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joypath
10-04-2010, 04:42 PM
okay, THAT was tense! For a few minutes it was almost thought that the verdict was in BUT when Judge Blue took off....nope....the word was that it was a quandary question from the jury! Last word before dismissal: verdict not forthcoming ASAP, jury intends to deliberate with due diligence

joypath
10-04-2010, 04:49 PM
Normally I testify in my cases and get back to work BUT my luck and schedule has been working to my advantage to "get into" the back of the courtroom for the past few days. Hayes has been physically present but rather like an observer at a movie (from what I can observe), Dr. Petit has been stoic externally but showing the stress (DUH, ya think!) by bouncing his knees and gripping the bench. The mountain of evidence is amazing to actually SEE as it was cataloged and transported to the jury room!

Cher352
10-04-2010, 05:07 PM
On recess till tomorrow morning where deliberation will continue on 17 counts against.

PrairieWind
10-04-2010, 05:20 PM
Joy, the amount of evidence in this case is really amazing. I've never seen a case where the evidence was so lopsided. Of course, as the jury question demonstrates, there is still the question of which one of them did this and that. I hope the jury is able to see past that. Both will accuse the other of beating, and the assaults, and the tieing up, and the pouring gas, and setting the fire. But they all DID happen. So hopfully the jury will recognize this; see that there is enough evidence that Hayes lit the fire (he had time, opportunity, motive, and was the last one out of the house) and convict him of the arson. This just reminds me of the Channon Christian/Chris Newsom trials when all the defendants pointed the figer, no one would talk about Newsom's rape/murder, and so ultimately no one was really held responsible for what that young man went through.

jilly
10-04-2010, 05:35 PM
Joy, the amount of evidence in this case is really amazing. I've never seen a case where the evidence was so lopsided. Of course, as the jury question demonstrates, there is still the question of which one of them did this and that. I hope the jury is able to see past that. Both will accuse the other of beating, and the assaults, and the tieing up, and the pouring gas, and setting the fire. But they all DID happen. So hopfully the jury will recognize this; see that there is enough evidence that Hayes lit the fire (he had time, opportunity, motive, and was the last one out of the house) and convict him of the arson. This just reminds me of the Channon Christian/Chris Newsom trials when all the defendants pointed the figer, no one would talk about Newsom's rape/murder, and so ultimately no one was really held responsible for what that young man went through.

Not only that - Hayes bought the gas, Hayes spread the gas, Hayes raped Mrs Petit in the Family Room, fire started in the Family room. What's the problem. It's beyond a reasonable doubt (imo) that Hayes most likely lit the fire.

PrairieWind
10-04-2010, 05:43 PM
Agreed Jilly. I fail to see how one can pour gasaline around a house and not be convicted of arson whether he was the one that ignited it or not. What difference does it make who actually lit the match?

jilly
10-04-2010, 05:57 PM
Agreed Jilly. I fail to see how one can pour gasaline around a house and not be convicted of arson whether he was the one that ignited it or not. What difference does it make who actually lit the match?

Exactly!!

Just posting this for reference

Paul Makuc, a state police fire investigator, said an accelerant helped spread the fire snakelike in a "rapid, quick and violent manner," preventing emergency officials from entering the home and choking off oxygen on the second floor.

[B]Makuc said that the fire started in the family room in the southern section, near Hawke-Petit's body, which was severely burned. It spread to the rest of the house from that room.

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-steven-hayes-trial-day8-0928-20100928,0,3653758,full.story

PrairieWind
10-04-2010, 06:04 PM
yep, and Hayes was the one that raped/murdered Mrs Petit. So we know that in the moments before the fire, Hayes was in that room, while presumably JK was bouncing between the upstairs and downstairs. Therefore, it is reasonable to presume that Hayes was the one that lit the fire. I hope the jury understands that you dont have to be 100% certain. Just proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Hope they dont make this more complicated than it really is.

jilly
10-04-2010, 06:41 PM
yep, and Hayes was the one that raped/murdered Mrs Petit. So we know that in the moments before the fire, Hayes was in that room, while presumably JK was bouncing between the upstairs and downstairs. Therefore, it is reasonable to presume that Hayes was the one that lit the fire. I hope the jury understands that you dont have to be 100% certain. Just proof beyond a reasonable doubt. Hope they dont make this more complicated than it really is.

Me too! I'm just hoping they can all agree! Can you imagine a mistrial, though? and the Petit family having to go through it again?? They already have jk's trial coming up!!

Leila
10-04-2010, 10:01 PM
Me too! I'm just hoping they can all agree! Can you imagine a mistrial, though? and the Petit family having to go through it again?? They already have jk's trial coming up!!

It would be beyond cruel to put Dr. Petit and the family members through any more than what's necessary. As it is, they're having to go through two trials and listen to and see horrific evidence. If the defendants get the death penalty, it will likely be years before appeals are exhausted and they're executed.

JulieR
10-04-2010, 10:46 PM
SH will get the death penalty, for the rape and murder of Jennifer. He just may get a lesser for setting the fire, if they don't feel sure he set it. The state all ready had him behind bars for life, he wanted to pleaded guilty in exchange for his life. You can be pretty sure they are going to make sure he gets death, they spent millions to make sure of it.

4Kat
10-05-2010, 05:42 AM
Prayers for the family, may they find continued strength to endure.

Gozgals
10-05-2010, 08:00 AM
Death may not bring justice to these two men, or peace to William Petit, but there are shades of gray. These are my thoughts and opinions...

These men deserve to die. By that, I mean that their actions were so depraved, so gratuitous, so beyond any rationale that is ever used as mitigation for crimes, that they should not live any longer. Their existence is characterized by moral emptiness (equivalent to the idea of "evil," for me). There is no coming back from where they are in human society. These are not redeemable beings. (I don't believe in a defined god, so I may presume to judge.) Nothing these men could ever do would even begin to atone for these crimes. Why should they be allowed to do anything? They have done enough.

Beyond that, I think they should be put to death to give William Petit the slightest peace he might gain from having their existence on Earth wiped out. Don't let him lie in bed at night, thinking about how his family is gone, while these guys have even the occasional joy in prison, whether it be through extension courses, furniture building, dog raising, whatever. Don't let Petit have to read their names in the news when they or their lawyers do something "newsworthy." Ever seen the obscene video of Richard Stark (Chicago, killer of 9 student nurses)in prison, laughing and prancing, doing drugs and "holding court" with his "supplicant" co-prisoners? It's horrifying to think of anything remotely like that getting back to Petit. If I try to imagine myself in his position (however slightly that I can), I know that, with them dead, I would perhaps be able to hold my wife and children in my thoughts and tell them "Those men are dead."

Great Post Tapu. I agree 100%. These men do not have the right to walk the earth anymore. They gave that up. There is not any rehab. for them, they are pure evil.

I did see obscene video of Richard Stark and was shocked. No need for a repeat of this act.

I'm sure the conclusion will be the DP today.

My thoughts go out to the victims and Mr. Petit.

Goz

hollyjokers
10-05-2010, 09:43 AM
I haven't seen anywhere - is the jury being sequestered during deliberations?

hollyjokers
10-05-2010, 09:54 AM
After reading the Christian Newsom trial threads, I will say the public defenders in this trial at least were not too bad - other than the "he ONLY raped and murdered Mrs. Hawk-Petit" defense. I thought some of the lawyers in the CN case were absolutely atrocious. Judging by the anal-rape press conference, JK's attornies (that spelling looks wrong) will not be so polite.

Dr. Petit seemed so very tired in the clip on the news this morning. Mentally sending him a case of Red Bull to get through it all that yet lies ahead.

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 10:16 AM
After reading the Christian Newsom trial threads, I will say the public defenders in this trial at least were not too bad - other than the "he ONLY raped and murdered Mrs. Hawk-Petit" defense. I thought some of the lawyers in the CN case were absolutely atrocious. Judging by the anal-rape press conference, JK's attornies (that spelling looks wrong) will not be so polite.

Dr. Petit seemed so very tired in the clip on the news this morning. Mentally sending him a case of Red Bull to get through it all that yet lies ahead.

I agree Holly, these attorneys in this case were certainly doing their jobs, and doing them well i think, but they were not disrespectful as far as i could tell. The attonreys for some of the Channon Christian defendants were absolutely disgusting. And I also agree, that as evidenced by that bizarre press conferece, the JK trial could be a real circus that will be very difficult for the Petit family.

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 10:21 AM
I haven't seen anywhere - is the jury being sequestered during deliberations?

I dont know, I havent heard either.

gxm
10-05-2010, 10:46 AM
I'm very worried about that as well.Not looking and having eye contact is so not good.

Oh no. I hadn't realized that. I must have missed this detail. Where was it reported? (I'm not being contrary, just want to be able to read up on it.)

hollyjokers
10-05-2010, 10:59 AM
George Colli on twitter remarked during closings that one juror was not making eye contact with prosecutors.

gxm
10-05-2010, 10:59 AM
Jury wants to know if pouring gas is same as "starting a fire." Judge says no.

I don't really understand that. I think if you pour gas on people knowing that someone is about to strike a match, that is the same as "starting a fire." Geez.....

I completely agree. Pouring gas is part of the process of "starting a fire" especially one that will spread quickly. There is more than one aspect (lighting the match) regarding how this particular fire was set that points to the premeditated and cruel murder of the Petit children, and attempted murder of their father.

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 11:01 AM
Oh no. I hadn't realized that. I must have missed this detail. Where was it reported? (I'm not being contrary, just want to be able to read up on it.)

I dont remember where/when that tweet was, but I remember it too. There was one juror that would not look at the prosecution. Who knows what that means though.

LindseyLou
10-05-2010, 11:21 AM
I'm a first time visitor to this thread, since I've been hearing about it a lot in the news...I was wondering how often convicted murderers get the death penalty in Connecticut? (e.g., like how frequent it is used in Texas and Florida)

Do y'all think they will get the death penalty in this trial? From what I've been reading, this was an especially horrible crime and likely premeditated since one of them followed the girls home and then brought the other guy back later with supplies to carry out this horrendous crime.

Just curious. Thanks guys/girls!

hollyjokers
10-05-2010, 11:33 AM
I'm not an expert on CT law, but from what I have read, they are very slow to carry out the death penalty. I think the last man executed had been on death row 24 years. They came very close to abolishing capital punishment soon after these atrocious crimes were committed. So even if the defendents are sentenced to death, it will probably be repealed, and Hayes will likely die of natural causes before he ever has to pay the price for what he & his buddy inflicted on this family. JMO IMO et al.

Gozgals
10-05-2010, 11:52 AM
Interesting older video on the Death Penalty in this case and why they want it.

Conn has only executed 2 people since 1960. I hope we can take one out this round myself. It is so deserved.

Goz

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/cb-FBXIR54G8_MB3541wLfWiSLDsKzwbxf3/conn_prosecutors_want_death_penalty/

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:33 PM
Looks like verdict might be in.....its 12:33 pm

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:35 PM
Marshalls filling up courtroom.....sketch artist on her way in. Hayes being brought up.

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:36 PM
Confirmation that jury does indeed have a verdict in Hayes Trial....

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:41 PM
Count 1: Murder of Mother....GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:41 PM
Count 2: Murder of Oldest Daughter....GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:42 PM
Count 3: Murder of Youngest Daughter....GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:43 PM
Count 4: Capitol Felony Murder of all 3.....GUILTY

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 12:43 PM
AGHHH, i just got out oa meeting, verdict is in? Guilty so far?

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:43 PM
Count 5: Capitol Felony Murder of Youngest Daughter, under 16 years of age....GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:44 PM
Count 6: Kidnapping of Father....GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:46 PM
Count 7: Kidnapping of Mother.....GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:46 PM
Count 8: Kidnapping of Oldest Daughter....GUILTY

passionflower
10-05-2010, 12:47 PM
Thankyou for sharing!
I am so grateful these guys are behind bars and the family has justice for their loved ones.
Now DP!!!!!
I never want to see these guys out ever again!!!!
These guys do not deserve to breathe our air............JMOO

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:47 PM
Count 9: Kidnapping of Youngest Daughter...GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:48 PM
Count 10: Capital Felony Murder of Mother while kidnapped.....GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:49 PM
Count 11: Capital Felony Murder of Oldest Daughter while kidnapped.....GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:50 PM
Count 12: Capital Felony Murder of Youngest Daughter while kidnapped.....GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:51 PM
Count 13: Rape of Mother....GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:52 PM
Count 14: Capital Felony Murder of Mother during sexual assault....GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:53 PM
Count 15: Third Degree Burglary......GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:54 PM
Count 16: First Degree Arson......NOT GUILTY

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:55 PM
Count 17: Second Degree Assault of Father.....GUILTY

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 12:55 PM
So not guilty of the 1st degree arson, but all others guilty. Great job jury!! Probably good that they didnt vote guilty on arson. This takes away an issue for appeal, and it wasnt needed for the death penalty.

shefner
10-05-2010, 12:57 PM
GUILTY ON ALL COUNTS EXCEPT 1.....COUNT #16, FIRST DEGREE ARSON.

Family crying, hugging....Hayes sits looking ahead, no emotion.....A few jurors beginning to show emotion as they look at Petit family.

Jurors told they will sit for the penalty phase of the 6 Capital Felony Counts.....

shefner
10-05-2010, 01:00 PM
Jury excused until October 18, when they will return for penalty phase.....

jjenny
10-05-2010, 01:03 PM
GUILTY ON ALL COUNTS EXCEPT 1.....COUNT #16, FIRST DEGREE ARSON.

Family crying, hugging....Hayes sits looking ahead, no emotion.....A few jurors beginning to show emotion as they look at Petit family.

Jurors told they will sit for the penalty phase of the 6 Capital Felony Counts.....

I seriously think this law needs to be changed. If there are two people, and one spreads the gas, and the other strikes the match, then what does it matter which one was using a match?

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 01:04 PM
Jury excused until October 18, when they will return for penalty phase.....

Thanks for the updates. Too bad that the penalty phase couldn't begin immediately, just to get it over. But I suppose the family and jury and attorneys could use a bit of rest. The penalty phase will be VERY VERY emotional. Dr. Petit will certainly take the stand to talk about his lost family, as well as Jennifer's parents. I suppose someone will take the stand for Hayes (anyone know if any family of his has attended the trial?) He has children I believe, but I really hope they are not drug into this.

jjenny
10-05-2010, 01:05 PM
I completely agree. Pouring gas is part of the process of "starting a fire" especially one that will spread quickly. There is more than one aspect (lighting the match) regarding how this particular fire was set that points to the premeditated and cruel murder of the Petit children, and attempted murder of their father.

Exactly.

shefner
10-05-2010, 01:05 PM
i seriously think this law needs to be changed. If there are two people, and one spreads the gas, and the other strikes the match, then what does it matter which one was using a match?

100% totally agree

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 01:09 PM
I seriously think this law needs to be changed. If there are two people, and one spreads the gas, and the other strikes the match, then what does it matter which one was using a match?

I agree. Law needs to be updated. Otherwise 2 arsonists can do just what happened here and avoid conviction. Hopefully some young eager legislator will get on this immediately.

jjenny
10-05-2010, 01:12 PM
I agree. Law needs to be updated. Otherwise 2 arsonists can do just what happened here and avoid conviction. Hopefully some young eager legislator will get on this immediately.

Maybe Dr. Petit will get involved. Of course Hayes was found guilty of all these other charges, but if the charge was only arson, he could have walked even after being caught with gas on his clothing.

LindseyLou
10-05-2010, 01:14 PM
Jury excused until October 18, when they will return for penalty phase.....

wow. great job keep us up to date on that. thanks wasn't enough!

The Petit family will never have Jennifer, Hayley, or Mikaela back, but at least for this moment they have peace of mind knowing that the people guilty of taking their precious lives will be paying for it to some degree.

LindseyLou
10-05-2010, 01:24 PM
So what counts do you predict Joshua Komisarjevsky will be found guilty of? More or less? Can they both be found guilty the murder of one person?

hollyjokers
10-05-2010, 01:28 PM
I read (was it here?) that Dr. Petit gave up his right to make a victim's impact statement in order to be able to attend the trial everyday. Another disgusting way the criminals' rights supercedes the victims - having to negotiate what you can or can't do.

Garnan
10-05-2010, 01:30 PM
So what counts do you predict Joshua Komisarjevsky will be found guilty of? More or less? Can they both be found guilty the murder of one person?


The short answer is YES.

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 01:37 PM
I read (was it here?) that Dr. Petit gave up his right to make a victim's impact statement in order to be able to attend the trial everyday. Another disgusting way the criminals' rights supercedes the victims - having to negotiate what you can or can't do.

I can't imagine that is correct. I dont know what connecticut law says, but in my state, as a victim himself of the assault he is entitled to make a victim statement.

M.James
10-05-2010, 01:39 PM
I agree. Law needs to be updated. Otherwise 2 arsonists can do just what happened here and avoid conviction. Hopefully some young eager legislator will get on this immediately.

Or, if a person wants to get really technical, in accordance with that, then just one person could get away with arson by prepping a place to be burned.
I could dump gas and/or anything flammable to lead to anyplace I want gone, then wait until a sorry someone tosses a cigarette. Or maybe I could place a magnifying glass over the accelerant (to speed things up), and blame the sun.
Maybe not, but it might be worth thinking about.

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 01:41 PM
So what counts do you predict Joshua Komisarjevsky will be found guilty of? More or less? Can they both be found guilty the murder of one person?

Yes, more than one person can be found guilty of the murders, and undoubtably JK will be found guilty. could be some discrepance in the murder of the murder though. However, the prosecution could say that he "ordered" the murder. He may not be found guilty of the rape of Jennifer, though again, his statement to "square things up" could mean he is guilty in some way. But he will be found guilty of some sort of sexual assualt on the girls, where there was no evidence thereof for Hayes and he was not charged. The rest of the charges/verdicts will probably be the same. As for the arson, who knows. Seems crazy, but as central a role as the fire played in this tragedy, it is very possible no one will be convicted of starting it.

jjenny
10-05-2010, 01:51 PM
Yes, more than one person can be found guilty of the murders, and undoubtably JK will be found guilty. could be some discrepance in the murder of the murder though. However, the prosecution could say that he "ordered" the murder. He may not be found guilty of the rape of Jennifer, though again, his statement to "square things up" could mean he is guilty in some way. But he will be found guilty of some sort of sexual assualt on the girls, where there was no evidence thereof for Hayes and he was not charged. The rest of the charges/verdicts will probably be the same. As for the arson, who knows. Seems crazy, but as central a role as the fire played in this tragedy, it is very possible no one will be convicted of starting it.

It does seem crazy. Hayes and JK can point the fingers at each other with arson. Hayes already was found not guilty of arson.
When JK's turn comes, I think it's a safe bet JK's lawyer will just say Hayes was the one with the match.
Then both Hayes and JK will end up not guilty of arson even though two young girls were killed by smoke inhalation.

JSR
10-05-2010, 01:54 PM
I read (was it here?) that Dr. Petit gave up his right to make a victim's impact statement in order to be able to attend the trial everyday. Another disgusting way the criminals' rights supercedes the victims - having to negotiate what you can or can't do.

You are correct. And it's disgusting what Hayes attorney did to keep Petit from testifying and how they fought to keep Petit from even WITNESSING the trial. I don't know how his atty sleeps at night.

http://www.middletownpress.com/articles/2010/09/09/news/doc4c88512e02a00163529978.txt

jjenny
10-05-2010, 01:57 PM
You are correct. And it's disgusting what Hayes attorney did to keep Petit from testifying and how they fought to keep Petit from even WITNESSING the trial. I don't know how his atty sleeps at night.

http://www.middletownpress.com/articles/2010/09/09/news/doc4c88512e02a00163529978.txt

That article states Dr. Petit might be allowed to testify in the penalty part of the case if the judge allows victim impact statements.

hollyjokers
10-05-2010, 01:59 PM
I can't imagine that is correct. I dont know what connecticut law says, but in my state, as a victim himself of the assault he is entitled to make a victim statement.

OK, this should clear things up. Under the agreement, he will not be called to testify during the penalty phase, but if permitted by Judge Blue, may still make a VIS.

http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2010/09/08/news/metro/doc4c8827d290e7e521487730.txt

Under the agreement, Petit will not testify a second time during the guilt phase of the trial, in which jurors will decide whether Hayes is guilty or not guilty of murder and many other counts.

The agreement also specifies Petit probably will not testify during the penalty phase, which would occur if Hayes were found guilty. The second phase would call for jurors to decide whether he should face capital punishment.

But under the agreement, Petit might possibly testify in the penalty phase if Blue were to allow a victim impact statement. In such statements, victims discuss the impact the crime had on their lives and the lives of family members.

JSR
10-05-2010, 02:03 PM
That article states Dr. Petit might be allowed to testify in the penalty part of the case if the judge allows victim impact statements.

The reason they left that stipulation in the agreement is because appellate issues are due to any mistake a JUDGE makes in making a decision in a case. Blue may not allow a statement knowing that Hayes atty is setting it up for an appellate issue down the road. They would have less grounds for appeals if the State just called Petit to the stand but if Petiti makes a statement that the JUDGE allows that allows a little more wiggle room for an appeal.

I have a feeling Petit will be robbed of getting to make a statement.

Leila
10-05-2010, 02:10 PM
I just now saw the verdict! I'm relieved that they found Hayes guilty on 16 of the 17 counts. Now we know why the jurors asked about the start of the fire.

hollyjokers
10-05-2010, 02:37 PM
Truth be told, any statement Dr. Petit makes to either of these pieces of crap would fall on death ears anyhow. They have no feelings or remorse for what they did so hearing Dr. Petit tell them what they took from him is a waste of his time. He probably made the right choice, and if it is one more guarantee that the verdicts can not be overturned on appeal, play on. JMO, IMHO, etc.

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 02:57 PM
You are correct. And it's disgusting what Hayes attorney did to keep Petit from testifying and how they fought to keep Petit from even WITNESSING the trial. I don't know how his atty sleeps at night.

http://www.middletownpress.com/articles/2010/09/09/news/doc4c88512e02a00163529978.txt

Wow, I am shocked. I had not seen that before. That is appalling!

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 03:14 PM
I have a feeling Petit will be robbed of getting to make a statement.[/QUOTE]

I agree. In light of this, I seriously doubt the Judge will allow an impact statement from Petit. I think this is really a result of the fact that Connecticut has had virtually no expereince in the last decades with capital cases, so the procedure is not very well adapted for penalty phase issues. Hopefully, the jury will not need his testimony to reach a death verdict. And I think Dr. Petit is smart enough to not press it and endanger the conviction/penalty.

Cher352
10-05-2010, 03:28 PM
Count 16: First Degree Arson......NOT GUILTY

I think this is flat out wrong!!!

The jury found him guilty of the murder of H and M who died as a result of the fire so doesn't make sense why to find him NOT guilty of arson.

Here in FL if someone dies during the commission of a felony all persons involved in the the crime can be charged with murder. I think arson should be the same way there. Hayes bought the gas and had gas on his clothing...He should be guilty of arson whether or not he lit the match.

But MOO I think both lit the fire for it to catch that fast and to make sure all areas burned especially since Hayes was the last one out.

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 04:29 PM
I agree Cher, its ridiculous, but the CT statute on first degree arson says a person is guilty of first degree arson if he........starts a fire, or causes an explosion...." Now, I would agree that laying down the accelerant is part of "starting" a fire, but apparently in connecticut there is case law to the contrary, that you have to actually ignite it for it to be arson. I have a hunch that the jury just didnt want to get too caught up in semantics, realized they had more than enough on the other charges, and just said not guilty on that count. I think the jury went rather quickly through those counts to be honest. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in there.

WellDone
10-05-2010, 04:40 PM
BBM:

Truth be told, any statement Dr. Petit makes to either of these pieces of crap would fall on death ears anyhow. They have no feelings or remorse for what they did so hearing Dr. Petit tell them what they took from him is a waste of his time. He probably made the right choice, and if it is one more guarantee that the verdicts can not be overturned on appeal, play on. JMO, IMHO, etc.

I'm sure you are 110% right about this..... anything is wasted breath on these two...however, I think it's probably part of a healing aspect for victims... IMO... maybe, maybe not..... just saying

I know we had a crime committed against one in our family - nothing so horrendous as this, but a crime that devestated us all the same & I felt sooo much better up on the stand giving my what for to the perp..... all the while his attorney tried to twist things & put words in my mouth.... another form of victimization in my opinion!!! By me having MY say on cross.... was wonderful.... I felt like I was able to clear the air of all the BS his attorney tried to throw in there as fact, which was just a bunch of lies!

Whether in all actuality Dr. Petit wants to or feels he needs to speak again..... I don't know.... I just know I did & that it was healing in a way.

All just my opinion......

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 05:21 PM
Well Done, very sorry to hear about your experience. I can't imagine how such victims feel since I have been fortunate enough to have been the victim of only some minor things. I suppose each person feels different as to what they want, and I guess the opportunity to tell the perp face to face what they have done to you would be .... not sure the word, liberating maybe. In a way I could also see where a person may not want to say anything at all. Dr. Petit may simply not have anything to say to Hayes (and in light of Hayes belief that Petit was involved in the crime, the doctor may not want to provide an opportunity for the defense to further those allegations). Plus, the story of Jennifer, and Haley and Michaela can be told by the grandparents. And really, it is THIER story that has to be told.

shefner
10-05-2010, 05:54 PM
After hearing Dr. Petit make a statement today, I didn't get the impression that he would garner any satisfaction from making a victim impact statement in the courtroom. I think he would not want to do anything that might allow Hayes to contest the outcome of the penalty phase.

I think it is unquestionable....Hayes will get the death penalty.

PrairieWind
10-05-2010, 06:13 PM
After hearing Dr. Petit make a statement today, I didn't get the impression that he would garner any satisfaction from making a victim impact statement in the courtroom. I think he would not want to do anything that might allow Hayes to contest the outcome of the penalty phase.

I think it is unquestionable....Hayes will get the death penalty.

I think you're probably correct on both counts. Dr. Petit seems pretty focused on what he wants; death sentences for both, and if not making a victim statement helps that cause, so be it. I think based on the speed of the jury's verdict and the fact it was 16 of the 17 charges, the jury may very well vote for death. You never really know, but i would wager that it will be a death sentence.

jilly
10-05-2010, 07:08 PM
I think this is flat out wrong!!!

The jury found him guilty of the murder of H and M who died as a result of the fire so doesn't make sense why to find him NOT guilty of arson.

Here in FL if someone dies during the commission of a felony all persons involved in the the crime can be charged with murder. I think arson should be the same way there. Hayes bought the gas and had gas on his clothing...He should be guilty of arson whether or not he lit the match.

But MOO I think both lit the fire for it to catch that fast and to make sure all areas burned especially since Hayes was the last one out.

ITA with you Cher!
When the prosecutor asked the jury to use their common sense, I said good! and then when he added - the last guy out starts the fire I said huh?

Like you say (he buys the gas, has gas on his clothing) plus the fire started where he raped and murdered Jennifer Petit!! Wouldn't common sense apply here in that it would be beyond a reasonable doubt that he set the fire?

WellDone
10-05-2010, 07:54 PM
As horrendous as it all was, I doubt Dr. Petit would want to relive it once again... sadly he has to do that thru both trials.... & everyday/everynight of life..... sad, sad..... For Dr. Petit's sake I hope these two fry..... it doesn't bring back his family, but hopefully he will know they will never be free again to further traumatize him or other families!!! Either way... Ultimately, I just hope Dr. Petit & family are able to find peace......

Well Done, very sorry to hear about your experience. I can't imagine how such victims feel since I have been fortunate enough to have been the victim of only some minor things. I suppose each person feels different as to what they want, and I guess the opportunity to tell the perp face to face what they have done to you would be .... not sure the word, liberating maybe. In a way I could also see where a person may not want to say anything at all. Dr. Petit may simply not have anything to say to Hayes (and in light of Hayes belief that Petit was involved in the crime, the doctor may not want to provide an opportunity for the defense to further those allegations). Plus, the story of Jennifer, and Haley and Michaela can be told by the grandparents. And really, it is THIER story that has to be told.

lonetraveler
10-05-2010, 08:07 PM
I think this is flat out wrong!!!

The jury found him guilty of the murder of H and M who died as a result of the fire so doesn't make sense why to find him NOT guilty of arson.

Here in FL if someone dies during the commission of a felony all persons involved in the the crime can be charged with murder. I think arson should be the same way there. Hayes bought the gas and had gas on his clothing...He should be guilty of arson whether or not he lit the match.

But MOO I think both lit the fire for it to catch that fast and to make sure all areas burned especially since Hayes was the last one out.

I totally agree with you. The jury finding this creep not guilty of arson is like slapping the family in the face. IMO, if this jury came to this conclusion, then the death sentence might not be possible.:banghead::banghead::banghead:

WellDone
10-05-2010, 08:28 PM
BBM:

Seriously that happens! My son put a projection tv on their porch last month for their friend to pick up that they'd given it to...... it caught fire from the sun & nearly burnt the house down - fast!

Or, if a person wants to get really technical, in accordance with that, then just one person could get away with arson by prepping a place to be burned.
I could dump gas and/or anything flammable to lead to anyplace I want gone, then wait until a sorry someone tosses a cigarette. Or maybe I could place a magnifying glass over the accelerant (to speed things up), and blame the sun.
Maybe not, but it might be worth thinking about.

jjenny
10-05-2010, 09:20 PM
Well Done, very sorry to hear about your experience. I can't imagine how such victims feel since I have been fortunate enough to have been the victim of only some minor things. I suppose each person feels different as to what they want, and I guess the opportunity to tell the perp face to face what they have done to you would be .... not sure the word, liberating maybe. In a way I could also see where a person may not want to say anything at all. Dr. Petit may simply not have anything to say to Hayes (and in light of Hayes belief that Petit was involved in the crime, the doctor may not want to provide an opportunity for the defense to further those allegations). Plus, the story of Jennifer, and Haley and Michaela can be told by the grandparents. And really, it is THIER story that has to be told.

But the victim's impact statement is to describe the impact of this crime on the victim, and Dr. Petit was affected most of all, he lost his whole family.

shefner
10-05-2010, 09:46 PM
But the victim's impact statement is to describe the impact of this crime on the victim, and Dr. Petit was affected most of all, he lost his whole family.

These criminals are animals. They do not care about Dr. Petit or his family. Dr. Petit knows this. The best impact for both of these perps is death.

My sincerest prayers and heartfelt sympathies for Dr. Petit and other family members. Dr. Petit's courage and strength are living tributes to his wife and girls.

joypath
10-05-2010, 09:49 PM
And my "luck" today, spending it at the ME's office & at a death scene and missed the verdict! BUT a State Trooper from court detail indicated that the family was satisfied, the one not guilty was not an issue, actually a "oh well, shows that the jury was REALLY thinking and won't give him a chance to claim that they acted on emotions".

After reading all the previous comments (GREAT & thought provoking!), I'd just like to add that Dr. Petit has stated that his strength has come from trying to carry on the great projects that his family was involved in and to keep their memories alive by building on the issues that united them. This is one committed family to the cause of justice for the memories of these three women, they have held strong for the DP as the level of demanded punishment, not the LWOP that BOTH monsters were willing to plea a few years ago.

jjenny
10-05-2010, 09:58 PM
These criminals are animals. They do not care about Dr. Petit or his family. Dr. Petit knows this. The best impact for both of these perps is death.

My sincerest prayers and heartfelt sympathies for Dr. Petit and other family members. Dr. Petit's courage and strength are living tributes to his wife and girls.

I am not concerned how Hayes is going to feel about victim's impact statement. But shouldn't jury get to hear how this crime affected the surviving victim? After all if only one person votes against the death penalty Hayes will not get the death penalty, as far as I understand it.

mmmagique
10-05-2010, 10:47 PM
They HAVE to have the death penalty. I read true crime, watch true crime shows, and keep up on true crime web sites. I have empathy for all crime victims but am able to keep enough distance (generally) in order to analyze what has happened and sometimes even why. (not always)

I totally lost it tonight while watching NG and learning that at least one of those girls was doused with gasoline and set on fire while still alive. My husband has threatened not to allow me to watch tv any more and right now...I don't care.

Anyone who could do such a thing and/or stand by while it happens, is not human, and does not deserve to live on this earth as imperfect as it is.

Sorry if this was off topic.

shefner
10-05-2010, 10:50 PM
I am not concerned how Hayes is going to feel about victim's impact statement. But shouldn't jury get to hear how this crime affected the surviving victim? After all if only one person votes against the death penalty Hayes will not get the death penalty, as far as I understand it.

Yes, I know exactly what you mean. However, if any one of those jurors votes against the death penalty after all they have heard in this case...and after all they have witnessed, both in court and in photos, then no victim impact statement will change his vote.

I am thinking of those of us who have posted here. Some of us are generally in favor of the death penalty while others are generally opposed. Even so, most everyone here feels this case is a textbook case FOR the death penalty. I imagine the jury will feel the same.

joypath
10-05-2010, 11:20 PM
They HAVE to have the death penalty. I read true crime, watch true crime shows, and keep up on true crime web sites. I have empathy for all crime victims but am able to keep enough distance (generally) in order to analyze what has happened and sometimes even why. (not always)

I totally lost it tonight while watching NG and learning that at least one of those girls was doused with gasoline and set on fire while still alive. My husband has threatened not to allow me to watch tv any more and right now...I don't care.

Anyone who could do such a thing and/or stand by while it happens, is not human, and does not deserve to live on this earth as imperfect as it is.
Sorry if this was off topic.


Not to make YOU feel worse but...BOTH girls were alive when doused with the gas and both girls' COD was due to CO poisoning from smoke inhalation. Massive amounts of soot was present in the nasal cavity & trachea and confirmed in microscopy of lung tissue (I'm combining both post reports here as the actual level of physical damage was different in each victim). The small mercy of loss of consciousness BEFORE the conflagration began was NOT offered to this youngsters, these #$%$%^ creatures didn't even knock them out! :furious:

mmmagique
10-05-2010, 11:47 PM
Not to make YOU feel worse but...BOTH girls were alive when doused with the gas and both girls' COD was due to CO poisoning from smoke inhalation. Massive amounts of soot was present in the nasal cavity & trachea and confirmed in microscopy of lung tissue (I'm combining both post reports here as the actual level of physical damage was different in each victim). The small mercy of loss of consciousness BEFORE the conflagration began was NOT offered to this youngsters, these #$%$%^ creatures didn't even knock them out! :furious:

Yes, I was assuming that. That's why it hit me so hard. WHO in the hell can do such things? I have children that age. They are so precious. But then again, so is my 95 year old grandma who raised me.

I finally...after thinking about it, figured out the why...they wanted NO physical evidence (semen) left behind. So if the house burnt, and the family was in it, even though obviously murdered, there would be (in their thoughts) no physical evidence to tie them to the crimes.

Somehow, figuring out why, calmed me a bit. I still feel like crying for that family, though. I can't imagine knowing my children had gone through that. I just can't imagine it.

If this has taught me anything, it's never to believe criminals' promises. I will not be led like a lamb to the slaughter. If anyone wants my family, they will have to do it in front of my neighbors, God and everybody. What a senseless tragedy. What a waste.

PrairieWind
10-06-2010, 01:30 AM
Yes, I was assuming that. That's why it hit me so hard. WHO in the hell can do such things? I have children that age. They are so precious. But then again, so is my 95 year old grandma who raised me.

I finally...after thinking about it, figured out the why...they wanted NO physical evidence (semen) left behind. So if the house burnt, and the family was in it, even though obviously murdered, there would be (in their thoughts) no physical evidence to tie them to the crimes.

Somehow, figuring out why, calmed me a bit. I still feel like crying for that family, though. I can't imagine knowing my children had gone through that. I just can't imagine it.

If this has taught me anything, it's never to believe criminals' promises. I will not be led like a lamb to the slaughter. If anyone wants my family, they will have to do it in front of my neighbors, God and everybody. What a senseless tragedy. What a waste.

I think we all feel that way. How anyone could set living beings on fire, let alone kids, is just beyond all comprehension. And I agree with what you have "learned" from this case. We actually had quite a discussion about that issue earlier on this thread, but I agree with you; fight as soon as possible and as hard as possible.

Gozgals
10-06-2010, 03:14 AM
My thoughts and respect are with Mr. Petit and his family now. So much for him to endure and what a brave man. I'm sure the jury will impose the DP in such a henious case. I don't think an impact statement would really change their minds. All has been said.

Always fight for your life! This is such a horrid crime and these people are just pure evil.

Bless you Mr. Petit

Goz

sweetmop
10-06-2010, 09:40 PM
This article shows us what the defense will probably come up with in trying to save Hayes from the DP.
Sickening, huh?


http://www.wqow.com/Global/story.asp?S=13279832

WellDone
10-06-2010, 10:29 PM
BBM:

Very interesting & sickening! I wonder how he sleeps at night..... or the other perps mother for that matter...

"He's really great," said Georgianna Mills, whose son Jonathan was convicted of those killings in Guilford. "He did everything he had to do to get Jon off. I think he convinced the jury it was all because of the drugs."

Even worse, this guy didn't just kill 3 strangers.... it was his aunt & her 2 daughters... yet his mother is just so thrilled with Ullman... weird people! And prior to sentencing he was living with his uncle.... nice.(*sarcastic*)... son or not... I think I'd be worried to close my eyes at night.....

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/01/07/nyregion/murders-touch-a-town-s-soul.html?ref=connecticut



http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/national/usstatesterritoriesandpossessions/connecticut/index.html?query=MILLS,%20JONATHAN&field=per&match=exact

Does anyone know of Komisarjevsky's attorney???

This article shows us what the defense will probably come up with in trying to save Hayes from the DP.
Sickening, huh?


http://www.wqow.com/Global/story.asp?S=13279832

jjenny
10-07-2010, 12:07 AM
This article shows us what the defense will probably come up with in trying to save Hayes from the DP.
Sickening, huh?


http://www.wqow.com/Global/story.asp?S=13279832

Might be hard considering the only drug in Hayes system was caffeine.

Gozgals
10-07-2010, 02:04 AM
This article shows us what the defense will probably come up with in trying to save Hayes from the DP.
Sickening, huh?


http://www.wqow.com/Global/story.asp?S=13279832

Nice but they will also remember that the pig Hayes and another ex-con broke into the Petit's house and beat Mr. Petit with a baseball bat and forced Mrs. Petit to withdraw money from their bank. Hayes then sexually assaulted her and strangled her to death. Hayes tied both daughters to their beds after putting pillowcases over their heads and poured gasoline on them. He set the house on fire. 11 year old Michaela was sexually assaulted and both girls died of smoke inhalation.

I think this will weigh heavy upon the jury and nothing could be said that will outweigh the facts in the case. It is just such a brutal crime. His lawyers can say he had a rough childhood, is a drug addict, etc but it seems ineffective in this situation. (IMO).

I highly doubt this pig's sob story will get him off with life in prison with no parole. I'm still going with the DP with this jury. I think with a crime so heinous, the jury won't be forgiving and will not feel much sympathy.

Sadly, the DP probably will be overturned in the future or take years to be enforced.

Goz

ilovekitties
10-07-2010, 08:32 AM
I was hoping someone could help me with this forensics question. Jennifer Hawke-Petit was said to be raped and strangled. How would they know this for sure if the body was burned beyond recognition? Are they just assuming that because of what Hayes and Joshua K. confessed? They also said Michaela was sexually assaulted....I don't think her body was burned as bad, so maybe they could have gotten DNA and other evidence from her. So is it possible to assess sexual assault from a burned body?

William N
10-07-2010, 11:29 AM
This article shows us what the defense will probably come up with in trying to save Hayes from the DP.
Sickening, huh?


http://www.wqow.com/Global/story.asp?S=13279832

The defense attorneys for the first suspect tried in the Christian-Newsom murders used a similar strategy. They claimed that Letalvis Cobbins had a bad home life with a druggie mother. The jury (brought from Nashville) agreed and gave him "life without parole" instead of death. The jury foreman intoned "mitigation" when announcing the sentence.

This (http://sprocket-trials.blogspot.com/2009/08/christian-newsom-torture-murder-case.html) is the first article I wrote on the case for Trials & Tribulations with an account of Cobbins' trial. You can decide whether he deserved "mitigation."

Will Hayes receive it?

David In TN

joypath
10-07-2010, 05:48 PM
I was hoping someone could help me with this forensics question. Jennifer Hawke-Petit was said to be raped and strangled. How would they know this for sure if the body was burned beyond recognition? Are they just assuming that because of what Hayes and Joshua K. confessed? They also said Michaela was sexually assaulted....I don't think her body was burned as bad, so maybe they could have gotten DNA and other evidence from her. So is it possible to assess sexual assault from a burned body?

Without discussing specific details of this case that were NOT presented in court, I can answer some of your questions.

The identification of strangulation can be made by the damage to the hyoid bone when the neck disection is performed. As a "floating bone" it has some flexibility and will snap under direct, constant pressure; as testified in this case, JHP's was bilaterally fractured. BTW: when identification of a body is made from dental charts or DNA after death by fire it is NOT always because the corpse is burned beyond recognition but to provide scientific proof and often to spare the surviving relatives the horrific experience of observing charred remains. Frequently the seminal fluid deposits are protected by the body tissue, remaining clothing or discarded clothing and the condition of said items provide relevant clues. Fingernail clippings also provide details if there was an assault. Again, in this case is was specifically testified that foreign MALE DNA WAS recovered from Michaela's body.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES IS IT "ASSUMED" that any sexual assault occurred or for that matter ANY COD occurred no matter WHAT a perp claims even UNDER OATH! OUR findings are based on facts and theory backed up by proof, submitted in court by our testimony under oath.

:twocents:Hope this helps somewhat. :twocents:

JulieR
10-08-2010, 09:55 AM
msnbc.com Video Player

Story on Dateline tonight.

sweetmop
10-08-2010, 07:55 PM
Dr Petit won't give impact statement at hearing. The laws really should be changed

http://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news/local-beat/Petit-Wont-Offer-Statement-During-Hayes-Penalty-Phase-104603769.html

WellDone
10-08-2010, 08:42 PM
Never mind, it's on next.... oops!

Shoot did I miss this?????

It's 7:40 CST here & on my NBC-Dateline channel it's talking about a "Jennifer", but not JH-P... this Jennifer is the criminal...from what I understand so far.... ok they think a Jennifer was the murderer, but Shirley actually was charged

BBM:

msnbc.com Video Player (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/39571908#39571908)

Story on Dateline tonight.

Cher352
10-09-2010, 12:13 AM
Dateline story was good. One thing I saw mentioned at the end was that Dr Petit has not returned to practicing medicine. That along with his interviews outside the courthouse makes me wonder if there was any brain damage from the attack on him. His speech in those interviews outside the courthouse seem to use very simple words and there is almost appears to be a slight slur in his voice. Of course not having anything from before the attack to compare it with it is hard to judge.

Just wondering if anyone has ever heard whether or not Dr Petit had any permanent brain damage.

Cher352
10-09-2010, 12:14 AM
Never mind, it's on next.... oops!

Shoot did I miss this?????

It's 7:40 CST here & on my NBC-Dateline channel it's talking about a "Jennifer", but not JH-P... this Jennifer is the criminal...from what I understand so far.... ok they think a Jennifer was the murderer, but Shirley actually was charged

BBM:



Dateline was a 2 hr show. The 2nd half was the Petit Story.

jilly
10-09-2010, 11:02 PM
Dateline story was good. One thing I saw mentioned at the end was that Dr Petit has not returned to practicing medicine. That along with his interviews outside the courthouse makes me wonder if there was any brain damage from the attack on him. His speech in those interviews outside the courthouse seem to use very simple words and there is almost appears to be a slight slur in his voice. Of course not having anything from before the attack to compare it with it is hard to judge.

Just wondering if anyone has ever heard whether or not Dr Petit had any permanent brain damage.

I don't see how such a broken man would be able to return to work. I thought he spoke ok. You can tell he's just a shell of a man - empty. I don't know how he keeps on walking never mind talking. His house was bulldozed.

Jennifer's sister was interviewed and she said after that nite Dr Petit would just sit and stare off to space for hours.

He's been counselled by Jennifer's father, a minister. Right now I think he's trying to honour his "girls" through his Foundation.

jilly
10-09-2010, 11:04 PM
I thought Dateline was good too. I didn't realize that Jennifer had to go into the bank with no ID and showed them a picture of her girls who she was trying to protect and then they gave her the money.

WellDone
10-10-2010, 03:06 AM
I thought Dateline was good too. I didn't realize that Jennifer had to go into the bank with no ID and showed them a picture of her girls who she was trying to protect and then they gave her the money.

B&UBM

I hadn't realized that either - I was quite shocked & surprized that the bank co-operated as much as they did.

robinparten
10-11-2010, 07:55 AM
I thought Dateline was good too. I didn't realize that Jennifer had to go into the bank with no ID and showed them a picture of her girls who she was trying to protect and then they gave her the money.

Why wasn't she able to use her ID? You'd think the murderers would have wanted her to appear as normal as possible.

jilly
10-11-2010, 05:10 PM
Why wasn't she able to use her ID? You'd think the murderers would have wanted her to appear as normal as possible.

I don't know robin. That's a good question. We know jk and hayes ransacked their residence and collected money from wherever they could find it - ie purses, wallets. They wouldn't need their ID.

Plus, she had pics of her girls on her so you'd think part of her wallet was in tact.

:waitasec:

Gozgals
10-12-2010, 10:04 AM
I missed Dateline and hope they show the story again as I have been following it.

I'm a bit confused on some facts here, maybe someone can help me out.

She went to the bank, did not have her wallet, and showed pics of her girls?

Does anyone know why she did not have her wallet and wouldn't that draw much attention to the situation at hand? I may be missing something by not having a link or not seeing Dateline. This sounds off for many reasons. Why would pics of her girls help her to get monies at the bank?

I have been doing business with my bank for 15 years and showing pictures would not give me any money if I went to withdraw, but I do not have to show ID as they know me. If there is a new clerk, I am asked.

Can anyone shed any light on this part of the story for me please? Thanks

Goz

jilly
10-12-2010, 10:13 AM
I missed Dateline and hope they show the story again as I have been following it.

I'm a bit confused on some facts here, maybe someone can help me out.

She went to the bank, did not have her wallet, and showed pics of her girls?

Does anyone know why she did not have her wallet and wouldn't that draw much attention to the situation at hand? I may be missing something by not having a link or not seeing Dateline. This sounds off for many reasons. Why would pics of her girls help her to get monies at the bank?

I have been doing business with my bank for 15 years and showing pictures would not give me any money if I went to withdraw, but I do not have to show ID as they know me. If there is a new clerk, I am asked.

Goz

She might have had the pics of the girls in a separate part of her purse.

Apparently the teller called over the Manager to help out. Dateline is saying that she pulled out the pics of her girls and said something like - these are my daughters and I need this money for them or whatever. During that conversation she told the BMgr that her girls and husband were being held hostage. Maybe she had her bank books? Anyways, according the the BMgr's 911 call, she said Jennifer looked "desperate" and she allowed the withdrawl. Then she went into her unlit office and called 911.

Can anyone shed any light on this part of the story for me please? Thanks

WellDone
10-12-2010, 10:16 AM
I missed Dateline and hope they show the story again as I have been following it.

I'm a bit confused on some facts here, maybe someone can help me out.

She went to the bank, did not have her wallet, and showed pics of her girls?

Does anyone know why she did not have her wallet and wouldn't that draw much attention to the situation at hand? I may be missing something by not having a link or not seeing Dateline. This sounds off for many reasons. Why would pics of her girls help her to get monies at the bank?

I have been doing business with my bank for 15 years and showing pictures would not give me any money if I went to withdraw, but I do not have to show ID as they know me. If there is a new clerk, I am asked.

Can anyone shed any light on this part of the story for me please? Thanks

Goz

BBM

I thought the same thing about the bank releasing the money, especially so much w/o id...

From memory - sorry..looking for a link or transcript

On the 911 call from the bank... the woman tells 911 when JHP showed pictures of her girls she knew she was desperate... (something to that affect)

What I've understood from prior posts is SH & JK had her id/wallet????

robinparten
10-12-2010, 12:24 PM
It's just weird to me that the murderers would have kept her ID - you would think they would not have wanted her to stand out at all at the bank, and asking for $15,000 without your ID is a good way to stand out.

Bu then, nothing they did that day makes any sense at all.

jilly
10-12-2010, 06:09 PM
It's just weird to me that the murderers would have kept her ID - you would think they would not have wanted her to stand out at all at the bank, and asking for $15,000 without your ID is a good way to stand out.

Bu then, nothing they did that day makes any sense at all.

Maybe they gave her the bank books and thought that would be good enough. My bank books only have the acct #. I could see them thinking something stupid like that.

PrairieWind
10-13-2010, 10:14 AM
My guess on this is that in all the chaos of the burglary, the ransacking, etc, that when Hayes took Jennifer to the bank, they just didnt think about an ID. Jennifer was too scared to think about it, and the idiot burglars were focused on money, not details. As for why the bank would release the funds without ID, as was mentioned, she told the teller her family was being held hostage, she appeared terrified. I assume the manager released the money just as they would have if someone came in with a gun, the manager just assuming (and perhaps following a bank policy) that it was better to be safe than sorry.

jjenny
10-13-2010, 10:13 PM
My guess on this is that in all the chaos of the burglary, the ransacking, etc, that when Hayes took Jennifer to the bank, they just didnt think about an ID. Jennifer was too scared to think about it, and the idiot burglars were focused on money, not details. As for why the bank would release the funds without ID, as was mentioned, she told the teller her family was being held hostage, she appeared terrified. I assume the manager released the money just as they would have if someone came in with a gun, the manager just assuming (and perhaps following a bank policy) that it was better to be safe than sorry.

I agree. Those two "geniuses" probably didn't think about giving her the ID back so she could withdraw the money without attracting attention to herself.
And since she was petrified she likely did not think about an ID either until she got to the bank.

jilly
10-14-2010, 01:18 PM
A judge has rejected a defense request to allow an expert to testify about what it would cost the state and taxpayers to execute Steven Hayes versus sending him to prison for the rest of his life.

"A jury in the penalty phase of a capital case is charged with the task of using reasoned moral judgment, not counting dollars and cents," Judge Jon C. Blue wrote in his four-page decision.

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-hayes-ruling-1015-20101014,0,6350712.story

WellDone
10-14-2010, 02:32 PM
A judge has rejected a defense request to allow an expert to testify about what it would cost the state and taxpayers to execute Steven Hayes versus sending him to prison for the rest of his life.

"A jury in the penalty phase of a capital case is charged with the task of using reasoned moral judgment, not counting dollars and cents," Judge Jon C. Blue wrote in his four-page decision.

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-hayes-ruling-1015-20101014,0,6350712.story

BBM

Good job Judge Blue!

PrairieWind
10-14-2010, 03:30 PM
A judge has rejected a defense request to allow an expert to testify about what it would cost the state and taxpayers to execute Steven Hayes versus sending him to prison for the rest of his life.

"A jury in the penalty phase of a capital case is charged with the task of using reasoned moral judgment, not counting dollars and cents," Judge Jon C. Blue wrote in his four-page decision.

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-hayes-ruling-1015-20101014,0,6350712.story

Thats good to hear. Cost is not one of the "mitigating factors" that a jury can consider. That will be upheld on appeal easily

joypath
10-14-2010, 07:47 PM
And here's the actual decision



http://media2.wtnh.com/_local/documents/execution.pdf



Check out some of the comments, more than a FEW are on the money!:angel:

Native New Yorker
10-15-2010, 12:22 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/16/nyregion/16cheshire.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss


"Often noiselessly, reporters have tapped out updates on every conceivable aspect of the trial, including Judge Blue’s haircut, rumors about Mr. Hayes’s health and just about everything else, including a nomination of sorts that a magazine writer, “Esquire dude,” was the nicest of the national reporters in the mob of journalists. "

Cher352
10-18-2010, 09:27 AM
Judge Rules Against Prosecutors In Home Invasion
Hayes Convicted In Cheshire Home Invasion
POSTED: 11:15 am EDT October 15, 2010
UPDATED: 2:45 pm EDT October 15, 2010

NEW HAVEN, Conn. -- A Connecticut judge has rejected a request by prosecutors seeking statements made to a psychiatrist by a man convicted of killing a woman and her two daughters in a home invasion

http://www.wfsb.com/cheshirecase/25401950/detail.html

Cher352
10-18-2010, 09:32 AM
Defense Begins Fight For Steven Hayes' Life
9:30 p.m. EDT, October 17, 2010

The penalty phase of his trial is scheduled to begin today at Superior Court.

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-steven-hayes-penalty-setup-1018-20101017,0,294211.story

Also poll at this link as to whether Steven Hayes should be given The Death Penalty.

Cher352
10-18-2010, 09:36 AM
Follow the Live Updates On Twitter From The Steven Hayes' Cheshire Trial

http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/2010/09/live-updates-on-twitter-from-t.html

Reporters are already tweeting, I suppose court starts at 10 a.m. as usual there.

joypath
10-18-2010, 10:58 AM
Quickie from the hallway: FAMILY WILL SPEAK but NOT Dr. Petit. Marshall indicated Dr.'s sister and Jennifer's Father ANTICIPATED but NOT definite...emotions might get the better of sister.

joypath
10-18-2010, 11:00 AM
General game plan from "defense" BLAME Komisarjevsky :croc:as the ringleader, Hayes as a drug addled fiend without an ability to reason thing out, just a poor little follower! PShaw!:banghead::sick:

joypath
10-18-2010, 11:29 AM
WOW! Change in plans big time: decision NOT to speak by family!
State and family believe that the evidence in trial is MORE THAN ENOUGH!




and IMO, truer words were never spoken! Also, the whisper is do not want ANYTHING available to Hayes or "K" for an appeal basis!:snooty:

PrairieWind
10-18-2010, 11:32 AM
Looks like the state just called one witness in the penalty phase. Just someone to introduce prior convictions of Hayes. Most of what the state needs to prove the aggravating circumstances for a death penalty was already introduced during the guilt phase of the trial.

William N
10-18-2010, 11:59 AM
The state must feel that if the evidence in the guilt phase doesn't result in the death penalty, nothing else will.

David In TN

joypath
10-18-2010, 12:26 PM
Again from the hallway: both motions DENIED! Judge Blue is NOT going to minimize the circumstances that the victims experienced at the hands of THIS CONVICTED 16 count killer! Jury on its way in, me on my way back to the OME. One thought: the ANGER & DISGUST toward Hayes is almost palpable by the members of the courtroom audience but the jury are so CALM and totally "in the zone" of listening to the principles of the case! This CONVICT is getting a fair shake, these folks are definitely taking their vows to heart!

PrairieWind
10-18-2010, 12:42 PM
Now, it appears the defense will try to get some sympathy since Hayes is a father. Anyone know anything about his kid(s)? That might get some traction with the jury, not sure, hard to tell.

jilly
10-18-2010, 04:12 PM
Recap of today's proceedings:

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-hayes-penalty-phase-begins-1019-20101018,0,1004724.story

jjenny
10-18-2010, 04:32 PM
Now, it appears the defense will try to get some sympathy since Hayes is a father. Anyone know anything about his kid(s)? That might get some traction with the jury, not sure, hard to tell.

Both JK and Hayes are fathers.
But I fail to see why it should get them any sympathy, considering how much "concern" was shown to the 11 year old child by the two of them.

PrairieWind
10-18-2010, 04:43 PM
Both JK and Hayes are fathers.
But I fail to see why it should get them any sympathy, considering how much "concern" was shown to the 11 year old child by the two of them.

Certainly wouldnt generate sympathy from me, but you just never know about the jurors. Actually, knowing that these animals had children of their own makes me even more mad. Just think of the trauma and shame and sadness they have created for their children. Those kids now have to grow up and live with the knowledge of what their fathers did. Most kids will go to school and talk about what their parents do, "my dad is a fireman, my dad is a truck driver" and be proud. These kids will never want anyone to know what their dads did. Sad.

jilly
10-18-2010, 06:23 PM
They can say whatever they want about hayes being a father but the fact is - he watched a father get beaten nearly to death and violently strangled a mother to death after brutally raping her.
He's not a candidate for Father of the Year imo.

MCDRAW
10-18-2010, 07:34 PM
They can say whatever they want about hayes being a father but the fact is - he watched a father get beaten nearly to death and violently strangled a mother to death after brutally raping her.
He's not a candidate for Father of the Year imo.

No and not only that but he helped pour gasoline so they could kill two girls that were alive and breathing. He has no redeeming qualities in my book.

Native New Yorker
10-18-2010, 09:32 PM
He helped pour the gasoline, or at the very least, did nothing while it was poured on the two living girls, may have lit a match to ignite, or at the least did nothing to save them...

THEN ran out of the house laughing like a hyena, wearing the crew(rowing) cap which belonged to Hayley, who by this time was dying upstairs.

Enough said.

No sympathy, erase this monster from our world.

jjenny
10-19-2010, 12:39 AM
He helped pour the gasoline, or at the very least, did nothing while it was poured on the two living girls, may have lit a match to ignite, or at the least did nothing to save them...

THEN ran out of the house laughing like a hyena, wearing the crew(rowing) cap which belonged to Hayley, who by this time was dying upstairs.

...

And he certainly wasn't an unwilling participant to begin with. "Horses just want to get lose"-very eager to get going, wasn't he?

Cher352
10-19-2010, 09:35 AM
Follow the Live Updates On Twitter From The Steven Hayes' Cheshire Trial

http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/2010/09/live-updates-on-twitter-from-t.html

Reporters are already tweeting, I suppose court starts at 10 a.m. as usual there.

Bumping for today's session.

jilly
10-19-2010, 09:40 AM
"Unresolved anger controls me. It haunts me day and night, sometimes to the point of obsession, even scary fantasy."

A year after Hayes penned those words, he would be charged with the brutal killings of a Cheshire mother and her two daughters.

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-hayes-penalty-phase-begins-1019-20101018,0,3307451,full.story

PrairieWind
10-19-2010, 10:15 AM
Before the jury arrives, the court is hearing argument of objection by the state to the introduction by the defense of letters from Komisarjevsky to his author. It seems to me that the letters are clearly hearsay and should be kept out. However, you could see some advantage to the letters being ready by the jury.

PrairieWind
10-19-2010, 10:46 AM
Apparently from Judge's ruling hearsay is admissible in penalty phase in Connecticut.

Lola
10-19-2010, 10:51 AM
Re: VI statement. Words would be so inadequate and how could you ever get through it given the crime. It could be that simple. I even find it hard to read some of this stuff and I'm a complete stranger.

PrairieWind
10-19-2010, 11:07 AM
Defense brings up a contractor that owned the truck that Hayes had the night of the crime, and that had worked iwth Hayes. Initially he says Hayes was great, reliable, polite, protective of women, never said anytihng vulgar. Then on cross-examination and confronted with prior statements he changes his mind and admits that Hayes frequently made very vulgar statements to women, degrading sexual comments. I guess that witness backfired on the defense! lol. Now the jury must be wondering if they can believe ANY of the defense witnesses.

PrairieWind
10-19-2010, 01:02 PM
Clerk reading letters from Kom about the details of burglarizing homes. But this could very well backfire as well. Kom held himself out as very patient, professional burglar. had done this many many times. Prosecution could ask "so why was the Petit burglary different?" The difference was an irrational Hayes added into the mixture. Jury could then see Hayes as the catalyst for the mahem.

JulieR
10-19-2010, 01:06 PM
GeorgeColli: The detail that komisarjevski goes into is overwhelming. to think such knowledge and complexity goes into breaking into home is frightening


Its really sad JK didn't put all them brains of his to doing something worth while with his life.

PrairieWind
10-19-2010, 01:13 PM
GeorgeColli: The detail that komisarjevski goes into is overwhelming. to think such knowledge and complexity goes into breaking into home is frightening


Its really sad JK didn't put all them brains of his to doing something worth while with his life.

Julie, keep in mind that what you are hearing here is just Kom's version of what happened. I have no doubt that he embelishing a LOT to make himself sound like a big time burglar. If he was so careful and smart, why had he spent so much time in jail?

PrairieWind
10-19-2010, 03:35 PM
Wow, the afternoon readings from Kom's journal are just horrific for the family to listen to. Ravings of a lunatic. Blames Dr. Petit for not fighting back (like a person even could fight back after being repeatedly hit in the head with a ball bat). Admits to everything essentially, blames society I guess. Says he took pics of Michaela to blackmail the family later. Unreal. Although, his ramblings make clear that Dr. Petit was not involved in anyway. So we can put that crap rumor to bed. I sure hope the jury sees that this rambling in no way should save Hayes from the death chamber.

jilly
10-19-2010, 03:48 PM
Appreciate all your posts this morning prairiewind!:thumb:

PrairieWind
10-19-2010, 04:10 PM
Thank you jilly. Not really post much, just a few excerpts that I thought were significant. I am really really disturbed that those diary excerpts were admitted. They are totally irrelevant to any mitigating or aggravating factors as far as hayes is concerned. I think this shows the Judge Blue is being extremely generous to the defense to avoid appeal issues AND it shows Connecticut's lack of experience in death penatly cases. It is truely shamefull what vicitims and families must endure to get their justice.

jjenny
10-19-2010, 04:18 PM
Wow, the afternoon readings from Kom's journal are just horrific for the family to listen to. Ravings of a lunatic. Blames Dr. Petit for not fighting back (like a person even could fight back after being repeatedly hit in the head with a ball bat). Admits to everything essentially, blames society I guess. Says he took pics of Michaela to blackmail the family later. Unreal. Although, his ramblings make clear that Dr. Petit was not involved in anyway. So we can put that crap rumor to bed. I sure hope the jury sees that this rambling in no way should save Hayes from the death chamber.
Dr. Petit was beat up while he was sleeping, so he never got a chance to fight back in any way. Even then most people wouldn't be able to fight against two men armed with a baseball bat-maybe if JK and Hayes broke into Chuck Norris' house he would have beat up the crap out of them. Blaming everybody else except himself is not surprising-and Hayes lawyer even tried to suggest in the beginning of the trial police was to blame for not acting quickly enough-as if everybody else is supposed to stop his client from rape and murder and it's their fault if they didn't do it.

MCDRAW
10-19-2010, 07:12 PM
Julie, keep in mind that what you are hearing here is just Kom's version of what happened. I have no doubt that he embelishing a LOT to make himself sound like a big time burglar. If he was so careful and smart, why had he spent so much time in jail?


Ha ha don't you know that all criminals are smarter than the rest of us. My brother told me he was smarter than me, and I said yet you sit locked in a cage and I am free. I asked him how that was working for him.

jilly
10-19-2010, 07:21 PM
Thank you jilly. Not really post much, just a few excerpts that I thought were significant. I am really really disturbed that those diary excerpts were admitted. They are totally irrelevant to any mitigating or aggravating factors as far as hayes is concerned. I think this shows the Judge Blue is being extremely generous to the defense to avoid appeal issues AND it shows Connecticut's lack of experience in death penatly cases. It is truely shamefull what vicitims and families must endure to get their justice.

Totally inflammatory as far as the remarks against Dr Petit. I think there's a good chance the jury could write off all jk's musings after that statement.

I just don't understand how this evidence was admitted either. You can't cross examine a statement. They could at least present the author of the book- how do we know he didn't throw some colorful fiction in there for effect.

I think this is a very smart jury and they're going to see through this.

jilly
10-19-2010, 07:24 PM
Ha ha don't you know that all criminals are smarter than the rest of us. My brother told me he was smarter than me, and I said yet you sit locked in a cage and I am free. I asked him how that was working for him.


:rolling::floorlaugh:

JulieR
10-19-2010, 09:10 PM
Julie, keep in mind that what you are hearing here is just Kom's version of what happened. I have no doubt that he embelishing a LOT to make himself sound like a big time burglar. If he was so careful and smart, why had he spent so much time in jail?



LOL So true, I do believe half the stuff he said is bull.

jjenny
10-19-2010, 10:30 PM
Thank you jilly. Not really post much, just a few excerpts that I thought were significant. I am really really disturbed that those diary excerpts were admitted. They are totally irrelevant to any mitigating or aggravating factors as far as hayes is concerned. I think this shows the Judge Blue is being extremely generous to the defense to avoid appeal issues AND it shows Connecticut's lack of experience in death penatly cases. It is truely shamefull what vicitims and families must endure to get their justice.

An article that talks a little bit more about what was in JK's diary. Personally I don't think that defendant is in good shape if that diary is used to defend him, but I guess will have to wait and see what the jury does.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/petit-murder-trial-steven-hayes-diary-joshua-komisarjevsky/story?id=11916557

jjenny
10-19-2010, 10:33 PM
Totally inflammatory as far as the remarks against Dr Petit. I think there's a good chance the jury could write off all jk's musings after that statement.

I just don't understand how this evidence was admitted either. You can't cross examine a statement. They could at least present the author of the book- how do we know he didn't throw some colorful fiction in there for effect.

I think this is a very smart jury and they're going to see through this.

I am not concerned about this "evidence" at all. Really what is in this diary that would make the jury want to spare Hayes life? I just don't see it. Add to this JK blames Hayes for murder and rape of Mrs. Petit, so it's not exactly putting Hayes in good light if you ask me.

PrairieWind
10-20-2010, 01:44 AM
I am not concerned about this "evidence" at all. Really what is in this diary that would make the jury want to spare Hayes life? I just don't see it. Add to this JK blames Hayes for murder and rape of Mrs. Petit, so it's not exactly putting Hayes in good light if you ask me.

I agree. All it is is an attempt to say "hey, that guy was worse than me." But I'm not sure it achieves that. It just reminds the jury of the horror of that night, and the prosecution will probably state in its closing that JK conducted a lot of burglaries in his life and they were all non violent. It was only when he hooked up with Hayes that it turned into a blood bath.

Gozgals
10-20-2010, 05:04 AM
I really don't think this will influence the jury at all. All it does is remind them of how henious the crime was. I have faith we will see a DP verdict and be rid of this garbage.
His partner is an animal too, (Komisarjevsky) and I can't wait till his court date.
Blaming Dr. Petit serves no purpose either but to upset the jury further. (IMO)

Anyone got a take on Mr. Petit, on how he is holding up? They say he is strong but I'm so concerned about him. I really admire him. His life must be so difficult. Blessings. It takes so much to endure all he has been faced with, and having to re-live this crime everyday in court.
My thoughts and prayers go out to him on a daily basis.

Goz

kk's mom
10-20-2010, 09:26 AM
I read some of the exerpts of this JK diary. What a disgusting human being he is, along with his partner SH. Nothing written in these books are going to help SH. If anything, the jury will hate him even more. How can anyone have one ounce of sympathy for either of these guys. I get naseauted (sp?) reading anything about this trial. It has to be one of the most brutal horrific crimes I have ever read about or followed.

May god keep a watchful eye on the three Petit angels in heaven and on Dr. Petit here on earth. This man is a saint in my books. How he gets up out of bed everyday is beyond me. But he does and he does it for his family. I worry about him and I pray that his strength and courage continue to get him through each day. I hope one day Dr. Petit is able to find happiness and smile once again.

Cher352
10-20-2010, 09:40 AM
LOL So true, I do believe half the stuff he said is bull.

Like this :

Referring to the 11-year-old, Komisarjevsky continued, "I tasted her fear." After she was dead, he wrote, he took "blackmail pictures" of her body that he "intended to use against Mr. and Mrs. Petit. ... What I was not prepared for was my demons getting the better of me."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/19/connecticut.murder.trial.penalty/index.html



We know this is a lie by the autopsy results. M died in the fire so she was not dead when he took the pictures earlier that morning. I guess he is trying to get people to believe that he didn't leave them to burn alive.:furious:

Cher352
10-20-2010, 09:44 AM
Day 3 of the Penalty Phase

Live Updates From The Steven Hayes' Cheshire Trial:

http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/2010/09/live-updates-on-twitter-from-t.html

William N
10-20-2010, 11:28 AM
Wow, the afternoon readings from Kom's journal are just horrific for the family to listen to. Ravings of a lunatic. Blames Dr. Petit for not fighting back (like a person even could fight back after being repeatedly hit in the head with a ball bat). Admits to everything essentially, blames society I guess. Says he took pics of Michaela to blackmail the family later. Unreal. Although, his ramblings make clear that Dr. Petit was not involved in anyway. So we can put that crap rumor to bed. I sure hope the jury sees that this rambling in no way should save Hayes from the death chamber.

Brian McDonald, author of the (heavily criticized) book "In the Middle of the Night," gave this interview (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20002701-504083.html) to CBS. McDonald said in part:

"...there was a lot to like about Joshua. He's charming, soft-spoken and articulate. Home-schooled by his mother, a librarian, he's as well read as any prep-school graduate."

Yeah, there sure was "a lot to like about Joshua."

David In TN

PrairieWind
10-20-2010, 12:36 PM
So it appears from the phychiatrist testimony that Hayes has been suicidal a lot and that he told the docs that he was hoping the jury would sentence him to death, but that he and his lawyers disagreed on that. So lets get this straight: Hayes wants death (either suicide or lethal injection (which sure beats slitting your wrists)), the victims' family want death for Hayes, the state wants death. Yet here we are in this long expensive trial with years of appeals ahead of us. Stupid.

Gozgals
10-20-2010, 12:52 PM
Brian McDonald, author of the (heavily criticized) book "In the Middle of the Night," gave this interview (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20002701-504083.html) to CBS. McDonald said in part:

"...there was a lot to like about Joshua. He's charming, soft-spoken and articulate. Home-schooled by his mother, a librarian, he's as well read as any prep-school graduate."

Yeah, there sure was "a lot to like about Joshua."

David In TN

What I read from the diaries was so horrid I was sick. Everything I have read about him made me ill.
I'd like to read the book, but he sounds like he enjoyed the heck out of the killings. He really got off on doing this deed. Can't wait till his time comes.

Yes, William, I'm sure there is tons to like about Joshua-- the first thing I know I would like about him is to see him get the DP...

Goz

jjenny
10-20-2010, 12:53 PM
So it appears from the phychiatrist testimony that Hayes has been suicidal a lot and that he told the docs that he was hoping the jury would sentence him to death, but that he and his lawyers disagreed on that. So lets get this straight: Hayes wants death (either suicide or lethal injection (which sure beats slitting your wrists)), the victims' family want death for Hayes, the state wants death. Yet here we are in this long expensive trial with years of appeals ahead of us. Stupid.

Well I certainly hope his wish is granted.

gxm
10-20-2010, 03:02 PM
Does anyone else have the sinking feeling that JK might be setting himself up for an insanity plea?

PrairieWind
10-20-2010, 03:19 PM
Does anyone else have the sinking feeling that JK might be setting himself up for an insanity plea?

He might try it, since he has NO other defense. But I kind of doubt it. He is no where near being incompetant to stand trial, etc. Personality disorders (which is what he probably has) are not considered mental illness that renders one incompetant.

jjenny
10-20-2010, 05:57 PM
Does anyone else have the sinking feeling that JK might be setting himself up for an insanity plea?

Nope. For the insanity defense, any mental problems he might have isn't enough, he'd have to not know right from wrong and fail to see what exactly suggests he does not know right from wrong?

JulieR
10-20-2010, 09:25 PM
I think the only thing JK may have going for him in his death penalty sentence, is his family. That is if they take the stand and say anything good about him. It appears SH don't have any of that even his mother didn't stand up for him, which I do find kind of sad........DON'T get me wrong he deserves death but one would think at least a mother, brother or someone in the family would say one thing good about him, he don't appear to have anyone.
I don't care what my child did I would be there for him, If SH was my son I would at least say how he was as a child. I COULD NOT ask the jury to spare his life, knowing what he did to the Petit family, but I would at least be there. JMO

Only4Justice
10-20-2010, 11:12 PM
I think the only thing JK may have going for him in his death penalty sentence, is his family. That is if they take the stand and say anything good about him. It appears SH don't have any of that even his mother didn't stand up for him, which I do find kind of sad........DON'T get me wrong he deserves death but one would think at least a mother, brother or someone in the family would say one thing good about him, he don't appear to have anyone.
I don't care what my child did I would be there for him, If SH was my son I would at least say how he was as a child. I COULD NOT ask the jury to spare his life, knowing what he did to the Petit family, but I would at least be there. JMO

Hi Websleuths Friends, I have been following this case since the beginning although difficult.

I don't agree with you JulieR....as the mother of two sons, I really believe if one of my sons committed a crime like this, I could not stand by him. I would tell him I loved him, but such actions as committed by SH and JK cannot be justified, son or not. :(

Gozgals
10-20-2010, 11:19 PM
Does anyone else have the sinking feeling that JK might be setting himself up for an insanity plea?

I really don't think so gxm. It doesn't appear he is incompetent, he appears to know right from wrong. Any problems he has did not interfere with the crime he committed. I'm not saying that they won't try to use it though. Anything to get him off will be undertaken.

Goz

Cher352
10-21-2010, 07:49 AM
So it appears from the phychiatrist testimony that Hayes has been suicidal a lot and that he told the docs that he was hoping the jury would sentence him to death, but that he and his lawyers disagreed on that. So lets get this straight: Hayes wants death (either suicide or lethal injection (which sure beats slitting your wrists)), the victims' family want death for Hayes, the state wants death. Yet here we are in this long expensive trial with years of appeals ahead of us. Stupid.

I was thinking it is more like Brer Rabbit saying "Oh please Brer Fox, whatever you do, please don't throw me into the briar patch." ...

Lola
10-21-2010, 08:09 AM
Like this :

Referring to the 11-year-old, Komisarjevsky continued, "I tasted her fear." After she was dead, he wrote, he took "blackmail pictures" of her body that he "intended to use against Mr. and Mrs. Petit. ... What I was not prepared for was my demons getting the better of me."

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/19/connecticut.murder.trial.penalty/index.html



We know this is a lie by the autopsy results. M died in the fire so she was not dead when he took the pictures earlier that morning. I guess he is trying to get people to believe that he didn't leave them to burn alive.:furious:

So, first it was Dr. Petit's fault and then it was his demons?

JulieR
10-21-2010, 09:23 AM
Hi Websleuths Friends, I have been following this case since the beginning although difficult.

I don't agree with you JulieR....as the mother of two sons, I really believe if one of my sons committed a crime like this, I could not stand by him. I would tell him I loved him, but such actions as committed by SH and JK cannot be justified, son or not. :(


I would not be there to say I agree with what he did. I would be there as his mother, to say I love him but I do not understand him. If I was up on the stand I would have to say, I am horrified by his actions! This is not the son I raised and as much as I love him, I CAN NOT ask this jury to spare his life after the actions he took on the Petit family. JMO, but I think any parent that is not there for their child unconditionally, should not be a parent.

jilly
10-21-2010, 12:13 PM
In his own words: What Komisarjevsky wrote about the Cheshire slayings


http://nhregister.com/articles/2010/10/19/news/doc4cbe00f2efb2b590913108.txt

Cher352
10-21-2010, 04:47 PM
Court resumes Monday.

Personality I don't like this having a separate trial for the penalty phase...increases the amount of time that justice is delayed.

The one thing that I would not mind a tax increase for is money to speed up the whole trial process; more judges, more courtrooms, more prosecutors or whatever it takes so that trials were M-F, 8-5 for jury trials and 7days a week for non-jury trials. Something need to be done so to get rid of the backlog and get back to swift justice.

Of course their are a lot of changes/repeals that need to take place with the appeal laws and prisoner rights but I won't even try to go there.....

(sorry for the rant)

sweetmop
10-21-2010, 05:29 PM
In his own words: What Komisarjevsky wrote about the Cheshire slayings


http://nhregister.com/articles/2010/10/19/news/doc4cbe00f2efb2b590913108.txt

Hey jilly!
After reading "his words", I feel sick. What a truely demented and evil individual this is. He derived alot of sadistic pleasure from the terror and murdering of this family. And he thinks about it and talks about it all the time. He liked subjecting this innocent, sweet family to such unthinkable terror!
Like so many have already said "if ever a case screamed for the DP, this one is that case"!

Frightening too that he has a little girl of his own that was in his care. I wonder if he harmed her in any way or molested her ever!? It wouldn't surprise me at all.
No, this guy is not insane. He's very cunning. Evil. Cruel. Sadistic. But he's not insane. And after reading "his words" they only verify that 100% to me!

jilly
10-21-2010, 06:46 PM
Hey jilly!
After reading "his words", I feel sick. What a truely demented and evil individual this is. He derived alot of sadistic pleasure from the terror and murdering of this family. And he thinks about it and talks about it all the time. He liked subjecting this innocent, sweet family to such unthinkable terror!
Like so many have already said "if ever a case screamed for the DP, this one is that case"!

Frightening too that he has a little girl of his own that was in his care. I wonder if he harmed her in any way or molested her ever!? It wouldn't surprise me at all.
No, this guy is not insane. He's very cunning. Evil. Cruel. Sadistic. But he's not insane. And after reading "his words" they only verify that 100% to me!

Hey sweet:blowkiss:

You nailed it!

The jury's probably relieved they didn't get the both of them in one trial.

I'm really happy that this guy has been removed from his daughter's life!!!

paxtonk
10-22-2010, 12:13 PM
Brian McDonald, author of the (heavily criticized) book "In the Middle of the Night," gave this interview (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-20002701-504083.html) to CBS. McDonald said in part:

"...there was a lot to like about Joshua. He's charming, soft-spoken and articulate. Home-schooled by his mother, a librarian, he's as well read as any prep-school graduate."

Yeah, there sure was "a lot to like about Joshua."

David In TN

Absolutely sickening -

PrairieWind
10-22-2010, 04:06 PM
I read the journal, and I think mostly its just crap; fluff and imagination for the benefit of the author. The guy has been a total looser his entire life but now has some fame/notoriety, and he's determined to make the most of it. He refers to some trauma that occurred when he was six or so, i'm assuming he is claiming he was molested or something. I guess we'll hear about that at his trial. But if he was truely willing to "let death take him in his prime" as he claims, he would have just pleaded guilty and got on with it. But i'm guessing he will be dragged kicking and screaming to the death chamber.

Also of note, he seems to insinuate that Hayes started the fire, at least that is what i gathered. He mentioned something about wanting retrobution from steve for taking from him the Petit family. bottom of page 7 top of page 8 in the excerp. I took that to mean that Steve "killed" the family, ie lit the fire. Interesting. This journal would not have been admissible at this trial if not for the defense raising it. The DA should point out that portion in his closing of the penalty phase.

scapa
10-23-2010, 08:31 PM
As a writer and teacher of writers this strikes me as pretty standard inward-looking angst-ridden self-pitying profoundly adolescent fare -- minus the actual crimes of rape, torture and murder, of course.

It confirms what I have long suspected (also the reason I avoid the italicized sections in any thriller): that sadistic killers are, as a rule, a dull and vacuous lot. We may be horrified and even fascinated by their crimes, for reason that we are not always aware of or comfortable with, but there is nothing intrinsically interesting about the people who commit them.

Here's hoping that K's "works" never get published, never become part of an online bookshelf, and never, ever inspire another so-called artist into imitating them. Roll on the great virtual shredder and the speedier the trial the better, say I.

best,

s

Native New Yorker
10-24-2010, 11:43 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/25/nyregion/25cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss


"Could the jurors, a few feet away in the small courtroom, have missed the torment of the two elderly couples, the grandparents, as the deaths of the children, 11-year-old Michaela and 17-year-old Hayley, were described?
From their jury box, they must have figured out that there are uncles and aunts of the girls crowded into the courtroom benches, well-kept people with clenched jaws. Did they notice the young people occasionally squeezed into the rows, about the age Hayley or Michaela would be now, looking stricken and vanishing after a few hours from the courtroom where things are said that should never have to be said?
The message is clear: There are people left behind."

jjenny
10-25-2010, 12:21 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/25/nyregion/25cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss


"Could the jurors, a few feet away in the small courtroom, have missed the torment of the two elderly couples, the grandparents, as the deaths of the children, 11-year-old Michaela and 17-year-old Hayley, were described?
From their jury box, they must have figured out that there are uncles and aunts of the girls crowded into the courtroom benches, well-kept people with clenched jaws. Did they notice the young people occasionally squeezed into the rows, about the age Hayley or Michaela would be now, looking stricken and vanishing after a few hours from the courtroom where things are said that should never have to be said?
The message is clear: There are people left behind."

It seems so very unfair that so much time is spend on talking about Hayes and his life in and out of jail instead of talking about his victims and wonderful life they had ahead of them in case of the two girls. What difference does it make that somebody let Hayes borrow the truck?

jjenny
10-25-2010, 12:26 AM
I think the only thing JK may have going for him in his death penalty sentence, is his family. That is if they take the stand and say anything good about him. It appears SH don't have any of that even his mother didn't stand up for him, which I do find kind of sad........DON'T get me wrong he deserves death but one would think at least a mother, brother or someone in the family would say one thing good about him, he don't appear to have anyone.
I don't care what my child did I would be there for him, If SH was my son I would at least say how he was as a child. I COULD NOT ask the jury to spare his life, knowing what he did to the Petit family, but I would at least be there. JMO

Hayes mother is dead, and the nyt article says one of his brothers never was close to him and the other one doesn't want to have anything to do with Hayes.

PrairieWind
10-25-2010, 12:31 PM
So far today, just testimony by prison officials that Hayes was a pretty good prisoner, etc.

PrairieWind
10-25-2010, 12:47 PM
Ooops, now under cross examination by the state, it is revealed that on numerous occasions Hayes has threatened to kill corrections officers.

jjenny
10-25-2010, 03:36 PM
Ooops, now under cross examination by the state, it is revealed that on numerous occasions Hayes has threatened to kill corrections officers.

Sweet and harmless as can be, ain't he?

Native New Yorker
10-26-2010, 12:58 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/26/nyregion/26cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss


"The prosecutor also introduced a prison report from 1986, when Mr. Hayes was a 23-year-old inmate. That report showed that after a dispute over telephone privileges, Mr. Hayes had an altercation with a guard. “I am going to hurt you; I am going to rip your heart out,” the report quoted Mr. Hayes as saying."

shefner
10-26-2010, 01:40 AM
Let's get on with it....this man is getting the death penalty. I hope the appeals are small and quick. This is one of the cruelest cases I have read about and justice needs to be served.

LiveLaughLuv
10-26-2010, 08:43 AM
Attorneys For Petit Murderer Steven Hayes Turn to Prison Safety During Sentencing Trial
Defense Witness in Hayes' Sentencing Trial Reminds Jury of Notorious Prison Deaths, Including Jeffrey Dahmer

By KAITLYN FOLMER, SARAH NETTER and EMILY FRIEDMAN
NEW HAVEN, Conn., Oct. 25, 2010
Attorneys working to spare the life of convicted murderer Steven Hayes turned the heat on the Connecticut prison system today, grilling former corrections officials on inmate safety.

Retired corrections commissioner Theresa Lantz, first on the stand this morning for the defense, invoked notorious murderer Jeffrey Dahmer and de-frocked Boston pedophile priest John Geoghan as high-profile inmates who were brutally murdered while serving their sentences.

"It's a horrific crime that was committed," Lantz said when asked if she had any concerns for Hayes' safety in the wake of the July 2007 home invasion that left Jennifer Hawke-Petit and her two daughters, Hayley, 17, and Michaela, 11, dead. "When you have offenders with that type of a history ... you're very concerned about their safety."

Today kicked off the second week of testimony in the sentencing phase of Hayes' trial. The prosecution, which is pushing for the death penalty, rested its case the first morning after calling a clerk to read a list of Hayes' criminal convictions.

more
http://abcnews.go.com/US/attorneys-petit-murderer-steven-hayes-turn-prison-safety/story?id=11963741

Last week, Yale University Professor Dr. Paul Amble, who conducted a four-hour evaluation of Hayes earlier this year, testified that the defendant has made multiple attempts to commit suicide while incarcerated, as recently as August of this year.

Amble told the court that Hayes tried to kill himself "several times" prior to the Petit murders, and admitted to wanting to die after the Petit triple murder as well.

"[Hayes] described his persistent desire to die were because of his feelings of guilt, remorse and his condition of confinement," said Amble.

Since entering the MacDougall-Walker Correctional Institution, Hayes has attempted to overdose on a variety of pills. In October 2007, prison authorities found 20 pills that Hayes had hoarded in his cell and in January 2009 puncture wounds on his left forearm were spotted.

In January, Hayes "ingested a toxic level of thorazine," an anti-psychotic drug that Amble testified Hayes was not prescribed.

In August, just a month before his trial was slated to begin, Hayes tried to overdose on Ibuprofen, according to Amble.

Hayes told Amble that he often fantasized about killing himself, and even thought about sticking his head in the toilet in his cell and doing a back flip, presumably to break his neck.

Entering prison at 200 lbs, Hayes has since lost 70 lbs, in part because of his paranoia that the prison staff was "contaminating his food."

He wants to die, so I do hope the jurors will comply with his request!

If ever a case that warrants the DP, this is one of them...JMHO

Justice for the Hawke-Petit family

Cher352
10-26-2010, 10:05 AM
Whoa they changed the thread and title...I was lost.:crosseyed:

LiveLaughLuv
10-26-2010, 10:14 AM
Let's get on with it....this man is getting the death penalty. I hope the appeals are small and quick. This is one of the cruelest cases I have read about and justice needs to be served.

ITA...maybe he could take a lesson from Aileen Wournos, she did not appeal her DP conviction and was put to death rather quick...IF SH truly wants to end his life, he should not appeal his conviction...he's tried suicide many times and failed, this is one sure fire way not to fail! :furious:

But, he needs to stay alive long enough to testify at JK's trial. This man will be the next death row inmate..JMHO


Justice for the Hawke-Petit family

jjenny
10-26-2010, 11:29 AM
ITA...maybe he could take a lesson from Aileen Wournos, she did not appeal her DP conviction and was put to death rather quick...IF SH truly wants to end his life, he should not appeal his conviction...he's tried suicide many times and failed, this is one sure fire way not to fail! :furious:

But, he needs to stay alive long enough to testify at JK's trial. This man will be the next death row inmate..JMHO


Justice for the Hawke-Petit family

What makes you think he would testify in JK's trial. JK didn't testify in Hayes trial, why would Hayes testify in JK's trial. By the way I don't buy his suicide attempts. Supposedly he tried suicide many times but yet he is perfectly alive, while Jennifer Petit is dead. So if he really wanted to kill himself why is he still alive?

scrabble
10-26-2010, 01:04 PM
I saw the Aileen Wuornos Biography on television within the past week, and what a very scary and sick individual she was.

PrairieWind
10-27-2010, 10:58 AM
http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/2010/09/live-updates-on-twitter-from-t.html

PrairieWind
10-27-2010, 11:52 AM
So far this morning, Hayes parol office testifies that Hayes was on probation, seemed to be doing well, had gotten jobs, living with his mother, attending AA, no indications that he would commit horrible crimes. State cross - parol officer indicates hayes had 26 arrests in his life. This testimony seems mostly worthless to me. Sure, Hayes seemed to be doing ok on parol. But that seems to be mostly useless info. There is no question that he committed this horrible crime. So, his law abiding behavior noted by the parol officer seems to be nothing but a charade. If I was a juror, thinking back on those texts just before the crime about how eager he was, I would find it very distrubing that Hayes was able to fool his very experenced parol officer that way.

jjenny
10-27-2010, 12:56 PM
So far this morning, Hayes parol office testifies that Hayes was on probation, seemed to be doing well, had gotten jobs, living with his mother, attending AA, no indications that he would commit horrible crimes. State cross - parol officer indicates hayes had 26 arrests in his life. This testimony seems mostly worthless to me. Sure, Hayes seemed to be doing ok on parol. But that seems to be mostly useless info. There is no question that he committed this horrible crime. So, his law abiding behavior noted by the parol officer seems to be nothing but a charade. If I was a juror, thinking back on those texts just before the crime about how eager he was, I would find it very distrubing that Hayes was able to fool his very experenced parol officer that way.

No indication Hayes was going to commit horrible crimes? Is that supposed to make us all feel better considering he was just convicted of murder? So apparently his parole officer had no clue whatsoever what Hayes was going to do and defense thinks that's a good thing?

PrairieWind
10-27-2010, 01:15 PM
I agree Jenny. The guy who appears totally normal, then out of the blue commits atrocities is far more scary to me than someone who appears dangerous all along. Furthermore, if Hayes is really this depressed and is actually considering suicide, he may try to do something such as attack another inmate in order to induce a "suicide by cop." Plus this whole idea that the jury shouldnt give the death penalty to someone because they are suicidal is soooo stupid it just makes my head hurt!!

jjenny
10-28-2010, 06:28 PM
Well I guess this really explains why his brother isn't attending in support of him.

"Steven is what Steven is because he is a coward," Matthew Hayes wrote in the letter, which was read by a clerk. "As family of this monster we all have to live with this nightmare."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/murderer-steven-hayes-caught-off-guard-rape-fire/story?id=11994340

Cher352
10-28-2010, 06:31 PM
http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/2010/09/live-updates-on-twitter-from-t.html

Spent so much time the last couple of days following Zahra's case that I have missed the court proceedings on this case.

By looking at the tweets on the above link it looks like a tough day for Dr Petit today.

Cher352
10-28-2010, 06:43 PM
Psychiatrist Says Hayes' Rage Turned To Strangulation, Rape

Steven Hayes said that while the 2007 Cheshire home invasion was still underway his accomplice, Joshua Komisarjevsky, reported that Dr. William Petit Jr. and his daughters had died and that Komisarjevsky would have to burn the house because his DNA was on the girls, an expert witness testified this morning.

<snip>

The scenario contradicted statements attributed to Hayes earlier in the trial.

<snip>

Final arguments in the penalty phase of his trial are scheduled for Monday, with the case going to the jury Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning.


http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-hayes-penalty-day7-1029-20101028,0,6452696.story

Lots of differences in this story of what happened according to what Hayes told the psychiatrist.

Wonder why they allow this? Isn't this like Hayes testifying through someone else?

jilly
10-28-2010, 10:08 PM
Letter by Matthew Hayes, brother of Steve, submitted to prosecution.

I found this letter to be very sad and disturbing. My heart goes out to Matthew.

I think this will seal it for the DP.

http://nhregister.com/articles/2010/10/28/news/doc4cc9edf3e7c2d948445371.txt

PrairieWind
10-29-2010, 12:26 AM
Agreed Jilly. It sounds like growing up that Steven really emotionally tortured his little brother and allowed his little brother to be beaten for things that steven did. I also wondered where Hayes family was during this. I later learned that his mother was deceased, but still wondered about teh brother and children etc. Now we know. To be honest, this testimony today didnt help Hayes. It showed how he has always allowed otehrs to take his punishment for him, seemed to have NO remorse, and that he was apparently even able to fool the defense phyciatrist. The doctors testimony that steven told him that he thought Dr. Petit and the children were already dead when he returned from teh bank was easily shown to be false by the prosecution. Yet, the doctor continued to say that he still believes Steven. If you let this guy got life in prison, how long will it be before he is able to talk another prison pyschologist, and parol board into letting him out? He knew the girls werent dead, he told the police right after the arrest that the girls were in there alive. he told them he saw that Michaela had changed clothes (after her shower) not that she was dead. He indicated that he poured gasoline upstairs, so he clearly had to see the girls alive.

Native New Yorker
10-29-2010, 12:31 AM
and, as has been mentioned before, he ran out the house wearing a trophy ( Hayley's team hat) laughing loudly...
what does THAT say about his state of mind concerning the crimes?
Remorse? NOT.
Evil and despicable.

jjenny
10-29-2010, 12:32 AM
How exactly could the girls have been dead? Wasn't the testimony is that they died from smoke inhalation. Well the fire was set some time after Hayes returned into the house, and it doesn't take long for fire to spread. If the shrink really believes what Hayes told him then I have a bridge for sale I'd like him to buy.

Native New Yorker
10-29-2010, 12:57 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/29/nyregion/29cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/29/nyregion/29cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss)

a good summary from the New York Times.

jilly
10-29-2010, 10:32 AM
Agreed Jilly. It sounds like growing up that Steven really emotionally tortured his little brother and allowed his little brother to be beaten for things that steven did. I also wondered where Hayes family was during this. I later learned that his mother was deceased, but still wondered about teh brother and children etc. Now we know. To be honest, this testimony today didnt help Hayes. It showed how he has always allowed otehrs to take his punishment for him, seemed to have NO remorse, and that he was apparently even able to fool the defense phyciatrist. The doctors testimony that steven told him that he thought Dr. Petit and the children were already dead when he returned from teh bank was easily shown to be false by the prosecution. Yet, the doctor continued to say that he still believes Steven. If you let this guy got life in prison, how long will it be before he is able to talk another prison pyschologist, and parol board into letting him out? He knew the girls werent dead, he told the police right after the arrest that the girls were in there alive. he told them he saw that Michaela had changed clothes (after her shower) not that she was dead. He indicated that he poured gasoline upstairs, so he clearly had to see the girls alive.

Imagine being a child and admitted to a hospital for 2 weeks to see if you are a bad seed when your brother is bullying you.

You're right. So many lies to the psychologist and in the end it seems that the main reason he believed steven was because he was "consistent". Yeah - with his lies! Unreal. Another psychologist duped.

PrairieWind
10-29-2010, 06:09 PM
I was out today, was there any additional testimony?

Native New Yorker
10-30-2010, 12:29 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/30/nyregion/30cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

JoeFromLB
10-30-2010, 12:47 AM
According to the NY Times story, there is only one remaining alternate juror.

That's cutting it close.

jjenny
10-30-2010, 01:58 PM
According to the NY Times story, there is only one remaining alternate juror.

That's cutting it close.

Since deliberations are expected to start next week hopefully it will be over soon without any more jurors departing. I am sure the judge couldn't leave her in after she made her comments or defense would use this as grounds for an appeal.

Cher352
10-30-2010, 03:09 PM
Brother of Conn. triple killer: Don't kill self

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) - Shortly after Steven Hayes was charged with killing a woman and her two daughters during a night of terror in their home in 2007, his brother called him a monster who could be hanged for his crimes..........


http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13411190

Cher352
10-30-2010, 03:23 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/30/nyregion/30cheshire.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

" A juror on the panel deciding whether to impose the death penalty in the home-invasion murders of a mother and her two daughters in Cheshire, Conn., was dismissed on Friday after making a derogatory comment in court about the defense. "

I think I would have the same problem...eek!

Cher352
10-30-2010, 03:26 PM
Since deliberations are expected to start next week hopefully it will be over soon without any more jurors departing. I am sure the judge couldn't leave her in after she made her comments or defense would use this as grounds for an appeal.

Let's hope so! I would hate to see it come this far only to have to start over. That is what I don't like about having a separate penalty phase part of the trial, it takes so long!

Cher352
10-30-2010, 04:14 PM
Letter by Matthew Hayes, brother of Steve, submitted to prosecution.

I found this letter to be very sad and disturbing. My heart goes out to Matthew.

I think this will seal it for the DP.

http://nhregister.com/articles/2010/10/28/news/doc4cc9edf3e7c2d948445371.txt

OMG...that letter is chilling. It would be a miracle, IMO, if any of the children of that family were not deeply scarred by Hayes behavior growing up.

Cher352
10-30-2010, 04:18 PM
I was out today, was there any additional testimony?

You didn't miss anything as there was no court on Friday.

Final arguments in the penalty phase of his trial are scheduled for Monday.

jjenny
10-31-2010, 08:59 AM
" A juror on the panel deciding whether to impose the death penalty in the home-invasion murders of a mother and her two daughters in Cheshire, Conn., was dismissed on Friday after making a derogatory comment in court about the defense. "

I think I would have the same problem...eek!

I am certain I would have the same problem. But NOT a good idea for someone on a jury.
With the trial almost over, why couldn't the juror hold his or her tongue just a little bit longer?

PrairieWind
11-01-2010, 11:07 AM
Let's hope so! I would hate to see it come this far only to have to start over. That is what I don't like about having a separate penalty phase part of the trial, it takes so long!

Normally the penalty phase doesnt get dragged out this long. Because of the volotility of these cases and the emotions, the court really needs to keep them moving quickly. The trial should have moved to penalty phase the day after the verdicts and continue everyday, saturdays included, until completion.

PrairieWind
11-01-2010, 11:21 AM
Well Dr. Goldsmith finally done, but now there will be documents read to the jury today, and then tomorrow the state will have 3 rebuttal witnesses. So I would say best case scenario would be closing arguments not until wednesday

PrairieWind
11-01-2010, 12:06 PM
So closing now looking like it would be Thursday. Tons of documents being admitted now. Defense wants to admit letters written by defense cousnel to prosecution wanting to plead guilty in exchange for life w/o parol. Can't believe that would be admissible. Then a letter from Hayes to his son. An attempt to humanize Hayes.

JoeFromLB
11-01-2010, 12:39 PM
The sole remaining alternate juror was almost dismissed this morning for trying to pass a note to a courtroom marshal. She apparently has a romantic interest in him. The marshal has been reassigned.
Unbelievable!

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-hayes-final-testimony-1102-20101101,0,5398212.story

NEW HAVEN — The final alternate juror in the Steven Hayes trial will be allowed to stay on the case despite an apparent personal interest in a court marshal, Superior Court Judge Jon C. Blue decided this morning.

The jury, which started with 12 regular jurors, six alternates and two substitutes, has been depleted and is now down to the 12-member jury and a single alternate.

"Believe me, if I could spare you embarrassment I would," Blue told the alternate. He thought about excusing her, he said, "but frankly we need you."

PrairieWind
11-01-2010, 12:47 PM
Letter to son is read in. Hayes blaming drugs for his ruined life and the way he has ruined other lives. Tells his son he loves him. This, in my opinion, is best chance for defense to avoid death sentence. I dont really think that most of the pyschiatric evidence offered in death cases is very effective for juries, unless is shows real abuse, etc. But evidence like this letter would seem more effective. But I guess the jury could also say, Hayes is just going to do something else along the line and further hurt his son.

PrairieWind
11-01-2010, 01:06 PM
The sole remaining alternate juror was almost dismissed this morning for trying to pass a note to a courtroom marshal. She apparently has a romantic interest in him. The marshal has been reassigned.
Unbelievable!

http://www.courant.com/community/cheshire/cheshire-home-invasion/hc-hayes-final-testimony-1102-20101101,0,5398212.story

NEW HAVEN — The final alternate juror in the Steven Hayes trial will be allowed to stay on the case despite an apparent personal interest in a court marshal, Superior Court Judge Jon C. Blue decided this morning.

The jury, which started with 12 regular jurors, six alternates and two substitutes, has been depleted and is now down to the 12-member jury and a single alternate.

"Believe me, if I could spare you embarrassment I would," Blue told the alternate. He thought about excusing her, he said, "but frankly we need you."

Thats just amazing!!! People, you have to read that article. its crazy. The judge read the note aloud and then called the juror in to answer!! First of all, that was a totally stupid thing for her to do. Second, I bet she is soooo freakin embarassed . Seriously, I dont think it could jeopardize anything, no bias or anything and the meeting apparently didnt happen. But can you image, "Hey kids, your mom and I met at a death penalty case..." Hilarious.

Velouria
11-02-2010, 12:58 PM
Then a letter from Hayes to his son. An attempt to humanize Hayes.

:boohoo:

Isn't it nice that Hayes still has a son to write a letter to? That some animal like himself hasn't come along and murdered him just for kicks?

PrairieWind
11-02-2010, 12:59 PM
http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/2010/09/live-updates-on-twitter-from-t.html

scrabble
11-02-2010, 01:22 PM
What an example he is for his son.

Velouria
11-02-2010, 01:36 PM
I can't recall ever reading a more powerful letter than that of Matthew Hayes. Intelligently written and brutally honest, it left me absolutely stunned.

If this doesn't seal the prosecution's case for the death penalty, I don't see what could. Without a doubt, Steven Hayes is a textbook example of a psychopath, with no capacity for empathy or redemption. He and Komisarjevsky were a perfect storm of pure evil.

PrairieWind
11-02-2010, 03:07 PM
I agree Velouria. That letter just leaves you feeling sick. What struck me most about it, and what I hope the jury takes from it, is Hayes ability to pass blame for his actions to others. Furthermore, he has always been violent. He has victimized is own brother, his mother, the petits, countless others. Who would be next? In spite of what is in that letter and the facts of this case, the defense pschiatrist has still been fooled by Hayes. I hope the jury finally says "enough is enough."

Velouria
11-02-2010, 05:39 PM
Prairie, from what I read of his report, Dr. Goldsmith spent a total of about 36 hours interviewing Hayes, and based his diagnosis on those meetings, along with his review of letters, sentencing reports, etc. And honestly, on the surface, that seems like a lot. However, all of that source material was all taken from the last 10-12 years or so of Hayes' life. How can you possibly predict the likelihood of recidivism on a such a small portion of the individual's history, when that individual has literally spent a lifetime engaged in criminal behavior?

I'd say Matthew Hayes was far more qualified to render an opinion, with or without an impressive CV. And the picture he paints of Steven Hayes is that of a man without conscience, empathy, or self-control, not to mention a loathsome, cowardly bully with a sadistic streak a mile wide. How you could possibly argue that this man poses no serious threat while incarcerated is incomprehensible to me - for any amount of money. :mad:

If Dr. Goldsmith truly believes that Hayes is "riddled with guilt" and deeply concerned for the Petit family, then he's a fool, a quack, or both.

Velouria
11-02-2010, 05:47 PM
"Believe me, if I could spare you embarrassment I would," Blue told the alternate. He thought about excusing her, he said, "but frankly we need you."

I don't know about you Joe, but I'd say she DESERVED to be embarrassed. Compared to the heartache and indignities the Hawke and Petit families have suffered these weeks, embarrassment schmaressment! You can't tell me she didn't realize what she did was out of line. To have to declare a mistrial because this woman can't control her amorous impulses would be inexcusable.

JoeFromLB
11-02-2010, 06:48 PM
Yes, it was incredbly stupid for her to pass a "love note" to a courtoom marshal in the midst of a death penalty trial. I hope the jury can reach a decision before any more juror hijinks occur.

This reminded me of the juror who fell in love with Richard Ramirez, the vicious serial killer dubbed the "Night Stalker", who murdered at least 14 people in the L.A. area back in the early 1980's. She replaced an alternate juror, and proceeded to send him a cupcake with the message "I love you". I don't recall what eventually happened to her, but Ramirez ended up marrying a different woman while on Death row.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/s_k_groupies/6.html

PrairieWind
11-03-2010, 01:23 PM
http://blogs.courant.com/helen_ubinas/2010/09/live-updates-on-twitter-from-t.html

twitter

Salem
11-04-2010, 12:19 AM
Please continue here: GUILTY 3 Die After 2 Men Break Into Home of Petit Family- Hayes GUILTY 16 of 17 counts #2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community.

If there are posts you would like moved over, just let me know.

Salem