Mary Winkler expected to be released within days

[anneoakley63]

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070813/NEWS03/70813020

[kato]

That is soooooooooooo not right and a damn shame.

[Ntegrity]

I feel so bad for Matthew's parents. They've been put through the wringer. :(

[Taximom]

Is she going to be on some kind of parole? Or extended required counseling? This just seems so wrong to me.

[Jodibug]

I still wish the DA would prosecute her for the check kiting.

She would probably have a harsher sentence for that than she did for murder.

[PaperDoll]

Is she going to be on some kind of parole? Or extended required counseling? This just seems so wrong to me.

I know Taximom, I don't understand it... I wasn't at the trial nor was I able to watch it, but it seems like the jury just didn't care.

[browneyes]

Her trial was a travesty of justice...imho. Poor Matthew and his reputation were drug thru the mud......without any proof. It may be a matter of time before her "ugly" comes out again. :mad:

[tennessee]

:sick:

When I get tired of Mr. TN, we are going to be moving to McNairy County.

[southcitymom]

Wow. This doesn't surprise me based on the outcome of the trial.

I wonder what she will do now? Does anyone know the nature of her contact with her children and/or Matthew's family?

[angelmom]

I don't understand how this happened. Even if you truly believe she is mentally ill, or was at the time of the murder, shouldn't she be in a locked hospital getting treatment? How do you go from blowing your husband's head off to being released into the general public?

His family must be devastated, and the kids sooo confused.:(

[Peter Hamilton]

pathetic

[southcitymom]

I don't understand how this happened. Even if you truly believe she is mentally ill, or was at the time of the murder, shouldn't she be in a locked hospital getting treatment? How do you go from blowing your husband's head off to being released into the general public?

His family must be devastated, and the kids sooo confused.:(

I believe a jury found her guilty of involuntary manslaughter, so there were sentencing guidelines surrounding what the Judge could do. I also believe that the Judge allowed her time served to count towards her sentencing.

Someone else correct me if I am wrong on these facts - this is just my offhand recollection.

I was on of the few that respected the Jury's decision in this case. However, I understand why people who did not agree with it see her sentence and quick release as a slap in the face.

[Mygirlsadie]

I didnt really keep up with this case. I know she killed her husband but did they ever say why? I know I could probably go back and read but was just wondering if someone could give me a quick re-cap...

[sandraladeda]

Wow. This doesn't surprise me based on the outcome of the trial.

I wonder what she will do now? Does anyone know the nature of her contact with her children and/or Matthew's family?
She'll probably write a book, some insensitive publisher will cut her a great big advance, and many people will allow their curiosity to override their sense of deceny by buying the book. She's set for life.....:doh:

[lilpony]

This ticks me off!!!:furious:
Why have other women went to jail for years or life. For killing their husbands, who said they were abused. But not Mary! Its so unbelieveable!!

[Jodibug]

I didnt really keep up with this case. I know she killed her husband but did they ever say why?

because he bought her high-heeled shoes and wanted to have kinky sex.

and for that, he of course deserved the death penalty.


[/sarcasm]

[southcitymom]

I didnt really keep up with this case. I know she killed her husband but did they ever say why? I know I could probably go back and read but was just wondering if someone could give me a quick re-cap...


She claimed abuse on several levels. Also she claimed that she did not mean for the gun to go off, I believe.

[luvbeaches]

I can't believe she's getting out of jail I feel so bad for his family.

[close_enough]

pathetic

ditto...

[close_enough]

because he bought her high-heeled shoes and wanted to have kinky sex.

and for that, he of course deserved the death penalty.


[/sarcasm]

while is was sleeping, ugh:rolleyes:

[deanws]

I know Taximom, I don't understand it... I wasn't at the trial nor was I able to watch it, but it seems like the jury just didn't care.
I think they saw him for a bully though. I do think he abused her. I am not saying that he deserved to die...but he did do harm to her. I wonder how the children are doing?

[Taximom]

I think they saw him for a bully though. I do think he abused her. I am not saying that he deserved to die...but he did do harm to her. I wonder how the children are doing?

Hi there!

I don't know what he did to her, but I feel she needs more than 2 months of psychiatric help so she won't do this to someone else. :eek:

I wonder how the little girls are doing too. Poor things.

[pedinurse]

I believe a jury found her guilty of involuntary manslaughter, so there were sentencing guidelines surrounding what the Judge could do. I also believe that the Judge allowed her time served to count towards her sentencing.

Someone else correct me if I am wrong on these facts - this is just my offhand recollection.

I was on of the few that respected the Jury's decision in this case. However, I understand why people who did not agree with it see her sentence and quick release as a slap in the face.

if i am remembering correctly, all together - she has spent a signifigant amount of time in captivity!

[pedinurse]

I think they saw him for a bully though. I do think he abused her. I am not saying that he deserved to die...but he did do harm to her. I wonder how the children are doing?


My thoughts too. I am sure that Mrs. Winkler probably was going through a lot at the time of the murder as well. While he did not deserve to die, I think that she had been pushed past her "brink" in a way.

[pedinurse]

because he bought her high-heeled shoes and wanted to have kinky sex.

and for that, he of course deserved the death penalty.


[/sarcasm]

Hey now, wasn't there a wig involved also?

I am sure for an ultra-conservative woman such as herself, that was really - demeaning to her. Along with daily assults (the way he may have talked to her or treated her) and other stuff that was alleged at trial... I can see her being mentally stressed out. That's just me. I respected the judge's decision in this case.

[tennessee]

I'm mentally stressed out too because of the actions of someone who demeaned me for years. Can I go kill someone and get out of jail free?

[deanws]

Hi there!

I don't know what he did to her, but I feel she needs more than 2 months of psychiatric help so she won't do this to someone else. :eek:

I wonder how the little girls are doing too. Poor things.
Oh...I think she needs WAY more help than two months.
:confused: Do you think she will continue getting help? I hope so. I think the kids need help too...for quite a while.

[pedinurse]

I'm mentally stressed out too because of the actions of someone who demeaned me for years. Can I go kill someone and get out of jail free?


tennesssee... well, i wouldn't recommend it, but i have heard of a GREAT attourney who could help you out in a case like that.... hahahhahaha

[Amraann]

because he bought her high-heeled shoes and wanted to have kinky sex.

and for that, he of course deserved the death penalty.


[/sarcasm]

I hardly think that the purchase of high heels and a wig is "kinky"

If it is then it says more about her repressed sexual issues then his.
This is not justice at all.

[Straitfan]

I think she more than likely had some type of mental issue prior to the marriage, I think she is likely to go off again.. I hope she never gets her children back.

[philamena]

I'm mentally stressed out too because of the actions of someone who demeaned me for years. Can I go kill someone and get out of jail free?

tennessee,
You'd have many women behind you. Hard to believe that Mary will be getting her get outta jail card so soon. :mad:

[kato]

if i am remembering correctly, all together - she has spent a signifigant amount of time in captivity!

Still not enough in my opinion.

[MissieMt]

Ugh-this is all so sad. I have to wonder if these kids will have any respect for the legal/justice system. Everyone wonders what's wrong with today's youth-why should they follow laws after seeing Mom&Dad getting away with sooo much.

[nanandjim]

because he bought her high-heeled shoes and wanted to have kinky sex.

and for that, he of course deserved the death penalty.


[/sarcasm]
Yep. Instead of just saying 'no' or that she didn't feel comfortable with it, she opted for murder. Of course, Matthew isn't here to tell us his version of what went on in the marriage.

I agree that she should be prosecuted for check kiting. Everyone else would be.

[Amraann]

I only slightly followed this case so please forgive if this is a dumb question..

What is check kiting?

[southcitymom]

Hey now, wasn't there a wig involved also?

I am sure for an ultra-conservative woman such as herself, that was really - demeaning to her. Along with daily assults (the way he may have talked to her or treated her) and other stuff that was alleged at trial... I can see her being mentally stressed out. That's just me. I respected the judge's decision in this case.

Also - and again someone please correct me if I am recalling things incorrectly - I believe Mary testified that she didn't mean for the gun to go off - it is obvious to me that the jury believed that.

Now, I'm the sort of person that thinks if you ever find yourself in a situation where you are so freaked out that you are holding a gun at the sleeping father of your children, you need to get yourself some help ASAP.....that said, I am not convinced that she intended to walk in there and shoot him.

Does anyone know the status of her relationship with her children? Have the grandparents been granted custody? Does Mary have rights and/or visitation? I am interested to see how that plays out.

[southcitymom]

I only slightly followed this case so please forgive if this is a dumb question..

What is check kiting?

Floating bad checks and taking the money.

[Amraann]

Floating bad checks and taking the money.

Thanks SCM!!! I just always knew that as "floating a check"

Never heard it called Kiting before.

[southcitymom]

Thanks SCM!!! I just always knew that as "floating a check"

Never heard it called Kiting before.

Yep - just a sexy term for floating!

[sherri79]

Also - and again someone please correct me if I am recalling things incorrectly - I believe Mary testified that she didn't mean for the gun to go off - it is obvious to me that the jury believed that.

Now, I'm the sort of person that thinks if you ever find yourself in a situation where you are so freaked out that you are holding a gun at the sleeping father of your children, you need to get yourself some help ASAP.....that said, I am not convinced that she intended to walk in there and shoot him.

Does anyone know the status of her relationship with her children? Have the grandparents been granted custody? Does Mary have rights and/or visitation? I am interested to see how that plays out.
i dont know about visits but the custody battle is still going on. i'm not sure her kids can ever feel safe sleeping in the same house with her. if it was cold blooded murder they are not safe. if she just snapped then 60 days would not make me sure it wouldn't happen again.

[southcitymom]

i dont know about visits but the custody battle is still going on. i'm not sure her kids can ever feel safe sleeping in the same house with her. if it was cold blooded murder they are not safe. if she just snapped then 60 days would not make me sure it wouldn't happen again.

Yeah - that's a tough one. I do hope that those kids have received some counseling. I would think that Mary herself would have to undergo a battery of psych tests to even determine if visitation is oaky.

[fundiva]

Also - and again someone please correct me if I am recalling things incorrectly - I believe Mary testified that she didn't mean for the gun to go off - it is obvious to me that the jury believed that.

Now, I'm the sort of person that thinks if you ever find yourself in a situation where you are so freaked out that you are holding a gun at the sleeping father of your children, you need to get yourself some help ASAP.....that said, I am not convinced that she intended to walk in there and shoot him.

Does anyone know the status of her relationship with her children? Have the grandparents been granted custody? Does Mary have rights and/or visitation? I am interested to see how that plays out.
If I remember correctly this was a shotgun, which doesn't just "go off" accidentally. You don't just pull a trigger, you have to slide the bolt or pump it before it will shoot. The jury had to completely disregard how the gun worked. For her to dig the gun out of the closet, rack it and aim it she had a lot of intent, IMO.

[Jodibug]

This may not be 100% accurate, as I'm just going from memory and not re-reading the facts of the case. Feel free to correct anything I have wrong.

Check kiting is a little more involved than what we just think of as "floating a check". Mary opened several accounts in different towns. She then wrote checks back and fourth for a couple of months, knowing that none of the accounts had any money in them. More than one bank teller testified that they advised her that what she was doing was illegal. One of the banks asked her to come into the bank, with Matthew, for a meeting.

Mary shot Matthew the night before the meeting was to take place.

Mary testified that Matthew instructed her to write the checks and make the deposits, even though Matthew's name wasn't even on all of the accounts, and Matthew's name wasn't on ANY of the checks involved. Mary tried to say that she didn't know what was going on, she just trusted Matthew and did whatever he told her to do.

I don't think that Matthew knew anything about the check kiting, and I believe that Mary killed him because she didn't want him to find out. She knew that if Matthew didn't show up at the bank meeting with her, someone at the bank would most likely make attempts to speak with Matthew directly.

This is all IMO, of course.

The last I knew of (during the trial), one of the banks was still out about $5k, that Mary stole.

I can't think of any reason that she has not been prosecuted for stealing that money. Most likely, she would have a harsher sentence for stealing the $5k, than she received for Matthew's murder.

Again, IMO.

[Squishified]

This may not be 100% accurate, as I'm just going from memory and not re-reading the facts of the case. Feel free to correct anything I have wrong.

Check kiting is a little more involved than what we just think of as "floating a check". Mary opened several accounts in different towns. She then wrote checks back and fourth for a couple of months, knowing that none of the accounts had any money in them. More than one bank teller testified that they advised her that what she was doing was illegal. One of the banks asked her to come into the bank, with Matthew, for a meeting.

Mary shot Matthew the night before the meeting was to take place.

Mary testified that Matthew instructed her to write the checks and make the deposits, even though Matthew's name wasn't even on all of the accounts, and Matthew's name wasn't on ANY of the checks involved. Mary tried to say that she didn't know what was going on, she just trusted Matthew and did whatever he told her to do.

I don't think that Matthew knew anything about the check kiting, and I believe that Mary killed him because she didn't want him to find out. She knew that if Matthew didn't show up at the bank meeting with her, someone at the bank would most likely make attempts to speak with Matthew directly.

This is all IMO, of course.

The last I knew of (during the trial), one of the banks was still out about $5k, that Mary stole.

I can't think of any reason that she has not been prosecuted for stealing that money. Most likely, she would have a harsher sentence for stealing the $5k, than she received for Matthew's murder.

Again, IMO.
I think you got it right, Jodibug.

[southcitymom]

If I remember correctly this was a shotgun, which doesn't just "go off" accidentally. You don't just pull a trigger, you have to slide the bolt or pump it before it will shoot. The jury had to completely disregard how the gun worked. For her to dig the gun out of the closet, rack it and aim it she had a lot of intent, IMO.

I do recall that it was a shotgun and you make a great point. I also recall her saying she didn't remember the actual shooting.

[Logger]

I think they saw him for a bully though. I do think he abused her. I am not saying that he deserved to die...but he did do harm to her. I wonder how the children are doing?

I haven't hear how the children are doing. I WORRY FOR THEM.

They are with his parents. The role models for abuse. Abusers learn it from
someone. If the parents keep the kids the cycle will continue.

[MagicRose99]

I haven't hear how the children are doing. I WORRY FOR THEM.

They are with his parents. The role models for abuse. Abusers learn it from
someone. If the parents keep the kids the cycle will continue.

<sarcasm>Yes, let's blame everybody BUT the b*tch with the gun... It's certainly not her fault... after all, divorce was NOT an option...</sarcasm>

Mary is the only one to blame for what happened. Those children are so much better off with their grandparents than they are with a murderous b*tch who may end up killing them while they sleep too.

[sherri79]

I haven't hear how the children are doing. I WORRY FOR THEM.

They are with his parents. The role models for abuse. Abusers learn it from
someone. If the parents keep the kids the cycle will continue.we have no proof of abuse. we have only the killers word. i know men beat their wives. i know women kill husbands who beat them. the fact every woman who kills her husband now says she was beat makes it unlikely that at least a few are not liars. i think to kill their father with them in the home was a form of abuse.

[Squishified]

The children's grandparents have never killed anyone. The children's mother has.

[anneoakley63]

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070814/NEWS01/70814041

:banghead:

[southcitymom]

I haven't hear how the children are doing. I WORRY FOR THEM.

They are with his parents. The role models for abuse. Abusers learn it from
someone. If the parents keep the kids the cycle will continue.

That's a very interesting perspective, Logger. But of course Mary was also abusive to her children in the fact that she killed their father while they were at home.

Except in the most extreme cases of abuse, I believe children should remain with their family. I am glad they had Matthew's parents to go to.

[tennessee]

<sarcasm>Yes, let's blame everybody BUT the b*tch with the gun... It's certainly not her fault... after all, divorce was NOT an option...</sarcasm>

Mary is the only one to blame for what happened. Those children are so much better off with their grandparents than they are with a murderous b*tch who may end up killing them while they sleep too.


:clap: :clap: :clap:

[jubie]

She certainly knew what to do to protect herself and her children AFTER she shot him.... disconnect the phone and run away with the girls. Those poor little girls, I can't imagine what this has been like for them. IF they want to see their mom I think they should be allowed. Tough decisions all around this one.:(



Jubie

[Texana]

This may not be 100% accurate, as I'm just going from memory and not re-reading the facts of the case. Feel free to correct anything I have wrong.

Check kiting is a little more involved than what we just think of as "floating a check". Mary opened several accounts in different towns. She then wrote checks back and fourth for a couple of months, knowing that none of the accounts had any money in them. More than one bank teller testified that they advised her that what she was doing was illegal. One of the banks asked her to come into the bank, with Matthew, for a meeting.

Mary shot Matthew the night before the meeting was to take place.

Mary testified that Matthew instructed her to write the checks and make the deposits, even though Matthew's name wasn't even on all of the accounts, and Matthew's name wasn't on ANY of the checks involved. Mary tried to say that she didn't know what was going on, she just trusted Matthew and did whatever he told her to do.

I don't think that Matthew knew anything about the check kiting, and I believe that Mary killed him because she didn't want him to find out. She knew that if Matthew didn't show up at the bank meeting with her, someone at the bank would most likely make attempts to speak with Matthew directly.

This is all IMO, of course.

The last I knew of (during the trial), one of the banks was still out about $5k, that Mary stole.

I can't think of any reason that she has not been prosecuted for stealing that money. Most likely, she would have a harsher sentence for stealing the $5k, than she received for Matthew's murder.

Again, IMO.

Excellent summary of what was actually going on, Jodibug, despite all the smoke and mirrors Mary's defense threw out about "kinky sex" and abuse.

[Texana]

If I remember correctly this was a shotgun, which doesn't just "go off" accidentally. You don't just pull a trigger, you have to slide the bolt or pump it before it will shoot. The jury had to completely disregard how the gun worked. For her to dig the gun out of the closet, rack it and aim it she had a lot of intent, IMO.


Exactly. She wasn't just grabbing a pistol and holding it up in a "Stop coming towards me or I'll have to shoot you" or a "I'm going to kill myself if you don't stop" kind of action.

Unplugging the phone to me was the clearest piece of evidence that she deliberately meant for him to die. If she didn't mean for the gun to go off, she could have picked up the phone immediately and dialed 911, not left him to die alone.

Right now the grandparents have custody but she's suing to get it back permanently. I'd pick the grandparents over Mary any day for a better chance for those children.

[kgeaux]

<sarcasm>Yes, let's blame everybody BUT the b*tch with the gun... It's certainly not her fault... after all, divorce was NOT an option...</sarcasm>

Mary is the only one to blame for what happened. Those children are so much better off with their grandparents than they are with a murderous b*tch who may end up killing them while they sleep too.

Honestly, if this were the other way around, if an "abused" husband chose to end his marriage by shooting his wife while she lay in bed, and HIS sentence was equivalent to a slap on the wrist, everybody would be screaming about the horrible injustice.

She had ways to get out of the marriage. I'm not convinced that she shot him over high heels and a wig, and I have to say that I also don't believe for one nano second that hubby asking to spice up the sex life equals abuse! I really think she was trying to cover her azz in regards to the check kiting scheme she was involved in.

In regard to the grandparents, I hope and pray they never lose custody to Mary. She has proven that she is capable of the most heneious acts when she's "stressed."

[philamena]

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070814/NEWS01/70814041

:banghead:

already? :banghead:

[pedinurse]

oh, you guys just wish you were as innocent as poor mrs. winkler was!
:-)
she was traumatized when her hubby broke out the wig and heels!!!

*being very sarcastic*

[Whiner]

I swear I could run over someone accidently and spend more time in jail for negligence. IMO, she's nuts, has always been nuts and it had nothing to do with her husband. If Mary's as crazy as her attys say she is after enduring years of abuse, a couple of month's counseling is like putting a bandaid on a gushing wound.

[philamena]

oh, you guys just wish you were as innocent as poor mrs. winkler was!
:-)
she was traumatized when her hubby broke out the wig and heels!!!

*being very sarcastic*

:p

I have a friend who's 13 yr old son got caught taking 2 pieces of candy from a convenience store a few years ago. He served more time than Mary did....yet she flippin killed her husband. Just wait and see, soon there will be some legal statute that is referred to 'The Winkler ' when women kill their husbands.

[Nore]

:p

I have a friend who's 13 yr old son got caught taking 2 pieces of candy from a convenience store a few years ago. He served more time than Mary did....yet she flippin killed her husband. Just wait and see, soon there will be some legal statute that is referred to 'The Winkler ' when women kill their husbands.
-------------------------
Philamena you are so right! I read of some punishments given to crimnals and of course my thoughts go right to Mary! I pray she never gets her children.I am sorry but I do not trust that woman.There is a mental problem and I'd hate to see her use it on her girls.I so hoped they would find something~someway to help her while in the hospital. I do not understand how she would manage right at this point.She has no home, working in a cleaners does not pay much~how could she provide? Will Social Security give the childrens money to a mother on probation? This is all wrong. I'm all for giving a parent a second chance to make good~~~but not in this case.I am afraid of "sweet Mary".She is a killer.

[deanws]

<sarcasm>Yes, let's blame everybody BUT the b*tch with the gun... It's certainly not her fault... after all, divorce was NOT an option...</sarcasm>

Mary is the only one to blame for what happened. Those children are so much better off with their grandparents than they are with a murderous b*tch who may end up killing them while they sleep too.
Well I think every husband that beats his wife OUGHT to get his **** blown away!
:furious:

[pedinurse]

I swear I could run over someone accidently and spend more time in jail for negligence. IMO, she's nuts, has always been nuts and it had nothing to do with her husband. If Mary's as crazy as her attys say she is after enduring years of abuse, a couple of month's counseling is like putting a bandaid on a gushing wound.

well,


this has got to be one of THE sanest (sp?), best posts I have read all day. yes, that makes perfect sense to me. i don't even know that I agreed with you before i read this post, but i do now! Cheers!

[Elliemae]

Hey now, wasn't there a wig involved also?

I am sure for an ultra-conservative woman such as herself, that was really - demeaning to her. Along with daily assults (the way he may have talked to her or treated her) and other stuff that was alleged at trial... I can see her being mentally stressed out. That's just me. I respected the judge's decision in this case.

Well, when I read this today, surprisely for me I was happy for her. I immediately thought of the white platform shoes for some reason. This is not usual for me, but I'm glad she's out and I hope she can find some kind of happiness and get her girls back. I really don't know why the in-laws think they can get 2 million dollars from her? They must think that their son was a saint, blah, blah, blah. I think they should really take a look at themselves and who their son really was. This is a sad case all the way around.

e

[Jeana (DP)]

Well, when I read this today, surprisely for me I was happy for her. I immediately thought of the white platform shoes for some reason. This is not usual for me, but I'm glad she's out and I hope she can find some kind of happiness and get her girls back. I really don't know why the in-laws think they can get 2 million dollars from her? They must think that their son was a saint, blah, blah, blah. I think they should really take a look at themselves and who their son really was. This is a sad case all the way around.

e

unbelievable.:hand: :hand: :hand: :hand: :hand:

[close_enough]

Well I think every husband that beats his wife OUGHT to get his **** blown away!
:furious:

there was absolutely no proof whatsoever, shown in court, that Matthew ever beat Mary.....just what Mary stated in court herself...no witnesses, no Dr's, NOTHING proven she was physically abused...
Mary Winkler will get what's comin to her, at some point in time, i'm sure of it....i hope she lives a miserable rest of her life, before she dies & goes to hell...

[anneoakley63]

"Originally Posted by deandaniellws http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1630146#post1630146)
Well I think every husband that beats his wife OUGHT to get his **** blown away!"

If that was the case I'd have blown my ex away years ago.......and would STILL be sitting in prison for it!! I feel sorry for the children. The terror for them is a long way from over. This witch will eventually make them hate their father if she's allowed custody of them.

Originally Posted by Elliemae http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1630347#post1630347)
Well, when I read this today, surprisely for me I was happy for her. I immediately thought of the white platform shoes for some reason. This is not usual for me, but I'm glad she's out and I hope she can find some kind of happiness and get her girls back. I really don't know why the in-laws think they can get 2 million dollars from her? They must think that their son was a saint, blah, blah, blah. I think they should really take a look at themselves and who their son really was. This is a sad case all the way around.

e
unbelievable.:hand: :hand: :hand: :hand: :hand: - agreed Jeanna-----totally unbelievable.

I'm amazed at how naive some people can be. This woman murdered a man and basically walked. No bruises, no scratches....nothing but a phone cord yanked out of the wall, a man lying on the floor dying and a shotgun that SHE says went off by itself. I've actually TRIED to get mine to go off by itself and still can't get it to happen! She didn't spend near the time she should have being incarcerated.

[Jeana (DP)]

Even IF she was battered and abused, which I very seriously doubt, there is no defense for shooting someone in the back while they're sleeping. If he was abusing her and she shot in during the process. If there was a history of abuse even and her family and friends were trying to get her some help. If there was even phone calls to shelters saying she was in an abusive situation that she was trying to get out of. Something, anything, to give a background or a history of years and years of physical, sexual and mental abuse that Mary suffered, then yes. I'd be standing on my chair screaming that she got ripped off for even having gone on trial and serving any time. However, in my opinion, this little lady got away with cold blooded murder. The mere suggestion that she should even see these children again, much LESS have custody of them ever, leaves my blood cold.

[Annie]

Dr. Keith Ablow made some comments on it this week.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20296389/

[close_enough]

Dr. Keith Ablow made some comments on it this week.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20296389/

from the article above...

Winkler said that her husband, mortally wounded, rolled off the bed and asked her, “Why?” She said she told him she was sorry.

:mad: yeah.....pitiful

[Jeana (DP)]

from the article above...

Winkler said that her husband, mortally wounded, rolled off the bed and asked her, “Why?” She said she told him she was sorry.

:mad: yeah.....pitiful

May be a stupid question here, but if he was the miserable son of a bitch she claims he was, why didn't she just tell him why she was executing him? That was her moment to unleash hell on the dude and tell him everything that allegedly was building up to it all.:snooty: :snooty: :snooty: :snooty:

[sherri79]

May be a stupid question here, but if he was the miserable son of a bitch she claims he was, why didn't she just tell him why she was executing him? That was her moment to unleash hell on the dude and tell him everything that allegedly was building up to it all.:snooty: :snooty: :snooty: :snooty:um... maybe because she shot him to cover her crimes and then claimed abuse to cover. nah that cant be it cuz we know women who kite checks and shoot men dont lie about abuse. :banghead:

[Jeana (DP)]

um... maybe because she shot him to cover her crimes and then claimed abuse to cover. nah that cant be it cuz we know women who kite checks and shoot men dont lie about abuse. :banghead:

Oh, that's right. My bad.:rolleyes:

[txsvicki]

I haven't hear how the children are doing. I WORRY FOR THEM.

They are with his parents. The role models for abuse. Abusers learn it from
someone. If the parents keep the kids the cycle will continue.

I think it was proven that Matthew was truly, at least at times, a raging bully. I'd be very afraid of a man who did the things to neighbors that Matthew was said to have done. Maybe it was because their whole life is preaching and how they coped, but I thought the grandparents were extremely strange. The speech that grandma gave on the stand was more like a person giving a religious lecture in story form than the emotions of a real feeling person. It was the same with the grandfather.

[Annie]

I think it was proven that Matthew was truly, at least at times, a raging bully. I'd be very afraid of a man who did the things to neighbors that Matthew was said to have done. Maybe it was because their whole life is preaching and how they coped, but I thought the grandparents were extremely strange. The speech that grandma gave on the stand was more like a person giving a religious lecture in story form than the emotions of a real feeling person. It was the same with the grandfather.
I would have been crying all over the place because I am a very emotional person. I cry at happy things and I cry at sad things that have nothing to do with me. Matthew's mother and father are both teachers, used to giving organized talks. I think they brought this into what they said. Do you remember how Mark Lunsford looked at the trial of his daughter's killer. Very solemn and looked straight ahead, some even said angry. I guess it could appear cold. But none of us know the emotions racing through them and I hope we never have to know. Some people are like me and cry at the drop of a hat. Others work hard to keep their emotions in. My husband is like that. He never cries or shows emotion in public. But he is warm and loving in private. Plays with the grandchildren, tells wonderful stories, and cares deeply.

[Squishified]

I would have been crying all over the place because I am a very emotional person. I cry at happy things and I cry at sad things that have nothing to do with me. Matthew's mother and father are both teachers, used to giving organized talks. I think they brought this into what they said. Do you remember how Mark Lunsford looked at the trial of his daughter's killer. Very solemn and looked straight ahead, some even said angry. I guess it could appear cold. But none of us know the emotions racing through them and I hope we never have to know. Some people are like me and cry at the drop of a hat. Others work hard to keep their emotions in. My husband is like that. He never cries or shows emotion in public. But he is warm and loving in private. Plays with the grandchildren, tells wonderful stories, and cares deeply.
Great post, Annie!
By the way I am a "crier" like you. :)

[oceanblueeyes]

I think it was proven that Matthew was truly, at least at times, a raging bully. I'd be very afraid of a man who did the things to neighbors that Matthew was said to have done. Maybe it was because their whole life is preaching and how they coped, but I thought the grandparents were extremely strange. The speech that grandma gave on the stand was more like a person giving a religious lecture in story form than the emotions of a real feeling person. It was the same with the grandfather.

And what time(s) was that? You mean the time he was irate about a dog that had barked all night? Oh wow that is a sure sign of what? That he was human with human frailties and got ticked off just like other human beings can do? Never heard that he bullied anyone. Did he strike the old State Trooper? Never even heard about Matt Winkler even getting in a scuffle with anyone in all his 31 years of life. Sure doesn't sound like a bully to me. He was not a preacher when he got mad at the dog.

I think the entire Winkler family comported themselves with dignity and class. I found Diane Winkler very calm and her words deeply felt. Her words were haunting as she told Mary the legacy she had left behind for her little girls to have to deal with and that Mary had never even told her babies she was sorry. They are the sunshine......Mary is the darkness imo.

No wonder they are known as having an impeccable reputation. How many could sit there so dignified when the horrible creature was in the same room that killed their son?:furious: Mary needs to be thankful she had these in laws. I have seen victim's impact statements filled with cuss words and totally unbelievable anger toward the one who took their loved ones life.

But as Mary said herself "they are good people".

imo

[oceanblueeyes]

I hardly think that the purchase of high heels and a wig is "kinky"

If it is then it says more about her repressed sexual issues then his.
This is not justice at all.

There is so danged much that irritates me about this case but this is one of them.

Not one bit of proof was ever entered that Matt Winkler bought these shoes and wig. In fact I have seen those high stack type of shoes at Walmart before and what man gets the same color wig as their spouse already has? I thought men wanted to pretend that the "new woman" was totally different from their spouse. For all we know the wig may have been purchased by Mary to wear when she was having a bad hair day.

How do we know it wasn't Mary with the kinky ideas about sex. I know I had a friend that was married to a very strict preacher's daughter and good grief the things she wanted in a sexual relationship made my mouth drop. Talk about wild and wicked! lol And if one looked at her and the way she dressed out in the public she would have looked as plain and prudish as Mary Winkler.

How can she say she never looked at the porn yet casually went through them on the stand and IDd them?:waitasec:

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

I believe a jury found her guilty of involuntary manslaughter, so there were sentencing guidelines surrounding what the Judge could do. I also believe that the Judge allowed her time served to count towards her sentencing.

Someone else correct me if I am wrong on these facts - this is just my offhand recollection.

I was on of the few that respected the Jury's decision in this case. However, I understand why people who did not agree with it see her sentence and quick release as a slap in the face.

I have always accepted the jury's verdict but on this one I will never accept it as a just and correct verdict. It is a black mark on our justice system imo.

Farese had asked for full probation and to have her record expunged. The Judge refused on both citing her crime of killing her husband as he lay in his bed, leaving him to die and the aftermath that she caused when she made her babies flee with her after shooting him as the reason it was denied. He found her crime reprehensible.

The legislative guidelines gave him 3 to 6 years to work with but to consider the 6 years she had to have a prior criminal record and she did not so therefore under the guidelines he had to go by the 3 year minimum as outlined by law for him to follow. She received time to be served (210 days) which always includes any time already served.

So if her act had not been so despicable and reprehensible she most likely would have been given full probation with a possibility of having her record expunged.

http://www.forensicnursemag.com/articles/391lifedeath.html

16% of women will get probation for killing their spouses while men who kill their spouses only get probation about 1.6 % of the time.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

I think they saw him for a bully though. I do think he abused her. I am not saying that he deserved to die...but he did do harm to her. I wonder how the children are doing?

Not one shred of proof was ever entered that he abused her. Only the delayed words after giving 3 confessions to the contrary, made by a defendant that had the biggest motive to lie than anyone in that courtroom.

Not one person even saw any red flags. Everyone thought they were the ideal couple and many talked about how Matt always talked so lovingly about his little girls. Too bad that Mary made him voiceless and unable to defend himself.

I bet the children are doing very well in their wonderful surroundings. I am sure they continue to see thier therapist and still will struggle with the loss of their father they loved but imo they have a wonderful support system.

imo

[oceanblueeyes]

I think she more than likely had some type of mental issue prior to the marriage, I think she is likely to go off again.. I hope she never gets her children back.

I read an article last night and a psychologist was talking about Mary and they said she can have another episode merely if she were to watch a violent tv show like on Law and Order.

She is a walking time bomb. She has not been defused.

Lord help these three little girls.

imoo

[Nore]

I read an article last night and a psychologist was talking about Mary and they said she can have another episode merely if she were to watch a violent tv show like on Law and Order.

She is a walking time bomb. She has not been defused.

Lord help these three little girls.

imoo
------------

Hi Ocean, this is what I am so afraid of! I pray she never gets the girls back, even given visitation with them there should be someone there to watch over them.IMO

[Jeana (DP)]

I read an article last night and a psychologist was talking about Mary and they said she can have another episode merely if she were to watch a violent tv show like on Law and Order.

She is a walking time bomb. She has not been defused.

Lord help these three little girls.

imoo

NO KIDDING!!!! I've only got one daughter (and two sons), who is 12-years old now. The drama, the PMS and the attitude would try the patience of any parent. I think she could very easily blow her top and snap at any given time. Once you've killed someone, I think the possibility of it happening again are pretty up there.

[j2mirish]

NO KIDDING!!!! I've only got one daughter (and two sons), who is 12-years old now. The drama, the PMS and the attitude would try the patience of any parent. I think she could very easily blow her top and snap at any given time. Once you've killed someone, I think the possibility of it happening again are pretty up there.
especialy when you get away with it------------------:banghead:

[oceanblueeyes]

NO KIDDING!!!! I've only got one daughter (and two sons), who is 12-years old now. The drama, the PMS and the attitude would try the patience of any parent. I think she could very easily blow her top and snap at any given time. Once you've killed someone, I think the possibility of it happening again are pretty up there.

I agree.

The part I wrestle with is I believe very little of what Mary had to say. I do believe her before she was tainted by her fancy lawyers when she told LE the truth except when she said she couldn't remember getting the gun. I think that was convenient selective memory in order to dismiss her crime.

One of the most glaring things to me was when she finally came up with the story that she was going to get the shotgun so she could point it at her big bad abuser so he would listen to her. I will never get my mind wrapped around that. One has to experience being grossly abused to realize the fear is so overwhelming and debilitating it leaves the mind and the body incapable of reacting in any way that may garner more wrath from the abuser. To a victim the mere thought of getting the gun would leave them paralyzed thinking any second the abuser could catch them and there would be hell to pay. All facets of one's life is based on that frozen fear and that is why most of the time it takes years to leave.

So I still wonder if Mary did experience a dissociative fugue state or was this diagnosis invented to cover up her crime? From minute one of the Amber alert DZ was already psychobabbling about Mary Winkler before she had ever seen her and imo I have no doubt that Farese knew exactly how she would diagnose his client. He had used her before and so had Ballin.

This is one case where I feel we are no closer to the truth than we were when it began.

It just seems awfully suspicious for a woman who is supposedly to have such serious issues and is expected to return to her normal life like nothing ever happened.



imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

------------

Hi Ocean, this is what I am so afraid of! I pray she never gets the girls back, even given visitation with them there should be someone there to watch over them.IMO

Hi Nore!

Justice was not served for Matthew.

I pray that his three children will have theirs and their freedom from the one that has shattered their little lives.

If they are made to go back then that would be the ultimate injustice of all.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

especialy when you get away with it------------------:banghead:

Well we sure have seen that happen before. I guess it gives them some type of arrogance that they were able to fool others.

imoo

[Elliemae]

I think it was proven that Matthew was truly, at least at times, a raging bully. I'd be very afraid of a man who did the things to neighbors that Matthew was said to have done. Maybe it was because their whole life is preaching and how they coped, but I thought the grandparents were extremely strange. The speech that grandma gave on the stand was more like a person giving a religious lecture in story form than the emotions of a real feeling person. It was the same with the grandfather.

Hey you guys. I thought I was supposed to be able to speak my opinoins and feelings on this board. All I got was :

:hand: :hand: :hand: and told that I was stupid.

For once I disagree or have some doubts against the public opinion on this story and I'm ostrasized.

Geez.

What is this? Nancy Grace's blog?

:truce:

e

[Annie]

Hey you guys. I thought I was supposed to be able to speak my opinoins and feelings on this board. All I got was :

:hand: :hand: :hand: and told that I was stupid.

For once I disagree or have some doubts against the public opinion on this story and I'm ostrasized.

Geez.

What is this? Nancy Grace's blog?

:truce:

e

I don't think anyone is saying you are stupid. Many of us just disagree with you. This is a discussion board and we all express our opinions. You have to be tough to post on a discussion board, because there will likely be those who disagree with you. Don't take it personally.

[luvbeaches]

I thought I'd seen it all...but this case takes the cake. I simply can't believe this woman hasn't gotten off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

Justice certainly was not served. :(

[Pepper]

I thought I'd seen it all...but this case takes the cake. I simply can't believe this woman hasn't gotten off with nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

Justice certainly was not served. :(


This case is proof positive that there is a double standard when it comes to punishment of female vs. male murderers. If she had been the victim and not the murderer, he would have received the death penalty, or at least LWOP.

[Jeana (DP)]

Hey you guys. I thought I was supposed to be able to speak my opinoins and feelings on this board. All I got was :

:hand: :hand: :hand: and told that I was stupid.

For once I disagree or have some doubts against the public opinion on this story and I'm ostrasized.

Geez.

What is this? Nancy Grace's blog?

:truce:

e

Can you point out the post where someone called you "stupid"?

[fundiva]

Hey now, wasn't there a wig involved also?

I am sure for an ultra-conservative woman such as herself, that was really - demeaning to her. Along with daily assults (the way he may have talked to her or treated her) and other stuff that was alleged at trial... I can see her being mentally stressed out. That's just me. I respected the judge's decision in this case.
Ultra conservative? Are we talking about the same woman who frequented bars, smoked like a chimney, and (from previous threads here) flipped off people who drive by the cleaners where she worked. She was already dating (sleeping with) her boss, even though she had been out on bond for a short time. Not the characteristics of an ultra conservative woman IMO.

[fundiva]

I do recall that it was a shotgun and you make a great point. I also recall her saying she didn't remember the actual shooting.
Her selective memory doesn't surprise me. I think it is suspect that she wouldn't remember the "actual shooting" but she can remember everything else about that morning - getting up when he went in to see the baby, thinking she should make coffee, but instead going to the closet and getting the gun. Then she has a blank moment, but remembers she said she was sorry and unplugged the phone. She remembers she pack up the kids (and the gun) and run off. She can also remember other traumatic experiences like the wig and the shoes, but she can't remember the shooting. Doesn't track with my logic!

[luvbeaches]

This case is proof positive that there is a double standard when it comes to punishment of female vs. male murderers. If she had been the victim and not the murderer, he would have received the death penalty, or at least LWOP.

You're right, there is a double standard in this country. I still can't believe this woman got nothing more than a slap on the wrist for killing her husband. I wonder how many other women out there will think they can "pull a Mary" and get away with murder?

[luvbeaches]

Ultra conservative? Are we talking about the same woman who frequented bars, smoked like a chimney, and (from previous threads here) flipped off people who drive by the cleaners where she worked. She was already dating (sleeping with) her boss, even though she had been out on bond for a short time. Not the characteristics of an ultra conservative woman IMO.

She's not an ultra-conserative in my book. She's a killer who got away with muder.

[oceanblueeyes]

http://www.newwest.net/index.php/topic/article/save_the_males_stand_up_for_the_much_maligned_man/C37/L37/

This case is so unfair even a woman is making a stand for the male.

"Save the Males"

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

You're right, there is a double standard in this country. I still can't believe this woman got nothing more than a slap on the wrist for killing her husband. I wonder how many other women out there will think they can "pull a Mary" and get away with murder?

I imagine if they aren't from Tennessee....they will be moving there.:crazy:

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

Ultra conservative? Are we talking about the same woman who frequented bars, smoked like a chimney, and (from previous threads here) flipped off people who drive by the cleaners where she worked. She was already dating (sleeping with) her boss, even though she had been out on bond for a short time. Not the characteristics of an ultra conservative woman IMO.

For over a year it seems religion has been touted about as one of the excuses for Mary and I have always felt that assumption absolutely made no sense to me. If Mary had been some fanatical believer in God and His word she would have absolutely been rendered incapable of going against God's law or the bible teachings.

There wasn't a thing holy about what Mary Winkler did.

Imo Mary has long lived a lie. Pretending to be one way when her thoughts led her another. What woman knows how to smoke so quickly when they are in their 30s when they start? What woman like Mary looks so comfortable and relaxed up at a bar at 2am in the morning?

Imo there was the faux Christian Mary and then the real Mary that has emerged never letting grass grow under her feet. I would not be surprised if she was doing other things beside the check kiting and bogus checks behind Matt's back. Imo she is a woman with many dark secrets...her own secrets that hides the real Mary.

So much of her actions from beginning to end remind me of a psychopath. Her flat unemotional stare was scary to look at as the Judge told her how reprehensible her crimes were. No sadness...no emotion......just a flatliner... with her mouth set tight and thin. The same when they arrested her...again no tears...no emotions. Even when she said her statement in court, which I am sure Farese helped her with...there was no emotion just hollow words.

I think when she took that shotgun out of its case and steadied herself to fire she was just as unemotional then. The thought that the last eyes that Matt ever saw were those cold dark eyes peering into his is one visual that haunts me. How scared this man had to be. I am sure he was praying to God to protect his babies from this woman who was leaving him there to die and left with the shotgun in her hands.

Even the little girls first thoughts were about their daddy's wellbeing and Mary lied to them when she told them he was fine and she had called 911 to get him help. Again, no thought or compassion for others not even her own children.

imoo

[Jeana (DP)]

Excellent post darlin!!!!

[oceanblueeyes]

Excellent post darlin!!!!

Thank you very much.:blowkiss:

I am very passionate about this case. It shows huh?:D

I am so afraid that Mary is going to win the entire thing and I think this is how Mary sees it even the children are like pawns to her imo She coldly killed this man and the verdict/sentence was a slap in the face of true justice for all. Then she is out in a flash and goes on with her life like nothing ever happened. She is absolutely a horrible mother for all the pain she has inflicted on the girls. How can anyone be assured that she will not again place her self-centeredness first over her children's best interest?

The thought that the Winklers may wind up with nothing but shattered lives and empty arms breaks my heart. They lost their beloved son, their son was murdered again in the trial and they now worry if they will lose their grandchildren. How much can one family endure from so many injustices? I worry about them and I worry about the children being ripped from their arms not wanting to leave them if Mary gets them back.

I pray so hard that these little children are freed from the shame and burden their mother so selfishly placed upon them to carry. If they are made to be in her presence all the time they will never be able to move away from the dark shadows that will continue to follow them.

imo

[oceanblueeyes]

Well I think every husband that beats his wife OUGHT to get his **** blown away!
:furious:

Does that apply when women commit violence against a male too? Like stabbing them, pouring boiling hot water on them? Slapping them? Poisoning them? Hitting them with cast iron skillets? Constantly emotionally abusing them? So if you think men are worth killin then ya got to think when women physically abuse they are too.

Wow, well I for one am very glad one of my best friends did not kill his wife even though she put him in intensive care the last time she abused him which had been going on for 20 years. I would much rather he be an abuse survivor as he came to be and he was given full custody of their children. He is happy and imo he made the right choices for himself and his children. She served time too so in the end maybe she learned something too.

I had two violent abusers in my life for 20 years total. Did I ever want them dead? Absolutely not. Life is about choices..hurting anyone is not in the realm of my possibilities. I cant stand any form of violence and certainly wouldn't succumb to the kind of person I deplore. The only legal choice is to leave and become a survivor not go on some shooting spree. I put my children first and never denied them their given rights to make their own choices and decisions. I live with no guilt that I shattered their world and replaced peace with chaos and turmoil nor did I give them indelible images of their father dying. So while you seem to think violence is the thing to do imo you are so wrong. That was Mary's mentality........a murderous mind waiting to happen. Imo it had nothing to do with any abuse but exposure to illegal activities done by the preacher's wife.

And BTW/since we are talking about hitting a female equals death. Where is the factual supported, substantiated, evidence supporting anything Mary Winkler opined? It was not proven and that is why Judge McGraw was very specific in his ruling and clearly stated it for what it was "alleged abuse".

imoo

[Nore]

Does that apply when women commit violence against a male too? Like stabbing them, pouring boiling hot water on them? Slapping them? Poisoning them? Hitting them with cast iron skillets? Constantly emotionally abusing them? So if you think men are worth killin then ya got to think when women physically abuse they are too.

Wow, well I for one am very glad one of my best friends did not kill his wife even though she put him in intensive care the last time she abused him which had been going on for 20 years. I would much rather he be an abuse survivor as he came to be and he was given full custody of their children. He is happy and imo he made the right choices for himself and his children. She served time too so in the end maybe she learned something too.

I had two violent abusers in my life for 20 years total. Did I ever want them dead? Absolutely not. Life is about choices..hurting anyone is not in the realm of my possibilities. I cant stand any form of violence and certainly wouldn't succumb to the kind of person I deplore. The only legal choice is to leave and become a survivor not go on some shooting spree. I put my children first and never denied them their given rights to make their own choices and decisions. I live with no guilt that I shattered their world and replaced peace with chaos and turmoil nor did I give them indelible images of their father dying. So while you seem to think violence is the thing to do imo you are so wrong. That was Mary's mentality........a murderous mind waiting to happen. Imo it had nothing to do with any abuse but exposure to illegal activities done by the preacher's wife.

And BTW/since we are talking about hitting a female equals death. Where is the factual supported, substantiated, evidence supporting anything Mary Winkler opined? It was not proven and that is why Judge McGraw was very specific in his ruling and clearly stated it for what it was "alleged abuse".

imoo
------------

In my Opinion also! AMEN..I'm still bent out of shape over this case..

[luvbeaches]

I imagine if they aren't from Tennessee....they will be moving there.:crazy:

imoo

No doubt!

[AfterMidnight]

It's frightening how much rage and hatred is being expressed in this thread.

[accordn2me]

Does that apply when women commit violence against a male too? Like stabbing them, pouring boiling hot water on them? Slapping them? Poisoning them? Hitting them with cast iron skillets? Constantly emotionally abusing them? So if you think men are worth killin then ya got to think when women physically abuse they are too.

Wow, well I for one am very glad one of my best friends did not kill his wife even though she put him in intensive care the last time she abused him which had been going on for 20 years. I would much rather he be an abuse survivor as he came to be and he was given full custody of their children. He is happy and imo he made the right choices for himself and his children. She served time too so in the end maybe she learned something too.

I had two violent abusers in my life for 20 years total. Did I ever want them dead? Absolutely not. Life is about choices..hurting anyone is not in the realm of my possibilities. I cant stand any form of violence and certainly wouldn't succumb to the kind of person I deplore. The only legal choice is to leave and become a survivor not go on some shooting spree. I put my children first and never denied them their given rights to make their own choices and decisions. I live with no guilt that I shattered their world and replaced peace with chaos and turmoil nor did I give them indelible images of their father dying. So while you seem to think violence is the thing to do imo you are so wrong. That was Mary's mentality........a murderous mind waiting to happen. Imo it had nothing to do with any abuse but exposure to illegal activities done by the preacher's wife.

And BTW/since we are talking about hitting a female equals death. Where is the factual supported, substantiated, evidence supporting anything Mary Winkler opined? It was not proven and that is why Judge McGraw was very specific in his ruling and clearly stated it for what it was "alleged abuse".

imooTIA with you! And bravo to you for doing the right thing under the wrong circumstances!

Now, why you you suppose Judge McGraw didn't give Mary the maximum sentence allowed by law. She got a major break with that lame-*ss jury. Why did he give her another with his lame-*ss sentence? :confused:

[anneoakley63]

Supreme Court will NOT intervene in Winkler Custody Case:

"The Tennessee Supreme Court has denied a request to intervene in a case that will determine whether Mary Winkler regains custody of her three young daughters.
Winkler was hoping the court would the court to stop an attempt by the children's paternal grandparents, Dan and Diane Winkler, to adopt them over their mother's objections."

........more at link!

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070904/NEWS03/70904022/-1/UPDATES&GID=bg0lAVEBZ+3dMJMT08vrIC53wOODuYbUuEdnhaJhpgA%3D

[anneoakley63]

Does that apply when women commit violence against a male too? Like stabbing them, pouring boiling hot water on them? Slapping them? Poisoning them? Hitting them with cast iron skillets? Constantly emotionally abusing them? So if you think men are worth killin then ya got to think when women physically abuse they are too.

Wow, well I for one am very glad one of my best friends did not kill his wife even though she put him in intensive care the last time she abused him which had been going on for 20 years. I would much rather he be an abuse survivor as he came to be and he was given full custody of their children. He is happy and imo he made the right choices for himself and his children. She served time too so in the end maybe she learned something too.

I had two violent abusers in my life for 20 years total. Did I ever want them dead? Absolutely not. Life is about choices..hurting anyone is not in the realm of my possibilities. I cant stand any form of violence and certainly wouldn't succumb to the kind of person I deplore. The only legal choice is to leave and become a survivor not go on some shooting spree. I put my children first and never denied them their given rights to make their own choices and decisions. I live with no guilt that I shattered their world and replaced peace with chaos and turmoil nor did I give them indelible images of their father dying. So while you seem to think violence is the thing to do imo you are so wrong. That was Mary's mentality........a murderous mind waiting to happen. Imo it had nothing to do with any abuse but exposure to illegal activities done by the preacher's wife.

And BTW/since we are talking about hitting a female equals death. Where is the factual supported, substantiated, evidence supporting anything Mary Winkler opined? It was not proven and that is why Judge McGraw was very specific in his ruling and clearly stated it for what it was "alleged abuse".

imoo


Excellent post! And I agree with you 100%. I too walked away from a very abusive relationship (albeit with broken bones and a lifetime of mental torture). But I got OUT! I SURVIVED! and I didn't have to kill anyone to do it!

Mary had choices...she made bad ones. She killed a man in cold blood. And 12 days in jail doesn't cut it. She, nor her lawyers, ever showed me anything to prove abuse. NADA!

Congrats Ocean.....for being a survivor! :)

[Rhett]

Can anyone give me a link to the victim impact statements from this trial? I missed getting to hear/and or read them. Thank you.

[oceanblueeyes]

Supreme Court will NOT intervene in Winkler Custody Case:

"The Tennessee Supreme Court has denied a request to intervene in a case that will determine whether Mary Winkler regains custody of her three young daughters.
Winkler was hoping the court would the court to stop an attempt by the children's paternal grandparents, Dan and Diane Winkler, to adopt them over their mother's objections."

........more at link!

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070904/NEWS03/70904022/-1/UPDATES&GID=bg0lAVEBZ+3dMJMT08vrIC53wOODuYbUuEdnhaJhpgA%3D

Thanks Anne.

I see that once again Mary is being held responsible for all court cost concerning the Supreme Court Appeal just like she was held individually responsible for all court fees in the TN. Appeal Court.

Since she did a cover story with People 9/3 issue I suppose she is going to use the money made from that.

It is strange though that only a couple days before the article came out Rudi Thompson came out to the media and said to leave Mary alone. I guess he had not spoken to Farese first who I am sure set this article up.

We learned in the SP case that People doesn't pay for articles but they do pay for photos and from what I have heard from others there were several new posed photos of Mary. If they gave Amber Frey's friend $15K for one photo of Amber and Scott then it makes me wonder the amount of money they gave Mary for hers. Whatever the amount it is nothing but blood money imo.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

Excellent post! And I agree with you 100%. I too walked away from a very abusive relationship (albeit with broken bones and a lifetime of mental torture). But I got OUT! I SURVIVED! and I didn't have to kill anyone to do it!

Mary had choices...she made bad ones. She killed a man in cold blood. And 12 days in jail doesn't cut it. She, nor her lawyers, ever showed me anything to prove abuse. NADA!

Congrats Ocean.....for being a survivor! :)

Congratulations to YOU too Anne!

It is empowering when one steps forward through the valley of darkness, turmoil and fear and makes it through to the other side where there is peace and freedom.

:D And I am so thankful I didn't walk away with a bad attitude toward all males. Shucks if I had done that then I would have missed one of the very best thing that happened to me, besides my lovely children.....;) my loving, devoted, sweet, hubby who has remained my hero for 24 years.

Right choices brings hope for a better day.

Take care.

Ocean

[oceanblueeyes]

TIA with you! And bravo to you for doing the right thing under the wrong circumstances!

Now, why you you suppose Judge McGraw didn't give Mary the maximum sentence allowed by law. She got a major break with that lame-*ss jury. Why did he give her another with his lame-*ss sentence? :confused:

His hands were really tied A2M.

He had to follow the guidelines that the legislature sets out for him.

He denied her full probation and refused to have her record expunged. He used the actual killing, calling it excessive and reprehensible and doing the crime with her children in the next room and then fleeing from the scene as the aggravating factor against her to deny what Farese had really hoped she would get. (Full probation with expunged record)

He then looked at her possible mental issues and the fact that Mary had no prior criminal history as a mitigating factor. So he was within the guidelines of the three year sentence instead of the six year maximum. In TN one does not have to serve but about 30% of their sentence. If Mary had a prior conviction then she more than likely would have gotten the 6 years which is still ridiculous the way she coldly killed this man in his sleep.

Ocean

[oceanblueeyes]

Can anyone give me a link to the victim impact statements from this trial? I missed getting to hear/and or read them. Thank you.

I dont think there is a full transcript available for the victim impact statements. There were excerpts in some of the TN newspapers. I am not sure if the link thread is available anymore.

Sorry, I am not much help.

Ocean

[Lesleegp]

According to our local news, Mary Winkler will be on Oprah on Wednesday, I assume 9/12/07. Parts were recorded at her attorneys office.

[oceanblueeyes]

According to our local news, Mary Winkler will be on Oprah on Wednesday, I assume 9/12/07. Parts were recorded at her attorneys office.

Yes, it seems Mary is seeking the media now. From the articles I have read today about this it seems that Mary was to have gone to Chicago for a live interview with Oprah. I am not sure that is going to happen and only the initial taped interview will be shown. We will see.

The Winkler family attorney has filed a RO on Mary Winkler. This may only cover preventing her from discussing the children or the custody issues in any form when she is interviewed.

Also there is a mention about the Probation Office in charge of Mary and if the PO will approve of her leaving the state to be interviewed on a television show.

Why wouldn't Oprah just fly into Memphis to Farese's office there.

Whatever we see my heart continues to break for these children. How Mary could further humiliate and shame them as she talks about killing their father I just cant fathom it as a mother myself.

Farese made it very cold. He said it wasn't about the children but yes, it really is about them Farese and they will be heckled that limelight mommy is on national TV talking about their dad they continue to love and feel the great loss.

I look at all of this photos of Mary and she emits no warmth. She seems stern, aloof and cold.

I do not think this will bode well for Mary with the custody Judge. It shows a high disregard for her children's traumatized lives. She adds even more pain and humiliation.

imoo

[Nore]

Yes, it seems Mary is seeking the media now. From the articles I have read today about this it seems that Mary was to have gone to Chicago for a live interview with Oprah. I am not sure that is going to happen and only the initial taped interview will be shown. We will see.

The Winkler family attorney has filed a RO on Mary Winkler. This may only cover preventing her from discussing the children or the custody issues in any form when she is interviewed.

Also there is a mention about the Probation Office in charge of Mary and if the PO will approve of her leaving the state to be interviewed on a television show.

Why wouldn't Oprah just fly into Memphis to Farese's office there.

Whatever we see my heart continues to break for these children. How Mary could further humiliate and shame them as she talks about killing their father I just cant fathom it as a mother myself.

Farese made it very cold. He said it wasn't about the children but yes, it really is about them Farese and they will be heckled that limelight mommy is on national TV talking about their dad they continue to love and feel the great loss.

I look at all of this photos of Mary and she emits no warmth. She seems stern, aloof and cold.

I do not think this will bode well for Mary with the custody Judge. It shows a high disregard for her children's traumatized lives. She adds even more pain and humiliation.

imoo
-----------
Hi Ocean, I think they would have to give her special permission or something for her to leave the State.No, she shows no regard for her children whose school friends may repeat remarks made by their parents who watch the program. This happens~I know I lived it.mary knows Oprah is generous~~maybe she's hoping to be given a home etc.. Take care.Nore

[oceanblueeyes]

-----------
Hi Ocean, I think they would have to give her special permission or something for her to leave the State.No, she shows no regard for her children whose school friends may repeat remarks made by their parents who watch the program. This happens~I know I lived it.mary knows Oprah is generous~~maybe she's hoping to be given a home etc.. Take care.Nore

Hi Nore!

OMG I hadn't thought of that motive. Yes Oprah is very generous.........hmmm maybe this is why Farese hand picked Oprah.

Yes, unfortunately kids can be very mean sometimes. I believe Diane already mentioned that the school children already mention things to the children. How sad that is for them.

Now they will once again have it thrown up to them. What in the world is this woman thinking? She has to know her girls lives have been turned upside down and she just doesn't seem to even care that this will once again humiliate and shame them.

Right, I think the sentencing Judge instead of the PO is not wanting to give her permission to leave the state. It isn't an emergency like a death of a family member but Farese may get him to change his mind.

In McNairy county Judge Little had placed a gag order on all parties to the custody issue but I guess the Chancery Court Judge has not.

imoo

[sherri79]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296357,00.html
HUNTINGDON, Tenn. — Mary Winkler's former in-laws want to stop her from appearing on "The Oprah Winfrey Show."
Winkler is scheduled to be on the show Wednesday to talk about fatally shooting her husband, Matthew Winkler, a Church of Christ preacher in the small town of Selmer.
She was convicted of voluntary manslaughter. But she served only five months in jail, followed by two months in a mental health treatment facility.
Dan and Diane Winkler filed a motion in Carroll County Circuit Court seeking to stop Mary Winkler from appearing on the show

[Whiner]

Besides her Oprah adventure, she's also filed a Motion to get her kids back immediately: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/11/national/main3249560.shtml

[Whiner]

Evidently talking on Oprah's show has been ok'd, but traveling to Chicago to talk is a no-go. http://www.courttv.com/trials/winkler/091107_oprah_ctv.html I can't imagine Oprah doing the entire show by phone.

[Liz]

Evidently talking on Oprah's show has been ok'd, but traveling to Chicago to talk is a no-go. http://www.courttv.com/trials/winkler/091107_oprah_ctv.html I can't imagine Oprah doing the entire show by phone.


She is scheduled to be on Oprah today though, isn't she? I guess we'll know for sure in a little while.

[Squishified]

It's on right now. I'm not gonna watch, though.
I don't like Oprah or Mary Winkler.

[6angels]

she got custody back. I just ran across this but didnt see it added here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2BHhZkydHg