Defense-Insanity Plea?

[SeriouslySearching]

‘Significant mental health issues’
Hilton's attorney in the Georgia case, Neil A. Smith, said last week that the case involved "significant mental health issues." Hilton is being held without bail.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22700174/

It doesn't surprise me that the Defense Attorney would be setting him up for an Insanity plea, but I don't think it will fly in his case. How many serial killers were saved by this defense? :confused:

[JinxieJada]

Hasn't his Attorney said that from the beginning though? IIRC he mentioned that when the search for Meredith was still ongoing.

Which points to exactly what you said " A set up" for the plea. But damn..He kept her for THREE days, kept going back to the atm;s etc. Seems he was of the right mind to know all that!

And who knows how many other victims of his are out there discovered as well as undiscovered/identitified...Let me guess.. The "voices" made him do it!



**Note** I know that hearing voices is a sign of serious mental illness, and I'm not making light of those that suffer. However, I do have an issue when individuals make choices and try to blame it on a mental illness. Hence my comments above where sarcastic in Nature towards the idea that GMH would attempt to blame an "outside force" for the atrocities he committed***

[fran]

I believe part of the mental health issue will be if he knew 'right from wrong.'

IMHO, he did, does, he's guilty!:behindbar

Guess they won't be calling me for jury duty. ;)

JMHO,
fran

[Karole28]

And, don't forget, this guy was running scams and collecting $$ for nonexistent charities. He's not some drooling maniac. Ok, well, he is, but you know what I'm saying.

[Native New Yorker]

You know what else bugs me about the whole insanity angle?? Someone posted some messages on Steve Huff, that a supposed friend of the family had posted on Channel 11's board....saying that the family cut him off years ago, as he was nothing but trouble, etc.

" From what I have heard he was bad news even as a child"

and "Hilton does have family but they have had no contact with him for over 20 years"
and "Hilton was bad news for along time. His family has nothing to add. "

I am sorry to say this, but if his family felt this way about him, they had an obligation, IMHO to have him put away before he hurt someone ( IF this poster is even legit)

It sounds like they knew what a monster he was, or was becoming, and they just left him for society to deal with,

[aj1020]

But how do you have him "put away"?? I get your point, but he's an adult. In most states you can't restrain him if he doesn't want to be restrained. Unless he was a proven to be a threat to himself or others (which he obviously was a threat, but this has only recently come to light) there wouldn't have been a way to keep him locked away. I know he's crazy, insane, and generally a waste of our air, but from all accounts he was mentally capable of being on his own and making decisions (albeit poor, poor decisions) - he held a job, drove a car, etc.

You know what else bugs me about the whole insanity angle?? Someone posted some messages on Steve Huff, that a supposed friend of the family had posted on Channel 11's board....saying that the family cut him off years ago, as he was nothing but trouble, etc.

" From what I have heard he was bad news even as a child"

and "Hilton does have family but they have had no contact with him for over 20 years"
and "Hilton was bad news for along time. His family has nothing to add. "

I am sorry to say this, but if his family felt this way about him, they had an obligation, IMHO to have him put away before he hurt someone ( IF this poster is even legit)

It sounds like they knew what a monster he was, or was becoming, and they just left him for society to deal with,

[panglossian]

The family should have alerted someone, I agree. I'm no mental health professional, but I've always heard that mental illness begins to manifest around puberty through the early 20's.
Also,my ATM has a daily limit on withdrawals at the drive through. I think it is $300. Might explain his repeat visits. Sane enough to go to different ATMs.

[sweetmop]

The monster knew how to manipulate his victims. Approaching them in a manner that somehow gained their trust.

He knew how to " lay low " when neccessary.

He knew how to chat it up with that sherrif deputy that approached him ( we saw it on the dash cam video ). Remember his parting words to the deputy? " Hey I love ya. " !!!


He is a deceptive evil moster, and to play the mental health card is just plain wrong! :furious:

[aj1020]

The family should have alerted someone, I agree. I'm no mental health professional, but I've always heard that mental illness begins to manifest around puberty through the early 20's.
Also,my ATM has a daily limit on withdrawals at the drive through. I think it is $300. Might explain his repeat visits. Sane enough to go to different ATMs.

But what do you say? Do you call the cops and tell them your brother is "bad news"? Do you alert the FBI that your son is crazy?? Unless they had some proof that he was about to do something disastrous, LE has to reason to do anything. They can do welfare checks on him and make sure he's alive, but until they have reason to lock him up or "put him away" then he's going to stay on the streets.

I'm by no means validating what this horrible monster has done, but I don't think this is his family's fault. He was notorious in the community, people saw him out walking with his dog, yet they never had reason to turn him in for anything. He's a creepy, creepy guy and I'd sure have my guard up, but until he made an advance my way, I wouldn't call the cops on his creepiness alone. From some of the accounts of witnesses in the communities he frequented, it sounds like he was a chatty guy. Some even said he was pleasant. I think he knew exactly how to treat people so they wouldn't suspect he's the monster that he is.

[panglossian]

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the family is to blame for his choices. I do think that in the intimate atmosphere of family life there might have been incidents that could have been mentioned to a minister or school counselor if
they did indeed occur during the time of his exposure to the family. And it has been reported that they lost contact 20 years ago, at age 40, which would be ample time to witness other reportable events. However, I don't believe his insanity angle for one minute and don't believe he began his "mental illness" at any time, past or present.

[Native New Yorker]

Why then did three ( not one, not two)women divorce him? I am betting that plenty of people knew more about him than they will ever admit....and I will also bet that plenty of them were very afraid of him.
I am not familiar with other states, but in Florida, you can have someone "Baker Acted", locked away, but you have to have a court hearing, and evidence that the person is a danger to either themselves and/or others.

I have lived in some communities where people are just too afraid to get involved, too polite, whatever, but his own family had to know plenty about him.....

AND, how did a perfectly healthy young man get an HONORABLE discharge from the army in 1964, as Hilton did, when they were calling up young men to go to Vietnam. I will bet that they saw how nutty he was and just told him to leave voluntarily, and made it honorable....just to get rid of him...

[aj1020]

My own grandfather has been divorced twice, and he's far from crazy. Who knows why GMH's wives divorced him, and that's not really the point. You're making a lot of assumptions by saying that people were afraid of him, and that the Army thought he was crazy and discharged him. These things may or may not be true, but unless they had evidence of him harming people, they would have nothing to turn in. I choose to think that a majority of society has good in them - if they see a monster preparing to harm himself or someone else then I'm betting they would turn him in. And maybe they did, who really knows. But my point is he wasn't locked up or "put away" because there was no evidence to his crimes until recently.

Back to your original quote, you said the "if his family felt this way about him, they had an obligation, IMHO to have him put away before he hurt someone". But the family is (supposedly) quoted as saying "Hilton does have family but they have had no contact with him for over 20 years"
and "Hilton was bad news for along time. His family has nothing to add." A person being "bad news" and not having contact with his family does not a serial killer make. Especially if they haven't had contact with him in the last 20 years, who knows how fast this thing escalated.

Why then did three ( not one, not two)women divorce him? I am betting that plenty of people knew more about him than they will ever admit....and I will also bet that plenty of them were very afraid of him.
I am not familiar with other states, but in Florida, you can have someone "Baker Acted", locked away, but you have to have a court hearing, and evidence that the person is a danger to either themselves and/or others.

I have lived in some communities where people are just too afraid to get involved, too polite, whatever, but his own family had to know plenty about him.....

AND, how did a perfectly healthy young man get an HONORABLE discharge from the army in 1964, as Hilton did, when they were calling up young men to go to Vietnam. I will bet that they saw how nutty he was and just told him to leave voluntarily, and made it honorable....just to get rid of him...

[Native New Yorker]

AJ- You misunderstood me on a couple of points....

1. I believe that his wives divorced him BECAUSE of behaviors, actions on his part. His last two marriages were only for a few months. I also have two parents who were married and divorced several times, but I believe that the short-lived nature of Hilton's last two marriages speaks volumes..

2. During the Vietnam War, they began to draft able-bodied young men in 1964. Why would Hilton leave the army at this time? I find that very strange that he was in for such a short time, as that is not usual in the military world, as far as I know.

3. Why did his family cease contact with him 20 years ago? If true, that fact in and of itself is very revealing.

[aj1020]

I understand what you're trying to say. My point is, these items you mentioned below... numbers 1, 2, and 3, all happen to people everyday, for reasons that most of us don't understand. And even though these people are divorced, discharged, and disconnected from their families, an overwhelming majority AREN'T murderers. Trying to tie all these links together in order to figure out why GMH is the way he is, or why someone didn't report his behavior 20 years ago is futile - there's just too many unknowns.

AJ- You misunderstood me on a couple of points....

1. I believe that his wives divorced him BECAUSE of behaviors, actions on his part. His last two marriages were only for a few months. I also have two parents who were married and divorced several times, but I believe that the short-lived nature of Hilton's last two marriages speaks volumes..

2. During the Vietnam War, they began to draft able-bodied young men in 1964. Why would Hilton leave the army at this time? I find that very strange that he was in for such a short time, as that is not usual in the military world, as far as I know.

3. Why did his family cease contact with him 20 years ago? If true, that fact in and of itself is very revealing.

[DeltaDawn]

The truth is you can have someone observed in a hospital setting..as we all just witnessed with Brittany Spears, but if they are able bodied and do not show signs of hurting themselves and others within a 72 hour period they are released. If they do show signs then they are kept at the hospital to under go counseling and treatment and meds. Usually released back to the community within less then 2 weeks.

And most insurance companies will only cover this option when your entire deductable is met and then only at 50%. That's group policies....if you have your own insurance some policies won't pay for mental health treatment at all.

As far as I know we no longer have mental hospitals in our country where people who need support and treatment are kept for any significant amount of time. That ended with the Reagan decision to place these people back in the community, either with family or group homes. So Hilton still would have been out there roaming the streets. If you live in a community with mental health hospitals that have long term patients you are fortunate...for the most part they no longer exist and that is the reason for the huge and ever growing homeless population. Families cannot always take care of these people and many prefer to live as difters, as Hilton did.

I s he insane ..well if you consider what he did yes. A normal mind would not allow a person to do such things. However, is he competent to hold a job, drive a car, know right from wrong..absolutely..he knew he was wrong in what he did and even tried to get rid of evidence. So he should stand trial.

We used to actually have prisons in my state for the criminaly insane..like Hilton..people they knew never should be let out again or mix with the general prison population..but those are gone now to. So I think he should be tried and sentenced as any other member of society would be.

[Native New Yorker]

Delta Dawn- thanks for your insight, and I agree that he should be tried as a regular member of society...and I hope that happens...

It is indeed a shame that the mental health system in this country has evolved to put John Q. Public at risk.

I still think that it speaks volumes that his family apparently did not know if he was even alive. Every family has its misunderstandings and feuds, but that seems extreme. My main point was that I believe his behavior goes way, way back....and I think that a lot of people just chose to ignore him, or distance themselves from him..... maybe we need some type of registry ( like the sex offender database) for possible maniacal psychopath!

[panglossian]

Mrs.Tabor thought Hilton had been taking Ritalin. Upon looking at Ritalin on the web in general and, in addition, knowing a few people it was prescribed for, its side effects can be serious. Psychosis and hallucinations, for instance. The defense could be looking at both Ritalin side effects and withdrawal effects to make an insanity plea.

[fran]

Mrs.Tabor thought Hilton had been taking Ritalin. Upon looking at Ritalin on the web in general and, in addition, knowing a few people it was prescribed for, its side effects can be serious. Psychosis and hallucinations, for instance. The defense could be looking at both Ritalin side effects and withdrawal effects to make an insanity plea.

IMHO, that will only work if LE is NOT able to connect him to OTHER missing persons and not just the cases they so far have associated to him. In other words, IF they can connect him to a case prior to Ritalin, that defense won't work.

JMHO,
fran

[panglossian]

IMHO, that will only work if LE is NOT able to connect him to OTHER missing persons and not just the cases they so far have associated to him. In other words, IF they can connect him to a case prior to Ritalin, that defense won't work.

JMHO,
fran
I agree with you 100%.
I do think they would have to go the extra mile beyond connecting and linking and actually charge him with at least one case out of the current time period.

[KR2tonenow]

Mrs.Tabor thought Hilton had been taking Ritalin. Upon looking at Ritalin on the web in general and, in addition, knowing a few people it was prescribed for, its side effects can be serious. Psychosis and hallucinations, for instance. The defense could be looking at both Ritalin side effects and withdrawal effects to make an insanity plea.

Ritalin is often perscribed for 'Attention Deficit Disorder' ADD paitents, in my opinion, Gary Hilton suffers, acute Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and Scziophrenia, clearly Sciopathic personality. Ritalin when perscribed to this kind of paitent would cause the mania, not to mention he probably took in high dosages, which would cause the speed affect (talking incessantly), rambling and possible intense hallucinations.

Antisocial personality disorder (APD) is a mental disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder) defined by the American Psychiatric Association (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Psychiatric_Association)'s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-IV): "The essential feature for the diagnosis is a pervasive pattern of disregard for, and violation of, the rights of others that begins in childhood or early adolescence and continues into adulthood.
or possible "

As someone stated above, the Mental Health system has put many on the streets, note the increase in the homeless.

Gary Hilton should have been taken in several tmes, when questioned by police. Based on all of his priors, why weren't any of these "RED" flags for police to at least evaluate and observe him and get him off the streets!!

IMHO

[Native New Yorker]

Why would he have PTSD? For some reason, he was never sent to Vietnam, but was discharged by the Army in 1967, this at a time when the war was escalating, and they were drafting young men.

We do not even know if he was taking Ritalin....he might have just said that, or he might have had a stolen scrip ( from a victim!), or he might have been given it, and never taken it....

At this point we only know that he heinously killed several people, and had enough forethought and planning to have not one, but two white vans to use in his crimes, that he seemed able to use ATM machines, and was canny enough to fool a cop, and was smart enough to use a dog to ensnare victims.
I have been in close proximity to several schizophrenics over the years, and neither of them could have done any of these things....just think of all the slip ups he might have made, and did not! His actions took very careful planning, and an ability to hide and conceal.

[panglossian]

Why would he have PTSD? For some reason, he was never sent to Vietnam, but was discharged by the Army in 1967, this at a time when the war was escalating, and they were drafting young men.

We do not even know if he was taking Ritalin....he might have just said that, or he might have had a stolen scrip ( from a victim!), or he might have been given it, and never taken it....

At this point we only know that he heinously killed several people, and had enough forethought and planning to have not one, but two white vans to use in his crimes, that he seemed able to use ATM machines, and was canny enough to fool a cop, and was smart enough to use a dog to ensnare victims.
I have been in close proximity to several schizophrenics over the years, and neither of them could have done any of these things....just think of all the slip ups he might have made, and did not! His actions took very careful planning, and an ability to hide and conceal.
In the 1960s, if you were drafted it would be for 2 years,as I recall. Enlistment was 4 years. Or if you got into some minor trouble, a judge could give you a choice of jail or enlist for 3-4 years. The latter happened to my ex who ended up with 3. Could be the trouble Hilton had was prior to his service, not during, to be discharged in 3 years.

[Native New Yorker]

In the 1960s, if you were drafted it would be for 2 years,as I recall. Enlistment was 4 years. Or if you got into some minor trouble, a judge could give you a choice of jail or enlist for 3-4 years. The latter happened to my ex who ended up with 3. Could be the trouble Hilton had was prior to his service, not during, to be discharged in 3 years.

Thanks! That could be an explanation for why he only had three years of service, never went to 'Nam.
I do suspect that this monster had serious issues from way, way back, and everyone in his life just passed the buck, tried to distance themselves from him....and he just got worse and worse.

Unfortunately for those who fell into his clutches, he had a very, very HIGH level of functioning when it came to planning and carrying out vicious crimes.....and he was very highly motivated to do so....he does not seem to have been distracted by issues such as drinking...just seemed like a driven monster ( hiding his other van in the wilderness, training his dog to help him) all of this took some serious planning.

[Native New Yorker]

( From 11 Alive News, January 10, 2008)

The Cherokee County dash-cam video revealed a side of Hilton's demeanor that is hard to reconcile when compared to the monster behind the murder-decapitation of Emerson. Hilton is seen in the video smiling and joking with the deputy, full of explanations as to why he is trespassing in the private hunting preserve.

"First of all, he's not a person with a mental illness," observed forensic psychiatrist Dr. Dave Davis. "He doesn't have any problem with his speech being able to understand what's going on in the interview. He's actually glib."

11Alive News asked Dr. Davis, who has not treated Hilton, to review and analyze the dash-cam video. Davis said that if Hilton is guilty of the hikers’ murders, he is likely a master conman.

"Psychopathic people, or what we call anti-social personality disorder can appear quite normal," explained Davis. "All these people have sadistic personality characteristics. If he's committed these crimes, he could well be a sadistic psychopath."

[s_finch]

The monster knew how to manipulate his victims. Approaching them in a manner that somehow gained their trust.

He knew how to " lay low " when neccessary.

He knew how to chat it up with that sherrif deputy that approached him ( we saw it on the dash cam video ). Remember his parting words to the deputy? " Hey I love ya. " !!!


He is a deceptive evil moster, and to play the mental health card is just plain wrong! :furious:

Agreed. If he were insane he wouldn't have been cleaning the van with bleach because he wouldn't know he'd done anything wrong that needed "cleaning" or covering up. Insane is Andrea Yates (sorry, I know some of you disagree). Sane and EVIL is covering your tracks, staying on the move, knowing how to con people, knowing how to seem non-threatening, masking your face when using stolen ATM cards, and getting away with this for YEARS. I wonder if we'll ever know the true body county. My bet (from research on serial killers) would be he's been killing since at least his twenties if not earlier. Highly unlikely he started as late as his thirties.

As for his family, they probably did all they could. It's darn near impossible to have someone put away these days and to do so you have to have lots of solid proof they are a danger to themselves and society. It would seem to me he hasn't been a threat to himself and obviously the family knew nothing of his murders. I feel sorry for his family, what a load to bear.

[sweetmop]

Very well said, s finch.

Yes, the b*****d is not mentally insane! He is pretty cunning, and can think up a lie to cover his a** in a split second! He just finally got caught!

I believe some are just plain old evil! And this guy is EVIL!
I know they're going to play the insanity card, but hopefully the jury won't be fooled! And the judge won't be fooled!

I can not imagine a defense attorney representing such a poor excuse for a human!

[s_finch]

Very well said, s finch.

Yes, the b*****d is not mentally insane! He is pretty cunning, and can think up a lie to cover his a** in a split second! He just finally got caught!

I believe some are just plain old evil! And this guy is EVIL!
I know they're going to play the insanity card, but hopefully the jury won't be fooled! And the judge won't be fooled!

I can not imagine a defense attorney representing such a poor excuse for a human!

From the view point of a defense attorney how many angles do you really have???? Not that many. And I don't believe the jury will buy it.

Hilton is old, will no doubt die in jail and wouldn't live long enough to die of the dp even if he were to receive it. In general population he won't last long (IMO)---too antisocial. I do hope he'll survive long enough to decide to reveal all. The families of his victims deserve to know where their loved ones are and I'm going to state again, he didn't just start killing. He's left a path of death for decades. I hope his attorney can get him a safe enough place to keep him alive until he talks,,,,IF he talks.

[Native New Yorker]

Very, very well stated...I totally agree with all that you have said...
and I also think that he has been killing for many, many years...

yes, it must indeed be awful to have any connection to him...be it family or friends...I guess they all thought he was weird and unpleasant . I just hope that no one knew any more than that......

[panglossian]

I certainly hope that part of GMH's insanity act doesn't include amnesia about the locations of the other victims or amnesia about who all his victims were. His actions could further devastate those families who could be looking for the real killer if it wasn't him.

[panglossian]

From what I have been reading, only 26% of the insanity defenses are successful with 90% of the defendants having been previously diagnosed with mental illness. If he has a history of documented and treated mental illness, the people treating him were remiss with all aspects of his medical case, including addressing him psychologically with a follow up on this and medications. Giving an ADHD individual Ritalin should have calmed him, as I understand it works opposite with an ADHD patient than a non ADHD, such as an average kid using Ritalin as speed. A follow up would have revealed whether the medication was effective in this instance. If he committed all the murders that he's been linked to and his defense is claiming mental illness based insanity with historical documentation, then he has been on something for quite awhile and it wasn't being monitored properly.

[MeoW333]

There is no way an insanity defense could fly in this case. Hilton is a sociopath, he knows right from wrong, he just doesn't care. He's a chameleon who was able to appeal to whoever the person was he was trying to manipulate at the time. That explains his "solicitation" charges, conning money out of people for fake charities. It explains why he set off alarms for some, and not others.
His ritalin usage sounds like it made him manic, which is not surprising as ritalin is know on the street to youths as "poor man's coke".

[SeriouslySearching]

Wow! He pleaded guilty and got the term of Life in Prison. (Parole after 30 years.)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,327087,00.html

[chicoliving]

Good to hear!!

[Tallytowngirl]

I think it is pretty obvious that he's a sociopath - and I guess it might now be official
(Note: "The official stance of the American Psychiatric Association as presented in the DSM-IV-TR is that psychopathy and sociopathy are obsolete synonyms for antisocial personality disorder."wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder))

"Narcissistic behavior is not uncommon among those with antisocial personality disorders," said Davis, a veteran criminal profiler based in San Diego. "He likes the attention he's getting."UPDATED: 10:33 p.m. February 04, 2008
Hilton likely to be charged in elderly hikers' slayings (http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2008/02/04/hiker_0204.html)

He likes the attention he's getting. Sorry, that burns my biscuit...