Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 12

[Jeana (DP)]

Please continue

[JanetElaine]

Source for the picture I posted last night....

http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/6....html?p=13, 1 (http://www.telegraaf.nl/buitenland/65604861/Zoektocht_met_speurhonden_na_tip_Maddie.html?p=13, 1)


In the article it is said that it's a towel. At least that's cleared up then. :)

[wtsn5]

Not sure if this has been stated but by reading the threads the Dutch PI firmed that was investigating Maddies disappearance is in trouble with the LE because only the police are allowed to investigate crimes. This could be why the McCanns have never hired their own PI firm. I am only stating this because in other threads people have commented on why the McCanns have not hired a PI firm with the money that was donated. I also read that they are not allowed to discuss the facts of this case which is maybe why they look guilty to alot of people - they can't defend themselves without releasing factual information.

Alot of people are commenting on how they would react if this happened to them in reality we really don't know how we would react or what we would do if this happened to us. And please remember the laws of our own country are not the laws of the country they are in. What we would do or the actions we may take maybe against the law in that country.

Like other on here I will hold off on judging the McCanns until the police have presented their facts.

All of the above is IMO

[colomom]

Absolutely Shazza.
And thats how it should be. No country has the right to interfere in any other country.
The UK police have only become involved in Madeleine's case because the Portugese police particularly requested certain help. As in the searches of the properties and cars using dogs.
My point was I think its natural that most of us would have more confidence in our own police and wish for their help. Particularly if there is a language barrier.

I think the UK police have been much more involved than we realize. I would refer you to my post #355 on the last thread.

http://www.the-news.net/ArticleImage.aspx?article=25_08_2007_002_003&mode=undefined

Sousa talks about how they have been closely working with UK LE since May 7.

[colomom]

This is a link to the video being discussed on the Mirror board in which Gerry loses his cool....

(Apparently you can only view it if you have IE)

http://www.lanoria.telecinco.es/dn_250.htm

English translation of the webpage: http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient-menuext&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elanoria%2Etelecinco%2Ees%2Fdn %5F250%2Ehtm

Scroll down the page for the links to the videos.

Vídeo: Gerry McCann, ofendido, abandona la entrevista

[CaliKid]

This is a link to the video being discussed on the Mirror board in which Gerry loses his cool....

(Apparently you can only view it if you have IE)

http://www.lanoria.telecinco.es/dn_250.htm

English translation of the webpage: http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient-menuext&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elanoria%2Etelecinco%2Ees%2Fdn %5F250%2Ehtm

Scroll down the page for the links to the videos.

Vídeo: Gerry McCann, ofendido, abandona la entrevista

It was taped before Gerry went to Edinburgh for the media festival over the weekend. I'm not making excuses for him, but GM specifically told them that he couldn't discuss questions about the case before the interview began and when they asked two in a row, he lost his cool and stomped off, leaving Kate to carry on alone. There was some sort of panel involved who discussed the "leaving kids alone" viewpoint and blamed Madeleine's fate on the McCanns' neglect.

I do wish KM would stop carrying that stuffed toy around with her. Cuddle Cat has served its purpose.

[colomom]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/01/2007_32_wed.shtml

Kate's solo radio interview....

[april4sky]

I think the UK police have been much more involved than we realize. I would refer you to my post #355 on the last thread.

http://www.the-news.net/ArticleImage.aspx?article=25_08_2007_002_003&mode=undefined

Sousa talks about how they have been closely working with UK LE since May 7.

I have no doubt that the UK police have made themselves available to help the Portugese police in any way they could from day one.
And as I have said before. No country has a right to interfere in another. And nor should they. Just be available to help if requested. Which has happened in Madeleine's case.
Some of that help would have been better requested sooner though IMO. As with the searches made with the dogs.

Unfortunately I couldn't get the Video to work.
So I can only comment on what I read and am not really surprised that he became upset.
They new when they asked a question about evidence that he has said time and again that he can't discuss it!!!

[april4sky]

It was taped before Gerry went to Edinburgh for the media festival over the weekend. I'm not making excuses for him, but GM specifically told them that he couldn't discuss questions about the case before the interview began and when they asked two in a row, he lost his cool and stomped off

Thanks Callikid. I posted before I read your post and you have cleared up the "video" question.

[Rino]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/01/2007_32_wed.shtml

Kate's solo radio interview....
Thanks for the link and everything!

I still have a problem with the lack of guilt she has over leaving the kids. Somehow involved, guilty or innocent I don't understand how she can still justify leaving those kids.

She also claims the twins are in constant care of family or themselves ( I would not let them out of my sight) but they go to kids club for a couple of hours each morning. Can't have it both ways, I just wonder which is it.

Same with the short distance to dinner, that is simply and understatement.

I don't know what to make of the "30 seconds and I knew she had been taken"

[sherri79]

maybe part of my feeling on this couple are culture differences. i look at fathers in America who have been on tv pleading for the return of their child then i look at GM and i dont find him all that believable. it seems alot of people in his own county believe him. i always think of the fathers i've seen and can not imagine them saying some of the things GM says.

i look at his actions and it does not fit with what i have seen fathers here do. john walsh wrote in his book that one of the first things he did was try and clear his name and that of his wife. he felt that the sooner he was clear the sooner all the focus would be on finding his lost child. mark klaas says that the parent is always the first suspect and you do whatever you can to help the police. that way the police dont have to look at 2 different cases at the same time. you wont have police splitting their time between did the parents do it or was it a stranger.

my gut tells me it is just human nature. a father is a father no matter where he is from. then i read post after post in the papers from Britain that says it is not really neglect. if they feel that it is not abuse to leave your child alone at night in a strange place then how can i judge any thing about them personally. my gut says they are not acting as they should. my head says anyone who can leave babies alone like that while they enjoy themselves is so far removed from my concept of normal that i will not be able to understand any thing they do.

[CaliKid]

I don't know what to make of the "30 seconds and I knew she had been taken"

I could understand returning to my hotel room during dinner and finding it in total disaray from someone breaking in and stealing from me, but from all accounts this isn't what happened. And how would KM know, even with someone breaking in, whether he/she took Madeleine or left in a hurry and she wandered off through an open door?

[Morag]

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/display.var.1391789.0.0.php?act=complaint&cid=268901

Gerry McCann, who was questioned by police yesterday and into the early hours of this morning, also said he had seen at first hand the resources being poured into the investigation.

.

I thought the PJ was hardly doin' anything?


As he was speaking, it was reported in the Portuguese newspaper Correio Da Manha that police had two suspects in mind.

No kidding? Me too.

Although police said last night that there had been no arrests, the newspaper reported that the two suspects were at the police station yesterday and the McCanns had been shown them to see if they could identify them.

Is this the part with the mirrors?


At one stage officers from Portugal's Guarda Nacional Republicana were seen dramatically leaping between third-floor balconies and climbing over rooftops, apparently examining possible access or escape routes for a child snatcher.

Would love to have seen this! Makes sense that a child snatcher would ignore the unlocked windows, and then make his/her way up to the third floor, passing Mrs. Fenn's observation point, and from there to the next roof over. Very clever- they probably had the dogs up there, too.

[mrsmousemat]

[quote=sherri79;1647105]maybe part of my feeling on this couple are culture differences. i look at fathers in America who have been on tv pleading for the return of their child then i look at GM and i dont find him all that believable. it seems alot of people in his own county believe him. i always think of the fathers i've seen and can not imagine them saying some of the things GM says.

He is from Glasgow and even British people find the Glasgow accent hard to understand. He doesn't have a very marked one as you can understand what he is saying, but the manner of Glasgow people is quite tough and abrasive - although Glasgow people are individually very nice - It is considered a 'hard' place.

Some British people find American culture very 'over the top', in terms of expressing their personal feelings, so there is a culture divide here. (see Tom Cruise - Oprah Winfrey). Personally I don't think that I would like him very much if I met him as he comes across as arrogant ( a common personality trait of hospital doctors by my experience) but that doesn't mean he's guilty of anything except being over confident in leaving his children.

I did wonder if the child who was calling for 'Daddy', reported by the neighbour was M, as I would have called for 'Mummy', given a choice but maybe the father was the last to visit the bedroom.

To answer an earlier query, which I couldn't reply to, as regards Robert Murat, sorry I can't help any further as to whether people still think he had something to do with M's disappearance.

I live way out in the country, so the word on my street is mainly 'Baa' or 'Moo'. So I have no further infromation than that which is on the British websites.

[docwho3]

When we read that L.E. in this case are doing things that seem silly to us we need to keep in mind that we do not know and do not see the same things as L.E. The facts we think we know are really only those which are alleged (declared or stated to be as described; asserted) in the news articles and those "facts" may be made up and/or distorted beyond recognition from the truth and then news articles might also not know many many things that L.E. know. So in essence our view of the case is as twisted and out of the loop as those of the news articles we have read.

Some of the news articles even appear to be simply parroting what they have read in other papers themselves. Several news articles have said "It has been reported" or "it is being reported" before the news "facts" they go on to relate to us.

When we think we know a window was open it may not have been open or even unlocked. We just do not know. I remember in a high profile child murder case it was widely reported that there were no prints around the house and only more than a year later did it surface that infact those reports were false. Yet if we had seen reports of L.E. searching outside the house in that case we might have thought they were being really stupid because we all thought there were no prints outside the house and thus proof that no intruder entered or exited the house.

So if L.E. searched roof tops in this case of Madeleine McCann either there was evidence that led them to believe it was a necessary search or the news reports were innaccurate in reporting that roofs were searched.
**********

As to whether the L.E. involved are doing a good job or not I can't say for sure but I am impressed that the two countries appear to be working together instead of each trying to carve out their own turf. To me that says both are acting in a fairly professional manner.
**********
I have seen the posts that allege coverup by the Brits on this case and I wonder where they have seen this reported in the media because so far all I have read in this regard comes from people posting here and not from actual MSM news reports.

[CaliKid]

I live way out in the country, so the word on my street is mainly 'Baa' or 'Moo'. So I have no further infromation than that which is on the British websites.

:laugh: I don't speak cow or sheep, so which means yes and which means no?

[colomom]

I wonder if you all might be willing to do something for me....

Read this entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping
and give me your initial impression. Nothing complicated, just your initial reaction.

No pressure or obligation, only if you want to. Thanks, in advance.

[CarpeDiem]

I wonder if you all might be willing to do something for me....

Read this entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping
and give me your initial impression. Nothing complicated, just your initial reaction.

No pressure or obligation, only if you want to. Thanks, in advance.

I can't give you a fist impression because I know that case so well. There are similarities to this one on the surface, some very interesting (original suspect description), but not in regard to the parents.

[Jdee]

I wonder if you all might be willing to do something for me....

Read this entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping
and give me your initial impression. Nothing complicated, just your initial reaction.

No pressure or obligation, only if you want to. Thanks, in advance.

My first impression was the younger daughter remembered vital critical information at a much later date which gives hope that the twins will also maybe at some point remember something also from the night Madeleine vanished.. that is of course if they were not drugged.

[mrsmousemat]

:laugh: I don't speak cow or sheep, so which means yes and which means no?

I think the Moo may mean Murat but as for the Baa it impossible to say.

[Salem]

I wonder if you all might be willing to do something for me....

Read this entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping
and give me your initial impression. Nothing complicated, just your initial reaction.

No pressure or obligation, only if you want to. Thanks, in advance.

Two things catch my eye after a very quick first reading:

That morning, Ed went on television and asked the kidnapper to return his daughter.[25] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping#_note-18) A massive search for Elizabeth began.[26] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping#_note-19)

and the 2nd thing was that 5 days later - Ed Smart took a polygraph. Apparently he passed. The point is that within 5 days - he took that test.

Show me where the McCanns have ever asked for the return of their daughter or have ever stated a message directly to her.......

Kate always says... "Madeleine, she knows I (we) love her"

My :twocents:

Salem

[CaliKid]

I wonder if you all might be willing to do something for me....

Read this entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping
and give me your initial impression. Nothing complicated, just your initial reaction.

No pressure or obligation, only if you want to. Thanks, in advance.

Unfortunately, I closely followed this case as well, but one thing I do remember was the joy I felt when a friend told me that Elizabeth had been found alive.

I have to agree about the Smart family opening up their lives to investigation. Even though they had some disagreements with the SLC police department, they always took the high road. There was a vicious rumor going around early on that the father or uncles might have given Elizabeth to a relative in a polygamous, incestuous "marriage". Very soon after, every adult male in her family submitted themselves to polygraphs and passed.

[Shazza]

I noticed how quick the parents were to start finding their daughter, even though they were told about it 2 hours or so later by their other daughter, which makes me think if there were no drugs involved with the McCanns then maybe the twins saw or heard something, but would probably not remember anything now.

[SieSie]

I posted a question in Part 11 asking about the dna results on the blood and the thread got closed before I could thank you all for letting me know that it hasn't been released yet. It's so hard to keep up with all of this, I can't believe we're on part 12. :( Prayers for Madeleine.

[april4sky]

I wonder if you all might be willing to do something for me....

Read this entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping
and give me your initial impression. Nothing complicated, just your initial reaction.

No pressure or obligation, only if you want to. Thanks, in advance.

My impession. When we don't know the true facts it can lead to a rush to judjement. As Ed Smart and Mr Ricci found out.

[docwho3]

. . .and the 2nd thing was that 5 days later - Ed Smart took a polygraph. Apparently he passed. The point is that within 5 days - he took that test.

Show me where the McCanns have ever asked for the return of their daughter or have ever stated a message directly to her . . . We should keep in mind that both cases were not in the same country. One was in a country that uses lie detector tests in investigation and the other case happened in a country that evidently does not use that investigative tool. It is almost like comparing apples to rocks, not really the same thing.

If I was in a country that did not normally use that tool I would certainly not ask them to use it on me because I would doubt their ability to use it properly due to lack of practice and I would not waste valuable time and money trying to fly in my own expert because no one would believe my own expert was telling anything other than what I paid him to say.

[Texana]

He is from Glasgow and even British people find the Glasgow accent hard to understand. He doesn't have a very marked one as you can understand what he is saying, but the manner of Glasgow people is quite tough and abrasive - although Glasgow people are individually very nice - It is considered a 'hard' place.


Thank you for that information! I kept thinking that Gerry sounded Scottish but as no one else mentioned it...I thought what did I know. I have heard that about Glaswegians from reading Ian Rankin novels but you never know if those are stereotypes or more truthful in general. I wanted to ask about Gerry's background and the accent I heard, but couldn't figure out how to say it appropriately.

The problem is that Gerry's attitude and the responses of the other dinner party attendees make it harder to figure out the true timeline (unless of course, they are talking quite differently now to British and Portugese LE, which is entirely possible.) The tapas bar staff noticed only that Russell O'Brien was absent from the table, but Gerry's absence was corroborated by Jeremy Wilkins. The windows of time are all contradicted.

The time line is the only thing that could back up the cadaver dogs' actions (if true) or refute them. I've read where there could be as much as a 10% margin of error with the dogs, and the possibility of the handler's actions affecting the dogs' actions as well. Unlike a perfectly performed DNA lab test, the dogs' reactions are more subject to human actions and possible error.

If the cadaver dogs were accurate, then the time frame for any action that would end in resolution would be much more stringent. That might explain the conflict--if true--between Gerry and the relatives administering the funds from the donations.

[Trino]

Personally, I would like to hear more from the other persons at the dinner party. If I were one of them, I would be beside myself, trying to think, rethink the situation and trying to help as much as possible. I just don't see this reaction from them.

[mrsmousemat]

Thank you for that information! I kept thinking that Gerry sounded Scottish but as no one else mentioned it...I thought what did I know. I have heard that about Glaswegians from reading Ian Rankin novels but you never know if those are stereotypes or more truthful in general. I wanted to ask about Gerry's background and the accent I heard, but couldn't figure out how to say it appropriately.

The problem is that Gerry's attitude and the responses of the other dinner party attendees make it harder to figure out the true timeline (unless of course, they are talking quite differently now to British and Portugese LE, which is entirely possible.) The tapas bar staff noticed only that Russell O'Brien was absent from the table, but Gerry's absence was corroborated by Jeremy Wilkins. The windows of time are all contradicted.

The time line is the only thing that could back up the cadaver dogs' actions (if true) or refute them. I've read where there could be as much as a 10% margin of error with the dogs, and the possibility of the handler's actions affecting the dogs' actions as well. Unlike a perfectly performed DNA lab test, the dogs' reactions are more subject to human actions and possible error.

If the cadaver dogs were accurate, then the time frame for any action that would end in resolution would be much more stringent. That might explain the conflict--if true--between Gerry and the relatives administering the funds from the donations.

The problem is that we still have no authoritive statement on what dog did what, where and when.

With the timing, it is possible that one sniffed out the traces of blood in the bedroom but that is about all we can guess - until we get a statement from either the PD or the British police.

All the timings are likely to have been minutes out either way - as, if you notice - they are usually given 5 past, or ten past etc or exactly x o'clock. It is never 23 minutes past the hour for example.

This means that the probability is that they were the approximate guesses of people on holiday - who weren't really paying much attention to the clock.

My opinion is that, logically, if the McCanns had of been responsible for the death of Madeleine , the best course of action would have been to shut up from the first, say as little as possible, let the Portuguese police come and take their statement and do their 'search' and go home swiftly afterwards.

However, the logicical answer isn't always the right one.

[mrsmousemat]

Personally, I would like to hear more from the other persons at the dinner party. If I were one of them, I would be beside myself, trying to think, rethink the situation and trying to help as much as possible. I just don't see this reaction from them.

They can't say anything as it is against the law in Portugal to make public pronoucements on the case, while the police are investigating it. It would be interesting to know if public statements can be made after any court trial.

The so-called 'Pact of Silence' amongst the party is due to the fact that the press will have tried to get them to contradict one another to make a story, as conflict makes the best reading, even when it doesn't exist.

They can't say anything anyway - and they know that if they did, a lot of what they said would be mis-interpreted, having been aware of what was already printed. Thus the 'pact'.

[docwho3]

Personally, I would like to hear more from the other persons at the dinner party. If I were one of them, I would be beside myself, trying to think, rethink the situation and trying to help as much as possible. I just don't see this reaction from them. Hopefully someday we will be able to hear from the friends. I too would like to hear more from them when it is possible.

[colomom]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/17503/Maddy-New-setback-over-DNA-evidence

MADDY: NEW SETBACK OVER DNA EVIDENCE

[Shazza]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/17503/Maddy-New-setback-over-DNA-evidence

This is a snippet for the above link.
“The police have said they are not suspects but the attitude towards them has altered.”

they being the McCanns.



MADDY: NEW SETBACK OVER DNA EVIDENCE


Looks like we have to wait a little longer, at least they are being thorough, I just hope we have some answers when the DNA results are released.

Somehow part of my quote got into colomoms quote. Sorry guys, hope it doesnt confuse anyone.

[april4sky]

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/17503/Maddy-New-setback-over-DNA-evidence

MADDY: NEW SETBACK OVER DNA EVIDENCE

Interesting.
But as usual there was not one "Name" in the whole article.

It was either. An expert at the Science Service "said" .
Or a family "Friend" said.
And of course their very favourite word "Source"

Hopefully they are just trying to be sensational...No surprise there as thats what sells papers.

Either way I will wait until we're told "officially"

[Shazza]

Interesting.
But as usual there was not one "Name" in the whole article.

It was either. An expert at the Science Service "said" .
Or a family "Friend" said.
And of course their very favourite word "Source"

Hopefully they are just trying to be sensational...No surprise there as thats what sells papers.

Either way I will wait until we're told "officially"
I agree April, that is all we can do now, play the waiting game.

[april4sky]

I agree April, that is all we can do now, play the waiting game.
Hi Shazza. This waiting is so frustrating isn't it.
The longer it goes on too the less trust I have in the press.....Not that I had a lot before this case.
They are always under pressure so they won't let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Sorry, I do sound cynical don't I.

Patience is a virtue, so i'm told. But it's not something i'm good at. :)

[CaliKid]

I agree about the sensationalism. "Bitter attacks", "variety of slurs", etc. Now they're even getting more personal and using the marriage-coming-apart-at-the-seams pathos. The McCanns' falling apart wouldn't be surprising under the circumstances. I've seen marriages come undone over a lot less than a missing child.

[CaliKid]

Colomom, what conclusions did you come up with from the Smart kidnapping?

[colomom]

Day 117 - 28/08/2007

We, like everyone else, await the results of the forensics from the recent searches. We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why. Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand. An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended. Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear.

If you have done something you regret, if you find yourself in a situation you never intended, it is not too late to do the right thing. Please come forward, return Madeleine, leave her in a place of safety. At the very least, help us by letting us know what has happened to our beautiful little girl.

[Salem]

Day 117 - 28/08/2007

We, like everyone else, await the results of the forensics from the recent searches. We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why. Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand. An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended. Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear.

If you have done something you regret, if you find yourself in a situation you never intended, it is not too late to do the right thing. Please come forward, return Madeleine, leave her in a place of safety. At the very least, help us by letting us know what has happened to our beautiful little girl.

Okay - I say WOW:clap:

It's about time.... so what does everyone think is going on here?:confused: Is this because Gerry lost his cool? The papers are being too nasty? I am surprised and actually, gladdened, by this heartfelt plea.

Salem

[KR2tonenow]

Day 117 - 28/08/2007

We, like everyone else, await the results of the forensics from the recent searches. We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why. Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand. An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended. Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear.

If you have done something you regret, if you find yourself in a situation you never intended, it is not too late to do the right thing. Please come forward, return Madeleine, leave her in a place of safety. At the very least, help us by letting us know what has happened to our beautiful little girl.

This is quite nice indeed! I think I would have liked to have heard it months ago, however. The DNA will hopefully bring more light to this situation.

[Elphaba]

Day 117 - 28/08/2007

We, like everyone else, await the results of the forensics from the recent searches. We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why. Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand. An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended. Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear.

If you have done something you regret, if you find yourself in a situation you never intended, it is not too late to do the right thing. Please come forward, return Madeleine, leave her in a place of safety. At the very least, help us by letting us know what has happened to our beautiful little girl.


It is good to read him calling out for her return, but that first paragraph almost comes across as a confessional. Not that it is... it just has that inkling, given what has come out up to this point.

[CarpeDiem]

Day 117 - 28/08/2007

We, like everyone else, await the results of the forensics from the recent searches. We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why. Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand. An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended. Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear.

If you have done something you regret, if you find yourself in a situation you never intended, it is not too late to do the right thing. Please come forward, return Madeleine, leave her in a place of safety. At the very least, help us by letting us know what has happened to our beautiful little girl.

It's about time, HOPE it's not too late.

[CaliKid]

Day 117 - 28/08/2007

We, like everyone else, await the results of the forensics from the recent searches. We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why. Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand. An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended. Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear.

If you have done something you regret, if you find yourself in a situation you never intended, it is not too late to do the right thing. Please come forward, return Madeleine, leave her in a place of safety. At the very least, help us by letting us know what has happened to our beautiful little girl.
I think the McCanns are reading the numerous blogs and forums about Madeleine and have begun to accurately comprehend the near-universal criticism of their behavior since she disappeared. Call me cynical, but this looks like a measure of damage control. I even have doubts the GM wrote it himself because he has a certain style in his blog that I don't see here.

[colomom]

Colomom, what conclusions did you come up with from the Smart kidnapping?

Hi Cali, hi all...

I have been around, mostly lurking and checking for anything "interesting" in the press or on the many other forums and blogs. My kiddos started back to school this week and my little girl got sick on her first day (she fainted!) and I had to bring her home (that was yesterday). Today, with the full moon and a lunar eclipse, I have been very out of sorts. That is just to explain my being "away".

I have a certain cynical side to my personality and sometimes I really wonder about conspiracies and evil deeds done by powerful people. I always try to read between the lines and try to discern things that may be hidden.

I will spend some time this evening giving you my impression, but, I gotta go feed these kids!!

I will be back....I hope.

[Trino]

Cali, you may be correct about the damage control.

Honestly, I just don't know how to read the parents. One minute I'm sure they're somehow hiding something; the next, I have a sympathetic moment. The why and how just doesn't add up enough to completely convince me of anything nor do the reactions of the parents, especially the immediate comment about someone taking Madeline.

What if we separate feelings about the parents? Could GM have done something on his own?

[CaliKid]

The Mirror forums are discussing Gerry's blog entry and say it's his way of proposing how a confession would sit. They even think he may become suicidal.

And there are many people who believe his blogs have been code-speak between him and the rest of the couples who went to Portugal with them. That maybe he is communicating that it's time to tell the truth, etc.

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8552&sid=5c99ea2f8b656adf0c74b766239e1cc4

[Texana]

I think the McCanns are reading the numerous blogs and forums about Madeleine and have begun to accurately comprehend the near-universal criticism of their behavior since she disappeared. Call me cynical, but this looks like a measure of damage control. I even have doubts the GM wrote it himself because he has a certain style in his blog that I don't see here.

Agreed. I think also that this bears the imprint of a professional PR or other type of writer. I think that Gerry as a professional himself, would be very comfortable with the idea of a professional writer/other speaking "for him" on his blog.

"Voice" in writing is very unique. You don't know what it is exactly, but you know when it's not there. It has to do with things like rhythm, word choice, idioms, and even contraction and punctuation. It's almost impossible to teach in some ways because it is such a personal thing. Some people do use a much stiffer tone in writing simply because they aren't comfortable writing though.
When something sounds like someone other than the professed author wrote it, it usually has been written by someone else.

[Jdee]

Day 117 - 28/08/2007

We, like everyone else, await the results of the forensics from the recent searches. We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why. Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand. An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended. Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear.

If you have done something you regret, if you find yourself in a situation you never intended, it is not too late to do the right thing. Please come forward, return Madeleine, leave her in a place of safety. At the very least, help us by letting us know what has happened to our beautiful little girl.

Too little to late...:twocents:

[meowy]

Maybe Kate put that blog entry up?

That's just a personal thought, not fact of course.

[colomom]

Colomom, what conclusions did you come up with from the Smart kidnapping?

Hi Cali, hi all...

I have been around, mostly lurking and checking for anything "interesting" in the press or on the many other forums and blogs. My kiddos started back to school this week and my little girl got sick on her first day (she fainted!) and I had to bring her home (that was yesterday). Today, with the full moon and a lunar eclipse, I have been very out of sorts. That is just to explain my being "away".

I have a certain cynical side to my personality and sometimes I really wonder about conspiracies and evil deeds done by powerful people. I always try to read between the lines and try to discern things that may be hidden.

I will spend some time this evening giving you my impression, but, I gotta go feed these kids!!

I will be back....I hope.

[colomom]

http://www.crimeandclues.com/oct964.htm

Statement Analysis: What Do Suspects' Words Really Reveal?

[colomom]

Copied from the Mirror Board: http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8567

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia.asp?id=255817&idselect=20&idCanal=20&p=0

"Check out the image's left corner. You can read "Syringe found in the room".
There is also something below but it is not very perceptible. All I can read is Judiciaria and tranquilizers."

Please...somebody...is that what is really says??

[CaliKid]

Copied from the Mirror Board: http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8567

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia.asp?id=255817&idselect=20&idCanal=20&p=0

"Check out the image's left corner. You can read "Syringe found in the room".
There is also something below but it is not very perceptible. All I can read is Judiciaria and tranquilizers."

Please...somebody...is that what is really says??

This is tomorrow's edition, and I guess it isn't out yet.

There are one of two possibilities. 1) The newspaper is making things up, or 2) there is a serious leak in the PJ, releasing delicate information from the case to the media.

[colomom]

This is tomorrow's edition, and I guess it isn't out yet.

There are one of two possibilities. 1) The newspaper is making things up, or 2) there is a serious leak in the PJ, releasing delicate information from the case to the media.

Yea, that's what I was thinking...serious leak.

There is alot of talk back and forth about exactly what kind of "syringe" this might be, maybe not as sinister as it sounds. The paper is also described as a sensational type. I guess we should wait until tomorrow to see who else, if anyone, picks it up....see where it goes.

Still makes me :sick: though....

[CaliKid]

I know when my children were young, I used an oral medication syringe to give them meds. It was a lot easier and less messy than a spoon.

[capricorn]

Don't know if you guys have ever read this blog, but she's been accurate in the past. Just another viewpoint.

http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2007/08/kate-and-gerry-mccann.html

[KR2tonenow]

Don't know if you guys have ever read this blog, but she's been accurate in the past. Just another viewpoint.

http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2007/08/kate-and-gerry-mccann.html

This is an interesting blurb, but definitely her O.

I don't feel that confident about them. I think the article above from Colomon, states (in regards to murdered children of parents), how a parent lies to cover up. I think this article is very accurate in stating when parents lie, they talk in the past tense. This couple looks down when spoken to, appear very nervous, and also detached.

[CaliKid]

Don't know if you guys have ever read this blog, but she's been accurate in the past. Just another viewpoint.

http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2007/08/kate-and-gerry-mccann.html

This was her first take on the case, from May 26: http://eyesforlies.blogspot.com/2007/05/madeline-mccanns-parents.html

She said she didn't think their behavior was unusual because they are optimistic people who didn't consider the world a bad place and may have truly felt that nothing bad would happen to Madeleine. It just makes me wonder how two parents, who must have seen a lot of terrible tragedies in the careers as doctors, could walk through the world in such denial.

Since the interview capricorn quoted is from Aug. 7, I wonder what she would make of the Sky News interview where Gerry won't look at the journalist and skirts around some questions.

[CaliKid]

Here's another site that talks about how LE can determine if someone is lying about a crime.

http://www.crimeandclues.com/oct964.htm

[CaliKid]

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/opinion/article2901211.ece

Interesting article on the media frenzy over Madeleine.

[CaliKid]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/13912/DIVIDED-IN-GRIEF/

Divided in Grief

Yeah, I think it's one of those papers like our Nationa Enquirer, but it sounded like an interesting read.

Apparently the real story about the separate trips to mass is that the PDL church has a once-a-month English-speaking service on a Saturday evening, and KM wanted to attend it. GM was in Scotland at the time so she went alone. Once he returned he went to one of the Sunday services.

[april4sky]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/13912/DIVIDED-IN-GRIEF/

Divided in Grief

Yeah, I think it's one of those papers like our Nationa Enquirer, but it sounded like an interesting read.



Exactly right. It is a tabloid which very much resembles the National Enquirer. They have also lifted this story from another tabloid.

[docwho3]

08/29/2007 1 hour 24 minutes ago (from time of post)
". . . The tension started to build after Mr Gonzalez asked the couple: "You were the last people to see Madeleine alive, is that correct?"
Mr McCann replied: "That's part of the investigation and we are not going to divulge any information about the investigation that might help the perpetrator of this crime to cover his tracks.". . ."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20070829/tuk-mccann-walks-out-of-tv-interview-6323e80_2.html

[Shazza]

Cali, you may be correct about the damage control.

Honestly, I just don't know how to read the parents. One minute I'm sure they're somehow hiding something; the next, I have a sympathetic moment. The why and how just doesn't add up enough to completely convince me of anything nor do the reactions of the parents, especially the immediate comment about someone taking Madeline.

What if we separate feelings about the parents? Could GM have done something on his own?

The McCanns are coming across to me as hot and cold, I too have felt that one parent knows more than the other, or is covering up for the other....which one I dont know, as Kate was the one who discovered Madelaine missing or so the story goes. There are too many scenerios going on in my head, I dont know what to believe anymore.

[Rino]

I think the McCanns are reading the numerous blogs and forums about Madeleine and have begun to accurately comprehend the near-universal criticism of their behavior since she disappeared. Call me cynical, but this looks like a measure of damage control. I even have doubts the GM wrote it himself because he has a certain style in his blog that I don't see here.
Yep, that was my impression, too.

[mrsmousemat]

08/29/2007 1 hour 24 minutes ago (from time of post)
". . . The tension started to build after Mr Gonzalez asked the couple: "You were the last people to see Madeleine alive, is that correct?"
Mr McCann replied: "That's part of the investigation and we are not going to divulge any information about the investigation that might help the perpetrator of this crime to cover his tracks.". . ."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20070829/tuk-mccann-walks-out-of-tv-interview-6323e80_2.html (http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20070829/tuk-mccann-walks-out-of-tv-interview-6323e80_2.html)

When a person on pbulic view does a TV interview his/her PR will ask for the questions in advance and tell the programme makers what areas the person will not answer.

It's my guess that the McCanns agreed to do the interview ( they don't have to do any interviews, other than for a specific purpose as they are scaling back their campaign ) because they think that M might still be alive and being held in Spain.

Usually there is only a few minutes in which to get any message across ( in other circumstances film or book plugging), then the next item is run.

I think that either the TV programme reneged on its word... and yes they do, if they do not need the person to return.

Or he very annoyed at not having enough time to get his point across after he has given the same information, over and over again - that they cannot answer questions due to Portuguese law.

If they say anything anyone brought to court in the future can argue 'Unfair publicity on the evidence pre-trial ' and maybe the trial would be declared void. No one wants this.

[mrsmousemat]

I think the McCanns are reading the numerous blogs and forums about Madeleine and have begun to accurately comprehend the near-universal criticism of their behavior since she disappeared. Call me cynical, but this looks like a measure of damage control. I even have doubts the GM wrote it himself because he has a certain style in his blog that I don't see here.

I think that you are right in that he didn't write this himself but I believe it is written this way for the following reasons.

We, like everyone else, await the results of the forensics from the recent searches. (Usually when we speak we do not put sub-clauses in that this point - 'like everyone else' so this maybe a sign that it has been written in advance - but with professional advice.)

We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why. Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand. (He starts appealing indirectly to anyone who may have her. )

An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended. (He's saying to the person responsible that he as understands that they didn't mean to do it to get them to come forward ).

Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear. (It's a Catholic country).

If you have done something you regret, if you find yourself in a situation you never intended, it is not too late to do the right thing. (Reinforcing first paragraph ).

Please come forward, return Madeleine, leave her in a place of safety. At the very least, help us by letting us know what has happened to our beautiful little girl. (The straightforward plea).

If he had more to say to the person that he believes is the abductor, then he would get extremely annoyed if he was interrrupted with more questions that he cannot legally answer, especially since he may realise that it's an outside chance that any adbductor will be viewing and that the broadcast is a very slim hope.

It is very difficult for any parent in this position to 'speak' to the abductor if it is not scripted because the first inclination is to show real feelings, but this would probably not provoke any response from an abductor.

[colomom]

Colomom, what conclusions did you come up with from the Smart kidnapping?

I finally have some time to give you a brief rundown of the details that I found to be "interesting" in the wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping):

1. Upper middle class family
2. Failed to complete security measures
3. Abduction occured with sibling present
4. Window tampered with
5. Search with many neighbors participating
6. Immediate contact with authorities, neighbors, family & friends
7. Crime scene contamination
8. Immediate media involvement
9. Coalition of websites and pre-formatted flyers
10. No significant forensic evidence
11. Primary suspect pursued (2 in Smart case) relentlessly
12. Parents uploaded over 20 photos to website, Parent persistently worked to maintain a presence in local and national media
13. Tensions between parents & police

Of course there may be more as time goes on, especially if Madeleine is found alive. It just seemed to me that there were alot of similarities. Like I said before, I have a cynical side and "wonder" about the possibility of conspiracies.

[colomom]

Or it could be read like this:

We, like everyone else, await the results of the forensics from the recent searches. "We are not afraid or worried about the results"

We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why. Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand. "We were not premeditated in our actions"

An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended."Situations can get out of control and the consequences were unintended, we didn't mean to do it"

Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear. "The unintended outcome has resulted in our feelings of torment, guilt and fear, after all, we are only human"

If you have done something you regret, if you find yourself in a situation you never intended, it is not too late to do the right thing."We regret what happened, we never intended it to happen", preparation for confession (doing the right thing)

Please come forward, return Madeleine, leave her in a place of safety. At the very least, help us by letting us know what has happened to our beautiful little girl. "This is what we need to do to make it right" (especially the last sentence)

Of course, I would never assume to know what another person was thinking when this was written....this is just another way to look at it.

[colomom]

in Correio da Manha today (Aug 29):

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia.asp?id=255793&idselect=181&idCanal=181&p=0

Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=latest&action=display&thread=1182386581&page=20 post #291

Suspicions: Gerry says the twins have deep sleep
Syringe in apartment is investigated

The twins Sean and Amelie never woke up with the turmoil on the night of the crime, before and after their sister was taken from the apartment, but Gerry McCann guarantees it’s normal and says his children usually sleep without interruptions. But Judiciaria found a syringe with tranquilizers in the dresser inside the medic couple’s bedroom, a source that is connected with the investigation told CM – and that is also being taken in account by the inspectors.

The father has been showing himself rather irritated about the investigation into the disappearance of Madeleine, his 4-year old daughter who was taken from the apartment where they were spending their holidays at Praia da Luz, on May 3. He exploded as soon as journalists confronted him with the blood that was found on the walls, and tore off the microphone, leaving his wife alone in front of the cameras, in an interview for a program of Spanish channel Telecinco, which was broadcast on Saturday evening.

Gerry does not comment on the fact that he was the last person to see his daughter alive, when he visited her in the bedroom around 9 p.m. – but both he and his wife think it’s “normal” that their twin children kept sleeping on the night of the crime. “It’s very difficult for us, all this speculation, but what is certain is that our children were very tired, they’re very small and we can’t find out if they heard anything…”.

“We usually put them to sleep between 7 and 8 p.m. and they sleep all night without interruptions. It’s a routine we follow in the UK and which we’ve kept here”, the children’s father justified, thus dismissing the possibility that the twins, 2, were put asleep with the injectable tranquilizers that the inspectors found in a dresser in the parents’ bedroom.

Criticism and nervousness

At a time when the Judiciaria’s team is closing in and the investigation is advancing “increasingly in a circle”, as one of the inspectors told CM, Gerry throws critics at the PJ. “We want to reach the bottom of things and find Madeleine, but obviously there are no signs of any breakthrough – the Portuguese police does things in a very, very discrete way so people don’t know, and that is difficult for us, too”, the father says.

The doctor, who has stopped being called for weekly meetings with the PJ as long as the results of the analyses don’t arrive from England, also says that “the way the investigation is being handled is very different from that in the UK, where police likes to give information…”.

(article continues)

[colomom]

08/29/2007 1 hour 24 minutes ago (from time of post)
". . . The tension started to build after Mr Gonzalez asked the couple: "You were the last people to see Madeleine alive, is that correct?"
Mr McCann replied: "That's part of the investigation and we are not going to divulge any information about the investigation that might help the perpetrator of this crime to cover his tracks.". . ."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20070829/tuk-mccann-walks-out-of-tv-interview-6323e80_2.html

Seems to me that this is a question that has been answered by the McCanns. The last to see her alive? Not if there was an abduction. Because if there was an abduction than obviously the perp would be the last to see Madeleine "alive".

How would stating that be compromising the investigation? How would answering the question...."Obviously we were not the last to see Madeleine alive because she was kidnapped and the kidnapper would be the last to see her alive" be helping the perpertrator of this crime to cover his tracks??

I think he got angry because the interviewer was trying to "trick" him into saying yes.

[colomom]

in TVI online today:

http://www.tvi.iol.pt/informacao/noticia.php?id=847961

PJ investigates syringe with tranquilizers

The fact that the couple’s twin children never woke up on the night of May 3, before and after Maddie disappeared, is an issue

In the case of Madeleine, the PoliciA Judiciaria is investigating a syringe with tranquilizers that was found in a dresser in the child’s parents’ room. According to newspaper ‘Correio da Manha’, the issue is that the McCanns’ twin children never woke up on the night of May 3, after and before the disappearance of their sister Maddie.

The father, Gerry, guarantees it is normal that the children sleep without interruptions, dismissing the possibility that the two children were put to sleep with the injectable tranquilizers that the inspectors found in a dresser in the couple’s bedroom. Meanwhile, Robert Murat, the only arguido in the case is waiting to be cleared of the suspicions that are pending on him.

The results of the analyses on the blood samples, which the PJ says it needs to advance the interrogations, have not arrived yet from England.

[mrsmousemat]

Or it could be read like this:

We, like everyone else, await the results of the forensics from the recent searches. "We are not afraid or worried about the results"

We do not know who has taken Madeleine or why. Sometimes people do things for reasons that even they cannot understand. "We were not premeditated in our actions"

An act of madness, an accident or sudden impulse can lead to consequences that people may never have imagined or intended."Situations can get out of control and the consequences were unintended, we didn't mean to do it"

Faced with such a situation we believe any human soul will ultimately suffer torment and feelings of guilt and fear. "The unintended outcome has resulted in our feelings of torment, guilt and fear, after all, we are only human"

If you have done something you regret, if you find yourself in a situation you never intended, it is not too late to do the right thing."We regret what happened, we never intended it to happen", preparation for confession (doing the right thing)

Please come forward, return Madeleine, leave her in a place of safety. At the very least, help us by letting us know what has happened to our beautiful little girl. "This is what we need to do to make it right" (especially the last sentence)

Of course, I would never assume to know what another person was thinking when this was written....this is just another way to look at it.

The best course of anyone who is guilty is to shut up and say nothing at all - the No comment ' interview, not to put themselves at risk on TV over and over again.

They could have chosen not to speak very little ever since Madeleine went missing - and particularly on Spanish TV if they wished, so it inclines me towards their innocence.

The interview will have been scripted with their PR. Maybe with a psycholgist's or police help.

My observations are those of an ex-professional writer, so I've seen how it is done 1000 x plus. That's not to say I'm right..

[CaliKid]

All I can say is if the McCanns sedated the children and Madeleine died because of it, leaving the syringe in their bedroom was a very stupid thing to do. So stupid, I can hardly believe they'd do it.

[mrsmousemat]

Agreed - especially in the time they had to get rid of anything embarrassing before the police arrived.

If it is true, how do we know that neither of the McCann's is diabetic?

[Squishified]

Hi Cali, hi all...

I have been around, mostly lurking and checking for anything "interesting" in the press or on the many other forums and blogs. My kiddos started back to school this week and my little girl got sick on her first day (she fainted!) and I had to bring her home (that was yesterday). Today, with the full moon and a lunar eclipse, I have been very out of sorts. That is just to explain my being "away".

I have a certain cynical side to my personality and sometimes I really wonder about conspiracies and evil deeds done by powerful people. I always try to read between the lines and try to discern things that may be hidden.

I will spend some time this evening giving you my impression, but, I gotta go feed these kids!!

I will be back....I hope.
colomom,
I hope your little girl is doing okay. Poor little thing. Did she make it to school the next day?

[christine2448]

Agreed - especially in the time they had to get rid of anything embarrassing before the police arrived.

If it is true, how do we know that neither of the McCann's is diabetic?

Diabetics don't take tranquilizers, they take insulin.

[colomom]

colomom,
I hope your little girl is doing okay. Poor little thing. Did she make it to school the next day?

Thank you so much for asking after her Squishified (loooove your username :) ) and yes, she did go yesterday and had a good day, no problems.

I think it was just "jitters"...

[colomom]

The best course of anyone who is guilty is to shut up and say nothing at all - the No comment ' interview, not to put themselves at risk on TV over and over again.
Not if they are suffering from Narcissistic Personality Disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder), "such people make strong attempts to control others’ view of them and behavior towards them".


They could have chosen not to speak very little ever since Madeleine went missing - and particularly on Spanish TV if they wished, so it inclines me towards their innocence.
Don't you think that if they were guilty of a cover-up that they would have thought the same thing and therefore realize that their behavior could result in an assumtion of innocence? It's possible...


The interview will have been scripted with their PR. Maybe with a psycholgist's or police help.
Is this reference to the Spanish TV interview and GM's temper tantrum? Are you saying that is what caused his outburst? Because the interviewer strayed from the "scripted" interview?


My observations are those of an ex-professional writer, so I've seen how it is done 1000 x plus. That's not to say I'm right..Understood...

[mjak]

If a syringe with a tranqulizing substance was found in the bedrrom of the Mccaans I would say they have a lot of explaining to do. I am not put off by the fact it might seem dumb that they would leave the syringe there. It is possible that they were using syringes every night and this one was not used that one nor thought about. If the Mccaans are guilty of not only harming Maddie but staged this elaborate cover up then we are talking about a person or people with a grandiose perception of being above reprecussions. Thefore, I do not think they would give the same kind of thought other people would give to another syringe being in the home. I hope this is just a horrible rumor about the syringe but if true how absolutly horrible.

mjak

[CaliKid]

I am having a tough time getting my head around all the developments over the last couple of weeks. I am speculating that the reason the forensic results are taking so long is because preliminary tests were already completed and the lab phoned the results to the PJ who asked for further testing. Like someone on the Mirror forums said, true forensic testing isn't like the CSI television show. It takes time to distinguish between sets of prints, sort out fibers and analyze blood.

[colomom]

Agreed - especially in the time they had to get rid of anything embarrassing before the police arrived.

If it is true, how do we know that neither of the McCann's is diabetic?

Well, according to their Spokeswoman Justine McGuiness, that is not the case, at least not that requires injections. Plus the story specifically indicates the presence of tranquilizers.

From: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/29/wmaddy129.xml

"The McCanns' spokeswoman Justine McGuinness dismissed the latest claim that Portuguese police are examining a syringe and tranquillisers found in the family’s apartment.

She said: "I can categorically say the McCanns did not have syringes or sedatives with them on holiday. They do not use sedatives on their children."

[colomom]

I am having a tough time getting my head around all the developments over the last couple of weeks. I am speculating that the reason the forensic results are taking so long is because preliminary tests were already completed and the lab phoned the results to the PJ who asked for further testing. Like someone on the Mirror forums said, true forensic testing isn't like the CSI television show. It takes time to distinguish between sets of prints, sort out fibers and analyze blood.

I am leaning in this direction as well Cali. I think the PJ already has some evidence, probably forensic, but is waiting for a solid confirmation from British soil.

[Squishified]

Thank you so much for asking after her Squishified (loooove your username :) ) and yes, she did go yesterday and had a good day, no problems.

I think it was just "jitters"...
I'm glad to hear that. I used to absolutely DREAD the first day of school!!

[meowy]

I assume it's one of those sygringes that have no needle, the kind used to give medication to a cat (I have a couple of them myself).

Maybe one (or more) of the kids were on antibiotics or child's pain reliever at the time? If the kids had gotten sunburned surely they'd need something to relieve pain (I'm talking like kid's tylenol liquid.. nothing harder)

Then again, maybe it was a toy. If there's no needle on it and it's one of the other style, the little syringes do make for fun mini squirt guns. All the doctors there, it might of just been a fun toy is all. Maybe the kids had fun drinking their tea with it or something.

Just a thought, not fact of course.

[SewingDeb]

I hope you're right, meowy and the Portugese newspapers are wrong. They said syringes with sedatives in them.

[Lanie]

In reference to Gerry's tantrum, personally, this is the first time I have seen him act IMO human. I admit I haven't seen the translated video myself, but the version I did see came across to me like a man who is very frustrated. I would think the Spanish press would be well aware of what is and what is not acceptable to discuss in a Portugese investigation, and if it is true the people involved are under a gag order, I can understand his reaction.

[docwho3]

08/29/2007 1 hour 24 minutes ago (from time of post)
". . . The tension started to build after Mr Gonzalez asked the couple: "You were the last people to see Madeleine alive, is that correct?"
Mr McCann replied: "That's part of the investigation and we are not going to divulge any information about the investigation that might help the perpetrator of this crime to cover his tracks.". . ."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20070829/tuk-mccann-walks-out-of-tv-interview-6323e80_2.html


Seems to me that this is a question that has been answered by the McCanns. The last to see her alive? Not if there was an abduction. Because if there was an abduction than obviously the perp would be the last to see Madeleine "alive".

How would stating that be compromising the investigation? How would answering the question...."Obviously we were not the last to see Madeleine alive because she was kidnapped and the kidnapper would be the last to see her alive" be helping the perpertrator of this crime to cover his tracks??

I think he got angry because the interviewer was trying to "trick" him into saying yes. I was not trying to indicate any particular thing by using that quote. I chose that quote from the article at random. Actually it seems he was upset at being asked ANY questions about the case. They said that the law prohibits discussing the case and so they won't discuss it.

[CarpeDiem]

I assume it's one of those sygringes that have no needle, the kind used to give medication to a cat (I have a couple of them myself).

Maybe one (or more) of the kids were on antibiotics or child's pain reliever at the time? If the kids had gotten sunburned surely they'd need something to relieve pain (I'm talking like kid's tylenol liquid.. nothing harder)

Then again, maybe it was a toy. If there's no needle on it and it's one of the other style, the little syringes do make for fun mini squirt guns. All the doctors there, it might of just been a fun toy is all. Maybe the kids had fun drinking their tea with it or something.

Just a thought, not fact of course.

Yeah, I have a half dozen of those medicine syringes, they are for squirting the antibiotic in their mouth if they are too young or too sick. Our pharmacist usually puts one in the bag if I have to get an antibiotic for my youngest.

[christine2448]

I have seen several posters mention the no-needle type infant, etc syringes, the paper is clear that they were INJECTABLE TRANQUILIZERS.


http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...dCanal=181&p=0 (http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia.asp?id=255793&idselect=181&idCanal=181&p=0)

Copied from: (http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia.asp?id=255793&idselect=181&idCanal=181&p=0)http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com... 86581&page=20 (http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=latest&action=display&thread=1182386581&page=20) post #291
injectable tranquilizers that the inspectors found in a dresser in the parents’ bedroom.




Now I can't speak for this paper or source, but I didnt' see anywhere it being said anything but injectable tranquilizers...if someone has link saying it was a medicine dropper/syringe, please post. TIA

[mrsmousemat]

Diabetics don't take tranquilizers, they take insulin.

Sorry, I was not aware that there been a police statement saying that tranquillisers were found in syringes in the McCanns villa? Please could you point me to the information.

This changes things considerably if the poilce are saying this - and it is not just newspaper speculation. Could you inform me of the link please? Thanks

[mrsmousemat]

Well, according to their Spokeswoman Justine McGuiness, that is not the case, at least not that requires injections. Plus the story specifically indicates the presence of tranquilizers.

From: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/29/wmaddy129.xml (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/29/wmaddy129.xml)

"The McCanns' spokeswoman Justine McGuinness dismissed the latest claim that Portuguese police are examining a syringe and tranquillisers found in the family’s apartment.

She said: "I can categorically say the McCanns did not have syringes or sedatives with them on holiday. They do not use sedatives on their children."

So the Portuguese press strikes again - depending on who you believe of course.

[harleysnana]

So the Portuguese press strikes again - depending on who you believe of course.

Well... I don't belive The McCanns' spokeswoman Justine McGuinness
would be their spokeswoman for much longer if she had said.....
"Yes the McCanns had syringes or sedatives with them on holiday. And they do use sedatives on their children."
IMO I'm not surprised by what she said.;)

[mrsmousemat]

Don't you think that if they were guilty of a cover-up that they would have thought the same thing and therefore realize that their behavior could result in an assumtion of innocence? It's possible...


* Only a tiny outside chance, as too risky a strategy - and they are intelligent enough to be doctors - if not street-smart, as they left their children alone.

Is this reference to the Spanish TV interview and GM's temper tantrum? Are you saying that is what caused his outburst? Because the interviewer strayed from the "scripted" interview?

* Not entirely - they would have agreed the areas of which to stay clear in advance. His responses would have been scripted, probably with his input and agreement, to appeal to any abductor/kidnapper to return Madeleine with the minimum amount of words in the shortest space of time.

A parent who has lost his child would find it difficult to control his real feelings to any person who had taken her and so the parent would be advised to appeal directly to this person by following the script - and not waste time on venting their own feelings, as it wouldn't achieve their objective.

The McCanns don't want to appear 'wonderful' as media stars are driven to do, they just to want get their message across. The irony is that you have to learn how to appear being 'entirely natural' on TV, if you are not gifted in this way. I think that's why they come across as 'wooden' in interviews, because they are normal people and not entirely media savvy... although they may be on a steep learning curve.

If the PR is any good, she would have explained what GM was trying to do - make a direct appeal to get his child back - in advance, to the Spanish programme makers. The programme makers may have lured the McCanns on by saying that that they could say their piece without hinderance.

They may have defaulted on this agreement. TV programme makers are not exactly 100percent reliable these days... as British people will know.

After all, you have watched or read about it it haven't you - as have thousands of others. So who cares if the message was lost? Well done Spanish TV - lovely ratings.

Sadly, the McCanns, who have just lost their child and are not media stars by choice, and are instantly 'disposable' if were not be scheduled to give more than one interview. The PR should have warned them of what may happen but they probably thought it was worth a try to get their daughter back.

There are some decent reporters and TV programmes but there is so much pressure on individual reporters and programme makers to come up with good ratings/readership, that they need to provoke a response for dramatic effect.

I hope this explains what sometimes happens in the interview process. I don't know that it did in this case, but it would explain the 'upset' if it did.

[christine2448]

Sorry, I was not aware that there been a police statement saying that tranquillisers were found in syringes in the McCanns villa? Please could you point me to the information.

This changes things considerably if the poilce are saying this - and it is not just newspaper speculation. Could you inform me of the link please? Thanks

Hiya, no need to apologize :) I saw it in a previous page an reposted it a few posts ago...but here is the link again...not sure how reliable the news source is however.

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...dCanal=181&p=0 (http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia.asp?id=255793&idselect=181&idCanal=181&p=0)

Copied from: (http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia.asp?id=255793&idselect=181&idCanal=181&p=0)http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com... 86581&page=20 (http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=latest&action=display&thread=1182386581&page=20) post #291
injectable tranquilizers that the inspectors found in a dresser in the parents’ bedroom. (http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia.asp?id=255793&idselect=181&idCanal=181&p=0)

[christine2448]

I looked back and this is where the tranq/syringe stuff started:


Copied from the Mirror Board: http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8567

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...idCanal=20&p=0 (http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia.asp?id=255817&idselect=20&idCanal=20&p=0)

"Check out the image's left corner. You can read "Syringe found in the room".
There is also something below but it is not very perceptible. All I can read is Judiciaria and tranquilizers."

Please...somebody...is that what is really says??

[colomom]

Evening folks,

I was checking my "sources" this evening because tomorrow is a very special day. Tomorrow I will actually have live eyes and ears in Praia Da Luz. A very dear friend of mine will have arrived when I wake up in the morning. We have formulated some plans and my friend will be "investigating" some things that we have been discussing for the past 3 months. I am very excited.

So, here is the interesting thing...I was reading the Mirror boards and our good friends over on the Proboards 79 forum and there is talk about tomorrow being "The Day". Check this thread: http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8673 and you can read about a post that was made by a reporter that some say is very familiar with this case and has a good reputation. There is talk about some "results" on their way back? And about a couple of LE from the UK arriving. There is a post on Proboards see (http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1188280911&page=22 post #321):

The reporter mentioned is Hernâni Carvalho.

He became mostly known in Portugal because of his work during the East Timor crisis leading to idependence. He was there for the RTP (public channel) during the riots and arsons instigated by the indonesians.

During that period, he became well acquainted with some senior political officers in Portugal (namely Ana Gomes, who was the portuguese embassador to Indonesia).

and from post #322:

That reporter is now working in TVI and he's now a specialist in police investigations.
He's working in this case very hard since the begining.

While I am cautious because we have been "burned" before and having your hopes raised and then dashed can become very stressful after awhile, and lord knows I do not need any more stress in my life, this is very interesting considering the timing with my friend arriving there tomorrow.

Suffice it to say, my friend has a "gift" and I have alot of faith in their ability to intuit things that most people cannot. Course, you do not know me or my friend and we could be complete loonies as far as you know but, I wanted to tell you all about this BECAUSE....

If something really does break loose tomorrow I want you all to be ready. I want you to think about what you would like to have live eyes and ears in PDL do, if YOU could be there. Of course, it could get completely crazy and communication could become difficult, but, just in case...

So, take it with a grain of salt, a really BIG grain. I wanted to tell you all what I see happening because I feel like I owe you all that much. If nothing happens, with LE tomorrow, I promise to apologize for getting anybody's hopes up but, the fact remains, we will have access to someone in PDL and you should let me know if there is something you would like them to do FOR YOU while they are there.

Sorry for the vagueness of this post, links are sketchy and hard to nail down but, at least, I tried.

[CaliKid]

Evening folks,

I was checking my "sources" this evening because tomorrow is a very special day. Tomorrow I will actually have live eyes and ears in Praia Da Luz. A very dear friend of mine will have arrived when I wake up in the morning. We have formulated some plans and my friend will be "investigating" some things that we have been discussing for the past 3 months. I am very excited.
~snip~
Sorry for the vagueness of this post, links are sketchy and hard to nail down but, at least, I tried.

It sounds like something important is going down in Portugal. But we've been burned before, expecting things- earlier this month comes to mind when all of the officers of the PJ were supposedly told to cancel days off over a long weekend- and nothing happened. I'm really hoping the lab results have been secretly sent back to Portugal and they're ready to proceed.

[christine2448]

Evening folks,

I was checking my "sources" this evening because tomorrow is a very special day. Tomorrow I will actually have live eyes and ears in Praia Da Luz. A very dear friend of mine will have arrived when I wake up in the morning. We have formulated some plans and my friend will be "investigating" some things that we have been discussing for the past 3 months. I am very excited.



Very exciting! Awesome when we can actually 'get out there' and do some investigating on our own. Thank your friend in advance from all of us!

[CarpeDiem]

colomom, thanks for the head's up. I can't wait to hear their perspective.

[SewingDeb]

This is exciting, colomom! Please keep us updated.

[Shazza]

Waiting with abated breath Colomom, thanks for all your hard work in keeping us updated about this case. Thank your friend for us, cant wait till we hear what your friend can find out.

[CaliKid]

I am running on empty tonight, friends, and need to get some sleep. The sheer nastiness of the fighting between the "sides" in various forums (not in here, I assure you) is dragging me down. I'm so thankful WS doesn't put up with that c*@p. In any case, I hope tomorrow brings some news, one way or another.

Good night, sweet Madeleine. Wherever you are, may angels make you comfortable and bring you peace.

[mrsmousemat]

Suffice it to say, my friend has a "gift" and I have alot of faith in their ability to intuit things that most people cannot. Course, you do not know me or my friend and we could be complete loonies as far as you know but, I wanted to tell you all about this BECAUSE....

If something really does break loose tomorrow I want you all to be ready. I want you to think about what you would like to have live eyes and ears in PDL do, if YOU could be there. Of course, it could get completely crazy and communication could become difficult, but, just in case...

It would be great if your friend could video the route all around the apartment - the exits, entrances and to the Tapas Bar, so we could see for ourselves the place involved. Thanks.

[mrsmousemat]

Well... I don't belive The McCanns' spokeswoman Justine McGuinness
would be their spokeswoman for much longer if she had said.....
"Yes the McCanns had syringes or sedatives with them on holiday. And they do use sedatives on their children."
IMO I'm not surprised by what she said.;)

The PR would have given a 'no comment ' if it were true if syringes were found as the it is provable by the police as a fact.

If she contradicts the story and later the police produce the evidence then the McCanns will look very bad indeed. Therefore, if she is any good as a PR, she wouldn't risk giving this comment if it is untrue.

[angarella]

Suffice it to say, my friend has a "gift" and I have alot of faith in their ability to intuit things that most people cannot. Course, you do not know me or my friend and we could be complete loonies as far as you know but, I wanted to tell you all about this BECAUSE....

If something really does break loose tomorrow I want you all to be ready. I want you to think about what you would like to have live eyes and ears in PDL do, if YOU could be there. Of course, it could get completely crazy and communication could become difficult, but, just in case...

It would be great if your friend could video the route all around the apartment - the exits, entrances and to the Tapas Bar, so we could see for ourselves the place involved. Thanks.

Great idea!~

[mrsmousemat]

It was taped before Gerry went to Edinburgh for the media festival over the weekend. I'm not making excuses for him, but GM specifically told them that he couldn't discuss questions about the case before the interview began and when they asked two in a row, he lost his cool and stomped off, leaving Kate to carry on alone. There was some sort of panel involved who discussed the "leaving kids alone" viewpoint and blamed Madeleine's fate on the McCanns' neglect.

I do wish KM would stop carrying that stuffed toy around with her. Cuddle Cat has served its purpose.

I'm just amazed that such a 'well respected reporter' would not have done any background research and not know that the McCanns could not answer questions.

The Cuddle Cat is Mrs McCann's symbol to Madeleine if she is watching a TV set, that she is thinking about her.

If Madeleine has access to a TV it is likely to be in a language that she cannot understand but she would see her mother and the Cuddle Cat.

[Reannan]

Thanks for sharing your friend with us Colomom! I would like for your friend to look at the route from the apartment to Murat's house. I am especially interested if it would have been possible for someone to take Madeleine up onto the roof and somehow make it over to his house by the way of roof tops. I recall early on in the investigation that the Portugese LE were using dogs "on roof tops", and that has been nagging at me ever since. Thanks!

[mjak]

The PR would have given a 'no comment ' if it were true if syringes were found as the it is provable by the police as a fact.

If she contradicts the story and later the police produce the evidence then the McCanns will look very bad indeed. Therefore, if she is any good as a PR, she wouldn't risk giving this comment if it is untrue.


This of course assumes her clients are being truthfully with her.

mjak

[mjak]

I'm just amazed that such a 'well respected reporter' would not have done any background research and not know that the McCanns could not answer questions.

The Cuddle Cat is Mrs McCann's symbol to Madeleine if she is watching a TV set, that she is thinking about her.

If Madeleine has access to a TV it is likely to be in a language that she cannot understand but she would see her mother and the Cuddle Cat.

I completely understand Mrs McCann's desire to carry Cuddlecat. What I do not understand is if it is such a valuable piece of evidence as claimed. the proof a kidnapper was in the room why is it not in police custody in an evidence bag?

mjak

[mrsmousemat]

[quote=mjak;1651929]This of course assumes her clients are being truthfully with her.

mjak[/quote

Correct - and clients, being human beings rarely 100 percent truthful.

But she still wouldn't risk her professional reputation unless she had done some research with the police if she is any good, as it would be a really stupid thing to get caught on.

[mrsmousemat]

I completely understand Mrs McCann's desire to carry Cuddlecat. What I do not understand is if it is such a valuable piece of evidence as claimed. the proof a kidnapper was in the room why is it not in police custody in an evidence bag?

mjak

Heaven knows - the police have to answer that one.. ... You know, the same police that missed blood spots in the room. I could go on but it makes my teeth ache at the thought of the missed opportunities for evidence.

[jacobean]

Just wanted to say a quick "excellent" to colomom, im taking your advice not to get hopes up, but cant help feeling quite wide eyed and excited about your friend and what they might be able to find out for us. Thankyou also to your friend for making the journey, every little helps and well i just think you rock. :blowkiss:

Its just a thought, but having seen posts about these cliffs with lots of caves etc, i wonder if your friend may be able to visit this area and just see if they pick up anything. I thought this was an interesting point on the last thread and didnt see any posts saying it had been properly checked out.

Excellent idea on the hotel info MrsMouseMat, i think it would be great to get a view of the exits etc and put it all together in context.

Calikid, i agree totally, ive also spent alot of time on some of the other forums and some of it really starts to wear on you. I hope you get some good rest today and that we get some news tomorrow.

[mrsmousemat]

Excellent idea on the hotel info MrsMouseMat, i think it would be great to get a view of the exits etc and put it all together in context.


Thanks - It maybe that the PD will not allow it, but I've been trying to get Sky TV to cover the abduction (?) in a special programme by writing to their website, pointing out that they are a bit slow off the mark, given the worldwide interest.

A programme would not only help Websleuths but may jog someone's memory of the night in question, who was staying at the resort.

So if the friend currently at the resort cannot make a video, perhaps Websleuthers could also write to Sky asking them for a programme supporting the idea. Thanks.

[mrsmousemat]

Today's UK Times carries an article by British parenting expert Dr Tanya Byron. In it she deals with how to deal with children's tantrums.
She says that if the child doesn't stop a tantrum, to tell them that they will lose their favourite toy then to put it on a high shelf, where they can see it, to show the child the consequence of their behaviour. They get it back when they calm down.
Personally, I always tried distraction as a tantrum control method, so I've never come across this before, but it does show that this method is a current way controlling a child in the UK. It maybe worldwide - I don't know.

[comfort80]

Today's UK Times carries an article by British parenting expert Dr Tanya Byron. In it she deals with how to deal with children's tantrums.
She says that if the child doesn't stop a tantrum, to tell them that they will lose their favourite toy then to put it on a high shelf, where they can see it, to show the child the consequence of their behaviour. They get it back when they calm down.
Personally, I always tried distraction as a tantrum control method, so I've never come across this before, but it does show that this method is a current way controlling a child in the UK. It maybe worldwide - I don't know.


r u thinking that maybe mom or dad put cuddlecat up on the shelf and either forgot about it, or decided to change the story about how it got up there?

[CaliKid]

I don't even know what the big deal is with Cuddle Cat. Early news articles (which have since disappeared, to be replaced by newer reports) claimed the McCanns said Cuddle Cat was an upcoming birthday gift for Madeleine, so she wasn't sleeping with it. Check out the following link from May 6:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t.....752277.ece

"At 9.30pm Gerry McCann checked his children and they were sound asleep, with Madeleine lying with her comfort blanket. Thirty minutes later his wife returned and found Madeleine gone and the shutter of the rear window open."

The article says nothing about Cuddle Cat. It says she slept with a comfort blanket. Usually kids have one favorite toy or blankie to hold on to at night, not two.

[colomom]

Well pretty quiet in PDL it seems, another false dawn....and I am waiting patiently for my friend to call or e-mail me....http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/ad/whistling.gif

In the meantime.....

Here are some really good pictures of PDL: http://www.traveluzion.com/photos/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=0 My friend really wants to go to what may be the "monument" referred to by GM in his blog where they jog to (picture# 14). There are some good photos of the cliffs where my friend will visit as well (I'll let you know Jacobean).

Mrsmousemat, I will pass on the request for video but I believe I was told only still photos would be taken by my friend, don't know for sure. In the meantime here are some good photos of the Ocean Club and the area:

Go here: http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx

Search for Praia Da Luz (check the box for Editorial Images) then go to page 2.

In the second row there are 4 images. The first is a picture showing the pool, with the Tapas bar being in the far, lower right corner. The McCanns apartment would be directly under the "I" in images (the Getty Images disclaimer that is superimposed on the photo). Casa Lilliana (Robert Murat's house is at the very top, slightly left of center of the photo. This would show any rooftop route which I don't see as possible as the apartments and houses are separated. The 2nd and 3rd pictures are of Casa Lilliana (for reference with the first). You can see that it is isolated from any other structures. Finally, the 4th picture is of the Ocean Club complex which shows the Tapas Bar (left center, directly left of "getty") and the route to the McCanns apartment which is far, right, center.

There are some very good pictures of the resort, which will give you a fairly good idea of the layout, here: http://www.travelblog.net/crash/Europe/Portugal/Algarve/blog-184126.html

Also here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=474428&in_page_id=1811

Here is a route marked out and measured (for you Reannan): http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/392/longwaycz6.jpg

Here are a couple of Google Earth maps for reference:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/Pins.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/OCtoCL.jpg

This is the very first place my friend will visit:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/What.jpg

[Ang50]

r u thinking that maybe mom or dad put cuddlecat up on the shelf and either forgot about it, or decided to change the story about how it got up there?

I think the theory might be that Madeleine was having a tantrum and they put Cuddle Cat up. Then - maybe the tantrum was so bad that the parents lost their temper or drugged her to get her to sleep.

Mrs MM - not trying to speak for you - but this is what I thought from your post.

As a parent of a child Madeleine's age, I would not do this because it would escalate a tantrum in my child. I only put things up high when kids are fighting over them.

[mrsmousemat]

I just put it on Websleuths as information since there had been a great deal of discussion about the Cuddle Cat earlier, especially the siting of it in a high place in the room.

The only point I would add as if it weren't a special toy for Madeleine - and that she hadn't yet received it, why is Mrs M so keen on it? Perhaps she had promised it to Madeleine?

If it were her favourite toy - either one of the parents might have put it up high, and left it there. But that doesn't equate with her finishing a tantrum if the parent left the room before giving it to her back.

Or it was put up by the abductor, which doesn't make sense.

So totally confused..But perhaps it wasn't put up high at all and maybe false information again.

[mrsmousemat]

Mrsmousemat, I will pass on the request for video but I believe I was told only still photos would be taken by my friend, don't know for sure.

Thanks Colomom - I'm amazed at all the research that you do. It's a great help.

I'm sure someone will attempt something like a video soon so yet more patience required I'm afraid.

[Texana]

I just can't figure out how Cuddle Cat's position could in any way signify immediately to Kate that Madeleine had been abducted--again because two other adults had been to check on Maddie, (although one did not actually go in, it's not clear to me if Kate knew that) either one could have logically moved the toy.

It just seems to me that the first thought would have been that perhaps Gerry or Matthew moved the toy, or if it was in a more accessible place, that Maddie herself put it there--after all, she had awoken the night before, according to Mrs. Fenn.

And why would an abductor take the time to move the toy?

Given the position of the apartment and the apparent window of time, I don't disbelieve an abductor took Maddie. But I'm still stumped as to why that would be Kate's first and immediate assumption.

It reportedly was washed because it was dirty and covered in suntan oil, so it was perhaps a new favorite toy, but not the "comfort blanket/lovey" kind of bedtime toy or object.

[mrsmousemat]

I don't even know what the big deal is with
"At 9.30pm Gerry McCann checked his children and they were sound asleep, with Madeleine lying with her comfort blanket. Thirty minutes later his wife returned and found Madeleine gone and the shutter of the rear window open."

TCuddle Cat. Early news articles (which have since disappeared, to be replaced by newer reports) claimed the McCanns said Cuddle Cat was an upcoming birthday gift for Madeleine, so she wasn't sleeping with it. Check out the following link from May 6:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t.....752277.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/t.....752277.ece)
he article says nothing about Cuddle Cat. It says she slept with a comfort blanket. Usually kids have one favorite toy or blankie to hold on to at night, not two.

Thanks - link inoperable but happy to know what it said.

When my children were small they were nearly always surrounded by teddybears, dolls, cats, dogs, furry sharks (yes, really) , giraffes, tigers etc, plus a blanket (took me ages to make the beds), so I may be out of step in knowing that most children prefer a single toy.

If she did have one blanket, I wonder if this is the blanket in which she was wrapped, as it was likely to be small and would therefore allow Jane Tanner to see her pyjamas?

[CarpeDiem]

I just put it on Websleuths as information since there had been a great deal of discussion about the Cuddle Cat earlier, especially the siting of it in a high place in the room.

The only point I would add as if it weren't a special toy for Madeleine - and that she hadn't yet received it, why is Mrs M so keen on it? Perhaps she had promised it to Madeleine?

If it were her favourite toy - either one of the parents might have put it up high, and left it there. But that doesn't equate with her finishing a tantrum if the parent left the room before giving it to her back.

Or it was put up by the abductor, which doesn't make sense.

So totally confused..But perhaps it wasn't put up high at all and maybe false information again.

It would mean the most if she carried it everywhere, but I've never seen it with Maddie in a photograph, you can see my kid's favorite object in a lot of our pictures. I just think if she only slept with it, it shows she didn't go to sleep that night or was completely out of it when she was taken. But the perp needed only leave it in the bed, that was very deliberate to lift it to the shelf in what had to be a brief amount of time. It must be a sticking point with the police in the interviews too. And, if Kate was so sure of an abduction so soon, why didn't she recognize how significant insisting on tests was or that Cuddle Cat be looked at in some fashion.

She is a doctor and quite educated. She knows things can be done to get answers even more than the average person. If she was afraid they/Maddie would never get cuddle cat back, they had put a stuffed toy's importance ahead of their child's life. Weird.

[colomom]

This was posted in the Mirror forum but since it was on television there is no "link", thought it was interesting so I just wanted to share. Take it for what it is worth....

From: http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=8815

"I have just heard the daily comments of MOITA FLORES on the channel 3 daily programme"FATIMA".

He said:

- There is no reason to believe that the tests that are being carried out in Birmingham have moved to another lab or country. First because there would have to be an authorisation from the Ministery of Public Affairs (who ultimately rules this investigation - above the police) to change the place where the tests are being carried out. Also the samples are not going from one lab to another without the police being informed which does not seem to have happened.

Therefore MOITA FLORES who has very good and trustful connections inside the police DID NOT GIVE CREDIT to today's news on "24 Horas" newspaper. He just said the samples should never have been sent to the UK because of the high influences and connections the McCanns have there, of which the Police were already aware before sending the samples to be tested in Birmingham.

He also made his comments on 28th August Gerry's blog:
He said the first part indeed sounded like a confession, a confession of guilt for leaving their young children alone to go to dinner in the restaurant.
He said no one would ever appeal to an abductor saying the abduction could be an accident or impulse. He found the first part of the blog extremely strange and intriguing.

He also said it is not normal for any parent around the world to believe 7 (seven) children who were left sleeping in their apartments, for their parents to go and have dinner at the Tapas restaurant, to FALL ASLEEP ALL AT THE SAME TIME just as their parents intended. Also no child sleeps EVERYDAY from 8 oclock till day rise without ever waking up. There is always something that may eventually happen to interrupt their sleep. Every parent know that well.

About yesterday's news on the finding of a SYRINGE with tranquilisers on/in a bedside table of the McCanns apartment, MOITA FLORES SAID HE WOULD BY NO MEANS COMMENT ON THIS SUBJECT for respect to his former police colleagues and investigation. He said he was not bound by the secret of justice but he just would make NO comments on that. "

[docwho3]

08/31/2007 time 7 minutes ago (before this post)
"The parents of missing Madeleine McCann are to launch a libel action against a Portuguese newspaper which said police believe they killed their daughter.

The legal documents, against the Tal & Qual paper, will be sent to a court in Oporto, in the north of Portugal. . ."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20070831/tuk-madeleine-s-parents-to-sue-paper-6323e80_2.html

[Shazza]

08/31/2007 time 7 minutes ago (before this post)
"The parents of missing Madeleine McCann are to launch a libel action against a Portuguese newspaper which said police believe they killed their daughter.

The legal documents, against the Tal & Qual paper, will be sent to a court in Oporto, in the north of Portugal. . ."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20070831/tuk-madeleine-s-parents-to-sue-paper-6323e80_2.html
I think the timing of the McCanns launching a libel action against a Portugese paper couldnt come at a worse time, there daughter is missing, this should be their main and only focus, finding their daughter. If and when this case is solved then do whatever has to be done. IMO this is just another sign of the McCanns selfish and outrageous actions.

[mrsmousemat]

It would mean the most if she carried it everywhere, but I've never seen it with Maddie in a photograph, you can see my kid's favorite object in a lot of our pictures. I just think if she only slept with it, it shows she didn't go to sleep that night or was completely out of it when she was taken. But the perp needed only leave it in the bed, that was very deliberate to lift it to the shelf in what had to be a brief amount of time. It must be a sticking point with the police in the interviews too. And, if Kate was so sure of an abduction so soon, why didn't she recognize how significant insisting on tests was or that Cuddle Cat be looked at in some fashion.

She is a doctor and quite educated. She knows things can be done to get answers even more than the average person. If she was afraid they/Maddie would never get cuddle cat back, they had put a stuffed toy's importance ahead of their child's life. Weird.

Having mulled this over and looked at the subsequent information that Calikid has given, I wonder if the CuddleCat was a promised birthday present that had to be kept out of the way on the top of the wardrobe until Madeleine's birthday?

Thi