PA-Boy in the Box/America's Unknown Child

[christine2448]

I am new here and did a search for this case and couldn't find anything...forgive me if there is a reference here and I couldn't find it.

Anyone familiar with this case?

The website (listed below) has soooooo much information, it took me a couple of days to read it all!

Here is a link to the website http://americasunknownchild.net (http://americasunknownchild.net/)



Edit:
I admit I hadn't fully read the forum rules, I apologize, and I had posted the whole front page of the webpage here at first...I came back and took it off and just put the link...I have gone and read through all of the rules and will follow :)

[2sisters]

I have been curious about this case for a while, I'm glad someone posted about it, hopefully someone will have some info on it. It seems like there will never be an answer. It is a sad story.

[blueclouds]

God. This case should be possible to resolve. I STILL think it has something to do with the foster home nearby where his body was found. If he has / had siblings, they'd only be late 50's or early 60's. Little man. No little baby deserves to be left in a box, beaten and all. How can people live with themselves? :( :(

[Sherlock]

This is so sad! I'm reading it but had to stop for a while once I saw the photos of that poor boy!

I could cry.

They couldn't tell from the boy's body/autopsy if he was beaten to death?

[christine2448]

God. This case should be possible to resolve. I STILL think it has something to do with the foster home nearby where his body was found. If he has / had siblings, they'd only be late 50's or early 60's. Little man. No little baby deserves to be left in a box, beaten and all. How can people live with themselves? :( :(Good points IMO, I posted this with hopes someone would know something. It's amazing the people that read these, you just never know. This case has haunted me for sometime. I think someone out there has info. I just pray they happen to come across this site or the actual site of The Boy in the Box.

I think one of the biggest clues is the box he was found in, if I remember correctly it was a bassett.

[smile22]

dont foster homes have reccords of all the children that were in the homes. dont they have records from back then on file somewhere that they can compare to the boy in the box?

[gatetrekker44]

about this case-a retired detective who is part of a group of retired LE personnel who "work" cold cases believes he may have ID'd this child(it was in the Nov 2003 issue). What this gentleman discovered was that the child had been given to a mentally unstable woman who supposedly was responsible for his death. He had located this woman's biological daughter, who even though has her own mental health issues, recounted the story of how her mother came to have the boy and how in a fit of rage, killed him.
Here is a link to the most recent info I could find(I'm originally from Philly, so this case has always had a special place in my heart!!)



http://www.northeasttimes.com/2003/1120/boyinbox.html

[blueclouds]

about this case-a retired detective who is part of a group of retired LE personnel who "work" cold cases believes he may have ID'd this child(it was in the Nov 2003 issue). What this gentleman discovered was that the child had been given to a mentally unstable woman who supposedly was responsible for his death. He had located this woman's biological daughter, who even though has her own mental health issues, recounted the story of how her mother came to have the boy and how in a fit of rage, killed him.
Here is a link to the most recent info I could find(I'm originally from Philly, so this case has always had a special place in my heart!!)



http://www.northeasttimes.com/2003/1120/boyinbox.html

I recall that too. However, and I don't have the info handy - this was possibly debunked. There were several reasons her story never quite fit. About a year ago, I was in contact with one of the investigators of this little boy in the box - and they don't quite believe it was this child for many reasons. HOWEVER... THEY'RE still trying to verify her story. That's why, on the site - they first question whether anyone KNEW a child named Jonathan.

I wish there was an ending. Little man. I'm glad he became so loved in his death though. Hopefully he can feel that love from Heaven.


Here's an update from the site regarding this woman:
September 2004: During the past year, Vidocq Society investigators located and interviewed additional people who used to live in the Lower Merion neighborhorhood where, according to the unsubstantiated testimony of an Ohio woman, the unknown boy was secretly confined in a basement and subjected to physical and sexual abuse for two years prior to his death. Two of the former neighbors had been frequent visitors to the home, and they had access to all areas, including the basement. They flatly denied that a young boy lived there. A female neighbor who had been a close friend of the family and attended the same church, said that she was astonished to learn of the false accusations being made against them. She stated that the Ohio woman's allegations are "preposterous." The Vidocq Society investigators believe they have now exhausted all investigative options relative to the Ohio lead. Sadly, what had initially appeared to be the most significant breakthrough in the long history of this investigation, has ultimately turned out to be just another frustrating dead end."


"

[Paradise]

The thing I don't understand is where the man with the specially made hat comes in. Could it have been his father? A worker at the foster home? The hatmaker remembered the man who came in to buy the hat but couldn't give very many details on him. Anyone have any thoughts?

[Richard]

dont foster homes have reccords of all the children that were in the homes. dont they have records from back then on file somewhere that they can compare to the boy in the box?
Although each state has its own laws governing the foster care system, in all cases it is regulated (usually on the county government level) by a Child Protective/Welfare department. Foster homes are licensed through them and foster parents are required to be screened by social workers. Each child who enters a foster home is assigned there by the state or county, and it is the state or county which holds all the records on the child. There are also requirements for social workers to visit or meet with the child - and with the foster parents - on a regular basis.

Foster homes are required to submit reports and maintain records while the child resides with them, and while they are licensed, and during the time that they are active, they might be requested to provide certain records. Those records, however, usually relate to expenses, medical visits, school grades etc, and copies would normally be submitted to the County officials. While an individual foster parent might keep his or her own records for many years after having the child, I doubt that any such requirement exists anywhere.

Generally speaking, although there certainly are abuses and laxness in the system, Foster children are better regulated and accounted for than individual children not in foster care. The little boy found in the box was a victim of long time abuse, prior to his death. If there had been any kind of Foster Care assignment or records on him, I would think that those would have come to light early on in the investigation.

[2sisters]

I was reading on the America's unknown child website and they are looking for doctors from the Philadelphia area who may remember giving medical treatment to this boy in the early 1950's. Would it be possible to send a letter out to all doctor's who practiced in that area in the time frame asking about it? There could be someone who did remember but has no knowledge of the case. The chances of a doctor remembering this many years later are slim but you never know.

[PonderingThings]

If there was a doctor, who was practicing in the 1950s he/she would have had to be at least, at a minimum, what... 25?

Which means they would be, at a minimum, 71-80 yrs old today (or thereabouts). Most likely retired...

Perhaps an article(s) in various medical association newsletters would be more applicable? Nurses associations too?

[Richard]

I was reading on the America's unknown child website and they are looking for doctors from the Philadelphia area who may remember giving medical treatment to this boy in the early 1950's. Would it be possible to send a letter out to all doctor's who practiced in that area in the time frame asking about it? There could be someone who did remember but has no knowledge of the case. The chances of a doctor remembering this many years later are slim but you never know.
The American Medical Association used to print directories of Doctors, and older copies of their publications might still exist in some libraries. Advertisment of medical skills was usually not done back in the 1950's, but phone directories and AMA directories might yield a list of potential MD's and pediatricians of that place and time.

[gardenmom]

If there was a doctor, who was practicing in the 1950s he/she would have had to be at least, at a minimum, what... 25?

Which means they would be, at a minimum, 71-80 yrs old today (or thereabouts). Most likely retired...

Perhaps an article(s) in various medical association newsletters would be more applicable? Nurses associations too?
Retired or deceased. Unfortunately, this happens the older a case gets.

[Paradise]

This is so sad! I'm reading it but had to stop for a while once I saw the photos of that poor boy!

I could cry.

They couldn't tell from the boy's body/autopsy if he was beaten to death?I know this is off-topic but your sig makes me laugh my butt off everytime I see it.

[christine2448]

Thought I'd bump this, maybe some fresh eyes could see :)

[anthrobones]

bumping up post

[2sisters]

Just bumping this little guy up. I have looked at his autopsy photos and can't belive that someone could do that to their child. His life must have been awful.

[2sisters]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/07/06/48hours/main627825.shtml

[mel36]

What surprises me and I hope to raise the thoughts of others on this subject is the fact that when the police and investigators went around and questioned the Orphanages and the Foster Homes, the question was "are their any missing children from this (orphanage or home)? well if some body killed the little boy from one of those places I don't believe that they would be so forth comming with and missing children information, their was a St Josephs Catholic Orphanage I believe that was in that area I wonder if through the years and with other investigators if they have never executed a search warrent for batismal records medical records or some kind of roll count from during that year as to how many children were their and if they could all be accounted for, it seems to me that the investigators previouse and new have put so much time and effort into this case it would be a shame to leave even one stone unturned, just my thoughts. :twocents:

[Pandora]

What surprises me and I hope to raise the thoughts of others on this subject is the fact that when the police and investigators went around and questioned the Orphanages and the Foster Homes, the question was "are their any missing children from this (orphanage or home)? well if some body killed the little boy from one of those places I don't believe that they would be so forth comming with and missing children information, their was a St Josephs Catholic Orphanage I believe that was in that area I wonder if through the years and with other investigators if they have never executed a search warrent for batismal records medical records or some kind of roll count from during that year as to how many children were their and if they could all be accounted for, it seems to me that the investigators previouse and new have put so much time and effort into this case it would be a shame to leave even one stone unturned, just my thoughts. :twocents:
EXACTLY RIGHT mel36!!!
When we sent our inspection teams to foreign prisons/encampments to search for MIAS/POWS from VietNam all they did was look at the rolls!!! WTH didn't they walk up and down the tiers hollering, "Is anyone here American?" SERIOUSLY! The powers that be always seem willing to take the word of those who would be investigated and prosecuted if the child/person were found. What gives?!?!

[docwho3]

EXACTLY RIGHT mel36!!!
When we sent our inspection teams to foreign prisons/encampments to search for MIAS/POWS from VietNam all they did was look at the rolls!!! WTH didn't they walk up and down the tiers hollering, "Is anyone here American?" SERIOUSLY! The powers that be always seem willing to take the word of those who would be investigated and prosecuted if the child/person were found. What gives?!?! My response is not exactly important to the case.
I just wanted to mention that when I saw this case title, which has to do with a box and then saw that the most recent post was from a user named pandora I just had to smile.

[2sisters]

My response is not exactly important to the case.
I just wanted to mention that when I saw this case title, which has to do with a box and then saw that the most recent post was from a user named pandora I just had to smile.Lol!
As ugguestion about the orphanage. They investigators went through the records I am sure, but who to say some records werent destroyed by the orphanage first. Sorry, but orphanages aren't know for being rainbows and baskets of puppies. Shouldn't the county have records of all kids living there? to me he jus thas to be from the children's home. i wonder did the investigators talk to kids at the home? weould they have been any help or too scared to talk?

[Richard]

Here is what the Doe Network has in its files on the little boy...

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Unidentified White Male
Body found in a cardboard box off Susquehanna Road in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on February 25, 1957
The child was severly beaten and bruised.

Vital Statistics

Estimated age: 4-6 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 40 1/2 inches; 30 pounds

Distinguishing Characteristics: He had blue eyes and pale skin. His hair was medium to light brown, or blond in color, and was trimmed in an odd, bowl-shaped haircut. There were seven scars on the body, three of which could have resulted from surgical procedures. Two of these "surgical" scars were on the chest and groin. They had healed quite well, leaving only a hair-line trace. There was also a scar on the boy's left ankle, which looked like a "cut-down" incision. Such an incision is made to expose a vein so that a needle may be inserted to give an infusion or transfusion. There was a 1 1/2 - inch scar on the left side of the chest, and a round, irregular scar on the left elbow. On the chin was an L-shaped scar - a quarter of an inch long in each direction. There was no vaccination scar. The boy had been circumcised. He had several small moles on his body, including three on the left side of his face; one below his right ear; three on his chest; and one on his right arm, two inches above his wrist.

Dentals: The boy had a full set of baby teeth, and was also slightly buck-toothed.

Clothing: A tan child's scarf and a boy's yellow flannel shirt were also recovered at the scene. Investigators determined that the size four shirt matched the child's size at the time of his homicide. A child's pair of black shoes were also located; however, they did not fit the unidentified boy. An Ivy League style cap made of blue corduroy was also found near the box; the hat had a leather strap and buckle across the back. It was determined that the cap was made in a south Philadelphia shop; the store owner recalled that a man between the ages of 26 - 30 made the purchase. He did not speak with an accent. The purchaser was never identified.
Case History

This case has baffled the public for more than 42 years. The boy, now referred to as "America's Unknown Child" or "The Boy In The Box," has never been identified -- many leads have been followed, but proved futile.

The child's unclothed body was placed inside a cardboard box and deposited at a garbage-filled locale on Susquehanna Road in Philadelphia in February 1957. His body was beaten, although coroners' investigations were unable to pinpoint any previous broken bones or inflicted trauma. The child's nails were recently trimmed. The palm of his right hand and the soles of his feet were rough and wrinkled, indicating that the limbs had been submerged in water prior or shortly after his death. Strands of the child's own hair were present on his body, leading authorities to believe that his hair had been cut shortly before or following his homicide.

The boy was wrapped in a large piece of an inexpensive, well-worn blanket with a faded design of diamonds and blocks in green, rust-colored red, brown and white. An additional piece of the blanket was found inside the box, which was smeared with automotive grease. The third piece of the blanket remains missing.

The box which contained the child's body was from JC Penney's in Upper Darby, Pennsylvania and had been used for a white bassinette. Records were unable to pinpoint the purchaser of the item.

Below link contains a photos of the box that the victim was found in and Artist Reconstructions of the little boy.

This case has been re-opened and closed many times in over 40 years. The boy's remains were exhumed in the late 90's for DNA testing; he was then reinterred into a tomb marked "America's Unknown Child" in Philadelphia. Recently, The Vidocq Society, an assembly of esteemed detectives and forensic examiners, has taken up the case.

A long strand of brown hair -- identified as being from someone else, not the child -- was removed from the scene. In addition, a man's handkerchief with the initial "G" was located near the box. Short stands of hair were present on the material and were tested to determine if the hair came from the unidentified boy; the results of the tests are unknown.

A forensic artist created an image which may possibly reflect what the boy's father may have looked like, as seen in below link. (Courtesy of America's Most Wanted)

Update: Fall of 2000 -- An independent laboratory was able to obtain a a mitochondrial DNA profile from the boy's teeth. His remains were badly deteriorated and it was a last chance effort after failing to lift any other type of DNA.

Update: May of 2002 -- Investigators received a phone call from a psychiatrist who said that a patient of her's, named Martha, knew who the little boy was. Martha said that in 1955, when she was 11, her librarian mother drove her to a home, where she picked the boy up in exchange for an envelope which she assumed contained money. The child, called Jonathan, then came to live with them in their Philadelphia home. There, he was raised in squalor in the basement, with a drain for a bathroom and a makeshift bed amid coal bins and discarded cardboard cartons. Martha claimed that her mother regularly sexually abused her and had purchased the child to do the same to him.

The boy's death, Martha claimed, eventually came when her mother, in a fit of rage, slammed him down on the floor after he vomited in the tub. That day, her mother drove her into Philadelphia to dump the child.

Investigator Tom Augustine was amazed, but skeptical. "This is the best lead we've ever had on this case," he explained. "But until we have proof that [the boy] is who she says he is, she can talk all day long — we're not closing it."

Investigators
If you have any information as to the identity of this boy or the circumstances of his death, please contact:

Philadelphia Police Department
Homicide Division
215-686-3334

You may remain anonymous if you wish.

Source Information:
America's Unknown Child: The Boy In The Box Mystery
America's Most Wanted
Court TV
The Doe Network: Case File 4UMPA

LINK:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/4umpa.html

[2sisters]

If this case were givien more publicity I wonder if a kid from the home might come forward 50 years later.

[reb]

you know this kid might have never seen the light of day, or the few people who saw him might not remember or be dead by now, and the parents might not have had any other kids... there might have even just been one parent as the father maybe never even knew... so if the parent/s are long gone by now then there might be no one left alive who even knew about him. i honestly think as far as this case goes, that at this point we'll never know.
forgive me if this has been discussed, but it's possible this kid was the result of a nun & priest 'having communion' together.. i used to know a mother & daughter who had an antique store that was once a convent, and they said when they renovated the basement the workers found baby skeletons (or was it fetus skeletons??) down there. is that creepy (and sad) or what????? so.. i know these kinds of things went on... maybe this kid was kept hidden somewhere and he could have died from anything- some kind of disease or epidemic, malnutrition, & his parents were destitute and couldn't afford a funeral.. another possibility- there could have been a home for the disabled, retarded or blind, or an insane asylum-- and i know there were lots of unwanted pregnanices in places like these. what happened to all these children (that were born)? how he made it to the age he was was unusual though. also maybe he was retarded, autistic or disabled himself.. he may have also been a child of rape. maybe his mother was infirmed or never wanted to have him in the first place (esp if she had been raped).

[2sisters]

Is there any thing from an autospy that could point to mental retardation. Some kind of bone formation, head shape, etc?

[reb]

he also could have been the only (or the first) child to a couple, or a mother (if the father was not in the picture)-- and the couple or mother could have told others later on, that she had a child years ago but it died... and no one thought anything of it. the question of how the child lived to be that old w/o anyone noticing or remembering him points to 2 things- (as said before)- he never saw the light of day or was hidden (this to me points to: 1-poverty, 2-shame of 'illicit' pregnancy due to status, religion or rape; or 3-retardation) or whoever had him moved around a lot.

[Boyz_Mum]

Below are two links to stories about the "boy in the box". This case has intrigued me for years.

http://boyinthebox.bravehost.com/updates.htm
http://americasunknownchild.net/default.htm

[mel36]

I believe this story has been on the show Unsolved Mysteries and it was also featured on an crime show I think the show was CSI or simular to that, I also believe that AMW featured this story but I could be mistaken I also believe that more attention needs to be focused on the care takers at the childrens homes as well just because of the hat that was found at the scene the people who made it said that it was only one in 12 made like that and that particular hat she remembers because the man asked if she could put a strap on it, like I said someone has to remember something and kids pay attention to details "like hats" its a small piece of info but I am wondering if the person that wore that hat was just nasty enough to be remembered by a kid. Details like colors, smells and objects I think are remembered when they are associated with a possible bad memory, because anybody that would dump the body of a little boy or even help to dump the body could not have had that great of a personality. These people may be all but gone that did this but the fact remains in my mind that this little guy still deserves justice as would anybody.

[blaize]

This is such a sad story. I remember coming across it on the web and looking at the sketchs that were released of the little lad and thinking that tme was slipping away as many of the people in that area and possibly the perpatrator/s could be dead by now.

Did anyone see the episode of Cold Case based on this story?

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
I feel they will find thier answers with the Horsham suspects.

http://www.americasunknownchild.net/Archives5Text.html#fourq

http://www.americasunknownchild.net/Archives7Text.html#momq


http://americasunknownchild.net/Archives1Text.html#CSIBM

In the article mother of 9 quizzed,she was questioned bacause she looked like the lady near the car that was seen near the area of where the boy in the box was found.If you look closely she resembles the Horsham suspect lady.There is a boy in the Horsham suspect picture the may resemble the couple found near (lady and boy)the car near the area where the boy in the box was found.

I feel the boy died getting his hair cut in the bath.He was fighting because he did not want his hair cut.I believe the autopsy said no old bruises?Did he change care takers or was he visiting someone.



suzanne

[2sisters]

Hey Suzanne, Good to see you back here!
I thought the bruises were a mix of old and new but the haircut bruises were new, I think thatts how they knew he had his hair cut recently.

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Hey.How are you?I'm not sure about the bruises.I was kind of confused about that.I thought they said the bruises were all inflicted at the same time.I don't know.I'll have to go try and find it.I really felt sorry for this little boy.I hope and pray they find out who he is through DNA somewhere.God is holding him now and taking care of him now.

suzanne

[christine2448]

Hi
Hey.How are you?I'm not sure about the bruises.I was kind of confused about that.I thought they said the bruises were all inflicted at the same time.I don't know.I'll have to go try and find it.I really felt sorry for this little boy.I hope and pray they find out who he is through DNA somewhere.God is holding him now and taking care of him now.

suzanne
Hiya, this is all I could find doing a quick look over at the case summary:

There were many bruises all over the child's body; particularly on the head and face. All of the bruises appeared to have been inflicted at the same time.

http://americasunknownchild.net/summary.htm

[christine2448]

Was reading the timeline, and I'm confused, I had always thought/assumed, the bassinett box was discarded w/the little boys body, this states otherwise, did anyone else catch this and/or assume as I did??

To summarize, the sequence of events may have been as follows:

1. Monday, February 11, 1957 - Fred Benonis' initial visit to the Susquehanna Road site. He did not see the J.C. Penney bassinet carton or the boy's body at that time.

2. Late February 1957 (specific date unknown, but probably not more than a few days prior to February 23rd) - The empty J.C. Penney bassinet carton was discarded at the site by person(s) unknown. The blue cap was probably left at the site at about the same time.

3. Saturday, February 23, 1957 (a.m.) - Alleged death of the unknown boy in Lower Merion, PA.

4. Saturday, February 23, 1957 (5 - 5:30 p.m.) - The body of the unknown boy was allegedly disposed of at the Susquehanna Road site by "M" and her mother. A male motorist reportedly witnessed them at the scene as they were preparing to remove the boy's body from the trunk of their car.

5. Sunday, February 24, 1957 (1:30 p.m.) - John Powroznik discovered the boy's body while returning home from a basketball game. He did not mention this incident to anyone.

6. Monday, February 25, 1957 (3:15 p.m.) - Fred Benonis returned to the Susquehanna Road site and discovered the body.

7. Tuesday, February 26, 1957 (10:10 a.m.) - Fred Benonis reported his discovery to the Philadelphia police department. Police officers arrived at the scene by 10:40 a.m.

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
If the bruises were inflicted at the same time.That tells me there were not other bruises mentioned in different stages of healing.I don't think they mentioned older bruises.I feel he was beat on the legs as discipline to try and give him a haircut and he fought getting one.There could have been two people trying to give him this hair cut.the bruises inflicted at the same time I feel tells me he was not beat before at least not on a regular basis.I feel he may have changed caretakers or was visiting someone.

suzanne

[christine2448]

Hi
If the bruises were inflicted at the same time.That tells me there were not other bruises mentioned in different stages of healing.I don't think they mentioned older bruises.I feel he was beat on the legs as discipline to try and give him a haircut and he fought getting one.There could have been two people trying to give him this hair cut.the bruises inflicted at the same time I feel tells me he was not beat before at least not on a regular basis.I feel he may have changed caretakers or was visiting someone.

suzanneI think someone else may have also mentioned this, but, one o f my 1st theories was he did as a lot of kids do and gave himself a haircut and this lead to the beating that resulted in his death, but, after rereading, it appeared he was nude when his hair was cut, so that doesn't line up with me that he was the one who cut his hair. What you are saying makes more sense to me.

[mel36]

I was doing some research and found an article that is strange in 1952 there was a church (St Annes) that was associated with the Catholic Charities Adoptions, in the article it mentions that a woman gave birth to a baby that was given up and the church assigned the woman an alias. I am not saying that this baby was the unknown boy but it makes a person wonder if one persons adoption was handled this way then how many (and I am sure several) were handled this way, in which case were back to square zero because if this boy was adopted out and he was sickly the "adoptive parents" could have brought him back which was not unheard of back then

[Richard]

...
5. Sunday, February 24, 1957 (1:30 p.m.) - John Powroznik discovered the boy's body while returning home from a basketball game. He did not mention this incident to anyone...
...But didn't think it was important enough to mention...

What an Idiot.

[2sisters]

...But didn't think it was important enough to mention...

What an Idiot.Was he the one who found the body while "peeping" on the girls at the homes? I recall reading somewhere that someone found him while being a peeping tom but was afraid to come forward.

[bykerladi]

A memorial service will be held for this poor boy on February 26 at 10am in Ivy Hill Cemetary.


http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/16670732.htm

[Rle7]

He was only a little boy. Somewhere between 4 and 6 years old, with blue eyes, fair complexion and medium to light brown hair, crudely cut. His nude, severely malnourished body was wrapped in a cheap cotton flannel blanket, placed inside a cardboard box that originally housed a white bassinet. Deep bruises covered much of the boy's frame and face, a telltale indication of prolonged abuse. Tossed aside like trash off an isolated rural road, lying there for days, perhaps weeks, before anyone found him.



Fifty years later, an old man leans by the boy's gravestone, sidestepping the plush toys and flowers that have been left on the ground nearby. He smiles, thinking about the many hundreds of similar artifacts placed by well-wishers and sympathetic visitors in the nearly 10 years that the boy has lain here. It's a brisk January day and he almost didn't make it to the cemetery. It's hard enough for him to drive and snow falling hard just a few minutes before made him understandably nervous. But the snow has stopped, replaced by brilliant sunshine breaking over the sky. He moves even closer and utters a prayer, inaudible to anyone around him but full of heartfelt sentiment that echoes loud and clear:

That he will live long enough for the one piece of news that has eluded him for decades, even as he grows increasingly resigned that this may never come.

He is the Boy in the Box, America's Unknown Child and more recently, Jonathan. Names used interchangeably, but always with a sense of incompleteness, because none is his for-sure true one. Years of voluminous leads, promising theories and fluctuating spotlights, and the answers are still frustratingly out of reach. With the 50th anniversary of the boy's death approaching, the probability of a definitive outcome grows ever slimmer as his strongest advocates grow older, more infirm and die off. The case's most active homicide investigator retired recently from the Philadelphia Police Department, with no replacement in sight. Even a dedicated Web site (at www.americasunknownchild.net (http://www.americasunknownchild.net/)) by an interested layman lies fallow after his unexpected death two months ago. When they are gone, who will be left to speak for the boy?

http://www.citypaper.net/articles/2007/02/15/boy-missing

This is a very sad story. It's highly unlikely someone will come forward with info after all this time. It's sad to think this case will no longer get followed up on. This boy needs his real name gracing his headstone.

[Rle7]

A special ceremony was held this morning to mark the 50th anniversary of Philadelphia's most infamous, unsolved murder.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=local&id=5069920

[sneezy]

this is from philly.com

Posted on Tue, Feb. 27, 2007
(http://www.reprintbuyer.com/mags/knightridder/reprints.html)

The 'Boy in the Box' mystery, 50 years on

By Joseph A. Gambardello

Inquirer Staff Writer

http://www.philly.com/images/philly/inquirer/16793/282019071671.jpg



Deanna Gannon came to a snow-covered Ivy Hill Cemetery in the gray morning chill yesterday with a single white rose for a boy more loved in death than he was in life.

He has no name, but Gannon - like many of her generation who grew up in Philadelphia in the 1950s - remembers his face.

And so she joined with a dwindling band of retired investigators in marking the 50th anniversary of what has become known as the Boy in the Box case.

There was Elmer Palmer, the police officer who found the boy's bruised and undernourished body in a bassinet box on a field Feb. 26, 1957, in a then-rural part of Fox Chase.

There was Bill Kelly, a onetime police photographer who searched hundreds of medical and immigration records trying to put a name to the face that touched a city. And there was Joe McGillen, a former medical examiner's office investigator, who with Kelly and other members of the Vidocq Society - a group of professional and amateur sleuths - is still trying to solve the crime.

Joining them for the first time was Detective Regina Byarm, the latest Police Department homicide investigator assigned to oversee case H-57-22.

Gannon, too, was making her first visit to the boy's grave site, which had been in Potter's Field until his remains were moved to Ivy Hill in 1998.

Gannon was 12 when the case broke. Since then, she has become the mother of five and the grandmother of 10.

"I remember the poster [of the boy's face] going to the store in our neighborhood," said Gannon, of Gwynedd Valley. "It's such a tragedy. Who would be so cruel?"

The boy was 4 to 6 years old and had been beaten. His light brown hair had been crudely chopped. His nude body was wrapped in a cheap blanket.

McGillen recalled that investigators felt they would break the case in days, if not hours.

"Now, 50 years later, we're still in the same position... It's still a mystery," he said.

He noted that others who had taken the case to heart have since died, including Remington Bristow, a former medical examiner's investigator; and George Knowles, who created the America's Unknown Child Web site dedicated to the case.

At yesterday's graveside ceremony, Kelly offered prayers. A bagpiper played "Amazing Grace" and other hymns.

It was Kelly who observed that the boy "had more love in death than he encountered in life."

And William Fleisher, a former police officer and FBI agent who is commissioner of the Vidocq Society in Philadelphia, said that as long as the boy is remembered, there is chance that one day his name could be chiseled into his tombstone, no longer unknown.

Contact staff writer Joseph Gambardello at 215-854-2153 or jgambardello@phillynews.com (jgambardello@phillynews.com).

[2sisters]

Bumping him up. Can a mod move this sweet little guy to the unknown section maybe? He is the first Doe I ever came across and who led me to missing kids and Does and then here. I never gave stuff like this much thought until him.

[2sisters]

Bumping him up. Can a mod move this sweet little guy to the unknown section maybe? He is the first Doe I ever came across and who led me to missing kids and Does and then here. I never gave stuff like this much thought until him.

[2sisters]

I had before brought up if there was any way to know if he was menatlly retarded or had some sort of disability. I was curious b/c I thought maybe he was dropped off at an institution as an infant or toddler once a disability or retardation became apparent, as many parents did with diasbled kids back then. Is it possible he was accidentaly killed at a mental institution? I know some were not the friendliest of places.
This case breaks my heart so much and I doubt he will ever have a name.

[2sisters]

I had before brought up if there was any way to know if he was menatlly retarded or had some sort of disability. I was curious b/c I thought maybe he was dropped off at an institution as an infant or toddler once a disability or retardation became apparent, as many parents did with diasbled kids back then. Is it possible he was accidentaly killed at a mental institution? I know some were not the friendliest of places.
This case breaks my heart so much and I doubt he will ever have a name.

[Gina_M]

I thought the bruises were a mix of old and new but the haircut bruises were new, I think thatts how they knew he had his hair cut recently.

On the Doe Network it says "His body was beaten, although coroners' investigations were unable to pinpoint any previous broken bones or inflicted trauma." and "Strands of the child's own hair were present on his body, leading authorities to believe that his hair had been cut shortly before or following his homicide."


Here's the updated Doe Network link:
http://doenetwork.org/cases/4umpa.html

[Gina_M]

I thought the bruises were a mix of old and new but the haircut bruises were new, I think thatts how they knew he had his hair cut recently.

On the Doe Network it says "His body was beaten, although coroners' investigations were unable to pinpoint any previous broken bones or inflicted trauma." and "Strands of the child's own hair were present on his body, leading authorities to believe that his hair had been cut shortly before or following his homicide."


Here's the updated Doe Network link:
http://doenetwork.org/cases/4umpa.html

[2sisters]

I just can't quit thinking about this boy tonight. Do hospitals keep medical records from that far back? maybe an older Phila hospital has records from his surgery? Is it even possible for someone to comb through records from, say, 1950-1956 to look for anything? Then again he may not even be local. He could be anyone from anywhere.
I guess that is impossible, what with hopitals changing hands, merging, closing and it being 50 years later.
I still just think he was disabled or mentally challenged in some way.

[2sisters]

I just can't quit thinking about this boy tonight. Do hospitals keep medical records from that far back? maybe an older Phila hospital has records from his surgery? Is it even possible for someone to comb through records from, say, 1950-1956 to look for anything? Then again he may not even be local. He could be anyone from anywhere.
I guess that is impossible, what with hopitals changing hands, merging, closing and it being 50 years later.
I still just think he was disabled or mentally challenged in some way.

[Gina_M]

Philadelphia is also very close to other states, such as Delaware, New Jersey, and Maryland. I wonder if LE ever checked out the possibility of him coming from one of these nearby states.

[absinthe]

I think i remember reading a theory that the boy had been disguised as a girl? That was an explanation for both the fresh haircut and the fact that no one recognized him.

[AmandaBrown23]

Is it possible they cut his hair to try to throw off what he looked like? I was just wondering.

[believe09]

I would think that there must be a way to do DNA even this old and see if he had any abnormal markers which would indicate if h might have been mentally retarded? Or as Gina M mentioned to me earlier, he might be an ideal candidate for the new oxygen technology that can determine where someone previously lived based on the oxygen molecules in their bones or teeth...

[christine2448]

Is it possible they cut his hair to try to throw off what he looked like? I was just wondering.

I think that is a good theory. IIRC, his nails were also cut and he was recently bathed? Been a long time since i read up on this one.

What is sad, with this and so many other cold cases, time is running out.

[bakerprune64]

You know I can only hope that justice will come for this precious child, just as it did for Baby Grace. There has to be somebody somewhere who knows something about this child, and sooner or later (preferably sooner) somebody will come forward. That is my wish for the new year.

[2sisters]

I think that is a good theory. IIRC, his nails were also cut and he was recently bathed? Been a long time since i read up on this one.

What is sad, with this and so many other cold cases, time is running out.
IMO, this one will never be solved. His parents could very well be dead, but then again, maybe one will come forward with a death bed confession. His parents could age anywhere from early 70's to late 80's maybe a little older.

[2sisters]

You know I can only hope that justice will come for this precious child, just as it did for Baby Grace. There has to be somebody somewhere who knows something about this child, and sooner or later (preferably sooner) somebody will come forward. That is my wish for the new year.
Same here. This child should be about the same age as my dead. He had the same thin build my dad had as a child and the light short hair and just reminded me of my own father as a child from the pictures I saw. Anyways, my dad and his siblings were horribly abused, severly beaten and threatened by their parents daily the beatings they recived were awful, and my dad bore the brunt being the oldest and this little boy always makes me think, wow that could have been my dad or one of his brothers just as easily. So that is why this case breaks my heart aside from the other obvious reasons, and it was the first Doe I came across.

[2sisters]

merging would be agood idea. I already bothered a mod about one merger tonight, does anyone want to volunteer to ask to get this merged?

[2sisters]

Thx for merging the 2 Chico and thanks for bringing it up Gina.

[Gina_M]

Okay, now that we are all "on the same page"...literally :D

This trace element geochemistry is fascinating. It's been posted in a few other UID threads, and I thought I'd bring it over here as well. The bones and teeth collect oxygen isotopes that act as geographic markers throughout a person's life. This was done with the DuPage County Doe:
http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=85576
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-babydoe_webnov29,0,6995280.story?coll=chi_tab01_la yout

The guy who is working on these studies:
http://www.science.mcmaster.ca/geo/faculty/emeriti/schwarcz/index.html
http://www.science.mcmaster.ca/geo/faculty/emeriti/schwarcz/research/index.html

With the DuPage County Doe, they could tell where he lived during his short life (general region) as well as where his mom lived while pregnant (different region). I wonder if this could be done for our Boy in the Box?

[Mr. E]

What ever happened with that woman who claimed that her mother bought the boy, I think she called him "Jonathan," for sexual purposes? The woman claimed the boy lived in their basement, and after his death she and her mother disposed of him (I think she insinuated she and her mother were spotted by a passerby).

I kept waiting to hear if this story was fabricated or authenticated, but I never heard anything.

[imthemom]

What ever happened with that woman who claimed that her mother bought the boy, I think she called him "Jonathan," for sexual purposes? The woman claimed the boy lived in their basement, and after his death she and her mother disposed of him (I think she insinuated she and her mother were spotted by a passerby).

I kept waiting to hear if this story was fabricated or authenticated, but I never heard anything.

On the website set up by investigators it said this story was dismissed because they thought she was not a reliable source. In otherwords they thought she was loony:eek: . I thought her story was very plausible though. I still think it should not be totally dismissed.

[heidi k]

wow, i saw something similar to this on tv, i think it was on cold case or something like that. in the movie the scenario was that he ended up being a foster child who was born into the foster system by the nun who apparently had sinned, but the part where they found the boy in the cardboard box and the picture of this boy were the same. I wonder if they did it based on him but i wasn't aware that it was a real case. that is so sad. someone has to know who this child is. about the lady they claim is a looney, they should at least take it into consideration. hopefully they are still investigating

[2sisters]

I think there was a show that did that, maybe CSI?

[Elphaba]

Cold Case (the show is depicted to be in Philadelphia)... I was just thinking the same thing, while reading this... I think their episode was based on this case.

[Elphaba]

Here it is, the Cold Case episode:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_in_the_Box_%28Cold_Case_episode%29

[thefragile7393]

On the website set up by investigators it said this story was dismissed because they thought she was not a reliable source. In otherwords they thought she was loony:eek: . I thought her story was very plausible though. I still think it should not be totally dismissed.
Especially since it corroborates another witness's testimony about coming across a woman and someone else getting something out of a car, he asked them if they needed help, they turned their backs and didn't respond.

IMHO, very very humble opinion, I do think these 2 are right on the money. Just because one is mentally ill does not mean that they make up stories, though sadly that is the case a number of times.

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
I found this.I go by the saying "YOU NEVER FAIL UNTILL YOU QUIT TRYING"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LImoCjRjpfQ&mode=related&search=



suzanne

[believe09]

So mito/DNA is now available and at some point he had a chest tube and a catheter (perhaps) as well as IV fluid or a transfusion through his legs because he was either too dehydrated to present with a good vein or he was damaged like in an accident. Were there ever XRAYS done to see if he had broken bones? Arms and hands spring to mind...

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Can some one please help me find this.I think it was in an old newspaper article that says some one in N.J.? saw a man and a boy that fit the boy in the boxes discription in a resturaunt? and the boy called home?something like that.

suzanne

[RKnowley]

It seems there were X-Rays taken according to an article dated August 9, 1957:

<snip>
Roberts decided to have the body X-rayed, to determine if there was an old fracture of the left arm, like the Damman boy. Footprints also were taken for comparison.

Spelman, meanwhile, came up with a more detailed report on the body. "The cool weather makes it difficult to tell how long the boy was dead," he said, "but it was at least two or three days, and possibly as long as two or three weeks. I don't think the body was in the field that long, though."

According to laboratory tests the boy had not been sexually assaulted.
"As closely as we can tell, he is four to five years old, 40 1/2 inches tall, weighing 30 pounds. He has a full set of baby teeth, still has his tonsils, and has no deformities. No past bone breaks, and no vaccination scar. It would seem he was well cared for, because his fingernails and toenails are carefully clipped."

"His haircut seems crude," Spelman continued. "Trimmed high around the sides. Could have been given at home by an inexpert barber, or perhaps in an institution."

By then, the failure of parents or acquaintances to claim the body, after pictures and descriptions had appeared in the press, led police to believe the boy had either lived in an institution or been brought from some distance.

City Welfare Commissioner Randolph E. Wise offered to check on the whereabouts of all children in foster homes under his jurisdiction, while police canvassed orphanages and children's homes. A thorough check was made of all missing persons reports. But within several days all these efforts proved fruitless.

Police department technicians reported the blanket wrapping the boy was of cheap cotton flannel, patterned in a sort of "Indian print" of green, rust and white blocks, with faded colors. It apparently had been recently washed, then mended with poor-grade cotton thread on a sewing machine.

The blanket had been torn into halves. Its overall size would have been 64 by 76 inches. However, a section 31 by 26 inches had been torn from one half, leading police to think it might have borne some identifying mark.

Although the blanket was untraceable, investigators had better luck with the box. Marked "Furniture", it carried no firm name, but through serial numbers detectives learned the carton had once contained a baby's bassinet, shipped to a West Philadelphia department store in November, 1956.

The store reported the bassinet had probably been sold between December 3, 1956, and February 16, 1957. Roberts issued a public plea for the purchasers of all such bassinets during that period - there were believed to be about a dozen - to come forward and tell where they disposed of the cartons.

There were several other clues.

One was a blue corduroy "Ivy League" cap, size 7 1/8, found 30 feet from the body. The wearer had stuffed tissue paper in the sweatband. It had been manufactured in Philadelphia, but the trail ended there.

Two hundred feet from the body, along Verree Road, police searchers found a cache of clothing for a woman and child - but the smaller clothing was not the dead boy's size.

A story told by an informant who later contacted police seemed to cast some light on this clothing, but created a new mystery.

Two days before the body was found, said the man to Lieutenant William Lovejoy of the northeast detective division, he had been driving along Verree Road when he saw a middle-aged woman and a boy, 12 to 14, unloading something from the trunk of a car.

"I thought the car might have a flat tire, so I stopped and asked if I could help. They didn't say a word, and seemed to be standing so as to block my view of the license plate."

The scene which he described was almost exactly where the clothing had been found. The informant described the car and the woman and boy, but they were never found.

Meanwhile, the possibility that the dead boy was Steven Damman had been eliminated. Two Nassau County detectives came to Philadelphia to view the body and confer with local investigators. Footprints failed to compare; the body showed no left arm fracture. The visitors left convinced it was not Steven's.
</snip>

Complete article: http://americasunknownchild.net/FrontPage.htm
So mito/DNA is now available and at some point he had a chest tube and a catheter (perhaps) as well as IV fluid or a transfusion through his legs because he was either too dehydrated to present with a good vein or he was damaged like in an accident. Were there ever XRAYS done to see if he had broken bones? Arms and hands spring to mind...

[believe09]

thank you-I thought perhaps he might have had some kind of crushing injury at some point that made his arms unable to be used for transfusions.

The chest scar sounds superficially like a chest tube, and the incision in the groin area could be from a inguinal hernia or undescended testes?

I have read some articles dated between 1908 and 1951 that indicate "exchange transfusions' were routinely done through the ankle. For example, one of the articles told a story of a woman who had routinely suffered from "pulmonary hemorrages" and was on the verge of death. Her husband had a tube placed into his wrist (artery) and then she had the other end placed into her ankle. his blood flowed from him into her and saved her life...this was in 1908. There are also some articles indicating that it was routinely done on pediatric patients who needed transfusions...up until the 1970's.

I wonder if he was a hemophiliac?

[believe09]

I noticed that St. Christopher's Hospital for Children, which currently pioneers hemophiliac care, opened in 1875....just thinking out loud.

[believe09]

I can't seem to find a COD-or why the police were sure he was beaten around his whole body.

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
It looks like his poor legs got most of the beating.

suzanne

[vadersbabe]

I will never ever forget the very first time I saw this poor boy's face on the doe network.

It is incomprehensible to me how someone could have hurt him and thrown him away as if he were nothing.

I can't seem to get out of my head, "M"'s story as to how her mother purchased this boy, regularly abused him and how he met his death. While I know that the investigators have looked into her story and concluded that there was not enough evidence to corroborate her story, she does mention some things that make me scratch my head. First, she told investigators that she helped her mother dispose of the boy. They were on the side of the road when another car came by and stopped, thinking they needed assistance. "M" said that she and her mother turned away and hid the license plate marker. It was brought to light years ago that a man came forward and told police about a car on the side of the road a few days before the boy was discovered. This man said he stopped to help a car on the side of the road and when he approached them, he said the woman and boy moved to cover the license plate and trunk area of the car. I am not sure if this was a fact known by many as far as the investigation goes. It just makes me scratch my head.

[Eire]

I can't seem to get out of my head, "M"'s story as to how her mother purchased this boy, regularly abused him and how he met his death. While I know that the investigators have looked into her story and concluded that there was not enough evidence to corroborate her story, she does mention some things that make me scratch my head. First, she told investigators that she helped her mother dispose of the boy. They were on the side of the road when another car came by and stopped, thinking they needed assistance. "M" said that she and her mother turned away and hid the license plate marker. It was brought to light years ago that a man came forward and told police about a car on the side of the road a few days before the boy was discovered. This man said he stopped to help a car on the side of the road and when he approached them, he said the woman and boy moved to cover the license plate and trunk area of the car. I am not sure if this was a fact known by many as far as the investigation goes. It just makes me scratch my head.

It could be that "M" read that in the newspaper. That part was public knowledge, so maybe she read it and remembered it. She could be telling the truth and she's being ignored because she has mental health issues, I don't honestly know. It's a difficult call to make. Not all mentally ill people make up stories, but some do.

[mum33004]

I read on the website that the box the little boy was found in was from JC Penneys & that it held a bassinett. Is it possible the person who killed this little boy worked at Penneys and brought the box home?

[vadersbabe]

Good point, Eire. It is possible that she could be telling the truth. We'll just never know. :confused:

[kygal]

This is a very sad story, and like several others is what drew me into this.

I wonder if he could have had either heart or stomach/intestinal problems. My reasoning is that he also had several healed scars in that area, and the autopsy reports no visible "old" bruising or injury. He was also VERY underweight -- but not enough that starvation would have been a real likely problem. The reason I say that is that I have a 4 YO that wieghs only about 38 to 40 pounds now. Having some sort of cardiovascular or intestinal disease or injury would have kept him from playing much (perhaps why others had not seen him much) and would have kept him thin and frail.

I am of the opinion (and that is all it is) that this boy came from somewhere further away than the Fox Chase area -- but I'd say that whoever put him there had at least lived there at some point. His family probably had money/income at one time because medical treatment have always been expensive -- and the state hasn't always been so generous with giving money to help with them. Perhaps something happened in the family where they were no longer able to pay for his treatment -- and in all the frustration (no money, his illness) things got out of control and he was beaten to death. Some of the bruisings could have been caused by his falling (noting legs here) as his condition could have worsened and he would have gotten weaker.

I am still thinking that there were more than likely siblings and parents and that they are still alive -- perhaps the siblings were too little to remember or are afraid to say anything.

[2sisters]

I read on the website that the box the little boy was found in was from JC Penneys & that it held a bassinett. Is it possible the person who killed this little boy worked at Penneys and brought the box home?
good point, I wonder if there is anyway to look into that.

[SeriouslySearching]

thank you-I thought perhaps he might have had some kind of crushing injury at some point that made his arms unable to be used for transfusions.

The chest scar sounds superficially like a chest tube, and the incision in the groin area could be from a inguinal hernia or undescended testes?

I have read some articles dated between 1908 and 1951 that indicate "exchange transfusions' were routinely done through the ankle. For example, one of the articles told a story of a woman who had routinely suffered from "pulmonary hemorrages" and was on the verge of death. Her husband had a tube placed into his wrist (artery) and then she had the other end placed into her ankle. his blood flowed from him into her and saved her life...this was in 1908. There are also some articles indicating that it was routinely done on pediatric patients who needed transfusions...up until the 1970's.

I wonder if he was a hemophiliac?That was one of my first thoughts, too. Extensive bruising on the legs could certainly be a sign of that.

[believe09]

That was one of my first thoughts, too. Extensive bruising on the legs could certainly be a sign of that.

I actually emailed the VIDOQ Society with that question, and some of the information from the local hospitals that handled hemophiliacs during that time frame. I will post any responses I receive....

[SeriouslySearching]

I actually emailed the VIDOQ Society with that question, and some of the information from the local hospitals that handled hemophiliacs during that time frame. I will post any responses I receive....Great! Thanks for checking that out! With the scars and such...it does sound like this child could have been a patient with a medical condition to me. They should have records unless the Doctor kept them and he is no longer alive. (To you young sleuths...50 years is NOT that long ago. LOL)

[2sisters]

I actually emailed the VIDOQ Society with that question, and some of the information from the local hospitals that handled hemophiliacs during that time frame. I will post any responses I receive....
keep us posted. I wish he could have a name, but after this long I just don't feel it is possible.

[Rle7]

It's about as cold as a cold case can be: the case of the boy in the box.

The case has haunted Philadelphia for 51 years, the longest and most-investigated murder mystery in the city's history. Now a member of the Vidocq Society, a group of retired law enforcement detectives and other sleuths who specialize in unsolved crimes, has a new theory. It all began on this lonely dirt road 51 years ago. A young boy said to be 4 to 6 years old found nude in a cardboard box at an illegal dumping ground off Susquehanna near Verree Road in Philadelphia's Fox Chase section. Photos of the boy were widely distributed over the years throughout the country and he would ultimately be dubbed "America's unknown child". But despite it all, the case has never been solved. Now, world-renowned forensic artist Frank Bender thinks he knows why.

"I'm almost certain that they've been missing the boat because they've been showing a boy and he is a boy, but the boy, I believe, was dressed as a girl."

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6158232

[BeavisMom62]

Great find, RLE7. I'm so glad that they are still working on this. It would be a miracle if this case could be solved.

[believe09]

I assumed that this was a working theory already-I assumed that this was the reason his hair was cut off. And I also assume that is why they discounted the story of the woman who claimed her mother bought him...because he had been dressed/raised/disguised as a girl. I must have heard this all theorized sometime before...

[believe09]

Sorry for the back to back posts-but maybe we can help out and have one of our talented photoshop folks take a stab at doing a photo with him with a girl's hairstyle, from that era??

[Zanko]

Girl theory: Why not just trim the child's hair? Why butcher it so that it was obvious that his hair had been cut?
Another question: Why not bury the child?
IMO: Who ever left this child, was either not strong enough to bury the child or was in a desperate hurry to get rid of the body. I also think they were confident that they would not be linked to the child or they would have taken more care to hide the body. Maybe the murder, the haircut, the disposal was all done in a panic, but I am not convinced about the "raised as a girl" theory.
I may be grasping at straws, but were there any religious sects around that kept boys hair longer than the "norm" for the day and age? Also do any of the articles suggest how long of hair they found on the boy? Are we talking 6 inches? 3 inches? 1?

[believe09]

Girl theory: Why not just trim the child's hair? Why butcher it so that it was obvious that his hair had been cut?
Another question: Why not bury the child?
IMO: Who ever left this child, was either not strong enough to bury the child or was in a desperate hurry to get rid of the body. I also think they were confident that they would not be linked to the child or they would have taken more care to hide the body. Maybe the murder, the haircut, the disposal was all done in a panic, but I am not convinced about the "raised as a girl" theory.
I may be grasping at straws, but were there any religious sects around that kept boys hair longer than the "norm" for the day and age? Also do any of the articles suggest how long of hair they found on the boy? Are we talking 6 inches? 3 inches? 1?

Good thoughts-his hair must have id'd him somehow which is why it was butchered. I have always been unable to decide if he was brutalized, or killed/died with someone who cared about him simply because he was washed before his head was shaved and he was dumped right?

Maybe if we take a look at the ethnic/cultural make up of the area at that time we can come upon a religion that cleans their dead before they bury. And yet dumping him would not have caused any issues in the afterlife...I know that it was speculated that his COD was a head injury, and that they knew he had no broken bones to his body prior to death right??

[Zanko]

I know this question will be controversial, I don't mean any disrespect: The Amish are in Pennsylvania and my understanding is that they keep boys hair longer than what would have been "standard" for the time. Would an Amish community allow medical treatment on a child? I know Amish communities are peaceful. I also know they separate themselves from society in a lot of ways. In the 50's would the Amish community have gotten the news reports about this child? Is it possible that one of their own could have left the community after "accidentally" killing their child? And go undetected because of the isolation of their community?

[believe09]

I know this question will be controversial, I don't mean any disrespect: The Amish are in Pennsylvania and my understanding is that they keep boys hair longer than what would have been "standard" for the time. Would an Amish community allow medical treatment on a child? I know Amish communities are peaceful. I also know they separate themselves from society in a lot of ways. In the 50's would the Amish community have gotten the news reports about this child? Is it possible that one of their own could have left the community after "accidentally" killing their child? And go undetected because of the isolation of their community?

You are not being disrespectful, I do not believe-i think it is wise to investigate. I just did some research on burial rituals for a certain sect of Judaism that settled in PA around the revolutionary war and still had a strong presence at the time the boy was found. check this out:
To wash the body with water brought from the fountain in a new container and dress it in white clothes.
To clip the deceased's nails (or at least a couple of them) as well as a few hairs and wrap everything in a piece of paper or cloth
To burn clipped hair and nails after death

I am just trying to get a sense of how culturally diverse the surrounding might have been and how possible it might have been to dump such a sweet child and walk away without being found out...i did not choose Judaism to start with-I was more looking at possible illnesses that would meet some of the cut-down scars he had and it brought me to some genetic illnesses that led me to the above...shrouding or wrapping his body could mean anything and if the boy was face down when found, then I don't think we are dealing with devout Judaism...i mean could this have been a families best attempt at disposing of their loved one or is it for sure murder?

[believe09]

Regarding Amish burial customs, there is washing and dressing of the corpse, no mention of hair and nail cutting and children can be buried in unmarked graves...this of course means nothing in the face of a crime when the victim is dumped, it is just that there is something that is grabbing me about the fact that the boy was washed and hair/nails cut in the days prior to the type of forensics we are used to now.

[VASHLEY88]

First time poster in this thread. This is such a sad story! Bless his little heart.

I think it's a possibility he may have been institutionalized. If you look at the markings on his forehead and the side of his head, they almost make a perfect "band". Like a head restraint. I'd imagine it's not too difficult to bruise a young child's head with a harsh leather/metal strap, especially if he were resisting. Just a thought..

[VASHLEY88]

I wonder if they ever checked him for Tuberculosis traces. In the 1950's, several sanitariums admitted children with the disease..

[anthrobones]

Are they going to do a clay reconstruction or anything?

[BeavisMom62]

That would be interesting. the only photo of him, however heartbreaking, would be hard to identify IMO. Some new techniques could be what this case is needing.

[anthrobones]

"M"'s story
The second major theory is one brought forward in February, 2002 by a woman identified only as "M." She claimed that her abusive mother purchased the unknown boy, named "Jonathan," from his birth parents in the summer of 1954. Subsequently, the youngster was subjected to extreme physical and sexual abuse for two and a half years, then killed in a fit of rage by slamming him to the floor after he vomited in the bathtub. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_in_the_Box_%28Philadelphia%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_in_the_Box_%28Philadelphia%29)

Anyone know if there were injuries consistent with being slammed against the floor?

[believe09]

I think Vashley's theory of a head restraint is interesting-I know the oval bruises are theorized to be fingerprints from him having his head shaved...maybe he was seizing? Maybe it is me, but he actually does not look skeletal or horrifically malnourished to me. I think the bruising on his legs is horrendous and the clearest sign that all was not right with him for sure. But with no history of prior abuse like burns or broken bones-what the heck? he had lacerations on his neck-from the clippers? I am clearly a novice at this but if he had trauma to the head, it is hard to really see it.

He had bruising on his arms above his elbows, oval bruises on his forehead and horrific bruising on his legs. What if he died during ECT-how would a child be restrained during it?

[anthrobones]

What is an ECT? Epilepsy?

I am wondering about the scars that were supposedly from medical treatments, especially the ones around the ankles.

[Zanko]

What is an ECT? Epilepsy?

I am wondering about the scars that were supposedly from medical treatments, especially the ones around the ankles.

Electroconvulsive therapy also known as Shock Therapy.

[believe09]

Thank you Zanko- back in the 40's and 50's Electric Shock Therapy was at it's peak. Interestingly enough during these time frames, it was done without muscle relaxant or anesthesia's of any kind, so recipients frequently dislocated or broke their long bones during the convulsions. Now, just speculation, but I wonder if someone had dislocated their legs at the knee and the dislocation were reduced (put back into place) if it would look like the swelling we saw on the boy? There were also few physicians at the time who could recognize a brain that had been shocked upon autopsy. It would have displayed abnormal bleeding, atrophys, scarring etc...could have looked like an internal head injury?

http://www.antipsychiatry.org/ect.htm

[VASHLEY88]

Thank you Zanko- back in the 40's and 50's Electric Shock Therapy was at it's peak. Interestingly enough during these time frames, it was done without muscle relaxant or anesthesia's of any kind, so recipients frequently dislocated or broke their long bones during the convulsions. Now, just speculation, but I wonder if someone had dislocated their legs at the knee and the dislocation were reduced (put back into place) if it would look like the swelling we saw on the boy? There were also few physicians at the time who could recognize a brain that had been shocked upon autopsy. It would have displayed abnormal bleeding, atrophys, scarring etc...could have looked like an internal head injury?

http://www.antipsychiatry.org/ect.htm

Thank you, believe09.

Well, the first time I saw his photos, although I was horrified, I noticed the size of the markings on his head. All pretty much the same diameter. If you look at your finger tips, they aren't consistent in size. I'd imagine you'd have to be one strong person with mammoth hands to put that much pressure on his head to cause contusions that deep. Yes, ECT was most definitely at it's peak around the time he died.

During treatment, when a patient is resisting or seizing (from ECT, for example), restraints are often used around the head, arms, wrists, legs, chest and ankles. Sometimes they are restrained in such a way that a strap goes over the forearms/lower chest area and around the legs and forehead. Patients also seize and vomit (the brown substance they found in his esophagus), and I read that he had "pruney" hands and feet. Perhaps while being inoculated with electricity he was submerged in water somehow and died by electrocution?

Also, the haircut. They shave the sides of their heads during ECT treatment, too so there isn't any hair in the way..

[VASHLEY88]

Gah, I hope he wasn't a guinea pig for some quaky doctor who tried something new that went wrong so he tried to cover his mistake..




A rendering of what he may have looked like in color attempt..

I can't do clay models.



http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/popular_minoritry/JohnDoe1copy.jpg

[Filly]

You are not being disrespectful, I do not believe-i think it is wise to investigate. I just did some research on burial rituals for a certain sect of Judaism that settled in PA around the revolutionary war and still had a strong presence at the time the boy was found. check this out:
To wash the body with water brought from the fountain in a new container and dress it in white clothes.
To clip the deceased's nails (or at least a couple of them) as well as a few hairs and wrap everything in a piece of paper or cloth
To burn clipped hair and nails after death


I am just trying to get a sense of how culturally diverse the surrounding might have been and how possible it might have been to dump such a sweet child and walk away without being found out...i did not choose Judaism to start with-I was more looking at possible illnesses that would meet some of the cut-down scars he had and it brought me to some genetic illnesses that led me to the above...shrouding or wrapping his body could mean anything and if the boy was face down when found, then I don't think we are dealing with devout Judaism...i mean could this have been a families best attempt at disposing of their loved one or is it for sure murder?




Believe, I might be able to answer some of your questions. I live here. As far as cultural diversity in Fox Chase back then we had no Amish here. Living in the immediate area I mean. There was a fair amount of German's in Fox Chase. Then again probably made up of a significant Irish, Italian, German, Jewish community. It's changing now though.

As far as any burial rites for devout Jews I think the one Detective on the case would have thought of that as he was Jewish. My father worked with him for almost his entire career. He was a nice, nice, nice man and this case was always with him.

My dad didn't bring work home with him and he wasn't on that case, but I aksed my mom about this recently and she said my dad said they were really interested in that home that was nearby. An institution type home. I'll ask her more about it. Of course anything is possible. I mean as far as Amish or wheoever. Just the Amish live further up in Pennsylvania. This area was somewhat more "rural" then inner city Philly, but in the city all the same.

[believe09]

Gah, I hope he wasn't a guinea pig for some quaky doctor who tried something new that went wrong so he tried to cover his mistake..




A rendering of what he may have looked like in color attempt..

I can't do clay models.



http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/popular_minoritry/JohnDoe1copy.jpg

Thank you Vashley-you have brought some life to him that is for sure.

[believe09]

Believe, I might be able to answer some of your questions. I live here. As far as cultural diversity in Fox Chase back then we had no Amish here. Living in the immediate area I mean. There was a fair amount of German's in Fox Chase. Then again probably made up of a significant Irish, Italian, German, Jewish community. It's changing now though.

As far as any burial rites for devout Jews I think the one Detective on the case would have thought of that as he was Jewish. My father worked with him for almost his entire career. He was a nice, nice, nice man and this case was always with him.

My dad didn't bring work home with him and he wasn't on that case, but I aksed my mom about this recently and she said my dad said they were really interested in that home that was nearby. An institution type home. I'll ask her more about it. Of course anything is possible. I mean as far as Amish or wheoever. Just the Amish live further up in Pennsylvania. This area was somewhat more "rural" then inner city Philly, but in the city all the same.

Thank you Filly!!! I am going to X out my pursuit of whether or not it was a death in the immigrant community-I agree that the detective on the case would have recognized signs of a ritual burial. Something about how the boy was laid in the box looks tender to me rather than a "dump." The first photos look like he was sleeping-heartbreaking.

Here are a few of my questions, if someday I could have them answered;
1.) What made the detectives think that the bassinet box and the boy were together? The area immediately surrounding where he was found had a ton of debris-why wouldn't the bassinet box have been there first and just been used as a good hiding place for the boy?

2.) Are there surviving photos of his brain that might give a better idea of whether or not he had been shocked, either in the past or as the COD?

3.) I agree with Vashley that the bruising on his head is pretty uniform for finger prints-not to mention I tried to place my hand in a similar configuration and couldn't see how it made sense in terms of holding down the child to shave his head.

4.) Could the bruising above his elbows and on his legs have been from restraints??

5.) The palms of his hands and the soles of his feet had been submerged for a period of time-could this have been and attempt to revive him/

[believe09]

Does anyone know if the state psyche hospital was fully vetted? The pro for me is the obvious; the patients were absolutely warehoused and abused, there were lobotomies and est, and there were children who lived there as far as I could see. The con for me is that they would have no need to do a body dump, since they did their own autopsies to determine why the patient had died.

http://theduke81.tripod.com/index.html

[believe09]

Pinkie swear, I have never really read it up to now. It seems that the boy did have hernia surgery, and the last year of his life he was ill-they actually had a anthropological bone specialist look at him and his xrays. It was determined that his leg bones had slowed growth...they really pulled out all of the stops with this case! Cool.

he had all of his teeth and he was buck-toothed with light brown hair and blue eyes. He had received treatment for an eye infection, he did not drown even though he was submerged in water and he had a brown liquid in his esophagus....I have to believe it was some kind of medication that he did not swallow before he died. His hair and nails were cut before or just after death. He had not eaten for a few hours prior to his death, and because Philly was so cold, he could have been dead for 2-3 days to 3 weeks. he was probably closer to 5-6yrs than 3-4 if he had all of his teeth. He is probably western European or Scandinavian. (My vote is German since that is what seems to make sense given the population around there.)
http://books.google.com/books?id=ktDtk9hwo8QC&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=the+boy+in+the+box+autopsy+report&source=web&ots=PH9ABoF3Rj&sig=txNDauTeVNFNKmY8KqqgjDvIt0w&hl=en

I also read that the woman investigators believed actually gave birth to him had another child die in 1957 of being electrocuted by a ride on toy outside of a department store. They verified her story through morgue records. I wonder if anyone collected a DNA sample from her anyway?

http://www.courttv.com/news/hiddentraces/boyinthebox/boyinthebox_page3.html

[believe09]

Gotta get back to packing, but I started doing some research on common meds and antibiotics during that time frame to see if any of them were in a brownish liquid suspension form. Interestingly enough, there were 5400 different forms of sulfa drugs used at that time, as well as:
streptomycin, chloramphenicol, and tetracycline.

(http://library.thinkquest.org/25462/history.html)

Streptomycin was delivered via intra-muscular injection only.
Chloramphenicol could be used to treat eye infections in an eye drop form as well as used for a myriad of bacterial infections orally. It was commonly used for Cholera and could cause bone marrow supression as well as a number of ugly side effects with toxicity.

There are many versions of Tetracycline which were also used at the time, however it tended to cause renal issues if not taken with sufficient fluids and photosensitivity.

There has to be someone with a medical or pharmacological background here at WS who might be able to weigh in on this???

HUGS and PEACE

[VASHLEY88]

Gotta get back to packing, but I started doing some research on common meds and antibiotics during that time frame to see if any of them were in a brownish liquid suspension form. Interestingly enough, there were 5400 different forms of sulfa drugs used at that time, as well as:
streptomycin, chloramphenicol, and tetracycline.

(http://library.thinkquest.org/25462/history.html)

Streptomycin was delivered via intra-muscular injection only.
Chloramphenicol could be used to treat eye infections in an eye drop form as well as used for a myriad of bacterial infections orally. It was commonly used for Cholera and could cause bone marrow supression as well as a number of ugly side effects with toxicity.

There are many versions of Tetracycline which were also used at the time, however it tended to cause renal issues if not taken with sufficient fluids and photosensitivity.

There has to be someone with a medical or pharmacological background here at WS who might be able to weigh in on this???

HUGS and PEACE



Tetracycline or Chlora was probably what they used. The reason I wanted to know if they had checked him for traces of TB (tuberculosis) is because many children were admitted to sanitariums for this disease around the era in which he died. Perhaps Gastrointestinal TB, or pelvic TB which can cause hernias (abdominal hernias are most common and are usually present at birth).

Another disease that crossed my mind was hyperspleenism, which basically means the spleen is overactive, causing it to destroy more blood cells than it needs to (hemolytic anemia). Some symptoms I know of that come with hyperspleenism are easy bruising, that it is common to develop after TB infection, and makes it very easy to contract other bacterial infections, conjunctivitis, for example. With severe Hemolytic anemia, blood transfusions are often needed.

The thing is, I read on about this case and apparently they sent a flier to every doctor in the area, including Delaware and Jersey. I don't know if that includes asylums/mental hospitals/sanitariums, whatever you want to call them.

Interestingly enough, this unidentified child has the most information out of any other unidentified persons case I have ever worked on, but has gone the longest without ever being solved...

[believe09]

Tetracycline or Chlora was probably what they used. The reason I wanted to know if they had checked him for traces of TB (tuberculosis) is because many children were admitted to sanitariums for this disease around the era in which he died. Perhaps Gastrointestinal TB, or pelvic TB which can cause hernias (abdominal hernias are most common and are usually present at birth).

Another disease that crossed my mind was hyperspleenism, which basically means the spleen is overactive, causing it to destroy more blood cells than it needs to (hemolytic anemia). Some symptoms I know of that come with hyperspleenism are easy bruising, that it is common to develop after TB infection, and makes it very easy to contract other bacterial infections, conjunctivitis, for example. With severe Hemolytic anemia, blood transfusions are often needed.

The thing is, I read on about this case and apparently they sent a flier to every doctor in the area, including Delaware and Jersey. I don't know if that includes asylums/mental hospitals/sanitariums, whatever you want to call them.

Interestingly enough, this unidentified child has the most information out of any other unidentified persons case I have ever worked on, but has gone the longest without ever being solved...

Which makes you think that someone truly has decided to go to their deaths without id'ng him...and I completely agree with the TB theory 'cept I thought for sure they would test for it or id it when they saw his lungs....

[VASHLEY88]

Which makes you think that someone truly has decided to go to their deaths without id'ng him...and I completely agree with the TB theory 'cept I thought for sure they would test for it or id it when they saw his lungs....

I'm not sure what they checked for back then for post-mortem cases like these, and I am unsure if they would have had to test for it right when his body was recovered, because it would seem more likely he was beaten and/or abused. I'm not even sure if it's likely that they exhumed his body to find traces of it.. I'm no pathology expert. I just thought there was a good chance he may have been a victim of the disease because the "raves of children", as it was described, were ID'd by number, not name since there were so many of them.. but why would a doctor ID a person if he is responsible for the dumping of the body? He wouldn't.

But that still doesn't explain the odd things, like the fresh haircut, for example. Perhaps the hair was cut to make it more difficult to ID him? What a difficult and very upsetting case.




A version I did with longer hair..


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e127/popular_minoritry/johnnydoe2.jpg

[kaylenbabysims]

wow you did such a good job!!!! :clap:
thanks so much helping out with these cases!! (thanks to everyone!) there's just so many cases its sad!

[Filly]

Does anyone know if the state psyche hospital was fully vetted? The pro for me is the obvious; the patients were absolutely warehoused and abused, there were lobotomies and est, and there were children who lived there as far as I could see. The con for me is that they would have no need to do a body dump, since they did their own autopsies to determine why the patient had died.

http://theduke81.tripod.com/index.html

Whatever we read about Byberry that's not even the half of it, B.

Absolutely agree they wouldn't dump a body. They didn't have to. They did have a "cabin" for about 100 children. That meant they probably had 400 kids in there and I am not exaggerating. Anyone from people/kids with epilipsy to hearing problems. I get sick when I think of that place. Definately don't think the boy was there.

B, I'll ask my mom if she knows any answers to any of your questions. They are all good ones. I think well I think they knew the box and the poor baby were together because the boy from Poland I believe actually saw the box and body together before that LaSalle College guy. That original kid was the one who went back in the woods alot to catch rabbits.

I always thought the weirdest was that guy who went to LaSalle College said he stopped the car there either going to school or coming home to catch a rabbit. O.K. Ummmmmm, he lived on Lansing Street which is completely the other way. That don't jive. I know he supposedly was peeping, but why lie to the extent you tripped up so bad you told cops you were on your way to school or coming home? Nope. Wrong way. Wrong route. Completely out of his way.

[believe09]

You are fabulous Filly and thanks!!! I don't suppose the peeping Tom guy was ever considered suspicious? Although I have to think that maybe he knew the body had been there longer than the two days he said he noticed it if he was stalking the girls in the home regularly...

Whatever we read about Byberry that's not even the half of it, B.

Absolutely agree they wouldn't dump a body. They didn't have to. They did have a "cabin" for about 100 children. That meant they probably had 400 kids in there and I am not exaggerating. Anyone from people/kids with epilipsy to hearing problems. I get sick when I think of that place. Definately don't think the boy was there.

B, I'll ask my mom if she knows any answers to any of your questions. They are all good ones. I think well I think they knew the box and the poor baby were together because the boy from Poland I believe actually saw the box and body together before that LaSalle College guy. That original kid was the one who went back in the woods alot to catch rabbits.

I always thought the weirdest was that guy who went to LaSalle College said he stopped the car there either going to school or coming home to catch a rabbit. O.K. Ummmmmm, he lived on Lansing Street which is completely the other way. That don't jive. I know he supposedly was peeping, but why lie to the extent you tripped up so bad you told cops you were on your way to school or coming home? Nope. Wrong way. Wrong route. Completely out of his way.

[phenolred]

What I dont understand is why it appeared his eyebrows had been plucked???( per the new story about the girl theory) on a 4 yr old Boy how thick could they have been originally? Doesnt this seem really ODD ???

[Zanko]

What I dont understand is why it appeared his eyebrows had been plucked???( per the new story about the girl theory) on a 4 yr old Boy how thick could they have been originally? Doesnt this seem really ODD ???
I agree, you wouldn't have to pluck a little boy's eyebrows to make him look like a girl. I think he was a victim of a sadistic serial killer. I wonder if there are any other cases around the same time with plucked eyebrows, cut hair and groomed fingernails?

[thefragile7393]

I know the mentally ill woman who came forward has been discredited.....but she really seems to have hit on a story that is plausible. Too often the mentally ill are seen as unreliable due to their illnesses....this isn't true necessarily. Now with possible ties to mental health treatment...I wonder if this woman was un-necessarily discredited.

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
They do not know how long how long his hair was when it was cut.I have found it is usually one of the first leads that was reported is what happened.I wonder what ever became of the lead of the barber shop man giving the boy a hair cut.The little boy had a few siblings and lived in the strawberry masion area?They should probably check the Horsham suspects again.

suzanne

[Zanko]

Every time I see a photo of this child I feel sad. He looks so little to me. I think he looks 4 years old. There are so many children missing and never recovered, is there any information on who this child was compared with and deemed "not a match"? Sometimes I see a child, missing around the same time this child was found, and I think, "Surely they ruled him out as a possible match!" But what if they haven't? Anyone know if there is a list of "rule outs"?

[michelle]

This poor little boy, I wish we knew his name.

[anthrobones]

Zanko,

I know they ruled out Steven Damman (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/damman_steven.html) (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/damman_steven.html).

I'm not sure if there were any other kids.

[s_finch]

I've always wondered if the "mother" of this child wasn't mentally handicapped/mentally ill and that her illness resulted in the abuse and subsequent death of the Boy. My son is mentally handicapped and therefore attends a special ed class and it truly astounds me when I see some of his classmates that have mentally handicapped parents and how they "care" for their children. Some of the parents do try but many do not and often they just don't "get it"--they don't understand at all about raising children and the kids end up abused/neglected and often taken away by DSS.

The bruises seem consistant with being restrained and assaulted (duh!). I can see a mentally challenged/ill "mother" restraining the Boy for whatever reasons provoked her and then assaulting him when he cried or wet himself, etc...

The haircut and clipping of fingernails on the Boy suggests to me a "motherly" touch, placing him in a box WITH A BLANKET (whether the box was already at the dump or not) also seems "motherly". Lack of clothing doesn't seem motherly but then we don't know that he actually had clothes. Hard as it is to say, he might not have had clothes to wear.

As sad as this all is, I believe the Boy is in heaven with the angels and that is in many ways so much better than living a lifetime of remembering pain and torture. I'm thankful that his miserable days didn't last longer than they did. God bless him.

[vadersbabe]

As sad as this all is, I believe the Boy is in heaven with the angels and that is in many ways so much better than living a lifetime of remembering pain and torture. I'm thankful that his miserable days didn't last longer than they did. God bless him.

Beautifully said, sfinch and I couldn't agree more. Those are comforting words for people like myself who this case has haunted for so long now.

[Zanko]

I've always wondered if the "mother" of this child wasn't mentally handicapped/mentally ill and that her illness resulted in the abuse and subsequent death of the Boy.

It's possible. But it would seem to me rather difficult for someone this disabled to hide their identity so well and for so long.

[anthrobones]

Someone else posted a thread about this in the Books Forum (I think), but I thought I'd post it here as well. The book comes out in September. I wonder if there will be any new information in it that we did not know of previously.

http://www.amazon.com/Boy-Box-Unsolved-Americas-Child/dp/1599212692/ref=sr_1_65?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208135733&sr=1-65

[Ms Suzanne]

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=393302787&MyToken=62244311-c524-47e3-aac7-e052cd489ffb

[vadersbabe]

Bless your heart, Suzanne! Thank you so much! I was just on my way here to post this.

:blowkiss:

[Zanko]

Awesome job Suzanne4444!

[Zanko]

I will never understand people who can keep secrets. Someone knows something. I imagine it would eat someone up not to tell someone, anyone. On the other hand, I guess I can't imagine anyone killing a child, either.

[Ciara]

I have followed this story.....its so heartbreaking that this poor child is still only known as The Boy in the Box and we dont know his true name. I hope whoever put him in that box has had a miserable life since.

[Motomom649]

I reserved my first post on WS for the boy in the box. I was originally drawn to this story because when I saw his picture, he reminded me of my brother, and what my brother looked like as a young child. I'm only 33 though, my brother 23. After looking and reading the description of him, something always drew me to him. Mainly because my gram lost a baby boy at birth, back in the late 40's. I'm not sure of the exact yr. She went on to have 3 girls. My aunts and mom have tried to locate his grave and have had no such luck. My gram passed in 87 and my pop passed 3 yrs ago now. He didn't know 'where" he was at in the cemetary. So my first thought when I saw the boy was, did they steal babies back then? I actually questioned my aunt on if she was sure that gram's baby died, or maybe she thought he died and someone took him. I know it was a far fetched thought, but there is something so familiar about him. We are in NJ and my grams family had come from the philly area (from what I know). Looking more into the case, the yrs wouldn't match up though for that. But that is what originally drew me to this case yrs ago.

I would like to go visit his grave, maybe one day I will. I know that they had said he wasn't from the one orphanage as his haircut didn't match. Now I thought the haircut did match and IMO that was the most likely scenario. If not, wouldn't a mother, father or grandparents have missed this beautiful boy? That has never made sense to me, unless of course they did kill him themselves. I've only ever seen the photos on that one website, and I visited the youtube video as well. Were there other photos released of him?
I know they did a clay recreation of what his father possibly looked like, did they ever do one of the mother? Also, the person who had supposedly seen someone in that area, a woman and boy or man..can't remember.. i guess they never gave a description?

How sad that such a beautiful boy was left out and thrown away like trash. Breaks my heart. I think I'll always follow this case, until it is solved or I'm gone. Also, some hospital must have records of surgeries back then too, I don't understand why nothing was ever found in regards to that.

[vadersbabe]

Motomom, I was drawn to him the first time I saw him on the Doe Network because he strongly resembles my first born son.

I still to this day have a hard time looking at him. It breaks my heart.

Have you checked out www.americasunknownchild.net (http://www.americasunknownchild.net)? There are other photos of him, but they are the coroner's photos and even though they're in black and white, they're still difficult to look at, at least for me.

They suspect the boy was somewhere between the ages of 4 and 6, so that would have put his year of birth between 1951 and 1953.

[Motomom649]

Motomom, I was drawn to him the first time I saw him on the Doe Network because he strongly resembles my first born son.

I still to this day have a hard time looking at him. It breaks my heart.

Have you checked out www.americasunknownchild.net (http://www.americasunknownchild.net)? There are other photos of him, but they are the coroner's photos and even though they're in black and white, they're still difficult to look at, at least for me.

They suspect the boy was somewhere between the ages of 4 and 6, so that would have put his year of birth between 1951 and 1953.


Yes, I was at that site. Has anyone read the book about this case? I was thinking of getting it for vacation.

[vadersbabe]

Motomom,

I am currently reading The Boy in the Box, America's Unknown Child by Jim Hoffman. The book was published in 2007 and I bought it I believe in November of 2007. (it takes me forever to finish a book).

Is there another book out there now?

[Cambria]

Motomom,

I am currently reading The Boy in the Box, America's Unknown Child by Jim Hoffman. The book was published in 2007 and I bought it I believe in November of 2007. (it takes me forever to finish a book).

Is there another book out there now?

Anthrobones posted above in post #132 that there will be a new book about the Boy in the Box released in September. I am looking forward to the new book..but don't know if there will be any new info.

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
May I please ask does anyone know any more about this book coming out?

suzanne

[vadersbabe]

Oh wow! I didn't realize there was another one coming out. I actually finished the book this afternoon. The story of "M" really intrigues me. Apparently, Joe McGillen, William Kelly and Tom Augustine really believed her story but the book indicates that their superiors didn't buy it b/c she had mental issues and b/c of the passage of time between her "confession" and the crime.

I would hope that the new book has more info. I thought I knew all there was to know! lol

[mere]

I just watched the story on AMW. I have been following the story on WS for years though. I am so happy that this case got some media attention, but it bothers me that there are so many old cases that get no attention because there is not a book coming out.

[Cambria]

Hi
May I please ask does anyone know any more about this book coming out?

suzanne

Suzanne, so far all I can find is the link anthrobones provided above about the book on amazon.com. Here's the link again. The book is supposed to be released September 2nd. You can preorder the book so it will ship immediately upon it's release.

http://www.amazon.com/Boy-Box-Unsolved-Americas-Child/dp/1599212692/ref=sr_1_65?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1208135733&sr=1-65

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Ok,Thankyou.I will.

suzanne

[thefragile7393]

Oh wow! I didn't realize there was another one coming out. I actually finished the book this afternoon. The story of "M" really intrigues me. Apparently, Joe McGillen, William Kelly and Tom Augustine really believed her story but the book indicates that their superiors didn't buy it b/c she had mental issues and b/c of the passage of time between her "confession" and the crime.

I would hope that the new book has more info. I thought I knew all there was to know! lol
I've long though that M's story is an extreme likelihood. It's sad that because of mental issues, she wasn't listened to. Just because someone has those issues dosn't mean that anything they say should be discredited, but sadly this is what happened.

[vadersbabe]

I totally agree with you, fragile.

[vadersbabe]

Ok....I have some news for all of you that are interested in this case. As you may know, a while back, I created a myspace page for America's Unknown Child. I have had many positive responses and I have had the privilege of meeting Louise Holmburg (a/k/a Aunt Wease), whose nephew, Lorne Boulet, went missing in July 2001. I know that there is a thread dedicated here to Lorne and his case....

Anyway, Wease suggested that a vigil be held for the boy on the anniversary that he was found. I think this is a brilliant idea.

I live in CA and Wease lives in NH. She has a lot of experience with organizing vigils and through the goodness of her heart, she is going to do so for the boy. I am going to help her as well.

My reason for posting this is to get the word out and to ask if there is anyone willing to help in this endeavor.

I believe that with effort and perserverance, we can keep this boy's case alive....

Thank you all for taking the time to read this. Please pm me if you have any suggestions!

Sincerely,
Nancy

[findlorne]

This is my first time on this thread.... I was always in the missing persons section ! Seems a little odd to be here, but elating at the same time.

This case is one that has always pulled at my heart-strings and I know that he needs his name. Someone ~ somewhere knows something.

I know that this whole vigil thing will need A LOT of looking into, but I am thinking of havin it on the anniversary date that this little guy was found...

vadersbabe has really given me some great insights as I sit down to write to her.

I don't know if a vigil will work, but I think anything is worth a try..... If the townspeople won't do it, let our country pull together!

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
I would very much like to go to this.Will this be in Pennsylvania?Can you please keep me informed of this?

suzanne

[Zanko]

Yes, keep us informed of this vigil!

[findlorne]

Definitely....... Nothing is in stone, just a thought at this point in time, but my mind is reeling and I have a few thoughts about somethings....... Will be talking with Vadersbabe tomorrow....:woohoo:

Pray for this Little Guy to get his man! We will work on it...... ALL of us! :blowkiss:

BTW: Yes, in PA, if they will allow it! I sure hope they do! I can throw a pretty big fit! :)

[believe09]

Definitely....... Nothing is in stone, just a thought at this point in time, but my mind is reeling and I have a few thoughts about somethings....... Will be talking with Vadersbabe tomorrow....:woohoo:

Pray for this Little Guy to get his man! We will work on it...... ALL of us! :blowkiss:

BTW: Yes, in PA, if they will allow it! I sure hope they do! I can throw a pretty big fit! :)

How coool-please let us know the details, because maybe we can get a sticky or announcement put on all of the forums so that everyone knows! This case encapsulates what WS is all about....

[findlorne]

We will...... we need to get ahold of the proper authorities, though I am hoping where I am not going to ask anything of them, that there will not be a problem.... Do as I would for a Missing Persons Case.

Contact the Media
Have Candles
Fliers
Law Enforcement to speak should they want to
Etc....

I just think that it has been far to long and every time that I write to Vadersbabe on Myspace she hits me with am idea........ she is like a lightening bolt that shoots through the screen....... watch out for her if you are on her myspace friends ~ I swear one of these times she is going to knock me off my seat with these brain surges......:eek:

[believe09]

We will...... we need to get ahold of the proper authorities, though I am hoping where I am not going to ask anything of them, that there will not be a problem.... Do as I would for a Missing Persons Case.

Contact the Media
Have Candles
Fliers
Law Enforcement to speak should they want to
Etc....

I just think that it has been far to long and every time that I write to Vadersbabe on Myspace she hits me with am idea........ she is like a lightening bolt that shoots through the screen....... watch out for her if you are on her myspace friends ~ I swear one of these times she is going to knock me off my seat with these brain surges......:eek:

Don't forget the VIDOQ Society-I am sure there are some that would like to participate. Check in with Filly, a poster here as well. I want to say that Filly has a contact that is very, very close to the case...

[vadersbabe]

Find Lorne wrote:
"I just think that it has been far to long and every time that I write to Vadersbabe on Myspace she hits me with am idea........ she is like a lightening bolt that shoots through the screen....... watch out for her if you are on her myspace friends ~ I swear one of these times she is going to knock me off my seat with these brain surges......:eek:"


Lol, Wease. You crack me up. I would have been nowhere on this if not for you. I am so thankful for your eagerness to help and your kind heart....

Believe,

I have already contacted the Vidocq Society and I await their response......Hopefully they will want to help and be involved. I have spoken, via email, with Joe McGillen on a few occasions so hopefully it will be him again that contacts me about this.

[findlorne]

I, too, have contacted the Vidocq Society and am very PATIENTLY checking my mailbox EVERY second of every day...

I am hoping to hear some positive feed back about this vigil. There is a lot to think about and plan ~ but the wheels are turned.

Please say a prayers and keep your fingers crossed!

Thank you all for the support! :grouphug::grouphug:

[Parker]

Hi Find Lorne and Vadersbabe. This case has always bothered me...would love to see this little guy get the identity he so deserves.

I just wanted to offer some help on this as I don't live far from Philadelphia (if that is where you plan on having this). My day job is public relations/media so let me know if I can help in that respect as well.

[vadersbabe]

Parker, thank you. I will pm you soon.

[vadersbabe]

I can't believe it, I actually spoke to William Kelly yesterday! Mr. Kelly is one of the original investigators on this case and he is also with the Vidocq Society. He is such a kind and generous soul.

He is more than happy to be present at the service, which will be held at the Ivy Hill Cemetery in Philly on February 25, 2009. Hopefully Joe McGillen will be able to attend as well.

This is really going to happen! Words cannot express how excited I am!

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
This is great news.Thankyou for keeping us posted.I really hope to go to this too.But I will have to see what happens.

suzanne

[Shecky]

A vigil is a lovely idea! I'm in California, so it is kind of doubtful I'd end up making the trip, but I'd certainly love to hear all about it and see pictures! This little guy has had a place in my heart since I first heard of him years ago.

[phenolred]

I had a thought on the Boys brusies on his legs, what if they werent bruises. I just saw someone who's vein had been infiltrated.

infiltration occurs when an I.V. needle or catheter becomes dislodged or the vein wall is disrupted. ...

I looks alot like the bruises on the boys legs. If someone were giving him shots in the legs they could have infiltrated his veins thus causing the brusing. I doubt at the time they were looking for needle marks near the bruises.

It would make sense based on all the other medical type treatments it appeared he had.

Here is a link to a pic of infiltrated vein....
http://stanishjohnd.wordpress.com/2007/09/25/why-i-wont-donate-at-zlb-bioplasma/

[BeavisMom62]

That could make sense, phenol. Especially if he had been subject to many medical treatments, ie injections, IV etc in the arms, particularly since he seemed so thin and sickly to begin with, his arm veins could have collapsed and they could have had to use his legs instead.

[badhorsie]

I came across some photos of this case-pic of box as it was found, with little boy inside, also terrible close up PM photos of his head, legs, arms, chest. He was severely beaten.
Has anyone else seen these? I could find it again.
Was the anonymous phone tip common knowledge when the mentally ill lady made her claim?

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
It looks like his little legs got most of the beatings.To me it looks like he died fighting trying to not get his hair cut.

suzanne

[badhorsie]

I agree, they look like hefty finger bruises on the little lad's forehead:(

[badhorsie]

I would go to the Vigil but obviously cannot! If I could send a card could someone pm me with details of where to send it. I'd like to do something for this little boy

[NJshrink]

I recently read the new book by David Stout "The Boy in the Box." What struck me is that the focus in the investigation seemed to be with whom the boy was living. This was during a time when Black Market baby selling was prevalent. Georgia Tann and Bessie Bernard were notorious baby sellers during that era. There was some notion that a young girl "Mary" reported her mother paying a couple in PA for the boy. While this may or may not be factual, it has been suggested that the boy may have been mentally retarded or handicapped. These children were harder to place illegally. I wonder if anyone tried to follow the leads of baby sellers. The records were often altered, however, there may be some siblings or parents trying to locate this "adopted" boy on-line.

[Filly]

I can't believe it, I actually spoke to William Kelly yesterday! Mr. Kelly is one of the original investigators on this case and he is also with the Vidocq Society. He is such a kind and generous soul.

He is more than happy to be present at the service, which will be held at the Ivy Hill Cemetery in Philly on February 25, 2009. Hopefully Joe McGillen will be able to attend as well.

This is really going to happen! Words cannot express how excited I am!

Vadersbabe, I just wanted to say that you and findlorne are such compassionate souls. Actually, everyone posting here is.

Can I ask that everyone remember in their prayers Detective Weinstein? Sadly Detective Weinstein passed away about two years ago. He was on Philly's police force for 35 years. My own father worked with him through most of his career and had great respect for him. Anytime it came up in the press or someone spoke of the little boy in the box my dad always reminded us just how Detective Weinstein was touched by this little boy and how he worked so hard to try and find the people responsible for leaving this little boy out in the cold, in a box, just discarded.

Hope it's O.K. I put this here. Detective Weinstein I know carried this with him his entire career and years after he retired. May he rest in peace. God willing I will definately be at the service. You guys rock. Know you are appreciated.

[believe09]

I received "The Boy in the Box: The Unsolved Case of America's Unknown Child" by David Stout yesterday and read it in two hours. I helped me mightily to get a better handle on the whispers of evidence and leads out there as well as what had been done to date. David Stout actually references a number of "throw away child" cases, including Riley Sawyer's.

I thought it was interesting that about 10 years ago the Philly ME took another look at the autopsy notes and concluded that the boy had likely had hernia surgery for potentially undescended testes-I had to laugh because I sent that to the Vidocq society in January as a tip...

In any case, it energized me-please read the book if you haven't already and maybe we can tighten up our focus to some under researched leads...I don't want to give away all of it's secrets, but I do think that there is a way for us to help. I still think that checking into the hemophilia angle might be worthwhile...

[Dr_Jimmy]

Does anyone know if the results from the toxicological analysis and microscopic examination are available online?

Only in the Jim Hoffman Book (ISBN 978-1-60008-034-051895) it mentions that "During the autopsy, blood and other body fluids, hair, gastric contents, and tissue samples from vital organs including the heart, liver, and lungs were extracted for toxicological analysis and microscopic examination."

Only I have never been able to find the results from these tests!

Does anyone know if they ever discussed the possibility of the boy dying from natural causes, only in the book it gives the cause of death as him being "beaton to death!" yet no bones were actually broken... surely if this was the case in someone so young something must have give way?

Due to the large number of bruises observed on his body and the fact that he did not have any apparent bone fractures, I personnally feel that he died from natural causes possibly due to an illness or disease such as Leukaemia, from some research that I did I found that in the 1950s, nearly all children with leukaemia died.

Common symptoms of leukaemia in 1950: -

• Fevers or night sweats
• Frequent infections
• Feeling weak or tired
• Headache
• Bleeding and bruising easily (bleeding gums, purplish patches in the skin, or tiny red spots under the skin)
• Pain in the bones or joints
• Swelling or discomfort in the abdomen (from an enlarged spleen)
• Swollen lymph nodes, especially in the neck or armpit
• Weight loss


It was observed during the post mortem that the boy suffered from some of the symptoms above, which might also account for the fact that no one ever saw the boy alive due to him being kept at home.

Was it ever discussed... only I have not read any discussions along these lines... either on this thread or in any of the books... unless I missed it some where...

[believe09]

Does anyone know if the results from the toxicological analysis and microscopic examination are available online?

Only in the Jim Hoffman Book (ISBN 978-1-60008-034-051895) it mentions that "During the autopsy, blood and other body fluids, hair, gastric contents, and tissue samples from vital organs including the heart, liver, and lungs were extracted for toxicological analysis and microscopic examination."

Only I have never been able to find the results from these tests!

Does anyone know if they ever discussed the possibility of the boy dying from natural causes, only in the book it gives the cause of death as him being "beaton to death!" yet no bones were actually broken... surely if this was the case in someone so young something must have give way?

Due to the large number of bruises observed on his body and the fact that he did not have any apparent bone fractures, I personnally feel that he died from natural causes possibly due to an illness or disease such as Leukaemia, from some research that I did I found that in the 1950s, nearly all children with leukaemia died.

Common symptoms of leukaemia in 1950: -

• Fevers or night sweats
• Frequent infections
• Feeling weak or tired
• Headache
• Bleeding and bruising easily (bleeding gums, purplish patches in the skin, or tiny red spots under the skin)
• Pain in the bones or joints
• Swelling or discomfort in the abdomen (from an enlarged spleen)
• Swollen lymph nodes, especially in the neck or armpit
• Weight loss


It was observed during the post mortem that the boy suffered from some of the symptoms above, which might also account for the fact that no one ever saw the boy alive due to him being kept at home.

Was it ever discussed... only I have not read any discussions along these lines... either on this thread or in any of the books... unless I missed it some where...

I am with you in this quest-In the David Stout book it indicated that the boy had head trauma-I have never seen anything other than the bruises across his forehead that spoke to that DX.

He had cut downs and hernia surgery-someone cared about this little boy at one point. I wonder if they have ever done the isotope testing that indicates where someone has lived??? Do I have the name of the test right?

[Dr_Jimmy]

I am of the opinion that this boy’s family probably had money/income at one time due to some of the marks on the boy’s body being consistent to him receiving medical treatment at some point, which would have had to been paid for by the family.

One such mark is the scar on the boy's left ankle, which looked like a "cut-down" incision. Such an incision is only made to expose a vein so that a needle may be inserted to give an infusion or transfusion.

But that the boy and his family were possible immigrants, who came over during or shortly after WW2, prior to the passing of the McCarran-Walter Act in June 1952 that imposed more rigid restrictions on entry quotas to the United States.

Due to 20 years of economic stagnation and WW2, suddenly the american economy was on an upswing and the job market was booming creating a surge in the number of people starting families causing a huge housing crisis.

This resulted in a nationwide trend referred to as “white flight” when upper and middle class families, enabled by nationwide improvements to infrastructure, left cities in favour of their surrounding suburbs.

This meant that the boy’s family might have only just moved into the area, so were possibly unknown to local residents, but if the boy was also extremely ill they might have had to sell there city appartment and find something smaller, hence they probably might not have been able to afford a decent funeral for him... and hoped that someone would quickly find him and give him a decent burial.

These are my personal thoughts on this subject and are open to discussion... I found whilst discussing this case at College the other week... everyone jumped to the same conclusion that he was "beaten to death" was he?

There are a number of different factors that can cause bruising to the body, and I do feel that the police let there personal opinions interfere with their judgement!

From the onset of the investigation there were no official cordons put in place and the scene was compromised by their being too many people wondering about disturbing the evidence. The Fire Rescue Squad No12 was also allowed access to the scene. Why?

Detective Joseph Tomaselli and twelve policemen searched the underbrush looking for evidence, mainly the boys clothing. Yet with all the rubbish found at the scene, very little evidence was actually collected and examined, why was this?

[Dr_Jimmy]

Hi Beleive09,

I am so pleased that I am not alone on this one... I did feel raising my head and saying what I did might have given people cause to feel upset and send me some non too polite comments back.

I think it is all too easy to jump on the same bandwagon and say he was tortored or beaten to death... but the evidence contradicts this theory!

I am sorry if this offends peoples theorys... but he was LOVED... we can only try and understand why he was left the way he was.

But he was washed and cleaned... almost ready for a burial... but something happend and this never occured...

What was the social aspect at the time... was there plenty of work in the area...

I am looking at this case from accross the sea's and can only read and find so much information... but someone living in the area at the same time might understand what the social climate was like far better than me...

[kitbits]

I am of the opinion that this boy’s family probably had money/income at one time due to some of the marks on the boy’s body being consistent to him receiving medical treatment at some point, which would have had to been paid for by the family.

One such mark is the scar on the boy's left ankle, which looked like a "cut-down" incision. Such an incision is only made to expose a vein so that a needle may be inserted to give an infusion or transfusion.

But that the boy and his family were possible immigrants, who came over during or shortly after WW2, prior to the passing of the McCarran-Walter Act in June 1952 that imposed more rigid restrictions on entry quotas to the United States.

Due to 20 years of economic stagnation and WW2, suddenly the american economy was on an upswing and the job market was booming creating a surge in the number of people starting families causing a huge housing crisis.

This resulted in a nationwide trend referred to as “white flight” when upper and middle class families, enabled by nationwide improvements to infrastructure, left cities in favour of their surrounding suburbs.

This meant that the boy’s family might have only just moved into the area, so were possibly unknown to local residents, but if the boy was also extremely ill they might have had to sell there city appartment and find something smaller, hence they probably might not have been able to afford a decent funeral for him... and hoped that someone would quickly find him and give him a decent burial.

These are my personal thoughts on this subject and are open to discussion... I found whilst discussing this case at College the other week... everyone jumped to the same conclusion that he was "beaten to death" was he?

There are a number of different factors that can cause bruising to the body, and I do feel that the police let there personal opinions interfere with their judgement!

From the onset of the investigation there were no official cordons put in place and the scene was compromised by their being too many people wondering about disturbing the evidence. The Fire Rescue Squad No12 was also allowed access to the scene. Why?

Detective Joseph Tomaselli and twelve policemen searched the underbrush looking for evidence, mainly the boys clothing. Yet with all the rubbish found at the scene, very little evidence was actually collected and examined, why was this?

Very interesting theories. Sadly, as I pointed out on the Black Dahlia post, investigations were pretty sloppy back then. It could be a case of ignorance & not know enough about forensics back then. Not sure why the firemen would have been there...nowadays, they do show up to various scenes in the US, partly because they are trained in first aid or can help with potentially difficult/violent patients, for example. But back then...hmmm...no...unless they needed the 'manpower' for searching the area? Honestly can't think of any other reason, unless it was 'standard procedure'.

Agreed that contusions can be caused by a number of factors & that they probably could have looked at other causes. Again, I think it is a sign of the times that they didn't look at the case from different angles & that they missed out on a lot of other potential evidence. Ignorance & prejudice don't get one very far!

Here is a blurb from pbs.org re. healthcare in 1950s US:

At the start of the decade, national health care expenditures are 4.5 percent of the Gross National Product.

Attention turns to Korea and away from health reform; America will have a system of private insurance for those who can afford it and welfare services for the poor.

Federal responsibility for the sick poor is firmly established.

Many legislative proposals are made for different approaches to hospital insurance, but none succeed.

Many more medications are available now to treat a range of diseases, including infections, glaucoma, and arthritis, and new vaccines become available that prevent dreaded childhood diseases, including polio. The first successful organ transplant is performed.

[Dr_Jimmy]

Sad but true...

How times have changed!

Here is something else to ponder over...

D.N.A. sampling did not exist in 1957, when the body was exhumed for analysis on the 3rd November 1998. The remains were far too degraded to permit extraction of viable nuclear DNA.

Mitochondrial DNA from the boy's tooth and a fragment of bone taken from his arm was successfully extracted on the 16th October 2000.

Although a mitochondrial DNA profile is more limited than a nuclear DNA profile, due to it only being passed on from his mother and containing none of the fathers DNA. It is however more abundant in the body and can be used to confirm or rule out a genetic relationship through maternal lineage.

However as of yet no match has been found.

What are the chances of a relative ever appearing on the American DNA Database (CODIS), he might have been an only child... so chances are everything died with him... but has his mtDNA ever been sent to other countries in the world that also has a DNA Database... if he was an immigrant then he might still have family in Germany - Ireland - etc

[badhorsie]

I would go to the Vigil but obviously cannot! If I could send a card could someone pm me with details of where to send it. I'd like to do something for this little boy


And I would like to send a card and light a candle here in England for this dear little lad who haunts me :boohoo:

[badhorsie]

Sorry for my ignorance but does anyone know the cause of death on the death cert.?:crazy:

[kitbits]

hey, dr jimmy--yep! good ol' dna :) but yeah, what's the use if no one is around for comparisons :( still...old cold cases do get solved, so...*fingers crossed*

& yes, badhorsie...no doubt...poor little mite :( i really hope he finds a 'home' in our lifetime.

[amethyst]

Though I agree that economic downturns could have affected a family's ability to give the child a proper burial, I still can't see leaving him in a cardboard box amongst the trash.

[kitbits]

Though I agree that economic downturns could have affected a family's ability to give the child a proper burial, I still can't see leaving him in a cardboard box amongst the trash.

That bit does bother me, so I do have to agree with your point, amethyst. The city surely would have taken on that responsibility for the family.

[believe09]

:blowkiss: Oh I am completely with you and have been since I started digging into his case-if you go back into the thread DR, you will see where I started digging into ethnic burial rituals to see if that explained the washing and haircut. I found an obscure sect of Judaism that migrated to the Philly area in the 40's and 50's and thought that this might be an answer-then I was told by someone close to the case that one of the detectives had explored that avenue as well in the 60's-talk about reinventing the wheel,lol!!!

Hi Beleive09,

I am so pleased that I am not alone on this one... I did feel raising my head and saying what I did might have given people cause to feel upset and send me some non too polite comments back.

I think it is all too easy to jump on the same bandwagon and say he was tortored or beaten to death... but the evidence contradicts this theory!

I am sorry if this offends peoples theorys... but he was LOVED... we can only try and understand why he was left the way he was.

But he was washed and cleaned... almost ready for a burial... but something happend and this never occured...

What was the social aspect at the time... was there plenty of work in the area...

I am looking at this case from accross the sea's and can only read and find so much information... but someone living in the area at the same time might understand what the social climate was like far better than me...

[believe09]

Sorry for my ignorance but does anyone know the cause of death on the death cert.?:crazy:

IIRC in David Stout's book it is listed as blunt force trauma to the head. I keep going back to the 360 degrees we have of him online and in print and cannot see where this is the case-BUT of course one of the original detectives would carry the XRAYS of his head and a plaster cast of his face in his suitcase, so there must be something to it...I wish some of that would be made public, but I suppose if VIDOQ cannot dispel this as a COD, then myself as an armchair detective could not either.

I would love to see if they could do some genetic testing to see if he had hemophilia or leukemia or something else....

[Dr_Jimmy]

Don't get me wrong... I feel leaving him in the box the way they did was wrong, but I do feel that they were on route to bury the child somewhere more private when perhaps they got disturbed... or just got too scared...

What were the feelings at the time towards the immigrants by the police or local community... if it was an accidental death... could they have feared going to the police?

Are we sure that what they presumed was a blunt force trauma to the head, was in fact just lividity, I think we can all safely say that due to the lividity marks being fixed the boy had been dead for at least 12 hours...

How many murders would they have seen back then... I imagine to even find one was pretty rare back then!

[believe09]

All good points-I do believe in my heart that there was a natural fear of the police in the immigrant community-Filly can speak a little more to that when she hops back onto the thread.

I do not believe that they thought the child was trash-I think that they were frightened or unsure of what to do with him so left him. Vashley ( I think??) and I had an animated discussion regarding whether or not the bruising across his forehead were fingerprints or from ECT-I have to believe that the autopsy photos of his brain might give a clue to whether or not he was being treated with ECT.

Don't get me wrong... I feel leaving him in the box the way they did was wrong, but I do feel that they were on route to bury the child somewhere more private when perhaps they got disturbed... or just got too scared...

What were the feelings at the time towards the immigrants by the police or local community... if it was an accidental death... could they have feared going to the police?

Are we sure that what they presumed was a blunt force trauma to the head, was in fact just lividity, I think we can all safely say that due to the lividity marks being fixed the boy had been dead for at least 12 hours...

How many murders would they have seen back then... I imagine to even find one was pretty rare back then!

[Blackwatch]

Don't get me wrong... I feel leaving him in the box the way they did was wrong, but I do feel that they were on route to bury the child somewhere more private when perhaps they got disturbed... or just got too scared...

What were the feelings at the time towards the immigrants by the police or local community... if it was an accidental death... could they have feared going to the police?

Are we sure that what they presumed was a blunt force trauma to the head, was in fact just lividity, I think we can all safely say that due to the lividity marks being fixed the boy had been dead for at least 12 hours...

How many murders would they have seen back then... I imagine to even find one was pretty rare back then!

I was a child during that era, in the next state, and health care was definitely NOT the nighmare it has become. Almost everyone could get fixed up without breaking the bank; therefore, it would have been within the reach of almost everyone to take proper care of your child - even burial arrangements.

As for how many murders back then, well, being in proximity to Philadelphia, I'd venture a guess that the police were somewhat knowledgable, BUT, not in the way they are today. Back then NO police force had the tools, or understanding, of today's criminal procedures. By today's standards it was very primitive, at best.

I like your idea of an immigrant child, not sure it's true, but I like it. To me the child has always looked to be of pure German or Scandanavian descent. However, that was at the tail-end of the great immigration and many families still held almost pure genetics. It would be hard to tell how long the family had been in this country. When I was growing up there were still a FEW immigrants coming into the area but not nearly as many who had almost entirely settled the area in the preceeding 40-50 years. Many, if not most of our neighborhood, and neighboring ones, was composed of immigrant families from a variety of European nations. Even so, a FEW were still straggling in. My grandfather, who spoke several languages, often helped them to settle in.

I remember hearing stories about the "odd" customs of our immigrant neighbors. For instance, the men who did the work, would eat well, and the women and children would dine on scraps or lesser cuts. Many of the immigrant men were used to lording it over women and would try exercising their "rights" in public by insulting or threatening women whom they felt did not show them proper respect.

All in all, it was an interesting time. Not sure I helped much, but thing were way different back then.

[Dr_Jimmy]

It's nice to have a more social understanding of events...

Where I live I did not see anyone from another country till my early teens... there where families in Birmingham that moved there during the 1960's, but that was 20 miles away and we had no need to venture into the city... late 1980's early 1990's it suddenly became more apparent especially when I started work and attended college on a regular basis in 1993.

It was like where the hell did these people come from....

[christine2448]

I just want to 'jump in' and thank each of you for keeping this case ALIVE. Interesting posts...the more we talk and research the more likely someone will stumble upon this and we will get answers.

This is definitely one that haunts me.

Welcome Newbies! Nice to have new 'eyes'.

Dr. J.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/WELCOMETOWSBLUE.gif

[amethyst]

There are so many articles to read. So many theories. I am struck by the thought that he may have been presented as a girl. As I study the photos, the oval bruises on his forehead could have been the result of his eyebrows being forcibly plucked. They do appear to have been plucked to me. But why have him look like a girl-what reasons would there be for that? I haven't found anything yet about any searches for missing girls and I wonder if that was done at any length. Such a captivating story. Apparently I did just fall off the turnip wagon because I had not heard about this until I read this thread.

[Julespa]

I just wanted to Bump this thread and also tell everyone that I live in the Philly area and on KYW1060 (news radio) I heard a little thing about the vigil for the little boy. I didn't catch it in full since I was in my car driving and mostly had the radio on for traffic reports and background noise. At least he is getting some media attention. I am going to go back and dig throught the thread to see if there is anything posted on the time and date for this vigil, I would like to attend if possible. Lets hope that some answers are found for him.

[christine2448]

Wednesday, August 06, 2008

Vigil/Memorial Service for America’s Unknown Child
February 25, 2009 will mark the 52nd anniversary of the discovery of America's Unknown Child, originally known as The Boy in the Box.

With the help of Louise Holmburg (www. myspace. com/findlorne (http://www.msplinks.com/MDFodHRwOi8vd3d3Lm15c3BhY2UuY29tL2ZpbmRsb3JuZQ==)) , we are organizing a vigil/memorial service to be held for the little boy at the Ivy Hill Cemetery in Philadelphia, PA on February 25, 2009.

I am beyond ecstatic that I will finally have the opportunity after all these years, to visit his gravesite and pay my respects. Louise and I are getting many positive responses from people who have an emotional attachment to this little boy's plight and it is our hope that many will join us for the service.

It is also our hope that we will have plenty media coverage and that our boy and his unsolved case will get back out there in the public's eye.

This little boy deserves a name.

Thank you!
***Edited to add: This undertaking is in the preliminary stages; as we have more information and a finalization of our plans, it will be posted.***

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=393302787&blogID=422062315

[badhorsie]

Having trained in Psych nursing, I have never seen or heard of ECT causing marks like that, but who knows what went on:confused:

[believe09]

Having trained in Psych nursing, I have never seen or heard of ECT causing marks like that, but who knows what went on:confused:

OOOOO-I have a question-can you tell by the brain if someone has had ECT? I mean is it more withered, etc...am I making any sense?

[Julespa]

Here is the article I found on KYW106's website if anyone is interested in regards to the vigil that was held today. At first when I heard it on the radio I thought they were referring to the vigil in February. The article has a picture of his grave, I am happy to see so many people gathered there and that he does have a proper burial although no name :(


http://www.kyw1060.com/-Boy-in-a-Box--Honored-with-10-Year-Anniversary-Ce/3298547

[christine2448]

Here is the article I found on KYW106's website if anyone is interested in regards to the vigil that was held today. At first when I heard it on the radio I thought they were referring to the vigil in February. The article has a picture of his grave, I am happy to see so many people gathered there and that he does have a proper burial although no name :(


http://www.kyw1060.com/-Boy-in-a-Box--Honored-with-10-Year-Anniversary-Ce/3298547

Thanks Julespa! So, they had one today and will have another in Feb??

Picture from Julespa link:

http://imgsrv.kyw1060.com/image/DbGraphic/200811/1108383.jpg

[vadersbabe]

Wow, I've been gone too long and I don't know where to begin.

First and foremost, Filly, thank you very much for the reminder about Sam Weinstein. I have added his name to my myspace page.

I have contacted KWY1060 to let them know about the next vigil and requested that they give it some coverage. Hopefully I will hear back from them soon.

I am also in contact with a friend who is a journalist in Harrisburg. Hopefully she will help me out as far as getting the word out about this vigil.

As an aside, I wanted to address Dr. Jimmy's posts concerning the cause of death. When I spoke to Bill Kelly, he told me that this child did in fact die from head trauma. I just don't see the natural causes theory here. But, I guess anything is possible. Mr. Kelly did tell me to continue to have hope; that the case is active in the Philadelphia PD and they are investigating a new lead. That was all he would tell me.

Ok, so now I am off to pm Parker.

[vadersbabe]

Ok, this kind of freaked me out, and I would appreciate anyone's opinion...

I received this message on my myspace regarding AUC:

Hello Nancy,

I am a team member of the Worldwide Missing Persons Search page, and only wish to offer help with what I hear. I offer this thru my heart for any help it may bring to you in your search and for comfort in your heart for such a dear little lad. I do not see the names, I hear them, and so spelling may be variant of actual. I have not been familiar with this photo before, and only share what I see, hear and feel. I wish to thank you for the fine and fitting tribute that has been gifted this child, as they are truly our greatest gifts from God.

Name or Names Heard with location:

Timothy Algers (child)
Fred Algers (father)
Hear a name Amee Ann Algers, but not sure of relation (mother, sister, relative)

I hear Military and Authoritarian figure, if searching within records for this may help.

I pray that this may help the quest for the caring memory of this child, on behalf of the Worldwide Missing Persons Search team...

Love In Light,

~ Crystal

The temptation to bring this to the authority's attention is there, but I don't know how they would receive it. And, the military part intrigues me...Would there be a way to research military records on this child's possible father and can a connection be made, especially since there is a bust made up of what the child's father may have looked like.

[Cambria]

Did anyone ever get the book on this case that was released last September? I'm going to see if my library has it before I buy it but I would like to read it.

http://www.amazon.com/Boy-Box-Unsolved-Americas-Child/dp/1599212692/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231513860&sr=1-1

[mae]

Ok, this kind of freaked me out, and I would appreciate anyone's opinion...

I received this message on my myspace regarding AUC:

Hello Nancy,

I am a team member of the Worldwide Missing Persons Search page, and only wish to offer help with what I hear. I offer this thru my heart for any help it may bring to you in your search and for comfort in your heart for such a dear little lad. I do not see the names, I hear them, and so spelling may be variant of actual. I have not been familiar with this photo before, and only share what I see, hear and feel. I wish to thank you for the fine and fitting tribute that has been gifted this child, as they are truly our greatest gifts from God.

Name or Names Heard with location:

Timothy Algers (child)
Fred Algers (father)
Hear a name Amee Ann Algers, but not sure of relation (mother, sister, relative)

I hear Military and Authoritarian figure, if searching within records for this may help.

I pray that this may help the quest for the caring memory of this child, on behalf of the Worldwide Missing Persons Search team...

Love In Light,

~ Crystal

The temptation to bring this to the authority's attention is there, but I don't know how they would receive it. And, the military part intrigues me...Would there be a way to research military records on this child's possible father and can a connection be made, especially since there is a bust made up of what the child's father may have looked like.

Interesting thoughts. I wonder if anything came of it, or if they were original suspects or people questioned.

[believe09]

Did anyone ever get the book on this case that was released last September? I'm going to see if my library has it before I buy it but I would like to read it.

http://www.amazon.com/Boy-Box-Unsolved-Americas-Child/dp/1599212692/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231513860&sr=1-1

SO worth the read...I LOVED it and the detail I had not read previously was fascinating.

[LucyJack]

This one of the saddest stories I've ever heard. Such a beautiful boy. I hope someone comes forward with some information that will solve this case once and for all.

[Laura_Bean]

1. Bumping up

2. Glad someone put this child up

3. I find it hard to believe that some would allow the child to live for 4 to 6 yrs if they were terrified of having people find out about the child... Why kill the child when it was 4 to 6 yrs of age? There were illegal abortions back than... You could pay to have someone do it, and if you were too scared to have an abortion but didn't want a child, there were orphanages... Not hard to drop a newborn off there... Not hard to drop a small child off there... It makes me think this child was wanted.

So.... Why kill the child? With the extent of the damage on the baby, it makes it hard to believe that this was a "One time only" incident. Also, if the child WAS being abused all the time, why would they take the child to a doctor? Why spend the money if you don't care about the child?

What about this... Here is an idea. There are diseases that can cause huge damage. What I mean is there are children whose bones are brittle and they break easily, children who have problems that make them bruise easily, etc. Could the child have had those? And back than, would it be found on an autopsy? Could they tell if the child had those problems?

Just wondering some things here.

[Laura_Bean]

Has any1 checked this child out from the Doe network?


Steven Craig Damman
Missing since October 31, 1955 from East Meadow, Nassau County, New York.
Classification: Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: December 1952
Age at Time of Disappearance: 2 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 3'2"; 32 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Blonde hair; blue eyes.
Marks, Scars: Small scar under chin. Healed fracture on left arm. Molelike birthmark on back of right calf.
Medical Conditions: Steven had been under treatment for a kidney growth at the time he went missing.
Other: Footprints available


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Circumstances of Disappearance
Steven Damman's mother left her home in East Meadow, New York on October 31, 1955 to go to a supermarket a block and a half away.
She had her son Steven, age 34 months and her daughter Pamela, age 7 months with Pamela strapped into a baby carriage with her. She left her daughter in the carriage out in front of the store with her son standing beside it while she did her shopping. When she came back ten minutes later, both the carriage and her children were gone.
Her daughter and the carriage were later recovered unharmed by a family friend a block and a half away.
Despite a massive search involving more than a thousand persons, Steven was never seen again.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[believe09]

1. Bumping up

2. Glad someone put this child up

3. I find it hard to believe that some would allow the child to live for 4 to 6 yrs if they were terrified of having people find out about the child... Why kill the child when it was 4 to 6 yrs of age? There were illegal abortions back than... You could pay to have someone do it, and if you were too scared to have an abortion but didn't want a child, there were orphanages... Not hard to drop a newborn off there... Not hard to drop a small child off there... It makes me think this child was wanted.

So.... Why kill the child? With the extent of the damage on the baby, it makes it hard to believe that this was a "One time only" incident. Also, if the child WAS being abused all the time, why would they take the child to a doctor? Why spend the money if you don't care about the child?

What about this... Here is an idea. There are diseases that can cause huge damage. What I mean is there are children whose bones are brittle and they break easily, children who have problems that make them bruise easily, etc. Could the child have had those? And back than, would it be found on an autopsy? Could they tell if the child had those problems?

Just wondering some things here.

Hi!! I have been wishing that some genetic testing could be done on The Boy simply because I think it might narrow down some of these questions-one of my theories is that he was a hemophiliac due to the cut down scars. Some of the hospitals in Philly were known at the time for being cutting edge with hemophiliac patients, IIRC.

I wonder if the evolution of YDNA testing will allow for samples to be taken from bone to determine his possible surname? I am also hoping for isotope analysis of his teeth to narrow down where he might have lived prior to dying.

[Sporky]

Has any1 checked this child out from the Doe network?


Steven Craig Damman
Missing since October 31, 1955 from East Meadow, Nassau County, New York.
Classification: Missing



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: December 1952
Age at Time of Disappearance: 2 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 3'2"; 32 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Blonde hair; blue eyes.
Marks, Scars: Small scar under chin. Healed fracture on left arm. Molelike birthmark on back of right calf.
Medical Conditions: Steven had been under treatment for a kidney growth at the time he went missing.
Other: Footprints available


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Circumstances of Disappearance
Steven Damman's mother left her home in East Meadow, New York on October 31, 1955 to go to a supermarket a block and a half away.
She had her son Steven, age 34 months and her daughter Pamela, age 7 months with Pamela strapped into a baby carriage with her. She left her daughter in the carriage out in front of the store with her son standing beside it while she did her shopping. When she came back ten minutes later, both the carriage and her children were gone.
Her daughter and the carriage were later recovered unharmed by a family friend a block and a half away.
Despite a massive search involving more than a thousand persons, Steven was never seen again.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It says on his doe network profile http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/d/damman_steven.html
That they compaired his DNA to the boy in the box and he was ruled out as a match.

[Laura_Bean]

That could explain something. if the child WAS a hemophiliac and the child was being treated in Philadelphia, it could mean that the child was not LIVING in Philadelphia but was from a surrounding area. If this is true, and the child was not from Philadelphia, it could explain why no one called in to claim they knew the child or that they had seen the child. Now, here is an interesting theory.

Let's say a woman and her husband have this child. We will assume that they had money, because treatments at a good hospital with cutting edge treatments available wouldn't be cheap, nor would it be cheap to take the child to Philadelphia if they lived furthur away. The woman would be taking the train probably, a good mode of transportantion back than, to and from the city for treatments for the child. Odds are, that would be the woman's only child because she would have to be able to take her child to Philadelphia for treatments on a regular basis. Also I would suggest definitly the mother is a "homemaker". Someone who had the time and didn't have to work in order to get her child to these treatments.

Okay regressing here sorry. So she is taking her son to and from these treatments, she has money, her husband works and she is probably taking the train or the bus to and from the treatments. Now... Perhaps the hospital is offering a new form of treatment something probably experimental and something goes wrong. The hospital would never want to get in trouble for making a mistake like that, or get in trouble for trying this treatment on a child. Perhaps the mother even begged them to try this new "experimental treatment" because she wanted her son to get better. And than something goes terribly wrong and the child dies.

Just a theory.

[Laura_Bean]

Bruising all over the body :::


Many Americans eat insufficient amounts of foods containing vitamin C; bruising is caused by vitamin C deficiency that is scurvy. While very few people actually have scurvy, even minor deficiencies of vitamin C can increase bruising. People who experience easy bruising may want to try eating more fruits and vegetables—common dietary sources of vitamin C. Doctors can assess the diet by using a diet diary, sometimes accompanied by computerized diet analysis. A diet diary is a written record of what and how much a person is eating, usually divided into sections by meal and/or day. As used by many doctors, diet diaries lasting one week are most common. If such an analysis reveals a lack of dietary vitamin C and flavonoids (related compounds), the diet requires more fruits and vegetables to correct the problem.

[ilovemew]

Why would the person cut the boys hair after death? What were they trying to hide? Also I think I noticed in this link: http://americasunknownchild.net/default.htm there is the 2 pictures of the boy dressed in clothes. One of his right side, one of his left side. It looks like only one side of his head has been shaved. The other side still looks like it has hair. It is an old photograph and black and white so it's hard to tell. I was just thinking that was so weird. Any thoughts?

[Laura_Bean]

The local police dept took it upon themselves to dress the dead body in clothes that were normal for a child to wear and sat him up. The idea was, with him wearing clothing, he would be more "recognizable" and someone would be more apt to identify him. One side of his head does look shaved. I've been wondering about that myself. Either a mother went to cut his hair to make him look nice in death, perhaps she was interupted or just did it in a hurry and made mistakes. If your child just died and you felt a need to cut his hair, you'd be crying and upset and it wouldn't look very good.

The other idea is perhaps he was going in for yet another surgery and the doctor thought the child needed relief on the brain. If they were going to do some sort of brain surgery to relieve pressure on the brain, they would shave him, and usually just the side they were going to cut into. He may have died before they got a chance to relieve the pressure, but after they had shaved the area.

[Laura_Bean]

No DNA has ever been able to be extracted from the child's body. I just read about it. They have tried but the body was so badly deteriorated they were unable to extract any DNA. There is no 100% way to rule out the Daman boy. So I wonder what made LE rule him out? Any ideas there?

[Laura_Bean]

Never mind just found this sorry about the misinformation



April 2001 the investigators announced a major breakthrough in the case: An independent laboratory finally obtained a mitochondrial DNA profile from the unknown boy's teeth. (Most of the following E mail messages and responses were written prior to that announcement.)

The investigators plan to compare the boy's DNA profile against tissue samples they hope to obtain from individuals who either claim to be, or who are suspected of being related to the unknown boy. Such tests should confirm or, alternatively, rule out any alleged relationship.

[ilovemew]

The local police dept took it upon themselves to dress the dead body in clothes that were normal for a child to wear and sat him up. The idea was, with him wearing clothing, he would be more "recognizable" and someone would be more apt to identify him. One side of his head does look shaved. I've been wondering about that myself. Either a mother went to cut his hair to make him look nice in death, perhaps she was interupted or just did it in a hurry and made mistakes. If your child just died and you felt a need to cut his hair, you'd be crying and upset and it wouldn't look very good.

The other idea is perhaps he was going in for yet another surgery and the doctor thought the child needed relief on the brain. If they were going to do some sort of brain surgery to relieve pressure on the brain, they would shave him, and usually just the side they were going to cut into. He may have died before they got a chance to relieve the pressure, but after they had shaved the area.

IMO someone who dumps their child in a box on the side of the road doesn't care enough to cut their hair first but CA :sick: (allegedly-do I have to write that here?) put a heart sticker on her little girls mouth before dumping her so who knows... I was also thinking that maybe he hadn't been taken care of and his hair was long and matty and dirty and his nails too. Maybe that is why they felt the need to clean him up first. Maybe they feared if they got caught they could at least say they took good care of him (until they "lost it" and got angry that one time.) IDK there's so many possibilities but I've never heard of someone shaving part of the hair off after death like that. I was just thinking maybe if we figured that out it could lead us to another clue.

[Laura_Bean]

Okay so I had a thought late last night laying in bed and thinking about this case before I drifted to sleep. No animals had touched the body. This is significant because it shows a time of the body being put there. The body had to have been found pretty quickly after being dumped. However, the coroner said that the boy had been dead two weeks. So where was the body? I had an idea. My family is part Irish. When my great grandma died she had a wake. That is where the body sits out for a while for people to come and say goodbye to. What if this boy's family was Irish? Back than wakes were generally in a person's home, and the body could lay there for weeks before being taken to be buried. So why no burial? If the family did not have money, the wake would not cost anything, they would just lay his body on a couch or in his bed, and when the wake was over, well if they couldn't afford a burial the box and the blanket would have to suffice. Another thought, the child was naked except for the blanket. Perhaps the child was scheduled to have surgery done on his brain, and was wearing a hospital gown. The hospital may have insisted on taking off the hospital gown, because they knew it would be traced back to them if left on the body. As a mother, I am not sure if I could bring myself to dress my dead child. Perhaps the mother just decided to wrap him in a blanket instead of trying to dress her son's dead body.

[Julessleuther]

I wonder if they could do the DNA test like they did for Benjamin Kyle, where they could determine the boys lineage, or isotope testing on his teeth to determine where he lived before death??Never mind just found this sorry about the misinformation



April 2001 the investigators announced a major breakthrough in the case: An independent laboratory finally obtained a mitochondrial DNA profile from the unknown boy's teeth. (Most of the following E mail messages and responses were written prior to that announcement.)

The investigators plan to compare the boy's DNA profile against tissue samples they hope to obtain from individuals who either claim to be, or who are suspected of being related to the unknown boy. Such tests should confirm or, alternatively, rule out any alleged relationship.

[ilovemew]

Okay so I had a thought late last night laying in bed and thinking about this case before I drifted to sleep. No animals had touched the body. This is significant because it shows a time of the body being put there. The body had to have been found pretty quickly after being dumped. However, the coroner said that the boy had been dead two weeks. So where was the body? I had an idea. My family is part Irish. When my great grandma died she had a wake. That is where the body sits out for a while for people to come and say goodbye to. What if this boy's family was Irish? Back than wakes were generally in a person's home, and the body could lay there for weeks before being taken to be buried. So why no burial? If the family did not have money, the wake would not cost anything, they would just lay his body on a couch or in his bed, and when the wake was over, well if they couldn't afford a burial the box and the blanket would have to suffice. Another thought, the child was naked except for the blanket. Perhaps the child was scheduled to have surgery done on his brain, and was wearing a hospital gown. The hospital may have insisted on taking off the hospital gown, because they knew it would be traced back to them if left on the body. As a mother, I am not sure if I could bring myself to dress my dead child. Perhaps the mother just decided to wrap him in a blanket instead of trying to dress her son's dead body.

Oh wow, I thought I was pretty read up on this case but that is the first time I have heard that he was dead for 2 weeks before he was put there. That does change things. Hmmm...

[LucyJack]

i just wonder what made them rule out that fostor family? Did they just take people's word for it back then when they said "that's not my son" Another sad thing is if there is any truth to margaret's claim that her mother bought the boy and killed him - there would be no way to prove it. Her DNA wouldn't be a match to his becuase they are biological siblings. It so frustrating - there were so many dead ends in this case.

[Shecky]

Okay so I had a thought late last night laying in bed and thinking about this case before I drifted to sleep. No animals had touched the body. This is significant because it shows a time of the body being put there. The body had to have been found pretty quickly after being dumped. However, the coroner said that the boy had been dead two weeks. So where was the body? I had an idea. My family is part Irish. When my great grandma died she had a wake. That is where the body sits out for a while for people to come and say goodbye to. What if this boy's family was Irish? Back than wakes were generally in a person's home, and the body could lay there for weeks before being taken to be buried. So why no burial? If the family did not have money, the wake would not cost anything, they would just lay his body on a couch or in his bed, and when the wake was over, well if they couldn't afford a burial the box and the blanket would have to suffice. Another thought, the child was naked except for the blanket. Perhaps the child was scheduled to have surgery done on his brain, and was wearing a hospital gown. The hospital may have insisted on taking off the hospital gown, because they knew it would be traced back to them if left on the body. As a mother, I am not sure if I could bring myself to dress my dead child. Perhaps the mother just decided to wrap him in a blanket instead of trying to dress her son's dead body.

Bold by me.

Actually, the original poster featured on americasunknownchild.net says that death occurred anywhere from three days to two weeks prior to discovery. So while it is possible he'd been deceased for that long, it isn't a definite fact.

Not that your theory isn't a possible one, just trying to keep the facts straight.

If someone has a source that contradicts the info on the original poster found here: http://americasunknownchild.net/Poster.htm, please feel free to correct me. (just a warning, said poster features pictures of the deceased boys face. If such images bother you.)

[Shecky]

Did anyone ever get the book on this case that was released last September? I'm going to see if my library has it before I buy it but I would like to read it.

http://www.amazon.com/Boy-Box-Unsolved-Americas-Child/dp/1599212692/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231513860&sr=1-1

I actually just finished it tonight! Very well written and brought me up to date on some case developments that I hadn't been aware of.

For example, in October of 2007, DNA results finally proved that Anna Marie Nagle (the daughter/step-daughter of the couple who ran the foster home nearby) was not the mother of the unknown boy.

For those unfamiliar with this angle of the mystery, there is some information about the foster family in the case summary on americasunknownchild.net: http://americasunknownchild.net/summary.htm

There is also some discussion about the foster home here,: http://americasunknownchild.net/FosterFamily.html

If anyone has questions about the book or the information in it, I'd be glad to discuss it.

[Laura_Bean]

If this child had autism has anyone considered this man as a culprit?

Bruno Bettelheim
(1903-1990)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bruno Bettelheim (August 28, 1903 - March 13, 1990) was a writer and child psychologist. When his father died, he had to leave university to take care of the family lumber business. After ten years, he did go back, however, and earned a degree in philosophy, writing a dissertation relating to the history of art. He was interested in psychology for much of his life but never studied it formally.

As a Jew in Austria, he spent time in the concentration camps, but his way was bought out, as was possible before the war started, and he went to the United States. Here he eventually set himself up as a professor of psychology. He was able to claim that he had the relevant training because the Nazis were destroying the records.

He spent the most significant part of his life as director of the Orthogenic School at the University of Chicago, a home for emotionally disturbed children. He wrote books on both normal and abnormal child psychology, and was well respected by many during his lifetime. His book, The Uses of Enchantment, recast fairy tales in terms of the strictest Freudian psychology, sometimes to unintentionally hilarious effect.

He suffered from depression throughout his life, and committed suicide in 1990, six years after his wife died of cancer.

After his suicide, evidence of Bettelheim's dark side began to emerge. Although many of his counsellors at the Orthogenic School considered him brilliant and admirable, others began to openly question his work and to call him a cruel tyrant. Although untrained in analysis, Bettelheim was a Freudian fundamentalist. Bettelheim was convinced, in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that autism had no organic basis but was caused entirely by cold mothers, who he dubbed "refrigerator mothers," and absent fathers. "All my life," he wrote, "I have been working with children whose lives have been destroyed because their mothers hated them." Other Freudian analysts, as well as scientists who were not psychiatrists, followed Bettelheim in blaming mothers for their child's autism. This view is now regarded as erroneous, and Bettelheim's work is discredited.

Stories of this man beating the children at the school have come to light. He is said to have been cruel, harsh, and would beat children there. He was said to have exploded in screaming anger at students, and to have gone beyond firm treatment to corporal punishment or abuse. That could explain bruises upon bruises on this child.

IN his last book, "Freud's Vienna and Other Essays," the legendary child psychologist Bruno Bettelheim recounts how, as a young analyst in training, he was deeply influenced by a severely disturbed child he used to see in his own analyst's waiting room. The child, he writes, taught him the importance of listening, of putting yourself in the mind of a patient so as to understand the deep reasons for abnormal behavior. It was a lesson that Dr. Bettelheim, the longtime head of Chicago's renowned Sonia Shankman Orthogenic School for emotionally disturbed children, used to create an environment known for being nurturing, supportive and full of love.

When Bettelheim took his own life last March at the age of 86, the obituaries stressed the greatness of the man and his pioneering methods. But the praise has now led to a powerful reverse current, with the psychiatrist portrayed not as a dedicated man of wisdom, but as a megalomaniacal tyrant who systematically abused children, undermined their self-confidence, and publicly humiliated and beat them. The angry charges, made by former patients and at least one former counselor at the school, question not only Bettelheim's judgment but his honesty.

One contention of the critics -- hotly contested by therapists who worked with Bettelheim -- is that some of his patients were never as desperately sick as he said they were. Bettelheim, they say, set himself up as a kind of judge and jury at the school, never submitting his diagnoses or assessments of cures to peer review.


The opening salvo seems to have been fired by Alida Jatich, a resident of the school from 1966 to 1973 and now a computer programmer in Chicago. "Bettelheim's public persona, carefully constructed in his many books and articles," was utterly wrong, she wrote in The Chicago Reader, a weekly newspaper. "In person, he was an evil man who set up his school as a private empire and himself as a demigod or cult leader. He bullied, awed, and terrorized the children at his school, their parents, school staff members, his graduate students and anyone else who came into contact with him."

Defenders of Bettelheim have come forward, many of them former counselors at the Orthogenic School, which he directed from 1944 to 1973. Most of them, in letters and conversation, allow that Bettelheim was a blunt, direct, gruff figure who sometimes used corporal punishment as a way of handling severely disturbed children. But charges like those of Ms. Jatich and others, they say, amount to character assassination of a man no longer alive to defend himself. They maintain that Bettelheim was a brilliant therapist and teacher who not only saved many children considered untreatable by other experts but trained and inspired whole generations of therapists.

"I never saw any of the kind of behavior that some of these former students are reporting," said Karen Zelan, a psychotherapist in Berkeley, Calif., who was a counselor at the school from 1956 to 1964. "I don't want to say that they are making it up. I think they're saying that they were afraid of the man, that they were afraid of his occasional unpredictable behavior."

Elio Frattaroli, a Philadelphia psychotherapist trained by Bettelheim, said: "I can tell you that the Orthogenic School was a very loving place. It felt loving. And, yes, I saw Bettelheim hit kids. But I do not think it was inconsistent with the spirit of loving and concern for the best interests of the child that comes across in his works."

What is at stake in all of this conflicting testimony is the standing and credibility of one of the century's most important scholarly and therapeutic legacies. A Vienna-born survivor of German concentration camps who came to the United States in 1939, Bettelheim exercised tremendous influence both through his methods and through such books as "Love is Not Enough," "The Empty Fortress" and "The Uses of Enchantment." The claims that he could be erratic, violent, out of control and abusive threaten to give him the image not only of a tyrant but of a hypocrite as well.

Bettelheim himself said that he was influenced by the model of the concentration camps, believing that the milieu of total control used by the Nazis to destroy people could be turned to good purposes. The attacks on him by products of that total milieu are sure to raise doubts about the validity of his method. In the October issue of Commentary, Ronald Angres, a former patient who is now a graduate student in international relations at George Washington University, says that Bettelheim engaged in "insulting and intimidating theatrics."

"He insulted people just in order to break any self-confidence they might have," Mr. Angres wrote. "I lived in terror of his beatings, in terror of his footsteps in the dorm."

Defying Orders

Ms. Jatich, making what may be the single most shocking charge, says that at the age of 15, she was once dragged naked and dripping wet from the shower by Bettelheim and slapped in front of her dorm mates. Another former patient, Richard Younker, a Chicago photojournalist, said in an interview that he was slapped some 20 times in eight years at the school. "He hit me until he got tired, and then he would tell me that I was a hood and a thug and was going to end up as a murderer, and then he slapped and punched me some more," he said, adding that his offense was defying his counselor's orders that he stop hiding under his bed.

Some former counselors, like Dr. Zelan and Freda Rebelsky, a psychologist at Boston University, said they never saw Bettelheim use corporal punishment. Others argued that he did but never in the uncontrolled way described by some of his former patients. Jacqueline Sanders, a former student of Bettelheim's who has been the director of the Orthogenic School since 1973, said she herself once believed that "a good smack was a better way of controlling destructive behavior than isolation rooms, medication or physical restraints." She said, "I do not believe that he administered corporal punishment in an arbitrary rage."

Some therapists suggest that the former students are working out the normal, even healthy anger they might feel toward Bettelheim, who intentionally served as a kind of surrogate father -- often stern, certainly feared, but at the same time loving and devoted. For former patients to say that they were never so sick, that it was just the hated Bettelheim who was at fault would, some analysts say, be the kind of psychological adaptation that Bettelheim himself would have hoped for. Incidents that happened 20, 30 or more years ago may have been distorted in the minds of some students, these therapists say, a suggestion that is rejected by the students themselves.

I think these things happened to me the way I describe them," Mr. Younker said. "If you made the most innocent joke to the man, he exploded. He was out of control."

But Dr. Frattaroli said that when Bettelheim slapped children at the school, he was always acutely aware of the purpose he had in mind. Among youngsters who are deeply fearful and often riddled with guilt, Dr. Frattaroli said, a slap can actually impart a kind of reassurance, a sense of control.

"The problem with the way Bettelheim is being portrayed," Dr. Frattaroli said, "is that he did things in a very thoughtful way, including insulting people. He did not do it in a hostile, abusive fit. He did it to make a point that he thought would not be heard if he made it in a different way."

Maybe the most troubling aspect of the issue is the impossibility of reconciling it once and for all. Bettelheim, after all, can no longer speak for himself, so there is no way to resolve the conflicting stories of a man everyone sees as not only powerful and complex, but mysterious as well.

[Laura_Bean]

Bruno looks a lot like the photo of the man seen that may have been the boy's father or the person who dumped the body at least. The only difference is in the nose, and that could be because the person who saw him didn't see him clearly enough to get the nose right. If you killed either your own child or a child in your care at a world renowned school, would you want the body to show up anywhere near your school? I mean, his school had a reputation to uphold. It would have taken him about 14 hours via the train to get to Philadelphia. It would have taken him another 14 hours to get back. Or he could have driven... Driving would actually only take about 12 hours if traffic wasn't terrible.... Just a thought.

[WholeLottaRosie]

Wow and Bruno had a tie to the area via a student. Didn't say when the guy was a student. Very interesting.

[MadeaBecBec]

Bruno looks a lot like the photo of the man seen that may have been the boy's father or the person who dumped the body at least. The only difference is in the nose, and that could be because the person who saw him didn't see him clearly enough to get the nose right. If you killed either your own child or a child in your care at a world renowned school, would you want the body to show up anywhere near your school? I mean, his school had a reputation to uphold. It would have taken him about 14 hours via the train to get to Philadelphia. It would have taken him another 14 hours to get back. Or he could have driven... Driving would actually only take about 12 hours if traffic wasn't terrible.... Just a thought.

But, wouldn't the parents be questioning where their child was, why he was no longer there? Surely, they would've reported him missing! Unless, the child's parents no longer cared or were not in the picture anymore.
It also seems to me that everyone who received "abuse" is still alive.....
Sounds like an evil person, nonetheless...

[Laura_Bean]

I read that Bruno abused and frightened both staff AND parents of the children staying there. Could they have been too afraid to question him or to call the authorities? Also, at the time he was one of the most elite authorities on children with autism. No one questioned him or his methods, and everyone at the time respected him. If we are dealing with uneducated or foreign to our country parents, they may have just let it go.

[Laura_Bean]

Also, all of the abused children are alive as far as we know. But how many others may have been abused and not survived the torture? And than there would be no one around to tell us what happened? Can we perhaps get in touch with one of these children who were abused and find out if sometimes children disappeared or "went home" in the middle of the night never to be seen again? If parents were too afraid or were told your child ran away, or something of that nature?

[MadeaBecBec]

Also, all of the abused children are alive as far as we know. But how many others may have been abused and not survived the torture? And than there would be no one around to tell us what happened? Can we perhaps get in touch with one of these children who were abused and find out if sometimes children disappeared or "went home" in the middle of the night never to be seen again? If parents were too afraid or were told your child ran away, or something of that nature?

Who was the author of that article? They or their publisher might investigate that angle.... Do you have a link for the story? If, so, I would be willing to e-mail or write them and ask them to do that, ask questions or interview the survivors, again.....

[Shecky]

Going back through this thread I noticed several posts regarding "M" and whether or not her story was believable in the eyes of LE. I just finished "The Boy In The Box" by David Stout, and what I got from his account of "M" and the investigation that followed her story, was that there was simply nothing to corroborate what she said. Yes, "M" mentioned that a passer-by had stopped to offer help when she and her mother were preparing to dump the body, but that was a detail of the case that came to light way back in 1957. She did not offer any information that only the killer (or witness to the murder and disposal) would have known.

People that knew her family and past neighbors never once saw a little boy at that residence. Which might be believable if he were actually kept in the basement for his short life, but then when did he have these numerous medical treatments and where?

The impression that I got from the book was that investigators really did try to pursue her story, but the end result was pretty much that nothing she said could be proved or disproved. I also gathered that they really gave her the benefit of the doubt, because she didn't fit the profile of your average "crazy" person. She is quite intelligent, holds various degrees in science and has a very good job. So I don't think she was written off due to presumed mental illness right off the bat.

Of course, I wasn't there to witness all of this, but I think the book did a pretty good job of explaining things. It cleared up a lot of questions I had about her and her account of what happened to the boy.

[Julespa]

I wonder if Frederick was looked at as a possible match?
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4109dmny.html

[Julespa]

I just googled Frederick and I see that the family has contacted NY officials and they are in contact with PA officials on whether Frederick is possibly the boy in the box. Maybe just maybe it is him? The details seem to match up pretty good.

[vadersbabe]

I am floored by this information. Hopeful too. Have the parents disclosed whether or not Freddie ever had surgery, which would account for AUC's surgical scars....

[MAWGYVER]

I wonder if Frederick was looked at as a possible match?
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/4109dmny.html
"I just googled Frederick and I see that the family has contacted NY officials and they are in contact with PA officials on whether Frederick is possibly the boy in the box. Maybe just maybe it is him? The details seem to match up pretty good."

Do you have a link with the above information on Frederick? I would be interested in reading it, but have come up with nothing! Thanks.

I have also been consumed by this case and review it often to see if any new tips or information has been found.

[amber1]

This little guy needs a name. I hope he gets that soon.

[not_my_kids]

I emailed some questions about isotope analysis to a medical examiner that usually has time for my questions. I don't think there is enough to do that type of analysis considering the difficulty they had getting DNA, but he'll let me know what would be needed.

I believe the wrinkling was from him sitting in a tub with one arm hanging out, or it could have been a form of harsh discipline used by his caretakers. I can think of few things less pleasant than sitting with my feet and arm in water in February. Especially if it were outside. I doubt that he died of exposure, as I'm sure that would have been noted, instead of head trauma, but if it was a form of discipline, it wouldn't surprise me for someone capable of that to be capable of murder, as well.

I don't believe it was a kidnapper that took the boy from somewhere to kill him later. The washing, drying, trimming nails, putting him inside a box, covering him, all are signs of a maternal connection.

Regardless of what the coroner reports say, I think this boy was abused in a long term sense. Not all abuse leaves physical marks, and he was malnourished.

Just observations. I doubt there is a missing report and out of all the reports, I would consider the woman that contacted the police through her psychiatrist to be the most reliable, I feel there would have been more marks and permanently visible injuries on his body if her story were true. I think she might have somehow heard the other man's story, either through the grapevine or intentionally sought him out. And I still consider her the most reliable.
Personal opinion, the number of people that knew this boy during his life was very limited. Midwife that delivered him, his mother, maybe father, maybe grandparents, maybe a sibling or two. Other than that, I just feel he was someones secret.

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
I feel they may find thier answers with the Horsham suspects.

http://www.americasunknownchild.net/Archives5Text.html#fourq

http://www.americasunknownchild.net/Archives7Text.html#momq


http://americasunknownchild.net/Archives1Text.html#CSIBM

In the article mother of 9 quizzed,she was questioned bacause she looked like the lady near the car that was seen near the area of where the boy in the box was found.If you look closely she resembles the Horsham suspect lady.There is a boy in the Horsham suspect picture the may resemble the couple found near (lady and boy)the car near the area where the boy in the box was found.

I feel the little boy died getting his hair cut in the bath.He was fighting because he did not want his hair cut.I believe the autopsy said no old bruises?Did he change care takers or was he visiting someone.

[Ms Suzanne]

I've been thinking about this little boy alot.Has there been any updates or any new leads on him.It's sad.I know we can find out who this little boy is and what happened to him.Has any one recently talked to LE about him and what's going on with his case.

[Nancyb1962]

Good points IMO, I posted this with hopes someone would know something. It's amazing the people that read these, you just never know. This case has haunted me for sometime. I think someone out there has info. I just pray they happen to come across this site or the actual site of The Boy in the Box.

I think one of the biggest clues is the box he was found in, if I remember correctly it was a bassett.

Has anyone ever checked to see if there are possibly any old records of furniture orders for that foster home? Or what about Bassett? Are they still in business today? Or, if not, would there be any records as far as the box goes, or the item that was in it? And someway to find old records for this company?
I agree on the time frame and the possible link to Frederick Andrew Holmes. No one who would have kidnapped a child and sold that child would have continued calling him by his birth given name. It's always possible that the kidnapper did change his name to Jonathon.
And another thought that stuck with me, isn't it rather odd also, that both Steven Craig Damman, and Frederick Andrew Holmes were kidnapped both from New York, same general age?

Update to original post:
Whoops, I found this:
http://www.americasunknownchild.net/Archives1Text.html#bbcim

Bassinet Box Clue in Murder Of Mystery Boy
Police Try to Trace 69th St. Buyer of Carton That Hid Body

Apparently, the police did try to track that pretty close to the time of finding the boy.

[rpipergirl]

Going back through this thread I noticed several posts regarding "M" and whether or not her story was believable in the eyes of LE. I just finished "The Boy In The Box" by David Stout, and what I got from his account of "M" and the investigation that followed her story, was that there was simply nothing to corroborate what she said. Yes, "M" mentioned that a passer-by had stopped to offer help when she and her mother were preparing to dump the body, but that was a detail of the case that came to light way back in 1957. She did not offer any information that only the killer (or witness to the murder and disposal) would have known.

People that knew her family and past neighbors never once saw a little boy at that residence. Which might be believable if he were actually kept in the basement for his short life, but then when did he have these numerous medical treatments and where?

The impression that I got from the book was that investigators really did try to pursue her story, but the end result was pretty much that nothing she said could be proved or disproved. I also gathered that they really gave her the benefit of the doubt, because she didn't fit the profile of your average "crazy" person. She is quite intelligent, holds various degrees in science and has a very good job. So I don't think she was written off due to presumed mental illness right off the bat.

Of course, I wasn't there to witness all of this, but I think the book did a pretty good job of explaining things. It cleared up a lot of questions I had about her and her account of what happened to the boy.
I'd love to get my hands on that book. I did not know about it. TY for speaking about it here.