Law Enforcement/the Brianna case

[KR2tonenow]

Hi, this one is for SQ!

~I admire a few posters on here. One is SQ and the other is SS. These posters have valuable insight and add much to the discussion.~

With that said, after viewing other missing persons cases from "Other possible Victims" thread, I wonder why haven't these women been in the press more? Why didn't the RPD announce the woman that was raped last October. Why the secrecy?

It wasn't until the highly profiled case of Brianna Dennsion, did RPD come out and publicly say :hey, we have a serial rapist on our hands. It is hard for me to swallow, when you have RPD, countless volunteers, and the community looking for ONE guy, and there is absolutely no leads until Bri turned up in a field one day.

I think I can speak for alot of posters here, that we are mainly very frustrated. More communication and public awareness is key, for all persons visting or living to be aware of the possibility of a violent encounter. This must be avoided and maybe, just maybe Bri would have locked that darn door!!

[10EC_Dad]

Hi, this one is for SQ!

~I admire a few posters on here. One is SQ and the other is SS. These posters have valuable insight and add much to the discussion.~

With that said, after viewing other missing persons cases from "Other possible Victims" thread, I wonder why haven't these women been in the press more? Why didn't the RPD announce the woman that was raped last October. Why the secrecy?

It wasn't until the highly profiled case of Brianna Dennsion, did RPD come out and publicly say :hey, we have a serial rapist on our hands. It is hard for me to swallow, when you have RPD, countless volunteers, and the community looking for ONE guy, and there is absolutely no leads until Bri turned up in a field one day.

I think I can speak for alot of posters here, that we are mainly very frustrated. More communication and public awareness is key, for all persons visting or living to be aware of the possibility of a violent encounter. This must be avoided and maybe, just maybe Bri would have locked that darn door!!

You may want to rethink that. There were leads before Brianna's body was found. There were publicly stated in numerous media outlets.

I really don't think that she would have been watching the news. It is common sense that college campuses are magnets for sexual crimes. Yet, it was common place for this door to remain unlocked.

[close_enough]

You may want to rethink that. There were leads before Brianna's body was found. There were publicly stated in numerous media outlets.

I really don't think that she would have been watching the news. It is common sense that college campuses are magnets for sexual crimes. Yet, it was common place for this door to remain unlocked.

exactly Dad......

& about the October rape....one woman thought it was a prank, THEN she called LE back....the other attack on October 22nd, there was no evidence, however LE have not dismissed this attack as being related to Brianna's, & neither have i.... (although some here think it has nothing to do with Brianna's case)

LE can't read into the future....they can't yell "serial rapist" at the drop of a hat...they can't save us all...they have a hard job, all over the country.....bashing LE isn't going to solve this crime, & help catch this freak, ..they have to go over & over & over evidence, talk to hundreds of people, ask the public for help, talk to the victims, tie things together, send things off to a lab, yada yada yada......anyone that thinks they're smarter than the Reno LE, needs to go there & become a cop, & 'save' them.....

[txsvicki]

What's really bad is when LE doesn't tell the public of certain MO's. Some years ago here, a serial rapist was active. He would break in and then come back a few days later to rape. Women were raped who had no idea that the "burglar" would return to rape and one ended up committing suicide.

[SeriouslySearching]

Thank you, KR2...not only for the positive comments, but starting this thread.

I agree and I am very frustrated with LE in this particular case. I have made that point perfectly clear in spite of the objections to my opinions.

They did not treat the other cases with such urgency and, until Brianna went missing, didn't bother to run the DNA to consider a match for a serial rapist.

We don't know what would have happened to victim #2 if she were to have stayed in Reno and been at home when he came back on January 19th. They put her case on a back burner and did not turn up the heat until after another abduction.

When they went back to reinterview her, she remembered valuable and detailed information not to catch HER abductor...but Brianna's. The same goes for victim #1. I wonder what their thoughts are on how this played out?

Since Brianna was staying at a parent's home, if it had been on the local news...I would think the parent would have given a warning to her daughter before going out. I know most parents would make sure their 19yo daughter, when knowingly going to an area where a rapist was specifically targeting her age and type, would be aware and alerting her to be extra-careful or recommend she come home after the night out. I don't believe her mother would have hesitated about picking her up at any hour! No, I don't think Bri listens to the news, but coming from her mother...she might have listened and taken certain precautions.

[DeltaDawn]

I was a college student many years ago..human nature and stalkers do not change. I was stalked on my campus and LE had said nothing about the incidents that had already occured. Luckily for me one of my classes that I took at night on the campus was attended by an LE detective. Once he found out about phone calls and different things that had happened to me he proceded to walk me back to my dorm each night. That was the only way they caught the rapist that was on my campus..this was 1972 and it seems to me that hasn't changed much.
JMHO

[SeriouslySearching]

No, it doesn't seem to have changed much.

During the past 20 years, I have seen some positive changes on how crimes against women are taken more seriously than before. This hasn't come without women fighting legally for those changes to be put into place, however.

Today, they will take action which means...they take a report, do a rape kit, and if they happen to run across him during the commission of another crime...they may charge him. Some areas of the country are better at handling rape cases than others.

[10EC_Dad]

No, it doesn't seem to have changed much.

During the past 20 years, I have seen some positive changes on how crimes against women are taken more seriously than before. This hasn't come without women fighting legally for those changes to be put into place, however.

Today, they will take action which means...they take a report and if they happen to run across him during the commission of another crime...they may charge him. Sound familiar?

LE is doing a goodjob on this case.

[TheBugHouse]

LE is doing a goodjob on this case.
>
I agree with you dad, I also agree with your original post before it was censored. I'm not trying to rip on anyone here, but apparently posting 20 times a day buys you some clout. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and to post it, but when that opinion is clouded by emotion, it becomes grandstanding more than a discussion.

[chicoliving]

TheBugHouse, I highly suggest editing your post to remove the slam against the mods.

[TheBugHouse]

TheBugHouse, I highly suggest editing your post to remove the slam against the mods.
>
Not a slam, sarcasm perhaps, but not a slam.

[SeriouslySearching]

>
I agree with you dad, I also agree with your original post before it was censored. I'm not trying to rip on anyone here, but apparently posting 20 times a day buys you some clout. Everyone has a right to their opinion, and to post it, but when that opinion is clouded by emotion, it becomes grandstanding more than a discussion.I assume you are talking about me. If I choose to post 100 times a day, I have no more clout than the person who posts once. I even have to be more careful to follow the rules because they will tos me first as I should know better. I put a lot of thought into what I post and try to stay away from "grandstanding", as you put it. My opinions do differ from other posters because we don't all see the world the same.

I am passionate about certain topics because of experience, mine and other's. If we do nothing here besides learn from people who have faced crime and violence in this lifetime in order to move forward to help prevent it occurring to someone else...I think it is a positive thing.

This site is full of people who are here because tragedy hit too close to home and they are looking for answers. Trying to find those answers, we go into areas which may be uncomfortable or even painful for some.

This isn't an editorial page, a crime novel, or a legal forum to debate case law. We deal with real life issues affecting millions of people touched by a missing loved one, a murdered friend, or others we don't even know but feel so much compassion for. We all want to help find some answers and perhaps bring a missing person home, find justice for a murdered child, or question what is wrong with this country that we have millions of people go missing without a trace. With the latter, I have serious questions about why and how this can happen time after time after time.

What are we doing wrong? How can this happen in the age of instant news, cutting edge technology, and in the most civilized society in the world? Go look at the faces of our missing or unidentified. Pages and pages and pages of people who have vanished seemingly into thin air. Where are they and how can we bring them home? Who are the people responsible? What can we learn from one case to apply to the next to prevent another tragedy? If it means questioning how LE handles a case, our perception of feeling safe in our surroundings, and how we can combat such violence...we should go down every possible avenue to find the answers.

Hiding your head in the sand and pretending that all is well with our law enforcement agencies or that the overall ills of our society are not part of the problem lacks intelligence and puts blinders on the very things which need to be fixed. We have a serious problem which needs to be addressed on many levels.

[Rolex]

Thank you, KR2...not only for the positive comments, but starting this thread.

I agree and I am very frustrated with LE in this particular case. I have made that point perfectly clear in spite of the objections to my opinions.

They did not treat the other cases with such urgency and, until Brianna went missing, didn't bother to run the DNA to consider a match for a serial rapist.

We don't know what would have happened to victim #2 if she were to have stayed in Reno and been at home when he came back on January 19th. They put her case on a back burner and did not turn up the heat until after another abduction.

When they went back to reinterview her, she remembered valuable and detailed information not to catch HER abductor...but Brianna's. The same goes for victim #1. I wonder what their thoughts are on how this played out?

Since Brianna was staying at a parent's home, if it had been on the local news...I would think the parent would have given a warning to her daughter before going out. I know most parents would make sure their 19yo daughter, when knowingly going to an area where a rapist was specifically targeting her age and type, would be aware and alerting her to be extra-careful or recommend she come home after the night out. I don't believe her mother would have hesitated about picking her up at any hour! No, I don't think Bri listens to the news, but coming from her mother...she might have listened and taken certain precautions.


The rape at the college was on the local news. As I said before I have two co-workers with 19 yr old daughters that go to UNR. One I specifically remember talking about buying her daughter a tazer for Christmas.

Also want to add I am a Mom of teen girls - everything I tell my girls they do - NOT!
What makes you think that SS, seriously?

We also tell our teens not to have sex and more specifically unprotected sex -
Not to drink and drive -
Not to do drugs -
Pick up their room -
Do your homework -
etc, etc,etc.
I remember my Mom telling me not to go somewhere as a teen. I climbed out the window and did it anyway. Many times.

How do you know her Mom didn't warn her?

[KR2tonenow]

I assume you are talking about me. If I choose to post 100 times a day, I have no more clout than the person who posts once. I even have to be more careful to follow the rules because they will tos me first as I should know better. I put a lot of thought into what I post and try to stay away from "grandstanding", as you put it. My opinions do differ from other posters because we don't all see the world the same.

I am passionate about certain topics because of experience, mine and other's. If we do nothing here besides learn from people who have faced crime and violence in this lifetime in order to move forward to help prevent it occurring to someone else...I think it is a positive thing.

This site is full of people who are here because tragedy hit too close to home and they are looking for answers. Trying to find those answers, we go into areas which may be uncomfortable or even painful for some.

This isn't an editorial page, a crime novel, or a legal forum to debate case law. We deal with real life issues affecting millions of people touched by a missing loved one, a murdered friend, or others we don't even know but feel so much compassion for. We all want to help find some answers and perhaps bring a missing person home, find justice for a murdered child, or question what is wrong with this country that we have millions of people go missing without a trace. With the latter, I have serious questions about why and how this can happen time after time after time.

What are we doing wrong? How can this happen in the age of instant news, cutting edge technology, and in the most civilized society in the world? Go look at the faces of our missing or unidentified. Pages and pages and pages of people who have vanished seemingly into thin air. Where are they and how can we bring them home? Who are the people responsible? What can we learn from one case to apply to the next to prevent another tragedy? If it means questioning how LE handles a case, our perception of feeling safe in our surroundings, and how we can combat such violence...we should go down every possible avenue to find the answers.

Hiding your head in the sand and pretending that all is well with our law enforcement agencies or that the overall ills of our society are not part of the problem lacks intelligence and puts blinders on the very things which need to be fixed. We have a serious problem which needs to be addressed on many levels.

:clap: :clap:

Families of Victims of Crimes have the support on this forum. The voices here, however expressed, speak out for those that can't hear, who are missing and perhaps forever sleeping.

Thanks. SS

[Rolex]

My sister was murdered in 1986 - Never been solved. All these years I have been blaming the actual killer. Should I switch my blame to LE? Will that make me feel better? I don't think so.

[SeriouslySearching]

[/B]


The rape at the college was on the local news. As I said before I have two co-workers with 19 yr old daughters that go to UNR. One I specifically remember talking about buying her daughter a tazer for Christmas.

Also want to add I am a Mom of teen girls - everything I tell my girls they do - NOT!
What makes you think that SS, seriously?

We also tell our teens not to have sex and more specifically unprotected sex -
Not to drink and drive -
Not to do drugs -
Pick up their room -
Do your homework -
etc, etc,etc.
I remember my Mom telling me not to go somewhere as a teen. I climbed out the window and did it anyway. Many times.

How do you know her Mom didn't warn her?I am a parent of five grown children and step-children. My youngest is 19 and is in college. The years they pretended not to listen to me have paid off tenfold and they have actually thanked me several times for the advice I never thought they heard...but I gave anyway. They never have done drugs (we discuss it openly and always have), they do their homework (as one is a 4.0 student in grad school and the other on the President's Honor Roll in college), they don't drink nor do they allow their friends to drive if they are aware they are drinking, one is a policeman, the other two are responsible, successful parents who are now worried about teaching their own, and quite frankly...I am very proud of them all. You asked me why I seriously think that...and I have given you my reasons.

I am glad it was on local television at least once before Christmas, but I would like to know more of how much they pursued the first two attacks. They didn't have the information to go on that they learned of in late January...so what were they looking for before then?!

Brianna was an intelligent girl with a good head on her shoulders from everything we have heard about her. She sounds just like the type I would expect to pay heed to a warning that a rapist was attacking specific females in the small area of KT's apartment...however, they did not KNOW that at the time because LE had not put it together until she went missing. How could she have warned her?

[10EC_Dad]

I am sorry to hear about your sister. I can't begin to imagine the emation you have had to justly deal with. I hope I am not getting too personal.

We all would like to live in a better world. I don't think condeming those that are trying to make it a better place is the way to improve it. How does that motivate? How does that add to a better world?

Others may have had to endure deeper pain than I have.

[10EC_Dad]

I am a parent of five grown children and step-children. My youngest is 19 and is in college. The years they pretended not to listen to me have paid off tenfold and they have actually thanked me several times for the advice I never thought they heard...but I gave anyway. They never have done drugs (we discuss it openly and always have), they do their homework (as one is a 4.0 student in grad school and the other on the President's Honor Roll in college), they don't drink nor do they allow their friends to drive if they are aware they are drinking, one is a policeman, the other two are responsible, successful parents who are now worried about teaching their own, and quite frankly...I am very proud of them all. You asked me why I seriously think that...and I have given you my reasons.

I am glad it was on local television at least once before Christmas, but I would like to know more of how much they pursued the first two attacks. They didn't have the information to go on that they learned of in late January...so what were they looking for before then?!

Brianna was an intelligent girl with a good head on her shoulders from everything we have heard about her. She sounds just like the type I would expect to pay heed to a warning that a rapist was attacking specific females in the small area of KT's apartment...however, they did not KNOW that at the time because LE had not put it together until she went missing. How could she have warned her?

I think I see where you are coming from. However, Brianna did sllep beside an unlocked door close to a college campus. Obviously, she should have known better than that. At that age, sound judgement is sometimes lacking.

[SeriouslySearching]

My sister was murdered in 1986 - Never been solved. All these years I have been blaming the actual killer. Should I switch my blame to LE? Will that make me feel better? I don't think so.Rolex, I am very sorry for your loss. Nothing I can say will bring justice to your sister or your family, but hopefully...the things we do now can pave the way for other families not to endure what your family has.

We all know that in 1986, technology wasn't available to the extent it is today to help solve crimes. The media wasn't accessed instantly on the internet and the wheels didn't turn very quickly. While I don't know about how LE responded in your sister's case, you make it sound like you are totally satisfied with the way her case was handled. I am glad you can take comfort in knowing that. I am sure I would not be able to feel the same way given it was never solved.

[Rolex]

SS, I was talking about teens in general, Not my teens, not your teens. If they all heeded all the warnings parents gave them, nothing would ever happen to teenagers, and we all know that is not real life.

My sister didn't do any of those things either. I'm sure there are thousands of victums who never do anything wrong. Sometimes bad things happen to good people.

[SeriouslySearching]

We all would like to live in a better world. I don't think condeming those that are trying to make it a better place is the way to improve it. How does that motivate? How does that add to a better world?

Others may have had to endure deeper pain than I have.I am not trying to condemn anyone. I want LE to learn and to realize that John Q. Public is their best ally in stopping predators. They should be motivated to learn new tricks in a system that is much about doing things "by the book" even if the book hasn't been working in the past 100 years.

Granted, they have made long strides in the way they handle cases, but I don't believe they are much further ahead because of the belief that the public should only be involved when they run out of leads or the case gets cold enough to warrant it. That thinking is stale and outdated. It hasn't worked on so many cases and yet they keep up the same guard.

Does it make sense to keep doing things which are not working?! It is not stopping these predators, but it is leaving them out there to keep reoffending! To me, that is unacceptable. There are many examples of cases being solved because LE included the public from the beginning in direct and clearly open dialog.

[SeriouslySearching]

Teens in general maybe need more skills to cope with society and what is happening around them. It starts at home. I raised my kids in the same cruel world everyone else has. Gangbangers lined up across the street of the middle school on one side with the police with guns drawn in a line on the other, so we could pick our children up safely. Drugs run rampant even in our elementary schools.

Kids are going to be kids...true enough...but the stress our kids have today is nothing like we had growing up. They need skills to cope or you can count on them taking the easy way out which ends in disaster. People are raising these predators! You hear that rape is about rage, control, and power. What if that person as a child was given ways to deal with those issues?

I am interested in finding answers to put a stop to their reign of terror over us!! LE needs to be more interested in putting our safety and the safety of our familes over what they find to be "need to know basis" so we can work together to curb these crimes somehow before another Brianna goes missing.

[10EC_Dad]

I am not trying to condemn anyone. I want LE to learn and to realize that John Q. Public is their best ally in stopping predators. They should be motivated to learn new tricks in a system that is much about doing things "by the book" even if the book hasn't been working in the past 100 years.

Granted, they have made long strides in the way they handle cases, but I don't believe they are much further ahead because of the belief that the public should only be involved when they run out of leads or the case gets cold enough to warrant it. That thinking is stale and outdated. It hasn't worked on so many cases and yet they keep up the same guard.

Does it make sense to keep doing things which are not working?! It is not stopping these predators, but it is leaving them out there to keep reoffending! To me, that is unacceptable. There are many examples of cases being solved because LE included the public from the beginning in direct and clearly open dialog.

Decaying morals is much more of a contributor to crime than LE not letting John Q Public try to pretend to know how to be LE. I am not completely discounting what you are saying but I don't agree that involving the public without restaint is the real answer.

Let's face it, millions of sports fans think their coach is an idiot sometimes and they, John Q Public, think that they know how to run the team better than the coach. That type of talk sounds good from the living room or bar but it's it is not practical. Think if the coach invited every season ticket holder to hold a practice for the team. There would be a lot of great sounding theories but not much constructive team "take aways".

In this case, it does not look like LE is trying to do it all themselves without involving others.

Well, that's just how I see it.

[Rolex]

Rolex, I am very sorry for your loss. Nothing I can say will bring justice to your sister or your family, but hopefully...the things we do now can pave the way for other families not to endure what your family has.

We all know that in 1986, technology wasn't available to the extent it is today to help solve crimes. The media wasn't accessed instantly on the internet and the wheels didn't turn very quickly. While I don't know about how LE responded in your sister's case, you make it sound like you are totally satisfied with the way her case was handled. I am glad you can take comfort in knowing that. I am sure I would not be able to feel the same way given it was never solved.

I have never been 'satisfied' that someone got away with two murders.
I don't take comfort in anything.
It dosen't have anything to do with technology. We all know who did it.
Proving it in court of Law is different. Not everything is as simple as you make it sound.
I can't let it consume my life any more. I have girls to raise and life to live. But putting blame on LE would certainly do no good.

[10EC_Dad]

Teens in general maybe need more skills to cope with society and what is happening around them. It starts at home. I raised my kids in the same cruel world everyone else has. Gangbangers lined up across the street of the middle school on one side with the police with guns drawn in a line on the other, so we could pick our children up safely. Drugs run rampant even in our elementary schools.

Kids are going to be kids...true enough...but the stress our kids have today is nothing like we had growing up. They need skills to cope or you can count on them taking the easy way out which ends in disaster. People are raising these predators! You hear that rape is about rage, control, and power. What if that person as a child was given ways to deal with those issues?

I am interested in finding answers to put a stop to their reign of terror over us!! LE needs to be more interested in putting our safety and the safety of our familes over what they find to be "need to know basis" so we can work together to curb these crimes somehow before another Brianna goes missing.

I hate to hear that your kids had to grow up in that environment. You must have some very good parenting skills to get them through it. That is something to be proud of.

Most of these predators come with a childhood trauma that manifest itself as criminal activity. I am not supplying an reason why they should not be held accountable for their actions. Sometimes the trauma is from the parents, intentional and not. Sometimes its from someone outside the family.

When it comes down to the real cause, it is a decay in societal morals. LE is at the end of the process trying to deal with the mess that our society has created.

Focusing on LE as the problem is like blaming the fire department for the fire. Can the public do a better job driving the fire truck too?

[SeriouslySearching]

A coach isn't responsible at the end of the day for protecting human life. Apples and oranges.

We are all in this together and while I agree that LE should hold a few things back...they should give more information initially to the public to bring a case to the forefront so we can get these predators off our streets.

[SeriouslySearching]

I have never been 'satisfied' that someone got away with two murders.
I don't take comfort in anything.
It dosen't have anything to do with technology. We all know who did it.
Proving it in court of Law is different. Not everything is as simple as you make it sound.
I can't let it consume my life any more. I have girls to raise and life to live. But putting blame on LE would certainly do no good.I am sorry. I guess I misunderstood you. My apologies. :(

[10EC_Dad]

A coach isn't responsible at the end of the day for protecting human life. Apples and oranges.

We are all in this together and while I agree that LE should hold a few things back...they should give more information initially to the public to bring a case to the forefront so we can get these predators off our streets.

Exactly and the public knows no more about LE than coaching. I think you can understand the point.

[adnoid]

...Let's face it, millions of sports fans think their coach is an idiot sometimes and they, John Q Public, think that they know how to run the team better than the coach. That type of talk sounds good from the living room or bar but it's it is not practical. Think if the coach invited every season ticket holder to hold a practice for the team. There would be a lot of great sounding theories but not much constructive team "take aways"...

Excellent analogy.

[SeriouslySearching]

Exactly and the public knows no more about LE than coaching. I think you can understand the point.It isn't about us understanding LE...it is about getting the public awareness to a level to put these predators behind bars. Their way of doing things doesn't work.

Have you looked at the hundreds of thousands of missing faces out there?! WHAT is working with the way LE is doing it and has done it for all these years? If you can answer that...then we can go from there!

[KR2tonenow]

I was a college student many years ago..human nature and stalkers do not change. I was stalked on my campus and LE had said nothing about the incidents that had already occured. Luckily for me one of my classes that I took at night on the campus was attended by an LE detective. Once he found out about phone calls and different things that had happened to me he proceded to walk me back to my dorm each night. That was the only way they caught the rapist that was on my campus..this was 1972 and it seems to me that hasn't changed much.
JMHO


Exactly DD. The problem is with all this high technology and the increase in populations in some of these areas, has seemed to intensified the criminal element. Crimes are no longer in the "ghetto"...now LE is having to deal with intense issues, such as, teens killing and burning down homes (Texas killings this past weekend).

I think the goal is to add enlightenment for all communities, whether low income or wealthy (the family in Conneticut, the mother and 2 daugters who where raped and murdered, then burned to death)...the countless senseless crimes we are hearing about weekly and sometimes daily. Tragic losses...

Budget cuts in Law Enforcement hasn't helped the matter. Also I would imagine increase in salary wages for LE. Training in homicide investigative skills. More techonlogy.. all this adds to keep up with the ever increasing horrific crimes today.

[10EC_Dad]

It isn't about us understanding LE...it is about getting the public awareness to a level to put these predators behind bars. Their way of doing things doesn't work.

Have you looked at the hundreds of thousands of missing faces out there?! WHAT is working with the way LE is doing it and has done it for all these years? If you can answer that...then we can go from there!

At what criteria is it working?

[SeriouslySearching]

The Amber Alert is working. It was a very positive step in the right direction. Do we at least agree on that?!

[10EC_Dad]

The Amber Alert is working. It was a very positive step in the right direction. Do we at least agree on that?!

Absolutely

Your comment was that what LE is doing now is not working nd changes need to be made. I am just wondering what quantitative criteria can you look at to determine that it is working?

[SeriouslySearching]

Absolutely

Your comment was that what LE is doing now is not working nd changes need to be made. I am just wondering what quantitative criteria can you look at to determine that it is working?There will be a significant drop in the number of missing to begin with, a decrease in those recovered dead, and an increase in the missing recovered alive and in the time it took to recover them (as this would significantly decrease). This would be the only criteria needed to tell us it is working.

[10EC_Dad]

There will be a significant drop in the number of missing to begin with, a decrease in those recovered dead, and an increase in the missing recovered alive and in the time it took to recover them (as this would significantly decrease). This would be the only criteria needed to tell us it is working.

I assume you mean to only include those that are crime related. Is that correct?

Would it make sense to look at it as a percent of the population?

How do you quantify "significant"?

[SeriouslySearching]

Since you cannot determine foul play in so many missing cases until people are actually found, I don't see how you would be able to say only crime related. I feel LE needs to resolve issues in labeling the missing.

While I understand it is impossible to assume that every person missing met with foul play, I do feel when family and friends state the obvious...it should warrant the term of possible foul play involved until proven otherwise and the case treated accordingly.

I also feel laws should be passed which can actually make any adult legally responsible to tell either LE, an Atty, or other professional of their intentions to vanish and make the penalties severe if they walk away then are caught. This would cut down on the time and money spent to finding them by the authorities...plus give LE another way to recoup their losses. In this day and age, people NEED to be held accountable for their actions. They take away neccessary resources from the ones who are missing due to actual foul play.

Since I am not going to play numbers games with you, I guess you would have to look at the stats currently for those categories and if they increase/decrease in the positive at all...it would be towards a successful end. Saving one person is better than none. Bringing home one more person alive in a timely fashion is better than never finding them at all or finding them dead. Do this a few times...and I believe you could deem it as working.

[newshound81]

I'm not saying this is my opinion, but thought it was an interesting note to add to this discussion:

I have knowledge from someone connected to the December rape case that the police did very little follow-up on that rape. The victim was made to feel like a criminal by the questioning officers. She was made to feel like she had committed a crime, not the creep who attacked her. RPD did very little to pursue th perpetrator of that attack. It wasn't until they realized the same guy was involved in the Denison case that they began a serious search for the guy. I think a little "Oh ----, we f***ed-up" entered the picture and they have been scrambling ever since to cover their asses and find the creep. The longer this goes on, the worse it looks for them.

[10EC_Dad]

It is easy to talk in general terms about how LE should be doing a "better job". Until you can define "better job" and what are realistic and reasonable steps, you are not part of the solution. Again, it is like a screaming "fan" who knows it all in the stands but who wilts if placed in the coach's chair.

Let's cut through the chatter and discuss ideas that you believe could be helpful to LE efforts and results. I just ask that you be willing to discuss them and "be accountable" for your remarks.

[10EC_Dad]

Since you cannot determine foul play in so many missing cases until people are actually found, I don't see how you would be able to say only crime related. I feel LE needs to resolve issues in labeling the missing.

While I understand it is impossible to assume that every person missing met with foul play, I do feel when family and friends state the obvious...it should warrant the term of possible foul play involved until proven otherwise and the case treated accordingly.

I also feel laws should be passed which can actually make any adult legally responsible to tell either LE, an Atty, or other professional of their intentions to vanish and make the penalties severe if they walk away then are caught. This would cut down on the time and money spent to finding them by the authorities...plus give LE another way to recoup their losses. In this day and age, people NEED to be held accountable for their actions. They take away neccessary resources from the ones who are missing due to actual foul play.

Since I am not going to play numbers games with you, I guess you would have to look at the stats currently for those categories and if they increase/decrease in the positive at all...it would be towards a successful end. Saving one person is better than none. Bringing home one more person alive in a timely fashion is better than never finding them at all or finding them dead. Do this a few times...and I believe you could deem it as working.

Without looking at "those" stats, how can you say that LE is not being "held accountable" and is not doing a good job?

[StillHoping]

[quote=SeriouslySearching;2029567]
I also feel laws should be passed which can actually make any adult legally responsible to tell either LE, an Atty, or other professional of their intentions to vanish and make the penalties severe if they walk away then are caught. This would cut down on the time and money spent to finding them by the authorities...plus give LE another way to recoup their losses. In this day and age, people NEED to be held accountable for their actions. They take away neccessary resources from the ones who are missing due to actual foul play.quote]

SS,
ITA with your above statement. They could even put a process into place where people could pick up legal forms, sign in front of a witness and notarize them, drop them into a computer system. They wouldn't even have to notify friends or family, just disappear, and then when LE is called in, they automatically check the database first. Very little time wasted searching for someone who doesn't want to be found.

Those who choose to disappear without following the protocol, should be fined and/or jailed, as well as mandatory community service spent working on TRUE missing persons cases, whether handing out water to search teams, or whatever.

[10EC_Dad]

[quote=SeriouslySearching;2029567]
I also feel laws should be passed which can actually make any adult legally responsible to tell either LE, an Atty, or other professional of their intentions to vanish and make the penalties severe if they walk away then are caught. This would cut down on the time and money spent to finding them by the authorities...plus give LE another way to recoup their losses. In this day and age, people NEED to be held accountable for their actions. They take away neccessary resources from the ones who are missing due to actual foul play.quote]

SS,
ITA with your above statement. They could even put a process into place where people could pick up legal forms, sign in front of a witness and notarize them, drop them into a computer system. They wouldn't even have to notify friends or family, just disappear, and then when LE is called in, they automatically check the database first. Very little time wasted searching for someone who doesn't want to be found.

Those who choose to disappear without following the protocol, should be fined and/or jailed, as well as mandatory community service spent working on TRUE missing persons cases, whether handing out water to search teams, or whatever.

This all sounds like the Soviet Union. "Your papers must be in order!"

[SeriouslySearching]

Without looking at "those" stats, how can you say that LE is not being "held accountable" and is not doing a good job?If you reread my post, you will see that I meant that people who are taking off on their own are not being held accountable...to their families, to their creditors, to the IRS, to the community, or to their other obligations which they are leaving behind. Someone will become responsible for all those things in their absence. To me, this is unconscionable. We should put some legality in place to thwart this behavior. As it is now, it is perfectly legal to walk away. How many times have we heard that one from LE?! It is NOT a crime to vanish. It should be!

[10EC_Dad]

If you reread my post, you will see that I meant that people who are taking off on their own are not being held accountable...to their families, to their creditors, to the IRS, to the community, or to their other obligations which they are leaving behind. Someone will become responsible for all those things in their absence. To me, this is unconscionable. We should put some legality in place to thwart this behavior. As it is now, it is perfectly legal to walk away. How many times have we heard that one from LE?! It is NOT a crime to vanish. It should be!

I will say it again, that sounds like the Soviet Union. "Your papers must be in order!"

In theory, your suggestion sounds great. In practice, how are you going to enforce it?

[10EC_Dad]

It isn't about us understanding LE...it is about getting the public awareness to a level to put these predators behind bars. Their way of doing things doesn't work.

Have you looked at the hundreds of thousands of missing faces out there?! WHAT is working with the way LE is doing it and has done it for all these years? If you can answer that...then we can go from there!

What is working? Do you not see it?

Who are all those people sleeping in the prisons?

[StillHoping]

[quote=StillHoping;2030403]

This all sounds like the Soviet Union. "Your papers must be in order!"

I don't really see it as any different than being obligated to file your taxes every year or file custody paperwork when divorcing, or having to take time off work to perform jury duty, etc. As adults, we have obligations and responsibilities, whether it's fun or not. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be able to take off if they choose to. But to waste government and media resources as well as time and money for search purposes, when you don't want to be found, I DO think that should be a crime. I'm not suggesting some long drawn out process where you have to legally "divorce" the people in your life, or anything crazy. I'm talking about a legal form, that can be filled out in front of a legal witness and notarized, for a reasonable sum, and then entered into a database. Basically, a formal legal declaration of an individuals right and choice to leave their current life behind.

If a mother and father divorce, and the mother has custody, she can not legally (at least in most states and in typical circumstances) move out of state without the father's approval. Wouldn't that also be very "soviet union" by your same standards? It seems unfair and improbable that a mother could be FORCED to live in a specific state because the father of her children refuses to agree. But at the same time, it's not necessarily fair that the father has to live states away from his child just because he's not married to the mother anymore. I bring up this example only because I feel that the issue of people choosing to disappear is not black and white. There is no PERFECT way to deal with it. But I do feel that it would be more appropriate for the person who chose to disappear to deal with the consequences, than for the community, LE and other missing persons cases to suffer the consequences.

[10EC_Dad]

[quote=10EC_Dad;2030431]

I don't really see it as any different than being obligated to file your taxes every year or file custody paperwork when divorcing, or having to take time off work to perform jury duty, etc. As adults, we have obligations and responsibilities, whether it's fun or not. I'm not saying that people shouldn't be able to take off if they choose to. But to waste government and media resources as well as time and money for search purposes, when you don't want to be found, I DO think that should be a crime. I'm not suggesting some long drawn out process where you have to legally "divorce" the people in your life, or anything crazy. I'm talking about a legal form, that can be filled out in front of a legal witness and notarized, for a reasonable sum, and then entered into a database. Basically, a formal legal declaration of an individuals right and choice to leave their current life behind.

If a mother and father divorce, and the mother has custody, she can not legally (at least in most states and in typical circumstances) move out of state without the father's approval. Wouldn't that also be very "soviet union" by your same standards? It seems unfair and improbable that a mother could be FORCED to live in a specific state because the father of her children refuses to agree. But at the same time, it's not necessarily fair that the father has to live states away from his child just because he's not married to the mother anymore. I bring up this example only because I feel that the issue of people choosing to disappear is not black and white. There is no PERFECT way to deal with it. But I do feel that it would be more appropriate for the person who chose to disappear to deal with the consequences, than for the community, LE and other missing persons cases to suffer the consequences.

This is not taxes are divorce, not even close. You know that.

Just how would you decide who has to feel out the paperwork, how would you enforce it, how would you prosecute it?

[StillHoping]

[quote=StillHoping;2030974]

This is not taxes are divorce, not even close. You know that.

Just how would you decide who has to feel out the paperwork, how would you enforce it, how would you prosecute it?

Of course I know it's not the same. I used the examples to make my point that most laws or legal procedures are not perfect, and I would not expect my suggestion to be perfect either. That would be unrealistic.
Just as not all Sex Offenders register as required by law, and not all motor vehicle owners register their vehicles as required by law, and not all people pay their taxes as required by law, I understand that not all people choosing to disappearing would follow this protocol. But if a person is caught not paying taxes, they face penalties. If a sex offender is caught and hasn't registered, they face penalties. If a car owner is caught not having registered their vehicle, they face penalties. The same would go for this scenario.

What is it that you feel will not work about this, and why? Do you have other suggestions? Or do you feel that wasted time/resources/money in these situations is not worth creating a law to prosecute people? I am not trying to put words in your mouth, I am just curious to understand your viewpoint on this.

Respectfully,
StillHoping

[SeriouslySearching]

I will say it again, that sounds like the Soviet Union. "Your papers must be in order!"

In theory, your suggestion sounds great. In practice, how are you going to enforce it?When the people are found, they will face prison time and/or hefty fines instead of getting to come home and say, "Sorry...just had to clear my head" and step back into their old lives unless they gave notice of their intent to leave with someone to call off a search for them.

Don't go throwing such tripe around as this being anything like the Soviet Union!! This is America. We do have laws, certain freedoms, and rights...however...we also have to be accountable for our actions. Walking away from our lives should not be an easy option for anyone. Ask the people who deal with the messes left behind!

[10EC_Dad]

[quote=10EC_Dad;2030989]

Of course I know it's not the same. I used the examples to make my point that most laws or legal procedures are not perfect, and I would not expect my suggestion to be perfect either. That would be unrealistic.
Just as not all Sex Offenders register as required by law, and not all motor vehicle owners register their vehicles as required by law, and not all people pay their taxes as required by law, I understand that not all people choosing to disappearing would follow this protocol. But if a person is caught not paying taxes, they face penalties. If a sex offender is caught and hasn't registered, they face penalties. If a car owner is caught not having registered their vehicle, they face penalties. The same would go for this scenario.

What is it that you feel will not work about this, and why? Do you have other suggestions? Or do you feel that wasted time/resources/money in these situations is not worth creating a law to prosecute people? I am not trying to put words in your mouth, I am just curious to understand your viewpoint on this.

Respectfully,
StillHoping

Problems to track compliance, problems to prosecute. I do think it would be a huge waste of resources.

[adnoid]

...Just how would you decide who has to feel out the paperwork, how would you enforce it, how would you prosecute it?

What would you say to the battered woman trying to escape her abusive husband? She's got to make a record of what she's doing (trying to disappear to save her life) or else she's going to prison? That'll work. That's good policy.

[10EC_Dad]

When the people are found, they will face prison time and/or hefty fines instead of getting to come home and say, "Sorry...just had to clear my head" and step back into their old lives unless they gave notice of their intent to leave with someone to call off a search for them.

Don't go throwing such tripe around as this being anything like the Soviet Union!! This is America. We do have laws, certain freedoms, and rights...however...we also have to be accountable for our actions. Walking away from our lives should not be an easy option for anyone. Ask the people who deal with the messes left behind!

Let me ask, in the spirit of accountabilty:

1) How would you implement this?
2)How would you track compliance?
3)How would you prosecute?
4)What would be the penalty?

Looking forward to your well reasoned solution.

[10EC_Dad]

What would you say to the battered woman trying to escape her abusive husband? She's got to make a record of what she's doing (trying to disappear to save her life) or else she's going to prison? That'll work. That's good policy.

Guess what? Every women who did not fill out their "paperwork" is going to be a battered woman running from someone. How much money are we going to spend procsecuting that?

Like I have said, good theory but bad practice.

[SeriouslySearching]

What would you say to the battered woman trying to escape her abusive husband? She's got to make a record of what she's doing (trying to disappear to save her life) or else she's going to prison? That'll work. That's good policy.Darn right she should let her attorney know or someone in authority!! You BET she should let someone in on her trying to get away to save her life! LE should be the one she calls in order to get away, but at the very least...a priest or an attorney should know where she is going in order to make sure she stays safe! IT IS A DARN GOOD POLICY! (I take it you don't know much about battered women trying to escape the abuser, huh?)

Dad~ I can name you four or five women off the top of my head that wasted LE's time and money while they just decided to traipse off into the netherland. Runaway Bride comes to mind, for one. While they did give her some community service and a fine...I didn't feel it was stiff enough.

[SeriouslySearching]

Let me ask, in the spirit of accountabilty:

1) How would you implement this? The laws passed would be what you need to implement it. Pretty self explanatory. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

2)How would you track compliance? How do they track missing people now? OK bad example since they do a very poor job of it and part of the reason a lot of us are here. Compliance would come when they are found. At least, LE would have something to charge them with in their absence so they could pick them up on a warrant in other states. There is nothing in place now that would give LE the right to hold them or send them back to face consequences.

3)How would you prosecute? See above.

4)What would be the penalty? I think repaying the monies spent searching for them is a start. Jail time for every law they broke in the meantime would be part of that penalty.

Looking forward to your well reasoned solution.Here is part of it!

[StillHoping]

I don't understand the point of the battered woman reference. There are already shelters which help battered women. It would be relatively easy to include the paperwork to "disappear by choice" into the process and protocol for these shelters. As I said in a previous post, the paperwork or file would not be available to family/friends, only to proper authorities. Therefor, I don't see how this "law" would create issues for battered women as her abuser would not be privy to this info.

[StillHoping]

Here is part of it!

I also said before that community service performed on other missing persons cases would be a reasonable and productive penalty. It would give the offender an understanding of why and how these other cases are hurt by their actions.

[StillHoping]

I also wanted to add that it's my belief that this "law" would also serve as a deterrant. If people know there will be penalties for taking off and not following the proper protocol, some of them will choose either to not just take off or to file the paperwork. There will always be those who don't follow the law but that's true of all laws and scenarios.

[SeriouslySearching]

How is this much different than allowing women to drop off newborn babies at a hospital or fire station if they want to disown them? I don't see much difference in the theory of putting something in place to allow LE to know you are voluntarily missing and choose not to be found. Neither do the mothers that take advantage of the law when they disown their child. The ones who do not follow the law to the letter are then hunted down and charged with abandonment, etc.

The point is...there IS no law in place currently to charge you for walking out on your life or leaving your wife and/or children to suffer. When they do find you, they do not have the legal right to do anything. This should be changed.

If you haven't already...go read the threads on Jon Van Dyke. It is what is happening in that case. He is free to come out of hiding and continue on with whatever new life he decided upon after years of searching for him. Not even a slap on the wrist! Justice?! No way!

[StillHoping]

Ss,
That was a very good point about safe haven laws.

If mothers can legally abandon a child if procedures are followed, why would this be different? People still abandon babies not following those protocols. There are always those who don't follow the rules or laws. But how many lives have been saved because of The Safe Haven law?

[Utopia]

I don't see much difference in the theory of putting something in place to allow LE to know you are voluntarily missing and choose not to be found. !

I totally get what you are saying about the irresponsible actions of "runaways" and the repercussions of their abandonment. Here's my concern however. The husbands of Lisa Stebic, Theresa Parker and Stacey Peterson have all claimed their wives just up and left. Assuming the husbands are responsible for these disappearances (most here think they are), what a gift for them if a mechanism like the one you suggest were in place! It would not be difficult for them to either forge a signature or "coerce" one to be signed and voila!, no more searching for the victim or blaming the murderer.

[StillHoping]

I totally get what you are saying about the irresponsible actions of "runaways" and the repercussions of their abandonment. Here's my concern however. The husbands of Lisa Stebic, Theresa Parker and Stacey Peterson have all claimed their wives just up and left. Assuming the husbands are responsible for these disappearances (most here think they are), what a gift for them if a mechanism like the one you suggest were in place! It would not be difficult for them to either forge a signature or "coerce" one to be signed and voila!, no more searching for the victim or blaming the murderer.

Good point. That is why there would have to be a legal witness and a process to make sure identification is verified etc. And if there is evidence of foul-play as in each of the above mentioned cases, the "voluntary disappearance" would need to be further investigated or voided. Of course it would not be fool-proof, but no law process is. If only 1 of 5 cases is not pursued because there is proof the disappearance is voluntary, that is still a significant amount of time/resources/money that will not be wasted.

[SeriouslySearching]

I totally get what you are saying about the irresponsible actions of "runaways" and the repercussions of their abandonment. Here's my concern however. The husbands of Lisa Stebic, Theresa Parker and Stacey Peterson have all claimed their wives just up and left. Assuming the husbands are responsible for these disappearances (most here think they are), what a gift for them if a mechanism like the one you suggest were in place! It would not be difficult for them to either forge a signature or "coerce" one to be signed and voila!, no more searching for the victim or blaming the murderer.While I think this would have be done in person by a credible witness (Judge, Attorney, LE, or Priest/Minister)to testify it was done without duress and perhaps could require a video tape of the person as well. There should also be a stiff penalty for anyone who reports this and it is found to be false.

[10EC_Dad]

SeriouslySearching (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=13831) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_2031213", true);
These are my opinions.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,162


Quote:
Originally Posted by 10EC_Dad http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2031154#post2031154)
Let me ask, in the spirit of accountabilty:

1) How would you implement this? The laws passed would be what you need to implement it. Pretty self explanatory. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

2)How would you track compliance? How do they track missing people now? OK bad example since they do a very poor job of it and part of the reason a lot of us are here. Compliance would come when they are found. At least, LE would have something to charge them with in their absence so they could pick them up on a warrant in other states. There is nothing in place now that would give LE the right to hold them or send them back to face consequences.

3)How would you prosecute? See above.

4)What would be the penalty? I think repaying the monies spent searching for them is a start. Jail time for every law they broke in the meantime would be part of that penalty.

Looking forward to your well reasoned solution.

Here is part of it!


1) I see what you are saying, but passing a law is just that, it is not implementation. LE does not pass a law. How would LE implement the law?

2) Would it be against the law to not fill out the "paperwork" if someone did not report me missing?

3) How would you prosecute these:
a) I am in college, go camping with a friend for an extended weekend without telling anyone. Parents get worried contact police. They search the campus and cannot find me. I come back on Wednesday.
b) I lose my job in Texas and become distraught. I go to Vegas for the weekend without telling friends. I decide I am going to stay in Vegas for an unknown amout of time. On Monday, I fill out my paperwork in Vegas. Friends in Texas become worried that they cannot find me, go to local police station. No paperwork on file at local police station. I change my mind and come back on Friday.
c) I am a 14 year old girl and runaway from home. I do not fill out my "paperwork". Heck, I don't know about the "paperwork" because it is not taught in school. I am found alive and well 2 weeks later.
d) I am a father of 5. I walk away without filling out my "paperwork" and am found dead 1 week later.

4) How do you calculate the cost? Is there really very much cost on many of these cases? It seems that LE does not spend time on very many adult cases without evidence of foul play.

I agree that it is frustrating that some people vanish on their own and leave others behind. It is a terrible thing to do. Your basis for making a law was money. I just don't see how it will save money once you consider the full financial impact of implementation, compliance tracking, and prosecution. These cases in out trial system alone would appear to be at a greater cost than the little effort given looking for adults missing without evidence of foul play.

[10EC_Dad]

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080305/NEWS01/803050456/1321/NEWS

From the site above:

"McDonald said the Washoe County Crime Laboratory did not err on the DNA evidence from the underwear, first reported by police as the suspect's DNA. He said it was a misstatement to the media by investigators."

I have to agree that this is dissappointing. While it does not affect the outcome of the case, it should not have been reported incorrectly. I am glad that they did not "sweep it under the rug" but rather openly took responsibilty.

[StillHoping]

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080305/NEWS01/803050456/1321/NEWS

From the site above:

"McDonald said the Washoe County Crime Laboratory did not err on the DNA evidence from the underwear, first reported by police as the suspect's DNA. He said it was a misstatement to the media by investigators."

I have to agree that this is dissappointing. While it does not affect the outcome of the case, it should not have been reported incorrectly. I am glad that they did not "sweep it under the rug" but rather openly took responsibilty.

If it was a misstatement to the media, then why was it not publicly corrected right away? People were talking about the panties for at LEAST a full week before the correction was made. I think there is something else going on here.

[SeriouslySearching]

I didn't say there weren't flaws in my system. LOL That is why we have legislators to sit down with LE to figure out the best course to plot.

I don't like that they wait until there is "proof" of foul play either. I think LE should take the word of the family and friends, along with looking at the ATM info, cell phone records,etc. to determine if FP could be involved then act accordingly. Too much time is lost on cases where they simply assume a person walked away because they are an adult. This is quite troubling to me. I want a solution to the problem or at least someone to address it.

[10EC_Dad]

If it was a misstatement to the media, then why was it not publicly corrected right away? People were talking about the panties for at LEAST a full week before the correction was made. I think there is something else going on here.

I agree that it should have been corrected immediately.

[10EC_Dad]

I didn't say there weren't flaws in my system. LOL That is why we have legislators to sit down with LE to figure out the best course to plot.

I don't like that they wait until there is "proof" of foul play either. I think LE should take the word of the family and friends, along with looking at the ATM info, cell phone records,etc. to determine if FP could be involved then act accordingly. Too much time is lost on cases where they simply assume a person walked away because they are an adult. This is quite troubling to me. I want a solution to the problem or at least someone to address it.

I wish there was a better solution also.

My point is that it is not as easy as we want it to be sometimes.

[SeriouslySearching]

If it was a misstatement to the media, then why was it not publicly corrected right away? People were talking about the panties for at LEAST a full week before the correction was made. I think there is something else going on here.It was another mistake to wait to report the second pair to begin with.

[10EC_Dad]

It was another mistake to wait to report the second pair to begin with.

Why? What makes it a mistake?

The mistake was the statement concerning the DNA.

[SeriouslySearching]

If they had not waited in the first place, there would BE no DNA mix up via the media from LE to worry about a disclaimer!

[Ca-Sun]

I agree that it should have been corrected immediately.Maybe they didn't notice the mistake. Maybe there was a reason for the misinformation. RPD knows; we don't. Like you, I just don't see any reason to continually bash the RPD when we don't really know what is going on, what they are working with and what evidence they actually have.

[10EC_Dad]

If they had not waited in the first place, there would BE no DNA mix up via the media from LE to worry about a disclaimer!

SS you have followed enough cases to know that LE can't go blabbing about everything they find at a crime scene. They had to determine if the PP thong belonged to a person known to them. The DNA mixup had nothing to do with timing.

It just seems like you are grasping for anything to slam LE.

If you really need something, focus on the fact the the mistake has now caused incrimnating evidence to be released to the public. This takes away something the the prosecution could use later.

There, I can't be more fair or make it easier than giving you a solid case to be critical of LE.

Go with it. Have fun. Peace be with you.

[SeriouslySearching]

And please tell me why they cannot use this evidence later after it is given to the public?! It does have his DNA, her DNA, and another girl's DNA in association to the case. That does not change.

They do not have to release evidence such as specifics of what he did to her body or how he positioned it...this would be something only the perp would know, too. They could even release those factors without hurting their case, imo. They have the DNA to match. They have witness accounts of the other rapes. They should have other forensics to use which will put this perp away and slam the door on him.

The panties are evidence as it relates to criminal charges later on...whether or not used to find the creep or not! To keep them from the public because it is detrimental to the case as it stands is ridiculous, imo. They need to get a lead on who this guy is and where to find the match to the DNA they have. Without that..they truly have nothing!

[TheBugHouse]

I assume you are talking about me. If I choose to post 100 times a day, I have no more clout than the person who posts once. I even have to be more careful to follow the rules because they will tos me first as I should know better. I put a lot of thought into what I post and try to stay away from "grandstanding", as you put it. My opinions do differ from other posters because we don't all see the world the same.

I am passionate about certain topics because of experience, mine and other's. If we do nothing here besides learn from people who have faced crime and violence in this lifetime in order to move forward to help prevent it occurring to someone else...I think it is a positive thing.

This site is full of people who are here because tragedy hit too close to home and they are looking for answers. Trying to find those answers, we go into areas which may be uncomfortable or even painful for some.

This isn't an editorial page, a crime novel, or a legal forum to debate case law. We deal with real life issues affecting millions of people touched by a missing loved one, a murdered friend, or others we don't even know but feel so much compassion for. We all want to help find some answers and perhaps bring a missing person home, find justice for a murdered child, or question what is wrong with this country that we have millions of people go missing without a trace. With the latter, I have serious questions about why and how this can happen time after time after time.

What are we doing wrong? How can this happen in the age of instant news, cutting edge technology, and in the most civilized society in the world? Go look at the faces of our missing or unidentified. Pages and pages and pages of people who have vanished seemingly into thin air. Where are they and how can we bring them home? Who are the people responsible? What can we learn from one case to apply to the next to prevent another tragedy? If it means questioning how LE handles a case, our perception of feeling safe in our surroundings, and how we can combat such violence...we should go down every possible avenue to find the answers.

Hiding your head in the sand and pretending that all is well with our law enforcement agencies or that the overall ills of our society are not part of the problem lacks intelligence and puts blinders on the very things which need to be fixed. We have a serious problem which needs to be addressed on many levels.
>
Thank you for proving my point.

[10EC_Dad]

>
Thank you for proving my point.

I think it is obvious that LE is doing a good job. They made a mistake in communicating the DNA and thong, corrected it, explained what caused the mistake and moved on.

[close_enough]

I think it is obvious that LE is doing a good job. They made a mistake in communicating the DNA and thong, corrected it, explained what caused the mistake and moved on.

i agree...they'll catch this guy...there's all kinds of cases out there where it's taking time, much longer than what some folks think it should take, but LE in the country are a good group of hard working men & women...they don't give up.....they'll get him; i have no doubt

[newshound81]

I think it is obvious that LE is doing a good job. They made a mistake in communicating the DNA and thong, corrected it, explained what caused the mistake and moved on.
I think we need to put some of the emphasis on the media misreporting some facts and less on the police "messing up." I'm guessing that the RGJ reporter did not check with more than one source in reporting the DNA mixup, because when the RPD later clarified it, they said that "someone" had miscommunicated that information.

[10EC_Dad]

I think we need to put some of the emphasis on the media misreporting some facts and less on the police "messing up." I'm guessing that the RGJ reporter did not check with more than one source in reporting the DNA mixup, because when the RPD later clarified it, they said that "someone" had miscommunicated that information.

True, the media has had their share of miscommunication. That is why I try to go to the LE press releases as the source of their comments. I don't know the circumstances of how the RGJ reporter received the information about DNA. I was glad to see LE correct the error and explain what happened.

[newshound81]

True, the media has had their share of miscommunication. That is why I try to go to the LE press releases as the source of their comments. I don't know the circumstances of how the RGJ reporter received the information about DNA. I was glad to see LE correct the error and explain what happened.
Yes, you pointed me to that, and I thank you for it. Trying to keep up with the jumble of information in the various media reports is difficult.

[SeriouslySearching]

>
Thank you for proving my point.I wrote this long before you even made a point.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think it is obvious that LE is doing a good job. Where is it obvious that LE is doing a good job on this particular case? It has been since Jan. 20th and there has only been one POI (man who dropped off the other girl, but was ruled out) or Suspect. I don't see any signs of solving these cases.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think we need to put some of the emphasis on the media misreporting some facts and less on the police "messing up." I'm guessing that the RGJ reporter did not check with more than one source in reporting the DNA mixup, because when the RPD later clarified it, they said that "someone" had miscommunicated that information.Actually, the media didn't "misreport" it. The panties with his DNA, Bri's DNA, and the other apt. resident did exist. LE obviously had to give them this information. They didn't simply make it up as they went along or anything. The someone who miscommunicated the information was the LE officer who mentioned this in the first place as it was a "leak" about the second pair.

[10EC_Dad]

Yes, you pointed me to that, and I thank you for it. Trying to keep up with the jumble of information in the various media reports is difficult.

You are welcome.

I recall one article from AP that stated things differently about the underwear than the LE release.

[guestwriter]

Hi, this one is for SQ!

~I admire a few posters on here. One is SQ and the other is SS. These posters have valuable insight and add much to the discussion.~

With that said, after viewing other missing persons cases from "Other possible Victims" thread, I wonder why haven't these women been in the press more? Why didn't the RPD announce the woman that was raped last October. Why the secrecy?

It wasn't until the highly profiled case of Brianna Dennsion, did RPD come out and publicly say :hey, we have a serial rapist on our hands. It is hard for me to swallow, when you have RPD, countless volunteers, and the community looking for ONE guy, and there is absolutely no leads until Bri turned up in a field one day.

I think I can speak for alot of posters here, that we are mainly very frustrated. More communication and public awareness is key, for all persons visting or living to be aware of the possibility of a violent encounter. This must be avoided and maybe, just maybe Bri would have locked that darn door!!

My understanding is Bri's family is very tied to someone in Nevada government which is why all the press about her abduction vs others floated to the top...

[KR2tonenow]

My understanding is Bri's family is very tied to someone in Nevada government which is why all the press about her abduction vs others floated to the top...

Thanks GW. Good for them, however, anything new yet in solving this serial rapist/murderer in Reno yet?

[guestwriter]

I'm not saying this is my opinion, but thought it was an interesting note to add to this discussion:

I have knowledge from someone connected to the December rape case that the police did very little follow-up on that rape. The victim was made to feel like a criminal by the questioning officers. She was made to feel like she had committed a crime, not the creep who attacked her. RPD did very little to pursue th perpetrator of that attack. It wasn't until they realized the same guy was involved in the Denison case that they began a serious search for the guy. I think a little "Oh ----, we f***ed-up" entered the picture and they have been scrambling ever since to cover their asses and find the creep. The longer this goes on, the worse it looks for them.



I read somewhere that the reason Brianna's case got such notoriety and publicity is because her family is somehow related to a high person in nevada government and I cannot recall who it is....will try and find that info if important to you...

[10EC_Dad]

I'm not saying this is my opinion, but thought it was an interesting note to add to this discussion:

I have knowledge from someone connected to the December rape case that the police did very little follow-up on that rape. The victim was made to feel like a criminal by the questioning officers. She was made to feel like she had committed a crime, not the creep who attacked her. RPD did very little to pursue th perpetrator of that attack. It wasn't until they realized the same guy was involved in the Denison case that they began a serious search for the guy. I think a little "Oh ----, we f***ed-up" entered the picture and they have been scrambling ever since to cover their asses and find the creep. The longer this goes on, the worse it looks for them.



I think it is important to understand that RGJ did not publish this in an article. This is an excerpt from a reader's comment. \There is no way to verify the validty of the comment.

[Leila]

I think we need to put some of the emphasis on the media misreporting some facts and less on the police "messing up." I'm guessing that the RGJ reporter did not check with more than one source in reporting the DNA mixup, because when the RPD later clarified it, they said that "someone" had miscommunicated that information.

I've noted the mis-statements by the various press, both locally and nationally. Just one small mis-quote, changes a lot. When LE announced the second pair of underwear - the pink underwear belonging to one of the girls living at the MacKay Court home - that was reported differently by each of the local and national media.

I think LE did the right thing by establishing a webpage to present the facts that are known. One source, the police, is far better that the media coverage.

[Leila]

My understanding is Bri's family is very tied to someone in Nevada government which is why all the press about her abduction vs others floated to the top...

Also..............the October victim didn't report her attack to the police until after Brianna was abducted. I believe she came forward around January 30th. So, the October rape wasn't even known by anyone until long after Brianna's abduction.

The November and December victims were initially reported to the UNR police, who then turned it over to the RPD.

[10EC_Dad]

Also..............the October victim didn't report her attack to the police until after Brianna was abducted. I believe she came forward around January 30th. So, the October rape wasn't even known by anyone until long after Brianna's abduction.

The November and December victims were initially reported to the UNR police, who then turned it over to the RPD.

Thanks for that info on the October victim and the timing of her coming forward.

[Rolex]

I read somewhere that the reason Brianna's case got such notoriety and publicity is because her family is somehow related to a high person in nevada government and I cannot recall who it is....will try and find that info if important to you...


The Govenor's wife's son and Brianna went to High School together.
This is the only connection; the case was getting a lot of attention before Governor's wife joined the search team - about a week before the body was found. There is no 'relation'.

[Rolex]

I'm not saying this is my opinion, but thought it was an interesting note to add to this discussion:

I have knowledge from someone connected to the December rape case that the police did very little follow-up on that rape. The victim was made to feel like a criminal by the questioning officers. She was made to feel like she had committed a crime, not the creep who attacked her. RPD did very little to pursue th perpetrator of that attack. It wasn't until they realized the same guy was involved in the Denison case that they began a serious search for the guy. I think a little "Oh ----, we f***ed-up" entered the picture and they have been scrambling ever since to cover their asses and find the creep. The longer this goes on, the worse it looks for them.



I read this on craigslist a few weeks ago as well. This is where most of the rumors are coming from. A few nights ago the local evening news had all the rumors on the show. This was one of them.

[TheBugHouse]

I wrote this long before you even made a point.
>
I don't see how thats possible considering it was a long winded response to one of my posts.

[the original tez]

I am trying to catch up on this case. Real life has been busy lately.

By and large I agree most members of LE are good and try to do the right thing. However, when my daughter's best friend came up missing (and later deceased), LE didn't do crap. They really didn't do anything until the "True Crime Blog" reported about her missing. Then, of course, they didn't want anyone to know what screw-ups they were. There was one Sheriff's Deputy, however, that was concerned and did whatever he could to help. In fact, he told me he didn't understand the city's lack of concern. LE here really didn't get serious until my daughter's friend was missing for four days!!! And then, that was only because the FBI was going to get involved! Of course, this is just my opinion, dealing with AR LE for a long time.

Back to reading...

[adnoid]

i agree...they'll catch this guy...there's all kinds of cases out there where it's taking time, much longer than what some folks think it should take, but LE in the country are a good group of hard working men & women...they don't give up.....they'll get him; i have no doubt

In an interview Brianna's mother says:

Denison said she is confident the killer will be caught.

"The Reno Police Department has been working so hard, it blows me away," she said. "He'll be caught."

Source: http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080320/NEWS01/803200337/0/NEWS18

I'd assume LE is sharing more with the family than the public, it's good the family feels that everything possible is being done.

[close_enough]

In an interview Brianna's mother says:



Source: http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080320/NEWS01/803200337/0/NEWS18

I'd assume LE is sharing more with the family than the public, it's good the family feels that everything possible is being done.

thanks for posting this....& yes, i agree, cause if LE wasn't, you can bet the family would be speaking out....jmo

[adnoid]

thanks for posting this....& yes, i agree, cause if LE wasn't, you can bet the family would be speaking out....jmo

And if the family was complaining I'd pay attention to that.

Perhaps we can come up with some sort of form that criminals are required to fill out before they commit a crime, to make it easier for the police to track them down...

[close_enough]

And if the family was complaining I'd pay attention to that.

Perhaps we can come up with some sort of form that criminals are required to fill out before they commit a crime, to make it easier for the police to track them down...

lol, YES!...wouldn't that be great...

[bigbuck]

And if the family was complaining I'd pay attention to that.

Perhaps we can come up with some sort of form that criminals are required to fill out before they commit a crime, to make it easier for the police to track them down...

Just a little heads up. Some in the family have complained. This was in THREAD#5 POSTED 2-18-08


Originally Posted by panthera http://websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1998290#post1998290)
John Zunino, Brianna's uncle, being interviewed by Nancy. He believes this could've been avoided if the DNA had been tested after the first attack.


I thought I remembered there was family in agreement when Nancy and the so called talking heads were critical of RPD.