Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 13

[WindChime]

Continue on.

Part 12 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52740

Part 11 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52538

Part 10 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52377


Part 09 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52129

Part 08 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51774

Part 07 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51218

Madeleine http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51205

Part 06 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50759

Part 05 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50571

Part 04 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50250

Part 03 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49855

Part 02 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49652

Part 01 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=49339

[WindChime]

Today, 03:31 AM
petra
Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,885

Breaking News

Madeleine's Mum 'Is A Suspect'

Updated: 08:19, Friday September 07, 2007
Kate McCann will be formally declared a suspect in the disappearance of her daughter Madeleine, a family friend has said.

More follows...

SKYNEWS
http://news.sky.com/skynews/home




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#502 Today, 03:36 AM
Tristan
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I've been sick all week, and haven't read much.

Can someone tell me what led to the McCann's becoming suspects?

Thanks very much.
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#503 Today, 03:38 AM
petra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petra
mms://live2.wm.skynews.servecast.net/skynews_wmlz_audio

Audio to sky interviewer Martin in PDL discussing this.

Live feed to skynews TV audio.


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#504 Today, 03:43 AM
petra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristan
I've been sick all week, and haven't read much.

Can someone tell me what led to the McCann's becoming suspects?

Thanks very much.

Hi Tristan--Hope you are feeling better.

Some if not most, perhaps all of the DNA results have been received by PLE.
This was early evening on Wed. Kate interviewed yesterday for 11 hrs by PLE.

Detectives want to ask her 22 questions related to the case and do not feel comfortable asking without changing her status to suspect. Kate is expected back inabout one hour where her status is expected to change from witness to suspect.

Gerry still witness.

Hope this make sense.


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#505 Today, 03:47 AM
Tristan
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Thanks so much, petra. (thanks for your kind thoughts, as well.) :-)
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#506 Today, 03:49 AM
petra
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You are welcome. If you can, you should listen to that link I posted for you -skynews audio.
You can just lay there and listen to every little bit.

God bedering!

LOL--just remembered my english. Hope you get well soon.


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#507 Today, 03:51 AM
Shazza
Lives well, loves much and laughs often. Join Date: Jan 2007
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I can believe this, many posters here have thought from the very start that the parents should be suspects and then would have been able to ask the questions that they can only ask a suspect and this would have all been over a long time ago.

I hate to say I told you so, but I did suspect the parents from the beginning, but in saying this the case is not closed and investigations are still in progress, so until we hear more news it is not absolutely positive that they are responsible until they are charged with the disappearance of Madelaine even though they are guilty of child endangerment.

To find out what has really happened to Madelaine if the parents were involved is so sickening to me, it was their little girl, I just am unable to comprehend these parents justifications if they are charged.

Wherever you are Madelaine, I will never forget you, you have touched the hearts of many. God bless Madelaine McCann.
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#508 Today, 03:55 AM
AutumnBorn
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The friend was right, but then the mom was told she was going to be named a suspect during her questioning. Read it here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6982969.stm

So much for the couple's plans to sue the newspaper that printed the story that the police suspect the parents. And the fact that they lied about why they stayed in Portugal. The police not letting them leave? Sounds like they were suspects from day one.
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#509 Today, 03:59 AM
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This is no suprise, my heart bleeds for Madelaine, that poor poor child.
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#510 Today, 03:59 AM
petra
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Yes indeed Shazza.

All in good time. As the Iberian Peninsula goes.

Thinking of little Madeleine too. It is all beyond sad.


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#511 Today, 04:02 AM
Elphaba
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My heart dropped when I read that... as much as I have felt suspicious about her parents, I also held onto hope that they weren't involved. I still do, but things aren't looking good for them. And jeez... if it is found to be them... they really had nerve in setting up their campaign to find her in the way of raising megas amount of money. Talking about scamming the world... wow...

BUT... holding onto hope that they aren't involved... what ever little hope is left. *sighs* Poor Madeleine...


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#512 Today, 04:02 AM
Shazza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petra
Yes indeed Shazza.

All in good time. As the Iberian Peninsula goes.

Thinking of little Madeleine too. It is all beyond sad.

Petra, thankyou for your great sleuthing, this has blown me away, to say what I really think would get me into trouble, I have to bite my tongue, but whomever is charged with this despicable crime, I hope they go to hell.
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#513 Today, 04:08 AM
petra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shazza
Petra, thankyou for your great sleuthing, this has blown me away, to say what I really think would get me into trouble, I have to bite my tongue, but whomever is charged with this despicable crime, I hope they go to hell.


I am right there with you.

What a bloody mess this has been from day one.

And a little girl never got to celebrate her 4th birthday by eating cake and ice cream with friends or start her first day of school.


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#514 Today, 04:10 AM
petra
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elphaba
My heart dropped when I read that... as much as I have felt suspicious about her parents, I also held onto hope that they weren't involved. I still do, but things aren't looking good for them. And jeez... if it is found to be them... they really had nerve in setting up their campaign to find her in the way of raising megas amount of money. Talking about scamming the world... wow...

BUT... holding onto hope that they aren't involved... what ever little hope is left. *sighs* Poor Madeleine...

Mine too.
Will drop even further when/if there are actually charges pressed--and as the truth unfolds if ever.


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#515 Today, 04:15 AM
Shazza
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I too have lit a candle for Madelaine.
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#516 Today, 04:20 AM
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Another article that has been published here in Australia.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=294069

Read the third last paragraph, I have not read or heard anything about this. The Labratory and P LE deny that they said the blood in the apartment which was printed in the Daily news, was not the blood of Madelaine.
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#517 Today, 04:27 AM
petra
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http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/ur...cle1979777.ece

Also on front page of Norwegian newspaper today.
(.........says same thing but in Norwegian...first article to make front page of the paper regarding this case yet)


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#518 Today, 04:33 AM
petra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shazza
Another article that has been published here in Australia.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=294069

Read the third last paragraph, I have not read or heard anything about this. The Labratory and P LE deny that they said the blood in the apartment which was printed in the Daily news, was not the blood of Madelaine.

Portuguese investigators and the laboratory examining the samples denied a report last month in the British daily, The Times, that the blood found was not that of the missing child


hhmmmm.................


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#519 Today, 04:43 AM
L L & S
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Fox News

VIANA DO CASTELO, Portugal — The mother of a British girl who disappeared four months ago in southern Portugal is to be named a formal suspect in the case Friday, a family spokesman said, a shocking twist to a case that has gripped much of Europe.
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[WindChime]

Today, 04:52 AM
mjak
Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005
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I am officially sick to my stomach. I so so so did not want to believe the parents were involved. I am the one with the "stupid" team humanity line on the bottom of my signiture who kept prefacing everything wtih I can't say thise parents are guilty just no longer able to say I think they are innocent. Just saying that made me feel like a louse of a person but a week ago I declared that after concluding the timeline for that night and restraunt activities were rediculous. All the other weired things that were suspicious to me I was able to acknolwedge and file but the timeline they were selling seemed moronic to me. So now If these parents are responsible all I feel is sick deep down in my gut. I feel no humanity, the compassion of yesteray is gone and all honestly for once in my life I don't even feel guilty for feeling terrible thoughts about another human being. Please at least if they are guilty confess and do the right thing. Bring peace to Maddie. So disgusted here.

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#522 Today, 05:04 AM
Shazza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjak
I am officially sick to my stomach. I so so so did not want to believe the parents were involved. I am the one with the "stupid" team humanity line on the bottom of my signiture who kept prefacing everything wtih I can't say thise parents are guilty just no longer able to say I think they are innocent. Just saying that made me feel like a louse of a person but a week ago I declared that after concluding the timeline for that night and restraunt activities were rediculous. All the other weired things that were suspicious to me I was able to acknolwedge and file but the timeline they were selling seemed moronic to me. So now If these parents are responsible all I feel is sick deep down in my gut. I feel no humanity, the compassion of yesteray is gone and all honestly for once in my life I don't even feel guilty for feeling terrible thoughts about another human being. Please at least if they are guilty confess and do the right thing. Bring peace to Maddie. So disgusted here.

mjak

I too feel the disgust, anger, frustration, the lies, it has absolutely rocked my whole being, when I first heard about all this I had to take two xanax, to calm down. It feels like I have lost one of my own.
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#523 Today, 05:14 AM
Tricia
Administrator Join Date: Sep 2003
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This has really thrown me for a loop.

I don't follow Madeleine's case like I do others. From looking afar it seemed her parents were caring and cooperative.

Can anyone point me to the time-line that some are saying doesn't make sense?

Is there a post or a thread somewhere that spells it out for those of us who don't know the details?

Remember this "Official Suspect" thing could change AGAIN. That is what is frustrating about this case and so many others.

Tricia
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I am unaware of anyone who's profited from exploiting the Ramsey murder over a longer period of time, with a greater disregard for the principles of accuracy and fairness, than the production team of Mills and Tracey.They truly do inhabit a different moral universe from real journalists. It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
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#524 Today, 05:14 AM
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I'm going to close this thread and start a new one.
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#525 Today, 05:18 AM
Tricia
Administrator Join Date: Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinkhammer
Look at the body language on Kate in that photo. Her hand reaches up and grasps her neck, as if she feels the noose tightening, so to speak.

Patsy Ramsey, JonBenet's mother, did this exact thing many times.

Look at RiverRat's avatar. That is the best example.

The reason I bring this up is many people pointed to the Patsy's constant "neck grabbing" as a sign of her wanting to confess. Could this be the same in Madeleine's case? Is her mother silently confessing?
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I am unaware of anyone who's profited from exploiting the Ramsey murder over a longer period of time, with a greater disregard for the principles of accuracy and fairness, than the production team of Mills and Tracey.They truly do inhabit a different moral universe from real journalists. It's the difference between journalism and propaganda.
Alan Prendergast,reporter for Westword

All posts are my constitutionally protected opinion.

[Shazza]

Tricia there is a timeline in thread No 11, Post 1.

[WindChime]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to be rude I was just doing a little house cleaning and with this new information being released I just wanted you all to have a clean room. :-)

[Mygirlsadie]

I am totally 100% shocked that the parents well the mother is now considered a suspect. Not ONE time did that thought EVER cross my mind...I don't know why it just didnt. I don't even know what to think now...

[petra]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to be rude I was just doing a little house cleaning and with this new information being released I just wanted you all to have a clean room. :-)

Thanks for the new space WindChime.:blowkiss:

[petra]

Kate has entered police station-----lots of crowds outside.

[petra]

Big issue is evidence found in the car they rented 5 weeks after 3May.
Also in cupboard/closet of new residence they moved to after 3 May. (the second place they stayed in)

[petra]

As a witness, Kate must answer all questions or she can be charged.
As a suspect, she does not have to answer questions and needs a lawyer.
If named suspect, appear before judge within 48 hrs of being declared one. Can leave PT, but must inform judge where they are and be available at all times.

[Shazza]

I'm sorry I didn't mean to be rude I was just doing a little house cleaning and with this new information being released I just wanted you all to have a clean room. :-)

No worries WindChime, with whats going on at the moment, it wont be too long and I think you will be doing more house cleaning.

You can come do my house cleaning any time.:p

[petra]

Info posted from skynews audio...............going on right now.

[petra]

No worries WindChime, with whats going on at the moment, it wont be too long and I think you will be doing more house cleaning.

You can come do my house cleaning any time.:p

:dance::dance::clap::laugh:

[Shazza]

As a witness, Kate must answer all questions or she can be charged.
As a suspect, she does not have to answer questions and needs a lawyer.
If named suspect, appear before judge within 48 hrs of being declared one. Can leave PT, but must inform judge where they are and be available at all times.
There must be some damning information the P LE have to change the status of Kate McCann to suspect, and I think the same will happen to Gerry McCann after his interview.

Wonder if they will be able to release the results of the tests soon.

[petra]

There must be some damning information the P LE have to change the status of Kate McCann to suspect, and I think the same will happen to Gerry McCann after his interview.

Wonder if they will be able to release the results of the tests soon.

Sounds like it is all the forensics.
PLE, I am hearing, does not have to say anything--perhaps give short presser if Kate is named suspect--but not required.

[petra]

mms://live2.wm.skynews.servecast.net/skynews_wmlz_audio

LINK to live sky audio for your listening pleasure :cool::cool:

( I honestly believe we wsleuthers could do a much better job reporting!!!)

[Edwards20]

There must be some damning information the P LE have to change the status of Kate McCann to suspect I suppose anything is possible. I do not have an opinion on either of the parents, as I have not followed this case as closely as others.

I did read in the FOX story that there are 22 questions LE wants to ask the mother. According to a family spokesperson they cannot ask these 22 specific questions to someone that is not a suspect.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,296018,00.html
Hughes, the family spokesman, said the police have 22 questions that they want to ask Kate McCann, which require her to be made a formal suspect. Under Portuguese law, the legal move grants certain protections to the suspect, but allows police more latitude in questioning.

Anyone else catch this or know anything about the Portugese law ?

[Dark Knight]

Even though I never posted about it, this case had my hinky meter going from the get-go. The parent's story just didn't ever make sense. We've talked about it at work and at home and things just didn't ever seem right. I still pray for justice and peace for Madeleine. A lot of people who donated huge amounts of money for the reward and also their time are going to be extremely angry if her mom turns out to be involved in her disappearance, as they should be.

[aussie_mum]

Phew! This morning my time... around 12 hours ago I got up to the news that KM was being interviewed. I onlyhad about 10 minutes before I had to leave for work, so I quickly came in here but there was so much to read since the last time I came in... I have just read about 15 pages of of the previous thread and just when I think I am near the end I realise there is a new one!

I can't believe that it has all come to a head like this. I mean it is one thing to believe it... but another to have LE believe it too... kwim? Seems perhaps that LE have done a great job? But perhaps until it is all over we won't know. Unfortunately we are all human even LE so I can believe little mistakes perhaps. It must have been hard for them with practically half the world breathing down their necks.

I wonder how long till we find out some actual info... what LE believe happened...

I really am curious to find out what they did with her little body.

[petra]

I suppose anything is possible. I do not have an opinion on either of the parents, as I have not followed this case as closely as others.

I did read in the FOX story that there are 22 questions LE wants to ask the mother. According to a family spokesperson they cannot ask these 22 specific questions to someone that is not a suspect.



Anyone else catch this or know anything about the Portugese law ?

Morning Edwards--

As I understand it, they can ask anything when a person is a 'witness' and that person is required to answer honestly,BUT.....evidence or statements collected when someone is a witness CANNOT be used in court against them.

As a suspect you have a right to NOT answer questions, must have an attorney and anything said can and will be used against you.

[Shazza]

I suppose anything is possible. I do not have an opinion on either of the parents, as I have not followed this case as closely as others.

I did read in the FOX story that there are 22 questions LE wants to ask the mother. According to a family spokesperson they cannot ask these 22 specific questions to someone that is not a suspect.



Anyone else catch this or know anything about the Portugese law ?
We did know that one Edwards20, and there are other laws that have been posted, but I cannot remember where. All hell is going to break loose soon.

[Trino]

It appears that Gerry could very well be named a suspect. However, it seems that neither parents will be jailed.

What's the next step if they are named suspects? What will it take for them to be arrested? Should they still be caring for the twins if they are suspects in their daughter's murder? Can they leave Portugal?

[Shazza]

It appears that Gerry could very well be named a suspect. However, it seems that neither parents will be jailed.

What's the next step if they are named suspects? What will it take for them to be arrested? Should they still be caring for the twins if they are suspects in their daughter's murder? Can they leave Portugal?

Time will tell Trino.

If they are named suspects I think they can leave Portugal but have to let the P LE know and have to be available on request from the P LE. I think the twins should be put with other family members until this is over.

[CarpeDiem]

All hell is going to break loose soon.

Aint that the truth. It might have broke loose yesterday, every news station covered Maddie last night, she's the lead on CNN, even at their website. My little local news covered Maddie last night which was a first. Gerry's going to be really busy now suing everyone.

[Edwards20]

Thanks.

Just heard on the Today Show teaser that the father has now been named a supsect as well.

I think I should read up on past postings.

[calus_3]

Here's an interesting thought.....

The article quoted above says they found forensic evidence (previously linked that the cadaver dog alerted on the car) in the trunk of the car. Yet they didn't have that car when Madeleine went missing. That means that if the forensics and the dog are to be believed, they moved the body and probably buried her somewhere. Sad.

Cal

[Shazza]

Aint that the truth. It might have broke loose yesterday, every news station covered Maddie last night, she's the lead on CNN, even at their website. My little local news covered Maddie last night which was a first. Gerry's going to be really busy now suing everyone.
Hi CarpeDiem, we are getting a lot more news about the McCanns than normal too, Gerry will become a suspect too. They are going to have to pull a rabbit out of a hat to explain the chit they are in now. I dont understand who they can sue, if the evidence proves they were involved they havent got a leg to stand on.

[Trino]

If I recall correctly, prior to Kate's interrogation, the McCann's were headed for England. Assuming they still will go, can you imagine the media circus surrounding their arrival and subsequent daily lives? And, it's not going to be any better if they stay in Portugal. Maybe they will need to stop their daily jogging, jaunting around, and meeting with celebrities.

IMO the McCann's have been very calloused throughout the ordeal and have not reacted as most parents of a missing child would react. I cannot see either of them admitting guilt. If they harmed their daughter, we can only hope there is enough evidence to hang them.

[Edwards20]

The parent's story just didn't ever make sense. Anything in particular just not set well with you ?


The article quoted above says they found forensic evidence (previously linked that the cadaver dog alerted on the car) in the trunk of the car. Cal, which article ? I would like to read more on this.

[JanetElaine]

Here's one from CNN, updated 3 minutes ago, where it says that they also expect Gerry to be named a suspect:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/09/07/madeleine.mccann/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[Jdee]

Time will tell Trino.

If they are named suspects I think they can leave Portugal but have to let the P LE know and have to be available on request from the P LE. I think the twins should be put with other family members until this is over.

I thought when Murat was named a suspect he couldn't leave as one of the reasons he was so upset was he couldn't go and see his daughter in England.
I think the McCann's are stuck now...

[Jdee]

Just hit my local channel news!

[Pocono Sleuther]

I nearly passed out when I turned the news on at 5:50 am. Now I can't stop watching it and wondering what precisely the police have.
Kate was questioned for 11 hrs yesterday so something in her story along with the forensics they have must have been questionable. Bernie Kerik was on FOX this morning and said they must have something dramatic to have announced her as a suspect to the media.

What are your theories? What about the parents story makes your hinky meter go up? I have no solid theory or idea! LOL

PS

[Shazza]

Here's one from CNN, updated 3 minutes ago, where it says that they also expect Gerry to be named a suspect:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/09/07/madeleine.mccann/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

It states in the above link that if the parents are regarded as suspects they have the right to remain silent and have legal representation, and that some witnesses ask to be named suspects so they have the above options.

If the McCanns claim they have nothing to do with Madelaines disappearance and have asked to be named as suspects, if they have nothing to hide then why would they ask to be suspects so they wouldnt have to answer questions and have legal representation.

IMO I dont think they asked to be suspects, I think the DNA tests have shown that the McCanns were involved in some way.

[calus_3]

Anything in particular just not set well with you ?

Cal, which article ? I would like to read more on this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=477801&in_page_id=1811

This is one that alludes to the 'boot' which is a whacky english word for trunk, I think? :D

If they killed her that night and disposed of her that night permanently, there would be nothing for the dogs to smell. Bodies don't start smelling like cadavers for a few hours after death.

I think that Madeleine probably interrupted their fun (sex, a run, dinner) and someone struck her and killed her. I think they took her somewhere safe for the night to get her out of the apartment and set their alibi. I think they went back later and permanently buried her....hence the smell of a body on the key, Kate's clothes, and in the trunk.

Sad sad sad.

Cal

[sherri79]

I nearly passed out when I turned the news on at 5:50 am. Now I can't stop watching it and wondering what precisely the police have.
Kate was questioned for 11 hrs yesterday so something in her story along with the forensics they have must have been questionable. Bernie Kerik was on FOX this morning and said they must have something dramatic to have announced her as a suspect to the media.

What are your theories? What about the parents story makes your hinky meter go up? I have no solid theory or idea! LOL

PSi wonder why they spent so many hours talking to just mom. do they have something that leads them to suspect her more than gary? did they spend 11 hours with her alone because they think she is more likely to crack and confess? did they plan to name them suspects before they spoke to her or was that not set in stone til they got whatever answers she gave during that 11 hours? i really wish they would interview someone that is a expert in the law there. what type of question could they not ask? in 11 hours they must of asked a hell of alot of questions. what are the magic 22 that are off limits til today?

[Kezlyn]

Kate McCann has been made an "arguido", people. Educate yourself on the word.

I can't believe how many WS'ers are STILL judging this case according to US legal procedure. Portuguese law is different.

sherri79: My guess is the 22 questions are ones that they do not want to ask her without legal representation present. As an arguido she is required by law to have one present. In fact, a lot of witnesses in cases in Portugal actually voluntarily have themselves declared arguidos so that they can get access to legal representation.

[jacobean]

It states in the above link that if the parents are regarded as suspects they have the right to remain silent and have legal representation, and that some witnesses ask to be named suspects so they have the above options.

If the McCanns claim they have nothing to do with Madelaines disappearance and have asked to be named as suspects, if they have nothing to hide then why would they ask to be suspects so they wouldnt have to answer questions and have legal representation.

IMO I dont think they asked to be suspects, I think the DNA tests have shown that the McCanns were involved in some way.

At least we're getting something back from the DNA - At last! I agree 100%, after all the false leaks and contradicting info, i think the PJ def have something solid on the DNA, if not something that links them directly, then defintely something which proves their previous accounts werent true, which i guess to a point links them directly anyway, right?

[colomom]

Good morning all....

Well it looks like it will be another very busy day, yes?

It kind of blows my mind to see all the news (CNN live and online and all over the British press) this morning...

I guess we wait to see what happens to Gerry next? And Kate is back at the PJ huh? I can see another marathon coming on...

Personally, I LOVE the PJ!!

Justice for Madeleine!

[Shazza]

Kate McCann has been made an "arguido", people. Educate yourself on the word.

I can't believe how many WS'ers are STILL judging this case according to US legal procedure. Portuguese law is different.

sherri79: My guess is the 22 questions are ones that they do not want to ask her without legal representation present. As an arguido she is required by law to have one present. In fact, a lot of witnesses in cases in Portugal actually voluntarily have themselves declared arguidos so that they can get access to legal representation.

What do they have to hide, that they need Legal representation, if they are innocent as they claim, then they should have no worries, sounds to me like they have something to hide.

[Rino]

Kate McCann has been made an "arguido", people. Educate yourself on the word.

I can't believe how many WS'ers are STILL judging this case according to US legal procedure. Portuguese law is different.



I did. It translates to indict, your point??

[Dark Knight]

For the rude poster above:

How is arguido status given and what does it mean?

Under Portuguese law either the police or a person being questioned can request that they be formally named as a suspect, a process called arguido.

Artur Rego, a Portuguese lawyer, told BBC News: "Arguido is the person who has been accused of being the perpetrator."

"This is just an accusation made exactly at the end of the investigation."
A person can ask for arguido status if they feel the line of questioning is implying that they are a suspect. This gives them more rights than a witness would have.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6657977.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6657977.stm)

ETA: I don't mean you Rino, lol!

[Shazza]

At least we're getting something back from the DNA - At last! I agree 100%, after all the false leaks and contradicting info, i think the PJ def have something solid on the DNA, if not something that links them directly, then defintely something which proves their previous accounts werent true, which i guess to a point links them directly anyway, right?
Absolutely jacobean, they are involved somehow.......how, who knows, hopefully we learn more after the investigations are over and all the DNA tests are in.

[ceeaura]

Pocono Sleuther,the bells went off when I heard that they left the children alone with a locked ,then went to an unlocked door.I could not get my mind around the fact that 2 well educated "doctors" could be that stupid,theres no way they could be.Just didn't and still don't believe that they did not know the danger(s) of what could happen to 3 small children who where the age of 3 and under :eek: everything to abduction,fire and just plain wondering off, among many,many other dangers.

I am not buying what they are selling.I am hoping it was an accident at least and not a planned crime.

Know what?? Even though my gut is screaming at me that they are guilty and prolly 1-2 of the tapas 9 are also,there is a part of me still hoping and praying that it turns out that G&K had no part in it.

Sweet Madeleine my heart breaks for you.


Oh and has anyone else heard that Kate got jeered and booed??That was so wrong for people to do.I understand why they did but it was still wrong :(


So do others think they moved madeleine to one of the Tapas 9s room to hide her there?Which of the 9 do you think??

[Rino]

Good morning all....

Well it looks like it will be another very busy day, yes?



Justice for Madeleine!


Morning and Yes :D

[colomom]

Friends are coming for questioning on Monday

Kate McCann left CID headquarters in Portimão

After almost 11 eleven hours, Madeleine’s mother left the CID building, in Portimão, facing dozens of journalists and 18 TV cameras. His lawyer Pinto de Abreu told journalists that she was questioned as a witness and refused to make further comments, because of the Secrecy Law.

Police sources said, at the end of the afternoon, that Gerry McCann would be questioned immediately after Kate, but there is no indication that it may happen this night. On Monday two couples, from the eight McCann friends that were dinning altogether at Tapas Bar will come to Portimão, to be also questioned, again..


paulo reis (http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/)


I wonder how long they will keep them....that could be veeeery interesting.

[colomom]

in Jornal de Noticias today:

http://jn.sapo.pt/2007/09/07/primeiro_plano/pai_e_de_madeleine_apertados_pela_ju.html (http://jn.sapo.pt/2007/09/07/primeiro_plano/pai_e_de_madeleine_apertados_pela_ju.html)

Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=latest&action=display&thread=1182386581&page=22 post #326


Father and mother ‘squeezed’ by the Judiciaria

Madeleine’s mother returns to the Criminal Investigation Department of the Policia Judiciaria (PJ) in Portimao today, in order to continue being inquired with evidence that was collected by the investigators, which point to her daughter Madeleine’s death, which include cadaver odours, found by English dogs on Kate’s clothes. PJ concluded today at 00.56 a.m. an interrogation of Kate McCann, as a witness, that lasted eleven hours, and focused on elements that were collected by PJ during the investigation, and on contradictions in her friends’ statements.

According to information that was collected by JN, among the evidence that the PJ has gathered for now, is a sample of biological residues that was collected from the trunk of the car that was rented by the couple several days after the girl’s disappearance. The Birmingham Lab has concluded, although not with 100% certainty, that the residue may belong to the girl. Yet, it remains unexplained why the sample was found in a car that was only used by Kate and Gerry after Maddie disappeared.

From the English lab, there are still results from other samples missing, namely from the Ocean Club apartment. Those that arrived along with analyses from residues that were found in the car – which refer to other locations that JN was not able to confirm – resulted inconclusive.

Today, after Kate, it’s Gerry’s time to be inquired again. Both may see their status in the process altered. JN knows that the passage into arguidos is a strong possibility, but everything depends on the answers that are given during the inquiries as witnesses.

During eleven hours of interrogation, Kate McCann was confronted with the evidence that was collected by investigators and with the deposition of Pamela Fenn, the British woman who lives above the apartment that the McCanns occupied at the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz. A testimony that is fundamental to the investigators, and which does not match the statements that have been made by Kate and Gerry, about the night of May 3, the day that Madeleine disappeared. The British woman says she heard the girl screaming for her father, two days before the disappearance.

The 70-year old neighbour also raised strong doubts about the checks that allegedlt were made by parents and friends, on that night, into the apartment, to see if the children were asleep, and how often. In her statement, Pamela has apparently said that, confronted with the couple’s distress, when they noticed the child was missing, she offered to call GNR, but Kate said she had already done so. The truth is that the phone call to GNR was made more than 40 minutes after the conversation that Pamela says she held with Kate.

This and other contradictions dominated the interrogation that the investigators performed on Madeleine’s mother. Kate arrived at PJ’s offices in Portimao before 2 p.m. Gerry was driving the car, which he parked on the opposite lane, kissed his wife and went back to Praia da Luz where the twins were in the company of his mother.

Minutes earlier, through the same door, entered the lawyer Carlos Pinto de Abreu, accompanied by another lawyer, who is the attorney’s assistant. The Portuguese lawyer accompanied Kate’s deposition and was inside the building until 9.40 p.m., when there was a break for dinner.

Upon leaving the PJ, Carlos Pinto Abreu told the journalists that Kate was heard as a witness, refusing to make any other comments due to “judicial secrecy”. Kate left in silence.

[Dark Knight]

Anything in particular just not set well with you ?

Cal, which article ? I would like to read more on this.

Their explanation just didn't sit well with me. There was a lack of logic somewhere along the lines, I felt. Hard to explain.

[petra]

i wonder why they spent so many hours talking to just mom. do they have something that leads them to suspect her more than gary? did they spend 11 hours with her alone because they think she is more likely to crack and confess? did they plan to name them suspects before they spoke to her or was that not set in stone til they got whatever answers she gave during that 11 hours? i really wish they would interview someone that is a expert in the law there. what type of question could they not ask? in 11 hours they must of asked a hell of alot of questions. what are the magic 22 that are off limits til today?

I assume they started with Kate because she is the one who found Madeleine 'missing'. Also more evidence with supposed death smell on her clothes and cuddly cat. But who knows if this is fact.

11 hours included about 1.5 hr delay in starting and all conversations were translated and had to be written down. Short break also for dinner.

Still along time though........................;)

Heard on BBC radio , Auntie Phil was on, she is in PT with them, that they were notified (Kate and Gerry) on Tues or Wed that they would most likely be called in for interviews latter this week.

[petra]

Friends are coming for questioning on Monday

Kate McCann left CID headquarters in Portimão

After almost 11 eleven hours, Madeleine’s mother left the CID building, in Portimão, facing dozens of journalists and 18 TV cameras. His lawyer Pinto de Abreu told journalists that she was questioned as a witness and refused to make further comments, because of the Secrecy Law.

Police sources said, at the end of the afternoon, that Gerry McCann would be questioned immediately after Kate, but there is no indication that it may happen this night. On Monday two couples, from the eight McCann friends that were dinning altogether at Tapas Bar will come to Portimão, to be also questioned, again..


paulo reis (http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/)


I wonder how long they will keep them....that could be veeeery interesting.

Thanks for all the links, colomom.

I think they better renew the lease on their modest rented villa-only goes to sept 11.:D

[colomom]

I still say this is all a game that the PJ are playing with Gerry....for those of us that "know" him...this has got to be making him completely crazy.

When they get him in there he will be half way to cracking...

[englishleigh]

Just woke up to this news a while ago. OMG!!!!!

We knew this was coming. I just am so happy there may finally be justice for Madeleine, God bless her.

I hope Gerry and Kate have someone lined up to come and get the twins if they are arrested. I feel so sorry for Amelie and Sean, bless their little hearts. I do believe Gerry and Kate may never see England again, if this all comes down the way we think it might.

Lucianne.com (a conservative news site where you can post comments about news events) has a banner across the homepage saying both parents will be named as suspects.

I'm so proud of all the investigators in this case!!

Madeleine, we love you, Sweetie!!

[Kezlyn]

Mrs McCann is set to be given "arguido" status meaning that she will have certain legal protection that is not extended to a witness, including the right to remain silent during questioning and the right to legal representation.
It is not uncommon for people caught up in criminal investigations in Portugal to declare themselves arguidos in order to receive this protection.


- From ITN

[ceeaura]

I still say this is all a game that the PJ are playing with Gerry....for those of us that "know" him...this has got to be making him completely crazy.

When they get him in there he will be half way to cracking...


Yea you could be right.I had to edit the last post I made so it may have gotten missed.

I read on the mirror forum that Kate got jeered and booed.If that happened that was so wrong.I wonder if there is video some where of it?Also I wonder if it was one of those tabloid reporter who started it and part of the crowd followed along just for the report?

Would like to see the video to see if its true and how many where doing the booing

[colomom]

I believe that these are the 22 questions being mentioned today:

From: http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia.asp?id=253039&idselect=181&idCanal=181&p=0 (http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia.asp?id=253039&idselect=181&idCanal=181&p=0)
Madeleine McCann Case
PJ searches Maddie’s jeep thoroughly

The 22 questions from Moita Flores

- Who was the last person to see Madeleine alive, except the couple?
- Was the girl asleep or awake when they left home for dinner?
- Were the other children asleep?
- How were the round to check the children organized?
- Who was the first adult to make a round?
- And who was second?
- What was the time lapse?
- How many of the children of the other couples were asleep at the same time?
- What was the checking order?
- How much time passed between the last person outside of the couple seeing the girl alive, and the alert to the disappearance?
- How much time passed between the knowledge of the disappearance, and the communication to authorities?
- Who called the police?
- Who participated in the first searches?
- Where did they touch?
- Where did they search?
- Did they have bleach or acid in the house? (acido muriatico)
- Where did they shop?
- When did they buy these hygiene artciles?
- Who knew where they were kept?
- Did any of the friends change his clothes that night?
- Was any of them absent for an hour or more?
- Do they allow their children to talk to a pedo-psychiatrist so they can tell what they saw?

[Shazza]

I still say this is all a game that the PJ are playing with Gerry....for those of us that "know" him...this has got to be making him completely crazy.

When they get him in there he will be half way to cracking...

I hope so, but I doubt he is capable of having feelings, throughout this whole investigation, he has seemed like a non caring, selfish cold fish, out for whatever he can achieve for himself.

[twinkiesmom]

If they found decomp fluid genetically tied back to Madeleine in the car trunk(from a car only rented after she disappeared), I'd say this case would be a slam dunk, even without the body.

[petra]

Wow heather, you are fast. I was just going to post those questions!!
Command Central is flying fast today--I bet you got that coffee machine put in there!

[colomom]

Yea you could be right.I had to edit the last post I made so it may have gotten missed.

I read on the mirror forum that Kate got jeered and booed.If that happened that was so wrong.I wonder if there is video some where of it?Also I wonder if it was one of those tabloid reporter who started it and part of the crowd followed along just for the report?

Would like to see the video to see if its true and how many where doing the booing

http://news.sky.com/skynews/home

Video from this morning...the Mirror board do tend to get a bit excited....

[calus_3]

During eleven hours of interrogation, Kate McCann was confronted with the evidence that was collected by investigators and with the deposition of Pamela Fenn, the British woman who lives above the apartment that the McCanns occupied at the Ocean Club, in Praia da Luz. A testimony that is fundamental to the investigators, and which does not match the statements that have been made by Kate and Gerry, about the night of May 3, the day that Madeleine disappeared. The British woman says she heard the girl screaming for her father, two days before the disappearance.


Wow, how horrible...if that was when she was killed. I can't imagine knowing that my daughter was killed by her mother and was screaming for me to help her...if that's what happened.

Cal

[petra]

I hope so, but I doubt he is capable of having feelings, throughout this whole investigation, he has seemed like a non caring, selfish cold fish, out for whatever he can achieve for himself.

Now Shazza--don't you remember when Gerry snuggled into Kates neck during one of their interviews?

That was unreal...........:razz:

[CarpeDiem]

Good morning all....

Well it looks like it will be another very busy day, yes?

It kind of blows my mind to see all the news (CNN live and online and all over the British press) this morning...

I guess we wait to see what happens to Gerry next? And Kate is back at the PJ huh? I can see another marathon coming on...

Personally, I LOVE the PJ!!

Justice for Madeleine!

Good Morning Darlin'. I was thinking about you, amazing how the tide has turned isn't it!! WOW.

[colomom]

Wow heather, you are fast. I was just going to post those questions!!
Command Central is flying fast today--I bet you got that coffee machine put in there!

I can tell it will be hard to keep up today Petra....got my coffee...still in my PJs....got all 3 puters humming....

Servers crashing all over the place in the UK!!!

If you want to see something, just ask....I'll find it!

[Dark Knight]

Wow, how horrible...if that was when she was killed. I can't imagine knowing that my daughter was killed by her mother and was screaming for me to help her...if that's what happened.

Cal

I agree. That'd be extremely hard to live with. :(

[colomom]

Good Morning Darlin'. I was thinking about you, amazing how the tide has turned isn't it!! WOW.

Morning Girlie!!

I was thinking about you too!! We should see lots of new faces here today. I hate to say it but, I could see it coming...slowly but surely....

The truth had to come out, soooo many people praying.

Stay close today, lots more to come.

[CarpeDiem]

I still say this is all a game that the PJ are playing with Gerry....for those of us that "know" him...this has got to be making him completely crazy.

When they get him in there he will be half way to cracking...

I wonder if he gives one more blog entry. :snooty:

[petra]

Wow, how horrible...if that was when she was killed. I can't imagine knowing that my daughter was killed by her mother and was screaming for me to help her...if that's what happened.

Cal

The crying was for about 1.5 hours --two nights before Madeleine disappeared. The McCanns were not home, out dinning.:(

From reports of statements by upstairs neighbour.

[colomom]

I wonder if he gives one more blog entry. :snooty:

I'll be checking but somehow....I don't think so.

[sleuthin4fun]

I still say this is all a game that the PJ are playing with Gerry....for those of us that "know" him...this has got to be making him completely crazy.

When they get him in there he will be half way to cracking...

I too think that the PJ may be playing head games with Gerry.
I really would be shocked if Kate was involved in this as a willing participant.(although we have seen it before)
Just a thought here but it is possible that Gerry harmed Maddie through discipline. Maybe she got on his nerves wanted them to stay with her, did not want to be left alone again. Gerry grew intolerant slapped her and she was mortally wounded. Did Gerry force Kate to go along with a cover-up?

Gerry McCann appears to me to be Narcissitic.

Definition

Narcissistic personality disorder (http://www.healthline.com/adamcontent/narcissistic-personality-disorder) is a condition characterized by an inflated sense of self-importance and an extreme preoccupation with one's self.

http://www.healthline.com/images/clear.gif
Causes, incidence, and risk factors


The cause of this disorder is unknown. Personality disorders (http://www.healthline.com/adamcontent/personality-disorders) are long-lasting patterns of behavior that cause problems with relationships and work. Narcissistic personality disorder usually begins by early adulthood and is marked by disregard for the feelings of others, grandiosity, obsessive self-interest, and the pursuit of primarily selfish goals.

http://www.healthline.com/images/clear.gif
Symptoms


A person with narcissistic personality disorder:

Reacts to criticism with feelings or rage, shame, or humiliation
Takes advantage of others to achieve own goals
Has feelings of self-importance
Exaggerates achievements and talents
Is preoccupied with fantasies of success, power, beauty, intelligence, or ideal love
Has unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
Requires constant attention and admiration
Lacks empathyhttp://www.healthline.com/images/clear.gif Is it also possible that Kate suffers from abuse?

"Battered woman syndrome describes a pattern of psychological and behavioral symptoms found in women living in battering relationships." People v. Romero, 13 Cal Rptr 2d 332, 336 (Cal App 2d Dist. 1992); See Walker, L., The Battered Woman Syndrome (1984) p. 95-97. There are four general characteristics of the syndrome:
1. The woman believes that the violence was her fault.
2. The woman has an inability to place the responsibility for the violence elsewhere.
3. The woman fears for her life and/or her children's lives.
4. The woman has an irrational belief that the abuser is omnipresent and omniscient.

Just thinking out loud!
Also colomom thanks for all your super sleuthing!!!

[JinxieJada]

can they be detained immediately after questioning? If so, does anyone know if they have other family staying there in portugal with them and if not, what is the version of the Foster Care system over there?

Didn't they have a nanny at home? (I can't remember and i can't stop hitting refresh long enough to go do another search for the answer LOL) If so, why was she not brought on vacation with them?

[Pocono Sleuther]

Pocono Sleuther,the bells went off when I heard that they left the children alone with a locked ,then went to an unlocked door.I could not get my mind around the fact that 2 well educated "doctors" could be that stupid,theres no way they could be.Just didn't and still don't believe that they did not know the danger(s) of what could happen to 3 small children who where the age of 3 and under :eek: everything to abduction,fire and just plain wondering off, among many,many other dangers.

I am not buying what they are selling.I am hoping it was an accident at least and not a planned crime.

Know what?? Even though my gut is screaming at me that they are guilty and prolly 1-2 of the tapas 9 are also,there is a part of me still hoping and praying that it turns out that G&K had no part in it.

Sweet Madeleine my heart breaks for you.


Oh and has anyone else heard that Kate got jeered and booed??That was so wrong for people to do.I understand why they did but it was still wrong :(


So do others think they moved madeleine to one of the Tapas 9s room to hide her there?Which of the 9 do you think??


Leaving them alone! That's right. That is what freaks me out. I don't even leave my 10 yr and 8yr old alone ever. Esp not to go to dinner. I seriously hope they weren't involved, but as we've seen too many times before the odds aren't with them.

[ceeaura]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/home

Video from this morning...the Mirror board do tend to get a bit excited....


Thank you colomom.I found another video at www.bbc.com (http://www.bbc.com)

There was a bit of jeering but nothing like they made out on the mirror forums.Heard whistles too,guess that was the reporters/photograpers trying to get her to look there way.

Thanks again for posting the sky link.:)

[angarella]

I still say this is all a game that the PJ are playing with Gerry....for those of us that "know" him...this has got to be making him completely crazy.

When they get him in there he will be half way to cracking...

I think I agree! I think he will be the one to "crack".

ETA: Not out of guilt, but out of anger. IMO.

[colomom]

can they be detained immediately after questioning? If so, does anyone know if they have other family staying there in portugal with them and if not, what is the version of the Foster Care system over there?

Didn't they have a nanny at home? (I can't remember and i can't stop hitting refresh long enough to go do another search for the answer LOL) If so, why was she not brought on vacation with them?

There is family there right now, Gerry's parents and his sister. I seriously doubt the twins will be taken away. I would not be suprised to see them taken back to the UK but only if the parents are arrested.

[JanetElaine]

Madeleine's blood found in the rental car..........

Madeleine McCann's blood was found in a car her parents rented 25 days after they reported her disappearance, family spokeswoman Justine McGuinness told CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/09/07/madeleine.mccann/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

[christine2448]

Heard the news drivin' into to the job.......now, where is she?

Y'all are doing an incredible job following this and keeping everyone updated! Thanks from all of us who are at work all day! Popping in and catching up is made easy by you all taking the time to post this information, seriously, thanks!

[lymom3]

Leaving them alone! That's right. That is what freaks me out. I don't even leave my 10 yr and 8yr old alone ever. Esp not to go to dinner. I seriously hope they weren't involved, but as we've seen too many times before the odds aren't with them.

My kids are older but I would never have left them alone to go to dinner even in my neighborhood where I am comfortable. Even if they were directly in my line of sight being that far away from them anything could happen in a split second.

Add to that you are now in a foreign country. No way on God's green earth would I have left them. I have never been an overly protective parent but the thought of leaving my kids alone so I could eat in peace never crossed my mind. It's always been an odd story that was just "off" to me. I hope that in the coming days and weeks we'll see how it plays out.

[colomom]

I too think that the PJ may be playing head games with Gerry.
I really would be shocked if Kate was involved in this as a willing participant.(although we have seen it before)
Just a thought here but it is possible that Gerry harmed Maddie through discipline. Maybe she got on his nerves wanted them to stay with her, did not want to be left alone again. Gerry grew intolerant slapped her and she was mortally wounded. Did Gerry force Kate to go along with a cover-up?

Gerry McCann appears to me to be Narcissitic.

~snip~

Just thinking out loud!
Also colomom thanks for all your super sleuthing!!!

I agree 100% sleuthin4fun,

I suppose it is time for me to post my theory:

(originally posted June 24 at Websleuths)

I really believe that prior to their dinner date that fateful evening GM and KM were preparing the kids for another evening alone. I think Maddie was not too pleased with the prospect. I think she had been traumatized a couple of nights previously, remember the reports of neighbors hearing her crying for her so-called father? She was not being cooperative and might even have thrown a fit. I think GM was angry at being kept from his "fun" that evening. I think he lost his temper when trying to get her to take her sedative and either scared her so badly that her little heart gave out or he manhandled her and fatally injured her. My reference to her heart has to do with the possibility of her having a heart defect related to a mild form of CHARGE that she might have had (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHARGE_syndrome). I believe that GM panicked and convinced KM that they had to cover it up because if they didn't they would lose their medical licenses and the twins as well. I think he had time to take Maddie's body to a remote location and hide her and then return to the resort in time for dinner. I would love to know how their dinner mates felt about their behavior that night. I think KM felt no choice but to go along with her husband. Some of her body language shows some anger towards GM. Watch her in this video (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1264418,00.html) when she reads the script asking for the return of their daughter and GM nuzzles her at the end. Watch her eyes and the movement of her head and see if you don't pick up on a flash of anger towards GM. I see it right at the end when he starts rubbing on her. I thought the nuzzle looked like GM's way of saying "thanks for going along with protecting my sorry a$$". Once the deed was done they were trapped. No going back. I am not sure that they have involved anyone else in this deception (maybe the friend that said she saw a stranger carring a child?) but he could insure their silence by threating to expose their own neglect of their children. He could convince them that if they talked they would all end up investigated by the authorities.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This has a link to the video someone (sorry but you guys are smokin' this morning) mentioned...

Your welcome to everyone!! I am happy to help.

[petra]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/home

breaking-latest news

[calus_3]

I think I agree! I think he will be the one to "crack".

ETA: Not out of guilt, but out of anger. IMO.

If I had to guess what happened.....

The mother is a narcissist and cared more about friends, family, and good times than the inconvenience of children. I think that somehow, someway, poor Madeleiline got in the way of her mother's good time and she hit her and killed her. I think they temporarily disposed of the body and then went back at some other time to permanently bury her.

I think that there is a significant mismatch between the two of them. She outclasses him....despite all she is SMOKING hot. So I think that he pretty well does her bidding and what she says. I think that in his grief, he compartmentalizes the situation. If mom goes away for murder, I lose her....Maddy's already dead so there is no bringing her back. He doesnt' want to lose it all so he plays along. I think this dependence on the wife is why he posted the blog that basically celebrates their good time since Maddy went missing....jogging accomplishments, friends, family, food, pool time, high tea. Sickening. Who can enjoy one moment of pleasure if their daughter was truly abducted? 20 years down the line when it is clear she isn't coming back and you have to move on, yes. Not the next week.

I too think he will crack, especially not knowing what the wife said. He will get tripped up and crack....unless he keeps quiet or his attorney prevents him from answering questions that will incriminate them (assuming the two have the same attorney).

Cal

[JinxieJada]

given what's starting to come out....who can describe the Portuguese Prison System to us all?

[JinxieJada]

If I had to guess what happened.....

The mother is a narcissist and cared more about friends, family, and good times than the inconvenience of children. I think that somehow, someway, poor Madeleiline got in the way of her mother's good time and she hit her and killed her. I think they temporarily disposed of the body and then went back at some other time to permanently bury her.

I think that there is a significant mismatch between the two of them. She outclasses him....despite all she is SMOKING hot. So I think that he pretty well does her bidding and what she says. I think that in his grief, he compartmentalizes the situation. If mom goes away for murder, I lose her....Maddy's already dead so there is no bringing her back. He doesnt' want to lose it all so he plays along.

I too think he will crack, especially not knowing what the wife said. He will get tripped up and crack....unless he keeps quiet or his attorney prevents him from answering questions that will incriminate them (assuming the two have the same attorney).

Cal


I agree with mom being more dominant that dad....

anyone else think when he gets interviewed he'll keep silent and not answer anything out of fear of screwing up? (I thought I read that option was also given over there..please let me know if i misunderstood!)

[englishleigh]

If I had to guess what happened.....

The mother is a narcissist and cared more about friends, family, and good times than the inconvenience of children. I think that somehow, someway, poor Madeleiline got in the way of her mother's good time and she hit her and killed her. I think they temporarily disposed of the body and then went back at some other time to permanently bury her.

I think that there is a significant mismatch between the two of them. She outclasses him....despite all she is SMOKING hot. So I think that he pretty well does her bidding and what she says. I think that in his grief, he compartmentalizes the situation. If mom goes away for murder, I lose her....Maddy's already dead so there is no bringing her back. He doesnt' want to lose it all so he plays along. I think this dependence on the wife is why he posted the blog that basically celebrates their good time since Maddy went missing....jogging accomplishments, friends, family, food, pool time, high tea. Sickening. Who can enjoy one moment of pleasure if their daughter was truly abducted? 20 years down the line when it is clear she isn't coming back and you have to move on, yes. Not the next week.

I too think he will crack, especially not knowing what the wife said. He will get tripped up and crack....unless he keeps quiet or his attorney prevents him from answering questions that will incriminate them (assuming the two have the same attorney).

Cal


Nope, I think it's the reverse. I think Gerry accidentally killed her in anger and Kate has been covering for HIM.

[sherri79]

- From ITN
i'm not sure what the fact some people ask to be called arguido for legal protection has to do with this. the family's own spokesperson said this.


Ms McGuinness said: "Just before the session ended last night, the police made it clear they had some further questions to ask which would require her to be in arguida status rather than just witness status." The spokesman added: "She is shocked and surprised in several ways. First of all that such an accusation could be made against her.

[docwho3]

Has anyone recently revamped the times that the crime must have taken place?

[Lanie]

I have to get caught up with the reading, but just wanted to post I am stunned. I can't believe how much I missed yesterday.
Lanie

[colomom]

I am with EnglishLeigh on this one.

Gerry is devious and clever and he is the narcissitic one. I honestly believe that Kate is a battered wife (mentally and maybe physically). Have you seen the bruise photo?

Gerry and the constant hand holding is all about keeping Kate under control.

[mjak]

Headline on CNN is saying that blood found in the rental car the parents reneted days after Maddie dissapeared has been confirmed to be Maddies blood. If this is true then I can see no way the parents are not involved. This is absolulty sick. It implies the parents moved her body in this rental car. If someone can explain how the blood of a missing child ends up in the families car days after the child has gone missing without the parents being involved please enlighten me. Cause as of now I see no other explaination for this then the parents are guilty. Absolutly sickening. Poor maddie.

mjak

[docwho3]

I have to get caught up with the reading, but just wanted to post I am stunned. I can't believe how much I missed yesterday.
Lanie It may take awhile but there are probably more case twists to come.

[angarella]

If I had to guess what happened.....

The mother is a narcissist and cared more about friends, family, and good times than the inconvenience of children. I think that somehow, someway, poor Madeleiline got in the way of her mother's good time and she hit her and killed her. I think they temporarily disposed of the body and then went back at some other time to permanently bury her.

I think that there is a significant mismatch between the two of them. She outclasses him....despite all she is SMOKING hot. So I think that he pretty well does her bidding and what she says. I think that in his grief, he compartmentalizes the situation. If mom goes away for murder, I lose her....Maddy's already dead so there is no bringing her back. He doesnt' want to lose it all so he plays along. I think this dependence on the wife is why he posted the blog that basically celebrates their good time since Maddy went missing....jogging accomplishments, friends, family, food, pool time, high tea. Sickening. Who can enjoy one moment of pleasure if their daughter was truly abducted? 20 years down the line when it is clear she isn't coming back and you have to move on, yes. Not the next week.

I too think he will crack, especially not knowing what the wife said. He will get tripped up and crack....unless he keeps quiet or his attorney prevents him from answering questions that will incriminate them (assuming the two have the same attorney).

Cal

Sounds very plausible to me! I still have a gut feeling that the light supper/snack that they had with Madeleine at the restaruant, before going back to the apartment, factors in somehow. I am just not sure how.....

[sherri79]

Sounds very plausible to me! I still have a gut feeling that the light supper/snack that they had with Madeleine at the restaruant, before going back to the apartment, factors in somehow. I am just not sure how..... maybe they wanted food on her stomach before a sedative was given.

[colomom]

Headline on CNN is saying that blood found in the rental car the parents reneted days after Maddie dissapeared has been confirmed to be Maddies blood. If this is true then I can see no way the parents are not involved. This is absolulty sick. It implies the parents moved her body in this rental car. If someone can explain how the blood of a missing child ends up in the families car days after the child has gone missing without the parents being involved please enlighten me. Cause as of now I see no other explaination for this then the parents are guilty. Absolutly sickening. Poor maddie.

mjak

Well that's it then isn't it? Even I am completely stunned. How can they explain this away?

Oh man....poor Maddie

[englishleigh]

Headline on CNN is saying that blood found in the rental car the parents reneted days after Maddie dissapeared has been confirmed to be Maddies blood. If this is true then I can see no way the parents are not involved. This is absolulty sick. It implies the parents moved her body in this rental car. If someone can explain how the blood of a missing child ends up in the families car days after the child has gone missing without the parents being involved please enlighten me. Cause as of now I see no other explaination for this then the parents are guilty. Absolutly sickening. Poor maddie.

mjak

I have a gross question...please bear with me.

If the McCanns rented the car 25 days after Maddie went missing, and then moved her body in that vehicle 25 days after death...would there still even BE blood? Maybe it was body tissue left behind or something? Because I would assume her body would be in a severe state of decomposition by this time...unless somehow they had stored her body in a refrigerator or something?

[JanetElaine]

Headline on CNN is saying that blood found in the rental car the parents reneted days after Maddie dissapeared has been confirmed to be Maddies blood. If this is true then I can see no way the parents are not involved. This is absolulty sick. It implies the parents moved her body in this rental car. If someone can explain how the blood of a missing child ends up in the families car days after the child has gone missing without the parents being involved please enlighten me. Cause as of now I see no other explaination for this then the parents are guilty. Absolutly sickening. Poor maddie.

mjak

There's a link to this at the bottom of page 3. :)

[docwho3]

". . . Detectives suggested to Kate McCann in questioning on Thursday that traces of her daughter's blood had been found in a Renault Scenic the family hired 25 days after Madeleine disappeared. Mrs McCann told the officers there was "no way" this could be the case, the friend said. . ."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20070907/tuk-madeleine-s-mother-fears-charges-6323e80_2.html

Note: I added the bolding.

[angarella]

I have a gross question...please bear with me.

If the McCanns rented the car 25 days after Maddie went missing, and then moved her body in that vehicle 25 days after death...would there still even BE blood? Maybe it was body tissue left behind or something? Because I would assume her body would be in a severe state of decomposition by this time...unless somehow they had stored her body in a refrigerator or something?


And, in the end, where did they put her? The ocean?????? I have no idea. :banghead:

[petra]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6657977.stm

PT law for those interested

[petra]

I have a gross question...please bear with me.

If the McCanns rented the car 25 days after Maddie went missing, and then moved her body in that vehicle 25 days after death...would there still even BE blood? Maybe it was body tissue left behind or something? Because I would assume her body would be in a severe state of decomposition by this time...unless somehow they had stored her body in a refrigerator or something?

Maybe dried blood flakes from what ever she was wrapped in/ wearing?
Also I believe the death scent dog hit there too--from earlier reports.

[mjak]

I have a gross question...please bear with me.

If the McCanns rented the car 25 days after Maddie went missing, and then moved her body in that vehicle 25 days after death...would there still even BE blood? Maybe it was body tissue left behind or something? Because I would assume her body would be in a severe state of decomposition by this time...unless somehow they had stored her body in a refrigerator or something?

Not a gross question. I had the same exact one. I do not have the answer but I imagine as long as there is tissue left DNA can be extracted and forensic scince being what it is today can probably find blood cells from the samllest samples. There is also the possibility the body was perserved someone way like freezing. Irregardless if this is true how can it be explained without prental involvment?

mjak

[sherri79]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6657977.stm

PT law for those interested after reading that i have a question. what if any is the difference between suspect and "arguida" ? sounds like the same laws we have about your Miranda rights and they just use a different word for it.

[JanetElaine]

after reading that i have a question. what if any is the difference between suspect and "arguida" ? sounds like the same laws we have about your Miranda rights and they just use a different word for it.

That's exactly what they are, Sherri.

[angarella]

I understand the DNA evidence in the rental car making Kate a "suspect". But why not Gerry too? Or do you think he will be made one also?

[calus_3]

Wow, this is telling....

http://aftermathnews.wordpress.com/2007/08/26/madeleine-mccanns-parents-accused-of-giving-her-a-fatal-drug-overdose/

“Without anything else, what that implies is that we somehow did it, we did it together, managed to dispose of Madeleine without a car, without anything, the whole group was involved, there must have been other people involved.

“Even if somebody could think that, there is just absolutely no evidence pointing in that direction.”

I find that many killers who believe they have gotten away with the crime resort to two things...1) giving a tell of their poker hand (showing their intelligence) in the phrase "there is no evidence to prove that" and 2) they summarize the evidence against them as proof they couldn't have done it.

For instance, let's say that they didn't have a car...which Gerry implies here. Knowing that they disposed of her using a car that was acquired later...and therefore assumably not a logical place to search for evidence.

I know that when I pull a complicated prank on someone, the real satisfaction isn't in the resulting prank...it is in telling them how I did it and got away with it.

Scumbags....BTW their website is still up and accepting emails. I just told them what I think of them.

Cal

[missacorah]

In my opinion, Kate is the weaker of the two. Do any of you think theres a chance that the police could have something on Gerry and be bringing Kate in first to try and get her to tell all so theyll have something to charge Gerry with?

[englishleigh]

And, in the end, where did they put her? The ocean?????? I have no idea. :banghead:

That's what I am thinking. :(

[englishleigh]

I understand the DNA evidence in the rental car making Kate a "suspect". But why not Gerry too? Or do you think he will be made one also?

Without a doubt. Some news outlets are already reporting that he already is.

[calus_3]

Here's another thing that is telling about them....

They are british and they have perfect teeth....definite narcissists! :D

Cal

[englishleigh]

Not a gross question. I had the same exact one. I do not have the answer but I imagine as long as there is tissue left DNA can be extracted and forensic scince being what it is today can probably find blood cells from the samllest samples. There is also the possibility the body was perserved someone way like freezing. Irregardless if this is true how can it be explained without prental involvment?

mjak

It cannot be, mjak.

[angarella]

Here's another thing that is telling about them....

They are british and they have perfect teeth....definite narcissists! :D

Cal

LMAO Cal!

[Jeana (DP)]

I think we may have a separate forum for this case soon. I'm checking with the other mods.

[colomom]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/livenewsevents

LIVE news in the UK

[MrsMush99]

I think we may have a separate forum for this case soon. I'm checking with the other mods.

Oh that would be wonderful Jeana, thanks. I've been trying to catch up. Lots of threads to read though, LOL.

[sherri79]

That's exactly what they are, Sherri.thank you. after reading post that keep saying they are not suspects but "arguida" i started thinking i was nuts. to me the fact they are publicly suspects is a huge fact. i honestly think they must have real evidence and not just a belief that the parents may be involved to take this step. i'm afraid that the information about the car may be true. i'm glad that we may get answers and some justice for this baby but it would mean no hope of finding her alive and none of us wanted that. i have suspected the parents but i hoped i was wrong. that hope is fading fast.

[englishleigh]

So it appears now, almost for certain, that they have had involvement in the death of their own child...and have done everything they can to cover it up, extending to possibly putting their own baby in the OCEAN to cover their sorry butts...at the very least they have disposed of her like a bundle of garbage.

....now let's add to this the FACT that these people have taken hundreds of thousands of pounds from well-meaning people to finance a "search" (hahaha)...have lived off this money likely knowing that Madeleine was dead and what happened to her...and have involved the time and contributions and sympathies of people like David Beckham and J.K. Rowling...and the POPE..

I am just gobsmacked at the evilness of Kate and Gerry McCann, Guys. Probably it has been more GERRY than Kate.

Just saw Gerry's brother being interviewed by Sky News and it almost sounded to me like he is turning on them. He said this should have been done a long time ago, this questioning of Gerry and Kate, and "if they are implicated in this, then let's get on with it."

:eek:

[Sundayrain]

I was always looking for just ONE tear......(or watery eyes.)

If it was my little girl, someone would have had to shovel me off of the ground.

[angarella]

Gerry's blog updated!

[Curious J]

I think we may have a separate forum for this case soon. I'm checking with the other mods.

That would be helpful. In addition, you may want to consider a separate forum for Jennifer Kesse as well.

[sherri79]

So it appears now, almost for certain, that they have had involvement in the death of their own child...and have done everything they can to cover it up, extending to possibly putting their own baby in the OCEAN to cover their sorry butts...at the very least they have disposed of her like a bundle of garbage.

....now let's add to this the FACT that these people have taken hundreds of thousands of pounds from well-meaning people to finance a "search" (hahaha)...have lived off this money likely knowing that Madeleine was dead and what happened to her...and have involved the time and contributions and sympathies of people like David Beckham and J.K. Rowling...and the POPE..

I am just gobsmacked at the evilness of Kate and Gerry McCann, Guys. Probably it has been more GERRY than Kate.

Just saw Gerry's brother being interviewed by Sky News and it almosty sounded to me like he is turning on them. He said this should have been done a long time ago, this questioning of Gerry and Kate, and "if they are implicated in this, then let's get on with it."

:eek: to me it wont matter if it was mom or dad that did it. if your spouse kills your child and you cover for them you are just as evil as they are. how can the bond with the person you sleep with be stronger than the bond with the person you gave life to.

since their family is in charge of the fund is there a way to stop them from using the money to help pay for the defence of the suspects? it would not surprise me at all if these parents used money donated to find their child to save their own butts.

[JinxieJada]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1283158,00.html

Sky sources have said Kate McCann could be charged with the accidental death of her daughter.

Mrs McCann's lawyer has warned her she may face charges today, said a family friend.

[aussie_mum]

whats the link for his blog?

[lizziedripping]

Here's another thing that is telling about them....

They are british and they have perfect teeth....definite narcissists! :D

Cal

Funny............ NOT!! :slap: :slap:

[KOOL LOOK]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=477801&in_page_id=1811

This is one that alludes to the 'boot' which is a whacky english word for trunk, I think? :D

If they killed her that night and disposed of her that night permanently, there would be nothing for the dogs to smell. Bodies don't start smelling like cadavers for a few hours after death.

I think that Madeleine probably interrupted their fun (sex, a run, dinner) and someone struck her and killed her. I think they took her somewhere safe for the night to get her out of the apartment and set their alibi. I think they went back later and permanently buried her....hence the smell of a body on the key, Kate's clothes, and in the trunk.

Sad sad sad.

Cal

The cadaver dogs scented and reacted immediately being brought to Laci Peterson's house, remember her case? Everyone believes she was killed in the home (soft kill). Dogs scented Laci's body to the driveway, where they reacted, showing she left in a vehicle at that point. Then the dogs scented her all the way to the Bay and the actual pier where they think Scott launched the boat to dispose of her body. Which was miles and miles down highways etc...

they also reacted to the tarp in the shed, police just couldn't prove anything because of the gas poured, leaked onto it. The dogs were awesome in Laci's case.

After reading, putting together what we know so far, and I haven't kept up with the case as must here have, nor do I know all the important details, but I believe she was moved from her original placement right after death, that's why they have the hits from the dogs on property Madeline wasn't suppose to ever had contact with.

This is getting more darker and evil. It adds another sinister twist to her disappearance and possible murder, which we're pretty sure she is dead. The parents having killed her, which I always suspected and believed, it didn't add up to me.

They went further in their crime and removed her little body to further keep secret their evil dark lives to decieve the public and law enforcement. Then to have accepted and generated the monies in donations to help find Madeline, how much sicker, selfish, arrogant and heartless can two individuals be. They feel the world, including Maddy owed them everything. Their selfish needs and fun were more important.

They are guilty to me. Maddy hindered their Un-Godly lifestyle as she was getting older, could talk, have better understanding of her environment around her, they couldn't do as they wanted. The age of Maddy is when parents really have to start buckling down and live on the up and up, not when their first born, because the babies don't understand much that goes on around them.

I believe they drugged their children in order to maintain their swinging lifestyle of glamour, drugs and glitz. They were new parents, and Maddy had only in the last year began to be a thorn in the A__!

I've observed Kate on video today, it's plastered all over the news here like never before for us, and she has a look of I'm better than anyone, and above all. Her body language is that of Kiss my butt! I don't care what you think. In your face, that's what I'm seeing this morning of the last few days of video. Their hiding soemthing, you can see it in their faces on the interviews their showing today with multiple people.

Someone needs to stuff that toy cat in her mouth for about five minutes, let her see how it feels to have no control or compassion shown towards her.

[angarella]

whats the link for his blog?

Here you go:

http://www.findmadeleine.com/

Sorry, meant to link it before.

ETA: I find the second to the last sentence is a little strange.....

[Texana]

after reading that i have a question. what if any is the difference between suspect and "arguida" ? sounds like the same laws we have about your Miranda rights and they just use a different word for it.

I think the arguido/arguida status also confers something U.S. citizens who are suspects do not have until formally arraigned on charges, the right to see all evidence against them.

[Jeana (DP)]

That would be helpful. In addition, you may want to consider a separate forum for Jennifer Kesse as well.

one at a time my friend.;)

[christine2448]

one at a time my friend.;)


Push, push, push. LOL ;)

[englishleigh]

Here you go:

http://www.findmadeleine.com/

Sorry, meant to link it before.

ETA: I find the second to the last sentence is a little strange.....

Wow...they are scared, aren't they? Very defensive. Did you notice how he said it's ludicrous that KATE had anything to do with Madeleiine's disappearance? He didn't say, it's ludicrous that WE had anything to do with it....

[concernedperson]

Wow...they are scared, aren't they? Very defensive. Did you notice how he said it's ludicrous that KATE had anything to do with Madeleiine's disappearance? He didn't say, it's ludicrous that WE had anything to do with it....

He also said "his" interview was longer than hers. Very defensive but narcissistic at the same time. I can't say I am surprised.

[aussie_mum]

Here you go:

http://www.findmadeleine.com/

Sorry, meant to link it before.

ETA: I find the second to the last sentence is a little strange.....



Thanks ang! I hope I didn't seem abrupt. I keep refreshing looking for more info, lol. It is almost midnight here and I am also on msn trying to explain everything to a friend.:)

[kato]

Here's another thing that is telling about them....

They are british and they have perfect teeth....definite narcissists! :D

Cal

Ain't that the truth. We have a lot of people come to our Houston Corp. offices from our offices over there and in Scotland. I don't want to stereotype but the ones I've seen and talked to do for the most part have yucky teeth. Some of the royals look like they could even use some dental work. I guess it's priorities but I use the heck out of my dental ins. Thanks goodness for the ins. is dirt cheap.

[KOOL LOOK]

Wow, how horrible...if that was when she was killed. I can't imagine knowing that my daughter was killed by her mother and was screaming for me to help her...if that's what happened.

Cal

Being that it's reported this woman witness heard maddy screaming for her daddy two days prior to being reported missing, was Maddy not seen for those two days by reliable un-biased witnesses at all up and until the parents actually reported her missing?

If so, I have missed this detail. So was Maddy not seen for two days leading up to her disappearance by anyone reliable or not connected to the case?

[ceeaura]

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1283158,00.html

Sky sources have said Kate McCann could be charged with the accidental death of her daughter.

Mrs McCann's lawyer has warned her she may face charges today, said a family friend.


Just going to vent a bit.As I watched this video theres this young man there to Martin Brunts left,wearing a light blue shirt...I just want to smack that silly smile off his face and then the girl gets herself in view of the camera and she has a smile too!!

That just irked me to no end!This is about a 3 yearold little girl whose parent(s) are suspected of killing her.Shows what a lack of respect some people have these days :mad:

Ok rant over.Sorry for going off topic a bit everyone.

[Rino]

If so, I have missed this detail. So was Maddy not seen for two days leading up to her disappearance by anyone reliable or not connected to the case?
They put the kids in the day camp, she was seen. The screaming I beleive is unrelated although could be telling of the family dynamics.

[Texana]

I'm surprised the McCanns didn't see this coming. When they weren't told officially about the tests or the results, they should have realized that there was some hard evidence against them--not just the unanswered questions/time line discrepancies, etc.

[calus_3]

They put the kids in the day camp, she was seen. The screaming I beleive is unrelated although could be telling of the family dynamics.

I once went to the Bahamas alone because my wife had given birth a few months before (how I got away with that I will NEVER know). The lady asked why I didn't bring my wife and baby and I told her that there was no use...1) I was only there for a couple days for fishing and 2) why spend the money if my wife couldn't enjoy being there. The lady said "Awww mon, we watch babies all the time while the parents play". Even at 28, I thought "no damn way I am leaving my kid with a stranger. Plus, the joy of vacation is spending it with family....I think. :D

This family is FUBAR.

Cal

[KOOL LOOK]

I think we may have a separate forum for this case soon. I'm checking with the other mods.


Yahoo for Jeana, your the best darn it. I don't care what I said yesterday. Oh, that's right, I liked you yesterday too! :p I always like you, thanks, especially from the ones who keep up some diligently with this case.


Someone mentioned Kate would be the first one too break, being the weaker of the two, uhm, not neccessarily, especially if she is the murderer.

[aussie_mum]

I saw previously mentioned that there is photo with Kate where she has bruises.... does anyone have a link to this pic? Or an explanation of where the bruises came from?

[Taximom]

Wow. Just hearing about this on Fox news.

Some forensic evidence returned seems to have led to naming her as a formal suspect. In Portugal, when you are named a "suspect" it means LE has greater latitude for questioning than when you are just a witness. She's allowed to decline to answer anything she doesn't want to.

Sister station reporting blood evidence may have been found in the car the McCann's drove. (Sky reporting this) She may have died accidentally in the hotel and then have been taken away in that car.

(Reporting what was said.)

WOW. So sad.

[colomom]

Gerry has left the villa and is on his way to the PJ (live: http://news.sky.com/skynews/livenewsevents)

[Rino]

Even at 28, I thought "no damn way I am leaving my kid with a stranger. Plus, the joy of vacation is spending it with family....I think. :D

This family is FUBAR.

Cal

Unless of course you leave them behind ;)

I've used hotel services. What is curious is they did too but chose not to in the evenings.

[Salem]

Ohhhhh Guys - I don't have time to catch all the way up. You all have been so busy and there appears to be a lot happening with the McCanns!

I'll check in at lunch time to get an update on Gerry.

Thank you all so much for staying up all night to keep tabs on these guys and for continuing to post all the links.

Prayers for Maddie and may Kate and Gerry finally be honest about what happened and let Maddie come to rest.

Salem

[colomom]

I saw previously mentioned that there is photo with Kate where she has bruises....