Brianna Denison 19yo Reno NV #8

[SeriouslySearching]

New thread!

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't know how Craigslist's Reno people are getting their information...but it seems they have a lot to say. I think it is interesting that a Reno Rant page on CL could be at all accurate...but I guess you never know who is on there.

I am anxious to see if anything they have mentioned will come out as close to being correct. If so, we may need to pay more attention to those people. Hmmm...never thought I would say that. LOL

[strach304]

Could someone post the link for the live press conference please? I went to the city of Reno one and can't find anything there for it.

[philamena]

Don't know if it will show the presser live but it has frequent updates.
http://www.cityofreno.com/Index.aspx?page=1421


Breaking story, another female college student found murdered. LE saying the perp probably has her car. This is NOT the young woman who's car was found on fire.
WHAT is going on???

[strach304]

Thanks Philamena :blowkiss: I don't see anything on there for a live feed nor Fox. I'll be here waiting for those who can see it to update.

[Leila]

Thanks Philamena :blowkiss: I don't see anything on there for a live feed nor Fox. I'll be here waiting for those who can see it to update.

Fox is covering the explosion in Times Square.

[philamena]

Thanks Philamena :blowkiss: I don't see anything on there for a live feed nor Fox. I'll be here waiting for those who can see it to update.

strach,
You're welcome.:blowkiss:
I'm sitting on pins and needles here.

[CarrieOhKee]

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7975639

[SeriouslySearching]

There wasn't anything new that I heard, if that was it! GRRRR!

[philamena]

It's over.
CarrieOhKee,
THANKS for the link. That was extremely short--or maybe I missed most of it.

The spokeswoman said that at one time they had 2 pair of underwear.
Be on the lookout and report anything that seems suspicious.
Nothing new really.:banghead:

[GR987]

There wasn't anything new that I heard, if that was it! GRRRR!

Hey, maybe it started an hour ago and we missed them discussing the fact that this POS was severely beaten under their custody?:waitasec:

[Rolex]

Hey, maybe it started an hour ago and we missed them discussing the fact that this POS was severely beaten under their custody?:waitasec:


It has not started yet..

[philamena]

This is the link to the case I mentioned above about the UNC Student President who was shot to death yesterday.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,335708,00.html

[GR987]

It has not started yet..

What was that that we all sat through with very low audio?

[Rolex]

What was that that we all sat through with very low audio?

I'm at work so I guess I missed it.

[10EC_Dad]

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7976251&nav=menu113_2

Here is a link.

[10EC_Dad]

Now I better understand the DNA and panties mix up.

Interesting that the one pair of panties contained the DNA of 3 people.

[happy2bn10ec]

http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7976251&nav=menu113_2

Here is a link.

Thanks, 10ECDad. Now I understand why RPD handled the mix-up about the DNA the way they did.

[Leila]

There were two pairs of underwear found at the site where Brianna's body was found. There was the pink panther underwear that contained the DNA of an unknown woman and unknown man. The second set of underwear was intertwined with the pink panther underwear and contained the DNA of Brianna, one of the girls who lived at the house where Brianna was abducted from, and the suspect!

http://www.kolotv.com/news/headlines/16341236.html

[10EC_Dad]

Thanks, 10ECDad. Now I understand why RPD handled the mix-up about the DNA the way they did.

Yes, not their best moment, but I understand it a little better. I see no reason why he would leave the PP Thong too.

[Rick777]

Geeeeez.....the Reno LE is sooooo dramatic! Thats it? Two pair of underwear at the scene. We couldn't know that TUESDAY?????

The fact the underwear were "Intertwined" makes it seem like it was used to strangle Brianna.

So basically.....we are no further along then we have been.

[newshound81]

Geeeeez.....the Reno LE is sooooo dramatic! Thats it? Two pair of underwear at the scene. We couldn't know that TUESDAY?????

The fact the underwear were "Intertwined" makes it seem like it was used to strangle Brianna.

So basically.....we are no further along then we have been.
But how in the heck did the killer and Brianna's DNA wind up on underwear belonging to a MacKay court resident? Did K.T. lend her underwear????? I am so confused. Somebody propose what happened for me. If he took the time to take underwear from that house, than he was in there for a longer time than we think.

[10EC_Dad]

Geeeeez.....the Reno LE is sooooo dramatic! Thats it? Two pair of underwear at the scene. We couldn't know that TUESDAY?????

The fact the underwear were "Intertwined" makes it seem like it was used to strangle Brianna.

So basically.....we are no further along then we have been.

I imagine there was a lot of discussion with the DA about releasing this information.

[aj1020]

This confuses me:

Reno Police Detective Commander Leigha Struffert said laboratory analysis has confirmed the pink women's underwear contain the DNA of the murder suspect, Brianna Denison and the owner of the underwear who was a resident of the Mackay Court residence from which Denison was abducted on January 20.

So the pink undies had Brianna's DNA, and the suspect's DNA, plus the DNA of the owner who was someone who lived at the house Brianna was taken from?? I'm confused about this - would Brianna borrow undies (that seems unlikely) or did the perp take some dirty ones from the house?? The logistics of that seem unlikely in the sense that I've always thought it was a quick abduction. This case keeps getting more and more bizarre.

[10EC_Dad]

But how in the heck did the killer and Brianna's DNA wind up on underwear belonging to a MacKay court resident? Did K.T. lend her underwear????? I am so confused. Somebody propose what happened for me. If he took the time to take underwear from that house, than he was in there for a longer time than we think.

I am thinking about that also. Initially, I think she must have borrowed the underwear.

[aj1020]

I am thinking about that also. Initially, I think she must have borrowed the underwear.

This is possible, don't get me wrong, but as a general rule, girls don't borrow underwear. It's icky. I wouldn't even loan my sister underwear even if they were clean and had only been worn once.

[SeriouslySearching]

Struffert says the evidence found in the field where Denison's body was discovered last month is critical to the investigation. Police believe both pairs may have been taken from the home where Denison last was seen when she was abducted Jan. 20 on the edge of the campus of the University of Nevada, Reno.

http://www.kolotv.com/news/headlines/16341236.html

This is very curious to me. If the women were locked into the bedroom asleep...obviously, that leaves the other female and two male roomates' rooms empty...but I rather thought they were locked, too. I don't see the girls leaving their worn underwear laying around in the common area, but I guess they could have a laundry room or similar near the kitchen where a laundry basket could have been.

They must have already inquired with the roomates as to the origin of the PP thong? If someone in that home owned the PP thong, they would know. If one of the males' had a possible lover that owned/left them, they would know.

Also, incorrectly...They stated that:
RENO, Nev. (AP) - Reno police say a second pair of women's panties found with Brianna Denison's body had DNA belonging to her, a woman who lived with her and the serial rapist they believe strangled the 19-year-old college student.

It is common knowledge that Brianna did not live there. This indicates the new pair they are talking about has their DNA on it...but not the PP thong.

Being intertwined, it does sound more like he used them to strangle her.

[Rick777]

Well this guy tried to break in near Brianna's house, so it wouldn't be a reach to think he had stolen the pink underwear at some point earlier because there were alot of people coming and going.

[10EC_Dad]

Struffert says the evidence found in the field where Denison's body was discovered last month is critical to the investigation. Police believe both pairs may have been taken from the home where Denison last was seen when she was abducted Jan. 20 on the edge of the campus of the University of Nevada, Reno.

http://www.kolotv.com/news/headlines/16341236.html

This is very curious to me. If the women were locked into the bedroom asleep...obviously, that leaves the other female and two male roomates' rooms empty...but I rather thought they were locked, too. I don't see the girls leaving their worn underwear laying around in the common area, but I guess they could have a laundry room or similar near the kitchen where a laundry basket could have been.

I didn't see that before. If the PP thong came from that apartment, whose DNA is on there?

[aj1020]

Struffert says the evidence found in the field where Denison's body was discovered last month is critical to the investigation. Police believe both pairs may have been taken from the home where Denison last was seen when she was abducted Jan. 20 on the edge of the campus of the University of Nevada, Reno.

http://www.kolotv.com/news/headlines/16341236.html

This is very curious to me. If the women were locked into the bedroom asleep...obviously, that leaves the other female and two male roomates' rooms empty...but I rather thought they were locked, too. I don't see the girls leaving their worn underwear laying around in the common area, but I guess they could have a laundry room or similar near the kitchen where a laundry basket could have been.

I'm with you - this sounds too complicated/time consuming to me. But maybe the perp has an underwear fetish. I would think they would have had to come from a laundry room or some dirty clothes area rather than from KT's room and I doubt they were just hanging out on the living room floor. I thought there were 2 girls and 2 guys living on in the house and the other girl was also out of town that weekend (I could be dreaming, it's been a while ago I read that) - maybe they came from the other girls bedroom??

[aj1020]

Well this guy tried to break in near Brianna's house, so it wouldn't be a reach to think he had stolen the pink underwear at some point earlier because there were alot of people coming and going.

I would think that KT or whoever owned the underwear would have known how recently she had them. If she'd been missing them only since the night of Jan 20th, then he probably took them at the same time he took Brianna.

[10EC_Dad]

I'm with you - this sounds too complicated/time consuming to me. But maybe the perp has an underwear fetish. I would think they would have had to come from a laundry room or some dirty clothes area rather than from KT's room and I doubt they were just hanging out on the living room floor. I thought there were 2 girls and 2 guys living on in the house and the other girl was also out of town that weekend (I could be dreaming, it's been a while ago I read that) - maybe they came from the other girls bedroom??

Remember that the DNA on the thong were from an unknown male and unknown female.

[newshound81]

I am thinking about that also. Initially, I think she must have borrowed the underwear.
She could have. It's not out of the question. Maybe her time of the month came early or something and she needed a new pair. But it seems strange. And it also seems strange that any of the roommates would have underwear lying around in the "common area." I don't know if there is a laundry room where he could have grabbed them from. Or, more frighteningly, maybe this perp knows KT or one of her other roommates....maybe he was intimate with that person, and that's he has the underwear.

But why? Why did he take a pair of underwear obviously from that house and use the black thong? This is sounding more and more planned/taunting, whatever you want to call it. And it's also sounding more unbelievable that no one else in that house heard anything strange going on that early morning....

[10EC_Dad]

I would think that KT or whoever owned the underwear would have known how recently she had them. If she'd been missing them only since the night of Jan 20th, then he probably took them at the same time he took Brianna.

If they were KT's, why would she not claim them?

[Leila]

Weve got:

#1 Pink Panther underwear with the DNA of an unknown man and unknown woman.

#2 Pink underwear with the DNA of Brianna, the suspect, and one of the firls living at the MacKay Court home.

Speculation...........the suspect took a pair of underwear from a dirty clothes hamper at the MacKay home and knotted it together with the pink panther underwear and used that to strangle Brianna. DNA from both Brianna and the suspect was transferred to the underwear during the course of strangling her.

[aj1020]

If they were KT's, why would she not claim them?

I didn't say anything about KT not claiming them, I'm not sure what you mean??

Rick said the perp could have taken them on an occasion prior to the night Brianna was taken. I was just pointing out that KT or whoever owned them would have known when they went missing. If they went missing that night, then he probably took them when he took Brianna. If she'd been missing them since December let's say, then it's probably a good clue that he'd been in their house before.

[10EC_Dad]

She could have. It's not out of the question. Maybe her time of the month came early or something and she needed a new pair. But it seems strange. And it also seems strange that any of the roommates would have underwear lying around in the "common area." I don't know if there is a laundry room where he could have grabbed them from. Or, more frighteningly, maybe this perp knows KT or one of her other roommates....maybe he was intimate with that person, and that's he has the underwear.

But why? Why did he take a pair of underwear obviously from that house and use the black thong? This is sounding more and more planned/taunting, whatever you want to call it. And it's also sounding more unbelievable that no one else in that house heard anything strange going on that early morning....

When you consider it, the PP thong is still the odd piece of the puzzle.

If it came from that apartment, why did no one claim them? Why is the DNA from unknowns?

[10EC_Dad]

I didn't say anything about KT not claiming them, I'm not sure what you mean??

Rick said the perp could have taken them on an occasion prior to the night Brianna was taken. I was just pointing out that KT or whoever owned them would have known when they went missing. If they went missing that night, then he probably took them when he took Brianna. If she'd been missing them since December let's say, then it's probably a good clue that he'd been in their house before.

LE has been asking the owner of the PP thong to come forward. KT did not come forward. Noone that lives in that apartment came forward.

[aj1020]

Remember that the DNA on the thong were from an unknown male and unknown female.

That was the BLACK pink panther thong with 2 unknown DNA samples on it.

I'm talking about the PINK underwear. The one that came from the house Brianna was staying at. Those ones had the perp's DNA, Brianna's DNA, and a 3rd DNA belonging the the owner of the thong, who was a resident of the house Brianna was taken from.

[newshound81]

Weve got:

#1 Pink Panther underwear with the DNA of an unknown man and unknown woman.

#2 Pink underwear with the DNA of Brianna, the suspect, and one of the firls living at the MacKay Court home.

Speculation...........the suspect took a pair of underwear from a dirty clothes hamper at the MacKay home and knotted it together with the pink panther underwear and used that to strangle Brianna. DNA from both Brianna and the suspect was transferred to the underwear during the course of strangling her.
Sorry, I posted too slow and realized I repeated a lot of what other said.

I think that is very possible, Leila. But why would he not just strangle her with his hands? I don't get that. She was a tiny, tiny girl...it wouldn't have taken much to kill her. This creeps me the heck out.

[SeriouslySearching]

If he used the underwear in a manner that would cause Bri's death, chances are that her DNA would be present...along with his. I do not think Bri ever wore either pair of the underwear.

[aj1020]

LE has been asking the owner of the PP thong to come forward. KT did not come forward. Noone that lives in that apartment came forward.

For the third time, I'm not talking about the black/pink panther thong. I'm talking about the PINK underwear that was owned by someone who lives at the house where Brianna was taken from.

[10EC_Dad]

That was the BLACK pink panther thong with 2 unknown DNA samples on it.

I'm talking about the PINK thong. The one that came from the house Brianna was staying at. Those ones had the perp's DNA, Brianna's DNA, and a 3rd DNA belonging the the owner of the thong, who was a resident of the house Brianna was taken from.

According to the link the SS provided, LE think that BOTH pieces of underwear came from that apartment.

Has LE said the pink UW was a thong?

[aj1020]

They are pink underwear. I apologize if I said they were a thong and they're actually a bikini cut. Does it matter?

"Reno Police Detective Commander Leigha Struffert said laboratory analysis has confirmed the pink women's underwear contain the DNA of the murder suspect, Brianna Denison and the owner of the underwear who was a resident of the Mackay Court residence from which Denison was abducted on January 20."

from: http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7976251&nav=menu113_2

[10EC_Dad]

They are pink underwear. I apologize if I said they were a thong and they're actually a bikini cut. Does it matter?

"Reno Police Detective Commander Leigha Struffert said laboratory analysis has confirmed the pink women's underwear contain the DNA of the murder suspect, Brianna Denison and the owner of the underwear who was a resident of the Mackay Court residence from which Denison was abducted on January 20."

from: http://www.krnv.com/Global/story.asp?S=7976251&nav=menu113_2

I am not sure if it matters other than I wanted to be clear on the facts.

[SeriouslySearching]

I think it was ridiculous to have a two day wait for this presser! What a waste of time! They were only doing it for the PR and they really could have just issued a statement.

[10EC_Dad]

I think it was ridiculous to have a two day wait for this presser! What a waste of time.

As I said before, I imagine that the DA had a lot to say about this. Don't you think so?

[aj1020]

If he used the underwear in a manner that would cause Bri's death, chances are that her DNA would be present...along with his. I do not think Bri ever wore either pair of the underwear.

I agree. I don't know why she would have borrowed underwear period. But if they were used as a ligature in combination with the black underwear, I would think the black underwear would have her DNA just as you suggested the pink ones would. Hmmmm. I have more questions than answers.

[newshound81]

Why would a stranger's underwear (the pink panther thing) be in the house? Even if you consider it was one of the male roommate's girlfriends, HIS DNA would be on it too, probably. I'm really stumped by that.

[SeriouslySearching]

Frankly, I don't think LE has a clue where the PP thong came from and they are simply guessing. The way they know the second pair came from the home is because of the DNA and probably the owner has already claimed them.

[10EC_Dad]

Why would a stranger's underwear (the pink panther thing) be in the house? Even if you consider it was one of the male roommate's girlfriends, HIS DNA would be on it too, probably. I'm really stumped by that.

http://www.cityofreno.com/index.aspx?recordid=1334&page=1421

Here is the link to the Reno site with the official LE release.

SS, I wonder if that reporter was mistaken that indicated both pieces of underware came from that apartment. I did not see that stated on two other news sites nor this link above.

[SeriouslySearching]

Why didn't they just release that information when they brought it out about the thong to begin with? LE's mounting mistakes are beginning to make them look very badly here. The press conference just added to it instead of working as a PR stunt to rectify the first mistake! Sheesh!

[strach304]

Why would a stranger's underwear (the pink panther thing) be in the house? Even if you consider it was one of the male roommate's girlfriends, HIS DNA would be on it too, probably. I'm really stumped by that.


Since that info came from the same source that stated incorrectly about the other UW coming from a woman who lived in the house with Brianna, then I don't believe that particular detail. It says LE believe both pairs came from that house yet there's nothing from the press conference stating that.

[10EC_Dad]

Why didn't they just release that information when they brought it out about the thong to begin with? LE's mounting mistakes are beginning to make them look very badly here. The press conference just added to it instead of working as a PR stunt to rectify the first mistake! Sheesh!

Release what information?

Can you expound on what the "mounting mistakes" are?

What was confusing, caused by LE, about the press conference?

How is this a PR stunt? Do you really think LE just made this stuff up?

[10EC_Dad]

Since that info came from the same source that stated incorrectly about the other UW coming from a woman who lived in the house with Brianna, then I don't believe that particular detail. It says LE believe both pairs came from that house yet there's nothing from the press conference stating that.

I think that is a media mistake.

[SeriouslySearching]

http://www.cityofreno.com/index.aspx?recordid=1334&page=1421

Here is the link to the Reno site with the official LE release.

SS, I wonder if that reporter was mistaken that indicated both pieces of underware came from that apartment. I did not see that stated on two other news sites nor this link above.Yes, you are probably right. The reporters may be the ones confused...but then again...until they run their retractions we won't know for certain.

[Reannan]

I just don't see Brianna borrowing underwear from her friends. Women usually have lots of underwear, and if running short, she could have just gone to Wall-Mart and purchased a pair for an emergency. The fact that the pink bikini cut underwear from the apartment had DNA from Brianna, another female at the apartment, and the murder suspect is very puzzling. Especially viewed in context with the information that the PP thong had DNA from an unknown woman and an unknown man....but NOT Brianna's or the murder suspects DNA. Since the two pairs were somehow intertwined, I can't imagine DNA from Brianna and the suspect getting on one pair, and not on the other pair, if Brianna's DNA was transferred to the pink bikini pair from being strangled with them. I think it is more likely that he stole them, and placed them on Brianna after he abducted her - could have been before or after her death. I bet he has pictures of her in them somewhere. Sick POS.

[10EC_Dad]

I just don't see Brianna borrowing underwear from her friends. Women usually have lots of underwear, and if running short, she could have just gone to Wall-Mart and purchased a pair for an emergency. The fact that the pink bikini cut underwear from the apartment had DNA from Brianna, another female at the apartment, and the murder suspect is very puzzling. Especially viewed in context with the information that the PP thong had DNA from an unknown woman and an unknown man....but NOT Brianna's or the murder suspects DNA. Since the two pairs were somehow intertwined, I can't imagine DNA from Brianna and the suspect getting on one pair, and not on the other pair, if Brianna's DNA was transferred to the pink bikini pair from being strangled with them. I think it is more likely that he stole them, and placed them on Brianna after he abducted her - could have been before or after her death. I bet he has pictures of her in them somewhere. Sick POS.

Just to stay clear on the facts, has anyone seen where LE has stated that the pink underware is bikini cut?

[SeriouslySearching]

Release what information? That there were actually 2 pair of underwear left at the scene....one with Bri's, his, and the girl's from the apt. and the other pair with the unknown couple's DNA. It was not worth witholding. I am sure they have more (at least hope they do) that only the killer would know about as evidence.

Can you expound on what the "mounting mistakes" are? Aren't we following the same case here?!

What was confusing, caused by LE, about the press conference? For one, the reason they waited 2 days is confusing. The way it was presented to the media was obviously confusing if they got it wrong in print already.

How is this a PR stunt? Do you really think LE just made this stuff up? They obviously would have been further ahead to release this information in a simple statement instead of the big build up for two days. It doesn't help to know that they screwed up because they were trying to be "tricky" and released the wrong information which was actually true. If they had nothing else to add to this press conferernce, they should not have waited. It was nothing more than Hype!! I would say it backfired. It simply makes them look desperate, imo.

[SeriouslySearching]

It seems more likely the PP thong does belong to another victim now tho and he had them with him at the time of the abduction.

[DeltaDawn]

I think that he stole both pair prior to the abduction of Brianna. He was probably in that apartment prior ...it doesn't sound like they kept doors locked and if they have a laundry area that would be easy to accomplish.

So it looks like he stalks his vics before hand..which means the PP Thongs owner needs to step up in order to protect herself.

And remember that another vic said she was missing underwear..so we now have 3 different pairs of undies this guy has taken. Wonder how many more ladies in Reno are missing underwear?

[SeriouslySearching]

IF the second pair were gone before Bri went missing...they would already know that because the girl would have been interviewed and given them that information...so I don't think he stole them prior to her abduction.

Therefore, it doesn't mean he stalks his victims either.

Actually, there are 4 pair now, but two are still missing: Victim #2's and Brianna's. Remember that Bri got dressed to go out at home and then waited on KT to get ready at the apartment. She was wearing a pair of her own when she went out. Where are they?

[strach304]

Maybe the original intention was to break in for the UW. The panty fetish seems to make the most sense and he did try breaking into the house of the previous victim right before grabbing Brianna.

As for the presser I know that it was being stated that the PP UW had his dna as well as an unknown female. That we now know is not true. I did think it was odd that LE was caught up on that evidence and repeatedly asking the owner to come forward. Maybe that's the most they can supply right now.

If the owner of those PP UW turns out to be another victim that can't come forward the guy who's dna is on there may remember the UW and who wore them.

[10EC_Dad]

SeriouslySearching (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=13831) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_online.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_2035951", true);
These are my opinions.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,191


Quote:
Originally Posted by 10EC_Dad http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2035926#post2035926)
Release what information? That there were actually 2 pair of underwear left at the scene....one with Bri's, his, and the girl's from the apt. and the other pair with the unknown couple's DNA. It was not worth witholding. I am sure they have more (at least hope they do) that only the killer would know about as evidence. LE stated why they did not want to release that information. You should already know that. It is incriminating information.

Can you expound on what the "mounting mistakes" are? Aren't we following the same case here?! That is not answering my question.

What was confusing, caused by LE, about the press conference? For one, the reason they waited 2 days is confusing. The way it was presented to the media was obviously confusing if they got it wrong in print already. Again, I think the DA was not happy about releasing the information. I thought you had followed enough cases to understand this.

How is this a PR stunt? Do you really think LE just made this stuff up? They obviously would have been further ahead to release this information in a simple statement instead of the big build up for two days. It doesn't help to know that they screwed up because they were trying to be "tricky" and released the wrong information which was actually true. If they had nothing else to add to this press conferernce, they should not have waited. It was nothing more than Hype!! I would say it backfired. I don't see how they would be further. Can you expound on that? So now you say they were being "tricky"? I don't understand. Obviously, they did have something to add: the pink underware.

Remember, this was not a press conference to detectives. This was to clear some things up about the DNA issue. If they didn't have this presser, someone would complain that they are trying to cover something up and are not being forth coming.



It simply makes them look desperate, imo. I see LE working as hard as possible. I don't see desperation in LE.

[strach304]

IF the second pair were gone before Bri went missing...they would already know that because the girl would have been interviewed and given them that information...so I don't think he stole them prior to her abduction.

Therefore, it doesn't mean he stalks his victims either.

Actually, there are 4 pair now, but two are still missing: Victim #2's and Brianna's. Remember that Bri got dressed to go out at home and then waited on KT to get ready at the apartment. She was wearing a pair of her own when she went out. Where are they?

Did they say Brianna's were missing? Not found with her? Were the rest of her clothes on her or any or what?

[10EC_Dad]

It seems more likely the PP thong does belong to another victim now tho and he had them with him at the time of the abduction.

You may be right, but why would his DNA not be on the PP thong and be on the pink underware?

[Leviosa]

Please excuse me if I seem anything but myself…nice, kind, well-spoken, and sensitive person. But something about this case has not washed with me since day one. I don't know if it's how cavalier K.T. was the morning of…

Or if it's Jessica laying really low so much that we haven't heard a word from her. But guys, something is not right when there is a dog in the house; an intruder (I read recently where K.T. couldn't remember if the front door was locked or unlocked when they went to sleep) that no one hears? Ahem…..

Leviosa

S.S. newshound, 10EC Dad, the lot...Simply magnificant!

[strach304]

Another thought is that maybe Brianna wasn't wearing UW when abducted. Not uncommon especially with the description of the clothes she was last seen wearing.

[Leviosa]

Just one last thing…big party weekend, right? I don't think Brianna 'borrowed' anyone's undies, much less an already worn pair. So let's do the math: how does 1 pair of panties contain 3 separate sets of DNA? This one is not rocket science; please, if you will look at the obvious rather than some person scoping out the house and stealing women's underwear. To me the obvious is…K.T. has relations with boy-toy; Boy-toy abducts Brianna and rapes her. That alone would justify 3 sets of DNA on one pair of undies. There are other scenarios as well.

[SeriouslySearching]

Did they say Brianna's were missing? Not found with her? Were the rest of her clothes on her or any or what?Good point. No, they haven't said...but there are obviously 4 pair involved now. They could have Brianna's, true enough...but Victim #2's is still out there. (Is that better? LOL)

[Ca-Sun]

Just to stay clear on the facts, has anyone seen where LE has stated that the pink underware is bikini cut?
I've only seen the term "pink panties" used to describe the underwear that was found with the PP undies.

[10EC_Dad]

IF the second pair were gone before Bri went missing...they would already know that because the girl would have been interviewed and given them that information...so I don't think he stole them prior to her abduction.

Therefore, it doesn't mean he stalks his victims either.

Actually, there are 4 pair now, but two are still missing: Victim #2's and Brianna's. Remember that Bri got dressed to go out at home and then waited on KT to get ready at the apartment. She was wearing a pair of her own when she went out. Where are they?

Great observation. That would assume that Brianna was not wearing the pink UW but rather the perp took them in addition. It is also reasonable to believe that Brianna changed UW before going to bed.

[lew657]

I agree – I don’t borrow UW from my sister let alone a friend – especially not dirty uw.

Question though – I have read different accounts on the DNA:
- “ a resident of the Mackay Court House”
- “ female roommate of Brianna”
- “female of the Mackay Court House

If it is the first it would make the most sense – just mean Brianna had some “intimate” time with one of the male roommates before he left?

Other theories if it is one of the girls – any chance the party got a bit wild and the girls “shared” a man that night. One that came back later for Bri.

As for the 2 pairs intertwined – I know it would be rare but could this be a “team thing”. Either the unknown male or female DNA could belong to a partner in crime?

[dimples37398]

Well maybe they invited some people back to the house after the concert for an after party, maybe both pairs of UW are from the after concert get together at the mckay house???

I don't know first hand how college houses or parties are but I have heard alot of stories.....if it is true what I heard, then maybe a couple of the people that came over had some alone time together and they couldnt find their underwear to put back on, after the deed or they were just to drunk to care or remember.

Who knows maybe they were all so drunk they had a freaky deaky party going on there...it is a college house. In the beginning the girls from the house didn't seem to want to admit that they were drinking that night either. They probably wouldn't want to admit to anyone including LE that there were other people there and they were having a party, that could have included freaky deaky stuff.

All of this is just speculation and a wild guess, since there was nothing else released to talk about really........

[strach304]

Good point. No, they haven't said...but there are obviously 4 pair involved now. They could have Brianna's, true enough...but Victim #2's is still out there. (Is that better? LOL)


Well yeah, that's why I was asking because that would be a very important detail. Such as if he took her UW and how LE knew she was wearing any to begin with, etc. I just thought you knew something extremely important that I didn't. ;)

[10EC_Dad]

Please excuse me if I seem anything but myself…nice, kind, well-spoken, and sensitive person. But something about this case has not washed with me since day one. I don't know if it's how cavalier K.T. was the morning of…

Or if it's Jessica laying really low so much that we haven't heard a word from her. But guys, something is not right when there is a dog in the house; an intruder (I read recently where K.T. couldn't remember if the front door was locked or unlocked when they went to sleep) that no one hears? Ahem…..

Leviosa

S.S. newshound, 10EC Dad, the lot...Simply magnificant!

Some things have seemed odd about KT's behavior. I have considered that she did not want to own up to the level of partying.

It might be possible that someone at the apartment is involved, but consider that this case is linked to other cases. I don't see being guilty of other cases and then being involved in an attack in your apartment.

[SeriouslySearching]

Another thought is that maybe Brianna wasn't wearing UW when abducted. Not uncommon especially with the description of the clothes she was last seen wearing.Maybe we need to take a poll of college age women who sleep "commando style" wearing sweat pants on a friend's sofa. I just don't see it personally, but it could happen.

[10EC_Dad]

I've only seen the term "pink panties" used to describe the underwear that was found with the PP undies.

Thanks Ca-Sun, I am just trying to keep the facts and sift out the unintentional misinformation.

[newshound81]

Just one last thing…big party weekend, right? I don't think Brianna 'borrowed' anyone's undies, much less an already worn pair. So let's do the math: how does 1 pair of panties contain 3 separate sets of DNA? This one is not rocket science; please, if you will look at the obvious rather than some person scoping out the house and stealing women's underwear. To me the obvious is…K.T. has relations with boy-toy; Boy-toy abducts Brianna and rapes her. That alone would justify 3 sets of DNA on one pair of undies. There are other scenarios as well.
Lev, that's what I was throwing out a couple posts back. Though I can't see a rapist having consensual sex.

But if we're really to think about it: he has a one night stand with KT, who brought him back from the casino/concert. Bri passes out on the couch while KT and the perp do their thing. Perp passes out with KT for a while, and then goes out to leave. Maybe he even has slipped her a date rape drug. Sees Brianna asleep and vulnerable and decides to attack her. No one sees anything suspicious because he was already in the house. That could explain why no one is coming forward with any sightings of a vehicle or a peeper.

[jennyjwv]

maybe bri wasn't wearing any uw - i know when i wear pajama pants i usually do not wear underwear w/them - she may have discarded them on the floor when changing for bed after comnig home from the party - especially if she was drunk - who's to say the perp wasn't already in the house either if the door was unlocked???

[less0305]

Sorry, I posted too slow and realized I repeated a lot of what other said.

I think that is very possible, Leila. But why would he not just strangle her with his hands? I don't get that. She was a tiny, tiny girl...it wouldn't have taken much to kill her. This creeps me the heck out.

The underwear was more than likely stuffed in her mouth at some point, is my guess, rather than being strangled with it.

[SeriouslySearching]

You may be right, but why would his DNA not be on the PP thong and be on the pink underware?I think that would depend on where the PP thong and the underwear were in relation to each other during the commission of the assault or however their DNA came to be on the one pair. If the DNA was dry by the time the second pair was introduced by intertwining the two...it obviously didn't transfer.

[strach304]

Aren't you guys getting your underwear confused here? The pink ones who belonged to the resident had the killer and Brianna's dna on them. Now I would think if that girl had sex with someone she would tell LE who that was and in addition they'd be ruling out any males that were known to be in that house anyway. Makes more sense that he stole them from the house and then contributed his and Brianna's dna. No need for freaky, drunk or whatever sex to explain that angle.

The PP UW do not contain his or Brianna's dna. An unknown male and unknown female. The guy probably steals underwear.

We have no idea if Brianna's UW are missing anyway. Yes, young women do go commando. Britney Spears does publicly in a skirt no less. :crazy:

[strach304]

maybe bri wasn't wearing any uw - i know when i wear pajama pants i usually do not wear underwear w/them - she may have discarded them on the floor when changing for bed after comnig home from the party - especially if she was drunk - who's to say the perp wasn't already in the house either if the door was unlocked???


And what is your age group, may I ask? And are you in the habit of knowing your friends, etc, underwear wearing habits?

[Leila]

Sorry, I posted too slow and realized I repeated a lot of what other said.

I think that is very possible, Leila. But why would he not just strangle her with his hands? I don't get that. She was a tiny, tiny girl...it wouldn't have taken much to kill her. This creeps me the heck out.

I think the underwear excites the suspect. Even though he could have strangled her with his bare hands, the underwear provided him with the sexual excitement.

Remember..............we've got the two pairs of underwear at the scene of where Brianna's body was found. BUT, we've also got one of victims from a previous attack (probably the Dec. victim) missing her underwear too. Underwear plays an important role in this case.

[jennyjwv]

And what is your age group, may I ask? And are you in the habit of knowing your friends, etc, underwear wearing habits?

I am 31 - but have done that forever - it needs to breathe

[10EC_Dad]

I think that would depend on where the PP thong and the underwear were in relation to each other during the commission of the assault or however their DNA came to be on the one pair. If the DNA was dry by the time the second pair was introduced by entertwining the two...it obviously didn't transfer.

Please read your post that I was commenting on. You stated that the PP underware was from a previous victim (as many have suggested). My question relates to why his DNA is not on the PP underware if was from a previous victim. The reason I bring that up, is that his DNA is on the pink underware.

[mocity]

jennyjwv - that made me LOL!!!! Needs to breathe! HA

I do the same with PJ bottoms........... and I am 36

[lew657]

I am in my early 30s with a college age female cousin and nephew.... so I can attest that the a lot of them don't wear uw with sweats during the day and an even greater percentage don't at night.

[happy2bn10ec]

The underwear was more than likely stuffed in her mouth at some point, is my guess, rather than being strangled with it.


That makes sense to me.

[lew657]

then how did his DNA get on it? Remeber it isn't from handling them since it wasn't on the pp thong...

[Leila]

http://www.cityofreno.com/index.aspx?recordid=1334&page=1421

Here is the link to the Reno site with the official LE release.

SS, I wonder if that reporter was mistaken that indicated both pieces of underware came from that apartment. I did not see that stated on two other news sites nor this link above.

There's nothing in the official LE statement that indicates that the black pink panther underwear also came from the MacKay Court house.

I think some of the news media is making errors in their reporting which is also adding to the confusion.

We've got:

#1 a pair of black pink panther underwear found at the scene where Brianna's body was found. The underwear has the DNA of an unknown female and unknown male on them. The original source of the underwear and the owner are unknown.

#2 a pair of pink underwear found intertwined with the black pink panther underwear at the scene where Brianna's body was found. The PINK underwear has the DNA of Brianna, the suspect, and one of the girls who lived at the MacKay Court house. The source of this underwear (the MacKay Court house) and the owner are known.

#3 a pair of underwear is missing from one of the previous attack victims - probably the December victim. This pair of underwear has not been found.

[Leila]

I think that is a media mistake.

I agree. It's easy to see that the various news reporting sources in Reno are even now mixing up the information on the two pairs of underwear and where the two pairs of underwear came from.

[ladymemac]

Does anyone know the source of the DNA? DNA from wearing the underwear is a lot different from DNA that may have come from being gagged or bound with it, and LE should be able to tell the difference.

Also, have they stated definitely that the pink underwear IS the Mackay Court resident's, or just that her DNA was on it?

[SeriouslySearching]

There are a lot of scenarios to place the apartment girl's (could be one of three girls) DNA on the same pair with the victim and the perp:

1. They were in a dirty clothes laundry basket, laying on the floor, or otherwise in the room with Bri and he picked them up.

2. Bri had borrowed one of the girl's in the apartment's underwear.

3. The perp forcibly removed them from one of the girls and used them for whatever reason on Brianna.

4. Bri and the girl had contact prior and the perp's DNA was placed on them later.

5. The perp stole the underwear prior and brought them back to attack Brianna.

6. The perp and the girl had contact and then he used them on Brianna in some way.

7. The female roomate who was not at home left her door unlocked and he took them from her room...used them during the crime to get his DNA and Bri's on them.

[DeltaDawn]

IF the second pair were gone before Bri went missing...they would already know that because the girl would have been interviewed and given them that information...so I don't think he stole them prior to her abduction.

Therefore, it doesn't mean he stalks his victims either.

Actually, there are 4 pair now, but two are still missing: Victim #2's and Brianna's. Remember that Bri got dressed to go out at home and then waited on KT to get ready at the apartment. She was wearing a pair of her own when she went out. Where are they?

Great observation. That would assume that Brianna was not wearing the pink UW but rather the perp took them in addition. It is also reasonable to believe that Brianna changed UW before going to bed.


First I think everyone is missing 2 points here:

1. The pink underwear were probably taken earlier that night. I believe there was a point at which this apartment was probably empty on that evening. I think after he couldn't get into the Dec vics house he went to that area. And right after Bri went missing who is to say that her friend didn't mention her underwear being missing to the police. This was info they were trying to withhold from the public because only the perp would have known that info.

2. There was a house party going on up the street and he is looking for another vic. That's why the police want to know who was at the house party ..I believe to see if the perp was there or if anyone saw him in the area or around the apartment Bri was staying at. He waits until they are gone ..goes in gets his trophy. Goes back out..waits for everyone to return so he knows he won't be interrupted and then takes Bri off the couch as she is sleeping. I also think he already knew the habits of the occupants there so he knew they wouldn't wake up or be alarmed to hear someone in the house because he knew they had this in and out all the time there.

So yes I do feel he steals the underwear first..and it may only be hours before the attack..but this is what fuels his attacks, what gets him worked up is being able to slip in and out..get the undies..then come back and do his thing.

The reason why LE needed to clarify the other undies (PP THONG) did not have his DNA is that suppose this other vic is in a relationship and never mentioned this before...suppose he hasn't raped her yet....maybe she felt ackward telling her s/o that her undies were missing to have them turn up in police custody with another man's DNA on them. Remember at first they are saying that the thongs had the preps DNA nad another unknown women's. Now that there is no other DNA but the owners and another man, probably her s/o , she can come forward without alot of problems from her s/o.

I don't even know if Bri was wearing undies that night..remember she was in sweats and a top when she was abducted and she may have removed the undies before bed/

JMHO

[txsvicki]

This freak must get in apartments of young college age girls somehow, steal underwear and who knows what else, then come back to rape/murder and leave a pair of underwear. That may be why he was trying to get into the other girl's apartment the night before. He already had her underwear and was going to leave another pair or two after raping her again and probably murdering this time. He is really dangerous.

[dimples37398]

??????

"Police believe both pairs may have been taken from the home where Denison last was seen when she was abducted Jan. 20 on the edge of the campus of the University of Nevada, Reno."

http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=7976258&nav=9qrx (http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=7976258&nav=9qrx)

[10EC_Dad]

[quote=10EC_Dad;2036023]


First I think everyone is missing 2 points here:

1. The pink underwear were probably taken earlier that night. I believe there was a point at which this aparment was probably empty on that evening. I think after he couldn't get into the Dec vics huse he went to that area.

2. There was a house party going on up the street and he is looking for another vic. That's why the police want to know who was at the huose party ..I believe to see if the perp was there or if anyone saw him in the area or around the apart. Bri was staying at. He waits to they are gone ..goes in gets his trophy. Goes back out..waits for everyone to return and then takes Bri off the couch as she is sleeping.

So yes I do feel he steals the underwear first..and it may only be hours before the attack..but this is what fuels his attacks, what gets him worked up is being able to slip in and out..get the undies..then come back and do his thing.

The reason why LE needed to clarify the other undies did not have his DNA is that suppose this other vic is in a relationship and never mentioned this before...suppose he hasn't raped her yet....maybe she felt ackward telling her s/o that her undies were missing to have them turn up in police custody with another man's DNA on them.

I don't even know if Bri was wearing undies that night..remember she was in sweats when she was abducted and she may have removed the undies before bed/

JMHO

I see how you are trying to piece this theory together. It's just not working for me yet. I may just be slow.

It is quickly accepted that he can break into the apartment of his victims and steal their panties prior to attacking them. Yet, we don't know of any successful breaking and entry by this perp. We do, on the other hand, know of one unsuccessful breaking and entry.

We don't know if he stole the underwear of any victim prior to attacking them. This whole panty fetish theory seems to have been started after the PP thongs were found with Brianna's body.

Obviously, some people have a panty fetish and it is reasonable that a sex offender have such a fetish. Beyond that, I am not sure we have much to build a strong theory concerning this perp having a panty fetish.

[10EC_Dad]

??????

"Police believe both pairs may have been taken from the home where Denison last was seen when she was abducted Jan. 20 on the edge of the campus of the University of Nevada, Reno."

http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=7976258&nav=9qrx (http://www.kesq.com/Global/story.asp?S=7976258&nav=9qrx)

This is from the AP who also said this in an AP acrticle on the KOLO site.

This statement is not in the LE release.

[txsvicki]

Police think the pink panther underwear came from the house where Brianna was staying? I think it's important for the public to know how sadistic and how demented this guy might be. If he does have a fetish, plans it out, and takes a victim to another location then he would fit the category of a rapist/murderer who is above normal intelligence and very hard to catch.

[10EC_Dad]

This freak must get in apartments of young college age girls somehow, steal underwear and who knows what else, then come back to rape/murder and leave a pair of underwear. That may be why he was trying to get into the other girl's apartment the night before. He already had her underwear and was going to leave another pair or two after raping her again and probably murdering this time. He is really dangerous.

Do we know that he has every successfully broke into anyone's apartment? NO

Do we know if he has ever unsuccessfully tried to break into someone's apartment? YES

Do we know of any other victim where he has left someone else's underware? NO

Is he really dangerous? YES

[txsvicki]

He illegally entered the apartment where he took Brianna, and he sure tried to get into the previous victim's apartment. Do you think he was maybe just trying to get rid of evidence by leaving the underwear?Do we know that he has every successfully broke into anyone's apartment? NO

Do we know if he has ever unsuccessfully tried to break into someone's apartment? YES

Do we know of any other victim where he has left someone else's underware? NO

Is he really dangerous? YES

[DeltaDawn]

Beyond that, I am not sure we have much to build a strong theory concerning this perp having a panty fetish[/B].

Well Dad he has atleast 3 pair if not 4 of women's underwear that do not belong to him.

It seems that house was left unlocked alot..so there would be no need to break in..he probably just walked into the house. That would be right up his alley.

[10EC_Dad]

He illegally entered the apartment where he took Brianna, and he sure tried to get into the previous victim's apartment. Do you think he was maybe just trying to get rid of evidence by leaving the underwear?

Yes he entered the apartment where he took Brianna, but he did not break in and steal underware.

I assume you are talking about the underware left with Brianna's body. One pair was taken with her body so it makes since that it would be left with her body. The other pair, as I have stated before, is the odd piece to this puzzle. Was it left on purpose by the perp? Was it accidently left by the perp? Was it already there when he dropped Brianna's body?

[EnvoyDriver61]

AP speculates that something said at the Press Conference infers that police believe both sets of underwear were from the house. There was DNA left at the house (many here believe it was from oily prints or something).

There is DNA on the pink underwear (we may surmise that it is semen or other fluid). But, there is none of his DNA on the PP thong.

How does a guy leave DNA at the house on one set of UW but not on the other, yet someone infers that the pink underwear was also taken from the house? How could that pair of underwear not contain his DNA but other items do? He doesn't seem to wear gloves, otherwise no DNA at the house. But, how does the PP thong not have his DNA on it?

At some point it seems he has to be wearing gloves when handling the PP thong. Could he have dressed Brianna with the PP thong while wearing gloves and place them over the pink underwear? And then, he strips both pair of underwear off when disposing of the body (that's how I think they are entwined and near the body).

[10EC_Dad]

Well Dad he has atleast 3 pair if not 4 of women's underwear that do not belong to him.

It seems that house was left unlocked alot..so there would be no need to break in..he probably just walked into the house. That would be right up his alley.

We don't know if he has any underwear with him. Remember that women's underwear is not unusual in the type of crime he has committed.

It is possible that he steals underwear every night but I don't see any signs that indicates he does.

I understand that it is speculation. It seems, if we are not careful, speculation can quickly be assumed as fact here.

[10EC_Dad]

AP speculates that something said at the Press Conference infers that police believe both sets of underwear were from the house. There was DNA left at the house (many here believe it was from oily prints or something).

There is DNA on the pink underwear (we may surmise that it is semen or other fluid). But, there is none of his DNA on the PP thong.

How does a guy leave DNA at the house on one set of UW but not on the other, yet someone infers that the pink underwear was also taken from the house? How could that pair of underwear not contain his DNA but other items do? He doesn't seem to wear gloves, otherwise no DNA at the house. But, how does the PP thong not have his DNA on it?

At some point it seems he has to be wearing gloves when handling the PP thong. Could he have dressed Brianna with the PP thong while wearing gloves and place them over the pink underwear? And then, he strips both pair of underwear off when disposing of the body (that's how I think they are entwined and near the body).

Well, inferences are a personal thing. Who knows how the AP writer came to that conclusion. LE certainly did not print that in their release.

Intertwined can mean many things. LE did not say they were tied together. It could mean that neither pair of underwear were on Brianna's body when she was found. We do not know if her other clothing was with or on her when she was found.

One scenario I come up with, and this is purely speculation, is that Brianna's body was nude. Her clothing was found close to her body. Inside or with her clothing were the two pair of panties, intertwined. How does the PP thong not have his DNA? His DNA was already on the pink panties, probably from a sex act. It is possible that he grabs Brianna's clothing then grabs both panties with the same hand, before picking up Brianna's body and dumping everything at once. It is not a real tight scenario but possible.

[StillHoping]

Well, I am going to definitely need some time to wrap my head around this new information, but here are some of my thoughts after reading the last 5 pgs of this thread and the new info.

Someone suggested early on in the case that maybe the perp was IN the home when the girls arrived, rather than entering the home after they went to sleep. I think, especially now, this is a very possible theory. Jessica did not live at the home, but she was the first one to arrive there. Since they didn't bother locking the doors at night, I doubt they locked them when they were gone, and Jessica arriving home first and not being a resident supports that theory. Most likely Jessica was able to enter because the door was not locked. So, it stands to reason that the perp could very well have entered the home and hidden until later, or taken the UW and left and returned later. I think he was most likely already in there. Perhaps, he was in the process of taking the UW when Bri and KT arrived home and he hid out until they went to bed. Would explain why the dog didn't bark.

I was also thinking along the lines that the perp may take underwear from girls he stalks and plans to attack in the future. Perhaps he took the UW previously and had returned that night to abduct or rape the owner of the UW. Brianna was convenient. Thinking along these lines, the PP underwear would likely be from a future vic.

I highly doubt Bri borrowed a friends UW, and if she did, it would not have been a pair that was already worn. She would more likely go commando than wear someone else's used underwear.

[StillHoping]

Also, I still feel that the bear is a huge part of this case and will end up being significant.

I'm beginning to think that the bear was taken because it "excited" the perp. We know he goes for smaller young women, and the fact that they would be easier to control is obvious, but perhaps, he has a bit of pedophilia thing going on, and the smaller girls excite him. Maybe seeing Bri with the bear excited him on that level and he took the bear along to include in his sick games.

[10EC_Dad]

Well, I am going to definitely need some time to wrap my head around this new information, but here are some of my thoughts after reading the last 5 pgs of this thread and the new info.

Someone suggested early on in the case that maybe the perp was IN the home when the girls arrived, rather than entering the home after they went to sleep. I think, especially now, this is a very possible theory. Jessica did not live at the home, but she was the first one to arrive there. Since they didn't bother locking the doors at night, I doubt they locked them when they were gone, and Jessica arriving home first and not being a resident supports that theory. Most likely Jessica was able to enter because the door was not locked. So, it stands to reason that the perp could very well have entered the home and hidden until later, or taken the UW and left and returned later. I think he was most likely already in there. Perhaps, he was in the process of taking the UW when Bri and KT arrived home and he hid out until they went to bed. Would explain why the dog didn't bark.

I was also thinking along the lines that the perp may take underwear from girls he stalks and plans to attack in the future. Perhaps he took the UW previously and had returned that night to abduct or rape the owner of the UW. Brianna was convenient. Thinking along these lines, the PP underwear would likely be from a future vic.

I highly doubt Bri borrowed a friends UW, and if she did, it would not have been a pair that was already worn. She would more likely go commando than wear someone else's used underwear.

Some good thinking there. It is possible he was in the apartment prior to KT and Brianna, but where? I don't think he would have been there long or he would have taken Jessica. He would, also, probably left fingerprints on a door or door knob on the room he hid in.

I am not sure what kind of KT's DNA were on the panties. It could be from her getting them out of the drawer for Brianna.

[StillHoping]

Some good thinking there. It is possible he was in the apartment prior to KT and Brianna, but where? I don't think he would have been there long or he would have taken Jessica. He would, also, probably left fingerprints on a door or door knob on the room he hid in.

I am not sure what kind of KT's DNA were on the panties. It could be from her getting them out of the drawer for Brianna.

Do we know the DNA was KT's? Just want to verify if this is fact or not.

Also, we know that some of the rooms were unused (rooms owner not there) because the morning of Bri's abduction, they originally thought she went to sleep in one of the bedrooms. The perp could have easily hid in there. Also, he could have been there to adbuct Jessica, and KT and Bri came home before he had the chance.

I have also questioned whether the DNA evidence could be being planted by the perp. It just seems odd the way they have gotten some of the DNA (oils) and it almost seems that he is choosing where/how it's left. But that is just my speculation and is only one of many theory's.

[10EC_Dad]

Do we know the DNA was KT's? Just want to verify if this is fact or not.

Also, we know that some of the rooms were unused (rooms owner not there) because the morning of Bri's abduction, they originally thought she went to sleep in one of the bedrooms. The perp could have easily hid in there. Also, he could have been there to adbuct Jessica, and KT and Bri came home before he had the chance.

I have also questioned whether the DNA evidence could be being planted by the perp. It just seems odd the way they have gotten some of the DNA (oils) and it almost seems that he is choosing where/how it's left. But that is just my speculation and is only one of many theory's.

You are correct, I have stated this as fact when it is not know to be. I appreciate your stopping this before it goes further!

I agree that he could have hidden in an empty room if one was unlocked. You would think he would have left finger prints but maybe not.

I agree that Jessica could have been the victim he had enough time to take her. That leads me to think that if he was in the apartment prior to Brianna and KT, it was not for long.

I don't see him purposely choosing where to leave his the DNA. It seems like it has been left everywhere except for the PP thong. Did I miss something?

[txsvicki]

Yes he entered the apartment where he took Brianna, but he did not break in and steal underware.

I assume you are talking about the underware left with Brianna's body. One pair was taken with her body so it makes since that it would be left with her body. The other pair, as I have stated before, is the odd piece to this puzzle. Was it left on purpose by the perp? Was it accidently left by the perp? Was it already there when he dropped Brianna's body?


We don't know that he didn't enter the apartment previously and take underwear especially since the door was unlocked that night. It could have been hours before like SS said, or days before. Many women have so many pairs of underwear that they'd never miss one. We don't know that the underwear were taken at the same time as the abduction, not for sure.
Also, the freak could have had both pair of underwear in his pocket since he probably had his hands full with getting poor Brianna out of the apartment. I'm not sure they'd necessarily get entwined in a pocket though. To me, entwined means actually looping in and around each other .

[MCDRAW]

This is possible, don't get me wrong, but as a general rule, girls don't borrow underwear. It's icky. I wouldn't even loan my sister underwear even if they were clean and had only been worn once.


I wouldn't either but my younger sister and her friends didn't care. They shared everything. They always grossed me out.

[strach304]

Read the latest media link Adnoid posted and look at how the underwear being intertwined is described. I don't get by the way it's worded that they were intertwined together, with each other, whatever. But rather intertwined with her body, which could mean anything. What do you guys take from that report and the wording?

[10EC_Dad]

We don't know that he didn't enter the apartment previously and take underwear especially since the door was unlocked that night. It could have been hours before like SS said, or days before. Many women have so many pairs of underwear that they'd never miss one. We don't know that the underwear were taken at the same time as the abduction, not for sure.
Also, the freak could have had both pair of underwear in his pocket since he probably had his hands full with getting poor Brianna out of the apartment. I'm not sure they'd necessarily get entwined in a pocket though. To me, entwined means actually looping in and around each other .

There were no signs of forceable entry that we are aware of. I think that you are missing the point that, contrary to your opinion, he has not been known to successfully break into anyone's apartment. He has been known to be unsuccessful in attempt to break in.

Alot of things are possible. He seems to attack at night, we could assume he is a vampire, if we wanted to be so absurd.

I agree that entwined can mean several things.

[10EC_Dad]

Read the latest media link Adnoid posted and look at how the underwear being intertwined is described. I don't get by the way it's worded that they were intertwined together, with each other, whatever. But rather intertwined with her body, which could mean anything. What do you guys take from that report and the wording?

Here is an exerpt from the LE statement:

"Struffert said the pink underwear was found at the scene intertwined with a pair of distinctive black women’s underwear described as having the caricatures of the head of the “Pink Panther” and pink hearts on a black cotton field."

The way it is stated gives me the impression that they were intertwined together. I could see your interpretation if the statement was more like: the pink underware and pair of distinctive black women's underwear were intertwined with the body. Does that make sense?

[philamena]

Originally Posted by jennyjwv http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2036054#post2036054)
......- who's to say the perp wasn't already in the house either if the door was unlocked???


jennyjwv,
That is an excellent question.
Big party weekend, who knows how many people were at the house? Who knows if KT has been totally honest with police?

[Snowbird]

AP speculates that something said at the Press Conference infers that police believe both sets of underwear were from the house. There was DNA left at the house (many here believe it was from oily prints or something).

There is DNA on the pink underwear (we may surmise that it is semen or other fluid). But, there is none of his DNA on the PP thong.

How does a guy leave DNA at the house on one set of UW but not on the other, yet someone infers that the pink underwear was also taken from the house? How could that pair of underwear not contain his DNA but other items do? He doesn't seem to wear gloves, otherwise no DNA at the house. But, how does the PP thong not have his DNA on it?

At some point it seems he has to be wearing gloves when handling the PP thong. Could he have dressed Brianna with the PP thong while wearing gloves and place them over the pink underwear? And then, he strips both pair of underwear off when disposing of the body (that's how I think they are entwined and near the body).

The DNA he left at the house could be hair from his head rather than oily handprints.

[10EC_Dad]

jennyjwv,
That is an excellent question.
Big party weekend, who knows how many people were at the house? Who knows is KT has been totally honest with police?

What do you think she is being dishonest about?

[philamena]

I think the underwear excites the suspect. Even though he could have strangled her with his bare hands, the underwear provided him with the sexual excitement.


Leila,
Hey, so you're saying he specificially planned to use panties as a weapon? I'm not convinced of that yet. ;)
The perp is smart enough to not get caught but he didn't try to kill his other victims. (The victims we know about.) So I'm not sure he was smart enough to plan on taking UW to use as a weapon.

[txsvicki]

I think I'm going to go by what the official LE website has to say instead of media. The article that Adnoid linked says the panties were intertwined with Brianna's body and that's not what LE said. Also, the LE site says that the perp is described as having a light covering of hair on his arms, not blonde hair. Now I'm going to have to go see if LE is really not sure how the pink underwear were taken from the apartment like the article says. If true, then the girl may not know when they were taken or have worn them only the day before the adbuction.

[SeriouslySearching]

[quote=DeltaDawn;2036259]

I see how you are trying to piece this theory together. It's just not working for me yet. I may just be slow.

It is quickly accepted that he can break into the apartment of his victims and steal their panties prior to attacking them. Yet, we don't know of any successful breaking and entry by this perp. We do, on the other hand, know of one unsuccessful breaking and entry.

We don't know if he stole the underwear of any victim prior to attacking them. This whole panty fetish theory seems to have been started after the PP thongs were found with Brianna's body.

Obviously, some people have a panty fetish and it is reasonable that a sex offender have such a fetish. Beyond that, I am not sure we have much to build a strong theory concerning this perp having a panty fetish.I have to agree. I do not believe the panty fetish theory nor do I believe he tried to break into victim #2's house to steal her underwear (to rape her again and/or kill her...yes). I also further do not believe he went into the apartment before the abduction to steal other underwear. I still think the underwear's significance is trophy related, but he could have used the pink pair (along with the other pair) to silence or strangle her after finding them in or around where Bri was sleeping.

Obviously, he did something with these underwear which is out of the norm. They weren't just laying around at the crime scene.

[10EC_Dad]

I think I'm going to go by what the official LE website has to say instead of media. The article that Adnoid linked says the panties were intertwined with Brianna's body and that's not what LE said. Also, the LE site says that the perp is described as having a light covering of hair on his arms, not blonde hair. Now I'm going to have to go see if LE is really not sure how the pink underwear were taken from the apartment like the article says. If true, then the girl may not know when they were taken or have worn them only the day before the adbuction.

I keep going back to it myself.

[txsvicki]

There were no signs of forceable entry that we are aware of. I think that you are missing the point that, contrary to your opinion, he has not been known to successfully break into anyone's apartment. He has been known to be unsuccessful in attempt to break in.

Alot of things are possible. He seems to attack at night, we could assume he is a vampire, if we wanted to be so absurd.

I agree that entwined can mean several things.


I never said he breaks and enters necessarily. I said that he must enter somehow (which he did) and could be doing this before attacking. He entered the apartment where Brianna was staying and tried to get into the previous victim's apartment. At least they think it was him.

[10EC_Dad]

[quote=10EC_Dad;2036309]I have to agree. I do not believe the panty fetish theory nor do I believe he tried to break into victim #2's house to steal her underwear (to rape her again and/or kill her...yes). I also further do not believe he went into the apartment before the abduction to steal other underwear. I still think the underwear's significance is trophy related, but he could have used the pink pair (along with the other pair) to silence or strangle her after finding them in or around where Bri was sleeping.

Obviously, he did something with these underwear which is out of the norm. They weren't just laying around at the crime scene.

I agree with everyting but the trophy aspect. The trohy theory is very strong related to sexual perps. In this case, we really only know of 3 pairs. The first he may just have not given back to the victim. The other two, he did not keep.

[10EC_Dad]

I never said he breaks and enters necessarily. I said that he must enter somehow (which he did) and could be doing this before attacking. He entered the apartment where Brianna was staying and tried to get into the previous victim's apartment. At least they think it was him.

I guess that is is possible that all his victims left their doors open for him.

[strach304]

I think I'm going to go by what the official LE website has to say instead of media. The article that Adnoid linked says the panties were intertwined with Brianna's body and that's not what LE said. Also, the LE site says that the perp is described as having a light covering of hair on his arms, not blonde hair. Now I'm going to have to go see if LE is really not sure how the pink underwear were taken from the apartment like the article says. If true, then the girl may not know when they were taken or have worn them only the day before the adbuction.


Thank you! I knew I wasn't crazy :blowkiss: From past cases we have seen where things were misinterpreted and reported that way.

Love your new invention now can we come up with a meaning? Something like with the Nerkely Matina humor?

[Leila]

This is from the AP who also said this in an AP acrticle on the KOLO site.

This statement is not in the LE release.

I think we need to go by the information in the official LE release, and not by the media, as there's too many conflicting media reports.

[StillHoping]

You are correct, I have stated this as fact when it is not know to be. I appreciate your stopping this before it goes further!

I agree that he could have hidden in an empty room if one was unlocked. You would think he would have left finger prints but maybe not.

I agree that Jessica could have been the victim he had enough time to take her. That leads me to think that if he was in the apartment prior to Brianna and KT, it was not for long.

I don't see him purposely choosing where to leave his the DNA. It seems like it has been left everywhere except for the PP thong. Did I miss something?

The perp did leave dna at the abduction scene. It may or may not be fingerprints. I don't think it's been reported where the dna was left. I'm also not sure if it was verified that the DNA was an "oily substance". Does anyone here know or remember if that is fact?

No, you didn't miss anything. :) As I said, the DNA thing is only one of many theory's running through my head.

When the info about the pp underwear was 1st released, some people thought it was left at the scene by accident. With the new info, don't most of us agree that's not the case? That lends much creedence to the theory that the perp is "playing games".

[philamena]

jennyjwv,
That is an excellent question.
Big party weekend, who knows how many people were at the house? Who knows if KT has been totally honest with police?[/quote]

Dad's question:
[quote]What do you think she is being dishonest about?

Dad,
Do we know for a fact KT has been honest about who was at the house that night? Do we know if KT knew whether people entered and exited after she went to bed? Just asking questions Dad, I am not accusing KT of anything.

[philamena]

SNIP

Obviously, he did something with these underwear which is out of the norm. They weren't just laying around at the crime scene.

That's it. I was afraid to say it, but in one of the first statements made after Brianna's body was found, LE said the perp did something 'deranged' or abnormal.
I've wondered from that day if the perp didn't put the UW somewhere in Briana's body. Not on, in.
Like in her mouth or in another orifice.

[concernedperson]

The perp did leave dna at the abduction scene. It may or may not be fingerprints. I don't think it's been reported where the dna was left. I'm also not sure if it was verified that the DNA was an "oily substance". Does anyone here know or remember if that is fact?

No, you didn't miss anything. :) As I said, the DNA thing is only one of many theory's running through my head.

When the info about the pp underwear was 1st released, some people thought it was left at the scene by accident. With the new info, don't most of us agree that's not the case? That lends much creedence to the theory that the perp is "playing games".
This is what I think. Sort of like BTK. It is a known observation that some keep trophies. Since no DNA of the perp and only unknown DNA was found it lends a theory to that he is/was a peeping tom and collected these panties. Dropped them off at the site to confuse the issue. It may have never been an assault of any kind where he collected the panties. Just part of his perverseness if that is a word.

[Leviosa]

Lev, that's what I was throwing out a couple posts back. Though I can't see a rapist having consensual sex.

But if we're really to think about it: he has a one night stand with KT, who brought him back from the casino/concert. Bri passes out on the couch while KT and the perp do their thing. Perp passes out with KT for a while, and then goes out to leave. Maybe he even has slipped her a date rape drug. Sees Brianna asleep and vulnerable and decides to attack her. No one sees anything suspicious because he was already in the house. That could explain why no one is coming forward with any sightings of a vehicle or a peeper.

Newshound, jennywv, s.s., 10EC Dad, and fellow sleuth's, Greetings!

You betcha newshound, I think you and I are on the exact same page. I don't want to muddy the waters or get tangential here whatsoever. Yet, straight up my very first feeling when LE got involved and the media introduced us to K.T. on the one hand, I immediately thought of Mountain Brook, AL and the Holloway case; and on the other we have who, Jessica, who asks clearly a stranger for a lift home. (I think it was Jessica?)

I don't mind admitting it but I've spent perhaps half of my existence in college; either, as a student, adjunct professor, coaching staff, or somewhere in the administration. Here is one quick assessment of how college, parties in particular, has changed dramatically over the years!

Just think about this: Didn't the delectable Miss Nevada get stripped from her crown when some compromising photos turned up on the web? And the debacle with the part-time college Miss U.S.A., and her raging in New York.

Far be it from me, but is appears that the youth of today is far more promiscuous—especially within their own gender that ever before. (Example(s): 'Wild Things', 'Cruel Intentions', the Madonna—Britney kiss, etc.)

Lev ~

PS Please understand that I am in no way intending to tarnish anyone remotely involved--especially Brianna Denison. However, another attempted kidnapping today at UNR, a 20 year old 'girl-lady' was walking home alone in the wee hours of the morning.

[Leila]

Leila,
Hey, so you're saying he specificially planned to use panties as a weapon? I'm not convinced of that yet. ;)
The perp is smart enough to not get caught but he didn't try to kill his other victims. (The victims we know about.) So I'm not sure he was smart enough to plan on taking UW to use as a weapon.

I don't think he necessarily planned to use the underwear as a weapon, but..........I think the underwear sexually arouses him. He had the underwear with him, and the notion of using it to kill her became a stimulant and may have been a last minute thought when he decided to kill her.

[guestwriter]

This confuses me:



So the pink undies had Brianna's DNA, and the suspect's DNA, plus the DNA of the owner who was someone who lived at the house Brianna was taken from?? I'm confused about this - would Brianna borrow undies (that seems unlikely) or did the perp take some dirty ones from the house?? The logistics of that seem unlikely in the sense that I've always thought it was a quick abduction. This case keeps getting more and more bizarre.

My first inclination when this happened was "This is ridiculous"..as though Brianna may have recognized this fella....and I felt one of the girls knew something but didn't know she knew. What if one of the girls in the apt where Brianna was staying that night had sex with the perp in the past and he was coming back for her and stumbled onto Brianna instead....and kept her underwear or went back to the apt at some point and took it....

[philamena]

I don't think he necessarily planned to use the underwear as a weapon, but..........I think the underwear sexually arouses him. He had the underwear with him, and the notion of using it to kill her became a stimulant and may have been a last minute thought when he decided to kill her.

Gotcha! Thanks for the explanation. Makes sense.

[philamena]

My first inclination when this happened was "This is ridiculous"..as though Brianna may have recognized this fella....and I felt one of the girls knew something but didn't know she knew. What if one of the girls in the apt where Brianna was staying that night had sex with the perp in the past and he was coming back for her and stumbled onto Brianna instead....and kept her underwear or went back to the apt at some point and took it....
:eek: That could have happened. Something was going on previously if 3 people's DNA is on the UW.

[txsvicki]

I thinks it's much more likely that the freak found the pink underwear in the home at some point, maybe from a laundry hamper and then got his dna on them during the attack. After the unsuccessful rape attempts, the freak seems to have started abducting women at their home or at least where he had his vehicle ready to abduct. If he wasn't watching the two women beforehand, how did he know that a man wouldn't be in or near the homes to stop him and how did he feel confident enough to locate and get the pink underwear. He can't be just wandering around parking beside homes and hoping that a petite long straight haired girl will appear.

[dimples37398]

I have just always had the feeling from the beginning that one or more of the people in the house that night, knew more than they were saying.

Maybe they don't want to believe it, or they only met the person once or twice in casual meetings from the male roomates.....I just feel someone in the house might have a clue or suspicion on the person who might have done it.

I followed the facebook group for Bri, and I don't recall seeing any messages from Kt or jessica. We haven't heard anything else from them either. Does anyone know if they attended the memorial for Bri after she was found?

[FXSTS]

http://www.cityofreno.com/index.aspx?recordid=1342&page=1421
I thought that this was interesting after the Craigs' List "insider" information.

If nothing else, the press conference did let me know that LE is still working
diligently and knows that Reno isn't going to let this thing die either.

On the bright side, if I ever overhear women talking about underwear, I'll be able to to "chime" right in and perhaps even give some advice on the subject.

[StillHoping]

I have just always had the feeling from the beginning that one or more of the people in the house that night, knew more than they were saying.

Maybe they don't want to believe it, or they only met the person once or twice in casual meetings from the male roomates.....I just feel someone in the house might have a clue or suspicion on the person who might have done it.

I followed the facebook group for Bri, and I don't recall seeing any messages from Kt or jessica. We haven't heard anything else from them either. Does anyone know if they attended the memorial for Bri after she was found?

I respectfully disagree. The other knows victims seem to be at random with the possibility of stalking. I have a hard time believing that the perp would kill the one victim that he would have ties to no matter how small the connection.

I have about 70 friends on myspace which is all people I know. But I have many friends ans family who don't have a pc or don't use myspace. Do you know if kt or jessica is on bri's facebook at all?

I also thought jessica may be a friend of kt's and may not have even known bri that well.

I also think that if kt or jessica knew something they would have told the police. They are college girls and it would not be out of the ordinary for them to bring a guy home so I'm not sure why they would lie about it. But they did downplay their drinking that night so you could be right.

[Taximom]

Is it possible the girls were so drunk that he picked up the underwear and possibly assaulted the other girl before doing anything to Brianna? (Something as simple as touching her.) Or he picked up the uw from the room, used it to clean himself and just took it when he took Brianna?

Just because DNA is on the uw doesn't mean it was worn by either of the girls.

[10EC_Dad]

philamena (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=10980) http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_2036713", true);
Registered User
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[quote=SeriouslySearching;2036538] Quote:
Originally Posted by 10EC_Dad http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2036309#post2036309)
SNIP

Obviously, he did something with these underwear which is out of the norm. They weren't just laying around at the crime scene.

That's it. I was afraid to say it, but in one of the first statements made after Brianna's body was found, LE said the perp did something 'deranged' or abnormal.
I've wondered from that day if the perp didn't put the UM somewhere in Briana's body. Not on, in.
Like in her mouth or in another orifice.
__________________
http://www.webweaver.nu/clipart/img/...ie-glitter.gif (http://www.webweaver.nu/clipart/img/fantasy/fairies/butterfly-faerie-glitter.gif)

I am not sure where you quoted this from but it IS NOT my quote. Please correct.

[10EC_Dad]

My first inclination when this happened was "This is ridiculous"..as though Brianna may have recognized this fella....and I felt one of the girls knew something but didn't know she knew. What if one of the girls in the apt where Brianna was staying that night had sex with the perp in the past and he was coming back for her and stumbled onto Brianna instead....and kept her underwear or went back to the apt at some point and took it....

If this case was isolated, perhaps. I have a hard time following that theory when placed in context with the other attacks.

[less0305]

[quote=SeriouslySearching;2036538]

That's it. I was afraid to say it, but in one of the first statements made after Brianna's body was found, LE said the perp did something 'deranged' or abnormal.
I've wondered from that day if the perp didn't put the UM somewhere in Briana's body. Not on, in.
Like in her mouth or in another orifice.

I said yesterday afternoon that I thought he put the underwear in her mouth - I think he stuffed the underwear down her throat.

[10EC_Dad]

[quote=philamena;2036713]

I said yesterday afternoon that I thought he put the underwear in her mouth - I think he stuffed the underwear down her throat.

Why do you think that?

[less0305]

Well, if it was said he did something deranged or different, I think he possibly shoved the underwear down her throat. I'm only speculating, but that's the thought that crossed my mind as to having her DNA and the other girl's DNA on the same pair along with his. I think he took a pair of dirty undies with him - did his little thing and put them in her mouth and down her throat, thereby getting Brianna's DNA on them as well.

[newshound81]

I believe he could have found the panties randomly that night at MacKay Court, but the problem I'm having is him taking all this time and possibly making commotion to do this.

I do not believe that the panties would have been left out in the open in the common area. Girls in general can be slobs, but most draw the line at leaving their undergarments lying around where other people - especially men - can see them.

How did this guy find the laundry room, even know one was there? Why would he risk spending extra time in this house? And if he did, how did the other girls not hear him? If this guy was walking around trying to find underwear, wouldn't you hear it, a creak in the floor or something, versus him taking two steps to come in the door to the couch and back out with Brianna in his arms?

I feel like this second pair of underwear is more baffling than the first.

[10EC_Dad]

I believe he could have found the panties randomly that night at MacKay Court, but the problem I'm having is him taking all this time and possibly making commotion to do this.

I do not believe that the panties would have been left out in the open in the common area. Girls in general can be slobs, but most draw the line at leaving their undergarments lying around where other people - especially men - can see them.

How did this guy find the laundry room, even know one was there? Why would he risk spending extra time in this house? And if he did, how did the other girls not hear him? If this guy was walking around trying to find underwear, wouldn't you hear it, a creak in the floor or something, versus him taking two steps to come in the door to the couch and back out with Brianna in his arms?

I feel like this second pair of underwear is more baffling than the first.

I still think the PP thong is the odd piece of the puzzle.

[newshound81]

The RGJ is really starting to make me mad....
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080306/NEWS01/80306031/0/NEWS18&theme=DENISON
Police said two women and two men lived at the MacKay Court home. Authorities would not disclose which woman, K.T. Hunter or Jessica Deal, owned the underwear. But investigators said the woman identified the underwear and said it was hers.

I thought Jessica was not a resident of the house? Seriously, why aren't these facts straight after nearly two months?

Also, in the same article:

Investigators do not know how the suspect obtained the student’s underwear and said they had no evidence that any of the roommates’ rooms had been burglarized.

And about the panties and Bri's body:

Struffert said Thursday the pink and black panties were found intertwined with Denison’s body.

So, to answer someone else's previous questions, the panties are not necessarily intertwined together, but possible mixed in with Bri's body in some way...

[10EC_Dad]

The RGJ is really starting to make me mad....
http://news.rgj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080306/NEWS01/80306031/0/NEWS18&theme=DENISON
Police said two women and two men lived at the MacKay Court home. Authorities would not disclose which woman, K.T. Hunter or Jessica Deal, owned the underwear. But investigators said the woman identified the underwear and said it was hers.

I thought Jessica was not a resident of the house? Seriously, why aren't these facts straight after nearly two months?

Also, in the same article:

Investigators do not know how the suspect obtained the student’s underwear and said they had no evidence that any of the roommates’ rooms had been burglarized.

And about the panties and Bri's body:

Struffert said Thursday the pink and black panties were found intertwined with Denison’s body.

So, to answer someone else's previous questions, the panties are not necessarily intertwined together, but possible mixed in with Bri's body in some way...

I caution you to refer back to the official LE statement. The media has a tendency to get a little sloppy with the wording.

[less0305]

How did this guy find the laundry room, even know one was there? Why would he risk spending extra time in this house? And if he did, how did the other girls not hear him? If this guy was walking around trying to find underwear, wouldn't you hear it, a creak in the floor or something, versus him taking two steps to come in the door to the couch and back out with Brianna in his arms?

I feel like this second pair of underwear is more baffling than the first.

A bomb could go off next to my college age daughter and she'd never hear it. She doesn't hear the alarm clock, the phone.....nothing. I'm sorry, but after a night of partying and such, I don't hear creaks or anything either. If I go to bed late and have had a drink or two - someone could walk around my house, pick up underwear, kick the cat, steal my husband's body from the bed beside me and I wouldn't necessarily wake up. What about all the weirdos who get caught and have 1,000's of pairs of stolen women's underwear. If this house was notorious for having left the doors unlocked - he could have been around the house as a peeping tom before and gotten in and gotten panties. I don't think stealing a pair of panties would be all that hard. But that's only my opinion. If no one woke up to him taking a live woman from the house, I don't think sticking a pair of undies in his pocket would wake up anybody.

[SeriouslySearching]

The perp did leave dna at the abduction scene. It may or may not be fingerprints. I don't think it's been reported where the dna was left. I'm also not sure if it was verified that the DNA was an "oily substance". Does anyone here know or remember if that is fact?

No, you didn't miss anything. :) As I said, the DNA thing is only one of many theory's running through my head.

When the info about the pp underwear was 1st released, some people thought it was left at the scene by accident. With the new info, don't most of us agree that's not the case? That lends much creedence to the theory that the perp is "playing games".The mention that the DNA could be an oily substance such as from the fingers was brought up by a member of RPD during an interview either on Greta or NG (I heard it, but haven't read it yet..it should be in those archives tho.) It was in the beginning of the invest and they were asking him about the DNA they claimed to have. His responsed that he couldn't tell them specifically, BUT...then went into what it could be with some enticing by one of the anchors.

[SeriouslySearching]

I caution you to refer back to the official LE statement. The media has a tendency to get a little sloppy with the wording.
I tend to agree with you on this one. No mention by LE that they were intertwined WITH the body. However, if one cared to speculate...you would have to consider such since the DNA was not transfered from one pair to the other. It would make logical sense in this case. He could have bound her with one pair and strangled her with another leaving them on her which would be considered entwined with her body in some manner.

Struffert said the pink underwear was found at the scene intertwined with a pair of distinctive black women’s underwear ~snip~
http://www.cityofreno.com/index.aspx?recordid=1334&page=1421

[10EC_Dad]

I tend to agree with you on this one. No mention by LE that they were intertwined WITH the body. However, if one cared to speculate...you would have to consider such since the DNA was not transfered from one pair to the other. It would make logical sense in this case. He could have bound her with one pair and strangled her with another leaving them on her which would be considered entwined with her body in some manner.

Struffert said the pink underwear was found at the scene intertwined with a pair of distinctive black women’s underwear ~snip~
http://www.cityofreno.com/index.aspx?recordid=1334&page=1421

I agree that he could have bound her but I have to look at his behavior. From what we know, he has not tied up his other victims has he? His previous behavior makes me doubt that he planned, before the attack, to kill Brianna.

I don't disagree with you but I don't see evidence of it either, even considering that his behavior has escalted by the home invasion.

[SeriouslySearching]

Dad~ Since we don't know the condition or the pose of the body, it is impossible to imagine