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Dr. Doogie
11-16-2007, 04:55 PM
Please continue the discussion here.

Dr. Doogie
11-16-2007, 05:11 PM
When Annasmom posts the full reports, it will be explained fully, but they contain two surprises for me:

1) The analysis reinforces what most of us believe about the two Georges. Brody was a master manipulator with an extraordinary ability to convince someone to participate in activities that they would otherwise not want to be involved with. Also, Waters had a fundamental need for approval that made him highly susceptable to manipulation. The combination of these two personalities equates to gasoline and fire.

2) The analysis points toward a capacity for criminal activity that is far beyond what we had previously thought. The general consensus among those who investigated the two Georges was that they may have been weird enough to have abducted Anna, but they would have had to have convinced themselves that they were doing "good" in the process. If I am reading the new analysis correctly, they seem to have a higher capacity for evil than previously thought. They would certainly have been able to be involved from a personality standpoint.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
11-16-2007, 07:48 PM
Oh dear, I'm speechless. Well, not really. If what you're saying is what I think you're saying, then the "I'm glad the Tot is dead" statement has a lot of significance. My only problem with this scenario is Waters rush to stop child support. In following up with this master plan, wouldn't he/they think that would raise a few red flags? I'm very interested in reading the report.

MagicRose99
11-16-2007, 09:21 PM
Oh dear, I'm speechless. Well, not really. If your saying what I think your saying, then the "I'm glad the Tot is dead" has a lot of significance. My only problem with this scenario is Waters rush to stop child support. In following up with this master plan, wouldn't he/they think that would raise a few red flags? I'm very interested in reading the report.

Not really... Not to me. He wanted to quit paying support all along... it's not surprising that's the first thing he wanted to do after Anna disappeared.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
11-16-2007, 09:55 PM
Not really... Not to me. He wanted to quit paying support all along... it's not surprising that's the first thing he wanted to do after Anna disappeared.

But if HE had something to do with her disappearance (as in death), why would he draw the attention to himself? Even if he always wanted to abandon payments, wouldn't you think he'd hang low for 4 or 5 months to bring it up? :waitasec:

They covered their tracks VERY WELL, this one slip up (motive) could have brought him/them down very quickly, if LE would have thoroughly investigated him/them.

MagicRose99
11-17-2007, 09:22 AM
But if HE had something to do with her disappearance (as in death), why would he draw the attention to himself? Even if he always wanted to abandon payments, wouldn't you think he'd hang low for 4 or 5 months to bring it up? :waitasec:

They covered their tracks VERY WELL, this one slip up (motive) could have brought him/them down very quickly, if LE would have thoroughly investigated him/them.

I don't think that would have mattered to him... it's staying true to character. How would it draw attention to himself when he's been so adamant about not paying support all along?

Annasmom
11-17-2007, 02:45 PM
I am posting parts of Peggy Walla's analysis of a sample of George Brody's handwriting. Peggy is a certified handwriting analyst, a licensed private investigator certified forensic document examiner and director of Forensic Science at www.CHAIworldwide.org. She has given permission to post this, but suggested posting only parts which I can personally validate, since the report is seven pages long, single-spaced. Peggy has contributed this valuable and fascinating information at no charge.

Handwriting suggest weak boundaries between conscious thought processes and unconscious drives and urges. The writer lacks integration and is incongruent in emotional or ideational processes. Letters indicate the writer's deficiency in handling situations with moral distinction or judgment, since the person operates in “the sphere outside the sphere in which moral distinctions or judgments apply” (Alfred Mendel, 1947).

Letters suggest corruption and a lack of morality. The writer may have little regard for laws or rules made by others, and can be a law unto self. He or she may, for example, strike out when a gesture of friendship is expected—a blow in place of a handshake (Mendel).

A serious disturbance in self-concept.
Extreme decisiveness and/or forcefulness. Brutality or cruelty. It may indicate a “hit first, ask questions later” impulsiveness. Pervasive characterological anger (conscious or unconscious) and may indicate a disturbed self-concept... Strokes are frequently found in the handwriting of people who like to use weapons, especially sharp instruments....

The writer has a short fuse and can fly off the handle at the least provocation. A pervasive characterological anger (conscious or unconscious) is suggested. A disturbance in the person’s self-concept.
Writing indicates fraudulent intentions, contrary, tricky, amoral, or who demonstrate active resistance to accepted and legal norms of behavior.
Suggests a loss of or lapse of consciousness, sometimes due to strong internal tension.

The writer may be excessively compulsive in behavior. Often there is a tendency toward over indulgence to relieve accumulated stress and tension. Impending explosion is suggested.
A lack of sensitivity to others’ feelings and may indicate a harsh, crude, and/or brutal individual...

Strong repression suggests that there may have been a long period of training in which deviation met with punishment. (Zmuda, 1986)
May indicate hidden aggression or sneaky, behind-the-scenes activities. The person has a beneath-the-surface, covert, subtle, indirect approach. Connote psychological understanding of unconscious motivations, which can be utilized either positively or negatively. It is sometimes seen in the writing of detectives, vice squad, spies, therapists, or criminals.

Unpleasant unconscious urges and desires affecting the individual's value or belief system and behavior. These urges and desires may not be expressed or acknowledged openly, and therefore actions are likely to be hidden and subversive. (Jeffrey Dahmer).

Thinking and morals may be distorted or strange. The writer may twist ideas or morals to fit his behavior or to justify his actions.. .
The writer will be inclined to act upon this distorted perception, considering his or her own needs first.
Prone to view the world and others in extremes rather than in normal proportions. Sees himself as very important. Tends to be an extremist and may greatly exaggerate issues. .. He or she may expect to be the center of attention, and usually is, either in a positive or negative way. The aim of thoughts and actions is to be recognized... May indicate megalomania.
Indicates very broad, expansive thinking and suggests poor boundaries, inner discipline or firm moral codes. The person can be susceptible to the influence of people or events. Control and self-discipline are lacking and impulsiveness, extravagance, and hedonism are suggested.

The writer has an orientation to the present rather than the past or the future; he deals best with the here and now. It also indicates a strong need for immediate gratification, as well as immaturity and a subjective view of the world. The writer may act now, think later.

A proneness to hypersensitivity which relates to a fluctuating self-image. Unstable responses and inner conflict are implied. The writer is easily affected by outside influences and may therefore be a “barometer” for the feelings of others. The writer will be unpredictable in the expression of his criminal behavior.

A verbally blunt person—someone who lacks tact. It points toward a lack of refined social skills and implies that the writer attempts to overcompensate for a basic feeling of inferiority. A tendency to suddenly lose control. The writer is apt to express his opinions strongly and may want to have the last word...

Indicates erratic responses to environmental influences. Suggests that the writer is ambivalent about interpersonal contact, that he or she is inconsistent and unorganized and lacks logic. The writer does not “have it together” and so may be unpredictable..

Moodiness. This suggests immaturity and labile, unpredictable reactions and behavior. The writer may fluctuate between conscious and subconscious material, or between fact and fantasy.

Variable moods which last for shorter or longer periods of time. Projects or endeavors are started with energy or enthusiasm which wanes quickly, or over a longer period of time. The writer may be bipolar manic depressive.
A resistance toward authority. The writer is alert to possible injustices by authority figures. May illustrate rebelliousness and the fear of losing one’s autonomy. The writer is often willing to break rules and part from tradition. A defiant attitude is sometimes exhibited by sudden and impulsive outbursts, and the writer may be viewed as being crude, uneducated, or antisocial.

Indicates embellishment of basic truth with idiosyncratic perceptions or outright deception. The person can be obsessional and/or untrustworthy. Possible psychotic thought processes. The writer may have intrusive thoughts and ideas that he/she perceives as coming from external sources. This causes tension and may have an effect on the person’s sanity...

Prone to acquisitiveness—a desire to possess, trivial desires. Might imply ambitious desires. Could be motivation for crime.
Illustrates a tendency towards social immaturity. The person may be torn between being soft or harsh. Can represent lack of sensitivity to other people’s feelings. Brutality is a possibility.

Indicates jealousy, the fear of rejection or loss of love. Afraid of losing relationships or things. Suspicious; sees other people as rivals and is therefore insecure and competitive. Guards possessions jealously due to fear of having them taken away. May be provoked to violence in an effort to guard what is his.

Strokes that have a decidedly forward thrust imply aggressiveness and/or initiative. Mental initiative is usually suggested. Physical aggressiveness is implied. Employs considerable energy in their activities, whether positive or negative...

Reticence. The writer may not be willing or able to verbally express thoughts and feelings. He or she generally prefers to keep personal matters concealed.

Suggests vanity, an overestimation of one’s own worth and abilities. The person expects praise and recognition, whether it has been earned or not, tends to think that rules do not apply to him, and may exhibit pomposity, grandiosity, or arrogance. He or she is defended, susceptible to flattery or criticism, and may criticize other people in order to look “better than.”

Accomplishments, efforts, work and the intentions to carry out one’s plans.
Indicates a dominating nature. The writer wants things done his or her way and expects others to help in carrying out plans and intentions. Indicates a domineering, demanding, controlling personality, the result of feelings of futility and powerlessness. The writer wants to be in control of most situations and may impose his will in a demanding way. He wants what he wants when he wants it.

The habit of exploding or reacting with temper when plans or goals are thwarted. The writer is irritable and impatient and wants to get on with things. He or she is apt to “fly off the handle” at the slightest provocation.
A person of strong will, someone who is purposeful and self-directed. The writer can be forceful and hard to stop. The possibility of danger—even brutality.

Suggests very high goals. The writer is prone to have a rich fantasy life in general, and especially where the future is concerned. He or she looks far ahead and may want to do something important or be someone special.
Unreachable or overly ambitious goals which may create frustration. The writer has very unrealistic goals...Enthusiasm and enjoyment of ideas and interests. Inner exuberance lends endurance to one’s will power, allowing him or her to influence others in either a positive or negative manner, depending on what the enthusiasm is about. The writer is likely to follow through with plans and intentions due to the momentum of the enthusiasm.

The writer is determined and self-directed. Once started, he or she has strong follow-through and does not wish to admit defeat. Energy is expressed in physical or practical accomplishments. The writer is “rooted” in the physical. The person can be determined in socially unacceptable areas.

Suggests unusually strong physical and/or material drives. There is a heavy focus on physical satisfactions, i.e. food, sex, and physical activity, or the person may be concerned with financial security. Emotional expression sexual fantasy more likely. A person who runs; goes too far and is unable to stop; hyperactivity is implied.

Indicates a tendency to exaggerate, distort ideas, or daydream, of strong imagery, an active imagination and a rich fantasy life. An overly active imagination can lead to great distortion. The writer may encompass too much in the imagination and end with nothing in reality. Check for delusional thinking.

The person's thoughts are confused and/or distorted. There are possible hallucinations and loss of contact with reality. Such writers may have unfounded religious ideas or fantasies which distort reality.

An unusual thinking style. Unique thinking can be a blessing or a curse. It may indicate talents and uniquely creative abilities OR pathological obsessions, the writer may be “crazy” or creative. The individual’s thinking, philosophy, and/or behavior may be altered to serve his or her own emotional needs.

Indicates manual dexterity and an ability to work with tools and implements. Sometimes found in the handwritings of killers who are deft at carrying out their murderous deeds.

Wavy lead-ins suggest an individual with humor and a generally positive attitude. This is an adult coping mechanism which implies that the writer makes use of humor to keep his or her attitude and surroundings light and positive.

natasha-cupcake
11-17-2007, 09:25 PM
Wow, that is a ton of information! Annasmom, from what you personally knew of GB, does this sound like him? (I have to say that a lot of it fits my impression of what I thought the man would be like. But having no direct experience with him, my impression doesn't really mean anything.) I wonder also what joe ford thinks, since he spent so much time listening to Brody's rantings.

Annasmom
11-17-2007, 09:41 PM
Wow, that is a ton of information! Annasmom, from what you personally knew of GB, does this sound like him? (I have to say that a lot of it fits my impression of what I thought the man would be like. But having no direct experience with him, my impression doesn't really mean anything.) I wonder also what joe ford thinks, since he spent so much time listening to Brody's rantings.
Yes, it is really an amazing portrait and fits with everything I observed about the man. Now if only handwriting could tell us his real name, where he came from, and whether or not he really had something to do with our case...

Dr. Doogie
11-18-2007, 01:47 AM
Peggy Walla explained in a cover letter that each paragraph of the above post is based on a single letter, word or phrase. When you get several "indicators" that align, then you know that you are on the right track. I think she nailed to a "T".

Joe Ford
11-18-2007, 09:07 AM
Wow, that is a ton of information! Annasmom, from what you personally knew of GB, does this sound like him? (I have to say that a lot of it fits my impression of what I thought the man would be like. But having no direct experience with him, my impression doesn't really mean anything.) I wonder also what joe ford thinks, since he spent so much time listening to Brody's rantings.

Truly amazing. From her insight into Brody's personality one would think that she had known and studied him for years. She is dead-on.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
11-18-2007, 11:06 AM
Did Peggy have any back ground information on Brody? I have to admit the report is not shocking, and very impressive. I'm interested in her technique. Did she come up with this all on a hand writing sample alone, with no description of Brody, or was she given a summary of Brody/Waters/Anna Missing first?

Please understand, I'm not doubting anything she wrote, (I totally agree based on my understanding of Brody), I'm just really curious how much she knew before she analyzed his hand writing.

SherlockJr
11-18-2007, 11:31 AM
Did Peggy have any back ground information on Brody? I have to admit the report is not shocking, and very impressive. I'm interested in her technique. Did she come up with this all on a hand writing sample alone, with no description of Brody, or was she given a summary of Brody/Waters/Anna Missing first?

Please understand, I'm not doubting anything she wrote, (I totally agree based on my understanding of Brody), I'm just really curious how much she knew before she analyzed his hand writing.

iW, this is what I wrote to Peggy requesting the analysis....

Dear Peggy,
I am a volunteer helping the family of Michaele Benedict search for her daughter, Anna Christian Waters, who went missing in 1973 at the age of 5. Anna's parents divorced in 1969. When her father (George Waters) moved away from the home he was living in a couple tenderloin hotels with an elderly man. Her father was a physician in San Francisco until his suicide in Jan 1982. After his death, the Waters family had given Michaele all paperwork left in the hotel room in hopes there may be a clue to her daughters whereabouts.
There were hundreds of insurance policies, usually insuring Dr Waters with the elderly man as beneficiary. There were copies of child support checks written before her disappearance and he referenced Anna as A.C.E. (Anna Christian Eifee). The Eifee name was added to her birth certificate within weeks of her birth at the request of the elderly friend of Dr. Waters. I have attached a note that was found in the box of papers which appear to be written prior to Anna's disappearance (Jan 16). This note, we believe, is about purchasing an insurance policy with Anna as beneficiary then possibly changing the beneficiary.

Peggy sent me an e-mail asking an approximate age for GB. Then I received another e-mail with about 20 questions she had.

Annasmom
11-19-2007, 09:44 PM
Here are pertinent excerpts from Peggy Walla's analysis. You will notice some similarities with the analysis of George Brody's handwriting, since possibly the same indicators are there.

Weak boundaries between conscious thought processes and unconscious drives and urges.

Physical or mental breakdown and is often a reflection of active psychosis. The writer’s thoughts and/or emotions are fragmented or disconnected. Possible impending psychosis.


Anger, hostility, irritability and frustration. Easily lose one’s temper. The writer has a short fuse and can fly off the handle at the least provocation.
Inner tension, irritability, and temper. Ruminating or obsessional thinking associated with excessive emotional focus...

A state of high tension and internal pressure. The individual may be unusually reactive to all environmental stimuli, deeply absorbing all emotional experiences... The writer is “carrying a heavy load.”

Indicates inappropriate release and utilization of mental, emotional, and/or physical energies. The personality tends to be lacking in resilience and elasticity, since the upstroke suggests a forced expression of energies. ..

Erratic impulses and uncontrolled emotional responses and urges. Sudden bursts of energy (often sexual) occur according to the preponderance of pressure fluctuation. The writer is apt to be emotionally labile, sometimes nervous. Check for health problems, such as physical exhaustion, emotional problems, and possible psychosis.

Compulsive and uncontrollable indulgence in sensual and libidinal urges, and the possibility of an impending explosion (inner or outer). Intrusive thoughts are affecting the writing form. Emotional blocks. Check for physical illness. If no physical illness is present, dangerousness may well be indicated.

An attempt to cover up or to correct what's already been done. The writer is a fixer or perfectionist, someone who finds it difficult to be satisfied with things as they are. May show a paranoid smoke screen. Guilt is suggested.

Fraudulent intentions. Persons who are contrary, tricky, amoral, or who demonstrate active resistance to accepted and legal norms of behavior.
Suggests a loss of or lapse of consciousness, sometimes due to strong internal tension. The writer may be excessively compulsive in behavior. Look for seizure state or equivalent. Often there is a tendency toward over indulgence to relieve accumulated stress and tension. Impending explosion is suggested.

May indicate hidden aggression or sneaky, behind-the-scenes activities. The person has a beneath-the-surface, covert, subtle, indirect approach. Psychological understanding of unconscious motivations, which can be utilized either positively or negatively. It is sometimes seen in the writing of detectives, vice squad, spies, therapists, or criminals.

Unpleasant unconscious urges and desires affecting the individual's value or belief system and behavior. These urges and desires may not be expressed or acknowledged openly, and therefore actions are likely to be hidden and subversive.

Poor thinking patterns. This may indicate confusion or evasiveness regarding everyday situations. Unrealistic thinking and that the writer does not deal well with personal problems.
Odd or twisted thinking. Can indicate unique or creative thinking. A distorted perception of other people’s rights. The writer will be inclined to act upon this distorted perception, considering his or her own needs first.
Distortions of one’s personal value system. This may include ideas, morals, beliefs, appearance, or general lifestyle. Non-conformist or defiant individuality.

Proneness to hypersensitivity which relates to a fluctuating self-image. Unstable responses and inner conflict are implied. The writer is easily affected by outside influences and may therefore be a “barometer” for the feelings of others. The person will be unpredictable in the expression of his criminal behavior.

The writer’s integrity is at stake. Psychosis is possible.
Indicates immediate and intense emotional responses to outer stimuli, the expression of which may be expressed or controlled depending on other features in the personality. Emotional biases. The person has a tendency to “run away with himself” and is inclined to act impulsively or volcanically. He is capable of being ardent and passionate as well as hysterical. Generally the writer is strongly “cause-oriented.” This sign is likely to facilitate dangerousness because of a tendency for sudden physical or mental action and because it suggests a dissatisfaction with the status quo. May signify emotional dependency.

Implies a person with an erratic emotional nature, one who is subject to the mood of the moment. He or she is easily excitable and unpredictable; behavior may be erratic. Connotes identification problems (conflict between mother-father/male-female roles). Values and self-image are affected by this conflict as the person is pulled in many directions at once.
Erratic responses to environmental influences. Suggests that the writer is ambivalent about interpersonal contact, that he or she is inconsistent and unorganized and lacks logic. The writer does not “have it together” and so may be unpredictable

Irregular baselines indicate moodiness. This suggests immaturity and labile, unpredictable reactions and behavior.
Variable moods which last for shorter or longer periods of time. Projects or endeavors are started with energy or enthusiasm which wanes quickly, or over a longer period of time. The writer may be bipolar manic depressive.
Simplified, direct approach in speech, action, manners, dress, or taste.

Jealousy, the fear of rejection or loss of love. Afraid of losing relationships or things. Suspicious; sees other people as rivals and is therefore insecure and competitive. Guards possessions jealously due to fear of having them taken away. May be provoked to violence in an effort to guard what is his.
Proneness to rush ahead due to difficulty controlling one’s impulses. Once started on a path of action the person tends to become driven or propelled ahead. The person’s mental or emotional brakes are not working properly.

Self-deception or self-denial. The writer can sometimes be manipulative and lacking in clear communication. He may also rationalize, believing only what he wants to believe and ignoring the facts. Lack of perception of the truth. Paranoia is implied. Unclear or deceptive communication.

Fragile self-esteem which requires a defensive posture. Indicates the possibility of sudden emotional outbursts or other strong reactions to perceived threats to the writer’s self-esteem. The person is touchy and may be over-reactive.

Fear of criticism regarding lifestyle, dress, family, customary behavior, etc. There is a tendency to be “thin-skinned”—to imagine disapproval and to magnify criticism, an attitude that comes from guilt feelings. May think people are talking about him, which creates social anxiety. The feelings of guilt may be quite strong, indicating paranoia and the writer may view the present through all the past “tapes” of criticism that continue to be played.
.
Indicates a tendency to exaggerate, distort ideas, or daydream. This sign is suggestive of strong imagery, an active imagination and a rich fantasy life. An overly active imagination can lead to great distortion and, if associated with negative traits, can add to the possibility of dangerousness.

Lack of contact with inner feelings. Does not allow self to be influenced by inner feelings and can therefore be quite objective. Tends to feel isolated from others.

Self-control dominates and that the person may be isolated from his or her emotions and from other people. Lack of spontaneity. Thinking and objectivity predominate over feeling. It also suggests loneliness and a need for space. In extreme cases the writer may fear insanity.

Helpfulness, receptiveness, nurturing qualities, and (sometimes) gullibility.
Psychological insight, an ability to understand and (usually) influence others on a subtle level. The writer uses tact and discretion and works toward peaceful solutions. Difficulty being confrontive and a tendency to avoid issues.

Generosity, a willingness to give or to share that which the person feels to be valuable. They also suggest that the writer may be service-oriented, and that he or she wants to be fair. Some consideration for others.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
11-20-2007, 10:05 AM
Here are pertinent excerpts from Peggy Walla's analysis....snip
Helpfulness, receptiveness, nurturing qualities, and (sometimes) gullibility.
Psychological insight, an ability to understand and (usually) influence others on a subtle level. The writer uses tact and discretion and works toward peaceful solutions. Difficulty being confrontive and a tendency to avoid issues.

Generosity, a willingness to give or to share that which the person feels to be valuable. They also suggest that the writer may be service-oriented, and that he or she wants to be fair. Some consideration for others.


At least she did have something positive to say about Waters. The highlighted area gives me hope that if Brody had a (bad)plan for Anna, that Waters may have had the ability to influenced him into a peaceful solution.

Dr. Doogie
11-26-2007, 12:40 PM
I have been out of touch for the last week, but am back and ready to jump right in.

I have made contact with a gentleman who is looking for a "George Brody from California" whom he served with during the Korean War. IF Brody were to be the age that he said he was, that would have made him 25 years old at the start of the war (which fits). I am sending this man pictures of Brody to confirm that it is the same man. I am not optimistic that the two Brody's are the same guy, but will let you know the outcome.

I have been thinking about some analysis that I have seen recently here that why would the two Georges, who were so careful to not draw attention to themselves, get involved in a kidnapping that would undoubtedly focus suspicion on them? It dawned on me that Brody, as demonstrated by his over-the-top praising of anyone who he wanted something from, believed that he was smarter than everyone else. I can see his ego letting him believe that he could talk his way out of anything. Little did he know that his language fooled no one and only made him look like a cheap conman (which he was).

SherlockJr
11-27-2007, 01:36 PM
Well, since I changed my work schedule again, I've got way too much time on my hands...

http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=9618372446 (http://www.elfyourself.com/?id=9618372446)

This might take 3-4 minutes to load even with high speed internet.

Annasmom
01-03-2008, 05:58 PM
Today I received a letter from a former neighbor in Purisima Canyon who gives her personal memories of the day Anna disappeared, along with notes and observations of a member of her family who is a trial lawyer. This friend writes that the lawyer "was very interested, and completely appalled that none of the neighbors and others who knew you and Anna were ever interviewed by the sheriff's office." "I can confirm that," the friend writes. "Nobody ever came to interview me."

The friend relates quite a number of things of which I was not aware concerning the day Anna disappeared, and I am awaiting her permission to post these. The friend was alerted (by the other neighbor on horseback, the one who heard rustling in the bushes near the creek and thought 'someone had stolen something') that Anna was missing even before the sheriff's people arrived. Although the friend was laid up with a sprained ankle, she climbed a hill "high enough to see pretty nearly every point above the creek between my house and your farm...I could see nothing moving in all that part of the landscape."

"I remember all the forlorn searches of the creek that spring and fall, and the growing certainty that someone had taken Anna," she writes.

The friend says she has read all the on-line material about the search for Anna. She says "I doubt if anything I have to say will be very helpful, but I'm sending this along because I remember an absolutely magical child whose disappearance has never been far from my mind. I hope that some of that magic will be around when you publish."

If she agrees, I will post her descriptions and impressions of the search, since it both confirms and adds to much of what we have learned the past two years.

mfmangel1
01-03-2008, 11:22 PM
Today I received a letter from a former neighbor in Purisima Canyon who gives her personal memories of the day Anna disappeared, along with notes and observations of a member of her family who is a trial lawyer. This friend writes that the lawyer "was very interested, and completely appalled that none of the neighbors and others who knew you and Anna were ever interviewed by the sheriff's office." "I can confirm that," the friend writes. "Nobody ever came to interview me."

The friend relates quite a number of things of which I was not aware concerning the day Anna disappeared, and I am awaiting her permission to post these. The friend was alerted (by the other neighbor on horseback, the one who heard rustling in the bushes near the creek and thought 'someone had stolen something') that Anna was missing even before the sheriff's people arrived. Although the friend was laid up with a sprained ankle, she climbed a hill "high enough to see pretty nearly every point above the creek between my house and your farm...I could see nothing moving in all that part of the landscape."

"I remember all the forlorn searches of the creek that spring and fall, and the growing certainty that someone had taken Anna," she writes.

The friend says she has read all the on-line material about the search for Anna. She says "I doubt if anything I have to say will be very helpful, but I'm sending this along because I remember an absolutely magical child whose disappearance has never been far from my mind. I hope that some of that magic will be around when you publish."



If she agrees, I will post her descriptions and impressions of the search, since it both confirms and adds to much of what we have learned the past two years.


Happy New Year to you, Annasmom and all fellow Websleuthers.

How wonderful to receive this letter from your former neighbor.


Once again, someone states why we are all here...Even if we are reduced to just reading and thinking it through.

SherlockJr
01-04-2008, 01:02 PM
How wonderful to receive this letter from your former neighbor. She is, indeed, magical. Once again, someone states why we are all here...Even if we are reduced to just reading and thinking it through.

I want to thank the neighbor who took the time to write a letter to Annasmom. Even if you thought there was nothing new to contribute to the search for Anna, we're glad you're here at least reading. I found it pretty interesting that no policeman came knocking on the nearby doors that day or the days following Anna's disappearance.

mfmangel1
01-04-2008, 05:21 PM
I want to thank the neighbor who took the time to write a letter to Annasmom. Even if you thought there was nothing new to contribute to the search for Anna, we're glad you're here at least reading. I found it pretty interesting that no policeman came knocking on the nearby doors that day or the days following Anna's disappearance.

SherlockJr, I couldn't believe that either.

Why wouldn't that be considered a routine interview in an investigation, especially of this nature? This is a close neighbor to the victim, close to the aleged scene of the crime and knows the family.

It truly makes you wonder about the depth of the investigation, but I try to remind myself of the time era and that LE was not necessarily well trained in this type of crime. However, interviews seem like a no-brainer.

Annasmom
01-04-2008, 08:12 PM
SherlockJr, I couldn't believe that either.

Why wouldn't that be considered a routine interview in an investigation, especially of this nature? This is a close neighbor to the victim, close to the aleged scene of the crime and knows the family.

It truly makes you wonder about the depth of the investigation, but I try to remind myself of the time era and that LE was not necessarily well trained in this type of crime. However, interviews seem like a no-brainer.
mfangel1, did you get my PM?

mfmangel1
01-07-2008, 02:55 AM
Happy New Year to you, Annasmom and all fellow Websleuthers.

How wonderful to receive this letter from your former neighbor.

I was truly touched to read of Anna's namesakes. She is, indeed, magical.
Once again, someone states why we are all here...Even if we are reduced to just reading and thinking it through.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mfmangel1 http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1889764#post1889764)
Happy New Year to you, Annasmom and all fellow Websleuthers.

How wonderful to receive this letter from your former neighbor.

I was truly touched to read of that she fuond Anna to be magical just as we do. Once again, someone states why we are all here...Even if we are reduced to just reading and thinking it through.



Edited: per request: 1/6/08 :blushing:

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
01-07-2008, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfmangel1 [] (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1889764#post1889764)
Happy New Year to you, Annasmom and all fellow Websleuthers.

How wonderful to receive this letter from your former neighbor.


Edited: per request: 1/6/08 :blushing:

You need to contact the moderator of this thread and have them edit or delete the post in question...you only have so many days to edit.

mfmangel1
01-08-2008, 05:37 AM
You need to contact the moderator of this thread and have them edit or delete the post in question...you only have so many days to edit.



You need to contact the moderator of this thread and have them edit or delete the post in question...you only have so many days to edit.

I have corrected my previous to delete the names if you read of them.

I was merely following Annasmoms's lead when she meantioned the two girls of the in the neighbors' own family. I found it to extremely moving when Annamoms named many names in her book ar the time. She is is an incredibily brave woman to do so. I f she is naming people in the book, I assume that we at Websleuths will know the names just have we we have befure when have gone searching for many names for birth dates, marriages, dates, dates of death, where reside and children.

Annasmom
01-08-2008, 01:20 PM
I want to thank Animal, mfangel1 and iNTERESTED WOMAN for editing some information I posted before I received the source's request not to use it. The former neighbor (I will call her Polly) had not previously responded to Doogie's and my request for information from people who were nearby the day Anna disappeared, since she has moved a number of times and says "it always takes me a very long time to really mull things over and think about what, if anything, I have to contribute."

Polly begins: "Nothing that follows will materially add to the narrative, but may confirm some things for you, and perhaps allow your thinking to take a new direction."

"The Sunday before Anna disappeared I...sprained my ankle badly...that afternoon (Jan. 16, 1973) I had stayed home from work and was in bed...C. came to the front door and I heard her talking to my friend...I caught some words 'little girl - missing - Anna.'

"I leapt out of bed and came to the door to talk to C. myself. She gave me a quick report. She said she was searching along the north side of the creek with her horse. (My friend) and her daughters started east on our side of the creek, calling Anna's name. I laced myself into my hiking boots, crossed my bridge over the creek, and started east along the south side of the creek, also calling for Anna. At that point, I didn't even think about the possibility that Anna had fallen in--I believe I assumed that she had lived in its presence long enough to have respect for it, and I considered Anna to be a very sensible child. I did think it possible that she had wandered into the hills beyond the creek for some reason, and had gotten confused about how to get home. I remember being unable to move very far along the creek, not so much because it was high as because of the steep hill that rose directly behind it on our ranch.

"I climbed the hill high enough to see pretty nearly every point above the creek between my house and your farm, although the creek itself was mostly obscured by willows and brush. I could see nothing moving in all that part of the landscape. While I was up there, I think I remember seeing the sheriff cars arriving, and I started back, thinking there would be some sort of organized search and that I'd better come down to your place to help. I drove down to your house, but all the neighbors seemed to be milling around not knowing what to do, and the sheriff's people and everybody else were concentrating on the creek."

(To be continued)

Cubby
01-08-2008, 02:20 PM
I didn't even think about the possibility that Anna had fallen in--I believe I assumed that she had lived in its presence long enough to have respect for it, and I considered Anna to be a very sensible child. I did think it possible that she had wandered into the hills beyond the creek for some reason, and had gotten confused about how to get home. I remember being unable to move very far along the creek, not so much because it was high as because of the steep hill that rose directly behind it on our ranch.

"I climbed the hill high enough to see pretty nearly every point above the creek between my house and your farm, although the creek itself was mostly obscured by willows and brush. I could see nothing moving in all that part of the landscape."

(To be continued)

Wow. This is quite interesting and I don't believe this theory has been presented. Thank your friend for us please Anna's mom. This was very kind of her to offer. I realize she indicated that she did not see anything moving along the landscape. this makes me wonder if that is possible and perhaps Anna reacted the same way a child in a fire might, and to hide?

Is it possible Anna wandered off in such heavy brush and being so small one would not see movement? Perhaps she wandered so far being lost that she heard the sirens but no one heard her?

I hate to think that... but the possibility arises.

Could you explain again how much of an area was searched and what the landscape described entailed?

Annasmom
01-08-2008, 02:59 PM
Wow. This is quite interesting and I don't believe this theory has been presented. Thank your friend for us please Anna's mom. This was very kind of her to offer. I realize she indicated that she did not see anything moving along the landscape. this makes me wonder if that is possible and perhaps Anna reacted the same way a child in a fire might, and to hide?

Is it possible Anna wandered off in such heavy brush and being so small one would not see movement? Perhaps she wandered so far being lost that she heard the sirens but no one heard her?

I hate to think that... but the possibility arises.

Could you explain again how much of an area was searched and what the landscape described entailed?

I think I'll continue with "Polly's" account and see if that answers some of the questions. She continues her description of Jan. 16, 1973:

"I remember hearing the rooster story already that early from somebody in the group, and because the 'pet rooster' theory sounded so plausible, being overcome with grief and despair. As the afternoon wore on my ankle started to swell,and I realized that I couldn't help search the creek, and in a ground search I would be more trouble than I was worth, so I went home."

(She tells about making something like 50 bologna and cheese sandwiches and taking them back to the search scene.)

"I came down the next day hoping to be useful. Your friend...saw me limping around, and insisted on having a look at my ankle...he sent me off to the Stanford Hospital emergency room, and they gave me some crutches and strict orders not to walk around any more. I remember very little of the search after that--I stayed home for another day, and I think I came and sat with the group waiting in your house in a terrible state of hope and dread for the divers to finish, but I had to go back to work eventually. Sometime during the early days I remember you (and other family members) wondering out loud if Anna's father could have taken her--this in connection with the white van--but I also remember that at that point everybody was intensely focused on the creek.

"In the weeks that followed I remember the speculation growing about the two Georges, especially George Brody and I remember, perhaps inaccurately, that the description of the van's occupants had been a young man and an older man with long white hair and a beard."

(To be continued)

Annasmom
01-08-2008, 03:52 PM
"...we were all so worked up about the tickets that mysteriously arrived for 'Midsummer Night's Dream', so sure somehow that these were from the abductor, possible as part of some crazy paranoid scheme by George Waters that could spell danger for you, that we bought tickets a row behind you so we could protect you from whatever might come. Then a day or so before the performance your friends mentioned that they had sent the tickets to cheer you up, so we all went to the performance, trying to be cheered up, but deeply disappointed that there was no connection to Anna. I remember all the forlorn searches of the creek that spring and fall, and the growing certainty that someone had taken Anna."

A Prosecutor's Perspective

"When I read your narrative, almost the first thing that struck me was how long it took officialdom to even consider the possibility that Anna had not drowned but had been taken by someone, and how little they seem to have done to follow up on that. The rooster story became part of their calculations and remained so until they were forced by Joe's careful reconstruction and the absolute lack of evidence in the creek to give up the notion that she had gone into the creek. By the time they (reluctantly it seems) came to accept the abduction theory, they seem to have decided the case was too cold to devote much time to it."

("Polly" consults with a trial lawyer who has experience with abductions):

"She was very interested, and completely appalled that none of the neighbors and others who knew you and Anna were ever interviewed by the sheriff's office [I can confirm that--nobody ever came to interview me]. In addition to the fact that neighbors and friends are frequently involved in such cases, she said that everybody on Purisima Creek Road should have been extensively interviewed because without realizing it, somebody might have seen something that could have been important.

"It is, of course probably way too late, but it's always possible that somebody along the road may have noticed something odd that day, and dismissed it as 'probably not important'. People often remember small incidents many years later, so perhaps it would be worth tracking everybody down one more time to see what they remember. I know that you have left flyers, but perhaps one more effort [preferably by somebody trained in investigations] to interview directly everybody you can find would be useful."

(Prosecutor's suggestions continue in next post.)

Dr. Doogie
01-08-2008, 09:57 PM
Just a quick interjection here in the middle of Annasmom's posts:

My internet access at work has been extremely restricted - it seems some people were spending way to much time looking for missing children (hmm, I wonder who that could have been?). As a result, I have been AWOL for several days. I have just installed high speed internet at home and am back in the hunt. Thanks for everyone's patience and understanding.

MagicRose99
01-08-2008, 10:10 PM
Just a quick interjection here in the middle of Annasmom's posts:

My internet access at work has been extremely restricted - it seems some people were spending way to much time looking for missing children (hmm, I wonder who that could have been?). As a result, I have been AWOL for several days. I have just installed high speed internet at home and am back in the hunt. Thanks for everyone's patience and understanding.

Ah, "big brother" is at it again! LOL! It's the same with my company... but, being an IT tech we have our priveledges that allow us a little more freedom than the average little peon... :D

laini
01-08-2008, 11:50 PM
Annasmom, Thank you for sharing this latest information / your correspondence with your neighbor with us here. I am also looking forward to your book being finished. I don't post much because I just don't have much to add, but always read here and think of you and Anna.

Annasmom
01-09-2008, 04:30 PM
"1. The best people for investigations of very old cases of this sort are cold case units or retired detectives willing to work for a fixed fee...
"2. Focus on what could have drawn Anna out of the house or the yard. Despite the dog handler's reservations, (the prosecutor) says that the tracking dogs are usually extremely reliable, even several rainy days later, and the path they traced probably more significant than anybody thinks. Could somebody Anna knew have been waving at her down by the creek, enticing her out of the yard?
"3. Focus on school, community--the creek and the crazy father might have been too much of a distraction. (The prosecutor) says school bus drivers, teachers and acquaintances frequently figure in these cases. Anna was beautiful, charismatic and gregarious, and had recently figured in an amateur theatrical that attracted a lot of attention. Did anyone suddenly leave the school, either an employee or a student's family around that time?"

The above is a direct quote from my friend, whom I am calling "Polly" in this post. She and the lawyer had other suggestions which we have tried to no avail (such as having DNA extracted from Anna's possessions. I gave up three little pairs of shoes with some reluctance, but the labs were not able to get anything from them.)

One thing I have become aware of recently is the personal impact Anna's case has made on my friends and their families. Many of them have for years been very fearful for their own children because we have not been able to find answers to Anna's disappearance. This is, of course, something they would not want to tell me about directly, but I am now beginning to see this secondary shock wave very clearly.

I am deeply appreciative to "Polly" and her expert for her observations and suggestions.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
01-10-2008, 03:06 PM
:eek:
...snip..."In the weeks that followed I remember the speculation growing about the two Georges, especially George Brody and I remember, perhaps inaccurately, that the description of the van's occupants had been a young man and an older man with long white hair and a beard."

(To be continued)


I realize "polly" said this might be inaccurate, but I do find it interesting. I wonder if Brody had any wigs in his personal effects.

Matter of fact, what happened to all of Brody's clothing and other possessions after he died? Did Waters get rid of everything before his own death? Was there anything of his left in the hotel room(s) Tooth brush, razor, nail clippers? (I'm really starting to think Brody's death was faked. :eek: )

Also, the Van. Is there anyway to trace back and see if Evelyn Wanek might have owned a White Van? Personal property tax records or something? If she did home visits with her colonic irrigation table, she would have had to have a van or a truck to carry a portable device wouldn't she? :silenced:

Annasmom
01-10-2008, 07:11 PM
:eek:


I realize "polly" said this might be inaccurate, but I do find it interesting. I wonder if Brody had any wigs in his personal effects.

Matter of fact, what happened to all of Brody's clothing and other possessions after he died? Did Waters get rid of everything before his own death? Was there anything of his left in the hotel room(s) Tooth brush, razor, nail clippers? (I'm really starting to think Brody's death was faked. :eek: )

Also, the Van. Is there anyway to trace back and see if Evelyn Wanek might have owned a White Van? Personal property tax records or something? If she did home visits with her colonic irrigation table, she would have had to have a van or a truck to carry a portable device wouldn't she? :silenced:

Some if not all of Brody's things were cleared out after GW died. GW's brother gave some to the hotel desk clerk and others to charities. The clerk mentioned lots and lots of hats. The thing which argues against Brody's death being faked is at least one hospital admission and many evidences of non-traditional cancer therapies.

I forget exactly where we stand with Evelyn Wanek. Didn't we think we had found her daughter?

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
01-10-2008, 10:11 PM
[

quote=Annasmom;1900954]Some if not all of Brody's things were cleared out after GW died. GW's brother gave some to the hotel desk clerk and others to charities. The clerk mentioned lots and lots of hats. The thing which argues against Brody's death being faked is at least one hospital admission and many evidences of non-traditional cancer therapies.



Okay, That's good to know. I watch to much court TV :)



I forget exactly where we stand with Evelyn Wanek. Didn't we think we had found her daughter?
[/QUOTE]

Evelyn, as far as I have found, (maybe others have found more) never married, and never had children. She did have 2 sisters. One for sure had 2 children, (a girl and a boy, but the boy died many years ago. If I remember correctly he was in his early 30's). The girl is a person of interest and I think Dr. Doogie has all the info on a possible relative of hers that is in the same age range as Anna. The other sister is still unaccounted for, (again, others might have found more).

Annasmom
01-11-2008, 07:12 PM
Wow. This is quite interesting and I don't believe this theory has been presented. Thank your friend for us please Anna's mom. This was very kind of her to offer. I realize she indicated that she did not see anything moving along the landscape. this makes me wonder if that is possible and perhaps Anna reacted the same way a child in a fire might, and to hide?

Is it possible Anna wandered off in such heavy brush and being so small one would not see movement? Perhaps she wandered so far being lost that she heard the sirens but no one heard her?

I hate to think that... but the possibility arises.

Could you explain again how much of an area was searched and what the landscape described entailed?
Cubby, I have been meaning to get back to your questions, but I wanted to post most of "Polly's" letter first. I think her remark about the tracking dogs is especially interesting. I am attaching a drawing which shows where Anna was last seen by Craig Barrick, as well as I can tell from his description. This entire area was searched again and again and I really think it is impossible that she could have been missed.
(Sorry..the server stopped responding. I'll try to attach the drawing later.)

Annasmom
01-11-2008, 07:13 PM
Trying again to attach the drawing.

Cubby
01-12-2008, 08:30 AM
Thanks Annas mom. I remember when CB shared this information. It doesn't sound logical, but I thought maybe Anna wandered into some forest and was trying to get a visual. However, that means she would have had to cross the creek right? and if I recall the creek was so high it was impassible over the bridge.

I'm sorry to bring up something that is so difficult to think about, especially now....

I'm so frustrated at times for answers with this case, I often go to sleep praying or asking God for some dream, direction or vision. I'm also frustrated being so far away, that I don't have easy access to old ca records that might need to be found in person.

We need to really retrace steps again based on what the prosecutor suggested.

Prayers 08 is the year we find Anna.

Kelly
01-16-2008, 02:25 AM
My thoughts and prayers are with Anna's family, especially today, 35 years after her disappearance.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
01-16-2008, 10:55 AM
Blessings to Anna and her family on this sad day in their family history. By this time next year, let us be rejoicing. I have faith the answers will come soon.

Annasmom
01-16-2008, 01:05 PM
Blessings to Anna and her family on this sad day in their family history. By this time next year, let us be rejoicing. I have faith the answers will come soon.
Thank you so much.

Gina_M
01-16-2008, 09:03 PM
Anna's family, my thoughts are always with you, and especially today on the 35th anniversary of Anna's disappearance.

SherlockJr
02-26-2008, 01:27 PM
I received an e-mail thru the sfa website a couple weeks ago from a person who reads the forum. This person informed me of a 39 y/o woman who resembles the age progression who has been a family friend for some time. Further investigating on the informants part, ruled out this woman as being Anna. My point for posting this is to bring out the fact that not only members here looking for Anna, but our readers are also.

Gina_M
02-28-2008, 04:57 AM
I am currently moving across the country, driving my car with my Searching For Anna bumper sticker on the rear bumper. By the end of the week, it will have been seen in 10 different states. I hope it piques someone's curiosity and they come check out the website!

Annasmom
03-08-2008, 04:20 PM
I am currently moving across the country, driving my car with my Searching For Anna bumper sticker on the rear bumper. By the end of the week, it will have been seen in 10 different states. I hope it piques someone's curiosity and they come check out the website! Gina, I hope you had a safe journey and that you're settling in. It's so odd to me that nobody here EVER mentions the bumper sticker, though I park all over town and I know they have seen it. I guess people just don't know what to say to me, but it makes me feel strange (and estranged).

itsreenw
03-09-2008, 12:11 AM
Gina, I hope you had a safe journey and that you're settling in. It's so odd to me that nobody here EVER mentions the bumper sticker, though I park all over town and I know they have seen it. I guess people just don't know what to say to me, but it makes me feel strange (and estranged).
Annasmom, don't feel strange. The most important thing is that they've seen it. That just may trigger something in someone's memory and that's what we want.

Cubby
04-02-2008, 07:06 AM
"1. The best people for investigations of very old cases of this sort are cold case units or retired detectives willing to work for a fixed fee...
"2. Focus on what could have drawn Anna out of the house or the yard. Despite the dog handler's reservations, (the prosecutor) says that the tracking dogs are usually extremely reliable, even several rainy days later, and the path they traced probably more significant than anybody thinks. Could somebody Anna knew have been waving at her down by the creek, enticing her out of the yard?
"3. Focus on school, community--the creek and the crazy father might have been too much of a distraction. (The prosecutor) says school bus drivers, teachers and acquaintances frequently figure in these cases. Anna was beautiful, charismatic and gregarious, and had recently figured in an amateur theatrical that attracted a lot of attention. Did anyone suddenly leave the school, either an employee or a student's family around that time?"

The above is a direct quote from my friend, whom I am calling "Polly" in this post. She and the lawyer had other suggestions which we have tried to no avail (such as having DNA extracted from Anna's possessions. I gave up three little pairs of shoes with some reluctance, but the labs were not able to get anything from them.)

One thing I have become aware of recently is the personal impact Anna's case has made on my friends and their families. Many of them have for years been very fearful for their own children because we have not been able to find answers to Anna's disappearance. This is, of course, something they would not want to tell me about directly, but I am now beginning to see this secondary shock wave very clearly.

I am deeply appreciative to "Polly" and her expert for her observations and suggestions.


Since finishing the searching for Anna book, several questions and things have come back to mind, at least for me and some possible unanswered questions that I may have missed. I've spent some time reading some old posts too, to refresh my memory on what has been done.

Based on the prosecutors suggestions, a few things have come to me. I've always wondered why someone would choose a rainy Tuesday to abduct Anna. Then I thought maybe it was someone who knew you, or of you and just enough of your daily routine they would have known you were with Anna at school on Mondays and were unsure if Joe Ford would have worked a full day or not with the weather. The white van got me thinking about contractors/construction workers. Many are typically in a white van. It was a rainy day, trades people were off work who were working in the immediate area. Did Mickles have work going on around the farm in the days or weeks just prior to Anna going missing? Did any of the neighbors or anyone in the immediate area? Perhaps individual names may not be recalled from that long ago, but maybe a name or company name could. Maybe someone who walked off the job before the project was finished? Perhaps searching for a news article with the company name or person with some old criminal history might be worth investigating. I'm not sure if anyone had considered that angle. Might be worth contacting or writing Mickles...... he was overseeing any construction at that time.

The two horsemen who helped with the search. Are you still in contact with them Annasmom? I wonder if they might recall some contact people or names, associations with members of the horse club and possibly the motorcycle club. Anyone disappear unexplained about that time?

Along the same lines as a possible contractor/construction worker angle, anything unusual happen to any family, friends or acquantainces of anyone in your immediate circle or Anna's peers. Maybe someone she had a play date with in the days or weeks prior to going missing? An acquaintance, friend, family member of anyone she was in contact with? any one with "troubles" that maybe they felt uncomfortable with or uneasy about but dismissed as being related to Anna? Maybe something a little hush hush but gossiped among locals?

I also can't get it out of my mind that Anna was so close to the front gate and guest parking when she was last seen. How was Anna with guests? Where these visitors friends that she saw regularly and knew as family friends? Was the activity with the number of visitors that day somewhat usual? Something is telling me perhaps just after the last visitor arrived, someone else pulled near the guest parking or an area not seen from the house and Anna mistakingly greeted them as another visitor. Which would lead her out of the yard and possibly explain the short time between her last being seen and missing.

A BFH guestion..... was there any car rental receipts? Anything to indicate the two G's would have rented a van near that time? Not that I have any idea what we would do with that, other than a tie to the two G's. Was it ever verified in any way other than the medical paperwork found in the BFH GW was really at work that afternoon? would it be possible to find out from whereever he was working at the time this many years later?

This next one is difficult for me to ask. Feel free not to answer if you like.

Lastly, GW's animosity towards you, and the venom you have said he spewed at times verbally. I'm wondering if it was planned numerically or an odd coincidence that Anna went missing on the same date of the month that you and Joe had married just a few months later. Something is not sitting with me right about either of the G's thoughts on another man raising GW's daughter. The comments in the book about GW's feelings of guilt for taking her brothers away from their father got me thinking along this line. It doesn't seem to me there was much time between GW being aware of your remarriage and Anna going missing. I'm not sure how that will help.... but it has been bothering me.

Just thinking outloud..... for more possibilities and ideas.

ETA: Sorry for the lengthy post.

smile22
04-02-2008, 11:48 AM
don't know why i didn't think of this sooner but do u supposed they wanted to pick a day with rain heavy that it would flood the creek so that when anna went missing and le/pd were called the focus would be on the creek the rainboots were they close to the creek when found. could someone have gotten anna and the other person placed the boot there so the creek would be the main focus.

Dr. Doogie
04-02-2008, 12:07 PM
Early on in my involvement in the case, I had a discussion with Joe Ford where he speculated that the abductor may have also been involved with construction. He referred to a case that he had read about where criminal profilers identified a pattern in a series of crimes that occured on weekdays where there were heavy rains. The profilers determined that the perp may have been involved in a job like construction that would free him up on days that a job site was rained out. This narrowed LE's focus and they eventually caught the perp - a construction worker.

And a quick note: our tipster who claims to have seen Anna two years after her abduction says that the abducter "Bill" was a construction worker.

Annasmom
04-02-2008, 12:31 PM
Since finishing the searching for Anna book, several questions and things have come back to mind, at least for me and some possible unanswered questions that I may have missed....Perhaps searching for a news article with the company name or person with some old criminal history might be worth investigating. I'm not sure if anyone had considered that angle. Might be worth contacting or writing Mickles...... he was overseeing any construction at that time.

The two horsemen who helped with the search. Are you still in contact with them Annasmom? I wonder if they might recall some contact people or names, associations with members of the horse club and possibly the motorcycle club. Anyone disappear unexplained about that time?

Along the same lines as a possible contractor/construction worker angle, anything unusual happen to any family, friends or acquantainces of anyone in your immediate circle or Anna's peers. Maybe someone she had a play date with in the days or weeks prior to going missing? An acquaintance, friend, family member of anyone she was in contact with? ...


A BFH guestion..... was there any car rental receipts? Anything to indicate the two G's would have rented a van near that time? Not that I have any idea what we would do with that, other than a tie to the two G's. Was it ever verified in any way other than the medical paperwork found in the BFH GW was really at work that afternoon? would it be possible to find out from whereever he was working at the time this many years later?

This next one is difficult for me to ask. Feel free not to answer if you like.

Lastly, GW's animosity towards you, and the venom you have said he spewed at times verbally. I'm wondering if it was planned numerically or an odd coincidence that Anna went missing on the same date of the month that you and Joe had married just a few months later. Something is not sitting with me right about either of the G's thoughts on another man raising GW's daughter. The comments in the book about GW's feelings of guilt for taking her brothers away from their father got me thinking along this line. It doesn't seem to me there was much time between GW being aware of your remarriage and Anna going missing. I'm not sure how that will help.... but it has been bothering me.

Just thinking outloud..... for more possibilities and ideas.

ETA: Sorry for the lengthy post.

Your letter was a great checklist, and the fact that you had all these questions after reading the book just makes me feel that the book is doing its job. I do need to go and read the microfilm for 1972 in the library. I read it for the year that the "informant" said she saw Anna, but did not look at older copies.

I recently had contact with the individual who was overseeing construction at the farm. He had been a neighbor at the time, and I was trying to fill in a map of all the neighbors. He didn't have anything unusual to report, though he did furnish some names that I hadn't had before.

Thank you for all these questions. I'll keep them in mind and have yet another go at the BFH, argh.

christine2448
04-02-2008, 01:12 PM
Poppin' in just to send some love....also, encouragement...you all are unbelievable. So awesome to watch you all. Thanks.

Dr. Doogie
04-02-2008, 01:28 PM
I'll keep them in mind and have yet another go at the BFH, argh.

I would recommend wearing a necklace made of garlic and keeping a wooden stake handy.

Rhett
04-02-2008, 03:25 PM
Is there by chance anything more to be gleaned from the girl who said she saw Anna with Bill? Would she be willing to undergo hypnosis maybe? Maybe talk to her father if he is still living and try to find out Bill's name.

Mischa
04-02-2008, 03:41 PM
Lastly, GW's animosity towards you, and the venom you have said he spewed at times verbally.


Did it ever occur to you that George Waters probably dreamt of Anna’s Mom becoming his disciple, too? His was very fond of much younger women. Perhaps taking Anna was his revenge for her mother not falling for "fabulous George".
(Sorry, Ms Benedict if I scared or offended you, but I think this thought is to important for not being mentioned)

Regards from Germany

M.

Cubby
04-02-2008, 03:54 PM
Is there by chance anything more to be gleaned from the girl who said she saw Anna with Bill? Would she be willing to undergo hypnosis maybe? Maybe talk to her father if he is still living and try to find out Bill's name.


I had the same thoughts. I wonder if she could provide addresses or tenant names of his investment properties, and wonder if there was a way to search for them if she was unable to... with the full privacy and trust from the core group.

Annasmom
04-02-2008, 04:16 PM
Did it ever occur to you that George Waters probably dreamt of Anna’s Mom becoming his disciple, too? His was very fond of much younger women. Perhaps taking Anna was his revenge for her mother not falling for "fabulous George".
(Sorry, Ms Benedict if I scared or offended you, but I think this thought is to important for not being mentioned)

Regards from Germany

M.
Mischa, I don't know about the revenge motive, but certainly he wanted to enlist me as a disciple and had nothing good to say about me when I categorically refused to let him take over my life, as he put it. If you've ever read any of the Faust stories, that is what it was like. He also had an annoying way of seeming to pick a piece of lint off your sweater or something, so that he was touching you without permission, and yet you couldn't quite say anything. Awful.

Dr. Doogie
04-02-2008, 04:18 PM
Is there by chance anything more to be gleaned from the girl who said she saw Anna with Bill? Would she be willing to undergo hypnosis maybe? Maybe talk to her father if he is still living and try to find out Bill's name.

The woman's father was suffering from alzheimers when we last spoke to her, so that would not be an option. I do not know if she would be willing to undergo hypnosis, but she was very cooperative with our questions.

For me, the question of the validity of this woman's story is still up in the air. The story seems almost too good to be true, but those parts that can be confirmed have proven to be truthful. Some research into her background uncovered some hint that her memories may be suspect, but too much of what she said has been verified to dismiss her outright. We have not done much followup after our initial interviews with her simply because we are not sure which way to go with her information other than giving extra attention to any connections involving a "Bill" or a "William" who may have been a construction worker and who lived in or immediately around the city of San Mateo.

In short, I believe that she believes that the information that she has provided is correct. Her sincerity or intent is not in question, only whether the content is factual or something else.

Dr. Doogie
04-02-2008, 04:37 PM
In reading both from the BFH and Annasmom's book, it seems that revenge probably did play some factor - if it truly was the two Georges behind Anna's abduction. Waters' letters to his parents (which were undoubtedly dictated by Brody) contained horribly insulting references to Annasmom, beyond even what someone might expect during an unfriendly divorce. Evidently, Brody was not happy with this turn of events

I also noticed that coincidence of Anna's disappearance occuring exactly four months to the day after the marriage of Annasmom and Joe Ford. I do not know if this was by design or coincidence, but I do believe that the marriage actually set off the series of events that culminated with Anna's disappearance. Right after the marriage, Annasmom sent Waters a letter informing him of the marriage and that he could discontinue his alimony payments. Having been relieved of an alimony payment of $125, I suspect that the two Georges felt that it was time to be releived of the $175 child support payment also. This motive, coupled with removing Anna as a potential heir to Waters' estate, is what lead to the crime.

Mischa
04-03-2008, 03:10 PM
Mischa, I don't know about the revenge motive, but certainly he wanted to enlist me as a disciple and had nothing good to say about me when I categorically refused to let him take over my life, as he put it. If you've ever read any of the Faust stories, that is what it was like. He also had an annoying way of seeming to pick a piece of lint off your sweater or something, so that he was touching you without permission, and yet you couldn't quite say anything. Awful.

Well - thinking of the necklace of garlic and the stake Dr. Doogie proposed for the dead George- The best way to deal with the living George propably would have been a solid hammer. :D

InterestedNHelping
04-16-2008, 11:33 AM
Today, being my own birthday, I cannot help but think about Anna, we share the same birth year. I have been searching for some time for adoptees in Illinois, thinking that it is possible that the adoptee may think they were born there. I have a few leads, nothing concrete yet. I have discovered that Annasmom can register with the Illinois state police registration database through vital records, and can list herself as a birthparent. since she does not know if Anna could have been taken away by GW to Illinois, and could have been internationally adopted, she should be allowed to register. Also, it is sad to say, but Illinois is notorious for several shady adoption houses during the time that Anna was taken. I watch and search all the time, hoping I will find her.
One off the topic note...there is a place there, called Anna, Illinois...wish I could find her there!
I have learned from other adoptees how difficult it is to reconnect if you were adopted out from these shady homes, but the state is lenient in giving records out in these cases, due to the nature of the people who ran these adoption homes, so that is good news~!
Thinking of Anna today...

Annasmom
04-16-2008, 12:37 PM
Today, being my own birthday, I cannot help but think about Anna, we share the same birth year. I have been searching for some time for adoptees in Illinois, thinking that it is possible that the adoptee may think they were born there. I have a few leads, nothing concrete yet. I have discovered that Annasmom can register with the Illinois state police registration database through vital records, and can list herself as a birthparent. since she does not know if Anna could have been taken away by GW to Illinois, and could have been internationally adopted, she should be allowed to register. Also, it is sad to say, but Illinois is notorious for several shady adoption houses during the time that Anna was taken. I watch and search all the time, hoping I will find her.
One off the topic note...there is a place there, called Anna, Illinois...wish I could find her there!
I have learned from other adoptees how difficult it is to reconnect if you were adopted out from these shady homes, but the state is lenient in giving records out in these cases, due to the nature of the people who ran these adoption homes, so that is good news~!
Thinking of Anna today...
Happy Birthday, INH, and many thanks for your good thoughts. I have been assuming that the National Center and the International Center for Missing and Exploited Children covers all the states, since it is staffed at least partially by law enforcement people.

SherlockJr
04-19-2008, 12:24 PM
Today, being my own birthday, I cannot help but think about Anna, we share the same birth year. I have been searching for some time for adoptees in Illinois, thinking that it is possible that the adoptee may think they were born there. I have a few leads, nothing concrete yet. I have discovered that Annasmom can register with the Illinois state police registration database through vital records, and can list herself as a birthparent. since she does not know if Anna could have been taken away by GW to Illinois, and could have been internationally adopted, she should be allowed to register. Also, it is sad to say, but Illinois is notorious for several shady adoption houses during the time that Anna was taken. I watch and search all the time, hoping I will find her.
One off the topic note...there is a place there, called Anna, Illinois...wish I could find her there!
I have learned from other adoptees how difficult it is to reconnect if you were adopted out from these shady homes, but the state is lenient in giving records out in these cases, due to the nature of the people who ran these adoption homes, so that is good news~!
Thinking of Anna today...

Happy belated Birthday INH! With the news breaking last week with the commune in TX, I can't help but think could Anna be there?

suzapalooza
04-22-2008, 09:00 AM
I'm the neighbor on the farm who lived in the small cottage by the stream. I got the book as soon as Annasmom told me via email that it was available, and I'm a little upset with myself about how much I have forgotten. Some of my lapsed memory I can blame on residual chemo-brain, and some on old age. In particular, I don’t remember the information uncovered as a result of surveillance of the two Georges, and the contents of the Box From Hell. I’d moved to New Mexico, and from there to Pennsylvania, and am now in North Carolina. Today, I want to toss a couple dreams into the pot along with some strange events that may or may not have any relevance.

Annasmom, Annasbro, JoeFord, Sherlock, Doogie, and all you wonderful sleuths, I've just been reading through the threads on the forum here, and am so impressed with everyone's insights and theories, and how you all are working so closely to find Anna. Your sleuthing and reviews of all known facts make it clear that Anna was taken away by somebody. I don't really remember much about that day, it was so chaotic, and all the focus was on searching the flooded stream and the many buildings and barns on the farm. And then with the arrival of the sheriffs and the divers, helicopters, the whole place was teeming with people. Even though I was there that day, in Annasmom's living room with her and Joe, so many details have fled my mind over the years. I do remember Annasmom getting up and saying with a serious look on her face 'I'm not tracking Anna.' And that's when we all started looking around the farm, calling for her. And time turned upside down.

I remember Annasmom telling me about a dream she had, shortly after Anna disappeared, when Anna appeared to her covered in a seaweed-draped shawl. At least it was something like that.

I told Annasmom about a dream I had in which Anna and I were at a big flea market, a huge swap meet in a football stadium, we were walking along the aisles of tables; then the dream shifted and we were in a neighborhood, where the stoops of the row houses came right down to the sidewalk, and as we were walking along we looked up, to our right, and there was an enormous white rabbit on the top step. The rabbit had a large pink rose 'tattooed' on its chest, in its fur. Then I woke up. Years later I saw Carole Bell, a psychic in Albuquerque. At the end of the session I told her I'd lost a good friend, a 5-year-old girl, she looked at me and said right away 'She is OK, she's with the Rose People.' I didn't know what she meant, so she said that the Rose People are like spirits, we can walk right through them. Hmmmm. Maybe she's with a family last name of Rose?

Anna was the only person on the farm who would come and eat liver and onions with me. And a little bacon, of course. She loved to help me measure and count my worms. One worm was so big, we made a special bed for him, and Anna named him King Worm. He had whiskers. She also named my billy goat: Rocky Road Raccoon Flower. Anna was great fun to be with, her giggles were infectious, we had many good laughs together. I hope she is alive and still giggling. Maybe she is a gardener, raising worms somewhere...

Two other things I remember. In Annasmom's kitchen there was a small mirror over the stove, and some time after Anna disappeared I looked at the mirror, and it wasn't my reflection, it was an old mutual friend's face looking back at me. It was the ex-wife of Dr. Dick. Annasmom and I called her on the phone immediately, and we all cried. Later, back down in my little cottage, I walked by the mirror on the bathroom door, and there was NO reflection.

And oh, now I am remembering a Tarot reading over at Jeffrey's in Mill Valley. The reader basically said the cards said Anna was a prisoner of some sort. This was before Jeffrey disowned all of us, the old San Francisco crew. He 'got religion.'

Also I thought the van that the carpenter saw leaving the canyon after he stopped to commune with the horses by the fence at Bud's, that the van was a green panel van with two men in the front seats who waved to him. But I may be mixing this up with the old movie 'The Collector' where the guy drove a green panel van. That movie was scary.

The small footprints in the mud at the bank of the stream by the big barn were probably mine, as I wore little kid size work boots. I remember going there while searching. That barn had a big water wheel around back. I don't remember if my estranged husband was there for the search as we'd split up by then. Annasmom, was he there?

Annasmom, I have had many occasions in my life to remember your words to me on a day we stood on the bridge, leaning on the railing overlooking the stream, you'd been re-reading The Tibetan Book of the Dead, and you turned to me and said, 'These things happen to those of us who can handle it.' We just handle it. There are varying degrees of handling sadness, tragedy, mystery, frustration, anger, confusion. It slips all around, is never static, and is all a part of handling it. You have always been my model for strength, grace under pressure, beauty, talent, and concern for all those around you. Remembering your words helped me handle the nightmare of BC.

I can't help but feel that the two Georges were the schemers behind Anna's disappearance. If anybody can solve this, it will be this great crew here at Websleuths...

Annasmom, I pray you get a call from Anna soon... and Anna, wherever you are, please call your mom

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-22-2008, 09:22 AM
Susapaloosa. WELCOME to websluthes. Your post was of great interest to me. Thank you so much for sharing.

I got goose bumps when you mentioned "the Rose people". Some of us have had a theory , (no proof what-so-ever, but still in the backs of our minds) that Anna and Rose Cole, (a missing teenager in the area at the time) are/were together possibly at the Synanon, or more likely after Rose escaped from there.

Anyway, I really hope you continue to post.

Annasmom
04-22-2008, 01:40 PM
I am thrilled that SP is posting. She certainly was Anna's best Big Friend. Sometimes I think Anna thought of her as her second mother, except that in a way they were more like sisters...very much alike in their creative and whimsical nature and their curiosity about the world around them. In answer to SP's question, I don't remember the ex being there; I'd have to check my diary to see. The dream she describes (not the rabbit--the other one) is very vivid, however, and I think I described it in the book. It was in full color. Someone had given Anna a bath and washed her hair and she was wearing a brown poncho which I had never seen and she was pouting, with her lip stuck out.

InterestedNHelping
04-23-2008, 10:23 AM
Suza, all I can say is WOW...it seems that everyone close to this case has had their own version of dreams, related to Anna. She is a close connection to our hearts. Throughout this work to find Anna, I have recalled with amazing recollection, how many people I know that adopted children at that time. I know so very many people that are exactly my age that are adopted, and I have perused my memory to make sure that none are Anna. I even had friends who had their youngest child pass away,(in the 70s) and her name was Christianna, and she was a brown-eyed blond, but I know for certain that she was their own blood child. (But I have always wanted to ask them to their face, if she was!)
The more people that come together here from all sides of the fence the better we can do to create a scenario of where Anna is. Everyone here is valued and appreciated for whatever they can bring to our discussion, no matter what that is.
The way to find Anna, is together...all-inclusiveness will show her to us!
welcome here to websleuths, we value your input.

InterestedNHelping
04-23-2008, 10:25 AM
Thanks everyone for the happy birthdays...I am the same age as Anna, and I think of her every day.

InterestedNHelping
04-23-2008, 12:02 PM
This has most likely been covered, but I am researching and need some info...what hospital was Anna born in, or was she born at home, or who was the doctor?

Annasmom
04-23-2008, 12:32 PM
This has most likely been covered, but I am researching and need some info...what hospital was Anna born in, or was she born at home, or who was the doctor? She was born at the University of California hospital in San Francisco. Her doctor was Dr. Orcutt.

InterestedNHelping
04-23-2008, 12:49 PM
Thank you, was there ever any clarity on which side of Anna's face the mole was on?

InterestedNHelping
04-23-2008, 01:01 PM
One more note on 'the rose' thing...remember our discussion on the Rosicrucians?

Annasmom
04-23-2008, 01:36 PM
Thank you, was there ever any clarity on which side of Anna's face the mole was on?
The mole was on her right cheekbone, as it appears in the latest NCMEC age progression picture. The website www.searchingforanna.com (maintained by AnnasUnc and the family) is a quick way to check out things like this throughout the day, since I may only be on line once a day. Thank you for working on this.

InterestedNHelping
04-23-2008, 01:43 PM
Thanks again, I did look at the site first, lol, that's why I asked, as I wasn't sure that this was the corrected image, so I thought I might double check, causing my self more confusion rather than less!

InterestedNHelping
04-23-2008, 02:57 PM
This listing in the california birth index has haunted me for quite some time, so maybe someone else can give an idea on it. Is this merely coincidence, or did the Georges do it?
It is listed as the day after(17th) Anna disappeared in (Jan 16)1973, but her birth year. Listing the mother as waters, and the first name unlisted. I have always thought if she had been taken by the Georges that she might have a new birthday of the date she was taken, and her actual year. Oddly enough it appears chronologically a few births above Anna in the index.
Alameda is the county, Oakland is in this county.
WATERS 1967 01 17 WATERS FEMALE ALAMEDA

suzapalooza
04-23-2008, 02:59 PM
INH and Annasmom, I'm not familiar with your discussion on the Rosicrucians, however, it has sparked a blip in my memory bank. Annasmom, didn't the farm have a visit from a woman who was Rosicrucian, I couldn't say when exactly, but I DO remember she said this to us: 'The hand that rocks the cradle, rocks the world.' Who was she, who was she visiting, why was she there? Was she wearing a scarf on her head? It seems we sat around under the weeping willow tree... Am I remembering correctly?

~suzapalooza

Annasmom
04-23-2008, 04:20 PM
INH and Annasmom, I'm not familiar with your discussion on the Rosicrucians, however, it has sparked a blip in my memory bank. Annasmom, didn't the farm have a visit from a woman who was Rosicrucian, I couldn't say when exactly, but I DO remember she said this to us: 'The hand that rocks the cradle, rocks the world.' Who was she, who was she visiting, why was she there? Was she wearing a scarf on her head? It seems we sat around under the weeping willow tree... Am I remembering correctly?

~suzapalooza

There was a woman who drove a little old church bus and who hoped to rent one of the houses. I don't remember a Rosicrucian connection, but the woman's name was Cherie. She was an artist and worked with wax and batik.

SherlockJr
04-24-2008, 12:34 PM
This listing in the california birth index has haunted me for quite some time, so maybe someone else can give an idea on it. Is this merely coincidence, or did the Georges do it?
It is listed as the day after(17th) Anna disappeared in (Jan 16)1973, but her birth year. Listing the mother as waters, and the first name unlisted. I have always thought if she had been taken by the Georges that she might have a new birthday of the date she was taken, and her actual year. Oddly enough it appears chronologically a few births above Anna in the index.
Alameda is the county, Oakland is in this county.
WATERS 1967 01 17 WATERS FEMALE ALAMEDA

GW does have a sister. Could she have given a child up for adoption around that time?

Annasbro
04-24-2008, 12:57 PM
Hi suzapalooza! Thanks for your recalling of the day Anna disappeared and for contributing to websleuths. It brought me back to the time and place very strongly. I remember king worm very clearly! A quick question - do you think the Rose people be the Rosicrucians? Just thought I would throw that out there.

Annasmom
04-24-2008, 08:03 PM
GW does have a sister. Could she have given a child up for adoption around that time?

No, that did not happen. Waters is a fairly common name, but no babies were given up by this family, at least not voluntarily.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
04-25-2008, 06:43 PM
One more note on 'the rose' thing...remember our discussion on the Rosicrucians?

I had read a lot on the Rosicrucians at the time of that discussion. In my humble oppenion, I don't think Brody was a member. One of the major factors being that Annsmom mentioned on a few occasions that Brody had a taste for expensive Brandy. The Rosicrucians are strictly anti-alcohol. They are also Vegetarian...I don't remember that ever being discussed about Brody though.

Does anyone know if Brody was a vegetarian?

Anything is possible. I have been know to break a few rules of my religion on occasion...(shhh, don't tell :))

MagicRose99
04-25-2008, 07:18 PM
Brody wouldn't have to have been a member of the Rosicrucians in order to send Anna off with them... it's still a possiblity that I wouldn't write off quickly...

smile22
04-25-2008, 10:54 PM
how do we find out more info on these people and where they live

Annasmom
04-26-2008, 12:29 PM
I had read a lot on the Rosicrucians at the time of that discussion. In my humble oppenion, I don't think Brody was a member. One of the major factors being that Annsmom mentioned on a few occasions that Brody had a taste for expensive Brandy. The Rosicrucians are strictly anti-alcohol. They are also Vegetarian...I don't remember that ever being discussed about Brody though.

Does anyone know if Brody was a vegetarian?

Anything is possible. I have been know to break a few rules of my religion on occasion...(shhh, don't tell :)) I won't tell! I never saw Brody eat food, but since he and GW frequented Denny's, I would be very surprised if he didn't eat meat.

Annasmom
04-26-2008, 12:31 PM
how do we find out more info on these people and where they live
The organization has an office somewhere near San Jose. Remember that GW in the Squibb books ordered an ephemeris (calendar used in astrology) from the Rosicrucians, who sell these. I'm sure there are other Rosicrucian offices and local organizations, but I'm not sure how locating these might help us. I don't think Brody had any formal association with any group.

InterestedNHelping
04-27-2008, 09:45 AM
San Jose is their headquarters, I was doing research last week.(They have a beautiful museum there, and park) But I have to say, I do not think that Brody was a member of them, I just can't see his egoist attitude in this organization. There is plenty of info on Rosecrusians online, but they do not move in a sect, so to speak, so Anna 'going with them' doesn't make any sense. It's like a belief and study system, like most religions or faiths, but it doesn't organize quite the same way you would think with any certain denominational church. Read their belief structure and study at their website if you are interested. They started during Egyptian times.

I will try to find the link again.

Cubby
04-29-2008, 10:26 PM
Hi Suzapalooza! Welcome to WS. I am so glad to see you posting.

I'm throwing this out here while I am thinking about it. "Upstream". Paraphrasing. I have noticed, one of the psychics Annas mom mentioned in the book. "A woman walked with Anna along the creek and led her away from the property." "The search dog, ran to the creek, under the bridge, and upstream before giving up and back tracking", and Joe's notes, or notes indicating one of the places someone could view the ranch without being seen was along the creek east bound, which I assume is upstream.

White panel truck, "turn around" for vehicles 1/4 mile or 1/8 mile east bound on Purisima creek road, same place the neighbor heard noises as if someone were stealing something after siren went off.

This combination leads me to believe, whoever took Anna did move east bound after the initial abduction.

Oddly, when pondering on this more, I wondered what if any skills GW ( or GB) had that would allow him to pull off such a move. What kind of skills did he and his family have based on his childhood history?

Was there enough time for that white panel truck to turn around after CB arrived at the home and take Anna? did CB associate with any questionable people? Could someone have followed him to the farm after he left work? - that goes back to my questions presented to Annasmom a few weeks ago regarding who was doing work on the ranch in the days or weeks preceding Anna's disapearance.

Joes blog and the book mention the daily activity with horse people, and various clubs. Were these people on a routine schedule? Did their business daily are regular times?

Someone had to have a real good feel for the daily routines around the farm and studied them for some time before taking Anna.

I'm trying so hard to focus and understand just what the daily routine was and what unusual things may have occured in the days and weeks prior to Anna going missing.

Cubby
04-29-2008, 10:35 PM
It was some time ago that Doug mentioned the possibility of looking for GW's FBI file.... but it would be a lot of work......

It's never left my mind that possiblity, a name exists in that file who may lead to an adopted child, someone with a criminal background, or various other possibilities.

Was a decision ever made on pursing that avenue? I know it would take a lot of time, but.... this investigation has been going on for a lot of time. I know other more pressing issues and leads have come and gone, but I really hate the thought of letting something fall to the side based on how much time it might take to pursue, and I would be more than happy to assist Doogie in and way I possibly can, to help with some of these. OR anyone else....

:blowkiss:

NJshrink
05-18-2008, 06:02 AM
As I continue my random searches, I came across a woman who lists herself on my space as Insomnia Mommy/Bammy. She mentions her husband's name as James. She reports that he is a retired military man. In the 1970's they were stationed in Korea and then Germany. Interestingly she reports that she has a 41 yr. old daughter (whom she does not name) a 33 yr. old daughter (unnamed) and a son who lost mental capacities in a car accident. She also says she has a five yr. old "daughter" named Anna. Jumping around to her contacts on my space I gleaned her name is Judy LLLLubeck age 61. She is very involved with religious ministries and now lives in Mississippi. Several of her children and grandchildren are also involved in the Baptist/Evangelical ministries some in Florida and Texas also. Some of them are religious singers and there are many pictures. The one named Jenny B. looks an awful lot like the updated pictures of Anna. I have a feeloing some of these people may have even posted here. The Christina glitter art comes up alot there as does fairies. I could be way off base here, but considering that there is again a funny reference to "mom" being miraculously cured of cancer and an earlier citing of a woman in Illinois who said a father and daughter came alone into a church there when she was ill and gave her a crucifix, this ay be worth checking out. Remember there was also a reference in GB's plans to making final arrangements with "L's."

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
05-19-2008, 09:34 AM
As I continue my random searches, I came across a woman who lists herself on my space as Insomnia Mommy/Bammy. She mentions her husband's name as James. She reports that he is a retired military man. In the 1970's they were stationed in Korea and then Germany. Interestingly she reports that she has a 41 yr. old daughter (whom she does not name) a 33 yr. old daughter (unnamed) and a son who lost mental capacities in a car accident. She also says she has a five yr. old "daughter" named Anna. Jumping around to her contacts on my space I gleaned her name is Judy LLLLubeck age 61. She is very involved with religious ministries and now lives in Mississippi. Several of her children and grandchildren are also involved in the Baptist/Evangelical ministries some in Florida and Texas also. Some of them are religious singers and there are many pictures. The one named Jenny B. looks an awful lot like the updated pictures of Anna. I have a feeloing some of these people may have even posted here. The Christina glitter art comes up alot there as does fairies. I could be way off base here, but considering that there is again a funny reference to "mom" being miraculously cured of cancer and an earlier citing of a woman in Illinois who said a father and daughter came alone into a church there when she was ill and gave her a crucifix, this ay be worth checking out. Remember there was also a reference in GB's plans to making final arrangements with "L's."
Do you have any links? I've done several searches on Myspace using the names /Identities you posted, and am not finding anything. I not very myspace savvy, so it could be just me.

smile22
05-19-2008, 10:10 PM
Do you have any links? I've done several searches on Myspace using the names /Identities you posted, and am not finding anything. I not very myspace savvy, so it could be just me.

i did the same thing and came up blank like u did i send a pm for the link but no response as of yet

NJshrink
05-20-2008, 10:29 PM
Since I am not involved in my space, I didn't think to post the cites, sorry. What I did have in my notes as I surfed around was for Insomniac Mommy/Bammy whose cite is myspace.com/AnnaAshleyJillian. I'm not sure if there are slashes between the names or they are even in caps. As I said earlier I believe her name is Judy Lubeck, married to a James. She has a sister Sherry Wheeler. Jenny B is listed on my space.com/berens There is also a Jenny Wright aka Dizzy married to Ramie Socks listed in myspace.com/dizzy11981 I can't tell who is exactly related to whom, when things were posted and which generation each person represents. It seemed strange that a 61 yr. old woman now has a 5 year old unless someone in her family died and she is raising the child or this is a grandchild. Some of the trail and leads had come via a site for Father Wades in Lakeland, Florida who seems to run Blue Kirk Mission cite myspace.comfriarwade I also had a 41 yr. old woman named Anna in Norway listed in myspace.com/777cecca She was either a writer or muscian (I can't recall) who also had friends on her list from Greece. I also came across a Rick Von Eye in Texas at The Way of Christ Ministry also connected I think the connection here is to the sister of Judy named Sherry in Austin, Texas. That's as far as this amateur has gotten.

smile22
05-20-2008, 11:46 PM
Since I am not involved in my space, I didn't think to post the cites, sorry. What I did have in my notes as I surfed around was for Insomniac Mommy/Bammy whose cite is myspace.com/AnnaAshleyJillian. I'm not sure if there are slashes between the names or they are even in caps. As I said earlier I believe her name is Judy Lubeck, married to a James. She has a sister Sherry Wheeler. Jenny B is listed on my space.com/berens There is also a Jenny Wright aka Dizzy married to Ramie Socks listed in myspace.com/dizzy11981 I can't tell who is exactly related to whom, when things were posted and which generation each person represents. It seemed strange that a 61 yr. old woman now has a 5 year old unless someone in her family died and she is raising the child or this is a grandchild. Some of the trail and leads had come via a site for Father Wades in Lakeland, Florida who seems to run Blue Kirk Mission cite myspace.comfriarwade I also had a 41 yr. old woman named Anna in Norway listed in myspace.com/777cecca She was either a writer or muscian (I can't recall) who also had friends on her list from Greece. I also came across a Rick Von Eye in Texas at The Way of Christ Ministry also connected I think the connection here is to the sister of Judy named Sherry in Austin, Texas. That's as far as this amateur has gotten.

i searched all over those pages for jenny b when i went to the website for the jenny b i got a myspace for a josh who looked like he was 18 and no refrence to a jenny b

Mocha Java
05-22-2008, 12:17 AM
I don't know if one needs to be a member to view profiles, but here's the link to Jenny B's myspace profile:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=219013940

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
05-22-2008, 09:42 AM
I don't know if one needs to be a member to view profiles, but here's the link to Jenny B's myspace profile:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=219013940

Thanks for the link Mocha!!

Sadly, Jenny B has blue-gray eyes, Anna's are brown. She would have been a pretty good match otherwise.

Annasmom
05-23-2008, 01:46 PM
Because many of you log in from your workplace computers and we are coming up to a holiday weekend, I want to remind you that Sunday, May 25, is Missing Children's Day. We will be leaving our porch lights on in the evening as a gesture to light the way home for all missing children. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children reports that in a single year, 797,500 children go missing, 21,000 a day. In our search for Anna, we want to remember all these children and their families. Anna's family thanks each of you for your support, your help, and your affection.

Jodibug
05-23-2008, 01:57 PM
Annasmom- I have been away from WS for several weeks since having my baby, but I wanted to let you know that I think of you often.

I have much catching-up to do here!

NJshrink
05-23-2008, 02:46 PM
Just want to remind you that many people wear colored contact lenses.

NJshrink
05-23-2008, 03:04 PM
Here's another cite and I hope this one really isn't Anna. It is listed on the Charley Project as Annette Marie Mizener dob 7/18/67 disappeared 12/4/04. It is #408 for the year 2004. It says she lived in Wisconsin, had a daughter and a son and just adopted two more kids. Also said she has a BA from Upper Ohio U and ran a business with her husband.

Annasmom
05-23-2008, 05:29 PM
Annasmom- I have been away from WS for several weeks since having my baby, but I wanted to let you know that I think of you often.

I have much catching-up to do here!

Jodibug, congratulations! Tell us more!

Cubby
05-25-2008, 07:37 PM
Jodibug, congratulations! Tell us more!


Annasmom, Jodibug has a thread in the Jury room. Will come back and link it. I miss those days with no sleep, wrinkled skin, and the blister on the lip from nursing. How soon we forget after those first few weeks of sleep deprived nights. Congrats Jodibug! I can't wait for my nephew to get here, edd 07-15.

Stopping in today on National Missing Childrens day. I was just about to call our local oldies station, 94.7 true oldies to request Brandy- Looking Glass for Anna, and guess what was playing! Guess I will have to call in another request when I ask everyone to keep their porch lights on tonight.

Thanks for the smile Anna, and letting us know you know we are thinking of you. Your timing was impeccable... now just give us a sign to find you!

Testing the link from the JR. This should work for members Annasmom.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65206

Annasmom
05-25-2008, 11:09 PM
Annasmom, Jodibug has a thread in the Jury room. Will come back and link it. I miss those days with no sleep, wrinkled skin, and the blister on the lip from nursing. How soon we forget after those first few weeks of sleep deprived nights. Congrats Jodibug! I can't wait for my nephew to get here, edd 07-15.

Stopping in today on National Missing Childrens day. I was just about to call our local oldies station, 94.7 true oldies to request Brandy- Looking Glass for Anna, and guess what was playing! Guess I will have to call in another request when I ask everyone to keep their porch lights on tonight.

Thanks for the smile Anna, and letting us know you know we are thinking of you. Your timing was impeccable... now just give us a sign to find you!

Testing the link from the JR. This should work for members Annasmom.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65206

Thanks so much, Cubby. The porch light is on.

NJshrink
06-08-2008, 04:23 PM
I wonder if it might be of any help in the search for Anna to photoshop her most recent age enhanced photo altering her hair color and styles. I find myself searching for only light blonds. Perhaps she has dyed it strawberry, auburn or brown. Perhaps she wears it pixie, bob or pageboy.

Annasmom
06-16-2008, 02:08 PM
We'll be out of touch the next two weeks, but Doogie and SherlockJr know how to contact us if you find Anna before then! Hugs to you all.

NJshrink
06-20-2008, 06:44 PM
I cannot remember who may or may not have been ruled out as "Anna", but while working on another case, the one of missing Michelle Marie Ashley Nicholaous (Doe case # 2355DFMA), several thing caused me pause. The first was a very young picture of her (not dated) that looked like Anna might have around age 6-8. The second thing was noticing that she grew up in Conn. Her birth date was listed as 10/18/66. In a bit further exploring this case, her mother's name was ROSE Young. I'm not clear if she or her mother was a nurse. The mother lived in Vermont in 1988 when her daughter went missing from MA with her children. It was also noted that MICHELLE had sandy brown thick hair and brown eyes. Again, since this young woman may have been killed at age 22, I hope this is not Anna. If this has already been explored, sorry for the repetition. There is DNA on file for Michelle.

SherlockJr
06-25-2008, 10:56 AM
I am looking for anyone who has a membership to newspaperarchive.com! Please e-mail me at reuniteanna@yahoo.com. There are a couple articles of interest from 1973 that we may want to look at.

SherlockJr
06-25-2008, 08:22 PM
:clap:A big thank you to Tuitsweet for her assistance in the newspaper archive lookup. Dr. Doogie, you were right about the kidnapping in the Bahamas.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
06-26-2008, 02:11 PM
:clap:A big thank you to Tuitsweet for her assistance in the newspaper archive lookup. Dr. Doogie, you were right about the kidnapping in the Bahamas.

Sounds intriguing. Is this something you can share with the forum?

Dr. Doogie
06-26-2008, 02:48 PM
Sounds intriguing. Is this something you can share with the forum?

While searching Google for possibly related events, SherlockJr found a partially listed story about a kidnapped girl who had been found in February 1973. Because it was a snippet of the article, what was not clear until we found the entire story is that the girl was identified and that the kidnapping and recovery were in the Bahamas. Turns out that there is no relation to Anna's case, but SherlockJr is definitely continuing to "beat the bushes" looking for leads!

SherlockJr
06-26-2008, 04:36 PM
Sounds intriguing. Is this something you can share with the forum?

Yes it was intriguing iW! I was gonna send you on this search since it was published in a Nebraska newspaper. Here was the bait...

"Feb 19, 1973 - The kidnapers had left her in an abandoned church near an old lumber camp on the north shore of the island about 10 miles from the Spencers' home. " From The Lincoln Star (Newspaper) - February 19, 1973

SherlockJr
06-30-2008, 05:00 PM
shadowangel (http://websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=5871) http://websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,255


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie
It is stunning the number of missing children from the 1970's and 1980's - before we had Amber Alerts, the NCMEC, Megan's Law, etc. There were an alarming string of child abductions in Northern California alone. However, I do not believe that Anna was taken by a stranger, as coming posts will demonstrate.

In just a very quick cross-reference in my files, I found these around the time of Anna's disappearance on the west coast-
June '71-Debra Pscholka from Corona, CA (12 years old)
Jan '73-Anna Waters
Jan '74-Donna Packenham from Vallejo, CA (13 years old)
March '74-Heidi Peterson from Seattle WA ( 4 years old-remains found 11 months later in a garbage can near her home)
April '74-Cindy Sumpter from San Jose CA (5 years old)
June '74-Michelle Booher from Long Beach, CA (4 years old, later recovered from William Clifton Knapp living in a boarding house under false ID)
Oct '74-Patricia Kompas from Woodland Hills, CA (10 years old)
March '77-Brandi Summers and her youger sister Tiffany Wise from San Bernandino, CA (4 years old-mother had been killed in the home, a baby was left alive in the home)

Distances vary, but just this short list seems like a lot for the time frame...


The name Jack Clifton Sharp, or is he William Clifton Knapp, came up in a newspaper archive I had Tuitsweet do a look-up of. Supposedly he was arrested in Dec 1973 for auto theft and had a 5 yr old girl claiming the girl to be his daughter. The child was placed in a foster home and later turned out to be a girl missing since Nov 1973. He was arrested in summer of 1974 after abducting a 4 yr old. All this I believe occurred in LA or San Diego. However, his name shows up in San Mateo Court system in 1974. Too close to home for me! Remember our newspaper tipster who claimed to have seen Anna was with a man named "Bill" who is about the same age as this guy.

Cubby
07-01-2008, 06:56 AM
shadowangel (http://websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=5871) http://websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,255


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Doogie
It is stunning the number of missing children from the 1970's and 1980's - before we had Amber Alerts, the NCMEC, Megan's Law, etc. There were an alarming string of child abductions in Northern California alone. However, I do not believe that Anna was taken by a stranger, as coming posts will demonstrate.

In just a very quick cross-reference in my files, I found these around the time of Anna's disappearance on the west coast-
June '71-Debra Pscholka from Corona, CA (12 years old)
Jan '73-Anna Waters
Jan '74-Donna Packenham from Vallejo, CA (13 years old)
March '74-Heidi Peterson from Seattle WA ( 4 years old-remains found 11 months later in a garbage can near her home)
April '74-Cindy Sumpter from San Jose CA (5 years old)
June '74-Michelle Booher from Long Beach, CA (4 years old, later recovered from William Clifton Knapp living in a boarding house under false ID)
Oct '74-Patricia Kompas from Woodland Hills, CA (10 years old)
March '77-Brandi Summers and her youger sister Tiffany Wise from San Bernandino, CA (4 years old-mother had been killed in the home, a baby was left alive in the home)

Distances vary, but just this short list seems like a lot for the time frame...


The name Jack Clifton Sharp, or is he William Clifton Knapp, came up in a newspaper archive I had Tuitsweet do a look-up of. Supposedly he was arrested in Dec 1973 for auto theft and had a 5 yr old girl claiming the girl to be his daughter. The child was placed in a foster home and later turned out to be a girl missing since Nov 1973. He was arrested in summer of 1974 after abducting a 4 yr old. All this I believe occurred in LA or San Diego. However, his name shows up in San Mateo Court system in 1974. Too close to home for me! Remember our newspaper tipster who claimed to have seen Anna was with a man named "Bill" who is about the same age as this guy.


There's a post in the old Sharon Marshall forum with an article posted. Scroll down a few posts for the article.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:8ayKoJ6XKb0J:websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D39611+jack+clifton+sharp&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us (http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:8ayKoJ6XKb0J:websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D39611+jack+clifton+sharp&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us)

Knapp was apparently an alias. I wonder where Jack Clifton Sharp was in Jan 73.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
07-01-2008, 09:55 AM
...snip

The name Jack Clifton Sharp, or is he William Clifton Knapp, came up in a newspaper archive I had Tuitsweet do a look-up of. Supposedly he was arrested in Dec 1973 for auto theft and had a 5 yr old girl claiming the girl to be his daughter. The child was placed in a foster home and later turned out to be a girl missing since Nov 1973. He was arrested in summer of 1974 after abducting a 4 yr old. All this I believe occurred in LA or San Diego. However, his name shows up in San Mateo Court system in 1974. Too close to home for me! Remember our newspaper tipster who claimed to have seen Anna was with a man named "Bill" who is about the same age as this guy.

Do you have an approx year or date of birth? There are 3 Jack C. Sharps listed in the SS death records...Is he still living? There is one listed as last resident in WA state...WA has come up several times.

ETA: Actually there are very few Jack Sharps listed in Ancestory...but 713 John Sharps. Ugh, jack is often the nick for john. (Which I always though was odd. :))

Dr. Doogie
07-01-2008, 12:32 PM
The link to San Mateo County was for a change of trial venue. From an article:

"His trial on two counts of child stealing, one of

child molestation and two of car theft was moved to
Redwood City on a change of venue motion granted by
Long Beach Superior Court Judge John Arguellcs.
In granting the motion, Arguclles said pretrial
publicity in the Los Angeles area could possibly prejudice
the Sharp case."

SherlockJr
07-02-2008, 12:30 PM
Do you have an approx year or date of birth? There are 3 Jack C. Sharps listed in the SS death records...Is he still living? There is one listed as last resident in WA state...WA has come up several times.

ETA: Actually there are very few Jack Sharps listed in Ancestory...but 713 John Sharps. Ugh, jack is often the nick for john. (Which I always though was odd. :))

One article says he was 44 in 1974, this puts his birth around 1930 give or take a year.

Dr. Doogie
07-02-2008, 04:30 PM
... (http://websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=5871)Remember our newspaper tipster who claimed to have seen Anna was with a man named "Bill" who is about the same age as this guy.

For the life of me, I cannot recall the age that our tipster said that "Bill" claimed to be. What was it?

Dr. Doogie
07-02-2008, 05:00 PM
...I wonder where Jack Clifton Sharp was in Jan 73.

We are looking into that, but it appears that he is in the SF Bay Area in 2008. Because this guy seems to have used numerous aliases in the past, tracing his earlier whereabouts is proving tricky. I have been able to place someone by the same name as one of his aliases as probably in San Mateo in mid-February 1973, but honestly, I doubt it is the same guy - we will need to determine much more about Sharp's background and family ties before we can connect these possibilities.

There is a lot of media coverage (and hence, internet information) about him right up to the sentencing stage of his trial, but we have not been able to determine the length of his actual sentence. (He was eligible for up to 60 years in prison, but this being California, he probably served substantially less time and is free today.)

This guy is a bad, bad man. He kidnapped one 5 year old girl and held her until he was arrested on a car theft charge a couple of months later. Because he was able to "brainwash" this girl into believing that he was her father, authorities also believed it and placed her into the foster system since her "father" was incarerated. While he was in jail, it was determined that he had an outstanding warrant for child molestation. The same day as he was released from jail, he immediately kidnapped another girl. Fortunately, he was arrested within days and the second girl was returned to her family. Eventually, a detective realized that the first girl was actually a missing child and was removed from foster care and returned to her family. So in summary, this guy had one outstanding molestation warrant, kidnaps one girl, then immediately kidnapped another girl upon his release - three victims in a short period of time. As I said, a very bad, bad man.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
07-02-2008, 10:34 PM
The first child was kidnapped on her way to school by Sharp, but I can't find anything about the second child. Any idea if either known cases were random, or did he stalked these victims first?

Dr. Doogie
07-03-2008, 12:01 PM
The first child was kidnapped on her way to school by Sharp, but I can't find anything about the second child. Any idea if either known cases were random, or did he stalked these victims first?

Evidently, he stalked the second girl prior to her abduction. He was observed watching her as she waited to be picked up by a family member after school, then abducted her one day when the family member was a little late. She was enticed into the car by an offer of candy.

Interestingly, the first girl was told by Sharp that her mother had died and that he was her father. In the couple of months that she was with him, she became completely convinced that this was true. This is why when he was arrested for car theft, she was placed into foster care - she believed that this was true so LE had no reason to suspect otherwise. This scenario matches exactly what we have suspected may have happened to Anna.

At this point, we have no reason to believe that Sharp had anything to do with Anna's abduction, but it seems prudent to explore this possibility. I remain convinced that Anna disappearance was related to the two Georges and their insurance schemes, but must remain open to other options. One encouraging note, if Sharp was involved, is that all three of his known victims are alive. He seems to have been a kidnapper and molester, but not a murderer. Again, I do not think that he was involved, but if he was, there is still reason for hope.

Cubby
07-03-2008, 12:13 PM
Just wondering, do any pictures of this Jack C. Sharp exist? Especially any from the early to mid 70's? If so, is it possible to get back in contact with the tipster who believed she saw Anna in the fall of 76 with a man named "Bill" is it possible to have her look at a photo and see if this is the man she remembers seeing?

Since he would have been incarcerated after 74 it's still possible he could have passed Anna along to an associate while he was incarcerated. Especially if he had a relatively short sentance.

Just some thoughts.

Dr. Doogie
07-03-2008, 12:48 PM
Just wondering, do any pictures of this Jack C. Sharp exist? Especially any from the early to mid 70's?

We have a picture from a newspaper in 1974. I wil try and post it here over this weekend.


If so, is it possible to get back in contact with the tipster who believed she saw Anna in the fall of 76 with a man named "Bill" is it possible to have her look at a photo and see if this is the man she remembers seeing?

Since he would have been incarcerated after 74 it's still possible he could have passed Anna along to an associate while he was incarcerated. Especially if he had a relatively short sentance.

I would hope that he was in prison for longer than two years for kidnapping two girls, but this is California, so anything is possible. I would want to establish that Sharp was a free man in late 1976 before contacting the tipster. If we discover that we was not incarcerated at that time, then we should show her the picture.

Cubby
07-03-2008, 03:30 PM
Additional information I have found on Jack C. Sharp

Jack Clifton Sharp dob 05-23-1930
listed in veromi.net with the middle name spelling of Cliffton in El Cerrito CA with the same dob.

SSN 132-18-2829 issued NY
deceased 05-24-2002

will add anything else I find.

Cubby
07-03-2008, 03:42 PM
I think I found him listed as a son in the 1930 census in luzerne PA.. with a birth year of 1930 but don't have a subscription to ancestry.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
07-03-2008, 04:15 PM
I think I found him listed as a son in the 1930 census in luzerne PA.. with a birth year of 1930 but don't have a subscription to ancestry.

Hi Cubby
I checked out the PA guy, and his birthdate is off. It says he's 1/12 (1 month old), and the census was taken in April. Are you sure of the dates?

Thanks Doogie for the additional info on Sharp.

Cubby
07-03-2008, 04:32 PM
I found the 05/23/1930 DOB on a criminal record search.. verified it with the SS info and with a veromi search of first name and birthdate...

Maybe the May and Mar were incorrectly entered for the census or this is a different jack sharp with a march 1930 birth?

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
07-03-2008, 04:52 PM
I found the 05/23/1930 DOB on a criminal record search.. verified it with the SS info and with a veromi search of first name and birthdate...

Maybe the May and Mar were incorrectly entered for the census or this is a different jack sharp with a march 1930 birth?

The census was taken in April 1930, (1 month before the criminal Jack Sharp was born). The record for the PA Jack said he was 1/12th year old. Sorry I didn't explain myself better.

The couple in the car is why Jack is of interest to me. I found a Jack C Sharp, (but various birth years listed) who married the same woman at least twice. Once in NV and possibly twice in CA. My imagination started wandering, thinking of various scenarios.

Cubby
07-03-2008, 05:03 PM
The census was taken in April 1930, (1 month before the criminal Jack Sharp was born). The record for the PA Jack said he was 1/12th year old. Sorry I didn't explain myself better.

The couple in the car is why Jack is of interest to me. I found a Jack C Sharp, (but various birth years listed) who married the same woman at least twice. Once in NV and possibly twice in CA. My imagination started wandering, thinking of various scenarios.


I thought maybe when the census data was entered it was entered incorrectly with a march birth month instead of may, but that makes no sense if this Jack wasn't born yet. Could explain the error for an earlier census but not someone not yet born in April of 1930 :doh: LOL!

Cubby
07-03-2008, 05:29 PM
I see that no searchable online records exist for California prison records.

I found the sentencing info for JCS but nothing yet for actual amount of time served.
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/645688402.html?dids=645688402:645688402&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:AI&date=Dec+08%2C+1974&author=&pub=Los+Angeles+Times&desc=Abductor+of+2+Girls+Sentenced+to+Prison&pqatl=google (http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/latimes/access/645688402.html?dids=645688402:645688402&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:AI&date=Dec+08%2C+1974&author=&pub=Los+Angeles+Times&desc=Abductor+of+2+Girls+Sentenced+to+Prison&pqatl=google)

Abductor of 2 Girls Sentenced to Prisonhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifLos Angeles Times (1886-Current File) - Los Angeles, Calif. Date Dec 8, 1974Start Page:2Pages:1Section:PART ONEText Word Count:295http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gif Abstract (Document Summary)http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifhttp://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifA 45-year-old man convicted of stealing two Los Angeles County girls from their parents has been sentenced in a Redwood City court to serve from one to 20 years in prison. Jack C. Sharp was convicted Nov. 12 and ordered to undergo psychiatric care at a state facility in Va-...

Dr. Doogie
07-03-2008, 11:33 PM
I see that no searchable online records exist for California prison records.

No, the Peoples Republic of California feels that informing the public might inconvience the convicts and interfer with their rights. :bang:


I...http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/art/null.gifA 45-year-old man convicted of stealing two Los Angeles County girls from their parents has been sentenced in a Redwood City court to serve from one to 20 years in prison...

...which probably means he served one year for kidnapping two young girls after a history of molestation (Man, I hate my state sometimes.). More important to our purpose, that would make him likely to have been out in 1976.

Cubby
07-04-2008, 12:05 AM
No, the Peoples Republic of California feels that informing the public might inconvience the convicts and interfer with their rights. :bang:



...which probably means he served one year for kidnapping two young girls after a history of molestation (Man, I hate my state sometimes.). More important to our purpose, that would make him likely to have been out in 1976.


My thoughts exactly Doogie. I cringed reading a year? I still have not found much, afriend on another forum, found this... and I did too.... I was hoping to "solicit" someone to do some research who was local.

from a web site:

The state prison system in California does not have an online lookup of current
or past prisoners. However, this information can be obtained by telephone with
the prisoners name and DOB. Call 916-445-6713 and expect to make multiple
attempts to get through. In the alternative, you may fax a request to
916-322-0500.

I guess we will have to do this after the holiday weekend. One site said expect to call over and over and over and over to get through.....

Again, hoping to just get that release date!

Anyone have time to spend the same amount of time as you would at the DMV or calling CSE? Have at it........ otherwise I will, but I do not have easy access to a fax....

Dr. Doogie
07-04-2008, 02:02 PM
I tried this on an unrelated investigation that I was doing and ran into a brick wall. My research concerned incarceration dates in the 1960's through the 1980's. I found out when my POI was released in 1983, but none of the earlier other long series of prison stints. Maybe someone with more time and determination can acheive more than me.

SideKick
07-13-2008, 09:40 PM
I have been wondering if any of the guests who visited the day of Anna's disappearance were expected that day?

Were there any guests on this rainy day who arrived out of the blue?

What about any days previous to the disappearance? Does anyone recall anything out unusual upon reflecting the day?

Again, trying to close all possiblities.

It blows my mind that she could disappear within such a short time frame considering this happened in a rural area. Perhaps there was a stranger in the Half Moon Bay area eyeing the schools as well... ?

I realize aspects of this question has been discussed in the past, you just never know what one may recall.

Thanks! :)

Annasmom
07-14-2008, 02:07 PM
I have been wondering if any of the guests who visited the day of Anna's disappearance were expected that day?

Were there any guests on this rainy day who arrived out of the blue?

What about any days previous to the disappearance? Does anyone recall anything out unusual upon reflecting the day?

Again, trying to close all possiblities.

It blows my mind that she could disappear within such a short time frame considering this happened in a rural area. Perhaps there was a stranger in the Half Moon Bay area eyeing the schools as well... ?

I realize aspects of this question has been discussed in the past, you just never know what one may recall.

Thanks! :)

The one unexpected guest (who also was the last person to see Anna, since he said she greeted him as he drove up) has been questioned extensively, as were the blacksmith who was there that day. We have not found anything to indicate that either of these people were involved in Anna's disappearance.

Not only is it mind-blowing that she disappeared in such a short period of time, but also that despite the very quick response of the Sheriff's Office and their extensive search, not a clue was found.

Regarding someone watching the school: Anna's kindergarten friend posted some time ago having noticed someone watching her and her friends as they walked home from school. Of course, at this point there is no way we can really pin this down except as a possibility.

SideKick
07-14-2008, 09:28 PM
Thanks Annasmom,

I do know the last person to see Anna was cleared.

The someone watching the school is interesting. I recall talk of a sex offender living near and someone feeling edgy who lived nearby. I wonder who this person was/is? I did a quick Google search but didn't find anything yet.

Dr. Doogie
07-24-2008, 01:27 PM
We have made contact today with a woman who says that she was abducted and raised in a "family" with other abducted children and is searching for her birth family. Her age and eye color make it unlikely that she is Anna, though we will look further into the possibility before dismissing it. She does resemble Annasmom in her facial features.

I am also interested in the other members of her family - could Anna be one of her "sisters"?. The intriguing thing about her story is that she was raised in Massachusetts - the same state that Brody's death certificate said was his birth state.

I also offered our assistance in her search for her family. Any help that we can offer to assist a family finding their missing daughter will hopefully build us up "karmic brownie points" for our search.

I will keep you informed of any developments as I can.

Lucy's mom
07-24-2008, 02:54 PM
Thank you Dr. Doogie! Please, please let us know how this goes. Even if this isn't Anna, you might be able to help some parents out there who also had their child abducted. We'll keep you and Anna's mom in our prayers!:blowkiss:

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
07-24-2008, 07:12 PM
Wow, this is big Dr. Doogie. Thank you for sharing it with the forum. Regardless if she or her abducted siblings turn out to be Anna, this could be a blessing for many, many people! Please keep us updated as you can. I'll be saying a prayer of hope.

Annasmom
07-24-2008, 08:15 PM
We have made contact today with a woman who says that she was abducted and raised in a "family" with other abducted children and is searching for her birth family. Her age and eye color make it unlikely that she is Anna, though we will look further into the possibility before dismissing it. She does resemble Annasmom in her facial features.

I am also interested in the other members of her family - could Anna be one of her "sisters"?. The intriguing thing about her story is that she was raised in Massachusetts - the same state that Brody's death certificate said was his birth state.

I also offered our assistance in her search for her family. Any help that we can offer to assist a family finding their missing daughter will hopefully build us up "karmic brownie points" for our search.

I will keep you informed of any developments as I can.

Doogie, any pictures?

SideKick
07-25-2008, 11:28 AM
I have been in contact with a Greek Adoptee Reunion Registry. The woman who runs this agency kindly responded and is willing to help with the search for Anna. I will post what she wrote to me in hopes anyone can add or comment on this connection.

From Ifigenia:

I have read Anna's story very carefully. It is really an extraordinary case. Though we haven't a lot of secure elements of how Anna has been adopted in Greece. Or anyway adopted.

See people in my country believe that I am specialized in illegal adoptions.
The truth is that I am doing my best to help people that they were victims of illegal adoptions.
I am a reunited adoptee my self who was sold by a criminal net of black baby market in Greece.
I have a couple of things to suggest as a friendly advice.
First for an illegal adoption what is needed is the victim to be an infant.
For this they infant was claimed of unknown parents and than was given to adoption.
A birth certification from any registration Hall was provided from a doctor for this purpose.

Anna was 5 years old in the time of her disappearance. No such certification can be provided. A 5 years old child can't be identified as a child of unknown parents.
Therefore such a birth certificate can't be presented in front of any court authority ...each.

I am sure that the authorities there investigated all ready if any passport was granted to a girl in this age. I want to believe so.
I see that there are very few elements about the Greek doctor that has a possible involvement with Anna's possible adoption.
Really I can't. Not because Greeks aren't capable in such evolvements.
They certainly are.

Anna was a big girl big enough to start talking. No one could jeopardize his status or carrier in an abduction selling a 5 years old girl who can talk.

Black market in Greece of selling babies ( infants) is really flourishing. Abductions that living no trace behind. But there aren't illegal adoptions in elder children.

Only one in case such a case could be covered. can explain right away. If the alleged parents had a girl in Anna's age , kidnapped her and than asked for a passport for Anna by falsifying Anna's photo and presented only the birth certification in a State of Usa that no one knew that their real girl was all ready dead. This way is much easier than an illegal adoption. Any adoption needs a court decision plus a social worker to investigate the case. Who could jeopardize such a thing for a five years old girl?

Believe me I know very much about an adoption process.

However what i can promise is to have my antenna's high in the sky in case any info will cross us about Anna.

Also Anna's story , if permission will be granted, will be published in the new web site that we will shortly have on air.

The first global data base for missing persons in Greece.

See a couple of pages. 3000 cases will be on air in English and in Greek.
The search site is called www.thebookoflife.gr and it is under construction now.
Gladly we will include Anna's story in here also.

** Ifigenia is busy at the moment reuniting and finding lost people, but will be in touch with Anna's mother soon to discuss airing Anna's story. :)

Cheers!

SideKick
07-25-2008, 11:32 AM
Here is the link for the Greek online registry and a MySpace link as well.

http://www.seasyp.gr/


http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=177590862

Dr. Doogie
07-25-2008, 12:36 PM
The new woman that we have been looking at is not Anna. She was also the only female in her "family" consisting of abducted children. She has stated that she believes that her abductor did take other girls, but they seem to have met a different fate than this woman.

This woman is involved with a website and forum operated by our own GinaM. The site is http://findmywayhome.org. This site is just beginning so it could use a lot of new traffic to help it take off. What is nice about this site is its focus on helping adults who were abducted as children - the exact focus that I and others had suggested was missing in the spectrum of "Cold Case" forums available. Bewteen this site and information from this woman, I hope that we can gain a greater understanding of what someone who has been through a childhood abduction would be doing to find their family - this will help us know what we need to do to make ourselves available for any search that Anna may be doing looking for her family.

Lucy's mom
07-25-2008, 04:06 PM
Dr. Doogie,

Has the woman found her parents yet? Does she know how she was abducted and when? Do you know what fate the other girls met? Sorry for all the questions! I'm just amazed that she knows she was abducted and is reaching out. I think it's awesome. Please keep us posted about her if you don't mind.

Annasmom
07-25-2008, 05:14 PM
Here is the link for the Greek online registry and a MySpace link as well.

http://www.seasyp.gr/


http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=177590862

Just a reminder for those of you who may not know why we're looking at Greek adoptees. (1) GW insisted on joint custody of Anna, though he never saw her or tried to see her after he left before she was one year old. (2) GW had strong connections with Greece, had taught there for a year and later did a medical elective there. He had contacts and spoke the language somewhat. (3) Among his effects in the Box was a picture of him holding Anna with her full name (including the "Eifee") and birthdate on the back. Such a picture could have been used for a passport in those days, and the size was appropriate for this use. (4) GW applied for a new passport while he still had a valid passport--the one which would have had entry and exit stamps showing where he traveled--claiming that the old passport had been destroyed in a fire. (5) Under "destination" on his last passport application, he wrote "Europe and Greece". (6) There were several flight insurance policies among all those insurance policies, the kind you get at the airport. Some of Ifigenia's remarks to not apply to us...GW could have "placed" Anna with someone anywhere, asking them to care for her. As regards the language, Anna's older brother spoke nothing but Greek when we left the country. He was five at the time. Within a year, he had forgotten his Greek and only spoke English.

Lucy's mom
07-25-2008, 07:12 PM
Thank you for sharing that, Anna's mom. I was unaware that their is such a strong connection to Greece. Did you know any of GW's associates either when he taught or did his elective there? I know this was a long time ago, but is or was there any way to track if he applied for a passport for someone other than himself...as the parent or guardian? Again, thank you for sharing and we're still praying for a positive outcome!

Dr. Doogie
07-25-2008, 07:51 PM
Has the woman found her parents yet? Does she know how she was abducted and when?

No, she is looking for answers. I do not know how far back she can trace her abduction. She has reasons to be careful about what she reveals publicly since this situation involves people still living.


Do you know what fate the other girls met?

I am reluctant to give out too much info before I have a chance to scour her public posts on the other forum. I do not want to reveal anything that she has not already released - she is in a dangerous situation where discretion on our part is required.

She has been working with some people similar to ourselves who are assisting her search. I am sure that she has shared many details with them that she has not shared with me since we have just made contact. Details may be forthcoming, but I must move slowly and not betray any trust that has yet to be established.

Dr. Doogie
07-25-2008, 07:57 PM
Thank you for sharing that, Anna's mom. I was unaware that their is such a strong connection to Greece. Did you know any of GW's associates either when he taught or did his elective there? I know this was a long time ago, but is or was there any way to track if he applied for a passport for someone other than himself...as the parent or guardian? Again, thank you for sharing and we're still praying for a positive outcome!

Annasmom and her two sons were living in Greece when she met Waters.

The State Department seems to have created a "catch-22" situation: since Anna is currently an adult, she must give permission for Annasmom to look at her passport records. But how can she give permission if she is missing? The events in question happened when Anna was a child so the reasoning behind this is infathomable. Just a bunch of stinking bureaucrats making our path more difficult... :banghead:

SideKick
07-25-2008, 10:58 PM
Doogie,

Could U.S. Customs have any records of travel in their database? Something somewhere would be recorded. Could LE step in to inquire to these US officials, afterall, this is not an everyday request or situation? Anna is indeed missing, therefore, who can help us get the information needed?
The White House?

Cubby
07-25-2008, 11:36 PM
I think it was last summer we found info that LE could request the information regarding the passport for Anna with a simple letter on LE letterhead. IIRC, Annasmom sent a letter to LE and did not hear back.

Dr. Doogie
07-28-2008, 12:25 PM
The woman mentioned in my above posts has asked that I pass along to Annasmom the following encouragement: That there are adult survivors of abduction from the 1960's and 1970's that are looking for their families and to not give up hope.

I wanted to share that here to remind all of us also that answers are out there just waiting to be found.

Lucy's mom
07-28-2008, 01:21 PM
No, she is looking for answers. I do not know how far back she can trace her abduction. She has reasons to be careful about what she reveals publicly since this situation involves people still living.



I am reluctant to give out too much info before I have a chance to scour her public posts on the other forum. I do not want to reveal anything that she has not already released - she is in a dangerous situation where discretion on our part is required.

She has been working with some people similar to ourselves who are assisting her search. I am sure that she has shared many details with them that she has not shared with me since we have just made contact. Details may be forthcoming, but I must move slowly and not betray any trust that has yet to be established.
I completely understand! I hope that she is able to come up with some answers regarding her "real" family. Again, thank you!

SideKick
07-30-2008, 02:27 PM
Hi,

I believe this has been discussed however, if anyone can recall the weeks prior to Anna's disappearance, was there anything at all unusual?

Could have been an abundance of cars up and down the road, any new carpenters hired in the neighbourhood, any odd calls or hangups? I do think whoever took Anna, knew Anna personally as her abduction was not only quick but quiet.

I understand the weeks following her disappearance was 'as usual', nothing out of the ordinary, no odd calls, no unusual things happening.

Have the Patel's been contacted at all? The people who previously owned the hotel where the G's lived?

Bank of America owned 'the property', again who were the people who ran the farm? A woman. Has she been looked at thoroughly?

Also... the numbers written on the Squibb after G. Brody passed away, have all these numbers been fully researched to our ability?


Thank you.

Annasmom
07-30-2008, 08:04 PM
Hi,

I believe this has been discussed however, if anyone can recall the weeks prior to Anna's disappearance, was there anything at all unusual?

Could have been an abundance of cars up and down the road, any new carpenters hired in the neighbourhood, any odd calls or hangups? I do think whoever took Anna, knew Anna personally as her abduction was not only quick but quiet.

I understand the weeks following her disappearance was 'as usual', nothing out of the ordinary, no odd calls, no unusual things happening.

Have the Patel's been contacted at all? The people who previously owned the hotel where the G's lived?

Bank of America owned 'the property', again who were the people who ran the farm? A woman. Has she been looked at thoroughly?

Also... the numbers written on the Squibb after G. Brody passed away, have all these numbers been fully researched to our ability?


Thank you.

SideKick,
I think it is a good idea to look back at things we may have passed over previously. I know there have been suggestions we didn't follow through on because we got distracted by another possibility.

One very striking thing about the time just before Anna disappeared is this: For the first time since we had lived on the farm, the big house just south of us was recently vacant; the family and their always-on-guard dog had moved, so that the house nearest the horse barn and the road up to the hunter's cabin was empty. My volunteer day at Anna's school was Monday and Anna disappeared the next day, when I did not go to school and come home with her.

Joe and I were married three and a half months before Anna went missing, which well could have prompted some kind of action. So there was both a possible motive and a window of opportunity here (our young dog Saturn didn't really bark at strangers, but the dog of the family which had moved barked at everything.)

Regarding the Patels: There are hundreds in the Bay Area and we don't know the first name of the man who owned the hotel.

The telephone numbers, both the ones in Squibb and the ones on GW's last telephone bill, have been investigated thoroughly.

The weeks following Anna's disappearance were far from usual or normal. There were people hunting in the woods, up and down the road, near the creek every day. The telephone rang non-stop, and almost every time it rang, we would hear clicks on the party line as other people picked up and listened. When I mentioned this to the Sheriff's people and asked if they were monitoring calls, the answer was "I wouldn't be surprised". At one point, I thought I saw a car resembling the one GW had driven before he left home, drive down the road toward the bridge. This was several days later and I can not be sure it was even the same car. At the time, I thought it was possible that he had driven out to see the place she had disappeared from. I did not really suspect him at that point, but also, remember that I was really in shock in those days and my memories may not be entirely reliable.

There wasn't a woman running the farm. It was in probate and we made our rent payments to a Bank of America. After the probate was settled, the property was bought by Lindsay Mickels ( know nothing about Mickles or Mickels except that he had no response whatsoever to Anna's disappearance.) His employee may be the woman you're thinking of. I can't even remember her name. Both of them ignored the situation completely and only wanted us to vacate Joe's shop and to pay higher rent. One of our other neighbors, Stan, was the manager at the time Anna disappeared. He has been contacted fairly recently regarding the case, but couldn't really add much except to provide the names of some Purisima neighbors which I had forgotten.

Dr. Doogie
08-20-2008, 01:40 PM
There is a relatively new tool available for those of you who want to get a "feel" for the farm from which Anna disappeared and its surroundings.

Go to Google Maps and enter the address "2302 Purisima Creek Road, Half Moon Bay, CA". Then hit the button that says "Street View". This will allow you to "virtually" tour the disappearance site from street level. You can follow the road to the east up the hill and see the place where the farm could be observed from a distance, or travel west and see the most likely escape route of any perpetrators.

SherlockJr
08-21-2008, 09:53 AM
There is a relatively new tool available for those of you who want to get a "feel" for the farm from which Anna disappeared and its surroundings.

Go to Google Maps and enter the address "2302 Purisima Creek Road, Half Moon Bay, CA". Then hit the button that says "Street View". This will allow you to "virtually" tour the disappearance site from street level. You can follow the road to the east up the hill and see the place where the farm could be observed from a distance, or travel west and see the most likely escape route of any perpetrators.

This new tool is quite interesting. The "Y" in the driveway is a lot bigger or longer than I imagined. The distance from the house to the creek is further than I thought it would be. And when you and Annasmom described a fence around the property, I had imagined a huge rod iron fence like most celebrities would have. This is only a small wooden fence.

Dr. Doogie
08-24-2008, 05:36 PM
I was shopping today at my local Wal-Mart. At the entrance to the store is a wall that Wal-Mart uses to display missing children posters supplied by the NCMEC. Today, for the first time that I have ever seen, was Anna's poster prominently displayed. I hope that her face is gracing Wal-Marts across the nation and that someone will recognize her picture.

birdie74
08-24-2008, 05:39 PM
That's great news! I have to go to Wal-Mart tonight anyway after church, so I'll let you know if it's up here in Jacksonville.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
08-24-2008, 06:01 PM
Oh man...We just made our weekely trip to Wal-Mart after church and this was probably the first time I didn't check out the missing kids because we were in a huge hurry. I'm sure I'll be back in town sometime this week. I wonder if Anna's lovely face will adorn our nearest Wal-Mart located in the small town of Fairbury, NE, (the first Wal-mart in Nebraska...for you Wal-Mart trivia buffs)....:) LOL

Annasmom
08-24-2008, 08:55 PM
This new tool is quite interesting. The "Y" in the driveway is a lot bigger or longer than I imagined. The distance from the house to the creek is further than I thought it would be. And when you and Annasmom described a fence around the property, I had imagined a huge rod iron fence like most celebrities would have. This is only a small wooden fence.
It was a grapestake fence, pointed pickets, very old and weathered, with moss growing on it, but it didn't have any holes in it. TC has replaced it with similar grapestake, but newer, of course. I am not able to get Street View on my GoogleEarth for some reason, but of course I can just drive out there and look at the farm. Can you see the hunter's cabin up the hill? I don't know how recently the pictures were made for GoogleEarth. When we lived there, there were three houses, two barns, a millhouse next to the creek, and two other small rickety buildings (one was a chicken coop). After we left, the landlord turned the rickety buildings into houses, preserving the roofline and building below it.

birdie74
08-24-2008, 09:27 PM
It wasn't up in our Wal-Mart. There was an August poster with the Wal-Mart label that had a lot of small pictures from all over the country, and then there were about a dozen or so flyers posted on individual cases with larger pictures. About 2/3 of those were cases from FL, and there was one each from AL, AR, NC, & AZ. I figure they probably limit it to mostly state cases, and the other ones may have had some kind of FL tie.

Anna's poster may have gone up nationally, and our store may just be late in changing them because of the storm. I think we're all at least a couple of days behind at work around here.

Do you know how they choose what goes up? If we can request certain cases, I'd be happy to ask for hers to go up around here.

Annasmom
08-24-2008, 09:57 PM
It wasn't up in our Wal-Mart. There was an August poster with the Wal-Mart label that had a lot of small pictures from all over the country, and then there were about a dozen or so flyers posted on individual cases with larger pictures. About 2/3 of those were cases from FL, and there was one each from AL, AR, NC, & AZ. I figure they probably limit it to mostly state cases, and the other ones may have had some kind of FL tie.

Anna's poster may have gone up nationally, and our store may just be late in changing them because of the storm. I think we're all at least a couple of days behind at work around here.

Do you know how they choose what goes up? If we can request certain cases, I'd be happy to ask for hers to go up around here.

The NCMEC teamed up with something called Valassis Distribution and they were supposed to begin distributing Anna's picture the week of Aug. 10. I had to sign release forms back in June. They old me photo distribution would go to 75 million homes, but I think the Wal-Mart posters are probably also connected with this organization. The letter from the National Center said "Our Case Analysis Support Division reviews and prioritizes each lead...and expeditiously transmits the information to the appropriate law enforcement agency for review and follow up."

I'm really glad her picture is getting around like this. We've tried to think of all sorts of ways to circulate it, (Sherlock even wanted to rent billboard space!) so this is an unexpected and very welcome development. Seventy-five million is a lot of people.

MagicRose99
08-25-2008, 09:26 AM
It was a grapestake fence, pointed pickets, very old and weathered, with moss growing on it, but it didn't have any holes in it. TC has replaced it with similar grapestake, but newer, of course. I am not able to get Street View on my GoogleEarth for some reason, but of course I can just drive out there and look at the farm. Can you see the hunter's cabin up the hill? I don't know how recently the pictures were made for GoogleEarth. When we lived there, there were three houses, two barns, a millhouse next to the creek, and two other small rickety buildings (one was a chicken coop). After we left, the landlord turned the rickety buildings into houses, preserving the roofline and building below it.

Street view isn't with Google Earth, but uses it's technology with their maps feature. Go to www.google.com (http://www.google.com) and in the upper left corner choose "Maps" and then type in addy. When the map comes up, click on the picture in the description box, or drag the little man to where you want him to "view".

Annasmom
08-30-2008, 08:38 PM
Street view isn't with Google Earth, but uses it's technology with their maps feature. Go to www.google.com (http://www.google.com) and in the upper left corner choose "Maps" and then type in addy. When the map comes up, click on the picture in the description box, or drag the little man to where you want him to "view".
Thank you, MagicRose. You know by now that about all I can do with the computer is type! I did look at the street view, and then I looked again with Google Earth. The good thing about the street view is that you can see how Purisima Creek Road joins up with Higgins Canyon Road, which goes directly back to Highway One or Half Moon Bay. You can also tell how far below street level the house is...it's the yellow thing you can ALMOST see behind the picket fence. You can see how we would not be able to see who was on the road from the house. However, this program has removed all the cars, animals, people, and even all the structures except one barn. Since the end of the road became a redwoods preserve, you cannot find a time of day when there aren't cars parked all over the place.

When you use Google Earth to try to get an overhead view, you would think you were in the rain forest. You don't see houses; all you see is very lush green canopy, no meadows, no creek, no nothing but trees. Even in the rainy season, there is not that much greenery.

It probably has something to do with privacy issues, but it is a little misleading to someone who doesn't know how busy the road and the neighborhood were in 1973. They are even busier now, of course, with lots more horse ranches and traffic.

On the other hand, Street View of our street almost lets you look inside the houses. You can read the license plates on the cars. I wonder why there's such a difference.

Dr. Doogie
08-31-2008, 12:33 AM
TC paid off the Google cameraperson? :waitasec:

shadowangel
08-31-2008, 01:35 AM
TC paid off the Google cameraperson? :waitasec:

Not yet another conspiracy! :eek:

Annasmom
08-31-2008, 11:59 AM
Not yet another conspiracy! :eek:

No, I think it's more the camera angle, though obviously Google has removed cars, people, animals, the family names which appear in front of some of the houses. You get a more accurate impression if you ask for street view of 2303 Purisima Creek Rd., Half Moon Bay, California 94019, because it gives you the other (north) side of the road, which is where the mailboxes were and are (the rural mail person drove a right-hand-drive truck). You can also see some of the fancy houses which have gone up since we lived there. In 1973, there was only one other house east of us, or toward the junction of Higgins and Purisima. You can even see TC's mailbox, though the white strip runs right through it.

KivaSupporter
09-06-2008, 09:50 AM
I just posted a message on ProZ Forum (Translators and Interpreters Forum) which is visited by thousands of translators, interpreters and agencies from just about every country each day.

http://www.proz.com/forum/off_topic/114587-abducted_child_taken_overseas_please_help_off_topi c.html
Abducted Child Taken Overseas - Please help

Please help us find Anna Christian Waters.

Her family believes her father might have taken her overseas (Italy, Greece, former Yugoslavia) and another family raised her there, probably under another name. The father has since died without divulging what happened to Anna.

Please click here for pictures and more information:
http://www.searchingforanna.com/

Have you seen her? Can you help with getting the information published in these countries?

Any ideas or suggestions are welcome.

Thanks.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
09-06-2008, 10:42 AM
Good job Kiva. Is there a way to post pictures on that sight? It would be nice to have a childhood picture and an age enhanced pic. of Anna with your notice.

KivaSupporter
09-06-2008, 10:45 AM
Good job Kiva. Is there a way to post pictures on that sight? It would be nice to have a childhood picture and an age enhanced pic. of Anna with your notice.

I wanted to do that but they do not allow pictures. I am hoping people will click on the link.

You made me think. :) I just revised it to read: "Please click here for pictures and more information."

Thank you.

KivaSupporter
09-06-2008, 11:21 AM
I posted a message about the search for Anna on the Ravelry Forum. Ravelry is a very popular international online community. http://www.ravelry.com/discuss/remnants/325349/1-25


http://www.ravelry.com/statistics/users
Presently there are 176,651 registered users.
38,626 users have visited Ravelry during the last 24 hours.

"Ravelry is a place for knitters, crocheters, designers, spinners, and dyers to keep track of their yarn, tools, and pattern information, and look to others for ideas and inspiration. The content here is all user- driven; we as a community make the site what it is. The Yarn Harlot wrote recently about Representing, showing the world the power of our community, and I believe that on this site we can really show the strength of our numbers and the depth of our creativity. So what can you personally do on Ravelry? You can talk about your own projects, integrate that information into your personal website, and contribute to someone else's project a world away. If you are not a blogger, we give you a great way to share and show off your projects, participate in -alongs, and socialize with other crafters. If you are a blogger, then Ravelry is the perfect complement to your online journal; it provides structure and organization. All of your information is easy to enter and easy to find. You will not need to update your own FO album again - it is all here on Ravelry!"

birdie74
09-06-2008, 12:28 PM
KivaSupporter, you are doing such a great job on this. It's great that you know of so many international resources and have such fresh ideas and perspective.

KivaSupporter
09-06-2008, 01:58 PM
KivaSupporter, you are doing such a great job on this. It's great that you know of so many international resources and have such fresh ideas and perspective.

Thank you, Birdie. I hope it will help. By the way, the message on the ProZ forum is getting a lot of hits already. :)

Annasmom
09-06-2008, 04:42 PM
I've had a good cry over this today, so I want to tell you a little about it. When I was twelve years old, my aunt adopted a pretty little girl I've always called my cousin. When I was writing Searching for Anna, I asked my cousin if she would write something about her story to put in the book, but she just couldn't. Someone in the family gave her the book last month; she read it and it prompted her to write to me, though it took her almost a month to mail the letter. The letter arrived this morning.

My cousin still finds it very difficult to write about her past, especially the part before she was adopted, but briefly, she was reunited with her birth mother some years ago after a 44-year search. She says that because of Anna's disappearance (about which she actually knew very little before reading the book), she was certainly overprotective of her own daughter, and she says that she has not been able to sleep very well since reading the book.

She says: "You are a mother with a lost child. I have been a lost child for most of my life." She says that the only thing which sustained her through all those lost years was remembering that her mother loved her. "It was that love that found me after forty-four years of searching," she writes.

At the end of her letter, she cites a passage from the book of Genesis:
"...fear not, for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is."

My cousin writes "Maybe some day I will tell you how this verse has sustained me in trying times."

Lucy's mom
09-06-2008, 10:38 PM
Annasmom,

I truly did need a good cry today. Thank you! I'm not being sarcastic at all...my husband told me this mornng he's not in love with me and does not want to be married anymore. I have not cried until I read this. What you just wrote helped me put things in perspective. Thank you for sharing this with us..with me! :blowkiss:

I pray for you and your daughter every day. I have a 17 year old and cannot imagine. My love to the both of you.

birdie74
09-06-2008, 11:59 PM
Lucy's mom, I'm praying for you and your family, too.

KivaSupporter
09-07-2008, 09:46 AM
Is there anyone here who is a member of any NY state library?

Thanks.

Annasmom
09-11-2008, 07:53 PM
I knew it was coming, knew it was coming, knew it was coming...and it slipped right by me. Happy birthday, dear friend!:blowkiss::woohoo::blowkiss:

SideKick
09-11-2008, 09:59 PM
SherkockJr!!!

A very happy birthday to you!

Cheers

KivaSupporter
09-11-2008, 10:57 PM
Happy birthday, Sherlock Jr.

and many, many more...:blowkiss::blowkiss:

Cubby
09-11-2008, 11:07 PM
HaPpY BiRtHdAy Sherlock Jr.

:HappyBday :gift: :cake4u:

SherlockJr
09-14-2008, 11:07 AM
Thank you all for the warm birthday wishes! I was really hoping the day would go without notice. I have now outlived MK.

NJshrink
09-19-2008, 12:06 AM
Perhaps this is a little naive on my part, but I plugged in the named Anna Christian Effie Waters on the site GovtRegistry.com under adoption records and they suggested a hit. This is a site one has to pay for, so I am not clear if they were actually responding to the entire name or not since I did not pay the fee to see more. I am assuming there was some attempt by LE to plug into national adoption/court records for 1973/74.

momto3kids
09-20-2008, 06:56 PM
IIRC awhile back Annasmom thought about running a local article pertaining to Anna and/or GB. It might just stir some attention in the public who have sat back and not really thought of something they witnessed or maybe someone who looks like Anna now. It only takes 1 person to have their memory triggered.

OT....A few weeks ago an ex police chief was charged in NC with a 1972 murder. An article was run in the paper about this cold case and 1 person came forward. That was all it took.

I know this is not a murder case that only took 1 person to come forward. Even more so, how many people have seen Anna since 1/16/1973? Someone knows something about Anna and it is going to take all angles to find that person.

mkath59
09-20-2008, 08:20 PM
Sherlock -- sorry I missed your bday -- hope it was a great one, girl :-)

I had a visitor a couple of weeks ago --were your ears ringing? ;-)

SherlockJr
09-20-2008, 08:28 PM
Sherlock -- sorry I missed your bday -- hope it was a great one, girl :-)

I had a visitor a couple of weeks ago --were your ears ringing? ;-)

Hey Peeps, thanks for the bd wishes. I can only imagine who came to visit you in Texas. I hope everything went well, which I'm sure it did!

Dr. Doogie
09-21-2008, 01:21 AM
To all of our new visitors from the Caylee Anthony forum:

WELCOME!!!!

We have spent the last few years here looking at anything and everything that may help us finally locate Anna. The amazing thing is that we continue to find important information that has been missed for decades. Many of the new finds have come about precisely because new people have joined the search and have brought with them new ideas and new insights. Each new researcher has made us stronger and have brought us closer to finding answers about Anna. I look forward to the advances that we will make with you, our new friends.

SherlockJr
09-25-2008, 08:42 AM
:HappyBday :cake4u:

Today is Anna's 41st birthday!

Happy Birthday Anna.

Cubby
09-25-2008, 09:33 AM
HaPpY BiRtHdAy Dear Anna!

http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u73/cyarena/comments/bday/images/birthday441.gif (http://www.CyArena.com/comments/bday/)

raf
09-25-2008, 09:40 AM
Happy Birthday Anna!
http://www.umsl.edu/~farrellm/H2H/Kids_Page_Graphics/cake.gifLove, raf

SideKick
09-25-2008, 10:27 AM
Happy Birthday Dear Anna!

Much Love from Canada xoxoxo.. May you hear us call your name!

KivaSupporter
09-25-2008, 10:33 AM
http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr73/hernadez_azucena/ICONS/thz42718848.png

Happy birthday, Anna!

We love you.

Dr. Doogie
09-25-2008, 11:45 AM
Happy Birthday, Anna.

I look forward to when we can all watch you blow out your candles in person.

Annasmom
09-25-2008, 12:27 PM
Thank you, everybody.

Cubby
09-25-2008, 01:39 PM
Thanks for sharing this picture Annasmom. This is a fantastic pic!

SideKick
09-25-2008, 02:07 PM
WOW, fantastic photo of Anna!!

Julessleuther
09-25-2008, 03:56 PM
Happy birthday Anna!!

Annasmom
09-29-2008, 03:49 PM
At Cubby's request, I just made an album of pictures of Anna which you may want to use for Kiva's contest. Some of them you have seen before, but others haven't been posted here previously. Please let me know if you are able to access the pictures. They're really cute...but I could be prejudiced, of course.

christine2448
09-29-2008, 06:34 PM
Just wanted to pop n and say because I have a request from AM. But first, I am sorry I missed Anna's birthday. Awesome picture annasmom! She is BEAUTIFUL in ALL her pics.

I have been reading your book again. I was wondering if I could have your permission to copy and paste the part in the book about how the media spun things and your comments relating, with credit to you and link of course, in our 'tips to sleuthers' section. We have discussed many times how it's so important to NOT put your soul into what media reports in so many of these cases and this is a fine example.

Annasmom
09-29-2008, 08:56 PM
Just wanted to pop n and say because I have a request from AM. But first, I am sorry I missed Anna's birthday. Awesome picture annasmom! She is BEAUTIFUL in ALL her pics.

I have been reading your book again. I was wondering if I could have your permission to copy and paste the part in the book about how the media spun things and your comments relating, with credit to you and link of course, in our 'tips to sleuthers' section. We have discussed many times how it's so important to NOT put your soul into what media reports in so many of these cases and this is a fine example.
Thank you so much, Christine. Certainly, use whatever you think would be helpful. I might add that a lot depends on who you're dealing with in the media. The Half Moon Bay Review reporter Doogie and I spoke with two years ago did all his research and wanted very much to set the record straight. Also the CBS News people were sensitive and considerate...though they did not use the background footage they got, since the story didn't have the outcome they expected. Glad you liked the pictures!

SherlockJr
09-30-2008, 10:09 AM
At Cubby's request, I just made an album of pictures of Anna which you may want to use for Kiva's contest. Some of them you have seen before, but others haven't been posted here previously. Please let me know if you are able to access the pictures. They're really cute...but I could be prejudiced, of course.

Very nice album. Where was the outhouse located? Was it still within the fenced area of the yard? How far from the house? How old was Anna when you allowed her to go to the outhouse alone?

Cubby
09-30-2008, 11:44 AM
I agree, the album is fantastic. I just wish it was available for non members to view. I don't think it is.

The 2nd picture, back yard. Were those the chicken coops? My first impression was it looked like you and Joe Ford had 3 tents set up for the kids to hang out in, and possibly sleep outside.

I was amazed at how large the trees look! I think I have a much better image in mind now... it appears as if some of the area outside the fence was not wooded, but more just overgrown grass or 'farmy'.

I still think the picture posted with Anna on the phone is the best clear image of her eyes. I discussed this with Annasmom, that I think Anna resembles her father more so than her mother in her eye area, and I don't see that in her age progressed photo's. I see too much Annasmom in the eye area. JMVHO.

I look at everyone I see, everywhere... for those eyes. The question, how would one approach a stranger?

Annasmom
09-30-2008, 12:04 PM
Very nice album. Where was the outhouse located? Was it still within the fenced area of the yard? How far from the house? How old was Anna when you allowed her to go to the outhouse alone?
The outhouse was near the chicken coop, which was over the bridge, on the other side of the creek. She was not allowed to cross the bridge or go to the chicken coop by herself, and to my memory she never did. The outhouse was kind of a joke, really...it had been there since the days the place was a working ranch and had farmhands.

Annasmom
09-30-2008, 12:10 PM
I agree, the album is fantastic. I just wish it was available for non members to view. I don't think it is.

The 2nd picture, back yard. Were those the chicken coops? My first impression was it looked like you and Joe Ford had 3 tents set up for the kids to hang out in, and possibly sleep outside.

I was amazed at how large the trees look! I think I have a much better image in mind now... it appears as if some of the area outside the fence was not wooded, but more just overgrown grass or 'farmy'.

I still think the picture posted with Anna on the phone is the best clear image of her eyes. I discussed this with Annasmom, that I think Anna resembles her father more so than her mother in her eye area, and I don't see that in her age progressed photo's. I see too much Annasmom in the eye area. JMVHO.

I look at everyone I see, everywhere... for those eyes. The question, how would one approach a stranger?

I'm not sure which picture you mean, since the order changes...you couldn't see the chicken coop from the house, and there weren't any tents. Possibly you can see the roof lines of the two neighboring houses or the horse barn. You are right that the area was not wooded. If you look at Google Earth, you would think it was a tropical rain forest. Those were fruit trees (bare in January) and the wooded area didn't start until well East on Purisima Creek Road. I'm glad you like the pictures!

Cubby
09-30-2008, 12:26 PM
I'm not sure which picture you mean, since the order changes...you couldn't see the chicken coop from the house, and there weren't any tents. Possibly you can see the roof lines of the two neighboring houses or the horse barn. You are right that the area was not wooded. If you look at Google Earth, you would think it was a tropical rain forest. Those were fruit trees (bare in January) and the wooded area didn't start until well East on Purisima Creek Road. I'm glad you like the pictures!

It was picture 9.
http://websleuths.com/forums/album.php?albumid=529&pictureid=3907

I see three small 'houses' and I think they are the chicken coops.

I see Nonda in one of the pics too. IMO, he looks the same. His childhood pics, and his adult pics.... He's aged, but still recognizable.

I think I found a pic of Eddie... and this is not a bad thing.... but he, like we all have gained wt. No biggie.... (myself, I am now more than I was at full term. eek.)

I think we need to get someone to adjust one of the pics if Anna happened to gain wt. A few over on the Tawni Mazzone /Maricopa Jane doe were able to play around with pics. Do you mind if I ask she post a possible of Anna having gained wt?

I see Nonda and Eddie looking the same as adults.... and I think Anna would too.

jmo

Annasmom
09-30-2008, 01:44 PM
It was picture 9.
http://websleuths.com/forums/album.php?albumid=529&pictureid=3907

I see three small 'houses' and I think they are the chicken coops.

I see Nonda in one of the pics too. IMO, he looks the same. His childhood pics, and his adult pics.... He's aged, but still recognizable.

I think I found a pic of Eddie... and this is not a bad thing.... but he, like we all have gained wt. No biggie.... (myself, I am now more than I was at full term. eek.)

I think we need to get someone to adjust one of the pics if Anna happened to gain wt. A few over on the Tawni Mazzone /Maricopa Jane doe were able to play around with pics. Do you mind if I ask she post a possible of Anna having gained wt?

I see Nonda and Eddie looking the same as adults.... and I think Anna would too.

jmo Maybe I should post the drawing of how the buildings were laid out. In this picture, you see the rope swing to the far left, and a barn behind that. The fence actually surrounds our back yard (the picture seems to have been taken from up on the road.) The buildings you see are the L-shaped big house and the smaller cottage in front of that. Our house is not visible. The buildings on the other side of the creek which included a field hands' shack, an outhouse, and the chicken coop, are obscured by the trees.

I don't mind if anyone plays with the pictures, but since Anna's father and all the relatives on that side of the family are very thin (and I am still about 125 pounds), I don't think it is very likely she would have been more than average weight as an adult. Nonda and Ed are different body types. Nonda is still extremely thin. I think it is likely that Anna would wear glasses, however, and that her hair would be darker and less curly.

Annasmom
09-30-2008, 02:56 PM
Maybe I should post the drawing of how the buildings were laid out. In this picture, you see the rope swing to the far left, and a barn behind that. The fence actually surrounds our back yard (the picture seems to have been taken from up on the road.) The buildings you see are the L-shaped big house and the smaller cottage in front of that. Our house is not visible. The buildings on the other side of the creek which included a field hands' shack, an outhouse, and the chicken coop, are obscured by the trees.

Maybe this picture gives a better idea of the back yard (that's Anna playing badminton with a family friend at a barbecue.) The structure on the left is the big barn. Next to it, through the trees, is the millhouse. A roofline just visible through the trees is the horse barn, which was on the other side of the creek. The buildings I described above are not visible from this angle, but you can see how the yard was completely fenced. I wish I could go back in time and take better pictures, but these are all I have.

SideKick
09-30-2008, 03:04 PM
Thank you Annasmom so much for posting these pic's of Anna, they truly are wonderful photos of her.

I wonder how much it would cost to run a flyer starting with southern california and moving on...? A flyer may get to more people. Perhaps a mailing to homes or an insert in a paper?

Thinking of various ways to get Anna's name on everyone's doorstep.

Cubby
09-30-2008, 03:25 PM
These are incredible pictures... I can see how the back yard sloped... which was different than my vision... and how the large barn, and the chicken coops were buried beneath the tree line... the roofs are still visible. We need to tag this to vague childhood memories....

I'm not sure Anna would recall this particular event, but the swing, backyard, creek are still hopefully very well in her memory.

What a lucky girl to have such an awesome back yard! Wow!

I realize based on Anna's size before she went missing, she was of average ht and wt? I didn't mean to insinuate she would be overweight, I just think it is an option we should look at having family where men were 5'3" to 6' plus.... in three generations.... and the females are as different.

I have noticed more of a consistency with shoe size as opposed to ht.... jmo.

Is there a variance in your extended family as well?

Annasmom
09-30-2008, 04:34 PM
Very nice album. Where was the outhouse located? Was it still within the fenced area of the yard? How far from the house? How old was Anna when you allowed her to go to the outhouse alone?
Here is that drawing of the farm layout. The outhouse is that tiny square between the chicken coop and the hands' shack. Also, here's a picture of our house from the road which shows better what the driveway and yard looked like.

Annasmom
09-30-2008, 06:06 PM
Thank you Annasmom so much for posting these pic's of Anna, they truly are wonderful photos of her.

I wonder how much it would cost to run a flyer starting with southern california and moving on...? A flyer may get to more people. Perhaps a mailing to homes or an insert in a paper?

Thinking of various ways to get Anna's name on everyone's doorstep.

I'm glad you like the photos. I enjoyed getting them together and had a few surprises myself (such as the badminton picture, which was almost invisible until I tweaked the contrast and saw what was really there. We don't really have a budget for a flyer right now, but there are several things in the way of publicity that we can make more of: Kiva's two contests, which don't seem to have really taken off yet, and the WalMart posters, which potentially would reach lots of people.

GraceBlue
10-02-2008, 10:33 AM
Slowly catching up with this thread. I am so behind. I am sorry I havent been on WS, my grandmother was sick then she died, 2 weeks later I gave birth to a baby girl, then we moved to a new house. I am still juggling having 2 kids but Anna has never been far from my mind.

Annasmom
11-10-2008, 10:29 PM
Does anyone have the time or inclination to see if we can find anything about GW or GB through the FBI's FOIA/Privacy website? Their main page has a link about request instructions, a request form, etc.

Dr. Doogie
11-11-2008, 01:42 AM
Does anyone have the time or inclination to see if we can find anything about GW or GB through the FBI's FOIA/Privacy website? Their main page has a link about request instructions, a request form, etc.

I have already downloaded the forms to get GW's FBI file. The instructions about which form to use is very confusing on the FBI website - even the FBI spokesman I talked to admitted such. I can follow through and make the application.

Joe Ford
11-11-2008, 10:50 AM
I have already downloaded the forms to get GW's FBI file. The instructions about which form to use is very confusing on the FBI website - even the FBI spokesman I talked to admitted such. I can follow through and make the application.
How to use the Federal FOI Act (http://www.rcfp.org/foiact/index.html) This might help.

Jenny321
11-11-2008, 04:04 PM
This is my first time posting here and I'm trying to see if it works.

Jenny321
11-11-2008, 04:17 PM
Okay, that worked! There is a girl that I have come in contact with a few times that bears a strong resemblance to one of the photos I've seen of Anna. My dilemna is that I have no idea how to approach her without coming off as a total fruitcake. I've had very little opportunity to talk with her and have no idea if she is adopted. I have found out that her mother lives nearby and that she has children. I asked to see a photo of the kids but she didn't have one on her and I haven't been able to talk to her since. She sometimes hangs out at a place that I frequent and I definitely don't want this group of people to label me as a nut so I'm not going to just come out and ask her. Anyone have any ideas ?

Annasmom
11-11-2008, 04:25 PM
Okay, that worked! There is a girl that I have come in contact with a few times that bears a strong resemblance to one of the photos I've seen of Anna. My dilemna is that I have no idea how to approach her without coming off as a total fruitcake. I've had very little opportunity to talk with her and have no idea if she is adopted. I have found out that her mother lives nearby and that she has children. I asked to see a photo of the kids but she didn't have one on her and I haven't been able to talk to her since. She sometimes hangs out at a place that I frequent and I definitely don't want this group of people to label me as a nut so I'm not going to just come out and ask her. Anyone have any ideas ?
Why don't you just print out the first page of www.searchingforanna.com, tell her you're interested in the search, and ask her to keep her eyes open for any likely candidates? That way you don't have to suggest any connection, but the material will get to her.

Jenny321
11-11-2008, 04:54 PM
Annasmom, that was a good suggestion and I actually was carrying one around with me for a while but was too embarrassed to show it to anyone. I did manage to take a picture of her at a cookout we were both at this past summer. I compared it to the age progression photo and think it looks similar enough but haven't shown it to anyone yet.
After reading on this site for a while I got the brilliant idea that if I go the the library I could probably find her high school yearbook. This would give me a better idea of what year she graduated and how she looked then. I'm going to go on Thursday.

SideKick
11-11-2008, 04:59 PM
Why don't you just print out the first page of www.searchingforanna.com, tell her you're interested in the search, and ask her to keep her eyes open for any likely candidates? That way you don't have to suggest any connection, but the material will get to her.

Excellent Annasmom,

How many times I've told people out of the blue I'm interested in this search, no one has ever questioned my sanity...rather asked me more about Anna!

You can print the page and casually approach this woman. May I ask what part of the country you live? Thanks again for your interest!

SideKick
11-11-2008, 05:02 PM
Annasmom, that was a good suggestion and I actually was carrying one around with me for a while but was too embarrassed to show it to anyone. I did manage to take a picture of her at a cookout we were both at this past summer. I compared it to the age progression photo and think it looks similar enough but haven't shown it to anyone yet.
After reading on this site for a while I got the brilliant idea that if I go the the library I could probably find her high school yearbook. This would give me a better idea of what year she graduated and how she looked then. I'm going to go on Thursday.

Jenny,

Do you still have the photo of her? Did you want to send it me to post? Or if you like please send it to my email address.
Only if you are comfortable doing so...

SideKick ~

MagicRose99
11-11-2008, 05:13 PM
Jenny,

Do you still have the photo of her? Did you want to send it me to post? Or if you like please send it to my email address. planetbabyblue@hotmail.com
Only if you are comfortable doing so...

SideKick ~

I wouldn't just post someone's pic here... if anything, forward it to Doogie or Annasmom and see what they think...

SideKick
11-11-2008, 05:16 PM
I wouldn't just post someone's pic here... if anything, forward it to Doogie or Annasmom and see what they think...

Thanks MagicRose,

You are absolutely right, I realized that after I wrote then mentioned my email addy which I would have then forwarded to Annasmom, Doogie or SherlockJr.

Good reminder for everyone,

SideKick ~

Jenny321
11-11-2008, 06:17 PM
I live in Massachusetts. I still have the photo and would definitely not want it to be posted under any circumstances. I would send it to someone to see if they too thought there was enough of a reason to pursue this. It may be just wishful thinking on my part. This story is so heartbreaking.

SherlockJr
11-11-2008, 06:21 PM
I live in Massachusetts. I still have the photo and would definitely not want it to be posted under any circumstances. I would send it to someone to see if they too thought there was enough of a reason to pursue this. It may be just wishful thinking on my part. This story is so heartbreaking.


Hmmm. Massachusetts? Interesting!

SideKick
11-11-2008, 06:37 PM
I live in Massachusetts. I still have the photo and would definitely not want it to be posted under any circumstances. I would send it to someone to see if they too thought there was enough of a reason to pursue this. It may be just wishful thinking on my part. This story is so heartbreaking.

Jenny,

Thank you very much for letting us know what area you are in. If you still want to send it to me, I can then send it to Annasmom or SherlockJr to have a look. No one will see the photo.. Wishful thinking is ok.

planetbabyblue@hotmail.com
SideKick ~

Jenny321
11-13-2008, 11:22 AM
Unfortunately, I showed the age enchanced photo to another party and they did not see enough of a resemblance. I guess our minds play tricks on us. You can remove your email address, Sidekick, because I saved it in case I need it in the future. I'll keep looking.

SideKick
11-13-2008, 11:29 AM
Unfortunately, I showed the age enchanced photo to another party and they did not see enough of a resemblance. I guess our minds play tricks on us. You can remove your email address, Sidekick, because I saved it in case I need it in the future. I'll keep looking.

Jenny I'm happy someone had a peek at the photo, this is the main thing! :)

Best to you Jenny,

SideKick~

Cubby
11-13-2008, 11:30 AM
Glad you tried Jenny. Do you happen to know the age of this person you thought resembled Anna? If you have a first and last name, along with City she lives in you can search her name at veromi.net and it will give you an age. One of the mothers of a classmate of my sons resembles Anna, however when I looked up her name it showed her age was only 34. Clearly too young to be Anna.

GL and keep looking!

SideKick
11-13-2008, 11:51 AM
Glad you tried Jenny. Do you happen to know the age of this person you thought resembled Anna? If you have a first and last name, along with City she lives in you can search her name at veromi.net and it will give you an age. One of the mothers of a classmate of my sons resembles Anna, however when I looked up her name it showed her age was only 34. Clearly too young to be Anna.

GL and keep looking!

Veromi is an excellent idea Cubby.
www.veromi.com (to verify ages)

.... also, just a thought here, having another member look at the photo (may also reconfirm the odds of her being Anna) Dr. Doogie is probably the person you should contact.

SK~

Cubby
11-13-2008, 12:00 PM
Veromi is an excellent idea Cubby.
www.veromi.com (http://www.veromi.com) (to verify ages)

.... also, just a thought here, having another member look at the photo (may also reconfirm the odds of her being Anna) Dr. Doogie is probably the person you should contact.

SK~


thanks SideKick. Veromi works for both .com and .net (may work for .org too, forget) Are those your grandbabies in your avatar? If so they are adorable!

Jenny321
11-21-2008, 12:21 PM
Annasmom, I believe you are a truly remarkable person. I admire you for your strength, your courage and your perseverance in your search for your missing daughter. You have found a wonderful support group in all of the people here who have gathered to help you in your search.
Your love for Anna shines through so clearly in your descriptions of her. How can anyone not be drawn to Anna when you see her pictures with her infectious smile? She was a beautiful little girl and I can easily understand how someone would want her for their very own. I sincerely hope that is what happened to her and that she was raised with as much love as you would have given her.

Annasmom
11-21-2008, 12:58 PM
Annasmom, I believe you are a truly remarkable person. I admire you for your strength, your courage and your perseverance in your search for your missing daughter. You have found a wonderful support group in all of the people here who have gathered to help you in your search.
Your love for Anna shines through so clearly in your descriptions of her. How can anyone not be drawn to Anna when you see her pictures with her infectious smile? She was a beautiful little girl and I can easily understand how someone would want her for their very own. I sincerely hope that is what happened to her and that she was raised with as much love as you would have given her.
Jenny321, you've made my day! Thank you so much for such a positive point of view.

Annasmom
11-28-2008, 08:10 PM
Some of you may have seen Anna's Facebook page, which has been getting some attention. One Facebook member now wants to put our links up on two other websites with which she is involved. I hope you all are having a relaxing holiday weekend!

Cubby
12-01-2008, 09:09 PM
I hope everyone had a wonderful Thanksgiving weekend.

I wanted to update on something I have been working on and passed the info along to Sherlock JR. We've known of this for sometime but really haven't had much success in locating any contacts or anything to rule in this person or rule her out as Anna. Her initials are NB or NT depending on her current legal name. Her birth date is about 7.5 mo's later than Anna's and her birth cert showed a fathers name matching Margaret K's last name. I've never been able to determine his first name and I don't know of any other K's in CA around that time. It apears she was born to a single mother and sometime later adopted by her mothers husband. It appears they married before Anna went missing and dv'd afterwards. We really have no way to tie her into Anna other than the last name standing out. And no way to determine when her step father adopted her. (that would make things so much simpler if the adoption occured before Anna went missing, but then again, could GW have faked the adoption date too?!) We have found one document indicating this gal has blue eyes, but nothing to verify that as of yet. We did find a contact for an old associate of hers who knew her about a decade ago. We're taking it from there.... I'm hoping one way or another we can rule her in or out....

I should add: I have no way of determining any connection between the woman listed as her birth mom and either GW or GB. The bc lists Los Angeles... I've always wondered if GW had access to faking BC's through working at a hospital.

I know the forum has been slow, but I wanted to let everyone know things are still happening.

IF anyone wants to help by having another set of eyes searching.. Some of you are much better searchers than I. Please pm me and I will give the info I have. I am having comp probs, so if you don't here back from me, I sometimes can not access WS. (not having probs with other site) PM Annasmom or Sherlock JR who can then reach me as Sherlock has my tele.

ETA: Sherlock, if you think this is TMI to have on the forum please let me know and I will edit or ask a mod to edit if it is beyond the 24 hours allowed to modify a post. I wasn't sure since she has been known of, but not posted previously.

DewSeeker
12-06-2008, 04:02 AM
I'm very new to the forum but I had an idea hit me a few minutes ago and even though I think it was probably looked into, I feel like I should put it out there. I read that GW put A.C.E in the memo of his child support checks, standing for Anna Christian Eifee. That really stood out to me. It occured to me that maybe GB had convinced him that Eifee was a better last name and that the Waters should be dropped. If that was the case, then this is possibly his "real" surname. Because he was called "Bobby" by the woman, I did just a precursory search for Robert Eifee that was interesting, but because I don't have much info I didn't know if it was good info or not. One other idea I have is that "Eifee" was GB's mothers first name.

Cubby
12-06-2008, 01:12 PM
I'm very new to the forum but I had an idea hit me a few minutes ago and even though I think it was probably looked into, I feel like I should put it out there. I read that GW put A.C.E in the memo of his child support checks, standing for Anna Christian Effie. That really stood out to me. It occured to me that maybe GB had convinced him that Effie was a better last name and that the Waters should be dropped. If that was the case, then this is possibly his "real" surname. Because he was called "Bobby" by the woman, I did just a precursory search for Robert Effie that was interesting, but because I don't have much info I didn't know if it was good info or not. One other idea I have is that "Effie" was GB's mothers first name.


Thank you and welcome DewSeeker, always good to have another set of eyes here. We have done some extensive research into Eifee- how it was spelled on the bc- and Annasmom believes it is nothing more than a nonsense name.

I've always thought it was an abbv/spelling for earned income fee... but there is really no ryhyme or reason for that either.

DewSeeker
12-06-2008, 11:29 PM
Hmmm. Never thought it might be an abbv. I'm gonna think on that.

ETA: When I actually spelled it right and did another search I got zip lol.

Cubby
12-07-2008, 10:59 PM
Did George Waters have any connections with any military hospitals in the San Diego or Los Angeles area's?

Cubby
12-07-2008, 11:02 PM
Raf,
Need some of your help with some genealogy/obit info for the Kukoda family. Some of it is posted here within Anna's forum. I can not copy links due to computer probs so bear with me.

Page 2 of this forum under the thread titled Searching for Anna ( which is now locked) page 18 post starting with post 440. There is some obits and info posted.

There is a member of the K family I am trying to determine if they are from the same branch as MK.

Will send full names etc. via pm to you.

Thank you!

Cubby

raf
12-08-2008, 06:49 AM
hi cubby, I'm here; I replied to you by private message with search... with all data; if you wish you can post the data... hugs, raf

raf
12-08-2008, 05:01 PM
after the search abt the person that Cubby are searching for (infos sent by pm), I made a better search abt Margaret Kukoda family, and I think that I found some other data; I hope that this infos are no a duplicate post, because I read not all postings here...:

Anthony Kukoda 16 Apr 1874 ; birth town: Szápár HU- ( imm 1899 by census.. no imm. in Mar 08, 1900 as Antal Kukoda born in Szápár, HU; single; joining at brother in Richmond, NY; in 1900 census ( june 1900)was servant in Richmond- NY as Anton Kukada but seeming born the jun 1876; I’m pretty sure that the ship’s manifest is right and he was born in 1874; death: 1950 abt; spouse: Ester Boeculat Kukoda b. 1885 abt -Hungary; imm 1899( no sure, she immigrated later); daughter of Susanna Boeculat widow, born in Hungary 1850 circa ( or Buchhalter/ Boeniat spell? imm in 1905); home in 1910 Garfield, NJ; 1918: Phillipburg, NJ; 1920 Harmony, NJ; 1930 Pennsylvania ( we already know ).
10 CHILDREN:

Anthony Kukoda b. 1905 NJ-in 1930, single in Detroit, MI with Paul brother

Anna Kukoda b.1906 NJ

Stephen Kukoda b. 23 Nov 1907 NJ- d. Oct 1979 Riegelsville, Bucks, Pennsylvania

Paul Kukoda b.1910 NJ; in the 1930 single, living with Anthony in Detroit, MI

Joseph Kukoda b.10 May 1911 NJ- 15 Mar 1991 Charlotte FL ; spouse: Mary… ( b.18 Sep 1907- d.20 Dec 1990 Charlotte, FL

Frank Kukoda b. 1914 NJ- d. 11 /8/1988( spouse: Myrtle M.: birth 1917) both buried WEST HUNTERDON COUNTY, NEW JERSEY-

Michael Kukoda b. 7 Sep 1915 NJ- 25 Mar 1995 Harlingen, Cameron, Texas; spouse: Cynthia Ann Prechtl (but needing more search)

Margaret Kukoda b. 1917 NJ ( we know all)

John J Kukoda b. 1919/1920 NJ

Madaline Kukoda b. 1922 NJ

some bride's name is no sure, but the names of Anthony and Ester Kukoda children are all, almost until 1930...
I know not the Anthony Kukoda 's brother name in Richmond; maybe could be interesting find it... best regards,
raf

Annasmom
12-08-2008, 05:53 PM
Did George Waters have any connections with any military hospitals in the San Diego or Los Angeles area's?

Not that I know of.

KivaSupporter
12-08-2008, 06:31 PM
Was Margaret in the Navy?

Annasmom
12-08-2008, 10:20 PM
Was Margaret in the Navy?
Hi, KivaSupporter! I missed you! I believe Margaret was a Navy nurse and that she worked at Letterman Hospital in San Francisco. Doogie, who has a better memory than I do, may be able to confirm this.

KivaSupporter
12-08-2008, 11:20 PM
Raf,
Need some of your help with some genealogy/obit info for the Kukoda family. Some of it is posted here within Anna's forum. I can not copy links due to computer probs so bear with me.

Page 2 of this forum under the thread titled Searching for Anna ( which is now locked) page 18 post starting with post 440. There is some obits and info posted.

There is a member of the K family I am trying to determine if they are from the same branch as MK.

Will send full names etc. via pm to you.

Thank you!

Cubby


They are from the same branch.

KivaSupporter
12-08-2008, 11:23 PM
after the search abt the person that Cubby are searching for (infos sent by pm), I made a better search abt Margaret Kukoda family, and I think that I found some other data; I hope that this infos are no a duplicate post, because I read not all postings here...:

Anthony Kukoda 16 Apr 1874 ; birth town: Szápár HU- ( imm 1899 by census.. no imm. in Mar 08, 1900 as Antal Kukoda born in Szápár, HU; single; joining at brother in Richmond, NY; in 1900 census ( june 1900)was servant in Richmond- NY as Anton Kukada but seeming born the jun 1876; I’m pretty sure that the ship’s manifest is right and he was born in 1874; death: 1950 abt; spouse: Ester Boeculat Kukoda b. 1885 abt -Hungary; imm 1899( no sure, she immigrated later); daughter of Susanna Boeculat widow, born in Hungary 1850 circa ( or Buchhalter/ Boeniat spell? imm in 1905); home in 1910 Garfield, NJ; 1918: Phillipburg, NJ; 1920 Harmony, NJ; 1930 Pennsylvania ( we already know ).
10 CHILDREN:

Anthony Kukoda b. 1905 NJ-in 1930, single in Detroit, MI with Paul brother

Anna Kukoda b.1906 NJ

Stephen Kukoda b. 23 Nov 1907 NJ- d. Oct 1979 Riegelsville, Bucks, Pennsylvania

Paul Kukoda b.1910 NJ; in the 1930 single, living with Anthony in Detroit, MI

Joseph Kukoda b.10 May 1911 NJ- 15 Mar 1991 Charlotte FL ; spouse: Mary… ( b.18 Sep 1907- d.20 Dec 1990 Charlotte, FL

Frank Kukoda b. 1914 NJ- d. 11 /8/1988( spouse: Myrtle M.: birth 1917) both buried WEST HUNTERDON COUNTY, NEW JERSEY-

Michael Kukoda b. 7 Sep 1915 NJ- 25 Mar 1995 Harlingen, Cameron, Texas; spouse: Cynthia Ann Prechtl (but needing more search)

Margaret Kukoda b. 1917 NJ ( we know all)

John J Kukoda b. 1919/1920 NJ

Madaline Kukoda b. 1922 NJ

some bride's name is no sure, but the names of Anthony and Ester Kukoda children are all, almost until 1930...
I know not the Anthony Kukoda 's brother name in Richmond; maybe could be interesting find it... best regards,
raf

Hi Raf,

Did the records show if any of M's siblings had children?

Thanks.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
12-08-2008, 11:31 PM
Please pardon me if this question has been asked repeatedly, it has been a long time since I have read all of Anna's threads. If I remember correctly, Annasmom is an accomplished pianist, how possible is it that Anna would be to? Did she take lessons or show any great interest in the piano? I keep getting one of those feelings that she closer than we think...

It has been very hectic at home, and I have been avoiding the computer so that I can get things done, but Anna is never far from my mind. I have several of her pictures in my screen saver slide show and when I see her I say a little prayer that she is happy and safe.

iNTERESTEDWOMAN
12-08-2008, 11:35 PM
Hi Raf,

Did the records show if any of M's siblings had children?

Thanks.

Yes MK had many nieces and nephews. I have her entire family tree written down somewhere. I wish I had time to find it, but i have a mess after moving my home office to another location in the house.

KivaSupporter
12-08-2008, 11:38 PM
Yes MK had many nieces and nephews. I have her entire family tree written down somewhere. I wish I had time to find it, but i have a mess after moving my home office to another location in the house.

Do you remember where you got the information? Could you please point me in the right direction? I am especially interested in nephews.

Thank you.

Cubby
12-09-2008, 01:48 AM
They are from the same branch.

I don't think so. The info raf sent me... we have two Joseph Kukoda's.... the one Margaret is related to- her brother-father Anthony.

This other Joseph is the son of James.... James is the grandfather of the Kukoda we are talking about.

It is possible James and Anthony are brothers, raf indicated Anthony was here with a brother but did not have his name.

raf
12-09-2008, 01:50 AM
Hi Raf,

Did the records show if any of M's siblings had children?

Thanks.
Yes Kivasupporter, as I know... but the person that Cubby are searching for, it is of another different family, completely, also if him ancestor coming from same hungarian area ...
regards,
raf