Handcuffed Prisoner Begs Police Not To Kill (Murder IMO) Him...Graphic Video

[Wudge]

"I can't breathe, man. Don't kill me man, Don't kill me."
.
.
.
"In Gwinnett County, Georgia, an un-edited police videotape shows 31-year-old Deacon Frederick Williams being struck with a TASER five times in 43 seconds, just 4 minutes after being led into the jail.

He was handcuffed behind his back and in leg restraints, following an epileptic seizure at his home; an ambulance was called by his wife and son, but the police arrived first. His last words were: "Don't kill me, man. Don't kill me."

No charges have been filed in the torture / murder; the County DA refused to show this video to a Grand Jury, even though another man in custody was murdered just months earlier after being tortured with a TASER by the same police."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1964707186772642906


Does anyone see this as other than murder?

[Beyond Belief]

I hate tazers................

[dkitty]

I hate tazers................

I hate them too...I don't think they should be used at all..

[Mygirlsadie]

What in the world is going on? I just got done watching a clip on the news showing a 15 year old girl getting tasered and punched in the face by the Police officer. She was also begging...I can't say what she did to cause this because I missed that part of the clip but what I did see made me feel sick.

[gooniequeen]

wait? so he was arrested for having an epileptic seizure? What on earth? There must be more - do we have any additional details?

Those officers are a disgrace.

[SuziQ]

There was the lady a few weeks ago that was tazed repeatedly. She has pants with burnholes in them and her vision was affected to the point she couldn't drive.

[Wudge]

What in the world is going on? I just got done watching a clip on the news showing a 15 year old girl getting tasered and punched in the face by the Police officer. She was also begging...I can't say what she did to cause this because I missed that part of the clip but what I did see made me feel sick.


Unlike the story you reference, this story is years old, but I never saw the murder video until just this morning, which is beyond belief.

[JBean]

do we know what happened that caused the police to bring him in in the first place? It says she called an ambulance after a seizure but the police arrived first.


I have an epileptic son. In his postictal period following the actual seizing , he is extremely argumentative and agitated. I can tell you with 100% certainty that if the police tried to restrain him like this following a seizure it would be nearly impossible. He just need to be left alone for about 20 minutes until this phase ends and then he will sleep.

In my son's case, if the police tried to talk to him post seizure he would not be cooperative. he has sworn at me and told me to f-off. He has no memory of any of this behavior once his episodes are over. This is quite common.

This video is my biggest fear. I am afraid his post ictal belligerence is going to be mistaken for something else and there will be an attempt to restrain him. I can see what happened in this video happening to my son.
It scares me to death and I also see this as murder.

[wildTrose]

Im sure as officers they are used to people pretending to calm down or passout only to try and take over the officers however...they should also know when a man is truly unresponsive!
How many times did they have to check his heart to tell if it was beating or not? what idiots! then when they realized there was no heartbeat they didnt even immediatley start cpr...and then they were going to use the paddles on him after they had already used the taser on him? geesh this one made me mad!
If he had an epilepic seizure why did the police take him anyways? the ambulance was called for a medical purpose...
I hope his family sued the heck out of them!

[Wudge]

do we know what happened that caused the police to bring him in in the first place? It says she called an ambulance after a seizure but the police arrived first.


I have an epileptic son. In his postictal period following the actual seizing , he is extremely argumentative and agitated. I can tell you with 100% certainty that if the police tried to restrain him like this following a seizure it would be nearly impossible. He just need to be left alone for about 20 minutes until this phase ends and then he will sleep.

In my son's case, if the police tried to talk to him post seizure he would not be cooperative. he has sworn at me and told me to f-off. He has no memory of any of this behavior once his episodes are over. This is quite common.

This video is my biggest fear. I am afraid his post ictal belligerence is going to be mistaken for something else and there will be an attempt to restrain him. I can see what happened in this video happening to my son.
It scares me to death and I also see this as murder.


Hi JBean. He was a longtime epileptic.

It's hard to imagine the Grand Jury not being shown this video. This is just more "Nifonging". However. this time the D.A's intent was to save the police from an obvious (IMO) murder trial, and he was successful in his cover-up. This is just incredible.

Clearly, your concerns are well founded.

[Wudge]

Im sure as officers they are used to people pretending to calm down or passout only to try and take over the officers however...they should also know when a man is truly unresponsive!
How many times did they have to check his heart to tell if it was beating or not? what idiots! then when they realized there was no heartbeat they didnt even immediatley start cpr...and then they were going to use the paddles on him after they had already used the taser on him? geesh this one made me mad!
If he had an epilepic seizure why did the police take him anyways? the ambulance was called for a medical purpose...
I hope his family sued the heck out of them!



Ok, ready? Sit down.

The Gwinett county Medical Examiner said that the five shocks from the taser was not the proximate cause of his death.

[KatK]

What in the world is going on? I just got done watching a clip on the news showing a 15 year old girl getting tasered and punched in the face by the Police officer. She was also begging...I can't say what she did to cause this because I missed that part of the clip but what I did see made me feel sick.


Apparently she punched and kicked the officer prior to his activating the audio and going in front of the video camera, then she *BIT* the officer's hand. People at another message board point out that this gives a very real risk of nasty, life threatening infection, as well as diseases like HIV etc. (Human bites are worse than cat or dog bites by far.)

What is the story on why the police were arresting the guy having the seizure, anyway?! :waitasec: :confused: :eek:

[JBean]

Hi JBean, He was a longtime epileptic.

It's hard to imagine that the Grand Jury not being shown this video. This is just more "Nifonging". However. this time the D.A's intent was to save the police from an obvious (IMO) murder trial, and he was successful in his cover-up. This is just incredible.

Clearly, your concerns are well founded.
Hi Wudge, hope you are well.
I was afraid you were going to say that he was an epileptic. My son wears a necklace to identified as such, but who knows how well our LE is trained to handle this? I think they will taser first ask questions later.
This is positively frightening.

[dark_shadows]

link (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7622314)

Tasers Implicated in Excited Delirium Deaths



Williams stopped breathing shortly after being stunned with a Taser; he died a few hours later. His family is suing the county and Taser International; the company has made it clear that it plans to argue Williams died of excited delirium.


Mr. Williams had no drugs in his system. None. So this is in the article;

Medical Condition or Legal Cover?
Civil-liberties groups fear that the diagnosis is being used to cover up police abuse — and to protect companies like Taser International from lawsuits.



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Mygirlsadie]

Can someone please explain what Excited Delirium means?..

[dark_shadows]

link (http://www.wingcomltd.com/Articles/taser.htm)


From the link;

“Fred was my sister’s son. Since birth, he had this disease – epilepsy. Prior to the incident, he had not taken his medicine. I know how he would get right before an attack – very strong. On several occasions, he would hurt himself from falling on his back or face. One time he almost broke my hand when I was trying to wrestle him down, but he was not a mad man.
“He was practically beaten to death at his home before he got to the jail,” Railey continued. “His wife had called 911 and asked for paramedics to be sent over to the house. She called to get him stabilized. Instead, they sent a police officer. His wife didn’t understand why they sent the police instead of medics. Then his nine year old son called again, asking them to, ‘Send the truck with the medicine,’ which I think he was referring to an ambulance.
“When the police officer showed up, he remarked, ‘I’ve got this,’ even though the wife kept telling him that he could not handle Fred without the help of medics. At that point, the policeman took his stick or baton and tried to hit my nephew. The hits were blocked, and then my nephew took the stick away from the policeman and hit him in the nose. At that point, the policeman issued an “officer down code” and 15 squad cars with some 20 officers arrived,” Railey said. “He was badly beaten and near death before he reached the jail.”



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[dark_shadows]

Can someone please explain what Excited Delirium means?..
Dear Mygirlsadie,
It is on the link. Here is another;
link (http://www.zarc.com/english/other_sprays/reports/excited_delirium.html)



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[JBean]

Thank you for that link D_S.
In my son's case, excited delirium is almost a description of his postictal phase:

>>Symptoms are said to include extreme agitation, aggressive, violent behavior and incoherence<<

So just imagine on top of that the possibility that true excited delirium could set in , plus an attempt to contain him..the results would be disastrous.
My son had a seizure in an ER room one night and it took 6 of us to keep him on the bed so he wouldn't fall off. After he was very upset that we were even touching him. He does not believe that he has just had a seizure, so he cannot make sense of the fact that he is not himself at this point.
Can you imagine someone like this being handcuffed? My son would literally flip out if he were restrained in such a way postictally. I cannot even think about it it makes me sick.

My son is not violent as in hitting, he is just argumentative and belligerent, something LE doesn't like to well.

[Wudge]

Hi Wudge, hope you are well.
I was afraid you were going to say that he was an epileptic. My son wears a necklace to identified as such, but who knows how well our LE is trained to handle this? I think they will taser first ask questions later.
This is positively frightening.

It is frightening from many perspectives. The fact that this same Sherriff's office was involved in another taser related death in their jail just months before Williams death, and, of course, the ridiculous claims from the Sherriff's office, the ME, the D.A., etc..

An attorney sent me a file and a link to the video last night. And though the happenings are dated, I felt it deserved exposure here -- because of the incredible scene, claims, D.A. handling et al.

Also of note is that, as regards the civil suit, the Sherriif's office decided to blame the manufacturer. Of course, they deny responsibility too.

The bottom line is that (IMO) people should have been criminally tried here. Apart from his death and horrific scene, the fact that no one was indicted bothers me immensely.

[dark_shadows]

Thank you for that link D_S.
In my son's case, excited delirium is almost a description of his postictal phase:

>>Symptoms are said to include extreme agitation, aggressive, violent behavior and incoherence<<

So just imagine on top of that the possibility that true excited delirium could set in , plus an attempt to contain him..the results would be disastrous.
My son had a seizure in an ER room one night and it took 6 of us to keep him on the bed so he wouldn't fall off. After he was very upset that we were even touching him. He does not believe that he has just had a seizure, so he cannot make sense of the fact that he is not himself at this point.
Can you imagine someone like this being handcuffed? My son would literally flip out if he were restrained in such a way postictally. I cannot even think about it it makes me sick.

My son is not violent as in hitting, he is just argumentative and belligerent, something LE doesn't like to well.

To my very dearest JBean,:blowkiss:

I am so very sorry.
I can see why you would be so worried about your son and having something happen to him.


All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

[Cheetah]

I hate tazers................

I have a neurological condition and if I were ever tasered, it would kill me. My mother, who is a crack addict and my 14 year old also have it. I don't worry too much about me, but I do worry about my mother and child. Hopefully I have taught my child to respect police officers and do exactly what they say. As for my mother....I can only pray.

I understand the need for police to use them, but I wish they could come up with another solution. For some people...these things are fatal.

[JBean]

It is frightening from many perspectives. The fact that this same Sherriff's office was involved in another taser related death in their jail just months before Williams death, and, of course, the ridiculous claims from the Sherriff's office, the ME, the D.A., etc..

An attorney sent me a file and a link to the video last night. And though the happenings are dated, I felt is deserved exposure here -- because of the incredible scene, claims, D.A. handing et al.

Also of note is that, as regards the civil suit, the Sherriif's office decided to blame the manufacturer. Of course, they deny responsibility too.

The bottom line is that (IMO) people should have been criminally tried here. Apart from his death and horrific scene, the fact that no one was indicted bothers me immensely.
I agree with you across the board and I think exposing this activity is critical. I do not trust our local LE based on my own personal experience which makes all this even more worrisome to me.
I just found an interesting article and blog. While I am only posting a snippet of one tiny section there is good info in the rest of it:

>>Both North County men who died after being shot with a Taser were shocked at least twice while struggling with police or deputies, according to officials.

The medical examiner's office said Solorio died because he couldn't breathe at some point during the struggle and he suffered irreversible brain damage. The autopsy on Mendoza hasn't been completed, pending laboratory results, officials said.

"All the evidence that's out there is very clear that multiple shocks with a Taser would be equivalent to Russian roulette," Cadena said. "The studies that are out there haven't really explored the conditions that could exacerbate the situation."

Those conditions include epilepsy, heart pacemakers, people on medication or who have medical conditions, the mentally ill and substance abusers, she said<<
http://www.viciousenterprises.com/summersblog/labels/Police.html

this section is from the entry on 5/2/07 which includes a taser study.

[Taximom]

JBean, I'm glad you said what you did about seizures. The few my daughter had left her confused and sort of anxious. I had no idea they could react this way(belligerant) too. Hers have stopped, possibly due to the meds, but I will keep this in mind. If she did this at school and someone there didn't understand, she could get hurt. Of course, nothing like what happened to this man, but still.

That poor, poor man and his family. :(

[JBean]

link (http://www.wingcomltd.com/Articles/taser.htm)


From the link;

“Fred was my sister’s son. Since birth, he had this disease – epilepsy. Prior to the incident, he had not taken his medicine. I know how he would get right before an attack – very strong. On several occasions, he would hurt himself from falling on his back or face. One time he almost broke my hand when I was trying to wrestle him down, but he was not a mad man.
“He was practically beaten to death at his home before he got to the jail,” Railey continued. “His wife had called 911 and asked for paramedics to be sent over to the house. She called to get him stabilized. Instead, they sent a police officer. His wife didn’t understand why they sent the police instead of medics. Then his nine year old son called again, asking them to, ‘Send the truck with the medicine,’ which I think he was referring to an ambulance.
“When the police officer showed up, he remarked, ‘I’ve got this,’ even though the wife kept telling him that he could not handle Fred without the help of medics. At that point, the policeman took his stick or baton and tried to hit my nephew. The hits were blocked, and then my nephew took the stick away from the policeman and hit him in the nose. At that point, the policeman issued an “officer down code” and 15 squad cars with some 20 officers arrived,” Railey said. “He was badly beaten and near death before he reached the jail.”



Respectfully,
dark_shadows
Oh
My
God.
I don't think I can read this anymore because this is exactly what I have pictured happening to my son. This just kicks me in the belly.
If my son has an advocate I imagine all will go well. but if he is alone or with someone unfamiliar.
He did have one in his office once and no one aroiund realized he was epileptic. They called 911 and it was the medics that explained to everyone in the office that he was argumentative because he was postictal and should be left alone for a few minutes. I imagine these paramedics put up with a lot. My fear is the police arriving prior to medics and this is what happened to this poor man.

I can see very clearly what happened to this man and it didn't have to.

[dark_shadows]

Apparently on a website yesterday, it was said that Mr. Williams autopsy states that he died of brain damage from a heart attack.

This is the site it is on;

link (http://www.assatashakur.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24862)


Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[JBean]

JBean, I'm glad you said what you did about seizures. The few my daughter had left her confused and sort of anxious. I had no idea they could react this way(belligerant) too. Hers have stopped, possibly due to the meds, but I will keep this in mind. If she did this at school and someone there didn't understand, she could get hurt. Of course, nothing like what happened to this man, but still.

That poor, poor man and his family. :(
Most have their own pattern, confusion and sleep being very common.
. I know exactly what my son will do. I have to stay nearby so he doesn't get hurt. He completely denies having a seizure and wants to be let alone to go about his business. I will restrain him in the sense that I won't let him leave the room or get behind the wheel! That makes him very angry because he is a complete state of delirium and confusion. When he was 2, I could physically restrain him, at 20 years old not so much.

The man in Wudge's story sounds as though he has a postictal much like my son.

[dark_shadows]

There is a comment about Mr. Williams death after the article, it is the first post dated 5/20/07.

link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070520_1__OKLAH46434)

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[Wudge]

Oh
My
God.
I don't think I can read this anymore because this is exactly what I have pictured happening to my son. This just kicks me in the belly.
If my son has an advocate I imagine all will go well. but if he is alone or with someone unfamiliar.
He did have one in his office once and no one aroiund realized he was epileptic. They called 911 and it was the medics that explained to everyone in the office that he was argumentative because he was postictal and should be left alone for a few minutes. I imagine these paramedics put up with a lot. My fear is the police arriving prior to medics and this is what happened to this poor man.

I can see very clearly what happened to this man and it didn't have to.

Clearly, William's death did not have to happen, and it should not have happened.

As regards your son, perhaps the best thing you can do is try to ensure people who are in contact with your son are aware of his condition and are given the appropriate do's and dont's -- I suspect you have already done this.

[AfterMidnight]

I'm very angry after seeing that video and several others over the past few weeks. Isn't it time we took back our rights? LE is no longer our friend.

[JBean]

Clearly, William's death did not have to happen, and it should not have happened.

As regards your son, perhaps the best thing you can do is try to ensure people who are in contact with your son are aware of your his condition and are given the appropriate do's and dont's -- I suspect you have already done this.I feel so bad for this family.What a true tragedy.
Regarding my son, he and I have told all his friends what to do. I have no doubt that if he is the company of any his buddies or family members he will have a strong advocate available. Unfortunately ya just never know where and when and if he is out at the mall by himself...lord only knows what may happen.
Fortunately, he has been seizure free since 9/11/06. He is on good meds andthey seem to be protecting well.
But as a parent I still worry :D

Thanks for posting this article Wudge. I think as much attention needs to be drawn to these episodes as possible. That video was just unbelievable. I do not know what the answer is, but we should be looking for one right now.

[Mygirlsadie]

I had a girl in my P.E. class in high school that had a seizure we all knew she had Epilepsy so her having the seizure was not so so shocking to us but I remember when the teacher and a few others went over to help her she was screaming 'f... you' & ' leave me the F alone...don't touch me...etc etc.. then she started screaming at all of us telling us to stop staring at her and at the time I thought she was probably just embarresed but I guess it wasnt that at all it was excited delirium. Now at least people know that this is something that can't be helped. At the time we were all thinking dang you know what the hell is her problem? We are just trying to help her.. :(

[JBean]

I had a girl in my P.E. class in high school that had a seizure we all knew she had Epilepsy so her having the seizure was not so so shocking to us but I remember when the teacher and a few others went over to help her she was screaming 'f... you' & ' leave me the F alone...don't touch me...etc etc.. then she started screaming at all of us telling us to stop staring at her and at the time I thought she was probably just embarresed but I guess it wasnt that at all it was excited delirium. Now at least people know that this is something that can't be helped. At the time we were all thinking dang you know what the hell is her problem? We are just trying to help her.. :(
This is a very common scenario MGS, very common. I know of bystanders not understanding and really being put off at the behavior of the epileptic and feeling exactly as you describe. She wasn't embarrassed, she actually had no idea what was going on and probably had no recollection of saying what she did. It's misleading because their eyes are open and they are talking to you, but they are just in another phase of their seizure.

[JBean]

In my house we don't go "postal" we go "postictal" :)

[SieSie]

No charges have been filed in the torture / murder; the County DA refused to show this video to a Grand Jury, even though another man in custody was murdered just months earlier after being tortured with a TASER by the same police."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1964707186772642906


Does anyone see this as other than murder?
:doh: Why, oh why, did I click and watch that whole 22 minute video?! :doh: I'm soooo confused, saddened and angry right now.

I don't understand the video - I'm left with a million questions... what on earth were they doing to him near the beginning, when they first brought him into the room - there are tons of LE huddled around him, doing something to him - he's already in handcuffs (behind his back) at this point - what are they poking and prodding at him for? I don't get it - what are they trying to do??? I've never been arrested - is this standard? Are they patting him down for weapons or something?? Wouldn't that have already been done if he's in handcuffs? I'm confused.

What's with the cop behind him - looks like he's choking the poor guy with his hold around his neck, and the guy at this point is not moving. Why did they feel they needed that many people to bring in one person? Is that standard?

I can't really tell on the video when he's being tasered, but if his hands were already restrained behind him and they had that many people there with arms and legs holding him down, I don't understand the need for him to be tasered. How can cops really think that someone who is already restrained would CALM down when being inflicted with pain? It would be only natural to react and move about when you're being hurt - I don't understand the logic there at all.

I am also shocked at how long it seemed to take for them to realize there was a problem - it appeared on the video that it wasn't JUST LE there, I saw a guy that wasn't in a police uniform and he had a stethoscope - why were they trying to find a pulse and feel his heart time and time again when they could've used the stethoscope?? :waitasec: Later in the video they do try to help him, but it's medical personnel and not the same LE who brought him in.

Why was it being videotaped? Why didn't they keep the video on the guy to show what was happening to him (especially when they were trying to revive him). ?

I do not understand why the video wasn't shown to the grand jury - that just seems like a no-brainer to me - it's evidence to what exactly happened. It should've been shown and people should've been brought up on charges, IMO.

I'm saddened because there was no justice for this man and his poor family was left devastated. It's an old case and there's nothing I can do about it and that makes me angry. Prayers for the family he left behind.

I think I'm gonna go stick my head back in the sand now. Oh darn, I can't do that - I still have to go catch up on Chester Stiles case. I'm praying they've caught that scum by now.

[Wudge]

:doh: Why, oh why, did I click and watch that whole 22 minute video?! :doh: I'm soooo confused, saddened and angry right now.

I don't understand the video - I'm left with a million questions... what on earth were they doing to him near the beginning, when they first brought him into the room - there are tons of LE huddled around him, doing something to him - he's already in handcuffs (behind his back) at this point - what are they poking and prodding at him for? I don't get it - what are they trying to do??? I've never been arrested - is this standard? Are they patting him down for weapons or something?? Wouldn't that have already been done if he's in handcuffs? I'm confused.

What's with the cop behind him - looks like he's choking the poor guy with his hold around his neck, and the guy at this point is not moving. Why did they feel they needed that many people to bring in one person? Is that standard?

I can't really tell on the video when he's being tasered, but if his hands were already restrained behind him and they had that many people there with arms and legs holding him down, I don't understand the need for him to be tasered. How can cops really think that someone who is already restrained would CALM down when being inflicted with pain? It would be only natural to react and move about when you're being hurt - I don't understand the logic there at all.

I am also shocked at how long it seemed to take for them to realize there was a problem - it appeared on the video that it wasn't JUST LE there, I saw a guy that wasn't in a police uniform and he had a stethoscope - why were they trying to find a pulse and feel his heart time and time again when they could've used the stethoscope?? :waitasec: Later in the video they do try to help him, but it's medical personnel and not the same LE who brought him in.

Why was it being videotaped? Why didn't they keep the video on the guy to show what was happening to him (especially when they were trying to revive him). ?

I do not understand why the video wasn't shown to the grand jury - that just seems like a no-brainer to me - it's evidence to what exactly happened. It should've been shown and people should've been brought up on charges, IMO.

I'm saddened because there was no justice for this man and his poor family was left devastated. It's an old case and there's nothing I can do about it and that makes me angry. Prayers for the family he left behind.

I think I'm gonna go stick my head back in the sand now. Oh darn, I can't do that - I still have to go catch up on Chester Stiles case. I'm praying they've caught that scum by now.


The D.A. protected the officers. It is that simple. Such protection is very common in southern states (and in various states outside of the south as well). No one in the D.A's office or LE is ever at fault in cases such as this one -- just ask Mike Nifong.

All the family has now are horrific memories and a wrongful death suit.

[AfterMidnight]

This man was not committing a crime. He was supposed to receive medical attention. Why were the police involved in the first place? I have no respect left for the police.

[SieSie]

The D.A. protected the officers. It is that simple. Such protection is very common in southern states (and in various states outside of the south as well). No one in the D.A's office or LE is ever at fault in cases such as this one -- just ask Mike Nifong.

All the family has now are horrific memories and a wrongful death suit.
:( This makes me so sad, angry and distrustful. :( It's frustrating if you can't do anything to make a difference, too - that's why sometimes I'd rather not read these cases. :doh:

[dark_shadows]

:doh: Why, oh why, did I click and watch that whole 22 minute video?! :doh: I'm soooo confused, saddened and angry right now.

I don't understand the video - I'm left with a million questions... what on earth were they doing to him near the beginning, when they first brought him into the room - there are tons of LE huddled around him, doing something to him - he's already in handcuffs (behind his back) at this point - what are they poking and prodding at him for? I don't get it - what are they trying to do??? I've never been arrested - is this standard? Are they patting him down for weapons or something?? Wouldn't that have already been done if he's in handcuffs? I'm confused.

What's with the cop behind him - looks like he's choking the poor guy with his hold around his neck, and the guy at this point is not moving. Why did they feel they needed that many people to bring in one person? Is that standard?

I can't really tell on the video when he's being tasered, but if his hands were already restrained behind him and they had that many people there with arms and legs holding him down, I don't understand the need for him to be tasered. How can cops really think that someone who is already restrained would CALM down when being inflicted with pain? It would be only natural to react and move about when you're being hurt - I don't understand the logic there at all.

I am also shocked at how long it seemed to take for them to realize there was a problem - it appeared on the video that it wasn't JUST LE there, I saw a guy that wasn't in a police uniform and he had a stethoscope - why were they trying to find a pulse and feel his heart time and time again when they could've used the stethoscope?? :waitasec: Later in the video they do try to help him, but it's medical personnel and not the same LE who brought him in.

Why was it being videotaped? Why didn't they keep the video on the guy to show what was happening to him (especially when they were trying to revive him). ?

I do not understand why the video wasn't shown to the grand jury - that just seems like a no-brainer to me - it's evidence to what exactly happened. It should've been shown and people should've been brought up on charges, IMO.

I'm saddened because there was no justice for this man and his poor family was left devastated. It's an old case and there's nothing I can do about it and that makes me angry. Prayers for the family he left behind.

I think I'm gonna go stick my head back in the sand now. Oh darn, I can't do that - I still have to go catch up on Chester Stiles case. I'm praying they've caught that scum by now.
To my dearest SieSie,:blowkiss:
When arrested persons or brought in as an incap were brought into the facility where I worked, we had to pat search them prior to going into the facility. If they are combative, they are taken into a cell and are still handcuffed until they are under control. Normally several Officers are present for the intake.
The medical staff is there also when a person is brought in. They ones you saw were facility medical staff. Also any use of force has to be taped on video. Also anytime a person is put in the restraint chair, it has to be filmed.

All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

[AfterMidnight]

To my dearest SieSie,:blowkiss:
When arrested persons or brought in as an incap were brought into the facility where I worked, we had to pat search them prior to going into the facility. If they are combative, they are taken into a cell and are still handcuffed until they are under control. Normally several Officers are present for the intake.
The medical staff is there also when a person is brought in. They ones you saw were facility medical staff. Also any use of force has to be taped on video. Also anytime a person is put in the restraint chair, it has to be filmed.

All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

WHY was he ARRESTED?

[dark_shadows]

WHY was he ARRESTED?
Dearest AfterMidnight,:blowkiss:
I do not know if Mr. Williams was arrested or brought in as a "John Doe", that is what an incap is refered as. (they are not charged with a crime, but brought in for their safety or the public safety.

I will have to look more to see why he was placed there.

The video has been on the net for months and I just now saw it. I was not able to view the entire video.

All my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

[dark_shadows]

This article states that he was thought to have assaulted an Officer;
link (http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=67131)
“It appears as though the officers were upset and thought in error that Deacon Williams had injured a colleague. It appeared that they were purposed to teach him a lesson at the jail and, in so doing, they killed him,” Johnson said.



Even though the other article I posted states that Mr. Williams sister said the It was her nephew that hit the Officer, not Mr. Williams.
This article is from 2005 and it has the video, so the video has been there longer than I thought.


Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[AfterMidnight]

Dearest AfterMidnight,:blowkiss:
I do not know if Mr. Williams was arrested or brought in as a "John Doe", that is what an incap is refered as. (they are not charged with a crime, but brought in for their safety or the public safety.

I will have to look more to see why he was placed there.

The video has been on the net for months and I just now saw it. I was not able to view the entire video.

All my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

I found out why he was placed there:


“He was practically beaten to death at his home before he got to the jail,” Railey continued. “His wife had called 911 and asked for paramedics to be sent over to the house. She called to get him stabilized. Instead, they sent a police officer. His wife didn’t understand why they sent the police instead of medics. Then his nine year old son called again, asking them to, ‘Send the truck with the medicine,’ which I think he was referring to an ambulance.
“When the police officer showed up, he remarked, ‘I’ve got this,’ even though the wife kept telling him that he could not handle Fred without the help of medics. At that point, the policeman took his stick or baton and tried to hit my nephew. The hits were blocked, and then my nephew took the stick away from the policeman and hit him in the nose. At that point, the policeman issued an “officer down code” and 15 squad cars with some 20 officers arrived,” Railey said. “He was badly beaten and near death before he reached the jail.”
http://www.wingcomltd.com/Articles/taser.htm

I realize not all officers are bad, but. . .there are enough to turn me against LE as a group. Actually, I've known several personally (one in family) and none of them stuck to the letter of the law. Some were downright dangerous.

I've often, of late, asked myself where I/we/us would be without the police holding the line between us and the criminals. In the old days I would have said the police are the only thing keeping us from anarchy. Now. . .I believe my odds of survival are about even between the criminals and the police. Yes, my opinion has sunk that low.

I've done a lot of reading on these boards and there are very few threads where the police come out looking good. I believe they are hiring control freaks, narcisists, and sociopaths, sticking them in uniforms, handing them a gun, a baton, and a tazer, and covering up when they "go to it".

With All Due Respect,
AfterMidnight

[dark_shadows]

This is what happened that day;


The date is May 25, 2004. The Williams family is at home watching the “Oprah” show. Mr. Williams begins to have an epilepsy seizure. “The type of seizure that he had experienced would either make him fall, jerk, weak or delusional. This particular day, he became delusional,” explained Mr. Johnson. “He started talking about devils taking his money, planning to kill him and destroy his family. In his delusional state, Mr. Williams began to implicate his wife in the plot. He became angry with her and chased her around the house. Scared and confused, Mrs. Williams runs out of the house with their children, ages 1-9.”
Mr. Williams stands in the front yard and continues his delusional state. His 9-year-old son calls 911 and explains that his father is sick and did not take his medicine. The son pleads with 911 to send a “the truck with the medicine.” Mrs. Williams then calls 911 and reiterates her husband’s medical condition.
Moments later, the first officer arrives. Mrs. Williams and a deacon from her church explain that Mr. Williams needs his medication.
The officer begins to shout at Mr. Williams to quiet down and get back in the house. The officer then strikes Mr. Williams two or three times. A scuffle ensues and the officer receives an abrasion to his nose. The officer pulls his gun and calls for backup, radioing “officer down.”
Fifteen to 20 police cars come from the City of Lawrenceville and the Sheriff’s Department of Gwinnett County. An ambulance arrives and treats the injured police officer, not Mr. Williams who is seen being carried off to jail.

This is the link from 2005;
link (http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/printer_2077.shtml)


Williams had been arrested on domestic violence charges (http://expertise.blogdrive.com/archive/399.html)

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[dark_shadows]

From the last link I posted;
(5) At the jail, while still hog-tied and securely bound, Mr. Williams is tasered at least 5 times according to the autopsy reports. I say at least 5 time because not every taser attack results in an identifiable burn mark. There are mounted cameras at the jail and an officer reportedly had a hand held camcorded to record the entire ordeal. Of course, at this point, Gwinnett has refused to provide either of these recordings. Gwinnett County justifies the tasering under these conditions because according to another written report by a senior officer at the jail, Mr. Williams was reportedly thrashing and jerking his body upon arrival at the jail. Nowhere in this second report does the senior officer indicate that Mr. Williams attacks any of the officers, throws a punch, kick, bite, or anything; nonetheless, Gwinnett County officials, in the media, justifies the MURDER of this young father, husband, only child, deacon, friend, etc., because his apparent thrashing and jerking was "combative" while he is still hog-tied and securely bound. In fact, the senior officer records in his report that Mr. Williams is conscious at least for a moment, and utters his last and only words "PLEASE DON'T KILL ME." Upon arrival of Mr. Williams' body at the hospital, Doctors record that there were plastic instruments that were apparently used to hog-tied Mr. Williams at his house. Doctors' examinations revealed acute with suspicion of chronic renal failure, negligible brain activity, negligible pulse, and negligible blood pressure. His hands and feet were cold and capillary refill was poor. He had no eye movements, no muscular movements and his entire body was flaccid. His pupils were dilated 6 mm and fixed. Doctors' impression were that there was cardiac arrest, brain hemorrhage, pulmonary embolus and/or seizure. Mr. Williams reportedly lost all pulses at about 1948 hours. He had no gag response.



Respectfully,
dark_shadows

[deanws]

What in the world is going on? I just got done watching a clip on the news showing a 15 year old girl getting tasered and punched in the face by the Police officer. She was also begging...I can't say what she did to cause this because I missed that part of the clip but what I did see made me feel sick.Sadie...that girl deserved what she got and more. She was fighting and bit him. I saw the WHOLE ,....not just a clip of it on the news. She is NOT a victim like this person was.

[SieSie]

To my dearest SieSie,:blowkiss:
When arrested persons or brought in as an incap were brought into the facility where I worked, we had to pat search them prior to going into the facility. If they are combative, they are taken into a cell and are still handcuffed until they are under control. Normally several Officers are present for the intake.
The medical staff is there also when a person is brought in. They ones you saw were facility medical staff. Also any use of force has to be taped on video. Also anytime a person is put in the restraint chair, it has to be filmed.

All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows
Thanks for your reply, d_s! I swear, you are the sweetest poster in the world. :blowkiss:

Anyway, I bolded one of your comments above - do you think he was being combative when they used the taser on him? Just curious about your opinion. I can't quite tell exactly when the taser was being used, but he didn't look very combative in ANY of the video that I saw (and I watched the full 22 minutes).

Granted, I didn't see how he was acting BEFORE he came in - but reading other people's comments about their experiences with people who had seizures and their demeanor afterwards, it makes me sad to think that this was handled soooo poorly that it cost an innocent man his life.

Respect given right back to ya, d_s!! :D Stay safe.

[dark_shadows]

Thanks for your reply, d_s! I swear, you are the sweetest poster in the world. :blowkiss:

Anyway, I bolded one of your comments above - do you think he was being combative when they used the taser on him? Just curious about your opinion. I can't quite tell exactly when the taser was being used, but he didn't look very combative in ANY of the video that I saw (and I watched the full 22 minutes).

Granted, I didn't see how he was acting BEFORE he came in - but reading other people's comments about their experiences with people who had seizures and their demeanor afterwards, it makes me sad to think that this was handled soooo poorly that it cost an innocent man his life.

Respect given right back to ya, d_s!! :D Stay safe.
To my very dearest SieSie,:blowkiss:
I did not see the entire video, for some reason the video player was not working well and I gave up when the thing stopped when a nurse was performing CPR. It appeared to me that the Sheriff was using the tazor on Mr. Williams stomach while he was on his back on the floor. I could be wrong because the video was skipping, stopping and then not playing for me. It appeared that the tazer was being used constant. You are supposed to wait before giving bursts because the tazer does that on its own. Williams was on his back with multiple Officers on and around him. Due to the fact that he was delusional prior to 911 being called, there was no way, in my opinion that Mr. Williams was aware of his surroundings, much less respond to commands being ordered to him. The mindset that he was in at home due to the seizure and lack of medication, proves that the commands to him were foreign to him. He was seeing devils, and he thought that his own loving wife was part of the devil's work to besige him. So I can only imagine what he thought when he saw the Officers at his home and in the facility.


All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

[Wudge]

This is what happened that day;


The date is May 25, 2004. The Williams family is at home watching the “Oprah” show. Mr. Williams begins to have an epilepsy seizure. “The type of seizure that he had experienced would either make him fall, jerk, weak or delusional. This particular day, he became delusional,” explained Mr. Johnson. “He started talking about devils taking his money, planning to kill him and destroy his family. In his delusional state, Mr. Williams began to implicate his wife in the plot. He became angry with her and chased her around the house. Scared and confused, Mrs. Williams runs out of the house with their children, ages 1-9.”
Mr. Williams stands in the front yard and continues his delusional state. His 9-year-old son calls 911 and explains that his father is sick and did not take his medicine. The son pleads with 911 to send a “the truck with the medicine.” Mrs. Williams then calls 911 and reiterates her husband’s medical condition.
Moments later, the first officer arrives. Mrs. Williams and a deacon from her church explain that Mr. Williams needs his medication.
The officer begins to shout at Mr. Williams to quiet down and get back in the house. The officer then strikes Mr. Williams two or three times. A scuffle ensues and the officer receives an abrasion to his nose. The officer pulls his gun and calls for backup, radioing “officer down.”
Fifteen to 20 police cars come from the City of Lawrenceville and the Sheriff’s Department of Gwinnett County. An ambulance arrives and treats the injured police officer, not Mr. Williams who is seen being carried off to jail.

This is the link from 2005;
link (http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/printer_2077.shtml)


Williams had been arrested on domestic violence charges (http://expertise.blogdrive.com/archive/399.html)

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

When you are trained in the use of a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

[Love_Mama]

wait? so he was arrested for having an epileptic seizure? What on earth? There must be more - do we have any additional details?

Those officers are a disgrace.

gooniequeen, I believe everyone knows that the man was in the South.......GA, and he was black. The ONLY reason.
I hope these cops rot in hell!

xxxxxxxxxxxoooooo
mama
xxxxoooo
mama:blowkiss: :blowkiss:

[MeoW333]

I have a friend who has Grand Mal seizures and she has no memory of the incidents during the seizure and can get very aggitated. Thank god she doesn't have them that often.
As for these officers here, they make it look bad for those officers out there who are actually good people. I have a friend who has been an officer (and sgt before retiring then returning to work) for over 20 years, and she is one of the most caring, respectful people. These bumbling fools that are so quick to tazer or shoot people, make the really good LE look bad. We need to hear more stories of the good things involving LE so there's more of a balance. It's so often the bad things come out (which they need to) yet everyone has to keep in mind, there are those who went for the badge because they are sincere and truly want to help people.
This case in GA should never have happened. LE needs to be trained how to deal with these situations so hopefully they can act accordingly and not in a violent manner.

[Wudge]

I have a friend who has Grand Mal seizures and she has no memory of the incidents during the seizure and can get very aggitated. Thank god she doesn't have them that often.
As for these officers here, they make it look bad for those officers out there who are actually good people. I have a friend who has been an officer (and sgt before retiring then returning to work) for over 20 years, and she is one of the most caring, respectful people. These bumbling fools that are so quick to tazer or shoot people, make the really good LE look bad. We need to hear more stories of the good things involving LE so there's more of a balance. It's so often the bad things come out (which they need to) yet everyone has to keep in mind, there are those who went for the badge because they are sincere and truly want to help people.
This case in GA should never have happened. LE needs to be trained how to deal with these situations so hopefully they can act accordingly and not in a violent manner.

They are trained. This was no a boat propellor. It was a shark attack.

LE wanted revenge for what they perceived to be a guy who resisted arrest. So they ganged up and decided to torture him. That's standard stuff.

The D.A. should have prosecuted all of the officers involved. Anyone can see that.

Given that did not happen, the Feds should have moved into this case on civil rights violations.

This case really stinks in every way possible.

[MeoW333]

Some departments are really not trained in handling certain situations, though. Many are just starting now in learning how to handle mentally ill individuals. Handling epileptics- well i'm not sure if there is even training in those situations.
I do agree with you that it was a shark attack as they perceived he had hit one of their own. (it was the nephew that did).
Hopefully the family will win a civil suit if the officers involved don't go to trial for this.

[JBean]

I have a friend who has Grand Mal seizures and she has no memory of the incidents during the seizure and can get very aggitated. Thank god she doesn't have them that often.
As for these officers here, they make it look bad for those officers out there who are actually good people. I have a friend who has been an officer (and sgt before retiring then returning to work) for over 20 years, and she is one of the most caring, respectful people. These bumbling fools that are so quick to tazer or shoot people, make the really good LE look bad. We need to hear more stories of the good things involving LE so there's more of a balance. It's so often the bad things come out (which they need to) yet everyone has to keep in mind, there are those who went for the badge because they are sincere and truly want to help people.
This case in GA should never have happened. LE needs to be trained how to deal with these situations so hopefully they can act accordingly and not in a violent manner.Like every profession there are good cops and bad cops. The problem is your life may depend on who shows up to your call. That is wrong. We should be able to count on protection from LE.
Personally, I am leery of our cops. Most of local LE treat the kids like crap. That increases my fear for my son. He is 20,he is epileptic and he gets agitated. Not a good combo and could cost him his life. I don't think I should have to have that worry.
This poor guy should have gotten a shot of atavan and put to bed.

[JBean]

They are trained. This was no a boat propellor. It was a shark attack.

LE wanted revenge for what they perceived to be a guy who resisted arrest. So they ganged up and decided to torture him. That's standard stuff.

The D.A. should have prosecuted all of the officers involved. Anyone can see that.

Given that did not happen, the Feds should have moved into this case on civil rights violations.

This case really stinks in every way possible.
I agree 100% across the board.

[oceanblueeyes]

They are trained. This was no a boat propellor. It was a shark attack.

LE wanted revenge for what they perceived to be a guy who resisted arrest. So they ganged up and decided to torture him. That's standard stuff.

The D.A. should have prosecuted all of the officers involved. Anyone can see that.

Given that did not happen, the Feds should have moved into this case on civil rights violations.

This case really stinks in every way possible.

I couldnt agree more. If they can demand justice in Florida for the juvenile that was mistreated by the drill sargents and the nurse who stood by watching it and did nothing for over 20 minutes then this man's family needs to keep up the pressure with media exposure about this case. If he were in my family I would be contacting every national and local news media to bring it to the attention of the public as well as contacting my government representatives.

This case along with the tape should go to a Grand Jury and let the GJ decide what they think their community should do about the way this man was treated.

If not it sends a message that police officers can do as they please without any accountability when their actions were very wrong.

imoo

[dark_shadows]

To my dearest Wudge,:blowkiss:
I just reread the posts on here and saw that I did not thank-you for starting this thread. I thought that I did. Please accept my belated thank-you.

I cannot even imagine the horror that Mr. Williams felt when he was at home and then going through what he did at the facility. His last words are very haunting. An article stated that he lived for 2 days after the incident.

I am learning alot from your thread here.

This is an article I found when I was researching information on your thread;
Autistic Teen Tasered in Calif. 9/20/07 (http://www.comcast.net/news/national/index.jsp?cat=DOMESTIC&fn=/2007/09/20/768908.html&cookieattempt=1)

TUSTIN, Calif. - Sheriff's officials defended their use of a Taser stun gun to subdue an autistic teenager who left a social services center where he was being treated. "It was necessary," sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino said in defense of the use of a Taser stun gun to subdue 15-year-old Taylor Karras.

Here is another about a diabetic man being tasered in Texas 6/20/07;
Texas cops taser diabetic seizure man (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/20/diabteic_tasering/)

A Texas man who called 911 to request medical assistance for a diabetic seizure earned a tasering from local cops for his trouble, the Waxahachie Daily Light reports.
Allen Nelms, 52, was suffering said seizure "during the early morning hours of April 28 when his girlfriend, Josie Edwards, called 911 to request paramedics".
A police officer duly turned up at the house on Waxahachie's east side, "inquired as to what was going on", then called for back-up. Shortly after, and as Nelms was "in his bed in the couple's bedroom", cops "burst in with their guns drawn and yelling at him to get on the floor".



All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

[Shazza]

Wow I am totally gobsmacked, even when that man was begging for his life, they kept on tasing him, they didnt give him a chance, luckily we do not have taser here in Australia, and I am sorry to say this, but our police officers do not seem as brutal, why didnt the police let the paramedics do there job, the family called the ambulance because of his epileptic fit, the police turned up first and imo started to brutally assault this man because he was confused and suffering an illness that needed medical attention that he did not receive, I feel so sorry for this family who lost their husband and father. This is injust and needs to be investigated and charges laid for murder against the offending officers.

[CaliKid]

I want to state up front that I'm not making excuses for the LE in this case.

But I think young police officers are being trained to recognize that increasing drug use and the rise of mental illness are, more and more frequently, turning criminals into walking time bombs who may react violently when confronted with arrest. They just never know when they are responding to a call what they'll be confronting.

That said, listening to a man begging for his life makes it sound as if they were on some kind of crowd-mentality-fueled power trip. This is brutality.

[dkitty]

Wow I am totally gobsmacked, even when that man was begging for his life, they kept on tasing him, they didnt give him a chance, luckily we do not have taser here in Australia, and I am sorry to say this, but our police officers do not seem as brutal, why didnt the police let the paramedics do there job, the family called the ambulance because of his epileptic fit, the police turned up first and imo started to brutally assault this man because he was confused and suffering an illness that needed medical attention that he did not receive, I feel so sorry for this family who lost their husband and father. This is injust and needs to be investigated and charges laid for murder against the offending officers.

Very nice pics..

[Shazza]

Very nice pics..
:confused: :confused: :confused:

[dark_shadows]

:confused: :confused: :confused:
To my very dearest Shazza,:blowkiss:
I thought the same thing as you, until I realized that the poster was commenting on the photos you have on your signature.


All of my Love and Respect to you,
dark_shadows

[browneyes]

I have a friend who has Grand Mal seizures and she has no memory of the incidents during the seizure and can get very aggitated. Thank god she doesn't have them that often.
As for these officers here, they make it look bad for those officers out there who are actually good people. I have a friend who has been an officer (and sgt before retiring then returning to work) for over 20 years, and she is one of the most caring, respectful people. These bumbling fools that are so quick to tazer or shoot people, make the really good LE look bad. We need to hear more stories of the good things involving LE so there's more of a balance. It's so often the bad things come out (which they need to) yet everyone has to keep in mind, there are those who went for the badge because they are sincere and truly want to help people.
This case in GA should never have happened. LE needs to be trained how to deal with these situations so hopefully they can act accordingly and not in a violent manner.

Thanks for your post regarding your friend........


My son is in LE and I just hate it when all LE is lumped together. Just like in any profession, there are good ones and bad ones. :hand:

All of these officers should be fired and charged. :slap:

[wildTrose]

After reading all of this..my opinion is any time ther is a medicl issue with a person..where an ambulance has been called as was the case in Mr.Williams....I firmly believe before the officers can do anythng an ambulance should be onhand for things like this....they can say..ok its a seizure...in 20 more minutes he will be asleep or whatever...not jump the man and ask about his condidiotn later....if the paramedics are in true danger in a situation then it would be different but they also could possibly subdue a person and have the paramedic give them an injection to subdue them not taser them so many times they die
its early I hope I made since lol

[kgeaux]

Hi Wudge, hope you are well.
I was afraid you were going to say that he was an epileptic. My son wears a necklace to identified as such, but who knows how well our LE is trained to handle this? I think they will taser first ask questions later.
This is positively frightening.


They aren't trained at all, I don't think. They WILL tase first and ask questions later. They do it all the time, in district after district.

I personally believe that tasers will be outlawed within the next decade, but maybe my glasses are just a little too rosy.

[Wudge]

They aren't trained at all, I don't think. They WILL tase first and ask questions later. They do it all the time, in district after district.

I personally believe that tasers will be outlawed within the next decade, but maybe my glasses are just a little too rosy.


They are trained. They just did not care. They wanted to brutalize him. The video makes that truth super clear. Malice was certainly there and intended. They should all be tried for murder.

[JBean]

They are trained. They just did not care. They wanted to brutalize him. The video makes that truth super clear. Malice was certainly there and intended. They should all be tried for murder.
IMO, this can be traced back to the original officer that showed up at the scene. he set the stage for the brutality and attitudes of the subsequent officers the poor guy came into contact with.
I have seen what our local police call "resisting arrest" and any PD or def atty will agree with me that it is often pretty lame. My gf's 120 pound 5-4" son got a pretty good beating when he was taken into custody for 'resisting arrest". He argued with the officers about what they were charging him with and so the resisting arrest label was slapped on him and he got a good whoopin' in the jail by the intake officers.
He had pulled into a parking place and clipped a parked car. he went into the store in front of the parking place and asked for a pen and paper to leave a note. He immediately walked back out to write and leave the note. 2 officers watched him clip the car and walk into the shop, so they were citing him for misdemeanor hit and run! the shop owner came out an corroborated his story that he had just walked in and asked for pen and paper to leave a note.
He was upset at what they were charging him with and the rest is history. he was ultimately cleared of all charges EXCEPT resisting arrest.

Point is if he had been brought in on other charges the LE wouldn't have beat up on him. But once you show defiance to LE all bets are off. Poor judgement on the kids part but police brutality just the same IMO.
back to Mr. Williams, he never had a chnce once that original officer put out the "officer down" call and said he got smacked by Williams.
What a mess that officer created IMO.

[dkitty]

:confused: :confused: :confused:

Sorry for the confussion..:(

[CaliKid]

Does anyone still watch police shows like Cops? My kids have it on every once in awhile, and sometimes I'm amazed how you can't even ask a question without being knocked around. While I know on tv everyone appears guilty, it's like we have totally lost our rights to legitimately question what appears to be an arbitrary arrest. If I was someone with a temper or an emotional problem, I might go off too.

Sorry for the confussion..:(

Yes, totally OT, but Shazza does have a nice family. Love ya, Shaz!

[Wudge]

IMO, this can be traced back to the original officer that showed up at the scene. he set the stage for the brutality and attitudes of the subsequent officers the poor guy came into contact with.
I have seen what our local police call "resisting arrest" and any PD or def atty will agree with me that it is often pretty lame. My gf's 120 pound 5-4" son got a pretty good beating when he was taken into custody for 'resisting arrest". He argued with the officers about what they were charging him with and so the resisting arrest label was slapped on him and he got a good whoopin' in the jail by the intake officers.
He had pulled into a parking place and clipped a parked car. he went into the store in front of the parking place and asked for a pen and paper to leave a note. He immediately walked back out to write and leave the note. 2 officers watched him clip the car and walk into the shop, so they were citing him for misdemeanor hit and run! the shop owner came out an corroborated his story that he had just walked in and asked for pen and paper to leave a note.
He was upset at what they were charging him with and the rest is history. he was ultimately cleared of all charges EXCEPT resisting arrest.

Point is if he had been brought in on other charges the LE wouldn't have beat up on him. But once you show defiance to LE all bets are off. Poor judgement on the kids part but police brutality just the same IMO.
back to Mr. Williams, he never had a chnce once that original officer put out the "officer down" call and said he got smacked by Williams.
What a mess that officer created IMO.


JBean, it certainly started with him. But none of these people have any place in policing others. They won't even police themselves.

As I said elsewhere, this is just Nifonging in reverse. Few people in America truly have a guage on how much wrongdoing (knowingly) takes place via the hands of LE and DAs. It's just incredible.

[kgeaux]

They are trained. They just did not care. They wanted to brutalize him. The video makes that truth super clear. Malice was certainly there and intended. They should all be tried for murder.


Training may differ from district to district. I have a friend in LE in a local area, not Lafayette. All you need to get an entry level position in LE is a high school degree, nothing more. His extent of training when dealing with a "mental" call was to protect himself.....a sick person like we're reading about here, if these guys had any training at all, you are completely right: they did not care. I agree they should be prosecuted.

[JBean]

JBean, it certainly started with him. But none of these people have any place in policing others. They won't even police themselves.

As I said elsewhere, this is just Nifonging in reverse. Few people in America truly have a guage on how much wrongdoing (knowingly) takes place via the hands of LE and DAs. It's just incredible.
Agreed.

[JBean]

Official: Taser Did Not Cause Georgia Man's Death

ATLANTA — A shock from a deputy's Taser was not what killed a Norcross man who was stunned with the device in July, a Gwinnett County official said Monday.
Carlos Rodriguez Escamilla, 27, died of what authorities call "excited delirium," said Ted Bailey, investigator for the county medical examiner's office.
Bailey said Escamilla's condition was caused by "acute cocaine and ethanol use."
Chief medical examiner Dr. Carol Terry said excited delirium is "an overdose of adrenaline, where the body gets so revved up that ultimately the heart goes into an abnormal rhythm and stops."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300143,00.html

[kgeaux]

Official: Taser Did Not Cause Georgia Man's Death

ATLANTA — A shock from a deputy's Taser was not what killed a Norcross man who was stunned with the device in July, a Gwinnett County official said Monday.
Carlos Rodriguez Escamilla, 27, died of what authorities call "excited delirium," said Ted Bailey, investigator for the county medical examiner's office.
Bailey said Escamilla's condition was caused by "acute cocaine and ethanol use."
Chief medical examiner Dr. Carol Terry said excited delirium is "an overdose of adrenaline, where the body gets so revved up that ultimately the heart goes into an abnormal rhythm and stops."
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,300143,00.html

I don't think I've ever seen a single case where the taser was admitted to have caused the death.

[AfterMidnight]

I don't think I've ever seen a single case where the taser was admitted to have caused the death.

And you probably never will. Welcome to 1984 folks!

[Shazza]

Yes, totally OT, but Shazza does have a nice family. Love ya, Shaz![/quote]

Thanks Calikid.

Sorry for the confussion..:(

No worries mate.

Tasers in my opinion were wrongly used in this case, and apparently I quoted earlier that we didnt have them here in Australia, after asking some friends I found out I was wrong, I apologise if I was misleading, was not intended.
Mr Williams should have received medical attention before the police took him away, his wife and child surely would have told them he was having a seizure and that was why is behaviour was so erratic, after the paramedics had seen him Im sure he would have been taken to hospital and would still be alive today.

[dellemma]

Jelly I think I've told you this story before. I worked with a guy that had a seizure at work (he and I were the only ones at work that day). He was in his late 20's and his dad owned the store. I wished to goodness him or his dad had told me about his having seizures before that day becasue when it happened I had no clue what was going on. I was scared to death. My co-worker was standing near me and said "be right back" and walked out the back door. I heard a lod THUD sound and dropped everything and ran out the back door. He was laying at the top of a wooden staircase with his head about an inch from the edge and he was in a seizure. I ran back in and screamed for someone (customers) to call 911 that he was was having a seizure or something. I went back outside and like an idiot didn't know what to do so I just squatted down next to him and held his clenched hands and repeated you'll be ok, I'm here. A customer came out and asked me step aside and told me he was a doctor. Anyway, I called the owner and left a voicemail message asking if Matt (the co-worker and owners son) had any seizure conditions because he was having a seizure and we had called 911. The paramedics arrived shortly after the seizure and like Jelly has described Matt then became very upset, cursing and willing to fight them off him. Matt's sister arrived in just enough time to get the paramedics to back off and let him be for a few minutes. I feel bad for calling 911 and causing things to escalate but I really wished that he or his family would have warned me and told me what to do and what to expect. Now reading this, I am so thankful the police didn't come! What struck me was how the sister knew about the postictal (spelling?) reaction but the paramedics did not. They were circling him and trying to take him down! I think paramedics and police officers should all be told about this reaction. Seriously after waiting 20 or 30 minutes he was ok and calm. After the reaction was over he even got up on the paramedic stretcher himself and let them take him to the hospital for more tests. The next week he told me he felt the seizure coming on and didn't want to scare me or the customers so he went outside but it hit him quickly. I told him how he was so very close to the edge of a tall staircase and all I could think about was how he could have fallen down to the concrete below.

[browneyes]

It sounds to me that there needs to be more education regarding seizures and how the symptoms evolve.

Anyone who answers a 911 call (LE, Firemen, Paramedics) should definitely have special training.

It seems to me that once a person is handcuffed and possibly shackled they are not a threat to anyone.....so why the need to punish them after this point. I'm gonna talk to my son about this.....I'd like to hear what training (if any) he has with this. I would sure hate to think he would harm someone in this vulnerable position.

[BrowneyedEmily]

I'm very angry after seeing that video and several others over the past few weeks. Isn't it time we took back our rights? LE is no longer our friend.

I agree with you. It's a sad world right now. To be scared of LE is just...terrifying. It's a feeling of terror accompanied by a feeling of hopelessness. I've felt it for some time now - below is an entry I wrote in a personal journal - don't read it if you don't want to, but things here in Raleigh, NC are just as bad as elsewhere, and I'm frustrated to the point of anger.

I don't really like getting on a soapbox, but there are a few select issues I can't take anymore. I get a slight build-up of anger when hearing certain stories, and if I don't do anything about it, it's not helping anything.

I used to drive 10 miles per hour over the speed limit, mostly because I'm impatient. I've never been in a wreck and I've never gotten a ticket. Now I drive THE speed limit. And that's because I'm scared of what could happen if I got pulled - or more, I'm afraid of who is pulling me over.

First you have 28-year-old Michael Steele, who resigned last month after a woman made allegations of inappropriate behavior during a traffic stop. A Hispanic couple on their way home from a medical procedure was stopped by Steele, who told the husband he would face immigration violations if he didn't drive away alone.

Steele then (allegedly) forced the woman to get into his patrol car where he drove to a secluded area and forced her to kiss him. He then told her to give him her number or he would kill her husband and two daughters, and made arrangements to have sex with her.

Steels is off the force, but I assure you, he's not the only one to pull this.

Then you have the maniacs with the stun guns. I don't mind them having stun guns - I'm thinking of owning one myself - but their excessive use of them is terrifying.

Today the News & Observer reported that police went to an Elon man's home to arrest him on misdemeanor traffic charges - reckless driving. They sent half the force (which isn't many, but still significant), and within one minute of the man exiting his home he's tasered - twice. The newspaper has a video on their website from the patrol car that's quite disturbing, at least to me.

This isn't just happening here. Ask 26-year-old Eric Kush. He had a warrant out for his arrest for failing to appear in Tempe Municipal court on traffic citations. Apparently the cops felt that he had "cop-killer bullets" and "bad guns," and serving this warrant justified a SWAT team.

In the end, after a raid, his house was on fire, his 10-month-old pit bull puppy was dead, his neighbors were terrified, and one of his neighbor's cars was smashed by an armored car that had ****ty brakes.

And the cop-killer bullets and bad guns? Non-existent. Kush owned an antique shotgun and a 9 mm pistol - both legal. But thank god this guy is off the streets, right?

Law enforcement is beginning to abuse its authority, and what's being done? No one should fear the people who are supposed to protect them, but who has a choice at this point? No more speeding, no more switching lanes without a turn signal, no more driving in cloudy weather without my lights on, and no more loud music. Not until I can feel safe in the present of law enforcement.

For more information about the Elon case, go here: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/story/724987.html.

For more information about Eric Kush's case, go here:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2004-08-05/news/dog-day-afternoon/full

[BrowneyedEmily]

It sounds to me that there needs to be more education regarding seizures and how the symptoms evolve.

Anyone who answers a 911 call (LE, Firemen, Paramedics) should definitely have special training.

It seems to me that once a person is handcuffed and possibly shackled they are not a threat to anyone.....so why the need to punish them after this point. I'm gonna talk to my son about this.....I'd like to hear what training (if any) he has with this. I would sure hate to think he would harm someone in this vulnerable position.

I agree completely. One shock seems to be enough to distract/disable a suspect long enough to gain control - why the need for three, five, six shocks per suspect within a short amount of time? It's becoming a rampant abuse of power, and something has to be done to keep it in check. But who/what can keep LE in check?

[JBean]

Jelly I think I've told you this story before. I worked with a guy that had a seizure at work (he and I were the only ones at work that day). He was in his late 20's and his dad owned the store. I wished to goodness him or his dad had told me about his having seizures before that day becasue when it happened I had no clue what was going on. I was scared to death. My co-worker was standing near me and said "be right back" and walked out the back door. I heard a lod THUD sound and dropped everything and ran out the back door. He was laying at the top of a wooden staircase with his head about an inch from the edge and he was in a seizure. I ran back in and screamed for someone (customers) to call 911 that he was was having a seizure or something. I went back outside and like an idiot didn't know what to do so I just squatted down next to him and held his clenched hands and repeated you'll be ok, I'm here. A customer came out and asked me step aside and told me he was a doctor. Anyway, I called the owner and left a voicemail message asking if Matt (the co-worker and owners son) had any seizure conditions because he was having a seizure and we had called 911. The paramedics arrived shortly after the seizure and like Jelly has described Matt then became very upset, cursing and willing to fight them off him. Matt's sister arrived in just enough time to get the paramedics to back off and let him be for a few minutes. I feel bad for calling 911 and causing things to escalate but I really wished that he or his family would have warned me and told me what to do and what to expect. Now reading this, I am so thankful the police didn't come! What struck me was how the sister knew about the postictal (spelling?) reaction but the paramedics did not. They were circling him and trying to take him down! I think paramedics and police officers should all be told about this reaction. Seriously after waiting 20 or 30 minutes he was ok and calm. After the reaction was over he even got up on the paramedic stretcher himself and let them take him to the hospital for more tests. The next week he told me he felt the seizure coming on and didn't want to scare me or the customers so he went outside but it hit him quickly. I told him how he was so very close to the edge of a tall staircase and all I could think about was how he could have fallen down to the concrete below.HI dellemma. Yes, you have told me that story and his behavior was not uncommon .Often epileptics are belligerent and argumentative in their postictal phase. Funny thing is my son has never even witnessed this behavior of his own because he has zero recollection. He doesn't even understand completely how bad he can be.
Personally I think this cop knew what was happening with the guy in this story.. I think the whole thing stinks to high heaven!