How Many Trips to Fatima?

[ThoughtFox]

I hope it's ok to start a new thread about this, because I haven't done this in a long time. :) So just let me know if I need to delete this, or the Mods can.

I'm thinking this news may be something that keeps coming up in the future discussions.

I just saw this new story today, and I don't know the significance, but it could be a big deal. I believe the new theory is that the McCann's visited Fatima in a widely publicized religious visit, but then later returned to the shrine with the Maddie's body, which would fit with why Maddie's fluids and hair were in the car so long after she disappeared. Soon after the trip to Fatima, they left on their tour of Europe:

Today's news:

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/19301

Devout Kate and Gerry McCann made a pilgrimage there three weeks after their daughter vanished from their holiday apartment in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz.

Just four days later they rented a car which police believe the couple used to return to the shrine and dispose of Madeleine’s body.

. . . In just five weeks the McCanns clocked up 1,709 miles in the car and police want to question them about every journey they made. The couple claim they ran up the mileage making frequent return trips from the resort to Faro Airport 55 miles away.

*snip*

Officers want to examine a pasture called the Cova da Iria near the village of Aljustrel a mile from Fatima – where the Virgin Mary is said to have appeared to three children in 1917.
Police believe Madeleine died as a result of an accident and her body was hidden before being moved in the McCanns’ hire car.
They are convinced Gerry and Kate McCann’s devotion to their faith played a key role in how they supposedly disposed of the body.

. . . more at link

The mention of the specific place makes me wonder if they have a witness somewhere in Fatima who saw the parents near there some days after their public visit?


From back in May:

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/newsfeed/?name=Madeleine+McCann
The trip to the shrine marks the first time Mrs McCann has left the Algarve village of Praia da Luz since Madeleine was abducted from the family's holiday apartment, other than visits to the police station in nearby Portimao.
According to friends, she had hoped to make the four-hour trip to the shrine before Madeleine was abducted, and had been even keener to do so since.

Other links that mention the trip.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20765844/site/newsweek/

Timeline
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=4dc979ef-6109-4636-a14f-264289bba497

What do others here remember about their trip and their reactions to Fatime? Are there any interviews around that time in which they talked about it? I intend to do a CNN search for news from their trip, and what they were doing before and after.

[Texana]

Interesting theory Thought Fox!

With that mileage, that would be 15 trips to the airport in five weeks, or about 3 trips a week. And that would assume that for each trip, the McCanns returned to the resort and Portugal before heading to another destination.

I think it's entirely possible, and they would not have been followed on that trip to Fatima, and would know it.

[KOOL LOOK]

I think your on to something. I remember watching a tv program about the three kids that claim they saw a prophetic image. To this day it's believed.

What is Fatima? Sorry, little embarrassed to ask, but reading the post I have a conclusion, but wanted to make sure i understood.

This needs to be investigated fully. The timeline is incredible versus their trips, the car rental, maddy's scent.

I'm interested in this theory, keep more information coming. Maddy has been placed somehwere.

[englishleigh]

I think your on to something. I remember watching a tv program about the three kids that claim they saw a prophetic image. To this day it's believed.

What is Fatima? Sorry, little embarrassed to ask, but reading the post I have a conclusion, but wanted to make sure i understood.

This needs to be investigated fully. The timeline is incredible versus their trips, the car rental, maddy's scent.

I'm interested in this theory, keep more information coming. Maddy has been placed somehwere.

I agree, this is very interesting.

Fatima, Portugal is the name of the village where these three children lived and were tending sheep in a field in 1917 when the Blessed Mother appeared to them. She came back on, I believe, the 13th of every month for several months, and prophesied some things that have come true. I wish I could remember what the things were. You can Google "Fatima" to read the story. I need to refresh my memory.

I wouldn't be surprised if they did leave Maddie's body here. :eek:

[englishleigh]

http://www.ewtn.com/fatima/

[KOOL LOOK]

I agree, this is very interesting.

Fatima, Portugal is the name of the village where these three children lived and were tending sheep in a field in 1917 when the Blessed Mother appeared to them. She came back on, I believe, the 13th of every month for several months, and prophesied some things that have come true. I wish I could remember what the things were. You can Google "Fatima" to read the story. I need to refresh my memory.

I wouldn't be surprised if they did leave Maddie's body here. :eek:

Good morning darling. Thanks for the info. It was the show I saw years ago. I found it very interesting, and believable to the childrens best abilities.

It also would make sense the parents would desire to bury her somewhere that is considered Holy and sacred.

[colomom]

I am also intrigued by this possibility. Thank you ThoughtFox for posting it.

I have gathered some more links for you all to see. To give you a better understanding of Fatima in general.


From: http://www.sacredsites.com/europe/portugal/fatima.htm

"Women are, if fact, the predominant pilgrims to the shrine of Fatima and they come, not to worship Christ but rather to pray and express gratitude to Mary as 'Our Lady of Health' (Nossa Senhora da Sau'de). At Fatima, Mary is not generally approached as the idealized chaste Virgin but rather as a down to earth mother figure that understands, deeply loves, and offers assistance with the concerns of women and children."

http://www.world-mysteries.com/mpl_12.htm

http://www.fatima.org/

[CaliKid]

It's a possibility, but I also have to caution that Gerry McCann made a lot of trips to the airport. He was always picking up and dropping off friends there.

[Pinkhammer]

Fascinating. Maybe they thought the Blessed Mother would resurrect their murdered child.

[Dr. Creepin]

Fifteen trips to the airport? They are really obliging these McCann's, except when it comes to answering police questions!

[ThoughtFox]

It's a possibility, but I also have to caution that Gerry McCann made a lot of trips to the airport. He was always picking up and dropping off friends there.

But 1,709 miles in the rental car? That's a heck of alot of trips to the airport, wasn't it? I guess it's possible with 55 miles there and back again. It seems to me you'd have to drive continuously for days to rack up that many miles. (But then I'm not good with math, so forgive the lack of calculations.)

About Fatima: It reminds me of Madonna naming her daughter "Lourdes" after another holy place with healing powers. I'm not Catholic, but I realize just how powerfully spiritual these special places are, so when I saw the news articles about them going there and perhaps going "back," it just peaked my interest. And since it's connected to very same car, then it's quite interesting.

We can use this thread to post things if Fatima comes up again. :)

[Salem]

I want them to go search Fatima. I want them to go search the church in town. I so want them to find Maddie.

They should be getting ready to start the day in Portugal right about now. The judge is supposed to make his decisions today about further searches and interviews, etc.

May he please, please, please say yes to the searches and may Eddie find Teresa Parker and return to Portugal to help find little Maddie.

Salem

[april4sky]

Could explain the milage in the hire car!!

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1284729,00.html

The vehicle had also been used by a number of people, including several family members, before it was examined.
Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt said up to 30 people are believed to have had access to the Renault in the 10 weeks after the car was hired.

[ThoughtFox]

Maybe the McCanns used the pretense of taking another family member to visit Fatima as a reason for going back there one night? If these people were driving around so much in the rental car, then how could the police know all the places they went?

I don't think that the spin the McCanns are putting on the car adds anything to the truth. They don't explain the amount of hair in the trunk, or the smell of a cadaver. Urine is probably not the only bodily fluid the police may have, yet the McCanns blame that on the Twins diapers. :waitasec: I'm not buying this.

[Dr. Creepin]

The significance of the Fatima Shrine

http://news.independent.co.uk/europe/article2578441.ece

[philamena]

Interesting article Dr. Creepin. Wasn't the Fatima Shrine mentioned in The da Vinci Codes?

[AfterMidnight]

Maybe the McCanns used the pretense of taking another family member to visit Fatima as a reason for going back there one night? If these people were driving around so much in the rental car, then how could the police know all the places they went?

I don't think that the spin the McCanns are putting on the car adds anything to the truth. They don't explain the amount of hair in the trunk, or the smell of a cadaver. Urine is probably not the only bodily fluid the police may have, yet the McCanns blame that on the Twins diapers. :waitasec: I'm not buying this.

How much hair was found in the trunk? I've done so much reading I don't remember.

[april4sky]

How much hair was found in the trunk? I've done so much reading I don't remember.

Interesting interview with Dr Baden on Greta yesterday.

He said they would have known within ten minutes of testing "Madeleine's" hair found in the car whether it was from a live Madeleine or a dead Madeleine.
Do the Portuguese police already know this?
They have said they don't know whether Madeleine is dead.

I know some things are still being tested but If Dr Baden is right the hair test wouldn't have taken this long.

[narlacat]

Interesting interview with Dr Baden on Greta yesterday.

He said they would have known within ten minutes of testing "Madeleine's" hair found in the car whether it was from a live Madeleine or a dead Madeleine.
Do the Portuguese police already know this?
They have said they don't know whether Madeleine is dead.

I know some things are still being tested but If Dr Baden is right the hair test wouldn't have taken this long.

April, is the hair in the car, more specifically in the boot, a fact?

Baden knows his stuff- he worked on the Ramsey case.

[april4sky]

April, is the hair in the car, more specifically in the boot, a fact?

Baden knows his stuff- he worked on the Ramsey case.
Hi narlacat.

I think it was through leaks from the Portuguese police that we first heard about hair being found in the car.

It would be surprising if none of Madeleine's hair was found amonst the families possessions IMO. But as for it being a "fact". I don't think any of us know for sure.
The police won't confirm evidence due to their secrecy laws. But they're not above leaking "rumors" when it suits them.

It was a really good interview with Dr Baden and I agree, he knows his stuff.

I checked on Greta's blog but yesterday's interview wasn't there. I hope she puts it on.
The whole interview was very interesting, he made a lot of comparisons between the Portuguese police investigation of Madeleine's case with the way the Aruban police investigated the Natalee Holloway case.

[narlacat]

Hi narlacat.

I think it was through leaks from the Portuguese police that we first heard about hair being found in the car.

It would be surprising if none of Madeleine's hair was found amonst the families possessions IMO. But as for it being a "fact". I don't think any of us know for sure.
The police won't confirm evidence due to their secrecy laws. But they're not above leaking "rumors" when it suits them.

It was a really good interview with Dr Baden and I agree, he knows his stuff.

I checked on Greta's blog but yesterday's interview wasn't there. I hope she puts it on.
The whole interview was very interesting, he made a lot of comparisons between the Portuguese police investigation of Madeleine's case with the way the Aruban police investigated the Natalee Holloway case.

Thanks for the reply April.

Maybe post it when she does...if she does, TIA!

(where would you post that, in the links thread?)

[april4sky]

Thanks for the reply April.

Maybe post it when she does...if she does, TIA!

(where would you post that, in the links thread?)

Your welcome.

I don't know if Greta's programme is repeated. If so you may be able to catch it. I saw it on Fox in Australia this morning.

And yes, I will post it if I see it on the blog. On both the links thread and the Fence sitters thread.

Oops narlacat. Ignore the bit about a repeat of Greta ...Just noticed you are in Australia too!!!

[narlacat]

Your welcome.

I don't know if Greta's programme is repeated. If so you may be able to catch it. I saw it on Fox in Australia this morning.

And yes, I will post it if I see it on the blog. On both the links thread and the Fence sitters thread.

Oops narlacat. Ignore the bit about a repeat of Greta ...Just noticed you are in Australia too!!!

lol- yeah but I don't have pay tv :doh:

Will take a look if you post it, thanks April.

[Barnaby]

Would love to see that programme if you can post the link april

[Morag]

...(snip)
Baden knows his stuff- he worked on the Ramsey case.

Yes, and we all know how well that turned out!

[colomom]

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=17517

Interesting....:waitasec:

[Texana]

It's plausible. "Deeply religious means they wouldn't bury their child themselves" doesn't convince me they couldn't find a way to satisfy their religious convictions and keep their family/livelihoods intact at the same time.

[KR2tonenow]

I hope it's ok to start a new thread about this, because I haven't done this in a long time. :) So just let me know if I need to delete this, or the Mods can.

I'm thinking this news may be something that keeps coming up in the future discussions.

I just saw this new story today, and I don't know the significance, but it could be a big deal. I believe the new theory is that the McCann's visited Fatima in a widely publicized religious visit, but then later returned to the shrine with the Maddie's body, which would fit with why Maddie's fluids and hair were in the car so long after she disappeared. Soon after the trip to Fatima, they left on their tour of Europe:

Today's news:

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/19301



The mention of the specific place makes me wonder if they have a witness somewhere in Fatima who saw the parents near there some days after their public visit?


From back in May:

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/newsfeed/?name=Madeleine+McCann


Other links that mention the trip.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20765844/site/newsweek/

Timeline
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=4dc979ef-6109-4636-a14f-264289bba497

What do others here remember about their trip and their reactions to Fatime? Are there any interviews around that time in which they talked about it? I intend to do a CNN search for news from their trip, and what they were doing before and after.

I love this theory and seems the most plausible yet!! Good for you and great work..

This also adds to the belief that the McCanns are religious fanatics whose narcissism would lead them into thinking that Maddy could be resurrected.

Good points!

[Salem]

Have the PLE searched yet? I find nothing in the news that says they have. Nor does it appear that PLE has searched the local church yet. What are they waiting for?

Salem

[Barnaby]

^^^^

Exactly what is keeping them?

Could there have been a coffin in the church that they slipped Madeleine inside? Have the police checked if someone died during that time? Corpses usually lie in catholic churches overnight before burial.

[Pinkhammer]

Barnaby, they could not do that without the complicity of a priest, I think.

Although they did have a key to the church property.

Why was that priest transferred after he became chummy with the McCanns?

[Barnaby]

Pinkhammer, Yes as they had the keys of the church, they were free to go there when ever they pleased to pray. If there was a coffin lying in the church all they would have had to do was to unscrew the bolts & place madeleine inside. The coffin is not usually opened after it goes to the church for mass the next morning before burial. Even if it was they still could have concealed a small body under the usual covering on the body.

I don't think it is known for sure where the priest is, has there been information to say that he was definitely transferred to another parish?
There have certainly been reports of parishioners saying that he was troubled. I think he knows more than he is saying or can say!

[wtsn5]

Now I am confused. Which church are we talking about because I thought this thread was about the Fatime location - I don't believe they had the keys to that location they had the keys to the church close to the resort. Or did I miss something

[Barnaby]

Sorry yes we are talking about the church in Praia da Luz sorry if wrong thread