Warren Jeffs FLDS compound in Texas surrounded by police

[SuziQ]

An FLDS compound has been surrounded by police In Eldorado, Texas.

The Eldorado Success newspaper reports nobody is being allowed in or out, and an armored personnel carrier was deployed near the ranch when it was surrounded yesterday afternoon. This may have something to do with Texas Child Protective Services. The agency has been spotted outside the YFZ Ranch, which was built by Warren Jeffs and his followers.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3004779

[SuziQ]

A small FLDS town in Texas is now filled with a barrage of law enforcement and child protection officers after a raid on a polygamous complex on Thursday.

Law enforcement is still on scene in Eldorado this morning.

The YFZ ranch is home to members of the FLDS church.

State and local law enforcement officers surrounded the YFZ ranch Thursday afternoon and made entry late last night. (more and video at link)

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=899c18e5-8013-4e7c-8db6-8a8df4b28e99

[Pepper]

Good!!!!

[imthemom]

Good!!!!

That's what I thought too, Good!!

[SuziQ]

I'm trying to hunt down more info on this. So far it's very sparce.

[Taximom]

Good! I hope there isn't any craziness ending in lost lives.

[Linda7NJ]

Apparently they are questioning children at a retreat

[Glow]

I'm glad that at least so far, everyone is remaining calm. Remember David Koresh and the Waco incident?

[SuziQ]

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/04/04/20080404CPSjeffs04-on.html

State child welfare investigators are interviewing children at a West Texas religious retreat built by polygamist leader Warren Jeffs, officials said Friday.
Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said the Texas Department of Public Safety and other law enforcement helped investigators gain access to the complex near Eldorado. She said CPS is "investigating whether any children are in danger" but said no decisions had been made on whether to remove any children. (more at link)

[NewMom2003]

I'm glad that at least so far, everyone is remaining calm. Remember David Koresh and the Waco incident?

Yes, and it immediately came to mind when I read this thread.

[Linda7NJ]

I'm glad that at least so far, everyone is remaining calm. Remember David Koresh and the Waco incident?


I remember. Remember MOVE in Philly?

[imthemom]

I doubt the children will tell because they have been so brainwashed and scared out of their minds. I seen an interview with a couple of women who had been in his community and got away. They said they would hold the babies under water or smack them in the face when they cried to teach them not to cry and that is why you never see their children cry and they had arranged marriages for little kids. I did see another polygmist colony somewhere else that was run very differently and not about abusing children. I think there are good and bad but this is definitely a bad one.

[Glow]

I remember. Remember MOVE in Philly?

I dont remember that. What was it?

[Linda7NJ]

I dont remember that. What was it?

here ya go:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4651126
http://www.cnn.com/US/9606/24/move.vertict/

[believe09]

Quite an approach considering the fact that I do not recall Jeffs being a gun toter like Koresh and his group, but I may be confused....I am wondering if there was a tip on a mass suicide/murder going to happen....

[SuziQ]

Child services did receive a "referral" that started all of this. It must have been a very serious accusation because from the time FLDS moved to Eldorado, local LE always said they wouldn't do anything to cause another WACO. LE there has given this group alot of respect and left them alone in the past.

[SuziQ]

Authorities are serving search and arrest warrants at the ranch built by polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs.
Texas Department of Public Safety spokesman Tom Vinger says the warrants are being served, but he has no other details. (more at link)

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3004779

[SuziQ]

Law enforcement officials are reportedly attempting to serve at least one arrest warrant while at the same time executing a search warrant at the YFZ Ranch, according to DPS spokesperson Tela Mange.
The news comes as other lawmen continue to enforce roadblocks around the ranch on Friday afternoon.,
During the night authorities made access to the ranch and escorted a group of Child Protective Services officers onto the property to investigate a complaint authorities reportedly received from a girl at the YFZ Ranch. (more at link)

http://www.myeldorado.net/

[SuziQ]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/04/texas.ranch/index.html

(snip)
spokeswoman for Child Protective Services told The Associated Press that a busload of children were taken from the ranch on Friday.
The wire service reported that the white bus, accompanied by state troopers, appeared to be filled with mostly girls.

[Glow]

here ya go:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4651126
http://www.cnn.com/US/9606/24/move.vertict/


Thanks Linda. I had never heard of this...how horrible and stupid that all was!

[Taximom]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/04/texas.ranch/index.html

(snip)
spokeswoman for Child Protective Services told The Associated Press that a busload of children were taken from the ranch on Friday.
The wire service reported that the white bus, accompanied by state troopers, appeared to be filled with mostly girls.

I understand the need, but this has to be so traumatic for them. I really hope CPS was ready for this and has lots of caring staff there to help explain what is going on.

[SuziQ]

I understand the need, but this has to be so traumatic for them. I really hope CPS was ready for this and has lots of caring staff there to help explain what is going on.

I feel the same way. Especially since the kids are raised to fear anyone and anything outside of their limited world.

[okietexan]

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/ContentDetail?contentId=6223403

This was just on our local news. There have been allegations of child abuse at the YFZ site in ElDorado. This is one of Warren Jeff's many polygamist compounds. Those poor kids.....

[SuziQ]

Whoa! Authorities are downplaying the significance of their actions. IMO, removing 52 kids from their homes says this is MAJOR!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/04/texas.ranch/index.html

Authorities say they removed 52 children, ages 6 months to 17 years, from a West Texas ranch occupied by followers of imprisoned polygamist sect leader Warren Jeffs.

[SuziQ]

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3004779

(snips)
The investigation started when a girl from inside the ranch called police saying she was sexually abused. That's why the Texas Department of Family Services got involved and, with help from sheriff's deputies, entered the ranch to talk to people.
***
A few hours ago, the Texas Department of Public Safety also said they were still serving search and arrest warrants and were looking for some people. As of right now, no arrests have been made. "It appears they may be settling in for a long ordeal here," Mankin said. "They've also got a no-fly zone 5,000 feet above and five miles around. You can't even fly over the thing now."

[Texana]

Warren Jeffs and his followers for far too long have acted in complete disregard for the laws of the land. About time this happened.

[SuziQ]

http://www.abc4.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=540ffaeb-dc67-40dc-8757-4f0aac3388c1

(snips)
A bus load of children, half of which are pregnant teens, were taken from the complex.
***
The encounter began as a result of a protective order filed in a Texas court on behalf of a 16-year-old girl, who informed authorities that she was being abused. When police tried to serve the order, sect followers tried to block the officers' entry. When police showed up with an armored vehicle and informed the followers they would run through the blockade, the sect members allowed them through.

[SuziQ]

http://www.kutv.com/content/news/topnews/story.aspx?content_id=899c18e5-8013-4e7c-8db6-8a8df4b28e99

(snip)
Local police, along with Texas State troopers (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/) and the Texas Rangers (http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/director_staff/texas_rangers/) sealed off the compound on Thursday night -- after receiving a complaint from a runaway that children inside were being sexually abused

[SuziQ]

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/state&id=6028847

(snip)
The warrant seeks records dealing with the birth of children to a 16-year-old and any records listing a marriage between a 50-year-old man and the girl, according to the San Angelo Standard-Times, which cited court records released late Friday in Tom Green County. Prosecutors in Tom Green, a larger county north of Eldorado, were handling the case.

[mysteriew]

This one has been a long time coming. I am glad it is going peacefully, and glad that finally they can get those girls out of there.

But I am wondering about the boys. There were some rumors in the past.

[SeriouslySearching]

It is about time!! Good!! I am glad the girl called and freed those poor children from such a place. She did absolutely the right thing and so did LE. Bravo!!!

[scarpetta]

The FDLS church purchased the "Yearning for Zion Ranch" in 2004 and started building. The article said that a girl from the compound called and complained about girls being abused there, and that's what caused the raid. It also stated that local officials have been complaining for years about the religious sect being there.

I am wondering what they were complaining about other than the fact that it was there and it was a religious sect.

[SuziQ]

This one has been a long time coming. I am glad it is going peacefully, and glad that finally they can get those girls out of there.

But I am wondering about the boys. There were some rumors in the past.

Young men and boys are in some ways treated as bady as women are. They are viewed as competition by older men, if you get my drift. And they are literally tossed out into the desert with no money, no food and nowhere to go.

[SuziQ]

The Lost Boys of Utah:

http://www.childbrides.org/boys.html

They are just young men (mostly young teenagers) who have become competition to the older men who want more (and usually much younger) wives. They are kicked out of their homes and run out of town. They often leave with just the shirts on their backs. Most have minimum education and few life-skills. But, the Prophet said that they must go away. So their parents cast them out like unwanted pets. Now, they are out on the street trying to fend for themselves. They are known as the "Lost Boys".

Read the tragic stories of their attempting to survive and to integrate into mainstream society. These articles are in chronological order. (more at link)

[SuziQ]

http://www.childbrides.org/boys_DN_lost_boys.html

UNIDENTIFIED MALE They simply knock on their door and take them and let them off in the desert.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NORVILLE: Some as young as 13. And wait until you hear why.

Tonight, exclusive, one of polygamy‘s darkest secrets.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terrifying, absolutely terrifying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From studio 3K in Rockefeller Center, Deborah Norville.

And good evening, everybody. Imagine you‘re as young as 13 years old and you‘re being kicked out of your home, told to leave your community with nothing more than the clothes on your back, nowhere to go, no food to eat. (more at link)

[sherri79]

The FDLS church purchased the "Yearning for Zion Ranch" in 2004 and started building. The article said that a girl from the compound called and complained about girls being abused there, and that's what caused the raid. It also stated that local officials have been complaining for years about the religious sect being there.

I am wondering what they were complaining about other than the fact that it was there and it was a religious sect.
if i was the local official i know what i would complain about. this sect allows the marriage of child brides. i would not want that associated with my town. who wants their town known as "the place the crazy people that marry young girls lives."

[scarpetta]

if i was the local official i know what i would complain about. this sect allows the marriage of child brides. i would not want that associated with my town. who wants their town known as "the place the crazy people that marry young girls lives."

If they have been there since 2004 and the locals knew this then I guess their hands were tied if there were no eye witnesses and no members were complaining. That's what it looks like anyway.

[sherri79]

If they have been there since 2004 and the locals knew this then I guess their hands were tied if there were no eye witnesses and no members were complaining. That's what it looks like anyway. sounds like it to me. i am shocked they got a complaint now. it is rare that these girls speak out.

[philamena]

A total of 52 girls, ages 6 months to 17 years, were bused away on Friday to be interviewed, but only 18 were immediately taken into state custody, said Texas Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner. No arrests had been made.
Meisner said welfare officials were looking for foster homes for the girls, most of whom have rarely been outside the insular world of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They were being housed for now at a civic center, she said.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIdMpRHjN4hpNKBhfYyAsR4DDo4QD8VREMAG0

[mysteriew]

No, this is what I was referring to.

A sexual-abuse lawsuit filed against Jeffs by his nephew, Brent, also is being dismissed.
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,5143,695263156,00.html

I don't know how widespread it was, but may not have been just girls.

[SuziQ]

I gotcha before. I just wanted to point out the other ways boys are abused in FLDS as well. That it's not just the female population in general. IMO, you are screwed in that faith unless you are a perverted old fart.

[chiperoni]

I gotcha before. I just wanted to point out the other ways boys are abused in FLDS as well. That it's not just the female population in general. IMO, you are screwed in that faith unless you are a perverted old fart.

Abolutely. The POFs have young wives, control all the money, and and don't work. They are revered because they claim they have visions and messages from God.

[Taximom]

What a bunch of creeps. :mad:

I'll be praying for these young kids. I know they must be scared.

[SuziQ]

What a bunch of creeps. :mad:

I'll be praying for these young kids. I know they must be scared.

Taxi, I guarantee these kids are terrified and might even feel death for them is soon. They have been brainwashed and lied to about what the world is about. They've been taught things about the world, history, life, that is pure fiction. You can probably compare it to being told the world is flat but worse. That's really why TV watching is not allowed. They don't want their people to know any different.

ETA: when people do leave the FLDS, they've literally stepped onto a different planet.

[mysteriew]

The opposition to the raid has already started making complaints about the raid. And no one is stating the obvious. The level of authority needed just to get into the compound. When they barred the compound doors, they possibly committed a crime- obstruction of justice or interfering with official business or something.

Authorities had the warrants, but the 'citizens' in the compound attempt to thwart them.

Once they got in, if they found other children possibly being abused they would have to take them. And probably all they had to do was look around at the number of young girls holding babies or say if you are under a certain age and in a spiritual committment/marriage raise your hand.

[Filly]

I remember. Remember MOVE in Philly?

Linda, do you know the name of the guy that had the child with one of the Africa's a few years ago? He wanted to get custody and then he wound up dead over in Jersey at his apartment? Sorry for the hijack. I remember my dad making a ton of overtime back then. He'd tell us about them rats down there as big as cats and all. Compunds are cwayzzzy.

[concernedperson]

Taxi, I guarantee these kids are terrified and might even feel death for them is soon. They have been brainwashed and lied to about what the world is about. They've been taught things about the world, history, life, that is pure fiction. You can probably compare it to being told the world is flat but worse. That's really why TV watching is not allowed. They don't want their people to know any different.

ETA: when people do leave the FLDS, they've literally stepped onto a different planet.

I hope authorities are sensitive to this as it appears very complicated to make a transition to the regular world. But, the world they were living in was horrible for all children to endure. Slavery and worst....spirit robbing of children due to abuse.

[golfmom]

After generations, I think they're genetically WRONG. :(

[SuziQ]

After generations, I think they're genetically WRONG. :(

There is a genetic study at the University of Utah based on that, that's been going on for decades. Their babies are also born with so many defects. Way above the norm for the general population. At the moment I can't recall the name of polygamist group in Northern Utah that's the main focus of this study. They own and operate "Waste Management". Yes, that is the same Waste Management that operates all over the U.S. Anyways, they were on a plane with me and my family, returning from Disneyland. They all look the same and have an odd FAS/Downs look about them. IIRC, this groups doctrine mandates that marriages be second cousins or closer. Uncles and nieces are the most common. How do they hide these marriage arraingements? The wives/nieces rarely live with the men. And when confronted by authorities, the women say things like they took sperm from a used condom and impregnated themselves with a turkey baster.

There is alot of welfare fraud involved with these groups as the women will not be truthfull about who the father is and claim to have had a one night stand with a trucker so they can collect welfare benefits.

[SuziQ]

They are the Kingston Clan:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy25.html


On a dilapidated dairy farm at the end of Redwood Road in Woods Cross, the late John Ortell Kingston, would-be Utah dairy king and self-anointed leader of one of the largest polygamous clans in America, fancied himself a geneticist. In breeding stock, he looked for high milk production. At home, the desired traits were his own. "My father experimented inbreeding with his cattle and then he turned to his children," says Connie Rugg, one of John Ortell's estimated 65 children and one of a handful of Kingston relatives who have fled the clan. Faced with the forced marriage to an uncle, Rugg left the Kingstons.
"All my life, my family told me I had to marry a Kingston," says Rugg. "I could choose, but it had to be a brother, uncle or cousin."
While the clan shares many of the beliefs of other polygamous groups in Utah, incest, for many of the Kingston leaders, is their indelible difference. (more at link)

[golfmom]

I read "Under the Banner" ... what an eye-opener that book is.

But, seriously besides the physical defects ... these folks are kooks, who continue to breed, perpetuating generation after generation of kookier kooks.

It's as if you would take two paranoid schizophrenics, who have children ... whose children only marry paranoid schizophrenics and fast forward 5 generations. To my mind, this disaster is the kind you get.

If animals were bred that way ... well, it would be BAD.

[golfmom]

Jeez, how funny we were posting the same concept simultaneously.

[SuziQ]

Info on the Kingston's businesses and money. For all the money they have, the women and children are set up in a dump somewhere and have to scrounge for food. DFS have time and time again removed the kids from horrid living conditions.

http://tinyurl.com/54fq4a

[SuziQ]

Jeez, how funny we were posting the same concept simultaneously.

Scary concept too. Grandpa Kingston literally raised his family to breed like his cows.

[golfmom]

I was taken aback by the "lost boys" link you provided. I knew about the abuse that the women and girls suffered, but never realized that the boys were just kicked out.

It's really no different than animal behavior ... say like a pride of lions.

[Glow]

I was taken aback by the "lost boys" link you provided. I knew about the abuse that the women and girls suffered, but never realized that the boys were just kicked out.

It's really no different than animal behavior ... say like a pride of lions.

or a herd of horses....

[golfmom]

or a herd of horses....

Yep ... it's animal behavior. Not human behavior.

[SuziQ]

OMG!!! 167 kids removed! ETA: It's a miracle that this did not turn violent.

http://www.myeldorado.net/

Buses from Schleicher County ISD and First Baptist Church of Eldorado were pressed into service Friday to transport 167 children away from the YFZ Ranch where they had been removed from their parents custody by Texas Child Protective Services in accordance with a court order issued by 51st District Judge Barbara Walther.
The children range in age from 6 months of 17 years. There are 96 boys and 71 girls. CPS is trying to determine if the parents of the babies are among the young girls they took into custody, or if the parents even live at the YFZ Ranch.

[SuziQ]

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/05/official-on-children-at-flds-ranch-it-is-not-for/

Official on children at FLDS ranch: 'It is not safe for them to remain'

(snip)
According to state law, a girl younger than 17 cannot consent to have sex unless her partner is less than three years older than she, or she is married. Girls younger than 16, however, cannot be married, even with parental consent, and according to the birth date listed in the warrant, the girl was only 15 when she gave birth.

[Linda7NJ]

I think it's fabulous that CPS and law enforcement came swooping in the way they did after one phone call from a 16 yr old girl! :woohoo:

[chiperoni]

I pray there is some way to prosecute more leaders and disband these sects in the US. So much harm and abuse has occurred especially with innocent children. If the children leave the sect they are in a strange world with no education and often without their mother. Most of the children who have left have experienced distant oppressive fathers who kick out their sons and arrange pedophile marriages. It's a very politically layered society. Morally corrupt men have assumed power claiming personal messages from God and cut their people off from God if they don't obey.
Women are naturally encouraged to compete for favor with their husbands. Not all the families are like this but even the "normal" ones are at the mercy of the power structure and well-intentioned fathers cannot even protect their own daughters. Jeffs has been prosecuted but what about the rest? There is a lot of money and property involved. If the federal courts could disband these sects before any more harm is done many children could be saved from mental , sexual, and physical child abuse. Child abuse takes place in the shadows.

[SuziQ]

http://www.myeldorado.net/

School buses and buses from First Baptist Church of Eldorado were used Friday and Saturday to transport 183 persons from the YFZ Ranch. Of that number, 137 were said to be children 17 years and younger. The remainder were adult women. All were taken to the Schleicher County Civic Center where the children were turned over to Child Protective Services.

[barb0301]

The latest from the El Dorado paper at 6pm CDT says that 3 ambulances were seen heading past the law enforcement checkpoint to the compound.

The San Angelo paper is reporting that the leaders at the compound have now refused to allow LE to enter the temple in their search for the 16 year old who first reported the abuse.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/05/183-removed-from-flds-compound-so-far/

http://www.myeldorado.net/

I am worried about the safety of the 16 year old. If she is not out yet, she is in extreme danger.

[SuziQ]

The latest from the El Dorado paper at 6pm CDT says that 3 ambulances were seen heading past the law enforcement checkpoint to the compound.

That doesn't sound good. Thanks for the update.

[concernedperson]

That really doesn't sound good. I hope she is OK.

[believe09]

So now she is in a hostage situation? What was the point of that? They think LE and CPS will return the kids with that kind of behavior???

Now I would really, truly worry about murder/suicide...let's hope some of the people who left the ranch can provide a picture of what might be going on inside of the temple. I cannot imagine that the temple cannot be entered if there is probable cause to think that something is happening in there...or perhaps I am misreading the stories.

[Linda7NJ]

nevermind..I am bothering to read BOTH links provided:)

[SuziQ]

LE was doing a door to door search today with the intent of removing every single child from the ranch.

http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/565176.html

[SuziQ]

Authorities are preparing for a nightmare scenario as they continue to seek access to the temple at the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints' ranch near Eldorado.
Ambulances are being brought in, said Allison Palmer, who as first assistant 51st District attorney would prosecute any felony crimes uncovered as part of the investigation inside the compound. (more at link)

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/05/authorities-prepare-for-worst-in-efforts-to-area/

[Pepper]

Mormons, whether traditional or FLDS do not allow regular folk inside their temples once the temple is dedicated. So I imagine they will go to any length to keep the non FLDS out. This could get ugly. I wonder why the news channels aren't covering it?

[sherri79]

Mormons, whether traditional or FLDS do not allow regular folk inside their temples once the temple is dedicated. So I imagine they will go to any length to keep the non FLDS out. This could get ugly. I wonder why the news channels aren't covering it? turn the child over and end it if they do not want anyone in their temple imo.

[SuziQ]

I've been wondering myself why newscrews haven't swamped that place.

[barb0301]

I've been wondering myself why newscrews haven't swamped that place.

Same question here ! I live about 150 miles from there, and the nearest large commercial airport would be in San Antonio. With the NCAA Final Four here this weekend, flights in/out for outsiders would be hard to come by. I imagine local stations from here, Dallas, Houston may be on their way now. It is way out in the boonies, nearest mid-size place to stay would be San Angelo.

This could turn out to be a real nightmare. Sure hope to see a peaceful resolution overnight.

[Pepper]

Fax news had a teaser about it a couple of minutes ago, so I think they are going to cover it during this hour.

[Pepper]

On right now!

[believe09]

I thought they had the compound pretty well sealed off from media and lurkers...I am sure that the idea of the media filming anything that might evolve into a WACO was squashed from the get go.

Then they should bring in a Mormon to search the temple then....I know there are pockets of LDS all over TX- Riley Sawyer aka Baby Grace was murdered by her stepfather who was LDS along with the rest of his extended family...just to give you an example, not to compare the two situations or make a judgment about LDS.

[barb0301]

Interesting articles w/ some pictures:

http://blogs.sltrib.com/plurallife/

http://www.sltrib.com/

Also, check out this blog:

http://texaspolygamy.blogspot.com/

[froggierintexas]

I sure hope the young lady who made the report is safe and far away from these people.
I have a question for anyone who is learned on the subject. I know that FLDS women tend to look a certain way and their attire and hair seems to always look identical. Does the same go for LDS women? The reason I ask is that in the last four years I know that I have seen the same group of women and girls and young boys shopping in one of our local stores more times than I can count. And the frequency has really increased to a noticable degree. When you smile and say hi they look at you as if you are the Devil himself. Except for the really curious young kids. And I tend to smile and say Hi to everyone I encounter in a day. Anyway, I wonder if they are FLDS. I also find it odd that they all pile in a van or a truck bed with a man that is waiting in the lot.

[Truly]

I have a question, too.

Why, when some Perverted Old Freaks (POF) sexually abuse children in the name of religion, do people break out the kid gloves instead of reacting with absolute outrage as they do in all the other threads about child sexual abuse?

Is there something in the bible that says that creepy old dudes have some right to Eff their young daughters? Does anybody here agree that creepy old dudes should have any right to force a young girl to have sex with her older male relatives? Speak up, anybody who actually believes that a creepy old man has the right to rape and molest children in the name of his religion.

If that is his religion, then his religion is a lie.

[concernedperson]

I have a question, too.

Why, when some Perverted Old Freaks (POF) sexually abuse children in the name of religion, do people break out the kid gloves instead of reacting with absolute outrage as they do in all the other threads about child sexual abuse?

Is there something in the bible that says that creepy old dudes have some right to Eff their young daughters? Does anybody here agree that creepy old dudes should have any right to force a young girl to have sex with her older male relatives? Speak up, anybody who actually believes that a creepy old man has the right to rape and molest children in the name of his religion.

If that is his religion, then his religion is a lie.

Nope, he is a common sexual pervert and belongs in jail. Period.

[barb0301]

Nope, he is a common sexual pervert and belongs in jail. Period.

Absolutely, 100% agreed

[JanetElaine]

Speak up, anybody who actually believes that a creepy old man has the right to rape and molest children in the name of his religion.

I'm thinking it's going to be pretty quiet here. :)

[JanetElaine]

The latest from the El Dorado paper at 6pm CDT says that 3 ambulances were seen heading past the law enforcement checkpoint to the compound.

The San Angelo paper is reporting that the leaders at the compound have now refused to allow LE to enter the temple in their search for the 16 year old who first reported the abuse.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/05/183-removed-from-flds-compound-so-far/

http://www.myeldorado.net/

I am worried about the safety of the 16 year old. If she is not out yet, she is in extreme danger.

That scares me. I hope she is safe. What a brave girl she must be!

[SuziQ]

I sure hope the young lady who made the report is safe and far away from these people.
I have a question for anyone who is learned on the subject. I know that FLDS women tend to look a certain way and their attire and hair seems to always look identical. Does the same go for LDS women? The reason I ask is that in the last four years I know that I have seen the same group of women and girls and young boys shopping in one of our local stores more times than I can count. And the frequency has really increased to a noticable degree. When you smile and say hi they look at you as if you are the Devil himself. Except for the really curious young kids. And I tend to smile and say Hi to everyone I encounter in a day. Anyway, I wonder if they are FLDS. I also find it odd that they all pile in a van or a truck bed with a man that is waiting in the lot.

The kind of group you are talking about is a polygamist group. They are all over the U.S. and of various offshoot faiths. And they will never aknowledge let alone speak to someone outside their faith. The men are the only ones allowed to. And they have to pile into a van or truck bed because they can't all fit in a regular car. lol. Other than looking exceptionally clean cut and the girls are very cute, you can't tell LDS people apart from the general public.

ETA: I've got the same cold treatment you have when I first moved to Utah and made the mistake of saying hello to a group of them.

[SuziQ]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/05/texas.ranch/index.html

Possible standoff looms at polygamist ranch

(snip regarding the 16 year olds husband-POF's pic included)
The warrant cited an "immediate need" for authorities to have access to the 16-year-old and an 8-month-old child with either the last name of Barlow or the girl's last name. It instructs law enforcement officers to look for any records showing that Barlow and the girl were married and any evidence of them having a child.
Barlow is in Arizona and does not know his accuser, his probation officer told The Salt Lake Tribune.
"He said the authorities had called him [in Colorado City, Arizona], and some girl had accused him of assaulting her, and he didn't even know who she was," Bill Loader said.
Barlow pleaded no contest last year to conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor, The Associated Press reported.
He was ordered to register as a sex offender for three years, according to the AP.
His lawyer in that case told the AP he had not spoken to Barlow in a year.

[SuziQ]

Then they should bring in a Mormon to search the temple then....

That would be a great idea except the FLDS hates the LDS church because the LDS church excommunicated them all when they outlawed polygamy. Which is why they all started their own communities. Maybe they can appeal to Warren Jeffs to intervene for the safety of his people?

[froggierintexas]

The kind of group you are talking about is a polygamist group. They are all over the U.S. and of various offshoot faiths. And they will never aknowledge let alone speak to someone outside their faith. The men are the only ones allowed to. And they have to pile into a van or truck bed because they can't all fit in a regular car. lol. Other than looking exceptionally clean cut and the girls are very cute, you can't tell LDS people apart from the general public.

Thanks.

[SuziQ]

Thanks.

Lol, you are welcome. Living in Utah, you are kinda bombarded with this stuff whether you want to be or not.

[Floh]

Lol, you are welcome. Living in Utah, you are kinda bombarded with this stuff whether you want to be or not.

I once lived in Utah. yes you are bombarded with stuff.

this group in Eldorado relocated there because it made for easier access to and from Mexico. a branch of the group live there and they trade girls over the boarder back and to.

all this is long overdue for investigation and the fact authorities acted upon the call by one 16 year-old is because they have been awaiting a concrete reason to go in. this was it.

more power to them to smash this oppressive cult and free the children forever.

watch out for Flora Jessop whom i expect to take a part in helping the girls especially to adjust to their new life.

The Flora Jessop story: http://www.helpthechildbrides.com/stories/florajessopautobio.htm

[SuziQ]

I love Flora Jessop!

[Truly]

According to the search warrant, authorities are looking for Dale Barlow, 50, whom they suspect of having married and fathered a child with a 16-year-old girl. http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gifWatch an Eldorado neighbor talk about the raid » (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/05/texas.ranch/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)
Don't Miss

KWES: San Angelo judge issues gag order after raid (http://www.kwes.com/Global/story.asp?S=8119046)Law enforcement agencies raided the ranch Thursday night after receiving a report Monday that a 16-year-old girl had been "sexually and physically abused," Azar said.http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/.element/img/2.0/mosaic/tabs/video.gifWatch buses take girls from compound » (http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/05/texas.ranch/index.html#cnnSTCVideo)
The warrant cited an "immediate need" for authorities to have access to the 16-year-old and an 8-month-old child with either the last name of Barlow or the girl's last name. It instructs law enforcement officers to look for any records showing that Barlow and the girl were married and any evidence of them having a child.
Barlow is in Arizona and does not know his accuser, his probation officer told The Salt Lake Tribune.
"He said the authorities had called him [in Colorado City, Arizona], and some girl had accused him of assaulting her, and he didn't even know who she was," Bill Loader said.
Barlow pleaded no contest last year to conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor, The Associated Press reported.
He was ordered to register as a sex offender for three years, according to the AP




These creepy old men always turn out to be the most despicable cowards. Does the bible mention anywhere that these men are the scum of the earth? Do people who read the bible realize that these men are the scum of the earth? I honestly don't care what these creeps claim to believe. No one ever, in any period of history, has ever had the right to force anyone to marry or have sex with anyone else. Every instance of forcible sex in the name of religion has been wrong. Yet it happens all the time. As soon as we rid ourselves of these perverts, the better for us all. I hope they do more than rescue the kids. They need to arrest and prosecute the creepy old men who have kept this cult alive. Their leader was on the top ten FBI wanted list until he was finally captured and convicted.

I really wonder, when religion is mentioned as a defence, why do people go all soft and mushy and silent? Why don't people jump in and stand up for these kids as you would for any victim of child sexual assault? The regular religious posters have been mighty silent on this matter. Does that mean they condone it? Is there anything anywhere in christian teaching to condone this? Does anyone here agree with creepy old men forcing young girls to have sex with other creepy old men?

Even if your religion says yes, please tell me that you say no.

Or do the ardently faithful defer to religious beliefs at the expense of children? :mad: I just don't comprehend how any mom could put anything, any man, any god, above her kids. Especially when she can see these men telling lies right in front of her face in order to sexually abuse her kids.

[SuziQ]

http://www.myeldorado.net/

The site won't let me copy and paste. But SWAT made entry and no report of violence.

[SuziQ]

Local and state officials entered the temple of a secretive polygamist sect late Saturday, said lawmen blockading the road to the YFZ Ranch near Eldorado.
The action comes hours after local prosecutors said officials were preparing for the worst because a group of FLDS members were resisting efforts to search the structure.
The Texas Department of Public Safety trooper and Schleicher County sheriff’s deputy confirmed that officials have entered the temple but said they had no word on whether anything occurred in the effort. (more at link)

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/05/authorities-prepare-for-worst-in-efforts-to-area/

[Floh]

I love Flora Jessop!

So do i! :)

[chiperoni]

Sorry if this was already posted here's an article from the SL Tribune which shows a picture of Dale Barlow the accused sexual abuser of the unidentified 16 year old. LE has not said they found the girl yet.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_8823648?source=rss

[trixie]

I have not read all the links but I heard on Fox news today that they've removed over 200 girls from age 6 months to 17 years old. Half of the girls are pregnant.

[chiperoni]

The Swat Team entered temple.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_8827762

[chiperoni]

I have not read all the links but I heard on Fox news today that they've removed over 200 girls from age 6 months to 17 years old. Half of the girls are pregnant.

That is such sexual abuse. I wonder whether there will be more charges.

[ttrachel04]

wow. this is getting INTENSE.

according to cnn, foxnews and msnbc, the situation is still pretty bad. all 3 websites say that authorities are 'preparing for the worst.'

the local stations don't really have TOO much on it, and if they do it hasn't been updated for awhile ... but considering the fact that it's the middle of the night, sunday morning, that isn't surprising. they probably have someone manning the desk and monitoring the situation, and will call a reporter and producer if something HUGE happens.

[golfmom]

I was just catching up what's been going on with the sect in the last 5 years or so. I gotta tell you, Flora Jessop is one smart cookie. She caught on to what was going on in Eldorado long before anyone else. Check out this article from 2004 where she begins to alert people that the sect may be planning to set up headquarters there. They even ask her, "What if she's wrong?"

Jessop says she is convinced that the FLDS has set its sights on Eldorado. That means she has set her sights here, too. When asked what if she is wrong about the buildings that are going up just north of town, and what if they turn out to be nothing more than a corporate hunting retreat, she just pauses and says, “I'm not wrong. This has all the signs and it people need to be aware.”

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/6586/who-is-flora-jessop-and-why-is-she-coming-to-eldorado

[Pepper]

I have a question, too.

Why, when some Perverted Old Freaks (POF) sexually abuse children in the name of religion, do people break out the kid gloves instead of reacting with absolute outrage as they do in all the other threads about child sexual abuse?

Is there something in the bible that says that creepy old dudes have some right to Eff their young daughters? Does anybody here agree that creepy old dudes should have any right to force a young girl to have sex with her older male relatives? Speak up, anybody who actually believes that a creepy old man has the right to rape and molest children in the name of his religion.

If that is his religion, then his religion is a lie.

Of course you are right. Unfortunately this happens among other sects too, and it needs to stop! Here is an interesting link about the Amish and if you take the time to read through the pages, you will find that sexual abuse of children, as well as physicial abuse of children happens and is ignored by law enforcement, because it is thought that the Amish will punish their own. However Amish punishment is usually a period of shunning, which does nothing to prevent further abuse.

http://www.amishdeception.com/Home.htm

[SuziQ]

A couple of years back Flora Jessop went back to Colorado City with a news crew from 20/20 or something like that. She would only go in disguise and in a vehicle with a tinted window. She was visibly scared and shaking, you could hear it in her voice. LE in town followed them and harrased them. BTW, LE were law breaking polygamists themselves. The rumor is, and may not be a rumor at all, is that the reason Flora packs a gun is because the FLDS has put a bounty on her head.

[SuziQ]

These groups can be scary. I can understand why flora packs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ervil_LeBaron

While in prison, LeBaron continued to order his remaining followers to murder his opponents, including some of his wives and children. It has estimated that upwards of 25 people were killed as result of LeBaron's prison-cell orders. Many of his family members and other ex-members of the group still remain in hiding for fear of retribution from LeBaron's remaining followers. Before his death, he reportedly wrote a 400 page "bible" (The Book of the New Covenants) which included a commandment to kill disobedient church members. Some 20 copies were printed.
Several of his followers have been convicted for murder, while others are still on the run. Ervil's daughter Jacqueline Tarsa LeBaron (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Jacqueline_Tarsa_LeBaron&action=edit&redlink=1) is wanted by the FBI (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/cei/lebaron_jt.htm).

[SuziQ]

Mormon Fundamentalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_fundamentalism

[SuziQ]

I still can't copy and paste from the below linked site. But LE told patrons of a coffee shop that the temple search was productive and worth the effort. That authorities found every thing they wanted and more...

http://www.myeldorado.net/

[Taximom]

Thanks for the updates. I remember seeing segments about this group on shows like 20/20 (or whatever). I can't believe they've gotten away with this for so long, frankly. I feel very sorry for those young girls because of what they've gone through. Hopefully life will get better for them in the long run, but it's sure going to take a while to get deprogrammed. As in decades.

[mysteriew]

I remember when we were looking into Synanon (sp?) and other cults. And some contact was made with past members. They were fearful and secretive decades later. Jeffs "religion" reminds me a lot of Synanon.

Very secretive, marrying at young ages, forced marriages, marriages at the whim of the "church", remarrying at the whim of the "church." Everyone required to serve the "church" leaders.

[mysteriew]

You know it is pretty amazing. They entered on Thurs. to get one girl. Now here it is Sun. and they are still there and more than a hundred have been removed to check on their welfare. I am so thankful that it has been peaceful, despite the leaderships threats. If Jeffs had been there I am afraid that it wouldn't have been so peaceful.

[ttrachel04]

i agree with you mysteriew ... even though i was VERY VERY little when it happened, i keep having memories of waco. hopefully it will NOT go that far.

[Floh]

I was just catching up what's been going on with the sect in the last 5 years or so. I gotta tell you, Flora Jessop is one smart cookie. She caught on to what was going on in Eldorado long before anyone else. Check out this article from 2004 where she begins to alert people that the sect may be planning to set up headquarters there. They even ask her, "What if she's wrong?"

Jessop says she is convinced that the FLDS has set its sights on Eldorado. That means she has set her sights here, too. When asked what if she is wrong about the buildings that are going up just north of town, and what if they turn out to be nothing more than a corporate hunting retreat, she just pauses and says, “I'm not wrong. This has all the signs and it people need to be aware.”

http://www.religionnewsblog.com/6586/who-is-flora-jessop-and-why-is-she-coming-to-eldorado

I remember from way back then the stories about Eldorado. and the circumstances of the FLDS.

Flora is the business! just wonderful.

i only wish the people who could have done something had listened to her.

[LionRun]

I just heard on our local news that they are still looking for the girl who made the call to initially report the abuse. I sure hope that she is found safe.

They mentioned that they were making sure that she is not already among the 200 or so girls who were removed from that compound. What a courageous girl to have made the initial report! She and all of the girls and children are in my prayers.

Lion

[SuziQ]

Still can't copy and paste. The latest is CPS aknowedges relocating 159 children and 60 adults. Most adults said to be mothers of young babies. Search ongoing, no word on when the 4 day raid will conclude. Firefighters used Jaws of Life to enter the temple. KSL.com is reporting that the 16 year old girl has not been located and authorities have not named a legal basis for removing so many people which at last count is over 200.

http://www.myeldorado.net/

[SuziQ]

Authorities have now removed a total of 219 residents from the polygamous ranch and are continuing to look for more children in the remote secretive compound.
Of the 219 taken, 159 are children.
Most of Sunday was spent busing the residents 45 miles northward to Fort Concho in San Angelo.
But Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marliegh Meisner said they do not believe they have found all of the children. (more at link)

http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/565881.html

[Glow]

Is anyone but me wondering exactly how this is all playing out for the children who have been removed. Let me suggest some possible scenerios...

what about nursing infants? Did their mothers get to go?

What about a mother of say, a 4 year old little boy. He was taken and she is not one of the 59 adults who were also taken. What must she be feeling. How about the little boy?

What about authorities having not named a legal basis for removing so many people?

It's easy to just go with the obvious and feel relief that "somebody" is finally doing "something" about an obviously bad situation, but what kind of precedents are being established here?

[barb0301]

Is anyone but me wondering exactly how this is all playing out for the children who have been removed. Let me suggest some possible scenerios...

what about nursing infants? Did their mothers get to go?

What about a mother of say, a 4 year old little boy. He was taken and she is not one of the 59 adults who were also taken. What must she be feeling. How about the little boy?

What about authorities having not named a legal basis for removing so many people?

It's easy to just go with the obvious and feel relief that "somebody" is finally doing "something" about an obviously bad situation, but what kind of precedents are being established here?

According to news reports that I have read, many of the women left the compound with their children. Here is one that states some mothers left: http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/565539.html I would hazard a guess that unless the CPS workers felt that the mother was an imminent risk to the child, they would be allowed to leave the compound with the children, at least until the initial interviewing was done and a decision was made.

At this point, only 18 girls have had been placed in foster care. A hearing is scheduled for later this week (maybe Monday) for an update on the case to the judge. As far as them not publicly announcing a legal basis, there is a gag order in place. You will not be hearing a whole lot of info from the authorities for now. According to this article, they did find enough evidence to feel as if the children were in imminent danger: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/05/official-on-children-at-flds-ranch-it-is-not-for/

For one, I am glad it is being handled as it is. It seems as if the authorities are trying as hard as they can to respect the differences in the way of life that the children have been brought up in compared to how most of us and yet, comply with the law and protect these children. I hope that the precedent is being set that we WILL protect our children, at all costs and NOT let them be ABUSED and USED in the name of religion.

jmho !!

[SuziQ]

Glow, I have the same questions. Not to sound flip or make a joke, but I hope they have a good OB/GYN with this group. And while I cheer the fact that someone is finally taking action against this group, I hope it doesn't backfire and hurt futher down the line when it ends up in court...if it ever does. I hope LE is going exactly by the book. These women and children could end up being sent back to their abusers and the one's that are viewed or merely rumored as having cooperated with LE will be punished severly.

[mysteriew]

Technically they are going overboard to protect the women and children. If children are found to be in immenient danger, the authorities have no obligation to take the mothers too- and in all cases before, they have not done so. The children would be removed and possibly the mother would also be charged. So they are bending over backwards to make this the least traumatic as they can- both for the mothers and the children.

I am reading a lot of commentary that says LE couldn't do this. Except they can. They received a complaint of abuse, they had a duty to investigate. When they attempted to investigate, they got a search warrant to do so. Members of the compound broke the law when they attempted to deny entry to the authorities.

When child services find a child they believe to be in immentient danger, they are required by law to protect the child and remove it from a harmful situation. Getting a hearing and a court order comes later.

If authorities made any mistakes, it would be in releasing the name of the suspect in the case. When they made the call to the suspect, the leaders knew which child to hide. I fear for that child- and her child. Because either she will be beaten and threatened to deny what she said, or she will be killed so that she cannot give evidence about the church. And her child will have to be taken from her so that she cannot be matched to the child through DNA, and so that no suspect can be matched.

My greatest fear is that some girl made this call about herself, and out of fear of being found out used an alias and gave a false name about the suspect who harmed her. The man she named would have been known to her through the congregation and through his history of arrest for the other child. But she may have used his name hoping that it would give her more credibility. If she did, there is a possibility this might fail, and because of the 'scandal' involved all the others involved will be returned.... no matter what was found about them.

[Glow]

According to news reports that I have read, many of the women left the compound with their children. Here is one that states some mothers left: http://www.star-telegram.com/804/story/565539.html I would hazard a guess that unless the CPS workers felt that the mother was an imminent risk to the child, they would be allowed to leave the compound with the children, at least until the initial interviewing was done and a decision was made.

At this point, only 18 girls have had been placed in foster care. A hearing is scheduled for later this week (maybe Monday) for an update on the case to the judge. As far as them not publicly announcing a legal basis, there is a gag order in place. You will not be hearing a whole lot of info from the authorities for now. According to this article, they did find enough evidence to feel as if the children were in imminent danger: http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/05/official-on-children-at-flds-ranch-it-is-not-for/

For one, I am glad it is being handled as it is. It seems as if the authorities are trying as hard as they can to respect the differences in the way of life that the children have been brought up in compared to how most of us and yet, comply with the law and protect these children. I hope that the precedent is being set that we WILL protect our children, at all costs and NOT let them be ABUSED and USED in the name of religion.

jmho !!

Hi barb, I wasnt sure anyone would answer me so thank you :blowkiss:

I appreciate your references. I agree with you that the right thing is being done here if we only think about these women and children in a "right now" kind of way.

My concerns aside from that are about what this means for all of us as to the direction this country is headed in.

Exactly how is it that an armored vehicle can enter w/o a legally authorized search warrant? Has that happened? :eek:

look at this:

More details of the siege of the sprawling FLDS ranch are coming out. There was first a standoff at the gate and then at the FLDS temple. Sheriff Gary Painter of neighboring Midland County was asked to break both standoffs with his SWAT and an armored vehicle.

“They had the temple surrounded with their vehicles,” the sheriff explained. “We rolled the armored personnel carrier up and asked to be admitted and they complied."

ok, that sounds real nice but have you ever seen a group of cops making an arrest? It is always tense and the testosterone is free flowing. This sounds a little :waitasec:

also at the same link:

Other accounts say the sheriff put the options more bluntly: “Either make way so we can search or risking being run over.” Despite such confrontations, the sheriff reported no violence. “There was resistance. But that’s okay. Resistance we can handle.”

This sounds more like what would really happen in live time.

Again I want to stress that I think the cops are the good guys and the children need intervention. I am just concerned about the "way" it is all happening. Historically when societies move away from democracy and civil liberties they begin with compromising the "rights" of those on the margin of society. The people that mainstream feels indignant against already.

here is the link for the above quotes.

http://www.abc4.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=540ffaeb-dc67-40dc-8757-4f0aac3388c1

[Glow]

Glow, I have the same questions. Not to sound flip or make a joke, but I hope they have a good OB/GYN with this group. And while I cheer the fact that someone is finally taking action against this group, I hope it doesn't backfire and hurt futher down the line when it ends up in court...if it ever does. I hope LE is going exactly by the book. These women and children could end up being sent back to their abusers and the one's that are viewed or merely rumored as having cooperated with LE will be punished severly.

Thanks for your response Suzi. Like I said above, I didnt expect anyone to respond so I appreciate that you did! I too am glad that this situation is being handled. I still have questions like why now? Obviously this has been a problem that was known...

but thats just me :crazy:

[SuziQ]

Athorites have found another 32 children. They and 9 adults have been taken to CPS headquarters. Other buses seen unknown how many are being taken. Ok, I have to ask, LE has been there for four days...where are all these kids being hidden? I am now feeling this is way beyond the 16 year old girl and her baby. Either LE had info about something major before this started or they found something major after going in.

http://www.myeldorado.net/

[Glow]

Technically they are going overboard to protect the women and children.

Hi mysteriew!

I would say it goes way more than technically. The government has an ideal situation in which to use force, violate rights as well as due process, and the American people are behind them because innocent children are involved. I am as much for saving children as they are but I cant pretend I don't see what is happening here.

Food for thought...once we "allow" our government to do this?

Who is next?

[SuziQ]

If it's an investigative process, I don't know that anyone's rights have been violated...yet. My hope is that everything is being done by the book and it doesn't hurt any possible prosecutions in the process. I can't even go there yet I'm so boggled with the latest numbers I've posted!

[sherri79]

Hi mysteriew!

I would say it goes way more than technically. The government has an ideal situation in which to use force, violate rights as well as due process, and the American people are behind them because innocent children are involved. I am as much for saving children as they are but I cant pretend I don't see what is happening here.

Food for thought...once we "allow" our government to do this?

Who is next? can we make suggestions? the government has always violated the rights of the people. the government must balance the rights of individual people against the rights of the public. the government can jail a witness to ensure they show for trial if they can show the interest of the public out weighs the interest of the individual. the government can force you to come to court and testify against your own child. if you refuse they can jail you for simply not speaking to them in court.

i agree we must always watch the government to make sure they do not cross the line. sometimes we fall down on the job. in this case i see what the government is doing as reasonable. these perverts have hidden behind the law while they break it right in front of us. they claim freedoms while they deprive their children of freedom. they sexually abuse young girls and say it is a god given right. for too long they have dared the government to stop them. for too long the government has allowed this abuse to continue.

in this case the anger i have for our government is based on the fact they have let these abuses continue too long.

[sherri79]

If it's an investigative process, I don't know that anyone's rights have been violated...yet. My hope is that everything is being done by the book and it doesn't hurt any possible prosecutions in the process. I can't even go there yet I'm so boggled with the latest numbers I've posted!suzi i want to take this chance to thank you for the work you have done on this thread. thank you for keeping us updated on this. :blowkiss:

[Glow]

These poor people are without their leader since he is in jail (deservedly) and it seems the substitute leadership wasn't able to hold things together. The group appears to be fragmenting rapidly now doesn't it? I bet most of these women are GLAD to be "taken" away.

I still feel that something's wrong here. I understand that will be completely buried under the "obvious" good however.

For now.

[barb0301]

Exactly how is it that an armored vehicle can enter w/o a legally authorized search warrant? Has that happened? :eek:



Hi Glow,

This is a story that I'm really interested in, and was happy to answer. I think these are all questions that need to be asked, and I hope LE is doing all they can to go "by the book". From news accounts that I have been reading, the calls from the 16 yo came in on Mar 29 / 30. LE and CPS then spent the next several days planning their moves and talking to a judge. They did get a search warrant / arrest warrant, etc.

http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/apr/06/teens-calls-led-to-raid-search/

"The search warrant instructed officers to look for marriage records or other evidence linking her to the man and the baby. The warrant authorized the seizure of computer drives, CDs, DVDs or photos." from the following link: http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/POLYGAMIST_RETREAT?SITE=TXSAE&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

After CPS talked to the children, they felt that they were in danger and needed to be removed. They do not need a warrant for emergency removal, but do need a hearing to be held very quickly, (I personally know this from my experience of being a foster parent in TX for over 15 years ), which will be done early this week. When they removed the children, I was glad to see that they allowed mothers to accompany them. At some point in the investigation, they felt it necessary to remove all children from the compound.

The fact that they found children in the temple, being hidden, really concerns me. Why were they being hidden?

Right now, it seems as if they are doing all possible to keep as many of the women and children together as they can. They have moved them to Ft. Stockton, where they can house them together, keep them somewhat out of the limelight, and conduct interviews in privacy. They can also provide the services that they feel are necessary such as medical, etc. For that, I am exceptionally grateful. These children are going through an extremely traumatic time and don't need the media spotlight on them in addition.

I am glad that no violence has broken out. This very easily could have turned into a very tragic event and lives could have been lost.

[SuziQ]

Interesting discussion going on at KSL.Com. My experience is people here love the govt and hate the FLDS to a fault. But you wouldn't know that by most of the posts. They feel the same way I'm beginning to feel....What on heavens earth is really going on here? I'm even beginning to wonder if the 16 year old really exists. Sure someone may have made that call and the situation may be true several times over there. But they might be looking for someone who doesn't exist. As some have posted at the below link "something stinks here".

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=3022473&comments=true

[Glow]

I agree with you Barb. I am in a funny place right now with this. By that I mean that I think if I were one of these women or children I would want to be "rescued". I also agree that LE is being as politically appropriate as they can be. This is no Waco incident (thank goodness) but like I said above...these are people who are not popular and exist on the fringe of our society. If their rights are being violated (even for their immediate relief) then who is next?

[Glow]

Thanks for the link Suzi!

[Glow]

After reading that link I was amazed at how many times people thought the government was "over reaching".

Interesting choice of words.

[philamena]

Hi mysteriew!

I would say it goes way more than technically. The government has an ideal situation in which to use force, violate rights as well as due process, and the American people are behind them because innocent children are involved. I am as much for saving children as they are but I cant pretend I don't see what is happening here.

Food for thought...once we "allow" our government to do this?

Who is next?

Hi Glow,
Are you saying that you'd rather due process be followed while children are left at the compound?

It's not like the govt said-hey let's go climb in a bunch of big ole armored vehicles and threaten people.

There's a reason so many children are being removed from the compound and I don't think we've heard the whole story. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear about possible sexual abuse.

[Truly]

Hi mysteriew!

I would say it goes way more than technically. The government has an ideal situation in which to use force, violate rights as well as due process, and the American people are behind them because innocent children are involved. I am as much for saving children as they are but I cant pretend I don't see what is happening here.

Food for thought...once we "allow" our government to do this?

Who is next?


What do you see happening here, Glow?

I see a cult with armed guards wearing night vision goggles preventing anyone from entering or exiting. I see aged pedophiles forcing young girls to break the laws of the State of Texas by forcing them to marry their own fathers and uncles before the girls have even reached the age of legal consent.

I see busloads of young girls. What has become of all the young boys? I have read that the boys are taken and dropped off in the desert so that the creepy old pedophiles can rape and impregnate all of the young girls without any young men around to interfere. I have read that they expel the young boys and only permit them to return when they have brought back their own 'first wife' from the 'outside world'. I read that the pedophile-in-chief can then expel the young man again and 'reassign' his new wife and her children to one of the creepy old pedophiles.

What exactly bothers you about this? Is it the fact that the Pedophile Cult calls itself a 'religion'?

I am all about civil liberties. But this is a case of pedophiles holding children in armed compounds for the purpose of using them as sexual slaves. Nothing could be done to help the kids until someone who was harmed came forth. Then the warrants were issued and the search proceeded according to law.

What precedent are you concerned about setting here? Did you object when Shawn Hornbeck was rescued from his sexually abusive captor? To me, it is similar. The kids cannot escape on their own, and they deserve to be rescued from pedophiles.

[philamena]

Truly,
Hey there....
Great post btw!:clap: :clap:

[SuziQ]

All I can say at this point, is tomorrow it's going to be very interesting in a courthouse in El Dorado. The story behind this is gonna be interesting to say the least.

[philamena]

I can't wait to hear what's really going on.

[Glow]

Hi Glow,
Are you saying that you'd rather due process be followed while children are left at the compound?

It's not like the govt said-hey let's go climb in a bunch of big ole armored vehicles and threaten people.

There's a reason so many children are being removed from the compound and I don't think we've heard the whole story. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear about possible sexual abuse.


I guess perhaps I am. What I mean is whatever is wrong at that compound was wrong the day before the 16 year old called. LE knew that there were things wrong...heck the whole town knew..that is one reason they are coming out in support with blankets and food and so on.

I would never condone children being abused, but if we move away from that hot button issue for just a moment, what does it mean when one phone call can bring an armored vehicle on to your property? What is that?

Let me state again that I dont disagree with rescuing the women and children who are involved. I am only trying to open a discussion about what role the government plays in this.

[barb0301]

I agree with you Barb. I am in a funny place right now with this. By that I mean that I think if I were one of these women or children I would want to be "rescued". I also agree that LE is being as politically appropriate as they can be. This is no Waco incident (thank goodness) but like I said above...these are people who are not popular and exist on the fringe of our society. If their rights are being violated (even for their immediate relief) then who is next?

I guess I'm still confused about why their rights might be being violated? Seems to me that all the right things are being done. Like you, I would want to be "rescued" too, and would want my children out of there.

I guess I'm always one of those that when in regards to children and their safety, I will always err on the side of caution. Having been a foster parent, I know what not doing so can mean. If all I am reading about how LE and CPS is handling this is true, then I give them all a huge round of :clap: for going above and beyond. Like I've said in a previous post, they did not have to allow the mothers to leave with the kids, but they did. It is being reported that the mothers left willingly. At this point, I have absolutely, no reason, none whatsoever, to question what CPS, LE and the judge have done. I think they are doing what should have been done when issues like this were reported in other states where FLDS has compounds. I think this is the first time it has been reported since YFZ ranch opened up in Eldorado, here in TX. :clap: :clap: :clap: to the authorities.

If authorities had not done this type of thing (although on a much smaller scale), for my kids several years ago, they may not be alive today. I may not have 13 wonderful grandchildren. The scale of this particular investigation makes it seem "different". It's not.

Again, jmho - it's not about me, not about you, it's all about the kids.

[SuziQ]

The positive thing about this situation is the ability for women and their kids to get out. Many mothers do want to leave the polygamist sects. But rarely can do so and take their kids. They lose in court too. They have no education, no job that pays enough to support their kids and the kids are usually awarded to their fathers. So I hope that moms take this opp to flee.

[barb0301]

I found this timeline:

A look at how events have transpired in Schleicher County in recent days.

March 29 - A 16-year-old girl calls authorities, saying she is calling from inside the YFZ Ranch and is the mother of an 8-month-old child whose father is 50. She calls again March 30.
March 31 - The Texas Department of Family and Protective Services receives a referral describing possible abuse at the YFZ Ranch, which is owned by the polygamist Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, based on the girl's call. The department's Child Protective Services agency begins investigating.
Concurrently, law enforcement working with CPS begins planning a raid on the FLDS compound to remove the girl and investigate whether additional abuse has occurred.
Thursday - At 5:30 p.m., 51st District Judge Barbara Walther, whose judicial district comprises Runnels, Schleicher and Tom Green counties and is based in San Angelo, signs a search-and-arrest warrant authorizing officials to search the ranch for the girl, for any documents tying her to her alleged husband, and for the man himself - identified as Dale Barlow. Officials enter the ranch shortly thereafter.
2:45 p.m. Friday - Two buses filled with women and children leave the ranch - the first two of several busloads to remove residents from the ranch.
4:55 p.m. Friday - Walther releases the warrant, which details the reasons for the raid. Shortly after, CPS and Texas Department of Public Safety officials announce they have removed 52 children from the ranch and have placed 18 in state custody.
3:30 p.m. Saturday - CPS announces it has removed an additional 131 women and children since the previous day for a total of 183 people, of whom 137 are children.
7 p.m. Saturday - The Standard-Times reports that ambulances have entered the ranch as authorities prepare to forcibly enter the compound's temple, to which FLDS followers had been denying access.
10:15 p.m. Saturday - Another busload of women and children is removed from the ranch, bringing the total number past 200.
Between 10:30 and 11:30 p.m. Saturday - Texas Rangers and other law enforcement agencies enter the temple; no violence or injuries occur.
Sunday afternoon - 219 women and children previously removed from the ranch are shuttled to Fort Concho National Historic Landmark in San Angelo. Searches by CPS and by law enforcement for children and possible evidence, respectively, are ongoing.

[barb0301]

I
I would never condone children being abused, but if we move away from that hot button issue for just a moment, what does it mean when one phone call can bring an armored vehicle on to your property? What is that?.

The armored vehicles were brought in when it became apparent that there may become a time when a standoff occurred over the LE entering the temple. At that point SWAT was brought in and things were very tense. There was no telling how it was going to go. By not allowing them to search the temple, they were in violation of a court ordered search warrant. It eventually ended peacefully, with the SWAT guys using the Jaws of Life to enter the Temple, but it could have been so much worse.

So the armored car came only when the occupants of the compound began to threaten non-compliance with the court ordered search warrant.

[Glow]

What do you see happening here, Glow?

I see a cult with armed guards wearing night vision goggles preventing anyone from entering or exiting. I see aged pedophiles forcing young girls to break the laws of the State of Texas by forcing them to marry their own fathers and uncles before the girls have even reached the age of legal consent.

I see busloads of young girls. What has become of all the young boys? I have read that the boys are taken and dropped off in the desert so that the creepy old pedophiles can rape and impregnate all of the young girls without any young men around to interfere. I have read that they expel the young boys and only permit them to return when they have brought back their own 'first wife' from the 'outside world'. I read that the pedophile-in-chief can then expel the young man again and 'reassign' his new wife and her children to one of the creepy old pedophiles.

What exactly bothers you about this? Is it the fact that the Pedophile Cult calls itself a 'religion'?

I am all about civil liberties. But this is a case of pedophiles holding children in armed compounds for the purpose of using them as sexual slaves. Nothing could be done to help the kids until someone who was harmed came forth. Then the warrants were issued and the search proceeded according to law.

What precedent are you concerned about setting here? Did you object when Shawn Hornbeck was rescued from his sexually abusive captor? To me, it is similar. The kids cannot escape on their own, and they deserve to be rescued from pedophiles.
What do you see happening here, Glow?

* What I see happening is people who are already generally frustrated finding a "focus" for their frustration



I see a cult with armed guards wearing night vision goggles preventing anyone from entering or exiting. I see aged pedophiles forcing young girls to break the laws of the State of Texas by forcing them to marry their own fathers and uncles before the girls have even reached the age of legal consent.

*I agree. The thing we have to remember is that even the mother of Jesus was 13 or 14 when she "conceived" and dont you and others celebrate that every December?


I see busloads of young girls. What has become of all the young boys? I have read that the boys are taken and dropped off in the desert so that the creepy old pedophiles can rape and impregnate all of the young girls without any young men around to interfere. I have read that they expel the young boys and only permit them to return when they have brought back their own 'first wife' from the 'outside world'. I read that the pedophile-in-chief can then expel the young man again and 'reassign' his new wife and her children to one of the creepy old pedophiles.

*Yes. I can say the same thing..."i have read" but where did I read it from? Did I read it from a non biased publication or news source?


What exactly bothers you about this?

*The fact that this can start on the fringe of society and then move inward to more and more traditional groups. The fact that we give "government the moral right to "think" for us as people. That is what concerns me.

Is it the fact that the Pedophile Cult calls itself a 'religion'?

*No


I am all about civil liberties. But this is a case of pedophiles holding children in armed compounds for the purpose of using them as sexual slaves. Nothing could be done to help the kids until someone who was harmed came forth. Then the warrants were issued and the search proceeded according to law.

*We dont know if the person who called was harmed. We assume that to be the case and we all at this point act on that asumption.


What precedent are you concerned about setting here?

*The fact that the government that we are supposedly in charge of can violate its own law to do what is emotionally deemed appropriate in the moment.

Did you object when Shawn Hornbeck was rescued from his sexually abusive captor?

*No I did not. There was enough evidence and the "people" were involved and this was a garden variety PERV, not a religious group with roots that stretch back thousands of years.

The kids cannot escape on their own, and they deserve to be rescued from pedophiles.

I agree with you completely on this statement.

[Glow]

The armored vehicles were brought in when it became apparent that there may become a time when a standoff occurred over the LE entering the temple. At that point SWAT was brought in and things were very tense. There was no telling how it was going to go. By not allowing them to search the temple, they were in violation of a court ordered search warrant. It eventually ended peacefully, with the SWAT guys using the Jaws of Life to enter the Temple, but it could have been so much worse.

So the armored car came only when the occupants of the compound began to threaten non-compliance with the court ordered search warrant.

I thought that the search warrant was for a named individual. So that would negate any right to enter a building. Especially a building deemed as "Holy" by its worshipers.

To illustrate my point...if an armored car was sent to crash through the doors of a Catholic church IE; (a holy building) people would be enraged. Why is it different if we dont agree with the people it is happening to?

[Truly]

I guess perhaps I am. What I mean is whatever is wrong at that compound was wrong the day before the 16 year old called. LE knew that there were things wrong...heck the whole town knew..that is one reason they are coming out in support with blankets and food and so on.

I would never condone children being abused, but if we move away from that hot button issue for just a moment, what does it mean when one phone call can bring an armored vehicle on to your property? What is that?

Let me state again that I dont disagree with rescuing the women and children who are involved. I am only trying to open a discussion about what role the government plays in this.

LE cannot legally act until after a crime is committed and a person who was harmed, ie, an actual victim of the crime, steps forward to file a complaint. CPS probably has a lot more leeway if they feel a child is in imminent peril. In this instance, the police knew they were dealing with armed and possibly desperate cult leaders...and they also had hundreds of child victims to protect. An armored vehicle and some comfortable buses seem like sensible vehicles to arrive with.

Glow, I am interested in hearing what role you think government plays in this? I think that child abuse is often pushed to the back burner on lawmakers agendas because children have no power or money and cannot vote. I think that crimes against children are swept under the rug more often than not because the perpetrators have big bucks and a powerful position in society. I am not terribly concerned about the implications of this situation, but you clearly are, so...please explain what it is that you are concerned about. Nobody wants a police state, I totally get that. But I am not understanding what you think LE should have done. Thanks.

[Truly]

What do you see happening here, Glow?

* What I see happening is people who are already generally frustrated finding a "focus" for their frustration



I see a cult with armed guards wearing night vision goggles preventing anyone from entering or exiting. I see aged pedophiles forcing young girls to break the laws of the State of Texas by forcing them to marry their own fathers and uncles before the girls have even reached the age of legal consent.

*I agree. The thing we have to remember is that even the mother of Jesus was 13 or 14 when she "conceived" and dont you and others celebrate that every December?


I see busloads of young girls. What has become of all the young boys? I have read that the boys are taken and dropped off in the desert so that the creepy old pedophiles can rape and impregnate all of the young girls without any young men around to interfere. I have read that they expel the young boys and only permit them to return when they have brought back their own 'first wife' from the 'outside world'. I read that the pedophile-in-chief can then expel the young man again and 'reassign' his new wife and her children to one of the creepy old pedophiles.

*Yes. I can say the same thing..."i have read" but where did I read it from? Did I read it from a non biased publication or news source?


What exactly bothers you about this?

*The fact that this can start on the fringe of society and then move inward to more and more traditional groups. The fact that we give "government the moral right to "think" for us as people. That is what concerns me.

Is it the fact that the Pedophile Cult calls itself a 'religion'?

*No


I am all about civil liberties. But this is a case of pedophiles holding children in armed compounds for the purpose of using them as sexual slaves. Nothing could be done to help the kids until someone who was harmed came forth. Then the warrants were issued and the search proceeded according to law.

*We dont know if the person who called was harmed. We assume that to be the case and we all at this point act on that asumption.


What precedent are you concerned about setting here?

*The fact that the government that we are supposedly in charge of can violate its own law to do what is emotionally deemed appropriate in the moment.

Did you object when Shawn Hornbeck was rescued from his sexually abusive captor?

*No I did not. There was enough evidence and the "people" were involved and this was a garden variety PERV, not a religious group with roots that stretch back thousands of years.

The kids cannot escape on their own, and they deserve to be rescued from pedophiles.

I agree with you completely on this statement.


Whoa. Um. So... you see a difference between religious pervs with roots stretching back thousands of years vs. 'garden variety' pervs?

And you think that the 'garden variety perverts' are worse than the 'religious perverts who have been assaulting kids for thousands of years'? Holy chit. I am at a loss for words.

[barb0301]

I thought that the search warrant was for a named individual. So that would negate any right to enter a building. Especially a building deemed as "Holy" by its worshipers.

To illustrate my point...if an armored car was sent to crash through the doors of a Catholic church IE; (a holy building) people would be enraged. Why is it different if we dont agree with the people it is happening to?

The search warrant was for the girl, the man, and any and all documents pertaining to the marriage and child. The judge also allowed CPS workers to go into the compound to talk to the occupants. CPS workers do not need a judge to do this - they need a citizen complaint, which they had already. The judge arranged LE protection and coordination.

When a complaint comes in to CPS that they deem a child is in imminent danger, they must make contact with that child to determine what is going on. They HAD to go into the compound to contact her. At the same time, they have leeway to talk to her family and friends to see how she is, how she has been treated, etc. Same as in any other child abuse investigation. As they begin their investigation "something" happened that led them to believe that none of the children were safe at the compound, and the judge said for all of them to be removed in order for the interviews to be continued away from the compound. Again - nothing any different from any other child abuse case.

So now, we have LE looking for the evidence cited in the search warrant, and it can't be found. Leaders refuse to allow them access to the temple. LE brings in equipment, including medical, in case something drastic happens, and heavy equipment to break down the doors of the temple if necessary. Again, nothing "illegal" - they have a legal search warrant for the entire compound, including the temple, and are now being refused entry. Same thing would happen if parishioners of my Methodist Church refused LE access to it and they had a search warrant. Especially if the rest of the scenario was the same.

I don't see this as any different than any other crime scene. It is what it is. A possible (probable), crime scene. It just happens to be at a large religious site. A crime perpetrated on "religious" property is still a crime. And the investigatiion into that crime is going to happen the same way any other crime is investigated.

They can't hide behind their religion. Nor could I, nor could you, nor anyone else here.

[barb0301]

I thought that the search warrant was for a named individual. So that would negate any right to enter a building. .


The "ARREST warrant" was for a named individual.
The "SEARCH warrant" was for the entire compound, includng all buildings, temple included.

[Pepper]

Did you object when Shawn Hornbeck was rescued from his sexually abusive captor?

*No I did not. There was enough evidence and the "people" were involved and this was a garden variety PERV, not a religious group with roots that stretch back thousands of years.
.

I disagree with the part I have bolded. This group does not have roots that stretch back thousands of years. The mainstream Mormon religion was founded in 1820. This fundamentalist cult broke off from the LDS in 1890. There is much controversy over whether or not Mormons are Christian due to their belief in polytheism. Therefore their roots only go back less than 200 years.

[Truly]

I disagree with the part I have bolded. This group does not have roots that stretch back thousands of years. The mainstream Mormon religion was founded in 1820. This fundamentalist cult broke off from the LDS in 1890. There is much controversy over whether or not Mormons are Christian due to their belief in polytheism. Therefore their roots only go back less than 200 years.

Yes, pepper, as i understand it, the regular mormons only gave up the practice of child sexual assault in 1890 as a condition for Utah to be accepted as a State. This offshoot morman cult has continued it since 1890!:eek: A single instance of child sexual assault is enough to demand police and CPS. These sick freaks have been hiding out in their armed compounds abusing kids for far too long. If the cult went by any other name, I would feel the same way. They are not permitted to break the law and violate children just because they call themselves a 'religion'. What a bunch of sick perverts. I hope they prosecute all of these men to the fullest.

I am actually concerned about which girls may have met a boy on 'the outside', and ended up trapped in sexual slavery in the armed compound. Maybe we'll find some of our missing teenage girls when this whole thing shakes out.

[mysteriew]

The bottom line is, CPS has the legal responsibility and authority to investigate any allegation of child abuse. And they received two calls from a child who said she was being abused.

As citizens, we are all bound by the search warrant. If presented with a search warrant, we must allow our persons and property to be searched. If we do not allow it, it will be searched by force. In other words, it was the FLDS refusing to allow the search that caused the show of force. All that is needed for obtaining a search warrant is probable cause- in this case it would be the child's two calls to the CPS making allegations of abuse. The search is for any evidence of the alleged crime.

It isn't a matter of Catholic vs. FLDS, if I am not mistaken there were a lot of search warrants served on the Catholic Churches during the investigation of child sexual abuses in the not too distant past. And the Catholic Churches honored those search warrants, even if they did protest.

But the comparisons of the FLDS and the Catholic Church is apt. Both are churches and both were plagued with allegations of child sexual abuse. But in the Catholic Church the abuse wasn't considered a divine right or a matter of doctorine. Even the Catholic Church has apoligised for their failure to protect their congregation and have made some amends. Perhaps they have not done all they could or should, but they did make some attempt. The FLDS locked their doors and tried to claim a divine right to be exempt from the search warrant.

[trixie]

Everybody knew they were there. I think it's interesting that all it took to get them out of there was one (or 2) phone call from a 16 year old girl. So if a 16 year old girl from every cult called authorities eventually all the cults would be eliminated? I don't think that is a bad thing. Women and children HAVE no civil liberties in those compounds. I wonder how many women and teen girls fell to their knees in prayers of gratitude when all this started happening? Most, I bet.

[Linda7NJ]

nevermind

[Floh]

Everybody knew they were there. I think it's interesting that all it took to get them out of there was one (or 2) phone call from a 16 year old girl. So if a 16 year old girl from every cult called authorities eventually all the cults would be eliminated? I don't think that is a bad thing. Women and children HAVE no civil liberties in those compounds. I wonder how many women and teen girls fell to their knees in prayers of gratitude when all this started happening? Most, I bet.

None, I bet. they are so insulated from the real world and so brainwashed they probably believe armageddon has arrived and everything they have been told about outsiders is true. :(

so any prayers now are for their good selves to return home. this is what i believe.

[SuziQ]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5677683.html

(snip)
"They huddled together. It was very obvious they were scared. They were non-responsive. They looked like deer caught in the headlights," said church leader Helen Pfluger, 59.
She estimates she spent at least 30 hours with the women and children over the weekend but said communications never rose above the most basic level.
"I felt like I was from Mars, that I was alien to them. There was not one thing we had alike, except that we were female and had children," she said.
Pfluger said the children dressed in 19th-century garb, did not know what crayons or breakfast cereal were, and that they were not accustomed to some of the food they were offered.
"Our food made some of the children sick. They are used to drinking raw milk and they asked for it," she said.
"When they had clothing needs, it was impossible to give them what they needed. Where are you going to find a long-sleeve, high-neck, loose-waist, long dress for a 3-year old girl?" she asked.
On Sunday, they were taken in buses 40 miles north to San Angelo's Fort Concho. The historic site has facilities to rent for social and business gatherings, and it also has a state office building that a tour guide said includes a child welfare office.

[Linda7NJ]

The children didn't know what CRAYONS WERE! :eek:

I know it may sound like a silly little thing, but that made me cry.

[Floh]

The children didn't know what CRAYONS WERE! :eek:

I know it may sound like a silly little thing, but that made me cry.

It's a great example of how insulated they are. :(

[believe09]

I would think that for the short term, it is more important to speak with these folks in a manner that they are accustomed to, and to obtain for them the things that they need, like if they don't have crayons, perhaps they are familiar with chalk and slates...I am not being flip, just using an example. I don't recall it being against FLDS beliefs to play, but I do not know. The adult women should be able to communicate/translate the needs of the children with an idea of common goods in a non compound society...like my kids drink raw milk and have never had processed food so please do not give them fruit loops...am I making sense?

And I think that they should bring in some folks from LDS who may be able to help them with a little more understanding....

[Linda7NJ]

I would think that for the short term, it is more important to speak with these folks in a manner that they are accustomed to, and to obtain for them the things that they need, like if they don't have crayons, perhaps they are familiar with chalk and slates...I am not being flip, just using an example. I don't recall it being against FLDS beliefs to play, but I do not know. The adult women should be able to communicate/translate the needs of the children with an idea of common goods in a non compound society...like my kids drink raw milk and have never had processed food so please do not give them fruit loops...am I making sense?

And I think that they should bring in some folks from LDS who may be able to help them with a little more understanding....

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_8835442 (http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_8835442)

People who have left sect go to Texas to help

They can explain the group's culture and comfort displaced women and children

By Brooke Adams
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 04/07/2008 12:35:48 AM MDT


ELDORADO, Texas - Carolyn Jessop, once married to the man who oversees the FLDS church's besieged ranch, arrived Sunday in west Texas with two daughters she hoped to reunite with their half siblings.

Jessop, whose memoir Escape detailed her experiences in and departure from the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, visited the Schleicher County Civic Center Sunday to explain the group's culture to authorities working with women and children taken from the YFZ Ranch this weekend.

Also in Texas: Elissa Wall, the young woman whose testimony sent sect leader Warren S. Jeffs to prison in Utah on convictions for rape as an accomplice, and Shannon Price of the Utah-based Diversity Foundation, which helps teens leaving the sect.

Jessop said that she thought she had seen one of her four stepdaughters on a school bus as it left Eldorado earlier in the day. "It would be monumental if I could see those girls after five years," she said.

Born and raised in the faith, Jessop became the fourth wife of Merrill Jessop when she was 18; he was 50. They had eight children together in Utah before she left him in 2003.

Betty, Jessop's oldest daughter, returned to the sect after she turned 18. Jessop said Betty, whom she speaks with regularly, does not live at the ranch. Merrill Jessop has been in charge of the YFZ Ranch for several years.

****more at link

[barb0301]

I would think that for the short term, it is more important to speak with these folks in a manner that they are accustomed to, and to obtain for them the things that they need, like if they don't have crayons, perhaps they are familiar with chalk and slates...I am not being flip, just using an example. I don't recall it being against FLDS beliefs to play, but I do not know. The adult women should be able to communicate/translate the needs of the children with an idea of common goods in a non compound society...like my kids drink raw milk and have never had processed food so please do not give them fruit loops...am I making sense?

And I think that they should bring in some folks from LDS who may be able to help them with a little more understanding....

I agree with you believe....somehow, they need to find a way to make this transition more comfortab