Theories on Kelly's COD

[SeriouslySearching]

I thought we should have a thread on possible theories of Kelly's Cause Of Death separate from the discussion thread. We can now spread this case out in detail. :clap:

[gooniequeen]

I believe that Kelly was suffocated by an intruder who came in via the window.

[Indiana at Heart]

I believe Kelly was killed the same as Erin! I know there is a chance of an unkown heart Cond. But I do think James got to her too!!!

[Indy Gal]

I dont believe she was murdered!

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't know what to believe at this point. One could assume by things the police and others have alluded to...she was murdered. However, they seem to be uncertain of this. If her trachea was crushed like Erin's...her COD would be very clear and there would have been no need for additional tox screening.

[Busylady]

I don't believe she was murdered. I think autopsy would of already been released showing COD if that was the case.

[miss_vegemite]

I believe that Kelly was murdered in the same fashion as Erin, also by James..

[Al_B]

I think sadly that she was murdered. I think someone told James about her helping the police and he wanted to know what she had told them and she wouldn't tell him

[deb2007]

I believe that Kelly was suffocated by James because she knew too much and was helping the police.

[laura2007]

I had always felt that her death was from smothering, and I still do. But since they're doing added toxicology tests, I have to wonder if she was poisoned or OD'd on a non-typical drug.

[mahmoo]

I think Kelly was murdered. If she had died from a natural cause I think LE would have released that information already to calm the public and squash rumors.

I believe James stuffed something in her mouth (maybe a small stuffed animal) so she couldn't scream for help, then put a pillow over her face and smothered her.

Wondering about something else too.........James didn't have transportation of his own.........is there someone out there that knows they dropped James off at, or in the vicinity of, the Stanley home the night Kelly died.

[DawnTCB]

I sent an email to the Smoking Gun, asking them if they could obtain and post a copy of the search warrant. They sent back a polite but non-committal reply:

thanks for your note (and the suggestion).

regards,

bill bastone
editor
tsg

so... maybe???

[greeneyz]

I think her death would be too coincidental to have been something medical, I think they know that she was murdered but are for whatever reason waiting for some kind of test results to prove it to ensure any additional charges against James (or who-ever) will stick. I think he may have snuck in that window and hid waiting for her to come home from work. Maybe he was trying to take the baby? I wish we knew where the baby was etc.!!!

[imnotheonlyone]

I sent an email to the Smoking Gun, asking them if they could obtain and post a copy of the search warrant. They sent back a polite but non-committal reply:



so... maybe???

Let's ALL send requests :D

[cheko1]

I think LE is with holding info on Kelly's death because they have James in custody & he's not going anyplace. LE is being cautious in keeping all info to themselves the same as they did Erin.

From Kelly's myspace page & her friends posted on it. It sounds like Kelly never liked James. James would want to know why, what had he done that was so wrong for Kelly to hate him. I think she told James she was helping LE to pin Erin's murder on him. He either strangled her or smothered her.

He felt if he got away with one murder he could surely get away with 2.

[SeriouslySearching]

And there is my mother's idea: She said James killed Erin, but that Kelly was trying to recreate the scene and it went wrong.

[mysteriew]

I believe that Kelly was smothered, by hand and/or pillow. When a person is strangled there is a chance the hyoid bone will break and there will usually be bruising. But with smothering with a plastic bag, a hand or a pillow the chances of bruising are lessened. There may or may not be fibers in the mouth or throat depending on whether she was ever able to breathe.
Asphyxiation is one of the hardest causes of death to prove. I think when the coroner asked for pictures of the bedroom he was looking for items that may have used to smother her.
However, I too am puzzled by the toxicology test. Unless it was actually testing for body chemicals that show up after an asphyxiation. I think there are ph changes etc. that will show after an anoxic episode. A heart condition would have shown up in the autopsy as it would have caused some damage to the heart, an aneurysm would have shown up as blood on the brain.


Edited to add: Anoxia is a lack of oxygen. This article shows some of the chemical changes a body goes through.

In control studies, pH and phosphocreatine fell and P[i] rose during anoxia and recovered within <10 min after reperfusion began. ...
snip...Lactate, measured by its methyl protons, rose during anoxia and did not fall after 1 h of reperfusion and could not have eliminated protons by cotransport.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16996110

[Littledeer]

IMO

Kelly is smaller in statue than her sister Erin, and it has been stated as fact that she was strangled. A suspect is in jail and from everything that we have available, no sound was heard in the house to alert anyone that something was going on.

I thought is was impossible for it to happen the first time with the facts we know now...........but Kelly was also a victim of a crime that was unheard by anyone in the house.

Those two facts lead me to believe that the perpetuator was of a larger size that was able to subdue both Erin and Kelly (and I beleive that they fought with what they could, but were unable to make a sound), so I believe that Kelly was smothered while she was sleeping. (no strangulation marks have been released yet from the Coroner's office). HECK...................where are the results from the Coroner's consultation with other Pathologists??? Why has nothing been said recently???

SOMETHING FISHY GOING ON HERE!!!

[imnotheonlyone]

IMO

Kelly is smaller in statue than her sister Erin, and it has been stated as fact that she was strangled. A suspect is in jail and from everything that we have available, no sound was heard in the house to alert anyone that something was going on.

I thought is was impossible for it to happen the first time with the facts we know now...........but Kelly was also a victim of a crime that was unheard by anyone in the house.

Those two facts lead me to believe that the perpetuator was of a larger size that was able to subdue both Erin and Kelly (and I beleive that they fought with what they could, but were unable to make a sound), so I believe that Kelly was smothered while she was sleeping. (no strangulation marks have been released yet from the Coroner's office). HECK...................where are the results from the Coroner's consultation with other Pathologists??? Why has nothing been said recently???

SOMETHING FISHY GOING ON HERE!!!

I can't believe that the media isn't keeping this story on the edge - even if they have nothing new - just reporting that - that STILL there is no word!!!!

[Wrinkles]

Yes... How coincidental is it for 2 healthy young teen women of 19 and 18 to die in the same home with one having a strangulation obvious and the 2nd with so much mystery surrounding her death which occurred only 6 days later.

I can sit and play with things, "Oh, maybe stress, maybe an SD heart condition" but when I see NO 911 recording (equipment just happened to fail that day and that hour), when mom couldn't get to her in her room (hmmm), when no COD yet (hmmm), when she was helping the police (hmmm), when she was hoping to raise her sister's baby (hmmm), when she was looking forward to starting college (hmmmm), when the window was removed (hmmm), when friends evidently heard her saying she knew who took her sister's life (hmmm), when original reports noted a similar fashion to death (but they were oddly "shushed," HMMMM), AND OH so much more...

Kelly's cause of death? Well, the Affidavit for Search warrant was looking for stuffed animals in the room and what else? Saliva on any of these?

Something is amiss, we all felt it immediately. Can Kelly's murder be proven? Was it a murder? Well, I think it is important to consider "possibilities." It would be more helpful to do this with an autopsy report and complete set of pictures of Kelly in the room when she was found (plus a review of all other facts!) But honestly? First logic, knowing little but that of healthy girls who were alive then DEAD suddenly under mysterious conditions? I must say Kelly was murdered. Can it be proven. Oh, I hope so, and I hope the murder can be traced to the perp.

I have a tendency to believe that Kelly's mouth was quieted by some means (perhaps the stuffed animals or a pillow, thus the search for saliva) and her life was taken.

I'm really angry about these two deaths and hope that LE can do their "good work" to bring these two girls and their parents and Alexis some justice.

W

[imnotheonlyone]

Yes... How coincidental is it for 2 healthy young teen women of 19 and 18 to die in the same home with one having a strangulation obvious and the 2nd with so much mystery surrounding her death which occurred only 6 days later.

I can sit and play with things, "Oh, maybe stress, maybe an SD heart condition" but when I see NO 911 recording (equipment just happened to fail that day and that hour), when mom couldn't get to her in her room (hmmm), when no COD yet (hmmm), when she was helping the police (hmmm), when she was hoping to raise her sister's baby (hmmm), when she was looking forward to starting college (hmmmm), when the window was removed (hmmm), when friends evidently heard her saying she knew who took her sister's life (hmmm), when original reports noted a similar fashion to death (but they were oddly "shushed," HMMMM), AND OH so much more...

Kelly's cause of death? Well, the Affidavit for Search warrant was looking for stuffed animals in the room and what else? Saliva on any of these?

Something is amiss, we all felt it immediately. Can Kelly's murder be proven? Was it a murder? Well, I think it is important to consider "possibilities." It would be more helpful to do this with an autopsy report and complete set of pictures of Kelly in the room when she was found (plus a review of all other facts!) But honestly? First logic, knowing little but that of healthy girls who were alive then DEAD suddenly under mysterious conditions? I must say Kelly was murdered. Can it be proven. Oh, I hope so, and I hope the murder can be traced to the perp.

I have a tendency to believe that Kelly's mouth was quieted by some means (perhaps the stuffed animals or a pillow, thus the search for saliva) and her life was taken.

I'm really angry about these two deaths and hope that LE can do their "good work" to bring these two girls and their parents and Alexis some justice.

W

PERFECTLY SAID - and I agree with you 100%

[gooniequeen]

I agree with you completely that they are resorting to toxicology to proove it was a suffocation at the hands of someone else.

I believe that Kelly was smothered, by hand and/or pillow. When a person is strangled there is a chance the hyoid bone will break and there will usually be bruising. But with smothering with a plastic bag, a hand or a pillow the chances of bruising are lessened. There may or may not be fibers in the mouth or throat depending on whether she was ever able to breathe.
Asphyxiation is one of the hardest causes of death to prove. I think when the coroner asked for pictures of the bedroom he was looking for items that may have used to smother her.
However, I too am puzzled by the toxicology test. Unless it was actually testing for body chemicals that show up after an asphyxiation. I think there are ph changes etc. that will show after an anoxic episode. A heart condition would have shown up in the autopsy as it would have caused some damage to the heart, an aneurysm would have shown up as blood on the brain.


Edited to add: Anoxia is a lack of oxygen. This article shows some of the chemical changes a body goes through.

In control studies, pH and phosphocreatine fell and P[i] rose during anoxia and recovered within <10 min after reperfusion began. ...
snip...Lactate, measured by its methyl protons, rose during anoxia and did not fall after 1 h of reperfusion and could not have eliminated protons by cotransport.
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16996110

[deb2007]

I think LE is with holding info on Kelly's death because they have James in custody & he's not going anyplace. LE is being cautious in keeping all info to themselves the same as they did Erin.

From Kelly's myspace page & her friends posted on it. It sounds like Kelly never liked James. James would want to know why, what had he done that was so wrong for Kelly to hate him. I think she told James she was helping LE to pin Erin's murder on him. He either strangled her or smothered her.

He felt if he got away with one murder he could surely get away with 2.

I agree with this completely! I have also heard from a local that Kelly never did like James. With that being said I never shared that information and you were able to come to that conclusion. Maybe Kelly could see through James and his games. Maybe the whole family could see that he wasn't any good. My question is this 'What Was Jame's Motive For Killing Erin' (if he did in fact murder Erin)? I believe that is the bigger picture. I have my owe ideas...just curious as to what everyone else thinks. Could he have been so mad at the family to take away the one thing that he knew would hurt them the most? And then stay around to watch them suffer? Was he trying to get back at them? If he had killed the baby it would have hurt Erin the most so why not murder the baby (the baby was young enough to have died from SDS)? Seems to me he wasn't upset with her...but he was very upset with the parents. Why did he even stay around? Most people that I know of would not stay around even if they were innocent when someone was found dead in the same bed that they shared... I mean who is going to look at the person that shared the bed with them and say "Oh, you know nothing about this?" I'm afraid that if that had happened in my household that he would have pinned against the wall and he would not be alive today (Were the parents so davasated that they couldn't even think?). Seems like he thought he got away with one murder why not try 2. James stated in the the interview with Pal-Item that he was questioned. I believe he thought that since he wasn't in jail that Centerville was so small that he could get away with murder. Okay, these are just some of my thoughts.

I also have a second opionion...what about drugs? Was a deal gone bad? Was Erin so upset with him about dealing with drugs that she was going to turn him in and he couldn't have that?

The one thing I do think of is that with all of the fighting going on someone either mom or dad had to agree that James could spend the night. And right now either mom or dad is living in h$$$ for his or her dicision.
You don't have to agree with me....these are just my thoughts.

Sorry, maybe this should not have been posted to this thread.

[mysteriew]

Domestic violence murders often have very little motive- at the time. Usually they are a accumulation of frustration and resentment (in his eyes, I'm not saying it was deserved.) Thus if she agreed with or took up for her father it could have led to the murder. Turning him down for s*x. She may have chosen that time to tell him that she wanted him to leave. It could have been any number of things.

Kelly however I think is pretty apparent, it was known that she was helping police and she told friends who she thought killed her sister- so it would have been known what she was telling police. He had already killed once and knew he was in trouble, he most likely didn't feel he had anything to lose by killing again.

However, if they prove he killed Kelly, he just shot any defense for killing Erin. (rough sex gone wrong is real popular these days when the COD is strangulation/asphixiation- not saying it is right, but it is used quite a bit to mitigate the penalites for strangulation deaths.)

[Busylady]

This is the great thing about this forum, everyone can share their opinions and thoughts even if they differ and it gives people different angles to look at things. I for one don't believe James did this, or if he did I think there is someone else involved. So many things just don't "fit" to me.

The arrest affidavit seems very vague to me and maybe thats the way they always are but the only thing in there that points to James is the statement he admitted he was in the same bed with her. To me thats not enough to convict him of murder. The calmness of the 911 tape and the lack of a recording of the second 911 tape really bothers me. If we base our thoughts on rumors, there are just as many rumors that say the girls had problems with their parents especially with their father, as there are that say James was not liked. There are rumors saying the baby was taken to a neighbor immediately after Erins death. as well as rumors that James stayed with the baby along with a newspaper interview that says the same. Which one do you believe? Why would James lie in an interview about such a minor thing when he could easily be proven that wasnt the case? Why would the parents allow him to stay with the baby? The police logs show they spent 30 minutes at the house before Erin was taken, and then another 22 minutes at the house at 11:13 after Erins death. I believe the 22 minutes at the house after Erins death was to speak to those present that morning and that would include James. If what the family has said is true that James awoke them at 4:50 to help with Erin why did it take 25 minutes to call 911? There was a fight the night before, Kelly stayed elsewhere because she didn't want to hear the arguing, but it truly makes no sense to me if Erin was angry with James that he would of been allowed to sleep in her bed, why not the couch, why not leave he had places to go and stay? It makes more sense to me that Erin defended James. Kelly was helping with the investigation, making it clear to friends that she thought James did this, yet the family or the police took no safety precautions? I don't know about you but if I thought I knew who killed my daughter was still out there, I would not let my other daughter who was talking openly about her thoughts who did this come and go, I would of changed the locks immediately, I would of been on high alert for any strange noises, I would of been checking on the other daughter and know her whereabouts at all times, none of that seems to have been done? People did not even know about Erins death until they read it in the paper the next day? Small town rumors apparently fly like crazy yet no one knew she had died? Body cremated no services planned? (I realize the finanical costs and that could of been a problem, but you would still think a service of some kind would be planned) Then a memorial is set up after the second daughter dies. Neighbors are asked by the Stanleys to not speak to the media, why? If my child was murdered I would be screaming from the roof tops trying to find out why.
Kelly is found dead, two other adults in the home at the time of death no one hears anything? It doesnt take 7 weeks to complete an autoposy and prove cause of death. Do they want so badily to tie this death to James they are digging and digging until they can try and come up with something? First they said strangulation then said no autopsy doesnt confirm that, gonna do more test people are guessing they are looking for suffocation, I can buy that but it doesnt take weeks and weeks to run those test. You can say she was suffocated if the autopsy findings prove that without proving what item caused the suffocation. So why not come out and say she was suffocated and the investigation is on going if thats the case. I honestly believe they have no clue how Kelly died and they are trying very hard to come up with something to rule it murder.

I guess I can't jump to the conclusion that James did this because, he was in the bed Erin died in, he didn't have a job, he wasnt active in his other childs life, he had been committed of a crime for selling something from his fathers estate, Erins parents didnt like him, and the grandparents want custody of their granddaughter. All these things point to a kid who had some problems but that doesnt make him a murderer.

Sorry this is so long, I just wanted to throw some of my thoughts out there.

[Littledeer]

BusyLady:

VERY GOOD THOUGHTS!! Some of which I have also thought of and have expressed in one way or another (not the best at that).

But I am a little confused. Are you saying that you think that James did NOT kill Erin and Kelly? Or that he killed Erin but not Kelly??

You brought up James and Erin in the second paragraph.............??

Yet this site is for Theories on Kelly's COD. So I am sorta confused.

The other sentences you said............most I also believe.

I still wonder if this has anything to do with any activity that James might have been involved in while he and Erin lived in Ghanna, Ohio. Again, I know I have brought this up before, but James has been noted to be a troubled person and sometimes they turn to drugs. I believe that drugs has been mentioned before where James is concerned.

JMO

[Busylady]

Littledeer Sorry for adding in Erin on the site for theories on Kelly's COD, sometimes its hard to keep the two separate. I am on the fence as far as James killing Erin, I am not convinced if he did do it that he acted alone. I kinda feel James was a convenient person to blame and I think there is much more going on than we think.

[Indy Gal]

Very well said Busy!!! And very good questions! I love what you said about the rumors. Sometimes people are too quick to believe what they hear, some pick and choose what is said to fit with what they think happened. Really if you just step back from all and look in there are several differeant possiblities here. I will ask my step dad wensday about the wording on that form we have. He is in LE, maybe he may have some insight.

[pooky169]

http://palitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071023/UPDATES/71023024

Here is a new link about Kelly Stanley it is very interesting!!1

[Indy Gal]

I dont believe she was murdered!
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1755990&postcount=285

[gooniequeen]

holy cow! I havent even read the whole article but I just wanted to chime that in.....

ok off to read.

[gooniequeen]

holy cow! I havent even read the whole article but I just wanted to chime that in.....

ok off to read.

what are the chances of that?!?! that is some really crazy $hit! Those poor parents - not that a natural death makes it any easier to bear.

OK, so NOW, why take the window? I also wonder what Kelly had in her medical history that lead to these seizures? It eludes to something in the article. Almost makes you wonder now about Erin....

[SeriouslySearching]

It doesn't ALMOST make me wonder!! It certainly DOES make me wonder and I am certain James' attorney will be ALL over this as a defense now...and rightfully so. Maybe there was NO murder in either case.

[Indy Gal]

Ding Ding Ding Ss!!!

[Indy Gal]

They took the window because they were thinking A murder had happened.

[SeriouslySearching]

Wonder who paid to have the window repaired?! LOL

[Indy Gal]

This should have been well seen in an autopsy, I would think. Why in the hell did it take them so long. Seems to me they, as most WANTED it to be james so bad, they tested and retested. ALL IS JMO

[Indy Gal]

Here is something I found

http://www.epilepsynse.org.uk/pages/info/leaflets/factsnea.cfm

Finding the cause

Sometimes it can be very hard to find the reason why non-epileptic seizures start. For some people their NES may happen shortly after a specific stressful event. For others their NES may not start after any particular life event. This can make finding the cause difficult.
Some NES only occur when a person feels stressed or anxious. For other people their NES may start to happen in situations which are not seen as stressful.

http://www.epilepsyhealth.com/stress-seizure.html

Stress can lead to drastic changes in the body, which can trigger seizures

[SeriouslySearching]

Seems Erin had quite a stressful day according to her mother's 911 call, too. Hmmm....

[greeneyz]

Seems Erin had quite a stressful day according to her mother's 911 call, too. Hmmm....

But I thought Erin had bruising and other trauma to her trachea that indicated she had been strangled?

[SeriouslySearching]

Who is to say that wasn't either caused by her flailing around due to a seizure or the EMT's didn't cause it inadvertantly while trying to resuscitate her?

This case included bruising etc. (who can say for certain the trachea wasn't collapsed due to either the act of a seizure or the medical personnel trying to revive Erin): www.vwc.state.va.us/listdecisions_all/REV2002/2077300.rev.doc VIRGINIA (http://www.vwc.state.va.us/listdecisions_all/REV2002/2077300.rev.doc)

[Indiana at Heart]

Thats what I thought too!!!

But I thought Erin had bruising and other trauma to her trachea that indicated she had been strangled?

[gooniequeen]

wow SS i am really curious now about how this case will proceed too! Any good attorney will be all over this!! I know Erin's autopsy showed bruising - but i do not recall was their a broken hyoid? Also this would give an explanation of James (and everyone else in the house) sleeping through a murder!

Now you have to wonder what other evidence they have on James other than he was "there" If not they are in big trouble in my opinion.

[SeriouslySearching]

wow SS i am really curious now about how this case will proceed too! Any good attorney will be all over this!! I know Erin's autopsy showed bruising - but i do not recall was their a broken hyoid? Also this would give an explanation of James (and everyone else in the house) sleeping through a murder!

Now you have to wonder what other evidence they have on James other than he was "there" If not they are in big trouble in my opinion.I do not think anything was ever mentioned about the Hyoid, but they did say her trachea was crushed.

[Indy Gal]

I do not think anything was ever mentioned about the Hyoid, but they did say her trachea was crushed.
I thought they said the trac was bruised??

[gooniequeen]

I do not think anything was ever mentioned about the Hyoid, but they did say her trachea was crushed.

I wonder if a violent grand mal could cause this? Not likely, but I'm learning nothing is likely in this case.

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes...if she were having a seizure and fell...Why not?!. It could be possible she was up before James and fell against the crib then made her way back onto the bed where she went into a full blown seizure.

[Hoosier Buckeye]

Did anyone watch Greta Friday night? Dr. Baden commented about the COD for Kelly. I cannot remember exactly what he said, but he was skeptical of the COD. I want to watch it again tonight. I set it to record at a later time that night because I wanted to hear it again, and knew that my daughter would want to as well. It seems that he alluded to the possibility of the COD of seizure being to protect LE. He mentioned the fact that Kelly was assisting with the investigation and that she was unprotected while James was on the loose. Wish I had paid more attention. I'll check it out tonight.

[Indy Gal]

Why will no one believe the COD? I mean to each his own but IMO this case of Kelly's death is done, not murder. Again only my opinion and that of her death cert.

[finally]

wow, didn't see Greta, but if it is being written off quickly and amicably to avoid a lawsuit, it just makes this case even more interesting now doesn't it? can't wait for indy gal to go to this trial for us!

[SeriouslySearching]

I watched Dr. Baden on Greta and while it didn't surprise me at all about what he said, I doubt if they do an idependent review of her body and COD.

[HAWG]

There is artical in PI today saying that the autopsy report is still not finished and they were supposed to have done in 14 days. He said he has been busy and that there is not any info in the report that we dont know about already. I would still like to see it wouldnt you guys??? :confused:

[pooky169]

I know I am tired of waiting for more news on this and Erins case. It needs to be done and over with so the Stanleys can have closure and Alexis can be placed with the Stanleys permanently and they can start to rebuild their lives.

[SeekingJana]

Psychogenic Non-Epileptic Seizures (PNE Seizures) are classified as a psychological disorder. Sometimes, there are genuine mild physical symptoms in the somatoform type of PNE Seizures, but I can't find any literature anywhere stating that true seizure activity with loss of consciousness occurs with a PNE Seizures.
Therefore, this cannot be her true and actual COD, can it?

Where is Kelly's autopsy report, please?? I found one outdated link that may have contained some info, but it was from the local newspaper and is no longer available online.

This is the best explanation of a PNE seizure I can provide in layperson's terms.

By definition, PNE Seizure is a psychiatric disorder. According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM) classification, physical symptoms caused by psychological causes can fall under 3 categories: somatoform disorder, factitious disorder, and malingering.

A somatoform disorder is the unconscious production of mild physical symptoms due to psychological factors.
The symptoms are not under voluntary control, ie, the patient is not faking and not intentionally trying to deceive.
Somatoform disorders are subdivided into several disorders depending on the characteristics of the physical symptoms and their time course.
The 2 somatoform disorders relevant to PNE seizures are conversion disorder and somatization disorder.
The vast majority of patients with PNE seizures have conversion disorder.

Factitious disorder and malingering imply that the patient is purposely deceiving the physician, ie, faking the symptoms.
The difference between factitious disorder and malingering is that, in malingering, the reason for the deception is tangible and rationally understandable (albeit possibly reprehensible). In factitious disorder, the motivation is a pathologic need for the sick role.
An important corollary is that malingering is not considered a mental illness, whereas factitious disorder is.
A generally accepted view is that most patients with PNE seizures have somatoform disorder rather than malingering or factitious disorder.
Although the DSM classification is simple in theory, knowing whether a given patient is faking it is nearly impossible. In some circumstances, intentional faking can be diagnosed only by catching a person in the act of faking (eg, self-inflicting injuries, ingesting medications or eye drops to cause signs, putting blood in the urine to simulate hematuria).
Malingering may be underdiagnosed.I do not mean to be the fly in the ointment, but this autopsy finding, if this is all it states, is absolutely off the wall weird. I don't think a person CAN die from a Psychogenic Non- Epileptic Seizure.

A child does a variation of a PNE Seizure when he holds his breath on purpose. At the instant when hypoxia is sensed ( low oxygen level from breath holding) , the vagal response takes over. The respiratory center in the brain is stimulated to resume normal breathing, despite the child's best efforts to hold his breath longer.
The child is not in danger of dying.

[SewingDeb]

Seeking,

That is a strange cause of death. Thanks for the information...it does seem that the disorder could not be the cause of death.

[CvilleMom]

It seems that James is seeking bail, This article appeared in Saturday, 2/2 Palladium Item.........

Palladium-Item - www.pal-item.com - Richmond, Indiana (http://palitem.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080202/NEWS01/802020302)

[Taximom]

I haven't heard anything or seen any news since the middle of January on his trial thread. And that wasn't much.

I wonder if they still think they have a case?

Thanks for the info, CvilleMom. I hope all is well with you.