The priest in Praia de Luz

[englishleigh]

Has this been discussed? :eek:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/posts/view/15770

MADDIE PRIEST HAS VANISHED

THE “tormented” priest who detectives think Kate McCann may have confessed to was missing last night.

Father Jose Pacheco, 46, has not been seen since it was revealed police plan to put pressure on him to break his Catholic vow of silence.

Worried members of his flock in the Algarve resort of Praia da Luz said they have not seen him at his tiny hillside chapel for four days.....

[STEADFAST]

That's very interesting! Why would he be "troubled" or "tormented" about being questioned about any of Kate's confessions or confidences unless they were incriminating? I would think he could just refuse to reveal anything she said. His conscience should be completely clear, unless he thinks maybe there is something he should tell.

[Rino]

He may be tormented if indeed they confessed the worst - her death- and then continue to make a mockery of the event with the global "search"

[Barnaby]

A catholic priest cannot divulge anything that is told to him in confession no matter what pressures are put on him. Definitely seems weird that he is tormented & troubled. He did give them the keys of the church which apparently the Bishop was very displeased about.

I always found it strange that as catholics they forged a more friendly relationship with the anglican minister & that the catholic priest more or less disappeared from their lives in the latter days & was not there to say goodbye. It would seem that something soured the relationship!

[april4sky]

I wouldn't get too excited about this yet. The daily Star is a real "RAG" tabloid.

More like the Enquirer than the Enquirer!!!

[englishleigh]

That's very interesting! Why would he be "troubled" or "tormented" about being questioned about any of Kate's confessions or confidences unless they were incriminating? I would think he could just refuse to reveal anything she said. His conscience should be completely clear, unless he thinks maybe there is something he should tell.

A Catholic priest is BOUND by the "seal of the confessional" to never reveal what has been said to him in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, or Confession.
He is supposed to be held in contempt, go to prison, whatever, rather than EVER tell what they have been told in Confession.

[STEADFAST]

A Catholic priest is BOUND by the "seal of the confessional" to never reveal what has been said to him in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, or Confession.
He is supposed to be held in contempt, go to prison, whatever, rather than EVER tell what they have been told in Confession.

That's why it's interesting to me that he's "tormented."

[Rino]

A Catholic priest is BOUND by the "seal of the confessional" to never reveal what has been said to him in the Sacrament of Reconciliation, or Confession.
He is supposed to be held in contempt, go to prison, whatever, rather than EVER tell what they have been told in Confession.
Not if he beleives others may come to harm, in this case the twins...

[englishleigh]

Not if he beleives others may come to harm, in this case the twins...

Perhaps Kate confessed to an "accident" so he doesn't believe that the twins are in danger.

I've never heard that, though, that they would tell even if others might be in danger...from what I've been told in RCIA (classes for converts) class and by a good friend of mine who is a priest (and who I once accused of telling someone something I'd confessed, I made an assumption I should not have), they can NEVER EVER tell anything...they are supposed to surrender to death first. My friend was very very upset that I thought he would have done that.

[teddiebear1955]

That's why it's interesting to me that he's "tormented."

:twocents: JMO but i think the priest knows something for sure....after all he gave them keys to the church ...WHY ? oh yea so they could get in anytime they wanted too .then it was reported that the new priest showed up like 3 days later ..and now the first priest is missing .....????????????:waitasec:

makes me think they are guilty and the priest knows ....JMO

[Rino]

Perhaps Kate confessed to an "accident" so he doesn't believe that the twins are in danger.

I've never heard that, though, that they would tell even if others might be in danger...from what I've been told in RCIA (classes for converts) class and by a good friend of mine who is a priest (and who I once accused of telling someone something I'd confessed, I made an assumption I should not have), they can NEVER EVER tell anything...they are supposed to surrender to death first. My friend was very very upset that I thought he would have done that.
If it was a formal confession, he would not be able to say a word and remain in the church, your right. But legally nothing would happen.

But being human, I can see him being tormented with the knowledge and the following charade.

[englishleigh]

If it was a formal confession, he would not be able to say a word and remain in the church, your right. But legally nothing would happen.

But being human, I can see him being tormented with the knowledge and the following charade.

Maybe nothing legally would happen in Portugal, but there have been cases in the US of priests being arrested for contempt of court when they refused to divulge information told to them in the confessional.

[lizziedripping]

I wouldn't get too excited about this yet. The daily Star is a real "RAG" tabloid.

More like the Enquirer than the Enquirer!!!

You're exactly right april, I wouldn't even use this RAG as toilet paper it's that contaminated and full of $hit already!!! :D

[april4sky]

You're exactly right april, I wouldn't even use this RAG as toilet paper it's that contaminated and full of $hit already!!! :D
Yes lizzie. We know "Cr#p" when we see it. :D

[AfterMidnight]

Twelve aliens land ship in Portugal to hunt for Madeleine.

You mean THAT kind of rag?

[colomom]

Yes lizzie. We know "Cr#p" when we see it. :D

Maybe this would be a more legitimate source:

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=10413

Portuguese priest is pulled into Madeline McCann investigation

[colomom]

This could be a bit on the "rag" side...from the looks of it:

http://www.dailysnack.com/news_article.html?fSKU=7809

I’ll take McCann secrets to the grave

What secrets?

[colomom]

One more....

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070919/29363_Police_May_Interview_Portuguese_Priests_in_M issing_Madeleine_Probe.htm

Police May Interview Portuguese Priests in Missing Madeleine Probe

[Rino]

Maybe nothing legally would happen in Portugal, but there have been cases in the US of priests being arrested for contempt of court when they refused to divulge information told to them in the confessional.
I'm tired this morning.... I thought someone meant he could get in legal trouble for talking :bang:

[april4sky]

One more....

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20070919/29363_Police_May_Interview_Portuguese_Priests_in_M issing_Madeleine_Probe.htm

Police May Interview Portuguese Priests in Missing Madeleine Probe

From this article.


Over the past week, Portuguese newspapers have speculated that the priests "received information in confession" from the McCanns which could help police in their investigations. However, the claims were not sourced.

Sounds to me that the PLE have been "leaking" again.

[iNTERESTEDWOMAN]

A guy I know who attends AA meetings told me that there are a couple priests in his Tuesday night meeting who talk about confessions. He says some confession make the priest want to have a drink...Now, they don't say WHO confessed what, just WHAT they confessed. LOL

[Morag]

...(snip)http://www.dailysnack.com/news_article.html?fSKU=7809

I’ll take McCann secrets to the grave

What secrets?

Maybe he didn't have any secrets:

But since the finger of suspicion was pointed at the McCanns, a friend said Father Pacheco had been left feeling "confused" about the couple.

If they had confessed to him, then he shouldn't have been surprised...Maybe what they actually told him was pretty similar to what they have said in public. When the finger pointed, he began to put two and two together.

Father Pacheco is said to have been ticked off by Bishop Manuel Quintas for giving the McCanns the keys to his chapel

I ask myself, why would the Bishop object to giving the keys to a high-profile, very well-connected, Catholic couple who truly needed shelter from the storm in which they found themselves? Heck, I would have given them the keys to my house if I believed in them. Did the Bishop believe their story?

From another story:
But when the finger of suspicion was pointed at the McCanns and they left for Britain last week, they did not say goodbye and handed the church keys to an Anglican priest.

This has been spun as the ingrate McCanns being rude to their benefactor. Maybe Father Pacheco was avoiding them. He had already been reprimanded by his boss, the press was salivating over him, and he felt 'confused' about the couple.



(Love the DailySnack name)

[Texana]

Thanks for those links, Colomom.

Good points, Morag.

I've been wondering about that priest for awhil, especially with the switch to the Anglican priest--although he might have just been taking over for the duties for the priest--again, for what reason? Sometimes there are reciprocal agreements for, say, Lutheran/Episcopal priests to relieve each other in smaller areas, but I don't know if that would apply here.

[Dr. Creepin]

He turned up after a while, said he was attending to other parishes.

[philamena]

I wouldn't get too excited about this yet. The daily Star is a real "RAG" tabloid.

More like the Enquirer than the Enquirer!!!

april4sky,
You have that right. The Star is one of the worst rag mags in print. I have a UK friend who swears it's the worst she's ever read.

Still think I'll do research about the Priest. Interesting to find out if he's really is missing.

[englishleigh]

I'm tired this morning.... I thought someone meant he could get in legal trouble for talking :bang:

Not legal trouble, but he could get into trouble with his bishop, possibly even "defrocked".

[Texana]

Priests don't really disappear, they just get reassigned.

:innocent:

[sleuthin4fun]

Priest or not, vows or not, I think if he was confessed to he has an obligation to tell. If I were him I wouldn't worry about the bishop or the pope it's Jesus he will answer to.

[Texana]

Priest or not, vows or not, I think if he was confessed to he has an obligation to tell. If I were him I wouldn't worry about the bishop or the pope it's Jesus he will answer to.

But he really can't break the seal of the confessional, it's sacred. I'll confess myself I don't entirely understand the logic of letting a criminal go free, but they feel they are administering heavenly forgiveness, not earthly consequences. Apples and oranges, to them.

[Salem]

But he really can't break the seal of the confessional, it's sacred. I'll confess myself I don't entirely understand the logic of letting a criminal go free, but they feel they are administering heavenly forgiveness, not earthly consequences. Apples and oranges, to them.

Ahhhhhh...... but a few choice words, with a few well placed pauses, and he never said a word.........:innocent:

Salem

[Trino]

Surely, this man has a conscience. What about the twins? Wouldn't he be worried about them?

[englishleigh]

If he knows something, he cannot tell himself, but he could privately persuade the confessor to turn him/herself in and face the consequences.

[sleuthin4fun]

But he really can't break the seal of the confessional, it's sacred. I'll confess myself I don't entirely understand the logic of letting a criminal go free, but they feel they are administering heavenly forgiveness, not earthly consequences. Apples and oranges, to them.

I'll tell you, I was raised catholic but am no longer. I guess I don't care if he took a vow or not, doesn't matter to me. He needs to tell what he knows if he actually does know anything. I guess in my opinion , confessing your sins and asking for forgiveness are two different things. Just because you confess something does not mean your sorry it just means you know you did something wrong. I guess I feel that if they are guilty and don't confess and people continue to believe in their innocence then they may have earthly forgiveness with heavenly consequences and in the end whoever is responsible will be held accountable!

[wtsn5]

My daughter just had her first communion - which is the first time they actually confess their sins to the priest. The priest informed the kids and parents that whatever you confess is sacred except for murder or if you plan to harm yourself or others. Then by law they must go to the police. So if they had confessed murder I believe the priest at least in Canada would be required to go to the police.

[englishleigh]

My daughter just had her first communion - which is the first time they actually confess their sins to the priest. The priest informed the kids and parents that whatever you confess is sacred except for murder or if you plan to harm yourself or others. Then by law they must go to the police. So if they had confessed murder I believe the priest at least in Canada would be required to go to the police.

I was told the exact opposite by more than one priest at different times in my life...they cannot even tell if someone confesses to murder.

[wtsn5]

I was told the exact opposite by more than one priest at different times in my life...they cannot even tell if someone confesses to murder.


Well I'm not sure if that is the way it is in all countries but the priest and his cardinal was with him when he made that statement. So at least in Canada or in my parish that is the way it is. I was shocked when he made the statement because I was taught everything you confess is sacred but I guess the Roman Catholic Church is a changing. Maybe after all the scandals they want to protect themselves. Not sure.

[Brefie]

I was told the exact opposite by more than one priest at different times in my life...they cannot even tell if someone confesses to murder.

I thought this also.

wtsn5...interesting thought on protecting themselves. Although, you would think they would start by disrobing or at LEAST investigating those who are accused of abuse. Since they appear to just move the culprits on, making no sense at all, it's hard to tell WHAT else they would do to protect themselves.

[Rino]

But he really can't break the seal of the confessional, it's sacred. I'll confess myself I don't entirely understand the logic of letting a criminal go free, but they feel they are administering heavenly forgiveness, not earthly consequences. Apples and oranges, to them.
Its called job security.

[hcc2007]

Surely, this man has a conscience. What about the twins? Wouldn't he be worried about them?

My mom was Catholic so I can say this (I hope) without being off-base:

The Catholic Church has shown by their behavior with regard to child sexual abuse that they have no conscience. To a protestant (which is how I was raised), it's very weird that you can do any awful thing and if you simply confess it, you're ok with God. Wow, that seems like free license.

Remember, too, that the Catholic Church's stance on birth control means they are just fine with overpopulation, poverty, and suffering here on earth. I think it's because they figure this life is just a prelude to a better one afterward. So it's ok to suffer.

[Brefie]

My mom was Catholic so I can say this (I hope) without being off-base:

The Catholic Church has shown by their behavior with regard to child sexual abuse that they have no conscience. To a protestant (which is how I was raised), it's very weird that you can do any awful thing and if you simply confess it, you're ok with God. Wow, that seems like free license.

Remember, too, that the Catholic Church's stance on birth control means they are just fine with overpopulation, poverty, and suffering here on earth. I think it's because they figure this life is just a prelude to a better one afterward. So it's ok to suffer.

Well, I believe you are suppose to repent and truly be sorry, but I get your point. I am Catholic (somewhat - not practicing) but neither of us has time for the million things about the church that I cannot bear. Suffice to say that I have been married 3 years and we do not have children by choice.

[CaliKid]

It sounds as if the priest had his feelings hurt. I'm not dismissing this- we are all human. But he put himself out on a limb, maybe unknowingly, by offering the key to the church to the McCanns, and then his bishop chastised him for doing so. It also sounds as if the McCanns just up and left Portugal without saying goodbye or thank you to him at all. It makes me wonder if they wanted to distance themselves from being given special privileges in the church.

[colomom]

Couple of thoughts:

I did Google: Vatican position on confession

Man, that was confusing. The one thing that I did see is that due to the sex abuse scandals it seems that priests are required to report information received even in confession. Is that right?

Also, if Father Pacheco did not hear a incriminating confession from the McCanns, why doesn't he just say so? Instead of "I will take their secrets to the grave" why not "No, they did not confess to involvement in their daughters death". This part bugs me....

[Texana]

Couple of thoughts:

I did Google: Vatican position on confession

Man, that was confusing. The one thing that I did see is that due to the sex abuse scandals it seems that priests are required to report information received even in confession. Is that right?

Also, if Father Pacheco did not hear a incriminating confession from the McCanns, why doesn't he just say so? Instead of "I will take their secrets to the grave" why not "No, they did not confess to involvement in their daughters death". This part bugs me....

I think the priests can't reveal boo about the confessions (and I have no idea what that idiom means, it just sounds good.) Not what was said but even what was left unsaid...Because no one would feel they could trust their priest after that.

[poco]

Priests don't really disappear, they just get reassigned.

:innocent:

Don't we all.....????

[Texana]

Don't we all.....????

In a manner of speaking, yes! :D