Mary Winkler - ALL threads merged. Please post all Mary Winkler-related topics here.

[WindChime]

I am watching the program now and I don't believe a word she is saying but that's JMO

[Squishified]

I just can't bear to watch it. It would make me too mad and I have enough stress going on!

[altruist1000]

She is NOT an honest person. She is full of lies, lies & more lies. Ummm's & ahhh's, little details. This is what a LIAR does, doesn't have the details, lots of pauses trying to come up with something but unsure about tripping herself up.

She, I suspect, was the one trying to put the "baby to sleep" by suffocation & was STOPPED by Mathew. Now I understand why she murdered him. Didn't want anybody to know that she had attempted to murder her youngest child.

JMHO

Please dear Lord, do not allow these children to be returned to this abomination of humanity.

[MagicRose99]

Oprah has never been very high on my list... and this proves why. She has a habit of perpetrating peoples lies as truth. I hope the viewership laughs their a**es off at Mary and condemns her for the murderer she is.

[OhSal]

She is NOT an honest person. She is full of lies, lies & more lies. Ummm's & ahhh's, little details. This is what a LIAR does, doesn't have the details, lots of pauses trying to come up with something but unsure about tripping herself up.

She, I suspect, was the one trying to put the "baby to sleep" by suffocation & was STOPPED by Mathew. Now I understand why she murdered him. Didn't want anybody to know that she had attempted to murder her youngest child.

JMHO

Please dear Lord, do not allow these children to be returned to this abomination of humanity.

[B]I couldn't agree with you more! I watched the interview with Oprah and actually think Oprah was holding back some sneers and snickers as she was interviewing Mary..........am surprised Oprah didn't roll her eyes a time or two just listening to this pathetic woman try to make out that Matt was a kinky monster who would stoop to smothering a child! BS!

So Mary just wanted to talk, huh............yeah right!..She said she really didn't think the gun was loaded but why would a woman hold an empty gun on a man in his sleep to try and talk to him........oops!

The highlite of the interview for me was when Lisa Bloom spoke up and said that Mary should have supervised visitation with her children but NOT CUSTODY..................AMEN!

[Jeana (DP)]

I am watching the program now and I don't believe a word she is saying but that's JMO

I didn't believe it either and my kids, who knew nothing of this case before hand, think she's full of it.:D

[Dryad]

I don't know too much about this case, but saw her on Oprah today and it really hit home when Lisa Bloom said "This woman obviously has impulse issues" which is something to consider when trying to get her kids back. We all know how frustrating and stressful it is to take care of small children and with her now being a single mother, what happens if she "snaps" again? How do we know they are safe with a mother who can shoot a loaded gun at her sleeping husband? What if the kids get on her nerves and she loses control? How do we know this hasn't already happened?

[Glow]

Well I guess that I have to be the odd one here and say that I just dont know what to believe after watching her. :twocents:

[BeeBee]

A woman who is really scared of her husband would not hold what she thought to be an empty gun on him. She would know he would yank that gun from her and beat the snot out of her. Nope, women who are actually as scared as she claimed to be would never do that.

[OhSal]

<<<A woman who is really scared of her husband would not hold what she thought to be an empty gun on him. She would know he would yank that gun from her and beat the snot out of her. Nope, women who are actually as scared as she claimed to be would never do that.>>

You're right, BeeBee......We both heard her say she was amazed at it being loaded......or words to that effect........BS! How that jury believed her is beyond me!:banghead:

[izzyB]

there were financial irregularities with their bank account that were exposed the day before matt was killed. mary had been in charge of finances. matt died with a full bladder, so there is evidence that she shot him in the back after he had been asleep all night and had yet to urinate like he might do upon awakening. she fled with the girls to another state before she was apprehended by law enforcement. she made sure the phone was unplugged, never called for help and locked the door behind her.

whatever the circumstances, he was killed in cold blood. her walking free is a sad day for American Justice.

[OhSal]

there were financial irregularities with their bank account that were exposed the day before matt was killed. mary had been in charge of finances. matt died with a full bladder, so there is evidence that she shot him in the back after he had been asleep all night and had yet to urinate like he might do upon awakening. she fled with the girls to another state before she was apprehended by law enforcement. she made sure the phone was unplugged, never called for help and locked the door behind her.

whatever the circumstances, he was killed in cold blood. her walking free is a sad day for American Justice.

Yes it sure is...........I forgot about his full bladder so maybe Mary didn't even get up at all (or wasn't kicked out of bed)to tend to the baby......I'd believe Mary got up to blow his brains out....
Wasn't it Lisa Bloom who said the motel in which Mary and the girls stayed also had the phone unplugged so the girls couldn't call their dad?

Sly like a fox isn't the witch Mary?

[Jeana (DP)]

Yes it sure is...........I forgot about his full bladder so maybe Mary didn't even get up at all (or wasn't kicked out of bed)to tend to the baby......I'd believe Mary got up to blow his brains out....
Wasn't it Lisa Bloom who said the motel in which Mary and the girls stayed also had the phone unplugged so the girls couldn't call their dad?

Sly like a fox isn't the witch Mary?

So they couldn't dial 911, not call the dad.

I don't much like Oprah, but I've got to say I think she wanted to take a cattle prod to Mary. I also don't think she believed one word out of her mouth.

[OhSal]

So they couldn't dial 911, not call the dad.

I don't much like Oprah, but I've got to say I think she wanted to take a cattle prod to Mary. I also don't think she believed one word out of her mouth.


Thge oldest knew he was "hurt" because she had seen Matt lying on the floor and Mary had told her Daddy was "hurt"...........so if you know kids one would probably whisper to the other and they'd be concerned about their Daddy.......that had to be a miserable car ride to that motel.........

cattle prod?..........even better!

[jilly]

I could only watch half the interview. She's a pathetic liar imo. She couldn't even come up with anything resembling abuse.
I just hope she doesn't get custody of her children. That is a very scary thought.

[KR2tonenow]

I could only watch half the interview. She's a pathetic liar imo. She couldn't even come up with anything resembling abuse.
I just hope she doesn't get custody of her children. That is a very scary thought.

Mary had difficulty making eye contact wth Oprah. She is clearly Emotionally Disturbed. She killed her husband. Were there bruises on her body when they found her, NO. Why did the jury feel sorry for her, I wonder.:doh: She should have been tried out of the county. If this had been a man, he would have gotten life.

She is not capable of taking care of 3 children. The children have been traumatized enough!!

[jilly]

Mary had difficulty making eye contact wth Oprah. She is clearly Emotionally Disturbed. She killed her husband. Were there bruises on her body when they found her, NO. Why did the jury feel sorry for her, I wonder.:doh: She should have been tried out of the county. If this had been a man, he would have gotten life.

She is not capable of taking care of 3 children. The children have been traumatized enough!!

I still find it hard to believe that she's out walking around never mind on Oprah! I agree - "She is not capable of taking care of 3 children." Hopefully the family court Judge will see that her having custody is not in the best interest of the children. She killed their father for goodness sakes!

[the original tez]

I know I didn't buy a word of her story today. It makes me sick to see her on TV saying how much she "loves" Matthew. :doh::doh: I think that Oprah was disgusted with her also. I really don't like Oprah, but I thought she did a fair job interviewing Mary Winkler.

I caught the part where Mary said she's apologized to Matthew's parents and that she misses them. Personally, I don't think she's ever given them a sincere apology, because I don't believe she's sorry that she killed Matthew. :hand:

I wonder if this interview can be used against her in the civil suit that Matthew's parents have filed?:confused::confused:

I have to agree with Lisa Bloom, Mary does have poor impulse control. I don't think she should ever regain custody of those poor children. Highly supervised visitation should be all she is allowed! IMO, JMO, and all that jazz....

[Whiner]

That woman is devoid of all emotion. And she's still acting like she's making it up as she goes along. She wiped the blood from his mouth out of instinct - she said she didn't know what else to do because she "didn't know how he was hurt". Duh - you shot him honey. :waitasec: It's really no different than Phil Spector. If it was an accident, then call 911. How this woman got away with cold blooded murder is something I'll never understand.

[Jeana (DP)]

That woman is devoid of all emotion. And she's still acting like she's making it up as she goes along. She wiped the blood from his mouth out of instinct - she said she didn't know what else to do because she "didn't know how he was hurt". Duh - you shot him honey. :waitasec: It's really no different than Phil Spector. If it was an accident, then call 911. How this woman got away with cold blooded murder is something I'll never understand.

I agree. You could visibly see the wheels of her brain turning around trying to formulate responses to Oprah's questions. The truth doesn't take that long to come out. The answers should have flowed off her tongue like oil after this long.

[jilly]

I know I didn't buy a word of her story today. It makes me sick to see her on TV saying how much she "loves" Matthew. :doh::doh: I think that Oprah was disgusted with her also. I really don't like Oprah, but I thought she did a fair job interviewing Mary Winkler.

I caught the part where Mary said she's apologized to Matthew's parents and that she misses them. Personally, I don't think she's ever given them a sincere apology, because I don't believe she's sorry that she killed Matthew. :hand:

I wonder if this interview can be used against her in the civil suit that Matthew's parents have filed?:confused::confused:

I have to agree with Lisa Bloom, Mary does have poor impulse control. I don't think she should ever regain custody of those poor children. Highly supervised visitation should be all she is allowed! IMO, JMO, and all that jazz....

I was wondering the same thing too Tez.

[nanandjim]

This woman is either a manipulative liar or she has some type of mental defect, IMO. I yelled at the television several times, "Just spit it out already!" I got the impression that Oprah thought Mary's story was farfetched.

A few things that I want to know: (1) If it were an accident, why didn't she call 911? After all, Matthew bled to death. (2) Second, if Matthew was the mastermind of the check kiting scheme, why wasn't his name on any of the accounts? (3) Third, was it merely a coincidence that Matthew was murdered on the day that Mary was supposed to bring him in to the bank for a meeting about her illegal practices?

[fundiva]

Thge oldest knew he was "hurt" because she had seen Matt lying on the floor and Mary had told her Daddy was "hurt"...........so if you know kids one would probably whisper to the other and they'd be concerned about their Daddy.......that had to be a miserable car ride to that motel.........

cattle prod?..........even better!
Mary also took the gun with her. For what purpose no one knows, but it would not have been in the best interests of the children to have it with. IMO I think she planned to use it again. For that reason alone I wouldn't give her custody of her children.

[OhSal]

Mary also took the gun with her. For what purpose no one knows, but it would not have been in the best interests of the children to have it with. IMO I think she planned to use it again. For that reason alone I wouldn't give her custody of her children.

Good point,Fundiva!

[tgbouldin]

I live in McMinnville, TN where Matthew and Mary lived for a short while. Matthew was my son's bible teacher at school. (He attends a private christian school). My son and all the boys that Matthew taught absolutely loved Matthew and they called him "Wink" or "Mr. Wink". He was so friendly and nice and the boys really admired him.

I think Mary got away with murder. He was shot in the back and she left him to bleed to death. I just can not get past those facts.

[oceanblueeyes]

Mary also took the gun with her. For what purpose no one knows, but it would not have been in the best interests of the children to have it with. IMO I think she planned to use it again. For that reason alone I wouldn't give her custody of her children.

How true. Mary said Matthew was dead when she left. Remember in her interview she said a body changes color immediately after they die.

SO if she KNEW Matthew was dead then why oh why did she load up the shotgun AND shells along with her children?

She will never own up to anything much less this but imo it is obvious to me she had full intentions of using that gun again when she took it.

Also how strange. Here she had already brutally murdered one man but when questioned by LE she was still raging........this time about wanting to rip her father's head off.

This woman is scary. I see a psychopath that got lucky by having sleazy lawyers who are known to get guilty people off.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

Mary's boyfriend is from Paris.

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070918/NEWS08/709180309

[MagicRose99]

He's got guts dating that murderous b....

[oceanblueeyes]

He's got guts dating that murderous b....

He better make sure he doesn't have firearms in his home or he could loose his "guts" if Mary thinks he has got to go.

Strange she was in jail until latter August or the first of September 06 and she met her next honey in October 06. Mary sure seems to make a move at lightning speed.

Wonder what Matthew's little girls think about the replacement of their daddy?

imo

[Nore]

How true. Mary said Matthew was dead when she left. Remember in her interview she said a body changes color immediately after they die.

SO if she KNEW Matthew was dead then why oh why did she load up the shotgun AND shells along with her children?

She will never own up to anything much less this but imo it is obvious to me she had full intentions of using that gun again when she took it.

Also how strange. Here she had already brutally murdered one man but when questioned by LE she was still raging........this time about wanting to rip her father's head off.

This woman is scary. I see a psychopath that got lucky by having sleazy lawyers who are known to get guilty people off.

imoo
------------

Hi Ocean, I dont understand mary saying a body changes color immediately.I have been with five people when they passed, none of them changed right away~a bit whiter maybe,maybe not.I held my son in my arms for 1/2 hour,he was the same.
I read on the Tenn.paper the hospital (someone) said she should remain single. Now does anyone beside me think that she should be Alone? no children~visitation maybe but not permanent residng.I am praying for Matthews parents.

[Whiner]

Mary's boyfriend is from Paris.

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070918/NEWS08/709180309

Thanks for posting - it's interesting article.

[oceanblueeyes]

------------

Hi Ocean, I don't understand mary saying a body changes color immediately.I have been with five people when they passed, none of them changed right away~a bit whiter maybe,maybe not.I held my son in my arms for 1/2 hour,he was the same.
I read on the Tenn.paper the hospital (someone) said she should remain single. Now does anyone beside me think that she should be Alone? no children~visitation maybe but not permanent residing.I am praying for Matthews parents.

Maybe it was because the poor man was bleeding to death.

So sorry about your son. I cant fathom the pain you must have felt Nore. My heart goes out to you.

Well today the Judge decided that Mary does not get the children back. He did give her supervised visits and she can call the girls every other day to talk to them.

What absolutely is heart wrenching to me is the thought that the older girls may not want to talk to or see their mother at all but will be forced now that the Judge has taken their choices away.

Allie and Patricia did not testify today.

But guess what? Dr. Keith Ablow testified for the Winklers.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

Thanks for posting - it's interesting article.

You are most welcome.

Ocean

[chicoliving]

NASHVILLE, Tenn. — A woman who killed her minister husband with a shotgun can begin supervised visits with her three young daughters on Sept. 29, a judge ruled Wednesday.

Judge Ron Harmon said he will draw up rules and locations for the visits within a few days and Mary Winkler can phone her children every other day.

The visits will be supervised because of worries about Winkler's mental health, the judge said, and physical security for the children will also be provided if needed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297395,00.html

[Mygirlsadie]

Why this lady is even out of prison is beyond me...those poor children.






NASHVILLE, Tenn. — A woman who killed her minister husband with a shotgun can begin supervised visits with her three young daughters on Sept. 29, a judge ruled Wednesday.

Judge Ron Harmon said he will draw up rules and locations for the visits within a few days and Mary Winkler can phone her children every other day.

The visits will be supervised because of worries about Winkler's mental health, the judge said, and physical security for the children will also be provided if needed.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,297395,00.html

[oceanblueeyes]

Why this lady is even out of prison is beyond me...those poor children.

At least these children remain in the home of their grandparents and the Judge did say he has concerns about MWs mental health. He also said he would provide physical security for these children while in the presence of their mother. So imo he is taking this case very seriously and will be going at this very slowly to ensure the children's best interest are protected.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

The tides are turning against Mary. The more she speaks her lies the more she ruffles feathers.

http://www.independentappeal.com/

Ocean

[fundiva]

Mary's boyfriend is from Paris.

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070918/NEWS08/709180309
Whether you are a guy or a gal and run into a potential date that told you "we can't seriously date until I get out of prison for murdering my husband and, oh by the way, I will be in a mental hospital until such and such date" would you even go there? This guy has serious issues.

[oceanblueeyes]

Whether you are a guy or a gal and run into a potential date that told you "we can't seriously date until I get out of prison for murdering my husband and, oh by the way, I will be in a mental hospital until such and such date" would you even go there? This guy has serious issues.

I agree but I think it goes hand and hand. To date a murderer and think it is perfectly normal has to be someone who has issues of their own.

Reminds me of all these women that marry men on death row or send them sexy love connection letters. They too have deep seeded issues of their own imo.

But I believe that Mary is very manipulative and always uses people to her best advantage. Who knows... the farmhouse that she will be renting for $150 per month may belong to him.

imoo

[Nore]

I agree but I think it goes hand and hand. To date a murderer and think it is perfectly normal has to be someone who has issues of their own.

Reminds me of all these women that marry men on death row or send them sexy love connection letters. They too have deep seeded issues of their own imo.

But I believe that Mary is very manipulative and always uses people to her best advantage. Who knows... the farmhouse that she will be renting for $150 per month may belong to him.

imoo
-----------

Hi Ocean, thanks so much for the web site~very interesting read.I agree to date and think of something more serious with someone who murdered their husband~well there would have to be problems on his end.I feel mary will evenutually get her just rewards,just do not want her having custody of or being alone with the girls.....She may feel as my mother did "you look just like your father and you act just like him!!" WHACK!
Prayers for the Winkler Sr.s..

[the original tez]

Whether you are a guy or a gal and run into a potential date that told you "we can't seriously date until I get out of prison for murdering my husband and, oh by the way, I will be in a mental hospital until such and such date" would you even go there? This guy has serious issues.

To answer your question, NO! I'd be running away so quick, it'd look like my butt was on fire and my hair was catching fire!!!! LOL:p

[the original tez]

The tides are turning against Mary. The more she speaks her lies the more she ruffles feathers.

http://www.independentappeal.com/

Ocean

Thanks Ocean. I have felt the way those folks feel now. I think she got away with cold-blooded murder. I don't want to hear how she did 7 months, so she was adequately punished. She can't even keep her stories straight. She's changed them at least three times by my count. I sincerely hope that Matthew's parents are able to use her appearance on Oprah to help their civil case.

[oceanblueeyes]

Thanks Ocean. I have felt the way those folks feel now. I think she got away with cold-blooded murder. I don't want to hear how she did 7 months, so she was adequately punished. She can't even keep her stories straight. She's changed them at least three times by my count. I sincerely hope that Matthew's parents are able to use her appearance on Oprah to help their civil case.

Her lies continue.

Oh and guess what else she told in the custody hearing? NOW she said that she told Diane Winkler about the abuse and that Diane told her she had to tell Matthew "no more" and that Diane told her she had suffered abuse too when she was a young wife and mother. (paraphrasing) I will try to find the link but I think it was the JacksonSun.

BUT THERE AGAIN Mary cannot keep her lies straight! She testified under oath in her criminal trial that she told NO ONE about the abuse.:banghead:
She is trying to cause dissension between Diane and Dan now. I am sure now that this explains the photo of them taken while in the hearing that we have seen. They probably were both livid that this forked tongue killer could utter such lies and nonsense.

The more she talks the more she lies and like all pathological liars they cant keep their lies straight.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

To answer your question, NO! I'd be running away so quick, it'd look like my butt was on fire and my hair was catching fire!!!! LOL:p

Well heck I even feel sorry for his children. One is in HS and the other is 13 years old. Can you imagine how they have been ridiculed about daddy's special girlfriend?

imoo

[Pepper]

I watched an episode of "Snapped" on Oxygen channel last night. It was about Dixie Schlessinger who shot her husband in the back of his head with a shotgun while he was sleeping. Sounds alot like Winkler, except that Dixie was actually abused - there were lots of witnesses to her being beaten by her husband over and over again. Poor Dixie got 40 yrs. and I think she actually was a victim - though murder is never the right answer.

Mary is a lying XXXX, IMO, who was lucky and cunning enough to get away with cold-blooded murder. She had choices. She makes me :sick:

[Mygirlsadie]

They played the episode of Oprah where Mary was on & I watched it again and all I can say is guilty as sin!!! Just the way she acted was annoying and obviously she is full of crap. The whole ''stripper shoe'' thing just cracked me up. I thought the shoes were cute by the way!.. Mary might have gotten away with murder this time but believe me in one way or another she will pay for what she did.

[Pepper]

Sorry Chico! I just never thought that sl*t was an obscenity! :silenced:

[chicoliving]

Well saying she's a lying murderer is acceptable but with all the fussy ado about the heels and the wig well, the other just doesn't seem to apply. ;)

[Curious J]

I followed the case but stopped somewhat before the trial. Did LE find pornography and other dubuous stuff on Matthew's computer. I don't recall that as having been proven true, but that is the information going around within other circles, not WS. What about his controlling or split personality?

[Pepper]

I watched an episode of "Snapped" on Oxygen channel last night. It was about Dixie Schlessinger who shot her husband in the back of his head with a shotgun while he was sleeping. Sounds alot like Winkler, except that Dixie was actually abused - there were lots of witnesses to her being beaten by her husband over and over again. Poor Dixie got 40 yrs. and I think she actually was a victim - though murder is never the right answer.

Mary is a lying XXXX, IMO, who was lucky and cunning enough to get away with cold-blooded murder. She had choices. She makes me :sick:

I got the name wrong on this. It was Dixie Shanahan! Very interesting program that repeats Oct. 17.

http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/biography_story/2092:2669/1/Snapped_-_Women_Who_Kill_Dixie_Shanahan.htm

[oceanblueeyes]

I followed the case but stopped somewhat before the trial. Did LE find pornography and other dubuous stuff on Matthew's computer. I don't recall that as having been proven true, but that is the information going around within other circles, not WS. What about his controlling or split personality?

The only one that shows they may have a split personality is Mary Winkler imo. I would love to know what personality disorder she truly suffers from. She seems to be an habitual liar and cannot remember the last lie she told. I have never seen a defendant change their story so many times as this woman has done.

They did find on the three computers that they had had for about 10 years about 240 thumbnail images that were retrieved from the deleted file. For all we know they may have been spam emails. I sure get them every now and then and I have never watched porn in my life. I delete them immediately into the delete file.

I saw nothing in Matthew's profile that showed him controlling, quite the opposite.

1. Mary went to college in another town.
2. Mary had worked at times throughout their marriage.
3. Mary made the decision to get the new van even though Matthew was worried they couldn't afford it.
4. Mary went to her family's home twice the year before Matthew died. She went with the children leaving Matthew home going all the way across the state 10 hours away from him. She was gone several days each time.
5. Mary had full control over the finances. In the trial they couldn't even find a check that he had ever signed.
6. Mary was the one that deposited the scam checks that were made out to her only. Mary had the scam letter in her van when arrested.
7. Mary was the one that deposited, moved and check kited all checks and she is the one that made withdrawals.
8. Mary called the bank 16 times on her personal cell phone two days before Matthew was murdered.
9. Mary is the one on the day before Matthew's death went around and withdrew $100 each from 5 accounts.
10. Mary is the one that took this money with her on her flee trip.
11. Mary was not isolated but often seen out and about at eating places, video stores, church, Wally World and at the salon getting her hair fixed and cut.


Not one person ever saw Matthew abuse his wife or children. In fact much more has been written about him and the softness he showed to many others including his little girls. Mary however had been chastised by the Elders when she was in McMinnville about the way she treated her children when they were at church.

Mary calmly identified the porn photos even though she tried to pretend she never looked at them.

Not one allegation she has said has any facts to back any of it up. Not one thing.

imoo

[the original tez]

Her lies continue.

Oh and guess what else she told in the custody hearing? NOW she said that she told Diane Winkler about the abuse and that Diane told her she had to tell Matthew "no more" and that Diane told her she had suffered abuse too when she was a young wife and mother. (paraphrasing) I will try to find the link but I think it was the JacksonSun.

BUT THERE AGAIN Mary cannot keep her lies straight! She testified under oath in her criminal trial that she told NO ONE about the abuse.:banghead:
She is trying to cause dissension between Diane and Dan now. I am sure now that this explains the photo of them taken while in the hearing that we have seen. They probably were both livid that this forked tongue killer could utter such lies and nonsense.

The more she talks the more she lies and like all pathological liars they cant keep their lies straight.

imoo

It's almost like she thinks she hasn't caused enough damage to Matthew's family. She just keeps going. Someday though, she will pay!:hand:

[oceanblueeyes]

The Appeal Court has ordered a stay blocking the visitation between Mary and the three children that was to have commenced today.

http://www.myfoxmemphis.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=4491862&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

http://www.wmctv.com/global/story.asp?s=7144468

[Annie]

Mary's attorney says the judges who issued the stay have never even seen the transcripts of the hearing. I bet they have seen enough of Mary Winkler to know she is a dangerous woman. I can't believe anyone would want to put children in the care of a woman who could do what she did only a year and a half ago. I know this was just visitation, but I think Mary should just let her children settle down and put this behind them as much as possible. Maybe later on she could gradually be allowed back into their lives. No child should ever have to see what Mary's children saw.

[oceanblueeyes]

Mary's attorney says the judges who issued the stay have never even seen the transcripts of the hearing. I bet they have seen enough of Mary Winkler to know she is a dangerous woman. I can't believe anyone would want to put children in the care of a woman who could do what she did only a year and a half ago. I know this was just visitation, but I think Mary should just let her children settle down and put this behind them as much as possible. Maybe later on she could gradually be allowed back into their lives. No child should ever have to see what Mary's children saw.

I agree Annie. I think all Judges in the area are very familiar with the Mary Winkler case. Remember Mary's attorney, Turner, had already filed an appeal before this court and their's was denied.

I actually think it would be best if the visits started out at a court appointed psychiatrist's office in group therapeutic sessions until such time he/she could be assured this is the best thing for the girls or that it is causing more pain than gain by being forced to be around their mother.

imoo

[Nore]

I agree Annie. I think all Judges in the area are very familiar with the Mary Winkler case. Remember Mary's attorney, Turner, had already filed an appeal before this court and their's was denied.

I actually think it would be best if the visits started out at a court appointed psychiatrist's office in group therapeutic sessions until such time he/she could be assured this is the best thing for the girls or that it is causing more pain than gain by being forced to be around their mother.

imoo
------------
Hi Ocean and Annie, more pain than gain!! the
right words.If the girls are showing signs of being more secure,putting the horrible tragedy out of their minds~the last thing they need is to see their mother.Does she realize at all what she exposed the two older girls to? It is all about Mary and what Mary wants.Mary thought she was going to serve her few months and it's over~well she should think again! Another thing.I just read on the first url you posted Ocean,(again Mary) says she doesn't remember getting the gun.On a recent url posted here on W.S. I distinctly remember reading Mary didn't know the gun was loaded. Now which is it Mary? Yet she stood on two pillows to balance? I agree with all~she should never have those girls again.Prayers go out for the Grandparents...IMO

ETA: A child can remember traumatic happenings.I was 7 yrs. when my (real) father pushed my mother against the kitchen wall and punched her,breaking her nose.When her eyes turned black he called her "the horse with the lavender eyes!"
--------------
my stepdad,whom I loved deeply died in France~Infantry,Oct.1st,1944...Children dont forget!!

[bowie]

Mary said that the children need all their family. Wouldn't that include their father also. Apparently, she didn't care if they had all their family when she was shooting their father. Too late now!!

[oceanblueeyes]

------------
Hi Ocean and Annie, more pain than gain!! the
right words.If the girls are showing signs of being more secure,putting the horrible tragedy out of their minds~the last thing they need is to see their mother.Does she realize at all what she exposed the two older girls to? It is all about Mary and what Mary wants.Mary thought she was going to serve her few months and it's over~well she should think again! Another thing.I just read on the first url you posted Ocean,(again Mary) says she doesn't remember getting the gun.On a recent url posted here on W.S. I distinctly remember reading Mary didn't know the gun was loaded. Now which is it Mary? Yet she stood on two pillows to balance? I agree with all~she should never have those girls again.Prayers go out for the Grandparents...IMO

ETA: A child can remember traumatic happenings.I was 7 yrs. when my (real) father pushed my mother against the kitchen wall and punched her,breaking her nose.When her eyes turned black he called her "the horse with the lavender eyes!"
--------------
my stepdad,whom I loved deeply died in France~Infantry,Oct.1st,1944...Children don't forget!!

Good Bless Step-fathers. So many of them are unsung heroes.

I still shake my head about this case Nore. I don't know if Farese and Mary think everyone has an IQ lower than a box of rocks or that they think if they confuse, change, rearrange the story that somehow all sane people's eyes will just glaze over and not pick up on the glaring outright lies told by this one woman.

As you know I have been a crime buff for more years than I want to think about and I have never seen one quite like this one. I literally can't keep up with Mary's stories! They change like a chameleon.

She cant remember getting the gun?
Oops scratch that now she remembers she was going to get the gun and point it at her bad arse abuser so he would listen to her?
Oops now she remembers she thought it was unloaded?

She said as he lay dying he asked "Why?"
Oops...again scratch that.......NOW she says he didnt say a word.

Okay if we believe Mary's crap then why in the world would she point an unloaded gun at a man that she said she wanted to intimidate so he would listen to her? If he kept it unloaded then he would immediately know Mary didn't know beans about guns (so says Mary) and he would take that gun away from her and if he was that bad of an abuser he would have beat the stuffings out of her or worse.

If she was being grossly abused would she have the wherewithal and b*lls to enter a room where she NOW (sigh) says he wasn't sleeping but AWAKE and had his back to her? So she enters the room where her husband is awake.......walks past the bed......goes to the closet......takes the gun out of its case......comes back balances on the pillows, puts the gun to her shoulder and magically snaps...just as the shotgun fires and hits him right square in the back and then makes a statement that "it wasn't as loud as I thought it would be." And all this time Matthew Winkler never turned around once? Does that make sense? NO! NO! NO! lol

This case without a doubt is one case where justice was not served and I don't know who I feel the sorriest for.... Matthew who's reputation was shredded to get a killer off, the poor Winkler family or Matthew's precious children. My heart breaks for all the many victims in this case.

Farese won this case on fluff and trash..shock and awe and Mary's little downtrodden mousy look......he knew if he could make the jury hate Matthew and paint him as a bad man that she would get a lessor charge. This was and always will be a first degree murder case imo. It is a mockery and a black mark on our justice system imo.

To know she is Scott free and not one thing she said was proven in court about her husband is beyond sickening. It is unforgivable for it to happen in a court of law in our country imo when everything is supposed to be based on facts in evidence. Not one thing did they find except the thumbnail porn in the deleted file. That's it. The wig and shoe was NOT in the parsonage of Matthew Winkler.......they were only tools that the defense used to inflame the jury.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

Mary said that the children need all their family. Wouldn't that include their father also. Apparently, she didn't care if they had all their family when she was shooting their father. Too late now!!

Yes it absolutely does and those girls deserve to have their father in their lives. She had no right to take away their choices and replace them with nightmares.

imoo

[fundiva]

Good Bless Step-fathers. So many of them are unsung heroes.

I still shake my head about this case Nore. I don't know if Farese and Mary think everyone has an IQ lower than a box of rocks or that they think if they confuse, change, rearrange the story that somehow all sane people's eyes will just glaze over and not pick up on the glaring outright lies told by this one woman.

As you know I have been a crime buff for more years than I want to think about and I have never seen one quite like this one. I literally can't keep up with Mary's stories! They change like a chameleon.

She cant remember getting the gun?
Oops scratch that now she remembers she was going to get the gun and point it at her bad arse abuser so he would listen to her?
Oops now she remembers she thought it was unloaded?

She said as he lay dying he asked "Why?"
Oops...again scratch that.......NOW she says he didnt say a word.

Okay if we believe Mary's crap then why in the world would she point an unloaded gun at a man that she said she wanted to intimidate so he would listen to her? If he kept it unloaded then he would immediately know Mary didn't know beans about guns (so says Mary) and he would take that gun away from her and if he was that bad of an abuser he would have beat the stuffings out of her or worse.

If she was being grossly abused would she have the wherewithal and b*lls to enter a room where she NOW (sigh) says he wasn't sleeping but AWAKE and had his back to her? So she enters the room where her husband is awake.......walks past the bed......goes to the closet......takes the gun out of its case......comes back balances on the pillows, puts the gun to her shoulder and magically snaps...just as the shotgun fires and hits him right square in the back and then makes a statement that "it wasn't as loud as I thought it would be." And all this time Matthew Winkler never turned around once? Does that make sense? NO! NO! NO! lol

This case without a doubt is one case where justice was not served and I don't know who I feel the sorriest for.... Matthew who's reputation was shredded to get a killer off, the poor Winkler family or Matthew's precious children. My heart breaks for all the many victims in this case.

Farese won this case on fluff and trash..shock and awe and Mary's little downtrodden mousy look......he knew if he could make the jury hate Matthew and paint him as a bad man that she would get a lessor charge. This was and always will be a first degree murder case imo. It is a mockery and a black mark on our justice system imo.

To know she is Scott free and not one thing she said was proven in court about her husband is beyond sickening. It is unforgivable for it to happen in a court of law in our country imo when everything is supposed to be based on facts in evidence. Not one thing did they find except the thumbnail porn in the deleted file. That's it. The wig and shoe was NOT in the parsonage of Matthew Winkler.......they were only tools that the defense used to inflame the jury.

imoo
Can't the court take her "statements" that she has made since the trial and prosecute her for perjury given the fact that she has contradicted her testimony so much? I would think there would be something to charge her with - obstruction, perjury, even if it is just a misdemeanor, so that it counts against her in a custody hearing.

[oceanblueeyes]

Can't the court take her "statements" that she has made since the trial and prosecute her for perjury given the fact that she has contradicted her testimony so much? I would think there would be something to charge her with - obstruction, perjury, even if it is just a misdemeanor, so that it counts against her in a custody hearing.

They certain could fundiva but they wont. It is extremely rare for a person to even be charged with perjury even if the evidence shows blatant lies told.

I guess it is political to some degree. A DA is always supposed to give the appearance of fairness and if they brought charges he may think the community would think he was adding this charge merely because he is ticked that the verdict was a lessor degree than the State was asking or he was trying to disrupt the custody issue. That is also the reason imo why the check kiting charges weren't filed against her. To go back now would also appear to some that the State was doubling up on MW because of the stupid verdict.

I remember in the Scott Dyleski case..... his mom, Ester Felding, not only perjured herself on the stand but destroyed evidence as well. The State never charged her even though they had her dead to right and SD was up to his eyeballs in an internet scam and stealing credit card information but they did not include those charges when they brought the first degree against him.

BUT! I do believe since there will be court transcripts to both the trial and custody hearing this will be brought out front and center in the civil trial. If I were the Winklers lawyer in that case my main questions to Mary would be as I asked her to read the inconsistent statements, "Were you lying in the trial, or the custody hearing or now, Mary?" "How can this jury ever know what the truth is when you have told so many lies?"

The Winkler civil attorney has got to be more hard hitting and forceful than ADA Freeland. He has a mountain of evidence to work with all the inconsistent stories this woman has told starting all the way back on March 23,06 until her mouth stops yapping. lol

imoo

[Nore]

They certain could fundiva but they wont. It is extremely rare for a person to even be charged with perjury even if the evidence shows blatant lies told.

I guess it is political to some degree. A DA is always supposed to give the appearance of fairness and if they brought charges he may think the community would think he was adding this charge merely because he is ticked that the verdict was a lessor degree than the State was asking or he was trying to disrupt the custody issue. That is also the reason imo why the check kiting charges weren't filed against her. To go back now would also appear to some that the State was doubling up on MW because of the stupid verdict.

I remember in the Scott Dyleski case..... his mom, Ester Felding, not only perjured herself on the stand but destroyed evidence as well. The State never charged her even though they had her dead to right and SD was up to his eyeballs in an internet scam and stealing credit card information but they did not include those charges when they brought the first degree against him.

BUT! I do believe since there will be court transcripts to both the trial and custody hearing this will be brought out front and center in the civil trial. If I were the Winklers lawyer in that case my main questions to Mary would be as I asked her to read the inconsistent statements, "Were you lying in the trial, or the custody hearing or now, Mary?" "How can this jury ever know what the truth is when you have told so many lies?"

The Winkler civil attorney has got to be more hard hitting and forceful than ADA Freeland. He has a mountain of evidence to work with all the inconsistent stories this woman has told starting all the way back on March 23,06 until her mouth stops yapping. lol

imoo
--------------
I certainly hope the civil attorney is keeping track of all Mary says.Mary in my estimation is a lieing loose canon and will harm someone again.I pray to God it is not one of the girls or the elder Winklers.Mary has huge mental problems,why they dont act on that is beyond me....IMO

[Nore]

Tonight at 10pm.Snapped is on Oxygen. I watched a few today and they are doozies.I'm anxious to see what they say!

[oceanblueeyes]

Tonight at 10pm.Snapped is on Oxygen. I watched a few today and they are doozies.I'm anxious to see what they say!

The name of the show is very misleading to me Nore.

First they show only women who have supposedly "snapped" yet on their site they list murders committed by women that have killed because of jealousy, or the spouse had high insurance policies and the women killed for financial gain. The jealousy motive is a typical revenge motive done by both males and females. And women who are master planning the demise of their husbands so they can get his life insurance sure don't "SNAP" and murder their husbands. They premeditate the murder.

So the "snapping" part is very misleading to me. I have always felt that is a convenient excuse said to try and distance themselves from their crime and the responsibility/accountability for it. I dont buy it when a male tries to say it too.

If you watch would you give a recap of the show? TIA House is filled with baseball playoffs tonight. lol

imoo

[Nore]

Ocean~I am sooooo sorry! I sat here and fell asleep,missed the whole thing. I'm sure they will repeat it so I'll watch for it.I saw Melanie McGuire trial on Snapped last night~she didnt snap,premeditated.I saw a couple more that one would know was planned.I'll keep you posted.

[Squishified]

Ocean~I am sooooo sorry! I sat here and fell asleep,missed the whole thing. I'm sure they will repeat it so I'll watch for it.I saw Melanie McGuire trial on Snapped last night~she didnt snap,premeditated.I saw a couple more that one would know was planned.I'll keep you posted.
They repeat these shows a lot.
Let me see if I can find when it's on again.

[Squishified]

It's not on again until Sunday Oct. 14 at 8:00pm Eastern.

[oceanblueeyes]

Ocean~I am sooooo sorry! I sat here and fell asleep,missed the whole thing. I'm sure they will repeat it so I'll watch for it.I saw Melanie McGuire trial on Snapped last night~she didn't snap,premeditated.I saw a couple more that one would know was planned.I'll keep you posted.

Oh that is okay Nore. Believe me I have fallen asleep many times right in the middle of a movie I wanted to watch. lol

Squishi says it comes on again on the 14th. I don't get the Oxygen channel but no one anywhere is even mentioning watching the show. So I guess most have had a bellyfull of Mary Winkler.:)

Ocean

[Squishified]

Oh that is okay Nore. Believe me I have fallen asleep many times right in the middle of a movie I wanted to watch. lol

Squishi says it comes on again on the 14th. I don't get the Oxygen channel but no one anywhere is even mentioning watching the show. So I guess most have had a bellyfull of Mary Winkler.:)

Ocean
Hey Ocean,
I didn't watch the show because Mary makes me too mad. Maybe I'll watch the repeat. I might have to have a few drinks first! :)

[oceanblueeyes]

Hey Ocean,
I didn't watch the show because Mary makes me too mad. Maybe I'll watch the repeat. I might have to have a few drinks first! :)

LOL I hear ya Squishi. At least on "Snapped" though they do have quite a bit of views from the other side and they really do stress the financial check kiting scheme by Mary (only lol)

DA Dunavant speaks with "Snapped" and his interview was very good. I saw his interview on the bonus extended video page on Oxygen.

imoo

[JuJuBee]

I grew up in a very conservative Pentecostal family, and I can see where having a husband want her to wear hooker shoes and a wig during sex might have made Mary very uncomfortable and upset. However, if she's going to claim her religious background as grounds for being upset over kinky sex, she's going to have to explain to me why her religious background did not preclude financial fraud and check-kiting -- never mind cold-blooded murder. Those sins are a whole lot weightier than a little off-beat nookie, IMHO.

I also think she is a disturbed woman and that the police are lucky they found her when they did, because she meant to do no good with that shotgun she took with her on the road. I'd almost bet she planned to take the kids away and kill them and either lost her nerve or hadn't yet planned out her course of action when the cops caught up with her.

Was anyone else completely creeped out by her demeanor? That vacant smirk on her face and her total calm? Not to mention her mustache?

[Squishified]

I grew up in a very conservative Pentecostal family, and I can see where having a husband want her to wear hooker shoes and a wig during sex might have made Mary very uncomfortable and upset. However, if she's going to claim her religious background as grounds for being upset over kinky sex, she's going to have to explain to me why her religious background did not preclude financial fraud and check-kiting -- never mind cold-blooded murder. Those sins are a whole lot weightier than a little off-beat nookie, IMHO.

I also think she is a disturbed woman and that the police are lucky they found her when they did, because she meant to do no good with that shotgun she took with her on the road. I'd almost bet she planned to take the kids away and kill them and either lost her nerve or hadn't yet planned out her course of action when the cops caught up with her.

Was anyone else completely creeped out by her demeanor? That vacant smirk on her face and her total calm? Not to mention her mustache?

I know it's not nice but that cracked me up!
Welcome to WS, JuJuBe (love the name). Good post. I believe what Mary did was comparable to what Mark Hacking did. They each killed their spouse out of fear of being "found out". Too bad Mary got off so easy.:(

[oceanblueeyes]

I grew up in a very conservative Pentecostal family, and I can see where having a husband want her to wear hooker shoes and a wig during sex might have made Mary very uncomfortable and upset. However, if she's going to claim her religious background as grounds for being upset over kinky sex, she's going to have to explain to me why her religious background did not preclude financial fraud and check-kiting -- never mind cold-blooded murder. Those sins are a whole lot weightier than a little off-beat nookie, IMHO.

I also think she is a disturbed woman and that the police are lucky they found her when they did, because she meant to do no good with that shotgun she took with her on the road. I'd almost bet she planned to take the kids away and kill them and either lost her nerve or hadn't yet planned out her course of action when the cops caught up with her.

Was anyone else completely creeped out by her demeanor? That vacant smirk on her face and her total calm? Not to mention her mustache?

I know it's not nice but that cracked me up!
Welcome to WS, JuJuBe (love the name). Good post. I believe what Mary did was comparable to what Mark Hacking did. They each killed their spouse out of fear of being "found out". Too bad Mary got off so easy.:(

LOL Well I have to agree with JuJu. That darn smirky smile of hers is downright creepy and do you notice she does it when the "sex" questions are asked?:p

I have been thinking about the porn again. We all know that she tried to paint Matthew as some depraved porn addict but the computer expert said the entire time these thumbnails were viewed was ONE HOUR. You know what I think or even care? tee hee I think Mary got spam email and she opened them up out of curiosity of wanting to see how other women looked. Mary was the one home all the time and we know it was Mary that was a big risk taker doing the scam and check kiting. I think she peeked at them and he never even knew they were in the deleted file.

So does it make sense that a guy addicted to porn would have no magazines, no videos and no visits to several internet porn sites and in 10 years only about 180 thumbnails? And LE found all three computers they had since they first got married.

I think Mary just moved on and jumped right in the sack with the next guy that came along. Does that sound like she is suffering from being sexually abused?:waitasec: I will continue to believe Mary killed Matthew two hours before he was expected at the bank. She couldn't let that happen or let him know all she had done to betray him and the shame she would bring on him, his family and ministry. She just couldn't face it so she took him out and solved her impending problem at the moment. Like all killers they don't think one inch in front of their noses. They just see an obstacle and premeditate to remove it.

I think her delayed contrived story was done when she knew if she didn't say she was abused she was going to do 51 years in prison and most likely die there.

That is why the story began to change 8 months later and as long as Mary talks it still evolves because she cant keep her lies straight. The Winkler lawyers have got to be loving Mary running her mouth. lol

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

This is part two.

Part one will also be on the website.

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071112/NEWS01/711120317

[chicoliving]

Thanks oceanblueeyes! That was a good read.

[JuJuBee]

That WAS a good read, and it hit on a subject that I've wondered about ever since the trial: if Mary was so badly abused and controlled by Matthew, why was she in charge of the family finances?

My grandfathter was a minister so I'm looking at it from that angle...and I'm pretty sure that in the Winkler family, although there would have been a lot of talk about the husband being the Spiritual Head of the Household, they followed the necessity dictated by Matthew's profession: Ministers are really freaking busy people.

If Matthew Winkler's life was like my grandfather's, he had committees and counseling and parishioner visits and sermons to write every week, not to mention all the nuts and bolts of operating a church. He didn't have time to do the family finances and he sure as hell didn't have time to control his wife to the point where she was afraid to leave the house. If the electric bill was going to get paid and the baby was going to get diapers, Mary had to write the checks and make the trips to the store. It's just that simple.

Being a preacher's wife means living under a microscope, and her check-kiting would have been a HUGE issue, just like the article said. Matthew could have lost his pulpit and had a hard time finding another one. Their livelihood and everything their family supposedly stood for was at stake. She was in over her head and couldn't face the consequences, so she shot him and yes, I think she meant to kill the kids as well. Whether she would have killed herself I can't say, but thank God she got pulled over when she did. Faced with arrest, she came up with the story about how Matthew was an abusive pervert and she "just snapped".

And since none of us were in the Winkler's bedroom, it's entirely possible that SHE bought the wig and shoes to spice up their love life and they were just convenient props in her story. Because who would believe a shy little preacher's wife wanted to dress up like a hooker and have her husband tell her she was a bad girl? The fact that she always wore that stupid smirk when talking about sex on the stand made me really think that she turned that one around and used it to her advantage.

She makes me mad. :razz:

[WindChime]

Mary Winkler has been granted supervised visitation with her daughters. My heart aches for these children.

[j2mirish]

My Lord----- what is wrong with our judicial system?

[Squishified]

Here's a link:

http://www.wsmv.com/news/14705705/detail.html

[oceanblueeyes]

www.jacksonsun.com
SNIP:In a phone interview Tuesday, Neese said Dan and Diane Winkler have retained new legal representation from the Stites Harbison law firm in Nashville.

A message left for the Winklers' new attorney, Gregory Smith, was not immediately returned Tuesday night.

http://iplawky.com/attorneys.php?&AttorneyID=183
SNIP:
Gregory Smith is a Member of the Firm's Family Law Service Group. His practice focuses primarily on divorce, custody litigation, support disputes and neglect cases in courts in Nashville and surrounding counties. He has helped clients find and recover children abducted by former spouses, obtained help for children with disabilities and resolved difficult property and financial issues related to their domestic disputes. Greg is listed in The Best Lawyers in America® in Family Law.

http://www.stites.com/about.php?AboutusID=1
SNIP:The American Lawyer recognized the firm as one of the leading law firms in America, as selected by 400 in-house counsel, and International Corporate Law selected the firm as the leading firm in Kentucky based upon a survey of 200 major corporations and financial institutions. Global Research rated the firm among the 50 best overall law firms in America. Corporate Counsel Magazine selected Stites & Harbison as a 2007 Go-To Law Firm® for litigation and financial services. Less than one-half of one percent of all law firms in the U.S. and abroad receive the Go-To Law Firm® honor. A 2007 survey of top law firm managing partners conducted by Edge International, an international legal consulting firm, identified Stites & Harbison Chairman Kennedy Helm III as one of the Top 10 managing partners most admired for excellence in leadership by his peers. In 2002, BTI Consulting Group, Inc., recognized the firm nationally for outstanding client service.

http://www.stites.com/about.php?AboutusID=1
SNIP:Former or deceased Members of the firm include a United States Attorney General, a Chief Judge of the Kentucky Court of Appeals (now Supreme Court), numerous federal and state trial court and appellate judges, a Lieutenant Governor and Attorney General of Kentucky and a Master Commissioner of the United States Supreme Court.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

Who thinks the next step the Winklers will make is to the Tennessee Supreme Court?

They have now hired the best that Tennessee has to offer.

IMO, they are going to fight this all the way trying to protect these children from further mental harm.

I wish them well and lots of good luck.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

Darrell is talking again.

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=7411833

This is part one.

Part two can be found on the site also.

Ocean

[Squishified]

Decision to let Mary see her kids upheld:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/12/19/minister.killed.custody/index.html

[pixies]

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=8336503


OMG!! I totally supported Mary (I don't know why) but wow!

She is no longer the little mousey woman we are use to seeing.

[Jeana (DP)]

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=8336503


OMG!! I totally supported Mary (I don't know why) but wow!

She is no longer the little mousey woman we are use to seeing.

She's a cold blooded murderer. I never saw her as mousey.

[Nore]

She's a cold blooded murderer. I never saw her as mousey.
--------
Jeana you sure have this one right. I have always felt the same way.I pray she doesn'tget custody.Nore

[txsvicki]

Someone in the comments section of the article mentioned Mary killing Matthew for the money and wanting to get her hands on the fund. Does anyone know what fund this is?

[oceanblueeyes]

She's a cold blooded murderer. I never saw her as mousey.

Me neither Jeana. I saw her as a treacherous woman who knew how to appear to be a certain way when it behooved her. Just like she appeared to be a loving, faithful and TRUSTING wife to a preacher, just like she pretended to be the meek little mother to three children and appeared like the chameleon she is imo in court to better her advantage of getting away with cold blooded murder. But the real Mary was much different imo she had secrets behind Matthew's back that he was never ever going to know about. She was a cold, calculating woman who selfishly brought the world down for so many that never deserved it including Matthew. She lied, rearranged and changed her stories after her very first statement .....with her slick lawyers guiding her all the way. She says she told no one of the abuse when she was in her criminal case because she needed that sympathy factor that she had no one yet in the custody case she tells a completely different story and now it changed to saying something disparaging trying to hurt the Winkler grandparents. She is chilling and makes my skin crawl.

This fund was not affiliated with Mary or any of Mary's friends, family members or church supporters. Why didnt they start their own fund? This fund was initiated because at that time using commonsense and logic people knew that supporting three young children through to the age of maturity would be a great weight on the Winkler Family. I have given to the Winkler fund several times and each and every time I did it was to help the WINKLERS with the children. Since Mary now wants that fund in her hands, who never created her own fund and probably never has sent a dime for support of them, I have not given a dime and have no intentions of padding the pocket of a murderer. I did send one check made payable to Dan and Diane Winkler asking that they use it to buy the girls something they want or go out and have a nice dinner with them.

The thought that she is having fun with the victim's three precious children is nauseating. Maybe they can talk about old times like when she shot their daddy in the back as he lay sleeping and then laying on the floor dying, asking Mary, "why?"

To me this case is one of the worst miscarriages of justice I have witnessed in 25 years.

Those jurors should hang their head in shame. Not one thing she alleged was ever proven. He was just victimized again and again because he had been silenced and had no voice. I hope one day Patricia will set the record straight and I do think she will. I think the love and loss of her father is profound.

imoo

[oceanblueeyes]

--------
Jeana you sure have this one right. I have always felt the same way.I pray she doesn't get custody.Nore

It is chilling to think about Nore...

Say one of the children has a terrible nightmare about the boogeywoman killing their father and wake up screaming and terrified from the vivid memories. How in the world is this woman going to rush into the room and quieten their fears and make them think all is well when they are looking right into the boogeywoman's eyes that is in their thoughts and nightmares?

And they will never fully let their guard down imo. If she were to abuse them either physically or emotionally they would never breathe a word knowing what their mother is capable of doing.

imoo

[txsvicki]

The Winkler's have social security death benefits for the children, probably around 1,200 per month, but I'm glad there is a fund to help out in raising the children since that doesn't go very far and isn't even the amount that foster parents get for raising children.

[Snowlover77]

One thing for sure she is lying when she says they just picked up whre they left off. There's no way you can do that...especially not with the older girl. She would remember the most. May God give those girls peace and lots of love in their years to come because they won't be easy years for them.
I neevr agreed with the jury's verdict. From day one, I saw a woman terrified to face the consequences of her actions. The verdict literally shocked me! This is one case that to me ranks pretty much in there with the OJ verdict.

[oceanblueeyes]

The Winkler's have social security death benefits for the children, probably around 1,200 per month, but I'm glad there is a fund to help out in raising the children since that doesn't go very far and isn't even the amount that foster parents get for raising children.

And I have never understood that disparity in the amounts.

And no one knows it any better than Mary that if she can get them back it will be she who is collecting social security benefit checks.

Just seems eerie and sinister that a woman can murder their husband and then yet get the social security check that is given to the children because of the father's untimely loss of life due to being murdered by the now wanting to be full caregiver.

imoo

[CarpeDiem]

http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=8336503


OMG!! I totally supported Mary (I don't know why) but wow!

She is no longer the little mousey woman we are use to seeing.

Well, she has had a lot of counseling since the crime. :waitasec:

[Jeana (DP)]

Well, she has had a lot of counseling since the crime. :waitasec:

I think she was smiling her butt off after sentencing. I don't think she needed any more counseling than that.

[oceanblueeyes]

Well, she has had a lot of counseling since the crime. :waitasec:

No, she really hasn't CarpeDiem. Neither she or her lawyers ever sought any treatment for Mary during the entire time before the trial. All we heard Farese say ad nauseum that she was ready to get on with her life. She took the group home over jail time and was allowed to walk and talk and be with Darrell and others when she was there. Sure doesn't sound like extensive therapy to me but more like a bed and breakfast atmosphere imo.

And then at the custody hearing which was soon after the criminal trial she said she only went once a month to see a counselor. Now to me that means Mary has had to make a phenomenal recovery especially since they tried to paint her with such grave mental issues in the trial. She suffered from PTSD for 20 years yet she is now over it and can get on with her life? I have never known anyone that moves on that quickly. That one thing alone can leave some with major issues to deal with for years even decades and some never overcoming them enough to be able to struggle through life's ups and downs due to PTSD. She also has been diagnosed with a Personality Disorder and that never goes away and no matter what disorder she has any family member who has had a loved one with one will tell you it can be hell trying to live daily with the person.

So imo no she hasn't had any therapy. Mary is too busy doing what Mary always wants to do. I actually think the mental issues were all a bunch of baloney because no one not even the great Mary Winkler just gets on with their lives like nothing ever happened to them. If she is a miracle child then her two oldest children will not be as fortunate as their mother and will struggle to deal with all the devastation caused by Mary imo.

imoo