Police Offer Mom a Deal-Will she take it??

[christine2448]

The mother of a British girl whose disappearance sparked an international search is considered a suspect in the case, friends and family said Friday. The girl's aunt said police suggested 4-year-old Madeleine McCann might have been killed accidentally and offered the mother a plea deal if she confessed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070907/ap_on_re_eu/portugal_missing_girl

[pedinurse]

Yeah, just saw this and almost posted it! Can you believe it?

[colomom]

I think she is scared to death....especially without Gerry.

I think the PJ is working on Gerry. They are playing some very clever mind games.

If they charge her and then tell her Gerry is under arrest....she will cave.

IMHO


Thank you so much MODS (for the new forum)!!!

[CaliKid]

But isn't this what we all have expected for the past several months. Most of our theories have touched on accidental death. Please, oh please let them have the evidence to back up their claims.

[Jdee]

I think they do and I think they have had most of it for awhile now but I think they had to wait until they got all their ducks in a row before they made their move. Plus rememeber Team McCann was leaving this week so the PE HAD to do something quick!

[Mygirlsadie]

OMG do you guys really think the mom killed her or knows who did? I still just can NOT grasp this...Never one time did I ever think her parents had anything what so ever to do with her disapearance.

[joeskidbeck]

I read on another thread of the theory that they may have sedated her in order for them to go out with the friends and accidentally over sedated her. I have believed all along that they had something to do with her disappearance. After the JonBenet fiasco, I can believe anything.

[sleuthin4fun]

I think they do and I think they have had most of it for awhile now but I think they had to wait until they got all their ducks in a row before they made their move. Plus rememeber Team McCann was leaving this week so the PE HAD to do something quick!


I think that the PJ has been very clever. I think thatt more was going on than anyone knew. If this is solved using good police tactics I would not be more thrilled. It saddenes me though to think that harm may have come to her at the hand of either parent. An accident alone would have been forgiven but, if there has been a cover-up by one or both parents that just sickens me.

[curves]

Omg omg I can't beleive this. I was actually feeling guilty for doubting Kate and Gerry. I feel sick.

[NewMom2003]

I haven't followed Madeline's case very closely at all, but I was shocked when I heard on the radio this morning that the parents are suspects. I had no idea.

If this was an accidental death, why cover it up? I don't understand. :(

[NewMom2003]

Where are the other two children? Are they with the parents or have they been taken from them?

[Texana]

I haven't followed Madeline's case very closely at all, but I was shocked when I heard on the radio this morning that the parents are suspects. I had no idea.

If this was an accidental death, why cover it up? I don't understand. :(

Precisely because of that--it was accidental. If they did sedate Maddie and she had a reaction of some sort, and died, it would most probably mean the loss of their licenses to practice medicine. They might very well lose custody of their other two children as well. You or I might be able to plead that we didn't know that the little bit extra of cold medicine or adult medicine would actually kill a child, but the McCanns would have no such excuse.

Faced with losing their other children, loss of livelihood, and maybe even prison time, they might very well rationalize covering things up. After all, doctors make mistakes in judgement every day that result in people's deaths. It's something every doctor has to learn to live with in some way or they can't practice medicine.

As well, there seems to be about one child every year or two in Houston that dies from a reaction to anesthesia or some problem with being sedated, while in a dentist's office. It's awfully hard to correct a mistake with sedating someone without a crash cart and all that other "stuff."

The immediate elevation of Maddie to poster child for all missing children was always a bit concerning to me. The McCanns were so quick to begin to pointing out ways the system could be improved and commenting on the number of children missing every year, etc. Even the balloon launches and pipe concerts seemed more memorial in nature. Possibly they decided that since it was an accident, this way the cover up would actually be a good thing because it would help missing children. See, they would be making tragedy into something good for other children.

Just a thought. I'd love to be wrong on this and have Maddie show up alive and someone claim that nice big reward. Oddly enough, with all this talk of accidental death, wouldn't now be a good time for someone to step forward and get that reward, before it's possibly taken back? There doesn't seem to be even a hint of that happening--another reason I don't feel hopeful about Madeleine's life.

[Texana]

Where are the other two children? Are they with the parents or have they been taken from them?

With the grandmother. I'll go back to check which one--I thought Gerry's but could be wrong. They are still in Portugal as well.

[Angie4b1g]

So you can kill your get and get less than 2 years, as long as you only lie about it for 4 months and not 5.

Got it.

[angarella]

So you can kill your get and get less than 2 years, as long as you only lie about it for 4 months and not 5.

Got it.

:D...

[Shazza]

Precisely because of that--it was accidental. If they did sedate Maddie and she had a reaction of some sort, and died, it would most probably mean the loss of their licenses to practice medicine. They might very well lose custody of their other two children as well. You or I might be able to plead that we didn't know that the little bit extra of cold medicine or adult medicine would actually kill a child, but the McCanns would have no such excuse.

Faced with losing their other children, loss of livelihood, and maybe even prison time, they might very well rationalize covering things up. After all, doctors make mistakes in judgement every day that result in people's deaths. It's something every doctor has to learn to live with in some way or they can't practice medicine.

As well, there seems to be about one child every year or two in Houston that dies from a reaction to anesthesia or some problem with being sedated, while in a dentist's office. It's awfully hard to correct a mistake with sedating someone without a crash cart and all that other "stuff."

The immediate elevation of Maddie to poster child for all missing children was always a bit concerning to me. The McCanns were so quick to begin to pointing out ways the system could be improved and commenting on the number of children missing every year, etc. Even the balloon launches and pipe concerts seemed more memorial in nature. Possibly they decided that since it was an accident, this way the cover up would actually be a good thing because it would help missing children. See, they would be making tragedy into something good for other children.

Just a thought. I'd love to be wrong on this and have Maddie show up alive and someone claim that nice big reward. Oddly enough, with all this talk of accidental death, wouldn't now be a good time for someone to step forward and get that reward, before it's possibly taken back? There doesn't seem to be even a hint of that happening--another reason I don't feel hopeful about Madeleine's life.
They are going to lose their medical licenses and their children, they should have been upfront from the very start.

Most of us here knew their was something going on, but didnt have the evidence to back it up.

[Brefie]

So you can kill your get and get less than 2 years, as long as you only lie about it for 4 months and not 5.

Got it.

So, 2 years for....what? Manslaughter?

And what for gross abuse of a corpse? LWOP??

[Elphaba]

Didn't the PJ make a statement to Porteguese news that they had not offered her a deal? Called it a joke...
*goes to search things out*

[mic730]

If she was offered a deal I would be shocked it she took it. I just can't see Kate taking a deal after all the interviews, meeting the Pope, and media attention she has been a part of. I get the feeling it might be too late for 'confession' if she is part of this.

[poco]

If she was offered a deal I would be shocked it she took it. I just can't see Kate taking a deal after all the interviews, meeting the Pope, and media attention she has been a part of. I get the feeling it might be too late for 'confession' if she is part of this.

-----and she'll take it to her grave just like PR did........

[Shazza]

If she doesnt take the deal and the evidence proves she was involved then she will get more than 2 years, if she takes it then she is admitting guilt and gets the 2 years but WILL SUFFER FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE.

[dark_shadows]

I do not know how the law is there.
In the US, police cannot make plea deals. If they have enough evidence beyond a reason of doubt or a confession, then the person will be arrested, booked and brought before a judge for bail arraignment. If a person is concidered a suspect and interrogated, then they wait for a confession to make an arrest. Otherwise, they are only a suspect.
If the person is arrested a procecutor is the one who offers a plea deal. If a person does not accept the deal, they go to trial.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Texana]

They are going to lose their medical licenses and their children, they should have been upfront from the very start.

Most of us here knew their was something going on, but didnt have the evidence to back it up.

Exactly! If this is what they did, then they'll end up losing everything most certainly. If they had been upfront, with a good lawyer, they had a chance at salvaging something of their lives and keeping their remaining family intact.

[KansasCutie]

Wait, why would she only get 2 years?? Shouldnt it be life???

[dark_shadows]

Wait, why would she only get 2 years?? Shouldnt it be life???
Dear KansasCutie,:blowkiss:
Probably because there is no "2 years", they just want her to confess.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Brefie]

Wait, why would she only get 2 years?? Shouldnt it be life???

Yes.....I cannot imagine why so little hard time was offered up....surely anything short of life would be preferable?
UNLESS, the PJ can kind of 'sucker-punch' them and get a really stiff sentence for abuse of a corpse and other charges they would SURELY face??

[Brefie]

Dear KansasCutie,:blowkiss:
Probably because there is no "2 years", they just want her to confess.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

Don't the LE of any country have to honor any deal made? They should have to, imo. If they go too low, they should have to suck it up. Anything else is a GROSS abuse of power, no matter how much I want a perp to fry.

[concernedperson]

Yes.....I cannot imagine why so little hard time was offered up....surely anything short of life would be preferable?
UNLESS, the PJ can kind of 'sucker-punch' them and get a really stiff sentence for abuse of a corpse and other charged they would SURELY face??


That is what I am thinking. I don't think the LE is stupid and they know this high profile. I think this is a slam dunk for prosecutors.

[panthera]

OMG do you guys really think the mom killed her or knows who did? I still just can NOT grasp this...Never one time did I ever think her parents had anything what so ever to do with her disapearance.
I haven't posted on Madeliene's disappearance before but this news was kind of shocking to me also, since I thought at the most they were negligent to go to dinner and leave the kids alone in the hotel room ~ for several nights. I really did think it was the perfect set-up for some pedophile to grab her. :(

[dark_shadows]

Don't the LE of any country have to honor any deal made? They should have to, imo. If they go too low, they should have to suck it up. Anything else is a GROSS abuse of power, no matter how much I want a perp to fry.

Hello there dear Brefie,:blowkiss:
Police use many tactics to get a confession if there is not enough evidence to arrest. Deception plays a big part in interrogation.
There are also certain guidelines that the procecutor goes by when a plea deal is made. Anything can be offered for a confession in an interrogation, that does not mean that it is going to be followed through with by the state.
Respectully,
dark_shadows

[Brefie]

Hello there dear Brefie,:blowkiss:
Police use many tactics to get a confession if there is not enough evidence to arrest. Deception plays a big part in interrogation.

Respectully,
dark_shadows

Helloooooo :D....how's you??

.......Absolutely, and I believe that's the way it should be UNTIL it gets to a plea bargain....then, I believe a deal is a deal. LE should NOT renege on that deal. I cannot imagine any lawyer would allow that to play out.

[dark_shadows]

Helloooooo :D....how's you??

.......Absolutely, and I believe that's the way it should be UNTIL it gets to a plea bargain....then, I believe a deal is a deal. LE should NOT renege on that deal. I cannot imagine any lawyer would allow that to play out.
My dearest Brefie,:blowkiss:
I am doing very well and it is always a great pleasure to hear from you. Always my pleasure, dear Brefie.

As I said, I do not know how it is there. But here they cannot secure a sentence.
Many years ago here, there were two young men who were interrogated seperate and both were told that the other confessed. Interrogation= no solid evidence. The "other" did not, anyway one committed suicide shortly after being released on bail in belief that his friend confessed.

All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

[Brefie]

My dearest Brefie,:blowkiss:
I am doing very well and it is always a great pleasure to hear from you. Always my pleasure, dear Brefie.

As I said, I do not know how it is there. But here they cannot secure a sentence.
Many years ago here, there were two young men who were interrogated seperate and both were told that the other confessed. Interrogation= no solid evidence. The "other" did not, anyway one committed suicide shortly after being released on bail in belief that his friend confessed.

All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

DS....you charmer you....'tis MY pleasure :D
(I hope nobody thinks these are sarcastic swipes at each other :D :D )

It was my understanding that they can say anything until the 'what's on the table' time.

Although, I am surprised to learn no deals in the US since I watch 5 Law and Order's a day and they seem to always be making a deal.

I am more inclined to believe YOU than a tv show!!

[STEADFAST]

Well, you could knock me over with a feather! I had no idea anyone, let alone the authorities, suspected the parents.

I guess if I'd kept up on here, I wouldn't have been so shocked. Nothing gets past you guys.

[Elphaba]

Lets keep this in mind: the report of a "deal" being offered up, is via a McCann family member that claims to have heard it from Kate. We do not know if this deal is true... remember, Kate and them shouldn't be discussing the case in the first place, with others (how many times have we heard them say they couldn't disclose something due to the secrecy laws in place in Portugal... nothing has changed in that aspect)

Besides, read what this lawyer has to share about the laws of Portugal... if these laws are tried and true, then someone is lying out the bum about a deal being offered:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=10485

[STEADFAST]

Thanks, Elphaba, for the link. Are there significant problems within the McCann family that would cause Mr. McCann's sister to put out this info falsely? Can anyone direct me to a discussion of the sister? I am so very confused.

[JanetElaine]

Lets keep this in mind: the report of a "deal" being offered up, is via a McCann family member that claims to have heard it from Kate. We do not know if this deal is true... remember, Kate and them shouldn't be discussing the case in the first place, with others (how many times have we heard them say they couldn't disclose something due to the secrecy laws in place in Portugal... nothing has changed in that aspect)

Besides, read what this lawyer has to share about the laws of Portugal... if these laws are tried and true, then someone is lying out the bum about a deal being offered:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=10485

Thanks for that. I was wondering about how that worked in Portugal, as in most European countries the police are definitely not able to cut deals like that or set a punishment.

[dark_shadows]

DS....you charmer you....'tis MY pleasure :D
(I hope nobody thinks these are sarcastic swipes at each other :D :D )

It was my understanding that they can say anything until the 'what's on the table' time.

Although, I am surprised to learn no deals in the US since I watch 5 Law and Order's a day and they seem to always be making a deal.

I am more inclined to believe YOU than a tv show!!
My dearest Brefie,:blowkiss:
I do not forsee anyone here thinking that we are "taking swipes" you are very much Respected here and our fellow Websleuths know what an :angel: you are.
As far as Law and Order goes, I do not watch it. All I know is that the District Attorney's Office and the prosecutors deal with the evidence provided by LE. They are the ones who negotiate the plea deals.


All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

[Shazza]

My dearest Brefie,:blowkiss:
I do not forsee anyone here thinking that we are "taking swipes" you are very much Respected here and our fellow Websleuths know what an :angel: you are.
As far as Law and Order goes, I do not watch it. All I know is that the District Attorney's Office and the prosecutors deal with the evidence provided by LE. They are the ones who negotiate the plea deals.


All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows
I too have thought the deals could only be made by the prosecutors and DA's, but as said before I too know nothing about the law in Portugal that could be related to this case.

[CaliKid]

From the Mirror Forums:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=277731&highlight=#277731

I’m a Portuguese citizen. Incidentally, I am also a lawyer. While trying to remain unbiased, neutral and dispassionate, I thought it could be helpful to throw some light on:

i) the allegation that PJ has offered a deal to Mss. McCann in exchange of a confession; and
ii) the fact that no charges have been brought against Mr. and Mss. McCann

For the sake of objectivity and neutrality, facts are in ALL CAPS, my opinion in normal caps, so that you can distinguish the text of the law from my views on the case.

1 – PJ HAS NOT LEGAL POWERS TO SETTLE OR OFFER DEALS WITH CRIME SUSPECTS. IN FACT, NOR EVEN THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR HAS SUCH POWERS. ONLY THE MAGISTRATE THAT JUDGES THE CASE IN A COURT OF LAW CAN DETERMINE THE PUNISHMENT /PENALTY APPLICABLE. I UNDERSTAND THIS TO BE QUITE DIFFERENT TO THE COMMON LAW JURISDICTIONS, NAMELY THE UK AND THE US.

This is common knowledge in Portugal. One of the first things taught in law schools is that our criminal system is not like in the (American) movies. The police do not cut deals. Nor the Public Prosecutor has the power to offer deals and settle with suspects. Only the Judge can determine the penalty. It is actually quite common for the judge to deviate from the accusation and proposed penalty presented by the Public Prosecutor (for example, the Public Prosecutor charges someone with murder and asks for a 20 years jail penalty but the Judge, while finding the defendant guilty, condemns him/her to serve only 18 years).

This is such a basic principle that no detective would try to pull this stunt with a lawyer present.

2 – ONLY THE CONFESSION MADE DURING A COURT HEARING IS LEGALLY VALID (SECTION 314 OF THE CODE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE).

It seems unlikely that the PJ would push for a confession that it is not legally valid. Of course that a confession would be a huge breakthrough in the investigations as it would rule out other scenarios and allow the police and the Public Prosecutor to build a case, but if Mss. McCann later (i.e., during the court hearing) denies what she has confessed, the originally confession cannot be considered by the Judge.

On a side note, this is why the questioning at the PJ is not recorded. Contrarily to what a British gentleman was saying this afternoon on SkyNews, the reason for not recording the interview is not archaism or lack of technical means – it is actually to protect the suspect against something he/she may later regret.

3 – PJ DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER TO CHARGE MR. AND MSS. MCCANN. THE PJ ROLE IS TO CONDUCT AN INQUIRY AND PUT TOGETHER THE FACTS. BASED ON THE FACTS GATHERED BY THE PJ, IT IS UP TO THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR TO CHARGE (OR NOT TO CHARGE) THE SUSPECTS. THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR HAS BETWEEN 6 AND 12 MONTHS (DEPENDING ON THE SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE ALLEGED CRIME) FROM THE MOMENT ON WHICH THE SUSPECT IS NAMED “ARGUIDO” TO DECIDE IF IT PRESENTS OR DISMISS CHARGES – SECTION 276 OF THE CODE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE.

It seems that the focuses being placed on the fact that no charges have been brought against Mr. and Mss. McCann is deliberately trying to pass the message that the evidence is weak. Well, I don’t know if the evidence is weak or strong. What I do know is that from a procedural point of view there could never be charges at this stage of the process.

*

Personal feelings now. I am trained to and effectively believe that anyone is innocent until proven guilty and I am therefore applying this principle to my personal assessment of this case. I also have no problems admitting ,not I feel ashamed or inferior to acknowledge, that the British police is technologically more advance that the Portuguese and probably more experienced – it is a matter of scale. What I would expect from a serious corporation such as SkyNews – on which I have relied on many different occasions for information – is neutral coverage of the story. I would expect SkyNews to investigate Portuguese law before giving any credibility to the hysteric reaction and false accusations made by the members of Mr. and Mss. McCann family. They went to the point of cutting the Portuguese lawyer out the air.

The sister of Mr. McCann is lying. Such lye seems to be an attempt to make the PJ look desperate. Having been on the other side of PJ interviews many times before, I can assure that they never get desperate.

As a lawyer, I found the gentlemen that commented on this case for SkyNews during the afternoon unprofessional and incompetent. As a man, I think they are plain i*****.

I am not an English native speaker and I apologize for the grammatical and language errors, but I hope this helps clarifying the legal implications of what happened today.

[dark_shadows]

I too have thought the deals could only be made by the prosecutors and DA's, but as said before I too know nothing about the law in Portugal that could be related to this case.
Well hello my dearest Shazza,:blowkiss:
Thank-you for taking the time to read what I had to say.
I did not know how my post would go over here, but I felt the need to post what I did. I appreciate your post very much.
With all of my heart....thanks my friend.

All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

[CaliKid]

Gerry Admits To Sedation

http://dn.sapo.pt/2007/09/08/sociedade/casal_cann_e_suspeito_morte_madelein.html

I have bolded parts that we need to pay attention to.

GERRY ADMITS SEDATION-

"Casal Mc Cann é suspeito da morte de Madeleine

JOSÉ MANUEL OLIVEIRA e PAULA MARTINHEIRA\

McCann couple suspected of Madeleines death

O casal McCann foi ontem constituído arguido por suspeita de envolvimento na morte da sua filha Madeleine, na noite de 3 de Maio, no aldeamento The Ocean Club, na Praia da Luz. Embora à hora do fecho desta edição, Gerry ainda estivesse a ser inquirido no Departamento de Investigação Criminal (DIC) de Portimão da Polícia Judiciária (PJ), onde chegou pouco depois das 16 horas, logo após a saída da sua mulher, o DN apurou que também ele foi constituído arguido no processo. A ambos foi aplicada a medida de coacção mínima, isto é, o termo de identidade e residência.

The McCann couple were yesterday named arguido (the word means formal suspect) on the basis of suspicion that they were involved in the death of their daughter Madeleine on the night of 3rd May at the Ocean Club, Praia da Luz. Though at the close of this edition Gerry was still at the Dept. of Criminal Investigation (DIC) of the PJ, where he arrived a little after 4 pm, and soon after his wife had left, the newspaper DN has gathered that he has also been named arguido. To both, minimum legal restraints have been applied – ie. identity and confirmation of residence. (This means they have to report to the police and confirm that they are physically present and resident in the place from time to time – once a day or whatever is set).

Pelo menos sobre Kate recairá a suspeita de "crime de homicídio por negligência e ocultação de cadáver" (este último incorre a uma pena até dois anos de prisão)". Uma situação confirmada ao princípio da noite pela assessora dos McCann, Justine McGuinness, segundo a qual "a polícia portuguesa considerou Kate suspeita da morte acidental da sua filha". Entretanto, fontes ligadas ao processo revelaram que Gerry terá admitido aos investigadores ter administrado um sedativo aos filhos na noite de 3 de Maio. E uma das linhas de investigação seguidas neste momento é precisamente, ao que o DN apurou, a hipótese de que a criança terá sido sedada com uma dose excessiva de um medicamento.

Kate is suspected of ‘homicide by negligence and hiding the body” ( the latter constitutes a sentence of upto two years in prison). A circumstance confirmed in principle by the spokesperson Justine McGuinness who said “ the portuguese police suspect Kate of having accidently killed her child”. However, sources connected to the inquiry have revealed that Gerry has admitted to the investigators he had administed a sedative to the children on the night of May 3rd. And one of the investigation lines followed at this moment is precisely, as the DN has gathered, the hypotheis that the child was sedated with an overdose of medication.

Entretanto, fontes ouvidas pelo DN asseguram que a medida de coacção de Kate McCann poderá ser, contudo, aumentada a qualquer momento, em função de novas diligências. Sabe-se entretanto que, segundo declarações feitas por Philomena McCann, cunhada de Kate, ao canal britânico Sky News, a PJ terá oferecido um acordo de dois anos de prisão à mãe de Maddie, através do seu advogado Carlos Pinto de Abreu, para confessar ter matado a sua filha por acidente e escondido o cadáver. Apesar dos contactos efectuados, DN não conseguiu obter uma reacção a esta grave acusação por parte da PJ.

However, sources have told the DN that the restraint measures on Kate McCann can at anytime be increased, depending on the results of new enquiries/information. According to declarations made by Philomena McCann, Kates sister in law, to Sky News, the PJ had offered a deal of two years in prison to Maddies mother through her lawyer Carlos Pinto de Abreu, if she confessed to killing her daughter and hiding the body. Despite trying to verify this, the newspaper DN has not been able to get any response from the PJ regarding this serious accusation.

Contradições de Kate

Contradictions by Kate

Segundo fontes ligadas ao processo, a PJ suspeita que a mãe de Madeleine é "desequilibrada mentalmente", podendo o crime ocorrido no apartamento de onde desapareceu a menina britânica, ter resultado de uma "agressão" a esta por parte de Kate. Outra suspeita avançada por aquelas fontes prende-se com o facto de Maddie ter morrido antes do jantar. As mesmas fontes admitem que a situação "complicou-se e os pais desorientaram-se", o que terá levado à "ocultação do corpo", que continua por aparecer.

According to sources connected with the enquiry, the PJ suspect that Madeleines mother is mentally unstable, and the crime could have occured in the apartment from which the child disappeared, as a result of an “aggression” by Kate. Another suspicion put forth by the sources is linked to the fact that Maddie had died before dinner. The same sources admit that the situation got complicated and the parents got disoriented which led them to hide the body which is yet to be found.

Ao longo das 15 horas de inquirição, realizadas entre a tarde de quinta-feira e grande parte do dia de ontem, Kate McCann foi fortemente apertada pelos investigadores, que começaram por conferir as rotinas familiares do casal e amigos desde que chegaram ao aldeamento da Praia da Luz, bem como confrontá-la com os resultados das análises forenses realizadas num laboratório de Birmingham, no Reino Unido, às amostras de vestígios de sangue, recolhidos no apartamento e, sobretudo, na viatura alugada pelo casal 25 dias após o desaparecimento da criança.

During the whole 15 hours of questioning carried out on Thursday evening and a major part of yesterday, Kate McCann was closely questioned by the investigators, who started off with checking the routine of the couple and their friends since their arrival at the Praia da Luz, as well as confronting them with the results of the forensic tests carried out at the Birmingham laboratory, UK, the blood samples collected at the apartment, and especially the samples in the vehicle rented by the couple 25 days after the child disappeared.

Segundo apurou o DN, Kate não terá sabido explicar o porquê do sangue no carro, tendo garantido que este não pertence à sua filha. Outra das questões colocadas pelos investigadores, diz respeito ao odor a cadáver detectado por cães pisteiros ingleses nas roupas de Kate. Esta terá alegado que semanas antes da chegada a Portugal esteve em contacto com cadáveres na unidade de saúde onde trabalha.

According to what the DN has gathered, Kate could not give any explanations about the blood samples in her car, insisting it doesnt belong to her child. Other questions asked by the investigators were regarding the smell of a cadaver detected by the sniffer dogs on Kates clothes. To this Kate said that weeks before she arrived in Portugal she had contact with cadavers in the health section where she worked."

[aussie_mum]

From the Mirror Forums:

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=277731&highlight=#277731

I’m a Portuguese citizen. Incidentally, I am also a lawyer. While trying to remain unbiased, neutral and dispassionate, I thought it could be helpful to throw some light on:

i) the allegation that PJ has offered a deal to Mss. McCann in exchange of a confession; and
ii) the fact that no charges have been brought against Mr. and Mss. McCann

For the sake of objectivity and neutrality, facts are in ALL CAPS, my opinion in normal caps, so that you can distinguish the text of the law from my views on the case.

1 – PJ HAS NOT LEGAL POWERS TO SETTLE OR OFFER DEALS WITH CRIME SUSPECTS. IN FACT, NOR EVEN THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR HAS SUCH POWERS. ONLY THE MAGISTRATE THAT JUDGES THE CASE IN A COURT OF LAW CAN DETERMINE THE PUNISHMENT /PENALTY APPLICABLE. I UNDERSTAND THIS TO BE QUITE DIFFERENT TO THE COMMON LAW JURISDICTIONS, NAMELY THE UK AND THE US.

This is common knowledge in Portugal. One of the first things taught in law schools is that our criminal system is not like in the (American) movies. The police do not cut deals. Nor the Public Prosecutor has the power to offer deals and settle with suspects. Only the Judge can determine the penalty. It is actually quite common for the judge to deviate from the accusation and proposed penalty presented by the Public Prosecutor (for example, the Public Prosecutor charges someone with murder and asks for a 20 years jail penalty but the Judge, while finding the defendant guilty, condemns him/her to serve only 18 years).

This is such a basic principle that no detective would try to pull this stunt with a lawyer present.

2 – ONLY THE CONFESSION MADE DURING A COURT HEARING IS LEGALLY VALID (SECTION 314 OF THE CODE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE).

It seems unlikely that the PJ would push for a confession that it is not legally valid. Of course that a confession would be a huge breakthrough in the investigations as it would rule out other scenarios and allow the police and the Public Prosecutor to build a case, but if Mss. McCann later (i.e., during the court hearing) denies what she has confessed, the originally confession cannot be considered by the Judge.

On a side note, this is why the questioning at the PJ is not recorded. Contrarily to what a British gentleman was saying this afternoon on SkyNews, the reason for not recording the interview is not archaism or lack of technical means – it is actually to protect the suspect against something he/she may later regret.

3 – PJ DOES NOT HAVE THE POWER TO CHARGE MR. AND MSS. MCCANN. THE PJ ROLE IS TO CONDUCT AN INQUIRY AND PUT TOGETHER THE FACTS. BASED ON THE FACTS GATHERED BY THE PJ, IT IS UP TO THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR TO CHARGE (OR NOT TO CHARGE) THE SUSPECTS. THE PUBLIC PROSECUTOR HAS BETWEEN 6 AND 12 MONTHS (DEPENDING ON THE SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES OF THE ALLEGED CRIME) FROM THE MOMENT ON WHICH THE SUSPECT IS NAMED “ARGUIDO” TO DECIDE IF IT PRESENTS OR DISMISS CHARGES – SECTION 276 OF THE CODE OF CIVIL PROCEDURE.

It seems that the focuses being placed on the fact that no charges have been brought against Mr. and Mss. McCann is deliberately trying to pass the message that the evidence is weak. Well, I don’t know if the evidence is weak or strong. What I do know is that from a procedural point of view there could never be charges at this stage of the process.

*

Personal feelings now. I am trained to and effectively believe that anyone is innocent until proven guilty and I am therefore applying this principle to my personal assessment of this case. I also have no problems admitting ,not I feel ashamed or inferior to acknowledge, that the British police is technologically more advance that the Portuguese and probably more experienced – it is a matter of scale. What I would expect from a serious corporation such as SkyNews – on which I have relied on many different occasions for information – is neutral coverage of the story. I would expect SkyNews to investigate Portuguese law before giving any credibility to the hysteric reaction and false accusations made by the members of Mr. and Mss. McCann family. They went to the point of cutting the Portuguese lawyer out the air.

The sister of Mr. McCann is lying. Such lye seems to be an attempt to make the PJ look desperate. Having been on the other side of PJ interviews many times before, I can assure that they never get desperate.

As a lawyer, I found the gentlemen that commented on this case for SkyNews during the afternoon unprofessional and incompetent. As a man, I think they are plain i*****.

I am not an English native speaker and I apologize for the grammatical and language errors, but I hope this helps clarifying the legal implications of what happened today.




Wow thanks for finding that! It certainly was well written and concise. And really makes it clear what is going on.

I would love to know why the sister lied.

[philamena]

She will never make a deal. That's simply ludicrous. There's no way she murdered her child....left her kids alone, yes. Killed one, I just can't grasp that idea.

[Shazza]

She will never make a deal. That's simply ludicrous. There's no way she murdered her child....left her kids alone, yes. Killed one, I just can't grasp that idea.
The odds are that she did, prepare for the worst. I cannot fathom a mother murdering or accidentally killing her child and then lying about it, but the evidence that we have not been privvy to at the moment must suggest this as I do not think the P LE would have named her as a suspect without proof to back it up.

[philamena]

The odds are that she did, prepare for the worst. I cannot fathom a mother murdering or accidentally killing her child and then lying about it, but the evidence that we have not been privvy to at the moment must suggest this as I do not think the P LE would have named her as a suspect without proof to back it up.

I know Shazza, but you know how sometimes you get that gut feeling about a case you read about? I'm having a terrible time with this one. I don't think the parents are murderers but gosh knows I could be wrong. ;)

[Shazza]

I know Shazza, but you know how sometimes you get that gut feeling about a case you read about? I'm having a terrible time with this one. I don't think the parents are murderers but gosh knows I could be wrong. ;)
I know what your saying philamena, I have the opposite gut feeling, I had it from the start and there were some posters who disagreed with me and told me I was flaming the parents, I am not saying that your gut feeling is wrong, I could be wrong. We just have to wait and see, I just think that with all the discrepancies and lies told by the parents, if they can do that then they are capable of anything. I would truly love you to tell me "I told you so", I would love nothing more than to be wrong. If the parents didnt do it, the things they have done wrong are abhorrent and I suppose that could sway me to think the worst, but I am not thinking the worst just because of that. I truly believe they are involved.

[missacorah]

This is such a difficult one to think about. I keep swaying between how I feel about the parents involvement in Maddies disappearance.

Back to the sedatives situation. Has Gerry admitted given them as some form of pain relief then or has he said they were actually used to sedate? I know that sounds really dumb but I hope you get what I mean!

[Mygirlsadie]

Oh gosh I know what you mean! I just can't grasp the idea that the parents had anything to do with this. I know you can't judge a book by it's cover but dang I just don't feel one single bit that they are involved in this. Also I keep noticing people are saying the parents been lying all along etc etc..what lies are people talking about??





I know Shazza, but you know how sometimes you get that gut feeling about a case you read about? I'm having a terrible time with this one. I don't think the parents are murderers but gosh knows I could be wrong. ;)

[Texana]

Do I think the parents deliberately murdered Maddie? No, I don't.

Do I think it's possible that there was an accident of some kind, such as either a reaction to a medicine, or fall? Absolutely. Then the McCanns tried to salvage what they felt was left of their lives.

It's entirely reasonable to me that they panicked after an accidental death and they were thinking only of not losing their remaining children and their medical licenses.

[sleuthin4fun]

My hinky meter was going wild with regards to the parents when this story first broke. That being said, I do not think that she was killed intentionally. I beilieve that it was either through overdose or possbily disipline that got out of hand. If it is that latter I have always felt that Gerry was the one who possible unintentionally killed Maddie. I have been thinking though that Gerry to me always looks angry and Kate looks stoic. If the case is that Kate is the one who harmed Maddie would Gerry possibly tell her to "keep her mouth shout and let me handle this" in order to protect her. Could that be why she never seems to have much to say and why their relatioship to me appears to be a little off. Just thinking out loud.

[philamena]

I know what your saying philamena, I have the opposite gut feeling, I had it from the start and there were some posters who disagreed with me and told me I was flaming the parents, I am not saying that your gut feeling is wrong, I could be wrong. We just have to wait and see, I just think that with all the discrepancies and lies told by the parents, if they can do that then they are capable of anything. I would truly love you to tell me "I told you so", I would love nothing more than to be wrong. If the parents didnt do it, the things they have done wrong are abhorrent and I suppose that could sway me to think the worst, but I am not thinking the worst just because of that. I truly believe they are involved.

I know exactly how you feel.:blowkiss:
Usually my inner feelings about a case are set off as soon as I hear about it. With this one, I will didn't feel anything so I have to wait and see. ;)
But I am open to all facts and opinions about this case.

[philamena]

Check this out. Whole article at below link.

http://www.chocolatemagazine.co.uk/news.php?article=1030
UK NEWS: Madeline McCann family spokesperson lied to press?


A spokesperson for the family of Madeline McCann may have lied to the press.

Philomena McCann, Kate McCann's sister-in-law, told ITV News that the Portuguese police offered Kate McCann a plea deal through her lawyer to confess to her daughter's accidental murder.

[Texana]

Check this out. Whole article at below link.

http://www.chocolatemagazine.co.uk/news.php?article=1030
UK NEWS: Madeline McCann family spokesperson lied to press?


A spokesperson for the family of Madeline McCann may have lied to the press.

Philomena McCann, Kate McCann's sister-in-law, told ITV News that the Portuguese police offered Kate McCann a plea deal through her lawyer to confess to her daughter's accidental murder.

It could also have been a translation/word issue. They might have said something along the lines of "IF you tell us what happened, THEN you might only get two years in prison." Not an actual offer but a suggestion, which then repeated to the family and then to the spokesperson, became translated as a "plea bargain."

Obviously, though, everything the family spokesman says will be presented in the most favorable way possible to the McCanns, and if that means shading the words a bit or leaving things out, I'm sure that will happen. It's her job.

[Zelda]

I'm new to this forum. The news that both parents are suspect brought me here.
I have a question--if Madeline was accidently over dozed why would blood samples be of interest?

I also would like to know the ages and names of the twin siblings.

[philamena]

Zelda,
welcome to the forum. The easiest way to catch up with the case is to back to the main page of the Madeleine McCann forum and scroll down to Madeleine Part 1. The information about the twins is most likely there. You can also try googleing for that info. ;)

[Brefie]

I'm new to this forum. The news that both parents are suspect brought me here.
I have a question--if Madeline was accidently over dozed why would blood samples be of interest?

I also would like to know the ages and names of the twin siblings.

The twins are 2 and called Sean and Amelie.

I am not exactly sure what your blood question is getting at, but I'll take a stab - the blood would give the levels of any drugs she was given. But I have to say, blood from Madeleine would be of utmost importance just because she is missing.

[Zelda]

The twins are 2 and called Sean and Amelie.

I am not exactly sure what your blood question is getting at, but I'll take a stab - the blood would give the levels of any drugs she was given. But I have to say, blood from Madeleine would be of utmost importance just because she is missing.

Thanks for the twins info.

About the blood evidence--if Madeline was killed by an overdose, I can't understand why blood would be found. If she vomited would there be blood in the vomit? And if they think Madeline vomited wouldn't it help decrease the effects of a drug?
And I can't understand why blood was found on the wall of the apartment and in the car's trunk, even if she did vomit.
Also, I'm curious about the friend who said he was late returning to the table because his daughter vomited and he had to change the sheets. Did he and a McCann swap sheets? What caused the vomiting?

[Brefie]

If you are referring to blood in the trunk of the car...Philomena McCann said on NG last night that they said 'bodily fluids', not blood specifically. I'm not sure what significance can be placed on that, since we don't know what it is.
Nobody knows what caused the vomiting in the other child for sure. I can only speculate that for a small(ish) child, it could be caused by a variety of 'trivial' reasons such as too much sun that day and eating foreign foods. I can also say without a shadow of a doubt, that it take a 'special kind of dad' to then leave the child alone to continue his night out.

[CaliKid]

There are also other theories apart from an overdose. For example, what if Madeleine was sedated but not to the extent that she was completely out. Maybe she was stumbling around in a semi-conscious state, fell and cracked her skull. Or the window shutters are supposedly dangerous- maybe she got hung up in them. Or even if it was an overdose, if she died while her parents were still in the apartment, maybe they tried to resuscitate her and were "rough", causing her to bleed. There could be all kinds of reasons for blood transfer.

[philamena]

If Madeleine died that way, I still don't get why her parents who are doctors themselves, wouldn't call 911. It's not like they don't know about forensics.
I'm still grasping for something concrete here, but I just don't see it.

[CaliKid]

I don't understand it all that well either. But I believe that both McCann parents are very much image-conscious. Narcissistic, self-obsessed and more worried about what others think of them than "doing the right thing".

So imagine you are a medical doctor with a high opinion of yourself and believe your needs come first. You have this difficult child (as the McCann family have all testified, Madeleine was a "handful") who was a colicky baby, is constantly "hyper" and won't mind. A child in the "terrible twos".

You lose your temper with her often, and now she's managed to "ruin" your vacation because she wakes up at night crying for you while you're off drinking with friends. So you decide you're going to sedate her, only something happens. She dies.

A loving parent who puts a child first might decide to do the right thing and be open about the sedation, and maybe if they'd acted like this in the beginning the world would see it as a mistake. A big mistake with certain consequences, but still it would've eventually blown over.

But the McCanns have this whole narcissism thing going on. Admitting to drugging Madeleine and causing her death would've resulted in a loss of face in front of their friends and colleagues. At least one of them would've lost his/her medical license. The twins might have been taken away. And they couldn't stand that.

So the parents, who think they're better than everyone else anyway, decided to cover up what they did and embarked on this elaborate hoax of Madeleine was kidnapped. And they really thought they'd get away with it. They thought they were so intelligent, putting on a great act of victimization, smirking at the PJ and all the rest of us "idiots" who fell for their lies and scamming the world into contributing to their FindMadeleine fund.

I don't see the parents taking a deal unless they are faced with irrefutable evidence that makes their guilt impossible to ignore. And maybe not even then. I believe that in their eyes, as long as they keep saying they're innocent, they are. If they're truly narcissistic, they have probably even convinced themselves they had nothing to do with it. And other people who don't want to face facts will rally to them and make them feel all the more secure. So they might go to their graves believing they've suffered a miscarriage of justice, still waiting for somone to find their daughter.

[Texana]

Calikid, I agree. Their very positions as doctors determined their attitudes and actions about everything.

Also, the words Kate used, "We failed her" always to me sounded exactly like what doctors say when they make a mistake. They never say "I made a mistake." They say "we failed to take into consideration this" or "failed to revive her."

[aussie_mum]

Check this out. Whole article at below link.

http://www.chocolatemagazine.co.uk/news.php?article=1030
UK NEWS: Madeline McCann family spokesperson lied to press?


A spokesperson for the family of Madeline McCann may have lied to the press.

Philomena McCann, Kate McCann's sister-in-law, told ITV News that the Portuguese police offered Kate McCann a plea deal through her lawyer to confess to her daughter's accidental murder.


I was thinking perhaps by getting this out there when she does (?) admit to it, she can say that she only admitted to it to get a reduced sentence as she didn't want to be railroaded and spend the next 20 years away from her husband and the twins.

[KR2tonenow]

It could also have been a translation/word issue. They might have said something along the lines of "IF you tell us what happened, THEN you might only get two years in prison." Not an actual offer but a suggestion, which then repeated to the family and then to the spokesperson, became translated as a "plea bargain."

Obviously, though, everything the family spokesman says will be presented in the most favorable way possible to the McCanns, and if that means shading the words a bit or leaving things out, I'm sure that will happen. It's her job.

If she is the spokesperson,:liar: she should be more accurate, eh?

[Rino]

Didn't the PJ make a statement to Porteguese news that they had not offered her a deal? Called it a joke...
*goes to search things out*http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2165457,00.html
Portuguese police, meanwhile, last night described as 'absolutely absurd' reports that Kate McCann was offered a plea bargain during questioning should she admit to the accidental death of her daughter.

[lizziedripping]

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2165457,00.html
Portuguese police, meanwhile, last night described as 'absolutely absurd' reports that Kate McCann was offered a plea bargain during questioning should she admit to the accidental death of her daughter.

As I said yesterday, everything we heard about what the Police said to Kate in the interview was only what Kate had relayed to her friends & family. I personally think Kate said this so the Police would appear to be 'bullying' her into a confession........ smart tactic on Kates part!!

[Rino]

That makes a lot of sense.

[sandraladeda]

Check this out. Whole article at below link.

http://www.chocolatemagazine.co.uk/news.php?article=1030
UK NEWS: Madeline McCann family spokesperson lied to press?


A spokesperson for the family of Madeline McCann may have lied to the press.

Philomena McCann, Kate McCann's sister-in-law, told ITV News that the Portuguese police offered Kate McCann a plea deal through her lawyer to confess to her daughter's accidental murder.
When I saw Philomena McCann being interviewed, I wondered if she was a family spokesperson approved by the McCanns, or just a meddling relative who should keep her mouth shut, anyone know? I am a relative newby to this case....

[Texana]

I think everything that comes from the McCann family is approved by Kate or Gerry, and everything is intended to stick to the message of innocent parents desperate to have their daughter returned.

The more they portray the PJ as cruel and bumbling, the better it is for them, if Maddie is never returned, it can be laid at the feet of the police--not the parents who left her alone supposedly in the first place.

[CaliKid]

When I saw Philomena McCann being interviewed, I wondered if she was a family spokesperson approved by the McCanns, or just a meddling relative who should keep her mouth shut, anyone know? I am a relative newby to this case....

She is a meddling relative who should keep her mouth shut.

Philomena McCann has gone out of her way to thrust herself in the middle of this case, getting her 15 minutes of fame, so to speak.

She is the one who insisted over the first weekend that Madeleine would never wander away from the apartment because she loved her family so much, as if it was being hinted that a 3-year-old would run away.

She is the one who referred to anyone who disagreed with the family line that Madeleine had been kidnapped as a "coven of witches".

She is the one, whom, upon being e-mailed with offers of help from strangers wanting to find Madeleine, told them in no uncertain terms to butt out.

IMO, she is not a nice person at all, and she is doing the parents a lot of harm by being allowed to spout off to the media like this.

[jilly]

Calikid Excellent posts! I think I'm inclined to slide off the fence.