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kpass
12-20-2007, 01:59 PM
The Peterson story: Sneed hears rumbles investigators probing the disappearance of Stacy Peterson and the mysterious death of her husband's third wife, Kathleen Savio, are looking into the water usage at the Peterson home during the time sequence surrounding the death and discovery of Savio's body.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/sneed/705801,CST-NWS-SNEED20.article

mysteriew
12-20-2007, 02:23 PM
The Peterson story: Sneed hears rumbles investigators probing the disappearance of Stacy Peterson and the mysterious death of her husband's third wife, Kathleen Savio, are looking into the water usage at the Peterson home during the time sequence surrounding the death and discovery of Savio's body.

http://www.suntimes.com/news/sneed/705801,CST-NWS-SNEED20.article

Is that even possible?

They read my water meter once a month. And the water usage will vary from month to month, certainly an extra washer load wouldn't make a big difference over a month's time. As to being able to pinpoint what time the water was used, they couldn't do that.

Is the system different in BB?

DeltaDawn
12-20-2007, 02:32 PM
Is that even possible?

They read my water meter once a month. And the water usage will vary from month to month, certainly an extra washer load wouldn't make a big difference over a month's time. As to being able to pinpoint what time the water was used, they couldn't do that.

Is the system different in BB?

I agree that would be a stretch to try to pinpoint date and time of water usage. Over the period of a month a load of extra wash would be hard to trace.

Tom'sGirl
12-20-2007, 02:35 PM
I agree that would be a stretch to try to pinpoint date and time of water usage. Over the period of a month a load of extra wash would be hard to trace.
I have a question, why is this of importance? Are they maybe speculating that the pool may have been drained and refilled during this time period?

panthera
12-20-2007, 02:38 PM
I have a question, why is this of importance? Are they maybe speculating that the pool may have been drained and refilled during this time period?
That's the only thing that would cause a marked difference in water usage, imo, not a few extra loads of laundry.

chicoliving
12-20-2007, 02:38 PM
Down the road in Wilmington, the officials there were able to establish how much water was used during a period of time (3 hours in that instance) so its something that has been done in the area. This was brought up in the Riley Fox case.

I think they would be able to track how much water was used that weekend or during specific times of that weekend. All the info would be in the water treatment system and it would just be a matter of pulling the info for specific times. Sounds good anyway!

mysteriew
12-20-2007, 02:38 PM
I have a question, why is this of importance? Are they maybe speculating that the pool may have been drained and refilled during this time period?

But for what purpose? This is during Kathleen's time. She was found at her home, not DrewP's.

panthera
12-20-2007, 02:40 PM
But for what purpose? This is during Kathleen's time. She was found at her home, not DrewP's.
Oh, sorry, I too misunderstood. I thought it was relating to Stacy's disappearance. :doh:

DeltaDawn
12-20-2007, 02:47 PM
Down the road in Wilmington, the officials there were able to establish how much water was used during a period of time (3 hours in that instance) so its something that has been done in the area. This was brought up in the Riley Fox case.

I think they would be able to track how much water was used that weekend or during specific times of that weekend. All the info would be in the water treatment system and it would just be a matter of pulling the info for specific times. Sounds good anyway!

So if the scene described by the pastor is true ..then they would be able to point possibly the time that a load of wash was being done at 3AM in Drew's home over the weekend of Kathleen's murder. The night Stacy couldn't find him, keeps calling and then she sees him in the dark clothing by the washer with womens clothing in a bag ..getting ready to wash those and his black outfit.

So possibly with that info, the phone records and the ifo given to the pastor...they could est a timeline for Kathleen's murder?

chicoliving
12-20-2007, 02:58 PM
So if the scene described by the pastor is true ..then they would be able to point possibly the time that a load of wash was being done at 3AM in Drew's home over the weekend of Kathleen's murder. The night Stacy couldn't find him, keeps calling and then she sees him in the dark clothing by the washer with womens clothing in a bag ..getting ready to wash those and his black outfit.

So possibly with that info, the phone records and the ifo given to the pastor...they could est a timeline for Kathleen's murder?

I'm not sure I know which home the water records are for....I assumed (without reading fully) it would be to check the water usage at the Savio home to figure out when the water was being used (say for a bath). I think they would be looking for a large amount of water usage at maybe a strange time. But pinpointing the time a large amount of water was used could give them the timeline of when she was in the tub or more accurately when water was being let into the tub.

DeltaDawn
12-20-2007, 03:01 PM
Thanks Chico..I didn't know water records were able to be detailed like that..but with so many things computerized today I suspect they sure could be.

panthera
12-20-2007, 03:03 PM
Thanks Chico..I didn't know water records were able to be detailed like that..but with so many things computerized today I suspect they sure could be.
It's something new to me too, and especially to get the records from over 3 yrs. ago.

mysteriew
12-20-2007, 03:05 PM
I'm not sure I know which home the water records are for....I assumed (without reading fully) it would be to check the water usage at the Savio home to figure out when the water was being used (say for a bath). I think they would be looking for a large amount of water usage at maybe a strange time. But pinpointing the time a large amount of water was used could give them the timeline of when she was in the tub or more accurately when water was being let into the tub.


are looking into the water usage at the Peterson home during the time sequence surrounding the death and discovery of Savio's body.

The way I read it is that they are looking at the water usage at DrewP's home. IOW was the washer run in the middle of the night.

chicoliving
12-20-2007, 03:08 PM
The way I read it is that they are looking at the water usage at DrewP's home.


In that case they must be wanting to try to verify this washing machine episode?? Did Drew P have the pool at that time?

TGIRecovered
12-20-2007, 03:20 PM
But for what purpose? This is during Kathleen's time. She was found at her home, not DrewP's.

If there are hour-by hour details of water usage available, and if it showed usage at Kathy's house say, betweem midnight and 2:30am followed by usage at Drew's home between 3-5am, this would be very significant if compared to usual times of usage in those two homes. I would bet that on any given night of the year, there would be very little or no water usage at all during those hours of the night, unless Drew usually got off work at 3am. Even then, we have records showing that Drew did not work that night and his alibi is that he was at home asleep.

susan

panthera
12-20-2007, 03:25 PM
If there are hour-by hour details of water usage available, and if it showed usage at Kathy's house say, betweem midnight and 2:30am followed by usage at Drew's home between 3-5am, this would be very significant if compared to usual times of usage in those two homes. I would bet that on any given night of the year, there would be very little or no water usage at all during those hours of the night, unless Drew usually got off work at 3am. Even then, we have records showing that Drew did not work that night and his alibi is that he was at home asleep.

susan
This is totally fascinating to me since I had no clue that the water usage was recorded in such specific time periods. I just thought it was accumulative over the billing period.

TGIRecovered
12-20-2007, 03:37 PM
This is totally fascinating to me since I had no clue that the water usage was recorded in such specific time periods. I just thought it was accumulative over the billing period.

I wonder if it makes a difference when the neighborhood was first built. My home was built in the mid-eighties, and I know that a person comes around every month to read the meter. Maybe newer neighborhoods have a more detailed monitoring system.

Susan

i.b.nora
12-20-2007, 03:43 PM
So, theoretically, if water records exist for the time period, and if they can be as detailed as suggested, they could be able to compare the water usage at Kathleen's house vs. the water usage at Drew's house.

Let's say, Kathleen's bathtub was filled with water sometime on that night possibly between say 2:00 am and 4:00am. Maybe some additional water usage to clean up, and then NO water usage after that at all. How would that water usage compare with normal water usage patterns at Kathleen's house?

Meanwhile, at Drew's house there is water usage reflecting at least one load of wash at around 4:00 am. How would that usage compare to normal water usage patterns at Drew's house? How often was a large quantity of water used at 4:00 am?

Hmmm. This is fascinating, if it is possible.

mysteriew
12-20-2007, 03:59 PM
Water usuage tracking is something that probably isn't used often, so DrewP might not have been aware of it, or may have forgotten it.

panthera
12-20-2007, 05:30 PM
I wonder if it makes a difference when the neighborhood was first built. My home was built in the mid-eighties, and I know that a person comes around every month to read the meter. Maybe newer neighborhoods have a more detailed monitoring system.

Susan
Good question. When was DP's house built?

TGIRecovered
12-20-2007, 05:40 PM
How cool would it be if they also check water usage on the night Drew (alledgedly:sick: ) disposed of Stacy's body and found that he was doing a wash or two in the early morning hours?
...and even more cool if the night of Stacy's disappearance and the night of Kathleen's murder were the only two nights with that type of usage as compared to records for the years in between murders?

Unlikely? Yes, I know.

Impossible? I don't think so.

Susan

Taximom
12-20-2007, 05:54 PM
I've been racking my brain trying to figure out that little snippet. Would it prove that more water was used than normal, indicating that water was left on for a long period of time and then shut off prior to KS being found dead?

There would be water damage to the home if water had been left on to simulate a fall and then drowning. The plug was in but allowed a slow leak. Any excess water would have overflowed the tub.

I don't know, can't figure this one out at all.

robthomaseyes
12-20-2007, 06:16 PM
I've been racking my brain trying to figure out that little snippet. Would it prove that more water was used than normal, indicating that water was left on for a long period of time and then shut off prior to KS being found dead?

There would be water damage to the home if water had been left on to simulate a fall and then drowning. The plug was in but allowed a slow leak. Any excess water would have overflowed the tub.

I don't know, can't figure this one out at all.

Unfortunately, though, I doubt that's really proof of anything.

I just can't wait until we have solid proof of anything in either case.

:furious:

Tom'sGirl
12-20-2007, 06:23 PM
[quote]
How cool would it be if they also check water usage on the night Drew (alledgedly:sick: ) disposed of Stacy's body and found that he was doing a wash or two in the early morning hours?
...and even more cool if the night of Stacy's disappearance and the night of Kathleen's murder were the only two nights with that type of usage as compared to records for the years in between murders?

A bit O/T but...........

Just by chance when I got a news update re: Riley Fox, I viewed a video where they mention water usage and between what hours. So I guess it is possible.

In the video it states that between the hours of 11PM-1AM that 18 gals. of water was used.

http://video.nbc5.com/player/?id=116722

SeriouslySearching
12-20-2007, 06:30 PM
Water usuage tracking is something that probably isn't used often, so DrewP might not have been aware of it, or may have forgotten it.I have never heard of such a thing! Here, they only track water usuage during large time frames. If a leak is suspected...they will send a person out to watch the meter with all the water being off in the home because the meter will still run.

However, this may be relatively a new procedure to track people growing pot inside of homes. Excessive use of water (for plants) is a good tool for LE to obtain a warrant, I think.

curiositycat
12-20-2007, 07:03 PM
Wow, what a trip! This sounds so far fetched to me. Even if they have the technology, how could they prove anything?
God forbid a person has the stomach flu, LOL! All that toliet flushing?

Does anyone have a really good source on this? It just sounds kind-of silly.
:D

SeriouslySearching
12-20-2007, 07:16 PM
If it is true, I would love to know! Years ago, while I was out of town for a week...my crazy landlord lady turned the hose on full blast and left it for the entire week I was gone!! My entire yard plus the neighbors' were flooded and I had to trudge through knee high mud to turn it off. The City Water Dept. made me pay over $800.00 or they were going to turn my water off!! They said I would have to provide a witness to see her actually turn it on and leave it on. I made the comment to them...."So if I wanted to get back at an ex or something...I could just turn their faucet on outside while they were on vacation and they would have to pay this enourmous bill no matter what, Right?" They agreed it could happen that way if no one saw me do it! What a crock!! (Not that I would EVER do something like that tho...I am not vindictive.)

curiositycat
12-20-2007, 07:48 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: ROFL!




If it is true, I would love to know! Years ago, while I was out of town for a week...my crazy landlord lady turned the hose on full blast and left it for the entire week I was gone!! My entire yard plus the neighbors' were flooded and I had to trudge through knee high mud to turn it off. The City Water Dept. made me pay over $800.00 or they were going to turn my water off!! They said I would have to provide a witness to see her actually turn it on and leave it on. I made the comment to them...."So if I wanted to get back at an ex or something...I could just turn their faucet on outside while they were on vacation and they would have to pay this enourmous bill no matter what, Right?" They agreed it could happen that way if no one saw me do it! What a crock!! (Not that I would EVER do something like that tho...I am not vindictive.)

robthomaseyes
12-20-2007, 07:52 PM
That's awful, searching!!! It would be nice if they had a system that alerted them if water was running nonstop for more than a couple of hours; certainly for more than a day!!! My god, that had to be awful!!!

Leila
12-20-2007, 08:13 PM
So if the scene described by the pastor is true ..then they would be able to point possibly the time that a load of wash was being done at 3AM in Drew's home over the weekend of Kathleen's murder. The night Stacy couldn't find him, keeps calling and then she sees him in the dark clothing by the washer with womens clothing in a bag ..getting ready to wash those and his black outfit.

So possibly with that info, the phone records and the ifo given to the pastor...they could est a timeline for Kathleen's murder?


The information on the water usage, added to the phone records might make a difference, and they'd be able to more clearly pinpoint a time.

The medical examiner hasn't released the results of the second autopsy, and from what I heard earlier, the results won't be released to the public, only to the grand jury. The autopsy might only be able to say that Kathleen was murdered between 30 - 40 hours before she was found. So that might be a factor too - autopsy, water usage, and phone records. And then, there's DP's work schedule to add to everything else.

SeriouslySearching
12-20-2007, 08:15 PM
Yes, it truly was awful. Back in those days, I was living paycheck to paycheck. It took me months to pay it off as I had to borrow the money.

My crazy landlord lady denied it, of course, but she was a freak about "watering the foundation" during the summer months. (The house was an old wood frame POS, too!) She was a stark raving loon and to this day I get nauseous thinking about all the things she did to us before our lease ran out and we could leave.

If this option had been available, I could have at least proven when the water had been turned on and that I was out of town at that time! It would have been very helpful!

I guess the point I am trying to make is that if a city as large as our's doesn't have that capability (to pinpoint times of usage specifically), I don't think Bolingbrook, IL would either unless it is relatively a new procedure put into place.

Angelray
12-20-2007, 08:33 PM
If it is true, I would love to know! Years ago, while I was out of town for a week...my crazy landlord lady turned the hose on full blast and left it for the entire week I was gone!! My entire yard plus the neighbors' were flooded and I had to trudge through knee high mud to turn it off. The City Water Dept. made me pay over $800.00 or they were going to turn my water off!! They said I would have to provide a witness to see her actually turn it on and leave it on. I made the comment to them...."So if I wanted to get back at an ex or something...I could just turn their faucet on outside while they were on vacation and they would have to pay this enourmous bill no matter what, Right?" They agreed it could happen that way if no one saw me do it! What a crock!! (Not that I would EVER do something like that tho...I am not vindictive.)

OMG now that is too funny.. hmmmm wonder where my ex lives and when he is going on vacation... ok I am kidding..seriously I have never heard of anything like that, would be great if that is so.. I know my water bill is one price and they read a meter but my sewage is based on how much water I use.. and is usually more than my water. So dont matter if I flush or water flowers.

Littledeer
12-20-2007, 08:41 PM
Definately interesting here! My water usage has peaked some times, but I have never received any kind of notice from the Utility Billing Department that possibly I might have a "leak" somewhere or questioning why the "spike".

One year, my hubby forgot to notify them that we were draining our pond and refilling it. Which definately caused the water usage to GO UP!! Again, no inquiry, just a bill based on the usage.

Now they can tell the "exact time" that any usage is used????? And yet, no inquiry on any "spikes" in usage?? If DP had drained the pool, and then refilled it, I doubt that any water/sewer utility billing person could care less. Most utility billings are computerized by preprogrammed software these days. Also, meters have been updated, where you can read from a "city vehicle" on the road without having someone actually go to the meter to read.

The "TIME" that one is actually using water??? hmmmmmmmmmmm... I am definately going to be checking that one out tomorrow!!!!

mysteriew
12-20-2007, 08:46 PM
Wow, what a trip! This sounds so far fetched to me. Even if they have the technology, how could they prove anything?
God forbid a person has the stomach flu, LOL! All that toliet flushing?

Does anyone have a really good source on this? It just sounds kind-of silly.
:D

It makes sense though. With this type of system they wouldn't have to hire meter readers, because they would already have the records. And with newer systems being computerized I believe it could be possible.

I may be wrong, but at this point it looks like both the Kathleen Savio case and the Stacy Peterson case will be circumstancial. Meaning they cannot put DrewP with his hands on either woman but if they can come up with an overwhelming amount of circumstantial evidence, they may have a chance of prosecution. Thus the water usage would be one more piece of evidence. And remember DrewP and Stacy didn't tell LE that they were up all night with the stomach flu, they told police they were in bed asleep. Still I don't know how they will get the evidence before a jury because of the pastor's statement being hearsay.

Littledeer
12-20-2007, 09:06 PM
myster:

You are correct that meter readers are not needed with the (darn, can not think of the name of those meters, but I will find out tomorrow), anyways, it is done all by computerization. Not sure if the "TIME' of water usage is being shown, again, will find out tomorrow.

As you said, it still would be all cirumstantial evidence. I have two kids away in college, what if both of them came home and decided to take baths and wash their clothes??

Guess what? My water usage has just gone up!! Does that make me guilty of something??

thesleuther
12-20-2007, 10:27 PM
This is very interesting. My meter isn't read inside, the guy gets a signal from a hand-held small computer. Now, if they could see a lot of usage at Kathleen's at around 2 A.M. (more than a bath, but what would be consistent with a lot of usage for say, washing away evidence), and then an hour or so later at around 4 A.M. at Drew's home, usage consistent with washing a load of clothes, coupled with phone calls from Stacy's phone to Drew's phone that went unanswered during that same time frame, then we may have something.

Those kinds of things along with the 18 calls for domestic violence and the financial windfall Drew received from Kathleen's death could be excellent circumstantial evidence. A nice cherry on top of the cake would be if that hand-written will, in all caps, that appeared a year after her death, could be shown to have a forged signature......ah, now we have something. A delicious thought.

mysteriew
12-21-2007, 12:38 AM
myster:

You are correct that meter readers are not needed with the (darn, can not think of the name of those meters, but I will find out tomorrow), anyways, it is done all by computerization. Not sure if the "TIME' of water usage is being shown, again, will find out tomorrow.

As you said, it still would be all cirumstantial evidence. I have two kids away in college, what if both of them came home and decided to take baths and wash their clothes??

Guess what? My water usage has just gone up!! Does that make me guilty of something??

Thanking you in advance for the questions you are going to ask.

Does it make you guilty??? Maybe not. But if you add in a dead woman, a statement to police that all adults were asleep at that time, and phone calls from your spouse looking for you.... well you better get an attorney!

philamena
12-21-2007, 12:43 AM
Down the road in Wilmington, the officials there were able to establish how much water was used during a period of time (3 hours in that instance) so its something that has been done in the area. This was brought up in the Riley Fox case.

I think they would be able to track how much water was used that weekend or during specific times of that weekend. All the info would be in the water treatment system and it would just be a matter of pulling the info for specific times. Sounds good anyway!

Wow, I didn't know that about the Riley Fox case, chicoliving. Thanks for the explanation. BTY-it sounds good to me too.

Tom'sGirl
12-21-2007, 12:46 AM
Wow, I didn't know that about the Riley Fox case, chicoliving. Thanks for the explanation. BTY-it sounds good to me too.
Here's the link in my post to the video philamena
http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1863077&postcount=24

philamena
12-21-2007, 12:50 AM
Tom'sGirl,
As always a heart felt thanks to you.

SeriouslySearching
12-21-2007, 02:06 AM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Thanking you in advance for the questions you are going to ask.

Does it make you guilty??? Maybe not. But if you add in a dead woman, a statement to police that all adults were asleep at that time, and phone calls from your spouse looking for you.... well you better get an attorney!Great point!!

Littledeer
12-22-2007, 12:08 PM
myster:


Thanking you in advance for the questions you are going to ask.


What questions??

Your reply was a good one. It would bolster all other circumstantial evidence that has been collected to the case against DP. Just how MUCH circumstantial evidence is considered enough to indict someone?

Does anyone know?

SeriouslySearching
12-22-2007, 06:22 PM
myster:



What questions??

Your reply was a good one. It would bolster all other circumstantial evidence that has been collected to the case against DP. Just how MUCH circumstantial evidence is considered enough to indict someone?

Does anyone know?I think she meant putting it all together...it does sound very incriminating and does raise a lot of questions.

How much circumstantial evidence is enough? It is a relative question and cannot be answered. Each case is different. It depends on the kind of evidence and how they can tie it back to the suspect.