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View Full Version : GUILTY 3 Die After 2 Men Break Into Home of Petit Family- Hayes GUILTY 16 of 17 counts



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southcitymom
07-29-2007, 10:18 AM
did both men take turns on the women? isnt it possible that josh didnt participate in a large portion of what happened.....Im by far NOT defending this man, but what Im saying is sometimes when two people commit a crime theres usually the strong controlling person and then the weaker more controlled person, sometimes the controlling people are the ones who actually do the more horrendous acts, leaving the other to keep watch....
As far as the Dr.s memorial speech, you have to remember he is a dr., he has seen alot of death,alot of abused people, he has learned how to shut off his feelngs which is probably what he is doing right now..

I don't think we know that both men raped the women at all. But even if Josh didn't participate in that part of the crime, even if Josh didn't buy the gas and start the fire, even if Josh didn't strangle the mother - he still didn't have the presence of mind and conscience to stop any of it.

I believe wholeheartedly that he was the weaker criminal here, but given the outcome of the crime, that doesn't matter much. He had to have known what was going on. If he allowed it to happen out of fear and to save his own skin, he left 3 innocents brutalized and dead in the wake of his fear - and that's on his head.

englishleigh
07-29-2007, 10:21 AM
Maybe he never had the oppertunity to stop it or help. His freind is much bigger and stronger than him ???

Secondly if Joshua really wanted to rape someone he had a young 20 year old girl and a fist full of oppertunities but he never touched a hair on my freinds head... why not ?? his been to her house, they have been alone togeather, he could have done something then but he did not.

Doesn't matter what his intentions might have been in this case or what he'd not done before. He did not help, he only hurt, and he is in big, big trouble now. This may have been his first violent offense, but it was a doozy. When the trial happens, the truth will come out about what he did for his part in this crime and he will receive the justice he deserves. He was with the older guy, was caught running from the scene, and it will all come out with the evidence.

wildTrose
07-29-2007, 10:22 AM
I totally agree south, he was there whether or not he actually committed these crimes himself...he should be punished just as harsh at the person who did....what I was getting at was people are defending him saying he is a nice person, he normally wouldnt do something like this this isnt the man they know etc...thats why i said maybe he didnt do the crimes but he was there

englishleigh
07-29-2007, 10:29 AM
But he had a job paying 24 bucks an hour so theres no need to rob anyone when your pulling that sort of money

But if you have a criminal mind to begin with, which let's face it, he did, you said yourself he had a rapsheet as long as a toilet roll...you CAN be led to doing worse and worse things until you finally do what this guy did. And yes, Cenasangel...he DID. He was THERE and he did nothing to stop the situation, and probably did take part in his share of the violence. Things will come out at trial that will show what happened and what part Josh had in this. Whether or not he was being threatened by the older guy is irrelevant. He is in deep, deep trouble.

And let me give you a word of caution as someone older than you and with a teenage daughter of my own: if you have friends who know this guy and know him well enough to call him a friend, you might need to find some other people to hang around with. I'm only saying this out of concern.

southcitymom
07-29-2007, 10:39 AM
I totally agree south, he was there whether or not he actually committed these crimes himself...he should be punished just as harsh at the person who did....what I was getting at was people are defending him saying he is a nice person, he normally wouldnt do something like this this isnt the man they know etc...thats why i said maybe he didnt do the crimes but he was there

Yes - I agree with you, wildTRose. I think he might not have done a lot of the things. It certainly seems like a number of folks who knew him are having a hard time getting their mind around what he's accused of doing and his participation in a crime like the.

SewingDeb
07-29-2007, 11:00 AM
I think you will find people in every murder case who just can't believe their friend would do that. We see it all the time and it just shows they were able to fool their friends and keep their true colors to themselves.

sweetmop
07-29-2007, 11:01 AM
First...... like your entitled to your opinion i'm entitled to mine, i have not disrespected your opinion so theres no need to disrespect mine.

Second..... like i said, i can only speak for Joshua as i know someone who knows him but i don't know the older one. I can say that the boy had no history of violence and whilst had a criminal record as long as a toilet roll, no of that had to do with violence. It was all drug and robbery offences. If there was any inkling he was a danger to anyone why was he granted parole ?? he had no been out of the can for even 6 months and he apparently was trying to straighten himself out.

Third..... like in the Wonderland Ranch murders, maybe he was there and witnessed but did not commit the murders. ???

cenasangel, Oh he was there alright. His participation went a little bit farther than being a witness to the horrific tortures and murders, though!

I'm sorry to say that your friends " friend " Joshua, was not the person they thought him to be, not a reformed robber, no not at all!

He is a vicious murderer now, maybe he wasn't one a week ago, but today he is! Consider the fact that his "buddy in crime", forced and accompanied the poor, distraught mother to go to her bank and withdraw $ 15,000.00 from her account! GUESS WHO STAYED BEHIND at the house to GUARD the 2 daughters, ( while their father lie on the basement floor, slipping in and out of consienciouness!!!). That wonderful FRIEND, Joshua!


Did he untie the girls and let them run for their lifes ??? No, he didn't!

Did he go downstairs and check on the father, check to see if he was indeed dead, or summon medical help for him?

No, he didn't!

Did he call 911, and report the crimes that already taken place, being the nice, upstanding young man your friends think he is???

No he did not!


Face the facts! He is an animal, a maniac, a monster! He was part of a vicious attack, a part of a killing duo, and he was really into it too, sounds like. If he were a good guy, led astray by the older guy, he would have called the authorites while the older one was gone with the mother that morning!!! And told them a house robbery had really gone bad!

That's why we really don't want to hear these stories of what a great guy that Joshua is. Because he is a very, very far cry from that fantasy!!!

fran
07-29-2007, 11:02 AM
Ok....... theres something amiss here

I can't speak for the older one but the younger guy, i know someone who knows him personaly and while it is common knowlage he is a robber and a druggie, he apparently had no history of violence. Also he had a job that was earning 24 bucks an hour as finding a job was apart of his probhation conditions and he had only been out of jail not that long. I'm finding it very hard to belive he did it, and so are his freinds. He had money so there was no need for him to rob anyone.

No offense, cenasangel, but if he was a druggie, forgetabout... whatever he told his friends about his alledged job and what he said his hourly wage was. Knowing someone who was on drugs for almost twenty years, it's a given that 99% of what they say is BS.

It also doesn't matter how 'nice' they are around their friends. There's always the dark side MOST people don't see as it goes on behind closed doors and in the drug addicts mind.

For anyone on 'crack' or 'meth,' NOTHING is beyond comprehension as to what they will do.

FWIW and IMHO,
fran

sweetmop
07-29-2007, 11:19 AM
http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-petitservice-pg,0,3407253.photogallery?coll=hc_tab01_layout


Photos from Petit Memorial Service

PSUfan
07-29-2007, 11:34 AM
To my knowlage he was clean and sober but like i said.... he may have just comenced taking drugs again.

Yes he does have 200 arrests for drugs and robbery..... why did he not kill anyone in his previous robberies ?? They were unoccupied houses and offices. This does not even fit in with his previous crimes.

Wrong. http://www.wfsb.com/news/13745324/detail.html#

Check out this guys profile. He was breaking into OCCUPIED houses, while folks were sleeping. He did this on his own.. alone.



Police have called Komisarjevsky a cat burglar who has burglarized homes close to his own in Cheshire. Working alone, police said he cut window screens in the backs of the houses and entered while people slept. For the most part, police said Komisarjevsky stole high-end electronics, including DVD players and stereos, in addition to grabbing women's purses and cash.Investigators said some details in the cases stand out, saying Komisarjevsky wore night-vision goggles. Investigators don't know how he got the goggles, which can cost a couple thousand dollars.

mrs.kravitz
07-29-2007, 11:38 AM
This is why this crime scares me to death. Josh was normal looking, he doesn't look scary, he doesn't look like he would try to beat someone to death, rape a child or set a child on fire. If he followed me around a grocery store, I probably wouldn't have noticed because he looks so very average. But the fact is he did do those horrific things and I wish there were a proper punishment here on earth for what he did. I can't help thinking someone who has been arrested 200 times probably doesn't have a firm grasp of what it takes to live in polite society and shouldn't be walking among us, whether those were violent crimes or not. Obviously violence escalates in the criminally inclined, I hope we can take that lesson from this tragedy and use it.

JBean
07-29-2007, 11:51 AM
http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-petitservice-pg,0,3407253.photogallery?coll=hc_tab01_layout


Photos from Petit Memorial Service
If you have not watched the video of the doctor eulogizing his family..please do.
Very moving.
http://www.wfsb.com/news/13774794/detail.html

Taximom
07-29-2007, 12:10 PM
Thanks for sharing that JBean. I can't fathom how he got through that.

Make sure you have your tissues. :(

fran
07-29-2007, 12:34 PM
If you have not watched the video of the doctor eulogizing his family..please do.
Very moving.
http://www.wfsb.com/news/13774794/detail.html

I've seen the video and thank you for posting it Jelly.

It was touching to watch and I know so hard for the Dad to stand there and say all of the wonderful things about his family, without breaking down himself.

I especially liked the end where he asked everyone to carry on with their friends and family where his wife and daughters had left off. ie donating time etc to help others. Not his exact words, but the meaning was there.

Bless him and his family and give them strength to carry on the rest of their life in peace.

fran

Vegas Bride
07-29-2007, 01:18 PM
This is why this crime scares me to death. Josh was normal looking, he doesn't look scary, he doesn't look like he would try to beat someone to death, rape a child or set a child on fire. If he followed me around a grocery store, I probably wouldn't have noticed because he looks so very average. But the fact is he did do those horrific things and I wish there were a proper punishment here on earth for what he did. I can't help thinking someone who has been arrested 200 times probably doesn't have a firm grasp of what it takes to live in polite society and shouldn't be walking among us, whether those were violent crimes or not. Obviously violence escalates in the criminally inclined, I hope we can take that lesson from this tragedy and use it.

People are fooled every day by nice looking pleasant acting predators. IMO we see what we want to see in others. Before things like video camers and dna I am sure many criminals got away with their crimes because they were good at acting innocent.

VB

JBean
07-29-2007, 01:21 PM
This is why this crime scares me to death. Josh was normal looking, he doesn't look scary, he doesn't look like he would try to beat someone to death, rape a child or set a child on fire. If he followed me around a grocery store, I probably wouldn't have noticed because he looks so very average. But the fact is he did do those horrific things and I wish there were a proper punishment here on earth for what he did. I can't help thinking someone who has been arrested 200 times probably doesn't have a firm grasp of what it takes to live in polite society and shouldn't be walking among us, whether those were violent crimes or not. Obviously violence escalates in the criminally inclined, I hope we can take that lesson from this tragedy and use it.
But then agan, what does a cold blooded killer actually look like?
http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/

PSUfan
07-29-2007, 01:45 PM
That really is the question, Mygirlsadie.

I think we come in with an imprint of who we are - with propensities to do both good and evil - and then how we are fed (as children) and how we choose to feed ourselves (as adults) once we get here makes up the rest of it.

In this situation, both men were "losers" by society's standards - heavy drug users, criminals. I'm sure the Petits represented to them society's "winners" - happy family, material comforts, etc... I would guess that the older man was the ringleader and the younger man was the follower, and I would guess that as the crime escalated, they felt an entitlement to strike out at those who had what they never could.

Longterm drug use also numbs people in terms of having basic empathy for others. Drug addiction is, ultimately, a disease characterized by absolute self-centeredness.

Not to throw this out as an excuse, but you did ask - I would bet my last dollar that both of these men have heavy horrors in their past - as children and otherwise. This level of violence doesn't happen without a foundation.

I found this interesting, and quote some snippets from the article. http://www.nypost.com/seven/07262007/news/regionalnews/conn__killer_adopted_as_baby_regionalnews_ginger_a dams_otis.htm


adopted as an infant by a wealthy family and remained "distant" throughout his childhood and into his troubled teen years, The Post has learned. Joshua Komisarjevsky, 26, was born to teenage parents who gave him up at birth, It sounds like this man was never "right". Never bonded? I read somewhere else that he was homeschooled. They may have done that because he was getting into trouble at school... kicked out? Or the public school simply couldve allowed him to slip through the cracks, as happened with my bipolar niece, leading to my sister homeschooling her.


"Everybody in the family tried as hard as they could to make him feel welcomed, but he was very distant," the source said.
"They had many sleepless nights and tried very hard to figure out what was going wrong."
Joshua began his criminal career with burglary at the age of 14, and his parents stood by him. But these heinous accusations have left them stunned, the source said.
Based on what I have read, I don't think the blame can be placed on the adoptive parents. Who knows if the birthmother was doing drugs through her pregnancy, etc. She may have had a history of mental illness as well.

Years ago, we had a case where an adopted boy killed his family. Dad was a well known Dr. Speculation has always been that something was genetically wrong.. bad pregnancy? Who knows.

I did a google for Keith Weaver, the adoptee from my area who killed his family, and found this website on adopted children who kill. Chilling!
http://www.amfor.net/killers/



Weaver, Keith Chul, 14 Admitted to stabbing murder of his adopters, Anna May Weaver & Raymond Clair Weaver, & his adoptive sister Kimberly, & raped a teenage adoptive relative. Keith was one of 2 Korean orphans adopted by the (White) couple whose biological son described Keith as a "self centered, callous, juvenile delinquent." Weaver's feeling of rejection became a festering mental illness. Source: "Psychologist: 'Weaver's Mind Snapped,'" Intelligencer Journal (Lancaster, PA), 3-12-92; & "Lawyer Wants Teen Accused of 3 Murders Tried as Juvenile; 9/7/91; & "Weaver Tried as Adult", 6/23/93.

pedinurse
07-29-2007, 01:53 PM
But then agan, what does a cold blooded killer actually look like?
http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/


exactly. i don't know why some people are immediately jumping in to this guys defense and saying "oh, he is the weaker one" and the older one must have had power over him and made him do it... BS. why? because he doesn't look like a killer? i have noticed that NO one is jumping to the other guys defense like that - why? because he is old, fat, ugly and looks mean? come on! just because he looks "nice" doesn't mean he didn't do it!

I took the quiz... I got six out of ten, and it told me to avoid a career in law enforcement or in IT recruitment. HAHA! thanks for the laugh jbean.

CarpeDiem
07-29-2007, 02:02 PM
If you have not watched the video of the doctor eulogizing his family..please do.
Very moving.
http://www.wfsb.com/news/13774794/detail.html

Heart break. The New York Post has a haunting picture on the front page and their article broke my heart too.

http://www.nypost.com/

JBean
07-29-2007, 02:06 PM
Heart break. The New York Post has a haunting picture on the front page and their article broke my heart too.

http://www.nypost.com/
Oh gosh I saw that.

>>"I guess if there's anything to be gained from the senseless deaths of my beautiful family, it's for us all to go forward with the inclination to live with a faith that embodies action," Dr. William Petit said at the memorial service in New Britain, as he fought back sobs.

He beseeched the crowd to "spread the work of these three wonderful women." "Help a neighbor, fight for a cause, love your family," Petit said in a moving eulogy to his wife, Jennifer Hawke-Petit, 48, and daughters Hayley, 17, and Michaela, 11<<

JBean
07-29-2007, 02:08 PM
Also from the nypost:

>>Also there were relatives of suspect Joshua Komisarjevsky, 26, who lives miles from the Petit house in Cheshire.
Komisarjevsky faces capital murder, rape and other charges. He's accused of committing the bloodbath in the house early Monday with an accomplice, Steven Hayes, 44.
His uncle, Christopher Komisarjevsky, a former CEO of public relations giant Burson-Marsteller, said he, his wife Reina and two of his children felt compelled to attend. "It felt like the right thing to do. We didn't want to intrude, but just convey our sadness at this tragedy," he told The Post.<<

KR2tonenow
07-29-2007, 02:15 PM
Also from the nypost:

>>Also there were relatives of suspect Joshua Komisarjevsky, 26, who lives miles from the Petit house in Cheshire.
Komisarjevsky faces capital murder, rape and other charges. He's accused of committing the bloodbath in the house early Monday with an accomplice, Steven Hayes, 44.
His uncle, Christopher Komisarjevsky, a former CEO of public relations giant Burson-Marsteller, said he, his wife Reina and two of his children felt compelled to attend. "It felt like the right thing to do. We didn't want to intrude, but just convey our sadness at this tragedy," he told The Post.<<

Thanks for all your great information JB. I don't feel compelled to discuss these 2 men. I do not want to give them any of my energy. What should be recognized is the mourning and grief that everyone is feeling from this senseless crime that was committed. Knowing that they will get the DP is enough!

"No one knows what makes a person committ murder...".

JBean
07-29-2007, 02:30 PM
Thanks for all your great information JB. I don't feel compelled to discuss these 2 men. I do not want to give them any of my energy. What should be recognized is the mourning and grief that everyone is feeling from this senseless crime that was committed. Knowing that they will get the DP is enough!

"No one knows what makes a person committ murder...".
OH gosh you are welcome.
My mind does not tend to stay on these 2 perps for very long.
Rather,I keep dwelling on this poor man that went to bed one night like any other night and had his entire family brutally wiped out.
I imagine him trying not to let his mind wander regarding their last moments. Like all of us, imagining a loved one in unrelenting mental and physical pain up until their last moment is too much to bear.

southcitymom
07-29-2007, 06:19 PM
If you have not watched the video of the doctor eulogizing his family..please do.
Very moving.
http://www.wfsb.com/news/13774794/detail.html

Thanks for posting this, JBean. I watched the first two minutes and, honestly, I'm just too emotionally fragile today to get through the whole thing. Maybe I'll feel better tomorrow.

CaliKid
07-29-2007, 07:00 PM
It sounds like this man was never "right". Never bonded? I read somewhere else that he was homeschooled. They may have done that because he was getting into trouble at school... kicked out? Or the public school simply couldve allowed him to slip through the cracks, as happened with my bipolar niece, leading to my sister homeschooling her.

Based on what I have read, I don't think the blame can be placed on the adoptive parents. Who knows if the birthmother was doing drugs through her pregnancy, etc. She may have had a history of mental illness as well.

Years ago, we had a case where an adopted boy killed his family. Dad was a well known Dr. Speculation has always been that something was genetically wrong.. bad pregnancy? Who knows.

We adopted 6 of our 7 children. My oldest daughter, now 23, was placed with us shortly before her 2nd birthday. She was a hellion as a teenager, and when we sought treatment we were told that she has something called Reactive Attachment Disorder. She was neglected and abused by her birthmother and never learned how to bond with people.

There was a boy in our town who killed his adoptive parents, grandparents and sister with a hammer, knife and ax.

http://www.birthpsychology.com/violence/headlines1.html

fairydusted
07-29-2007, 07:13 PM
I've been reading this board for 3 years now, and have never felt compelled to post, until now. These past 3 years, I've read the posts, played detective, and have usually agreed with the conclusions most posters had arrived at. Early on in this thread, several people questioned Dr. Petit's involvement.. as most of you did ,I, too, dismissed those thoughts as the details became available. Then came the video of yesterday's Memorial service..slammed me..my question now is, doesn't ANYONE else think this video absolutely begs us to rethink his involvement?? For someone that was reportedly beaten severely about the head with a bat and/or pipe, enough that he remained unconscious for hours, he definitley did not appear to have suffered the expected multiple gashes, bruises, or swelling that should have resulted. He has one gash to the forehead, and two black eyes, which would have been caused by the blow to the forehead. He had no problems with broken bones, sprains, or even subtle body movements. If anyone here has ever fallen down stairs, you know the trauma to your bones, muscles, etc. More telling than all of this, was the fact that he made the Memorial service all about HIM..self-grandizing about HIS life and career, his accomplishments..in the essay he quoted of Hayleys, he focused on paragraphs that told how great HE was..and lastly, his attempt at stand-up comedy was completely inappropriate..his ease at being entertaining for that heartwrenching occasion was very alarming. This man should have had more injuries, incapacities, or heartbreak than he displayed, if we are to find his story believable.

PSUfan
07-29-2007, 07:14 PM
We adopted 6 of our 7 children. My oldest daughter, now 23, was placed with us shortly before her 2nd birthday. She was a hellion as a teenager, and when we sought treatment we were told that she has something called Reactive Attachment Disorder. She was neglected and abused by her birthmother and never learned how to bond with people.

There was a boy in our town who killed his adoptive parents, grandparents and sister with a hammer, knife and ax.

http://www.birthpsychology.com/violence/headlines1.html It is a subject near and dear to my heart. Hopefully the mods will allow me to start a separate thread, starting with my post, including yours too, so not to threadjack this one.

PSUfan
07-29-2007, 07:29 PM
I've been reading this board for 3 years now, and have never felt compelled to post, until now. These past 3 years, I've read the posts, played detective, and have usually agreed with the conclusions most posters had arrived at. Early on in this thread, several people questioned Dr. Petit's involvement.. as most of you did ,I, too, dismissed those thoughts as the details became available. Then came the video of yesterday's Memorial service..slammed me..my question now is, doesn't ANYONE else think this video absolutely begs us to rethink his involvement?? For someone that was reportedly beaten severely about the head with a bat and/or pipe, enough that he remained unconscious for hours, he definitley did not appear to have suffered the expected multiple gashes, bruises, or swelling that should have resulted. He has one gash to the forehead, and two black eyes, which would have been caused by the blow to the forehead. He had no problems with broken bones, sprains, or even subtle body movements. If anyone here has ever fallen down stairs, you know the trauma to your bones, muscles, etc. More telling than all of this, was the fact that he made the Memorial service all about HIM..self-grandizing about HIS life and career, his accomplishments..in the essay he quoted of Hayleys, he focused on paragraphs that told how great HE was..and lastly, his attempt at stand-up comedy was completely inappropriate..his ease at being entertaining for that heartwrenching occasion was very alarming. This man should have had more injuries, incapacities, or heartbreak than he displayed, if we are to find his story believable. The hospital files on his condition would confirm or deny his injuries. Also, he very well could've been heavily medicated during the memorial service. It seems much too far fetched that he couldve conspired with those monsters! Your post is thought provoking though.

JBean
07-29-2007, 07:31 PM
I've been reading this board for 3 years now, and have never felt compelled to post, until now. These past 3 years, I've read the posts, played detective, and have usually agreed with the conclusions most posters had arrived at. Early on in this thread, several people questioned Dr. Petit's involvement.. as most of you did ,I, too, dismissed those thoughts as the details became available. Then came the video of yesterday's Memorial service..slammed me..my question now is, doesn't ANYONE else think this video absolutely begs us to rethink his involvement?? For someone that was reportedly beaten severely about the head with a bat and/or pipe, enough that he remained unconscious for hours, he definitley did not appear to have suffered the expected multiple gashes, bruises, or swelling that should have resulted. He has one gash to the forehead, and two black eyes, which would have been caused by the blow to the forehead. He had no problems with broken bones, sprains, or even subtle body movements. If anyone here has ever fallen down stairs, you know the trauma to your bones, muscles, etc. More telling than all of this, was the fact that he made the Memorial service all about HIM..self-grandizing about HIS life and career, his accomplishments..in the essay he quoted of Hayleys, he focused on paragraphs that told how great HE was..and lastly, his attempt at stand-up comedy was completely inappropriate..his ease at being entertaining for that heartwrenching occasion was very alarming. This man should have had more injuries, incapacities, or heartbreak than he displayed, if we are to find his story believable.
Welcome Fairydusted! Glad you came out of lurker mode.
No, it does not cause me to rethink his involvement.
I thought his eulogy was just the way his lovely family would have wanted it.
I think you missed the thrust of the eulogy.I do not think it was about him at all.
I find your last sentence a rather sad commentary and a little bit too close to bad mouthing a victim. I hope we do not go down that road, unless he becomes a POI.

fairydusted
07-29-2007, 08:29 PM
I am an RN in a major Trauma Center, and 22 years of experience with traumatic head injuries, dealing with survivors of family murders, and recognizing medicated people are exactly the reasons I question his behavior..yes, we display grief in many ways, but, he exhibited NONE of those. One would think that he would have had to be medicated to get through the service, in the light-hearted manner that he did. I watched that video four times, and I don't feel I missed the 'thrust' of his eulogy at all..it certainly was focused on HIM. I didn't want to jump to the conclusion that he may be involved in some way...not my intention, anyway. Another question..why did Komisarjevsky suddenly change his MO? Why the need for an accomplice to to the same things he had previously done alone? Why suddenly did he 'need' more than the electronics, household cash, and other things that normally satisfied his appetite in the burglaries? Why wait around for 6 or so hours to get more money from the bank? Criminal behavior does escalate with time, in many circumstances, but, most all of them stick with the same basic methods..he had too many variances, too quickly, in my opinion...

JBean
07-29-2007, 08:41 PM
I am an RN in a major Trauma Center, and 22 years of experience with traumatic head injuries, dealing with survivors of family murders, and recognizing medicated people are exactly the reasons I question his behavior..yes, we display grief in many ways, but, he exhibited NONE of those.
I disagree

One would think that he would have had to be medicated to get through the service, in the light-hearted manner that he did. I watched that video four times, and I don't feel I missed the 'thrust' of his eulogy at all..it certainly was focused on HIM.
I really disgree

I didn't want to jump to the conclusion that he may be involved in some way...not my intention, anyway. Another question..why did Komisarjevsky suddenly change his MO? Why the need for an accomplice to to the same things he had previously done alone? Why suddenly did he 'need' more than the electronics, household cash, and other things that normally satisfied his appetite in the burglaries? Why wait around for 6 or so hours to get more money from the bank? Criminal behavior does escalate with time, in many circumstances, but, most all of them stick with the same basic methods..he had too many variances, too quickly, in my opinion...
Are you suggesting the doctor is in cahoots with the murderer?

CarpeDiem
07-29-2007, 08:45 PM
I've been reading this board for 3 years now, and have never felt compelled to post, until now. These past 3 years, I've read the posts, played detective, and have usually agreed with the conclusions most posters had arrived at. Early on in this thread, several people questioned Dr. Petit's involvement.. as most of you did ,I, too, dismissed those thoughts as the details became available. Then came the video of yesterday's Memorial service..slammed me..my question now is, doesn't ANYONE else think this video absolutely begs us to rethink his involvement?? For someone that was reportedly beaten severely about the head with a bat and/or pipe, enough that he remained unconscious for hours, he definitley did not appear to have suffered the expected multiple gashes, bruises, or swelling that should have resulted. He has one gash to the forehead, and two black eyes, which would have been caused by the blow to the forehead. He had no problems with broken bones, sprains, or even subtle body movements. If anyone here has ever fallen down stairs, you know the trauma to your bones, muscles, etc. More telling than all of this, was the fact that he made the Memorial service all about HIM..self-grandizing about HIS life and career, his accomplishments..in the essay he quoted of Hayleys, he focused on paragraphs that told how great HE was..and lastly, his attempt at stand-up comedy was completely inappropriate..his ease at being entertaining for that heartwrenching occasion was very alarming. This man should have had more injuries, incapacities, or heartbreak than he displayed, if we are to find his story believable.

I don't know if anyone else noticed, but he looked like he had stitches that ran from side to side over the top of his head. A bad wound. He looked awful and horribly beat up. I can't imagine how he looked when he came through Emergency.

No way, no how, is this man involved.

fairydusted
07-29-2007, 08:46 PM
I am pointing out discrepancies, as I see them..we are all inclined to come to our own conclusions, and I am posting mine...so, as much as this will invoke your ire, yes, I am....

JBean
07-29-2007, 08:46 PM
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but he looked like he had stitches that ran from side to side over the top of his head. A bad wound. He looked awful and horribly beat up. I can't imagine how he looked when he came through Emergency.

No way, no how, this man is involved.
Agreed.

JBean
07-29-2007, 08:48 PM
I am pointing out discrepancies, as I see them..we are all inclined to come to our own conclusions, and I am posting mine...so, as much as this will invoke your ire, yes, I am....No worries! You don't bother me :)
But,as you know from reading the last 3 years, we cannot bash victims here. Just the way it is.

pedinurse
07-29-2007, 09:08 PM
I don't know if anyone else noticed, but he looked like he had stitches that ran from side to side over the top of his head. A bad wound. He looked awful and horribly beat up. I can't imagine how he looked when he came through Emergency.

No way, no how, is this man involved.

He did look awful. He looked tired. Like I said... I couldn't have gotten up before a ton of people and talked. I do have to say that I thought it was weird that he got up in front of people read the essay about himself... but that was HAYLEYs writing... that was her entrance essay into Dartmoth (sp?). That's an Ivy League college, and she got early acceptance! He was proud of her, that she wanted to be like him made him proud as well.

I think he felt a special connection to Hayley - she wanted to go into medicine, just like her dad. Actually, the whole thing he was talking about was his experiences with his family. At least, that was how I took it. And that is OK. If my family was killed - I would have talked about how much I loved them, how I enjoyed spending time with them, and the experiences we had together. That probably would have entailed some talking about myself, I guess. I hope people wouldn't see me as being selfish. That is what a memorial service is about. You know? But those are just my feelings. I certainly HOPE that it does NOT come out that he is involved... that would be just heartbreaking. That would come out of left field for me... I really do not think that is the case here. I haven't thought that at all. Someone in the thread in the beginning suggested that, and I was sitting there going... NO WAY. And guys... I am the eternal skeptic, always thinking that someone is beating thier wife, kid, whatever. So for me not to think so... is saying something! I am usually the one to go against the grain!

fairydusted
07-29-2007, 09:17 PM
I'm very sorry, Mr. Bean ,that you missed my point, entirely. I was not bashing victims..raising pertinent questions, possibly..bashing, no. I've never felt that this board was strictly for victim sympathizing..thought it was to discuss facts and opinions..am I wrong?

sweetmop
07-29-2007, 09:22 PM
If you have not watched the video of the doctor eulogizing his family..please do.
Very moving.
http://www.wfsb.com/news/13774794/detail.html

Thank you, JBean for posting the link to the video. Yes, so very touching for sure. What an exceptional man.

God bless him.

JBean
07-29-2007, 09:23 PM
I'm very sorry, Mr. Bean ,that you missed my point, entirely. I was not bashing victims..raising pertinent questions, possibly..bashing, no. I've never felt that this board was strictly for victim sympathizing..thought it was to discuss facts and opinions..am I wrong?
We just have to be careful. You have accused him being a party to a horrible crime. that is bad mouthing a victim that is not even a POI and the 2 suspects are in custody.


Don't misunderstand. i appreciate your point of view. If the doctor becomes a POI then all bets are off and we can discuss him freely. But until that time we have been warned over and over about bashing victims and I am just giving you the heads up.

ETA: example of what I mean:


More telling than all of this, was the fact that he made the Memorial service all about HIM..self-grandizing about HIS life and career, his accomplishments..in the essay he quoted of Hayleys, he focused on paragraphs that told how great HE was..and lastly, his attempt at stand-up comedy was completely inappropriate..his ease at being entertaining for that heartwrenching occasion was very alarming. This man should have had more injuries, incapacities, or heartbreak than he displayed, if we are to find his story believable

What point did I miss?

CarpeDiem
07-29-2007, 09:24 PM
I'm very sorry, Mr. Bean ,that you missed my point, entirely. I was not bashing victims..raising pertinent questions, possibly..bashing, no. I've never felt that this board was strictly for victim sympathizing..thought it was to discuss facts and opinions..am I wrong?

JMO, I think the two perps confessed early to what they did and how they did it, they probably couldn't believe their ears when told Dr. Petit survived. They were prevented from destroying any evidence on their person's or in the vehicles. I don't think LE needed much info from the Dr. when all was said.

cenasangel
07-29-2007, 09:24 PM
Apparently i stand corrected....... he was doing drugs again, someone saw him last week high.

Texana
07-29-2007, 09:24 PM
I'm very sorry, Mr. Bean ,that you missed my point, entirely. I was not bashing victims..raising pertinent questions, possibly..bashing, no. I've never felt that this board was strictly for victim sympathizing..thought it was to discuss facts and opinions..am I wrong?

Jumping in for Mr. Bean (;) WS has always had a longstanding policy of being careful to not cast aspersions on the victims until it was well proven that they were not victims.

The comments the doctor made in the eulogy were not enough IMO to even begin to think he had any involvement in this.

I agree with Pedinurse, this was his last and final chance to talk publicly about his relationship with his family, and how they interacted, etc. From now on it will always be "past tense." He did talk about the special qualities and achievements of his them overall, but in order for it to truly be an "all about me" speech he would talked much longer about how upset he was, how alone he would be, and how devastated he was by their deaths.

He did not focus on that. He seemed to be trying to salvage some measure of meaning from their deaths. If anything, it was especially pathetic to me in the way that people seem desperate to find something that will live on after their loved ones are gone.

JBean
07-29-2007, 09:27 PM
Thank you, JBean for posting the link to the video. Yes, so very touching for sure. What an exceptional man.

God bless him.
I am with you Sweetmop. Talk about intestinal fortitude.

JBean
07-29-2007, 09:29 PM
JMO, I think the two perps confessed early to what they did and how they did it, they probably couldn't believe their ears when told Dr. Petit survived. They were prevented from destroying any evidence on their person's or in the vehicles. I don't think LE needed much info from the Dr. when all was said.
I think you are correct CD.

jilly
07-29-2007, 09:29 PM
I am pointing out discrepancies, as I see them..we are all inclined to come to our own conclusions, and I am posting mine...so, as much as this will invoke your ire, yes, I am....

Hi fairydusted and welcome!

To be quite honest with you, I thought the Doctor was still in shock. Had to be, don't you think? Yes, he did talk about himself and I took that as confusion. I don't think he's had the chance to put this together. At the very end, he started to break down.

Perhaps someone is here with some psychological background. I'm not experienced in this area but when he talked about his daughter's essay about her Dad, that could have been construed as guilt on his part. Here's his daughter looking up to her Dad as the greatest and in the end he could not protect her from this heinous crime. Just a thought.

JBean
07-29-2007, 09:32 PM
Jumping in for Mr. Bean (;) WS has always had a longstanding policy of being careful to not cast aspersions on the victims until it was well proven that they were not victims.

The comments the doctor made in the eulogy were not enough IMO to even begin to think he had any involvement in this.

I agree with Pedinurse, this was his last and final chance to talk publicly about his relationship with his family, and how they interacted, etc. From now on it will always be "past tense." He did talk about the special qualities and achievements of his them overall, but in order for it to truly be an "all about me" speech he would talked much longer about how upset he was, how alone he would be, and how devastated he was by their deaths.

He did not focus on that. He seemed to be trying to salvage some measure of meaning from their deaths. If anything, it was especially pathetic to me in the way that people seem desperate to find something that will live on after their loved ones are gone.
I just thought he did his best to dignify them and have their last memory be not about murder and mayhem, but about their lives.
The man has got to be in shock.

Reannan
07-29-2007, 09:40 PM
In defense of fairdusted, when I first watched the video of Dr. Petit at the memorial service, I must say that I was also a bit dumbstruck at how good he looked to have been beaten with a baseball bat. I would have expected severe bruising, and evan a cast on his arm or leg. I am not ready or willing to say that he was somehow involved with this horrendous crime. I stand in awe of his strength, if the truth as we currently know it to be stands the test of time, and he is indeed a victim. I stand in awe of what would be a new level of evil if the facts eventually reveal that he was involved. One thing for sure, if Dr. Petit was involved, these two creeps will roll on him like butter over a hot griddle in the very near future. Logistically, I think he would have planned for a cleaner get away for the two SOB's, so I am betting he is an amazingly strong man. I sure hope I am right.

FlowerChild
07-29-2007, 09:54 PM
From what I read the Dr only had the strength to speak for about 10 minutes. I am sure he is in worse shape than he looks - heavy dose of Vicodin probably.

They have the perps in custody and are considering the death penalty - I do not think the Dr had ANYTHING to do with this. It's rather ghoulish of us to consider him a suspect just because the funeral isn't for all FOUR of them. If the police hadn't arrived and he hadn't gotten out, we'd be looking at an entire family dead and NO-ONE in custody. There is no evidence at ALL beyond that he is alive and not dead.

My Opinion

SisterMadly
07-29-2007, 09:54 PM
Were Dr. Petit in any way involved, these two bottom-feeders would surely have mentioned it by now. In fact, I'm surprised they didn't make it up as an excuse.

I can't remember any other story that I have read on WS affecting me in such a matter. It makes me feel so unsafe, and so heartbroken for this family.

sweetmop
07-29-2007, 09:56 PM
Thanks for posting this, JBean. I watched the first two minutes and, honestly, I'm just too emotionally fragile today to get through the whole thing. Maybe I'll feel better tomorrow.

southcitymom, this case is the most horrendous, most upsetting that I've ever seen!

It disturbs anyone who cares about their fellow human beings. Anyone who has a heart! It's so sad , so senseless. And it's very hard to wrap our minds around someone hell bent on destroying others, as these 2 monsters did!

But, in the mean time, southcitymom, please take care of yourself!


I really hope you're feeling better tomorrow.

((((((( ))))))) ... hugs for you! :)

PSUfan
07-29-2007, 10:03 PM
From what I read the Dr only had the strength to speak for about 10 minutes. I am sure he is in worse shape than he looks - heavy dose of Vicodin probably.

They have the perps in custody and are considering the death penalty - I do not think the Dr had ANYTHING to do with this. It's rather ghoulish of us to consider him a suspect just because the funeral isn't for all FOUR of them. If the police hadn't arrived and he hadn't gotten out, we'd be looking at an entire family dead and NO-ONE in custody. There is no evidence at ALL beyond that he is alive and not dead.

My Opinion I agree. But knowing history, the surviving spouse is often a suspect. I am sure the detectives have considered this, and if they say that they are satisfied that they have the suspects, then I believe them. You can bet that the detectives will look at all angles, trying to figure out the motive.. why this family was chosen, etc.

Regarding Dr.Petits memorial service statements. I couldn't watch the whole thing. What I did watch almost felt wrong to watch... like an invasion on his privacy. He was struggling so much to get through it IMO, and was probably still in shock, and medicated. I feel so sorry for him, when it is all over... when it really hits him, and he realizes how alone he is now.

fairydusted
07-29-2007, 10:03 PM
The most difficult aspect of all of this for me to conceive, is the horrible raping of their daughter(s)..I believe we all agree on that. I also believe that no parent, in my realm of thinking, would ever promote, or agree to that. Having said that, it seems to be the primary aspect that separates this crime from many other crimes that ARE family involved, in the WS court of opinion. And finally, for the record, I wish more than anything to be proven wrong.....

sweetmop
07-29-2007, 10:06 PM
Heart break. The New York Post has a haunting picture on the front page and their article broke my heart too.

http://www.nypost.com/

Thank you for the link CarpeDiem. Heartbreaking!


Please take a look at this photo, fairydusted.

Reannan
07-29-2007, 10:18 PM
Thank you Sweetmop for the NY Post link. I agree with everyone who has posted about how much this case has gotten under "our" skin. By "our", I mean those of us who read this stuff day in and day out, and are probably about as jaded to the horrors of the world as anyone can possibly be with the exception of perhaps, a homicide cop. It sort of makes you want to take turns staying up at night guarding your children. I can share something that my husband and I do on a periodic time period. We actually do "practice" runs regarding home invasion scenarios. With all of the lights off, we lay down in the bed, and pretend to hear someone downstairs. We then actually get up, get our guns, and walk through a rehersal of what we would do. Hopefully, if the real thing ever happens, we will at least have some sense of control. Real life unfortunately, does not reveal itself according to late night scripts, so I am sure we would be in for a surprise. I can also assure you, however, that the intruder would be in for a surprise, and would at least suffer some injuries - hopefully, fatal ones.

fairydusted
07-29-2007, 10:33 PM
SweetMop..I looked at the photo..it shows the forehead gash, and black eyes that I mentioned earlier, nothing else. Victims of head trauma , with those type of weapons, NORMALLY have severe swelling and bruising that takes quite a while to disappear..the assailants had very good aim to have not caused any more physical damage than they did to him..the statement that he was "beaten to the point of being unrecognizable" was most likely incorrect.

Pinkhammer
07-29-2007, 11:15 PM
There's no way this man could have been involved in such a brutal crime. Look at his background...healer, beloved father, devoted husband.

Besides, when doctors kill, they usually do the job themselves. They don't trust anyone else to do it right.

Anyone who's been reading on Websleuths for a number of years should know this.

pedinurse
07-29-2007, 11:34 PM
Hi fairydusted and welcome!

To be quite honest with you, I thought the Doctor was still in shock. Had to be, don't you think? Yes, he did talk about himself and I took that as confusion. I don't think he's had the chance to put this together. At the very end, he started to break down.

Perhaps someone is here with some psychological background. I'm not experienced in this area but when he talked about his daughter's essay about her Dad, that could have been construed as guilt on his part. Here's his daughter looking up to her Dad as the greatest and in the end he could not protect her from this heinous crime. Just a thought.

I also thought that too. He was talking about feeling safe, and pretty much got the point across (I can't remember if he came out and said it) that he was kind of apphrensive about leaving he hospital that day because the staff at the hospital he was at (which was not one he usually worked at, I took it) did make him feel safe. He thanked them for that. I thought that was nice as well. I could COMPLETELY understand his apprehension. Gosh, that would be like the next step... then I left the hospital... and my life started again without my family. I cannot even begin to imagine what today (the day after the memorial service) would have been like for him. God bless that poor man. And didn't Hayley's essay say something about the hospital being safe? So there was all a tie in there? It really all did have a purpose.

From Hayley's essay -
"His presence made the hospital seem a fortress and anyone within its walls safe."

You know... I bet this is just part of himself beating himself up. He's the one who went downstairs and met the guys breaking in... He didn't end up keeping the family safe... he wasn't able to, they were just too strong. You know what I mean? That's how I would take him bringing this up. I was watching this thing again, I wouldn't take what he was saying as completely organized - I agree with another poster who says he looks medicated. Heck, I would need to be. But gosh, I give him kudos for holding it together and not completely breaking down.

nanandjim
07-29-2007, 11:46 PM
...Look at his background...healer, beloved father, devoted husband.
This is one of the reasons why I don't think that he was involved.


Anyone who's been reading on Websleuths for a number of years should know this.
I have been a member here for a number of years. Unfortunately, this is the reason that I almost immediately suspect that someone close was involved.

Schmerty_Jones
07-29-2007, 11:47 PM
I have not been so horrified & depressed by this expression of the depraved , cruel ,lack of any redeeming reason to draw breathes on this earth by these two peices of filth. Being so close to the lifestyle & common structure of this Family & knowing what an educated , loving close-knit family like this is,I can imagine the devastation this wonderful man, father, husband & doctor,healer is going through.

To hear people say because they are a friend of criminals, or a nurse in a hospital say that they believe the crime was commited by the father because he healed too well& that the criminal would not rape or murder because he had not done it before... but the Father MD ,would rape his own wife & baby girl is so revolting, revolting I just vomited.
I think I should not be posting on this board. I think I will take a long ,hot shower, & a long break from this board. For those of you who posted or who can bear to read that kind of spurious :sick: God have mercy on you & spare you what this family have gone thru. Or maybe you would be better victims because you would know where to place the blame& solve the crime.

sweetmop
07-29-2007, 11:49 PM
There is no way that Dr. Petit is involved in this horrific crime. Absolutely no way!
In watching the video of him speaking at the memorial service, he appears to be in shock.
Plus, I was thinking about the report mentioning that when he was seen by neighbors, after escaping from the basement and he was unrecognizable, I imagine that he was covered in blood all over his face, hair, and shirt, to say the least. I bet he really did look scarey and was unrecognizable.

I know that everyone here is entitled to their opinions, of course. I just think it is such a horrible crime and the poor man did manage to survive.

I'm sure he will have alot of difficulties in coming to terms with his survival and his wife and daughter's deaths when all the friends and familily have gone home and he is left alone to deal with his life day to day.

I pray that the poor man is able to carry on his life, and not be forever tormented by this horrific event in his life.

philamena
07-30-2007, 12:10 AM
IMO, fairydusted added some food for thought.
Think about the brutally of the injuries the females in the house received then look at the doctor. Two black eyes and a cut on his forehead.
I'm certainly not a nurse but I worked in the dental field for many years as an asst. I've seen someone who's been beaten on the face with a bat. They simply don't only suffer black eyes. Usually several facial bones are broken along with teeth.
Not accusing the dr. Just pointing out that IMO fairydusted brought up a fair point.

CaliKid
07-30-2007, 12:49 AM
I watched the video, and what I saw was a very brave man trying to remember his family with dignity, love and honor, with a dash of comedy thrown in by way of family anecdotes. He looked like he was at the end of his emotional rope, and I wouldn't want to be Dr. Petit for anything.


The most difficult aspect of all of this for me to conceive, is the horrible raping of their daughter(s)..I believe we all agree on that. I also believe that no parent, in my realm of thinking, would ever promote, or agree to that. Having said that, it seems to be the primary aspect that separates this crime from many other crimes that ARE family involved, in the WS court of opinion. And finally, for the record, I wish more than anything to be proven wrong.....

Actually for me, the most horrible aspect is burning them alive. I just cannot in a million years understand how a human being could do that to another.

RoughlyCollie
07-30-2007, 01:10 AM
Not to mention that we have no idea what his body looks like under his clothing. I bet he is covered in bruises and welts, at least.


I have not been so horrified & depressed by this expression of the depraved , cruel ,lack of any redeeming reason to draw breathes on this earth by these two peices of filth. Being so close to the lifestyle & common structure of this Family & knowing what an educated , loving close-knit family like this is,I can imagine the devastation this wonderful man, father, husband & doctor,healer is going through.

To hear people say because they are a friend of criminals, or a nurse in a hospital say that they believe the crime was commited by the father because he healed too well& that the criminal would not rape or murder because he had not done it before... but the Father MD ,would rape his own wife & baby girl is so revolting, revolting I just vomited.
I think I should not be posting on this board. I think I will take a long ,hot shower, & a long break from this board. For those of you who posted or who can bear to read that kind of spurious :sick: God have mercy on you & spare you what this family have gone thru. Or maybe you would be better victims because you would know where to place the blame& solve the crime.

eleven
07-30-2007, 01:38 AM
:doh: Anyone insinuating that the Dad had something to do with this is forgetting one minor (hugely major, actually) detail.....the suspects were caught fleeing the scene of the crime!

Sure, in the majority of cases like this, the perp is usually someone very close to the family--EXCEPT when the suspects are caught in the act!

MagicRose99
07-30-2007, 07:10 AM
:doh: Anyone insinuating that the Dad had something to do with this is forgetting one minor (hugely major, actually) detail.....the suspects were caught fleeing the scene of the crime!

Sure, in the majority of cases like this, the perp is usually someone very close to the family--EXCEPT when the suspects are caught in the act!

I am with you and the other's here who believe the father had nothing to do with this.

It saddens me that people are so cynical that they look for things that aren't in evidence. While I know the stats that say the "SO" is usually involved, there are exceptions... and I believe this is one of the exceptions.

Lola
07-30-2007, 07:11 AM
I have been a member here for a number of years. Unfortunately, this is the reason that I almost immediately suspect that someone close was involved.

Perhaps it is because the alternative is even more horrible. There are people in our own neighborhoods capable of a level of violence and depravity that is beyond our imagining. Unfortunately, I believe that is the case here.

southcitymom
07-30-2007, 07:32 AM
No worries! You don't bother me :)
But,as you know from reading the last 3 years, we cannot bash victims here. Just the way it is.

Good point, JBean, but who's a victim is entirely subjective. On this board, the Mods are Gods and they decide what potential victims can be bashed. Think Ramsey, Routier and others.

I'm not complaining, just clarifying that the "we don't bash victims" party line means different things to different people.

Although I don't think the doctor was involved in this crime, I do think some good points have been raised (his wounds did not seem as terrible as I thought they would be when there were first described and I did find the eulogy (which I have finally listened too) odd). I am sure LE looked at him as a potential subject because it would be irresponsible not to.

southcitymom
07-30-2007, 07:34 AM
:doh: Anyone insinuating that the Dad had something to do with this is forgetting one minor (hugely major, actually) detail.....the suspects were caught fleeing the scene of the crime!

Sure, in the majority of cases like this, the perp is usually someone very close to the family--EXCEPT when the suspects are caught in the act!

I don't think the doctor was involved either, but there are plenty of cases where a close family member is in cahoots with the actual perpatrators of the crime. So catching the suspects leaving the scene does not exonerate another potential involved party.

wildTrose
07-30-2007, 08:11 AM
If the wife and daughters had just been killed and not raped, and basically burned alive, then Id be more suspicous of the father but i think there are a very rare few who would want their family dead and then sit back and listen as his 11 year old daughter is being raped, and his other daughter, and then to listen to them scream as the flames reach them I dont think this man could have done that....murder them....yes we've all read about many many cases on here where that happens but to go to this extreme i dont think thats the case this time
You all really need to remember he is a DR. he has seen ALOT of death, alot of abuse, DR.s have to be able to shut off their emotions as DR.s thats what your seeing he is greiving, I think he is just greiving his own way.

southcitymom
07-30-2007, 08:18 AM
If the wife and daughters had just been killed and not raped, and basically burned alive, then Id be more suspicous of the father but i think there are a very rare few who would want their family dead and then sit back and listen as his 11 year old daughter is being raped, and his other daughter, and then to listen to them scream as the flames reach them I dont think this man could have done that....murder them....yes we've all read about many many cases on here where that happens but to go to this extreme i dont think thats the case this time
You all really need to remember he is a DR. he has seen ALOT of death, alot of abuse, DR.s have to be able to shut off their emotions as DR.s thats what your seeing he is greiving, I think he is just greiving his own way.

You are right that there is simply nothing to indicate that this father would allow his wife and daughters to be subject to such brutalities. Even if he did want then dead for some reason, I can't imagine he wanted them tortured.

As I have said several times, I do not think he was involved, but I think it is absolutely reasonable to explore that possibility as respectfully as possible.

JBean
07-30-2007, 10:22 AM
Good point, JBean, but who's a victim is entirely subjective. On this board, the Mods are Gods and they decide what potential victims can be bashed. Think Ramsey, Routier and others.

I'm not complaining, just clarifying that the "we don't bash victims" party line means different things to different people.

Although I don't think the doctor was involved in this crime, I do think some good points have been raised (his wounds did not seem as terrible as I thought they would be when there were first described and I did find the eulogy (which I have finally listened too) odd). I am sure LE looked at him as a potential subject because it would be irresponsible not to.HI SCM.
I would guess that LE has already looked at the doctor and ruled him out.

Fairydusted was up front with the fact that she was accusing him in one of her posts and I appreciate her honesty of course.


Are you suggesting the doctor is in cahoots with the murderer?

I am pointing out discrepancies, as I see them..we are all inclined to come to our own conclusions, and I am posting mine...so, as much as this will invoke your ire, yes, I am....


Also,I do not find this respectful and is what prompted my initial response:


More telling than all of this, was the fact that he made the Memorial service all about HIM..self-grandizing about HIS life and career, his accomplishments..in the essay he quoted of Hayleys, he focused on paragraphs that told how great HE was..and lastly, his attempt at stand-up comedy was completely inappropriate..his ease at being entertaining for that heartwrenching occasion was very alarming. This man should have had more injuries, incapacities, or heartbreak than he displayed, if we are to find his story believable.
If the discussion should turn to this kind of talk,it will remind me of those that blamed Sharon and Ron for Laci's death. JMHO of course.

The doctor has not been considered a POI, there are 2 perps in custody that were seen fleeing from the scene.
If the issue is that these 2 perps were not "qualified" to pull off such violence with their backgrounds, then why in the world would the doctor choose theses two criminals to torture, maim,rape, and murder his family?
That makes no sense at all.

While my intial intention was to keep us from going down the road of the quoted info and speaking ill of this doctor, I shouldn't have tried to censor the conversation. rather I should censor myself. :)

jilly
07-30-2007, 10:29 AM
I also thought that too. He was talking about feeling safe, and pretty much got the point across (I can't remember if he came out and said it) that he was kind of apphrensive about leaving he hospital that day because the staff at the hospital he was at (which was not one he usually worked at, I took it) did make him feel safe. He thanked them for that. I thought that was nice as well. I could COMPLETELY understand his apprehension. Gosh, that would be like the next step... then I left the hospital... and my life started again without my family. I cannot even begin to imagine what today (the day after the memorial service) would have been like for him. God bless that poor man. And didn't Hayley's essay say something about the hospital being safe? So there was all a tie in there? It really all did have a purpose.

From Hayley's essay -
"His presence made the hospital seem a fortress and anyone within its walls safe."

You know... I bet this is just part of himself beating himself up. He's the one who went downstairs and met the guys breaking in... He didn't end up keeping the family safe... he wasn't able to, they were just too strong. You know what I mean? That's how I would take him bringing this up. I was watching this thing again, I wouldn't take what he was saying as completely organized - I agree with another poster who says he looks medicated. Heck, I would need to be. But gosh, I give him kudos for holding it together and not completely breaking down.

I agree with every word. Good catch on the essay - I missed that.

If this was me, I'd be on suicide watch. It's going to be a long long road for this poor man.He's 50 years old. :( With his work, the support of his huge family and his strong faith in God he may be able to heal a little.

nanandjim
07-30-2007, 10:45 AM
IMO, fairydusted added some food for thought.
Think about the brutally of the injuries the females in the house received then look at the doctor. Two black eyes and a cut on his forehead.
I'm certainly not a nurse but I worked in the dental field for many years as an asst. I've seen someone who's been beaten on the face with a bat. They simply don't only suffer black eyes. Usually several facial bones are broken along with teeth.
Not accusing the dr. Just pointing out that IMO fairydusted brought up a fair point.

I agree.

mrs.kravitz
07-30-2007, 10:48 AM
I thought I saw a huge lump on the back of the dr's head in one photo, I'm sure he got beaten quite severely. Wouldn't you imagine that as they are kicking and beating him with a bat, the natural instinct would be to put your arms up to protect your face. We didn't see what was under his clothes, but I'm willing to bet he has some broken ribs and substantial bruising. That he was able to speak at all is by the grace of God. I really believe that he has to be tapping into his faith-and the faith that his wife and daughters had-to be able to go on.

crypto6
07-30-2007, 11:22 AM
IMO, fairydusted added some food for thought.
Think about the brutally of the injuries the females in the house received then look at the doctor. Two black eyes and a cut on his forehead.
I'm certainly not a nurse but I worked in the dental field for many years as an asst. I've seen someone who's been beaten on the face with a bat. They simply don't only suffer black eyes. Usually several facial bones are broken along with teeth.
Not accusing the dr. Just pointing out that IMO fairydusted brought up a fair point.


If most of the concussive force is on the thicker bones of the back of the head, you may see very little external damage in massive traumatic injuries. Nothing about this case medically makes me think the Dr is involved.

The females' injuries from their torture were not life-threateing except the ultimate acts. The Dr's head-injury speaks to rage, control, the desire to damage the person at their core. For a Dr like him, beating his brain is that damage. The acts against the women are psycological/sexual torture with profound sadism. Two different target types (male and female) and at least two different methods of assault. If you don't hit someone repeatedly in the right places with a bat, they can come through with min/mod dmage which will usually heal even though the injury force is tremendous.

Crypto6

englishleigh
07-30-2007, 11:24 AM
I don't for one second believe the doctor had anything to do with this. We should be praying for him, not accusing him. I usually am one of the first to have my hinky meter go crazy....in this case, it is silent.

Lola
07-30-2007, 11:37 AM
I don't for one second believe the doctor had anything to do with this. We should be praying for him, not accusing him. I usually am one of the first to have my hinky meter go crazy....in this case, it is silent.

I concur with my learned colleague. The doctor had nothing to do with this horror. He is also a victim, let's not make it worse.

Linda7NJ
07-30-2007, 11:40 AM
Something about ths story has my hinky meter going off, something just isn't right..........can put my finger on it..yet

englishleigh
07-30-2007, 11:47 AM
I think if the dr. had hired these monsters to take out his family, they would have squealed on him by now to LE.

Edited to add: I think they thought they had beaten him to the point that he would die in the basement, that he was unconscious and the fire would get him if he didn't die of his injuries. They were wrong.

CarpeDiem
07-30-2007, 12:17 PM
I don't for one second believe the doctor had anything to do with this. We should be praying for him, not accusing him. I usually am one of the first to have my hinky meter go crazy....in this case, it is silent.

ITA. :clap:

pedinurse
07-30-2007, 12:48 PM
hey guys... i have had some head injury victims that looked great and went down the tubes FAST, and some that looked like had been beaten to a pulp and were perfectly stable and fine. it all depends on the mechanism of injury. so... i wouldn't judge the serverity of his injuries on the way he "looked". the person who said that she was a nurse who worked in a major trauma center should know that! geez louise! If the were to the back / sides of the head rather than to the front due to him defending himself (defensive positioning is usually to the face and top of the head) along with the trunk, then yes, I could see his face not being as effected as many would have thought. Doesn't make him a suspect. yes, many do look like they have just been through the wringer... but some who are JUST as seriously ill look can OK and have traumatic internal injuries to the head and trunk (can VERY much be the case with closed head injuries). if he had some open lacerations (cuts) that have been well repaired, he could be looking a lot better now than when he was on the lawn... with all the blood. cuts to the face and scalp bleed a LOT (ever watch profesional wrestling? my husband says they cut themselves with little razors for effect or at least used to - it looks like have lost a whole unit by the time the match is over!). i'll tell you, after the first bath sometimes... they are new people just because we get all the blood, dirt, ect off. anyway... i thought i read in one of the articles that the hosptial had said that he did have a pretty severe closed head injury - did i not? i think his face looks bruised and swollen. i hope he heals OK and is able to go back to work and help other people like he has for many years before. :twocents:

crypto6
07-30-2007, 01:08 PM
Something about ths story has my hinky meter going off, something just isn't right..........can put my finger on it..yet
Even though I don't think the Dr had anything to do with setting up and carrying out this atrocity, I'd like to hear more about why he was initially kept alive. My theory is that they were going to get more info from him, perhaps a safe or some money hidden in the home, and their exit time was significantly shortened since the house went down so fast. This doesn't totally fly, though, since they knew he was down there when they set the BR fire and they weren't gonna stand around and try to get more info in the basement of a burning house. Whatever state of mind these guys were in when they first entered the house seems to have worsened beyond recognition as rational thought once they encountered the girls.

What they did after, including going to a bank and holding someone hostage while a w/d of extremely large amounts of cash is made is beyond moronic. They should have known the bank would be suspicious and the cops onto them, and that the amount of gas they used could blow them up along with the house, since they apparently didn't use timers and set the fires while in the house. They definitely became more unglued and self-destructive as the night wore on.

Hinky, yeah; why, I still don't know.

Crypto6

Lola
07-30-2007, 02:03 PM
The night didn't wear on, because according to police the arrived at 3 am. You might want to read some of the local news stories.

http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-update-petit-0726,0,6628655.story

Capital Felony Charges Filed

Authorities Believe Men Followed Mother, Daughter From Supermarket Hours Before Home Invasion

......snip

The suspects, Joshua Komisarjevsky and Steven Hayes, followed the pair back to their Sorghum Mill Drive home, police sources said. Hours later, at about 3 a.m., they would enter the home through a cellar bulkhead door, terrorizing their victims for more than six hours before killing them, police said. They left a beaten Dr. William Petit Jr. for dead in the basement, but he was able to escape before the suspects set the home on fire, authorities said.

crypto6
07-30-2007, 03:08 PM
The night didn't wear on, because according to police the arrived at 3 am. You might want to read some of the local news stories.

http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-update-petit-0726,0,6628655.story

Capital Felony Charges Filed

Authorities Believe Men Followed Mother, Daughter From Supermarket Hours Before Home Invasion

......snip

The suspects, Joshua Komisarjevsky and Steven Hayes, followed the pair back to their Sorghum Mill Drive home, police sources said. Hours later, at about 3 a.m., they would enter the home through a cellar bulkhead door, terrorizing their victims for more than six hours before killing them, police said. They left a beaten Dr. William Petit Jr. for dead in the basement, but he was able to escape before the suspects set the home on fire, authorities said.

terrorizing their victims for more than six hours
Huh. Six hours with three of them in the dark in the AM sounds like a long time to be terrorized and tortured, and certainly qualifies for a night wearing on. I have been following this from initial announcement, reading almost all of the Courant articles and several other related blogs and don't exactly follow the import of your comment (0300 and beyond until daylight is not nighttime, or the three hours being raped and tortured isn't sufficient time to seem horribly long to them, or ???) but if you've got something to help me understand the case better, we'd all like to hear it.

Crypto6

robinparten
07-30-2007, 05:05 PM
I just read some of the local news coverage of this case. The timing of this case is just heartbreaking. The first detective heard at least one of the girls screaming when he arrived, the husband woke up to hear his wife pleading for her life, I mean, it is just haunting. If I were that detective, I would have such a hard time dealing with this case. Just arriving 5 minutes earlier might have saved the entire family - which is not to suggest he did something wrong. It was just so damn close.

Lola
07-30-2007, 05:11 PM
If you read that article and others, then you'll notice that Dr. Petit was not "kept alive", he was assumed dead. Their exit time was shortened by the arrival of the police, wouldn't ya' say??

You'd better go back and get the sequence of events clear in your mind. They knew there was one girl, because they stalked the mother and daughter. After which they went to wal-mart and bought an air rifle and rope. Subsequently Hayes went and bought gasoline around 4/5 in the morning and got lost....

CaliKid
07-30-2007, 05:54 PM
I just don't think I can handle this. It's too raw and visual. Family targeted, break-in planned and tools purchased, dad beaten, children raped, mother forced to withdraw money and strangled, girls burned to death! And these two men want to cite their bad childhoods? Please spare me.

The more I read about the capabilities of what humans do to each other out of spite or for financial gain, the worse it gets. Until what? People complain we're becoming like animals, but animals don't act like this. They only kill to eat or protect themselves. How low can a person sink and not be considered human anymore? Where is our planet going?

Pinkhammer
07-30-2007, 05:57 PM
Schmerty Jones, I am with you. It makes me sick to read that people here are accusing Dr. Petit of some sort of complicity in the murders of his wife and daughters. There is absolutely no evidence to point in that direction. When did some members of Websleuths lose the ability to reason logically? I feel like I'm back in the days when Murphy and jameson ran this site.

I, too, will avoid this thread until the slandering of Dr. Petit ends.

crypto6
07-30-2007, 06:21 PM
If you read that article and others, then you'll notice that Dr. Petit was not "kept alive", he was assumed dead. Their exit time was shortened by the arrival of the police, wouldn't ya' say??

You'd better go back and get the sequence of events clear in your mind. They knew there was one girl, because they stalked the mother and daughter. After which they went to wal-mart and bought an air rifle and rope. Subsequently Hayes went and bought gasoline around 4/5 in the morning and got lost....


Dr. Petit was not "kept alive", he was assumed dead. Their exit time was shortened by the arrival of the police, wouldn't ya' say??

You'd better go back and get the sequence of events clear in your mind.

perhaps a journey to the articles would help, with a review of the questions occasioned by these articles.

First article to describe sequence (http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hcu-family-killed-0724,0,1696148.story?coll=hc_tab01_layout)

Second article to describe sequence (http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-twosuspects0725.artjul25,0,7814115.story?coll=hc_t ab01_layout)


Third article to describe sequence (http://news.aol.com/story/_a/thousands-mourn-doctors-slain-family/20070725152309990001)

Why someone would bind a man they thought was dead, and why he was in the basement are some of the more sophisticated questions posters have asked. These have been discussed and theories adduced. A few theories purport the Dr was unequivocally assumed dead at the time of being tied, but all have a caveat of not being the best explanation based on the evidence given.

I'm sure some of the more involved posters would like to help here to understand the questions being put forth. Your resonses don't help me understand this horrible matter any better, so I won't receive your comments until one of the astute posters works one of your theories into advancing the case for us.

Crypto6

simplesimon
07-30-2007, 06:28 PM
I am pretty jaded when reading/hearing about murders of families, that is what Susan Smith, OJ, Scott Patterson has did for me , HOWEVER in this case I saw an intelligent,caring man (probably drugged) give a very moving speech honoring his family. He is still in shock! can you just imagine waking to this horror? I hope he does find the strength to go on so that he can SEE these two pieces of garbage in the court room and have them put to death, even tho they will be treated with more dignity then they deserve.
I still have nightmares about the Harvey family that were wiped out bt two ex-cons(surprise) on New Years day during a home invasion that included killing mom,dad and two little girls and also the burning of the home.
I wake at night when I hear a noise now and get shivers down my spine! how horrible to be attacked in your own home where you are doing nothing but sleeping,relaxing with your family.
The other thing that bothers me is seeing this beautiful Hayley making plans to go to college ,playing basketball ,joining the "row" crew , writing and reading 7 books on her vacation about medicine,energy etc. and compare it to what is on the news about these pathetic girls ala Lindsey,Paris,Britney.The ones that the little girls of today see as role models. I wish those useless party drug users would read this and see what a wasted life they have and learn from these beautiful family the way their life could be lived to the fullest!

fairydusted
07-30-2007, 06:35 PM
To hear people say because they are a friend of criminals, or a nurse in a hospital say that they believe the crime was commited by the father because he healed too well& that the criminal would not rape or murder because he had not done it before... but the Father MD ,would rape his own wife & baby girl is so revolting, revolting I just vomited.
I think I should not be posting on this board. I think I will take a long ,hot shower, & a long break from this board. For those of you who posted or who can bear to read that kind of spurious :sick: God have mercy on you & spare you what this family have gone thru. Or maybe you would be better victims because you would know where to place the blame& solve the crime.[/quote]

Please go back and re-read my posts..I never proposed that the crime was commited by the Father..never said that the Father raped his wife and daughter..never said that he healed too well..never said that the criminals would not rape or murder because they had never done it before..and your last sentence made absolutely no sense....

Txmom
07-30-2007, 06:35 PM
This case is so unreal. I am still shaking my head on this one. The bank that I use will only allow one to withdraw $10,000 in a day without prior notice, so Im wondering what would happen if someone came to the drive thru or the walk in and needed $15,000. Interesting.

And these two scumbags, and thats what they are. The one that has been arrested for 200 thefts/drug charges. What happened to three times and your out??? Sounds like he should have been kept in jail. But now, he has guaranteed himself a place for the rest of his life, and we the public will be alittle safer. He is definately a sick individual, yes rape is a control issue, and he had plenty of opportunities to leave the scene and get help for the family. I would still like to find out more about his childhood, signs of problems, parents in denial, etc. This still would not change my mind that he needs to be jailed forever or recieve the DP.

I am so sickened by what these two have done to this sweet family that I am at a loss of how to make things better for the Dr. He is in such pain, I hope that he is able to get some REALLY good counseling to get thru this tragedy. I am one who always wants to help, make things better, and I cant. Im sad, sick, and discouraged.

CarpeDiem
07-30-2007, 07:05 PM
Dr. Petit story on Inside Edition right now. I have no doubts his survival is a miracle. It was moving.

He had to be helped to the stage. IMO, He looks like he can't breath without pain, or vey well. There is a bad wound on the top of his head in addition to the other's. He also has a lot of make-up on.

jilly
07-30-2007, 07:35 PM
I just read some of the local news coverage of this case. The timing of this case is just heartbreaking. The first detective heard at least one of the girls screaming when he arrived, the husband woke up to hear his wife pleading for her life, I mean, it is just haunting. If I were that detective, I would have such a hard time dealing with this case. Just arriving 5 minutes earlier might have saved the entire family - which is not to suggest he did something wrong. It was just so damn close.

You bring up a good point with the Detective robinparten - in fact, all of LE at the scene here. I'm just reading about this and I'm sick. I don't think anyone (including a cop) is seasoned enough to go on after something like this. Like you say, "it was just so damn close." With what this detective knows now, he might even be wishing that he had shot the two of them at the scene!

jilly
07-30-2007, 09:01 PM
Heads up! This story on LKL right now!

JBean
07-30-2007, 10:40 PM
http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2007/07/30/donations_pour_in_to_remember_victims_of_deadly_ho me_invasion/
Donations pour in to remember victims of deadly home invasion

By Susan Haigh, Associated Press Writer | July 30, 2007
HARTFORD, Conn. --Contributions are beginning to flow to charities honoring the memories of a Cheshire woman and her two daughters slain in their home last week after being held captive for hours by two burglars

We're seeing an overwhelming number of phone calls and donations online," said Lisa Gerrol, president of the Greater Connecticut Chapter of the National Multiple Sclerosis Society, which has received more than $8,000 since Friday.
"People were so overwhelmed by the brutality of the incident that now it's just reassuring to Connecticut and to the community at large that the good in people is coming through now," she said.
At a public memorial service Saturday for his wife, Jennifer Hawke-Petit, 48, and the couple's two daughters, Hayley, 17, and Michaela, 11, Dr. William Petit Jr. urged more than 2,000 attendees to "help a neighbor, fight for a cause, love your family."

JBean
07-30-2007, 10:41 PM
Heads up! This story on LKL right now!
was there any new information J-1?

jilly
07-30-2007, 10:53 PM
was there any new information J-1?

No Jelly - in fact I was kind of ticked off with a couple of his experts - one saying Mrs P did wrong by not doing more in that bank because she was free for a few minutes there. Also, if she was driving, she should have smashed into something. Good grief - I mean the guy is sitting with her probably telling her if she does anything stupid.......

Some psychologist saying that the younger guy (K) had graduated to night goggles with his burglaries and when he met up with Hayes at the half way house or whatever, in her opinion, it formed a chemical reaction.

Also some guy on about securing your house: we should have motion detectors on each corner of our house so that when anyone steps onto your property they all go on. Also some sensor gadget you can buy for $30 which turns on every light, TV etc., in your house when they step on your property.
Also, make your house less pretty.

Coverage was about 15 minutes.

jilly
07-30-2007, 11:05 PM
Steve Huff, a popular blogger has apparently put an end to his comments section because of negativity towards Mr Petit.

Here is an excerpt:

NOTE, 7/27/07

The comments have been closed for the time being. It has been evident since this crime first hit the news that the authorities did NOT suspect Dr. Petit of any complicity in the nightmare visited on his family. This has only been reinforced in subsequent reports. I personally had no such suspicions. I have argued with comments proposing otherwise, but that doesnít stop some people from persistently posting half-assed theories, sometimes based (at least in the case of one commentator) on Dr. Petitís gender. As a fellow member of that gender, needless to say, I found that comment particularly insulting.

Plenty of sleuthing and theorizing has gone on in this blog in other cases, and we (me as the owner and editor and the other folks who post entries) have led the way. Itís certainly encouraged whenever we are led to believe there may be a question as to whether or not a crime has been solved.

That is not the case here. It seems very clear at the moment that police in Cheshire, CT are not looking past Mr. Hayes or Mr. Komisarjevsky, and if they are, they arenít targeting Dr. Petit. William Petit is a victim here, and I personally feel that a certain amount of genderism is playing into the stubborn expressions of suspicion about the doctor in comments posted on this entry. That is, people believing he somehow played a part in the tragedy just because he was a man. Evidently none of the folks coming from that perch have heard of a ďblack widow.Ē Thatís for another blog entry, though.

I run this blog and I wrote this entry, and if you have a problem with me shutting down the comments, too bad. I feel much more sympathy in this instance with the folks who are posting dismayed and offended comments that Dr. Petit is suspected by anyone.

There are a ton of true crime message boards out there to choose from, and you can get your own blog for free at Blogger.com. If you want to keep throwing stones at a man who just lost all the women in his immediate family to unspeakable acts of savagery, you can use either of the options Iíve presented, but you canít use this post.

http://crimeblog.us/?p=513

JBean
07-30-2007, 11:08 PM
No Jelly - in fact I was kind of ticked off with a couple of his experts - one saying Mrs P did wrong by not doing more in that bank because she was free for a few minutes there. Also, if she was driving, she should have smashed into something. Good grief - I mean the guy is sitting with her probably telling her if she does anything stupid.......

Some psychologist saying that the younger guy (K) had graduated to night goggles with his burglaries and when he met up with Hayes at the half way house or whatever, in her opinion, it formed a chemical reaction.

Also some guy on about securing your house: we should have motion detectors on each corner of our house so that when anyone steps onto your property they all go on. Also some sensor gadget you can buy for $30 which turns on every light, TV etc., in your house when they step on your property.
Also, make your house less pretty.

Coverage was about 15 minutes.
Hindsight is always 20-20.
All that advice is great if you are the only one being held captive.
She already had seen what they were capable of.
IMO, she was hoping that being compliant might save her family.

JBean
07-30-2007, 11:11 PM
Steve Huff, a popular blogger has apparently put an end to his comments section because of negativity towards Mr Petit.

Here is an excerpt:

NOTE, 7/27/07

The comments have been closed for the time being. It has been evident since this crime first hit the news that the authorities did NOT suspect Dr. Petit of any complicity in the nightmare visited on his family. This has only been reinforced in subsequent reports. I personally had no such suspicions. I have argued with comments proposing otherwise, but that doesnít stop some people from persistently posting half-assed theories, sometimes based (at least in the case of one commentator) on Dr. Petitís gender. As a fellow member of that gender, needless to say, I found that comment particularly insulting.

Plenty of sleuthing and theorizing has gone on in this blog in other cases, and we (me as the owner and editor and the other folks who post entries) have led the way. Itís certainly encouraged whenever we are led to believe there may be a question as to whether or not a crime has been solved.

That is not the case here. It seems very clear at the moment that police in Cheshire, CT are not looking past Mr. Hayes or Mr. Komisarjevsky, and if they are, they arenít targeting Dr. Petit. William Petit is a victim here, and I personally feel that a certain amount of genderism is playing into the stubborn expressions of suspicion about the doctor in comments posted on this entry. That is, people believing he somehow played a part in the tragedy just because he was a man. Evidently none of the folks coming from that perch have heard of a ďblack widow.Ē Thatís for another blog entry, though.

I run this blog and I wrote this entry, and if you have a problem with me shutting down the comments, too bad. I feel much more sympathy in this instance with the folks who are posting dismayed and offended comments that Dr. Petit is suspected by anyone.

There are a ton of true crime message boards out there to choose from, and you can get your own blog for free at Blogger.com. If you want to keep throwing stones at a man who just lost all the women in his immediate family to unspeakable acts of savagery, you can use either of the options Iíve presented, but you canít use this post.

http://crimeblog.us/?p=513

Thank God.

jilly
07-30-2007, 11:18 PM
Hindsight is always 20-20.
All that advice is great if you are the only one being held captive.
She already had seen what they were capable of.
IMO, she was hoping that being compliant might save her family.

Exactly. In hindsight, I must admit, the guy was careful enough not to blame Mrs Petit, and saying what could have been done. I'll post the transcript later when it comes up.

PSUfan
07-30-2007, 11:31 PM
Exactly. In hindsight, I must admit, the guy was careful enough not to blame Mrs Petit, and saying what could have been done. I'll post the transcript later when it comes up. She had already been through a night of torture. She likely is responsible for the arrest of these scumbags by doing what she was able to do.

The "what ifs" are agonizing though.

I cannot imagine how the Dr. will ever get through this. We didnt even know them, and we agonize over it. What must he be going through. My God. If their is a God, and any right or good at all, I hope he has supernatural comfort and peace wrapped all around him. Nobody should have to endure the thoughts that he must be thinking.

JBean
07-30-2007, 11:36 PM
Exactly. In hindsight, I must admit, the guy was careful enough not to blame Mrs Petit, and saying what could have been done. I'll post the transcript later when it comes up.
Thanks J-1. So many variables this situation could have had any number of outcomes.
I still cannot believe they thought that going into the bank was a good idea
I really wonder if she talked them into waiting until morning and going to the bank.
Perhaps she saw it as her only way to possibly get help.
It almost worked.
ugh.

jilly
07-30-2007, 11:55 PM
Thanks J-1. So many variables this situation could have had any number of outcomes.
I still cannot believe they thought that going into the bank was a good idea
I really wonder if she talked them into waiting until morning and going to the bank.
Perhaps she saw it as her only way to possibly get help.
It almost worked.
ugh.

Well Jelly....I would think she had to make that amount of a withdrawl from a teller. I'm only allowed so much by machine (the way I have it set up for security purposes.) ETA - one of the guests on LKL said she cashed a cheque. I'm confused about this.

I'm surprised the guy waited outside - actually I wonder where exactly he was? He must have felt quite confident that she wouldn't do anything to let her go in on her own. I hate to think of what they'd done up to that point.

jilly
07-30-2007, 11:59 PM
She had already been through a night of torture. She likely is responsible for the arrest of these scumbags by doing what she was able to do.

The "what ifs" are agonizing though.

I cannot imagine how the Dr. will ever get through this. We didnt even know them, and we agonize over it. What must he be going through. My God. If their is a God, and any right or good at all, I hope he has supernatural comfort and peace wrapped all around him. Nobody should have to endure the thoughts that he must be thinking.

I agree.

Here's the transcript for LKL tonite:

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0707/30/lkl.01.html

FlowerChild
07-31-2007, 12:38 AM
Steve Huff, a popular blogger has apparently put an end to his comments section because of negativity towards Mr Petit.

Here is an excerpt:

NOTE, 7/27/07

The comments have been closed for the time being. It has been evident since this crime first hit the news that the authorities did NOT suspect Dr. Petit of any complicity in the nightmare visited on his family. This has only been reinforced in subsequent reports. I personally had no such suspicions. I have argued with comments proposing otherwise, but that doesnít stop some people from persistently posting half-assed theories, sometimes based (at least in the case of one commentator) on Dr. Petitís gender. As a fellow member of that gender, needless to say, I found that comment particularly insulting.
Snip
William Petit is a victim here, and I personally feel that a certain amount of genderism is playing into the stubborn expressions of suspicion about the doctor in comments posted on this entry. That is, people believing he somehow played a part in the tragedy just because he was a man. Evidently none of the folks coming from that perch have heard of a ďblack widow.Ē Thatís for another blog entry, though.
Snip
http://crimeblog.us/?p=513

I have been feeling the same - and I am NOT male. I feel like I am surrounded by a bunch of harpies sometimes. From Jessica Lundsford to this, I feel the 1st words are always "the man did it". And it seems no matter what the evidence, it continues to be brought up by "some" for months and longer. Being male does not automatically make someone guilty of "something", despite men like Scott Peterson and others of his kind.

I have known some real doozies in the "men" department but despite my own experiences with some worthless ones, I do not dislike or suspect all men based simply on them being men. And I do not immediately suspect the closest male to a crime victim of being guilty without evidence.

And yes, women can be just as guilty and twice as devious. And women are MORE likely to get a man to do their dirty work FOR them as well.

I do NOT believe Dr Petit had anything to do with the horrific murders of his family. I guess if he was now brain injured so severely he was unable to tell a dog from a doorknob perhaps everyone would be sure he had nothing to do with this...or maybe not. I get the feeling that nothing, including his death, would convince some people he was innocent.

That's just sad, ladies - I would hope that we, as women, would be more logical as well as more intuitive. We are not "helping" or "solving" if we close our minds to ALL possibilities except one - that no matter what happened - even if someone else has the smoking gun in their hand - that the REAL guilty party is the (fill in the blank) husband, boyfriend, ex, father, son, brother, uncle, grandfather, baby daddy........

My Opinion, Really

JBean
07-31-2007, 12:41 AM
Well Jelly....I would think she had to make that amount of a withdrawl from a teller. I'm only allowed so much by machine (the way I have it set up for security purposes.) ETA - one of the guests on LKL said she cashed a cheque. I'm confused about this.

I'm surprised the guy waited outside - actually I wonder where exactly he was? He must have felt quite confident that she wouldn't do anything to let her go in on her own. I hate to think of what they'd done up to that point.
I am sure she would have had to use a teller. Didn't the reports say she got word to a teller? I have to give 24 hours notice if I am withdrawing more than 10k in the bank. So maybe that was a red flag to begin with? Maybe that is why she chose that amount? More red tape? I don't know.
The whole thing just is so sickening.

JBean
07-31-2007, 12:48 AM
I have been feeling the same - and I am NOT male. I feel like I am surrounded by a bunch of harpies sometimes. From Jessica Lundsford to this, I feel the 1st words are always "the man did it". And it seems no matter what the evidence, it continues to be brought up by "some" for months and longer. Being male does not automatically make someone guilty of "something", despite men like Scott Peterson and others of his kind.


My Opinion, Really
Hi FC. As the mother of all sons, I really hate it when the SO-male is the first suspect. But of course it is the stats that lead most to look in that direction.
In this case, there is no reason to be suspicious of him, IMO.
I understand that he must be ruled out intially, but I think it was done right away.
I have nothing but sympathy and prayer for this man.

FlowerChild
07-31-2007, 01:06 AM
Well Jelly....I would think she had to make that amount of a withdrawl from a teller. I'm only allowed so much by machine (the way I have it set up for security purposes.) ETA - one of the guests on LKL said she cashed a cheque. I'm confused about this.

I'm surprised the guy waited outside - actually I wonder where exactly he was? He must have felt quite confident that she wouldn't do anything to let her go in on her own. I hate to think of what they'd done up to that point.

She probably cashed a check for "cash" - that's how I do it. And yes, it's usually questioned if the amount is more than $10K in CASH - like not immediately put into a wire transfer or a cashier's check. They also make you provide more than one form of ID and ask WHY the funds are being withdrawn - especially if it is not normal for you to withdraw large amounts of cash.

The "SOB" was waiting outside because he knew if he went in, the bank was likely going to have him arrested on the spot, and if not, he'd be witnessed by people with her and be on surveillance footage. The creep really thought, at the time, that he was going to get away with it. I still think that they planned to leave NO witnesses or evidence - dead burned bodies in a burned down house. If the creeps hadn't been so greedy AND Mrs Petit hadn't done what she did, it's VERY likely we'd either think the husband DID do it (murder suicide) or have NO IDEA who did do it. There wouldn't have been much evidence left - they made sure of THAT.

We need to know what happened so that steps can be taken to perhaps increase the chances of a more positive outcome the NEXT TIME - but the people who are at fault are not LE, and not the bank. Fault must ALL be placed at the feet of the two NOTHINGS who did this. The best we can HOPE for is that the NEXT time, innocent victims will be saved (and that maybe the perps will run into a very trigger happy cop). I do not know how the cops do it - I would have walked right over and shot them in the squad car and felt good about doing it, even if I lost my job and had to plead temporary insanity. I would have been happy to work at the local fast food joint forever if I could have walked up to Dr Petit that night and told him they were already dead and burning in hell.

My Opinion, Really

JBean
07-31-2007, 01:32 AM
Well Jelly....I would think she had to make that amount of a withdrawl from a teller. I'm only allowed so much by machine (the way I have it set up for security purposes.) ETA - one of the guests on LKL said she cashed a cheque. I'm confused about this.

I'm surprised the guy waited outside - actually I wonder where exactly he was? He must have felt quite confident that she wouldn't do anything to let her go in on her own. I hate to think of what they'd done up to that point.
OH Jilly I just re read your post and I think you misunderstood what I was asking. What I meant was, I wonder if the perps had no intention of going to the bank at all. So, my question is whether she tried to entice them by promising them more money if they waited until morning and she could get them more cash. Perhaps she was trying to buy time and plead with them. Regarding the check, I would just guess she cashed one of her own checks, if that is what you are asking.

JBean
07-31-2007, 01:35 AM
I also wonder if Hayes had to call the partner at the Petit home every few minutes so he would know all was well. Maybe she was led to believe if Hayes didn't call his partner every few minutes then he would kill the girls right then and there.
I can only imagine how frightened this woman must have been.

jilly
07-31-2007, 01:38 AM
OH Jilly I just re read your post and I think you misunderstood what I was asking. What I meant was, I wonder if the perps had no intention of going to the bank at all. So, my question is whether she tried to entice them by promising them more money if they waited until morning and she could get them more cash. Perhaps she was trying to buy time and plead with them. Regarding the check, I would just guess she cashed one of her own checks, if that is what you are asking.

Ahhhhh! Yes, I did!:banghead: Sorry. You could be right.

New details on Komisarjevsky..... Anderson Cooper just had a reporter on - interviewing an unidentified female who has been friends with this guy for 7 years. I just caught the last minute so I'm going to read the transcript. I did hear her say that he was wearing an ankle minitor up until the Friday before this when it was removed.

Transcript - scroll down 3/4 - Line starts:

Cooper: a vigil tonight....

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0707/30/acd.01.html

JBean
07-31-2007, 01:46 AM
Ahhhhh! Yes, I did!:banghead: Sorry. You could be right.

New details on Komisarjevsky..... Anderson Cooper just had a reporter on - interviewing an unidentified female who has been friends with this guy for 7 years. I just caught the last minute so I'm going to read the transcript. I did hear her say that he was wearing an ankle minitor up until the Friday before this when it was removed.

Transcript - scroll down 3/4 - Line starts:

Cooper: a vigil tonight....

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0707/30/acd.01.htmlthanks for all the coverage info..going to link.

jilly
07-31-2007, 01:48 AM
She probably cashed a check for "cash" - that's how I do it. I'd forgotten about this method which I haven't done for years. Thank you!And yes, it's usually questioned if the amount is more than $10K in CASH - like not immediately put into a wire transfer or a cashier's check. They also make you provide more than one form of ID and ask WHY the funds are being withdrawn - especially if it is not normal for you to withdraw large amounts of cash.

The "SOB" was waiting outside because he knew if he went in, the bank was likely going to have him arrested on the spot, and if not, he'd be witnessed by people with her and be on surveillance footage. Yes of course! I'm not doing too well tonite!:D The creep really thought, at the time, that he was going to get away with it. I still think that they planned to leave NO witnesses or evidence - dead burned bodies in a burned down house. If the creeps hadn't been so greedy AND Mrs Petit hadn't done what she did, it's VERY likely we'd either think the husband DID do it (murder suicide) or have NO IDEA who did do it. There wouldn't have been much evidence left - they made sure of THAT. I absolutely agree!

We need to know what happened so that steps can be taken to perhaps increase the chances of a more positive outcome the NEXT TIME - but the people who are at fault are not LE, and not the bank. Fault must ALL be placed at the feet of the two NOTHINGS who did this. The best we can HOPE for is that the NEXT time, innocent victims will be saved (and that maybe the perps will run into a very trigger happy cop). I do not know how the cops do it - I would have walked right over and shot them in the squad car and felt good about doing it, even if I lost my job and had to plead temporary insanity.Me too! I would have been happy to work at the local fast food joint forever if I could have walked up to Dr Petit that night and told him they were already dead and burning in hell.

My Opinion, Really

Thanks for your thoughts flowerchild. I think I better go to bed!

pedinurse
07-31-2007, 02:40 AM
Steve Huff, a popular blogger has apparently put an end to his comments section because of negativity towards Mr Petit.

Here is an excerpt:

NOTE, 7/27/07

The comments have been closed for the time being. It has been evident since this crime first hit the news that the authorities did NOT suspect Dr. Petit of any complicity in the nightmare visited on his family. This has only been reinforced in subsequent reports. I personally had no such suspicions. I have argued with comments proposing otherwise, but that doesnít stop some people from persistently posting half-assed theories, sometimes based (at least in the case of one commentator) on Dr. Petitís gender. As a fellow member of that gender, needless to say, I found that comment particularly insulting.

Plenty of sleuthing and theorizing has gone on in this blog in other cases, and we (me as the owner and editor and the other folks who post entries) have led the way. Itís certainly encouraged whenever we are led to believe there may be a question as to whether or not a crime has been solved.

That is not the case here. It seems very clear at the moment that police in Cheshire, CT are not looking past Mr. Hayes or Mr. Komisarjevsky, and if they are, they arenít targeting Dr. Petit. William Petit is a victim here, and I personally feel that a certain amount of genderism is playing into the stubborn expressions of suspicion about the doctor in comments posted on this entry. That is, people believing he somehow played a part in the tragedy just because he was a man. Evidently none of the folks coming from that perch have heard of a ďblack widow.Ē Thatís for another blog entry, though.

I run this blog and I wrote this entry, and if you have a problem with me shutting down the comments, too bad. I feel much more sympathy in this instance with the folks who are posting dismayed and offended comments that Dr. Petit is suspected by anyone.

There are a ton of true crime message boards out there to choose from, and you can get your own blog for free at Blogger.com. If you want to keep throwing stones at a man who just lost all the women in his immediate family to unspeakable acts of savagery, you can use either of the options Iíve presented, but you canít use this post.

http://crimeblog.us/?p=513


Luvvvv mr. huff!!!:dance: good for him for putting the smack down!

pedinurse
07-31-2007, 02:44 AM
She probably cashed a check for "cash" - that's how I do it. And yes, it's usually questioned if the amount is more than $10K in CASH - like not immediately put into a wire transfer or a cashier's check. They also make you provide more than one form of ID and ask WHY the funds are being withdrawn - especially if it is not normal for you to withdraw large amounts of cash.

The "SOB" was waiting outside because he knew if he went in, the bank was likely going to have him arrested on the spot, and if not, he'd be witnessed by people with her and be on surveillance footage. The creep really thought, at the time, that he was going to get away with it. I still think that they planned to leave NO witnesses or evidence - dead burned bodies in a burned down house. If the creeps hadn't been so greedy AND Mrs Petit hadn't done what she did, it's VERY likely we'd either think the husband DID do it (murder suicide) or have NO IDEA who did do it. There wouldn't have been much evidence left - they made sure of THAT.

We need to know what happened so that steps can be taken to perhaps increase the chances of a more positive outcome the NEXT TIME - but the people who are at fault are not LE, and not the bank. Fault must ALL be placed at the feet of the two NOTHINGS who did this. The best we can HOPE for is that the NEXT time, innocent victims will be saved (and that maybe the perps will run into a very trigger happy cop). I do not know how the cops do it - I would have walked right over and shot them in the squad car and felt good about doing it, even if I lost my job and had to plead temporary insanity. I would have been happy to work at the local fast food joint forever if I could have walked up to Dr Petit that night and told him they were already dead and burning in hell.

My Opinion, Really

She might have been afraid that if he saw her (through windows or something) screaming, pointing, making a scene) that he would pick up a cell phone and tell the guy to start shooting her girls, setting them on fire, cutting up people... we don't know WHAT he had threatened Mrs. Petite with. We could probably never imagine... but it had to be BAD for her not to act out. She knew that someone was back there with her girls, and she thought that if she cooperated that she MIGHT be able to go back and try to save them. Thats the only logical explaination.

CarpeDiem
07-31-2007, 02:51 AM
Luvvvv mr. huff!!!:dance: good for him for putting the smack down!

That was a great post Huff made.:woohoo:

Lola
07-31-2007, 04:13 AM
That was a great post Huff made.:woohoo:

Thanks for posting it jilly!

southcitymom
07-31-2007, 07:54 AM
I think if the dr. had hired these monsters to take out his family, they would have squealed on him by now to LE.

Edited to add: I think they thought they had beaten him to the point that he would die in the basement, that he was unconscious and the fire would get him if he didn't die of his injuries. They were wrong.

I agree 100%.

JBean
07-31-2007, 09:40 AM
GMA Exclusive: Alleged Killer's Uncle Speaks Out


Uncle Decries Nephew's 'Horrendous Crimes,' Says 'Justice Needs to Be Done'

The uncle of a burglar accused of killing a wife and her two daughters has spoken out against the "horrendous crimes" committed by his nephew and an accomplice, and is offering his prayers and support to the man who lost his family in the attack.
Christopher Komisarjevsky said that his family would not stand quietly by after his adopted nephew, Joshua Komisarjevsky, allegedly killed Jennifer Hawke-Petit, 48, and her daughters Hayley, 17, and Michaela, 11, after robbing and setting their Chesire, Conn., home ablaze July 23, 2007
snip

Komisarjevsky said that his brother and sister-in-law are in complete shock. "They are devastated. They just don't know how to handle [the] situation because they don't understand it," he said.


http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3429323&page=1

JBean
07-31-2007, 09:47 AM
Path to Parole Becomes Issue in Murder Case

STAMFORD, Conn., July 30 ó Having committed a string of brazen nighttime burglaries by the age of 22, Joshua Komisarjevsky was facing serious time in a state penitentiary when he stood before Judge James M. Bentivegna in late 2002, with his parents, girlfriend and 9-month-old daughter in the gallery.

He told the court he wanted to apologize to his parents, who were sitting in the front row, and only wished his victims had come to court as well so he could tell them, ďI really am sorry for the things I did.Ē He and his lawyer attributed the crime spree in part to personal troubles, including learning disabilities, childhood sexual abuse and the revelation at age 14 that he had been adopted as a baby.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/nyregion/31slay.html?hp

southcitymom
07-31-2007, 10:48 AM
Path to Parole Becomes Issue in Murder Case

STAMFORD, Conn., July 30 ó Having committed a string of brazen nighttime burglaries by the age of 22, Joshua Komisarjevsky was facing serious time in a state penitentiary when he stood before Judge James M. Bentivegna in late 2002, with his parents, girlfriend and 9-month-old daughter in the gallery.

He told the court he wanted to apologize to his parents, who were sitting in the front row, and only wished his victims had come to court as well so he could tell them, ďI really am sorry for the things I did.Ē He and his lawyer attributed the crime spree in part to personal troubles, including learning disabilities, childhood sexual abuse and the revelation at age 14 that he had been adopted as a baby.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/nyregion/31slay.html?hp

That is an interesting article. This is the first time I have read that the mother and Michaela were sexually assaulted, but not Hayley.

JBean
07-31-2007, 11:14 AM
That is an interesting article. This is the first time I have read that the mother and Michaela were sexually assaulted, but not Hayley.
It seems that has been reported consistently. I keep thinking about what details have not been revealed and it scares me to death.

jilly
07-31-2007, 11:45 AM
Thanks for posting it jilly!

YW Lola!

FlowerChild
07-31-2007, 12:27 PM
From the NY Times Article...
"Health officials at Elmcrest, a psychiatric hospital, tried at one point to put Mr. Komisarjevsky on antidepressants, but his parents balked, suggesting their son “deal with it on a spiritual level” and sent him to “a faith program” instead, according to the transcript."

"Mrs. Komisarjevsky said at the sentencing hearing that she did not want her son to have antidepressants because she feared he wanted to overdose"

Huh???
Ok, it certainly is not the parent's fault but they HAD A CHANCE to turn this screwed up mess's head around after he got in trouble the 1st time and they chose another path, one that obviously was not effective. And this is the first I have heard that they took in multiple foster children in addition to their adopted son. Sounds like there was a lack of proper supervision if older children were allowed to abuse younger ones. I guess all THOSE foster children in their care were also treated for any psychiatric issues in a "faith based" program so that they did not risk an "overdose" on Prozac? If they properly controlled ALL medications in their home (as parents should - especially FOSTER parents) and monitored and followed up on Dr visits and counseling when on meds, there would have been no medication related issues. To say they were afraid the boy would OD is a COP OUT - isn't that want PARENTS are for?

It DOES NOT excuse what he did, but for cripes sake why didn't his parents DO SOMETHING for their adopted son when they had the chance? Being proud of him for admitting his crimes and then refusing to allow him to get treatment suggested by mental health professionals was IMO, a form of abuse. He needed MORE than just prayers - he needed every possible scintilla of support and meds available AND major counseling and weekly sessions with a psychiatrist - which he COULD HAVE GOTTEN - before it was too late.

And, I am sorry, but ignorance about psychiatric care on his parent's part is NOT an excuse, they had FOSTER CHILDREN, they should have been properly educated on all possibilities involved in caring for "damaged" children. And FOR SURE they should have been keeping a closer eye if child-on-child abuse occurred. God is wonderful, he put some great Drs and counselors here to HELP troubled children survive the worst possible situations and abuses....but God can't take the kids to treatment or prescribe meds and make the children take them (and monitor them) - parents and guardians must do that much.

I am NOT one who believes that it's always the fault of parents or upbringing when someone's life goes so horribly wrong on every level. It is NOT a defense as far as I am concerned - BUT, we have some pretty blatant issues that raise some questions in this instance. Maybe it wouldn't have worked, maybe he was already too far gone, but they didn't even TRY. Maybe it would have saved 3 lives, we'll never know!!!!

My Opinion, Really

SewingDeb
07-31-2007, 12:43 PM
That is the saddest part of it FlowerChild. Help was recommended and the recommendation was discarded.

JBean
07-31-2007, 12:55 PM
Murder suspect filled man with dread
Phil Helsel, Register Staff
07/31/2007

CHESHIRE ó After Joshua Komisarjevsky was paroled from prison in April, there were some who thought he had cleaned up his act: A judge even gave him custody of his 5-year-old daughter just weeks after he was released.

But Tim Totton, the man engaged to the mother of Komisarjevskyís daughter and who has known Komisarjevksy since 2001, never bought it


Totton told the New Haven Register Monday that Komisarjevsky, a man he called a calculating "manipulator," is smart, speaks well and "puts on a good show." While some thought he had turned his life around, Totton had a nagging feeling that would not subside.

"I was worried from day one, just because I know what heís capable of," Totton, 23, of Hamden, said Monday. "He was talking to the same people the day he got out (of prison) as he was the day before he went in. ... I havenít slept well since he got out of jail

http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18645379&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=517514&rfi=6

JBean
07-31-2007, 12:56 PM
Interesting that there are not (m)any articles about Hayes.

SewingDeb
07-31-2007, 01:13 PM
I was thinking the same thing. I'd like to know about his upbringing and what brought him to this crime.

fran
07-31-2007, 03:42 PM
Interesting that there are not (m)any articles about Hayes.

I too have looked for more about Hayes but not much to be found other than he was an accomplice.

IMO, it may be because Joshua Komisarjevsky is younger, from a very local and prominent family, and his family has made themselves visible, albeit an uncle, they've spoken out.

Hayes, on the other hand, hasn't said much, his family hasn't been anywhere for the MSM to get 'background from,' and he's much older.

This case is horrible all around. From the victims, their family, and the perps and their family too. Just another senseless crime in a world that we are still trying to make sense of.

:(

JMHO
fran

jilly
07-31-2007, 03:44 PM
Do we have this? If so, I apologize.

http://www.wfsb.com/news/13745529/detail.html

ember
07-31-2007, 04:36 PM
Do we have this? If so, I apologize.

http://www.wfsb.com/news/13745529/detail.html

So, if I'm reading this correctly, Hayes strangled/killed Hawke-Petit (the mother) while he was raping her? :furious: And he raped only Hawke-Petit?

So the weasely one, Komisarjevsky, must have raped Michaela, the 11 year old. :furious: :furious:
There is a very fresh hell awaiting him.

Poor Hayley must have heard all of this and endured her own twisted torture.

My God....I just cannot wrap my head around how evil can come together like this. What makes people do this to other people? And to a woman and her tender daughters at that.

The evil in this world scares the hell out of me.
They need to just go ahead and fry these two now. Why waste our money on a fair trial for them?! The thought of that just enrages me more.
Bless the Mr. Petit. How he'll find the path to move on is beyond me.

southcitymom
07-31-2007, 04:43 PM
So, if I'm reading this correctly, Hayes strangled/killed Hawke-Petit (the mother) while he was raping her? :furious: And he raped only Hawke-Petit? .

I don't think it means he strangled her while he was raping her. I think it means the murder occurred during a crime where the sexual assault also occurred. And yes, he only seems to be charged with the sexual assault of the mother.

ember
07-31-2007, 04:50 PM
I don't think it means he strangled her while he was raping her. I think it means the murder occurred during a crime where the sexual assault also occurred. And yes, he only seems to be charged with the sexual assault of the mother.

Thanks SCM for clearing that up, though it's terribly awful either way.


Here is the profile & charges on Komisarjevsky
http://www.wfsb.com/news/13745324/detail.html

JBean
07-31-2007, 04:54 PM
Do we have this? If so, I apologize.

http://www.wfsb.com/news/13745529/detail.html
It's buried so far back in this thread with Joshua's same profile that it is good to bump it anyway. Thanks jilly.

southcitymom
07-31-2007, 05:22 PM
Thanks SCM for clearing that up, though it's terribly awful either way.


Here is the profile & charges on Komisarjevsky
http://www.wfsb.com/news/13745324/detail.html

Absolutely, Ember. I was particularly interested in the things the boyfriend of Komisarjevsky's child's mom had to say about him. Also, that he was the one to sexually assault the young girl.

jilly
07-31-2007, 07:40 PM
Today's newspaper from Cheshire, CT.

http://www.courant.com/

JBean
07-31-2007, 08:01 PM
Today's newspaper from Cheshire, CT.

http://www.courant.com/
Thanks J-1 for posting that. Gosh it is almost too much to read.
from the article:

>>Jennifer Hawke-Petit's father, the Rev. Richard Hawke, said that evil is as much a part of our world as good and that the two men chose the path of evil.

"Evil thought it had the upper hand, but look at all the goodness here," Hawke said.<<

ember
07-31-2007, 11:32 PM
I was reading over some of the news in this thread, catching up, when it donned on me....we always know all about how these victims of WS leave this world, but seldom do we know anything about the life they lived before their story became front page news. So I thought it might be nice to remember them the way they were.

I found some pictures of Hayley, some on her school website, some from graduation....still all beautiful, bright & full of promise, enjoying graduation with her friends.
The links are below.


Miss Porter's School, athletic page, crew; http://www.missporters.org/pages/sitepage.cfm?page=52144

Graduation photos
http://www.highpointpictures.com/grad_full.php?schoolName=Miss%20Porter%27s&gradYear=2007&photoId=0093&cat=All&ppp=75&page=1 (http://www.highpointpictures.com/grad_full.php?schoolName=Miss&#37;20Porter%27s&gradYear=2007&photoId=0093&cat=All&ppp=75&page=1)

http://www.highpointpictures.com/grad_full.php?schoolName=Miss%20Porter%27s&gradYear=2007&photoId=0145&cat=All&ppp=75&page=1


http://www.highpointpictures.com/grad_full.php?schoolName=Miss%20Porter%27s&gradYear=2007&photoId=0200&cat=All&ppp=75&page=1


http://www.highpointpictures.com/grad_full.php?schoolName=Miss%20Porter%27s&gradYear=2007&photoId=0880&cat=All&ppp=75&page=1


I couldn't find any of Michaela but I'm sure her life was as bright as her sister's was.

Beautiful lives cut way too short....and as always, without any warning.

Just tragic.
Well wishes to their entire family.

fran
07-31-2007, 11:49 PM
Today's newspaper from Cheshire, CT.

http://www.courant.com/

Thanks for the link jilly.

This case is so sad and so senseless. It makes you hurt deep inside.

Bless the family and friends.

fran

philamena
07-31-2007, 11:55 PM
Yes, Bless this family, the husband/father, and other loved ones.

Reannan
08-01-2007, 12:19 AM
I was reading over some of the news in this thread, catching up, when it donned on me....we always know all about how these victims of WS leave this world, but seldom do we know anything about the life they lived before their story became front page news. So I thought it might be nice to remember them the way they were.

I found some pictures of Hayley, some on her school website, some from graduation....still all beautiful, bright & full of promise, enjoying graduation with her friends.
The links are below.


Miss Porter's School, athletic page, crew; http://www.missporters.org/pages/sitepage.cfm?page=52144

Graduation photos
http://www.highpointpictures.com/grad_full.php?schoolName=Miss%20Porter%27s&gradYear=2007&photoId=0093&cat=All&ppp=75&page=1 (http://www.highpointpictures.com/grad_full.php?schoolName=Miss&#37;20Porter%27s&gradYear=2007&photoId=0093&cat=All&ppp=75&page=1)

http://www.highpointpictures.com/grad_full.php?schoolName=Miss%20Porter%27s&gradYear=2007&photoId=0145&cat=All&ppp=75&page=1


http://www.highpointpictures.com/grad_full.php?schoolName=Miss%20Porter%27s&gradYear=2007&photoId=0200&cat=All&ppp=75&page=1


http://www.highpointpictures.com/grad_full.php?schoolName=Miss%20Porter%27s&gradYear=2007&photoId=0880&cat=All&ppp=75&page=1


I couldn't find any of Michaela but I'm sure her life was as bright as her sister's was.

Beautiful lives cut way too short....and as always, without any warning.

Just tragic.
Well wishes to their entire family.

Thanks for those links to pictures of Hayley. She should be remembered and those pictures are such a strong statement of the good soul that she obviously was, especially if you compare them to the pictures we have seen of the two men accused of this horrible crime. I know time is supposed to heal wounds, but I sure don't see how Dr. Petit can ever heal from this one. I sure wish there was something that could be done to help.

jilly
08-01-2007, 01:02 AM
Thanks J-1 for posting that. Gosh it is almost too much to read.
from the article:

>>Jennifer Hawke-Petit's father, the Rev. Richard Hawke, said that evil is as much a part of our world as good and that the two men chose the path of evil.

"Evil thought it had the upper hand, but look at all the goodness here," Hawke said.<<

YW J2 - I knew in the beginning, this man...this family.... would get through this better than some of us. They have a very strong faith in God. I believe in God, but I think I would be doubting there was a God at this point.

They will end up forgiving these two men...something which I don't think I ever could.

jilly
08-01-2007, 01:07 AM
Thanks for the link jilly.

This case is so sad and so senseless. It makes you hurt deep inside.

Bless the family and friends.

fran

YW Fran. I am just numb.

jilly
08-01-2007, 01:09 AM
I was reading over some of the news in this thread, catching up, when it donned on me....we always know all about how these victims of WS leave this world, but seldom do we know anything about the life they lived before their story became front page news. So I thought it might be nice to remember them the way they were.

I found some pictures of Hayley, some on her school website, some from graduation....still all beautiful, bright & full of promise, enjoying graduation with her friends.



I couldn't find any of Michaela but I'm sure her life was as bright as her sister's was.

Beautiful lives cut way too short....and as always, without any warning.

Just tragic.
Well wishes to their entire family.

Ember...thank you very much.

txsvicki
08-01-2007, 04:47 AM
Path to Parole Becomes Issue in Murder Case

STAMFORD, Conn., July 30 — Having committed a string of brazen nighttime burglaries by the age of 22, Joshua Komisarjevsky was facing serious time in a state penitentiary when he stood before Judge James M. Bentivegna in late 2002, with his parents, girlfriend and 9-month-old daughter in the gallery.

He told the court he wanted to apologize to his parents, who were sitting in the front row, and only wished his victims had come to court as well so he could tell them, “I really am sorry for the things I did.” He and his lawyer attributed the crime spree in part to personal troubles, including learning disabilities, childhood sexual abuse and the revelation at age 14 that he had been adopted as a baby.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/nyregion/31slay.html?hp


I noticed in the article that he had eight concussions "along the way". Wonder how that many happened. Sound like he played his parents and really is a psychopath just like the judge said. It is too bad that anti -psychotic medication wasn't given as a teen though.

jilly
08-01-2007, 12:15 PM
Lawmakers are hoping to vote on a tougher 3-strikes law by the end of the summer:

http://wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=6866909

JBean
08-01-2007, 12:45 PM
Lawmakers are hoping to vote on a tougher 3-strikes law by the end of the summer:

http://wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=6866909
We have a 3 strike law here in CA. W have had ours for 10-15 years or so and is pretty hard core. But the 3 strikes law always brings plenty of controversy.

jilly
08-01-2007, 12:54 PM
We have a 3 strike law here in CA. W have had ours for 10-15 years or so and is pretty hard core. But the 3 strikes law always brings plenty of controversy.

What exactly is the controversy? That 3 burglaries for example shouldn't be in this category? I don't know anything about this law - are all crimes considered under this law or does it just pertain to the more serious?

JBean
08-01-2007, 01:04 PM
What exactly is the controversy? That 3 burglaries for example shouldn't be in this category? I don't know anything about this law - are all crimes considered under this law or does it just pertain to the more serious?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_strikes_law
Controversial results
Some unusual scenarios have arisen, particularly in California ó the state punishes shoplifting and similar crimes as felony petty theft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felony_petty_theft) if the person who committed the crime has a prior conviction for any form of theft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft), including robbery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robbery) or burglary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burglary). As a result, some defendants have been given sentences of 25 years to life in prison for such crimes as shoplifting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoplifting) golf clubs (Gary Ewing, previous strikes for burglary and robbery with a knife), nine videotapes (Leandro Andrade (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Leandro_Andrade&action=edit), previous strikes for home burglary), or, along with a violent assault, a slice of pepperoni pizza from a group of children (Jerry Dewayne Williams (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Dewayne_Williams), four previous non-violent felonies, sentence later reduced to six years). In one particularly notorious case, Kevin Weber (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kevin_Weber&action=edit) was sentenced to 26 years to life for the crime of stealing four chocolate chip cookies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocolate_chip_cookie) (previous strikes of burglary and assault with a deadly weapon).[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_strikes_law#_note-2)
In California, first and second strikes are counted by individual charges, rather than individual cases, so a defendant may have been charged and convicted of "first and second strikes", potentially many more than two such strikes, arising from a single case, even one that was disposed of prior to the passage of the law. Convictions from all 50 states and the federal courts at any point in the defendant's past, as well as juvenile offenses that would otherwise be sealed, regardless of the date of offense or conviction or whether the conviction was the result of a plea bargain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plea_bargain), can be counted. The law also mandates that so called "wobbler" offenses that may be charged as a misdemeanor or a felony be charged as a felony if the charge would be a third strike. Thus, defendants already convicted of two or more "strike" charges arising from one single case potentially years in the past, even if the defendant was a juvenile at the time, can be and have been charged and convicted with a third strike for any felony or any offense that could be charged as a felony (including "felony petty theft" or possession of a controlled substance prior to Proposition 36 (see below)) and given 25 years to life. (e.g.: A defendant who accepted a plea bargain to 2 counts of residential burglary in one juvenile case 20 years before the passage of the law would have both counts regarded as first and second strikes, and would face a third strike if charged with any offense potentially chargeable as a felony, such as possession of a controlled substance or "felony petty theft"). It is possible for a defendant to be charged and convicted with two "third strikes" (technically third and fourth strikes) in a single case. It is also possible for multiple "third" strikes to arise from a single criminal act (or omission). As a result, a defendant may then be given two separate sentences that run consecutively,[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_strikes_law#_note-3) which can make for a sentence of 50 (or 75, or 100) years to life. 50 years to life was the actual sentence given to Leandro Andrade.

jilly
08-01-2007, 01:13 PM
Oh Boy. Thanks for this J2.

JBean
08-01-2007, 01:20 PM
Oh Boy. Thanks for this J2.
I think someone was sentenced to life for stealing chocolate chip cookies.

Blue Feather
08-01-2007, 03:34 PM
Hi Guys...........sorry to bring this up............but, I've been trying and trying to see Dr Petit's speaking at the memorial svc............but it won't come up............keeps saying == video.........or loading and then nothing. What could I be doing wrong........not to mention I'm not computer savvy............Thanks

jilly
08-01-2007, 03:49 PM
Hi Guys...........sorry to bring this up............but, I've been trying and trying to see Dr Petit's speaking at the memorial svc............but it won't come up............keeps saying == video.........or loading and then nothing. What could I be doing wrong........not to mention I'm not computer savvy............Thanks

Hi BF - I'm pretty illiterate too but try this -

click on link and to the right you will see 'Dr Petit at Saturday's memorial service. You have to click on that too and wait a couple of seconds. Let me know if this works now.

http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-cheshire0729.artjul29,0,7590977.story?coll=hc_tab0 1_

Blue Feather
08-01-2007, 04:36 PM
Thank you soo much............yes, I was able to view it. Everyone was talking soo much about it.........I needed to hear it. Oh, my God, that man's pain is unbearable !!! His heart is Broken........as my is in listening to him. How anyone could even think he might be responsible for anything to do with what happend.......IS BEYOND ME !!! He is truly a Broken Soul.........someone who wanted to share with the world his beautiful family and pay a tribute to them that they surely deserved. God bless his strength to give a memorial during such enduring pain. I pray that he heals.............he's a very strong man..........but, also a Broken man............Dear Lord please help him, and give him the strength to continue his life, without his beautiful family. And, Jilly, I thank you again for coming to my rescue. This is just beyond words.

hollyjokers
08-01-2007, 05:52 PM
Her dad mentioned how quiet she was, teachers wanting her to open up more, yet she was named captain of the crew team & the underclassmen dedicated one of their races to her. That really says a lot about what kind of person she was. If she was really kind of an introvert yet had something about her that made her classmates see her as a leader. What a loss to all of us really.

jilly
08-01-2007, 06:36 PM
Thank you soo much............yes, I was able to view it. Everyone was talking soo much about it.........I needed to hear it. Oh, my God, that man's pain is unbearable !!! His heart is Broken........as my is in listening to him. How anyone could even think he might be responsible for anything to do with what happend.......IS BEYOND ME !!! He is truly a Broken Soul.........someone who wanted to share with the world his beautiful family and pay a tribute to them that they surely deserved. God bless his strength to give a memorial during such enduring pain. I pray that he heals.............he's a very strong man..........but, also a Broken man............Dear Lord please help him, and give him the strength to continue his life, without his beautiful family. And, Jilly, I thank you again for coming to my rescue. This is just beyond words.

YW BF.:) Yes, he is a broken man. I can't even imagine his pain.:(

JBean
08-01-2007, 07:21 PM
I hate that they called the daughter Hayes and that one of the murderers is named Hayes.

jilly
08-01-2007, 07:33 PM
I hate that they called the daughter Hayes and that one of the murderers is named Hayes.

Oh My!:eek: How uncanny is this?

sweetmop
08-01-2007, 10:44 PM
Thank you soo much............yes, I was able to view it. Everyone was talking soo much about it.........I needed to hear it. Oh, my God, that man's pain is unbearable !!! His heart is Broken........as my is in listening to him. How anyone could even think he might be responsible for anything to do with what happend.......IS BEYOND ME !!! He is truly a Broken Soul.........someone who wanted to share with the world his beautiful family and pay a tribute to them that they surely deserved. God bless his strength to give a memorial during such enduring pain. I pray that he heals.............he's a very strong man..........but, also a Broken man............Dear Lord please help him, and give him the strength to continue his life, without his beautiful family. And, Jilly, I thank you again for coming to my rescue. This is just beyond words.

Blue Feather,
I'm in total agreement with your comments.
This poor dear man. How will he ever return to normalcy?
You know, he has lost everything, everything! His family that he loved, and his home.
I join you and everyone else here in prayers for this heartbroken man. And, for all of the family surviving this beautiful woman and her beautiful girls... Jennifer, Hayley and Michaelia. God comfort and bless you.
This horrendous crime is so senseless!
God bless all who are suffering and hurting from this horrendous act.

I am so sorry.

jilly
08-01-2007, 11:23 PM
Don't think we've seen this article:

http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18645373&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=590581&rfi=

Police brass say alleged gap in arrival time false

LE gets video tape of gas station

Eta - does anyone know when these 2 freaks are to appear in court again?

JBean
08-01-2007, 11:44 PM
Don't think we've seen this article:

http://www.nhregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18645373&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=590581&rfi=

Police brass say alleged gap in arrival time false

LE gets video tape of gas station

Eta - does anyone know when these 2 freaks are to appear in court again?
Oh thank you for posting that article Jilly!
Very informative.

jilly
08-02-2007, 01:01 AM
Oh thank you for posting that article Jilly!
Very informative.

YW Jelly. I did find another article which repeated everything that we know except that the two freaks were flipping on each other which is no surprise. I hope the fire was put out early enough to still get their dna. I just find it odd that they did not rape the older girl. I wonder if they did and because of the fire, they couldn't make that determination. shudder.

JBean
08-02-2007, 01:19 AM
YW Jelly. I did find another article which repeated everything that we know except that the two freaks were flipping on each other which is no surprise. I hope the fire was put out early enough to still get their dna. I just find it odd that they did not rape the older girl. I wonder if they did and because of the fire, they couldn't make that determination. shudder.
You are trying to find the sense in something senseless.
Maybe they got off on the youngest and the oldest. They are sick.

txsvicki
08-02-2007, 01:29 AM
YW Jelly. I did find another article which repeated everything that we know except that the two freaks were flipping on each other which is no surprise. I hope the fire was put out early enough to still get their dna. I just find it odd that they did not rape the older girl. I wonder if they did and because of the fire, they couldn't make that determination. shudder.

They're ex cons, psychopaths, and serial killers but maybe they just aren't pedophiles. I hope it is correct that the child wasn't raped. At least one less thing she had to suffer.

robinparten
08-02-2007, 07:36 AM
They're ex cons, psychopaths, and serial killers but maybe they just aren't pedophiles. I hope it is correct that the child wasn't raped. At least one less thing she had to suffer.

Unfortunately, I believe it is a fact that the youngest daughter was raped. The only question is whether Hayley was raped as well - neither perp has been charged with her rape, so either they don't have enough evidence to support a rape charge, or they did not rape her.

summerprincess
08-02-2007, 09:39 AM
Interesting article(s) in today's Hartford Courant.

Today's Courant is saying that Komisarjevksy made a call to say he wouldn't be in for work between 6 and 7AM! Did he do this when Hayes was supposedly out buying the gas and getting lost?

Interesting that Komisarjevksy had the presence of mind to make this call amidst all the chaos. And clearly he didn't want to jeopardize his JOB!


"Authorities believe Komisarjevksy and Hayes broke into the home through a basement bulkhead about 3 a.m. and held family members hostage for more than six hours before forcing Hawke-Petit to go to the bank and get the cash.

Early Monday morning, possibly between 6 a.m. and 7 a.m., while allegedly still holding the Petit family hostage, Komisarjevsky called in sick to his job at Hartford Restoration Services, an East Hartford roofing company, saying his 5-year-old daughter, Jayda, was ill, according to sources with knowledge of the call."

Tragedy's Final 41 Minutes Unclear

Questions Linger In Cheshire Killings

http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-petitrescue0802.artaug02,0,5028212.story?coll=hc_t ab01_layout

Related Links
'Bank Witness Tells Her Story: (http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:playVideo%28%271635192%27,%27%5C%27Bank%20Wit ness%20Tells%20Her%20Story%27,%27v%27,%27%27,%2714 7133%27,%27%27,%27fvCatNo=&backgroundImageURL=%27,%27video.courant.com%27%29; ) Video (http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:playVideo%28%271635192%27,%27%5C%27Bank%20Wit ness%20Tells%20Her%20Story%27,%27v%27,%27%27,%2714 7133%27,%27%27,%27fvCatNo=&backgroundImageURL=%27,%27video.courant.com%27%29; )
Suspect Monitored Until Days Before Killings (http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-legcheshire0802.artaug02,0,3421977.story?coll=hc_e ntertainment_museums%2Fgalleries_util)
Transcript Of Sentencing Hearing For Joshua Komisarjevsky, Dec. 20, 2002 (http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-komisarjevsky-sentence-pdf,0,1536670.acrobat?coll=hc_entertainment_museum s%2Fgalleries_util)
More Coverage: Cheshire Home Invasion (http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-petit-link,0,5137474.storylink?coll=hc_entertainment_mus eums%2Fgalleries_util)

JBean
08-02-2007, 09:45 AM
Thanks for posting SP...the details are starting to emerge.

dasaky
08-02-2007, 11:03 AM
Well, I mentioned the lag time back on page 3, and no one said anything, so I thought I was crazy. I'm glad that it is being mentioned now. When I say that though, I know that nothing will bring these beautiful women back, but maybe it can be used as an example and in training to make sure that a tragedy of this magnitude never happens again.

JBean
08-02-2007, 11:37 AM
Well, I mentioned the lag time back on page 3, and no one said anything, so I thought I was crazy. I'm glad that it is being mentioned now. When I say that though, I know that nothing will bring these beautiful women back, but maybe it can be used as an example and in training to make sure that a tragedy of this magnitude never happens again.It was initially being discussed as though LE had done something wrong.
IMO, from what we know at this point, they didn't.
In a hostage situation, there is no way LE can storm a house until they know what is going on inside.
We all have hindsight now and since we know the outcome, storming in would have been worth the huge risk that would have brought. Or maybe more would have been killed, or less..we will never know.

LE must stake out the house and see what they are dealing with. They didn't know if these guys were armed or what. They cannot send their own in to be killed. They must secure the perimeter and try and find out what is going on.
Now we know they didn;t have guns, but no one knew at the time.They didn't even know who was home in the house or how many perps they were dealing with.

I think they did an incredible job getting there asap , surrounding the house and keeping these guys from getting away. If the cops arrive a few minutes later these guys had every chance of escape. Since they were not directly associated with this family, it could have been extremely difficult to have caught them.
Poor Dr. Petit would have probably been in the hot seat at this point if these guys had escaped.

robinparten
08-02-2007, 12:55 PM
It was initially being discussed as though LE had done something wrong.
IMO, from what we know at this point, they didn't.
In a hostage situation, there is no way LE can storm a house until they know what is going on inside.
We all have hindsight now and since we know the outcome, storming in would have been worth the huge risk that would have brought. Or maybe more would have been killed, or less..we will never know.

LE must stake out the house and see what they are dealing with. They didn't know if these guys were armed or what. They cannot send their own in to be killed. They must secure the perimeter and try and find out what is going on.
Now we know they didn;t have guns, but no one knew at the time.They didn't even know who was home in the house or how many perps they were dealing with.

I think they did an incredible job getting there asap , surrounding the house and keeping these guys from getting away. If the cops arrive a few minutes later these guys had every chance of escape. Since they were not directly associated with this family, it could have been extremely difficult to have caught them.
Poor Dr. Petit would have probably been in the hot seat at this point if these guys had escaped.

I agree, so far it seems as though they did everything they could possible do. Small comfort, though, I am sure they will all have nightmares about this case, and what could have been, if only they'd known.............

crypto6
08-02-2007, 01:57 PM
It was initially being discussed as though LE had done something wrong.
IMO, from what we know at this point, they didn't.
In a hostage situation, there is no way LE can storm a house until they know what is going on inside.
We all have hindsight now and since we know the outcome, storming in would have been worth the huge risk that would have brought. Or maybe more would have been killed, or less..we will never know.

LE must stake out the house and see what they are dealing with. They didn't know if these guys were armed or what. They cannot send their own in to be killed. They must secure the perimeter and try and find out what is going on.
Now we know they didn;t have guns, but no one knew at the time.They didn't even know who was home in the house or how many perps they were dealing with.

I think they did an incredible job getting there asap , surrounding the house and keeping these guys from getting away. If the cops arrive a few minutes later these guys had every chance of escape. Since they were not directly associated with this family, it could have been extremely difficult to have caught them.
Poor Dr. Petit would have probably been in the hot seat at this point if these guys had escaped.


For some of you LE guys: Wouldn't someone be involved in surveillance of the house, esp sharpshooters?? They knew from the officer wandering around the house 20 minutes before that they could take up positions in or near the house with ease and the surveillance could confirm this.
And with establishing a small presence (3-5 men) around and/or in the house so easy here, why would this not be a tactical maneuver to consider?? (Legit question, not a criticism). Is it protocol to crash the place when the screaming was heard, or just stay put until more info is available and the risk losing officers is less, or is it a situation-specific decision made on the fly?
Iím fascinated by the tactical analysis of this situation; it is almost a no win for LE.

This is reminiscent of Columbine, where LE hunkered down and not even one guy got inside.

Crypto6

Lola
08-02-2007, 04:26 PM
http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=6872769

snip

Dearstyne also read from a statement Komisarjevsky himself made to police that he would "always" break into homes at night.

"The first time I ever broke into a house was when I was 14 years old in Cheshire, Connecticut. This was a nighttime burglary. I always broke into houses during the night, never during the day. After breaking into houses between the ages of 14 and 16, I stopped. All of the houses were in Cheshire. And I stopped because I got caught. I started up again due to a lack of money and a job."

JBean
08-02-2007, 06:39 PM
http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=6872769

snip

Dearstyne also read from a statement Komisarjevsky himself made to police that he would "always" break into homes at night.

"The first time I ever broke into a house was when I was 14 years old in Cheshire, Connecticut. This was a nighttime burglary. I always broke into houses during the night, never during the day. After breaking into houses between the ages of 14 and 16, I stopped. All of the houses were in Cheshire. And I stopped because I got caught. I started up again due to a lack of money and a job."
Thanks Lola for the info :)

jilly
08-02-2007, 11:46 PM
For some of you LE guys: Wouldn't someone be involved in surveillance of the house, esp sharpshooters?? They knew from the officer wandering around the house 20 minutes before that they could take up positions in or near the house with ease and the surveillance could confirm this.
And with establishing a small presence (3-5 men) around and/or in the house so easy here, why would this not be a tactical maneuver to consider?? (Legit question, not a criticism). Is it protocol to crash the place when the screaming was heard, or just stay put until more info is available and the risk losing officers is less, or is it a situation-specific decision made on the fly?
I’m fascinated by the tactical analysis of this situation; it is almost a no win for LE.

This is reminiscent of Columbine, where LE hunkered down and not even one guy got inside.

Crypto6

Crypto - did you read the article posted above by summerprincess? I'll give the link again. It's very interesting.

http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-petitrescue0802.artaug02,0,5028212.story?coll=hc_t ab01_layout

From the article:

"Setting up a secure perimeter and attempting to make contact with suspects inside a home or business is often standard protocol, Gnagey said. Ninety-five percent of hostage situations are resolved through negotiations, Gnagey said. It often takes about 45 minutes for a non-full-time SWAT team to assemble following a call, he said."

jilly
08-03-2007, 09:52 AM
Finally, something about Hayes - crack addict. Parole records released.

http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-parolefiles0803.artaug03,0,7012675.story?coll=hc_t ab01_layout

SewingDeb
08-03-2007, 10:16 AM
Interesting that the parole review board didn't have all the records, including the transcript where the judges say Komisarjevsky was a cold, calculating predator.

I like the comment by Justice League CT (from comments after article jilly linked) saying, "Hey, Mr. Farr, would you like a doctor to diagnose you even if HE didn't have the lab reports/x-rays HE KNEW he needed to do it properly and just perform surgery anyway?"

jilly
08-03-2007, 08:59 PM
Interesting that the parole review board didn't have all the records, including the transcript where the judges say Komisarjevsky was a cold, calculating predator.

I like the comment by Justice League CT (from comments after article jilly linked) saying, "Hey, Mr. Farr, would you like a doctor to diagnose you even if HE didn't have the lab reports/x-rays HE KNEW he needed to do it properly and just perform surgery anyway?"

Thanks for pointing out the comments section which I hadn't read. One poster made a good point (I think) about the release of the parole records and jeopardizing a fair trial. I don't think I've ever heard about parole board's records being released at all, nevermind under these circumstances.

FlowerChild
08-04-2007, 11:10 AM
I had a feeling that Meth had a LOT to do with the violent and sexual nature of this crime. It makes people do things they would NEVER do and also makes them incredibly paranoid. Several men who have been lifelong criminals and pedophiles and never KILLED a victim start doing Meth and their subsequent victim(s) end up dead. "Tweaking" meth heads seem driven to KILL their victims for fear they will get caught when before they might have had the fear of being caught but weren't so driven by it that they killed. These guys took what was previously a non-violent activity and ramped it all the way to rape, arson and murder - there HAS to be a motivating factor - they were in that house for HOURS...I think they were tweaking big time.

Poor Mrs Petit - in People it said she was at the bank desperate to BUY her family's freedom from these two - and in the end, she and the girls still ended up dead - a miracle that the Dr wasn't killed too - she DID save him. Typical Mother's Love - she was willing to die herself to save her family.

The People article also says the two scum have confessed.

My Opinion

SewingDeb
08-04-2007, 11:21 AM
I hope Meth use is not used as a mitigating factor. It should make the charges even worse, if that is possible.

jilly
08-04-2007, 11:34 AM
Here's the link to People Mag:

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20049444,00.html

SewingDeb
08-04-2007, 11:59 AM
Thanks for pointing out the comments section which I hadn't read. One poster made a good point (I think) about the release of the parole records and jeopardizing a fair trial. I don't think I've ever heard about parole board's records being released at all, nevermind under these circumstances.

You're welcome Jilly. I don't believe I've ever heard of the parole board records being released either. I can see why they did it since so many are questioning their decision.

Lola
08-04-2007, 12:19 PM
This confession has got to be a manouver to get the DP off the table. I wonder what will happen now? Wouldn't want to be in a position to make that sort of decision.

Reannan
08-04-2007, 12:24 PM
If this case doesn't warrant the death penalty, then they might as well abandon ever using it. I read the People article, and have tears in my eyes yet again, for this family. These two scum bags are of absolutely no value to society or the human race. They are beyond redemption and their trial and justice in the death chamber should be expedited ASAP.

crypto6
08-04-2007, 02:07 PM
Crypto - did you read the article posted above by summerprincess? I'll give the link again. It's very interesting.

http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-petitrescue0802.artaug02,0,5028212.story?coll=hc_t ab01_layout

From the article:

"Setting up a secure perimeter and attempting to make contact with suspects inside a home or business is often standard protocol, Gnagey said. Ninety-five percent of hostage situations are resolved through negotiations, Gnagey said. It often takes about 45 minutes for a non-full-time SWAT team to assemble following a call, he said."

Jilly:

Thanks for the article. Sorry about being slow answering; work occasionally gets in the way of sleuthing. I know several SWAT guys fairly well, but haven't seen them yet. I'll inquire and get back with anything interesting.
This is an unbelievably complex situation and I keep doing "post mortems" on it to find better ways to analyze and respond to it.

Crypto6

crypto6
08-04-2007, 02:14 PM
I had a feeling that Meth had a LOT to do with the violent and sexual nature of this crime. It makes people do things they would NEVER do and also makes them incredibly paranoid. Several men who have been lifelong criminals and pedophiles and never KILLED a victim start doing Meth and their subsequent victim(s) end up dead. "Tweaking" meth heads seem driven to KILL their victims for fear they will get caught when before they might have had the fear of being caught but weren't so driven by it that they killed. These guys took what was previously a non-violent activity and ramped it all the way to rape, arson and murder - there HAS to be a motivating factor - they were in that house for HOURS...I think they were tweaking big time.

Poor Mrs Petit - in People it said she was at the bank desperate to BUY her family's freedom from these two - and in the end, she and the girls still ended up dead - a miracle that the Dr wasn't killed too - she DID save him. Typical Mother's Love - she was willing to die herself to save her family.

The People article also says the two scum have confessed.

My Opinion

I have seen a fair share of tweakers and they are very scary. Given any advantage, they will become extremely violent to get what they want most: money for meth. They usually don't have this much organizational skill and can't tweak long without doing something to relieve the jones if at all possible. Meth was probably involved but this torturing and waiting seems more like pure evil enabled and stoked by a continuing meth supply, not a lack. These guys really bother me on a number of levels, some so deep I have a hard time describing them.

Jilly: thanks for the article.

Crypto6

crypto6
08-04-2007, 02:30 PM
I had a feeling that Meth had a LOT to do with the violent and sexual nature of this crime. It makes people do things they would NEVER do and also makes them incredibly paranoid. Several men who have been lifelong criminals and pedophiles and never KILLED a victim start doing Meth and their subsequent victim(s) end up dead. "Tweaking" meth heads seem driven to KILL their victims for fear they will get caught when before they might have had the fear of being caught but weren't so driven by it that they killed. These guys took what was previously a non-violent activity and ramped it all the way to rape, arson and murder - there HAS to be a motivating factor - they were in that house for HOURS...I think they were tweaking big time.

Poor Mrs Petit - in People it said she was at the bank desperate to BUY her family's freedom from these two - and in the end, she and the girls still ended up dead - a miracle that the Dr wasn't killed too - she DID save him. Typical Mother's Love - she was willing to die herself to save her family.

The People article also says the two scum have confessed.

My Opinion

I noticed People was following the early line that the cops raced to find a burning house. The truth is alway better; here people can see it takes time to tactically evaluate even if LE is already there. Now people know they can't rely on LE to immediately show up and try to save them, and they need to take more precautions themselves.

Crypto6

jilly
08-04-2007, 04:59 PM
This confession has got to be a manouver to get the DP off the table. I wonder what will happen now? Wouldn't want to be in a position to make that sort of decision.

I don't know about CT but I've read before where the prosecution will get imput from the victim(s) regarding the DP. I wonder what Dr Petit (who appears to be a religious man) will have to say.

jilly
08-04-2007, 05:01 PM
Jilly:

Thanks for the article. Sorry about being slow answering; work occasionally gets in the way of sleuthing. I know several SWAT guys fairly well, but haven't seen them yet. I'll inquire and get back with anything interesting.
This is an unbelievably complex situation and I keep doing "post mortems" on it to find better ways to analyze and respond to it.

Crypto6

That would be great crypto!

Lola
08-04-2007, 06:10 PM
I don't know about CT but I've read before where the prosecution will get imput from the victim(s) regarding the DP. I wonder what Dr Petit (who appears to be a religious man) will have to say.

Yes, jilly. I'm personally anti-DP, but when you have a case like this, well, it certainly makes you wonder.....and it's not even my family. As if Dr. Petit doesn't have enough to contend with at this time....a dark night of the soul. :(

wildTrose
08-05-2007, 09:03 AM
I feel so sorry for this man and I think any jury will too...can you imagine one day having a happy healthy family, going to bed...then the next day you have no family...and losing them this way...I would be in a pyschiatric ward!
i doubt they make it very long in prison!!!

crypto6
08-05-2007, 12:29 PM
Crypto - did you read the article posted above by summerprincess? I'll give the link again. It's very interesting.

http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-petitrescue0802.artaug02,0,5028212.story?coll=hc_t ab01_layout

From the article:

"Setting up a secure perimeter and attempting to make contact with suspects inside a home or business is often standard protocol, Gnagey said. Ninety-five percent of hostage situations are resolved through negotiations, Gnagey said. It often takes about 45 minutes for a non-full-time SWAT team to assemble following a call, he said."

I'm afraid these guys screwed up bigtime. First it was they arrived as the house was in flames, then 20 minutes before, now 40 minutes. I live in a 35K population town and our SWAT is available with 10 minutes; why even have a team if they can't be gathered together and make a decision. My beef is that no attempt was made to either enter the home under stealth or contact the perps to let them know the jig was up. If they knew they were surrounded they would probably not have torched the building they were in.

Just like any other group, when LE lies, something is rottten. This isn't gonna go away for the cops; they're branded in that small town and I feel sorry for the lower level guys who have to bear the heat for their incompetent superiors.

Crypto6

Shelly Beach
08-05-2007, 11:29 PM
Jelly I just read this article and I know you posted these words way back when...
in this thread.

The Perfect Storm. :(

http://www.comcast.net/news/national/index.jsp?cat=DOMESTIC&fn=/2007/08/05/732160.html

philamena
08-06-2007, 12:53 AM
I'm sorry but imo, these 2 worthless perps deserve no 3 hots and a cot.
They deserve maybe bread and water and to sleep on the bare floor of their hopefully dreary cell. (Actually I think they should drink their water out of the toilet.)

We may never know fully what went on in that home on that fretful night. I personally like it that way. I'm not sure I can handle such evil.

SewingDeb
08-06-2007, 02:32 AM
State Parole Board Has Responsibility - To Resign

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/op_ed/hc-rennie0805.artaug05,0,5187964.column

jilly
08-06-2007, 01:18 PM
Editorial in today's Courant:

http://www.courant.com/news/opinion/editorials/hc-parole.1.artaug06,0,1342103.story

jilly
08-07-2007, 11:36 AM
Home Invasion Suspects appear in Court today. Held over to September 18th:

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hcu-suspects-0807,0,4757659.story

Sounds like the two monsters have 2 of the best defense attorneys.

englishleigh
08-07-2007, 11:56 AM
I'm sorry but imo, these 2 worthless perps deserve no 3 hots and a cot.
They deserve maybe bread and water and to sleep on the bare floor of their hopefully dreary cell. (Actually I think they should drink their water out of the toilet.)

We may never know fully what went on in that home on that fretful night. I personally like it that way. I'm not sure I can handle such evil.

I think they deserve to be lined up against a brick wall and shot, personally.
:furious:

jilly
08-07-2007, 11:59 AM
Today's family statement:

http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews/hc-petitstatement-0807,0,7754288.story

close_enough
08-07-2007, 12:05 PM
Home Invasion Suspects appear in Court today. Held over to September 18th:

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hcu-suspects-0807,0,4757659.story

Sounds like the two monsters have 2 of the best defense attorneys.

interesting...so Hayes got the public defender, & the other guy (with money in his family) got a 'regular' defense atty.....sounds like both have very good lawyers, but ya know...i know we NEED public defenders, but it's GOT to take a very, ooohhh, i guess 'special' person, to want to be a public defender....it would have to be a very hard job, imo.....

seems pretty open & shut to me....the father will ID them, & LE saw them fleeing the home...

Lola
08-07-2007, 12:27 PM
interesting...so Hayes got the public defender, & the other guy (with money in his family) got a 'regular' defense atty.....sounds like both have very good lawyers, but ya know...i know we NEED public defenders, but it's GOT to take a very, ooohhh, i guess 'special' person, to want to be a public defender....it would have to be a very hard job, imo.....

seems pretty open & shut to me....the father will ID them, & LE saw them fleeing the home...

The family of Komarisjevsky has to be angling to get the DP off the table for him and getting him into treatment.

JBean
08-07-2007, 12:31 PM
The family of Komarisjevsky has to be angling to get the DP off the table for him and getting him into treatment.
Oh I am sure they have.
IMO, if one has a good defense in a case of this magnitude, there is a smaller chance that there will be any significant appellate issues.

Lola
08-07-2007, 12:33 PM
What kills me JBean is that virtually every single case, where some guy goes off the rails and does something horrible (this latest case in Massachusetts is another example) the family all says "he's had problems, been on a bad path, blah, blah"...well why did it take something horrific to get their attention?

JBean
08-07-2007, 12:41 PM
What kills me JBean is that virtually every single case, where some guy goes off the rails and does something horrible (this latest case in Massachusetts is another example) the family all says "he's had problems, been on a bad path, blah, blah"...well why did it take something horrific to get their attention?
It is a shame that it has to come to something like this.
But in their defense a little bit..I do not think anyone in the family saw anything of this magnitude coming at all.

altruist1000
08-07-2007, 12:51 PM
Http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/06/family.killed.ap/index.html

Home invasion: One suspect's a planner, the other a bungler

CHESHIRE, Connecticut (AP) -- Joshua Komisarjevsky was known to authorities for his extraordinary planning of burglaries, wearing latex gloves and night-vision goggles and bringing a knife to cut window screens so he could slip into homes while the owners slept. (continued at above link)

Steven Hayes was considered a clumsy thief, returning to the same area in the same stolen car to bash car windows with a hammer or rock to steal pocketbooks. (continued at above link)

Komisarjevsky's attorney, Jeremiah Donovan, and Hayes' attorney, Thomas Ullmann, both declined to comment. (continued at above link)

IMO, these two deserve no mercy.

jilly
08-07-2007, 12:59 PM
interesting...so Hayes got the public defender, & the other guy (with money in his family) got a 'regular' defense atty.....sounds like both have very good lawyers, but ya know...i know we NEED public defenders, but it's GOT to take a very, ooohhh, i guess 'special' person, to want to be a public defender....it would have to be a very hard job, imo.....

seems pretty open & shut to me....the father will ID them, & LE saw them fleeing the home...

It's gotta take something for anyone to defend these two monsters. One of the lawyers has a wife and 2 daughters - don't know how he can do it.

I don't know if it will be so open & shut. With the fire, evidence of who did what to the women may have been destroyed and then of course you have the two monsters pointing the finger at each other.

Lola
08-07-2007, 03:37 PM
It is a shame that it has to come to something like this.
But in their defense a little bit..I do not think anyone in the family saw anything of this magnitude coming at all.

Fair enough...:(

jilly
08-07-2007, 03:51 PM
Here's the local TV coverage of today:

http://www.wfsb.com/video/13839944/index.html

southcitymom
08-07-2007, 06:10 PM
interesting...so Hayes got the public defender, & the other guy (with money in his family) got a 'regular' defense atty.....sounds like both have very good lawyers, but ya know...i know we NEED public defenders, but it's GOT to take a very, ooohhh, i guess 'special' person, to want to be a public defender....it would have to be a very hard job, imo.....

seems pretty open & shut to me....the father will ID them, & LE saw them fleeing the home...

I'm one of those weirdos who would want to be a public defender if I got my law degree. My respect for them is limitless.

Under our system of justice - which I consider to be the best in the world - it takes DAs and Public Defenders to get criminals off the streets. Both white hats and black hats play a vital role in the process.

The case does seem open and shut, but I'll always want a system where the DA has to really work hard for it to put a person behind bars or in the electric chair.

southcitymom
08-07-2007, 06:11 PM
It is a shame that it has to come to something like this.
But in their defense a little bit..I do not think anyone in the family saw anything of this magnitude coming at all.

Nor do I. As another poster pointed out, it was like the Perfect Storm (unlikely, horrifying and deadly) when these two criminals met.

close_enough
08-07-2007, 06:21 PM
I'm one of those weirdos who would want to be a public defender if I got my law degree. My respect for them is limitless.

Under our system of justice - which I consider to be the best in the world - it takes DAs and Public Defenders to get criminals off the streets. Both white hats and black hats play a vital role in the process.

The case does seem open and shut, but I'll always want a system where the DA has to really work hard for it to put a person behind bars or in the electric chair.

yes, as i said before, it would take a special person to be a public defender.....:blowkiss:
hope i never need one.....

close_enough
08-07-2007, 06:23 PM
It's gotta take something for anyone to defend these two monsters. One of the lawyers has a wife and 2 daughters - don't know how he can do it.

I don't know if it will be so open & shut. With the fire, evidence of who did what to the women may have been destroyed and then of course you have the two monsters pointing the finger at each other.

good point, jilly.....

southcitymom
08-07-2007, 06:25 PM
yes, as i said before, it would take a special person to be a public defender.....:blowkiss:
hope i never need one.....

:blowkiss: back at you, close. I hope you are well and I TRIPLE hope you never have need of a public defender.

close_enough
08-07-2007, 06:46 PM
:blowkiss: back at you, close. I hope you are well and I TRIPLE hope you never have need of a public defender.

doing fine here southcity...hope you're doing the same:)

jilly
08-07-2007, 06:53 PM
Here's an article from the NY Times dated Aug. 6 which I don't think has been posted here. It gives more details -

CHESHIRE, Conn., Aug. 6 ó Dr. William A. Petit Jr., his head bloodied and legs bound, stumbled out of a rear basement door of his two-story home here into a pouring rain, calling the name of a neighbor for help.

The neighbor heard the shouting, but so did the two men inside the house, who peeked outside from an upstairs window.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/07/nyregion/07slay.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

Only4Justice
08-07-2007, 08:30 PM
are raised in this article....

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hcu-suspects-0807,0,4757659.story

With police snipers outside, the two suspects accused in the brutal triple slaying of a Cheshire mother and her two young daughters appeared Tuesday in Superior Court in New Haven. They did not enter a plea.
~snip~

The suspects were brought to court under tight security. One street near the courthouse was closed to traffic and police snipers were positioned in an adjacent parking garage and at other points around the building. The men appeared in court also under heavy security, with Department of Correction personnel in bulletproof vests and combat fatigues standing by.

WHY all the security????? To Protect these PERPS from vigilante justice????? :mad:

~snip~

During a six-hour reign of terror that followed, police said Komisarjevsky and Hayes tied up Hawke-Petit, Michaela and Hayley. Police said Jennifer Hawke-Petit and Michaela were raped. Shortly after 9 a.m. on July 23, police said, the suspects forced Hawke-Petit to withdraw $15,000 from a local bank before returning home, strangling her and setting the house on fire.

Hayley and Michaela, who were tied to their beds, died of smoke inhalation.


Why was Hayley spared from being raped? What are your thoughts? I have a few ideas.. please share ...

And the article said that members of the Petit family were present during the hearing...but not Dr. Petit. That POOR MAN. I don't know how he will go on.

And another question....which is true.......Hayley was found tied to her bed or found at the top of the stairway? (I have read both) .....If she was at the top of the stairway, why?

Sick Criminals these 2 are....absolutely NO CHANCE AT REDEMPTION WHATSOEVER!

Only when they meet their creator will justice be truly served. All IMO
:mad:

jilly
08-07-2007, 08:54 PM
Why was Hayley spared from being raped? What are your thoughts? I have a few ideas.. please share ...


O4J - the only thing that I can come up with is that she was possibly burned so that no evidence of rape could be found - horrible as it is to think about this.

As far as all the security - Since I can imagine, tensions are high in that town, I think LE is under a microscope right now and the worst thing that could happen to them would be to have anything happen to those suspects.

Only4Justice
08-07-2007, 09:04 PM
O4J - the only thing that I can come up with is that she was possibly burned so that no evidence of rape could be found - horrible as it is to think about this.

As far as all the security - Since I can imagine, tensions are high in that town, I think LE is under a microscope right now and the worst thing that could happen to them would be to have anything happen to those suspects.

Thanks for replying, jilly :D

Unless Hayley was getting away from them while they were attacking Michaela and Jennifer...Maybe that's how she was found at the top of the stairway.

As far as the security, I think most people in CT would like to see justice done, one way or another :mad: These 2 were caught RED-HANDED. Justice should be swift...we should enact special laws for those caught in the act!!

:silenced:

sweetmop
08-07-2007, 09:37 PM
are raised in this article....

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hcu-suspects-0807,0,4757659.story

With police snipers outside, the two suspects accused in the brutal triple slaying of a Cheshire mother and her two young daughters appeared Tuesday in Superior Court in New Haven. They did not enter a plea.
~snip~

The suspects were brought to court under tight security. One street near the courthouse was closed to traffic and police snipers were positioned in an adjacent parking garage and at other points around the building. The men appeared in court also under heavy security, with Department of Correction personnel in bulletproof vests and combat fatigues standing by.

WHY all the security????? To Protect these PERPS from vigilante justice????? :mad:

~snip~

During a six-hour reign of terror that followed, police said Komisarjevsky and Hayes tied up Hawke-Petit, Michaela and Hayley. Police said Jennifer Hawke-Petit and Michaela were raped. Shortly after 9 a.m. on July 23, police said, the suspects forced Hawke-Petit to withdraw $15,000 from a local bank before returning home, strangling her and setting the house on fire.

Hayley and Michaela, who were tied to their beds, died of smoke inhalation.


Why was Hayley spared from being raped? What are your thoughts? I have a few ideas.. please share ...

And the article said that members of the Petit family were present during the hearing...but not Dr. Petit. That POOR MAN. I don't know how he will go on.

And another question....which is true.......Hayley was found tied to her bed or found at the top of the stairway? (I have read both) .....If she was at the top of the stairway, why?

Sick Criminals these 2 are....absolutely NO CHANCE AT REDEMPTION WHATSOEVER!

Only when they meet their creator will justice be truly served. All IMO
:mad:

Only4Justice, I agree with all of your points.

Those 2 monsters should not be kept forever on death row either, their punishment should be swift, I hate the idea of the taxpayers keeping them up for years and years. What a waste.

I also read that Hayley was found tied to her bed, and then I remember reading too that she was found at the top of the stairs. Not certain which is correct.

I think maybe the perps spared her, Hayley, from rape because she was silent... I suspect the little girl cryed or yelled out, and I think it was reported somewhere that the mother had screamed, maybe the screaming p****d them off. I don't know for sure. What are your thoughts on this?

Nothing at all in this horrendous case makes any sense to me at all!

God bless Dr. Petit.

jilly
08-07-2007, 11:50 PM
Thanks for replying, jilly :D

Unless Hayley was getting away from them while they were attacking Michaela and Jennifer...Maybe that's how she was found at the top of the stairway.

As far as the security, I think most people in CT would like to see justice done, one way or another :mad: These 2 were caught RED-HANDED. Justice should be swift...we should enact special laws for those caught in the act!!

:silenced:

I think that they were raped before they went to the bank. They had that 6 hours. I'm also thinking that Hayley managed to get free when the house was on fire but she didn't make it.:( I remember reading she was found at the top of the stairs. Cause of death was smoke inhalation.

jilly
08-07-2007, 11:55 PM
I think maybe the perps spared her, Hayley, from rape because she was silent... I suspect the little girl cryed or yelled out, and I think it was reported somewhere that the mother had screamed, maybe the screaming p****d them off. I don't know for sure. What are your thoughts on this?



That sounds plausible sweetmop. Better than my guess. If it was her at the top of the stairs and cause of death was smoke inhalation then it's probable that she would have evidence of rape.

wildTrose
08-08-2007, 08:24 AM
maybe it was her time of the month?

jilly
08-08-2007, 12:25 PM
Lawyer for Hayes (Ullman), a vocal anti DP advocate) says his goal is to keep Hayes off death row.

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-petit0808.artaug08,0,2880187.story

So, imo this is why the family hired him.

Video is interesting - High security yesterday was because of death threats and the 2 monsters are on suicide watch.

FlowerChild
08-08-2007, 01:32 PM
maybe it was her time of the month?
I thought the same thing!
They killed because they were cornered and they were (or had been) high and were mega paranoid and NOT thinking clearly. They were both STUPID petty criminals - and their stupidity and paranoia is gonna get them the needle. Murder was not their original intent so they cobbled together a STUPID plan because they saw no other way out - and knew the forensics in the house would put them away for life no matter what they did. They were "on file" with LE - with evidence they were never going to get away and they KNEW that...no way out. Plus it appears they SAW Dr Petit get away - their dead guy in the basement wasn't so dead and they weren't going to make THAT mistake with the others so they burned the girls in their beds and strangled their mother...pure STUPID paranoia combined with tweaking. Like Couey, they did the only thing they could think of to "erase" the evidence and make it "disappear". Guess they missed CSI in prison - it NEVER works - stupid is still stupid - on TV or in life.

I agree with the "different" punishment and time frame when the perps are caught in the act. The DP in this case should be swift and cold and unemotional...there is no DOUBT of guilt here and no need for appeals lasting 15 years or more. I wish LE had finished the job on the street in front of the house - that was already 20 minutes LONGER than they deserved to live. Now we will have to sit thru listening to their sorry life stories and "emotional and physical abuse" tales and IQ tests to prove they have a brain reasonably uncooked by drugs. K's family is a screwed up mess - somebody oughta check on the rest of the kids that had the bad fortune to end up in that family - but they can do it AFTER they execute him. Maybe THEN they will all see they might need professional help.

My Opinion

jilly
08-08-2007, 06:43 PM
I thought the same thing!
They killed because they were cornered and they were (or had been) high and were mega paranoid and NOT thinking clearly. They were both STUPID petty criminals - and their stupidity and paranoia is gonna get them the needle. Murder was not their original intentso they cobbled together a STUPID plan because they saw no other way out - and knew the forensics in the house would put them away for life no matter what they did. They were "on file" with LE - with evidence they were never going to get away and they KNEW that...no way out. Plus it appears they SAW Dr Petit get away - their dead guy in the basement wasn't so dead and they weren't going to make THAT mistake with the others so they burned the girls in their beds and strangled their mother...pure STUPID paranoia combined with tweaking. Like Couey, they did the only thing they could think of to "erase" the evidence and make it "disappear". Guess they missed CSI in prison - it NEVER works - stupid is still stupid - on TV or in life.

I agree with the "different" punishment and time frame when the perps are caught in the act. The DP in this case should be swift and cold and unemotional...there is no DOUBT of guilt here and no need for appeals lasting 15 years or more. I wish LE had finished the job on the street in front of the house I would bet that one or two cops are wishing that they did, considering the outcome- that was already 20 minutes LONGER than they deserved to live. Now we will have to sit thru listening to their sorry life stories and "emotional and physical abuse" tales and IQ tests to prove they have a brain reasonably uncooked by drugs. K's family is a screwed up mess - somebody oughta check on the rest of the kids that had the bad fortune to end up in that family - but they can do it AFTER they execute him. Maybe THEN they will all see they might need professional help.

My Opinion

I think you're right in that murder was not their original intent. That changed in the first hour when Monster H apparently went out and purchased those 4 cans of gas at the BP gas station between 4 and 4:30 am.
They were going to kill them even if they weren't cornered imo.

Bobbisangel
08-08-2007, 06:55 PM
I kinda of late on saying this but I watched little pieces of the father at the services for his wife and children and it just broke my heart. This is a broken man who can barely think straight he is in so much pain. I don't know how a person ever recovers from losing their whole family and in such a brutal way. How could you ever stop the horrible memorys of their last moments? I think this husband/dad has a strong faith in God and I think that is what he will have to hang onto with all of his might. It is all just a horrible thing.

I hope the ending of these two monsters is swift and painful. Why prolong their deaths for years. They are guilty and there is no doubt about that.

I think the decision to murder them all took place when the victims saw the faces of the monsters. The victims could identify them. They followed the mom and the little girl home for more then $15,000 in cash.

RiverRat
08-14-2007, 11:03 AM
http://www.sun-herald.com/Newsstory.cfm?pubdate=081407&story=tp2np1.htm&folder=NewsArchive2

A savage family murder in Connecticut that caught the attention of the nation's media has roots in a deeply religious Venice family.

Retired snowbirds, the Rev. Richard and Marybelle Hawke, who reside in Venice in the winter and who summer in Slippery Rock, Pa., have spent the last two weeks in tears.

They're recovering up north from shock over the brutal deaths of their daughter and two grandchildren, murdered in a home invasion July 23.

Two convicts with long rap sheets, out on parole, followed the family from a store to their home in Cheshire, Conn. They raped and strangled Jennifer Lynn Hawke-Petit, 48, tied 17-year-old daughter Hayley and her 11-year-old sister Michaela to their beds, then torched the house to cover up their crimes. Hawke-Petit and her daughters died from smoke inhalation, according to news reports.

Husband Dr. William Petit, 50, was assaulted and bound in the basement, but managed to escape before the fire consumed the house.

The Hawkes' extended family and members of the Petit family were supposed to congregate this coming week for a family reunion at the Hawkes' summer home in Pennsylvania.

Instead, nine Venice family members and relatives from around Florida attended a series of services this past week that drew thousands of mourners.

More services are scheduled this week for the well-liked family.

jilly
08-18-2007, 03:44 PM
Toxicology results - No drugs or alcohol found in monster H & monster J.

Quote:

"The two men charged in last month's triple slaying in Cheshire had no drugs or alcohol in their systems, a startling revelation that could damage their chances of escaping death sentences."

http://www.courant.com/news/local/nh/hc-cheshire0816.artaug16,0,6122636.story

jilly
08-18-2007, 04:02 PM
Sounds like there were certain laws in place for more severe punishment for these two. The prosecutors simply chose not to seek harsher sentencing.

From the above article:

Quote:

"Hayes was eligible for stricter sentencing, however, under Connecticut's persistent serious felony offender law, which would have effectively doubled his prison time, Lawlor said. But the prosecutor who handled Hayes' last conviction chose not to pursue it. Likewise, the prosecutor in Komisarjevsky's case could have pursued consecutive 10-year sentences on each of Komisarjevsky's 20 counts of second-degree burglary for an effective 200-year sentence, but chose not to, Lawlor said."

OneLostGrl
08-19-2007, 01:08 AM
Sounds like there were certain laws in place for more severe punishment for these two. The prosecutors simply chose not to seek harsher sentencing.

From the above article:

Quote:

"Hayes was eligible for stricter sentencing, however, under Connecticut's persistent serious felony offender law, which would have effectively doubled his prison time, Lawlor said. But the prosecutor who handled Hayes' last conviction chose not to pursue it. Likewise, the prosecutor in Komisarjevsky's case could have pursued consecutive 10-year sentences on each of Komisarjevsky's 20 counts of second-degree burglary for an effective 200-year sentence, but chose not to, Lawlor said."

Geeze- why the heck would they choose not to?

hollyjokers
08-22-2007, 12:22 AM
The people magazine article got me thinking about the doctor's words at the memorial service. "help a neighbor, fight for a cause, love your family" If some of us websleuthers got out and took part in some local MS walkathons as part of the "Hayley's Hope & Michaela's Miracle" teams, the good works of these lovely girls could continue.

jilly
08-30-2007, 11:35 AM
Hearing set for Sept 17th with regards to sealed search warrants.

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-ctapcheshire0830.artaug30,0,2087052.story

The Courant is arguing to release the documents. Prosecutors say their investigation would be harmed; defense attorneys say their clients would have a tough time getting a fair trial.

Lola
08-30-2007, 12:54 PM
Hearing set for Sept 17th with regards to sealed search warrants.

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-ctapcheshire0830.artaug30,0,2087052.story

The Courant is arguing to release the documents. Prosecutors say their investigation would be harmed; defense attorneys say their clients would have a tough time getting a fair trial.

A fair trial? Well, it is going to be difficult to find a jury of THEIR peers. Sheesh.

jilly
08-30-2007, 01:10 PM
A fair trial? Well, it is going to be difficult to find a jury of THEIR peers. Sheesh.

Hi Lola. I think their only hope would be to delay this thing for a couple of years so that maybe some people forget.
I'd kinda like to know why the prosecution doesn't want these SWs released though.

Lola
08-30-2007, 03:53 PM
Hiya, Jilly. I am afraid what happened is probably worse than we even know and that may be why the defense want the warrants sealed. I was staggered by the revelation that Komarisjevsky and Hayes weren't on drugs.

I agree, the defense is probably waiting for tensions to relax, but this was such a high profile case and so awful that I would think the citizens of Connecticut would want this to come to trial sooner rather than later.

PrayersForMaura
09-10-2007, 10:06 PM
Special on Dateline right now about this case for anyone interested

sweetmop
09-10-2007, 10:12 PM
Special on Dateline right now about this case for anyone interested

Thank you. I didn't know about it being on.
Gonna change the channel right now.
:)

jilly
09-10-2007, 10:24 PM
Hiya, Jilly. I am afraid what happened is probably worse than we even know and that may be why the defense want the warrants sealed. I was staggered by the revelation that Komarisjevsky and Hayes weren't on drugs.

I agree, the defense is probably waiting for tensions to relax, but this was such a high profile case and so awful that I would think the citizens of Connecticut would want this to come to trial sooner rather than later.

I thought for sure they were on drugs too. Evil beyond my comprehension, that's for sure.
I'm still waiting for the Entwistle case to get to trial. Seems like it's been forever. Imagine what the victims feel like.:(

jilly
09-10-2007, 10:25 PM
Special on Dateline right now about this case for anyone interested

I am! Thanks very much for the heads up PFM!

natasha-cupcake
09-11-2007, 09:53 AM
Steven Hayes apparently was kicked out of his drug rehab program just prior to the murders, for not attending required sessions. No action was taken by the parole board, despite the fact that they had been notified.

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-hayes0911.artsep11,0,5445281.story?track=rss

jilly
09-11-2007, 11:27 AM
Thank you Natasha.

So....did anyone watch Dateline last nite? I actually cried at the end of it. That poor, poor Mr. Petit.

Here is the transcript:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20706697/page/4/


Excerpt:

The Cheshire police are a low key presence at 9:45 a.m. Some patrol cars waiting for the SWAT team to assemble. No one wants to pull a Dirty Harry and kick in the door on a potential hostage-taking situation.

It's a caution the police officers will second-guess in their nightmares because at that point the two girls are still alive.

SewingDeb
09-11-2007, 11:46 AM
I think you're right in that murder was not their original intent. That changed in the first hour when Monster H apparently went out and purchased those 4 cans of gas at the BP gas station between 4 and 4:30 am.
They were going to kill them even if they weren't cornered imo.

I believe you are right. Also, they were not high on drugs or alcohol, surprisingly enough. They knew what they wanted to do.

The last page of your link to Dateline has this:

Toxicology tests indicate the two suspects were not on drugs when they allegedly committed the crimes.

crymezero
09-11-2007, 02:26 PM
But then agan, what does a cold blooded killer actually look like?
http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/
8/10

Pretty good: it seems you know your JavaBeans from your fava beans, your slashers from your Slashdotters.

jilly
09-22-2007, 04:43 PM
Dr Petit speaks at recent memorial in Cheshire. Video:

http://www.wfsb.com/video/14158445/index.html

calidreamin
09-22-2007, 06:04 PM
Thank you for posting that Jilly my heart just breaks for him. I can't imagine how you can go on after losing your whole family. Prayers to you Dr. Petit.

Schmerty_Jones
09-22-2007, 07:04 PM
Thank you for posting that wonderful memorial,Jilly. My heart justs drops to my soles thinking of the total loss that fine man has suffered. " The lord giveth & the Lord taketh away. Blessed be the name of the Lord." I still don't understand:( I guess that's where faith comes in.

reb
09-22-2007, 07:41 PM
I am just learning about this unfortunate occurance.... i don't watch the news anymore because I can no longer take the constant barrage of horrific news every day. But I have a question about the sequence of these particular events.... when the mother was told to drive to her bank and withdraw money... why did she not just take refuge inside the bank, refuse to come out... and say 'call the cops immediately... tell them to come HERE and also go to (my address) NOW...!!!???? I would have NOT left the bank and gone back to my house with those criminals... And I am in NO way judging her actions... I am just trying to understand why she did. Maybe I am missing something.

That being said... once again,, there are times that we need to do away with our justice system and just let the angry mob do their work..... this is definitely one of them. But they would need to torture them first and make them suffer before being relieved of the privilege of living on planet earth.......!!!

Lisahas2cats
09-22-2007, 08:03 PM
Reb, I think the other monster was still at the home with both her girls :(. I'm sure that after a full 6 hours of being terrorized, she was convinced that if she tried to deviate from what she was told, her girls would be hurt worse than they'd already been. Alternately, maybe they told her that if she cooperated, they'd let her girls go? I don't know.....I just can't imagine being in those shoes :(

jilly
09-22-2007, 09:48 PM
Reb, I think the other monster was still at the home with both her girls :(. I'm sure that after a full 6 hours of being terrorized, she was convinced that if she tried to deviate from what she was told, her girls would be hurt worse than they'd already been. Alternately, maybe they told her that if she cooperated, they'd let her girls go? I don't know.....I just can't imagine being in those shoes :(

That's right. In those 6 hours preceding the trip to the bank, her husband had been beaten, she had been raped and so had one daughter (that we know about. I can't imagine her state of mind at the bank. I applaud her for what she did do, however. She could have just walked out of the bank without saying anything.

When the first officers arrived at the house, (as I understand it) Mrs Petit and her daughters were still alive. Mrs Petit had successfully done her part. It's LE that maybe didn't.