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Lurker
08-16-2007, 12:41 PM
I'm not sure what to think of this. Was this murder or assisted suicide or is there even a difference between the two?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293451,00.html

kaybee
08-16-2007, 01:48 PM
Ooohh, how horrible and sad.
I'm also not sure if this was a case of murder or assisted suicide. I do think there's a difference between the two, especially if the wife had asked him to help put an end to her suffering. I know that if I was dying of a terminal illness and watching my family go into financial ruin, I would probably want to save my family from any more distress, so I can see the wife maybe asking her husband to assist in her suicide. However, I am a bit suspicious because being thrown off a balcony isn't exactly the most peaceful way to go--it certainly would not be one of my choices. Maybe he blew a gasket. I feel awful for the entire family.

GlitchWizard
08-16-2007, 02:40 PM
Stuff like this makes me angry at the healthcare system we have. I have a homeless friend who can't get help for his problems because he has no insurance and the hospitals don't do anything to help him when they find out. This poor man was watching his wife waste away and was already feeling hopeless and miserable. I don't think he did the right thing to kill her, of course - but tell me... WHAT SHOULD HE HAVE DONE?

... sadly, he's probably already tried whatever your answer is. :-(

kaybee
08-16-2007, 02:59 PM
Yeah, I agree about the state of our healthcare system--it's ridiculous that people have to lose everything in order to pay for necessary medical treatments. This guy was probably at the end of his rope. I think it's so sad--and maybe I am wrong to feel sympathy for this man, but I do. If that's his mugshot in the article, he looks like he's completely distraught. I don't think he thought about "getting away with it"--otherwise he would have done something less obvious than throwing her off the balcony. I just hope that it was quick and painless for his poor sick wife.

philamena
08-16-2007, 03:05 PM
I'm not sure what to think of this. Was this murder or assisted suicide or is there even a difference between the two?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293451,00.html

I definitely think there is a difference between murder and assisted suicide!
I've lost 2 people who were very near and dear to me due to Alzheimer's and cancer. :(They both knew they were dying and both knew what an effect their illness had on their family. Both asked for assisted suicide. They were ready to die. They didn't want to suffer anymore. They couldn't do it though---assisted suicide was against the law in both their states.

jantel74
08-16-2007, 03:07 PM
That's awful. I feel sorry for both of them. This is just horrific.

Jeana (DP)
08-16-2007, 03:10 PM
I'm not sure what to think of this. Was this murder or assisted suicide or is there even a difference between the two?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,293451,00.html

Assisted suicide only applies when the dying person asks someone to kill them, NOT when they take it upon themselves because the sick person is costing them too much money. This is murder just as if he had shot her.

txsvicki
08-16-2007, 03:15 PM
Assisted suicide only applies when the dying person asks someone to kill them, NOT when they take it upon themselves because the sick person is costing them too much money. This is murder just as if he had shot her.


I agree. The throwing over the balcony could have been trying to make it really look like a suicide and he had nothing to do with it all.

Jeana (DP)
08-16-2007, 03:21 PM
I agree. The throwing over the balcony could have been trying to make it really look like a suicide and he had nothing to do with it all.

Maybe, except as soon as police got there, the first thing he said was "she didn't jump." So, it seems to me like he just wanted her gone, even if that meant he was going to the pokey.:eek:

Amraann
08-16-2007, 03:27 PM
Maybe, except as soon as police got there, the first thing he said was "she didn't jump." So, it seems to me like he just wanted her gone, even if that meant he was going to the pokey.:eek:

I agree.

The bottom line is if she wanted to kill herself most likely she had plenty of pills available due to her health issues.

Heck he could have given her pills and probably no one would have questioned it.

SadieMae
08-16-2007, 04:07 PM
Her manner of death may have been quick, but horrible. Overdosing seems more likely if she truly wanted to commit suicide. The husband really does look disraught over it. I really don't think he wanted to do this, but like kaybee said, they may have both been at the end of their rope dealing with illness. Perhaps neither were thinking straight because of the emotional and financial toll.

Amraann
08-16-2007, 06:19 PM
Something else confuses me with this story....
The article said she got SSI ....
Or maybe they meant SS for disability... but in either case she would have been covered medically.

They seemed kind of young to be retired so I am assuming she had social security disability which would not pay one dime before covering health costs.
By this I mean that one may not get a check from them monthly but still be eligible for the medicaid coverage.

Your not getting that SSD check and not being covered by medicaid.

MeoW333
08-16-2007, 09:46 PM
He could have sucked up his pride and went public for financial help, raising money for her treatment. If that didn't work, then maybe, just maybe i would buy his "assisted suicide" bit.

bakerprune64
08-17-2007, 02:36 PM
Does anybody remember the Mercy Killing of Emily Gilbert by her husband Roswell? More of that story posted at this link. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1074767,00.html?promoid=googlep

Anyway, I think that in this case posted on this thread, that there was no doubt that health care was a major issue. Even with SSI and some medical benefits through that...their share of cost could have been the $700-$800 per week mentioned in the article. We don't know if the wife expressed a desire to be put out of her misery...she'd been quite ill for several years and weighed a mere 75 pounds!

MagicRose99
08-17-2007, 03:19 PM
Does anybody remember the Mercy Killing of Emily Gilbert by her husband Roswell? More of that story posted at this link. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1074767,00.html?promoid=googlep

Anyway, I think that in this case posted on this thread, that there was no doubt that health care was a major issue. Even with SSI and some medical benefits through that...their share of cost could have been the $700-$800 per week mentioned in the article. We don't know if the wife expressed a desire to be put out of her misery...she'd been quite ill for several years and weighed a mere 75 pounds!

IMO, I sure as heck can't see her asking to be thrown over the balcony... an overdose, maybe...

If you read the article posted on Steve's Crime blog about this (http://crimeblog.us/?p=528 (http://crimeblog.us/?p=528)), you'll see her will to live in it...

bakerprune64
08-17-2007, 04:24 PM
IMO, I sure as heck can't see her asking to be thrown over the balcony... an overdose, maybe...

If you read the article posted on Steve's Crime blog about this (http://crimeblog.us/?p=528 (http://crimeblog.us/?p=528)), you'll see her will to live in it...

Thanks for your post and the link. I still believe, that this man acted out of desperation. Part of me feels as if he also no longer wanted to see her suffer, not purely of financial concern.

Ntegrity
08-17-2007, 04:44 PM
Thanks for your post and the link. I still believe, that this man acted out of desperation. Part of me feels as if he also no longer wanted to see her suffer, not purely of financial concern.

I haven't read anything about this story that would cause me to agree. I'm sure he was desparate but she may not have been ready to die and he had no right to make that decision for her.

It's a shame because many of the drug companies will provide medications FREE to people who can't afford to buy them and don't have insurance.

MagicRose99
08-17-2007, 04:49 PM
I haven't read anything about this story that would cause me to agree. I'm sure he was desparate but she may not have been ready to die and he had no right to make that decision for her.

It's a shame because many of the drug companies will provide medications FREE to people who can't afford to buy them and don't have insurance.

Exactly! It wasn't his decision if she lived or died... it was hers. And I've seen nothing that suggests she was suicidal and that she'd chose being thrown over a balcony as a means to "end it all".

Ntegrity
08-17-2007, 04:52 PM
Sisters of dead woman wanted to keep her away from husband

Two sisters of Criste Reimer said Thursday that they had wanted to keep her away from her husband, who was charged this week with hurling her to her death.

Criste Reimer, who was found dead Tuesday night outside her Country Club Plaza apartment, lived with her mother outside the Kansas City area for several months until mid-July, when Stanley Reimer visited and said he was going to take her to dinner. He took her away and never came back, said her sisters, Vicki Jones and Terri Metrano.

I was scared to death, Jones said. I did not want him around her.

http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/235445.html

Filly
08-17-2007, 05:02 PM
I'm sorry I don't have the link right here, but in our local paper a co-worker said he worked at an Art Museum I believe and said they all had healthcare for their families. That's a sin. No matter what the case.

Peter Hamilton
08-17-2007, 05:50 PM
Assisted suicide only applies when the dying person asks someone to kill them, NOT when they take it upon themselves because the sick person is costing them too much money. This is murder just as if he had shot her.--agree--This is a horrendous case--calls out for the Death Penalty I believe--She was helpless,down to 75 pounds and partly blind--and how sad that this poor woman, only 47 years old,was suffering so much anyway--too young--Anyway, this guy needs to rot in prison forever,if they won't go for the DP

AmandaBrown23
08-17-2007, 08:46 PM
How horrible! I am so sad for this poor lady. Her husband will get whats coming to him.

txsvicki
08-18-2007, 12:33 AM
Did the woman have terminal cancer? I didn't see it mentioned in the linked articles. If the woman had SSI then she should have had Medicaid. Sounds like she recently left him and that's why he killed her.

Bobbisangel
08-18-2007, 02:57 AM
I wonder why he went to her mothers and got her and didn't take her back?
Did she have a life insurance policy that someone was paying that he wanted?
His financial alibi won't float because it sounded like she was doing alright at her mothers. Maybe he wanted her SSI or SSD and that is why he brought her back home. He had a choice...he could have left her at her moms. She had only been home a couple months before he threw her over the balcony.
He deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life. In the picture he doesn't seem to show any emotion. Maybe he is psycho. The family distrusted her with him for some reason.

MysteryAddict
08-18-2007, 01:11 PM
Though I didn't want to get into an argument with anyone, I didn't agree with those at the beginning of this thread. I couldn't believe how some had sympathy for this guy and thought he looked "distraught".

I thought he looked like a mean sob and could never accept any financial excuse for a husband throwing his wife over a balcony!!!

You just don't do this to someone you love! Even if you do believe in "mercy killing" or putting a loved one out of their agony- you just don't pick that person up and throw them over a balcony! What a vicious hateful act!

What an awful way for this poor woman to die.

May the monster pay big time for what he did to her!

Txmom
08-18-2007, 10:19 PM
Communities need to better educated the people living in them. I am under the impression that this man lost his job and med insurance because he had to spend so much time taking care of her. Several things come to mind...1) if you get on a hospice program, sitters can come in and sit while you work, free of charge. 2) medical is provided free of charge (not physicians, but drugs, diapers, boost, etc. 3) why didnt the sisters come in and get a schedule going on who would be with her on what days, make dinner, do the laundry, etc. 4) there is always people who volunteer free of charge to help out, you have to find the right organization to help you, 5) meals on wheels will provide lunch if you call them, 6) if he had inquired at the hospital thru the social workers, they would have told him all of this so that he would not have lost his job and the med insurance, 7) I also think that a drug overdose would have been a better way to die since it would have looked like she did it and not him shoving her off the balacony.

Txmom
08-18-2007, 10:20 PM
Communities need to better educated the people living in them. I am under the impression that this man lost his job and med insurance because he had to spend so much time taking care of her. Several things come to mind...1) if you get on a hospice program, sitters can come in and sit while you work, free of charge. 2) medical is provided free of charge (not physicians, but drugs, diapers, boost, etc. 3) why didnt the sisters come in and get a schedule going on who would be with her on what days, make dinner, do the laundry, etc. 4) there is always people who volunteer free of charge to help out, you have to find the right organization to help you, 5) meals on wheels will provide lunch if you call them, 6) if he had inquired at the hospital thru the social workers, they would have told him all of this so that he would not have lost his job and the med insurance, 7) I also think that a drug overdose would have been a better way to die since it would have looked like she did it and not him shoving her off the balacony, which he did.

txsvicki
08-18-2007, 11:36 PM
I wonder why he went to her mothers and got her and didn't take her back?
Did she have a life insurance policy that someone was paying that he wanted?
His financial alibi won't float because it sounded like she was doing alright at her mothers. Maybe he wanted her SSI or SSD and that is why he brought her back home. He had a choice...he could have left her at her moms. She had only been home a couple months before he threw her over the balcony.
He deserves to be in prison for the rest of his life. In the picture he doesn't seem to show any emotion. Maybe he is psycho. The family distrusted her with him for some reason.

I wonder how long the woman had been on SSI, and if she had moved to the mother's apartment in the first place in order to qualify for it to begin with. Maybe she had even gotten up to a year of backpay from when she first applied and that's what the man was after. I don't see how they lived in a country club apartment if the bills were that bad.

kaybee
08-19-2007, 12:09 PM
I am one of the early posters in this thread who felt sympathy for the man and felt he did look distraught in the police photo. And even though there has been some additional information about this case since I posted, I still don't think he is in the same category as someone who commits cold blooded murder and tries to get away with it. He threw her off his own balcony, for god's sake, then immediately tells police that she didn't jump. Then he admits he did throw her and tells the police why. If he was some calculating vicious creep (and perhaps wanted to benefit financially from his wife's demise), don't you think he would have made it look like an accident? Or maybe just make her 'disappear', never to be found again.
I admit that the way she died was just heinous, and I feel profoundly sad for this woman. Not only for the way she died, but also because of the health burdens she carried from a very young age.
If she did not want to die, it was wrong for her husband to make that choice for her. However, I do not put this man in the same boat as other wife murderers like Scott Peterson and the like. I think he snapped and just wanted an end to all the suffering (for his wife, and yes, selfishly, for himself). I'm not saying he should not be punished, I'm saying that I don't think he's an unrepetant monster. And I feel terrible for this woman and her family.

montana_16
08-20-2007, 05:43 AM
I don't care what his reasons were. What he did was an atrocious, hideous act. Period!

I don't feel sorry for him at all. I could not do that to someone I love.! I could not do such a horrible thing to anyone!

He's so distraught? I notice he sure didn't throw his own ass off.

GlitchWizard
08-20-2007, 08:17 AM
*someone said*
I think he snapped and just wanted an end to all the suffering (for his wife, and yes, selfishly, for himself).


I agree, except I don't know that it's all that selfish if you give and give to the fullest extent of your ability - then beyond it. At that point the snap isn't selfish, it's kind of like the pot boiling over after too much heat is applied. The pan tries it's best to hold it all in, too. :-)

MagicRose99
08-20-2007, 10:14 AM
For those that support this monster: I am so glad that I am not a member of your family. I would hate to think that if something happened to me and I became a "burden" to you that you'd "snap" and kill me to relieve yourself of me and end your "suffering".

kaybee
08-20-2007, 04:31 PM
First off, I think maybe some of you are confusing what I said. I do NOT support this man's decision to throw his unwilling sick wife off the balcony. I do think there are circumstances that were involved that explain why maybe he felt like there was no other alternative. I am NOT writing him a pass for his behavior, nor do I support what he did. And I am HUGELY sad for his wife, especially for her last moments in this world.
Secondly, perhaps I have a bit of a different view on this since I was diagnosed with an illness that will most likely terminate my life within the next ten years (and I am presently only 38 years old). I have had many discussions with my husband about assisted suicide for myself--mainly because when the time comes, I may not be able to make that choice myself since I will most likely be mentally incapacitated. Not to get personal, but when I imagine my husband and my daughter having to watch me neurologically disintegrate in front of them, possibly draining our life's savings only so they can watch this horrible illness turn me into something I do not want to be. I don' want to go through that, and I don't want my family to have to watch that. I'd rather have them remember me for who I really am. I understand that this wife also had the right to make her choice as well, and I respect that. He should go to jail. Doesn't mean I think he's the worst person in the world though.
I greatly resent the implication that someone here made that they are glad they are not part of the families of those who feel sympathy for this man. You have no idea, really. You don't know me from Adam, and I think you've really overstepped by saying that.
Not to get in anyone's face, but these last few posts really hit a nerve with me.
Sorry for the rant.
Thank you.

GlitchWizard
08-20-2007, 05:56 PM
For those that support this monster: I am so glad that I am not a member of your family. I would hate to think that if something happened to me and I became a "burden" to you that you'd "snap" and kill me to relieve yourself of me and end your "suffering".

I think you're mistaking the term snap for just getting tired of handling someone's needs. If you kill someone just because you don't want to handle the care for them, it's 100% opposite of snapping because you've reached the limit to which you CAN care for them. (Not want to, but ability to.) You don't snap based on a cognitive rational thought - you snap when you overload your being.

If you were a member of my family, and I cared about you, I promise I'd only kill you if I wasted away to a mere nothing financially and physically first and would have to be in a hospital for the criminally insane afterwards because I took care of your needs to the detriment of my own.

If I didn't like you, I'd let you live in agony and collect your social security checks. :-)

Actually, the only person I'd give my life over to 100% is my daughter. Everyone else can go to a nursing home, where they don't snap because they don't care.

kaybee
08-20-2007, 06:45 PM
I think you're mistaking the term snap for just getting tired of handling someone's needs. If you kill someone just because you don't want to handle the care for them, it's 100% opposite of snapping because you've reached the limit to which you CAN care for them. (Not want to, but ability to.) You don't snap based on a cognitive rational thought - you snap when you overload your being.

If you were a member of my family, and I cared about you, I promise I'd only kill you if I wasted away to a mere nothing financially and physically first and would have to be in a hospital for the criminally insane afterwards because I took care of your needs to the detriment of my own.

If I didn't like you, I'd let you live in agony and collect your social security checks. :-)

Actually, the only person I'd give my life over to 100% is my daughter. Everyone else can go to a nursing home, where they don't snap because they don't care.

Thanks GlitchWizard. I think people want to believe that if they were the ones taking care of a sick spouse that they would be perfect and always put their loved ones needs first, over everything else without fail. The reality is that no one is perfect--it is hugely draining to be the primary caregiver to a terminally ill person. I know that most caregivers do all they can for their ill family member and do not resort to what this man did, but I'm sure there are days when they just don't know how much longer they can deal with it. My mom cared for her terminally ill sister for three months (we even moved into her home), and my mom just about had a nervous breakdown. I just refuse to accept that this man is some monster. It's too bad he didn't ask for help before it came to it's tragic outcome.

In spite of being pretty hurt/offended at some other people's posts, your joke about collecting SS checks made me smile. I guess this topic just hits a little too close to home for me, so maybe I should stop while I still have a smile on my face.

Peter Hamilton
08-20-2007, 06:51 PM
For those that support this monster: I am so glad that I am not a member of your family. I would hate to think that if something happened to me and I became a "burden" to you that you'd "snap" and kill me to relieve yourself of me and end your "suffering".--nice post MagicRose--this guy is a monster indeed--I wish I could throw HIM off the balcony myself, but I'll let the courts decide his fate--hopefully they'll throw the book at this criminal and lock him up for a long time

MagicRose99
08-20-2007, 08:37 PM
--nice post MagicRose--this guy is a monster indeed--I wish I could throw HIM off the balcony myself, but I'll let the courts decide his fate--hopefully they'll throw the book at this criminal and lock him up for a long time

Thanks Peter! I just don't understand some people... this IS a monster. There simply isn't any excuse for what he did... period... he committed murder for his own purposes. He doesn't deserve any sympathy from anyone.

txsvicki
08-21-2007, 01:04 AM
Just because the man is reported to have said that the wife didn't jump, doesn't exactly mean that he wasn't going to try and say that she fell somehow accidentally. After hours of questioning, LE finally got the story. If there possibly could have been some sort of life insurance she may not have had it long enough to pay out for a suicide or a regular non-accident type of death. It was probably a long way down for the poor woman.

GlitchWizard
08-21-2007, 06:55 AM
Thanks GlitchWizard. I think people want to believe that if they were the ones taking care of a sick spouse that they would be perfect and always put their loved ones needs first, over everything else without fail. The reality is that no one is perfect--it is hugely draining to be the primary caregiver to a terminally ill person. I know that most caregivers do all they can for their ill family member and do not resort to what this man did, but I'm sure there are days when they just don't know how much longer they can deal with it. My mom cared for her terminally ill sister for three months (we even moved into her home), and my mom just about had a nervous breakdown. I just refuse to accept that this man is some monster. It's too bad he didn't ask for help before it came to it's tragic outcome.

In spite of being pretty hurt/offended at some other people's posts, your joke about collecting SS checks made me smile. I guess this topic just hits a little too close to home for me, so maybe I should stop while I still have a smile on my face.

My mother came up from Florida and my aunt came over from California - putting their careers in jepordy and their marraiges as well, to care for my dying grandfather for the months before he died of cancer. My Grandmother was a complete jerkface and my other local aunt was, too, so it came down to two people who couldn't take the time out of their lives - but did anyway. The fights that ensued were horrendous, the stress and strain was incredible. My family is rich, so it wasn't a question of money (thank God) but emotional resources can totally run dry.

Maybe he did ask for help - but who are you going to ask that will help without demanding money to do it? For some things, there IS no help.

On a smaller scale, my Mom screwed her back up and was bedridden for two weeks while I was in college. I came home to care for her alongside my stepfather, but after just a week of dealing with her physical inability to go to the bathroom in a toilet - I high tailed it back to college and dumped my own mother on my stepfather to care for. Now that I am older, I THINK I could handle it somewhat better - and I did handle it better with my grandfather - but sometimes, it's a definite overload. That was such a small scale - what if Mom were like that permenantly and I didn't have help? How could I work to get money to eat? To pay for someone to watch her while I worked? What would the solution have been? I don't know.

southcitymom
08-21-2007, 04:11 PM
... Everyone else can go to a nursing home, where they don't snap because they don't care.

Ouch, because it's true.

2sisters
08-21-2007, 04:23 PM
Did the woman have terminal cancer? I didn't see it mentioned in the linked articles. If the woman had SSI then she should have had Medicaid. Sounds like she recently left him and that's why he killed her.
Not nessisarily (SP?). my FIL was denied medicaid at first and recieves SSI. He was put on a temporary waiver through medicaid. He can be dropped at any time.He will qualify for medicaire in the year 2009. he didn't qualify for traditional medicaid because his whopping 640 dollars SSI was too much income I guess. It is not as easy and cut and dry as you might think to get on medicaid. I thought the same thing until this all started with him.