Kate's bruised arm

[armywife210]

Does anyone know if Kate has been questioned about the bruises on her left arm that are clear in the photo in the pictures thread? I am looking at the one where Gerry is holding her tightly and his hand is right above the bruises. It looks as if the bruising is the exact right size and in the exact right position to be from his hand...

if this has been discussed before, I have failed to find it!

[ny_]

Does anyone know if Kate has been questioned about the bruises on her left arm that are clear in the photo in the pictures thread? I am looking at the one where Gerry is holding her tightly and his hand is right above the bruises. It looks as if the bruising is the exact right size and in the exact right position to be from his hand...

if this has been discussed before, I have failed to find it!

Can't quite answer this specific instance, but I'm of similar ethnic bacground to the McCanns (born in the USA but of mostly Irish, Scottish & Welsh descent). We whiter shade of pale people bruise like bannanas. Even bumping elbows in the subway can leave us black & blue. I was working out at the gym & bumped into a weight machine & got an awful bruise on my arm. And another just walking into a wall at night going to the bathroom without the lights on. Also, whenever I get a shot (flu shots, etc.) or give blood or get any blood work done, I get a bruise.

Back before wheeled luggage became poplular I went on Sprng Break with a bunch of friends. The luggage bruised me from banging into my legs to the point where none of the guys in the group wanted to sit next to me for the fear they'd be mistaken for an abuser!

[Texana]

I bruise easily, too. Same thing.

It could be nothing, but other people have commented on the bruises as questionable.

[Barnaby]

Do you have a link to the picture with her arm bruised? I would like a look

[armywife210]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53137
It's a little ways down. It has the Mccanns sitting together... Gerry has his arm around Kate and Kate is holding the pic of Maddy.
I would just put the pic on here, but for some reason I am not being very successful.
Yes, I bruise easily too. I am light skinned, the kind that burns easily. My husband laughs at me because I have had this huge bruise on my arm for three years because I bump it in the same place every time I put clothes in my dryer. It's not very dark, but it's there.
This isn't just a little bruise though. Or even one big bruise. It looks like a hand grabbed her around the arm, and a thumb ... to me atleast.

[SleuthMom]

As a person that bruises REALLY easily (touch me tight and I get a HUGE bruise) I think Kate's one could be anything.

[armywife210]

Right, but what I am saying is why not look closer at it? I mean if you hit your arm on something, it doesn't show up looking like a hand print.
And even if it doesn't look exactly like a hand print....
if a child ends up missing, I would think that every bruise on that parent would raise an eyebrow, atleast warrant some questions.

[Texana]

Right, but what I am saying is why not look closer at it? I mean if you hit your arm on something, it doesn't show up looking like a hand print.
And even if it doesn't look exactly like a hand print....
if a child ends up missing, I would think that every bruise on that parent would raise an eyebrow, atleast warrant some questions.

You would think, wouldn't you? But again, the position and socioeconomic status of the parents would automatically forgo some questions, unfortunately.

[Dr. Creepin]

I'm Scottish, and pale... I don't bruise that easily.

[poco]

Looks like right about where someone would grab someone on their arm and squeeze hard enough to leave a bruise from their thumb.

[Barnaby]

Thanks for the link Army. I think it is in a peculiar place to bump into something usually your forearm would take a hit. Definitely looks like a hand print to me. Perhaps Gerry was "reminding" her during an interview to keep her mouth shut!

[narlacat]

It's certainly suspicious- I mean who ever has bruises on their arms?

[blaize]

Sorry to be very obtuse now but when was the picture taken?

I'm Irish and pale and yes, I bruise very easily and have bruised myself in the manner I describe below.

Unless the bruise happened on the night Madeleine was taken how does it have any relevance at all?

For what it's worth in my opinion she could have bruised her arm herself by using a crossed arm gripping motion, like you you see people who are in shock or are very cold doing.

[Lynn-ann]

I don't bruise easily either (Dad's Scottish and Mum's English).

The bruises on Kate's arm are intriguing. Does anyone know how soon after Maddie's disappearance the "bruise" photo was taken, please? :)

At least she made no effort to conceal it.

[AfterMidnight]

Since many people here don't bruise easily, it does look suspicious that Kate would have one on her arm of all places. It's obvious to me Gerry must have manhandled her to some extent. I mean, how else. . .?

[wtsn5]

Maybe Gerry did bruise her arm when she returned to the Tapas Bar to tell him maddie was missing. He grabbed her arm to calm her or stop her from moving so he could get more info from her. I would image she was probably histerical when she returned to the Bar and screamed what she scream and started to run back to the room.

This is JMO

[colomom]

I don't bruise easily either (Dad's Scottish and Mum's English).

The bruises on Kate's arm are intriguing. Does anyone know how soon after Maddie's disappearance the "bruise" photo was taken, please? :)

At least she made no effort to conceal it.

http://www.exposay.com/missing-british-3-year-old-girl-madeleine-mccann-in-portugal/v/10561/5/

These photos are from the very first photos posted by Exposay...unfortunately they dated almost all of those early photos as May 4th, which is not accurate. I am fairly confident that the picture was taken within the first week or two after Maddie disapeared.

[KOOL LOOK]

I bruise very very easily. My husband has grabbed me by my arms in that area and I've bruised several times from it. So in other words, everytime I had a bruise in that location on my arm, my husband had grabbed me.

Some people don't bruise easily, my husbands one of them. I tried to hit him over the head with my iron skillet one time, he's so darn fast I couldn't never catch him. So, I can scratch him and get his attention. Then I feel so bad for it, I dont' do it. Poor baby, he should obey me. Te He!

[Rino]

I bruise constantly. Most of the time I have no idea why I got some. So it really doesn't strike me as anything suspicious.

[browneyedgirl]

Right, but what I am saying is why not look closer at it? I mean if you hit your arm on something, it doesn't show up looking like a hand print.
And even if it doesn't look exactly like a hand print....
if a child ends up missing, I would think that every bruise on that parent would raise an eyebrow, atleast warrant some questions.

I would have to say that I agree with you, AW210. It does look like a bruise from someone's grip on her in that area. You can see where at the top it looks like a thumb print and right below, you can kinda make out the other fingers.
For what it's worth, I do agree that it should have been questioned by the police.:twocents: JMHO.....

[armywife210]

Exactly! And I am so surprised that there hasn't been more suspicion about it. I mean, sure anything could have bruised her... It doesn't look like just "anything" though. It looks like a hand. Yes, it could very well be an innocent grab that bruised... it's the timing that makes it suspicious. I just wonder if there was an incident where she was going to break down and tell the truth when he grabbed her tightly and told her that she would do no such thing. I bruise very easily. I am light skinned with a lot of red in my hair... the "bruise easy complexion". My oldest daughter is even worse as her hair is flat out red and she is more pale than I am... but never have either one of us had a vivid hand print bruise on us!
And who's to say that those bruises aren't worse than they look, perhaps they WERE covered up with some makeup?!

[shipmatekate]

I would have to say that I agree with you, AW210. It does look like a bruise from someone's grip on her in that area. You can see where at the top it looks like a thumb print and right below, you can kinda make out the other fingers.
For what it's worth, I do agree that it should have been questioned by the police.:twocents: JMHO.....


For all we know they WERE questioned about it.
We don't get all the info ya know.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

The picture I thought was strange was the one where he has his arm around her waist and is copping a feel of her breast. His elbow was bent, so he could have easily lowered his hand. What man poses for a picture like that?

[Barnaby]

Haven't seen that one interestedwoman

[daffodil]

:doh: Good grief! Sometimes a bruise is just a bruise

[armywife210]

I'm not saying that because of this they are guilty!!!! I am just saying that the bruise looks like a pretty fresh hand print. You would think that EVERYTHING would be looked into very carefully in a situation like this. And it very well could have been.

To be honest, I am not sure where I stand with this case at all... With all of my heart I want to believe that they did not harm that little angel of theirs. And there just isn't enough to sway me one way or the other.

This case is so weird that I am just looking at every little detail I can find.... no need to "good grief" me. :slap:

[Rino]

Maybe Gerry did bruise her arm when she returned to the Tapas Bar to tell him maddie was missing. He grabbed her arm to calm her or stop her from moving so he could get more info from her. I would image she was probably histerical when she returned to the Bar and screamed what she scream and started to run back to the room.

This is JMO
You imagine an awful lot - JMO

[Morag]

The picture I thought was strange was the one where he has his arm around her waist and is copping a feel of her breast. His elbow was bent, so he could have easily lowered his hand. What man poses for a picture like that?

In this case, a man with very small hands.;)

[Maryam]

:doh: Good grief! Sometimes a bruise is just a bruise

I couldn't agree more. And I'm not even pro McCann...

[daffodil]

This case is so weird that I am just looking at every little detail I can find.... no need to "good grief" me. :slap:[/QUOTE]

I think that is part of the problem isnt it? Every little detail/word/gesture is being over analyzed to the point of over reacting.

No need to poke me in the eye either -I might get a bruise lol :p

[wtsn5]

You imagine an awful lot - JMO

If you don't like my post don't read them - very simple. Otherwise just stick to the case - this is about finding Maddie McCann - not putting others down.

Those are my opinions and I am allowed to have them.

[armywife210]

wow, one question about a bruise and everyone is getting ugly! I wasnt even implying anything really. Just making a comment and wondering if anyone else saw what I saw and what ideas might come out of it.

[Texana]

armywife, you could probably start a thread about Kate's hair style and get several very passionate responses. :crazy:

Not having a bruise does not mean Gerry doesn't react physically at times.

Having a bruise doesn't mean that he does.

But yeah, every little thing will get analyzed and discussed, because a little girl went missing.

[kazzbar]

I have read this whole thread...
and I look at my bicep and yes, I have a huge black bruise on it...no, my hubby does not beat me ( If he did then he'd better do a good job as he would be sorry)..and I do not recall how I got it...a bruise on an arm is not a smoking gun on its own. To make any connection with spousal abuse is jumping the gun...

[Salem]

Yes - its true, a bruise on the arm is not a smoking gun, in and of itself. However, a bruise on the arm, that in my opinion, looks consistent with someone grabbing a person, within a few days of a child gone missing, warrants another look.

I believe that Kate and Gerry argued right before the very first video interview with SkyNews. I believe this based on their actions and the impression I got of how angry Kate was. I also believe that all throughout that interview Kate was thinking to herself - what the heck is going on and why are we continuing down this road. I really think Kate had some things to say and Gerry had convinced her not to say them.

I think that very first interview is very telling.

After the "bruise" picture surfaced, they were followed up with pictures of Kate in long sleeves. I would venture to guess (just a guess, mind you) that it was in the 80 and 90ies in the Algrave at the time.

I do think the bruises warrent further investigation.

Salem

[Pharlap]

I don't think so much of the bruise mark...
Many people bruise real easy.


http://alternative-medicine-and-health.com/conditions/bruising.htm

[Jolynna]

I don't think so much of the bruise mark...
Many people bruise real easy.


http://alternative-medicine-and-health.com/conditions/bruising.htm

I bruise easily, too. I also agree that a bruise can be caused by almost anything.

However when a bruise shows up at the same time a mother reports her child missing, I think it takes on more significance.

[txsvicki]

If Kate bruised all that easy, then some bruises should have been seen on all the tv shots and photos of her running around in those skimpy holiday clothes and skirts. Shin bruises, side of leg, etc.

[Salem]

I think the bruise is significant. I really believe that Kate wants to tell the truth, whatever that truth is, and Gerry is holding her back. Unfair in my mind. I have believed that since the very first video done by Sky News. To me, it was obvious that K&G had "words" before the filming of that video and I think those "words" continued for awhile. I believe Kate has something to say and her insistence that she be allowed to say whatever it is, is what that bruise is based on. My opinion only and no I don't have a source, just my own reading of the personal "interplay" between G&K in those many videos we have had the opportunity to watch.

Salem

[colomom]

I think the bruise is significant. I really believe that Kate wants to tell the truth, whatever that truth is, and Gerry is holding her back. Unfair in my mind. I have believed that since the very first video done by Sky News. To me, it was obvious that K&G had "words" before the filming of that video and I think those "words" continued for awhile. I believe Kate has something to say and her insistence that she be allowed to say whatever it is, is what that bruise is based on. My opinion only and no I don't have a source, just my own reading of the personal "interplay" between G&K in those many videos we have had the opportunity to watch.

Salem

On this, we are in total agreement.

[thentherewere4]

The bruise was the result of Gerry not telling Kate where David Payne had hidden the body.

[Barnaby]

I think the bruise is significant. I really believe that Kate wants to tell the truth, whatever that truth is, and Gerry is holding her back. Unfair in my mind. I have believed that since the very first video done by Sky News. To me, it was obvious that K&G had "words" before the filming of that video and I think those "words" continued for awhile. I believe Kate has something to say and her insistence that she be allowed to say whatever it is, is what that bruise is based on. My opinion only and no I don't have a source, just my own reading of the personal "interplay" between G&K in those many videos we have had the opportunity to watch.

Salem

I totally agree!

The bruise was the result of Gerry not telling Kate where David Payne had hidden the body.
Why do you think that it was Payne who hid the body? I would be feeling it was more likely to be O'Brien or Oldfield. Reports are telling us that the Paynes have told the truth so would this not rule them out from being directly involved?

[thentherewere4]

David Payne is Gerrys closest and most loyal Tapas.Kates relationship with Fiona is special and the prioximity (drivetime 20mins) of the 2 families in Leicestershire and the admitted get togethers that the 2 families have shared is no secret.
Payne was seen leaving the Mark Warner Ocean Club complex at 4:00 am on the morning of 4th May 2007 heading off in the direction of the church....with Gerry.

[Salem]

But they were not seen carrying a child. This is speculation, good speculation, but speculation nonetheless. It would not be so unusual for a friend to accompany a grieving parent to the church to pray, or maybe to look for Maddie, see if she had wandered in that direction.

I know that the media reports we get must be screened with much salt :), but it makes sense to me that it is the Paynes and Ms. Webster, especially Ms. Webster, that would give a true accounting of what happened that night to the best of their knowledge. This makes me think that Payne, even if he is Gerry's closest friend, may not know the whole story.

Salem

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

The Paynes left their child/ren unattended as well, even with Granny along. Mrs. Webster is no better than the rest. She is definitely no saint. Didn't bother her to go get "tanked" and leave her grandbaby to fend for her/himself. Even with a "baby monitor", there is no way they could have run back to the apartment to save a child from a deadly accident. What ever is going on with that group, it is a powerful force working their easily manipulated narrow minds. More powerful than the love and respect of their flesh and blood, their precious helpless young children. SOMETHING was more important than their children...for ALL OF THEM. They are all losers, every last one of them...In my humble oppenion as always.

[Salem]

I'm not going to disagree with you IW. I'm just thinking if anyone is going to tell the truth at any point in time, it would probably be the "grandmother." I'm hoping she feels guilty as h*ll for not putting her foot down when the kids wanted to leave the baby unattended (providing she's not the one who convinced them to do such a thing). Also, she is not a doctor and does not appear to have a career/job that would be ruined if the truth came out. I'm thinking she doesn't have as much at risk as the others..... As you say, there certainly was something more important than the children during that whole week. Boggles the mind :(

Salem

[thentherewere4]

The "Grandmother " is Dianne Webster and she has a career. She is a qualified Public Accounts Auditor, works for the NAO and is a credit controller in her home town of Bedford.

[Barnaby]

The Paynes left their child/ren unattended as well, even with Granny along. Mrs. Webster is no better than the rest. She is definitely no saint. Didn't bother her to go get "tanked" and leave her grandbaby to fend for her/himself. Even with a "baby monitor", there is no way they could have run back to the apartment to save a child from a deadly accident. What ever is going on with that group, it is a powerful force working their easily manipulated narrow minds. More powerful than the love and respect of their flesh and blood, their precious helpless young children. SOMETHING was more important than their children...for ALL OF THEM. They are all losers, every last one of them...In my humble oppenion as always.

I agree with you on this one IW, Granny is no better than the rest. No way would I allow my children to leave their children unattended. If they were ever foolish enough to even think about it, I would stay behind & babysit rather than leave the children at risk. Of course my kids would not do that they have been raised to care & be responsible which obviously none of the Tapas morons were so yes Diane Webster must take responsibility for not preventing this negligent action & for not instilling some decent principles into her daughter!

[teacherbees]

so yes Diane Webster must take responsibility for not preventing this negligent action & for not instilling some decent principles into her daughter![/QUOTE]

And unless she was chained into a closet, she must take responsibility for knowing there were babies left alone and not going to stay with them herself.

If I had raised the kind of irresponsible, reprehensible offspring who would allow my grandchildren (or any child) to fend for themselves, I'd at least be standing in the gap and looking after the defenseless babies instead of partying along with the jerks who should've been taking care of their own.

They're all despicable and selfish for putting their own interests over the welfare of sick and scared babies.

[Barnaby]

so yes Diane Webster must take responsibility for not preventing this negligent action & for not instilling some decent principles into her daughter!

And unless she was chained into a closet, she must take responsibility for knowing there were babies left alone and not going to stay with them herself.

If I had raised the kind of irresponsible, reprehensible offspring who would allow my grandchildren (or any child) to fend for themselves, I'd at least be standing in the gap and looking after the defenseless babies instead of partying along with the jerks who should've been taking care of their own.

They're all despicable and selfish for putting their own interests over the welfare of sick and scared babies.[/quote]

Yes & time that someone from an agency like Social Services who are supposed to protect children bloodywell stood up & said this instead of approving their actions by their silence!

[thentherewere4]

If it's of any interest Murat sat in on Websters testimony with the PJ.His lawyer said this is the only police interview that he sat in on, he wasn't in the same room as Pennington and the nannies when they gave their statements to the PJ.
I wonder why he sat in on this particular interview and none of the nannies ?
Language was not a problem,the inspector said he was able to understand the nannies (accent not vocabulary)perfectly and Murats services as translator were therefor not required.Dianne Webster is from the Midlands and as such I would have thought that her pronunciation would be more easy to follow than the agitated mockney/estuary that the nannies would have spoken.
As the inspector had no need of an interpretor for the nannies why suddenly did he feel the need to have Murat translate for this educated slower speaking older woman ?
Did Murat have an agenda ?

[thentherewere4]

Maybe Gerry did bruise her arm when she returned to the Tapas Bar to tell him maddie was missing. He grabbed her arm to calm her or stop her from moving so he could get more info from her. I would image she was probably histerical when she returned to the Bar and screamed what she scream and started to run back to the room.

This is JMO

1."He grabbed her arm to calm her or stop her from moving so he could get more info from her....."
1.He grabbed her arm to restrain her from telling the world what had really happened.

2."I would image she was probably hysterical when she returned to the Bar and screamed what she scream and started to run back to the room".
2. No one has described Kate as being hysterical on that night.