Should Darlie have a new trial?

[nicola]

Should Darlie Routier be given a new trial?

[White Rain]

I voted no. Why make the tax payers fork out more money when the evidence is going to show the SAME exact thing and I am almost 100% sure she'd be found guilty again.
If there really was anything new to warrant a new trial, yes sure why not, but there isn't. Darlie and her family just want the public to think there is.

[mollymalone]

No she should not. Darlie's appeals process is ongoing and if there were anything that would exonerate her, they'd have already gotten a new trial IMO.

[SadieMae]

I voted no. The only way she should get another trial is if they find the "intruder" and that will never happen. She's guilty...end of story, IMO.

[eleven]

I voted yes. I definitely think she should get a new trial.

[nicola]

IMO, of course she should have a new trial. Her defence team should be allowed the opportunity to have access to, and to test, evidence. Then they should have the opportunity to present this evidence infront of an unbiased and uninfluenced jury. After all a womans life is at stake here, and if it so happens that she didnt commit this crime im sure that everyone would be relieved that they found this out BEFORE they executed her!

[dottierainbow]

I believe she should of have a new trial.

[whitywendy]

I believe the courts (in good faith and to shut Darlie up) should retest the evidence with the new DNA techniques. Just to see IF these new tests come up with a different outcome. But that is it. NO new trial. It would be a waste of money.

[Squishified]

I voted "no".

I think the first trial went just fine.

[Ashley]

I voted "no". I think she is guilty and should remain where she is until her date with the needle. This is my first post but I have lurked here for more than a year. After reading the trial transcripts and hearing the evidence against her it is apparent to me that no one else could have killed those two darling boys but their mother.

Someone in an earlier post said the silly string episode was Darlie's way of celebrating her freedom from her burden in life being lifted of taking care of two very active boys 24/7. I agree. At the grave site she looked absolutely giddy and "free". On the trip to Penn. with the boys for two weeks would have been tiring and time consuming. Without the boys she could have basked in the limelight of her relatives. Drake being an infant would have been no problem as many there would have taken care of him for Darlie.

I think she buckled under the pressure of money problems and children. She needed child care for those 3 boys more than she needed extra maids and cleaning help. Devon was out of school for the summer and probably bored silly and seeking things to entertain himself. Damon was a tag-a-long after Devon. Darlie wanted everything in her life easy and problem free. Not so with two very active youngsters roaming the neighborhood and house and hot tub.

I read she is receiving parenting magazines in prison. That's closing the barn door a bit late. jmo ashley

[Squishified]

Welcome to Websleuths, Ashley!
Good post.

[whitywendy]

Hey Ashley - thanks for joining in. I, like you lurked for over a year before I felt "confident" enough to actually post.

I don't understand how someone can read the transcripts and come to a different conclusion than the rest of us. I truly believed the girl didn't do it until I found those docs. That IMOOC SEALED DARLIE's FATE.

[mollymalone]

I voted "no". I think she is guilty and should remain where she is until her date with the needle. This is my first post but I have lurked here for more than a year. After reading the trial transcripts and hearing the evidence against her it is apparent to me that no one else could have killed those two darling boys but their mother.

Someone in an earlier post said the silly string episode was Darlie's way of celebrating her freedom from her burden in life being lifted of taking care of two very active boys 24/7. I agree. At the grave site she looked absolutely giddy and "free". On the trip to Penn. with the boys for two weeks would have been tiring and time consuming. Without the boys she could have basked in the limelight of her relatives. Drake being an infant would have been no problem as many there would have taken care of him for Darlie.

I think she buckled under the pressure of money problems and children. She needed child care for those 3 boys more than she needed extra maids and cleaning help. Devon was out of school for the summer and probably bored silly and seeking things to entertain himself. Damon was a tag-a-long after Devon. Darlie wanted everything in her life easy and problem free. Not so with two very active youngsters roaming the neighborhood and house and hot tub.

I read she is receiving parenting magazines in prison. That's closing the barn door a bit late. jmo ashleyHello! Window dressing is what I'd call it. Primarily Drake's parenting is being taken care of by his grandparents (Do they still have custody?) and his dad. If she was really that concerned about being a good parent, she'd never have killed his two older siblings.

[White Rain]

I voted "no". I think she is guilty and should remain where she is until her date with the needle. This is my first post but I have lurked here for more than a year. After reading the trial transcripts and hearing the evidence against her it is apparent to me that no one else could have killed those two darling boys but their mother.

Someone in an earlier post said the silly string episode was Darlie's way of celebrating her freedom from her burden in life being lifted of taking care of two very active boys 24/7. I agree. At the grave site she looked absolutely giddy and "free". On the trip to Penn. with the boys for two weeks would have been tiring and time consuming. Without the boys she could have basked in the limelight of her relatives. Drake being an infant would have been no problem as many there would have taken care of him for Darlie.

I think she buckled under the pressure of money problems and children. She needed child care for those 3 boys more than she needed extra maids and cleaning help. Devon was out of school for the summer and probably bored silly and seeking things to entertain himself. Damon was a tag-a-long after Devon. Darlie wanted everything in her life easy and problem free. Not so with two very active youngsters roaming the neighborhood and house and hot tub.

I read she is receiving parenting magazines in prison. That's closing the barn door a bit late. jmo ashley


Parenting mags? You HAVE to be kidding me!?!?!?!
Maybe she is trying to come up with new ideas that good parents practice that she can claim she was doing back when her kids were still alive, just in case she ever does get that trial. After all, she WAS the perfect mom in hers and her family's eyes, at least in THEIR opinion. Why not pad the resume a bit right? Sheesh.

[whitywendy]

Parenting mags? You HAVE to be kidding me!?!?!?!
Maybe she is trying to come up with new ideas that good parents practice that she can claim she was doing back when her kids were still alive, just in case she ever does get that trial. After all, she WAS the perfect mom in hers and her family's eyes, at least in THEIR opinion. Why not pad the resume a bit right? Sheesh.

Hey chick - I like your answer. I seriously doubts she reads them. IF she was innocent, then just reading those parenting magazines would drive her mad. You know since her kids were taken away from her.....

[Jeana (DP)]

Hey chick - I like your answer. I seriously doubts she reads them. IF she was innocent, then just reading those parenting magazines would drive her mad. You know since her kids were taken away from her.....

Well gee, I'd like to think that her and the rest of the "Death Row Babes" are reading up on how to be good mammas, so that when they all get their second trials, or when "the real killers" are found, they can all come home, have more babies and live happily ever after. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Maybe we should start sending them recipies so they'll know what to cook for dinner every night.

[whitywendy]

Well gee, I'd like to think that her and the rest of the "Death Row Babes" are reading up on how to be good mammas, so that when they all get their second trials, or when "the real killers" are found, they can all come home, have more babies and live happily ever after. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Maybe we should start sending them recipies so they'll know what to cook for dinner every night.

Oh and style mag's so they can step right back into that prestigious world they were living before. :eek::eek:Funny Jeana!

Oh I am sorry about hearing you losing both your parents within a month of each other. That is such a tough and emotional crippling experience. One was hard enough for me. :blowkiss:

[Jeana (DP)]

Oh and style mag's so they can step right back into that prestigious world they were living before. :eek::eek:Funny Jeana!

Oh I am sorry about hearing you losing both your parents within a month of each other. That is such a tough and emotional crippling experience. One was hard enough for me. :blowkiss:

Thanks. I'm sorry about your's too. Its not easy.

[Rino]

I voted "no".

I think the first trial went just fine.
lol....me too

[cami]

I voted "no".

I think the first trial went just fine.

I voted a big fat NO as well. She's been tried and convicted. If there was any new evidence that would exonerate her, we'd have heard long ago.

Be careful what you wish for. MacDonald's dna tests only reaffirmed his guilt and so will Darlie's.

[cami]

Parenting mags? You HAVE to be kidding me!?!?!?!
Maybe she is trying to come up with new ideas that good parents practice that she can claim she was doing back when her kids were still alive, just in case she ever does get that trial. After all, she WAS the perfect mom in hers and her family's eyes, at least in THEIR opinion. Why not pad the resume a bit right? Sheesh.

OMG, I can't stop laughing. LOL you have Darlie's number alright.. I love the new poster's "locking the barn door after the horses escaped" analogy as well.

[accordn2me]

If not a new trial, IMO ALL of the evidence should be thoroughly tested by these pro bono appellate attorneys and some independent experts. Allow me to elaborate.

As I've stated before, I've read about this case for a while now. Most all of the posters here and on other message boards who are avid "Darlie Did It"s are keen sleuthers with keen hinky meters. Y'all are absolutely right about Darlie's changing stories (Darin's too), and the evidence presented by the prosecution.

I strongly, but respectfully, disagree with the opinions about Mulder presenting a stellar defense in this case. He offered no experts to counter the prosecution experts on the fibers on the knife, blood on the nightshirt, fingerprints, bloody footprints, blood in the garage, etc. If he is as good of a defense attorney as those who know his reputation claim, this makes no sense....none at all. Until you look at why the other attorneys were fired.

Darlie's appointed counsel (public defenders) were looking at evidence that would implicate Darin. I guess when your attorneys are free, you are not allowed to dictate the defense they will or will not use. So, these were fired and Mulder hired with the understanding that he would not present evidence that suggested Darin was the killer. For a long time, I understood this. Then this appeal stuff came out and I'm like.....wait, she said it wasn't Darin and now she's saying she doesn't know? WTH :confused:

I've always believed that just one parent couldn't have done everything without help from the other one, even if the help was just in covering up. That's makes them both just as guilty in my book. So, if Darlie is guilty, I believe Darin is too.

Test the evidence. The Darlie site claims the weapon that killed Devon was never found. IIRC, no one was tried for Devon's murder. Darlie was tried for Damon's murder. Maybe she did kill Damon. Test the evidence. I'd like to know.....with better testing procedures and methods today, will the evidence show exactly who killed Devon? His murder should be avenged as well.

You see, as I was reading over the appeal in response to a poster on another thread, I had a scenario that I'd never considered, or seen considered before, cross my mind. It, like many others, is pure speculation on my part, so I won't bore y'all with it. However, it would answer many questions I've been asking for a long time. And if it's true, another person belongs on death row. Test the evidence.

[White Rain]

OMG, I can't stop laughing. LOL you have Darlie's number alright.. I love the new poster's "locking the barn door after the horses escaped" analogy as well.

It IS funny, I am only sorry that it has come at the boys exspense.

[cami]

If not a new trial, IMO ALL of the evidence should be thoroughly tested by these pro bono appellate attorneys and some independent experts. Allow me to elaborate.

As I've stated before, I've read about this case for a while now. Most all of the posters here and on other message boards who are avid "Darlie Did It"s are keen sleuthers with keen hinky meters. Y'all are absolutely right about Darlie's changing stories (Darin's too), and the evidence presented by the prosecution.

I strongly, but respectfully, disagree with the opinions about Mulder presenting a stellar defense in this case. He offered no experts to counter the prosecution experts on the fibers on the knife, blood on the nightshirt, fingerprints, bloody footprints, blood in the garage, etc. If he is as good of a defense attorney as those who know his reputation claim, this makes no sense....none at all. Until you look at why the other attorneys were fired.

Darlie's appointed counsel (public defenders) were looking at evidence that would implicate Darin. I guess when your attorneys are free, you are not allowed to dictate the defense they will or will not use. So, these were fired and Mulder hired with the understanding that he would not present evidence that suggested Darin was the killer. For a long time, I understood this. Then this appeal stuff came out and I'm like.....wait, she said it wasn't Darin and now she's saying she doesn't know? WTH :confused:

I've always believed that just one parent couldn't have done everything without help from the other one, even if the help was just in covering up. That's makes them both just as guilty in my book. So, if Darlie is guilty, I believe Darin is too.

Test the evidence. The Darlie site claims the weapon that killed Devon was never found. IIRC, no one was tried for Devon's murder. Darlie was tried for Damon's murder. Maybe she did kill Damon. Test the evidence. I'd like to know.....with better testing procedures and methods today, will the evidence show exactly who killed Devon? His murder should be avenged as well.

You see, as I was reading over the appeal in response to a poster on another thread, I had a scenario that I'd never considered, or seen considered before, cross my mind. It, like many others, is pure speculation on my part, so I won't bore y'all with it. However, it would answer many questions I've been asking for a long time. And if it's true, another person belongs on death row. Test the evidence.

I think many of us here believe Darin is somehow involved. I for one do not believe he killed the boys. Darin was first investigated..no evidence. So Darlie's pd's wanted to accuse him as the killer, it's an old defence ploy when there are two defendants so why not use it in this instance. All of the evidence in that house points to Darlie as the killer not Darin. And I agree with you that one could not have done everything without the other....

That's why her story kept changing as she learned the evidence against her.

My own opinion is that burglary story was phoney..Darin's way to help Darlie and when it failed now Darlie says she just "doesn't know" what to think about Darin..LOL, all his efforts failed you duffus that's what's you should think..he can't fulfill your demands this time.

We all want the evidence tested..but it's been tested. Should we allow defendants access to testing every few years as techniques grow and science changes? We all want it tested. Do you know what the delay is with the state court? does anyone know?

[accordn2me]

I think many of us here believe Darin is somehow involved. I for one do not believe he killed the boys. Darin was first investigated..no evidence. So Darlie's pd's wanted to accuse him as the killer, it's an old defence ploy when there are two defendants so why not use it in this instance. All of the evidence in that house points to Darlie as the killer not Darin. And I agree with you that one could not have done everything without the other....

That's why her story kept changing as she learned the evidence against her.

My own opinion is that burglary story was phoney..Darin's way to help Darlie and when it failed now Darlie says she just "doesn't know" what to think about Darin..LOL, all his efforts failed you duffus that's what's you should think..he can't fulfill your demands this time.

We all want the evidence tested..but it's been tested. Should we allow defendants access to testing every few years as techniques grow and science changes? We all want it tested. Do you know what the delay is with the state court? does anyone know?No, I don't know what the delay is.

Darlie was prosecuted for Damon's murder. The state had no reason to present any evidence about Devon. I remember seeing pictures of him. From what I could see....and I've never seen the book, MTJD, but the pics I did see....it appeared that Devon was standing up when he was stabbed. The sock in the alley has always baffled me. I can't dismiss it. Darin's jeans are another huge unanswered question. There are too many unanswered questions in this case. The state didn't need any more. The defense does. For some reason, Mulder just didn't care.

[White Rain]

No, I don't know what the delay is.

Darlie was prosecuted for Damon's murder. The state had no reason to present any evidence about Devon. I remember seeing pictures of him. From what I could see....and I've never seen the book, MTJD, but the pics I did see....it appeared that Devon was standing up when he was stabbed. The sock in the alley has always baffled me. I can't dismiss it. Darin's jeans are another huge unanswered question. There are too many unanswered questions in this case. The state didn't need any more. The defense does. For some reason, Mulder just didn't care.


The state didn't prosecute Darlie for Devon's murder on the chance that she could have been found innocent of Damon's murder...then they would have a second chance to put her where she belongs by prosecuting her for Devon's. EXTREMELY SMART MOVE, imo.
I have never seen or heard ANY evidence that suggested Devon was standing up when he was stabbed. What makes you think this?

[accordn2me]

The state didn't prosecute Darlie for Devon's murder on the chance that she could have been found innocent of Damon's murder...then they would have a second chance to put her where she belongs by prosecuting her for Devon's. EXTREMELY SMART MOVE, imo.
I have never seen or heard ANY evidence that suggested Devon was standing up when he was stabbed. What makes you think this?Looking at the pics I've seen makes me think it. IIRC, it appears his blood ran down his body into his underwear. I'm no expert by far, but I don't think it would look that way were he in a prone position when stabbed.

[whitywendy]

Looking at the pics I've seen makes me think it. IIRC, it appears his blood ran down his body into his underwear. I'm no expert by far, but I don't think it would look that way were he in a prone position when stabbed.

I was under the impression that the reason the blood appeared this way, was because of the wet towels that Darlie kept getting from the kitchen. Too me it does look like the blood has come in contact with some water which caused it to "pool" the way it did. I honestly believe that both boys were attacked in their sleep and that Devon never moved from the spot he fell asleep at, which is why his blood was primarily found in this spot. Damon might not of awaken during the 1st stabbing but did waken shortly after, which is why there is a "blood trail" from Damon. I believe when he woke up was when Darlie saw him moving and stabbed him again, this is when he realized his mother was trying to kill him and was trying to get away from her. I CAN'T IMAGINE THE CONFUSION THIS POOR LITTLE 5 YEAR OLD HAD AT THIS TIME. IT MAKES ME WANT TO CRY!!!!

[wherego]

I think she should have a new trial for several reasons.
I am not sure of guilt or innocence, but I am sure she didn't get a fair trail.

One question that I have, why did she call 911 with one child still living and breathing to be a witness against her???? I would have to think that if she was the murderer, and staged this crime scene as many say she did, that her first priority would have been to leave neither child alive to tell that Mommy did it!

Just one of those things that makes this case difficult.

[whitywendy]

I think she should have a new trial for several reasons.
I am not sure of guilt or innocence, but I am sure she didn't get a fair trail.

One question that I have, why did she call 911 with one child still living and breathing to be a witness against her???? I would have to think that if she was the murderer, and staged this crime scene as many say she did, that her first priority would have been to leave neither child alive to tell that Mommy did it!

Just one of those things that makes this case difficult.

Darlie thought they were both dead when she first placed that call.

[cami]

Looking at the pics I've seen makes me think it. IIRC, it appears his blood ran down his body into his underwear. I'm no expert by far, but I don't think it would look that way were he in a prone position when stabbed.

Me neither but I believe that could have come from Darin's applying CPR to Devon.

[cami]

I think she should have a new trial for several reasons.
I am not sure of guilt or innocence, but I am sure she didn't get a fair trail.

One question that I have, why did she call 911 with one child still living and breathing to be a witness against her???? I would have to think that if she was the murderer, and staged this crime scene as many say she did, that her first priority would have been to leave neither child alive to tell that Mommy did it!

Just one of those things that makes this case difficult.

Damon was near death when the police responded and he actually died in the paramedics arms. I don't think a traumatized child, gasping for breath, is going to tell anyone his "mommy did it" but hey that's just me.

I think she made the 911 call for herself.

[cami]

No, I don't know what the delay is.

Darlie was prosecuted for Damon's murder. The state had no reason to present any evidence about Devon. I remember seeing pictures of him. From what I could see....and I've never seen the book, MTJD, but the pics I did see....it appeared that Devon was standing up when he was stabbed. The sock in the alley has always baffled me. I can't dismiss it. Darin's jeans are another huge unanswered question. There are too many unanswered questions in this case. The state didn't need any more. The defense does. For some reason, Mulder just didn't care.

I don't think he was. Darin performed CPR on Devon, when he blew into his mouth blood flew out of the chest wound.

What about the sock in the alley can't you dismiss? How do you think it got there and why isn't any of Darlie's blood on it?

Why are Darin's jeans a huge unanswered question? They were tested. Darin's statement of his movements that night places him with all three victims....we can expect him to have all three blood types on his jeans. As well, Laber does not state that the blood on Darin's jeans is consistant with his being there during the stabbings just that the stains should be subject to genetic testing.

Well since i'm not a lawyer or a judge I can't comment on Mulder.

[accordn2me]

I don't think he was. Darin performed CPR on Devon, when he blew into his mouth blood flew out of the chest wound.

What about the sock in the alley can't you dismiss? How do you think it got there and why isn't any of Darlie's blood on it?

Why are Darin's jeans a huge unanswered question? They were tested. Darin's statement of his movements that night places him with all three victims....we can expect him to have all three blood types on his jeans. As well, Laber does not state that the blood on Darin's jeans is consistant with his being there during the stabbings just that the stains should be subject to genetic testing.

Well since i'm not a lawyer or a judge I can't comment on Mulder.I think for the blood to have ran down his body and into his underwear like that, he would have had to be standing....wet towels or not. But I certainly don't know that for sure. It's JMO.

I can't dismiss the sock. I don't know how it got there. I haven't seen a good explanation for it yet. If Darlie's blood isn't on it, maybe Darin put it there.

I didn't realize Darin's jeans had been tested. Where can I find that?

[White Rain]

I don't think he was. Darin performed CPR on Devon, when he blew into his mouth blood flew out of the chest wound.

What about the sock in the alley can't you dismiss? How do you think it got there and why isn't any of Darlie's blood on it?

Why are Darin's jeans a huge unanswered question? They were tested. Darin's statement of his movements that night places him with all three victims....we can expect him to have all three blood types on his jeans. As well, Laber does not state that the blood on Darin's jeans is consistant with his being there during the stabbings just that the stains should be subject to genetic testing.

Well since i'm not a lawyer or a judge I can't comment on Mulder.

I also can't figure out the big deal about Darin's jeans. There was blood everywhere...I don't find it odd at all that he would have all 3's blood on him.

[accordn2me]

I also can't figure out the big deal about Darin's jeans. There was blood everywhere...I don't find it odd at all that he would have all 3's blood on him.Blood being on Darin's jeans wouldn't be odd. Whether it was smeared, splatter, or spatter would be interesting and informative. Where can I find the test results?

[White Rain]

Blood being on Darin's jeans wouldn't be odd. Whether it was smeared, splatter, or spatter would be interesting and informative. Where can I find the test results?

true...

[Mary456]

Blood being on Darin's jeans wouldn't be odd. Whether it was smeared, splatter, or spatter would be interesting and informative. Where can I find the test results?

Darin's blue jeans were tested, according to Charles Linch's Affidavit dated July/11/2002:

"On August 23, 1996, Douglas Parks, Wayne Huff, and Cliff Jenkins were accompanied by two forensic scientists, Bart Epstein and Terry Laber. It was my understanding that Bart Epstein and Terry Laber had been retained by Douglas Parks and Wayne Huff to conduct a forensic analysis of the physical and trace evidence in my custody. Bart Epstein, Terry Laber and I met for approximately three hours to discuss the evidence in the Routier case. During that meeting, Bart Epstein and Terry Laber reviewed the evidence in my possession, including, but not limited to:
a. All microscope slides I had prepared;
b. The nightshirt worn by Darlie Routier on the night of the murders;
c. The Hoover vacuum cleaner;
d. The large maroon pillow;
e. Pieces of carpet and flooring containing blood stains and spatters; and
f. Darin Routier's blood-stained blue jeans.

Darlie had a total of 7 well-respected attorneys, 2 nationally-known forensic scientists, as well as a private investigator working on her defense. I think it's safe to say that Darin's jeans didn't help either side's case, which is why they weren't admitted into evidence.

[accordn2me]

Darin's blue jeans were tested, according to Charles Linch's Affidavit dated July/11/2002:

"On August 23, 1996, Douglas Parks, Wayne Huff, and Cliff Jenkins were accompanied by two forensic scientists, Bart Epstein and Terry Laber. It was my understanding that Bart Epstein and Terry Laber had been retained by Douglas Parks and Wayne Huff to conduct a forensic analysis of the physical and trace evidence in my custody. Bart Epstein, Terry Laber and I met for approximately three hours to discuss the evidence in the Routier case. During that meeting, Bart Epstein and Terry Laber reviewed the evidence in my possession, including, but not limited to:
a. All microscope slides I had prepared;
b. The nightshirt worn by Darlie Routier on the night of the murders;
c. The Hoover vacuum cleaner;
d. The large maroon pillow;
e. Pieces of carpet and flooring containing blood stains and spatters; and
f. Darin Routier's blood-stained blue jeans.

Darlie had a total of 7 well-respected attorneys, 2 nationally-known forensic scientists, as well as a private investigator working on her defense. I think it's safe to say that Darin's jeans didn't help either side's case, which is why they weren't admitted into evidence.Thanks Mary.

I don't think "it's safe to say that Darin's jeans didn't help either side's case" so that's why they weren't admitted into evidence. Apparently, Mulder didn't think he needed to use anything tested or found before he came on board. This would be in keeping with the agreement to hire him - to keep the jury from hearing evidence that would implicate Darin.

[philamena]

I want her to get a new trial because then all those claiming Darlie is innocent will realize that Darlie truly is the killer of her children.

[Squishified]

I want her to get a new trial because then all those claiming Darlie is innocent will realize that Darlie truly is the killer of her children.
But she is now on Death Row, isn't she? I would be scared that if she got a new trial she would get LWOP.

[nicola]

Thanks Mary.

I don't think "it's safe to say that Darin's jeans didn't help either side's case" so that's why they weren't admitted into evidence. Apparently, Mulder didn't think he needed to use anything tested or found before he came on board. This would be in keeping with the agreement to hire him - to keep the jury from hearing evidence that would implicate Darin.

That makes sense. The whole Mulder/Darin issue is suspicious to say the least.

IMO the jeans, along with other evidence, should be sent off to be tested, after all there are newer and better ways of testing evidence than there were in the 90's.

[hellolovely]

I voted yes.

I wouldn't say I am on the fence, but maybe I am.

I am a mother and I guess I want to believe that a mother couldn't do this to her own, and so brutally - but we all know that is not true.

But again, if there is a fingerprint in the blood, stray pubic hair - before we put her to death - shouldn't this be checked? If not by trial, some other way?

[whitywendy]

I voted yes.

I wouldn't say I am on the fence, but maybe I am.

I am a mother and I guess I want to believe that a mother couldn't do this to her own, and so brutally - but we all know that is not true.

But again, if there is a fingerprint in the blood, stray pubic hair - before we put her to death - shouldn't this be checked? If not by trial, some other way?

The fingerprint has been tested. They can not rule Darlie out. There is no new evidence to test. She is grasping at straws.

[hellolovely]

oomph - kicked off the fence by WhityWendy!

[whitywendy]

oomph - kicked off the fence by WhityWendy!

:innocent: anytime! No seriously, I have been there and felt the same exact things in regards to this case. I spent over a year contemplating everything and after weighing everything I read in the transcripts along with posts here by some very SMART posters, there is no doubt any longer in my mind. I actually became very sad when I discovered that Darlie murdered her boys.

[cami]

I think for the blood to have ran down his body and into his underwear like that, he would have had to be standing....wet towels or not. But I certainly don't know that for sure. It's JMO.

I can't dismiss the sock. I don't know how it got there. I haven't seen a good explanation for it yet. If Darlie's blood isn't on it, maybe Darin put it there.

I didn't realize Darin's jeans had been tested. Where can I find that?

Yeah maybe he did. Would that lead you to believe that Darin is the killer if he did?

Darlie though had loads of time to put it there too before she was injured so we'll never know unless they tell us.

You have to read Linch's testimony. I think..I know it's Linch though ...to find the answer to your question.

[cami]

Thanks Mary.

I don't think "it's safe to say that Darin's jeans didn't help either side's case" so that's why they weren't admitted into evidence. Apparently, Mulder didn't think he needed to use anything tested or found before he came on board. This would be in keeping with the agreement to hire him - to keep the jury from hearing evidence that would implicate Darin.

Laber didn't find any spatter on the jeans and that's what they would have relied on as evidence on the jeans as it would indicate Darin was present during the stabbings. He would have had a lot of transferred blood on the jeans from working on Devon and checking Damon and being with Darlie. Laber found nothing to indicate from the jeans that Darin was present during the stabbings. So given as he's Darlie's expert, I think it is safe to say the jeans didn't help either side.

I don't think Mulder did that at all. I believe he relied on Laber's opinion of the jeans.

Do you have some proof he kept the jury from hearing evidence? :waitasec:

[cami]

That makes sense. The whole Mulder/Darin issue is suspicious to say the least.

IMO the jeans, along with other evidence, should be sent off to be tested, after all there are newer and better ways of testing evidence than there were in the 90's.

The jeans have been tested. Just out of curiousity, what would you expect to find on Darin's jean? There is very little of the boys' blood on Darlie's shirt but it's the back of her shirt and it's the way it's cast-off that leads to the knife being in her hand. If Darin stabbed the boys wouldn't it make sense that the cast-off blood would be on his back and not his jeans?

It's like the black car, what would you expect to find in a black car when the murder weapon was left at the scene, there is not a speck of blood outside that house and not a thing stolen despite the money, gold and wallet lying there. Oh besides the sock that is, and why would the intruder run down that alley if there was a get away car outside?

[Mary456]

Thanks Mary.

You're welcome, accordn2me.

Apparently, Mulder didn't think he needed to use anything tested or found before he came on board.

That’s because all the items tested pointed to Darlie as the killer. If Laber and Epstein (or any other expert) could have refuted the blood & fiber evidence, Mulder would have had them on the stand in a New York minute. As we’ve said before, Dougie-boy had precious little to work with.

This would be in keeping with the agreement to hire him - to keep the jury from hearing evidence that would implicate Darin.


I assume you’re getting that information from the Darlie camp. First of all, there WAS no evidence to tie Darin to the actual murders, and there still isn't to this day. Secondly, Darlie was adamant, from day one, that she saw the intruder and it was not Darin. Absolutely, positively was not her husband.

What was Mulder supposed to do? Call his client a liar:waitasec:

[accordn2me]

Yeah maybe he did. Would that lead you to believe that Darin is the killer if he did?

Darlie though had loads of time to put it there too before she was injured so we'll never know unless they tell us.

You have to read Linch's testimony. I think..I know it's Linch though ...to find the answer to your question.I have a hard time believing Darlie was the only one that "generated" the evidence. If she is guilty.....I think Darin is as well. Like in a bank robbery, the driver of the get away car is just as guilty as the robber/killers.....I think if Darlie killed and Darin participated in any way including the cover up, he should be on DR the same as she is.

Personally, there are too many things about the evidence presented, and the evidence that was not presented, that are so questionable, I don't feel comfortable with Darlie's death sentence (not that it matters how I feel one whit).

The points made by the debaters in this case are all good ones....from both "sides." I put that word in quotes because I don't consider myself to be on the Routier's side per se. It's just that with so many unanswered questions and things that were never addressed by her defense, I'm alarmed by her conviction. Equally alarming is that if she is guilty, and he is too, he's not on DR! :eek:

[accordn2me]

Laber didn't find any spatter on the jeans and that's what they would have relied on as evidence on the jeans as it would indicate Darin was present during the stabbings. He would have had a lot of transferred blood on the jeans from working on Devon and checking Damon and being with Darlie. Laber found nothing to indicate from the jeans that Darin was present during the stabbings. So given as he's Darlie's expert, I think it is safe to say the jeans didn't help either side.

I don't think Mulder did that at all. I believe he relied on Laber's opinion of the jeans.

Do you have some proof he kept the jury from hearing evidence? :waitasec:The jury heard evidence all right! They didn't hear any defense of the evidence.

ETA: They didn't hear any evidence that implicated Darin.

[accordn2me]

The jeans have been tested. Just out of curiousity, what would you expect to find on Darin's jean? There is very little of the boys' blood on Darlie's shirt but it's the back of her shirt and it's the way it's cast-off that leads to the knife being in her hand. If Darin stabbed the boys wouldn't it make sense that the cast-off blood would be on his back and not his jeans?

It's like the black car, what would you expect to find in a black car when the murder weapon was left at the scene, there is not a speck of blood outside that house and not a thing stolen despite the money, gold and wallet lying there. Oh besides the sock that is, and why would the intruder run down that alley if there was a get away car outside?I don't know what to expect! Good point about "the back." Was the back of Darin's clothes tested?

....."there is not a speck of blood outside that house....." I would say there is not a speck of blood outside that house that was discovered. IMO discovering blood outside the house, especially after the rain storm, would have been nearly impossible.

Maybe the intruder would have ran down the alley if the get away car was back there?

As for the murder weapon.....they found one.....maybe it wasn't the only one....

[accordn2me]

You're welcome, accordn2me.



That’s because all the items tested pointed to Darlie as the killer. If Laber and Epstein (or any other expert) could have refuted the blood & fiber evidence, Mulder would have had them on the stand in a New York minute. As we’ve said before, Dougie-boy had precious little to work with.




I assume you’re getting that information from the Darlie camp. First of all, there WAS no evidence to tie Darin to the actual murders, and there still isn't to this day. Secondly, Darlie was adamant, from day one, that she saw the intruder and it was not Darin. Absolutely, positively was not her husband.

What was Mulder supposed to do? Call his client a liar:waitasec:Mulder wouldn't have had experts that refuted evidence that also implicated Darin. We don't know what Laber and Epstein were going to say since Mulder dismissed them early on (one of the first things he did). Will we ever know if he sought other experts? I haven't even heard a claim that he did.

Because Darlie WAS adamant, from day one, that the intruder was not Darin, maybe that's why the police and later the prosecution didn't pursue that notion. I don't know....

[White Rain]

The jury heard evidence all right! They didn't hear any defense of the evidence.

ETA: They didn't hear any evidence that implicated Darin.


you have said yourself: Darlie's lawyer was hired on the premise that he not pursue or bring up any evidence against Darin....(at least I think, I am out of date on all the lastest news of the case) but anyway...if so then WHY would you expect anyone to introduce any evidence pertaining to him, IF there was any?
This was Darlie's choice in the beginning, she didn't HAVE to agree to these terms, or ask her lawyer to agree to them. hey if I were innocent I'd say "do whatever you can" even IF at the time I thought my hubby were 100% innocent....if evidence COULD be brought up against anyone, FIND IT, I wouldn't care WHO or what family member/friend, etc. it could be.
Darlie ok'd this never thinking she'd be found guilty, but now that she has, throw anyone under the bus in order to gain a possible delay in the death sentence.
Darin did NOT have ANYTHING to do with the murders, IMO, although I do think he MAY have helped cover them up. Darlie and her crew are just grasping at ANY straw they can think of.

[Mary456]

I would say there is not a speck of blood outside that house [COLOR=Red]that was discovered.[COLOR=Black] IMO discovering blood outside the house, especially after the rain storm, would have been nearly impossible.

If there was a rainstorm, it didn't occur until the night of 6/7. By that time, police and detectives had two full days (June 6th and June 7th), from sunup to sundown, to search for blood outside. If it was there, they would have found it.

The thunderstorm was a red herring thrown out by Richard Mosty. From the trial transcript:

Mosty: "There was a large thunderstorm on the night of the 7th, wasn't there?"

Linch: "I don't know."

Mosty: "Do you recollect that there was a rainstorm on the 7th?

Linch: "No."

My point is that it doesn't matter if there was a rainstorm on the evening of June 7th. The yard, the gate, and the alley had been searched for blood long before the pitter patter of possible raindrops.

[SadieMae]

you have said yourself: Darlie's lawyer was hired on the premise that he not pursue or bring up any evidence against Darin....(at least I think, I am out of date on all the lastest news of the case) but anyway...if so then WHY would you expect anyone to introduce any evidence pertaining to him, IF there was any?
This was Darlie's choice in the beginning, she didn't HAVE to agree to these terms, or ask her lawyer to agree to them. hey if I were innocent I'd say "do whatever you can" even IF at the time I thought my hubby were 100% innocent....if evidence COULD be brought up against anyone, FIND IT, I wouldn't care WHO or what family member/friend, etc. it could be.
Darlie ok'd this never thinking she'd be found guilty, but now that she has, throw anyone under the bus in order to gain a possible delay in the death sentence.
Darin did NOT have ANYTHING to do with the murders, IMO, although I do think he MAY have helped cover them up. Darlie and her crew are just grasping at ANY straw they can think of.

I don't think Darin had anything to do with the murders either. It was all Darllie and I don't he did any coverup. I believe he knows Darlie killed the boys.

[whitywendy]

I don't know what to expect! Good point about "the back." Was the back of Darin's clothes tested?

....."there is not a speck of blood outside that house....." I would say there is not a speck of blood outside that house that was discovered. IMO discovering blood outside the house, especially after the rain storm, would have been nearly impossible.

Maybe the intruder would have ran down the alley if the get away car was back there?

As for the murder weapon.....they found one.....maybe it wasn't the only one....

What rain storm? It didn't rain that night/early morning.

As for Darrin - I don't agree that he should be on DR with Darlie. Why should he be punished for her act of violence toward their kids? I honestly believe that Darin was stunned to say the least when he came downstairs that early morning. Yea, he said some of the most stupids things toward the cops that are questionable but imo not in the sense of him being involved with the actually murders.

I do believe however that he did cover up for her. But that does not qualify for the death penalty. You nor I know how we would react to that type of situation. Some people will do anything to protect the ones they love. Lie/Deny. We all know from everything that has been said and read that Darrin loved Darlie.

In regards to the knife. They also can't prove that there was another knife involved.

[accordn2me]

If there was a rainstorm, it didn't occur until the night of 6/7. By that time, police and detectives had two full days (June 6th and June 7th), from sunup to sundown, to search for blood outside. If it was there, they would have found it.

The thunderstorm was a red herring thrown out by Richard Mosty. From the trial transcript:

Mosty: "There was a large thunderstorm on the night of the 7th, wasn't there?"

Linch: "I don't know."

Mosty: "Do you recollect that there was a rainstorm on the 7th?

Linch: "No."

My point is that it doesn't matter if there was a rainstorm on the evening of June 7th. The yard, the gate, and the alley had been searched for blood long before the pitter patter of possible raindrops.I think there was enough INSIDE the house to keep everyone busy for a lot longer than "two full days." Given the fact that a veteran detective.....possibly the most respected detective on the scene....declared virtually immediately that "this was an inside job" I don't think much evidence was searched for on the outside.

I don't remember....how was the sock discovered?

[accordn2me]

you have said yourself: Darlie's lawyer was hired on the premise that he not pursue or bring up any evidence against Darin....(at least I think, I am out of date on all the lastest news of the case) but anyway...if so then WHY would you expect anyone to introduce any evidence pertaining to him, IF there was any?
This was Darlie's choice in the beginning, she didn't HAVE to agree to these terms, or ask her lawyer to agree to them. hey if I were innocent I'd say "do whatever you can" even IF at the time I thought my hubby were 100% innocent....if evidence COULD be brought up against anyone, FIND IT, I wouldn't care WHO or what family member/friend, etc. it could be.
Darlie ok'd this never thinking she'd be found guilty, but now that she has, throw anyone under the bus in order to gain a possible delay in the death sentence.
Darin did NOT have ANYTHING to do with the murders, IMO, although I do think he MAY have helped cover them up. Darlie and her crew are just grasping at ANY straw they can think of.I wouldn't expect Mulder to introduce any evidence pertaining to Darin. That would violate his "contract." If I were innocent, I too would say "do whatever you can" but not at the expense of my husband if I truly believed him to be innocent, or any other family members. That's just me. Likewise, I think if Darin....or any family member participated in a cover up....they too deserve the DP. Again, purely me. I don't expect others to feel the same.

I would expect any attorney, including one with whom I had a "contract" about not implicating my husband, to vigorously defend the contested evidence in my case. Mulder did not do that.

[Jeana (DP)]

The jury heard evidence all right! They didn't hear any defense of the evidence.

ETA: They didn't hear any evidence that implicated Darin.

They can't hear what isn't there.

[Mary456]

I think there was enough INSIDE the house to keep everyone busy for a lot longer than "two full days." ... I don't think much evidence was searched for on the outside.

Well, I guess you can "think" whatever you want. I "think" somebody needs to read the trial transcript :rolleyes:

[mollymalone]

Because Darlie WAS adamant, from day one, that the intruder was not Darin, maybe that's why the police and later the prosecution didn't pursue that notion. I don't know....I don't think so. After LE determined there was no intruder, they were looking at both of them, trying to determine whether both or one of them were responsible.

I don't believe he did the murders but by Darlie's actions and her protestations that he began to know or even believe she'd done it, but for the sake of Drake, he's standing by her. If there'd been any evidence other than being stupid to stick to Darrin, he'd have been charged and sitting on DR too.

[whitywendy]

Well, I guess you can "think" whatever you want. I "think" somebody needs to read the trial transcript :rolleyes:

Yes, I think that you in order to make a fair and correct conclusion, you must "weigh" everything accordingly which would imply that ONE must READ THE ENTIRE TRANSCRIPT. NOT bits and pieces here and there. Try reading a novel/book that way.., now how in the world are you going to know the plot if you don't read it from beginning to end?

[cami]

The jury heard evidence all right! They didn't hear any defense of the evidence.

ETA: They didn't hear any evidence that implicated Darin.


That's because they're isn't any.

[cami]

I don't know what to expect! Good point about "the back." Was the back of Darin's clothes tested?

....."there is not a speck of blood outside that house....." I would say there is not a speck of blood outside that house that was discovered. IMO discovering blood outside the house, especially after the rain storm, would have been nearly impossible.

Maybe the intruder would have ran down the alley if the get away car was back there?

As for the murder weapon.....they found one.....maybe it wasn't the only one....

Darin was bare chested....no the alleged getaway car was seen in front of the routiers house...only one knife presented to the jury, all testimony included that knife. Now you're suggesting there were two intruders, two murder weapons? There's no evidence of one let alone two. And no evidence two knives were used.

There was no blood found outside that house...if there's no blood found immediately around the crime scene, i.e.the point of exit....window ledge, the fence, how can there be "undiscovered blood" somewhere else in the neighbourhood? If you want to continue to accuse the prosecution and the Mulder that's your perrogative....it doesn't make Darlie innocent. There is more than enough evidence, properly gathered, non contaminated that proves she committed this crime. Is Darin complicite too? Find some evidence he is and the state will be happy to prosecute him.

[cami]

The jury heard evidence all right! They didn't hear any defense of the evidence.

ETA: They didn't hear any evidence that implicated Darin.

tsk tsk...Laber is Darlie's expert and he would not have allowed that trial to continue had he found any evidence that implicated Darin...it's right there in his affidavit that there is no blood on the jeans that suggests Darin was present during the stabbings so now you're refuting Darlie's own expert?

[cami]

I think there was enough INSIDE the house to keep everyone busy for a lot longer than "two full days." Given the fact that a veteran detective.....possibly the most respected detective on the scene....declared virtually immediately that "this was an inside job" I don't think much evidence was searched for on the outside.

I don't remember....how was the sock discovered?

You need to get your facts straight According....no one declared immediately it was an inside job...stop listening to the Darlie camp and research on your own.

[cami]

Mulder wouldn't have had experts that refuted evidence that also implicated Darin. We don't know what Laber and Epstein were going to say since Mulder dismissed them early on (one of the first things he did). Will we ever know if he sought other experts? I haven't even heard a claim that he did.

Because Darlie WAS adamant, from day one, that the intruder was not Darin, maybe that's why the police and later the prosecution didn't pursue that notion. I don't know....

Actually Darin was the first suspect. Homicide detectives don't work that way According, everyone in that house was a suspect. Darlie is not that powerful that she could stop the cops or the prosecution from pursuing Darin.

Why don't you read the transcripts from beginning to end. Read the bond hearing, etc., the appeals. I learned a lot from the appeals that I hadn't known before. Read Judge Francis's final findings.

If Darin was the killer, then Darlie had to know and if she knows why hasn't she opened her mouth? Why is she sitting on DR serving his time?

[accordn2me]

Darin was bare chested....no the alleged getaway car was seen in front of the routiers house...only one knife presented to the jury, all testimony included that knife. Now you're suggesting there were two intruders, two murder weapons? There's no evidence of one let alone two. And no evidence two knives were used.

There was no blood found outside that house...if there's no blood found immediately around the crime scene, i.e.the point of exit....window ledge, the fence, how can there be "undiscovered blood" somewhere else in the neighbourhood? If you want to continue to accuse the prosecution and the Mulder that's your perrogative....it doesn't make Darlie innocent. There is more than enough evidence, properly gathered, non contaminated that proves she committed this crime. Is Darin complicite too? Find some evidence he is and the state will be happy to prosecute him.IIRC, Darin claims to have come downstairs (the first time) wearing only his eyeglasses. Didn't that claim change on the stand? If Darin did stab one or both of the boys...or inflicted Darlie's wounds....smart of him to not be wearing a shirt! No evidence found = no evidence, right?

That brings me to my next juvenile statement: just because someone didn't see a get away car in the alley, doesn't mean there wasn't one there. :cool:

Only one knife presented to the jury because that's the one that killed Damon, the only murder being prosecuted. Let me say again, I am impressed with the prosecution. They were practically flawless. I don't believe they tried to frame Darlie. I do think they overstepped professional ethical lines (apparently it was legal) when they did the mock trials (or whatever you want to call them) with all the witnesses present to hear what everyone else was going to testify to on the stand.

If only Mulder had been half as prepared or clever, Darlie may have had a fair defense.

[accordn2me]

tsk tsk...Laber is Darlie's expert and he would not have allowed that trial to continue had he found any evidence that implicated Darin...it's right there in his affidavit that there is no blood on the jeans that suggests Darin was present during the stabbings so now you're refuting Darlie's own expert?Laber was Darlie's expert until Mulder promptly fired him.

I need to read his affidavit. I was under the impression Laber believes that Darlie did not kill her sons.

[accordn2me]

You need to get your facts straight According....no one declared immediately it was an inside job...stop listening to the Darlie camp and research on your own.I saw this detective on TV. HE said he knew it was an inside job within in minutes....OK, maybe within an hour, 60 minutes, of arriving at the house.

[accordn2me]

............................
Why don't you read the transcripts from beginning to end. .......................time.....

If Darin was the killer, then Darlie had to know and if she knows why hasn't she opened her mouth? Why is she sitting on DR serving his time?IMO, if she knows, she's guilty too.....because she tried to cover it up. Same goes for him.

[nicola]

And no evidence two knives were used.



There is evidence that there may have been two knives. If both boys were stabbed by the same knife then blood from both boys wouldve been on the knife. Only one boys blood was found on the knife and it belonged to Damon - Devons blood was not found on the knife. If the same knife was used to kill both boys then why is'nt there at least traces of Devons blood on knife?

[Mary456]

Laber was Darlie's expert until Mulder promptly fired him.

Uhhh, excuse me, but Mulder couldn't fire Laber, because he didn't hire him. See how that works?

[accordn2me]

Uhhh, excuse me, but Mulder couldn't fire Laber, because he didn't hire him. See how that works?
Uhhh, he told Laber his services weren't needed. And Mulder didn't hire another expert.

[whitywendy]

There is evidence that there may have been two knives. If both boys were stabbed by the same knife then blood from both boys wouldve been on the knife. Only one boys blood was found on the knife and it belonged to Damon - Devons blood was not found on the knife. If the same knife was used to kill both boys then why is'nt there at least traces of Devons blood on knife?when Darlie was standing

IMO Devon's blood went down the drain. Which is why the sink and pipes had blood in them.

[Mary456]

Cami's question to Accordn2me: "Why don't you read the transcripts?"

Accordn2me's response: "...time".

How can you find time to post erroneous information on a message board, but don't have the time to read the facts?:rolleyes:

[accordn2me]

Cami's question to Accordn2me: "Why don't you read the transcripts?"

Accordn2me's response: "...time".

How can you find time to post erroneous information on a message board, but don't have the time to read the facts?:rolleyes:Much less time is needed for the latter. :croc: And you know it!

Point: the more I did read of the transcripts, the more I realized how sorry of a defense attorney Mulder was.

OJ and Phil Spector are just two juries that come to mind, who had much more evidence with which to return a guilty verdict....yet they returned with an acquittal on the first and hung on the second. When juries side with the attorneys who are most prepared, flamboyant, popular....etc...it's not always the right decision.

[fox1950]

:waitasec: I voted yes because I have always thought there was more to the story than what was ever uncovered. I find Darlie's actions at the graveyard beyond strange but I do think also the whole truth about what happened that night never came out. I fully understand why everyone thinks she is guilty so please do not get angry over my post. But if Darlie is guility so is someone else, and they too should have their day in court.

Sometime things are not always as they seem.

[cami]

Laber was Darlie's expert until Mulder promptly fired him.

I need to read his affidavit. I was under the impression Laber believes that Darlie did not kill her sons.

Well no, Mulder couldn't fire Laber..he didn't hire him, the pd's did.

Laber did not release his findings so we don't know what his beliefs are.

[cami]

time.....

IMO, if she knows, she's guilty too.....because she tried to cover it up. Same goes for him.


Well if you don't have time to read the only source material, why are you here slamming Mulder and trying to refute evidence that you "think" incriminates Darin and not Darlie. All the issues you have brought up here are straight from the Darlie camp.

What's your analysis of the bloody imprint of the murder weapon on that nice white carpeting?

[cami]

There is evidence that there may have been two knives. If both boys were stabbed by the same knife then blood from both boys wouldve been on the knife. Only one boys blood was found on the knife and it belonged to Damon - Devons blood was not found on the knife. If the same knife was used to kill both boys then why is'nt there at least traces of Devons blood on knife?

Go read it in the transcripts Nic. You can't conceive that Darlie wiped the knife with one of those towels she says she used to aid the boys? And I agree with Wendy.....Devon's blood went down the kitchen sink if there was any on it. You have to realize that there was probably very little of Devon's blood on the knife, the wounds were not spurting wounds but seepage wounds. Devon's blood could have been removed when Damon was stabbed and when Darlie used the knife on herself. That rag she was holding to her neck wasn't analyzed was it?

Two knives, two intruders???? Well we've only heard of one and why would he use the Routier's knife on Darlie and Damon and a separate knife on Devon? Doesn't make sense.

The second-knife story has been spread by the family.

[cami]

Much less time is needed for the latter. :croc: And you know it!

Point: the more I did read of the transcripts, the more I realized how sorry of a defense attorney Mulder was.

OJ and Phil Spector are just two juries that come to mind, who had much more evidence with which to return a guilty verdict....yet they returned with an acquittal on the first and hung on the second. When juries side with the attorneys who are most prepared, flamboyant, popular....etc...it's not always the right decision.

Oh get real, the OJ jury was inflamed by the tapes, there is no way they were going to find OJ guilty. Judge Ito handed oj that walk when he allowed those tapes to be heard by the jury.

There's more than enough evidence to prove Darlie committed this crime, the jury made the right decision and the appeals courts have confirmed it.

[cami]

:waitasec: I voted yes because I have always thought there was more to the story than what was ever uncovered. I find Darlie's actions at the graveyard beyond strange but I do think also the whole truth about what happened that night never came out. I fully understand why everyone thinks she is guilty so please do not get angry over my post. But if Darlie is guility so is someone else, and they too should have their day in court.

Sometime things are not always as they seem.

Oh we wouldn't do that Fox.....but Darlie was convicted on physical evidence...not the graveyard dance.

[cami]

IIRC, Darin claims to have come downstairs (the first time) wearing only his eyeglasses. Didn't that claim change on the stand? If Darin did stab one or both of the boys...or inflicted Darlie's wounds....smart of him to not be wearing a shirt! No evidence found = no evidence, right?

Yeah okay, I can see how that is very incriminating. Why would Darin be wearing a shirt to bed? LOL Sorry I don't mean to LOL but this is pretty funny to me. And Darlie's changing her "I was fighting him" to "frightening" on the stand means she also lied under oath while testifying...we've told you again and again that both Darin and Darlie lied their heads off during their testimony.

That brings me to my next juvenile statement: just because someone didn't see a get away car in the alley, doesn't mean there wasn't one there. :cool:

Oh okay two getaway cars now are there? One in the alley and one out in front of the house. See this is why is so important to read the transcripts.

Only one knife presented to the jury because that's the one that killed Damon, the only murder being prosecuted. Let me say again, I am impressed with the prosecution. They were practically flawless. I don't believe they tried to frame Darlie. I do think they overstepped professional ethical lines (apparently it was legal) when they did the mock trials (or whatever you want to call them) with all the witnesses present to hear what everyone else was going to testify to on the stand.

Well we've already discussed the knife in the other posts. And once again, the transcripts answer the knife question.BTW, did you know the practice of "mock trials" was started by Mulder when he was a prosecutor.

If only Mulder had been half as prepared or clever, Darlie may have had a fair defense.

Really? and if only you would read the complete transcript you see how incorrect you are but Darlie supporters stay right away from the evidence that convicted her. They love to blame Mulder for her conviction. He didn't get her convicted...her own actions did that.

[White Rain]

Really? and if only you would read the complete transcript you see how incorrect you are but Darlie supporters stay right away from the evidence that convicted her. They love to blame Mulder for her conviction. He didn't get her convicted...her own actions did that.


:clap: Why is that so hard for people to understand?

[rocking]

I see both points here. The evidence in the transcripts that convicted her, may not be all the evidence that was available. I think this forms the complaint about Mulder.

[rocking]

There were 54 pages in the transcript that needed to be reconstructed. These were done by a new reporter who was not present at the trial. She used stenographic material and audio tapes. Audio tapes were illegal, but still used.

Do not care about guilt or innocence as due process has not been followed.

[JuJuBee]

Primarily Drake's parenting is being taken care of by his grandparents (Do they still have custody?) and his dad. If she was really that concerned about being a good parent, she'd never have killed his two older siblings.Did you see the jailhouse interview where she cries about missing Devon's first steps, etc? All I could think was what about Devon's prom? Damon's first varsity football game? She never cries about those two, just about Drake. It's really wierd.

And no, I don't think she deserves a new trial. I think the evidence should be retested just to shut her the hell up, but I don't think she deserves a new trial.

[JuJuBee]

The state didn't prosecute Darlie for Devon's murder on the chance that she could have been found innocent of Damon's murder...then they would have a second chance to put her where she belongs by prosecuting her for Devon's. EXTREMELY SMART MOVE, imo.Exactly. That's also why Andrea Yates was only prosecuted for the murder of three of her five children (if memory serves, it was Noah, Mary, and John) -- if she'd been found innocent of those murders they could have tried her for the other two.

Here is something that interests me -- even if Darlie were able to get her conviction for Devon's murder overturned, wouldn't she still be liable to prosecution for Damon's?

One more thing: Why was Darin wearing jeans? Was he sleeping in them? Did he stop to put them on before he came downstairs? If you wake up in the middle of the night and hear screaming from the living room and think someone is murdering your wife and children, do you stop to get dressed, or do you just beat feet for the scene of trouble wearing whatever you had on when you woke up?

[rocking]

Exactly. That's also why Andrea Yates was only prosecuted for the murder of three of her five children (if memory serves, it was Noah, Mary, and John) -- if she'd been found innocent of those murders they could have tried her for the other two.

Here is something that interests me -- even if Darlie were able to get her conviction for Devon's murder overturned, wouldn't she still be liable to prosecution for Damon's?

One more thing: Why was Darin wearing jeans? Was he sleeping in them? Did he stop to put them on before he came downstairs? If you wake up in the middle of the night and hear screaming from the living room and think someone is murdering your wife and children, do you stop to get dressed, or do you just beat feet for the scene of trouble wearing whatever you had on when you woke up?

Darlie was prosecuted for Damon's murder because he was under 6 years of age. In Texas, at the time (probably still exists) any murder of a child under the age of 6, was AUTOMATIC death penalty. To think of it as a type of insurance policy is ridiculous. If she wasn't convicted of Damon's murder, then there was no way she could be found guilty of Devons.

[White Rain]

Darlie was prosecuted for Damon's murder because he was under 6 years of age. In Texas, at the time (probably still exists) any murder of a child under the age of 6, was AUTOMATIC death penalty. To think of it as a type of insurance policy is ridiculous. If she wasn't convicted of Damon's murder, then there was no way she could be found guilty of Devons.

Of course she COULD have been found guilty of Devon's murder. It doesn't matter if she had gotten away with it once, the second time around could have bit her in the behind.

[rocking]

Of course she COULD have been found guilty of Devon's murder. It doesn't matter if she had gotten away with it once, the second time around could have bit her in the behind.

Damon's murder was prosecuted first, because his age made it possible for automatic DP. This made the trial cheaper, and shorter. There was no insurance policy.

If Routier was found not guilty, how could they hold another trial for Devon's murder. The DA's office couldn't afford the expense. Same night, same sequence of events, just a different victim. What's different? It would throw the whole jury system, and justice system into turmoil if she were to be found guilty of Devon's murder at a subsequent trial. Not to mention the appeals process that would ensue. How could the public endorse their system of justice, if opposite verdicts came from the same case?

[Squishified]

Hello rocking,

I don't post a lot on the Darlie board, but I do keep up with it. If Darlie had been found not guilty on Damon's murder, I believe the prosecution would go ahead and start another trial for Devon.
I'm sure this has happened in other cases. I can't think of any off hand, but I'm sure other sleuthers can find an example.
And welcome to WS. I love our Australian sleuthers! :)

[rocking]

Hello rocking,

I don't post a lot on the Darlie board, but I do keep up with it. If Darlie had been found not guilty on Damon's murder, I believe the prosecution would go ahead and start another trial for Devon.
I'm sure this has happened in other cases. I can't think of any off hand, but I'm sure other sleuthers can find an example.
And welcome to WS. I love our Australian sleuthers! :)

Another trial for Devon, which is basically the same crime, is close enough to being double jeopardy. If she killed one child, then she must have killed the other. How can they prosecute if found not guilty of Damon's murder? It's just not logical. It's a moot point anyway.

[accordn2me]

Another trial for Devon, which is basically the same crime, is close enough to being double jeopardy. If she killed one child, then she must have killed the other. How can they prosecute if found not guilty of Damon's murder? It's just not logical. It's a moot point anyway.At this point, it's moot. However, were Darlie acquitted of Damon's murder, my guess is she would have been tried for Devon's. Fact is, she could have killed one, the other, or both. I can't see how Darin wasn't involved if she was. IMO, if one is guilty, they both are. JMOO.

You have to hand it to this prosecution team. They were brilliant from beginning to end. Too bad the defense wasn't half as spectacular.

[2sisters]

I voted no, but sure why not. Just for the hell of it and that way anyones doubts can be laid to rest. she will be found guilty again, so why is she even bothering?

[rocking]

At this point, it's moot. However, were Darlie acquitted of Damon's murder, my guess is she would have been tried for Devon's. Fact is, she could have killed one, the other, or both. I can't see how Darin wasn't involved if she was. IMO, if one is guilty, they both are. JMOO.

You have to hand it to this prosecution team. They were brilliant from beginning to end. Too bad the defense wasn't half as spectacular.

How could she be convicted of one and not the other? It's ludicrous. To prosecute for Devon's murder, they would need new evidence. Darin or 'the intruder'.

I agree about the defense. Don't think there was one! Look at the time between the crime and the trial, very unusual for a high profile murder. Also consider the time that was involved in the transfer of the trial to Kerryville. That all happened in a short period of time.

[Mary456]

I agree about the defense. Don't think there was one!

That's because you haven't read the transcript.

Look at the time between the crime and the trial, very unusual for a high profile murder.

It's not unusual at all. Defendants have the right to a speedy trial.

Also consider the time that was involved in the transfer of the trial to Kerryville. That all happened in a short period of time.

Do you mean Kerrville? Darlie's lawyer requested a change of venue, because he didn't think she could get a fair trial in Dallas. The judge granted his request, and the trial was moved.

[MCDRAW]

Defendants do have a right to a speedy trial...it just doesn't happen all that often. Just my opinion.

[whitywendy]

You have to hand it to this prosecution team. They were brilliant from beginning to end. Too bad the defense wasn't half as spectacular.

As I was reading the transcripts I did wonder why her team wasn't as aggressive as the prosecution but by the time I finished I came to the conclusion it was because he really didn't have a defense because of who his client was. It is all plainly clear in those transcripts.

[Squishified]

It would NOT be double jeopardy if Darlie were tried for Devon's murder.

[Jeana (DP)]

Darlie was prosecuted for Damon's murder because he was under 6 years of age. In Texas, at the time (probably still exists) any murder of a child under the age of 6, was AUTOMATIC death penalty. To think of it as a type of insurance policy is ridiculous. If she wasn't convicted of Damon's murder, then there was no way she could be found guilty of Devons.



There is no such thing as an AUTOMATIC death penalty.

[Jeana (DP)]

Damon's murder was prosecuted first, because his age made it possible for automatic DP. This made the trial cheaper, and shorter. There was no insurance policy.

If Routier was found not guilty, how could they hold another trial for Devon's murder. The DA's office couldn't afford the expense. Same night, same sequence of events, just a different victim. What's different? It would throw the whole jury system, and justice system into turmoil if she were to be found guilty of Devon's murder at a subsequent trial. Not to mention the appeals process that would ensue. How could the public endorse their system of justice, if opposite verdicts came from the same case?

Wrong. The Dallas County District Attorney's office would have no financial motive for avoiding a second trial. I love your expression "just a different victim." This sounds very much the way Darlie thought of her children. Just another. . . How very sad. Unfortunately for her, the State of Texas doesn't think of him as "just another." Here, each life is valuable on its own and each victim is entitled to a sentence should the State decide its in the best interest of justice to seek one.

Moreover, since in keeping with our system of justice, the particular jury for each case must find enough evidence to convict the defendant. The reasons for only trying her for one of the murders was explained to you. If you don't agree with it, that's your right; however, its not uncommon for prosecutors to hold back a case in instances such as this because once in a blue moon, there is a juror who doesn't see the case the way it is. The State reserves the right to do this and while it may not be the way things are handled where you live, it works for us.

[2sisters]

Darlie is guilty but the more I have been thinking about it, she should get a new triel. There is doubt for some people and she has so many supporters. a new trial or even just trying her for the other child would silence her supporters and the these 2 boys rest in peace.

[whitywendy]

Wrong. The Dallas County District Attorney's office would have no financial motive for avoiding a second trial. I love your expression "just a different victim." This sounds very much the way Darlie thought of her children. Just another. . . How very sad. Unfortunately for her, the State of Texas doesn't think of him as "just another." Here, each life is valuable on its own and each victim is entitled to a sentence should the State decide its in the best interest of justice to seek one.

Moreover, since in keeping with our system of justice, the particular jury for each case must find enough evidence to convict the defendant. The reasons for only trying her for one of the murders was explained to you. If you don't agree with it, that's your right; however, its not uncommon for prosecutors to hold back a case in instances such as this because once in a blue moon, there is a juror who doesn't see the case the way it is. The State reserves the right to do this and while it may not be the way things are handled where you live, it works for us.

:clap::clap::clap: Very well stated Jeana. You know what, I feel bad for saying this but I was happy to find out that Baby Grace's "so called parents" were residing in TEXAS. Because IF ANY STATE IN THIS COUNTRY DOES SERVE JUSTICE IT IS TEXAS. IMO

[Jeana (DP)]

Darlie is guilty but the more I have been thinking about it, she should get a new triel. There is doubt for some people and she has so many supporters. a new trial or even just trying her for the other child would silence her supporters and the these 2 boys rest in peace.

We don't hand out new trials simply because the accused gets a few supporters because their family tells lies about the first trial. How two little boys who were butchered by their mother while they slept can EVER rest is peace is beyond me. I don't think its possible.

[Jeana (DP)]

:clap::clap::clap: Very well stated Jeana. You know what, I feel bad for saying this but I was happy to find out that Baby Grace's "so called parents" were residing in TEXAS. Because IF ANY STATE IN THIS COUNTRY DOES SERVE JUSTICE IT IS TEXAS. IMO

As did I. I think its a very sad case indeed.

[2sisters]

We don't hand out new trials simply because the accused gets a few supporters because their family tells lies about the first trial. How two little boys who were butchered by their mother while they slept can EVER rest is peace is beyond me. I don't think its possible.
I am just looking for something to stop this insanity so that folks will remember who the real victims are here. If it takes another guilty verdict at trail then so be it. I don't mean they shoudl do it just to pander to her fan club.

[whitywendy]

As did I. I think its a very sad case indeed.

Yes, very heartbreaking, I keep looking at my little 2 year old wondering WTH? HOW, WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!! It makes me sick. What in the world is wrong with "these" people to be so evil....

[Jeana (DP)]

I am just looking for something to stop this insanity so that folks will remember who the real victims are here. If it takes another guilty verdict at trail then so be it. I don't mean they shoudl do it just to pander to her fan club.

I don't think a dozen trials will ever convince those who refuse to see the evidence, do you? I would agree that she should get a new trial if she would agree that if she was convicted again, she would give up her appeals and get executed immediately, like that day, but I seriously doubt that she or the State would agree to those terms!!! LOL

[whitywendy]

I don't think a dozen trials will ever convince those who refuse to see the evidence, do you? I would agree that she should get a new trial if she would agree that if she was convicted again, she would give up her appeals and get executed immediately, like that day, but I seriously doubt that she or the State would agree to those terms!!! LOL

Oh great idea!!! Too bad it won't happen.....

[2sisters]

Yes, very heartbreaking, I keep looking at my little 2 year old wondering WTH? HOW, WHY!!!!!!!!!!!!! It makes me sick. What in the world is wrong with "these" people to be so evil....
The boys should now be 18 and 16, correct? That makes it even sadder to think of how old they should be and what they should be doing today.

[JuJuBee]

The boys should now be 18 and 16, correct? That makes it even sadder to think of how old they should be and what they should be doing today.Yes. The exact same age as my stepsons, which makes me very sad when I look at them and think, Devon and Damon should be playing football and going to prom and all those things.

[whitywendy]

Yes. The exact same age as my stepsons, which makes me very sad when I look at them and think, Devon and Damon should be playing football and going to prom and all those things.

I wonder if she thinks about that too. Willing to bet she doesn't.

[rocking]

There is no such thing as an AUTOMATIC death penalty.

I'm pretty sure I'm right here, but in 1997 if your were convicted of capital murder of a person under the age of 6, then the sentence was automatic DP.

As to one of your other posts, 'just another victim', be pedantic but I value the needless destruction of anyone's life.

[White Rain]

I'm pretty sure I'm right here, but in 1997 if your were convicted of capital murder of a person under the age of 6, then the sentence was automatic DP.

As to one of your other posts, 'just another victim', be pedantic but I value the needless destruction of anyone's life.

Please provide a link as to the automatic death penalty, as I couldn't find anything saying that...
also at the risk of looking like a fool in front of everyone would you please state what "pedantic" means....

[Grogmonster]

Please provide a link as to the automatic death penalty, as I couldn't find anything saying that...
also at the risk of looking like a fool in front of everyone would you please state what "pedantic" means....lol lol mmm got me thinkin too:waitasec:

[rocking]

Please provide a link as to the automatic death penalty, as I couldn't find anything saying that...
also at the risk of looking like a fool in front of everyone would you please state what "pedantic" means....

Links for the automatic dp for victims under 6 years of age are all over the place. Dont know if they still apply, but did back when Routier went to court. The quickest link is to go to the 'justice for darlie' and view the 48 hours video. This was also at the time when they sent 15 year olds to jail, in a major penitentiary and not to juvenile detention. Can you imagine their rehabilitation?

Pedantic means to follow the strict definition of a word. I think I used the term "just another victim". The poster played on my word 'just', playing that I didn't respect Devon. That is ridiculous, malicious, and a weak way of defending an argument.

[miss_vegemite]

Pedantic means to follow the strict definition of a word. I think I used the term "just another victim". The poster played on my word 'just', playing that I didn't respect Devon. That is ridiculous, malicious, and a weak way of defending an argument.

Well I have to say that when I read your comment "just another victim" I found it to be very callous and shallow. That's how you came across to myself and possibly others. I do not think the writer was at all being pedantic, just caring...

[whitywendy]

Please provide a link as to the automatic death penalty, as I couldn't find anything saying that...
also at the risk of looking like a fool in front of everyone would you please state what "pedantic" means....


Right with you chick - what does that word mean!

[whitywendy]

Well I have to say that when I read your comment "just another victim" I found it to be very callous and shallow. That's how you came across to myself and possibly others. I do not think the writer was at all being pedantic, just caring...

Vegemite - your words are flowing so well....:clap::clap::blowkiss:

I also felt the same way when reading the post. But sometimes I have to remind myself that when someone takes a professional approach toward an issue, that sometimes the words do sound callous and shallow.

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm pretty sure I'm right here, but in 1997 if your were convicted of capital murder of a person under the age of 6, then the sentence was automatic DP.

As to one of your other posts, 'just another victim', be pedantic but I value the needless destruction of anyone's life.

No, you're incorrect. Its up to the District Attorney's office to ask for the death penalty. Its NEVER been automatic.

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm pretty sure I'm right here, but in 1997 if your were convicted of capital murder of a person under the age of 6, then the sentence was automatic DP.

As to one of your other posts, 'just another victim', be pedantic but I value the needless destruction of anyone's life.

Let's see if this can help you out:

Texas procedure generally

In Texas, the district courts have original jurisdiction for all criminal felony cases. If an individual is convicted of a capital felony, he or she may be subject to punishment by death, if the State sought such punishment. A capital felony is one in which an individual "intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual," under special circumstances. In particular, the: murder of a public safety officer, firefighter, or correctional employee; murder during the commission of specified felonies (kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated rape, arson); murder for remuneration; multiple murders; murder during prison escape; murder of a correctional officer; murder by a state prison inmate who is serving a life sentence for any of five offenses; [or] murder of an individual under six years of age.
In Texas, a person must be of at least 17 years of age at the time of the crime to have the death penalty imposed upon him or her.
After the verdict is rendered, if the defendant is found guilty, the case is automatically appealed to the Court of Criminal Appeals.


Did you see the bold and underlined portion? That's where you seem to have the glitch.

[Jeana (DP)]

Links for the automatic dp for victims under 6 years of age are all over the place. Dont know if they still apply, but did back when Routier went to court. The quickest link is to go to the 'justice for darlie' and view the 48 hours video. This was also at the time when they sent 15 year olds to jail, in a major penitentiary and not to juvenile detention. Can you imagine their rehabilitation?

Pedantic means to follow the strict definition of a word. I think I used the term "just another victim". The poster played on my word 'just', playing that I didn't respect Devon. That is ridiculous, malicious, and a weak way of defending an argument.

I didn't see any argument. Just some meaningless words on a page. So far, you haven't made a competent argument for anything.

[Mary456]

Darlie is guilty but the more I have been thinking about it, she should get a new triel. There is doubt for some people and she has so many supporters.

I question whether she has a lot of supporters. Seems more like a handful of very vocal supporters;)

a new trial or even just trying her for the other child would silence her supporters and the these 2 boys rest in peace.

There's no silencing that group; even a new trial wouldn't do it. I think the reason it's taking so long to rule on more DNA testing is that it will set a precedent, one that defense lawyers can cite - for years to come - in order to buy time for their clients. If they grant retesting in Darlie's case, without some very valid reasons for doing so, they'll have to grant it to other death-row inmates.

I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying that it's a difficult and far-reaching decision.

[rocking]

Let's see if this can help you out:

Texas procedure generally

In Texas, the district courts have original jurisdiction for all criminal felony cases. If an individual is convicted of a capital felony, he or she may be subject to punishment by death, if the State sought such punishment. A capital felony is one in which an individual "intentionally or knowingly causes the death of an individual," under special circumstances. In particular, the: murder of a public safety officer, firefighter, or correctional employee; murder during the commission of specified felonies (kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated rape, arson); murder for remuneration; multiple murders; murder during prison escape; murder of a correctional officer; murder by a state prison inmate who is serving a life sentence for any of five offenses; [or] murder of an individual under six years of age.
In Texas, a person must be of at least 17 years of age at the time of the crime to have the death penalty imposed upon him or her.
After the verdict is rendered, if the defendant is found guilty, the case is automatically appealed to the Court of Criminal Appeals.


Did you see the bold and underlined portion? That's where you seem to have the glitch.

OK. I take your point. It is still easier to get the DP if you prosecute someone that meets the criteria, rather than going through double/separate trials.

[rocking]

I question whether she has a lot of supporters. Seems more like a handful of very vocal supporters;)



There's no silencing that group; even a new trial wouldn't do it. I think the reason it's taking so long to rule on more DNA testing is that it will set a precedent, one that defense lawyers can cite - for years to come - in order to buy time for their clients. If they grant retesting in Darlie's case, without some very valid reasons for doing so, they'll have to grant it to other death-row inmates.

I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying that it's a difficult and far-reaching decision.

You are right there. Another case I was following was the West Memphis Three in Arkansas. The eldest of the three was 18 at the time and he has the DP. The other two, basically have LWOP. That was in 1993. DNA evidence has come in, which does not implicate them but may suggest another person.

Some have said that it could mean many more years, before a retrial is even considered.

[kazzbar]

You are right there. Another case I was following was the West Memphis Three in Arkansas. The eldest of the three was 18 at the time and he has the DP. The other two, basically have LWOP. That was in 1993. DNA evidence has come in, which does not implicate them but may suggest another person.

Some have said that it could mean many more years, before a retrial is even considered.Come join us in the west Memphis Three thread... we like 'new' views.
Welcome to Websleuths.

[rocking]

I question whether she has a lot of supporters. Seems more like a handful of very vocal supporters;)



There's no silencing that group; even a new trial wouldn't do it. I think the reason it's taking so long to rule on more DNA testing is that it will set a precedent, one that defense lawyers can cite - for years to come - in order to buy time for their clients. If they grant retesting in Darlie's case, without some very valid reasons for doing so, they'll have to grant it to other death-row inmates.

I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying that it's a difficult and far-reaching decision.

Mary, don't see it has a handful of supporters. With the current moratorium on the DP, I see many years to go, before any significant events occur in this case.

[miss_vegemite]

Mary, don't see it has a handful of supporters. I have checked widely in my research, and this is the strongest forum in saying Darlie Routier is guilty.

There are the obvious pro Darlie forums such as Prison Talk, but I have found more Pro than Anti. That doesn't mean that the posters are not the same people, just different user names. I've seen a few familiar names on this board on the 'Pro' forums.


The law has found her guilty. But to me, that doesn't mean following blindly without questioning and researching the facts throughly and coming to my own conclusions. I did initially doubt that this woman could possibly be guilty of such a horrendious crime. It wasn't until I read and then re-read the transcripts and all other materials I could find as fact, that I came to my conclusion she IS guilty.

[Jeana (DP)]

Mary, don't see it has a handful of supporters. I have checked widely in my research, and this is the strongest forum in saying Darlie Routier is guilty.

There are the obvious pro Darlie forums such as Prison Talk, but I have found more Pro than Anti. That doesn't mean that the posters are not the same people, just different user names. I've seen a few familiar names on this board on the 'Pro' forums.

With the current moratorium on the DP, I see many years to go, before any significant events occur in this case.

There is no current moratorium on the DP in Texas.

[whitywendy]

There is no current moratorium on the DP in Texas.


THANK GOD!!!:innocent:

[Desilu]

Come join us in the west Memphis Three thread... we like 'new' views.
Welcome to Websleuths.
Oh where is the thread? That is one case that fascinates me, that I've been reading thru Callahan site for years it seems now.

[Jeana (DP)]

Oh where is the thread? That is one case that fascinates me, that I've been reading thru Callahan site for years it seems now.

Here it is:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=51981&highlight=West+Memphis+Three

[rocking]

There is no current moratorium on the DP in Texas.

OK, there is not an official moratorium on the DP in Texas, but with all executions being successfully appealed from all states until SCOTUS rules on lethal injection; then as this quote states:

"A sudden halt to executions in Texas, the United States’s most active death penalty state, may signal that there is now an unofficial national moratorium in place across the nation, pending a ruling by the Supreme Court on whether a specific lethal injection cocktail is legal."

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/05/4332/

[cami]

How could she be convicted of one and not the other? It's ludicrous. To prosecute for Devon's murder, they would need new evidence. Darin or 'the intruder'.

I agree about the defense. Don't think there was one! Look at the time between the crime and the trial, very unusual for a high profile murder. Also consider the time that was involved in the transfer of the trial to Kerryville. That all happened in a short period of time.

No, they wouldn't. Prosecutors never bring all the evidence to trial.

[rocking]

No, they wouldn't. Prosecutors never bring all the evidence to trial.

OK. Now, I have been accused of being hostile etc. which I haven't been. I have posted that I'm looking at the trial and justice process. That's all. I am not questioning Darlie Routier's guilt or innocence.

I sincerely hope that the right person is in jail, and hate the thought that there could be a child killer still at loose.

However, by virtue of your statement, and I have seen your name on many different boards (accepted that it could be someone impersonating you), you have said that "Prosecutors never bring all the evidence to trial".

That is the very issue I am looking at, and it should concern everyone.

What evidence wasn't brought to trial?

[Jeana (DP)]

OK, there is not an official moratorium on the DP in Texas, but with all executions being successfully appealed from all states until SCOTUS rules on lethal injection; then as this quote states:

"A sudden halt to executions in Texas, the United States’s most active death penalty state, may signal that there is now an unofficial national moratorium in place across the nation, pending a ruling by the Supreme Court on whether a specific lethal injection cocktail is legal."

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/10/05/4332/




Simply because there is something on the internet, that doesn't make it true.

[cami]

OK. Now, I have been accused of being hostile etc. which I haven't been. I have posted that I'm looking at the trial and justice process. That's all. I am not questioning Darlie Routier's guilt or innocence.

I sincerely hope that the right person is in jail, and hate the thought that there could be a child killer still at loose.

However, by virtue of your statement, and I have seen your name on many different boards (accepted that it could be someone impersonating you), you have said that "Prosecutors never bring all the evidence to trial".

That is the very issue I am looking at, and it should concern everyone.

What evidence wasn't brought to trial?

I've not accused you of being hostile..just the opposite. Do you consider my post hostile? It's you Sheilas who are hostile with each other.

Who knows what evidence wasn't brought to trial..that's something the DA would keep close to his vest I think, I live in Canada so our system is a bit different from the US. We don't have a DP. And I think Jeana already it explained it to you on this thread in an earlier post.

Yes, it's me you've seen on many different boards. Darlie and Ice pick baby killer Jeffrey MacDonald boards...I post on those two cases...well not on MacDonald that much anymore actually.

[cami]

There were 54 pages in the transcript that needed to be reconstructed. These were done by a new reporter who was not present at the trial. She used stenographic material and audio tapes. Audio tapes were illegal, but still used.

Do not care about guilt or innocence as due process has not been followed.

Can you provide documentation that proves that audio tapes used by a court reporter are illegal? Never heard of that. I see court clerks using audio equipment all the time.

[cami]

OK. I take your point. It is still easier to get the DP if you prosecute someone that meets the criteria, rather than going through double/separate trials.

And why not ask for the dp in this case? The murder of two tiny boys unable to defend themselves, by their own mother, the DP is the correct punishment here. Is there anything more innocent that a sleeping child?

Damon tried to get away and she stabbed him again to make sure he'd die.

What an evil cow.

I am not a proponent of the DP but in this case I'd cheerfully push the plunger.

[cami]

I saw this detective on TV. HE said he knew it was an inside job within in minutes....OK, maybe within an hour, 60 minutes, of arriving at the house.

You're talking about Cron, he said within 30 minutes of his walkthrough of the house and the outside he knew there was no intruder. With 30 years experience analysing crime scenes, I think he knew what he was talking about.

[Jeana (DP)]

And why not ask for the dp in this case? The murder of two tiny boys unable to defend themselves, by their own mother, the DP is the correct punishment here. Is there anything more innocent that a sleeping child?

Damon tried to get away and she stabbed him again to make sure he'd die.

What an evil cow.

I am not a proponent of the DP but in this case I'd cheerfully push the plunger.

Even if they tried her for both of the boys' murders at the same trial, she would still have been eligible for, and still have received, the death penalty. You can slice it and dice it anyway you'd like, but she would still be in the same place.

[Jeana (DP)]

You're talking about Cron, he said within 30 minutes of his walkthrough of the house and the outside he knew there was no intruder. With 30 years experience analysing crime scenes, I think he knew what he was talking about.

He also said that even though he had his suspicions very shortly after arriving, they still conducted DUAL investigations - one looking for intruder(s) and one involving those individuals in the home.

[rocking]

Simply because there is something on the internet, that doesn't make it true.

Agree. However, another two have been reprieved, for the same reason, in the last two days.

You know it's true, and the word moratorium is spreading, with respect to the DP.

That does not mean people are not being convicted and given the DP; and they are still hearing appeals.

To me, it implies there will be a big list of inmates in line, ready to receive their sentence. Guess that depends on how SCOTUS rules on the Kentucky issue.

[Mary456]

[QUOTE=rocking;1813072]There were 54 pages in the transcript that needed to be reconstructed. These were done by a new reporter who was not present at the trial. She used stenographic material and audio tapes. Audio tapes were illegal, but still used.QUOTE]

Good grief, audio tapes are not illegal! They're commonly used as back-up for court reporters.

[rocking]

[quote=rocking;1813072]There were 54 pages in the transcript that needed to be reconstructed. These were done by a new reporter who was not present at the trial. She used stenographic material and audio tapes. Audio tapes were illegal, but still used.QUOTE]

Good grief, audio tapes are not illegal! They're commonly used as back-up for court reporters.

Correct, they may be used as backup to stenographic notes. Fine, just to clear a point here or there.

They (in 1997) could not be used to REPLACE missing pages. The audio was for a missing word or phrase, and that is legal. It was not legal for 54 non-sensical pages. For obvious reasons an audiotape can be 'doctored', and can only be used minimally. What could people do with audiotapes that contain 54 pages of testimony?

Slightly off-topic, but there is a really interesting article about how Dallas, maintains its' court reporters' records. Not related to this case, but there is a real problem. I'll post the link.

[Mary456]

Actually Darin was the first suspect.

That's true, Cami. Even Darlie Kee acknowledges, in the Women on Death Row program, that the police initially suspected Darin.

Darlie Kee's exact words: "They absolutely did not think it was Darlie; they thought it was Darin, because he was kept away from us and he wasn't injured."

I wish I had a nickel for every time, over the last nine years, supporters have sworn up and down that the police never even looked at Darin. I would be rolling in the dough, and they would - or at least, should - have to admit one of two things:

1. They were wrong or
2. Darlie Kee is lying

It's called a "lose-lose, between a rock and a hard place" situation:croc:

[Jeana (DP)]

Agree. However, another two have been reprieved, for the same reason, in the last two days.

You know it's true, and the word moratorium is spreading, with respect to the DP.

That does not mean people are not being convicted and given the DP; and they are still hearing appeals.

To me, it implies there will be a big list of inmates in line, ready to receive their sentence. Guess that depends on how SCOTUS rules on the Kentucky issue.

Please don't tell me what I know is true. I have no reason to lie about anything, but especially about something that can be checked out simply by a click of the mouse. Unfortunately, Texas isn't planning on executing anyone until February, so we'll have to wait and see whether they carry it out or not and, if not, why.

And, while I hate having to correct you once again, one county in Texas IS NOT seeking the death penalty until they have a closer look at the system in their county, so you have it completely backward.

[Mary456]

They (in 1997) could not be used to REPLACE missing pages.

There were no missing pages in the transcript, rocking.



The audio was for a missing word or phrase, and that is legal. It was not legal for 54 non-sensical pages.

Much ado about nothing. The first 54 pages of Volume 10 contained no witness testimony. It’s simply a record of pre-trial formalities, such as reading the indictment, Darlie’s plea of not guilty, the judge’s explanation of presumption of innocence, reasonable doubt, etc. Pretty routine stuff. I’d like to know what you found to be non-sensical in those pages, because I’ve read them several times & they make sense to me. (For anyone who’s interested, we’re referring to Volume 10 of the trial transcript, available on Darlie’s website).

The Court has ruled on this matter: “The Court finds that the pages flowed smoothly, there did not appear to be gaps or lapses, and the steno notes appeared to cover everything in that portion of the record…Simmons believes the record is an accurate reconstruction of the steno notes.” Not to mention that there were 27 hearings on the accuracy of the record, and Darlie's appeal lawyers didn't dispute a single thing that was reported in the steno notes.



For obvious reasons an audiotape can be 'doctored', and can only be used minimally. What could people do with audiotapes that contain 54 pages of testimony?

Well, I suppose they could use them as toilet paper, but those 54 pages didn't come from audiotapes. They came from the court reporter's records. The prosecutors, as well as Darlie's original defense attorneys (Doug Parks and Wayne Huff) confirmed in affidavits that the record accurately reflects what happened in the courtroom that day.

[roulons]

Yes, Darlie Routier should have a new trial. I strongly believe there was an intruder(s) and that it was a revenge attack - possibly drug-related.

[Kitty5001]

Yes, Darlie Routier should have a new trial. I strongly believe there was an intruder(s) and that it was a revenge attack - possibly drug-related.

Revenge for what??? Drug related? The Routiers were not drug dealers and have you even read the transcripts?

[cami]

Yes, Darlie Routier should have a new trial. I strongly believe there was an intruder(s) and that it was a revenge attack - possibly drug-related.

Revenge! Two little boys? What did they do to bring a revenge killing down on them?

[Blink34]

I am new to this site, but have lurked for months- This case has fascinated me by all documented accounts from initial reporting through Darli's appellate process-
Am I the only person thats says somebody feed Darli info that Darrin is seeing a hot blonde while she's in the klink and watch her sing like a bird?
I feel that is the only way anyone will ever know what is actual- until then, neither one will confess as they both have something to lose.

[miss_vegemite]

I am new to this site, but have lurked for months- This case has fascinated me by all documented accounts from initial reporting through Darli's appellate process-
Am I the only person thats says somebody feed Darli info that Darrin is seeing a hot blonde while she's in the klink and watch her sing like a bird?
I feel that is the only way anyone will ever know what is actual- until then, neither one will confess as they both have something to lose.

I would love to see her reaction to that:crazy: ..

[Mary456]

Revenge! Two little boys? What did they do to bring a revenge killing down on them?

They really, really ticked Darlie off :rolleyes:

[Blink34]

I would love to see her reaction to that:crazy: ..
If I were LE I would send her anonymously pics of a hot blonde coming out of his house, CGI his pic and the blondes on vacation, etc. I swear you could probably set your watch to the call to the DA's office seeking a deal

[whitywendy]

If I were LE I would send her anonymously pics of a hot blonde coming out of his house, CGI his pic and the blondes on vacation, etc. I swear you could probably set your watch to the call to the DA's office seeking a deal

I believe that there is nothing for Darlie to seek a deal with. I believe that Darrin was only involved in the cover-up of the crime. Darlie knows that Darin is dating other women. She can't squeal on herself....

[Blink34]

I believe that there is nothing for Darlie to seek a deal with. I believe that Darrin was only involved in the cover-up of the crime. Darlie knows that Darin is dating other women. She can't squeal on herself....

whity- I respect your opinion, and it has been awhile since I re-reviewed this case, however, I don't know anyone that would agree to a cover up in the minutes following his sons' slaughter. Imo, once the appellate process for the first son is exhausted, there will be a grand jury indictment for both of them on the second son and she will cut a deal to testify, just my gut.

[Jeana (DP)]

whity- I respect your opinion, and it has been awhile since I re-reviewed this case, however, I don't know anyone that would agree to a cover up in the minutes following his sons' slaughter. Imo, once the appellate process for the first son is exhausted, there will be a grand jury indictment for both of them on the second son and she will cut a deal to testify, just my gut.

It will never happen. Things just don't work that way, especially here in Texas. If they had anything they could charge Darin with, he'd be in prison right now. There simply isn't enough evidence to charge him with anything. Since the State does reserve the right to charge Darlie at any time with the murder of the second son, there is always the chance that she could be charged with that, but don't look for it to happen unless things go her way on her appeal, which no one expects. If her appeals are denied, the State will not bring charges in the death of the second son.

[whitywendy]

whity- I respect your opinion, and it has been awhile since I re-reviewed this case, however, I don't know anyone that would agree to a cover up in the minutes following his sons' slaughter. Imo, once the appellate process for the first son is exhausted, there will be a grand jury indictment for both of them on the second son and she will cut a deal to testify, just my gut.

I know what you are saying... however the Routier's are not of the norm. After reading and reading and reading some more, I truely believe that Darin went into cover up mode shortly after LE arrived. I know that it is hard for you and I to fathom but if you go back and read his "accounts", you can "see" the beginnings of a cover-up, of course IMO. :)

[Blink34]

I know what you are saying... however the Routier's are not of the norm. After reading and reading and reading some more, I truely believe that Darin went into cover up mode shortly after LE arrived. I know that it is hard for you and I to fathom but if you go back and read his "accounts", you can "see" the beginnings of a cover-up, of course IMO. :)

well said, I think they are both wacky (clinical term). I will review again at some point, and maybe a fresh look will change my thinking, but either way, I hate that he is free.

[whitywendy]

well said, I think they are both wacky (clinical term). I will review again at some point, and maybe a fresh look will change my thinking, but either way, I hate that he is free.

Yea I agree but I think about the "guilt" he has to deal with every time he goes to visit their graves and talking to their brother about it. I would not want to deal with that kind of torment for the past 11.5 years. But then again, Darlie is able to sleep at night.

Sometimes I wish I could "turn stuff off" like some people seem to be capable of.

[Blink34]

I know what you are saying... however the Routier's are not of the norm. After reading and reading and reading some more, I truely believe that Darin went into cover up mode shortly after LE arrived. I know that it is hard for you and I to fathom but if you go back and read his "accounts", you can "see" the beginnings of a cover-up, of course IMO. :)

right? would be nice. But your assuming he has guilt which I do not believe. I think if you can cover up the slaughter of your babies for any reason you are incapable of guilt.

[whitywendy]

right? would be nice. But your assuming he has guilt which I do not believe. I think if you can cover up the slaughter of your babies for any reason you are incapable of guilt.

Yes, I have to agree. Just wishful thinking on my part. I just don't know though about Darin. If you watch the infamous silly string tape and pay attention to Darin, you see the pain (or whatever he is feeling) on his face. He def. looks "upset" esp. if you compare his reaction to his wife's.

If they were able to prove that Darin did in-fact help with the "cover-up", he should also be sitting in jail. How long??? I could not answer that question. Someone people believe he did what he did because of his LOVE for Darlie. ME, I could not defend anyone who would harm my babies. I don't care how many years we were together. But as we all have read in other places, apparently allot of "partners" protect each other like that. The Jason Midgette case comes to mind.

[Blink34]

Yes, I have to agree. Just wishful thinking on my part. I just don't know though about Darin. If you watch the infamous silly string tape and pay attention to Darin, you see the pain (or whatever he is feeling) on his face. He def. looks "upset" esp. if you compare his reaction to his wife's.

If they were able to prove that Darin did in-fact help with the "cover-up", he should also be sitting in jail. How long??? I could not answer that question. Someone people believe he did what he did because of his LOVE for Darlie. ME, I could not defend anyone who would harm my babies. I don't care how many years we were together. But as we all have read in other places, apparently allot of "partners" protect each other like that. The Jason Midgette case comes to mind.
Not familiar with JM, and respectfully, googled with zippo response?

[becklynn]

No, not a new trial, just the death penalty.

[Blink34]

No, not a new trial, just the death penalty.


My anger makes me agree with you, but for someone like her, I'm not sure it's not worse for her already.

[whitywendy]

Not familiar with JM, and respectfully, googled with zippo response?

I spelled the name wrong...sorry.... Google Jason Midyette. Very Very sad...

Long story short, one of those parents killed their son and they both are protecting one another. Which is what I believed happened with Darlie and Darin. Darin realized that there was no way "someone" came in and "intentionally" killed those two little boys. I believe that was why he started or tried to start the "rape" theory.

[whitywendy]

No, not a new trial, just the death penalty.

11.5 years and counting. There are many of us who are "waiting" for the BIG DAY!

[Anais]

No I don't think Darlie should get a new trial. Darlie chose to take the stand AGAINST her lawyer's advice. Next up- Darlie was fully 100% aware that her attorney also had represented and worked her husband. IMO this excludes a negligent or conflicted defense. Lastly on the bruising-all of those pictures were available and presented during the trial.

Sure I'd like to know how they got there but the truly don't raise reasonable doubt for me. ( I have actually considered the Darlie may have gotten them climbing herself over the fence to run and plant the sock with the small amount of blood)

On the silly string video, I really dont get what the big deal is and don't find it disturbing in the least. People all grieve differently. My best friend had us all release balloons on her daughter's b-day at her grave and have cupcakes and bubble blowing! Besides they had a memorial beforehand.

My reason for not buying any intruder theory is simple:
Criminals don't come to homes in order to commit crimes and savage murderous attacks unarmed and taking the victims own kitchen knives to commit the crimes. Darlie wasn't raped, they weren't burglarized. They live in an enormous home yet she chooses at 1:30 a.m. or so not to put her children in their beds and stay asleep on the floor/sofa area with them??!! I simply don't buy it summer break or not! ( I have raised 3 boys of my own) This is way too convenient for me.

I am a firm believer that evidence speaks for itself. Especially when it's blood and lot's of it. Even if we take the luminol issue with the sink and the proposed clean-up off the table, and only are looking at that counter/sink area you cannot miss the fact that someone stood there bleeding. It looks as if her throat was slit right there. Not to mention the fact that the struggle appears to have taken place after the attacks.

I'll also be the first up to admit that there are amoral cops and prsecutors out there. But in this case IMO they've done a fine job. I also don't believe that Darren had anything to do with the attacks.

IMO Darlie was an overwrought, severely unstable young mother suffering from post-partum depression who was looking for a way out.I think that she was also spoiled rotten! I really in believe my heart it was planned in advance and when it came to herself she just couldn't follow through. IMO it wasn't for money or anything of the sort.

[whitywendy]

No I don't think Darlie should get a new trial. Darlie chose to take the stand AGAINST her lawyer's advice. Next up- Darlie was fully 100% aware that her attorney also had represented and worked her husband. IMO this excludes a negligent or conflicted defense. Lastly on the bruising-all of those pictures were available and presented during the trial.

Sure I'd like to know how they got there but the truly don't raise reasonable doubt for me. ( I have actually considered the Darlie may have gotten them climbing herself over the fence to run and plant the sock with the small amount of blood)

On the silly string video, I really dont get what the big deal is and don't find it disturbing in the least. People all grieve differently. My best friend had us all release balloons on her daughter's b-day at her grave and have cupcakes and bubble blowing! Besides they had a memorial beforehand.

My reason for not buying any intruder theory is simple:
Criminals don't come to homes in order to commit crimes and savage murderous attacks unarmed and taking the victims own kitchen knives to commit the crimes. Darlie wasn't raped, they weren't burglarized. They live in an enormous home yet she chooses at 1:30 a.m. or so not to put her children in their beds and stay asleep on the floor/sofa area with them??!! I simply don't buy it summer break or not! ( I have raised 3 boys of my own) This is way too convenient for me.

I am a firm believer that evidence speaks for itself. Especially when it's blood and lot's of it. Even if we take the luminol issue with the sink and the proposed clean-up off the table, and only are looking at that counter/sink area you cannot miss the fact that someone stood there bleeding. It looks as if her throat was slit right there. Not to mention the fact that the struggle appears to have taken place after the attacks.

I'll also be the first up to admit that there are amoral cops and prsecutors out there. But in this case IMO they've done a fine job. I also don't believe that Darren had anything to do with the attacks.

IMO Darlie was an overwrought, severely unstable young mother suffering from post-partum depression who was looking for a way out.I think that she was also spoiled rotten! I really in believe my heart it was planned in advance and when it came to herself she just couldn't follow through. IMO it wasn't for money or anything of the sort.


:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: very well said and I completely agree.

[Anais]

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: very well said and I completely agree.

Well thank you very much. I just cannot help myself. Every dang time I see an interview with Darlie, Darrin, her mother or other supporter my stomach turns and I feel like vomiting.

Like I said in my post above I am a mother of three boys who are now 18, 22 & 23. I can remember those exact years of 5 & 6. Mine were thirteen months apart to the day. I simply cannot imagine what must of been going through their poor little hearts and souls while their mother murdered them. It absolutely breaks my heart. :mad: I honestly believe in my heart that she thought she'd get away with it and have everyone in America crying for Her.

My uncle is also an extremely seasoned (veteran) Chicago homicide detective and has worked many a crime scene before. He's said that the word is many of those personnel will never recover from what they saw when they were @ Routier's that night.

BTW I did forget to add that we're also being asked to believe that more than 21 people lied or stretched the truth when begging for her innocence!

[michelle]

Well thank you very much. I just cannot help myself. Every dang time I see an interview with Darlie, Darrin, her mother or other supporter my stomach turns and I feel like vomiting.

Like I said in my post above I am a mother of three boys who are now 18, 22 & 23. I can remember those exact years of 5 & 6. Mine were thirteen months apart to the day. I simply cannot imagine what must of been going through their poor little hearts and souls while their mother murdered them. It absolutely breaks my heart. :mad: I honestly believe in my heart that she thought she'd get away with it and have everyone in America crying for Her.

My uncle is also an extremely seasoned (veteran) Chicago homicide detective and has worked many a crime scene before. He's said that the word is many of those personnel will never recover from what they saw when they were @ Routier's that night.

BTW I did forget to add that we're also being asked to believe that more than 21 people lied or stretched the truth when begging for her innocence!Thats a given, I seen the crime scene pics and I cant get the picture out of my mind. My son is going to be 7 next month and I cant imagine what the boys went through. Its horrific.

[weasel]

<<I really in believe my heart it was planned in advance and when it came to herself she just couldn't follow through. IMO it wasn't for money or anything of the sort>>

That's exactly what I think too. I posted elsewhere that I think she pulled a "Susan Smith", meaning exactly what you just said. She chickened out when it came to herself. Look at the wounds suffered by both boys. She wanted to make sure they wouldn't survive.

[weasel]

<<I don't know anyone that would agree to a cover up in the minutes following his sons' slaughter.>>

I don't either; which is why I believe that deep down Darren knows she did it, but he'll never admit that. I think that's why he failed the lie detector because he knows deep down she did it.

[Blink34]

thanks for the snip from my post, obviously I dont "own" that theory, but there is no way he was not involved from the beginning. Not necessarily saying it didnt go wrong in the meantime, but he KNEW

[weasel]

I think you're right ... I think he knew too. He may not have said so and he probably never will. But I think he knew how Darlie was and just what she was capable of. Darlie had a history of dramatics when things didn't go her way. Look how she acted at Darrin's graduation party when he wouldn't leave with her.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

Hi and I'm back. I have been reading the old posts and saw that Goody is no longer with us. I hate to hear that but I know she is in a better place. The lady was a class act.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

No, I don't know what the delay is.

Darlie was prosecuted for Damon's murder. The state had no reason to present any evidence about Devon. I remember seeing pictures of him. From what I could see....and I've never seen the book, MTJD, but the pics I did see....it appeared that Devon was standing up when he was stabbed. The sock in the alley has always baffled me. I can't dismiss it. Darin's jeans are another huge unanswered question. There are too many unanswered questions in this case. The state didn't need any more. The defense does. For some reason, Mulder just didn't care.

Mulder probably was disgusted with Darlie and Darin as they didn't allow him to do what he knew should be done, He was hamstrung by them from the beginning.Knowing your client is ignoring and refusing to follow the legal advice he gives does not inspire a lawyer to give your defense the passion and knowledge that as a lawyer he could bring to the case.

I have never heard that Devon was standing up when he was attacked.

I'm sure Mulder did not want Darlie to testify, even armchair lawyers know that the client should not testify in their own case.

Who most likely encouraged Darlie to testify and ignore legal advice?

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

I don't think a dozen trials will ever convince those who refuse to see the evidence, do you? I would agree that she should get a new trial if she would agree that if she was convicted again, she would give up her appeals and get executed immediately, like that day, but I seriously doubt that she or the State would agree to those terms!!! LOL

I would go for that idea.
Would I remain silent?????
No I'd have to scream let me do it.

[Blink34]

This is so unprofessional of me but I just have to say I seriously loathe that sociopathic homicidal freakshow.

[whitywendy]

I would go for that idea.
Would I remain silent?????
No I'd have to scream let me do it.

Hmmmm. interesting statement. Are you starting to see the light.:)

[whitywendy]

This is so unprofessional of me but I just have to say I seriously loathe that sociopathic homicidal freakshow.

I know what you mean... When I look at my 7 year old and my 2 year old I try but can't imagine what was going through that woman's head that night to make her do what she did. :eek:

I wonder if she has blocked it out and this is why she is able to "live guilt free" on death row for all of these years. I was watching something the other day about Death Row and it is funny how just about everyone on DR is innocent, according to them.....so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Ms. Darlie still to this day denies denies denies.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

Hmmmm. interesting statement. Are you starting to see the light.:)


Look y'all got me from no way in hades did Darlie do this to sitting on the fence. Can anyone take me the rest of the way home.

What has swayed me....
Darin's affdavit -he wasn't honest in the past why totally trust him now.
Darlie and Darin admitting they fought, this means they did conspire together and kept a secret under HEAVY POLICE QUESTIONING.......

When I look at those 2 things I see clues not just the face value.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

I know what you mean... When I look at my 7 year old and my 2 year old I try but can't imagine what was going through that woman's head that night to make her do what she did. :eek:

I wonder if she has blocked it out and this is why she is able to "live guilt free" on death row for all of these years. I was watching something the other day about Death Row and it is funny how just about everyone on DR is innocent, according to them.....so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Ms. Darlie still to this day denies denies denies.



The prison system in general is FULL OF INNOCENT people according to them.

The prison my son works at has a prisoner who claims he his not mentally ill ( he makes these claims when taking his meds).
He is covered in head to toe bruises and scars from his self mutilation.
Sorry DP no pics are available to post of these bruises. I'm sure they have to document them but they would not be available for the General Public to see.

Carla Faye Tucker who was executed did admit guilt and she did so a long time before they executed her, she IMO really did find God because she did what is commanded in the Bible- confess with thy mouth thy sins and ask for forgiveness. The injured party doesn't have to forgive you in order for your redemption to be justified. It isn't they who hand out forgiveness.

No matter what happens if Darlie did do it and she doesn't make an open honest confession to doing it she will be going somewhere in a downward direction and I don't mean Mexico.

A confession to God IMO isn't just to your priest or spiritual advisor who is bound by an oath to keep it between you and them. Confession and the path to redemption includes CONFESSING TO all the people you hurt with either your crime or misbehavior. You can't say I did this to your priest then turn around and deny it in public.

This is also in the 12 step program we have all heard of it is known as AA.
You don't need to be an alcoholic or addict to benefit from the knowledge gleaned from this organization. It works!!! I've witnessed it too many times AA can change lives, even for people never touched by addiction or alcoholism.
You may have wondered why I so quickly apologized for my post about conjecture.
Right or wrong I put you on the defense and my post made you feel attacked. That is wrong in a debate.
You can't put a wall between the light and another person and accuse them of being blind.
It is those people who have hurt, me cursed me, and challenged me in my life ( not the forum y'all are nicer than that) that actually made me stronger in my faith in God. If I hadn't gone thru it God couldn't have pulled me thru it.
I don't mean to sound like a holy rolling Jesus freak here but my faith in God and Jesus is the only thing that has ever helped me meet the challenges my life has been given.

[Anais]

I am sorry but Darin was one horrified, shocked man trying to save his children period. Darlie is exactly where she belongs and I for one second don't think he had anything to do with it. (actually she's not quite even there yet but I sense her days a coming.)

[Blink34]

I know what you mean... When I look at my 7 year old and my 2 year old I try but can't imagine what was going through that woman's head that night to make her do what she did. :eek:

I wonder if she has blocked it out and this is why she is able to "live guilt free" on death row for all of these years. I was watching something the other day about Death Row and it is funny how just about everyone on DR is innocent, according to them.....so I guess I shouldn't be surprised that Ms. Darlie still to this day denies denies denies.

IMO, she is a narcissitic sociopath. period. Think of your computer, available to access data (memory) at will, but able to look at it unemotionally and just present it to you when you request to look it up.
When two people like that get together, there is inevitable tragedy.

[whitywendy]

IMO, she is a narcissitic sociopath. period. Think of your computer, available to access data (memory) at will, but able to look at it unemotionally and just present it to you when you request to look it up.
When two people like that get together, there is inevitable tragedy.

Well said!!!:clap::clap:

[Anais]

IMO, she is a narcissitic sociopath. period. Think of your computer, available to access data (memory) at will, but able to look at it unemotionally and just present it to you when you request to look it up.
When two people like that get together, there is inevitable tragedy.

Excellent way to explain this situation!

[whitywendy]

The prison system in general is FULL OF INNOCENT people according to them.

Carla Faye Tucker who was executed did admit guilt and she did so a long time before they executed her, she IMO really did find God because she did what is commanded in the Bible- confess with thy mouth thy sins and ask for forgiveness. The injured party doesn't have to forgive you in order for your redemption to be justified. It isn't they who hand out forgiveness.

I agree that Carla Faye found God.

No matter what happens if Darlie did do it and she doesn't make an open honest confession to doing it she will be going somewhere in a downward direction and I don't mean Mexico.

YEP THAT IS WERE SHE WILL BE HEADING IMO

You may have wondered why I so quickly apologized for my post about conjecture.
Right or wrong I put you on the defense and my post made you feel attacked. That is wrong in a debate.

I admit I was a little testy. I guess it has to do with the way most PRO-Darlie's attack what is said here as if we are making most of it up.

You can't put a wall between the light and another person and accuse them of being blind.
It is those people who have hurt, me cursed me, and challenged me in my life ( not the forum y'all are nicer than that) that actually made me stronger in my faith in God. If I hadn't gone thru it God couldn't have pulled me thru it.
I don't mean to sound like a holy rolling Jesus freak here but my faith in God and Jesus is the only thing that has ever helped me meet the challenges my life has been given.

My faith in God and Jesus has brought me through many difficult times in my life. I am proud to say it as you are too. OOPS!! I was trying to do that multi-quote but obviously did it wrong.

[Blink34]

Excellent way to explain this situation!

Thanks, I just wish there were better studies or "root causes" of it, perhaps that could prevent the effects of it from killing someone else's babies next time-

[Anais]

Thanks, I just wish there were better studies or "root causes" of it, perhaps that could prevent the effects of it from killing someone else's babies next time-

Yes that would be great wouldn't it? It makes me physically ill every time that I hear of the senseless murders of innocent children, especially at the hands of their very own parents. :confused:

[whitywendy]

Yes that would be great wouldn't it? It makes me physically ill every time that I hear of the senseless murders of innocent children, especially at the hands of their very own parents. :confused:


ME TO:furious::furious::furious::furious::furious:

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

My faith in God and Jesus has brought me through many difficult times in my life. I am proud to say it as you are too. OOPS!! I was trying to do that multi-quote but obviously did it wrong.


Hey I'm lucky I can microwave something.
Give me an open campfire, some wild game, a cast iron skillet and we will be eating in style.
See ya at the campground or lake we will be the blue tent with good smelling food and a complete kitchen set up. Smiles all around and happy campers. Bring your own plate and silverware and everyone is welcome.

I'm nearly 50 and it has taken me years to grow up and UNDERSTAND.
It was actually my son explaining his job in the Army -Civilian Affairs and jointly Psychological Operations that made me see how difficult it is for people of different cultures and backgrounds to understand and change.
The Taliban is so bad with what they do to children, old people and others that it makes Darlie look like an angel. In fact they make Jeffery Dalhmer look normal.

He told me stories that broke my heart I can't imagine how these people have lived like they do.
I thank God everyday he brought my baby home and not only protected him over there he Blessed him too.

Both sides have been mean to each other and I try and make sure I don't insult someone regardless of opinion even if they insult me- including that off hand remark about Saran Wrap whoever made.
I don't care about it cause I know they will remember it.They wrote about it and that reinforces memory.
If God forbid they should ever have to use that info and save someones life they will, BTW, any piece of plastic like a bread bag or newspaper wrapper will do.
I haven't posted my theory about Darlie did it cause I wanted to discuss the possibility of Darin as a suspect first.

It is the 2 new pieces of evidence that have come forth that finally made me think OK this IS an inside job and the prosecution got it all wrong as to motives.
I went with Darin first cause if I'm right about the motive part it makes a whole lot more sense to me than the simple she is so this and that and that is why she did it. No matter who did it I think I finally know why.

[whitywendy]

I haven't posted my theory about Darlie did it cause I wanted to discuss the possibility of Darin as a suspect first.

It is the 2 new pieces of evidence that have come forth that finally made me think OK this IS an inside job and the prosecution got it all wrong as to motives.
I went with Darin first cause if I'm right about the motive part it makes a whole lot more sense to me than the simple she is so this and that and that is why she did it. No matter who did it I think I finally know why.

Please tell me your why. Figuring out the reason why is one of the reasons, I am here.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

Why I explored Darin first is because Darlie is already in jail. My why is WHY.
Why would Darin or Darlie have motive. I have never believed the WHY Toby put out I knew her too well, her mom knew her too well , her sisters and other friends didn't buy it either. I realized from watching the interaction of posters how one side would never concede a piece of ground to the other. Each side accusing, blaming, defending.
The prosecution was wrong no the defense was wrong. Each side accusing the other of fabrications until frustration led to anger . Anger to denial everyone ignoring the other until I imagine more than once someone had to go to the "Parking Lot".
I am an Optician and it has been my job to assist people in seeing. I also wear glasses so realizing that putting some of the principles of guess who jogged my mind. It was YOU not what you said but your tag line by George Bishop Berkley. His Essay Towards a Theory of New Vision
is considered one of the pioneer theories in the science of OPTICS. It is still used and accepted today.

Like a light from above I realized Darlie Kee had discovered new and compelling evidence, the police had compelling evidence, both sides did not contradict each other anymore when I saw the final 2 clues that tied the everything together for me. I think both sides have been 1 eye blind.
Let me explain some optics first.

There is a condition referred to as 1 eye blind in laymans terms. One eye has much better vision than the other, the brain knows this and tends to IGNORE totally any image coming from the other side. No you don't lose TOTALLY the peripheral vision on the bad side just a little bit of it, the brain simply fills in the blanks using assumptive knowledge gained from the use of the good eye.
When the eye processes the information and sends the signals to the brain it passes upside down then is made correct and whole( right side up) in the perception part of vision.
A common cause of this 1 eye blindness is known as astigmatism in one eye only. The image the eye gets does not hit on the correct part of the optic nerve, Light, the transmitter of images falls too far to the left, right, high, or low, depending on how bad the astigmatism is and its exact location on the front part of the eye. The eye is no longer perfectly round it tends to flatten out becoming football shaped that is astigmatism. E- GADS A NEW THEORY OCCURRED in my head.

I still had possibilities but me -no longer a closed mind to one side only.
We were all held hostage by 2 important missing pieces of the puzzle. They look unimportant at first but if you converge the two pieces and let your brain process the information then you will see why I think these two pieces are very important. Both theories rely on the 2 missing pieces and either 1 image is upside down or right side up. Our perceptions are what will tell us which is more likely correct.

I know it is hard to understand (the optics part) how I came to this conclusion so I'll make it simple.... marry Toby's story to Darlie Kee's and we fill in the blank area using both eyes or both stories, the very small area we couldn't see because of being 1 eye blind (the peripheral area the eye couldn't see, - the fight and the scam). One side withheld information just like having astigmatism in one eye only causes 1 eye blindness.

Read both theories carefully 1 could be correct the other is upside down.

Both rely on the human nature of dealing with loss, pain and the relationship each had with the other.

I went for Darin first also because his denial of her guilt and his refusal to get a divorce despite Darlie's request even 12 years after the murders made him a better suspect, in LIGHT of the new info. Forgive this last pun.

Use what you know each side is better at, The prosecution had better science, Darlie Kee knew her daughters behavior better and the motive put forth has kept her from seeing and others as well. The science didn't see some of the other side because it couldn't fill in a small part of the blank because information was falling just in that small area it couldn't fill in, it had to use assumptive perception.

Since I'm a hunter and an optician, a shot close enough to fatally wound is not dead on and I want a dead on theory that doesn't leave the animal running bleeding. One shot dead on the ground right there no having to track a wounded beast, or the patient anything less than 20/20 with a full field of peripheral. I expect this kind of perfection in my hobbies and my job.
The only shot or pair of glasses I could make was these theories.

My only problem is I see two bucks in the field, or I have double vision. As I requested before can someone look objectively at both theories and tell me using the crime scene evidence, the testimony from both sides who looks like the better suspect. If Darlie is it then nothing needs to be done and I'll shut up.:behindbar

If Darin looks like the better suspect than I'll shut up too cause I suspect he lurks here and he lives in the same town as I do.
:eek: I'm :chicken:.

[Blink34]

With all due GI- can you in short form, give your opinion or theory on this case? I am not really understanding your post and how it relates, thanks..

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

It is on 2 different threads. I didn't try and tie the forensics into much just the motives behind it. I posted one thread called darlie did it theory and the other is on a different thread .

I'll try and be short.
The couple fights Darin either does it himself or hires it out. I'm assuming the police searched every square inch of the house but i could be wrong as the house had 2 attics and lots of hiding spots for him to put some damning evidence away for later disposal. He had to kill his sons as they overheard things Darlie might have said about his jag scam, or they witnessed some spousal abuse she was going to take kids to cops or cps in morning.She had asked for separation or divorce that night. He feared her ruining his business, a long messy divorce, child support, losing everything he worked for. He tried for Darlie but either didn't complete or set her up. If non complete set up may have been an afterthought to cover own hiney. Encourage bizarre behavior, get her to agree to keep quiet about fight.
They both now admit to fight, to whose advantage did not revealing it make look less guilty. If mundane and non important to either ones motives why not reveal it.

Darlie -I'll get you you sob I'll take from you what you love most make you pay. Darlie was in cat bird seat in a divorce she would get house, boys and 1/2 of everything. What more could she get or do get it all and make him look like he did it or feel so bad about it that he couldn't live with it. Haunt him with guilt forever.

I use more detail and psychology in long posts that is short versions

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

I read your hot blonde comment and you are not off base except she isn't that hot and Darlie gave her blessings and requested a divorce again as it would be better for Drake less confusing and Darin wouldn't have to hide it anymore. The girlfriend info comes from a friend who hired Darin as wedding photographer. I called Mama Darlie and they already knew she told me about blessing and second divorce request and second refusal from Darin.

[Blink34]

I have never seen her- and franky don't care. I believe both of them cooked up a scheme to slaughter their babies, the end. It is of no consequence to me, requires zero more "noodling: she and he are serious nut jobs that deserve to rot for the crimes they have committd- I believe in karma in the enth degree for them..

That being said, until her appeals are exhausted, consider her actions "for public consumption"

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

MY Darin did it theory is on the do these bruises look familar thread. POSTS 28, 30, and another down the line.
I take it you think they conspired to kill together, doesn't worry you that a killer is walking free maybe not, cause 1 of the killers doesn't live in your town or know you .
Like I said before.
:eek: I'm :chicken:.

Doesn't seem a little strange to you that Darin doesn't want a divorce even considering they both have exhibited some bizarre behavior.

Never mind that last question my hubby just explained it. No man would divorce a woman who gives her blessing on his adultry, why it would only make him love her more, he gets to have his cake and eat it too.:rolleyes:

Even if Darlie is innocent and I'm right about Darin. I think she at least deserves all the time she has served and maybe some more for lying and withholding evidence. Protecting the man who maybe killed your kids and then tried to kill you :mad:.

[LionRun]

I want her to get a new trial because then all those claiming Darlie is innocent will realize that Darlie truly is the killer of her children.

Wow, philamena. I never thought of that. What an interesting idea, and I think she murdered her children, too.

I voted, "no" because I think that she murdered her children in cold blood. I think she has a very similar personality and possible set of disorders as Susan Smith.

Lion

[whitywendy]

MY Darin did it theory is on the do these bruises look familar thread. POSTS 28, 30, and another down the line.
I take it you think they conspired to kill together, doesn't worry you that a killer is walking free maybe not, cause 1 of the killers doesn't live in your town or know you .
Like I said before.
:eek: I'm :chicken:.

Doesn't seem a little strange to you that Darin doesn't want a divorce even considering they both have exhibited some bizarre behavior.

Never mind that last question my hubby just explained it. No man would divorce a woman who gives her blessing on his adultry, why it would only make him love her more, he gets to have his cake and eat it too.:rolleyes:

Even if Darlie is innocent and I'm right about Darin. I think she at least deserves all the time she has served and maybe some more for lying and withholding evidence. Protecting the man who maybe killed your kids and then tried to kill you :mad:.

I think that there is something more to him not wanting to divorce Darlie. So she has actually requested this twice and he has refused. hmmmm
Doesn't make much sense to me.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

I think that there is something more to him not wanting to divorce Darlie. So she has actually requested this twice and he has refused. hmmmm
Doesn't make much sense to me.

That is part of why he seemed a good suspect to me too.
Think about his girlfriend too what kind of woman would put up with that.

[whitywendy]

That is part of why he seemed a good suspect to me too.
Think about his girlfriend too what kind of woman would put up with that.


Ya know Jane I just don't see Darin doing the crime. I can still see his face from the Silly String Video and he does not look the least bit guilty unlike his wife. The Silly String Video DID NOT SEAL MY DECISION. I do remember when it first happened when I was living in Texas. I remember the first news cast. It was the talk of the my little town. I remember looking at my bf at the time and telling him, yep her husband had something do with it because the only info at the time was the fact that he and the baby upstairs was unharmed. Then a week or so later they showed the Silly String tape and I went hmmmm now that doesn't look like a person who just lost 2 of the most precious gifts anyone can get - her babies. This was when my attention focused on her. However, I never concluded she did it because I moved before the trial started. It wasn't until I read that article back in 2006 in regards to her still declaring her innocence that I became interested in the actual facts and wanted to find out for myself. I actually started out thinking this woman was wrongly charged until I FOUND THE TRANSCRIPTS and starting reading. It took me almost a year to finish reading everything. What swayed me... The first PO's testimony, the nurses testimony and the evidence discovered and laid out in the transcripts. I remember getting chills when I discovered the tiny bloody handprint, his movement (crawling to the door) and the SHOCKER the bloody knife imprint in the carpet. Of course of bunch of other things but mostly these stand out in my mind.

I never thought the reason she did it was because of money. I guess this is why I am searching for her WHY which I know I will never be privy to but I just can't seem to walk away and forget about those precious little boys that died that night at the hands of SOMEONE THEY KNEW. Haven't you ever wondered why Damon was staring at his mother but not trying to move toward her as he was gasping for air.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

A lot of people wondered if she snapped. When I think of snapping, I associate it with a rubberband or bungie cord. Returning to it's original shape after the stretch. She broke.

[Anais]

A lot of people wondered if she snapped. When I think of snapping, I associate it with a rubberband or bungie cord. Returning to it's original shape after the stretch. She broke.

Sadly I think that it went beyond "snap" for Darlie. It's my feeling that she actually believes many or most of her own lies and deceits. JMHO

[crumbsnatcher]

They live in an enormous home yet she chooses at 1:30 a.m. or so not to put her children in their beds and stay asleep on the floor/sofa area with them??!! I simply don't buy it summer break or not! ( I have raised 3 boys of my own) This is way too convenient for me.


No offense, but just because your family has different ways, does not make this portion of the story outrageous or unbelievable to everyone. I have daughters ages 17 and 5. I can certainly imagine myself and my children falling asleep watching a movie in the summertime, and just pulling throws off the sofa to cover us all and not bothering to take them to their beds. And I am not uneducated or lower class, I am a pediatric RN living in a 'big house' like Darlie's. Different families have different styles.

That said, I think from following the trial that Darlie Routier is guilty as all heck and that justice has been served. Or will be, when she has her appointment with the needle. I would cheerfully start the line myself.

[whitywendy]

No offense, but just because your family has different ways, does not make this portion of the story outrageous or unbelievable to everyone. I have daughters ages 17 and 5. I can certainly imagine myself and my children falling asleep watching a movie in the summertime, and just pulling throws off the sofa to cover us all and not bothering to take them to their beds. And I am not uneducated or lower class, I am a pediatric RN living in a 'big house' like Darlie's. Different families have different styles.

That said, I think from following the trial that Darlie Routier is guilty as all heck and that justice has been served. Or will be, when she has her appointment with the needle. I would cheerfully start the line myself.

I agree about sleeping in the LR. My daughter just can't seem to fall asleep anywhere but the couch. She likes to sleep in the LR and because her room is on the other side of the house, I actually prefer it because she is closer to me.

Last night in the middle of the night in my DEEP SLEEP I heard my son scream "bloodymurder" (my mom use to call it that when we screamed too loud) in the middle of the night. It jolted me awake to where I jumped up so quickly that I smashed my knee into the glass coffee table. I woke up this morning with a ugly bruise. Anyhow, I just don't see how Ms. Darlie was able to lay there sleeping with her kids and NOT HEAR THEM BEING STABBED!!!!! OFJMO

[crumbsnatcher]

Anyhow, I just don't see how Ms. Darlie was able to lay there sleeping with her kids and NOT HEAR THEM BEING STABBED!!!!! OFJMO

I SO agree! I (and I honestly think, most mothers) would have to be under general anesthesia to sleep through any part of that. This woman's lies have had me boiling for years. I have seen too many abused and neglected children to have one drop of pity for Darlie Routier. I know the politically correct line is that no one really likes the DP and we should all pity DR when her turn comes, but in this case, I feel execution is totally warranted. Then those boys will finally have justice, imo. I only wish she could be made to feel the heart-wrenching terror she put her son through, when he realized what was going on and tried to get away from her.

I do pity her family, if they honestly believe in her innocence.

A new trial would be a waste of the taxpayers money and time, imo.

[sharkeyes]

I read your hot blonde comment and you are not off base except she isn't that hot and Darlie gave her blessings and requested a divorce again as it would be better for Drake less confusing and Darin wouldn't have to hide it anymore. The girlfriend info comes from a friend who hired Darin as wedding photographer. I called Mama Darlie and they already knew she told me about blessing and second divorce request and second refusal from Darin.

According to the info on the link below, when one spouse is incarcerated, the other does not have to give consent for divorce - although the way I understood it, that applies when it's the spouse on the outside wanting to divorce the incarcerated spouse - it can be done "inproper" (without an attorney). Now, when it's the incarcerated spouse wanting the divorce, things may be totally different - even so, if Darlie wants to file for divorce she has every right to do so - but will certainly need assistance from her family to accomplish the task - in other words: Darin may not want a divorce, but that doesn't mean Darlie cannot attempt to divorce him.
http://www.womansdivorce.com/divorce-grounds.html

[JMO8778]

I think that there is something more to him not wanting to divorce Darlie. So she has actually requested this twice and he has refused. hmmmm
Doesn't make much sense to me. I guess it's that he won't be required to testify,should there be a new trial,if they're still married?
I've always thought he has something to hide,esp. after seeing him on Unsolved Mysteries.He downright lied about their money situation,saying he'd made more and more every yr,so what was the problem? Problem was,he wasn't telling the truth!
If any of you haven't seen that segment,you can rent the old UM shows thru dvd rental sites online.The way Darin is so obviously taking up for Darlie b/c he has something to hide himself (IMO) is interesting,to say the least.That's what I get out of it.
I don't think he killed them himself,I'm guessing he thinks he may have been the trigger that set off Darlie,and or he conspired to lie about it bf calling 911.

[Jeana (DP)]

I guess it's that he won't be required to testify,should there be a new trial,if they're still married?
I've always thought he has something to hide,esp. after seeing him on Unsolved Mysteries.He downright lied about their money situation,saying he'd made more and more every yr,so what was the problem? Problem was,he wasn't telling the truth!
If any of you haven't seen that segment,you can rent the old UM shows thru dvd rental sites online.The way Darin is so obviously taking up for Darlie b/c he has something to hide himself (IMO) is interesting,to say the least.That's what I get out of it.
I don't think he killed them himself,I'm guessing he thinks he may have been the trigger that set off Darlie,and or he conspired to lie about it bf calling 911.

He wasn't required to testify the first time, but he did. His testimony and her own testimony, I believe, is a large reason why she got convicted. Juries are not stupid. The old addage that they're too dumb to get out of jury duty is a falsehood. The fact that Darlie and Darin had the gaul to get up before that jury and say that they had a perfect marriage, had perfect kids, Darlie LOVED to clean the house after three boys and that they had absolutely NO financial problems was laughable. In fact, it was worse than laughable it was disgusting. The prosecution, they HAD to know was going to come out with all sorts of unrefutable evidence that none of that was true!!!! There was document after document after document showing that they were indeed in deep financial doodoo. They had as many problems in their marriage as ANY young couple with three kids and their own business. In fact, any couple of ANY age would find that difficult unless they were seriously well off financially and could afford lots of help. The Routiers had a broken down boat, a broken down car, loads of debt, no hope of the business picking up, Darlie loosing it because of self-doubt and low self-esteem, three very time consuming children and don't forget Darlie's endless reputation of coming to the aid of all of her friends and family in need and she can no longer take care of her own family, let alone help anyone else. She's not sleeping at night, she feels "fat," most likely think that Darin is seeing someone else and they can't even get a $5,000 loan so that they can go on vacation. And, during all of this b.s., they're planning on RENEWING THEIR VOWS???? Are you freaking kidding me?????

(sorry, I'm not going off on you - just thinking this all through in my head again after many moons of trying not to think about it). I'll calm down now.

Anyway, I completely agree with you that Darin didn't have a hand in the murders, but he was there minutes after and is in deep. He's in so deep that he can't pass a lie detector examiner asking him his own name.

No, they'll not get a divorce. United we stand and divided we fall. Until Darlie is given the needle, he'll remain the devoted, loving husband we know and NOT love!! LOL

[NewMom2003]

He wasn't required to testify the first time, but he did. His testimony and her own testimony, I believe, is a large reason why she got convicted. Juries are not stupid. The old addage that they're too dumb to get out of jury duty is a falsehood. The fact that Darlie and Darin had the gaul to get up before that jury and say that they had a perfect marriage, had perfect kids, Darlie LOVED to clean the house after three boys and that they had absolutely NO financial problems was laughable. In fact, it was worse than laughable it was disgusting. The prosecution, they HAD to know was going to come out with all sorts of unrefutable evidence that none of that was true!!!! There was document after document after document showing that they were indeed in deep financial doodoo. They had as many problems in their marriage as ANY young couple with three kids and their own business. In fact, any couple of ANY age would find that difficult unless they were seriously well off financially and could afford lots of help. The Routiers had a broken down boat, a broken down car, loads of debt, no hope of the business picking up, Darlie loosing it because of self-doubt and low self-esteem, three very time consuming children and don't forget Darlie's endless reputation of coming to the aid of all of her friends and family in need and she can no longer take care of her own family, let alone help anyone else. She's not sleeping at night, she feels "fat," most likely think that Darin is seeing someone else and they can't even get a $5,000 loan so that they can go on vacation. And, during all of this b.s., they're planning on RENEWING THEIR VOWS???? Are you freaking kidding me?????

(sorry, I'm not going off on you - just thinking this all through in my head again after many moons of trying not to think about it). I'll calm down now.

Anyway, I completely agree with you that Darin didn't have a hand in the murders, but he was there minutes after and is in deep. He's in so deep that he can't pass a lie detector examiner asking him his own name.

No, they'll not get a divorce. United we stand and divided we fall. Until Darlie is given the needle, he'll remain the devoted, loving husband we know and NOT love!! LOL

Any ideas on when she will be executed? Hasn't she been on DR over 10 years now?

[whitywendy]

If I recall correctly she rec'd a STAY.

[whitywendy]

According to http://www.fordarlieroutier.org website, She was granted a motion for Reconsideration back in Aug 06. She was also granted a motion for Stay at this time. Apparently now there is going to be an investigation into new evidence. According to this website no further action will be taken in the US Courts until this investigation is complete.

[mollymalone]

He wasn't required to testify the first time, but he did. His testimony and her own testimony, I believe, is a large reason why she got convicted. Juries are not stupid. The old addage that they're too dumb to get out of jury duty is a falsehood. The fact that Darlie and Darin had the gaul to get up before that jury and say that they had a perfect marriage, had perfect kids, Darlie LOVED to clean the house after three boys and that they had absolutely NO financial problems was laughable. In fact, it was worse than laughable it was disgusting. The prosecution, they HAD to know was going to come out with all sorts of unrefutable evidence that none of that was true!!!! There was document after document after document showing that they were indeed in deep financial doodoo. They had as many problems in their marriage as ANY young couple with three kids and their own business. In fact, any couple of ANY age would find that difficult unless they were seriously well off financially and could afford lots of help. The Routiers had a broken down boat, a broken down car, loads of debt, no hope of the business picking up, Darlie loosing it because of self-doubt and low self-esteem, three very time consuming children and don't forget Darlie's endless reputation of coming to the aid of all of her friends and family in need and she can no longer take care of her own family, let alone help anyone else. She's not sleeping at night, she feels "fat," most likely think that Darin is seeing someone else and they can't even get a $5,000 loan so that they can go on vacation. And, during all of this b.s., they're planning on RENEWING THEIR VOWS???? Are you freaking kidding me?????

(sorry, I'm not going off on you - just thinking this all through in my head again after many moons of trying not to think about it). I'll calm down now.

Anyway, I completely agree with you that Darin didn't have a hand in the murders, but he was there minutes after and is in deep. He's in so deep that he can't pass a lie detector examiner asking him his own name.

No, they'll not get a divorce. United we stand and divided we fall. Until Darlie is given the needle, he'll remain the devoted, loving husband we know and NOT love!! LOLWhy should he make things easier for her? Who knows, she might have a pen pal she wants to remarry, one with money? :chicken: Seriously though, even though I don't believe he was in on the deed, I think as he was trying to do cpr on the children he realized who did it quite quickly. I also think he's the type who refuses to admit he was wrong in his judgement about her and one who doesn't like being seen as a fool.

I think his reasons for not divorcing her might be more for their remaining son's sake.

[JMO8778]

He wasn't required to testify the first time, but he did. His testimony and her own testimony, I believe, is a large reason why she got convicted. Juries are not stupid. The old addage that they're too dumb to get out of jury duty is a falsehood. The fact that Darlie and Darin had the gaul to get up before that jury and say that they had a perfect marriage, had perfect kids, Darlie LOVED to clean the house after three boys and that they had absolutely NO financial problems was laughable. In fact, it was worse than laughable it was disgusting. The prosecution, they HAD to know was going to come out with all sorts of unrefutable evidence that none of that was true!!!! There was document after document after document showing that they were indeed in deep financial doodoo. They had as many problems in their marriage as ANY young couple with three kids and their own business. In fact, any couple of ANY age would find that difficult unless they were seriously well off financially and could afford lots of help. The Routiers had a broken down boat, a broken down car, loads of debt, no hope of the business picking up, Darlie loosing it because of self-doubt and low self-esteem, three very time consuming children and don't forget Darlie's endless reputation of coming to the aid of all of her friends and family in need and she can no longer take care of her own family, let alone help anyone else. She's not sleeping at night, she feels "fat," most likely think that Darin is seeing someone else and they can't even get a $5,000 loan so that they can go on vacation. And, during all of this b.s., they're planning on RENEWING THEIR VOWS???? Are you freaking kidding me?????

(sorry, I'm not going off on you - just thinking this all through in my head again after many moons of trying not to think about it). I'll calm down now.

Anyway, I completely agree with you that Darin didn't have a hand in the murders, but he was there minutes after and is in deep. He's in so deep that he can't pass a lie detector examiner asking him his own name.

No, they'll not get a divorce. United we stand and divided we fall. Until Darlie is given the needle, he'll remain the devoted, loving husband we know and NOT love!! LOL no problem ! I get frustrated as well from reading about some of these cases,in specific I can't figure out why us taxpayers have to pay to keep ppl like Jeffery MacDonald alive! Morally he should have been gone a longggg time ago,as I'm sure Collette's family would agree.

[Jeana (DP)]

no problem ! I get frustrated as well from reading about some of these cases,in specific I can't figure out why us taxpayers have to pay to keep ppl like Jeffery MacDonald alive! Morally he should have been gone a longggg time ago,as I'm sure Collette's family would agree.

Man, you're not joking about that!!!! That man irritates me like almost no other! Anyone who could do that just isn't worth the space.

[whitywendy]

Okay I finally got the book with all the pictures. WOW. If I haven't been so into this case I really think those pictures would give me nightmares. I have one question right now.... why did Devon have so much blood all over him. FACE, CHEST, ARMS, etc. I can see Darin going from his face to his chest but not his arms, shorts, and leg. I know he didn't move so how did it flow like that.

[cami]

Okay I finally got the book with all the pictures. WOW. If I haven't been so into this case I really think those pictures would give me nightmares. I have one question right now.... why did Devon have so much blood all over him. FACE, CHEST, ARMS, etc. I can see Darin going from his face to his chest but not his arms, shorts, and leg. I know he didn't move so how did it flow like that.

Some people think that Devon did wake and stood when Damon was stabbed hence the blood flow, but Devon didn't have spurting wounds so how would all that blood flow that fast and especially if he was put down right away with the second stab. Could it be from Darin blowing into his mouth? He said blood sprayed from the chest wounds when he did that. I think a lot of the blood is from cpr. The doesn't answer the question though I know of where all that blood came from.

[Mary456]

Darin's jeans are another huge unanswered question.

It shouldn't be an unanswered question for you, because Darin's jeans were made available to the defense back in August of 1996.

They obviously had no evidentiary value, because neither side admitted them into evidence.

[Medea]

It shouldn't be an unanswered question for you, because Darin's jeans were made available to the defense back in August of 1996.

They obviously had no evidentiary value, because neither side admitted them into evidence.

I always love it when the defense whines about evidence that went "untested" by the police and try to claim its exculpatory. Why anyone falls for this is beyond me. The defense can test anything they want, or at worst, they can file a motion to test it, so if the judge denies them testing it becomes an appealable issue.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

I always love it when the defense whines about evidence that went "untested" by the police and try to claim its exculpatory. Why anyone falls for this is beyond me. The defense can test anything they want, or at worst, they can file a motion to test it, so if the judge denies them testing it becomes an appealable issue.



The defense was not taking the approach that Darin could have been a suspect. Testing the jeans might have been the smart thing to do but the defense was forbidden by both Darlie and Darin that any finger pointing was not to be aimed at Darin.
Even if the new DNA tests prove a 3rd party was there unless that 3rd party is identified and a confession gained then Darlie will .more likely than not, still be executed.

Just check out the Jon Benet case, some posters, despite the fact that police have totally exhonorated the Ramsey family publicaly, still believe the family had something to do with it.

Even if a new suspect is named and a conviction of them gained some anti Darlie people will keep their opinions she did it. Even if this new DNA tests falls flat and actually proved Darlie did it some pro Darlie people will still keep their opinion.

I have come to the conclusion that people will never agree on this case no matter what.

No matter what happens if you are waiting for an apology from the "other side" you may have a very long wait, people in general have a hard time admitting when they are wrong.

The best any of us can expect is that we all come together to improve LE tools and tactics, our justice system in general. That way more guilty people are convicted and more innocent people go free. We are all human and we will make mistakes no matter how hard we try. Accepting that fact is how we grow and learn as members of the human race.

[Jeana (DP)]

I agree Jane. Before the verdict, all the defense had to do with try and get some reasonable doubt flowing. Now that has all changed. She's no longer given the benefit of the doubt about anything and must actually PROVE that she's innocent, not just throw in the idea that someone else did it.

[browneyedgirl]

I think they should use the money for a new trial to expedite her death date. I wonder what she will say to her sons when she has to stand and look them in the eye and tell them why she choose to murder them.....

[michelle]

I think they should use the money for a new trial to expedite her death date. I wonder what she will say to her sons when she has to stand and look them in the eye and tell them why she choose to murder them.....
What a day that will be, how chilling.

[browneyedgirl]

What a day that will be, how chilling.

You are absolutly right about that, Michelle. I wouldn't want to be anywhere around....

[cami]

My thought exactly! One presumes that location will be quite a bit hotter.

what is your (not you, just general) idea of Hell? Mine is the worst things you've done in your life come back to haunt you...played over and over and over again so you never have any peace...your terrible misdeeds are in front of your face daily, hourly, minutely ( is that a word, LOL).

That's what I wish for Darlie anyway.

[mollymalone]

what is your (not you, just general) idea of Hell? Mine is the worst things you've done in your life come back to haunt you...played over and over and over again so you never have any peace...your terrible misdeeds are in front of your face daily, hourly, minutely ( is that a word, LOL).

That's what I wish for Darlie anyway.In the case of those who wantonly murder and have had no remorse while alive, having to re-experience those same events over and over as a soul may end up being akin to a prisoner, who behind the bars of their cell relives the events out of pleasure.

I'm against murderers being allowed to have photos of those they've killed as it enables them to enjoy and refresh their mind continually of the event.

As for their souls, only God or whatever entity one believes in, if any, will see to their punishment, remorse or redemption.

[JaneInOz]

I am so glad these DR forums are back!

I absolutely believe Darlie should have a new trial. The more I read the more I know that a miscarriage of justice was done - as in the crime scene , as in the Ability of the Defence Lawyer to adequately defend Darlie and present the facts properly, as in the evidence having a slanted view.

NO in my mind, people made their mind up that Darlie did it. Lets face it it was going to be a LONG haul to try and find the person that did do it, and here we have a woman , hysterical woman, not getting all her facts out STRAIGHT, and a few things seemingly to be a bit off, not in the right place, a blood spot here not how it should be , a vacumn cleaner with her blood on, things just not the way it should be and Voila we have ourselves a little murderer - Lets fry her.

Two little boys carved up, And A jury sees a mother throwing a party at a grave site of them..Yup I can understand, and without having looked into things a bit deeper I certainly would be saying GUILTY. Because I am a mother and WHO does that at a grave - one week after their child is dead ?

Plenty of people do similar things when they lose loved ones. Grief does unbelievable things.

I remember Laughing at my Mothers funeral, ridiculously laughing - it was the total giggles and I was beside myself because I couldn't understand how I could possibly giggle but - then I dissolved into tears not too long after

Grief does inexplicable things.

I do not believe Darlie Routier killed her two baby boys. WHAT FOR ? there is NO REASON on this earth for her to do it. And I do not believe that " they were in her way , her life " was a reason to kill them.

Sadly I think the world is made up of mob mentality and its only the very few brave that are willing to look at the other possibilities and not follow the flock

This is JUST MY OPINION :)

[j2mirish]

I am so glad these DR forums are back!

I absolutely believe Darlie should have a new trial. The more I read the more I know that a miscarriage of justice was done - as in the crime scene , as in the Ability of the Defence Lawyer to adequately defend Darlie and present the facts properly, as in the evidence having a slanted view.

NO in my mind, people made their mind up that Darlie did it. Lets face it it was going to be a LONG haul to try and find the person that did do it, and here we have a woman , hysterical woman, not getting all her facts out STRAIGHT, and a few things seemingly to be a bit off, not in the right place, a blood spot here not how it should be , a vacumn cleaner with her blood on, things just not the way it should be and Voila we have ourselves a little murderer - Lets fry her.

Two little boys carved up, And A jury sees a mother throwing a party at a grave site of them..Yup I can understand, and without having looked into things a bit deeper I certainly would be saying GUILTY. Because I am a mother and WHO does that at a grave - one week after their child is dead ?

Plenty of people do similar things when they lose loved ones. Grief does unbelievable things.

I remember Laughing at my Mothers funeral, ridiculously laughing - it was the total giggles and I was beside myself because I couldn't understand how I could possibly giggle but - then I dissolved into tears not too long after

Grief does inexplicable things.

I do not believe Darlie Routier killed her two baby boys. WHAT FOR ? there is NO REASON on this earth for her to do it. And I do not believe that " they were in her way , her life " was a reason to kill them.

Sadly I think the world is made up of mob mentality and its only the very few brave that are willing to look at the other possibilities and not follow the flock

This is JUST MY OPINION :)
and MY OPINION, is, you need to do alot more research-:)

[Noexcuse]

My husband is close friends with all of the medics that went on the call and we have all sat around and talked extensively about the crime scene and this case and believe me no one in the pd or fd has any doubt about her guilt.

[JaneInOz]

and MY OPINION, is, you need to do alot more research-:)

So I take it you don't think there is a possibility that she is innocent ?
And that anyone who disagrees with your opinion should do a lot more research ?
Its my opinion as I stated. Why don't you state your opinion instead of telling me to do more research ? :rolleyes:

[Noexcuse]

I have to commend you Jane for standing your ground. Its obvious you feel very strongly about this case.:clap:

[madeleine]

I would say yes but ONLY because I think the husband is involved as well.I guess what I am trying to say is,I'd give her a chance to spill the beans.That's all.

[PomMom12]

I say "Yes" only so that hopefully we could finally get to the truth of the matter.

[MCDRAW]

I think she should have a new trial so that there won't be any questions.

[JaneInOz]

My husband is close friends with all of the medics that went on the call and we have all sat around and talked extensively about the crime scene and this case and believe me no one in the pd or fd has any doubt about her guilt.

Wow Im speechless.

Mind you Im sure I would do the same thing ;)

But seriously just because you have all sat around and discussed it doesnt make it factual that someone didnt stuff up. I know she has been found guilty but that is by a jury of her peers that did not get the full picture, but a slanted picture.
One especially of her laughing at her boys grave with the silly string - I totally GET THAT - but they didnt get to see the WHOLE TAPE

You know prosecutors can chop out bits of things and turn things to suit their purpose.

And just imagine if there is this doubt and there is more testing that could be done, but it isnt and she is put to death and then years later she is found to be innocent..

then what ? then everyone says Oh Well :eek:

Her sentence should be put down to life until there is a new trial, and the other evidence is processed

Thanks for saying good on me for standing my ground :blowkiss:

[Noexcuse]

Sure, I understand what its like to feel passionately about something.Its especially difficult when your viewpoint is in the minority.
The case is very complicated. I have no problem with any evidence new or old being retested.However it will cost the County and State.But a woman's life is priceless especially if there is a chance that evidence was missed and she was wrongly convicted.I do know the crime scene was horrific and many of the medics and officers on call that day required extensive debriefing and counseling to deal with what they had seen at the Routier house.

[JaneInOz]

Sure, I understand what its like to feel passionately about something.Its especially difficult when your viewpoint is in the minority.
The case is very complicated. I have no problem with any evidence new or old being retested.However it will cost the County and State.But a woman's life is priceless especially if there is a chance that evidence was missed and she was wrongly convicted.I do know the crime scene was horrific and many of the medics and officers on call that day required extensive debriefing and counseling to deal with what they had seen at the Routier house.

Yes I have seen the crime photos , the ones without the sheets over the boys.
I can only imagine what the actual scene looked like to the people that attended.

The first person there wasnt even able to help.

There is so much Wrong about this case, so very much, and I think being that it was so horrific, that it is easier to put the blame on the mother and have *their man* so to speak because IT WAS SO Horrific.
Imagine Not being able to charge anyone ?

I think there was some things that didnt add up, but lets face it the crime scene was a bloody mess and Darlie was in complete shock

I'd like to ask anyone if that had happened to their child/children and to you whether you would be talking any kind of sense ?

I just want her to have a new trial, and to be allowed to have all the evidence re tested with fresh eyes.
I mean look at that killer (in another thread) that killed his ex PREGNANT Ex and injured (terribly) her boyfriend..he's getting a new trial for a DP case because one of the potential jurors was hispanic and let go inappropriately they feel and that the prosectuion used emotional ploys on the jury :rolleyes:

There is NO doubt he did it - there was a eye witness

But he gets a new trial

There is a cloud over Darlies case , trial, evidence but yet she I don't see her getting a new trial ?

It will be too late when she is dead.

[Alta]

ITA with madeleine,sure give her a new trial let her rat out her husband finally.I could care less if she even got the DP,let her spend the rest of her life in a little prison cell thinking about the murders she commited.I feel no sympathy for her whatsoever.

Only my opinion.:)

[PolyGraph]

I was under the impression that the reason the blood appeared this way, was because of the wet towels that Darlie kept getting from the kitchen. Too me it does look like the blood has come in contact with some water which caused it to "pool" the way it did. I honestly believe that both boys were attacked in their sleep and that Devon never moved from the spot he fell asleep at, which is why his blood was primarily found in this spot. Damon might not of awaken during the 1st stabbing but did waken shortly after, which is why there is a "blood trail" from Damon. I believe when he woke up was when Darlie saw him moving and stabbed him again, this is when he realized his mother was trying to kill him and was trying to get away from her. I CAN'T IMAGINE THE CONFUSION THIS POOR LITTLE 5 YEAR OLD HAD AT THIS TIME. IT MAKES ME WANT TO CRY!!!! It makes me want to find out who did this and strangle/beat the crap out of them:furious: I cant even read your statement all the way throught that is how awful this case is....just infuriating to no limit!!!! I hope this person is found and caught and my good lord above if its Darlie may she rot in you knew where!!!

[PolyGraph]

I am so glad these DR forums are back!

I absolutely believe Darlie should have a new trial. The more I read the more I know that a miscarriage of justice was done - as in the crime scene , as in the Ability of the Defence Lawyer to adequately defend Darlie and present the facts properly, as in the evidence having a slanted view.

NO in my mind, people made their mind up that Darlie did it. Lets face it it was going to be a LONG haul to try and find the person that did do it, and here we have a woman , hysterical woman, not getting all her facts out STRAIGHT, and a few things seemingly to be a bit off, not in the right place, a blood spot here not how it should be , a vacumn cleaner with her blood on, things just not the way it should be and Voila we have ourselves a little murderer - Lets fry her.

Two little boys carved up, And A jury sees a mother throwing a party at a grave site of them..Yup I can understand, and without having looked into things a bit deeper I certainly would be saying GUILTY. Because I am a mother and WHO does that at a grave - one week after their child is dead ?

Plenty of people do similar things when they lose loved ones. Grief does unbelievable things.

I remember Laughing at my Mothers funeral, ridiculously laughing - it was the total giggles and I was beside myself because I couldn't understand how I could possibly giggle but - then I dissolved into tears not too long after

Grief does inexplicable things.

I do not believe Darlie Routier killed her two baby boys. WHAT FOR ? there is NO REASON on this earth for her to do it. And I do not believe that " they were in her way , her life " was a reason to kill them.

Sadly I think the world is made up of mob mentality and its only the very few brave that are willing to look at the other possibilities and not follow the flock

This is JUST MY OPINION :)

We cannot convict her upon how she looks and reacts. We have to look at the evidence at hand, which is circumstantial at best if you ask me. The blood evidence dripping down the back of her shirt could have as easily come from Darins hand dripping behind if he grabbed her from behind her neck, you never know.

I have said this before, I believe Darlie either was or now is on some type of psychotropic med, she just doesnt 'look' right. But we cannot convict her on that either..so no matter how guilty she appears does not mean she is the killer.

I find the sock thing to be a key factor in this case. I mean that there was possibly someone else there that night, I find it hard to believe that Darlie did all that then ran out the door down a ways from the home and dropped a sock on the ground, then came all the back to the house to make the 911 call, that makes no sense. Also another thing I was thinking about, if we think for one minute...that Darlie really did it, then why would she leave Damon it was I believe who was still alive BEFORE she called the police? why not wait till hes def dead? why wouldnt she have finished him off before he had a chance to blab her out? she was there longer with him than anyone else...If the theory is that Darin came downstairs and that is why she stopped trying to kill him than what took Darin so long??? why wouldnt he have woken up sooner and seen what was going on??? and why for the love of God would he protect her if he was totally innocent knowing he could risk himself going to jail? he does not seem like the type of person (man) which would throw himself under a bus for a woman so I totally do not think he is innocent in this....which makes me think that Darin was stabbing her while an intruder was killing the boys....that would have explained the sock and explained why her blood was underneath the boys...Darin may have thought he would get the insurance money if he knocked them all off except maybe she fought him off her, then he threatened her if she rated him out he would do in the baby that was left! I dont know just thinking ...MOO

[PolyGraph]

My husband is close friends with all of the medics that went on the call and we have all sat around and talked extensively about the crime scene and this case and believe me no one in the pd or fd has any doubt about her guilt.

Speaking of which, the only thing to me that makes me think that she is totally guilty was the officer's statement that he told her to go to her son and stop the bleeding and she did not! That makes no sense what soever, unless she was dopped up on some kind of pills and was out of her mind at the time...still makes her guilty in that sense anyway....

[JaneInOz]

Speaking of which, the only thing to me that makes me think that she is totally guilty was the officer's statement that he told her to go to her son and stop the bleeding and she did not! That makes no sense what soever, unless she was dopped up on some kind of pills and was out of her mind at the time...still makes her guilty in that sense anyway....

And then of course there is the statements that she was possibly sexually interfered with (no panties) but where was the rape kit ?

Oh woops they FORGOT TO DO ONE !

The office could have been confused with all the chaos going on. It happens
That crime scene was NOT like a normal crime scent - people were all over it making a big ole mess through it all.

How is that fair ?

In regards to here




Quote:
Originally Posted by whitywendy View Post
I was under the impression that the reason the blood appeared this way, was because of the wet towels that Darlie kept getting from the kitchen. Too me it does look like the blood has come in contact with some water which caused it to "pool" the way it did. I honestly believe that both boys were attacked in their sleep and that Devon never moved from the spot he fell asleep at, which is why his blood was primarily found in this spot. Damon might not of awaken during the 1st stabbing but did waken shortly after, which is why there is a "blood trail" from Damon. I believe when he woke up was when Darlie saw him moving and stabbed him again, this is when he realized his mother was trying to kill him and was trying to get away from her. I CAN'T IMAGINE THE CONFUSION THIS POOR LITTLE 5 YEAR OLD HAD AT THIS TIME. IT MAKES ME WANT TO CRY!!!!
It makes me want to find out who did this and strangle/beat the crap out of them I cant even read your statement all the way throught that is how awful this case is....just infuriating to no limit!!!! I hope this person is found and caught and my good lord above if its Darlie may she rot in you knew where!!!

This particular case is SO very emotive that it is very easy to understand WHY everyone pointed the finger at her and convicted her

If you were a Juror you would have convicted her too right ?

Trouble is I do not believe all the facts and evidence was properly presented

Why is everyone afraid of a new trial ?

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm

[PolyGraph]

And then of course there is the statements that she was possibly sexually interfered with (no panties) but where was the rape kit ?

Oh woops they FORGOT TO DO ONE !

The office could have been confused with all the chaos going on. It happens
That crime scene was NOT like a normal crime scent - people were all over it making a big ole mess through it all.

How is that fair ?

In regards to here






This particular case is SO very emotive that it is very easy to understand WHY everyone pointed the finger at her and convicted her

If you were a Juror you would have convicted her too right ?

Trouble is I do not believe all the facts and evidence was properly presented

Why is everyone afraid of a new trial ?

Things that make you go hmmmmmmm

In MOO hahahaha, (joke from my last post youll get it if you see it),
They do not want to give her a new trial (I mean all that dont want her to have one) because they are so angered by all of this and strongly feel that she is guilty, so I understand completely how they feel, they do not want to waste time for something they feel she will be convicted with all over again, I say test the DNA and if it comes out that the fingerprint was someone else's aside from the boys, give her a new trial, its only fair, if the dna comes back that its the boys and they find no outsider dna Im not sure what to think. I am totally on the fence on the question of whether or not she should get a new trial, heres my fear WHAT IF SHE IS DEF GUILTY OF DOING THAT TO THOSE POOR LITTLE GUYS..AND SHE GETS SET FREE??? uggggghhhh I dont know what to think , I need to go find those transcripts....:read: