Do these bruises look familiar?

[DebC]

Background:
I locked myself out of my house the other night. The lock is one of those door nob on either side of the door types. The lock is released from the inside by twisting the nob, but on the outside you need a key. The trick used to be to put my hand through the letter box, hook the curtain on the inside of the door round the inside nob and pull. The handle would turn and the lock would release. Unfortunately, I had changed the curtain and the new one wouldn't do it - not enough friction. I tried and tried for about an hour, then gave up and got a locksmith. The metal letter box is just big enough to get my arm through, but not really big enough to move it about.

The result, 24 hours later, is in the pictures. Today, nearly 48 hours later, the bruising has turned almost black.

Does the size and shape seem familiar? In the first picture you can also see a green bruise which I got a couple of weeks ago from knocking into something. Completely different size. The bruising on Darlie's hands is the same as on my arms.

I always thouught her bruises were self-inflicted. Now I know for sure.

[hipmamajen]

It won't let me see the pictures. :(

[dottierainbow]

Won't let me neither. Says I don't have permission to access.

[tempusfugit]

Background:
I locked myself out of my house the other night. The lock is one of those door nob on either side of the door types. The lock is released from the inside by twisting the nob, but on the outside you need a key. The trick used to be to put my hand through the letter box, hook the curtain on the inside of the door round the inside nob and pull. The handle would turn and the lock would release. Unfortunately, I had changed the curtain and the new one wouldn't do it - not enough friction. I tried and tried for about an hour, then gave up and got a locksmith. The metal letter box is just big enough to get my arm through, but not really big enough to move it about.

The result, 24 hours later, is in the pictures. Today, nearly 48 hours later, the bruising has turned almost black.

Does the size and shape seem familiar? In the first picture you can also see a green bruise which I got a couple of weeks ago from knocking into something. Completely different size. The bruising on Darlie's hands is the same as on my arms.

I always thouught her bruises were self-inflicted. Now I know for sure.

Wouldn't let see the pictures! I really want to see to see them:(
I have always thought Darlie injuries were self inflicted. I think she's right where she belongs!!

[j2mirish]

me either

[tempusfugit]

No, I can't see that either. I can when I preview the post though. I'll get on to admin and get some help.

I'll keep checking back.

[whitywendy]

Oh WOW!!!!! You need to take some more pic's after a week or two to show us how they look. I wonder if the dark coloring of Darlie's depends on the actually person. I think we all bruise differently.

[IrishMist]

I could see them, and they sure do look similar. Thanks for posting this, Deb.

And sorry about your bruises- looks like it hurts!! :eek:

[White Rain]

OUCH!!!!
Looks similar to me as well.

[StellaTraver]

Thank you for posting the pictures. I initially believed the bruising was self-inflicted but then wondered if Darin had been responsible. Now I am back to the original theory. Doesn't look to me that this would be that hard to accomplish, (though I am very sorry for any discomfort you may be experiencing). DO take pictures of the bruising as it further develops.

[curious1]

Wow! Good observation. Now if we just had the video of you on the porch bending over with your hand through the mail slot trying to fish for the curtain we might be able to make a better determination. :p

[Jeana (DP)]

I don't think they match up. Darlie's had some sort of pattern to them, like corduroy materal.

[weasel]

Sorry you're injured....but the bruises do look similar. Just from your story, it doesn't seem to me like it was too difficult to bruise your arms like that. What I mean is, if you caused that much bruising trying to unlock your door, just imagine what it took for Darlie to do that to her arms. I think she slammed them in the door or something.

[weasel]

Forgot to mention .... did anyone notice the "poor, pitiful me" look on her face in the bruises pictures? What a psycho.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

Did the house on Eagle Dr have a mail slot if not what could she have wedged her arms into to do the amount of damage seen in the photos?
If she did it after the fact (the murders) could she really have done it in the hospital without being seen or messing up her IV'S or stitches?
The prosecution said the scene was staged so the bruising would also be staged. Witnesses at the hospital saw the bruises and the time line for bruises to appear is correct.
There is a few photos of me on MySpace 5 days after a horseback riding accident, I look pretty rough and the bruises were starting to really show up, Day 7 I looked like I'd gone a few rounds with Tyson (and lost).
The bruises Darlie had are real, the time for them to be made would have been at the time of the murders and not after. Call it more staging if you want but they more likely than not occured at the time of the murders.
myspace.girattlesnakejane

[DebC]

Sorry I've taken so long to post update pictures - probs at work.
The pics are to demonstrate the length of bruising up my arm.
Now take a look at Darlie's bruising on her left arm.
http://www.fordarlieroutier.org/Evidence/index.html
Defence Exhibit 84, State Exhibit 52-M and 52-N.
How do you thing she got a bruise of that LENGTH on the inside of her arm? Not from a fist, that's for sure. She either slammed a door or a drawer on her arm.
She always was her own worst enemy. Here she obviously went with her mantra "bigger is better". That's what I think anyway.

[DebC]

Forgot to mention .... did anyone notice the "poor, pitiful me" look on her face in the bruises pictures? What a psycho.

Yes, I did. Sickening isn't it?

[DebC]

The bruises Darlie had are real, the time for them to be made would have been at the time of the murders and not after. Call it more staging if you want but they more likely than not occured at the time of the murders.

She could have started on the bruising and the itty bitty cuts to her hands any time after Darin went to bed. I think that the massive bruise to the underside of her right arm was blood from the damaged tissues in the big arm stab seeping down to its lowest level whilst she was laying in the hospital bed.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

How does anyone self-inflict those kinds of bruises and not injure the elbow joint too? Like slamming in a drawer or door would cause.The lines from the contact area would be visable too, like your photos show the area where the mail slot and your arm had the most pressure applied. Impacting a limb in a drawer or door would cause damage, at least swelling ,to the joint from the quick extreme force applied to the limb. The bruises you experienced are only similar in the fact that they are on your arms. They are not as severe looking nor do they spread uninterrupted from your wrist to under your arm pit The mail slot has four sides to it and your movements back and forth trying to retrieve the curtain rod made you come into contact with all four sides at different points of contact on your arm.The most pressure applied points show up as a red spot in your initial pics. The bruises I got on horseback didn't even look as bad as Darlie's and believe me a horse slamming you into apple trees at full run causes damage and a lot of swelling. I had direct force contact bruising. If a door or drawer was used it wasn't slammed it would have to be steady pressure applied to the length of the arm and could have been done by someone inserting their arm into a door between the frame then held there for some time. Darlie's bruises IMO are pressure applied bruises. HMMM..... We all know they fought that night, if Darin was trying to retreat to another room and Darlie put her arm up trying to prevent the door from being closed then her arm would be caught between the door frame and the door. Both arms are bruised although and as DP stated some type of pattern is on them as well. I can also think of one other door that could apply steady pressure- a garage door with the child safety disabled or an old one without that feature. Both arms would have to be done too. From my understanding after the murders and her release from the hospital she wasn't left alone at her home or anywhere else. Another IMO the bruises were inflicted shortly before or at the time of the murders.
I'm trying to be objective here so I have to look at all possible scenarios I have never been satisfied that the whole truth guilt or innocence has been answered.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

Post was turning into a book so I left this out. Blood thinners will make any bruise appear much worse. My mom takes Coumidin and a simple bang of her hand against the countertop looked like she had been boxing without gloves on. Was Darlie given any medications in the hospital that have a blood thinning effect?

[whitywendy]

Post was turning into a book so I left this out. Blood thinners will make any bruise appear much worse. My mom takes Coumidin and a simple bang of her hand against the countertop looked like she had been boxing without gloves on. Was Darlie given any medications in the hospital that have a blood thinning effect?

She could also bruise easy. Not everyone bruises the same. I do not take blood thinners - never have and I bruise easier than fruit. I can brush up against something and it will turn a deep purple and stay that color for quite sometime. So I think it depends on the person.

I like your theory about Darin trying to leave the room and close the door with Darlie placing her arm in and trying to prevent it. Never thought of that one.

Question: How come all of the nurses from the Emergency Room that night testified that they DID NOT see any bruises?

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

I can think of several reasons.
Just like everyone and I mean everyone they all lied.
The photos taken of Darlie in the hospital show the bruises appearing. Are these the same nurses who took care of her in her room or the ER nurses.
A bruise requires some time to develop. If ER nurses then no time for them to show up.
She may have been released before they turned up fully or the nurses testimony was "contaminated" by the prosecution.
They put them a private room at the courthouse and let them hear what others were going to testify to beforehand. On the days of witness testimony no one who is going to testify is allowed to hear what others are testifing to they are not allowed in the courtroom, this is to avoid witness contamination. Put them all in the same room and let them hear beforehand what others are going to say should be considered witness contamination
Ever heard of mob mentality. No one likes to be or desires to be the one person who goes against common beliefs or the crowd. It stigmatizes the person as defending a "baby killer".
Look at your own quote by George Bishop Berkley why does he refer to the truth as a game? Truth is not a game it stands alone and strong without support or aid from anything else. How many people do you know that have that kind of strength or valor. That is why he calls it a game.
Truthfully speaking IMO opinion not any side as been 100% honest in this case.
Not Darlie, not Darin, not the police, not the prosecution and not the defense either- sadly it is boys first and Justice second who have paid the cost for the lies and deceit surrounding this whole case.
I don't think she will ever win a new trial on appeal and I also believe she will be executed.

Reason for this belief.
Remember that statue of a blind woman holding a set of scales.
Appeals are hard to win, it must be proven that more than just a mere pebbles weight of "wrong" was done. In other words a big rock has to swing that scale the other way. Each and every mistake, lie, etc. made by everyone involved equals a big rock but the appeals process requires proof of a big rock even though the combined weight of a lot of pebbles would sway the scales the same amount. The pebbles don't really count unless they are all melded together and since every side threw pebbles into the scale a cooperative effort to deny justice cannot be proven. It is just my opinion but this kind of case that scares the pants off me. If it happened once it could happen again and who knows it might be me or someone else I know who ends up paying the cost.

I'm not computer literate enough to post polls and all but I wonder how many people would WANT a new trial. The obvious answer to me should be a 100% agreement. Cost and time should not be a factor in their decision.If Darlie did it then a new trial would prove it and supporters would not have a legit claim of unfair, look at this and look at that. If innocent then the mistakes claimed to have been made the 1st time could also be avoided.
Anyone voting anything less than a new trial is scared, remember no one has anything to lose here either cause the trial was only for one child and she could be arrested and tried if they lost the first trial. That was the plan the prosecution had to begin with.
If Darlie lost a new trial a second time around she still gets the death penalty and the injustices she claims have been done to her would finally be put to rest.

[Mary456]

If she did it after the fact (the murders) could she really have done it in the hospital without being seen or messing up her IV'S or stitches?

I doubt she did it in the hospital. More likely she inflicted them after being released, probably on June 8th. The stitches were on the outside of her forearm, so they wouldn't necessarily have been disturbed.

Witnesses at the hospital saw the bruises and the time line for bruises to appear is correct.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. There was no bruising in the hospital, not even redness on her right arm. The only people who said she had bruises were members of her family, and they're not known for their truthfulness.

The bruises Darlie had are real, the time for them to be made would have been at the time of the murders and not after.

Here's the problem with your timeline: The blunt trauma needed to produce the bruises seen on June 10th would have shown up as redness and swelling in the hospital if she had been beaten on June 6th. You don't sustain blunt trauma like that & see absolutely no sign of it for 2 1/2 days. Darlie's right arm was checked by nurses and doctors every day, and they saw nothing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you used to baby sit for Darlie?

[Mary456]

Was Darlie given any medications in the hospital that have a blood thinning effect?

No. Darlie had lost some blood; they sure wouldn't want to thin it!

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

I doubt she did it in the hospital. More likely she inflicted them after being released, probably on June 8th. The stitches were on the outside of her forearm, so they wouldn't necessarily have been disturbed.

You are giving too little time for the bruises to develop and look as bad as they did.


Tsk, tsk, tsk. There was no bruising in the hospital, not even redness on her right arm. The only people who said she had bruises were members of her family, and they're not known for their truthfulness.

On truthfulness we agree but photos taken of her in her hospital bed show bruising under her elbow and upper arms. The camera doesn't have an opinion or lie.

Here's the problem with your timeline: The blunt trauma needed to produce the bruises seen on June 10th wouldown as she claims. Pustain if they were held ssd have shown up as redness and swelling in the hospital if she had been beaten on June 6th. You don't sustain blunt trauma like that & see absolutely no sign of it for 2 1/2 days. Darlie's right arm was checked by nurses and doctors every day, and they saw nothing.

I am surmising it wasn't blunt trauma -steady pressure enough to bruise but not break the skin. If it was blunt trauma evidence of whatever she used door drawer etc., SLAMMING MARKS would be present in a linear pattern. More like a pinching type of bruise, hard enough like my older sister used to do to me when we were kids. It left a slight minor red spot which went away quickly but then the bruise would show up later, it seemed the worse the bruise was the longer it took to show up as the blood had to rise to the surface of the skin from deep inside the muscle instead of when she barely got a hold on me and pinched really hard. as the damage done to the muscle was not as deep.Those showed up quickly.

Life example: My niece was a biter as a toddler tooth marks were obvious therefore her teeth left an impression on the skin before the bruise showed up a day or two later. The worse the bite the deeper the skin imperfections were. Those look pretty bad as far as bruises go therefore some impression of what was used door, drawer, etc. would also be present along with the bruise. If she is staging a scene she needs to simulate long steady pressure to achieve that kind of damage and it also goes along with being pinned down - her story right.
ITS JMO but I would have a hard time self inflicting wounds like she had. That why I surmised an electric garage door closing on it. Let the garage door apply the pressure all you have to do is withstand the pain and hit the remote when the pain became too great.
The regular door, I have another theory associated with it as well but before I start another long drawn out post, I am a woman of many words I won't deny, must wait till after I eat something . I'll post it tonight if I have time if not tonight then tomorrow.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you used to baby sit for Darlie?


Yes you are correct, I have known Darlie Kee, Denny Stahl, Darlie Lynn (as we called her back then) Dana, and Danielle since July of 1978 nearly 30 years. She also babysat for me as well.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

Mary don't know why it posted this way but to anyone else this could be very confusing. Didn't mean to do it and when I saw it I'd tried to edit responses in bold print but it didn't take. I think it won't let me cause you are the original poster. Feel free to make my responses to your questions clear if you can edit it. I will admit I am held hostage on this computer with no kids at home to help me I am modern electronically hostage, Maybe I should use the oven and not the microwave for supper tonight.

[Mary456]

I will admit I am held hostage on this computer with no kids at home to help me I am modern electronically hostage, Maybe I should use the oven and not the microwave for supper tonight.

Lol, it took me forever to get the hang of quotes, and I still screw up regularly.

You are giving too little time for the bruises to develop and look as bad as they did.

It's not the color of the bruises on June 10th. That's not the point. It's the absence of any redness or swelling on the inner right arm for the 2 1/2 days she was hospitalized. Darlie was using her right arm & lying on it in bed, never once complaining of soreness or discomfort. Of course, if you contend that 7 different nurses and 2 doctors all lied under oath, then nothing I say will change your mind.

On truthfulness we agree but photos taken of her in her hospital bed show bruising under her elbow and upper arms. The camera doesn't have an opinion or lie.

The camera doesn't lie, but those photos (on her website and in MTJD) have been altered or, shall we say, artistically enhanced? That blue-purple bruise on her left wrist is bogus. She had an arterial line in the wrist, and the bruise was already turning yellow-green on June 10th, as per Hollon's and Cotner's testimony.

I am surmising it wasn't blunt trauma

So you're saying that Darlie's own witness, Dr. DiMaio, was wrong?

ITS JMO but I would have a hard time self inflicting wounds like she had.

It's amazing what you can do to yourself when you know you're in deep doo-doo. Darlie was well aware that her injuries didn't fit her story(ies), so she employed a little creative license :)

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

I'm not an expert and her expert witness calls it blunt trauma not going to waste time arguing terms. To me blunt trauma was when Missy my brother-in-laws horse ran me into an apple orchard and tried to remove numerous body parts, legs hips, arms my face with every tree she could collide me into. Yes it hurt a lot and relatives told me not to look in a mirror.
Don't know what kind of trauma that would be called but it was traumatic that is for certain.
The bruising and other things that have come to light after the trial when people felt it necessary to finally tell some of the truth.

We know the couple fought that night, as to who asked who for a separation is not important either. What if.......
People often say or do irrational things in the heat of the moment, a lot of crimes are done in the heat of the moment and each persons anger management ability determines how quickly they cool down after a "heated argument". Maybe Darlie and Darin fought about who would "get" the kids during this separation. Knowing full well that whoever gets them will most likely end up with custody should a divorce become a reality I can see Darlie or Darin each not wanting the other to have the kids- it happens alot it is a power play and kids are caught in the middle it fact it happens too much in divorces IMO. Each one of them brings up dirt on the other one to gain control or power over the other one. They agree to disagree and discuss this later after they cool down.Darin doesn't cool down and
Darin knows Darlie has him by the balls he thinks about what he can do besides submit to her demands.
This is when his plan comes together.
I'm sure an argument like this could upset the kids and I'm sure the boys were aware of their parents fight. The parents each sleep in different rooms to guarantee one of them doesn't flee in the middle of the night with all the kids the kids are divided up between the two parents sleeping arrangements.
This is what perplexes me still because each parent still could have done this crime. Darin thinks oh yeah I'll show you, you won't get the kids or ruin my business or put me in jail whatever it is he fears she will do, cause I'm going to call my Robbers-R-Us buddy and asks how much to have Darlie injured only and the boys killed, what good is revenge and hurting her if she isn't around to suffer for it. Do not steal one item from the home police cannot find any evidence this was a break in as she will surely report it as one and believe it to be true herself. She isn't going to get the kids in fact I want to make sure she gets the chair for this, The boys have both heard and witnessed this fight. overhearing her "dirt" ( the jag scam maybe or something else she might on him) and witnessing his door holding or even something else that could be considered abusive. That is why he must eliminate them as possible witnesses they could tell the police about the fight and he can't afford to be a suspect if only Darlie is murdered or injured and he doesn't want her dead he wants her to suffer.
It must be tonight I can't put up with another day of her **** or give her the chance to screw me over in other words I'm gonna get you, was responded with not if I get you first. The robber may or may not have been very willing to agree to kill the boys. Darin could have used the pressure tactic on the robber telling him he has been made by Darlie revealing in front of them (the boys) your part in whatever scam or dirt Darlie has on him.
In all marriages someone is the spender and the other is the saver. Knowing Darlie's spending habits Darin has been stashing cash and hiding it from Darlie. He didn't plan on using it for anything more than keeping his business afloat or paying the bills but now he is happy he has it and that she is unaware of it. He gets his cash ready to pay for the hit he doesn't want to leave a possible clue for the police later like contact with this individual after the crime he knows he will be under close watch and even the robber knows this he agrees because he is getting cash now not later when normally people agree to pay from the insurance proceeds he also doesn't take anything from the house even though the temptation like her jewelry is there the cash in hand is worth more than the work involved in fencing the stuff or leaving a connection clue that would tie him to the crime. This is not clear to me as both the following might be true. If the robber refused to do the boys despite Darin's scare tactics Darin could have done them himself and prestaged some of the crime scene evidence before the robber even arrived. Things that don't leave a time line like cutting the screen. The robber maybe didn't trust Darin enough to go alone into the house so he brought a buddy because he actually refused to kill the kids and he knows they will be dead upon his arrival after all Darlie didn't mention his name maybe she doesn't know it but the boys know their daddy and they could tie Darin to his scam so Darin knows he must eliminate them. If the plan fails the robber buddy can testify we didn't do the kids they were DOA when we got there. Problem 1 the youngest one isn't dead and now they have to finish the job Darin started. Darlie could have been rendered unconcious by inhalation drugs like amyl nitrate or a Taser this is what keeps her asleep during the attack of the boys. Because 2 people are sensed by her even though only one is seen by her she reports they not him in her account of the crime. Darin could have been the second person but would have had to dispose of his bloody clothes by giving them to the robber(s). Could the sock been dropped in a quick getaway by the robber(s) leaving. Someone had to be the wheel man here . The black car seen and reported by neighbors had more than 1 occupant. This may not be exactly as it occurred but is it close enough to be fine tuned to fit the evidence as we know it? Could the account Darlie gave be close to the truth if Darin hired some help?

I also have a similar motive for Darlie close to what the police uncovered for Darlie only she doesn't need hired help and her motive was to hurt Darin because she feared he could get the kids and she wasn't going to let that happen. Her suicide/ make it look like a murder, and since Darin is the only adult left in the house who do you think will be blamed for it, attempt failed as she lay on the couch not dying quick enough from blood loss despite arguments to the contrary other people besides the family saw the blood on the sofa.

Please if I'm wrong about Darin blow it out of the water like Bugle Boy jean wearing Crack Heads lol lol. This is in reference to any poster but another theory I also rattled around in this old head. Weren't they midgets too?
If you think it is possible but I've left something out see if your ideas can tie in the evidence I left out or ignored.

[DebC]

You forgot to mention that Damon and Devon were "daddy's boys". If he didn't want Darlie to have them, it's unlikely he would resort to having them murdered by strangers a couple of hours later.

Exactly when did he arrange all this? Before or after his fight with Darlie?

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

:mad:You forgot to mention that Damon and Devon were "daddy's boys". If he didn't want Darlie to have them, it's unlikely he would resort to having them murdered by strangers a couple of hours later.

Exactly when did he arrange all this? Before or after his fight with Darlie?

Why:
By having those two killed because they either knew enough about the dirt (the jag or worse) that would ruin him in his business and prevent him from having custody anyway if interviewed by CPS or police. He feared what Darlie could do to him thru them. He had resigned himself that he was going to lose them anyway. Funny you should use the expression Daddy's Boys as the most used phrase not in reference to them but in general for sons I've heard is Mama's Boys.

I have 2 sons too 20 months apart. My boys at ages 5 and 7 were close to their dad but still closer to me. The age where they separate themselves more from Mama and begin to identify more with Daddy had not been reached yet. I think this occurs closer to puberty. A son will always be protective of their mother (their entire life) and if they had witnessed some kind of physical violence they would rally around Darlie despite their closeness to Darin.Remember I said this plan was irrational and made in a time when rage and hate at Darlie was stronger than his bond with them. I could cop out an explanation of who the heck knows what goes on in a mans head but the answer is another man. If he knew he would not as a child put up with whatever this dirty little secret is in regards to his mother how could he expect his own sons to do so. No they posed too big a risk for him. Why would Darlie give up the comfort of a bed for the couch (forget the excuses she gave) because she had to keep her witnesses away from him so he couldn't work on them and turn them against her.
They both engaged in some bizarre behavior the silly string party and the tatoos.
If my theory is correct then the tatoos are Darin's way of permantly "possessing" the boys something he couldn't achieve during their lifetime but that he really preferred over killing them.
The Party was Darlie's way of continuing to nurture them and spoil them and make them and herself the center of attention, they same type of behavior she engaged in during their lifetime.
The mind of the killer knows they did it and will leave behind clues in the behavior of that person. In order to kill them the killer would have to view them more as objects or possesions than true parental love. Once the ties had been cut off in their mind either when they decided to kill or after they actually did it the mind would still know they did it. Behavior towards the relationship father/son or mother/son would change. Could Darlie be so cunning as to know this and continue to exhibit the same kind of needs to nurture and make a dramatic scene in regards to her sons after she knew she did it. It seems like to me anyway that she would withdraw from the relationship not try and continue it into the grave. The old movie star "I just want to be left alone" attitude would have gained her far more sympathy and more attention than the way she actually behaved. If her motivations were for attention for herself would she had made the event even more tragic for herself in order to meet those very needs for attention. Fainting or breaking down into uncontrollable fits of grief especially in public like at the party and the trial. Her lack of copious tears at those times doesn't fit in with someone trying to fool us all and gain attention for herself too . Every action a human being makes in life is to fufill a need. She reached out at the funeral and after to others including me, trying to comfort them as well. Her behavior while bizarre just doesn't seem to jive with these motivations. Darin's does how ever. He was upset at the right time, he made "heroic gestures of rescue" just not to the right child. He acts grief stricken at the right time. Why would you continue to try and save an obviously dead child when the one still living needed your help too. He did gain public sympathy and even does to this day. IMO this might also explain why he still defends her and even went so far as to live with Mama Darlie he had to keep the pro-Darlie camp close enough to himself to throw off suspicion of him being involved. Also if any info came to light that he knew might make him look bad he would be clued in. The person he discussed his robbery plan with before the murders was Mama Darlie's husband. To me everything he has done since the murders now screams I did it. The tatoos, being apart from Drake when one would think a strong attachment would make him cling to him even more-so in the time right after custody was taken from Darlie. It may be a woman thing too but it seems to me regardless of your sex that a person would cling to the survivor -Drake and have a desperate need to be around them, protect them, use them as a comfort tool not send them off to Lubbock to live with grandma while you stay behind to cover your own a@@. Which need is greater here cling to the only child left or cover your own butt.

In cultures that ignore or condone child murders like the ancient Chinese daughter is drowned cause she is 1st born I do believe it was the responsibility of the father not the mother to do the deed. Many years of this practice proved it was much harder to break the bond of parentage between mother and child than father and child. The practice went on for hundreds of years and I think over time it was made the duty of the father for a reason. Some really truly mentally unstable mothers have killed their children but they seem easier to diagnose as mentally ill or really deranged and depraved a lot of evidence to support this is on this very site, Andrea Yates, Susan Smith etc. Darlie would have to be an absolute cunning genius to not be diagnosed with some kind of disorder IMO if guilty.I did know her and genius is not a word I would have used to describe her.

[DebC]

You also forgot to mention exactly how Darlie got her injuries.

Perhaps you could start another thread to post your lengthy theory of how Darin Did It. This thread is about Darlie's bruises and other injuries

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

Correct me if I'm wrong. In order for a human being to take the life of another in a premeditated way a displacement of attachment must occur first. This is not true in cases of manslaughter. Even if a husband catching his wife in bed with another man what is known as a passion killing, the wife is no longer viewed as a wife but as an OBJECT. An object that has betrayed you. Stranger on stranger killings too fit this displacement process too the displacement is viewed by the killer towards all of society or society in general.
Who, between Darlie and Darin shows evidence of displacement, frankly both of them do.
Remember what I said about all actions we make as humans are to fulfill some need. t
The two motivating factors people have are the need to feel valued or important or they are sexual in nature.
Who had a greater need that could not have been satisfied with the boys being alive?
Once again both of them.
Since Darin has admitted to in sworn statements that he had planned on having the house burglarized (most likely planned to occur while they were in Pennsylvania) he has revealed an important clue here IMO.
Since both have admitted to having fought that night finally it is obvious they conspired together to at least lie.
What need is fulfilled by this lie for Darlie is the need to present to the public the perfect family image in her mind perfect families don't fight.
What need does lying about fighting fulfill for Darin? Bingo it makes him look less guilty.
If Darlie did it out of a cunning need for attention and a need to hurt Darin fighting with him only helps her in the long run as it pulls suspician away from her and on to him. After all her need to kill the boys would be because she believes they are responsible for her unhappiness and it would hurt Darin. I see a displacement of her parental role enough to use the boys as pawns but she would need them alive to accomplish this goal. Why kill them now when your needs for extra attention are about to be met by the trip to Pennsylvania where they (the boys) would and she would have attention and love lavished on her. I think she knew about the burglary plan and somehow didn't want to cooperate but couldn't convince Darin to give up the idea. Could that be what they fought about that night and why they couldn't reveal to the police that they had fought. Is this why Darlie's story changes so many times she is still trying to hide not her guilt but the fight itself and her possible involvement in what she knows she is guilty of doing- being an accessory to an insurance scam.
The time of who revealed what first plays an important role here.
Who first admitted to the fight Darlie or Darin as each one claims they are the one who asked for the separation. If Darlie broke down first Darin's only choice would have been to say he asked for the separation and also admit to his involvement in an insurance scam.The fact that he finally revealed it makes me think he is more cunning. Darlie didn't reveal the scam, only the fight, he did. He also had 1 living witness besides Darlie- Mr. Kee. Yall may not know this but the Kees had some marital problems while Darin was living with them. Could Darin have helped bring about enough conflict between them still trying to cover his butt and alienate Mr. Kee, - the old infiltrate, divide , and conquer. Paying back any monies he gained from it too to avoid the insurance company from pursuing it further. Darin's admissions and Darlie's admissions are what still bothers me.Am I so off base to think this way meaning am I just another crazy Darlie supporter?
I respect the opinions of others here so don't be afraid to tell me to to hades if you think I'm wrong.

[weasel]

One of the boys had stab wounds on his buttocks. If he was laying on his back kicking and fighting, that just may well have caused the bruises on Darlie.

[DebC]

One of the boys had stab wounds on his buttocks. If he was laying on his back kicking and fighting, that just may well have caused the bruises on Darlie.

I always thought that the injury under her chin was made by one of the boys.

[Mary456]

I can think of several reasons.
Just like everyone and I mean everyone they all lied.

Ok, gotcha. They all lied.

You're so smart it scares me.

[sharkeyes]

I did know her and genius is not a word I would have used to describe her.

If I may be a bit nosey....how well did you know her, and, how would you describe her?

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

If I may be a bit nosey....how well did you know her, and, how would you describe her?


It is on one of the threads here.
It is because I did know her from early childhood that I would say she is normal and so is her mother.
I am not (normal that is). I hunt, I fish, camp and can survive just about any wilderness situation.
I have always been a funny (ha ha) kinda of nut case.

I have been married almost 30 years (Sept. of this year to the same man ) I have raised 3 children. Daughter- married and trying to have children (she has fertility issues). I adore my son in law.

Oldest son married and graduating in May with a 4 year degree he took 6 years to complete.I adore my daughter in law.
Youngest child child joined Army at age 17 (Reserves Mr R.and myself signed for him to join, ) he has been to Afghanistan and back and has now been honorably discharged having completed his 6 year contract.
He is unmarried and has been a TDCJ employee since age 18.
My kids are OK considering, with a few exceptions................................

If you see a short blonde driver who cannot drive GET OUT OF HER WAY if it my daughter she will most likely have a wreck- she has totaled 5 cars before the age of 21. Be concerned for your own safety.

If you are into gaming of any kind, Dungeons and Dragons, Warhammer, Halo, Mythos, etc you have probably met or know my oldest son, he has a biting sense of humor. He actually had all his groomsmen pose as Ninja warriors using black T-shirts tied a certain way and using real swords in his wedding photos, They rescue his bride in the photos during a mock sword fight, we drew the line at fake blood.

I am very cautious of people who know my youngest son, you either played football, were in the Army, or hopefully not an escapee from the unit for the Crimnally Insane.

As you can see I have perfectly demonstrated my "mental disorder" It cannot be cured I am a Smart A$$, which IMO is better than being a "Dumb Bu##.

No one can claim to know someone so well that the idea they might be guilty of a crime like this is absurd.
I USED to think so but I now no longer do.

I saw nothing in Darlie's mental makeup that would lead me to believe she could do this. I'd like to point out that prison psychologist who regularly work with disturbed minds have not diagnosed her with any mental disorders.

The fact that Darin and Darlie both conspired to lie about fighting that night I find very upsetting and it shattered my total trust of BOTH OF THEM.
The fact that Darin had pulled an insurance scam PROVES he has engaged in illegal and shady dealings.
I didn't know Darin as well as I knew as I knew Darlie. He seems to be a very nice man but so have quite a few killers like Ted Bundy or several of the 100's of women serial killers thru out time.
Ted relied upon his charms and even fooled true crime writer Ann Rule when she worked with him.
Darlie is not a cunning genius and while she is not the brightest person I have known she is far from being the dumbest I have known or met.
No one is without fault and many of Darlie's faults were blown way out of proportion because this case did not fit anything like it before or since.
I try to NOT use my past experiences with her as judgement anymore (with exception to motives).

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

No. Darlie had lost some blood; they sure wouldn't want to thin it!


Unless clotting is a factor they are trying to avoid as blood and blood products (plasma) can be given to replace blood loss.

[Jeana (DP)]

I've been looking for links of self-inflicted bruises so that we can see what others have done to themselves in the past. In the case I'm about to share with you, the woman claims to have been abducted by "aliens" from another planet, which I think is bogus; however, the bruises on her body were real and self-inflicted. Here's the link:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/aic/pev1.htm


If anyone else has more time and would like to conduct their own research and PLEASE share your results with us!!!

[sharkeyes]

I've been looking for links of self-inflicted bruises so that we can see what others have done to themselves in the past. In the case I'm about to share with you, the woman claims to have been abducted by "aliens" from another planet, which I think is bogus; however, the bruises on her body were real and self-inflicted. Here's the link:

http://www.virtuallystrange.net/aic/pev1.htm


If anyone else has more time and would like to conduct their own research and PLEASE share your results with us!!!

Those are some nasty bruises - they had to hurt, and I agree they are self inflicted - or assisted/self inflicted.

[GIRattlesnakeJane]

Could those scoop marks in fact be chicken pox scars?

[eeyorelrn]

Sorry I've taken so long to post update pictures - probs at work.
The pics are to demonstrate the length of bruising up my arm.
Now take a look at Darlie's bruising on her left arm.
http://www.fordarlieroutier.org/Evidence/index.html
Defence Exhibit 84, State Exhibit 52-M and 52-N.
How do you thing she got a bruise of that LENGTH on the inside of her arm? Not from a fist, that's for sure. She either slammed a door or a drawer on her arm.
She always was her own worst enemy. Here she obviously went with her mantra "bigger is better". That's what I think anyway.

When were bruises photographed? Asking because the color of these bruises appear to make the bruises look at a minimum 7 to 10 days old.


http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C458613.html
Bruises can last from days to months and usually occur in several stages. A bruise generally starts out as a pinkish-red area or as tiny red dots or blotches on the skin. The bruise may be very small and may blend in with the texture of the skin, or it may be large, swollen, and painful. Within days to a week or so, the bruise becomes more purple. As it heals, it becomes brownish-yellow. Generally, bruises heal and disappear within 2 to 3 weeks.


This link is a pic of a bruise about 2 weeks old:
http://www.cheezy.net/blog/archives/2007_02.php

A comparison pic of a bruise 2 weeks old and one that is new:
http://www.themikkelsens.net/sarah/pictures/070324-Bruise.jpg

I guess what I am saying is... with my experience of deaing with multiple types of bruises, contusions, hematomas, etc., 2 things glare out at me... The bruises appear to be old, and they do not appear to fit her story. As a nurse, we are taught that if the injuries do not fit the story, that we should question the validity of the story. This is why I question the validity of Darlie's story(s).:twocents:

[Tuffy]

When were bruises photographed? Asking because the color of these bruises appear to make the bruises look at a minimum 7 to 10 days old.


http://www.diagnose-me.com/cond/C458613.html
Bruises can last from days to months and usually occur in several stages. A bruise generally starts out as a pinkish-red area or as tiny red dots or blotches on the skin. The bruise may be very small and may blend in with the texture of the skin, or it may be large, swollen, and painful. Within days to a week or so, the bruise becomes more purple. As it heals, it becomes brownish-yellow. Generally, bruises heal and disappear within 2 to 3 weeks.


This link is a pic of a bruise about 2 weeks old:
http://www.cheezy.net/blog/archives/2007_02.php

A comparison pic of a bruise 2 weeks old and one that is new:
http://www.themikkelsens.net/sarah/pictures/070324-Bruise.jpg

I guess what I am saying is... with my experience of deaing with multiple types of bruises, contusions, hematomas, etc., 2 things glare out at me... The bruises appear to be old, and they do not appear to fit her story. As a nurse, we are taught that if the injuries do not fit the story, that we should question the validity of the story. This is why I question the validity of Darlie's story(s).:twocents:

The bruises on the inside of her arm near the elbow look a bit old. I am more bothered by the fact that they don't appear to be bruises from a blow.

What do you think of the long bruise on the underside of her arm?

[Heart]

This proves nothing.