Do you think the parents were involved?

[mic730]

I LOVE polls and now that we have a forum for the case I think it's time to roll out a poll.
Thanks to the mods for giving this case it's own forum!

[Shazza]

Most definitely......the parents were involved.

[Brefie]

I would love to take part.........:eek:

[englishleigh]

Absolutely.

[concernedperson]

No question in my mind now. A couple of months ago I was suspicious but not as sure.

[mic730]

I would love to take part.........:eek:

Poll is open to voting now! :)

[ceeaura]

I do think the parents are involved.I also think that 1 0r 2 of the tapas 9 are also involved.

[mic730]

I do think the parents are involved.I also think that 1 0r 2 of the tapas 9 are also involved.

I would like to know more about all those at that dinner night. What makes you think that 1 or 2 are involved? Gut feeling or something in the media?

[angarella]

I have thought since DAY ONE that they were involved!

[Brefie]

Poll is open to voting now! :)

:D hehe....was just teasing...I assumed you were 'wording it' :D

[Schmerty_Jones]

I have thougth so from the beginning. It doesn't make me happy that it clearly seems to be the case.

[mic730]

:D hehe....was just teasing...I assumed you were 'wording it' :D

LOL! I thought I had done something wrong. :crazy:

[Brefie]

I put 'other', because I am still not sure how it played out. I will admit that I thought most of you were bat sh!t crazy at first, but then I read and read and thought.....hmmmm.......kinda fishy, actually.

I actually ALMOST defended them leaving the kiddies in the apartment, BELIEVING that they were so close that they would hear if the kids were having a conversation.....HA! Big ole dunce hat for me.

The thing that REALLY sickens me is that they supposedly made a provision in case of FIRE??? Leaving a door open or some such rubbish? Real smart, doc-holes, did you think about how a 3yr old would get 2 yr old twins out safely??

I am not entirely convinced of their guilt YET, but I hop off the fence about five thousand times a day. So little has been released and of what HAS been said is seems to be POSSIBLY explained, IMO.

It's not looking good for their innocence - that's for shoot sure.

[Brefie]

LOL! I thought I had done something wrong. :crazy:

As if :blowkiss:

[ceeaura]

I would like to know more about all those at that dinner night. What makes you think that 1 or 2 are involved? Gut feeling or something in the media?


My gut.Also I believe it was O'brian (sp?) who was missing from the table most of the night and the reason is his child was supposed to be sick.Now a parent whos child is sick is going to go out and have drinks anyway?
That makes no sense at all to me.So I am thinking it was a cover story for what he was actually doing.

[christine2448]

I posted not sure because I think mom and dad were both involved, and I didn't see that option...didn't think so until the tranquilizer stuff came to light...I thought she was abducted and was blaming the parents for negligence, now, I am 99.9 sure they sedated those children so they could party and it went horribly wrong, then both parents, and maybe even friends, covered up. Sickening. If I am wrong, I am sorry to the McCanns for accusing, but I don't think I'm wrong at this time. FWIW.

[concernedperson]

I posted not sure because I think mom and dad were both involved, and I didn't see that option...didn't think so until the tranquilizer stuff came to light...I thought she was abducted and was blaming the parents for negligence, now, I am 99.9 sure they sedated those children so they could party and it went horribly wrong, then both parents, and maybe even friends, covered up. Sickening. If I am wrong, I am sorry to the McCanns for accusing, but I don't think I'm wrong at this time. FWIW.

I understand where you are coming from but there was blood on the wall. Either it was a rage type incident to cause spatter or she was having projectile vomitng. Most sedated people aspirate vs. the other scenarios.

[christine2448]

I understand where you are coming from but there was blood on the wall. Either it was a rage type incident to cause spatter or she was having projectile vomitng. Most sedated people aspirate vs. the other scenarios.

Ahhh, good points. So you think what? Do you know where exactly the blood was found, high, low? Is it possible it is not related to her disappearance? How long were they staying in that particular room, anyone know exactly?

Thanks concerned, I always love your input. Love the vast array of knowledge everyone brings to the table, makes for a flippin fantastic team, doesn't it???

Dang, did I just go off topic, maybe I should be asking you these questions in the theory thread.....I am interested concerned in what your theory is, have you posted one yet. I posted mine here, but you may have just blown it, LOL! :slap:

[mic730]

My gut.Also I believe it was O'brian (sp?) who was missing from the table most of the night and the reason is his child was supposed to be sick.Now a parent whos child is sick is going to go out and have drinks anyway?
That makes no sense at all to me.So I am thinking it was a cover story for what he was actually doing.

I agree! Who would go out and have drinks with a sick child?
I had not heard this - thanks for sharing.

[colomom]

Parents only....

All others by association only...

[Beyond Belief]

Why did they stay there so long, if they are guilty of hurting her?

[ceeaura]

Why did they stay there so long, if they are guilty of hurting her?

Maybe for a reverse psysicology type of thing.If you were guilty try and think what would an innocent person say and do??They both are well educated people and I see Gerry could think that way very easily.

[Beyond Belief]

Thanks. Somehow this whole thing sounds fishy.

[christine2448]

Thanks. Somehow this whole thing sounds fishy.

Hey Beyond!

It has been fishy since day one...seems we are finding out finally where the 'stink' has been comin' from.

[Texana]

Why did they stay there so long, if they are guilty of hurting her?

Maybe they were caught up too quickly in something that blew up into a huge international event, or maybe they thought by staying they could direct or stay ahead of the investigation. Maybe they truly felt that by leaving too soon they were not making the most of the opportunity to "help other children" by making Madeleine the focus of international attention.

I truly believe that if Madeleine is dead and they are involved, it was the result of an accident followed by stupid and arrogant thinking, that then rationalized that the best thing would be to salvage their lives for the sake of the other children--and make the most of Maddie's death by making her the poster child for missing children. Enact a European "Amber Alert," change laws, etc.

I always thought it odder that they stayed, rather than leaving.

[Shazza]

I think they stayed to keep abreast the investigation as it might look like they were running away and make people suspicious as to why they left before finding out what happened to their daughter. I dont think they thought it would get this much attention, so they have tried to cover their harse by lying.
What really hurts me the most is, if they are involved in Madelaines disappearance how could they have carried on the way they have knowing they are responisible, the jetsetting, the fund to help other missing children, they are hypocrites as well as bad parents and maybe murderers.

It sickens me so much that I feel physically sick to the core.

[Beyond Belief]

I wonder who had that rental car before they did?

[concernedperson]

I think they stayed to keep abreast the investigation as it might look like they were running away and make people suspicious as to why they left before finding out what happened to their daughter. I dont think they thought it would get this much attention, so they have tried to cover their harse by lying.
What really hurts me the most is, if they are involved in Madelaines disappearance how could they have carried on the way they have knowing they are responisible, the jetsetting, the fund to help other missing children, they are hypocrites as well as bad parents and maybe murderers.

It sickens me so much that I feel physically sick to the core.

Because they are bad people. Just a simple explanation for it all. Maddie was the good people in this case but was overrun by the bad. Maddie will look over and guide from here on and we will find justice for her. Keep the faith, Shazza as the good will outnumber the bad.

[Shazza]

Because they are bad people. Just a simple explanation for it all. Maddie was the good people in this case but was overrun by the bad. Maddie will look over and guide from here on and we will find justice for her. Keep the faith, Shazza as the good will outnumber the bad.
I am a very positive person and will not allow this to test my faith, if Madelaine is passed she is in the hands of god and will suffer no more, but I do worry for the twins, hopefully they will be put in the care of family or someone who can truly love and nurture them.

[CaliKid]

I remember reading about a little British girl missing from Portugal about a week after her disappearance, and by late May I was hearing all sorts of weird stuff about the parents- the lies they were telling to cover their butts, starting the fund and eventually their visit to the Pope. Something told me right then that it wasn't normal. The more I read the more suspicious I became.

I am so thankful for Websleuths. I have been reading several different forums about Madeleine since early summer, and aside from Aussie Mike's, this is the only one that you don't have to worry about being ganged up on for going against the status quo- "The parents are the victims" mentality that has invaded the others. I am also very thankful for several posters on this thread (and they know who they are) who have stuck by me trying to get to the bottom of the investigation.

We just want the truth about a sweet, little 3-year-old girl who will never grow up. She deserves her story to be told and the perps to receive the harshest justice possible.

[CHS_teacher]

I really don't know what to make of this case. I did not suspect the parents at first; I just found it very odd that they would go to dinner and leave the children sleeping in their hotel room. In the rare occasion we go somewhere without our kids, they still prefer to go to Grandma's while we're gone for the evening.

Susan

[Shazza]

I remember reading about a little British girl missing from Portugal about a week after her disappearance, and by late May I was hearing all sorts of weird stuff about the parents- the lies they were telling to cover their butts, starting the fund and eventually their visit to the Pope. Something told me right then that it wasn't normal. The more I read the more suspicious I became.

I am so thankful for Websleuths. I have been reading several different forums about Madeleine since early summer, and aside from Aussie Mike's, this is the only one that you don't have to worry about being ganged up on for going against the status quo- "The parents are the victims" mentality that has invaded the others. I am also very thankful for several posters on this thread (and they know who they are) who have stuck by me trying to get to the bottom of the investigation.

We just want the truth about a sweet, little 3-year-old girl who will never grow up. She deserves her story to be told and the perps to receive the harshest justice possible.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[haypaula]

While I never understood how parents could leave three small children alone while they dined, I haven't yet formed a definite opinion re their involvement. If Portugal's investigations are anything like those of Aruba, then I don't put much faith in them.

I'd like to know what kind of evidence they have which caused them to name Maddie's parents as suspects.

[Shazza]

While I never understood how parents could leave three small children alone while they dined, I haven't yet formed a definite opinion re their involvement. If Portugal's investigations are anything like those of Aruba, then I don't put much faith in them.

I'd like to know what kind of evidence they have which caused them to name Maddie's parents as suspects.
Until the evidence is made public we wont know what the P LE have to go on, but by what has been happening lately it must be something they are 100% sure about that incriminates McCanns. Just another waiting game.

[Salem]

Why did they stay there so long, if they are guilty of hurting her?

They stayed because they wanted to be close to the investigation. How many times has Gerry said: "there is just no evidence of that..." when he was asked the hard questions. Gerry wanted to know about any evidence before it could be used against him and Kate. Gerry just never counted on the techniques used by the PLE. Different from those of the English or US LE.

I think Kate and Maddie had a tussle. I don't think it was drugs. I think Gerry talked Kate into covering the whole thing up. In one of the very first videos, it was very obvious to me that Kate and Gerry had just had a spat. It's the video where Gerry puts his head on Kate's shoulder. You can see Gerry using "body language" to tell Kate to "trust him in this." I think, initially, Kate would have spoken up, but because of the "fear" factor, she gave in to Gerry on this point and then things started rolling......

What I want to know is how and why the cadaver dog picked up a scent in that darn rental car.....:eek: :eek: :eek:

Salem

[Taximom]

What she supposedly yelled out after not finding Maddie in her bed has always struck me as strange. "They've taken her!" is not something one yells out when their child isn't where they should be. IMO I think the more natural thing to yell out is something to the effect of "OMG Maddie isn't in the suite!"

Now I can see that if you are planning on making up a story to hide a murder, you would want to put the focus on something else right away. Hence, "They've taken her!"

I didn't always think the parents were guilty when Murat turned up, but that phrase has just bothered me from the beginning. It means even more to me now that the parents are suspects.

:twocents:

[CaliKid]

http://dn.sapo.pt/2007/09/08/sociedade/casal_cann_e_suspeito_morte_madelein.html

Translated by Ozzy at the Mirror Forums

GERRY ADMITS SEDATION-

JOSÉ MANUEL OLIVEIRA e PAULA MARTINHEIRA\

McCann couple suspected of Madeleines death

The McCann couple were yesterday named arguido (the word means formal suspect) on the basis of suspicion that they were involved in the death of their daughter Madeleine on the night of 3rd May at the Ocean Club, Praia da Luz. Though at the close of this edition Gerry was still at the Dept. of Criminal Investigation (DIC) of the PJ, where he arrived a little after 4 pm, and soon after his wife had left, the newspaper DN has gathered that he has also been named arguido. To both, minimum legal restraints have been applied – ie. identity and confirmation of residence. (This means they have to report to the police and confirm that they are physically present and resident in the place from time to time – once a day or whatever is set).

Kate is suspected of ‘homicide by negligence and hiding the body” ( the latter constitutes a sentence of upto two years in prison). A circumstance confirmed in principle by the spokesperson Justine McGuinness who said “ the portuguese police suspect Kate of having accidently killed her child”. However, sources connected to the inquiry have revealed that Gerry has admitted to the investigators he had administed a sedative to the children on the night of May 3rd. And one of the investigation lines followed at this moment is precisely, as the DN has gathered, the hypotheis that the child was sedated with an overdose of medication.

However, sources have told the DN that the restraint measures on Kate McCann can at anytime be increased, depending on the results of new enquiries/information. According to declarations made by Philomena McCann, Kates sister in law, to Sky News, the PJ had offered a deal of two years in prison to Maddies mother through her lawyer Carlos Pinto de Abreu, if she confessed to killing her daughter and hiding the body. Despite trying to verify this, the newspaper DN has not been able to get any response from the PJ regarding this serious accusation.

Contradictions by Kate

According to sources connected with the enquiry, the PJ suspect that Madeleines mother is mentally unstable, and the crime could have occured in the apartment from which the child disappeared, as a result of an “aggression” by Kate. Another suspicion put forth by the sources is linked to the fact that Maddie had died before dinner. The same sources admit that the situation got complicated and the parents got disoriented which led them to hide the body which is yet to be found.

During the whole 15 hours of questioning carried out on Thursday evening and a major part of yesterday, Kate McCann was closely questioned by the investigators, who started off with checking the routine of the couple and their friends since their arrival at the Praia da Luz, as well as confronting them with the results of the forensic tests carried out at the Birmingham laboratory, UK, the blood samples collected at the apartment, and especially the samples in the vehicle rented by the couple 25 days after the child disappeared.

According to what the DN has gathered, Kate could not give any explanations about the blood samples in her car, insisting it doesnt belong to her child. Other questions asked by the investigators were regarding the smell of a cadaver detected by the sniffer dogs on Kates clothes. To this Kate said that weeks before she arrived in Portugal she had contact with cadavers in the health section where she worked."

[dark_shadows]

What she supposedly yelled out after not finding Maddie in her bed has always struck me as strange. "They've taken her!" is not something one yells out when their child isn't where they should be. IMO I think the more natural thing to yell out is something to the effect of "OMG Maddie isn't in the suite!"

Now I can see that if you are planning on making up a story to hide a murder, you would want to put the focus on something else right away. Hence, "They've taken her!"

I didn't always think the parents were guilty when Murat turned up, but that phrase has just bothered me from the beginning. It means even more to me now that the parents are suspects.

:twocents:
I agree with you my dearest Taximom.
Who were they refering to as "they"?
Blackmailers, drug dealers, ect.
All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

[Taximom]

Gerry has admitted to sedating the children. See here, post #10.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53121

Oh Lord.

Thanks, CaliKid. Suddenly I can't keep up with all the McCann threads!

[Shazza]

Gerry has admitted to sedating the children. See here, post #10.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53121

Well, Well, Well, this has been said right from the beginning here on WS by a lot of posters, maybe they should have read WS, could have saved a lot of time.

[BloodshotEye]

They probably resorted to sedating the child/children, after Maddie was reported to have cried for over an hour, two nights prior to the child's dissappearance.

The older woman who resided in the flat above the McCann's, reported that she heard the child crying for approx. 75 minutes, and cried for her "daddy". Then she stopped crying, when the parents returned home that night.
http://www2.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/17093/Mum-s-amazing-outburst-on-night-she-disappeared-WE-VE-LET-MADELEINE-DOWN-

This report of the children, apparently left alone prior to the disappearance, suggests the McCanns lied. The night Maddie disappeared, was not the first and only time they did that.

[BloodshotEye]

Re: Sedating the child

All of a sudden, I am wanting to know more the O'Briens. They are friends of the McCanns, who were at the Tappas bar that night of the disappearance.

If you check out the "timeline" thread, read the entry that discusses the commings goings from the Tappas bar at 9:30 P.M>

"about 9:30 Mathew and Russell leave the Tapas Bar. Mathew will also state that he saw light in the McCann apartment, and Russell will say his daughter was vomiting and he had to change her sheets. But housekeeping has no record of him asking for clean linens."

So, I am wondering...did Russel Obrien sedate his child? Is that what caused the vomiting? And why is it, that houskeeping has no record of the request for clean linens?

This little group is hiding something. Maybe it is simply their profound guilt, over sedating their children so that they could party at the tappas bar. Perhaps it is that simple. But they are definitely hiding something.

[philamena]

At this time I don't think the parents killed Maddie but I agree they've acted odd.

I have to ask, when did they have time to kill their child and hide her body?

[aussie_mum]

I wasn't sure where to ask these questions....

1. Where were the twins when K & G supposedly took madeleine to supper that evening? Why take only Maddie?
2. Where was madeleine when the twins were at the creche?
3. In the last photo that was supposedly taken of Madeleine, where the twins there? And is there any other photo's of that time? When I take pics of the kids doing something I always take quite a few pics.

[BloodshotEye]

I know what you mean, Aussie Mum, about the report of K & G taking Maddie out for a snack at about 6:30 p.m. And stranger still, they did this after they picked up the children from the creche.

So, the twins are in the apartment (alone?), and K&G take Maddie out for a snack?

very odd.

[Shazza]

I know what you mean, Aussie Mum, about the report of K & G taking Maddie out for a snack at about 6:30 p.m. And stranger still, they did this after they picked up the children from the creche.

So, the twins are in the apartment (alone?), and K&G take Maddie out for a snack?

very odd.

There has been information posted that the times on the camera have been changed, and video surveillance at the cafe where madelaine had a snack doesnt corroborate the parents version of events. Cant remember where I read it, but it was recently, in the last day or two, there is just so much happening, cant think straight.

[aussie_mum]

There has been information posted that the times on the camera have been changed, and video surveillance at the cafe where madelaine had a snack doesnt corroborate the parents version of events. Cant remember where I read it, but it was recently, in the last day or two, there is just so much happening, cant think straight.



I have read the same thing shazza which is why I wondered if the twins may have been in some of the pics and if there was other pics from the same time, because for instance even tho maddie may have worn the same togs a couple of days... it's not likely that all 3 kids wore the same clothes and togs on the same day as another day. (Does that make sense?)

Also wondering if perhaps witnesses/other holiday makers have heard some of the things they have said and thought back and said hey you know what I was in that pool at that time and they definitely weren't there etc etc.

[philamena]

I wasn't sure where to ask these questions....

1. Where were the twins when K & G supposedly took madeleine to supper that evening? Why take only Maddie?
2. Where was madeleine when the twins were at the creche?
3. In the last photo that was supposedly taken of Madeleine, where the twins there? And is there any other photo's of that time? When I take pics of the kids doing something I always take quite a few pics.


Great questions aussie_mum.

[aussie_mum]

togs = swimmers/bathers/swimming costumes (It's a Queensland thing)

[BloodshotEye]

That's interesting, Shazza.
Because it simply doesn't make sense, that they would pick up the children, and then both parents take Maddie out. Wondering if all three children were at the creche, or just the twins.

This inconsistancy between the parent's version of the timeline and the security video at the cafe, appears to be another little hiccup in the parent's story. I am wondering if they simply "groomed" their story a bit, so that they didn't look bad. Or are they hiding something else?

[Shazza]

I have read the same thing shazza which is why I wondered if the twins may have been in some of the pics and if there was other pics from the same time, because for instance even tho maddie may have worn the same togs a couple of days... it's not likely that all 3 kids wore the same clothes and togs on the same day as another day. (Does that make sense?)

Also wondering if perhaps witnesses/other holiday makers have heard some of the things they have said and thought back and said hey you know what I was in that pool at that time and they definitely weren't there etc etc.
You make sense Aussie_Mum, it does seem strange that there are not more photos.

[aussie_mum]

Ummmm again.... not sure where to put this.....

http://au.news.yahoo.com/070908/19/14dlv.html

Not sure if it has been posted somewhere along the line but there is a couple of interesting statements.....

1. The naming of the couple as suspects came after police in Portugal received the partial results of forensic tests on traces of blood found in the room where the child was sleeping.

2. Kate McCann, 39, was also questioned by police about blood allegedly found in a car the couple rented 25 days after Madeleine went missing.

[aussie_mum]

You make sense Aussie_Mum, it does seem strange that there are not more photos.


LOL! Thanks. I tend to get tongue tied even when writing so the things I type can be confusing..... even for me!

[Shazza]

LOL! Thanks. I tend to get tongue tied even when writing so the things I type can be confusing..... even for me!
I know what you mean, I have to proof read most of what I type as I start thinking to far ahead and then type it but have missed out things in the middle.:confused:

[Trino]

At this time I don't think the parents killed Maddie but I agree they've acted odd. I have to ask, when did they have time to kill their child and hide her body?

It's questionable when the last time Maddie was actually seen in public.

[CaliKid]

One thing I hope is that the resort keeps a log of children checked in and out of the creche on specific days. This may be the only way to track whether the McCann children used the creche on May 3 and what time they left.

[Shazza]

One thing I hope is that the resort keeps a log of children checked in and out of the creche on specific days. This may be the only way to track whether the McCann children used the creche on May 3 and what time they left.
There is definitely a discrepancy as to when Maddie was seen last by anyone but her parents, I think there was time to hide the body, was it the same day that Gerry was seen with the suitcase. And I think it is possible that she could have been put into one of their friends room, maybe obrien as he was missing from the dinner table for a long time that night, he may know more than he is telling. He would have had time to do something with Madelaines body.

[CaliKid]

Gerry took the suitcase to the beach the day after Madeleine disappeared. Very, very bold of him if it contained her body, and they must have felt quite sure that the PJ had "fallen for" their abduction story.

[Shazza]

Gerry took the suitcase to the beach the day after Madeleine disappeared. Very, very bold of him if it contained her body, and they must have felt quite sure that the PJ had "fallen for" their abduction story.
This is far out there but anything is possible, he could have had her in the suitcase in case he thought the P LE would search their room while they were out, if Madelaine was with them ( I know this sounds gruesome) they wouldnt find her.

[ceeaura]

Maybe they were caught up too quickly in something that blew up into a huge international event, or maybe they thought by staying they could direct or stay ahead of the investigation. Maybe they truly felt that by leaving too soon they were not making the most of the opportunity to "help other children" by making Madeleine the focus of international attention.

I truly believe that if Madeleine is dead and they are involved, it was the result of an accident followed by stupid and arrogant thinking, that then rationalized that the best thing would be to salvage their lives for the sake of the other children--and make the most of Maddie's death by making her the poster child for missing children. Enact a European "Amber Alert," change laws, etc.

I always thought it odder that they stayed, rather than leaving.


I have been thinking something along those same lines Texana.I do not believe they killed her on purpose.Maybe that is wishful thinking on my part.
What you say about trying to salvage their lives and making the most of Maddies death makes sense to me.Also some of the things they have done,like the balloon release for example,seem like more of a memorial or tribute for Madeleine.

[Betsy]

The suitcase may not have held Maddie, but may have held other evidence--maybe blankets, clothes, etc. Things that could be explained away, if someone should search the suitcase ("We were planning to have a picnic on the beach, so we needed a blanket") And I could see bringing extra clothes as well to the beach.

Maybe they knew that there would be more searches of the apartment--what better way to "hide" evidence than to keep it with you? And then dispose of it at your own pace...

[Shazza]

I have been thinking something along those same lines Texana.I do not believe they killed her on purpose.Maybe that is wishful thinking on my part.
What you say about trying to salvage their lives and making the most of Maddies death makes sense to me.Also some of the things they have done,like the balloon release for example,seem like more of a memorial or tribute for Madeleine.
If the McCanns were involved in the disappearance of Madelaine and the balloon release was a tribute or memorial then they are very disturbed and self absorbed people.

[lizziedripping]

If the McCanns were involved in the disappearance of Madelaine and the balloon release was a tribute or memorial then they are very disturbed and self absorbed people.

Hi Shazza!!

I think the same about meeting the Pope. Even if they are found not to be involved, I have never agreed with them meeting the Pope. There are many terminally ill children & adults in this world who would love nothing more than to meet the Pope before their ending, I would rather have seen that than the McCanns hog the limelight yet again!

[Shazza]

Hi Shazza!!

I think the same about meeting the Pope. Even if they are found not to be involved, I have never agreed with them meeting the Pope. There are many terminally ill children & adults in this world who would love nothing more than to meet the Pope before their ending, I would rather have seen that than the McCanns hog the limelight yet again!

Thats for sure Lizzie, whole heartedly agree.

[Betsy]

I'm a little fuzzy on the Pope details. Did the McCanns ask to meet with the Pope, or were they invited by the Vatican? To me, there's a huge difference. I mean, if they are involved in Maddie's death, and then asked to be blessed by the Pope, that is evil beyond anything. But if they were invited, how on earth could they say no? First off, no Catholic would pass up that opportunity, and second, how would they explain THAT in the media? "We're too busy to meet with the Pope?"

So who initiated the meeting, I guess I want to know...

[sandraladeda]

The one thing that is suspicious to me, is this: on the one occasion when the parents leave their child unattended, with a window of opportunity of a couple hours, what is the statistical likelihood that a predator of some sort would just happen to come along, see the opportunity and take the child? How does this predator/kidnapper know the children are alone?

[Jdee]

If the McCann's killed Madeleline either by accident or it was planned.. I don't buy into the friends being involved. Both of the McCanns are doctors who take an oath to protect life as such. For them to kill their own child goes against that oath. Possible? Yes... But it would mean they are both psychopaths with no concience. If the friends or even one of them is involved they too would have to be a psychopath. I don't buy into that. I can however accept that one of the parents did it without the other knowning. That is possible and to me the most plausiable explanation.
Kate saying (if she really said it) that she got the cadaver smell on her because of work.. well I thought she was a genaral prationeer that worked one day a week? I sort of doubt she would get the death smell on her and keep it on her for dogs to sniff out.
The LE think Kate did it. Most here have thought Gerry was the culprit becuase he comes across like a jerk with a temper and Kate comes across like an abused wife. What IF she did do it and Gerry did not know? Or if he knew he was in denial? A husband or wife can cheat on their spouse and the other can 'pretend' not to know so as to hold things together. Just my rambling thoughts...

[Beyond Belief]

On greta last night they stated the blood in the room was not maddies. will have to check the transcripts to see exactly what they said. just an fyi.

[Mygirlsadie]

If they hurt or killed their beautiful precious little girl then they are evil beyond anything. As for the meeting with the pope if they wasted his time because they already know what happened to Maddie then they are just idiots who shouldnt of wasted his time. He is the pope he is not God..just a man & I could tell you right now I would not of went one second out of Portugal to meet anyone if my baby girl was missing & I would tell the media just that.





I'm a little fuzzy on the Pope details. Did the McCanns ask to meet with the Pope, or were they invited by the Vatican? To me, there's a huge difference. I mean, if they are involved in Maddie's death, and then asked to be blessed by the Pope, that is evil beyond anything. But if they were invited, how on earth could they say no? First off, no Catholic would pass up that opportunity, and second, how would they explain THAT in the media? "We're too busy to meet with the Pope?"

So who initiated the meeting, I guess I want to know...

[Trino]

The one thing that is suspicious to me, is this: on the one occasion when the parents leave their child unattended, with a window of opportunity of a couple hours, what is the statistical likelihood that a predator of some sort would just happen to come along, see the opportunity and take the child? How does this predator/kidnapper know the children are alone?

I don't know who's right, but this article says A LOT OF MADELINE'S DNA in a car rented 3 weeks after she disappeared.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007411048,00.html
A source close to the investigation said yesterday: “Police told Kate they have found a lot of Madeleine’s DNA in the car that they hired about three weeks after the disappearance.

“They are saying they have a lot of hair, body fluids and fibres belonging to Maddie in the car. They said that the sniffer dogs smelt death on Kate — which was amazing at it was three months after Madeleine vanished that she was sniffed.

[Texana]

I'm a little fuzzy on the Pope details. Did the McCanns ask to meet with the Pope, or were they invited by the Vatican? To me, there's a huge difference. I mean, if they are involved in Maddie's death, and then asked to be blessed by the Pope, that is evil beyond anything. But if they were invited, how on earth could they say no? First off, no Catholic would pass up that opportunity, and second, how would they explain THAT in the media? "We're too busy to meet with the Pope?"

So who initiated the meeting, I guess I want to know...

It's never been said. I wanted to know the same thing. I feel certain it was arranged by the people they hired as part of the PR/media campaign--the same way that David Beckham and J.K. Rowling were involved with the reward fund and public appeals.

[Texana]

If the McCann's killed Madeleline either by accident or it was planned.. I don't buy into the friends being involved. Both of the McCanns are doctors who take an oath to protect life as such. For them to kill their own child goes against that oath. Possible? Yes... But it would mean they are both psychopaths with no concience. If the friends or even one of them is involved they too would have to be a psychopath. I don't buy into that. I can however accept that one of the parents did it without the other knowning. That is possible and to me the most plausiable explanation.
Kate saying (if she really said it) that she got the cadaver smell on her because of work.. well I thought she was a genaral prationeer that worked one day a week? I sort of doubt she would get the death smell on her and keep it on her for dogs to sniff out.
The LE think Kate did it. Most here have thought Gerry was the culprit becuase he comes across like a jerk with a temper and Kate comes across like an abused wife. What IF she did do it and Gerry did not know? Or if he knew he was in denial? A husband or wife can cheat on their spouse and the other can 'pretend' not to know so as to hold things together. Just my rambling thoughts...

If they are involved, I don't believe they purposefully meant to do it in any way. I believe it was an accident either from a medication given to help the child sleep (that she then had a reaction to or aspirated in the night, etc.) or an accidental death resulting from not being supervised. I suppose it is all possible that one of the parents struck the child in such a way that she then died as well, but that's less possible to me.

Remember as doctors they are also used to making decisions and judgements that result in patients' deaths. Certainly not on purpose, but just as a result of making decisions in the real world with real patients--who have unknown allergies, undiagnosed other conditions, tolerances, interactions, etc. Any doctor who can't live with that as a possible result of their daily decisions doesn't practice very long.

The fact that they are both doctors is more evidence that they could handle the results of a decision they made to give Maddie a sedative or to leave her alone sedated or presumably sleeping than not, because they are trained by profession to think much more objectively that way than the rest of us.

If I gave my child an accidental overdose or medicine that she then reacted to and died, I wouldn't lose my professional certification in another field. But a doctor most certainly would face that as a very real consequence.

So to the McCanns, it wouldn't just be losing Maddie. It meant losing "everything" including their other children and their livelihoods.

[PrayersForMaura]

I see this as another JonBenet ... and I think the mother is guilty in both cases, even if it was misplaced anger than led to an accident.

[Salem]

I see this as another JonBenet ... and I think the mother is guilty in both cases, even if it was misplaced anger than led to an accident.

I agree Prayers. I believe it was Kate and it was a tussle, possibly over the cuddle cat. There has been discussion that cuddle cat was actually a birthday present for Maddie. Maybe Maddie found it early and Kate tried to take it away from her, causing Maddie to have a "melt down" and Kate mis-handled the situation in any number of ways.

Several things that lead me to believe this include: Kate saying very early on that "she hated the media." This was at a time when the the media was very important in getting the word out.

There were also a couple of interviews, when the host asked Kate what she would like to say to Maddie. Each time, Kate hesitated, started to speak, and then finally said "Madeleine knows I love her." Never a direct appeal to the abductor nor a personal comment to Maddie - no we are looking for you, hang in there, we love you, etc. Just "Madeleine knows I love her."

Why did Kate yell "they have taken her'? Her who? Kate has 2 daughters, Maddie and Emalie. Taken who? Why did everyone understand she was talking about Maddie? (I'm not sure everyone understood that, but it appears they did as no one ever seemed to ask "who").

I don't think it was intended or planned, it just happened. I do think Gerry knew and at least one of the Tapas 9 knows. I do not believe that all of the friends know. I find it impossible to believe that not one of the other 7 people would do the right thing and spill the beans. And if it is shown that all 7 knew and not one had the decentcy to speak up, it will definitely have an impact on how I look at people in general.

Salem

[CaliKid]

There was also allegedly a comment made in the Tapas bar (as reported by a waiter there) that someone in the group said, "This was not the way it was supposed to happen".

Not sure if they were discussing Madeleine or if it's even true, but it's suspect to me.

[Kim Ii]

Forgive me if this has been discussed -- I am brand new to this case, but when I read that there is now suspicion that the parents may be involved, it got my attention.

Aren't both these parents doctors? Not that this means they couldn't, or wouldn't have done this, but yet, it may be the reason it's given them an 'edge' to the case thus far. They most likely understand forensics, etc., a bit better than the average person and could cover their tracks a little better than most...

I have always wondered about the fact that they left those children BY THEMSELVES when they went out to eat. Didn't like the sound of that at all...

So...does it really look as though the parents may be involved? Guess I'm still in shock...didn't see that one coming. I've only viewed just a little of one of their interviews. They seemed like truly grieving parents; if they're putting on an act, even if this was an accident, I hope they get the book thrown at them. They've been able to garner a heckuva lot of help from people who truly care about this child and incredible expense has been undertaken to try to find this little girl...

Hopefully, the truth will come out soon...

[Liadan]

Absent parents, three kids left alone possibly sedated - why just take the oldest and biggest? Wouldn't the younger children be an easier target? That situation was a smorgasbord for an abductor. Poor precious Madeleine is missing but they should be holding those other children close to their chests. "The parents doth protest too much, methinks."

[Texana]

I think at times when they show grief they most definitely do feel it. However, it's the same grief a parent would feel if their child was accidentally hit by a car. Even parents whose negligence in supervising their children, allowed that to happen by default, feel and show grief.

Salem, I noticed the same thing in one of the interviews, Kate pauses and then says "Madeleine knows we love her." I thought that was odd, too. Duh, of course she should know that. What she might not know is that her parents were looking for her--or even still wanted her. On another interview that I read only in print, Kate said something more explicit about "always looking for you." But I was surprised she didn't say that repeatedly--how could she tell which tv interview her child might be lucky enough to actually view?

One more odd thing--the parents insisted early in the timeline that they knew Maddie was "safe." How the hell did they know that, and how could you say that, if you knew your child had probably been abducted by a pedophile? I can see appealing directly to a kidnapper in an appeasing kind of way, 'We know you are taking good care of her, but she belongs at home with us?"

[aussie_mum]

I agree Prayers. I believe it was Kate and it was a tussle, possibly over the cuddle cat. There has been discussion that cuddle cat was actually a birthday present for Maddie. Maybe Maddie found it early and Kate tried to take it away from her, causing Maddie to have a "melt down" and Kate mis-handled the situation in any number of ways.

Several things that lead me to believe this include: Kate saying very early on that "she hated the media." This was at a time when the the media was very important in getting the word out.

There were also a couple of interviews, when the host asked Kate what she would like to say to Maddie. Each time, Kate hesitated, started to speak, and then finally said "Madeleine knows I love her." Never a direct appeal to the abductor nor a personal comment to Maddie - no we are looking for you, hang in there, we love you, etc. Just "Madeleine knows I love her."

Why did Kate yell "they have taken her'? Her who? Kate has 2 daughters, Maddie and Emalie. Taken who? Why did everyone understand she was talking about Maddie? (I'm not sure everyone understood that, but it appears they did as no one ever seemed to ask "who").

I don't think it was intended or planned, it just happened. I do think Gerry knew and at least one of the Tapas 9 knows. I do not believe that all of the friends know. I find it impossible to believe that not one of the other 7 people would do the right thing and spill the beans. And if it is shown that all 7 knew and not one had the decentcy to speak up, it will definitely have an impact on how I look at people in general.

Salem

Wow that is very interesting.... That had never occurred to me. I mean I always wondered why she would yell "They have taken her!" but didn't think about yes she had 2 daughters and how would anyone know which daughter.
My first thought would be that she had let herself out or rolled under the bed. My son has rolled under the bed on numerous occasions and has given me a big fright, but the first thing I do is search for him and wonder where he is and panic that he done something dangerous... not think someone has taken him.

[Barnaby]

Yes I have thought that they were involved from the start. Kate McCanns initial statement "They've taken her, they've taken her" was the first thing to alert me! Not a logical response!

[angelmom]

Yes I have thought that they were involved from the start. Kate McCanns initial statement "They've taken her, they've taken her" was the first thing to alert me! Not a logical response!

Me too. I immediately thought of Scott telling Sharon, "Laci's missing."

[teacherbees]

I believe the McCanns are involved in the death of Maddie.

While I realize every person is different and we don't all have the same reactions to traumatic events, I think the McCanns behavior has fallen waaay out of any normal parameters for grieving/distraught parents.

The biggest thing I have trouble getting past is the way they let their other two babies go off to the creche every day without them AFTER Maddie's disappearance.

Good grief!!! These people just supposedly had a child snatched from right under their noses! They don't know who did it or for what purpose. For all they know, the kidnapper/molester/killer..whatever, could be lying in wait for an opportunity to grab two other adorable children...and yet, they leave the twins in the care of strangers. This isn't having Aunt Sally or your best friend across the street look after your children - it's dumping them every day with strangers, in a strange town while you play tourist or international ambassador.

I'm sorry - but those actions are just weird to me.

And then there's Jerry's blogging. Criminy! My now 25 year old son was late coming home on the night of his 17th birthday. He knew we were having a big family celebration and it wasn't like him at all to not call when he was going to be late. I was absolutely beside myself. In between calling local hospitals, I was literally pacing through my house, muttering and crying over and over things like, "Please God, let him be OK. Please God let him be alive. Please God let him be OK." My daughter can testify to what a complete and utter basket case I was.

Normally, I like to write. I keep two different blogs online myself. But trust me, in those hours before my son came home, I couldn't have thought a complete sentence, much less written one down.

Gerry and Kate McCann have NEVER appeared to show any true distraught emotions regarding the fact that their beautiful little girl was missing.

While I don't know the exact scenario of what happened to Maddie, I have a strong intuition that Gerry and Kate are responsible for Maddie's death. While I'm sure they loved her, I think their actions since her disappearance seem to show two people who have disassociated the events of that night and now have no emotional affect in regards to Maddie's probable death and their role in snuffing out the life of their precious little girl.

Truthfully, I can't even stomach looking or listening to either of the McCanns. I just hope and pray PLE has plenty of hard evidence against the two of them.

[kazzbar]

I saw shades of Patsy and John Ramsay in the way they behaved.From the start I suspected them both as I believe parents are always the first suspects in the line and then friends etc...pooling out from the parents.
I have always thought that leaving 3 youngsters whilst boozing with friends was just despicable and showed off their true colours. There is something wrong with those two IMO...
I also always thought Maddie was dead although I had hoped I was wrong and that she would return home safely.

[STEADFAST]

I've got to go against the tide and say I don't think it's probable that the parents are involved. I don't think they're very good parents, and I think they are kind of strange people, but I also don't think there's any convincing evidence that one or both of them killed Madeleine accidentally or otherwise. All I see is rumor and speculation and conflicting reports about what has or hasn't happened.

[Rino]

While I realize every person is different and we don't all have the same reactions to traumatic events, I think the McCanns behavior has fallen waaay out of any normal parameters for grieving/distraught parents.

The biggest thing I have trouble getting past is the way they let their other two babies go off to the creche every day without them AFTER Maddie's disappearance.

Good grief!!! These people just supposedly had a child snatched from right under their noses! They don't know who did it or for what purpose. For all they know, the kidnapper/molester/killer..whatever, could be lying in wait for an opportunity to grab two other adorable children...and yet, they leave the twins in the care of strangers. This isn't having Aunt Sally or your best friend across the street look after your children - it's dumping them every day with strangers, in a strange town while you play tourist or international ambassador.

I'm sorry - but those actions are just weird to me.
.
Good points. Their behavior, like the Ramseys, indicates they know there is no danger to the other kids. I wonder how the other parents of the Tapas 7 and in the resort in general handled their children in the aftermath of her being reported missing.

[april4sky]

All I see is rumor and speculation and conflicting reports about what has or hasn't happened.

I completely agree. We have yet to hear any official evidence.

[joeskidbeck]

I see this as another JonBenet ... and I think the mother is guilty in both cases, even if it was misplaced anger than led to an accident.


I agree totally, except, in this instance, I think the elaborate cover up is from the father. In the videos that I've seen, her body language towards him speaks volumes. I hope their money doesn't buy them a get out of jail free card.

[Cypros]

I see this as another JonBenet ... and I think the mother is guilty in both cases, even if it was misplaced anger than led to an accident.

I also see this as another JonBenet-type case. The evidence has led to the parents as the primary suspects. BUT was it the mother or the father who actually killed the child? Neither of them will confess or implicate the other. It is therefore an unsolvable case because there is no way to know which person to charge. Unless one of them breaks, they will live out their lives as "suspects".

[Barnaby]

I have a feeling that one of the Tapas friends knows what happened, this may be the weakest link but I doubt it somehow.

[PagingDrDetect]

I also see this as another JonBenet-type case. The evidence has led to the parents as the primary suspects. BUT was it the mother or the father who actually killed the child? Neither of them will confess or implicate the other. It is therefore an unsolvable case because there is no way to know which person to charge. Unless one of them breaks, they will live out their lives as "suspects".

Where I agree that there is much similar to the Ramseys in terms of the behavior of the parents, this case hasn't panned out like the Ramsey case at all. The PJ has tapped their phones and had them under 24 hour surveilence since the Brits entered the picture to assist. It's been reported that the evidence they've gathered through the tapping of the phones and emails is as strong as the forensic evidence.

"A dossier of covert electronic and physical evidence coupled with forensic reports led to the McCanns both being labelled suspects."

More: http://www.people.co.uk/news/news/t...-name_page.html (http://www.people.co.uk/news/news/tm_method=full%26objectID=19758723%26siteID=93463-name_page.html)

In the Ramsey case LE was thwarted from even getting any phone bill logs from the phone company. In this case, they've been able to tap the phones, have 24 hour surveilence for weeks, examine the computers... I think they do know which parent is the one to go after and which one has just been part of the cover up.

[Cypros]

Where I agree that there is much similar to the Ramseys in terms of the behavior of the parents, this case hasn't panned out like the Ramsey case at all. The PJ has tapped their phones and had them under 24 hour surveilence since the Brits entered the picture to assist. It's been reported that the evidence they've gathered through the tapping of the phones and emails is as strong as the forensic evidence.

"A dossier of covert electronic and physical evidence coupled with forensic reports led to the McCanns both being labelled suspects."

More: http://www.people.co.uk/news/news/t...-name_page.html (http://www.people.co.uk/news/news/tm_method=full%26objectID=19758723%26siteID=93463-name_page.html)

In the Ramsey case LE was thwarted from even getting any phone bill logs from the phone company. In this case, they've been able to tap the phones, have 24 hour surveilence for weeks, examine the computers... I think they do know which parent is the one to go after and which one has just been part of the cover up.



If the LE has been able to acquire electronic evidence (ie., tapes of the McCanns discussing their guilt) then that would certainly make a difference in the outcome of this case.

[CaliKid]

The way I read this case, the McCanns have convicted themselves with discussing Madeleine's demise with each other as well as their Tapas friends up until they realized they were being bugged. Hence, the frequent jogging and visits to the church to speak in private.

[Kim Ii]

Well, I've been able to read through several threads and posts -- all I can say is, I am shocked. I'm not a naive person, but not having spent too much time reading up on this case, admittedly I didn't know very much, other than a few fleeting tidbits.

I NEVER understood why these children were left alone when their parents were out to dinner. These are upper-middle class people -- they're physicians -- surely they could have afforded a babysitter/nanny when they wanted some alone time, so the 'leaving the children alone, but we could still hear them' never made any sense to me.

Well, I'm not surprised. I just hope, if it IS the parents, they come clean and tell where Madeleine is. That little girl deserves a decent burial...

IF the parents are involved, and at this point, I think they are, nothing makes me angrier than knowing how much this couple literally preyed on others for sympathy. To have been involved in your own child's murder and (as with the Ramseys), seek help and financial assistance from caring strangers, is sociopathic behavior. I mean, I'd have some sympathy if this happened accidentally -- if there was a confession from one or both of the parents afterwards and it was found to be truly an accident...that I can accept.
But to cover this whole thing up, all the while knowing what happened, and gleaning public support, sympathy and $$ for a fund to 'help' you find your child...that's another thing.

And for crying out loud, who sedates their children at night? WHY were these children sedated?

[Texana]

The way I read this case, the McCanns have convicted themselves with discussing Madeleine's demise with each other as well as their Tapas friends up until they realized they were being bugged. Hence, the frequent jogging and visits to the church to speak in private.

I think that's entirely possible, too. Else why the leaks about the intercepted emails and phone calls?

[lollipop3]

Well, I've been able to read through several threads and posts -- all I can say is, I am shocked. I'm not a naive person, but not having spent too much time reading up on this case, admittedly I didn't know very much, other than a few fleeting tidbits.

I NEVER understood why these children were left alone when their parents were out to dinner. These are upper-middle class people -- they're physicians -- surely they could have afforded a babysitter/nanny when they wanted some alone time, so the 'leaving the children alone, but we could still hear them' never made any sense to me. . . .I agree totally.

[haypaula]

Well, Well, Well, this has been said right from the beginning here on WS by a lot of posters, maybe they should have read WS, could have saved a lot of time.

Could this be how LE believes Maddie died, i.e., an accidental overdose of painkiller?

[christine2448]

At this time I don't think the parents killed Maddie but I agree they've acted odd.

I have to ask, when did they have time to kill their child and hide her body?

Everyone is so focused on the night she was reported missing, thinking things through, this may have been mentioned, but I'm wondering if something happened BEFORE the dinner party, she was already dead and moved...then dinner (alibi maybe) and return, she's gone!

[Shazza]

Could this be how LE believes Maddie died, i.e., an accidental overdose of painkiller?
That is one of the theories they are investigating, but the LE havent released a statement about anything to do with the investigation thus far, only heard about it through the media and Gerry McCann said they sedated their children.

[haypaula]

That is one of the theories they are investigating, but the LE havent released a statement about anything to do with the investigation thus far, only heard about it through the media and Gerry McCann said they sedated their children.

Wasn't it said LE had immediately removed the twins from the room when they reported Maddie missing? I wonder if LE tested the twins and noted they were sedated, took tests which came back positive for the presence of those painkillers, then recently confronted the McCanns with their findings? I ask because, IIRC, didn't the McCanns previously deny medicating the children?

[Shazza]

Wasn't it said LE had immediately removed the twins from the room when they reported Maddie missing? I wonder if LE tested the twins and noted they were sedated, took tests which came back positive for the presence of those painkillers, then recently confronted the McCanns with their findings? I ask because, IIRC, didn't the McCanns previously deny medicating the children?
They did initially deny sedating their children, but then Gerry admitted that they did sedated the children, but investigation as to what is being kept under wraps.

[haypaula]

They did initially deny sedating their children, but then Gerry admitted that they did sedated the children, but investigation as to what is being kept under wraps.

Perhaps the lie about not medicating their children is what might have caused LE to suspect the McCanns, i.e., if they only admitted sedating them after being confronted with positive test results.

IMO

[Shazza]

Perhaps the lie about not medicating their children is what might have caused LE to suspect the McCanns, i.e., if they only admitted sedating them after being confronted with positive test results.

IMO
To tell you the truth haypaula I dont know what made Gerry McCann admit to sedating his children, as far as I know there were no tests done on the twins, but there were syringes found in their room.

[PattiAnn]

Everyone is so focused on the night she was reported missing, thinking things through, this may have been mentioned, but I'm wondering if something happened BEFORE the dinner party, she was already dead and moved...then dinner (alibi maybe) and return, she's gone!

I wondering exactly the same thing. Perhaps the parents had already "done something" to Madeleine well before dinner, and maybe dinner and the whole "checking on the kids every 15 minutes" thing was just a ruse.
I wonder if they so diligently checked on their children every 15 minutes during the previous evenings they spent at the restaurant, or was it only this one night for the benefit of any potential witnesses.

JMO

[haypaula]

To tell you the truth haypaula I dont know what made Gerry McCann admit to sedating his children, as far as I know there were no tests done on the twins, but there were syringes found in their room.

Thanks for your reply, Shazza!

The McCanns are doctors, so I don't think finding syringes in their room would be as questionable/odd if they weren't physicians. Something caused Gerry to admit to sedating the children or he would have admitted it from the start. The more I think about it, the more reasonable it seems that LE confronted them with proof the children had been sedated. I suspect that a urine analysis would detect the presence of the medication used.

IMO

[Shazza]

Thanks for your reply, Shazza!

The McCanns are doctors, so I don't think finding syringes in their room would be as questionable/odd if they weren't physicians. Something caused Gerry to admit to sedating the children or he would have admitted it from the start. The more I think about it, the more reasonable it seems that LE confronted them with proof the children had been sedated. I suspect that a urine analysis would detect the presence of the medication used.

IMO
The LE are not telling the media or the public anything, we are hearing a lot from the relatives of the McCanns or from newspapers, so until the P LE have a press conference or relate their information to the public, we just have to wait and see, but they obviously have some news and reports on the DNA tests. We will all find out in good time.

[LillyRush]

I had to vote 'other', as I'm honestly still undecided at this time. There seem to be various facts that could point one way or the other at this time. I did not realize there were so many other friends or fellow doctors on vacation with them. Interesting.

[Squishified]

Everyone is so focused on the night she was reported missing, thinking things through, this may have been mentioned, but I'm wondering if something happened BEFORE the dinner party, she was already dead and moved...then dinner (alibi maybe) and return, she's gone!
I've thought this as well.

[Texana]

I've thought this as well.

Yes, there's about a two hour window from when she was picked up from the creche and had supper, and when the McCanns showed up at the restaurant.

There's about a one hour window where no one is checking on her, from Gerry's last visit to Kate's. Less, if you allow for the time Jane Tanner is reportedly checking on her children in the same vicinity.

None of the other parents actually checking on children could testify they saw Maddie--I believe O'Brien saw the twins but wasn't sure about Maddie, and Oldfield only listened at the door and heard nothing. (reportedly, again.)

[2sisters]

I think they were both involved b/c I think her death stemmed from the neglect that night. I do not think they intended for her to die or even get hurt that night, I think they regret it , but not enough to come forward.

[AfterMidnight]

Me too. I immediately thought of Scott telling Sharon, "Laci's missing."

Interesting point. Perhaps the dead give-away is the opening sentence. Maybe we should go back and check a few more convicted killers and see what they first said.

[Barnaby]

Poll results are amazing with so many people saying they suspected it from the start!

[sleuthin4fun]

All along I have been suspicios of Maddies parents. I really believe that Maddie was harmed by them in some way but, I do not believe that the act itself it was intentional but, I do believe that they made a conscious effort to cover it up . I have had these feelings from the very beginning. That being said though something about this has really hit me as I sit here this evening reading through these threads. I pray with all my heart that they are not involved. I look at pictures of a beautiful smiling Maddie and I can't imagine anyone harming her , especially her parents. Anyone who has small children or who has been around small children know how loving and trusting they are. Yes they can be a handful at times. The adults in their lives though are their world. Daddy is their hero. Mommy is a princess. They love them unconditionally even when they make mistakes. A parent can never be loved and trusted as much as they are by a little child. When I think of this and, I think of what may have happened to Maddie it saddens me deep in my heart. I wonder to my self did Maddie know? Did she look up before she died (if that is the case) and see either Kate or Gerry and think but "your my mommy", "your my daddy." My heart is aching.

[Salem]

All along I have been suspicios of Maddies parents. I really believe that Maddie was harmed by them in some way but, I do not believe that the act itself it was intentional but, I do believe that they made a conscious effort to cover it up . I have had these feelings from the very beginning. That being said though something about this has really hit me as I sit here this evening reading through these threads. I pray with all my heart that they are not involved. I look at pictures of a beautiful smiling Maddie and I can't imagine anyone harming her , especially her parents. Anyone who has small children or who has been around small children know how loving and trusting they are. Yes they can be a handful at times. The adults in their lives though are their world. Daddy is their hero. Mommy is a princess. They love them unconditionally even when they make mistakes. A parent can never be loved and trusted as much as they are by a little child. When I think of this and, I think of what may have happened to Maddie it saddens me deep in my heart. I wonder to my self did Maddie know? Did she look up before she died (if that is the case) and see either Kate or Gerry and think but "your my mommy", "your my daddy." My heart is aching.

Ohhhhh Sleuthin4fun :blowkiss:

I know..... makes my heart hurt. I'm with you and hoping against hope that all the things I have written will turn out to be wrong and I will have to eat that crow pie. :( :( :(

Salem

[ceeaura]

All along I have been suspicios of Maddies parents. I really believe that Maddie was harmed by them in some way but, I do not believe that the act itself it was intentional but, I do believe that they made a conscious effort to cover it up . I have had these feelings from the very beginning. That being said though something about this has really hit me as I sit here this evening reading through these threads. I pray with all my heart that they are not involved. I look at pictures of a beautiful smiling Maddie and I can't imagine anyone harming her , especially her parents. Anyone who has small children or who has been around small children know how loving and trusting they are. Yes they can be a handful at times. The adults in their lives though are their world. Daddy is their hero. Mommy is a princess. They love them unconditionally even when they make mistakes. A parent can never be loved and trusted as much as they are by a little child. When I think of this and, I think of what may have happened to Maddie it saddens me deep in my heart. I wonder to my self did Maddie know? Did she look up before she died (if that is the case) and see either Kate or Gerry and think but "your my mommy", "your my daddy." My heart is aching.

:(
Well said sleuthin4fun.You summed up the way I feel very well.
Now I am off to find more tissues.

[Barnaby]

All along I have been suspicios of Maddies parents. I really believe that Maddie was harmed by them in some way but, I do not believe that the act itself it was intentional but, I do believe that they made a conscious effort to cover it up . I have had these feelings from the very beginning. That being said though something about this has really hit me as I sit here this evening reading through these threads. I pray with all my heart that they are not involved. I look at pictures of a beautiful smiling Maddie and I can't imagine anyone harming her , especially her parents. Anyone who has small children or who has been around small children know how loving and trusting they are. Yes they can be a handful at times. The adults in their lives though are their world. Daddy is their hero. Mommy is a princess. They love them unconditionally even when they make mistakes. A parent can never be loved and trusted as much as they are by a little child. When I think of this and, I think of what may have happened to Maddie it saddens me deep in my heart. I wonder to my self did Maddie know? Did she look up before she died (if that is the case) and see either Kate or Gerry and think but "your my mommy", "your my daddy." My heart is aching.

Such a heart rending post. Oh God it makes me so sad to think what this little girl suffered, I hope that she didn't know anything & that soon she can be given a Christian burial.
I don't want to sound harsh but better this little girl at peace than with filthy paedophiles

[Siren]

I don't know WHAT happend to Maddie but I do know WHO was responsible. Her parents are the direct cause of whatever happened to Madeline. If I hear her Dad say, "luvly madlin" again, I'm going to scream! He's like a broken record! There's too much control of their emotions, too much manipulation of the media, too much arrogance from the McCanns. They are playing the media thinking they can outsmart everyone (they're both doctors and this type of arrogance almost a gold standard as a personality trait). The parents are responsible for the death of Madeline McCann. It is only a matter of time that the world is "shocked" to discover the syndrome of abuse that stems from parents who spend their lives developing their own lives and allow their children to be raised by nannies. It will be another "shocker" of our modern life. The poor McCanns, they were pursuing the dream of career AND family. They only wanted a holiday! (And then convice me that it was OK to spend only one hour a day with their three children and then drug them to sleep so that they could go our with nine friends and enjoy 14 bottles of wine whilst Madeline disappeared.) This is just an example of people who have children which are then raised by non-family caretakers whilst the parents pursue their careers. There's a lack of emotional attachment, motherly love, parental involvement with the McCann children that has lead to Maddie's death.

[Barnaby]

^^^^

ITA Siren

[sleuthin4fun]

Such a heart rending post. Oh God it makes me so sad to think what this little girl suffered, I hope that she didn't know anything & that soon she can be given a Christian burial.
I don't want to sound harsh but better this little girl at peace than with filthy paedophiles


I am glad there are others who understand what I am saying. This is just gut wrenchingly awful!!!!!! I would really love to be wrong in this honestly I would. If that is the case I myself will write an apology to the McCanns. I just don't think there will be the need to do that.
With regards to your last sentence it is by far better that Maddie be dancing in heaven that be harmed by the hands of a paedophile. That is the only thing that gives me peace in this situation.

[sleuthin4fun]

I don't know WHAT happend to Maddie but I do know WHO was responsible. Her parents are the direct cause of whatever happened to Madeline. If I hear her Dad say, "luvly madlin" again, I'm going to scream! He's like a broken record! There's too much control of their emotions, too much manipulation of the media, too much arrogance from the McCanns. They are playing the media thinking they can outsmart everyone (they're both doctors and this type of arrogance almost a gold standard as a personality trait). The parents are responsible for the death of Madeline McCann. It is only a matter of time that the world is "shocked" to discover the syndrome of abuse that stems from parents who spend their lives developing their own lives and allow their children to be raised by nannies. It will be another "shocker" of our modern life. The poor McCanns, they were pursuing the dream of career AND family. They only wanted a holiday! (And then convice me that it was OK to spend only one hour a day with their three children and then drug them to sleep so that they could go our with nine friends and enjoy 14 bottles of wine whilst Madeline disappeared.) This is just an example of people who have children which are then raised by non-family caretakers whilst the parents pursue their careers. There's a lack of emotional attachment, motherly love, parental involvement with the McCann children that has lead to Maddie's death.


OH how I agree with you. I have so much more that I could add to what you have said but won't. You are right on!!!!!

[dingo]

They showed an interview done with the McCanns on tv here last night and neither parent could look directly at the camera.....they had hold of a twin each and it looked like they were using the twins as a shield and something to hide behind.
Gerry also had to read from a piece of paper as he described how much they loved their missing daughter.......this little bit of footage has convinced me that they are guilty.

[Straitfan]

On Greta tonight one of the guest stated several parents attending had left their children in the rooms?! Also that this is "something" more acceptable in Europe..

I am usually all for guilty, guilty.. not feeling it here. Maybe if I knew more about the parents background.. It strikes me really odd they would wait this long to suspect the parents but then it is another country so we cant assume they act the same as what we are used to here in the US. I just hope it doesnt became another unsolved mystery, I would love to hear this precious child was still alive. Too much doesnt make sense, not just the parents but other parts of the story as well.

[Straitfan]

Dingo,

I saw the interview tonight but didnt get the same feeling or perspective you did. Guess I was viewing more along the lines of the overwhelming emtions a parent would feel if their child was gone and they were accused.. The mom looked extremely sleep deprived to me as I would be if my child were missing.. Not saying I think they did or didnt do something, my lil hinky meter still isnt feeling it though.

[Straitfan]

Just curious,

For those who feel without a doubt the parents are involved, just curious as your opinions regarding Ed Smart total backing and support of the parents? From a parent who has been through a similar situation, he would know, I'm guessing, better than most as to what goes on behind the scene. I respect Mr Smart's opinion more so than "leaked, un-verified" media info.

[BirdieBoo]

I wondering exactly the same thing. Perhaps the parents had already "done something" to Madeleine well before dinner, and maybe dinner and the whole "checking on the kids every 15 minutes" thing was just a ruse.
I wonder if they so diligently checked on their children every 15 minutes during the previous evenings they spent at the restaurant, or was it only this one night for the benefit of any potential witnesses.

JMO


That is what I have thought too, with the addition of the thought that maybe they drugged the twins so that their memories would be fuzzy and so that they would be out of the parents way while they tended to the coverup.

[Salem]

Just curious,

For those who feel without a doubt the parents are involved, just curious as your opinions regarding Ed Smart total backing and support of the parents? From a parent who has been through a similar situation, he would know, I'm guessing, better than most as to what goes on behind the scene. I respect Mr Smart's opinion more so than "leaked, un-verified" media info.

Straitfan - where did you see Mr. Smart's comments? I heard that he and Mr. Walsh both made comments, but I have seen neither and don't find anything in the media links.

I would be very interested in what they have to say because both men have been in this position.

Thanks,

Salem

[BirdieBoo]

Just curious,

For those who feel without a doubt the parents are involved, just curious as your opinions regarding Ed Smart total backing and support of the parents? From a parent who has been through a similar situation, he would know, I'm guessing, better than most as to what goes on behind the scene. I respect Mr Smart's opinion more so than "leaked, un-verified" media info.

I don't feel "without a doubt" that the parents are involved, but things are pointing that way for me. And I think the fact that they left 3 toddlers alone so they could go drinking and partying with their friends, is not unverified information and is also generally not accepted as good parenting behavior. Ed Smart being asleep in his bed when Elizabeth was abducted, was the normal and appropriate behavior for that situation.

But, I do feel that Mr. Smart is entitled to his opinion just as much as anyone else here is.

[Straitfan]

Straitfan - where did you see Mr. Smart's comments? I heard that he and Mr. Walsh both made comments, but I have seen neither and don't find anything in the media links.

I would be very interested in what they have to say because both men have been in this position.

Thanks,

Salem
Hi Salem,

Mr Smart was on LKL tonight, he stated he speaks with the parents via phone, etc. I did see Mr Walsh for a brief moment on some show over the week-end but did not hear his thoughts.

[txsvicki]

I haven't followed this closely until lately but couldn't help notice how well the mother is put together with her hairdos, jewelry, and clothing. You'd think that she'd be looking like crap at the thought that her daugther could be with a pedophile. I thought she looked like a big drinker even before I read about the 14 bottles of wine because of her skin. Some little things like this plus the dad posting about it all online make me really suspicious of the two.

[philamena]

txsvicki,
I've seen pictures of the mother where she looked terrible. She definitely looked tired, distraught and concerned. I'm still waiting to hear solid evidence against the parents before I make a decision one way or the other about the parent's involvement.

The below link leads to a picture of Kate looking very tired and worried imo.

http://www.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/285x214/7713_1.jpg

[kazzbar]

Wire taps were mentioned on Greta. That is very interesting and could be why the parents are now the main suspects in the case.

[poco]

txsvicki,
I've seen pictures of the mother where she looked terrible. She definitely looked tired, distraught and concerned. I'm still waiting to hear solid evidence against the parents before I make a decision one way or the other about the parent's involvement.

The below link leads to a picture of Kate looking very tired and worried imo.

http://www.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/285x214/7713_1.jpg


or scared...... Either way, whether she was involved or not, I am sure she would still be an emotional wreck.

I am still on the fence, like you, tx --- nothing real concrete has been presented to make me fall off the fence at this point. I'm in a wait and see position right now. I NEED MORE FACTS!!!!

[gord]

newbie poster here

My own gut feeling is that the parents are guilty of nothing more than leaving their kid alone at night - I just dont buy the various murder theories

Unless they are both the coldest most calculating pyscopaths out there , then I just cant see how they could have murdered the daughter - even accidently then manage to keep the body hidden for 3 weeks - with half of portugese police with dogs on the look out for this - then manage to move the decomposed body into a hire car - I am sorry it just doesnt seem possible

They would have made a mistake somwhere along the line - you just cant make a bodie dissapear

[Shazza]

newbie poster here

My own gut feeling is that the parents are guilty of nothing more than leaving their kid alone at night - I just dont buy the various murder theories

Unless they are both the coldest most calculating pyscopaths out there , then I just cant see how they could have murdered the daughter - even accidently then manage to keep the body hidden for 3 weeks - with half of portugese police with dogs on the look out for this - then manage to move the decomposed body into a hire car - I am sorry it just doesnt seem possible

They would have made a mistake somwhere along the line - you just cant make a bodie dissapear
Hi gord and welcome, have you read all the information posted here in this forum and all the links, there are so many inconsistencies in the McCanns and their friends stories, you would be a blind person not to see that something isnt right. I respect your opinion gord, just hope you have read all the information, if you have then I apologise. I would like to know why you dont think the McCanns have anything to do with Madelaines disappearance.

[gord]

Hi gord and welcome, have you read all the information posted here in this forum and all the links, there are so many inconsistencies in the McCanns and their friends stories, you would be a blind person not to see that something isnt right. I respect your opinion gord, just hope you have read all the information, if you have then I apologise. I would like to know why you dont think the McCanns have anything to do with Madelaines disappearance.

I have read a lot of the threads here - hence why I registered so I could contribute

In any case I suppose there will always be many theories and opinions and all we can have is our opinion until proved otherwise

There are lots of reasons why I dont think they did it - where is the body ? I cant see how in the midst of holiday makers a strange area that they managed to keep a dead body hidden - the Police had blood hounds out . If she was thrown in the sea then the tides would surely have brought it back .

The DNA thing in the hire car makes it even more puzziling - where on earth would the body have been hidden for three weeks ? If she had indeed been place in the trunk.

Until I see cast iron evidence either way then I am erring on the side of the original abduction theory

[Shazza]

I have read a lot of the threads here - hence why I registered so I could contribute

In any case I suppose there will always be many theories and opinions and all we can have is our opinion until proved otherwise

There are lots of reasons why I dont think they did it - where is the body ? I cant see how in the midst of holiday makers a strange area that they managed to keep a dead body hidden - the Police had blood hounds out . If she was thrown in the sea then the tides would surely have brought it back .

The DNA thing in the hire car makes it even more puzziling - where on earth would the body have been hidden for three weeks ? If she had indeed been place in the trunk.

Until I see cast iron evidence either way then I am erring on the side of the original abduction theory
There are a lot of unanswered questions for and against the McCanns, lets hope the truth comes out for Madelaines sake, so if she has passed away she can be laid to rest, the thought of that little girl out there somewhere is breaking my heart.

[BethyC]

After years of trying to have a baby -- and requiring IVF to finally accomplish that -- I sincerely doubt that Kate & Gerry would off their own, spectacular angel Madeleine, via accident or intention.

No way.

[BirdieBoo]

After years of trying to have a baby -- and requiring IVF to finally accomplish that -- I sincerely doubt that Kate & Gerry would off their own, spectacular angel Madeleine, via accident or intention.

No way.

How can you say they wouldn't have possibly done it by accident? The very nature of an accident means that one cannot determine what happens.

[KR2tonenow]

I don't know WHAT happend to Maddie but I do know WHO was responsible. Her parents are the direct cause of whatever happened to Madeline. If I hear her Dad say, "luvly madlin" again, I'm going to scream! He's like a broken record! There's too much control of their emotions, too much manipulation of the media, too much arrogance from the McCanns. They are playing the media thinking they can outsmart everyone (they're both doctors and this type of arrogance almost a gold standard as a personality trait). The parents are responsible for the death of Madeline McCann. It is only a matter of time that the world is "shocked" to discover the syndrome of abuse that stems from parents who spend their lives developing their own lives and allow their children to be raised by nannies. It will be another "shocker" of our modern life. The poor McCanns, they were pursuing the dream of career AND family. They only wanted a holiday! (And then convice me that it was OK to spend only one hour a day with their three children and then drug them to sleep so that they could go our with nine friends and enjoy 14 bottles of wine whilst Madeline disappeared.) This is just an example of people who have children which are then raised by non-family caretakers whilst the parents pursue their careers. There's a lack of emotional attachment, motherly love, parental involvement with the McCann children that has lead to Maddie's death.

Thank you for the spot on post!

[Rino]

The DNA thing in the hire car makes it even more puzziling - where on earth would the body have been hidden for three weeks ? If she had indeed been place in the trunk.

Until I see cast iron evidence either way then I am erring on the side of the original abduction theory

Playing devils advocate here....why then exclude the McCanns until cast iron evidence proves them innocent?

[KR2tonenow]

Just curious,

For those who feel without a doubt the parents are involved, just curious as your opinions regarding Ed Smart total backing and support of the parents? From a parent who has been through a similar situation, he would know, I'm guessing, better than most as to what goes on behind the scene. I respect Mr Smart's opinion more so than "leaked, un-verified" media info.

IMO, Mr. Smart was used as a political ploy to make the McCann's look good.

How does Ed Smart know they are innocent?

Just because they are "friends" doesn't make the McCanns any more likable to me. I wouldn't use my good name to back those 2.:snooty:
No one was moved by that on LK.

[sandraladeda]

After years of trying to have a baby -- and requiring IVF to finally accomplish that -- I sincerely doubt that Kate & Gerry would off their own, spectacular angel Madeleine, via accident or intention.

No way.
Yet they left the children alone?

[sandraladeda]

Straitfan - where did you see Mr. Smart's comments? I heard that he and Mr. Walsh both made comments, but I have seen neither and don't find anything in the media links.

I would be very interested in what they have to say because both men have been in this position.

Thanks,

Salem
I saw Walsh on, I believe, CNN on Thursday or Friday. His comments were, basically, the parents are innocent until proven guilty, and we cannot rush to judgement. He jumped to the example of the JonBenet Ramsey case, and his position that the police rushed to judgement in that case and focussed on the parents alone (I don't agree, this is one case where I think Walsh is out to lunch!)

Walsh's comments were, imo, useless.

[lollipop3]

I don't know who was involved in this tragic event, but it sure looks more and more like the parents are involved.

[englishleigh]

How can you say they wouldn't have possibly done it by accident? The very nature of an accident means that one cannot determine what happens.

Exactly, Birdie. Plus as Sandra says, they certainly had NO problem with leaving the kids all alone in a strange apartment in a foreign country while they went out to party.

[Texana]

Why would Mr. Smart be considered a kind of personal polygraph (which the McCanns have not taken or made public, by the way) about the McCanns? He's a nice man who I'm sure suffered terribly when his daughter was abducted.

I'm sure he also sympathizes with the understandable regret that the McCanns must be feeling, since he reportedly left his house unlocked and brought home street people to perform handyman chores out of a sense of charity towards them. One of them kidnapped his daughter, which tells me that Mr. Smart is not necessarily the best judge of character, as nice and kind as he is.

My impression of Mr. Smart is that he is, above all, a man who trusts his fellow human beings and wants to believe the best of them. It's nice that in his line of work, unlike police detectives, he has the luxury of continuing to believe that way.

[concernedperson]

Why would Mr. Smart be considered a kind of personal polygraph (which the McCanns have not taken or made public, by the way) about the McCanns? He's a nice man who I'm sure suffered terribly when his daughter was abducted.

I'm sure he also sympathizes with the understandable regret that the McCanns must be feeling, since he reportedly left his house unlocked and brought home street people as handymen out of a since of charity towards them, and one of them eventually kidnapped his daughter.

My impression of Mr. Smart is that he is, above all, a man who trusts his fellow human beings and wants to believe the best of them. It's nice that in his line of work, unlike police detectives, he has the luxury of continuing to believe that way.

Very good analogy. I hadn't thought of that but yes, a parent who had a misnomer would be apologetic to that discrepancy. The grief accompanying a mistake would carry you a long way into why you weren't being a better parent. Then, you might try to disolve that misnomer in another case. Not saying that this is the incident but it could be.

[CaliKid]

Gerry McCann, for all his weird behavior, could come across as quite credible and sincere to others. I have no doubt he charmed his way into John Walsh's good graces and Ed Smart's too.

[sleuthin4fun]

Why would Mr. Smart be considered a kind of personal polygraph (which the McCanns have not taken or made public, by the way) about the McCanns? He's a nice man who I'm sure suffered terribly when his daughter was abducted.

I'm sure he also sympathizes with the understandable regret that the McCanns must be feeling, since he reportedly left his house unlocked and brought home street people to perform handyman chores out of a sense of charity towards them. One of them kidnapped his daughter, which tells me that Mr. Smart is not necessarily the best judge of character, as nice and kind as he is.

My impression of Mr. Smart is that he is, above all, a man who trusts his fellow human beings and wants to believe the best of them. It's nice that in his line of work, unlike police detectives, he has the luxury of continuing to believe that way.

Texana- This is exactly how I feel about Ed Smart. I think he is a nice man and by nature is very trusting and sees the best in everyone. I don't think he wasnts to believe that they could have done this. Nice man but, I think he's a bit naieve even after all he has been through with Elizabeth.

[englishleigh]

Gerry McCann, for all his weird behavior, could come across as quite credible and sincere to others. I have no doubt he charmed his way into John Walsh's good graces and Ed Smart's too.

A'la Scooter Peterson the Charmer?? :doh:

[Texana]

A'la Scooter Peterson the Charmer?? :doh:

The same one. People liked him, too.

[kazzbar]

I don't know WHAT happend to Maddie but I do know WHO was responsible. Her parents are the direct cause of whatever happened to Madeline. If I hear her Dad say, "luvly madlin" again, I'm going to scream! He's like a broken record! There's too much control of their emotions, too much manipulation of the media, too much arrogance from the McCanns. They are playing the media thinking they can outsmart everyone (they're both doctors and this type of arrogance almost a gold standard as a personality trait). The parents are responsible for the death of Madeline McCann. It is only a matter of time that the world is "shocked" to discover the syndrome of abuse that stems from parents who spend their lives developing their own lives and allow their children to be raised by nannies. It will be another "shocker" of our modern life. The poor McCanns, they were pursuing the dream of career AND family. They only wanted a holiday! (And then convice me that it was OK to spend only one hour a day with their three children and then drug them to sleep so that they could go our with nine friends and enjoy 14 bottles of wine whilst Madeline disappeared.) This is just an example of people who have children which are then raised by non-family caretakers whilst the parents pursue their careers. There's a lack of emotional attachment, motherly love, parental involvement with the McCann children that has lead to Maddie's death.Excellent post ..I agree with you.

[CaliKid]

My intentions are not to shove my opinion down anyone's throat. But I would like to list what bugs me about the parents.

1. Leaving the children alone is an obvious first.

Why did the McCanns take their children to Portugal in the first place if all they were going to do was stick them in childcare all day and go out drinking by themselves at night? Why not use a nanny or a relative to care for the kids back in the UK so they could have some time for themselves if that's what they wanted? Or was going to Portugal as a family like the rest of their buddies (and not looking selfish) more important?

They went out with friends every night. But "the parents say that they were justified in doing so because they felt that they ‘also needed a holiday’".

http://functionpix.com/index.php/article/Madeleine_McCann_Cracker_detectives_in_too_late_sa y_police/1543/

Mrs. Fenn said one of the children cried for 75 minutes two nights before Madeleine disappeared, and the staff warned the McCanns about leaving the children alone. They did it again anyway, and we all have heard the results- Maddie is gone.

2. Why were the McCanns so positive she'd been kidnapped to the point of insisting it was the only reality? Madeleine had already wandered away from the apartment and hid on one occasion. How could the McCanns be so sure she hadn't wandered away again, especially since it appears the friends weren't doing such a great job of checking the kids. And there are discrepancies about the Cuddle Cat issue from Kate's own mouth.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1673666&postcount=78
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1673727&postcount=79

3. I will agree that the distance between the Tapas bar and who checked the children when could as easily be a butt-saving excuse for their leaving-the-kids-alone neglect, so I won't use it here. Let's just say they made excuses for their behavior and kept changing the story over and over.

But we've heard how Jane Tanner claims she saw someone walking away from the apartment that night carrying something in a blanket. Weeks later (after Murat was named an arguido) she modified her statement into "Murat was carrying Madeleine". And we have another eyewitness- Jeremy Wilkins who was chatting up Gerry McCann at the same time JT claims she saw the man- who not only didn't see the stranger, but didn't see JT either. Why did the parents' friends make stuff up and change their stories to fit the subject? Why were the McCanns so desperate to indict someone who appears to have had no part in her disappearance?

4. For two people who were positive that their daughter had been kidnapped, why has the information about Madeleine been so vague? The McCanns insist that she was taken out of the country to various places- Morocco, the Netherlands, etc. So why were the missing Maddie posters only in two languages- English and Portuguese? Why not Dutch or Arabic? Why did the website not contain any physical description of her- hair color, height, weight? Why were logical suggestions by random strangers who wanted to help find Madeleine (and posted to the website e-mail) denigrated by the McCanns and their family? Why did the McCanns ignore help that was offered for free to help look for her?

http://ionglobaltrends.blogspot.com/2007/08/once-twice-three-times-team-mccann.html

5. People have said stuff like, the police told the McCanns not to cry because it's what the kidnapper wants to see, and that's why they appear so cold and detached. IMO, true emotions aren't something you can turn off and on. If you're desperately worried that your tiny toddler daughter might be in the hands of a pedophile who is raping her or may have killed her, you are not going to be able to hide that fear. You will not be relaxed, smiling and waving at photo ops two weeks later. You will not be going on shopping sprees and worrying about jogging, haircuts and suntans. You will either completely fall apart or look as if you're going to.

And as far as having to keep a stiff upper lip for your remaining two children, it's BS. With the exception of a very rare day, the McCanns had a steady flow of family members coming and going into Portugal. Sean and Amelie spent almost every day at the resort creche.

And why does Gerry's blog talk so little about Madeleine herself? Why in almost every interview the McCanns have done, when given an opportunity to say something directly to their daughter, does Kate say, "Madeleine knows we love her"? And not in a warm, caring voice either.

She isn't talking to her directly. She isn't saying, "Honey, we love you and are looking for you. We will find and save you." For all they know, if Madeleine was really kidnapped she was probably told her parents don't want her. So couldn't the McCanns try to counteract that claim through a direct appeal of their own in hopes she'd see it? I'll tell you, if I was an abducted child and saw my parents respond like Kate did, I wouldn't feel loved or wanted.

6. I'm no expert on body language, but the video interviews of the parents are sickening to watch. They say that people who lie can't look directly into your face- they gaze around, etc. That's exactly what the McCanns do in their interviews. When asked difficult questions, they ignore them or change the subject. It's all about them and trying to convince the world they did nothing wrong, not fi