2007)

Missing and Not Found
August 19, 1992 - Laurie Jean Depies (Still missing) 20 years old, Menasha, Wisconsin
September 23, 1998 - Amber Wilde (Still missing) 19years old Green Bay student
August 21, 2000 - Dawn Mohn (Still missing) 41 Green Bay
April 26, 2003 - Areerat Chuprevich (Still missing) Green Bay, 32 years old
July 13, 2007 - Mahaxia Xiong (Still missing)


Unsolved
June 7, 2004 - Assault and Rape
1993 - Assault and rape

SeriouslySearching
07-25-2007, 09:41 PM
Looks great, thanks! Here is the information you need for Julie Hall and Debra Bennett.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/madison_wi/2.html They are considered part of the original Mad City Murders.

SeriouslySearching
07-26-2007, 04:08 PM
We can remove Mahalia Xiong after they do the autopsy and give a COD. It does look to be an accident, but they need to confirm it.

Rest in peace, Mahalia. Our prayers are with you and your family.

BrowneyedEmily
07-27-2007, 08:24 AM
I got in touch with someone else about Angela Hackl, and if her information is right, it's very interesting:

"I have read and reread everything I could find on this case--and to be honest this is one of the hardest cases to find stuff on. My parents were good friends with her parents. I was real young when this happened. I just remember everyone always saying Terry didn't do it. So as I got older I tried finding stuff on it. Everyone thought (thinks) a Thomas Perschy an Ex Sauk County cop did it. She was shot with a police issued gun and hung with chains and police issued handcuffs. I guess Terry and Prschy had a few run ins b4. The only thing that I found in the newspaper was that Terry had had sex with her that night. But none of the times matched up. Thomas Perschy was suppose to have seen Angie drop Terry off in town during the time a farmer thought he heard gun shots and heard a car take off. B4 searching Angie's car they didn't lock it up like they should have. I just honestly feel he didn't do it. I can't believe they gave someone life in prison with such little to go on. Plz let me know what you found."

SeriouslySearching
07-27-2007, 11:57 AM
After reading up on a couple of other cases here, I think a 'rush to judgement' was possibly made, too. Even though juries found sufficient evidence, it was quite circumstantial and based on what happened prior to the murders with time between left for another perp to have actually acted in both cases. In my mind, this leaves reasonable doubt worthy of looking at these cases again and again. (Which is how I found one case...a journalism class goes over it periodically.)

We do need to take a good look at Angela Hackl's case as it could hold many secrets it sounds like. Great job, Emily! I would be interested to hear more about the excop angle there.

SeriouslySearching
07-28-2007, 06:04 PM
Missing and Found Dead

May 1968 - Christine Rothschild 18 years old, UW student (*MCM) Madison
July 21, 1976 - Debra Bennett 20 years old, Cardinal Hotel (*MCM) Madison
July (?) 1978 - Julie Ann Hall 18 years old, UW library asst., from King Tap Bar (*MCM) Madison
April 1981 - Julie Speerschneider 20 years old, disappeared March 1979 from bar (*MCM) Madison
April 1980 - Susan LeMahieu 24 years old (*MCM) Madison
July 1981 - Shirley Stewart 17 years old, from Dean Clinic, (*MCM) Madison
July 2, 1982 - Donna Mraz 19 years old, UW student, from waitress job on State St., (*MCM) Madison
November 17, 1984 - Janet M. Raasch 20 years old, UW student/worked on campus, disappeared October 11, 1984, (*MCM) Buena Vista
June 12, 1987 - Angela Hackl 17 or 18 years old, Saulk County *Terry Vollbrecht convicted.
July/August 1987- Barbara Blackstone 31 years old, Lyndon Station
March 1990- Sue McFadden 23 years old,
April 26, 1993 - Inez Musch 19 years old, UW-Baraboo student transferring to UW-Madison , Saulk County *tentatively been ruled a suicide
December 22, 2005 - Angela Drake 25 years old, student UW, disappeared December 9, 2005, Madison area *Michael DeSalvo convicted.
November 27, 2006 - Diedre Harm 21 years old, disappeared June 10, 2006 from bar, WI Rapids
July 9, 2007 - Kelly Nolan 22 years old, UW-Whitewater student, disappeared June 23, 2007 from State St. bar, Madison

Missing and Not Found

August 19, 1992 - Laurie Jean Depies 20 years old, (Still missing), Menasha, Wisconsin
September 23, 1998 - Amber Wilde 19 years old, UW-Green Bay student, (Still missing)
August 21, 2000 - Dawn Mohn 41 years old, (Still missing), Green Bay
April 26, 2003 - Areerat Chuprevich 32 years old, (Still missing) Green Bay,

Unsolved
1993 - Assault (stabbing) and rape, UW campus
June 7, 2004 - Assault and Rape


*Mad City Murders=MCM according to article
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/madison_wi/1.html

SeriouslySearching
07-28-2007, 06:48 PM
More on Inez Musch, Sue McFadden, Barbara Blackstone, Linda Nachreiner:


Is there a serial killer on the loose in south-central Wisconsin?
The April 26 death of Inez Musch, a young UW-Baraboo/Sauk County Center coed found in a wooded area near the campus, has stirred up that question onceagain.Musch, 19, is the fifth young woman to die mysteriously in the past five years, all within a 15-mile radius.
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/madison.com/html/archive_files/wsj/1993/05/08/9305080088.php

ronniejo
07-28-2007, 09:42 PM
Was'nt sure where to put this....

La Crosse Builds Barriers To Prevent Drunken Drownings

Work began Friday on building gates, rails and chains at three entrances to a levee at the city's Riverside Park, which is two blocks from downtown bars.

Eight college-age men in nine years have disappeared from a city tavern and turned up dead in a river. The town has three colleges and three rivers.
http://www.channel3000.com/news/13775189/detail.html

KR2tonenow
07-28-2007, 09:48 PM
Was'nt sure where to put this....

La Crosse Builds Barriers To Prevent Drunken Drownings

Work began Friday on building gates, rails and chains at three entrances to a levee at the city's Riverside Park, which is two blocks from downtown bars.

Eight college-age men in nine years have disappeared from a city tavern and turned up dead in a river. The town has three colleges and three rivers.
http://www.channel3000.com/news/13775189/detail.html

It's good to know that they are starting to address these issues, start with the safety of the highways!

Thanks for the information!

"Everyone's opinion matters.... "

SeriouslySearching
07-28-2007, 09:50 PM
They waited awhile, huh?! Let's lose 8 first before we think of a way to prevent someone from tossing them so easily into the river.

ronniejo
07-29-2007, 05:37 PM
I just ran across this editorial about Greta's show on Monday Evening. When she talked about the possibility of a serial killer being on the loose in Wisconsin.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/opinion/index.php?ntid=203254&ntpid=1

SeriouslySearching
07-30-2007, 12:06 AM
OUCH! We weren't talking just about those 3 tho...we were talking about the ton before them! Sheesh! Poor Greta...I bet she won't listen to Cheko anymore *cough*! LMAO

KR2tonenow
07-30-2007, 03:34 PM
I just ran across this editorial about Greta's show on Monday Evening. When she talked about the possibility of a serial killer being on the loose in Wisconsin.

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/opinion/index.php?ntid=203254&ntpid=1

Thank you for the interesting ariticle! It is important to emphasis that Kelly Nolan's killer remains at large, and prior to that there is substantial facts to verify may unsolved deaths involving college students in the WI area! I'd like to see what the FBI's opinion is on all of this, and what their investigation has turned up, as far as comparing evidence from prior missing persons/murders. If a serial killer isn't involved, then why are so many college kids in a concentrated area dying?

That's right they were drinking!!! Is that the logical explanation? :snooty:

SeriouslySearching
07-30-2007, 04:01 PM
Thank you for the interesting ariticle! It is important to emphasis that Kelly Nolan's killer remains at large, and prior to that there is substantial facts to verify may unsolved deaths involving college students in the WI area! I'd like to see what the FBI's opinion is on all of this, and what their investigation has turned up, as far as comparing evidence from prior missing persons/murders. If a serial killer isn't involved, then why are so many college kids in a concentrated area dying?

That's right they were drinking!!! Is that the logical explanation? :snooty:
Of course, blame the victims! They probably fell on those knives, stumbled into the guns, set themselves on fire, or like the men..fell into the river accidently because they were drunk.

In Kelly's case, they will probably try to go ahead and charge the Cafe guy because they need a suspect badly. Since they can place him with her as the last known person by his own admission...he makes an excellent target for LE. Now they just have to *cough* find evidence to match his story and they will have this case wrapped right up so not to cause any more anxiety to the public or University plus they have "solved" another one...and expect it to come BEFORE the semester begins. (They won't be looking into the MCM cases as a possibility because those were dead ends and they do not want this associated with them in any way, IMO. I think that would be a huge mistake, however.)

cheko1
07-30-2007, 04:13 PM
OUCH! We weren't talking just about those 3 tho...we were talking about the ton before them! Sheesh! Poor Greta...I bet she won't listen to Cheko anymore *cough*! LMAO


Easy SS.......LMAO Greta knows something is mighty ugly in Wis. since she was raised here. She is thick skinned like Cheko!!! Takes more then that to get her down. I hope she does a follow up show telling Madison about all the deaths & how none of them are solved. Then they can take that all the way to the bank!!! LOL :slap:

cheko1
07-30-2007, 04:14 PM
Of course, blame the victims! They probably fell on those knives, stumbled into the guns, set themselves on fire, or like the men..fell into the river accidently because they were drunk.

In Kelly's case, they will probably try to go ahead and charge the Cafe guy because they need a suspect badly. Since they can place him with her as the last known person by his own admission...he makes an excellent target for LE. Now they just have to *cough* find evidence to match his story and they will have this case wrapped right up so not to cause any more anxiety to the public or University plus they have "solved" another one...and expect it to come BEFORE the semester begins. (They won't be looking into the MCM cases as a possibility because those were dead ends and they do not want this associated with them in any way, IMO. I think that would be a huge mistake, however.)


Great post SS :blowkiss:

SeriouslySearching
07-30-2007, 07:13 PM
Easy SS.......LMAO Greta knows something is mighty ugly in Wis. since she was raised here. She is thick skinned like Cheko!!! Takes more then that to get her down. I hope she does a follow up show telling Madison about all the deaths & how none of them are solved. Then they can take that all the way to the bank!!! LOL :slap:
So true, Cheko, so true! She has to know about those! Even if she didn't bring them up yet...she needs to check them out. Go Greta Go!

SeriouslySearching
08-09-2007, 02:35 PM
Hmmm...I didn't know anything about these murders in Beloit, WI which is only an hour away from Madison:
Recent Beloit Murder Similar to Unsolved Cases http://wkow.madison.com/Images/video.gif (http://javascript<b></b>:vidUp('/Streamer/stream.php?url=/Video/playlist.php?ID=12941')) Police say it will be 3 to 4 weeks before they start seeing results on any of the evidence they gave to the state crime lab.

"We're looking for that piece of evidence that might connect it to one case or might connect it to another," Beloit Police Captain Bill Tyler says.


http://wkow.madison.com/News/index.php?ID=12941

http://www.wrex.com/News/index.php?ID=19502

Possible suspect arrested in the Mcguire case in March of '06:
http://www.beloitdailynews.com/articles/2006/04/26/news/news02.txt

I am not finding if he has gone to trial or any specifics tho. Anyone know?!

KR2tonenow
08-09-2007, 02:46 PM
Thank you SS, its incredible the amount of violence that is concentrated in that area of WI. Seems like they are dealing with more than one killer though, but the unsolved aspect keeps growing. Doesn't FBI step in at some point and look into repeat crimes?

SeriouslySearching
08-11-2007, 12:41 PM
Hey, Cheko! Greta got your emails! LOL Check out her blog on the subject:

There is one other oddity: Over the past few years, I have received dozens and dozens of e-mails about missing or dead college students — mostly male — along the Wisconsin/Minnesota border. (Madison, where college student Kelly Nolan was murdered, is about 100-plus miles from the border.) Over the years I have done segments on the string of deaths or missing college students in this area. It is weird that there have been so many college student deaths or disappearances in this area, but it could be a coincidence. Many — I get the e-mails from viewers in the area — are suspicious that the college deaths or missing cases are linked and that the authorities won't consider this.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,291388,00.html

Ang50
08-23-2007, 01:59 PM
I apologize that I have not had the time to read this thread - I will get to it.

However, I thought of this thread when I read this info -

http://www.francesfarmersrevenge.com/stuff/serialkillers/kimbrown.htm

It's a WI serial killer of women... 1987 or thereabouts...

My apologies if it's already been discussed.

Ang50
08-23-2007, 02:03 PM
And it has.... on my more refined google search, Websleuths is the first site to pop up... duh...

I'll get updated and perhaps I can actually contribute!!

Ang50
08-23-2007, 02:39 PM
Now that I've read the thread...

RE: La Crosse drownings -
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43709&highlight=la+crosse+drowning


And an almost drowning -
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34966&highlight=la+crosse+drowning

I have resurrected the thread b/c of the FBI findings. (No foul play).
I would recommend we move to the first thread to avoid diluting/confusing the two discussions...

Ang50
08-23-2007, 02:41 PM
One thing just occurred to me -

My parents were on campus at La Crosse around 1968, and stayed on as dorm parents until after I was born - roughly 1976.

They say that back then they thought there was a serial killer because people would drown back then as well. Conventional wisdom said a professor...

So the La Crosse stuff would coincide with the Madison slayings. AND - the recent drownings would coincide with the Madison-area deaths... it's a VERY long shot, but interesting...

SeriouslySearching
08-25-2007, 12:06 AM
Hmmmm..it sure is interesting.

Did you see where the latest FBI statement on the drownings? I will have to find it. It was only a couple of days ago and I meant then to post it here, but I was sidetracked! Sorry!

Ang50
08-25-2007, 03:38 PM
I posted the FBI articles on the other threads I linked above.

SeriouslySearching
08-28-2007, 12:57 AM
So we are just up against the murders of the women at this point. The FBI hasn't made a blanket statement about them...have they?

To be honest...they have NO evidence and is the very reason they can make those statements about the drownings. If they DID have any evidence...they would not have said anything. I won't discount the drownings either. The FBI might think of them as nothing...but you can't have that many without the key of them "going swimming drunk and drowning" without me being suspicious. This person hasn't been caught which tells me he has this down to an artform. I do not care what the FBI says...I say they have a problem.

Trino
09-04-2007, 08:01 AM
The LaCrosse drownings haven't been related to swimming. The bars are within a block or two of the rivers (Black and LaCrosse Rivers join the Mississippi at LaCrosse). Unfortunately, kids go into town and drink until they can no longer stand straight. While there are buses to take them back to campus, it may be dark, and they may be confused. (Have you noted it's a male problem?)

There were no fences along the river and in some places it's a 10ft. or more drop - right in downtown LaCrosse.

LaCrosse definitely has a student drinking problem. Bar offer all-you-can-drink specials for $5. Shots are a $1. Bottles of beer can be had for a dollar on Wednesdays. Oktoberfest is a days long party.

Maybe you're thinking that most college age kids are underage? Really? Has someone told the bartenders?

SewingDeb
09-04-2007, 09:40 AM
Here's the FBI story which lists many young men who have died there:
http://wcco.com/crime/local_story_246173047.html

SeriouslySearching
09-04-2007, 09:50 AM
And not everyone believes the FBI.

Viterbo junior Tina Kothbauer, 20, of Durand, said she thinks police are squelching the serial killer theory to avoid publicity, and she doesn't think the safe drinking campaign will do anything.

http://wcco.com/crime/local_story_246173047.html

We have Oktoberfest on the river here with no fences and with people drinking to excess...yet to my knowledge...we haven't had a single episode with people walking into the Arkansas after a night of drinking! We don't have fences to prevent it or people "on patrol" either. So the FBI wants us to believe these men (never older men, but students)...never women...simply "walk or stumble" into the river on a regular basis and drown. OK. Sure...why not?

It is much easier to believe the FBI cannot find any proof of foul play so have to therefore conclude the drownings are caused by drinking and irresponsible college males. They are going off of what was said by near drowning victims, but they aren't giving up anything to back up their reasoning by not releasing their reports. They should open the records and allow, in particular, the parents of students on that campus to be able to view the findings.

Trino
09-04-2007, 03:31 PM
The drownings in LaCrosse are mostly colder weather related - nothing in summer - not very surviveable in this climate, especially when someone is drunk. As I recall, in every single one of the last drownings, there was absolutely no sign of trauma and major alcohol was found in the student's systems. One student had an underage drinking citation in his pocket. I cannot see a coroner covering up such cases.

SeriouslySearching
09-05-2007, 03:02 PM
So these "drowning" incidents don't take place in the summer or have all those males survived? I know there must be many college aged males who still live in and around there during the off months to work or take summer classes. Perhaps they don't drink during the summer as much? It would seem to me that the "drownings" would take place all year round if it is so common and accidental.

Trino
09-05-2007, 06:37 PM
LaCrosse isn't a big school. I'm guessing some serious students stay around during the summer, but most LaCrosse students probably go back home, find jobs, etc. Truthfully, there isn't much to do in LaCrosse.

LaCrosse is a DIII school, pretty much in the same category as Luther, Buena Vista, Cornell, Loras, Wartburg, as examples. All are located in small towns with not much there but bars. It's not at all like Madison.

mssheila
10-25-2007, 10:50 PM
There is now a missing student from an Illinois high school who's car has been found near a river in Baraboo WI. Here is a link to the story:

http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_n43/idn2007.10.23.19.15.17.html

Here's his thread at WS:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55295

Considering where his vehicle was parked, this might become a drowning in this area that will look like it's yet another "accident"
WHERE IS LEE CUTLER?

SeriouslySearching
10-26-2007, 01:00 AM
Wow! Were you reading my mind or what, Sheila?! I was just on his thread and it clicked. I was so surprised to see this thread had popped up!! WTG!

I do find it very disturbing. I have been following his case in the media and something kept bugging me about it. It was the location!

SeriouslySearching
11-29-2007, 12:49 AM
Bumping up!

Patience
12-06-2007, 01:22 PM
Hello to everyone, I have been watching and reading this thread since it started and often come to see if there is anything new on these cases. The research you have done here is comendable. I hope I can post the Wisconsin Missing site here. It is not completely updated but hope it helps.

P.

http://www.missingpersons.doj.wi.gov/missingkids/

Patience
12-07-2007, 04:57 PM
I find this map site to be very useful, hope it's ok that I share it here.

http://www.missingadultsmap.com/

Help Find Missing Adults in the United States and Canada

MissingAdultsMap.com uses the Google Maps API together with information from the National Center for Missing Adults (NCMA) to display a current map of the origins of missing adults in the United States and Canada. If you rollover the name of the missing adult or click on a marker on the map an information balloon appears with case details on the missing adult. We hope that by presenting the NCMA information in this manner this site will contribute to enhancing awareness of missing adults cases in the United States and Canada.

SeriouslySearching
04-03-2008, 01:38 PM
I think we can add two more to this list until otherwise solved by Madison Police Department.

Joel Marino: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62909&highlight=Madison%2C+WI+Homicide%3A+Joel+Marino

Brittany Sue Zimmermann: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62895&highlight=Zimmerman

SeriouslySearching
04-25-2008, 01:53 PM
While this doesn't relate to the women on this thread, it certainly relates to the men:

Could there be a calculated, cross-country plot to kill young college men, including some in Minnesota? It seems a little hard to believe, but two New York detectives say, they can prove it.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/s421846.shtml?v=1

DeltaDawn
04-25-2008, 02:03 PM
While this doesn't relate to the women on this thread, it certainly could relate to the men:

Could there be a calculated, cross-country plot to kill young college men, including some in Minnesota? It seems a little hard to believe, but two New York detectives say, they can prove it.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/s421846.shtml?v=1


SS..I thought about you when I watched this video this morning..they do have some Wisconsin vics listed on the interactive map at that link.

The smiley faces and the tip to the avenue in the other state, where another body was found in the water..it does appear to be some kind of crime group that are interelated across the country. This is very creepy.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/s421937.shtml?cat=63

SNIP/
Minnesota and Wisconsin victims that detectives believe may be related (INFORMATION FROM DET. KEVIN GANNON)

Wisconsin
1) Charles Blatz 28 yrs
Missing-9/28/97 La Crosse, Wisc.
Found-10/0397 -- Mississippi River --BAC (0.20)
2) Anthony Skifton 19 yrs
Missing-10/10/97 La Crosse, Wisc.
Found-- 10/20/97-- Mississippi River --Bac (0.23)
3) Nathan Kapfer 20 yrs
Missing-2/22/98 La Crosse, Wisc.
Found---4/04/98 -- Mississippi River -Bac (0.22)
Third (3rd) child missing within five (5) months, (9/20/97 ---2/22/98). Not just the same state but the same town of La Crosse.
4) Jeffrey Geesey 21 yrs.
Missing-4/11/99 La Crosse, Wisc.
Found---5/24/99 - Mississippi River - Bac (0.42)
5) Craig Burrows 23 yrs.
Missing-9/29/02 Eau Claire, Wisc.
Found--10/06/02 - Half Moon Lake
6) Michael Noll 22 yrs.
Missing-11/06/02 Eau Claire, Wisc.
Found-----8/19/03 - Half Moon Lake
7) Nathan Herr 21 yrs.
Missing-01/10/03 Sheboygan, Wisc.
Found----3/15/03 - Lake Michigan
Third (3rd) child missing within less than three (3 1/2) months, (9/29/02--01/10/03)
8) Jared Dion 21 yrs.
Missing--4/10/04 La Crosse, Wisc.
Found----4/15/04 -- Mississippi River -Bac (0.40)
9) Joshua Snell 22 yrs. (in from Minnesota for a wedding)
Missing-6/12/05 Eau Claire, Wisc.
Found---6/15/05 - Chippewa River
10) Cullen Fortney 21 yrs.
Missing 1/08/06 Mississippi River La Crosse, Wisc.
Found---1/08/06 - ALIVE Bac (0.043-0.1643)
11) Kenji Ohnri 20 yrs.
Missing-01/28/06 Madison, Wisc.
Found----6/19/06 - Lake Mendota
12) Lucas Homan 21 yrs
Missing-9/30/06 La Crosse, Wisc.
Found--10/02/06 - Mississippi River

Minnesota
1) Ken Christiansen 19 yrs.
Missing-4/13/01 Duluth, Minn.
Found---4/16/01 - Chester Creek
2) Christopher Nordby 27 yrs.
Missing-11/07/01 Minneapolis, Minn.
Found-----2/11/02 - Mississippi River
3) Christopher Jenkins 21 yrs.
Missing-10/31/02 Minneapolis, Minn.
Found---02/27/03 - Mississippi River
4) Joshua Guimond 20 yrs.
Missing-11/09/02 Collegeville, Minn.
Found---( ) Never Found
5) Jeremy Stienkeoway 24 yrs.
Missing-01/20/03 Hinckley, Minn.
Found----4/10/03 - St. Croix River
6) Patrick Kycia 19 yrs.
Missing-9/23/05 Moorhead, Minn.
Found---9/28/05 - Red River
7) Scot Radel 21 yrs.
Missing-02/02/05 St. Cloud, Minn.
Found-----3/01/06

http://kstp.com/kstpImages/system/bg/filler1x1.gifhttp://kstp.com/kstpImages/system/bg/filler1x1.gifhttp://kstp.com/kstpImages/system/bg/filler1x1.gif

/SNIP

newshound81
04-25-2008, 02:21 PM
Even though no body has been discovered, is it possible that Brian Schafer could be a victim of these killers? Ohio isn't too far from the other states.

DeltaDawn
04-25-2008, 02:30 PM
Even though no body has been discovered, is it possible that Brian Schafer could be a victim of these killers? Ohio isn't too far from the other states.

I posted a link to this video on Brian's thread at Blink34's request.

Soonerbabie
04-25-2008, 02:30 PM
All I can say is wow. You guys were right on target. I wonder when we will find out more about this "group"? Why in the world would they be doing this for? What do you guys think?

SeriouslySearching
04-25-2008, 05:02 PM
There were many people who always felt they were too coincidental to have been tragic accidents. It never made sense.

As far as who this "gang" of people are that the Detectives reason to have done this...my initial theory would be it is connected to a college underground group perhaps associated to a fraternity or an internet group. As they are finding them to be connected in different states, it would suggest they definitely have a common goal or motive. They have to be in contact. Like they mentioned, there is even a Hierarchy involved.

RR0004
04-27-2008, 12:30 AM
Hope you are well, Blink...and rested.

The University of Wisconsin has had more than their share of tragedy.

mssheila
05-18-2008, 02:00 PM
Interesting article in today's paper...... SS- I thought you'd particularly find this interesting......

http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/article.php?article=22643

Fresh hope in old murder case
Bill Lueders (http://www.thedailypage.com/search/searchAuthor.php?authorID=25) on Thursday 05/15/2008

A recent Wisconsin State Journal story on the upcoming 40th anniversary of UW-Madison student Christine Rothschild's brutal murder contained this discouraging line: "The trail of the murderer could not get any colder, unless the killer is dead too."
Linda Schulko, a friend of Rothschild's who is planning a memorial at the UW Carillon Tower on May 26, 11 am, begs to differ. She finds ample reason to suspect a particular individual, especially in light of information she uncovered two years ago.
In July 2006, after Schulko wrote about the case in an alumni magazine, she received a letter from Rev. Kay Krebs, a pastor in Colorado. It related that on May 26, 1968, when Krebs was a student working at UW Hospital, a surgery resident walked into a hallway where she was gazing outside at a storm and said, "Nice day for a murder."
<SNIP>

RR0004
05-21-2008, 04:52 PM
Thanks for sharing MSSheila.
I just got back from Madison. While out there, I read an article that stated that the chief of police doesn't believe the two most recent murders , Marino and Zimmerman, were connected (though it does mention a similarity in method). Still no progress reported. I haven't read anything recently concerning Kelly Nolan. I also didn't find a huge police presence in the city. The only noticeable difference is that they seem to be trying to contain the homeless population.

PS- there was another loon who "escaped" from the UW Hospital during the year. Messages went out to all students. They located the person, if I'm not mistaken, out in CA.

RR0004
06-02-2008, 05:53 PM
Hi,

I'm new to the list and see that the comments have tapered off and thought I'd throw in a new angle based on some info I have.

Does anyone here know whether any of the suspects of any of the unsolved crimes were former guards/employees of the Oregon School for Girls which closed down in 1976? Also, what is the proximity of the former OSG to any of the crimes?

tangled web
I'm confused, Tangled Web...are you sure you posted on the right thread? I assume you're talking about the state of Oregon...not sure of the connection with Wisconsin.

KR2tonenow
06-03-2008, 06:49 PM
Not sure about the implication either, however any leads should be forwarded to Madison PD.

I'd like to see the take on the FBI thoughts any regards to all these drownings.

Really has to be some kind of connection, from state to state.

RR0004
06-03-2008, 06:51 PM
Not sure about the implication either, however any leads should be forwarded to Madison PD.

I'd like to see the take on the FBI thoughts any regards to all these drownings.

Really has to be some kind of connection, from state to state.
Only thing I've read in articles was that they see no connection.

tangledweb
06-06-2008, 12:25 PM
What I was implying was this:

In 1972, while a juvenile, my now-wife, (who I'm still married to), was incarcerated at Oregon School for Girls in Oregon, Wisconsin (this was 36 years ago). OSfG's shut down in 1976 I believe, or rather became an adult correctional facility.

While there, she observed numerous instances of male guards fraternizing (aka sexual favors for facility privileges) with juvenile female inmates, which included guards taking certain juvenile female inmates off grounds (using their private vehicles) for the weekend for sexual favors and returning them when the weekend was over. Other sexual encounters occurred on grounds also.

My wife also told me that there were numerous suicides at this facility by female inmates. (Gee, I wonder why?) One of those suicides was a friend of my wife's, Joann Williams, a female juvenile inmate whose twin's were taken away from her when she gave birth while at the facility.

Because Kelly Nolan's body was found near Oregon, Wisconsin I thought this might be a lead since these certain guards are still out there living in the community and it appears that the Madison area has had a high incident rate of unsolved rapes, murders, etc. over the years. Correct me if I'm wrong. You don't see LE websites posting their crime statistics very much anymore, do you? (But they sure don't mind posting your criminal record on the internet, no matter how minor, for the rest of eternity, so I don't mind criticizing them eternally in return).

However, off that subject, while I was further checking out a news article posted here (I scoured your site for info) and comparing it with another person, I was able to make what I felt was a strong connection between these two people and Kelly Nolan. I felt that since this connection did not come out in the investigation, it was overlooked. That connection/information I did turn in to Crimestoppers and is totally unrelated to the OSfG's scenario. If they eventually don't develop any leads from it, I still plan on posting that connection/information here eventually in the hopes that someone closer to the events than I am will make a further connection.

[I know how these cases end up forgotten. I remember a case from Milwaukee back in the late 60's, early 70's, (I think?) where a Milwaukee Riverside High School student was abducted and ended up in pieces down just off 7 Mile Rd. in the Racine County area (another area with a high rate of unsolved murders). I can't even think of her name anymore and she sure isn't even mentioned on the Racine LE sites. Her case isn't even mentioned on the internet, in fact. So, that's how cases like these end up (buried and forgotten) unless they are pursued outside LE circles].

I feel that the evidence I found makes a strong connection to why the body was found at this particular location and these two people. I am not implying that these two people had anything to do with the murder (though they could have), but may have been the reason Kelly Nolan ended up where she did. Their connection is way more than just coincidental and I believe you'll agree too once you see it.

I am in no way connected to this case other than having come across Websleuth's site and finding what I feel are strong clues in all the data links posted here, I know no one who lives in this area and I don't live in the Madison area either.

I did notice an incorrect statement at: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1863556/posts where it states: "Wray would not say exactly where the body was discovered, but Patricia Wardell, who lives at 4724 Schneider Road, said it was on the property of her neighbor..."

Using the Dane county property/address locator (I forget what it's called), 4724 Schneider Road was actually the property of the neighbor (location of the body), and the Wardell address was incorrect. Did anyone catch that reporting error?

Thanks for letting me speak my piece...

SeriouslySearching
06-07-2008, 05:02 AM
Interesting article in today's paper...... SS- I thought you'd particularly find this interesting......

http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/article.php?article=22643

Fresh hope in old murder case
Bill Lueders (http://www.thedailypage.com/search/searchAuthor.php?authorID=25) on Thursday 05/15/2008

A recent Wisconsin State Journal story on the upcoming 40th anniversary of UW-Madison student Christine Rothschild's brutal murder contained this discouraging line: "The trail of the murderer could not get any colder, unless the killer is dead too."
Linda Schulko, a friend of Rothschild's who is planning a memorial at the UW Carillon Tower on May 26, 11 am, begs to differ. She finds ample reason to suspect a particular individual, especially in light of information she uncovered two years ago.
In July 2006, after Schulko wrote about the case in an alumni magazine, she received a letter from Rev. Kay Krebs, a pastor in Colorado. It related that on May 26, 1968, when Krebs was a student working at UW Hospital, a surgery resident walked into a hallway where she was gazing outside at a storm and said, "Nice day for a murder."
<SNIP>Thanks! I am really interested in this!! I would love to know much more.

SeriouslySearching
06-07-2008, 05:06 AM
Welcome to WS, Tangle! I would like to know more about what you are talking about, too. At this point, any lead is a good one since LE doesn't seem to have ANY!

RR0004
06-07-2008, 01:03 PM
What I was implying was this:

In 1972, while a juvenile, my now-wife, (who I'm still married to), was incarcerated at Oregon School for Girls in Oregon, Wisconsin (this was 36 years ago). OSfG's shut down in 1976 I believe, or rather became an adult correctional facility.

While there, she observed numerous instances of male guards fraternizing (aka sexual favors for facility privileges) with juvenile female inmates, which included guards taking certain juvenile female inmates off grounds (using their private vehicles) for the weekend for sexual favors and returning them when the weekend was over. Other sexual encounters occurred on grounds also.

My wife also told me that there were numerous suicides at this facility by female inmates. (Gee, I wonder why?) One of those suicides was a friend of my wife's, Joann Williams, a female juvenile inmate whose twin's were taken away from her when she gave birth while at the facility.

Because Kelly Nolan's body was found near Oregon, Wisconsin I thought this might be a lead since these certain guards are still out there living in the community and it appears that the Madison area has had a high incident rate of unsolved rapes, murders, etc. over the years. Correct me if I'm wrong. You don't see LE websites posting their crime statistics very much anymore, do you? (But they sure don't mind posting your criminal record on the internet, no matter how minor, for the rest of eternity, so I don't mind criticizing them eternally in return).

However, off that subject, while I was further checking out a news article posted here (I scoured your site for info) and comparing it with another person, I was able to make what I felt was a strong connection between these two people and Kelly Nolan. I felt that since this connection did not come out in the investigation, it was overlooked. That connection/information I did turn in to Crimestoppers and is totally unrelated to the OSfG's scenario. If they eventually don't develop any leads from it, I still plan on posting that connection/information here eventually in the hopes that someone closer to the events than I am will make a further connection.

[I know how these cases end up forgotten. I remember a case from Milwaukee back in the late 60's, early 70's, (I think?) where a Milwaukee Riverside High School student was abducted and ended up in pieces down just off 7 Mile Rd. in the Racine County area (another area with a high rate of unsolved murders). I can't even think of her name anymore and she sure isn't even mentioned on the Racine LE sites. Her case isn't even mentioned on the internet, in fact. So, that's how cases like these end up (buried and forgotten) unless they are pursued outside LE circles].

I feel that the evidence I found makes a strong connection to why the body was found at this particular location and these two people. I am not implying that these two people had anything to do with the murder (though they could have), but may have been the reason Kelly Nolan ended up where she did. Their connection is way more than just coincidental and I believe you'll agree too once you see it.

I am in no way connected to this case other than having come across Websleuth's site and finding what I feel are strong clues in all the data links posted here, I know no one who lives in this area and I don't live in the Madison area either.

I did notice an incorrect statement at: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1863556/posts where it states: "Wray would not say exactly where the body was discovered, but Patricia Wardell, who lives at 4724 Schneider Road, said it was on the property of her neighbor..."

Using the Dane county property/address locator (I forget what it's called), 4724 Schneider Road was actually the property of the neighbor (location of the body), and the Wardell address was incorrect. Did anyone catch that reporting error?

Thanks for letting me speak my piece...
Thanks for clearing that up, TangledWeb. I had a feeling that there might have been an Oregon, WI. I apologize for not checking. Your information is quite compelling. I'm not sure what was posted specifically about Kelly because I hadn't followed that thread, but what was brought to my attention (my daughter went to school out in WI) was that Kelly was found in "pieces" (sorry for being graphic). Could that be the reason for the discrepency in the address? I just don't know enough to say. I'll need to go research it more. Unfortunately, you are right about the fact that LE hasn't given very much information. I was also led to believe that Kelly may have known the person she walked away with...or that's what the person who was last with her outside the bar had said.

SeriouslySearching
06-08-2008, 01:24 AM
It has never been publically stated the COD for Kelly Nolan nor have "pieces" been mentioned.

It is my theory, however, that she was stabbed because intitially LE said without any doubt that she was dead by viewing her from a distance. To me, it means it had to be overtly obvious and not caused by a single gunshot wound or strangulation. IIRC, her body laid there for 3 days as "several" agencies scoured the property surrounding the crime scene for forensic evidence.

I don't think it was confirmed that Kelly actually knew the person she was supposedly handed off to. The bar guy said that the man claimed to know her. Kelly was inhebriated and it is possible she only knew him in passing.

RR0004
06-08-2008, 02:06 PM
It has never been publically stated the COD for Kelly Nolan nor have "pieces" been mentioned.

It is my theory, however, that she was stabbed because intitially LE said without any doubt that she was dead by viewing her from a distance. To me, it means it had to be overtly obvious and not caused by a single gunshot wound or strangulation. IIRC, her body laid there for 3 days as "several" agencies scoured the property surrounding the crime scene for forensic evidence.

I don't think it was confirmed that Kelly actually knew the person she was supposedly handed off to. The bar guy said that the man claimed to know her. Kelly was inhebriated and it is possible she only knew him in passing.
SS- I'll have to ask my daughter to clarify that...she was in Madison at the time and that info was known by many of the students. How they came by it, I'll have to verify. And you're right...there was no confirmation that Kelly did in fact "know" the man she walked away with.

tangledweb
06-08-2008, 02:19 PM
but what was brought to my attention (my daughter went to school out in WI) was that Kelly was found in "pieces"

Now that would be a good reason to bring in over 100 LE's from numerous agencies to scour a large crime scene area and at the same time not disclosing the COD in order to not panic the student community. Also, not to tangle the web, there's nothing more overt than being in pieces.

One thing I also noticed while researching was only one neighbor (out of quite a few) noticed a strong odor in the 17 days since the disappearance. On top of that, he didn't notice any odor until at least a week before the body was discovered. Considering a decomposing body starts smelling within 24 hours after death, one would think that the smell would have been noticed sooner than a week before the victim was found.

Two reasons why the odor wasn't noticed earlier than a week before it was found: The body (or even the pieces, if applicable) were wrapped in plastic or other material (delaying/containing the process of decomposition) and/or the time of death wasn't actually until sometime in the week before the discovery. This would lead one to believe the deceased was possibly still alive until about a week before the body was found.

You'll note from news reports that LE had been out a week earlier than the date the body was found searching this area but could not find anything. Possibly because there was no body and possibly because the "ping" location had changed in the interim? This would lead one to conclude that either the body and cellphone's location had changed in that week or else the victim was still alive until the time of the first search and had been alive in the area but then was killed and her location changed.

One would then wonder where the victim had been the first week and why LE "was confident she was still alive" at that time. (I think I read the above quote somewhere on line)

I don't believe that this was a "stranger killing" but a killing by someone who knew the victim. LE has alluded to this in their comments since the death which can be found in WS links in this thread and on the internet.

One other note: If you "Googlemap" the address from where the victim was last seen and the address of her apartment you'll notice the distance is longer in the direction she was being taken by the bouncer (or she directed the bouncer to take her) than if she had gone the other way? Why? Was she actually being taken to a vehicle (or another location other than her apartment) rather than being walked home?

I didn't read as to how drunk (or drugged) the victim appeared to be at bar time but she must have been coherent enough to tell her first escort where she lived in order for him to start taking her home. Why take the long way home?

SeriouslySearching
06-08-2008, 02:37 PM
I don't know what map you are using because Kelly's place was pretty much a straight shot from the bar area where she was last seen. I will have to go back to look, but I think it was 2.5 blocks away. I have no doubt she was led directly to a vehicle tho.

We scoured every detail of Kelly's case from Day One. We worked on different scenarios and POIs. I came up with one viable POI, imo. (He went publically bonkers in a few short days following her disappearance.)

The other possible reason no odor was detected could be due to the direction of the wind. However, I believe she was taken there and killed immediately after her abduction. I have found no reason to suspect otherwise.

RR0004
06-08-2008, 03:40 PM
I don't know what map you are using because Kelly's place was pretty much a straight shot from the bar area where she was last seen. I will have to go back to look, but I think it was 2.5 blocks away. I have no doubt she was led directly to a vehicle tho.

We scoured every detail of Kelly's case from Day One. We worked on different scenarios and POIs. I came up with one viable POI, imo. (He went publically bonkers in a few short days following her disappearance.)

The other possible reason no odor was detected could be due to the direction of the wind. However, I believe she was taken there and killed immediately after her abduction. I have found no reason to suspect otherwise.
SS- can you tell me if they ever came about a TOD? Also, does LE believe she was killed at the site she was found? Thanks for your help.

tangledweb
06-08-2008, 05:15 PM
I don't know what map you are using because Kelly's place was pretty much a straight shot from the bar area where she was last seen

You're correct. When I re-Googled Lava Lounge, 461 Gilman St. to Amy's Cafe, 414 Gilman St. to Ambassador Apts, 434 W. Mifflin St., it showed the shorter route is going northeast on Gilman. But, going southwest on Gilman to University Ave just from Lava Lounge (with Amy's Cafe out of the picture) is actually a shorter distance to the apartment on Mifflin.

tangledweb
06-08-2008, 05:33 PM
but what was brought to my attention (my daughter went to school out in WI) was that Kelly was found in "pieces"

Some quotes/links that allude to the above statement:

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/8440012.html

A forensics team was taking one last look at "soil beneath the area to see if there's any other evidence that can be gleaned," he said.

(How large of an area? Evidence like as in other homicides?)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288727,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288727,00.html)

Wray said cell-phone technology led police to mount a massive search Monday morning in the area where the body was found. The search focused on a 3-square-mile area around Fitchburg that included part of the neighboring village of Oregon, just off U.S. Highway 14.
Investigators were taking their time with the search for evidence because the area was so large and the death scene was described as complex. Stanley said investigators haven't even touched the body yet.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288652,00.html

The Nolan family has not seen the body, said DeSpain, adding that the discovery of a body has uncovered an unsolved homicide case that is not necessarily linked to Kelly Nolan.

The FBI (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288652,00.html#) was assisting the Madison Police Department investigation and the search, Special Agent Doug Porrini of the FBI Milwaukee office told FOXNews.com.

The underlined statement in red is very interesting. (taking into consideration the FBI gets involved in all serial killings)

What "unsolved homicide case" was uncovered during the investigation? Anyone know?

RR0004
06-08-2008, 06:00 PM
Some quotes/links that allude to the above statement:

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/8440012.html

A forensics team was taking one last look at "soil beneath the area to see if there's any other evidence that can be gleaned," he said.

(How large of an area? Evidence like as in other homicides?)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288727,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288727,00.html)

Wray said cell-phone technology led police to mount a massive search Monday morning in the area where the body was found. The search focused on a 3-square-mile area around Fitchburg that included part of the neighboring village of Oregon, just off U.S. Highway 14.
Investigators were taking their time with the search for evidence because the area was so large and the death scene was described as complex. Stanley said investigators haven't even touched the body yet.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288652,00.html

The Nolan family has not seen the body, said DeSpain, adding that the discovery of a body has uncovered an unsolved homicide case that is not necessarily linked to Kelly Nolan.

The FBI (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288652,00.html#) was assisting the Madison Police Department investigation and the search, Special Agent Doug Porrini of the FBI Milwaukee office told FOXNews.com.

The underlined statement in red is very interesting. (taking into consideration the FBI gets involved in all serial killings)

What "unsolved homicide case" was uncovered during the investigation? Anyone know?
Goosebump time, TW. The FBI also gets involved in crimes that occur when someone has been transported over state lines (or any crime that occurs across state line, if I'm not mistaken)...so it could mean that this involves someone missing from another state, perhaps? Could this also have led to the "talk" that there were "body parts" found? I have never seen that info...thanks for uncovering it. I want to now go back and read about the nature of the cell phone activity.

RR0004
06-08-2008, 06:04 PM
PS-Thanks also TW...I knew I had read somewhere that the search area for evidence was large. I'm of the mindset that she wasn't immediately killed...that she may have been kept alive for some time...any idea of TOD- or how long they assumed she was dead?

PPS- I really need to go dig through all the info...I feel silly asking questions that may have also been asked/answered. I apologize for my lack of knowledge.

tangledweb
06-08-2008, 06:12 PM
The FBI also gets involved in crimes that occur when someone has been transported over state lines (or any crime that occurs across state line, if I'm not mistaken)...so it could mean that this involves someone missing from another state,

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288652,00.html

"Madison police were assisted in Monday's search with agents from the FBI, Dane County Sheriff's Department, K-9 units and horse search teams. Police agencies from Wisconsin and Illinois as well as numerous volunteers also were helping."

Yes, especially since there were out of state agencies involved.

Also, in rereading the part about the discovery of a body uncovering an unsolved homicide; was this a reference to the same body since at the time they said they weren't sure it was Nolan? That would be weird, though, because it would be like saying the discovery of the body led to the discovery of the same unsolved homicide.

tangledweb
06-08-2008, 06:19 PM
any idea of TOD- or how long they assumed she was dead?

That I don't know.

RR0004
06-08-2008, 06:20 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288652,00.html

"Madison police were assisted in Monday's search with agents from the FBI, Dane County Sheriff's Department, K-9 units and horse search teams. Police agencies from Wisconsin and Illinois as well as numerous volunteers also were helping."

Yes, especially since there were out of state agencies involved.

Also, in rereading the part about the discovery of a body uncovering an unsolved homicide; was this a reference to the same body since at the time they said they weren't sure it was Nolan? That would be weird, though, because it would be like saying the discovery of the body led to the discovery of the same unsolved homicide.
Also, in rereading the part about the discovery of a body uncovering an unsolved homicide; was this a reference to the same body since at the time they said they weren't sure it was Nolan? That would be weird, though, because it would be like saying the discovery of the body led to the discovery of the same unsolved homicide.

Ok...you got me there...not sure what you mean. It could mean they also found something else that "links" other crimes...why wouldn't they have revealed something? Same thing with Zimmerman...it took awhile to find out any info. I heard that it was "brutal" as well...as I believe Nolan's was. I know any murder is "brutal", but something tells me this goes beyond the norm...so perhaps there are tell-tale signs here...like LE has "seen" this before (?)

tangledweb
06-08-2008, 06:29 PM
Also, in rereading the part about the discovery of a body uncovering an unsolved homicide; was this a reference to the same body since at the time they said they weren't sure it was Nolan? That would be weird, though, because it would be like saying the discovery of the body led to the discovery of the same unsolved homicide.



I guess it could be taken both ways; the discovery of the Nolan body (yet unidentified), uncovered an unsolved homicide, this same body.

OR

It's a reference to this body uncovering another unrelated homicide which would stand to reason since FBI and out of state law enforcement was on the scene.

I'll go with the latter..

RR0004
06-08-2008, 06:36 PM
I guess it could be taken both ways; the discovery of the Nolan body (yet unidentified), uncovered an unsolved homicide, this same body.

OR

It's a reference to this body uncovering another unrelated homicide which would stand to reason since FBI and out of state law enforcement was on the scene.

I'll go with the latter..
Gotcha...me, too.

I have yet to see any updates on autopsy "findings". Because it was reported early on that we wouldn't anytime "soon" (it's been a year!), leads me to believe poor Kelly is part of a bigger, albeit gruesome, picture here.

RR0004
06-08-2008, 07:11 PM
I also just read that there was someone else missing from Dane County at about the same time Kelly was...was that person ever identified or found?

SeriouslySearching
06-08-2008, 08:51 PM
Tangled~ I hate to say it, but DeSpain is terribly misleading in his public information and was all during the case of Kelly Nolan. The statement you emphasized in red is a prime example. He knew it was her. He was trying to insinuate it may not be which was to deflect John Q. Public and the family at the time. Sounds nuts, doesn't it?! Only DeSpain can answer to why he said half the things he did...but he quickly began to sound like a broken record that couldn't tell his head from his @ss. This hasn't changed. Misinformation or trying to lead the public down a specific path away from the actual reality from MPD is a constant on even the most recent cases.

Look how they hauled in all the homeless people and how they touted that one to the press! Like they could find their murderer within the group yada yada yada. Blowing smoke is what I call it and it is exactly what happened.

I think they darn well know that Kelly's murder was part of a larger picture. They would not admit it in a million years! However, they would NOT have called in other agencies to participate in a 3 day scour of the area if it wasn't neccessary. The 3 mile radius was only because of the cell tower ping. They did have a large area to cover. The other agencies were not brought in until they found Kelly's body tho.

They have not released COD or TOD on Kelly Nolan to my knowledge. As a matter of fact, they have released almost nothing on her case. It has been one of our major complaints all along. Kelly didn't stand a chance the way the case was handled from the beginning. They painted her as a lush and not credible etc. It was such a travesty!!

SeriouslySearching
06-08-2008, 08:58 PM
I also just read that there was someone else missing from Dane County at about the same time Kelly was...was that person ever identified or found?I might have to go back to refresh my memory, but I don't recall a second person missing unless you are talking about the woman who took off and they found hiding out by a creek. She had left her husband and aged parents to create a new life. They brought her home to face them. She should have been charged instead of coddled.

RR0004
06-08-2008, 10:35 PM
Tangled~ I hate to say it, but DeSpain is terribly misleading in his public information and was all during the case of Kelly Nolan. The statement you emphasized in red is a prime example. He knew it was her. He was trying to insinuate it may not be which was to deflect John Q. Public and the family at the time. Sounds nuts, doesn't it?! Only DeSpain can answer to why he said half the things he did...but he quickly began to sound like a broken record that couldn't tell his head from his @ss. This hasn't changed. Misinformation or trying to lead the public down a specific path away from the actual reality from MPD is a constant on even the most recent cases.

Look how they hauled in all the homeless people and how they touted that one to the press! Like they could find their murderer within the group yada yada yada. Blowing smoke is what I call it and it is exactly what happened.

I think they darn well know that Kelly's murder was part of a larger picture. They would not admit it in a million years! However, they would NOT have called in other agencies to participate in a 3 day scour of the area if it wasn't neccessary. The 3 mile radius was only because of the cell tower ping. They did have a large area to cover. The other agencies were not brought in until they found Kelly's body tho.

They have not released COD or TOD on Kelly Nolan to my knowledge. As a matter of fact, they have released almost nothing on her case. It has been one of our major complaints all along. Kelly didn't stand a chance the way the case was handled from the beginning. They painted her as a lush and not credible etc. It was such a travesty!!
SS- concerning Brittany- there had been a strange incident earlier in the day IIRC...a homeless guy who entered a house of students...and some homeless guy who entered a radio station (or tv station...can't remember which one)...I think they had reason to pursue that lead...and obviously the pressure of unsolved crimes warranted them to do something! Did it help? Well, now they have banned certain homeless from State Street...and they have an area set off near the Capitol where they'll be able to panhandle without worry (in July IIRC!). But still no justice for Joel, Kelly, or Brittany.

Note: In my reading today, I came across a request from Joel's girlfriend for the community to stop blaming the PD and begin to work together to solve the murder.

tangledweb
06-09-2008, 01:51 AM
Tangled~ I hate to say it, but DeSpain is terribly misleading in his public information and was all during the case of Kelly Nolan. The statement you emphasized in red is a prime example. He knew it was her. He was trying to insinuate it may not be which was to deflect John Q. Public and the family at the time. Sounds nuts, doesn't it?!

SS, I watched his video press conference at (also, in one of his press conferences on that page he states that there were several other current missing persons at the time of Kelly's disappearance):

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/8388467.html

http://images.todaystmj4.com/designimages/cms.gifWatch the 7/9 press conference at 2 p.m. from Madison PD spokesman Joel DeSpain (http://journalbg.wmod.llnwd.net/a521/o1/wtmjtv/7907_nolan_2ppresser.wmv)

On the same page is a link:

Watch raw Chopper footage of the search scene (http://journalbg.wmod.llnwd.net/a521/o1/wtmjtv/7907_chopper_nolan2.wmv)

In the beginning of that film you'll notice the twin triangular roads. Compare them with this Googlemap (satellite mode) shot:

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&hl=en&geocode=&saddr=4724+Schneider+dr,+town+of+dunn,+wi&daddr=&sll=42.962044,-89.32786&sspn=0.019126,0.031629&ie=UTF8&ll=42.960839,-89.368844&spn=0.002391,0.003954&t=h&z=18

If you type in 4724 Schneider Dr., Town of Dunn, you'll see those same twin roads adjoining Schneider Dr.

That's 4773 Schneider Dr. Now, if you typed in 4724 Schneider Dr. and scroll right on the Google map you'll come to the green "A" marker that Google put in to mark the location of 4724 Schneider Dr.

You'll note at: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1863556/posts


"Wray would not say exactly where the body was discovered, but Patricia Wardell, who lives at 4724 Schneider Road, said it was on the property of her neighbor, whom she identified as Eleanor Killerlain.
Wardell said Killerlain, who did not respond to a call for comment, is in her 80s and has owned the more than 20 acres of property for decades."

Using the DCImap at: http://lio-mapping.co.dane.wi.us/dcimap/index.htm you'll find that the search scene on the helicopter footage is not on the Killerlain property.

The statement by Wardell is misleading and Wardell's address isn't 4724 Schneider, but 4710 Schneider. The Killerlain property is actually 4724 Schneider Dr. and as you can see on the Googlemap there are no visible densely wooded areas on her property where the body was found. I don't think Wardell made that erroneous statement, I think she was misquoted.

So, yes, SS, I agree with you, there's a lot of disinformation in all these reports. Either someone is obfuscating the truth purposely or the news media is not verifying what they're being told, which in turn misleads us, the public.

You'll notice on the Google map that the border between Fitchburg and the Town of Dunn is about 200 feet from Killerlain's property, which ends at the woodline where the property of 4754 Schneider Dr. starts.

Triple K Stables (4721) is right across the road. You can see the ponds where all the LE vehicles had parked. This was on one of the news websites online. The owner even states he could see the site from his property. You'll notice on the helicopter video that they never did take a camera shot of the actual scene. In fact, the footage looks like it was edited. The closest it got was the intersection at the road on the townline and Schneider Dr.

Aside from this, does anyone know the business where Nolan went for that last job interview?

tangledweb
06-09-2008, 01:59 AM
"Madison police were assisted in Monday's search with agents from the FBI, Dane County Sheriff's Department, K-9 units and horse search teams. Police agencies from Wisconsin and Illinois as well as numerous volunteers also were helping."


BTW, there were searchers from Columbia County and Green County, WI at the Nolan site, according to news reports.

SeriouslySearching
06-09-2008, 10:03 AM
Before we go further into Kelly's case, I would like to move it here where it belongs: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52025&highlight=Kelly+Nolan Please continue there. I moved all the pertinent posts. Thanks!

Caelon
06-26-2008, 02:00 PM
RE: Christine Rothschild's UW murder on May 26, 1968:
It has been reported by a retired UW Police officer that Christine reported being stalked less than a week before her murder. UW Police refuse to interview the retired officer about this information and dismiss it without any investigation. How can a 40 year old case be solved when the detectives refuse to check out leads and have never done any DNA testing of the physical evidence from the crime scene. Says something about low priorities....!

RR0004
06-26-2008, 02:34 PM
TW- just going back and rereading...could Illinois have been brought in because of what they had found (but not yet identified) there (the partial remains of Lindsay Harris)? I'm still thinking that there's something in the "presentation" of the body that's gotten all these different agencies involved.

RR0004
06-26-2008, 02:39 PM
RE: Christine Rothschild's UW murder on May 26, 1968:
It has been reported by a retired UW Police officer that Christine reported being stalked less than a week before her murder. UW Police refuse to interview the retired officer about this information and dismiss it without any investigation. How can a 40 year old case be solved when the detectives refuse to check out leads and have never done any DNA testing of the physical evidence from the crime scene. Says something about low priorities....!
Thanks for the information, Caelon. There has to be a "cold case" unit out there in Madison (or perhaps the state?). They'd be interested in knowing that information, don't you think? (Ok...maybe not Madison...but there has to be some LE agency that would!)

Welcome!

tangledweb
06-28-2008, 03:36 AM
...could Illinois have been brought in because of what they had found (but not yet identified) there (the partial remains of Lindsay Harris)? I'm still thinking that there's something in the "presentation" of the body that's gotten all these different agencies involved.

RR, that's possible. The rest of the body is somewhere. I watched AMW about that Las Vegas case. I thought it interesting that when her boyfriend was directly questioned about his involvement by a jounalist, he looked down to his left before answering (not just once, either). Maybe an investigator picked up on that telltale sign of lying.

The interview ended with what I thought was a phony "emotional breakdown". When he was asked if he did anything he said he would never do anything to harm her. It was interesting also that he just happened to be out of town that day when she disappeared.

I don't think I've ever seen a precedent set before where LE withheld information that they've located a body and then kept that info secret from the public for weeks, months, etc.

My take on it is that they're suspecting someone specific and, like you say, the "presentation" aroused suspicions. I suppose one could see who's all missing from the different counties involved and look for similarities, but I think that could become a full time job.

Bobbisangel
06-28-2008, 05:07 AM
RE: Christine Rothschild's UW murder on May 26, 1968:
It has been reported by a retired UW Police officer that Christine reported being stalked less than a week before her murder. UW Police refuse to interview the retired officer about this information and dismiss it without any investigation. How can a 40 year old case be solved when the detectives refuse to check out leads and have never done any DNA testing of the physical evidence from the crime scene. Says something about low priorities....!



I wonder if anyone has taken all of the compiled info...names. ages, and date of murder or disappearance of the women and the same for the men...and sent it to the FBI in that area and to the Attorney General in that state...WI?

Also the info in the post above about Christine. Someone who might care should have the lists. It really is an eye opener when you see one name after the other and how many there are from the same area. Same for the guys.

I'm wondering if the killer of the females and the males could be the same peron. The females were murdered or came up missing in the Spring and Summer it was said. The males all disappeared and were found in rivers in the winter. Maybe for some reason the killer likes to hunt females in the nice weather and males in the colder weather where he just has to intercept them as they walk and tosses them in the river which is a lot faster then rape and murder. Just a thought but it wouldn't surprise me.

If LE think all of these murders, rapes, missing, and drownings are concidence then they have their heads up their butts or are just to lazy to look at all of the evidence which says the totally opposite. I would bet my last dollar that this is the work of one person. He keeps busy year around...Spring and Summer looking for females and winter and maybe fall looking for young males.

If I had a college age daughter I know she wouldn't be going to school in WI!

RR0004
06-28-2008, 07:40 PM
I wonder if anyone has taken all of the compiled info...names. ages, and date of murder or disappearance of the women and the same for the men...and sent it to the FBI in that area and to the Attorney General in that state...WI?

Also the info in the post above about Christine. Someone who might care should have the lists. It really is an eye opener when you see one name after the other and how many there are from the same area. Same for the guys.

I'm wondering if the killer of the females and the males could be the same peron. The females were murdered or came up missing in the Spring and Summer it was said. The males all disappeared and were found in rivers in the winter. Maybe for some reason the killer likes to hunt females in the nice weather and males in the colder weather where he just has to intercept them as they walk and tosses them in the river which is a lot faster then rape and murder. Just a thought but it wouldn't surprise me.

If LE think all of these murders, rapes, missing, and drownings are concidence then they have their heads up their butts or are just to lazy to look at all of the evidence which says the totally opposite. I would bet my last dollar that this is the work of one person. He keeps busy year around...Spring and Summer looking for females and winter and maybe fall looking for young males.

If I had a college age daughter I know she wouldn't be going to school in WI!
I had similar thinking after I found that Erika Dalquist's body was found about the same time that Chris Jenkins, Michael Noll, and Josh Guimond went missing in Minnesota (the next state over). But they found her killer, who just happened to bury the remains on his grandfather's farm (smacks of Killerlain, huh TW). What stuck in my mind was that this guy Myears worked in a carnival. When thinking about our theories of who could be committing these crimes in certain areas of the country (the Midwest having more than their share) we had thought of so many that could be placed in the area...traveling salespeople, truckers, etc. I never thought of traveling "shows".
Bobbisangel--when my daughter graduated this past May from a WI school even she said she was glad to be going. More specifically, she said, "It's time to get out of Dodge". I know I feel MUCH better!

RR0004
06-28-2008, 10:00 PM
RR, that's possible. The rest of the body is somewhere. I watched AMW about that Las Vegas case. I thought it interesting that when her boyfriend was directly questioned about his involvement by a jounalist, he looked down to his left before answering (not just once, either). Maybe an investigator picked up on that telltale sign of lying.

The interview ended with what I thought was a phony "emotional breakdown". When he was asked if he did anything he said he would never do anything to harm her. It was interesting also that he just happened to be out of town that day when she disappeared.

I don't think I've ever seen a precedent set before where LE withheld information that they've located a body and then kept that info secret from the public for weeks, months, etc.

My take on it is that they're suspecting someone specific and, like you say, the "presentation" aroused suspicions. I suppose one could see who's all missing from the different counties involved and look for similarities, but I think that could become a full time job.
I know it's been a while since Lindsay went missing, but I didn't feel this man's "pain" at all. It was interesting that the bf had just spoken to her and knew her exact location. I wonder if LE checked his phone records to see if he had placed any calls around the time she went missing. Also, he was traveling back to Lindsay's backyard so to speak. Why wouldn't she have accompanied him? Her job not flexible enough? Sorry, I just think somehow he's tied to this.

Bobbisangel
06-29-2008, 06:32 AM
I had similar thinking after I found that Erika Dalquist's body was found about the same time that Chris Jenkins, Michael Noll, and Josh Guimond went missing in Minnesota (the next state over). But they found her killer, who just happened to bury the remains on his grandfather's farm (smacks of Killerlain, huh TW). What stuck in my mind was that this guy Myears worked in a carnival. When thinking about our theories of who could be committing these crimes in certain areas of the country (the Midwest having more than their share) we had thought of so many that could be placed in the area...traveling salespeople, truckers, etc. I never thought of traveling "shows".
Bobbisangel--when my daughter graduated this past May from a WI school even she said she was glad to be going. More specifically, she said, "It's time to get out of Dodge". I know I feel MUCH better!


That is wonderful that your daughter is no longer in that area, The world isn't safe but if you live in a place where a serial killer is on the loose it is best to get the heck out of there. The number of females dead or missing is just mind blowing...all from the same area. Same with the males. Lots of truck drivers travel the same route with their deliverys. Grab some girl and thrown her in the back of the truck and no one would even see or hear her crys for help. How many people pay any attention to great big trucks on the road?

It sounds like most of the kids murdered or missing were drinking. Makes them lots better targets and probably easy to get into his truck or on a walk to the river. The guys might even think that this person is trying to help them sober up...walking them.

RR0004
06-29-2008, 12:57 PM
That is wonderful that your daughter is no longer in that area, The world isn't safe but if you live in a place where a serial killer is on the loose it is best to get the heck out of there. The number of females dead or missing is just mind blowing...all from the same area. Same with the males. Lots of truck drivers travel the same route with their deliverys. Grab some girl and thrown her in the back of the truck and no one would even see or hear her crys for help. How many people pay any attention to great big trucks on the road?

It sounds like most of the kids murdered or missing were drinking. Makes them lots better targets and probably easy to get into his truck or on a walk to the river. The guys might even think that this person is trying to help them sober up...walking them.
Like Kelly Nolan...I definitely think someone is out there "hunting". I think that's one reason why LE is reviewing their MPs.

Bobbisangel
06-30-2008, 02:19 AM
Like Kelly Nolan...I definitely think someone is out there "hunting". I think that's one reason why LE is reviewing their MPs.


I agree. All a person would have to do is kind of hang around the bars at closing time and watch to see if a female or male leaves the bar alone. Follow them and grab the girl and she is gone. The males are probably easy to handle if they have been drinking a lot. "come on buddy..I'll walk with you and help you sober up a little." The males probably didn't even have a clue which way they were walking. And to the river they went.

I hope LE is taking a really good look at all of the missing females in that area. There just isn't any way that the murders and missing just happened to have taken place in one area. And the profiles on the females...hair the same, etc. I'm surprised that someone didn't put it all together way before now.

RR0004
06-30-2008, 02:37 AM
I agree. All a person would have to do is kind of hang around the bars at closing time and watch to see if a female or male leaves the bar alone. Follow them and grab the girl and she is gone. The males are probably easy to handle if they have been drinking a lot. "come on buddy..I'll walk with you and help you sober up a little." The males probably didn't even have a clue which way they were walking. And to the river they went.

I hope LE is taking a really good look at all of the missing females in that area. There just isn't any way that the murders and missing just happened to have taken place in one area. And the profiles on the females...hair the same, etc. I'm surprised that someone didn't put it all together way before now.
Missing persons (male and female)...college-age guys in rivers that are so easily chalked off to "accidental drowning"...seems to me that they just haven't gotten the attention that they needed because LE doesn't llike to deal with them...that is until they become homicides. I read a book recently (a novel) that said if LE tells the ME that it looks like an accident...the ME will, by a "power of suggestion" kinda thing, look at it as if it has been an accident. Interesting. I think there are TOO MANY and the heat is on. I hope we had something to do with the pressure.

tangledweb
07-01-2008, 12:21 PM
A good percentage of these deaths have occurred right before or on certain Satanic holidays. To attribute all of the disappearances/deaths to one source/cause would be stretching credibility, though, IMO.

February 2. Candlemas.
March 21 or 22. Spring Equinox
May 1. Beltane.
June 21 or 22. Summer Solstice
August 2. Lammas
September 21 or 22. Fall Equinox
October 31. Samhain
December 21 or 22. Winter Solstice

I recall a recent television documentary that showed that a Mexican drug smuggling group was kidnapping students and/or Americans when they crossed the bridge into Mexico from the local border town and then sacrificing them so that "no one could see their drug smuggling operation" or some such nonsense. The remains of many of the victims were found buried on a property in Mexico.

The above possibility might exist in some of these cases considering that many drug groups operate in or near campuses because it's close to a "major market". Or, we might be dealing with several unconnected Satanist groups or several unconnected serial killers.

We can also figure that some of these students did actually fall into the water after becoming drunk, with that being the sole cause of death. I did notice that some of the students appeared to be extremely disoriented before death as if they had been drugged and that is a possible contributing factor also in some of the deaths.

Also, some of these male students had been kicked out of bars into the freezing cold (by the bouncers after becoming rowdy) without their coats, keys and cell phones and were not allowed to retrieve their personal items. This absolutely helped contribute to their deaths and those bars should be held liable to a degree.

Blink34
07-14-2008, 12:22 PM
A good percentage of these deaths have occurred right before or on certain Satanic holidays. To attribute all of the disappearances/deaths to one source/cause would be stretching credibility, though, IMO.

February 2. Candlemas.
March 21 or 22. Spring Equinox
May 1. Beltane.
June 21 or 22. Summer Solstice
August 2. Lammas
September 21 or 22. Fall Equinox
October 31. Samhain
December 21 or 22. Winter Solstice

I recall a recent television documentary that showed that a Mexican drug smuggling group was kidnapping students and/or Americans when they crossed the bridge into Mexico from the local border town and then sacrificing them so that "no one could see their drug smuggling operation" or some such nonsense. The remains of many of the victims were found buried on a property in Mexico.

The above possibility might exist in some of these cases considering that many drug groups operate in or near campuses because it's close to a "major market". Or, we might be dealing with several unconnected Satanist groups or several unconnected serial killers.

We can also figure that some of these students did actually fall into the water after becoming drunk, with that being the sole cause of death. I did notice that some of the students appeared to be extremely disoriented before death as if they had been drugged and that is a possible contributing factor also in some of the deaths.

Also, some of these male students had been kicked out of bars into the freezing cold (by the bouncers after becoming rowdy) without their coats, keys and cell phones and were not allowed to retrieve their personal items. This absolutely helped contribute to their deaths and those bars should be held liable to a degree.

Tangled Web, very interesting info, thanks. Can I ask where you came about a Satanic Holiday Calander of some sort?

tangledweb
07-14-2008, 03:22 PM
Can I ask where you came about a Satanic Holiday Calander of some sort?

One of many different sources listed on the internet. I presume that the holidays vary from group to group.

It would probably be better to list the dates of all deaths and see if what percentage of them fall near the same date and then see if those dates are celebrated by any specific known group rather than Satanism as a whole.

It could also be coincidental that the deaths occurred on a so-called Satanic holiday.

WISCONSIN1975
07-23-2008, 09:53 PM
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/tct/2005/08/12/0508120237.php

Here is a link to one that you may not have known about. This happened back in 1980 and they have no idea who they are even looking for. A young teenage couple leaves a wedding reception at a remote dance hall (with a bar) and never makes it from the building to their vehicle. They are found two months later by some squirrel hunters.

Rudolf
07-24-2008, 02:18 PM
http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/tct/2005/08/12/0508120237.php

Here is a link to one that you may not have known about. This happened back in 1980 and they have no idea who they are even looking for. A young teenage couple leaves a wedding reception at a remote dance hall (with a bar) and never makes it from the building to their vehicle. They are found two months later by some squirrel hunters.
Thanks for posting about this couple, I remember the disappearence and what a shock it was. I forgot they never solved it.
I'd like to make mention of Ben Wilberding of Tomahawk,WI,
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wilberding_ben.html and also Todd Yopek of Denmark, WI,
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/y/yopek_todd.html

Ooops, sorry, you're concentrating on female victims. I posted too quickly.

Tomahawk Wi is more North Central WI and Denmark is on the Eastern lake shore, quite near Green Bay.

hoppyfrog
12-03-2008, 12:45 PM
Missing and Found Dead

May 1968 - Christine Rothschild 18 years old, UW student (*MCM) Madison
July 21, 1976 - Debra Bennett 20 years old, Cardinal Hotel (*MCM) Madison
July (?) 1978 - Julie Ann Hall 18 years old, UW library asst., from King Tap Bar (*MCM) Madison
April 1981 - Julie Speerschneider 20 years old, disappeared March 1979 from bar (*MCM) Madison
April 1980 - Susan LeMahieu 24 years old (*MCM) Madison
July 1981 - Shirley Stewart 17 years old, from Dean Clinic, (*MCM) Madison
July 2, 1982 - Donna Mraz 19 years old, UW student, from waitress job on State St., (*MCM) Madison
November 17, 1984 - Janet M. Raasch 20 years old, UW student/worked on campus, disappeared October 11, 1984, (*MCM) Buena Vista
June 12, 1987 - Angela Hackl 17 or 18 years old, Saulk County *Terry Vollbrecht convicted.
July/August 1987- Barbara Blackstone 31 years old, Lyndon Station
March 1990- Sue McFadden 23 years old,
April 26, 1993 - Inez Musch 19 years old, UW-Baraboo student transferring to UW-Madison , Saulk County *tentatively been ruled a suicide
December 22, 2005 - Angela Drake 25 years old, student UW, disappeared December 9, 2005, Madison area *Michael DeSalvo convicted.
November 27, 2006 - Diedre Harm 21 years old, disappeared June 10, 2006 from bar, WI Rapids
July 9, 2007 - Kelly Nolan 22 years old, UW-Whitewater student, disappeared June 23, 2007 from State St. bar, Madison

Missing and Not Found

August 19, 1992 - Laurie Jean Depies 20 years old, (Still missing), Menasha, Wisconsin
September 23, 1998 - Amber Wilde 19 years old, UW-Green Bay student, (Still missing)
August 21, 2000 - Dawn Mohn 41 years old, (Still missing), Green Bay
April 26, 2003 - Areerat Chuprevich 32 years old, (Still missing) Green Bay,

Unsolved
1993 - Assault (stabbing) and rape, UW campus
June 7, 2004 - Assault and Rape


*Mad City Murders=MCM according to article
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/unsolved/madison_wi/1.html

http://www.htrnews.com/article/20081203/GPG0101/81203020/1978 (http://www.htrnews.com/article/20081203/GPG0101/81203020/1978)

3 Dec 08

The remains found in a shallow grave in Morrison are the body of Areerat Chuprevich, a 32-year-old Allouez woman missing since April 2003, a source close to the investigation confirmed today.

much more at link

vollbrecht's nephew
01-30-2009, 04:58 AM
OK everybody as my name states i am Terry G Vollbrecht's nephew...here is what i know and what i feel.

my whole family states that the mug shot of my uncle displayed in GOT MURDER is a photo shopped photo when he was arrested for that crime he was clean shaven.

i was a baby when he was convicted and i was at his trial.

personally i think that the police officer did it his name slips my memory perschy i believe

and i don't understand how a jury can convict a man to 25-life on very little evidence because to convict someone there cannot be any doubt that they committed the crime but the prosecutor put on a flash and bang performance and should have got an Emmy for it.

if only a lie detector test would stand up in court I'm sure my uncle would take one and it would prove that he didn't do it.

please help in anyway you can i am trying to find anything that will help free him of his wrongful conviction

WISCONSIN1975
03-09-2009, 01:58 PM
The State of Wisconsin Cold Case Division has announced they will be reviewing the case of Tim Hack and Kelly Drew.

http://dailyunion.com/main.asp?SectionID=36&SubSectionID=110&ArticleID=1542

http://dailyunion.com/main.asp?SectionID=36&SubSectionID=110&ArticleID=1544

http://dailyunion.com/main.asp?SectionID=36&SubSectionID=110&ArticleID=1543


Please see the above links for more information. Any leads will help.

tangledweb
07-31-2009, 02:58 PM
The State of Wisconsin Cold Case Division has announced they will be reviewing the case of Tim Hack and Kelly Drew.

http://dailyunion.com/main.asp?SectionID=36&SubSectionID=110&ArticleID=1542

http://dailyunion.com/main.asp?SectionID=36&SubSectionID=110&ArticleID=1544

http://dailyunion.com/main.asp?SectionID=36&SubSectionID=110&ArticleID=1543


Please see the above links for more information. Any leads will help.

Kentucky man charged with murder...

http://content.usatoday.net/dist/custom/gci/InsidePage.aspx?cId=journal&sParam=31285415.story

JEFFERSON, Wis. Prosecutors have charged a Kentucky man with killing two high school sweethearts who disappeared from a Wisconsin wedding reception nearly 30 years ago.
Edward W. Edwards, 76, of Louisville, Ky. faces two counts of first-degree murder in connection with the deaths of Tim Hack and Kelly Drew, who were both 19. Wisconsin investigators arrested Edwards Thursday afternoon in Louisville. Jefferson County District Attorney Susan V. Happ filed the charges later that day.

The slayings have haunted Jefferson County for almost three decades. Deputies congratulated Sheriff Paul Milbrath as he arrived for work Friday morning. More at link

Cubby
01-13-2011, 09:42 AM
bump to move to the cold case forum.

Richard
01-14-2011, 10:40 AM
Photos and other cases at link below

---------------------------------------

Milwaukee police COLD CASE # 17 - HOMICIDE

VICTIM: Stephanie Casberg
OCCURRED: 07/09/69

Stephanie's dismembered body was found on the south side of the Root River at the Racine/Milwaukee County line, near a bridge just west of I-94 on July 9, 1969. She was last seen leaving work at Marc's Big Boy Restaurant on N. Van Buren Street in Milwaukee in the early morning hours of July 7, 1969.



Milwaukee Police COLD CASE #18 - HOMICIDE

VICTIM: Terri L. Erdmann
OCCURRED: 06/24/71

Terri was discovered at N5900 W9950 in the City of Milwaukee in a wooded area near railroad tracks. Terri had been sexually assaulted and died as a result of numerous stab wounds. The area where Terri was found was behind the old "Moreway" store located at 10100 W. Appleton Avenue. Other assaults had taken place at that location and that suspect may be the same individual who killed Terri.


LINK:

http://city.milwaukee.gov/Police/coldcases

angela0040
03-17-2011, 08:52 PM
Update-Edward Edwards received back to back life terms for the murders of Tim Hack & Kelly Drew here in Wisconsin. He was also found guilty of the murders of another couple, Judith Straub & Bill Lavaco, in Ohio and received life in that as well. As of 3/9/11 he received the death penalty in Ohio for a 5th murder, the victim was his foster son. See link for more.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_68c07dc2-4a4c-11e0-baf1-001cc4c002e0.html

Dreamnine
04-05-2011, 12:38 PM
That's a lot of unsolved cases...I just read about Christine Rothschild on another forum.

bessie
09-23-2012, 04:55 PM
by Jessica Hopper
May 17, 2011

Larry DeWayne Hall confessed to Menasha, Wisc. police that he kidnapped and killed Depies in August 1992. Hall is currently serving a life sentence in a North Carolina prison for the kidnapping of an Illinois girl who disappeared a year after Depies.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wisconsin-cold-case-cracked-inmate-confesses-laurie-depies/story?id=13622809#.UF9yllEw-So

May 28, 2011

MILWAUKEE Larry DeWayne Hall, a convicted kidnapper long suspected in dozens of disappearances, now claims that he abducted 39 women and killed some of his victims before he went to prison in 1994, including Laurie Depies of Appleton...

Hall claimed that he'd met Depies at the mall and asked her out for pizza, but she told him she didn't have time because she was going to a friend's house. Hall said he followed her in his van, and as she parked, he stopped in the street. He called to her and offered to show her a photo album of antique cars. She recognized him and came over, he claimed.

http://www.postcrescent.com/viewart/20110528/APC0101/105280488/AP-interview-Larry-DeWayne-Hall-claims-he-abducted-39-women-including-Appleton-s-Laurie-Depies

by Andy Thompson
Jan 28, 2012

TOWN OF MENASHA Police are working to bring federal prisoner Larry DeWayne Hall to Wisconsin to determine if there is a link between the convicted child kidnapper and the 1992 disappearance of Laurie J. Depies, The Post-Crescent has learned.

http://www.postcrescent.com/article/20120129/APC0101/201290532/Officials-want-top-suspect-Laurie-Depies-case-Larry-DeWayne-Hall-return-Wisconsin

July 16, 2012

Authorities remain unable to bring alleged Depies killer back to find body

http://wtaq.com/news/articles/2012/jul/16/authorities-remain-unable-to-bring-alleged-depies-killer-back-to-find-body/

Updated: Sunday, 19 Aug 2012, 10:14 PM CDT
Published : Sunday, 19 Aug 2012, 7:39 PM CDT

Depies murder case now two decades old

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/depies-murder-case-now-2-decades-old

bessie
10-04-2013, 03:32 AM
Green Bay Police Taking Fresh Look at Six Cold Cases (http://www.wbay.com/story/23519496/2013/09/24/green-bay-police-taking-fresh-look-at-six-cold-cases)
Updated: Sep 24, 2013 5:15 PM CST
By Sarah Thomsen

Following a series of retirements over the last year, Thomas launched a new initiative to solve every cold case, reassigning new detectives to all the city's open homicide and missing persons cases.


That includes Dawn Mohn, who disappeared in August of 2000 after leaving a Broadway bar.

Beulah Ware, who hasn't been seen since March of 2004.

Dan Skenandore, who vanished after trying to hitchhike to western Wisconsin in 1996.
UW-Green Bay student Amber Wilde, missing since 1998.