was madeleine EVER there?

[amelia finds]

Hello everyone - this is my first post :) so please be gentle with me :o

This has been playing on my mind ever since the Madeleine story broke here in the UK.

During a general chat along the lines of where is that poor little girl.....it must be terrible for the parents....Blah...Blah.... my usually very trusting sister threw this in "do we actualy really know if Madeleine was ever in Portugal? - was she ever there atall?"

At the time I dismissed it as the ramblings of a sleep deprived mother....but It keeps creeping back :(

Apart from the one photo that was alleged to have been taken the day before the abduction......I am not aware of anyone talking of having any contact with this child in Portugal

Does anyone have any thoughts?

It's great to see past the spin and speculation of the media ~~~I like it here! ;)

[RoughlyCollie]

Madeleine was at the creche every day, so I'm sure she was there. There were plenty of people to attest to her presence, aside from her family and their friends.

Hello everyone - this is my first post :) so please be gentle with me :o

This has been playing on my mind ever since the Madeleine story broke here in the UK.

During a general chat along the lines of where is that poor little girl.....it must be terrible for the parents....Blah...Blah.... my usually very trusting sister threw this in "do we actualy really know if Madeleine was ever in Portugal? - was she ever there atall?"

At the time I dismissed it as the ramblings of a sleep deprived mother....but It keeps creeping back :(

Apart from the one photo that was alleged to have been taken the day before the abduction......I am not aware of anyone talking of having any contact with this child in Portugal

Does anyone have any thoughts?

It's great to see past the spin and speculation of the media ~~~I like it here! ;)

[ceeaura]

Hello everyone - this is my first post :) so please be gentle with me :o

This has been playing on my mind ever since the Madeleine story broke here in the UK.

During a general chat along the lines of where is that poor little girl.....it must be terrible for the parents....Blah...Blah.... my usually very trusting sister threw this in "do we actualy really know if Madeleine was ever in Portugal? - was she ever there atall?"

At the time I dismissed it as the ramblings of a sleep deprived mother....but It keeps creeping back :(

Apart from the one photo that was alleged to have been taken the day before the abduction......I am not aware of anyone talking of having any contact with this child in Portugal

Does anyone have any thoughts?

It's great to see past the spin and speculation of the media ~~~I like it here! ;)

As RoughlyCollie replied there is reports that she was in the creche every day.
This case has so many spins coming from both sides that I catch myself even wondering if Madeleine ever existed :silenced: I know she does and she is missing but the way the parents are at the moment working on their image I get that thought sometimes.Crazy I know.How many times have we heard from Kate and Jerry that the alligations aginst them is pulling the focus off of Madeleine.Well I have to disagree.They have to be looked at as suspects.What they are doing having their wedding photos published ect is taking the focus off of Madeleine and putting it all on Kate and Gerry the "Me,Me,Me" parents and nothing about that sweet little girl other than she is missing. grrrr Sorry that I had a mini rant :p


amelia finds welcome to the forums :D

[ThoughtFox]

Oh yes, she was there, and I think she's still there.

[englishleigh]

As RoughlyCollie replied there is reports that she was in the creche every day.
This case has so many spins coming from both sides that I catch myself even wondering if Madeleine ever existed :silenced: I know she does and she is missing but the way the parents are at the moment working on their image I get that thought sometimes.Crazy I know.How many times have we heard from Kate and Jerry that the alligations aginst them is pulling the focus off of Madeleine.Well I have to disagree.They have to be looked at as suspects.What they are doing having their wedding photos published ect is taking the focus off of Madeleine and putting it all on Kate and Gerry the "Me,Me,Me" parents and nothing about that sweet little girl other than she is missing. grrrr Sorry that I had a mini rant :p


amelia finds welcome to the forums :D



Good post!! And welcome, Amelia. :)

[docwho3]

Hello everyone - this is my first post :) so please be gentle with me :o

This has been playing on my mind ever since the Madeleine story broke here in the UK.

During a general chat along the lines of where is that poor little girl.....it must be terrible for the parents....Blah...Blah.... my usually very trusting sister threw this in "do we actualy really know if Madeleine was ever in Portugal? - was she ever there atall?"

At the time I dismissed it as the ramblings of a sleep deprived mother....but It keeps creeping back :(

Apart from the one photo that was alleged to have been taken the day before the abduction......I am not aware of anyone talking of having any contact with this child in Portugal

Does anyone have any thoughts?

It's great to see past the spin and speculation of the media ~~~I like it here! ;)

Welcome to the forum.

Don't feel bad. I also had that question early on. Until someone posted picture link showing her there in Portugal I even wondered if she had perhaps died at home in England and been disposed of already and then the parents had another child of one of their covacationers to pose as Madeleine until just after checkin at the mccanns rented room, not being seen thereafter (as she would have returned to her own parents right away) and then they just keep pretending they are leaving her behind in the room every night so she is not seen by anyone and then on the night of the dinner the mccanns trot out the whole kidnapped daughter play. It was more like a mystery book plot than something likely to turn up in real life but the thought did cross my mind.

If her being in Portugal could not be substantiated I am sure we would have heard of it by now. It would have made Portugal L.E. job much easier to be able to say that she was never there and thus could not have been a crime victim in their country and thus they could have shipped the whole problem back to UK L.E. to deal with.

[angarella]

Oh yes, she was there, and I think she's still there.

I agree....

[SewingDeb]

Welcome to WS, Amelia.

[poco]

Oh yes, she was there, and I think she's still there.

You know, were it my child that were missing I would be in a looney bin. My mind would have gone bonkers by now. Assuming I didn't harm my child and she was abducted I wouldn't have a moment when I wasn't thinking where she might be, who she is with, is she okay, is she alive or dead, etc. I couldn't go on..........

[CaliKid]

Oh yes, she was there, and I think she's still there.

Yes, unfortunately, I think what's left of Madeleine is still in Portugal. And welcome, Amelia.

[Texana]

Oh yes, she was there, and I think she's still there.

sadly, must agree. A child with that noticeable and unique eye characteristic, would surely have been recovered by now for the sake of that massive reward.

heartbreaking to consider, but reasonable.

[IrishMist]

sadly, must agree. A child with that noticeable and unique eye characteristic, would surely have been recovered by now for the sake of that massive reward.

heartbreaking to consider, but reasonable.

Sadly, I tend to agree. :(

The child's picture has been spread all over the world. I find it hard to believe that someone hasn't seen her. I'm afraid the poor dear is gone.

[Shazza]

Sadly, I tend to agree. :(

The child's picture has been spread all over the world. I find it hard to believe that someone hasn't seen her. I'm afraid the poor dear is gone.
It doesnt look promising for Madelaine to be found alive.

[nicola]

It doesnt look promising for Madelaine to be found alive.

Although it isnt likley she is alive there is still hope that she is. For all we know she couldhave been locked up by abductors so that no one would know where she is. If this is the case then the media will have alot to answer for if the abductors feel that the police are getting too close and kill her. After all, all the abductors would have to do is read the paper to find out what is happening.

[Texana]

Although it isnt likley she is alive there is still hope that she is. For all we know she couldhave been locked up by abductors so that no one would know where she is. If this is the case then the media will have alot to answer for if the abductors feel that the police are getting too close and kill her. After all, all the abductors would have to do is read the paper to find out what is happening.

It would be much more tempting to claim that huge reward than to kill her.

I'm sure everyone here hopes that there is still a chance she is alive.

[Zelda]

Oh yes, she was there, and I think she's still there.
Do you believe her body is near the hotel? I find that hard to believe--they did have sniffer dogs tracing her scent who came up with a dead end.

And I don't know how her body could be hidden somewhere in the vicinity.
Just the thought of digging a grave means they had to leave evidence of the dig. And even after catching her scent the dogs couldn't determine where Maddy is.

[Texana]

Do you believe her body is near the hotel? I find that hard to believe--they did have sniffer dogs tracing her scent who came up with a dead end.

And I don't know how her body could be hidden somewhere in the vicinity.
Just the thought of digging a grave means they had to leave evidence of the dig. And even after catching her scent the dogs couldn't determine where Maddy is.

It's possible that she was put somewhere that already had freshly turned earth, such as the excavations near the church.

The dead end, however, from the first dog search (if I'm not mistaken) was at the ocean.

[nicola]

It would be much more tempting to claim that huge reward than to kill her.

I'm sure everyone here hopes that there is still a chance she is alive.

I see what your saying but anyone who claims that reward will be interrogated by police as to how they have information on her. It wouldnt be long before the fonger gets pointed towards them.

[Texana]

I see what your saying but anyone who claims that reward will be interrogated by police as to how they have information on her. It wouldnt be long before the fonger gets pointed towards them.

Not necessarily, if they were the tail end or a minor accessory, they could take a small jail term, turn in the main players, and get the reward if Madeleine were still alive (I think the reward specified "safe" return."

Sorry, the lack of any kind of claim on the reward is not a good sign for Madeleine's survival. People will risk prison time for a huge reward like that.

[ThoughtFox]

Do you believe her body is near the hotel? I find that hard to believe--they did have sniffer dogs tracing her scent who came up with a dead end.

And I don't know how her body could be hidden somewhere in the vicinity.
Just the thought of digging a grave means they had to leave evidence of the dig. And even after catching her scent the dogs couldn't determine where Maddy is.
I believe she is either in Portugal or Spain, within the distance that the rental car drove on one the McCann's excursions. Fatima? Huelva? Another village along the way?

The main road near the resort was being dug up and paved over, with holes everywhere. They didn't have to dig a grave. This article has a good map showing which streets were paved over since then, and how close they were to the family's hotel:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007420470,00.html

[gord]

I believe she is either in Portugal or Spain, within the distance that the rental car drove on one the McCann's excursions. Fatima? Huelva? Another village along the way?

The main road near the resort was being dug up and paved over, with holes everywhere. They didn't have to dig a grave. This article has a good map showing which streets were paved over since then, and how close they were to the family's hotel:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007420470,00.html

from the moment this story broke the Mccaans have been under the glare of the worlds media , TV , paparazzi , police , etc etc

Every where they go some journalist usualy follows them with the hope of a good story / picture .

I just cant buy the fact under this sort of scrutiny they could just dispose of a body 25 days later . - at this stage the police probably has their suspicions anyway and would be keeping an eye on things.

anything I suppose is possible in this world - but I just cant buy that theory

[april4sky]

from the moment this story broke the Mccaans have been under the glare of the worlds media , TV , paparazzi , police , etc etc

Every where they go some journalist usualy follows them with the hope of a good story / picture .

I just cant buy the fact under this sort of scrutiny they could just dispose of a body 25 days later . - at this stage the police probably has their suspicions anyway and would be keeping an eye on things.

anything I suppose is possible in this world - but I just cant buy that theory

I can't buy it either gord. The whole thing sounds too ludicrous.

How could thay have managed it with the worlds press and apparently the police watching their every move.
They were also in an unfamiliar country where they wouldn't have known the area. :confused:

And most ludicrous of all...Can you imagine the state a body would be in after 25 days. :eek:
You wouldn't need to rely on dogs to pick up that scent.

[ThoughtFox]

from the moment this story broke the Mccaans have been under the glare of the worlds media , TV , paparazzi , police , etc etc

Every where they go some journalist usualy follows them with the hope of a good story / picture .

I just cant buy the fact under this sort of scrutiny they could just dispose of a body 25 days later . - at this stage the police probably has their suspicions anyway and would be keeping an eye on things.

anything I suppose is possible in this world - but I just cant buy that theory
Three little letters - DNA. Also hair and body fluids.

The parents said they made numerous trips to the airport to pick up family members. That is how they explain the DNA, so in saying that, they are admitting that there was something in the trunk.

And most ludicrous of all...Can you imagine the state a body would be in after 25 days.
You wouldn't need to rely on dogs to pick up that scent.
Well according to the McCanns there were some nasty odors already emanating from their vehicle. :(

They said the cadaver dogs were confused by the "rotting meat in the trash bags" and "dirty diapers from the twins." Imagine that, if you will! :hand:

If you wanted to mask the odor of a dead body, those would do it. But they would smell just as bad, so the McCann's must have been able to deal with the smell, right?

No one put that story about the trash and the dirty nappies out in the public except the McCanns - they volunteered it to the press.

[SleuthMom]

Do we have any good reports that say who rented the car before the Mc Canns did? IF it was one of the Tapas friends then probably that person could have carry the body right away after death in that same car. No need to wait for 25 days.

[gord]

Three little letters - DNA. Also hair and body fluids.

The parents said they made numerous trips to the airport to pick up family members. That is how they explain the DNA, so in saying that, they are admitting that there was something in the trunk.


Well according to the McCanns there were some nasty odors already emanating from their vehicle. :(

They said the cadaver dogs were confused by the "rotting meat in the trash bags" and "dirty diapers from the twins." Imagine that, if you will! :hand:

If you wanted to mask the odor of a dead body, those would do it. But they would smell just as bad, so the McCann's must have been able to deal with the smell, right?

No one put that story about the trash and the dirty nappies out in the public except the McCanns - they volunteered it to the press.


The DNA thing has been done to death

1stly - It has not yet been established 100% that it is even Maddy DNA - the twins will have very simillar DNA

2ndly If it can be islotated to be 100% DNA then we are talking about minute amounts - whic could have come from a miriad of cross contamination opportunities

I go back to a point I made a while ago - if a body had placed in that trunk especially a dead body there would be a mass of DNA - it would have jumped out the trunk itself - it would not be minute trace elements that it seems the police have . IF the police had that sort of evidence then the Mccaans would be in a portoguese cell waiting for a trial date

to say that they are somehow admiting that someone was in the trunk is just not true . Numerous DNA experts have said how a hair from Maddy could have got onto anything - the twins toys etc etc .Sweat , saliva from weeks before can still be found -

[april4sky]

The DNA thing has been done to death

1stly - It has not yet been established 100% that it is even Maddy DNA - the twins will have very simillar DNA

2ndly If it can be islotated to be 100% DNA then we are talking about minute amounts - whic could have come from a miriad of cross contamination opportunities

I go back to a point I made a while ago - if a body had placed in that trunk especially a dead body there would be a mass of DNA - it would have jumped out the trunk itself - it would not be minute trace elements that it seems the police have . IF the police had that sort of evidence then the Mccaans would be in a portoguese cell waiting for a trial date

to say that they are somehow admiting that someone was in the trunk is just not true . Numerous DNA experts have said how a hair from Maddy could have got onto anything - the twins toys etc etc .Sweat , saliva from weeks before can still be found -

Yes the portuguese police have now backed away from the DNA and hair claims being as important as they had first claimed.

The DNA is no longer said to be 100% Madeleines.

And as for the "Hair"

In an interview with Dr Baden on Greta.

He said they would have known within ten minutes of testing "Madeleine's" hair found in the car whether it was from a live Madeleine or a dead Madeleine.

Do the Portuguese police already know this?

They have said they don't have any evidence that Madeleine is dead.

Some things are still being tested but If Dr Baden is right the hair test wouldn't have taken this long.

[IrishMist]

from the moment this story broke the Mccaans have been under the glare of the worlds media , TV , paparazzi , police , etc etc

Every where they go some journalist usualy follows them with the hope of a good story / picture .

I just cant buy the fact under this sort of scrutiny they could just dispose of a body 25 days later . - at this stage the police probably has their suspicions anyway and would be keeping an eye on things.

anything I suppose is possible in this world - but I just cant buy that theory

I'm with you on this one, Gord.

[april4sky]

It just seems to get ever more ridiculous.

The latest in a long list of unfounded claims made in the Portuguese press in an attempt to incriminate the McCanns.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=484238&in_page_id=1811&ct=5


The Diario de Noticias claimed police believed that the couple disposed of Madeleine's body together on August 3, three months to the day after she "disappeared".

Diario de Noticias also stated that English Catholics have a tradition of visiting the tomb of a loved one three months after their death. :waitasec:

Several British photographers accompanied them on the day trip, in which the McCanns handed out Madeleine posters and wrist bands at a bus and petrol station.

The police case against the McCanns has been sinking ever since detectives failed to extract confessions from the couple during two days of questioning.

Yesterday, it emerged police have now scaled back plans to dig in Praia da Luz, including the area around the church where the McCanns prayed, saying they will only excavate if they have "credible" leads.

[philamena]

from the moment this story broke the Mccaans have been under the glare of the worlds media , TV , paparazzi , police , etc etc

Every where they go some journalist usualy follows them with the hope of a good story / picture .

I just cant buy the fact under this sort of scrutiny they could just dispose of a body 25 days later . - at this stage the police probably has their suspicions anyway and would be keeping an eye on things.

anything I suppose is possible in this world - but I just cant buy that theory

I agree too.
Seriously where would they hide the body for 25 days?
Unless it was put into a freezer, the body would start decomposing and it would----well it would have an odor.

[IrishMist]

I agree too.
Seriously where would they hide the body for 25 days?
Unless it was put into a freezer, the body would start decomposing and it would----well it would have an odor.

And where would they find such a freezer in a vacation apartment? :confused:

[Tuba]

I've read that one of the diners/doctors actually changed his clothes while on a check of the children & returned to the table in fresh clothes. Supposedly a question of his daughter vomiting. This report, like most, was unreliably sourced but has anyone else come across it? If so, do you believe the doctor's explanation?

[CaliKid]

In July when the British detectives and dogs arrived in Portugal, there was a question about someone changing clothes and the purchase and use of bleach in the apartment. We never found out if it was true.

[Barnaby]

I've read that one of the diners/doctors actually changed his clothes while on a check of the children & returned to the table in fresh clothes. Supposedly a question of his daughter vomiting. This report, like most, was unreliably sourced but has anyone else come across it? If so, do you believe the doctor's explanation?
No I dont believe anything that those doctors said!
What human being leaves a child who is vomiting in an apartment alone & goes to dinner UGH"
Caring medical profession my a**!

[SleuthMom]

No I dont believe anything that those doctors said!
What human being leaves a child who is vomiting in an apartment alone & goes to dinner UGH"
Caring medical profession my a**!

:clap:

[hcc2007]

And where would they find such a freezer in a vacation apartment? :confused:

Didn't they move out of the apartment, like, the next day? And weren't they settled in a villa (full-sized house) by the end of the following week? (or something on that order). A full-sized house in a hot climate probably would have a freezer.

Not that the frozen-body scenario is very plausible to me. I mean, these people may be careless, neglectful, and even self-centered, but that's a long way from being ghouls.

[CaliKid]

It wasn't the end of the week. They were given another apartment to stay in until the PJ were done with the original one. Then for some inexplicable reason they chose to move back in to the first one (although why any parent would want to live in the rooms their daughter was "abducted from" is beyond me!). It wasn't until early-to-mid summer that they moved to the villa when the apartment owner put it up for sale.

[hcc2007]

It wasn't the end of the week. They were given another apartment to stay in until the PJ were done with the original one. Then for some inexplicable reason they chose to move back in to the first one (although why any parent would want to live in the rooms their daughter was "abducted from" is beyond me!). It wasn't until early-to-mid summer that they moved to the villa when the apartment owner put it up for sale.

Thanks for correcting me on the apartment-> villa move.

As for moving back into the apartment, I think that wanting to be 'near' a lost love is very natural. It doesn't speaking, one way or another, to how she was lost (abducted vs accidentally killed).

Kate is a strange one, and I'm flabbergasted at some of the things she has said (if indeed she has said them). But the showing of emotion in public?

Actually I'd go easy on her there. We Americans sometimes underestimate the british "stiff upper lip" when it comes to suffering in public. Some people just can't do it, and sometimes the worse the suffering, the less emotion shown. Just look at children who lose a parent (I was one, at age 11), or have experienced a big trauma. Emotionally dead is how they seem. And it's true, they are. The pain is so bad, you just don't let yourself feel it. Sometimes it's only years later that you finally cry.

[gord]

It wasn't the end of the week. They were given another apartment to stay in until the PJ were done with the original one. Then for some inexplicable reason they chose to move back in to the first one (although why any parent would want to live in the rooms their daughter was "abducted from" is beyond me!). It wasn't until early-to-mid summer that they moved to the villa when the apartment owner put it up for sale.


are you sure that they moved back into the actual apartment ? I heard that it was let to another holiday family by Warners ( very strange ) - it wasnt until the british police got more involved that they then made it a crime scene again

[IrishMist]

Thanks for correcting me on the apartment-> villa move.

As for moving back into the apartment, I think that wanting to be 'near' a lost love is very natural. It doesn't speaking, one way or another, to how she was lost (abducted vs accidentally killed).

Kate is a strange one, and I'm flabbergasted at some of the things she has said (if indeed she has said them). But the showing of emotion in public?

Actually I'd go easy on her there. We Americans sometimes underestimate the british "stiff upper lip" when it comes to suffering in public. Some people just can't do it, and sometimes the worse the suffering, the less emotion shown. Just look at children who lose a parent (I was one, at age 11), or have experienced a big trauma. Emotionally dead is how they seem. And it's true, they are. The pain is so bad, you just don't let yourself feel it. Sometimes it's only years later that you finally cry.

I can so totally relate to this paragraph. May be part of the reason why I'm so hesitant to bash the McCann's for what I perceive to be coping.

[Barnaby]

are you sure that they moved back into the actual apartment ? I heard that it was let to another holiday family by Warners ( very strange ) - it wasnt until the british police got more involved that they then made it a crime scene again
Yes I actually heard that also I dont think they moved to the same apartment again.

[CaliKid]

Sorry, maybe I'm wrong. I could've sworn we discussed why they would be allowed back in the same apartment afterwards over the summer, but...

I did find this- Maddie flat sold on the cheap

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2005320001-2007280253,00.html
Maddie’s parents Gerry, 39, and Kate, 38 — who had been renting the apartment for their holiday — moved out the day after she was taken from her bed as they dined nearby.

Maybe I got confused with this, from Gerry's blog:

Day 52 - 06/24/2007 (Sunday)
We attended the local church service this morning as usual. After mass we bumped into an old colleague of my brothers who aslo happens to be from Liverpool and had a good chat with her.

There are very little media left in Praia da Luz although there was still one cameraman and photgrapher outside the church. Our requsets to respect our privacy have been folowed, with one or two minor exceptions during the last 52 days. Most of the campaigning will be done behind closed doors from now on and it is essential that Amelie and Sean are allowed to grow up without continually being photographed.

We picked the twins up early from the kids club and had a really nice afternoon with them, playing with some new toys and then down at the pool.
If Madeleine is not found in the next couple of weks we need to move out of the appartment we have been staying in as the family is coming out for a holiday. I have to say the owners have been extremely understanding, as they came to Praia da Luz for a holiday and relocated to another apartment to save us moving again. This degree of flexibility does not exist in the resort in high season. We have managed to look at a few properties to rent in the last couple of days and I think we have found somewhere suitable to live until we return back to the UK with Madeleine.

[Tuba]

Wouldn't you like to view the bed from which Madeleine was "taken"? Tanner said bundleman carried a blanket. To me that implies the bedding was disturbed because I doubt an abductor would have brought his own (v. suspicious) blanket. When I mentally look at Madeleine's bed, I see a bedspread that is unmussed, in place. Consistently, I also see a pen light over the pillow and it is turned on. I've thought a lot about that scene. Did someone shine a light on the child to make sure of her identity? Did someone examine her eyes with that light to check the pupils for concussion or vital signs? The four square bedspread reminds me of the Cuddle Cat "placed on a high shelf". Such tidiness!

[CaliKid]

Just curious, but how do you "see" these things.

[Tuba]

In trying to figure what happened in the case, I picture or visualise PDL and The Ocean Club apartments, inside and out. I'm sure we all do if we spend time puzzling over this mystery. But sometimes an eidetic image presents itself to me. These cannot be forced or strained after. Admittedly, the image doesn't provide much help but I think, for my thought processes, it is probably key--important, that is. I am also quite sure that my psychological protections prevent me seeing the real horrors of May 3. I couldn't take it. The difference in the image I have of the bedroom and my picturing the resort and the restaurant and the building is startling.

[Tuba]

Over at NewsNow, the news just in that Kate McCann knew that someone had lifted Madeleine from her bed because it was unmussed & tidy in a way a child would not have left it, getting up. I did leave a comment and included the pen light feature of my vision. It may be meaningful to someone, as it is to me.

[Texana]

All I can say is, it's just about impossible to lift a sleeping child from a bed without disturbing the bed covers.

I have done this so many times with both my daughters, especially in recent years when the younger one can't sleep and she's fallen asleep in my bed. We don't mess up the covers in a huge way, but you cannot lift a child and not disturb the covers in some way.

Go borrow some kid and try it.

Seriously, this is just ridiculous. And to shine a light in her eyes? You've been stalking the child for days/weeks/months and you have to shine a light in her eyes to make sure it's her?

And the light is left on the pillow case, conveniently absent fingerprints or any DNA traces whatsoever?

Why didn't Kate mention the penlight immediately, that there was a strange flashlight left on her child's bed? Wouldn't that be more significant than that "wretched toy" (thanks to whoever named it that) left on a shelf?

Did the kidnapper wait until she was well sedated before shining the light, thus increasing the chances of being seen or caught in the room by the regular checks, which were somewhere, if the accounts are correct, between 20 and 30 minutes apart? Administering a sedative to the wrong child--seems like a waste of time, doesn't it?

I'd say "post a link" for that penlight but I think if I see those words one more time I'll fall out of my chair laughing.

[CaliKid]

Penlight on pillow = more spin.

[Texana]

Thanks, Cali, now I get it.

[daffodil]

Penlight on pillow = more spin.

I was under the impression that this was Tubas vision so how can it be "spin"???

[hcc2007]

I was under the impression that this was Tubas vision so how can it be "spin"???

Me too. I don't think the pen light has been reported in any article.

As for the tidy covers, it's another oh-so-strange statement from the McCanns. The image of her body impression left on the bed? Lordy that reminds me of the movie Psycho! Remember the impression of 'Ma Bates' in the bed upstairs? Creepy creepy creepy.

I halfway suspect the McCanns aren't really saying these things at all. Rather, well-meaning friends and relatives are spouting off. Like the granny who said "She'd have to be drugged or she'd have screamed like crazy!" I got a kick out of that one.

BTW that does cast light on our discussions about whether children stay asleep when picked up. Some do, maybe, but Granny here -- having observed Madeleine in action, no doubt -- doesn't think Maddy's one of them.

Plus my experience of sleeping children is that they thrash around and mess up the covers without being picked up. UNLESS, OF COURSE ...

they are drugged.

I think Kate (or whoever made that statement about the body impression) just gave us another reason to believe Maddy was drugged.

[Bob&Bob]

Why would she want us to think she was drugged?

[CaliKid]

I was under the impression that this was Tubas vision so how can it be "spin"???

Sorry, I misunderstood, my bad.

[hcc2007]

Why would she want us to think she was drugged?

S/he gave us another reason to believe the child was drugged UNINTENTIONALLY. That is, by saying a sleeping 4-year-old would leave a perfect impression in a bed like Norman Bates' taxidermized mother.

[hcc2007]

Just to be clear ...

She UNINTENTIONALLLY gave us another reason to believe ...

[Dr. Creepin]

This is a cover story to explain why Kate automatically assumed the child was adbucted and didn't just wander off. They are covering their ass, as usual.
:(

[Texana]

How many more reasons will Kate come up with, months later, that bolster the "abducted and I knew it immediately" account?

[CaliKid]

Kate McCann will say anything she can think of, no matter how ridiculous it sounds, to get people to believe she had NOTHING to do with Madeleine's disappearance. She is the queen of lack of accountability.