Sorting Fact from Fiction

[STEADFAST]

This thread was suggested by a poster, and I think it's a great idea for those of us who like to see links to information, discuss the credibility of those links, figure out what information is actually known, and what information turns out to have been exagerrated, sensationalized or just plain made up in some journalist's mind.

Some examples:

To what extent, if any, did the McCann's do any physical searching for Madeleine?

What are the discrepancies between the stories given by the tapas group?

What is the forensic evidence and how valuable is it in determining information about Madeleine's disappearance.

Anyway, that kind of thing. Is it possible to require links to information, or no?

Anybody want to start?

[CaliKid]

The only searching done by the McCanns that we absolutely know of was on the night of May 3-4.

http://crimeblog.us/?p=399

They apparently searched until nearly dawn- I've seen at least one recent story where a family member claimed the police quit at 4:30 and left them to carry on alone. But I've read so many news articles over the past week I honestly can't remember where I saw it or who said it.

Criticism of the police response came early from family and friends.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070909/tuk-uk-britain-girl-chronology-fa6b408_1.html

[STEADFAST]

The only searching done by the McCanns that we absolutely know of was on the night of May 3-4.

http://crimeblog.us/?p=399

They apparently searched until nearly dawn- I've seen at least one recent story where a family member claimed the police quit at 4:30 and left them to carry on alone. I have read so many news articles over the past week I honestly can't remember where I saw it or who said it.

Criticism of the police response came early from family and friends.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070909/tuk-uk-britain-girl-chronology-fa6b408_1.html

Thanks for that link, Cali. I know I read somewhere that they often went out to informally look on their own, but I can't find the link so far, so I'll let that go for now and not violate the spirit of the thread!:innocent: But what in the world were they doing while volunteers and police were doing the official searches? I've gone way back on WS threads to try to find an article from the first couple of days that mentioned what the parents were doing.

[CaliKid]

If you can find a link to an article that claims they searched for her on their own, I'd love to read it.

[Texana]

Gerry McCann says:

GM: We can’t really comment about… it’s well-known that we were dining at the Tapas bar 50 yards away and we can’t comment too much in terms of our patterns and our routines and the fact of that’s subject to the investigation, but …
The Tapas bar was about twice that distance.

I'm not good with distances and measurements, so I don't use exact measurement units. I say "not far" or "near by," because I just don't have a good eye for that. Gerry says "50 yards" and this was repeated in various reports as "40 yards," which definitely gave a different impression than the actual photograph showed.

[Texana]

Here's the article from Kate's friends in which they say both Gerry and Kate went "into a cocoon" for the first two days:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=482027&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=picbox&ct=5

Feel free to interpret cocoon as you wish, but it does not seem to imply active searching.

[CaliKid]

Gerry McCann says:

GM: We can’t really comment about… it’s well-known that we were dining at the Tapas bar 50 yards away and we can’t comment too much in terms of our patterns and our routines and the fact of that’s subject to the investigation, but …
Gerry actually made this comment during the 100-day interview when asked if he and Kate had been dining all week and leaving the children alone. As usual, gave himself a pass from answering a tough question.

[CaliKid]

Here's the article from Kate's friends in which they say both Gerry and Kate went "into a cocoon" for the first two days:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=482027&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=picbox&ct=5

Feel free to interpret cocoon as you wish, but it does not seem to imply active searching.

For whatever it's worth, I don't know about a cocoon, but Kate and Gerry weren't as hunkered down as their friends claim. They made a lot of cellphone calls back to the UK. They were attending press conferences. And remember, one of our posters had some friends visiting Praia da Luz the same time the McCanns were there, ran into the parents and twins in a restaurant the next day and they (the McCanns) didn't say a word about Madeleine being missing.

http://www.functionpix.com/index.php/article/Police_Arrest_Portugal_Child_Abductor/1376/

[STEADFAST]

Here's the article from Kate's friends in which they say both Gerry and Kate went "into a cocoon" for the first two days:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=482027&in_page_id=1770&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=picbox&ct=5

Feel free to interpret cocoon as you wish, but it does not seem to imply active searching.

I agree. Not a great time to go into a "cocoon."

Here's a link from May 5th:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/05/nmadel05.xml&page=2



Jon Corner, a close friend of Mrs McCann and godparent of the twins, said she telephoned him in the middle of the night distraught.
He said: "She just blurted out that Madeleine had been abducted. She told me, 'They have broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl.'
"They had left the apartment locked while they were having their meal, but when they went back the last time they saw the damage.
"First they saw one of the window shutters had been forced, and then they saw the door was open and the bed was empty - and Madeleine was gone.


Didn't it turn out that the window shutter was opened from the inside and that the apartment had not been left locked?

[STEADFAST]

For whatever it's worth, I don't know about a cocoon, but Kate and Gerry weren't as hunkered down as their friends claim. They made a lot of cellphone calls back to the UK. They were attending press conferences. And remember, one of our posters had some friends visiting Praia da Luz the same time the McCanns were there, ran into the parents and twins in a restaurant the next day and they (the McCanns) didn't say a word about Madeleine being missing.

http://www.functionpix.com/index.php/article/Police_Arrest_Portugal_Child_Abductor/1376/

The cell phone calls don't seem all that significant to me if you figure they'd naturally be calling friends and relatives. As far as attending press conferences, that seems normal, too -- except of course for the strange way that Gerry worded things: "We continue to hope for the best possible outcome from this for us and for Madeleine." "We have no further information regarding the investigation but appreciate the significant effort everyone is making on our behalf."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6629471.stm

As far as the information from the poster's friend, that would be very strange, if true.

[Jeana (DP)]

I think this is a great idea for a thread and hopefully once we're sure that something we're hearing is from a reliable source, I'm not sure that anything here can be considered "fact" as of yet.

[Rino]

It is a fact that has not been disputed yet that when she claimed her daughter was taken, she left to get her husband. Did not scream out and did not wake the twins, in fact she left them.

A good scream would have alerted her companions even at 100 yards away

[Love_Mama]

It is a fact that has not been disputed yet that when she claimed her daughter was taken, she left to get her husband. Did not scream out and did not wake the twins, in fact she left them.

A good scream would have alerted her companions even at 100 yards away

Rino.....I read here all the time, seldom post.

Rino, If the above is a FACT and I certainly believe what you are saying...........I simply can not believe that mama and daddy left Maddie and the twin's behind in a room , on the ground floor of their rented condo. THIS IS A FACT. This case is nuts, this family is nuts?.......they were told that there were baby sitters but refused? THAT IS A FACT.
A baby sitter would probably would have cost less then the bottle's of wine they bought that evening. I'm pretty SURE this is a FACT. Anyone who's bought wine in this area..fill me in!

SO my thought is, they left all their children unattended FOR A REASON!
Is there anyone here at WS that think's they didn't hire a nanny or babysitter because they couldn't afford one ????????????

Somehow or other, it was planned that little Maddie would be taken and it was planned in advance. I'm patiently waiting to see which one of the parent's will breakdown.

xxxxxxxxooooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

[BethInAK]

I think this is a great idea for a thread and hopefully once we're sure that something we're hearing is from a reliable source, I'm not sure that anything here can be considered "fact" as of yet.


YES.
One of the biggest problems with the case is that I have no idea whats fantasy and whats reality.

I think that the only facts that we know for sure:

-Madeleine was last seen the day she disappeared, by someone other than the McCanns, at the kids dinner at 6:30 or so
-Madeleine and the twins were left unsupervised at about 7:30 or so
-Madeleine has disappeared.

The rest of it is all potentially false.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

YES.
One of the biggest problems with the case is that I have no idea whats fantasy and whats reality.

I think that the only facts that we know for sure:

-Madeleine was last seen the day she disappeared, by someone other than the McCanns, at the kids dinner at 6:30 or so
-Madeleine and the twins were left unsupervised at about 7:30 or so
-Madeleine has disappeared.

The rest of it is all potentially false.


Are you sure the above highlighted statement is true? Do you have a link? I really think this was a premeditated crime, and I have not seen any facts that point that Madeleine was 100% positively seen on this day alive, (as in video footage, surveillance cameras and the such). This can not include any personal cameras where dates can easily be altered.

Surely there where surveillance cameras around the day care?

[poco]

YES.
One of the biggest problems with the case is that I have no idea whats fantasy and whats reality.

I think that the only facts that we know for sure:

-Madeleine was last seen the day she disappeared, by someone other than the McCanns, at the kids dinner at 6:30 or so
-Madeleine and the twins were left unsupervised at about 7:30 or so
-Madeleine has disappeared.

The rest of it is all potentially false.

That's about it, isn't it --- ??? Other than that nothing confirmed.

[philamena]

That's about it, isn't it --- ??? Other than that nothing confirmed.
IMO, that's about it. Well, except for the fact that the McCann's were on vacation and rented a particular apartment.

[poco]

IMO, that's about it. Well, except for the fact that the McCann's were on vacation and rented a particular apartment.

and cuddle cat had a bath

[Rino]

YES.
One of the biggest problems with the case is that I have no idea whats fantasy and whats reality.

I think that the only facts that we know for sure:

-Madeleine was last seen the day she disappeared, by someone other than the McCanns, at the kids dinner at 6:30 or so
-Madeleine and the twins were left unsupervised at about 7:30 or so
-Madeleine has disappeared.

The rest of it is all potentially false.

Actually so it your first point.

There is no concrete evidence - unless I am wrong and you can show me the link - that anyone other than the McCanns saw her at 6:30

[BethInAK]

YES.
One of the biggest problems with the case is that I have no idea whats fantasy and whats reality.

I think that the only facts that we know for sure:

-Madeleine was last seen the day she disappeared, by someone other than the McCanns, at the kids dinner at 6:30 or so
-Madeleine and the twins were left unsupervised at about 7:30 or so
-Madeleine has disappeared.

The rest of it is all potentially false.

Actually so it your first point.

There is no concrete evidence - unless I am wrong and you can show me the link - that anyone other than the McCanns saw her at 6:30

Perhaps you are right.
i think we probably can "guess" that she was at the creche that day or else someone would have pointed her being missing from the creche out already.

[harleysnana]

and cuddle cat had a bath

A little off topic…. but I have been waiting for a time to comment on this!
My mom passed away and she had a little pink beanie baby bear
that I gave her when she was ill.
It was new and it sat up on the shelf for two months in her room
before she passed.
That is one of the things I wanted when she died.
It has black smeared mascara from my tears... and I even got a little
dr. pepper on it...but still...
I would never wash it.
To this day... almost a year later.. there are times when I
smell it just to try to get a hint of her scent.

[BethInAK]

A little off topic…. but I have been waiting for a time to comment on this!
My mom passed away and she had a little pink beanie baby bear
that I gave her when she was ill.
It was new and it sat up on the shelf for two months in her room
before she passed.
That is one of the things I wanted when she died.
It has black smeared mascara from my tears... and I even got a little
dr. pepper on it...but still...
I would never wash it.
To this day... almost a year later.. there are times when I
smell it just to try to get a hint of her scent.


You made me cry.
I'm so sorry for your loss.

[teacherbees]

harleysnana, I am so sorry for your loss.

[CaliKid]

A little off topic…. but I have been waiting for a time to comment on this!
My mom passed away and she had a little pink beanie baby bear
that I gave her when she was ill.
It was new and it sat up on the shelf for two months in her room
before she passed.
That is one of the things I wanted when she died.
It has black smeared mascara from my tears... and I even got a little
dr. pepper on it...but still...
I would never wash it.
To this day... almost a year later.. there are times when I
smell it just to try to get a hint of her scent.

I know exactly what you mean. For as long as I can remember, my mother always wore a certain cologne. After she died in 1992 I was cleaning out her drawers, and I found a half-full bottle. Lying next to it was a handkerchief which had a bit of her lipstick smudged on it and the scent of the cologne. I still have both, and every time I miss my mom I pour a bit of the cologne on her hankie. All I have to do is smell it to remember her, but I would never, never wash it.

[CaliKid]

A number of people were asking about whether the McCanns physically searched for Madeleine and, if so, for how long. The link below is by Paulo Reis of the Gazeta Digital, drawn from several newspapers. It has a wealth of information, set up in a question and answer format, about the first hours after she disappeared.

http://gazetadigitalpraiadaluz.blogspot.com/2007/09/some-advice-to-penny-wark-correspondent.html

This is about the actual search.

The manager of the resort, John Hill said around 60 staff and guests at the complex had searched until 4.30am while local police notified border police, Spanish police and airports.

The McCanns scoured the lanes above the resort, shouting for her in the dark.

A family friend, Jill Renwick, told GMTV that police activity ground to a halt at 3am. But Mr Hill said this was not true, and that police had been searching with dogs overnight and continued to search today. He said: ‘The police have their dogs in and have been conducting sweeps of the beach and rocky areas very close to the village. There is a criminal investigator here in charge of the situation and about 20 officers.'

Portuguese police yesterday sealed off the three-storey block and forensic specialists fingerprinted the ground floor window of the McCanns' apartment. All airports, ports and border posts have been alerted. But despite a massive search throughout the night by police, sniffer dogs and dozens of holidaymakers, there has been no sign of Madeleine.

By late afternoon the hunt for Maddy had intensified with helicopter crews, firemen and maritime search teams involved. A special criminal investigation team from the Policia Judiciria was travelling down from Lisbon. Sky News weather presenter Jo Wheeler said local police had been giving out maps and telling people where to look. She said: ‘It's very well organised.'

About calling in the police, the question was whether the local police were out of their league.

I had a different information. As the first Police officers to arrive at the crime scene were from Guarda Nacional Republicana (GNR) I called Lieutenant-Colonel Costa Cabral, head of Public Relations at Guarda Nacional Republicana headquarters, in Lisbon (phone number, email address are here). He told me that first call to GNR precinct at Lagos was received at 10.50 pm, May 3, and only after Police oficcers went there and evaluated the situation, CID in POrtimão was called.

Two GNR officers went to Ocean Club (a 10/15 minutes drive, from Lagos), evaluated the situation and than they called CID in Portimão, 25 km from Praia da Luz. They assembled a team and they were at the crime scene between 11h40, 11h50 pm, May 3.

Was vital time lost?

I think that vital time was lost between the moment Kate McCann realized her daughter was missing, around 10h00 pm, and the moment the first call was received at Police precinct, in Lagos: 50 minutes, time enough for a car to drive from Praia da Luz, following the highway A22, close to the Spanish border (a border that doesn’t exist, because since the Shengen Agreement was signed, countries that are members have no border control posts and can not put a road block in a border without asking, before, permission to do that, to the Shengen authority). Who is responsible for that, I'm not sure, yet.

[CaliKid]

Are you sure the above highlighted statement is true? Do you have a link? I really think this was a premeditated crime, and I have not seen any facts that point that Madeleine was 100% positively seen on this day alive, (as in video footage, surveillance cameras and the such). This can not include any personal cameras where dates can easily be altered.

Surely there where surveillance cameras around the day care?

I see where you're going with this. It would be very interesting to find out if:

a) The McCanns, like clockwork, dropped their 3 children off at the creche every morning, picked them up for lunch, took them back to the creche in the afternoon and picked them up at closing time EVERY DAY

but,

b) On May 3, they altered this routine.

Was Madeleine in the creche on May 3?

[harleysnana]

harleysnana, I am so sorry for your loss.
Thanks guys!
IMO I don't see how they could wash cuddle cat!::(

[docwho3]

Thanks guys!
IMO I don't see how they could wash cuddle cat!::( Someday they may wish they hadn't.

[Texana]

I see where you're going with this. It would be very interesting to find out if:

a) The McCanns, like clockwork, dropped their 3 children off at the creche every morning, picked them up for lunch, took them back to the creche in the afternoon and picked them up at closing time EVERY DAY

but,

b) On May 3, they altered this routine.

Was Madeleine in the creche on May 3?

A very interesting coincidence, if it's only that. I'm sure that was one of the 40 questions Kate refused to answer.

[SleuthMom]

Calikid:

Was Madeleine in the creche on May 3?

Apparently yes, she was:

"The last time Madeleine was seen alive was by staff at the Ocean Club creche at 6pm."


http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/0909_maddie2.shtml

"Madeleine attended a creche that afternoon at the Ocean Club resort where they were staying, and was collected at 6pm; at 8.30pm the couple joined their friends at dinner, but they have insisted the children were looked in on at approximately half-hourly intervals. At 10pm, Kate McCann discovered her daughter had gone."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/crime/article/0,,2165017,00.html

[Jeana (DP)]

A little off topic…. but I have been waiting for a time to comment on this!
My mom passed away and she had a little pink beanie baby bear
that I gave her when she was ill.
It was new and it sat up on the shelf for two months in her room
before she passed.
That is one of the things I wanted when she died.
It has black smeared mascara from my tears... and I even got a little
dr. pepper on it...but still...
I would never wash it.
To this day... almost a year later.. there are times when I
smell it just to try to get a hint of her scent.


:blowkiss: :blowkiss: {{{{{HUGS}}}}} I'm sorry about the loss of your mother.

[BethInAK]

I think that vital time was lost between the moment Kate McCann realized her daughter was missing, around 10h00 pm, and the moment the first call was received at Police precinct, in Lagos: 50 minutes, time enough for a car to drive from Praia da Luz, following the highway A22, close to the Spanish border (a border that doesn’t exist, because since the Shengen Agreement was signed, countries that are members have no border control posts and can not put a road block in a border without asking, before, permission to do that, to the Shengen authority). Who is responsible for that, I'm not sure, yet.


I cannot understand why, if Kate was "SURE" that Madeleine had been TAKEN, the police were not called much sooner.

[ceeaura]

I cannot understand why, if Kate was "SURE" that Madeleine had been TAKEN, the police were not called much sooner.

Exactly BethInAK!!That is just one of the things in this case that is bugging the heck out of me.

[Morag]

If you can find a link to an article that claims they searched for her on their own, I'd love to read it.

CaliKid, here's a link to a story that says Gerry searched alone at midnight on waste ground near the beach:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/09/17/maddy-waiters-gerry-was-perfect-dad-89520-19801178/

This story places Gerry alone at the beach at midnight. If the PJ arrived at around 1150, then Gerry was not there to meet them... Apparently Gerry was acting as though Madeleine had wandered...

More interestingly, the Tapas friends were not searching.

Last night police sources said they were "suspicious" because cardiologist Gerry was left to search the resort alone for most of the time, while his friends stayed shut away in their apartments.

"That is what made us suspicious. Why didn't they all spend the night and day searching instead of being hidden away in their rooms?" the source asked.

"Kate stayed in the apartment with the twins and a few others, watching from the balcony. It just didn't make sense to me."

I can understand why, if they believed a kidnapping had occurred, that they might not want to leave their families, but perhaps they already had their own opinions as to what had happened.

[Texana]

CaliKid, here's a link to a story that says Gerry searched alone at midnight on waste ground near the beach:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/topstories/2007/09/17/maddy-waiters-gerry-was-perfect-dad-89520-19801178/

This story places Gerry alone at the beach at midnight. If the PJ arrived at around 1150, then Gerry was not there to meet them... Apparently Gerry was acting as though Madeleine had wandered...




If the waiter's testimony is true, it contradicts the McCanns' story that they were searching until around 4 a.m. "on their own." Of course, they may very well have split up.

But I really don't understand why Gerry would be alone at midnight--that's only a couple of hours later. What kind of friend leaves another friend alone at a time like that?

Although when I read it...it also sounded like a man in terrible grief. Is he searching or mourning at the same time?

[CaliKid]

And if the waiter's story is true, it gives a very clear indication that Kate was frustrated with taking care of the children and may have resented the close relationship between Gerry and Madeleine.

[Morag]

If the waiter's testimony is true, it contradicts the McCanns' story that they were searching until around 4 a.m. "on their own." Of course, they may very well have split up.

But I really don't understand why Gerry would be alone at midnight--that's only a couple of hours later. What kind of friend leaves another friend alone at a time like that?

Although when I read it...it also sounded like a man in terrible grief. Is he searching or mourning at the same time?

My thought, Texana, is that Gerry might have left the resort before the PJ arrived so that he could go to the beach alone.

If the friends were not searching in the early hours, that might point to a rift within the group. PJ was said to be immediately skeptical about inconsistencies in stories told by the friends. Maybe some were angry at finding themselves in the situation.

And yes, I am sure he must have been in a terrible state of grief, regardless of what had occurred. One of the things that makes this case so gripping is the possibly that parents in a state of shocked grief could have also cold-bloodedly carried out whatever grim deeds were needed to conceal the death.
You have to be willing to think the unthinkable to believe that the parents did it. And some of us can, some of us can't.:(

[Rino]

I'm going to play devils advocate with this article -

One waiter says they were there over an hour. The report says last seen a 6. Arriving at 5 for over an hour puts it sometime past 6.

Waiters served them either spaghetti bolognese or fillet of fish. Then they had an ice cream. Then ,Madeleine was last seen in public outside the Ocean Club resort at 6pm after her tea in the beach restaurant. Question, is it norm for the kids to have tea after an evening meal?

Feels like stories made to be similar to eachother, creating an alabi and nice picture of the family.

[AfterMidnight]

I have some doubts about the waiters and other help in the area. Who would be in a better position, as we've read, to watch the comings and goings of the patrons? It seems there were burglaries with the possibility of a key being used.

I wonder how well, if at all, the background of any employees are checked out, even the ones from the car rental place.

There are a lot of loose ends in this case, but I feel them beginning to come together.

[Just Jules]

I'm going to play devils advocate with this article -

One waiter says they were there over an hour. The report says last seen a 6. Arriving at 5 for over an hour puts it sometime past 6.

Waiters served them either spaghetti bolognese or fillet of fish. Then they had an ice cream. Then ,Madeleine was last seen in public outside the Ocean Club resort at 6pm after her tea in the beach restaurant. Question, is it norm for the kids to have tea after an evening meal?

Feels like stories made to be similar to eachother, creating an alabi and nice picture of the family.

Rino, when they are talking about "tea" they are actually referring to "dinner"

[SleuthMom]

Rino, when they are talking about "tea" they are actually referring to "dinner"

I was just going to say that! :) A friend of mine told me about it years ago, she always used to talk about having tea at 5:00 and she was talking about dinner.

[Pinkhammer]

Rino, Clarence Mitchell, who is running the McCanns' newest campaign, brags about his Portugal connections. He has operatives hard at work in Luz. Waiters don't make much money. How hard would it be to bribe a waiter to put out favorable PR about Kate and Gerry?

[Texana]

Rino, Clarence Mitchell, who is running the McCanns' newest campaign, brags about his Portugal connections. He has operatives hard at work in Luz. Waiters don't make much money. How hard would it be to bribe a waiter to put out favorable PR about Kate and Gerry?

Good point!

[docwho3]

Here is another strange twilightzone twist to this case:
". . . The body of a missing five-year-old girl whose abduction was linked by police to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has been discovered in a forest in Switzerland. . ."

". . . It was uncovered by a passer-by between Oberbren and Niederwil on Saturday. It had apparently been dug up by wild animals. Von Aesch is thought to have shot a man who challenged him shortly after he buried the body, then turned the gun on himself. Police later discovered he had been on holiday in the Algarve when Madeleine disappeared in May. . ."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/19495/Body-of-girl-5-found
Note: I added the bolding in the quote.
***********

". . .A white van with Spanish number plates matching the description of Von Aesch's was seen parked for several days in front of the McCann's apartment. The van was not seen again after Madeleine disappeared. . ."

This about the white van is a new fact I had not heard before in the Madeleine case!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urs_Hans_Von_Aesch

Both girls were blond haired!
http://is.blick.ch/img/gen/g/P/HBgPH5PA_Pxgen_r_180xA.jpg

pic from this article:
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/artikel68560&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=5&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DUrs%2BHans%2BVon%2BAesch%26num%3D20%2 6hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.blick.ch/news/schweiz/artikel68560&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=5&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3DUrs%2BHans%2BVon%2BAesch%26num%3D20%2 6hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff)

The alleged killer of the 5 years old little blond girl looks like:
http://www.droitfondamental.eu/06-Ylena_urs_hans_von_aesch-2.png
I wonder how close is that description to the person seen in the mccann case.

Note: The above original links to the online articles (but not the comments or excerpts) were posted first by colomom and so colomom deserves the credit for the finds. Thanks.
*****************

". . .The parents of Madeleine McCann have been told that police have no immediate plans to summon them for a fresh interview.
Gerry and Kate McCann were also informed by a prosecutor in Portugal that detectives could be following "other lines of inquiry" apart from them. . ."
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pressass/20070919/tuk-mccanns-will-not-face-re-interview-6323e80_1.html
***********

Sat Sep 15/2007
". . . Police believe Von Aesch committed suicide, after shooting another man, who survived. . ."

". . .Swiss authorities have also been in touch with police investigating the case of Briton four-year-old Madeleine McCann, who disappeared in May while on holiday with her family in a Portuguese resort . . ."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070915/ts_nm/swiss_missing_dc

Since this Von Aesch man lived in spain awhile I wonder if this might be partly why the mccanns were mentioning they think Madeleine is in spain?
Also I see this bit - probably what you have already seen:

". . . Witnesses have said a man matching Von Aesch’s description had been seen watching the little girl’s home and movements for at least 10 days. . ."

"Detectives in Portugal are working on the theory Madeleine’s abductors could have been spying on the family for several days, observing their daily routine. . ."

". . . .Madeleine’s parents have admitted they left their children alone every night for a week before their daughter was snatched.

Yesterday the Daily Express told how detectives believe Madeleine’s kidnapper was working with an accomplice.
Police have been covertly tailing and videoing the suspect who is believed to match the description of a man seen carrying a child wrapped in a blanket shortly after Madeleine disappeared . . ."
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/15806/Madeleine-lookalike-snatched-by-pervert

[Rino]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just Jules
Rino, when they are talking about "tea" they are actually referring to "dinner"



Thanks. I had too much tea last night :crazy:


Rino, Clarence Mitchell, who is running the McCanns' newest campaign, brags about his Portugal connections. He has operatives hard at work in Luz. Waiters don't make much money. How hard would it be to bribe a waiter to put out favorable PR about Kate and Gerry?

Thats what I was thinking as well.

[april4sky]

Hopefully this might clear up some of the confusion we have regarding fact or fiction.
-----------------
Missing Madeleine: Special Programme

http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...285050,00.html (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,91210-1285050,00.html)

Sky News is to air a special half-hour programme on Sunday, September 30, on the search for missing Madeleine McCann.

Crime correspondent Martin Brunt will try to separate fact from fiction as he looks into the police investigation, the many theories and where the inquiry will go from here.

"We hope to unravel some of the speculation and theories behind the case during the half-hour special programme and separate fact from fiction."

A web version of the programme will be available on Sky News Online on the same day.

[poco]

SO my thought is, they left all their children unattended FOR A REASON!
Is there anyone here at WS that think's they didn't hire a nanny or babysitter because they couldn't afford one ????????????

Somehow or other, it was planned that little Maddie would be taken and it was planned in advance. I'm patiently waiting to see which one of the parent's will breakdown.

xxxxxxxxooooooo
mama
:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

HI LM - As I'm reading throught all these threads/posts, this exact thought came to my mind. :waitasec:

[docwho3]

Can anyone point me to a news article or mccann parents blog entry that says Madeleine was sleeping in the middle between the twins and if so what bed they were in?

I have seen this pic which is supposed to be showing the beds in question and it confuses me a bit because I have seen posts in some forums stating that Madeleine was "sleeping in the middle" between the twins.
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_03/mccanngraphicES2009_800x622.jpg

Using a search engine I looked for the phrase "Madeleine mccann" and "sleeping in the middle" but found no news article that said Madeleine was sleeping in themiddle between the twins. Maybe the search engine was having an off day or maybe it was not phrased exactly that way in any news articles.

[STEADFAST]

Can anyone point me to a news article or mccann parents blog entry that says Madeleine was sleeping in the middle between the twins and if so what bed they were in?

I have seen this pic which is supposed to be showing the beds in question and it confuses me a bit because I have seen posts in some forums stating that Madeleine was "sleeping in the middle" between the twins.
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_03/mccanngraphicES2009_800x622.jpg

Using a search engine I looked for the phrase "Madeleine mccann" and "sleeping in the middle" but found no news article that said Madeleine was sleeping in themiddle between the twins. Maybe the search engine was having an off day or maybe it was not phrased exactly that way in any news articles.

Here's a Daily Telegraph story from May 5:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/05/nmadel05.xml

The other children, two-year-old twins Amelie and Shaun, were still asleep in their cots. Mrs McCann broke down screaming. An immediate search was launched, but the abductor is believed to have escaped through the complex’s main entrance.

And here's a Daily Telegraph story from May 6:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/06/nmaddy106.xml

She vanished between 9pm and 10pm on Thursday night from her room at a holiday complex in Praia da Luz, a fishing village on the Algarve, as she slept between her twin brother and sister, aged two.

At least that narrows the time down on where to search for the original report that Madeleine was sleeping between the twins.

[docwho3]

Thank you very much for the info. I think the first of the two news articles is more accurate according to the image we now have that details the positions of the beds (if it is correct.) The first article mentions:
". . . The other children, two-year-old twins Amelie and Shaun, were still asleep in their cots. . .", and that squares with the image that shows separate beds for each of the children with Madeleine's being nearest the door.
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09_03/mccanngraphicES2009_800x622.jpg

Being nearest the door, as much as any other factor, might explain why Madeleine was grabbed (if she was in fact grabbed.)

Here's a Daily Telegraph story from May 5:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/05/nmadel05.xml

The other children, two-year-old twins Amelie and Shaun, were still asleep in their cots. Mrs McCann broke down screaming. An immediate search was launched, but the abductor is believed to have escaped through the complex’s main entrance.

And here's a Daily Telegraph story from May 6:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/05/06/nmaddy106.xml

She vanished between 9pm and 10pm on Thursday night from her room at a holiday complex in Praia da Luz, a fishing village on the Algarve, as she slept between her twin brother and sister, aged two.

At least that narrows the time down on where to search for the original report that Madeleine was sleeping between the twins.