Read this - Post from another hiker- details about GMH a bit..

[JinxieJada]

This is a trailhikers blog from 2005. There is no mention of what the guy called the dog..But can we gather anything from this? Any new details? Before he was "really noticed"?

I'm going to copy and paste here in its entirety the paragraphs containing to what sounds like hilton- if that's not ok, mods, please edit, or pm me and instruct me how to correct it!


Taken from -

http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=214242

It rained and rained until all it would do was rain, so we had started out early that morning.
Once we got into Cooper Gap, on the right hand side as you descend, a white van (possibly a VW) was parked and camped with a wet dog tied up outside. The dog was medium-sized and reddish brown. It barked at us as we passed, but no one seemed to be home.







We stumbled into the shelter, drenched from an 8-mile hike through 5 hours of constant downpours. I remember I had just laid out everything to dry and was laughing at the idea we would have another shelter to ourselves.
That is when this older gentlemen who I would have guessed in his 60's came into the shelter. He wore a day pack and on a leash was the very same dog who had barked at us back at the Gap.
He wore running shoes and a black knit hat covered his thin white hair. A white neatly-trimmed beard covered his oval face.


The first thing he said to us was that a group of about 6 hikers were behind us and asked us about our itinerary. We told him our story as we unpacked our stove.



He told us he couldn't do anything but day-hike these days because of the pain in his knees. Said he camped in that white van down in the Gap and wondered all over the place camping for free in this area while mixing in dayhikes with his dog.
We asked about the dog.....how old it was....did he ever put a pack on it? Those kind of things.


He explained how he disliked people who take their dogs on thru-hikes because it was so mean to the dog. No one knew how painful it can be on a dog's paws. He pulled out a pair of tweezers and held them up.
"I always carry these and stop and check on her every mile or so....it's good to always check for stickers and rocks on their paws," He said.




This guy also volunteered to us how he made his living. He said he would take work on homes. Contract work, roofs or siding.....one or two a year in Florida and around the area and that would allow him to live in the woods. Told us it was the way to go.


All in all, I would say ten minutes went by and then he wished us well and turned to leave. He and his dogged disappeared into the woods and I assume headed back to the Gap.
I immediately turned to my cousin and said, "That guy was weird. He made no eye contact with either one of us, talked our head off and cared not one bit about our answers we gave him."

[Spazkat9696]

Creepy epically when he showed his cousin the picture. I'm sure this guy is responsible for a lot more crimes than we are aware of.

[Reannan]

JinxieJada, I think maybe you should pass that information along to the GBI. This guy is going to be difficult for LE to track by traditional methods. He doesn't pay electric bills; probably not any taxes, has had addresses that were essentially businesses, and has lived in the woods. I bet he doesn't have a bank account of his own. He has no internet presence. He has essentially lived off of the grid. It will be helpful to LE to see information like what you just posted because they can then begin to create a timeline of where he has been and when he was in various areas. This case may be an example of one where the information that people like us find, will be very beneficial to LE. I am going to try and start working on a timeline of what we know about him, and overlay that with the list of possible other murders. Can't work on it today, however - at the job again. :cool:

[JinxieJada]

JinxieJada, I think maybe you should pass that information along to the GBI. This guy is going to be difficult for LE to track by traditional methods. He doesn't pay electric bills; probably not any taxes, has had addresses that were essentially businesses, and has lived in the woods. I bet he doesn't have a bank account of his own. He has no internet presence. He has essentially lived off of the grid. It will be helpful to LE to see information like what you just posted because they can then begin to create a timeline of where he has been and when he was in various areas. This case may be an example of one where the information that people like us find, will be very beneficial to LE. I am going to try and start working on a timeline of what we know about him, and overlay that with the list of possible other murders. Can't work on it today, however - at the job again. :cool:


Ok, how would I do that? I haven't seen an email posted for contact info...or just go to their website and pick one out? (an email addy)

[concernedperson]

Ok, how would I do that? I haven't seen an email posted for contact info...or just go to their website and pick one out? (an email addy)
To make sure it gets to the right agents investigating I would call first as each agent has there own email address. 404 244 2600 is the 24 hour line. The operator could direct you to the proper person or give you the correct email address.

[JinxieJada]

To make sure it gets to the right agents investigating I would call first as each agent has there own email address. 404 244 2600 is the 24 hour line. The operator could direct you to the proper person or give you the correct email address.


Thanks CP!

[SeriouslySearching]

Where is Cooper Gap?

That is a good lead for the FBI providing they can find a way to track the people down, but it is possible there isn't unless you have to register for that site.

Great find, Jinxie!!!!

[MeoW333]

Wow, Jinxie!! That sounds like him all right! It is true what he said about taking dogs on through hikes as it's bad on the paws. When i went hiking and brought my dog (we couldn't go that much); rocky terrain would wear down her nails a lot quicker and the pads so i had to watch. He sounds like a conscientious dog owner, if anything he probably has taken Dandy to the vet for some reason or another, i think if anything is on the grid, it would be vet visits..

[SuziQ]

Great find Jinxie! I agree with Reannan, my sleuthing twin, that this is the only way for the authorites to track Hilton's whereabouts. Good job!

[JinxieJada]

I called the number, but seemed to be on hold forever I got tranferred a couple times, and then had to stop holding to get kiddo from school. Should I try again tonight? (it was around noonish, so I'm guessing lunches/shift changes etc)


Thanks
L

[JinxieJada]

* A thought* I believe it's been discussed before, But - Since this guy seems to be well known/remembered on the trails...Should we start looking at more hiker's blogs and their pics to see if he's in anyone's photos? If he was this chatty, it wouldn't suprise me to to find he or dandy/both would be in someone's pictures from their excursions...


Anyone else?

[cwiz24]

* A thought* I believe it's been discussed before, But - Since this guy seems to be well known/remembered on the trails...Should we start looking at more hiker's blogs and their pics to see if he's in anyone's photos? If he was this chatty, it wouldn't suprise me to to find he or dandy/both would be in someone's pictures from their excursions...


Anyone else?

Jinx--I suggested this back on the Meredith Emerson #1 thread and I attempted to go through the trailjournals website, but it's not organized terribly well and it became overwhelming. Plus, that was before we had a suspect and we just had a general description of a guy in a yellow jacket with a red dog.

But the more people who attack it, the easier it will be. The journals are organized by year and by trail. Anyone have any ideas how we can split it up?

http://www.trailjournals.com/journals.cfm

[cwiz24]

Might Hilton have had a nickname? Most AT hikers hike under a nickname they give themselves and refer to each other by these names. You'll notice this as you go through the trailjournals site.

[cwiz24]

From: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=37163

"Today started like any other day. Wake up, pack up and leave camp by 7:30. It definantly didn't end in a typical way though.
I knew we would be crossing the Blue Ridge Parkway several times today before reaching our stopping point. I was feeling nervous about the crossings today for some reason, so I didn't hike too far ahead of Shepshank.

I got to the Taylor's Mountian Overlook on the BRP and decided to wait for her. Several cars would stop, look at the view, and take off again. Then a woman pulled up, got out of her car, and asked me if I was hiking alone.

That's a little weird, I thought, until she told me why she asked. She had been getting to study at a different overlook and a guy in a white van pulled up and sat there watching her. She felt uncomfortable, so decided to go to another overlook. He drove by the second one several times. So she decided to leave.

She saw me at the next overlook, the first trail crossing. She wanted to warn me about this guy. As she was telling me this story, he drove by two times. Sheepshank arrived soon after. We stood at the overlook for a half an hour and this guy drove by at least ten times, sometimes squealing his tires near by, so he could turn around again.

We all decided that the rangers needed to be informed of this bizzare behavior, so we got into her car to go look for one.

At one point, the guy in the white van pased us going the oppisite way. He saw us, swerved in our lane after he passed, went into the ditch and pulled back up on the road and back into his lane. Now the woman was getting very scared.

The guy must have turned around again, because he was soon three cars back, intent on getting people to pull off to a overlook to get right behind us. This guy tailgated everyone until they moved. There was a red truck behind us that realized that some thing was going on, and wouldn't let the van scare him off.

The van tried to get around him, but couldn't do so because of the amount of traffic. We could tell this guy was very aggitated because he coulnKt get behind us. I think the guy who was harrassing us soon realized how close we were to a vistor center and he turned off on the road going to Buchanan, Va.

We reported the incident to the Blue Ridge Parkway Rangers. After an hour and half of talking to them, we decided that any of the shelters that we could go to were too close to the Parkway for our comfort and we didn't know if there were any other hiker behind us that would make it to the shelter tonight. We decided to camp at the Peaks of Otter Campground so we would be around people.

The woman took us to the resturant at the Peaks of Otter Lodge, where she was going to wait for a friend who was going to follow her home so that she felt safe. She said that when we were finished eating she would drive us back to the campground.

Sheepshank decided that she wanted to stay at the hotel, so after a bit of discussion, we decided to do so.

I must admit that I am a little afraid of going back to the trail, knowing that we have to cross the Blue Ridge Parkway several times in the next few days. We are trying to decide if we are going to get back on at the same place or skip ahead a little bit, so that we have less of a chance of running into him again. We also have to figure out how to get the word out about this as quickly as possible so other hikers know about it.

Today's events really tired me out, and I'm feeling very stressed. I'm going to sleep now."

[JinxieJada]

Jinx--I suggested this back on the Meredith Emerson #1 thread and I attempted to go through the trailjournals website, but it's not organized terribly well and it became overwhelming. Plus, that was before we had a suspect and we just had a general description of a guy in a yellow jacket with a red dog.

But the more people who attack it, the easier it will be. The journals are organized by year and by trail. Anyone have

any ideas how we can split it up?

http://www.trailjournals.com/journals.cfm

Cwiz - Thanks! I remembered it was talked about - but couldn't remember where or by who lol. are All of these locations so far part of the Appy Trail? If so, maybe we could start there? I've found ALOT of info on the different trailjournals, not so much pertaining to him, but the area, the people etc.

I really think if we dig deep enough of these, we're going to find a whole lot more people that know of him.

[MeoW333]

skate's 2002
Appalachian Trail Journal

First (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=11434) Previous (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=11722) Next (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=12123) Last (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=46998) Sunday, March 17, 2002
Destination: Hiawassee, GA
Starting Location: Cheese Factory Site
Today's Miles: 12.70
Trip Miles: 66.80 Wow! Actually slept last night. Had to turn my sleeping bag 180 degrees so my head was at the foot of the tent to avoid the incline. I don’t quite have the knack down for selecting the perfect tent spot yet. Rained all night, but broke long enough at 6:30 AM for us to pack up our gear. Today was a body climate control challenge – wind, rain, countered by body heat and sweat had me switching fleece hat to bandana and back, rain jacket on/off, fleece jacket on/off. Finally I gave up and settled for T-shirt drenched in sweat and damp from rain. One of the great features of a thru-hike is the “Great Unknown.” Every day is truly a new day and it is fun to see what unfolds as the day progresses. Hawkeye and I stopped briefly at Tray Mountain Shelter to enjoy the luxury of a latrine and discovered a bag of fresh oranges hanging at the shelter - Trail Magic. Also met M – a Vietnam Vet, and his black Lab, Tucker. He is quite the conversationalist. In the course of 15 minutes, he covered the crusades, life on the line at General Motors, the Vietnam War and the 101st Airborne Division, Hanoi Jane, and the Palestinians and Israel! Pickle joined us and we took off for Deep Gap. Walking, walking, walking the AT, walking the AT north, walking the AT north from Georgia to Maine… With that cadence in mind, I climbed the never, never, never ending climb up Kelly Knob. The descent led to the Blue Blaze Trail to Deep Gap Shelter. I reached the shelter first and it was already crowded – Turkey Bacon, Yankee Joe, Eric (Ohio), Tinman and Godiva, and Greg. With more hikers pouring in, it would be a sardine can tonight. I walked back to the water source and met Hawkeye and Pickle. A quick pow-wow and we decided to move on. Boy, did we move! It was 4 PM and we knew if we covered 3.5 miles we could catch a ride to Hiawassee. Hot bath, hotel – enough said. We booked up, over and down those mountains and hit Dick’s Creek Gap in 1.2 hours. I swear we were practically running those ridges. Several cars and trucks passed us at Dick’s Creek before a retired couple pulled over and took us into town (11 miles). The best Trail Angels we’ve met thus far. Hot bath, a real bed, food, glorious food…. Life is good. We’ll take a day tomorrow to do laundry, stock up on food supplies, and plan our next week on the Trail. -skate

[Masterj]

From: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=37163

"Today started like any other day. Wake up, pack up and leave camp by 7:30. It definantly didn't end in a typical way though.
I knew we would be crossing the Blue Ridge Parkway several times today before reaching our stopping point. I was feeling nervous about the crossings today for some reason, so I didn't hike too far ahead of Shepshank.

I got to the Taylor's Mountian Overlook on the BRP and decided to wait for her. Several cars would stop, look at the view, and take off again. Then a woman pulled up, got out of her car, and asked me if I was hiking alone.

That's a little weird, I thought, until she told me why she asked. She had been getting to study at a different overlook and a guy in a white van pulled up and sat there watching her. She felt uncomfortable, so decided to go to another overlook. He drove by the second one several times. So she decided to leave.

She saw me at the next overlook, the first trail crossing. She wanted to warn me about this guy. As she was telling me this story, he drove by two times. Sheepshank arrived soon after. We stood at the overlook for a half an hour and this guy drove by at least ten times, sometimes squealing his tires near by, so he could turn around again.

We all decided that the rangers needed to be informed of this bizzare behavior, so we got into her car to go look for one.

At one point, the guy in the white van pased us going the oppisite way. He saw us, swerved in our lane after he passed, went into the ditch and pulled back up on the road and back into his lane. Now the woman was getting very scared.

The guy must have turned around again, because he was soon three cars back, intent on getting people to pull off to a overlook to get right behind us. This guy tailgated everyone until they moved. There was a red truck behind us that realized that some thing was going on, and wouldn't let the van scare him off.

The van tried to get around him, but couldn't do so because of the amount of traffic. We could tell this guy was very aggitated because he coulnKt get behind us. I think the guy who was harrassing us soon realized how close we were to a vistor center and he turned off on the road going to Buchanan, Va.

We reported the incident to the Blue Ridge Parkway Rangers. After an hour and half of talking to them, we decided that any of the shelters that we could go to were too close to the Parkway for our comfort and we didn't know if there were any other hiker behind us that would make it to the shelter tonight. We decided to camp at the Peaks of Otter Campground so we would be around people.

The woman took us to the resturant at the Peaks of Otter Lodge, where she was going to wait for a friend who was going to follow her home so that she felt safe. She said that when we were finished eating she would drive us back to the campground.

Sheepshank decided that she wanted to stay at the hotel, so after a bit of discussion, we decided to do so.

I must admit that I am a little afraid of going back to the trail, knowing that we have to cross the Blue Ridge Parkway several times in the next few days. We are trying to decide if we are going to get back on at the same place or skip ahead a little bit, so that we have less of a chance of running into him again. We also have to figure out how to get the word out about this as quickly as possible so other hikers know about it.

Today's events really tired me out, and I'm feeling very stressed. I'm going to sleep now."

That sounds like it could be him. How frightening!

[SeriouslySearching]

MasterJ that does sound like him.

MeoW..not sure about that post. What would be the connection to Hilton? Am I missing something?

[SeriouslySearching]

Might Hilton have had a nickname? Most AT hikers hike under a nickname they give themselves and refer to each other by these names. You'll notice this as you go through the trailjournals site.His nickname is Mac or Mack.

[SeriouslySearching]

SuziQ brought this over from Huff's and posted it:
A commenter at Huff's

http://www.haloscan.com/comments/tru...1278446789725/ (http://www.haloscan.com/comments/truecrimeweblog/8599761278446789725/)

posted a comment from:



on pg 2: "I am sure you have all heard about the hiker who went missing on New Year's Day and the guy who is in custody for kidnapping her. Her body was found today and I am sure they will be charging him with her murder. He is also suspected in several other murders in Florida, North Carolina, and Georgia.
I wanted to tell you all about what happened to me so that you will all be aware of who you talk to and to pay attention to your "something is weird here" radar.
The day before the girl, Meredith Emerson, went missing, I was hiking on the same trail on Blood Mountain. I saw the man who is suspected of killing her and I talked to him for about 10 minutes. He asked me if I was alone and if I had a cell phone. It wasn't particularly odd that he asked me those questions, because he worked them into the conversation. My radar did go off because he is very strange. I didn't feel like I was in danger because I was with a group that I was hiking ahead of when I encountered him on the trail. I'd like to think I wouldn't have talked to him if I was alone, but I probably would
have- just to be polite. He was most likely 'shopping' me as a victim. He was walking very quickly ahead of me as we talked and I walked more quickly to be able to hear him and continue the conversation. I kept looking back to make sure I could see or hear my group. When the trail split, he went the other way than we did. My husband noticed that when we got to the bottom of the trail, the suspect, Hilton, was behind us. I don't know if he doubled back to see if I was alone or not."

[LionRun]

Bedangit, Jinxie and cwiz! What excellent finds! Either one or both men spoken about in those blogs may have been Hilton. If so, it seems that he may have been sizing up his chances for attack on both. And, if the man in the reported white van was not Hilton, whomever it was may have been sizing up one or both women for an eventual attack. Scary stuff!

Any news on who to send this info on? They are probably getting many, many tips/leads/sitings concerning Hilton these days, so I understand the importance of getting this and any other info directly to the correct department.

Lion

[MeoW333]

MasterJ that does sound like him.

MeoW..not sure about that post. What would be the connection to Hilton? Am I missing something?

I'm sorry SS, i forget.. i'm going through some of the hiking journals using "vietnam vet" (Hilton pay have tried to pass himself off as one)
In case of hiker ran across him on the trails and then we can get the potential siting date down maybe we can rule out which ones may be Hilton then we can connect if there were any murders in that area.

[MeoW333]

Jinxie, how are ya'll dividing up the trailjournals to search? I can check some years if you want

[InterestedNHelping]

hey folks, if you don't know who in LE to contact in Georgia, contact Christine2448, she's a mod and in GA, she will help you forward this stuff to LE.(ps.most trail folks that hike regularly have trail names)
Best Wishes
(hope that's ok Christine!)

[i.b.nora]

http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=214369

"Thursday, January 10, 2008

As of 8am this morning, I have contacted GBI and the Union Co. Sheriff's department to give my statement about my encounter in the previous journal entry.

If there are any other hikers out there who can remember meeting Gary Micheal Hilton along any part of the trail in North Georgia/North Carolina in the past five years, I would strongly suggest letting them know.

-Wind-up"

[JinxieJada]

http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=214369

"Thursday, January 10, 2008

As of 8am this morning, I have contacted GBI and the Union Co. Sheriff's department to give my statement about my encounter in the previous journal entry.

If there are any other hikers out there who can remember meeting Gary Micheal Hilton along any part of the trail in North Georgia/North Carolina in the past five years, I would strongly suggest letting them know.

-Wind-up"


Thanks for the update - since he directly contacted them, I'm going to hold off. I think it's better anyways it came from "the source" vs a reader?

MeoW, I haven't gotten around to getting w/ anyone to divide it up. My youngest is teething atm so I'm hit or miss here. Ya'll want to figure something out amongst us via pms? I'll be on for a bit here....lmk!o

Everyone that seems to recall him, recalls the van and his dog, maybe we should focus on those key words to get started? Are we focusing on the Appy trail to start with. I know we have ideas and even evidence he's been elsewhere, but we have to start somewhere right?


L

[cwiz24]

Everyone that seems to recall him, recalls the van and his dog, maybe we should focus on those key words to get started? Are we focusing on the Appy trail to start with. I know we have ideas and even evidence he's been elsewhere, but we have to start somewhere right?

L

I've already searched both the journals and the forums on that site for 'Dandy', 'white van', and 'Mack'. That's where I found the entry I added above. Remember, if you search the forums, you cannot only search the Appalachian Trail--all journals from all hikers are accessed.

[MeoW333]

This story is weird:
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=97749

[JinxieJada]

This story is weird:
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=97749

Wow..Freaky!

Not sure if it's our guy though. No mention of the dog..the other blog is from 2005, and the dog is mentioned. BUT he could have the dog stashed somewhere..The white van. UGH...I'm paranoid when I see one now!

Should we compile a list of "almost certain, possibles, and nah don't thinks so's" lol or something similiar once we find more of these?

[MeoW333]

It sounds good to me!! =)

[close_enough]

This story is weird:
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=97749

yikes!:eek: i agree...weird for sure...i have a very good friend that doesn't live too far from Damascus....

[aj1020]

This story is weird:
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=97749

SUPER SUPER weird! I got the heebie jeebies reading that!

[Kristins1223]

Well I've never posted anything before but I'm so interested in what is going to unfold with this story. I checked out the hikers website and found this.....possibly using a fake accent??

http://www.trailjournals.com/text/entry.cfm?id=4255

[JinxieJada]

I've found a couple different entries from different hikers/posters in the Damascus area talking about a roaming golden retriever, but the dog does NOT appear friendly nor well trained. BUT what caught me, is one person called the dog "daisy" and it laid right down on the spot....


That's the only thing that closely (daisy/dandy a bit similiar) matches, other than the desc. of the dog. Ya'll want me to post the entries anyway, or just keep them saved in case we need them for later?

[gardenmom]

hey folks, if you don't know who in LE to contact in Georgia, contact Christine2448, she's a mod and in GA, she will help you forward this stuff to LE.(ps.most trail folks that hike regularly have trail names)
Best Wishes
(hope that's ok Christine!)

I don't know if it was a trail name, but it was reported he called himself "Mack".

[happy2bn10ec]

yikes!:eek: i agree...weird for sure...i have a very good friend that doesn't live too far from Damascus....

Yep, that would be me and here is the email I just sent to close today -

I have been hanging on that one, too. Which led me to this: last night I was talking about it and looking at pictures of the guy and Dylan comes in here and started talking about this guy that used to hang out at the campground a couple of summers ago. He drove a white van (don't know what kind)with FL tags and Dylan was scared of him. He would park in the lower parking lot and open the side door. He had a dog with him - don't know what kind of dog either - and he would lay there and sleep in the back of the van UNTIL anyone walked through that end of the park or parking lot. Then he would shut the door and drive off. Well...you know how suspicious I am about people - but I wasn't the only one. Everyone up there was talking about this guy being creepy and just acting strange. Anyway, we mentioned this to Scott, the Law Enforcement Ranger from the Forest Service that occasionally came through. The next time he saw that van down there, he went up and tried to start a converstaion with him - he asked him first if he had paid the fee to park there and the guy says no, he had a Golden Age pass, which by the way, doens't mean you can go free - just half-price. But Scott said the guy acted so irritated that he didn't even correct him on that point - it's only $1 to park anyway. Seems like he asked him to see his license and he must have had it. Anyway, he said the guy just acted really aggravated at him and when he walked off, the man shut the van up and left. The next morning, Scott said he got to the Forest Service office in Erwin, and there was a two-page typed complaint sent in an email from the library in Damascus about him "harassing" this guy. THE GUY HAD WENT TO TOWN AND EMAILED THEM A COMPLAINT!!!

I showed Dylan his picture and of course, this is a kid's memory, but he said it could be him. He said he had a white beard at the time and had on some type of hat but he couldn't remember what kind. I never got near enough to see him or the van for that matter. But I am wondering if this could have been that guy. He NEVER showed up around there again after Scott talked to him that day.

[angelwngs]

Yep, that would be me and here is the email I just sent to close today -

I have been hanging on that one, too. Which led me to this: last night I was talking about it and looking at pictures of the guy and Dylan comes in here and started talking about this guy that used to hang out at the campground a couple of summers ago. He drove a white van (don't know what kind)with FL tags and Dylan was scared of him. He would park in the lower parking lot and open the side door. He had a dog with him - don't know what kind of dog either - and he would lay there and sleep in the back of the van UNTIL anyone walked through that end of the park or parking lot. Then he would shut the door and drive off. Well...you know how suspicious I am about people - but I wasn't the only one. Everyone up there was talking about this guy being creepy and just acting strange. Anyway, we mentioned this to Scott, the Law Enforcement Ranger from the Forest Service that occasionally came through. The next time he saw that van down there, he went up and tried to start a converstaion with him - he asked him first if he had paid the fee to park there and the guy says no, he had a Golden Age pass, which by the way, doens't mean you can go free - just half-price. But Scott said the guy acted so irritated that he didn't even correct him on that point - it's only $1 to park anyway. Seems like he asked him to see his license and he must have had it. Anyway, he said the guy just acted really aggravated at him and when he walked off, the man shut the van up and left. The next morning, Scott said he got to the Forest Service office in Erwin, and there was a two-page typed complaint sent in an email from the library in Damascus about him "harassing" this guy. THE GUY HAD WENT TO TOWN AND EMAILED THEM A COMPLAINT!!!

I showed Dylan his picture and of course, this is a kid's memory, but he said it could be him. He said he had a white beard at the time and had on some type of hat but he couldn't remember what kind. I never got near enough to see him or the van for that matter. But I am wondering if this could have been that guy. He NEVER showed up around there again after Scott talked to him that day.

OMG, sounds way too familiar to discount. It could very well have been him!

[KR2tonenow]

I'm sorry SS, i forget.. i'm going through some of the hiking journals using "vietnam vet" (Hilton pay have tried to pass himself off as one)
In case of hiker ran across him on the trails and then we can get the potential siting date down maybe we can rule out which ones may be Hilton then we can connect if there were any murders in that area.


Right, plus he could be Mack?? The way he rambled on sounds like the personality MO. A personality that stands out in everyone minds. Not scary enough to report, but creepy enough to document.

[close_enough]

Yep, that would be me and here is the email I just sent to close today -

I have been hanging on that one, too. Which led me to this: last night I was talking about it and looking at pictures of the guy and Dylan comes in here and started talking about this guy that used to hang out at the campground a couple of summers ago. He drove a white van (don't know what kind)with FL tags and Dylan was scared of him. He would park in the lower parking lot and open the side door. He had a dog with him - don't know what kind of dog either - and he would lay there and sleep in the back of the van UNTIL anyone walked through that end of the park or parking lot. Then he would shut the door and drive off. Well...you know how suspicious I am about people - but I wasn't the only one. Everyone up there was talking about this guy being creepy and just acting strange. Anyway, we mentioned this to Scott, the Law Enforcement Ranger from the Forest Service that occasionally came through. The next time he saw that van down there, he went up and tried to start a converstaion with him - he asked him first if he had paid the fee to park there and the guy says no, he had a Golden Age pass, which by the way, doens't mean you can go free - just half-price. But Scott said the guy acted so irritated that he didn't even correct him on that point - it's only $1 to park anyway. Seems like he asked him to see his license and he must have had it. Anyway, he said the guy just acted really aggravated at him and when he walked off, the man shut the van up and left. The next morning, Scott said he got to the Forest Service office in Erwin, and there was a two-page typed complaint sent in an email from the library in Damascus about him "harassing" this guy. THE GUY HAD WENT TO TOWN AND EMAILED THEM A COMPLAINT!!!

I showed Dylan his picture and of course, this is a kid's memory, but he said it could be him. He said he had a white beard at the time and had on some type of hat but he couldn't remember what kind. I never got near enough to see him or the van for that matter. But I am wondering if this could have been that guy. He NEVER showed up around there again after Scott talked to him that day.

:eek: what do you want to bet it was him...course i guess we'll never know for SURE, but that's awfully close, girl!!....all the woods, mountains, trails & all around you....eeeeek!

just got back from doing a load of laundry, so i haven't checked email yet...ugh, getting a new washer tomorrow, thank GOD!!!!...had some comforters & a BUNCH of stuff, so i loaded up two of the triple loaders at the laundromat, lol......will be drying clothes all night, i guess:rolleyes:

[happy2bn10ec]

:eek: what do you want to bet it was him...course i guess we'll never know for SURE, but that's awfully close, girl!!....all the woods, mountains, trails & all around you....eeeeek!

just got back from doing a load of laundry, so i haven't checked email yet...ugh, getting a new washer tomorrow, thank GOD!!!!...had some comforters & a BUNCH of stuff, so i loaded up two of the triple loaders at the laundromat, lol......will be drying clothes all night, i guess:rolleyes:

Just for curiosity's sake, I am going to see if I can find out more about the email he sent to the regional office - I know some people that could find out if any info is still available about it - mostly I want to know when it was written. I am thinking it was 2005, but it may have been 2006. I am sure that he didn't sign his name to it, but maybe there will be something I can learn. The only thing - I probably won't be seeing any of those people that could find out for me until April.

[close_enough]

whoaaaaa!....so you're saying that this creepy guy used a computer at the library???......hmmmm

[close_enough]

Just for curiosity's sake, I am going to see if I can find out more about the email he sent to the regional office - I know some people that could find out if any info is still available about it - mostly I want to know when it was written. I am thinking it was 2005, but it may have been 2006. I am sure that he didn't sign his name to it, but maybe there will be something I can learn. The only thing - I probably won't be seeing any of those people that could find out for me until April.

ok, you answered my question with this post:)

very interesting, indeed....IF it's Hilton, he's not 'afraid' of using a computer....again, interesting!

[close_enough]

& BTW.....i know your oldest boy (i know his name of course, but not sure if you want it mentioned here) has hiked that trail a few times....make sure you tell him to be VERY careful from now on.....(i'm sure you've discussed this with him already, BUT thought i'd mention it anyway)

[happy2bn10ec]

Yes, he used the internet at the library in Damascus. They could tell the email came from there, but I'd bet the rent he didn't sign his name!

I have told Brian ( I don't mind mentioning his name!) for years I didn't like him hiking the AT alone, not only because of people, but what if he slipped and sprained his ankle or something like that? But he hasn't listened to me in years anyway. However, I don't think he will be "allowed" to go on any hikes anytime soon - he is so "whupped" now.

& BTW.....i know your oldest boy (i know his name of course, but not sure if you want it mentioned here) has hiked that trail a few times....make sure you tell him to be VERY careful from now on.....(i'm sure you've discussed this with him already, BUT thought i'd mention it anyway)

[happy2bn10ec]

ok, you answered my question with this post:)

very interesting, indeed....IF it's Hilton, he's not 'afraid' of using a computer....again, interesting!

Seems like I read somewhere that there were some people that thought he used to post at the Whiteblaze site, but I can't remember where I read it. But I would bet he can use a computer. A lot of thru-hikers use computers whereever they can get on them to keep in touch with family while they are on the trail and of couse, to keep the trail journals. I have been reading some of the journals for a few years. Met a girl this spring from Atlanta and she came up and camped with us during Trail Days -she almost hiked the whole thing and I followed her journal all the way.

[Reannan]

I just about jumped up out of my chair at that comment about having used the computer at the library!!! From what I have seen on tape of Hilton, and from the interactions of people who have encountered him, he is brazen and confrontational. Using a computer at the library makes perfect sense. LE need to know about this possibility also, because like us, they may not be searching for an internet account since he was "homeless". Big mistake - even the homeless in America can be connected to the world via the net. :doh:

[close_enough]

Seems like I read somewhere that there were some people that thought he used to post at the Whiteblaze site, but I can't remember where I read it. But I would bet he can use a computer. A lot of thru-hikers use computers whereever they can get on them to keep in touch with family while they are on the trail and of couse, to keep the trail journals. I have been reading some of the journals for a few years. Met a girl this spring from Atlanta and she came up and camped with us during Trail Days -she almost hiked the whole thing and I followed her journal all the way.

aaahhh, ok.....i don't know anything about Whiteblaze...interesting about the girl from Atlanta!...how cool:)

[happy2bn10ec]

http://www.traildays.info/index3.html

Here's a link for anyone with some time on their hands who wants to look through pictures from Trail Days - it's a festival they have every year in Damascus and there are thousands and thousands of hikers there every year. It's like a big hiker reunion - lots of people plan their hikes so they will be in Damascus during that week. Some people even hike on past and come back for it. Anyway, I think there are lots of links to albums on here from different years, so maybe one of us can find him there...ya never know!

[close_enough]

Whiteblaze "currently down"...what IS whiteblaze???...a forum for hikers?

[happy2bn10ec]

I just read somewhere that whiteblaze has been hacked and possibly could damage your computer so I wouldn't try to find it right now!


aaahhh, ok.....i don't know anything about Whiteblaze...interesting about the girl from Atlanta!...how cool:)

[happy2bn10ec]

Yes, it's a forum for several trails in the US - for hikers to compare notes and keep in touch.

Whiteblaze "currently down"...what IS whiteblaze???...a forum for hikers?

[close_enough]

I just read somewhere that whiteblaze has been hacked and possibly could damage your computer so I wouldn't try to find it right now!

lol, too late!....i clicked on the link that's listed at the "trail days" site & whooooaaaaa, got some really creepy music & a black page with a hand on it, with some 'choice words' for admin at whiteblaze:eek:

i got out of there quick, eeek!

[happy2bn10ec]

I just about jumped up out of my chair at that comment about having used the computer at the library!!! From what I have seen on tape of Hilton, and from the interactions of people who have encountered him, he is brazen and confrontational. Using a computer at the library makes perfect sense. LE need to know about this possibility also, because like us, they may not be searching for an internet account since he was "homeless". Big mistake - even the homeless in America can be connected to the world via the net. :doh:

I think I would describe the way he acted talking to the ranger as "brazen and confrontational" - that is the main reason I think it may have been him.

[happy2bn10ec]

lol, too late!....i clicked on the link that's listed at the "trail days" site & whooooaaaaa, got some really creepy music & a black page with a hand on it, with some 'choice words' for admin at whiteblaze:eek:

i got out of there quick, eeek!

I did the same thing after I just warned you! I just clicked on one of the links for the albums and didn't notice it was whiteblaze. I wonder if the hacking has anything to do with this case??? Kinda funny about the timing - first time I know of that this has happened there. I bet they have had a lot of extra traffic since this case busted wide open.

[close_enough]

I did the same thing after I just warned you! I just clicked on one of the links for the albums and didn't notice it was whiteblaze. I wonder if the hacking has anything to do with this case??? Kinda funny about the timing - first time I know of that this has happened there. I bet they have had a lot of extra traffic since this case busted wide open.

yep, the site is having trouble, obviously!...."currently down"

[JinxieJada]

I found a document w/ his signature on it. Yes, I know it's his signature. Did ya'll know that his boss' wife is an attorney in the area? Anyways, is it ok to post this? OR can I send it to someone and they post it? I can't get images to just insert, it gives me a link.

[gardenmom]

lol, too late!....i clicked on the link that's listed at the "trail days" site & whooooaaaaa, got some really creepy music & a black page with a hand on it, with some 'choice words' for admin at whiteblaze:eek:

i got out of there quick, eeek!

OH, Crap! I clicked on it and got that page too, I thought I got a wrong link, so I left without clicking on anything else. Please tell me I didn't catch a virus on my spankin' new computer!?

[laini]

Can someone tell me what the name has to do with this guy? I found some photos with this name on a diff. trail site. Can't remember where I read that name here. TIA

[JinxieJada]

Wanted everyone to see these before they got buried, in case the location ring a bell with someone -


I ran the name that's out there as possiby belonging to his ex wife (ursual hilton is what I ran, in florida..nothing so far on her coming up)


Gary Hilton
DOB N/A
14578 River Beach Drive # 215
Port Charlotte, Fl, 33953

North Carolina addy

Gary Hilton
DOB N/A
812 N Center Street
Warsaw, NC 28398

Got a hit for South Carolina,

No address, just a city, phone number and his name though.



*even though DOB is not available, this name is the only one that came up when I included the DOB so I don't know what to take on it* nothing coming up in Alabama, nor Penn...what other states should I be looking at?
anyone else find/seen these?
http://websleuths.com/forums/images/misc/progress.gif

[SeriouslySearching]

The next morning, Scott said he got to the Forest Service office in Erwin, and there was a two-page typed complaint sent in an email from the library in Damascus about him "harassing" this guy. THE GUY HAD WENT TO TOWN AND EMAILED THEM A COMPLAINT!!!
This is information the FBI and GBI should follow up on. It furthers providing a timeline of his whereabouts prior to Meredith's murder. The Forest Service in Erwin might not connect the two events and I would recommend you let LE know they need to look into it.

[sillyhead]

This one is showing up in the tool I use as Gary Lynn Hilton, w/ a DOB of 5/09/1947.



North Carolina addy

Gary Hilton
DOB N/A
812 N Center Street
Warsaw, NC 28398

[Reannan]

I get Gary L. Hilton at 812 N. Center Street in Warsaw, NC; and a birthday of 9/1/1947. Can't find much more about the Florida address.

Wanted everyone to see these before they got buried, in case the location ring a bell with someone -


I ran the name that's out there as possiby belonging to his ex wife (ursual hilton is what I ran, in florida..nothing so far on her coming up)


Gary Hilton
DOB N/A
14578 River Beach Drive # 215
Port Charlotte, Fl, 33953

North Carolina addy

Gary Hilton
DOB N/A
812 N Center Street
Warsaw, NC 28398

Got a hit for South Carolina,

No address, just a city, phone number and his name though.



*even though DOB is not available, this name is the only one that came up when I included the DOB so I don't know what to take on it* nothing coming up in Alabama, nor Penn...what other states should I be looking at?
anyone else find/seen these?
http://websleuths.com/forums/images/misc/progress.gif

[sillyhead]

9/1 is a default dd/mm in a lot of databases, probably the same one I found.

[Beyond Belief]

Name:Gary M HiltonGender:Male Spouse's Name:UrsualDivorce Date:10 Dec 1971County:Miami-Dade Certificate Number:040460

[hollyjokers]

I read on Steve Huff site Hilton's dob is 11/22/46 - Ted Bundy born exactly two days later.

The stuff you guys are digging up on the trailblogs is fascinating!

[JinxieJada]

http://www.traildays.info/index3.html

Here's a link for anyone with some time on their hands who wants to look through pictures from Trail Days - it's a festival they have every year in Damascus and there are thousands and thousands of hikers there every year. It's like a big hiker reunion - lots of people plan their hikes so they will be in Damascus during that week. Some people even hike on past and come back for it. Anyway, I think there are lots of links to albums on here from different years, so maybe one of us can find him there...ya never know!

Ive went through the bottom three sets of photos - they all appear to be in groups for the event though. I have a lovely poster who I've befriended on Whiteblaze who is sending me some links to look though for photos from Trailbloggers on The GA trails...I have a feeling we're going to see him and possibly dandy in at least one...No guarantees just that gut hunch....

[SteveHuff]

Name:Gary M HiltonGender:Male Spouse's Name:UrsualDivorce Date:10 Dec 1971County:Miami-Dade Certificate Number:040460

Incidentally, his ex's name is misspelled in the records. It was Ursula. Her maiden name was Gros, and she may have originally been a German national. It appears as though she married two more times and died in 2001, after an extended illness.

Steve

[sweetmop]

Not sure if this has been posted anywhere yet.

I didn't think that what we already knew of this horrible crime could get any worse, but this article shows otherwise...

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/15011719/detail.html



I pray for Meredith's family, that God give them an abundence of strength to get through this nightmare!

[JinxieJada]

I just about jumped up out of my chair at that comment about having used the computer at the library!!! From what I have seen on tape of Hilton, and from the interactions of people who have encountered him, he is brazen and confrontational. Using a computer at the library makes perfect sense. LE need to know about this possibility also, because like us, they may not be searching for an internet account since he was "homeless". Big mistake - even the homeless in America can be connected to the world via the net. :doh:


In some areas, The homeless even have voicemail! I'll try to dig up the article but it was about making them more productive ie - being able to call on housing, benefits, jobs etc. Do we know if he didn't have one of these? It wasn't a city/county type program it was nationwide (IIRC) paid for by a homeless nonprofit group.

[Alex]

I live near the AT in Georgia, and I have hiked this section many times. I know of a Cooper Gap on the AT near Blood Mountain, where Meredith was taken. (But for all I know, there may be a Cooper Gap in Pennsylvania!) Down here, the sequence goes like this: Cooper Gap, Gooch Gap, Woody Gap, Jarrad Gap, Freeman Bird Trail WSW trailhead, Slaughter Gap, Blood Mtn summit, Mountain Crossings Store at Walasi-yi (Neel's Gap), and, altogether, this represents, if memory serves, about 25 miles.

I tried to read all the posts, but I may have missed something. You may already have this article from the Gainesville Times in north Georgia, which discusses how Hilton's presence on the AT, at Gooch Gap especially, was known to LE for the past nine months!

http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/archive/2551

In case I got the url messed up, the article discusses how hikers complained of Hilton "taking over" the Gooch Gap shelter, spreading his stuff around, running them out when the through-hikers tried to stay there, and so forth.

To me it's a mystery why LE didn't hide out and lay some binocs on him in order to roll him up for "disorderly conduct" and toss his van. I thought if you were an ex-con, LE doesn't need a search warrant. Does any one know about this? If Luminol had turned something up in that van, Meredith would still be with us, maybe!...Unbelievably sad!

I'm thinking of heading up there this weekend to see if any the coves around Gooch Gap shelter have anything unpleasant buried in the leaves. If LE didn't bestir themselves for nine months prior to Meredith's tragedy, I wonder how much, really, they've bestirred themselves since.

By the way, did anyone hear a story about a "store clerk" seeing Hilton walking behind Meredith "near the trailhead" with his baton in hand? I have that in my notes, but missing the attribution. I wouldn't have thought the store would be open on New Year's Day. Have to check on that because the trail to Reece Loop, where her car was parked, is at the end of a different trail from the one that leads to Mountain Crossings Store at Walasi-yi. If she was seen walking to the store, it may have meant that, suddenly, finally, she'd gotten scared and was obeying martial arts rule number one: get to a public place if you can.

[panglossian]

I live near the AT in Georgia, and I have hiked this section many times. I know of a Cooper Gap on the AT near Blood Mountain, where Meredith was taken. (But for all I know, there may be a Cooper Gap in Pennsylvania!) Down here, the sequence goes like this: Cooper Gap, Gooch Gap, Woody Gap, Jarrad Gap, Freeman Bird Trail WSW trailhead, Slaughter Gap, Blood Mtn summit, Mountain Crossings Store at Walasi-yi (Neel's Gap), and, altogether, this represents, if memory serves, about 25 miles.

I tried to read all the posts, but I may have missed something. You may already have this article from the Gainesville Times in north Georgia, which discusses how Hilton's presence on the AT, at Gooch Gap especially, was known to LE for the past nine months!

http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/archive/2551

In case I got the url messed up, the article discusses how hikers complained of Hilton "taking over" the Gooch Gap shelter, spreading his stuff around, running them out when the through-hikers tried to stay there, and so forth.

To me it's a mystery why LE didn't hide out and lay some binocs on him in order to roll him up for "disorderly conduct" and toss his van. I thought if you were an ex-con, LE doesn't need a search warrant. Does any one know about this? If Luminol had turned something up in that van, Meredith would still be with us, maybe!...Unbelievably sad!

I'm thinking of heading up there this weekend to see if any the coves around Gooch Gap shelter have anything unpleasant buried in the leaves. If LE didn't bestir themselves for nine months prior to Meredith's tragedy, I wonder how much, really, they've bestirred themselves since.

By the way, did anyone hear a story about a "store clerk" seeing Hilton walking behind Meredith "near the trailhead" with his baton in hand? I have that in my notes, but missing the attribution. I wouldn't have thought the store would be open on New Year's Day. Have to check on that because the trail to Reece Loop, where her car was parked, is at the end of a different trail from the one that leads to Mountain Crossings Store at Walasi-yi. If she was seen walking to the store, it may have meant that, suddenly, finally, she'd gotten scared and was obeying martial arts rule number one: get to a public place if you can.
Thanks for that link-I for one hadn't seen it and it contains good information.

[gardenmom]

Thanks, Alex, and welcome!

[sweetmop]

Welcome Alex!
And thank you for your great post and for the link.It breaks my heart that Meredith Emerson couldn't have beed saved from the horrors I'm sure she endured prior to the creep murdering her! Sad!

Alex, be safe when you are out there!

[Alex]

I appreciate the welcome, and will do my best to behave myself. Don't hesitate to tell me if I break the rules. I have admired you folks' smarts since a google alert link took me over here after Meredith's tragedy. I surfed through a bunch of similar sites, but IMO you guys are the best. As I recall, some of you had GMH's whole criminal history posted, while for the next two days, local LE and the press were still scratching their heads, saying, "Who is Gary Hilton? We've got nothing on him!"

Local press here is saying the GBI (real cops) are plowing up the woods with a vengeance in those areas where GMH camped, so my wife and brother have prevailed on me to keep my nose out of there...for the time being. I guess I'll stay at home and paint the stairs or something.

It did dawn on me why GMH chose to base himself out of that particular shelter, but I suspect the mods wouldn't want me to post that, since it would amount to a primer for copycats. Dang! But take my word for it, we need to tell the ATC to tear that shelter down and move it!

[Niner]

Welcome to WS - Alex!!

your quote:
I thought if you were an ex-con, LE doesn't need a search warrant. Does any one know about this?

Actually - if you are on parole or on probation - then YES! Police can search ANYTHING of yours... house, car, or your person!! :eek:

[Pure Maple Syrup]

It did dawn on me why GMH chose to base himself out of that particular shelter, but I suspect the mods wouldn't want me to post that, since it would amount to a primer for copycats. Dang! But take my word for it, we need to tell the ATC to tear that shelter down and move it!
Why not just post it and let the mods remove it if that's the way they feel?

I personally don't think the ATC needs to be tearing anything down just b/c of Hilton. There are tons of shelters on the AT that attract unsavory locals, partyers, etc. Knowledgable hikers know to avoid these and many thruhikers avoid all shelters as a rule anyway...

[Pure Maple Syrup]

You may already have this article from the Gainesville Times in north Georgia, which discusses how Hilton's presence on the AT, at Gooch Gap especially, was known to LE for the past nine months!

http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/archive/2551

Quote from that article:

"And after Hilton’s photo appeared in the media, many people recognized him. "Lots of my customers are now saying, ‘Yeah, I ran into that guy.’" Porter said. "One customer said they met him on the trail Saturday (the day after Emerson is believed to have been killed)."
"
Not possible. Hilton was arrested Friday night, the same day he killed Emerson. He was in custody on Saturday.

[ThoughtFox]

I just want to say that this thread has some great sleuthing going on!

:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

I think all of it ought to be printed out and mailed to the police in that area, or e-mails should be sent. Those are some creepy encounters!

I never would have thought to read online trail journals, even though I've read Bill Bryce's Appalachian Trail book twice!

As for hikers using the library - I'm sure that's true. Homeless people use libraries in every town and city, and that's a good reason not to ever leave your purse or valuables on a table and walk away from it. (I used to work in a library.)

This case has scared me half to death. I live near that area, and drive through there all the time. My family always stops at scenic overlooks, and we've definitely had some strange encounters with trucks circling the parking lots.

This guy seems to have stayed near the main roads, but there are some really remote places around. I keep thinking of the Cherohala Skyway between TN and NC - a long, lonely stretch of road with alot of overlooks. We drove it once in early spring and we were about the only people there, and now I realize just how vulnerable we were - it makes me shiver. I love the woods and I've lived around here all my life, but I'll never really feel too safe again.

[Alex]

Pure Maple Syrup, Great catch! You'd think the journalist herself would have seen the discrepancy. She's got an email address up there. Maybe one of us should email and ask her. "What's up with that?" Maybe she just mis-thought when she was typing it up. Or maybe the hiker quoted meant the Saturday BEFORE New Year's Day--I have in MY notes that the store staff had been unnerved by Hilton's seedy presence at the trailhead for two or three days prior. ... Or maybe frightened people will be seeing Hilton on the trail for decades after the plunger gets pushed.

I didn't just go ahead and post that stuff about the GG shelter because I didn't think the mods would be up at 2 am when I was able to get the post together.

It is important to this thread--and I know we're supposed to stay on the thread-- because if we're looking for other missing hikers and other encounters with Hilton on the trail, we ought to draw up the best picture we can of his MO. Without being too specific about GG, let me say that I think we are looking for entries near road crossings at the AT, the faster and harder the road, the more secluded the road, the better. The serial killer literature--I wish there were no such a thing--seems to suggest that serial killers like to hang around trailheads. Whack 'em quick, toss 'em in the van, speed away! Does anyone know how far from the trailhead Irene Bryant's body was found? One can only surmise that Hilton forced John back to the parking area so he could keep him tied up, riding around in his van, until he extracted a workable PIN number. A map of those trails up there near Bryson would be informative, but, unfortunately, the bulk of my USGS maps pertain to Georgia, so I may not have anything to offer on that point.

In Georgia, we are looking for Gooch Gap entries and Cooper Gap entries and Hawk Mtn entries in the trail journals...those are CLOSEST to a fast dirt backroad. Maybe Plumorchard Gap and Low Gap, also. (There may be one or two others, but, due to a housekeeping debacle, I have been unable to access my notes.) I think the trail entry already cited for Cooper Gap is definitely him and not just because of the proximity to Gooch Gap. It just sounds like him. I used to work as a psychiatric attendant, a thousand years ago, but the instincts I had to develop then still serve me. His complaining about his knees(?), all that "I am not harmless" schmooz, and the rest, really sounds just like him. But the other journal entry, the one from VA, the one with the songs about Jesus and the Devil...that's someone else. Hilton is not someone who worries about his relationship TO God; Hilton thinks he IS God and no doubt about it.

Thanks for the info about parole and probation versus time-served. Am I correct, though, that ex-convicts cannot possess any klnd of weapon? Is the baton considered a weapon? Also, in the deputy's dashboard video encounter, did that deputy run his tag and not just his driver's license? If the stolen tag was on his van at that point, wouldn't it have had to match the driver's name and vehicle VIN number? What would LE do if an obvious trespasser were to refuse to let his bag be checked for weapons? Would the refusal itself constitute "probable cause"? How come the VIN/ Tag mismatch didn't raise a red flag? I just can't accept that this spider slipped through every net!

I don't know where the rest of you all are located, but here in GA, the local papers have begun to run stories about LE rounding up homeless people and throwing their tarps and gear into the back of sanitation trucks. County plans to build a homeless shelter, finally. I guess where there's a will, they can find a law.

One final word. I seem to recall someone saying that experienced hikers know how to avoid the "party shelters" or something like that--Was Hilton giving a party?. ( Forgive me if I got it wrong.) I've got to say that in forty years of hiking those mountains, with far too much time on that carnival road, the AT, I somehow lost my former, "Life is dangerous,--so what!" philosophy. Because, before I started hiking exclusively off-trail, I saw so many really pitiful souls sallying forth so hopefully on that damned AT, with their boots still unbroken-in and with them never having even spent the night in their backyard, and myself having read so many of their shelter journal entries saying, " I cried all night", that I just can't hike away with the all-purose motto, "Well, it's not my problem!" If we are the ones with the experience, and if it's our bravado (mostly false) that has called these lonely gawky folks out here in search of "character-building" and "adventure", it must be our responsibility to look out for them a little bit, don't you think?

[Pure Maple Syrup]

One final word. I seem to recall someone saying that experienced hikers know how to avoid the "party shelters" or something like that--Was Hilton giving a party?. ( Forgive me if I got it wrong.)
Re: shelters. There are numerous shelters on the AT that are well-known to the AT hiker community to be "trouble spots". By that I mean shelters which, due to their proximity to a road or town, attract partying locals/teenagers, etc who go there to drink, raise hell, etc. There is an entire area of whiteblaze.net devoted to discussion of each shelter, BTW.

I checked there, no mention of Hilton at all, or any partying/trouble at Gooch. As far as what he was doing there, well, he was homeless, and Gooch Gap Shelter is a relatively new, modern, clean shelter (I stayed there myself last spring during my hike). He had to stay somewhere. It's also a place from which he could pick and choose potential victims as they hiked past. Alex, do you have other info or ideas why he choose Gooch?

[Alex]

To Pure Maple Syrup: It hooks up to the Dawson forest, clearly his preferred dumping ground, via those secluded FS roads out of there southwards.

I didn't know they had rebuilt the shelter. When I was there, it was so old and moldy that I would have guessed it pre-dated the road. Did they rebuild it on top of the old stacked rock foundation? Back when I was there, it couldn't have been more than 300 yards from the road, which, as best as I can recall, was the closest to a fast road of any of the AT shelters in Georgia. And with the old one, the latrine was so close to it, he could've watched from there any solo females using the latrine, to estimate their vulnerabilties by body language etc.. I have law enforcement in my family who agreed with me that the set-up of a shelter so close to a fast hard surface dirt road which led right down to Dahlonega was a big mistake. No law enforcement personnel I've talked to would ever let their loved ones camp so close to a major thoroughfare. The locals use that road just as if it were paved to go over towards Hwy 52 and the Dahlonega area. I don't know if you had any occasion to access a store from that location but the road also leads straight away northwards to the Suches Valley (Hwy 66?), and from there, another paved road (180?) cuts over past Lake Winfield Scott to the Reece Loop where Meredith was kidnapped.

Refusing to let any hiker into the shelter, at least where it was years ago, would've forced the hiker to use the flat area immediately adjacent to the road...and therefore...adjacent in just a few yards...to his parked van. I don't think I need to explain how that would be perfect for his MO.
To him it would be like sitting in survey of a large box of chocolates, any one of which he could pick up and toss in his van at his whim.

I hope you don't mind if I refer all future bereaved fathers to you. I hope the mods are on duty to dump this post if they don't like it.

I never suggested that folks are not just as much at risk for crimes of other descriptions at any of the other shelters, only that this shelter was especially well laid out for Hilton's MO.

Getting back to our main theme, did no one find any links to articles naming the trail upon which the body of Irene Bryant--God rest her soul--was found in North Carolina?

[Native New Yorker]

Truly, that sounds really creepy and odd!

Alex, thanks for all your trail insights. Any thoughts I might have had of hiking in the future are now out of the question for me! I almost think I would feel safer in some ways, in a NYC subway.....just too many wide open spaces in public parks for my taste...

I also think that we must not lose sight of the dog factor in all of this....I do not think that Meredith would have spent one minute talking to this guy, had her dog not been off leash, and running with his cute and friendly dog.
His dog was very disarming, and I feel that it distracted more than one person from GMH, at least long enough for his purposes.
I have spent many years at dog parks, where all dogs are off leash. That fact causes a peculiar vulnerability for some, though not all owners. I have seen more than one owner trying to leave for over an hour, and being unable to corral their dog. Once the dog is off leash, the balance of power shifts, UNLESS the dog is perfectly trained, as I am sure Dandy was.

I also must tell you that I no longer go to dog parks, as I have seen too many negative incidents, dog bites, owner fights....there are just too many uncontrolled variables, and I would imagine that public lands or parks would be even more that way....

With GMH, we had the combination then, of a monster who knew those trails backwards and forward, knew all the shelters and hiding places, and had an unwitting accomplice, I firmly believe, in his dog.

[Pure Maple Syrup]

I didn't know they had rebuilt the shelter.

Yes, six years ago. See attached image, below, for what it looks like now.

I hope you don't mind if I refer all future bereaved fathers to you. Huh? :confused:

[Native New Yorker]

I personally do not think that GMH went to any hiker gatherings whatsoever. Ever. I think that he was strictly a predator/loner, who was always on the prowl, but from a distance.

I even doubt that he even interacted with other dog owners who might have been hiking. That would have been too risky for him.

Truly, I guess I just found it odd that no one in the journals commented right away on Meredith. The weather just before her kidnapping was indeed very warm, so I can see how that would have been commented on.

Any thoughts from any of you on my dog theories?

[panglossian]

Truly, that sounds really creepy and odd!

Alex, thanks for all your trail insights. Any thoughts I might have had of hiking in the future are now out of the question for me! I almost think I would feel safer in some ways, in a NYC subway.....just too many wide open spaces in public parks for my taste...

I also think that we must not lose sight of the dog factor in all of this....I do not think that Meredith would have spent one minute talking to this guy, had her dog not been off leash, and running with his cute and friendly dog.
His dog was very disarming, and I feel that it distracted more than one person from GMH, at least long enough for his purposes.
I have spent many years at dog parks, where all dogs are off leash. That fact causes a peculiar vulnerability for some, though not all owners. I have seen more than one owner trying to leave for over an hour, and being unable to corral their dog. Once the dog is off leash, the balance of power shifts, UNLESS the dog is perfectly trained, as I am sure Dandy was.

I also must tell you that I no longer go to dog parks, as I have seen too many negative incidents, dog bites, owner fights....there are just too many uncontrolled variables, and I would imagine that public lands or parks would be even more that way....

With GMH, we had the combination then, of a monster who knew those trails backwards and forward, knew all the shelters and hiding places, and had an unwitting accomplice, I firmly believe, in his dog.

Since I got my pup, I have had more senior men with dogs come over and suggest we let 'em loose to play. I thought this peculiar until a lady told me these guys go to all the parks in our county and get warned by the rangers about having dogs off leash. I admit, not an angle as sinister as GMH, but an angle. GMH may have appeared to be one of these types.

[indigomood]

*snipped quote*
Getting back to our main theme, did no one find any links to articles naming the trail upon which the body of Irene Bryant--God rest her soul--was found in North Carolina?
If my memory serves me, I thought I recall it being the Pink Beds Loop Trail. I may be wrong. I have no link.

[Alex]

To Pure Maple Syrup: The site won't let me view your photo of the new Gooch Gap shelter. I guess you folks have a hierarchy of privileges for which I fail to qualify, probably with good reason. Maybe you can just tell me whether you know if the ATC tore down the old crummy shelter and which side of the road the new one is on. I wouldn't have recommended they tear down a new one--probably costs about $10,000 to put one up these days. Can't believe its been six years! I guess my memory has gone the same way as my knees. How far from the road is the new one? I seem to remember the more reliable water source being on the NE side of the FS road. Sorry about the other silly remark. ( I'm usually pretty sleepy by the time my wife lets me log on.) It was just a bad attempt at a wry remark. I just don't like doing stalking research for serial killers. Since you are an experienced AT hiker you'll remember through what a long stretch the FS road closely parallels the trail up around Hawk Mtn and Cooper Gap!

Never mind about the trail the Bryants were on that terrible day in October. I got that info off a link posted by Close Enough. October 21st was a Sunday, right? Seems peculiar that in autumn leaf season they would've been the only ones on that trail or in the parking area, doesn't it?

[Alex]

Indigomood, your memory is correct. You must have posted while I was composing!

[indigomood]

Indigomood, your memory is correct. You must have posted while I was composing!

Thankyou Alex, here is a link..

Deaths not deterring Upstate hikers

http://www.independentmail.com/news/2008/jan/09/deaths-not-deterring-upstate-hikers/

The search for the couple centered on the Pink Beds Loop Trail in the Pisgah National Forest, near Brevard. Ms. Bryant’s body was found there in November, covered with leaves.

*more at link*

[panglossian]

I can't access that link from Pure Maple Syrup either:(

[Alex]

To Native New Yorker, about the odd absence of journal entries near New Year's Day on Blood Mountain..

My theory is that Hilton wasn't hiking the AT back and forth to his lair at Gooch Gap. Too far. Too much work. If you're familiar Blood Mountain on the weekends and holidays, you know it's very busy with dayhikers. Even on the coldest days there's 50-100 hikers all over that mountain. It's so close in travel time to metro Atlanta, and it's right on a major highway, US 129. According to my media notes, the store staff there at Neel's Gap had been complaining about Hilton lurking around the trailhead for three days. I think he was just driving over in his van each day via the Lake Winfield Scott road, parking at the Reece loop, and evaluating his "selection" on the mountain. Brazen, yes. But he must have known by the third day that there wasn't going to be any deterrent, like a deputy's car in the parking lot. A dismal failure of forethought by all concerned, if you ask me. But then, maybe the county only has one car.

[Native New Yorker]

I cannot access the link, either.

Panglossian, thanks for your response about the dogs.
You are always more vulnerable when your dog is off-leash...
unless of course you are in a friend's backyard. I am not kidding when I say that is the only kind of place I plan to let my dog be off leash in the future.

I read somewhere about how the Bryants picked that area of NC to retire to precisely so that they could pick up and hike whenever they felt like it. So it does not surprise me at all that they were out on a day when not many were.
They did not live far from there, whereas others might have traveled in to see the leaves, etc. From what I read, they were a lovely couple, and I am so sad about what happened to them.....

[Native New Yorker]

Alex, I agree with what you wrote about GMH...yes, of course he was just driving in...he was most certainly not the typical hiker, was he?
As far as having a deputy car there as a deterrent....no one could have known that was needed......
it is only in hindsight that we can see with such clarity.....

[concernedperson]

Alex, I agree with what you wrote about GMH...yes, of course he was just driving in...he was most certainly not the typical hiker, was he?
As far as having a deputy car there as a deterrent....no one could have known that was needed......
it is only in hindsight that we can see with such clarity.....

I agree about hindsight. This is a beautiful place that one would have thought relatively safe. It takes awhile to connect the dots when a serial is operating. I live about a mile and a half from where he was staying at the siding company. To me this area seems safe but it really wasn't...was it?

One day I saw someone pandering for money at the Publix grocery store and couldn't believe how brash this person was as it doesn't happen. Yes, it does happen. It can happen everywhere. I alerted the manager but what else can we do as citizens. This Publix was across the street from the Chevron station that Hilton was arrested at. Typically, one would expect these types of occurrences in the southwest portion of Atlanta not the northern section.

How wrong we are when we assume.

[panglossian]

Alex-
Your information has been so enlightening. The original information about the trail at Blood Mountain sounded like he abducted her from the trail parking lot and just jumped onto the main super highway. Your description and re- enactment/theory makes so much more sense of what he probably did. I don't know anything about that part of the AT, only the AT Pennsylvania north to Maine.

[Pure Maple Syrup]

I'm on the way out the door, thanks for the info Alex, I will try to anwer your qestions when I get back in later.

Sorry about the link everyone, no idea what the prob is.

Anyway, if anyone is interested/curious about what this shelter looks like, if you enter "Gooch Mountain Shelter" into Google images, or just google alone, you will find lots of pics. Again, sorry for the messed up link.

Alex is right, it used to be a nasty, filthy rundown affair. But now it's one of the nicer shelters on the AT.

[panglossian]

Thank you, Pure Maple Syrup. Looks very nice!

[sweetmop]

To Pure Maple Syrup: It hooks up to the Dawson forest, clearly his preferred dumping ground, via those secluded FS roads out of there southwards.

I didn't know they had rebuilt the shelter. When I was there, it was so old and moldy that I would have guessed it pre-dated the road. Did they rebuild it on top of the old stacked rock foundation? Back when I was there, it couldn't have been more than 300 yards from the road, which, as best as I can recall, was the closest to a fast road of any of the AT shelters in Georgia. And with the old one, the latrine was so close to it, he could've watched from there any solo females using the latrine, to estimate their vulnerabilties by body language etc.. I have law enforcement in my family who agreed with me that the set-up of a shelter so close to a fast hard surface dirt road which led right down to Dahlonega was a big mistake. No law enforcement personnel I've talked to would ever let their loved ones camp so close to a major thoroughfare. The locals use that road just as if it were paved to go over towards Hwy 52 and the Dahlonega area. I don't know if you had any occasion to access a store from that location but the road also leads straight away northwards to the Suches Valley (Hwy 66?), and from there, another paved road (180?) cuts over past Lake Winfield Scott to the Reece Loop where Meredith was kidnapped.

Refusing to let any hiker into the shelter, at least where it was years ago, would've forced the hiker to use the flat area immediately adjacent to the road...and therefore...adjacent in just a few yards...to his parked van. I don't think I need to explain how that would be perfect for his MO.
To him it would be like sitting in survey of a large box of chocolates, any one of which he could pick up and toss in his van at his whim.

I hope you don't mind if I refer all future bereaved fathers to you. I hope the mods are on duty to dump this post if they don't like it.

I never suggested that folks are not just as much at risk for crimes of other descriptions at any of the other shelters, only that this shelter was especially well laid out for Hilton's MO.

Getting back to our main theme, did no one find any links to articles naming the trail upon which the body of Irene Bryant--God rest her soul--was found in North Carolina?


Hi Alex.
John And Irene Bryant were hiking in the Pisgah National Forest, in the section called the "pink beds.
Enjoy and appreciate all of your input here.

[Alex]

I really wish there was some way we could reconstruct Meredith's movements on the mountain that day. Did her roommate ever comment about what time of the morning she left to go up there? It wouldn't have taken more than an hour and a half from where she lived.

One of my personal projects is to figure out whether what criminologists call bystander apathy played any part in what ultimately happened that day. You know-- being too self-absorbed to pause and notice signs of Meredith's distress while this nasty, smelly, disheveled creature was glomming onto her. The literature says that the more people that are present at a crime scene, the less anyone feels like they, personally, have any responsibility to act. I know the main foottraffic--at least when I've been there-- used to be on the switchbacked AT segment to the summit. The Freeman Bird Trail is a sidetrail, which, at one end, joins the AT roughly opposite the AT access trail to the Reece Loop parking area. Possibly Pure Maple Syrup could update me on this. Used to be that the Bird Trail travelled, fairly level in pitch, around the south flanks of Blood Mtn, and then rejoined the AT (not far from one of the three shelters in the area) on the southwestward side of the mountain. I believe it's the original AT route. In the beginning the AT didn't go over the summit. I could be wrong about that though. The Bird Trail would be ideal to jog on-- my memory is that it's rather quiet and definitely secluded. When my wife and I hiked that trail on a weekday long ago, we didn't encounter a single other soul.

My picture of him taking the backroads whenever he could is strengthened by the fact that he was driving with that stolen tag on his van. To go the long, paved way to Dawson Forest with Meredith in the van, he would have to go through a number of stoplights in both Cleveland, GA and Dahlonega, GA, where the police are sometimes parked near the squares looking for something to do.

[gardenmom]

Alex, that kind of reminds me of something that happened at my kid's school. My friend and I were walking our kids home and she noticed that a man was walking along with 2 kids and talking to them and they looked really uncomfortable. I didn't really get any red flags, but she did. So, she stopped and asked the kids if they knew this man and they DIDN'T! The man didn't have any other children with him, but school had just let out. There were probably 30 people, kids and parents that saw the man and kids, but only my friend noticed something amiss. It was a good thing she stopped. The man just kept going. So, I can see that some people may have seen, but didn't "see."

[Native New Yorker]

And, I must add, that there are regional differences in how people respond
...I have found that many Southerners can be too polite to intervene, as can many rural Midwesterners...not so here in the Chicago area, though....people are pretty outspoken if they see something amiss.....
though in a truly big city area, people can " mind their own business" out of fear....

[Alex]

Dear Folks, Am I correct in assuming that the purpose of the vB code is to discourage us from clogging up the forum with too much "cut and paste"? Or is it just something about my browser that won't co-operate when I try to put in text of url's. Finessing url's is not my strong suit. I wanted to share these two websites with their Pink Beds photos where those two sweet folks, the Bryants, were lost. Such a beautiful place! If these url's don't work, I'll try again.

http://www.hikewnc.info/trailheads/pisgah/pisgah/guidedhikes/pinkbeds.html

http://www.localhikes.com/Hikes/PinkBedsLoop_0000.asp

Maps here say you get off the BRP at marker 41.2 and take US276 four miles south. I'm taking this layout to mean that Hilton was stalking trailheads up and down the BRP. Just trolling. First one place, then if no prey, on to the next.

I picture him "camped out" on one of the picnic tables at the trailhead. The Bryants pull up and park, start off up the trail and he simply waits a minute or two and starts out after them.

However, there is another parking area which looks to be on a dirt road beyond where the loop starts back which is nevertheless connected to the far end of the loop by a single footpath. That other area would have to be ruled out as a place for his van to be parked, waiting. It would be more trouble to set up his trap that way but it would have one distinct advantage. After murdering Irene he could avoid having to walk back with John on a trail up which a newly arrived hiker could be moving...assuming the parking area on the dirt road were the one less likely to be used.

[Alex]

gardenmom and Native New Yorker, you've got my idea exactly. Some commentators have seen Meredith as too sweet and polite to make a scene, but I don't get that impression. I think she was just gritting her teeth, counting on her martial arts, and trying to suffer through it. But I do not believe for a minute that she would try to hide her distress. That's not the way her roommate described her in one TV interview I saw. She said Meredith would have no trouble at all letting you know if she saw something she didn't like.

[eachandevery]

I am just so, so disturbed by this case. I know that if I had come across this "kind, old man" with a dog, I would think nothing of it and happily strike up a conversation, walking along with him. As a dog owner, I just - wrongfully - assume that anyone who has a dog is a decent person. I would have totally fallen for his act. The case has really opened my naive eyes. Poor, poor Meredith, and all of the other victims (and I'm sure there are plenty). I hope he gets exactly what he deserves.

[ThoughtFox]

I am just so, so disturbed by this case. I know that if I had come across this "kind, old man" with a dog, I would think nothing of it and happily strike up a conversation, walking along with him. As a dog owner, I just - wrongfully - assume that anyone who has a dog is a decent person. I would have totally fallen for his act. The case has really opened my naive eyes. Poor, poor Meredith, and all of the other victims (and I'm sure there are plenty). I hope he gets exactly what he deserves.
From the beginning it's been apparant to me me that this guy liked dogs better than people. He let Meredith's dog run free in a store parking lot where it would be found and adopted, but slashed her throat and decapitated another human being. That just tells us everything we need to know about his priorities. :furious:

[Native New Yorker]

Two things:

I think that Meredith did grow uncomfortable with GMH, but could not leave, because she did not have her dog....
Ella was running with his dog, so she was stuck...until it was too late....

I also do not think that GMH liked dogs. He used his own dog as a lure, much as Bundy used a cast. I have read other accounts of other dogs that GMH had, so I just wonder how many dogs he went through in his awful reign of terror?
I think that Ella escaped ( as others have suggested) when he was dumping evidence from his van. He could not get her back, without drawing undue attention, so had to leave her. I do not for one minute think that this was an act of charity on his part.....

[Pure Maple Syrup]

I know the main foottraffic--at least when I've been there-- used to be on the switchbacked AT segment to the summit. The Freeman Bird Trail is a sidetrail, which, at one end, joins the AT roughly opposite the AT access trail to the Reece Loop parking area. Possibly Pure Maple Syrup could update me on this. Used to be that the Bird Trail travelled, fairly level in pitch, around the south flanks of Blood Mtn, and then rejoined the AT (not far from one of the three shelters in the area) on the southwestward side of the mountain.
I wish I could be of more help, but my experience in this area is limited to the AT itself, specifically a NOBO hike from Springer to and through most of NC last spring. I do recall the intersection of Meredith's trail to the AT, I stopped to have a snack there on way my down Blood Mtn. She would have turned right from where I was and headed uphill to the summit.

I know from earlier reports and trail journals that she was seen at the summit of Blood Mtn, so it makes sense that she parked, took the trail from the Reece trailhead, got on the AT, went up Blood and then retraced her steps back down. Hilton apparently got her not far from the parking area as she was headed down.

That's about all I can add. I do remember Gooch shelter especially well, since I stayed there almost 24 hours waiting out a humongous thunderstorm and resting an injured knee. I don't recall a road near it, but there could have been, I suppose. It was a great shelter!

[Truly]

I have been reading more AT thruhikers logs this evening, and a hiker on trailjournals who is currently hiking named stumpknocker posted on Tues, Jan 11, 2008 that he discovered an abandoned tent w/sleeping bag and blanket, pots and cups, water bag frozen solid, a can of ravioli, and a bunch of handwarmers. He said, "From the looks of things, it's been there for awhile." The abandoned camp is at Locust Cove Gap in NC, near Cheoah and the Fontana dam. Made me think of the Millani missing hiker?

[Pure Maple Syrup]

I have been reading more AT thruhikers logs this evening, and a hiker on trailjournals who is currently hiking named stumpknocker posted on Tues, Jan 11, 2008 that he discovered an abandoned tent w/sleeping bag and blanket, pots and cups, water bag frozen solid, a can of ravioli, and a bunch of handwarmers. He said, "From the looks of things, it's been there for awhile." The abandoned camp is at Locust Cove Gap in NC, near Cheoah and the Fontana dam. Made me think of the Millani missing hiker?
Hasn't Milliani been missing about three years? I saw Stumpknocker's photos and also read the discussion of the items over on Whiteblaze. Looks like the stuff's only been there a few weeks at best. A cheap walmart tent like that wouldn't still be standing after much longer than that.

[gardenmom]

Alex, I am not too "tech savvy" but I do know that you have to post pictures here through a host site like photobucket. The way I do it is to save picture as to my pics and then go to photobucket and upload the pic there, then copy the url here. It's kind of complicated to explain, but it might be posted somewhere in the forum. I will try to find it for you. Unfortunately all we can do right now is post the link, because the website is experiencing some technical issues, but that is not usually the case.

[panglossian]

I am just so, so disturbed by this case. I know that if I had come across this "kind, old man" with a dog, I would think nothing of it and happily strike up a conversation, walking along with him. As a dog owner, I just - wrongfully - assume that anyone who has a dog is a decent person. I would have totally fallen for his act. The case has really opened my naive eyes. Poor, poor Meredith, and all of the other victims (and I'm sure there are plenty). I hope he gets exactly what he deserves.

Yeah and Hilton must have been really turning it on to appear kind and old. Not his usual demeanor from what I can tell. And not old, especially from the dash-cam where he was hopping around, more like spry. I don't know why she would have fallen for his act, but then wasn't Meredith preoccupied and upset as stated on her MySpace acct...
Does this mean women can't walk in the park if they are preoccupied?! Now there are all these qualifiers that have entered into the freedom to hike.:furious:

[panglossian]

Oh!! And welcome eachandevery!!! :)

[ThoughtFox]

Two things:

I think that Meredith did grow uncomfortable with GMH, but could not leave, because she did not have her dog....
Ella was running with his dog, so she was stuck...until it was too late....

I also do not think that GMH liked dogs. He used his own dog as a lure, much as Bundy used a cast. I have read other accounts of other dogs that GMH had, so I just wonder how many dogs he went through in his awful reign of terror?
I think that Ella escaped ( as others have suggested) when he was dumping evidence from his van. He could not get her back, without drawing undue attention, so had to leave her. I do not for one minute think that this was an act of charity on his part.....
You're welcome to believe that, but the dog is alive, and Meredith is not. There's no evidence this guy has ever killed a dog. So to me, this means that people can love their pets, but hate humanity in general.

[Native New Yorker]

Ella is alive possibly because there is no fun or power in killing animals, as they cannot beg for their lives.
Many murderers do begin with abusing animals, and then escalate to humans.

There is absolutely zero evidence that GMH liked dogs, other than the fact that he has been seen over the years with several. He was reported for "beating a black dog " in Atlanta.
It has also been written that he threatened poorly behaved dogs, on at least one occasion.
Dandy, from all accounts was perfectly behaved, and I wonder just how she was trained....
Of course, I could be wrong, and he might have been a loving dog owner, taking his dog for regular check ups, etc.
Somehow I doubt it.
Meredith's murder is so upsetting to me, on so many levels, but as a dog owner, I find it most disturbing that he seemed to use her dog/his dog to lure and distract her......

[Native New Yorker]

oh, I forgot to also say welcome to each and every!

Couldn't Meredith have been distracted just by the two dogs playing together (focusing on how much fun they were having), then as it dawned on her that this guy was NOT someone she wanted to be with....then it was not so easy to get Ella to come back to her....she might have been having fun with Dandy....

For those who are not dog owners, imagine taking your toddler to a playground, where she starts playing with another cute child....the kids are having fun, but then it dawns on you that the child is with a very creepy and weird acting mom...how do you easily call your child and leave quickly??? Not so easy, I am afraid. ALL of your attention would be on trying to leave, and you would not focus so much on the other adult, I would think....

[panglossian]

Ella is alive possibly because there is no fun or power in killing animals, as they cannot beg for their lives.
Many murderers do begin with abusing animals, and then escalate to humans.

There is absolutely zero evidence that GMH liked dogs, other than the fact that he has been seen over the years with several. He was reported for "beating a black dog " in Atlanta.
It has also been written that he threatened poorly behaved dogs, on at least one occasion.
Dandy, from all accounts was perfectly behaved, and I wonder just how she was trained....
Of course, I could be wrong, and he might have been a loving dog owner, taking his dog for regular check ups, etc.
Somehow I doubt it.
Meredith's murder is so upsetting to me, on so many levels, but as a dog owner, I find it most disturbing that he seemed to use her dog/his dog to lure and distract her......

Really, we don't know if Ella escaped from the van or if he turned her loose because she was evidence. Either way, she was loose for quite awhile on a busy road at risk of getting hit and killed. No one said they saw him chasing a lab that day to save her from that fate.

[Truly]

Hasn't Milliani been missing about three years? I saw Stumpknocker's photos and also read the discussion of the items over on Whiteblaze. Looks like the stuff's only been there a few weeks at best. A cheap walmart tent like that wouldn't still be standing after much longer than that.

Thanks, Pure Maple Syrup, I haven't seen the photos, or other discussions yet. What do you think of the idea that the abandoned camp might have belonged to Hilton? He's been in custody for a few weeks, and might have had a camp somewhere in addition to his vehicle. Just an idea.

[Tallytowngirl]

Either way, she was loose for quite awhile on a busy road at risk of getting hit and killed. No one said they saw him chasing a lab that day to save her from that fate.

My thoughts exactly. Plus, it sounds as if he's had several different dogs, and he wasn't too nice to other people's dogs. He might have had some sort of feeling for his own dog, but it doesn't sound as if he much cared for *all* dogs.

The guy on WhiteBlaze who was quoted earlier in this thread did say that the guy that might be Hilton carried tweezers for his dog... But then, Hilton might say that to everybody hiking with a dog - as an opening line or something, and that's the sort of line that would probably work on Meredith. "oh, what a nice, considerate, thoughtful old guy! To care for his dog so much..."

Thing I wonder about - He took Ella with them - that's how she got to the parking lot. She was just a baby, I know, but I wonder - does Hilton have any bite marks? (I wish, at the very least...)

[panglossian]

It was said that Ella was timid and was to be a therapy dog, which takes a certain personality. Maybe the fact she might not have bitten him is what gave her a longer life than Meredith.

When I was on the AP I was warned by a couple of hikers about my dog coming in contact with porcupines. Stories of dog owners carrying their dogs off the trail to a vet. When I heard tweezers, that's what came to my mind- not for burs, stones or whatever he said, so I wonder about that, too. If there are porcupines in N.Carolina/ Georgia...

[eachandevery]

Thanks for the warm welcome, panglossian and Native New Yorker! Having lurked - man, that sounds creepy - on these boards for so long, it's nice to have finally registered and to be able to share space with such wonderful sleuths.

I wish there were some way to force Hilton to tell them everything he's done and knows, especially the location of John Bryant's body because I can't imagine anything worse than losing a loved one and never being able to locate the body. Personally, I would need it for complete closure.

Animal lover or not, I wonder what happened to his previous dogs - if he had any, that is. It wouldn't help this case at all, but I do wonder if they simply died of old age or if he conveniently got rid of them until he found Dandy, the dog who was able to "get it right" (i.e., help him lure victims). I also wonder if the dog belongs to one of the many victims we still don't know about; I'm having a hard time seeing him put in the time to train the dog when he had so much to do.

[panglossian]

Thanks for the warm welcome, panglossian and Native New Yorker! Having lurked - man, that sounds creepy - on these boards for so long, it's nice to have finally registered and to be able to share space with such wonderful sleuths.

[QUOTE] I wish there were some way to force Hilton to tell them everything he's done and knows, especially the location of John Bryant's body because I can't imagine anything worse than losing a loved one and never being able to locate the body. Personally, I would need it for complete closure.[QUOTE]

Animal lover or not, I wonder what happened to his previous dogs - if he had any, that is. It wouldn't help this case at all, but I do wonder if they simply died of old age or if he conveniently got rid of them until he found Dandy, the dog who was able to "get it right" (i.e., help him lure victims). I also wonder if the dog belongs to one of the many victims we still don't know about; I'm having a hard time seeing him put in the time to train the dog when he had so much to do.
I know we are all thinking the same thing-give him an injection of the truth serum like in the movies. Oh, well.

[Alex]

I saw an article, which I am pretty sure was a link on one of the posts on this forum, which had Hilton beating Dandy so savagely that a passer-by actually called 911 on his cell. As I recall, Hilton jumped in his van, enraged, and tried to run over the guy's wife. Dandy was described here or elsewhere, as having been so well "trained" by these beatings that he wouldn't even eat unless Hilton gave him a command to. Not only that, but when Hilton left the area for some reason, Dandy would stop eating. For what it's worth to evaluating Hilton's psychology, I'd have to say this sort of scene was enacted by him as a representation of how he himself was "disciplined" in childhood... if he had one.

[Truly]

Alex, I remember that story, too; it was either in the ajc or on wsb. The incident happened at Murphey-Candler. Sorry, I don't have the link either. Also, his 20 solicitation counts involved illegally handing out posters for Insulated Wall Systems with a photo of his dog on the flyer. I wonder who his family are? I recall reading that they had not seen him in years and did not want to have anything to do with him. Wish they'd warned the rest of us.

[Alex]

Truly, ---Me, I wish law enforcement had made arrangements to warn the hikers. Did any one hear anything about this Winton fellow, owner of the store, passing along the hikers' complaints to LE? To me, creeps are more important than bears and rattlesnakes to warn folks of. A notice on the trailhead bulletin board could have said, "There have been complaints about ragged homeless folks harrassing hikers in the area. Remember that law enforcement is miles away and that there is no cell phone signal on the mountain."

Just kidding. But seriously, I'm not too happy about the way this creep was handled by all concerned. I know that LE can roll you up for even raising your voice when talking to them--"Ah! 'disorderly conduct'! You're under arrest! Come with me!" I've seen that with my own two eyes. To think Hilton was up there harrassing hikers for nine months and they couldn't think of a WAY to rack him up?! More likely they couldn't find the WILL to do the paperwork!

eachandevery, It would be out of order for me to welcome you, since I just got here myself! But, the more the merrier! Hi!...You said something I want to second wholeheartedly. This tragedy of Meredith has burned through me like a forest fire! Not the least because it happened in my own backyard, so to speak. I hope none of us get too far down the flurried scraps of the days-to-come that we ever for a minute forget what that poor young woman went through! This is just the worst thing I have had to hear of in decades! The unfairness is galling, suffocating! I, for one, intend never to rest till I ferret out every aspect of it!

PS: Talking to Hilton wouldn't have been as congenial as one might think! Witnesses say he stank like a landfill.

[Tallytowngirl]

Alex, I remember that story, too; it was either in the ajc or on wsb. The incident happened at Murphey-Candler. Sorry, I don't have the link either. .

Police reports link Hilton to violence (Tallahassee Democrat) (http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080114/NEWS01/801140319/1010)
recounts the incident of Hilton beating a dog in a park, and then trying to run over the wife of the guy who reported him. It also says the guy pressed charges about the dog, but not about the wife. (why not both? I don't know...)

[Pure Maple Syrup]

Truly, ---Me, I wish law enforcement had made arrangements to warn the hikers. Did any one hear anything about this Winton fellow, owner of the store, passing along the hikers' complaints to LE? To me, creeps are more important than bears and rattlesnakes to warn folks of. A notice on the trailhead bulletin board could have said, "There have been complaints about ragged homeless folks harrassing hikers in the area. Remember that law enforcement is miles away and that there is no cell phone signal on the mountain."
For anyone who isn't familiar with who Winton is, he is the owner of Walasi-yi (aka Mountain Crossings) the outfitter store there at Neel's Gap. It's only about 1/4 mile from where Meredith parked.

Winton is an extremely well-respected part of the AT community, he is legend in the tremendous help he gives thru-hikers. His shop is the very first "stop" for thru-hikers and Winton spends hours with folks, helping them trim down the pack weight, shipping stuff home for them, etc. I have little doubt that if Hilton really were as worrisome as the media claims Winton said, Winton WAS giving hikers the head's up. Obviously, Meredith didn't stop at Walasi for anything prior to starting her hike (that would have been reported in the news), otherwise, who knows, maybe she would have heard a warning.

As far a sign, yeah I