??search Efforts For Maddy??

[KOOL LOOK]

:waitasec: Has everyone quit searching for Maddy? I don't recall there ever being a large organized search party conducted by any certain group of lookers, does anyone know of any?

What has the parents themselves physically done, or their family to locate and look for Maddy?

This has been puzzling me for two days now. Then I began to realize I haven't seen or heard of searches early on or later on. I know they looked in the first hours for her. Other than that, not anything significant.

I could be wrong, I wasn't keeping up word for word, report by report. I know countries do things differently than other countries. But it's basic 101, your getting back to the basics of abc 1 2 3.

Walk the terrain with grids, volunteers, tracker dogs, door to door, searching through buildings, homes, and I don't see it. Why does it seem this search is over with before it actually even began?

The money in the fund has pretty much sat dormant, with the only activity concerning it is discussion about it's growth, who contributed, naming the overseers, and what's is to be done or not done with it. But actually not alot has been done with it either.

Just seems like all talk, no action. Find madeliene campaign, but nothing done to find her. Just talking heads saying find her.

I'm confused, if it was my daughter I still would be walking the terrain, until I felt it had been searched to the best of our abilities. I would have to have proof she was taken out the country, or definately dead, but then I still would want my girls dead body back.

What can still be done in our opinions to help move this case forward, what can we do. Start a petition to give to portugal police demanding more public information so that we can help locate her or find some kind of resovve instead of just a legal criminal resolve convicting the guilty.

We still have a non criminal side to this case, finding maddy. I would almost be willing to let the perps go in order to find her, give proper burial, a resolve to honor her.

[KOOL LOOK]

A couple of posters have mentioned that the parents were advised to leave the search up to the professionals. I'm going to have to say hogwash, bologna.

If the portugal police did tell them to do this, shame on them. Now, they may very well have meant certain aspects of the search, like dangerous areas of terain, entering personal property etc...

But it doesn't make a bit of sense law enforcement would tell the family to not search.

Even if they did, what person would be so stupid, stupid ain't the word for it. Dumber than a swamp worm, yeah, that' sounds better to let anyone tell them to not search for their own child. I'm sorry, this scenerio and excuse is exactly that, an excuse if it's used to justify not getting out and looking.

If you loose your keys, you look for them. Did I read gerry had lost his wallet at some time? I might be confused about another thread though.

[Rino]

I think Portugal the law restricts the use of private investigators during a police investigation. There is not one good reason why they use that excuse for not having private investigations in their many travels across the globe.

[KOOL LOOK]

Wouldn't volunteer searchers not be considered private investigators? I could sort of see that. But hey, most of the cases we're aware of private investigators if at all, plays a small part.

The capture, of the criminal, locating the missing has been so successful because of the physical grid searches, it works. That needs to be done. It also forces the contact of possible witnesses or persons having heard vital information and clues.

[STEADFAST]

A couple of posters have mentioned that the parents were advised to leave the search up to the professionals. I'm going to have to say hogwash, bologna.

If the portugal police did tell them to do this, shame on them. Now, they may very well have meant certain aspects of the search, like dangerous areas of terain, entering personal property etc...

But it doesn't make a bit of sense law enforcement would tell the family to not search.

Even if they did, what person would be so stupid, stupid ain't the word for it. Dumber than a swamp worm, yeah, that' sounds better to let anyone tell them to not search for their own child. I'm sorry, this scenerio and excuse is exactly that, an excuse if it's used to justify not getting out and looking.

If you loose your keys, you look for them. Did I read gerry had lost his wallet at some time? I might be confused about another thread though.

People aren't free to do whatever they please if it is illegal or prohibited. It's not unknown for private search efforts to be blocked or impeded by law enforcement, especially in places where it might be seen as impinging on the sovereign rights of a nation -- OR where LE for some reason does not want the missing person to be found.

But the thing is, is that what happened in this case? Did the parents make no effort to search or were the parents not allowed to search? Let's try to find out.

ETA: Or did the parents search on their own after all?

[KOOL LOOK]

People aren't free to do whatever they please if it is illegal or prohibited. It's not unknown for private search efforts to be blocked or impeded by law enforcement, especially in places where it might be seen as impinging on the sovereign rights of a nation -- OR where LE for some reason does not want the missing person to be found.

But the thing is, is that what happened in this case? Did the parents make no effort to search or were the parents not allowed to search? Let's try to find out.

ETA: Or did the parents search on their own after all?

I'm patiently waiting. I just don't really understand. The fliers were put up. You can see her posters in almost every photo taken in that country somewhere in the background. If she wandered off, children do that, climb in the back of a vehicle, there just hasn't been proper searching to me.

[STEADFAST]

I'm patiently waiting. I just don't really understand. The fliers were put up. You can see her posters in almost every photo taken in that country somewhere in the background. If she wandered off, children do that, climb in the back of a vehicle, there just hasn't been proper searching to me.

I certainly haven't seen any evidence of it either.

[englishleigh]

I certainly haven't seen any evidence of it either.

Me, either.

Part of me thinks that the McCanns are both doctors and probably used to being waited on somewhat, so they want OTHERS to do the searching FOR them.

Another part of me thinks that they know there's no need to search.

[KOOL LOOK]

Me, either.

Part of me thinks that the McCanns are both doctors and probably used to being waited on somewhat, so they want OTHERS to do the searching FOR them.

Another part of me thinks that they know there's no need to search.


Exactly steadfast and english. It's like a light bulb went off yesterday inside my head and i realized i haven't read or seen actual down right time consuming effort filled searches.

English, I have had that waiting to be waited on and waiting to have others do the searching for them feeling several times which is absolutely goes against the grain, goes against what I consider to be a normal reaction and instinct on the part of a parent in these types of circumstances.

[STEADFAST]

Me, either.

Part of me thinks that the McCanns are both doctors and probably used to being waited on somewhat, so they want OTHERS to do the searching FOR them.

Another part of me thinks that they know there's no need to search.

Don't they keep saying they know she's okay?

Now, let's just assume (or pretend, if you will) that they didn't kill her. Could it be that they just can't wrap their heads around the need to search the terrain for her? It would be admitting she could be dead -- especially horrifying since they did allow it to happen. Or maybe they are so prideful that they just don't think murder could happen to THEIR daughter just like they didn't think bad things could happen to toddlers left all alone? Maybe they don't want the attention to end? Any number of reason (admittedly lame) that they might not push hard for physical searches for their daughter besides that they murdered her.

Seems, though, that whenever someone doesn't seem interested in searching for their loved one, they turn out to know, like englishleigh said, that there's no need to search.

That's why it's so important to figure out just what search efforts have been made and who made the efforts.

[shrinkydink]

People aren't free to do whatever they please if it is illegal or prohibited. It's not unknown for private search efforts to be blocked or impeded by law enforcement, especially in places where it might be seen as impinging on the sovereign rights of a nation -- OR where LE for some reason does not want the missing person to be found.

But the thing is, is that what happened in this case? Did the parents make no effort to search or were the parents not allowed to search? Let's try to find out.

ETA: Or did the parents search on their own after all?

That's part of the problem - the police in Portugal have still not allowed the records of official searches to be released. I can find articles on that, and this one announcing how early they pulled back (May 11!!):

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/6704

I am still looking for the original article. The main reason I remember that article was that it said the McCanns said they felt totally abandoned when the police said, at 4.30 AM, if I recall correctly - "we've been at this for hours with dozens of people. There's not point in continuing until the sun comes up." The McCanns kept searching all alone after that.

Ironically, if the police thought the parents could be suspects at some point -which they should have, if they were doing their jobs - why on earth leave them alone for hours? Whether they were victims or perpetrators, this was a really ignorant move on the part of the police.

Shrinky, the searce for links continues...

[SleuthMom]

I think the issue is Portugal and the restriction laws. I mean, realistically, you cannot just call a crazy search if you do not even know where to start. BUT as a mom I may want to do that (I think any good parent would do that) but I am not sure in this case if there are legal restrictions.

I believe in the power of the Internet and I think the findmadeleine site is very poor and much more could be done to help search Madeleine. As a matter of fact, I recently found out it is run by two teenagers (18) who Aunt Phil knows from some sort of high school. Of course they are being paid to maintain the site and see about the "high" quality bands and "high" quality posters but VERY little information is given about HER, Madeleine. It is more like "donate, donate, donate" and using her pic like she is the face of Gerber products. :(

I think more concentration in the web site with HER DESCRIPTION (I know, a basic thing but is not there) as well as FREE flyers in at least dozens of languages would help the search.

When someone visit the site, they should find INFORMATION, PLENTY of it about her and LOTS of pictures, NOT go to a "Madeleine Web Store" to buy the "latest" wristband.

I think the net should be a great (if not the greatest tool). Too bad they are not using it properly.

[ceeaura]

I think the issue is Portugal and the restriction laws. I mean, realistically, you cannot just call a crazy search if you do not even know where to start. BUT as a mom I may want to do that (I think any good parent would do that) but I am not sure in this case if there are legal restrictions.

I believe in the power of the Internet and I think the findmadeleine site is very poor and much more could be done to help search Madeleine. As a matter of fact, I recently found out it is run by two teenagers (18) who Aunt Phil knows from some sort of high school. Of course they are being paid to maintain the site and see about the "high" quality bands and "high" quality posters but VERY little information is given about HER, Madeleine. It is more like "donate, donate, donate" and using her pic like she is the face of Gerber products. :(

I think more concentration in the web site with HER DESCRIPTION (I know, a basic thing but is not there) as well as FREE flyers in at least dozens of languages would help the search.

When someone visit the site, they should find INFORMATION, PLENTY of it about her and LOTS of pictures, NOT go to a "Madeleine Web Store" to but the "latest" wristband.

I think the net should be a great (if not the greatest tool). Too bad they are not using it properly.

I just read that article that said that the website was run by two teenagers.I also agree with you ,the site needs to be better in all kinds of languages and lots more info than what they have now..I feel most days as if the hunt for Madeleine is more like what actors do promoting their newest movie.They only give out bits and pieces but you have to go see the movie to get what the movie is really about.

Did that make sense?Think I might have even confused myself on that :doh:

[KOOL LOOK]

Whew, what a great day this is! :rolleyes: Maybe we can figure out what or why there hasn't been proper searches.

I'm just so happy right now, everyone. :angel: . Does anyone know of a grid search?

I'm so happy!!;)

[ceeaura]

Is it too late in time to do a grid search now?

[SleuthMom]

Did that make sense?Think I might have even confused myself on that :doh:

Oh yes, you did. Unfortunately, her sweet face is being used as a "product" (hence my comparison with Gerber) and I think in that same article, one of the teenagers said something similar.

I really think the internet could be used in so many ways to find her. I think is nice that these teens are running the site but I think (in this case) it should be left to professionals, we are speaking about a missing child here not a web store.

[englishleigh]

Whew, what a great day this is! :rolleyes: Maybe we can figure out what or why there hasn't been proper searches.

I'm just so happy right now, everyone. :angel: . Does anyone know of a grid search?

I'm so happy!!;)

Me, too, Kooly Baby!!! Woooooooooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooooo!!!
;)

[KOOL LOOK]

Me, too, Kooly Baby!!! Woooooooooooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooooooooo!!!
;)


I like my new name. I really do.

Ceaura, I don't know if it's too late to do a grid. I wouldn't think so. Because it's just as important to locate body, skeletal remains, etc.. Could still lead to clues as to what happened and the perps.

Many cold cases have been solved, don't forget, from old remains being found. As a matter of fact, one is being discussed in this forum recently where three different skeletal remains has been found behind a shopping center at different times of the years.

I had some just pm who is familiar with searches of this magnitude, and they relayed portugal isn't up on searching like we are here. NOt trained or have the faith in the dogs like we do.

But the parents, Britains are just as up to date if not more so, in investigating as we are. I dont' see the parents just sitting in the apartment doing nothing, but going outside, smiling and grimacing for the camera with cuddle cat, jog, tan, eat, occassional children seen with them.

[AfterMidnight]

Is it too late in time to do a grid search now?

Probably not. I believe it would be an ideal time. In many cases the body shows up very close, in areas already searched.

[Salem]

HEY, HEY, HEY, - they are looking!!!! Every 50 days or so, they release a bunch of balloons. The theory is that Maddie will see one of the balloons and call home.

The parents are expending a great deal of effort in organizing these balloon releases in several different countries. I must admit though, I'm still unsure if any of the balloons contain a cell phone or a calling card.:confused:

Salem

[Rino]

lol.. Salem.

They seem to be more focused on appearing to be concered and looking. How many times have we heard KM tell how she wants Maddie to know how hard they tried to find her as if the huge publicity works make for a more genuine search? Balloons - ha!

[KOOL LOOK]

HEY, HEY, HEY, - they are looking!!!! Every 50 days or so, they release a bunch of balloons. The theory is that Maddie will see one of the balloons and call home.

The parents are expending a great deal of effort in organizing these balloon releases in several different countries. I must admit though, I'm still unsure if any of the balloons contain a cell phone or a calling card.:confused:

Salem

I just can't help but feel the police know something has happened to Maddy, that's the only thing that makes sense to me as to not doing thorough searches, it's just basic police work. Investigating. But as an officer, I wouldn't search if I just knew she was disposed of.

Don't they have to be answering to these judges, government officials keeping them in check as to what they've done and achieved in their capacity? Surely even they have a check and blance system within their agencies, discussing the ins and outs. Analyzing their actions to not only locate maddy, but improve their overall performance. Give employee recognition, aawards, etc...

All companies and agencies discuss and counter check one another. Then, no one speaking up, like the public who aren't bound by them in an capacity other than citizenship.

What about national enquirer? They pay good money for good info., they've had many articles printed that are very true in other famous cases that turns out to be true. I havne't seen any from them. Anyone been keeping up with the enquirer on this case?

[Salem]

True - and then when the Dutch guy said they would find her buried in that big, barren field, the McCann's had a fit..... they were so unhappy about the searching. It was so irresponsible, etc. etc.

When the PLE finally searched they used about 12-20 officers for a total of 1.5 hours. Then they called the search off.

You couldn't have found anything in that amount of time with so few resources. Although... the press found a large towel. Never have heard what happened to that towel. I do believe PLE still has the towel, though.

Salem

[KOOL LOOK]

'LOCKED', oops sorry. Didn't one or more of our members actually contact the portugal police through pm's? Wonder what ever happened to the church search mentioned here first then the next day it was broadcast on the news as a point of interest from the police? 'BYE BYE"

[KOOL LOOK]

I guess the HUNT FOR MADDY is old news, over with, and has been for a long time. Maybe she'll be found in spite of it all, I pray so. Father move on her behalf, cause her to appear.

Now, I have faith she will be found, I couldn't find any in the realm of those directly involved and has the responsibility and charge to do it.

[AfterMidnight]

I read today, in one of the links, that this was the biggest search in Portuguese history although, everything is relative. What may be considered *big* in Portugal might be miniscule elsewhere. Maybe you should contact Portuguese LE and ask them - you do have a way with words.

[SleuthMom]

I read today, in one of the links, that this was the biggest search in Portuguese history although, everything is relative. What may be considered *big* in Portugal might be miniscule elsewhere.

That's true. Although I recall the Mc Canns saying they do not think she is in Portugal anymore...have no idea how they reached that conclusion though. :confused:

Maybe you should contact Portuguese LE and ask them - you do have a way with words.

I did not know KOOL LOOK speaks Portuguese! :) Do you KOOL? :) And you are right, she is really good with words. Good observation! :clap:

[Lurker]

What about Tim Miller and Co? Would he be allowed there to search?

[KOOL LOOK]

That's true. Although I recall the Mc Canns saying they do not think she is in Portugal anymore...have no idea how they reached that conclusion though. :confused:



I did not know KOOL LOOK speaks Portuguese! :) Do you KOOL? :) And you are right, she is really good with words. Good observation! :clap:

I can only speak English. If it was my daughter missing there though, I could communicate without words. There would be some searching going on. Somebody knows something about her whereabouts.

If my calling would make a difference I would be willing whole heartedly. But I just did what I felt was within my power to do for Maddy.

Maybe we can start a petition. I think the courts ought to appoint a guardian ad litem for Maddy, representing her that can speak for her best interests and be an unbiased party to this mess. Then maybe they could demand the publics money be spent to search for Maddy, just in case there is a unknown perp placing the public in harms way and needs to be apprehended.

That would be justice for Maddy at this time, to get that third party involved to look out for just her, no one elses interests.

[KOOL LOOK]

What about Tim Miller and Co? Would he be allowed there to search?

I don't know if he has been personally denied access, or has volunteered. Some will report it's illegal, they can't go over there and search, blah blah.

Someone needs to move the court to appoint a party with authority to entertain and investigate all possibilities in the non-hunt for Maddy. Doesn't seem anyone wants that done. We know the perp wouldn't be screaming from the roof tops for organized searches, but what about the family, the parents, child protective services, the big pocket money givers publically speaking out what they want the money to be spent on, which hasn't been done.

[Lurker]

I don't know if he has been personally denied access, or has volunteered. Some will report it's illegal, they can't go over there and search, blah blah.

Someone needs to move the court to appoint a party with authority to entertain and investigate all possibilities in the non-hunt for Maddy. Doesn't seem anyone wants that done. We know the perp wouldn't be screaming from the roof tops for organized searches, but what about the family, the parents, child protective services, the big pocket money givers publically speaking out what they want the money to be spent on, which hasn't been done.

He went to Aruba to search for Natalie right? Does he have to be requested by LE or the parents to come or does he volunteer on his own? I know if my child was missing, him or someone like him would be the 2nd call I made (after LE)!!

[KOOL LOOK]

He went to Aruba to search for Natalie right? Does he have to be requested by LE or the parents to come or does he volunteer on his own? I know if my child was missing, him or someone like him would be the 2nd call I made (after LE)!!


Great post and I'm with you 100%. Me too. Heck, I'd probably call him before police. I remember he did go to Aruba and look for Natalie, saw an interview with him, he was hindered at first trying to go in for a long time. To my knowledge, I believe he was upset with Arubian Police.

I thought I read somewhere that he did volunteer for this case, I could be wrong, don't know about the parents or law enforcement asking him. I'm sure portugal police didn't ask him, for they may not even know about him.

[Texana]

Texas Equusearch is a non-profit group made up of volunteers, they usually come in when they are asked but obviously as volunteers they can't volunteer time and huge amounts of travel expenses unless someone covers the costs.

They are usually doing other not high publicity searches as well, honestly, for people who don't always have the advantage of a big media campaign.

[Jdee]

I know the LE searched Murat's house and the grounds more than once. And they searched the Mark Warner resort but how well...?
I never read the McCann's searched anywhere other than the night she went missing and they stayed up late to walk the cliff area calling her name.
A lot of good that did.

[KOOL LOOK]

Do we have an e-mail for the portugal police or any of the relevant investigators? I'm entertaining the possibility to see if my way with words gets me anywhere. Probably straight to the slammer! :woohoo:

[SleuthMom]

KOOL LOOK, I think someone here posted an e-mail for them. Not sure where I saw it though.

[AfterMidnight]

KOOL LOOK, I think someone here posted an e-mail for them. Not sure where I saw it though.

Is there an address on Gerry's blog? I've never been there so I don't have the url, but I believe some of the rest do.

[CaliKid]

The McCanns contacted the police 40-50 minutes after Kate returned to the Tapas bar. The local police called in the PJ who arrived around midnight. By then the McCanns had roused the resort managers as well as neighbors who began looking for Madeleine around Ocean Club and Praia da Luz. Supposedly the McCanns' friends didn't help, and Kate stayed with the twins while Gerry called for her along the cliffs and on the beach. The formal search, carried out by the police and including firemen, mariners and search helicopters lasted for several days.

[KOOL LOOK]

KOOL LOOK, I think someone here posted an e-mail for them. Not sure where I saw it though.

I don't know if you're rooting for me to help Maddy or straight to the slammer. :p

Is there an address on Gerry's blog? I've never been there so I don't have the url, but I believe some of the rest do.

Same to you Aftermidnight. I do have to question you and sleuthmom's motives, te he. :croc:

The only thing that has ever made sense in a "wandered off" scenario was if she got hurt in a way that was someone else's fault. Say she was hit by a car and the person was so afraid of being blamed that he/she took and hid her body.

Cali, that could be a good possibility. It just dawned on me though, you can hear when a car impacts something for a good bit of distances. Like several hundred yards. Wouldn't there be some kind of evidence left on the road, a scream, a sharp screech of tires pulling off abruptly gaining attention. It would have to be totally calculated to be in complete control upon accidently hitting someone, having to stop, retrieve the injured person and move on with no hysteria by the driver. Even a piece of the vehicle left, anything?

But, this scenerio could be plausible.

[SleuthMom]

I don't know if you're rooting for me to help Maddy or straight to the slammer. :p

Rooting for you to help Maddie, of course! You know you are one of my favorites persons in the forum. :)


Same to you Aftermidnight. I do have to question you and sleuthmom's motives, te he. :croc:

That one, I can't answer. LOL


Aftermidnight, I do not think I saw that e-mail address in Gerry's blog but right here in the forum. I will search for it.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

http://www.findmadeleine.com/about/

About Madeleine McCann




Madeleine McCann was born 4 years ago. She has one brother Sean and a sister Amelie. She lives with her family in Rothley, Leicestershire.

Her father comes from Glasgow and has 3 sisters, Patricia, Jacqueline and Phil, and a brother John. Madeleine's Grandmother, Eileen lives in Glasgow. Her other grandparents, Sue and Brian live in Liverpool.

Both sides of the family are very close and all are working in different ways to try and help in the search for Madeleine.

Phil, who resides in Ullapool and is a teacher, has asked that the heartfelt thanks of the whole family be passed to everyone who has helped in the search so far. She said "There have been so many messages of support and prayers from people all over the world. We (the family) are overwhelmed with your assistance. The media people have been wonderful and so helpful in making everyone aware of our plight. Madeleine’s family are so grateful to you all. Please keep Madeleine in your thoughts and prayers. We pray that she will be returned to us safe and well."



Well, lets see...Doesn't look to me like they are searching much...or even care to give out any real information.

I'm sure this has been rehashed a million times but I don't have time to read every post here...but WHY won't the McCann's give out more information on Maddie???

How tall is she?
How much does she weigh?
Is she bilingle...does she speak well at all?
What in the world is this above referenced post all about? It says it's about Madeleine, but all it really says about her is that she is 4 years old...

It talks about her father and his siblings and grandparents, but never mentions her mother? WTF??? This is so nuts!

[mjak]

I too am dismayed on the lack of searching on the parts of the parents. I do not care what country I was in no one could keep me for seraching for my child in some capacity. If I had to just hike all day long with a walking stick I would be doing that. No one can stop a person from hiking. I just could not not search. It does not compute rin my brain that parents would not be putting much more effort into a search effort of some sort.

mjak

[Trino]

Well, lets see...Doesn't look to me like they are searching much...or even care to give out any real information.

I'm sure this has been rehashed a million times but I don't have time to read every post here...but WHY won't the McCann's give out more information on Maddie???

How tall is she?
How much does she weigh?
Is she bilingle...does she speak well at all?
What in the world is this above referenced post all about? It says it's about Madeleine, but all it really says about her is that she is 4 years old...

It talks about her father and his siblings and grandparents, but never mentions her mother? WTF??? This is so nuts!

Maybe they were too busy being media persons that they forgot the important things.

[Edwards20]

That is very odd to me that it does not give more information on Maddie, AND you are correct ... Kate is not mentioned. Odd, to say the least.

So, WHO is handling the FUND ? I just assumed it was Kate and Gerry. Today was the first time I have actually visited the site. I stumbled across this ..... (perhaps it's being discussed somewhere on another thread).


http://www.findmadeleine.com/fund/
The Fund would like to thank everyone for their kindness, support and generosity.
Madeleine’s Fund was set up to:

Find Madeleine;
Support the Family; and
Bring the abductor or abductors to justiceand subject to that to help other missing children.

With the sudden dramatic and unexpected turn of events at the weekend the directors had to consider whether legal defence costs could be paid for by the Fund.

The Board has taken advice from Bates Wells & Braithwaite London LLP and Christopher McCall QC. The Board has been advised that payment of Gerry and Kate’s legal defence costs would be legally permissible subject to conditions about repayment in the event of a guilty conviction.

The directors of the Fund discussed this today. The two family directors, Brian Kennedy and John McCann withdrew from the meeting when the decision was made. Esther Mcvey chaired the meeting.

The Fund directors realise that there is not only a legal answer and recognise the spirit which underlies the generous donations to Madeleine’s Fund, which it is the directors’ responsibility to steer.

For this reason the Fund directors have decided not to pay for Gerry and Kate’s legal defence costs. We stress that Gerry and Kate have not asked for these costs to be paid. However, people have already called in offering their financial support. Any such fund to pay legal defence costs would have to be separately set up and administered.

At the heart of this campaign and Fund is a little girl confused, lonely and in need of her parents. This Fund’s money will be focused on finding that little girl and leaving no stone unturned.

12 September 2007

So, the 2 family members left the meeting when the remainder of the Board didn't vote to pay the legal expenses ? I am not sure they actually were able to vote.

Those directors who are members of Madeleine’s family cannot vote in discussions relating to payments to family members.

This is the list of the Board:

Peter Hubner; a retired consultant;
Brian Kennedy, a retired head teacher;
John McCann, a medical representative;
Esther McVey, managing director of a public relations & communications company;
Doug Skehan, clinical director in cardiology at Glenfield Hospital;
Philip Tomlinson, a retired solicitor and former coroner in Leicestershire;
Michael Linnett, a retired accountant

Another thing that has struck me oddly is this:

As at the end of July 2007, only a small proportion of the money raised has been spent. This has been on awareness raising items e.g. wristbands, website, family expenses and professional fees, including concerning international law on child abduction and the costs of setting up the Fund. The directors are considering the future strategy of the Fund to ensure effective use of funds.

How LONG do you wait to spend funds to find a child ?

I know this is a real "threadjack" here, so if I have overlooked another thread, please let me know.

WHY is Kate not mentioned ?? That is just so very odd to me.

[SleuthMom]

That is very odd to me that it does not give more information on Maddie, AND you are correct ... Kate is not mentioned. Odd, to say the least.

So, WHO is handling the FUND ? I just assumed it was Kate and Gerry. Today was the first time I have actually visited the site. I stumbled across this ..... (perhaps it's being discussed somewhere on another thread).


So, the 2 family members left the meeting when the remainder of the Board didn't vote to pay the legal expenses ? I am not sure they actually were able to vote.

Those directors who are members of Madeleine’s family cannot vote in discussions relating to payments to family members.

This is the list of the Board:

Peter Hubner; a retired consultant;
Brian Kennedy, a retired head teacher;
John McCann, a medical representative;
Esther McVey, managing director of a public relations & communications company;
Doug Skehan, clinical director in cardiology at Glenfield Hospital;
Philip Tomlinson, a retired solicitor and former coroner in Leicestershire;
Michael Linnett, a retired accountant

Yes, the fund is handled by both friends and relatives of the Mc Canns.


How LONG do you wait to spend funds to find a child ? .

That's the million dollar question some sane souls are asking!!!!!!!

[Edwards20]

Thanks Sleuth. You know I am still on the fence, but I gotta do my homework.

[Salem]

Another thing that has struck me oddly is this:

As at the end of July 2007, only a small proportion of the money raised has been spent. This has been on awareness raising items e.g. wristbands, website, family expenses and professional fees, including concerning international law on child abduction and the costs of setting up the Fund. The directors are considering the future strategy of the Fund to ensure effective use of funds.

How LONG do you wait to spend funds to find a child ?



Apparently until the parents are named suspects. There is a new advertising campaign, started the week after K&G were named suspects, to find Maddie. They are going to spend $160,000 pounds I think. I'm sure there is a link in the media thread.

Salem

[strach304]

I like the court appointed unbiased authority idea, but what court and who? I thought of Tim Miller right away myself for a lone type pedophile abduction if that's what's involved. We know in cases like that the victims are said to be killed within the first few hours. Tim Miller starts with the place of disappearance and works his grid out so I would like to see that done. There's no political or monetary motivations there we can be sure. Port LE's dogs if good imo had the leg up because they were brought to the scene early on even if not as good as British dogs brought in 3 months later. Good place to start. Take some luminol to Portugal also since they might not have it.

Again we have the strict laws, politics, tourism economy, LE reputations, human trafficking, ocean, etc. barriers just like NH's case.

[Salem]

Kool Look - here is the email I used to suggest they search the Church (Cali's idea, really).

dic.portimao@pj.pt <dic.portimao@pj.pt>

Salem

[IrishMist]

The McCanns contacted the police 40-50 minutes after Kate returned to the Tapas bar. The local police called in the PJ who arrived around midnight. By then the McCanns had roused the resort managers as well as neighbors who began looking for Madeleine around Ocean Club and Praia da Luz. Supposedly the McCanns' friends didn't help, and Kate stayed with the twins while Gerry called for her along the cliffs and on the beach. The formal search, carried out by the police and including firemen, mariners and search helicopters lasted for several days.


This doesn't match the information I'm finding. :waitasec:

From BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6984836.stm):

Mrs McCann told police that when she went to the apartment at 2200 she found the outside shutter and window to Madeleine's room had been opened and her daughter was missing.

Mrs McCann said police were called within 10 minutes of finding her daughter gone. Guilhermino Encarnacao, director of the judicial police in the Faro region, said officers arrived within 10 minutes of being alerted, and an investigation unit began work within 30 minutes

The manager of the Mark Warner resort in Portugal, John Hill, said about 60 staff and guests at the complex searched until daybreak for the little girl, while police notified border police, Spanish police and airports.

They were joined in their hunt by hundreds of volunteers in the following days.

More at the above link.

[CaliKid]

Mrs McCann said police were called within 10 minutes of finding her daughter gone.

Not true. If KM is saying this, she is lying.

http://gazetadigitalpraiadaluz.blogspot.com/2007/09/some-advice-to-penny-wark-correspondent.html

PAULO REIS, the editor of Gazeta Digital in Portugal, has done a very nice question and answer format here regarding Madeleine's disappearance. From the blog:

I had a different information (about the time police were called and whether they were out of their league). As the first Police officers to arrive at the crime scene were from Guarda Nacional Republicana (GNR) I called Lieutenant-Colonel Costa Cabral, head of Public Relations at Guarda Nacional Republicana headquarters, in Lisbon (phone number, email address are here). He told me that first call to GNR precinct at Lagos was received at 10.50 pm, May 3, and only after Police oficcers went there and evaluated the situation, CID in POrtimão was called.

Two GNR officers went to Ocean Club (a 10/15 minutes drive, from Lagos), evaluated the situation and than they called CID in Portimão, 25 km from Praia da Luz. They assembled a team and they were at the crime scene between 11h40, 11h50 pm, May 3.

Was vital time lost?

I think that vital time was lost between the moment Kate McCann realized her daughter was missing, around 10h00 pm, and the moment the first call was received at Police precinct, in Lagos: 50 minutes, time enough for a car to drive from Praia da Luz, following the highway A22, close to the Spanish border (a border that doesn’t exist, because since the Shengen Agreement was signed, countries that are members have no border control posts and can not put a road block in a border without asking, before, permission to do that, to the Shengen authority). Who is responsible for that, I'm not sure, yet.

And according to the testimony of Mrs. Fenn, the upstairs neighbor, she noticed Kate McCann a little after 10:00 on May 3 and asked if they wanted the police called. KM said they had taken care of it, but the police weren't actually summoned until 40 minutes later.

[Texana]

It's been confirmed by more than one news report that the police were not actually called for 40 minutes. Gerry McCann had called his friend from university days by then, which is why (reportedly) Sky News knew about the kidnapping before the Portuguese police did.

I'm still having a hard time with that one--that it took so long to call the police. I keep trying to think that perhaps in the mass confusion, Kate only thought someone else called the police--but usually in a crisis, one person takes responsibility for calling them and actually does so--as in "Call the police!" "I'll do it!"

In fact, sometimes more than one person calls in a crisis like this. There are well-meaning later arrivals who call as well.

I've wondered if the delay was deliberate because it was meant to buy someone time.

[CaliKid]

It's been confirmed by more than one news report that the police were not actually called for 40 minutes. Gerry McCann had called his friend from university days by then, which is why (reportedly) Sky News knew about the kidnapping before the Portuguese police did.

I'm still having a hard time with that one--that it took so long to call the police. I keep trying to think that perhaps in the mass confusion, Kate only thought someone else called the police--but usually in a crisis, one person takes responsibility for calling them and actually does so--as in "Call the police!" "I'll do it!"

In fact, sometimes more than one person calls in a crisis like this. There are well-meaning later arrivals who call as well.

I've wondered if the delay was deliberate because it was meant to buy someone time.
In my experience when a crime or accident involves a loved one, people are usually falling all over themselves to call the police. IMO, I think they were stalling in order to conceal the true reason Maddie "disappeared".

[Texana]

In my experience when a crime or accident involves a loved one, people are usually falling all over themselves to call the police. IMO, I think they were stalling in order to conceal the true reason Maddie "disappeared".

Exactly! You don't get one call, you get multiple ones. I remember my older daughter swallowing a penny once around the same age and I would have called myself no matter who else called--or said they called.

Forty minutes can be a very long time.

[philamena]

Are you saying that people usually call 911 (or the police) more than once during a crisis? Maybe I misunderstood what you're saying.

Here in the US that usually isn't necessary because the 911 operators stay on the line until LE or the fire department arrives. When JonBenet Ramsey was thought to be missing, Patsy called 911.....but only once.

[CaliKid]

We're talking about multiple people rushing to make a 911 call. In other words, I don't think Kate neglected to call the police because she assumed someone else called when she noticed Madeleine was gone. Most parents would've called anyway just to make sure a call went out for assistance.

[Texana]

Exactly as Calikid said, multiple calls from different people.

[STEADFAST]

When Kate went running back to the tapas bar after discovering Madeleine was gone, why didn't she have some member of the staff there call the police? They would know the phone number and they could speak Portuguese. It doesn't make sense to go there, where there was help, and then go back to the room and THEN later figure out how to call the police or call the front desk or whatever she did.

[gord]

When Kate went running back to the tapas bar after discovering Madeleine was gone, why didn't she have some member of the staff there call the police? They would know the phone number and they could speak Portuguese. It doesn't make sense to go there, where there was help, and then go back to the room and THEN later figure out how to call the police or call the front desk or whatever she did.

I think if I found my child missing from a room - my first instinct would not be to call the Police - it would be to run around franticaly looking for her incase she had just wandered out - It would only be after a frantict search that then the enourmity of the situation would become apparent - and policve would be called - I think anyway panic would set in quickly and noone does anything logicaly once you are in a state of panic - as Kate mccaan would have been very quickly

[STEADFAST]

I think if I found my child missing from a room - my first instinct would not be to call the Police - it would be to run around franticaly looking for her incase she had just wandered out - It would only be after a frantict search that then the enourmity of the situation would become apparent - and policve would be called - I think anyway panic would set in quickly and noone does anything logicaly once you are in a state of panic - as Kate mccaan would have been very quickly

Yes, but according to her, she noticed a shutter that had been forced and that cuddle cat was moved to a high ledge. Now it's possible she contacted the front desk expecting them to take care of helping look for Madeleine, including calling the police. The resort probably would not want to call in the police unless absolutely necessary.

[KOOL LOOK]

I think if I found my child missing from a room - my first instinct would not be to call the Police - it would be to run around franticaly looking for her incase she had just wandered out - It would only be after a frantict search that then the enourmity of the situation would become apparent - and policve would be called - I think anyway panic would set in quickly and noone does anything logicaly once you are in a state of panic - as Kate mccaan would have been very quickly


I could go along with this explanation, and have pondered it already, but Kate's own words were, "They've taken her, They've taken her." as she ran into the bar. Which I find to be a normal response to run to her husband, but there's another but to this also.

If she thought Maddy had been abducted, which is another one of her first responses, especially to the police, then why did she leave her two other children alone in the same room she herself claims Maddy was taken from, abducted from, door locked, then unlocked, window being altered?

Kate can't have it all the five ways. :snooty: Something should be aligning up with the other. Words to match actions in some form. Also the warnings she was given concerning leaving the children alone. Then her apparent rebellion at overlooking the hotels suggestions and authority in using day care as she herself observed her other partier buds chose to do. Not to mention the prior burglaries, her admittedly own confession of Maddy's descriptive behaviors, being in a foreign place.

[Rino]

I think if I found my child missing from a room - my first instinct would not be to call the Police - it would be to run around franticaly looking for her incase she had just wandered out - It would only be after a frantict search that then the enourmity of the situation would become apparent - and policve would be called - I think anyway panic would set in quickly and noone does anything logicaly once you are in a state of panic - as Kate mccaan would have been very quickly


I would also wake up her sister and brother wondering if I missed her hugging one of them or with "Where's Maddie?!?!"

It also doesn't take logic to protect the twins, where was her maternal instinct at this point? Some day in the furture it is very likely those two will wonder the same thing, sad.

[gord]

I could go along with this explanation, and have pondered it already, but Kate's own words were, "They've taken her, They've taken her." as she ran into the bar. Which I find to be a normal response to run to her husband, but there's another but to this also.

If she thought Maddy had been abducted, which is another one of her first responses, especially to the police, then why did she leave her two other children alone in the same room she herself claims Maddy was taken from, abducted from, door locked, then unlocked, window being altered?

Kate can't have it all the five ways. :snooty: Something should be aligning up with the other. Words to match actions in some form. Also the warnings she was given concerning leaving the children alone. Then her apparent rebellion at overlooking the hotels suggestions and authority in using day care as she herself observed her other partier buds chose to do. Not to mention the prior burglaries, her admittedly own confession of Maddy's descriptive behaviors, being in a foreign place.

it hasnt been established 100% what she said - there is conflicting reports all the time on her exact words . Ok ignore the point that she left the kids alone - I see it has she went up at 10 to check and found Maddy not in bed - your first instinct would be to look around - was she in the toilet - in another room - Kate would have picked up on things - like where the cat was etc - as the sense of panic hits ( which would happen very quickly ) once she realises Maddy is not there then shee looses it and runs to her husband in a state of shock .

You see I am trying to see it from the angle that Maddy was abducted and the parents are guilty of nothing more than leaving theri kids alone

[gord]

I would also wake up her sister and brother wondering if I missed her hugging one of them or with "Where's Maddie?!?!"

It also doesn't take logic to protect the twins, where was her maternal instinct at this point? Some day in the furture it is very likely those two will wonder the same thing, sad.

maybe thats what you think you would do sitting in a composed way in front of a screen

the sense of shock and pure panic that must have hit her once she realised her daughter was missing can affect everyone in a different way -

I ams ure she is absolutely riddled with guilt now - I would be , but again looking at objectively from a view point of the abduction thery I dont find her immediate reaction strange atall - she was probably ion a state of pure terror/panic at that point

[Rino]

maybe thats what you think you would do sitting in a composed way in front of a screen

the sense of shock and pure panic that must have hit her once she realised her daughter was missing can affect everyone in a different way - No, it is exactly what I have done when finding one of my children is not where I left him or her.


I ams ure she is absolutely riddled with guilt now - I would be , but again looking at objectively from a view point of the abduction thery I dont find her immediate reaction strange atall - she was probably ion a state of pure terror/panic at that point
I'm not so sure she is.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770 (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=482379&in_page_id=1770)

"I know that what happened is not due to the fact of us leaving the children asleep. I know it happened under other circumstances."

Asked about whether the decision to leave them meant she and her husband were responsible for their daughter's disappearance, she said: "It cannot be considered a crime. "Someone committed one, but not us."

[Jeana (DP)]

I would also wake up her sister and brother wondering if I missed her hugging one of them or with "Where's Maddie?!?!"

It also doesn't take logic to protect the twins, where was her maternal instinct at this point? Some day in the furture it is very likely those two will wonder the same thing, sad.

Where was her maternal instinct when she decided to leave these children alone night after night so she could party with her friends?

[Jeana (DP)]

I ams ure she is absolutely riddled with guilt now - I would be , but again looking at objectively from a view point of the abduction thery I dont find her immediate reaction strange atall - she was probably ion a state of pure terror/panic at that point

I don't believe I agree with you about this. I find her immediate reaction completely strange. I also don't believe that we've EVER seen her in a state of panic. Either that, or she's got unnatural control over her emotions.

[Rino]

Where was her maternal instinct when she decided to leave these children alone night after night so she could party with her friends?
She has maternal instinct deficit disorder :doh:

[Jeana (DP)]

She has maternal instinct deficit disorder :doh:

I think so!

[KOOL LOOK]

I don't believe I agree with you about this. I find her immediate reaction completely strange. I also don't believe that we've EVER seen her in a state of panic. Either that, or she's got unnatural control over her emotions.


I personally think she's got some kick pie hole drugs! I've suspected this the entire time, just never mentioned it. I wish she would share what works so darn well, I just can't imagine a parent keeping it together continually. Even if it is behind the scenes, someone would be showing signs and symptons of having been around me in the privacy of our closed doors, the many doors she's had the priviledge of. Scratch the last part of this sentence, it's deflamatory. I don't mind her being well off.

[AfterMidnight]

it hasnt been established 100% what she said - there is conflicting reports all the time on her exact words . Ok ignore the point that she left the kids alone - I see it has she went up at 10 to check and found Maddy not in bed - your first instinct would be to look around - was she in the toilet - in another room - Kate would have picked up on things - like where the cat was etc - as the sense of panic hits ( which would happen very quickly ) once she realises Maddy is not there then shee looses it and runs to her husband in a state of shock .

You see I am trying to see it from the angle that Maddy was abducted and the parents are guilty of nothing more than leaving theri kids alone

Good post. I think you hit on some very valid points about looking FIRST and calling later. I probably would do the same thing, and I believe most parents would look for the child, and inform their husband BEFORE calling the police. That just seems a reasonable thing to do.

[SleuthMom]

I remember reading in this forum that the local police was called immediately and came quickly, it was a whole issue of these people speaking Portuguese so one of the staff members of the resort helped translating...then the "bigger" police (whatever is the name again) was called around 40 minutes after the first one came. Not sure of the accuracy of this but I read it here in WS.

[Texana]

She has maternal instinct deficit disorder :doh:

Sure looks that way, doesn't it?

[philamena]

We're talking about multiple people rushing to make a 911 call. In other words, I don't think Kate neglected to call the police because she assumed someone else called when she noticed Madeleine was gone. Most parents would've called anyway just to make sure a call went out for assistance.

gotcha!

[Salem]

You know everyone - I bet if we ask that question just a couple more times: "why would Kate AGAIN leave 2 unprotected children in a hotel room AFTER she discovered one of her children MISSING?" Mr. Mitchell will come up with an answer for us. Maybe we should start a thread with this title and see just how long it takes to get a response in the Sun, DaiyMail and/or the Mirror......

What do ya think?

Salem

[Texana]

You know everyone - I bet if we ask that question just a couple more times: "why would Kate AGAIN leave 2 unprotected children in a hotel room AFTER she discovered one of her children MISSING?" Mr. Mitchell will come up with an answer for us. Maybe we should start a thread with this title and see just how long it takes to get a response in the Sun, DaiyMail and/or the Mirror......

What do ya think?

Salem

I think it's worth a shot! We could start a betting pool on how quickly we get a response.

After all, Clarence was on the job for less than a week when we heard the words "they've taken her" recanted. Two days for Clarence to get all the friends lined up with the same story, another day or two to get it out to the news, and voila! She never said THAT.

[Just Jules]

You know everyone - I bet if we ask that question just a couple more times: "why would Kate AGAIN leave 2 unprotected children in a hotel room AFTER she discovered one of her children MISSING?" Mr. Mitchell will come up with an answer for us. Maybe we should start a thread with this title and see just how long it takes to get a response in the Sun, DaiyMail and/or the Mirror......

Thefact of leaving the twins and running back to the Tapas Bar has bothered me the most

What do ya think?

Salem

This fact over everything else has bothered me from the very beginning. If you found one child out of 3 missing, why on earth would you leave the other 2 and run 40/50/60 or 100 yards away to alert your Hubby?

It doesn't now and never did make any sense to me.

[IrishMist]

This fact over everything else has bothered me from the very beginning. If you found one child out of 3 missing, why on earth would you leave the other 2 and run 40/50/60 or 100 yards away to alert your Hubby?

It doesn't now and never did make any sense to me.

Panic?

[philamena]

I'm not saying that that's what I'd do but what if Kate looked at the bed, saw the twins and realized Maddie was missing? Is it far fetched to think that maybe she'd be full of fear and exit the door screaming whatever she screamed? There is a chance Kate was in shock.

[IrishMist]

I'm not saying that that's what I'd do but what if Kate looked at the bed, saw the twins and realized Maddie was missing? Is it far fetched to think that maybe she'd be full of fear and exit the door screaming whatever she screamed? There is a chance Kate was in shock.

Well, there is one report claiming she screamed "they've taken her", but there are several other reports saying she screamed "Madeleine is gone."

I imagine panic, fear and shock ALL played a part in her reaction.

[philamena]

Well, there is one report claiming she screamed "they've taken her", but there are several other reports saying she screamed "Madeleine is gone."

I imagine panic, fear and shock ALL played a part in her reaction.

I agree with that also IrishMist.

[CaliKid]

Well, there is one report claiming she screamed "they've taken her", but there are several other reports saying she screamed "Madeleine is gone."

I imagine panic, fear and shock ALL played a part in her reaction.

For the past 4½ months, the statement, "They've taken her" has been written up in numerous newspaper accounts of Madeleine's disappearance and repeated across the internet.

Doesn't it bother you that it took from early May to mid-September for the McCanns to retract it?

It is spin, no way about it.

[IrishMist]

For the past 4½ months, the statement, "They've taken her" has been written up in numerous newspaper accounts of Madeleine's disappearance and repeated across the internet.

Doesn't it bother you that it took from early May to mid-September for the McCanns to retract it?

It is spin, no way about it.

I don't think it was the McCann's themselves that retracted it as much as it's further reporting. I'll have to look through my links.

[CaliKid]

But four months? The McCanns knew what was being written about them the entire time they were in Portugal because they would frequently freak out over the UK newspaper accounts. They had to know that Kate was reported to have said, "They've taken her", but they didn't take time to set the record straight? Even though it cast the parents in a bad light and made their account of a kidnapping look suspect.

[IrishMist]

But four months? The McCanns knew what was being written about them the entire time they were in Portugal because they would frequently freak out over the UK newspaper accounts. They had to know that Kate was reported to have said, "They've taken her", but they didn't take time to set the record straight? Even though it cast the parents in a bad light and made their account of a kidnapping look suspect.

I can't find anything that supports your theory or mine. What I've been reading appears to be further reporting, and I haven't seen anything that shows how long the accusation has been going around.

It seems there hasn't been a lot of detail until lately, and that has been slim pickings.

[Barnaby]

For the past 4½ months, the statement, "They've taken her" has been written up in numerous newspaper accounts of Madeleine's disappearance and repeated across the internet.

Doesn't it bother you that it took from early May to mid-September for the McCanns to retract it?

It is spin, no way about it.
Only being retracted now that Clarence is on the job!

[IrishMist]

I still don't see where the McCann's have retracted this. :confused:

[colomom]

I still don't see where the McCann's have retracted this. :confused:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=482870&in_page_id=1770&ICO=NEWS&ICL=TOPART

"The turnaround of the commonly reported assumption about what Mrs McCann said on finding Madeleine gone was part of what seemed to be a concerted effort by friends to get their "official version" into the public domain."

[IrishMist]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=482870&in_page_id=1770&ICO=NEWS&ICL=TOPART

"The turnaround of the commonly reported assumption about what Mrs McCann said on finding Madeleine gone was part of what seemed to be a concerted effort by friends to get their "official version" into the public domain."

That link answers both questions. Where the accusation came from, and why the McCann's have taken so long to respond. And, actually, it's not them that have responded, it is a witness.

From the above link:

"They've taken her" was the phrase police appear to have leaked to Portuguese newspapers to justify their claims that the McCanns used the kidnap scenario to shield them from suspicion.

It was one of the most damaging slurs of the last 141 days – and one that the 39-year-old GP has been unable to challenge under the silence demanded by Portugal's Secrecy of Justice laws.

And

But last night an eyewitness to events of May 3 was able to rubbish the claims.

[Barnaby]

That link answers both questions. Where the accusation came from, and why the McCann's have taken so long to respond. And, actually, it's not them that have responded, it is a witness.

From the above link:

"They've taken her" was the phrase police appear to have leaked to Portuguese newspapers to justify their claims that the McCanns used the kidnap scenario to shield them from suspicion.

It was one of the most damaging slurs of the last 141 days – and one that the 39-year-old GP has been unable to challenge under the silence demanded by Portugal's Secrecy of Justice laws.

And

But last night an eyewitness to events of May 3 was able to rubbish the claims.

Why did the eyewitness take so long to refute these claims? & i believe that it was actually Gerry McCanns sister who released what Kate said not the Portugese police!

[colomom]

That link answers both questions. Where the accusation came from, and why the McCann's have taken so long to respond. And, actually, it's not them that have responded, it is a witness.

From the above link:

"They've taken her" was the phrase police appear to have leaked to Portuguese newspapers to justify their claims that the McCanns used the kidnap scenario to shield them from suspicion.

It was one of the most damaging slurs of the last 141 days – and one that the 39-year-old GP has been unable to challenge under the silence demanded by Portugal's Secrecy of Justice laws.

And

But last night an eyewitness to events of May 3 was able to rubbish the claims.

I see. And in this case an "unnamed witness" is perfectly acceptable when disputing the original report by Trish Cameron of what Kate said but on the other thread a "source" is not acceptable for what Gerry said about the "abductor" being in the apartment....is that right?

[IrishMist]

I see. And in this case an "unnamed witness" is perfectly acceptable when disputing the original report by Trish Cameron of what Kate said but on the other thread a "source" is not acceptable for what Gerry said about the "abductor" being in the apartment....is that right?

The claim made was that the McCann's retracted the statement, my point was that no, they didn't.

Your link showed that the police leaked this statement. I think they leaked lies in order to make the McCann's crack.

Your link also showed why the McCann's didn't respond to this unfair accusation. They aren't allowed to!

[colomom]

The claim made was that the McCann's retracted the statement, my point was that no, they didn't.

Your link showed that the police leaked this statement. I think they leaked lies in order to make the McCann's crack.

Your link also showed why the McCann's didn't respond to this unfair accusation. They aren't allowed to!

I am sorry, I honestly am trying very hard to keep up....I am jumping from thread to thread and having a very difficult time keeping track of it all. Seriously, it is getting very hard on my brain....

Please just ignore me...I am going away now.....

[IrishMist]

I am sorry, I honestly am trying very hard to keep up....I am jumping from thread to thread and having a very difficult time keeping track of it all. Seriously, it is getting very hard on my brain....

Please just ignore me...I am going away now.....

LOL!! It does start bruising the brain when you're tracking a bunch of threads, doesn't it? :)

[blaize]

Thought this was pertinent to the search issue.

[Source (http://timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2517988.ece)]

A private security firm has been secretly investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann for four months because her parents feared that Portuguese police were failing properly to search for their daughter.

Control Risks Group (CRG) is believed to have been checking reported sightings of Madeleine from around the world and building up profiles of likely abductors.

Kate and Gerry McCann turned to the company, which employs former members of the intelligence services and special forces, after becoming concerned that officers in the Algarve assumed their daughter was dead.

More at the link above.

[Shazza]

Thought this was pertinent to the search issue.

[Source (http://timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2517988.ece)]

A private security firm has been secretly investigating the disappearance of Madeleine McCann for four months because her parents feared that Portuguese police were failing properly to search for their daughter.

Control Risks Group (CRG) is believed to have been checking reported sightings of Madeleine from around the world and building up profiles of likely abductors.

Kate and Gerry McCann turned to the company, which employs former members of the intelligence services and special forces, after becoming concerned that officers in the Algarve assumed their daughter was dead.

More at the link above.
It still took Gerry 3 weeks after Madelaines disappearance to get this security firm to investigate because of the McCanns distrust with the P LE, why are we hearing about it now, apparently it is against Portugese law to hire private investigators, why is it allowed now. This to me is another statement to make the McCanns look good, if true, well that is really great but if it is a publicity stunt to take the heat of them, btw that is the way I am leaning, then I am absolutely disgusted.

[blaize]

It still took Gerry 3 weeks after Madelaines disappearance to get this security firm to investigate because of the McCanns distrust with the P LE, why are we hearing about it now, apparently it is against Portugese law to hire private investigators, why is it allowed now. This to me is another statement to make the McCanns look good, if true, well that is really great but if it is a publicity stunt to take the heat of them, btw that is the way I am leaning, then I am absolutely disgusted.

Hey Shazza,

As far as I understand it's still not allowed in Portugal, but the PI's seem to be investigating outside of Portugese jurisdiction. The quote below from the same source article also touches on why they hired the PI's three weeks after Madeleine's disappearance.

Control Risks Group (CRG) is believed to have been checking reported sightings of Madeleine from around the world and building up profiles of likely abductors.

Kate and Gerry McCann turned to the company, which employs former members of the intelligence services and special forces, after becoming concerned that officers in the Algarve assumed their daughter was dead.

[Shazza]

Hey Shazza,

As far as I understand it's still not allowed in Portugal, but the PI's seem to be investigating outside of Portugese jurisdiction. The quote below from the same source article also touches on why they hired the PI's three weeks after Madeleine's disappearance.
The P LE assumed their daughter was dead because of the cadaver dogs and DNA found, which I still dont think we have been told all they have found out, as at the moment the case is in the hands of prosecutors.

[blaize]

The P LE assumed their daughter was dead because of the cadaver dogs and DNA found, which I still dont think we have been told all they have found out, as at the moment the case is in the hands of prosecutors.

That's exactly what was leaked but now it's looking like the Forensic Science Service (FSS) in Birmingham have chastised the Portugeuse LE for widely misusing their findings and the FSS had criticised detectives for overplaying the results and leaking information to the Portuguese media.

[Source (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=483483&in_page_id=1770)]

British scientists say Portuguese police 'twisted' McCann evidence
Last updated at 00:27am on 24th September 2007

British scientists have sent Portuguese police an email complaining that their laboratory findings have been "wildly misused".

The Forensic Science Service in Birmingham, who carried out tests on the McCanns' holiday apartment and hire car, criticised detectives for overplaying evidence suggesting Madeleine's DNA had been found in the Renault Scenic which the couple hired 24 days after their daughter disappeared.

They were particularly upset at the way Portuguese police interpreted "inconclusive" forensic evidence and decided the little girl's body could have been transported in the car's boot.

Traces of Madeleine's blood, hair and bodily fluids were reportedly found in the car, but the McCanns have said there is nothing that does not have an innocent explanation.

Yesterday a police source in the Algarve admitted that the DNA traces were insufficient to prove a crime.

'We cannot state with certainty she was there,' said the source.

[Shazza]

That's exactly what was leaked but now it's looking like the Forensic Science Service (FSS) in Birmingham have chastised the Portugeuse LE for widely misusing their findings and the FSS had criticised detectives for overplaying the results and leaking information to the Portuguese media.

[Source (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=483483&in_page_id=1770)]

British scientists say Portuguese police 'twisted' McCann evidence
Last updated at 00:27am on 24th September 2007

British scientists have sent Portuguese police an email complaining that their laboratory findings have been "wildly misused".

The Forensic Science Service in Birmingham, who carried out tests on the McCanns' holiday apartment and hire car, criticised detectives for overplaying evidence suggesting Madeleine's DNA had been found in the Renault Scenic which the couple hired 24 days after their daughter disappeared.

They were particularly upset at the way Portuguese police interpreted "inconclusive" forensic evidence and decided the little girl's body could have been transported in the car's boot.

Traces of Madeleine's blood, hair and bodily fluids were reportedly found in the car, but the McCanns have said there is nothing that does not have an innocent explanation.

Yesterday a police source in the Algarve admitted that the DNA traces were insufficient to prove a crime.

'We cannot state with certainty she was there,' said the source.

I do not doubt what you are saying, and I also think there were leaks made in this investigation, and the media dramatised a lot of their information to sell papers, we will just have to see how this all pans out and hope that justice wins in the end, and Madelaine is found or can be laid to rest and the perpetrators dealt with accordingly.

[blaize]

I do not doubt what you are saying, and I also think there were leaks made in this investigation, and the media dramatised a lot of their information to sell papers, we will just have to see how this all pans out and hope that justice wins in the end, and Madelaine is found or can be laid to rest and the perpetrators dealt with accordingly.

From your lips to God's ear Shazza.

[Shazza]

From your lips to God's ear Shazza.

Thanks blaize, you just made me cry, not for me, but for Madelaine. I believe she is in gods hands.

[blaize]

Thanks blaize, you just made me cry, not for me, but for Madelaine. I believe she is in gods hands.

Then for your kind heart Shazza.

God our Father,
your Son Jesus Christ as a child
was lost in the chaos of a great city
and was restored to the love of his family;
watch over Madeleine , now missing, for whom we pray
and protect her with your love.
Be near to those who are anxious for her;
let your presence change their sorrow into comfort,
their anxiety into trust,
their despair into faith,
that they may know your loving purposes.
And this we ask
in the name of Jesus our Lord,
who loves and lives
and cares for all your children. Amen.

(Taken from Magee Brian, ed. The Veritas Book of Blessing Prayers. Dublin: Veritas, 1989, p. 140)

No disrespect intended to anyone by posting this so hope it doesn't offend.

[Shazza]

Then for your kind heart Shazza.

God our Father,
your Son Jesus Christ as a child
was lost in the chaos of a great city
and was restored to the love of his family;
watch over Madeleine , now missing, for whom we pray
and protect her with your love.
Be near to those who are anxious for her;
let your presence change their sorrow into comfort,
their anxiety into trust,
their despair into faith,
that they may know your loving purposes.
And this we ask
in the name of Jesus our Lord,
who loves and lives
and cares for all your children. Amen.

(Taken from Magee Brian, ed. The Veritas Book of Blessing Prayers. Dublin: Veritas, 1989, p. 140)

No disrespect intended to anyone by posting this so hope it doesn't offend.
I dont think it would offend, it is a lovely prayer for Madelaine,:angel: thankyou blaize.

[CaliKid]

The man, Eef Hoos, who owns the animal incinerator and was questioned about Madeleine, has disappeared.

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/20075

8 paragraphs from the bottom

He was due to attend police headquarters in Portimao yesterday to face further questions but failed to show up.

[L L & S]

The man, Eef Hoos, who owns the animal incinerator and was questioned about Madeleine, has disappeared.

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/20075

8 paragraphs from the bottom

He was due to attend police headquarters in Portimao yesterday to face further questions but failed to show up. Was it posted somewhere in the forum today that one of the priests is gone too? I'll see if I can find it. It didn't sound sinister until I read this.

Thank you for the link CaliKid.

[april4sky]

Damned if they do!!!
Anger of Potuguese authorities on the hiring of private investigators.
Beats me why!!! I know it's against their laws but if as stated the investigaters are not on the ground in Portugal.........Mmmmmm
Posters here have said many times the McCanns should have hired private investigaters. Now we know the Portuguese system makes that impossible.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/25/nmaddy125.xml


Kate and Gerry McCann provoked the fury of the Portuguese authorities after it was revealed they had hired private investigators (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/24/nmaddy124.xml) to help find their daughter Madeleine.
A source close to the couple's legal team insisted they were only working in an advisory role and were not on the ground in Portugal.
But the company – which employs ex-SAS and military personnel – is thought to be focusing on Spain and Morocco, where three sightings of a little blonde girl have now been reported.
In Portugal, figures from both the police and judicial arenas vented their anger about the move.

[Brefie]

Damned if they do!!!
Anger of Potuguese authorities on the hiring of private investigators.
Beats me why!!! I know it's against their laws but if as stated the investigaters are not on the ground in Portugal.........Mmmmmm
Posters here have said many times the McCanns should have hired private investigaters. Now we know the Portuguese system makes that impossible.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/25/nmaddy125.xml


Kate and Gerry McCann provoked the fury of the Portuguese authorities after it was revealed they had hired private investigators (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/24/nmaddy124.xml) to help find their daughter Madeleine.
A source close to the couple's legal team insisted they were only working in an advisory role and were not on the ground in Portugal.
But the company – which employs ex-SAS and military personnel – is thought to be focusing on Spain and Morocco, where three sightings of a little blonde girl have now been reported.
In Portugal, figures from both the police and judicial arenas vented their anger about the move.

I cannot believe that the McCann's have to defend wanting to look for their missing daughter.