West Memphis Three - Thread No. 3

[Jeana (DP)]

Please continue on.

I haven't had the opportunity today to do any new reading, but I've made some notes on my book and thought that I could at least open a dialogue about some things that caught my eye. I apologize in advance because my notes ramble and instead of being nice and sorted, they follow the book.

Here goes:

Mrs. Byers had suspicions that her son, Chris, had a change in personality and even went so far as to ask him if he had been molested. He denied this. (p. 114).


There was an incident about three months before the murders when Chris told his mother that a man had been taking photographs of him skateboarding (p. 115).

All three boys made claims about odd occurrences in the woods. Such as painting of faces, chanting, smoking weed, sexual acts, mutilation of animals, graffiti and cases of vandalism (p. 27).

Aaron Hutcheson was denied permission by his mother to play with the boys that day, but reports: laughing, drinking, and abuse of others (possibly the boys), including shouting, struggling and crying (pp. 27-28).

When Mark Byers returned from court with Ryan to find Chris missing, he was angry and told Ryan to skateboard around and see if he could find Chris. When Ryan returned with no information, Byers took a vehicle accompanied by Mrs. Byers and Ryan. During this ride, they ran into neighbors who claim they saw the boys entering the woods. Its now 7:30 p.m. They spoted a police vehicle and stopped to ask for help finding the boys. The cop said to wait until about 8:00 p.m. and to call the station if no sign of the boys (pp. 29-30). They head home and, at about 8:00 p.m., they begin to make telephone calls to Crittenden's Sheriff's office. (pp. 30-31).

During a conversation with a neighborhood children, they claim they saw the boys at approx. 6:30 entering the woods near Fourteenth Street; however, they claim that there were 4 boys, not 3). (p. 33).

Ryan, searching the woods with Ritchey and Robbie claim they heard 4 very loud "splashes) in the water an area they call "Ten-Mile Bayou" and being scared, they ran. (pp. 35-36).

[Jeana (DP)]

Continuing:

at approximately 9:30 the evening of the murders, Narlene Hollingsworth received a call from her friend Dixie Hubbard, who needed a ride home from work. Narlene, her husband Ricky, two sons, two daughters and a family friend piled into her Ford Escort and traveled toward Lakeshore Estates trailer park toward the Flash Market laundrymat. There, two shadowy figures appeared on the road ahead. They were walking away from Robin Hood Hills. As they got closer they were identified as Damien and Domini. They were dirty and muddy. (p. 40).

In conversations over the next couple of days, it was discovered that L.G. Hollingsworth was also in the area of the laundrymat in a strange car and washed muddy clothing. (p. 40).

At approx. 10:35 p.m., what looked like two sets of bicycle tracks were discovered. (pp. 41-42). Others gathered to aid in the search, but at approx. 2:00 a.m., they were told to go home and the search would resume in the morning. (p. 43). However, Byers continued to search, looking at empty houses and automobiles in the neighborhood. At approx. 3:00 a.m., he went home and sat up, waiting for daylight. (p. 43).

The search resumed at approximately 6:00 the following morning by the various family members, while police attending a briefing at the P.D. at 8:00 a.m. (Pp. 44-45).

As the day advanced, a boy's tennis shoe was spotted floating in the water. He descended the bank and noticed two small black tennis shoes in the water. Upon closer inspection, Michael Moore's body was finally found. (P. 50). Minutes later, more clothing and the body of Stevie Branch was found. (P. 53). A few feet from Stevie, the body of Chris Byers was found). (P. 54).

[Jeana (DP)]

For this post, I'll have to go back and forth:

Damien's Violent History:

In 1991, Damien started a relationship with a 15-year old and that relationship turned sexual. Her family objected and made it difficult for them to see one another. They made a "suicide pact." On March 3, 1992, she broke up with Damien because of her mother's pressure and his increasingly obsessive, moody attitude toward her. Shortly thereafter, Damien's behavior became obsessive and bizarre. He jumped her new boyfriend at school threatening to tear his eyes out. On March 6th, Damien told his ex-girlfriend he would kill her new boyfriend and burn her house down. Over the next few months, they rekindled their relationship, over the objections of her parents. On May 19th, her mother called the police to report her as a runaway. Later the two were found hiding in a closet at a friend's house. Echols was charged with burglary and sexual misconduct. He was ordered to remain at Juvenile detention. Later, he began dating Domini Teer, who was 16 at the time. He ultimately began spending most of his time living with Domini and her mother, Dian. (p. 87).

Damien's sister, Michelle, began to date Jason Baldwin. She was 16 at that time. The relationship lasted little more than a week, but was never consumated. During this time period, however, another friend of Damien, Jessie Misskelley, made rude sexual advances toward her on the school bus. She never had anything to do with him, however. (p. 88).

Those describing Damien during this time period said he was "bright, sarcastic, cynical, didn't like people, didn't trust people, obnoxious, intimidating. Before he was kicked out of school, he was in constant trouble and at one point had been suspended seven times. He fought. He spat on a teacher, he started a fire. He appeared to be violent, but he never argued. He tried to give the appearance of a "menacing specter." He enjoyed reading and music. He began to engage in the religeon of Wicca. (Pp. 90-92).

The day after the discovery of the bodies, police searched Damien's home. They found Damien's boots and a pair of tennis shoes. Both were caked in mud. (P. 95.)

During a review of books regarding the occult, they noted that a practice of the occult sometimes involved urinating into a victim's mouth (you'll remember that urine was found in two of the boys' stomachs). (P. 95).

On June 1, 1992, Damien was placed on a year's probation and sent to Charter Hospital in Little Rock (a mental facility). During one entry in his journal, Damien said that he hates people and that they need to "just shut the hell up and die a slow horrible painful death." During a conversation with staff, Damien recounted chasing a younger child with an ax and attempting to set a house on fire. He also relayed to staff that he spoke about is poor school attendance and being so disruptive that he was suspended seven times that year alone. He was released from the hospital on June 25). Upon his release, he went to live with his biological father, Joe Hutchison in Oregon. (Pp. 104-105.)

While living in Oregon, he admitted to a friend that he carried a huge survivalists knife in the pockets of his raincoat. On September 2nd, Damien and his father got into a huge fight because Damien demanded more freedom. Damien, believed to be suicidial and violent, was taken to St. Vincent's Hospital in Portland. There, he became delusional and paranoid, screaming at his father that he would "eat him alive." A search of Damien's bedroom revealed three knives, each with a strap to secure them to his body. His parents, believing him to be violent, agreed with his wishes and sent him back to Arkansas just days later. This out of state move apparently violated his probation and he was taken into custody by police and returned to custody of the Juvenile Detention Center in Jonesboro (even though he had just turned 18). While in the recreation area shortly after his arrival, he sucked the blood and wound of another patient. The next day before a judge, the judge opined that Damien needed mental health treatment. On September 4th, Damien was returned to Charter Hospital in Little Rock for his second stay that year. He remained there for a mere two weeks. (Pp. 106-109).

more to come

[the original tez]

Jeana, this is the first I have heard about the older brother being told to get on his skateboard and go look for Chris. Of course, I read the book you are now reading a very long time ago, and my memory isn't what it used to be! I know that the older boy's statement to LE and John Mark Byers's statement varied greatly about the later times that they were supposedly searching for Chris and the others. I'm still really suspicious of Byers, in these deaths and that of his wife Melissa.

I need to reread the book you are reading, I have to see if the library has it.

I just finished "The Boys on the Tracks." That was a very good read, it is by the same author who wrote "Devil's Knot."

BTW, thanks for starting the new thread!!!!!:blowkiss:

[Nova]

http://www.wm3.org/live/evidence/browse_evidence.php?action=sort&sort_by=5#


That link has the autopsies you requested.

There is nothing that suggests urine was found in the victims' stomachs. On the contrary, the autopsies say there was "nothing unusual" about stomach contents; I'm assuming that even in Arkansas, urine in the stomach is considered "unusual." And that's just one problem with the book.

Blood of Innocents is a quickie, tabloid-style true crime book. It reports every scrap of town gossip the reporter could collect, and without the benefit of much investigation.

(ETA: That is NOT to say I don't appreciate you summarizing parts for us, Jeana. Rumor and gossip were very much part of the eventual trial. And BOI gets something right now and then. Thank you very much for refreshing our memories.)

[the original tez]

I remember the rumor about urine being found in one of the boys' stomachs. Then, I remember that the ME said no, that wasn't so.

This whole investigation was a cluster fluck from the word GO! I just now realized that none of the boys' families were never really questioned until approximately two weeks after the murders! What kind of investigation is that? Usually LE talks to the people closest to the victims and works outward from there.

[Jeana (DP)]

http://www.wm3.org/live/evidence/browse_evidence.php?action=sort&sort_by=5#


That link has the autopsies you requested.

There is nothing that suggests urine was found in the victims' stomachs. On the contrary, the autopsies say there was "nothing unusual" about stomach contents; I'm assuming that even in Arkansas, urine in the stomach is considered "unusual." And that's just one problem with the book.

Blood of Innocents is a quickie, tabloid-style true crime book. It reports every scrap of town gossip the reporter could collect, and without the benefit of much investigation.

(ETA: That is NOT to say I don't appreciate you summarizing parts for us, Jeana. Rumor and gossip were very much part of the eventual trial. And BOI gets something right now and then. Thank you very much for refreshing our memories.)



Thanks Nova~!!~ I agree that the book's contents could and most likely are not verifiable and that's why I REALLY want to see the transcripts of the trial. There really is no other way to hear what both sides say about a given topic.

By the way, I had much more to go, but am second guessing my taking the time to do so now.

[Nova]

Thanks Nova~!!~ I agree that the book's contents could and most likely are not verifiable and that's why I REALLY want to see the transcripts of the trial. There really is no other way to hear what both sides say about a given topic.

By the way, I had much more to go, but am second guessing my taking the time to do so now.

I assume you mean "second guessing" the time it takes to excerpt and post. (IIRC, it doesn't take long to read BOI.)

I don't blame you and I don't think you are obligated. I will certainly read and respond to anything you post, but I don't think you owe anyone a full digest of the book.

[Jeana (DP)]

I assume you mean "second guessing" the time it takes to excerpt and post. (IIRC, it doesn't take long to read BOI.)

I don't blame you and I don't think you are obligated. I will certainly read and respond to anything you post, but I don't think you owe anyone a full digest of the book.

Well you asked why my opinion was that they're guilty and I was going to try and be as thorough as possible and the things I posted were leading up to how I made my decision. Considering that I don't have the luxury of being able to prove or disprove anything in the materials that we're privy to, it may be a big waste of my time.

[Nova]

Well you asked why my opinion was that they're guilty and I was going to try and be as thorough as possible and the things I posted were leading up to how I made my decision. Considering that I don't have the luxury of being able to prove or disprove anything in the materials that we're privy to, it may be a big waste of my time.

I completely understand. Maybe you'd like to summarize what you find most convincing. I will almost certainly argue, (:)), but I promise I won't say, "But you didn't cite that!" Especially since I can't find my book to review the case.

[Jeana (DP)]

I completely understand. Maybe you'd like to summarize what you find most convincing. I will almost certainly argue, (:)), but I promise I won't say, "But you didn't cite that!" Especially since I can't find my book to review the case.

Unfortunately, it was the totality of everything that I had seen or read that made me believe that they were guilty. There was no smoking gun.

[Nova]

Unfortunately, it was the totality of everything that I had seen or read that made me believe that they were guilty. There was no smoking gun.

I wish I could convince you to read Devil's Knot. Might not change your mind about the guilt of the WM3, but I bet it would at least convince you there was a miscarriage of justice in their trial.

I'll try to condense my thoughts to a few key points and maybe we can compare notes that way. (I.e., I'll show you mine if you show me... well, you know. Have a great weekend, my friend! :blowkiss: )

[Jeana (DP)]

I wish I could convince you to read Devil's Knot. Might not change your mind about the guilt of the WM3, but I bet it would at least convince you there was a miscarriage of justice in their trial.

I'll try to condense my thoughts to a few key points and maybe we can compare notes that way. (I.e., I'll show you mine if you show me... well, you know. Have a great weekend, my friend! :blowkiss: )

I'd be happy to read it. I'll take a look around the local bookstores this weekend and see if I can find it.

(Darlin, I've been waiting for years to show you mine)!:blowkiss: ;) ;)

[kazzbar]

Hi Everyone..
I have been wondering if it is possible that the young boys had met Damian and his gang in the woods before..
maybe talked to them and hung out with the them..
I know there is no evidence to support this but I was just thinking about it.
What made me wonder was something that Jeana had typed regarding strange goings on in the woods e.g drinking and dead small animals.
Although 8 year olds are not good at keeping secrets..if they thought they were part of some mysterious adventure they may have kept quiet.
I just feel that Damian and his posse' were no strangers to that area and probably skulked around there a bit.
I find it hard to believe that they just chanced on those 3 kids that day..
Could they have been 'stalking' those 3 for a while? Bare in my mind this is the half of me that thinks they are guilty saying this, whilst the not guilty half sits in conflict..:silenced:
I wonder how many other kids went off into those woods to play? Was it common for kids in the area to go there?
Knowing what I know now I would never let my kids just ride off into woods!
I also seem to remember that the area the bodies were found in was searched earlier that evening and that a police officer did not see them in the water, if in fact they were there at that time.
Was the mud on Damians boots ever matched to that area?.. I guess it would not help much either way tho.

[the original tez]

Hi Everyone..
I have been wondering if it is possible that the young boys had met Damian and his gang in the woods before..
maybe talked to them and hung out with the them..
I know there is no evidence to support this but I was just thinking about it.
What made me wonder was something that Jeana had typed regarding strange goings on in the woods e.g drinking and dead small animals.
Although 8 year olds are not good at keeping secrets..if they thought they were part of some mysterious adventure they may have kept quiet.
I just feel that Damian and his posse' were no strangers to that area and probably skulked around there a bit.
I find it hard to believe that they just chanced on those 3 kids that day..
Could they have been 'stalking' those 3 for a while? Bare in my mind this is the half of me that thinks they are guilty saying this, whilst the not guilty half sits in conflict..:silenced:
I wonder how many other kids went off into those woods to play? Was it common for kids in the area to go there?
Knowing what I know now I would never let my kids just ride off into woods!
I also seem to remember that the area the bodies were found in was searched earlier that evening and that a police officer did not see them in the water, if in fact they were there at that time.
Was the mud on Damians boots ever matched to that area?.. I guess it would not help much either way tho.

Kazzbar,

I can only answer this question right now....No, nothing was ever matched to Damian's boots. There is no forensic evidence to tie Damian or the other two to the site where the bodies where recovered.

I'm going to the library today and I'm going to get "Devil's Knot" again. I need to order it at the bookstore, but I don't have the funds to do that right now. I am also going to see if BOI is there. Hopefully, it is too.

Jeana, you are doing a wonderful job of showing the points that you think lead to the guilt of the WM3. I enjoy reading your posts, because they make me look at things from another POV.

If I am able to check out "Devil's Knot" this morning, I will post the relevant points that I think point to reasonable doubt involving the WM3, plus I will post about the problems with the "Cult and Occult" expert. (I should be able to get "Devil's Knot," I just hope my granddaughter will cooperate with me today! LOL)

[kazzbar]

I have been looking at buying ' devils knot' on ebay but it is about 12.00 US money and the same for postage to Australia...so you will all have to bare with me until I get the money to buy it...
I really want to read it..
I have been pondering this case I saw the Paradise Lost films...
Now I am thinking about it just about all the time..I am becoming obsessed.
Last night I trawled the internet and mention was made on one site about a necklace of Damians that had blood on it...
I also read the young fellas autopsy reports..
Horrible reading but it made me wonder how long the attack took to cause so much damage to their poor bodies.
At no time was urine mentioned in anyones stomache..:sick:

[Nova]

Hi Everyone..
I have been wondering if it is possible that the young boys had met Damian and his gang in the woods before..
maybe talked to them and hung out with the them..
I know there is no evidence to support this but I was just thinking about it.
What made me wonder was something that Jeana had typed regarding strange goings on in the woods e.g drinking and dead small animals.
Although 8 year olds are not good at keeping secrets..if they thought they were part of some mysterious adventure they may have kept quiet.
I just feel that Damian and his posse' were no strangers to that area and probably skulked around there a bit.
I find it hard to believe that they just chanced on those 3 kids that day..
Could they have been 'stalking' those 3 for a while? Bare in my mind this is the half of me that thinks they are guilty saying this, whilst the not guilty half sits in conflict..:silenced:
I wonder how many other kids went off into those woods to play? Was it common for kids in the area to go there?
Knowing what I know now I would never let my kids just ride off into woods!
I also seem to remember that the area the bodies were found in was searched earlier that evening and that a police officer did not see them in the water, if in fact they were there at that time.
Was the mud on Damians boots ever matched to that area?.. I guess it would not help much either way tho.

(Emphasis added.) Kazzbar, I don't doubt that the Robin Hood woods were used as a "getaway" place by all sorts of kids (and maybe adults as well).

But there really isn't any evidence that Damian had a "posse." He and Jason were friends, but surely we'd have something more than vague whisps of gossip if Damian and Jason had been holding regular "meetings" in the woods.

[the original tez]

(Emphasis added.) Kazzbar, I don't doubt that the Robin Hood woods were used as a "getaway" place by all sorts of kids (and maybe adults as well).

But there really isn't any evidence that Damian had a "posse." He and Jason were friends, but surely we'd have something more than vague whisps of gossip if Damian and Jason had been holding regular "meetings" in the woods.

From what I have read, Damian's only "real" friend was Jason. I don't think Damian had a lot of friends.

I was able to get "Devil' Knot" at the library Saturday, but I haven't had time to read and post, because RL has intruded!:banghead: :doh: I will try to get to it today. My library doesn't have BOI.

[Nova]

From what I have read, Damian's only "real" friend was Jason. I don't think Damian had a lot of friends....


And no wonder! He was shuffled back and forth between Arkansas and Oregon (IIRC) during his difficult "teen" years. A big part of Damian's problem was that he was very much a loner and, as a defense, embraced behavior that only increased his isolation.

The testimony of Hutcheson and Miskelly about attending satanic rituals with Damian turned out to be complete fictions.

[the original tez]

And no wonder! He was shuffled back and forth between Arkansas and Oregon (IIRC) during his difficult "teen" years. A big part of Damian's problem was that he was very much a loner and, as a defense, embraced behavior that only increased his isolation.

The testimony of Hutcheson and Miskelly about attending satanic rituals with Damian turned out to be complete fictions.

In my ever-so humble opinion, Hutcheson (the mother) should be prosecuted for perjury. The son was probably fed information by his mother to keep her sorry behind out of jail. His stories kept getting more incredible, so incredible, in fact, I don't think he even testified at either trial, did he?

[Nova]

In my ever-so humble opinion, Hutcheson (the mother) should be prosecuted for perjury. The son was probably fed information by his mother to keep her sorry behind out of jail. His stories kept getting more incredible, so incredible, in fact, I don't think he even testified at either trial, did he?

I believe the police discounted Aaron's account entirely. It was simply too incredible.

The Mother is no more believable.

[the original tez]

I believe the police discounted Aaron's account entirely. It was simply too incredible.

The Mother is no more believable.

That's what I thought about Aaron's account.

The mother needed to be prosecuted for perjury. I think the SOL has run out though. I remember when reading Devil's Knot the last time that she called the defense investigator and said she lied on the stand. I am paraphrasing, but that is basically what she meant.

[kcksum]

let us not forget that bite marks on the boys bodies did not match the impressions of any of the men behind bars. Devils knot is a fascinating book as is the west memphis three web site. I believe these guys definately deserve a new trial with all of the evidence submitted before an unbiased jury.
I believe the jury should have heard about the disoriented and bloody individual who wandered into burger king that morning. I believe thejury should have heard that no blood samples from burger king were taken or if they were they were no where to be found. That's reasonable doubt for me right there.

[kazzbar]

let us not forget that bite marks on the boys bodies did not match the impressions of any of the men behind bars. Devils knot is a fascinating book as is the west memphis three web site. I believe these guys definately deserve a new trial with all of the evidence submitted before an unbiased jury.
I believe the jury should have heard about the disoriented and bloody individual who wandered into burger king that morning. I believe thejury should have heard that no blood samples from burger king were taken or if they were they were no where to be found. That's reasonable doubt for me right there.
I find it just amazing that a person could walk into a Bojangles Restaurant in a state of such dishevellment and obviously covered in blood and as I have read, faeces and the Police just let this lead just slip by. Sounds like total incompetance to me ...let alone the fact that they took some samples and 'lost' them. Just this alone reeks of a totally inadequate police force or one that did in fact have lead but just screwed up...By the time the Echols investigation was going on no-body was interested in the restaurant man.
I read that the boys bodies were found not far from a truck wash... was this ever followed up.. Maybe the kids were killed in the back of a truck then dumped. Although lack of footprints or tyre tracks near the murder scene probably rules this 'scenario' mute. What do you all think?
I would like to know more about Mr Bojangles... he is an interesting side plot..

[tennessee]

The truth is that the West Memphis PD bungled this case from the get go. They were under investigation for more than one thing at the time and were pressured to solve this fast and deflect negative attention from themselves.

The man at Bojangle's should have been sought out immediately.

These three men deserve a new trial, in a new location, with all of the evidence presented. Let an unbiased jury hear it and make the decision.

[the original tez]

The truth is that the West Memphis PD bungled this case from the get go. They were under investigation for more than one thing at the time and were pressured to solve this fast and deflect negative attention from themselves.

The man at Bojangle's should have been sought out immediately.

These three men deserve a new trial, in a new location, with all of the evidence presented. Let an unbiased jury hear it and make the decision.

Amen, tennessee! They do need a new trial, especially in light of the DNA evidence. Personally, I thought the bite evidence would have been enough to get them a new trial, but obviously I was mistaken.

And double AMEN about the WM PD. They were under investigation about missing drugs, guns, and money. These murders couldn't have happened at a better time for the WM PD. All the charges and investigations went away when this happened. Just like Byers' charge for stealing the Rolex watches from UPS. It went away when the murders happened, after he admitted, "he made a mistake." Yeah, a $12,500 mistake! Geez, I'd still be in prison if I made that kind of "mistake."

[Nova]

That's what I thought about Aaron's account.

The mother needed to be prosecuted for perjury. I think the SOL has run out though. I remember when reading Devil's Knot the last time that she called the defense investigator and said she lied on the stand. I am paraphrasing, but that is basically what she meant.

Yes, she recanted after the trial.

Who would have/could have prosecuted her for perjury? The prosecutor could not, because he is still maintaining her testimony was true and the convictions were good.

[Nova]

...I would like to know more about Mr Bojangles... he is an interesting side plot..

He is indeed interesting and maybe not just a "side" plot. But how will we ever know?

(ETA: I am NOT one of those who believe LE has to track down every obscure alternative raised by a defense counsel, no matter how unlikely. But bloody and disheveled in the vicinity of the crime? That should have been a no brainer.)

[the original tez]

Yes, she recanted after the trial.

Who would have/could have prosecuted her for perjury? The prosecutor could not, because he is still maintaining her testimony was true and the convictions were good.

I know there was no one who would have or could have prosecuted her for perjury. Just wishful thinking I guess.

I am currently reading Chapter 1 of Devil's Knot. I am going to make notes and then post them here as I go.

[kazzbar]

He is indeed interesting and maybe not just a "side" plot. But how will we ever know?

(ETA: I am NOT one of those who believe LE has to track down every obscure alternative raised by a defense counsel, no matter how unlikely. But bloody and disheveled in the vicinity of the crime? That should have been a no brainer.)Yes, Nova perhaps Mr Bonjangles was more than an interesting side plot..we may never know any more about him...he did deserve further investigation and to not do so just shows how one-eyed the police investigation was about to become.
I wonder if Mr echols was a 'suspect' that early in the case? We all know why he could possibly have been...just looking 'different' seems to be enough..what century is this town in? Anyone seen 'The Village' ?

[the original tez]

Yes, Nova perhaps Mr Bonjangles was more than an interesting side plot..we may never know any more about him...he did deserve further investigation and to not do so just shows how one-eyed the police investigation was about to become.
I wonder if Mr echols was a 'suspect' that early in the case? We all know why he could possibly have been...just looking 'different' seems to be enough..what century is this town in? Anyone seen 'The Village' ?

Yes, Damien was a suspect early on courtesy of Mr. Driver who was his juvenile probation officer. Mr. Driver is the one who was said to be the occult and cult expert. Of course, he got his degree from a mail-order college. And then later on, it was found that he embezzled over 30 grand from his employer, the county.

The town is probably in the same century as the Salem Witch Trials, the 1600s!

[Nova]

Yes, Nova perhaps Mr Bonjangles was more than an interesting side plot..we may never know any more about him...he did deserve further investigation and to not do so just shows how one-eyed the police investigation was about to become.
I wonder if Mr echols was a 'suspect' that early in the case? We all know why he could possibly have been...just looking 'different' seems to be enough..what century is this town in? Anyone seen 'The Village' ?

Echols was a suspect immediately. His parole officer was at the scene shortly after the bodies were discovered said: "I only know one person weird enough to do something like this: Damian Echols."

The focus on Echols began at that moment. However, there was (and is) no evidence against him until the rumor mill churned for awhile and a confession was dictated to Jessie Miskelly.

(ETA: Oops! I should have known tez would answer first and with better detail. Doesn't she always? :))

[the original tez]

Echols was a suspect immediately. His parole officer was at the scene shortly after the bodies were discovered said: "I only know one person weird enough to do something like this: Damian Echols."

The focus on Echols began at that moment. However, there was (and is) no evidence against him until the rumor mill churned for awhile and a confession was dictated to Jessie Miskelly.

(ETA: Oops! I should have known tez would answer first and with better detail. Doesn't she always? :))

No, Nova, you are better at details than I am! In fact, you added so many more details than I could have! Thank you, my friend!:blowkiss:

[Taximom]

I just saw this thread and wonder what I've missed. Netflix recommended two movies about this subject as movies I'd like. Go figure, right?! So I'm watching the movies soon(documentaries I'm assuming) and then I'm going to come back here and get the REAL scoop! :D

[the original tez]

I just saw this thread and wonder what I've missed. Netflix recommended two movies about this subject as movies I'd like. Go figure, right?! So I'm watching the movies soon(documentaries I'm assuming) and then I'm going to come back here and get the REAL scoop! :D

Paradise Lost right? I haven't been able to see them. I'd like to see them someday. My local video store doesn't have them. The store won't even order them....But, look at where I live, LOL.:eek:

[tennessee]

Paradise Lost right? I haven't been able to see them. I'd like to see them someday. My local video store doesn't have them. The store won't even order them....But, look at where I live, LOL.:eek:

I would like to see these as well. If I can find them pretty soon, I'd be happy to send them to you. Let me go looksie and see if I can buy them anywhere.

[Taximom]

Paradise Lost right? I haven't been able to see them. I'd like to see them someday. My local video store doesn't have them. The store won't even order them....But, look at where I live, LOL.:eek:

LOL.

Our library actually had it but in video format. I'll wait for the DVD from Netflix. I hope you guys can watch it too and let me know what you think.

[kazzbar]

Paradise Lost right? I haven't been able to see them. I'd like to see them someday. My local video store doesn't have them. The store won't even order them....But, look at where I live, LOL.:eek:I saw it on cable television a few months back...It really shook me up and haunted me..I just chanced on it while I was channel surfing.
I had never heard of the case before..
It is a shame you cannot get it at your video store.

[the original tez]

I would like to see these as well. If I can find them pretty soon, I'd be happy to send them to you. Let me go looksie and see if I can buy them anywhere.

Thank you tennessee! I would greatly appreciate it.

[Jules]

Tez, I thought about you the past two weekends. We drove thru Arkansas on our way up to Northern Wisconsin. Almost stayed in West Memphis on the way back, but decided to make it to Little Rock.

:D

[Nova]

I broke down and bought another copy of Devil's Knot. I've only read the first four chapters, but there was a question above about whether John Mark Byers had time and access to commit the murders.

It depends on when the boys were killed.

On the day the bodies were discovered, Byers told a journalist that he had been out looking for the boys until 4:30 a.m. that morning.

Later, his older son, Ryan, told LE that Ryan had searched in the evening (even searching Robin Hood woods) until Byers sent him to bed around midnight. Ryan's account of searching was backed up by other kids who had helped him.

Byers later told a convoluted story about going to the truck stop with Ryan AFTER midnight, speaking to the truck stop owner and then searching in the woods immediately behind the truck stop (but not too deep into the brush because, according to Byers, he didn't have a flashlight).

Curiously, neither Byers nor Ryan were ever asked to explain the discrepancy in their stories.

If nothing else is clear, Byers was out and about that night. Which should scare anybody, whether or not he was involved in the murders.

(ETA: Aaron Hutcheson's FIRST story, the day after the murders, was that he had seen Michael Moore get into a maroon car with a strange black man who claimed Michael's mother had seent him. Several problems with this story: Aaron was later tested and determined to be color-blind. Moore lived next door to the school and wouldn't have needed a ride home from anyone. Moore's mother testified that Michael came home on time that day.

This was only the first of Aaron's stories claiming knowledge of the murders. His accounts were dismissed by LE, until they became useful in making the case LE wanted to make.)

[the original tez]

I broke down and bought another copy of Devil's Knot. I've only read the first four chapters, but there was a question above about whether John Mark Byers had time and access to commit the murders.

It depends on when the boys were killed.

On the day the bodies were discovered, Byers told a journalist that he had been out looking for the boys until 4:30 a.m. that morning.

Later, his older son, Ryan, told LE that Ryan had searched in the evening (even searching Robin Hood woods) until Byers sent him to bed around midnight. Ryan's account of searching was backed up by other kids who had helped him.

Byers later told a convoluted story about going to the truck stop with Ryan AFTER midnight, speaking to the truck stop owner and then searching in the woods immediately behind the truck stop (but not too deep into the brush because, according to Byers, he didn't have a flashlight).

Curiously, neither Byers nor Ryan were ever asked to explain the discrepancy in their stories.

If nothing else is clear, Byers was out and about that night. Which should scare anybody, whether or not he was involved in the murders.

(ETA: Aaron Hutcheson's FIRST story, the day after the murders, was that he had seen Michael Moore get into a maroon car with a strange black man who claimed Michael's mother had seent him. Several problems with this story: Aaron was later tested and determined to be color-blind. Moore lived next door to the school and wouldn't have needed a ride home from anyone. Moore's mother testified that Michael came home on time that day.

This was only the first of Aaron's stories claiming knowledge of the murders. His accounts were dismissed by LE, until they became useful in making the case LE wanted to make.)

Nova, I think the reason Byers wasn't too closely questioned was because he knew the things that were going on with the Drug Task Force. He should have been questioned first and foremost. None of the boys' families were questioned until a week or two after the murders. They should have been the first one questioned, isn't that the way it usually works? When Byers was finally questioned, they only asked him softball questions, even when he outright lied. He lied at least three different times about the knife that had the blood on it that he gave the HBO crew.

Aaron's stories just kept get wilder and wilder. Personally, I don't think he seen anything. I think he was fed those stories to keep his mama out of trouble for credit card fraud.

[Nova]

Nova, I think the reason Byers wasn't too closely questioned was because he knew the things that were going on with the Drug Task Force. He should have been questioned first and foremost. None of the boys' families were questioned until a week or two after the murders. They should have been the first one questioned, isn't that the way it usually works? When Byers was finally questioned, they only asked him softball questions, even when he outright lied. He lied at least three different times about the knife that had the blood on it that he gave the HBO crew.

Aaron's stories just kept get wilder and wilder. Personally, I don't think he seen anything. I think he was fed those stories to keep his mama out of trouble for credit card fraud.

You are so right, tez. Even when Byers turned out to have a serrated knife with blood matching Christopher's type, the police apologized for asking him about it. He was their buddy and they had made his legal problems "go away" before.

I just finished rereading Aaron's ever more preposterous stories. They were never credible and LE didn't consider them credible until they got desperate because they had no evidence linking the defendants to occult activities, activities which were LE's theory of the motive.

BTW, Byers also disappeared in the middle of the evening, suddenly leaving the other searchers to go home and change clothes. Why change clothes? How long was he gone?

Also, I said above that I didn't believe Jessie knew Damian before the murders. In fact, he had met Damian, but they didn't know one another very well. Jessie and Jason went to elementary school together, but it does appear they were friends either. (Frankly, Jessie isn't bright enough to have been a close friend of either Damian or Jason.)

[the original tez]

You are so right, tez. Even when Byers turned out to have a serrated knife with blood matching Christopher's type, the police apologized for asking him about it. He was their buddy and they had made his legal problems "go away" before.

I just finished rereading Aaron's ever more preposterous stories. They were never credible and LE didn't consider them credible until they got desperate because they had no evidence linking the defendants to occult activities, activities which were LE's theory of the motive.

BTW, Byers also disappeared in the middle of the evening, suddenly leaving the other searchers to go home and change clothes. Why change clothes? How long was he gone?

Also, I said above that I didn't believe Jessie knew Damian before the murders. In fact, he had met Damian, but they didn't know one another very well. Jessie and Jason went to elementary school together, but it does appear they were friends either. (Frankly, Jessie isn't bright enough to have been a close friend of either Damian or Jason.)

He said he went home to change from his shorts and flip flops because of the mosquitoes in the woods. He said he put on his boot and overalls which he kept on for the next two or three days. I wonder why his clothes weren't bagged for evidence? And what kind of fool goes home to change clothes when it is dark and doesn't get a flashlight if he is going to search the woods?

ETA: It was Byers that "suggested" to the searchers to get a boat in the bayou to look for the boys in case they drowned. This was either the night they went missing or early the next morning.

[Nova]

He said he went home to change from his shorts and flip flops because of the mosquitoes in the woods. He said he put on his boot and overalls which he kept on for the next two or three days. I wonder why his clothes weren't bagged for evidence? And what kind of fool goes home to change clothes when it is dark and doesn't get a flashlight if he is going to search the woods?

ETA: It was Byers that "suggested" to the searchers to get a boat in the bayou to look for the boys in case they drowned. This was either the night they went missing or early the next morning.


I'm just speculating: what if he did get a flashlight but it later became an element in a crime?

[the original tez]

I'm just speculating: what if he did get a flashlight but it later became an element in a crime?

Oh geez, Nova, I never even thought about that! What if? OMG! It doesn't make any sense to go home and change clothes and say you are going to search the woods in the dark and NOT remember a flashlight. That's like the first thing on the checklist, isn't it?

Here lately, I'm learning entirely too many things about water searches and searches in the woods after dark. Real life has been giving me some important lessons, and not ones I ever wanted to learn. But, while watching the search for my BIL in the water, I learned that the flashlight is the first thing on the checklist, right after the oxygen tank and mask!!!! And for searching the woods, the flashlight is the first thing on the list, followed by insect repellent.

Byers' story has more holes in it than swiss cheese.

BTW, Nova I do remember the police apologizing for asking him about Chris's blood on the knife. Yeah, the knife he never used, then he used it to cut up venison, then he might have used it to trim his fingernails, and maybe Chris found it in his dresser, WTF???....Ok, yeah, I'm not buying what he's selling....

As Judge Judy would say, "If it doesn't make sense, then it's a lie!"

[Leve]

I have a couple of questions.

Were the boy's backpacks ever found?

What time does the state think the murders happened?

TIA!

[kazzbar]

I have a couple of questions.

Were the boy's backpacks ever found?

What time does the state think the murders happened?

TIA!
Welcome to Ws.. I think the back packs were found in the water.But Nova is a font of info regarding this case and knows far more than me regarding the details.

[the original tez]

Color me confused, but what backpacks? I haven't heard of the backpacks, just the bicycles that were found in water.:confused::confused::confused::confused::con fused:

[Leve]

Color me confused, but what backpacks? I haven't heard of the backpacks, just the bicycles that were found in water.:confused::confused::confused::confused::con fused:

One witness said both Moore and Hobbs had backpacks on.

I found the trial transcripts. Someone posted on it on the other thread.

http://callahan.8k.com/

So far I've read up to the discovery of the bodies. A few (IMO) interesting things.

Mr. Moore was out of town. Mrs Moore saw the boys and sent her 10 year old daughter after them - it was dinner time.

Mrs. Hobbs was at work until 9:25 - She filed the police report from work. At about 9:40 Officer Moore met up with John Byers and searched - Byers was by himself at the end of the dead in road - no flashlight.

Woody saw 4 kids sometime after 6:30 headed into the woods. He saw them from the back for 5 seconds while driving 45 mph. He remembered because Chris Byers had spikey hair similiar to his own son. the police NEVER asked him to describe the 4th child.

The most interesting thing so far is that Officer Meek searched in the woods up to the drain pipe but turned back because the mosquitos were so bad that she kept swallowing them. She ended up with several bites. Were there bugs bites on the boys bodies?

Sometime after 8:45 she met up with Ryan Byers and friends and searched empty houses. John Byers was not with them.

The last I read Officer Allen fell in the water when looking at the tennis shoe. He got out of the water and went around a tree. Could this be how the blood found at the scene got there? The water was very bloody.

[Leve]

I just found the answer to my question. There were no bug bites on the boys' bodies per the ME in the Echols/Baldwin Trial. He also thought the boys died between 1:00 A.M. and 5:00 A.M. and that they were killed elsewhere due to the lack of blood at the crime scene and the nature of chris's injuries.

[kazzbar]

I just found the answer to my question. There were no bug bites on the boys' bodies per the ME in the Echols/Baldwin Trial. He also thought the boys died between 1:00 A.M. and 5:00 A.M. and that they were killed elsewhere due to the lack of blood at the crime scene and the nature of chris's injuries.I have always wondered about the possibility that the lil guys were killed in the back of a truck, then dumped into the creek.Maybe by a transient trucker type.How accessible was the murder scene by vehicle? I am guessing it was not as pics make the area look extremely remote and well vegetated..just a thought.I just cannot believe that little blood was found at the scene considering the trauma that was perpetrated...could it be that the boys were just bundled of and taken to an old house somewhere?

[Nova]

I have always wondered about the possibility that the lil guys were killed in the back of a truck, then dumped into the creek.Maybe by a transient trucker type.How accessible was the murder scene by vehicle? I am guessing it was not as pics make the area look extremely remote and well vegetated..just a thought.I just cannot believe that little blood was found at the scene considering the trauma that was perpetrated...could it be that the boys were just bundled of and taken to an old house somewhere?

I've never thought about a large, enclosed truck, but some sort of house makes sense.

Christopher wasn't just castrated, his penis was skinned. The coroner testified that the skinning would have taken some time and it's clear the poor child would have been yelling his head off. This is a reason (in addition to the lack of blood on the bank) why it seems unlikely the children were killed where they were found. Searchers were in and out of the woods all evening. They would have heard the children if they (particularly Christopher) had been tortured on the banks of the "bayou."

[Nova]

I just found the answer to my question. There were no bug bites on the boys' bodies per the ME in the Echols/Baldwin Trial. He also thought the boys died between 1:00 A.M. and 5:00 A.M. and that they were killed elsewhere due to the lack of blood at the crime scene and the nature of chris's injuries.

As I'm sure you know, the ME didn't get around to forming an opinion about the TOD until the second trial. I'm not sure what to make of his estimate.

I don't know about the backpacks. If they were never found, it's odd nobody made an issue of them. Good question.

[kazzbar]

I've never thought about a large, enclosed truck, but some sort of house makes sense.

Christopher wasn't just castrated, his penis was skinned. The coroner testified that the skinning would have taken some time and it's clear the poor child would have been yelling his head off. This is a reason (in addition to the lack of blood on the bank) why it seems unlikely the children were killed where they were found. Searchers were in and out of the woods all evening. They would have heard the children if they (particularly Christopher) had been tortured on the banks of the "bayou."You make a terrific point ,Nova and there in lies the whole doubt in this case....I do not believe the boys were killed where the bodies were found.Was'nt there a policeman who walked near the bank earlier in the search? I just cannot understand how such a brutal act could be committed without a lack of blood and other evidence. Where Echols and Co checked for cuts on their hands etc?.. John Mark BYers still seems like the man most likely at this point..it would be great if we could do a total time breakdown as was done on the Maddie Mc Cann thread.

[Nova]

You make a terrific point ,Nova and there in lies the whole doubt in this case....I do not believe the boys were killed where the bodies were found.Was'nt there a policeman who walked near the bank earlier in the search? I just cannot understand how such a brutal act could be committed without a lack of blood and other evidence. Where Echols and Co checked for cuts on their hands etc?.. John Mark BYers still seems like the man most likely at this point..it would be great if we could do a total time breakdown as was done on the Maddie Mc Cann thread.

Echols was questioned early on, but none of the 3 defendants were arrested until a month after the murders. It may have been too late to check for cuts.

I, too, would love to see that timeline.

[Leve]

I read the Echols/Baldwin trial first. All I can say is "Wow". I don't see how anybody can say that they think Jason Baldwin is guilty. There is NO evidence. The state didn't even present anything except a totally unbelievable jailhouse confession. As far as Echols I just don't see beyond a reasonable doubt there either. Even the Judge admitted that not one person on the jury wasn't aware of Jessie's confession - why wasn't there a change of venue?

Just wow.

[Nova]

I read the Echols/Baldwin trial first. All I can say is "Wow". I don't see how anybody can say that they think Jason Baldwin is guilty. There is NO evidence. The state didn't even present anything except a totally unbelievable jailhouse confession. As far as Echols I just don't see beyond a reasonable doubt there either. Even the Judge admitted that not one person on the jury wasn't aware of Jessie's confession - why wasn't there a change of venue?

Just wow.

Wow, indeed. It's probably just as well I'll never be a juror in Arkansas. I'd be tempted to acquit just on principle.

[the original tez]

Wow, indeed. It's probably just as well I'll never be a juror in Arkansas. I'd be tempted to acquit just on principle.

Nova, I WOULD acquit on principle! LOL:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Leve, there was a change of venue for both trials. One was held in Jonesboro, and I think the other was held in Reader. I'm probably wrong on the one in Reader, but it was somewhere like that.

[Jeana (DP)]

Nova, I WOULD acquit on principle! LOL:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Leve, there was a change of venue for both trials. One was held in Jonesboro, and I think the other was held in Reader. I'm probably wrong on the one in Reader, but it was somewhere like that.

I love ya both, but neither of you are juror material!!!! :D

[kazzbar]

Hello Guys,
Any chance of us brainy people getting a timeline sorted out?
I just want to see some sort of possible timeline...are there any on the net? I had a look awhile ago but came up with very little....Did the cops ever put one together?

[Leve]

Hello Guys,
Any chance of us brainy people getting a timeline sorted out?
I just want to see some sort of possible timeline...are there any on the net? I had a look awhile ago but came up with very little....Did the cops ever put one together?

How would you do it? There are trial transcripts and witness statements available, but they give conflicting times (not even mentioning Jessie's confession). If several people were interested 1 person could do the boys, the search, ect. And another could do Baldwin, Echols, and Jessie. Then a third person would have to do Jessie's confession. Jessie was seen at home at 6:30 that night by one witness.

I'd be willing though.

[Jeana (DP)]

I stumbled across a site with a very large WM3 second. I'm a member there as of today.

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/index.php?showforum=75 ]

[kazzbar]

I stumbled across a site with a very large WM3 second. I'm a member there as of today.

http://www.crimeandjustice.us/forums/index.php?showforum=75 ]Thanks Jeana, when I get time I will check it out.Have been busy at work of late so have not had much time.Thanks to you all for keeping this alive.

[the original tez]

Jeana, thanks for the link. I went over and registered.

:laugh::laugh:I know I'm not juror material! LOL I know I couldn't sit on a jury for Echols and Company and convict knowing what I know about the case. In fact, the only jury I'd probably be able to sit on would be something to do with an anti-trust case or something I have no interest in at this point in time!

BTW, love you too!!!!!;)

[Nova]

I love ya both, but neither of you are juror material!!!! :D

I'll have you know I've served on several panels in both New York and California.

I was a juror on the case of a 19-year-old California defendant who stabbed a bully 10 times because the bully called him a "faggot." Despite my presence on that jury (and my reputation here as a bleeding heart liberal), that young murderer went to jail for a long, long time. 2nd degree murder, the highest charge we were allowed to find.

:hand:

(I assume you were kidding. Actually, I don't find it difficult to distinguish between my personal feelings and what is demonstrated by the evidence. I was also on a jury where I was sure the defendant had committed the robbery, but the only witness was so confused, there was simply no way to find the prosecution had proved its case. (As you know, I am automatically excused from capital cases. On drug cases, I request a side bar conference during voir dire and declare my refusal to support the government's drug laws, so that gets me excused from those cases, too.))

[Taximom]

I'm watching "Paradise Lost" now and am sick to my stomach at what happened to these boys.

The opening was police video of the crime scene which included the boy's bodies. :(

[the original tez]

I'm watching "Paradise Lost" now and am sick to my stomach at what happened to these boys.

The opening was police video of the crime scene which included the boy's bodies. :(

Taximom, Where did you find the video? I can't get it at my video store.....:(

[Taximom]

Taximom, Where did you find the video? I can't get it at my video store.....:(

Hi Tez. How are you doing? I think of you often. :blowkiss:

Netflix had both. Our local library only had a videotape of the 1st documentary.

I have to watch it in bits and pieces. What those boys went through is just so sick, horrible and sad. Out of the three killers, only one "looks" like he could have killed and done all that other stuff. (I'm not saying the others didn't participate though.) My heart just breaks for those little boys and what they went through in their last hours.

I had watched about half by the time I picked up my own son from school. He got a huge hug. Much longer and stronger than normal. Just because. (My daughters too!)

I can't believe I didn't hear of this before coming to WS.

[Taximom]

I didn't read anything here about the case on purpose. I wanted to watch the documentaries first. I'm about 75% through the 1st, and now I'm even wondering who killed those boys.

I realize these films can be slanted toward the prosecution or the defense, especially after watching the documentary about the Michael Peterson (Raleigh-Durham, NC) case.

I don't see how those 3 teen suspects could have done all that (even though that's what I had assumed), and I'm even leaning towards the stepfather (Terry Hobbs) of the Branch boy as the killer. What was his alibi? So far they have glossed over it in the film.

I just found this article from 8/2007. My apologies if it's already posted here. It's just a cached version/text only:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:RYEgrVHXmCYJ:www.americanchronicle. com/articles/viewArticle.asp%3FarticleID%3D35197+West+memphis+t hree+stepfather&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1

I still can't get over what a horrible, horrible crime this was. Just from the "anger" aspect, I really feel this was committed by the step-father.

(back to watching and researching!)

[Nova]

I didn't read anything here about the case on purpose. I wanted to watch the documentaries first. I'm about 75% through the 1st, and now I'm even wondering who killed those boys.

I realize these films can be slanted toward the prosecution or the defense, especially after watching the documentary about the Michael Peterson (Raleigh-Durham, NC) case.

I don't see how those 3 teen suspects could have done all that (even though that's what I had assumed), and I'm even leaning towards the stepfather (Terry Hobbs) of the Branch boy as the killer. What was his alibi? So far they have glossed over it in the film.

I just found this article from 8/2007. My apologies if it's already posted here. It's just a cached version/text only:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:RYEgrVHXmCYJ:www.americanchronicle. com/articles/viewArticle.asp%3FarticleID%3D35197+West+memphis+t hree+stepfather&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1

I still can't get over what a horrible, horrible crime this was. Just from the "anger" aspect, I really feel this was committed by the step-father.

(back to watching and researching!)

Taxi, I'm not sure the filmmakers started out to make a "pro-defense" film. I believe they too thought this was some sort of horrendous, "cult" killing. But the stunning lack of evidence and the shoddy LE work affected them deeply. Obviously.

[Taximom]

Taxi, I'm not sure the filmmakers started out to make a "pro-defense" film. I believe they too thought this was some sort of horrendous, "cult" killing. But the stunning lack of evidence and the shoddy LE work affected them deeply. Obviously.

Thanks for comment, Nova. :blowkiss:

I was hoping it was "just-the-facts", but at 2 1/2 hours there weren't enough facts relayed. I finished watching it a bit ago, and now I want to know all the facts. I truly can't see those 3 teens killing those little boys.

Well, enough from me. Watch these dvd's if you can.

[Nova]

Thanks for comment, Nova. :blowkiss:

I was hoping it was "just-the-facts", but at 2 1/2 hours there weren't enough facts relayed. I finished watching it a bit ago, and now I want to know all the facts. I truly can't see those 3 teens killing those little boys.

Well, enough from me. Watch these dvd's if you can.

Unfortunately, the lack of investigation means most of the facts will probably never be known. LE relied on small town gossip and ghost stories and ignored or "lost" nearly all of the actual evidence.

[Taximom]

I'm halfway through the 2nd documentary. A lot of the focus is on John Mark Byers. If you have a chance to watch this, come back and tell me if you agree that he deserves an Oscar for his performance at the cemetary. :sick:

I just watched a criminal profiler working for the defense say there were multiple bite marks on one of the victims that were missed in the autopsy. Yes. Missed.

Of course, Byers has a whole new set of teeth. If there aren't any old teeth impressions at his dentist, one would think that the dental impressions of the 3 teens could be taken to at least rule them out!!!

I'm not through with it yet (another hour to go), but I'm still convinced Byers did it.

[Nova]

I'm halfway through the 2nd documentary. A lot of the focus is on John Mark Byers. If you have a chance to watch this, come back and tell me if you agree that he deserves an Oscar for his performance at the cemetary. :sick:

I just watched a criminal profiler working for the defense say there were multiple bite marks on one of the victims that were missed in the autopsy. Yes. Missed.

Of course, Byers has a whole new set of teeth. If there aren't any old teeth impressions at his dentist, one would think that the dental impressions of the 3 teens could be taken to at least rule them out!!!

I'm not through with it yet (another hour to go), but I'm still convinced Byers did it.

I believe dental impressions of the three defendants have ruled them out, as far as outside experts are concerned.

But I believe the appeal on this issue has already been denied. By the time Brent Turvey noticed what he believes to be bite marks, it was too late to check the kids' bodies, so everyone is relying on photographs.

Arkansas LE claims the marks are NOT bites and therefore it doesn't matter whose teeth might fit the wounds.

(As you probably know, bite marks on skin can be problematic because skin moves and stretches, particularly during a violent encounter. When one is limited to photos of alleged bite marks, the problems are compounded.

That being said, however, it is shocking how few qualifications make one an "expert" in Arkansas. By those standards, I am an expert on surgery 'cause I used to watch M*A*S*H.)

[Taximom]

I believe dental impressions of the three defendants have ruled them out, as far as outside experts are concerned.

But I believe the appeal on this issue has already been denied. By the time Brent Turvey noticed what he believes to be bite marks, it was too late to check the kids' bodies, so everyone is relying on photographs.

Arkansas LE claims the marks are NOT bites and therefore it doesn't matter whose teeth might fit the wounds.

(As you probably know, bite marks on skin can be problematic because skin moves and stretches, particularly during a violent encounter. When one is limited to photos of alleged bite marks, the problems are compounded.

That being said, however, it is shocking how few qualifications make one an "expert" in Arkansas. By those standards, I am an expert on surgery 'cause I used to watch M*A*S*H.)

Thanks for this information, Nova. As you can tell, I'm way behind on this case. I appreciate you being patient with me as I begin this odyssey!

Are these young men approaching their last chance(s) at freedom soon? I wish they could all have a new trial. I think that would be fair.

In my eyes, Nova, you are quite the expert on a lot of things!

[Nova]

Thanks for this information, Nova. As you can tell, I'm way behind on this case. I appreciate you being patient with me as I begin this odyssey!

Are these young men approaching their last chance(s) at freedom soon? I wish they could all have a new trial. I think that would be fair.

In my eyes, Nova, you are quite the expert on a lot of things!

My bad, then, Taximom. I don't mean to pose as an expert. :) I may be wrong about the bite marks, but that's my best recollection.

You might want to check out:

www.wm3.org


(The first page is an appeal for help and it does explain to some extent the current state of the appeals. But you can skip the first page discussion and go directly to the bottom and click on a link to enter the site and then select "case info."

I want to make it clear that while I agree there was a miscarriage of justice here, I am in no way affiliated with that site, nor am I trying to get you or anybody to contribute time or money to aid the defendants.

Jeanna feels that site unfairly edits info to cast a positive light on the defendants and, for all I know, she may be right. But some of the info, at least, comes directly from public records and you can judge those for yourself.)

[Taximom]

Aw, Nova, I meant that as a compliment. :blowkiss: You have a way about you that I truly appreciate and enjoy.

I've seen that site and am really trying to look only at the facts. I wouldn't mind helping out if I could.

I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so Jeanna can say that about that site if she wants. When I am more informed I'd like to hear more about her opinion.

After I finish watching the dvd, I'm reading everything about the case here and elsewhere that I can get my hands on!

[Nova]

Aw, Nova, I meant that as a compliment. :blowkiss: You have a way about you that I truly appreciate and enjoy.

Gosh, Taxi, I knew you were paying me a compliment! I was trying to act humble. Guess I'm not very good at it. :doh: (Seriously, I fear that because I sometimes write in a direct style of language, I sound more authoritative than I really am.)

I've seen that site and am really trying to look only at the facts. I wouldn't mind helping out if I could.

I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so Jeanna can say that about that site if she wants. When I am more informed I'd like to hear more about her opinion.

After I finish watching the dvd, I'm reading everything about the case here and elsewhere that I can get my hands on!

Re wm3.org, absolutely! That site has an "agenda" and good on them. But it's also the most complete record of the case that I know. So when I recommend it, I want to be clear and not let people feel pressured. (I believe the WM3 are innocent, or at least wrongly convicted, but I can't claim to have done anything about it.)

Jeanna is certainly right that the site is heavily slanted toward the view that the three defendants are innocent. Whether that slant is righteous or not depends on one's view of the events.

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeanna feels that site unfairly edits info to cast a positive light on the defendants and, for all I know, she may be right. But some of the info, at least, comes directly from public records and you can judge those for yourself.)

Considering they only put on there what helps the defense, I'd still say it. Where are the transcripts in this case? Why can't we see everything that the state had to say?

[Nova]

Considering they only put on there what helps the defense, I'd still say it. Where are the transcripts in this case? Why can't we see everything that the state had to say?

I don't know and I haven't been empowered to speak for them. But, in fairness, the site makes its advocacy very clear. It was founded to work toward getting the defendants released or, failing that, a new trial. www.wm3.org has never claimed to be an impartial site of record.

As I speculated above, I imagine there is some reluctance to reinforce all the testimony that should have been inadmissible in the first place: testimony concerning heavy metal music and the reading of books, and, particularly, testimony that was later admitted to be perjury.

That's not how you or I'd run the site, I agree. But I can understand the reasoning.

Honestly, there was so little evidence in this case that nearly all the testimony was inflammatory nonsense. I'm just guessing, but I imagine those who run the site don't want to further "poison the well."

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm just guessing, but I imagine those who run the site don't want to further "poison the well."


I don't blame them. After all, where would all the supporters go when they read the state's case and agreed with it?

[Nova]

I don't blame them. After all, where would all the supporters go when they read the state's case and agreed with it?

As I've said, I agree with you that "sunshine is the best disinfectant." I'd post all the transcripts and let readers decide for themselves.

But as you know, our legal system already takes the position that some sorts of testimony are so inflamatory or so unreliable that jurors must not hear it. Personally, I often think courts go to far in excluding info, but that's how the system works.

Most if not all outside observers have agreed that most of the testimony in this case was clearly inflammatory or irrelevant, and/or later proved to be perjured. In excluding it, the wm3 supporters only do what the trial judge should have done in the first place.

I know it's hard to fathom, but there really is no evidence against the defendants except Misskelley's quite obviously false confession, small town gossip that was later recanted in almost all cases, and a few objects that could not be tied to the defendants. This case really was that bad, Jeanna.

[Jeana (DP)]

Nova, while I agree that there are some things in this case that I'd personally like the answers to, the fact remains that all we really know is what the defense is putting out there. Many people were either there in that courtroom or have gone over the transcripts for appeals who still strongly think that these three are guilty. I'd like to hear their reasons before I believe everything the defense has to say. After all, no defendant is ever guilty according to their counsel.

[Taximom]

I'm left with a deep sadness in my heart after watching the 2nd dvd. I'm not convinced of anyone's involvement in this crime because I haven't seen enough evidence in total. I would like to read all the trial transcripts too.

I still have so many questions that the dvd's didn't answer. I'm hoping the book will help in that area.

I know God works in mysterious ways, and justice will be served eventually for these horrible crimes whether it's here on earth or beyond. That's about the only thing I can take comfort in right now.

Would someone mind telling me where the case stands as of right now? The dvd's were from practically 10 yrs ago. Are they appealing at the federal level? Do they only have one more chance?

Thanks again for helping me understand this a little better.

[Leve]

I think Jeana posted this link earlier. I read the Echols/Baldin trial first since the jury wasn't supposed to use the confession. If you read that one first you'll be blown away that Baldwin was convicted. I haven't read Jessie's trial yet.

This site appears to have it all - witness statements, trial transcripts, and crime lab reports.

http://callahan.8k.com/custom2.html

[Taximom]

Hi Leve! Thanks for the link. :blowkiss:

I wish they had taped the first 12 hours of Jessie's interrogation. I can see how he might have been led on.

[Jeana (DP)]

:slap: I think Jeana posted this link earlier. I read the Echols/Baldin trial first since the jury wasn't supposed to use the confession. If you read that one first you'll be blown away that Baldwin was convicted. I haven't read Jessie's trial yet.

This site appears to have it all - witness statements, trial transcripts, and crime lab reports.

http://callahan.8k.com/custom2.html

I cannot believe I'm so stupid!!! I posted the link but never had time to do more than a glance at the beginning of it. THE TRANSCIPTS, NOVA, ARE HERE!!! lol I may have to sit and read them all. Crap, I knew I'd be sucked back into this case.

Thanks Leve!!:slap: :slap: :slap: ;) ;) ;)

[Taximom]

So if we don't hear from you in (insert #) of days, we are to send SAR? :D

Leve, have you researched "all" sides of this case?

Jeana, are you pretty firm about who killed the boys?

Ohhhh, I have goosebumps.

[Jeana (DP)]

So if we don't hear from you in (insert #) of days, we are to send SAR? :D

Leve, have you researched "all" sides of this case?

Jeana, are you pretty firm about who killed the boys?

Ohhhh, I have goosebumps.

If you don't hear from me by February, call someone.:(

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the boys are guilty, but Mark Byers always bugged the crap out of me. He's a seriously effed up and creepy dude. If there was some way I thought he could have done this alone, I'd have to have some doubts about the three boys. I guess I'll be watching Paradise Lost tonite.

[Taximom]

If you don't hear from me by February, call someone.:(

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the boys are guilty, but Mark Byers always bugged the crap out of me. He's a seriously effed up and creepy dude. If there was some way I thought he could have done this alone, I'd have to have some doubts about the three boys. I guess I'll be watching Paradise Lost tonite.

Have you ever watched PL? After watching both, I'm probably more confused than ever! I hope you post your thoughts about it here.

I don't know if you've seen the boys crime scene pictures, but they show the boys as they were found at the beginning of the dvd and throughout. I can't get them out of my mind. :( :( :(

[Nova]

Nova, while I agree that there are some things in this case that I'd personally like the answers to, the fact remains that all we really know is what the defense is putting out there. Many people were either there in that courtroom or have gone over the transcripts for appeals who still strongly think that these three are guilty. I'd like to hear their reasons before I believe everything the defense has to say. After all, no defendant is ever guilty according to their counsel.

Again, I still agree I'd like to see the transcripts.

But we don't have to take the word of defense attorneys. We can read statements by the prosecutors and judges (and--God help us!--the state's experts, including the one who got his degree from correspondence school) and know the trials and appeals were appalling.

[Nova]

:slap:

I cannot believe I'm so stupid!!! I posted the link but never had time to do more than a glance at the beginning of it. THE TRANSCIPTS, NOVA, ARE HERE!!! lol I may have to sit and read them all. Crap, I knew I'd be sucked back into this case.

Thanks Leve!!:slap: :slap: :slap: ;) ;) ;)

I hope stupidity loves company. I've been reading about this case for years and never noticed the complete transcripts. :doh:

I probably won't get to them until next week. Sometimes, it sucks not to be a member of the idle rich.

[Taximom]

I'm reading them and ..zzzz.... it's late! I hope we can compare notes later.

I'm sure it gets more interesting later on in the transcripts.

[Jeana (DP)]

Have you ever watched PL? After watching both, I'm probably more confused than ever! I hope you post your thoughts about it here.

I don't know if you've seen the boys crime scene pictures, but they show the boys as they were found at the beginning of the dvd and throughout. I can't get them out of my mind. :( :( :(

Yes, I've seen them.

[Jeana (DP)]

I hope stupidity loves company. I've been reading about this case for years and never noticed the complete transcripts. :doh:

I probably won't get to them until next week. Sometimes, it sucks not to be a member of the idle rich.

I know, right!!! LOL I want to read them, but holy cow, what a CHORE!!!! :bang:

[kazzbar]

Have you ever watched PL? After watching both, I'm probably more confused than ever! I hope you post your thoughts about it here.

I don't know if you've seen the boys crime scene pictures, but they show the boys as they were found at the beginning of the dvd and throughout. I can't get them out of my mind. :( :( :(That is exactly how I felt after watching those two films...I was angry and revolted.

[Leve]

I read Echols/Baldwin trial and can't believe Baldwin was found guilty. His lawyer didn't do much but thats just because he didn't really have much to cross examine since Baldwin was rarely even mentioned.

It was interesting that they found matching fibers in Michael Moore's house. From a grananimal shirt I think same as the little brother. They didn't even checK Branch's home to see if matching fibers could be found, so I pretty much disregarded the fiber evidence.

I haven't started Jessie's trial - I think its quite a bit more involved. I did read several witness statements.

[Elphaba]

New evidence may change things for the W3... DNA evidence puts a light of question on Terry Hobbs (father of Branch) and one of his friends.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/07/west.memphis.three/index.html

[Taximom]

I just sent Tez the dvd's about this case. I know I'm watching them again when I get them back! I can't keep the characters straight.

From the link above:
Echols' lawyers maintained that it's not their job to solve the crime, only to show that their client wasn't involved. But the defense team said two hairs found at the crime scene could belong to one of the victim's stepfathers and the man's friend.
"The new DNA evidence is that one hair that was found in the ligature of the shoelaces that bound Michael Moore is consistent with the DNA of Terry Hobbs, who is the father of Stevie Branch," Lax told CNN.
He continued: "Another hair that had been found at the crime scene, which had been unidentified for all these years, has just recently been tested. And the DNA on that hair is consistent with the DNA of David Jacoby. David Jacoby is a good friend or was a good friend of Terry Hobbs, and Terry Hobbs was at his house just that afternoon and evening."
While David Jacoby did not return CNN's calls, Hobbs' attorney, Ross Sampson, told CNN it's possible his client's hair was found at the scene. "It was naturally transferred; it was a child that lived with him," Sampson said.
"Mr. Hobbs had absolutely nothing to do with the death of his own stepson or the two other individuals in this matter," Sampson stated.
Hobbs spoke with CNN. He said the new suspicions are hurtful to him.
"It's hard as a parent to live with the loss of your home, of your wife, your family and then to have your friends and neighbors look at you and think, 'Is there something else there?' That hurts," he said.

I hate to say it, but I don't think that hair evidence will help. Couldn't one of the boys picked those hairs up in Hobb's home? I'm assuming that Jacoby was at the Hobbs residence at least once? Or it could have been brought from Jacoby's residence by Hobbs after a visit there.

As much as I want to see them free, I just don't think this is what will clinch the deal.

[Taximom]

That same article says Anderson Cooper is covering this on his 10:00 e.s.t show on CNN. I like his reporting.

[Kellee]

Taximom - Video of the recent press conference and Q & A are linked at the wm3.org website. The videos are about 2 hours in total.

[Jules]

I recorded the program. I'm looking forward to watching it.

[Eire]

I'll have to make some time to catch that video. I like Cooper's style.

I've always felt they didn't do it. Hopefully, they'll get a new trial and we'll know for sure one way or the other.

Funny side note, I was wearing my "Free the West Memphis Three" shirt last week when my daughter asked me which band that was! She's been set striaight now.

[kcksum]

I'll have to make some time to catch that video. I like Cooper's style.

I've always felt they didn't do it. Hopefully, they'll get a new trial and we'll know for sure one way or the other.

Funny side note, I was wearing my "Free the West Memphis Three" shirt last week when my daughter asked me which band that was! She's been set striaight now.
can i order one from the web site? I want one of those!

[Taximom]

I taped Cooper's segment so I can watch it again later. What they reported made the latest hair evidence make a little more sense.

I had the men's names mixed up as to who the hairs belonged too. I was picturing Mark Byers.

Kellee, thanks for the info about the PC video! :blowkiss:

[Eire]

can i order one from the web site? I want one of those!

Yep! That's where I bought mine. I must admit, I was swayed by the pic of Henry Rollins sporting one. :crazy:

[the original tez]

I just watched the DVDs that Taximom sent me, PL I and II. Thanks Taxi! :blowkiss:

I was absolutely revolted by Pam Hobbs. She made me sick when they were interviewing her and she put Stevie's boyscout bandanna on her head. However, Mark and Melissa Byers are two of the most bizarre people I have ever seen in my life!

It's pretty obvious that Little Jessie Misskelley is not all there. I feel so sorry for him, and I do feel his interview was coerced.

It appears that Damien has really matured since he was convicted. I really liked his restraint when he was asked how he felt about Mark Byers.

I didn't see any evidence against Jason Baldwin at all.

I eMailed Nova last week to tell him that there was a little blurb in my local paper about how it is probably going to take years to go over the "new" evidence. I guess that means Damien won't be put to death any time soon, thankfully.

I am very upset after viewing the DVDs. I haven't been able to sleep since watching them. And now having my worst suspicions confirmed about the ME's office in AR, I wonder what evidence was missed in my BIL's "suspicious" drowning....

[Taximom]

I'm glad you were able to watch them, Tez. I know they left vivid impressions on my brain for a while. I wasn't prepared at first, but then I started trying to look for clues with those crime scene shots.

I believe Anderson Cooper said that forest area is torn down now, or will be.

All you have to do with the dvd's is to put them in the Netflix envelope and mail them when you get a chance. They'll go right back to my Netflix account and you don't have to pay for postage!

Can you ask to see the paperwork in your BIL's case? Do you have any lawyer friends that can help you? I'm sorry you are going through this and wish I could help somehow. :blowkiss:

[kazzbar]

can i order one from the web site? I want one of those!I am glad to see that this case is getting so much publicity... maybe it will all help to get another trial for these guys..
I would like to see some heat on Byers ..
If the 3 did kill those boys then he has got to be the next most likely...
Anyone know how friendly he was with Hobbs?

[paddy01]

Kazzbar, took your advice & came here, thanks. This case is so disturbing to me. After reading Devil's Knot, OMG, how in the world could Jessie's confession be used? There were so many discrepancies in his story. Really not happy about how the detectives handled the investigation. I would like to see another trial.

[anneoakley63]

It's obvious that there is a LOT wrong with hte prosecution in this case. I really do hope these boys at least get a new trial and they're treated fairly.

[kazzbar]

Kazzbar, took your advice & came here, thanks. This case is so disturbing to me. After reading Devil's Knot, OMG, how in the world could Jessie's confession be used? There were so many discrepancies in his story. Really not happy about how the detectives handled the investigation. I would like to see another trial.
Thanks Paddy..this case is disturbing in every way. I sit on the fence regarding guilt or innocence. I just do not know either way. Byers really is the most obvious of suspects IMO. The guy is just off the scale..

[paddy01]

Just by accident, came across a segment about WM3 on the Morning show with Mike & Juliet. Mark Byers was there, I didn't recognized him at first, he was cleaned up & in a suit. He stated that he doesn't think WM3 committed the murders after all, his rush to judgment in 1993 was due to "Satanic Panic", and everything the state brought out during the trial about devil worship & WM3 being a cult. When Byers was asked why he changed his mind, he said, DNA evidence & the confessions don't fit the crime scene. Also appearing was Dr. Michael Baden a pathologist for the defense, he stated there was never any medical evidence of sexual assault on the victims. What appeared to be an assault on the gentalia of one of boys was probably caused by animal activity, such as rodents, turtles or fish. Did anybody else see this show?

[kazzbar]

Just by accident, came across a segment about WM3 on the Morning show with Mike & Juliet. Mark Byers was there, I didn't recognized him at first, he was cleaned up & in a suit. He stated that he doesn't think WM3 committed the murders after all, his rush to judgment in 1993 was due to "Satanic Panic", and everything the state brought out during the trial about devil worship & WM3 being a cult. When Byers was asked why he changed his mind, he said, DNA evidence & the confessions don't fit the crime scene. Also appearing was Dr. Michael Baden a pathologist for the defense, he stated there was never any medical evidence of sexual assault on the victims. What appeared to be an assault on the gentalia of one of boys was probably caused by animal activity, such as rodents, turtles or fish. Did anybody else see this show?Hello Paddy, wish I had seen it.I have great respect for Dr Baden. I have heard before that it is possible the boys genitals were biten by animals. I wonder how long the bodies were there? I would have thought no longer than 18 hours.
I think it sounds like things are 'developing'...
Satanic panic is a really apt term for all that seemed to take place in that town.

[cenasangel]

Ive a few questions to ask

1. Is it not true that at the same time those boys were killed there was a serial killer passing through the town (something i heard) ???
2. Did Mark Byers take a polygraph test which said he was being truthful ??
3. Has there ever been any attempts to obtain Mark Byers dental records from the dentist that extracted his teeth ???

[laini]

Ive a few questions to ask

1. Is it not true that at the same time those boys were killed there was a serial killer passing through the town (something i heard) ???
2. Did Mark Byers take a polygraph test which said he was being truthful ??
3. Has there ever been any attempts to obtain Mark Byers dental records from the dentist that extracted his teeth ???

I think I can answer #2. I seem to remember that he did take a polygraph, in fact it was shown in the movie about this case, andinhat he "passed" the polygraph but that is because a psychopath believes he is telling the truth. I am sure others here can verify if I am remembering correctly.

(In fact, didn't the person who gave him the test say that he believed BYERS believed what he was saying was truth, not necessaqrily that the examiner felt he was truthful I am pretty sure one of the two movies showed quite a bit of this polygraph test).

[kazzbar]

I think I can answer #2. I seem to remember that he did take a polygraph, in fact it was shown in the movie about this case, andinhat he "passed" the polygraph but that is because a psychopath believes he is telling the truth. I am sure others here can verify if I am remembering correctly.

(In fact, didn't the person who gave him the test say that he believed BYERS believed what he was saying was truth, not necessaqrily that the examiner felt he was truthful I am pretty sure one of the two movies showed quite a bit of this polygraph test).
You are right,Laini.Although I wonder if the test was just for the documentary and if LE gave it any creedance.
Byers needs more investigation but although he is 'strange' to say the least, LE do not seem to eager to pursue him.
I guess in their books they have the perps banged up in jail and case closed...
Terry Hobbs needs to be looked at as a possible killer..
I wonder if he has been questioned.Anyone know?

[the original tez]

I think I can answer #2. I seem to remember that he did take a polygraph, in fact it was shown in the movie about this case, andinhat he "passed" the polygraph but that is because a psychopath believes he is telling the truth. I am sure others here can verify if I am remembering correctly.

(In fact, didn't the person who gave him the test say that he believed BYERS believed what he was saying was truth, not necessaqrily that the examiner felt he was truthful I am pretty sure one of the two movies showed quite a bit of this polygraph test).


Yes, the polygraph said Byers "believed" what he was saying in his answers. Personally, I think he's good for the murders and the murder of his wife.

I wish I would have seen that segment on the news. Personally, I don't believe a word that comes out of John Mark Byers's mouth, but that is just me....

[paddy01]

I sure wish someone else had seen the Mike & Juliet show besides me. I taped it on my DVR, well anyway, I think Mark Byers may have slipped up. He made statement "Those boys were killed on the ditch bank", I thought I'd heard wrong, so I made my husband watch it with me and sure enough, he heard it too. Has anybody heard that the boys were killed on the ditch bank? I thought the actual murder scene was never found, due to lack of blood evidence or have I missed something?

[Taximom]

I thought I remember something like that from watching the dvd's, but I couldn't tell you for sure what it was, paddy01. Maybe he said it there too.

I think Byers is one of those people that lie so much and so well that their bodies don't reflect anything during a lie detector test. Plus he had all that medication in him, I thought.

[paddy01]

I thought I remember something like that from watching the dvd's, but I couldn't tell you for sure what it was, paddy01. Maybe he said it there too.

I think Byers is one of those people that lie so much and so well that their bodies don't reflect anything during a lie detector test. Plus he had all that medication in him, I thought.

Taximom, do you still have the dvd's? If you do, will you please look at them again & let me know if he said that. I'd bet my life he knows more than he's telling, and I think he had something to do with his wife's death also.

[Taximom]

I'm sorry, paddy, I already sent them back to Netflix. Tez just watched them recently so maybe she remembers?

[kimberdawn]

Tomorrow night(12/19) Larry King will be interviewing Damien Echols . This is the same day that there will be a rally at the state capitol to try and get Gov. Bebe to end this horrible injustice. It was terrible tragedy that those little boys were murdered, but so is keeping three innocent men in prison .

[Taximom]

Thanks for the info, kimberdawn! This should be interesting.

[the original tez]

Taximom, do you still have the dvd's? If you do, will you please look at them again & let me know if he said that. I'd bet my life he knows more than he's telling, and I think he had something to do with his wife's death also.

I will try to remember what he said. I took a lot of notes on the DVDs. Give me a few days, I have out-of-state company....(((Good Lawd say a prayer for me!!!)))

Kimberdawn, I didn't know about the rally until today, and I'm not going to be able to go. Hopefully, I will be able to watch it on the news. I will be there in spirit though!!!! Thanks for the heads-up!!!!!

[the original tez]

Here's an article I ran across about what the governor has to say...I'm really shocked...LOL

~~~SNIP~~~

Governor Beebe said Tuesday that he is not considering commuting or pardoning the three men, who were convicted in the 1993 slaying of three eight-year-old boys in West Memphis.

Beebe, speaking to reporters after an event Tuesday, said that Baldwin, Echols and Misskelley should go first to courts in seeking to either receive a new trial or win their freedom.

However, Beebe acknowledged that DNA evidence provides "a level of scientific certainty." When asked if he was considered commuting or pardoning the three, Beebe said "No. Absolutely not."

http://www.katv.com/news/stories/1207/481579.html (http://www.katv.com/news/stories/1207/481579.html)

The bolding is mine. I am just shocked, I tell ya, shocked!!! NOT!!!

[kimberdawn]

The incompetence and corruption of Arkansas judicial system and law enforcement is unreal. There is NO evidence that links Damien, Jason, or Jessie to the murders , a key witness for the prosecution admitted she lied and with the new dna evidence they still can't get a new trial and Bebe won't consider pardoning them :banghead: It just doesnt make sense, this state is so screwed up.

[paddy01]

Tomorrow night(12/19) Larry King will be interviewing Damien Echols . This is the same day that there will be a rally at the state capitol to try and get Gov. Bebe to end this horrible injustice. It was terrible tragedy that those little boys were murdered, but so is keeping three innocent men in prison .

So glad you mentioned this, I don't usually watch Larry King so would have missed it. Thanks, this case has driven me nuts.

[paddy01]

I will try to remember what he said. I took a lot of notes on the DVDs. Give me a few days, I have out-of-state company....(((Good Lawd say a prayer for me!!!)))

Kimberdawn, I didn't know about the rally until today, and I'm not going to be able to go. Hopefully, I will be able to watch it on the news. I will be there in spirit though!!!! Thanks for the heads-up!!!!!

Oh, thank you Tez, hope you remember. I've watched that Mike & Juliet show that I recorded on my DVR so many times that my husband is threatening to destroy it. Can't wait for Larry King tonight!

sorry for posting 2 in a row.

[the original tez]

The incompetence and corruption of Arkansas judicial system and law enforcement is unreal. There is NO evidence that links Damien, Jason, or Jessie to the murders , a key witness for the prosecution admitted she lied and with the new dna evidence they still can't get a new trial and Bebe won't consider pardoning them :banghead: It just doesnt make sense, this state is so screwed up.

You are preaching to the choir kimberdawn! I found an article that isn't available online, and I'm going to post the highlights later on tonight. The gist of the article is that Beebe will do the right thing eventually and let these three go. First though, the author seems to think Beebe will vacate Echol's death sentence and give him LWOP and then the rest will fall into place. We shall see...I am not holding my breath....

[kazzbar]

You are preaching to the choir kimberdawn! I found an article that isn't available online, and I'm going to post the highlights later on tonight. The gist of the article is that Beebe will do the right thing eventually and let these three go. First though, the author seems to think Beebe will vacate Echol's death sentence and give him LWOP and then the rest will fall into place. We shall see...I am not holding my breath....Time is running out for Echols..
I recently watched Paradise Lost again...what a crazy,loon Byers is.He came off as just over the top. I think he is certainly capable of anything..
Will be trying to watch Larry King tonight..
I am very eager to see Damian interviewed by him..
I so want to jump of the fence..I just need to be pushed.
Nothin would make me happier than for thise case to be reviewed totally ..

[cenasangel]

How much time does Damien have before his appeals run out and his sentence is carried out. Also have they ever released Melissa Byers Autopsy report ???

[kimberdawn]

Melissa Byers autopsy report can be found here as well as almost every other piece of evidence and documents that apply to this case http://callahan.8k.com/documents_az.html There are lots of important and interesting documents, images and court transcripts. Also another informative site is http://jivepuppi.com/jivepuppi_home.html.

[cenasangel]

So basicly that means they can't determine why Melissa Byers died is because she had that much wrong with her in the first place, though ive yet to hear of anyone who has died from bad gall stones.

[Taximom]

This should have been a 2-hour special!! I watched it, but I don't think enough came out that would push someone off the fence one way or another. I'll give credit to LK for asking good questions!

I think that Damien was very composed and mature. I was proud of him.

Not much was said about the new DNA evidence. I was surprised by that.

I'm not sure bashing the prosecutor and LE at every turn works in his favor, but maybe that's what has to be said at this point.

I was surprised to hear Byers' change of heart, although I wonder if he's just glad the new DNA isn't implicating him!

Overall, I think this gave them the publicity they need. It sounds like it's still going to be a while before anything major happens.

Here's the transcript from tonight's show:
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0712/19/lkl.01.html

[kimberdawn]

I agree Taximom, it was good for publicity, but it wasn't enough to sway someone's opinion one way or another. But at this point we just need to keep them in the spotlight as much as possible. Damien did a really good job. He is very well spoken, articulate and seems very intellegent. I have read some of his writing and it's very impressive.
It broke my heart how bad Damien looked. He was so pale and skinny and had the saddest eyes I have ever seen. I am glad he has his wife, regardless of how unconventional their marriage is , I think she brings him some kind of peace.

[KansasCutie]

I have never heard about this case before. Probably because i was...6 years old when it happened...but anyways i randomly watched the LKL interview tonight..and i feel SO bad for Damien. He looked SO sad and SO completely different from 15 years ago. He spoke so good and seemed very smart. Im completely convinced that he didnt do it. I hope he gets out, now im going to be thinking about this everyday.

[kazzbar]

I agree Taximom, it was good for publicity, but it wasn't enough to sway someone's opinion one way or another. But at this point we just need to keep them in the spotlight as much as possible. Damien did a really good job. He is very well spoken, articulate and seems very intellegent. I have read some of his writing and it's very impressive.
It broke my heart how bad Damien looked. He was so pale and skinny and had the saddest eyes I have ever seen. I am glad he has his wife, regardless of how unconventional their marriage is , I think she brings him some kind of peace.I just watched it too...seems strange that crazy Byers now says the 3 are innocent. Maybe he has stopped taking all his meds..
As for Damian I was not convinced of his innocence or guilt but do feel he is either the sadest innocent man alive or the biggest psycho ever. I just cannot make up my mind..I know I sound cruel.I do not mean to as I do feel sorry for him. He does have the saddest eyes and he is very well spoken but... there is something disarming about him..
With all the DNA evidence that is now available surely there will be answers.
Terry Hobbs needs to be investigated thoroughly.
That said, The case does as I have said before have a lot of holes in it.
Did Echols ever have an alibi for the night of the tragic killings ?

[paddy01]

After watching LKL last night I was left with an uneasy feeling, don't know what it is, maybe Damiens too composed for me. As for the DNA, how are they going to tell it's not caused by transference? I read recently there was a hair found in one boys shoelaces, could this hair have been picked up while in each others homes? I believe the hair was from Terry Hobbs, wish I could remember where I read or heard this.

[Taximom]

paddy, I hate to say it, but I felt that too. I want to believe those 3 teens couldn't do that. I watched last night's show thinking of Jeffrey McDonald and his appearances claiming innocence. He could look you in the face and say "I didn't kill my wife and children." Evidence seems to indicate otherwise.

I hope Damien was being truthful.

My husband doesn't know anything about this case, and last night's appearance didn't give him enough information to make a decision.

I really wish they had talked about the DNA evidence more and what it means to the case. I don't understand totally how the hair signifies anything, although it doesn't seem there was DNA from the 3 teens at the scene, which is a good thing for them! If anything, publicity is needed and I think they succeeded at that.

I have to start reading the transcripts and websites agai