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View Full Version : Minnesota bars thwart smoking ban by declaring everyone an actor


JBean
03-07-2008, 06:54 PM
MAPLEWOOD, Minn. – All the world's a stage at some of Minnesota's bars.
A new state ban on smoking in restaurants and other nightspots contains an exception for performers in theatrical productions. So some bars are getting around the ban by printing up playbills, encouraging customers to come in costume, and pronouncing them “actors.”
The customers are playing right along, merrily puffing away – and sometimes speaking in funny accents and doing a little improvisation, too.
The state Health Department is threatening to bring the curtain down on these sham productions. But for now, it's on with the show.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20080306-1221-smokingban-loophole.html

Floh
03-07-2008, 06:55 PM
MAPLEWOOD, Minn. – All the world's a stage at some of Minnesota's bars.
A new state ban on smoking in restaurants and other nightspots contains an exception for performers in theatrical productions. So some bars are getting around the ban by printing up playbills, encouraging customers to come in costume, and pronouncing them “actors.”
The customers are playing right along, merrily puffing away – and sometimes speaking in funny accents and doing a little improvisation, too.
The state Health Department is threatening to bring the curtain down on these sham productions. But for now, it's on with the show.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20080306-1221-smokingban-loophole.html

Humanity can be so creative! :clap: :clap: :clap: :crazy:

JBean
03-07-2008, 07:00 PM
Humanity can be so creative! :clap: :clap: :clap: :crazy:
I'm sorry it probably didn't deserve a thread but I got a real kick out of it.

Floh
03-07-2008, 07:11 PM
I'm sorry it probably didn't deserve a thread but I got a real kick out of it.

It's making me smile. :)

particularly as smokers Hamburg are still trying to cope with the ban on smoking in bars and restaurants since the beginning of this year.

loads trying to make some businesses private clubs to allow for smoking, but no dice so far. :)

capps
03-07-2008, 07:18 PM
Just call me Jennifer Aniston LOL!

southcitymom
03-07-2008, 07:21 PM
That's awesome!!!

Taximom
03-07-2008, 07:47 PM
Very creative!

philamena
03-07-2008, 09:37 PM
...encouraging customers to come in costume, and pronouncing them “actors.”

Gotta love it.

JBean
03-07-2008, 09:45 PM
I want to start smoking just to go there.

reportertype
03-07-2008, 10:30 PM
LOL. That's great!

philamena
03-07-2008, 10:32 PM
I want to start smoking just to go there.
Now that's a great one liner. :clap:

mostlylurking
03-07-2008, 10:34 PM
Oh, man. I quit drinking and smoking. Maybe I should start up again. Sounds like a hoot.

SeriouslySearching
03-07-2008, 10:39 PM
Oh, man. I quit drinking and smoking. Maybe I should start up again. Sounds like a hoot.Your post reminds me of the line in Airplane, "I picked the wrong week to quit smoking." ROFLMAO

Bravo for some diehard smokers who now have found their artistic side! It is nice they are getting in touch with it. :) Who says smoking doesn't have any benefits?! LMAO

lynie
03-07-2008, 11:23 PM
I love it....kudos for creativity!

Lynie

JBean
03-07-2008, 11:29 PM
I love it....kudos for creativity!

Lynie
Hi Lynie :blowkiss:

panglossian
03-08-2008, 10:14 AM
Good for them! I don't smoke but dislike the taking away of any rights. Who knows, I may have a reason to smoke in the future. My brother who never smoked began at 40 because at his work the smokers got breaks to go outside to smoke and the non-smokers didn't get the break, so now he has those breaks. I also think his boss smokes so he didn't want to do differently.

Paladin
03-08-2008, 02:47 PM
They banned smoking in bars in Buffalo, NY and I have to say I love it as a non-smoker. It's nice coming home from the bars not smelling like a frat party.

I don't think it's too much to ask that smokers go outside if they need to light up. Most bars around here have smoking enclosures that are outside and separated away from the bar area.

goddess
03-08-2008, 06:20 PM
I LOVE it! Brilliant idea for a lounge or nightclub as well.

PaulaKay
03-08-2008, 06:54 PM
This has been in the news here...the man that started this is a lawyer and found a loophole. He is a non-smoker, but thought he'd try to fight the ban. They've had 2 different news stories on 2 different bars, but I think it may be happening everyweekend in a different city...

TKS2003
03-08-2008, 06:58 PM
I confess I am a smoker, and I completely understand a non smoker not wanting to inhale my smoke in public areas. That being said, I do think these "absolutely no smoking" laws are a little over the top. If a person wants to operate a tavern and allow smoking, they should be able to do that, and if a non smoker doesnt want to frequent that tavern, fine dont go inside.
Our rights are being taken away from us slowly, but surely.....Just wait till your state decides that NO TRANS FATS are the way to go.
Please please please do not attack me for my opinion, I know most you fine posters wouldnt do that. And again, this is JMHO.

SieSie
03-08-2008, 08:08 PM
I think this is a fabulously creative way to get around a bad law, I love that the owner found a loophole and I hope he's able to keep it up. It sounds like it might draw business in - it really sounds like fun to just be able to dress up however you want and "play a role for the night at a bar"!! :D


snipped...
I confess I am a smoker, and I completely understand a non smoker not wanting to inhale my smoke in public areas. That being said, I do think these "absolutely no smoking" laws are a little over the top.
Ditto, TKS! :D

JBean
03-08-2008, 08:20 PM
The no smoking laws have been here in CA for so long that I cannot recall what it is like to smell smoke in any kind of building. Sometimes when I am out of state where people can smoke indoors it always catches me off guard it smells so out of place.
They are banning it in many outdoor places around here now.

Filly
03-08-2008, 08:27 PM
It's making me smile. :)

particularly as smokers Hamburg are still trying to cope with the ban on smoking in bars and restaurants since the beginning of this year.

loads trying to make some businesses private clubs to allow for smoking, but no dice so far. :)

Really, Floh? I thought you could smoke in all Pubs in Germany. I loved Paris for that reason only because everyone was smoking everywhere. We were smoking IN the airport. That was several years ago though. Yeah, if NYC bars are smoke free I knew it was coming here.How do I get to Minnesota? I'll play the role of one of "Bea Arthur's" charachters because my voice sounds like hers from smoking. I'm ready for my close up.

Linda7NJ
03-08-2008, 08:37 PM
cough cough....don't try to up stage me!

Paladin
03-08-2008, 08:44 PM
I confess I am a smoker, and I completely understand a non smoker not wanting to inhale my smoke in public areas. That being said, I do think these "absolutely no smoking" laws are a little over the top. If a person wants to operate a tavern and allow smoking, they should be able to do that, and if a non smoker doesnt want to frequent that tavern, fine dont go inside.
Our rights are being taken away from us slowly, but surely.....Just wait till your state decides that NO TRANS FATS are the way to go.
Please please please do not attack me for my opinion, I know most you fine posters wouldnt do that. And again, this is JMHO.

I agree. Smoking bars should be allowed. People should be able to choose their environments.

zadari
03-08-2008, 08:52 PM
I confess I am a smoker, and I completely understand a non smoker not wanting to inhale my smoke in public areas. That being said, I do think these "absolutely no smoking" laws are a little over the top. If a person wants to operate a tavern and allow smoking, they should be able to do that, and if a non smoker doesnt want to frequent that tavern, fine dont go inside.
Our rights are being taken away from us slowly, but surely.....Just wait till your state decides that NO TRANS FATS are the way to go.
Please please please do not attack me for my opinion, I know most you fine posters wouldnt do that. And again, this is JMHO.

i agree ..

JBean
03-08-2008, 08:52 PM
I confess I am a smoker, and I completely understand a non smoker not wanting to inhale my smoke in public areas. That being said, I do think these "absolutely no smoking" laws are a little over the top. If a person wants to operate a tavern and allow smoking, they should be able to do that, and if a non smoker doesnt want to frequent that tavern, fine dont go inside.
Our rights are being taken away from us slowly, but surely.....Just wait till your state decides that NO TRANS FATS are the way to go.
Please please please do not attack me for my opinion, I know most you fine posters wouldnt do that. And again, this is JMHO.
We had a bar around here that allowed it for a long time. it was kind of a Cheers bar where no one would turn the bar in for violations. they got fined a couple times but generally people knew if they wanted to smoke at a bar they could get away with it there.
It was a big deal here when all public buildings prohibited smoking and a lot of protest. But now it has been this way for so long no one ever complains anymore it seems. Just a way of life and many people quit because it is such a hassle to smoke around here.
I don't smoke but I have plenty of smoking friends. I don't care one way or another personally. Smoking doesn't bother me.But it is intrusive when trying to enjoy a nice meal sometimes.

Linda7NJ
03-08-2008, 08:55 PM
I agree. Smoking bars should be allowed. People should be able to choose their environments.

agreed..it's a little hypocritical too IMO....cirrhosis of the liver is okay, drunk driving is okay........... but lung cancer isn't?

JBean
03-08-2008, 08:55 PM
Remember when you could smoke on airplanes? I fogot about that. I remember there was a smoking section and a non smoking section on the plane and little ashtrays in the armrests. I remember right after take off when you could light up there was the sound of 100 zippo lighters clicking all at once.
What do they say? that's as effective as having a peeing section and a non-peeing section in the pool.

Linda7NJ
03-08-2008, 08:57 PM
Remember when you could smoke on airplanes? I fogot about that. I remember there was a smoking section and a non smoking section on the plane and little ashtrays in the armrests. I remember right after take off when you could light up there was the sound of 100 zippo lighters clicking all at once.
What do they say? that's as effective as having a peeing section and a non-peeing section in the pool.


ahhhh the good old days....I remember when you could smoke in malls, hospitals and doctors offices!

JBean
03-08-2008, 08:57 PM
agreed..it's a little hypocritical too IMO....cirrhosis of the liver is okay, drunk driving is okay........... but lung cancer isn't?
yeah but in all fairness my drinking doesn't give you cirrhosis and drunk driving is not ok and there are laws against it.

Linda7NJ
03-08-2008, 08:58 PM
yeah but in all fairness my drinking doesn't give you cirrhosis and drunk driving is not ok and there are laws against it.


Either learn to suck it up or stay home! I shouldn't be responsible for someone else's health...that's up to them...there's the door--------->

JBean
03-08-2008, 08:59 PM
ahhhh the good old days....I remember when you could smoke in malls, hospitals and doctors offices!
They had smoking maternity rooms in the hospital when I had my first son!
The nurses always smoked in the pediatricians office during lunch hour.
.

JBean
03-08-2008, 09:00 PM
Either learn to suck it up or stay home! I shouldn't be responsible for someone else's health...that's up to them...there's the door--------->
huh??

Linda7NJ
03-08-2008, 09:06 PM
huh??


Not you personally! Just saying...if people don't want to be exposed to second hand smoke, stay away from smokers. If that means staying out of bars, so be it. Let's have a little personal responsibility here.:crazy:

JBean
03-08-2008, 09:11 PM
Not you personally! Just saying...if people don't want to be exposed to second hand smoke, stay away from smokers. If that means staying out of bars, so be it. Let's have a little personal responsibility here.:crazy:
Oh. I am the easiest going non smoker you'll ever meet. I couldn't care less. But I think you just said it. It's hard to stay away from smokers and your argument oversimplifies it.
Part of it for me is that here in CA we don't have to deal with bad weather. So when the smokers are banished to the ocean view outdoor patio is isn't so bad :) and they don't mind really. PLus it's just the way it is most people just accept it.
I can see it is a hardship all the way around for those that live in harsher climates. i really don;t know what the answer is, but I don;t think that not smoking inside is that radical. But again it has been that way here for so many years it is just a part of life.

MissAmanduh13
03-10-2008, 08:42 AM
I myself am a smoker, so I may be a little biased in this statement I am going to say. I think it is understandable not wanting to smell cigarette smoke while you are eating. It is nasty. But in a bar.... it is a little silly. I went to a bar since the smoking ban here in IL and you know what everyone does? There was a group of about 30-40 people standing out in the parking lot with their drinks, talking, and smoking. Isn't that more of a liability having a bunch of drunk people just standing out there in a parking lot? And what’s next, they are going to tell people they have to be 30 feet from a building? No smoking in your car? It is kind of silly. This is kind of a side note about this, have any of you been in some of the building that used to be smoking… like a bowling alley? I think they smell even worse now, because the smoke smell is just lingering in everything and there is no new cigarette smoke to make it smell fresh again… lol…. we’ll you know what I mean.

Pepper
03-10-2008, 09:43 AM
I confess I am a smoker, and I completely understand a non smoker not wanting to inhale my smoke in public areas. That being said, I do think these "absolutely no smoking" laws are a little over the top. If a person wants to operate a tavern and allow smoking, they should be able to do that, and if a non smoker doesnt want to frequent that tavern, fine dont go inside.
Our rights are being taken away from us slowly, but surely.....Just wait till your state decides that NO TRANS FATS are the way to go.
Please please please do not attack me for my opinion, I know most you fine posters wouldnt do that. And again, this is JMHO. I agree. Just post a sign saying smoking is permitted inside, and let the patrons decide if they want to go inside.

Paladin
03-10-2008, 10:15 AM
No smoking in your car?

I'm glad you brought this one up. A friend of my works at Lockheed Martin and he told me not only did they ban smoking on their premises (inside or out), but the ban extends to people smoking in their cars while on the property.

tempusfugit
03-10-2008, 10:27 AM
I myself am a smoker, so I may be a little biased in this statement I am going to say. I think it is understandable not wanting to smell cigarette smoke while you are eating. It is nasty. But in a bar.... it is a little silly. I went to a bar since the smoking ban here in IL and you know what everyone does? There was a group of about 30-40 people standing out in the parking lot with their drinks, talking, and smoking. Isn't that more of a liability having a bunch of drunk people just standing out there in a parking lot? And what’s next, they are going to tell people they have to be 30 feet from a building? No smoking in your car? It is kind of silly. This is kind of a side note about this, have any of you been in some of the building that used to be smoking… like a bowling alley? I think they smell even worse now, because the smoke smell is just lingering in everything and there is no new cigarette smoke to make it smell fresh again… lol…. we’ll you know what I mean.

In Arizona you can not smoke within 50 feet from some buildings, as long as there is a sign posted, trust me there are a lot signs popping up.

eve
03-10-2008, 10:53 AM
I'm glad you brought this one up. A friend of my works at Lockheed Martin and he told me not only did they ban smoking on their premises (inside or out), but the ban extends to people smoking in their cars while on the property.

Now that is ridiculous. So is the law that you cannot even smoke in your own back yard (some places in in CA I believe). I am in MN and people are getting quite a kick out of these theatre-bars! Hubby and I have now quit. It is too much of a hassle to smoke anymore and obviously bad for our health. But I very much resent the laws for bars and restaurants. Also the building distance requirements in downtown Mpls. would often theoretically place smokers out in the middle of a busy street to smoke - in sub-zero weather much of the year - LOL. When we were in Colorado Springs last summer and smoking while sitting al fresco, some 20-somethings about 4 tables away loudly and whinily complained about our smoke. The waiter said we were perfectly fine but we chose to leave the establishment and dine elsewhere.

I have always said, and still do, if non-smoking establishments are so desired by consumers, they will flourish! If an owner wants to have a smoking establishment for those who want one, go for it! Free enterprise! Big brother -stay the hell out of it! People can choose where they want to go! Public buildings should be smoke-free, as should doctor's offices, etc. But restaurants and bars? Why not have a choice for everyone? Smoking is a legal activity for adults. A person does not have to go into a smoking establishment. I agree that this will lead to other kinds of bannings. It's all about whose ox is gored. When it is your pet thing - some food or activity - (speaking to no one in particular), you won't be so happy about it. IMO.

Eve

Amraann
03-10-2008, 11:03 AM
I agree. Smoking bars should be allowed. People should be able to choose their environments.

That is how I feel about it..
People should be able to choose. If there is such a need for a non-smoking bar then I am pretty sure that someone would happily create some for the revenue.
I remember being in like second grade and my pregnant teacher happily smoked at her desk.
I am not saying that is ok but this entire no smoking anywhere thing is a bit to far IMO

eve
03-10-2008, 11:15 AM
That is how I feel about it..
People should be able to choose. If there is such a need for a non-smoking bar then I am pretty sure that someone would happily create some for the revenue.
I remember being in like second grade and my pregnant teacher happily smoked at her desk.
I am not saying that is ok but this entire no smoking anywhere thing is a bit to far IMO

Yup, you really have to wonder what the proponants of the bans fear in allowing the market to decide. If so many people want non-smoking eating and drinking establishments, what is the problem? They will thrive! It shouldn't prevent those owners who want to have a smoking place. At the very least there should be a private club exemption which would be attainable for an establishment.

Eve

Trino
03-10-2008, 11:31 AM
According to State Representative Shelly Madore, the MN Dept of Health is writing legislation to deal with exempting "actors" from smoking in bars. It will be a non-factor.

The idea of banning smoking has little to do with freedom to smoking. It's about second-hand smoke exposure - non necessarily people who frequent the bars. It's about the employees who work in them and who are exposed day after day to second-hand smoke.

capps
03-10-2008, 11:35 AM
The government wants us to BUY cigarettes,they just don't want us to smoke them...they would lose a lot of money.I believe that's why they haven't banned cigarettes completely....$$$$.

eve
03-10-2008, 11:39 AM
According to State Representative Shelly Madore, the MN Dept of Health is writing legislation to deal with exempting "actors" from smoking in bars. It will be a non-factor.

The idea of banning smoking has little to do with freedom to smoking. It's about second-hand smoke exposure - non necessarily people who frequent the bars. It's about the employees who work in them and who are exposed day after day to second-hand smoke.

NO one forces someone to work in a smoking establishment.

Eve

Eire
03-10-2008, 12:04 PM
The government wants us to BUY cigarettes,they just don't want us to smoke them...they would lose a lot of money.I believe that's why they haven't banned cigarettes completely....$$$$.

That's the part I don't get. They love the money they get from our taxes when we buy cigarettes, but they don't want us to actually smoke them. I understand non-smokers wanting a smoke free option and I agree with that. But, smokers should have an option too. In Pittsburgh, you aren't allowed to smoke within so many feet of a doorway. On the South Side, that means the only place you can smoke is the middle of Carson Street. No thank you, I'd prefer not to be a hood ornament.

Every time one of these bans comes up, I'm reminded of Eddie Izzard's bit. "No smoking in bars and pretty soon no drinking and no talking."

eve
03-10-2008, 02:21 PM
That's the part I don't get. They love the money they get from our taxes when we buy cigarettes, but they don't want us to actually smoke them. I understand non-smokers wanting a smoke free option and I agree with that. But, smokers should have an option too. In Pittsburgh, you aren't allowed to smoke within so many feet of a doorway. On the South Side, that means the only place you can smoke is the middle of Carson Street. No thank you, I'd prefer not to be a hood ornament.

Every time one of these bans comes up, I'm reminded of Eddie Izzard's bit. "No smoking in bars and pretty soon no drinking and no talking."

Sure Eire, they do want us to smoke them!

They just don't want to admit that they want us to smoke them. It is a no-no. Politically incorrect. Smoking is terrible, smokers are lower than low, unwelcome anywhere.

But the taxes? Rake 'em in! They wouldn't have it any other way, believe me.

Eve

Trino
03-11-2008, 10:11 AM
NO one forces someone to work in a smoking establishment. Eve

If you just happen to be a waitress/waiter/bartender and smoking is permitted by law, what establishments (especially serving alcohol where the good tips are) would ban smoking? Sorry, but I believe bar owners are more interested in making money than the health of their employees.

And, higher paying jobs aren't exactly easy to find these days (unless you happen to work for the Emperor's Club).

eve
03-11-2008, 11:26 AM
If you just happen to be a waitress/waiter/bartender and smoking is permitted by law, what establishments (especially serving alcohol where the good tips are) would ban smoking? Sorry, but I believe bar owners are more interested in making money than the health of their employees.

And, higher paying jobs aren't exactly easy to find these days (unless you happen to work for the Emperor's Club).

If consumers want non-smoking establishments the way they appear to - they should do well in the marketplace.

Eve

JBean
03-11-2008, 11:51 AM
If consumers want non-smoking establishments the way they appear to - they should do well in the marketplace.

Eve
Non smoking establishments are doing well here.

eve
03-11-2008, 12:56 PM
Non smoking establishments are doing well here.

Exactly, JBean. There should be room for choice, for non-smokers and smokers alike. After all, smoking still is a legal activity, but I can certainly appreciate those who do not want to be around it, whether at work or play.

Eve

philamena
03-11-2008, 01:51 PM
Exactly, JBean. There should be room for choice, for non-smokers and smokers alike. After all, smoking still is a legal activity, but I can certainly appreciate those who do not want to be around it, whether at work or play.

Eve
Eve,
Good post!

dee10134
03-11-2008, 02:31 PM
They banned smoking in bars in Buffalo, NY and I have to say I love it as a non-smoker. It's nice coming home from the bars not smelling like a frat party.

I don't think it's too much to ask that smokers go outside if they need to light up. Most bars around here have smoking enclosures that are outside and separated away from the bar area.

What about our veterans who fought for freedoms that we enjoy ever day being forced to go outside to smoke in their own PRIVATE VFW clubs!?!? Most are senior citizens that even if they did quit, little to no health benefits would be reaped from cessation. Don't our VETERANS deserve the RIGHT to smoke in their own VFW Hall?! That makes me so angry! :furious:

What ever happened to the property RIGHTS of business owners to establish how they run their own establishment? Whether their establishment will be designated as "smoking" or "non-smoking"? Let the choice be in the hands of the CUSTOMERS, NOT the government. Do we really need them to babysit us to this extent?

I think a law should be established to allow smoking in establishments as long as they are designated as "SMOKING" via large, conspicuous signs out in front. If you're a non-smoker and you don't like it, fine, you have the choice to go down the street to a non-smoking establishment!!!

Consumer CHOICE, NOT government regulation!!!!!

AND I'M A NON-SMOKER!

Karole28
03-11-2008, 02:40 PM
What about our veterans who fought for freedoms that we enjoy ever day being forced to go outside to smoke in their own PRIVATE VFW clubs!?!? Most are senior citizens that even if they did quit, little to no health benefits would be reaped from cessation. Don't our VETERANS deserve the RIGHT to smoke in their own VFW Hall?! That makes me so angry! :furious:


Well, whether it's the right to homeschool your children or it's the right to patronize smoking establishments (or not). A whole lot of people get nervous when others have the right to choose how they live their lives and will look for any reason to curtail it. It makes them happy, helping others by choosing what's right for them.

How this country has survived so long with all of these people not having the govt to run every aspect of their lives for them, is beyond me.

It's a miracle all of us aren't dead!

dee10134
03-11-2008, 03:36 PM
Well, whether it's the right to homeschool your children or it's the right to patronize smoking establishments (or not). A whole lot of people get nervous when others have the right to choose how they live their lives and will look for any reason to curtail it. It makes them happy, helping others by choosing what's right for them.

How this country has survived so long with all of these people not having the govt to run every aspect of their lives for them, is beyond me.

It's a miracle all of us aren't dead!

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

eve
03-11-2008, 05:23 PM
What about our veterans who fought for freedoms that we enjoy ever day being forced to go outside to smoke in their own PRIVATE VFW clubs!?!? Most are senior citizens that even if they did quit, little to no health benefits would be reaped from cessation. Don't our VETERANS deserve the RIGHT to smoke in their own VFW Hall?! That makes me so angry! :furious:

What ever happened to the property RIGHTS of business owners to establish how they run their own establishment? Whether their establishment will be designated as "smoking" or "non-smoking"? Let the choice be in the hands of the CUSTOMERS, NOT the government. Do we really need them to babysit us to this extent?

I think a law should be established to allow smoking in establishments as long as they are designated as "SMOKING" via large, conspicuous signs out in front. If you're a non-smoker and you don't like it, fine, you have the choice to go down the street to a non-smoking establishment!!!

Consumer CHOICE, NOT government regulation!!!!!

AND I'M A NON-SMOKER!

:woohoo: Dee!

Great post, my feelings exactly! Think of the fact that the U.S. Military routinely handed out ciggies to soldiers, too. They got 'em hooked and then they can't even smoke (which is legal) in their own VFW Halls. They are damn mad about it around here too, and so are the waitresses I've talked to, by the way! In fact, many wait-staff I talk with say they prefer smokers and smoking establishments to work in - yup, I've been surprised to hear it, but I've heard all kinds of reasons - from "They give better tips" to "they are more fun," to "I just believe in freedom for the bar/restaurant owner."

I am so sick of the government in effect, preaching, by enacting laws like this. Just wait until it's food or something else, like sky-diving, or who knows what.

Eve

Karole28
03-11-2008, 05:32 PM
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:


Thank you and backatcha! :clap: :clap: to yours as well!

Eire
03-11-2008, 05:43 PM
Let's see, in some states you can't buy a vibrator or get a tattoo. Some genius in Mississippi wanted to let restaurants refuse service to the overweight, in most states, you almost have to set up underground smoking parlors just to have a ciggie. I already have to show ID to buy a flippin cigarette lighter. What am I going to do, light it and yell "Free Bird!" at inopportune moments? My state passed a law requiring seat belts the same month they repealed the helmet law for motorcycle riders (My head still hurts over that one). At this rate, I'll have to all "from my cold dead hands" where my coffee is concerned pretty soon. Good lord, I thought I was past the age where I needed a babysitter. I guess the government thinks otherwise. How's about we focus on real problems for a while? Like why some of those veterans Dee mentioned can't get medical care. The mind boggles.

JBean
03-11-2008, 06:30 PM
Just playing devils advocate for a second here and pointing out a differnt attitude among smokers around here.
Of all my smoking friends, they would all just a soon die rather than invade anyone elses air space. They are all so aware and repsectful of smoking inside and how offensive and dangerous it can be. They are more interested in the well being of others than they are of themselves.
Consequently they have no problem with the smoking bans because they understand that their habit is not just confined to them.There is no way to keep the smoke away from other patrons and so it makes sense to keep it out altogether.
I am surprised that so many here do not feel this way. It is more the norm to try and keep ones ciggy smoke away from others, even other smokers, than to want to smoke everywhere and insist they have some right to do so. It is just a different mind set I guess.

Paladin
03-11-2008, 09:09 PM
What about our veterans who fought for freedoms that we enjoy ever day being forced to go outside to smoke in their own PRIVATE VFW clubs!?!? Most are senior citizens that even if they did quit, little to no health benefits would be reaped from cessation. Don't our VETERANS deserve the RIGHT to smoke in their own VFW Hall?! That makes me so angry! :furious:

What ever happened to the property RIGHTS of business owners to establish how they run their own establishment? Whether their establishment will be designated as "smoking" or "non-smoking"? Let the choice be in the hands of the CUSTOMERS, NOT the government. Do we really need them to babysit us to this extent?

I think a law should be established to allow smoking in establishments as long as they are designated as "SMOKING" via large, conspicuous signs out in front. If you're a non-smoker and you don't like it, fine, you have the choice to go down the street to a non-smoking establishment!!!

Consumer CHOICE, NOT government regulation!!!!!

AND I'M A NON-SMOKER!

I'm not sure why you singled out my post. I'm all for establishments "establishing" their own rules when it comes to smoking vs. non-smoking, but hey, guess what? Some cities don't agree with you or me, and therefore, as a non-smoker I am enjoying it and I don't think smokers going outside to get some fresh air with their cigarettes hurts them.

Paladin
03-11-2008, 09:20 PM
It is more the norm to try and keep ones ciggy smoke away from others, even other smokers, than to want to smoke everywhere and insist they have some right to do so. It is just a different mind set I guess.

People have a chip on their shoulders about rights and government involvement, As proven by smokers and non-smokers alike in this very thread. People tend to get cranky when a right, even one they don't excercise, gets taken away. Then the irrational arguments arise such as likening this to trans-fats or the emotional pleas to think of how we as a health-conscious society are oh-so hurting our treasured war veterans who smoke. The last time I checked a person enjoying his french fries wasn't clogging the arteries of the people surrounding him. And not every veteran smokes.

And as you so perfectly point out, the smokers are usually the more understanding of the two sides.

JBean
03-11-2008, 09:39 PM
People have a chip on their shoulders about rights and government involvement, As proven by smokers and non-smokers alike in this very thread. People tend to get cranky when a right, even one they don't excercise, gets taken away. Then the irrational arguments arise such as likening this to trans-fats or the emotional pleas to think of how we as a health-conscious society are oh-so hurting our treasured war veterans who smoke. The last time I checked a person enjoying his french fries wasn't clogging the arteries of the people surrounding him. And not every veteran smokes.

And as you so perfectly point out, the smokers are usually the more understanding of the two sides.
Well the smokers I know, and I know a lot,always ask if I mind if they light up no matter where we are. Does it bother me? do I want them to put it out? They are very aware that their cigs may be a problem. As evryone arounds me also knows that in general I don't mind cig smoke at all. Yet they all express concern regularly and often and do not assume because I didn't mind yesterday I might not mind today.. . Anyway, my point is that
I am surprised that I am not reading more people putting others first and saying hey we understand that it can be a probelm and we will take it outside for you. Rather I am hearing I want to smoke and if you don;t like it go away.That is more troublesome to me than anything.
It does not work both ways because not smoking does not invade anyone else space.
I do not allow smoking inside my home and I would bet there are alot of smokers right on this board that do not allow it inside their homes, yet want to smoke inside a bar.

I guess to me the govt steps in on what I call *of course* issues. Seat belt is an *of course* issue for me so what do I care if it is mandatory? Motorcycle helmets, smoking indoors, and other *of course* issues just don't get me worked up when the govt tries to regulate.

Karole28
03-12-2008, 06:02 AM
Well the smokers I know, and I know a lot,always ask if I mind if they light up no matter where we are.

I think the point here is that we all want the right to choose. There is nothing wrong with having an eating establishment that advertises that they cater to smokers and/or non smokers. I don't think anyone is calling for smoking everywhere.

And, like Paladin so aptly put it, we get cranky when our rights are taken away.

capps
03-12-2008, 08:51 AM
No matter what the issue,there will always be the people that go to the extreme on either end.
I no more like a smoker who doesn't want to give an inch to compromise,than I do a nonsmoker.

I'm a smoker,and I have to admit we have the weaker side of this fight in my opinion,because let's face it,there is no redeeming factors in smoking.It's bad for you and others,period.But..being that it is my choice to smoke,I would like to think that in my own apartment,outside sitting by myself in an enclosed patio...I should be able to smoke.But you can't do that in a nonsmoking complex.To me,that's getting extreme.

But I am going to quit as of April 1st!! :)

eve
03-12-2008, 09:13 AM
I think the point here is that we all want the right to choose. There is nothing wrong with having an eating establishment that advertises that they cater to smokers and/or non smokers. I don't think anyone is calling for smoking everywhere.

And, like Paladin so aptly put it, we get cranky when our rights are taken away.

When I smoked I was like the friends JBean describes, I hated bothering anyone with smoke and gladly went outside. I feel public buildings and what -not should be smoke-free. However, there should be room for eating and drinking establishments of both varieties in a free marketplace, so people can choose. Until they outlaw smoking altogether (which they won't because it reaps them too much money) it isn't right or logical that an owner can't choose to open a smoking establishment. I especially feel this way about bars. So many people prefer smoke-free places (some smokers even do) that they would thrive.

Eve

Karole28
03-12-2008, 09:19 AM
When I smoked I was like the friends JBean describes, I hated bothering anyone with smoke and gladly went outside. I feel public buildings and what -not should be smoke-free. However, there should be room for eating and drinking establishments of both varieties in a free marketplace, so people can choose. Until they outlaw smoking altogether (which they won't because it reaps them too much money) it isn't right or logical that an owner can't choose to open a smoking establishment. I especially feel this way about bars. So many people prefer smoke-free places (some smokers even do) that they would thrive.

Eve


Everyone should be so considerate :)
I have to say, as a former bartender, smokers rock! They stay longer, drink more and that always ends up in more $$.
I believe the smoking bans in bars are now resulting on people going outdoors to smoke and walking out on tabs. :(

Bottom line, we should cherish the right to choose where and what we patron.

Elphaba
03-12-2008, 09:32 AM
That's creatively funny...

eve
03-12-2008, 09:33 AM
Everyone should be so considerate :)
I have to say, as a former bartender, smokers rock! They stay longer, drink more and that always ends up in more $$.
I believe the smoking bans in bars are now resulting on people going outdoors to smoke and walking out on tabs. :(

Bottom line, we should cherish the right to choose where and what we patron.

Not that I'm a bar-fly, Karole, - LOL - but I have heard that from bar-tenders. Some of my students waitress and/or tend bar, too, so I hear from them on the subject. I saw some people once who walked out on the tab (they were outside smoking) because one of them was very inebriated and her spouse wanted to get her home. They went back and paid it the next day, no worries.

Why are people afraid to let the marketplace decide this one?

Eve

Karole28
03-12-2008, 09:44 AM
Not that I'm a bar-fly, Karole, - LOL - but I have heard that from bar-tenders. Some of my students waitress and/or tend bar, too, so I hear from them on the subject. I saw some people once who walked out on the tab (they were outside smoking) because one of them was very inebriated and her spouse wanted to get her home. They went back and paid it the next day, no worries.

Why are people afraid to let the marketplace decide this one?

Eve

:laugh: @ barfly.

I think people are afraid of choice? Maybe they're limited in their own lives by something and want everyone to suffer the same constraints?

I really don't know.