Police Look For Girl, Man In Sex Tape - Thread No. 2

[Jeana (DP)]

Please continue here. Do NOT QUOTE huge posts or PHOTOS to reply to. Please edit them down. Thanks.

[christine2448]

Thanks Jeana!

[KOOL LOOK]

Please continue here. Do NOT QUOTE huge posts or PHOTOS to reply to. Please edit them down. Thanks.

You taught me how to edit down quoted posts, but how do you edit down photos? It's probably too complicated for me though, but thanks for teaching me about the other, it wasn't hard at all.

[Taximom]

KOOL LOOK, I think you can delete pics as well from quoted comments. Resizing though, is something I don't know how to do here effectively.

[Taximom]

RE: Turk finding the tape in the desert. If someone can give me a timeframe for when that might be, I'll look up the weather info. I'm thinking at least 6 mos ago, if I'm reading the news accounts correctly.

I just read that March 2007 happened to be the wettest March in a long time there. Hmph.

[Jeana (DP)]

You taught me how to edit down quoted posts, but how do you edit down photos? It's probably too complicated for me though, but thanks for teaching me about the other, it wasn't hard at all.

I honestly don't think the photos need to be posted and reposted several times. We can simply refer them to the post number. Thanks.

[MsRusty]

Do we know if LE has thoroughly investigated Tuck's background? Such as searching his home, looking at his computer, etc. He may not be in the video but perhaps he has an interest in child porn and a connection can be made to the original owner of the tape.

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

I have a myspace account but unfortunatley I cannot access it here at work. When I get home I will send her an IM, just tell her that I liked one of her hero's or whatever she listed on her profile. I will keep you guys up to date on what I can find. Also I have tried to run background checks on Darren and Darrin tuck but I'm not comming up with anything in the 25-27 range. But that is strange because someon posted a link to a charge for him. Soooooooo off to continue looking for Mr.Tuck!

(Also, the "friend" said he was trying to do the right thing, think he may have wanted to try that 5 months ago when he actually GOT the tape!)

[georgiagirl]

I have found a Darrin Tuck age 26 who lived in Amarillo, TX at one time. There is also a NV Darrin Tuck age 49, obviously not him.

[tiredblondy]

[quote=Taximom;1700975]RE: Turk finding the tape in the desert. If someone can give me a timeframe for when that might be,

I'm suspecting if he really found that in the desert it was a drop site or he had to accidently come up on it right after it was left. I'm sure the police have a good idea what happened.

[swanniee11]

Can someone tell me what is ontop of the tv? Looks the a movie "ghost" not sure, looking for other things in the room if all of you who are awesome with blowing these pics up can see anything. Thanks

[Taximom]

[quote=Taximom;1700975]RE: Turk finding the tape in the desert. If someone can give me a timeframe for when that might be,

I'm suspecting if he really found that in the desert it was a drop site or he had to accidently come up on it right after it was left. I'm sure the police have a good idea what happened.

Oh, I don't think anyone here (or LE) believes his desert story. Some of us were just wondering what the weather is like to further prove his story wrong.

He probably found it in wrapped in plastic or a cooler, right?! :p

[Indy Gal]

Dang it guys I just woke up.....Have I missed anything??

[swanniee11]

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/14207862/detail.html

[KOOL LOOK]

I have a myspace account but unfortunatley I cannot access it here at work. When I get home I will send her an IM, just tell her that I liked one of her hero's or whatever she listed on her profile. I will keep you guys up to date on what I can find. Also I have tried to run background checks on Darren and Darrin tuck but I'm not comming up with anything in the 25-27 range. But that is strange because someon posted a link to a charge for him. Soooooooo off to continue looking for Mr.Tuck!

(Also, the "friend" said he was trying to do the right thing, think he may have wanted to try that 5 months ago when he actually GOT the tape!)

Good idea, befriend her, she seems reasonable so far. Maybe she will even talk with us, who knows. Can't hurt anything, because this is an investigation unlike others that are close to the vest. LE is asking for help and putting it out there in the public. We may can even tell her we're good at locating people and have good clues as to timing, clothing etc... and we need the tiniest amounts of information she may have.

She knows Tucks friends, all kinds of clues could be there.

[Lola]

http://www.kvbc.com/Global/story.asp?S=7128548

snip ...That tape was allegedly found by Pahrump resident Darrin Tuck, who claims he came across the tape in the desert and turned it into police. "His story doesn't match," Detective Boruchowitz explains. "A reasonable person would not believe the story that he's given us. But again, he's not providing anything additional so we just have what we have to work with."

The Nye County Sheriff's Office released Darrin Tuck on his own recognizance, but not before charging him with possession of child pornography as well as promoting child porn by allegedly showing that tape to other people.

"I hope that there's nothing to it because I hate to see anybody get in trouble," Pahrump resident Clarine Shipp said. Shipp lives across the street from Tuck's stepmother. She say she hopes Darrin is not involved and simply found the tape like he said.

Police say Darrin had the tape for at least five months, but add he's no longer cooperating with their investigation.

[Indy Gal]

Hey guys does anyone have a link to the presser? Also it is noon here is it safe to say presser here would be at 1:30 my time 1130 LV time?

[KOOL LOOK]

where are the new pictures? The detective Christine spoke with is the one conducting all the interviews. The articles say their hoping the new released photos will help pinpoint a location. We can locate this perp and patience is we continue to push it, get it nationwide, he can't hide forever.

[Taximom]

I think it will be 12:30 e.s.t. Surely some online news site will carry the PC! I haven't looked yet, but hope to find one in case FOX or CNN don't show the PC.

I'm getting server busy msgs with WS. Should we go to chat if it goes down when the PC happens?!

[Indy Gal]

Yes I am in chat now. Maybe just log in so if we go down we can just bounce over there. Here is the link again that christine posted yesterday.

http://www.stormdancing.net/network/java/chat1.html

[MsPooh]

hi everyone..again :)
I have been looking at all of these pictures for so long it's like someone here said earlier "they are going to start moving by themselves"....
IMHO unless a few ghosts or spirits used this filming opprotunity to have their 5 minutes of fame...I am thinking there is more than one individual with "Patience"...and it seems like I have read somewhere that LE is looking for "another: POI..maybe they just meant besides Tuck, but I really believe there is more than one "POS"

[swanniee11]

I agree, from what I can tell there are 2 people in the room with her. I want to see these new photos they are supposed to put out. Maybe we can see something different in them. I"m also studing the pics to see other things in the room such as what is on/top of the tv etc. Are there any toys in the room etc, etc.

[Indy Gal]

while i could be wrong as always this is the site i have open hoping for PC. Maybe if someone would look at different ones that way we dont miss it.

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=7127939

[Cherlee]

ya'll have to check this guy out!


http://www.icrimewatch.net/offenderdetails.php?OfndrID=587749&AgencyID=54122

[CaliKid]

Unfortunately there's no way to even know whether this was a locally-made tape or not. The video could be from anywhere and lost out of someone's car.

[SieSie]

Still catching up on Thread 1, but wanted to comment on
itsreenw's post #801 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1700605&postcount=801) where she outlined the guy. Don't want to quote more photos, especially since I'm adding one, but wanted to add to itsreenw that I see the exact same thing she does, and had even just finished doing my own outline, which is exactly like hers....
http://i22.tinypic.com/53mt1u.jpg

[Taximom]

So far nobody on cable covering the PC live, if they are having it now. 11:30 c.s.t.

[SeriouslySearching]

YES, SIESIE! That is it! It is exactly what I see, too! WTG!

[Lola]

Taxi mom, Nevada is in the Pacific Time Zone...two more hours til it's 11:30 am out there.

[cheko1]

You all have been very busy in here! I am just catching up......
I agree with everyone else I sure see someone.

[swanniee11]

they just had something on msnbc, not a pc but an X agent saying that they will go though the tape frame by frame to see what else they can come up with. Still waiting for the pc.

[lizzybeth]

ya'll have to check this guy out!


http://www.icrimewatch.net/offenderdetails.php?OfndrID=587749&AgencyID=54122


I've been following this case since it was reported. I haven't posted because I'm just sitting here amazed at how good you guys are. I can't get my work done for worrying about this little girl.

Cherlee, without looking at them side by side it could be a possibility. I did notice that he has somewhat of a unibrow. Those hairs might be what someone mentioned seeing in the video picture (that some said could be mole, zit, etc.).

[Taximom]

Taxi mom, Nevada is in the Pacific Time Zone...two more hours til it's 11:30 am out there.

Thank you SO much, Lola! :blowkiss:

[Tom'sGirl]

From viewing a video this morning earlier I was able to see the address of where Darren Tuck's step mother lives and do have the street name. Of course it doen't mean he lived there, but may have stayed there on and off.

Looking forward to what we may see when they realease further photos later this morning.

[LTUlegal]

Okay, friends...don't flame me on this, but you've worked so hard on that tv screen, how do we know it's a reflection and not just something that's on the tv? As in, a movie?
(ducking for tomatoes)

[Cherlee]

Cherlee, without looking at them side by side it could be a possibility. I did notice that he has somewhat of a unibrow. Those hairs might be what someone mentioned seeing in the video picture (that some said could be mole, zit, etc.).[/quote]


That is one of the things that caught my eye to...I wish I could save the pic off that site and inlarge it, but it won't let me.

[SeriouslySearching]

Police Look For Girl, Man In Sex Tape (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53845) <<First Thread!

[MsRusty]

LTUlega, I don't think we can know for sure if it is a reflection or something being shown on TV. I know at the begining we were thinking it was a comp screen with the fish screensaver. (Me personally, I thought maybe NEMO was showing. It took me forever to "see" the image that we now believe it to be.
I hope the new pics LE will be releasing gives us something more to work with.

[lviola]

I have a myspace account but unfortunatley I cannot access it here at work. When I get home I will send her an IM, just tell her that I liked one of her hero's or whatever she listed on her profile. I will keep you guys up to date on what I can find. Also I have tried to run background checks on Darren and Darrin tuck but I'm not comming up with anything in the 25-27 range. But that is strange because someon posted a link to a charge for him. Soooooooo off to continue looking for Mr.Tuck!

(Also, the "friend" said he was trying to do the right thing, think he may have wanted to try that 5 months ago when he actually GOT the tape!)

I have a myspace and sent her a request however she has not been on since June 07.

[SieSie]

I honestly don't think the photos need to be posted and reposted several times. We can simply refer them to the post number. Thanks.
I agree and feel bad because I've been posting a lot of pictures, but feel they're very helpful. Could we start a thread for JUST photos, so they are all easily accessible without having to wade through 20+ pages of discussion? Maybe title it "Patience Photos" or something?? I don't want to do it without permission. :innocent:

[LTUlegal]

LTUlega, I don't think we can know for sure if it is a reflection or something being shown on TV. I know at the begining we were thinking it was a comp screen with the fish screensaver. (Me personally, I thought maybe NEMO was showing. It took me forever to "see" the image that we now believe it to be.
I hope the new pics LE will be releasing gives us something more to work with.


I'm really having a hard time seeing what everyone else sees, so I really am looking forward (?) to the release of more pics. Thanks for understanding me! :o

[Tom'sGirl]

I agree and feel bad because I've been posting a lot of pictures, but feel they're very helpful. Could we start a thread for JUST photos, so they are all easily accessible without having to wade through 20+ pages of discussion? Maybe title it "Patience Photos" or something?? I don't want to do it without permission. :innocent:

IF this does get it's own Forum, then additional links can be added.

[MsRusty]

Well don't feel bad about not being able to see the image. Post #801 on the first thread has a pic of the image with a diagram pointing out what's what. But again, even if we think we're seeing the image of a man, we can't really be sure.

[Squishified]

I'm really having a hard time seeing what everyone else sees, so I really am looking forward (?) to the release of more pics. Thanks for understanding me! :o
Me, too. I can't make out anything in the pics. But that's just me.
This is my first post on this thread, but I have read every post.
Y'all are doing EXCELLENT work. If there's anything I can do, let me know. I'm at home monitering the Spector trial (will they ever come back with a verdict?)

[tiredblondy]

[quote=LTUlegal;1701211]I'm really having a hard time seeing what everyone else sees

It helps me to back away from the computer screen or move it around to different angles.I can definitely see the out line better of that person.

[SeriouslySearching]

Or squint! >wink<

[philamena]

Do we know if LE has thoroughly investigated Tuck's background? .....

Hi MsRusty,
We certainly don't know how or what LE is investigating as far as Tuck goes, but I'd venture to guess they are going over him, his friends, his job, home, etc with a fine tooth comb. On Fox Monday the Nevada LE officer said that Tuck had no prior arrests. Hope that helps.

[Wrinkles]

Hiya Peoples,

I caught this story in another thread which had this picture: (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298016,00.html)

I'm struggling...and can't connect the dots.

Check out the dress on this girl... See the folds for the bosom? When was the last time you saw a 4 or 5 year old with a bosom big enough to place folds or dips in that type of dress?

Check out the fingers/fingertips of this girl, even the way the hands/fingers are positioned, these almost don't appear like any child's I have seen but perhaps those of a teen or adult with some type of genetic issue.

Look at the girls neck muscles... These don't appear like those in children I've seen, these seem well developed over a long period of time.

Is this really a child or is this possibly a dwarf of adolescent or age of majority that may, originally, have the facial look of a child?

I don't know what went on in the video that apparently showed a rape, I don't know if a voice could be heard or whatever, this could change everything... I'm just struggling with this photo.

IF this was a child (or even an adolescent or otherwise) and they were violated, I hope that someone is all over this. I just thought I would point out some musings.

Wrinkles

PS. That seems like a fairly distinctive piece of furniture. I wonder if anyone can recognize it, who built it, where it was sold. The TV is probably fairly recognizable as well.

[SuziQ]

There is a new video on KTNV titled "Nye County Police to release new info on case of missing girl". In the video the reporter say Nye county police say that new pictures of the girl have surfaced and more details will be released that the press conference.

Does that mean other pics that are seperate from the video?

http://www.ktnv.com/

[Squishified]

Hey Wrinkles,
The TV was identified on the first thread (there's a pic as well)
I actually own the same TV. I can't remember where we got it (may have been WalMart or Sam's Club).

[christine2448]

Hiya Peoples,

Is this really a child or is this possibly a dwarf of adolescent or age of majority that may, originally, have the facial look of a child?

PS. That seems like a fairly distinctive piece of furniture. I wonder if anyone can recognize it, who built it, where it was sold. The TV is probably fairly recognizable as well.


hiya Wrinkles!

I know there is lots to read through, and this subject has been discussed, many more pointed out exactly what you are saying..doing remember the conclusion, you'd have to read back.

Also, we sent off to det what we thought the brand of TV to be and also the nighty.

The armoire, I think we brought it up, but not sure we ever got 'serious' about it?

[Indy Gal]

There is a new video on KTNV titled "Nye County Police to release new info on case of missing girl". In the video the reporter say Nye county police say that new pictures of the girl have surfaced and more details will be released that the press conference.

Does that mean other pics that are seperate from the video?

http://www.ktnv.com/
That is how I read it too. OMG what are we getting into here

[tiredblondy]

It's 1:45 here in the east. Anyone hear anything about the press conference yet?

[2XL]

WRINKLES i agree with you. The neck and the hands are what I focused on first, especially the neck. Rape is rape regardless of the victim, but I just pray this is not a baby.

[Wrinkles]

Hiya Folks,

Thanks for responding... I thought I had read up, but now realize I missed a thread. I'll hunt for it. In the meanwhile, does anyone have a link to it?

Wrinkles :blushing:

[Tom'sGirl]

Hiya Peoples,

Check out the dress on this girl... See the folds for the bosom? When was the last time you saw a 4 or 5 year old with a bosom big enough to place folds or dips in that type of dress?

Check out the fingers/fingertips of this girl, even the way the hands/fingers are positioned, these almost don't appear like any child's I have seen but perhaps those of a teen or adult with some type of genetic issue.

Look at the girls neck muscles... These don't appear like those in children I've seen, these seem well developed over a long period of time.

Is this really a child or is this possibly a dwarf of adolescent or age of majority that may, originally, have the facial look of a child?


Wrinkles all of this was discussed on the first thread. I stated here I did not think she was a child, I may have opened a can of worms, but "oh well"
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1698232&postcount=183

[SuziQ]

Hey Wrinkles,
The TV was identified on the first thread (there's a pic as well)
I actually own the same TV. I can't remember where we got it (may have been WalMart or Sam's Club).

Not trying to stir up a hornets nest. I could be remembering your pic incorrectly. But IIRC, your TV is black and the one in the pic/video is silver. Your tv has a curved screen and the one in the pic/video is a flat screen. Curved screens just don't reflect as clearly as the one in the pic/video. It actually looks like an RCA model I had that I just recently sold.

[Reannan]

I think the little girl looks odd because of the gown being too big, which makes her seem out of proportion, and because of the stiffness to her posture that the still shot captured. Her shoulders are hunched up which makes her neck look odd, and the front of her throat looks unusual because she is very tense. Try to tense your muscles as if you are scared all over, then raise your shoulders, and place your hands roughly in the position she is standing in. I believe the photo is captured a few frames before she lifts the nightgown up. Also, check out this link. It is the same picture, but it seems a LOT clearer to me. Strange.....
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298016,00.html

[Tom'sGirl]

Hiya Folks,

Thanks for responding... I thought I had read up, but now realize I missed a thread. I'll hunt for it. In the meanwhile, does anyone have a link to it?

Wrinkles :blushing:

What thread do you mean, part 1? http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53845

[Squishified]

Not trying to stir up a hornets nest. I could be remembering your pic incorrectly. But IIRC, your TV is black and the one in the pic/video is silver. Your tv has a curved screen and the one in the pic/video is a flat screen. Curved screens just don't reflect as clearly as the one in the pic/video. It actually looks like an RCA model I had that I just recently sold.
SuziQ,
It wasn't my picture. Somebody else posted it. I will take a closer look at the photo of the girl and my actual TV.

[Indy Gal]

Anyone have a link to whee the pc will be??? Was it a half hour ago or is it in a half hour....LOLOLOL

[Tom'sGirl]

I think the little girl looks odd because of the gown being too big, which makes her seem out of proportion, and because of the stiffness to her posture that the still shot captured. Her shoulders are hunched up which makes her neck look odd, and the front of her throat looks unusual because she is very tense. Try to tense your muscles as if you are scared all over, then raise your shoulders, and place your hands roughly in the position she is standing in. I believe the photo is captured a few frames before she lifts the nightgown up. Also, check out this link. It is the same picture, but it seems a LOT clearer to me. Strange.....
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,298016,00.html

It clearer because it hasn't been enlarged Reannan. This photo was posted as in your link on thread No.1.

Many of the photos are distorted due to trying to enlarge them too much. I don't think she was holding up her top/whatever it was, but rather holding something in her hand in an awkward back hand way.

[philamena]

..... but I just pray this is not a baby.

2XL,
Hi,
IMO,there is no doubt that this is a little girl. The Nevada LE officer who's spoke on air about this case for the past 2 days, said she is a little girl who's been repeatedly raped and sexually abused. go to this link...police say she's 4 or 5 years old. http://www.ktnv.com/Global/category.asp?C=81457&nav=menu498_1

I think her hand size is distorted due to the film quality or the movement in the film.
I see a little girl, a toddler, who's lost her innocence. A little girl who's (from police reports) been sexually abused. I see other abuse. She imo looks like her right nostril is bleeding. I think her nose has possibly been broken. She HAS TO BE FOUND. PRAY FOLKS!!!

[Squishified]

Okay--I just checked my TV. It is silver. Brand Apex Size 20"

The screen is slightly curved, but reflects like heck! I could see the reflection of one of my cats clearly.

[Tom'sGirl]

Anyone have a link to whee the pc will be??? Was it a half hour ago or is it in a half hour....LOLOLOL

It's only 10:56 out here Indy, don't expect anything yet until maybe 11:30 or ?

[SewingDeb]

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=7127939&nav=menu102_2

Watch live streaming video of the Nye County Sheriff's news conference starting at 11:30 a.m. regarding the unidentified exploited girl.

[christine2448]

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=7127939&nav=menu102_2

Watch live streaming video of the Nye County Sheriff's news conference starting at 11:30 a.m. regarding the unidentified exploited girl.

Can someone please tell us while it's on what's up, I can't watch at work :(

[Tom'sGirl]

Can someone please tell us while it's on what's up, I can't watch at work :(

Will try sweets, but I will be watching it on my computer, but will try if I'm here.............

[LTUlegal]

Can someone please tell us while it's on what's up, I can't watch at work :(

Me too, and now I have to leave for a meeting...wouldn't you know it?! ACH!

[Squishified]

Are any major news networks going to show the Press Conference?
If it's on TV I'll be able to report what they're saying.

[Tom'sGirl]

Are any major news networks going to show the Press Conference?
If it's on TV I'll be able to report what they're saying.

I serioulsy doubt it, but many will probably carry the story and the presser on their late afternoon news.

[Squishified]

I serioulsy doubt it, but many will probably carry the story and the presser on their late afternoon news.
I've got Fox News on now, just in case.

[Indy Gal]

It's only 10:56 out here Indy, don't expect anything yet until maybe 11:30 or ?

http://www.lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=7127939&nav=menu102_2

Watch live streaming video of the Nye County Sheriff's news conference starting at 11:30 a.m. regarding the unidentified exploited girl.
YOu ladies are awesome, Thanks!:blowkiss:

[SewingDeb]

Will that be at 2:30 Eastern Standard Time? If so, it's not far off.

[SuziQ]

SuziQ,
It wasn't my picture. Somebody else posted it. I will take a closer look at the photo of the girl and my actual TV.

I getcha now. It does look like an APEX.

[Indy Gal]

Can someone please tell us while it's on what's up, I can't watch at work :(
I will try but maybe we should elect one person to do it so we all are not posting over each other......anyone or should I ?????

[Tom'sGirl]

I've got Fox News on now, just in case.

I left a phone message for one of my friends in LV to check her local TV news, hope she is able to get back to me...........dang, she doesn't do the "internet thing"

[Indy Gal]

I left a phone message for one of my friends in LV to check her local TV news, hope she is able to get back to me...........dang, she doesn't do the "internet thing"
These people still exsist?? Thanks for trying TG

[Tom'sGirl]

I will try but maybe we should elect one person to do it so we all are not posting over each other......anyone or should I ?????

I won't hurt if anyone is watching to post, some pick up more of what's said than others so if we put it all together it should be fairly accurate.

[Squishified]

I getcha now. It does look like an APEX.
I wish I could post a photo of my TV, but I don't know how.
My husband will kill me if I try. I broke our monitor last week, so I'm not playing around with the computer any more!

[SewingDeb]

Thanks Indy!

[philamena]

CHRISTINE,.....
hey! LOL The news conference will begin at 2:30pm EST, 11:30am left coast time. ;)

[Indy Gal]

Who is our BEST reporter here right now. I will do it but I am often missing things so I may not be the best for the job!

YW SD

Quick Bathroom breaks and refills now, we have 15 minutes until PC

[tiredblondy]

FBI talking on MSNBC about it right now

[dee10134]

Based off of the reflection on the TV, here is how I believe the room was set up. I'll blow up the clear photo of the little girl. I'm certain I can retain it's clarity when I blow it up. I'll post that in a second.

http://a224.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/108/l_2384be83f17d8bd2bdb761ba2089b6c7.jpg

[tiredblondy]

Not the presser just comments..pretty good

[Indy Gal]

Great job DEE!!! I am glad you joned WS!! Keep up the good work!

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

Ok so the idea of Patience not being a child keeps being brought up. Would the FBI and the special task forces on this case not be able to tell the difference? If it were just a couple detectives, maybe not, but these are guys that specialize in this field.

[tiredblondy]

Will that be at 2:30 Eastern Standard Time? If so, it's not far off.

oops I guess your right I was thinking it was 1:30 sorry

[Squishified]

Ok so the idea of Patience not being a child keeps being brought up. Would the FBI and the special task forces on this case not be able to tell the difference? If it were just a couple detectives, maybe not, but these are guys that specialize in this field.
I agree. If the authorities say it is a child, I believe them.

[SuziQ]

I wish I could post a photo of my TV, but I don't know how.
My husband will kill me if I try. I broke our monitor last week, so I'm not playing around with the computer any more!

lol, I can't blame you for that!

[christine2448]

http://www.stormdancing.net/network/java/chat1.html

put your nick in the top space, then type websleuths in the place for channel.


CHAT IS OPEN

[MsRusty]

I'm thinking if there were anybody else besides the girl and the molester in the video, LE would have told us that and maybe even tried getting his pic out for us to see. Because even if this second person existed but wasn't doing anything on there he'd be wanted for questioning if nothing else. Just my thoughts.

[dee10134]

Great job DEE!!! I am glad you joned WS!! Keep up the good work!

Thanks Indy! :) I'm glad I can help. There are a few things that I will probably adjust once the new pictures come out.

Also, is it me or does the bedding appear different in the photo of the girl than in the photo of the creep? It's almost like a "splash" pattern in the girl photo but in the perp's photo it's striped. Maybe it is just a comforter or something...

[christine2448]

I'm thinking if there were anybody else besides the girl and the molester in the video, LE would have told us that and maybe even tried getting his pic out for us to see. Because even if this second person existed but wasn't doing anything on there he'd be wanted for questioning if nothing else. Just my thoughts.

I believe MsRusty there are reports via press that they have another suspects pic that will be released at presser...I THINK.

[philamena]

Based off of the reflection on the TV, here is how I believe the room was set up. ...

dee,
Hi! Great job but I have a question for you, why do you think there were 3 people in the room plus the little girl? TIA

[MsRusty]

I believe MsRusty there are reports via press that they have another suspects pic that will be released at presser...I THINK.

Ok, sorry, I hadn't heard this. I hope if there are other people on the video we'll see their pics too. Because maybe they could be ID'd and lead LE to the little girl.

[christine2448]

Ok, sorry, I hadn't heard this. I hope if there are other people on the video we'll see their pics too. Because maybe they could be ID'd and lead LE to the little girl.


me too! Again, I'm not 100%, but I believe that is the case...it's coming on any minute..a bunch are in chat dicussing.

http://www.stormdancing.net/network/java/chat1.html

put your nick in the top space, then type websleuths in the place for channel.

[Reannan]

The little girl does have a cleft palate. If you crop the picture down to just her eyes and mouth, and then enlarge it, it is plain as day. It appears to have been repaired. I would post a copy of it, but I work with cropping and enlarging by copying and pasting into MS Word. Then, I copy it into MS Paint and save it as a .bmp file if I upload it to photobucket. When I put this one into MS Paint, it was so pixilated, you can't see the obvious cleft palate. Christine, I have your email, so I am going to email you my MS Word document, and you can at least see it. If you can figure out how to get it on here, that would be great. This feature should drastically narrow down the identity of the child. In fact, medical records of hopsitals for repair of cleft palate's in the last 5-6 years should be investigated.

[christine2448]

Patience on Geraldo!

Enundated with leads, but nothing yet!

http://www.pahrumpvalleytimes.com/2007/Sep-26-Wed-2007/news/16904752.html

[Indy Gal]

The little girl does have a cleft palate. If you crop the picture down to just her eyes and mouth, and then enlarge it, it is plain as day. It appears to have been repaired. I would post a copy of it, but I work with cropping and enlarging by copying and pasting into MS Word. Then, I copy it into MS Paint and save it as a .bmp file if I upload it to photobucket. When I put this one into MS Paint, it was so pixilated, you can't see the obvious cleft palate. Christine, I have your email, so I am going to email you my MS Word document, and you can at least see it. If you can figure out how to get it on here, that would be great. This feature should drastically narrow down the identity of the child. In fact, medical records of hopsitals for repair of cleft palate's in the last 5-6 years should be investigated.
So I brought this up in #1, but keep flipping back and forth. Maybe her lip is swollen. But I can see where it isnt centered on her lip.

[reb]

Interesting that no one so far has mentioned the possibility that the man is an illegal alien and he & the girl are from Mexico. With the porous borders we are dealing with these days,, who knows. This could also account for the fact that no one has stepped forward yet to say "that's my daughter!" or, husband, ex-husband, boyfriend, etc.. for all we know the girl might be a child of the slums and the mother (if alive.. or, interested).. has no way of finding her and no exposure to international news events.

The guy IS a spitting image of Anders.... I wish we could at least hear if he's been definitely ruled out, or not! If he's NOT Anders.. then I would say, the perp is definitely Mexican. When I saw his features that seemed obvious to me. (And it appears as if Anders may be part Hispanic,, hard to tell).
So this would mean... the film was made either IN Mexico, or here (as an illegal, most likely)... and he brought the girl with him, from Mexico.

[dee10134]

dee,
Hi! Great job but I have a question for you, why do you think there were 3 people in the room plus the little girl? TIA

We've analyzed the reflection in the TV and the general consensus is that there is a man seated in the reflection under the window and another possible man standing next to him.

Also, I believe there is someone holding the camera directly in front of her (or under her). :sick::sick:

As far as blowing up her picture from the news site, it's not working as great as I thought. Because it's from a video, the pixelation is slightly blurry, which causes it to get blurry even when increasing the resolution. :mad:

[christine2448]

The little girl does have a cleft palate. .

I copied this entire post and pasted it your email, forwarded it with doc attached to det., JIC.

[LMax]

MSNBC is covering the news conference.

[philamena]

We've analyzed the reflection in the TV and the general consensus is that there is a man seated in the reflection under the window and another possible man standing next to him.

Also, I believe there is someone holding the camera directly in front of her (or under her). :sick::sick:

As far as blowing up her picture from the news site, it's not working as great as I thought. Because it's from a video, the pixelation is slightly blurry, which causes it to get blurry even when increasing the resolution. :mad:

Thanks hon. You did a great job!!
Waaa Now my heart is breaking more for her....thinking that one pos was in the room was bad enough. :(:(:(:(:(

[reb]

I don't see how you guys can tell there is a 2nd or 3rd guy in the reflection?? You can barely make out ONE figure as it is! Also... did the cops say if the video camera was hand-held or on a stand? That would have everything to do with it. Dammit.. what's taking so long to get more photos or clues already...????? Why are they dragging their feet?? ALL this technology and it's STILL like the Stone Age sometimes.

[Reannan]

Thanks Christine! I am sure they know this about the cleft palate, but we can't take anything for granted and assume anything. Plus, if the narrow down any suspects they can investigate if any family members have cleft palate's. If I were working on this case with LE, I would interview the family of each of the people who are possible look-alikes that have been listed on WS's to see if they have daughters, nieces, etc. who had cleft palate repair.

[kgeaux]

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/14207862/detail.html


This is such an odd article. Or maybe my comprehension is a bit off today. This article says the tape shows a man who police think MAY be a sexual predator......but previous articles have said the tape clearly shows the little girl being sexually abused.

Is this a hint that there are two people with the little girl? The one we have pics of and another actual abuser who was smart enough to hide his face? Or am I just reading too much into this?

[lizzybeth]

Can a cleft palate be heriditary? I know there's a man in my neighborhood that has one and his son does too.

[dee10134]

I don't see how you guys can tell there is a 2nd or 3rd guy in the reflection?? You can barely make out ONE figure as it is! Also... did the cops say if the video camera was hand-held or on a stand? That would have everything to do with it. Dammit.. what's taking so long to get more photos or clues already...????? Why are they dragging their feet?? ALL this technology and it's STILL like the Stone Age sometimes.

Reb, I believe we went over that in the first thread. I honestly don't know where to point you on that thread because it is so long. A few people enlarged and outlined the figures seen in the reflection on the TV.

[cheko1]

Has anyone gotten the new pix released yet?

[lizzybeth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loeys-Dietz_syndrome


I was looking up cleft palates and the article says that it occurs in children that also have this syndrome. It sounds like Patience.

[LMax]

Do you mean cleft lip? I was born with cleft palate, but it just involves the back of the throat. They didn't think it was hereditary, but my brother was also born with it and a great-uncle also. I hope you don't mind me jumping in.
Lisa

[swanniee11]

Heres what I heard from the PC: They have a John Doe warrant, whatever state he is found in, he can be arrested on the spot: T.V was produced in 2003 the dress was manufactured in 2003: Tucks lawyer hung up on a detective: There will be a picture of another girl put out with new pics of patience and A**wipe.

[dee10134]

Can a cleft palate be heriditary? I know there's a man in my neighborhood that has one and his son does too.

My brother was born with a cleft lip and palate. No one else in our family has it. They estimate 1 in 700 babies are born with a cleft palate. It is said to be caused by either genetics or environmental causes, or a combination of both factors.

[lizzybeth]

Not at all thank you.

[SuziQ]

They have a poss name of the victim. They are asking if anyone comes across the name not to release it. They are working with NAMC, IIRC.

[lizzybeth]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loeys-Dietz_syndrome


I'm posting this link again. Someone please read it and see if it sounds like maybe Patience suffers from this syndrome.

I notice it says protruding chest wall, long fingers, wide-spaced eyes and cleft lip/palate.

[MsRusty]

The news conference said they were going to release a picture of a second girl--WHO IS NOT A VICTIM--but appears on the same tape.

[dee10134]

Heres what I heard from the PC: They have a John Doe warrant, whatever state he is found in, he can be arrested on the spot: T.V was produced in 2003 the dress was manufactured in 2003: Tucks lawyer hung up on a detective: There will be a picture of another girl put out with new pics of patience and A**wipe.

ANOTHER girl?! So the creep did this to more than one girl?! :behindbar:furious:

[MsRusty]

I didn't hear mention of any other adult's pic being released. Only new, better enhanced.

[kgeaux]

I don't see how you guys can tell there is a 2nd or 3rd guy in the reflection?? You can barely make out ONE figure as it is! Also... did the cops say if the video camera was hand-held or on a stand? That would have everything to do with it. Dammit.. what's taking so long to get more photos or clues already...????? Why are they dragging their feet?? ALL this technology and it's STILL like the Stone Age sometimes.

The angle changes, doesn't it? Seems to me someone is holding a camera. I'm thinking two men in the room. One outline I can clearly see, the other is more difficult for me to make out....but I'm thinking two men.

[calus_3]

If I could find the guy, I think that I would kill him.

This bothers me to my soul.

Cal

[christine2448]

They have a poss name of the victim. They are asking if anyone comes across the name not to release it. They are working with NAMC, IIRC.

Where did you hear this???

[dee10134]

When can we expect the release of the photos?

And that's absolutely wonderful that they think they have a name for the girl!!!!!!!!! I hope this really helps in their investigation and they find her ASAP!!!!!!

[BethInAK]

WRINKLES i agree with you. The neck and the hands are what I focused on first, especially the neck. Rape is rape regardless of the victim, but I just pray this is not a baby.

I agree with you too Wrinkles, and I am unsure if its rape (maybe a prostitute who serves clientele by pretending to be a child), but believe it needs to be investigated anyway. Some of the concerns about facial swelling could be part of the results of the genetic anamoly.

I do hope that whomever has been in touch with the authorities has pointed out the potential for this to not be a child, however, it needs to be considered a case of child rape until its proven otherwise.

[SeriouslySearching]

At least, not a victim on the tape anyway.

Where did you hear they might have IDed her?!?!?!?! If they are working with NAMC it would mean she was a missing child...yes?! Which would be horrible. (sigh) Oh, wait...what IS NAMC? Did he mean NCMEC?

[SuziQ]

Where did you hear this???

On the presser

The second girl is not being abused. But appears in a different setting on the same tape and may lead to the suspect.

[lizzybeth]

The news conference said they were going to release a picture of a second girl--WHO IS NOT A VICTIM--but appears on the same tape.

Could it be that this creep filmed over another little girls b-day party or something? I know I found some tapes from long ago that my ex had of a movie (PG-rated) that he had taped and then right in the middle of it he has video of my son running around in the yard.

[christine2448]

On the presser

The second girl is not being abused. But appears in a different setting on the same tape and may lead to the suspect.

I meant the name part...they think they know who patience is, or the other girl???? Oh I hope I read this right.

[swanniee11]

I did say I saw a 3rd person, either a man in underwear or someone in a diaper that I couldnt tell, he was standing next to the guy who was sitting ( on the left of the guy sitting) the legs on this person looked odd! I wonder if this is the other girl?

[Reannan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loeys-Dietz_syndrome


I'm posting this link again. Someone please read it and see if it sounds like maybe Patience suffers from this syndrome.

I notice it says protruding chest wall, long fingers, wide-spaced eyes and cleft lip/palate.

Good catch lizzybeth.... yes indeed, I think it is possible that this child has this syndrome. We have all discussed the way her hands look "wrong" for a child's hands, and this would explain it. Here is a link to another article about the syndrome with a picture of another little girl who has it:
http://www.hopkinschildrens.org/pages/news/CCNSpring05/patient.html

[BethInAK]

Ok so the idea of Patience not being a child keeps being brought up. Would the FBI and the special task forces on this case not be able to tell the difference? If it were just a couple detectives, maybe not, but these are guys that specialize in this field.

They specialize in identifying genetic disorders????

[SuziQ]

I meant the name part...they think they know who patience is, or the other girl???? Oh I hope I read this right.

I believe they have a possible name for the victim. The other little girl they want to identify to as a possible link to the suspect.

DA may negotiate a deal with Tuck to gain more info as it's more important to find the girl at this point.

[swanniee11]

This video could have been taken back in 2003, my reasoning is that the dress and the tv were manufactured then. That means this girl could be around 9yrs old. Just thinking outloud

[Squishified]

This video could have been taken back in 2003, my reasoning is that the dress and the tv were manufactured then. That means this girl could be around 9yrs old. Just thinking outloud
That's what I believe they were alluding to.

[christine2448]

I believe they have a possible name for the victim. The other little girl they want to identify to as a possible link to the suspect.

DA may negotiate a deal with Tuck to gain more info as it's more important to find the girl at this point.

I'm sorry Suzi, I am so tired..they may know who Patience is, or the other girl we have not yet seen in the video?

[SeriouslySearching]

If they have to deal with Tuck...so be it. It is more important to find Patience.

It is a starting point to date the video. She could be as old as 9-10 now. Or the TV and the gown could be older and she could be 7-8. All they can tell is it is between 2003 and May 2007. (Unless Tuck had the video longer than 5 months and he lied about that, too.)

[SuziQ]

I'm sorry Suzi, I am so tired..they may know who Patience is, or the other girl we have not yet seen in the video?

That's ok, they may have a name for Patience. The other little girl is not known to be a victim. She just appears on the tape in another setting. Think Birthday party or something.

[Indy Gal]

If they have to deal with Tuck...so be it. It is more important to find Patience.
I agree!! If anyone can find a link to the presser please post it. i was unable to watch and cant find it anywhere.

[cheko1]

I agree!! If anyone can find a link to the presser please post it. i was unable to watch and cant find it anywhere.

I'm also looking for it Indy .....can't find it!

[Wrinkles]

Quick note to Tom'sGirl, Reb and BethinAK,

I had no clue that there was such a LONG previous thread. I am now sorry that I did not read it first. HOWEVER, interesting to me that I saw what Tom'sGirl saw and what Reb wrote:

>>Tom'sGirl... OMG.. I think I see what you are seeing now!!! I knew there was something strange about the girl's hands, her face, her chest... do you think there is any possibility that this little person is actually....... a grown adult (or teenager) with dwarfism...??? Look at her again everyone....<<

This little person may be a child with a syndrome, they may be a dwarf (not a child)... I dunno, all I know is that when I commented, it was prior to reading anything else, just after having looked at photos.

I think we are all in agreement, IF this is a child or ANYONE being abused, let's hope that the perps are busted, the girl/woman helped.

I do find it somewhat comforting that my eyes weren't completely blowing me up.

W

PS. Where can I catch the press conf OR did I already miss it?

[SeriouslySearching]

We are looking now for a copy of the presser. No luck yet.

Still haven't found it, but here is another news story on Patience with an FBI guy on MSNBC:

Police seek girl sexually assaulted on tape (http://javascript<b></b>:msnvDwd('00','f9a4e143-1d15-44ba-971f-bf6e75f4bb81','us','News_Editors Picks','','msnbc','','20993599','Police: Child sexually assaulted on tape'))
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

[philamena]

ANOTHER girl?! So the creep did this to more than one girl?! :behindbar:furious:

No hon, the cop said this girl wasn't abused on the tape but she was on the same tape of the scumbag abusing the child.

[SuziQ]

Only the local CBS station had a link to the pressur and it didn't start. So I found it on CNN. But missed the first part, how much I don't know. I will keep my eye on CNN for the video.

[swanniee11]

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/14207862/detail.html

[JanetElaine]

This video could have been taken back in 2003, my reasoning is that the dress and the tv were manufactured then. That means this girl could be around 9yrs old. Just thinking outloud

Good thing I started with birth year 1998 then in looking over missing kids.... I don't know why I choose that year so to me that's kind of amazing.

[MsPooh]

They have identified factors in the video which brings them closer to identifying the little girl
No websleuthing, do not call asking for more info..they will not give it because they do not know if it is a concerned person or the person (perp)in the video
Identified dress from a tip sent in from someone in N.C...Laura Dare..in contact with the manufacturer to get more info
know name of tv and dvd player..in contact with the maufacturers to get more info..
Darren Tuck is not cooperating at all with LE..his attorney hung up on the detectives..
gave special e-mail address for tips..
there is another little girl on the tape, they do not believe she was a victim but want to find her

[JanetElaine]

Identified dress from a tip sent in from someone in N.C...Laura Dare..in contact with the manufacturer to get more info
know name of tv and dvd player..in contact with the maufacturers to get more info..

I don't know if these are the tips that people on here have mailed/called in, but even if not, WTG websleuthers! :clap: :clap:

[philamena]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loeys-Dietz_syndrome

excellent find! Sounds a lot like little Precious....from what we can speculate of course.

[SuziQ]

I just had a thought. I wonder if the suspect says Patience's first name or something on the video. That would be a major clue to narrow down the search. I wonder if they detected accents as well. Language inflection could indicate what part of the country, or what country for that matter, Patience and the victim are from

[Tom'sGirl]

I just had a thought. I wonder if the suspect says Patience's first name or something on the video. That would be a major clue to narrow down the search. I wonder if they detected accents as well. Language inflection could indicate what part of the country, or what country for that matter, Patience and the victim are from

We still don't know if the VHS video had sound, that info. has not been realeased.

[dee10134]

No hon, the cop said this girl wasn't abused on the tape but she was on the same tape of the scumbag abusing the child.

Oh thank God!

I hope like hell he didn't do this to anyone else, but that's probably not the case. Sadly, if he did it once, there are probably many more victims out there. :mad:

[BethInAK]

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/14207862/detail.html

all of the tips came from foxnews.com????
conceited FAUX NEWS.

i'm glad that the publicity is making a difference but I doubt that the police know exactly what percentage of leads came from where.

[SeriouslySearching]

What is NMAC?

[Indy Gal]

http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/0907/2602_little_girl_video1.html

[Taximom]

I just had a thought. I wonder if the suspect says Patience's first name or something on the video. That would be a major clue to narrow down the search. I wonder if they detected accents as well. Language inflection could indicate what part of the country, or what country for that matter, Patience and the victim are from

If LE is aware of a first name, they should have released that possibility in their first press release!

[Shamrock]

Hey all, please forgive me as I just started reading on this case so I'm not caught up. Who is Patience? And has the presser happened yet?

[MsPooh]

Darren Tuck was arrested 2x child pornography..laws do not protect him from doble jeopardy
e-mail link nyesheriff.net
photos to be released at the end of PC
t.v. produced between 2002-2003
dvr produced 2004
working with outside agencies
many different poses in new photos
they believe the girl is 5 years old

[dee10134]

We still don't know if the VHS video had sound, that info. has not been realeased.

I'm willing to bet that it did. Most VHS recorders have built-in microphones. It would take some editing to remove all audio from the tape, which I honestly don't believe these idiots had the presence of mind to do.

[Bilas]

Hello everyone,

I think most of you do a great service here and you should be thanked!

I do find it disturbing that many people think that this is not a child! Some even saying that it may be a prostitute and not even a crime! From what LE said this is the most shocking and sick thing they have seen! I just find it hard to think people feel she is an adult!

So much child pornography goes on in this country and around the world and I feel so bad for these little angels that know nothing else but abuse!!

Please find this **CHILD** soon!

[SuziQ]

We still don't know if the VHS video had sound, that info. has not been realeased.

True, and it hasn't been released that it doesn't. Outside of webcams and security video. I don't think I've ever seen a video that doesn't have sound.

[dee10134]

I just had a thought. I wonder if the suspect says Patience's first name or something on the video. That would be a major clue to narrow down the search. I wonder if they detected accents as well. Language inflection could indicate what part of the country, or what country for that matter, Patience and the victim are from

I have a feeling that they're from somewhere within the USA. If they suspected that they weren't, why such a nationwide hunt?

[diamondgirl]

If there was another child in the room, she was abused too. Just witnessing that is abuse. Plus, there might be another video where the other girl is abused

[SuziQ]

What is NMAC?

lol, I think I got my acronyms mixed up in my haste to type. I meant National Center for missing and exploited children. Was typing as I listened. So I hope I heard that right.

[SeriouslySearching]

Isn't Christine in GA? Boohiss! Maybe he meant GA!

[Tom'sGirl]

Hey all, please forgive me as I just started reading on this case so I'm not caught up. Who is Patience? And has the presser happened yet?

Start reading first thread on this case at http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53845

Patience is just a name referred here as we don't know actual name.

[BethInAK]

Hello everyone,

I think most of you do a great service here and you should be thanked!

I do find it disturbing that many people think that this is not a child! Some even saying that it may be a prostitute and not even a crime! From what LE said this is the most shocking and sick thing they have seen! I just find it hard to think people feel she is an adult!

So much child pornography goes on in this country and around the world and I feel so bad for these little angels that know nothing else but abuse!!

Please find this **CHILD** soon!

Just because we think that this may not be a young child doesn't imply that we aren't concerned that it is a child or that we condone child pornography. Just pointing out other possibilities. I'm not sure how that could be "disturbing". Are you implying that considering that this may not be a child makes me somehow a child pornographer?

[Squishified]

Isn't Christine in GA? Boohiss! Maybe he meant GA!
I know. When he said that I quickly tried to remember where Christine is from.

[tiredblondy]

What is NMAC?

Yes What is NMAC?

[Tom'sGirl]

Hello everyone,

I think most of you do a great service here and you should be thanked!

I do find it disturbing that many people think that this is not a child! Some even saying that it may be a prostitute and not even a crime! From what LE said this is the most shocking and sick thing they have seen! I just find it hard to think people feel she is an adult!

So much child pornography goes on in this country and around the world and I feel so bad for these little angels that know nothing else but abuse!!

Please find this **CHILD** soon!

Most of us here are Sleuther's and explore all aspects of what 'could be'.

[Bilas]

Just because we think that this may not be a young child doesn't imply that we aren't concerned that it is a child or that we condone child pornography. Just pointing out other possibilities. I'm not sure how that could be "disturbing". Are you implying that considering that this may not be a child makes me somehow a child pornographer?

It's disturbing too me because this is definitely a child! According to LE and as we all have not seen the tape they certainly think it is a child! Why would people try and think that it is not a child? That disturbs me, sorry.

[swanniee11]

all of the tips came from foxnews.com????
conceited FAUX NEWS.

i'm glad that the publicity is making a difference but I doubt that the police know exactly what percentage of leads came from where.


yeah, I figured they were giving themselves their own plug. lol. imo

[philamena]

If there was another child in the room, she was abused too. ...
diamondgirl,
The officer didn't say another girl was in the room hon, he said another girl was on the tape. In other words this girl may be cutting the grass for all we know. But he definitely said she wasn't abused.

[tiredblondy]

Yes What is NMAC?

OOPS It was NAMC. What is that?

[BethInAK]

It's disturbing too me because this is definitely a child! According to LE and as we all have not seen the tape they certainly think it is a child! Why would people try and think that it is not a child? That disturbs me, sorry.


I hope its NOT a child.
Do you hope that it is one? Because that disturbs me.

[Tom'sGirl]

OOPS It was NAMC. What is that?

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1701523&postcount=166

[philamena]

If LE is aware of a first name, they should have released that possibility in their first press release!

I didn't hear the cop say they had the little girl's first name. Everyone hear that besides me? :o

[SuziQ]

Yes What is NMAC?

See post 166

[Taximom]

We've made it through almost 1,000 comments with differing thoughts about different things in this case and haven't had problems before. I suspect both BethinAK and Bilas just feel very strongly about finding this little girl and hope we can stay on topic and not be offended by other's comments. Please?

[Tom'sGirl]

We've made it through almost 1,000 comments with differing thoughts about different things in this case and haven't had problems before. I suspect both BethinAK and Bilas just feel very strongly about finding this little girl and hope we can stay on topic and not be offended by other's comments. Please?

Agreed TM!

[philamena]

Good grief what happened? lol Is it my perfume.:dance:
Seriously, I've been trying to get in here for hours. Glad to see the site is up and running.:clap:
I'm checking out tonight's news shows to see if anyone is covering this story. So far Nancy G and Billy O are talking about something else.

[Tom'sGirl]

http://www.fox5vegas.com/index.html (http://www.fox5vegas.com/index.html)

[philamena]

ohh thank you

[dottierainbow]

AMW has new photo released and also another child's picture who is about 10.

[STEADFAST]

If there was another child in the room, she was abused too. Just witnessing that is abuse. Plus, there might be another video where the other girl is abused

They say the other girl was not molested in the video tape. She was taped through a window and then spotted the person taping her and he ran away (I guess with the video camera going?) I can't find the article right now. Will keep looking. I did save 2 pictures of the other girl, some more pictures of the perpetrator, and another picture of Patience.

ETA if anyone wants to see these pictures now or post them, I could email them to you. I've forgotten my username and password on photobucket.

[MsRusty]

Was the site down? I went away for a few hours and I don't see much activity now. Thanks to Tom's Girl for posting the pics.

[czechmate7]

There was a 2nd girl in the video!!!! Am I the only one who is just finding this out??:confused: :eek:
I wonder if they can locate this girl....At least they can find out where this was filmed and go from there.

[dottierainbow]

http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=2169
Second child was not molested but it is a clue.

[Tom'sGirl]

Was the site down? I went away for a few hours and I don't see much activity now. Thanks to Tom's Girl for posting the pics.

Yes, site went down over 5 hours ago. YW for the photo link.

[MsRusty]

There was a 2nd girl in the video!!!! Am I the only one who is just finding this out??

This was brought out on the press conference earlier. She is not a victim it was said, they released her pic to get further leads.

[tiredblondy]

[quote=STEADFAST;1701598]They say the other girl was not molested in the video tape. She was taped through a window and then spotted the person taping her and he ran away (I guess with the video camera going?) I can't find the article right now.

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/14211588/detail.html

[czechmate7]

Well, being that the cops withheld that info, I'm wondering what other info they have that they aren't talking about?? I hope their working on leads.

[teonspaleprincess]

OMG, thank goodness I can get on here. I have been going crazy wondering about this case. Is it just me or does that one photo of the little girl look like a different child wearing the same lingerie? She looks waaaay younger and her face seems to be shaped different. I hope these new photo's generate new leads.

[j2mirish]

http://www.fox5vegas.com/index.html (http://www.fox5vegas.com/index.html)
thank you tg, i couldnt find them- picture # 3---- broke my heart- it really shows she is a little bitty girl :( :( imo

[STEADFAST]

[quote=STEADFAST;1701598]They say the other girl was not molested in the video tape. She was taped through a window and then spotted the person taping her and he ran away (I guess with the video camera going?) I can't find the article right now.

http://www.fox5vegas.com/news/14211588/detail.html

That's not the article I'm talking about. This one had two pictures of the other girls, with background included, two more views of the perp, and a totally different pic of Patience. I've got the pics, just can't locate the article.:waitasec:

[Tom'sGirl]

thank you tg, i couldnt find them- picture # 3---- broke my heart- it really shows she is a little bitty girl :( :( imo

YES, she does j2mirish............completely different from the one they first realeased.

[czechmate7]

Why on earth would that other girl just ran away without saying anything to anyone??? :doh: She could have told an adult and they could have protected that little girl!

[MsRusty]

I agree with teonspaleprincess, that one picture of her looks like somebody much younger than 5.

[STEADFAST]

Why on earth would that other girl just ran away without saying anything to anyone??? :doh: She could have told an adult and they could have protected that little girl!

It was the person taping her who ran away when she saw him.

[Tom'sGirl]

[quote=tiredblondy;1701617]

That's not the article I'm talking about. This one had two pictures of the other girls, with background included, two more views of the perp, and a totally different pic of Patience. I've got the pics, just can't locate the article.:waitasec:

I posted it above
http://www.fox5vegas.com/index.html (http://www.fox5vegas.com/index.html)

[philamena]

MsRusty,
I agree...that looks like a younger baby...........

[j2mirish]

YES, she does j2mirish............completely different from the one they first realeased.
ita
:mad:

[STEADFAST]

[quote=STEADFAST;1701624]

I posted it above
http://www.fox5vegas.com/index.html (http://www.fox5vegas.com/index.html)

Yes, that could be it. I see you can click for "more," but when I do, my browser crashes, so I haven't been able to get there this session. Whenever I've got JavaScript enabled (which I need to post here correctly) most news sites crash me.

If it's got those pics I mentioned, then that is the site I was posting about. Thanks, TG!

[STEADFAST]

MsRusty,
I agree...that looks like a younger baby...........

That picture made me cry.

[MsRusty]

Can we ask a moderator to open a forum especially for this case? With the new pics out it's going to get confusing discussing them and comparing each of our notes. I'm still looking the pics over.

One question....how do we know the second girl scared away the one who was videotaping her? I mean we know it because LE said so, but how would they know OF her? Did she report this?

[STEADFAST]

Can we ask a moderator to open a forum especially for this case? With the new pics out it's going to get confusing discussing them and comparing each of our notes. I'm still looking the pics over.

One question....how do we know the second girl scared away the one who was videotaping her? I mean we know it because LE said so, but how would they know OF her? Did she report this?

My impression was that the camera kept filming.

[richandfamous]

[quote=tiredblondy;1701617]

That's not the article I'm talking about. This one had two pictures of the other girls, with background included, two more views of the perp, and a totally different pic of Patience. I've got the pics, just can't locate the article.:waitasec:

Hi gang, sad sad stuff here.
Who is Patience??? thx

[Tom'sGirl]

Just a name given to her here at WS to the unidentifed girl.

[richandfamous]

Just a name given to her here at WS to the unidentifed girl.[/QUOTE]

thx Tom'sGirl. I think it's profound to say the least.

[richandfamous]

OT: from the looks of the quote posting...WS is not out of the woods yet. Hope we don't crash again.

[Tom'sGirl]

OT: from the looks of the quote posting...WS is not out of the woods yet. Hope we don't crash again.

Yes, we are having the 'Quote' problem again. I suggest everyone Preview Post before submitting, otherwise sometimes it can really get confusing :crazy:

[richandfamous]

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7133005

slide of new photos

[Tom'sGirl]

http://www.klas-tv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7133005

slide of new photos

Yes, those are the same ones.

[Indy Gal]

Can we ask a moderator to open a forum especially for this case? With the new pics out it's going to get confusing discussing them and comparing each of our notes. I'm still looking the pics over.

One question....how do we know the second girl scared away the one who was videotaping her? I mean we know it because LE said so, but how would they know OF her? Did she report this?
Christine is a mod, dont know how fast this might make a forum though.

[richandfamous]

and the other girl...wow, they better find this guy. With all the evidence they have on this guy, it would look pretty bad for LE if they don't.

[tiredblondy]

I can't wait for some of our sleuther's to work their magic on the new pictures.Especially the one of the tv and reflections.

[teonspaleprincess]

After looking at the pictures again, I still say that one picture is a different child. She has blue eyes where Patience looks like she has dark eyes. They have the same lips though, maybe it's her little sister?

[Indy Gal]

I can't wait for some of our sleuther's to work their magic on the new pictures.Especially the one of the tv and reflections.
Waiting for siesie to log in...LOL If any of you guys know good photo people and they are on pm them and ask them to come over.

[Sable]

Wouldn't it be ironic if the little girl in this video turns out to be the little girl with the middle name Patience listed on the NCMEC website?

[christine2448]

Yeehaaaa we are back in business!

Today at 415 pm EST I rec'd an email from Det Boruchowitz w/15 picture attached. We were in chat and I sent it to everyone that was in chat and could supply email, we would have posted but it wasn't possible. If you want a copy of this email, email me christine@lightingthewayhome.org and I will forward.

[Indy Gal]

http://nyecountysheriff.net/

link to presser and other things... http://lasvegasnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=7127939

[STEADFAST]

I can't wait for some of our sleuther's to work their magic on the new pictures.Especially the one of the tv and reflections.

Me, too! When I came home from work and saw that article, I expected I'd come on WS and there'd be all kinds of puzzles solved concerning those pics. Then, a couple of hours later, when I managed to get on here, turned out the pictures were just making it here, too. I'm amazed what some of you can do with pictures!:blowkiss:

[Indy Gal]

Yeehaaaa we are back in business!

Today at 415 pm EST I rec'd an email from Det Boruchowitz w/15 picture attached. We were in chat and I sent it to everyone that was in chat and could supply email, we would have posted but it wasn't possible. If you want a copy of this email, email me christine@lightingthewayhome.org and I will forward.
I saw TG had posted a link to the photos so i didnt post them. Did you get them okay. Also waiting for siesie, but she hasnt logged on yet. And do you think this will get a forum??

[christine2448]

I saw TG had posted a link to the photos so i didnt post them. Did you get them okay. Also waiting for siesie, but she hasnt logged on yet. And do you think this will get a forum??


OK, all 15? ETA, 16?

[Indy Gal]

OK, all 15? ETA, 16?
I will post the actual photos if you like. I didnt go to the links...:doh:

[christine2448]

I will post the actual photos if you like. I didnt go to the links...:doh:

NO, links are fine

I just didn't see them.


Pictures take up a lot of space

[Tom'sGirl]

OK, all 15? ETA, 16?

Yes, think 17 all together Chris

[Cherlee]

I have been wondering..They said they believe the tape was made in 2003-2004 because of the year the TV and DVD player was made?
Who's to say they didn't own them for a few years?

[christine2448]

Yes, think 17 all together Chris


Thanks, awesome everyone! TY For helping.

[philamena]

That picture made me cry.

STEADFAST,
Me too. I don't think I've shed this many tears over a case here at WS. I am so sick. I say let's light a prayer for her too. :(:(

[philamena]

I can't wait for some of our sleuther's to work their magic on the new pictures.Especially the one of the tv and reflections.
That one of the tv reflection is driving me nuts. Sorry if this was discussed before. I'm trying to play catch up from a few pages back.

[Indy Gal]

I have been wondering..They said they believe the tape was made in 2003-2004 because of the year the TV and DVD player was made?
Who's to say they didn't own them for a few years?
I agree I was really hoping they were goig to give us a little more than what they did. I want to know what the reflection in the TV is. I see something but it is bad and fear posting it before I hear a couple other thoughts on it.

[Anuniaq]

This has been so much discussion of whether this is a little girl or not. While I realize that has been answered for most by the new pictures. I thought I would shed some light on porn investigations.

This is what I used to do for a living. There are investigators who are specially trained to look at different parts of the body and categorize them on a scale to determine an age range for the subject of the picture. Even though I was never specifically trained, I can tell you after looking at thousands, maybe millions of images, I was pretty good at it and that was usually with still pictures.

That's why, although I agreed that the still we had looked "off", with a full half hour of video, I was pretty sure if they were categorically stating that she was a little girl that she probably was.

I hope with the new leads from the other girl on the video, all of the leads poring in from other sources and all of the great sleuthing being done here, they will have the perp soon and rescue this little girl. Now that they've shown it is so recent... there may actually be hope for Patience.

[Cherlee]

Well there is no doubt after seeing the new pictures that she is a babygirl..It breaks my heart..

[philamena]

ANUNIAQ,
Thanks so much for the information. Thank you for the job you did...I can't imagine how difficult that must have been.

[Anuniaq]

The one of him clearly bending over her...

it can't even type what it makes me want to do to him.

[teonspaleprincess]

Does anyone else agree with me that the baby with the big blue eyes isn't Patience? Patience looks like she has dark eyes.

[IdahoMom]

I'm nervous that the police are saying the video was taped in 2003-2004 based on the make of the TV and video equipment. Why couldn't the tape have been made more recently- I mean, the sick SOB could have older, used equipment in his home. I just hope they're not basing too much on the 2003-4 time frame. That might somehow limit the scope of the investigation.

Forgive me if this has been said already, but has anyone noticed how high the sick SOB's cheekbones are?

[Anuniaq]

Does anyone else agree with me that the baby with the big blue eyes isn't Patience? Patience looks like she has dark eyes.

Look at the straps on that close-up, looks like the same print. I think they just look dark because they are farther away and in shadow because of her hair. My DD has very blue eyes and it often can't be seen in pictures if she is in shadow.

[teonspaleprincess]

Even her hair color looks different to me and her face shape. The lips look the same though. Is it posible it's a little sister dressed the same way?

[Indy Gal]

1. High cheekbones
2. sunken cheeks
3, long eyelashes
4.thin mustache
5. High hairline

Anyone else see any thing else about POS

[Indy Gal]

Look at the straps on that close-up, looks like the same print. I think they just look dark because they are farther away and in shadow because of her hair. My DD has very blue eyes and it often can't be seen in pictures if she is in shadow.
But also IMO the faces are not shaped the same and she looks a lot younger than Patience. But then again it could have been taken at an earlier time.

[Anuniaq]

I'm nervous that the police are saying the video was taped in 2003-2004 based on the make of the TV and video equipment. Why couldn't the tape have been made more recently- I mean, the sick SOB could have older, used equipment in his home. I just hope they're not basing too much on the 2003-4 time frame. That might somehow limit the scope of the investigation.
edited to shorten by Anuniaq


I think that is there was of limiting the investigation forward, if that makes sense.

There is a huge, I mean huge, database of commonly found images and videos (found over and over again in porn investigations) and many of them are 20+ years old (they are "good" to find as the victims have often been id, which is necessary for prosecution). In this case, they now know that the video they have is no older than 2003. That doesn't mean that they won't eventually look at older video for the perp.

[IdahoMom]

1. High cheekbones
2. sunken cheeks
3, long eyelashes
4.thin mustache
5. High hairline

Anyone else see any thing else about POS

Hi Indy-

Yes- those high cheekbones really stand out to me.

[SuziQ]

Does anyone else agree with me that the baby with the big blue eyes isn't Patience? Patience looks like she has dark eyes.

Blue Eye's can photograph dark, especially at a distance. My stepdaughter has blue eyes and they are the same way.

[IdahoMom]

I think that is there was of limiting the investigation forward, if that makes sense.

There is a huge, I mean huge, database of commonly found images and videos (found over and over again in porn investigations) and many of them are 20+ years old (they are "good" to find as the victims have often been id, which is necessary for prosecution). In this case, they now know that the video they have is no older than 2003. That doesn't mean that they won't eventually look at older video for the perp.

Thanks! Sorry for the doofus question. One of the news reports sounded like they said it was definitely filmed at a certain time.

I have a very strong feeling that this girl may have been abducted- or even sold or given to- the sick SOB. I'm not thinking she is his child.

[Indy Gal]

I think (this is why I love ws we all think different) that she is related to him somehow. maybe not family but that he knows her. Just because of LE saying they believed she had been through this before because of lack of emotion in tape.

[Anuniaq]

But also IMO the faces are not shaped the same and she looks a lot younger than Patience. But then again it could have been taken at an earlier time.

I absolutely see what your saying, but the police ID (not who she is but pictures) a second girl but say nothing about a third. I would imagine if there was any question about it being another girl they would mention it. The images of Patience are probably all from the same, uninterrupted 30 minutes of video.