Why didn't the parents hire someone to watch the children?

[NewMom2003]

I'm new to this case. I briefly followed it when Maddie was first reported missing. I really thought she was kidnapped by a pedophile. :(

Now that the parents are named as suspects, I'm reading more about the case. I'm still on the fence but am leaning towards the parents being guilty of this child's death and covering it up. At the very least they are guilty of negligence for leaving three small children alone while they partied. :mad: :furious:

My big question is why did these two educated doctors leave their three children alone in a room at their vacation resort? Why didn't they pay for childcare?

It's obvious to me that money wasn't the issue, so why?

[Rino]

Thats the $64,000 question.

[rmf]

Something I'd like to express about the whole vacation-with-kids thing.

When I was a kid, we didn't take expensive vacations. We went camping and did other things with our parents. When Mom and Dad wanted to go to a resort, we were left at home with our grandparents. There was a big distinction between "kid holidays" and "parent holidays".

My spouse and I have noticed, with a lot of dismay, that this has changed. We once traveled to an expensive resort in Mexico, only to find it occupied by families with really small kids. Now we have grown kids of our own, so we're not kid haters, but we just felt that environment was not really too appropriate for young kids. In fact, the kids were being left alone at the pool, were noisy/running around, etc. The kids who did have parents there, the parents were ingesting a lot of alcohol and were pretty much NOT watching or engaged in the situations with their kids. Not really a relaxing time for us kid-free folks, if you ask me. We've also noticed this in Las Vegas as well, kids in strollers in casinos, LATE AT NIGHT, etc.

Again, I'm not kid bashing, but I feel there are a lot of selfish people out there who drag kids on holidays that have nothing to do with the kids, but about the parents and their need to party. I felt this way right away when I heard about the McCann's and it bothers me. If people want to go on holiday and party day and night, more power to them. But I think they should leave the children home with grandparents or other relatives. I think that kids are dragged along because parents work a lot and the kids are in daycare a lot anyway. So the parents take them on these trips because they feel guilty and think that taking them along somewhere totally inappropriate is what being a good parent is all about.... :confused: Then when they get there, they ignore them, drag them around or deposit them in a daycare at the resort. I don't get the logic.

[Brefie]

Again, I'm not kid bashing, but I feel there are a lot of selfish people out there who drag kids on holidays that have nothing to do with the kids, but about the parents and their need to party. I felt this way right away when I heard about the McCann's and it bothers me. If people want to go on holiday and party day and night, more power to them. But I think they should leave the children home with grandparents or other relatives. I think that kids are dragged along because parents work a lot and the kids are in daycare a lot anyway, so the parents feel guilty and think that taking them along somewhere totally inappropriate is what being a good parent is all about.... :confused: I don't get the logic.


I agree. It is possible that they took other vacations that were ALL about the kids and this one was more about the parents. Please do not take that to mean I don't STRONGLY condemn them for leaving children unattended. It's disgusting, absolutely. But I wonder if they preferred to have them along so they didn't have to go the whole time without seeing them at all, but, ultimately this was a grown up thing.

I could see myself doing a similar thing. If I could afford to, one vacay that's kids, kids, kids - no babysitters, a few days at a Disney resort or somewhere equally kid-great and ALL about kids....not even a hour for grown up time apart. And one more (oh, the luxury) with a known, trusted babysitter EVERY night (yeah, I said it!) but with them along so you don't miss each other too much, but it's really mommy and daddy time.

[SleuthMom]

When you are a parent, you are one 24/7. Can't have it both ways.

[Brefie]

When you are a parent, you are one 24/7. Can't have it both ways.

So you think my scenario is bad?? I think for one week a year you just might be able to have it both ways.

Plenty of parents hold full time jobs when they are away from their kids. Kids go on trips with other kids or schools. What's so wrong with what I said?

[rmf]

I totally hear what you're saying.

What I see happening more and more with some people with kids is that the kids come along and are expected to ADAPT to the parents' lifestyle and not visa-versa. When you have kids, things CHANGE. You no longer have the freedom you did before and you have a lot more responsibility. I see more and more that people just expect the kids to fit into the lifestyle that existed before they came along, when (IMHO) it should be the other way around.


I agree. It is possible that they took other vacations that were ALL about the kids and this one was more about the parents. Please do not take that to mean I don't STRONGLY condemn them for leaving children unattended. It's disgusting, absolutely. But I wonder if they preferred to have them along so they didn't have to go the whole time without seeing them at all, but, ultimately this was a grown up thing.

I could see myself doing a similar thing. If I could afford to, one vacay that's kids, kids, kids - no babysitters, a few days at a Disney resort or somewhere equally kid-great and ALL about kids....not even a hour for grown up time apart. And one more (oh, the luxury) with a known, trusted babysitter EVERY night (yeah, I said it!) but with them along so you don't miss each other too much, but it's really mommy and daddy time.

[Texana]

If you go back and read the early interviews with the McCanns, Kate repeatedly says that the resort felt so safe. It was family friendly and felt so "safe." Gerry says it was like dining in the garden (of your own home) they were so close to the room.

I have heard that they reportedly did not want to leave the children with strangers, but I have never actually read that in a direct quote from the McCanns. It could be there, I just haven't read it for myself yet.

I'm grateful we have the links that Colomom and others provided early on, because it's getting harder and harder to get to the actual news articles with so many blog opinions and forum opinions coming up on the searches.

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1590&id=1223682007

Here is one article that talks about how safe they felt.

One interesting thing that Kate says is, "I'm sure people will learn from our mistake, if you want to call it that."

[Salem]

This is the million dollar question. One I have not found an answer to and one I have not gotten over. I don't understand!!!!!!!

Educated, working DOCTORS. These guys keep scoring points for being doctors. I find that incredible! I think they should lose points everytime someone mentions that they are DOCTORS. What the hell kind of doctors are they? After everything they went through in med school, emergency room stints (as part of training) and seeing office patients - how could they have possibly thought that it was okay to leave 3 babies unattended for any length of time? How?

I don't get it. I know I keep asking this question in my same frustrated tone of typing, but I can't seem to say it strongly enough. I don't get it.

Salem

[Trino]

Many young people move about the country - mostly job related - and don't necessarily have a connection with their parents or someone who would watch their children while they take an extended vacation. If they have the $ to take the kids along, they do so. This does not mean it's appropriate, only that this is a possible reason it's done.

[rmf]

So you think my scenario is bad?? I think for one week a year you just might be able to have it both ways.

Plenty of parents hold full time jobs when they are away from their kids. Kids go on trips with other kids or schools. What's so wrong with what I said?

I don't think that the other poster meant to offend. I also think that most reasonable parents would not ever dream of leaving their children asleep in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country. The sad part to me is that people like the McCanns wouldn't dream of leaving their purse or wallet in an unlocked room, but would leave the kids there. Just like the people we saw leaving 4 year olds at a pool alone. That pretty much sums up where the "values" in situations like that reside. :(

[Jeana (DP)]

When I was a kid, we would go camping and be gone having fun all day and didn't see our parents sometimes until dinner. We also used to be able to play outside until the street lights came on. How many of us who are now parents can say the same thing is true for our kids? Not many I would guess. Its a different time. I don't know how or why the number of predators of children have increased (or even if it has), but we simply cannot allow our children to be by themselves any more. Mind you I'm not saying that its EVER okay to leave two-year old twins and a three-year old alone. What I am saying is this has nothing to do with how things were when we were kids.

[rmf]

Many young people move about the country - mostly job related - and don't necessarily have a connection with their parents or someone who would watch their children while they take an extended vacation. If they have the $ to take the kids along, they do so. This does not mean it's appropriate, only that this is a possible reason it's done.

Maybe I'm old, but when I was growing up, if there was not an appropriate caregiver, the adults didn't GO. Again, I'm a relic so that may be why.

[rmf]

What I am saying is this has nothing to do with how things were when we were kids.

You're right. It has to do with VALUES, IMO, and that's where I was going in my other posts.

[KOOL LOOK]

I don't think that the other poster meant to offend. I also think that most reasonable parents would not ever dream of leaving their children asleep in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country. The sad part to me is that people like the McCanns wouldn't dream of leaving their purse or wallet in an unlocked room, but would leave the kids there. Just like the people we saw leaving 4 year olds at a pool alone. That pretty much sums up where the "values" in situations like that reside. :(


:woohoo: Too lazy to hunt down the clapping hands smilies. But clap clap clap. Honk Honk Honk! :crazy: Great post! Do you get the picture yet?

[SleuthMom]

Brefie, nothing wrong with what you said, it is your opinion. :) I think parenthood is a FULL TIME job and one you are never "released" from. In the case of the Mc Canns I fully understand the need of wanted to spend some "adult" time, that's absolutely understandable BUT we are speaking about a couple with THREE children THREE and UNDER. ANY parent knows that there is a period of time when your kids are that small that you are basically devote MOST of your time to them, having little or no time for yourself. That's PART of what parenthood is all about. It seems like the Mc Cann's couple did not accept that and they wanted to have it both ways...by having children AND at the same time enjoying themselves when these kids were left alone in a foreign country for several days while they party with friends. It IS possible to probably have it "both" ways once your kids are OLDER but definitely NOT at the age of the Mc Cann's kids. Let's also mention that these kids did not come as an "accident", they came through IV...meaning they were obviously "wanted". Unfortunately, there are many people who want kids but they are NOT willing to do what it takes to be a parent. I think this is the case of Kate and Gerry. The way they behaved with regards to their kids in that holiday in Portugal, speaks volumes to me of the kind of concern, care and regards they have for their own kids. Obviously, Kate and Gerry's "needs" were HIGHER than the needs of their kids. That's not what parenthood is all about. Hence, once you become a parent...you are a parent for life.

[Brefie]

When I was a kid, we would go camping and be gone having fun all day and didn't see our parents sometimes until dinner. We also used to be able to play outside until the street lights came on. How many of us who are now parents can say the same thing is true for our kids? Not many I would guess. Its a different time. I don't know how or why the number of predators of children have increased (or even if it has), but we simply cannot allow our children to be by themselves any more. Mind you I'm not saying that its EVER okay to leave two-year old twins and a three-year old alone. What I am saying is this has nothing to do with how things were when we were kids.

Same for me too, I am 29. On summer break, I could be gone until dark (after dinner, not since morning). If I were a child now, I doubt I would be allowed out of the back yard...and only then because it was nearly impossible to get into if you didn't come through the house.
My mother was so afraid of everything that I never had a bike as a child. YET, I could be out of sight until it started to get dark. THAT for me is a huge testament to how times have REALLY changed. I don;t think there are more evil-doers, I just think they got brave.

[Kim Ii]

"When I was a kid, we would go camping and be gone having fun all day and didn't see our parents sometimes until dinner. We also used to be able to play outside until the street lights came on. How many of us who are now parents can say the same thing is true for our kids? Not many I would guess. Its a different time. I don't know how or why the number of predators of children have increased (or even if it has), but we simply cannot allow our children to be by themselves any more. Mind you I'm not saying that its EVER okay to leave two-year old twins and a three-year old alone. What I am saying is this has nothing to do with how things were when we were kids."

I TOTALLY AGREE. We, too, were allowed to play outside until the street lights came on. Also, very often, our parents would sit outside, in front of our house, and watch us kids as we played. Times WERE really different in those days! I can remember MANY blissful times outside playing with all the neighborhood kids. But these were the days when neighbors were neighborly -- when everyone looked out for one another -- when folks actually left their doors unlocked (not that I would ever recommend doing that, but then, people did.) I can remember my mom's friends in the neighborhood entering our home, sometimes with cup of coffee in hand, asking if she was home/around! I can't even imagine that happening in these times -- our doors are always locked. I won't even open the door unless I either know who is at the door, or unless I am expecting someone.

Oh God, I hope with all my heart that these parents didn't have anything to do with Madeleine's disappearance. But my heart sank when I read that these three little ones had been left all alone while their parents were out. My hinky meter went off when I read that one. Almost reminds me of the Ramsey case all over again...:mad:

[Brefie]

Brefie, nothing wrong with what you said, it is your opinion. :) I think parenthood is a FULL TIME job and one you are never "released" from. In the case of the Mc Canns I fully understand the need of wanted to spend some "adult" time, that's absolutely understandable BUT we are speaking about a couple with THREE children THREE and UNDER. ANY parent knows that there is a period of time when your kids are that small that you are basically devote MOST of your time to them, having little or no time for yourself. That's PART of what parenthood is all about. It seems like the Mc Cann's couple did not accept that and they wanted to have it both ways...by having children AND at the same time enjoying themselves when these kids were left alone in a foreign country for several days while they party with friends. It IS possible to probably have it "both" ways once your kids are OLDER but definitely NOT at the age of the Mc Cann's kids. Let's also mention that these kids did not come as an "accident", they came through IV...meaning they were obviously "wanted". Unfortunately, there are many people who want kids but they are NOT willing to do what it takes to be a parent. I think this is the case of Kate and Gerry. The way they behaved with regards to their kids in that holiday in Portugal, speaks volumes to me of the kind of concern, care and regards they have for their own kids. Obviously, Kate and Gerry's "needs" were HIGHER than the needs of their kids. That's not what parenthood is all about. Hence, once you become a parent...you are a parent for life.

Gotcha. You should know that I do not have children yet. Crap, I don't even have a job at the moment, so my fantasies of nannies and 2 vacations a year are just that - fantasies!! :D LOLOL....I think even we can crack a smile now and again.

Seriously, though, I do get that in my fantasy world, should the kids need me to stay home if they were sick or sad, I would not hesitate.

[christine2448]

The parents didn't hire someone to watch the children because one of them was missing and they had a plan, IMO...could be wrong, at this moment, that's what I think. Or they were just extremely selfish and just didn't care, I don't know?

[kazzbar]

I don't think that the other poster meant to offend. I also think that most reasonable parents would not ever dream of leaving their children asleep in an unlocked apartment in a foreign country. The sad part to me is that people like the McCanns wouldn't dream of leaving their purse or wallet in an unlocked room, but would leave the kids there. Just like the people we saw leaving 4 year olds at a pool alone. That pretty much sums up where the "values" in situations like that reside. :(I agree and think it is all nuts.I had my kids 13 months apart and would never go on holiday and leave them on there own anywhere...I just cannot believe the McCanns did this. I also cannot get over the fact that the British Press seem to be skirting round this issue...they should be charged with chjild neglect IMO.

[Brefie]

The parents didn't hire someone to watch the children because one of them was missing and they had a plan, IMO...could be wrong, at this moment, that's what I think.

God, I hope not. Right now, I do believe that you're wrong (in the most respectful way possible:blowkiss: ), but more than that, I PRAY that you are.

[Jeana (DP)]

Same for me too, I am 29. On summer break, I could be gone until dark (after dinner, not since morning). If I were a child now, I doubt I would be allowed out of the back yard...and only then because it was nearly impossible to get into if you didn't come through the house.
My mother was so afraid of everything that I never had a bike as a child. YET, I could be out of sight until it started to get dark. THAT for me is a huge testament to how times have REALLY changed. I don;t think there are more evil-doers, I just think they got brave.

29???? Twenty-Nine years old??? You're a baby!!!!! LOL I'm kidding. I never pictured you so young. You're very intelligent for being so young!!!!!
Did you ever get that bike????

[southcitymom]

I totally hear what you're saying.

What I see happening more and more with some people with kids is that the kids come along and are expected to ADAPT to the parents' lifestyle and not visa-versa. When you have kids, things CHANGE. You no longer have the freedom you did before and you have a lot more responsibility. I see more and more that people just expect the kids to fit into the lifestyle that existed before they came along, when (IMHO) it should be the other way around.


That's interesting, rmf. I believe the opposite - or maybe I am not reading your post right. I think parents must be the nucleus of the family and that kids must adapt to the adult's way of order. Hopefully, the adults in question are loving, caring and patient and have the family's best interest at heart.

That's not to say that things don't change dramatically when you have kids. They do and should. I'm not a fan of child-centered families because I don't think children have the experience, strength, maturity or wisdom to direct something as complicated as a family.

That said - wise, mature parents don't leave 3 children under the age of 3 alone in a hotel room while they go off eating and drinking.

[christine2448]

God, I hope not. Right now, I do believe that you're wrong (in the most respectful way possible:blowkiss: ), but more than that, I PRAY that you are.

Darlin', I hope I am wrong too! I don't think you know how much I hope I am wrong.

I hope it wasn't the parents...I also don't know if I'd rather her have a sedated death or be out there somewhere suffering who knows what?

:blowkiss: Right back atcha!

[southcitymom]

If you go back and read the early interviews with the McCanns, Kate repeatedly says that the resort felt so safe. It was family friendly and felt so "safe." Gerry says it was like dining in the garden (of your own home) they were so close to the room.

I have heard that they reportedly did not want to leave the children with strangers, but I have never actually read that in a direct quote from the McCanns. It could be there, I just haven't read it for myself yet.

I'm grateful we have the links that Colomom and others provided early on, because it's getting harder and harder to get to the actual news articles with so many blog opinions and forum opinions coming up on the searches.

http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=1590&id=1223682007

Here is one article that talks about how safe they felt.

One interesting thing that Kate says is, "I'm sure people will learn from our mistake, if you want to call it that."

When you see the picture of how far away the eating area was from the kids-in-room area (sherri posted a great view of this) what the McCanns say above doesn't pass the smell test. For me anyway.

[southcitymom]

Gotcha. You should know that I do not have children yet. Crap, I don't even have a job at the moment, so my fantasies of nannies and 2 vacations a year are just that - fantasies!! :D LOLOL....I think even we can crack a smile now and again.

Seriously, though, I do get that in my fantasy world, should the kids need me to stay home if they were sick or sad, I would not hesitate.

Quick, Brefie! Go on vacation now, alot, before you have kids!!! Of course, that might be tough without a job! :D

[concernedperson]

I just want to ask one question from my fellow sleuthers. Would you ever have left your toddlers alone to go out and eat dinner?

[mjak]

Maybe I'm old, but when I was growing up, if there was not an appropriate caregiver, the adults didn't GO. Again, I'm a relic so that may be why.


lol, your not a relic you just have a working brain. Child abandonment is not the new invogue child care method.

mjak

[Brefie]

29???? Twenty-Nine years old??? You're a baby!!!!! LOL I'm kidding. I never pictured you so young. You're very intelligent for being so young!!!!!
Did you ever get that bike????

hehehe :blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss: you are so cute, thanks for the compliments :)

I bought myself a $70 Kmart bike about 3 years ago, but I 'stored' it in front of my car in the back parking lot by the fence *thinking* no one would want a cheap POS. WRONGO!! Got stolen after about 2 months.

I have to say I learned to ride my cousin's bike when I was about 10, but, to truly answer your question, nope! My mother never gave in!!
I could never really understand my mom because I am the youngest of 8 (same parents for all) and SURELY you toughen up over time?? Haven't you seen enough split noggins to not panic so much?? I used to joke that when she went into labor with me she said, "Whose turn is it to walk me to the labor ward?"

[southcitymom]

I just want to ask one question from my fellow sleuthers. Would you ever have left your toddlers alone to go out and eat dinner?

No reasonable person would, IMHO, concerned. I give lots of leeway to parents and am a laidback parent myself, but I can't see any parent making that decision in any circumstance.

I've spent my share of evenings bored to death in a hotel room while my little ones slept and I'll bet I'm not the only parent here who has.

You get a good sitter or you don't go. There are NO other reasonable options with children that age.

[Jeana (DP)]

hehehe :blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss: you are so cute, thanks for the compliments :)

I bought myself a $70 Kmart bike about 3 years ago, but I 'stored' it in front of my car in the back parking lot by the fence *thinking* no one would want a cheap POS. WRONGO!! Got stolen after about 2 months.

I have to say I learned to ride my cousin's bike when I was about 10, but, to truly answer your question, nope! My mother never gave in!!
I could never really understand my mom because I am the youngest of 8 (same parents for all) and SURELY you toughen up over time?? Haven't you seen enough split noggins to not panic so much?? I used to joke that when she went into labor with me she said, "Whose turn is it to walk me to the labor ward?"

I'm glad you got that bike and I hate to have to say this, but darlin if you can't leave a bike sitting out without worrying about someone taking it, then you SURE cannot leave kids alone without . . . well, you get the point!!

I've got to ask. Your parents are now grandparents, right? Have they changed any since they raised you? I mean insofar as how they treat the grandchildren?

[christine2448]

I just want to ask one question from my fellow sleuthers. Would you ever have left your toddlers alone to go out and eat dinner?

Never, I would have more fun with them there!

[teacherbees]

I have three children who are now 25, 22 and almost 16. (I had a stillborn son in between the last two.)

During all the time that I was (and am) raising my children, my husband and I did not have any family in the same town - or anywhere nearby. So, there was never an "easy" sitter on hand.

I can say, with absolute certainty and honesty, we NEVER EVER left our children alone to go eat out. I remember once going to a party at the neighbor's house across the street - in direct view of my house. But, even then I hired a sitter to watch my two children.

Leaving three children three and under alone is criminal, in my opinion. Kate and Gerry McCann are incredibly selfish people who appear to put their own good time over the safety and wellbeing of their precious children.

[mjak]

This past spring my sister and bil took their two boys to the Atlantis club in the bahamas. They also took my mom and I along to help and also to enjoy ourselves. My nephews are 9 &11 and never ever did we enteratin the idea of leaving them alone for a second. The apartment we stayed in was in a complex very similar to where the Mccaans stayed. The four adults all took turns watch the two children. Some nights we all went out for dinner other nights my mom and I took the boys to the restraunt by the apartment and my sister and bil went to town and had an adult night. We all went to the various pools and exhibits druing the day. We all took took turns caring for the boys. in the mornings I watched the boys and my sister and bIL went to the gym. The only explanation for why the mccaans left the babies alone is that t hey thought this was an acceptable childcare arrangment. The fact they would think this inspite of clearly having all the tools to know better dose not make them look to good.

mjak

[teacherbees]

Oh, and just so you don't think I'm doing a Gerry...we never left our children alone to go do ANYTHING when they were small.

One night, we had a medical emergency in the middle of the night. (Husband had severe food poisoning.) I called a neighbor who came to sit with our sleeping children while we went to Urgent Care.

It's what you do when you're a parent - look after your children.

[teacherbees]

We went to Europe when my youngest was eight years old. It was a family trip, celebrating my oldest son's graduation from high school. Of course, the older two kids had things they wanted to do and see that wouldn't have been appropriate or enjoyable for my youngest. So, we took my mother-in-law and, just as mjak expressed, we all took turns babysitting the youngest one. Part of the trip was on a cruise ship - even then we made sure he was with one of us at all times.

[Brefie]

I'm glad you got that bike and I hate to have to say this, but darlin if you can't leave a bike sitting out without worrying about someone taking it, then you SURE cannot leave kids alone without . . . well, you get the point!!

I've got to ask. Your parents are now grandparents, right? Have they changed any since they raised you? I mean insofar as how they treat the grandchildren?

Well, you know me well enough to know that my $70 bike was every bit as precious to me as a .....COME ON!!

Ha - they were grandparents when I was 7 months!!! (Nobody mention that!!)
My parents got very old, very quick. My father had a massive stroke 6 years ago and so they do not babysit their grandkids as they might have done. But, I gotta say no, before that, she seemed to be even more nervous with them!!

[concernedperson]

Oh, and just so you don't think I'm doing a Gerry...we never left our children alone to go do ANYTHING when they were small.

One night, we had a medical emergency in the middle of the night. (Husband had severe food poisoning.) I called a neighbor who came to sit with our sleeping children while we went to Urgent Care.

It's what you do when you're a parent - look after your children.

Absolutely! Most people would never, ever leave their children in any kind of an emergency. Much less to go out for dinner. I remember when the children were small and one was teething and the other had colic and I had been awake for 2 days that I couldn't go on anymore. I called my MIL and she came over then and watched us all sleep as they were as exhausted as me. LOL!

The point is children are a precious part of our lives and they deserve to be protected. We can never be so secure that their lives are lost because of our human foibles.

The McCanns do not fulfill the basic parenting skill.

[Brefie]

I just want to ask one question from my fellow sleuthers. Would you ever have left your toddlers alone to go out and eat dinner?

God, NO! Not in a million years!

[colomom]

I just want to ask one question from my fellow sleuthers. Would you ever have left your toddlers alone to go out and eat dinner?

NEVER...not in a million years...jeeze, it took me until they were 10 and 8 before I even would leave them with a sitter and then it was only Grandma...and I gave her an earful about how precious they were to me and how I would die without them...

I childproofed every socket, gates at top and bottom of the stairs, locked every medicine cabinet and every drawer, lived with a child monitor on my hip for 7 years...

I have never been able to understand what the McCanns were thinking http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/nono.gif.

[colomom]

God, NO! Not in a million years!

Hahahaha...great minds, Brefie!
:blowkiss:

[BethInAK]

I agree. It is possible that they took other vacations that were ALL about the kids and this one was more about the parents. Please do not take that to mean I don't STRONGLY condemn them for leaving children unattended. It's disgusting, absolutely. But I wonder if they preferred to have them along so they didn't have to go the whole time without seeing them at all, but, ultimately this was a grown up thing.

I could see myself doing a similar thing. If I could afford to, one vacay that's kids, kids, kids - no babysitters, a few days at a Disney resort or somewhere equally kid-great and ALL about kids....not even a hour for grown up time apart. And one more (oh, the luxury) with a known, trusted babysitter EVERY night (yeah, I said it!) but with them along so you don't miss each other too much, but it's really mommy and daddy time.


Then you bring a nanny on vacation or leave the children with their grandparents.

[poco]

I just want to ask one question from my fellow sleuthers. Would you ever have left your toddlers alone to go out and eat dinner?


Heck, I have trouble leaving my dogs and doing that.................

[Brefie]

Then you bring a nanny on vacation or leave the children with their grandparents.

That's exactly what I said :)

[Brefie]

Hahahaha...great minds, Brefie!
:blowkiss:

:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

You got it!

[Brefie]

Heck, I have trouble leaving my dogs and doing that.................

OMG, when we got our dog (still a puppy) we left a bar with all our friends one night b/c Peter Puppy Pie MIGHT (small chance) be able to chew a cable we remembered he could get at. He didn't, of course, but they never let us forget it!!

We take the stick. How could we ignore the possibility??

[BethInAK]

I just want to ask one question from my fellow sleuthers. Would you ever have left your toddlers alone to go out and eat dinner?

i have a two year old, and I would never consider doing any such thing. I have run out to the car, less than 20 feet from the front door a few times while he is in the CHILDPROOFED house.

To be honest, when the boy is asleep we generally stay upstairs in the bedrooms even. We dont' even like to be on a different floor.

[Show Me]

I think the McCanns are criminally neglectful leaving a 3 year old and babies alone.The McCanns didn't want a stranger (employee of the resort) to watch their kids, yet they were comfortable with the kids to be surrounded by strangers with only a breakable window between them?

What gets me is these two are doctors......supposedly intelligent enough not to leave their babies alone. Being with your friends in a house with the kids is not the same as leaving your children on the other side of the resort.

[SleuthMom]

I have never been able to understand what the McCanns were thinking They were NOT thinking...that's the problem. And this is NOT a one case incident, they admitted leaving the children alone for a week every night while they went to the restaurant! Absolutely INSANE.

[sleuthin4fun]

I just want to ask one question from my fellow sleuthers. Would you ever have left your toddlers alone to go out and eat dinner?

No never! Would have loved a quiet dinner without them but, I would have been a nervous wreck had we left them like that. No way I would have enjoyed it.

We are planning a vacation in the spring and my oldest who is 17 and a junior in high school will not be able to go because she is also taking classes at the local college. It makes me nervous to leave her with people we know and trust.

[englishleigh]

No never! Would have loved a quiet dinner without them but, I would have been a nervous wreck had we left them like that. No way I would have enjoyed it.

We are planning a vacation in the spring and my oldest who is 17 and a junior in high school will not be able to go because she is also taking classes at the local college. It makes me nervous to leave her with people we know and trust.

Heck, I might be flying to Ohio in November to visit my girlfriend again and I dread leaving my 3 kids, 14, 11 and 9 with my husband and my inlaws!! Not that they aren't wonderful, but something about a mom leaving her babies, you know? How Kate could leave her babies, who WERE babies, all alone in a strange apartment...I'll never be able to understand.

[Texana]

Heck, I might be flying to Ohio in November to visit my girlfriend again and I dread leaving my 3 kids, 14, 11 and 9 with my husband and my inlaws!! Not that they aren't wonderful, but something about a mom leaving her babies, you know? How Kate could leave her babies, who WERE babies, all alone in a strange apartment...I'll never be able to understand.

Me, neither, leaving them is so difficult.

Well, according to her, they never even considered that a predator might snatch a child out of her bed.

All the other possibilities seem to have been discounted as well.

Honestly? I think she felt certain they would sleep soundly.

[sleuthin4fun]

englisleigh- It is really hard no matter what age they are to leave them. If I had my way we wouldn't go but, my husband says "we are going." I even said I would stay home and the rest could go. "No deal" he says. I know that it will be a good time. I just seems so weird to plan a trip with her not included. I guess maybe it's time I let go a little. I will admit I am not good at it.
Heres a question, she will be 17. I had a breif thought of letting her stay at home by herself a few days. Thought that it would be nice for her because we live about 2 min. from her school. I am not sure that it is wise and, I would probably go crazy. What do you guys think?

[Jeana (DP)]

Heck, I might be flying to Ohio in November to visit my girlfriend again and I dread leaving my 3 kids, 14, 11 and 9 with my husband and my inlaws!! Not that they aren't wonderful, but something about a mom leaving her babies, you know? How Kate could leave her babies, who WERE babies, all alone in a strange apartment...I'll never be able to understand.

I had to travel to Hawaii for a trial some years back and was originally going to be gone for six weeks. My mother in law flew in from Germany to stay with my husband and kids. I ended up only being gone for three weeks, but it was the longest three weeks of my life!!! I'll never do that again. I was in paradise and didn't even enjoy it.

[CaliKid]

I just want to ask one question from my fellow sleuthers. Would you ever have left your toddlers alone to go out and eat dinner?

Absolutely not. I had the advantage of built-in babysitters (grandparents, etc.), but if someone couldn't watch the children we stayed home.

I'm like alot of the rest of you. I spent the majority of my childhood on military bases and in safe neighborhoods. Out of the house at the crack of dawn, returning inside only after dark, coming back mostly for meals. My parents knew we were safe because the parents of our friends kept an eye on everyone else's children. It was perfectly acceptable to scold any neighbor kid who was playing in their yards.

[close_enough]

I just want to ask one question from my fellow sleuthers. Would you ever have left your toddlers alone to go out and eat dinner?

nope....

[CaliKid]

Then you bring a nanny on vacation or leave the children with their grandparents.

At the risk of dating myself, I was the nanny on a vacation when I was 18. Two women I babysat for wanted to see Elvis in Las Vegas and took me along to keep an eye on their toddlers. They went to the concert, gambled and drank until all hours. I didn't get to do much on my own, but the moms knew someone was home with their children while they had partied.

[sleuthin4fun]

Absolutely not. I had the advantage of built-in babysitters (grandparents, etc.), but if someone couldn't watch the children we stayed home.

I'm like alot of the rest of you. I spent the majority of my childhood on military bases and in safe neighborhoods. Out of the house at the crack of dawn, returning inside only after dark, coming back mostly for meals. My parents knew we were safe because the parents of our friends kept an eye on everyone else's children. It was perfectly acceptable to scold any neighbor kid who was playing in their yards.


Calikid- I also grew up on military bases. It was not unusual for us to be out when the sun came up and not go in until dinner. We all ran toghter in a pack. We fished, we swam, played kick ball, built forts, walked up town for pizza. Sometimes we ate vegetables out of the garden and drank out of the hose for lunch. Never did I feel scared or afraid. Since becoming a parent I think man were we lucky. We had a lake about 1/2 a mile from our house that was in the woods. There were times I would go there all alone and fish all day only coming home if I caught something that I couldn't get off my hook. Never!!! Ever!!! would I allow my kids to do that. In todays society are children really are missing out on some of the greatest joys.

[CaliKid]

What gets me is these two are doctors......supposedly intelligent enough not to leave their babies alone. Being with your friends in a house with the kids is not the same as leaving your children on the other side of the resort.

IMO, Gerry and Kate McCann have a lot of nerve comparing what they did to leaving kids upstairs sleeping while the parents are "in the garden". For one thing your children are behind a locked door, and people's gardens (yards) are not 100 yards away across shrubbery, sidewalks, a parking lot and a swimming pool.

[CaliKid]

Calikid- I also grew up on military bases. It was not unusual for us to be out when the sun came up and not go in until dinner. We all ran toghter in a pack. We fished, we swam, played kick ball, built forts, walked up town for pizza. Sometimes we ate vegetables out of the garden and drank out of the hose for lunch. Never did I feel scared or afraid. Since becoming a parent I think man were we lucky. We had a lake about 1/2 a mile from our house that was in the woods. There were times I would go there all alone and fish all day only coming home if I caught something that I couldn't get off my hook. Never!!! Ever!!! would I allow my kids to do that. In todays society are children really are missing out on some of the greatest joys.

Those were great, safe times. I wouldn't even think of letting my kids do the same today.

[Lorraining]

The whole thing is made even more preposterous considering the McCann's appear to have had a good support system with family coming often to help Kate with the children. I never had this type of help so to speak, nor did I expect or want it.

My children were 18 months apart and I wouldn't even leave them with my wonderful mother-in-law who had raised 6 children herself. They had a large house and a swimming pool in the backyard and I was afraid of what could possibly happen. To this day, I regret not traveling out of state for three days to be with my best friend as he was dieing of cancer. I simply couldn't leave my babies, and I can only trust that he understood. I never took vacations that didn't include my children and I certainly wouldn't have left them with someone I didn't know, much less alone! Even when my children were much older, I didn't go on an incredibly expensive 5 day cruise I was awarded as Employee of the Year because I was fearful of being so far away from my children even though they would have been taken care of by family. Perhaps I was a bit neurotic, but the fact that the McCann's left these precious children alone night after night (3 under the age of 4 for Pete's sake) is simply beyond my imagination. They won't even admit they did anything wrong!

In my opinion, if they were capable of that type of negiligence, then they were capable of either accidently or by violence of causing the death of Maddie and then trying to cover it up to protect themselves and their careers. I can only hope that they will find an ounce of parental responsiblity and guilt, and confess to what happened to that precious and innocent little girl.

[teacherbees]

sleuthin4fun - Truthfully, if it were me (and it has been, in the past!), I would NOT leave my almost 17 year old daughter home alone.

One of my neighbors was a pilot for Delta, before he retired a few years ago. He and his wife would frequently go on trips, leaving their daughter home alone. She was a good kid but I think the temptation was too great - just about every time they left, she'd have these wild parties. You'd see kids going in the house with beer, and hear them jumping off the patio roof into their pool. Drunk kids jumping into a not that deep pool - talk about a recipe for disaster! One morning, I found one of her guests passed out on my front lawn.

Yes, I did call the cops on her - time and again. And I wasn't ashamed to tell her I did as I figured it was for her safety.

I realize your daughter isn't this child. But, generally speaking, kids need supervision. When I was in in my early twenties, I remember being asked to stay with the teenage children of a family we knew from church. They had to leave town for a funeral and even though their children were in their mid-teens, they thought it was best to have an overseer to their daily life.

Smart parents. And then there's those wretched McCanns - who think it's just dandy to leave babies three and under alone. Ugghhhhh...they disgust me.

[Texana]

Those were great, safe times. I wouldn't even think of letting my kids do the same today.

I agree. Same as if, someone offered you a ride home when you were walking, you could accept without fear.

Yeah, the McCann comment about "same as being in the garden" is so galling.

[aussie_mum]

I can't even go to sleep if my kids are awake!

[CaliKid]

sleuthin4fun - Truthfully, if it were me (and it has been, in the past!), I would NOT leave my almost 17 year old daughter home alone.

One of my neighbors was a pilot for Delta, before he retired a few years ago. He and his wife would frequently go on trips, leaving their daughter home alone. She was a good kid but I think the temptation was too great - just about every time they left, she'd have these wild parties. You'd see kids going in the house with beer, and hear them jumping off the patio roof into their pool. Drunk kids jumping into a not that deep pool - talk about a recipe for disaster! One morning, I found one of her guests passed out on my front lawn.

Yes, I did call the cops on her - time and again. And I wasn't ashamed to tell her I did as I figured it was for her safety.

I realize your daughter isn't this child. But, generally speaking, kids need supervision. When I was in in my early twenties, I remember being asked to stay with the teenage children of a family we knew from church. They had to leave town for a funeral and even though their children were in their mid-teens, they thought it was best to have an overseer to their daily life.

Smart parents. And then there's those wretched McCanns - who think it's just dandy to leave babies three and under alone. Ugghhhhh...they disgust me.

Now me? I have a 17-year-old daughter, and I have no problem leaving her home by herself. She's a responsible girl, doesn't smoke or drink and I know all of her friends. They're all good kids. The three youngest and I went on a 4-day vacation last summer and she's at that age where she didn't want to go. I let her stay home, and she did just fine with two of her best friends taking turns keeping her company. I even asked the neighbors afterwards and they said there were no problems.

[docwho3]

According to a the N.G . TV show no one other than the parents saw little Madeleine alive after the time that was 2 hours before the dinner. If that is correct then the death of the child may have happened already and so they might have then decided to use the dinner to both build a fake alibi and also to deflect suspicion of a death by seeming to only be overly neglectful parents whose child was kidnapped.

This dinner act would cause people to think a death had not happened or at least had not yet happened.

This dinner act would set up a fake alibi for a faked time of a supposedly nondeath crime.

This dinner act would generate so much controversy over their alleged poor parenting as to deflect attention away from the thought of them having done anything criminal in the disappearance of little Madeleine.

*********
Why not hire someone to watch the children? My opinion is that it is possible: Perhaps they would have hired someone to watch the children if she had not died almost 2 hours before the dinner.

It is also possible they are innocent but for now the evidence being reported in MSM (Main Stream Media) seems to point at the parents being involved in the disappearance.

[BethInAK]

Heres a question, she will be 17. I had a breif thought of letting her stay at home by herself a few days. Thought that it would be nice for her because we live about 2 min. from her school. I am not sure that it is wise and, I would probably go crazy. What do you guys think?


My parents left me at 17, several times. I had the dog for protection and I was a responsible kid.
Do you have a neighbor who can watch out for inappropriate guests?

[Show Me]

IMO, Gerry and Kate McCann have a lot of nerve comparing what they did to leaving kids upstairs sleeping while the parents are "in the garden". For one thing your children are behind a locked door, and people's gardens (yards) are not 100 yards away across shrubbery, sidewalks, a parking lot and a swimming pool.

Exactly!

I hope they didn't give this advice to any patients of theirs!

"Doctor when can I leave my babies with a sitter?"

"Oh heck, forget the sitter...give them a sleeping pill, lock the door and go down the street to play bridge at the Jones'."

[goddess]

When you are a parent, you are one 24/7. Can't have it both ways.

What is both ways? Do parents have to give up their life aqnd sacrifice every bit of leisure once they have kids? Because I sure dont buy THAT old train of thought.

If you mean have your fun responsibly, with your kids well taken care of(not doped up!), then I totally agree.

[goddess]

I totally hear what you're saying.

What I see happening more and more with some people with kids is that the kids come along and are expected to ADAPT to the parents' lifestyle and not visa-versa. When you have kids, things CHANGE. You no longer have the freedom you did before and you have a lot more responsibility. I see more and more that people just expect the kids to fit into the lifestyle that existed before they came along, when (IMHO) it should be the other way around.


I toally disagree. When I had kids, I expected and still expect them to fit into MY schedule and world, while over the years carving out their own way of life with my guidance. I certainly will not change my lifestyle to fit any other human being, esp one I have to eventually kick out of the nest!

[Rino]

I just want to ask one question from my fellow sleuthers. Would you ever have left your toddlers alone to go out and eat dinner?
Never!

[goddess]

The parents did not hire anyone because they are neglectful, there is no other way around it. They are 100% responsible for what happened to their daughter by virtue of them neglecting her welfare. I actually quit college long ago when the baby was 2, due to his lazy father falling asleep and therefore neglecting him :( I came home one day, and the idiot says, Guess wat JR learned to do today? Open the screen door to the front deck!! I never went back.

To me, leaving three under four alone in a strange holiday apartment is a crime itself, and I dont know why the parents were not charged right away with neglect.

[goddess]

According to a the N.G . TV show no one other than the parents saw little Madeleine alive after the time that was 2 hours before the dinner. If that is correct then the death of the child may have happened already and so they might have then decided to use the dinner to both build a fake alibi and also to deflect suspicion of a death by seeming to only be overly neglectful parents whose child was kidnapped.

This dinner act would cause people to think a death had not happened or at least had not yet happened.

This dinner act would set up a fake alibi for a faked time of a supposedly nondeath crime.

This dinner act would generate so much controversy over their alleged poor parenting as to deflect attention away from the thought of them having done anything criminal in the disappearance of little Madeleine.

*********
Why not hire someone to watch the children? My opinion is that it is possible: Perhaps they would have hired someone to watch the children if she had not died almost 2 hours before the dinner.

It is also possible they are innocent but for now the evidence being reported in MSM (Main Stream Media) seems to point at the parents being involved in the disappearance.

Excellent points!

[Rino]

I had to travel to Hawaii for a trial some years back and was originally going to be gone for six weeks. My mother in law flew in from Germany to stay with my husband and kids. I ended up only being gone for three weeks, but it was the longest three weeks of my life!!! I'll never do that again. I was in paradise and didn't even enjoy it.
I have never traveled without my kids until my oldest graduated hs. I not only worried something would happen to them but God forbid something happened to my husband and I, leaving them on their own.

[goddess]

Exactly!

I hope they didn't give this advice to any patients of theirs!

"Doctor when can I leave my babies with a sitter?"

"Oh heck, forget the sitter...give them a sleeping pill, lock the door and go down the street to play bridge at the Jones'."


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Rino]

englisleigh- It is really hard no matter what age they are to leave them. If I had my way we wouldn't go but, my husband says "we are going." I even said I would stay home and the rest could go. "No deal" he says. I know that it will be a good time. I just seems so weird to plan a trip with her not included. I guess maybe it's time I let go a little. I will admit I am not good at it.
Heres a question, she will be 17. I had a breif thought of letting her stay at home by herself a few days. Thought that it would be nice for her because we live about 2 min. from her school. I am not sure that it is wise and, I would probably go crazy. What do you guys think?
Hard call. I could not do it, so if forced I would not enjoy the trip. (my husband says I owe him for years of missed trips because of it - cool:D )

[sleuthin4fun]

sleuthin4fun - Truthfully, if it were me (and it has been, in the past!), I would NOT leave my almost 17 year old daughter home alone.

One of my neighbors was a pilot for Delta, before he retired a few years ago. He and his wife would frequently go on trips, leaving their daughter home alone. She was a good kid but I think the temptation was too great - just about every time they left, she'd have these wild parties. You'd see kids going in the house with beer, and hear them jumping off the patio roof into their pool. Drunk kids jumping into a not that deep pool - talk about a recipe for disaster! One morning, I found one of her guests passed out on my front lawn.

Yes, I did call the cops on her - time and again. And I wasn't ashamed to tell her I did as I figured it was for her safety.

I realize your daughter isn't this child. But, generally speaking, kids need supervision. When I was in in my early twenties, I remember being asked to stay with the teenage children of a family we knew from church. They had to leave town for a funeral and even though their children were in their mid-teens, they thought it was best to have an overseer to their daily life.

Smart parents. And then there's those wretched McCanns - who think it's just dandy to leave babies three and under alone. Ugghhhhh...they disgust me.

I know that things happened like this when I was in high school. I am truely not inclined to leave her alone and she does have a place to stay but, kinda wondered if I am being freakishly over protective.

[sleuthin4fun]

I can't even go to sleep if my kids are awake!

Me either aussie!

[sleuthin4fun]

Now me? I have a 17-year-old daughter, and I have no problem leaving her home by herself. She's a responsible girl, doesn't smoke or drink and I know all of her friends. They're all good kids. The three youngest and I went on a 4-day vacation last summer and she's at that age where she didn't want to go. I let her stay home, and she did just fine with two of her best friends taking turns keeping her company. I even asked the neighbors afterwards and they said there were no problems.


See cali, This is were I struggle. My daughter is very responsible and I know that there would be no drinking , smoking ect... My biggest concern is someone knowing she is home alone and harm coming to her. I think I watch to many movies and read this site too often.

[teacherbees]

You are obviously a loving and concerned parent and no one knows your child better than you do. You've given a valid worry (someone knowing she's alone and coming to harm her) but you've also indicated she's a very resonsible young lady. I have one of those myself and I truly feel like she is mature enough (and was at 17) to keep herself safe.

So, in the end - you'll make the call and it will be a wise one.

[Texana]

See cali, This is were I struggle. My daughter is very responsible and I know that there would be no drinking , smoking ect... My biggest concern is someone knowing she is home alone and harm coming to her. I think I watch to many movies and read this site too often.

Have you heard of the book Queen Bees and Wanna Bes by Rosalind Wiseman? She has a very funny and smart chapter on how to know if your teenager had a party while you were gone. I can't remember what she (she was a school counselor for years) may have said in the end about leaving them for a weekend but the line "the house will be scrupulously clean but there will not be one roll of toilet paper left" still makes me laugh.

It is hard to know what to do in these situations!

I had a former neighbor who told me as soon as we moved in, "If you ever see a bunch of cars at our house, it means we are gone and our son is having a party. Call the sheriff."

So the first day of spring break, we saw cars starting to arrive. First a couple, then more, then as the day went into evening, groups began arriving. I called the house twice but no one would answer. So I called the sheriff.

Then we watched as the kids began spilling out like ants out of an anthill.

Later my neighbor told me her son told he he was actually glad that the sheriff came. The party was starting to get out of control and he had no idea how to stop it--and he was getting scared.

[jilly]

Later my neighbor told me her son told he he was actually glad that the sheriff came. The party was starting to get out of control and he had no idea how to stop it--and he was getting scared.

That's the thing Texana - word gets out and kids come in droves. Most of the time they don't even know the kid having the party!

[Squishified]

29???? Twenty-Nine years old??? You're a baby!!!!! LOL I'm kidding. I never pictured you so young. You're very intelligent for being so young!!!!!
Did you ever get that bike????
I've been 29 for several years now.

[Brefie]

I've been 29 for several years now.

Yes, Squishy, I moved in legitimately last year....I plan on being here for at least a few more years.

[Squishified]

Yes, Squishy, I moved in legitimately last year....I plan on being here for at least a few more years.
It's fun staying 29 for years. Enjoy! :p

[southcitymom]

Now me? I have a 17-year-old daughter, and I have no problem leaving her home by herself. She's a responsible girl, doesn't smoke or drink and I know all of her friends. They're all good kids. The three youngest and I went on a 4-day vacation last summer and she's at that age where she didn't want to go. I let her stay home, and she did just fine with two of her best friends taking turns keeping her company. I even asked the neighbors afterwards and they said there were no problems.

I think it depends on the child and the parent. When I was 17, I was in college and was unparentally supervised at all times. I think most 17 year olds should be learning how to stay along responsibly. After all, they are leaning heavily on the door to adulthood.

[NewMom2003]

I just want to ask one question from my fellow sleuthers. Would you ever have left your toddlers alone to go out and eat dinner?

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!! If we were going someplace that was not appropriate for my child, then we just wouldn't go. I would never put my "wants" to go somewhere ahead of my children's safety. NEVER!

That's why I just don't get why these people left 3 small children alone while they went out to dinner. I don't care how close they thought they were to them. The reasoning that they didn't want to leave them with strangers is just plain stupid. Wouldn't you rather hire a "stranger" caregiver rather than leave them alone in a hotel room? :waitasec: Why didn't they just take the children with them if this was a family vacation?

[CaliKid]

See cali, This is were I struggle. My daughter is very responsible and I know that there would be no drinking , smoking ect... My biggest concern is someone knowing she is home alone and harm coming to her. I think I watch to many movies and read this site too often.

Yes, I can see how you would be worried. I have the luxury of living in a quiet, very safe neighborhood of mostly retirees. In fact, except for my daughter, the oldest children around here are middle-schoolers. She and I had an agreement that if I left her home she could not tell any of her friends (except the two who stayed) she was home by herself. And she didn't want to- she wanted the peace and quiet of hanging with her two BFF's without a lot of people popping in.

[CaliKid]

That's the thing Texana - word gets out and kids come in droves. Most of the time they don't even know the kid having the party!

This happened to my sister and b.i.l a few months ago. They went on vacation and left their two supposedly-responsible sons home. Even though he'd been warned not to do it, the youngest- age 15- decided to invite a few friends over. Before he knew it, kids he didn't even know were all over his house. They stole his mom's jewelry and mementos his dad saved from his grandfather, drank every drop of liquor and trashed the place. Older brother was working two jobs and didn't even know what was going on until he came home at 1 a.m. and found 30 teenagers doing everything imaginable. Oooooh, was my nephew in t-r-o-u-b-l-e! He's still grounded.

[KR2tonenow]

ahhh, the 2 million pound question?

[CaliKid]

According to a the N.G . TV show no one other than the parents saw little Madeleine alive after the time that was 2 hours before the dinner. If that is correct then the death of the child may have happened already and so they might have then decided to use the dinner to both build a fake alibi and also to deflect suspicion of a death by seeming to only be overly neglectful parents whose child was kidnapped.

This dinner act would cause people to think a death had not happened or at least had not yet happened.

This dinner act would set up a fake alibi for a faked time of a supposedly nondeath crime.

This dinner act would generate so much controversy over their alleged poor parenting as to deflect attention away from the thought of them having done anything criminal in the disappearance of little Madeleine.

*********
Why not hire someone to watch the children? My opinion is that it is possible: Perhaps they would have hired someone to watch the children if she had not died almost 2 hours before the dinner.

It is also possible they are innocent but for now the evidence being reported in MSM (Main Stream Media) seems to point at the parents being involved in the disappearance.

According to rumor, the McCanns hired a sitter and then canceled. I don't know when or why. Perhaps because Madeleine was already dead?

[KR2tonenow]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

take 2 two pills and call me the AM (oops sorry!!!)

[SleuthMom]

According to rumor, the McCanns hired a sitter and then canceled. I don't know when or why. Perhaps because Madeleine was already dead?

Really? Any references you could provide? Thanks. :)

[ThoughtFox]

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER!!! If we were going someplace that was not appropriate for my child, then we just wouldn't go. I would never put my "wants" to go somewhere ahead of my children's safety. NEVER!

That's why I just don't get why these people left 3 small children alone while they went out to dinner. I don't care how close they thought they were to them. The reasoning that they didn't want to leave them with strangers is just plain stupid. Wouldn't you rather hire a "stranger" caregiver rather than leave them alone in a hotel room? :waitasec: Why didn't they just take the children with them if this was a family vacation?

I am asking myself the same question, and was just talking about this on another thread. They could have left the kids back in England, right? They could have gone on an adults-only vacation for a shorter amount of time. So why in the world do they call this a "family vacation" if they compartmentalized the children into an early bedtime at night so they could party?

Maybe I am naive, and I know I'm not well-travelled, but I do live in a touristy area, and I've been to ocean resorts. My impression has always been that the families on vacation eat meals together, kids and all, even if dinner is later than usual. I cannot imagine people in the U.S. getting away with leaving toddlers alone in a big hotel while they go down to a bar, for instance. I'm sure people probably do it, but if they got caught, the police would be called in. And according to reports, the McCanns did this many times and no one thought it was strange.

And I've only known one mother EVER who had a 7:30 bedtime for a four year old. Some kids are more wide awake and that would never work. If all of the people vacationing down there were doctors, I think all of them should be asked how important it was to all of them that the kids be in bed asleep, and just what lengths they were willing to go to in order for that to happen. It's just such bad judgment that it's impossible to figure out.

[southcitymom]

And I've only known one mother EVER who had a 7:30 bedtime for a four year old..... .

Add me to your list! My kids are 5 and 7 and have a 7:30 bedtime and it's been that way forever. We relax it though on weekends and vacation.

[spacecowboy]

Something that has made me suspicious since the beginning is the way the McCanns seem to be happy to leave their twins in a creche or wherever it is they are left since Madeleine disappeared.
I've not had a child kidnapped but I'm pretty sure in that situation my remaining children would not be out of my sight for even a second. I'd be paranoid and would no way go abroad without them Iin fact i'd not go abroad with out my children in any circumstance. My husband and I go out seperately so our youngest is happy. He's too young to leave with anyone else like a babysitter at the moment.
This makes me feel they already know there's no outside threat to their family.

[Brefie]

Something that has made me suspicious since the beginning is the way the McCanns seem to be happy to leave their twins in a creche or wherever it is they are left since Madeleine disappeared.
I've not had a child kidnapped but I'm pretty sure in that situation my remaining children would not be out of my sight for even a second. I'd be paranoid and would no way go abroad without them Iin fact i'd not go abroad with out my children in any circumstance. My husband and I go out seperately so our youngest is happy. He's too young to leave with anyone else like a babysitter at the moment.
This makes me feel they already know there's no outside threat to their family.

I thought about that too. But with ALL the focus on that whole area (media, authorities, busybodies) at some point common sense must prevail, ain't no-one gonna try snatching anyone else's kids during a time like that. Especially not from the same family.

[Show Me]

Maybe I am naive, and I know I'm not well-travelled, but I do live in a touristy area, and I've been to ocean resorts. My impression has always been that the families on vacation eat meals together, kids and all, even if dinner is later than usual.

And I've only known one mother EVER who had a 7:30 bedtime for a four year old.


When our kids were that age it was McDonalds, Chuck E. Cheese, the kiddy pool, swings...if hubby and I went on a short adult vacation one of our mothers or sibs watched the kids. The McCanns were not on a 'family' vacation IMO!

Our kids had an 8:00 bedtime and after a warm bath, tooth brushing, prayers and beddy bye story they were ready to sleep.

[pedinurse]

they were drunk swingers. the less people around to pick up on that, the better.

[PaperDoll]

Ok, I have a question here and I haven't read through the whole thread, yet :D :o ... Was this a "swingers" resort/vacation they were on? If so, since when do you take kids to something like that?

[pedinurse]

Ok, I have a question here and I haven't read through the whole thread, yet :D :o ... Was this a "swingers" resort/vacation they were on? If so, since when do you take kids to something like that?

No. It was a family resort.

[PaperDoll]

No. It was a family resort.


Thanks :p So this was a family vacation but they met some swingers at a bar. They should have just left the kids at home with someone else to watch them while they went off to play..

[Show Me]

Were the McCanns really swingers?

Did one of the friends admit the vacation was a 'swinging' vacation with the kids?

Seems weird so many swingers would take their children along.

[Brefie]

Were the McCanns really swingers?

Did one of the friends admit the vacation was a 'swinging' vacation with the kids?

Seems weird so many swingers would take their children along.

Not to my knowledge. I have never read it anyplace but on this board.

[Juliana]

I have a question. I think I've read the McC's had scheduled a sitter or baby listening service or whatever but did they cancel it? If so, when was it canceled?

[SleuthMom]

Not to my knowledge. I have never read it anyplace but on this board.

Some quick links that makes mention of it, definitely not something from this board alone: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22419443-2703,00.html http://www.anorak.co.uk/madeleine-mccann/176345.html

[CaliKid]

Really? Any references you could provide? Thanks. :)

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/index.php?storyID=58107-Maddie

There was also a story from one of the resort workers who had spoken to the McCanns about leaving their children unattended.

http://www.infobae.com/contenidos/331952-100796-0-Crecen-las-sospechas-contra-los-padres-Madeleine

"The search for a new personality in the desperate search of the small British four-year-old is complicating even more the McCanns' situation.

The Technical Services Director of the Ocean Club resort, Silvia Batista, affirmed that the same night on which Madeleine disappeared, she in person offered child-minding services "because the hotel is responsible for its clients' children, but they rejected that". Madeleine was seen for the last time on the 3rd of May when she was sleeping next to her siblings in a rented room in a hotel in Praia da Luz, in the south of Portugal. The parents of the little girl are being questioned for having left her alone in that room in order to go to eat with some friends.

According to the director of the hotel, "every month registries of robberies in the area are kept, and we therefore advise the service of a child-minder", but even knowing this, Maddie's parents did not accept it. Batista confirmed in an interview with the website Globo.com that the hotel has been working from the start with the Police to find the little girl. The director added that the room used by the McCann family was closed the first two months, then was opened for 15 days, but was then closed once again. Also, the director of the resort pointed out that in the area there are "many inquisitive people, but they do not disrupt the routine of the place.

"We did not bear the blame for the disappearance of the little girl, it couldn't be said whose fault it was, but certainly not ours", assured the director and indicated that "the parents of the girl that night were very unconcerned", and there was no reason they should not have requested the service of a child-minder.

[CaliKid]

Not to my knowledge. I have never read it anyplace but on this board.

I have read it on other boards, particularly the Mirror forums, but all it seems to be is rumor. I don't believe it because, for one, who would bring their mother (like Fiona Payne did) on a swinger's vacation?

[pedinurse]

Were the McCanns really swingers?

Did one of the friends admit the vacation was a 'swinging' vacation with the kids?

Seems weird so many swingers would take their children along.

Oh it is just a hypothesis! But I just can't think of any other reason not to get a babysitter for your kids when the resort has them readily available or to bring your nanny when you are a successful doctor, well educated, you KNOW what can happen when you leave your kids unattended... I mean, they weren't stupid people who just would leave their children unattended for no reason. They didn't want people around for a reason. SOMETHING was going on.