Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 9

[WindChime]

Continue on.

[CaliKid]

Links to earlier threads:

Madeleine Pt. 8: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51774

Madeleine Pt. 7: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51218

Madeleine Thrd.: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51205

Madeleine Pt. 6: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50759

Madeleine Pt. 5: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50571

Madeleine Pt. 4: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50250

Madeleine Pt. 3: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49855

Madeleine Pt. 2: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49652

Madeleine Pt. 1: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49339

[Shazza]

I have always had the feeling that GM is very controlling, and the way I have seen Kate react to GM in the media, imo, doesnt seem normal to me.

[CaliKid]

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kidnapping.be%2Fmaddi e%2Fmaddie.html&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8

Traces of blood of somebody of deceased, probably that of Maddie, were discovered on one of the walls of the room occupied by the McCann couple.

[mic730]

I am always left pondering and speculating in this case if the parents need to be investigated more.

[Reannan]

Shazza, Colomom, and everyone else who feels burned out on this case....I just want to say, "Hang in there!" You have been an integral part of our collective efforts to help Madeleine. We may not get the answer we all wanted, but we have all been a part of the "good force" in the Universe, and I personally thank each of you for your contributions. You may not realize how much you have meant to so many others who have suffered more than they ever realized possible over the disappearance of a child they have never met. Madeleine is part of our lives now, and we cannot go back to the pre-Madeleine days of our existence. We have learned, and we have shared. I hope you follow through with us. If the parents are involved, we will deal with that together also. I am still praying for a miracle. I learned a long time ago that God is not a cosmic vending machine where you put in a prayer and out pops the result you prayed for. I also learned a long time ago that He is in control, and Grace is bestowed to those who need it. Be strong, and stay positive. The sun will rise tomorrow, and the world as we know it will continue.....with it's good and it's evil. This life is temporary, and only represents a small blip on the screen of eternity. The big picture is the one we should keep our eyes on, and it is eternal. For those who do not share my belief system, I still thank you for your concern and the goodness that you cannot escape. People who care about innocent victims like Madeleine are an integral part of the world holding itself together. God bless each of you.

[CaliKid]

Thanks Reannan. Do you by any chance post on "that" board?

http://formadeleine.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1186428340&page=26

Because I just ran across a poster with your same screen name.

[Taximom]

Greta has been teasing about the blood her entire show. Maybe it's coming up next.

[CaliKid]

TM, let us know what she says. My kids have commandeered the tv and I can't watch.

[Shazza]

Shazza, Colomom, and everyone else who feels burned out on this case....I just want to say, "Hang in there!" You have been an integral part of our collective efforts to help Madeleine. We may not get the answer we all wanted, but we have all been a part of the "good force" in the Universe, and I personally thank each of you for your contributions. You may not realize how much you have meant to so many others who have suffered more than they ever realized possible over the disappearance of a child they have never met. Madeleine is part of our lives now, and we cannot go back to the pre-Madeleine days of our existence. We have learned, and we have shared. I hope you follow through with us. If the parents are involved, we will deal with that together also. I am still praying for a miracle. I learned a long time ago that God is not a cosmic vending machine where you put in a prayer and out pops the result you prayed for. I also learned a long time ago that He is in control, and Grace is bestowed to those who need it. Be strong, and stay positive. The sun will rise tomorrow, and the world as we know it will continue.....with it's good and it's evil. This life is temporary, and only represents a small blip on the screen of eternity. The big picture is the one we should keep our eyes on, and it is eternal. For those who do not share my belief system, I still thank you for your concern and the goodness that you cannot escape. People who care about innocent victims like Madeleine are an integral part of the world holding itself together. God bless each of you.
Thanks Reannan, I have saved this as it made all the feelings I have about this case somehow seem worthwhile, if we had more of the people that post here about Madelaine, people that care for someone they dont even know, what a wonderful place we would live in. This has restored my faith in hope and humanity. I feel priviledged to be in the presence of caring people here.

[Taximom]

TM, let us know what she says. My kids have commandeered the tv and I can't watch.

Mine just went to bed! Usually I have to catch the 2nd airing. :p

I have to say though, the closer it gets to the end of the show, the more I can tell Greta won't have much more than we've read in articles. :razz:

[Taximom]

Sunday Times of London:
Blood found in McCann's apt. Brought in cadaver dogs. Very small traces found in a low level of the apt. Leading to speculation she was killed in that apt. Blood being tested, may take a while. Concerns that it is her blood.

Discussion about McCann's most recent interview. Blah blah blah.

Nothing new.

Thanks, Greta!

(I guess her show is ok if you aren't a member of WS and know everything ahead of time.)

[Reannan]

Yes, CaliKid, that has been me....I post at "that other board". I guess I see goodness in all people, which is what makes stuff like this SO hard. I think we have a world divided over Madeleine and what may have happened to her, but I believe all of us care deeply, or we would not be here. And that is SO important. This case illustrates the great ripple effect that evil can have. If her parents are involved, the people who have supported them will be devastated. They have all tried so hard, and they have meant well. I can't fault them for that. Fortunately, justice always wins out in the end....even if it takes a very long time. I wish to align myself with anyone who is one the side of "good", and I wish to strike a dagger into the heart of anyone who is on the side of "evil". Almost everyone who has posted on the boards I have encountered has basically been on the side of "good".:blowkiss:

[Taximom]

Reannan, I love your comments. :blowkiss:

[CaliKid]

Yes, CaliKid, that has been me....I post at "that other board". I guess I see goodness in all people, which is what makes stuff like this SO hard. I think we have a world divided over Madeleine and what may have happened to her, but I believe all of us care deeply, or we would not be here. And that is SO important. This case illustrates the great ripple effect that evil can have. If her parents are involved, the people who have supported them will be devastated. They have all tried so hard, and they have meant well. I can't fault them for that. Fortunately, justice always wins out in the end....even if it takes a very long time. I wish to align myself with anyone who is one the side of "good", and I wish to strike a dagger into the heart of anyone who is on the side of "evil". Almost everyone who has posted on the boards I have encountered has basically been on the side of "good".:blowkiss:

I always enjoy your posts and the attempts you make at restoring peace.

[colomom]

Shazza, Colomom, and everyone else who feels burned out on this case....I just want to say, "Hang in there!" You have been an integral part of our collective efforts to help Madeleine. We may not get the answer we all wanted, but we have all been a part of the "good force" in the Universe, and I personally thank each of you for your contributions. You may not realize how much you have meant to so many others who have suffered more than they ever realized possible over the disappearance of a child they have never met. Madeleine is part of our lives now, and we cannot go back to the pre-Madeleine days of our existence. We have learned, and we have shared. I hope you follow through with us. If the parents are involved, we will deal with that together also. I am still praying for a miracle. I learned a long time ago that God is not a cosmic vending machine where you put in a prayer and out pops the result you prayed for. I also learned a long time ago that He is in control, and Grace is bestowed to those who need it. Be strong, and stay positive. The sun will rise tomorrow, and the world as we know it will continue.....with it's good and it's evil. This life is temporary, and only represents a small blip on the screen of eternity. The big picture is the one we should keep our eyes on, and it is eternal. For those who do not share my belief system, I still thank you for your concern and the goodness that you cannot escape. People who care about innocent victims like Madeleine are an integral part of the world holding itself together. God bless each of you.

Thank you so much Reannan, you have no idea how much your post has touched my heart. I was ready to call it a night, turned off the laptop, was lying here thinking "why has God forsaken us when we have prayed so hard?". I decided I would log on one more time and then I found your post. I believe that God has spoken to me through you! That was exactly what I needed to hear to give me the strenghth to solider on until we find justice and peace for Madeleine. No matter where that leads us. I am with you, I know that the people who supported the McCanns have done so from the goodness of their hearts. Their compassion and support has been without reservation. There is no evil in that. It will be much harder for them than for those that suspected otherwise.

Not only do they deserve compassion but so do the McCanns. I do not think that anyone should walk away from a crime, I believe that a price must be paid, a mesage must be sent that we must never, ever harm our children and if we do, we must pay a price. I will ask God to work in his way and time and I will not ask for more. I will not ask for anything...

Madeleine would not want us to be harsh in judgment. She would want us to be gentle with her parents and so, I will honor her.

Thank you Reannan.

Good night all, see you all in the AM.

:blowkiss: to all of you.

[Shazza]

Thank you so much Reannan, you have no idea how much your post has touched my heart. I was ready to call it a night, turned off the laptop, was lying here thinking "why has God forsaken us when we have prayed so hard?". I decided I would log on one more time and then I found your post. I believe that God has spoken to me through you! That was exactly what I needed to hear to give me the strenghth to solider on until we find justice and peace for Madeleine. No matter where that leads us. I am with you, I know that the people who supported the McCanns have done so from the goodness of their hearts. Their compassion and support has been without reservation. There is no evil in that. It will be much harder for them than for those that suspected otherwise.

Not only do they deserve compassion but so do the McCanns. I do not think that anyone should walk away from a crime, I believe that a price must be paid, a mesage must be sent that we must never, ever harm our children and if we do, we must pay a price. I will ask God to work in his way and time and I will not ask for more. I will not ask for anything...

Madeleine would not want us to be harsh in judgment. She would want us to be gentle with her parents and so, I will honor her.

Thank you Reannan.

Good night all, see you all in the AM.

:blowkiss: to all of you.
I too felt the same about Reannan's post, but you worded it wonderfully, I have felt like giving up and not coming back to this site, but we have put to much into it, so Im here till the end. Madelaine needs all of our prayers.

[Reannan]

As I prop my eyelids up with toothpicks, and consider unpacking the bags that reside underneath them, I bid you all a good night. It has been an incredibly difficult, albiet predictable day. Once again, thank you to everyone who has been here. I hope that we can all work together in the future to see that there are better systems in the world for children who disappear. Can you imagine living in a society with no Amber Alerts? I think there needs to be an organized approach to an international problem of missing and murdered children. We can never completely stop the evil, but we can slow it down. Even one child is worth the effort. Good night everyone!

[meowy]

Maybe she hit her head or something, getting up to take a pee while her parents were out at dinner. Especially if she was medicated, she'd be more likely to have fallen.

I'm very unstable on my feet in the middle of the night due to medication, and I'm pretty used to how I react to it but I have fallen before.

Just my opinion and thoughts, and all that.

[Shazza]

Maybe she hit her head or something, getting up to take a pee while her parents were out at dinner. Especially if she was medicated, she'd be more likely to have fallen.

I'm very unstable on my feet in the middle of the night due to medication, and I'm pretty used to how I react to it but I have fallen before.

Just my opinion and thoughts, and all that.

Could be a possibility meowy, but why would they cover that up. Probably to cover up the fact that the children were left alone and did not want to tarnish their reputation.
Anything is possible, hopefully we will find out soon.

[Shelly Beach]

Reannan and Colomom, your posts brought tears to my eyes. :blowkiss:

Shazz, I agree with everything you added.
Yes we all keep coming back here for those very reasons.

Prayers and Hope for Madeleine. :blowkiss:

[Shazza]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=284465

This is a link from Australia, news we already know, but it is the first time for a while that we have heard anything at all about Madelaine for a long time over here.

[CaliKid]

From the DIARIO DE NOTÍCIAS - 07/08/2007
PJ HAS BEEN CONVINCED FOR ONE MONTH MADDIE WAS KILLED

José Manuel Oliveira

The PJ has been convinced since already one month that Madeleine McCann was killed on the 3rd May night in the apartment of the Ocean Club resort in Praia da Luz, having thus definitely put apart the abductio thesis. On the other side, the suspicions over the Maddie´s parents since her disappearance are now becoming more specific.
A source pointed out that either the portuguese police or the british one have been checking from day one the McCanns behaviour, allowing them to move freely, not only while staying in the Algarve but also on their trips to foreign countries where they have been to launch their campaign to find Madeleine.
The certainty that Madeleine died, by homicide or negligence, is based on a new clue, which consequently originated new searches by the PJ in Praia da Luz during the last two weeks and the help of the british police with their dogs especially trained for detecting dead bodies.
Since the beginning, the PJ has been convinced that the "key of the enigma" lies within the area, and has achieved new clues investigation as well as unobtrusive questioning to local people, crossing the informations, especially in the Ocean Club, with the following request to the british police to go back to the apartment where Madeleine vanished.

On the other side, according to informations obtained by the Diario de Notícias, the British child´s mother, Kate McCann, as soon as she discovered the child had vanished, would have returned back to the restaurant where she was dining together with her husband and friends, screaming "They´ve taken her". Later on, a turist who was holidaying in an apartment next to the McCanns´one would have listened to the mother screaming in a way of self-criticizing : "We failed". In the course of the investigations achieved on the first days by the Criminal Investigation Department of the PJ of Portimão next to the child´s parents, family members and friends, some contradictory versions of the facts would have been detected, originating increasing uncercainties regarding the abudction thesis admitted by the inspectors.

The inspectors are now concentrating their attention on the family and friends circle. According to the same source, some of the McCanns´friends holidaying with them in Praia da Luz are being checked by the British police and will be called back to Portugal for new examinations by the PJ.

"New" suspect
In the meantime, the PJ has revealed yesterday the existence of a new suspect in the case : a man in his 40ies, of about 1.70/1.75 m tall, dark-skinned. He would be of african origin and an english citizen. The description is similar to the first identikit realised by the PJ at the beginning of the investigation, based on the testimonies of local people who saw a man, on the 3rd May night, carrying a sleepy child, trying to avoid people walking in that place, near the resort.
The assumption put now forward is that this man would have been seen together with R. Murat just after Maddie´s disappearance, next to the media and the apartment.
But, according to testimonies, he would have been seen in the resort before the disappearance of the child, near to the McCanns´family. He has been watched over by the PJ, who is controlling his movements.

[SeriouslySearching]

So are they saying now that they think her parents killed her that night?

[Shazza]

So are they saying now that they think her parents killed her that night?
They are investigating the McCanns and their friends more thoroughly, as there is no evidence yet if they are involved in her disappearance, waiting for DNA results on the blood found in the apartment where they were holidaying.

[Salem]

I tried to post last night at the same time Windchime closed the last thread.... and lost my post.

Shazza, Colomom, Calikid, Petra and ALL - I just want to say I share your dismay in this emotional rollercoaster ride to find Maddie. And Reann, I too, appreciate your posts. Also, I will try to always keep in mind what you said about everyone posting from the goodness in their hearts, regardless which side of the camp they were on.

Some random thoughts - I can't figure out where Tuck fits in. I think he is the unnamed suspect, although I'm not sure just how dark his skin is as described in the post above...... However, he does show up in the picture with GM and the kids. Was that just coincidene or was it something more sinsiter?

I think it is time to go back and search with the dogs where the Dutch man said she would be found. I think they may find her if they use the dogs this time. Remember how upset the McCann's were over the release of that letter and the search? And then there is still the unexplained towel.

I haven't checked the news yet, but like Colomom and others at this point I am praying only for "what is best for Maddie" and letting go of any "specific requests."

And last, but not least, as it was reported early on that the McCanns never called Madeleine, Maddie, I have decided from here on out, I will never call her Madeleine again, only Maddie, unless or until her parents are found innocent in whatever happened to her.

A short, little nickname, said with love, to a lovely little three/four year old: Maddie, we are all praying for you and hope that you are returned to those that love you soon. May the angels guide you and keep you on your journey, little Maddie.

Salem

[colomom]

And last, but not least, as it was reported early on that the McCanns never called Madeleine, Maddie, I have decided from here on out, I will never call her Madeleine again, only Maddie, unless or until her parents are found innocent in whatever happened to her.

A short, little nickname, said with love, to a lovely little three/four year old: Maddie, we are all praying for you and hope that you are returned to those that love you soon. May the angels guide you and keep you on your journey, little Maddie.

Salem

Hi Salem :blowkiss:

I agree with you, perfect! I remember when GM said that she should only be referred to as "Madeleine" and not Maddie. I thought that was strange because Maddie would be such a comfortable nickname and a sign of affection. Looking back now I wonder if it was GM's way of depersonalizing Maddie. In order to facilitate the deception I think that would be necessary. I wish we had a psychologist on this board, I have many, many questions. remember my posts way back about Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

So, the McCann's had a car huh? I always wondered about that. Another piece of the puzzle....

TTYL!

[colomom]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2214913.ece

"They will be questioned separately at the headquarters of the Polícia Judiciária in Portimao as part of a review led by by British detectives of the entire investigation. They have already been interviewed twice at the headquarters."

IMHO, the PJ will find what they need at that time.

[ceeaura]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2214913.ece

"They will be questioned separately at the headquarters of the Polícia Judiciária in Portimao as part of a review led by by British detectives of the entire investigation. They have already been interviewed twice at the headquarters."

IMHO, the PJ will find what they need at that time.


Finally!!Thanks for posting this colomom.

[Rhett]

On one of the news shows last night on MSNBC it was stated that there was something found in the garden at Marat's home yesterday. It was stated that they would go back today or maybe do forensic testing of what was found.

[Jdee]

Hi Salem :blowkiss:

I agree with you, perfect! I remember when GM said that she should only be referred to as "Madeleine" and not Maddie. I thought that was strange because Maddie would be such a comfortable nickname and a sign of affection. Looking back now I wonder if it was GM's way of depersonalizing Maddie. In order to facilitate the deception I think that would be necessary. I wish we had a psychologist on this board, I have many, many questions. remember my posts way back about Narcissistic Personality Disorder?

So, the McCann's had a car huh? I always wondered about that. Another piece of the puzzle....

TTYL!

I see nothing strange in the McCann's wanting their daughter not referred to by a nickname they didn't use. I have a daughter named Manda and when she was growing up she was often referred to as Mandy which was not her name and which we both many times corrected others for using it.
This is not in defense of the McCann's... I just think they wanted to be sure the correct name for their daughter was used for whatever reason.

[Reannan]

Interesting that the Portugese LE hasn't let the Murat thing go yet. I can see this as a possible scenario:

Isn't one of the McCann party supposed to have known Murat? Possibly the Russell O'Brien guy? What if Maddie was killed, either accidentally or intentionally, by one of the other members of the party, and they used the only local contact they had.....Murat, to help dispose of the body? Under this scenario, the parents may not have known about it. It would explain Russell's wife, Jane Tanner creating the story about the man carrying the child also.

All of this is just wild speculation, and I predict the truth will be something much more mundane and unfortunately, well known to most of us here at WS's. One other thing - if the parents are involved, they need to be put on suicide watch ASAP. Psychologically, I think someone who would harm a child like Maddie, deceive the entire world, take LOTS of money from kind-hearted generous people, and travel around like jet-setters, would just snap at being discovered and outed to the world as a fraud. Then again, the enormous ego that would be required to behave this way, may just handle it like it has handled everything else. The truth is going to come out this week, IMO. Apparently, they are going to be interviewing the parents seperately. If they know anything, Kate will crack, and she will be relieved to have done so. IMHO.

[Jdee]

It's been so long now that I don't think much will come out of interviewing them seperately. By now IF they have been lieing they would have their stories so down pat. Only evidence put before them could possibly make one of them crack and possibly point the finger at the other.. OR someone else in their group but I can not imagine their protecting anyone in that group. I would like to see the LE interview the group people seperately.

[SeriouslySearching]

If the parents are involved, it isn't going to be a big surprise for many of us. Their actions all along have been questionable at best. I am finally glad to see LE is admitting taking a serious look into their involvement.

If the blood is determined to be that of Maddie's, it would only be a reasonable assumption a perp didn't stay behind to clean up the scene if he were just abducting her nor would there be signs of a struggle at the scene. This would indicate the parents covered up neccessary evidence in determining what happened to her.

What reason would the other parents of the group risk their own necks to cover up for the McCanns, if they knew they had hurt her? The way Kate acted from the beginning was suspicious and her going clear back to restaurant to get him with leaving the other two babies never made sense...but they might have been putting on a "planned" show for the other parents' to witness. Maddie could have gone "missing" before they ever decided to go to dinner with the others and could explain why they didn't return to the room as often as they stated, which was contradicted by the staff of the restaurant anyway.

I would say things are finally coming to light and answers aren't far away now. We all want justice for Maddie.

[englishleigh]

It's been so long now that I don't think much will come out of interviewing them seperately. By now IF they have been lieing they would have their stories so down pat. Only evidence put before them could possibly make one of them crack and possibly point the finger at the other.. OR someone else in their group but I can not imagine their protecting anyone in that group. I would like to see the LE interview the group people seperately.

I actually think it might. I think they need to put some pressure on Kate. I think she has been covering up at her husband's demand throughout this. I think if they put a little pressure on her, being gentle but firm, I think she might crack....

[Jdee]

Madeleine and Ylenia: Police looks for possible connections (http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/08/madeleine-and-ylenia-police-looks-for.html)

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/

[ceeaura]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=473408&in_page_id=1811&ct=5

Snip:
Madeleine parents' anger as police say she 'died in bedroom'

Last updated at 17:45pm on 7th August 2007
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/i/commentIconSm.gif Comments (63) (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=473408&in_page_id=1811&ct=5#StartComments)
Madeleine McCann was not kidnapped but died in her bedroom, Portuguese police said today.


Senior sources revealed they had "definitively abandoned" the theory that she was abducted and are convinced she died "as a result of negligence or murder". Officers from the Policia Judiciaria are to re-interview her parents, Kate and Gerry McCann, together with six friends.

[CarpeDiem]

Just a few weeks back they were so happy with what the PJ was doing and saying.

[BethInAK]

I'm withholding judgement until I hear about the dna testing on the wall. I find it very hard to believe that they wouldnt' have found it before now.

[colomom]

I'm withholding judgement until I hear about the dna testing on the wall. I find it very hard to believe that they wouldnt' have found it before now.

Definately withhold judgment, that would be prudent. Especially in light of all the conflicting bits of information swirling around out there. Excuse my language but, it is a clusterfvck.

I read on another forum that they (the PJ) did not search for blood based on the information that they had been given by the McCanns and the focus on the "abduction". Once they became suspicious of the stories that did not fit it was then that they searched for blood. I read that there was not enough to do a DNA test. My question is, how did they detect the blood (dog or luminol, or?) and why is there now enough to run a DNA test on? Perhaps more blood was found?

I agree with EnglishLeigh that if the parents are involved it is Kate that is the weak link. Only time will tell...

Have you all seen this?

From: http://mara-gamiel.blogspot.com/2007/08/theres-something-strange-going-on-here.html

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/14607_1.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/ShowLetter.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/ShowLetter2.jpg

Or this:

From: http://mara-gamiel.blogspot.com/2007/08/campaign-builds-up-to-mark-milestones.html

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/McCannsDM_468x444.jpg
Look under the red arrow, through the back window of the car, blow it up if you can.

No opinion, just interesting....

[Reannan]

BethInAk, I believe this is one of those cases where LE believed the parents, and didn't look. When they did look, they could only see it with lumniol (or some similar substance). I think it will be very interesting to hear what they find in the vehicles they searched yesterday. Apparently, they took them all to the lower level of a parking garage, and must have used the closed, private, and DARK space to use lumniol and/or fluorescent black light to inspect the vehicles of the parents, Murat and his family, and friends, and on one report, they also inspected the vehicles of the McCann party....although I only read that on a single source.

[ceeaura]

Why would someone photoshop the picture of her eye???:waitasec:

[CarpeDiem]

If the parents are involved, it isn't going to be a big surprise for many of us. Their actions all along have been questionable at best. I am finally glad to see LE is admitting taking a serious look into their involvement.

If the blood is determined to be that of Maddie's, it would only be a reasonable assumption a perp didn't stay behind to clean up the scene if he were just abducting her nor would there be signs of a struggle at the scene. This would indicate the parents covered up neccessary evidence in determining what happened to her.

What reason would the other parents of the group risk their own necks to cover up for the McCanns, if they knew they had hurt her? The way Kate acted from the beginning was suspicious and her going clear back to restaurant to get him with leaving the other two babies never made sense...but they might have been putting on a "planned" show for the other parents' to witness. Maddie could have gone "missing" before they ever decided to go to dinner with the others and could explain why they didn't return to the room as often as they stated, which was contradicted by the staff of the restaurant anyway.

I would say things are finally coming to light and answers aren't far away now. We all want justice for Maddie.

I agree with much of what you are saying but am quite surprised YOU are saying it. You left a scathing and rude post to those of us following this case and the direction many of us saw it taking back on part 7, that I believe may have been deleted. So I'm surprised, but glad you're no longer angry. :cool:

[englishleigh]

Heather, I blew up the photo. That is incredibly creepy.

[CarpeDiem]

Heather, I blew up the photo. That is incredibly creepy.

So strange and creepy. :eek:

[steph_the_sleuth]

Wow, there's some crazy developments going on. I have to admit that I *never* suspected the parents. But now...if it's true they found Madeleine's blood in the apartment, who else could it be??? I don't imagine an intruder would kill her, clean up, and then dispose of the body. It makes no sense.

I guess we need to wait for DNA evidence to come back.

I certainly hope there's closure soon. I don't know how I'll feel if it's the parents who are involved.

[colomom]

Heather, I blew up the photo. That is incredibly creepy.

So strange and creepy. :eek:

Isn't it??? Like she is watching them.....
~cue twilight zone music~

[colomom]

Why would someone photoshop the picture of her eye???:waitasec:

Exactly, it is obviously doctored but, why? For what purpose?

:waitasec:

[CaliKid]

Isn't it??? Like she is watching them.....
~cue twilight zone music~

I think this is some sort of trick using photoshop. I doubt it was an original picture.

[Jdee]

Exactly, it is obviously doctored but, why? For what purpose?

:waitasec:

I think to cast doubt...for whatever reason.

[CatLynnette]

Link:
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?storyID=8102

quote:
"...specially-trained British cocker spaniel sniffer dogs had located the smell of a dead body in the Ocean Club apartment - only possible if a cadaver had been left there for at least two hours." (bold is mine)

quote:
"Acording to Portuguese news reports, the police have virtually abandoned the kidnap theory or any hope that she may still be alive..."


Different sniffer dogs are used for different purposes. There are cadaver dogs and then there are dogs that sniff out blood. There are also sniffer dogs that follow a scent of an alive person.

The cadaver dogs found the scent of a dead person in the McCann's apartment. The blood sniffing dogs found traces of blood on the lower part of a wall in the McCann's apartment.

The article above states that a dead person was kept in the apartment for at least two hours. Police believe that this dead person was Madeleine.
There wasn't an abduction. An abduction is of an alive person.

[Taximom]

Heather, I blew up the photo. That is incredibly creepy.

Can someone post the blown-up version here? I don't know how to do that to a picture. Thanks.

[colomom]

Lusa News Agency (reprinted in Barlavento), 7 August 2007, 18:42:

PJ sees "light at the end of the tunnel" and has an idea of what might have happened

The police consider that "there is now light at the end of the tunnel" in the Madeleine McCann case, and there is "an idea of what might have happened" to the girl who disappeared in the Algarve three months again, said a source with the investigation to Lusa.

"The police see, at this time, a light at the end of the tunnel concerning the case of the missing British child," affirmed this same source, but did not provide more details.

"The working group involved with this case has an idea of what might have happened and it is with this idea as a base we are working, to develop the investigation. It is still premature to advance concrete hypotheses because they have to be consolidated."

Questioned about the detection of vestiges of blood in the apartment occupied by the McCann couple, at Ocean Club, in Lagos, the source would not confirm anything.

However, it was explained to Lusa that the police utilized an ultraviolet ray machine in the McCann apartment and that this "can detect small amounts of blood and other biological fluids."

The same source also said that "a clearly defined plan was developed more than two weeks ago and it is being followed."

Questioned about the direction of the investigation, the source reminded us that "until things are completely certain, everyone is a suspect, the parents, friends, employees and cleaning lady."

"If we look at statistics regarding these cases, in more than 80% we see the involvement of the parents, a lesser percentage of family and even fewer of friends and only 2-3 percent are strangers," stated the investigator, ending with "this is not to say that these numbers apply to this case."

Meanwhile, the ex-PJ Inspector Moita Flores said today that analysis of the blood found in the apartment "will take 10 to 12 days" and in case it is Madeleine's "it is the result of a very serious event."

"I have no doubts that, in this specific case, it will be the sign that something very serious happened, possibly death," he affirmed to Lusa.

For the criminologist, if it is found that the blood belongs to Madeleine, "the case is practically resolved, everything will become much easier."

As for the fact that the PJ is not declaring anything about the case, the ex-inspector was in agreement, justifying that "there are many issues at stake."

"There is at play more than just a child. The Portuguese Police "posto em causa" (reputation was questioned) by the media at a worldwide level and is right to be careful and protect the investigation," he confirmed.

[Taximom]

If they killed her, where is her body? That's what I can't figure out. :(

[colomom]

Video of latest McCann interview:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,91210-1278959,00.html

[colomom]

Can someone post the blown-up version here? I don't know how to do that to a picture. Thanks.

Here you are:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/CloseUp.jpg

[colomom]

If they killed her, where is her body? That's what I can't figure out. :(

I really wish I could tell you all what I think about that but, I need to wait.

It is not my place to say exactly. I will tell you though that there are caves, old wells, acres of scrubland, an old viaduct system, all within a 10 minutes drive.

Amazing what you can find with Google Earth.

[CaliKid]

Video of latest McCann interview:

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,91210-1278959,00.html

Both parents look like they're going to be sick, especially Kate. Regardless of whether they had something to do with this, they must be incredibly frightened. If they're innocent, then they're facing up to losing their daughter forever. If they aren't, it's all about to come crashing down around them.

[Taximom]

I really wish I could tell you all what I think about that but, I need to wait.

It is not my place to say exactly. I will tell you though that there are caves, old wells, acres of scrubland, an old viaduct system, all within a 10 minutes drive.

Amazing what you can find with Google Earth.

Ah, thanks, colomom. Have the McCann's been at this location before-meaning, would they be aware of places like this? I guess they could have driven around to find a spot. Thanks for replying though. I appreciate not being ignored or told to read the last 8 threads. I kept up in the beginning, but didn't when it seemed things were at a standstill. :blowkiss:
ETA: Thanks for the picture too. Goosebumps.

[colomom]

Ah, thanks, colomom. Have the McCann's been at this location before-meaning, would they be aware of places like this? I guess they could have driven around to find a spot. Thanks for replying though. I appreciate not being ignored or told to read the last 8 threads. I kept up in the beginning, but didn't when it seemed things were at a standstill. :blowkiss:
ETA: Thanks for the picture too. Goosebumps.

You are welcome!

I will just say there has been alot of jogging going on....

[CaliKid]

Early on we heard that the McCanns couldn't have driven anywhere because they didn't have a car. But it appears that their friends had rental cars because the PJ have confiscated them and are checking for blood, etc. in them. And when you consider that one of them- Russell O'Brien?- wasn't at dinner that night or was very late, then there was a window of time where someone could've disposed of her if an accident (or worse) took place.

[colomom]

Both parents look like they're going to be sick, especially Kate. Regardless of whether they had something to do with this, they must be incredibly frightened. If they're innocent, then they're facing up to losing their daughter forever. If they aren't, it's all about to come crashing down around them.

My impression was that I have never seen so much blinking in my life.

It bugs me that at 1min 50sec he says "we would never, ever put anything in the public domain that would put the investigation of Madeleine at risk". The investigation of Madeleine? The investigation? What about putting Madeleine at risk? At 2min 49sec there is a huge gulp after saying that they strongly believe that Madeleine was taken alive from the apartment. At 3min 14 secs he says it has been "difficult" that their car is being looked at. Why would it be difficult? At 3min 40sec he is really pushing how they contacted the police "from the minute....police were called very early on....we alerted them almost immediately...."

Maybe I am being picky....

[Pinkhammer]

Right, Colomom...the McCanns ran several miles every day of their vacation, and had ample time to check out the terrain.

Also, if a member of their close-knit group collaborated, (like Russ O'Brien?)...she could have been carried off down the beach to a waiting boat and been taken out a ways and dropped in the ocean. They were an athletic bunch--the Gang of Eight-- and no doubt had access to barbells or somesuch for weights.

[colomom]

Early on we heard that the McCanns couldn't have driven anywhere because they didn't have a car. But it appears that their friends had rental cars because the PJ have confiscated them and are checking for blood, etc. in them. And when you consider that one of them- Russell O'Brien?- wasn't at dinner that night or was very late, then there was a window of time where someone could've disposed of her if an accident (or worse) took place.

Cali,

They had a car! They had a Jeep, they talk about it in the video. Also here:

"The english police agents accompanied the PJ into level -4 of the parking garage in Portimao, away from photographers, and watched the collection of residues in the blue jeep that was used by the McCann couple, the vehicle that was rented by Madeleine’s family for their Algarve vacation."
(I'll look for the actual link to that article).

Strange that it was never mentioned before....

[CaliKid]

If you want up-to-the-minute news, there is a woman named Isabel who is Portuguese and posting comments on Aussie Mike's blog.

http://ionglobaltrends.blogspot.com/search/label/Madeleine%20McCann

She says that news organizations from all over the world are beginning to arrive in Praia da Luz, although there appears to be very little of the new information in the British press (seeing as how they've been sucking up to the McCanns anyway for the past 3 months).

According to Ocean Club sources, nobody has ever been known to die in the apartment the family stayed in while on vacation, either before they rented it or afterwards. If there was a dead body in the apartment, it was there while the McCanns were.

The general feeling there is that if the blood evidence is proven, it can only mean the parents or their friends were involved because nobody in his right mind would kill Madeleine and "babysit" her body for 2 hours in the apartment.

But a new worry has surfaced, that there is nowhere in Europe the perp could get a fair trial because of the heated emotions over her death and how the crime was covered up.

[CaliKid]

My impression was that I have never seen so much blinking in my life.

It bugs me that at 1min 50sec he says "we would never, ever put anything in the public domain that would put the investigation of Madeleine at risk". The investigation of Madeleine? The investigation? What about putting Madeleine at risk? At 2min 49sec there is a huge gulp after saying that they strongly believe that Madeleine was taken alive from the apartment. At 3min 14 secs he says it has been "difficult" that their car is being looked at. Why would it be difficult? At 3min 40sec he is really pushing how they contacted the police "from the minute....police were called very early on....we alerted them almost immediately...."

Maybe I am being picky....

No, you aren't. I guess I have more compassion for KM than I should. I don't like him at all, but IMO they're like trapped rats. It makes me wonder if they ever thought it would come to this. With the British media in their pockets, the huge fund and everyone insisting that Madeleine had been kidnapped, they may have felt invulnerable.

From SkyNews- A Jeep used by the couple on their holiday in Praia da Luz was still being tested by forensic science experts and sniffer dogs today. Tests have also been carried out on a car belonging to Robert Murat, the only official suspect in the case, his mother, his girlfriend, her estranged husband and Sergei Malinka, a Russian web designer who had worked for Mr Murat.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2214913.ece

So either they had a car during their holiday, or it was one they rented after Madeleine's disappearance.

And also this- The McCann family was on a week’s holiday with three other couples and their children and a single woman. The couples are Dr Russell O’Brien and Jane Tanner, both 36, from Exeter, Dr Fiona Payne, 34, and her husband David from Leicester, and Rachel Oldfield, 36, and her husband Matthew, from London.

Have we ever learned the name of the single woman? I think it might be Najova Chekaya. She was quoted in the first SOL report as saying she had no comment about the McCanns or Madeleine's disappearance.

[colomom]

Cali,

They had a car! They had a Jeep, they talk about it in the video. Also here:

"The english police agents accompanied the PJ into level -4 of the parking garage in Portimao, away from photographers, and watched the collection of residues in the blue jeep that was used by the McCann couple, the vehicle that was rented by Madeleine’s family for their Algarve vacation."
(I'll look for the actual link to that article).

Strange that it was never mentioned before....

I found this mention: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2214913.ece (at least it is in English). I think the above quote is from the Portuguese press. I have been all over the 'net and can't remember where I am finding this stuff....http://smileydatabase.com/s/322.png

[colomom]

But a new worry has surfaced, that there is nowhere in Europe the perp could get a fair trial because of the heated emotions over her death and how the crime was covered up.

I know, bring the perp here, to Denver....I would go every day!

[Pinkhammer]

Could someone answer these questions for me:

1. Madeleine was the result of in vitro fertilization. Was the sperm from Gerry, or from a donor? IOW, was Gerry Maddie's natural father?

2. When was the last time anyone OTHER THAN KATE OR GERRY saw Madeleine alive on the day she was murdered (or killed accidentally)?

[CatLynnette]

Article translated to English. Link:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&u=http://www.correiomanha.pt/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dcorreio%2Bda%2Bmanha%26hl%3Den%26safe %3Dactive%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den


quote from article:
"...It has at least three hours blank in the day of the crime: between 18h00 and 21h00 “nobody saw Madeleine with life beyond the parents”.

[CaliKid]

Could someone answer these questions for me:

1. Madeleine was the result of in vitro fertilization. Was the sperm from Gerry, or from a donor? IOW, was Gerry Maddie's natural father?

2. When was the last time anyone OTHER THAN KATE OR GERRY saw Madeleine alive on the day she was murdered (or killed accidentally)?

I don't know about the first, but there was a 6 pm to 9 pm window where the parents were supposedly the only ones known to have seen Madeleine. If the McCann friends didn't visually eye-ball the children sleeping when they supposedly checked on them from 9-10:00, the window widens. And given that the staff didn't see anyone from the table get up and leave until KM "checked" at ten, it appears that at least four hours went by.

[Reannan]

And also this- The McCann family was on a week’s holiday with three other couples and their children and a single woman. The couples are Dr Russell O’Brien and Jane Tanner, both 36, from Exeter, Dr Fiona Payne, 34, and her husband David from Leicester, and Rachel Oldfield, 36, and her husband Matthew, from London.

Have we ever learned the name of the single woman? I think it might be Najova Chekaya. She was quoted in the first SOL report as saying she had no comment about the McCanns or Madeleine's disappearance.[/quote]

I believe the person named Najova Chekaya was the aerobics instructor who worked at the resort who Gerry invited over to dinner with them that night. I rememeber because I like her name.... I don't think there has EVER been any clear answer as to who the single woman was!

[close_enough]

So are they saying now that they think her parents killed her that night?

whoa...it sure seems that way...or maybe they think the parents know something about her disappearance?

hmmm, interesting..

[CaliKid]

I believe the person named Najova Chekaya was the aerobics instructor who worked at the resort who Gerry invited over to dinner with them that night. I rememeber because I like her name.... I don't think there has EVER been any clear answer as to who the single woman was!
That could be. If so, the single friend has certainly skated under the radar.

I was checking out the SOL report this afternoon and came across this:

Gerry and Kate’s friends, who are interrogated tightly by the PJ over almost a month, refuse to clarify this contradiction, when asked by Sol. “We have a pact. This is our matter only. It is nobody else’s business”, says David Payne, another element with the group. Minutes after we tried to contact Kate, Gerry, in a fury, calls the Sol journalist: “What do you think you are doing? Do you think you’re better than the portuguese police? I’m going to forward your contact to PJ and you will have to explain yourselves”.


Maybe now we can see why GM was so angry with the SOL newspaper. They're the ones who started asking the hard questions and put this whole shindig in motion.

Anyways, I'm off for awhile. My children start school on the 20th and need new clothes. Ta-ta, I'll be back.

[colomom]

Could someone answer these questions for me:

1. Madeleine was the result of in vitro fertilization. Was the sperm from Gerry, or from a donor? IOW, was Gerry Maddie's natural father?

2. When was the last time anyone OTHER THAN KATE OR GERRY saw Madeleine alive on the day she was murdered (or killed accidentally)?

Sorry Pinkhammer, I do not know the answer to either question and I have seen many others asking the same. We will probably have to wait for the book....:rolleyes:

[Shazza]

Weird things have been happening while I sleep, the photos of Madelaine, the one where her eye looks to been doctored, is so weird, dont know what reason is needed for that to have been done. Gobsmacked.

The blood in the apartment, waiting with abated breath for the results, imo it could be anyones blood, that apartment would have been rented out to many holiday makers, and it sounds like it was only drops of blood, not enough for a large injury, but nonetheless it could be evidence that will help tell us what happened.

Finally interviewing the McCanns seperately should have been done earlier in the investigation, with so much time past, their would have their stories down pat, but hopefully Kate, as I also see her being the weakest, will crack and tell the truth.

My brain is so inundated with theories and all the information that I have read and seen on the media, that my mind is just so bamboozelled cant think staight.
I hope the truth comes out soon.

[MoonGoddess]

Just a real quickie - I really should be in bed:blowkiss:

Re:- 2. When was the last time anyone OTHER THAN KATE OR GERRY saw Madeleine alive on the day she was murdered (or killed accidentally)?

I dont think we'll have to wait for the book for that one - I think its pretty obvious from one of the Portuguese papers today (gee dont ask me which one-I've read so many) that it must have been after tea at @6pm.
(They know that rumour is 'out there' - why not offer up some of the usual sugar coated PR ****?)

BBCNews have just reported that the tests on the blood are being done here in the UK and results expected in @3 days.... what an interesting time it must be in VillaMcCann right now.....

I really hope you are all ok - I will pop in tomorrow - good to see colomom is keeping you on top......

Lets all pray this is nearing a conclusion now - although I do feel they will hold on till the bitter end - but Kate will be the one to crack first.

See you all soon:blowkiss:

[Morag]

From Cat Lynette's link on post 70:
Here are the questions we have been pondering, presented in the portuguese media. They are asking what was the deal with the monitoring! How had been organized the turns of monitoring to the children?

- Who was the adult who was in first place to make the patrol?

- And in second?

- With that time interval?

- How many children of the other couples were to sleep to the same hour?

- How it was the verification order?

And here's a very interesting question regarding BLEACH:
They had muriatic acid lixívia or in house?

- Which the supermarket where made these purchases?

- When they had bought these products of hygiene?-

These questions seem to suggest that the friends moved clothes that night- whose clothes? Their own or some belonging to the McCanns?- Some of the friends moved of clothes in this night?

And a question about who wasn't there for the whole evening:
- Some of them was absent one hour or more?

It's difficult to analyze whether these are mainstream questions being asked by mainstream media...but interesting, nonetheless.

[BethInAK]

Can someone post the blown-up version here? I don't know how to do that to a picture. Thanks.

i actually suspect that someone at the newspaper that printed the doctored photo thought something was wrong with the picture and didn't realize that the funny shape was really supposed to be in the picture. Probably not sinister.

[RoughlyCollie]

About the trial -- very few criminal trials are jury trials in Portugal.

If you want up-to-the-minute news, there is a woman named Isabel who is Portuguese and posting comments on Aussie Mike's blog.

http://ionglobaltrends.blogspot.com/search/label/Madeleine%20McCann

She says that news organizations from all over the world are beginning to arrive in Praia da Luz, although there appears to be very little of the new information in the British press (seeing as how they've been sucking up to the McCanns anyway for the past 3 months).

According to Ocean Club sources, nobody has ever been known to die in the apartment the family stayed in while on vacation, either before they rented it or afterwards. If there was a dead body in the apartment, it was there while the McCanns were.

The general feeling there is that if the blood evidence is proven, it can only mean the parents or their friends were involved because nobody in his right mind would kill Madeleine and "babysit" her body for 2 hours in the apartment.

But a new worry has surfaced, that there is nowhere in Europe the perp could get a fair trial because of the heated emotions over her death and how the crime was covered up.

[CaliKid]

From Cat Lynette's link on post 70:
Here are the questions we have been pondering, presented in the portuguese media. They are asking what was the deal with the monitoring! How had been organized the turns of monitoring to the children?

- Who was the adult who was in first place to make the patrol? According to most, GM checked the children at 9:05. While checking, he ran across Jeremy Wilkins out walking with his baby.

- And in second? Supposedly Jane Tanner, Russell O'Brien's girlfriend, at 9:15. She claimed to have seen the beige pants stranger carrying a child in a blanket.

- With that time interval? Up to now, every 10-15 minutes. At 9:30 Mathew Oldfield checked the children.

- How many children of the other couples were to sleep to the same hour? They all were supposedly asleep but in other apartments.

- How it was the verification order?

And here's a very interesting question regarding BLEACH:
They had muriatic acid lixívia or in house?

- Which the supermarket where made these purchases?

- When they had bought these products of hygiene?-

These questions seem to suggest that the friends moved clothes that night- whose clothes? Their own or some belonging to the McCanns?- Some of the friends moved of clothes in this night? The way I saw it written was a question whether anyone of the McCann party changed clothes that night, suggesting someone might have had blood or bleach on him/her.

And a question about who wasn't there for the whole evening:
- Some of them was absent one hour or more? Depending on the source, Russell O'Brien was either absent, left in the middle of the meal or was late for dinner.

It's difficult to analyze whether these are mainstream questions being asked by mainstream media...but interesting, nonetheless.

This is a new piece of evidence about the use of bleach or muriatic acid. Obviously, the JP must have picked up traces of it in the blood samples. So it sounds as if they need to check out markets in the general vicinity to see if someone in the McCann party purchased bleach, if it can be tracked down at this late date. It would be shocking to discover that either the parents or a friend bought bleach that same day.

[Reannan]

Remember during the early days, the Portugese dogs tracked Madeleine to the supermarket. What are the chances of someone having had Madeleine's blood on their shoes, and that is what the dogs tracked to the supermarket? Someone with her blood on their shoes.....on a mission to purchase bleach to clean up a crime (or accident) scene.

[CarpeDiem]

This is a new piece of evidence about the use of bleach or muriatic acid. Obviously, the JP must have picked up traces of it in the blood samples. So it sounds as if they need to check out markets in the general vicinity to see if someone in the McCann party purchased bleach, if it can be tracked down at this late date. It would be shocking to discover that either the parents or a friend bought bleach that same day.

Especially if they had been using a laundry service at the resort and hadn't needed it before. They couldn't excuse it on being for something the twins soiled. Or could they?

[CarpeDiem]

Remember during the early days, the Portugese dogs tracked Madeleine to the supermarket. What are the chances of someone having had Madeleine's blood on their shoes, and that is what the dogs tracked to the supermarket? Someone with her blood on their shoes.....on a mission to purchase bleach to clean up a crime (or accident) scene.

OMG. That really is a possibility I have not heard or considered before.

[ceeaura]

Remember during the early days, the Portugese dogs tracked Madeleine to the supermarket. What are the chances of someone having had Madeleine's blood on their shoes, and that is what the dogs tracked to the supermarket? Someone with her blood on their shoes.....on a mission to purchase bleach to clean up a crime (or accident) scene.


:eek: Interesting question Reannan!Things that make you go hmmmmmm.I had not considered that either.

[Shazza]

Remember during the early days, the Portugese dogs tracked Madeleine to the supermarket. What are the chances of someone having had Madeleine's blood on their shoes, and that is what the dogs tracked to the supermarket? Someone with her blood on their shoes.....on a mission to purchase bleach to clean up a crime (or accident) scene.
Very smart post, you are good, that is definitely something I hope the LE are looking into.

[Reannan]

Sadly, at this point in the investigation, the advantage of hindsight begins to kick in. I think it would be worth while to look at the original information in context with the new information. I think some people on other boards are postulating that a cloth which had been exposed to a body could have been in the room, perhaps to carry Maddie away in. I suppose a serial killer could have snuck into the room carrying a blanket that they had used previously on a dead body, and whisked Maddie away. That just doesn't "fit" in my opinion, however. The timing is all wrong. Unfortunately, I do not believe there was enough time for a stranger to cause her harm, clean up the evidence, and remove the body.....or for that matter, even remove the living Madeleine. So where does that leave us? Off to think and ponder.....:waitasec:

[Shazza]

Sadly, at this point in the investigation, the advantage of hindsight begins to kick in. I think it would be worth while to look at the original information in context with the new information. I think some people on other boards are postulating that a cloth which had been exposed to a body could have been in the room, perhaps to carry Maddie away in. I suppose a serial killer could have snuck into the room carrying a blanket that they had used previously on a dead body, and whisked Maddie away. That just doesn't "fit" in my opinion, however. The timing is all wrong. Unfortunately, I do not believe there was enough time for a stranger to cause her harm, clean up the evidence, and remove the body.....or for that matter, even remove the living Madeleine. So where does that leave us? Off to think and ponder.....:waitasec:
I just cant think or ponder about any more scenerios or theorys of what could have happened and by whom, totally brain dead. But everything I have read, and heard and seen just leads me back to the McCanns, I truly believe that they were involved or know something that they have not told us.

[CaliKid]

It really makes me go grrrrr! that this sort of testing wasn't done early on in the investigation.

[Reannan]

Ok...let's think through this together. My brain hurts when I am by myself. First, let's go with the perpetrator being among the family, or one of the McCann party.

Question No. 1: Is everyone, in the party privy to the truth about what happened?

POSSIBLE ANSWER: (IMO) - There does seem to be at least a concerted effort by several in the party to tell different parts of the "story". I think LE has also noticed this, and that is why they have interviewed Russell O'Brien, Rachel Oldfield, and Fiona Payne on more than one occasion. Additionally, wasn't Russel O'Brien missing for a period of time from dinner? His wife, Jane Tanner told the story about seeing a man carrying a child, yet this was refuted by the gentlemen who saw Gerry outside the apartment about the same time.....Jeremy Wilkins, I believe his name was. Jeremy had played tennis with Gerry that week.....I was never clear on whether Gerry knew him prior to the vacation, or if it was just someone he met while on vacation. In any case, the location of where Jeremy and Gerry spoke would have necessitated Jeremy seeing Jane and/or the man she claims to have seen. Jeremy steadfastly states he did NOT see this mysterious man carrying a child.

Ok.....now ya'll's turn (notice the Southern drawl :)). What do you guys think?

[colomom]

Remember during the early days, the Portugese dogs tracked Madeleine to the supermarket. What are the chances of someone having had Madeleine's blood on their shoes, and that is what the dogs tracked to the supermarket? Someone with her blood on their shoes.....on a mission to purchase bleach to clean up a crime (or accident) scene.

I guess it would depend on what type of sniffer dog was used, blood, trail or cadaver and if they can detect one or the other or 2 or 3...BUT...awesome Reannan...keep thinking...that was awesome!!! :clap:

[CaliKid]

Ok...let's think through this together. My brain hurts when I am by myself. First, let's go with the perpetrator being among the family, or one of the McCann party.

Question No. 1: Is everyone, in the party privy to the truth about what happened?

POSSIBLE ANSWER: (IMO) - There does seem to be at least a concerted effort by several in the party to tell different parts of the "story". I think LE has also noticed this, and that is why they have interviewed Russell O'Brien, Rachel Oldfield, and Fiona Payne on more than one occasion. Additionally, wasn't Russel O'Brien missing for a period of time from dinner? His wife, Jane Tanner told the story about seeing a man carrying a child, yet this was refuted by the gentlemen who saw Gerry outside the apartment about the same time.....Jeremy Wilkins, I believe his name was. Jeremy had played tennis with Gerry that week.....I was never clear on whether Gerry knew him prior to the vacation, or if it was just someone he met while on vacation. In any case, the location of where Jeremy and Gerry spoke would have necessitated Jeremy seeing Jane and/or the man she claims to have seen. Jeremy steadfastly states he did NOT see this mysterious man carrying a child.

Ok.....now ya'll's turn (notice the Southern drawl :)). What do you guys think?

It was reported that the real reason the PJ brought the three McCann friends into a room with Robert Murat was to watch them play off each other, not to get a confession from RM. By all accounts, the PJ has known since early on that Madeleine was not kidnapped and suspected she died in the apartment. They wanted to watch the McCann friends together to see if anyone slipped up.

[Shazza]

It was reported that the real reason the PJ brought the three McCann friends into a room with Robert Murat was to watch them play off each other, not to get a confession from RM. By all accounts, the PJ has known since early on that Madeleine was not kidnapped and suspected she died in the apartment. They wanted to watch the McCann friends together to see if anyone slipped up.
Wonder if they did slip up, I havent heard anything about what happened in that interview, would love to know. There are still things Im sure the LE know that we do not, thats why its so hard to put all the pieces together I think, hoping the LE are closer to learning the truth, this waiting is killing me.

[Reannan]

Ok...here is the next question to ponder:

Question No. 2: The McCann party included Gerry and Kate, and three other couples (Matthew and Rachel Oldfield, Russel O'brien and Jane Tanner, and David and Fiona Payne) and a third single woman. WHY have we never learned her name?

POSSIBLE ANSWER: (IMO) -
1) she is somehow connected, and no one wants to mention her name. This doesn't make sense to me.

2) she is a stripper, or someone of ill repute that LE and the media are sensitive to the privacy of the McCann party and doesn't want to even acknowledge that she was there. I could buy this one. But it leads to another question......why has she not been interviewed? Maybe she has, and we just don't know about it. I wish Portugal had their own version of the National Enquirer.

3) no one knows her name....even the people in the McCann party....and she is now missing also. If this were the case, that would be a huge piece of evidence, wouldn't it? Maybe that is what Gerry meant when he said in the interview today that "they had additional information" that he wasn't able to share. Food for thought.

I look forward to YOUR opinions about this question. It has been the elephant in the room for a long time in my mind.

[colomom]

Ok...let's think through this together. My brain hurts when I am by myself. First, let's go with the perpetrator being among the family, or one of the McCann party.

Question No. 1: Is everyone, in the party privy to the truth about what happened?

POSSIBLE ANSWER: (IMO) - There does seem to be at least a concerted effort by several in the party to tell different parts of the "story". I think LE has also noticed this, and that is why they have interviewed Russell O'Brien, Rachel Oldfield, and Fiona Payne on more than one occasion. Additionally, wasn't Russel O'Brien missing for a period of time from dinner? His wife, Jane Tanner told the story about seeing a man carrying a child, yet this was refuted by the gentlemen who saw Gerry outside the apartment about the same time.....Jeremy Wilkins, I believe his name was. Jeremy had played tennis with Gerry that week.....I was never clear on whether Gerry knew him prior to the vacation, or if it was just someone he met while on vacation. In any case, the location of where Jeremy and Gerry spoke would have necessitated Jeremy seeing Jane and/or the man she claims to have seen. Jeremy steadfastly states he did NOT see this mysterious man carrying a child.

Ok.....now ya'll's turn (notice the Southern drawl :)). What do you guys think?

No, I don't think so. I do not think think that if the McCanns are involved in Maddie's disapearance that they would have taken the risk of involving others. Think....you have an accident and a child dies, you are panicked, you only have your spouse there and you talk...."what should we do? We cannot tell anyone because they will take our kids/jobs/put us in jail...what do we do? We have to protect the twins...OK, OK...what do we do.....we must hide her body because if they examine her they will find evidence of the violence (blood), we cannot let them examine her...what do we do?" Talking for a long time..."we must...no she is our baby...I cannot bear it...we must, we have no choice...no, please don't take her away...there must be another way....go put the twins to bed....I'll clean up...I'll take care of everything...OK, OK..."

A drive, a secluded spot, a leaving....

"We must present a normal face, we must make them believe that a kidnapping happened...I will fix it...fix the door, leave it open, fix the shutters to look like a break-in...you must check the children at 10:00 and come running back to the bar yelling....make them think an abduction...don't worry about leaving the twins alone, they will be fine for the 15 minutes, there is no danger...the twins will sleep, they will definately sleep, deep, deep sleep...we will tell them all that she has been taken, call the police...OMG she has been taken...NO WAY she wandered..she was taken!! Everyone, please come, please help us search...look in the apartment...it was a kidnapping...see? See the evidence...the jimmed shutters....the open door? See? See? The twins are fine, they are sleeping....look around the apartment...see the evidence? OMG, we "have failed" our children....we were so sure it was safe...they said child friendly...we had no need to worry..no need to fear....OMG my child, my beautiful girl...."

After that, phone calls were made and others were brought into it, in the UK and with the T9...the family had friends (in all the right places, like down the street) and the support rolled in...why not? The T9 were told "in order to be sure that they were not "investigated for neglect, after all the children were left alone...we must be sure that only one synopsis (story) is presented...let us deal with the LE/media/questions...we will cover for you all, you do not need to worry".

Then the media took the story, asked for pictures...lovely pictures...someone loved that child, look at the pictures...adoring pictures...they were shown all over the world, people all over the world were afraid...very afraid...and then...the interviews, they were told that they must stay in the public eye and make sure the story was told far and wide...they must....OK, OK...we can do that...the interviews...

People watched, people cocked their heads....hmmmm, that's not right....why is that not right? That is not FEAR, they talk of Pedo rings and horrible things....and that's not right.....that is calm/disconnected/not fearful...that is not right....

Then the tangled web that was woven was examined...by 20 million eyes...

I could go on but that is all I can do tonight....

All of the above is a story, a imagination, an opinion....PURE speculation.

I love you all....:blowkiss:

Goodnight...

[CaliKid]

Things I'd like to know right now:
1. Does the DNA from the straw and bottle in Belgium match Madeleine? (Not that I believe it does, but I certainly hope so.)
2. Is it true that the scent detected by the cadaver dog means a body was really in the apartment for at least two hours, and is the PJ certain that nobody else has died in it previously or since?
3. How big was the bloodstain found in the bedroom and what was the pattern- drips, cast off, splatter or the kind you'd find from a small body being thrown against the wall? Could the bloodstains have been caused by something so common as a nosebleed?
4. Are they certain the blood came from Madeleine and not one of the twins?
5. Who is the man they think is a new suspect? He has been reported as both Portuguese and British, and what does he have to do with the case? Why haven't they picked him up? What is his relationship to Robert Murat, and does that mean that RM is still a suspect?
6. Does the man still in the hospital in Switzerland who is part of the Ylenia case have anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance? Has he been questioned? If so, what did they learn?

Anything else?

[CaliKid]

No, I don't think so. I do not think think that if the McCanns are involved in Maddie's disapearance that they would have taken the risk of involving others. ~snip~ Then the tangled web that was woven was examined...by 20 million eyes...

I could go on but that is all I can do tonight....

All of the above is a story, a imagination, an opinion....PURE speculation.

I love you all....:blowkiss:

Goodnight...

I think it's possible that KM didn't know what had happened right away- not until after the fact. But I do consider that maybe Russell O'Brien is involved- the mystery man who wasn't at the dinner for part of the evening. He may have been the one suggesting a sedative or giving it. He may even have cleaned up after the crime.

[colomom]

6. Does the man still in the hospital in Switzerland who is part of the Ylenia case have anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance? Has he been questioned? If so, what did they learn?

Anything else?

Scratch #6 Cali..the man in the hospital was shot by the perp (because he came upon the crime scene?) and the perp killed himself later. Evidence was found that the perp had contact with the baby girl Ylenia...grrrrrrr.

Connection...the perp (dead) was in the "Algarve" (not necessarily in PDL) at the time Maddie went missing...

the wild geese fly...but where is Ylenia???

[Shazza]

Colomom and CaliKid, once again brilliant posts, still so many unanswered questions and new theories that could have happened.

If I were the McCanns and was somehow involved I would want the attention to be taken away from me not be put in the spotlight like they are, but on the other hand keeping in the spotlight to them looks like they are caring parents who really do want their daughter found, it seems like a double edged knife, either of them make sense imo.

[colomom]

I think it's possible that KM didn't know what had happened right away- not until after the fact. But I do consider that maybe Russell O'Brien is involved- the mystery man who wasn't at the dinner for part of the evening. He may have been the one suggesting a sedative or giving it. He may even have cleaned up after the crime.

But...I write a good story don't I???

[Reannan]

Colomom, GREAT hypothesis of the horrible events of that night...if the McCann's were involved. CaliKid, I think you have put almost three months worth of investigation into a very succinct and accurate summary of the unanswered questions. The biggest problem with everything thus far, is the TIME involved. Kidnapping of a strangers beautiful child in the middle of a busy resort, and covering up the accidental or intentional murder of a child by family or friends takes TIME. I guess I am settling into the camp of one of the following scenarios (not necessarily listed here in any priority):

1. A total stranger took Madeleine. If this happened, they had to whisk in, apparently harm her (per dog sniffing evidence), and whisk her away. They had about what......45 minutes to do this? But then, you have Jane Tanner seeing someone, who Jeremy Wilkins should have also seen, but didn't.

2. The parents killed her. How on earth, did they just then go to dinner and begin the elaborate story that has been going on for almost three months? Unbelievable!

3. One of the McCann party nutted up...probably in a drunken state, and killed her. This actually makes some sense. It would explain the other people's stories in an effort to cover for their friend or relative. The only reason I can think of for the McCann's covering this would be their fear of loosing their other two children. Perhaps, they fear that if the truth of the nature of their vacation were known, the twins would be removed from the home. Perhaps, not an unfounded fear.

I have many other questions, but I can't do any more tonight. How about you guys? What questions are keeping you awake at night? I am obsessed with this case. I want Madeleine to come home. If she can't I want justice, and I want to freaking KNOW what happened!!!!!:banghead:

[CaliKid]

Scratch #6 Cali..the man in the hospital was shot by the perp (because he came upon the crime scene?) and the perp killed himself later. Evidence was found that the perp had contact with the baby girl Ylenia...grrrrrrr.

Connection...the perp (dead) was in the "Algarve" (not necessarily in PDL) at the time Maddie went missing...

the wild geese fly...but where is Ylenia???

Yes, I know. But there was speculation that one of the two men was in the Algarve when Madeleine disappeared. It's worth looking into, especially if it turns out Maddie's parents are not responsible and she was kidnapped.

[Reannan]

Colomom, you write a KICK AZZ story!

[CaliKid]

Colomom, GREAT hypothesis of the horrible events of that night...if the McCann's were involved. CaliKid, I think you have put almost three months worth of investigation into a very succinct and accurate summary of the unanswered questions. The biggest problem with everything thus far, is the TIME involved. Kidnapping of a strangers beautiful child in the middle of a busy resort, and covering up the accidental or intentional murder of a child by family or friends takes TIME. I guess I am settling into the camp of one of the following scenarios (not necessarily listed here in any priority):

1. A total stranger took Madeleine. If this happened, they had to whisk in, apparently harm her (per dog sniffing evidence), and whisk her away. They had about what......45 minutes to do this? But then, you have Jane Tanner seeing someone, who Jeremy Wilkins should have also seen, but didn't.

2. The parents killed her. How on earth, did they just then go to dinner and begin the elaborate story that has been going on for almost three months? Unbelievable!

3. One of the McCann party nutted up...probably in a drunken state, and killed her. This actually makes some sense. It would explain the other people's stories in an effort to cover for their friend or relative. The only reason I can think of for the McCann's covering this would be their fear of loosing their other two children. Perhaps, they fear that if the truth of the nature of their vacation were known, the twins would be removed from the home. Perhaps, not an unfounded fear.

I have many other questions, but I can't do any more tonight. How about you guys? What questions are keeping you awake at night? I am obsessed with this case. I want Madeleine to come home. If she can't I want justice, and I want to freaking KNOW what happened!!!!!:banghead:

1. According to the PJ, Madeleine's body was in the apartment for at least two hours after she died.

2. They must be some great actors to have carried that off, which is why I wonder if only GM knew ahead of time and not Kate. It's easy to pass sincere sorrow (of accidentally killing your child) off as grief over her "kidnapping". And with the way the media team was put together, the McCanns have been fairly well insulated ever since.

3. Hmmm, do you think it might be possible for a family friend to have checked on the kids and Madeleine needed to use the toilet? Maybe someone was tipsy and fell on her. It sounds crazy, even to me, but I'm grasping at straws here.

And yes, colomom, you write a super story!

[Shazza]

1. According to the PJ, Madeleine's body was in the apartment for at least two hours after she died.

2. They must be some great actors to have carried that off, which is why I wonder if only GM knew ahead of time and not Kate. It's easy to pass sincere sorrow (of accidentally killing your child) off as grief over her "kidnapping". And with the way the media team was put together, the McCanns have been fairly well insulated ever since.

3. Hmmm, do you think it might be possible for a family friend to have checked on the kids and Madeleine needed to use the toilet? Maybe someone was tipsy and fell on her. It sounds crazy, even to me, but I'm grasping at straws here.

And yes, colomom, you write a super story!
CaliKid, Colomom and Reannan, YOU ALL ROCK, you put into words what Im thinking, anything is possible with this case, hope the LE have good sleuths like you guys here on WS.

[Reannan]

Sazza, you better include youself in that group! One of the greatest frustrations with this case has been the lack of information. I actually think the Portugese LE has done a fairly good job with this case....considering that they were immediately dealing with an international event with individuals who were very connected, and could easily fit the role of either victim or suspect. I am disappointed that they didn't find the blood evidence within the first day or so, but not particualry surprised given the circumstances. I think if nothing else comes from this case, we need an international version of the Amber Alert system, and Portugal needs to revisit the validity of their "secrecy" laws. With the advent of the internet.....it is just ridiculous.

[CaliKid]

I think the Portuguese LE has done a fantastic job considering the pressure that the British government put on them to get this crime solved.

[colomom]

1. According to the PJ, Madeleine's body was in the apartment for at least two hours after she died.

2. They must be some great actors to have carried that off, which is why I wonder if only GM knew ahead of time and not Kate. It's easy to pass sincere sorrow (of accidentally killing your child) off as grief over her "kidnapping". And with the way the media team was put together, the McCanns have been fairly well insulated ever since.

3. Hmmm, do you think it might be possible for a family friend to have checked on the kids and Madeleine needed to use the toilet? Maybe someone was tipsy and fell on her. It sounds crazy, even to me, but I'm grasping at straws here.

And yes, colomom, you write a super story!

You all will keep me up all night....:)

MAYBE...the kids were picked up at about 5:00 from the creche, taken home for baths and bed, about 6:00 trying to get them to settle and sleep (hoping to meet friends at 7:30) kids are hyper, won't settle, frustration sets in....call is made to cancel babysitter. It is now 6:00 or so...

Lots of discussion...finally agreed that she should be hidden...say at 8:00...that allows 30 minutes to take her somewhere and return for dinner (I know that is tight but...)

It was reported that they arrived late at 8:30 to the tapas bar so we are talking an hour and a half of "acting"...possible.

Kate did look very distraught in those early interviews...guilt? Grieving her child accidently killed? But later, when the thought of a pedo ring...nothing. No horror, fear, suicide (that's what I would feel)...just calm..."amazing composure and stoic grace"....~cocked head~ hmmmmm...

#3..posssible but then why would GM and KM cover for some stupid drunk friend that accidentally killed their daughter...I wouldn't. No freaking way. Keep grasping because that magic straw is still out there...IMHO

Thanks you guys, about the "story" that was hard to write....

Cali you have a PM!

[Shazza]

Sazza, you better include youself in that group! One of the greatest frustrations with this case has been the lack of information. I actually think the Portugese LE has done a fairly good job with this case....considering that they were immediately dealing with an international event with individuals who were very connected, and could easily fit the role of either victim or suspect. I am disappointed that they didn't find the blood evidence within the first day or so, but not particualry surprised given the circumstances. I think if nothing else comes from this case, we need an international version of the Amber Alert system, and Portugal needs to revisit the validity of their "secrecy" laws. With the advent of the internet.....it is just ridiculous.
I agree that the Portugese LE have done a good job, and now the British LE are involved, it means looking through new eyes, which hopefully they could pick up something that wasnt before, but I really do think they know more than they are telling, and doing so as to not jeopardise the investigations. The blood in the apartment intrigues me, whereabouts on the walls was the blood found, was it in sight so you could see it or behind a cupboard, drawers or bed, I think where the blood is found could be a good clue as to how it got there and if it is Madelaines, and if it is a old stain from way back. What do you think.

[Reannan]

I think the blood was invisible to the naked eye, and was only found because the British dogs hit on it, and they used luminol and fluorescent black light to see it. It had been cleaned. Probably with clorox. That in itself tells a LOT!!!

[colomom]

I think the Portuguese LE has done a fantastic job considering the pressure that the British government put on them to get this crime solved.

:clap:

And they are very careful not to make accusations without solid evidence, thought they may have made "suggestions" to gauge reactions. That is, after all, what cops do...

[CaliKid]

I was going to say it could mean a lot, depending on how big the stain is. But then I got to thinking. You go on vacation and lets say someone has an accident involving a non-life-threatening amount of blood. More than likely it would be on the floor, not the wall. But lets just say for argument's sake it is on the wall. Are you going to use bleach to wash it off? Probably not. You'd clean it up well with detergent. Unless you're a doctor, maybe, and you know that an unsterilized might be a hazzard for someone. Ooops, I think I just talked myself out of the argument.

[colomom]

I agree that the Portugese LE have done a good job, and now the British LE are involved, it means looking through new eyes, which hopefully they could pick up something that wasnt before, but I really do think they know more than they are telling, and doing so as to not jeopardise the investigations. The blood in the apartment intrigues me, whereabouts on the walls was the blood found, was it in sight so you could see it or behind a cupboard, drawers or bed, I think where the blood is found could be a good clue as to how it got there and if it is Madelaines, and if it is a old stain from way back. What do you think.

Check you out Shazza...you sleuth you...I am very happy you did not go anywhere. I too, would like more details about the blood and the location. I think it would really tell alot about how it got there. Another piece of the puzzle yet to be placed...

I believe that the PJ has been diligent and have worked very hard. I believe that the British LE have helped with the more expensive methods of crime detection. They have worked together and the timetable is not as important as some people think (ie: "why didn't they find the blood on day one??") As long as the perp is still around, they can take their time and make sure they have got it right!

[CaliKid]

I just checked out the Formadeleine boards, and I swear the people in there must go around with blinders on. I know they have good hearts and want to find Madeleine as much as we do, but it's frustrating to listen to "oh the McCanns can't have hurt their daughter".

[Shazza]

I just checked out the Formadeleine boards, and I swear the people in there must go around with blinders on. I know they have good hearts and want to find Madeleine as much as we do, but it's frustrating to listen to "oh the McCanns can't have hurt their daughter".
It like hitting your head against a brick wall when people dont keep their minds open to other possibilities.

[CaliKid]

Some interesting reading for us to start our new day:

The First Post, article titled "The hypocrisy of our concern for ‘Maddie’"
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/?storyID=6921

Belfast Telegraph, article titled "Can Eddie Find Maddie"
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2844015.ece

There's more, but most are just replays of the information we already have.

[petra]

Swedish radio news just reporting that the Belgium press are saying that the DNA taken in Benelux area at restaurant -straw and bottle-from possible Madeleine sighting is NO MATCH.

Will try to find some link to a printed article.

[Shazza]

Swedish radio news just reporting that the Belgium press are saying that the DNA taken in Benelux area at restaurant -straw and bottle-from possible Madeleine sighting is NO MATCH.

Will try to find some link to a printed article.

Another hope dashed.

[CaliKid]

That is so sad. Despite reports in Portugal, I was so hoping it would be her.

[petra]

Another hope dashed.

That is so sad. Despite reports in Portugal, I was so hoping it would be her.

Belgian national newspaper-
http://www.hln.be/hlns/cache/det/art_547539.html?wt.bron=homeArt4

also Dutch telegraph reporting same thing

Nothing in PT or UK yet.

Still hoping for a miracle!!

[CaliKid]

Here's a translated copy of the Dutch article:

http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/68657451/Fristi_niet_van_Maddie.html?p=3,1

Fristi (Milkshake) not of Maddie

AMSTERDAM - The girl that end last month on a terrace in Tongues has been seen, is not the missing British toddler Maddie McCann. On the bottle Fristi that the bewuste girl on the Belgian terrace drank, its no tracks found that correspond with the DNA of Maddie.

That report Belgian media. The police comes today with further communications. Despite the negative dna-test yet well is sought to the car of the men that the unknown blond girls with self had. It goes round a black Volvo station vehicle of recent exemplarily with a license plate that begins with VUV.

They're asking on another blog if the little girl could've been the missing Ylenia since it appears she was 5-6 years old.

[petra]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,70131-1279012,00.html?f=rss

=====================SNIPPET====================== ======

Breaking News

No DNA Match To Madeleine McCann

Updated: 10:07, Wednesday August 08, 2007
<H2>A DNA test on a drinks bottle used by a young girl in Belgium does not match that of missing Madeleine McCann.

</H2>http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1531600.jpg Sighting claim in Belgium

A child therapist had said she was "100% sure" she saw the missing four-year-old at a restaurant in the Flemish town of Tongeren, not far from the Dutch border, on July 28.
The witness said the girl was with a couple, a Dutch man and an English-speaking woman, who were acting strangely and not like "normal parents".
But Belgian Police say the drink bottle held no DNA traces linked to Madeleine.
Sightings of four-year-old Madeleine have been reported all over Europe and further afield since she was snatched from her family's holiday apartment in Portugal on May 3.==================================SNIP

[Shazza]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,70131-1279012,00.html?f=rss

=====================SNIPPET====================== ======

Breaking News

No DNA Match To Madeleine McCann

Updated: 10:07, Wednesday August 08, 2007
<H2>A DNA test on a drinks bottle used by a young girl in Belgium does not match that of missing Madeleine McCann.

</H2>http://static.sky.com/images/pictures/1531600.jpg Sighting claim in Belgium

A child therapist had said she was "100% sure" she saw the missing four-year-old at a restaurant in the Flemish town of Tongeren, not far from the Dutch border, on July 28.
The witness said the girl was with a couple, a Dutch man and an English-speaking woman, who were acting strangely and not like "normal parents".
But Belgian Police say the drink bottle held no DNA traces linked to Madeleine.
Sightings of four-year-old Madeleine have been reported all over Europe and further afield since she was snatched from her family's holiday apartment in Portugal on May 3.==================================SNIP

If it wasnt Madelaine I wonder if it is indeed Ylenia, they should test it for her DNA as the description of the little girl better suited Ylenia than Madelaine.

[CatLynnette]

Has anyone seen this yet? Has this been posted yet?

Link:
http://dn.sapo.pt/2007/08/08/sociedade/escutas_confirmam_morte_madeleine.html

(be patient, the link may be slow to open up)

Translated from Portuguese

Diário de Noícias

8 August 2007

"Wiretaps confirm Madeleine's death"

quote:
"New searches on land and at sea over the past two days
since for two days the interception of communications - telephones (cell and land lines) and emails realized during the recent operations undertaken by the PJ and the British police of Madeleine's parents and the "nuclear family" has been the determining factor for the investigators to conclude that the British child died in the apartment, in which she was sleeping with her siblings, on the night of 3 May in Praia da Luz."

"The police continue to focus attention in the local area far from the watchful eyes of locals and especially journalists. For at least the last two days there have been new searches on land and the waterfront, particularly in the Lagos area, with the help of British dogs and the GNR."

[englishleigh]

No match does not shock me. I think we all knew it wouldn't be, considering the latest news. So sad, though, for Madeleine. SO sad...her parents also knew it wouldn't be her or they would have been in Belgium, just like they knew it wasn't her in all those sightings and did not go. We all can see where this is going.

Another obvious point that my daughter made last night is, these people are both doctors and at least ONE of their friends traveling with them, Russell O'Brien, is a physician, too. Dealing with a dead body and even doing/knowing about horrendous things to do the body in order to hide it more easily would not have been beyond them or revolting to them. It being their child would/should have been the most disturbing thing to them, not the biology of it.

[englishleigh]

Has anyone seen this yet? Has this been posted yet?

Link:
http://dn.sapo.pt/2007/08/08/sociedade/escutas_confirmam_morte_madeleine.html

(be patient, the link may be slow to open up)

Translated from Portuguese

Diário de Noícias

8 August 2007

"Wiretaps confirm Madeleine's death"

quote:
"New searches on land and at sea over the past two days
since for two days the interception of communications - telephones (cell and land lines) and emails realized during the recent operations undertaken by the PJ and the British police of Madeleine's parents and the "nuclear family" has been the determining factor for the investigators to conclude that the British child died in the apartment, in which she was sleeping with her siblings, on the night of 3 May in Praia da Luz."

"The police continues to focus attention in the local area far from the watchful eyes of locals and especially journalists. For at least the last two days there have been new searches on land and the waterfront, particularly in the Lagos area, with the help of British dogs and the GNR."

OMG, it never occurred to me that they would be bugging the McCanns' apartment/villa and tapping their phone calls...this sounds like definitive proof, you guys, if true. If true, they have the McCanns themselves talking to family and friends about what really happened, probably on tape.

:(

CatLynette...awesome find!!!

[Jdee]

From G's blog..."I spent a couple of hours this afternoon working on forthcoming events but did manage to squeeze in a much-needed haircut!"

I know I am nit pickin but really this is beyond me.... A "hait cut"... He is posting about "hair" in a time of crisis?

[englishleigh]

From G's blog..."I spent a couple of hours this afternoon working on forthcoming events but did manage to squeeze in a much-needed haircut!"

I know I am nit pickin but really this is beyond me.... A "hait cut"... He is posting about "hair" in a time of crisis?

He is really the limit...:snooty: :sick: :mad: :( It's all about HIM...this whole sad event has always only been about GERRY McCANN. Not about MADELEINE.

[LaWanda]

He is really the limit...:snooty: :sick: :mad: :( It's all about HIM...this whole sad event has always only been about GERRY McCANN. Not about MADELEINE.


He needs to look good for his Booking Photo. :innocent: Well, we can only hope, anyway....

[Jdee]

I agree.. and you know early on I was certain they were not involved... and maybe they are or maybe they are not.. but regardless I do not like these people.

[SeriouslySearching]

It sounds like they are finally piecing it together now. They just needed one critical puzzle piece to connect the rest and the blood in the apartment could be it. They should have found this within hours of her going missing instead of all this time having passed, but at least they seem to be on the right trail now.

The article I read sounded as if there was enough blood on that wall to call it a homicide, IMO. People don't normally bleed on walls. It would be very difficult TO bleed on a wall actually without force of some kind behind a splatter, being thrown, or placed against it during/immediately after an incident. (It was also stated in another article that no one had died in that apartment before the McCann's visit which I guess was according to the hotel people.)

I think I recall how the McCanns didn't seem to encourage the searches earlier...or did I dream that?!

[englishleigh]

I agree.. and you know early on I was certain they were not involved... and maybe they are or maybe they are not.. but regardless I do not like these people.

If they have wiretaps of them talking about what happened in the apartment and that Maddie is definitely dead, they are TOAST. There will be no doubt if what CatLynnette posted is fact....

[Jdee]

I just read this on another board...

"QUOTE ''As I said yesterday, information I have from PDL indicates that there's a Court Order recently issued in the UK to place the twins in care.."

Has anyone heard anything about this?

[Jdee]

THis is an interesting article... "Kate McCann being framed by Portuguese police"

http://tinyurl.com/38f2bv

[englishleigh]

THis is an interesting article... "Kate McCann being framed by Portuguese police"

http://tinyurl.com/38f2bv

In my humble opinion, the only thing Kate is possibly guilty of is participating in the cover-up.

[colomom]

I just read this on another board...

"QUOTE ''As I said yesterday, information I have from PDL indicates that there's a Court Order recently issued in the UK to place the twins in care.."

Has anyone heard anything about this?

I heard/read that too Jdee but I did not see a link to a source for that information. I will see what I can find....

[colomom]

In my humble opinion, the only thing Kate is possibly guilty of is participating in the cover-up.

I agree.