Specifically hikers or any female alone?

[Tallytowngirl]

Seriously Searching said to start new threads when we start to hijack old ones (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1964220#post1964220), so here it is (not that I expect anybody to join in)

Cheryl Dunlap was an unusual victim for GMH, because she was in a car...with a flat tire...I do not think she was hiking, though her body was found in the forest....
I guess he just got victims wherever he found them...what a sicko...

Sorry, I guess I wasn't clear - I meant for me the connection to hiking was Meredith, the Bryants, possibly Rossana Miliani (if Hilton grabbed her, it was while she was in Cherokee to hike)

I don't think Cheryl was in her car, I think she was hiking along the road (which runs through/along the Apalachicola). Her purse was still in her car, which was found locked. Friends said she wouldn't have taken her purse (maybe it was one of those really big ones, so she just grabbed her wallet and left the purse) Anyway, it leads me to think she got out and started walking. So no, she wasn't out in the woods on a trail, but she was in an area with few houses and lots of forest.

Meanwhile, Hilton himself spent an awful lot of time alone on the trails - so it might more be having his victims wander into his territory, rather than him seeking them out...

He said with Meredeth he was looking for a female alone - and Cheryl fit that description for sure. Especially if she'd left her vehicle. Or even had gotten out of it to look at the tire and he happened along at that very instant - he offered to give her a lift, she locked her car and got in with him... With Cheryl, I think it was that an opportunity presented itself to him with a big bow on top - he probably wasn't looking for a victim, just happened on a situation too good to pass up.

I rather think Hilton has been doing this sort of thing for years, and there are a lot more missing women (and possibly older men) who were his victims. The whole story isn't told yet.

[Native New Yorker]

Oh, I totally agree with you...she was an opportunity for him, no doubt about that...Thanks for starting the new thread.
Someone somewhere else mentioned GMH having friends. I do not think he ever had friends...I think he felt that he was better than everyone else, and had contempt for most people. That is also why he would not have ever had an accomplice...this monster worked alone, and preyed on the weak and defenseless.

It was not just that he was stronger than most women ( looked as if he worked out, to me), but he would have overwhelmed them with his fierceness and rage, which most of us are not prepared to deal with...most women and elderly folks would just cringe at those behaviors....
Meredith fought him the hardest....and because of her ( and LE) he was caught...if she had just meekly gone along with him, given him the PIN #, we would likely not be on this board, and she would still be among the legions of missing persons.

And, yes, I have no doubt that his victims were many....:furious:

[GlitchWizard]

I was told by the Wakulla County SO that there was zero physical evidence that Dunlap was taken from her car.

I don't imagine she was much of a hiker - but if she were the one to be in the car when it got a flat tire, it's only a mile to walk to Glenda's to use the phone (if she had no cellphone.)

Really, though, it's quite a bit of traffic for no one to have seen anything that day. I'm thinking she wasn't the one driving when the car got the flat.

[SeriouslySearching]

What if he caused the flat?

[panglossian]

Maybe, in his mind, he categorized his victims in a different way than we can conceptualize. Sure, lone female is one aspect and hiker is another, but I think he has been at this a long time as you do. I think it evolved or morphed to using forest cover, and females/ hikers are the end product that we are seeing. Mr. Bryant seems the exception or a necessity, but GMH may have been losing strength over time and become unable to subdue men any longer.
Could his confrontational behavior been compensating for his perception of his loss of strength, real or imagined?
If he had been medicating himself, with a big "if", legally or not, some of that stuff does affect muscular strength.

Thank you for this thread- clearly, we have more to consider and express on this topic.

[Native New Yorker]

I think that along with the hiking M.O. that he had a prior and extensive history of using his dog as a lure in other public areas...

But most of all I think that he had years of using his vans as the method of finding victims on the road...hitchhikers, broken down cars...probably went out "hunting" for those pretty often.
I agree that the hiking was more recent, perhaps as his MS was getting worse he had to do his hunting closer to home....

[FLMom]

I was told by the Wakulla County SO that there was zero physical evidence that Dunlap was taken from her car.

I don't imagine she was much of a hiker - but if she were the one to be in the car when it got a flat tire, it's only a mile to walk to Glenda's to use the phone (if she had no cellphone.)

Really, though, it's quite a bit of traffic for no one to have seen anything that day. I'm thinking she wasn't the one driving when the car got the flat.

I was going to post the same response about Glenda's being right there, and the fact that there is so much traffic on Highway 319.

So that leaves the question. . . just where was she picked up? Not an avid outdoors woman, by any description I've seen. Did she maybe stop for gas at Glenda's? I haven't seen that one asked or answered anywhere. Reason I ask is the thought that he could have put something under her tire to make it go flat (something as simple as a nail sticking up), sat at Glenda's in his van for a few minutes, then just headed down the road until her saw her broken down. This same thing could have happened if she'd stopped somewhere in Crawfordville for gas. Just took longer for the air to leak out of the tire.

Scenario two: He got her at her house or leaving her house, took her in his van to Hwy 20, dumped her body there and then did what? Drive back to her house, pick up her car and drive it over the Wakulla/Leon County line to screw with LE? But his MO isn't neighborhoods, it's state forests, so I'm perplexed.

As bad as this sounds, with all of the good fortune and dumb luck that Hilton had on his killing spree, the randomness of the tire going flat when he's driving it just doesn't ring as possible to me.

Sorry for the hijack, but this stuff has been bugging me.

[Native New Yorker]

Very simple...she got a flat, a real flat, he stopped to "help her", offered to take her to get help, she refused, he grabbed her.....

[FLMom]

Very simple...she got a flat, a real flat, he stopped to "help her", offered to take her to get help, she refused, he grabbed her.....

Yes, and I'd agree. . . but LE is pretty insistent that there's no evidence that she was even even in her car. Your scenario seems right to me, but LE is in disagreement.

I travel Hwy 319 several times a week. Whether it's morning or afternoon, there are always cars nearby. It's the main road in and out of Crawfordville. Not only that, but between Glenda's and where the car was found is New Light Church Road, where there are MANY homes, albeit not right at that corner, but lots of traffic coming in and out.

She would have had to willingly get into his van with him. My theory, that I've held from the beginning, is that she somehow knew him as a friend of a friend kind of deal. I just don't see her hopping into that van with a stranger. Churches are really big around here in helping out with the downtrodden. . . fishermen, families messed up by Hurricane Dennis, drifters coming through. Churches. And church played a big huge part in Cheryl's life.

If he grabbed her and yanked her into the van, there would have been some sort of commotion. Everyone is in everyone else's Kool-Aid around here. If some Bubba had seen this happen, he'd have been pulled over defending her honor with a shotgun. If a woman had seen it happen, she'd be following the van with a cell phone to LE and a lead foot. The logistics would be him knocking her unconscious, pulling her into the van and loading her up. My feeling is that he wouldn't have time to do this with all of the traffic. Someone would have seen it happen.

So I'm still shrugging down here, and wondering.

[DeltaDawn]

What time of day do they think the abduction of Cheryl took place?

The reason I ask is if this road is an unlit road, in the darkness it would be hard for a passing car to see exactly what was going on and they may have felt someone was merely helping her.

[panglossian]

I think Native New Yorker's theory of the dog lure might have been in play here. Say you are both right and she was approached by the van. He could have pulled alongside with an offer to take her down the road, but she'd have to put up with his big ol' buddy dog, Dandy, here. Again, older man with his dog scheme. I would not be astonished to learn that he had passed her walking, turned around and pretended to just see her. I recall a hiker's journal entry describing similar behavior with the van.
BTW-did LE say she had a flat tire?

[panglossian]

Never mind the flat tire question-I was unable to access that link in the other thread for some reason. Had a flat tire.

[Tallytowngirl]

There are a lot of puzzles about Cheryl's car... One is that it was parked on the south side - heading toward Crawfordville. I've heard it was found on the far side of the ditch by the road, a good 20 feet from the pavement. (maybe that's reason the LE originally said that they thought the car was "placed" there? I think they assumed she wouldn't have put it so far from the road herself?)

Now, Hilton may have moved the car to get it further off the road, make it less noticeable, after he'd gotten her into his van. On the other hand, that adds time at the crime scene. And why lock it and leave her purse behind if he's the one that moved it? It's all very strange...

She was last seen / heard from (?) on Saturday morning. She was missed on Sunday, her car was found on Monday. I don't know if anybody knows when exactly she went missing. So it could be that darkness did help hide the crime. No, no streetlights along there.

Also, I don't know that anybody noticed the car sitting there between Saturday and Monday. Glitchwizard or FLMom - have you heard?

[Tallytowngirl]

And don't forget the long bed black pickup truck they're looking for. I guess they had originally thought it had something to do with the crime, but with Hilton being what he is, now I guess they think the pick up truck driver may have seen something...

[aj1020]

And why lock it and leave her purse behind if he's the one that moved it?

I find it hard to believe that Hilton was ever even in her car - or near her car for that matter. If he was in her car, he surely would have taken her purse, or ransacked it to look for money or credit/debit cards. I think it's possible that she got a flat tire, parked her car, locked her purse inside, and went walking down the road. Maybe Hilton didn't even know she had a car parked down the road - if he did, I would think he would have taken her back to the car to get whatever valuables she may have left inside. It is all very strange.

[FLMom]

Bolding in red is mine. . . . .

What time of day do they think the abduction of Cheryl took place?

The reason I ask is if this road is an unlit road, in the darkness it would be hard for a passing car to see exactly what was going on and they may have felt someone was merely helping her.

Cheryl last left a message for a friend late morning. The friend tried to return the call and the cell seemed dead. IIRC, the friend said that Cheryl was bad about keeping her phone charged. She was going to the library at FSU in downtown Tallahassee to email some pictures to one of her sons.

I think Native New Yorker's theory of the dog lure might have been in play here. Say you are both right and she was approached by the van. He could have pulled alongside with an offer to take her down the road, but she'd have to put up with his big ol' buddy dog, Dandy, here. Again, older man with his dog scheme.

And Cheryl was a dog person as she owned a Chihuahua. But can you imagine what the inside of that van looked and smelled like? That's one reason I can't see her willingly getting into the van.

I would not be astonished to learn that he had passed her walking, turned around and pretended to just see her. I recall a hiker's journal entry describing similar behavior with the van.

Very likely scenario, if the prior acts are true. Hikers have a kinship with other hikers, and might hop a ride with another fellow hiker. That's what bugs me. Cheryl was in her element of Crawfordville, friends just a phone call away on a afternoon of errands. There was no reason for her to be in a hurry to get anywhere, if you know what I mean. No pressing issue for her to not just walk barely a mile back down the road.

There are a lot of puzzles about Cheryl's car... One is that it was parked on the south side - heading toward Crawfordville. I've heard it was found on the far side of the ditch by the road, a good 20 feet from the pavement. (maybe that's reason the LE originally said that they thought the car was "placed" there? I think they assumed she wouldn't have put it so far from the road herself?)

From what I understand, there were never any sightings of her at FSU that day. The car was pointed as if she were going towards Crawfordville. If she was in the car and got the flat, maybe she felt it flopping and went to do a u-turn to go back to the store? Odd place to do it, but in an emergency situation it's a possibility. Maybe she couldn't maneuver it that well with a flat, or drove well WELL off the road to get to where the ground would be flat? Dunno.

Now, Hilton may have moved the car to get it further off the road, make it less noticeable, after he'd gotten her into his van. On the other hand, that adds time at the crime scene. And why lock it and leave her purse behind if he's the one that moved it? It's all very strange...

There wasn't really a "less noticeable" to parking the car there. If anything, it'd be a bit more obvious. You'd think if HE was the one who'd left it there, he would have done what every other con does. . leave the doors unlocked and the key in the ignition so someone else would steal it.

She was last seen / heard from (?) on Saturday morning. She was missed on Sunday, her car was found on Monday. I don't know if anybody knows when exactly she went missing. So it could be that darkness did help hide the crime. No, no streetlights along there.

The best guess is Saturday afternoon. I think maybe the reason they think that is the Chihuahua at home. Maybe LE saw that it hadn't been walked or fed, and that's how they decided on Saturday for sure? Again, dunno.

Also, I don't know that anybody noticed the car sitting there between Saturday and Monday. Glitchwizard or FLMom - have you heard?

I haven't heard any scuttlebutt. . . I've just been going by what LE had to say. Hmmm.

I find it hard to believe that Hilton was ever even in her car - or near her car for that matter. If he was in her car, he surely would have taken her purse, or ransacked it to look for money or credit/debit cards. I think it's possible that she got a flat tire, parked her car, locked her purse inside, and went walking down the road. Maybe Hilton didn't even know she had a car parked down the road - if he did, I would think he would have taken her back to the car to get whatever valuables she may have left inside. It is all very strange.

I'll have to go back and look, but I think she had her wallet with her, but her purse what still in the car. IIRC, her sunglasses were gone too.

[FLMom]

This is snipped from Cheryl's thread, to answer previous questions.

"Dunlap, 46, is 5-foot-4 with brown hair and brown eyes. She was last seen at her Crawfordville home Dec. 1. She didn’t show up for church the next day. She was reported missing that Monday when she didn’t show up for work at the Thagard Student Health Center at Florida State University.

Her car was discovered Dec. 3 on the south shoulder of U.S. Highway 319. It had one flat tire. Investigators have not released any more information on the car or its contents."

[dragonfly]

FLMom, I agree with you I think that Cheryl left her car. I read the reports that say it was determined that she had a blow out...not just a flat tire.

That might explain the position that her car was found it. She was attempting to stear the car when it was out of control. It might have have ended up way off the road.

Once the car was stop, she couldn't reposition it with a flat tire. She tucked her purse up under the seat. ( I do this and alot of women do this...when they plan to leave the car and secure their purse.) She must have either taken her wallet or maybe just her debit card in hand. The car doors were locked so she must have also taken her keys.

Just how she met up with Hilton or how he got her into his van is still a mystery to me, but I believe she left her car by herself.

[DeltaDawn]

I thought I had read oringinally that her car was locked with both her purse and keys in the car. If that is the case I thought that was what made LE oringally think that foul play was involved. I could be wrong though.

But back to the subject of this thread....did he just prey on hikers ..no..I think Hilton was able to ascertain vics very quickly, by their actions, speech and situation. I believe he has done this for many years and was very astute at sizing up possible prey in no time flat. I think that there are many vics out there and we need someone in LE to get involved with him that is able to BS thier way into his confidence and find out who, where and when these other crimes took place. He didn't just start this up at age 61 because he needed cash..he has been doing this, in my opinion, since his mid 20's on. And he would have been more prolific in his 30's and 40's' then he would be today. Again JMHO

[GlitchWizard]

Just to respond to the people who heard the car was a good ways off of the pavement - 20 feet or so. If the car was 20 feet off the pavement, it would have to be in a tree. There isn't THAT much room before the edge of the pine trees, and no real "ditch". It's just a regular side of the road, where you'd pull over if you had to stop for any reason. If someone needs a photo, I could take one next time I pass by there in the light. (No flash on cellphone camera.)

[Tallytowngirl]

Here's a link to a photo (http://wtxl.images.worldnow.com/images/7475379_SS.jpg) that gives an idea of where the car was and what the road looks like.

As for the keys being in the car - the police, so far as I know, have not reported what they found (or didn't find) in the car... so nothing is official. I learned about the car being locked and the purse under the seat from an article that quoted a friend of Cheryl's, who was one of the people who found the car on Monday morning. She said the purse was there but the keys and cell were not, and the car was locked. However, the same newspaper and journalist had printed incorrect information in a previous article and had to retract it... so whether this info. is correct, I don't know for a fact.

[GlitchWizard]

Here's a link to a photo (http://wtxl.images.worldnow.com/images/7475379_SS.jpg) that gives an idea of where the car was and what the road looks like.

As for the keys being in the car - the police, so far as I know, have not reported what they found (or didn't find) in the car... so nothing is official. I learned about the car being locked and the purse under the seat from an article that quoted a friend of Cheryl's, who was one of the people who found the car on Monday morning. She said the purse was there but the keys and cell were not, and the car was locked. However, the same newspaper and journalist had printed incorrect information in a previous article and had to retract it... so whether this info. is correct, I don't know for a fact.

I'd be more apt to go with information you hear directly from someone involved (person who found the car, as you said) since the information from the people who found her body was all accurate and the rest of the information sources kept on either denying it or just not saying.

[panglossian]

Here's a link to a photo (http://wtxl.images.worldnow.com/images/7475379_SS.jpg) that gives an idea of where the car was and what the road looks like.

As for the keys being in the car - the police, so far as I know, have not reported what they found (or didn't find) in the car... so nothing is official. I learned about the car being locked and the purse under the seat from an article that quoted a friend of Cheryl's, who was one of the people who found the car on Monday morning. She said the purse was there but the keys and cell were not, and the car was locked. However, the same newspaper and journalist had printed incorrect information in a previous article and had to retract it... so whether this info. is correct, I don't know for a fact.

Thank you for that photo link. One picture is worth a thousand words, isn't it?
They most likely won't release the police report, yet, which would have a sketch done by the arriving LE showing exactly where and how the car was positioned. Not that those are always accurate, as I found when a car flipped into my yard and it was credited to 3 houses down, causing arguments with insurance adjusters... But your photo leaves little to the imagination, Tallytowngirl!

[MeoW333]

Do a lot of people abandon cars on that road? Are there a lot left there with that pink or orange sticker the police tag them with when they see them? Maybe if it was out of the way enough, who parked it would figure people thought it was one of those abandoned cars that are on highways time to time. I would see them on I-95 a lot and some other roads. I never knew what the story was with all of them, yet there was enough of them there.

[Hiker]

Gary Hilton appears to have supported himself between jobs by stealing money from his victims. If theft was his primary motive, then he likely chose his victims based on the ease with which he thought he could overpower them, the likelihood that they had cash and/ or a bank card and the fact that they were in a place where no one else would see him kidnap them.

Thieves do not always have the sort of similarities between victims that serial killers typically have. I believe Gary Hilton is a sociopath who has so little regard for human life that he killed people just so there would be no witnesses to testify about his thefts.

[dragonfly]

Hiker, I was thinking the same thing. If you look at the time line that SuziQ posted on another thread and realize if Hilton killed the Bryants in Oct. 2007 used their bankcard, got cash. He killed Cheryl Dunlap the beginning of Dec 2007 in Florida, used her bankcard, he must have been out of money. So he killed to get more money. Then a month later Jan 1, 2008 he is looking for another victim, Meredith. When she won't give him her correct pin number, he desperately call his old boss for money.

This is so frightening to think about - his killing was taking place about once a month.

[Tallytowngirl]

I believe Gary Hilton is a sociopath who has so little regard for human life that he killed people just so there would be no witnesses to testify about his thefts.

oh yes, he's definitely a sociopath. My opinion is similar to yours, but backwards. I think he enjoyed the killing, and money was his way of "rationalizing" the kidnapping. The reason I think this is because he never seemed to take a lot of money from the accounts (even with the correct pin).

The timing of the events also makes me wonder -
Oct. 21 the Bryants
Dec. 1 Cheryl
Jan 1 Meredith
(Michael Louis went missing on November 21 but I think they've determined Hilton wasn't in Ormond Beach at the time).

It's like a cyclical thing with him.

[Tallytowngirl]

oh, yes, where are my manners?
Hi Hiker, welcome to the forum! I'm really interested in knowing what all the hiking community knows about Hilton... Thanks so much for joining!

I've wondered where Hilton camped while he was down here - if it was near where he'd left Cheryl's body, and whether he left anything behind at any of his camps. There's a lot of territory to cover with this guy - thank goodness for hikers and hunters!

[panglossian]

Gary Hilton appears to have supported himself between jobs by stealing money from his victims. If theft was his primary motive, then he likely chose his victims based on the ease with which he thought he could overpower them, the likelihood that they had cash and/ or a bank card and the fact that they were in a place where no one else would see him kidnap them.

Thieves do not always have the sort of similarities between victims that serial killers typically have. I believe Gary Hilton is a sociopath who has so little regard for human life that he killed people just so there would be no witnesses to testify about his thefts.

Hi Hiker! Welcome!
Seems this predator found ample opportunity on trails and roads. He weaved in and out of view with such ease. I wonder if he used those service roads that connect fire towers and those that logging operations used and abandoned, usually adjacent to the Trail, which I've seen on the northern portion of the AT. He really had a system worked out which would have taken years to fine tune.

[MeoW333]

I think he started out killing for the thrill of it and then later on decided to start taking the victims' money or credit cards when he needed cash. I'm sure he was just as comfortable hunting his victims on trails as he was on roads. Like it was said earlier, he didn't just start killing this late in life. He could have been killing since his 20's onward. The way he dismembered the victims shows that he is very comfortable with killing and death. He may have started out just shooting them, something less personal that bashing in their heads (i hate to put it bluntly) yet the violence in the way he killed his victims also shows how comfortable he is with killing. If he saw someone walking who he thought was an easy victim, i'm sure he wouldn't be able to pass up the opportunity. Somehow over the years, his methods of killing had to evolve to dismemberment. He could have started out shooting his victims, or maybe strangling them, and worked his way up to bashing or stabbing them. I'm not sure if they will ever find all his victims if he turns out to be as prolific as Bundy. All we can do is find areas he's lived at or been to, hopefully be able to get old pictures of him to see if there was ever any witness sketches or anything to connect him when he was younger in appearance to the area he was in and crimes during that time.

[Native New Yorker]

Welcome to you, Hiker!
I agree with all of you that GMH has been doing this for years, and perhaps his M.O. did evolve over the years. I think he always preferred to kill women, partly because they were easier prey...
Insofar as money, as a veteran, wasn't he entitled to benefits? I sure do wish that someone could find out why he left the service just as the Vietnam war was heating up...very odd timing...wish we could get some real info about whether they asked him to leave...just short of a dishonorable discharge....for being too creepy for combat, perhaps....

[Tallytowngirl]

Welcome to you, Hiker!
I sure do wish that someone could find out why he left the service just as the Vietnam war was heating up...very odd timing...

Maybe he got out as a conscientious objector?

KIDDING!!! just kidding.
sorry, I've got weird sense of humor, and I couldn't pass it up.

he probably fragged his lieutenant, but they couldn't prove it.

[GlitchWizard]

Do a lot of people abandon cars on that road? Are there a lot left there with that pink or orange sticker the police tag them with when they see them? Maybe if it was out of the way enough, who parked it would figure people thought it was one of those abandoned cars that are on highways time to time. I would see them on I-95 a lot and some other roads. I never knew what the story was with all of them, yet there was enough of them there.

Cars aren't usually off to the side of that road long enough to get a sticker. People live in Crawfordville and work in Tallahassee, and run out of gas or get a flat - take care of it the same or next day and the car is gone. Most of the time, if a car is off to the side of that road, it's someone who is swimming in a natural spring, someone who is hunting or someone who has to pee too badly to drive to the next potty (ie: my daughter!) The cars aren't there overnight, often.

[GlitchWizard]

Maybe he got out as a conscientious objector? ....

I love your sense of humor. :crazy:

[Native New Yorker]

he probably fragged his lieutenant, but they couldn't prove it.

funny, but possibly true...I sure wish we knew!! Who would have thought that the military record of a confessed murderer would be off limits!

[panglossian]

I think he started out killing for the thrill of it and then later on decided to start taking the victims' money or credit cards when he needed cash. I'm sure he was just as comfortable hunting his victims on trails as he was on roads. Like it was said earlier, he didn't just start killing this late in life. He could have been killing since his 20's onward. The way he dismembered the victims shows that he is very comfortable with killing and death. He may have started out just shooting them, something less personal that bashing in their heads (i hate to put it bluntly) yet the violence in the way he killed his victims also shows how comfortable he is with killing. If he saw someone walking who he thought was an easy victim, i'm sure he wouldn't be able to pass up the opportunity. Somehow over the years, his methods of killing had to evolve to dismemberment. He could have started out shooting his victims, or maybe strangling them, and worked his way up to bashing or stabbing them. I'm not sure if they will ever find all his victims if he turns out to be as prolific as Bundy. All we can do is find areas he's lived at or been to, hopefully be able to get old pictures of him to see if there was ever any witness sketches or anything to connect him when he was younger in appearance to the area he was in and crimes during that time.

I saw a police photo of Hilton from 1995 on the Inside Edition site a couple weeks ago and honestly, he looked like the main character from "House" back then. He actually wasn't that bad looking. Ick :eek:- I can't believe I typed that. But I can see how he has aged so much since then and he would have had to change his approach to gain access to some of his victims. Also, I would not recognize him today by using the 1995 photo. I'm looking for that link.

[panglossian]

HTTP://insideedition.com/news.aspx?storyID=1174

Here is that link of the 1995 much younger looking Hilton.
It was posted on Meredith #4 thread by SuziQ.

[Native New Yorker]

Yes, he would have had to change his approach from that of deranged/not too bad looking good old boy (and remember, three women did marry him!)
to that of harmless old codger with sweet dog.....

I am guessing that the M.S. that he has has aged him quite a bit. I also wish we knew if he ever had any care from the VA. It makes me angry to know that the prison medical system will have to treat his M.S. Though I can't say that I would wish to go to a prison doctor, still it is more than he deserves!

[panglossian]

I don't see the military releasing medical info on Hilton, but nothing would please me more.

I do wonder if some of the guys who served with him remember him and have been commenting on military type blogs or somewhere else.
Over the years he might have frequented veteran establishments like Amvets, VFW or the Eagles. May even have been kicked out for confrontational behavior. I'm sure he shared health stories with someone on the bar stool next to him or the bartenders.

Its interesting that mostly hikers are the ones with the memorable and documented exposures.

[Tallytowngirl]

I am guessing that the M.S. that he has has aged him quite a bit.

Does he actually have M.S., or does he only claim to have M.S. so he can "self medicate" and explain away any noticeable weirdness? I think it was one of the Tabors who said he had "self diagnosed" and took a lot of Ritalin...

He's certainly aged quite a bit from the old '95 photos of him, but not un-recognizably so. I remember reading a witness interview who said Hilton has really gotten weird (and more unhealthy?) in recent years. But he's had run ins with the law because of his temper/violent streak. I wonder if the amphetamines in his system put him over the edge? He might not have been quite so weird in his military years.

As Native New Yorker pointed out - he married three women, he couldn't have been quite so repulsive back then, (could he?). And they got out of the marriage alive, which is a huge miracle, if he were as bad then as he is now...

But I'm still of the opinion he's been at this for a while.

[Native New Yorker]

You know what bugs me the most about this guy?
I think that in his past- aside from the murders- there were many, including three wives who wanted NOTHING more to do with this guy, oh, and I forgot his family....so what did they all do?
They just walked away...and left society defenseless against this monster...
I guess that there was little else they could do, but it still bugs me....

[aj1020]

You know what bugs me the most about this guy?
I think that in his past- aside from the murders- there were many, including three wives who wanted NOTHING more to do with this guy, oh, and I forgot his family....so what did they all do?
They just walked away...and left society defenseless against this monster...
I guess that there was little else they could do, but it still bugs me....

I still don't understand what his family and ex-wives were supposed to do??? People get divorced everyday. People are disowned by their families every day. Most of the time the individual doesn't turn out to be a serial killer. I think that most people would do something, say something, or try to stop this monster, IF they would have thought something like this would happen. I highly doubt they stood idly by, knowing full-well that he would become a serial killer.

[Native New Yorker]

I agree, what could any of them do?
However, although every family has its share of quarrels, don't any of you think it is odd that no one in his family had seen him in 20 years? Or wanted to see him? What about the resounding silence from ex-wives, family?
What I am getting at, is that I think that many were indeed afraid of this man, and were just happy to get away from him.

[Tallytowngirl]

I totally agree, Native New Yorker. All these folks who knew him and want nothing to do with him - his family, ex wives... And how about Tabor? Hilton supposedly blackmailed him and threatened him with bodily harm to the point Tabor (allegedly) pulled a glock, and Tabor never called the police? I mean, hello? Or the guy who reported Hilton beating a dog... If he'd also reported that Hilton tried to run his wife over, with the van... Lots of if-onlys in Hilton's past, but also some really strange behavior on the part of the folks he had run ins with. What was it about him that made them NOT call the police?

But the other thing that really bugs me is that he kept getting pulled over by different law enforcement people, or what have you, and kept talking his way out!

Thank goodness his strange crazy backwards luck finally gave out. He didn't kill anybody this month! And never again.

[aj1020]

I think it's easy for you to pass judgment on all those people who didn't react appropriately to Hilton's actions and call LE because you weren't there, but can any of us be so sure that we would have done things differently in their shoes??

[Tallytowngirl]

I think it's easy for you to pass judgment

I hadn't meant to sound as if I were passing judgment - nothing so harsh!
I'm just astonished at Hilton's strange "good fortune" - he acted so mean and hostile to so many people and got away with it for so long. They're all his victims, and I really wasn't trying to "blame the victim."

We discussed this situation in another thread - the bystander effect. and interestingly enough, there was a "This I believe" about it last night on NPR.

A Busybody`s Guide to Improving the World (http://www.thisibelieve.org/dsp_ShowEssay.php?uid=24636&topessays=1)


When I was a teenager, a man I knew killed his son and himself. On the TV news the neighbors were shocked that something like this would happen here, and they had no idea the family was in such trouble.

It was a lie. We all knew what that man did to his kids. We told ourselves it was none of our business, and now we were lying because we were complicit in a child’s death. We’d seen the bruises on the children and did nothing. We’d seen the way he talked to them and said nothing. And so when the TV cameras came along, we told them we saw nothing.

I helped kill that kid, like everyone else, in the name of minding my own business.But, as Seriously Searching will say, this is a bit off topic... (Sorry SS! :))

[panglossian]

Thanks for that link Tallytowngirl.
I think it also involves picking your battles. If someone perceives a lot of personal battles within their day, they will prioritize to the most immediate battle within the needs hierarchy. That won't be the neighbor or stranger unless they would be necessary in resolving a battle.

I don't know why Hilton's family stayed silent, I'm sure they had their reasons. Given his age how many in his family still survive...

[aj1020]

I don't know why Hilton's family stayed silent, I'm sure they had their reasons. Given his age how many in his family still survive...

I agree - we don't know these people, but one can only assume that they had their reasons for keeping their distance from him - or maybe he's the one that stayed away from his family. The point is we just don't know his family situation and trying to figure out what happened without more clues is asinine.

Thanks for the link, Tally. I absolutely makes sense to me why people didn't contact LE all those times when Hilton's behavior was questionable. It may have been out of the ordinary, but most may have just viewed it as odd and went about their day to deal with their own, more important issues.

[GlitchWizard]

I think it's easy for you to pass judgment on all those people who didn't react appropriately to Hilton's actions and call LE because you weren't there, but can any of us be so sure that we would have done things differently in their shoes??

What good would it have done to contact law enforcement for weird behavior, anyway? Unless a law is broken, they can't do anything - and if a law is broken but isn't a huge one - he's out again anyway.

[Tallytowngirl]

What good would it have done to contact law enforcement for weird behavior, anyway? Unless a law is broken, they can't do anything - and if a law is broken but isn't a huge one - he's out again anyway.

no, I know, I know. He never got seen doing anything more than being weird or cranky - things that lots of perfectly harmless people might do. So don't call the cops, give the guy some slack, he's already got enough problems, being old, toothless and living in a van...

Here's another example of crazy stupid luck that I started to mention in my earlier post - he had an outstanding Georgia warrant out for his arrest, (I think for leaving the other van out in the woods). It's what they held him on until they gathered enough on him for Meredith's murder. But nobody in Georgia thought it important enough to add it to the national database. If LE here in FL had seen he had an outstanding warrant... well it was only abandoning a car, so they probably would have let him go, anyway.

[GlitchWizard]

That's the eerie thing about serial killers. Most of them aren't whacked out acting weirdos like this one. You'd never know. *shudder*

no, I know, I know. He never got seen doing anything more than being weird or cranky - things that lots of perfectly harmless people might do. So don't call the cops, give the guy some slack, he's already got enough problems, being old, toothless and living in a van...

Here's another example of crazy stupid luck that I started to mention in my earlier post - he had an outstanding Georgia warrant out for his arrest, (I think for leaving the other van out in the woods). It's what they held him on until they gathered enough on him for Meredith's murder. But nobody in Georgia thought it important enough to add it to the national database. If LE here in FL had seen he had an outstanding warrant... well it was only abandoning a car, so they probably would have let him go, anyway.

[Native New Yorker]

It is too bad that when GMH tried to run over that man's wife, that it was not reported ( the man just reported Hilton for threatening his dog)...I know that it is a lot of trouble to make such reports...and might not have made any difference ultimately...
Hilton was incredibly lucky...and seems to have flown under the radar for many years......

I am just horrified at all that was found in his van ( see the thread on the Bryants) HOW many people did this monster kill??

[Native New Yorker]

http://wlos.com/newsroom/nc/topstory/topstory1.shtml
see link at end of article for search warrant

***thank you, Sweetmop!***

[Blondieskatz]

Here's another example of crazy stupid luck that I started to mention in my earlier post - he had an outstanding Georgia warrant out for his arrest, (I think for leaving the other van out in the woods). It's what they held him on until they gathered enough on him for Meredith's murder. But nobody in Georgia thought it important enough to add it to the national database. If LE here in FL had seen he had an outstanding warrant... well it was only abandoning a car, so they probably would have let him go, anyway.

How tue that is Tt. You hear about it all the time once these serial killers are caught. Somewhere along the way they had been stopped for speeding or some traffic violation or even taken to jail for some reason.

[happy2bn10ec]

It is too bad that when GMH tried to run over that man's wife, that it was not reported ( the man just reported Hilton for threatening his dog)...I know that it is a lot of trouble to make such reports...and might not have made any difference ultimately...
Hilton was incredibly lucky...and seems to have flown under the radar for many years......

I am just horrified at all that was found in his van ( see the thread on the Bryants) HOW many people did this monster kill??

I know this is O/T, so sorry - I don't know about ya'll, but I am
baffled by the fact that this man reported Hilton for threatening his dog but not for trying to RUN OVER HIS WIFE???:waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec:

[Tallytowngirl]

I know this is O/T, so sorry - I don't know about ya'll, but I am
baffled by the fact that this man reported Hilton for threatening his dog but not for trying to RUN OVER HIS WIFE???:waitasec: :waitasec: :waitasec:

Me too! And I don't even think it was HIS dog, I think it was just some dog...

[DeltaDawn]

Here's a link to a photo (http://wtxl.images.worldnow.com/images/7475379_SS.jpg) that gives an idea of where the car was and what the road looks like.

As for the keys being in the car - the police, so far as I know, have not reported what they found (or didn't find) in the car... so nothing is official. I learned about the car being locked and the purse under the seat from an article that quoted a friend of Cheryl's, who was one of the people who found the car on Monday morning. She said the purse was there but the keys and cell were not, and the car was locked. However, the same newspaper and journalist had printed incorrect information in a previous article and had to retract it... so whether this info. is correct, I don't know for a fact.

When you click on the photo link above from Tallytowngirl there is a sign/poster for Cheryl. I think the wording of the sign is very important..It says LAST SEEN HERE. This leads me to believe by the wording they used that someone did infact report seeing Cheryl either in her car or in the area near there..otherwise it would have said her car was found here..not last seen here. I think her cell was either not with her or dead, so she couldn't call for help so she decided to walk back to the gas station.



Also interesting if she took her keys, wallet and cellphone. Hilton did not like his vics to be carrying cellphones. The girl that he cased on the trail the day prior to Meredith's abduction said he worked it into the conversation asking two key things, do you have a cellphone and are you alone. That girl was with a group that was just arriving. So he was very astute at what he was looking for in a vic. And patient enough to have the time, place and vic meet his requirements.

[MeoW333]

I have a question, if anyone knows the answer to this. It says in the article that Hilton was born in Atlanta, Ga. Yet on a background check, his social security # was issued in FL. Is this a common thing, to have a SS# issued in a different state than where one is born?

"Born in Atlanta, Ga. to William E. Hilton and Cleo M. Reynolds, Gary Hilton once pursued a promising life."
http://insideedition.com/news.aspx?storyID=1174

[DeltaDawn]

Yes, back in the day people didn't automatically get a SS#. So he may have waited to get one until he was enlisted in the service.

[Hiker]

While you now have to have SS#s for children to do things like list them as dependents on your income tax and get health insurance for them, this was not always the case. Many people did not get an SS card until they went to work or to college in the past because children were not required to have an SS# unless they had income that had to be reported to the IRS (like a trust fund's interest income) or they were drawing SSI or SS survivor benefits or Food Stamps or welfare.

[panglossian]

While you now have to have SS#s for children to do things like list them as dependents on your income tax and get health insurance for them, this was not always the case. Many people did not get an SS card until they went to work or to college in the past because children were not required to have an SS# unless they had income that had to be reported to the IRS (like a trust fund's interest income) or they were drawing SSI or SS survivor benefits or Food Stamps or welfare.

Correct. I was a SS kid after my father died. We were covered under his SS# and I got my own SS# at age 16 for my first job. Even though I had my own SS# I was still under his SS until I completed college.

[Native New Yorker]

Hilton seemed to have some ties to Florida, and that is interesting that his SS # came from there....he lived there at one time...the late 70's I think?
He must have had some family there, maybe his mother's family.
I STILL wish we knew if he had brothers or sisters!

[Emily Booth]

Some comments from Hilton family aquaintances can be viewed here: http://tinyurl.com/2l9xa9

"Hilton does have family but they have had no contact with him for over 20 years. Not even his Mother. He has 5 cousins in Georgia His Mother lived in Flordia but is in hospice in another state. He has uncle who did live in North Carolina but has moved and a aunt in california. Hilton was bad news for along time. His family has nothing to add. No sob story. I met him once with his Mother at underground Atlanta way back in the 70,s and he creeped me out then. From what I have heard he was bad news even as a child. His family are good people. people you would love to have as neighbors. Hilton is a abberation. And the Hilton name does not connect to any of them."

&
"To be honest until he came up as a person of interest they had no idea if he was dead or alive. The preference would have been for him to have been dead rather than all these people being killed. I dont know why the break with him happened. I just know with the family members I have know for years it must have been something really huge. These people hold family and friends close. Hilton had every chance in the world to be a good solid citizen for what ever reason he is not."

[Native New Yorker]

Thanks for posting that. I had read that some time ago, but forgot about it....
sometimes there is no rhyme or reason as to why someone becomes such a monster...perhaps they are born that way, who knows?
Out of the countless children who are abused, it is fairly certain that many will go on to abuse their own children. Making the leap to murderer is certainly less certain.

I personally feel that the Hiltons and Gacys of our world were just born that way.