Madeleine McCann DNA accurate match

[poco]

Sources close to the case said the traces - understood to be blood - were being treated by Portuguese detectives as strong evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment before her body was placed in the car.

Madeleine McCann went missing four months ago
Police in the Algarve apparently now believe they have enough evidence to charge her parents, Kate and Gerry, with "accidentally" killing the four-year-old and hiding her body. A file on the case will today be sent to a prosecutor who could order the couple to return to Portugal to face charges this week.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/10/wmaddy111.xml

[poco]

Sources close to the case said the traces - understood to be blood - were being treated by Portuguese detectives as strong evidence that Madeleine died in the apartment before her body was placed in the car.

Madeleine McCann went missing four months ago
Police in the Algarve apparently now believe they have enough evidence to charge her parents, Kate and Gerry, with "accidentally" killing the four-year-old and hiding her body. A file on the case will today be sent to a prosecutor who could order the couple to return to Portugal to face charges this week.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/10/wmaddy111.xml

THREE DNA MATCHES:

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=65542&in_page_id=34

But last night it was claimed that forensic tests have found three DNA matches to the missing girl.

One came from the window sill of the family's holiday apartment in Praia da Luz and two from the Renault Scenic car the McCanns hired 25 days after the girl disappeared.

[poco]

100% match

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2427017.ece

[philamena]

I am so confused about this case. The DNA that is being reported in today's UK newspapers, is this different DNA than what's been discussed before?

WHY do the police think Maddie was accidentally killed?

POCO:
Do you want me to erase my post? Sorry if I interfered with your thread.;0

[AfterMidnight]

So far I've seen nothing but newspaper reports and "confidental reports" that say the McCanns are guilty. The DNA sure as hell, according to the above-named sources, doesn't prove anything.

If LE in Portugal are so up on this case, why don't THEY come out and say they have a 99% match? Because they CAN'T?

I'm sick of the leaks or lies, whichever, from Portugal. Put up the FACTS, or shut up.

[englishleigh]

So far I've seen nothing but newspaper reports and "confidental reports" that say the McCanns are guilty. The DNA sure as hell, according to the above-named sources, doesn't prove anything.

If LE in Portugal are so up on this case, why don't THEY come out and say they have a 99% match? Because they CAN'T?

I'm sick of the leaks or lies, whichever, from Portugal. Put up the FACTS, or shut up.

Face it...they had something to do with Madeleine's disappearance. I don't know why it's so difficult to understand.

[philamena]

So far I've seen nothing but newspaper reports and "confidental reports" that say the McCanns are guilty. The DNA sure as hell, according to the above-named sources, doesn't prove anything.

If LE in Portugal are so up on this case, why don't THEY come out and say they have a 99% match? Because they CAN'T?

I'm sick of the leaks or lies, whichever, from Portugal. Put up the FACTS, or shut up.

DITTO AfterMidnight! :clap::clap:

[philamena]

Face it...they had something to do with Madeleine's disappearance. I don't know why it's so difficult to understand.


Dear englishleigh, the thing is we don't know that though. EVERYTHING so far has been speculative at best and rumor at worst.

[Rino]

So far I've seen nothing but newspaper reports and "confidental reports" that say the McCanns are guilty. The DNA sure as hell, according to the above-named sources, doesn't prove anything.

If LE in Portugal are so up on this case, why don't THEY come out and say they have a 99% match? Because they CAN'T?

I'm sick of the leaks or lies, whichever, from Portugal. Put up the FACTS, or shut up.
Actually they simply report what they know, or believe they know. The LE in Portugal does not discuss the matter openly thats why its up to us to take what we read with an open mind and try to discipher the information.

Why do you insist the leaks are lies?

[mic730]

Dear englishleigh, the thing is we don't know that though. EVERYTHING so far has been speculative at best and rumor at worst.

I agree! I have always been very skeptical of the McCann's story and lean towards they are involved but so far I know of nothing beyond specualtion and rumor.
And I voted they are involved in my poll because I feel that way but I don't know anything.

[englishleigh]

Dear englishleigh, the thing is we don't know that though. EVERYTHING so far has been speculative at best and rumor at worst.

Yes, so let me edit that to say, IF all we are hearing is the truth, then they HAD to have had something to do with it, or they are being framed by someone close to them, like some of the people they were with...

[philamena]

I agree! I have always been very skeptical of the McCann's story and lean towards they are invovled but so far I know of nothing beyond specualtion and rumor.
And I voted they are involved in my poll because I feel that way but I don't know anything.


I'm with you mic730.:blowkiss:

[happyanne]

So far I've seen nothing but newspaper reports and "confidental reports" that say the McCanns are guilty. The DNA sure as hell, according to the above-named sources, doesn't prove anything.

If LE in Portugal are so up on this case, why don't THEY come out and say they have a 99% match? Because they CAN'T?

I'm sick of the leaks or lies, whichever, from Portugal. Put up the FACTS, or shut up.

First of all, hello everyone this is my first post here but I've been reading them for a while.
Martin Brunt reported on Sky news that a sample of DNA taken from the car was an exact match for Madeine.
Since then it is reported in Gazeta Digital that no such information was given to Martin brunt and that it is a complete fabrication.
So what is going on here? have they deliberately given false information to Martin brunt in order to discredit him? or are they annoyed that he named his source when they keep breaking there own secrecy laws by these constant leaks to the press?

[philamena]

Yes, so let me edit that to say, IF all we are hearing is the truth, then they HAD to have had something to do with it, or they are being framed by someone close to them, like some of the people they were with...
I agree with you there hon! ;)

[mic730]

I agree with you there hon! ;)

Me too!!

[philamena]

First of all, hello everyone this is my first post here but I've been reading them for a while.
Martin Brunt reported on Sky news that a sample of DNA taken from the car was an exact match for Madeine.
Since then it is reported in Gazeta Digital that no such information was given to Martin brunt and that it is a complete fabrication.
So what is going on here? have they deliberately given false information to Martin brunt in order to discredit him? or are they annoyed that he named his source when they keep breaking there own secrecy laws by these constant leaks to the press?

Hi happyanne and welcome!
I'm not so sure it's false information or maybe wild speculation. I wish the PJ would hold a news conference and tell us what is what.

[mic730]

First of all, hello everyone this is my first post here but I've been reading them for a while.
Martin Brunt reported on Sky news that a sample of DNA taken from the car was an exact match for Madeine.
Since then it is reported in Gazeta Digital that no such information was given to Martin brunt and that it is a complete fabrication.
So what is going on here? have they deliberately given false information to Martin brunt in order to discredit him? or are they annoyed that he named his source when they keep breaking there own secrecy laws by these constant leaks to the press?

Welcome to WS! Happy you are posting.
I think this is like all high profile caes - info can be sensational, leave you on the edge of your seat and then be somewhat true, not true at all, planted by LE or totally been through the press corp. After following the Natalee Holloway case I am sadly all to used to this.

[philamena]

Welcome to WS! Happy you are posting.
I think this is like all high profile caes - info can be sensational, leave you on the edge of your seat and then be somewhat true, not true at all, planted by LE or totally been through the press corp. After following the Natalee Holloway case I am sadly all to used to this.

That is so true. Did we ever get that with Natalie's case!

[colomom]

One thing to consider folks....the Portuguese police are operating under strict secrecy laws and could get in alot of trouble with the Magistrate if they talk about details on a case, especially those such as these.

Therefore, the PJ can release information in only one way...leaks.

These leaks will help them to gauge a response. I believe that this is a actual tactic that the PJ use.

Does that change the way you see the "reports"?

[happyanne]

Well a statement from mr De Souza says that he spoke to martin B at 7pm but at no time did he ask about DNA and that the fact that he was told this is fa;se and that no such evidence exists. This was an official statement from the PJ.
Someones lying

[happyanne]

One thing to consider folks....the Portuguese police are operating under strict secrecy laws and could get in alot of trouble with the Magistrate if they talk about details on a case, especially those such as these.

Therefore, the PJ can release information in only one way...leaks.

These leaks will help them to gauge a response. I believe that this is a actual tactic that the PJ use.

Does that change the way you see the "reports"?

That is exactly what I think. At the moment they want public opinion set firmly agaoinst the Mccanns but they do NOT want to be named as the source of the leaks!

[philamena]

One thing to consider folks....the Portuguese police are operating under strict secrecy laws and could get in alot of trouble with the Magistrate if they talk about details on a case, especially those such as these.

Therefore, the PJ can release information in only one way...leaks.

These leaks will help them to gauge a response. I believe that this is a actual tactic that the PJ use.

Does that change the way you see the "reports"?

Absolutely!

[colomom]

OK, something else to consider....

It is being widely reported (still looking for links but I believe it to be accurate) the report that the PJ is submitting to the judicial system is thousands of pages long....

This is serious....

[Barnaby]

OK, something else to consider....

It is being widely reported (still looking for links but I believe it to be accurate) the report that the PJ is submitting to the judicial system is thousands of pages long....

This is serious....
I would imagine that it includes a complete account of the McCanns movements since the 3rd May along with all other evidence.

[CaliKid]

First of all, hello everyone this is my first post here but I've been reading them for a while.
Martin Brunt reported on Sky news that a sample of DNA taken from the car was an exact match for Madeine.
Since then it is reported in Gazeta Digital that no such information was given to Martin brunt and that it is a complete fabrication.
So what is going on here? have they deliberately given false information to Martin brunt in order to discredit him? or are they annoyed that he named his source when they keep breaking there own secrecy laws by these constant leaks to the press?

I'd like to add that for the past month or so there were numerous leaks in the Portuguese press about the McCanns' guilt, evidence and pending interviews and investigations. The PJ denied every single one of them- until Friday when they fessed up to purposely releasing information about the parents to try to put the squeeze on them.

[englishleigh]

I would imagine that it includes a complete account of the McCanns movements since the 3rd May along with all other evidence.

Oh, what has been leaked is just the tip of the iceberg, on which I would just about bet the farm...they have not even leaked out WHY they believe KATE is the perpetrator and NOT Gerry, why Gerry is just an accessory, and that's just one things we do not yet know. There's going to be tons of stuff.

[CaliKid]

I believe with all my heart that the PJ allowed themselves to look like bumbling fools to trick the McCanns into a false sense of security. In the meantime they questioned and requestioned witnesses, gathered and tested evidence and amassed records of every move the McCanns made. IMO, when it's time to take this case to court, it will be airtight. Otherwise they wouldn't have made the McCanns arguidos in the first place.

[BloodshotEye]

I totally agree with you, CaliKid.

[Barnaby]

I agree calikid & Englishleigh.
I do not think that the PJ have made the McCanns suspects without very good evidence. After all if they genuinely lost their little girl this would be so bad! I think that they already have enough evidence to convict!

[concernedperson]

Oh, what has been leaked is just the tip of the iceberg, on which I would just about bet the farm...they have not even leaked out WHY they believe KATE is the perpetrator and NOT Gerry, why Gerry is just an accessory, and that's just one things we do not yet know. There's going to be tons of stuff.

That is the big mystery is why the finger pointing is at Kate. I agree she is wound pretty tight but they must have something that delineates her vs. Gerry.

[englishleigh]

That is the big mystery is why the finger pointing is at Kate. I agree she is wound pretty tight but they must have something that delineates her vs. Gerry.

What if Gerry is truly the perp and the PJ knows it, but they are threatening to charge Kate thinking that Gerry loves his wife and will finally crack and confess, rather than allow his wife to be charged????

[CaliKid]

That is the big mystery is why the finger pointing is at Kate. I agree she is wound pretty tight but they must have something that delineates her vs. Gerry.

This is a mystery to me too.

The first inkling that we had about Kate being a toughy was when she and Gerry did that 100 days interview. Remember that, guys?

She said they "wouldn't be bullied out of Portugal". And I sat back and went whoa- where did this steely resolve come from? For months she'd looked like poor, pitiful, bruised Kate who probably didn't have a clue about what Gerry had done to Madeleine.

But for the first time I began to see her as a cold, hard woman and thought, just maybe. Just maybe she could've been in on it. But I always suspected that Kate might have helped Gerry, not been the one doing the dirty deed.

[sleuthin4fun]

I believe with all my heart that the PJ allowed themselves to look like bumbling fools to trick the McCanns into a false sense of security. In the meantime they questioned and requestioned witnesses, gathered and tested evidence and amassed records of every move the McCanns made. IMO, when it's time to take this case to court, it will be airtight. Otherwise they wouldn't have made the McCanns arguidos in the first place.


I agree!!!!

[Barnaby]

Well I think:
1. The fact that it was kate who put the kids to bed while Gerry was usually absent.
2. The witness statement that says she heard Madeleine crying for her father not her mother & who also says that she heard Kate lose her temper with the kids
3. Cadaver scent on her clothing & cuddle cat!

Just a few points that would lead to suspicion of kate.

I tell you if these two pulled this off when they are released from prison they should get into acting!

[colomom]

I believe with all my heart that the PJ allowed themselves to look like bumbling fools to trick the McCanns into a false sense of security. In the meantime they questioned and requestioned witnesses, gathered and tested evidence and amassed records of every move the McCanns made. IMO, when it's time to take this case to court, it will be airtight. Otherwise they wouldn't have made the McCanns arguidos in the first place.


Have to give some claps on that.....

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Salem]

And if you watch that first interview the McCann's did, it is written all over Kate's face, in my opinion. I have always thought it was Kate and continue to think so. Many people have said they see grief and pain in her face. In almost every interview, not necessarily the stills, but in the interviews, I have always seen "oh my god, what have I done and how do I find my way out of this" on her face. In one interview, where GM does most of the talking and all you really see is the right side of Kate's face, I could see it again. However, for me, that was a really stange interview because on the left side of her face, I did see grief and pain, but everytime she turned her head and only her right profile was showing, all I could see was guilt. I know, I know..... weird, I admit it.

Salem

[colomom]

What if Gerry is truly the perp and the PJ knows it, but they are threatening to charge Kate thinking that Gerry loves his wife and will finally crack and confess, rather than allow his wife to be charged????
http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/ad/idea.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

EXACTLY!!!

The PJ are very clever fellows....

[Salem]

I believe with all my heart that the PJ allowed themselves to look like bumbling fools to trick the McCanns into a false sense of security. In the meantime they questioned and requestioned witnesses, gathered and tested evidence and amassed records of every move the McCanns made. IMO, when it's time to take this case to court, it will be airtight. Otherwise they wouldn't have made the McCanns arguidos in the first place.

I agree Cali - and for those of us who have been reading/watching the media since day one, many of us have figured out how to read between the lines in the PJ's press comments. It's in the turn of the phrase. How many times did they say the McCanns were not suspects, "for now" meaning that they were definitely looking at the possibility that the McCanns were involved. Everytime PJ said they were not suspects, they gave a clue that it probably wasn't for long.

They are tricky and "manipulative" to some extent, those PJ. They also appear to be patient. :cool:

Salem

[MrsG728]

I wish there was a psychic we could count on... and PJ too. I think this would make it a lot easier. Where is that poor baby?

MG

[gord]

The DNA thing is full of holes - Usualy DNA evidence is used to put a complete stranger in the vicinity of a crime - In this case there would have been so much transference and cross contamination . There is bound to be tracess of Maddy's DNA all over the mother her clothes etc etc .

I have heard it said that if the body had been in the boot/trunk for any period of time then there would have been a mass of DNA evidence - you could have scooped it up . From what I can gather they are only finding cells which could have come from minute cell fragments - highly feasable for that to have come from clothes / buggys /anything.

The technology they use now a days is such that if you meet a stranger in the street - shake hands - and then the stranger goes on to comit a crime then your DNA could easily be found at the scene .

I think any defence lawyer would have a field day with this - if it ever got that far .

[Texana]

Not likely, shaking hands with a stranger and then leaving DNA. Most DNA at crime scenes is in the form of bodily fluids such as semen or blood.

[Edwards20]

Where did the original DNA sample came from ? How can you have a 100% match to a sample from something other than the actual person ?

Would it not be highly likely that the entire family has similar DNA ?

[Shazza]

Where did the original DNA sample came from ? How can you have a 100% match to a sample from something other than the actual person ?

Would it not be highly likely that the entire family has similar DNA ?
Im pretty sure that noone has the exact same DNA, just like noone has the exact same fingerprints.

[gord]

Not likely, shaking hands with a stranger and then leaving DNA. Most DNA at crime scenes is in the form of bodily fluids such as semen or blood.

and also skin fragments - I heard it today on the radio that we are talking about tiny DNA fragments - down to almost single cells .

this could easily come from transference through clothes etc

I will repeat myself - if the body had been in that trunk then there would have been a mass of DNA - this is not what I have been led to believe they found

[Show Me]

Here is another report on the evidence.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/news/thenews.html?in_page_id=1770


Substantial quantities of Madeleine McCann's hair were found in the boot of her parents' hire car, it's been revealed today. Investigators are convinced so much hair was found that her body must have been stored in the vehicle, which was hired more than three weeks after she disappeared.

I can understand a hair or two remaining on items the McCann's owned but substantial quantities? Unless Madeline had a hairbrush the McCann's carried with them.

I'm really confused on which of all the reports are true.

[Edwards20]

I am also confused on the reports ... who/what is reporting factual information. I agree that each person has an individual DNA. I just wonder what they used to obtain the main DNA sample used for comparison.

[april4sky]

and also skin fragments - I heard it today on the radio that we are talking about tiny DNA fragments - down to almost single cells .

this could easily come from transference through clothes etc

I will repeat myself - if the body had been in that trunk then there would have been a mass of DNA - this is not what I have been led to believe they found



I heard this a couple of days ago. There would be masses of DNA, particularly from a body that had been dead for 3 weeks.

[Barnaby]

I don't believe she was stored in the car way too risky, i think she was in it for a brief periodwhile the body was moved before dinner not 25 days later. One of the Tapas 9 had that car so either Gerry borrowed it or the other guy drove the body away.
If the body in a state of decomposition was in the car 25 days later it would have had to be tightly packaged in bin liner or something & less chance of loads of hairs there I think.

[gord]

I don't believe she was stored in the car way too risky, i think she was in it for a brief periodwhile the body was moved before dinner not 25 days later. One of the Tapas 9 had that car so either Gerry borrowed it or the other guy drove the body away.
If the body in a state of decomposition was in the car 25 days later it would have had to be tightly packaged in bin liner or something & less chance of loads of hairs there I think.

It has already been established that maddeline was seem alive at about 7.00pm that evening by others in the group ( unless you go with the theory that the whole group are part of it )

That would have given the Mcaans 45 minutes to an hour to kill Maddeline - get the body out of the flat and into the friends car , dispose of the body so well that it is still missing , get back to dinner and then carry on as normal until they found her " missing " at about ten .

doesnt seem possible to me

[poco]

It has already been established that maddeline was seem alive at about 7.00pm that evening by others in the group ( unless you go with the theory that the whole group are part of it )

That would have given the Mcaans 45 minutes to an hour to kill Maddeline - get the body out of the flat and into the friends car , dispose of the body so well that it is still missing , get back to dinner and then carry on as normal until they found her " missing " at about ten .

doesnt seem possible to me

Wouldn't be hard at all to kill and hide a body in a temporary location in 45 -minute time frame; and, besides, this is only one of a hundred possible scenarios.

[april4sky]

From the BBC. Contains interesting comments on DNA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6988485.stm

[BethyC]

Not getting the 'evidence' -- how can you tell if DNA from hair is from a live or dead body??? I thought hair was 'dead' on the living??

[SewingDeb]

I wonder how this will factor into the DNA results if they are using Kate and Gerry's DNA to compare with samples being tested.

'GERRY MAY NOT BE THE FATHER'

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/18977/-Gerry-may-not-be-the-father-

[T-Rex]

Just what this case needs--more drama!!

[Jdee]

Can't you test hair for drugs?

[Jeana (DP)]

Can't you test hair for drugs?

You sure can and its an excellent post.

[BloodshotEye]

Good thinking, Jdee!
You've probably predicted some analytical reports that will be forthcoming; hair analysis.

Great post, Jdee.

[Jdee]

Thanks! ;)

I watch WAY too much of Court TV and seen where they have studied the hair and found where this spouse or that spouse was poisened with Arsnec, but didn't know if it would work with sleeping drugs.

[twinkiesmom]

I wonder how this will factor into the DNA results if they are using Kate and Gerry's DNA to compare with samples being tested.

'GERRY MAY NOT BE THE FATHER'

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/18977/-Gerry-may-not-be-the-father-


I just want to throw out there that if the woman isn't the one with the fertility problems but is undergoing IVF, it's still possible for her to get pregnant the old fashioned way if she had another partner.:angel:

[englishleigh]

I just want to throw out there that if the woman isn't the one with the fertility problems but is undergoing IVF, it's still possible for her to get pregnant the old fashioned way if she had another partner.:angel:

Yes, and that chance would increase if she was a swingin' kinda mama with many partners...but I'm just sayin'...:silenced:

Personally, I can't account for the DNA being all weird in the testing, but this is one area where I'm on the McCanns' side: To me, Maddie looked like Gerry and Kate both...I think she's Gerry's.

[Jeana (DP)]

Thanks! ;)

I watch WAY too much of Court TV and seen where they have studied the hair and found where this spouse or that spouse was poisened with Arsnec, but didn't know if it would work with sleeping drugs.

Off topic, but some people say this is exactly why Britney Spears shaved her head. So Kfed didn't have any evidence of her drug abuse to take the kids.

Okay, I'm done.:rolleyes:

[AfterMidnight]

Off topic, but some people say this is exactly why Britney Spears shaved her head. So Kfed didn't have any evidence of her drug abuse to take the kids.

Okay, I'm done.:rolleyes:

BINGO! I have a son who is a crack addict and he has hair cuts frequently. I don't believe this would be of value in Maddie's case, however, unless drugging was an on-going practice. Drugs will not show up in hair 'till 30 days or so have passed. If they drugged her on the night of her disappearance, or even the night before, drugs would NOT show up in her hair. There is a time frame for hair growth and in this case, it was too short.

[CaliKid]

Sorry if this has been posted. I'm sure every single person in the McCann household used a brush or comb. That would give hair samples from both parents, Madeleine and the twins. So if they're trying to narrow down the DNA and apply it specifically for Maddie, all they would have to do is collect hair samples from the brushes and from the rest of the family. Whoever's hair isn't a complete match to the found DNA but is a "family" match (not a stranger) is hers. Right?

[SewingDeb]

I just want to throw out there that if the woman isn't the one with the fertility problems but is undergoing IVF, it's still possible for her to get pregnant the old fashioned way if she had another partner.:angel:

Good point. I also wondered if Murat ever donated sperm in the UK.:eek:

[SewingDeb]

Sorry if this has been posted. I'm sure every single person in the McCann household used a brush or comb. That would give hair samples from both parents, Madeleine and the twins. So if they're trying to narrow down the DNA and apply it specifically for Maddie, all they would have to do is collect hair samples from the brushes and from the rest of the family. Whoever's hair isn't a complete match to the found DNA but is a "family" match (not a stranger) is hers. Right?

Makes sense to me. They would find hers by process of elimination.