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SeriouslySearching
01-24-2008, 07:24 AM
The Marine Corp. is front and center in this case. They are the ones who initially were responsible for the actions of Cesar Laurean, the investigation into the rape allegations, the ones responsible for protecting Maria, and are now protecting Christina Laurean.

Vegas Bride
01-25-2008, 04:05 PM
One of the many things that bother me about this case is the silence from the Marines. I understand there has to be an investigation and all but where is the outrage about what happened to Maria? Maria was a Marine, one of their own and she was brutally murdered and her body incinerated!!
If it was a civilian being charged would we see the outrage then? Is it because the one charged is also a Marine it seems like many just want it to disappear?

VB

SeriouslySearching
01-25-2008, 06:33 PM
I would have to say there has been MORE than a significant lack of outrage shown by the Military at Camp Lejeune. We haven't seen them publically show ANY remorse or regret at their treatment of Maria Lauterbach during the course of her rape investigation and subsequent murder stemming from one of their own, imo.

Are there NO Marines who will speak out FOR Maria? Is this forbidden?

Mygirlsadie
01-26-2008, 05:23 AM
It very well could be forbidden. When all of this came to light 1st sgts. and Co's probably gathered their units up for a formation and told them they are forbidden to talk about it. Higher up's on the base could of sent out the memo to get the word out!! Not to mention they look extremely stupid right now so they are probably trying to lay low.



I would have to say there has been MORE than a significant lack of outrage shown by the Military at Camp Lejeune. We haven't seen them publically show ANY remorse or regret at their treatment of Maria Lauterbach during the course of her rape investigation and subsequent murder stemming from one of their own, imo.

Are there NO Marines who will speak out FOR Maria? Is this forbidden?

Ticamom
01-26-2008, 05:34 AM
It very well could be forbidden. When all of this came to light 1st sgts. and Co's probably gathered their units up for a formation and told them they are forbidden to talk about it. Higher up's on the base could of sent out the memo to get the word out!! Not to mention they look extremely stupid right now so they are probably trying to lay low.



This sounds very plausible. More CYA.

Truly
01-27-2008, 01:06 AM
The Marines charged Maria with Desertion when her mother and uncle showed up in NC to look for her. So far, I have not seen that the Marines have charged Cesar Laurean with either Unauthorized Absence or Desertion.

I think that Cesar and Christina Laurean are being protected by the USMC.

I have not seen one report from any Marine who knew CL in boot camp or in Jacksonville. I think that the people who could shed light on this case are being forced to remain silent, and that the Marine buddies who were at the BBQ will be prevented from speaking to LE.

Does any branch of Law Enforcement in The United States of America have the authority to go after the USMC????

STEADFAST
01-28-2008, 08:28 AM
The Marines charged Maria with Desertion when her mother and uncle showed up in NC to look for her. So far, I have not seen that the Marines have charged Cesar Laurean with either Unauthorized Absence or Desertion.

I think that Cesar and Christina Laurean are being protected by the USMC.

I have not seen one report from any Marine who knew CL in boot camp or in Jacksonville. I think that the people who could shed light on this case are being forced to remain silent, and that the Marine buddies who were at the BBQ will be prevented from speaking to LE.

Does any branch of Law Enforcement in The United States of America have the authority to go after the USMC????

The Marine Corps has no ability to prevent a Marine from speaking with civilian LE about a crime committed off the base. Also, they do not have the discretion to NOT list a Marine as being UA if he is absent without authorization. He has either reported for duty or he is UA; there isn't a gray area.

The Marines also do not have the ability to prevent a civilian spouse or friend of a Marine from speaking to the press about the BBQ. And if you think military wives would allow themselves to be dictated to by the base CO, you don't know military wives! Most likely, anyone who has knowledge of the Laureans' activities post-murder have been asked by civilian LE to not talk about their future testimony to the press.

I can't see any evidence that the Laureans are being protected by the Marines. Cesar is in Mexico, out of the Marines' jurisdiction. And Christina is being held in restriction of some kind on base while the Marines see if she is going to be charged by civilian LE. If not, I believe she will be charged by the military, which is why they are holding on to her.

What possible motive could the Marines have to protect these people? They are involved in the murder of a Marine.

curiositycat
01-28-2008, 02:23 PM
Steadfast, the only motive I can think of is that they botched it big time. My hubby was raised in a military family and his father was at one time a base commander.
Hubby thinks that they goofed up by not notifying the city police department of the restraining order when she and Laurean moved off base. According to hubby they were required to do so and did not.
IMHO I think there is a big degree of ignoring women's complaints in all branches of the military. I personally know a woman who is a pychologist for the VA. She said that she is having a hard time herself dealing with all the women she now counsels who have been raped by our own military. She claims it's something the government tries to cover up. She says that some of these women will never be "normal" again. It's supposedly one of the best kept secrets in the military.

STEADFAST
01-28-2008, 02:43 PM
Steadfast, the only motive I can think of is that they botched it big time. My hubby was raised in a military family and his father was at one time a base commander.
Hubby thinks that they goofed up by not notifying the city police department of the restraining order when she and Laurean moved off base. According to hubby they were required to do so and did not.
IMHO I think there is a big degree of ignoring women's complaints in all branches of the military. I personally know a woman who is a pychologist for the VA. She said that she is having a hard time herself dealing with all the women she now counsels who have been raped by our own military. She claims it's something the government tries to cover up. She says that some of these women will never be "normal" again. It's supposedly one of the best kept secrets in the military.

I agree with you about the problems with the military in general and about the botching of the rape case. But those mistakes are already public knowledge.

The murder case is a different story. Protecting the Laureans in the murder case would not benefit the Marines in any way. Doing whatever they can to make sure either or both have to face justice would.

Truly
01-29-2008, 02:28 AM
I agree with you about the problems with the military in general and about the botching of the rape case. But those mistakes are already public knowledge.

The murder case is a different story. Protecting the Laureans in the murder case would not benefit the Marines in any way. Doing whatever they can to make sure either or both have to face justice would.

The military did not make a 'mistake' in the prosecution of the rape case. Standard Operating Procedure was followed. In every instance that a woman has reported harrassment BY the military TO the military, a deliberate and criminal attempt has been made to humiliate, degrade, punish, and silence the victim, while at the same time cheering and back-slapping the aggressor.

I am amazed that a long time poster on a victims advocacy website would so steadfastly defend the military instead of the victim. 'Public Knowledge' is not a sufficient penalty. Criminal prosecution is in order.

STEADFAST
01-29-2008, 09:53 AM
The military did not make a 'mistake' in the prosecution of the rape case. Standard Operating Procedure was followed. In every instance that a woman has reported harrassment BY the military TO the military, a deliberate and criminal attempt has been made to humiliate, degrade, punish, and silence the victim, while at the same time cheering and back-slapping the aggressor.



If Cesar Laurean, who was headed to an Article 32 hearing, had thought he was going to get away with raping Maria, why would he kill her and try to burn away the DNA evidence? Why would he tell his friends he would run to Mexico, if he had reason to believe Marines are never found guilty of rape? Why would he have a civilian attorney preparing for his hearing, if he believed the military system would protect him? Why would Maria be harassed and intimidated by Laurean, his wife, and his friends to withdraw her accusation, if they did not believe the Marines would follow up on the case anyway?

The mistake I was referring to was not sending either Cesar or Maria to a temporary assignment elsewhere to protect her from harassment and intimidation by Cesar, his wife, and his friends. That would have been standard operating procedure, and there is no excuse that it wasn't followed, and I think it would have saved Maria's life.

Littledeer
01-29-2008, 10:18 AM
I am not a "military" person, so I could be off base here (excuse the pun).

IMO: Both Maria and CL lived OFF BASE, if the Protective Order was only for on base premises, that means CL and company could continue to harass Maria off base with no repercussions, UNLESS, Maria had also filed her complaint with the local LE.

While on base, the PO was only (IIRC) for CL to stay away from Maria by 100 yards. To me, that is nothing!! I agree with Steadfast that either of them should have been reassigned to another base until the paternity of the father was established. (If that is what you were implying Steadfast?)

Did anyone catch the CSI episode yesterday (around 6:00 p.m. Eastern Time) that dealth with an Army Officer and the local LE wanting to inverview him? It was very interesting as if closely paralled this case in the Marines vs. Local LE jurisdictions over a military officer.

Jolynna
01-29-2008, 10:21 AM
If Cesar Laurean, who was headed to an Article 32 hearing, had thought he was going to get away with raping Maria, why would he kill her and try to burn away the DNA evidence? Why would he tell his friends he would run to Mexico, if he had reason to believe Marines are never found guilty of rape? Why would he have a civilian attorney preparing for his hearing, if he believed the military system would protect him? Why would Maria be harassed and intimidated by Laurean, his wife, and his friends to withdraw her accusation, if they did not believe the Marines would follow up on the case anyway?

The mistake I was referring to was not sending either Cesar or Maria to a temporary assignment elsewhere to protect her from harassment and intimidation by Cesar, his wife, and his friends. That would have been standard operating procedure, and there is no excuse that it wasn't followed, and I think it would have saved Maria's life.

I totally agree with this post.

I don't understand why either CL or Maria was not sent to a post elsewhere until after the hearing.

But, other than that...what SHOULD the Marines have done? (And don't get me wrong, I TOTALLY, 100% think THAT should have happened.)

Before the hearing, it truly was a he said/she said. Should CL have been locked up? What evidence existed for charges to be filed? There were no witnesses. Since the report was made weeks after the fact there was no physical evidence. CL didn't confess. He didn't admit to having sex with Maria. Where was the proof, other than Maria's word, that he did?

As Steadfast said, CL didn't think the marines would stand behind him once there WAS evidence physical contact had occured.

My opinion.

froggierintexas
01-29-2008, 10:33 AM
Can he be extradited as AWOL without the murder charge being a consideration?

Littledeer
01-29-2008, 10:44 AM
I might be mistaken, but at this point of time, CL has only been declared UA by the Marines.

FRMUSMC answered this question or one very similiar to it in one of these threads. I've been trying to find it, but no such luck so far.

STEADFAST
01-29-2008, 11:04 AM
I might be mistaken, but at this point of time, CL has only been declared UA by the Marines.

FRMUSMC answered this question or one very similiar to it in one of these threads. I've been trying to find it, but no such luck so far.

Not sure we would hear about a change of status. Here's a clip of part of the the procedure to deal with UA/deserter status and a link to the whole paperwork process. As you can see, there's a lot of filling out and mailing of forms.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:hpTPimUYehIJ:www.psalant.navy.mil/epass/topics/Subtopics/ua.htm+ua+deserter&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us&client=firefox-a

Command Responsibilities
§ When member goes UA

Submit the Daily Absentee Report no later than 0900 to PSD with the name, pay grade and Social Security Number (SSN) of the unauthorized absentee. Include date, hour UA commenced and whether person was absent over leave, liberty or UA. · Send letter to next-of-kin on 10th day of UA. Ensure copy of letter is sent to local reserve Chaplain and PSD in accordance with MILPERSMAN 1600-040.

Submit Report of Declaration of Desertion message to Navy Absentee Collection and Information Center (NACIC) Great Lakes on the 31st day of UA per MILPERSMAN. If the 31st day falls on a weekend/holiday, submit the report on the first working day following the 30th day of UA. Forward a copy to PSD for filing in the member’s service record.
Prepare the Deserter/Absentee Wanted by the Armed Forces (DD Form 553) (http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/infomgt/forms/eforms/dd0553.pdf) and mail it to NACIC Great Lakes. Additionally, forward a copy of Incident/Complaint Report (OPNAV 5527/1), copy of member’s Page 2 (Record of Emergency Data), enlistment contract, photograph of member (if available), and copy of latest leave papers. Provide PSD a copy of DD 553 for filing.
Prepare the Inventory of Personal Effects (Lost – Abandoned – Unclaimed) (NAVSUP Form 29) (http://www.psalant.navy.mil/epass/Forms/UA%20-%20Deserters%20Article%20-%20NAVSUP%20Form%2029.pdf) per NAVSUP P-485 Volume 1 (Afloat Supply) and send personal effects to: Cheatham Annex, Naval Supply Center, Norfolk, VA. Forward a copy to PSD with member’s medical and dental records.

Littledeer
01-29-2008, 11:08 AM
STEADFAST:

Correct me if I am wrong, but there is DEFINATELY a difference between the Marines classifying you as UA or as AWOL. Right?

STEADFAST
01-29-2008, 11:09 AM
STEADFAST:

Correct me if I am wrong, but there is DEFINATELY a difference between the Marines classifying you as UA or as AWOL. Right?

No. Well, yes. There is no such thing as AWOL in the Navy or Marines. It's UA and then deserter.

Littledeer
01-29-2008, 11:12 AM
AAAAAAAAAAAh, that definately clarifies that issue for me! Thanks! So we know he is listed as UA as of 1/11, so next comes deserter, after I am assuming of so many days off base...........

Is that when the paperwork comes in that you had posted earlier?

btw, did you get my email?

STEADFAST
01-29-2008, 11:20 AM
AAAAAAAAAAAh, that definately clarifies that issue for me! Thanks! So we know he is listed as UA as of 1/11, so next comes deserter, after I am assuming of so many days off base...........

Is that when the paperwork comes in that you had posted earlier?

btw, did you get my email?

There's a bunch of paperwork for UA, and then a bunch more for deserter.
The first part of the paperwork has been completed for sure. Plus, the 10-day letter must have gone out.

Even with just a UA, he would be facing a court martial, jail time, and a dishonorable discharge. Of course, that could only be accomplished AFTER he serves life imprisonment for murder. :behindbar

Littledeer
01-29-2008, 11:28 AM
Steadfast:

That "10 day letter" then must be what I had written in the timeline was about. I messed it up with the contact of Maria's mother. Will need to correct that.

What would he be labeled as while he is in prison? He would no longer be UA or a deserter IMO, unless the deserter still stands because he is not officially on base?? Refresh my memory, who GETS to prosecute him first???

STEADFAST
01-29-2008, 11:35 AM
Steadfast:

That "10 day letter" then must be what I had written in the timeline was about. I messed it up with the contact of Maria's mother. Will need to correct that.

What would he be labeled as while he is in prison? He would no longer be UA or a deserter IMO, unless the deserter still stands because he is not officially on base?? Refresh my memory, who GETS to prosecute him first???

He'd be labled "scumbag," and he would be in the military while he was in prison. When he got out, he would be dishonorably discharged.

I think who prosecutes him first is something they work out between military and civilian authorities. In this case, I believe the military has said they will wait their turn until after the civilians are through with him. However, he would not be allowed to be free on bail or anything. It would be either civilian jail or military pre-trial detention while he awaits trial.

davenj
02-02-2008, 09:19 AM
This is my first post here.This case is what originally led me to this site.Fantastic site by the way.I'm a former Marine who was stationed at Lejeune my last two years in the Corps.I'm sickened about what happened to Maria and her baby.I also believe that the Marine Corps dropped the ball during the investigation.I served and was honorably discharged.Please don't lump all of us male and female who have served into the same catagory as CL and his wife.He is neither a marine or a man.

davenj
02-02-2008, 09:25 AM
STEADFAST:

Correct me if I am wrong, but there is DEFINATELY a difference between the Marines classifying you as UA or as AWOL. Right?

AWOL and UA are the same thing.Just two differant terms.The military loves acronyms.UA=USMC=unauthorized abscence,AWOL=USA=absent without leave.UA is for someone not reporting to thier duty station without that absence being authorized.It can run up to 30 days.After 30 you go into deserter status.
I noticed that there were some questions about the way USMC operates and I can hopefully clear some thing up for you guys on that.Feel free to ask and if I know the answer,I'll let ya know

davenj
02-02-2008, 09:33 AM
I totally agree with this post.

I don't understand why either CL or Maria was not sent to a post elsewhere until after the hearing.

But, other than that...what SHOULD the Marines have done? (And don't get me wrong, I TOTALLY, 100% think THAT should have happened.)

Before the hearing, it truly was a he said/she said. Should CL have been locked up? What evidence existed for charges to be filed? There were no witnesses. Since the report was made weeks after the fact there was no physical evidence. CL didn't confess. He didn't admit to having sex with Maria. Where was the proof, other than Maria's word, that he did?

As Steadfast said, CL didn't think the marines would stand behind him once there WAS evidence physical contact had occured.

My opinion.

I asked the same question myself on why they where not sent to other bases.New River,Cherry Point(not sure if it's still open) and Quantico are all right there.Maria was only assigned to a building on the other side of the base.That is a start but....being as how they were in the same unit,they would have had to have been in the same formations at least 3 times daily.His friends would have been in the same barracks.They also would have been using the same chowhall.
I couldn't understand the logic behind it.Then I saw an interview with a recently retired JAG.The same question was brought up.She explained that if you transfer Maria off base,essentailly you've punished her for being a victim.If you transfer him,you've punished him before he's been proven giulty.Go figure.Personally,I'd have had him locked in the brig until trial,especially once the regimental commander deemed there was enough evidence to go to an Article 32 hearing for a rape accusation.

Truly
02-02-2008, 11:21 AM
Hi davenj, I do have a question. According to the Marines, Maria was listed as a deserter on Dec 17, the very day that she was first reported missing. The Marines did not even bother to call her mother until Dec 18. So it seems they disregarded any 30-day or 45-day wait period in the case of Maria.

My question is, was Laurean charged with desertion on Jan 11? Has he ever been charged with desertion, or are the Marines allowing him the full benefit of a 30-45 day wait time? TIA

Littledeer
02-02-2008, 01:27 PM
Welcome to WS devenj! :blowkiss:

If I am not mistaken, according to you then CL would be declared as a desterter on 2/11/08, that would be the 30 day mark from when he was declared as UA which happenend on 1/11/08? Is that correct?

Let me say, that even though CL was a "Marine", I do NOT think all Marines, or any other military branch are like him.

THANK YOU for serving our Country and preserving our lives, rights, freedom, etc.

Would it have been possible for the CO's to have offered to either Maria or Cesar to be reassigned to another base but they both declined?? And that is why they were reassigned within the base compound??

davenj
02-02-2008, 06:02 PM
Hi davenj, I do have a question. According to the Marines, Maria was listed as a deserter on Dec 17, the very day that she was first reported missing. The Marines did not even bother to call her mother until Dec 18. So it seems they disregarded any 30-day or 45-day wait period in the case of Maria.

My question is, was Laurean charged with desertion on Jan 11? Has he ever been charged with desertion, or are the Marines allowing him the full benefit of a 30-45 day wait time? TIA

Maria was listed as a deserter right away due to the fact that she was so far along into the pregnancy.It was a command decision.They were concerned that an 8.5 months pregnant Marine didn't report for work.Also,the roommate had turned in the note and she didn't answer her cell phone.If you're just UA they won't send out "chasers" looking for you since there is usually a reason.My buddy and I were listed as UA when we got hung up in traffic coming into base one day.This was before everyone had cell phones.We couldn't call,missed formation and got listed.Once we checked in the UA was dropped after they verified our reason

CL was never listed UA as far as I know.He continued to report for work on time and preform his duties until the day he fled.Due to the circumstances around him fleeing on 01/11/08 the command went right to deserter status since he had been saying he'd head to Mexico.

davenj
02-02-2008, 06:08 PM
Welcome to WS devenj! :blowkiss:

If I am not mistaken, according to you then CL would be declared as a desterter on 2/11/08, that would be the 30 day mark from when he was declared as UA which happenend on 1/11/08? Is that correct?

Let me say, that even though CL was a "Marine", I do NOT think all Marines, or any other military branch are like him.

THANK YOU for serving our Country and preserving our lives, rights, freedom, etc.

Would it have been possible for the CO's to have offered to either Maria or Cesar to be reassigned to another base but they both declined?? And that is why they were reassigned within the base compound??

I wondered myself why she wasn't assigned to New River MCAS,or Quantico after the rape charge.Both bases are close,especially New River.She was assigned to a building on the opposite side of Lejeune.She still would have been in the same formations as CL at least 3 times a day.His friends would have been in the same barracks as well as the chow hall.

I saw a show with a recently retired JAG and she cleared it up.If you transfer her,you in essence have punished her for being a victim.If you transfer him,you're punishing him before a guilty conviction.I would have had him in the brig awaiting trial especially when the regimental commander had decided to go ahead with the Article 32 hearing.

Truly
02-02-2008, 08:54 PM
Thank you, davenj. On Jan 15, 2008, in the Marine Corps news conference, I read the following explanation: "The command requests permission to list LCpl Lauterbach as a deserter in order to release a DD553 to apprehend her. This was an extraordinary step taken in hope of having her returned so the command could ensure she was receiving the proper medical care. Basically, with a DD553, federal resources could be used to assist in locating her."

Couple of follow up questions, if I may?

Is there any documentation that the public may read stating that Laurean has in fact been listed as a deserter and on what date?

Also, has a DD553 been released on him, and do you know what federal resources they are referring to?

One other thing I have been trying to figure out; I know that The FBI Academy is located on the USMC Base at Quantico. Is the FBI subordinate to the command of the military?

Thanks!

Truly
02-02-2008, 10:37 PM
Maria was listed as a deserter right away due to the fact that she was so far along into the pregnancy.It was a command decision.They were concerned that an 8.5 months pregnant Marine didn't report for work.Also,the roommate had turned in the note and she didn't answer her cell phone.If you're just UA they won't send out "chasers" looking for you since there is usually a reason.My buddy and I were listed as UA when we got hung up in traffic coming into base one day.This was before everyone had cell phones.We couldn't call,missed formation and got listed.Once we checked in the UA was dropped after they verified our reason

CL was never listed UA as far as I know.He continued to report for work on time and preform his duties until the day he fled.Due to the circumstances around him fleeing on 01/11/08 the command went right to deserter status since he had been saying he'd head to Mexico.


I should add that in the same USMC press conference dated Jan 15, 2008, the following statement was made:

"On Friday, January 11, 2008 Cpl Laurean fails to report to work and fails to call his command... Cpl Laurean is reported UA."

There has been no further word from the military, except the widely published column announcing that on Jan 11, 2008, 3200 Marines were deployed to Afghanistan. (2200 from Camp Lejeune and 1000 from Twentynine Palms.)

Seven
02-02-2008, 11:00 PM
I wondered myself why she wasn't assigned to New River MCAS,or Quantico after the rape charge.Both bases are close,especially New River.She was assigned to a building on the opposite side of Lejeune.She still would have been in the same formations as CL at least 3 times a day.His friends would have been in the same barracks as well as the chow hall.

Welcome aboard, davenj! :)

You just brought up an interesting question. If Maria and Cesar were in the same formations, etc., would they have been able to stay "1000 feet apart" at all times, as they had been ordered by 1) company commander; 2) regimental commander?

Military Protective Order, according to the Marine Timeline:

05-12-07 .... Verbal order to Cpl Laurean to "stay a minimum of 1000 feet from" Maria.

09-20-07 .... written MPO (for 9/20 thru 12/23) issued by regimental commander.

http://www.newbernsj.com/news/lauterbach_38149___article.html/lcpl_cpl.html


I ask because, if there were daily situations that would require them to be less than 1000 feet apart, then the orders were knowingly contradictory and logically and physically impossible to follow.

:confused:

Seven
02-02-2008, 11:11 PM
I saw a show with a recently retired JAG and she cleared it up.If you transfer her,you in essence have punished her for being a victim.If you transfer him,you're punishing him before a guilty conviction.I would have had him in the brig awaiting trial especially when the regimental commander had decided to go ahead with the Article 32 hearing.

That raises another question, Dave! :)

When did the regimental commander decide to go ahead with the Article 32 hearing?

If it was done, it must have been one month after Maria's death/Marine Timeline presser on 01-15-08 because, according to that official timeline, the last mention of "Article 32" is:

"On November 26, 2007 ... no Article 32 hearing is scheduled as Cpl Laurean has not been charged with any offenses."

http://www.newbernsj.com/news/lauterbach_38149___article.html/lcpl_cpl.html


:behindbar

STEADFAST
02-02-2008, 11:22 PM
That raises another question, Dave! :)

When did the regimental commander decide to go ahead with the Article 32 hearing?

If it was done, it must have been one month after Maria's death/Marine Timeline presser on 01-15-08 because, according to that official timeline, the last mention of "Article 32" is:

"On November 26, 2007 ... no Article 32 hearing is scheduled as Cpl Laurean has not been charged with any offenses."

http://www.newbernsj.com/news/lauterbach_38149___article.html/lcpl_cpl.html


:behindbar

They were still in the review process for the Article 32 hearing -- all they had at that point was Christina's word against Cesar's word. That process was started in October. They were waiting to schedule the actual hearing until after the baby was born and they could get the DNA evidence. Without the DNA evidence, the Article 32 would have gone nowhere.
By the way, Article 32 hearings are open to the general public, and all the evidence on both sides is brought out. If Christina ever finds herself facing an Article 32 hearing, I hope some member of this list will attend.

Truly
02-02-2008, 11:38 PM
They were still in the review process for the Article 32 hearing -- all they had at that point was Christina's word against Cesar's word. That process was started in October. They were waiting to schedule the actual hearing until after the baby was born and they could get the DNA evidence. Without the DNA evidence, the Article 32 would have gone nowhere.
By the way, Article 32 hearings are open to the general public, and all the evidence on both sides is brought out. If Christina ever finds herself facing an Article 32 hearing, I hope some member of this list will attend.

So, now that the baby's DNA has been extracted due to the AUTOPSY conducted before the baby had the chance to even get BORN, I ask, will the USMC proceed with the Article 32 hearing? Or will the USMC allow all charges against Cesar Laurean to fade into oblivion?:mad:

(By the way, Seven, you have brought up some very good points in this forum. <high five smiley>)

Seven
02-02-2008, 11:50 PM
They were still in the review process for the Article 32 hearing -- all they had at that point was Christina's word against Cesar's word. That process was started in October. They were waiting to schedule the actual hearing until after the baby was born and they could get the DNA evidence. Without the DNA evidence, the Article 32 would have gone nowhere.
By the way, Article 32 hearings are open to the general public, and all the evidence on both sides is brought out. If Christina ever finds herself facing an Article 32 hearing, I hope some member of this list will attend.

Thanks, Steadfast ....... that goes along with what I had read in the presser timeline. When davenj wrote "regimental commander had decided to go ahead with the Article 32 hearing," I was curious where he got that info. Especially if he heard it from "a recently retired JAG" on TV.

Now an article 32 on Xtina is an interesting idea.
I didnt know they were public. That's commendable.

Which list do you mean? :)

STEADFAST
02-02-2008, 11:51 PM
So, now that the baby's DNA has been extracted due to the AUTOPSY conducted before the baby had the chance to even get BORN, I ask, will the USMC proceed with the Article 32 hearing? Or will the USMC allow all charges against Cesar Laurean to fade into oblivion?:mad:

(By the way, Seven, you have brought up some very good points in this forum. <high five smiley>)

North Carolina has first dibs on prosecuting Laurean, but you can bet the Marines will take second dibs to make sure he never sees the light of day.

peace9274
02-02-2008, 11:52 PM
Did anyone watch The Line-Up ("Crime related news stories with host Kimberly Guilfoyle") tonight? If so, please correct me if I'm wrong with what I think I heard!

I was napping, before going into work tonight, and woke up to this case being discussed.

There was a Marine (ex?) answering Kimberely's questions about how the Marines would be involved in bringing Laurean back to the US.

He said there are USMC "chasers" (he had been one), when a Marine is/has desertion status. He was sure there are some chasers now looking for Laurean.

If Mexican LE caught Laurean first, they could/would turn him over to, I think he said, a military base (?... is there one in Mexico?) or a military facility of some sort, and then they, the US Military, take over.

Laurean would then be in the custody of the US, despite him physically being in Mexico... and would be brought back into the US, regardless of there being the DP... with Mexico not having a say in it at all.

Kimberely said that Dog, the Bounty Hunter, had predicted that Laurean would surely be caught in about 2 weeks. She asked the guy if he felt the same way.

The guy said, "Yes! Definitely. I predict sooner than that!"

I'm hope I explained correctly, what I know I heard. I was still very tired when I woke up and the segment was on. I had worked today, went to a wake afterwards, came home and had only 3 hours to get some sleep/rest, before getting ready to go back into work!

The subconscious/sleep induced state I was in heard Laurean's name on TV and woke me up, (after 1.5 hrs sleep!) and I wasn't able to go back to sleep!

Now, I have 20 minutes to shower, get dressed, do makeup and hair.... and get to work! GRRRRR

STEADFAST
02-02-2008, 11:53 PM
Which list do you mean? :)

Er . . . I meant "forum" not "list." I'm a member of a listserver, and am used to referring to fellow posters on that as members of the "list." Sorry for the confusion.

Seven
02-03-2008, 12:03 AM
So, now that the baby's DNA has been extracted due to the AUTOPSY conducted before the baby had the chance to even get BORN, I ask, will the USMC proceed with the Article 32 hearing? Or will the USMC allow all charges against Cesar Laurean to fade into oblivion?:mad:

(By the way, Seven, you have brought up some very good points in this forum. <high five smiley>)

Right back attcha, Truly! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_201.gif

About the charges fading into oblivion ... how does that slogan go ? . . . The few--The proud--The marines ....

I wonder which few are proud of the decision-making for their marine Maria?

Always faithful ..... hmmmm ..... could Laurean have gotten in trouble militarily for being unfaithful to his wife?

STEADFAST
02-03-2008, 12:05 AM
Right back attcha, Truly! http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_1_201.gif

About the charges fading into oblivion ... how does that slogan go ? . . . The few--The proud--The marines ....

I wonder which few are proud of the decision-making for their marine Maria?

Always faithful ..... hmmmm ..... could Laurean have gotten in trouble militarily for being unfaithful to his wife?
dultery, as a military offense, is difficult to prosecute (legally) for several reasons. There are three "Elements of Proof" for the offense of Adultery in the Military:

(1) That the accused wrongfully had sexual intercourse with a certain person;
(2) That, at the time, the accused or the other person was married to someone else; and
(3) That, under the circumstances, the conduct of the accused was to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces or was of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.. . . Element #3, in many cases, can be the most difficult item to prove. The government must show that the individual's conduct had some direct negative impact on the military. This normally would include cases of fraternization (officer & enlisted) or a relationship with another military member, or a military spouse. http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/a/adultery.htm


Yes. He could have gone to jail for it. But so could Maria.

Seven
02-03-2008, 12:06 AM
Er . . . I meant "forum" not "list." I'm a member of a listserver, and am used to referring to fellow posters on that as members of the "list." Sorry for the confusion.

No prob! :D Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on something.

Very interesting ...... We gotta have some WS members who live near camp le jeune ........ do you know about how many of these article 32's happen per year?

And are the public notified in advance? Are they spectators on a first come basis like in civilian trials?

Seven
02-03-2008, 12:09 AM
Yes. He could have gone to jail for it.

hmmmm .... another motive, especially after he already lied about not having "sex with that woman" :rolleyes:

do you know how they would handle it?
I mean, if the baby's DNA turns out to be half CL's?

STEADFAST
02-03-2008, 12:13 AM
hmmmm .... another motive, especially after he already lied about not having "sex with that woman" :rolleyes:

do you know how they would handle it?
I mean, if the baby's DNA turns out to be half CL's?

See my edited post.

I don't know what they'll do about an adultery charge if the DNA is half Laurean's. I'd think it would take a far back seat to a murder charge.

Truly
02-03-2008, 01:27 AM
See my edited post.

I don't know what they'll do about an adultery charge if the DNA is half Laurean's. I'd think it would take a far back seat to a murder charge.

The Marines are not charging Laurean with Murder, Rape, Desertion, Adultery, or anything else for that matter. At this point in time, all the USMC claims to have done is list Laurean as UA. (The penalty for UA is a slap on the hand and then all is forgiven and forgotten.) No military or civilian LE has made any statement as to Laurean's whereabouts. One reporter claims to have interviewed someone in Mexico, but that has not been substiantiated by any LE or the USMC. The only step I have seen taken by LE/USMC (who knows who is in charge here??), was to place some kind of electronic billboards up in Maria's hometown. As if Laurean would flee there?? Something stinks to high heaven of High Treason.:furious:

Seven
02-03-2008, 02:01 AM
The Marines are not charging Laurean with Murder, Desertion, Adultery, or anything else for that matter. At this point in time, all the USMC claims to have done is list Laurean as UA. (The penalty for UA is a slap on the hand and then all is forgiven and forgotten.) No military or civilian LE has made any statement as to Laurean's whereabouts. One reporter claims to have interviewed someone in Mexico, but that has not been substiantiated by any LE or the USMC. The only step I have seen taken by LE/USMC (who knows who is in charge here??), was to place some kind of electronic billboards up, beginning in Maria's hometown. As if Laurean would flee there?? Something stinks to high heaven of High Treason.:furious:

It definitely stinks. Something doesn't jibe.

There's something wrong when Americans can see, before their very eyes on 01-22-08 (as was replayed tonight), Harris Whitlock (the CNN bureau chief in Mexico City) interviewing CL's cousin in Guadalajara. I thought it might be a bit presumptuous of Whitlock when he asked the cousin for his ID, and the cousin showed it to him (while the cnn camera was rolling), but then while the story was being broadcast, they showed a close-up of the cousin's ID.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN MEXICO CITY BUREAU CHIEF (voice over): We`re in the city of Guadalajara where Laurean`s family originally was from. We just spoke to a young man by the name of Juan Antonio Ramos who it says he is a cousin of Cesar Laurean. And he told us that his cousin visited him here in Guadalajara just about one week ago.

(On camera) Have you been in touch with your cousin lately?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes. The other day.

WHITBECK: He called you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): No, he stopped by.

WHITBECK: Cesar Armando? The one who lives in the United States. He came to see you here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, just a few days ago. Last week.

WHITBECK: Is this he?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Yes, this is he.

WHITBECK (voice over): We asked him if at the time he knew of the charges that have been levied against his cousin, and he said no. Shortly after that visit, he saw the news on CNN that his cousin was being looked for.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0801/22/ng.01.html

Wait a minute, Truly .... I just thought of something .... when you said neither LE nor the marines have substantiated it ... are you thinking they might claim it was a ruse cooked up by CL's cousin to point the arrow at Mexico while CL was actually in, say, Canada?

IOW, they can't deny what the cousin said,
but they could deny that the cousin was being truthful?

Truly
02-03-2008, 02:12 AM
It definitely stinks. Something doesn't jibe.

Wait a minute, Truly .... I just thought of something .... when you said neither LE nor the marines have substantiated it ... are you thinking they might claim it was a ruse cooked up by CL's cousin to point the arrow at Mexico while CL was actually in, say, Canada?



No, Seven, I am suggesting that the USMC may have cooked up a ruse suggesting CL is in Mexico, while he (and xtina) are actually in...say...Afghanistan.

Seven
02-03-2008, 02:30 AM
No, Seven, I am suggesting that the USMC may have cooked up a ruse suggesting CL is in Mexico, while he (and xtina) are actually in...say...Afghanistan.

Woah doggies! <she said sounding like rosco p. coltrane from dukes of hazard>

Not that it couldnt happen to a nicer pair <wink>

If that did happen, would USMC be under obligation to notify Onslow County sheriff's department?

STEADFAST
02-03-2008, 07:17 AM
No, Seven, I am suggesting that the USMC may have cooked up a ruse suggesting CL is in Mexico, while he (and xtina) are actually in...say...Afghanistan.

:) I'm sure the other deployed Marines would be delighted to get their hands on the two!

Seriously, though, I don't think the troops involved in that announcement have left LeJeune yet.

davenj
02-03-2008, 02:32 PM
Thank you, davenj. On Jan 15, 2008, in the Marine Corps news conference, I read the following explanation: "The command requests permission to list LCpl Lauterbach as a deserter in order to release a DD553 to apprehend her. This was an extraordinary step taken in hope of having her returned so the command could ensure she was receiving the proper medical care. Basically, with a DD553, federal resources could be used to assist in locating her."

Couple of follow up questions, if I may?

Is there any documentation that the public may read stating that Laurean has in fact been listed as a deserter and on what date?

Also, has a DD553 been released on him, and do you know what federal resources they are referring to?

One other thing I have been trying to figure out; I know that The FBI Academy is located on the USMC Base at Quantico. Is the FBI subordinate to the command of the military?

Thanks!

The marines would have listed him as UA when he didn't report to work on 1/11,once the whole nine yards came out and it was apparent he wasn't coming back they would upgrade it to desrter.Then they can issue a DD553 and get assistance from other agencies in tracking him down.About Quantico.I know that it is classified first as a Marine Corps base,but I'm not sure if the FBI is a subordinate comand there.

davenj
02-03-2008, 02:41 PM
I honestly don't think Maria was going to leave the area.She was 8.5 months pregnant.If she leaves the area she's leaving her free medical care.I know the Marines do have day care on base.I'm not sure how it would effect her deployment status.At eight and a half months and being bed ridden quite a bit I doubt she was doing a bus trip to Texas.I used the bus station she did to come home to NJ once.It takes 8-10 hours if I drove.On the bus it left at 8am and got to NJ at 230am.About 15 hours and that's just a 370 mile trip.

Another thing,she was being harrassed on base and was lonely and felt left out.If she goes to Texas she's really alone and is going to have no one to help her with the baby.She'll be a fugitive basically and have no medical or pay coming in.If she goes to Mexico to meet up with CL she's really gonna stick out there and still be alone.

davenj
02-03-2008, 02:46 PM
Welcome aboard, davenj! :)

You just brought up an interesting question. If Maria and Cesar were in the same formations, etc., would they have been able to stay "1000 feet apart" at all times, as they had been ordered by 1) company commander; 2) regimental commander?

Military Protective Order, according to the Marine Timeline:

05-12-07 .... Verbal order to Cpl Laurean to "stay a minimum of 1000 feet from" Maria.

09-20-07 .... written MPO (for 9/20 thru 12/23) issued by regimental commander.

http://www.newbernsj.com/news/lauterbach_38149___article.html/lcpl_cpl.html


I ask because, if there were daily situations that would require them to be less than 1000 feet apart, then the orders were knowingly contradictory and logically and physically impossible to follow.

:confused:

There is no way that you would be able to avoid someone in a formation.You also have to figure his buddies would be in the same barracks as her,you also would have the chowhall,PX and unit briefings/meetings where they would have been in close proximity.I really wish I could remember what show interviewed the JAG.I saw that before I started looking around and found this site..ugh!!

STEADFAST
02-03-2008, 03:03 PM
I honestly don't think Maria was going to leave the area.She was 8.5 months pregnant.If she leaves the area she's leaving her free medical care.I know the Marines do have day care on base.I'm not sure how it would effect her deployment status.At eight and a half months and being bed ridden quite a bit I doubt she was doing a bus trip to Texas.I used the bus station she did to come home to NJ once.It takes 8-10 hours if I drove.On the bus it left at 8am and got to NJ at 230am.About 15 hours and that's just a 370 mile trip.

Another thing,she was being harrassed on base and was lonely and felt left out.If she goes to Texas she's really alone and is going to have no one to help her with the baby.She'll be a fugitive basically and have no medical or pay coming in.If she goes to Mexico to meet up with CL she's really gonna stick out there and still be alone.

I agree. I don't know why she bought the bus ticket to El Paso. El Paso has nothing to do with her, but it has something to do with Laurean, since it's on the border with Mexico. Maybe Laurean told her that HE would leave if she bought him a bus ticket, just to get her to buy the ticket -- to help create his smoke screen that she had run away.

Truly
02-03-2008, 03:08 PM
The marines would have listed him as UA when he didn't report to work on 1/11,once the whole nine yards came out and it was apparent he wasn't coming back they would upgrade it to desrter.Then they can issue a DD553 and get assistance from other agencies in tracking him down.About Quantico.I know that it is classified first as a Marine Corps base,but I'm not sure if the FBI is a subordinate comand there.

Thanks, davenj, your insight is very much appreciated. The reason I distrust the military timeline is that 'the whole nine yards' were grusomely revealed when Maria and her baby were dug out of the Laurean's backyard on Saturday, Jan 12. Before then, if fact, as LE had Laurean's note confessing to burying Maria at 8am on Jan 11th. Yet, as of the 15th, and to this day, there has not been one scrap of documentation that he has been listed as a deserter. There was an inexcusable 17-day delay of even starting the process of having him arrested. How many tries at a first down does this guy get? Is anybody even looking for him besides TV personalities? I think the USMC knows exactly where he is. And they are under no obligation to tell any LE in America what they know. :confused:

Seven
02-03-2008, 05:47 PM
There is no way that you would be able to avoid someone in a formation.You also have to figure his buddies would be in the same barracks as her,you also would have the chowhall,PX and unit briefings/meetings where they would have been in close proximity.I really wish I could remember what show interviewed the JAG.I saw that before I started looking around and found this site..ugh!!

I never realized that before, davenj, and it gets me really :furious:

Correct me if my math is wrong: 1000 feet.
There are 3 feet in a yard, so 1000 feet = 333 yards.
A footbal field is 100 yards, so 333 yards = 3 football fields!

From what you're saying, it was logically and physically impossible for Maria and Cesar to remain even 1 football field apart, let alone 3 football fields, right?

So, unless the company commander and the regimental commander are both shape-shifting reptilian aliens brought in from Mars, they knew blankety-blank well that the protective orders they issued would not be followed because they COULD NOT be followed ............ AND the very fact that they issued orders of that kind shows the Protective Orders were ........ nothing more than CYA--something to say to anyone who might question them on the alleged rape (or even in a press conference) to make it appear as though they had actually responded appropriately, taking Maria seriously, when what they were ACTUALLY DOING was throwing her to the wolves on a daily basis.

disgusting! :eek:

Truly
02-03-2008, 08:54 PM
:laugh: :laugh:



So, unless the company commander and the regimental commander are both shape-shifting reptilian aliens brought in from Mars :eek:

(OT, Seven, you crack me up!:) )

I honestly think that there is an attempt to sweep this whole thing under the rug. I am hoping that some of the Marines who knew the Laureans, went to their big parties on Maria's grave, or have experienced the way the US military always deals with rape as a good ol boy sport, will develop a backbone and speak out. 'Course, everyone can plainly see what happened to Maria when she attempted to seek justice. But surely there are some Marines who posess the quality of courage? Has the $25,000.00 reward been splashed prominently across the front page of every paper that enlisted troops receive? That kind of money goes a long way in the communities which are heavily recruited. So far, I haven't heard a peep. I think the USMC knows where he is, and no LE has the authority to challenge them.

davenj
02-03-2008, 10:26 PM
I never realized that before, davenj, and it gets me really :furious:

Correct me if my math is wrong: 1000 feet.
There are 3 feet in a yard, so 1000 feet = 333 yards.
A footbal field is 100 yards, so 333 yards = 3 football fields!

From what you're saying, it was logically and physically impossible for Maria and Cesar to remain even 1 football field apart, let alone 3 football fields, right?

So, unless the company commander and the regimental commander are both shape-shifting reptilian aliens brought in from Mars, they knew blankety-blank well that the protective orders they issued would not be followed because they COULD NOT be followed ............ AND the very fact that they issued orders of that kind shows the Protective Orders were ........ nothing more than CYA--something to say to anyone who might question them on the alleged rape (or even in a press conference) to make it appear as though they had actually responded appropriately, taking Maria seriously, when what they were ACTUALLY DOING was throwing her to the wolves on a daily basis.

disgusting! :eek:

Formations aren't that big,a typical platoon is maybe 40-50 people.If CL was in Maria's work section he would know where she was daily.He was a corporal,she was a lance corporal so he would at least know someone who could tell him where she was.I knew where all my people where daily when I was a squad leader and could easily find out where other people where.He'd know when she went to NCIS,base legal and medical.

Truly
02-03-2008, 11:22 PM
Dave, the Marine Corps has listed the "stellar" Laurean as UA. They have not charged him with desertion. The Marine Corps never listed the "solid" Maria Lauterbach as UA; instead they immediately charged her with desertion. Why is that, in your estimation? Are the strict rules followed in some circumstances, and completely disregarded in others?

Seven
02-04-2008, 05:38 AM
(OT, Seven, you crack me up!:) )

I honestly think that there is an attempt to sweep this whole thing under the rug. I am hoping that some of the Marines who knew the Laureans, went to their big parties on Maria's grave, or have experienced the way the US military always deals with rape as a good ol boy sport, will develop a backbone and speak out. 'Course, everyone can plainly see what happened to Maria when she attempted to seek justice. But surely there are some Marines who posess the quality of courage?

You know, Truly, the more I think about this aspect of it, the more science fiction it seems …… well, some kinda fiction anyway. Don’t they have a class for people who are in a position to be appointed to commander …… something basic like “commanding 101”? or “commanding for dummies”? you know, a class where they explain that it’s not practical to give orders that cannot be carried out?

OTOH, maybe their final class before being given advancement to commander is “the art of the coverup.” They apparently can’t handle the truth.

The word “cowardice” is coming more frequently to mind. Facing up to the truth and doing something about it sometimes takes a lot more courage than going to war w/a group. .... Sad! :twocents:

davenj
02-04-2008, 09:22 AM
Dave, the Marine Corps has listed the "stellar" Laurean as UA. They have not charged him with desertion. The Marine Corps never listed the "solid" Maria Lauterbach as UA; instead they immediately charged her with desertion. Why is that, in your estimation? Are the strict rules followed in some circumstances, and completely disregarded in others?

Maria was listed as deserter immediatly because she was so far along in her prgnancy.This way they could get help from other agencies in locating her.CL is listed as UA from what I've seen/read.From personal experience though..when it becomes apparent a person isn't coming back and there are circumstances,especially like this one he'd go straight to deserter status.Command has final say on it.This way they can get outside help,stop his pay and whatever else they are allowed to do.I've seen people go UA,and desert just not with all the twists and turns like this.

btbsmith
02-04-2008, 10:31 AM
Wouldn't Maria and CL be in seperate formations since she was moved across base? I would hope they would seperte them. From my experience this is the first thing you try to do - I had to investigate a much more minor allegation at an AF base - first thing I did was suggest the two parties involved be kept seperate and not allow them together without supervision. This case was not rape, just some acusation of one guy using his position as computer support team lead to harrass the other guy. Interesesting to note that the acusser was labeled by most as a very paranoid person kind of like the labels put on Maria. The accussed in my investigation was very charismatic and moved up chain fast. In the end, I could not prove for sure what had happend, only proved that soemthing happened on the day which the paranoid guy claimed. Commanders put note in these two civil service employees files to not allow them to be assigned together and to not have them in room alone together. Later, the CC of that unit told me that the acussed had been fired for unrelated reasons - pretty-much unheard of to fire a GS14. Military CCs handled wth whole thing well. I was dealing with JAG and IG not OSI (AF version of NCIS) and not SP (AF version of MP).

Note that one problem in this case is that NCIS is purposely seperate from MP and Maria and CL's command. NCIS is kept seperate so they can investigate without predjudice, etc. BUT, this is where communication was dropped both by USMC and by LE. From my experience, any LE around a military base would know to contact NCIS, MPs, and various folks in command chain - sherrif Brown's folks dropped the ball here ealry on in the missing person case...

MCDRAW
02-04-2008, 05:58 PM
sherrif Brown's folks dropped the ball here ealry on in the missing person case...


I see it as the marines dropped the ball...but what do I know!

davenj
02-06-2008, 09:36 AM
sherrif Brown's folks dropped the ball here ealry on in the missing person case...


I see it as the marines dropped the ball...but what do I know!

I'm a former Marine and I agree,the Marines did drop the ball big time.Sherrif Brown's people also dropped the ball.I personally find the level of non urgency and not taking the issue seriously on both sides disgusting.If they were both on the same page who knows what the outcome could have been.

Crime-Dreamer
02-07-2008, 09:34 AM
Does anyone know if a Marine on active duty has ever been convicted of murder? In civil court? Has a Marine on active duty ever been executed for a crime? For murder? Where could I find this information?

Maybe NG would find that one out for me?

davenj
02-07-2008, 10:09 AM
Does anyone know if a Marine on active duty has ever been convicted of murder? In civil court? Has a Marine on active duty ever been executed for a crime? For murder? Where could I find this information?

Maybe NG would find that one out for me?

Yes.I'm not sure of the time frame or the name.Let me go back and look it up for ya.I do remember that he was a captain and had murdered his wife and I belive his daughter.

btbsmith
02-07-2008, 10:11 AM
Does anyone know if a Marine on active duty has ever been convicted of murder? In civil court? Has a Marine on active duty ever been executed for a crime? For murder? Where could I find this information?

Maybe NG would find that one out for me?
I am SURE that, over the years, several Marines have been convicted for murder in both civil and military courts. Know personally of an AF officer convicted via court marshal 17 years ago (now still in Leavenworth) and recall some recent Army folks being convicted in civil court.

Doubt they would execute but being locked-up in Leavenworth would not be so fun...

Jolynna
02-07-2008, 11:30 AM
Yes.I'm not sure of the time frame or the name.Let me go back and look it up for ya.I do remember that he was a captain and had murdered his wife and I belive his daughter.

If I remember correctly, Jeffrey Macdonald was an Army Captain and Green Beret. There was found to be insufficient evidence in a 1970 Article 32 Hearing.

The case was retried in a civilian court years later and Macdonald was convicted.

Crime-Dreamer
02-07-2008, 12:02 PM
If I remember correctly, Jeffrey Macdonald was an Army Captain and Green Beret. There was found to be insufficient evidence in a 1970 Article 32 Hearing.

The case was retried in a civilian court years later and Macdonald was convicted.

Intersting. Was McDonald still in the service at the time of the civil conviction? Was that the only one?

Crime-Dreamer
02-07-2008, 12:07 PM
Weren't there three or so guys that killed their wives at the same base? Didn't they say it was from a vacination? Were they ever charged? Convicted? Is there a place to search military convictions?

Jolynna
02-07-2008, 02:59 PM
Intersting. Was McDonald still in the service at the time of the civil conviction? Was that the only one?

No, Macdonald was not in the service at the time of his conviction. It was going on 10 years before he was convicted.
He was honorably discharged from the army not long after being cleared in the hearing.


I don't know if there were others or not.

btbsmith
02-07-2008, 03:48 PM
There are likley several examples. I personaly knew an AF2Lt who killed his wife during lunch one day and was court martialled. Here are two examples of pregnant woment killed by military members I found in a quick search. IO think both were court marshalled...

- Sgt. Timothy Ward, a soldier serving at the Helemano Military Reservation in Honolulu, was convicted in January 2000 of premeditated murder in the death of his wife, Bianca Ward, who was in the latter stages of pregnancy at the time of her death. Her unborn child did not survive. The cause of death was severe head trauma although there were also several puncture wounds. Ward was dishonorably discharged and sentenced to 35 years of confinement. No charges were brought to the harm done to their unborn child.

- On September 12, 1996, at Wright-Patterson AFB, Airman Gregory Robbins assaulted his wife, Karlene, who was eight months pregnant with their daughter, Jasmine. He covered his fist with a t-shirt and repeatedly struck her in the face and abdomen. Due to the assault, Karlene's uterus ruptured and expelled Jasmine into the abdominal cavity and she died. The baby was not recognized as a victim under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Fortunately, the Air Force prosecutor was able to prosecute under the Ohio unborn victims law, which makes it a crime to kill an unborn child. Robbins pled guilty to assault and battery upon his pregnant wife and involuntary manslaughter for the death of Jasmine.

Truly
02-08-2008, 06:12 PM
Does anyone know if a Marine on active duty has ever been convicted of murder? In civil court? Has a Marine on active duty ever been executed for a crime? For murder? Where could I find this information?

Maybe NG would find that one out for me?

I have been reading up on the Feres Doctrine, which prohibits active duty servicemembers and their families from seeking redress for personal injury or death caused by another member of the armed services.

Basically, it has been upheld (in United States v. Frieda Joyce Johnson No. 85-2039 (1986), referring to the Shearer case) that "interest in military dicipline overcomes the public interest in preventing kidnapping and murders".

Other cases to read include:
Feres v. United States 340 U.S. 135 (1950) (soldier killed in barracks by unsafe heating unit)
United States v. Shearer No 84-194 (1985) (Soldier kidnapped and murdered by another soldier)
Dorothy Mackey v. United States No. 99-4022 (2000) (prohibited from claiming sexual harrassment against commanders)


I'm still studying it, but hope this helps in your search.

davenj
02-12-2008, 08:51 PM
DAILY NEWS STAFF
The creator of an Internet memorial site for a pregnant Marine who authorities say was killed by a colleague in mid-December received online death threats from at least two Marines this week.

"Shut up or get cut up," a post made in the name of Ron Parikh appeared on the MySpace memorial for Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach on Feb. 5.

Marine Corps officials confirmed that Lance Cpl. Parikh, a personnel clerk currently assigned to a training command in California, was under investigation for several MySpace.com postings.

"Parikh is being investigated by the Criminal Investigation Division for information posted on the Internet about Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach," said Capt. Neal Fisher, public affairs director for Marine Corps Air Ground Combat Center at Twenty-nine Palms, Calif.

Another Marine, Lance Cpl. Jonathan Cole, is also under investigation for comments he made on the internet, Marine officials said.

Cole is assigned to a unit in the 2nd Marine Division which is based at Camp Lejeune, said Lt. Col. Curtis Hill, public affairs officer for II Marine Expeditionary Force.

"(Cole's) command is aware of the MySpace issue and is taking appropriate action," Hill said.

Communicating "certain language expressing a present determination or intent to wrongfully injure" someone is a violation of military law, according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

If such communications were "of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces" then Parikh, Cole and any other Marines involved could potentially face even more trouble, according to Article 134 of the UCMJ.

"If Marines were caught doing something inappropriate in uniform or their photograph was associated with something inappropriate online, that is a violation of the UMCJ," said Sgt. Paul Robbins, a public relations officer at Camp Pendleton, Calif.

A photograph of Parikh in dress blues serves as an icon picture on his MySpace account.

Jacksonville resident Miley Collier said she started the memorial page about a week ago as a way to remember Lauterbach and allow other people the opportunity to tell people what Lauterbach meant to them.

"I have received thousands of messages from people saying how Maria's story has touched their lives," Collier said. "I never expected to be threatened for setting up a memorial site."

Collier said she was petrified and worried given her geographic closeness to some of the Marines being investigated for their comments.

"You should be slapped in the face for talking about things that should be left alone. I'm not gonna sit here and watch you talk s--t," a post made from Parikh's MySpace account said. "I will do you like Laurean did if you don't take this page off."

Authorities say Lauterbach was killed by Cpl. Cesar Laurean Dec. 14. She was in the third trimester of a pregnancy at the time of her death and had accused Laurean of rape.

Laurean has been on the run since he fled Onslow County in mid-January. Authorities say Laurean left notes behind with his wife saying Lauterbach killed herself by slicing her own throat and he just buried her body behind the Half Moon home shared by the couple.

Posts attributed to Parikh's MySpace account claim Parikh knows Laurean and supports Laurean's purported version of events including that Lauterbach killed herself.

Lauterbach's autopsy revealed that she died of a blow to the head and cuts made to her neck were done post-mortem.

The section of the memorial site with the posts under investigation has been removed from the Web. Collier said she did not take the posts down but was informed by law-enforcement officials that portion of her site might be temporarily taken down during the investigation.

The memorial for Lauterbach can be viewed at MySpace.com/Maria_Lauterbach_Memorial.



Contact police reporter Lindell Kay at lkay@freedomenc.com or 910-554-8534. To comment on this story or to read others' comments go to jdnews.com.
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Crime-Dreamer
02-12-2008, 11:24 PM
Thank you Davenj. See why I didn't want to post the actual pages and kept saying search them for yourself? It scares me too. That must be why some of them have taken down the photos of themselves in military uniforms on MySpace and Facebook. Posts are gone, photos are gone and whole sites were gone. I don't disbute anything when people tell me I'm wrong. I figure those who are interested will check for themselves. What I had referred to had nothing to do with a yard sale. It was this posting and others.

FlowerChild
02-13-2008, 03:01 AM
DAILY NEWS STAFF
The creator of an Internet memorial site for a pregnant Marine who authorities say was killed by a colleague in mid-December received online death threats from at least two Marines this week.

Communicating "certain language expressing a present determination or intent to wrongfully injure" someone is a violation of military law, according to the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

If such communications were "of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces" then Parikh, Cole and any other Marines involved could potentially face even more trouble, according to Article 134 of the UCMJ.

Collier said she was petrified and worried given her geographic closeness to some of the Marines being investigated for their comments.

"You should be slapped in the face for talking about things that should be left alone. I'm not gonna sit here and watch you talk s--t," a post made from Parikh's MySpace account said. "I will do you like Laurean did if you don't take this page off."

Authorities say Lauterbach was killed by Cpl. Cesar Laurean Dec. 14. She was in the third trimester of a pregnancy at the time of her death and had accused Laurean of rape.

Posts attributed to Parikh's MySpace account claim Parikh knows Laurean and supports Laurean's purported version of events including that Lauterbach killed herself.
(snipped to save space)
_________________


I guess the "stellar" Marine POS Laurean and his newly active duty Marine wife Christine still have their defenders and fans at LeJeune.

What is with these guys - Excess testosterone/steroids? Women in the Marines issues? "I'm pregnant, I'm keeping the baby and you're on the hook for 18 years issues"? These creeps probably never said hello to Maria (if that) and yet they feel they should write death threats and ignorant emails to someone who put up a WEB SITE for a dead woman and her baby. And why are they sticking up for POS Laurean or his supposedly innocent, unaware blind wife? Do they really not believe Laurean murdered a 8.5 mos pregnant Maria and her son Gabriel in cold blood and was such a dumbass Marine he buried her in his own backyard - literally feet from his back door in full view of his house where his child swung on her swingset and his dog played - and to cap off his depravity he threw a couple of PARTIES for his Marine buddies where they enjoyed some Marine bonding, beers, and a campfire circle around a bonfire over his victim's bodies!!!

They should be SICK and ANGRY all right, but at POS Laurean and his wife - not the person who out of the goodness of their heart put up a public online TRIBUTE to Maria and Gabriel. I hope the Marine Corp tracks down every last person who wrote something nasty and not only throws them in the brig, gives them latrine cleaning duty and confines them to base for 9 mos (maybe they will then "give birth" to an improved attitude) BUT also questions them in the "Marine Corp Way" for a few days as to their whereabouts, activities and bank withdrawals from Dec 11th to now.....

I am so disappointed...I really thought the Marine Corp was better than this. They have proven they are badly in need of a complete overhaul and change of policy and attitude from the Top Brass all the way to the fresh shaved grunts in boot camp. They certainly do NOT live up the their motto or their slogan in my eyes - and dare I say this whole sad story makes them look really hypocritical, bigoted and backward and decidedly NOT the branch of the armed forces the "best" young men and women would strive and sacrifice to achieve membership in. And it sure does nothing to assure the parents and spouses of potential Marines that they will be valued and kept as safe as possible by their commanders and their fellow Marines. I though they NEVER left a Marine behind - boy, they sure failed Maria (and Gabriel) and left a Marine behind - killed by a fellow Marine and abandoned to a cold lonely hole...and they didn't even bother to arrest their "stellar" Marine when they had the chance and instead let him run to Mexico from under their nose.

Urh, this whole case makes me furious and so very determined that Maria get justice AND that her death will be the driving force and inspiration for true CHANGE in the Marine Corp so that what happened to Maria and Gabriel NEVER happens again.

My Opinion

davenj
02-13-2008, 08:28 AM
Flower
I understand why you fell the way you do.The whole thing makes me sick.I'm a former Marine and still have friends that are in.Myself and all my buddies mutually agree that CL needs to know what it's like to feel pain.I agree with you that the Marines as well as Onslow County Sheriff dropped the ball.Just try and understand that we're all not like CL and the fools that made the Myspace posts.

Truly
02-13-2008, 09:32 PM
[quote=davenj;

"Shut up or get cut up," a post made in the name of Ron Parikh appeared on the MySpace memorial for Lance Cpl. Maria Lauterbach on Feb. 5.

"You should be slapped in the face for talking about things that should be left alone. I'm not gonna sit here and watch you talk s--t," a post made from Parikh's MySpace account said. "I will do you like Laurean did if you don't take this page off."


__________________
Thanks for the post, davenj. You're one of the few and the proud, and a credit to the nation.

Crime-Dreamer, that took courage to post, and thank you.

Flower-Child, that was one of the most honest and sincere statements I have ever read.

I think that Maria heard the same type of threats. I think she heard them over and over again by other Marines at LeJeune. And they were not idle threats; they followed through. She was not slapped in the face - she was PUNCHED in the face. How many times did she hear "Shut up or get cut up" from this same type of guy on base? "Talking about things that should be left alone...". She spoke up and it got her killed. I think that any Marines who know what happened have been directly ordered to "Shut up or get cut up." And they know that the people who make these threats will follow through. Hence the total silence.

cheko1
02-15-2008, 01:06 AM
Truly,
I agree with your post 100%....

SeriouslySearching
02-16-2008, 01:31 PM
I guess CL is about like Osama Bin Laden...safe from the Marines and prosecution. What a crock!

Mygirlsadie
02-16-2008, 01:40 PM
OMG I sure wish this case would gain media attention again.. Maybe things will focus back on Maria and her baby now that the Cutts trial is pretty much over and Brianna has been found. Sooo many questions still unanswered like was the DNA of the baby ever found to be linked to Cesar? Was Christina involved? Where is Christina by the way? Still nothing on her? A man hunt should be on for Cesar it can't be that HARD to find the guy..come on already!~

MysteryAddict
02-16-2008, 09:32 PM
I guess CL is about like Osama Bin Laden...safe from the Marines and prosecution. What a crock!

SS-
Does it seem to you that the US Marines don't give a damn that one of their Marines killed another of their Marines, buried and burned the body and then took off to pursue a new life?

That's what it looks like to me. I'm not hearing a word on this case anymore in the MSM.

Well, I guess I was naive as far as our military was concerned, but I never thought the U.S. Marines would excuse rape, murder and wish good luck to the perpetrator to get away with the crime, but it looks like that's exactly what is happening here. Nothing is being done- just letting the case go cold.

STEADFAST
02-16-2008, 10:21 PM
SS-
Does it seem to you that the US Marines don't give a damn that one of their Marines killed another of their Marines, buried and burned the body and then took off to pursue a new life?

That's what it looks like to me. I'm not hearing a word on this case anymore in the MSM.

Well, I guess I was naive as far as our military was concerned, but I never thought the U.S. Marines would excuse rape, murder and wish good luck to the perpetrator to get away with the crime, but it looks like that's exactly what is happening here. Nothing is being done- just letting the case go cold.

I haven't seen any evidence that the Marines are excusing Laurean's crimes or wishing him good luck.
I'm not sure what anybody expects the Marines to do at this point. They can't invade Mexico. They can't act as a civilian LE agency.
That would be against the law --we are not a military police state. The NCIS isn't even a Marine command; it's civilian. And the murder is being prosecuted in a civilian jurisdiction by Oslow County, North Carolina because that was the choice of the Oslow County prosecutor; it's his prerogative. The Marines don't own the mainstream media, so they can't control what is reported there.

What exactly is it that people expect the Marines to do. I mean, really, what action is anyone looking for them to take at this juncture?

Truly
02-16-2008, 11:21 PM
I haven't seen any evidence that the Marines are excusing Laurean's crimes or wishing him good luck.
I'm not sure what anybody expects the Marines to do at this point. They can't invade Mexico. They can't act as a civilian LE agency.
That would be against the law --we are not a military police state. The NCIS isn't even a Marine command; it's civilian. And the murder is being prosecuted in a civilian jurisdiction by Oslow County, North Carolina because that was the choice of the Oslow County prosecutor; it's his prerogative. The Marines don't own the mainstream media, so they can't control what is reported there.

What exactly is it that people expect the Marines to do. I mean, really, what action is anyone looking for them to take at this juncture?


I expect the Marines to change the way women are treated in the military. I expect that anyone who supports the USMC will have the humanity and decency to look hard at this case and the many other instances where women have been brutally assaulted by their fellow servicemembers and demand that the climate which encourages this type of brutality be changed.

But, in all honesty, I fully expect that the people who blindly support some fairy-tale notion of the military will continue to wear the blinders and allow the abuse to continue unabated.

What, exactly, do people expect the Marines to do, you ask? Tell the truth. Stand up for Maria. Stand up for justice. Grow a frickken backbone. Stop lying to defend men who assault women.

What do YOU expect of the USMC, steadfast?

SeriouslySearching
02-17-2008, 01:16 AM
I think they could and should send Marine MPs into Mexico to assist in his capture. There is no excuse for him to be still roaming around freely there. I don't call it "invading" Mexico, but they certainly could send people to find him. I don't think they are doing anything at this point.

LE doesn't seem to be getting anywhere either! Have we heard ONE reporter say that LE has been seen in Guadalajara? I know when Mark F. was there...they confirmed that LE hadn't spoken to many people he was able to talk to. They did not see ONE LE officer from the US in the area where he was sighted. What does this tell you?! It tells me they aren't doing a very adequate job of searching...if at all!!

oceanblueeyes
02-24-2008, 10:07 PM
I expect the Marines to change the way women are treated in the military. I expect that anyone who supports the USMC will have the humanity and decency to look hard at this case and the many other instances where women have been brutally assaulted by their fellow service members and demand that the climate which encourages this type of brutality be changed.

But, in all honesty, I fully expect that the people who blindly support some fairy-tale notion of the military will continue to wear the blinders and allow the abuse to continue unabated.

What, exactly, do people expect the Marines to do, you ask? Tell the truth. Stand up for Maria. Stand up for justice. Grow a frickken backbone. Stop lying to defend men who assault women.

What do YOU expect of the USMC, steadfast?

There is nothing whatsoever that shows that the USMC covered up or conspired with anyone against Maria Lauterbach. Not once did she complain to her family that the USMC wasn't treating her fairly. I would much rather stand up for truth BARD and justice and there is nothing showing that the allegations made had any validity to them. Each case must remain intact on its own merits not simply because it is a woman who has alleged a convoluted allegation.

It is not the USMCs fault that they were handed a very iffy rape allegation where even Maria herself made inconsistent and illogical statements. Like our own civilian justice system they must have substantiating evidence to go forward and they were still actively investigating the case. Even knowing that in their files it showed that Maria had made up an outlandish story in the past that even require counseling. Through all that they kept going forward and no telling what other information they had acquired that is in her personnel folder.

They even went beyond what was required of them and moved Maria so she could have daily contact with her VA in case she needed her. If this was to happen in the general society no VA would be at work with us everyday....we can better believe that. In the civilian world in some states a woman has to even pay for their own rape kit when they are alleging rape.

So no........they did not fail to protect her. They have jurisdiction on their own government installations only and not one thing ever happened on that base once the MPO was in place between Cesar and Maria.

Abuse happens in all walks of life to BOTH genders and by BOTH genders. Imo the attitude that it is just applies to women only puts this country back 50 years imo.

It is no more prevalent in the military than in society at large just like it is much less likely that someone in the military will murder someone than the those in the public at large. I read a statistic that there have been 127 murders committed by military personnel that had come back from Afghanistan and Iraq, I think it was over a 5 year period. Now we have around 10,000+ murders per YEAR in our overall population...so it shows the military are rarely the vast killers in our society . And with the military being the largest employer in the world there are bound to be some bad apples like we have in our private sector.

But it is your right to bash them if you want to ......they die everyday so that right is protected for you.

No one failed Maria but the one who took Maria and Gabriel's lives.

Semper Fidelis!!

Tom'sGirl
02-24-2008, 10:18 PM
There is nothing whatsoever that shows that the USMC covered up or conspired with anyone against Maria Lauterbach. Not once did she complain to her family that the USMC wasn't treating her fairly. I would much rather stand up for truth BARD and justice and there is nothing showing that the allegations made had any validity to them. Each case must remain intact on its own merits not simply because it is a woman who has alleged a convoluted allegation.

It is not the USMCs fault that they were handed a very iffy rape allegation where even Maria herself made inconsistent and illogical statements. Like our own civilian justice system they must have substantiating evidence to go forward and they were still actively investigating the case. Even knowing that in their files it showed that Maria had made up an outlandish story in the past that even require counseling. Through all that they kept going forward and no telling what other information they had acquired that is in her personnel folder.

They even went beyond what was required of them and moved Maria so she could have daily contact with her VA in case she needed her. If this was to happen in the general society no VA would be at work with us everyday....we can better believe that. In the civilian world in some states a woman has to even pay for their own rape kit when they are alleging rape.

So no........they did not fail to protect her. They have jurisdiction on their own government installations only and not one thing ever happened on that base once the MPO was in place between Cesar and Maria.

Abuse happens in all walks of life to BOTH genders and by BOTH genders. Imo the attitude that it is just applies to women only puts this country back 50 years imo.

It is no more prevalent in the military than in society at large just like it is much less likely that someone in the military will murder someone than the those in the public at large. I read a statistic that there have been 127 murders committed by military personnel that had come back from Afghanistan and Iraq, I think it was over a 5 year period. Now we have around 10,000+ murders per YEAR in our overall population...so it shows the military are rarely the vast killers in our society . And with the military being the largest employer in the world there are bound to be some bad apples like we have in our private sector.

But it is your right to bash them if you want to ......they die everyday so that right is protected for you.

No one failed Maria but the one who took Maria and Gabriel's lives.

Semper Fidelis!!
Great post, and IMO, right on!

STEADFAST
02-24-2008, 11:51 PM
I think they could and should send Marine MPs into Mexico to assist in his capture. There is no excuse for him to be still roaming around freely there. I don't call it "invading" Mexico, but they certainly could send people to find him. I don't think they are doing anything at this point.



You may not call it "invading Mexico," but the Mexican government would. Mexico is a sovereign nation, and U.S. military personnel cannot legally go inside their borders and circumvent the process of extradition. How would you like it if foreign military forces came into the United States to locate and capture someone who had broken their laws?

As a matter of fact, the Marines could not arrest Laurean in the United States for Maria's murder, either, because he is charged under North Carolina's laws and not the Uniform Code of Military Justice. The 1878 Posse Comitatus Act prohibits the use of the military to execute the civil laws of the United States.

MCDRAW
02-25-2008, 08:13 AM
I don't think that the marines can do anything about Laureen NOW. But I wonder why he wasn't a suspect in the beginning. And if he was a suspect, why the marines didn't have him where they could watch him. They knew he had dual citizenship and he had said he would flee if convicted of rape. I don't know if they could have stopped what happened to Maria but in my opinion they could have stopped him from fleeing.

STEADFAST
02-25-2008, 08:44 AM
I don't think that the marines can do anything about Laureen NOW. But I wonder why he wasn't a suspect in the beginning. And if he was a suspect, why the marines didn't have him where they could watch him. They knew he had dual citizenship and he had said he would flee if convicted of rape. I don't know if they could have stopped what happened to Maria but in my opinion they could have stopped him from fleeing.

I agree. I can understand why they didn't confine him when Maria first went missing, since they believed they had the note from her saying she was leaving. But they should have detained him after that first meeting on base with the sheriff, especially knowing that he had lawyered up.

Jolynna
02-25-2008, 10:10 AM
I don't think that the marines can do anything about Laureen NOW. But I wonder why he wasn't a suspect in the beginning. And if he was a suspect, why the marines didn't have him where they could watch him. They knew he had dual citizenship and he had said he would flee if convicted of rape. I don't know if they could have stopped what happened to Maria but in my opinion they could have stopped him from fleeing.

Did the people "with the power to detain" know CL said he would leave if convicted of the rape? Or had he told his marine friends, who, most likely, kept the information to themselves until "after" everything came out and CL was headed for Mexico?

Jolynna
02-25-2008, 10:17 AM
I agree. I can understand why they didn't confine him when Maria first went missing, since they believed they had the note from her saying she was leaving. But they should have detained him after that first meeting on base with the sheriff, especially knowing that he had lawyered up.

Can you detain someone for getting a lawyer?

LE was reporting almost until the end that this was going to be a case with a good ending and thinking Amy would be found. It did happen (despite how things looked) with Amy Scott and Dan Querzoli, despite cell phones and ID and credit cards being left behind, both of them having cars and no need to borrow another car and Dan and Amy both being in school and exams coming up (that both missed).

oceanblueeyes
02-25-2008, 05:37 PM
I agree. I can understand why they didn't confine him when Maria first went missing, since they believed they had the note from her saying she was leaving. But they should have detained him after that first meeting on base with the sheriff, especially knowing that he had lawyered up.

And by law they have to have probable cause for an arrest and they can't detain someone because they have obtained a lawyer. At that time they had nothing tying him to the disappearance of Maria Lauterbach. They can't detain him simply because he exercised his given right that we all have in this country. If that were true they would arrest all of the people that lawyer up in other cases like Jason Young or Jennifer Wilbanks' fiancé, John but they didn't because they know they have to have probable cause that is going to pass judicial muster when they do and obtaining a lawyer is not against the law nor a reason for an arrest or detainment.

Everything they had pointed to her leaving on her own free will. The note to DD. Taking her personal items with her. The pulling of money out of her account..... buying the bus ticket purchased by Maria. Maria's mother's statements that when Maria felt backed into a corner she would tell lies. All of it pointed to the very good possibility that she was alive and even the media and most message boards at first thought she had left due to the stress she was under.

They cant arrest someone simply because they exercised their rights to obtain and talk with attorneys. Everyone is afforded such right.

Do I wish it had ended differently? Do I wish that Christina Laurean would have called the very day she knew all about this? Absolutely, of course I do but an investigator goes with the evidence they have at the time and they don't arrest people on gut feelings or speculations. Until the letter was turned over they had nothing showing that she had even met with foul play and were fully thinking she was pitching it all and leaving everything behind which I DO think she was. Why she ever decided to come to Laurean's home that day before she departed we may never learn the full story.

It is very easy to become emotional in such a sad crime as this one and want to blame someone but LE doesn't arrest on emotion or suppositions. Had they had evidence that he was connected to her disappearance he would have been arrested then. Until the 11th, they had no such evidence or knowledge. Laurean had been on that base everyday and never missed work since this began in May 07....they had no way of knowing that after all these months he would deviate from that pattern.

The one that let Laurean get away was his wife whom I feel knew all of this much sooner than the day she said she did.

imoo

STEADFAST
02-25-2008, 06:46 PM
Can you detain someone for getting a lawyer?

LE was reporting almost until the end that this was going to be a case with a good ending and thinking Amy would be found. It did happen (despite how things looked) with Amy Scott and Dan Querzoli, despite cell phones and ID and credit cards being left behind, both of them having cars and no need to borrow another car and Dan and Amy both being in school and exams coming up (that both missed).

In the civilian world, you can't detain someone just because they got a lawyer. But a Marine or Navy commander can have anyone under him detained or restricted, just because he thinks it's a wise idea. A couple of days before Laurean took off, I think his C.O. should have been suspicious enough to have him confined for the time being.

oceanblueeyes
02-25-2008, 11:06 PM
Can you detain someone for getting a lawyer?

LE was reporting almost until the end that this was going to be a case with a good ending and thinking Amy would be found. It did happen (despite how things looked) with Amy Scott and Dan Querzoli, despite cell phones and ID and credit cards being left behind, both of them having cars and no need to borrow another car and Dan and Amy both being in school and exams coming up (that both missed).

No you cant legally detain them in the military or the civilian population.

No matter where they are no one in any commanding position is going to detain someone and take away their liberty on a "just cuz" basis.

imoo

STEADFAST
02-26-2008, 02:41 AM
No you cant legally detain them in the military or the civilian population.

No matter where they are no one in any commanding position is going to detain someone and take away their liberty on a "just cuz" basis.

imoo

from About.com:
Unlike the civilian justice system which requires a judge to grant a protective or restraining order, in the military any commissioned officer can impose a condition on liberty on any enlisted member. . .

Authorities cannot impose conditions on liberty on a whim. In order for the protective order to be valid, there must be "reasonable belief" that:

An offense triable by court-martial (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/blmcm.htm) has been committed;
The person to be restrained committed it; and
The restraint ordered is required by the circumstances.
and from the Uniform Code of Military Justice:
"An enlisted member may be ordered into arrest or confinement by any commissioned officer by an order, oral or written, delivered in person or through other persons subject to this chapter. A commanding officer may authorize warrant officers, petty officers, or noncommissioned officers to order enlisted members of his command or subject to his authority into arrest or confinement."

I think that Laurean's case fulfilled the three conditions:
Murder is definitely an offense triable by court-martial (so would be aiding and abetting Maria in an unauthorized absence, so would be raping her.)
There was reason to believe Laurean may have committed at least one of the offenses.
Laurean, being a dual citizen of Mexico could be reasonably considered a flight risk.

Besides all that, I have good reason to know that commanding officers routinely order enlisted personnel into confinement even for the most petty and minor offenses and/or slight suspicions.

davenj
02-26-2008, 10:07 AM
Steadfast is right on.When I was still on active duty if you did something stupid either on base or in town you were at the least confined to the barracks until it was sorted out.It didn't matter if you were married and living off base or not,you were confined to the barracks.Part of that involved physically checking in with the barracks duty every hour and being escorted to and from the chow hall and church services.

I served in the Marines and I'm proud of that fact,but the bottom line is,the Marines dropped the ball big time here,and it cost Maria her life as well as Gabriel's.If the USMC and Onslow County were on the same page from the begining,it might have at the least prevented CL from disappearing.If the USMC had it's head on straight and confined him or transfered him/her to another base Maria and Gabriel would be here today.

The coldness of this whole thing sickens me.The fact that this animal could actually still report to work everyday and act like nothing was wrong is disturbing to say the least.I hope is hunted down and caught,hopefully in the US so they can jam a needle into his arm.Rant over.

oceanblueeyes
02-26-2008, 01:46 PM
from About.com:
Unlike the civilian justice system which requires a judge to grant a protective or restraining order, in the military any commissioned officer can impose a condition on liberty on any enlisted member. . .

Authorities cannot impose conditions on liberty on a whim. In order for the protective order to be valid, there must be "reasonable belief" that:

An offense triable by court-martial (http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinfo/mcm/blmcm.htm) has been committed;
The person to be restrained committed it; and
The restraint ordered is required by the circumstances.
and from the Uniform Code of Military Justice:
"An enlisted member may be ordered into arrest or confinement by any commissioned officer by an order, oral or written, delivered in person or through other persons subject to this chapter. A commanding officer may authorize warrant officers, petty officers, or noncommissioned officers to order enlisted members of his command or subject to his authority into arrest or confinement."

I think that Laurean's case fulfilled the three conditions:
Murder is definitely an offense triable by court-martial (so would be aiding and abetting Maria in an unauthorized absence, so would be raping her.)
There was reason to believe Laurean may have committed at least one of the offenses.
Laurean, being a dual citizen of Mexico could be reasonably considered a flight risk.

Besides all that, I have good reason to know that commanding officers routinely order enlisted personnel into confinement even for the most petty and minor offenses and/or slight suspicions.

But maintaining such order is not done because one has obtained a lawyer which is every citizens right including those in the military.

They had no reason to detain him. All of their records showed that from the very beginning of the May 07 allegations he continued to report for duty as expected. He still preformed all of his duties to their expectations. During this time period he took 10 day leave only to return to his duty station in a timely manner. He did not violate the MPO order and ML told the MC she did not fear CL.

At the time that he asked and received permission to speak with his attorneys the MC, NCIS or OCSD had no evidence that Mary Lauterbach's disappearance was connected to Laurean. They fully felt with the evidence they had in hand that she had left the Corps on her own free will.

That is what they had.....and there was nothing there for a Commander to restrict his liberty and to keep him from going to his home that was off base. As the link says...they can't do it on a whim.

It was no where near the Court Martial stage........the Article 32 hearing hadn't even commenced yet.

The USMC had no knowledge that any murder had occurred until January 11 when handed the note by CSL.

imoo

STEADFAST
02-26-2008, 09:59 PM
But maintaining such order is not done because one has obtained a lawyer which is every citizens right including those in the military.

They had no reason to detain him. All of their records showed that from the very beginning of the May 07 allegations he continued to report for duty as expected. He still preformed all of his duties to their expectations. During this time period he took 10 day leave only to return to his duty station in a timely manner. He did not violate the MPO order and ML told the MC she did not fear CL.

At the time that he asked and received permission to speak with his attorneys the MC, NCIS or OCSD had no evidence that Mary Lauterbach's disappearance was connected to Laurean. They fully felt with the evidence they had in hand that she had left the Corps on her own free will.

That is what they had.....and there was nothing there for a Commander to restrict his liberty and to keep him from going to his home that was off base. As the link says...they can't do it on a whim.

It was no where near the Court Martial stage........the Article 32 hearing hadn't even commenced yet.

The USMC had no knowledge that any murder had occurred until January 11 when handed the note by CSL.

imoo

I must admit, you have a point. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part to think that someone in his command could have become suspicious of him in those last couple of days before he took off. It's terrible to think that someone that evil could fool absolutely everyone around him.

btbsmith
02-28-2008, 02:35 PM
The Sherrif and his group is who really dropped the ball in the end - Cesar missed an appointment with tem the day before he fled - they could have easily stopped him from fleeing - either by coming to get him for an interview or staking out his place. Just plain stupid, especially in that LE notes on the warrants indicate they considered foul play very likely from the start of the missing persons case. They could have pushed harder to contact all pertinent MC orgs (chain of command, MPs, NCIS) from the start. They only made weak attempts. Any LE around a military base would know these orgs should at least be contacted. Any plain citizen could figure this out very quick if they really wanted to contact folks on base about an individual from the base. MC messed up early by dragging it out, but LE let Cesar go.

Truly
02-28-2008, 09:19 PM
The Sherrif and his group is who really dropped the ball in the end - Cesar missed an appointment with tem the day before he fled - they could have easily stopped him from fleeing - either by coming to get him for an interview or staking out his place. Just plain stupid, especially in that LE notes on the warrants indicate they considered foul play very likely from the start of the missing persons case. They could have pushed harder to contact all pertinent MC orgs (chain of command, MPs, NCIS) from the start. They only made weak attempts. Any LE around a military base would know these orgs should at least be contacted. Any plain citizen could figure this out very quick if they really wanted to contact folks on base about an individual from the base. MC messed up early by dragging it out, but LE let Cesar go.

It is completely illogical to suggest that any civilian Sheriff should know all the ins-and-outs of the heirarchy of the military, and which specific hoops are required to be jumped through before the Marines on that base will cooperate with an investigation. The Marine Corps commanders withheld from the Sheriff's office any information regarding the rape charges against Laurean.

I don't blame the Sheriff; he had the horrible task of recovering the bodies of Maria and Gabriel. He did not go to the big parties on their graves on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve which Laurean threw for his 'buddies'.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4130098
"Brown said commanders at Camp LeJeune were not aware of the rape accusation until he told them about it on January 9."
"He also explained to the military commanders that Laurean's lawyers were preventing police from questioning him."
"The probe into Lauterbach's accusations had been handled in a low, or 'downhill' level, Brown said.

Sheriff Brown was deeply moved about finding Maria and Gabriel so brutally murdered, burned, and buried. I have not seen a similiar human response from anyone on that base. All I've seen is :liar: .

philamena
02-29-2008, 09:25 PM
Looks like this case is gong cold.
Makes me sad, mad and furious that the US Marines, US govt and the Mexican govt can't find a Marine who killed a pregnant Marine and cooked her and her baby in a bbq pit,:furious: :furious: :furious: ON AMERICAN SOIL!:mad:

Tom'sGirl
02-29-2008, 09:31 PM
Looks like this case is gong cold.
Makes me sad, mad and furious that the US Marines, US govt and the Mexican govt can't find a Marine who killed a pregnant Marine and cooked her and her baby in a bbq pit,:furious: :furious: :furious: ON AMERICAN SOIL!:mad:
Hang in there philamena, don't think it's going cold, some things just take time.

STEADFAST
02-29-2008, 09:57 PM
Looks like this case is gong cold.
Makes me sad, mad and furious that the US Marines, US govt and the Mexican govt can't find a Marine who killed a pregnant Marine and cooked her and her baby in a bbq pit,:furious: :furious: :furious: ON AMERICAN SOIL!:mad:

It's maddening, isn't it? How could he be this hard to find? How big is the reward? Maybe it's not big enough.

Tom'sGirl
02-29-2008, 10:04 PM
It's maddening, isn't it? How could he be this hard to find? How big is the reward? Maybe it's not big enough.
Reward is only $25,000

philamena
03-01-2008, 12:03 AM
Hang in there philamena, don't think it's going cold, some things just take time.


Hey Tom's girl,
Sorry to be such a downer. I thought Cesar would be back in the US in jail by now. I never hear this case mentioned on cable news anymore. I hope people haven't lost interest in this case.

philamena
03-01-2008, 12:05 AM
It's maddening, isn't it? How could he be this hard to find? How big is the reward? Maybe it's not big enough.
STEADFAST,
Yes, it is maddening. The beautiful Marine and her unborn baby deserve more than this. They deserve Justice. I know it takes time, but if Cesar is still in Mexico, imo the chance of him being found is slim to none. His 'brothers' are hiding him and hiding him good.

oceanblueeyes
03-02-2008, 09:40 PM
I must admit, you have a point. Maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part to think that someone in his command could have become suspicious of him in those last couple of days before he took off. It's terrible to think that someone that evil could fool absolutely everyone around him.

Yes, I think it is terrible too and it is very hard to not look at this with overwrought emotions but they really had nothing to hold him on. All the cards seemed to stack in his favor.

I am not even convinced that he is in Mexico. Strange the only ones that have said he is there is his own family and no other person in Mexico.

I keep thinking about James Sullivan and how long it took to bring him to justice for hiring a hitman to murder his wife. It was 19 years and 6 of those years there was an earth-wide manhunt too yet when found in Thailand it took over 6 years to get him back to the US.

I think if they find Laurean it will be when they are looking for another fugitive.

imoo

oceanblueeyes
03-02-2008, 10:08 PM
It is completely illogical to suggest that any civilian Sheriff should know all the ins-and-outs of the hierarchy of the military, and which specific hoops are required to be jumped through before the Marines on that base will cooperate with an investigation. The Marine Corps commanders withheld from the Sheriff's office any information regarding the rape charges against Laurean.

I don't blame the Sheriff; he had the horrible task of recovering the bodies of Maria and Gabriel. He did not go to the big parties on their graves on Christmas Eve and New Years Eve which Laurean threw for his 'buddies'.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4130098
"Brown said commanders at Camp LeJeune were not aware of the rape accusation until he told them about it on January 9."
"He also explained to the military commanders that Laurean's lawyers were preventing police from questioning him."
"The probe into Lauterbach's accusations had been handled in a low, or 'downhill' level, Brown said.

Sheriff Brown was deeply moved about finding Maria and Gabriel so brutally murdered, burned, and buried. I have not seen a similar human response from anyone on that base. All I've seen is :liar: .

There has been so much misinformation published about this case.

Of course the USMC did know about the rape allegations........they were the ones that turned it over to NCIS for investigation and it was being investigated and proceeding toward an Article 32 and still is being investigated. The rape allegation is handled judicially strictly by NCIS and the Unit Commander not the local police department. The alleged rape occurred on base not in the civilian population. Sheriff Brown has no jurisdiction over any of the military bases there just as the USMC has no legal jurisdiction over the population at large living in the county.

Sheriff Brown's investigative team did have Laurean's name on 12-19-07 however it was given by the MC to a lower OCSD detective and he put it in his report. The problem was SB was so busy by then when all of this blew up into national media attention that he had not read his notes that his detective had given him. SB later came out and verified that to the press that Laurean's name was in his detective's police report.

The military commanders cannot override anyone's rights by making them speak to police or stop them from obtaining a lawyer.

It is obvious for whatever reasons there was much muddiness and cloudiness in Maria's allegations and Maria is the one that put those things in play. Why she made inconsistent statements and readjusted her statements I guess we will never know but there were many things wrong with the case and we have to remember that the MC knew before this that Maria had told absolutely an outlandish story about her dad killing her brother with a lamp, which landed her six months in counseling and who knows what else they had in their file.

Personally I don't see any evidence she was raped and I believe they had a relationship that went bad. I do believe she was very attached to her family especially her mother and could only tell her mom a story where she would accept it where Mary would not pass judgment on Maria for not only having sex without marriage but one with a married man who already had a child. She even states to the MC that the pregnancy is not from the rape.

imoo

Truly
03-03-2008, 09:35 PM
It is obvious for whatever reasons there was much muddiness and cloudiness in Maria's allegations and Maria is the one that put those things in play. Why she made inconsistent statements and readjusted her statements I guess we will never know but there were many things wrong with the case and we have to remember that the MC knew before this that Maria had told absolutely an outlandish story about her dad killing her brother with a lamp, which landed her six months in counseling and who knows what else they had in their file.

Personally I don't see any evidence she was raped and I believe they had a relationship that went bad. I do believe she was very attached to her family especially her mother and could only tell her mom a story where she would accept it where Mary would not pass judgment on Maria for not only having sex without marriage but one with a married man who already had a child. She even states to the MC that the pregnancy is not from the rape.

imoo

That line of reasoning is known as blame-and-shame-the-victim. What do you figure happened next? Did the woman who had lied and sinned her way into this mess grab a crowbar and bash her own skull in? And did she then crawl out to the backyard, dig her own grave, set herself on fire, send out party invitations and lead a rousing chorus of 'For He's A Jolly Good Fellow' in honor of the stellar Laurean?

Or is it more likely that after being raped, impregnated by the rapist, punched in the face, had her car keyed, etc., that she was threatened that if she intended to go forth with prosecuting the rape, she would be murdered?

Truly
03-03-2008, 09:40 PM
I am not even convinced that he is in Mexico. Strange the only ones that have said he is there is his own family and no other person in Mexico.




Now, that I agree with 100%. I, personally, don't think he ever left the base.

The only federal document relating to this case is a criminal complaint where his name is misspelled as Leurean.

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2008/images/01/17/fed.complaint.pdf

close_enough
03-04-2008, 01:49 PM
Hang in there philamena, don't think it's going cold, some things just take time.

i was going to post, pretty much, the same thing Phil did, then i read your post, TG...they need to find Cesar!!!

close_enough
03-04-2008, 01:58 PM
snipped -

There has been so much misinformation published about this case.

It is obvious for whatever reasons there was much muddiness and cloudiness in Maria's allegations and Maria is the one that put those things in play. Why she made inconsistent statements and readjusted her statements I guess we will never know but there were many things wrong with the case and we have to remember that the MC knew before this that Maria had told absolutely an outlandish story about her dad killing her brother with a lamp, which landed her six months in counseling and who knows what else they had in their file.

Personally I don't see any evidence she was raped and I believe they had a relationship that went bad. I do believe she was very attached to her family especially her mother and could only tell her mom a story where she would accept it where Mary would not pass judgment on Maria for not only having sex without marriage but one with a married man who already had a child. She even states to the MC that the pregnancy is not from the rape.
imoo

you're absolutely right.......it's exactly how i see it also

now it doesn't make Maria a bad person....she got in over her head with the lying, IMO....when she flip-flopped on her story, of course the MC were suspicious, but they didn't stop investigating.......we have no idea what kind of conversation, with Cesar, led to her death, but i think when she wasn't able to get Cesar to leave his wife & child, Maria 'blew up', gave Cesar some kind of ultimatum (sp) & he killed her......

hard to believe he's still out there somewhere, & can't be found:mad:

SeriouslySearching
03-04-2008, 05:40 PM
I guess the MC don't have a great track record with finding murderers within their group either. We have all heard the stories of how rape victims are treated by all of the branches of the service...so I am not going to say that Maria did or did not get caught up in "lies" or if she changed her stories because of the pressure from her higher ups. Stellar is a word they used to describe that scumbag who killed a woman and his unborn child then burn their lifeless bodies!! Kinda makes me ill to even type it. They used this term AFTER they knew what he had done to them!

STEADFAST
03-04-2008, 09:34 PM
Stellar is a word they used to describe that scumbag who killed a woman and his unborn child then burn their lifeless bodies!! Kinda makes me ill to even type it. They used this term AFTER they knew what he had done to them!

They were quoting his record, SS, in the context of identifying him and giving a short bio for the reporters. They did not say that they consider him a stellar Marine NOW.

"This was his first duty station after completing his required training. He had not deployed in support of the Global War on Terrorism. He was meritoriously promoted to Corporal on September 2nd, 2006, and his record indicates he was a stellar Marine."

About Maria, the spokesman said,
"This was her first duty station after completing her required training. She had not deployed in support of the Global War on Terrorism. She was promoted to Lance Corporal on February 1st, 2007, and her record indicates she was a solid Marine."

He's just quoting from their records. "Meritorious promotion," "stellar," and "solid" are words used in the Marine performance-review forms.

SeriouslySearching
03-04-2008, 11:48 PM
Yes, but it should have been left out of that press conference. There was absolutely NO reason to have included it...particularly when they were going to do a disservice to her by reading her's afterward. It was in poor taste.

Truly
03-05-2008, 01:35 AM
That was the only press conference. The Marine Corps has not made any further statement.

She was a Marine.

He still is.:sick:

Mygirlsadie
03-05-2008, 01:42 AM
They are not doing enough to find this man. I am afraid that after the media attention wore off they just let him slip away.. The whole thing is BS. These are marines they can find him! They are trained to hunt down and find terrorists,insurgents etc. in countries they never set foot in before..Believe me they could find this guy! What's up with the wife? I hope they are still keeping an eye on that one too..I never felt she was innocent in all this by any means.

Truly
03-05-2008, 03:20 AM
They recalled the wife to active duty. Immediately. And he is not exactly MIA. They are not looking. They know where they are.

They're both probably in Iraq earning extra stellar stars murdering baby puppies. :mad:

Crime-Dreamer
03-11-2008, 11:56 PM
Local congressman Mike Turner has sent a letter to the Marine Corps asking for answers in the case. It was reported by Dayton TV station today. Link is on Lauren in Mexico thread. Corp responded that a congressional inquiry is always serious.

SeriouslySearching
03-12-2008, 12:14 AM
Thanks, Crime-Dreamer. I had missed it! It is good to know someone is putting some pressure on them.

Crime-Dreamer
03-12-2008, 12:47 PM
Link to JDNews.com article about Congressman's letter to Marines. More info about contents of letter.

http://www.jdnews.com/news/marine_55423___article.html/lauterbach_turner.html

Crime-Dreamer
03-12-2008, 12:50 PM
JDNews.com article marking two months since CL has been on the run. Article posted today.

http://www.jdnews.com/news/laurean_55422___article.html/investigators_mexico.html

Crime-Dreamer
03-12-2008, 01:08 PM
Congressman Turner's full letter to Marine Corp. Turner is a member of the Armed Forces Committee and the Congressman for the district where the Lauterbach family lives. He says he was told on the phone that the matter was concluded. He states in the letter that he disagrees and wants answers to the questions listed in the letter. This is from an NBC national news site. Looks like the national news is picking it up now.

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/news.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2008-03-11-0020.html#s

davenj
03-12-2008, 08:37 PM
Just read the first article Crime Dreamer posted.It says that Maria was staying off base with Jennifer Renna,I thought that she was staying at Sgt Durham's??Am I missing something here?

Tom'sGirl
03-12-2008, 08:47 PM
Just read the first article Crime Dreamer posted.It says that Maria was staying off base with Jennifer Renna,I thought that she was staying at Sgt Durham's??Am I missing something here?
The article says "spring of 2007".

Maria moved into Daniel Durhams's house on Nov. 5th.

davenj
03-12-2008, 09:59 PM
The article says "spring of 2007".

Maria moved into Daniel Durhams's house on Nov. 5th.

Got it.I'm a little slow tonight.What I don't get is if you read the timeline,Maria requested permission to move off base to get a home ready for her baby.Was she living off base with Jennifer Renna,moved back into the barracks and then moved back off,into sgt Durham's?

Tom'sGirl
03-12-2008, 10:11 PM
Got it.I'm a little slow tonight.What I don't get is if you read the timeline,Maria requested permission to move off base to get a home ready for her baby.Was she living off base with Jennifer Renna,moved back into the barracks and then moved back off,into sgt Durham's?
From reading several sources it appears the Renner's may have rented out a room for some period of time to Maria. But yes, she also maintained a bunk in the barracks. This is not uncommon for Military personnel to do this.

Here's another link where Ms. Renner is mentioned (one article says Renna, another says Renner, but same person)

Jenny Renner said she met Lauterbach in December 2006, while her husband was stationed at Lejeune. The couple now live in Hagerstown, Md.
http://tinyurl.com/2h35ok (http://tinyurl.com/2h35ok)

davenj
03-13-2008, 08:05 AM
Thanks Tom's Girl!I was a tad slow yesterday,long day at work and all.When I was still active duty USMC the standard procedure was that you had to be married to live off base.Kep in mind that I left active duty in Jan 97 though.Thanks again for the link.

STEADFAST
04-07-2008, 04:01 PM
Slain Marine’s Mother Fights For Answers, Justice

http://www.whiotv.com/news/15811003/detail.html

"Rep. Mike Turner has been trying to press Marine investigators for answers for the family and to protect other Marine women who report similar incidents.

One of the questions that Turner wants investigators at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina to answer is why Laurean did not have to submit any DNA during the investigation."

I think it's a good thing that Rep. Turner and Maria's family are demanding answers. I can answer this one question of Turner's, though. Laurean didn't have to submit DNA during the investigation because all military personnel's DNA is already on file. The investigators couldn't use his DNA in the rape case because Maria reported the rape so long after it happened.

Mygirlsadie
04-07-2008, 05:23 PM
Yes, thank God for that!





Slain Marine’s Mother Fights For Answers, Justice

http://www.whiotv.com/news/15811003/detail.html

"Rep. Mike Turner has been trying to press Marine investigators for answers for the family and to protect other Marine women who report similar incidents.

One of the questions that Turner wants investigators at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina to answer is why Laurean did not have to submit any DNA during the investigation."

I think it's a good thing that Rep. Turner and Maria's family are demanding answers. I can answer this one question of Turner's, though. Laurean didn't have to submit DNA during the investigation because all military personnel's DNA is already on file. The investigators couldn't use his DNA in the rape case because Maria reported the rape so long after it happened.

Crime-Dreamer
04-10-2008, 03:31 PM
Congressman Mike Turner's letter to the Marines has been answered. It was front page of the Dayton Daily News today. Here is the Web site posting of that story.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/04/10/ddn041008turner.html

Here is the posting of a followup story from the Dayton Daily News today.

Marines Didn't Think Lauren when Lauterbach went Missing
http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/04/09/ddn041008turnerinside.html?cxntlid=inform_artr

Dayton Daily News Opinion
Marines Owe Lauterbachs Whole Truth
Explaination of who is handeling what investigations
http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/opinions/editorial/2008/03/23/ddn032308mariaxxeb.html?cxntlid=inform_artr