Calpol

[Salem]

Here are a few links which talk about Calpol. Pretty interesting stuff. Maybe some of you medical folks out there will weigh in with your opinions.

From what I am reading, Calpol should be used like we use Tylonol here in the states. However, it appears that Calpol does have some "sedating" properties.

http://emc.medicines.org.uk/emc/assets/c/html/DisplayDoc.asp?DocumentID=18969

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/311/6997/132

http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/30002011/

Apparently the "sedation" factor is just a bonus of the product. It does not appear that it is advertised for anything more than fever and pain.

Overdose can cause severe liver damage and overdose symptoms may not show up for 2 or more hours.

Salem

[Shazza]

Here are a few links which talk about Calpol. Pretty interesting stuff. Maybe some of you medical folks out there will weigh in with your opinions.

From what I am reading, Calpol should be used like we use Tylonol here in the states. However, it appears that Calpol does have some "sedating" properties.

http://emc.medicines.org.uk/emc/assets/c/html/DisplayDoc.asp?DocumentID=18969

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/311/6997/132

http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/30002011/

Apparently the "sedation" factor is just a bonus of the product. It does not appear that it is advertised for anything more than fever and pain.

Overdose can cause severe liver damage and overdose symptoms may not show up for 2 or more hours.

Salem

Very interesting, especially the link where they referred to how quick it calmed down a 3 yr old.

[Taximom]

This website: http://www.pharmweb.net/pwmirror/pwy/paracetamol/pharmwebpic.html
indicates:
"Paracetamol is also known as acetaminophen."

So unless it was "paracetamol PM" (making that up but it might exist), I don't see how it would cause sleepiness.

(Just FYI, of course.)

[STEADFAST]

Here are the ingredients of Calpol, from the product's patient information at :
http://www.mypharmacy.co.uk/medicines/medicines/c/calpol/calpol_infant_sachets_sf.htm


This product is a pink, strawberry flavoured oral suspension which contains 120 mg of the active ingredient Paracetamol per 5 ml of medicine.

It also contains the following ingredients: Maltitol liquid, glycerol, polysorbate 80, sorbitol solution, methyl parahydroxybenzoate (E218), propyl parahydroxybenzoate (E216), ethyl parahydroxybenzoate (E214), dispersible cellulose, xanthan gum and purified water.

It's active ingredient paracetamol is acetaminophen (Tylenol). It's not LIKE acetaminpphen. It IS acetaminophen. http://www.assistpainrelief.com/info/paracetamol/

The other ingredients are sugars, mold inhibitors, preservatives, thickeners and water. Just like Infant Tylenol.

The product contains no sedatives, mild or otherwise. Any sedating properties are in the minds either of the parent administering it or the child receiving it. Could be that children who are used to taking a spoonful of sugary liquid before bed begin to associate taking the liquid with sleeping.

[Taximom]

They do make paracetamol with codeine, but hopefully that wasn't used in this case! That's strong stuff for 2 and 4 yr old children.

[Elphaba]

Calpol is supposedly just paracetamol, which is acetaminophen, or, yes, better known to us as Tylenol. From my understanding, and own experience of having to take paracetamol when I was in Europe, it doesn't have a sedative quality to it. I do ponder what else is in Calpol, besides paracetamol, to give that sedative effect... unless people are adding an antihistamine to it... then yeah, it becomes a sedative, then.

[dellemma]

They do make paracetamol with Codeine, but hopefully that wasn't used in this case! That's strong stuff for 2 and 4 yr old children.



Very true! I was surprised at being able to get Paracetamol with Codeine at the drug store in London without a prescription.... but I couldn't get Neosporin without a prescription (I believe it is because it is an antibiotic ointment). It was rather funny when I tried to buy Neosporin in London. The look the pharmacist gave me made me feel like I just strolled in and tried to buy some crack. No Neosporin for me but I did leave with some Codeine LOL!

At any rate, I think the amount of Codeine in the OTC Paracetamol in England is a pretty low dose and usually the caffeine in the Paracetamol will counteract the sedative effect of the Codeine. Although they do have Paracetamol without caffeine. However I certainly would not feel comfortable giving it to a child. I felt odd taking it for a headache as an adult.


I don't know anything about Calpol though.

[angelmom]

:laugh: :laugh: Very true! I was surprised at being able to get Paracetamol with Codeine at the drug store in London without a prescription.... but I couldn't get Neosporin without a prescription (I believe it is because it is an antibiotic ointment). It was rather funny when I tried to buy Neosporin in London. The look the pharmacist gave me made me feel like I just strolled in and tried to buy some crack. No Neosporin for me but I did leave with some Codeine LOL!

At any rate, I think the amount of Codeine in the OTC Paracetamol in England is a pretty low dose and usually the caffeine in the Paracetamol will counteract the sedative effect of the Codeine. Although they do have Paracetamol without caffeine. However I certainly would not feel comfortable giving it to a child. I felt odd taking it for a headache as an adult.


I don't know anything about Calpol though.

Interesting. I wonder if they did indeed give them the stuff with codeine, since the stories keep referring to a sedative.

Isn't it interesting what is safe/unsafe depending on where you are? My pediatrician once suggested I try gripewater for my colicky baby, but I would have to go to the Indian grocery to get it. In England I hear it is commonly sold in the drugstores, but not here.

[KBUK]

Calpol here is a paracetomol for children i.e. smaller doses. They do a range for children up to 6 months and then a normal one. I have to say the times I've used it on my DD for fever, headache etc during the day she has not been affected by drowsiness so I doubt M's gave it to MM for that reason.

PS gripe water rocks!!! Best thing ever for a unsettled tummy but tastes like pond sludge!

[Edwards20]

Where is there a SOLID statement that Maddie was given this drug ? Is this coming from the blog ? The tabloids ? I keep reading that Gerry has admitted to using this "drug", but where is the original valid statement found ?

[JanetElaine]

I use paracetamol all the time... well that is, whenever I need a painkiller. Family brings it over for me from Europe because it's the only thing I can take that doesn't upset my stomach. People have said it in this thread before but I hope you don't mind me emphasizing that paracetamol does have NO sedating abilities whatsoever.

[Rino]

Where is there a SOLID statement that Maddie was given this drug ? Is this coming from the blog ? The tabloids ? I keep reading that Gerry has admitted to using this "drug", but where is the original valid statement found ?
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53156 post 13 from CaliKid. I'm just throwing this out because I don't know if it's true.

Diario de Noticias is a Portuguese newspaper, and one of the biggest hurdles we here at WS have had over the past 4 months is trying to figure out what kind of media we're dealing with. So I don't know if the DN is a respected paper or a rag like the National Enquirer.

That said, I want to point out the according to the 9/08 issue of the DN, Gerry McCann has admitted to sedating Madeleine.

http://dn.sapo.pt/2007/09/08/socieda..._madelein.html (http://dn.sapo.pt/2007/09/08/sociedade/casal_cann_e_suspeito_morte_madelein.html)

It's in Portuguese, but a translation of the 2nd paragraph says:

Kate is suspected of ‘homicide by negligence and hiding the body” ( the latter constitutes a sentence of upto two years in prison). A circumstance confirmed in principle by the spokesperson Justine McGuinness who said “ the portuguese police suspect Kate of having accidently killed her child”. However, sources connected to the inquiry have revealed that Gerry has admitted to the investigators he had administed a sedative to the children on the night of May 3rd. And one of the investigation lines followed at this moment is precisely, as the DN has gathered, the hypotheis that the child was sedated with an overdose of medication.

[Salem]

Where is there a SOLID statement that Maddie was given this drug ? Is this coming from the blog ? The tabloids ? I keep reading that Gerry has admitted to using this "drug", but where is the original valid statement found ?

Edwards - you would have to check the media links. Calikid also posted the link in one of the other threads, but I have to tell you.... there are so many threads and so much discussion going on right now, I have no idea where it might be.

The media reported that Gerry told the PLE that he used Calpol on the kids during his last interview on Friday, Sept 7, 2007.

Salem

[Brefie]

Here is my take on the sedation - especially where the twins are concerned...

It has been reported that police officers took the twins from their beds / cribs in the apartment. Now, if they were just 2, chances are they wore some kind of diaper to bed. The police should have changed those diapers and had them tested. I haven't seen anything to suggest they did...has anyone else??

[Texana]

Here is my take on the sedation - especially where the twins are concerned...

It has been reported that police officers took the twins from their beds / cribs in the apartment. Now, if they were just 2, chances are they wore some kind of diaper to bed. The police should have changed those diapers and had them tested. I haven't seen anything to suggest they did...has anyone else??

Reportedly they asked to test the twins but were denied. It's not clear whether they are in diapers or not.

The twins slept through all the commotion and being removed from their beds, lights, etc, which was what prompted the "maybe they were sedated" line of thought from the police.

[Texana]

Very true! I was surprised at being able to get Paracetamol with Codeine at the drug store in London without a prescription.... but I couldn't get Neosporin without a prescription (I believe it is because it is an antibiotic ointment). It was rather funny when I tried to buy Neosporin in London. The look the pharmacist gave me made me feel like I just strolled in and tried to buy some crack. No Neosporin for me but I did leave with some Codeine LOL!

At any rate, I think the amount of Codeine in the OTC Paracetamol in England is a pretty low dose and usually the caffeine in the Paracetamol will counteract the sedative effect of the Codeine. Although they do have Paracetamol without caffeine. However I certainly would not feel comfortable giving it to a child. I felt odd taking it for a headache as an adult.


I don't know anything about Calpol though.

You NeoHead, you, trying to score some antibiotic.

Just kidding, back to our regularly scheduled thread.

[poco]

Here are the ingredients of Calpol, from the product's patient information at :
http://www.mypharmacy.co.uk/medicines/medicines/c/calpol/calpol_infant_sachets_sf.htm


This product is a pink, strawberry flavoured oral suspension which contains 120 mg of the active ingredient Paracetamol per 5 ml of medicine.
It also contains the following ingredients: Maltitol liquid, glycerol, polysorbate 80, sorbitol solution, methyl parahydroxybenzoate (E218), propyl parahydroxybenzoate (E216), ethyl parahydroxybenzoate (E214), dispersible cellulose, xanthan gum and purified water.

It's active ingredient paracetamol is acetaminophen (Tylenol). It's not LIKE acetaminpphen. It IS acetaminophen. http://www.assistpainrelief.com/info/paracetamol/

The other ingredients are sugars, mold inhibitors, preservatives, thickeners and water. Just like Infant Tylenol.

The product contains no sedatives, mild or otherwise. Any sedating properties are in the minds either of the parent administering it or the child receiving it. Could be that children who are used to taking a spoonful of sugary liquid before bed begin to associate taking the liquid with sleeping.


So why the need for syringes then???? Weren't syringes supposedly found in the apartment?

[Texana]

So why the need for syringes then???? Weren't syringes supposedly found in the apartment?

Just one or two media reports, never confirmed by LE or the family.

[Mysticchic]

Both these parents are Drs so they could get anything they wanted to give Maddie.

[Squishified]

Both these parents are Drs so they could get anything they wanted to give Maddie.
Exactly

[Jeana (DP)]

If they gave the kids anything stronger, they most likely wouldn't have admitted to it. I suppose the evidence of that could be whereever Maddie is.

[Jeana (DP)]

So why the need for syringes then???? Weren't syringes supposedly found in the apartment?

They're are "syringes" without needles that are used to help guide medication down the back of the tongue/throat area of very small children who might otherwise spit it back out. Could that be what they meant?

[Texana]

They're are "syringes" without needles that are used to help guide medication down the back of the tongue/throat area of very small children who might otherwise spit it back out. Could that be what they meant?

Maybe so, I know what you are talking about. you use them with small children to shoot the medicine down their throats. It would be perfectly normal for doctors with small children to use those or have those on hand. It's much more efficient than trying to get a child to swallow medicine from a spoon or even of the medicine "tube type" spoons.

[JanetElaine]

They're are "syringes" without needles that are used to help guide medication down the back of the tongue/throat area of very small children who might otherwise spit it back out. Could that be what they meant?

I read in an earlier thread that it were definitely syringes with needles. That person provided a link too, I think, but I hope you'll forgive me for not going through all of those lengthy threads to find it.... :eek:

[Invisible]

They're are "syringes" without needles that are used to help guide medication down the back of the tongue/throat area of very small children who might otherwise spit it back out. Could that be what they meant?

OMG, Jeana, the syringe thing has alway bothered me, but I hadn't thought of the syringes for babies and toddlers. I hope that you're idea is the correct one and that the McC's were injecting their children using actual syringes.

[KR2tonenow]

Here are a few links which talk about Calpol. Pretty interesting stuff. Maybe some of you medical folks out there will weigh in with your opinions.

From what I am reading, Calpol should be used like we use Tylonol here in the states. However, it appears that Calpol does have some "sedating" properties.

http://emc.medicines.org.uk/emc/assets/c/html/DisplayDoc.asp?DocumentID=18969

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/311/6997/132

http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/30002011/




Apparently the "sedation" factor is just a bonus of the product. It does not appear that it is advertised for anything more than fever and pain.

Overdose can cause severe liver damage and overdose symptoms may not show up for 2 or more hours.

Salem


Hi Salem, do we know why the McCann's were using syringes? They found those in the bedside drawer in the room.:confused:

[CaliKid]

If they were injecting their children, you can bet it with stuff a lot stronger than Calpol.

[Salem]

Hi K2 - no, we don't know why the McCanns used syringes. I don't think it was the kind used to give small children medicine (the kind without needles) because surely the police would have recognized them as such and there would not have been any big issue. Especially if they were used with Calpol.

The drug thing has me confused, to say the least. Apparently, Gerry admitted to sedating the children and I thought he said with Calpol. But Calpol is Tylenol. It shouldn't sedate anyone. However, another poster (I'm sorry, I forgot who) says you can get Calpol with codiene in it, over the counter. I speculate maybe that is what was used OR the drug used was not Calpol. The children may not have been injected - but again I tend to think they were because it was apparently the finding of the syringes that made the police question the McCanns about it. That and the sleeping twins.

Now - GM, might have said in a moment of frustration "yes, I give my kids Calpol sometimes" without really meaning he shot them up with sedating drugs.......

Salem

[aussie_mum]

Wondering if you guys have heard of 'phenergan'? We can buy it in chemists here and 'some' people have been known to doses there kids up on it so the kids sleep while they have dinner parties etc (my ex MIL did it to her kids). It is also used on drs order to help some children get into a sleep routine if they are resistant.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100002055.html

[englishleigh]

Wondering if you guys have heard of 'phenergan'? We can buy it in chemists here and 'some' people have been known to doses there kids up on it so the kids sleep while they have dinner parties etc (my ex MIL did it to her kids). It is also used on drs order to help some children get into a sleep routine if they are resistant.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100002055.html

Yes!!! It's a prescription drug here in the US...it's for controlling nausea but makes one very, very sleepy.

[Barnaby]

Wondering if you guys have heard of 'phenergan'? We can buy it in chemists here and 'some' people have been known to doses there kids up on it so the kids sleep while they have dinner parties etc (my ex MIL did it to her kids). It is also used on drs order to help some children get into a sleep routine if they are resistant.

http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/100002055.html

Yes it is here also!
Dear God I would never have given my kids medication to make them sleep while I socialised. I remember using Calpol to lower a temperature when they were teething or similar but very sparingly & only if they were really sick. I keep use of medication to an absolute minimum in the family as I believe all have side effects.
Of course doctors are very liberal with the use of medications like they hand out prescriptions willy nilly to get patients off their hands. Go to see the doctor nowadays you will probably come out with an antibiotic regardess of the underlying condition - most probably a virus that will be totally resistant to the antibiotic in the first place & you lower your immune system in the process!

[CaliKid]

The only time I've EVER used a sedative on a child was when he or she was deathly ill with stomach flu and unable to keep anything down. And that was only under a doctor's supervision- giving phenergan was useful for keeping their little tummies calmed down so they weren't throwing up every 2 minutes.

[Siren]

I've been a pediatric RN for 30 years, I did give my children benadryl when we would have to fly. The purpose was not to sedate them but to help them with the pain that small children have when they experience pressure changes during take off and landing of an airplane. The medication was given along with encouraging them to drink from their bottles in order to help equilize the pressure in their ear drums. I had to medicate both of my children when we would fly but I feel that was an APPROPRIATE use of a medication and was done upon the advice of a physician. My children had a pediatrician and he was the overseer of my children's health care. I never used a medication to sedate my children into a stupor for the sole purpose of making them fall asleep so that I could party with my friends. The McCanns disgust me. I've just been waiting for this shoe to drop. Two doctors who spend about an hour a day with their children = a family. NOT!!! Trace the behavior of the McCanns. The only good thing they did was leave their babes in daycare while they vacationed. At least at that time they were recieving supervision and care....

[Salem]

This thing about sedating children bewilders me. I have given my son and my grandchildren cold medicine and prescription medicines as necessary, but to just give a child drugs because you feel the need to do something and they are in your way?????? If my child or my grandchildren can't sleep, they get hot milk with a little honey and some time in the rocking chair. I would never give them a sedative, unless it was as Cali used it - to stop nausea, or stop some kind of pain. But there would be a darn good reason and it would not have anything to do with socializing.

But remember, the McCanns are doctors, we mustn't think bad about them, because you know, they are doctors, and as doctors, well you know, they are doctors:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Salem

[Texana]

Ahh! Finally, someone else mentions phenergan! How else could O'Brien leave his "vomiting and sick" toddler with assurance the child would sleep and not throw up anymore?

Phenergan (I think that's the generic name) is excellent at controlling nausea but it's a powerful sleep-inducer. It's been around for decades and has been prescribed for children with severe stomach bugs or related nausea.

It's just the kind of thing a doctor might travel with, as a protective drug against severe stomach bugs or motion sickness.

My children never took it, but I did, especially when I had the flu and was pregnant. I remember it being mentioned as a possible antidote for the children if their symptoms of extreme nausea continued.

[solidarity]

Both these parents are Drs so they could get anything they wanted to give Maddie.

Both parents being doctors, I wonder if each administered a dose, without knowing the other had done so, and inadvertently in combination it became a lethal dose.

[aussie_mum]

Ahh! Finally, someone else mentions phenergan! How else could O'Brien leave his "vomiting and sick" toddler with assurance the child would sleep and not throw up anymore?

Phenergan (I think that's the generic name) is excellent at controlling nausea but it's a powerful sleep-inducer. It's been around for decades and has been prescribed for children with severe stomach bugs or related nausea.

It's just the kind of thing a doctor might travel with, as a protective drug against severe stomach bugs or motion sickness.

My children never took it, but I did, especially when I had the flu and was pregnant. I remember it being mentioned as a possible antidote for the children if their symptoms of extreme nausea continued.



Good point. There seems to be so much interweaving of different points. All of which come together to allow a terrible thing to happen.

[gord]

virgin poster here - been following the various threads and felt the need to contribute

The only " drug " that I have ever heard GM ever admit to giving the kids is Calpol . It is fairly common in the UK to gives kids Calpol to help lower temperature and as a very mild pain killer - It has very limited sedation qualities and to ever overdose you would have to get about two bottles down the throat of a kid - It is a thick syrupy solution that is administered oraly - I cannot ever see how you would inject calpol - Most young kids take the stuff with a small syringe through the mouth - that is it . If Maddy was been sedated it wasnt with Calpol - surely the police would have found traces of another drug - but nothing has come out on this .