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gretchen
02-24-2004, 12:58 AM
I'm just wondering if this is an "active" case. Sure, it considered "opened," but is anything really being done to solve this murder?
Are there any new clues? How many people are assigned to the investigation? Any new developments? WHO is leading this "investigation?"
Sorry if I sound discouraged, I guess I am. I only hope that one day a new D.A. will be elected, one who really cares about dear JonBenet and very little about politics. One can hope, right?

Shylock
02-24-2004, 08:36 AM
Supposedly the DA has a man investigating the case. But there have been no reports from the Boulder papers of that person talking to any of the witnesses or asking any questions around town. In fact, not too long ago the paper reported the guy was also assigned to work on the Koby case which is an active case that has to have more priority than a 7 year old murder case. I think having the guy supposedly reviewing the JBR case is only a political move by the DA to keep the Ramseys from filing any law suits against the BPD.

Boulder is done with this case. They know they will never be able to prove in court which Ramsey caused her death. All this case is now is a waste of taxpayer money that could go to other resources to benefit the citizens of Boulder. Steve Thomas was right--unless someone confesses, this case is history.

cookie
02-24-2004, 08:42 AM
Sounds like the good DA of Boulder and all the other officials are scurring around trying to figure out how to handle all the sexual assaults and other wrong doings that have been reported about the college there. To me Boulder is THE weirdest place I have ever been, and I've been to a LOT of places in my 53 years. Another place in Colorado that I wouldn't give you two cents for the whole darn place is Pagosa. Beautiful coutry in Colorado, but lots of strange strange people live there. HA

maketoast
02-24-2004, 09:44 AM
Supposedly the DA has a man investigating the case. But there have been no reports from the Boulder papers of that person talking to any of the witnesses or asking any questions around town. In fact, not too long ago the paper reported the guy was also assigned to work on the Koby case which is an active case that has to have more priority than a 7 year old murder case. I think having the guy supposedly reviewing the JBR case is only a political move by the DA to keep the Ramseys from filing any law suits against the BPD.

Boulder is done with this case. They know they will never be able to prove in court which Ramsey caused her death. All this case is now is a waste of taxpayer money that could go to other resources to benefit the citizens of Boulder. Steve Thomas was right--unless someone confesses, this case is history.
*****
I agree Shylock. That is the thing…SUPPOSEDLY! I have heard the same about the guy investigating the case, but nothing, IMO, has been done. And if it has, it is very little. I believe Keenan was on top of this case when she was elected, good political move, but now it has kind of fallen behind. I agree, unless someone confesses to this case…will we ever know? Maybe Boulder will get a DA who makes this their top Priority, and will not rest until justice is found for this little girl!

FULTON
02-24-2004, 10:23 AM
The only major news from this case was when they submitted the dna of the "intruder" to the FBI to be logged in the data base.I agree taking the case from the Boulder P.D. was just to stop a law suite and for political reasons only.I also agree with Steve Thomas, who solved this case long ago, a confession is the only way this homicide will be able to be brought to trail unless some new technology comes down the road giving law enforcement a new tool to find the real perp.

BrotherMoon
02-24-2004, 12:12 PM
The only thing that is active concerning this case in Boulder is the active burying of it. To the culture of Boulder Evil is not to be discerned let alone dealt with. Their approach is to imagine their way to a perfect self image while demeaning those that deal with material reality as being less intelligent. This is a horribly shallow interpretation of eastern philosphy and religion.

"I want to know what became of the changes we waited for love to bring. Were they only the fitfull dreams of some greater awakening?"-Jackson Brown.

Boulder does not want to awaken from the childish anticipation of hippiedom. In fact it wants to establish that dream world as a physical reality. The only way to do that is to create people like Koby and Arndt who are devoted to abstract imagination and distracted from the "good old boy" white, male
European establishment that the sixties vilified.

This Leftist house of cards is unstable, and there is a conservative base in Colorado just waitng for it to crumble. Prosecution of the Ramseys could be one of the ways the conservatives move to discredit Leftism.

LovelyPigeon
02-24-2004, 02:56 PM
gretchen, these 4 articles will probably bring you up to speed on the current status of the case:

http://www.longmontfyi.com/ramsey/storyDetail03.asp?ID=33
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/ramsey/article/0,1299,DRMN_1296_2025865,00.html
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/6054895.htm
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/12/27/jonbenet.dna/

Cherokee
02-24-2004, 04:00 PM
I believe Keenan was on top of this case when she was elected, good political move, but now it has kind of fallen behind.

Yes, and why do you think Keenan has let the case fall behind? Could it be because she's seen the evidence files and the depositions, and now she too knows the Ramseys are lying. But Keenan is over a barrel ... if she admits there's nothing left to investigate, Lin Wood will be all over her like a cheap suit and suing Boulder in a heartbeat.

So Keenan only has one option ... keep the "investigation" open indefinitely ... say she's got someone reviewing the files and checking "leads." This bogus investigation can be dragged out until Keenan decides she's had enough and leaves the Boulder DA's office, and then it's somebody else's headache.

Here's Keenan's working motto: Pay lip service to a "new" investigation and hope the Ramseys eventually get tired of having Lin Wood holding a lawsuit stick over Boulder's head.

Fulton is right ... it will take a Ramsey confession to solve this case. They have NEVER told the truth of what happened that night.

Brother Moon is right ... Boulder is still holding on to the infantile hippie dream of a man-made utopia ...

"Imagine there is no evil ... the answer is blowing in the wind... so feel the vibes, and love the one you're with."



IMO

BrotherMoon
02-24-2004, 04:09 PM
Those articles prove my point. If you think they represent any attempt at justice from the Boulder DA then you are just the pigeon the Boulder culture likes to feed it's garbage to.

SisterSocks
02-24-2004, 04:24 PM
I'm just wondering if this is an "active" case. Sure, it considered "opened," but is anything really being done to solve this murder?
Are there any new clues? How many people are assigned to the investigation? Any new developments? WHO is leading this "investigation?"
Sorry if I sound discouraged, I guess I am. I only hope that one day a new D.A. will be elected, one who really cares about dear JonBenet and very little about politics. One can hope, right?


I do understand your worries . I hope the investigation is in full motion-- but, there is always the nagging thought that its completely stalled.

I have found in JBTPF a small thing--- I think hasn't been talked about. I hope to start a new thread on it later today since i'm not at home right now.


Thanks
Socks
Teresa

River
02-24-2004, 07:30 PM
BTW- I will keep saying this until the cows come home. I've called the DA's office in Boulder and the Ramseys are still suspects. That is a fact. The nit wit swamp witch can spin it backwards all day long, but it's a fact. The Ramsey's are still being investigated.

Call for yourself.

BrotherMoon
02-24-2004, 08:54 PM
And what ever is being reported by the "investigators" is handed over to superiors where it is filed and sealed.

Call for yourself, that's a joke. You call Boulder you get Boulder.

vicktor
02-24-2004, 11:04 PM
The investigation is probably still going on, but I doubt if it is accomplishing much. Regardless of who they look at, there are only a few pieces of evidence that could directly tie the perp to the crime. Other than this, the next best thing would be a confession to another person(s). Appointing a new D.A. won't change this fact. Its likely,IMO, that the person responsible has been looked at and interviewed by the BPD. If you look at cases that are not random abductions/murders ala Ridgway or Bundy, I would bet that in 90% of them the actual perp was contacted or interviewed by LE. As it turns out one of the main suspects had a friend who phoned in a tip to the BPD of an indirect confession the suspect had made to him.

Nehemiah
02-25-2004, 08:34 AM
Toth is the one who most recently said that there was lots going on with the case. Of course, he is noticeably absent right now.

IMO

Shylock
02-25-2004, 09:09 AM
Toth is the one who most recently said that there was lots going on with the case.
I think Toth was refering the to the amount of BS coming out of the swamp. That's where Toth gets his case information, so that would be his barometer.

popcorn
02-25-2004, 11:35 AM
I think we ought to collectively pro activate the forums. We should make a citizen's arrest :behindbar to at least get them into the courtroom.

Ivy
02-25-2004, 11:56 AM
Toth's last post before he dropped WS like a hot potato was "There is alot going on right now. One heck of alot!!" A few of us, including Nehemiah, tried to press him for more info, but he high-tailed it to the Swamp after that post, never to return here. None of his posts at The Swamp indicate that he has inside knowledge of anything special going on in the case, so maybe he was just pulling our leg--or maybe he's being secretive there too. Somehow, even before his last post, I got it in my head that Toth knows that someone in particular is being investigated. I wish there were a way we could find out if someone is.

Toth
03-01-2004, 11:42 AM
The use of the blanket may well have been to avoid forensic evidence from his clothing being deposited. He dragged her onto the blanket and use the blanket to carry and then conceal her.

I consider the strangulation to have been slow and to have involved a multititude of relaxations and re-tightenings, thats why she was clawing at her neck and apparently clawed at him too, getting some rogue dna under her nails, the same dna that he left in her panties.

Anyone who enjoyed the strangulation sure wasn't going to make it easy on her by bashing her head in first so she wouldn't feel the terror as he watched her suffer and listen to his "Your father will not come rescue you", "there is no Jesus", "there is no Heaven" and "your mother will be hurt forever".

Staging, posing? Why would the person who "set the stage" want to destroy it?

ICU
03-01-2004, 11:57 AM
The use of the blanket may well have been to avoid forensic evidence from his clothing being deposited. He dragged her onto the blanket and use the blanket to carry and then conceal her.

I consider the strangulation to have been slow and to have involved a multititude of relaxations and re-tightenings, thats why she was clawing at her neck and apparently clawed at him too, getting some rogue dna under her nails, the same dna that he left in her panties.

Anyone who enjoyed the strangulation sure wasn't going to make it easy on her by bashing her head in first so she wouldn't feel the terror as he watched her suffer and listen to his "Your father will not come rescue you", "there is no Jesus", "there is no Heaven" and "your mother will be hurt forever".

Staging, posing? Why would the person who "set the stage" want to destroy it?


Your thoughts on the victim being dragged seems odd considering that it she was only six years old, no need to drag, just pick her up, now garroting also controls the vocal response so the victim can not scream ref Jack the Ripper when he cut there throat.
The relaxing and the tightening is to control, the head bashing may have been to finish the job, to be sure she would be dead. Over kill, it may have been something he felt needed to be done, but it was not necessary because of the garroting, perhaps it was the anger he felt towards her, or it was his fantasy.

Toth
03-01-2004, 12:02 PM
perhaps it was the anger he felt towards her. I don't think he felt any particular anger or rage at JonBenet at all. Not ever.

Shylock
03-01-2004, 12:03 PM
thats why she was clawing at her neck and apparently clawed at him too, getting some rogue dna under her nails, the same dna that he left in her panties.
Please quote the lines from the autopsy that state there were claw marks on her neck.
You can't claw anything when your skull has been split in two.

Barbara
03-01-2004, 12:04 PM
The use of the blanket may well have been to avoid forensic evidence from his clothing being deposited. He dragged her onto the blanket and use the blanket to carry and then conceal her.

The use of the blanket would leave MORE forensic evidence than not. Blankets will pick up more fibers, etc. than a bare floor. Once again, had he dragged her, she would show scrapes or other injuries, especially if she was already dead. AND...why would he have to drag her at all? If she wasn't too heavy to carry from her bedroom all the way to the basement with a stopover in the kitchen for some pineapple, then why would she be too heavy to carry?

I consider the strangulation to have been slow and to have involved a multititude of relaxations and re-tightenings, thats why she was clawing at her neck and apparently clawed at him too, getting some rogue dna under her nails, the same dna that he left in her panties.

Wrong! She was not clawing at the rope or her neck. If she had been fighting for her life, you can bet, there would be REAL DNA under her nails, not degraded or rogue DNA. If she was clawing, there would be real big marks on her neck. The strangulation being slow and methodical with relaxations and retightenings are all a product of your imagination and theory and not based on real facts at all. There is no evidence other than your own creativity that there was any slow or methodical tightening and retightening of the garrotte

Anyone who enjoyed the strangulation sure wasn't going to make it easy on her by bashing her head in first so she wouldn't feel the terror as he watched her suffer and listen to his "Your father will not come rescue you", "there is no Jesus", "there is no Heaven" and "your mother will be hurt forever".

First you say the whole act was to get even with John Ramsey, now you say that the perp wanted JBR to feel the terror. Actually, I am not sure just how cognitive a six year old child would be in being aware of the "terror" yet to come. Another product of your imagination and I might add, a little scary. None of these things happened

Staging, posing? Why would the person who "set the stage" want to destroy it?

Nobody set the stage. All the staging and overkill was done AFTER the deed. Intruders don't stage. Families and loved ones stage.

Barbara
03-01-2004, 12:07 PM
I don't think he felt any particular anger or rage at JonBenet at all. Not ever.

Anyone who enjoyed the strangulation sure wasn't going to make it easy on her by bashing her head in first so she wouldn't feel the terror as he watched her suffer and listen to his "Your father will not come rescue you", "there is no Jesus", "there is no Heaven" and "your mother will be hurt forever".

Didn't you just post the above. Both quotes are yours. Make up your mind. If he had no anger toward JonBenet, there was no need to make her suffer or tell her those terrible things right?

ICU
03-01-2004, 12:29 PM
Didn't you just post the above. Both quotes are yours. Make up your mind. If he had no anger toward JonBenet, there was no need to make her suffer or tell her those terrible things right?

Hello Barbara,

That is my wife’s name also, I have always loved that name, you and my wife have very strong opinions on any subject she tackles.

Are you sure that the body was wrapped in the blanket? or was the blanket just there? Do you think that the parent did it? Please forgive me for making mistakes about the discovery of the body, it has been a while sense I read the reports, and I am new on this site. Do you agree that it was a brutal murder? It was pretty cold to go through all that staging, I said anger to tooth, I left out rage as you know that is the combination for the killer to get his high. That kind of kill sounds like it had some fantasy involved, it was bondage and control, the ear marks of a serial killer, someone seasoned at it, how was the getaway staged?

ICU
03-01-2004, 12:34 PM
I don't think he felt any particular anger or rage at JonBenet at all. Not ever.

No anger not at all, why do you feel there was no anger or rage towards the child?
How was she murdered?

Barbara
03-01-2004, 12:39 PM
Hello Barbara,

That is my wife’s name also, I have always loved that name, you and my wife have very strong opinions on any subject she tackles.

Are you sure that the body was wrapped in the blanket? or was the blanket just there? Do you think that the parent did it? Please forgive me for making mistakes about the discovery of the body, it has been a while sense I read the reports, and I am new on this site. Do you agree that it was a brutal murder? It was pretty cold to go through all that staging, I said anger to tooth, I left out rage as you know that is the combination for the killer to get his high. That kind of kill sounds like it had some fantasy involved, it was bondage and control, the ear marks of a serial killer, someone seasoned at it, how was the getaway staged?

Thanks for the compliment. Are you in the medical profession? I can't help but ask with a hat called ICU. :)

By all accounts, and this is a fact, the body was found wrapped in a blanket. Her own father recalls it as "papoose-like". So someone took the time to wrap her up after killing her. Yes, this was a brutal murder. I think the staging was not meant to be cold, jut to point away from the member of the family that killed her. There are so many theories floating around. If Patsy or John killed her, then I think it was an accident and was covered up, not to be cold, just to cover it up to look like an intruder. If Burke killed her (a strong theory for me) then I have no problem with the scenario that he was enraged with his sister and the parents covered it up.

All my theories involve a family member. I have no doubt that her parents loved her, but I truly believe something went horribly wrong that night and they felt they had to cover it up for their only remaining child together. oops, did I say that out loud? :)

ICU
03-01-2004, 12:40 PM
The use of the blanket would leave MORE forensic evidence than not. Blankets will pick up more fibers, etc. than a bare floor. Once again, had he dragged her, she would show scrapes or other injuries, especially if she was already dead. AND...why would he have to drag her at all? If she wasn't too heavy to carry from her bedroom all the way to the basement with a stopover in the kitchen for some pineapple, then why would she be too heavy to carry?



Wrong! She was not clawing at the rope or her neck. If she had been fighting for her life, you can bet, there would be REAL DNA under her nails, not degraded or rogue DNA. If she was clawing, there would be real big marks on her neck. The strangulation being slow and methodical with relaxations and retightenings are all a product of your imagination and theory and not based on real facts at all. There is no evidence other than your own creativity that there was any slow or methodical tightening and retightening of the garrotte



First you say the whole act was to get even with John Ramsey, now you say that the perp wanted JBR to feel the terror. Actually, I am not sure just how cognitive a six year old child would be in being aware of the "terror" yet to come. Another product of your imagination and I might add, a little scary. None of these things happened



Nobody set the stage. All the staging and overkill was done AFTER the deed. Intruders don't stage. Families and loved ones stage.


Barbara not just family stage there victims, look at the Elizabeth Short murder 1946, she was cut in half and left in the park by a path so she would be found, the killer was proud of his sadistic torture of the woman, her body was staged, she had no family member in California at the time, her family was in the east.

Toth
03-01-2004, 12:42 PM
How was she murdered?cruely, brutally and with great enjoyment.
But her killer was not angry at her. He did not kill her for anything she did, he did not kill her because she was a little girl, he killed her because she was John Ramsey's little girl. And he enjoyed doing it, but he was not angry with her at all.

Barbara
03-01-2004, 12:54 PM
Barbara not just family stage there victims, look at the Elizabeth Short murder 1946, she was cut in half and left in the park by a path so she would be found, the killer was proud of his sadistic torture of the woman, her body was staged, she had no family member in California at the time, her family was in the east.

I think I got a little confused. What you refer to is "posing" the body...and you are quite right about how killers will do that. It is very common among sadistic sexual killers. What I refer to is staging of the crime scene, not posing of the body. The body was wrapped, not for posing, but for guilt? comfort? who knows for sure? nobody.


BTW Toth,

ALL murders are cruel. Even a split second gunshot through the head, while a quick death is still CRUEL and brutal. Just ask anyone who has lost a relative to a murder (that includes me). They are all cruel and painful for those left behind.

ICU
03-01-2004, 12:58 PM
Thanks for the compliment. Are you in the medical profession? I can't help but ask with a hat called ICU. :)

By all accounts, and this is a fact, the body was found wrapped in a blanket. Her own father recalls it as "papoose-like". So someone took the time to wrap her up after killing her. Yes, this was a brutal murder. I think the staging was not meant to be cold, jut to point away from the member of the family that killed her. There are so many theories floating around. If Patsy or John killed her, then I think it was an accident and was covered up, not to be cold, just to cover it up to look like an intruder. If Burke killed her (a strong theory for me) then I have no problem with the scenario that he was enraged with his sister and the parents covered it up.

All my theories involve a family member. I have no doubt that her parents loved her, but I truly believe something went horribly wrong that night and they felt they had to cover it up for their only remaining child together. oops, did I say that out loud? :)

I’m not in the medical profession, ICU is a play on “I See You” not Intensive Care Unit, You are the first to notice that. So you think it was the brother? As you know all of the serial killers they have caught have had a horrible upbringing in there young lives, parents divorced or separated the child was in foster homes or lived with relatives and were sexually molested, parents in prison or alcoholics, you know the route, what kind of trauma did the brother have, was he born with a deformity or was he malnourished, did he have a head injury, is there something in his back ground that would cause this kind of crime, did he show cruelty to small animals? Cases in mind Jeffery Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Edward Kemper, just to name a few of the people with really bad upbringings.

ICU
03-01-2004, 01:12 PM
cruely, brutally and with great enjoyment.
But her killer was not angry at her. He did not kill her for anything she did, he did not kill her because she was a little girl, he killed her because she was John Ramsey's little girl. And he enjoyed doing it, but he was not angry with her at all.


Toth, the serial killer does not think like we do, he is a psychopath a person with no feelings for another person, the only one he cares about is himself. All rules do not apply to him, in his mind the only rules are the one’s that he can benefit from which is his own rules, it is all about him. He is self centered almost Spock like in feelings, so he is confused about love and hate, he can not love anyone but himself, now he is confused with emotions because he has none, it is a practiced response and not real. Now when he has a fantasy it is a violent one because that is how he gets his high, it is the feeling that he can do what ever he wants to the victim, remember it is just for his pleasure not the victim, so if the victim is in pain he feels that he is getting what he wants and that it is a real response and not fake one like prostitutes do to get there customers off, so anger and rage is a stimulus not an emotions kind of like when you are feeling good about sex he feels good about the anger and rage, it makes him feel powerful when the victim is helpless and weak.

ICU
03-01-2004, 01:17 PM
I think I got a little confused. What you refer to is "posing" the body...and you are quite right about how killers will do that. It is very common among sadistic sexual killers. What I refer to is staging of the crime scene, not posing of the body. The body was wrapped, not for posing, but for guilt? comfort? who knows for sure? nobody.


BTW Toth,

ALL murders are cruel. Even a split second gunshot through the head, while a quick death is still CRUEL and brutal. Just ask anyone who has lost a relative to a murder (that includes me). They are all cruel and painful for those left behind.

Barbara, I am sorry to hear about your loss.
Thank you for correcting me on the difference between posing and staging, you are right.

Barbara
03-01-2004, 01:26 PM
I’m not in the medical profession, ICU is a play on “I See You” not Intensive Care Unit, You are the first to notice that. So you think it was the brother? As you know all of the serial killers they have caught have had a horrible upbringing in there young lives, parents divorced or separated the child was in foster homes or lived with relatives and were sexually molested, parents in prison or alcoholics, you know the route, what kind of trauma did the brother have, was he born with a deformity or was he malnourished, did he have a head injury, is there something in his back ground that would cause this kind of crime, did he show cruelty to small animals? Cases in mind Jeffery Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Edward Kemper, just to name a few of the people with really bad upbringings.

We really don't know if this was a serial killing. Naturally, IMO, this was not. I think something went terribly awry that night, either by Patsy or Burke. I tend, (for no reason I can put my finger on,) to think that it was NOT John. Just a feeling, nothing more or less. A serial killer would have killed prior and since. This case is not like any other. There were none before JBR was murdered where a ransom note and a body are together, and none since. Also, serial killers do not usually know their victims; they are random. I say random in that the victims are not known to one another, not that the victims weren't stalked and known to the murderer. In this case, the murderer knew exactly who the victim and the family was. The note addressed John Ramsey and seemingly knew about his "business". This was not a stranger.

As far as Burke, I don't really know much about him other than the tidbits reported by various people who do know him. Some say he was a strange little boy with a nasty temper toward his sister and others say he was as normal as any other 9 year old. We just don't know what is and what isn't true. However, having said that, I feel reading the accounts of his behavior that he had some emotional issues that nobody will publicly admit to.

A nine year old boy who is laughing and jumping around playing in the church during his sister's funeral has issues that need to be addressed. Not normal IMO.

A nine year old boy is cognitively capable of realizing the seriousness of a sibling's or parent's death and will respond with grief.

This nine year old boy did neither. He seemingly showed no emotion over his sister's death and had no interest during police interviews to ask any questions about his sister

That is STRANGE

TLynn
03-01-2004, 01:28 PM
The blanket was in the basement dryer (deduced from Housekeeper & Patsy statements) - the Barbie nightgown was there possibly from static cling - that's all.

The "garrote" was primitive in it's making - not capable of being used for control. The rope was wrapped around JonBenet's neck and it's questionable if it was actually a "slip knot." (Autopsy calls it a double knot).

This wasn't some long, torturous basement murder scene as some would describe.

On the surface, it may look that way - but not when you study it further. Her wrists were loosely tied without a purpose - and the used piece of tape was put over her mouth after death.

Whoever made the ligature had no idea it would be referred to as a "garrote." Basically it was the broken paint brush "handle" that gave it that name.

ICU
03-01-2004, 02:20 PM
The blanket was in the basement dryer (deduced from Housekeeper & Patsy statements) - the Barbie nightgown was there possibly from static cling - that's all.

The "garrote" was primitive in it's making - not capable of being used for control. The rope was wrapped around JonBenet's neck and it's questionable if it was actually a "slip knot." (Autopsy calls it a double knot).

This wasn't some long, torturous basement murder scene as some would describe.

On the surface, it may look that way - but not when you study it further. Her wrists were loosely tied without a purpose - and the used piece of tape was put over her mouth after death.

Whoever made the ligature had no idea it would be referred to as a "garrote." Basically it was the broken paint brush "handle" that gave it that name.

How much time did the killer spend with her in the basement?
Her wrist were loosely tied without a purpose, could it have been loosened by the father when he found her?
How do you know it was a used piece of tape on her mouth and why put the tape on her mouth after death?
How do you know that the person whom used the legature had no idea it would be referred to as a "garrote"?
If you use a broken paint brush handle then it becomes a garrote and if it becomes a garrote, then could she be garrotted?

ICU
03-01-2004, 02:30 PM
We really don't know if this was a serial killing. Naturally, IMO, this was not. I think something went terribly awry that night, either by Patsy or Burke. I tend, (for no reason I can put my finger on,) to think that it was NOT John. Just a feeling, nothing more or less. A serial killer would have killed prior and since. This case is not like any other. There were none before JBR was murdered where a ransom note and a body are together, and none since. Also, serial killers do not usually know their victims; they are random. I say random in that the victims are not known to one another, not that the victims weren't stalked and known to the murderer. In this case, the murderer knew exactly who the victim and the family was. The note addressed John Ramsey and seemingly knew about his "business". This was not a stranger.

As far as Burke, I don't really know much about him other than the tidbits reported by various people who do know him. Some say he was a strange little boy with a nasty temper toward his sister and others say he was as normal as any other 9 year old. We just don't know what is and what isn't true. However, having said that, I feel reading the accounts of his behavior that he had some emotional issues that nobody will publicly admit to.

A nine year old boy who is laughing and jumping around playing in the church during his sister's funeral has issues that need to be addressed. Not normal IMO.

A nine year old boy is cognitively capable of realizing the seriousness of a sibling's or parent's death and will respond with grief.

This nine year old boy did neither. He seemingly showed no emotion over his sister's death and had no interest during police interviews to ask any questions about his sister

That is STRANGE

Barbara not everyone acts the way they are expected to act in a death situation, sometimes the child or adult may not be in there right thinking at the funeral, it may have been traumatic for him and this is how he was able to handle the death of his sister, there have been many reports of people acting strangely at the death of a loved one, some even blame themselves for the death, even when they were not even there at the time, trauma has a lot of side effects.

why do you have a feeling that he is guilty what is his motive?

Every thing I typed is IMO

Barbara
03-01-2004, 03:47 PM
Barbara not everyone acts the way they are expected to act in a death situation, sometimes the child or adult may not be in there right thinking at the funeral, it may have been traumatic for him and this is how he was able to handle the death of his sister, there have been many reports of people acting strangely at the death of a loved one, some even blame themselves for the death, even when they were not even there at the time, trauma has a lot of side effects.

why do you have a feeling that he is guilty what is his motive?

Every thing I typed is IMO

While I agree with the reactions of different people in different situations, for purposes of these "opinion" boards as opposed to actually sitting on a jury is that we tend to judge, if you will, by our own personal standards and experiences. In my experiences, people react differently in situations for sure. No two persons are alike, but they tend to have some common denominators in times of crisis, etc. That's what we, as human beings take into consideration when trying to evaluate any person or situation. For me, the Ramsey family had nothing in common with the families of other murder victims, whether it be their behavior, refusal to cooperate with the authorities, getting a team of lawyers not only for themselves, but for the entire family, going on CNN, etc. as the list is endless in their Atypicalities.

As for Burke....nobody really knows for sure. My theory is simple. I don't know and neither does anyone else save the murderer. My firm opinion is that the entire family knows exactly what happened that night. I do not know for sure who did what and who is covering for whom, but I do strongly believe that the entire family DOES know. As far as motive, what motive could there possibly be to murder a six year old child? No matter who committed this crime, the motive would be ridiculous. The motive would only be valid to the murderer if it was not an accident and cover up.

ICU
03-01-2004, 05:45 PM
While I agree with the reactions of different people in different situations, for purposes of these "opinion" boards as opposed to actually sitting on a jury is that we tend to judge, if you will, by our own personal standards and experiences. In my experiences, people react differently in situations for sure. No two persons are alike, but they tend to have some common denominators in times of crisis, etc. That's what we, as human beings take into consideration when trying to evaluate any person or situation. For me, the Ramsey family had nothing in common with the families of other murder victims, whether it be their behavior, refusal to cooperate with the authorities, getting a team of lawyers not only for themselves, but for the entire family, going on CNN, etc. as the list is endless in their Atypicalities.

As for Burke....nobody really knows for sure. My theory is simple. I don't know and neither does anyone else save the murderer. My firm opinion is that the entire family knows exactly what happened that night. I do not know for sure who did what and who is covering for whom, but I do strongly believe that the entire family DOES know. As far as motive, what motive could there possibly be to murder a six year old child? No matter who committed this crime, the motive would be ridiculous. The motive would only be valid to the murderer if it was not an accident and cover up.

You make a good call on your gut feeling, but it takes more than a feeling, you have to look at the work of the murder, some people say that it was John Ramsey the killer wanted to hurt, now that makes no sense, all the killer had to do was go into the bedroom of the parents and kill them both, Lizzy Borden did that, and serial killers that break into the homes at night will kill the husband first to eliminate the threat then hit his intended target. Look at the work of the killer and try to imagine a nine year old boy doing all that work. He had to be real busy and know a lot about how to kill, even if it was an accidental killing or something weird, try to imagine the Father and Mother mutilating the little girl so it would look like an accident, a couple whom never killed anyone before, try to simulate a horrendous crime, why not just strangle her and leave, did you read the autopsy report of Jon Ramsey. A lot went on.


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IMO

Nehemiah
03-01-2004, 07:07 PM
No. Although we have a skewed geographical base we find that we pretty much have people fairly near to where their legwork is needed. Cameras, dna-kits, public record searches... we are making progress on several fronts. DA-Keenan is going to be getting some really good stuff.

Who is the leader of these action teams? Is there a secret network of people scurrying around on all fronts?

Why--do you suppose the perp is reading the forums?

IMO

ICU
03-02-2004, 04:41 PM
My apologies to Tlynn, I did not read the Ramsey case in a while and was not aware of the ligature around the neck was not garroted, after looking a the autopsy photos, it became clear to me that you were right about the paint brush handle.



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IMO