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MCDRAW
09-16-2010, 01:31 PM
I think maybe it was the sexual element. One or both had seen the younger daughter with her mother at the store and followed them home. Plenty of time for obsession to develop before breaking in.

I don't think it was sexual. I think Joshua K. knew he could terrorize her. She was just 11, still a baby. Maybe Hayley didn't let him see the fear. She may have been calm like her Mom. Obsession maybe

PrairieWind
09-16-2010, 01:37 PM
This is the thing, this is what these guys did. They would break into homes at night when people were sleeping and then slip out unnoticed. I don't believe either one of these guys had ever been violent. What made them change their minds this time? I'm sure we will never know.

Thats a real mystery, unless one of these guys is going to testify and just tell what happened. Possible. BUt i agree that they usually were just burglars, not violent. And I can't help but think this started out that way as well. But something changed. One of them, Hayes i think, said to teh police that "things got out of control." I imagine it probably started with the sexual assault of the girl. And once that happened, the animals probably figured that they had to kill them to destroy evidence.

JulieR
09-16-2010, 01:40 PM
I am very ashamed to admit that when this story first came out, I suspected Dr. Petit was involved. His injuries weren't life threatening, he got out in nick of time. But Mainly, I suspected him because every case we hear about now is a husband killing wife, wife killing husband, both killing children, children killing spouse. Once the evidence started coming out I realized quickly he was a victim. A victim that I am sure wished he had gone with his family. I hope he knows he did everything HE could to save them! I know a book was written suggesting otherwise. The author is an idiot. It breaks my heart that he is having to relive this trajedy in such a public place with all eyes watching.

Oh I know I feel horrible for him. I agree at first it did look strange, but his injuries were pretty bad........plus the perps would have sang big time. I think they thought he was dead or on his way there in the basement. I imagine the Dr. was in and out of it while he was tied up and just happened to awaken to the thumps above. I just can't get over why they put cushions under him, its just crazy. It seems like one of these guys had a soft spot, for one moment in time.

jilly
09-16-2010, 01:40 PM
I believe he had a 5 year old daughter at the time. I just don't see how he assaulted Michaela and not saw his own daughter's face. He was so young and I thought at first he went along with hayes but I see he was pure evil. Both were/are!

Yes he does have a daughter. Not sure when she was born but she's a bit older, maybe 8?

Here's an excerpt at a sentencing back in 2002 from the above link, I posted:

At the time of his sentencing, Komisarjevsky claimed to be turning his life around because of the birth of his daughter Jayda. With tears in his eyes, he addressed the judge. "I only pray that I have the opportunity to be able to raise my daughter in the love and the faith that now has new meaning to my life," he said.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/cheshire-murders/12.html

He was sentenced back then for that crime for 9 yrs. Did about 5 yrs and released for good behaviour and given an ankle bracelet. That was removed in July 2007 less than a week before the Petit murders.

QueenD
09-16-2010, 01:44 PM
Oh I know I feel horrible for him. I agree at first it did look strange, but his injuries were pretty bad........plus the perps would have sang big time. I think they thought he was dead or on his way there in the basement. I imagine the Dr. was in and out of it while he was tied up and just happened to awaken to the thumps above. I just can't get over why they put cushions under him, its just crazy. It seems like one of these guys had a soft spot, for one moment in time.

Or maybe the cushions were put there to catch him on fire faster.

MCDRAW
09-16-2010, 02:03 PM
JK spotted Jennifer and the two girls one day and saw their vehicle. He thought they must have money so he followed them home to see where they lived.

They did a couple of other burglaries in the area together the nite before the Petits.

Here's a really good link if you or anyone have not read:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/cheshire-murders/1.html

Oh I know I feel horrible for him. I agree at first it did look strange, but his injuries were pretty bad........plus the perps would have sang big time. I think they thought he was dead or on his way there in the basement. I imagine the Dr. was in and out of it while he was tied up and just happened to awaken to the thumps above. I just can't get over why they put cushions under him, its just crazy. It seems like one of these guys had a soft spot, for one moment in time.


Oh his injuries were terrible...I just hadn't read it at the time.

MCDRAW
09-16-2010, 02:05 PM
Yes he does have a daughter. Not sure when she was born but she's a bit older, maybe 8?

Here's an excerpt at a sentencing back in 2002 from the above link, I posted:

At the time of his sentencing, Komisarjevsky claimed to be turning his life around because of the birth of his daughter Jayda. With tears in his eyes, he addressed the judge. "I only pray that I have the opportunity to be able to raise my daughter in the love and the faith that now has new meaning to my life," he said.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/cheshire-murders/12.html

He was sentenced back then for that crime for 9 yrs. Did about 5 yrs and released for good behaviour and given an ankle bracelet. That was removed in July 2007 less than a week before the Petit murders.


I also just read that Hayes had a teenage son and daughter at time of these crimes.

MCDRAW
09-16-2010, 02:20 PM
Due to Hayes medical condition and information from prison security. Trial has ended for the day. Will adjorn until Monday. Ullman wants jury to know why delay in trial. Judge says he will say something came up. Ullman wanting jury to know makes me think he is trying to scare up some sympathy for Hayes. It didn't work for me!

PrairieWind
09-16-2010, 03:11 PM
Due to Hayes medical condition and information from prison security. Trial has ended for the day. Will adjorn until Monday. Ullman wants jury to know why delay in trial. Judge says he will say something came up. Ullman wanting jury to know makes me think he is trying to scare up some sympathy for Hayes. It didn't work for me!

Thats ridiculous to tell the jury why the trial is delayed for a few days. Clearly meant to gin up sympathy. However, its not relevant to the case, and thus will not be divulged to the jury, and I suspect the prosecution will ask that the defense be prohibited from even mentioning it.

jilly
09-16-2010, 03:52 PM
I don't know if this link was posted earlier but it's a time line from the time of the murders.

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-petit-cheshire-home-invasion-timeline,0,3135848.htmlstory

Cher352
09-16-2010, 03:53 PM
Like the jury is suppose to believe that the sight and evidence of what he did is making him sick...my god if he can do it he should be made to sit there..let him pee all over his self! I no more believe he is sick than I did the last time when they tried to go to trial.

Cher352
09-16-2010, 04:13 PM
Just found this article. The lot where there house stood was turned into a garden. Beautiful pictures!

http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/2010/09/in-the-shadow-of-a-trial-a-gar.html

jilly
09-16-2010, 04:30 PM
Thanks for that Cher! I had no idea what had happened with the home!

PrairieWind
09-16-2010, 05:49 PM
Like the jury is suppose to believe that the sight and evidence of what he did is making him sick...my god if he can do it he should be made to sit there..let him pee all over his self! I no more believe he is sick than I did the last time when they tried to go to trial.

I'm sure he is sick, but its not remorse. Its fear. He knows that in the next few days as testimony/photos come out, the whole world is going to fully know the horrors that he is responsible for. Consequences, that is what is making him sick.

hollyjokers
09-16-2010, 07:17 PM
"He killed 'em with their love. With their love for each other." John Coffey, The Green Mile.

That just popped in my head this afternoon, thinking about the Petit family.

Snick1946
09-16-2010, 08:11 PM
This is probably in the thread but I couldn't find it- what was the name of the book in which the author claimed that Dr Petit was involved?
I cannot get my head around that- how was he supposed to have staged such a thing? Is the author sying he paid these guys to stage an assult, rape his wife and daughter and burn the house? I do admit that in these cases my first impulse when there is a lone survivor is to say oh, sure.. but there just isn't any evidence here. I'd love to look at that book.

ella971
09-16-2010, 08:13 PM
Murder in Connecticut. I think.

jjenny
09-16-2010, 08:28 PM
This is probably in the thread but I couldn't find it- what was the name of the book in which the author claimed that Dr Petit was involved?
I cannot get my head around that- how was he supposed to have staged such a thing? Is the author sying he paid these guys to stage an assult, rape his wife and daughter and burn the house? I do admit that in these cases my first impulse when there is a lone survivor is to say oh, sure.. but there just isn't any evidence here. I'd love to look at that book.

I don't believe this for one millisecond, considering what this poor man went through. And in fact he lost a lot of blood from his injuries, and if he didn't manage to get out of the house when he did, I have no doubt he'd be dead with the rest of his family. And I also have no doubt those two suspects on trial would be singing like canaries to save their own skin if there was a shred of truth in it.

jjenny
09-16-2010, 08:36 PM
Thats a real mystery, unless one of these guys is going to testify and just tell what happened. Possible. BUt i agree that they usually were just burglars, not violent. And I can't help but think this started out that way as well. But something changed. One of them, Hayes i think, said to teh police that "things got out of control." I imagine it probably started with the sexual assault of the girl. And once that happened, the animals probably figured that they had to kill them to destroy evidence.

If you ask me, burglars and "not violent" shouldn't be in the same sentence. If a burglar goes into an occupied home, what do you think that burglar is going to do in case the occupant of the home wakes up and comes face to face with the burglar?

jjenny
09-16-2010, 08:46 PM
I am very ashamed to admit that when this story first came out, I suspected Dr. Petit was involved. His injuries weren't life threatening, he got out in nick of time...

Considering how much blood the poor man is said to have lost, his injuries were very much life-threatening.

Native New Yorker
09-16-2010, 08:53 PM
One of the people to blame for this crime, IMHO, is the judge or judges, who let JK
( sorry, but will not dignify these monsters by name) out after he had broken into occupied homes, with night vision goggles......
who in their right mind would not see that a youngish perp would continue to do this type of thing, and possibly escalate the crime, especially in combination with another criminal.....
I do not understand the judge or judges who let JK out with just a slap on the wrist. He had repeat violations.
Oh, and also be prepared for JK to claim that being ADOPTED by a wealthy Russian family is the cause for his life of crime, too. Nope, not his fault, not at all.....

MCDRAW
09-16-2010, 11:06 PM
Considering how much blood the poor man is said to have lost, his injuries were very much life-threatening.


Yes they were. And I guess I didn't explain myself very well. The minute I heard this case my first thought was he was involved. AFTER I READ ABOUT THE CASE I KNEW HE WAS A VICTIM!!!!! There are so many cases that spouses kill spouses, I can not be the only one that at the moment they heard the case did not suspect the spouse! After I read the news I KNEW HE WAS A VICTIM!!!! I hope that explains it better!

Native New Yorker
09-16-2010, 11:49 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5353560-504083.html

Not sure how many of these horrifying details are true....

MCDRAW
09-17-2010, 05:49 AM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-5353560-504083.html

Not sure how many of these horrifying details are true....


There really is no way of telling which details are true and those that are KJ's fantasy but OMG the details are horrifying either way!

Cher352
09-17-2010, 07:57 AM
Those details came from Mcdonald's interview and book. That is the book that Dr Petit asked people not to buy.

Cher352
09-17-2010, 08:11 AM
Grim photos dominate Conn. murder trial
Photos included images of rope, burned clothing
Updated: Friday, 17 Sep 2010, 8:02 AM EDT
Published : Friday, 17 Sep 2010, 8:01 AM EDT

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) - Prosecutors showed jurors grim photos Thursday of rope used to tie up victims, ripped clothing and ransacked rooms in a suburban home invasion that began with the suspects trailing a mother and her two girls at a supermarket and ended with their deaths.

(Link in the center of the page takes you to the slideshow of the pics....grim indeed!)

jjenny
09-17-2010, 10:58 AM
I don't know as a Mother that I could stay inside the bank. But it may have saved them all, if nothing else it would have given the police more information to work with and hopefully get there in time to prevent these senseless deaths. She did what she thought was right, that is all anyone can do. Something I learned in a Criminal Justice class, if someone breaks in when they know you are home, they are prbably there to hurt you. If not why not wait until everyone is gone. Mrs. Petit wouldn't have known that. I'm sure they were a very trusting family. I really don't think anyone is suggesting that she should have saved her life and left her children to die. I know I am NOT. But I think if a little time could have been bought it MAY have turned out differently.

From the bank 911 call, the 911 caller says (I am paraphrasing), if the police are told, the suspects would kill the husband and children, but if she gives them the money the husband and children will not be harmed. The mother still alerted the bank but if that's what she was told by the suspects then no wonder why she did what she did.

PrairieWind
09-17-2010, 11:09 AM
I don't believe this for one millisecond, considering what this poor man went through. And in fact he lost a lot of blood from his injuries, and if he didn't manage to get out of the house when he did, I have no doubt he'd be dead with the rest of his family. And I also have no doubt those two suspects on trial would be singing like canaries to save their own skin if there was a shred of truth in it.

I think lots of people's first impulse was to think the husband was somehow involved in this. I did. However, that just goes as a reminder to not jump to conclusions to quickly. If he was involved, these two defendants would have spilled the beans a long time ago.

MCDRAW
09-17-2010, 11:18 AM
I think maybe it was the sexual element. One or both had seen the younger daughter with her mother at the store and followed them home. Plenty of time for obsession to develop before breaking in.


I commented on this yesterday but after reading several articles, I now believe you are right about the sexual obsession. I guess I didn't want to think that way since Michaela reminds me of one of mine.

PrairieWind
09-17-2010, 11:23 AM
I commented on this yesterday but after reading several articles, I now believe you are right about the sexual obsession. I guess I didn't want to think that way since Michaela reminds me of one of mine.

I just read an article that talked about how JK had long had a fascination with younger girls. So I think that part of it was clearly sexual.

Snick1946
09-17-2010, 12:54 PM
I commented on this yesterday but after reading several articles, I now believe you are right about the sexual obsession. I guess I didn't want to think that way since Michaela reminds me of one of mine.

I didn't want to go there either. My child is the same age. What makes it so much worse is that the younger perp had a daughter close to her age. These are people- speaking broadly- that have totally different thought patterns than the rest of us.

Garnan
09-17-2010, 01:22 PM
I was Googling this case yesterday and ran across some website by some Catholic- I think- group that opposes Capital punishment. There was some article on there about how terrible it was that Dr Petit insisted on a trial for this and didnt let these guys plead guilty. The author's point was that their confessions would have helped 'heal their souls.' What balderdash. Some people live in this world all their lives and never understand that there are truly evil people out there in it.
Sounds like the guy who is being tried is not having a comfortable time of it. Good.
One observation, hindsight is 20/20 but I wonder what would have happened if the cops had made their presence known maybe by sounding a siren upon arrival? Am I correct that Dr Petit escaped from the house and made it to a neighbor's all the time these cops were sitting outside? The neighbor called 911 and the operator acted like she didn't know cops were there already?


So who's stopping them from confessing? Go ahead, confess and then we'll execute you. Suits me fine.

caroline
09-17-2010, 03:56 PM
Grim photos dominate Conn. murder trial
Photos included images of rope, burned clothing
Updated: Friday, 17 Sep 2010, 8:02 AM EDT
Published : Friday, 17 Sep 2010, 8:01 AM EDT

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) - Prosecutors showed jurors grim photos Thursday of rope used to tie up victims, ripped clothing and ransacked rooms in a suburban home invasion that began with the suspects trailing a mother and her two girls at a supermarket and ended with their deaths.

(Link in the center of the page takes you to the slideshow of the pics....grim indeed!)

Cher, what paper did you find this in?

jjenny
09-17-2010, 08:27 PM
I think lots of people's first impulse was to think the husband was somehow involved in this. I did. However, that just goes as a reminder to not jump to conclusions to quickly. If he was involved, these two defendants would have spilled the beans a long time ago.

I never thought so for a second. I realize there have been some husbands that got someone to kill their wife, but we are talking about rape and murder of an 11 year old little girl here.

Cher352
09-17-2010, 09:25 PM
Cher, what paper did you find this in?

Gosh I can't believe I forgot the link! I will go back and add it. :blushing:
Thanks for catching that!!


http://www.wwlp.com/dpps/news/national/northeast/grim-photos-dominate-conn-home-invasion-trial-nt10-jgr_3584058

Cher352
09-17-2010, 09:27 PM
Grim photos dominate Conn. murder trial
Photos included images of rope, burned clothing
Updated: Friday, 17 Sep 2010, 8:02 AM EDT
Published : Friday, 17 Sep 2010, 8:01 AM EDT

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) - Prosecutors showed jurors grim photos Thursday of rope used to tie up victims, ripped clothing and ransacked rooms in a suburban home invasion that began with the suspects trailing a mother and her two girls at a supermarket and ended with their deaths.

(Link in the center of the page takes you to the slideshow of the pics....grim indeed!)

Sorry I forgot the link to this article when I posted this morning.

Here it is:

http://www.wwlp.com/dpps/news/national/northeast/grim-photos-dominate-conn-home-invasion-trial-nt10-jgr_3584058

scrabble
09-18-2010, 08:48 AM
Such a tragic and sad case. I read that Mr. Petit was on blood thinners -- just an observance, and I don't know about his overall health before the tragedy, but in his photos, he appears very overweight to me. I read that Mrs. Petit had MS but I thought she appeared very attractive and healthy. God be with the whole family and daughters. This is one of the worst tragedies that I have ever heard about, barring the Richard Speck murder of eight nurses in Chicago in 1966.

jjenny
09-18-2010, 09:11 AM
Such a tragic and sad case. I read that Mr. Petit was on blood thinners -- just an observance, and I don't know about his overall health before the tragedy, but in his photos, he appears very overweight to me. I read that Mrs. Petit had MS but I thought she appeared very attractive and healthy. God be with the whole family and daughters. This is one of the worst tragedies that I have ever heard about, barring the Richard Speck murder of eight nurses in Chicago in 1966.

Since Dr. Petit was taking a blood thinner then his wounds were even more life threatening because he could have easily bled to death. Patients with MS have variable symptoms so while some patient can be in a wheelchair others might have barely any symptoms at all. Also with some patients episodes alternate with periods of remission where they have no symptoms at all.

jilly
09-18-2010, 12:43 PM
There was some discussion earlier as to when Jennifer Petit was raped.

With three packages of $5,000, Ms. Hawke-Petit went home, where she was raped and strangled, and where her daughters, Michaela, 11, and Hayley, 17, were killed, tied to their beds in a house that was set ablaze with gasoline.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/nyregion/14cheshire.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=hayes%20trial&st=cse

jjenny
09-18-2010, 01:19 PM
I just read an article that talked about how JK had long had a fascination with younger girls. So I think that part of it was clearly sexual.

When he was 21, he got his 15 year old girlfriend pregnant.
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/cheshire-murders/13.html

Native New Yorker
09-18-2010, 05:22 PM
There was some discussion earlier as to when Jennifer Petit was raped.

With three packages of $5,000, Ms. Hawke-Petit went home, where she was raped and strangled, and where her daughters, Michaela, 11, and Hayley, 17, were killed, tied to their beds in a house that was set ablaze with gasoline.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/nyregion/14cheshire.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=hayes%20trial&st=cse

Mrs. Petit had already spent several hours tied up in the master bedroom
( pics of restraints shown in photo gallery referenced a few pages back)
where she was presumably raped ( By SH, I believe) prior to the bank visit.

Perhaps this was the first assault on her by the other perp.

jjenny
09-18-2010, 06:07 PM
Mrs. Petit had already spent several hours tied up in the master bedroom
( pics of restraints shown in photo gallery referenced a few pages back)
where she was presumably raped ( By SH, I believe) prior to the bank visit.

Perhaps this was the first assault on her by the other perp.

That's what I thought as well, but she might have been raped after she came back from the bank and not before. They might have kept her tied up before one of them took her to the bank. Maybe she was raped and then murdered after she came back.
"According to Joshua Komisarjevsky, in questioning by investigators and journalist Brian McDonald, Steven Hayes was "getting violent" with Jennifer Hawke-Petit. He says he came downstairs to find the older man raping and strangling the mother. At some point, according to Komisarjevsky, Hayes said they would have to burn everything to get rid of the witnesses and the evidence."
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/cheshire-murders/18.html

jilly
09-18-2010, 06:36 PM
Mrs. Petit had already spent several hours tied up in the master bedroom
( pics of restraints shown in photo gallery referenced a few pages back)
where she was presumably raped ( By SH, I believe) prior to the bank visit.

Perhaps this was the first assault on her by the other perp.

According to info that we've received SH is the only one that raped Mrs P. JK was only interested in the youngest daughter.

jilly
09-18-2010, 06:52 PM
That's what I thought as well, but she might have been raped after she came back from the bank and not before. They might have kept her tied up before one of them took her to the bank. Maybe she was raped and then murdered after she came back.
"According to Joshua Komisarjevsky, in questioning by investigators and journalist Brian McDonald, Steven Hayes was "getting violent" with Jennifer Hawke-Petit. He says he came downstairs to find the older man raping and strangling the mother. At some point, according to Komisarjevsky, Hayes said they would have to burn everything to get rid of the witnesses and the evidence."
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/cheshire-murders/18.html

Thanks for this. It would make sense too that all the bedrooms were upstairs in that particular house so the rape wouldn't have happened up there. (If what JK says is true).

I think they were all tied up at first so they could ransack the house.

Native New Yorker
09-18-2010, 10:55 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/nyregion/19cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Excellent article comparing this case to the Lindbergh baby murder case.

jjenny
09-19-2010, 11:30 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/19/nyregion/19cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

Excellent article comparing this case to the Lindbergh baby murder case.

Hayes lost weight and maybe had a seizure? I can only hope the jury does not fall for it. I think it will be devastating to Dr. Petit if these two don't get the death penalty. Even if it's only symbolic and will never be carried out.

Native New Yorker
09-19-2010, 11:43 AM
Someone must have told him that people sometimes wet themselves during a seizure....he is most definitely going for sympathy, probably not eating much on purpose,too.....

No sympathy for these monsters, none whatsoever....I think that the DP is too good for them, they should just rot in solitary, no visitors, nothing.

jjenny
09-19-2010, 11:59 AM
Someone must have told him that people sometimes wet themselves during a seizure....he is most definitely going for sympathy, probably not eating much on purpose,too.....

No sympathy for these monsters, none whatsoever....I think that the DP is too good for them, they should just rot in solitary, no visitors, nothing.

I say put them in a general population of prison, especially considering one of them is accused of a rape of 11 year old child.
I don't think other prisoners like accused child rapists.

MCDRAW
09-19-2010, 01:31 PM
I never thought so for a second. I realize there have been some husbands that got someone to kill their wife, but we are talking about rape and murder of an 11 year old little girl here.


Just so you know my first thought was before the evidence came out..so had not heard that anyone was raped, strangled, not sure I had heard of fire. I read home invasion kills three, father escaped. That is all I had to go on at time. As the evidence came out of, the horrors they went through, of course, I didn't think it was him. Either you had more info at the very minute you heard this case or you are not as cynical. But please stop trying to making those of us that did initially suspect feel any worse than we do. I'm sure the ones that thought it intially, only had as little evidence as I did.

Native New Yorker
09-19-2010, 01:37 PM
please do not feel bad! I thought it as well, perhaps because I have run into cases where fathers actually did rape their own daughters.
I think that many of us are JADED by the things we know....

jjenny
09-19-2010, 05:39 PM
please do not feel bad! I thought it as well, perhaps because I have run into cases where fathers actually did rape their own daughters.
I think that many of us are JADED by the things we know....

I think sometimes people feel it easier to blame the victim for doing something wrong because if the victim did do something wrong then the same thing isn't going to happen to them.
So it's easier to think that this somehow wasn't a random home invasion.
I think it's a real miracle Dr. Petit made it. He lost 5-7 pints of blood, which clearly is life-threatening. And if he didn't manage to hop out, he certainly would have died of smoke inhalation like his children.

MCDRAW
09-19-2010, 10:52 PM
I think sometimes people feel it easier to blame the victim for doing something wrong because if the victim did do something wrong then the same thing isn't going to happen to them.
So it's easier to think that this somehow wasn't a random home invasion.
I think it's a real miracle Dr. Petit made it. He lost 5-7 pints of blood, which clearly is life-threatening. And if he didn't manage to hop out, he certainly would have died of smoke inhalation like his children.


I know you are right many people do think that way hoping it won't happen to them. I am not one of those people because I know that bad things happen to very good people all the time.

MCDRAW
09-19-2010, 11:57 PM
Just saw on Twitter News8Now said trial postponed until wednesday due to judge being hospitalized. That may or may not be confirmed.

Cher352
09-20-2010, 08:44 AM
Just saw on Twitter News8Now said trial postponed until wednesday due to judge being hospitalized. That may or may not be confirmed.

OMG this getting this case to trial has had so many delays already!
Hope the judge gets well soon if this is true.

Cher352
09-20-2010, 08:50 AM
Guess it is true...

Hayes Murder Trial Postponed
Updated 8:26 AM EDT, Mon, Sep 20, 2010

The murder trial of Steven Hayes is postponed until Wednesday because the judge is hospitalized with an undisclosed ailment.

Judge Jon Blue is listed in good condition at Yale-New Haven Hospital on Monday, an upgrade from fair condition on Sunday.

Yale-New Haven Hospital spokesman Mark D'Antonio said it's not clear when the judge will be discharged.

According to a report in the Hartford Courant, Judge Blue, was hospitalized after feeling light-headed.

An on-call executive at the hospital confirmed Blue was being treated there and gave his condition but wouldn't release any other information.

In the past, court proceedings have been delayed due to Steven Hayes' health problems.

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local-beat/Hayes-Murder-Trial-Postponed-103254854.html

Native New Yorker
09-20-2010, 09:43 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010/09/19/us/AP-US-Home-Invasion.html?partner=rss&emc=rss


"Blue is presiding over the trial of Steven Hayes, who's accused with another man in the killings of a woman and her two daughters at their Cheshire home.
Both defendants also are accused of sexual assault and setting fire to the house. They have tried to blame each other for escalating the crime."

jilly
09-20-2010, 09:43 AM
Upgraded to "fair"?? Doesn't sound that good. Hope it isn't his heart.

Native New Yorker
09-20-2010, 10:40 AM
And, if they have to switch judges, you know the defense will call for a mistrial!!! Grrrrrrr.

jjenny
09-20-2010, 11:48 AM
Upgraded to "fair"?? Doesn't sound that good. Hope it isn't his heart.

No. He was upgraded from fair to good condition.
Which doesn't sound too serious at all.

Cher352
09-20-2010, 03:57 PM
Judge in Hayes trial undergoing medical tests, expected back Wednesday
Published: Monday, September 20, 2010

NEW HAVEN — Superior Court Judge Jon C. Blue is ‘feeling very well” today and is expected to resume presiding over the Cheshire triple slaying case against Steven Hayes on Wednesday, another judge reported today.

Judge Roland Fasano, speaking to reporters and others gathered for news about the trial delay, said he spoke to Blue today from the hospital.

“He is undergoing observation and testing, he’s feeling very well,” said Fasano.

“He feels he will be ready to go Wednesday.”

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2010/09/20/news/doc4c97709c61883387052664.txt

PrairieWind
09-20-2010, 05:23 PM
So this book that came out that blamed Dr. Petit for the crime, has anyone read it? I just wondered what that author's theory was? I wont dignify it by actually purchasing nor checking out the book itself.

jilly
09-20-2010, 06:47 PM
No. He was upgraded from fair to good condition.
Which doesn't sound too serious at all.

Sorry but the article I was responding (posted by Cher) said that this morning. It's since been updated.

I'm glad that he seems to have recovered!:)

jjenny
09-20-2010, 07:45 PM
So this book that came out that blamed Dr. Petit for the crime, has anyone read it? I just wondered what that author's theory was? I wont dignify it by actually purchasing nor checking out the book itself.

I haven't been able to verify that such a book exists. There are couple of books published that are on amazon.com, but their description don't suggest anything of the sort.

browneyes
09-20-2010, 11:56 PM
I am coming in late on this, so forgive me if this has been discussed. If 911 was called while Mrs. Petit was still in the bank or shortly after she left, how did the police not get to her house and prevent her rape/murder and the deaths of her 2 daughters? I am not looking to place blame, but I don't understand this at all??? :waitasec:

Poor Dr. Petit, I wish him strength during all these delays to bring these monsters to justice.

MCDRAW
09-21-2010, 01:03 AM
So this book that came out that blamed Dr. Petit for the crime, has anyone read it? I just wondered what that author's theory was? I wont dignify it by actually purchasing nor checking out the book itself.


I have heard about it. I believe Dr. Petit wanted the one boycotted that was written from interviews with Joshua K. Not sure of the author 's name. I won't buy it. I think I read excerpts from it from a link Cher gave but not positive on that. Don't plan on reading it either. Who would know what was truth and what was fantasy coming from that sick JoshuaK?

jjenny
09-21-2010, 01:06 AM
I have heard about it. I believe Dr. Petit wanted the one boycotted that was written from interviews with Joshua K. Not sure of the author 's name. I won't buy it. I think I read excerpts from it from a link Cher gave but not positive on that. Don't plan on reading it either. Who would know what was truth and what was fantasy coming from that sick JoshuaK?

The book based on the interviews with JK does not blame Dr. Petit for the crime.

jjenny
09-21-2010, 01:08 AM
I am coming in late on this, so forgive me if this has been discussed. If 911 was called while Mrs. Petit was still in the bank or shortly after she left, how did the police not get to her house and prevent her rape/murder and the deaths of her 2 daughters? I am not looking to place blame, but I don't understand this at all??? :waitasec:

Poor Dr. Petit, I wish him strength during all these delays to bring these monsters to justice.

Unfortunately police were setting up a perimeter around the house and did not enter the house until it was too late.

MCDRAW
09-21-2010, 01:09 AM
I am coming in late on this, so forgive me if this has been discussed. If 911 was called while Mrs. Petit was still in the bank or shortly after she left, how did the police not get to her house and prevent her rape/murder and the deaths of her 2 daughters? I am not looking to place blame, but I don't understand this at all??? :waitasec:

Poor Dr. Petit, I wish him strength during all these delays to bring these monsters to justice.


Basically, I believe it was one of those things where they were not sure what they were dealing with, how many etc. In that small nice town they probably don't deal with these things often. It is just so hard to think about that the police were right there and the victims couldn't be saved.

MCDRAW
09-21-2010, 01:13 AM
The book based on the interviews with JK does not blame Dr. Petit for the crime.


Ok I wasn't sure. I know he asked that it be boycotted because it was a pornagraphic tale. I know one came out placing blame with Dr. Petit because I read an article when it came out. Since I have no desire to read such drivel I havn't looked into it further.

jjenny
09-21-2010, 01:18 AM
Ok I wasn't sure. I know he asked that it be boycotted because it was a pornagraphic tale. I know one came out placing blame with Dr. Petit because I read an article when it came out. Since I have no desire to read such drivel I havn't looked into it further.

I can not find anything to verify the existence of a book placing blame with Dr. Petit. I see two books on amazon but neither one blames Dr. Petit.

MCDRAW
09-21-2010, 01:23 AM
I can not find anything to verify the existence of a book placing blame with Dr. Petit. I see two books on amazon but neither one blames Dr. Petit.


Well you would know like I said I have no desire to read it so I haven't looked for it.

jjenny
09-21-2010, 01:25 AM
Well you would know like I said I have no desire to read it so I haven't looked for it.

I don't think it exists. I fail to see how something like this could have been published, because of libel.

MCDRAW
09-21-2010, 01:42 AM
I don't think it exists. I fail to see how something like this could have been published, because of libel.


I don't know that it does exist. I just said I heard about a book being written blaming Dr. Petit. I have no desire to read it so have not checked to see if it does exist. Not everything that is printed is the truth.

jjenny
09-21-2010, 01:46 AM
I don't know that it does exist. I just said I heard about a book being written blaming Dr. Petit. I have no desire to read it so have not checked to see if it does exist. Not everything that is printed is the truth.

Do you have a link to the article you say you read about this book?

MCDRAW
09-21-2010, 01:57 AM
Do you have a link to the article you say you read about this book?


The article about Joshua K's interviews was the link that Cher gave. The other book was one I read about a long time ago, only remember it mentioning that that author put blame on Dr. Petit. The book may never have been published for all I know. I had no desire to read it or know more about it. Seriously I have stated several times that I have only heard about one, I have said over and over that I don't know that it actually exist. I don't care a thing about reading such a book.

Cher352
09-21-2010, 02:15 AM
Trial judge in Hayes’ case released from hospital: Blue sought medical attention after feeling ‘light-headed,’ sources say
Published: Tuesday, September 21, 2010

NEW HAVEN — Superior Court Judge Jon C. Blue was released from Yale-New Haven Hospital Monday afternoon, clearing the way for the resumption of Steven J. Hayes’ trial in the Cheshire triple homicide Wednesday.

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2010/09/21/news/doc4c982f7c311aa202294249.txt

Cher352
09-21-2010, 02:34 AM
The article about Joshua K's interviews was the link that Cher gave. The other book was one I read about a long time ago, only remember it mentioning that that author put blame on Dr. Petit. The book may never have been published for all I know. I had no desire to read it or know more about it. Seriously I have stated several times that I have only heard about one, I have said over and over that I don't know that it actually exist. I don't care a thing about reading such a book.

The Brian McDonald book I referenced in my post that written from interviews with JK was In the Middle of the Night. This is the one the family asked people not to buy so that no one would profit off the story and those interviews. The other book I know of is Murder in Connecticut. Neither insinuate that Dr Petit is involved that I know of but then again I haven't read either of them.

MCDRAW
09-21-2010, 02:44 AM
The Brian McDonald book I referenced in my post that written from interviews with JK was In the Middle of the Night. This is the one the family asked people not to buy so that no one would profit off the story and those interviews. The other book I know of is Murder in Connecticut. Neither insinuate that Dr Petit is involved that I know of but then again I haven't read either of them.


I haven't read them either. When I read your link I saw that they had asked people to boycott it. I'm not sure the book I heard about a long time ago even became a book. There was a huge outcry and well there should have been. Like I said I had no desire to read it so I didn't keep up with the story.

MCDRAW
09-21-2010, 02:46 AM
Trial judge in Hayes’ case released from hospital: Blue sought medical attention after feeling ‘light-headed,’ sources say
Published: Tuesday, September 21, 2010

NEW HAVEN — Superior Court Judge Jon C. Blue was released from Yale-New Haven Hospital Monday afternoon, clearing the way for the resumption of Steven J. Hayes’ trial in the Cheshire triple homicide Wednesday.

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2010/09/21/news/doc4c982f7c311aa202294249.txt


I am so glad to hear the judge is better and out of the hospital.

Snick1946
09-21-2010, 10:21 AM
I Googled 'Murder in Connectecut" and found a site with excerpts from the book, was able to read a few chapters. There was nothing I could see that in any way blamed Dr Petit. The other book is available on Amazon:

Amazon.com: In the Middle of the Night: The Shocking True Story of a Family Killed in Cold Blood (St. Martin's True Crime Library) (9780312945749): Brian McDonald: Books

Just reviews available, nothing I can see that indicates this book blames anyone other than the intruders. I think perhaps Dr Petit objected, and justly so, to how that author got his interview with one of the perps and that he included details about the younger daughters sexual molestation. That author looks to have a pretty decent resume.

shefner
09-21-2010, 10:41 AM
I live in a small town of about 6,000.....I just can't imagine the police not arriving in unmarked cars at the bank before Mrs. Petit even had time to leave. They could have swarmed that place and not allowed the victim's vehicle to leave...while also, at the same time, covering the house. Mrs. Petit knew there were only 2 perpetrators, one in the car and one at the house. It would be easy to get them while separated. I am not trying to blame the local police but I really question their response.
I have actually been at the ATM at my bank before and seen 5 squad cars come squalling into the parking lot, cops rushing out with their guns drawn....and it was a false alarm. Scared me to death but still glad to know they are on top of things.

jjenny
09-21-2010, 11:33 AM
I live in a small town of about 6,000.....I just can't imagine the police not arriving in unmarked cars at the bank before Mrs. Petit even had time to leave. They could have swarmed that place and not allowed the victim's vehicle to leave...while also, at the same time, covering the house. Mrs. Petit knew there were only 2 perpetrators, one in the car and one at the house. It would be easy to get them while separated. I am not trying to blame the local police but I really question their response.
I have actually been at the ATM at my bank before and seen 5 squad cars come squalling into the parking lot, cops rushing out with their guns drawn....and it was a false alarm. Scared me to death but still glad to know they are on top of things.

I question the police response also. It was quite a long time they appear to have been sitting outside the house setting a perimeter. They apparently did not try to contact the occupants of the house during that time.
If the suspects knew police were outside then potentially there could have been a different outcome because the suspects would have realized they were caught.
But hindsight is always 20-20.

smile22
09-21-2010, 02:20 PM
i live in conn about half hr from the murders.the police went back and forth with phone calls to who knows what before actualy dispatching the call the cops are just to blame as the perps they took forever to get there. i dont remember if one of the perps was in the car but if he was and she was in the bank why didnt she just tell the bank people to hid her and call 911

browneyes
09-21-2010, 03:13 PM
I question the police response also. It was quite a long time they appear to have been sitting outside the house setting a perimeter. They apparently did not try to contact the occupants of the house during that time.
If the suspects knew police were outside then potentially there could have been a different outcome because the suspects would have realized they were caught.
But hindsight is always 20-20.

I agree with this. My son is in LE, so I rarely place any blame on them unless really warranted. I feel the police really dropped the ball in this case. If they would have just rung the door bell, announced themselves and interrupted the plans, maybe there would have been a different outcome. They could have gone in through the basement. I don't know what to think. They know 2 men are holding a family hostage and just set up outside the house? Whoever was in charge of making those decisions must feel horrible now and rightly so. I wish they would have been more aggressive in their response. I can't help but feel it would have saved those women's lives. Hopefully, they have revised the way they would respond to something like this in the future. It's all so very sad.

One more question I have had about this case. Did the Petit's have an alarm system?

jilly
09-21-2010, 03:22 PM
According to one policeman on the stand they were going by the book - following protocol for a hostage taking.

They knew that 2 men were in that house with 3 hostages. They also knew that the perps had succeeded in getting $15K. Since the perps now had their money, didn't they consider that they might kill the hostages? Especially after seeing Dr Petit in his condition?

I dunno. All I can say is that I would not want to be one of the cops. I'm sure this crime has haunted each one of them - second guessing, what ifs.

jilly
09-21-2010, 03:35 PM
I agree with this. My son is in LE, so I rarely place any blame on them unless really warranted. I feel the police really dropped the ball in this case. If they would have just rung the door bell, announced themselves and interrupted the plans, maybe there would have been a different outcome. They could have gone in through the basement. I don't know what to think. They know 2 men are holding a family hostage and just set up outside the house? Whoever was in charge of making those decisions must feel horrible now and rightly so. I wish they would have been more aggressive in their response. I can't help but feel it would have saved those women's lives. Hopefully, they have revised the way they would respond to something like this in the future. It's all so very sad.

One more question I have had about this case. Did the Petit's have an alarm system?

Hey browneyes!

Here's a link for the cross of Capt Vignola regarding the police response:

Excerpt: Vignola was excused from the stand and hurried from the courtroom without acknowledging Petit, sitting in the front row.

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-petit-day3-0916-20100915,0,2004656.story?page=2

hollyjokers
09-21-2010, 04:10 PM
I also wondered about the police "setting up a perimeter" - in my very limited knowledge, I would have thought this meant having a visual on the house from all angles, yet they managed to miss a man with a bloody head rolling across two backyards to the neighbors house.

shefner
09-21-2010, 05:28 PM
The perfect time to act was while Mrs. Petit was still located inside the bank. The two criminals were separated. As the bank manager called the police, Mrs. Petit was standing at the counter waiting to receive the money. She told them that one of the perps was in the vehicle with her. All the cops had to do was drive over in a couple unmarked cars and enter the bank to receive all the info they needed. They could have surrounded Hayes as he sat in the parking lot and had him and his cell phone in an instant.

The other perp was at home with the other victims. Apparently the oldest daughter was ready to fight and was almost loose from her ties. Sneaking in through the basement seems like a perfect way for the cops to surprise the criminal...after all, Mrs. Petit could have provided information quickly to the officers. Just a few answers would have helped them....
Who is at the house and where are they being held?
Give us a quick layout of the home...

I think all of these victims would have survived this ordeal if LE had responded quickly.

jjenny
09-21-2010, 07:53 PM
The perfect time to act was while Mrs. Petit was still located inside the bank. The two criminals were separated. As the bank manager called the police, Mrs. Petit was standing at the counter waiting to receive the money. She told them that one of the perps was in the vehicle with her. All the cops had to do was drive over in a couple unmarked cars and enter the bank to receive all the info they needed. They could have surrounded Hayes as he sat in the parking lot and had him and his cell phone in an instant.

The other perp was at home with the other victims. Apparently the oldest daughter was ready to fight and was almost loose from her ties. Sneaking in through the basement seems like a perfect way for the cops to surprise the criminal...after all, Mrs. Petit could have provided information quickly to the officers. Just a few answers would have helped them....
Who is at the house and where are they being held?
Give us a quick layout of the home...

I think all of these victims would have survived this ordeal if LE had responded quickly.

Unfortunately, from the 911 call, the perps told the mother that she and her children will not be harmed if she gave them the money. If the police were notified, the family would be killed, based on 911 call.
And the mother believed it so she didn't try to stall. Thus she left before the 911 call from the bank was even completed. Based on the timeline though, the first policeman was on the scene minutes after the call, but he was told not to enter the house. The two suspects had no idea police were near the house, because police haven't tried to contact the homeowners at all.
If the suspects knew police were near the house quite possibly there would have been a different outcome, but who knows.

browneyes
09-21-2010, 07:57 PM
Hey browneyes!

Here's a link for the cross of Capt Vignola regarding the police response:

Excerpt: Vignola was excused from the stand and hurried from the courtroom without acknowledging Petit, sitting in the front row.

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-petit-day3-0916-20100915,0,2004656.story?page=2


Thank you so much for the link. Wow, it says the Capt. was agitated by the questioning. How does he think Dr. Petit feels? I still believe had the police approached this differently, these women would have been spared. I hope whatever protocol they followed has been trashed and rewritten. I mean, they didn't even call the house or ring the bell to check on the Petits? How sad.

jilly
09-21-2010, 09:45 PM
Thank you so much for the link. Wow, it says the Capt. was agitated by the questioning. How does he think Dr. Petit feels? I still believe had the police approached this differently, these women would have been spared. I hope whatever protocol they followed has been trashed and rewritten. I mean, they didn't even call the house or ring the bell to check on the Petits? How sad.

YW. That's the thing - it is very very sad.

Both Dr Petit and his family were very vocal after the crime:

DEC. 18, 2007: William Petit sends legislators an e-mail asking them to quickly revise the state's parole system.

MARCH 12, 2008: William Petit's sister, Johanna Petit
Chapman, urges legislators to pass a three-strikes law that includes a mandatory life sentence after three violent crimes.

OCT. 2008: Dr. Petit says he is willing to stand with any political candidate who pledges to support a mandatory life sentence on violent three-time felons.

MARCH 4, 2009: Dr. Petit tells lawmakers that the death penalty should be repaired not scrapped. "Any penalty less than death for murder is unjust," he said.

MAY 13, 2009: The state House of Representatives votes to abolish the death penalty and instead impose life in prison without the possibility of release.

JUNE 6, 2009: Gov. Rell vetoes the bill that would have repealed the death penalty in Connecticut.

JULY 1, 2008: Rev. Richard Hawke and Marybelle Hawke,parents of Hawke-Petit, publicly question the Cheshire police response time.

http://www.courant.com/news/connecticut/hc-petit-cheshire-home-invasion-timeline,0,3135848.htmlstory

WellDone
09-21-2010, 10:55 PM
Praying for swift & severe justice!

Cher352
09-22-2010, 09:59 AM
Looks like trial about to continue.

Follow on twitter:

http://twitter.com/NotesFromHeL

http://twitter.com/News8Now

http://twitter.com/nhregister

http://twitter.com/Record_Journal

Cher352
09-22-2010, 10:34 AM
So many of the family items and evidences found with them it seems like a waste to bother even having a trial.

I know...constitutional right...but sometimes I wonder.

ohiogirl
09-22-2010, 10:44 AM
IIRC, the defense atty is not asserting innocence at all, just what the penalty will be because the DA would not make a plea deal.

tapu
09-22-2010, 10:46 AM
So many of the family items and evidences found with them it seems like a waste to bother even having a trial.

I know...constitutional right...but sometimes I wonder.

They're having a trial because even though the accused wanted to enter a guilty plea and receive LWOP, the Prosecution wouldn't accept it because they wanted to go for the DP. The DP is also the wish of Dr. Petit.

(Not to open up a whole theoretical discussion on this, but I've wondered lately if it's right to consider victims' families' attitudes toward the DP as a factor in going for it. There is another case in the news right now where a defendent was allowed to plead guilty and get LWOP because the victims' families didn't believe in the DP. Hmmm.)

Cher352
09-22-2010, 11:23 AM
Defense: BB Gun used in the crime wasn't loaded and didn't have a gas cartridge needed to fire it.

http://twitter.com/nhregister


Wonder if the family knew would it have mattered, the perps still had that baseball bat.

dgfred
09-22-2010, 11:31 AM
Unfortunately, from the 911 call, the perps told the mother that she and her children will not be harmed if she gave them the money. If the police were notified, the family would be killed, based on 911 call.
And the mother believed it so she didn't try to stall. Thus she left before the 911 call from the bank was even completed. Based on the timeline though, the first policeman was on the scene minutes after the call, but he was told not to enter the house. The two suspects had no idea police were near the house, because police haven't tried to contact the homeowners at all.
If the suspects knew police were near the house quite possibly there would have been a different outcome, but who knows.

Yes, I wish they had 'swarmed' the home as soon as they possibly could.

JulieR
09-22-2010, 11:33 AM
They're having a trial because even though the accused wanted to enter a guilty plea and receive LWOP, the Prosecution wouldn't accept it because they wanted to go for the DP. The DP is also the wish of Dr. Petit.

(Not to open up a whole theoretical discussion on this, but I've wondered lately if it's right to consider victims' families' attitudes toward the DP as a factor in going for it. There is another case in the news right now where a defendent was allowed to plead guilty and get LWOP because the victims' families didn't believe in the DP. Hmmm.)



I think its good they are going for death, only because (well he deserves it) but also so he is left in a cell by himself and not out living it up with others like him. I have no idea what the prison system is like there but in some places it's like a resort. Hardly what I would call punishment. Heck it would take years for him to get put to death anyway, but at least he would have to live with what he has done all by himself 24 hours a day. They say it makes a person go crazy..........

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 11:34 AM
I wouldnt be too hard on the police. They had very little information that had been relayed through several people. Sure, in hindsight they should have gone right to the house and those policies need to allow for more discretion on the part of officers. But I'm sure those officers will be haunted for the rest of their lives by what "could have been." As for the testifying officer, it was best for him to say as little as possible, and walk directly out of the court room afterwards. Had he showed emotion to Dr. Petit, you never know how a jury would interpret that.

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 11:37 AM
They're having a trial because even though the accused wanted to enter a guilty plea and receive LWOP, the Prosecution wouldn't accept it because they wanted to go for the DP. The DP is also the wish of Dr. Petit.

(Not to open up a whole theoretical discussion on this, but I've wondered lately if it's right to consider victims' families' attitudes toward the DP as a factor in going for it. There is another case in the news right now where a defendent was allowed to plead guilty and get LWOP because the victims' families didn't believe in the DP. Hmmm.)

The final decision is ultimately up to the prosecutor. He/she can take a lot of things into consideration to make that decision and victim family wishes is, I think, and appropriate thing to consider. But certainly not determinative. Certainly this crime is worthy of a death sentence. These men had both served prison time before, and it didnt seem to be a problem for them. Death is the only way to punish them.

tapu
09-22-2010, 12:35 PM
Hey browneyes!

Here's a link for the cross of Capt Vignola regarding the police response:

Excerpt: Vignola was excused from the stand and hurried from the courtroom without acknowledging Petit, sitting in the front row.

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-petit-day3-0916-20100915,0,2004656.story?page=2

Thank you so much for the link. Wow, it says the Capt. was agitated by the questioning. How does he think Dr. Petit feels? I still believe had the police approached this differently, these women would have been spared. I hope whatever protocol they followed has been trashed and rewritten. I mean, they didn't even call the house or ring the bell to check on the Petits? How sad.

The police capt. must feel grief, shame, and a lot of other terrible things. He would be very likely to blame himself. I can certainly understand his agitation, and his inability to look Petit in the face. :(

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 01:10 PM
I guess there was testimony so far today about the officer interviewing Hayes after his arrest and from the gas station attendant where Hayes bought gas. That was early morning, so clearly they intended to burn the family well before the trip to the bank. Seems Hayes' statement that things "got out of control" isn't supported. the fire seems to have been planned some time in advance.

JulieR
09-22-2010, 01:38 PM
Hayes said the plan then was for him to take the woman to the bank. Komisarjevsky would then take the rest of the family in a vehicle and burn down the house.

http://mobile.courant.com/wap/news/text.jsp?sid=298&nid=22613434&title=Latest%20News&nstart=1&cid=16767&scid=1872&from=&redir=&ith=0&storytitle=Detective:+Hayes+Gave+Account+of+Break-In,+Beating,+Rapes

William N
09-22-2010, 01:54 PM
There is one thing to take from this case and others like it. In a home invasion or carjacking, the criminals are almost certainly going to kill you no matter what they promise.

David In TN

jilly
09-22-2010, 02:02 PM
Interview with Mr Lively - dismissed juror

http://newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/petit_juror_i_didnt_quit/

Cher352
09-22-2010, 02:25 PM
Story up on this morning's testimonty by Det. Buglione:

Hayes: Co-defendant told me to rape mother
Published: Wednesday, September 22, 2010

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2010/09/22/news/doc4c996ef27c5f6869771968.txt

Cher352
09-22-2010, 02:27 PM
Another article:

Detective: Hayes Gave Account of Break-In, Beating, Rapes
1:17 p.m. EDT, September 22, 2010

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-hayes-day5-testimony-0923-20100922,0,2321586.story

Cher352
09-22-2010, 02:30 PM
High School Students Attend Hayes Trial Today
2:19 p.m. EDT, September 22, 2010

NEW HAVEN — In the courtroom today for the Hayes trial were nine high school students from a mock trial class from a nearby New Haven magnet school.

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-hayes-trial-students-attend-0922,0,6831409.story

jilly
09-22-2010, 02:40 PM
Detailed testimony from today:

Found on Hayes at the time of his arrest were a BB gun, $100, the key to the red pickup truck and a cell phone. She said there were voice mails on Hayes' cell phone, but nothing related to the case. Gabianelli said Hayes' phone was a pay-as-you-go phone and that police purchased minutes to turn the phone back on.

http://www.wfsb.com/news/25112231/detail.html

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 02:55 PM
Providing testimony about the photos on Josh's phone of Michaela. I can't imagine how painful this must be for Dr. Petit.

WellDone
09-22-2010, 02:59 PM
Story up on this morning's testimonty by Det. Buglione:

Hayes: Co-defendant told me to rape mother
Published: Wednesday, September 22, 2010

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2010/09/22/news/doc4c996ef27c5f6869771968.txt

BBM:

It sounds to me as if Hayes is trying to paint himself as non-violent & place the blame of violence solely on Komisarjevsky.

Please..... like this 44 year old repeat offender is going to take orders from his (almost 2 decade) junior repeat offender partner in crime.

He's trying to sound submissive of the two..... give me a break!!! He's a repeat offender himself... has been through the system numerous times... he knows the deal!

I only had "a little" sex with her cuz he told me I had to.... so we'd be even...... WTH??????

"But then Hayes allegedly told Buglione that Komisarjevsky said he had sex with Michaela while Hayes and Hawke-Petit were at the bank.

Hayes said Komisarjevsky told him to have sex with Hawke-Petit in order to “square things up,” Buglione testified.

Hayes allegedly said he did have sex with Hawke-Petit briefly".

So I'm betting that in Komisarjevsky's trial next year he'll be placing all the blame on Hayes.....

Why is Komisarjevsky's trial next year??????

These two just make me sick!!!!

ella971
09-22-2010, 03:25 PM
George Colli on twitter reporting no semen or saliva on M's body.

stillblv
09-22-2010, 03:27 PM
George Colli on twitter reporting no semen or saliva on M's body.

I found this strange. Is it because the body was burnt?

ella971
09-22-2010, 03:28 PM
I found this strange. Is it because the body was burnt?

Not sure.I just found this on google.GeorgeColli

ella971
09-22-2010, 03:30 PM
I put in my search Dr.Petit and found this George person who is in the courtroom.

Cher352
09-22-2010, 03:34 PM
I found this strange. Is it because the body was burnt?

Det this morning said that Hayes stated that JK made her shower which would probably clear any outside evidence.

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 03:37 PM
Det this morning said that Hayes stated that JK made her shower which would probably clear any outside evidence.

I was just going to say the same thing. We'll see if there was semen in her. Its sort of irrelevant though since Hayes had admitted he raped mother since JK had raped the girl.

Cher352
09-22-2010, 03:42 PM
Dr Petit, his father and father in-law left the courtroom prior to Dr Carver taking the stand. Petit's sister and Jennifer's sister are staying, so far.

Leila
09-22-2010, 03:44 PM
I remember this case when it happened.........the horrific murders of three innocent victims, and the lone survivor, Dr. William Petit. An article on the Fox News website sent me searching WS for a forum on this case.

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 03:50 PM
There seems to have been very little testimony about the photos on the camera phone, or maybe jsut the reporters didnt report/tweet much about them. I assume those photos were offered into evidence. Did anyone hear? This upcoming testimony about the autopsies is going to be horrific I know.

jjenny
09-22-2010, 03:54 PM
I found this strange. Is it because the body was burnt?

Probably because she was made to take a shower.

jjenny
09-22-2010, 03:55 PM
There seems to have been very little testimony about the photos on the camera phone, or maybe jsut the reporters didnt report/tweet much about them. I assume those photos were offered into evidence. Did anyone hear? This upcoming testimony about the autopsies is going to be horrific I know.

I'd guess those type of photos would only be shown to a jury.

jjenny
09-22-2010, 03:56 PM
Interview with Mr Lively - dismissed juror

http://newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/petit_juror_i_didnt_quit/

I am not sure as to what did he expect? A charismatic DA right from a Law and Order episode?

Cher352
09-22-2010, 04:02 PM
I remember this case when it happened.........the horrific murders of three innocent victims, and the lone survivor, Dr. William Petit. An article on the Fox News website sent me searching WS for a forum on this case.

Hi!

You can follow twitter from inside the courtroom on one of these news media accounts:

Follow on twitter:

http://twitter.com/NotesFromHeL

http://twitter.com/News8Now

http://twitter.com/nhregister

http://twitter.com/Record_Journal

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 04:11 PM
I am not sure as to what did he expect? A charismatic DA right from a Law and Order episode?

I think that is exactly what he was expecting. Instead of doing what he was told, just sit and listen to the testimony, he was already trying to deliberate and second guess attorney motives, etc. Often times, due to many factors, evidence must be introduced in a long drawn out manner, sometimes out of sequence with testimony, sometimes long chain of custody testimony must be brought forth. But the attorney will pull it all together eventually.

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 04:14 PM
As this testimony comes out, dont you wonder what is going through Hayes mind right now? Is it regret? Fear? Shame? Indifference?

WellDone
09-22-2010, 04:33 PM
Hayes is solely focused on self preserverence! Poor me, I got busted.... apparently he wasn't too concerned with the family & what he & JK had just done while running out of the house wearing Hayley's school hat & having possession of her school bookbag....

Saying they only wanted money.... the plan was to only tie up family & rob them.... well...considering that for the 2 families they robbed w/nite vision goggles w/i 24 hours of the Petit family killings..... they didn't tie up those families..... I guess Hayes thinks that sounds better than what they actually planned & did to these poor people.... It's bad enough that they so carelessly think it is "ok"... to violate others by robbing them while they are sleeping in their own home! How sick is that???? That's a violent threat in & of itself IMO..... then to rape a woman to be "even" with your partner raping the daughter... sick! sick! sick!

There is definitely no excuse for these two!

Caught in the act! Disgusting pigs just using up our oxygen!

Cher352
09-22-2010, 04:36 PM
Trial over for the day, will continue at 10AM a.m. tomorrow with Dr Carver returning to the stand to finish his findings on M.

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 04:51 PM
I agree WellDone, this crime was horrendous. For hayes to say it got out of control is just ridiculous. If he was so bothered by the violence, why didnt he leave after Dr. Petit was beaten so badly with the bat? No, Hayes was a full acting participant in this. He raped the mother because he wanted to. And he knew full well that the plan was to burn them. Of course, when it come to JK trial, we'll hear that he was just follwoing Hayes. disgusting.

WellDone
09-22-2010, 05:02 PM
Hayes blaming JK & JK will blame Hayes!

Hayes bought the gas for crying out loud!!!!

I don't even understand why our tax dollars are bothering with these 2??? It's not as if there is ANY REASONABLE DOUBT!!! My God! They crashed into police vehicles set up in road block for them after fleeing the victims home IN THE VICTIMS VEHICLE...

Where are the BoonDock Saints when you need them??? LOL

We definitely should have a different type of legal procedure when the SUSPECTS are LITERALLY caught in the act!!!

Geez!!! this case has me so pi$$ed it's unbelieveable!!!

Poor Hayes....ahhh... seizure like symptoms... um, wasn't it that he PEED HIS PANTS??? LMAO What a tough guy!!! Give him a depends & off to general population he goes..... let the prisoners deliver justice to Hayes & save our tax dollars!

These 2 don't deserve any free ride...... imo

jjenny
09-22-2010, 05:21 PM
I think that is exactly what he was expecting. Instead of doing what he was told, just sit and listen to the testimony, he was already trying to deliberate and second guess attorney motives, etc. Often times, due to many factors, evidence must be introduced in a long drawn out manner, sometimes out of sequence with testimony, sometimes long chain of custody testimony must be brought forth. But the attorney will pull it all together eventually.

So early in the trial, and he already complained he had a tough time following the presentation of the evidence? By the way one would think of all the cases there is no great mystery in this one, so what is there to understand? I am really glad the judge had him go, but at the same time concerned defense could use this as grounds for an appeal.

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 05:29 PM
JJenny, you got me. I think some people have just watched too many Law & Order episodes and think trials are quick, interesting, stories. In fact, those shows leave out the long tedious details required by the rules of evidence and rules of procedure. Whats frustrating is that this guy was a very educated man, and a journalist to boot. He should know better. But judging by his comments, I think maybe the prosecution is better off wtihout him. He sounds like the type of person that could take something as simple as this case and over-think it, and talk himself out of the death penalty.

jjenny
09-22-2010, 05:37 PM
JJenny, you got me. I think some people have just watched too many Law & Order episodes and think trials are quick, interesting, stories. In fact, those shows leave out the long tedious details required by the rules of evidence and rules of procedure. Whats frustrating is that this guy was a very educated man, and a journalist to boot. He should know better. But judging by his comments, I think maybe the prosecution is better off wtihout him. He sounds like the type of person that could take something as simple as this case and over-think it, and talk himself out of the death penalty.

I certainly agree that prosecution should be better off without him. I believe this is a really simple case. There is a surviving victim Dr. Petit, lots of evidence, and the suspects were caught by the police right after the alleged act. Some of the cases on trial have no witnesses, very little physical evidence, sometimes several people with a motive, etc. So if has a tough time following the presentation of the evidence in this case, I sure am glad he is off the jury.

JulieR
09-22-2010, 05:43 PM
Well bottom line is if Hayes just wanted the money. He could have just dropped Jennifer off at the house after getting the money and took off. He would have had it all to himself. Makes you wonder why creeps like these are loyal to each other until their caught.

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 05:45 PM
All the elements of 1st degree murcher are here and easily proven, plus evidence of other felonies commited, ie rape, larceny, arson. Plus there are plenty of aggravating factors necesary to impose the death penelty (multiple victims, especially torturous, done to destroy evidence, crime against a child. I'm sure the defense will come up wtih some mitigating factors, but doesnt appear to be anything out of the ordinary. You really dont see many cases of this magnitude that have such overwhelming evidence.

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 06:00 PM
Well bottom line is if Hayes just wanted the money. He could have just dropped Jennifer off at the house after getting the money and took off. He would have had it all to himself. Makes you wonder why creeps like these are loyal to each other until their caught.

OH yes, they could have had the money. The wife complied iwth their demands completely. They could have had their money, Hayes oculd have called after leavng the bank and said he had the money, he could have dropped off the mother somewhere and picked up JK and they would have been long gone before hte police were notified and got to the house. But they chose a different path. They chose to rape the women, knowing that would mean they would have to kill them. Just disgusting.

William N
09-22-2010, 06:05 PM
As I posted previously, home invasions and carjacking leads to murder. If they send you to the bank to withdraw money, DO NOT count on their promises and go back if you can keep from it.

The police in this town do not seem to move very fast, but it would have been best for Jennifer to wait until the cops reached the bank. They could have arrested Hayes in the car while he waited for the money. The house could have been surrounded and the cops would have known the situation from what Jennifer would have told them.

Remember, these suspects broke in knowing that people were in the house.

David In TN

jilly
09-22-2010, 06:05 PM
JJenny, you got me. I think some people have just watched too many Law & Order episodes and think trials are quick, interesting, stories. In fact, those shows leave out the long tedious details required by the rules of evidence and rules of procedure. Whats frustrating is that this guy was a very educated man, and a journalist to boot. He should know better. But judging by his comments, I think maybe the prosecution is better off wtihout him. He sounds like the type of person that could take something as simple as this case and over-think it, and talk himself out of the death penalty.

Agreed. He hadn't even made up his mind about the DP. He was the first juror picked and I believe I read somewhere else that he was picked by the Defense. Pros probably breathed a sigh of relief when he was booted.

William N
09-22-2010, 06:09 PM
As this testimony comes out, dont you wonder what is going through Hayes mind right now? Is it regret? Fear? Shame? Indifference?

Indifference. He counts on beating the death penalty.

David In TN

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 06:14 PM
As I posted previously, home invasions and carjacking leads to murder. If they send you to the bank to withdraw money, DO NOT count on their promises and go back if you can keep from it.

The police in this town do not seem to move very fast, but it would have been best for Jennifer to wait until the cops reached the bank. They could have arrested Hayes in the car while he waited for the money. The house could have been surrounded and the cops would have known the situation from what Jennifer would have told them.

Remember, these suspects broke in knowing that people were in the house.

David In TN

I agree on that. Home invasions soo often result in murder. But if one, just one, can get free and get to hlep, the likelihood of it turning to murder decreases since the defendants know their first priority at that point must be to just run.

Cher352
09-22-2010, 06:19 PM
There seems to have been very little testimony about the photos on the camera phone, or maybe jsut the reporters didnt report/tweet much about them. I assume those photos were offered into evidence. Did anyone hear? This upcoming testimony about the autopsies is going to be horrific I know.

Reading back over the tweets. Yes, they brought in the photos of on JK's cell phone. Say there were 4 of M. Pics were enhanced and matched bedding and linens in crime scene photos.

Record Journal reporter: "Dr. Petits leg starts shaking and appears agitated".

From the Courant reporter: "Examiner given photos from Komisarjevsky's phone. Photos of him and Michaela"

News8Now:"Brunetti enhanced photos of Joshua komisarjevsky and Michaela Petit."

God JK is sick!!!

This poor family to have to live with all this knowledge of the crime! Sometimes I wonder which is worse knowing or not knowing.

PrairieWind
09-22-2010, 06:25 PM
Cher, i did see later that they photos were discussed, but waasnt sure if they had been admitted to evidence. Apparantly t hey had been since the jury was looking at them. I would have expected the defense to put up more of a fight on those photos to try to keep them out at all costs.

Cher352
09-22-2010, 06:35 PM
Tweets also mentioned that Harry Smith of the CBS Early Show was there for the afternoon session so there may be some reporting on tomorrow's show.

Cher352
09-22-2010, 06:37 PM
Cher, i did see later that they photos were discussed, but waasnt sure if they had been admitted to evidence. Apparantly t hey had been since the jury was looking at them. I would have expected the defense to put up more of a fight on those photos to try to keep them out at all costs.

Don't you know it!!

This poor jury, the photos from this trial will haunt them always I fear.

citygirl
09-22-2010, 07:09 PM
Hayes is solely focused on self preserverence! Poor me, I got busted.... apparently he wasn't too concerned with the family & what he & JK had just done while running out of the house wearing Hayley's school hat & having possession of her school bookbag....

Saying they only wanted money.... the plan was to only tie up family & rob them.... well...considering that for the 2 families they robbed w/nite vision goggles w/i 24 hours of the Petit family killings..... they didn't tie up those families..... I guess Hayes thinks that sounds better than what they actually planned & did to these poor people.... It's bad enough that they so carelessly think it is "ok"... to violate others by robbing them while they are sleeping in their own home! How sick is that???? That's a violent threat in & of itself IMO..... then to rape a woman to be "even" with your partner raping the daughter... sick! sick! sick!

There is definitely no excuse for these two!

Caught in the act! Disgusting pigs just using up our oxygen!

Yep. Worse than something stuck to the bottom of your shoe. The lowest of the low. Pure evil. IMO.

I don't want to listen to this testimony, yet I feel I owe it to the living and deceased members in this family.

I'm not sure I could be a juror and be forced to look at the gruesome photos . God bless them.

Leila
09-22-2010, 08:36 PM
Hi!

You can follow twitter from inside the courtroom on one of these news media accounts:

Follow on twitter:

http://twitter.com/NotesFromHeL

http://twitter.com/News8Now

http://twitter.com/nhregister

http://twitter.com/Record_Journal

Thanks Cher! I'll be following along. :)

jjenny
09-23-2010, 12:36 AM
OH yes, they could have had the money. The wife complied iwth their demands completely. They could have had their money, Hayes oculd have called after leavng the bank and said he had the money, he could have dropped off the mother somewhere and picked up JK and they would have been long gone before hte police were notified and got to the house. But they chose a different path. They chose to rape the women, knowing that would mean they would have to kill them. Just disgusting.

She actually gave them more money that they asked for- 15,000$ instead of 10,000$. I presume in hopes to make them happy so they won't harm the family.

Native New Yorker
09-23-2010, 01:15 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/23/nyregion/23cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss


"The confession the detective described, made at the Cheshire police station, was matter-of-fact. But in many of its details, Mr. Hayes, who had a long criminal record, described Mr. Komisarjevsky, an experienced burglar, as the instigator. The two had met at a halfway house for parolees.
The lawyer for Mr. Komisarjevsky, Jeremiah Donovan, often sits just behind Mr. Hayes’s lawyers and watches the court proceedings. Mr. Komisarjevsky, like Mr. Hayes, faces capital charges. His trial is to begin next year.
During a break in the proceedings on Wednesday, Mr. Donovan was asked about Mr. Hayes’s statements, which seemed to blame Mr. Komisarjevsky for much of the crime. He declined to discuss any of the details.
But, he said, “The confession that Joshua gave, in great detail, made Hayes the more guilty party.”


no surprises there....

jjenny
09-23-2010, 01:36 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/23/nyregion/23cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss


"The confession the detective described, made at the Cheshire police station, was matter-of-fact. But in many of its details, Mr. Hayes, who had a long criminal record, described Mr. Komisarjevsky, an experienced burglar, as the instigator. The two had met at a halfway house for parolees.
The lawyer for Mr. Komisarjevsky, Jeremiah Donovan, often sits just behind Mr. Hayes’s lawyers and watches the court proceedings. Mr. Komisarjevsky, like Mr. Hayes, faces capital charges. His trial is to begin next year.
During a break in the proceedings on Wednesday, Mr. Donovan was asked about Mr. Hayes’s statements, which seemed to blame Mr. Komisarjevsky for much of the crime. He declined to discuss any of the details.
But, he said, “The confession that Joshua gave, in great detail, made Hayes the more guilty party.”


no surprises there....
I am certainly taking this "confession" with a grain of salt. He says they went into the house after hours of drinking? I guess he thinks if he was as drunk as a skunk, that would be mitigating circumstances? What it is they were drinking? Coffee? Only caffeine found in blood.

shefner
09-23-2010, 07:21 AM
These perps knew they were going to kill this family from the moment JK swung the bat. They knew that if the family saw them, they would have to kill them. This is cold, premeditation......and the death penalty will be coming. Unfortunately, it will be years before justice is truly served. How sad that taxpayers money must be wasted on endless appeals.
My heart goes out to Dr. Petit and the other family members....

Lola
09-23-2010, 08:50 AM
It's hard enough just watching the videos from reporters and hearing their reports, I cannot imagine how hard this is for jurors...much less the family. If there ever was a DP case, this is it....and I consider myself anti.

scrabble
09-23-2010, 09:11 AM
Horrendous.

Cher352
09-23-2010, 10:04 AM
Looks like trial about to continue.

Follow on twitter:

http://twitter.com/NotesFromHeL

http://twitter.com/News8Now

http://twitter.com/nhregister

http://twitter.com/Record_Journal

Bump for Thursday.

Cher352
09-23-2010, 10:07 AM
This trial always starting at 10 a.m., is this normal?
I though most started at 9 a.m.
Then they ususlly end around 3 p.m.
Wish they would put in an hour or more a day and speed this up!

Cher352
09-23-2010, 10:16 AM
Finally starts at 10:15....sheesh!

JulieR
09-23-2010, 10:20 AM
Are any of the links working yet?

Cher352
09-23-2010, 10:24 AM
Are any of the links working yet?

Twitters are up and working.


Dr. Carver testifying about autopsy done by other doctor.

Dr. Petit gets up and leaves court as Dr. Carver starts testimony, same as he did yesterday. Don't blame him at all, poor soul!

Cher352
09-23-2010, 10:30 AM
OMG!!

Carver: Hayley must have been on fire when walked into hall

PrairieWind
09-23-2010, 10:51 AM
Is there anything more cruel than setting a living human being (or any other animal for that matter) on fire?

Cher352
09-23-2010, 10:53 AM
You can also view Helen Ubinas tweets from inside the courthouse on the Hartford Courant's website:

http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/

ella971
09-23-2010, 11:03 AM
I thought they already said no fluids on M? I'm confused and much worse.

PrairieWind
09-23-2010, 11:06 AM
I thought they already said no fluids on M? I'm confused and much worse.

I believe previous testimony was there was no semen ON her. But appears swap showed there was semen INSIDE her. I think we all suspected that

Cher352
09-23-2010, 11:07 AM
Is there anything more cruel than setting a living human being (or any other animal for that matter) on fire?

Yes, so horrid isn't it! Yesterday the doctor testified how painful smoke inhalation, which both girls had, was.

Death seems too good for them but I don't want them living either.

Latest:
Dr Carter testimony over after saying Tests confirmed that Michaela had been sodomized.

Dr Petit's sister shaking and crying as Carver leaves

gxm
09-23-2010, 11:08 AM
Cher, i did see later that they photos were discussed, but waasnt sure if they had been admitted to evidence. Apparantly t hey had been since the jury was looking at them. I would have expected the defense to put up more of a fight on those photos to try to keep them out at all costs.

IIRC, the cell phone photos are of the youngest daughter and JK. Correct? If so, it's possible the defense is trying to show that JK is the sicko who escalated the crime. (IMO, they are both sickos who brought out the worst in each other.)

ella971
09-23-2010, 11:09 AM
I think I may faint. BRB

gxm
09-23-2010, 11:18 AM
You can also view Helen Ubinas tweets from inside the courthouse on the Hartford Courant's website:

http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/

Thanks for the link! This is the only Twitter link that doesn't ask me to sign up for anything.

Cher352
09-23-2010, 11:19 AM
More testimonty on the cell phone:

Farnham examined Joshua komisarjevsky cell phone, which had sexual images of11y/o Michaeala Petit.

Also showing cell text messages between the 2 perps. A total of eight text messages between Hayes and Komisarjevsky from the evening of 7/22/07 were shown, all before the home invasion started.

Cher352
09-23-2010, 11:23 AM
Thanks for the link! This is the only Twitter link that doesn't ask me to sign up for anything.

Glad it works for you!

I did sign up for Twitter a while back but rarely use it. In this case though it works good. I logged in the other day and set it to follow the 4 new agencies I listed above and when I go to my home page there I can see all the tweets on one screen as they happen.

ella971
09-23-2010, 11:27 AM
They are taking a break before jury looks at the 8 photos.

gxm
09-23-2010, 11:27 AM
Glad it works for you!

I did sign up for Twitter a while back but rarely use it. In this case though it works good. I logged in the other day and set it to follow the 4 new agencies I listed above and when I go to my home page there I can see all the tweets on one screen as they happen.

Maybe I'll have to sign up.

PrairieWind
09-23-2010, 11:45 AM
Has there been any indication that family of Hayes have attended any of the trial? I suppose they would not. He had teenaged children doesnt he? And JK is married with daughter 9 or 10yo?

Cher352
09-23-2010, 11:48 AM
Has there been any indication that family of Hayes have attended any of the trial? I suppose they would not. He had teenaged children doesnt he? And JK is married with daughter 9 or 10yo?

I haven't heard or seen anything on Hayes family but I know I couldn't support any family member doing this, I would have changed name and moved to another state or better yet another country.

JulieR
09-23-2010, 11:49 AM
Has there been any indication that family of Hayes have attended any of the trial? I suppose they would not. He had teenaged children doesnt he? And JK is married with daughter 9 or 10yo?


I am pretty sure if I was related to Hayes, I wouldn't go.

ella971
09-23-2010, 11:49 AM
Dr.P is in the courtroom jury is coming back in to see photos.

PrairieWind
09-23-2010, 11:55 AM
I am pretty sure if I was related to Hayes, I wouldn't go.

Can't imagine being the children of these animals and the pain and shame they will have to live with the rest of their lives. Look at the lives these men have destroyed; their own families as well.

MCDRAW
09-23-2010, 12:01 PM
Monsters

stillblv
09-23-2010, 12:02 PM
No words.

JulieR
09-23-2010, 12:03 PM
Can't imagine being the children of these animals and the pain and shame they will have to live with the rest of their lives. Look at the lives these men have destroyed; their own families as well.

OMG can you imagine being his mother. I would feel I had to say something to the family if that where the case, like I am sorry for ever giving birth to him.

PrairieWind
09-23-2010, 12:04 PM
I dont know how the Petit family is able to sit there through this and not jump over the rail after Hayes.

Native New Yorker
09-23-2010, 12:17 PM
When I first began following this case, three years ago, and heard about the pictures, I imagined the worst....and I was right....

this case really does remind me of the Clutter murders ( In Cold Blood) with the two sociopathic animals egging each other on...
fast forward to the 21 st century, giving the monsters high tech methods to make their depravity even more heinous...

And NO, JK is not married, nor has he ever been, to my knowledge...

but when this case first broke, his "girlfriend" posted on several message boards ( Topix, IIRC) DEFENDING him. Imagine.

ella971
09-23-2010, 12:20 PM
This case is confirms my feelings of it being okay as a single Mom to not only have a gun in my home but also having a great shot.

Cher352
09-23-2010, 12:21 PM
From what I got there were 6 photos.

2 of JK privates between 9 & 10 pm on 7/22
3 of Michaela between 7:27 and 8:09 am 7/23
1 of Hayley 9:14 am 7/23

This is right?

Next focus is the calls from cell phone:
10 calls all calls made and received during time near one cell tower within range of Petit Home.

PrairieWind
09-23-2010, 12:22 PM
Ok, native, guess i misunderstood. I just assumed. So, when he texted that he was putting his girl to bed that night, was he leaving her with the gf/mother? It doesnt matter I guess. I wouldnt really blame the gf for defending him at first. It would be natural to assume or make yourself believe that your significant other wasnt capable of those things. I just hope we dont see the defense try to put his daughter on the witness stand during the penalty phase.

ella971
09-23-2010, 12:26 PM
Ok, native, guess i misunderstood. I just assumed. So, when he texted that he was putting his girl to bed that night, was he leaving her with the gf/mother? It doesnt matter I guess. I wouldnt really blame the gf for defending him at first. It would be natural to assume or make yourself believe that your significant other wasnt capable of those things. I just hope we dont see the defense try to put his daughter on the witness stand during the penalty phase.

That would be very sad for his daughter.I hope that does not happen. I have faith that it will be cut and dry. He will get the D.P.

hollyjokers
09-23-2010, 12:26 PM
The Hawk-Petit families have to sit through this TWICE?!? What a travesty.

Cher352
09-23-2010, 12:30 PM
The Hawk-Petit families have to sit through this TWICE?!? What a travesty.

Would this be the first time the family sees any of the evidence photos or would the State prepared them?

ella971
09-23-2010, 12:33 PM
Would this be the first time the family sees any of the evidence photos or would the State prepared them?

I think the person means they have to sit and watch the other guys trial.

JulieR
09-23-2010, 12:36 PM
Would this be the first time the family sees any of the evidence photos or would the State prepared them?

I would think the state prepared them.

PrairieWind
09-23-2010, 12:39 PM
Would this be the first time the family sees any of the evidence photos or would the State prepared them?

I'm sure they were provided the opportunity to see those photos before hand. Most states have procedures for keeping victim/families informed and often includes those sort of things. Plus it would be in the prosecutions interest to show them before hand so that trial isnt the first time. If a family member totally lost it seeing those photos in court, could cause a mistrial.

Native New Yorker
09-23-2010, 12:43 PM
I am sure that the state TRIED to prepare the family for those horrific photos, but really, how does one really steel oneself for that type of thing?

As for JK "putting his daughter to bed"
in a normal household, that might mean reading a story, bath, etc.
but you can ask any child services worker, and they will tell you that it often means handing the child a bottle, or if it is older, just telling it to get in the bed, no bath, no story.

Also, no telling what he might have gone on to do with his own daughter, as she got older...or he might have even already abused her, and I hope that children services looked into that possibility....

Cher352
09-23-2010, 12:54 PM
Article up on this morning's session:

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-hayes-autopsy-testimony-0924-20100923,0,5495905.story

PrairieWind
09-23-2010, 01:02 PM
Anyone remember what time Hayes and Petit returend from teh bank, and what time the suspects fled the home? Couldnt find that anywhere

Leila
09-23-2010, 01:18 PM
These perps knew they were going to kill this family from the moment JK swung the bat. They knew that if the family saw them, they would have to kill them. This is cold, premeditation......and the death penalty will be coming. Unfortunately, it will be years before justice is truly served. How sad that taxpayers money must be wasted on endless appeals.
My heart goes out to Dr. Petit and the other family members....

Our justice system is the best in the world, but often the wheels of justice turn slowly. I'm sure this trial will end with a conviction and the death penalty, but it will take many years before that penalty is carried out. It's unfortunate, but the criminals get many appeals, whereas the victims never had a chance at an appeal.

Leila
09-23-2010, 01:25 PM
Can't imagine being the children of these animals and the pain and shame they will have to live with the rest of their lives. Look at the lives these men have destroyed; their own families as well.

IIRC, Hayes was living with his mother at the time he committed this horrific crime. I wonder if she's attended the trial? What a horrible thing for a parent to have to live with.

William N
09-23-2010, 01:40 PM
The Hawk-Petit families have to sit through this TWICE?!? What a travesty.

Yes. As I have written, the judge severed the trials most likely to avoid an appellate issue. In the Christian-Newsom torture-murder case in Knoxville, TN (which I covered for Trials & Tribulations), there were FIVE trials, counting one in federal court.

Aside from removing a basis for appeal, it gives each suspect the opportunity to blame the others.

David In TN

Cher352
09-23-2010, 02:03 PM
Anyone remember what time Hayes and Petit returned from the bank, and what time the suspects fled the home? Couldn't find that anywhere

Can't find the official timeline right off hand.

This much I know:
From the bank video Mrs Petit left there just after 9:23 a.m.

The rest is just close to what I remember from earlier reports.
Someone said it was like a 8-10 min ride back to the house.
Officers at the scene around 9:30, Petit car already back from bank, they then blocked roads and set up perimeter.
Officers called the fire dept right around 10 a.m. which was after the suspects had left the home.
Officers said they didn't notice the smoke until after the perps had left the house and crashed the car.

I am sure there is a more accurate timeline. If anyone finds it, please post, Thanks!

Cher352
09-23-2010, 02:20 PM
Anyone remember what time Hayes and Petit returned from the bank, and what time the suspects fled the home? Couldnt find that anywhere

Can't find the official timeline right off hand.

This much I know:
From the bank video Mrs Petit left there just after 9:23 a.m.

The rest is just close to what I remember from earlier reports.
Someone said it was like a 8-10 min ride back to the house.
Officers at the scene around 9:30, Petit car already back from bank, they then blocked roads and set up perimeter.
Officers called the fire dept right around 10 a.m. which was after the suspects had left the home.
Officers said they didn't notice the smoke until after the perps had left the house and crashed the car.

I am sure there is a more accurate timeline. If anyone finds it, please post, Thanks!

OK found the official LE log. 6 pages covering from 9:21 a.m. to 10:03 a.m.

http://media2.wtnh.com/_local/documents/timeline.pdf

According to it the suspects fled the residence at 9:57 a.m.

hockeymom
09-23-2010, 02:29 PM
Our justice system is the best in the world, but often the wheels of justice turn slowly. I'm sure this trial will end with a conviction and the death penalty, but it will take many years before that penalty is carried out. It's unfortunate, but the criminals get many appeals, whereas the victims never had a chance at an appeal.

This is a case where I think the perps need something far worse than the death penalty. Too bad they didn't live in Muslim country.

shefner
09-23-2010, 02:33 PM
So M was sexually assaulted before Hayes took Mrs. Petit to the bank. This entire thing makes me physically ill....

browneyes
09-23-2010, 02:39 PM
I agree with this. My son is in LE, so I rarely place any blame on them unless really warranted. I feel the police really dropped the ball in this case. If they would have just rung the door bell, announced themselves and interrupted the plans, maybe there would have been a different outcome. They could have gone in through the basement. I don't know what to think. They know 2 men are holding a family hostage and just set up outside the house? Whoever was in charge of making those decisions must feel horrible now and rightly so. I wish they would have been more aggressive in their response. I can't help but feel it would have saved those women's lives. Hopefully, they have revised the way they would respond to something like this in the future. It's all so very sad.

One more question I have had about this case. Did the Petit's have an alarm system?


Sorry to quote myself, but:

I just got off the phone with my son and he explained why the police did what was proper protocol in this case. I hope I can explain it as well as he did.


1: All the uniform officers knew was that there was a hostage situation and Mrs. Petit had explained to the bank teller/manager that if she gave the men the money they wanted, the family would be fine. She looked incredibly calm on the video tape.

2: The first thing officers do in a hostage situation is set up a perimeter around the situation. It keeps the kidnappers from escaping even if they do not harm the hostages.

3: A SWAT team was probably being set up/called in. They would have made the contact with these scumbags. They are more equipped....with weapons and body armour than a police officer off the street.

4: The police officers had no idea at all what was going on inside the home. For all they knew, Mrs. Petit was handing off the money and they were just tying up the victims with plans to leave.....especially since Mrs. Petit seemed assured at the bank that they would leave her family alone if they got the money.

5: If one or more of the police officers off the street had tried to enter the home, one of the hostages/and or police officers could have been killed. The police had no idea what kind of weapons these kidnappers had. If they were indeed going to keep their word and let them go when they received the money, it would have been tragic for the hostages and/or police to get killed rushing into the situation. My son said it is a TOUGH call to make. They have to go with the information they have at hand....in the moment.

6: A hostage situation is very difficult to handle and without seeing or hearing evidence that the Petit women were in danger, officers are to wait for the SWAT team and negotiator to arrive. If Mrs. Petit had told the bank teller/manager that the kidnappers were going to kill them when she returned from the bank, that would have been a different situation.

7: My son reminded me that we know what was going on in the home, we know what the police could have stopped, we know what kind of weapons they had and we know their intentions. However, the police only had what Mrs. Petit said at the bank to go on. He said, of course it looks like the police should have rushed into the home with guns blazing, like they do on television or in the movies, but that's just not the way it's done in real life. He realizes the decisions they make may cause or prevent the death of a citizen or fellow police officer, so those decisions are not made lightly.

It is still hard for me to wrap my head around, but I do understand things better after talking to my son. He is a Sergeant in his department and when he finishes his Masters, hopes to work for the FBI. He was also on the SWAT team at the last department he worked for.

It is all so sad, but as he said...hindsight is 20/20. I hope this helps a little.

browneyes
09-23-2010, 02:41 PM
It's hard enough just watching the videos from reporters and hearing their reports, I cannot imagine how hard this is for jurors...much less the family. If there ever was a DP case, this is it....and I consider myself anti.


I am not anti-death penalty and would love to serve on a jury. However, this is one case I don't think I could take. I am afraid the images would stay in my head forever. The jurors have my utmost respect for their courage to endure this trial.

JulieR
09-23-2010, 02:47 PM
I would love to know what is going through Hayes mind as the jury looks at them photos.

browneyes
09-23-2010, 02:51 PM
I would love to know what is going through Hayes mind as the jury looks at them photos.


Sadly, probably something like...well, they deserved it!! :furious: :banghead:

Do you have to have a twitter account to follow the twitters? I don't know anything about "twittering"???????? :blushing:

JulieR
09-23-2010, 02:54 PM
http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/

ella971
09-23-2010, 03:01 PM
Why? So many people forever are going to be damaged by this. So hard to take.

JulieR
09-23-2010, 03:06 PM
Sadly, probably something like...well, they deserved it!! :furious: :banghead:

Do you have to have a twitter account to follow the twitters? I don't know anything about "twittering"???????? :blushing:

http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/

try just clicking the link.

robinparten
09-23-2010, 03:47 PM
Sorry to quote myself, but:

I just got off the phone with my son and he explained why the police did what was proper protocol in this case. I hope I can explain it as well as he did.


1: All the uniform officers knew was that there was a hostage situation and Mrs. Petit had explained to the bank teller/manager that if she gave the men the money they wanted, the family would be fine. She looked incredibly calm on the video tape.

2: The first thing officers do in a hostage situation is set up a perimeter around the situation. It keeps the kidnappers from escaping even if they do not harm the hostages.

3: A SWAT team was probably being set up/called in. They would have made the contact with these scumbags. They are more equipped....with weapons and body armour than a police officer off the street.

4: The police officers had no idea at all what was going on inside the home. For all they knew, Mrs. Petit was handing off the money and they were just tying up the victims with plans to leave.....especially since Mrs. Petit seemed assured at the bank that they would leave her family alone if they got the money.

5: If one or more of the police officers off the street had tried to enter the home, one of the hostages/and or police officers could have been killed. The police had no idea what kind of weapons these kidnappers had. If they were indeed going to keep their word and let them go when they received the money, it would have been tragic for the hostages and/or police to get killed rushing into the situation. My son said it is a TOUGH call to make. They have to go with the information they have at hand....in the moment.

6: A hostage situation is very difficult to handle and without seeing or hearing evidence that the Petit women were in danger, officers are to wait for the SWAT team and negotiator to arrive. If Mrs. Petit had told the bank teller/manager that the kidnappers were going to kill them when she returned from the bank, that would have been a different situation.

7: My son reminded me that we know what was going on in the home, we know what the police could have stopped, we know what kind of weapons they had and we know their intentions. However, the police only had what Mrs. Petit said at the bank to go on. He said, of course it looks like the police should have rushed into the home with guns blazing, like they do on television or in the movies, but that's just not the way it's done in real life. He realizes the decisions they make may cause or prevent the death of a citizen or fellow police officer, so those decisions are not made lightly.

It is still hard for me to wrap my head around, but I do understand things better after talking to my son. He is a Sergeant in his department and when he finishes his Masters, hopes to work for the FBI. He was also on the SWAT team at the last department he worked for.

It is all so sad, but as he said...hindsight is 20/20. I hope this helps a little.

Thanks for the explanation, but I still don't understand why they didn't try to stop the car at the bank, or on the way home. They had ample reason to pull the car over, based on what the bank teller was told.

PrairieWind
09-23-2010, 03:57 PM
Robin, I dont think there would have been time for that. By teh time the teller called the police, Petit and Hayes were leaving. It was only about a 10 minute drive to the house, and even with a good descriptoin of the car, the chance of the police getting a patrol to actually intercept it that fast is remote.

kk's mom
09-23-2010, 04:04 PM
Why? So many people forever are going to be damaged by this. So hard to take.
So hard to take Ella. I find I can't catch my breath at times when reading the details. It's completely over-whelming. My thought and prayers go out to Dr. Petit, and the family and friends of these three precious angels. It literally breaks my heart...one of the worst cases I have ever read about....

PrairieWind
09-23-2010, 04:14 PM
It sounds like the jury was truely horrified and enraged by the photos of Jennifer Petit. I can't even imagine what those photos must be like. I couldnt tell from the tweets though if the most graphic photos were visible to the gallery, or just to the jury/court.

jilly
09-23-2010, 04:21 PM
Thanks for the explanation, but I still don't understand why they didn't try to stop the car at the bank, or on the way home. They had ample reason to pull the car over, based on what the bank teller was told.

Agreed. I think their procedure needs to be revised. It clearly didn't work in this case. Three women dead from the time they left the bank.

hollyjokers
09-23-2010, 04:24 PM
I think the majority of the autopsy photos were shown only to the jury (one tweet I read said Judge Blue did not even look at them before handing them to jury) The exception was a picture of Jennifer's larynx, which was put on the big screen to the surprise & shock of family & media.

Leila
09-23-2010, 05:00 PM
Sorry to quote myself, but:

I just got off the phone with my son and he explained why the police did what was proper protocol in this case. I hope I can explain it as well as he did.


1: All the uniform officers knew was that there was a hostage situation and Mrs. Petit had explained to the bank teller/manager that if she gave the men the money they wanted, the family would be fine. She looked incredibly calm on the video tape.

2: The first thing officers do in a hostage situation is set up a perimeter around the situation. It keeps the kidnappers from escaping even if they do not harm the hostages.

3: A SWAT team was probably being set up/called in. They would have made the contact with these scumbags. They are more equipped....with weapons and body armour than a police officer off the street.

4: The police officers had no idea at all what was going on inside the home. For all they knew, Mrs. Petit was handing off the money and they were just tying up the victims with plans to leave.....especially since Mrs. Petit seemed assured at the bank that they would leave her family alone if they got the money.

5: If one or more of the police officers off the street had tried to enter the home, one of the hostages/and or police officers could have been killed. The police had no idea what kind of weapons these kidnappers had. If they were indeed going to keep their word and let them go when they received the money, it would have been tragic for the hostages and/or police to get killed rushing into the situation. My son said it is a TOUGH call to make. They have to go with the information they have at hand....in the moment.

6: A hostage situation is very difficult to handle and without seeing or hearing evidence that the Petit women were in danger, officers are to wait for the SWAT team and negotiator to arrive. If Mrs. Petit had told the bank teller/manager that the kidnappers were going to kill them when she returned from the bank, that would have been a different situation.

7: My son reminded me that we know what was going on in the home, we know what the police could have stopped, we know what kind of weapons they had and we know their intentions. However, the police only had what Mrs. Petit said at the bank to go on. He said, of course it looks like the police should have rushed into the home with guns blazing, like they do on television or in the movies, but that's just not the way it's done in real life. He realizes the decisions they make may cause or prevent the death of a citizen or fellow police officer, so those decisions are not made lightly.

It is still hard for me to wrap my head around, but I do understand things better after talking to my son. He is a Sergeant in his department and when he finishes his Masters, hopes to work for the FBI. He was also on the SWAT team at the last department he worked for.

It is all so sad, but as he said...hindsight is 20/20. I hope this helps a little.

I agree with your son that it's a very tough call to make as LE didn't know what was going on inside the house.

We all know what happened, and in hindsight the one thing that may have changed the outcome would have been if there had been a delay at the bank in getting the money together, with the delay giving time for LE to get to the house and other LE might have been able to rescue Jennifer Petit on her return trip home.

gxm
09-23-2010, 05:42 PM
To me, it always sounded like LE thought they had a hostage situation, not a rape and murder spree. I don't think they realized the enormity of the horror until too late. It's tragic and I feel for the officers who may struggle with guilt that they did not do enough.

This is one of the worst cases I've followed. Just horrific what those two monsters put their victims through. I used to think that SH was more a follower than a leader but after today's testimony I think he is just as depraved as JK.

And thank you, again, to everyone who is posting twitter links. The twitter-challenged (that would be me) really appreciate it.

jjenny
09-23-2010, 07:59 PM
Of course police did not know the exact situation, but unfortunately in this case the decisions they made didn't help the outcome. Police were close to the house, but no one was saved, except for Dr. Petit, but he managed to save himself without the help of the police.
We know these two suspects weren't armed with guns. The BB gun they had didn't even work. So presumably if police did enter the house, even a single policeman armed with a gun could have potentially prevented the deaths.
Police officer was on the scene minutes after 911 call from the bank but was told not to enter. The perimeter was set but the two suspect had no idea of that.
Police did not attempt to contact the owners of the home to see what the deal was.
If the two suspects knew police were around maybe it would have ended differently.
I am not sure what the standard response to a hostage situation is, but if it tells police not to make contact for a quite some time then maybe it should be reconsidered.

joypath
09-23-2010, 08:01 PM
I think the majority of the autopsy photos were shown only to the jury (one tweet I read said Judge Blue did not even look at them before handing them to jury) The exception was a picture of Jennifer's larynx, which was put on the big screen to the surprise & shock of family & media.


Judge Blue had seen all photos at pre-trial discussions, the photo of shown was critical to explain the concept of strangulation and to indicate that NO SOOT was found. It was important to also indicate that releasing the pressure on her neck would have allowed her to survive.

jjenny
09-23-2010, 08:09 PM
Thanks for the explanation, but I still don't understand why they didn't try to stop the car at the bank, or on the way home. They had ample reason to pull the car over, based on what the bank teller was told.

She left during 911 call from the bank. I don't think they would have had time to stop the car at the bank.
I wonder if the bank had a security officer? Probably not since nothing was mentioned.

joypath
09-23-2010, 08:43 PM
She left during 911 call from the bank. I don't think they would have had time to stop the car at the bank.
I wonder if the bank had a security officer? Probably not since nothing was mentioned.



Not my area of speciality but....no security officer
Regarding stopping the car: the distance from the bank to the home---very close and remember, the situation was a hostage scene with anticipated timed return and a "hinky" captor at the house.

browneyes
09-23-2010, 10:25 PM
Of course police did not know the exact situation, but unfortunately in this case the decisions they made didn't help the outcome. Police were close to the house, but no one was saved, except for Dr. Petit, but he managed to save himself without the help of the police.
We know these two suspects weren't armed with guns. The BB gun they had didn't even work. So presumably if police did enter the house, even a single policeman armed with a gun could have potentially prevented the deaths.
Police officer was on the scene minutes after 911 call from the bank but was told not to enter. The perimeter was set but the two suspect had no idea of that.
Police did not attempt to contact the owners of the home to see what the deal was.
If the two suspects knew police were around maybe it would have ended differently.
I am not sure what the standard response to a hostage situation is, but if it tells police not to make contact for a quite some time then maybe it should be reconsidered.

Bolding mine:

But to be fair, how did the police know this?

JulieR
09-23-2010, 10:28 PM
http://media2.wtnh.com/_local/documents/statement.pdf

Hayes full statement to the police.

Native New Yorker
09-23-2010, 10:34 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/24/nyregion/24cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss


( referring to texts between SH/JK just before the murders.....

"I’m putting the kid to bed,” he wrote. At the time, he was in a legal fight over custody of his daughter, Jayda, 5. His text continued: “Hold your horses.”

jjenny
09-23-2010, 10:50 PM
Bolding mine:

But to be fair, how did the police know this?

I never claimed they knew this.

William N
09-23-2010, 10:51 PM
I would love to know what is going through Hayes mind as the jury looks at them photos.

He's trying to figure how best to present himself to the jury in the hope they will not give him the death penalty.

David In TN

jjenny
09-23-2010, 10:55 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/24/nyregion/24cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss


( referring to texts between SH/JK just before the murders.....

"I’m putting the kid to bed,” he wrote. At the time, he was in a legal fight over custody of his daughter, Jayda, 5. His text continued: “Hold your horses.”

This article states JK has been awarded a sole custody of his five year old a month prior. Boggles my mind. I'd like to know what exactly was the judge thinking.
"According to New Britain court records, Komisarjevsky has a 5-year-old daughter. Records show that Komisarjevsky was awarded sole custody of his daughter about a month before police said he and Hayes broke into the Petit home."
http://www.wfsb.com/news/13745324/detail.html

Native New Yorker
09-23-2010, 11:27 PM
Then I wonder why the New York Times is stating he was in a legal fight at the time of the murders? I think that the other article must have been mistaken, as he wanted sole custody.....

jjenny
09-24-2010, 01:27 AM
Then I wonder why the New York Times is stating he was in a legal fight at the time of the murders? I think that the other article must have been mistaken, as he wanted sole custody.....

It's not the only article that states he had full custody of his daughter. The following article gives more details.
"But despite Komisarjevsky’s criminal history — he was in prison for breaking into homes in Bristol and Cheshire while residents slept, using night-vision goggles — a judge gave him full custody of his child just nine weeks before the massacre. Komisarjevsky claimed that the mother had drug and alcohol problems."
http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2007/07/31/import/18645379.txt

Native New Yorker
09-24-2010, 06:26 AM
states modification of court order re: custody of JK's daughter.

I stand with the New York Times on this one, as they are pretty good about fact-checking....

sounds like custody was awarded for that time period, but the situation was in flux.....

jjenny
09-24-2010, 09:30 AM
states modification of court order re: custody of JK's daughter.

I stand with the New York Times on this one, as they are pretty good about fact-checking....

sounds like custody was awarded for that time period, but the situation was in flux.....
I don't see what makes NYT any more correct than the other articles.
He had been awarded full custody of a child weeks prior, which she was trying to modify. Despite his criminal history, he still was awarded full custody of his child.

Cher352
09-24-2010, 10:17 AM
Day 7 begins at 10:05 a.m.
Judge: ending early today as one witness can't be there.
Monday they will be off.
State likely to rest Tuesday
Closing agruments likely next Thurday or Friday

You can follow Helan Ubinas of the Hartford Courant tweets directly from the courtroom by going to this link:

http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/

PrairieWind
09-24-2010, 10:28 AM
I feel sorry for JK's little daughter. I sure hope she finds a decent home to grow up in.

Cher352
09-24-2010, 10:44 AM
nhregister reporter says sitting 5 feet behind Dr. Petit and can see scar in the part of his hair on back of scalp.

Guess that is from the attack in addtion to the gash on his forehead seen in the photo published soon after the attack.

jjenny
09-24-2010, 10:50 AM
I feel sorry for JK's little daughter. I sure hope she finds a decent home to grow up in.

I presume she is with her mother so unlikely to be looking for another home.

Cher352
09-24-2010, 11:11 AM
I presume she is with her mother so unlikely to be looking for another home.

I have to wonder about the mom if JK had custody over her with his criminal past.

fundiva
09-24-2010, 12:20 PM
Of course police did not know the exact situation, but unfortunately in this case the decisions they made didn't help the outcome. Police were close to the house, but no one was saved, except for Dr. Petit, but he managed to save himself without the help of the police.
We know these two suspects weren't armed with guns. The BB gun they had didn't even work. So presumably if police did enter the house, even a single policeman armed with a gun could have potentially prevented the deaths.
Police officer was on the scene minutes after 911 call from the bank but was told not to enter. The perimeter was set but the two suspect had no idea of that.
Police did not attempt to contact the owners of the home to see what the deal was.
If the two suspects knew police were around maybe it would have ended differently.
I am not sure what the standard response to a hostage situation is, but if it tells police not to make contact for a quite some time then maybe it should be reconsidered.
This is what I don't understand about the police. I read in the testimony that the police arrived at 9:30 a.m. They formed a perimeter and, I assume, watched the house. The fire was reported at 9:58. The suspects had already taken off. It was broad daylight. They had to have seen the suspects leave. Why weren't there officers at the back door ready to grab the suspects as they exited or why didn't they enter the house the second the suspects left to protect the family in case the suspects returned? They knew there was only two of them and they would have seen both of them leave. Mrs. Petit would have already been dead because he strangled her while the police were outside, but maybe they could have saved the daughters from smoke inhalation.

PrairieWind
09-24-2010, 01:20 PM
Ok, so JK's attorney apparently has given a press statement saying that JK doesnt deny that he raped Michaela, but that he didnt anally rape her. Didnt want the family to think he sodomized this girl. WTF! First, it doesnt matter one bit legally. Second, I can't imagine the family is in any way "relieved" by this news. Three, no one believes him, and Four, his lawyers will have to explain how the anal swab found semen in Michaela. Finally, from a legal standpoint i really question this tactic. They are supposed to be under a gag order from teh court and have ethical obligations to not say too much. It also will be difficult for them to later appeal on issues relating to tainted jury pools since they are the ones issuing these statements.

gxm
09-24-2010, 01:24 PM
PrairieWind, Yes. It's crazy. What is JK's lawyer trying to do? Taint the jury pool?

PrairieWind
09-24-2010, 01:29 PM
PrairieWind, Yes. It's crazy. What is JK's lawyer trying to do? Taint the jury pool?

Thats a good question. If the purpose really was to just tell the Petits that he didnt sodomize her, then a letter or call between attorneys would have been more appropriate. Is Blue going to be the judge for that case as well? If i was the judge I would be calling those attorneys in for an explanation.

joypath
09-24-2010, 01:41 PM
As pure luck would have it, I'm back in New Haven Court testifying on another case and have an opportunity to "slip into" the Hayes case as an observer today just before lunch. Then at the lunch break and KA BOOM....Joshua Komisarjevsky's :loser:attorney talks to media outside the court (yep, huge traffic jam {foot & car!}, media chaos, and lots of speculation regarding the "gag" order requirements!)! :banghead: AND HIS MESSAGE????? That he wants the Hawke-Petit families (and one would ASSUME the future jury pool) that good ole Joshua DID NOT ANALLY RAPE Michaela. :furious:


UMMMMMMMMMM I'm thinking that there's some highly relevant documents available that show PSA/AP activity on the submitted exemplars and some very interesting electrophoretic patterns of the fluids contained within those positive testing samples! And just as an after thought, the post mortem specimens are collected INTERNALLY, so......

joypath
09-24-2010, 02:21 PM
Thats a good question. If the purpose really was to just tell the Petits that he didnt sodomize her, then a letter or call between attorneys would have been more appropriate. Is Blue going to be the judge for that case as well? If i was the judge I would be calling those attorneys in for an explanation.



Judge Blue is expected to be the ruling Judge, he MAY call in the "outspoken defense team"....quote from a Marshall on site!


In retrospect, the information provided by Atty Donovan is 1. not testimony to the jury, 2. evidence regarding the current case, 3. completely clarified as to the effect to the impact upon THIS defendant.

If Atty Donovan wanted to argue the trauma vs seminal fluid deposit proposition to indicate sexual intercourse, then he should have waited for the JK trial and the opportunity to "chat" with Wayne on the stand! He'd get a GREAT conversation for his money!:dance:

Cher352
09-24-2010, 02:54 PM
Article on today's session:

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-hayes-day7-0925-20100924,0,3848858.story

(note video on the top of that page is from yesterday)

Cher352
09-24-2010, 03:00 PM
Komisarjevsky's lawyer denies assault
7th day of Hayes trial
Updated: Friday, 24 Sep 2010, 2:47 PM EDT
Published : Friday, 24 Sep 2010, 6:39 AM EDT

New Haven, Conn. (WTNH) - In a possible violation of the judge's gag order, the lawyer for Cheshire home invasion suspect Joshua Komisarjevsky spoke to reporters today, wanting to clear up misinformation regarding his client.

Rest of article and video of JK's lawyer speech at:

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/crime/steven-hayes-trial-day-seven

ella971
09-24-2010, 03:10 PM
I'm watching Helen Ubinas tweets from inside courtroom.

Lola
09-24-2010, 03:18 PM
PrairieWind, Yes. It's crazy. What is JK's lawyer trying to do? Taint the jury pool?

Yes...my guess is that as soon as this trial is finished -- we'll be hearing about the court's inability to give this slime a fair trial.

PrairieWind
09-24-2010, 03:43 PM
The more i think about this the more irritating it is. As an attorney, I really have to question the JK defense attorney's conduct. Even if its not a violation of the gag order, i really questions the ethics of the content, manner, timing, and location of the statement. It was clearly give for an ulterior purpose than informing the Petit family.

Cher352
09-24-2010, 04:22 PM
Court is running really late today with Fire Expert explaining burn patterns and path....so heart breaking!

PrairieWind
09-24-2010, 04:22 PM
Horrible testimony from fire investigator telling of how accelerant must have been poured on bodies. Of course the girls were alive and certainly conscious when the gasoline was poured on them. I can't even imagine the horror.

Cher352
09-24-2010, 04:29 PM
OMG testimony only gets worse, jury and family crying....JK or whoever poured the gas could not be human!!!

MCDRAW
09-24-2010, 04:39 PM
OMG testimony only gets worse, jury and family crying....JK or whoever poured the gas could not be human!!!


And JK's attorneys want people to know he didn't anally rape Michaela. I don't believe it. But apparently it's ok that he poured accelerant on her and Hayley and set them on fire. OMG these guys are animals. I know I shouldn't but I hope they get theirs in prison! But there is nothing that can be done to them that is as horrible as they did to this family!

gxm
09-24-2010, 04:41 PM
Unbelievable! They poured the gas on the two conscious girls. Who would do this to anyone, especially children! I think the state is presenting a very convincing case proving that these two defendants are monsters.