Trip to Huelva

[colomom]

It is being reported on Paulo Reis' blog today:

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/09/police-is-checking-kate-and-gerry-trips.html

and this is being discussed on various forums.

Some things to consider, this trip to Spain was very strange remember? They arrived only to find the town all locked up because of a holiday. This trip was delayed just a bit because Gerry had a stomach "bug". This trip was taken just days before the famous british sniffer dogs came to town. This trip was probably taken in the Renault Scenic.

IF, as some have thought, Madeleine was killed and hastily buried close by the resort on the night of May 3rd and after hearing that the sniffer dogs were coming, someone panicked and realized that she had been buried with "something" that could be traced back to "someone". So maybe that someone might have thought it a good idea to remove this traceable evidence and maybe put it in the back of a car and drive it far away to bury it somewhere. That way if a body was found it would be easier to say someone else had left her there. And what if, when this person went to retrieve the "evidence" they had to actual handle the body (3 months after death) to remove the item and maybe even pulled some hair loose in doing so. It would make sense that someone might have been really sickened by that whole episode, wouldn't it?

And also look at this picture:

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/?storyID=8133&p=10

Remember the Cadaver Jeans?

Thoughts please....and be nice, I have had a bad day.....

[SewingDeb]

Interesting blog and thoughts, colomom. I hope your day gets better as it goes on.

[teacherbees]

Inasmuch as everything is supposition at this point, your thoughts could make a lot of sense. I believe it could well have happened as you write.

What I pray is that someone will find Maddie's body, wherever it is.

[Rino]

Thoughts please....and be nice, I have had a bad day.....
:blowkiss:

At this point, it seems like a definate avenue to search.

[IrishMist]

I'm sorry you're having a bad day, I HATE when that happens :(
Here's to the rest of it getting better! :)

Anyway, I think they were being watched pretty closely (too closely) at that point. I don't know if by the PJ, but the reporters were definitely on the the case.

[colomom]

I'm sorry you're having a bad day, I HATE when that happens :(
Here's to the rest of it getting better! :)

Anyway, I think they were being watched pretty closely (too closely) at that point. I don't know if by the PJ, but the reporters were definitely on the the case.

What if their "jog" took them out to an area that motor vehicles could not follow? Reporters are not known to jog.... What if they had a backpack on?

:waitasec: maybe....

Thanks for the "rest of it getting better"...

[IrishMist]

What if their "jog" took them out to an area that motor vehicles could not follow? Reporters are not known to jog.... What if they had a backpack on?

:waitasec: maybe....

Thanks for the "rest of it getting better"...

But to dig up the remains, load her in a car, take her out of the car and bury her? It just doesn't sound like they could get away with it at that point, IMO.

[colomom]

But to dig up the remains, load her in a car, take her out of the car and bury her? It just doesn't sound like they could get away with it at that point, IMO.

Where did you read "dig up her remains"???? That is exactly what infuriates me to no end....

I was talking about removing evidence...clothes, a duffel bag...etc.

I am trying to be nice.....:furious: :furious:

i should have said "dig up her remains...and move her....I just wanted to make it clear that I never meant move her...

[IrishMist]

Where did you read "dig up her remains"???? That is exactly what infuriates me to no end....

I was talking about removing evidence...clothes, a duffel bag...etc.

I am trying to be nice.....:furious: :furious:

Wow! I can see the niceness mixed in with the flames there! Boy Howdy, I misread the post is all. :truce:

I think this is a good time for me to take a break and go cook my part of dinner.

[colomom]

Wow! I can see the niceness mixed in with the flames there! Boy Howdy, I misread the post is all. :truce:

I think this is a good time for me to take a break and go cook my part of dinner.

BIG HUG Irish Mist...seriously...http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/bighug.gif

I warned you that I was having a bad day....I am touchy as heck...

But, I love you guys....I could not do this without you all bouncing stuff off of me.....

PEACE!!!

[daffodil]

I read it to mean she was dug up also.I just dont see how they could stuff a 4 year old in a duffel bag/suitcase-surely it would be too heavy and large.

[colomom]

I read it to mean she was dug up also.I just dont see how they could stuff a 4 year old in a duffel bag/suitcase-surely it would be too heavy and large.

Sorry, but "remove this traceable evidence" does not mean move the body....

And she was 3 and reported to be 90cm tall....

[Texana]

I think it's an interesting possibility, Colomom.

And it does emphasize that the McCanns had plenty of opportunity to transport Madeleine to different locations, if they wished to do so.

Irishmist, I would have probably come to the same conclusion--dig her up, then transport her, that would be more difficult. But--not entirely impossible.

[SleuthMom]

The thing is if the Mc Canns had plenty opportunities to transport Madeleine to different locations, then are we saying there is little or no chance to ever find her and get these parents locked if they are involved? :(

[Texana]

The thing is if the Mc Canns had plenty opportunities to transport Madeleine to different locations, then are we saying there is little or no chance to ever find her and get these parents locked if they are involved? :(

If the rumors about the McCanns being tracked via cellphone or GPS on their car, perhaps there is a good chance.

If not, then yes, it might very well be that the McCanns get away with a cover up.

But they'll be the ones in the end who have to live with that knowledge.

[ThoughtFox]

It is being reported on Paulo Reis' blog today:

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/09/police-is-checking-kate-and-gerry-trips.html

and this is being discussed on various forums.
Very suspicious - I hadn't read about this before, but I recall the day the woman from Belgium "swore" she had seen Maddy in Holland, and everyone was thinking it was valid. So the whole world was looking that way, and diverting attention from the parents for once.

This part of Paulo's blog intrigues me - too suspicious for words! :eek:

The day the McCann choose to go to Huelva, to campaign for Madeleine – with leaflets only in Portuguese – is also considered “strange” by Portuguese Police. Huelva has a unique holiday on August 3 and the all people concentrates in downtown, in what it's called “Feria Colombina” celebrating the departure of Colombo to discover America. Shopping malls and most commercial activities close, including churches and the cathedral, where the McCann wanted to go to pray, as they told to the Press.:confused:

To campaign and distribute leaflets, with the pictures of Madeleine, in Huelva, seem to be useless: for all over the city, the Municipal Council had posted giant pictures of the missing child. The McCann went to Huelva without the usual media “circus”. :waitasec: The day before, Gerry McCann had a “stomach bug” and cancelled several activities for the campaign to find Madeleine.


Just so odd, and unlike them to not want attention, plus the police lost them that day, so they weren't doing their usual sorts of things. And this doesn't mention them meeting friends or new acquaintances there, so what was the point of the trip? They could have stayed home to pray, after all.

And also look at this picture:

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/?storyID=8133&p=10

Remember the Cadaver Jeans?

Thoughts please....and be nice, I have had a bad day.....
Is it just me, or do those jeans look stained and less clean than her usual wardrobe? Also the look on her face is very pained, while Gerry seems to be smiling? Had they gotten away with something that day?

Sorry you are having a bad day, by the way. My weekend had it's ups and downs also. *hugs*

[docwho3]

So far I have just glanced at this thread and have not yet read all the posts but it sounds like you just may be on to something. Keep digging.

[blaize]

Hmm I know it's a theory but in my humble opinion it's not a very valid one because if you read the quote below from the Times a lot of backtracking seems to be happening over the forensic evidence supposedly found in the car.

[Source (http://timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2517988.ece)]

What forensic evidence has been collected?

Dozens of samples were recovered from apartments used by the McCanns and another family at the Ocean Club resort. Police have also searched the McCanns’ hire car. The material has been examined by the Forensic Science Service (FSS) in Birmingham

Is there enough evidence to convict Kate and Gerry McCann?

Portuguese detectives have been briefing the media since the middle of August that there was compelling evidence from hair, bodily fluids and blood. But in the past ten days the briefings have been more doubtful. A police source told 24 Horas newspaper yesterday: “There is no element which can definitively state that the body of the little girl was transported in that vehicle”

What does the FSS say about its results?

The laboratory was reported yesterday to have sent an e-mail to Portuguese police complaining that its findings had been “widely misused”. The Mail on Sunday said that the FSS had criticised detectives for overplaying the results and leaking information – most of it inaccurate – to the Portuguese media

What do the British authorities say?

Leicestershire police say they are bound by the Portuguese laws of judicial secrecy and that releasing any information on the case could jeopardise their delicate working relationship with colleagues in Portugal

[strach304]

Going back a couple of weeks ago right after all the dna news was reported they were saying that Port LE was going to use the cell phones and gps to back track where the McCanns and company had been and conduct searches. Everything that was reported about the church and Fatima, etc. being searched has never materialized. The reporters were camped out at the church just to report that there was no LE activity.

There are constant new headlines everyday that often promise more drtails to come or some kind of follow-up or the latest that Port LE is working on, only to be forgotten about by the next days headlines. Impossible to see what is really being done if anything.

[IrishMist]

BIG HUG Irish Mist...seriously...http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/colomom/bighug.gif

I warned you that I was having a bad day....I am touchy as heck...

But, I love you guys....I could not do this without you all bouncing stuff off of me.....

PEACE!!!

Sorry I didn't come back last night. After I ate, all I wanted to do was sleep :)

Hope today goes better for you, I'm sure I'll "see" you later.

[docwho3]

Hmm I know it's a theory but in my humble opinion it's not a very valid one because if you read the quote below from the Times a lot of backtracking seems to be happening over the forensic evidence supposedly found in the car.

[Source (http://timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2517988.ece)]
. . . Thanks for the link and the update.

Yes, I see your point but since the theory has come up and at least seems plausible I think the possibility needs to be looked at carefully just to be sure. Being sure can't hurt the parents if they are innocent and if they are guilty it might result in recovery of body.

However, I am interested to hear of the evidence seeming to be melting away, especially that about the labs complaining that their results are being misused.

[blaize]

Thanks for the link and the update.

Yes, I see your point but since the theory has come up and at least seems plausible I think the possibility needs to be looked at carefully just to be sure. Being sure can't hurt the parents if they are innocent and if they are guilty it might result in recovery of body.

However, I am interested to hear of the evidence seeming to be melting away, especially that about the labs complaining that their results are being misused.

Hello docwho3, thanks for replying.

I can't tell you how much it bothers me that the Portuguese LE did not take the initiative & investigate the family first, if only for the purposes of eliminating them from the investigation.

It also bothers me that a fellow Enropean country is now being perceived so negatively for their handling of such a dreadful event & that when the 'fit hits the shan' that everyone seems to be too busy ducking and diving for cover & that the search for Madeleine gets pushed to the background by all the brouhaha.

[AfterMidnight]

Where did you read "dig up her remains"???? That is exactly what infuriates me to no end....

I was talking about removing evidence...clothes, a duffel bag...etc.

I am trying to be nice.....:furious: :furious:

i should have said "dig up her remains...and move her....I just wanted to make it clear that I never meant move her...

Actually, here's exactly what you said, colomom:

"IF, as some have thought, Madeleine was killed and hastily buried close by the resort on the night of May 3rd and after hearing that the sniffer dogs were coming, someone panicked and realized that she had been buried with "something" that could be traced back to "someone". So maybe that someone might have thought it a good idea to remove this traceable evidence and maybe put it in the back of a car and drive it far away to bury it somewhere. That way if a body was found it would be easier to say someone else had left her there."

In order to get the "evidence" you're talking about (which was obviously by your own post) buried with her, they would have HAD to dig up the remains. No one said MOVE the REMAINS, just remove the evidence you referenced.

Sorry you're having a bad day.

[philamena]

Can someone tell me what the cadaver jeans are?
Are you all referring to the jeans Kate wore in the link above?
Did she wear those the night Maddie disappeared?
Did the cadaver dog(s) alert to the jeans?
TIA

[colomom]

Actually, here's exactly what you said, colomom:

"IF, as some have thought, Madeleine was killed and hastily buried close by the resort on the night of May 3rd and after hearing that the sniffer dogs were coming, someone panicked and realized that she had been buried with "something" that could be traced back to "someone". So maybe that someone might have thought it a good idea to remove this traceable evidence and maybe put it in the back of a car and drive it far away to bury it somewhere. That way if a body was found it would be easier to say someone else had left her there."

In order to get the "evidence" you're talking about (which was obviously by your own post) buried with her, they would have HAD to dig up the remains. No one said MOVE the REMAINS, just remove the evidence you referenced.

Sorry you're having a bad day.

From Irish Mist's post: "But to dig up the remains, load her in a car, take her out of the car and bury her"

We got this all clarified yesterday...the bad day was yesterday....

Thanks anyway....

[Pinkhammer]

Thanks for these fascinating articles from Paulo Reis.

They show that there were a few opportune moments when Gerry was NOT being hounded by the press, and he COULD HAVE removed remains or articles from one place to another.

Tiny little Maddie most certainly could have fit into a dufflebag.

Gerry is going to have quite a few more "upset stomachs" before all is said and done.

[colomom]

Can someone tell me what the cadaver jeans are?

The jeans that the cadaver dogs alerted to.

Are you all referring to the jeans Kate wore in the link above?

Yes.

Did she wear those the night Maddie disappeared?

Possibly.

Did the cadaver dog(s) alert to the jeans?

The cadaver dog alerted to a pair of jeans.

TIA

[AfterMidnight]

From Irish Mist's post: "But to dig up the remains, load her in a car, take her out of the car and bury her"

We got this all clarified yesterday...the bad day was yesterday....

Thanks anyway....

Utterly amazing, 'cause this is the first time this has come up on my computer. How strange is that?

Anyway, hope you're having a better day, although it sounds like your nerves are frayed. I believe this case does that to you.

[L L & S]

Colomom,

I believe your nerves are right as rain so don't let all these little "digs" get to you. This case has frustrated many of us. I appreciate your dedication to Maddie's forum and I look forward to reading your posts daily. I also appreciate that you keep your cool rather well! YOU are a very good example of the best of Websleuths, imho.

[colomom]

Funny thing is...my nerves are fine.

As I was telling a friend in a PM today....I know it is slow, news wise, and I know we are all hungry for something to happen in this case, and I know that hungry people are grumpy people....most of the time.

I would describe myself as being a little frustrated. I am frustrated with people's lack of tolerance for each other and for each other's feelings. For the life of me, I cannot understand why some people need to use sarcasm in their posts. To me that just seems mean-spirited. I really wish we could just appreciate what each of us brings to this forum and perhaps find just a little kindness in our hearts so that we can look past something that we don't agree with. But then again, we are just people, aren't we? Nobody's perfect.

Anyway....maybe what you are picking up in my rather "heated" posts of late is the fact that I have a cold...and I feel like death.

http://smileydatabase.com/s/836.gif

[colomom]

Colomom,

I believe your nerves are right as rain so don't let all these little "digs" get to you. This case has frustrated many of us. I appreciate your dedication to Maddie's forum and I look forward to reading your posts daily. I also appreciate that you keep your cool rather well! YOU are a very good example of the best of Websleuths, imho.

:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

I truly do love you guys....http://smileydatabase.com/s/608.png

[Shazza]

:blowkiss: :blowkiss: :blowkiss:

I truly do love you guys....http://smileydatabase.com/s/608.png

I love you too for all you tireless, dedicated hard work, you are truly the super sluether.:blowkiss:

[L L & S]

Funny thing is...my nerves are fine.

As I was telling a friend in a PM today....I know it is slow, news wise, and I know we are all hungry for something to happen in this case, and I know that hungry people are grumpy people....most of the time.

I would describe myself as being a little frustrated. I am frustrated with people's lack of tolerance for each other and for each other's feelings. For the life of me, I cannot understand why some people need to use sarcasm in their posts. To me that just seems mean-spirited. I really wish we could just appreciate what each of us brings to this forum and perhaps find just a little kindness in our hearts so that we can look past something that we don't agree with. But then again, we are just people, aren't we? Nobody's perfect.

Anyway....maybe what you are picking up in my rather "heated" posts of late is the fact that I have a cold...and I feel like death.

http://smileydatabase.com/s/836.gif

I was being a little snarky towards another poster in my post. I apologize for that.
http://bestsmileys.com/peace/1.gif

How's that old saying go?

Why can't we all just get a bong?

... get along... I mean get along!!

http://bestsmileys.com/lol/16.gif

[AfterMidnight]

Funny thing is...my nerves are fine.

As I was telling a friend in a PM today....I know it is slow, news wise, and I know we are all hungry for something to happen in this case, and I know that hungry people are grumpy people....most of the time.

I would describe myself as being a little frustrated. I am frustrated with people's lack of tolerance for each other and for each other's feelings. For the life of me, I cannot understand why some people need to use sarcasm in their posts. To me that just seems mean-spirited. I really wish we could just appreciate what each of us brings to this forum and perhaps find just a little kindness in our hearts so that we can look past something that we don't agree with. But then again, we are just people, aren't we? Nobody's perfect.

Anyway....maybe what you are picking up in my rather "heated" posts of late is the fact that I have a cold...and I feel like death.

http://smileydatabase.com/s/836.gif

When I said "you", I didn't mean you, colomom, I meant the plural you, as in all of us, me included. Sorry if you and others took it the wrong way.

[colomom]

When I said "you", I didn't mean you, colomom, I meant the plural you, as in all of us, me included. Sorry if you and others took it the wrong way.

No harm done AfterMidnight...I was just responding to this part anyway:

"Anyway, hope you're having a better day, although it sounds like your nerves are frayed."

Peace...seriously....http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/ad/surrender.gif

[CaliKid]

It would seem that if the PJ did what they claimed they did- use GPS and satellite tracking of the McCanns, they should be able to pull up detailed pictures of them in all sorts of activities. So if they went somewhere and dug up Madeleine's body and then drove to Huelva and pulled off the road to rebury her, you'd figure they would find out.

[Brefie]

It would seem that if the PJ did what they claimed they did- use GPS and satellite tracking of the McCanns, they should be able to pull up detailed pictures of them in all sorts of activities. So if they went somewhere and dug up Madeleine's body and then drove to Huelva and pulled off the road to rebury her, you'd figure they would find out.

This is truly what I cannot figure out. IF they have all of this stuff on the parents - ARREST THEM ALREADY!!

Does anyone know why they have not? That's a genuine question, asked without malice or sarcasm and open to all input regardless of whether we agree or not in general.

[hcc2007]

This is truly what I cannot figure out. IF they have all of this stuff on the parents - ARREST THEM ALREADY!!

Does anyone know why they have not? That's a genuine question, asked without malice or sarcasm and open to all input regardless of whether we agree or not in general.

Here's a site I go to regularly:

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/newsfeed/?name=Madeleine+McCann

From the articles there, I've gathered that the PJ simply don't have enough evidence. They've done their best to 'scare' the McCann's into confessing, but that didn't work. I think they're going on four rather thin threads:

1) the abduction investigation didn't find anything.
2) parents kill children more often than strangers do.
3) the cadaver dogs alerted to McCanns' space & belongings; not to Murat's.
4) DNA evidence is suggestive (but not conclusive).

Altogether it's enough to give them a strong hunch (we all know how that is!) but not enough to cross the legal threshold for charging or convicting someone (I guess you basically don't charge unless you believe you can convict, so those are the same threshold).

I think their announcement that Murat is no longer a suspect is just another way they are using to try to scare the McCanns into giving away something new. Also the reports about digging up church yards. It's not plausible. You could probably take an earth mover to the entire country of Portugal, and still not find her.

So, they're kind of desperate. To be fair, PJ have been under intense pressure. I'm waiting for a PJ spokesman to say how "hurtful" it's all been. <- Ok, that is sarcasm, but not toward anyone here! :)

Love you all.

[CaliKid]

I also think that there is intense pressure from above to bury this case. If the McCanns are as politically well-connected as they appear to be, I imagine that there are people in high places who do NOT want them to be guilty of harming Madeleine. I think it's entirely plausible for the UK government to have "asked" the Portuguese government to let the charges just die on the vine. The magistrate can hem and haw all he likes for the next 8 months about not having enough evidence to charge the parents, and it will just go away.

[Brefie]

I also think that there is intense pressure from above to bury this case. If the McCanns are as politically well-connected as they appear to be, I imagine that there are people in high places who do NOT want them to be guilty of harming Madeleine. I think it's entirely plausible for the UK government to have "asked" the Portuguese government to let the charges just die on the vine. The magistrate can hem and haw all he likes for the next 8 months about not having enough evidence to charge the parents, and it will just go away.

I must respectfully completely disagree with this. I would think that having 'egg on face' would pale in comparison to letting child murderers go free.

[kiltubrid]

Perhaps they want to find the body before they press charges.

Colomon, I think your theory about the trio to Huelva is an interesting one. I just have one question: why would they have had to dig up something she was buried with? Couldn't they have had it hidden somewhere and decided they needed to move it when the sniffer dogs were being brought in? I'm thinking this could have been her bed sheets, pillow and/or pajamas. I would have been easy enough for them to have hidden something like that in the church.

[CaliKid]

I must respectfully completely disagree with this. I would think that having 'egg on face' would pale in comparison to letting child murderers go free.

Yes, but it's a two-pronged approach. That's where the big push from the McCann team comes into play. Have we not seen news stories every single day of someone either defending the parents (they're not guilty) or questioning whether Madeleine is still alive (new sightings, etc.)? The whole plan is to downplay the evidence so that they don't look like child murderers.

On one hand, you convince the Portuguese courts not to arrest the McCanns and hold off putting them on trial. On the other, you amass a public opinion blitz to convince the populace that they're innocent and being smeared by the vicious Portuguese police.

Do you really believe that the government, in the general scheme of power plays and controling a country, gives a rat's butt whether this child is alive or not? The UK prime minister has already come out strongly on the McCanns' side. Certainly, he doesn't want to have egg on his face.

[IrishMist]

Yes, but it's a two-pronged approach. That's where the big push from the McCann team comes into play. Have we not seen news stories every single day of someone either defending the parents (they're not guilty) or questioning whether Madeleine is still alive (new sightings, etc.)? The whole plan is to downplay the evidence so that they don't look like child murderers.

On one hand, you convince the Portuguese courts not to arrest the McCanns and hold off putting them on trial. On the other, you amass a public opinion blitz to convince the populace that they're innocent and being smeared by the vicious Portuguese police.

Do you really believe that the government, in the general scheme of power plays and controling a country, gives a rat's butt whether this child is alive or not? The UK prime minister has already come out strongly on the McCanns' side. Certainly, he doesn't want to have egg on his face.

Are these type of convoluted theories really more believable than an abduction theory? :confused:

I'm not picking on you directly, CaliKid. I've just been seeing some really far out (IMO) theories to make the McCann's guilty of this crime.

[CaliKid]

I think if we were dealing with parents who didn't happen to know people who knew the prime minister or high-placed government officials or well-known media celebrities, an abduction theory would make more sense.

But the McCanns (and/or their friends) have a lot of powerful contacts who paved their way very early on to set up a huge nearly-global campaign. Combined with the media black-out in the UK in which anyone who criticized the parents were figuratively strung up and left twitching, believing in a "get the parents off no matter what" conspiracy isn't a big jump.

[IrishMist]

I think if we were dealing with parents who didn't happen to know people who knew the prime minister or high-placed government officials or well-known media celebrities, an abduction theory would make more sense.

But the McCanns (and/or their friends) have a lot of powerful contacts who paved their way very early on to set up a huge nearly-global campaign. Combined with the media black-out in the UK in which anyone who criticized the parents were figuratively strung up and left twitching, believing in a "get the parents off no matter what" conspiracy isn't a big jump.

I think it's a huge jump, but difference of opinion make the world go 'round, right? :)

So do you think the government is mad at them for hiring the private investigators and keeping all of this in the public eye, instead of just trying to get this thing to die down?

[colomom]

Perhaps they want to find the body before they press charges.

Colomon, I think your theory about the trio to Huelva is an interesting one. I just have one question: why would they have had to dig up something she was buried with? Couldn't they have had it hidden somewhere and decided they needed to move it when the sniffer dogs were being brought in? I'm thinking this could have been her bed sheets, pillow and/or pajamas. I would have been easy enough for them to have hidden something like that in the church.

Awesome thinking...could very well be.

I guess I was thinking why would they keep anything for that long? But if they had hidden things at a second site....very possible...

I was also tying it in with the upset stomach which I very clearly remember thinging was bogus but I don't remember why I thought that.

[Brefie]

Yes, but it's a two-pronged approach. That's where the big push from the McCann team comes into play. Have we not seen news stories every single day of someone either defending the parents (they're not guilty) or questioning whether Madeleine is still alive (new sightings, etc.)? The whole plan is to downplay the evidence so that they don't look like child murderers.

On one hand, you convince the Portuguese courts not to arrest the McCanns and hold off putting them on trial. On the other, you amass a public opinion blitz to convince the populace that they're innocent and being smeared by the vicious Portuguese police.

Do you really believe that the government, in the general scheme of power plays and controling a country, gives a rat's butt whether this child is alive or not? The UK prime minister has already come out strongly on the McCanns' side. Certainly, he doesn't want to have egg on his face.

I respect this is your opinion, but it is a little out there for me.

[colomom]

in Correio da Manha this morning:

http://www.correiodamanha.pt/noticia...dCanal=9&p=200

Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com... 86581&page=34 post #506

Suspicions: Authorities went to Spain to try to understand what the McCanns did on August 3
PJ investigates trip to Huelva

Policia Judiciaria is investigating a trip of the McCann couple to Huelva, Spain, made on August 3, which used the Renault Scenic that contained traces that are presumed to belong to Maddie. These diligences are performed according to the theory, which is now followed more intensely by the investigators, that points to the child's death and the moving of the corpse in that car. PJ has already collected video surveillance images in "locations that make no sense" where the Renault Scenic may have been through.

The suspicions become more dense with some details of the trip. Namely the fact that for almost three months, Kate and Gerry had an intense media agenda, which included the presence of the press all over Europe. This was until August 2, a time when Maddie's father alleged intestinal problems and cancelled the entire program, which included meetings with some associations in Huelva.

Gerry missed that day, but PJ found out later that the trip from Praia da Luz to that Spanish city was made the next day, this time including the couple and a small group of journalists. This was the first time in three months, since their daughter disappeared on the night of May 3.

The 'strangest' part is the fact that on that day, it was a holiday in Huelva. And the McCanns didn't schedule any meetings, everything was closed - and there was a big agitation at the city center. At a time when the inspectors are trying to reconstitute thousands of 'unjustified' kilometers that the Renault Scenic made during this period, CM knows there was even a meeting between the leaders of the investigation and the Spanish police.

After the detection of residues that may lead to the presence of the body inside the car, the PJ, besides failing to find a justification for the exaggerated amount of kilometers travelled, already owns several images of the passage of that van through Spain, on August 3. The van may contain the key to the crime.

Kilometres have not been justified

PJ owns the records of the kilometers that were made with the van, between May 27 and July 3. The distances are being checked, in order to try to reconstitute the locations where the van that was hired by the McCanns passed through.

Residues collected in August

The blood residues that are presumed to belong to Madeleine, were collected inside the car in early August. THat was also the time when the English dogs smelled cadaver odour inside the boot, and on the vehicle's key.

(...)

Results delayed

PJ still awaits the results from analyses that are being performed on the rest of the residues that were collected inside the McCanns' car and in the apartment. They are not expected this week.

Awaiting interrogations

The POlicia Judiciaria is preparing the request letters that will be sent to England. The purpose is to interrogate the McCanns and their friends.

[colomom]

Blog entries from the time period in question


Day 97 - 08/08/2007
Kates parents left early this morning. We did a short interview on how our faith has helped us during the last 3 months since Madeleines abduction. Given the events of the last few days we need to draw even greater strength from our faith and everyone who has supported us.

With the huge amount of media attention on us again it is very difficult to do anything with the kids without them being filmed and it is unfair on them. There is a huge amount of speculation in the media that Madeleine is dead, particularly with the obvious change in strategy of the investigation recently. At our meeting with the Portuguese police today we reaffirmed that we have to believe Madeleine is alive until there is concrete evidence to the contrary. It is this belief that has driven everything we have done in relation to publicising Madeleines disappearance over the last 3 months.

Day 96 - 07/08/2007
Kate and I managed an early morning run today. It was pleasantly cooler, with a refreshing breeze, which made a nice change. The media presence in Praia da Luz is at its greatest since the first couple of weeks, as is the amount of speculation and rumour regarding the investigation.

This morning we agreed to do a short, pooled interview that was made available to all broadcasters worldwide. We wanted to make it clear, that as far as we know, there is still absolutely no evidence that Madeleine has been seriously harmed and Kate and I have to believe she is still alive. The Portuguese police have assured us on numerous occasions that they are looking for Madeleine and not a corpse. Of course all possibilities are being considered and the police have to be certain before eliminating any of the scenarios. It is absolutely right that we are subject to the same high standards of investigation as anyone else. Kate and I have, and will continue to assist the police in every possible way.

We hope there is a breakthrough in the investigation very soon. In the meantime the campaign to keep the public involved in the search for Madeleine continues. We are always trying to think of ideas that will reach people who may not have heard of Madeleines disappearance. I spent a couple of hours this afternoon working on forthcoming events but did manage to squeeze in a much-needed haircut!

Day 95 - 06/08/2007
Today was again very busy. Lots of e-mails and telephone calls to family and friends who have been involved in the campaign to find Madeleine. I went to a large office store in Portimao to buy a new printer and ink, both of which were badly needed after all the posters we produced this last week.
There has been lots of media attention on the latest police searches. We are pleased that the investigation remains so active and we are cooperating fully with the Portuguese and British police, as we have done since day 1. We continue to hope and pray daily for that vital breakthrough or sighting that will lets us be reunited as a family.

Day 94 - 05/08/2007
We attended church this morning as usual. The local priest father Manuel is on holiday so the mass was all in Portuguese and although quicker than normal we did not understand too much of the sermon.

I note there was a lot of coverage of Kates interview in the Sunday newspapers today. I managed to read one of them and certainly seemd to sum up very well how we are feeling and coping without Madeleine. The key message is that we are doing everything we can to help find Madeleine.

After lunch we had a meeting with our campaign manager and Kates family to run through a few things which will be happening this week. There was going to be a lot of media here leading up to the 100 days although we still hope we will not get to that marker, even before this latest search by the Portuguese police.

Kate and I popped back down to the church later on tonight to say a few quiet prayers for Madeleine. The town is much busier at night than when we first came here on holiday and ieven compared to a few weeks ago.

Computer glitches now sorted out thanks to Calum at infohost.

Day 93 - 04/08/2007
Another early start to the day as I dropped the crew who did some filming for the website and other forthcoming events. Kate and I did a short interview reviewing the last 3 months and the search for Madeleine. We spent the rest of the day with the kids and Kate's family. We were all glad it clouded over in the afternoon to give us some respite from the intense heat.

The most recent searches by the police have attracted a lot of renewed media interest with satellite trucks arriving back in Praia da Luz. It is likely that some of the British Broadcasters will also come back out.

We werre all very tired and we managed to get off to bed at 10.30pm, which is very early for us by recent standards.

Day 92 - 03/08/2007
It is exactly 3 months since Madeleine was abducted. Kate and I had an early start as we drove to Huelva, 50Km over the border from Portugal in Southern Spain. We were meant to go yesterday but had to cancel because I was ill.

Unfortunately it was a public holiday in Huelva and the large shopping centre we planned to visit was closed. We did distribute posters in several garages, taxi ranks and the bus and train stations and gave out some Madeleine wristbands. This was definitely a worthwhile exercise, as many people did not seemingly recognise Madeleine but we did get a very warm response from the Spanish people we met. We would encourage everyone to continue taking posters on holiday but please ask permission before putting them up in public places.

When we arrived back in Praia da Luz we did a couple of media interviews to building up to August 11th, which will mark 100 days if Madeleine is still missing. There will be a lot of media activity next week reviewing Madeleine's abduction, the investigation and of course the campaign to help find her. It is an opportunity to highlight that we have not given up hope and are still optimistic of being reunited with Madeleine.

Tonight we prayed for Madeleine at a vigil in the church. This has happened every Friday since Madeleines abduction and was very well attended tonight, probably due to the greater number of tourists in the resort

Day 91 - 02/08/2007
Today was a bit of a write off for me as I was laid low with a probable viral illness which meant I could not stray too far from the house! I did manage to get through some e-mails, telephone calls and some paperwork. Feeling a bit better tonight so hopefully be back to normal tomorrow.

Kate did manage to put up some of the new Madeleine posters in shops around Praia da Luz.. It is noticably busier, now that we are in August, with lots of tourists many of whom are from Portugal. The figures from the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children show that one in six kids are recovered after being recognised from a poster. Such statistics do encourage us that relatively simple measures may be effective in helping us find Madeleine.

Day 90 - 01/08/2007
Another trip to the airport this morning to pick up our campaign manager. Kate did a series of interviews for womens magazines and the Sunday newspapers which took most of the afternoon. Kates parents, who we visit regularly at home, also arrived and the twins were very happy to see them. They will be staying with us for a week.

We have had some new posters designed of Madeleine, in Portuguese and Spanish, which I have been printing out to distribute locally. I also did some filming to camera which we might use on the website and for future events.

Day 89 - 31/07/2007
Relatively quiet day apart from phone calls and campaign related e-mails. We have Busy couple of days coming up so off to bed relatively early (before midnight)!

[Morag]

These interviews would have occurred immediately after the trip to Huelva. If these were tv interviews, I would love to see them. I would also love to see the pix that Dianne Webster took on the evening of May 3. Oops, OT.


When we arrived back in Praia da Luz we did a couple of media interviews to building up to August 11th,

[colomom]

Still searching for any televised interviews but I think I read that those interviews, that Gerry refers to, were never used (I will try to find that too).

This radio interview, Kate's first interview alone, was done within days of the Huelva trip.

This is the link to the radio interview:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/01/2007_32_wed.shtml

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=15131&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=interview+august&start=4215

Scroll down to Scarf1's post...I think it is thought provoking.

[2XL]

gm'S postings are so normal and without emotion. It sounds as if I were coming on WS everyday and writing about my past few days. This guy is a piece of work.

[docwho3]

I am watching this thread with interest. From the article in the news it sounds as if others are too.

[ThoughtFox]

Still searching for any televised interviews but I think I read that those interviews, that Gerry refers to, were never used (I will try to find that too).

This radio interview, Kate's first interview alone, was done within days of the Huelva trip.

This is the link to the radio interview:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/01/2007_32_wed.shtml

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=15131&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=interview+august&start=4215

Scroll down to Scarf1's post...I think it is thought provoking.
Whoa - it sure is! Thanks, colomom - interesting reading!

[Texana]

Okay, I've listened to the taped interview now. I couldn't catch as many "to be honest" or "obviously" because of Kate's accent. I did note that she does hesitate before agreeing that Madeleine was sleeping when she left.

The "obviously" and "to be honest" seem to be more verbal tics, more indicative of Kate's personality than anything else to me. She is not a person used to defending herself or being criticized in any way.

Also, she talks about how Madeleine was happy and tired on that last day and "that's how I like to remember her." The word "remember" is just very striking here. As well, when she is talking about the twins, she says she wants them to remember Madeleine.

You remember people who are gone for good. You think about people you miss that are coming back.

Listen to it and see if you don't get the same impression.

[CaliKid]

I think it's a huge jump, but difference of opinion make the world go 'round, right? :)

So do you think the government is mad at them for hiring the private investigators and keeping all of this in the public eye, instead of just trying to get this thing to die down?

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.

Yes, I think PM Brown wishes he'd never gotten involved in Madeleine's case. I believe it's going to come back to haunt him, especially as many people are beginning to wonder about the connections between the McCanns and how they're so well connected.

http://gazetadigitalmadeleinecase.blogspot.com/2007/08/dangerous-connections.html

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EpKZO3c69Ps

[teacherbees]

Texana - that is an excellent point regarding the difference between remember and think.

[CaliKid]

Still searching for any televised interviews but I think I read that those interviews, that Gerry refers to, were never used (I will try to find that too).

This radio interview, Kate's first interview alone, was done within days of the Huelva trip.

This is the link to the radio interview:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/womanshour/01/2007_32_wed.shtml

http://forums.mirror.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=15131&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=interview+august&start=4215

Scroll down to Scarf1's post...I think it is thought provoking.

Having also been married (and now divorced from) a narcissist, Scarf1's opinions are right on the money. Kate McCann is one of the coldest women I have ever seen, and IMO, any display of emotion on her part for Madeleine is faked up to get a sympathy response. My 17 year old daughter, watching her early interviews, said about Kate, "she's not crying- she doesn't have any tears".

[Barnaby]

Just listened to the interview, she really hesitated when asked if Madeleine was sleeping when she left, anyone else notice that?

Her voice never even broke once talking about Madeleines last day, I would have been in bits

She also said that within 30 seconds she was convinced that someone had taken Madeleine so that backs up her saying "they've taken her" even though it is being denied now.

"Occasionally it catches me when the twins talk about her", hell it would kill me!

This is one composed woman!

She very quickly changes the WAS to IS special to Madeleine when talking about Cuddlecat

[AfterMidnight]

I have to agree that using the past tense when speaking about your abducted child is not a good sign. Usually, using the past tense is a dead give away that you know the person isn't coming back.

The reason it doesn't strike me as much in this case is because by now the parents might truly believe she is dead, that there is no hope. Abduction by a pedophile usually doesn't have a happy ending. Once in a while the child survives, but in the majority of cases the child is dead within hours of the abduction.

[teacherbees]

Aftermidnight, I don't pretend to be an expert on these kinds of things but it seems to me that in most of the cases I've heard about (via TV shows like Dr. Phil, Oprah, etc...) parents of long missing children are more distinguished by the refusal to believe that their child is really dead. I've heard a number of these poor folks say things like, "I just really feel that he/she is alive", even years after their children were abducted.

It really hasn't been that long since Madeleine disappeared. A lifetime if you're a parent who truly doesn't know where your beloved baby is, but not so long in an objective sense.

[ThoughtFox]

teacherbees: Great point about the amount of time. How are they so calm about this?

I'll be honest about Elizabeth Smart - I really thought the parents were guilty somehow at first. But then every time I ever saw the parents on the news they would look straight into the camera and talk to Elizabeth and tell her they were going to find her. And both of them would get so emotional about it - only a few sociopaths can really fake that sort of emotion, such as Susan Smith in South Carolina.

I thought the Smarts were in denial, and that Elizabeth had to be dead. But the Smarts were innocent of her abduction, and they believed she had to be out there somewhere, and they never gave up hope. They were never "resigned" to her fate, and they were just as passionate as months went by.

[Edwards20]

I have to agree that using the past tense when speaking about your abducted child is not a good sign. Usually, using the past tense is a dead give away that you know the person isn't coming back. I agree on this as well, it really doesn't set well with me. The lack of "public emotion" doesn't bother me as much as this, as people cope with things differently.

[colomom]

Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=latest&action=display&thread=1182386581&page=34 Post #508

in Diario de Noticias this morning:

http://dn.sapo.pt/2007/09/28/sociedade/corpo_maddie_pode_estar_enterrado_hu.html

Maddie's body may be buried in Huelva

There are two hours that remain to be clarified during the trip that was made on August 3 by Madeleine McCann's parents to the Spanish city of Huelva, in the Renault Scenic that was rented three weeks after their daughter disappeared from Praia da Luz.

Although it was a holiday in Huelva, the McCann couple went to that town in Andalucia, accompanied by an image operator who was hired to make a video about the Maddie case, and a friend of his.

Gerry and Kate met Portuguese and foreign journalists between 10.30 and 12.30, at various locations, namely at department store El Corte Ingles, at the train station and at the cathedral, where they distributed and put up posters with the image of their daughter and the police contact numbres, so anyone who located her could get in contact.

One of the British reporters who, since the first hour when Maddie disappeared, accompanied the McCanns' steps, lost their track for two hours in Huelva, as DN could discover. It would have been during the afternoon that Gerry and Kate, probably without their two companions, stopped being seen by the reporter, who hadn't lost them out of his sight until then.

What they did, nobody knows. A mystery that now thickens the suspicions that Madeleine's body may have been buried in the Huelva area, which could justify the thousands of kilometers that were made during four months.

Among the British journalists that follow the Maddie case at Praia da Luz, there are some who remember that one of the rituals that are practised by many catholics, namely in England, consists in visiting the tomb three months after someone's death. Curiously, on August 3, the day the McCanns "vanished" in Huelva, was three months to the day that their eldest daughter disappeared.

Policia Judiciaria already owns several images from the video surveillance system of petrol stations and highways, along with other locations where the Renault Scenic driven by Gerry McCann went through, which the investigators considered have "no apparent reason" to be.

The trip to Huelva was scheduled for August 2, a day when the McCanns were supposed to meet representatives from associations that are connected to missing children.

But the trip was delayed to the next day, allegedly because of "intestinal problems" of Gerry McCann, according to the justification that was then given by the couple's spokesperson, Justine McGuiness, who didn't travel with them that day.

[AfterMidnight]

Copied from: http://helpmadeleine.proboards79.com/index.cgi?board=latest&action=display&thread=1182386581&page=34 Post #508

in Diario de Noticias this morning:

http://dn.sapo.pt/2007/09/28/sociedade/corpo_maddie_pode_estar_enterrado_hu.html

Maddie's body may be buried in Huelva

There are two hours that remain to be clarified during the trip that was made on August 3 by Madeleine McCann's parents to the Spanish city of Huelva, in the Renault Scenic that was rented three weeks after their daughter disappeared from Praia da Luz.

Although it was a holiday in Huelva, the McCann couple went to that town in Andalucia, accompanied by an image operator who was hired to make a video about the Maddie case, and a friend of his.

Gerry and Kate met Portuguese and foreign journalists between 10.30 and 12.30, at various locations, namely at department store El Corte Ingles, at the train station and at the cathedral, where they distributed and put up posters with the image of their daughter and the police contact numbres, so anyone who located her could get in contact.

One of the British reporters who, since the first hour when Maddie disappeared, accompanied the McCanns' steps, lost their track for two hours in Huelva, as DN could discover. It would have been during the afternoon that Gerry and Kate, probably without their two companions, stopped being seen by the reporter, who hadn't lost them out of his sight until then.

What they did, nobody knows. A mystery that now thickens the suspicions that Madeleine's body may have been buried in the Huelva area, which could justify the thousands of kilometers that were made during four months.

Among the British journalists that follow the Maddie case at Praia da Luz, there are some who remember that one of the rituals that are practised by many catholics, namely in England, consists in visiting the tomb three months after someone's death. Curiously, on August 3, the day the McCanns "vanished" in Huelva, was three months to the day that their eldest daughter disappeared.

Policia Judiciaria already owns several images from the video surveillance system of petrol stations and highways, along with other locations where the Renault Scenic driven by Gerry McCann went through, which the investigators considered have "no apparent reason" to be.

The trip to Huelva was scheduled for August 2, a day when the McCanns were supposed to meet representatives from associations that are connected to missing children.

But the trip was delayed to the next day, allegedly because of "intestinal problems" of Gerry McCann, according to the justification that was then given by the couple's spokesperson, Justine McGuiness, who didn't travel with them that day.

Maybe they were taking baths during that missing 2 hours? Making love? Taking a nap? Lots of reasons, but what I don't understand is how a "reporter" could lose track of anyone. I understand these guys stick closer than leeches.

Among the British journalists that follow the Maddie case at Praia da Luz, there are some who remember that one of the rituals that are practised by many catholics, namely in England, consists in visiting the tomb three months after someone's death.

Wow. I love it when mystical things come into play. I wouldn't doubt there are some "mystical" factors in this case, I'm just not sure if this is one of them, but I will look into it. This is one ritual I'm not familiar with.

Thanks, colomom.

[april4sky]

Maddie's body may be buried in Huelva

There are two hours that remain to be clarified during the trip that was made on August 3 by Madeleine McCann's parents to the Spanish city of Huelva, in the Renault Scenic that was rented three weeks after their daughter disappeared from Praia da Luz.



Madeleine went missing 3rd May.
The trip to Huelva was was 3rd August.
The PLE are now saying..via leaks of course..that the McCanns hid Madeleine's body for three months!!! :rolleyes:

[AfterMidnight]

Madeleine went missing 3rd May.
The trip to Huelva was was 3rd August.
The PLE are now saying..via leaks of course..that the McCanns hid Madeleine's body for three months!!! :rolleyes:

Ah, yes. Numbers play a large part in many mystical organizations such as the Illuminati which many people think consists of the upper/ruling classes in most countries.

Following that train of thought, one could see Madeleine's death/abduction/disappearance as a sacrifice. Now, don't forget, you read it first right here.

[ThoughtFox]

Maybe they were taking baths during that missing 2 hours? Making love? Taking a nap? Lots of reasons.

In the rented Renault? Hmmmm. A bath?

but what I don't understand is how a "reporter" could lose track of anyone. I understand these guys stick closer than leeches.

I see it the other way around - the McCann's may have lost him on purpose.

[PharmSleuth]

Madeleine went missing 3rd May.
The trip to Huelva was was 3rd August.
The PLE are now saying..via leaks of course..that the McCanns hid Madeleine's body for three months!!! :rolleyes:

They don't seem to me to be saying that they hid the body and and only buried it after 3 months, but rather that they buried her shortly after they rented the Renault (hiding the body for 24 days or so, maybe in the deactivated cemetary nearby the resort?), had been racking up lots of mileage in a few months and visited the grave in Huelva 3 months after she died

[Texana]

If it's a custom among UK Catholics, you can't say the Portuguese police are crazy for looking twice at the trip made exactly three months later--since the cadaver dogs hit on the Renault Scenic in possesion of the McCanns at that time.

[april4sky]

They don't seem to me to be saying that they hid the body and and only buried it after 3 months, but rather that they buried her shortly after they rented the Renault (hiding the body for 24 days or so, maybe in the deactivated cemetary nearby the resort?), had been racking up lots of mileage in a few months and visited the grave in Huelva 3 months after she died
All this with the whole world watching!!!
I'm glad you can follow the PLE's train of thought. I'll be damned if I can.:confused: