Fencesitters & Not Guilty Post Here

[KOOL LOOK]

At this point and time, I firmly believe the Mccanns are guilty of killing and disposing of Maddie's body somewhere in Portugal. Although I've not kept up with this case as some others and don't have all the facts straight, up to what I've read, seen in the media, McCanns own words and body language, has led me to my conclusions thus far. They could change at anytime, as the facts and evidence continues to unfold and shared with the public.


When I heard Ed Smart and John Walsh's interviews, I did feel on the fence for about an hour. Re-questioning my opinion and thoughts over and over in my head. Could they be railroaded? Could this be the authorities in a public or political move rush to bring this case to a new phase due to the Mccanns possibly preparing to leave tomorrow? Could it be based on good police investigation, forensics, interviews that has led to these new statuses as suspects for the parents? We've seen all these scenerios happen over and over again in the media with cases of missing persons. So relaly, it could be anything, do we have enough evidence so far to be 100% sure they are guilty of something?

Early on in the Laci Peterson case, most all of us knew within hours and the first few days of Scottie was guilty as sin. We didn't even have a whole lot of facts, interviews and evidence but we made our minds up quick. The story Scott gave in the beginning just never made sense at all, which is the primary fact us sleuthers based our opinions on. Same thing I think with JonBenet Ramsey. What the parents had to say just didn't jive with common sense to the normal joe of a person.

Buttt, Ed and John really keep an air of innocence in the midst of this mess. Why? Is it because their so credible as public people in our society? I think so. Ed just tore at my heart when he was speaking of the Mccanns, especially Kate and how they just couldn't possibly have harmed their child. Plus his point about not all the avenues have been utilitized in Maddies search like bringing in certain trained people to search for her. The Portugal police not allowing these highly qualified outsiders inside to help. It was a good point he made on CNN. John agreed with his outlook. I do too. John pointed out that not all the abduction theories were investigated to what he feels was a standard now used in most all cases. He also pointed out they didn't follow threw thoroughly concerning their investigation of Robert Murat,I had to agree with him again.

Not to mention, it is still hard to believe these parents, as Ed pointed out too, are doctors, if Maddy had accidently gotten sick or hurt, they naturally and intelligently would have sought care for her by taking her to a hospital and administring medical care themselves because of their profession. Another good point which tends to make me re-think my position.

So I'm now about 75% sure they have something to do with Maddy missing, and 25% uncertain. Another few factors is I feel if they did do this, they would of had to have done it prior to when their claiming she became missing, thus giving them time to move her. Toomuch media attention, no privacy outside their room in my opinion to move her away from the apartment after notifying the police.

The original timeline would have to be all together wrong. Which brings me to another belief of mine. I believe something happened to her prior to the time frame the Mccanns claim.

Their looks, body languages, all their interviews, not hardly any tears, just stress out looking, not enough pleading for her return, makes me think they did do it.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/welcome1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/indecision.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/judgeNG.jpg

[Brefie]

Question: wasn't there supposed to be a detective working on the Maddie case who 'cheated' (for want of a better word) a woman into being convicted in a similar case?
Anyone know what happened to that?

[Jdee]

At this point and time, I firmly believe the Mccanns are guilty of killing and disposing of Maddie's body somewhere in Portugal. Although I've not kept up with this case as some others and don't have all the facts straight, up to what I've read, seen in the media, McCanns own words and body language, has led me to my conclusions thus far. They could change at anytime, as the facts and evidence continues to unfold and shared with the public.


When I heard Ed Smart and John Walsh's interviews, I did feel on the fence for about an hour. Re-questioning my opinion and thoughts over and over in my head. Could they be railroaded? Could this be the authorities in a public or political move rush to bring this case to a new phase due to the Mccanns possibly preparing to leave tomorrow? Could it be based on good police investigation, forensics, interviews that has led to these new statuses as suspects for the parents? We've seen all these scenerios happen over and over again in the media with cases of missing persons. So relaly, it could be anything, do we have enough evidence so far to be 100% sure they are guilty of something?

Early on in the Laci Peterson case, most all of us knew within hours and the first few days of Scottie was guilty as sin. We didn't even have a whole lot of facts, interviews and evidence but we made our minds up quick. The story Scott gave in the beginning just never made sense at all, which is the primary fact us sleuthers based our opinions on. Same thing I think with JonBenet Ramsey. What the parents had to say just didn't jive with common sense to the normal joe of a person.

Buttt, Ed and John really keep an air of innocence in the midst of this mess. Why? Is it because their so credible as public people in our society? I think so. Ed just tore at my heart when he was speaking of the Mccanns, especially Kate and how they just couldn't possibly have harmed their child. Plus his point about not all the avenues have been utilitized in Maddies search like bringing in certain trained people to search for her. The Portugal police not allowing these highly qualified outsiders inside to help. It was a good point he made on CNN. John agreed with his outlook. I do too. John pointed out that not all the abduction theories were investigated to what he feels was a standard now used in most all cases. He also pointed out they didn't follow threw thoroughly concerning their investigation of Robert Murat,I had to agree with him again.

Not to mention, it is still hard to believe these parents, as Ed pointed out too, are doctors, if Maddy had accidently gotten sick or hurt, they naturally and intelligently would have sought care for her by taking her to a hospital and administring medical care themselves because of their profession. Another good point which tends to make me re-think my position.

So I'm now about 75% sure they have something to do with Maddy missing, and 25% uncertain. Another few factors is I feel if they did do this, they would of had to have done it prior to when their claiming she became missing, thus giving them time to move her. Toomuch media attention, no privacy outside their room in my opinion to move her away from the apartment after notifying the police.

The original timeline would have to be all together wrong. Which brings me to another belief of mine. I believe something happened to her prior to the time frame the Mccanns claim.

Their looks, body languages, all their interviews, not hardly any tears, just stress out looking, not enough pleading for her return, makes me think they did do it.

I'm on the fence.. I am falling to the guilty side though. I have tried very hard to keep an open mind from the very start and when I first came on the Madeleine thread (being the very FIRST thread here) I was totally pro McCann so you can imagine how hard it was for me to stay here and listen to the those against the McCann's. But as things begin to come to light I begin to agree with many posters. I do think they are crappy parents and I do think they are responsible for Madeleline's disapearance (and I can't stand Gerry), but I am still on the fence if they actually killed her. I have MANY reasons why I am not convinced yet. I am one to wait until all the evidence is in before I lay a verdict.

[Brefie]

I'm on the fence.. I am falling to the guilty side though. I have tried very hard to keep an open mind from the very start and when I first came on the Madeleine thread (being the very FIRST thread here) I was totally pro McCann so you can imagine how hard it was for me to stay here and listen to the those against the McCann's. But as things begin to come to light I begin to agree with many posters. I do think they are crappy parents and I do think they are responsible for Madeleline's disapearance (and I can't stand Gerry), but I am still on the fence if they actually killed her. I have MANY reasons why I am not convinced yet. I am one to wait until all the evidence is in before I lay a verdict.

I am with you 100%

[CarpeDiem]

Question: wasn't there supposed to be a detective working on the Maddie case who 'cheated' (for want of a better word) a woman into being convicted in a similar case?
Anyone know what happened to that?

I believe it was the chief and the woman was beaten.

[Brefie]

I believe it was the chief and the woman was beaten.

Is he working on this case? Hate to say it, but it would 'belittle' the new 'arguido' status for me.

[ceeaura]

I have read some where from posters who live there said that the woman was lying.That blood from her missing 8 yearold daughter was found in the fridge I believe.Supposedly mom killed her because the little girl caught mom and boyfriend.

Now this part I am not sure about but I think moms boyfriend might have been a relative:eek: :confused:

[KOOL LOOK]

Question: wasn't there supposed to be a detective working on the Maddie case who 'cheated' (for want of a better word) a woman into being convicted in a similar case?
Anyone know what happened to that?

Yes, don't know if he's on this case, I don't know any of the details, but a case is in question concerning similiar parental wrong doing. Maybe someone here can answer for ya.

[Brefie]

I have read some where from posters who live there said that the woman was lying.That blood from her missing 8 yearold daughter was found in the fridge I believe.Supposedly mom killed her because the little girl caught mom and boyfriend.

Now this part I am not sure about but I think moms boyfriend might have been a relative:eek: :confused:

:eek: :eek: :eek: what what what?? Holy moly.....I thought I heard from the girl's father who supported the mother? I'll have to go searching.

Don't suppose google will find anything for 'dude that worked on another botched case in Portugal'..but I'll try :)

[colomom]

:eek: :eek: :eek: what what what?? Holy moly.....I thought I heard from the girl's father who supported the mother? I'll have to go searching.

Don't suppose google will find anything for 'dude that worked on another botched case in Portugal'..but I'll try :)

Search for Joana Cipriano.....

[Brefie]

Search for Joana Cipriano.....

Thank you much! :)

[Olivia77]

In the beginning I thought the parents were negligent in leaving their kids alone, but I never suspected that they were guilty - though I don't think they are necessarily "likeable" people. I just didn't get that guilty vibe like I have with other cases. Now, in light of recent developments, I am firmly on the fence.

However, I have always believed that Madeleine was either killed that night or shortly thereafter. I just wasn't sure by whom. :(

Like many here, I'm anxiously awaiting a full list of the evidence.

[CaliKid]

I'm just throwing this out because I don't know if it's true.

Diario de Noticias is a Portuguese newspaper, and one of the biggest hurdles we here at WS have had over the past 4 months is trying to figure out what kind of media we're dealing with. So I don't know if the DN is a respected paper or a rag like the National Enquirer.

That said, I want to point out the according to the 9/08 issue of the DN, Gerry McCann has admitted to sedating Madeleine.

http://dn.sapo.pt/2007/09/08/sociedade/casal_cann_e_suspeito_morte_madelein.html

It's in Portuguese, but a translation of the 2nd paragraph says:

Kate is suspected of ‘homicide by negligence and hiding the body” ( the latter constitutes a sentence of upto two years in prison). A circumstance confirmed in principle by the spokesperson Justine McGuinness who said “ the portuguese police suspect Kate of having accidently killed her child”. However, sources connected to the inquiry have revealed that Gerry has admitted to the investigators he had administed a sedative to the children on the night of May 3rd. And one of the investigation lines followed at this moment is precisely, as the DN has gathered, the hypotheis that the child was sedated with an overdose of medication.

[philamena]

I'm not ready to hold the parents responsible yet. I just don't see them killing their daughter and hiding her body that night. From what I've read, there wasn't enough time. That being said, I do find some of the McCann 's actions suspecious. So few tears during interviews make me a little nervous and the visit with the Pope is huge red flag for me. Many devout, dedicated, loving Catholics have had family members go missing and zero to nil get a visit with the Pope.

Still, I need hard evidence for this one.

[BethInAK]

Until I hear more information about what evidence there really is, I'll leave mind open but I have always been very suspicious of the McCann's.

[Elizabethsmum]

I dont think they are guilty of anything more than bad judgement and that the Portuguese police are desperate to conclude.

[docwho3]

As most know I have always been willing to consider the parents as suspects as long as the case was looked at on its merits and was not just more anger posts about their having left the children behind unsupervised.

I also wanted and expected that many people that were around the missing little girl should also be looked at carefully and that as long as there was only one official suspect, due consideration also be given in that direction. It is what is proper to do.

I posted that the parents should not be accused by us here without some evidence and without being considered suspects by L.E. but now they ARE officially considered suspects by L.E. so speculation concerning them as perps is more proper in sleuthing the case.

I am still on the fence but I am quickly leaning towards the parents being guilty of some sort of crime. I now see how it could have happened and if I can see a single possibility I bet others can name 10 more ways I have not thought of.

Before I go on to post my thoughts on how it might have been done I note that L.E. can lie to suspects to induce a confession, claiming they have evidence which they may not in fact have. L.E. told the mccanns they have DNA evidence from the rental car etc but we have then heard it from the mcanns and not yet from L.E. (so far as I last read in news reports.) L.E. can't say anything to the public about the case according to their laws, so we have not heard the DNA stuff directly from them as far as I know. (I was gone from home most of the day today.)

Maybe, probably the DNA evidence is as we have been told from the mccanns but maybe not. We may have to await L.E. telling us these things to know for sure.

As to how it could have happened IF the parents were involved as it now appears:

If sedatives were involved it may not have been an overdose perse. It might have been too much to safely walk though and Madeleine might have fallen and broken her neck or may have smothered in bed without being able to function properly to stay safe. If the parents found her dead would they have put her body in the fridge and then hollered "they've taken her!" so that people all do a quick cursory room search and then search outside looking for Madeleine to be wandering lost or to be a captive but always looking anywhere but in the fridge of the apartment?
If so then the reason for the blood in the second apartment would need to be explained and I might have a way. How to move a body of a 3 year old and not have it look like a body. Maybe in a suitcase or maybe as cut up freezer packages or maybe as a body in a wheelie portable ice chest.
But blood specs in the second apartment and in the car would seem to come from a thawing body or body parts which were moved to the car and then maybe to a beach somewhere to be disposed of.

There is no nonrefrigeration way to account for a body being kept unspoiled for 25 days and then transported by car. It is too much a coincidence to think kidnappers got Madeleine and killed her and used that car to dump the body and then the parents rented it.

But remember- we do not KNOW that the alleged DNA evidence actually shows what it has been alleged to show.

I am still a fence sitter with an open mind but I easily see that evidence seems to point right at the parents as having done some sort of crime.
There is no way to not see that.

[poco]

I'm on the fence, but leaning slightly more towards they did it.

I am sickened by the thought (IF it is true) that they gave the children sedatives while they went out.

In any event, IF the children were given a sedative, it is possible that something happened because of that - an overdose, an allergic reaction - whatever, and when they got home she was already DEAD. The cover up begins - wouldn't look good for "drugs" to show up in a 3-year-old's system and the parents would probably no longer be able to afford long extended vacations to foreign countries. Obviously, any parent who would give their child a sedative while they went out, puts their own selfish pleasures above those of the welfare of their children's.

My other thought is -- their lack of emotion. Even IF this was truly an accident, you would think they would still be emotionally distraught over the incident (probably more for themselves though - "how could this happen to us"?). I always equate the lack of emotions (tears, etc) to intentional killings, not accidental ones.

I wonder if any questioning has been done of the other children - probably not.

[Edwards20]

I'm just throwing this out because I don't know if it's true.

Diario de Noticias is a Portuguese newspaper, and one of the biggest hurdles we here at WS have had over the past 4 months is trying to figure out what kind of media we're dealing with. So I don't know if the DN is a respected paper or a rag like the National Enquirer. I have wondered this about much of the media reports. I just watched a clip on the Today Show. The reporter/analyst just kept staying that the Tabloids were convicting these people.

The only thing I got out of the report was that there was transfer of Maddie's DNA to something in the trunk of that car. Was it blood ? The "family spokesperson" is the one stating the car was not rented until 25 days later. So, perhaps it was prior to this.

I suppose I feel like the devil's advocate here, but I am just not ready to believe that if they did something to her they could pull of this cover-up and have an audience with the Pope. I don't get a good feeling from the parent's, but that's not enough to convict them, in my opinion. Philamena, I am with you on this one. However, I will keep on open mind ... I just need more factual information and less circumstantial theories.

[april4sky]

I dont think they are guilty of anything more than bad judgement and that the Portuguese police are desperate to conclude.

This is how I feel too. Even though it doesn't sound too good for the McCanns right now.
I will not judge them on rumor.
We need to hear what evidence the PLE actually have.

The police have been playing a double game for some time now. Saying one thing in their official statements, while deliberately leaking other damaging "rumors" about the McCanns to the press...against their own laws.
I don't have a problem with this tactic if it works...and so long as the McCanns are actually guilty.

[Kezlyn]

I don't think they did it.

I think they sedated Madeleine and her siblings. Doesn't mean they killed her. Sad as it is, millions of parents sedate their kids. And with the McCann's being doctors, I'd be very surprised if they accidentally overdosed Madeleine. I know that happens too, but why would there be blood evidence from an accidental overdose? Some people do bleed and froth when they overdose, but I wouldn't expect it to get all over the place as it would during a more violent death.

I'd also like to know just when the McCann's supposedly disposed of Madeleine's body. As far as I know, from the moment Kate ran from the room, their whereabouts have always been known.

[Shazza]

I don't think they did it.

I think they sedated Madeleine and her siblings. Doesn't mean they killed her. Sad as it is, millions of parents sedate their kids. And with the McCann's being doctors, I'd be very surprised if they accidentally overdosed Madeleine. I know that happens too, but why would there be blood evidence from an accidental overdose? Some people do bleed and froth when they overdose, but I wouldn't expect it to get all over the place as it would during a more violent death.

I'd also like to know just when the McCann's supposedly disposed of Madeleine's body. As far as I know, from the moment Kate ran from the room, their whereabouts have always been known.
There was plenty of time before Kate yelled that someone had taken her, if you read in the other threads on this forum, you will see that Madelaine was last seen at the pool at 2.29pm but that could be false, the last siting of Madelaine alive is still unknown.

[Kezlyn]

Ok, fine. She killed her in the afternoon and then sat down to a nice tapas meal with her friends.

[Shazza]

Ok, fine. She killed her in the afternoon and then sat down to a nice tapas meal with her friends.
That is how it is looking thus so far.

[poco]

That is how it is looking thus so far.

Why is it SHE killed her and not HE???? and didn't other people besides the McCann's go check on the children during dinner - unless she was already dead and they had her tucked in bed... I would think that would be highly unlikely. Someone like me, overly concerned, would probably go up and make sure each of the children were breathing....

[guineveer]

I am not convinced yet either. Too much of what we "know" has been heresay, conjecture and third-hand gossip.

I can't decide guilt on the McCann's actions alone. I've never lost a child or been anywhere near their position, so I can't surmise how I myself would react. If the evidence proves they did it, I'll be devastated not only at the travesty of little Madeleine's life but also at the sheer lack of humanity it would take to pull this kind of coverup over the world.

[Columbo]

Hi, I read websleuths a lot but don't post too much.
I was stunned at all this because I never for one minute thought they were guilty. The only thing that nagged at my mind was the "blog" kept by Gerry McCann. The things he talked about seemed lacking in feeling and mundane--I wondered why would he talk about this kind of stuff in a blog about his missing daughter? The other thing was that Kate seemed so cold; I couldn't understand how she could be out jogging when her daughter was missing but I guessed that , after awhile, people have to try to restore some semblance of normality to their lives, and do something to help get rid of the stress.
Where did the talk about "drugging their children so they could party" come from? Is there any basis in reality for this idea?

[Beyond Belief]

I still have to stay on the fence until evidence is strong enough to knock me off.

[packerdog]

This is a very strange case to me. I have always thought, and still do think that the Ramsey's killed their daughter. In this case I didn't think from the very beginning that they had anything to do with the fate of their daughter. After hearing all the news I am stumped! The deal with their rental car having DNA in the trunk after 23 days really makes no sense to me. It very well could be transfer, but what kind? The timeline is also a big deal to me,that is pretty tight. Did one of the group go into the rental and see Madeleine? If indeed smeone other than the parents saw her sleeping that would be a problem for LE.

[mrsmousemat]

The deal with their rental car having DNA in the trunk after 23 days really makes no sense to me. It very well could be transfer, but what kind? The timeline is also a big deal to me,that is pretty tight. Did one of the group go into the rental and see Madeleine? If indeed smeone other than the parents saw her sleeping that would be a problem for LE.[/quote]

Apparently the DNA would be similar to her mother's, so it's not 100percent solid evidence. Also we don't know whether it is a minute spot or a huge area that was found.

Also the McCanns are pictured with the car on Sky news, with the pushchairs of the twins in the back.

Maybe the pushchairs crossed the floor of the apartment and picked up DNA.


AS to the sedatives - Gerry McCann may have admitted to giving the children Calpol - as Kate McCann's father said they gave Calpol to the children on his TV interview. You can buy it in any chemists shop without a prescription in the UK. It's a mild painkiller and sometimes used to calm down overtired children, who can't get to sleep.

Not saying they are innocent - just innocent until the evidence proves them guilty

[packerdog]

The deal with their rental car having DNA in the trunk after 23 days really makes no sense to me. It very well could be transfer, but what kind? The timeline is also a big deal to me,that is pretty tight. Did one of the group go into the rental and see Madeleine? If indeed smeone other than the parents saw her sleeping that would be a problem for LE.

Apparently the DNA would be similar to her mother's, so it's not 100percent solid evidence. Also we don't know whether it is a minute spot or a huge area that was found.

Also the McCanns are pictured with the car on Sky news, with the pushchairs of the twins in the back.

Maybe the pushchairs crossed the floor of the apartment and picked up DNA.


AS to the sedatives - Gerry McCann may have admitted to giving the children Calpol - as Kate McCann's father said they gave Calpol to the children on his TV interview. You can buy it in any chemists shop without a prescription in the UK. It's a mild painkiller and sometimes used to calm down overtired children, who can't get to sleep.

Not saying they are innocent - just innocent until the evidence proves them guilty[/QUOTE]

Thanks mrsmousemat. The transfer could have very well happened this way.

[delilah]

I'm not ready to hold the parents responsible yet. I just don't see them killing their daughter and hiding her body that night. From what I've read, there wasn't enough time. That being said, I do find some of the McCann 's actions suspecious. So few tears during interviews make me a little nervous and the visit with the Pope is huge red flag for me. Many devout, dedicated, loving Catholics have had family members go missing and zero to nil get a visit with the Pope.

Still, I need hard evidence for this one.

Are you implying the Pope is an accessory to the murder then? :eek:

[KOOL LOOK]

Hi, I read websleuths a lot but don't post too much.
I was stunned at all this because I never for one minute thought they were guilty. The only thing that nagged at my mind was the "blog" kept by Gerry McCann. The things he talked about seemed lacking in feeling and mundane--I wondered why would he talk about this kind of stuff in a blog about his missing daughter? The other thing was that Kate seemed so cold; I couldn't understand how she could be out jogging when her daughter was missing but I guessed that , after awhile, people have to try to restore some semblance of normality to their lives, and do something to help get rid of the stress.
Where did the talk about "drugging their children so they could party" come from? Is there any basis in reality for this idea?


:blowkiss: Hi Colombo, welcome and I feel so special you have posted on my thread. I've noticed, anyone else? That we have lots of new posters on this forum? Especially on this thread? This really grows websleuths and I encourage new members to please post and give your insight.

Now, the reason I pulled this post out also is this insight speaks volumes, I almost wept when I read it. Colombo, I don't know if you realize how profound your words are.

Believing in their innocence, not getting taken into all the media hype, sensationalism even reading here, and just being so objective. But your opinion on what's only made you consider their guilt is their very own website where Gerry is Blogging. Gerry's own words has caused many, not just you to feel this same way.

Those that just can't wrap their minds around the parents being guilty until they read just what the Mccanns has put out there themselves. It's awesome and very telling that Gerry himself, nothing else is causing people to think their guilty. Great post!!

Welcome all new members here, I see hats I've never seen post, so nice to get some new perspective, writing styles, please go to the other areas of this forum, especially the private forums like the jury room. :woohoo:

I'm afraid it's going to be their very own words and actions that confirms and convicts thems.

[delilah]

The only thing that nagged at my mind was the "blog" kept by Gerry McCann. The things he talked about seemed lacking in feeling and mundane--I wondered why would he talk about this kind of stuff in a blog about his missing daughter?


I'm on the fence too. Although it doesn't mean he's guilty of anything, I think the blog is REALLY strange. What makes him think anyone wants to know when they went to church, when they went for a run, what children's party they attended, etc? I suppose it's partly the narcissistic culture of the internet, where loads of people think others are interested in the intimate details of their lives, anyone can have their 15 mins of fame etc, or it's some odd kind of therapy. I haven't read any before this week's but here are some extracts for those who haven't seen it. It's wierdly lighthearted and detached:

Thursday
Everyone will know that Kate attended for interview as a witness with the Portuguese police today. This is only the second time Kate has been interviewed and although it was a long day, going on past midnight, this was shorter than my second interview which lasted 13 hours! The suggestion that Kate is involved in Madeleines disappearance is ludicrous. Anyone who knows anything about the 3rd May knows that Kate is completely innocent. We will fight this all the way and we will not stop looking for Madeleine.

Wednesday
We were surprised to find increased media presence in Praia da Luz again today. We were followed down to church, then to the shops and back to our accommodation which is very unusual, apart from the build up to the 100 days. All the excitement seems to be over the results of the recent forensic tests that again have created a huge amount of speculation. There has been no official conformation that the report has been received, or what the tests suggest if anything!

Tuesday
Kate and I went for a run along the coast at lunchtime. It was pretty windy but still warm enough. Later in the afternoon we went to visit a friend of Kate’s who is on holiday in a nearby village with her family. They brought lots of cards from well-wishers at home and we talked a lot about the search for Madeleine. The twins had a great time splashing around in a little inflatable paddle pool, singing songs and being doted on by the older kids.

[KOOL LOOK]

I'm on the fence too. Although it doesn't mean he's guilty of anything, I think the blog is REALLY strange. What makes him think anyone wants to know when they went to church, when they went for a run, what children's party they attended, etc? I suppose it's partly the narcissistic culture of the internet, where loads of people think others are interested in the intimate details of their lives, anyone can have their 15 mins of fame etc, or it's some odd kind of therapy. I haven't read any before this week's but here are some extracts for those who haven't seen it. It's wierdly lighthearted and detached:

Thursday
Everyone will know that Kate attended for interview as a witness with the Portuguese police today. This is only the second time Kate has been interviewed and although it was a long day, going on past midnight, this was shorter than my second interview which lasted 13 hours! The suggestion that Kate is involved in Madeleines disappearance is ludicrous. Anyone who knows anything about the 3rd May knows that Kate is completely innocent. We will fight this all the way and we will not stop looking for Madeleine.

Wednesday
We were surprised to find increased media presence in Praia da Luz again today. We were followed down to church, then to the shops and back to our accommodation which is very unusual, apart from the build up to the 100 days. All the excitement seems to be over the results of the recent forensic tests that again have created a huge amount of speculation. There has been no official conformation that the report has been received, or what the tests suggest if anything!

Tuesday
Kate and I went for a run along the coast at lunchtime. It was pretty windy but still warm enough. Later in the afternoon we went to visit a friend of Kate’s who is on holiday in a nearby village with her family. They brought lots of cards from well-wishers at home and we talked a lot about the search for Madeleine. The twins had a great time splashing around in a little inflatable paddle pool, singing songs and being doted on by the older kids.

Delilah, welcome and thanks for posting these on this thread. I don't know how to bring over links, websites, etc... to do it for myself. I agree, it's their own doings that's going to do them in. It is weird. Strange.

I haven't seen them crying, just looking agitated, stressed and looking like they don't appreciate being bothered.

[delilah]

Delilah, welcome and thanks for posting these on this thread.

Nice to be here! And good to see a thread for those of us who haven't rushed to judgement or let the emotional aspects of the case overwhelm us. I want cold hard facts not subjective and fanciful rantings!

[Columbo]

:blowkiss: Hi Colombo, welcome and I feel so special you have posted on my thread. I've noticed, anyone else? That we have lots of new posters on this forum? Especially on this thread? This really grows websleuths and I encourage new members to please post and give your insight.

Now, the reason I pulled this post out also is this insight speaks volumes, I almost wept when I read it. Colombo, I don't know if you realize how profound your words are.

Believing in their innocence, not getting taken into all the media hype, sensationalism even reading here, and just being so objective. But your opinion on what's only made you consider their guilt is their very own website where Gerry is Blogging. Gerry's own words has caused many, not just you to feel this same way.

Those that just can't wrap their minds around the parents being guilty until they read just what the Mccanns has put out there themselves. It's awesome and very telling that Gerry himself, nothing else is causing people to think their guilty. Great post!!

Welcome all new members here, I see hats I've never seen post, so nice to get some new perspective, writing styles, please go to the other areas of this forum, especially the private forums like the jury room. :woohoo:

I'm afraid it's going to be their very own words and actions that confirms and convicts thems.

Thanks for your welcome, KOOL LOOK. I was hoping my post didn't sound off-the-wall and glad that you noticed the same things about Gerry's blog. I followed the case closely for a few weeks after it happened, and then off and on going to the website, but was/am devastated wondering what happened to the poor little girl.

If these people really are guilty, they sure are doing a bang-up job of trying to hide it by going all over Europe "trying to get Madeleine back", keeping the website, etc. I suppose that all this means is that they are smarter than Scott Peterson. : (

[KOOL LOOK]

I'm not ready to hold the parents responsible yet. I just don't see them killing their daughter and hiding her body that night. From what I've read, there wasn't enough time. That being said, I do find some of the McCann 's actions suspecious. So few tears during interviews make me a little nervous and the visit with the Pope is huge red flag for me. Many devout, dedicated, loving Catholics have had family members go missing and zero to nil get a visit with the Pope.

Still, I need hard evidence for this one.

Until I hear more information about what evidence there really is, I'll leave mind open but I have always been very suspicious of the McCann's.

I dont think they are guilty of anything more than bad judgement and that the Portuguese police are desperate to conclude.

As most know I have always been willing to consider the parents as suspects as long as the case was looked at on its merits and was not just more anger posts about their having left the children behind unsupervised.

I also wanted and expected that many people that were around the missing little girl should also be looked at carefully and that as long as there was only one official suspect, due consideration also be given in that direction. It is what is proper to do.

I posted that the parents should not be accused by us here without some evidence and without being considered suspects by L.E. but now they ARE officially considered suspects by L.E. so speculation concerning them as perps is more proper in sleuthing the case.

I am still on the fence but I am quickly leaning towards the parents being guilty of some sort of crime. I now see how it could have happened and if I can see a single possibility I bet others can name 10 more ways I have not thought of.

Before I go on to post my thoughts on how it might have been done I note that L.E. can lie to suspects to induce a confession, claiming they have evidence which they may not in fact have. L.E. told the mccanns they have DNA evidence from the rental car etc but we have then heard it from the mcanns and not yet from L.E. (so far as I last read in news reports.) L.E. can't say anything to the public about the case according to their laws, so we have not heard the DNA stuff directly from them as far as I know. (I was gone from home most of the day today.)

Maybe, probably the DNA evidence is as we have been told from the mccanns but maybe not. We may have to await L.E. telling us these things to know for sure.

As to how it could have happened IF the parents were involved as it now appears:

If sedatives were involved it may not have been an overdose perse. It might have been too much to safely walk though and Madeleine might have fallen and broken her neck or may have smothered in bed without being able to function properly to stay safe. If the parents found her dead would they have put her body in the fridge and then hollered "they've taken her!" so that people all do a quick cursory room search and then search outside looking for Madeleine to be wandering lost or to be a captive but always looking anywhere but in the fridge of the apartment?
If so then the reason for the blood in the second apartment would need to be explained and I might have a way. How to move a body of a 3 year old and not have it look like a body. Maybe in a suitcase or maybe as cut up freezer packages or maybe as a body in a wheelie portable ice chest.
But blood specs in the second apartment and in the car would seem to come from a thawing body or body parts which were moved to the car and then maybe to a beach somewhere to be disposed of.

There is no nonrefrigeration way to account for a body being kept unspoiled for 25 days and then transported by car. It is too much a coincidence to think kidnappers got Madeleine and killed her and used that car to dump the body and then the parents rented it.

But remember- we do not KNOW that the alleged DNA evidence actually shows what it has been alleged to show.

I am still a fence sitter with an open mind but I easily see that evidence seems to point right at the parents as having done some sort of crime.
There is no way to not see that.

I'm on the fence, but leaning slightly more towards they did it.

I am sickened by the thought (IF it is true) that they gave the children sedatives while they went out.

In any event, IF the children were given a sedative, it is possible that something happened because of that - an overdose, an allergic reaction - whatever, and when they got home she was already DEAD. The cover up begins - wouldn't look good for "drugs" to show up in a 3-year-old's system and the parents would probably no longer be able to afford long extended vacations to foreign countries. Obviously, any parent who would give their child a sedative while they went out, puts their own selfish pleasures above those of the welfare of their children's.

My other thought is -- their lack of emotion. Even IF this was truly an accident, you would think they would still be emotionally distraught over the incident (probably more for themselves though - "how could this happen to us"?). I always equate the lack of emotions (tears, etc) to intentional killings, not accidental ones.

I wonder if any questioning has been done of the other children - probably not.

I have wondered this about much of the media reports. I just watched a clip on the Today Show. The reporter/analyst just kept staying that the Tabloids were convicting these people.

The only thing I got out of the report was that there was transfer of Maddie's DNA to something in the trunk of that car. Was it blood ? The "family spokesperson" is the one stating the car was not rented until 25 days later. So, perhaps it was prior to this.

I suppose I feel like the devil's advocate here, but I am just not ready to believe that if they did something to her they could pull of this cover-up and have an audience with the Pope. I don't get a good feeling from the parent's, but that's not enough to convict them, in my opinion. Philamena, I am with you on this one. However, I will keep on open mind ... I just need more factual information and less circumstantial theories.

This is how I feel too. Even though it doesn't sound too good for the McCanns right now.
I will not judge them on rumor.
We need to hear what evidence the PLE actually have.

The police have been playing a double game for some time now. Saying one thing in their official statements, while deliberately leaking other damaging "rumors" about the McCanns to the press...against their own laws.
I don't have a problem with this tactic if it works...and so long as the McCanns are actually guilty.

I don't think they did it.

I think they sedated Madeleine and her siblings. Doesn't mean they killed her. Sad as it is, millions of parents sedate their kids. And with the McCann's being doctors, I'd be very surprised if they accidentally overdosed Madeleine. I know that happens too, but why would there be blood evidence from an accidental overdose? Some people do bleed and froth when they overdose, but I wouldn't expect it to get all over the place as it would during a more violent death.

I'd also like to know just when the McCann's supposedly disposed of Madeleine's body. As far as I know, from the moment Kate ran from the room, their whereabouts have always been known.


Welcome, this is why I felt we needed this thread, because they still at this point could be innocent. I'm leaning more to the guilty, because their being there own worse enemies to me. But I want facts to convict and judge, not rumor and conjecture. Certainly not the police either being pressured and forced into hasty actions because it's such a famous case. The tragedy would be that or a false confession due to pressure and being wore out tired.

The deal we know about being made to Kate, I don't want it if she submits just so she'll have peace again in her life. I can tell you, I can see now how these type of cases can be overwhelming and cause an innocent person to confess. We know it's happened in the past. Several famous cases could be named. We don't want that here. Just the real truth.

Maddy is missing. Fact. Someone took her. Fact. Length of time and no eyewitnesses, age, circumstances, statistics pertaining to missing young children, points to the parents. Fact.

Glad to see the new posters here. This is going to be a big case. Months if not years will be invested by many of us.

[MSM]

I have not been following this case closely, but came to read the forum after seeing that the parents were named as suspects. I have not read the many threads here (don't have time!) but am curious about what has caused suspicion on the parents. I think it's possible (based mostly on statistics) that they were involved, but I think it's also very possible that they were not.

If Madeleine's DNA got in the trunk of the rental car due to her parents' involvement in her disappearance, as many have pointed out, it must have been in the process of moving her (dead or alive) at least 25 days after she was reported missing. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If they killed her, they decided when the police were notified. They could modify the timeline to suit their needs, ensuring that the body was removed before sounding the alarm. Why would they need to hide her in the apartment and move her later? Seems like an unnecessary risk.

I also don't think it is that strange that the parents gave their children over-the-counter medication to sedate them. It's not the best parenting in the world (neither is leaving 2 and 3 year olds alone with unlocked doors!!), but my father the doctor used to give me and my sister Benadryl at bedtime when we were little. I like to give him grief about this now, but there is nothing evil about it.

I would like to see if there is any other evidence, or any particularly suspicious statements or actions by the parents, before making up my mind. In contrast, with the JBR case, I thought someone in the family killed her as soon as I read about it.

Just my :twocents: !

[Columbo]

In the beginning I thought the parents were negligent in leaving their kids alone, but I never suspected that they were guilty - though I don't think they are necessarily "likeable" people. I just didn't get that guilty vibe like I have with other cases. Now, in light of recent developments, I am firmly on the fence.

However, I have always believed that Madeleine was either killed that night or shortly thereafter. I just wasn't sure by whom. :(

Like many here, I'm anxiously awaiting a full list of the evidence.

Thanks Olivia, that is the other thing that has been nibbling at my brain from the very beginning: how could these people, doctors yet, leave three little kids alone. Seemed really negligent to me, but then I started to believe their rationalization that the restaurant was not far away. I'm still not sure about the distance between hotel and restaurant--sorry, hope this doesn't sound dumb...I just haven't followed this case in detail.

I also did not get that strong "guilty" vibe like I have with other cases--with Scott Peterson, the INSTANT I saw him on t.v., a day or so after the murder (before he chose to stay silent & dodge the media), I knew he did it.

[sherri79]

Thanks Olivia, that is the other thing that has been nibbling at my brain from the very beginning: how could these people, doctors yet, leave three little kids alone. Seemed really negligent to me, but then I started to believe their rationalization that the restaurant was not far away. I'm still not sure about the distance between hotel and restaurant--sorry, hope this doesn't sound dumb...I just haven't followed this case in detail.

I also did not get that strong "guilty" vibe like I have with other cases--with Scott Peterson, the INSTANT I saw him on t.v., a day or so after the murder (before he chose to stay silent & dodge the media), I knew he did it.
maybe this will help. http://www.operationcybertip.org/images/PraiaDaLuzSLX_468x626.jpg

[Olivia77]

Thanks Olivia, that is the other thing that has been nibbling at my brain from the very beginning: how could these people, doctors yet, leave three little kids alone. Seemed really negligent to me, but then I started to believe their rationalization that the restaurant was not far away. I'm still not sure about the distance between hotel and restaurant--sorry, hope this doesn't sound dumb...I just haven't followed this case in detail.

I also did not get that strong "guilty" vibe like I have with other cases--with Scott Peterson, the INSTANT I saw him on t.v., a day or so after the murder (before he chose to stay silent & dodge the media), I knew he did it.

The way they phrased it at first made it sound like the restaurant was just a stone's throw away. For instance, I know a family who lives in a condo complex with a bbq in the inner courtyard. You can literally see into their house from where they are grilling when the shades are open, and yes, sometimes the mama leaves the kids for 10 minutes to throw burgers on the grill but she can still SEE them playing in the living room while she's making burgers.

I thought it was a similar situation at the beginning, until a map showed me how far away they actually were. Sherri79 provided a great link with that info.

So that led me to thinking, okay, dumb/stupid decision and yes, negligent, but I know parents who make dumb decisions everyday for their children and I'm sure my time will come too! I felt that throwing them in jail would detract from the case as I'd always believed their innocence. Now that they are talking about forensics pointing to the parents I just don't know what to think. By the way CaliKid posted a really thought provoking message on the Theories thread you should check out.

I know that was long winded, but I totally know where you are coming from. :)

[concernedperson]

Calikid's theory is thought provoking and reasoned. The only thing I might add is maybe Maddie was not given a sedative because she was already injured or dead but the twins were given one while the clean up occurred. The blood on the wall, and we heard from MoonGoddess, that blood was on a ceramic tile as well, indicates a more serious altercation than an overdose of a sedative.

[CaliKid]

Olivia and Columbo,

The Tapas bar was about 100 yards away as the crow flies, almost double that to walk (because of sidewalks, shrubbery, a wall, a gated swimming pool, etc.) The parents repeatedly negated the distance, even at one point saying they were only 20 yards away. They also likened it repeatedly to dining in your garden (back yard) and leaving the children alone in the house. But of course if we were to leave our children alone inside, we would lock the door first. The McCanns didn't even do that.

[Salem]

:blushing:

Not to mention, it is still hard to believe these parents, as Ed pointed out too, are doctors, if Maddy had accidently gotten sick or hurt, they naturally and intelligently would have sought care for her by taking her to a hospital and administring medical care themselves because of their profession. Another good point which tends to make me re-think my position.

I know this is the place for parents not guilty or on the fencers, and I don't want to argue. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, so please take this with the :blowkiss: with which it is written. I suppose I am responding because this "doctor" angle has become a "pet peeve" with me.

Yes the McCanns have been trained as doctors. One is a general practioner we are told. As such, it could be assumed:
1. The McCanns are educated
2. The McCanns have experience with childhood accidents
3. The McCanns have seen evidence of child abuse at some point in their careers
4. The McCanns have seen evidence of child neglect at some point in their careers
5. The McCanns have seen unexpected, senseless muggings, stabbings, shootings, etc.

Given that the McCanns must have seen more than one childhood tragedy or senseless act of violence in their experiences as DOCTORS, why the (lots of bad words here) did they leave their children alone, in an unlocked apartment, in a foreign county no less, where the children wouldn't have even been able to understand the words of others? Not just once, but apparently every night they were on holiday? What if the McCanns were mugged on their way back from where ever they went? What if staff had to go in and take the children? What if one of the children disappeared?

Their irresponsible behavior gives no credance to their training as medical professionals NOR does it provide them with any kind of excuse for their behavior. In my opinion, it only make what they did 100 times worse and that is even before we get to the question of what happened to Maddie.

If Maddie would have accidently gotten sick or hurt, the McCanns would NOT have even known at least for 1 hour and 45 minutes (according to the upstairs neighbor) so they wouldn't have been in a position to help Maddie, now would they.:mad:

Okay guys - I'll stay out of your thread now.:blushing:

Salem

[Columbo]

maybe this will help. http://www.operationcybertip.org/images/PraiaDaLuzSLX_468x626.jpg

Thank you so much for posting that picture. oh my goodness. Weren't the McCann's saying it was 100 yards from their room? Sure doesn't look like 100 yards to me.
They almost had me believing it was across the hall from their room!

[Columbo]

The way they phrased it at first made it sound like the restaurant was just a stone's throw away. For instance, I know a family who lives in a condo complex with a bbq in the inner courtyard. You can literally see into their house from where they are grilling when the shades are open, and yes, sometimes the mama leaves the kids for 10 minutes to throw burgers on the grill but she can still SEE them playing in the living room while she's making burgers.

I thought it was a similar situation at the beginning, until a map showed me how far away they actually were. Sherri79 provided a great link with that info.

So that led me to thinking, okay, dumb/stupid decision and yes, negligent, but I know parents who make dumb decisions everyday for their children and I'm sure my time will come too! I felt that throwing them in jail would detract from the case as I'd always believed their innocence. Now that they are talking about forensics pointing to the parents I just don't know what to think. By the way CaliKid posted a really thought provoking message on the Theories thread you should check out.

I know that was long winded, but I totally know where you are coming from. :)

Olivia, thank you again so much!! I'll check out CaliKid's message.

[Love_Mama]

maybe this will help. http://www.operationcybertip.org/images/PraiaDaLuzSLX_468x626.jpg

Sherri....... you sweetheart, thank's for putting the photo up again showing the very LONG distance between where "mommie and daddy dearest" were wining and dining and have a wonderful times at this 'tony' jet set resort while their children had been have convientely been stashed away in the Hotel room.....by themselves, door open!

Why did the neighbor in the Hotel suite, room, who heard little Maddie screaming crying NOT call the police?

It absolutely sicken's me to think that these type of human beings exist in a world like ours, so full of honest needy people, human being's just trying to find work to get enough food for their children! Rant over!

I happen to live in a town where there are too many people like this. Their whole lives are all about them! The kids run wild. Drugs are rife, because "mommy and sweet daddy" have the money to give to them for the children to decide how they want to use it!

Here's my thoughts on guilty of accidentally killing the little girl, or outright murdering her. Overdose or WHAT!
-------------------------------

Firstly, I have lost a child. I know exactly what it feels like. I have never once, never ever seen such cold people in my entire life and do not tell me that people grieve differently. Of COURSE they do......but never like this!

'Daddy's Blog is overkill! It sound's like a teenagers 'My Space"
IF they accidentally overdosed the child.......then they should both spend a few years in prison on THAT count plus leaving the children alone should give them a few more years in Prison. I consider "non humans"

Here's what I never heard anyone on the thread's mention!
IF.............they indeed did kill their daughter, then why?????????? WHAT would their MOTIVE be?

Parent's kill their children for a reason. Everyone who murders' someone, almost everyone, has a reason or what LE call's a motive. What would the MOTIVE possibly BE? Please comment!

My thinking here is........Does anyone here KNOW if there was anything medically wrong with Maddie! I ask this because I post occasionally on the "Autistic Children thread. Maddie appear's to me to be a normal child. However, none of us know or have heard anything contrary to this. If anyone find's something, PLEASE POST. This could be a HUGE clue! I'm thinking that perhaps this lovely couple could not accept a child who was "different"!

Guess that's about it. I swear...................I do not KNOW for sure what happened and I don't think anyone here does either. You're sure ALL a bunch of great sleuthers.......and I'm so happy to see so many new people here..............God Bless you ALL! Right now this case is a mess....can't belive anything you hear......and very hard to decipher what LE really is doing.

The photo that dear Sherri is really 'telling'...........

Excuse for all the typo's . I've got 12 teenagers in my living room right now. I LOVE them all............but the noise is a little excessive!



xxxxxxxxxoooooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

[concernedperson]

Sherri....... you sweetheart, thank's for putting the photo up again showing the very LONG distance between where "mommie and daddy dearest" were wining and dining and have a wonderful times at this 'tony' jet set resort while their children had been have convientely been stashed away in the Hotel room.....by themselves, door open!

Why did the neighbor in the Hotel suite, room, who heard little Maddie screaming crying NOT call the police?

It absolutely sicken's me to think that these type of human beings exist in a world like ours, so full of honest needy people, human being's just trying to find work to get enough food for their children! Rant over!

I happen to live in a town where there are too many people like this. Their whole lives are all about them! The kids run wild. Drugs are rife, because "mommy and sweet daddy" have the money to give to them for the children to decide how they want to use it!

Here's my thoughts on guilty of accidentally killing the little girl, or outright murdering her. Overdose or WHAT!
-------------------------------

Firstly, I have lost a child. I know exactly what it feels like. I have never once, never ever seen such cold people in my entire life and do not tell me that people grieve differently. Of COURSE they do......but never like this!

'Daddy's Blog is overkill! It sound's like a teenagers 'My Space"
IF they accidentally overdosed the child.......then they should both spend a few years in prison on THAT count plus leaving the children alone should give them a few more years in Prison. I consider "non humans"

Here's what I never heard anyone on the thread's mention!
IF.............they indeed did kill their daughter, then why?????????? WHAT would their MOTIVE be?

Parent's kill their children for a reason. Everyone who murders' someone, almost everyone, has a reason or what LE call's a motive. What would the MOTIVE possibly BE? Please comment!

My thinking here is........Does anyone here KNOW if there was anything medically wrong with Maddie! I ask this because I post occasionally on the "Autistic Children thread. Maddie appear's to me to be a normal child. However, none of us know or have heard anything contrary to this. If anyone find's something, PLEASE POST. This could be a HUGE clue! I'm thinking that perhaps this lovely couple could not accept a child who was "different"!

Guess that's about it. I swear...................I do not KNOW for sure what happened and I don't think anyone here does either. You're sure ALL a bunch of great sleuthers.......and I'm so happy to see so many new people here..............God Bless you ALL! Right now this case is a mess....can't belive anything you hear......and very hard to decipher what LE really is doing.

The photo that dear Sherri is really 'telling'...........


xxxxxxxxxoooooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

First of all, you know. You know what it feels like to lose a child. You know that it isn't about jogging and blogging. It is the pain and hole in your heart that never goes away. The McCanns aren't there and I dare say anyone post that everyone grieves differently. No, we grieve for children not even our own because that is what the human race does.These people are about themselves.

Frankly, themselves are very ugly.

[CaliKid]

Oh Love Mama,

Thank you SO MUCH for posting that. I have tried very hard to get people to understand how strange the McCanns' "grieving process" looked to me, but having never lost a child, what did I know? They seemed cold and aloof, smirking and smiling on camera and apparently uninterested in Madeleine, but as I've been told time and again people grieve differently. And I thought, not THAT much, but getting people to listen was like :banghead: I am thankful to have your input and appreciate your point of view.

[CaliKid]

Here's what I never heard anyone on the thread's mention!
IF.............they indeed did kill their daughter, then why?????????? WHAT would their MOTIVE be?

Parent's kill their children for a reason. Everyone who murders' someone, almost everyone, has a reason or what LE call's a motive. What would the MOTIVE possibly BE? Please comment!

My thinking here is........Does anyone here KNOW if there was anything medically wrong with Maddie! I ask this because I post occasionally on the "Autistic Children thread. Maddie appear's to me to be a normal child. However, none of us know or have heard anything contrary to this. If anyone find's something, PLEASE POST. This could be a HUGE clue! I'm thinking that perhaps this lovely couple could not accept a child who was "different"!

xxxxxxxxxoooooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

There are rumors that Madeleine was autistic or maybe had Asperger's. Also that she might have been afflicted with a mild version of CHARGE syndrome.

[BethInAK]

Apparently the DNA would be similar to her mother's, so it's not 100percent solid evidence. Also we don't know whether it is a minute spot or a huge area that was found.



I agree that we don't have enough information to convict anyone in this forum.

However, Madeleines dna would be half her mothers - distinctly different. they should easily be able to tell kate from madeleines dna.

[STEADFAST]

Being an NG is a new experience for me! In this case, I'd say I'm more of a fence sitter, since I have no reason to believe either of the McCanns DIDN'T kill Madeleine. But I also don't see any compelling reason to think that they did.

The Portugese press stories about the wild drunkeness and/or swinging lifestyle of the group at the tapas bar is no more convincing to me than the smear job that Aruban sources do on Natalee Holloway.

It seems like everybody and their brother in the vicinity knew that Madeleine was without any adult supervision in that apartment on that and most nights.

Calpol, the drug Maddie's parents admit to sometimes giving her and her siblings is NOT a sedative. (from link) Calpol, which is a painkiller containing paracetamol. It does not have a sedative effect. If administered in huge doses, such as a couple of bottles, it would damage the liver - but the effect would take several days to become apparent. Nor is a child who has overdosed doomed: they can be given an antidote to neutralise the effect of the drug.

Flying around the world to talk about missing children and visiting the Pope don't really fall under the catagory of "jetsetting."

The DNA evidence is degraded and not a conclusive match for Madeleine; the forensic collection methods were outrageously flawed.

Disposing of Madeleine's body in a strage country and under such intense scrutiny would be nigh on impossible.

The Portugese police are desperate. There's a huge need for a quick convenient, and non-Portugese suspect.

I'm just not ready to convict these parents yet.


http://http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2414830.ece (http://http//www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2414830.ece)

[packerdog]

Being an NG is a new experience for me! In this case, I'd say I'm more of a fence sitter, since I have no reason to believe either of the McCanns DIDN'T kill Madeleine. But I also don't see any compelling reason to think that they did.

The Portugese press stories about the wild drunkeness and/or swinging lifestyle of the group at the tapas bar is no more convincing to me than the smear job that Aruban sources do on Natalee Holloway.

It seems like everybody and their brother in the vicinity knew that Madeleine was without any adult supervision in that apartment on that and most nights.

Calpol, the drug Maddie's parents admit to sometimes giving her and her siblings is NOT a sedative. (from link)

Flying around the world to talk about missing children and visiting the Pope don't really fall under the catagory of "jetsetting."

The DNA evidence is degraded and not a conclusive match for Madeleine; the forensic collection methods were outrageously flawed.

Disposing of Madeleine's body in a strage country and under such intense scrutiny would be nigh on impossible.

The Portugese police are desperate. There's a huge need for a quick convenient, and non-Portugese suspect.

I'm just not ready to convict these parents yet.


http://http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2414830.ece (http://http//www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2414830.ece)

I agree with ya.

[Brefie]

There are rumors that Madeleine was autistic or maybe had Asperger's. Also that she might have been afflicted with a mild version of CHARGE syndrome.

I really think that if Madeleine was autistic it would be old news by now. I really believe that the family would be screaming about it. Aren't medications involved? Certain special needs? I really believe that fact would have been included in the pleas for her return. Wouldn't an autistic child be extremely panicked - more so than a non-autistic child?

[Brefie]

I am back on the fence today, leaning towards not guilty. I am admittedly swayed by various talk shows pointing out that nothing has been revealed that truly points the finger.
I was swayed initially just by the arguido status, but Robert Murat? The full on media campaign that started immediately makes it almost impossible to hide a body and I am starting to believe that if she died in the apartment as it is rumored the police believe, then I cannot imagine it would be too hard to build a case against the parents because it would have been that obvious. The fact that they are doctors does not make me believe they would have covered it up this well to the point they have not been arrested.

[T-Rex]

I don't think they did it. Too hard to disappear the body in a foreign country. Too hard to act normal at dinner. Afterward, they would want to let the attention die, and go back to their old lives--not stay in Portugal, start a reward / search fund, and draw international attention.

[april4sky]

Being an NG is a new experience for me! In this case, I'd say I'm more of a fence sitter, since I have no reason to believe either of the McCanns DIDN'T kill Madeleine. But I also don't see any compelling reason to think that they did.

The Portugese press stories about the wild drunkeness and/or swinging lifestyle of the group at the tapas bar is no more convincing to me than the smear job that Aruban sources do on Natalee Holloway.

It seems like everybody and their brother in the vicinity knew that Madeleine was without any adult supervision in that apartment on that and most nights.

Calpol, the drug Maddie's parents admit to sometimes giving her and her siblings is NOT a sedative. (from link)

Flying around the world to talk about missing children and visiting the Pope don't really fall under the catagory of "jetsetting."

The DNA evidence is degraded and not a conclusive match for Madeleine; the forensic collection methods were outrageously flawed.

Disposing of Madeleine's body in a strage country and under such intense scrutiny would be nigh on impossible.

The Portugese police are desperate. There's a huge need for a quick convenient, and non-Portugese suspect.

I'm just not ready to convict these parents yet.


http://http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2414830.ece

Well said Steadfast.

One of the most sensible posts I have read for some time.

[guineveer]

Firstly, I have lost a child. I know exactly what it feels like. I have never once, never ever seen such cold people in my entire life and do not tell me that people grieve differently. Of COURSE they do......but never like this!

Bless you for your loss. Of course you have an insight many do not.

However, most people who have lost a child do not have to grieve in such a public fashion, followed by cameras and crews of newspersons day after day, week after week. We have no way of knowing their private grieving process...only their public.

I will not judge them for that.

Gerry's voice broke in his last statement about Madeleine today (at the airport returning to the UK) and I felt his frustration and pain. My heart goes out to them.

[Brefie]

They have made lots of comments about how they are devastated. To me they look like broken people. That's not to say they were not extremely negligent.

[mjak]

The look like broken people to me too. There world is broken and I do feel sympathy for them. I have always been convinced whatever happend to Maddie it was not a deliberate act on the part of the parents. However, I do believe the parents are not being honest about everything and this is making it impossible for me to believe in their innocnence. The timeline for the night with the friends is unbelievable to me. The behaviors of the parents both when Maddie was found missing and since then have been repeadilty odd. They need to come clean. If they sedated the children but had nothing to do with Maddie's dissapearance they need to admitt that. However, they can not admitt that now because that would label them both as liers. I am not convinced they killed Maddie but I am convinced they are not being truthful about someting.

mjak

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I really think that if Madeleine was autistic it would be old news by now. I really believe that the family would be screaming about it. Aren't medications involved? Certain special needs? I really believe that fact would have been included in the pleas for her return. Wouldn't an autistic child be extremely panicked - more so than a non-autistic child?


First off a BIG THANKS to Love Mama, for bringing up the possibility that maybe Maddie could have been autistic. Having an Autistic child, I immediately thought Maddie appeared autistic by her expressionless eyes on the few photos of her.

And to Brefie...no there are no commonly consistently prescribed drugs used on autistic kids except sedatives. Same with diet. Many parents do try and maintain gluten free, chemical free diets, but certainly not everyone, it's very difficult. Many Autistic kids, including mine are very healthy. As far as anxiety. Depends on the kid. Mine would go with anyone with a cookie.

My child at that age seemed like a very hyper 3 yrs old. Looked perfectly normal, and could pass as a regular kid...but to the people who knew him best, he was anything near normal. Many people thought my kid was just a spoiled little brat who didn't talk because he didn't need to. It wasn't until he entered Kindergarten did most people, (besides us, his parents) realize he really did have a problem, and it wasn't spoilage.

Over the years, there have been 100's of cases of parents killing their Autistic Child...it's a very real and possible scenario and was my first thought when I first heard about this case.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

There are rumors that Madeleine was autistic or maybe had Asperger's. Also that she might have been afflicted with a mild version of CHARGE syndrome.


This is of great interest to me. Could you post your resources? Where did you hear this. It certainly could be motive.

[Brefie]

First off a BIG THANKS to Love Mama, for bringing up the possibility that maybe Maddie could have been autistic. Having an Autistic child, I immediately thought Maddie appeared autistic by her expressionless eyes on the few photos of her.

And to Brefie...no there are no commonly consistently prescribed drugs used on autistic kids except sedatives. Same with diet. Many parents do try and maintain gluten free, chemical free diets, but certainly not everyone, it's very difficult. Many Autistic kids, including mine are very healthy. As far as anxiety. Depends on the kid. Mine would go with anyone with a cookie.

My child at that age seemed like a very hyper 3 yrs old. Looked perfectly normal, and could pass as a regular kid...but to the people who knew him best, he was anything near normal. Many people thought my kid was just a spoiled little brat who didn't talk because he didn't need to. It wasn't until he entered Kindergarten did most people, (besides us, his parents) realize he really did have a problem, and it wasn't spoilage.

Over the years, there have been 100's of cases of parents killing their Autistic Child...it's a very real and possible scenario and was my first thought when I first heard about this case.

Thank you for the info :)

Let me ask you this - if an autistic child was kidnapped, would it be something you would mention in your pleas for the safe return?? That's really all I was getting at.

[Siren]

I completely shocked at how easily people are accepting the practice of the McCanns drugging their children. One poster stated, "millions do it." That lead me to do more reading. I discovered that in the UK/Australia, they do have over the counter sleep meds for children. :confused:

If parents followed this practice in the US they would be arrested for child abuse! And for the poster whose father was a doctor, well, I was disgusted. I've been a pediatric nurse for 30 years and no doctor I know would have routinely given Benadryl to their children or advised a parent to do so just to induce sleep. You were abused. :furious:

[KOOL LOOK]

The look like broken people to me too. There world is broken and I do feel sympathy for them. I have always been convinced whatever happend to Maddie it was not a deliberate act on the part of the parents. However, I do believe the parents are not being honest about everything and this is making it impossible for me to believe in their innocnence. The timeline for the night with the friends is unbelievable to me. The behaviors of the parents both when Maddie was found missing and since then have been repeadilty odd. They need to come clean. If they sedated the children but had nothing to do with Maddie's dissapearance they need to admitt that. However, they can not admitt that now because that would label them both as liers. I am not convinced they killed Maddie but I am convinced they are not being truthful about someting.

mjak

This post is an absolute reason why the parents need to take a polygraph. Too much unexplained questions, full honesty here on their behalf can't be denied, they haven't been. I think we all ought to go to Gerry's web site, and nicely demand polygraphs. I dont' believe we would be out of place to do so. We know a crimes been committed, just not by who, and if they are the killers, they are criminals, already been criminally negligent, just not charged, and they should do this to take suspicion off themselves more so.

I say take the polygraph!!!! :hand: It's time.You've now been named suspects, do whatever you can to get the focus off of you and on the correct suspect if you are innocent. Do everything you can to clear yourselves.

Bless you for your loss. Of course you have an insight many do not.

However, most people who have lost a child do not have to grieve in such a public fashion, followed by cameras and crews of newspersons day after day, week after week. We have no way of knowing their private grieving process...only their public.

I will not judge them for that.

Gerry's voice broke in his last statement about Madeleine today (at the airport returning to the UK) and I felt his frustration and pain. My heart goes out to them.


Grief is different for people. Grief for a child, hmmmmm we're talking here a child, supposedly ripped from you and your family, no answers to her whereabouts, this long of a time, desperation, tears, pleas, should be apparent. They have all this energy to do all the activities we've witnessed in the media, but no actual hands on seaching themselves, no hiring experienced searchers to the extend I would be hiring them.

I would be sooooooooooo, and so would all parents, be going crazy. Ed Smart and his wife had tears many times in the media and on the talk shows before Elizabeth was found. Even months and months after her disappearance. They never screamed and wailed, but oh they sure wept, trembled and pleaded. No doubt about it.

[KOOL LOOK]

I completely shocked at how easily people are accepting the practice of the McCanns drugging their children. One poster stated, "millions do it." That lead me to do more reading. I discovered that in the UK/Australia, they do have over the counter sleep meds for children. :confused:

If parents followed this practice in the US they would be arrested for child abuse! And for the poster whose father was a doctor, well, I was disgusted. I've been a pediatric nurse for 30 years and no doctor I know would have routinely given Benadryl to their children or advised a parent to do so just to induce sleep. You were abused. :furious:

I agree, and welcome! Now, if a child is overly tired, excitable, or in some type of medical condition that's hindering rest and sleep, a correct drug should be administered for that age. Drugging children repeatedly for sleep purposes, someone hasn't done their job in teaching and parenting.

Children that's had a full contented happy day, fed properly and are in normal health, go to sleep without alot of grief and (rig a marow). A made up vocablulary word I use when a home situation isn't being run correctly and theirs strife and cayous. Spelling is wrong, I just had a brain delayment. :)

[jilly]

Being an NG is a new experience for me! In this case, I'd say I'm more of a fence sitter, since I have no reason to believe either of the McCanns DIDN'T kill Madeleine. But I also don't see any compelling reason to think that they did.

I'm in the same boat as you Steadfast. I must admit though that I haven't followed this case as religiously as many very credible sleuthers here. Strong feelings here too because in all my time of being here at WS, I've never noticed a special thread for fence sitters.

The points you make are valid. It's going to be interesting to see what happens here. I just hope we all find out what happened to Maddie and it doesn't end up like the Holloway case.

[reb]

So Siren, why aren't the millions of parents who drug their kids HERE (prozac, ritalin, etc. etc. etc..) guilty of child abuse....???

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Thank you for the info :)

Let me ask you this - if an autistic child was kidnapped, would it be something you would mention in your pleas for the safe return?? That's really all I was getting at.


You're Welcome...I always look for an opportunity to educate on autism. :rolleyes:

And to answer your question...yes, most people would. The social/communication issues alone are mainly the largest, and most debilitating problem for ASD kids. It would be a major factor in a search and rescue situation. BUT, if you accidentally killed your autistic kid because she pooped her pants for the 5th time that day, or because she wouldn't go to sleep when it was party time, (Both very common problems for ASD kids), You might just omit that part to avoid a motive being pinned on yourself...especially if you knew it wouldn't help in finding her anyway and it wasn't a well known fact.

I hope Calikid can find her reference to Maddie being in the ASD spectrum. That certainly would be a deciding leap off the fence for me.

[Brefie]

So Siren, why aren't the millions of parents who drug their kids HERE (prozac, ritalin, etc. etc. etc..) guilty of child abuse....???

Probably because they are prescribed by a medical profession for an actual disorder, not just temporary restlessness.

[Brefie]

You're Welcome...I always look for an opportunity to educate on autism. :rolleyes:

And to answer your question...yes, most people would. The social/communication issues alone are mainly the largest, and most debilitating problem for ASD kids. It would be a major factor in a search and rescue situation. BUT, if you accidentally killed your autistic kid because she pooped her pants for the 5th time that day, or because she wouldn't go to sleep when it was party time, (Both very common problems for ASD kids), You might just omit that part to avoid a motive being pinned on yourself...especially if you knew it wouldn't help in finding her anyway and it wasn't a well known fact.

Thanks again. I ask because I did assume that for a parent, I would think that it would be a major factor and that they may be *especially* afraid for their autistic child. An abductor may very easily decide that this child is harder to conceal in a public place because of their unpredictability. I think parents would imagine that an abductor would be quicker to do the unthinkable.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

I completely shocked at how easily people are accepting the practice of the McCanns drugging their children. One poster stated, "millions do it." That lead me to do more reading. I discovered that in the UK/Australia, they do have over the counter sleep meds for children. :confused:

If parents followed this practice in the US they would be arrested for child abuse! And for the poster whose father was a doctor, well, I was disgusted. I've been a pediatric nurse for 30 years and no doctor I know would have routinely given Benadryl to their children or advised a parent to do so just to induce sleep. You were abused. :furious:


I totally agree! I have a son who couldn't sleep but a few hours a night when he was 3, but we made it through without sleeping drugs. We got him up early, played and worked with him hard all day. Skipped his nap and a nice relaxing bath in the evening finally cured him. No drugs needed.

[Siren]

I just can't find any defense for the McCann's reckless disregard for their children.

Here's my quick take on this horrible situation:

The McCanns spent their days enjoying their holiday while the children were in daycare. This doesn't bother me, the children were probably well cared for. They would have been tired from playing all day. I expect they had more structure in the daycare environment than if cared for by their parents while they partied.

Then the McCanns would spend about an hour with their children, before drugging them to sleep and then leaving them alone in their beds and go off for more partying with their friends. I don't care if the apartment was in my direct sight and I could see the front door, I'd still be afraid to leave my precious babes ALONE!

The McCanns' apartment was several blocks from where they were eating, not just a few yards away as implied by the McCanns. I walked the distance as referenced on overhead photo posted here on WS. I was stunned to find that I was so far away from my home!

Then the hightly intelligent McCanns created a world wide circus to draw attention to themselves and Maddie. A series of staged events designed for the McCanns to perform publicly held the world riveted. Unfortunately, the McCanns just don't feel genuine to me. The poster who referenced Ed Smart's behavior was spot on. When watching the McCanns they seem disingenuous to me.

I don't know what happend to Maddie. But what I do know is that the McCanns should have left their sweet babes safe at home with their Nanny and gone one holiday to enjoy themselves. Spending one hour a day with your children is not my idea of a family holiday. But remember, the McCann's are driven individuals. They're both doctors and are used to not spending much time with their children. It's the nature of the profession. Doctors work 80 hours a week here is the US. It expect it's much the same in the UK.

So I'm off the fence and and just downright disgusted with the McCanns. When I look at them, what I see are two people who think they can outsmart the world.

Pardon me but I have to get off my soapbox now I'm going to be :sick: :sick:

[CaliKid]

I just can't find any defense for the McCann's reckless disregard for their children.

Here's my quick take on this horrible situation:

The McCanns spent their days enjoying their holiday while the children were in daycare. This doesn't bother me, the children were probably well cared for. They would have been tired from playing all day. I expect they had more structure in the daycare environment than if cared for by their parents while they partied.

Then the McCanns would spend about an hour with their children, before drugging them to sleep and then leaving them alone in their beds and go off for more partying with their friends. I don't care if the apartment was in my direct sight and I could see the front door, I'd still be afraid to leave my precious babes ALONE!

The McCanns' apartment was several blocks from where they were eating, not just a few yards away as implied by the McCanns. I walked the distance as referenced on overhead photo posted here on WS. I was stunned to find that I was so far away from my home!

Then the hightly intelligent McCanns created a world wide circus to draw attention to themselves and Maddie. A series of staged events designed for the McCanns to perform publicly held the world riveted. Unfortunately, the McCanns just don't feel genuine to me. The poster who referenced Ed Smart's behavior was spot on. When watching the McCanns they seem disingenuous to me.

I don't know what happend to Maddie. But what I do know is that the McCanns should have left their sweet babes safe at home with their Nanny and gone one holiday to enjoy themselves. Spending one hour a day with your children is not my idea of a family holiday. But remember, the McCann's are driven individuals. They're both doctors and are used to not spending much time with their children. It's the nature of the profession. Doctors work 80 hours a week here is the US. It expect it's much the same in the UK.

So I'm off the fence and and just downright disgusted with the McCanns. When I look at them, what I see are two people who think they can outsmart the world.

Pardon me but I have to get off my soapbox now I'm going to be :sick: :sick:

I like your soapbox, Siren. Like you, I just don't know why the McCanns didn't leave the children home.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Thanks again. I ask because I did assume that for a parent, I would think that it would be a major factor and that they may be *especially* afraid for their autistic child. An abductor may very easily decide that this child is harder to conceal in a public place because of their unpredictability. I think parents would imagine that an abductor would be quicker to do the unthinkable.

I know this would be my first utterance out of my mouth to LE, for the reasons you stated and the fact that Autistic children tend to be drawn to water, tight places, and often high places. If Maddie was on the spectrum as "Calikid" suggested, I find it VERY odd that that wasn't reported daily.:confused:

[Love_Mama]

There are rumors that Madeleine was autistic or maybe had Asperger's. Also that she might have been afflicted with a mild version of CHARGE syndrome.

Thanks for the heads up CaliKid..........I know the symptoms of both Autism and Asperger's......but have never heard of CHARGE. I googled it and here's what it says. When I read the symptoms of CHARGE ...........something caught my eye.....and it was what I want you guy's to read.
We may be on to something. Certainly two parents, both Doctors were be aware of something like this and it could certainly be a motive for killing her if they they couldn't handle a child with any defects! :(

One symptom is:
Coloboma of the eye (a cleft or keyhole-shaped defect occurring in one or more areas of the eye including the iris, retina, or disc)

More at:
http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/issue11-96/CHARGE%20Syndrome.htm

xxxoo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

snip....... Certainly two parents, both Doctors were be aware of something like this and it could certainly be a motive for killing her if they they couldn't handle a child with any defects! :(

One symptom is:
Coloboma of the eye (a cleft or keyhole-shaped defect occurring in one or more areas of the eye including the iris, retina, or disc)

More at:
http://www.tsbvi.edu/Outreach/seehear/issue11-96/CHARGE%20Syndrome.htm

xxxoo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

VERY INTERESTING...hummm This could certainly be a very LARGE motive for 2 perfect, health conscious, vanity issues, swinging, Doctors.

[Siren]

(Stepping up onto teaching box now)....

Maddie did not have any outward physical signs of a hereditary disorder such as CHARGE syndrome save for her "keyhole" eye defect. Most cases of coloboma have no known cause and are not assocatied with a genetic disorder (like CHARGE). Coloboma can be caused by trauma or eye surgery. A very small percentage of people with coloboma have other inherited problems.

If Maddie had problems, they weren't visible. If she did have a serious disorder I suspect the family would have used this to their advantage at this time. She may have had ADHD or autism where there can be relatively few physical signs and mostly behavioral charactistics. (Physical signs based on still photographs, only!!!)

I just found out that Dr/Mr McCann was a heart surgeon. Does anyone know what type of medicine Dr/Mrs McCann practices?

Also, has there been any word from the McCann's nanny(ies)? Nannies can be such a wealth of information regarding how a family really lives their lives.

[haypaula]

At this time, I'm a fencesitter because the handling of this case, along with the importance of the tourism industry, which has suffered since Maddie's disappearance, reminds me of the Natalee Holloway case and ALE's repeated attempts to blame the victim and her family. Both agencies have been cited as bungling their investigations.

I'm not yet convinced the McCanns are involved in Maddie's disappearance, despite their poor parenting decision to leave their three small children alone while they dined.

IMO

[Texana]

Love Mama,
The second line of the associated conditions that can be associated with columbas, in the article you linked to is heart defect.

An undiagnosed heart defect would be a factor in sedation/anesthesia issues, wouldn't it?

[Chanler]

Love Mama,
The second line of the associated conditions that can be associated with columbas, in the article you linked to is heart defect.

An undiagnosed heart defect would be a factor in sedation/anesthesia issues, wouldn't it?

Hi, Texana.

One would hope that any heart defect would have been diagnosed by her father, a cardiologist.

I've noticed that speculation about victims' disabilities seem to pop up whenever a high-profile girl goes missing or are found dead: JonBenet, Natalee Holloway, now Madeleine.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

Hi, Texana.

One would hope that any heart defect would have been diagnosed by her father, a cardiologist.

I've noticed that speculation about victims' disabilities seem to pop up whenever a high-profile girl goes missing or are found dead: JonBenet, Natalee Holloway, now Madeleine.

Pardon my off topic post, and my ignorance, but what possible disability did Natalee Holloway have?

[MSM]

I completely shocked at how easily people are accepting the practice of the McCanns drugging their children. One poster stated, "millions do it." That lead me to do more reading. I discovered that in the UK/Australia, they do have over the counter sleep meds for children. :confused:

If parents followed this practice in the US they would be arrested for child abuse! And for the poster whose father was a doctor, well, I was disgusted. I've been a pediatric nurse for 30 years and no doctor I know would have routinely given Benadryl to their children or advised a parent to do so just to induce sleep. You were abused. :furious:

However, a lot of parents in the US give their kids Benadryl before flights. This was a suggestion posted by parents on a lot of blogs when that whole issue of the child being kicked off of the Airtran flight came up. I think it is not a great idea and if done at all, should be reserved for extenuating circumstances, but I don't think it's child abuse.

To me, the issue of possibly sedating the children and leaving them alone indicate that the McCanns can be irresponsible parents, but does not make me think that they killed Maddie.

[KOOL LOOK]

Rino on another thread just reported that the Mccanns are being charged. Kate with manslaughter of Maddie. Hmmmmm, and they have now left the country? If true, why did police allow them to leave?

Absolutely some kind of agreements, pacts between law enforcement in both countries, and attorneys along with the mccanns word they would return, or else why were they allowed to leave?

I thought when Kate exited the bldg. with her attorney they had these looks of more than just stressed or tired from being interogated. The attorney acted as if he was in total control at that point. Explains it then, he now was hired to do his thing.

The Mccans have known for a few days, that's why they separated, different interviews, showing up alone except for counsel, they already knew what the police were planning on doing. Their attorneys worked out a deal, because of all the media, threats etc... I would be willing to bet cuddle cat on. :hand: :crazy:

[Chanler]

Pardon my off topic post, and my ignorance, but what possible disability did Natalee Holloway have?

Hi, InterestedWoman, I doubt that poor Natalee had any, but on other websites, there has been loose speculation about ADHD, mild Asperger's and other conditions. To be honest, I just stopped reading...

[Chanler]

Rino on another thread just reported that the Mccanns are being charged. Kate with manslaughter of Maddie. Hmmmmm, and they have now left the country? If true, why did police allow them to leave?

Absolutely some kind of agreements, pacts between law enforcement in both countries, and attorneys along with the mccanns word they would return, or else why were they allowed to leave?

I thought when Kate exited the bldg. with her attorney they had these looks of more than just stressed or tired from being interogated. The attorney acted as if he was in total control at that point. Explains it then, he now was hired to do his thing.

The Mccans have known for a few days, that's why they separated, different interviews, showing up alone except for counsel, they already knew what the police were planning on doing. Their attorneys worked out a deal, because of all the media, threats etc... I would be willing to bet cuddle cat on. :hand: :crazy:

I think that the manslaughter charge story is being carried by only one or two news sources, none of them major.

There are extradition treaties in place between the two nations.

[Love_Mama]

Love Mama,
The second line of the associated conditions that can be associated with columbas, in the article you linked to is heart defect.

An undiagnosed heart defect would be a factor in sedation/anesthesia issues, wouldn't it?

Texana, I'm not a doctor or a nurse. The first time I'd even heard about CHARGE is today when I looked it up. As to whether or not an undetected Heart defect.........might or might not be a factor in sedation,
I honestly at this point don't know what to think.

We all, everyone of us know that there has to be a reason why a parent would kill their own child. We look at these people, they don't exactly look like murderers and bank robber's don't alway's look like bank robber's.
AND, we, very few of us can look at someone say he or she look's like they'd kill their own child. Would anyone in the beginning of the Scott Peterson case think he'd murdered his pregant wife? Soon as we found out about Scott's girlfriend.........we all knew! That's what we're waiting for here.

We need time, we need some answer's in this case and here we are dealing with another Country (like Natalie/ Aruba case) and we're not getting much information. It makes ME crazy!

The first thing I always look for is a motive. IF the parents did it......then why, which is why I was wondering if Maddie has some rare disease that would demand a lot of attention throughout her life......like Autism.
I also think that the McMann's partied with at the Tapa's (several Doctor's were with them)..know or have an idea what happened. I wonder to what extent LE interviewed them!

xxxxxxxxxxoooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

[Texana]

Hi, Texana.

One would hope that any heart defect would have been diagnosed by her father, a cardiologist.

I've noticed that speculation about victims' disabilities seem to pop up whenever a high-profile girl goes missing or are found dead: JonBenet, Natalee Holloway, now Madeleine.

If he had reason to perform the tests. He might also have accepted that the columba was just that, and nothing more. I personally haven't found much credence in any of the theories that Maddie had other issues such as autism or adhd, but since the columba presence has been linked to other issues, that was interesting to me. She had one condition considered a birth defect--perhaps there were others not detected in normal exams.

After all, every year in Texas a high school football player drops dead in football practice at the start of the season--due to an undiagnosed heart condition. They pass their physicals easily and look to be in great shape, but the autopsies reveal a hidden heart defect.

If Maddie did suffer death after being given any kind of medication, I don't believe either one of her parents was incompetent enough to overdose her. I think she must have had an undiagnosed medical condition such as a heart defect or allergy that caused a severe reaction.

I'd still like for someone to come forward with Maddie to claim that $3 million plus reward, but the likelihood that something went terribly wrong with a simple plan to put the children to sleep early and soundly seems just as plausible to me that a person stalked and took a four year old--not the two year old--from a fortunately unlocked room or window.

[mjak]

If the parents did it I believe the motive was it was an accident. Either an accidental drug overdose or accidental death via discapline that went horribly wrong. I don't think this was a premediated crime with a thought out motive.

mjak

[Shazza]

If the parents did it I believe the motive was it was an accident. Either an accidental drug overdose or accidental death via discapline that went horribly wrong. I don't think this was a premediated crime with a thought out motive.

mjak
I dont think it is a premeditated crime either, but if they are guilty, keeping quiet and not telling the truth then this is definitely a crime they know they doing.

[sleuthin4fun]

If the parents did it I believe the motive was it was an accident. Either an accidental drug overdose or accidental death via discapline that went horribly wrong. I don't think this was a premediated crime with a thought out motive.

mjak


I am with you. I think that if they are responsible that it was an accident. Either overdose or a parent that got out of control. I have leaned more towards Gerry from the beginning but now, I think it could be that this demeanor and mannerisms throughout this whole ordeal may be related to him trying to cover-up to protect Kate. If this is the case no wonder his affect is so strange and he appears to be uncaring. As far as Kate I have yet to see an interview where she has held her head up and looked the host/camera directly in the face. Is that the look of shame? idk.
What a nightmare this whole thing is. How will their friends and family who have stood behind them feel if they are guilty. This would be the ultimate form of betrayl. I really hope that the McCanns are guilty of negilect only but, things don't look good. How wonderful would it be if someone came forward and said "I took Maddie because she was a beautiful little girl and I wanted her for myself." I pray that is the case. Love to Maddie xoxo

[Siren]

So Siren, why aren't the millions of parents who drug their kids HERE (prozac, ritalin, etc. etc. etc..) guilty of child abuse....???

This is an inflammatory statement. If it is culturally acceptable to give sleep meds to children in the UK that's a very different norm than here in the US.

I agree that many children are medicated by physicians as a quick fix. That is a very different issue than parents who have admittedly spent one hour a day with their children, drugged them to sleep so that they can party with their friends and have left their three children under the age of four sedated and unsupervised.

The debate regarding prozac, ritalin, etc is not what this is all about. This is about neglect of three beautiful children who most probably were abused via neglect. How can anyone parent three children with only one hour a day? One hour wasn't even enough time to give the sweet ones a bath, change them into clean PJs and read a few stories.

[Shazza]

This is an inflammatory statement. If it is culturally acceptable to give sleep meds to children in the UK that's a very different norm than here in the US.

I agree that many children are medicated by physicians as a quick fix. That is a very different issue than parents who have admittedly spent one hour a day with their children, drugged them to sleep so that they can party with their friends and have left their three children under the age of four sedated and unsupervised.

The debate regarding prozac, ritalin, etc is not what this is all about. This is about neglect of three beautiful children who most probably were abused via neglect. How can anyone parent three children with only one hour a day? One hour wasn't even enough time to give the sweet ones a bath, change them into clean PJs and read a few stories.
I agree Siren this is a different situation, being put on drugs by your physician for an illness is not giving drugs to your children so you will not be disturbed whilst out drinking 14 bottles of wine and dining with friends.
And being physicians they should have known better. Its bloody disgraceful.

[guineveer]

I think that the manslaughter charge story is being carried by only one or two news sources, none of them major.

I'll say. The one I read had an ad for marijuana seeds at the bottom!

I think I'll wait for CNN (or other reputable source.)

[CaliKid]

This is of great interest to me. Could you post your resources? Where did you hear this. It certainly could be motive.

Unfortunately, it is only a rumor that was discussed on several of the Madeleine forums. It began with the coloboma of her eye which is a symptom of CHARGE syndrome. When someone looked up CHARGE, it was reported that many children with it have autistic or Asperger-type behavior.

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=228512&highlight=autistic++autism++aspergers#228512

Also, the McCann relatives, when asked about Madeleine, all described her with comments like she's a handful, has lots of energy, keeps her parents constantly running, etc. Gerry McCann said (after she went missing) in a critical tone of voice, "What Madeleine wants, Madeleine gets".

[april4sky]

Unfortunately, it is only a rumor that was discussed on several of the Madeleine forums. It began with the coloboma of her eye which is a symptom of CHARGE syndrome. When someone looked up CHARGE, it was reported that many children with it have autistic or Asperger-type behavior.

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=228512&highlight=autistic++autism++aspergers#228512

Also, the McCann relatives, when asked about Madeleine, all described her with comments like she's a handful, has lots of energy, keeps her parents constantly running, etc. Gerry McCann said (after she went missing) in a critical tone of voice, "What Madeleine wants, Madeleine gets".


You see how dangerous rumors can be!!! And this rumor has been repeated time and again.

And what 3/4 year old child isn't often a handful. Madeleine sounds perfectly normal to me. I would be more concerned if she didn't behave like a typical small child.

[narlacat]

I'm a fence sitter, leaning towards the parents innocence.

[april4sky]

Interesting article from The Times.

Victims of the rumor mill?


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2414796.ece

[AfterMidnight]

Interesting article from The Times.

Victims of the rumor mill?


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article2414796.ece

Very good article, thank you.

Despite the secrecy laws in Portugal information has been leaked - by the police.

Despite all the rumors and innuendo, there is NO solid proof I've seen/read that the McCanns were "swingers", drunks, or sedating their children.

I'm still SOLIDLY on the fence until I see some proof/evidence.

[Brefie]

You see how danger