Brianna Denison 19yo Reno NV

[jennyjwv]

RENO, Nev. — A 19-year-old college student mysteriously vanished from a Reno, Nev., home early Sunday morning, and cops fear she may have been kidnapped.
Brianna Denison, a student at Santa Barbara City College, was staying with friends near the University of Nevada, Reno around 4 a.m. Sunday.
"We're treating this as an abduction case right now," Lt. Robert McDonald of the Reno Police Department told FOX News. "A small amount of blood on her pillow is of interest to us."
Cops are looking for a GMC Suburban and a white male, about 45-years-old, who might be of Latin descent.
"He's certainly a person of interest. We're treating him as a person of interest, not a suspect," McDonald said.
Denison is described as white, 5-feet tall, 98 pounds, with long dark brown hair and blue eyes.
Investigators say she may have been wearing light blue or pink sweat pants.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,324345,00.html

[Tranaice]

What a beautiful girl. I pray this has a happy ending.

[jennyjwv]

Detectives are looking for a man who dropped off a friend of Denison's at the house where Denison went missing. The subject, described as a 45-year-old white man, drove a beige or light brown Chevrolet or GMC Suburban.

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080121/NEWS18/80121006&oaso=news.rgj.com%2Fbreakingnews

new pic @ link

[close_enough]

her purse & cellphone were found in the house, but a brown stuffed bear is missing.....odd

[Leila]

The Reno Gazette-Journal has more details and a better picture of Brianna here:

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080121/NEWS18/80121006&oaso=news.rgj.com%2Fbreakingnews

[ella's mom]

I read that too about the bear. It sounds like it is 2 feet tall. That's a pretty big stuffed animal don't you think. Maybe it is something she still slept with. Or maybe it was a gift she received that night or weekend from someone. I just don't understand why she would have it with her if she was kidnapped.

[close_enough]

I read that too about the bear. It sounds like it is 2 feet tall. That's a pretty big stuffed animal don't you think. Maybe it is something she still slept with. Or maybe it was a gift she received that night or weekend from someone. I just don't understand why she would have it with her if she was kidnapped.

same here, mom.....why grab the bear?

[Sassygerl]

I read that the friend gave it to her to use as like a second pillow. Still doesn't make sense why she would take it with her. Maybe he took it?

[glezell]

surveillance pic of vehicle driven by the man they are seeking to question....

http://www.abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=4166053&page=1

[murdershewrote]

well, if this 45 year year old dropped off a "friend" at her home, then it seems this friend ought to have alot more information about him than what is being put forth...or why would 19 year old be hanging out with a 45 year old anyway?

after reading link above, so these two just got into the car of a stranger to get a ride home...don't these kids know better by now??? I have a feeling maybe he was in the casino and talked to these girls earlier in the evening and then stopped and gave them a ride.

[murdershewrote]

Hate to say this but my first thought about the bear is that some of these pervs (making a huge assumption here I realize) have some kinky ideas and maybe the thought of her with the bear worked for him.

[galvino]

Yeah, the bear thing is wierd! Maybe he assaulted her in the home (thus the blood on the pillow, but he didn't see that cause her head was on it) blood was on the bear- which they said had white on it- and he COULD see that and so took it with him when he took her. Eventho it may be premature to say this, the 45 yr old man is suspicious considering the age of these girls. He may have dropped off the friend/her/both (not clear in the above link) and gone back....that'smy theory now!

[galvino]

Maybe the bloody pillowcase was navy, dark and he didn't know blood was on it. Maybe he saw her sleeping on the sofa when he dropped her friend off...Hmmmm

[Sabal]

http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/13957532.html

[KR2tonenow]

Detectives are looking for a man who dropped off a friend of Denison's at the house where Denison went missing. The subject, described as a 45-year-old white man, drove a beige or light brown Chevrolet or GMC Suburban.

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080121/NEWS18/80121006&oaso=news.rgj.com%2Fbreakingnews

new pic @ link
************************************************** ****
I hope they contact this possible connection to Brianna's disappearance.

and absolutely find the whereabouts of the ex-Oregon Boyfriend pronto!

[teacherbonnie]

I think the articles are quite confusing. One makes it sound like Ian gave Brianna a ride home also and then the next article doesn't. Anyway, if NOT Ian at 4AM then how DID Brianna get home? Did the 2 girls who did come home at 4AM see Brianna sleeping on the couch? Please set me straight here if you have figured out these arrivals. TY

[Beffie]

I just seen this last night when I caught the tail end of Nancy Grace. I read this in the link from the above post.

"Brianna's friend, KT seems to think it may have been just a random person who saw her friend sleeping inside. She made reference to two other recent rapes and attempted rapes that have taken place in that neighborhood."

So they knew there were rapes and attempted rapes in the area and still did not lock the door?

[Tranaice]

I just seen this last night when I caught the tail end of Nancy Grace. I read this in the link from the above post.

"Brianna's friend, KT seems to think it may have been just a random person who saw her friend sleeping inside. She made reference to two other recent rapes and attempted rapes that have taken place in that neighborhood."

So they knew there were rapes and attempted rapes in the area and still did not lock the door?

That was exactly what I thought Beffie. 4 girls living alone in a house with rapes in the area need to lock and deadbolt those doors. :( But, I remember when I was that age, I thought I was invincible. I pray they find Brianna soon.

[paddy01]

http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines/13957532.html

Thanks for the link, has alot more information. The part about the dog not barking bothers me, it would lead one to believe that the dog knew person who took Brianna.

[nanandjim]

I hope that this young lady is still alive. I feel certain that the family would give the kidnapper money in exchange for Brianna. Prayers are with this young woman and her family.

[Reannan]

The blood on the pillow and the missing teddy bear make it sound like perhaps, someone woke her up as they held a knife to her. It sort of reminds me of the Elizabeth Smart case where she was told to go quietly, so that no one else got hurt. I can see the kidnapper letting her take the teddy bear because there wasn't time to argue with her and/or because there was blood on it. I am praying SO hard that this case ends like the Elizabeth Smart case and Brianna can come home with a survivor story to tell. She was majoring in psychology, so perhaps if it is a stranger, she can use her knowledge and instincts to stay alive. The biggest worry, IMHO, is that nasty boyfriend. Why has he not been located yet??? :confused:

[paddy01]

LE needs to locate that boyfriend ASAP. Boyfriend was from Oregon, not sure what town. I don't think Oregon & Reno NV, are that far from each other. Aunt stated Brianna & boyfriend were in the process of breaking up, he was sending her nasty e-mails. That teddy bear thing, perhaps he bought this item for her.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think it is pretty obvious since the man driving the truck hasn't come forward that he could very well be involved in her disappearance. Surely, they have his name since he was at the party. Someone had to know him!

They should look at the boyfriend, too. They need to investigate the situation anytime there is a breakup scenario.

[murdershewrote]

$100,000 reward being offered

[paddy01]

In news quote, Brianna was sleeping on a couch inches away from an unlocked, glass front door. Anyone looking inside could have seen her. A brown stuffed bear that Brianna's friend had given her to support pillow is missing also. I was thinking, Brianna is only 5' & weighs 98 lb. she's is as small as 12 yr. old, plus sleeping with teddy bear, anyone looking in glass door could possibly mistaken her for a child.

[ella's mom]

I think I missed some information. Where is the information on the Dog not barking and the ex-boyfriend? I missed Nancy Grace and cannot seem to get the KoloTv link to work. Can anyone give me a quick update.

[KR2tonenow]

My first thought is "she's so tiny" anyone could pick her up. I have to search for new information on her...

[KR2tonenow]

Santa Barbara City College Student Brianna Denison Missing in Reno, NV … Man Sought in Disappearance

http://missingexploited.com/picture_library/Brianna_20Denison_small.jpg


Help find Brianna!

[paddy01]

Hi ella's mom, here is the link http://kolotv.com/home/headlines/13957532.html
that's where I read about dog not barking. Oh brother, it's probably the link that you can't get to work.

[paddy01]

Here' another link I found http://krnv.com/global/story.asp?s=7750893
Say's FBI officially involved as of this morning.

[lisag]

Scary... I hope she is found soon!!

[InterestedNHelping]

I can't find out whether the SUV guy had Nevada license plates, or if they were from another state...is the FBI going to tell us? Hopefully they say something soon...the plates should link the registered owner, what is taking so long? The sooner they get the info out, the faster she could be found, one would think.

[Reannan]

Here is a bit more information:

http://tinyurl.com/2vzqbr (http://tinyurl.com/2vzqbr)
"The time frame of her disappearance was about five hours. Her friends in the house couldn't find her at 9 a.m."

"Suspected blood, about the size of a silver dollar, was found on a pillow she was using."

and from this link:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,324568,00.html

"Hunter said there was no sign of a struggle, but they found a blanket Denison was using in the kitchen."

"But the commander of the Reno Police detectives division told FOXNews.com that Denison's boyfriend is not a suspect in the case and he was in Oregon the night she vanished.
"The aunt identified him as a suspect and that is just not true," said Cmdr. Ron Holladay. "He was of course very upset about that. ... At this point, we don’t have any reason to believe that he is a suspect in her disappearance."
The pair were text-messaging the night Denison was last seen, including "just prior to her disappearance," Holladay said.

[murdershewrote]

the blanket in the kitchen is interesting...I mean, if the perp comes in thru the sliding glass door in the bedroom where she is sleeping (with the dog with her), then you would think the perp would just take her back out the sliding glass door, held at knifepoint. I wonder if she was already in the kitchen when the perp came into the house and she dropped the blanket then. Course then I don't see why she would have gone and laid down on the pillow, where the blood was found. The blanket in the kitchen and the blood spot (if it is blood) on the pillow just don't match up...I'm wondering if it is blood, maybe some other kind of stain? Seems if she was cut even a little, on her face, arm, hand, neck, then there would be a lot more than just a small stain. All those body parts bleed like crazy.

[nanandjim]

Dang. I was hoping that she was with the boyfriend. I'm inclined to believe that the guy in his 40's did not return to abduct someone later. The article states that the roommate approached him and asked him for a ride, not vice versa. He didn't come into the house. He could be a businessman, who just hasn't watched the news. I can tell you that my husband would not know that he was being sought by the authorities. He is way too busy and gets home way too late to watch cable news.

I'm wondering if somebody overheard the girls talking and followed one of them home later. This just seems like a crime of opportunity.

I think that Brianna did not scream because this guy had a knife. I think that he cut her neck when she initially struggled (blood evidence on pillow), forcing her to go with him. I think that it doesn't look good for her. :( I hope that I'm wrong.

[paddy01]

the blanket in the kitchen is interesting...I mean, if the perp comes in thru the sliding glass door in the bedroom where she is sleeping (with the dog with her), then you would think the perp would just take her back out the sliding glass door, held at knifepoint. I wonder if she was already in the kitchen when the perp came into the house and she dropped the blanket then. Course then I don't see why she would have gone and laid down on the pillow, where the blood was found. The blanket in the kitchen and the blood spot (if it is blood) on the pillow just don't match up...I'm wondering if it is blood, maybe some other kind of stain? Seems if she was cut even a little, on her face, arm, hand, neck, then there would be a lot more than just a small stain. All those body parts bleed like crazy.

In the link that Reannan posted the roommate had the dog in the bedroom with her and roommate also stated the dog didn't bark. Yeah, and that blanket in the kitchen, this story is getting stranger & stranger. Where is the guy in the SUV, seems LE & FBI would have located him by now!

[olympicprincess]

I'm inclined to believe that the guy in his 40's did not return to abduct someone later. The article states that the roommate approached him and asked him for a ride, not vice versa. He didn't come into the house. He could be a businessman, who just hasn't watched the news. I can tell you that my husband would not know that he was being sought by the authorities. He is way too busy and gets home way too late to watch cable news.

I'm wondering if somebody heard the girls overtalking and followed one of them home later. This just seems like a crime of opportunity.
I can see that. My Dad is very busy with his co. and I can see him giving a girl a ride rather than leave her by herself, and he doesn't follow news like this. (:eek: Can you believe it? ;))

I think the local rapes could be linked here. They are very recent. We had a electrician going around offering better deals here around our local university recently. Turned out he was "scoping out" who lived w/o males, the set-up of the house, etc. He frequently got in through unlocked doors/windows. He has been caught.:clap:

[murdershewrote]

Thanks for the clarification on the dog...I guess my crime-solving approach is usually to take the simplest, most obvious route...a stranger drives the friend home from the casino (dumb idea) and then Brianna goes missing that same night. That's just too much of a coincidence for me, at least at this point, and the fact that the man hasn't come forward only adds more suspicion.

I do think there is more to this story here about the friend just going up to a stranger and asking for a ride...maybe they were talking in the casino previously? My niece is around their ages and there's no way she would go up to a 45 year old stranger. The friend couldn't get a cab in Las Vegas...that is almost laughable, if this wasn't so sad.

[dimples37398]

Here is a video interview with her friend whom she was staying with....K.T. and then the other friend who lived there as well.

You can forward through the video to around 2:50 and then just watch and listen until atleast 3:12.....after watching it again and again, I am sure that they are saying that IAN is the driver of the SUV on surveilance.

http://tiny.cc/5s6yC

The reporter says they are looking for the man driving this vehicle whom gave the girls a ride home after the party. Police have surveilance video of the man, then K.T. says,

yeah thats a good friend of mine IAN he gave us a ride home so we wouldn't have to get a cab or anything, but no he is harmless.

(She kinda seems confused or nervous as she talks about him.)

Then the news person says even while K.T. insisted the person that drove them home was harmless, police say they are still interested in talking to the driver of the SUV.


Kel.....
I am sure they are saying or implying in this video that Ian is the driver of the SUV....yalls opinion......???????

[StillHoping]

I would like to know if any of the girls in the house had a "Boyfriend" stay the night, or if there is a "boyfriend" who generally stays the night. I keep feeling like this is an "inside job", not a stranger abduction.

The dog did not bark, which tells me the dog either didn't hear (unlikely) an intruder, or there was no "intruder" as far as the dog was concerned, meaning that it was a person known to the dog, or someone already in the home. I also agree that it doesn't seem to make sense that blood was found on the pillow, the blanket was found in the kitchen, and the stuffed bear is missing, but Brianna's shoes, purse and cell phone were still there.

I keep feeling like someone hurt/raped Brianna in the home and possibly killed her, and removed the bear with her or her body, because it held evidence, and the blood on the pillow was missed. The blanket in the kitchen doesn't make much sense to me. But I thought if someone did hurt Brianna, maybe she was then taken into the kitchen to clean off some of the blood, but nothing has been reported about blood found on the blanket.

I REALLY hope this beautiful young woman, Brianna is found safe, but I don't feel good about this one at all.

[Reannan]

I saw the name Ian in a printed article, and I can't find the link right now. I will look latter tonight when I get home. I believe that the girls "knew" this guy like you would someone who you see in the clubs all the time. Therefore, he wasn't a total stranger to them. The blanket in the kitchen is very odd and doesn't match the other facts that we know.
Do we know if Brianna smokes, or if she has ever been known to sleep walk? What if Brianna wakes up with a nose bleed and goes into the kitchen, drops the blanket and decides to go outside to smoke a cigarette??? Just wild speculation, but the few facts we have.....and something else that I can't put my finger on.....are strange about this case.

[paddy01]

Here is a video interview with her friend whom she was staying with....K.T. and then the other friend who lived there as well.

You can forward through the video to around 2:50 and then just watch and listen until atleast 3:12.....after watching it again and again, I am sure that they are saying that IAN is the driver of the SUV on surveilance.

http://tiny.cc/5s6yC

The reporter says they are looking for the man driving this vehicle whom gave the girls a ride home after the party. Police have surveilance video of the man, then K.T. says,

yeah thats a good friend of mine IAN he gave us a ride home so we wouldn't have to get a cab or anything, but no he is harmless.

(She kinda seems confused or nervous as she talks about him.)

Then the news person says even while K.T. insisted the person that drove them home was harmless, police say they are still interested in talking to the driver of the SUV.


Kel.....
I am sure they are saying or implying in this video that Ian is the driver of the SUV....yalls opinion......???????

I watched video, Brianna's aunt states in the video that boyfriend was in Reno on friday night but was suppose to leave next day. Did he though?
IMO, they are implying that it is Ian that drove the SUV. K.T states that Ian is a good friend , well if he's such a good friend, wouldn't they have a phone # or know where he lives? Somethings not adding up here, too strange.

[murdershewrote]

could someone clarify for me...did IAN drive just one girl home, or two...and was one of them Brianna or not? I've read different quotes on this. thx

[StillHoping]

I can't verify this, but maybe this will clear up some of the question's about the girls' rides home.

On Insession trials forum, it has been posted that another roomate, Jessica is the one who received a ride home from the stranger in the suburban around 1 AM, and that K.T. and Brianna received a ride home from K.T.'s friend Ian later around 4 AM.

It looks like we are talking about 2 different people here. It would be my guess, that Ian isn't a suspect or POI at this time. They ARE still looking for the driver of the Suburban who gave Jessica a ride home earlier, as they Do NOT know who he is and CAN'T rule him out.

[dimples37398]

That is what I read over at the insession board too but that interview with the 2 friends is very very confusing.

If ya listen to it, definately sounds like they are talking about Ian driving the SUV.......but now I am starting to wonder if maybe they werent talking about him being the one driving......

I don't know but I can't handle another confusing conflicting case with confusing conflicting facts and reports.........Lauterbach case is more than my mind can handle.....lol

Kel

[murdershewrote]

Yup, and it really shouldn't be all that confusing. They should know who was driving what vehicle, who was in the car and who wasn't, what time they left the party/casino, what time they got home, and if they did or did not know either of these men. Course, taking into account that they may have had a few cocktails, but still...

[paddy01]

Hi everybody, my computer went down at 2:PM, wanted to scream! Just got it up and running came right here, playing catch up. It's obvious from the posts I've read that LE hasn't found her. So not much else has happened right, have they talked Ian or whoever was driving the darn SUV?

[teacherbonnie]

I'm afraid to look at that video you're mentioning as I'll probably get more confused!

Here's what I'm thinking right now: A stranger brought Jessica home. He did not come in. It's his vehicle they are looking for. Around 4AM, Ian brought K.T. and Brianna home. At 9AM they realized Brianna was not in the home.

[bnhall]

Police on Dan Abrams. Man who brought friend home and whose truck was in surveillance video came in voluntarily and spoke with police. His whereabouts can be accounted for and he is no longer a suspect.

Info confirms drops of blood on pillow. Purse, two pairs of shoes still at house.

[bnhall]

This leaves no suspects at this time. Police convinced it is an abduction. He hopes that he is wrong.

[paddy01]

I'm afraid to look at that video you're mentioning as I'll probably get more confused!

Here's what I'm thinking right now: A stranger brought Jessica home. He did not come in. It's his vehicle they are looking for. Around 4AM, Ian brought K.T. and Brianna home. At 9AM they realized Brianna was not in the home.

I think you might have it right. I did look at the video that dimples posted
earlier and found out Brianna had a boyfriend that she just broke up and then there is an ex-boyfriend, I think. If you look at the video can you tell me if you heard the same thing? I've been confused since the beginning. LOL

[H0NEYWEST]

Hi, just popping in from Reno. I have no more news than any of you, except to say that I firmly believe this incident is likely connected to the earlier ones.

In November, a 21-year-old UNR student was grabbed and fondled while walking home in the 400 block of College Drive; In December, a 22-year-old student was walking home in the 1400 block of N. Virginia Street, when she was grabbed from behind and "rendered unconscious", she woke up being sexually assualted. These incidents reportedly took place between 3:15 AM and 6 AM. Both locations are within walking distance of 1395 Mackay, where Brianna is missing from. Trying mapping it online - way too close for my hinky meter.

The weird thing is that the press reports these cases are unsolved, then goes on to say that the perp who sexually assualted the second girl drove her home after the inicident. I have my own feeling about how that could happen, but it's not important to the Brianna incident, except that I hope girl #2 gave a good description of her attacker.

The area isn't high crime or anything; mostly apartments (housing students) on Sierra and Virginia, with older, middle-class homes further back from the main streets. I drove right passed Mackay on Friday.

Another observation - I find the Sands really creepy. I can't think of why they would go there instead of some of the nicer (and equally close) casinos, except that it's probably cheaper and I have feeling might be more lax with underage drinking.

[Reannan]

AGHHH!! She is still missing!! I had hoped to come home and find that she was safe and sound. Seems like we now know that "Ian" isn't really "the guy", and that there were "spots" of blood on the pillow. I still have huge questions about the blanket being in the kitchen. This does feel more and more like a complete stranger abduction, huh?

[KR2tonenow]

Hi, just popping in from Reno. I have no more news than any of you, except to say that I firmly believe this incident is likely connected to the earlier ones.

In November, a 21-year-old UNR student was grabbed and fondled while walking home in the 400 block of College Drive; In December, a 22-year-old student was walking home in the 1400 block of N. Virginia Street, when she was grabbed from behind and "rendered unconscious", she woke up being sexually assualted. These incidents reportedly took place between 3:15 AM and 6 AM. Both locations are within walking distance of 1395 Mackay, where Brianna is missing from. Trying mapping it online - way too close for my hinky meter.

The weird thing is that the press reports these cases are unsolved, then goes on to say that the perp who sexually assualted the second girl drove her home after the inicident. I have my own feeling about how that could happen, but it's not important to the Brianna incident, except that I hope girl #2 gave a good description of her attacker.

The area isn't high crime or anything; mostly apartments (housing students) on Sierra and Virginia, with older, middle-class homes further back from the main streets. I drove right passed Mackay on Friday.

Another observation - I find the Sands really creepy. I can't think of why they would go there instead of some of the nicer (and equally close) casinos, except that it's probably cheaper and I have feeling might be more lax with underage drinking.

Hi HW, have there been any descriptions released from these 2 women so that police can try and locate this perp. Even an artist sketch would help!

[H0NEYWEST]

Hi HW, have there been any descriptions released from these 2 women so that police can try and locate this perp. Even an artist sketch would help!

Not that I know of. I didn't even know about the two other incidents until I read about Brianna. We only have one newpaper in town and it doesn't always report crimes, or if it does, it may just be a line or two. I did an online search of the Reno Gazette Journal past stories and couldn't find anything on either of them.

[KR2tonenow]

Not that I know of. I didn't even know about the two other incidents until I read about Brianna. We only have one newpaper in town and it doesn't always report crimes, or if it does, it may just be a line or two. I did an online search of the Reno Gazette Journal past stories and couldn't find anything on either of them.

Well, you were right on top of it. Greta reported with the Commander there in Reno, the 2 other instances, but he stated they are not related as of now.:eek:

That still doen't answer our questions?? What is the description of this perp? He dropped the girl off, unless she was blindfolded, she should know.

Any sexual predator could have noticed the girls come home late, see through the unlocked GLASS doors and quietly take the very "small" Brianna and carry her off.

:confused: Can we contact the PD there and ask for a description of this perp?

[ella's mom]

Here' another link I found http://krnv.com/global/story.asp?s=7750893
Say's FBI officially involved as of this morning.
That one worked Paddy. Thank you!!

[Reannan]

http://tinyurl.com/yvxfw4

At this link, there is a picture of the front of the reisdence Brianna went missing from. The picture was taken yesterday, and I don't understand why there isn't black residue from fingerprint analysis all over that door. There are also some interesting quotes about other break in attempts in nearby homes.

"Vaczi, 30, said strangers have tried to break into their home across the street from where Denison was last seen. She said those incidents were not reported to police. One man ran away after another roommate peered at him through the window blinds after he tried to open their sliding glass door, she said."

Why were those incidents not reported to police? Something is strange about this whole story.

[SeriouslySearching]

This case is very strange. With no POI now or anything to go on...they do need to pursue the rape cases with a sketch if possible. There should be SOME evidence left behind in the three cases to either include or exclude them being connected.

[Reannan]

http://tinyurl.com/3xeeqq

I wasn't sure if this had been clarified or not:

"The vehicle and driver that the Reno Police Department has been seeking in connection with the case of Brianna Denison as a "person and vehicle of interest" have been located, authorities said.
The Reno police said he had no involvement with the disappearance of Denison and no further information regarding the case was obtained from him."

You know, the best thing that could happen right now, would be for her to be found with her hair cut somewhere on a tropical beach, drinking a margarita. She obviously isn't a runaway bride because she wasn't engaged, but I would be really happy to hear that she just didn't want to go back to college and wanted to punish her boyfriend for breaking up with her. Just wishful thinking, I guess.....

[Reannan]

This case is very strange. With no POI now or anything to go on...they do need to pursue the rape cases with a sketch if possible. There should be SOME evidence left behind in the three cases to either include or exclude them being connected.

For some reason, LE seems very adamnant that the previous assault cases are not related. I am not sure both previous cases were rapes, one of the other cases was more of a fondling situation that fortunately did not escalate to rape. Why would LE be so certain the pevious cases are not related? Either they are incompetent, or they know something we don't know.

[jennyjwv]

I wonder if the bf that she was breaking up w/is actually from reno also - like they went to high school together or lived in the same town - if so, maybe he has places in that area he could have taken her? and if he has made it back to oregon hopefully they are checking things out there as well...

[murdershewrote]

so was it IAN that came into the police station?

[SeriouslySearching]

They cleared the boyfriend. He had an airtight alibi as he was text messaging her on the phone shortly before her abduction. (Which means his cell phone placed him in Oregon on the night and time she went missing plus they verified his whereabouts.)

Ian (who has been cleared, too) was the person who gave a ride home to the first girl or group of girls. The 45yo man gave a later ride to a girl in the SUV and was the one who went into the station...and was also cleared.

There are no other POIs in this case right now. They are checking house to house and going to visit sex offenders in the area.

[Rick777]

They cleared the boyfriend. He had an airtight alibi as he was text messaging her on the phone shortly before her abduction. (Which means his cell phone placed him in Oregon on the night and time she went missing plus they verified his whereabouts.)

Ian (who has been cleared, too) was the person who gave a ride home to the first girl or group of girls. The 45yo man gave a later ride to a girl in the SUV and was the one who went into the station...and was also cleared.

There are no other POIs in this case right now. They are checking house to house and going to visit sex offenders in the area.


I thought I heard they still are looking at another ex that lived in the Reno area to see where he was that night.

[paddy01]

I looked up stats regarding sex offenders in Reno, NV there were 317 registered sex offenders in latter part 2007. How big is Reno? Guess I should have looked that up also.

[ThoughtFox]

I came here to read hoping that some of you would know more than they seem to know on the news, but I see everyone is just as confused as I am.

I've been watching reports now for two days, and obviously there are lots of questions. For me, I don't get it that the door was unlocked in an apartment where two girls lived alone. :eek: That is something I preach to my daughter at her dorm, and these girls knew about a predator on campus - so geesh!

Also, why didn't the dog bark at the "intruder"? Or did he, and the roommate was passed out drunk?

Yesterday, I saw the girl's Aunt speaking to Shephard Smith on FoxNews, and he told her she could say anything she wanted. So I was waiting for her to speak into the camera and tell Brianna they would find her, or to beseech the neighbors to come forward, or to talk about suspects, and instead the lady kept saying what a good girl Brianna was, and how she didn't usually drink, blah, blah. :confused:

I was very disappointed that she cared so much about appearances rather than finding her niece. What a wasted opportunity! Then I saw her on TV again today, and she wasn't much better. I just don't understand that. :waitasec:

[StillHoping]

I agree that the way the aunt is handling interviews is a little odd. I was very curious, as to why Brianna's parents were not the ones doing interview's etc. I have only found one mention of Brianna's mother, stating that she is her only surviving parent. But no public pleas for her daughter's release or life, nothing. Maybe she is not dealing well emotionally, but...

It's just a little weird to me.

[Reannan]

There is a LOT that is weird about this case. Does anyone know how they know that the door was unlocked when they went to bed? Is this something they routinely do, or does one of the other girls remember that "Oh yea, we forgot to lock it last night", or are they making this statement because it was unlocked when Brianna was discovered to be missing? For a case that has been declared as an abduction, and for the FBI to have been called in, the quantity and quality of information is terribly inadequate. Why have we not seen pictures of that teddybear? A picture might help jog the public's memory if it was discovered in a trash bin or just about anywhere. :waitasec:

[paddy01]

I was wondering why was this thread was moved to missing/located forum? That implies to me that Brianna has been located? I"m new to WS, so if someone knows why thread was moved, would you please explain this to me.

[StillHoping]

Welcome Paddy. :)

This is actually the Missing/Located area, as in missing and/or located. Many of the cases in this section are still not resolved. Not sure why it was moved here though.

[Reannan]

This is from Foxnews, as they describe it:
This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," January 22, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,324905,00.html

Regarding how they knew the door was unlocked - they routinely left it unlocked!!!! :doh:
"VAN SUSTEREN: Was there any sign of forced entry into the apartment?

HUNTER (Brianna's friend): No, the place she was sleeping was a very common area. And I have three roommates, and we live all our separate lives. So, usually, we sometimes lock it, but that area, since it is a common area and people are always going in and out, we keep it unlocked and just lock our own personal doors. So the door was probably left unlocked."


And regarding whether or not they think there is a connection to the other assaults in the area - IMHO they HAVE to consider a connection:

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, just in an effort to explore, not because I'm suggesting there is a serial assaulter there, but these other two assaults, were they done in the middle of the night?
HOLLADAY (RON HOLLADAY, RENO POLICE DEPT. COMMANDER): One was between 4:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. and the other was, I believe, around the same time frame. So as far as similarities go, the general timeframe would be about the same.
VAN SUSTEREN: How about the distance from where Brianna was spending the night? How far away were these two assaults?
HOLLADAY: I would have to go up there and pace it off, but it is within about two or three blocks, each of the locations.
VAN SUSTEREN: Commander, thank you, and good luck, sir.
HOLLADAY: Thank you very much.

[paddy01]

Welcome Paddy. :)

This is actually the Missing/Located area, as in missing and/or located. Many of the cases in this section are still not resolved. Not sure why it was moved here though.

Hi StillHoping, thanks for pointing that out "missing and/or located". My puter was down for a little bit, then I saw that Brianna had been moved. I thought OMG, they found her, got excited for nothing! Thanks.

[aj1020]

Welcome Paddy. :)

This is actually the Missing/Located area, as in missing and/or located. Many of the cases in this section are still not resolved. Not sure why it was moved here though.

The thread was moved to the missing/located discussion forum, because we are discussion this case now. The original thread is the support forum for supporting the missing and their loved ones.

[murdershewrote]

I can't exclude the possibility that this is another sexual assault, since the others were in such close proximity. But the escalation would be quite pronounced (if it's the same guy)...from groping, to assault then driving the victim home, to kidnapping. That's quite a leap, even for a sexual predator.

I still think there is more to this story than what we now know.

[paddy01]

There is a LOT that is weird about this case. Does anyone know how they know that the door was unlocked when they went to bed? Is this something they routinely do, or does one of the other girls remember that "Oh yea, we forgot to lock it last night", or are they making this statement because it was unlocked when Brianna was discovered to be missing? For a case that has been declared as an abduction, and for the FBI to have been called in, the quantity and quality of information is terribly inadequate. Why have we not seen pictures of that teddybear? A picture might help jog the public's memory if it was discovered in a trash bin or just about anywhere. :waitasec:

I watched the interview with K.T. last night and Greta ask why was the door unlocked? K.T. response was that is a "common area", because there are 4 roommates coming & going at odd hours, they leave that door unlocked :doh: girls only locked their own bedroom doors. I'll bet they sure as h*#l lock that door now!

[murdershewrote]

have their been any organized searches in the area, LE or other groups, looking for her?

[teacherbonnie]

I think I read about a second search with dogs today.

Did anyone read the link in which a woman said something about this being like the Leah Hickman case? I don't know if she meant LE needs to do a more thorough check of the house or what.

[paddy01]

have their been any organized searches in the area, LE or other groups, looking for her?

Hi murdershewrote,
Washoe County Sheriff's Office, searched for about two hours in a three-block area around the Mackay Court residence late Tuesday. Police had already searched the area, including Rancho San Rafael Park on Sunday using dogs, they wanted to search again before the next snowfall. The search revealed no new clues. Police have also gone door to door, interviewing neighbors.

[paddy01]

The Regional Sex Offender Unit are interviewing nearly 100 registered sex offenders reported living within a mile of the Mackay Court residence and with contact more than 1,700 sex offenders registered in Washoe County.

[dr dona]

OK guys- When I think of droplets of blood on a pillow of someone who has been out partying all night, I think of someone with acute alcohol toxicity and the development of pulmonary edema. The person dies in their sleep. What if the friends found Brianna dead in the AM and were afraid they would get in trouble. So, as occurs in some binge drinking in frats they moved the evidence. The blanket fell off on the way out and the kids were so freaked they didn't notice it. The dog didnn't bark because there wasn't an intruder. There are no other clues at the scene because this is a story concocted to CYA. Stranger thinks have happened when alcohol andn college kids are involved???????

[paddy01]

OK guys- When I think of droplets of blood on a pillow of someone who has been out partying all night, I think of someone with acute alcohol toxicity and the development of pulmonary edema. The person dies in their sleep. What if the friends found Brianna dead in the AM and were afraid they would get in trouble. So, as occurs in some binge drinking in frats they moved the evidence. The blanket fell off on the way out and the kids were so freaked they didn't notice it. The dog didnn't bark because there wasn't an intruder. There are no other clues at the scene because this is a story concocted to CYA. Stranger thinks have happened when alcohol andn college kids are involved???????

Hi dr dona, OMG, I can actually see something like that taking place. Kids get scared & come up with idea. Wish I'd have thought of that! I saw this same scenario on a TV program not to long ago, can't remember if it was Law & Order or Cold case.
Makes me want you to phone LE in Reno & give them a run down on your theory. LOL

[dr dona]

Actually I'm a pediatrician and I've had a number of patients overdo the alcohol. Sometimes they get pulmonary edema and sometimes they vomit and aspirate the emesis resulting in death. I also had a patient who overdid the Ambien once. The girl went to sleep so soundly she forgot to breathe . Had to be on a ventilator till the drug wore off. Same thing could have happended to Heath Ledger- If one doesn't put you to sleep, take a handful. Only problem is , you die!!!!! One can never underestimate the stupidity of mankind!!!!

[paddy01]

Actually I'm a pediatrician and I've had a number of patients overdo the alcohol. Sometimes they get pulmonary edema and sometimes they vomit and aspirate the emesis resulting in death. I also had a patient who overdid the Ambien once. The girl went to sleep so soundly she forgot to breathe . Had to be on a ventilator till the drug wore off. Same thing could have happended to Heath Ledger- If one doesn't put you to sleep, take a handful. Only problem is , you die!!!!! One can never underestimate the stupidity of mankind!!!!

Just today on news program stated that Ambien actually suppresses your breathing, that's why you should only take the prescribed dosage. Reporter was speaking about the death of Heath Ledger, that he probably overdosed on Ambien.

[Reannan]

Just got through watching Greta about this case. Two interesting points. The dogs that have been brought in (twice, I believe) have found NO evidence of Brianna outside. WTF??? If she were abducted and carried outside, wouldn't there still be some sort of evidence for the dogs to follow? Especially, if there was blood. This doesn't make any sense to me at all. Mark Furman was on Greta, and he went into the residence. The initeresting thing he said was something along the lines of "There was a bit more partying that night than they were previously led to believe". Furman also used the word "odd" with this case. I truly hope it is not an abduction. If it isn't, then we are left with two choices; 1. Brianna is a runaway college student - possibly punishing a boyfriend. This could be done with or without the help of friends. 2. Brianna OD's on alcohol or something, and as Dr. dona postulated - the friends covered up the evidence. Neither scenario explains why the dogs find nothing, nada, zilch, outside of the home. How experienced and reliable are these dogs???

[KR2tonenow]

Actually I'm a pediatrician and I've had a number of patients overdo the alcohol. Sometimes they get pulmonary edema and sometimes they vomit and aspirate the emesis resulting in death. I also had a patient who overdid the Ambien once. The girl went to sleep so soundly she forgot to breathe . Had to be on a ventilator till the drug wore off. Same thing could have happended to Heath Ledger- If one doesn't put you to sleep, take a handful. Only problem is , you die!!!!! One can never underestimate the stupidity of mankind!!!!

Very true. Those sleep medications have to be taken as perscribed. Not to be taken like candy!! There was a whole lot of partying going on, per Greta tonite at the end of her broadcast, so....maybe more is being released. But I still would like to see a sketch of the perp who has been sexually violating woman in the area, where Brianna was least seen.

[SieSie]

OK guys- When I think of droplets of blood on a pillow of someone who has been out partying all night, I think of someone with acute alcohol toxicity and the development of pulmonary edema. The person dies in their sleep. What if the friends found Brianna dead in the AM and were afraid they would get in trouble. So, as occurs in some binge drinking in frats they moved the evidence. The blanket fell off on the way out and the kids were so freaked they didn't notice it. The dog didnn't bark because there wasn't an intruder. There are no other clues at the scene because this is a story concocted to CYA. Stranger thinks have happened when alcohol andn college kids are involved???????
I could see this as a possibility, very good theory! :clap: :clap: The dog not barking has me curious, too.

It's actually happening on my soaps right now (Days of our Lives) - this guy died at the girls frat house accidentally, but they know they'd get in trouble for drugging him (he was a serial rapist and they were trying to get back at him and he accidenally fell and hit his head - they didn't mean to kill him). Anyway, the frat girls on the soap have covered it up and that's the big storyline right now is whether they should come forward to the police because of all the suspicions. Interesting storyline it's created - seeing the dilemma where some of the girls want to come clean and others don't, and all the repercussions they could face. I know it's just a soap, but it IS a possibility and one that should be considered. JMO

[KR2tonenow]

I watched the interview with K.T. last night and Greta ask why was the door unlocked? K.T. response was that is a "common area", because there are 4 roommates coming & going at odd hours, they leave that door unlocked :doh: girls only locked their own bedroom doors. I'll bet they sure as h*#l lock that door now!

I found it strange that KT locked her door, but let the front door unlocked.
Are they sure about this older guy that already talked to police?

Was his albi airtight, somehow he doesn't sit well with me, too convenient for him to come back and abduct her.:mad:

[KR2tonenow]

http://tinyurl.com/yvxfw4

At this link, there is a picture of the front of the reisdence Brianna went missing from. The picture was taken yesterday, and I don't understand why there isn't black residue from fingerprint analysis all over that door. There are also some interesting quotes about other break in attempts in nearby homes.

"Vaczi, 30, said strangers have tried to break into their home across the street from where Denison was last seen. She said those incidents were not reported to police. One man ran away after another roommate peered at him through the window blinds after he tried to open their sliding glass door, she said."

Why were those incidents not reported to police? Something is strange about this whole story.

OK, when did this happen, could Vaczi ID a perp in a line up? Obviously, there is something going on with a predator around there!!

[SuziQ]

OK guys- When I think of droplets of blood on a pillow of someone who has been out partying all night, I think of someone with acute alcohol toxicity and the development of pulmonary edema. The person dies in their sleep. What if the friends found Brianna dead in the AM and were afraid they would get in trouble.

I was just about to post the same theory. The dog not barking and the fluid like blood substance is what got me thinking of OD. We had a girl and her BF dump her best friend in the woods because of a heroin overdose. The judge handed down a stiff sentence.

[ThoughtFox]

I watched the interview with K.T. last night and Greta ask why was the door unlocked? K.T. response was that is a "common area", because there are 4 roommates coming & going at odd hours, they leave that door unlocked :doh: girls only locked their own bedroom doors. I'll bet they sure as h*#l lock that door now!

And that didn't help Brianna because she slept on the couch in the living room! :(

There was a robbery in one of the dorms where my daughter lives. The girl had left her door unlocked, and someone just walked in, but not only that - the bedroom door was unlocked, and they were able to go in and steal her laptop. And think about this - that person could have been lurking there when she came back from class. *shudder* The closets in the dorm are huge and people could hide in there.

I wonder if they've thought that maybe someone was hiding in the house when these girls arrived home, but waited till the roommate went to bed?

Dogs:
We don't know what sort of dogs have been there, do we? If cadaver dogs are not picking up her scent, then that's good news possibly because it would mean she is alive. If bloodhounds are there, it makes no sense because she lived there and her scent would be inside and outside. So I don't understand that. :waitasec:

If she died in the house and was taken away in a car, then her scent would still be there - and dogs could follow it down the street. So I'm puzzled.

[KansasCutie]

I keep wondering why KT locked her door that night....for some reason to me that just sounds odd. With no one else in her house besides Brianna...

My apartment is like that...with your own individual locks on each door and your own bathroom....me & my roommate always lock our own doors when were going to bed UNLESS we have friends passing out in our living room because theres no other bathrooms besides in our rooms...so we leave our doors unlocked so they can use the bathroom if needed.

so i wonder why she locked it.

[dimples37398]

Yeah I have to admit when thinking about it yesterday, I was wondering about something happening and the girls getting scared and covering up whatever happened.

First thing I don't know any college girls that go to bed at 4 am and then get up at 9 am to cook breakfast after being out running around and dancing the night before. I just can't seen these girls admitting to Briana drinking since she isn't legal age. Maybe someone got the alcohol for them, and told them they better not say anything.

I don't know alot about ecstacy, or any of the other popular teen drugs, but what if she did drink too much or something to that affect, she quit breathing and the girls tried to get her breathing again, causing the mucous, blood and saliva on the pillow.

I don't understand the blanket on the floor in the kitchen.....unless just maybe she was throwing up/unconsious and the girls tried to help her to the kitchen sink...dropping the blanket

I definately think there is more to this than meets the eye. The girls do seem nervous and scared. How do we know she even went back there at all that evening? The girl Kt does seem to be feeling some guilty feelings or something...(which could be of course to it being her house and her leaving the door unlocked) but it also could be something more.

If they do know anything, I don't think it would take more than 10 mins for police to get something out of one of the girls. Especially asking them seperately.

[MeoW333]

"She was sleeping on a couch inches away from an unlocked, glass front door. Anyone looking inside could have seen her."
For the life of me, i cannot understand why these girls would not lock there door with rapes reported in the area. I would never even fall asleep if i were visible to the outside clearly like that, let alone with a door unlocked??!!
If KT was in an alcohol induced sleep, she may not have woken up if the dog was barking; and the dog was confined in her bedroom with her.

Does LE know for a fact that the blood on the pillow is Brianna's? Can LE do an analysis and compare it with her mother's dna? If the dogs didn't pick up her scent, maybe she wasn't there at all. A quarter sized drop of blood is not a lot and could be anyone's.
There are a few different scenarios that i would guess could have happened:
1. The local rapist or a predator saw her (being an easy target visible through the door) and had stalked the area so knew the door was left unlocked, just waiting for an oppurtunity.
2. Someone at the concert/events they attended the night before followed them back.
3. These girls got involved in something over their heads and are afraid to talk. Overdose, or other illegal activities.

[Pharlap]

My question is why was it unlocked?
Or did the person giggle it open some how or using a credit card, then left it unlocked?

[kgeaux]

OK guys- When I think of droplets of blood on a pillow of someone who has been out partying all night, I think of someone with acute alcohol toxicity and the development of pulmonary edema. The person dies in their sleep. What if the friends found Brianna dead in the AM and were afraid they would get in trouble. So, as occurs in some binge drinking in frats they moved the evidence. The blanket fell off on the way out and the kids were so freaked they didn't notice it. The dog didnn't bark because there wasn't an intruder. There are no other clues at the scene because this is a story concocted to CYA. Stranger thinks have happened when alcohol andn college kids are involved???????


You know what? I was feeling all guilty last night when I watched the friend's interview on Greta.........her body language was some of the strangest I think I've ever seen. I kept thinking "cover up, cover up, cover up" and then feeling horrible for even THINKING that.

I can totally see your scenario occuring. I really can.

Also, my hinky meter was dinging quite a bit when the friend was describing waking up at 9AM, not seeing Brianna on the couch and immediately panicking and running upstairs to bang on the other doors to see if Brianna had gone to sleep in one of the other roommates' beds. When Brianna is not in the rooms, she calls Brianna's family to say she's missing. There's something odd about that to me. She didn't mention calling other friends to see if they'd come to pick her up, she doesn't mention trying to reach Brianna on her cell....she just wakes up, panics, does a cursory search of the apartment and jumps to the conclusion that Brianna was missing.

[ThoughtFox]

It sounds to me as if the friend couldn't remember where Brianna was, or why she was gone. She probably had a hangover or mental confusion.

It's hard to see this girl waking up a 9 a.m. too. Most teenagers would sleep till noon or beyond if they had been out partying the night before. But some of them may have had to go to work that day, perhaps?

Article with numbers to call - also states that the FBI has been called in:
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080124/NEWS01/801240347/1016/NEWS

Candlelight Vigil Tonight
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080124/NEWS01/801240348/1016/NEWS

Loved ones vow to keep hope alive

VIGIL details

19-year-old Santa Barbara City College student Brianna Denison will conduct a vigil at 7 p.m. today at Reno High School, 395 Booth St. Denison was last seen early Sunday morning at a home at 1395 MacKay Court.
Friends ask that people wear blue, Denison's favorite color.


Newest Article Today:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hA_DEEClMpRwsFr29Un8v3z-yCtwD8UC8T1O0

"Basically, Brianna has disappeared. She has fallen off the face of the Earth," said Adam Garcia, campus police chief at the University of Nevada, Reno.

"From our perspective, we don't have any credible leads in which to follow up at this point," he told a Reno radio station Wednesday night.

[SuziQ]

I admit I came into this thread much later than most of you. I need to go back, read and catch up. But do we know that Brianna ever came back to the house at all?

[Reannan]

This case is driving me nuts because basic information is sketchy and elusive. Here are points that I am still confused about:

What we know:
The house was home to four people
- two guys who lived upstairs and who were out of state that night.
- Two girls; KT Hunter and Melissa (per interview on Greta with Mark Fuhrman)??.

Brianna, KT, and Jessica Deal went out partying that night.
1. Jessica decided to "call it a night" per the interview with Greta, and she got a ride 'home' with a stranger in the parking lot. The news reports make it sound like Jessica came back to the house Brianna went missing from, but she didn't live there, correct? The link here, makes this statement:

"The friend (Jessica) arrived home around 2 a.m., about two hours before Denison and her friend got there." http://tinyurl.com/2w6aje

This statement is also in the posted link:

"Her friend, K.T. Hunter, 19, went to sleep in her bedroom with her dog and locked her door. Denison was sleeping right outside her door. Hunter and the other roommate who was sleeping upstairs said they did not hear any disturbances." (bold emphasis added by me)

So KT and Brianna got a ride home around 4:00 am with the 45 year old guy - who I assume was "Ian"???

If you listen to the Mark Fuhrman interview on Greta where he visits the crime scene, he plainly states that the only other person home that night was KT, so why was ir reported that "the other roomate was sleeping upstairs"? So what happened to Jessica? Where was Melissa that night??

I think this story is starting to fall apart, but it could just be because of confusion due to poor quality information and reporting. I have spent too much time this morning looking back over news articles trying to determine who came home first, who they came home with, how did Brianna get home, and who was actually present in the home at 9:00 am when Brianna was first determined to be missing? Does anyone else have a clearer picture of this, or is it just me??

[Reannan]

I admit I came into this thread much later than most of you. I need to go back, read and catch up. But do we know that Brianna ever came back to the house at all?

SuziQ, sometimes you scare me!!!! Great minds think alike and all.... :crazy: :blowkiss:

[SuziQ]

SuziQ, sometimes you scare me!!!! Great minds think alike and all.... :crazy: :blowkiss:

Reannan, we must be twins seperated at birth! I just watched a video of (Kasey?) talking to a reporter. She states the guy who gave the ride home was a good friend and harmless. I get the impression that he was someone who didn't know them at all right? Did they know this guy or not?

http://tiny.cc/5s6yC

I think I figured it out. The KT is talking about the guy who gave her and Brianna a ride home and Jessica got a ride with a stranger, who has since been ruled out?

[dimples37398]

Has anyone seen the video with mark furhman???? Did yall see how close KT's door was to the couch??.....It was no more than 12 inches from the end of the right side of the couch.

Also I read an article today that said the police didn't find any footprints or tire prints of interest in the snow outside the doors.

Greta asked Mark Furhman if he could see any obvious evidence of foot prints or anything that he seen????? He said that K9 were all over the neighborhood, and they didn't pick up anything, so there is no way for him to see anything if K9 couldnt even pick a scent up.

Also police have said that this case doesn't match the MO of the other assaults at all.

Also (per:Mark Furhman) there was alot more partying there than they originally thought, and alot less coherance than they originally thought.

I find it strange with the interview with jessica and kt at the end when greta is talking to jessica, she says yeah the campus security has told us since those last assaults, to not walk anywhere alone, always walk with a buddy, etc..etc..etc... but she never mentions them telling the students there to lock their doors?????????????

Kel

[SuziQ]

Mark Fuhrman analyzes missing Nevada coed crime scene
http://tinyurl.com/2ty7ko

[ella's mom]

I admit I came into this thread much later than most of you. I need to go back, read and catch up. But do we know that Brianna ever came back to the house at all?

That is an excellent point. Good thinking.

I think the pillow and her clothes being there though, kind of give the impression that she did make it home. I believe they have talked to the person that gave them a ride home (Ian I think). I wonder if he gave a description of what she was last wearing. If I remember correctly, a skirt, blouse and two pair of shoes were left at the house along with her purse and cell phone. (of course putting her belongings in the house could be part of a cover up).

I have to imagine they are testing the blood on the pillow to see if it is in fact hers and testing it for alcohol or drugs.

I wish we knew more about what Greta and Fuhrman were saying about more partying than we were led to believe.

[dimples37398]

I do agree this case or their story rather is starting to fall apart.....

I am hoping behind the scenes that LE has more than they are releasing at the moment. Either the friend is completely lying and Bri didn't come back at all to the Apt that night, or she came back and their was alot more partying going on then they would like everyone to believe.

If you watch that video with greta and furhman....KT's door was so close to the couch, I am really really questioning how someone wouldn't have heard something. At first when the story broke.....I was thinking her bedroom must have been upstairs and that would explain her not hearing anything.

After seeing that though something is not right. Did someone slip something in her drink at the concert and on the way home something happened? They didnt even take her back to the house? They staged the abduction scene????....Definately don't think this case is going to end up as most people think it will.

Kel

[SuziQ]

by Greta Van Susteren
Good Morning….I got a late night call from OTR Producer Tim Silfies (after our show last night…)..apparently the Reno police did not like our video of the scene where now missing college coed Brianna Dennison was last seen….I am not sure I understand…if the police did not want us to video it, 1/they should have taped it off with yellow tape (and not returned it to the leaseholder KT)….that would have been an easy thing to do……or 2/ told KT not to show us (that would have been easy) ….or 3/ even told us…we are good citizens and would consider the request….(more at link)

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2008/01/24/thursday-note-3/

[SuziQ]

KT has stated that Brianna was sober. Now it appears that's not truthfull.

[SuziQ]

I think the pillow and her clothes being there though, kind of give the impression that she did make it home.

And the missing teddy bear is probably because it has evidence on it. What kidnapper is going to think to take THAT along?

[paddy01]

BTW, on Greta last night when K.T. was showing the condo, Greta ask who lives there beside you K.T., her response was 4 of us, 2 girls & 2 guys, did anybody else catch that? I was under the impression from the beginning that it was 4 girls. IMO, I think dr. dona hit it right on the head.

[dimples37398]

Thanks Suzi for posting that link.....

Kel

[paddy01]

I posted yesterday about search dogs not finding any clues after searching a 3 block area around house. I found that really strange that Brianna's scent was not picked up by one of these dogs, which believes me to think she was definitely carried out of house.

[Reannan]

I really wish someone with true experience involving search dogs would join this group. How could the dogs not have picked up on a scent at all?? If she had stayed there during the previous day, she would have walked out and gone to the party they went to. Why do the dogs not pick up on the scent of her leaving to go out that night with her friends??? I am confused. :waitasec:

[SuziQ]

I really wish someone with true experience involving search dogs would join this group. How could the dogs not have picked up on a scent at all?? If she had stayed there during the previous day, she would have walked out and gone to the party they went to. Why do the dogs not pick up on the scent of her leaving to go out that night with her friends??? I am confused. :waitasec:

Hey, Randy Mucha is a member here. He is the LE search dog guy inadvertently caught up in the Stacy Peterson case. I haven't seen him around lately. He has a website, I'll see if I can email him and ask him to come here.

[ella's mom]

And the missing teddy bear is probably because it has evidence on it. What kidnapper is going to think to take THAT along?
I wonder what the point of the teddy bear is at all. If this is something that happened in the home and there is a possible cover up, what would the point be to tell LE about a teddy bear?

None of this is making sense to me.

[SuziQ]

I know Ella, it is strange.

Below is a link to Info about Randy Mucha and his search dogs if anyone hasn't seen it before. I just sent him an email asking him to come here.

http://www.ilpwda.com/marlo.htm

[StillHoping]

I'd like to know if the search dogs even hit on the couch that Brianna was supposedly sleeping on. If they didn't find her scent there, the whole story is a lie and K.T. and Jessica need to start talking. But as you can see from my first post on this thread, back on page 1, I have thought "Inside Job" here from the get go. Hate to feel that way, but it just makes the most sense.

[murdershewrote]

In viewing GVS video last night, KT stated that nobody else was in the house but her and Brianna that night...both guys were in Oakland (I think that's what she said) and the other female roommate wasn't there that night. So who was the other girl that was given a ride? Her story isn't holding up too well.

Another thing that bothered me...KT said the first thing she did when she noticed Brianna was "missing" (her words) was to call Brianna's mom. That's the last thing I would have done. It was 9 am, she could have been alot of places, Brianna could have gone out for coffee, could have been taking a walk to clear her head after partying all night...why upset the mother right away, and then call 911. Seemed very premature to me...like she knew she was MISSING.

Another thing...MF says that there was alot more partying going on than we were originally led to believe, which is what I have thought all along.

question...it is possible that Brianna could have had a nose bleed from something she had...ah, shall I say, injested that night. I don't want to cast a bad light on the victim here, but I think all possibilities need to be looked at...esp since MF confirmed my thoughts that alot more partying was going on than we were led to believe. Is it possible she could have died of an overdose? Again, I am not trying to trash the victim here at all...I just want to think outside the box because this story isn't adding up to me.

Did Brianna have her car there that weekend...how did she get from Santa Barbara to Reno...anybody know?

[SuziQ]

I could be wrong as I'm still catching up on this case. But IIRC, Mark F stated in the video I linked, that there were no hits outside the home. Does that mean that there were hits inside?

Good question StillHoping.

[SuziQ]

Murdershewrote, IIRC, KT states Brianna's car was in the shop. I haven't heard anything about how she got to Reno from Santa Barbara.

[aj1020]

LionRun is another excellent resource for search dog questions, I believe she used to or still does train these dogs in some capacity.

[SuziQ]

LionRun is another excellent resource for search dog questions, I believe she used to or still does train these dogs in some capacity.

Can you PM her for us? Randy, understandibly, may be laying low these days.

[aj1020]

Sure, will do.

[KansasCutie]

KT gives me a weird vibe. I think she knows alot more. I really dont think this is a stranger abduction case. She doesnt seem sad & worried about her friend..she seems worried about getting caught. She looks like shes trying really hard to cry. If i was her in position and my friend had truly gone missing id be crying hysterically in that interview. Idk maybe people react differently to situations, but theres something odd about her.

[murdershewrote]

I agree...I'm getting the impression that this house might have been "party central" with her admitting that lots of people come and go there all the time. Which isn't necessarily unusual for college kids.

I've asked this before...but has anybody organized a search for Brianna. Usually in these cases, a search would have been done by now, I find that very strange. At a minimum,somebody could find the teddy bear if it was tossed somewhere.

Also, no one has been interviewed in the media from the college she goes to in Santa Barbara...does she have a roommate there?

[kgeaux]

I really wish someone with true experience involving search dogs would join this group. How could the dogs not have picked up on a scent at all?? If she had stayed there during the previous day, she would have walked out and gone to the party they went to. Why do the dogs not pick up on the scent of her leaving to go out that night with her friends??? I am confused. :waitasec:


The search dogs involved in the search for Jessica Lunsford couldn't find her and she was right across the street from her home! I appreciate the work search dogs and their trainers do, but these animals have "off" days or something. The fact that they didn't track her outside doesn't mean she didn't exit the apartment in some fashion.

[paddy01]

This case is driving me nuts because basic information is sketchy and elusive. Here are points that I am still confused about:

What we know:
The house was home to four people
- two guys who lived upstairs and who were out of state that night.
- Two girls; KT Hunter and Melissa (per interview on Greta with Mark Fuhrman)??.

Brianna, KT, and Jessica Deal went out partying that night.
1. Jessica decided to "call it a night" per the interview with Greta, and she got a ride 'home' with a stranger in the parking lot. The news reports make it sound like Jessica came back to the house Brianna went missing from, but she didn't live there, correct? The link here, makes this statement:

"The friend (Jessica) arrived home around 2 a.m., about two hours before Denison and her friend got there." http://tinyurl.com/2w6aje

This statement is also in the posted link:

"Her friend, K.T. Hunter, 19, went to sleep in her bedroom with her dog and locked her door. Denison was sleeping right outside her door. Hunter and the other roommate who was sleeping upstairs said they did not hear any disturbances." (bold emphasis added by me)

So KT and Brianna got a ride home around 4:00 am with the 45 year old guy - who I assume was "Ian"???

If you listen to the Mark Fuhrman interview on Greta where he visits the crime scene, he plainly states that the only other person home that night was KT, so why was ir reported that "the other roomate was sleeping upstairs"? So what happened to Jessica? Where was Melissa that night??

I think this story is starting to fall apart, but it could just be because of confusion due to poor quality information and reporting. I have spent too much time this morning looking back over news articles trying to determine who came home first, who they came home with, how did Brianna get home, and who was actually present in the home at 9:00 am when Brianna was first determined to be missing? Does anyone else have a clearer picture of this, or is it just me??

I distinctly remember during last nights interview K.T. stating Brianna went to sleep on couch, because my friend was passed out in in here as she pointed to her bed, then she changed it real quick to asleep in this bed.
Did anyone else hear this?

[aj1020]

I distinctly remember during last nights interview K.T. stating Brianna went to sleep on couch, because my friend was passed out in in here as she pointed to her bed, then she changed it real quick to asleep in this bed.
Did anyone else hear this?

I can only speak for myself but when I was in college, passed out = being asleep, no matter the time of day. Usually when we think of someone "passing out" it's due to losing consciousness and falling asleep from being intoxicated. But in college, if someone was taking a nap in the afternoon (completely sober), we'd still say something like "oh Jane is passed out in bed for a while, she'll be up later". Basically being passed out doesn't necessarily equal a completely drunken state. So even though the friend was "passed out" in bed, they could have been drunk, but not necessarily near an alcohol poisoning state.

Sorry this is long and rambling, I'm just meaning don't read too much into a 19 year old's choice in language, it could mean anything. :)

[paddy01]

I can only speak for myself but when I was in college, passed out = being asleep, no matter the time of day. Usually when we think of someone "passing out" it's due to losing consciousness and falling asleep from being intoxicated. But in college, if someone was taking a nap in the afternoon (completely sober), we'd still say something like "oh Jane is passed out in bed for a while, she'll be up later". Basically being passed out doesn't necessarily equal a completely drunken state. So even though the friend was "passed out" in bed, they could have been drunk, but not necessarily near an alcohol poisoning state.

Sorry this is long and rambling, I'm just meaning don't read too much into a 19 year old's choice in language, it could mean anything. :)

Hi aj1020, I probably wouldn't have thought anything about it had K.T. not made a point of clarifying so quickly. Just found it odd, but thanks.

[murdershewrote]

it could mean either way...passed out drunk or passed out (sleeping), but whatever...it still indicates to me that somebody else was in the house, in the bedroom, that was not a roommate. It was "her friend", not saying male or female. So when did this person arrive there?

[philamena]

There is something very sinister about Brianna's disappearance imo. Tuesday night I heard one of her roomates during an interview she did with Greta. Something that struck me as odd was the fact that the people who lived in that house only locked their bedroom doors---not the main door. That makes no sense to me, especially since others had recently been attacked near the home.

Why was Brianna sleeping in the unlocked, opened area of the house?

IMO she was hurt before she was ever removed from where she was last seen sleeping. I hope my gut feelings are wrong.
Prayers to you Brianna.

[nanandjim]

The search dogs involved in the search for Jessica Lunsford couldn't find her and she was right across the street from her home! I appreciate the work search dogs and their trainers do, but these animals have "off" days or something. The fact that they didn't track her outside doesn't mean she didn't exit the apartment in some fashion.
Could it be because Jessica was carried, too?

[Reannan]

We know that Brianna was alive and near her cell phone at 4:15 am because that is when she sent the last text message....which I believe LE is now very interested in investigating. Can't they use pings to get a pretty good idea where the cell phone was at 4:15??? It would be an assumption to make that Brianna was the one actually sending the text messages, but logic would tell you to assume this, until evidence suggest that someone else was using her phone. I know this is rambling also, and you have my apologizes. This whole case feels like a rambling mess. The fact that no one has organized a search party IS very interesting. Why haven't they???

[murdershewrote]

her cell phone was found in the house...I thought I heard reported that her last call was to a bf or ex-bf. but that person definitely would probably be able to tell LE what frame of mind she was in, was she intoxicated, was she complaining about anything that happened that night, etc.

[paddy01]

We know that Brianna was alive and near her cell phone at 4:15 am because that is when she sent the last text message....which I believe LE is now very interested in investigating. Can't they use pings to get a pretty good idea where the cell phone was at 4:15??? It would be an assumption to make that Brianna was the one actually sending the text messages, but logic would tell you to assume this, until evidence suggest that someone else was using her phone. I know this is rambling also, and you have my apologizes. This whole case feels like a rambling mess. The fact that no one has organized a search party IS very interesting. Why haven't they???

Thanks for reminding me about the cell phone, it never occured to me that it might not have Brianna doing the texting, good point. This case is so confusing it's getting hard to remember everything! I'm going to start recording GVS show, so I can refresh my memory.

[murdershewrote]

from Fox News website...

Police searching for a missing college student said Thursday they plan to interview about 100 registered sex offenders who live within a mile of the home where she vanished five days ago.
Reno police spokesman Steve Frady said the questioning was a routine part of the investigation. Brianna Denison, 19, was last seen sleeping on a couch at a friend's house near the University of Nevada, Reno campus.
"It's something that's done in cases like this," Frady said.
All of the more than 1,700 registered sex offenders in Washoe County around Reno will be contacted as part of the investigation, he added.

100 sex offenders within a mile...yikes!

[Reannan]

from Fox News website...
100 sex offenders within a mile...yikes!


And the doors were frequently left unlocked! :eek: Where does an awareness of safety need to be taught? Maybe those of us on this site and others like it have a skewed perception of the world, but I think we are skewed in the right direction!!! I check and double check my doors at night.

[murdershewrote]

Boy,me too. I am totally OCD when it comes to locking doors. I can't imagine a young girl sleeping on a couch with an unlocked door only a foot away from her.

[dimples37398]

This message is posted from Find Bri facebook site. Read this message and during this where was KT at? KT does have a myspace page but it is private, unless one of yall myspace experts can find a cache of it to see who is on her friends list that match's this description.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=22950712008



Jason Dorfman (http://sbcc.facebook.com/s.php?k=100000080&id=201303434) (Santa Barbara City) wrote
at 1:14am yesterday
ATTENTION!:

I was with Bri Saturday night right before she went missing. The last time i saw her was around 3am when she came with a guy to my hotel room at the sands to pick up her sweater that she left in my room earlier in the night. We did not think anything of it at the time and he did not say a word to us. He was about 5'7, white, with longish brown hair. I assumed it was one of her friends from reno and they did not appear romantically involved with each other. I spoke with the police already so hopefully they can find them walking out on the casino cameras. She went missing at 4 so it may be possible that this guy came into K.T's with her, or came back shortly after. If anyone can fill in the missing pieces contact the police!

[Reannan]

Very interesting Dimples! Now, I feel that we are getting somewhere. The thing is, LE has to have this information already, and they have to be coming up with some of the same questions we have. Things just don't add up, and they don't make sense. I don't think it will take too much longer to figure this case out, however.

[KansasCutie]

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb160/CheerQT_04/Picture2.png

Maybe thats why the dog didnt bark because it was in her room & whatever happened in the living room was extremely quiet?

I also read that KT gave her that bear. Did she give it to that specific night to sleep with or gave it to her like awhile ago as a present or something??

[paddy01]

Boy,me too. I am totally OCD when it comes to locking doors. I can't imagine a young girl sleeping on a couch with an unlocked door only a foot away from her.

Me too! And when my husbands away I put sticks in my windows. You can never be too careful. Sounds like I got a little more than OCD, going on there. LOL

[murdershewrote]

I think Mark Fuhrman is suppose to be on Greta tonight to continue his commentary on this case...starting with his comment last night about their being more partying going on than first revealed. I mean, he can't keep us hanging on that one!

I do think he's interviewed people at the Sands who saw these girls and possibly their other friends who were there that night...and they have told him what they saw.

I find it interesting that the guy who saw her at 3 pm, with this new mystery friend, didn't mention if they appeared drunk or not. His comments seemed rather sanitized to me, for a guy his age.

[dimples37398]

wow.....look at some of these photos posted from her facebook find bri group....amazing some people post photos like this and she is how old in these pics??? I don't believe for one second now that they werent drinking that night.

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/iceman21740/7.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/iceman21740/6.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/iceman21740/5.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/iceman21740/4.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/iceman21740/3.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/iceman21740/2.jpg

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg111/iceman21740/1.jpg

[dimples37398]

Oh yeah and there are alot more photos just like this there, I just took the ones that were obvious what they were drinking. There are a couple of some pretty provocative for her age photos. What in the world were these young girls thinking????????? The only thing I can come up with is they werent thinking at all or they were putting themselves in positions where they werent able to think rationally....

Kel

[KansasCutie]

To be honest...those pics arent that crazy. They look exactly like mine & every college girl on my facebooks pictures also.

[olympicprincess]

As for the 9am thing: I tend to wake up early after a late night of drinking (usually go back to sleep later). I have gotten up and left a friend's house very early before.

I wonder if KT called Brianna's cell phone before calling her mom? That's the first thing I would do if I couldn't find my friend in my house.

[galvino]

I truly have no clue as to what happened, and my gut does not say these kids are involved w/their friend's disapearance, but I do think they are trying to 'cover up' their own irresponsible behavior that night.

Even though it has been nearly 30 years since I was in college, there are alot of things that haven't changed. I lived in many diff apts and houses with fellow students during my college years, and even tho we had been cautioned and knew better, we were EXTREMELY irresponsible when partying, more interested in being with our friends, getting buzzed, flirting, etc than being concerned about our safety. We thought we were invincible-even if bad things happened to our peeps. We rarely locked doors, had no problem getting rides, partying with 'cute' boys we just met...

I am not now, nor have I ever been stupid or naive, but have certainly made stupid choices when drinking. Heck, even now (after reading WS for the last 5 years) I don't keep my house locked. I know, I know, that IS absolutely irresponsible- (and sometimes I think of neighbors finding me murdered and my pets feeding off of my undiscovered dead body after a few weeks because I live alone!) but my pals and I often laugh about how lucky we were that nothing bad ever happened to us because we were so irresponsible.

Not laughing about it now, because truly, there but for the grace of God...

[SeriouslySearching]

Dimples~ I take it you don't have college age kids. I know for a fact my daughter doesn't drink, but she would be right in the middle of that because most of her friends do. So it doesn't have to mean they were all drinking the night before just because they were out. : )

[Reannan]

Well said Galvino. I admit I have done some stupid things that I would be horrified to find my daughter doing. It seems to be a different world, however. The lines between "safe" and "not safe" places have become blurred. I also don't think the friends of Brianna are covering up for anything besides the partying that was going on that night, but this isn't the time for shinning your halo. This girl is missing, and every single detail needs to be laid out for all to know and see. The public can be of great help if memories are jogged about events that are reported. The posting about Brianna stopping by that guy's apartment to claim a sweater is very important, because from the accounts I have heard up until this point, they were still at the casino at 3:00 am, and would soon be seeking a ride home. What other facts do we not know??

[galvino]

OlympicP-

I'm with ya on the cell phone thing-

But, if I had been up drinking till 4am, I probably wouldn't have gotten up at 9am unless I had to puke, and then I would want to go back to bed (preferably in a more comfy place than she was sleeping). Since there were no curtains on the windows, I would have wanted a dark quiet cubby to go to!I understood she was visiting and did not live there, so I don't think she had another place (like her own house) to go to if she had waked up. Since the blankie was found in the kitchen, and her friend's room (w/the bathroom) was locked, maybe (because she was still drunk) she went outside to throw up, sat down for a minute and got nabbed then??

I am just looking at the house, the pix of the outside (I noticed a spatula laying on the ground and remembered how my party pad usually was-lol) and tried to put myself in that situation

just thinking out loud

[galvino]

SS- I know it doesnt mean they were all drinking, but I just remember something my dad always said..

"Nothing good is going on after midnight"

...and unless I was studying at the Waffle House or library after the witching hour, he was 100% correct!

H*ll, at my age now, the only way I could be doing ANYTHING at 4AM is if I were up to no good! (unless a hot flash woke me up, or the alarm clock malfunctioned)

[galvino]

Reannan-

It IS a different world now, but these kids don't have a frame of reference for that, other than hearing us say "back in my day blah blah blah" and at that point they tune us out like we did our folks. I doubt most kids watch Greta or NG like we do, and still think they are invincible.

I agree that these kids need to quit CYA about their actions that night, and imagine that to police they have b/c of the media attn they are getting- they've got to know they'll get caught lying (except they are kids, so all bets are off about that!)

I think the sweater thing could be impt, too!

[murdershewrote]

one thing bugs me...I think LE gave this guy Ian a pass a little too quickly. What 19 year old girl would call a 45 year old guy a "harmless friend"...no 19 year old that I know would be caught hanging out with a 45 year old man, unless he was doing something for her. I think they need to look into this a little further...he may not be involved in Brianna's disappearance but he might be involved in other things, IMO.

[dimples37398]

No I definately don't have any college age kids, my oldest is 8 years old.

I am not and have never been an angel or innocent by any means, but the legal drinking age is 21, or does that not matter anymore? It seems in most of the photos posted she has a drink in her hand, so I think that says that the probability of her drinking that night was high as well.

I am not naive to the fact that kids like to have fun while in college, but out of those photos posted on the group 85% were partying photos. She is only 19 so how long could she have been in college to be partying that much? Not saying that she doesn't make good decisions but like my dad always told me growing up......

it isn't so much the fact that I am worried about what you will do or the decisions you will make, it is the other people's decisions that you are with at the time. I know it is easier said than done and I won't know for sure what I would do unless a day comes where I had to make a decision....

but I hope that I am strong enough when the day comes to hold my ground with my children when they are in college and underage. As of right now my feelings are if I find out my children or child is drinking too often or while they are underage, while being in college......

A. They will change colleges and come home to live....

B. They choose to not do that, then they won't get any extra spending money from me for sure.

She might be a great girl that just wants to have fun, and truly does make good decisions, but when she puts herself in the situation of being around friends who may not make such great decisions, or they have friends whom she doesn't really know, then the likelyhood of something bad happening goes up alot.

Kel

[galvino]

MurderSW-

I agree to a point- when I was that age, a 45yo would have been like a grandpa, who I would probably laugh at behind his back while considering him harmless... I wonder if maybe he was a friend of someone's dad, or bar owner, or someone who had been longtime friends of someone they knew and trusted, who really was just someone who thought he could get these girls home safely? I worked in a restaurant in college and knew older men who WERE harmless and they DID look out for us kids. I was pretty lucky that they were harmless. I didn't 'hang out' with them, but they would be out and about, and if I needed them to help me out, they would help me. The place they were was not a college hang out, so there is a legit reason that guy would be there.

[SuziQ]

I received an email from Randy. He said he was heading over to this thread. However, I was away from the house for the afternoon and missed him.

Randy, come back!!!

ETA: maybe we could just post some search dog questions for him and he'll respond whenever he makes it here?

Oh and I'll be gone again, son has a school project we need to shop for.

[dimples37398]

Also I was just curious as to what these events were like (swat). It doesn't take much searching at all to see pretty young girls on stages dancing (alot of them with not much clothing at all). Most of them, have the not all there glare in their eyes.

This world is not like it use to be.....date rape drugs, numerous other things for girls to worry about. IMO there are guys probably all over that place, looking for a girl to try and take home or go home with.

The case with Amanda Knox and Meredith, they were roomates, and I am sure nobody thought before that happened that something like that would transpire. Meredith seemed to be a good girl, it was her roomate and roomates friends who ultimately caused her death. They tried to cover it up and say someone came in and killed her, but they thankfully didn't get away with it.

[galvino]

Dimples-

When I was 18, the drinking age was too. In a sense I think that made things easier all around (not that I think it should be changed from 21!).

I can't imagine my parents trying to watch me for 3 yrs longer than they had to- I probably would have amped up my rebellion 10 fold! Because of today's climate, I think it is harder to get a fake ID, so kids are going to do more underhanded things, deal with more unscrupulous people in order to get booze... and they can be crafty as H*ll in the bargain. THe 'flirting' I did to party back in the day was very tame compared to the charged sexual environment we live in today.

I have friends that have girl teenagers now and am AGHAST at what goes on these days with these kids and partying- I swear I must have been a saint!

Good luck in the future with your kids- I can't imagine trying to control the way I was back in the day. The good news is I am a good productive person IN SPITE of my shennanigans! THe fact that, even tho I would hide things from my folks, we always had a dialogue and I felt SAFE with them -no matter what I did -and that helped to steer me away from a life that could have been very scary. Tho parental support and instilling good values on kids can never keep bad people/things away from our kids, those things can help our children get through the bad choices they can make and that is probably the best we can hope for, huh?

Again, "there but for the grace of God..." and all we can do is hope that the odds of bad things happening to our kids are in our favor.

[teacherbonnie]

murdershewrote...Ian brought home KT and Brianna. He is a friend. The 45 year old stranger brought Jessica home and she admits she used poor judgement. LE has cleared both...or so they say.

[Taximom]

Mark Fuhrman spoke a great deal about this case tonight right in the beginning of Greta's show. I didn't listen to the whole thing because I thought you guys would cover it here! Rats. I do remember him saying that everyone BUT the involved indicate there was a lot of partying going on. Which to me meant drugs and alcohol, but I'm not on top of this case, so not totally sure what he meant by that.

[ThoughtFox]

No I definately don't have any college age kids, my oldest is 8 years old.

I am not and have never been an angel or innocent by any means, but the legal drinking age is 21, or does that not matter anymore? It seems in most of the photos posted she has a drink in her hand, so I think that says that the probability of her drinking that night was high as well.

I am not naive to the fact that kids like to have fun while in college, but out of those photos posted on the group 85% were partying photos. She is only 19 so how long could she have been in college to be partying that much? Not saying that she doesn't make good decisions but like my dad always told me growing up......

Kel

I have two college age children. They are ages 20 and nearly 18, and I know they've both had drinks while at parties. Drinking goes on in college dorms even when they do inspections, and even at Christian colleges. But you know what - drinking and drugs were around when I was a kid 30 years ago. Some of my friends who went to the most conservative colleges did every drug and drank everything, while I lived at home and did nothing. Everyone is different, but drinking is a fact of life, and you try to keep communication open because if you express too much negativity these teenagers won't tell you anything, and that's worse than knowing - believe me!

Here in my state, they have to card everyone, but these kids get older friends to buy stuff for them, so they will always find a way around the rules. I'm not condoning it or saying I approve, but you have to be realistic about what is going on. If a kid goes to a sorority or fraternity party, or any party, they are going to drink.

I agree that this 45 year old guy is creepy. He is old enough to be their Dad, but when has that stopped any guy from hitting on a pretty girl? (Think Drew and Stacy Peterson!)

[KansasCutie]

Mark Fuhrman spoke a great deal about this case tonight right in the beginning of Greta's show. I didn't listen to the whole thing because I thought you guys would cover it here! Rats. I do remember him saying that everyone BUT the involved indicate there was a lot of partying going on. Which to me meant drugs and alcohol, but I'm not on top of this case, so not totally sure what he meant by that.

Yeah he said a couple guy friends said Brianna was known for pregaming but none of the girls from the night would say that...thats weird. & most girls who party usually pregame so its not the most shocking thing. But i was confused he said they all got together at KT's house to get ready but Brianna & KT werent ready so Jessica left to go to the concert...then the 2 girls went....and they all met up at the concert then went to a party at the casino and jessica left early...is that right?? How come jessica kept leaving without them? Usually when girls go out together they usually stick together until its time to pass out where everyone splits to go be with their boys...so i wonder why she kept leaving them.

Edit - i just watched it again and figured out Jessica left early from the party because she had to work at 10am so thats probably why the 2 girls woke up at 9am.

[LionRun]

KC, can you describe what the term, "pre-gaming" means? I imagine it may mean something like, "to do some drugs and/or alcohol prior to the main event, like an actual party, concert, or sports event. TIA.

Lion

[KansasCutie]

KC, can you describe what the term, "pre-gaming" means? I imagine it may mean something like, "to do some drugs and/or alcohol prior to the main event, like an actual party, concert, or sports event. TIA.

Lion

Yeah thats exactly what it means.

You all get together somewhere and drink (we usually play some type of card game or beer pong) before you go to the party, concert, basketball game etc. I