Brianna Denison 19yo Reno NV #8

[close_enough]

Thanks Close_enough,

If the police feel pretty sure the DNA wasn't planted, I would think it would have to be DNA in the form of scrapings from under Brianna's fingernails, body fluids, or something that was the result of the attack and not something that could be planted at the scene.

exactly, Leila....i also agree with softsoul...it's amazing what they can do now....

[Leila]

Someone posted a response in the comment section of the RGJ after the story about the revised description of the suspect who killed Brianna and attacked two others. The person states that two girls were attacked in Lake Tahoe recently near one of the casinos, and that DNA of the rapist was linked to the DNA of the suspect in the Brianna Denison case.

The poster's username is Myrgj08 and the response was posted today 03-27-08.

http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080322/NEWS/803220332/0/NEWS18

[Reannan]

Well gosh! Maybe LE can make the connection between the cases!!! I sure hope so. If we don't see any news conferences or news reports in the press, maybe we need to clue Reno LE in on the Lake Tahoe incident. :rolleyes: P.S. Thanks Leila for the update! Much appreciated!

[close_enough]

Someone posted a response in the comment section of the RGJ after the story about the revised description of the suspect who killed Brianna and attacked two others. The person states that two girls were attacked in Lake Tahoe recently near one of the casinos, and that DNA of the rapist was linked to the DNA of the suspect in the Brianna Denison case.

The poster's username is Myrgj08 and the response was posted today 03-27-08.

http://www.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080322/NEWS/803220332/0/NEWS18

interesting, for sure....hmmm

[panthera]

Happy Birthday, Brianna ~

http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080328/NEWS18/80328047&OAS_sitepage=news.rgj.com%2Fbreakingnews

[Reannan]

The first birthday after a child has died would be horrible, but much more so if the child was taken because of an act like this. We need to find this POS.

[Invisible]

Oh, thanks, for posting that Panthera. I am sure this is a tough day for her family. Sad.

[Blink34]

I feel that there is something to be gained from the previous victim of this assailant that he "returned to her home." If the coverage on the Dateline episode is accurate, the fact that the rapist came back to the victim's apartment and attempted to break in a second time a few hours before assaulting/abducting Briana is crucial to this case. The fact that he went back there and tried to break in when he approached from behind in the initial abduction and let her go, and now is attempting a direct confrontation means something; possibly both psychologically about the assailant and/or the tie to the selection of the first victim.
My heart goes out to her Mom and family-
SS

[newshound81]

Doesn't fit the normal procedure, but it's geogprahically close

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695265803,00.html

[dee10134]

I feel that there is something to be gained from the previous victim of this assailant that he "returned to her home." If the coverage on the Dateline episode is accurate, the fact that the rapist came back to the victim's apartment and attempted to break in a second time a few hours before assaulting/abducting Briana is crucial to this case. The fact that he went back there and tried to break in when he approached from behind in the initial abduction and let her go, and now is attempting a direct confrontation means something; possibly both psychologically about the assailant and/or the tie to the selection of the first victim.
My heart goes out to her Mom and family-
SS


I just had a thought.... maybe he returned back to the first victim's apartment to steal her panties! That would explain the panty thing... Maybe LE should be looking into recent break-ins, if they haven't already...

[newshound81]

Doesn't fit the normal procedure, but it's geogprahically close

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695265803,00.html
Sorry, meant to post this in the "possibly related' section...

[gardenmom]

exactly, Leila....i also agree with softsoul...it's amazing what they can do now....

Here's a thought. If the guy had oily skin and he pressed his face up against the window he would have left oil behind.

[panthera]

Here's a thought. If the guy had oily skin and he pressed his face up against the window he would have left oil behind.
I remember the sofa in the house looked like leather so he could've left oil, sweat on it and that could be the DNA they collected since it wouldn't absorb into the sofa.

[StillHoping]

I'm getting antsy about this case. I don't want to hear anything new, because the chances are it would be another abduction, but they need to catch this guy.

[newshound81]

I'm getting antsy about this case. I don't want to hear anything new, because the chances are it would be another abduction, but they need to catch this guy.
Me too, StillHoping. I am taking a trip to NV in thee weeks....it will be strange to be in the state with this case still unsolved, though I will be far from Reno in Vegas. And thankfully I will be with my SO, so I should feel safe! But it's creepy and just a shame that we don't have this guy yet.

[Blink34]

No, I was referring to the fact that he tried to break into another apartment first.

If he knew Brianna was there, it would be logical that he would focus on abducting her rather than breaking into the other apartment.

There are a couple of exceptions:

1) He looked earlier but Brianna had not arrived
2) The attempted apartment break in related to the abduction of Brianna.

IIRC- the earlier attempted breakin was with the December 16 victim, which I believe to be very important.

[Blink34]

I'm getting antsy about this case. I don't want to hear anything new, because the chances are it would be another abduction, but they need to catch this guy.

By antsy do you mean you feel like he's about to strike again?
I do too, he's not going to stay quiet for long. I dont care what anyone says I do not believe he is 6' heavy build. A man that size would not have to target 100 lb. girls from behind.
This just popped in my head- didnt the description basically say he had tan lines? In February should we consider a recent vacation or a tanning salon? Perhaps LE should target the local tanning salons within the radius?

[Leila]

Unfortunately, the police just don't have enough information on the suspect. They don't have a good description of the vehicle used in the December attack - make, model, color, and nothing concise in the way of a description of the suspect. The only thing they do have, as far as we know, is the DNA. But the DNA isn't going to help catch the perp, only to confirm him as the perp in this case once he's caught.

With so little to go on, it may be a matter, unfortunately, of another attack and hopefully a better description of the suspect and vehicle......something that will help catch the suspect.

[StillHoping]

By antsy do you mean you feel like he's about to strike again?
I do too, he's not going to stay quiet for long. I dont care what anyone says I do not believe he is 6' heavy build. A man that size would not have to target 100 lb. girls from behind.
This just popped in my head- didnt the description basically say he had tan lines? In February should we consider a recent vacation or a tanning salon? Perhaps LE should target the local tanning salons within the radius?


Yes, I do feel like he is going to attack again very soon, or he already has. Things are getting too quiet surrounding this case, and he will get his bearings again. Good thoughts on the tan-lines. Did the reports say WHERE the tan lines were? As in a farmers tan on his arms, etc.

[Blink34]

Yes, I do feel like he is going to attack again very soon, or he already has. Things are getting too quiet surrounding this case, and he will get his bearings again. Good thoughts on the tan-lines. Did the reports say WHERE the tan lines were? As in a farmers tan on his arms, etc.
I'll dig it out later, but I want to say I understood it to say he had tan forearms and was white on his lower torso like swimtrunks or shorts.

I completely agree, I think this guy is very dangerous and will not be easy to catch. Hope somebody hears me on the issue of him returning to the prior vic apartment and attempting a break in prior to Bri assault.
For how careful he was, that does not fit- I wonder if they have tested the underwear ( the mystery owned pair) against her DNA- maybe he's stringing the cases?

[softsoul]

I'll dig it out later, but I want to say I understood it to say he had tan forearms and was white on his lower torso like swimtrunks or shorts.

I completely agree, I think this guy is very dangerous and will not be easy to catch. Hope somebody hears me on the issue of him returning to the prior vic apartment and attempting a break in prior to Bri assault.
For how careful he was, that does not fit- I wonder if they have tested the underwear ( the mystery owned pair) against her DNA- maybe he's stringing the cases?

Hey Blink-
The description of the perp states:
"A male that appeared to be Caucasian with the skin on his abdomen, groin, and upper legs noticeably lighter in color than the skin on his hands."

It seems like if it were a tanning bed his abdomen would be tanned as well...at least darker than the groin and upper legs. But who knows...he is beyond odd in other ways so I won't rule it out.:loser:

Also, I'm pretty sure they have said the DNA on the PP undies was not from a prior victim. I'll check to see if I can find that info.

[Blink34]

I guess I'm interpreting that incorrectly- I "projected" what happens to my hubby when he's in the sun and since the shorts cover waist down and it mentions tops of his legs and not his lower legs, but after I think about it there might be a more graphic explanation as to the way the crime (being sensitive about my word choice) occurred. ANything about whether he removed his pants completely?
ETA: Does anyone now if they release where the perp got the panties of Bri's friend? Were they located on the first floor laundry or in a hamper in her room- I'm thinking they witheld that for a reason

[panthera]

It seems like if it were a tanning bed his abdomen would be tanned as well...at least darker than the groin and upper legs. But who knows...he is beyond odd in other ways so I won't rule it out.:loser:

Also, I'm pretty sure they have said the DNA on the PP undies was not from a prior victim. I'll check to see if I can find that info.
I think it's more likely the tan arms were left over from working/being outdoors during the summer or maybe he's from another area where the sun would still be shining in December. A tanning bed would leave a uniform tan all over, unless he was wearing clothing while in the bed which would defeat the purpose anyway.

[panthera]

Is anyone watching Nancy's show tonight? There's a missing girl in Salt Lake City, Utah who is Asian and 7 y/o. I'm just mentioning it here since that would be east on Interstate 80 from Reno. I hope she's found safe and her disappearance isn't connected to this case, but it's also not impossible this perp has relocated and he is over due. Any thoughts? :(

[Leila]

I guess I'm interpreting that incorrectly- I "projected" what happens to my hubby when he's in the sun and since the shorts cover waist down and it mentions tops of his legs and not his lower legs, but after I think about it there might be a more graphic explanation as to the way the crime (being sensitive about my word choice) occurred. ANything about whether he removed his pants completely?
ETA: Does anyone now if they release where the perp got the panties of Bri's friend? Were they located on the first floor laundry or in a hamper in her room- I'm thinking they witheld that for a reason

Blink.............the police have only stated that the pink underwear belonged to one of the girls living at the MacKay Court house. They didn't say where the perp may have taken them from.

Many of us here have been speculating on how the perp may have taken them. We've wondered if they were taken from a laundry hamper or basket? Did the perp enter the house when no one was home and steal them? Were the pink underwear left on the floor in a pile of laundry? Is there a laundry room in the MacKay Court house?

These are some of the things we've discussed.

[Blink34]

Is anyone watching Nancy's show tonight? There's a missing girl in Salt Lake City, Utah who is Asian and 7 y/o. I'm just mentioning it here since that would be east on Interstate 80 from Reno. I hope she's found safe and her disappearance isn't connected to this case, but it's also not impossible this perp has relocated and he is over due. Any thoughts? :(
I'm not aware of any case or serial rapist profile that crosses over between adult woman and female children, they tend to either be a pedophile or the other-
However, as I stated earlier, I agree he's overue from a profile perspective and Im overall worried about this creep

[panthera]

I'm not aware of any case or serial rapist profile that crosses over between adult woman and female children, they tend to either be a pedophile or the other-
However, as I stated earlier, I agree he's overue from a profile perspective and Im overall worried about this creep
I was wondering about the cross over, and thanks for the answer. It just got my attention because of the little girl being Asian (the Dec. victim was from Taiwan) and having long dark hair. I too think he's overdue and that worries me he may be desperate ~ and I also think it's very possible he's not in Reno. :)

[Blink34]

I read that when these guys get a litle too close to the flame so to speak (there is a description and you have to think some of our theories are right and I guarantee you he is watching every move on this) that they pull back a little, or change their MO. If this guy is as insidious and "organized" as he appears you will see him act out in another way. Unless of course these are motivated differently as in they were targeted as some sort of retribution which I do not believe.
SOrry to sound like a broken record, but the revisit to the Dec victim is critical to this case, Im sure of it. ANother thing that bugs me, why go to the trouble of shaving everything and then leave DNA? He's smarter than that. Has the first attempted victim been conclusively linked to him via DNA?

You can also bet he's not in a relationship because the complete shaving description on a man is not that common. Does anyone know if there is any medical condition possibly responsible for this issue?

[Rick777]

I think that when this guy strikes again he will make sure we all know it's him. I don't see him striking in a random, uneventful way. I think he wants credit for his acts.

[philamena]

Rhetorical question, Why is waiting to attack again?
Maybe he thinks LE already knows his identity.

[Reannan]

I bet this guy is about to burst at the seams by now....he can't stand the wait much longer. Blink34, welcome to WS's! We have discussed the delicate issue of shaving ad nauseum. Apparently, it IS common. Besides, he may not be shaved anymore - that would be another reason for him to be busting at the seams, huh? :crazy:

[EnvoyDriver61]

I bet the guy started out in different areas to release his tension, get his kicks, etc (porn or prostitutes) and then escalated to real women with his spree. I think he may be both repulsed and excited about killing Brianna. I don't think he went to that level and won't go back. He appears to be methodical, and believes he has great self-control or self-command, as evidenced by his grooming habits, IMO.

I think he has returned to whatever he did in the beginning, thinking he can master his impulse. I'm sure the guy is a bundle of nerves in real life, trying very hard to show self-control in his daily routine, but is having a very active fantasy life.

[newshound81]

I'm not aware of any case or serial rapist profile that crosses over between adult woman and female children, they tend to either be a pedophile or the other-
However, as I stated earlier, I agree he's overue from a profile perspective and Im overall worried about this creep
Ted Bundy did with his last victim. She was only 12.

[Blink34]

I bet this guy is about to burst at the seams by now....he can't stand the wait much longer. Blink34, welcome to WS's! We have discussed the delicate issue of shaving ad nauseum. Apparently, it IS common. Besides, he may not be shaved anymore - that would be another reason for him to be busting at the seams, huh? :crazy:

Thanks R-
and your right, but I cant help but feeling if he is in a relationship, there's at least enough of a description, based on a person's ability to access news of course, to prompt the the thought in someone that knows him.

[Blink34]

Ted Bundy did with his last victim. She was only 12.

Which victim are you referring to?

[Blink34]

Ted Bundy did with his last victim. She was only 12.

You are correct, thank you. But as I read that, imo, my theory on that is he was on the lam at the time, had just murdered the sorority house women and simply took an opportunity as he could not control the compulsion, given the amount (that we know of) of his vics being young adult women, I would say that does not constitute a cross over mo, imo. Creepy

[panthera]

Sadly the little girl who I referred to last night was found, killed by a neighbor. So thankfully the perp who killed Brianna wasn't responsible for it, but unfortunately another innocent life was lost. :(

[Reannan]

I have followed that case Panthera. Horrible. What causes adults to think they have the right to harm a child? I know you don't have the answer - no sane person does. So sad; like Brianna's case.

[StillHoping]

This thread was SO active for months. And now, nobody has posted here today. :(

Thinking of Brianna, praying for nobody else to fall victim to this sick monster.

[Blink34]

This thread was SO active for months. And now, nobody has posted here today. :(

Thinking of Brianna, praying for nobody else to fall victim to this sick monster.

SH- has anyone run across a profile on this guy- I know Clint Van Zant made some comments on the Dateline show, but anything more formal that anyone has run across?

[SewingDeb]

I guess we're all waiting for this guy to strike again and hopefully get caught or leave more clues. I check in on this thread every day hoping for news.

Brianna deserves justice.

[newshound81]

Last night on Forensic Files, they aired an episode on the Philly serial rapist from the late 90s, early 2000s. Though I live just outside Philly, I'm not originally from here and was not yet here when this crime spree was happening. Thus, last night was the first I really heard of it.

Anyway, the guy was responsible for a series of 6 attacks in Philly, including one that ended in murder. They were in a relatively safe area, Rittenhouse Square. The perp's thing was to climb up to higher story apartments and enter through a window or sliding glass door. He would often put pillow cases over the women's heads. LE allegedly covered up the first few attacks by this guy, as they were trying to decrease their crime stats. There was a whole expose in the Inquirer.

Then the perp stopped attacking after 1999. Then, in 2001, LE heard about similar attacks being committed at Colorado State University in Ft. Collins. So they used geographic mapping to narrow it down to about 90 people who had reason to be in both Philly and Colorado.

The perp ended up being Troy Graves, a very nice looking young guy assigned to an Air Force Base in Ft. Collins Colorado, but who was originally from Philly and had worked at a bank and lived with his girlfriend, whom he eventually married and lived with at Ft. Collins, near the sites of most of the attacks. In total, between the two states, there were about 15 assaults, only one of which ended in murder (COD was strangulation).

A few things struck me about this case in relation to Bri's:

1) This is the first case that I've personally heard of where a perp attacks, but only murders once. It's possible that Bri's perp will go back to just assaulting. The Philly perp said he killed the one girl because she fought back.

2) This guy lived with a girlfriend who didn't put two-and-two together. She did eventually say that the perp had trouble sleeping and often went on walks at night, which is when he ultimately committed his crimes.

3) The perp stopped attacking for two years. His Philly crimes stopped in 1999 and the Colorado ones started in 2001.

4) LE found out that the perp started out as a peeping Tom. He was actually nabbed by some of the Air Force officials for peeping into a female member's apartment.

5) The guy was a native of where the crimes took place, but then work took him elsewhere. It has been brought up by several on this board that Bri's perp may have left Reno and that he could also be in the military. Maybe he was on leave at home when the attacks occurred, and has now gone back to his base, or been reassigned, or even been sent to Iraq.

Sorry, I know this is long, but I couldn't help but think of Bri's case when I watched the episode. I'm not hoping that attacks start occuring in other areas, but at least I feel now that if they did, the police might be able to narrow down people who had a reason to be in Reno and somewhere else.

Also, here is a story about Troy's ex-wife, Amy, who knew nothing about the attacks: http://inquirer.philly.com/packages/crime/html/042602dnwife.asp

[thefragile7393]

Awesome post Newshound, very insightful thinking in your part. Maybe this guy follows a similar line of thinking as this perp.

With all the huge publicity of Brianna, it's very possible he might just move on...people will be more careful now, more on the watch (in general) and it might just be too risky. OTOH, he may not be able to move (especially if he has family responsibilities, maybe even job) and he might just stick around and lie low and wait out a long time before attempting something again. If he can control himself that is.

[newshound81]

I know it seems Bri's perp is white, but check this out. There are similarities in the attack, though there was more than one person involved:

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/gwinnett/stories/2008/04/02/rape_0403.html

She told police a light-skinned, biracial man with reddish-brown hair and blue eyes took her to an unknown location in a dark-colored, extended cab pickup truck.

Afterwards, the suspect dropped her off at the same place where he abducted her, police said.

I'll post this in the possibly related cases thread as well.

[newshound81]

Somehow I missed this this morning, but LE has now also released an update description of the perp's vehicle: http://www.cityofreno.com/index.aspx?recordid=1465&page=1421

[newshound81]

sexual assault that occurred in the parking lot at 1425 North Virginia Street between 4:30 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. on December 16.

LE has never before released that the Dec. 16 victim was assaulted in the parking lot of her apartment complex. Previous reports said she was driven to a location a short distance away.

Interesting. I wonder how they're jogging this girl's memory. Or maybe others have come forward saying that they saw something odd the night of her attack.

[newshound81]

sexual assault that occurred in the parking lot at 1425 North Virginia Street between 4:30 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. on December 16.

LE has never before released that the Dec. 16 victim was assaulted in the parking lot of her apartment complex. Previous reports said she was driven to a location a short distance away.

Interesting. I wonder how they're jogging this girl's memory. Or maybe others have come forward saying that they saw something odd the night of her attack.
OK, sorry, I'm posting in rapid fire mode today and I'm not meaning to hog up the board, but I really find this strange. It appears that the perp took the vic in front of her apartment, took her into his car, drove probably a few hundred feet away to another area of the complex's parking lot, then drove a few hundred feet back to the front of her apartment to drop her off. Why would he a) assault her right in the parking lot, not somewhere more remote and b) drop her off instead of just telling her to get out of the car?

I had first noticed on Dateline that the Dec. 16 actually lived in a multi-floor apartment building, not a house as I believe had been previously reported. So I'm thinking the perp must have watched which apartment she went into after he was done with her for him to return for the Jan. 19 break-in. But that's still a huge risk to take that other people in the other apartments might have seen/heard him. This guy is now totally brazen to me IMO.

Also, notice in the updated vehicle description that the car may have been borrowed by the perp. Do you think he did that to throw LE off? Combine that with the mystery panties found with Bri's body, and this guy may have LE looking for the wrong people.

[Blink34]

OK, sorry, I'm posting in rapid fire mode today and I'm not meaning to hog up the board, but I really find this strange. It appears that the perp took the vic in front of her apartment, took her into his car, drove probably a few hundred feet away to another area of the complex's parking lot, then drove a few hundred feet back to the front of her apartment to drop her off. Why would he a) assault her right in the parking lot, not somewhere more remote and b) drop her off instead of just telling her to get out of the car?

I had first noticed on Dateline that the Dec. 16 actually lived in a multi-floor apartment building, not a house as I believe had been previously reported. So I'm thinking the perp must have watched which apartment she went into after he was done with her for him to return for the Jan. 19 break-in. But that's still a huge risk to take that other people in the other apartments might have seen/heard him. This guy is now totally brazen to me IMO.

Also, notice in the updated vehicle description that the car may have been borrowed by the perp. Do you think he did that to throw LE off? Combine that with the mystery panties found with Bri's body, and this guy may have LE looking for the wrong people.

newshound- excellent work.
I have said from the beginning of this case that the fact that this perp went back to her house to break in before Bri's assault is critical- The descr. has changed 2x that I am aware of and now the victim has moved to Tiawan. I think the Dec victim is key to this guy's apprehension. I have to review this again when I have time, feel like I'm missing something

[softsoul]

newshound- The perp took the Dec. victim's driver's license and car keys. He could have gotten her address from her license. I agree that his returning to her apartment says a lot about his frame of mind. The Dateline program said he used such force that he bowed the door. Not only was he taking a big risk but he was determined and likely in a rage. He is one sick individual whose selfishness makes him very dangerous.

[Blink34]

Does anyone know when the Dec vic went to Taiwan and when the description changed?

[txsvicki]

sexual assault that occurred in the parking lot at 1425 North Virginia Street between 4:30 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. on December 16.

LE has never before released that the Dec. 16 victim was assaulted in the parking lot of her apartment complex. Previous reports said she was driven to a location a short distance away.

Interesting. I wonder how they're jogging this girl's memory. Or maybe others have come forward saying that they saw something odd the night of her attack.

Does the attack occuring between 4:30 and 9:00 a.m. mean that the victim was kept that long? That's 4 1/2 hours covering light and dark hours.

[softsoul]

Does anyone know when the Dec vic went to Taiwan and when the description changed?

I'm not sure exactly when she returned to Taiwan but it was reported she had already left by the time he tried to break into her apartment in January. There was someone in the apartment during the attempted break in but it was not the December victim. I'm not sure if she had a roommate or if someone else had already moved in by that time.

[softsoul]

Does the attack occuring between 4:30 and 9:00 a.m. mean that the victim was kept that long? That's 4 1/2 hours covering light and dark hours.

I hadn't noticed that time line before but that is horrible to think about. I do know that she was beaten so badly that the doctor who attended to her told the police that this perp would likely kill his next victim. Unfortunately, he/she was right.

[Leila]

I'm not sure exactly when she returned to Taiwan but it was reported she had already left by the time he tried to break into her apartment in January. There was someone in the apartment during the attempted break in but it was not the December victim. I'm not sure if she had a roommate or if someone else had already moved in by that time.

I'm wondering if the Dec. victim went home to Taiwan for both winter break and to recuperate from her injuries. While home in Taiwan she, along with her family, decided she wouldn't return to Reno after classes resumed. If she was undecided about whether or not to return, certainly the kidnapping and murder of Brianna Denison, convinced her she shouldn't return.

Although the December victim was able to describe the interior of the vehicle she was assaulted in, there's not enough identifying information about the exterior of the vehicle. People driving in Reno don't have much to go on - a darker colored extended cab pickup truck. There has to be thousands of them.

I really think it's going to take another attack or an incredible stroke of luck to find the perp.

[panthera]

Somehow I missed this this morning, but LE has now also released an update description of the perp's vehicle: http://www.cityofreno.com/index.aspx?recordid=1465&page=1421
Thanks newshound! :) It's possible the back seat could've been folded down so the victim didn't think there was one.

[panthera]

Does the attack occuring between 4:30 and 9:00 a.m. mean that the victim was kept that long? That's 4 1/2 hours covering light and dark hours.
That confused me too since it was Brianna who was abducted between the same hours ~ 4:30am when she last text messaged her boyfriend and 9:00am when the roommates got up and found her missing.

[FXSTS]

That confused me too since it was Brianna who was abducted between the same hours ~ 4:30am when she last text messaged her boyfriend and 9:00am when the roommates got up and found her missing.
That's a good point. Was it a 4.5 hour crime/abduction or are they not sure when it occurred? Maybe neither one and the person that wrote this is confused.

What I find most frustrating about this is this.;
when thousands of people were looking for this guy in the weeks immediately following the abduction, they/we were looking for a very small perp with a large truck. Now that the blue ribbons are few and far between, and the case is as cold as a naked witch in the antarctic, we're( they) are looking for a man with a large build that could be 6'4" and a small to mid size truck.WTF?!

IMHO, wouldn't it have been better to say" Hey, we just don't have a description but who the he## owns these panties? Is there anyone out there that discounted a possible suspect because the description of the suspect AND the vehicle weren't even close? All it would have taken was one possible suspect and one suspecting person that said to herself" Yeah , the guy is really strange at times and I can see him doing this but nothing matches,Oh, well." Do you think she keeps checking websites and news stories to keep updated on "descriptor" changes? Nope.

I'm disappointed and frustrated and if my skateboard gets stolen I won't be depending on LE to get it back for me, that's for darn sure.

I check this site everyday and I reluctantly agree with alot of you that we may have to wait for another victim. There is very little else to say at this point. Whoever perpetrated these crimes is a psychotic POS. That I think we all agree on.

[panthera]

That's a good point. Was it a 4.5 hour crime/abduction or are they not sure when it occurred? Maybe neither one and the person that wrote this is confused.

What I find most frustrating about this is this.;
when thousands of people were looking for this guy in the weeks immediately following the abduction, they/we were looking for a very small perp with a large truck. Now that the blue ribbons are few and far between, and the case is as cold as a naked witch in the antarctic, we're( they) are looking for a man with a large build that could be 6'4" and a small to mid size truck.WTF?!

IMHO, wouldn't it have been better to say" Hey, we just don't have a description but who the he## owns these panties? Is there anyone out there that discounted a possible suspect because the description of the suspect AND the vehicle weren't even close? All it would have taken was one possible suspect and one suspecting person that said to herself" Yeah , the guy is really strange at times and I can see him doing this but nothing matches,Oh, well." Do you think she keeps checking websites and news stories to keep updated on "descriptor" changes? Nope.

I'm disappointed and frustrated and if my skateboard gets stolen I won't be depending on LE to get it back for me, that's for darn sure.

I check this site everyday and I reluctantly agree with alot of you that we may have to wait for another victim. There is very little else to say at this point. Whoever perpetrated these crimes is a psychotic POS. That I think we all agree on.
I'll have to look back, but I didn't think the time line for the Dec. 16 attack was the same as for Brianna's abduction/murder. I also noticed the description of the perp/truck seems to have been reversed (small man/big truck to big man/small truck), and maybe that's from some miscommunication between LE and the victim? Whatever, I agree that the discrepancy might have stopped someone from calling in a tip but hopefully someday soon he'll be caught.

[guestwriter]

sexual assault that occurred in the parking lot at 1425 North Virginia Street between 4:30 a.m. and 9:00 a.m. on December 16.

LE has never before released that the Dec. 16 victim was assaulted in the parking lot of her apartment complex. Previous reports said she was driven to a location a short distance away.

Interesting. I wonder how they're jogging this girl's memory. Or maybe others have come forward saying that they saw something odd the night of her attack.

I believe she is being hypnotized.....the info on the inside of the vehicle is detailed...to remember those things one has to be hypnotized...

[philamena]

I believe she is being hypnotized.....the info on the inside of the vehicle is detailed...to remember those things one has to be hypnotized...

Interesting....I asked someone that after reading the updated description. Sounds like she was hypnotized to me too. The new description is much more detailed.

[Reannan]

This case is so damned frustrating. I can't stand waiting....especially for another victim!:eek:

[SeriouslySearching]

I am waiting here for more
I am waiting by your door
I am waiting on your back steps
I am waiting in my car
I am waiting at this bar
I am waiting for your essence

http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/williams-lucinda/essence-2995.html

Chilling, isn't it? (Her lyrics are really disturbing when you read them, imo.) It reminded me of this refrain when you said you couldn't stand waiting...especially for another victim. Is that what he is thinking, too?

[softsoul]

<snip>
What I find most frustrating about this is this.;
when thousands of people were looking for this guy in the weeks immediately following the abduction, they/we were looking for a very small perp with a large truck. Now that the blue ribbons are few and far between, and the case is as cold as a naked witch in the antarctic, we're( they) are looking for a man with a large build that could be 6'4" and a small to mid size truck.WTF?!

IMHO, wouldn't it have been better to say" Hey, we just don't have a description but who the he## owns these panties? Is there anyone out there that discounted a possible suspect because the description of the suspect AND the vehicle weren't even close? All it would have taken was one possible suspect and one suspecting person that said to herself" Yeah , the guy is really strange at times and I can see him doing this but nothing matches,Oh, well." Do you think she keeps checking websites and news stories to keep updated on "descriptor" changes? Nope.

What really irks me is that they announce a PC 2 days ahead of time to tell us about the pink panties.... they know where they came from, who they belonged to and whose DNA was on them. No help to the public at all...but it helped their image in regard to the wrong info being released. HOWEVER, when information about the suspect and his vehicle is changed it is hardly a blip in the newsflash department. Do you think you might want to get people's attention on this information???? This info might actually help the public ID this POS!!! I don't mean to be too critical of LE because I'm sure this case is eating at them but in regard to what how they are using the media it seems like their image is more important than catching this creep. While I know this can't be true my frustration is getting to me as well.

[panthera]

I believe she is being hypnotized.....the info on the inside of the vehicle is detailed...to remember those things one has to be hypnotized...
I'd never thought of that, but it does seem the only way to recall the details considering how terrified she must have been when everything happened, and the pain she must have been in when he assaulted her.

[Leila]

I believe she is being hypnotized.....the info on the inside of the vehicle is detailed...to remember those things one has to be hypnotized...

You know, now that you mention it, it does sound the detail one would recall if hypnotized.

I wonder if LE would use hypnosis on the November victim too? Although she didn't see his vehicle - she was grabbed from behind and she kicked and screamed and he finally let her go and ran off. But, perhaps through hypnosis they could get a clearer description of the suspect.

[adnoid]

You know, now that you mention it, it does sound the detail one would recall if hypnotized.

I wonder if LE would use hypnosis on the November victim too? Although she didn't see his vehicle - she was grabbed from behind and she kicked and screamed and he finally let her go and ran off. But, perhaps through hypnosis they could get a clearer description of the suspect.

I do believe hypnosis is helpful, but as I understand it's tough for LE. Any defense attorney will work hard to prevent a witness that has been hypnotized from testifying and look for little errors in the hypnosis process. The general idea as I understand it is to thoroughly debrief the witness and record the testimony BEFORE hypnosis, such that the pre-hypnosis testimony can be introduced.

Imagine the horror if one of the victims was hypnotized and, under hypnosis, recalled the name of the perp from a glance at an envelope on the floor of the truck. If a defense attorney was able to get the witness disqualified because of an error in the hypnosis, the conviction could be in jeopardy. Makes me sick, but that's the risk as I understand it.

[panthera]

I do believe hypnosis is helpful, but as I understand it's tough for LE. Any defense attorney will work hard to prevent a witness that has been hypnotized from testifying and look for little errors in the hypnosis process. The general idea as I understand it is to thoroughly debrief the witness and record the testimony BEFORE hypnosis, such that the pre-hypnosis testimony can be introduced.

Imagine the horror if one of the victims was hypnotized and, under hypnosis, recalled the name of the perp from a glance at an envelope on the floor of the truck. If a defense attorney was able to get the witness disqualified because of an error in the hypnosis, the conviction could be in jeopardy. Makes me sick, but that's the risk as I understand it.
That makes sense too, so what do you think caused the Dec. victim to recall as she has? I'm thinking of the changing descriptions of his physical appearance and the truck have taken, or was this misreporting by media?

[adnoid]

That makes sense too, so what do you think caused the Dec. victim to recall as she has? I'm thinking of the changing descriptions of his physical appearance and the truck have taken, or was this misreporting by media?

Oh, I wouldn't doubt hypnosis. If I was LE and had a choice to make between finding the guy but knowing you might lose the chance to nail him and not finding the guy but preserving the ability to prosecute, I'd go for finding him. At least he'd get thrown in jail and have his DNA taken, and the world would know it was him even if a lawyer gets him off. It should keep him from doing it again. Although I look at OJ and his continued ability to abuse the women that throw themselves at him and I just wonder sometimes...

[panthera]

Oh, I wouldn't doubt hypnosis. If I was LE and had a choice to make between finding the guy but knowing you might lose the chance to nail him and not finding the guy but preserving the ability to prosecute, I'd go for finding him. At least he'd get thrown in jail and have his DNA taken, and the world would know it was him even if a lawyer gets him off. It should keep him from doing it again. Although I look at OJ and his continued ability to abuse the women that throw themselves at him and I just wonder sometimes...
Thanks for the response. :) I can't imagine what else could cause her to recall such details after the horrific experience she must have gone through and the nightmares she must still be having.

[SeriouslySearching]

I mentioned early on I wish they would use hynosis on the other victims. I see the legal ramifications, but the benefits of such would outweigh the negative legal hurdles. I think maybe the last description of the perp was the result of hypnosis and the initial description was from her natural response of mulling it over in her mind constantly drawing out details from such a horrific experience with the help of a therapist.

[Reannan]

I am waiting here for more
I am waiting by your door
I am waiting on your back steps
I am waiting in my car
I am waiting at this bar
I am waiting for your essence

http://www.cowboylyrics.com/lyrics/williams-lucinda/essence-2995.html

Chilling, isn't it? (Her lyrics are really disturbing when you read them, imo.) It reminded me of this refrain when you said you couldn't stand waiting...especially for another victim. Is that what he is thinking, too?

Wow, SS. I couldn't have said it better myself. Those lyrics are creepy - just like this guy.

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, he is a creep for certain! I think he is quite familiar with waiting on his victims...but they are random. He is just waiting for someone to fit the description of the woman he wants to attack. I don't mean to say he is stalking them, but that he is waiting for his opportunity each time. This is why he is near a campus. The numbers go up as far as finding his perfect target.

[strach304]

For those of us that followed the Laci Peterson case you'll recall that they had the neighbor under go hypnosis. They wanted more details from her about what she saw on the day Laci was supposed to have disappeared and there was a robbery right across the street.

I don't think LE's intention when using hypnosis is always meant to be given as testimony at a trial but more so used as a tool that leads to more info. It's the same thing with the use of dogs. It is an investigative tool that hopefully will give them a lead but not counted on to make it to court. That's not to say that it doesn't get used at trial but the prosecutor does have to fight for it as well as strict guidelines that have to be followed.

[Rick777]

Yes, he is a creep for certain! I think he is quite familiar with waiting on his victims...but they are random. He is just waiting for someone to fit the description of the woman he wants to attack. I don't mean to say he is stalking them, but that he is waiting for his opportunity each time. This is why he is near a campus. The numbers go up as far as finding his perfect target.


Your name looks familiar. Hmmmmm....Seriously Searching. I remember someone with a name like that that used to chat here. hmmmmm:)

[newshound81]

I bet the guy started out in different areas to release his tension, get his kicks, etc (porn or prostitutes) and then escalated to real women with his spree. I think he may be both repulsed and excited about killing Brianna. I don't think he went to that level and won't go back. He appears to be methodical, and believes he has great self-control or self-command, as evidenced by his grooming habits, IMO.

I think he has returned to whatever he did in the beginning, thinking he can master his impulse. I'm sure the guy is a bundle of nerves in real life, trying very hard to show self-control in his daily routine, but is having a very active fantasy life.
Envoy, what do you think about the idea that this perp hasn't committed actual sexual intercouse rape on any of the victims that we know of? He didn't do anything to the November vic, he made the December vic perform oral sex on him, and we don't know what he did to Bri, except that it was "sexually motivated," which to me doesn't necessarily mean she was actually raped. I keep feeling like this means that he's in a relationship and the rapes are in part a way for him to get certain sex acts (like oral sex) that he might not be getting from his SO. This falls in line with him starting with prostitutes as well--men sometimes seek them out for kinky things or things that they can't get at home. Curious on others' thoughts.

[Blink34]

Envoy, what do you think about the idea that this perp hasn't committed actual sexual intercouse rape on any of the victims that we know of? He didn't do anything to the November vic, he made the December vic perform oral sex on him, and we don't know what he did to Bri, except that it was "sexually motivated," which to me doesn't necessarily mean she was actually raped. I keep feeling like this means that he's in a relationship and the rapes are in part a way for him to get certain sex acts (like oral sex) that he might not be getting from his SO. This falls in line with him starting with prostitutes as well--men sometimes seek them out for kinky things or things that they can't get at home. Curious on others' thoughts.

You know, the forced oral sex may be yet another form of humiliation and dominance. From a perp perspective, I think one act is "taking something" and the other is "forcing humiliation." In a closed car which was locked, I think I would be more scared to fight back as in he may be going to drive me a way to my death. In an open house with friends sleeping in other rooms, I would doubt that you could force that same act without noise or resistance from Bri. I think the sexual evidence in Bri's case is critical, if she was not raped but DNA from semen was found, this guy maybe cannot get an erection in the rape scenario- which could be key? Is there any possibility there could be another player here? Some sort of sick rapist tag team?
At any rate, for the 10th time, he really scares me.

[SeriouslySearching]

Your name looks familiar. Hmmmmm....Seriously Searching. I remember someone with a name like that that used to chat here. hmmmmm:)Yes, it will be few and far between. I read here, but don't care to post on this thread anymore. I simply had something to say. :)

[newshound81]

You know, the forced oral sex may be yet another form of humiliation and dominance. From a perp perspective, I think one act is "taking something" and the other is "forcing humiliation." In a closed car which was locked, I think I would be more scared to fight back as in he may be going to drive me a way to my death. In an open house with friends sleeping in other rooms, I would doubt that you could force that same act without noise or resistance from Bri. I think the sexual evidence in Bri's case is critical, if she was not raped but DNA from semen was found, this guy maybe cannot get an erection in the rape scenario- which could be key? Is there any possibility there could be another player here? Some sort of sick rapist tag team?
At any rate, for the 10th time, he really scares me.
Valid point about the humiliation aspect. I think it's one perp. But yeah, this case is what brought me to this site for the first time, and I can't get it out of my head. I check for news on it before I even check my local paper and last night I was dreaming about it. I'm wondering how I'll feel when I travel to NV next week.

[Blink34]

Yes, it will be few and far between. I read here, but don't care to post on this thread anymore. I simply had something to say. :)

I am always interested in anything you have to say as I think your insight important to any thread. :blowkiss:

[SeriouslySearching]

I am always interested in anything you have to say as I think your insight important to any thread. :blowkiss:Awwww, thank you, Blink! :blowkiss: It means alot to me for you to say that.

[Blink34]

I meant it, I used to think I was pretty smart till I joined here, talk about little fish big pond!

[FXSTS]

" Imagine the horror if one of the victims was hypnotized and, under hypnosis, recalled the name of the perp from a glance at an envelope on the floor of the truck. If a defense attorney was able to get the witness disqualified because of an error in the hypnosis, the conviction could be in jeopardy. Makes me sick, but that's the risk as I understand it. "




Could the conviction be in jeopardy in the scenario above even with a DNA
match?. Or is it that they wouldn't be able to use the testimony from that particular witness?

[FXSTS]

Valid point about the humiliation aspect. I think it's one perp. But yeah, this case is what brought me to this site for the first time, and I can't get it out of my head. I check for news on it before I even check my local paper and last night I was dreaming about it. I'm wondering how I'll feel when I travel to NV next week.
I can empathize with you. I've never even had the slightest interest in crime solving or even 'following" crimes but for some reason that I can't figure out,this one has got me. I actually work in the same part of town and in the middle of the night to early mornings. It's also not very easy to be a guy in this part of town because I almost feel guilty for being part of the male species.( if that makes any sense). Somebody dumped some articles of clothing or something by Hwy.395 today and the first thought that crossed my mind when I saw this stuff was "TEDDY BEAR". I wasn't even thinking about the case at the time. When they solve this case I'll probably be outta here, but this website has taught me alot about the different ways that people think. It seems to me that men and women come at it from very different angles sometimes. I think every detective agency should have at least one female detective on this kind of crime.

[SeriouslySearching]

I meant it, I used to think I was pretty smart till I joined here, talk about little fish big pond!I see most of your posts and I happen to know you are very intelligent. :) I think most of us at WS were in awe of posters here when we joined and felt much the same way. Once you have been around awhile, you will realize that so much more comes into play with these cases such as personal experience. Nothing is black and white (no matter how much people want to believe it is). Nothing is always cut and dried. And nothing, including Brianna's case, is unsolvable.

[Blink34]

well said and thank you, I know this is very personal for me right now, but at the end of the day, I want it to make a difference for these people, not just feel good that I help figure something out. As Im sure is the case for all.:woohoo:
I have no idea why I chose that emoticon except that rolling around on my head right now sounds like a good idea.

[softsoul]

Envoy, what do you think about the idea that this perp hasn't committed actual sexual intercouse rape on any of the victims that we know of? He didn't do anything to the November vic, he made the December vic perform oral sex on him, and we don't know what he did to Bri, except that it was "sexually motivated," which to me doesn't necessarily mean she was actually raped. I keep feeling like this means that he's in a relationship and the rapes are in part a way for him to get certain sex acts (like oral sex) that he might not be getting from his SO. This falls in line with him starting with prostitutes as well--men sometimes seek them out for kinky things or things that they can't get at home. Curious on others' thoughts.

I wonder if he was trying to avoid leaving evidence. Oral sex requires less physical closeness and it would be easier to avoid leaving semen.

I think the brutality involved indicates it goes beyond getting sex he can't get at home. He violently beat the Dec. victim and killed Bri. This is a very angry and disturbed person.

[SeriouslySearching]

well said and thank you, I know this is very personal for me right now, but at the end of the day, I want it to make a difference for these people, not just feel good that I help figure something out. As Im sure is the case for all.:woohoo:
I have no idea why I chose that emoticon except that rolling around on my head right now sounds like a good idea.
http://bestsmileys.com/panic/1.gif Here is a more appropriate one for the way things have happened to you lately. Your world was shaken.

[Blink34]

http://bestsmileys.com/panic/1.gif Here is a more appropriate one for the way things have happened to you lately. Your world was shaken.
lol, how appropriate, thanks.

[EnvoyDriver61]

Please forgive my question; I haven't followed as closely, but was there an official release that the Dec victim was beaten badly? I thought it was a rumor that gained life and truthfulness on it's own.

Was there an official release stating exactly what the Dec victim endured?

Earlier, someone asked me if I thought it possible if the perp might have committed all of these assaults with only oral or without actual penetration-involved rape. I think it is possible.

My scenario in how the perp gets his underwear is possibly through web cam shows where he buys the underwear after a performance of some sort. It would explain the lack of someone coming forward (either through embarrassment, lack of knowledge altogether by the female who wears the underwear once and sends it to a guy, or being across the country and not putting two and two together), so given that, yes, I think he could have committed all these acts without penetration.

[panthera]

Envoy, what do you think about the idea that this perp hasn't committed actual sexual intercouse rape on any of the victims that we know of? He didn't do anything to the November vic, he made the December vic perform oral sex on him, and we don't know what he did to Bri, except that it was "sexually motivated," which to me doesn't necessarily mean she was actually raped. I keep feeling like this means that he's in a relationship and the rapes are in part a way for him to get certain sex acts (like oral sex) that he might not be getting from his SO. This falls in line with him starting with prostitutes as well--men sometimes seek them out for kinky things or things that they can't get at home. Curious on others' thoughts.
Generally speaking, this type of behavior exists not only with rapists but with some men who seek prostitutes (or even girlfriends for that matter who they might look upon as a prostitute, in their warped mind) and only want them to perform that type of sex act on them. They do not want the physical contact with the woman or to pleasure the woman, but want the woman to perform a service on them to give them pleasure. In other words, it's all about them. In this case though, he did have a box of condoms with him for the Nov. attack (which fortunately the victim got away from him) so it's possible he had intended to have more than oral sex with that victim. MOO :)

[panthera]

I meant it, I used to think I was pretty smart till I joined here, talk about little fish big pond!
Don't leave, Blink :) At one time all of us were new here and you just kind of have to wade through it sometimes.

[panthera]

You know, the forced oral sex may be yet another form of humiliation and dominance. From a perp perspective, I think one act is "taking something" and the other is "forcing humiliation." In a closed car which was locked, I think I would be more scared to fight back as in he may be going to drive me a way to my death. In an open house with friends sleeping in other rooms, I would doubt that you could force that same act without noise or resistance from Bri. I think the sexual evidence in Bri's case is critical, if she was not raped but DNA from semen was found, this guy maybe cannot get an erection in the rape scenario- which could be key? Is there any possibility there could be another player here? Some sort of sick rapist tag team?
At any rate, for the 10th time, he really scares me.
I completely agree it's about humiliation and dominance. You might also be right that he may be sexually dysfunctional and can only be stimulated by oral sex. Or he just thinks women aren't worth anything.

[guestwriter]

Generally speaking, this type of behavior exists not only with rapists but with some men who seek prostitutes (or even girlfriends for that matter who they might look upon as a prostitute, in their warped mind) and only want them to perform that type of sex act on them. They do not want the physical contact with the woman or to pleasure the woman, but want the woman to perform a service on them to give them pleasure. In other words, it's all about them. In this case though, he did have a box of condoms with him for the Nov. attack (which fortunately the victim got away from him) so it's possible he had intended to have more than oral sex with that victim. MOO :)
I watched a special on TV recently about prostitutes at the Bunny Ranch. The gals said 95% of the men that come there to the Ranch want the girls to pretend they are their girlfriend. They want the girls to sit with them and cuddle and sex is the frosting on the cake and not the reason they come...so it was an interesting perspective from the prostitute...The perp the LE are looking for in this case was obviously in the other 5% group....:rolleyes:

[panthera]

I watched a special on TV recently about prostitutes at the Bunny Ranch. The gals said 95% of the men that come there to the Ranch want the girls to pretend they are their girlfriend. They want the girls to sit with them and cuddle and sex is the frosting on the cake and not the reason they come...so it was an interesting perspective from the prostitute...The perp the LE are looking for in this case was obviously in the other 5% group....:rolleyes:
Wow that is interesting, but isn't that one of the few places it's legal? Maybe that makes a difference with the type of client who goes there. Whatever, this creep is definitely in the other 5%!

[LillyRush]

Does this remind anyone else of the Center City rapist in Philadelphia? That same perp (Troy Graves, Air Force "Airman") later moved to Colorado and became known as the Fort Collins rapist. The only reason they started to investigate him more aggressively is when he killed one of his Philadelphia rape victims, Shannon Scheiber. There are people to this day who say that they had no idea that there was a serial rapist in their area until her murder (kind of like Reno).

Shannon's murder was almost a cold case though for 2 years before he started raping women again in Fort Collins and also started writing letters to the police alluding to being the Center City rapist. Then, and only then, did they make the connection and were eventually able to arrest him.

Anyway, this reminds me so much of that and how no one started making any connections until there was a murder. I really hope that it doesn't that long to catch this creep or that he is not able to move somewhere else in the meantime.

[Snowlover77]

I am thinking this man may not be a straight man...he could be gay or a transgender type....I have nothing to support this other than a strange intuition...the shaved private area seems like something a gay man who is also a neat freak might do...the women's underwear...perhaps trying to force himself to become a heterosexual...I could be way offbase in this too. But it is something that's been in my head about this man. Anyone else want to respond?

[newshound81]

Does this remind anyone else of the Center City rapist in Philadelphia? That same perp (Troy Graves, Air Force "Airman") later moved to Colorado and became known as the Fort Collins rapist. The only reason they started to investigate him more aggressively is when he killed one of his Philadelphia rape victims, Shannon Scheiber. There are people to this day who say that they had no idea that there was a serial rapist in their area until her murder (kind of like Reno).

Shannon's murder was almost a cold case though for 2 years before he started raping women again in Fort Collins and also started writing letters to the police alluding to being the Center City rapist. Then, and only then, did they make the connection and were eventually able to arrest him.

Anyway, this reminds me so much of that and how no one started making any connections until there was a murder. I really hope that it doesn't that long to catch this creep or that he is not able to move somewhere else in the meantime.
Lilly, I had seen that case on an episode of Forensic Files last week and posted about it in post 542 on page 22 of this thread. I never really knew much about it, even though I moved to Philadelphia right after in happened. At that time, 2000, Troy was in his "limbo" phase and was getting ready to begin his Colorado attacks. Anyway, I agree with you that it's worth looking at his case, especially since he had an SO that had NO IDEA what he was doing for all that time.

[Rick777]

Awwww, thank you, Blink! :blowkiss: It means alot to me for you to say that.


hahahaha.....I created a love connection!

[SeriouslySearching]

:laugh: :laugh: hahahaha.....I created a love connection!:slap:

[lew657]

" Imagine the horror if one of the victims was hypnotized and, under hypnosis, recalled the name of the perp from a glance at an envelope on the floor of the truck. If a defense attorney was able to get the witness disqualified because of an error in the hypnosis, the conviction could be in jeopardy. Makes me sick, but that's the risk as I understand it. "
Could the conviction be in jeopardy in the scenario above even with a DNA
match?. Or is it that they wouldn't be able to use the testimony from that particular witness?


I checked with my cousin who is an ADA - her answer was YES. If the DNA was obtained with a search warrant that was issued on the basis of the information from the victim. If the victim's statements are thrown out the search warrant could be determined invalid and any evidence found is considered "poisoned fruit" in inadmissable in court.

[panthera]

I am thinking this man may not be a straight man...he could be gay or a transgender type....I have nothing to support this other than a strange intuition...the shaved private area seems like something a gay man who is also a neat freak might do...the women's underwear...perhaps trying to force himself to become a heterosexual...I could be way offbase in this too. But it is something that's been in my head about this man. Anyone else want to respond?
I've never heard of a gay man being a serial rapist/killer of young women.

[LillyRush]

Lilly, I had seen that case on an episode of Forensic Files last week and posted about it in post 542 on page 22 of this thread. I never really knew much about it, even though I moved to Philadelphia right after in happened. At that time, 2000, Troy was in his "limbo" phase and was getting ready to begin his Colorado attacks. Anyway, I agree with you that it's worth looking at his case, especially since he had an SO that had NO IDEA what he was doing for all that time.

Aha, so you caught me not having read all of the thread pages. lol Sorry, I missed your post newshound. Thanks for noticing the connection too. I actually saw the story on dateline or something a few yrs and then also used to talk to someone on these boards who had lived around Fort Collins during that time. I'd forgotten a little bit about it though, until the details came out about Brianna's murder being tied to the sexual assaults and then I just kept making mental comparisons of the two. I think it would be a great idea for the Reno le to talk le in Fort Collins and Philadelphia, just to maybe brainstorm and get some tips on catching this guy.

[Snowlover77]

I say this guy COULD be gay...I am puzzled why no-one has come forward with any concerns about their spouse being shaved in the private area/missing at odd and unusual hours, etc......seems to me women would be more apt to wonder and be suspicious and come forward about this to police than a man...where as a gay man in a relationship with one man or two, or more...wouldn't think it important because the victim is a girl. I have never heard of a serial killer/rapist being gay either but I have to say...one neevr knows in this day and age. And another thing, the deal with the underwear makes me think perhaps this is a guy who has a hatred of women and was/is not close at all to his mother...so in his mind he may be trying to identify with women on the only level he knows how to and feels comfortable with...and maybe blames his mother for his being gay. With him not having sex with any of the women he has attacked is weird also...gay men may seek oral sex from a woman but they will not have a normal sexual relationshp with a woman...no penetration at all. Everyone, please weigh in.

[Reannan]

I don't think this guy is gay. I think he may be a "neat freak", and terrified of contracting a sexually transmitted disease - but not terrified enough to avoid sex. Thus, the condoms and the oral sex.

[SeriouslySearching]

Definitely NOT gay. I do not think he is a "neat freak" either (his truck was a mess). It may be he is worried about diseases because of his SO, but also pregnancy. He doesn't mind his DNA being all over the place, but he doesn't want a child with a vic because of his narcissism (she wouldn't be "good enough" to carry his child).

I think this guy is hiding in plain sight and even flaunting it to certain people at how close he can get to the investigation, but not get caught. He thinks he is superior to everyone around him including LE.

[Snowlover77]

I just have this feeling that he might be gay. I had forgot about the condom or condoms they found...umm...I will have to give it some more thought. I do agree though that he may well be right underneath everyone's noses....

[Ispy]

I'm also new to this board and just want to say that it's nice to see so many people who have come together to brainstorm and share info to catch these creeps.

I first came across Brianna Dennison's name while watching Dr. Phil and saw her mother talking about her daughter's disappearance and eventual murder.

I was looking at another posts about attacks and wonder if it's the same person or as BLINK said could there be two attackers. In 3 of the attacks the perp is described as hispanic, clean cut, 25-40 yrs of age, 5'5"-5'9", 180-190 lbs. In two of these attacks he drives a SUV or Crew cab dually pick-up. Then in another attack the perp was described as white, 27-28 years old, 5'11", 180 pds. thin, blonde, clean shaven.

Could this perp be self-employed or work from home which gives him the ability to stalk at different hrs. The time to go and cruise around to watch his victims. At first I thought he might be a trucker (with the farmers tan), but I'm not so sure anymore. I'm also wondering if there is a SO or is this someone who has been jilted and is taking his anger out. I mean it's possible that he has a SO and he is just good at hiding things ie) BTK killer 3 decades and he even fooled his church members. Could he be living at home with older parents?

I feel he is sexually dysfunctional, started out as a peeper and has escalated and will continue to escalate. I would take a close look at the Nor-Cal rapist- (see Mar.3l/08 post by Tempusfugit) as there are similarities. Although he hasn't attacked in Reno recently he could be travelling to commit his crimes now.

I don't know why this case has touched me so. I think it was the fact that this beautiful young lady was taken from a place where she felt safe.

I hope LE gets this creep soon. I'm sure they are checking out all leads. They'll probably catch him thru something silly like a parking ticket. Just being cynical.

[SeriouslySearching]

Welcome to WS, Ispy~ The description keeps changing. He is now believed to be older, larger, taller, and have "meaty" hands which means he is carrying some weight on him. I believe they have the updated version here: http://www.cityofreno.com/index.aspx?recordid=1379&page=1421

[Blink34]

I don't think this guy is gay. I think he may be a "neat freak", and terrified of contracting a sexually transmitted disease - but not terrified enough to avoid sex. Thus, the condoms and the oral sex.

DId he wear a condom during the forced oral?

[SeriouslySearching]

They never mentioned it if he did, Blink. I highly doubt it tho.

[Blink34]

Yes, but wouldn't that be relevant? He brought condoms to first scene, she got away. Had forced oral second vic. I think using a condom for oral might mean he was either afraid to catch something or he was afraid to GIVE something- something traceable. Maybe he forgot condoms (unlikely and that necessitated the oral). However, all scenarios could go to profile. How may altruistc rapists do you know? Nevermind, scratch that, like me you dont know any rapists personally.
Do we know anything regarding the assault on Bri- the fact that police aren't saying makes me think it goes to a unique MO.
Still thinking it could be 2 or copycat, which pi**ed the real sicko off?

[Snowlover77]

What I rememebr the police caying is that Brianna was more than likely killed right there on the couch. You know she woke up and began to struggle and it was then he strangled her to quiet her down. What i am very curious about is the two pairs of panties that were found,"intertwined," by her body. And the second pair belonging to Brianna's friend..was he saying she would be the next victim? It's interesting? Why two pair of panties and why interwine them. There is something to that. No doubt. He is VERY much into himself, I believe. 2nd vic described smooth skin...he takes good care of his skin with lotions, etc...but had no distinct smell to him..no cologne or tobacco or alcohol on his breath...my husband said the description she gave of the raido is like a mobile scanner...that's interesting too. Could he be a cop or a security officer or volunteer fireman?

[Snowlover77]

I did some researching on the various types of rapists...this guy sounds like a power rapist with a signature....in that he takes something from the victim...like the panties...he contacts them after the attack...he did that with one of the victims...remember, he went back to her house..the girl from Taiwan...it also says he may live with one or both parents..has the education level of 10th grade, his mother may be aggressive and seductive, he has few friends and is socially awkward, has a menial job, but is a steady worker, has no sex partner..may be a transvestite,fetishist, exhibitionist, voyeuristic, also is interested in pornography, usually lives in close proximity of the victims, and often selects his victims in advance.
He has been quiet since he killed Brianna...but it won't last....he is about to explode, I am sure. He won't be able to control himself much longer. That is just my personal opinion.

[softsoul]

Yes, but wouldn't that be relevant? He brought condoms to first scene, she got away. Had forced oral second vic. I think using a condom for oral might mean he was either afraid to catch something or he was afraid to GIVE something- something traceable. Maybe he forgot condoms (unlikely and that necessitated the oral). However, all scenarios could go to profile. How may altruistc rapists do you know? Nevermind, scratch that, like me you dont know any rapists personally.
Do we know anything regarding the assault on Bri- the fact that police aren't saying makes me think it goes to a unique MO.
Still thinking it could be 2 or copycat, which pi**ed the real sicko off?

I think the shaved pubic area and condoms were attempts to avoid leaving evidence. I don't think he realized just how easy it is to leave DNA with all the new technology. That is why I think it is a solo act with this perp. There is no evidence of a second person but we know the same guy was involved in at least 3 attacks. The other person would have to avoid leaving any trace of himself...very unlikely IMO. In regard to a copycat, how would he have gotten the perp's DNA?

I also don't think this guy is gay. Sex with women isn't attractive at all to any gay man I've met. I can't even see it being used as a weapon by a gay man. The choice of oral sex only (if that is indeed the case) may again be an attempt to limit evidence or as a way of staying more in control of the situation. Along the lines of what SS stated, it could be that he doesn't think the women are "worthy" of penetration by him.

The one thing we all can agree on is that this is one sick POS whose motives and intents are likely beyond what any of us would consider logical.

[Blink34]

I think the fact that the 2nd pair of panties contains unknown DNA of a man and woman, he is very knowledgable about DNA evidence. Which I agree is relevent. There may be some MPD going on here, maybe that's what I'm picking up. The 2nd vic's door was almost off the hinges from a crowbar right before Bri's attack- he was trying to get something, and in my opinion knew she had already left the country. The fact that he was irate in his attempts re that break in to me, say two things, he's all about the "message" even over getting caught, and I believe Bri or the house was watched. Escalation from a nab, contained to a vehicle assault, to breaking in a house with multiple habitants, murder and removing the body is still confusing to me. I am going on a limb to say that there may have been another vic in between, or since, that has not been discovered or sadly, reported. imo

The one thing we all can agree on is that this is one sick POS whose motives and intents are likely beyond what any of us would consider logical.[/quote]

[newshound81]

I think the fact that the 2nd pair of panties contains unknown DNA of a man and woman, he is very knowledgable about DNA evidence. Which I agree is relevent. There may be some MPD going on here, maybe that's what I'm picking up. The 2nd vic's door was almost off the hinges from a crowbar right before Bri's attack- he was trying to get something, and in my opinion knew she had already left the country. The fact that he was irate in his attempts re that break in to me, say two things, he's all about the "message" even over getting caught, and I believe Bri or the house was watched. Escalation from a nab, contained to a vehicle assault, to breaking in a house with multiple habitants, murder and removing the body is still confusing to me. I am going on a limb to say that there may have been another vic in between, or since, that has not been discovered or sadly, reported. imo

The one thing we all can agree on is that this is one sick POS whose motives and intents are likely beyond what any of us would consider logical.[/quote]
I have been reading back over the articles pertaining to this case. After the December attack, it was reported in the Nevada Sagebrush, UNR's student paper, that, “The victim stated that her keys to her vehicle and residence were taken and that subject may have been prowling in the area days prior to this happening,” according to police.
I had not remembered hearing that before I reread this. If this was in fact the case, I find it so strange that NO ONE else saw anything suspicious prior to or during this attack or the others. Something signaled to this vic that this guy was strange/out of place in the area. How come no one else picked up on it? Is it because this was a foreign exhange student who hadn't been here for long? Could this guy maybe be well-known as a harmless person in the community to the rest of the UNR campus, or worse, someone who works for the school who wouldn't raise red flags if seen walking around? I just feel that something is odd with other people not detecting anything suspicious.
Also, I think the perp read the news accounts of the December attack and was angered that the vic went to police. I think he was breaking back into the apartment to try and silence her. I don't think it was reported that she had returned to Taiwan until after Bri was abducted. The perp wouldn't have known that.

http://nevadasagebrush.com/blog/2007/12/16/student-kidnapped-sexually-assaulted/

[Blink34]

I have been reading back over the articles pertaining to this case. After the December attack, it was reported in the Nevada Sagebrush, UNR's student paper, that, “The victim stated that her keys to her vehicle and residence were taken and that subject may have been prowling in the area days prior to this happening,” according to police.
I had not remembered hearing that before I reread this. If this was in fact the case, I find it so strange that NO ONE else saw anything suspicious prior to or during this attack or the others. Something signaled to this vic that this guy was strange/out of place in the area. How come no one else picked up on it? Is it because this was a foreign exhange student who hadn't been here for long? Could this guy maybe be well-known as a harmless person in the community to the rest of the UNR campus, or worse, someone who works for the school who wouldn't raise red flags if seen walking around? I just feel that something is odd with other people not detecting anything suspicious.
Also, I think the perp read the news accounts of the December attack and was angered that the vic went to police. I think he was breaking back into the apartment to try and silence her. I don't think it was reported that she had returned to Taiwan until after Bri was abducted. The perp wouldn't have known that.

http://nevadasagebrush.com/blog/2007/12/16/student-kidnapped-sexually-assaulted/[/quote]

He would have if he were watching her, and these perps tend to stick so close to the investigation, he may have that was as well.
If the vic felt he was prowling- what was that based on?

I have said from day one that the key to this guy is in the first vic. I do not feel she was so random.. not saying she was aware of him.The actual offense (oral) might support that. IMO, I see that as relative. Also the fact that she left the country- is there any evidence that was planned? I dont think so because didnt police go there for more info?

[newshound81]

I have been reading back over the articles pertaining to this case. After the December attack, it was reported in the Nevada Sagebrush, UNR's student paper, that, “The victim stated that her keys to her vehicle and residence were taken and that subject may have been prowling in the area days prior to this happening,” according to police.
I had not remembered hearing that before I reread this. If this was in fact the case, I find it so strange that NO ONE else saw anything suspicious prior to or during this attack or the others. Something signaled to this vic that this guy was strange/out of place in the area. How come no one else picked up on it? Is it because this was a foreign exhange student who hadn't been here for long? Could this guy maybe be well-known as a harmless person in the community to the rest of the UNR campus, or worse, someone who works for the school who wouldn't raise red flags if seen walking around? I just feel that something is odd with other people not detecting anything suspicious.
Also, I think the perp read the news accounts of the December attack and was angered that the vic went to police. I think he was breaking back into the apartment to try and silence her. I don't think it was reported that she had returned to Taiwan until after Bri was abducted. The perp wouldn't have known that.

http://nevadasagebrush.com/blog/2007/12/16/student-kidnapped-sexually-assaulted/

He would have if he were watching her, and these perps tend to stick so close to the investigation, he may have that was as well.
If the vic felt he was prowling- what was that based on?

I have said from day one that the key to this guy is in the first vic. I do not feel she was so random.. not saying she was aware of him.The actual offense (oral) might support that. IMO, I see that as relative. Also the fact that she left the country- is there any evidence that was planned? I dont think so because didnt police go there for more info?[/quote]


Blink, that's the only article where I've seen it mentioned that the December vic thought the perp might have been trolling around prior to her assault, and it doesn't elaborate beyond that quote. I am with you on there being a lot to glean from this victim.

I'm wondering more too about the truck and the more recent statement that it might not have belonged to the perp. Is this something the victim told police? Did he say something during the assault that indicated the car might not be his, like, 'Don't get blood on the seat?' And what does it mean that he could have "had access to" the vehicle? To me, that makes it seem like it's a friend's, relative's or work truck. Maybe this truck wasn't even involved in Bri's case.

[Blink34]

He would have if he were watching her, and these perps tend to stick so close to the investigation, he may have that was as well.
If the vic felt he was prowling- what was that based on?

I have said from day one that the key to this guy is in the first vic. I do not feel she was so random.. not saying she was aware of him.The actual offense (oral) might support that. IMO, I see that as relative. Also the fact that she left the country- is there any evidence that was planned? I dont think so because didnt police go there for more info?


Blink, that's the only article where I've seen it mentioned that the December vic thought the perp might have been trolling around prior to her assault, and it doesn't elaborate beyond that quote. I am with you on there being a lot to glean from this victim.

I'm wondering more too about the truck and the more recent statement that it might not have belonged to the perp. Is this something the victim told police? Did he say something during the assault that indicated the car might not be his, like, 'Don't get blood on the seat?' And what does it mean that he could have "had access to" the vehicle? To me, that makes it seem like it's a friend's, relative's or work truck. Maybe this truck wasn't even involved in Bri's case.[/quote]

What is the description of the first attempted victim where they found the condoms and was it on the condoms they found the matching dna?

[DeltaDawn]

First, just to set the record start, at the time he came back to the Dec vics apartment, the early hours of the same day Bri was taken ..she ( the Dec vic) was still there..she is the one that called in the 911 report about someone breaking into her apartment. Needless to say I would have left the country ASAP after that too.

Secondly..I am wondering..is this a younger perp that does have a child, but not a significant other..meaning he was not as emotionally attached to the woman who may have his child? The small childs shoe leads to a small child being in the truck. But..many younger man believe a girlfriend when she says she is taking birth control..maybe she wasn't. This led him to not trust woman in relationships..and to use condums. It also went way beyond that to no relationships..just rape for his physical needs.

Far fetched I know..but there is a reason that he had condoms present at the first attack we know of...he may come from a very well to do family and they may have impressed this upon him after a child support issue came forward. To keep his pants zipped or take procautions. Again speculation on my part.

Maybe he doesn't trust women in a relationship any longer, therefore the rapes.

[panthera]

I think the shaved pubic area and condoms were attempts to avoid leaving evidence. I don't think he realized just how easy it is to leave DNA with all the new technology. That is why I think it is a solo act with this perp. There is no evidence of a second person but we know the same guy was involved in at least 3 attacks. The other person would have to avoid leaving any trace of himself...very unlikely IMO. In regard to a copycat, how would he have gotten the perp's DNA?

I also don't think this guy is gay. Sex with women isn't attractive at all to any gay man I've met. I can't even see it being used as a weapon by a gay man. The choice of oral sex only (if that is indeed the case) may again be an attempt to limit evidence or as a way of staying more in control of the situation. Along the lines of what SS stated, it could be that he doesn't think the women are "worthy" of penetration by him.

The one thing we all can agree on is that this is one sick POS whose motives and intents are likely beyond what any of us would consider logical.
I completely agree with this, especially the part about his opinion of women that they aren't "worthy". We still don't know what happened to Brianna as far as a sexual assault goes though and there may be some reason we don't know of why the Dec. victim was only forced to perform oral sex. I just can't see him being anything but a heterosexual monster.

[panthera]

First, just to set the record start, at the time he came back to the Dec vics apartment, the early hours of the same day Bri was taken ..she ( the Dec vic) was still there..she is the one that called in the 911 report about someone breaking into her apartment. Needless to say I would have left the country ASAP after that too.

Secondly..I am wondering..is this a younger perp that does have a child, but not a significant other..meaning he was not as emotionally attached to the woman who may have his child? The small childs shoe leads to a small child being in the truck. But..many younger man believe a girlfriend when she says she is taking birth control..maybe she wasn't. This led him to not trust woman in relationships..and to use condums. It also went way beyond that to no relationships..just rape for his physical needs.

Far fetched I know..but there is a reason that he had condoms present at the first attack we know of...he may come from a very well to do family and they may have impressed this upon him after a child support issue came forward. To keep his pants zipped or take procautions. Again speculation on my part.

Maybe he doesn't trust women in a relationship any longer, therefore the rapes.
After reading through your post, I thought of something else regarding him having a child. There are some weirdos out there who won't have sex with their wife/girlfriend after she's had a baby. It doesn't make much sense, but one now-deceased celebrity comes to mind who's ex-wife said this about him in an interview a few months ago.

[Ispy]

Does anyone know what nationality the other victim(s) are? Just curious? I'm still puzzled as to how he obtained the housemate's underwear.

I googled the Nor-Cal rapist yesterday and found that he likes to attack asian women, break into their home, description of the both attackers are similar?????

[Snowlover77]

Ispy, I am very curious about how he got his hands on those panties too. And the only description I ever heard from reports was they were pink..I looked back and read some other articles but couldn't find any relating to the second pair of underwear. If it is true that the 2 pairs of panties were,"Interwined,"..that to me seems like some sort of message he is leaving and wants everyone to know. I guess those underwear could have belonged to the roomate but Brianna may have been wearing them..I don't thinks news reports haven't sreported too mcuh about that second pair. That is curious too. Anyone remember what exactly they said about that 2nd pair..other than they were interwined.

[softsoul]

Ispy, I am very curious about how he got his hands on those panties too. And the only description I ever heard from reports was they were pink..I looked back and read some other articles but couldn't find any relating to the second pair of underwear. If it is true that the 2 pairs of panties were,"Interwined,"..that to me seems like some sort of message he is leaving and wants everyone to know. I guess those underwear could have belonged to the roomate but Brianna may have been wearing them..I don't thinks news reports haven't sreported too mcuh about that second pair. That is curious too. Anyone remember what exactly they said about that 2nd pair..other than they were interwined.

Yes, the 2nd pair is another mystery. I just can't bring myself to believe that Bri would be wearing a friend's underwear, especially if they were dirty. I'm not sure if they can get DNA after something has been washed or not. Unless the undies were just lying there on the floor or there is a laundry area that he passed by, I just can't see him taking the time to look for underwear during the abduction. That would mean he had to have been in the house another time. Maybe the night before when all the girls were behind a locked door? Maybe earlier that night when they weren't home?

I've heard that the underwear were intertwined with Bri's body and I've also heard they were intertwined with each other on or near her body. I'm not really sure.

[newshound81]

So, I posted last week about Troy Graves, the Center City rapist. Philly still has one serial rapist/muderer on the loose, and they aired it on the news last night that he's been on the loose for five years.

In all, DNA has linked him to 3 rapes, one attempted rape and one murder. All attacks took place in park settings against women who were jogging or walking. After attacking the women, he sometimes tries to console them. This guy actually varied from his hunting grounds last year by attacking someone jogging in a park in a different area of the city. Police have said that he might appear "normal" to people, yet despite a sketch, no one has been apprehended.

I bring this perp up because it's another case of a rapist murdering only on of his victims, in this case, his second one. We have talked a lot about progression is Bri's case, but now we have two cases that we can look at where the perp didn't continue killing. I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on this.

[softsoul]

So, I posted last week about Troy Graves, the Center City rapist. Philly still has one serial rapist/muderer on the loose, and they aired it on the news last night that he's been on the loose for five years.

In all, DNA has linked him to 3 rapes, one attempted rape and one murder. All attacks took place in park settings against women who were jogging or walking. After attacking the women, he sometimes tries to console them. This guy actually varied from his hunting grounds last year by attacking someone jogging in a park in a different area of the city. Police have said that he might appear "normal" to people, yet despite a sketch, no one has been apprehended.

I bring this perp up because it's another case of a rapist murdering only on of his victims, in this case, his second one. We have talked a lot about progression is Bri's case, but now we have two cases that we can look at where the perp didn't continue killing. I'm curious to hear others' thoughts on this.

Good points NH. Profiles can only provide a probable description of these disturbed men. The fact that they are obviously demented in and of itself make them unpredictable. They just don't think like us "normal" people but are able to act the part very well. Bri's killer could continue to attack and escalate his violence or he may never kill again. The probability of him raping again is extremely high but who really knows. It could be years before he is ever identified, or worse he may never be apprehended. I'm not expecting any resolution in the near future but I hope I'm wrong and LE is hot on his trail. With no really new information it is hard to tell if they are making progress. What is the time frame before a case is officially considered "cold?"

[LookOut]

Good point! He may even have had enough for himself to handle, possibly might stop trying to rape and kill ever again....

[Ispy]

Could the intertwined underwear mean that this perp is connected somehow to Brianna, her friend and also the people whose DNA is on the other pair of underwear. Maybe the perp was known to Brianna and he killed her because she recognized him.

[Snowlover77]

Anything is possible, Ispy. Or maybe he wanted to be connected with her and in his mind, the interwining of the undwear could signify something known to ONLY him. It is something to think about. For himt to take the time to intertwine the underwear lets us know that it was important to him. Now we are trying to figure out what it means. When I think of intertwined, I think of the word TOGETHER...I posted a few days ago that perhaps it was a message to Brianna's friend that she would be his next victim. Or maybe he enjoys the idea of two women having sex and the intertwining of the underwear is the way he expresses that feeling...I wonder how much he is into porn. I am willing to say he is pretty into it.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think intertwined means he used them to strangle her and has no hidden meaning.

[Ispy]

SS, what is curious to me is why did he needed 2 pairs of underwear to strangle her. I mean he could have used his hands. That's why I feel the underwear means something. Maybe I'm reading too much into it.

I think the victims of the previous rapes might be able to come up with more info. As someone else said in a previous post, if they are hypnotized they may remember more. It's probably a very slow process trying to get them to remember details. Remember Elizabeth Smart's little sister who remembered who her sister's kidnapper was.

I'm a real true crime nut and love reading those type of books, my mind works like crazy trying to think of the why's and wherefors. I probably should have studied criminal psychology.

[SeriouslySearching]

Maybe one pair wasn't long enough, but knotted together they made a viable ligature.

[txsvicki]

I'm not sure two small pairs of panties would be long enough to strangle a person, and wouldn't they have been found tightly twisted around the neck instead of near the body as they said. I don't know about the pink pair, but one was a little thong. Maybe he used them as binding for wrists.

[SeriouslySearching]

They are not going to release where they actually found them especially if he used them to strangle her.

[Blink34]

I think intertwined means he used them to strangle her and has no hidden meaning.

That could be, but intertwined panties, one pair of which did not belong at the scene, is an intentional message and not is per chance. He strikes me as an organized offender- so he's arriving with an instrument for murder, imo

[Rick777]

ok.....so authorities have captured Cesar Laurean in mexico. That had to be a difficult thing to do, so you would HOPE they can get Brianna's killer in a smaller area!

[SeriouslySearching]

That could be, but intertwined panties, one pair of which did not belong at the scene, is an intentional message and not is per chance. He strikes me as an organized offender- so he's arriving with an instrument for murder, imoI don't disagree that he had the pp thong on him when he arrived as I believe it came from a prior vic and left on purpose with Bri. I think he grabbed the other pair while he was there.

[StillHoping]

ok.....so authorities have captured Cesar Laurean in mexico. That had to be a difficult thing to do, so you would HOPE they can get Brianna's killer in a smaller area!

If only LE knew WHO her killer was. They were onto Cesar before they even believed Maria was dead. :(
So sad, all these young women thrown away like garbage.

[Littledeer]

I haven't kept up on this case and I'm coming in very very late. But I am SHOCKED that an arrest has not been made yet.

If this is a "serial" rapist/killer, I would think he has committed another rape/killing by now. Have there been any cases of rape or other types of similiar crime in the area recently? Say, within a 50 mile radius??

He might have also realized that LE and the community were going to hunt him down and has left the area for another "killing" ground.

Sorry if this has been brought up already.........will try to speed read and catch up.

[softsoul]

I haven't kept up on this case and I'm coming in very very late. But I am SHOCKED that an arrest has not been made yet.

If this is a "serial" rapist/killer, I would think he has committed another rape/killing by now. Have there been any cases of rape or other types of similiar crime in the area recently? Say, within a 50 mile radius??

He might have also realized that LE and the community were going to hunt him down and has left the area for another "killing" ground.

Sorry if this has been brought up already.........will try to speed read and catch up.

I'm not in the Reno area but I would think if an attack that could possibly be linked to this perp had occurred we would have heard....and I haven't heard anything.

It is not really shocking to me that an arrest hasn't been made. These type of perps tend to target victims they have no ties to. Descriptions of him and his vehicle have changed, and although detailed they really aren't of much help to most of the public...could be thousands of men I assume. DNA provides nothing to help ID him.

If he has no secure ties to the area then I also believe he'd likely get of town. He's had a few months to make his exit now and it wouldn't seem as suspicious to others at this point.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think he is very much still in Reno and is living his life quite normally...which he has done all along. I also believe he has been on the internet continuously and has inserted himself in this case through various avenues.

His wife/SO isn't suspicious because his behavior has not changed during this whole time frame. He is still doing exactly what he always has done with the family and work. This is why he has been difficult to find, but he has made mistakes which will come back to haunt him.

[Blink34]

I think he is very much still in Reno and is living his life quite normally...which he has done all along. I also believe he has been on the internet continuously and has inserted himself in this case through various avenues.

His wife/SO isn't suspicious because his behavior has not changed during this whole time frame. He is still doing exactly what he always has done with the family and work. This is why he has been difficult to find, but he has made mistakes which will come back to haunt him.

I agree with SS that he is smart enought o go undetected in everyday life, however I believe that he may only have superficial SO, or other relation ships because someone as ill as this person has gaping cracks/ holes in his sidewalk that will be detected if someone close is paying attention.

I have searched endlessly for the case where a perp offends "out of the blue". But unfortunately I seem to always here "well no, no real signs this would happen, except there was that time when he was setting cats on fire in the backyard and bedwetting into his twenties..." Not trying to be funny, but the point is, people always leave a trail if you are looking.

[Ispy]

I think he is laying low right now. Continuing to live his normal day to day life.

Did one of the victims say that he smelled clean or was I mistaken. Does this mean that he had a shower prior to the attack? For example, getting off the afternoon shift, showering and then heading home or in his case preparing for his attack. Maybe where he works there is an odour left on him or his clothes or he sweats alot doing his job. He might be a real clean freak.

If he works the afternoon shift, he may not spend a lot of time with his SO if she works days. The other thing is he might be very controlling and although the SO may suspect him she is too afraid to come forward. She probably needs a bit egging from LE to come forward if she suspects anything.

Does anyone know has he taken mementos from the other victims?

[Ispy]

Blink, I agree. I don't think this is something that happens out of the blue. Most serial rapists/killers have a history of abnormal behaviour or trauma in their life.

[txsvicki]

I don't think it was said that the freak necessarily smelled clean like he'd just showered, but was reported that he had no smells of booze, cigarettes, or fragrances.

[Ispy]

Thanks Txsvicki for clarifying that for me. I must be thinking of some